001Good afternoon and thank you for joining the policy and management subcommittee today. We're opening it and calling it to order at 5:05 p.m. Can we please stand and do the pledge of allegiance? Place your right hand over your heart. Ready? Begin. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Please be seated. Mr. Fallsgraph, would you like to um make some opening comments? Yes. Um our chairperson uh Dr. Jesus is not uh able to be here due to the callings of his professional war. He sends us all his best. We are joined by Ron Wineart who is the um uh district's legal representative and we'll be talking about um the last
002to bring this to the board because bullying is touched on in other board policies, but we don't have a specific one for bullying. So, this would be something that we would be adding to our board policies. Okay. So um in the work that's been done about staff in the background remembering that the subcommittee meetings lack a quorum of three. So there's no business can be done here. The purpose of these meetings is to do some of the ground work the background work take input and that type of thing. So along those lines um staff from the education side of the house is there anything you want to talk about here uh now? No. Okay. Thank you Bill. The second board policy that we uh brought to the education subcommittee is the mobile communication devices. And
003that one we needed to decide if we wanted to do one board policy where we have all schools no phones whatsoever or there's two options or policy where some of the school the children have to keep their phones put away but when they're not in the classroom so like during their lunchtime they can have their phones and the the discussion was that at the middle school the policy currently is no phones whatsoever. But at the high school, phones are put away during class, but when they are at lunch, they do have their phones that they can use. And the kind of the the overall consensus was that they wanted to keep the the policy the same for the way they are now at the school sites and not have one that dictated to both. Okay.
004So, that would be the staff recommendation. Yes, sir. So, um remembering that there's only one of me here, um I think that this should be brought not as anformational item or a hearing, but a a decision item. I think we've been through the hearing um on this and talked about it several times. I think what you can expect is there's going to be a question that you should get a legal opinion on, not here this evening, but um so what happens when people are are um encouraging fights with the use with the phone and we're posting on social media and we're posting people being assaulted. Uh, and I'm I'm really interested in what um legal would have to say about what culpability the district has in a policy that doesn't protect people's um from being
005beat up on television. Um, and I also would be interested in what responsibility district has when somebody um is seen assaulting and battering someone. And that's that's not a decision maker. And it's unfortunate that you know the I I understand that the uh education subcommittee uh representative Dr. Chamberlain is interested in delivering the best education without being arbitrary and that you know growing up and and being socially proper or part of normal education because we don't want to send people out in the world that aren't ready to do a job interview or practice good policy at work. So, uh, my recommendation to you is to bring it to the board and then when you do, uh, board agenda with, um, the board president. Um, let's get some feedback on that. Is this something you want
006done before the end of this year? Dr. Sakin, I mean, we can we have one more board meeting that would be for June 26 and then we'll return back in the August. So we will report out in today's meeting that um those first two items should be on the agenda for discussion and action um at the final board meeting of the this fiscal year. Okay. And I will get the information for Dr. Sahakin as far as the legal ramifications and responsibility of the district um for video of fighting and so forth. Wonderful. Okay. Then we have a new one which is the alcohol and other drugs. So I compared it because we do have currently that board policy but this is a new one as you can see it was just revised this year in
007March. So the big differences is if you look under instruction notification the very first paragraph what's in uh commas consistent with law the accompanying administrative regulation and board policy and specifically calls out suicide prevention. So it's tying it together to be sure that everybody is aware the uh two par two paragraphs down from or third three three paragraphs down from that it talks about the fact that the district needs to do annual notification to parents at the beginning of the year of the dangers associated with drug use and I believe there's a there's a comment here in the policy about fentinel um mr has you know made the public aware of fans use and the possible dangers of it as well. Okay, we actually added that to our safety plans last year and the site
008safety plans. That was a new requirement this year. Perfect. And that is referred to on the back page. So if you look at where it says uh opiates, that's where it talks about fentinel that the students in middle school and high school can carry uh fentinel test strips. So if they think that someone may have overdosed on something, they have those test strips to see. Um there's also the enforcement and discipline. Um the addition on the first paragraph is just the very first uh five words unless otherwise authorized by law. Everything else there is the same. And then just above program evaluation that last um paragraph which says that the district may use alternatives to the referral of a student to law enforcement. So those are the changes compared to what we currently have adopted
