3/17/2025 - English - Chula Vista Elementary School District Special Board Meeting

001e e e we now reconvene to open session with all board members present close session announcements will be made by the clerk on government code section 54957 Public Employee appointment tile principal 2 for cor corki McMillan Elementary school on motion by member Delia Dominguez cantes seconded by member kin Ramirez Dominguez the board approved the employment of jackon Gracia as principal to corki McMillan Elementary School by the following vote the A's were five no zero congratulations government code section Public Employee appointment title principal to Greg Rogers Elementary School on motion by member Karen Ramirez Dominguez seconded by member Francisco Tamayo the board approved the appointment of Andrew fauler as acting principal 2 until June 30th 2025 by the following vote the A's were five no zero thank you [Applause] the Open session of the special meeting

002of the Chula Vista Elementary School District Board of Education is now in order welcome everyone all members e oral Communications oral Communications on posted items the oral Communications portion of this special meeting provides the public with an opportunity to address the board on items included in the special meeting agenda only persons wishing to be heard May attend in person and to complete a request to be heard card and submit it to the recording secretary before the start of the meeting speakers are requested to limit their remarks to 3 minutes and speak in a respectful and professional manner the board shall limit the total time for public input on each topic to 20 minutes with board consent the president may increase or decrease the time allowed for public comments depending on the number of persons wishing

003to be heard no board action can be taken there are no speakers a review of the brown act ethics and roles and responsibilities Dr Reyes yes so we have today a presentation by um uh one of our attorneys in regards to a couple of things one is the brown act two is ethics and three is uh there also responsibilities of board members now it is typical that we have this kind of a training when we have one or more board new board members in this Cas we have two brand new board members this uh trusty Tolson and trusty ramz Dominguez and so but it's also a good refresher for the rest of the board so uh evening you look familiar that's good hopefully that's a good thing my name is Jonathan Pearl I'm with the

004LA of danis Waller Kelly here in San Diego and it's my honor to be with you tonight and with cabinet and your team and members of other employees that have chose to learn a little bit about the brown neck so it's nice to be with you all I appreciate you're letting me sit at the table with you I really I really wanted to be forget about them I really wanted to be a discussion um and I hope you'll have uh the Comfort level to ask questions maybe get an answer wrong um because the brown X's actually tricky and some of these some of these um Concepts that we're talking about are tricky as well so hopefully together we can we can learn um you have two things in front of you hopefully you have um

005the packet that you're looking at which includes some background materials about high functioning boards and the the role of the board the role of the superintendent the role of employees and how those all sort of inter with each other and then the one pager is not about Jula Vista Elementary but it's what I've made up in my warped sense of real reality as far as like possible scenarios that might arise um and I thought maybe we'll grapple with those as well along the way um so that's what I'd like to do Dr Rees and I spoke um before being here actually number of days before actually being here and this is not the end all Beall for ethics training there's a new law that requires two hours on really that primarily Alone um so I'll

006share some resources or I'll come back if I if I do well in this audition we'll see how it goes um but maybe there's an online opportunity for you but where you can get that state mandated training as well um so that's that's what we'd like to do little bit of background about me I have been practicing for about 30 years a little more than 30 years I started in Chicago um I've done private sector labor law um actually I started in education law um and then thought oh I want to do private sector and work for big corporations and as soon as I started doing that I missed I missed education law so my wife and one of our daughters at the time um moved to San Francisco we were there for a few

007years and then the firm had an office down here and I volunteered to move down to San Diego I'm very happy that we did but I do a lot of work with governing boards I do a lot of Labor negotiations a lot of personnel work as well um we do some work with Chula Vista Elementary School District I I do look familiar because I was at least one meeting uh that you had in the past um so you know that's that's I'm really happy to be here so is there anything before we start that maybe you're hoping to get out of this or or where I can focus certain remarks to address or should we just plow ahead if you rem mind so sure so after this training so this the first it's kind of

008like part one then the other part the what he mentioned about the required ethics training and that could be online so I could provide you with a link and the training for that you can do that on your own but another component which we would like to do uh hopefully sometime in April towards the end of April beginning of May is another training that deals with governance which which means that so how you as a body govern so yes you have the rules the roles and responsibilities but you also have um a way to for example way to the best way to ask questions the the best way to to do followups and how do you go govern as a body um and ideally you end up uh at some point developing as a board

009you develop a kind of like a board members handbook or a governance handbook so it'll be the the next one okay all right um um if you look at the big packet um and you look at the table of contents what I've done is I've established all I've established I've included certain things about the board how the goverance team works I sort of picked certain board bylaws new board members you know that's your bylaws are in the 9,000 section of of all the board policies and it's it's how the board supposed to behave and conduct itself it's pretty prescriptive it's pretty uh specific as to what's what's required so I thought we would we would grapple with some of those things and then and not at the end but maybe in the middle and I

010don't know whether we want to take a break at some point we'll see how we feel but then we could go into some some deep Dives um on the brown and hopefully leave with a good understanding and it doesn't matter how experienced you are as a board member I I do the experienced board member training for csba um periodically and you know it's all people are always learning something new um it's it's it's it's not that easy so that's where I that's where I want to focus um and I I'll begin I'll begin substantively with this in my mind all these governance issues and the brown Act is an exercise in self-discipline and it's kind of counterintuitive you see two board members in the parking lot and they're having a discussion you know each other

011you know maybe the superintendent is there too with those two board members your natural natural inclination as a community member as a person who cares about what's going on here is to join those two board members but you have to be mindful of and we'll get into it in more detail that just walking over to those two board members not the superintendent because he's not covered by the brown act he's not subject to it at all but he cares deeply about it because he's got to make sure that his board functions at a high level when it comes to the brown but that one board member who moves over to speak with those other two and if you're talking about something that happened in the meeting that's a meeting for brown NE purposes and it's

012technically ille it's legal illegal and it's a violation of the brown act when you're deciding you know what gets discussed in closed session and you have your agenda descriptions and something else comes up and you start making a a um a comment about a related issue but it's not specific to what you're speaking about or supposed to be speaking about in Clos session under the brown act and you depart from that item very easily you know you can have a violation of the Browning so I use that word self-discipline because it really is about how you choose to conduct yourselves and if everybody's Mindful and tries to to be mindful of what the rules are and and what their role is we can prevent a lot of the you know Brown act violations from happening

013um and I just think that's a key part of all of this and not just the brown act but also I think governance because a lot of the things relative to governance might be might be counterintuitive as well you all ran I'm assuming because you wanted to do something you wanted to be more active in your community with the district and all those kinds of things well if you look at this first slide and the inverted triangles and yes I took this from csba but give them full credit for it you know the very tip of the triangle is about the Govern govern governance team right which is the board and I would say it includes the superintendent the CBO other members of cabinet as well that govern the district but they play a strategic

