BASS LAKE JOINT UNION ELEMENTARY SCHOOL DISTRICT BOARD MEETING - 02/02/2026

001Okay. Okay. So, um we've come out of close session and uh the governing board voted unanimously to approve a written settlement agreement to resolve pending litigation with the office of administrative hearings. The resolution includes the compensatory education fund and attorney's fees in exchange for full waiverss of past claims. Um, so we're going to reconvene now in open session. I call this meeting to order at 6:31. Please stand for the pledge. >> Ready? I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right. So, um, number five, item five, hearing a person's wishing to address the board. I do not have any slips for tonight. So, we're going to move on to number six. Uh, I

002make a motion to take action on budget reductions. >> Second. >> Um, okay. And then now we can open up the discussions. Um, who would like Ronnie? Do you want to start with the questions that you have? Um, I have them on my email. So, I'm going to have to look at my book. Oh, do you want me while she's looking that up? um the quick summary obviously it's continue discussion and take action regarding budget reductions and then um as you see on the supporting documents there are different options for um different potential budget reductions. Um of course you know there can be different sort of ways to configure some of these things. The the options would have gone on and on and on. So, um we can talk about uh you know the options

003as they stand whole or if you want to like pull things out and have conversations about that and and um talk about things separate outside of outside of the option and pull things out that's that's okay also. It's all part of this discussion tonight. >> Okay. Do >> you want me just read all my questions I sent to you or do you want me to just read one at a time? But >> one at a time would be really cool. >> Okay. >> Yeah. All of them at once might be a lot. >> It's a lot. Okay. So, my first question was, what is the average psychologist case load this year? >> Okay. So, the board um just like public can send in questions ahead of time. Um so, these came in ahead of time.

004so that we could have time to prepare and have everything that we could have to answer them. Um, so that's what I'm kind of looking through here. Okay. So, you wanted to know the case load for the psychologists, >> correct? >> Okay. So, we have um four or three and a half psychologists. And the reason I say that is we have um three, you know, fully credentialed school psychologists and then we have an intern. Um the intern of course is learning and has to kind of hit certain things within their learning per their um requirements and so of course their case load is not going to be as rigorous as as the other three. Right? So between those psychologists this year um they've completed 39 psychoeducational assessments. Um each of those assessments take about 12

005to 20 hours to complete. Um there's been 10 functional behavior assessments. Those take about 8 to 12 hours to complete. Um there's been 16 behavior intervention plans written which are known as BIPS. And then um they have a total of 51 students districtwide receiving one-to-one counseling and about 10 receiving receiving group counseling. Um I think that part of your question also Rhonda was um let me see if I can find it here. You asked um how that compares to ratios. Right. So currently um we're operate with our 22% of special education percentage we're we're a very high concentrated special education district right like we've had lots of conversations about that um so with that um you know comes a lot of things. Um we are running what is called like a comprehensive service model right

006um in lots of districts school psychologists are what sometimes we hear are testing machines right they're really only doing the psychoed testing and maybe some of the FBAs and other things um our psychologists are doing much more than that I have a comprehensive list of the things that they do which we probably will get to tonight um so our current ratio if you look at just a ratio would be one psychologist to every 222 students. Um the National Association for School Psychologists recommends 1 to 500. However, for a comprehensive model like we're using um we're at like a workable load, right? So, if we were to do closer to the 1 to 500, um, then we would probably have things that they're currently doing in the comprehensive model that we would have to push on

007to to other practitioners. So, does that answer your question? >> Um, yeah, I think so. Okay. >> Um, uh, well, I can go back to this other one. Um, okay. Um, so then I guess the next topic was I just said given our current budget shortfall, I was wondering about the restructuring of the transportation leadership that was done last year and how those responsibilities are now divided between the two positions and are there specific challenges or gaps that existed prior that are resolved now or is that a possibility um that we could, you know, look at that job title as well. >> Yeah. So, I think you're talking about um previously we had oneot, maintenance, operation and transportation director, >> correct? >> And then without retirement, we split the position and now have a maintenance

008and operations director and a transportation director. >> Right. >> Okay. So, um, our maintenance and operations director oversees grounds, custodial needs, campus maintenance, and they also are like a working manager. So, they'll go and float around those sites and help, you know, with things that are are needed as well as managing. Um, also that person has a bus driver's license, so they can also um be a backup for for drivers who are out sick or doing a training or, you know, going to professional development or whatever. They're out for the day. And then we have the transportation manager who focuses exclusively on fleet management and student transit. Um, this person is a C certified trainer. So, this person can train and train any of our employees that are wanting to become bus drivers, and they're

009also able to keep our current bus drivers up on all of their certifications. So, that is really invaluable because if that isn't in house, then we have to pay for that, contract that out. Um, Robert also had that. Um, so we thought splitting it, that's how it split. And then it the person that we ended up hiring al for transportation also has that. So that's an asset. Um we had some challenges in the previous model. It seemed like the director was pretty much mostly consumed with the transportation side of things and it seemed as though the facilities and maintenance side of things were kind of not getting to. Um, so when that person retired, um, I remember sitting down, I wasn't the superintendent at the time, but previous superintendent and and Tara and and Robert,

010we sat down and we kind of looked at it, um, and and it when we looked at all of that, it it seemed to make sense that since a lot of things weren't getting done, this splitting of the duties of these management duties um would be helpful for the district. Um so when we did that we also um had a retirement of a floating umot site lead and so we didn't backfill that and so that was a cost savings that helped us um with this split um to do what we thought would be more effective and efficient for the district. Um it's the improvements have we've seen less overtime costs um because these folks are able to step in and help with some of these things and then u more preventative maintenance is occurring and

011then the restructure resulted in about $30,000 in savings. Um, and the amount that comes out of the general fund to to pay for these positions, um, is about $150,500. And then there's also restricted maintenance maintenance funds that pay for for these positions, which is about $80,000. Um, so I don't know if there's anything else on this ter that you think would be important for for this part or if you guys have any other >> No, I just know it was challenging to balance because there were always drivers out. So, Robert was always having to hop on the routes and it wasn't his choice that facilities or maintenance had to go on the back burner. You know, he was working tirelessly all the time, but it was just like couldn't really catch up. And a lot

012of when when we looked at other districts, they have it split out or they would have like a maintenance like director and then like a transportation manager. And so usually there isn't just the the one person that does all of that. So um and then having that savings because the two uh maintenance manager and the transportation manager, their salary schedules are less than the director was and then not backfilling the site lead manager. So that um was where we when we looked over a few years it would it provided savings. >> Okay. Um what was it gonna say and it is helpful that both of those managers are licensed to drive right? So we have extra bus drivers in the event that we need that. >> That's good. I just wanted to revisit the cost

013analysis effectiveness and if like so >> yeah it's been a minute since we talked about all that. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, uh, oh, back to the, um, I guess, um, well, I'll let other people ask questions. I have to think about this one. Um, we'll take one and then you can Okay, go ahead. Take one. Okay. So, one of the I also asked about the so that's been covered. Um, one of my questions was what is the effect of losing the educational specialist position and what what does that position entail and who would do the work if we were to not have that position anymore? >> The educational program specialist. >> Yes, please. >> Yeah. So, um, some notes I have here for that is I just wanted to point out that that position is

014not an administrator. Um I think sometimes with these extra positions that we have in the district, sometimes it's seen as um you know management or you know topheavy administrator type things. And so this position is not. Um the position um mostly focuses on being a 504 case manager. Um currently we have 33 504s and we will likely hit about 36 by the end of the school year. The recommended best practice um case load for a 504 coordinator who's like just doing 504s is 40 to 50. So we're almost there. And the person doesn't just do that. They also are heavily involved in the PSST which is student study team and the student study team process for students that are moving through the multi-tered system of support. They case manage the MTSS students. um they assist