009as board policy. Okay. So when this one comes up for discussion, I think the introduction of it should be So is this a first read and the second uh read action item? This one would be a first because this one I'm just bringing it for the first time. Right. So bringing this forward if if I'm going to call out for discussion if I don't see it coming out of staff. I'd like to see uh uh an overview. So, anytime that there's a there's a as good practice at work when I'm bringing something forward that has a policy uh steps to it that might be uh have to be shown or tracked in a legal action later. I kind of just briefly go over it's the same slide. It gets tired, but this is what triggers
010these. I I don't want people thinking in the community that we're just in the background change in board policy. What triggers a board policy change? um it how how do they come forward? Are they sent to you? Is it law? Is it that kind of thing? So, kind of just an overview what this is, what the uh agency props are from above us, the regulatory agencies, um that legal has a quick look at these and then it's kind of like if you're able to call out in just brief bullet points what's different now, what has changed now? Okay. Okay. So, that's good. Um, I think there's probably going to be questions about um um what does it mean that that district staff has the ability to make other arrangements and notify enforcement? I would need
011to know what the policy checklist is for that. You know, Tammy Falls grass should never be called on the police no matter what she does. But all those other kids over there, I don't want that. um fair firm and consistency of policy and how that varies from. So the suggested language coming from the California School Boards Association is that alternative methodologies might be considered. Yes, sir. So that's what came to you in Okay. So, I'm really interested in in what that means to the staff that's responsible for making disciplinary policies and uh and also the these board policy suggestions um they or you know they're they're like we have the we can add to them which we don't usually but we can take things away so this doesn't fit with our view or our you
012know so the idea that this is the minimum restrictiveness level and it can be made more restrictive using local control but not to the point where somebody's civil rights or the law is violated more or less. Thank you. More ordinance. Yeah. More or less. And give legal input on that especially when we're making changes because I think these probably have kind of been vetted because they're from the CSBA. Thank you for the the acronym. Um but if we make changes, we definitely would want to check with legal just to make sure that we, you know, are not overstepping or even underststepping. Okay. So, those were the policies I was bringing to you. I know that we wanted to discuss also the visitor and volunteer policy. So, I'll hand that over to you because I know
013you'd like to hear from um Mr. uh Wart. Okay. So, um where currently is this visitor and volunteer policy? Is it been approved? Is it still coming? Is it where where are we on this? I get a copy from my recollection uh you know I don't have a specific date but I want to say in this academic calendar we brought the visitor visitor policy stuff to the board in terms of the updates in terms of CSA recommended language. Um typically the visitor policies um copies of hard copies are in the front office of the school site campus but yes the policy was updated by CSBA and ours wasn't updated for quite some time but with new language we brought it to the board several months back and it's also included in the volunteer package when
014they come to do fingerprints. There's a volunteer package that is given to to the parent or you know the person that comes in for for fingerprinting and that is included in there also so that they know what the expectations are. Thank you Ron. Good afternoon. You have to unmute myself. You can only run you able to for [Music] press a microphone in the bottom left. Uh Ron There you go. Can you try one more time, Ron? Oh, there we go. Yeah, I think it was muted at your end because uh I was trying to unmute but it wasn't working. So yeah, the policy that I have uh I got off your website is was adopted in 2005. So I've got the uh board policy 1250 and the uh administrative regulation 1050 1250. So um if
015there's a new one, I haven't seen that yet, but be happy to review it. Okay, Ron. So, um, and for, uh, everyone watching this and whoever will watch it in the future, the purpose of the subcommittees is to do some basic work to see if things are ready for prime time and do some preliminary stuff. But there is, as I mentioned before, not an ability, there's not a quorum here. This carries no weight in terms of formalizing an action. You typically will see good uh agencies that have subcommittees or liaison groups. When it comes time for discussion, they may ask what the opinion of the group is. Uh the responsible thing for the people that serve on these subcommittees is there are specific administrative staff directed um to help us in in discussing issues. Now