014role a Visionary role as far as District business and operations are concerned it's much more at a policy level um but then when you look at the other things that actually are in that triangle the Tactical role the planning Logistics articulation the day-to-day implementation that falls to the superintendent and his team of professionals that really are supposed to carry that out and again I think I think that that's counterintuitive in some ways or it's it goes against maybe what your what Your being is about which probably you see yourselves as problem solvers as wanting to get your hands dirty and get involved in solving a particular issue but these these laws and how leadership is set up as far as being a board member it does it does tend to control that or limit that

015ability to do that um when the board oversteps not this board but when the when a board oversteps and they start getting involved in Personnel actions or in the business department actions the label is oh they're micromanagement board members are micromanaging well what is the role what is the proper role for the board and I think Dr a when you say oh we need we hope that one day we'll have a handbook right you don't have one now but you'd like to have a handbook as far as how you will govern how you will lead I think that is where you also begin to Grapple with some of those ideas that how is this Chul Vista board going to function going to operate going to extend itself and going to limit itself um based on

016on the nature of the office that you hold so you know that's that's the triangle um and then on page two of your material you you can read these in in great detail um after we're done and it's not the Alpine School District here in San Diego County it's actually from Utah but you know here here are just some some samples or things that they wrote about reminders to board members I already have a question on number one fantastic let's hear it so works with a superintendent and business administrator everything I read tells me I have one employee right so where's the an come in and business administrator and maybe that's funky to Utah because I would that's what you just recited is the standard line you know and really it is it is that

017the board has in your and your bylaws say it the board has Total Control in the hiring process and the selection of the superintendent and that is the individual that you choose to lead and then everyone except the superintendent is really subject to management and control is just strong of a word but you know what I mean so so I think I'm misunderstanding the purpose of this insert right you're not okay you're you're you're raising a question that maybe that maybe that's a misstatement of how you might want to operate in a lot of districts though when there are Financial issues because I did say that it's the superintendent and cabinet that are part of the Govern governance team it's the superintendent who I think is the conductor of the orchestra and decides what which

018pieces he's going to bring in for either Solo or for certain harmonies that he's trying to figure out how to manage so I can definitely see when we're talking about negotiations and we're trying to figure out the financial impact of something or you're or you're considering whether to close a school open a school build a school remodel a school I could see that the CBO would be a key player in all of that so I do see that um so it's it's the notion of team and how that team will Define itself depending on the particular issue is a little bit it could change number two when board members hear of issues from patrons staff they should take them directly to the superintendent and they don't take it to staff members to solve the problem

019themselves there should be no this I hear all the time there should be no surprises in a public meeting for either the superintendent board president fellow board members or staff that's a tall order I think I don't know how realistic that is things could come up in public comment somebody might articulate a different idea but it's a tall order and we've all we've all heard that cliche no surprises but it is something we're striving for well how do you avoid surprises how do you as board members what's what's your prep process for for board meetings one-on ones one-on ones or yeah and if there's ever questions we ask at that at the time of the oneon-one right and that's an opportunity for the superintendent to work with the individual board member review what's going to

020be on the agenda answer any questions that you might have so that you're ready to go and you really do feel briefed and there could be questions that come up during that and you would ask those questions might be additional information your bylaw says superintendent gathers all of that information and either provides it to the requesting individual or to the full board most situations it's the full board when somebody gets information everyone should get that information then you're then you're you're making decisions based on the same information okay be prepared to attend your meetings asking questions rather than making a demand that's number six because no single board member has authority over the staff or superintendent now you might be thinking well maybe well no not over the superintendent because it takes a majority to

021have authority over the superintendent is this being recorded okay number 11 actually let's look at that other page before we get to uh number 11 look at at the hypothetical the second one again this isn't about your District these are things I just make up based on other not yours so Ash Ashley's a student this is uh everybody have it this is the one page oh the one page yeah the one pager Ashley is a friend of a friend of a trustee of a trustees child and the students going through challenging times and Ashley asked to live with the trustee for a month to get back on track Ashley's a current student she turned 18 last December for whatever reason Ashley Ashley can't live her mother or father are not available to house her to

022take care of her and trusty ex says come stay with me what would you do if you were advising truste EX in that situation not get involved not get involved I don't think it would be a wise mhm a wise yeah decision not a wise decision you're assuming this child is in 12th grade yeah yeah they're their 12th grad are still 18 years old but but in a high school and I know it's an Elementary District that we're dealing with here I mean some some of us might have a natural impulse to want to help that particular student that you know 18 still relatively young but if you chose to be involved in help that 18yar old for whatever reason then you have to be going in there with your eyes wide open that you're

023not going to be able to make any decisions or partake in anything that might have a direct effect on this child because now you have that connection right but but is it is it is it going in with your eyes wide open or is it just like that's that's beyond my ability to do because of my position as a trustee I can't do that well I would if it was somebody that I felt let's say was a family member an 18-year-old I would resign from my board seat to help that child butning because personal because I want to be able if I'm taking that child in that 18-year-old because I want to advocate for that child okay and that's me I don't about anybody else but that's me but you see that you can't necessarily

024do too both at the same time we're assuming we're in a high school board yeah yeah why we examine child like real life situations why don't we go there instead because we're spending time on something that that's not what we're right but it's totally it because what you what you identified was that if you there might be this impulse if it's if it's a close family member or somebody else that you felt that you needed to do that then you did not see your responsibilities as a trustee as being compatible or you might have a conflict and you recognize that you'd have to make a choice but then right here you have three board members that have children in the elementary school district right now yeah right maybe they should answer so how does it

025work how does it work right so that's my question like I don't how it take in children I brought them out and they're in this District so what's the right thing right should I re should I take them out of school try to say I'm trying to figure out number two question are we trying to say that I think that when we take a position as a board member we have an understanding that there are certain situations we have to recuse ourselves from or not be involved because of the liability that we might be under as a board member right and I think the natural impulse might be to help whether this child is 9 years old or and unfortunately things cannot be done just by us anymore but if this is a student in

026the district make it a 9-year-old make it a 10-year-old someone who needs some extra help of some kind and you want to provide help to that child there too it's not for the individual board member to decide what services are to be provided you could be the squeaky wheel and ask the superintendent what are we doing for for ashle and ask questions of that and try to figure out on the staff level what's happening but for and this actually this actually was a real situation you know and and it does raise lots of issues as to as just staying in the lane dealing with the conflicts finding the right way to help which might not be you inviting that individual into your home but you finding out what services might exists that could be provided

027by the district that would make a difference that's really the point and that's really your your bylaws your ethics talk about understanding what your role and then I'm trying to overlay on to that this notion of of self-discipline trying to figure out so going back to my question I have children in this District how does that translate for me to be able to stay within the scope of the brown act yes and and the answer is that you have every right as a parent and a trustee to do what any other parent would do in this District you can attend a performance your bylaws say it the governance documents that I'm going you can go if your if your child's active in a sport an after school activity a play whatever it might be you

028have every right to attend just like anyone else your bylaws also say though that you should have a certain sensitivity that because of your position position you don't want to cross that line where you're not acting as a parent you're really acting as an advocate or you're using the power that you have as a trustee it's self-discipline I think and maybe I oversimplify it but I I want to because that is the real point I want to make one of them so does that answer your question so if I raise the concerned what's the concern the school food mhm I'm a parent but I'm also a trustee you know right so can I come into the superintendent like you know like how do I how do I make it so I I want to advocate

