001Good morning. Today is Friday, April 24th. This is a meet a special meeting of the policy committee. Um and we're discussing Board of Education policy 6950, policy regarding library collection development and maintenance, library displays and programs, and library material material review and reconsideration. Dr. Bert. I I will pass the torch across the table here to Marge and Jessica. Uh we we talked about this a while back. Um we went back and looked to ensure that the policy and the regulations um deeply be in alignment with the state legislation. And we believe they are. Um it's a mandated policy that we're obliged, so our team did some good work and I I think they've got we meet the legal requirement with this policy. Right. And and I just did want to give a shout out to
002the team led by Tim Maguire who did the work on the regulations. They really were starting from scratch. They worked with some of our library media specialists, our administrators, with one of the library media specialists from the Darien Public Library and State Library Association to do the work of drafting the regulations. Questions, comments? Joanne. Um so just a few a few things. Um I don't have page numbers on here, but so when we start with the uh review committee, um is that all statutory? Like it has to be two parents and a board member? Yes. Um and then if the only standard about reconsideration is whether or not the the was followed like you someone can appeal, but the only standard is whether or not the process was followed? That's what's in the written in
003the statute. Okay. Yes. Oh. Am I the only person who Um the collection and development I have, let's see. Um is this the process for each individual book that comes in? Do they have to go through this whole um so every time there's a new book brought in by the library or do they have to go through this entire or they want to take a book out because one of the many reasons, do they have to have the entire committee meet and go through all of this or things left to library media specialist discretion? Ards, I don't know if you want to answer that. Right, I I don't believe that there's a committee that meets. I think each individual library media specialist who then would answer to the director of assistant superintendent for curriculum and
004development um would make those decisions. Okay, so it's still Okay. Um and then on the I don't know what page number it is, but it says under collecting maintenance towards the end of the last sheet, you have under those points um the fifth one down says availability of more age-appropriate or grade-level appropriate materials. I think you meant more recent if you're checking the other language. Because otherwise then there's like that. If it doesn't say more recent, but then we're I think we get into debate about what is more age-appropriate, whereas on otherwise it always says more recent age-appropriate or grade-level appropriate material. So recent is in the bullet immediately above that. >> Okay, so is they are they together? Because someone could read this as availability of more age appropriate. Yes, I think that was
005the intention that it would be It's a good question. What does it mean to be more age appropriate? I suppose if some something evolves that Right, are we I feel like that's leaving us open to interpretations of people saying, well, this isn't as age appropriate as this. Uh you know, as this book that here is a more age appropriate book. I feel like that's a huge judgment call. Then leaving us open to a lot more challenges than would otherwise. We do have the the resources that give recommended appropriateness for age bands um in the regulation. School Library Journal, Booklist, Kirkus, um Common Sense Media, um and they all all those applications help us in making those determinations. So when you search a book, it will give you a grade level in terms of readability and
006then a range for your content appropriateness based on Okay, so this is I I still feel like this is leaving us open. But There's also a process for assessing appropriateness, which is immediately under those resources that Dr. Byrne just listed. >> Right. And so um the idea would be that it wouldn't be as subjective as as you're suggesting because you have those objective professional sources and then you have a process to assess appropriateness spelled out. I'm more worried that someone's going to uh ask us to go through that process over and over again when we might not need to. And it just it really stood out to me because in all other places it says more recent age appropriate or grade level appropriate material. Um I can find the words of that earlier. So, I
007you know, so every other time it was it was it was based more on what's new rather than what's appropriate because what's appropriate to me had already been established by these other by the movie by these other um sources. Am I making any sense? Sorry. I understand what you're saying. Um, I I'm just looking to see what's relevant to this Whoops. Yeah, I can find it from you how I had it earlier. So, in the library collection development and maintenance section, it says more recent age-appropriate or grade-level appropriate material. I mean, can we can we put these two bullets together? Is it Is it okay if if we go back to Tim Maguire and uh and get some clarification about why he split the bullets and why the wording is different? It just doesn't mean
008we can't change it, but >> Right. I just want to know that he heard that it would be great if it was intentional. Yeah, just and that makes sense. I think that the notion of availability captures the notion of it's more recent because the idea is that more of age-appropriate material might not have been previously been available, and that might be a reason why material is now being replaced. But, I understand your point. We'll we'll look at that. Anything else, Jordan? Anyone else? Sure. Um, so I appreciate all the work you Marge did on this going back and taking another look. I I appreciate Tim's involvement. Um, I know we've spoken about this a little bit and you guys went back after that we had the first reading. Um, I think the overall problem with
009all of this is that it really rankles because we're the local board. This is an issue that has been of concern for a lot of parents locally for a number of years and we're being basically usurped or preempted, however you'd like to look at it, by Hartford who's making a determination what is best for our children and what is the best process we have to follow and we have no choice that we're being ordered by statute to do X, Y, and Z whether we think X, Y, and Z is the right thing entirely or not. This is really a bad example of Hartford usurping local control where this is something we as parents are very, very interested in and like to see their interests represented for their children. So, I think this is probably one
010of the most heinous examples I've seen in a long time come down from Hartford. I think it's somewhere in the second page it says that the Board of Education has made a determination library specialists are the experts to do what these activities. We made no such determination. We have no way of evaluating that. So, really, you know, we're being jammed and compelled to do this. We are losing local control and that's why this has been a struggle for us to get across the line. We have no choice. We're being told what we have to do from the state. So, to me that's the bottom line here and that's the overall urgent problem and I appreciate everything the administration has done, but our hands are tied and it's very disappointing. Yep. Thanks, Dave. I concur with
011everything you said. Um, my question is how sticky So, the way I'm going to phrase it is once a book or material is in the library collection, it seems very difficult to remove it under this uh new policy. So, I'm looking to reference the same page Joanna was referencing. It's page 19 at 12 at 19. The way it shows up on my screen. So, on the same page Joanna talking about collection maintenance is the sub head. And the board has heard many parents come forward and testify about the explicit nature of some materials in the collection, but according to these criteria, and or am I missing it, there's no way, based on the criteria laid out in the policy, to remove a a book for objectionable material that that we would find prima facie objectionable.