016you'll remember at the first meeting of this group um we discussed um suspension and expulsion policies and I led Ron through a series of theoreticals as to what happens uh in terms of having to alter things when it comes to someone who has a declared eligibility uh andor an IEP meeting and there's a a manifest best determination um to see if the behavior is is um what's actually triggering the event that's causing a disciplinary review and that sometimes that type of stuff isn't popular um on the campus because on one hand there's the need to ex to protect people's civil rights. On the other hand, there's worries about somebody that is a repeat behavior problem maybe putting other and I've actually had uh people tell me, well, it seems that our classroom is being held
017hostage. So, anybody that wants to see that would simply uh Google on the on the the district uh AADUSD, look up subcommittee policy and management and then you would find expulsion and suspension policies. And I think it is doing everything they can besides posting a library of these things. These these meetings are televised and memorialized so people that have questions can understand. Somebody that wants to be on parent group, a site council, a volunteer or prepare themselves for board candidacy um or enter into a discussion with administrator about some type of thing. People can come in informed and get the groundwork out of the way. What I want to talk about today, Ron, is let's run through a series of theoreticals. Are you ready? Yes. Uhuh. Sure. So, I am on the board. I am
018the senior board member. I've been here for a really long time and I have the best interest of the kids at heart and I'm not sure that everybody that is in the administrative team is making the right decisions. And so therefore, since I was the almost landslide winner by six votes in the community, I uh am going to put keep my nose to the ground on the campuses. I'm going to walk in. I'm going to, you know, pull the principal aside. I am going to walk into classrooms. I'm going to review what's going on. If I see a kid that I think isn't behaving properly, I'll go back to the office. Um, I'm going to make commentary about people, their performance. I'm going to concern myself with uh someone the service they're getting. Uh, I'm
019going to do a a cleanliness um review of the lunchroom. I'm I'm going to do whatever I want. I am the board member, Ron. So, let's say somebody doesn't like that, Ron. We know what privilege is. and uh uh what's the word immunity and correct me if I'm wrong but what that means is a reasonable expectation that if you are say a police officer a judge a schoolboard member and if you're if you're operating in what you think is by you know measure the average reasonable person keeping in your lane then at some point and somebody says something then I just say hey Ron You know, I think there's a misunderstanding here. Am I afforded protections when I do the kind of thing I just described to you as a board member just because of
020my privilege as a board member? I would say in most cases, no. Because you're what I think you're referring to is qualified immunity, the concept that the courts have uh developed over time. And that only applies when uh it was the the rule or the um uh statute or or the regulation was not clear or it hadn't been tested in the past and people weren't aware that they had violated a rule or regulation. But what you're talking about would be a violation of the board bylaws in the 9000 section. Um, there's a series of bylaws and I haven't checked yours specifically, but most districts have these bylaws that they receive from CSBA that basically talk about the authority of individual board member versus the board as a whole. And basically, authority rests with the board
021as a whole, not with individual board members. So, an individual board member doesn't have the authority to go onto a campus and tell administrators what to do. That's the superintendent's job. If there's a concern, the individual board members should talk to the superintendent uh and maybe bring it up at a board meeting depending on the seriousness of it and then the board can discuss it with the superintendent. Um but you know that superintendent's job is to direct the principal or to uh direct administrators at the school. Uh so board members shouldn't be uh getting involved with directly with student discipline. Uh because for example uh if you get involved with interacting with a student who might be misbehaving at a school and then later the administration decides to suspend or expel that student the expulsion
022could end up with the board ultimately and then now you you know create have a conflict of interest. So it's really not the board member's role to get directly involved in uh student discipline. The other example you gave was um I think had to do with facilities and whether they were safe or whether they were clean. Um that's also the responsibility of the administration. So if a board member happens to be on a campus and sees something that doesn't look right or that is unsafe or unclean, uh it should be reported to the superintendent and the superintendent uh can deal with it uh working with the principal. That's not to say that you couldn't mention it to the principal, but you shouldn't be directing the principal. Um, and you know, superintendent has the expertise to
023determine if it's a true safety issue. We have people on the staff who have facilities expertise uh who can deal with the issue and then the issue can be reported back to the board as a whole. But individual uh board members do not have the authority to direct staff and that's fairly well-known concept. So, if a board member did that uh and there was a lawsuit that resulted, I don't think a court would apply qualified immunity in most cases. I mean, there could be an unusual situation where the law is unclear and uh you know, the courts haven't ruled on it before, but uh in the examples that you gave, the law is pretty clear. Uh and I don't think a court would allow qualified immunity defense in those cases. So the qualified immunity part,