029for my child because I know I want the best for her and whatever is happening um but also I want to make sure that I'm not overstepping on my other role mhm so can I address the superintendent can I should I go through the school like how does it work specifically in that scenario um I would say because of the delicate situation where the natural progression would be a parent should go to the principal first um but I would say because of your position it would be better for you to speak to the super intention about that and then he might tell you go to the principal or you might say let me talk to the principal either way it is a delicate position um but it's it's it's one we have to Grapple with

030okay and I think that's and it's not just it's not just the parent role you know I've got other things in those hypos somebody's upset with ex employee and they call you to tell you the concerns that that they have you know what what what do you do with that you know and really what what these governance documents talk you about is find the right staff resource through the superintendent to deal with the particular issue it's really what it's about another question but I might need to wait yeah what I'm sorry it's because I felt awkward having my back too there was people here that were not staff but they're gone now so I think they were that's no there was two parents par was there another question um so I yeah so I do

031get those emails of whatever situation you know I bring them to the superintendent um what am I allowed to respond back if there's any followup because I want to make sure I'm being responsible with and I do reply I will consult with the superintendent but after I consulted am I allowed to say this is what the superintendent said or should I just assume it already understands that I did what I said I would do you know um so I just want to make sure again I stay within the scope but I also am responsible to the parent the teacher whoever is reaching out to me to say hey this is what I heard from the superintendent so that you were responsive and cared and yes because that's been the scenario but I still like I

032want to make sure I'm again stay within the scope stay within what I can share um so that's my question what can be shared and I think my take would be when you have that conversation I'll I'll stop pointing at Dr when you have that conversation with a superintendent it should be part of the conversation okay I'm raising this particular concern there's some Merit to this someone needs to follow up you know Dr superintendent do you want me to respond to that to that um person who sent me the email or will you do it or are you going to ask one of the people on your team whether it's the principal or District level administrator that they should handle it I think that's a a should be part of the calculus in handling you

033know constituents being responsive as a human being right and as a board member so people know it just didn't get dropped because if you don't send out a reply cuz you're afraid you're stepping out of your Lane and this superintendent imaginary you know didn't know that he was obligated to do anything about it then the member of the public feels like they were disrespected yeah so is there and Dr as anybody if you have a different approach you know let me know what you think as far as I have a question with regard to inadvertently sharing information in that situation that we're not supposed to share right that's what I'm I'm I'm trying to be very careful especially with Personnel matters things that go to Legal because a lot of times the public wants to

034know things that quite honestly we can't share it's true and if you did bring a Personnel issue so you know an a temporary employee or a probationary employee was non- reelected and a parent can't believe it because that teacher is wonderful and did a great job and that might very well be right and then you go talk to the superintendent and you might learn you're absolutely right when it comes to a Personnel matter as to the reason for the non-re elction or any other the circumstances that's something where you really can't give much detail and it's frustrating because I write those statements okay and what we usually say is because this this relates to a Personnel matter I'm limited as far as the information that I can share with you but there is a reply

035that is a reply it is it sounds just like well I couldn't say anything sorry like no I don't think we I don't think we want to I don't think that's good governance yes want to make sure to use legal term to blow off the right but it is it's recognizing where you have limits uh it's a bargaining issue you know where you're negotiating with certificated or classified employees and you know because you go to get briefed um you know about what's happening in negotiations well what what do you think the answer is on that one I I mean barain an issue well even a little deeper it's a it's a uh it's a bargaining issue okay and we have we've the board has um assigned a team okay you know led by Jason Romero

036to um bargain with X Union y Union and I I recommend that you deal directly with them that's the best case what about we get a lot of emails to the entire board and then one of us responds and so it we the rest of us have to and and they accidentally hit reply all right so if we get an email all five of us um if I'm responding I make sure to respond individually but sometimes we've had where someone has accidentally hit reply all and that to me seems a little bit dangerous as well right and that we'll and I just don't respond anymore right and and who and who was you you all five get the email and then you're the president so you're supposed to be the spokesperson for the board so

037I would give you more deference to reply on behalf of the board but individual board member feels like oh well I'd like to say something too and they really shouldn't because who's speaking for the if it went to all five then we need to figure out who the spokesperson is for the board is that a is is your is it in your handbook actually it is in your bylaw in your bylaws that the the president of the board is default sounds disrespectful but they're they are the ones who provide the official response so even though you know as a board member you want to be responsive that seems like a natural good way to be as a board member but before you you know type out your reply I think you need to pause and

038let the president um either reply or give the superintendent a chance to say you know what this is a hot issue or this is a litigation issue or something else please number one do not reply at all but please let me have a chance to figure out an appropriate good response to this question because I was going to be my next question about that if the president of the board is either replying or should we all So based on trusty ug being the president we would assume that she is taking it to the superintendent and we don't have to take that action right now Dr Reus is going to have a very full inbox but I also but I also think it's good practice you're assuming that the president um forwarded it to the superintendent

039you know what just forward it yes erase it it's okay if he gets it five times that's okay that that's that's a thoughtful board that's a high functioning board if they have the self-discipline not to just take it on their shoulders to reply even though they're not the designated representative do that but at a minimum they're going to make sure that the superintendent knows and that's your employee you know that the board expects to be accountable and to handle that appropriately okay or another one okay we get emails to the five of the board and to the superintendent so do we take that same chain again do we just let it if it's being directed to everybody so we're assuming that Dr Reus is receiving it because it's addressed to him do we again forward

040it to him but he already has it or um can I put you on the spot a little bit what what would you do if you're copied on the email what are some things that you do so so so what I would do is is uh I would recommend the the individual trustee to to respond uh receipt or you know thanks for your email I received it um I will forward it to the superintendent uh I will respond to to the individual I will not copy the board because then I'm copy I'll respond to the board I mean to the person usually depending on what it is I say all think for concerns Etc uh I will um depending on what issue it is I will make sure that so and so follows up with

041you to address it so I acknowledge it and then I copy the person let's say it's uh something with u student services and I would copy Sharon Casey and say uh assistant superintendent of student services comma shanon Casey will be following up with you and then she'll follow up so so and you can just respond to the person saying I acknowledge that I receive and I'm I'm okay if the superintendent uh replies to the person who sent the email and says I've asked Sharon Casey to follow up thanks for your email and he does if it's just that if he blind copies The Bard you know BCC okay um and then you know right I think that happened once and then everybody apped to everybody and that was remember yeah that was not good sorry

042it was CC okay CC you know when I get emails I I thank you for your email I am in receipt yeah of your email I am CC Dr Reyes for follow up perfect that's what I right and that and that gives Dr Rees and then if it's a little higher level I include out a cuz I know he's bombarded with lots of emails cuz said will go and she's like triple bombarded with well I include our in any email that I have even in my personal life okay um because then I know it'll get taken care of so okay so those are those are some of the reminders that still on page two deliberately spending time here number 13 hold in confidence the personal conversations that you have with the superintendent fellow board members

