3/6/25 KCS BOE Regular Meeting

001Welcome to the board of education's March March 6, 2025 regular session meeting. Please stand as we observe a moment of silence followed by the pledge of allegiance led by Miss Elkins this evening. I'd like to observe this moment of silence for a student at halls that passed um on Tuesday. Face the flag. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Just a few announcements before we get into our agenda. Uh board members, again, as a reminder, our next policy review meeting will be held in this room on Friday, March 14th at 10 a.m. Also, as Superintendent Rywick announced at Monday's work session, the Knox County schools will be closed for spring break,

002March 17th through the 21st. And on behalf of the board, I want to wish all of our students, families, and staff a welldeserved, wonderful spring break. I know my kids are really excited for spring break coming up. Are there requested any requested changes to the agenda? Move to approve. All right. Motion by Mr. Triplet, second by Miss Christie. All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? All right. Let's get into it. Miss Cody. Thank you, Madam Chair. Item five, consent agenda. Second. A motion by Miss Christie, a second by Mr. Triplet. Do we have any discussion on this item? Seeing there's none, all those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Item 6A, approve second reading of Knox County Board of Education policy D 100, fiscal management goals and objectives as amended.

003Second motion by Miss Christie, a second by Mr. Triplet. Do we have any discussion? Seeing there is none. All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. 6B. Approved second reading of Knox County Board of Education policy E170, student transportation management as amended. Second. A motion by Miss Christie, a second by Mr. Triplet. Do we have any discussion? Seeing there is none. All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. 6 C. Approve second reading of Knox County Board of Education policy E 173, private vehicles for transporting students as amended. Second a motion by Miss Christie, a second by Mr. Triplet. Do we have any discussion? Seeing there is none, all those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. 6D. Approve second reading of Knox County Board of Education

004policy F-150 new project planning as amended. Motion by Reverend Butler, second by Miss Christie. Any discussion? Seeing there is none, all those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. 6E. Approve second reading of Knox County Board of Education policy J1 191, misbehaviors and disciplinary options as amended. I do believe we have a public forum speaker. Yes, we do have one public forum speaker on this. Tiara Lady Wilson. Okay. Motion by Reverend Butler, second by Miss Christie. Thank you. If you'll state your name and county residents and then you'll have three minutes to speak. Okay. I'm sorry we weren't ready. I didn't know it was coming that fast. Sorry about that. That came really fast. Um, good evening everyone. My name is Tiara Lady Wilson. I am glad that this was on the agenda

005because I came to talk about um will Knox County Schools continue to be part of the problem. Proud parent of two Austin students, especially when it comes to sexual predators. One in four females and one in six males are sexually assaulted in their lifetime. This is a staggering statistic. Yet the topic is taboo, causing shame and isolation to the victims whose stories are never heard and many times not believed. This happens because we live in a society that pretends that monsters only live up under the bed and do not walk among us. On January the 13th, my daughter was sexually assaulted by one of her classmates, a male student at AE, who she thought was her friend, but found out that he is obsessed with her and delusional about a perceived relationship. Survivor trauma has

006kicked in and she did not tell her story for two days to me. Once I was made aware, I immediately contacted the school and this individual's mother. My child did not want to talk to the police. However, I knew that we are a mandated state and so therefore I let administration at AE know because my child is being forced to be in the classroom with her asalent for two classes, half of the day. I understand I'm just going to speak for the for my heart so that I can pay attention to that clock. I understand that our hands are tied legally for stuff. You guys just voted on taking out that kids who have not been legally charged for stuff will not be penalized in school. However, the question is, what about the children that

007they assault who has to be in school with these individuals because our legal system takes so much time in order to prosecute juveniles. The police waited till my daughter was 18 to interview her because guess what? An adult cannot take out a restraining order on a minor. So guess what's happening? My child's education is being prohibited all because we want to protect the monster that walks amongst the school halls. And so I'm coming to you all to say, hey, we got to do something because one and four, one and six of our children, when I look at this day, is at least four or five of you are in that number. So I'm asking, what are we going to do to put policies into place to actually protect those who have been sexually assaulted outside

008of school, but then they have to go to school with their predators. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. That concludes public forum. [Applause] Do we have any discussion on this item? I just want to thank you for coming and speaking. Um, you know, you weren't the only parent I've heard from who has to go to, you know, has been assaulted, um, and has to go to school with their aggressors and see them and they feel unsafe in the schools. And this is something I have feel like I'm beating my head against the wall. I feel like a broken record uh that I keep trying to fight for and I do not understand why it keeps happening. So I am so sorry as a mom and as a board member that this happened to you and

009your family and you are not the only person and it is our job to make sure that kids are protected. So thank you for telling us your story. Um Miss Templeton, thank you. Thank you for that, for your story because it is raw and it is real and it is not um well unfortunately it's not uncommon. Um I do have a question. Um I think she raises some really good points and something that I think we can talk about. Um this is the place to do that. What is the process? I understand that legally um we're innocent until proven guilty, but then also um if there is real fear in a child because an asalent is two seats down um how do we protect the mental health of those who um have been assaulted? So,

010um what what is the KCS way in this manner? I think that's me, Miss Temple. Thank you. Uh, so, um, I will, um, I actually probably have Dr. Brown jump in on some of this, too. Uh, and we may need Mr. Dupller to hop in on it, too. Um, so there are, I mean, I would say every case is probably different when it comes to that based on circumstances that are around some of those things. Um, and you know, we always follow what kind of is legally there because what's happened outside, what what legal pieces have happened outside all factor into that as well. as far as how we handle discipline. Again, I'll let I'll let let Dr. Brown jump in. Uh you know, we have our what we can pretty much do is like

011suspensions, those sorts of things that we do from that side. So, um we do those as quickly as we can depending on how long um whatever has happened need like whatever term it meets, you know, if a fiveday suspension this kind. So, some things require disciplinary hearing uh which requires us to go through if if if it's under five days, we can do a suspension. If it's more than that, we have to have a hearing part of the due process of the student and doing all that kind of stuff. So, um, all those things become factors. There are a lot of factors too based on the individuals that are involved. Um, if a student has an IEP, if a student doesn't, like all those things become factors as I say. So, it's very case by

012case when it comes to that. But the natural process would be to go to a disciplinary hearing in something as egregious as what was just described. Um, law enforcement would probably be involved too. All those things become part of that. Um, and then, you know, we we go through our school discipline. school discipline doesn't always wait on and sometimes it does wait on depending on the circumstances what happens external as far as um law enforcement court those kinds of things as well. Uh and you know those students have a right to appeal those all the all the same processes appeal even you know to both sides on that. Uh typically schools will try in those to understand those situations and try to make um other class assignments. Sometimes that student doesn't return to school if

013they're under a suspension at that point for a period of time. safety plans are written for those students to try to make that happen. Again, I I don't know the circumstances of this one. I don't know if it's I don't know. So, I would hate to speculate. There are lots of things that could be part of that of the reason for that. I don't know the answer to that and I don't know the facts of this case either to do that. So, I don't know. Dr. Bren, if you jump in and maybe something I left out and and Mr. Duke, you may want to as well. No, Dr. Roick, I think you uh did a great job. I would say technically typically what we do regardless of the situation when we're made aware is we

014develop a safety plan. Okay. And so that we work with the school or the school just develops on their own a plan. Um because as Dr. Riswick said the easiest thing to do oftentimes is make sure that we can provide separation um if we can't render discipline at the time or if there are other factors involved. Um and again as he said case by case that can be a lot of different things. Um but we do put a safety plan in place. The easiest thing to do is change a student's schedule and we typically would change the aggressor schedule in that case. We don't ever try to to render anything that would appear to be disciplined in nature to a victim. Uh but again, the individual case by case basis would would determine what happens

015there. Um for example, if these students happen to share a an AP course and it's the only offering of that course, then it would be difficult to change the the schedules. And so we may have a situation where they do have to remain in a class together, but we always make the teachers aware of those. And again, we put a safety plan in place to where um we limit contact as much as possible. He just mentioned your name, so I'm looking at you. I didn't know I before I before I speak, I'm just tossing the ball your way. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Tilton. Thank you, Madam Chair. I agree with what Dr. Rise and Dr. Brown have said. Uh I would I would recommend that someone uh with KCS follow up with the speaker

016after the meeting because as they said individual facts make a huge difference in these cases and KCS follows court orders, right? I mean I rec I I I do recognize that we are bound by the law of the land. We cannot re write the laws inside um our school buildings. Um, and I appreciate all efforts being made that the victims in the case are um their emotional and mental well-being is taken into account um as they you know progress through their through their school day um because every day is difficult in that case. So um I appreciate all the counselors that are on board and and the listening ears that help rea. So thank you for that. That was kind of my piece that I was trying to get at is what are we doing

017for sure them. Thank you, M. Templeton, Madam Chair. And I'll also mention Miss Simgard reminded me that also in these situations, anytime there's anything of a sexual nature involved, uh we have a title N officer and we have title N policies in place. So, we also uh will usually deploy that team and they'll go out and do an investigation and they're a part of developing that plan and making sure that we're following the law and and protecting everybody in the situation. Uh, but I I've actually I've written uh Miss Wilson's name down here. I'm going to follow up tomorrow with the school if she I don't know if she has time to stay around tonight. I'll be glad to talk to her, but then I'll also follow up with our school culture department tomorrow and

018have them follow up with the school and make sure we've got plans in place to protect her daughter. Thank you, Miss Christie. Dr. Brown may have just answered that question and my question. And I know that when we talked about this at policy review, um this was one of the questions I had, Mr. Duper, I'm trying to remember the conversation because one of the concerns being that um sometimes you develop these safety plans, but the student might go rogue and be out of area, right? I mean, and making sure that we follow up on those and it it might be the title nine where that came in, but I know there was some discussion surrounding that there are things in addition to this policy maybe or procedures. It seemed like this policy didn't completely apply

019to those types of situations. Did I do you remember that discussion? I vaguely remember this discussion, right? Because we we kind of went Yeah. down a whole other area and then it was directed back saying, "Well, this really isn't the place for that discussion." No, that's true. Thank you, Miss Christie, and thank you, Madam Chair. The I mean, the policy that's before you tonight, the only changes are pure legal changes based upon um you know, the the the current TCA definition of restraint. And then the the other is the um outside conduct which is um you know it really doesn't apply as far as discipline at all and and and that was one change that needed to be made to this policy to make that very clear that that's not discipline at all. So so

020that's the only changes to this policy but but as far as sexual assault and things like that certainly Title N comes into play um very greatly in those types of situations. So, Miss Spike, sorry, just listening intently. Um, yeah, I guess I'm somewhat on similar pages. Um, and just, um, I'm wondering if someone could describe to me, and I guess also, sorry, I'm going in all different ways. Um, if a male is sexually harassing a male, is that still Title N? I I I'll take first step. You could jump in. I I I believe like I mean I believe sexual harassment was something that we would look into despite I mean I don't know that we asked those things if if if there are uh your question whether it's Title N or not. I'll tell

021you Knox County Schools will look into any of those harassment charges and um if they're of a sexual nature or not and you know there's a determination at some point whether Title N's involved but we would look into any of those just for the safety of those two students uh you know no matter what gender the students would be because we wouldn't tolerate that kind of harassment. what what officially makes it title nine or not. Um I'm probably not the law guy who do it. I'm sure there you know maybe that's Gary, but we would definitely investigate and and still do the same no matter what. I just wonder if there's a department that would be would that just fall under our general student supports department? I would say again it would it would depend

022on the nature. I mean it it's hard to talk about just one thing. We're not trying to dodge this. I'm just going, you know, if if this was, you know, two people horse playing two, you know, third graders and something happened, that may be something a principal handles, right? It all depends on what what's happened in those cases. If it, you know, what was described tonight obviously would involve a much deeper investigation and and and having to look at cameras and having to look at locations. I there's a lot that would have to go into looking at that. Um, so I think it would it again, it would depend on the situation that we have. Um, but we do investigate that thoroughly. Sometimes it's handled just by the school. Sometimes we have to bring in

023folks maybe from HR from from title N. Sometimes it's even security, you know, if it's something that could be criminal or and sometimes it's outside law enforcement if it's that too. So, it would depend on what it is for us to have the to assign the proper investigation to it. Yeah. Um and again, I don't know if Jennifer or Andrew, you want to hop in on that. Yes, Madam Chair, Miss Bike, yes. Any sexual assaults that occur in the schools, our Title N coordinator is made aware of. Um are are they a Title 9 violation would depend on the circumstances. Um but yes, our title N coordinator is made aware of all sexual assault allegations in our schools. Okay. Thank you. Um my next question is um if there is someone that could kind of

