001Please in the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right. Thank you. Um, okay. Okay. So, this is a this is a special work session specifically tonight to talk about our softball planning. I guess by bylaws I have to open up to public comment. Um so, you're more than welcome to address the board now or we're just going to talk amongst all of you and all of us uh probably as informally as possible. So, if you'd like to state something, you're more than welcome to. If you want to hang on and we'll just we'll just chat here as as we go through the meeting. any takers?
002Okay. All right. Well, let's get started. So, um this is this is a project we've been talking about for a while. Um I'm not really going to rehash too much of uh what's been done up to this point in time, but you know, now that we we've got a couple of other large projects closer to completion, I will say uh certainly will be done uh before the end of the calendar year. uh we want to go ahead and and proceed forward and talk about how we can uh get a new softball field built and then also try to retain some of our our funding uh so we can touch a couple of other projects that are pending sometime in 26 uh and beyond specifically probably the pool uh as well as the auditorium at the
003high school among other things. But today specifically, we're here to talk about softball and uh uh I think there's consensus and majority among the board and and Dr. Henshaw that we want to proceed forward and now we we just have to figure out exactly what's the best way for us to get some solid bids in the house that will um that'll be accurate. So we're know we're comparing apples to apples across different uh construction firms who could potentially build this for us. So that's probably a semidecent uh overview. Dr. Henshaw, do you want to introduce uh Fred, please? >> Yeah. So Fred Po from Context Design is here. I'll say he's here again. And uh he's helped us out on a couple of different things. And Fred um was doing some design planning work for
004us on softball last summer. And then we paused that late in the summer of 24, but we didn't lose sight of Fred because he's doing all the submittals and all the approvals on the football field turf install. And uh so as we talked about at our regular session, it seemed like it made sense as we're talking about what's next to bring him in. I talked to him this week. I didn't I didn't make you quantify this, but how many how many softball andor baseball fields do you think you've uh designed? >> So, the last time we were here together a year ago, we had we just gone over 250 fields, diamonds, and courts. We've eclipsed 300 this year. >> Okay. >> Um athletics is a big part of what we do. We have projects in
00514 states of all ilks. Um I think some of tonight might be about delivery method and we've done all of them. I can kind of give you some experiences that we're having. Um, and I think the local experiences are going to be more important than maybe what we're seeing regionally, but any questions you might have, we can we can tackle those. >> So, that's that's Fred. That's context design. And I don't know if you want any more by way of introduction. >> Uh, no. Other than that, I I I think it was important for us to try to get as many um many seats at the table as possible for Stacy and Paul to be here, uh for our coaches uh to be here, um our facilities director to be here, uh and some representatives
006from uh the softball community, the booster group, parent group, uh that's involved with the program right now. Just so yeah, I just think everybody needs to have a voice as we're if we're going to put a bow on this hopefully by the end of this evening in terms of what's the go forward plan to design this, what are the specs, what's really the most important and just make sure everybody's got a got a chance to have that voice be heard. So, >> all right. I think maybe if it makes sense to the board, I might flash through what Dr. Henshaw has printed. This is simply where we stopped with conversations last July. Um the goal at that time was really to study um so the land that you have out near the the current tennis
007facility, what was the most economical method >> to begin thinking about diamond sports in that location, right? >> This was not intended at that time to be a final solution. It was an exploration of possibilities. So, I wouldn't want to leave anyone in the room with it with the sense that it was galvanized. It it wasn't and it wasn't intended to do that. There are two images that I'll flash through. Um, we studied about six different configurations. The two that were the most preferable are the ones that I'll flash through again quickly and then we'll we'll zoom in on what we believed at the time to be the minimum project. My screen just went black. This one isn't. So, I guess I'll use this. Um, so the uh the the image that is here, I
008mentioned the the existing tennis facility. You've got an existing um restroom building and a very small parking lot. So the board last summer, the the big questions that you all were asking was when we're thinking about pedestrian circulation, ticketing and gate control, how can we get the most efficient use of this real estate? And really to do that as we see it is using kind of this hub to your benefit. The further you grow the extents of the campus, the further you move any feature, whether it's a salt bowl diamond or any anything similar, the more earth work, the more storm water conveyance, the more detention that you would need. So, we want to do that. And then you've got a wetland that is um is delineated um now today. So, we want to make
009sure if we can, we want to avoid that. So this particular solution was was looking at kind of a a d kind of a duplex if you will of softball thinking we might land the north and east oriented field your your preferred orientation um as a first field but to set the layout up to where you could mirror that if and when that opportunity arose. I I may I'm going to switch to page three for just a second. what that looks like. Then when you think about that iteration, we started to study that at a schematic level. This is the parking lot that's there today. So the board was adamant that we look at what the the actual parking need would be when you hosted an event that could have tennis and softball at the
010same time so you didn't displace folks. Um I did not count these before I left. We did count them the last time. That's about the parking expansion. So you need to go about two and a half times what you have now to make that work. Um, and that would be for for one diamond active and all of the tennis courts. Um, the goal there was to be able to use kind of one ticket and gate entrance. Again, use this building, have a very simple connection back, some concourse area to be able to tie those two facilities together. We believed last summer this would be your minimum project. You're trying to again be very costconcious and how you did that. And the field on the right is the the field >> north and east is for
011both baseball and softball is the is the preferred direction. Anybody who's ever played at a competition facility knows a clover leaf is very common. We do those um the sight lines. You're trying to keep the sun out of the batter's eye. So facing to the north and east is the least likely to get glare to the batter. Um we're not worried about the fielders. They have gloves. Um but the batters are standing in harm's way. The second image, um, I think the board was interested in, um, what the proximity could be if you ended up having baseball and softball, almost like a varsity plex as opposed to two soft balls. What could that look like? Does it fit? Was really the question that was on the table. Um, we demonstrate that it it can fit.
012We just need to make sure, you see the red line that we were talking about, there could be future connections, particular connections that go through that space. I'll flip back to that first image. My screen went black. Maybe I won't. There it goes. The first image can't open the file. It is open. You can't open it. So again, no matter which configuration, that ability that we want to think about that when we think about easements, utilities, just what would happen through that? Um, again, no one in this room said, "Hey, we know for a fact there would be four soccer fields in the future." It's just a land plan to say how much open space could you utilize if over the next 15, 20, 25 years this facility began to incrementally grow. Make sense? So
013again, um, job one was to let you know kind of where we landed, get any feedback you might have that I don't about preferred location, what the goals may be in and around that. We want to make sure that we hear that from you tonight. And then I am happy to field as many questions about delivery methods, what we're seeing with funding and financing, what we're seeing with costs of fields, both natural and synthetic. Um, we can talk about as many of those things as you would like. I I would say that I think we Skilman pulled some quick numbers together for us a year ago. Um, I think a natural field was again the lower cost of those options. I think there was an appetite for synthetic. To be honest with you, I don't
014know where that landed where the the intent of that was, but it would be good to make sure that we understand that as we would start into any given project location of the field. >> Yeah, I was curious about that. Um, is there any cost differential for the land prep of going to the west of the tennis versus going north? because I remember when we went through this process was it five years ago maybe um that was the land development was a a key stake in some of the placements that we had talked about at that time. >> Yeah. So the the north and east where the label for detention basin the totality of that acreage wants to move and migrate water to the north and east. So when we do develop anything in the
015south and west corner we will be migrating that water up. Now, I I've not done any we don't have a topographic survey to even start in earthwork. Um, but we there would be more cost to move it from here than there would be from a closer location to the actual basin. If it's synthetic turf, we would normally put the detention under the field. Um, real estate in your area and most that we're doing projects is too valuable to have open ponds land. It's a premium. So, we would typically put that in there. So that could be say to your question, it could be part of the solution if it's to the east or to excuse me to the west. >> If you if you put softball here, does that become limited on ever doing a
016baseball field? You can do the baseball there, not here, right? You can get one baseball and one softball in that kind of corner, whichever configuration that you would want to do. I think really the only downside that we in one of those six options, the only downside of this image is this is not facing north and east, >> right? >> When you flip it, you're bringing the the spectator about the same distance as you were doing that here. Again, it's it's just a game of math. It really is no more complicated than that. You do want to be careful when you think about um hosting any events. how far away the restrooms physically are can't be the make or break from getting an invitational. Um, again, no one has said to me in the room,
017this is our goal is to host a sectional or a regional of something. But again, you should be aware of that if the rest if you are going to use this existing restroom the further we move home plate if that's flipped. >> Yeah, we definitely have a goal of trying to be able to host further into the state tournament. Um, another question that we've had come up. So, we were able to get um Jeremy's staff and Rachel Nixon, uh, Sean, Brian, Paul, myself together and kind of brainstorm preparing for this meeting. Um, one of the questions that we were trying to delineate through was um, the ease of like buses to be able to come in with that space that we have for the parking lot, being mindful of that. softball teams have a lot
018of equipment. >> Um, it's pretty tight in there right now and so I don't even know would that accommodate bus traffic >> F tread with making the parking two and a half times bigger. >> Yeah. So >> to create another drive, >> this is the total parking needed for all of those diamonds. That's four times what you have here. I'm going to flip back to the diagram I had just a second ago. Okay, >> this one's the one that is two and a half times. It's really the eastern half of that bigger block that I just showed you. >> Um, you would have the opportunity to be able to pull bus or fire. And we need to plan for bus and fire >> would be able to loop back through there. >> And that's just
019enough parking for one field and and tennis, not two fields. >> That's correct. Yeah, that's correct. We talked about very loosely. We do stabilized parking. Basically trying to make sure that the lawn could be driven on. You don't want a mud bog, but we could do some of that as needed. We could all You're going to plan the parking lot from a detention strategy to to size the storm water makes the pipes. You're going to do that for the full parking lot so that you don't have to dig up a new pipe to grow that parking lot later. So, I want to make sure we we're mindful of that. for future growth, if there would ever be any five years, 10 years from now, 15 based on your first diagram that you had shown us.