043staff and other school personnel and what we're going to see when we go into some brownx stuff issues is an individual one board member has the right can speak with another only one other board member and there's not a problem with the brown act so long as it's two right that's less than a majority of the board but but if you go and you two had a conversation and then you tell the president what you spoke about either by email or in a ver in a conversation that's a brown act so you know that's and and I think this point so it's it's one thing it's about the board but it's also you know it's it's understanding what is something that is shared for public consumption what something um just for personal internal reasons as

044well so things to think about I have a question sure so I I we we re well we didn't receive but we saw like we were written on regarding on like a journal or a publication or whatever newspaper um is that something that can be discussed with more than one person like it is about the board but it's not you know it's not within it's not an agenda item it's nothing it's something somebody wrote about all of us about the board let's yeah okay so is that something that can be discussed um with with more than one board member so openly basically or with more than one if it is about um a recipe or a great place to travel break okay then yes why because it's social it's it's it's has nothing to do

045with the the legal term is the subject matter jurisdiction of the board but if it's about attendance postco behavioral issues the best curriculum to use for language arts those are those are squarely within the boards again subject matter jurisdiction self-discipline has to kick in you you can't talk the same way about that amongst these four other indiv idual here okay um because it is it's it could be it's a brown act kind of communication okay just let me be more clear some blogger just said a bunch of trash about us we can talk about that right no we can't talk about it what's he saying about oh he's horrible she can be possibly horrible and we're horrible and who knows if she's horrible and I'm horrible we're going to get to it right isn't that

046about us they're working they're working on M they're trying to figure out the only one they know it's me super horrible here's here's the the other one are the definition of a meeting you don't need to that's just like media some blogger that just printed it is here's the but but I'm glad you brought it came out and I can say this right cuz can I the guy who prints it is puts it is like he said shame on him he's on a on an umbrella he is the board president for the County Board of Education and he feels that he can talk about us well I can just talk about him too well don't shame how isn't there some legal ramifications on his part depends if it truly is lialis or slander or defamatory

047but you're public figure but he's speaking as an he's speaking as an I don't even know the facts so let's deal with the hypothetical even though we're juicy while change all the names but here's here's the reason why lawyer guy is concerned if you want to talk about that amongst others more than one person because the definition of a meeting under the brown Act is when you have more than a major a majority so three people in the same place same time location to hear discuss deliberate or act on an item you we'll get there it's page 23 but that that's not an agenda item though right doesn't matter okay doesn't matter because remember that phrase I keep using it's within the subject mer matter jurisdiction so someone's criticizing board members as individuals well if

048they're if it's going into the why based on a certain decision that is based on your subject it's they're picking on something that you're governing about and no you don't have I have a question I won't give you the lawyerly it depends answer no I have a question so there wasn't a lot written about me but there was actually jealous no yeah come no um just just kidding but um there was actually something wrting about my religion it was said that I'm a Christian fundamentalist and quot um and I make a comment about that because I know that I have a right to believe in whatever I want but it is depicted as a negative tradeit as a board member so is there something so dealing in the hypothetical realm individual board members do not

049surrender their right to speak as individual board members okay and if someone is attacked we have to figure out is the respon coming from the board which it might be appropriate depending on the circumstance and what's said about one particular board member so that might be a response where the whole board wants to get involved in addressing a particular issue but there also is a way if to find a lane and I think that's where you go through the superintendent because the superintendent's going to call maybe legal or you're going to handle it through a public information officer whatever the case might be to appropriately address it so I'm not here to say that individual board members lose their right to free speech they they you haven't lost your right to the protections of the

050First Amendment but we have to handle it in a responsible way we have to be thoughtful and not kneejerk and the way I think is the way to be thoughtful is to slow down and you make the superintendent and the president sort of The Gatekeepers okay and I think it leads to better responses and a better functioning board overall yeah and we haven't responded at all like we we're not really we're not talking about real hypothetically we're just talking about hypothetic in such a case that would be make some stuff up for your for our questions yes all right so looking at at page three and again we can we can we can study um all of these these are questions that I came up with my firm came up with sort of a self

051assessment as how we function as a government governance team and I'll let you just read them to yourself I travel around the state a lot sometimes doing this but sometimes just going to board meetings I know I I know places like this they exist not everywhere every district is different every board's different but these to me as a person who either on the far right side of the Das you know at a certain meeting or in the in the you know the area reserved for the public I know when I when I see these kinds of things in action and I think they're good things to strive for for the governance team just one question number four yeah when do you recommend that to be done um so so yeah because now you have um

052two new board members yes um and you so your first meeting was what in December January January um and now we're in March yeah I think it's I think it's high time and that's that's what I mentioned about creating some kind of a handbook governance handbook uh so we'll have another workshop and then we can have start working on it's a collaborative work it's teamwork yeah or is it the values of the board you know core values for the board that are sort of fundamental we use that with bargaining our firm does you know what are our values for bargaining and they're generated by the board to guide the team far as how they're supposed to conduct themselves as the board's agents in in bargaining with labor groups um but yeah I mean those are

053whether it's a handbook or mission statements or all kinds of tool tools but I I think I think that's what you're striving for all right more not just asking questions but but this one goes to what are we agreeing to do as a governance team as individual board members as a collective of of a board I'll let you read this one so let's let's look I mean I I think these are these two pages speak a lot to me me but number four on on page four um the board members and the superintendent will discuss and understand their respective roles I mean I guess I look to the more veteran board members what does that mean I mean my little comment to myself was well what are they what are those roles here and sometimes

054they're they're different in in different places but how would how would you help the the newer the new board members to understand the distinctions in your experience it's a hard question are we going to defer to you or defer to me the president all the people that's no um it's well he he's been on board's longest I think it's a matter of understanding the role of kind of being a a a conduit to the superintendent and not tackling the problem ourselves um and not going on to sites and do you know holding meetings and saying well I'm going to take on your like be an advocate for your site and take it to the superintendent we can listen to people but then we we really have no power in implementation that implementation is the super

055attendant role you know bringing him the concerns that we've heard about and trusting that he has the expertise in the field he has a doctorate right and that he takes H and puts into practice his professional expertise um and not not going what I say Rogue and um and you know it's great to be out and great to do things on sites it's great to hear from people but ultimately any of the implementation leadership comes from Dr Reyes that he may delegate to particular cabinet members any other thoughts to to build on that sure um obviously we all have uh passions and we're Advocates right for different reasons and we always need to remind ourselves that the board hat never is taken off so when we walk into a school we walk into a meeting

056we walk into CPO for that sakes um you're being looked at as a board member and people will walk to you and bring you problems bring you questions bring you ideas um and while many of those ideas are great at the end of the day we're policy makers so we live in the policy realm the imple how things get done through him and his team this team um so understanding that we defer things to him and then he gets to work on that and then if there's changes that we need to make on the policy level that's where we can start discussing ideas on what policies and that's where we can go and look at all the policies that we have especially the ones that govern the board on how better can we operate as