015with implementing new programs districtwide. For example, our behavior program that the SBMS and all of the behavior that we're focusing on districtwide curriculum with existing curriculum and new curriculum adoptions, technology apps, and lots of teacher support and principal support. Um if this position were to be I think you asked what would happen if it went away. If this um position were to be reduced, these responsibilities would fall on principles and or school psychologists. Um this person is also helping or this position is also preparing to work preparing the work to launch which is part of sort of the vision of our academic achievement and like where we want to go as a district with professional learning communities. um and also working um with principles and teachers on our restorative practices and strategies to help reduce

016our suspension rates which were in differentiated assistance for okay so within these 504s does that mean that this position goes to SST meetings or goes to IEP meetings or 504 meetings or this person just strictly writes They go to the meetings. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Not the APS, but the the 504s and the SSTs. Yeah. The SSTs. >> May I comment on them? >> Yes. >> So, my comments on the U educational support specialist. I'm looking at my notes on the LCAP and the LCF for last year. Excuse my voice. I'm getting a little cold. Um there the feedback by the educational partners and these are the exact wordings. The classroom teachers regularly voiced concerns about the following based on students academic performance. And so they listed seven items. I'll go ahead and read them

017if that's all right. Uh lack of achievement in math. Second is students ELA and reading. Third, students writing skills. Now the next four, five, and six had to do with behavioral issues. Four is behavioral and discipline. Five is professional development on deescalating students. And six was consistent discipline policy. And while I'm at it, number seven is chronic absenteeism and disengagement. So last year when you were doing the talk to towns in and I went to one of them and some of the teachers came in and voiced their huge concerns, very crazy of what was going on in their class. And so it was at that point I decided to volunteer in the class. So I think that's a crucial position. This might be a good spot to pivot a little bit because I think there's

018probably going to be questions about this too. It's important to understand that the educational program specialist position is fairly new position, right? Like we've had it for gosh three or four years. I can't remember. All the years kind of blend together. Um, previously um that position was a little looked a little bit more like um had components of this but also had things in it that um our virtual case manager is taking care of now. The the individual who was the educational program specialist previously had a special education credential and was able to do some of those things. And that was our need or our a heavy need at the time because we were starting to launch our MTSS process and start looking at looking at that. And then things shifted like with Diane said

019and there was a lot of I was getting a lot of emails and a lot of things at talks with Townsen and I even was having meetings with the the unions about behavior, right? And we all know that that was something that needed to be focused on. So, as we shifted uh you know, as we're as we're looking at our needs and kind of pivoting and and taking care of our students needs as they come at us, the educational program specialist now is doing a little is heavier on that and working on that. And some of the things that um the our virtual case manager is doing um were some things that were able to be taken care of in that position previously because of credentiing things and because that was a little bit more

020of the need then and now we're kind of shifted to more of the focus on the behavior and the restorative practices and the teacher support in the classrooms and and so forth. So, I think that's an important thing to know that that position is evolving and kind of shifting as we're seeing the needs of our students. Yeah. >> Question. >> Oh, I I don't have any questions at this time. I think I'm just kind of looking at crudging numbers months but all of this is on the other pages. Um I I guess maybe um perspective that I'm taking Oh, a perspective that I'm taking is um looking at um slide 19 from our um previous meeting um that we had where it was talked about or where you had a graph of density and >>

021positions and I was thinking you know I I listened to our last meeting about the direction and how you were going to come across, you know, come up with these options or how we were going to try and navigate um cuts. And so I was thinking like the looking at the certificated support that was on that um slide and then I looked where certificated support was in our options and noting that it was up 377%. I was like, "Okay, well, I I anticipate that we're going to see some movement here on in that category." And so, um, in the other parts of the options, I just kind of added up the one-time funds, the supplies budget, the services, um, budget reduction. I added all of that up. I looked at certificated support. I looked at

022back filling, not backfilling, coming up with a total. I was thinking about the um goal that we set before you, the 800 to the 850,000. And um personally, I think that if we're looking at cuts, I don't think that we also look in the same year to build our reserve. I think that would be too severe of a cut. Um, when I look at what the essentials were as far as um, our one-time funds ending, that was 430,000 as well as our deficit spending, which was 242,000. I came up with 672. I looked at cutting one of the certificated support positions that was um I believe 140 as well as not backfilling one um ele one full-time teacher but hiring re but filling the PE position and I came up with since I was trying

023to get to 672 I got to 6 671 600. So I feel like I've done it. Just kidding. That's where I'm at. Okay. So you're suggesting we don't try to get to the 800. We cut it to 672,000. >> That's I'm just one. >> I said that last time. severe. I feel like we shouldn't worry about that right now. >> And I and I and then if this works, then we that can be our our next thing that we focus on. And if we have savings other places or we get onetime funds, we start that we're aware that this is an issue. I think that it needs to be on the forefront of our mind and we need to pay attention to it. I don't want to do that by eliminating a position. >> Okay.

024>> I agree with that. I like that. Okay. >> I think that's the first time we ever >> I know. >> Okay. So, if I'm hearing you correctly, you said certificated support. >> Yes, I'm looking for that. Which option is that under? Can you help me? >> 140,000 is under option four. Option four, >> psychologist. >> The third one down says one FTE certificated support. >> Okay. I want you to be a psychologist. >> Okay. my my only concern and um part of the reason why I was asking about you know the psychologist case load and um unfortunately this district in the past has had some issues and we've had some legal challenges due to measures beyond our control. I'm not sure, but I want to make sure that we are proactive and that our

025um that the team has, you know, that we have the team to do the work that we need to do and that special ed doesn't continue to be a huge problem because we don't address it correctly. I I don't know if that's if I could say that, but that's what I'm saying. >> So, that's my only concern. And that's why I was asking like what's the normal ratio like you know cuz we do have a high percentage like most school districts don't we're we're considered high and so we have to staff a little bit higher for that. Um so anyway I'm hoping that if we did eliminate that position would they still be able like if we did do one FTE certificated support it in here it basically says it would most likely be a

026psychologist position. Is that correct? >> Yeah. And probably the biggest, you know, we have it's it's kind of hard to say because you don't really know exactly what's going to happen, but based on what we do know, right? Um there will be some things that our psychologists do that help with um general education students that they probably will no longer be able to do. So that'll fall onto other people. Um, and you know, there might need to be some reduction in maybe some of the the counseling services that aren't written into IEPs if depending on how heavy their case load is with the assessments and the things that are on their plate as far as like things that are legally mandated and have timelines, right? So, like those things are going to have to some

027of the things that are going to get us into less legal trouble are going to have to fall off onto other things or maybe not happen. Um, and then, you know, we could look at possibly seeing if we can if there's if there's other money that comes in to see like what we could do to supplement that with like maybe a different type of hire. Um, but it it does, you know, we're cutting things right now, right? Especially if we don't cut the full 800, right? Then it might be a year or two depending on what the what the budget actually ends up looking like from federal and state funds on whether or not we can supplement positions to help offset the loss of the one psychologist going away, >> which is, you know, that's

028something that we can look at for sure. I mean, that's why it's on here, right? Um, so >> okay. >> Yeah. >> And do we I know we contracted I'm sorry we contracted prior to hiring our psychologist some didn't we do some virtual contracting before? >> We contracted out for help with some like assessments that needed to be done because we um were overloaded and we're coming up against deadlines. So we've we've done that in the past. So, I'm just saying like worst case scenario, we cut that position and we get into the point where we're having we could potentially contract like short term for health. Maybe >> we could it cost >> I know it's money, but I mean I'm just >> I mean we would have to do that, right? Because it's a

029we would be legally obligated to make sure that we get those assessments done, right? But it is a plan B that we have that we could I mean >> yeah because I I think that if from what I was looking at with the case load and the numbers um going down one but then we would still have an intern. >> We still have an intern. >> Um that is it depends. Okay. So I will let you know what the the interns have to be supervised. Okay. They have to be supervised by a staff member who is currently acting as a school psychologist and has been a school psychologist for at least three years. Pardon me. We of our current psychologists, we have one that meets that criteria. So depending on how things went, right? Um