024describe to me what the procedure is when let's say I I know it could be different between elementary, middle, and high school. Um but when some sort of harassment, sexual harassment or serious harassment is had at the school level, is there a standard procedure that that is always reported up and how does that work? Okay, I'll I'll start. Thank you, Miss Bike, Madam Chair. Uh so yes, we have a what we call a bullying and harassment workflow. And so anytime that's reported, any staff member can start that workflow, enter the student's name. We have a process that we go through that includes creation of safety plans and all those kind of things. Uh it really again depends on the nature of the event. Um if it's more sexual in nature, then we would involve the

025title N team. But uh we have pretty explicit um flow chart of of the process and how we move through that to make sure again our our our number one priority is to protect the safety of our students and to make sure that they can come and have a safe environment to learn in. Uh so we're going to try to address those as quickly as possible, get plans in place and and again sometimes those depending on the situations um they're going to look different. You know if there's an active investigation uh we're not allowed to question or to begin our investigation. let's say if DCS is involved, we have to let them complete their investigation before we can get involved so we don't tamper with the investigation. So, um but in in the meantime, we

026still will do what we can in the classroom and the school setting to make sure there are plans in place to protect the students. So when it doesn't get outside of the school level to a higher level to regions and to the central office um but it should have then what kind of is there a retraining that happens for our staff? How does that work? That's a good question. Thanks Miss and Madam Chair. Um so the the workflow actually is reported automatically once that's started um in our it's through Aspen. Um, we have people in the school culture department who have access to that. I'm sure people in HR and title nine also depending how it's coded when it's when that workflow is started, but they are notified immediately. So then we can follow up

027with the school to make sure that plans are in place and things are being done to to handle that properly. Okay. Um, next question. um in kind of the scenario that you had had described of you know if there's only this one class that's offered but they these and these two individuals are signed up for it um in and I kind of struggle to talk in like this victim versus aggressor but when you have those two roles I think it would be hard as a victim to really focus to stay in that class and I understand that we have safety plans and all of that, but it does seem like at times that there's more needed, but I understand our obligation to educate and educate all students. Um, but it just doesn't it just doesn't

028seem right. Um, and so I'm struggling with that because that's definitely happened at some of my schools and some of my like tangental schools, my feeder schools. Um, and and I do think it is a serious problem and I'd love to figure out a solution for that. You know, does the the student that is the aggressor, does that exempt them from be able being able to is there a world or a space where it exempts them from being able to take the class that's only offered? I totally agree with everything you're saying. And at what point does the aggressor get moved? And I I think every child has a right to an education, but at what point does that aggressor are they are they moved to another school so that the victim feels safe? I'll

029jump in first, then you can have it, Dr. Brown. How about that? Okay. So, I I'll say this 100%. So, I mean, I I don't I know we're we're trying to talk through kind of how process happens. In no way are we saying we you think this is fine, right? Just want to make sure everybody knows that, you know, we we totally we are totally empathetic to victims. Uh we totally want to make sure that we are protecting them. Uh we want to protect all students. That's important for us. I want to make sure that's that's said. You know, with that said, now we have to deal with the nuances of everything in between with that. So, um it is it is hard to talk about one situation without knowing all the facts. So, um

030there's a lot of things that have to be looked into for that. There's a lot of factors around kids. There's also a lot of times external legal pieces that are part of that, too. Um and and and again we talk about IEPs. We're talking about different kinds of things that are all that and and we have to kind of remove our feelings that we can't I'm a dad. You can't remove your feelings from that. Totally right. But you've got to and kind of look at both students and go we do have and you said that well Miss Henderson you know I believe that all kids have right to education but same thing we're in the same place. We believe all kids have right to education but these things happen. And so that's where they really

031do become very different. you know what what capabilities does that school have and we might get to a place that you just described where we have to make that choice or we have to make a change in schedule or give a kid a virtual class. I'm just saying but though I mean those hopefully it doesn't get to there that often but we're talking about an extreme case where we're in that situation. We obviously are going to try to make those students feel safe. Um, sometimes I'll say this too, and this is not reflecting on the speaker tonight, so I'm not saying that. But sometimes too, there's there's people who won't understand the full situation of what's going on and their perception is that I'm not talking about sexual assault. I'm talking about a fight or

032something like that that may take place. And there are different factors that are there too that both sides may not understand and we can't disclose to the other parent and and you know, maybe a student's special ed, maybe there's some other kind of thing that's that's a factor in there and we have to protect that student's right too. That's where it starts getting really complicated when you're dealing with a situation. Again, not like tonight's that's but in in those. So, sometimes people are frustrated because they don't understand maybe unequal consequences, how they see that or how can this happen and this still happen. Um, and it's like, well, because there's a lot of factors that go into that, too. Um, so we understand the frustration when that happens. We have to be able to to

033pull back, look at both students and try to try to to make sure they have their educational rights and make sure we're following law uh to make sure that happens. But um I would I say all that just to paint the full picture, but would say to you that we wouldn't say no, we would never remove a kid from class. That might be part of that safety plan or part of what we do in that situation for that student. Um we might have other things that we do before that to try to get to that. If that's not working, we would look at that, too. But um it's a little more fluid in process to see what can we do to help people feel safe. Um lots of times, honestly, the the the incident was

034described tonight would be something that would be probably a long-term suspension, right? And so that that student probably wouldn't be there the next day. Again, I don't know all the the factors of this case. Um you've got days going into a disciplinary hearing before that happens even that you can start the suspension and then go into the hearing at the school and then assign the discipline and you know they may be out 90 days or you know again depend on whatever that is. Um in tonight's situation I don't know what was unique about that that that did happen. That doesn't mean the principal or or whoever did anything wrong. There may have been other pieces to that. Um, but if we did find that procedures weren't followed, again, other folks know that, we follow back

035up with the school and we look at that. So, um, again, we're not trying to dodge the questions. Very empathetic to the situation, but it is very nuanced based on on all the factors that go into each discipline case. I really appreciate you all explaining all of that. Um, I think my concern stays. Um, and I hope that to see progress and progress in in this area because I've definitely had um more than a handful of situations over the last two and a half years that um either it didn't leave it didn't go above the school level until the parent contacted me or um the victim had to be moved by the parents choice because they were unsafe. and it was not a and the parent was able to move them to a private school

036and then just to just be done with it. And I think that you know sometimes then a safety plan having to be enforced often goes to the victim and the victim's parents to be able to enforce it. So, I wonder like what our process is on checking up on that safety plan and constantly enforcing it. Once again, I'll jump in and let you jump in, Dr. Brown, if you want to. So again, I mean depending on the severity of it, I mean we do have some students who have have created I mean who have um committed crimes and they have legal pieces and all the things you think about that happen with that. They might be in an alternative setting that you know again we have we have different measures around those. So again that

037kind of level of like a violent crime would be here. a safety plan for people who didn't get along or a breakup between two individuals or something like that might be something that's just handled at the school level and checked in on a regular basis. It might be an assistant principal that's pulling those students in or checking in. Might be a teacher who's doing that, but that could be all the way up to, you know, we have had students who get wanded and searched into a school, right? I mean, when they come into it. So, um I would say everything in and in between that is the checking in on the safety plan. uh if things aren't working, sometimes a parent calls and says, you know, a student may not say anything. They get home

038that night and say, I still don't feel safe. Can we do more things? So, it's it's fluid on how we keep revisiting that to try to make that happen. And it really isn't a one-sizefits-all. So, I don't know if you'd add to that, Dr. Brown. Thank you, Dr. Riswick. U So, yeah, I I would say everything that Dr. Ris said is it completely accurate and and yes we all are frustrated with some of these situations because there are different you know there we have to look at what is what is the legal side of things is there a crime been committed what is the school policy like is there is there a disruption to the school environment because of this issue in this case obviously there is then that's when we want to put a

039safety plan in place um you know it may be to your point if if someone like Dr. Risick mentioned it could be a boyfriend girlfriend thing sometimes that maybe we just handle at the school level. It may have not arisen to the level of a harassment or a bullying investigation and workflow. So those may be the cases where it doesn't get reported downtown because it's just handled locally because it's a you know a peer conflict for lack of a better term. You know that may be how it's categorized. Um, I will say when when we are made aware of situations, if it wasn't handled, if it wasn't reported properly, we do go out, uh, every employee in this district has mandatory bullying and harassment training every single year and we have them sign off on

040that at the school level and then those are reported to our school culture department. Uh, if if we find a a case where it's not handled appropriately, then we will go back out and retrain them and and have conversations. And again sometimes depending on the severity of the situation HR may be involved with a a discipline type situation with an employee. Uh so again situation by situation it it's handled different differently based on the uh the circumstances of that case. But yeah we I think we we do have a good system in place to track and follow and to provide safe environments. But like you said, there are going to be th occasionally those one-off situations where because you know we we have our as we talked before you we have we have our local

041schoolboard policies that we follow. Those are driven by law but on top of all that's federal law. So if if the aggressor even is protected by a certain class in federal law like an IEP uh IDEIDA as as Dr. Eiswick mentioned, sometimes they stay put. uh we we can't move them. Uh and that is frustrating. You're right. Uh but again, we in the end we we are bound by law. Uh and federal law trumps all of those laws and rules below it. And so sometimes there are situations where where a student will stay in and and and we have to do the best we can in that situation to provide the the safest and and most secure and and I do understand where a victim would still feel uncomfortable but you know we're we're at

042the we're at the mercy of the law in those cases those cases. Miss Templeton. Okay. Sometimes I think that my easy questions are not so easy. But um I had a question about sports and if someone has been suspended and um and the aggressor, are they allowed to continue to participate in school athletics? Thank you for bringing this up. Just because these are places like like we we in the American culture, we like to promote athletes to a place of high esteem and um I'm just it's just curious. I appreciate you because I was going to ask the same question. So I appreciate you bringing that up. Thank you Miss Tip. Madam Chair, uh I want to make sure I understand the question. So if so because there could be two answers. If something happens

043in like the athletic field of play, it is is the same as if they're at school. So if a student were to get in a fight at a ball game, it's the same as that. If a student is suspended from school, they're ineligible to play. So, I don't know if that answers both your questions asking either of those questions. Neither. Okay. Okay. Good. So, let me start over. Okay. Perfect. um if I mean in a situation um that even was just described by Miss Wilson um happened off campus was a sexual assault um and has not been through the court of law has not been through all the processes relatively new obviously the school is working on with title nine on protections etc and so forth um Is is the person accused of the crime

044allowed to continue in sports? Okay, that make that question makes sense. Thank you. I didn't answer either one of yours, so uh so I I would say this. Um there there probably is a factor and and Gary may have to help on this some too. If it happens outside of school, if it's happening in school and we you know we see a fight between two students, we have the tape on that. I mean the video, whatever. I'm aging myself. We have the video on that. We have, you know, witnesses. We have all that kind of stuff. We have all of the scene. We can move on that. Um there there are pieces of paperwork, reports, things like that that have to be reported to us if we don't have that. So, uh I I would

045I would imagine and it's been a while since I've been a principal, so I don't know the answer to this. Those you've been closer might know this, but you know, if it's we couldn't just go off hearsay of somebody saying, you know, there was a fight in my neighborhood yesterday. There's probably police report. We could probably get through security if there is one. Those sorts of things. So um there there is some like evidence or now no principal is going to ignore that if you just come they're going to take the precautionary measures and go okay that's great but before we would do discipline I mean we probably wouldn't do discipline of a student if it didn't happen there that's going to be a outside school happen on Saturday court kind of thing if there

046are if there is paperwork that comes like a restraining order of protection those are things we would from the courts we would look at um if if just a a parent comes in and says this happened over the weekend can you keep these kids apart. We would do that till we got more information to know kind of what was going on because again there's in those situations we don't have all the facts. We're relying on whoever standing in front of us saying that we have to protect the other student too. And in a case like this we wouldn't remove that other student from that classroom because we don't know you know who who's a victim, who's not. We don't have the details at that point. So we would want to keep every student safe temporarily