057a team right because at the end of the day it's not what I want or what Lucy wants it's what the board wants and it's also what's Allowed by the law because we can't just make something up because we like it and we have a passion about it and we're really passionate about this we have to we have to work within the policy has to work within the law right I mean and we've got to consider all of that in the policym so I just wanted to add F back on that but as far as you think there's power and I mean that in a good sense but there's power in the oneon-one the one to one that you have with the superintendent and if he's if you're hearing themes you know from one two

058three different trustees that that does you know that that does that is a role that board members play in actually raising issues sharing vision and then when the superintendent hears that from either all board members or there seems to be some kind of consensus building I do think that drives you know drives the agenda and pushes the organization in certain ways and you do have the ability to do that through the one-on ones um and two on- ones if that's what you do from time to time as well so I see that as being so so um to pick one more of these number 10 on uh page four still board members recognize that statements made in public by individual board members may be seen as the position of the board board will decide on

059issues where a single spokesperson might be in the best interest of the district I just want to underline what I think um president nugar said very well that we have to figure out who the spokesperson actually is on a particular issue and I think we need to be careful how we speak or delay speaking until we can really figure out the appropriate response and it's not just crisis management it's it could it could be things that are positive but you want to make sure that the statement of the board is crafted is coming from the board that it's official and it's not just everyone throwing in their two cents which could be flip question sure social media yeah so how does a personal social media cannot be depicted as this is the board whatever any

060of us shares compared States is that also included should you know we're going to get to there there's some interesting rules about social media especially where the social media site is quote unquote public MH right you're talking about your personal whatever people use I almost said Facebook but I think that's past I don't know if people are using that whatever it is if it's public and it's open there was a case out of Powe most recently and if if in fact um it is public and and let's say people are being in that case people were being critical people were using um making all sorts of allegations and assertions and a decision was made actually to um omit those people to block those people from participating on that social media that case went up to

061the Supreme Court it's now been remanded back to the 9th circuit to figure out what is the appropriate standard but what we do know about social media is that you have to it's another one of those matters of self-discipline there could be public social media sites where two or more of you are on the site mhm and what I've been talking about is well three is a majority in the social media context you can't you can't even reply directly to one other member it's a different standard that applies two board members on an open public social media site communicating with each other or a thumbs up and I'm giving away my hypos now but a thumbs up in in reply uh to something that you wrote that's a problem on social media again got to

062we got to figure out how to control ourselves right to follow these important laws um one thing I wanted to add is that that hat like trusty Theo said that hat never comes off and so sometimes when you are responding to someone in person they don't see you even even if they're your best friend they don't when you're responding in that way on a board matter or something they've brought to you they're looking at you as a board member and so and that and like you are speaking for the board um it was one of the one of the um when you're having those one-on-one conversations you have to be very careful to say you know the have that standard response ready I'll take it to the superintendent I'll look into it because anything you

063say they're going to see you as the board and and it's not about how you see yourselves I'm down to earth I'm just me I'm just you know I'm just this person I'm just a a Community member if they it's about perspective I always say this if they perceive you as a board member even though they're not saying that to you the next thing you know is well the board says this and it was really just having a one-on-one conversation with someone and I I want to that helps me because I I want to draw another line I don't think every conversation in Costco um or the grocery store or wherever has to go back to the superintendent why can't why I mean and you know because you're you're out in the community and how

064you would handle it or what your what Your what your response is I think it's sufficient just to say sure I'm happy to to listen to what you have I'm listening share with me what you wish and I don't think you have to commit upfront that oh I'm going to share everything with Dr Rees if it's you know there has to be some filter right because I don't think every individual board member is obligated to say you know what what kind of frozen chicken the person bought in Costco because they said share that with Dr Rees right right you know he doesn't need to know that he's a busy man he's got enough things to do so I think is I think we we listen I think it informs how you're going to do your

065job but not everything needs to go into his inbox right and I'm just saying that our responses what we need to be aware of no matter how we respond they're not going to see us as anybody so however we resp respond it's going to be as a board member to them even if we're just having that small conversation in Costco whether we're just listening or not I mean however we respond my point was they see us as a board member they don't they no longer see you as their next door neighbor or the the you're on my kids soccer your kids are together on the soccer team they don't longer see you as another mom on the team they see you as a board member and I think they also see you as influential right

066and I think that's where I thought I thought that's where you were going that whatever's you know said to you right goes to others within the organization that's not always the case you have every right to pick and choose I think is the the point I wanted to make okay um the next part of the materials really from like page five to um up till you get to the uh the PowerPoint slides on 20 these are these are board bylaws I hope I have the um you know the most current ones I pulled them off the website um is what I did and you know the first one is so the board bylaws are are the 9,000 Series these are the rules as to how the board wants to govern itself right from time to

067time they will change there could be a new law um that's enacted and you got to change the bylaw cuz what you were doing is is not lawful um you know and the first one's the role of the board um and then talking about we were talking about page six um you were you were making the point about you know board's responsible for hiring the superintendent those things uh supervising the superintendent that's true um you were discussing the policy piece policy makers that's a big part of the job um budget is a big part of the job I think that goes back to the first point as to why the CBO was included as being part of the governance team because the budget is a huge responsibility and the superintendents they know a lot but

068they need their cbos too um to help with with budget issues as well collective bargaining one of my favorites you know the board's legal representative of the district in bargaining this page eight uh board sets goals guidelines for collective bargaining selects the team maintains Communications and adopts the negotiated contract your bylaws actually effectively I think limit the role of the board cons what I think the law is this is an area that's been delegated to a team right do any board members sit in the bargaining with no and that's the way most District are and that's on bargain I sit on two bargaining teams when I one ah um and and then the judicial and appeals body this is another reason why why board members shouldn't get involved in talking about Personnel matters or actually

069certain student complaints because that says the board may have a role to play relative fact finding responsibilities and could be the final Arbiter in those proceedings if you talk I'm going to just be glib if you talk too much about a particular matter and you're too involved one way or the other you're going to have to share that with your fellow board members and you might have to recuse yourself remove yourself from that decision making so it is it is about lanes and and drawing certain lines the next one uh the next policy is about public statements um we've said some of these things just on the natural and your bylaws reflected um statements may be perceived as reflecting the views or the positions of the board to ensure communication of a consistent unified message

070respecting the authority of the board to choose its representatives to communicate its positions and abide by established protocols and being mindful that what you do on that second to last paragraph on page 11 what happens on social networking sites blogs other discussions informational sites could be the subject of a CPR request I don't know who came up with this first but they said the word e and email stands for evidence because a lot of it could be subject to disclosure I have a a question um regarding that and you talked about Facebook um there are groups um social media groups and and I am speaking on Facebook where they deal with they uh the complaints are about the district or something happening at the district and so um are we putting ourselves in Peril by