012I don't think you could find anything prima facie objectionable. I mean, there's, you know, yes, you wouldn't put something in the elementary that you might put in the high school, but I think when you get up to the higher levels, something that one parent might find objectionable, another parent might not. And I think it's a large range of people, you know, with different feelings on what that might be. So, I think if you're talking age levels, maybe we could agree on that, but to say that something is just objectionable on its face, um, especially at the higher levels, I think you'd find a lot more disagreement on that. I I would agree with that, but I I I I would press Joanna on some of the excerpts from the books that we've heard read out.
013Uh Right, but have you read the whole book? I mean, now we're going to get into a debate about books. It's it's you can it everything is contextual. And there are all sorts of different viewpoints and different stories that you know, if someone who has studied pedagogy and studied literature and studied student develop, you know, development of children and understands all this, you know, if you if a parent doesn't like one page, but expert has said this whole book is okay because of X, Y, and Z, that's why actually, I know you don't like Dave the fact that this came down from the state, but I think like this actually makes it a lot easier because it gives directions of how to get from A to B. It gives us um you know, a standard
014across the state. So, you know, one district isn't doing something completely different than another district. We get stuff from from the state all the time about different regulations, you know, curriculum we have to have. Um I mean, as Dr. Byrne would say, we get too many so many mandates from the state. It's you know, days worth of training every year just for the teachers. So, I'll leave it at that, but I would just start with the I don't think anything and on its face just be objectionable. >> like to say if you look at appendix B of the regulation, um it's request for reconsideration of library material. That is part of our procedure. So, you give your explanation of why and then we go through the process that's defined in the uh policy and the
015regulation. So, and and looking at the resources to help us in that process, um I know I was involved in the conversations in looking at what the different platforms were to be sure that they gave us a wide range of information and and good information. Um but there is a process in place if there's a concern and we will follow that. Yeah, and I just I think joining a couple thoughts in response to that, you know, we're sort of looking subjectively or objectively. Um objectively the thought has been from a number of parents in conversations we've had that there should be a tie back to the educational purpose and to what's being taught course wise. Whether something subjectively objectionable or not, that's definitely more difficult. But if we don't have an educational purpose we can
016identify, why do we have material? Um that conversation goes away with this, which is difficult. The other question is just generally and this is big and we're never going to solve this right here today in policy. But if you certainly look even at the federal level and Chevron deference and this has been going on for administrative state and who makes decisions and deferral to experts. There's not a lot of comfort with deferral to experts by all people and just because you have someone who has a certain training or we think they should have some expertise they get to make the rules. There's a lot of people in this town that don't agree with that and so part of the reason you have a local board of education and we have us coming to all these
017meetings is to represent the interest of those people who vote for us which may not be the same as Hartford. And the 169 towns that exist in Connecticut would maybe like a lot of discretion to be able to do their own things they can't have because Hartford's pushing it. So if you look at the whole structure and why we even come to these meetings it's being taken away from us it's being taken away for our parents by but The reason we have this meeting is because we're required by the state to have policies. Then why have a board? So let the state run it. You know that's an easy retort. I think it's reason and an interest by the parents in town to have this board represent their interest. But parents aren't um objective. Parents
018are emotional. You know what I think is right for my kid my you might not think is right for your kid. But why should what you think you know determine what my kid can and can't do. So with the as a society or as a town we decided that the board of education will makes will hire people to make these decisions and yes the state has given us a very strict you know there's some things in here that I wish that we could change um way of doing things. But um overall I think this is process gives everyone an opportunity to object to anything they want. If you look at the sheet the like uh Dr. Berman was just saying it's very open. You just write whatever you want about whatever you think is wrong
019or whatever you object to. So I I I I Yeah I and I hear you and there may be a valid point in that objective individual parents can't be objective. Um there's an argument there that that's why we have a democratic process and we elect this board and we go through deliberations, so we show up and we do this work is to sort of get a community consensus versus individual objective opinions to aggregate that. Um somebody had a comment that they'd rather be ruled by the first 30 names in the Boston phone book versus uh experts. Uh I think that is not a terrible intuition. We have everybody come together, vote, express their views, and go through this process so we do get the objective community overall values expressed in actions taken on behalf of