024if the district just says, "Hey FallsGraph, you're so far out of your lane here in what you've done." Could the district refuse to defend me in an illegal action? Possibly. Yeah. Could depending on the circumstances. Um it the statute says that if the board member or staff member was acting within the scope of their authority or the scope of their employment then uh the the um district can defend them. Uh so we'd have to look at the circumstances and then the insurance carrier would also look at the circumstances and they may say you were acting outside the scope of your employment or outside the scope of your authority therefore we're not going to provide a defense. So that you know that so there's two groups of people that would look at it. You'd have to
025you talk with your insurance carrier and then with legal counsel to review the circumstances. Hopefully it doesn't get to that point. Usually we uh boards usually ask for advice before it gets to that point. Good. So, so next, um, as a board member, um, do I have a basic obligation to when I'm around, uh, people in my official capacity, um, tell me what the expectation would be when I'm dealing with people who are, uh, uh, employees of the district or volunteers of the district is, do I get a free pass on typical HR our uh mandated behavior just because I'm a board member. Uh no. Uh you would have to act professionally. If you acted in a unprofessional manner, uh there could be potential liability. Um for example, we've had cases in the past in
026other districts where an employee accused a board member of uh harassment. um you know we had to investigate it and determine whether there was harassment and then report to the entire board uh and then uh you know the board has to decide what action to take. It's you know in those circumstances of course when you have an elected official you can't just terminate them or remove them from office. It would have to um you know have to be some type of recall process. So it's somewhat complicated, but in most cases, what's happened in the past is if there was a report to the entire board that indicated that the board member had harassed an employee or had acted unprofessionally and it was some serious misconduct. Usually the board member resigned under those circumstances. Okay. So
027um so let's just agree if we can that whoever is on a campus would realize that it's a professional workplace and that there are employees of the district there and the employees have uh the expectation the district will take reasonable steps to make it a professional workplace. There are human resources rules that go with all of that. And so, um, whether I'm a board member or a representative of the district going onto the campus, I would think it's a reasonable expectation that I would to the best of my abilities be aware and mimic the behaviors best uh practice behaviors that are typical at that site. Is that a fair statement? Yes. I mean you board members should always act in a professional manner when interacting with employees and you know if you act in an
028unprofessional manner you're creating potential liability and you know board members are not immune from u the you know legal issues or legal restraints on on behavior with respect to the workplace. board, board members, uh, administrators, employees, they're all bound by the same laws to have a safe workplace, a healthy workplace where there's no harassment. So, um, let's shift gears. Now, this is a tricky question. If I choose as a board member not to call the superintendent, not to notify my board president and I just decide I'm just going to ad hoc just show up at the district office or the schoolside office and I'm just going to go in there. What's the difference between me and any other member of the public? Is it not the same? Yeah, it's essentially the same uh legally in
029that um if if there's a problem, you should notify the superintendent and the superintendent can notify the board president. Um but any kind of HR problems or facility problems or student discipline problems uh that you might observe as a board member should be reported to the superintendent and then the superintendent uh would handle it in the appropriate manner and if if it's serious report it back to the board. Uh but a board member should not u be directing the principal what to do. Uh should not intervene in in an issue. uh it should be reported to the superintendent. Now that doesn't mean that you know the board member couldn't express an opinion and suggest to a principal for example that uh maybe this should be discussed with the superintendent or reported to the superintendent or
030I have concerns about you know uh the safety of this area of the playground for example uh maybe we should uh discuss it with the superintendent. If it's a suggestion, it's probably okay. But if it's a direction like um you will fix this uh you know uh sidewalk here on you know near the playground because I think it's dangerous and you don't talk to the superintendent about it or the board it doesn't you know or the board president then it's a problem. Um, typically if a parent complained about something like that, the principal should report it to the superintendent up the chain of command and then uh it would be dealt with. And typically an example like that, superintendent would work with assistant superintendent of business or director of business, whoever is in charge of