030there's a lot of stuff that happens in the background with all of this, right? That's confidential. depending on how that all shakes out. Um, we would potentially also lose the intern if we didn't have somebody on staff that could supervise them, >> but they can't take their own case load or they they have a modified case loan. >> They can do >> interns can do everything that a site can, but like they're new and they're learning, right? So, we're not going to like dump a whole bunch of things on them, right? And they're they're, you know, they're learning and so the the supervising site helps them. And there's also like criteria, right? Like in their internship, they need to make sure that they're being exposed to psychoeducational assessments. They need to be sure that they're

031being exposed to taking data for a behavior intervention plan. They need to be exposed to counseling. They need to be exposed to, you know, the referral process, child find, all of these things, right? So, it's pretty specific on like what you kind of need to channel them into. Um, so they're a little less flexible and they're not as, you know, they're new, so kind of got to handle them with a little bit of care. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. But my original question was that we could potentially contract out if worse came to worse and we cut a position and then things changed and I mean, >> you know, to be proactive to prevent things from becoming an issue, we have possibilities. >> Yes. without actually having to hire another person full-time. >> Yeah. I

032mean, we could hope, you know, for some one-time revenue, like Michelle mentioned, or we do more medical billing, which brings in revenue. There's different ways to to generate that local revenue. >> That's another thing that's important to point out, too, right? Like when um psychologists can can bill for so like if a student on an IEP is a medical student, then um their services can be build and that takes time, right? Like that's paperwork. So you have to carve out time for our psychologists to be able to do that because that's revenue for the district, right? And when they are usually, right, like we all know this, when the to-do list, right, like if there's a crisis on campus or there's an IEP that's due or there's a whatever, that pushes some of those other

033things down lower on the to-do list and sometimes they don't get to it, right? And then we don't end up with as much revenue with the medical building, right? because they're stretched, right? So these are all sort of these like behind the scenes things that >> so we don't bank on that revenue because you know we don't plan on it but then when it does come in this year we use it for professional development. So it could be another area where if we needed budget for that and it was cut in other places um if they're billing and doing generating some revenue maybe we can send someone to a conference or something. So it's kind of like extra revenue but we can't really like plan on getting >> Yeah. I don't like to count on

034it, but it is something that um >> the last few years we've been >> we put a pressure on them to do because it it helps. >> They've been doing great. >> Yeah, they have been um bringing in quite a bit of revenue with that. So, yeah. >> Okay. So, I had a question um that I sent to you because we keep hearing behavior, behavior, behavior, and it seems like there's some counseling going on, but then I'm hearing it's not enough counseling. So, I had just a thought of, you know, could we trade a psychologist and an intern? And granted, this isn't going to save a ton of money, but just to try to deal with the behavior side of it, trade a psychologist and an intern for a counselor. That would just that would

035be district-wide. Obviously, it's not going to be in one site. >> Yeah. So yet yes the um there's things to consider with that. So certainly yes. Um there are different levels of credentials and certifications that counselors hold or don't hold that allow them to p do certain things, right? So if we hired a counselor that had the credentials to to help the counseling case load of students on IEPs, that's going to be a pretty close cost to a psychologist. Not quite as much, but close. If we hired a counselor to do more of our tier 2 counseling, which is our short-term counseling, um, we certainly could do that. Um, it would be a cost. It would be a little bit less, but they would they would not be doing anything that's written into an IEP.

036So, that's more like short-term 6 to 8 weeks type counseling. we would have to embed that into our MTSS process to make sure that we're tracking those kids because if they're not able to exit off of that sort of short-term situation, then, you know, we would need to see if that that needs to be looked into, you know, with an assessment and so forth. Um, so that could be done. They would be districtwide, right? They would only probably be at each site, you know, a day or two depending on. Um but it is something that we can look at to see if that is um part of a solution for some of for some of these things. Another model that we could look into that I um have talked to a principal of a school

037in Fresno where they have a model where they have a counselor that also has I'm going to forget the name of them, but I'm just going to call them counseling aids for now, right? and they are highly trained by the counselor and they're it's kind of like an aid in a classroom. The teacher gives them the material, the credential person and says do this, right? And so, um, that's a little bit of a lower cost, but they are supervised by this counselor and able to see kids on short-term more tier 2 level things and help with that. That is something that u we've talked about and we can look at. um certainly would be a cost but if we decided to go in that direction it it's something to explore. We just need to understand

038that depending on the credentials of the counselor um there might be some limitations to that position that um that aren't limitations with a psychologist. Okay. So to piggyback on that, could we trade the intern for the counseling aid or aids potentially and they work under the psychologist because the psychologist is a counselor? >> I would I'm just trying >> about how we can get more counseling services. Yeah, maybe I I I would need a little bit more time to look into that to see if that um >> would be the most effective way to go. >> Right. Whether it can happen or not is also we need to pay attention to if that would be effective and we thought that that would be a good idea. >> Um we also Yeah. >> So yeah. >>

039Okay. All right. Um and then another question I had had was is money for travel and conferences restricted or unrestricted? Unrestricted. Could reductions be made there and how could they help her situation? Okay. Professional development is covered by restricted title 2 money. We usually get about 50,000. Um this year the federal funds were cut by 30,000. Um all professional development uh oh sorry. So we also had our title one restricted funding cut by about a 100,000. So this is why we have the reductions in the restricted. Um so we already cut professional development allocations because the money coming in has been cut. Um and then I don't know if you want to speak to >> I unrestricted earlier where if we bring in more medical revenue um then we could use that for professional development.

040We have some small budgets under special education and under supplemental and concentration for like local workshops and things. Those are really great if there's something at the county where that you don't have to have all the travel arrangements and the costs that add up. Um, so we do have some small budgets in those other areas, but the bulk of it is entitled to which is in restricted funding and that just got cut by the feds. So we had to cut back this year. >> Yeah. So anything beyond that that we want to do would have to come out of the general fund. >> Yeah. Or if we got more revenue. >> Yeah. And um we might get a little more like our socioeconomic disadvantage percentage has gone up a little bit. So the funding source

041that comes in for that might increase a little bit um but not too much. And then um the the 5,000 is the budget code just as an FYI like for um for the PD services. >> Yeah. It's under services but that includes utilities, professional development, lots of things. But this year we did use some medical funding for some workshop for or conference with a psychologist as well as the lindamood and bell training we they've been doing for RSP um >> yeah instead of the medical building that they were doing that got the revenue we use that for >> and for knowledge save lives. So it's kind of like when some money comes in then we can plan an additional professional development >> but most of the time it's restricted. >> Yeah it's mostly restricted. >>

042Yeah. >> Okay. questions about things. Um, I just think that for me when I was looking at at everything I uh the non-negotiables for me with the scenarios were, um, I'm not willing to vote for anything where we're going to have two combination classes of 30. Um, I don't think that that's a good idea. and also just not willing to compromise the special education department to the point where we expose ourselves to the possibility. >> Could you speak up? >> Um, rewind. Where did you miss >> all of it? You missed all of it. >> You're doing that on purpose. >> I know. Okay. So, uh, I said that what's non-negotiable for me is that I'm not willing to have two combination classes of 30 and that I'm not willing to compromise the special education

043department to the point where we expose ourselves to the possibility of compliance issues and litigation because we've been there in the past. And at least now with the configurations that we have, we can control the cost and know what things are going to cost versus us having opening ourselves up to litigation and then we don't know what it's going to cost us. And if you look back on our warrants, when if you look back even just last month, the $92,500 that we paid, that's one of five payments that has to come out of our general fund. Um, and that doesn't even cover all the um the other costs that were associated with that just one piece of litigation for us. We can't afford it. It's and so it's unsustainable for us to have a special

044ed program that we are not in check with that we are not in compliance with because parents are getting very savvy. They know the laws and they sometimes look for cracks. And so if we are exposed in that way, they're coming for us. And they should because if we're not in compliance with their child, if we're not following 504 plans, if we're not on top of their IEPs, it's well within their rights. But we cannot expose ourselves to that. We just absolutely cannot afford it. And if we were funded with special ed because it costs us $1.7 million a year and we get $300,000, then we wouldn't have such an issue with it. But that's the reality. And so when we're looking at, you know, cutting special ed, I'm not necessarily opposed to it, but