020Would it be possible by eliminating a soccer field to put an additional baseball diamond out there in that footprint somewhere? >> Yeah, I think there's a lot of land to do that. Again, we >> But you'd have to eliminate a soccer field. Correct. >> Yeah. And again, I would say the the space we're showing a rectangle of a soccer field >> to give you a a view of the amount of area that is. >> Um you somebody might say we want five diamonds there and one soccer field for all I know, right? That that was not the goal >> because this one's showing three additional soccer fields >> currently. >> Yeah. >> This one is there today. >> Current game. >> Yeah. because the alternative discussion we had was co it was really around what's
021the most cost effective way to get a softball field and so we kind of flipped that and said what happens if we use a soccer parking because they don't have restrooms either is build a new restroom facility and expand or pave that parking so that was an option too but I think it was just more expensive so I think that's where we landed on >> adding more parking attendance adding it over there those were the two I think one one A and 1B >> to try to take advantage of infrastructure. >> That is exactly right. >> There's three restroom stalls in that. >> One, there's three. I >> three single. Okay. >> Three single restroom. Yeah, that was part of our conversation was um questions about restrooms and then also changing facilities um >> for
022the girls and then you know on down the line positioning that so that if you did add baseball you would have to be mindful of having >> some kind of an out building >> cleat house whatever you want to call it field not field house that's not the right word but >> house >> something out there because currently We can test this. I think our kids just changing their cars if they don't do it here at the school at our current location. >> That is correct. And they can go into the YMCA, but it's part of this direction change. I mean, >> it's not there's no convenience to >> I think if we were going to try to be able to host something in the future, we would absolutely have to have more restrooms. >>
023Absolutely. Rest by adding a softball field with our current setup of restrooms. Those would not be adequate. No way. >> How many restrooms do you typically see for a softball or a tennis facility? >> So, I feel like every tennis facility we go to, they don't have restrooms, period. Like we're always walking into the building. >> Yeah. >> But they're close to a school usually. >> Is that what you're saying? >> Somewhat. In my experience is Ryan, when we expanded at my previous school, we had three for the male side and three for the female side, but that was just that service softball and baseball and it was a walk from baseball to get there, but it was through the entrance where you came in and bought your tickets. I think the restrooms at tennis
024if an individual changes they can lock the door and ch like I think they're big enough to make as a individual changing station right >> oh I think someone can change in there but I think on the same nights that you might have a tennis match along with a softball contest there' be there could be some lines trying to get in those bathrooms on concessions because I know for tennis is not utilize utilized more to feed the kids than it is a concession stand. >> I think that Karen concession stand is adequate for what we would need for a softball concession. >> I was I was curious if that could be converted to something else. That's is that oversized >> for a because it seems like it's not really used as I mean to use
025some as concession stand but so they've got tables and set up for the kids to eat food versus sell concessions out of. Could that be retrofitted to add a couple more bathrooms? I'd have to have somebody look at that. >> It's not It's a wonderful space for a concession stand for a tennis facility. >> Right. It's oversight. Yeah. >> Correct. >> On this print, there's not a scores tower. >> Press box. >> Yeah. The >> is it what would it do if you were to put something there and put bathrooms underneath of it like a lot of our faces a lot of facilities have with plumbing everything already being there. >> So a couple things you you can't possibly see this cuz I can barely see it. I'm standing here. There is a a manufacturer's
026press box. Think like your football stadium >> that's at top those bleachers. >> Top the bleachers. >> Yeah. it is there. It was the space is there to be able to do that. >> Um again at that time it was what's the most cost effective way to get to that. >> Um and at the moment that idea was that the restrooms could meet that minimum need. If not then the question is whether you're extending utilities or or not. >> We did not design the tennis facility. So I still don't know what the capacity of the lines that serve that the sanitarian water lines that serve the existing building if they are large enough to be expanded or if we bring any new service from from the road. >> What is what are the type of
027um dugouts that are accommodated for on this drawing? >> Yeah. So we we assume there would be masonry dugouts. >> Okay. >> Um kind of a what we would typically do is like a two/3 height wall. What you're trying to do there is you want air flow through. it can get really hot when there isn't, but you also want them tall enough that when it is early in the season, which it will be cold, um that you're not getting kind of blasted. You try to hit that sweet spot there. Um we do have some schools that are going to to doing more like a chain link with a shade topper and then using more windcreen around is branded to the school. Um we see that too. Again, it's an economy question and what that long-term
028durability needs to be. And is there storage or any other like out building attached to the end of those um dugouts or >> for like all our equipment, the lawn equipment and >> see if I can zoom without >> pieces, etc. >> That I was able to do it. Can you see the closet? Okay, it's here. So, we've added one closet to be able to meet. It's just on one side of the field. typically one closet, whether you open that closet into the dugout or out to the field, it really is of no consequence. Design them every which way you can imagine, but typically with a field that that will do it. Now, for synthetic field, if you're trying to house mowing equipment and, you know, fertilizing equipment, all of that stuff for a natural
029field, that can get a little bit more robust. >> Um, again, I've not >> not really heard what that goal is. >> What do you see for like a hybrid field? So we see very few hybrid fields today. Um most schools are telling us that they can't they can't really focus on having excellence in maintaining natural and excellence in maintaining synthetic. They can commit to one or the other but we mix both and they end up end up coming back and saying you know what we're going to we're going to have turfing this whole field. Um and and sometimes and you know this do sometimes you have skill and then somebody disappears whether that's a parent or a local group or somebody on your staff. >> So we just want to be mindful of what
030that means. And in some schools that do natural will will contract it out to they'll have professionals locally that may may want to do that. So I do get this question a lot because synthetic comes up frequently. We're not pro synthetic or pro. design both AC all across again the the the Southeast and Midwest. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer there. I think it's what you what your tolerance around maintenance is and what your willingness to reschedule games. Um again, I'll say this, if you have native soils, you're probably going to look at, you know, a lot of under drains to try to try to mitigate rain out, but you'll not stop that. If you go to like a sand cap system, um you you won't be able to afford a sand
031profile, like more of a golf course design, but a sand cap system will get you to a point where you'll have very few rain outs. Um but that again can be a high performance natural system. And then synthetic that really I mean you're talking about 16 inches an hour and you can per water through a synthetic system. So there's no rain that's going to I hope there's no rain that'll overcome you know that that >> So back to the dugouts. Uh, we're talking about changing stations and changing areas without utilizing the bathrooms that are currently there at the tennis courts. Could we add that to that dugout by just expanding it? We talked briefly at our meeting last week. Uh, the initial sting on the dugout is starting the dugout, but as far as going
032another 6, eight foot cost effectively, it's not to me it doesn't I don't think it's going to make that big of a difference. We have seen a lot of folks study basically doubling the size of the dugout to make it deeper. Um whether again you access that from outside or inside the dugout is not really of consequence to us. Um it really I would say it's more of a cosmetic question. Some of our clients um not to name names but Brownsburg schools if there is architecture of any kind built whether it's an outhouse or a school building they all have to look exactly the same. the material choices, the detailing, there can be no variance in that. Um, there are other schools that less is more. Um, Indian Creek was one where they said, you
033know, we need a what they call a halftime building. This was for football, but it could be for any sport. They needed a changing room. They didn't need a locker room. They didn't need lockers. They didn't need a bunch of restrooms. They just needed a room that was basically the size of a two-car garage that had benches around the outside and it was just for the team to drop their bags, change their clothes, and leave. And it didn't need to be it didn't need to be masonry, but it needed to be simple. Um, I think any range of those things is all, you know, common. Fred to maybe walk back a step is obviously you we decided like hey what what's the two cost effective options with infrastructure we have ask Gilman to put together
034an estimate honestly I think the board as a whole was sticker shocked to what that was so we do have kind of an estimate based upon your so I think those are good questions what is included I think the honest answer is we don't know right so I think the goal of this meeting is to identify the scope that is wanted or needed and then kind of maybe talk through the process to get there because I think there's some question like are we moving too fast? I think we don't know, right, is we have a number in mind we want to spend. And I think since you've been here, we got a couple other estimates. One was in the $2.5 million range to kind of get synthetic turf, but it was conceptual, right? Like what
035dugout did they quote? And then I think Tom and Winchester, they looked at one and all of a sudden that number is 1.7. And so that's obviously great, but then it doesn't include the pluck parking. What kind of dugouts is it? So I think that's what we're trying to gather now is like how do we identify the scope that then can get designed in the process because I think there's a lot of these detailed conversations come under the design right >> to me if we're doing a design build contract or another method there is there a time period to discuss those things that align with budget because like we can all say we want but if if all of a sudden that dugout's another 200 grand it gets cut out. So like what is the
036process normally to identify the budget to the scope? Yeah, I'm gonna maybe give you a full answer and you stop me if you if you if it goes too far. So, there are really kind of three flavors that we see happening. Um, there is a traditional design bid build which essentially full permit drawings are being developed. We get scope from the people in a room like this. We develop those drawings to the level of quality that you're looking for. There could be alternates fit into that. So, maybe I'm making this up from the dugout comments. Maybe the base bit is a chain link shade topper and it's got windscreen around it and an alternate bid is for a masonry dugout that meets whatever other needs that you have. So you have kind of tools in
037the tool locks to buy as many things on a shopping list when you open bids as you can. That's the traditional method. That tends to be the least expensive. You have the most competition when you do that. So that tends to drive the price down. Um it doesn't mean that it's right or wrong, but that that is what it is. the the downside to design bid build, the traditional method, is that the low bid wins. I think everybody's aware that the low bid is not always the best bid. Um, so sometimes you'll get a contractor that may be average and it's it's more effort on our end to kind of tooth and nash out differences, right? You miss this, you owe me this quality. I spent most of my day in Western Boon on the
038tennis court today fighting with a contractor about what level of quality we expected and they paid for it and what they they wanted. So, it's just the natural course of of construction. So, that's kind of one method. Um, we see some schools leaning into cooperative purchasing agreements or what you might consider traditional design build, what what in the private sector we see as design build where you go out and get some quotes from folks. Um, you make some choices about what those are. Um, co-ops are really the only cooperative virt um tool in the toolbox to use. Um we have about 50% of our clients, school clients will embrace cooperative purchasing agreements. About 50% their legal councils will tell them not to play ball. It really is who is your lawyer and what is their
039interpretation. What we have seen recently is state board of accounts is getting really frustrated by by circumventing the rules. And here's here's as simple as the rule is. Um the engineering community has a really powerful lobby. They spend a lot of time and money on making sure that they protect um the civil engineering trade. So there's a public works statute part of the the bid statute that says that if it's earth work, it's um drainage, it's anything you would do with equipment that can't be quantified in a catalog, right? Think of any of it, the the gravel, the stone, the bedding and pipes, all of that stuff. that is considered public works. That's not that's not eligible for a cooperative purchasing agreement. But with synthetic turf, the carpet is with the the furniture in this