031facilities, they'd go out and take a look at the situation and make a recommendation to the superintendent and to the board as to what to do. you know, if it's real safety problem, they'd probably recommend fixing it, but it should go through the chain of command. It should go through uh the proper channels. So, let's dump off that I'm on the school board now. I'm a parent and I have a student there. the the what I'm trying to differentiate here is as a board member I don't think I have any more or less rights than the person who would visit the campus under a similar situation. So whether I'm a board member or not, it strikes me that the behavior uh expectation will be the same for all visitors. Yeah, I would. I mean, legally
032the board member is in the same position as any parent or member of the community. You know, if a member of community, for example, sees a safety problem on the playground, um they aren't going to, you know, they should advise the principal and the principal would deal with it up the chain of command. Board members should do the same thing. Um but obviously since a board member uh is for you know would know the superintendent being on the board you know the communication would be more likely directly to the superintendent. Uh but legally the behavior should be the same. Any visitor any visitor you see a problem report it to the principal and then let the principal deal with it. So let's let's bunch this up at the end and then I'll move into the
033next area. So what we're saying is if you have board members or people who think by some position they hold gives them some right to walk onto the campus uh do whatever they want act however they want and just be uh errant in any way they want hiding behind some position that's not appropriate any visitor regardless of position or not position uh I think would be expected to look at what the behavior behavioral norms are with the reporting chain uh rules of cander and common courtesy and especially the kind of modern expectations that we that require HR directors. So in other words the board uh policy about volunteerism which volunteers are still visitors to the campus. Is that correct? Yes, they would be visitors. They're typically fingerprinted and screened so that uh they can have
034contact with children. Um and you know we we know that they haven't been arrested for any serious offenses that would make them unfit to work with children. So when they're volunteers there's some extra restrictions. Um also you know visitors uh are required to register you know and explain their reason on campus. And usually uh we don't let uh third parties pe non-parents just wander around a school campus particularly in elementary school. If you know whatever their business is they state their business they meet with the principal or whoever they're meeting with a teacher and you know they're usually with a staff member. They don't usually just wander around. Um you know and typically board even board members are escorted around. They're not usually just allowed to wander around. you know, I mean, it varies a
035little bit, but um you you know, typically, you know, everybody is, you know, should be overseen uh when they come onto a school campus. They shouldn't just be able to just wander around without any supervision at all. Is there any is there any concern when somebody's wandering around and making free rain that you know things like confidentiality, student records, behaviors, that kind of thing are are are HIPPA, FURPA, those types of things that those concerns increase when you don't have a good reign on visitors visitor policy and the function of everyone and why they're there. It could happen if if you're not supervising people on the campus. Um, you know, for example, the example you give that visitors shouldn't be uh disclosing confidential student information. Uh, you know, if there's being if for example, if
036the principal is escorting that person around the campus, it's less likely to happen. And uh you know if if the person does disclose some information the principal can advise the person to stop um if you just let people on their own wander around then you you don't know what they're saying to other people u and so that that could create a problem and if if it becomes a pattern if it becomes a serious issue there could be some potential liability um on the part of the school district. So, for example, if you have a parent who's going around talking about other people's children, um, you know, their discipline issues, their special ed issues, whatever it might be to whoever will listen and it's not stopped and the parent finds out about it whose child is
037confidential information is being disclosed, they they could uh go after the school district, sue the school district, and there could be potential liability. Thank you, Ron. Let's move into the next area. What expectation do employees have when it comes to um not being um impeded upon by visitors, even up to schoolboard members? Well, I mean, I think the expectations of employees are that they're able to do their job without interference. Uh you know, they shouldn't be stopped from doing their job. that doesn't mean that they couldn't have a short conversation with somebody with a visitor. Um, you know, but I mean that shouldn't be an extended period of time or they shouldn't be stopped from doing their job or or told how to do their job uh unless it's their supervisor. So, uh yeah, I