047till we got more information from some outside source that could give us that I think would probably be the most accurate. And if the the um Miss Bike, I'm feeling you on the terminology here. Um if the if the person who is being accused um is ultimately suspended for whatever reason, um and now I'm kind of veering off of what she was saying because I don't even know anything about the situation or in sports. It just kind of came to my mind. But the um if they are suspended in fall, can they play soccer in the spring? Does that make sense? Yeah. I don't Thank you. I We'll have to see. I don't know if Brian Brown's here or not. He could probably have some more issues. He's probably not. But I I was So

048So typically if a student is I'm I'm going to answer this two ways. Typically, if a student, going back to my old principal days, and it's been a while. So, typically, if a if a student is under any kind of suspension for violation of school rules or or policies, they're ineligible to play that day or or that day or that night or that week or however long that is. Um, now, uh, sports teams can have conduct and grade and all these kinds of requirements that are there, too. So, if something happened in the fall for a student and they were suspended, does that mean they won't be on the soccer team in the spring? I think I don't I don't think the answer is yes. If you've ever been suspended, you can't play. That kind

049of goes back to what the individual coaches and what they're kind and again a student might gotten suspended for saying a cuss word in class versus, you know, again, a sexual assault is very different, right? So those kinds of things. So all that would factor in, but there's not a hard fast rule. If you do this, you can't play extracurriculars or play in the band. It would kind of be back to again case by case. What happened? When did it happen? Uh what you know, were there legal issues with that? Like all those kinds of things would have to be taken into case. But I will say our coaches and and uh band directors and all our extracurricular, they have a pretty high standard because they believe you're representing the school when you go do

050those things. Uh and I appreciate that they do have that high standard. I really appreciate this discussion because I've struggled with this for a while. So Miss Bike and Miss Ton, thank you so much for this discussion. Miss Wilson, if you're around after the meeting, I don't know we have a lot of public forum speakers, but I would love to chat with you or somehow connect with you because as a mom, my heart goes out to you and I I I feel you and you are not the only parent who has come to me with this problem and how do we fix this? You know, we say we say we have zero tolerance for bullying yet we have aggressors in schools in classes with their victims and you know where do victims rights come in

051play? And maybe it's a societal issue I think too in our legal system. But you know, I had a parent too come to me and I saw the video of her daughter getting beat up and it was hard to watch and her daughter was back, you know, the aggressor was back in school and there was a safety plan in place and the principal did everything he could. He was did a phenomenal job. But with a school that has 2400 kids, how do you separate these two children? and she ended up taking all of her three kids to private school and that isn't fair to that family that we couldn't provide a safe environment for them. And so I I'm going to vote yes on this policy changes just because they're legal changes, but I think

052we need to continue this conversation because overall with the overarching issue, I just have a real um I don't I have a real issue with with this. Do we have any more discussion? All right. Well, with that, all those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. 7A. Approve grant agreement with the National Environmental Education Foundation for receipt of grant funds in the amount of $7,500 for South Middle School. Second. Motion by Miss Christie, a second by Mr. Triplet. Do we have any discussion on this item? Seeing there is none, all those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. 7B. Approve Tennessee Foundation for Agriculture in the Classroom Grant in the amount of $500 for South Middle School. Motion by Miss Christie, second by Miss Bike. Any discussion? Seeing there's none, all

053those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. 8A approved contract with USI consulting group for provision of 403b thirdparty administrative services for the term of March 1, 2025 through February 28, 2030 which may be extended for five additional years. Motion by Miss Christie, a second by Mr. Triplet, and I do believe we have public forum speakers on this. Thank you, Madam Chair. Brandy Gerald. Brandy, if you'll state your name and county residents, you'll have three minutes. Brandy Gerald, Knox County. There were several good questions in discussion on Monday night. We would like to address some of them now. Mr. Triplet asked, "If it's not broken, why fix it?" Miss Hemlgarn then went to on to say, "The district has not been out of compliance." After the Monday meeting, it is clear that you

054want to enhance and strengthen your compliance. We support that. This is possible without employees losing anything. When Reverend Butler asked if plan administrators and vendors are two different entities, Miss Hemlgarn stated yes. Vendors offer products and a plan administrator administers clients interactions with the products. This is accurate. Why then have we coupled two different entities into the same procurement? Does this not create a conflict of interest and a lack of transparency? Reverend Butler asked if we could have a single plant administrator and multiple vendors. Miss Hemblegarn stated that she did not know if we could do that at this point in the process. A no vote today would allow the system to do just that, seeking an independent plan administrator. The district would then be able to provide contracts of KCS choosing for vendors under

055one independent plan administrator. KCS would keep complete control. Reverend Butler asked if USI offers all of the products that Value Teachers offers. Miss Hemlgarn was not able to answer this. The answer to this question is no. USI offers a variety of mutual fund options with one fixed account, which means a guaranteed rate of return similar to a savings account. Mr. Cross stated that the that right now is at 3%. Value Teachers also offers a fixed account that is currently at 3.3%. And with different accounts at 5.3% based off of product and contribution amount. This is an example of how even if there are similar products, each company has different offerings within those same products. The question that was never answered Monday was, "Is a fixed index annuity the same as a fixed account?" No. Currently,

056our clients with a fixed index annuity have anywhere between 0% and 31.8% interest potential. USI does not have a fixed index annuity. As you can see, this is a very different. This is very different than a fixed account. We have policies with bonus features, lifetime income options, and more. We are a very different company than USI with very different products. Can we so easily displace over 2,000 employees without the product, but more importantly the company they now know and trust? I understand saying no today would create a longer process, but sometimes taking the longer road to get to the right destination is important. I ask you today to say no to the procurement. Thank you. Sandra Rocliffe. Sandra, if you'll state your name and county resident, you'll have three minutes. Sandra Rocliffe, Knox County. On

057Monday night, Reverend Butler stated that it feels like we are limiting those who we really want to bless. And then he corrected himself and said benefit. Bless is actually the right word there. We should be providing the very best for KCS employees. Although Miss Himlgarn stated that this would only limit choice and providers and not products, this is absolutely not true. KCS is able to have everything they're looking for. Employee satisfaction with vendor accountability and oversight with an independent third-party administrator. This will provide enhanced options for teachers and the protection the district is seeking. Miss Templeton stated that it is important that KCS knows what is offered and being said in their schools. And after talking to Miss Himmler, she was thankful the procurement was looking for everything that is being offered now and more.

058However, when Miss Himlgarn was asked what products USI would offer, she was unclear. And that is because the procurement was so narrow as to get one result. It placed no value on the indexed options. The procurement was for a mutual fund company only, not for an index provider. I am not sure how the answer to this question Monday night was yes when you are removing the options that 28% of your staff value. We agree 100% that the KCS district staff should know what is being offered and said, but it seems this goal has really not yet been accomplished. Miss Templeton asked the question, "If this procurement is not approved, does this open the door for any company to come into the schools if they have 250 clients and become a provider?" The answer she was

059given was yes. This is not true. The district is in control of the approved vendor list and can deny any company access to your schools. How would a company even get 250 employees if they did not have permission from the district to go into the schools? If you vote no on this procurement, KCS will continue to have full control of who the providers are for your district at all times, just as you always have. None of the questions um from board members on Monday night pertain to service for your employees. So I ask you, how many representatives from USI will be working in your schools? Not with the district office in the plan administration aspect, but with your frontline employees providing daily education and support. Ask yourself, how do you think Value Teachers has gotten

06028% participation? And why are all these emails rolling in? I ask you to start over on this procurement. It might be lengthy, but it is the right thing to do. Vote no. Thank you. Emily Samino. Emma, if you'll state your name and county resident, you have three minutes. Emily Samino, Knox County. Miss Fontno Ridley asked if the procurement scoring process could have been affected by the fact that Value Teachers is not a 4033b provider and a third party administrator. She said it feels like we are comparing apples to oranges. Value teachers similar to the majority of other 403 vendors is just that a vendor. We are not a plant administrator. We had to seek out a plant administrator to include in our procurement. We were able to include one of, if not the most reputable

061in the company. This was not valued by the procurement process due to KCS seeking one company that provided both. As you can see, the competition was not in their procurement. As stated, we are not implying that KCS is getting anything from the procurement process. However, how KCS put out the procurement was so exclusionary, it eliminated value teachers before the process even began. Miss Fontnau Ridley asked if clients of value teachers would be able to contribute privately to their account. Miss Hibblegard implied they would. That is inaccurate. The IRS regulates that clients are unable to move their 403b funds to a private account unless they are separated from service or 59 and a half. Did the district know this information before placing the procurement? This is very important as to how staff will be affected if

062they choose to freeze their account and keep it with value teachers. The lack of compounding interest will affect their retirement outcomes. Mr. Cross stated that employees will have significantly reduced costs with USI. I'm assuming he is comparing to other mutual funds. By now you know that we do not have fees. We have surrender periods. This would not result in a lower cost. There are some individuals that would prefer to have fees and not surrender periods and vice versa. However, to make the statement that they will have lower fees than valued teachers is not accurate. Will these mutual fund fees change if USI does not move 100% of our clients, 50%, or what about 25% of our clients? Because when asked if we would be able to keep our clients contributing to their value teachers account,

063Mr. Cross stated that their mutual fund fees would have to change. USI has a lot to gain out of this contract. We care about KCS staff and this procurement is just not in their best interest. If you have any doubt that the procurement would not benefit KCS staff, you should vote no tonight. Thank you. Thank you, Julia Whipple. Julia, if you'll state your name and county resident, you'll have three minutes. Yes. Thank you. Julia Whipple, Knox County. Miss Christie stated, "Fortunately, everybody seems to have had a great experience." Well, we agree since 2008. But this is not a lucky accident or a bullet dodged. This is a 17-year proven service record. So why would you remove a company with this kind of integrity and proven service? Look, we agree that accountability and oversight are very

064important, and we agree the district needs this. Value Teachers is very willing to go into a contract with KCS. No one has ever asked us. We have been forthcoming throughout the years regarding our products, how they work, and surrender periods. Many times over the last several years, our area manager, Brandy, tried to have meetings with Scott Bolton only to be consistently put off. They were never able to have the meetings. Value Teachers has been wanting district oversight and has actively advocated for an independent third-party plan administrator for years. Miss Henderson asked if USI clients would have penalties for transferring their funds in 5 to 10 years. If I may, this question does not address the heart of the issue. The question is, if KCS chooses a new vendor in 5 to 10 years, again, interrupting

065long-term investment strategies, would staff be affected? And the answer is yes. Anytime long-term investments are interrupted, the client is is affected. That's precisely why you need choice. The 403b is not the same as a 401k, which is a private industry ORISA retirement plan. This is a non-arisa plan with individual ownership. It is not a group plan. The district will not be throwing money at different companies just like before when you have a lot of different companies. KCS controls the number of vendors and who they are. The plant administrator helps to eliminate the processing issues and keep the compliance standard. Many districts with the same scope and size as KCS offer multiple 403 providers with their plan. Some examples of these districts are Memphis, Tennessee, Rutherford, Tennessee, Williamson, Tennessee, Charlotte, North Carolina, Valia City, Florida, Palm

066Beach, Florida, St. John, Florida, Greenville, South Carolina, Charleston, South Carolina, Prince George, Maryland, and I can go on and on. This is fairly standard for 403b plans. KCS is acting as if they do not currently have 403b providers, as if they are starting from scratch. In 2008, your district leaders, just like you, decided that Value Teachers was a reputable company worthy of being able to speak to your staff regarding their retirement benefits. They knew what they were doing. From everything that we have heard, we have kept our promise with no complaints. As Miss Christie says, "Thank goodness we have had a good experience. Why would you vote to get rid of that? If you were unclear on any of these facts or slightly confused for for the sake of your people, you must vote no.