040room with the fire truck that gets purchased down the street by the the town. All of those are catalog prices that can be competitively bid. So, we just did the Homestead football stadium renovations. Those will be done in a week or so. What their legal counsel said is we're happy to use co-op with the turf and track, but everything that is earthwork, drainage, massax, all of that has to be publicly bid. So, we literally on bid day open two sets of documents. That's the way to thread the needle with state board of accounts to keep them happy and for you to get opportunities when you're buying products to get somebody that you're comfortable with. You might say, why does that matter? Well, when it's time to buy turf, the low bid is not always the
041best product, right? So, with a co-op, you don't have to pick the low number. You can pick the best value is the terminology in a statute. So, that best value is something that a group, whether it's the board or whether it's a group of stakeholders that you bring together and make that best value proposition. The last and and final and we see a little bit less of this today. Um so the the public statute the bid statute has um a design build this both standard design build and progressive design build if you've heard those terms. Um companies like MCOR performance services use these all the time. Um so that creates you literally create a technical review committee that's both professional people in your community as well as members of the board. You go through an
042advertisement process, usually a twoin interview process. You kind of hash out the scope and the budget that you want to see and then you have them respond to that and what they do is they tell you how much they can give you for that budget and then so it's a very prescriptive process. Um they do they are allowed to bake fees into that. So it's not necessarily the least expensive way to do it. Um a lot of schools will do this. the larger the school is, the bigger, the more complex the project is, the more value that can add. Um, I'll just use MCOR as an example to, you know, EMCOR may have a ton of mechanical, electrical, plumbing expertise that is unique to them. They may have a control system that you really like
043that you've seen at school X. They can bring that in a way that maybe their competitors can't. It gives you an opportunity to again select best value. um that DBIA is design build institute of America is the it's the rules and the regs that you're following doing that with statute it's the most timeintensive process takes the most time to get to the end result there but it is does give you quite a bit of control over the >> do they have to do is a public bid process the selection of the design build contractor or do they have to then do public bid for their subcontractors >> in the first method >> in the progressive design build >> so progress you'll still have the same essential documentation. I'm not sure if this is what you're
044asking. Um, we get this question a lot. They'll say, "Well, do you do less drawings in one?" >> Not the drawing more of the bid process. So, like the bot structure, right, is almost circumvents the public bid process. >> Yeah. >> In design build. So, I'm looking at one that Eastern did. They essentially selected Hagerman, but they took together the process to to put out the scope of services, the design, build firms. So for our example, Patrick Davis, Skilman, um, Meer Num and um, Kulie Contractors has given us information. >> Yeah. >> Can they all then respond to that? Is that the public process? And then they can they can bid to, you know, like a regular private subcontractor or they have to actually have a public bid on the last side. So for example,
045like Kulie can do their own excavating. >> Yeah. Can they do that piece self-perform under their contract? >> So when you follow a DBIA, it's open book. So essentially you you'll get to see the the board would get to see all of the excavator bid. So okay and and you can then work with let's say Mor was managing that that bid. You could pick a local excavator that was maybe a little bit more expensive than the low number. Then what that design builder would come back and say is okay that premium was an extra $50,000 to choose cooling just because that thing came up. >> You can as a group say we're willing to put in an extra $50,000 to make sure there's local involvement. Does that make sense? >> Yeah. >> Um we did
046the Eastern Howard project with Herman. That was our our design. I'm very familiar with kind of how that interview process and the the design worked out. Um this is not what you asked but Greg asked this of me just yesterday. Is there a different set of documents that are prepared? And the answer to that is um when you call um Astro Turf or Moz Group or Sprint Turf or Field Turf, they then just call us and we give them a number to prepare the documents. So um it's this really the same as if it's a design bid build. It's the same set of documents to your criteria. It's then they're putting a number to. It's really it's really six of this and half a dozen the other. It's really just the method that you're getting
047to. Um on the the BO process, we do a ton of that in the private sector when cities and towns are are collaborating. The larger a project gets, the more and and the more interesting the finance is, the more vote matters. Um so build operate transfer was meant when you have um limits to how you can fund. So as an example, so it it came to be with the Hooser Dome project. I remember what your dough was. >> Um, so in the the early 80s, the city couldn't afford didn't have the tax coffers to just pay for a stadium. So they had to figure out how to use pledged funds to do that. So they basically came forward and said, "We're going to do an insep tax. We're going to put out parking meters. We're
048going to create four or five different tools in a toolbox to be able to create money over a period of time." So they had, you know, smart lawyers write a statute that said you can use pledge funds as if it exists. Now you won't use property taxes, right? So you can't just create new financial gimmicks. Um, but the the state gave the ability to do that for the Hooser Dome and now it's been used for projects the size of this room, not just the size of a of a stadium. And it's it was meant to do that. So, if I if I as a school board can put up parking meters or create new revenue streams, I can capture those in a way that I couldn't before. Um, if you have if you don't have
049those tools in the tool box, the BOT probably isn't a perfect fit for some clients. Um, but again, that's again half a dozen of the six. That's been our experience >> and and a separate entity has to technically own the facility and the BOT model, right? at least for I think the statute says for at least 30 days but >> yeah I mean >> an authority or a separate corporation or something >> they do have to build it they have to operate it and they have to transfer it but the transfer can be nearly immediate um we worked on the criminal justice system or center downtown in Indianapolis and it was at the 31st day that they transferred it over it was really more the city needing the ability to use pledge funds um to
050do that and there are all guys we submitted it via park today to do a parking structure that's exactly that. It's BOT. It'll be transferred to them as soon as it's soon as it's built. >> So, under the progressive design build, do you guys prepare the RFP and the solicitation? Who does that? Because that's where really gets kickstarted, right? Is that is step one? >> Yeah. So, you you wouldn't want us to do that to be a conflict because we're going to get called by every respondent to the design build proposal to say, can you do these documents because you're most familiar with not only what you want, but we're the most experienced athletic design firm. So, like Dan Rollins, um I don't know what Dan's company is called now. He was at Inner Design
051before he semi-retired. It'll come to me at some point. There are a couple people that are they're called criteria developers is the term. So, they will help you sit down and develop the criteria for an advertisement. They'll help you set what they think is an approximate budget to do that. And then there's an advertising period for folks to respond. Then there's an interview period for them to come and meet with you. Again, it's a little more time intensive. Progressive is shorter than the traditional. And the traditional TRC process would normally be at least two interviews, sometimes three, and they would be do they would bring design to you. So, they would have us doing the kinds of things that were on the screen, running iterations for you, and then you would make that selection. Progressive,
052it abbreviates it by saying, you don't need to bring design to us. We want you to bring qualified people to the table. We'll do one interview and we'll just condense that process down. Um, just being honest with you, when you see a school that chooses progressive design build, they already know who they want to use. >> Um, so normally you get a total of one respondent because the moment it was progressive, um, I Avon schools is a great example of this. They nearly exclusively use progressive design builds. No one other than performance services ever responds because performance services have done the last 13 projects for them. So there's no reason to waste your time competing for a design build if you know it's progressive because you you are of the assumption that there is somebody
053already kind of wired to get that. >> Is the key to that though to define the scope of what like the wish list. So, for example, the dugouts, it seems like you have to have a cost number in mind and the aligned scope, right? So, that stuff doesn't change like after effect because I think we have a good idea of here's what we can get for the money we want to spend. >> So, I think for you guys like all right, what are the musthaves and then there's with a softball field to me there's only a couple optional items, but like to me parking we can't cut out, lights we can't cut out, press box, you guys could decide, but at some point that's going to come to cost and then it's just turf. So
054I don't and then you got some dugout design items. There's obviously some design on placement of bleachers and different things, but from a cost perspective. I don't see the design process taking extremely long. Yeah. Unless you feel differently, but there's only a handful of options we can take. >> So um Dr. Henshaw asked me to make sure when I got here so I didn't get on the spot and you wouldn't expect me to have an answer. What is the turnaround time to get the documents prepared and permits ready? um your communities will be easier to get through permitting with planning and zoning locally. Um the county is a little pnicity on storm water, but I don't know of any county that isn't at this point. Um so once you've got a topo and utility survey,
055um we we had some pricing about for that a year ago. We didn't pull the trigger because we didn't know where you you chose not to pull a trigger because you didn't know where physically we would be building it. The price was to to do tobo for the entirety of the acreage. Um, once you get that survey, it's about about 90 days from the moment we start drawing to the moment you have a permit to build. And that won't matter whether you go down any selection method that we've talked about. That's that amount of time is still what it's going to take to draw it and get it permit. >> Fred, you you know a lot about us and what we've been doing and kind of where we are. What would your advice as an
056outside person be to us to to start the process to give our due diligence to make sure that we have everything that we need and maybe some wants um to then get to a place that we can get this project going in a reasonable amount of time and not rushing it. So, I would if you know you're going to build on that site, I would get a topo and utility survey started immediately because it's going to take them a couple weeks to mobilize and a couple weeks to do the work. It's about a month to get a topo survey typically back. Um, there's no reason not to do that. The hardest part, Ryan mentioned this kind of for a different reason a second ago, the wants and needs is the hardest part >> because everybody
057in the room will want all of it. It's deciding what you must have versus what is nice to have. So the more clarity we have on that upfront, the faster we can get to the right set of documents. With permitting to storm water, as an example, there is no such thing as a storm water alternate. So you have to decide how much parking you're building or how much parking you're planning for because I can't take three different designs for storm water to them and say permit all three. They're going to say no, you pick one and that's what you get to build. Mhm. >> Now, when it's an enhancement to a dugout, that's not a big deal, right? They're not concerned about that. >> But trying to get that list drilled down is the the
058most important part. And then if you, let's say you had 10 things on the total list, and these five are musthaves. >> Normally, you're going to want us to draw the sixth and the seventh as an alternate >> so that if the numbers come in aggressively, you can go ahead and pick things off the shopping list. There's typically not a need to draw all 10 of them because you're not going to get there. >> Yeah. If you did hire a criteria developer down the again a DBIA process, standard or progressive, that's essentially what they're trying to do is to coach you through what your real limits are and what to be realistic about. Having done tons of design build through the DBI with performance services, a little bit of import mostly with performance services, normally
059that criteria developer is going to say, "Okay, you told us it's 2 million. I made that number up. You didn't tell me that number. We have 2 million to spend. Why don't you give them the whole list of 10 and dare them to promise you all of them? That's just a shell game. Like we know what they cost. You said that for different reasons a second ago. We know what the market bears. We open bids on these things all the time. So there's not really a you're not going to get something for nothing. So I think trying to be real as fast as possible. So you see the question is what does that line? >> So that process that we went through with our current projects where we had the planning process to say these
060are the things that we need. But if we could and then we had those those different options to then nail it down. I think when we had our meeting and talked through some of these things for dugouts for example, you know, definitely would prefer to have the masonary work, but what does it look like if we did something else because would that afford us something that we really also want but can't afford. So I would see value in that process which I think is what you explained as the first option. Is that correct? >> Yeah. The traditional design bid build is just getting the right set of documents done in the fastest amount of time and then inviting again whether you use the homestead method of breaking it into two pieces turf versus public works