071responding or liking those things like if they're saying I'll give an example um School X principal did X Y and Z we don't like this we're going you know they're and they're talking about the D Dynamics at the school and then as a board member if we comment or like or do any kind of interaction on that and then later on have to vote in closed session so you're saying situ I'm I'm just listening okay okay so if we do that um is that going to put us in a position where we may not be able to vote I think there's that's a remote possibility that it disqualifies you but I would say what you're on to is the better practice you have the right when there are employee discipline issues or there are performance

072you have the right to go in a close session and first Talk Amongst yourselves to figure out what the appropriate thing to do with you have the right to consult with your to contact superintendent to get certain information right and it could be a situation where the board's going to say we need an update on this particular situation it's site X or employee why but you do it in there this is I'm pointing to where a closed session was held earlier um going on Facebook with the ridiculous emojis and everything sorry that was my editorial um you know I just I I just don't think it's the effective way for a board member to communicate I think it could be misinterpreted and you have such more powerful ways to address these issues than that now

073can we I think is the you will and I agree however if the district Instagram site puts out that school so and so did something positive can we be encouraging or liking those types of comments if it's the district website okay I think so I think the board wants to be we want to be see supporting our district obviously and I think it's yeah yeah that I'm okay with I think another very important bylaw and um this is It's board bylaw 9200 at um page 13 and and I think it embodies a lot of the things we're just talking about on the nap the board is a the first line boards a unit of authority over the district broad but clearly limited powers restricted by what's permitted by law but actually in California we have

074something called the permissive code that if it's not prohibited by law board and the district does have the ability to push the outer limits um and do something different and then that next paragraph is kind of humbling at board the board member has no individual Authority board member may not commit the district Policy Act expenditure Bo and I'm skipping a little but in that paragraph board member represents and acts for the community as a whole once you're elected right it's a total it's a you know this better than I do because you're board members you might run on a particular platform or a particular Focus for a certain segment of the community perhaps but once you're elected then you represent the the acts and you represent the community as a whole you don't represent fractional

075segments of the community but board members shall not exercise administrative responsibility these are strong statements but they are not out of line with the law and the way the Attorney General interprets it in opinion letters and a way case law by judges is enacted also and also I would say with the brown act as well but these are these are important um things that second and last parag on the first page um board members may not arrange or direct any District staff to arrange staff meetings or other meetings with one or more District employees unless directed by a majority of the board or superintendent or design no individual board member shall direct or oversee School related activities sometimes I'm in I get a call from a District and either the assistant soup's calling or the

076superintendent's calling saying hey an individ an individual board member would like to see Jane Doe's Personnel does he and they they're convinced they've got the right to have it because they're interested and they want to see something because they heard some concern was brought to that no way if though there was and you were in discipline dismissal release and close session and there was something in front of the board to consider it could be that if the board provides the direction that the personnel file would be provided but not an individual board member individual board member wants to pop in you know at any particular site anytime here or she wants no those visits are actually coordinated right so it's being mindful of those things as well um meeting conduct on pages yeah 16 17

07718 um you know the president of the board you read you read what the the rights are for the public to comment you called for public comment there was no public comment um I do think I would make a recommendation for a little change in here actually I do think people I'll say quietly but people do have the right to stand up and criticize an employee your byla says they don't um it's old this is from 1995 on page 18 number six but we might want to look at that one and I've seen I've seen that language where is it uh no oral presentation shall include charges or complaints against any employee of the bo number six top no oral presentation shall include charges or complaints against any employee of the board including the superintendent

078regardless of whether or not the employee is identified in any way all charges complaints shall comply with board policy what if I'm going to do a wh if I'm an eighth grade teacher hard so they do a lot of wh ifs um what if they begin to talk specifically like let's say they get up there and specifically St start talking about Personnel matters about the employee uh or make accusations that could be um like like I want to say egregious right so um I as a board president I allow that to continue or well they do have the right to criticize an employ what you can do in my view is you can interrupt respectfully and you could say kind of I think this is what it's trying to express in here you could say

079hey we have 13 12 .1 however you number it but it's complaints against School Employees we have that available and I'd be happy to um you know give you a copy after the meeting tonight and i' hope you'd use that um instead of doing instead of handling it this way here but if what if they say to you no I've got still I've got two minutes in 11 seconds and I'm not done do they have the right to keep speaking Yeah yeah they do so Madam president this one is over 10 years old so Comm refer it to the policy committee yeah yeah it's is this referring to the public yes yes okay so they can criticize the board I know that they can criticize the board they can but employees I'm just concerned about

080like I um I'm a protector but I'm just I'm concerned about them saying something really egregious about an employee whether no matter what area of the whether they're classified a counselor or teacher and somehow like saying something I mean again it would be on them but if they're just accusing them of these horrible things in public um do we have any liability as a school district or the board uh I would say no if it was if it was I'm trying to think what's really you know employee X is a child molester right you know yeah you know this person you know close your eyes and think of whatever you want to think about really things like that or they're or they're using a lot of profanity um you know there I might interrupt if

081I see they're getting volatile and they're and they're becoming very threatening in their speech there I might so obscenity is not protected threats are not protected being critical um if they get up and say teacher X hit my kid but it's not true they can get up and say something like that those are we would know would we we would know okay well I'm just I I'm thinking of things that have been said yeah that have been said I have a question to it feels sorry it feels so I I don't like my answer right right right right you're doing and I don't like that I have to let them continue but I don't either but it's it's I'm I'm a big I want to protect employees I want to protect the First Amendment but

082if you start picking and choosing when you interrupt that it's about the content of their speech right sorry I they can get up there and read recipes I know um how about in situations where those comments would actually sway the decision of any decision being made well if it really is a decision about um an employee then I mean actually if the board was hearing a complaint or charge about a particular employee there's something called the 24 hour you would do that in Clos session but at least 24 hours before that closed session you have to give the employee the right they have the right to actually have that heard in Open Session which rarely happens sometimes it does because the employee won't be invited into close but no I know I think what you're

083thinking is whoa we might be the final Arbiter remember we read that section we don't want to hear these concerns now I don't I don't think that'll hold up I'm taking it another level can anyone stand up and speak bad about another Community member not an employee of this District um and if there's again if that decision would sway yeah any decision of the board how would we protect that one person that it's being talked about because they don't you know I know employees have a different you know and they're covered by laws and everything else so but the Community member if it's something having to do with again subject matter jurisdiction of what the board is involved in then they can speak sometimes I say to clients you know you just got to grit

084your teeth for three minutes and let them speak um but that's it's publica that's their part of the meeting you guys have five minutes where you give everybody five minutes that's a long time that's only our association President we have three minutes or read it it's for the five is foration okay that's different so then how would number seven play into um number six number seven board president shall not permit any oh okay so so that is so what the this is also a little area where the laws evolved a bit if someone is um willfully interrupting disrupting the board meeting the law over the past couple of years now requires the president to warn the employ warn the speaker that you are interrupting this meeting or you're being threatening or you cannot continue vanity