020our children. And I you know, personally would reject the idea that there's an expert who can figure out how to raise my kids better than I can. Um but, you know, it's a different >> saying there's an expert in the district that wants to raise your kid more than you? >> Well, no, I'm supposed to defer I'm supposed I'm supposed to I'm supposed to defer to experts to make decisions as to what's best for my kids. That's a tough one. I'm not saying I've got every decision perfect, but I don't know. I I don't think there's some magical expertise certification that gives such ability. I want to go back to something you said earlier about every book needing to tie directly to curriculum. Um it was my understanding and sort of what it says here
021that a library is not necessarily a direct line to every piece of curriculum, but more to um help students learn and grow independently in many cases. So, if we tied every single book in the library back to curriculum, I think that would eliminate a lot of the library. Yeah, and I think that's a question that's been raised. I don't think it's anything that this board's taken up or gotten to a resolution to. And unfortunately, that's you know, that discussion and that community involvement and really being able to answer that question as a board to what we think's best within Darien has been foreclosed by this statute. Well, I respectfully disagree. I I I was just saying I I I hear what you're saying, China, and and I I do respect it. Um my question is
022the excerpts that I've read personally, yes, I have not read the whole book, and I can from those excerpts, I don't think I would be interested at all. Um Wait, but you know it's not about your You absolutely absolutely But given the the outrageous nature of the quotes taken, I seriously question if anybody looked at that book in its entirety and said, "This really needs to be in our public school library available to students because it advances X, Y, and Z of what we're trying to develop in the vision of the graduate or support our curriculum." I So, I I think the breakdown is I don't think that happened. And and my question and and I get Dr. Burns' response, and I appreciate it. There is a challenge, but then my follow-up is, are we
023then limited on the challenge to the very narrow definition that the state has allowed us, lack of relevant support, physical condition, a duplicate copy? Um And and then I think we're back to to Dave's point, which is we've been stripped of uh what I consider our duty. I don't I mean, this is not necessarily policy-related, but books are windows and mirrors, right? You might pick up a book and see yourself reflected back at you, or you might pick up a book and learn about something you never learned before, you see through the window to the other side. So, maybe a book in here or a book you find objectionable isn't a mirror, and you don't want to look through that window, but it doesn't mean that there isn't a student out there that needs that
024book, and that multiple people have come together to decide that. I would also like to point out that in this in the review committee, which I actually don't like, um there are two parents on every committee board and every review committee whenever there's a challenge. So, that is represented there. And But, Bill, just to answer one of this is this does put a process in place for putting things into the library. So, if you look in section 7, the library collection development and maintenance, um, the library review procedures uh shall include reviewing material uh to inform selection and de-accessioning decisions. So, it is part of our process that it will be used in the acquisition of new materials for the library. That makes me feel a little bit better. The other thing I would point
025out is the town has an excellent public library as well, which is which is and should be always without restriction uh to any materials they deem appropriate. But, I think the school is a different animal. Other points on this? So, I have a basic question of just uh and I know I think we've covered this before, but I'm struggling with just what is what is the difference between a library and a classroom library? And how and how do we differentiate that? And is there a difference in this policy versus our current policy we have on classroom We don't have a policy on classroom libraries. We have been working on a procedure internally to look at, analyze, and ensure that there are appropriate materials in the classroom libraries because those are based on the particularly the
026reading program in the elementary school and what kids need. So, we talked about decodables yesterday in uh uh uh finance committee meeting. And And we talked about a lot of different kinds of books that we use. So, kids uh in how they learn how to read need access to lots of different kinds of books. What we haven't had, which we are almost done with, is a process that our classroom teachers will be using. And if not a policy, it's a district practice that we will be using report throughout the year on this to ensure that the books in the classroom library are appropriate for Like Like you don't need fifth grade books in a second grade classroom. So, we've um identified a an application that's going to help us literally go book by book, check
027them. We have worked on a procedure for that for the classroom teachers. And worked with the principals to ensure that in advance of the coming school year that teachers will have the time. And it's it's particularly like fourth and fifth grade, where you get the more challenging chapter books, will have the opportunity to review and check those books and make sure the libraries are appropriate. So, that's something we've been working on at the district level that isn't part of this. This is specific to school libraries. Okay, but let's say Let's say you have a you know, one of the books Bill is referencing and it's found in a classroom library. Does this policy It It would That would fall under the objectional materials because it's part of the instructional materials. So, we would go through