045at the same time, we just have to absolutely make sure that that whatever we're doing within that department that that we can stay in compliance. It's incredibly important. I I would also like to say that like we also have to make sure and I 100% agree with you but I also as a parent and and I feel like it also can't come to the detriment of regular ed balance it and we have to make sure we're very careful um because I do feel like a lot of the focus is gone there and we do have to balance it but we also have been you know asking a lot of our teachers with regular ed and we can't also So, you know, continue to do that. Yeah, I agree. I said I'm not willing to have

046combination classes of 30 kids, which is, you know, a direct effect on teachers. So, um, so that would mean that we're not backfilling that retirement, which I'm not willing to not backfill. I think that needs to be backfilled. >> Oh, that's that option three. Um, okay. Can you remind me of which ones you decided would add up to your little um we're she's picking some from each option and we don't have to pick one option. These were just presented and we're discussing it. So, um a psychologist for 140. Um a teacher for 130, which um and then what did I say? 671. Oh, uh it took into account um some other information that we Oh, close session. >> Oh, okay. Um, and then the all of the supplies and the onetime fund bonus adjustment, which

047that totaled 325. And so it was basically was the psychologist and not bill not backfilling one um teacher. I think that if we're having behavior problems, I think it's super important for the kids to have the opportunity to get out their energy. and I'm going to support physical education and um if we can maintain that it gives uh regular classroom teachers a little bit of a break and it keeps the kids engaged and physically active and in my opinion better able to sit in the class and pay attention. Can I just piggyback because you mentioned something you said um I don't know what you were looking at. You don't have to say but you were you were referring to some close session things. So I think it's important that we understand that the board understands

048that sometimes there are things happening back here in the background >> that are confidential >> and could be helpful, right? Um with budget savings. And so I think that, you know, it would be appropriate for myself and Tara to make decisions on those things um outside of sort of what we're talking about here in the event that it makes sense and it's within the spirit of what I feel like the board is um directing, right? like if the board ends up saying like, "Okay, we're not going to have combo classes or we're not going to have classes over, you know, whatever 32 students and and those types of things as long as I feel like it fits within the spirit of that." >> Um because it's going to be hard to like call a meeting

049for every little thing, right? And we're up against some deadlines of notifications. So, >> I just kind of wanted to have a conversation about that a little bit, too. And then speaking about PE, if we go to two PE teachers versus three PE teachers, what does that look like for the program? >> Yeah, so that would look like um instead of having a PE teacher at each school site, we would have two PE teachers districtwide. And so we currently have 31 classrooms. And so those two PE teachers would service those 31 classrooms. they would, you know, have about 15 classrooms each. So, we would have to run scheduling um around that, which um will be fun. >> Will we do that with the two music teachers, >> right? Yeah. So, um we could I I

050I believe it could be done. I'm not sure that the amount of PE that every teacher across the district is currently getting for their students, you know, like the PE teachers pulling their student. I think probably it it will result in less PE time. Like the classroom teacher might need to supplement some PE minutes because there's the the 200 mandated minutes for every 10 school days. Um, but it certainly would give teachers um some time to send out their students um for PE and and have have some prep time within the instructional day and and those um students would be instructed by by a PE teacher. Um, obviously I didn't spend a whole bunch of time on scheduling that because, you know, we're only going to do that if if if that is the situation,

051but I looked at it to see if it was feasible and I believe that we could structure something >> and we could try it for >> Yeah, we could try it, see how it goes. >> So, is the music program I know the band program's different, but the music program is that K3, K4, K5? music is TK >> five I believe and then um it's an elective >> for six >> where they have choir or theater is it >> called TK we have music with Miss D is TK3 and then we have music for five with Mr. Oh, cuz it's like junior band or >> It's a junior band. >> Yeah. Yeah. And everyone's included in junior band or that's a choice? >> No, every everyone in fourth and fifth grade participates. >> Okay. >>

052And then middle school band is an elective. >> Okay. And about how many minutes do they get of that music program? >> It depends on the grade level. >> Is it every is it every day? A couple times. >> It's twice a week for everything but kindergarten, right? NK. Okay. Twice a week. >> So, I'm kind of looking at this as a parallel. >> Yeah. >> That PE that PE would be a couple times a week, >> not every day. >> Well, probably probably not twice a week if they have 15 classes that they need to see >> each PE specialist. >> I don't I I know. I'm sorry. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if it's worth it. If if they're going to get if if all it really does is

053continue to just really fall on the teacher and there's just >> I think they're going to get it at least once a week. I I feel like I can say that and they're getting their music. We're going to have to be creative in the junior high atmosphere with it because that's different, right? Because that's an elective, right? >> So, I think that we can get creative. Um but we're going to need to get creative with that. >> Okay. Yeah, >> I don't think once a week is adequate. Do you think they would need it every single day? >> Well, what I'm saying is that the classroom teachers will have to supplement the the other days of PE. So, they're supposed to get 200 minutes every two weeks, right? So, like if the PE teacher is

054doing 100 minutes every 10 days, then the the classroom teacher is going to have to take them out on other days to to meet those minutes. >> Yeah. But they need they need that break cuz she was mentioning >> Yeah. I think >> time. >> Yes. >> So it averages to 20 minutes a day basically like if we were to get if we spread it out by 10 days >> 20 minutes a day. >> It depends on the grade level. I will do more research. I did a bunch of research research and I what I've come up with I'll double check and I can send an email to CD but since we're a TK8 school district it's saying that even our junior high kids only need the 200 minutes since we're not a high school

055district but I will double check because obviously we want to be compliant on that because the older kids it's 400 minutes but I think I what in my research but I'll in before we like launch all this you know I will double check but I think it's the 200 and TK K and kindergarten do not have mandatory PE minutes, but we offer that to them for our teachers currently. Okay. >> But they're not like CDE mandated minutes. >> Okay. Well, maybe that's something we look at, but maybe TK and K are included in this so that we could service more of the kids that that where it is mandated. >> It's a big health concern. you know, health problems is a really big deal right now. >> I think it's important to point out, I'm

056just I'm just pointing this out because you keep saying it's important. It doesn't have to be done by a PE teacher. Okay? So, our neighboring districts, our closest neighbors in their in their K8 CL in their K8 schools, they do not have PE teachers. Their classroom teachers do it. >> It's part of I mean, >> that's how we did it. Whether whether people like that or don't like it and the argument of the prep time and all that, I'm just saying like it's part of multiple subject teacher credential to to take your kid. So I don't Diane, I don't want you to think that if we don't have a PE teacher, kids aren't going to get PE, >> right? I understand. >> Right. Like >> even some districts have one and they go to all

057the sites, >> right? Yeah, just 10 years ago when my daughter left Wasuma, teachers did not have a prep period and they did not have a PE teacher and we didn't have music and we didn't have band. Um, so and we also didn't have >> and you had your duty and >> we had yard duty and we had more things. So, you know, it it's challenging. We're trying. >> Yeah. Okay. So, do we have any other questions? I would like to address the uh teachers the BLTA um letter that we got. So, for expenses, what about the uh Chromebook reducing Chromebook applications, returning to more interactive learning with teachers? You want me to address this? So, we're already um going to be cutting some applications and we already have done that. We send surveys out

058every year. We did cut back quite a bit of programs,000 >> about $100,000 and computer services >> and that's under services. So, that's part of the reductions that we made on these options for that. >> Yeah. So, you >> What do you mean I went over it? >> The letter. The letter that the >> I read the letter, of course. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Of course. Okay. Anybody else have any other questions that they want to ask, comments that they want to make regarding these options. Okay, I'm hearing nothing. Let's um Are we ready to create a scenario? um where we take some of these, even if it's not all, you know, all of these in one of the options, but peace meal it out to where it seems like we could make some reductions. order.