038think the expectation is is that uh you know they'd be allowed to do their job in the appropriate way. If it becomes a pattern uh it could develop into harassment. I mean, if it's constantly happening, then a person comes onto the campus and interferes with somebody's ability to do their job, then you're appro, you know, you're getting to that uh level that it could be harassment. Ron, what level of protection do volunteers have? Let's say that I am helping um let everybody know on enrollment day at one of the campuses that we have a parent group and here's our meetings and um you know we have our table set up and some parent or visitor comes in and just accost someone and treats them improperly and and they are a recognized uh volunteer of the
039district. Let's say they're wearing spirit wear and everyone knows that they hold a physician with one of the support groups and they're just there helping kids and helping the campus. Do those people have protections from the district? If they're unreasonably treated by visitors to the campus, yeah, if they make the school district aware of it, if the school district's aware of it, there is potential liability. they their expectation is that they would be treated in a courteous professional manner. Uh so if somebody's coming onto the campus and swearing at them or using vulgar language or threatening them and it's reported to the school district and the school district doesn't take steps to stop it, uh then there's potential liability. So they could be uh recognized as a representative of the district acting professionally and therefore
040have right to representation when those rights are violated. Um yeah depending on the circumstances I mean you let's say you have a volunteer who's being harassed by another volunteer. So the the volunteer who's being harassed, if they don't report it to the district, then there's not much liability because the school district didn't know about it. But once the school district knows about it, once they report it to the school district, then the duty of the school district is to stop it, to put a stop to it. And if the school district doesn't put a stop to it and take reasonable steps to stop it, then there's potential liability. So that volunteer could sue the school district for not stopping the other volunteer from harassing or interfering with uh the you know what the volunteer was
041doing. Uh so hypothetically there could be you know some issues. So um I think that concludes my questions. Um the questions I've asked you, Ron, would you um go over uh the policies um the last update um with the superintendent administrative staff and make sure that the idea of all that is captured in there and that we don't have any holes in in those expectations. Okay. Sure. So I could check the policies on liability defending employees. Okay. Uh the bylaws for board members. Uh yeah, I will I'll check all of those. Thank you very much, Ron, staff. So that um takes care of everything that we had to discuss today. So we need to decide when our next meeting will be. Is there a desire to have one before the end of the school year?
042So in two weeks at the next before the next board meeting or do you want to wait until August for our next I think that's a staff decision. Um I will um report out tonight that we had a brief discussions about bringing uh the bullying, the mobile communication device and alcohol and other drugs language back for a final board vote. And that we briefly went over some basic housekeeping expectations when it comes to visitor and volunteer policies. Very good. So as the need arises, I like it that people are getting ahead of these policy updates and that people understand that they come to us as with through over oversight agencies and all those types of things. Okay. So Dr. um August for the next one. Yes. I mean I would say that you know we
043have our June meeting you know in the books and be pointing out this evening like Mr. Falls mentioned. So perhaps the next one before Do you want 14th or 28th? Whoever's conducive to let's get everybody off the ground and opening the door. So, um um what I would say is my priority would be if there's something that's going through the subcommittees, let's say something starts off in the facilities and finance committee like the power issue and then my understanding is it came up to the education subcommittee. And it goes from we can't prioritize the generator right now, which is one thing to the education uh side of the house saying um to shut down the school as many times as we have this year and not to have a clear policy makes it really hard
044for a continuum of education. So you're getting these two and three and four day gaps here and there and and those are two very different things. And then when stuff like that gets fatted, it's healthy for everybody to have their opinion professionally on what's important, their priorities. I think at that time that stuff can flow into here and then it goes out into open discussion and so everybody feels that their side is being uh represented and and the right thing is being done. There's nothing worse than being a commuter parent that uh doesn't know when your child is going to be dropped off. There's child care issues and all that kind of thing. So I like it to be more predictable when possible than um somebody just deciding at the last second because in this
045case it was the power company that was calling you after the power was turned off. So that's just an example how to use these subcommittees and and uh I think that was their idea of it all. Thank you sir. So with that we will adjourn the uh polic management subcommittee meeting at 5:48. Thank you everyone for participating. Thank you, Ron. Thank you. Have a good evening. You as well.