061or whether you do it all as a public works process which you you could do as well. We just bid Columbus North that way two weeks ago where um it was turf conversion of baseball and softball existing fields at North. Um that was a public bid. The specs for turf were written to be open source so anyone could respond. We got three different biders. Um, you'll get your lowest possible price with a traditional design bid built because it's competitive. That's that's what the statute's built for is to create competition. Um, but again, you got to be aware that the low bid, it might be a little bit more work for some of us, a little more brain damage in the room for you and when there's >> I don't think I have much left by
062the time this is all over anyway. So, sacrifice too much. Well, I think the concern with the traditional, right, is that's the that's the typical process we've taken and we've got the conceptual estimates that we thought were extremely high. So, I think the alternative prices we've gotten have been groups that wouldn't be in the traditional bid that we have felt comfortable that the lower price is going to stick at some point. >> But did we sit with them though? Cuz I don't think you know how we sat down for our current project. We sat down and we went through. I don't know that we did that. I thought we kind of they just >> Yeah. They made assumptions of like what people were building like a market based pricing based. >> They assumed a masonry
063dugout, but they kind of cycled through that because I think I think they had alternates of a stone back stop is >> it's separated for that. So yeah, >> I think they took the data he's seeing every day and taking square footages and saying this is what we'd expect the bids to come in at >> on the traditional bid process. >> And that was close to $3 million. >> I don't there's no construction managers in the room. You don't need a construction manager for this project. You need them for vertical architecture. You need them for complex buildings with systems that might have to integrate. you don't need them for a field. Um, it's just adding it's adding fee and it's adding like escalation that they're putting on to bids that you may or may not
064actually see. It could just get scary. Those numbers get rounded two or three times. And I'm not suggesting that SC or any other CM is trying to to be on the take with you. They're trying to protect themselves from you getting a bid that's 3.4 million and they told you it was 2.4. So, better to round it up and have you be happy when you open the numbers, but we see a lot of projects that die because there's so many safety factors in the numbers. >> May I attempt to interpret what I think you're saying? >> Sure. Um, but if you have the specs right up front and you've determined what's on your list with priorities and potential alternates and you have some right person to do project administration at at whatever level, presuming that's
065context design, that design bid build's probably going to be the fastest and the most affordable. But you have to do the work of putting some of those safeguards in up front. >> That's true. You are the guard rails, right? Whom whomever you have, whether that's skill you have in the corporation, whether it's, you know, staff members, whether it's board members, whether it's somebody you hire to do that. Um, a construction manager is dayto-day eyes in the field. But that comes at a cost, right? Um, typically on a an especially a single athletic field, you typically wouldn't need or want someone out there day after day. Now, you're living you're living with a, you know, varsity football conversion process without day-to-day activity there without day-to-day. >> Well, we we do have an agreement with Skilman that
066they're providing some oversight. So, >> Gotcha. Yeah. >> There's a lot going on. There's a lot happening. So throughout your meeting, did you guys come up with your like So can you share some of that? >> Yeah. >> With us? >> Sure. >> Um I mean, block dugouts was the definite want. Um but we also talked about if we needed to explore um some other options definitely having some type of a barrier in front of the dugout um so that prevent not open facing but like half half wall facing you know that's pretty standard on what you guys probably do isn't it? >> Yeah. So for softball you'll you'll normally see kind of a full face just because the batter is so close to the the baseball a half height is more common >> whether
067they're mason or up front. um some storage. Uh our thought process was depending on the sides of the dugout to be able to have equipment in there. And at the time, you know, we were talking they were talking and expressing um interest in a hybrid field. But I mean, hearing what he said and his experience with fields, I feel like that would probably be a conversation we want to revisit to have more. If that's not a common thing, if that's a hard thing for a school to maintain, then we need to revisit that conversation and figure out. >> And I think that would just go to cost. I mean, as affordable for a synthetic and whatever was all the same. >> I mean, think about the maintenance on there's nearly >> none, right? >> You
068have to have equip special equipment for it. >> But as far as the upkeep and you said the brain >> Yeah. Grooming a synthetic field is you you only want to do it about twice a month. I we still have clients that'll go out like they're mowing and groom a field three times a week and it is absolute waste of time. >> What changes on your season if you have a turf infield and grass outfield versus all turf? Do you get more practice in more game? Like what? >> Um the outfield just the outfield we can practice on if there's like this year you can ask Riley. We practice with three inches of water at the fence. So, I don't think the outfield is like an issue. Um, you just don't want to be out
069there tear it up and sliding around, you know, putting debits and then we got a game the next day. >> Um, so I don't know that really anything would change. Um, our preference when we sat down to talk was a grass outfield compared or in a in a turf infield, but listening to what you said, it kind of uh one one way or another. Sounded like >> Yeah, we're Hel Silversburg is about to do a new softball facility and a new track. Um, they wanted to do a hybrid on both. They actually wanted to invert it. one of them to have a natural infield and synthetic outfield and then the inverse on the other. They thought it could be a competitive advantage depending on who they were bringing and for games they have now said
070they don't think they can >> maintain that. It's just a matter of it's it's a nice clever thing to do. But >> Ryan, there's there has been times where if we're playing a powerhouse fitting team, we'll let the grass grow a little taller. Gappers will slow down a little faster, right? But uh uh typically it's we're all playing on the same field. So >> So I feel like our situation's unique. Jason seen this more of you see a lot more baseball field complexes, but it's comes down to dollars where I think our estimate is like 100 to 150 grand to do all and then you don't have the headache or maintenance long term. Like these ones where they got five or six fields, it's the cost it comes down to. But they plan no matter
071what. I've seen some where it's like they'll get the games in, it's a muddy mess, but they're still tearing up the outfield. So, my concern is long-term maintenance and it's just one field versus if it's five, it's an easy decision. It's 500 grand. It's not worth it. I think you're seeing a lot more of those on complexes where it's grass outfield. >> Yeah. I mean, the baseball outfield's so much bigger, right? Um Brad, let me ask you this from a timing standpoint. Is it possible to get this built for next year? No. because a lot of questions around that. But I thought if you were going to try to get it built for next year that was even possible, you'd almost have to do turf. >> So I mentioned Columbus North who did that 11
072days ago. We just sat down in the pre-construction conference to see a schedule from the bidder and it was down to like days. Like if if we had more than four weather days, I can't promise you you're going to have that open in the spring. The decisions we're talking about I mean >> you believe it's out for spring. Yeah, there's no way there's no way you can get through to utilities design and permitting and be ready by that point. The weather is passed where turf is going to be be viable laying laying the t seaming it, gluing it. >> I mean, it can be a 26 thing, just not spring of 26 probably, right? Yeah, it's it's it's about four months to to build the field umish, but that's four months when it's 50 and
073rising so that you can get the you know the seaming tape to to adhere. So yeah, I don't want to be the bearer of that news, but the reality is is Columbus North waited till the last possible minute. That was really making sure we we got board approval in July >> so that they could begin in August and we do believe they will get there. Um, >> I will say and I yes, we would absolutely love to have it in April of next year, but the important part for me and my staff would be that it's in the works. If that's 2027, perfect. But if we know it's in the works and it's we know it's coming, right? cuz I know we've we've talked I've heard a lot of a lot of different things from
074a lot of different people and when that happens I just kind of try to turn my head and you know not get involved with it but at the same time um if it was happening it was the shovel was in the ground we'd be thrilled when that when that opening day is that's not the important thing >> if you're trying to contain cost I'm going to actually tie the two comments together um we're doing two Westfield rugby be fields right now. They thought they were going to build last fall. They got a little behind schedule, said, "Let's focus on baseball and softball." They're two two softball diamonds turf and a new baseball. They got those done in the fall, but they had cut and rough graded the rugby fields. They left them all winter and
075they turned to Like, >> they stabilized it twice. It still got problems. It's still not turfed now. And now there's a battle of contractual will about who owes who what for something that was supposed to be done in the fall left open all winter. And now we have a bigger problem than if we would have just waited. >> We should have just waited until April of this year got over the summer. >> That's what we should have done, but >> it just lost a players standpoint. Do they want Astro Turf from a coaching standpoint? Do they want extra turf or is it back to we just want what we can maintain? >> I would say from a coaching standpoint and a maintenance standpoint, >> the easiest way that we could I mean if it was
076all turf, it would be very we wouldn't be mowing every day eating and chalking lines and and cough scumbling that also with getting filled dirt, adding clay blocks for our mound to build it back up and chalk and all these things. Um, as for player standpoint, Riley, you might collaborate on this com this question. >> Um, I think we all would like to have turf. It's not necessarily a need, but it would be nice to have turf so we can get more games in throughout the season, >> and it's just better to play on. >> But I think from my end, >> Vicki, it's we have more rain outs in baseball and football than any other sport. Yeah. >> We never cancel a football game for >> rain. And so from that standpoint in looking
077at teams we play a lot of schools that are doing new facilities and maybe you can expand on this Fred. Um I mean in my discussion with other athletic directors around the state a lot of schools if they're doing a brand new facility are looking at turf more than they are the grass. >> I can go either way. I don't it doesn't really matter. I just know that the amount of rain outs that we have had in the last 10 years being here >> from everybody that I've ever talked to that do have that does have a turf field, there's never a rain out unless it's lightning obviously. And so >> I do think it's important too though because we talked about understanding the difference in the cost because if there are things >> that
078by having the natural field would free up to be able to enhance the complex to make us be in a situation to be able to maybe host a semi-state >> then that's a trade-off I think we all want to weigh >> because some of those opportunities mean just as much. I guess that's what I need more clarification on is would you rather have astroturf and then give up the bells and whistles on other items. You know, maybe it was just a chain link dugout for a few years and like which one would you rather? Would you rather have the fancy dugouts and then a a natural we have so many rain outs due to the fact that I don't know how good the JA fields were when they were put in. So based on changes
079in technology, changes in field development over the years, I'm sure that a natural grass field with the right drainage system, you can get less rain outs. I think and to your question, I think that would all be driven by cost. I mean, if it would be synthetic and we lose an expanded dugout or we had to do chain link, I think that would have to be a discussion that we would want to have with this particular group. I think too to add to that the synthetic or terra strip or however you want to put it that's I think it would eventually pay for itself you might correct me if I'm wrong but uh just with the amount of like I said the supplies that we put on the field the chalk the time all those
080things added uh if you did a chain link fence you could or dugouts you could always go back and >> put a block >> but if you do a block dugout it's going to be a lot tougher and more expensive, I think, to go back and okay, now we're going to do a turf, right? So, again, I think it's one of those things that you just kind of weigh your options, but I also think uh turf in the long run would probably pay for itself. >> I I feel, you know, talking through it, I think, and I get there's different wants and needs, but I feel like for the school system, the most important thing is to be able to play the games. And at the end of the day, we're only going to end