059I think that >> it is on um I think it's safe to um uh select the one-time funds, the budget supply reduction, and the services budget reduction for that equals 325,000. That sounds pretty stable. >> Yeah. Okay. Along with that, do we want to add anything else in there? I would like to put in the uh the special education program um FTE certificated teacher that's 126,000. I would like to add in the classified instructional support reduction of hours which is 10,000 and you're going too fast. I'm sorry. >> No, it's okay. But I wanted to um they're on different pages I believe. Um so you said um special education program. Yeah. So that's 126,000 and then we have the >> You want to remove that? >> I would like to reduce that. Yes. and also

060reduce classified instructional support reduction of hours which is 10,000. >> Oh, that one on everyone. Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm sorry. Can you repeat that? >> The classified instructional support which is a reduction of hours that is $10,000. It will not affect the school day. >> Yes, absolutely. >> And when you said the psychologist, did you say the intern or no? >> No. Okay. Just writing it down. What did you say? >> Well, I initially only said those uh bottom three that are present on there. >> Earlier in the meeting, she mentioned >> prior to I talked about the psychologist for 140. I just >> selected a position that was identified in our highest density. Um from our last presentation, I just was kind of following what we talked about like top down density, all of

061that. That's how I >> I just started there. Um, so that was like 140. So, I had a question. I So, I'm 600. How did you get to 600? I only got the 461. Don't forget the 325 from the bottom. did that and then 126 and 10 and the 144 was psychology. Oh, I didn't hear that one. Yeah. Okay. What was the must do? 6672. Oh, if so on the um >> you don't want to hear anything. Oh, no, no, no. Oh, okay. Um on the um retirement for the PE program, yes, it's you know, we would one um certificated teacher, but it says retirement, PE teacher, but that's the same position, correct? I mean, if we hired into that position, it's is it going to >> If we backfill that position, that's not a

062savings. >> If we backfill the position, it's not a savings cuz we're just >> If we don't backfill the position, it's a savings of that amount of money and then we would have two PE teachers that would that would do PE districtwide. Okay. Okay. So, I'm going to propose that that we do not fulfill the retirement of the PE program and we go to two and we see how that works for teachers. Can we ask that that be tabled until our next meeting? Because I got a text message during this meeting saying that I don't know how accurate it is, but that we might need the 400 hours for junior high and it it whether it's accurate or not, I don't know. But uh if it is accurate, will that change that entry level? >>

063I think the I think the only thing that would change is that either we decide that these two existing PE teachers focus more on junior high and less on the youngers and the teachers would need to supplement or vice versa, right? Then then maybe maybe I I'm spitballing this, right? But like maybe we create a situation in junior high where there's some sort of team teaching, right? And if we're teachers, Den, and and you have 23 kids and I have 20. That's 43 kids out at PE. Maybe I say, "You're going to do PE for this week and I'm going to prep and then we're going to swap it." >> Right? Like I think that there's things that we can do that are creative. >> Um, >> and we're only I'm only and I'm only

064saying that because like we have to reduce budget, right? Like it's a fiscally responsible like we're in the situation, right? So if we think that we can try that and that's something that you know we can look at there's less savings or we or we take away something else. >> On CDE it does say it's 200 minutes. If it's a K to8 school it does say 7th and 8 7th through 12th is 400 minutes. So if it's a K to8 district, seventh and eighth grade should be where 200 minutes is the minimum, but 400 is what is recommended for middle school. >> So I think if you're in a K to eight, you can get away with having the two, but >> and again, I know we did talk about the fact that if we

065had we'd still have two PE teachers, we wouldn't back one position. So we would still have options for our teachers. And again, like I said, our kids didn't have a special PE teacher. The classroom teacher did it. And maybe if we had onetime funding, there could be some vendors or people who come in and do activities or something. I don't know. That's me. >> I think what's hard here is that we hired these PE teachers, if I'm not incorrect, with money that came in with co >> It was co Yes. >> And now that money is gone. >> And so PE as much as great as it is, as fantastic as it is, it's a luxury. And right now we don't have the money for luxuries. And so I would love for our teachers to

066have prep periods and you know all these wonderful things. But if we reduce some of this then maybe in the future we can look at adding things back in. But we're we're just not in a position to do that. And it and it's scary to me how low our our reserve is. And and I'm not sure that I want to just put that on the back burner and say we'll deal with that later. I think that we should start addressing that in in some part and and these are hard decisions that we have to make, but um I think some PE is better than no PE, but I also don't think that we can afford to have three PE PE teachers in this district at this time. And also if we decided to cut that

067one well with the psychologist with the special ed that would get that would make 731 that's correct and our minimum was 672 so in a sense we would have a little bit extra to go towards our >> reserve and it's not a lot but it's things. >> Yeah, because we're at the point where we haven't been needing the reserve at the last three or four interims and then I will move things to one-time funds so that the general fund can meet the reserve. So, there's really nowhere else to move anything. So, that would help having a little bit of a buffer. >> Okay. Okay. And so again, if I'm understanding this, the 672 is the minimum. That's the bare minimum that we have to reduce. Is that what I'm hearing or is that just what

068you >> That's what I came away with um from the presentation was the 430 and one time funds was coming to an end and we were deficit spending 242. >> Is that correct? >> Yes. >> So that's where I got that. >> So that's where I came up with 672. All right. If that's nothing. Okay. So, that would leave us with $60,000 to put it into our reserve. >> 16,000. Is that what you said? >> 60. >> So, I mean, it's it's it's a start for sure. But, you know, when we're talking about not having enough money to, you know, make our payroll if something happens or if we have an unexpected cost that now all of a sudden we're in big trouble, you know, we really have to we really have to consider these

069things. It's it's our fiduciary responsibility with this to to make these decisions. And they're not popular, but I I really feel like the fiscal health of this district is important. I've worked in a district where they didn't bother to worry about it and it's a lot harder later to make a lot of cuts than it is to make a few cuts earlier. So, um I'm going to propose that we move forward with um the 325,000 um which is um the supplies the uh the onetime fund bonus adjustment, the supplies budget reduction, the services budget reduction, which is a a cost of 825,000. I'm going to propose that we move forward with the 126,000 which is the reduction in special education program. Um, I move that we do the $10,000, which is the classified instructional support

070reduction of hours, that we move to reduce one psychologist at a cost of $140,500, and that we do not backfill the retirement with the PE program at $130,500 for a total of $732,000. A total of what? >> $732,000. >> I got 731. >> It doesn't matter. Um, >> so before we >> I just want to make sure a couple things. I just want to make sure nobody wants to have a conversation about some of these other things that we haven't touched on that are in options like the health aid and the library tech and the RTI which stands for response to intervention instructional assistant. Um I just want to make sure like you know >> that's addressed and then um I also want to make sure that if we you know there's a lot of

071whatifs, right? But if we don't if we decide that we're not going to get to the 800 to 850, which is understandable, we also have to keep in mind, let's circle back a little bit back to the conversation about the possibility of hiring some other people to help with behaviors. Um, unless we get some extra onetime funds or we get some extra funding from the federal government, that's not going to be able to we're not going to be able to do that. So, like I just want to make that clear, right? Like, which is fine, right? But I just, you know, I I think if um my I I like what Denise said, I could get behind that for tonight. Um, and if you come up with a plan for additional counseling or services and

072we find out what that cost is, we can revisit this list and find out if there if we can make additional cuts to offset to if we feel that counseling would be more beneficial than these other programs. I I would be willing to look at it then. We're >> I I will I will tell you right now I will not have that information in time for the deadlines I'm up against with the March 15th. >> But Julie and I can look at it today down the road. >> I was say we were at the workshop with capital adviserss today and they're hopeful that the governor's budget additional special education funding and the onetime funding will pass even if we just got additional special education funding that would help the general fund. same. >> But we