085that you're using if you don't stop you're going to be removed from this meeting okay but necessarily this speaker are you also referring to like maybe the audience that and I've done that before I've had to stop they're not supposed to Heckle right or cheer or cheer wow I'd be excited like promoted you're right right but if it's if it's um you know they're trying to get the crowd all fired it really isn't supposed to you know on a controversial issue I was thinking about clapping C no somebody got promoted wonderful go but now we're little robots before we get to the brown act can we take a break cuz I know some board members haven't had dinner oh sure all right that way we're not eating on camera you guys we'll take uh how

086long do we need 15 minutes okay thank you thank you board e e e you we're back all right we are going to now focus on the brown act but we're just going to do certain portions of the slides you can read all of it at home I thought I'd rather focus on a number of key points and then if there's some followup or whatever we can I'm happy to to uh follow up as needed but let's turn to page um as we were talking about earlier but I think when it comes to the brown act it's understanding that the definition of what a meeting is is very broad very broad so a meeting is where you've got a majority members of the legislative body so for a five member board like you three three

087is a major and there to hear discuss deliberate or act on any item within the subject matter jurisdiction of the body here just talking about something you don't need to be there to take an action in in the parking lot you just need to be having a conversation with three of you you don't that is um a meeting so you know and there and then there are some exceptions so when is the board allowed to travel as a group like do you go to csba do do all five of you typically go okay that's an Express exception that's in the brown app um a board majority can go to a general conference that's the bottom slide on 23 yep a board majority at a general conference involving a variety of agencies and it's open to

088the public well most of these organizations like csba they actually have either some fine print or something it's open to the public right they have to pay but it's open to the public the other exception that's not a meeting if you all decide to come to my birthday party right in May thank you thank you your community might not understand when you're all there um but that's social or you know it's a a ceremony of some kind you you could all go would I recommend that you all stand together at my birthday party actually I would I would re I would recommending to filter out because as a number of you have said you're always wearing your board member hat people are even if they can't even hear your conversation they assume at my birthday

089party you're talking about something that the board's going to be deciding on and you're not just enjoying my company right the next one down attendance of a ma a board majority at a standing committee of the board so if the board has a standing committee um you can all attend but you've got to be faithful you can only you can only go as observers okay and you can also go to publicized meetings of another local agency if it's publicized so there there will be but these are the kinds of things that we need we need the superintendent to be in in charge of because he's having one-on ones with you he doesn't know necessarily where you want to go unless he has that information up front and it might make sense because we don't have

090an exception that only one of you goes to that particular meeting or two at the most but not all five because then we have a brown act problem or the direction might be you can all go but remember you can only talk about what's on the agenda and don't all sit together in certain situations csba no problem I mean everybody there is a board member right um but there's certain things where you do have to be concerned about the appearance of it even though you want to be faithful to what the tenants of the brown act provide you don't want people to think the wrong thing okay so events uh organized by the district it's the football day it's all go and and particularly we get seated in the same table because we're all forers

091whatever the reason is is should we try to separate from the table I think for fo day it's purely ceremonial thing and you're at the district I think that one's okay that's fine okay yeah my birthday party separate from the district a little different even though it's purely social or ceremonial but let's say you're um building a new school and you head over to the construction site is that exemp is that a meeting if let's say you're doing a groundbreaking and you're going to um you're going to cut a ribbon and you're going to walk around the site with your hard hats on is that is that a a meeting is that purely social ceremonial or do you think Brown act applies I don't know but we did iton I mean ceremonial to me would

092be I mean but unless well you walk around without discussing anything having to do with we're listening to the guide exactly it it depends how it's set up and we're you know I'm sure the way it was set up when you guys did it was fine but if you're walking around the site and they're explaining how the plans are going to be implemented and what we're going to do over here those are issues that are within your subject matter jurisdiction and I would say even at the site because we are as a firm we're very conservative on the brown act in those situations I would play it safe and I would agendize you're going out to you know this new site or hole in the ground literally um you know about that all right so

093I want you to just be you know it's it's the self-discipline piece it's it's grappling with the definition of what a meeting is and what a meeting is not the other thing page 24 I want to talk about serial meetings and we've talked about it a little bit there's a reason why the superintendent has one-on-one meetings with you right or a two onone at the most with the understanding two of you can't go talk to a third meeting about what you were just talking about it's brownx stuff but there's an exception and the superintendent is a matter of law it's in the brown neck superintendent imagine you know the hubs and spokes superintendent's here superintendent can speak with each of the five of you he can share information he can answer questions um he he

094can be a resource for that and that is an exception to to a ser meeting that would that would exist otherwise if the purpose of the meeting was using because that's the definition top of page 24 a majority of members of the board shall not outside a notice meeting use a series of communications of any kind these individual meetings directly or through intermediaries to same standard discuss delibery take action on any item that's within the board's jurisdiction but the the superintendent does have the right to provide look at the top of 25 providing information or private briefings for less than a quorum of the board on background events concerning an agenda item that doesn't violate the ACT unless they're disclosed to other members so that's why that is why the superintendent does that it would

095be so much more efficient just to meet with all five of you in one meeting but that deprives the public of the right to see what's going on which is section one of the brown head you know do it do it you you you're not going to conceal your business from the people okay the other thing I want to skip to is Page 27 there's a reason why there are some things in closed session and there's some things that are done in Open Session that bottom slide on page 27 uh lists all of the things that you're allowed to meet privately in closed session about Personnel stuff if you're hearing a complaint or a charge against an employee labor negotiations uh certain real property transactions litigation Tor claims student Discipline matters all of that you're

096allowed to go in close session in our in the brown app it lays out each of the bases under which you can meet and close session and it tells you exactly pretty precisely how you have to agenda it it's section 5495 4.5 and it's a really important section when clients call me or when I look at agendas or close section agendas and sometimes I'll ask why why is this Tred did you requote that sure it's government code section 54 954 4.5 what it listen but it's called Safe Harbor Provisions do it this way and you're complying with the brown act for describing Clos that's that means question or just the pen uh question okay should do you recommend that we have a copy of the brown NE oh you you can look at it I

097mean I'm sure when you yeah yeah I get one our book is coming out um and I'll uh for inviting me here I'll I'll make sure that we we get some copies to you so you can have it thank you um but I just I think it's important that if the if the government code spells out how you're supposed to agenda close session follow it to the letter I would just I like to do that so I'm a stick letter that okay next thing I want to focus on a little bit is the confidentiality of close session top of page 28 a big one close session is not I shouldn't make a joke about but I will so you'll remember it it's like Las Vegas what goes on there stays there I guess is the

098cliche right and no individual board member has authority to say something that was said in closed session that's confidential without authorization from a board majority I have a question yes what happens if information from a closed session um is shared after board member is noer no longer a board member my question oh um have a disclosure yeah I'm not gonna I'm not going to answer that question but I'll talk to the superintendent thank you I like that okay okay thank you okay that was my question questions withdrawn yes yes okay so it is a sanctity of of close session and we and it's another thing of self-discipline you know you have to you have to remember what you learned in Clos session it's not public information and we really have to respect that lots of