067They need you to have their back. Thank you. Thank you, Matthew Gerald. Matthew, state your name and county resident. You'll have three minutes. Good evening. Matt Gerald, Knox County. Last 12 years I've worked in contract management with the last eight years specializing in proposals in contract management in the federal government. Knox County Procurement Division released the RFQ titled 403b, thirdparty administrative services. This procurement came with a caveat. The third party services were not truly third party, but the procurement described a bundled services of an administration company with a 403b mutual fund company. The procurement stated within it that Knox County will not accept alternate proposals in regards to the bundled services. By bundling these services together, some of the largest and most respected thirdparty administrators were not able to bid on this procurement because they

068are not investment pri providers. Consequently, an investment only company like value teachers did not do well because they are not a TPA. This would help explain the statement on Monday that value teachers did not score score well enough and win the procurement. From spending my time reviewing and proposing on various contracts, it is clear that if value teachers and other companies were not able to satisfy both sides of this requirement, they did not have a viable chance of winning the procurement. Bundle services in procurement like the one put out by Knox County are extremely rare. Out of the other nine largest school districts in Tennessee, six of the nine have an independent third-party administrator with an average of seven providers to each one of those school districts, including the largest county in the state. Bundled

069services are rare because it removes one of the checks and balances that a normal three-part system would follow, and that majority of school systems desire. A true third party is tasked with staying on top of the law, removing liability, and preventing any conflict of interest issues for the district and the providers. When bundled, those issues are more likely to rise. I mentioned that several of the largest and most respected TPAs in the investment investment industry were not part of the bid list. One TPA in particular carries 49 out of the 95 counties in the state of Tennessee as an independent TPA. They were not able to bid because of the restrictions set forth in this procurement. Bundled services eliminate the teachers option for what is best for them. A recent independent study by the National

070Tax Deferred Savings Association found that over 90% of teachers say it is important to have multiple providers so they are empowered to make decisions for their own future. This diversity of options includes a lifetime payment option with value teachers. There are currently hundreds of teachers that have chosen this option that are planning on a guaranteed paycheck every single month of their retirement. A yes vote tonight would freeze their contributions, lower their monthly benefit. Those teachers could be three to seven years from retirement. And now that option is reduced due to being frozen where it sits today. The teachers of Knox County have dedicated their service to teaching our next generation. You all have received so many voice concerns. the same teachers and staff that had zero input on this procurement and what's best for their

071future. Voting no tonight allows their voice to be heard and supported. Vote no. Go through the process to get a true third party administrator. Thank you. Kathy Gerald. Kathy, if you'll state your name and county resident. You'll have three minutes. I'm Kathy Gerald, a grandma in Knox County and a great grandma. Um, thank you for your work for the children in Knox in the KS KCS. Some valued teachers, clients have asked that letters of theirs be read written to you tonight. Read to you. First is from Kathy. Good evening. My name is Kathy Lions and I've been employed by the Knox County Schools since 2018. I'm a founding member of Harden Valley Middle School. I'm sorry I could not be present, but I'd like to share my thoughts and feelings with you. Brandy Gerald with

072Value Teachers has been an asset to Knox County Schools teachers, especially me. She's given me guidance over the past four to five years with my retirement accounts. She comes to our school every year and meets with staff and offers her knowledge and ongoing support. Bry is always willing to take the time to meet one one- on-one with me every school year. In addition, she also makes herself available to answer all my questions I about my retirement accounts via texts, phone, or email. She's even helped me outside of her work hours. She always makes time to explain my benefits to me and helps me understand how I can get the most out of my retirement. Brandy. Brandy collaborates with her colleagues to be sure she gives me the most updated correct information. I'm thankful to know

073Brandy and I appreciate her dedication and support for the Knox County school teachers. And from Anthony, I've been with Value Teachers for several years now and feel they've been very helpful in advising and helping me build my retirement plan. I love the fact that they'll come to me at a time that works with my schedule and explain to me what's going on with my funds. Any questions I have, they'll answer. It doesn't matter how many I have or if it's a repetitive question because I didn't quite understand previously. They're very patient, quick to help me out. I've had other advisors who wouldn't really pay attention to me or didn't seem to be prioritize me because I didn't have a great deal of money. Value teachers is the opposite of that. They're very respectful of my

074time. They don't make me feel embarrassed by the amount of money that I'm working with. They let me know that my options what they are and show me that the outcomes what can be made from the choices I make. I feel very in control of my funds. Please continue to keep them with Knox County Schools and allow this great service to stay. Your decision tonight, your choice, will either give your teachers the right to choose from more than one plan or it will relegate them to being a number among many. Your choice will affect many lives. Please don't pull the rug out from under them. Thank you, Thomas. Wright. Thomas, you'll state your name and county resident. You'll have three minutes. Good evening, Reverend. It's good to see you. I'm Thomas Wright, Knox County. I

075uh I'm going to talk quick, fast, and in a hurry because that clock's a ticking. This is the message I received. I called USI today because I needed to get some information. This is what I received back. This message is for Thomas Wright. You had called us uh USI consulting group Knoxville office and had questions regarding the change from board of education from value teachers to USA consulting group by an independent committee via RFQ. I don't know what that is. That was a request for qualifications. We've been asked to refer you to Knox County Board of Education if you have any further questions. That is a concern for me because I've been with Value Teachers for 14 years. They are building my retirement plan. I plan to retire in four to five years. They are

076doing an amazing job with my money. I am very frugal. Before I worked here in Knox County, I was a director, the executive director of physician recruiting, retention, and corporate training at an ER staffing agency here in town. Value Teachers and Brandy Drill will answer my call whenever I call them. They come to the school. They explain new options. They go through it with me. We talk about plans. Do I need to add here? Do I need to add there? I called the new company and I got this. I don't know who these people are. They've not been to my school. They have not been in contact with me. And I don't understand. Personally for me, competition is good. I'm sure everyone here agrees. So why not have both? Is there a law that says

077we can't have both? Is there a reason we can't have both? Value Teachers has over 2,000 teachers. 2,000. And Knox County is going to make a decision that says what I can do with my retirement. That's my retirement. That's not yours, Mr. Triplet. That's not yours, Dr. Brown. It's mine. And I will tell you, if I call Brandy Derell at 9:30 at night, she will answer her phone and talk to me because as a teacher in Knox County at the great school of Austin East Magnet High School, and it is a great school, sir, I'm busy. I'm also a 22-year military vet, so I I don't want my money messed with. I'll tell the board that right there, right now. I'm very serious about my investments. I'm very serious about having a portfolio that is

078diverse that's going to allow me to retire before I'm 70. And it's happening with them. You're making a mistake. If nothing else, let me recommend that you table this entire discussion, redisuss, refire, and research. Thank you. Have a good night. Thank you, Dave Gorman. Dave, if you'll state your name and kind of residence, you'll have three minutes. I love this. Hi. Uh, my name is Dave Gorman, Knox County. Uh I have my own thoughts that I had prepared to share but they uh I was asked if I could read the comments of somebody who couldn't be here tonight and my own experience really mirror or exceeds these comments. So uh on behalf of Elizabeth Cross who says that she and her husband have been teachers in Knox County for 13 years and have both been

079clients of Value Teachers for nine of those years. Value Teachers is a unique company that is committed to helping educators plan for their future. The communication and customer service is second to none. I also appreciate the fact that our uh value teachers agents are Knoxville residents with educational experience and children who are currently or previous uh uh KCS students. Each agent makes it a point to check in with us annually uh and review our many options when considering future retirement. They are experts at explaining the Tennessee state retirement benefits as well as promoting a diversified portfolio. Anytime that Elizabeth has had a question about her account or needed to make changes, Brandy has been a text or phone call away. Same with me. Uh I would have a reply or resolution by the end of

080the day. And as has been stated by several speakers tonight, uh 28% of KCS employees have and retain a value teachers 403b. So, um, that's that's pretty fantastic number and one that is proof enough that we need this group as an option for our county. Uh, Miss Cross and her husband has, uh, mentioned they're both KCS legacy employees. They're benefiting from the security and index growth option that they have with value teachers for their retirement savings. Uh, they've set up a lifetime payment option that is uh, apparently not available if you choose to use only one provider. In their personal experience, Brandy has been very easy to work with, has a tremendous respect for our administration and our school system. Uh, and Elizabeth mentions that she is so grateful for the knowledge and support that

081Brandy has provided to help her husband and her prepare for their future. It would truly be a disservice to KCS employees to choose any other company and not give uh your employees options. Thank you. Thank you, Celeste White. Celeste, you'll state your name and county resident. You'll have three minutes. I'm You can do that first. That makes sense. So fancy. I just don't even know what to say about that. I'm Celeste White. I live in Knox County and I uh have been teaching for Knox County Schools uh for years. Wow, that just kind of hit me. Um, just last week I uh received my statement from Value Teachers and I was really pleased because I'd hit a major milestone in the process of saving for my retirement. Um, I am one of those 2,00 teachers

082that has invested um, our money through value teachers. Um, I've been doing it for six years and I have never lost a penny. Got to cheer for that. Um, I'm kind of midstream in my saving process. Uh, even though I've been teaching for 31 years, I don't plan on, you know, retiring immediately. Um, but I don't want any interruption in my plan. I set this up years ago thinking that this would be, you know, what I could do for a long time. I I've had the same house and phone number for the last 28 years of my life. I don't like change very much. Um, so I really don't like the change to my retirement savings process. Um, I see my agent, Julia Whipple, on a yearly basis at least and the ability to sit

083down with her at my school um, anytime I want is and I have emailed her to make changes to my contributions and she's right there usually with cookies as well. Um, I don't pay them any fees and all my money goes to my account and not to commissions. Um, I don't want to move my company, my money to some company that I won't ever see or that talks to me in the fashion that um, you experienced when you called uh, that company. Please vote no on this pro procurement. Please help us keep value teachers and please help me keep my money where it is and growing the way it has been for the past six years. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. That concludes public forum. Thank you, Miss Christie. Thank you, Madam Chair. I

084just have a couple of comments and um I'll probably make everyone in this room mad at me. So, one of one of my concerns and just know this is coming from the perspective of someone who's always worked in the private sector and the experience is very different when you're retirement vendor changes. Um, you know, I I hate that we are at a place where we are pitting two companies against each other very publicly. Um, I'm sure there are merits to both. Um, unfortunately, absent a contract, all I have to go on with value teachers is what value teachers reps tell me. I have nothing hard in front of me as far as um phase out periods, penalties assessed, things like that. Um clearly they're lovely people and very good at their jobs and they're very

085good at selling these policies. Um again, that's the information I have in front of me because we do not have a contract. I know Miss Templeton, you had said that, you know, if it did move forward, you would like to see the start date changed. So, I'm just wondering if it would be possible to maybe defer this for a couple of months and give value teachers time to send board members the actual information that they share with their clients. Also, it would give time to renegotiate that start date. I do think it's unfair to teachers um if if we were to move forward with it. I think it would be unfair to teachers that uh are currently in the process of retiring this year without finishing out the year. And I know I've had some

086reach out to me about wanting to roll over um unused sick days to value teachers, which apparently could not happen if uh this contract passes tonight with the March 1st. I think that right is that correct? So I mean even for me to consider it I would still want that date changed. So I'm just wondering if it would be possible to now that we've been through the procurement process to maybe gather some more information and defer it for a couple of months. That would just be my personal preference. it. Thank you, Miss Christie. Miss Mike. Thank you. Um, if Miss Christie is making a motion, I would second it. I will be happy to make a motion to defer this until our July. Would I I had asked Miss Gorn, Miss Gorn, could you weigh

087in on maybe a good time of year to defer this to That was going to be my question. So, Madam Chair, Miss Christie, if we are going to implement for the next school year, I I don't know that we would be opposed to deferring probably bring it back back to you all before July though um so that we can prepare, but we can we can work on the maybe we can work on the effective date of the contract. So, I would like to make a motion to defer until June. It's a new motion by Miss Christie, second by Miss B. on that to defer. Okay, I'm gonna Does that put a stop to conversation to continue conversation about this right now or does that What does that do? Nothing. Yeah, we can we're now still

088discussing. We just have a new motion for Yeah, we can keep discussing this even though we're not going to vote on it until Oh, no. We have to vote on that motion to defer. And if we defer, does that stop conversation? Well, we'll have the discussion right now and then we'll vote then we'll vote on the deferment. Yes. Thank you. Yes. Um, and I just want to add, I completely agree with Miss Christie, and you know, I mean, there have been times where I feel like I have begged people to call their representatives and or email or anything and maybe two, five, 10 people, but I can't even um I haven't been able to count all the emails that I've received. And so, you know, and I know teachers are busy, but for whatever reason,

089you know, they feel strongly about this and um so that's why I think that this needs more time for us to look at. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Spike. We have a lot of lights. Miss Morgan, you're Thank you, Madam Chair. So, I think I listened to what everybody was saying Monday. I was quiet then. Uh, I definitely think it is a problem that we are doing business with anybody we don't have contracts with. And I know that this is an ongoing issue that Dr. Risewick and his staff have come into in their leadership. And I do very much appreciate um your all's work to correct that. I think whether it's um the clothing center or a retirement company or a construction company. I made that last one up. I hope next month we don't