073would have to understand that if it's onetime funding, we're going to be right back here with potentially cutting things. If we decide to hire, >> it might not be the things we hire because we might be like, "Yeah, that that's serving our students needs and that is meeting our needs more than this and we might be then needing to cut a program, >> right? It's just very important that people understand that when we do the things with the onetime money, like that's why we're here, right? Yeah. >> Then we're going to eventually probably have to have conversations about what um we think is a little bit less of a priority in in the moment of what we're being faced with in the moment at that time. >> You're still doing the program, right? >> We're

074in the process of uh we've been piloting two new social emotional learning um curriculum programs. Yes. Okay. So, you have feedback on that? >> I think a a survey went out today, I think I saw in my email um about um like rating the first trial that we did and then we're currently in piloting the second one >> and we can use restricted lottery funds for that. It's the curriculum. >> It's not part of anything. >> No, the reason I asked because of my counseling position. >> You can ask if you want. I mean, they're they're on there. So, you're right. It is on there and I think we were kind of looking at big numbers, but you know, cutting that kind of a position, what does that mean for the district? >> We currently

075have two health aids. Okay. >> So, if we cut one health aid, then So, currently we have one health aid full-time here because it's the largest site, right? And then the other one goes back. >> Well, when I say full-time, they they only service this. Thank you, Tar. They service this school site, Opus Elementary, for 4 hours a day. The other one services Lassuma and OCI. So they're at one site for a couple days and then the other site a couple days. And so if we reduce that, pardon me, that person would go away and those duties would go to most likely the office assistant would be, you know, doing the ice packs and the the band-aids and the taking the temperatures and calling home if they need to go home and scratches and um

076if it's anything big and we need the our district nurse to address it, then you know, she's on call and she can come and and look at the student. Obviously, if it's an emergency, we call 911. >> Um, so that that position would go away and then um the office would absorb those responsibilities. Only reason I asked about the seal was to see if that was having some kind of a help with the children so that you don't need the counseling. Well, we have our parent educators do that. >> Yeah. I think I think there's a pretty big need right now for for all of it, honestly. >> Yeah. >> Well, now that we've talked about the health aid position, I'm like, again, that's a common practice. It was when my kids were in school,

077but I don't I just not I didn't I didn't look at that line item. I didn't study that. So, I don't know. And Jordan is full-time. >> Yes. >> And where is she housed? >> She has an office at each site. So, she kind of bobs around >> and she rotates around. >> Oh, I um but but those two parttime positions assist Jordan or the the school nurse. >> Yeah. They help her a lot with the immunization records and getting information out to families, plus dealing with the day-to-day triage. >> I think they mostly do the day-to-day triage. >> Yeah. of the, you know, the kids coming in because they fell or they don't feel good, they have a tummy ache, >> um, fevers, throwing up. >> Mhm. >> It's been a big help to

078the offices, >> but we only have one here and then the other one rotates the other two places. So, >> and then the RTI IA, I did ask this question. I just haven't again. >> So, what do you want to know about the RTI? >> So, the RTI um IIA what what do they do? >> So, there's a response to intervention IIA at this school site Opra Elementary where there's also two credential teachers. Um and so they're in there helping helping kids in the classroom with their response to intervention lessons. Um, currently at Oakst Elementary, the the students that are being serviced in the number of students that are being serviced in response to intervention is 75. So if you split that, it's about 37 and 38 per teacher. Um, and then there's one RTI

079teacher at Wasuma and that case load is 35. And that site has an aid for like 30 minutes a day. Um, and that's not consistent over the years. And at this site, it's been pretty consistent and it's 4 hours a day. >> Okay. So the 30 minutes a day, does that person do other duties? >> Yes, that person has um split duties. Yeah. So, but those teachers are having about the same, you know, their case loads are pretty similar. 35, 37, and 38. Okay. And but only one site has an aid. Well, one site has an aid for 4 hours and one site has an aid for 30 minutes, >> but they have the same they have the same case load. Correct. But we're only talking about one RTIA that's on the options and that's

080the one for us, >> right? >> Yeah. So probably I mean that's because like that person like it gets kind of weird when it's like 30 minutes of that person's day and I think that a lot of times it kind of just depends on like how that person over there is being scheduled with things. So like it's not super consistent. So it made more sense to me look at things that were like consistent, right? So like that's a 4hour position that you know we need to look at like >> do we need that? >> Right. Is that something that we could reduce? >> You know like I was turning over like all the rocks, right? >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. And this is from a position or a category that has had an increase in um

081of 123% in density, >> right? >> Okay. So, you're thinking about the RTI. >> Uh-huh. Okay. >> So, do you want to put that one in the mix? >> They're saying I catch that in the in the in the student. >> No, on the presentation last board meeting where I did the um staffing density, >> it was the last slide and it showed remember like our our enrollment was going down but our staffing was going up. >> Oh, right. Right. Right. >> Right. And so we were looking at like, okay, it makes sense to kind of look at those areas that are like >> it was this one where it was like the highest to the lowest. That's what guided us on the scenario. >> Kind of guided us on the scenarios a little bit

082to to the best of our ability, right? And so what Julia is saying is classified instructional like the RTI person would fall into that and that was the second highest density. >> Yes. So basically if we look at option four the psychologist intern is kind of the the question mark there of keeping that but that's basically what what we're talking about. I mean, that's basically what I proposed, what Julie's proposed at part of that. The psychologist intern is the only thing that we haven't really sused out along with the psychologist >> and the health aid. >> I hadn't listed the health a yet, but >> I mean, I know we were just talking about it, but I hadn't listed it as a definite on her notes. Yeah, >> you're right. That's pretty close. >> But

083yeah, that's pretty close to option four is what you're saying. >> Yes, that's what I'm trying to say. Instead of us having to peacemail this, if you just look at option four, >> it's basically option four pulling potentially pulling out the health aid and the psych intern is just kind of like that's going to be up in the air depending on what happens with that psychologist reduction. >> Right. So I would just I mean I think with that it's like okay, do we want to keep that person if we have somebody to supervise them? >> Yes or no? Yeah. And if we don't have somebody to supervise them, we can't keep them, >> right? And I guess the question is, do does that person if they are learning, are they are they such a benefit

084to us? >> I would say yes. >> Okay. >> Because they can do a lot of the counseling. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, and they're and also and not to be rude, but like they're interns. In most industries, when you have an intern, like that's a pretty good fiscal that's a good return for your investment, right? >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> Well, and then I would be concerned >> uh because that if we eliminate one psychologist position, that takes us down to two, >> Right. And maybe two and a half. >> Maybe two and a half, >> but probably two. And um again when I was looking at the numbers that's that's getting kind of for the amount of uh students we have in that services it's getting pretty tight. >> It'll be tight.

085I'm I'm not going to lie. It'll be tight. >> And that's why I'm a little concerned about actually doing both those positions at one time because again we're trying to keep ahead of the issues, right? And so I I would be concerned about doing both those at the same time. We could also, if you decided to go in that direction, I mean, we could get, you know, depending on, let's say we get into September or October and we're like, oo, this might be rough when we're looking at our numbers and we've got some more revenue coming in because of the budget. We could I mean, we could fly a position. >> Yeah. Or maybe that >> potentially or we look into the the counseling side of things, >> you know, the counseling aid could be

086the same cost. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. I mean I I have also had reservations about the psychologist but I look at having three of those in a small district and when she had said that we have one psychologist for every 222 students and there can be an average of one to every 500 students. you know that's you know >> right but also uh in a higher district it the number was like 1 to 250 in a higher >> they were saying when you have like when you're doing the like comprehensive where you have psychologists that are hitting a lot of different things and they're not just testing that ratio should go down because they're they have more responsibilities but like you said anyways >> okay Yeah. So, I was confused cuz I was thinking

087because we had such a high case load of special ed that the numbers were down. But you're saying only if the psychologist did other options, too. >> But, you know, some of those things might just have to fall on in other spaces for a while, right? I mean, we're all gonna it's fair for like kind of everybody to like feel things a little bit here, you know? I mean, we're all we're all going to >> Yeah. I think if we don't reduce the psychologist, then we're at 591500. So, if we take the psychologist out, which it's not it's not enough. I mean, it's $200,000 less than we asked Michelle to find in the last meeting. I don't I don't want to lose the fact that we gave her a number based on the math that

088we did based on the the budget presentation that we were given. So, I don't want to go too far backwards on this. Well, also I like Julie said, we looked at the numbers of what we must cut and then the rest would be additional to the reserve and I myself too want to be very careful. I get we have to build up the reserve but I would like to take it slow. I don't you know that puts us on track to what get our reserve up in how long if we cut the 800 and some odd five years. >> Five years it takes us to build up our reserve had a slide on that last time. >> Yeah, I thought it was six years. >> Guess what? I have that. I brought it with me.