099boards or board members can get in trouble if they violate that because the board certainly the board well not the board president the board the board takes that very seriously so we've got to be we' gota we've go to um honor that as well okay so I want you to look if you still have it at sheet a look at number six so we got it's ab and ab and C so board member a Amber she just finished reading this fabulous article about schools Inc and instead of it being s see it's money sign it's a dollar sign school's Inc school's Inc promises that it can build schools and teacher housing and half the time and it half the cost just three easy steps or your money back Amber is sold she likes what she's

100reading she forwards it to board member Bernardo with a message hi Bernardo this is fabulous stuff from the school's Inc outfit I would like to discuss it and put it on our next meeting agenda got any problem with what happened with Amber and Bernardo is it a brown act problem yet until the next not yet no reading ahead next paragraph Bernardo replies to Amber whatever and he does a BCC to board member Cliff now I told you that the BCC was okay for what the superintendent was doing and I thought that was just information he was sharing about SE how now we've got Bernardo doing the BCC trick and I want to make sure you make a distinction between what I said superintendent could do and Bernardo Bernardo did a BCC the cliff Bernardo violated

101the brown Act and the whole board Bernardo his training right and then cliff goes a step farther further farther board member Cliff forwards the email string to the superintendent does Cliff have a problem maybe he's reporting them right he's all right Cliff I think did the right thing a little late but he did the right thing CU then I think then we could have the superintendent who's going to see the whole string then he could get in yes with a little uh stomach upset but then we' have to get involved but that's the problem with with email whether it's reply all or forwarding or going Beyond just two members that's a problem so we have to be careful about technology I talked to you about the social media rules back to page 30 sorry if

102I'm doing a whiplash your wh soft but I want you to know the social media rules you've got the right to have conversations answer questions provide information solicit information from the public but you can't use social media to have discussions among board members if it's a public website and it only matters if it's shared or the exchange is between two members not three that's a big deal I think and that's relatively new the the legal Cod so don't tag me don't tag me I don't even know what that answering questions in social media um we are allowed to do that well because I go back to the communication piece and how um my if I had my way I would say no don't do it I think I said earlier You' got better ways you

103know to do it do we do you really have to be you know social media and then all then it can be forwarded or you if you a mistake is made in tag just just it's Frau with challenges so I know I sound a little too hyper conservative but I am on social media and I do think about that PO case and what happened and that thing went all the way up and back Supreme Court okay few more and I'm going to let my people go um turning to um well the the teleconference requirment I don't want to spend a lot of time on that 33 I just want you to know that there's different options the Old Law is the traditional teleconference and it recognized that sometimes people are going to be out of

104District boundaries whether it's for work or they have to do something with family and they're going to be out of state or out of the country and what the rule is under the traditional system is it's got to be on the agenda so you need a little Advanced time so you can say John board member John is not going to be here he's going to be in Kentucky and here's and and it would actually post the location and then when I'm in Kentucky in a hotel it's my obligation to post the notice in the hotel lobby and to leave my door open for anybody who wants to sit with me my hotel room and observe the meeting that's a traditional requirement it's a little it's a little fill in place whatever you want okay so

105we we do have there are some alternatives now either based on an emergency or health situation for the individual board member and so if you see that coming and sometimes it doesn't have to be agendized sometimes it you could get less than 24 hours notice but the board considers it up front you know truste X can't be here tonight board is it okay if they participate superintendent we'd have a bullet list did we comply with all these requirements if so yes okay but I want you to know that there are options that exist and there's also another change in the law it used to be that attendance at a board meeting was was an essential function of being a board member there's a relatively recent attorney general opinion that says it's no longer essential we've

106learned from Co that board members can just as effectively participate in the board meeting I'm paraphrasing remotely so there are options for remote my personal bias is that it's so much better and more meaningful to be there in person especially for a presentation on the brown act okay couple last thing I think we covered this this disruption Interruption and threats on the bottom of um actually one one slide above that the the Public's right to comment we looked at your bylaw um they have the right to do it before or during consideration of any open or close such an item you do all your public comments up front at the beginning of the meeting and someone speak when you call a particular item yes they could give a card for that right they're supposed to

107speak prior to the board actually considering the issue um you do have the right to put reasonable time limitations you've got your 20 minute rule you had more people coming the board could decide to instead of giving everybody 3 minutes You' give them one minute or whatever the case might be but those things should be spelled out the bylaw um and you know the the public does have the right to criticize and we went through that I think in some um last thing when it comes to disruption and interruptions this is really this is the new law um if you warn the individual that their behavior is disrupting the meeting and they fail to cease that behavior they that may result in their removal um but I'm not expecting president Ugarte to go walk a

108disruptive person out you got to use this right that you have I don't know do you have security present at your board meetings those are the individuals that you ask you know to remove a particular individual it's not for board members to do that um and you're really supposed to clearing the entire room is the option of Last Resort supposed to focus on where the particular issue is have that person or those individuals removed if you had pressed there you would want to try to give them the right to be there so they could cover what they need to cover but we do have a little more guidance about that it really is when you're when you're dealing with disruptive behavior um at a meeting um not somebody who's saying something negative but somebody who's

109really disruptive either through physicality or or profanity or threatening behavior um last thing on page 36 talks about what the consequences are if you violate the brown act it's serious stuff there are um there are all kinds of relief that an individual can seek and get for violations there's some if if the board deprives the public of um something's not agendized in the board takes action something was done in close session that never should have been there there are certain violations where it can nullify it makes whatever action the board took that was in violation of the brown act it could make that action null and void it's limited to certain situations but that's why if there is a brown act violation your lawyers want to know because we can cure and correct it or

110we hope we can cure and correct it and that limits the liability too um so beware it is serious stuff um and we'll I'll definitely send you our our little booklet that I think is a good resource um I do think it's a good idea to read Brown act every once in a while you'll see a lot of the things that we talk about where it comes from um that's the long and short of the brown I'm happy to answer any other questions you might have so if one of us in public session disclosed items inadvertently in Open Session that were Clos session items then we could have the consequences that are listed board the board could pursue consequences against the individual member there could be a centure where you would read some public statements

111member X shouldn't have done this this and this and that could be stated publicly there could also be um you know something with state law enforcement um the da grand jury there real consequences for abusing that right serious stuff thank you sir thank you thank very good we will now adjourn to close session in accordance with the following government code section 3549 .1 D and 54957.6 collective bargaining employee negotiations agency negotiators Adam Silva and mcnali LLP employee organizations chil Vista classified employees organization chil Vista Educators non-represented employees and administrators Association chil Vista government code section 54957 B1 Public Employee discipline dismissal release and conference with legal council antic anticipation anticipated litigation initiation of litigation pursuant to government code section 54956.9 subsection d41 case e e e we now reconvene to open session with all board

112members present close session announcements will be made by the clerk the board took action to approve the property damage release with vva pools and Atlantic Casualty Insurance by the following vote the A's were five NOS zero thank you I did my own motion I second I second do we have a motion to adjourn this meeting at 8:55 motion toour the meeting I second move by truste Ramirez Dominguez seconded by truste tolston all those in favor oh motion carries you know e