090have this with a construction company. Uh, I think we have to have contracts with anyone we're doing business with. That's just good business. And so, this does need to be remedied. And, uh, Miss Himmler, I appreciate your work to do that and to to get us, uh, into a better place. I also appreciate your all's efforts to, uh, fulfill your fiduciary responsibility and looking out for our staff. I know that that is the intention here and um, I do appreciate that very much. I think that as a board we need to probably look at the policy so that we don't find ourselves in a situation like this in the future as well. Um so Miss Cotney pulled for me a couple of the policies that could potentially uh contain where we could we could discuss

091this and see if there's something we as a board can put in policy to help uh either in this situation or in the future. So, for policy, it'd be D190 and G190. So, I would like to I'm definitely in favor of tableabling this because I think there's a there's more we can discuss. Um, and I would like to ask if we can put these on at policy review to discuss uh and figure out if there's a way we as a board can address this through policy um or what we need to put in there to to help guide this uh for now and the future. And and I do think this is again I like that this is being remedied. I think we have to fix the contract situation. Um I also don't think the

092part I struggle with is is the fact that it will negatively impact so many of our staff and that is not you know something that I want them to have to feel you know the pain for. I think that kind of goes in line with recruiting and retaining the best educators and and I think that's an important thing we take into account too. So all four tableabling, I love that and would love to discuss the policies more. So Miss Morgan, we can put those on policy. D190 and G190. G1, thank you. G190 also because Miss Cotney is so amazing, she did pull administrative procedure, which is APD190. Um, so we could kind of take a look at those things and see where they stand. Point of order, please. Yes. Can we clarify the motion because

093I've heard tableabling and I heard a different word here. Right. So the motion is to defer. So we need to keep the conversations to deferring. So what are we deferring to the the contract? We would defer voting on the contract tonight until June. So is that the same thing as tableabling? Yes. Correct. I will change the word table to defer. That is what I meant. Mr. Dler. Thank you, Madam Chair. Reverend Butler. In this board's parlance, I it probably is the same Reverend Butler, but uh but but the original motion was defer. So So what word did you just let you parlance? You like that? So uh I heard that's just a John Wayne movie. So So the board should be sticking with defer at this point. You're right. Yeah. So we will vote on

094that after this discussion to defer to defer the contract contract to Yeah. to about June. Miss Font Ridley, you're up. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um Miss Bike, uh as of Monday, it was over 80 emails and then we've gotten more since then. I just want to clarify that. Um And thank you, Miss Christie. I appreciate your motion to defer. Um I think making a hasty um decision on something that impacts such a large number of our faculty and staff um is is a little too fast because I mean this kind of snuck up on me as well and I was one of their um customers and they like everybody has said I can attest they are there when you need them. me not being a financial minded person. You can see my checkbook that I

095haven't balanced since I started teaching. They helped me understand a lot and helped me understand what was going to happen when I retired and what I could do with it and everything. So, um I just want to say I appreciate your your motion quite a bit and I will I will be supporting it. Miss Templeton. Sorry, I feel like I caught you off guard there. Yeah, I know. Okay. Okay. Saying you cut um Miss Okay. I thought you were actually speaking to her um after you said my name. Okay. The um I agree to defer. I'm start with that. Um I feel illprepared to vote on this. Um, and I do have some thoughts. Um, I did email and I try to email everyone back, but I have been overwhelmed um, with the number of

096um, emails, which tells me that we're affecting a a lot of people in a very real emotional and physical way. And um, and when it comes to teachers, I think that we need to take that into um, great consideration. Hence the need for the deferment. Um what I thought was interesting, I did reach out um and just ask like give me a ballpark figure on how much these you and I apologize. It might have been Miss Gerald. I cannot remember. I did not write it down. I apologize. Um I asked you know what the percentage um of the separation would be the surrender fees. And I think she said anywhere between 1% and 10%. And those percentages obviously vary based on how much somebody has in an account. So I reached out and just asked

097one provider what that might mean. And she of course doesn't have access to everyone who has accounts and um value teachers, but her list alone was $750,000. That is substantial. And I know that that's not one person and that's extended over a third of the teachers, but um the largest was $10,000 that somebody might be penalized to move their money to another account. And I recognize that um this is a penalty imposed by value teachers, but it has been um you we are being asked to vote on a situation that would therefore kind of force their hand on that because of compounding interest and their retirement and how these things work. So I think that needs to be taken into consideration as we look at a new vendor. um the overall impact on the individual

098teachers who hold these accounts um because I agree um with what Miss Morgan said that um we have phenomenal teachers and we um have just done historic raises. So kudos to those of you who were on the board a year ago. Um and and we want to we want to caretake them um into the future and allow for the best possible outcome. And um I do I I think that there is a um I guess it falls down into a question of having a separate administrator and provider roles as opposed to allin-one. And Miss Himmogard, can you help me understand um two questions? What is the benefit to having them all in one? And if we did separate the two and had an administrator, could we have multiple providers? Those are the two questions. Is

099there a benefit to having them combined? And then can we do both? Madam Chair, Miss Templeton, uh thank you for the question. I will uh say that you know when when the district started out on this process our intent was to provide the greatest protection and the greatest benefit to our employees. Um like Miss Christie said the intent was not to pit two companies against each other which I I think is is what has happened unfortunately. Um and when we when we started this process we didn't know who the successful bidder was going to be. We didn't know who was going to bid on it. We invited all current and previous vendors to to do that. So I will um I would I would like to say that to reinforce that that the intent here

100whether it is the board approving this contract either either now or um in a few months or if we um if the will of the board is is to ask us to revisit um our intent is to provide the greatest protection and the greatest benefit to our employees. We sought to combine the two. So, a third party administrator and the provider together um to provide the the greatest uh the the greatest benefit by way of cost to our employees um but also um like like I said Monday to provide the competition at the procurement level um and not in the the sales to our employees directly. Um and and I've heard the feedback that we've received today and and via email um that may disagree with that. Um but I would say those are the

101the primary reasons. Your second question, could we have separate? So could we have a third party administrator and then also award contracts to vendors? The answer to that is yes. We we would have to I will say we would have to restart. Yes. But but yes, thank you, Miss Templeton. Mr. Triplet. Yes. Couple questions. This this procurement does not run out. There's not a timetable on it, right? We don't have to start this over. Yeah. After that, that's a good question. After I said yes to Miss Christie, um I thought that maybe I should defer to Mr. Dupler and potentially Mr. Meyers um on whether that time period of of deferral would be acceptable process. Are we already in a position? Do we have to start over if we wait that long or Yeah, Mr.

102D, you may be Mr. Triplet, Madam Chair. Um, and I think Mr. Myers would have to, you know, have the specifics, but it it's been my experience in the past that when a procurement is um is finalized that there is certainly a a time limit on that, usually between 60 and 90 days, but I think he can he can address the specific. Hello, Mr. Myers. Yeah. Okay. Thanks, Mr. Myers. So, when when does that officially run out? I don't know when this was officially approved. And we're making you walk all the way up. I won't get my glasses. You embarrassed me last time. Matt Myers, Knox County Director of Procurement. Um the intent to award was issued January 27th. So, so 90 days from so if we defer we will we are automatically just saying

103we're going to go back through we defer till June we're just going to go back through procurement is that correct missard I believe that's what I understand Mr. buyer saying we could bring back in April. So we are not I just want to so we need to figure out what we want to do. If we want to defer we have you know we have a limited time to defer. If we are voting to defer we're saying let's just start over. And I also think that if we are going to ask him to start over, we need to make a decision collectively and say, "Hey, we're going to defer with the or we're going to vote no with the request that they split the two if that's what we want or if we're content with them

104making the decision on that." Um, you know, obviously no matter what happens, whether we vote if we vote no and we ask them to split it and it's an administrator that doesn't provide investment options, that still doesn't guarantee value. teachers will be approved by that third party administrator, right? That third party administrator will then have to choose what providers that administrator allows in. But if we choose to do that, that's fine. But whatever we do, if we're going to defer, um, can we do it in April? May May, let me make a clarification, too. Typically, our solicitations will say 90 days with, you know, approval with us and approval from the awarded vendor. if they are willing to extend that. We have done that in the past. That has been our practice. Negotiations take longer

105than expected. Um, one that comes to mind was the uh uniform development ordinance that the county has done with advanced knock that went over 90 days. But so with approval from both parties, we could do that. So here here's my recommendation. If we can do this, I would prefer just to move it to May because if we if if they'll both agree to that because if we vote them vote no and we want to have a contract by when does when does it start? When does the next contract start? July. We don't we don't have a contract that would start, but ideally close in time to a break in a school year. Mhm. So, when would we want to have a new contract with a new vendor should this one get voted down? And how

106how long does procurement take? Right. The the fall is is when like if should this one get voted down? I I was I was uh answering the when would we want a contract like this in place? Um that would be ideally by the by the start of the new school year. But if should we go back through the process, um that that would likely take several months. So is June enough time to get a new third party or provider? Is if not? Well, I guess what date would give us? Because just to be honest with you, we don't need three months, you know, like we could say, you know, a month or two, whatever. How long would you need to if if this gets voted down, how long would you need to find a new

107We we typically like three months simply be for the fact that the RFQ or any of our solicitations have to be on the street 21 business days. So that's a month right there. You know, depending on the number of submitts and the evaluation committee, you know, how soon they can get together, how complex they are. um time you do that and get them evaluated, get it awarded, get it negotiated, get it to, you know, board agenda. Uh it it can be a three-month process. So would May, if we voted in May, would that be would that give you enough time to get things ready by to have a contract to you by May? No, we if we if we defer this till May to give us time to think about it and if we let's

108say we vote no in May, you take three months all of May, June, July, you guys get a contract in July to bring to us. Is that enough time or do we need to do it in April? Well, I'll whatever the will of the board is, we will make that work. I know you will. But but I think that if their vote was in March, realistically, we wouldn't. I'll I'll defer to Mr. Myers on this. Realistically, we wouldn't be able to bring a contract in July, possibly not even August. So, what if we do it in April? Will that give you enough time or you still is March it? And we're we're already crossing the threshold now. I I won't say March is it because regardless of the direction we go, we know that we

109are going to continue down a path of increasing the protections for for our employees and the benefits for our employees. And I don't want to constrain a a time limit around that. I don't want to force a decision around that time limit because we want to pursue that path either way. So if it if it is after the start of the school year when when we land on what that looks like, then we will we will make that work and bring a proposal um to you all. So I I don't want to I don't want to set a d a deadline that's so hard um that it prevents the intent of what we're trying to do. Yes. Are you comfortable amending that to to April? I don't have I'm not married to the date. My

110thought process was teachers that were actively in the process of retiring could finish out the school year. But they will either but I again I just feel like we would all be better served and our teachers would be better served if we had a little more time to process it. So So is April, are you okay with April? I'm fine with April. Are you okay with April? So we'll we'll amend that motion to April. Defer to April. And then the other question, uh, I think we pro maybe we send questions to Miss Cotney that we want or do we send them directly to value teachers? There were some questions, Miss Christie, that you felt like you wanted answered. I I would just like I would like us all to get those answers. I would just

111like to see the con the actual contracts like with the terms that teachers sign as far as penalties or fees or phase out periods and that just for my own personal miss. Can you make sure the board gets all those? Point of order. Yes, sir. We have a motion on the floor. Yes. And in order to change that motion, it would have to be amended. And so, and and I would like to speak to the motion before you complete. I don't disagree with you, but I just would like to speak to it before we go through another action. Another motion. Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. If I may. Uh, first of all, I do appreciate the motion to defer because I don't think we we as a board are at a point to really make

112a decision that would be in the best interest of of those who who this these uh F3Bs really belong to and that is the teachers. This is this they do not belong to us. They belong to the teachers and so making the best decision for them. I do agree 100% that we want to protect uh the integrity of anything we offer and we want to protect the integrity of what they are receiving. Uh I do think and and uh Mr. Triplet I think you're right that we want to make sure we understand why we delaying. I hate for us to delay for 3 months and then be in the same place we are now. So I do think we need to think through what is it that we want to happen whenever how long the