089I kind of had a feeling you'd ask. >> Let's see. Oh, I turned right to it. Um it it was hypotheticalish, right? because it was based on the $14 million budget and that kind of fluctuates, right? But it said, um, okay, it would take 6 years to grow the reserve from 4% to 10% by adding 1% of the budget each year. And that 1% would be 140,000. So if we put aside 140,000 for 6 years, we would be closer to the 10% reserve. Yeah. So when you think about that, that's six years. So if we don't put anything towards that this year, now we're behind. Now next year it's $280,000, which is harder to do. Every year it compounds. It's going to get harder to do it. But every year the I mean I get

090I hear what you're saying and I'm not trying to be uh but also the budget changes. they tell us this and then we actually get this and then this doesn't come in and then we didn't spend this and so I feel like sometimes at the end of the year >> we budgeted tight budget but yet we didn't quite spend at all so >> not >> lately though we've been >> and our enrollment is down so that's just >> so we have to prepare for the worst and hope for the best and if new money comes in then we can make new choices but right now we have to go on what's what's reality need to have a positive budget certification. So, >> so okay, but so you're saying if we don't add the 1% we're

091not going to have a positive certification. >> No, we're right now we're just at the minimum. And in the multi-year projection, I had the cuts of the 430,000 in the one-time funds plus the cuts in services and supplies. So, we needed to get at least the minimum of cuts to be able to meet our reserve and have a positive certification. But that wasn't any extra. But okay. So, >> and every year we keep doing that. We're kicking the can down the road. We have to build our reserve up. >> So, um what what was the So, what is the minimum this year? And then what is additional that would go because we just said what 60 70,000 would go to reserve. So, that's half of what we wanted. So, that's like half a percent. >>

092It's a little less. It's less than that cuz we It's 100,000 would be half >> and it was 60 and we were at 60. >> It's like 750 or so. >> Yeah. And again, I'm trying to return to going back to the meeting that we had because we were taking those numbers and working them towards a number that we gave Michelle >> so that we could start building the reserve. So, if we don't start building the reserve, then we at some point we have to do this again to build the reserve. Does that make sense? >> I feel like it's going to it's inevitable. I feel like, you know, I mean, I don't know. I just I mean, how many times do we want to come here? This is painful. It's horrible. How many times

093do we want to come back and do this? I I just think that in a year where we are considering cuts, I don't think that that's the year to bolster the reserve. >> I Yeah, I feel like we're making like we're modifying the cuts this year knowing that we're still not meeting our reserve and we're probably going to have to revisit it next year, but make these changes, see how it goes, and then, you know, readress it again. Like we could even do it, you know, after because what the fiscal year ends in July. So we'll have Well, I guess these cuts are next year revision. >> We have to make by March 15th. >> Yeah. >> Right. We're doing that right now for the basics. >> Couldn't cut any more after that. >> After

094that, but then next year or then we can work on it and then if we have to make cuts again next year. >> Okay. I I think it just we need to be very transparent with the board and with the public that these could be conversations that are continuing to happen in out years if we decide to um take it a little slower >> to do the minimum. >> Yeah. Okay. So then can someone go over Ronda Julie with a little bit more conservatism? Can you please propose where you would do the reductions? Oh, I think we Oh, sorry. I think I I agreed with you. I felt like the thing the the um not replacing the retirement of the PE teacher one psychologist, special education program, one uh certificated teacher, and the classified instructional

095support reduction of hours. The that says 10,000 won't affect the day. Um, I don't know. I'm a little on the fence about the RTI instructional aid. Um, I I concerned about that one, but I feel like anyways, we could talk about that one. We could talk about the 23,000 for, you know, the the part-time classified instructional support because it looks like OES has four hours and Wasuma has 30 minutes and and they all have about the same size classrooms. So, I guess I would be open to to considering cutting that position maybe. Anybody else has any ideas about that? >> I just wanted to weigh in. Um, I agree with most of what we're calling option four on here and uh I'm not going to pretend I have enough uh personal information on the actual

096positions to say, you know, this one's more important than another. So, uh, but I I like where that budget ends up in in that scenario of all the ones we've seen. And I I've heard four or five of the points you talked about fall still follow that way. So I'm I'm I'm following >> Yeah, I' I've been in support of option four since Michelle gave us the revised yesterday. Um so the psychologist issue um now don't shoot the messenger please. Um but there is a dransition lawsuit that just was awarded $2 million verdict. Uh so this had to do with gender affirming care the psychologist was part of the u defended and lost. So if we are doing gender affirming care and again simply asking a question then that is potential because there's expected to

097be if you look at the news an avalanche of lawsuits against uh practitioners and psychologists and counselors just bringing forward the news. >> Our psychologists are following the law. So that that's affirmative then. >> I mean they're >> I just >> Yeah. >> So does that mean you're in support of keeping the psychologist or reducing the psychologist? >> Reducing >> based on what I just read. >> Okay. All right. So >> it's not against any human being. It's just a fact now of what's going to be happening. >> Yes. Their potential for litigation is everywhere. everywhere else >> psychologists are doing that special education program. They're not. It doesn't have to has anything to do with gender affirming care unless that >> but if it's involved in that this is a big deal now >>

098you could potentially have a special ed student that is transitioning but that's a separate deal. It doesn't in my understanding our psychologists are working with our special ed population. Correct. They work with both. >> Okay. >> And they follow the procedures and the protocols within >> California law. >> Within the within the law. Okay. Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, if we return to option four, are you comfortable with option four or is there something that you would like to remove from option four? I think that if we uh option for the psychologist intern, I don't think that we should cut both the psychologist and the intern at the same time. >> Okay. >> Um but you understand that I might not have a choice depending on because you have to understand when when we

099make cuts there's seniority rules that play in, right? So we don't get to choose >> okay >> and necessarily who like if there's more than one person in a role that there's rules about like seniority and stuff right so depending on how all that shakes out might depend on whether or not the intern stays. So that just needs to be like that I'm going to have to make that that's just going to happen, right? Like I'm not really going to have control over that. >> Again, we could potentially I I my concern again with that is just that at the numbers that we have with special ed and the psychologist number, we're real close to maxing out on the psychologist to get their work done for special ed and we want to focus and be

100preventative minded. So, you know, that's all I'm concerned about, but I I hear you on that. Um, so, but if we had if you if it came down and we couldn't protect that position and it was taken away from us and we only had two psychologists, we have a backup. We could potentially maybe I mean, it's also important to understand that now you have two psychologists doing all the work that three were doing and now they need to supervise an intern, which is work, >> right? So it might not be feasible, >> okay, >> with with with it. You know, you're taking that additional workload and putting it onto a practitioner that might not have the ability to to do the supervision >> even if they were qualified to. So because of the demands of

101the job, but okay. Yes, I hear you on that. Um so if we if we go from three to two or I mean and a half the the intern is basically considered oh support a support that's where we were talking about the counseling. Mhm. >> It's a delicate balance because and I know you know the um special ed program >> it cost a lot of money to run but we've also been penalized over the decisions that have that have not been made in the past or unknown to unbeknownst to us. you know, things weren't done. And so I think that's how we got to where we are now with the psychologist. And so we just have to be very careful and balanced with that. But okay. So I hear what you're saying, but so if