081up with one field anytime soon, right? And whether that's a varsity team, potentially a JV team, middle school teams, like I feel like that's probably the most important thing. And I I think hearing from the players and stuff, I mean, we want it all, but if if you had to choose turf or some extended dugouts and bells and whistles, what would you guys say? I think I >> and hopefully it could be all I think I would choose the turf because all the other periphery items you can always make down the road. I I guess it's like what's you know what's the use of having these other things if you can't play the game right and you deal with so many rains you can use >> not even the game but trying to get practice
082right you you can practice every day on this thing >> I agree and going you talk about putting a varsity a JV uh hopefully seventh eighth grade team continue um the wear and tear on the field I mean the field the amount of time and effort and material we put onto that field this year we practiced on it last night. It's trashed. >> Yeah, >> it's trashed. And uh if you had a synthetic field or curfield, we wouldn't be having that conversation. >> Yeah. >> So, >> Fred, do you what's the lifespan on a softball field compared to I mean, like we've learned about our football program, but >> I was >> Yeah, you you'll get an 8-year warranty with all turf vendors. Um, we got a 10-year warranty on the football field. Mainly because
083the the game is moving as it's played. So, you're not in one spot. If I'm digging in on the mound, I'm digging in at first base, it's in that same area. So, they won't go they won't extend those warranties. >> Um, you can bake and we would encourage you to allow us to in the specs to bake in some replacement panels in those highware areas. Definitely batting boxes and the the pitchers area. Um, but again, maintenance will be the real key. If you if you maintain the field well, you can get two or three extra years out of that. Um, call Columbus schools and ask for to replace their turf fields. Columbus North did zero maintenance, near zero maintenance on their football field. Um, at year seven, it looked like it was trash and it
084was. Columbus East had done regular maintenance. At year 11, it looked like it was seven years old. Um in that particular case they told them that they had to wait until yeast was ready to replace it and they they did. So um maintenance >> what does the maintenance look like on like is it a special machine to flip tur like >> so we would specify a groomer is what they're called and you can pull that with a gator a golf cart. It's not don't need a big piece of equipment to do that. It's doing two things. It's brushing to pick up any loose fibers, debris, rocks, bobby pins, anything that could be on that field. it'll it'll dump it into a tray that can be popped out and and disposed of. Then the back's just
085a typical groomer that's moving the ballast, the rubber and sand around. So, it's just grooming. Um whether it's a football field or a or a diamonds, you're going to want some extra ballast in those high wear areas. Um I don't play a lot of golf, but I know what a divot is. Um so, if I'm swinging a club, I need to have something to repair that divot. Same kind of thing. You'll want a five gallallon bucket um near that field to kind of again in a leaf rake, plastic rake and kind of work that into that area. Just it's not high-tech maintenance. It's low tech and it's limited. Um the the pay for itself. You didn't ask me to answer this question, but we were asked that all the time by boards. Um over about
086a 20-year amortization, they come close. it never fully pays for itself, but when you take into account the labor, the fuel, the chalk, all of the things that happen with a field, they come pretty close. And that advertised for the replacement term as well. So again, you're going to need to do that at your 8 to 10 to be able to pull that off. Um, so it's close, but not not a given. >> Is the equipment I'm sorry. >> No, go ahead. >> Is the equipment that we will have to maintain the football field able to be utilized on the softball diamond as well? It's a turf care 1440. It's exactly the same piece of equipment. >> Yeah. >> On back to the dugouts. Um, so is there a significant I'm just I'm trying to
087wrap my head around a dugout from a masonry standpoint is a basic block construction with no electricity, no utilities. I mean, it's got a roof on it obviously, but but it's pretty basic. Is there that much savings to be had going to a chain link option versus masonry? I mean, it >> I am always shocked at what masonry costs in the commercial sector. Um, this isn't what you asked, but um with with electricity, I don't know we've done a dugout yet that hasn't wanted >> those crazy phones. >> They want to be able to charge them. But so again, it's not plumbing, right? It's not it's not rocket science. >> Um I'd have to see what Victor and his team put together for the estimate for masonry. I can give you some benchmarks against what
088we're seeing. >> But the masonry can be a scary number sometimes. It doesn't mean it's right or wrong. We have some communities um in shared and this happened where they had a local mason that said, "Hey, I'll give you some inkind help." >> He talked to both of the respondents um and that number was driven down. I actually have um I have Sheridan's I don't know if I can get back on the screen. >> Um >> I think his p his pricing is two years old. Skilman says 120 grand from for two years ago. >> Yeah, I I would have said it's not uncommon to see 40 to 60 for a dugout. And I know there people in the room, they're going to laugh when I say that. I don't own a masonry company. I
089don't get anything out of that. >> Um but it it's something to be aware of. It's easy to design them both ways, too. I cannot tell you how clean and simple an alternate it is to do a fence with a shade topper and a masonry dugout, which we've designed 15 different ways and you can pick your favorite one or two and you can, you know, get numbers on that. That's not a that's not a big deal at all. >> Um, for Sheridan, am I able to get that TV turned back on? >> Um, if you get Dr. Sturgeon >> Oh, it's not even Oh, look what you did. >> Oh, that was Cara. Hair is magic. >> She's messing with you. >> He was kind of surprised himself. >> He's like, "Look at me." >>
090He saw us. >> Brian, how hard will this be for you and your maintenance staff to maintain the football fields and the softball fields with it? >> Probably easier what we are now trying to keep up all the mowing >> and lining. >> Yep. Lining. We're behind the line right now just because of the weather. >> Yeah. >> So, >> I don't dislike construction managers. I promise I don't. >> Um, I shared this with Victor at the same time. So, in May of 24, so about about two months before we prepared numbers for you all, we had open bids and shared and that's a natural field. They chose actually designed it to be synthetic. They bid it. It was too high. They couldn't afford it. We redesigned it as natural. They they fit on this.
091>> Now, those prices are are really aggressive. I would not tell you to walk away from this meeting saying that's what a natural field costs. But so what you see on this side is that's the that's the base. So that is um back stops, fences, masonry dugouts um and a natural plane surface. And then what we did is this was native soils. We asked for a price to do a sand cap system. So, a little bit more premium system. Um, pedestrian connectors were walkways and plazas. Not not extensive, not what was on the drawing, kind of a minimum ability to get ADA access. >> Common electrical, sports lighting, and then the irrigation because obviously we were going to choose to do a sand cap. We needed >> you can't do a sand system without irrigation.
092You'll burn that tree. So that total was in the low 1 millions to get a natural field with its minimum expectations. There was no press box. There was no common concourse. It was just again ADA roots. They believe they would come back and do that themselves over time and they have already built now a press box of their own. Um this is again it's not today's numbers. It's a year old and >> so today's numbers are better. >> Absolutely. They're half the price. >> Thank you for that. >> Trust me. Um >> this is this meeting is being recorded. Sorry. If you were if you were going to ask so what is a natural field if that's a minimum expectation and turf is a is a nice to have you're probably talking in the the
093low to mid ones say 1.3 just as a rough number to be able to get to that point. It's how many of those extra things do you need? Whether that's related to parking lots or it's related to masonry dugouts versus some other thing. Um, lights or no lights, all of those things would come into play. I don't think you can get to $3 million. I mean, you'd have to really do something to get to $3 million in my opinion. Um, now the parking lot was a huge bogey number. I don't remember what it was, but it was enormous. Um, so at some point you'll have to make that decision about and the town would have to be involved in this discussion as well about whether gravel versus asphalt. Um, I know their ordinance doesn't necessarily
094allow that, but you'd have to have a conversation openly about what is tolerable there. >> I think parking was like 350. >> That's probably right. >> So, I have a question. Uh, we're getting into having the football field that's going to have a 10year warranty. Um, by the time this project would potentially be done with an eight-year warranty, it almost as if we're overlapping when both of those might have to be replaced. I don't know. I don't know u from a money standpoint what that looks like as an obligation for the school corporation. Are we forfeiting something else by putting ourselves in the situation where in 10 years we're going to have to replace both fields? That's a question I don't know the answer to. I'm asking the people who live quite >> I don't
095know what agreement you signed with sprinter turf what the total was for the fields the carpet to replace it is typically right at 50% of the cost of what that original >> and that's what they told us >> yeah almost to the to the penny each time >> in today's dollars >> y it won't be in 10 years >> I will tell you that turf it's being recorded I'll tell you anyway um turf has not escalated like other trades have and I think part of that is due to the competitiveness in the market. So, um >> yeah, >> turf vendors hate each other. So, they don't want anyone else to win. They just want their company to win. So, prices tend to stay a little bit more. >> That might have almost been a direct
096quote from the person who is doing our work. >> Is it >> I will get this job. >> They uh they definitely do seem to be aggressive. So, where we've seen natural construction, um, we met with Indie Premiere about some natural soccer fields early in the week. We shared with them what our expectations for costs were. And they were three times what they paid 5 years prior to do fields. And I don't own a I don't own a construction company. Yeah. >> I can only tell you what it costs when we bid them. to my good fortune. They said, "Well, that's actually the same number that two other people gave us, so we don't think you're crazy, but we don't understand what's happening." The story line is very simple. 10 years ago, there were five
097highly qualified natural field constructors in this market right now. There are two, and one of them is desperately trying to sell their company because they don't want to do it anymore. So when you have so little people building natural fields, the price for those natural fields is going up pretty rapidly. And the opposite is happening with turf. You have more turf companies coming to the market because of how much is being sold in Indiana. And I'm not making this up. I learned this a week ago. There are more fields being sold in Indiana than any other state other than Texas. >> Wow. >> That's crazy. Like that is crazy. But the Keeping Up with the Joneses, for some reason, you're wired for that. like if somebody has something, we have to also have it. Um,
098so the quantity of fields per capita is off the charts now. That won't last forever. Um, but so I know that that's aggressive. It's hard. >> The picture of Sheridan or the quote you from a year ago from Sheridan High School you just had up there. Do you happen to have a rent similar to this one? >> What it may have looked like for that quote? getting on my server. I might be able to do that. >> And Stacy, to your uh to your point, I think what we'd if those two things end up being concurrent, I think that's that's probably an expense that the board's got to to start ask you you'd have to escrow at least some of that, you know, maybe 50% of the cost. you start earmarking that in your rainy
099day fund and and that's that's a that's a you know >> I think when I asked that question I was told there was going to be bonds falling off or like money more money available like less payments to repayment. >> Yeah. >> And there will be >> yeah we we'll have some debt service be relieved by then but you probably again >> you'll there will be other things that >> other roofs will need replaced by then other chillers probably. Yes, they will. >> Would we still be keeping our lease with JA? I know that's I mean a chunk of money that we pay yearly. >> It it's not a huge chunk of money and my guess is that if probably we would ask our softball program that you might still want to have that field
100available in season for >> JV for whatever. >> I don't know. My brain >> the town may not want to lease it to us if you know they might say they need to reuse sports too. >> My brain is 15 years ahead >> because if if we want to grow things, right? That's that's the decisions we make about this are going to drive our capabilities to expand because we know we have other projects that we have to address is is the only reason why I'm asking some of those questions. >> Well, and you know, one thing that we haven't talked about for a while and I If Dr. Henshaw could kick me under the table from there, he probably would. But, um, we haven't even talked about what we want to do with the middle
101school fields. And we have two fields at the middle school that that, you know, wouldn't take very long to put fences and reduce some dugouts there. I mean, you could spend $250,000 on those two fields of the middle school without batting an eye if you start replacing fences and some other stuff. And we we're going to >> we have some updated pricing on that Ryan has gotten for us. So, >> so, so what's the best next step? >> We have more on our list. >> Will you go through your list of needs? Because to me there's only it's like press box. >> Well, you need safety nets. >> We believe you would need batting cages, scoreboard, lights. We talked a little bit about dugouts. The things that we would add would be electricity for that.