113delay is or the deferment is. I'm sorry. uh how long it is that we make sure we do the things we need to do so when we get there we have the answers we need to have. Uh I myself think that based on my experience and and and most of my experience uh if not all of it has been with either nonprofit or government. And so, uh, having an independent third party administrator, uh, I've always, uh, emphasized independent because it's hard for you to check yourself. So, to me, when you bundle it, I know that bundling it may cost may may save you some money, but if that independent third that third party administrator is truly third party, then they can't be second and third. They got to be third. So, I think that's one

114of the things there. I do also think with the 28 uh percent that's already with one vendor and it's going to be a severe hardship on some folk at an age and just being honest, I take it personal. I'm 65 years old. So, when you get this close to retirement, now I may not retire for another 20 years, but when you get this close to retirement, these dollars make a difference. And so that's why it's valuable. The other thing is one of the reasons that teachers keep on teaching is because they get a salary and benefits and they love teaching and so benefits this is a very important part of what what what they have been looking for and they've done and then also uh having the vendors who will be overseen by the independent

115third party gives us that protection that we're seeking and also gives the flexibility. But with all that said, what do we do between now and then to know if we're going to have because if we if we defer it, will we be coming back to this same motion? Because if if we don't if we answer these questions and then we vote no, then we got to start here. So that was my only hesitance about deferring and deferring longer then we need to answer these questions is because uh if we defer for 3 months or five months or whatever and we and we and we vote no on it still we're back at the same we back at restarting. So that would be my question is what would be that? I'm not sure if it might

116be best to defer it for just enough time to get the answers we need and then we come back we can be more sure what what we feel that would be the best best thing to do. Mr. Dupler. Thank you, Madam Chair. Uh so it's my understanding that at this point uh the uh board member who made the motion, Miss Christie, and the board member who seconded, Miss Bike, have now agreed to to make their motion to defer to April. So So, so the current motion is to defer it till April. And to Reverend Butler's question, uh this this same motion would then be this exact same motion would be brought back in April. And then do we need USI's um agreement to that the contract that they're okay with that to bring their contract

117back in April? Like how does that work? Well, I mean as as as Mr. Myers indicated, there's you know there's 90 days. So if they're so so if that 90day period Well, I don't It' have to go past that 90 days for a It would be It would be slightly past Well, hold on a minute. I'm just Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It would be slightly past. So, I mean, you know, so I mean, USI would need to agree to that as well. Okay. Okay. Gotcha. Mr. Mgorn, uh, Madam Chair, Mr. Dupler, I was just going to add to that. I I understood that that one charge to the district before then before we bring this back is to negotiate a start date that would eliminate the impact on employees that are retiring this year and

118bring bring that back. Okay. Okay. Thank you for that. Uh, I don't count. I count uh January 27th, right? February 27th is 30 days. March 27th is 60 days. April 27th is 90 days. And you're saying you're bringing back in April. So that's within a 90-day window. We would, if I may. Mhm. Uh, Reverend Buller, I think I think you'd still want something from USI indicating that they they understand what the situation is because what contracts do from from the board after it's approved by the board, then it goes to county commission. County commission meets later in the month and then, you know, things like that. So, I mean, just just to make sure I because there could be a you know, a few days, but I mean it's not going to be a great

119deal of time. Okay. Thank you for answering that, Miss Bike. Thank you. Um, I think that I if I had to vote on the original motion that I would be tonight I would be voting no because I don't have enough information on, you know, like the impact and the actual impact and what this is doing to our teachers. But I also appreciate that, you know, I don't want that to immediately affect teachers that are retiring this year. And I'm not prepared to make a yes vote on this at all. So just want to put that out there. Thank you, Miss Fontner Ridley. So when we Thank you. When we talk about April, are we talking about the April board meeting? Yes. Yes. And so how much time has this um procurement been settled before we

120got the information that it was going to be on the um that it was going to be on this current agenda? Yes. Mr. Myers, you want to pop back up? The notification of intent to award, excuse me, was returned to us January 27th. By the time we got the um unsuccessful letters out, got a contract written. We had missed February's board agenda. That agenda is is yeah, a little early. It's actually in January, probably a week before the intents came back. Okay. So that's why you that's why we have it today in March. So everything that had So January 27th was past the date of when you have to have everything turned in. So that's I understand that. So I guess my question is um so how much time I mean I don't know again

121not a financially minded person. I feel like um don't have enough time to actually learn everything before the next board meeting because they have to get their information to us. We have to process it, maybe talk to them, maybe talk to the the person, the company with the contract and find out, you know, just kind of what the whole situation is. It just seems like a really short window. Okay. No more discussion on this. Okay. Miss Cody, could you read the new motion? Do you have that? I believe so. So, uh, the motion was made by Miss Christie to defer this contract to the April 2025 board meeting and it was seconded by Miss Bike. Thank you. And could you take a roll call vote, please? Thank you, Madam Chair. Dr. Butler, pass. Miss Templeton,

122yes. Miss Fontino Ridley, no. Miss Bike, yes. Miss Morgan, yes. Mr. Triplet, yes. Mr. Wright, yes. Miss Christie, yes. Miss Henderson, yes. That's seven yes votes and one no vote. Miss Dr. Butler, did you want to change your pass vote? I will continue to pass. Thank you, sir. Motion passes. Item 8B, approve Microsoft Campus Education Volume Subscription Licensing Agreement for provision of informationational technology services for a three-year term at an approximate annual cost of $650,000. Second. Motion by Miss Christie, second by Mr. Triplet. Do we have any discussion on this item? Seeing there is none, all those in favor say I. I. Any oppose? Motion passes. 8 C approve contract with Accenture LLP for a middle school experience consulting project at a cost of $230,000. Second. Motion by Miss Christie, second by Mr. Triplet. Do

123we have any discussion on this item? I should say I'm very excited about this study. Cannot wait to see what middle school looks like. Seeing there's no discussion, all those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. 9A approve Knox County School's adoption of textbooks for science. Second motion by Miss Christie, a second by Mr. Tripley. Any discussion? Seeing there is none, all those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. 9B approve fund balance designation in the amount of $9,970,000 for science textbooks. Second. Motion by Miss Christie, a second by Mr. Triplet. Any discussion? Seeing there is none, all those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. 9C approve revised 2025 2026 school year calendar. Second. Motion by Miss Bike, a second by Mr. Triplet. Any discussion? Seeing there is

124none, all those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. 9D. approved memorandum of understanding with Knox County, Tennessee for transfer of the former rule high school property from Knox County and design, construction, and operation of a new school. A motion by Reverend Butler, a second by Miss Christie. Do we have any discussion on this item? Seeing there is none, all those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. 9E. Approve resolution in support of Tennessee House Bill 1124 dyslexia screening. Motion by Mr. Triplet, a second by Miss Christie, Reverend Butler. Uh, thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for submitting this proposal. I had one question. Mhm. And depending on the answer may be a proposed uh amendment. Uh and it's and it's at second well second page I printed out now.

125Therefore, be it resolved. Uh okay. Okay. Okay. Sorry. Yeah. Go on. that the Knox County Board of Education strongly supports passage of the House Bill 1124 uh which amends Tennessee conference Tennessee code annotated to ensure every student received dyslexing. Mhm. Uh and then the next one uh that uh now therefore be resolved that Knox County Board of Education recommends the legislation be amended to allow other stancially similar methods to be used in addition to the Orton Gillingham method and um so can those two be flipped? And the reason why I asked that question is the way I initially read it, it was understanding that you had to have both of those in order for it to be recommended. But if you But I'm not sure. So you want to flip those two. So the amendment

126to the legislation is above then supporting. Yeah. And then when you put the supporting there, it tells us we're supporting that with the amendment. I'm not sure if that changes the meaning. No, I think I think that yeah, because the intent is, you know, to just allow other since we are using other methods that, you know, to amend, we're asking them to amend it. So, I think I mean, Mr. Dup, unless unless there's a legal implication, I'm totally fine with that. No. Uh, thank you, Madam Chair, Reverend Butler, I I mean, I do believe that's a that's a uh a good move. And u I will say that that Reverend Butler that that the insure language was taken out. Um Miss Henderson and I discussed this this afternoon and our office does not does not

127take a position one way or another on on on pending leg legislation, but did want to be accurate as far as the language. Uh so uh that that language now says uh you know which which amends Tennessee code annotated to strengthen the requirement that every student receives dyslexia screening but but again swapping those swapping those out is a good move too. Yes. Okay. That sounds good. Thank you Reverend Betler for that. Miss Templeton. Um, just in a practical question, if the bill was changed in the way that we just asked for it to be changed, does it change what we're doing? Because we already because we already do these things, right? So really, this is ensuring that across the state of Tennessee, dyslexic kids are being seen and cared for. Yeah. And just reinforcing that

128it's important. We're already doing this. So, but I think the reason why we recommended the change was so that we could continue to do what we're doing, right? Because we are using other Yeah. With that amendment things we discussed on Monday, which Right. Yeah. With that amendment, we're asking them, hey, you know, we're doing this, but we're asking for an amendment to also use materials or methods that are similar, right? Yeah. Okay. I just wanted to clarify that because I know Dr. Brown is doing all the work. Yeah, Dr. Brown. Yes. Thank you, Miss Tim. Madam Chair, uh yes, we we do we have mandatory screenings for all students three times a year uh with our universal screener. Uh and additionally, we do currently use some programs that are in accordance with Orton Gillingham method,

129right? Miss Miss Morgan and then Miss Yeah, the Miss Bike. So, following up on what Miss Templeton said, which this is not why I turned my light on originally, I do think that this is a great way to encourage other districts to do the things that Dr. Brown and his staff have implemented and are working on. And I think this is cohesive with the resolution to become a model district for special ed. So, I think this is great and I thank you, Madam Chair, for bringing this to us. I know um you've talked about your daughter with dyslexia. I have two daughters with dyslexia and uh I think it's super important that we are addressing it and I do also want to commend our staff because I've seen a difference in even from my sixth

130grader to my third grader the things that have changed in the last several years especially the last year or two and I know I've talked with a lot of staff last week and this week who are using the screeners and doing the things and routinely screening our students and We're seeing a difference. We're our data is showing it and it's it's helping and so thank you guys for doing the work and um we'll keep pushing towards being a model district. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Morgan, Miss. Thank you. Um, yeah, I'm I guess I, you know, am struggling a little bit because I think kind of Miss Templeton's uh question kind of pinged my brain of if if we are opening this up then then what is that changing? If this bill does change to

131not limit these, you know, the method used, then that is not changing what we're doing or asking us to do anything. And I don't think that we have an authority to tell other districts or or to I think that's a little bit of overreach. Um, but I get wanting to ask our legislators, you know, to to do something. I guess I'm just really confused that if if we open this up, like what is what is the difference um between what is already in place in law and and what this is asking for. Does that make does that make sense that question? Yeah, Miss Templeton, go ahead and then I'll I'll chime in. Yeah. Um, I think it's important to make the change to the law that's being put forth in the House. I think that's

132why we're doing this is to say that this is an excellent way to treat dyslexia. And we're saying as a district, you're right. is an excellent way to help kids with dyslexia, but we also need to make sure that there are other methods included in the bill that can be incorporated to help kids with dyslexia. Does that make sense? So, what we're saying is we're glad you're addressing dyslexia. Thank you for doing that. Um, Rep. Farmer, is that who I think? But what we want is for them to expand on that to allow the things that we're doing as a model Yeah. No, so I understand that. But I guess like in the in the current laws and as they are without this, if House Bill 1124 is amended to open up and allow more

133methods, what is the difference? Does that if that law opens up, does that change what's currently in place? And maybe that might be a question for Mr. Jupler. You're saying from the law from 2016 versus this new legislation, proposed leg legislation. Yes. And and the things that because as I understand some of the things that we've been doing, the changes from 2021 and then 2023 that I think are a part of the law. this if this is if House Bill 1124 is amended that it wouldn't be different than those. So the new the legislation from 2016 and I don't have my notes for Monday night. I should have brought them with me. Um my understanding is in the act in the current law from 2016. The only students that are screened in that law are

134K through I want to say or it's limited. It's not all of where we do K through eight. The 2016 law is not K through eight. Okay. So, this would the new law would expand that. And in this we're telling the legislators, hey, you know, can you use these other methods, too? So, we're telling them that instead of them limiting us from what we're doing. Does that make sense? Kind of. Yeah. Sorry, I'm I'm still wrapping my mind. Monday night, we had a great discussion and I think, you know, I think it's great that we're working through this. Okay. So I guess then that pings a question and maybe this is to Dr. Brown or others in his department that is what we're doing right now going above and beyond. Thank you Madam Chair. My