028that process. And address that appropriate. Okay. Other questions, comments? Okay. Um I guess we need a us Do we want to move this forward to the board for discussion at the board level? >> just like some clarification from Tim on those two bullet points and why he separated them. Yeah, if that's all right. Yeah. I think my my other question with this Sorry, I do still another thought. Is And this is my ignorance of So, this this the Hartford declarative law moving forward, how how long does the Board of Education have to make their policy to conform to that? Well, we're supposed to have this policy July 1, I believe it was or it was last summer. Um how long? Uh Hartford makes changes all the time and it takes boards varying amounts of time
029to catch up. Okay. Right. But So, there's no nothing says that by Well, the legislation often >> to have this done. >> No, the legislation will say when it's supposed to be done and I think the expectation is that within a reasonable amount of time and and certainly I know from talking with other districts everybody else is in the same boat and moving this policy forward because it came from, you know, very detailed legislation that came late and it's taken a while. So, I don't think we're going to uh be sanctioned in any way by anyone um as long as there's we can show and I I am 100% confident and comfortable that we can show we've made a good faith effort to get this over the finish line and comply with the law. >>
030Okay. And that's what I have to certify at the end of the year that we are and to me this is compliance with the law whether or not it's actually done yet which we're I believe we're close to to being compliant in a reasonable way that will meet the needs of our community. Fair. Okay. Given the other issues that people are concerned about, I think we can we can work this through and and ensure that our libraries are good resources for our children and our our educators. So, to your point, do you want to have this move the Mr. Maguire to review with Marge on those two points and see bring it forward on Tuesday or do you want to wait until our next policy meeting? No, we could do that way. We can get
031that clarification. We can do that. Okay, other points? I'm in no rush to unless the state has spelled it out with a hard deadline and I've seen other issues in other areas where the state will say this must happen and then gets no deadline. Well, the the legislation does say that we're supposed to have this in place by so But it doesn't give a deadline. No, it is. There is a deadline. Isn't the problem that if somebody wants to challenge a book and we don't have a process in place, we have to scramble to do it, right? Yeah, we could just say thanks, we're not interested in your challenge right now. Really, that's and then this would dictate a policy. Wait, didn't we have a policy that we put in when Allen was here for
032book challenges? So we do have a process for for curriculum materials not specific to the library collection, but okay. Someone has, yeah. Understood. Yeah, I'd be curious to know the implementation date, required implementation date before we move forward. Yeah, I believe it was effective immediately, but I can confirm that. So the challenge is if somebody were to bring a challenge between when you adopted this and you know, before you've adopted this you'd have to follow these procedures. So you'd have to get it on the books before you address the challenge. Okay. And going back to our so going back to the classroom curriculum policy, is this is this in any way in contradiction, collaboration, whatever words with that policy and how do we how do we how do parents define what which is curriculum, which
033is school library and how do we Well, when when a parent is concerned and and they speak to their administrator. We know the path to recommend they follow. So, they run a chain of will go through the chain of They go through the chain of command and we'll steer them and we'll steer them in the correct Okay, approach. So, it's I actually have the statute in front of me. It was effective June 30th, 2025. That was the effective date. The statute was the implementation requirement date? Same. Same. But again, as Dr. Burns said, I think there are very few if any districts that have this in place or have had it in place for long cuz it takes time. As is true with any legislation that has an immediate effective date. Well, also it looks
034like we'll we'll be writing a cell phone policy soon that will be effective the day after it's, you know, I mean that that happens. A belt-to-belt cell phone ban rather. So, do you guys want to wait until the next policy meeting to have this reviewed? I would defer to the chair. I I I my recommendation would be to bring bring the the clarification on Tuesday and move forward. I I would agree I think we have to eventually We're going to have with the new legislative session, we're going to have a load of policies that we're going to need to work on them. You know, we will get the clarification understanding where everyone's positions are and bring that forward. All right. So, a sense of meeting are we okay to bring this forward down Tuesday? Do
035we have a choice? I I don't believe so. So. Okay, we'll bring this forward on Tuesday. Um any public comment? Good morning. To participate in public comment, please wait to be recognized. Once recognized, please state your name and town of residency for the record and note that you have up to 3 minutes to comment. We have no public comment at this time. I will entertain a motion to adjourn. Bill, do I have a second?