102The depths of the dugouts are important in my opinion because I've been to fields where they're very narrow on the inside and you can't even walk past another player. It's almost like you're walking on top of a player. So, I think you need to have the dugouts. Fred may be able to speak to this. If there's a standard size that a lot of schools utilize, but I think depth of the dugout is something that we had looked at. um you know, bleachers, press box. I think that if this facility does move forward, the bathrooms have to be uh this would probably be a need to expand those bathrooms. I think you can never have enough storage. I I just feel like in everywhere I've been when we've done a building project, storage is taken up
103extremely quickly. Um >> I just wonder on on that side too, just just to interject. I'm not suggesting we start dropping storage sheds all over the the property, but I also wonder, can you address storage and and a changing facility? You guys hit way more fields than I I ever have or will >> like in a cleat house. >> Yeah. >> That could be built for expansion. I mean, build where you could blow an end out and just >> add on to it. If you hold the 24 foot on the width, then you could just the length could be >> Could you put up a modular building somewhere within that foot? Well, I think too with with if you were going to keep the dugouts exactly the same, you could use one the visitor side
104for storage. They don't need a changing room. Uh, and then use the home site for changing. So, the dugouts still remain the same. They look the same. That one's for storage. That one's for changing. Why why does the visitors I'm sorry why did they not need our girls would they be changing for practice or is that more >> practice games a lot of them uh so when we go on the road the bus leaves like 3:40ish so they'll hang out after school and grab something to eat they'll change the locker room but they'll go u pretty much dress all they got to do and they'll have their sliding shorts on and then they'll just pull their okay >> put their pants on when we get there. Um the for here sometimes they'll come up, they'll
105take batting practice and shorts and a t-shirt or whatever. You know, something more relaxing like game that starts at 6:00. Most time we'll have them there at 3:45 and they will not be completely unformed until closer game time. >> Okay. >> We bullpens. We like bullpens. I think that's an important thing to have. I think those should be somewhat attached close proximity to the dugout. I you could say, well, go throw your bullpen out and left or right field outside the fence, but then you run into fans and lawn chairs and things like that. So, I think >> those would be things that we had discussed. safety nets, um, lighting, irrigation for the outfield, >> bleachers. >> We said that. >> Okay. >> Is the lighting a must right now or would it be a
106>> So, I would say >> so will it still be a contender for, you know, further into the state tournament if we don't have to >> host a sectional or regional, you would need to have lights because you're going to play backtoback games, Vicki, and you play one at five, maybe one at seven. Typical game can take two hours. you're getting into nine that you're just rolling the dice on getting that second game in. Um >> the other thing is if we want to maximize the use if you know we know we all know there's blood playing down there. So if we want to keep JA and utilize that for middle school but we want to run varsity and JV on our field you have lights you can do those games back to back. >>
107Yeah >> it's preferable for them to run s more simultaneously for the length of the evening. However, if we want to maximize that use, >> well, imagine conference games don't start till 6:00 p.m. We played Mount Vernon two years ago. Here, the one light was burned out in right field. Mhm. >> The umpires were this close to calling the game. Send them up home could bring them back the next day >> and we're like so um in the conference schedule all games start at 6:00 except for Newcastle because they don't have flights >> and it's not a problem for us but for some other schools have to travel a little further. >> It's because until we move that because the games used to be at 5:30 uh in our conference meeting we agreed to go
108six o'clock across the board. when we had a 5:30 game at New Pal, we were getting off the bus at 510. >> I mean, that's that's kind of an unfair advantage. So, I think the lights are definitely uh need. So, it was back to back nights. >> We also identified a few new complexes that we would really like to go take a look at. Um, and these were some facilities that >> field trip baby. >> Yeah. that you know between them knowing of new facilities and Paul's contacts but uh Peru Oakill was a big one we would like to go visit um Madison Grant Pendleton and Newcastle's dugouts and back stops I think was something >> a baseball field >> yeah to to see how that was done because it's >> we may want to
109forbid you from going and looking at other people's houses to see things that you like and want Stacy >> I'm coming in under budget >> I Rachel. >> Hey, in all seriousness, I I I will say that, you know, I had coffee with Rachel a couple of weeks ago. Yeah. >> And >> I think there's opportunity through the foundation uh as well. And maybe uh I mean Rachel was told me she was going to hit up some of their seed companies and some other people that probably have never been tapped for sponsorship money. And so as we develop that list for for Fred to to consider uh and and again you put everything on there and then are there things that the foundation and or the booster group that that could potentially you mentioned windcreens
110and things like that or are there things that we could get sponsored or paid paid for through something outside of the bond and outside the corporation? >> Dr. was it you that said the dugouts down at the JA field on the softball side were paid for by our boosters >> at the sports park. >> Uhhuh. >> I believe that is right. >> You could buy it. >> They were ups or whatever with your name on it that help pay for them. >> They I think that's >> I think you're Do we still have an active softball booster or Okay. >> We don't have a lot of money but we have a booster. That's a start. >> I think there was a lot of money that was raised when baseball uh did that project and they
111sold those the bricks and whatnot. Yeah. So, I think there that's definitely an opportunity to capture some contributions. >> I think those are helpful for like wind screens, but it's not going to move the needle on >> are we going to do a nicer dugout? like looking at your pricing, looking at skillman's, all those things we just mentioned or needs are the difference between that grass field and what we're trying to get. So it it probably is two to two and a half million when it's all said and done when you start adding parking lots. Those things are all needs. I don't to me there's a very small list of what is because I think it's been touted as like, hey, we're building the Taj Mahal. It's like I I don't see anything we can
112cut out on this list other than can you get rid of lights? Maybe, but it's not going to be ideal. So, >> I don't think you can do that. >> There's just not some big ticket items. You know, I think one of the questions is bleachers. When you look at all of our three or four estimates, uh Fred, those range from 30,000 to 200,000. So, I'm just curious what you see on bleachers for a softball field. The high end seemed unreasonable to me. But >> yeah, we we see fewer and fewer facilities doing them mainly because people are expecting to bring their chairs and lounge. >> It's if you didn't need a press if you didn't choose a press box, you probably wouldn't have bleachers at all. And if you did, they would be limited.
113I'm not suggesting to you that Graham Park has the right amount of seats, but if you've ever been there, there is one set on each side that's five rows deep and it's just meant for the 15 of us at the game that want to sit at a bleacher because the other 200 people are down the lines or chasing their kids, doing whatever they're doing, not necessarily >> so many press box and bleachers for you guys to talk through. Like what does that look like? Because it is changing. People bring their chairs and you know, game changer now. It's like can game changer at some point be connected to a scoreboard? I don't know. But >> I I I think the days of having bleachers down in third base dugout and first base dugout are extinct
114at softball. >> I think if you can have something behind the plate with a press box on top, that might fit your need. Even if it's seating for 75 people, >> depending on how we want to use that. If we want to do a press box, but you want to do something else underneath of it, >> then you wouldn't need to have bleachers. Keep in mind our modular press box estimate was 200 grand too. So I don't think it's >> we were doing something. We got it done. >> With that being said with a semi-state you got to have such a large capacity to be able to host four. >> That's what I was going to mention is if you are looking to host tournaments and things like that then >> yeah I I don't
115think for a sectional the seating is as relevant as it is as you advance through the tournament. In a regional one school's going to host or not >> to host a section now and they don't have hardly any seat. Correct. >> But you go to Twin Legs and >> anything else, but they have a large >> it's from dugout to dugout wrapped around. >> So is there a requirement to host semi-state? >> I >> there are some requirements. I can't tell you what the specifics are because it's sport by sport that um when we start our season, we basically have to do a facility assessment of what our capacity is and things like that. Most semi-state locations, Jason, on either football or excuse me, softball or baseball, there's adequate seating. I don't know if I'm
116just speaking for myself. I think hosting a sectional would be enough. I mean, semi-state, you're you're talking you need to have some good facilities, good proximity. you should, you know, have the ability to have some in between games like when we would go to Twin Lakes if we didn't go to a hotel. >> I think it'd be interesting to know that. I mean, at the point we're going to do this, you want to be just a little bit short, right? Like I mean, I don't know. I mean, if that number's >> 2500, then maybe not. But, >> and for New Pal, they have theirs just straight behind home plate, nothing on the sides, but they also have it down the left foot line and the right field line. And I believe do they hosted some
117state or they have I believe actually I think they were hosting the state championship game. >> Was that over co for the year after? >> No, I think you're right. >> Any rate but I think the bleachers out there are to hit that number whatever that number is. >> One thing to consider as you look for places to go Lebanon's uh it's our assistant athletic director. >> Yeah. Send me some just basic but the burm he said was a big hit that would help seating. Obviously we have some extra dirt currently but >> natural. He had some other small things like line of sight that would probably be helpful to you, but he said that you know just the ver in general has been a huge hit. He would do that again. So that's >>
118Did you do Lebanon? >> We didn't do Lebanon. We did do that wasn't a number we were back in the the bleacher that is behind home play which is a rectangle not a wrap around a horseshoe that was at the existing softball field. We had we moved that >> the additional seats in the end where they had they won two state championships before we moved the field. It was a concession to the coach who said over my dead body will you put turf in and the you know >> Bob Yoder Bob said well you don't need to be the softball coach because I'm not asking you we're putting a turf together. So what they got out of that was more seating. That was the negotiation. >> I'm being recorded. Bob doesn't >> for semi states
119Jason many times the IHSA is going to look at cost that you're >> they don't want to lose money on a semi-state. So >> capacity, >> they look at capacity. That's one thing they look at, but it's also, you know, what are you charging in expenses to run that term? >> I get it. Yeah, I would just if we're that close, right? We're going to do all this way. Let's not be just a little short of that. >> We can talk and get some information. >> I think that's something too. I've said he had to >> put something in the outfield just to get that number. >> The conversation that works for >> That's awesome. The conversation we normally hear is the folks that ticket were >> oh >> baseball softball will typically tell us
120that they sell 70 80 tickets a game >> on a big night they get to 150. So what they'll normally say is if you give us seating for 250 that should the biggest event we could ever host a >> and some of us some of them will say get me to 300 because I think that's more than I'm picking Twin Legs. That's more than I think Twin Legs has just to be competitive when you're down the line. I think you're probably talking at 250 to 300. We're not talking about thousand seats. >> Yeah. I think that's something that we forgot to mention that we talked about as well, having to have a fencing system in place so we could host to make sure that we are getting the gates. >> Yeah. >> Because like Paul