135answer to that would be no. We are currently following the law. Um so I think there's a couple things we have to consider here. Um and and again I Mr. Mr. Dupler and I have spoken briefly about this resolution and this House bill. Um, so there's two different things when we're talking about dyslexia. There is a diagnosis of dyslexia, which is a, you know, a medical diagnosis. I think some of you all have shared that you've had family members that are diagnosed by a doctor. You bring that diagnosis in and then we identify them with a specific learning disability which falls under IDEIDA and they develop an IEP. Um what we're talking about here are screenings for characteristics of dyslexia. So that's a part of the RTI process. So it's outside of the realm of

136special education. Um it is just like we would these universal screeners we give every student. We identify that they have certain specific deficits in reading known as characteristics of dyslexia and then we address those specifically. Um again I've not read the 2016 law. Mr. Dupler may be able to chime in on that, but we did change it. I I do know that in 2016 it was the parents responsibility to bring that to the school district's attention. That changed in 21. Now the school district has these universal screenings. And then in 23, we implemented the ILPD process, which is the individual learning plans for students with characteristics of dyslexia. So again, that's creating that plan that supports them and make sure that we're addressing those needs. So um the simple answer to your to your question

137uh will this change what we are doing or will are we um going above and beyond is no. So are we the changes from 21 and 23? We're not required to do those. We required to that that we have the um putting in the ILP ILPD. Yes. That was a requirement that was that was brought in 23. Okay. Uhhuh. And then the change that we made in 21, the 21 is when when mandatory screenings became required for all students. Um for what ages or what grades? We screen all students K through 12. We have different methods. We use AIM A as webs plus in K through eight and in 9 through 12 we use an early warning indicator that helps us determine that students are struggling and falling behind. Is that the requirement? The requirement

138I believe is n is K through eight. K is a requirement. Yeah. Oh okay. So yes maybe in in ninth grade and again you I shared the numbers with you all. You saw that the numbers in 9 through 12 are very small. Obviously with anything we want to identify as soon as possible get students to help and close that gap so that they're not continuing to lag behind because we know that when students have gaps in their learning that as other children are learning new material, they're still trying to close that gap so they can access the material. So that that's where we start to get the separation of of what they can attain. Okay. So sorry this just keeps bringing more questions. I do have a little bit of clarification for you too on

139the two laws. So I got that. So the current law says dyslexia screenings may be requested may be requested by parents or schools. The new law says dyslexia screening must be provided. So it's a difference between optional and required. So this would require that kids are screened. Okay. So, hopefully that helps a little bit. Okay. Um, yeah, I forgot what I was going to ask. Sorry, I thought that clarification might help. Yeah, I'm just Oh, I got it. Um, okay. So then, so then the numbers that were shared when we implemented and so we have numbers for the last two years. Um, what was the change? What was implemented to start having those numbers? The creation of the ILPD. Okay. And so those are those are students that have an ILPD. Correct. Because they have

140the characteristics of dyslexia. That's correct. In identifying them, have we seen um been able to see more growth in what we've implemented for them? I don't know. Is there a measurable? Yeah, I I don't know that again that that would be a case case by case situation. I I do know in talking with Miss um Jones who was not able to be here tonight. Uh she she says, you know, we have implemented especially this year a new uh quick phonics and a quick spelling assessment which have been additional data points that have enabled us to really dig down to specific uh needs that students have and that has allowed us to address those and then move students out of um intervention. I mean obviously any any supports that we provide students our goal is to

141provide the support they need and then to step away and let them be independent on their own. And I think the new assessments that we have added and again that's been a lot of the work that we talked about with the coherence of mater materials and and um high quality instructional materials with the academics department those are screeners we're using uh to to more deeply drill down and get information. So I would say yes, as we continue to add things and we refine our processes, we're probably seeing better results. Okay. Because we have seen students this year go into intervention, get the intervention and the support they need and actually be able to exit out of interventions. Okay. Thank you. Can you and Dr. I I want to ask you a question because I'm um

142so there's an IEP and then tell me what the other thing you're talking about that an ILP an individual learning plan. So those are are plans that we produce. Um they're housed in the same place in T and Pulse just like an IEP is. Uh but these are for um interventions. They're for ELLL students. There are lots of different things we develop ILPS for. But again, it's similar. It's just not under IDA because there are Gotcha. There are Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. Thank you for that. Okay. Is there any more discussion on this item? All right. Seeing there's none, we'll go ahead and vote. All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Right. We will move on to public forum. Mr. Triplet. Very good. We do have public forum. Ezra

143Leita Robinson. Ezraita. Oh, okay. Margaret Kern. Margaret, if you'll uh state your name and county resident, you'll have three minutes. Good evening. My name is Margot Kern. I'm a mother of two students in Knox County Schools. I'm speaking today to advocate for a stricter smartphone policy for KCS. Specifically, I'd like to urge the board to adopt an away for the day smartphone strategy. Smartphones at school prevent our kids from being able to focus, disrupt healthy socialization, expose them to illicit content, and create combative relationships between students and teachers. The current KCS policy for middle school asks that phones be turned off during the day. For high school, phones need only be in silent mode and can be used during lunch and in between classes. Neither group is required to stow phones out of sight. To

144be frank, the current policy is difficult to enforce and fails to counter the many problems that smartphones create. When a phone is in front of a student, the addictive pull is constant. On average, kids receive over 200 notifications per day. As you would imagine, this means students commonly check phones in their laps, behind folders, and in the bathroom. This behavior tears kids away from their schoolwork, harming their ability to learn. Students cannot be expected to learn calculus when they are keeping up with the group chat or wondering who reacted to their last snap. In fact, the closer a student is to his phone, the more his cognitive abilities are impaired. Also concerning is the effect smartphones have on our kids' well-being. Our current policy allows high school students to use phones outside of class time.

145This disrupts opportunities for healthy socialization and leaves kids feeling isolated. What could be lonelier than sitting with your friends at lunch and competing with their phones for attention? And if you are shy, why step out of your comfort zone, enter the fray, when you can sit safely entertained by your phone nearby. Phones outside of class also open the door to a slew of inappropriate content. In fact, a recent poll found that nearly a quarter of kids were exposed to pornographic material at school. When it comes to our teachers, they are exhausted from keep competing with phones and from playing phone police. Many give up rather than fight with students who are addicted to their devices. KCS needs a policy that supports teachers, that helps them easily identify infractions and provides them with straightforward consequences. A

146policy that sets an expectation for zero phone use at school will ultimately lessen teachers burdens. When we give kids seven hours a day free of their phones, we teach them what it feels like to truly focus, to think deeply without interruption. We show them that they can go without constant entertainment or distraction to soften the rough but necessary edges of adolescence. We give them a muchneeded break from toxic social media platforms that profit off their precious attention. We provide them with the space to interact with one another to develop the soft skills that are needed for future success in work and life. There is so much to be learned at school when we don't allow smartphones to rob our kids of the lessons. Please act to strengthen KCS smartphone policies. Thank you. Thank you. Aaron

147Reed. Aaron, if you state your name and county resident, you'll have three minutes. Aaron Reid, Knox County. Good evening. My name is Dr. Aaron Reed and I'm a parent of a student in Knox County Schools as well as a psychologist specializing in treatment of child anxiety. As a parent, psychologist, and a former teacher, I urge KCS to implement an away for the day policy for smartphones. Students today are experiencing unprecedented levels of mental health concerns which negatively impact school outcomes such as attendance, grades, motivation, and overall engagement. In his book, The Anxious Generation, Jonathan Hate explains how anxiety levels have surged since the rise of smartphones. He describes phones as experience blockers, allowing students to avoid uncomfortable situations, which only serves to fuel their anxiety. For example, when parents text students throughout the day who

148are anxious or pick them up in response to those messages, they inadvertedly reinforce avoidance behaviors, making the anxiety worse over time. Schools should be places where students develop essential life skills. Communicating assertively, seeking assistance from authority figures, and resolving peer conflicts face-toface. A phone-f free school day would encourage students to navigate these challenges, ultimately reducing anxiety levels by teaching students that they can handle tough situations. Even if you agree with the arguments um that Margot and myself have made about the detrimental effects of smartphones in classrooms, you might have concerns about how to implement smartphone policies or whether the effort will result in meaningful outcomes. And should we move forward with this type of policy, we would be in good company. Louisiana, South Carolina, and Arkansas have all adopted away for the day policies as

149well as individual districts like Hamlin and Warren County schools here in Tennessee. Um, Camplin Hamlin County Schools reported rapid improvements in student engagement and concentration along with overwhelming parent support of their phone policy. In a pilot program in Arkansas, schools saw increased attendance, improved student engagement, and reductions in disciplinary issues, drug offenses, and in bullying cases. In Texas, Richardson ISD cited fewer class disruptions, more focused learning environments, and reduced teacher stress, all as positive outcomes. These are just a few examples from the growing number of districts and states implementing stricter smartphone policies. If you told a teacher or administrator that you had a tool that could rapidly improve student engagement, attendance, and well-being, you would have their attention. And a way for the day smartphone polic smartphone policy is just this tool. KCS has the

150opportunity to help students reach their potential by removing these experience blocking smartphones from the learning environment. I urge you to take action for the well-being of our students. Thank you. Thank you, Kaylee McVetty. Kayleie, if you'll state your name and county resident, you'll have three minutes. Good evening. My name is Dr. Dr. Kaylee McVidy and I am a mother of three kids in Knox County schools. Smartphones provide no educational value yet come with a host of negative consequences. Despite this, there may be some push back from parents in response to stricter smartphone policies. And I'd like to take a minute to discuss some of those. Some parents want their kids to have funds at school so that they can plan transportation and after school activities. Of course, all parents would like that, me included. But

151we have to remember that doing so comes at a cost. We have to weigh the small inconvenience of not being able to reach our kids during school hours with the academic and social havoc phones wreak. And though it is now common for parents to text their kids while at school, we did spend half a century getting students to extracurriculars without orchestrating logistics in the middle of the school day. To be clear, we are not asking for any restrictions directly before or after school. We're simply asking that school time itself be protected time for learning. I hear some parents say that they need to provide their kids with emotional support during the day. Yes, kids do need to be supported by their parents, but not 24 hours a day. Kids need opportunities to solve problems on

152their own, sit through uncomfortable feelings, and learn how to reach out to trusted adults when they need help. While we may believe constant texting helps to bolster our kids, in many instances, it's it infeeless them. A few parents may believe that the decision to bring a phone to school should be left up to the parents. But smartphones don't just neg negatively impact individuals. One kid's phone ringing during a lecture disrupts the entire class. When everyone is on their phone at lunch, what good is it that your kid doesn't have one? And when it comes to explicit content, you may have parental controls on your kid's phone, but the kid next to yours at lunch does not. It is true, we cannot protect our kids from everything that they will be exposed to on smartphones, but

153we should be able to protect them while they're at school. When it comes to parental authority, it is clear that smart smartphones at school undermine it. Some will say, "Shouldn't we be teaching our kids to use smartphones properly, slowly adding privileges as they advance in school? After all, they will need to resist their phones in college." But there are major flaws in this thinking. The first is that smartphones are addictive. They have been designed using slot machine science to keep kids constantly coming back. Because of this, teenagers are not developmentally capable of voluntarily resisting them for seven hours a day. Asking them to do so is setting them up for failure. What's more, a kid who has grown up without being interrupted by phones all day will know intuitively what it feels like to focus

154on one idea at a time, to sink deeply into a math problem, or even read a full book. that kid is more likely to protect his attention in college than someone who has never learned its value. Finally, should a parent want to, there is plenty of time to teach kids how to use phones outside of school. It is not the job of our teachers to help our kids resist smartphones. It is the job of the parents. Lastly, there is the issue of emergencies. It is Sorry, I'm sorry. Three minutes is up. I apologize, but thank you very much. Jackie Goins. Jackie, if you'll state your name and county resident, she'll also have three minutes. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to speak to you tonight. My name is Jackie Goens. I have two children