102we went with option four, but we we struck that support position, right? And we left it optional, right? Because we might not have >> Well, there's two support. I mean, a psychologist and an intern are both certificated support personnel. >> I'm sorry. Um, well, you have it on here as one full-time certificated support is 140. So, the psychologist and then the next line is another one full-time certificate support for the psychologist intern. Right. >> Right. So, we would strike out that intern one. Is that right? And if it could work out, it would work out. Do you hear what I'm saying? Because if we go with option four, we're going to say that that support person, we're going to lose a psychologist and that support person. >> So one and a half people. >> But

103you're saying if we have the means to support an intern, keep them, retain them. >> That's what I'm That's what I'm proposing. >> You're giving Yeah. >> Yeah. So option four without that line item. >> Yeah. So you're saying just take out the psychologist intern for now and then >> what about the health aid and the RTI aid? >> Does anyone want >> I didn't have those on the list. >> RTI aid and the health aid, >> but I didn't >> the health aid and the RTI aid were not on the list. >> Diane and Stephen already said that they're in support of option four. >> That makes sense. Julie, do you have an opinion? >> Yeah, I can get behind that. >> Okay. So, we're going to take out we're going to do option

104four and remove the psychologist intern from that to see if that person can be of help depending on the the seniority piece. I have another question. So, if if we uh you know, so we're not going to eliminate that $39,000 potentially, right? But let's just say we don't have an intern next year or we can't accommodate an intern. Can we take that $39,000 and talk about counseling services? >> Counseling aid or something >> like the aid like we were just talking about >> earlier. I think we have. >> Okay. >> I was just thinking that that's probably something that we need to keep on the forefront of our mind, right? When we're talking about new positions or things like that, we need to remember this conversation and what we're doing here because we're also concerned

105about the reserve, right? So, but if we go with option four except for that, we're actually going to be contributing to our reserve. How much? Well, then that adjusted 8616,000 is 770US >> 777,000 >> and and how much of it is going to go to the reserve? >> Depends on what our expenses are, but it would need it to be around 600 um 620. >> So, we're kind of doing a little bit of both. We're kind of compromising here. >> Okay. >> All right. Then I I guess I can get behind four with the psychologist intern support staff position lined up. >> Okay. So >> go ahead. >> Um Do you want information about I don't know if I want to set myself up for this. >> Very close. >> I know. I know. >>

106I'm going to I'm going to state a concern along with transparency, right? Like this has been a lot of work, right? and I have dabbled in the in the um scenarios of the two PE teachers servicing the whole district. Okay. I I don't I can't say for certain that every single classroom is going to get PE once a week, right? So, I I just want to make sure that like I'm being transparent about that. If we decide to do this and retain two of the PE teachers, I think there needs to be some flexibility and some um time given to make sure that like I'm we can like I'm going to need to talk to site principles. We're going to need to look at schedulings. Like that's a huge thing, right? And so I'm just

107saying that, right? So like that >> we had a halftime. I don't know if we want to just be like, okay, like we're going to see how that rolls out or do we want to like have a more solid idea of how that's going to roll out before we make a decision. I guess that's where I'm kind of going with it. Um I wish I wish I could h could have had that tonight, but like I just this >> Right. Yeah. So I just thought that that was an an important thing to >> bring up. So within that, if I'm hearing you, are you thinking that that we should entertain the idea of more information? >> Yeah. So more information. So does that mean you want to table this until >> or you either want

108to entertain more information or we understand that like you know that that might not pan out to be as pretty as I said in 2 minutes of when I answered the the somebody had the question of well what does that look like? Well what that looks like is two PE teachers with about 15 classrooms each. >> Yeah. >> Right. Like that sounds great when you say it quick, right? But like we have RTI pullouts and we have music pullouts and we have electives and we have different grades spans and we have free school sites and so like there's a lot involved in that. >> And so I think that that we need to be fair about that, right? That that >> we're not quite sure how that'll look. We also have to make sure that

109allocating that money is is a good idea because those two positions are $210,000. So, we have to make sure that that we're getting the bang for our buck, that the teachers are getting the bang for the buck, that the district is getting the bang for the buck, especially when we're talking about we don't have counseling services and everyone's crying out for that. So, so I I agree that maybe we should just >> I just, you know, I try to I try to have the crystal ball, >> you know, sorry to interrupt you. I try to have the crystal ball down there and go like, "Okay, well, now we're down now we're close to August and we're trying and you know, we're in the summer and we're we're managing this and how how is that really

110going to look, right?" And that takes a lot of time and effort to like look at that. And so, I don't know. I just I had that thought as we were discussing tonight, right? And so, I just thought I'd fling that out there. >> Okay. So the only issue though is that we have to make some decisions within you know we have basically a week. So can you >> can you research that? >> I feel like I could have a clearer answer than two PE teachers will have 15 classrooms. >> Okay. >> Well I have >> right >> um I have a a different lens that I wanted to present. if we're going to give you direction and we have the March 15th deadline so that people have proper notification if they may or may

111not be employed. >> Mhm. >> Um that is still that that only that just gives us options, right? We it just because someone gets pink slipped doesn't mean that they don't have a job. If we find out between now and May that we've got a lot of or the budget situation has uh they decided to pay us back from last year stuff that they didn't pay us. If we are in a different financial position in May, we might not have to lay off the the people or the the positions, the eliminate positions, whatever that we we are simply saying we're not sure at this time. We're going to wait until we see what the budget actually looks like. But we have to protect ourselves as a district. And so sending out these notifications is what

112is our responsibility. >> That is correct and we can do that. >> The flip side, if you're the person receiving that pink slip, we just have to understand as a board and as a superintendent and as a district that those folks might start looking for jobs, right? As they should. Absolutely. and and there might depending on you know the lapse in time there they may end up finding you know because obviously they want to make sure they secure something. >> So the answer to the question is yes we can resend and sometimes that happens fairly quickly right before people go and look for something else and and commit to something else but sometimes that doesn't happen quickly and then you know they commit to something else. Um, and so, you know, there's that issue, too.

113But yes, we we certainly could send out the notifications and then resend them if things change. >> I think the other thing to consider, though, is it when someone gets a pink slip, it's a bit of a slap in the face, right? So, sometimes somebody might go find another job and say, "Syanara, fast Lake School District, whether we try to give them the, you know, we try to resend it or not." Right? I mean, that's a little bit sour grapes. So, I don't know. That could shoot us in the foot in the end at the end of the day. But I hear where you're coming from. >> I just I'm wondering how that relates to the PE program though because if we elim it doesn't you're just making your com. So if we move forward

114with the option four that we discussed tonight, you're just asking for more time to tell us what it would look like restructuring it. >> Is there retirement? >> I'm not I mean I'm not necessarily asking that. I'm just putting it out there that you know there I don't I haven't had enough time to really say to you this is exactly what that program will look like with two PE teachers. >> Yeah. For sure. >> Um I think it would be difficult. I mean, you would have to spend so much time in order to give us what each scenario, you know, with the reduction in staff would look like. You we would want the PE, we would want the psychologist, we would want the like >> I I don't I Well, I don't feel like I

115need that. >> Okay, fair. I just >> I I felt like I needed to say it. I I think the only thing I and it's true is we want to be um fair to everybody in the district. Correct. That is what you're going to >> We're trusted you that you will do the best you can to be fair to everybody. >> Um >> Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, if I'm hearing correctly, then what we would like to do this evening is to proceed with option four, removing the psychologist intern. And then Michelle will determine whether that intern will have um continue to have a position based on seniority and the ability for that psychologist to uh to supervise. That's not correct. So, do we have to do this line item or >> or do I

116>> just take option four? >> Option four was taking out whatever you guys want to take out. >> Okay. >> Keep all that. >> So, I make a motion that we reduce the budget utilizing option four with the exception of the psychologist intern. >> I'll second. >> Okay. We've already had a lot of discussion. So, roll call vote. >> I I I >> I All right. Moving on. >> We just have a journ. So I call this meeting.