121said, bottom line for the IHSA, so if you just have an open space, they're not going to be interested in that. >> You all asked what so if they can come in from the other side of the sports park, >> right? You have to have it contained so that you can funnel them in through a gated ticket pay system. We don't really have anything currently set up. >> Oh, it is now. No. >> Well, no. I'm saying on so far in this design that hasn't really been brought up, >> right? That was in our Yeah, that's something I didn't It's on my on our list, but I haven't thought of that. Yeah, >> I thought we did because we had talked about even like one side, right? Yeah. >> I mean, yeah, I guess not
122on the outfield. >> Are you saying it needs to be on the outside, too? >> So, for Yeah, cuz like at JA, >> right, >> we're getting hosed. Yeah, but I guess you can park at soccer and just walk over. >> Yeah, that's true. >> Yeah, >> we we did talk it through. I don't think we've diagrammed anything, but we obviously need to control gate, but there is a strategy that had been penciled, but I don't see them on the drawings. I swear I'll be brief. Um, y'all asked what Sheridan looks like. So, this is the site plan. This is kind of south and west of the high school. So, parking is a huge parking lot in the middle of the south of that that new or that open field. Um, I told you it
123has very little concourse. It's literally just a 6ft walk behind the dugout and past the bullpens. So, all the way out to the parking lot to get in and around. Um, there's about 15t here. Again, that is that's not enough even for a five row set of bleachers. It's just enough for chairs um to to be set. Um, there are tieback poles, so it's a netted netted back stop. Netted back stops are cheaper now than chain link just because the price of metal is high. Um, so you'd be you'll spend more to get a chain link fence um than you will a net um at this moment. Um, I'll come back to that in a second. Um, we suggest the bullpens be as close to the dugouts as possible so your coaches can communicate with
124the kids without pushing them down the lines. That's pretty common today. Um, again, that was a natural field. Somebody will tell you this someday. Um, it's good to have friends. Um, the sad I chose the sod that field. Um, the sod came from Wrigley Field. >> Um, because the I just happen to know a guy who who consults for them. Um, the cubs decided they were going to resaw their field. They picked a certain species of grass. It was delivered. They changed their mind after it was delivered. They said, "What do you want to do with it? Guy calls me and says, "Do you have any clients that might want this?" Certainly do have a client that would want this. >> Wow. >> They'll probably put that somewhere on social media here in a little
125bit. >> Um, so they got the grass. >> No batting cages on on that one. Bren, >> um, there are no batting tunnels. Um, this is the dugout. Can I make that bigger? So basic 2/3 height masonry dugout. Um they put up some hooks. They did that themselves. Um we talked about the kind of full face fence on the front. Um just trying to keep it simple. >> Is it less cost to do half or is it about a wash >> once you've got the the cost for the steel and the roof which is going to be the same no matter the size. I think trying to again musthaves and nice to haves. We'll have a dugout that's 8t deep, which is kind of narrow, and it might be 30t long, which is sufficient, but
126it's not nice. 10 ft feels a little bit better. You'll have people say, "Give me 35, give me 40." Decator Central just had us do 50, which was an enormous dugout. Um, you can convince yourself that you need almost anything. Um, just ask Decator. I don't have marketing pictures. I have punch list pictures, but I'm just flashing them up if you want to see just kind of what the mind's eye is. So, um, again, kind of low back stop wall. This is the block, just CMU. That is what the baseball field has. Wasn't intended to be fancy. It was just intended to be the same. Um, that's the netted system that we talked about, which is 30 foot tall. So, pretty minimalistic, not the site layout. on the uh I think it was the Eastern
127baseball field had bullpin batting cage outside both sides. Is that what you're Is that >> Say it again. I'm sorry. >> It was bullpin and batting cage on each side. Is that you know when you think of batting cage is that what you're thinking or are you thinking something elsewhere on the site? Um >> it was >> they were back >> bullpin here, batting cage here, bullpin, batting cage each side. >> Yeah, I mean kind of like J is now. I think a lot most uh most schools have it in the outfield. I'm thinking Hamilton Heights, uh Hamilton Heights, New has theirs down their right field line. They may have it on. It can be noisy which is some of the reason that you see them moving them away but it depends how you're using
128the offseason is really that's what that's what I was using >> like one slab or two runs >> cage >> I mean you could but like I said if you did that you could always cut it into fours too and have >> uh again for I guess for sectional you got to give each team >> right >> certain times. >> Yeah. Um, so to answer your question, Jason, I don't know that it matters. >> That might be something to think about if you like that what I just described. >> I think it's better for game day there. I'm not sure if it's better for practice day and offseason. >> Game day is definitely better um just because it's right there and you don't have to get >> you're separated, right? >> I mean, they've got
129their space, you got yours, but I don't know how that plays in practice and offse. I think it would be it would be nicer and more convenient that way. >> It was a I liked it. It was a great setup and it was I was there for a game, right? So game day was great. I just don't know how work >> well on that. The more you cluster that there parents have to go further away from your dugout >> 100%. That was the first thing we said. >> Yep. >> No dad's uh here against the fence. >> So you put there cage there. I got to walk out the field. >> Yeah. >> The other thing to consider though, if we are thinking long term, if we have a a neutrally situated >> situation where
130it could be utilized by baseball and softball, >> I'm sorry. But a batting cage, I mean, we're talking a couple loads of either millings or gravel to put down in a >> slabs frame. Okay. I mean, if that's the that could be a additional add-on right down the >> few posts or I mean it's doesn't have to be like a full-blown something that we have to put out to build right >> manage that. >> Yes. I mean the other thing you come you in the future if baseball had a game on the same night then you're you know it'd be when do we get the when do we get the pages when you get the page kind of thing >> but so to reiterate your point you got a few ps give them theirs and
131give us ours is what I would assume When you're thinking about press box and bleacher seed, a lot of folks will talk about title N. I'm not I'm not advocating one way or the other, but just need to be aware of what you have versus what you need. >> Again, alternates could be your friend, but just want to be eyes wide open by >> Yeah. >> So, did we get a initial estimate? What' you say, Mr. trench a couple years ago for this. >> No, it's a it's just a conceptual estimate based on broad theory based on their market experience. That was from Skilman. Okay. >> And then we've had >> but I think it was based upon that layout roughly >> maybe. I mean it the the way the way I understand Skilman estimates
132is just based on kind of their bid history of various projects and so they're >> square footage price. >> Yeah. >> But I think they took that and said all right we have two dugouts we have x amount of square feet and they plugged it in there. >> I do think there was a program discussion and around that diagram but like we didn't have any earthwork or mass x or >> pipes or none of that could have been estimated. It was >> that's one of the big issues is like the site work is just a blanket number. It's like we really don't know until there's a topo and a civil plan. So that's the biggest bogey probably of we hope we have savings in sight work is because there's so many unknowns. If you think
133you're going to do turf, if that becomes a minimum expectation, it changes who will be interested in the project. Um I mentioned how many natural field builders there are versus synthetic. um you're going to have four or five biders that want to do that to your fields and they'll be willing to find people to do dugouts and they'll be willing to find people to do piping and so on and so the trades. Um that's how you get an aggressive number is I want the turf and I'm going to find a way to get this project because I'm going to get my basins on the horn. Get find the guy that's done the best roofing for me at the most aggressive. That's how you're going to drive this down. It's not not a construction manager saying
134here are my favorite five reverse and get in a commercial number that turf will be the difference. If you decide that you want to go natural with the total number will be less but we will have to work harder to get bid responses. That's as simple as that. Not a right or wrong. Just have to decide. So next step is to get the topo and utility ordered ASAP. >> Yep. and to get the the list as tight as you can get it. I mentioned we can't do storm water plants. The natural and synthetic have dramatically different storm water requirements. >> That might make sense to you. You can push 16 inches an hour of water through that turf. So, I've got to have huge ass pipes to be >> You're saying from a bid from
135a specification standpoint and a bidding process, you're not you're not doing that as an alternate. You're making that decision up front. And if you bid it and you don't like the response, then you're going to redo your specs and rebid it. >> Yeah, that exactly what happened to Sharon is we want a chur field. We have to have a turf field. We designed it all. We permitted it. We took it to market. And the number came back and they said we don't have that amount of money. >> So we repackaged it as a natural field. We moved it to a different area of the site for to lower site costs to do that. >> I I was wondering that myself. I guess um you said that this water is everything's running to this detention basin
136from this >> again just looking at USGS do the water generally on that site wants to go to the north and east >> generally speaking >> we have not studied any of the options for that >> there's some basic stuff was done by Ashton the tennis facility But it would have been confined to that corner and and obviously the storm water and some of that. But >> is that is it tied into storm water drain the tennis specific? >> No, there's a swale out there. I don't think there's any inlet at all. >> I don't remember a year later what they had done or not. There is a capture. Tom, >> that's already Can I kind of go back to 30,000 ft for just a few minutes? Can >> you absolutely can? Yes. >> So,
137I I think the first thing I would want every I think everybody in the room needs to know that all five board members are in agreement that softball is the next project on the list. and maybe I'll say next after the roof, but um it it is the next project on the list and and that has been so since sometime in late 2024. Um and I went back through and looked at the board minutes and I just there are a couple things I want to point out and I'm trying to be just just to put it in context. Back in July of 24, the board had a work session and at that point they were going to move forward with softball. And one of the things it says in the board minutes that in the
138discussion of cost, board members acknowledge the expenditures for softball may impact or limit the ability of the school district to fund synthetic turf at the varsity football facility. So there was an acknowledgement a year ago. Okay, if softball's our choice, it it may impact our ability to do something with football. And so then we get into September and that was the meeting at which there's I like it because the board minutes say extensive board discussion followed. That's an easy way to summarize the discussion, but that was the meeting where the board approved a million-doll commitment for football and it says and tableabling additional dis discussion of additional projects at that point. And so I'm trying to put that in context that if we're making the decision then that we're going to do softball and we're
139acknowledging that we don't have the money to do synthetic turf at football and softball and then we're making the decision that we're going to do synthetic turf on football. I I think logically what it says is we know that we may not have the ability to do both at the same time. Um, and then there's discussion in October and there's a meeting in November and and the board said in November that softball's on the list. We've got the pool on this list. There's some other stuff on here and but it says, you know, we're going to consider these improvements after we understand financing in 2025. That's the point we're at. Okay. So, I don't I don't think anybody's surprised that we're here. And Cara and I, maybe this is just inconvenient timing, but we got