155in Knox County Schools. My son's name is Josiah. He is 5 years old and has Down syndrome. He has been waiting 11 months to be evaluated for music therapy to assist with his speech goals as a related service on his IEP. After numerous emails to people throughout the um district, I have not been able to even get a date as to when that will occur. However, I'm not just here to tell you my story. I'm here to represent four other families who've been waiting from 15 months to three years. Three years for an evaluation to add music therapy to their individualized education plan. These are just the families I know about. How many more families are waiting across the district? It's typically 60 days to complete an evaluation once it's agreed to. This is Tennessee

156Department of Education enforced rule of thumb for what is reasonable. Knox County has contracted with a private mi music therapist who to provide these services who is running her own private practice. The publicly posted contract for the music therapist indicates that this service provider is contracted to do one SIMTAP evaluation per school year. There is no way that she could keep up with the demands for evals, not to mention providing the services to the students in KCS while maintaining her private practice. All of these families could request compensatory services for all the treatments that have potentially been missed due to the years of delayed evaluation. So, I'm here to petition the board of education in Knox County Schools to hire at least one full-time music therapist. Between the children we represent and the compensatory treatments

157that are potentially owed, a full-time music therapist would easily have a full case load. Thank you for your time. Thank you, Terry Hill. Terry, if you'll state your name and county resident, you'll have three minutes. Good evening, everyone. My name is Terry Hill. Um, before I uh begin, please, I would like to um ask for a suspension of the rules and um ask that you would please give me consideration of an additional three minutes as a former uh board chair on this board. That would require a motion from the board. I will make a motion for the board to consider it. It would take a vote, right? in a second with Miss Hill also being a commissioner and a member of our funding body. Um I will make that motion. All right, we have a

158motion in a second. Any comments on that? I don't know that the topic is educationally related or any more valuable than the smartphone policy. So I'll I'll probably vote no on it just because it's been a long night. I don't we need another three minutes. But let's take a roll call vote. Dr. Butler, yes. Miss Templeton, Miss Fontino Ridley, Miss Bike, Miss Morgan, Mr. Triplet, Mr. Wright, Miss Christie, Miss Henderson, yes. That's eight yes votes and one no vote. Thank you very much. I am Terry Hill. Um um I will tell you even though the cat's out of the bag and I am a former uh member of your board and a former chair and someone else has also mentioned that I am a elected representative. I will tell you that I'm speaking as a

159personal citizen tonight. So to begin I am addressing your school board policy B220 your code of ethics. Just so you know that I am not picking on you. I am telling you that your Knox County Commission suffers from this same situation. And that is the fact that our existing board policy for ethics essentially parrots TCO C code annotated. This makes a policy extremely weak. I would guess that most all of you at some point in times in your professional careers have had a uh job where there was a code of ethics involved. I dare say that that code of ethics probably went well beyond any legal ramifications. to think that elected officials in our county do not have something at least comparable um quite honestly is is kind of a bat on all of us

160and this is why I hope you'll consider seriously sitting down and looking at this. Um I will also say that um I have talked to our law department about this and um I'm sure uh probably Mr. Dupler would concur that anytime you start talking about things that are not uh defined by law like um um appearance of um things that are totally um inappropriate when you start talking about things that in fact do not support the board in general that they get very nervous about this. Um and um I understand that because that's what attorneys do. Um but our whole law in fact is full of contradictions. That's what keeps attorneys in business. However, having even said that you each of you need to remember that you are the board of education. It is your

161authority to be able to set policy including the code of ethics that you decide to enact. and even your old law director will tell you, I just will advise you on legality in form, but you're free to do whatever you want. Thank you, Mr. Dubler, for that nod. So, in fact, this is what I'm asking you. Now, I'm not going to stand here and insult you all with any definitions of ethics. You all can pull those up clearly and read them yourself. Um, however, I will refer to one thing that is in your own National School Board's training and TSBA training when it refers to behaviors and appearances when you become a Knox County School Board member. Um, teamwork is key. Whenever your vote is with a minority on a particular issue, support your board

162and share responsibility for that decision. Now, as an elected official for over 10 years, I have more than one time been on what would be considered the wrong side of a vote. I know what it is when you carry a personal belief about something, professional belief about something and the board does not support you or the commission does not support you in that. Regardless, it still is your responsibility to remember that you are elected to this board not just for your own views but for collectively for the views of your constituents. Now I would even go beyond that. You all know that to be an elected official is a privilege. Each one of you were assigned by your constituency the responsibility to represent that constituency. I will even go further to say that when your

163elected body decides to choose you as their board chair or their county commissioner to represent them that your duty and responsibilities are even larger. You're no longer going around saying I believe, I will defend, I will support. Especially if you are an addressing another elected body that is in the process of voting on the very situation that your entire board that you represent did not support. This, my friends, is not acceptable behavior. I do hope that you will look at this seriously, that you will consider this issue seriously. I thank you very much for your personal uh your allowance of my personal privilege in this. I've done your homework. If you need some additions to consider in your board policy, please feel free to contact me. And one more thing, I represent the same constituency

164that you do, Miss Henderson. You have made the statement both both publicly and privately that because you were elected overwhelmingly, what you say, thank you, represents your constituency. And I will tell you in fact it does not. Thank you. Candace Banister. Candace if you'll state your name and county of residence. You'll have three minutes. Thank you. Candace Bannister, Knots County resident. Recently a discussion with a friend reminded me that Will took honors algebra 1 and honors biology in 8th grade. In nth grade he took honors chemistry and honors geometry. unbeknownst to us, the BC level of geometry, which was the more difficult level, or as Will said, the one that all the ultra smart middle schoolers walk over to the high school to take. My husband has his uh was his high school valadictorian, top

165physics student in Auburn University and received his PhD in plasma physics from Princeton University. Mark worked with both of our sons on math and science during their years in high school and felt Willley really had a good understanding of the scientific concepts. They sat in the kitchen every kitchen table every night working on the homework for honors geometry as it is a very challenging class. It wasn't until we were working on Will's schedule for 10th grade that we found out that he had been in this BC level. Will was a good student. He was he also enjoyed running cross country and track. He liked spending time with friends, was in scouts and was interested in fashion and so sewing. He wanted to get a part-time job for summer. So we requested that we'll take college

166prep algebra 2 in 10th grade. His school required a conference in order to hear our request, but insisted that Will enroll in honors algebra 2 and honors anatomy. When Will died by suicide in April of his sophomore year, he had already completed all of his math and science credits for graduation at the honors level. His GPA at the time of his death was 3.74. Instead of being valued as an honor student and student athlete, his executive administrator in his first semester at that school saw Will as a problem before he even knew him. This admin's only tool was a hammer, so Will became his nail. And he hammered and hammered and hammered our son. This admin called me at school one day to tell me Will had fallen asleep in class and was in his

167office. I arrived in his office and told him that Will had worked on a school night the previous night for the very first time and gotten home about 10:00. I'd picked him up. He came in, ate some dinner, fell asleep on the couch. When I went to walk the dog, I told him Will took medicine for anxiety, which sometimes made him sleepy and gave him the names and dosages of that medicine. The executive admin told him he'd asked Will if he'd taken any medicine and that Will's first response was yes and then no and said he wasn't sure. I explained that since Will had fallen asleep, I had put the medicine in his mouth with a little water rather than waking him up. If this admin felt there was more going on, why didn't he

168say so? If he felt something was off, why didn't he make a referral to the school counselor when looking at the whole student? if things didn't add up for me or I had concerns I couldn't explain I always reached out to our counselor the behaviorist the psychologist admin pack teacher anyone teacher from last year to build a team around my student if he thought there was a problem why didn't he build a team for my son instead of hammering away at him over and over as a teacher my first thought is if a child falls asleep in my class I wake them up not call their parent if they seem tired I might even let them rest a little bit and then wake them as a parent I have to wonder has no student ever

169fallen asleep at that school before it doesn't happen every day but it isn't exactly uncommon. Why was this such a big deal to the admin? And more importantly, why did he see Will as his nail? Why did he continue to hammer our child? Thank you. Thank you, Michelle Mi. She's outside. Michelle, if you'll state your name and county of residence, you'll have three minutes. Thank you. Michelle Mihan, Knox County resident. Good evening. I'm here tonight to share some updates regarding special education from a parents perspective. In context of the need for our district to hire at least one full-time music therapist, for reference, Williamson County employs two. By unnecessarily delaying so many related service evaluations that are supposed to occur within 60 days of a student's IEP team agreeing to the valuation, KCS makes itself

170vulnerable to legal action by individual parents or even a group or class. It is as if KCS thinks this problem will simply disappear. Much like another Tennessee school district that allowed a student with dyslexia to go from grade to grade for 11 years without ever learning how to read, the parents did all the right things. They spoke up in IEP meetings, filed administrative complaint, and did everything they could short of filing for due process until the end when they took that last step. And now judges have ruled that the district owes the student almost 900 hours in compensatory services and reimbursement to the parents for attorney fees. Building on these concerns, here's some updated information regarding modified content that potentially rivals our district's past misunderstanding of inclusive preschool before KCS was forced to comply with

171preschool LRE under IDA, resulting the blended preschool program 10 years ago. Specifically, due to a state complaint against TDOE, an investigation is underway regarding how modifications to the general curriculum are documented in student IEPs. Our state uses a software program called Tennessee PS and the investigation is focused on the Tennessee IEP form not including the very basic information required by IDA law. This has potentially vast legal implications for how IEP teams across the state may have violated not only students substantive rights but also parents procedural protections as members of the IEP team. But here's where things get very specific to the future of our district where special education is concerned. The software developer is PCG, the same company who was the sole bidder for the special education audit RFP. This company will be making recommendations

172soon. I'm assuming next month. Is this perhaps a conflict of interest? Also remember the RFP required the bidding organization to have a clear knowledge of IDA and ADA law. Should an IP software company have the very basic required content embedded in the foundation of its IEP formatting? What does this mean for the upcoming recommendations? I'll be sharing the state complaint information in a follow-up email, and I'm always available to discuss special education issues as a parent trying very hard to help make Knox County Schools first compliant and then a model school district for students with disabilities. Thank you. Ellen Kundigig. Ellen, if you'll state your name and county resident, she'll have three minutes. Ellen Kundig. I'm a Knox County resident and a mom to four kids in the Knox County school system. I echo and

173adopt the statements made regarding the away for the day policy uh for Knox County students. So, what does a successful away for the day policy for smartphones look like? It's simple. You'd love to hear it. All KCS students may possess personal communication devices on school property, but they must be turned off and stowed away in backpacks from the first bell to the final bell. This clear and simple policy eliminates confusion as to whether or not phones are being used by kids. the mere presence of a phone during the instructional day would be a violation. This also treats all students the same regardless of grade level. The current policy is based on the faulty assumption that students need more freedom to use their devices as they get older. However, we know that developmentally pre-teens and teens

174are actually more susceptible to the addictive pull of smartphones and are even more vulnerable to a number of age specific harms caused by smartphones. Regarding enforcement, we have to give administrators and teachers clear guidance on how to handle violations. Schools around the country who have implemented away for the day policies have seen success with the following straightforward consequences. First violation, the phone is taken to the office and released to the student at the end of the day. Second violation, the phone is taken to the office and released to only a student's parent or legal guardian. Further infractions would result in disciplinary action, which should be clearly outlined in J191. There would need to be exceptions to the policy made for students with medical needs, keeping in mind that anxiety disorders do not benefit from access

175to smartphones, but as you've heard, are actually made worse by them. Many parents are anxious about uh having access to phones during emergencies. It's a sad reality that parents have to worry about school shootings. But while smartphones may ease our anxiety, they do not actually make students safer. Phone use during a crisis distracts kids from directions being given by staff and it also commonly contributes to false rumors that hamper first responders. We need to leave communication during emergencies to strain to trained staff. A successful roll out of any policy change would take into consideration the importance of getting parental buyin by publicly addressing parents concerns and providing a clear explanation for the rationale behind the stricter policy. It would also provide parents with an easy way to access information about current communication protocols during an

176emergency. My fellow KCS parents and I humbly encourage the school board to consider an away for the day policy. The tide is turning. Indeed, the Tennessee state legislature unanimously passed a bill today for a statewide cell phone ban in schools and school systems all over the country are liberating kids from the harmful burden of their devices. Now that we know better, we must do better. Thank you for your attention. Thank you, Madam Chair. That concludes public forum. Thank you, board members. Everybody have a happy, wonderful spring break. With that, we are adjourned.