140the pleasure of doing an hour and 45 minute call today for bond rating. Um, where I was going to use some analogies, but since we're live streaming, I'm not going to use them. I mean, I I compared it kind of to what you go through when you do your oral comps for your dissertation that you're basically on a call and all these expert finance people, they go through how long was the questionnaire? I think it was four single space pages and they ask us every single question on the questionnaire about financing and forecasting in the district. And then they're going to give us a rating. they will likely downgrade us a little bit. Probably not much, maybe not at all because our cash position isn't horrible in comparison to what it was. Um, and then
141after that, we stayed on the call for a due diligence call with our bond council and our financial adviser because of all the SEC continuing disclosure. All that to say, so we've very thoroughly in the leadup to this thought about all the the nuance of explaining, well, why is your balance in that fund this? And you told us last year this, but now you're telling us this. Um, and and so what I say is the other thing that's happened since the last board meeting is I've alerted them that our plan is to borrow the maximum that we can under this issuance that's forthcoming. That's why we're doing this bond rating cause for the sale of those bonds. So that is probably going to free up plus or minus another million and a half of funding
142that can be applied to softball. And there will be some amount of cash available. Well, what is that amount of cash that's available? We talked about that last month. And it's it's not unlimited, but I say all that to say that has to be a consideration when we're putting the list together of the needs. And so there's a balancing act to do that. I I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that we have the ability to do this and get this done, but we still have to have the consideration that you you do have to pay for it and you and you have to balance that against middle school fields and um the pool and auditorium and cosmetic things, whatever. So I I guess I'm kind of thinking through what are the
143next steps and I heard somebody ask that. But it seems to me like if you're in agreement and if you want if you want to make Fred leave and we can talk without him or something. But I mean he seems like the guy to me to take us forward in the planning process and to do the topo and all that kind of stuff. And then I would also say whether the board wants to look at some other facilities or the softball folks want to go look at some other facilities. That should probably happen. And then there probably should be a meeting, maybe not full board just because of the legal requirements to do that, but a board member, some softball folks, some high school folks to go through and construct that list with Fred as
144the designer and prioritizing. And I don't I don't know if you draw a red line of like this is the red line of of needs versus wants to go ahead and start putting some specs together and moving that part of the process forward to the degree that we can do that. Um >> can you put a timeline too to work backwards of when does that design process happen when you take it to bid and all that stuff just so we can prepare us if we want to get it ready for 2027 year. >> Yeah. So if if you were going to let's say that in August you get your toe boat done essentially in September and October you would design it in November you'd permit it. So by the end of the year you have
145a permit in hand and no matter what method you're going to choose you have the you have the opportunity to begin construction. >> If you choose to go down a method where the builder brings the permit that same set of documents is still going to be used. So you would essentially be saying here's our bid specs and our solution that we want you to deliver for us and then it's just whose responsibility to do those things fall in whose bucket are those >> so you really need those list of wants needs by September to start the design process >> once the topo's back then we would start >> have you ever been to Peru >> have you ever been to Oakill >> if you could give have a quote that would meet the needs of
146the financials and you give us Oakhill. I think she and everybody in this room would be tip and pink. Would you agree with that, Riley? >> Yeah. >> Oakill is if you've never seen it, Google it. It's something. It's not Cooko, but nobody is Cooko. >> They're still looking for the bodies for >> Yeah, that's Cookamos. They have they have locker rooms, bathrooms, concessions, kitchen tunnels under the ground. >> Wow. >> Loaded tractor and I was like, "What is I thought it was like a college weather. I didn't know what it was." >> But uh Oakill is like I said, I don't Everybody would be thrown into Oakill. That's and I have no idea what that cost would look like. But I mean, even just looking at this on page two, this taking out the
147the bleachers around the corner just giving us the back stop and then the the tower there. Expand those out. He said if you could find an extra million and a half. I don't know what the starting number is, but a million half on top of that. I I and I think Ryan, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you were kind of saying we're like the wants aren't like astronomical. I don't >> I think it's probably the wants are not um negotiable really. >> Yeah, I think they're all needs and there's a handful of like do you want more bleachers or less and do you want masonary dugouts versus non-masonary? The rest of it's like >> got >> you're not going to shave much off the number if unless you're cutting out press boxes
148or lights or things we all agree I think we need. And I I think there's there's a tendency anytime we look at these kinds of projects where and it's it's a very rational response to say if we're going to spend the money and do it, we should put everything that we think we can put in there now because the likelihood of adding it later after the fact is smaller. There's no doubt about that. Um the the reality of that also the downside of that is then it's really easy to go yeah but but we would like this and we would like this we would like this >> and the next thing you know you're you're across your budget line where you can't do it anymore. I mean football is a really good example of where
149the the total investment in football is going to be right at 2 million. Well, why? Well, we're there, so we might as well put in a new scoreboard and new clocks while we're there. Oh, by the way, when they did the excavation, they tore out the existing electrical supply, which was jerryrigged together anyway. So, we're in for several thousand more dollars to upgrade the electrical supply. We're going to redo the bleachers while we're there. Um, we're going to redo the press box while we're there. We're going to redo the concession stand while we're there. Guess what we're not going to do? We're not resurfacing the track. We're not putting in new fencing. I guarantee you, I guarantee you when it is done, members of the public are going to go, "Why didn't you resurface the
150track? Why didn't you put in new fencing? Why didn't you do this? Why why didn't you renovate the interior of the concession building, put in, you know, upgrade the restrooms?" Well, because there was a limit >> and and the board's in for a million. The board makes a commitment for a million, but they're going to spend two million when it's all done. And some of that's going to be paid back by sponsorships over the course of time and so forth. But that's the process that you go through is I think where this started and I'm sorry to go back into the past. But when I came to Yorktown, all I ever heard about softball was everybody thought it other than Paul, everybody thought it was a great field. It was a great solution because they
151remembered playing at the middle school and it was portrayed to me as this win-win of, you know, town had come together and built the youports facility and softball got this free field out of the deal and all this, but where it really starts to come back to me is they want their own field that they can control and it's theirs and it's exclusively theirs. and youth sports kids are not coming on that field when they're, you know, trying to play and so forth. So, if that's the if that's the starting point, then let's not not lose sight of that that we don't want to miss getting that in an effort to try to get every single thing in there that we want right now. So, there is a balancing act to try to figure that
152all out. I think we can get there, but I just Sorry, I'm not trying to use scare tactics, but I want you to have in the back of your mind that there is a limit to what we can do. >> Absolutely. So, >> and I think their their group, you know, including Rachel and Jeremy and um yeah, um we're all when we were talking through it, they're very aware of that and they they want what they want for the girls and we want that too, but they're also aware that they're part of the team. Being part of the team means there are other team members who need things as well. So, I don't foresee them trying to abuse anything. >> And this is I agree. I just think as you go through your list, I
153don't see a lot of what what do you cut right to get down. So I think we have it's not like we're throwing a dart at this point. We know it's going to be two and a half to $2 million in that range depending on how aggressive those bids come in. >> Yeah. >> If we're including that list of parking, we want a press box. Unless we're cutting out a function of that field, we're not going to see prices come down drastically. >> These are things that that Fred is aware of though that like we haven't even considered. And so seeing like that screen setup and and things like that, like we we didn't even talk about that, but after seeing it, we're like, "Oh, yeah." You know, and those >> I think you're saying
154are cost savings. I mean, we're not talking like half a million dollars. >> I think that's my point is like that number on Skillman's like 20 grand. So like, yeah, it saves a little bit, but it's not going to make it from a $2.5 million project. >> Find some of those across the board in different places, things that we're just not considering, that could maybe add up to more. The the other thing I want the board to know about our bond rating call is not once but at least twice they had questions for us about how we were planning for the impact of Senate Bill one. And so I was able to say well we discussed this at our board meeting two different times and then then they basically asked you know what's the impact
155going to be for you and I said no one knows. I mean we have an LSA run on it but literally nobody can tell us right >> and so there is that consideration. They say why why did your operations fund balance increase? I said because we're hedging trying to plan for whatever unknowns are out there for the impact of that complete change in what property tax assessment looks like. So again, I just want I want all those factors to be in the discussion and out of respect to the folks that are interested in softball, we're not asking you to consider that because that's not why we ask you to come and we we want to know what you want in the field and what the what kind of the minimums are for it to be
156useful to you. But this side of the room has to store that away somewhere too. So I to me I feel like the direction that the discussion is going is let's authorize Fred to get back on this and then let's start to try to con construct that list of what has to be in this facility and figure out if we can come up with a delivery method to get us a bid that we can afford. Do you need us to make any kind of a motion and and formalize that? >> He he's probably not going to give us a contract to sign tonight. So, it's probably not I mean, we'll we can put it in the minutes that if everybody's fine with that as a way to move forward that >> we're going to authorize
157him to >> pick up where he left off in September of 24. And and to be really honest, I mean, because the tobo is going to take a month, we're simply going to solicit a couple prices from local folks. That's really all that's going to we're not going to design anything in the next 30 days. There may be a programming meeting perhaps. There may be some drilling down on that, but it's not engineering. We're not going to get into spending any real heavy dollars. >> Do we need to approve signing the topo agreement or is that at the next board meeting? I mean, the quote we have from Ashton was all 40 acres and it's a year old. So, at a minimum, we'd have to get it updated. And then the question, I think, would
158just be is if we if we know logistically where you want to land the field, we'll get topo on the area that we need. If you don't yet know where you're going to do it, we should get a topo of the whole area so that we have that at our fingert. >> We generally don't take action in work sessions. I mean, I don't think there's any statute that says that you can't. Um and and I have authority to spend some money without board approvals which I could authorize if need to. So easy enough. >> All right, folks. I think we're going to wrap up. Anything else before we send everybody home? Fred, thank you so much for having very helpful questions. >> It is uh it's 7:58. We stand a journ.