School Board Business Meeting 03/06/2025

001e e e good evening and welcome to the Thursday March 6 2025 Scarboro Board of Education meeting uh Ray can we call the attendance please yes Mr here miss Leon here miss lstr here miss Peterson here Rock here here H here sler here here all right thank you so much would everyone please join me for the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all all right thank you so much um agenda item 5.0 is a consent agenda just for our information the February resignations retirements and new hires are in our um meeting material that Cheryl has uh put together with us so no action there um agenda item 6.0 are adjustments to the

002agenda are there any adjustments this evening there are none agenda item 7.0 is the superintendent report great thank you um so this evening uh I wanted to to start out by um just uh sharing with you um and with the public um some key Communications that went out today uh by now I think all of you are aware that we had an evacuation at the Wentworth school today um and I just want to start by uh saying how appreciative and thankful I am of uh the the quick response uh not just from our school staff but also from our Public Safety partners um I think that although uh an event like we experience today is certainly not one that we look forward to uh it certainly in um in my mind is one in which

003we should feel Pride because uh I think we rallied together we work really hard as a concerted team um and uh if you watch the press conference today which I have linked here as well um I think um fire chief kindelan made reference to that um that we do work uh collectively together on such a regular basis that when an event um or a crisis happens as uh the evacuation at Wentworth was today um we are able to really work well together and people aren't tripping over each other so um a huge thanks um to everyone involved for that um so just to kind of recap for folks uh so basically we had about 120 third and fourth graders who were up on a set of risers um on the stage uh in the Wentworth

004cafeteria uh we had uh one student um who um seemingly fainted off of the risers um and then um that precipitated other students expressing um some concerns um about respiratory symptoms Etc um again I have to say our Public Safety Partners were very thorough in their response um in um checking the uh area very closely and carefully they tested it um for multiple types of gases um all of which came empty um because they also had some mutual Aid from other departments uh they had another department go through and uh run the same tests um as a secondary precaution to make sure that nothing had been missed um at this time we um are going to be going through and looking at the video of um you know what that rehearsal was looking like and

005what transpired um but as I mentioned in the shared communication uh that was put out in a press release this afternoon one of the things that we are looking at um is we know that we had a concentrated number of students in a really small area um certainly um over the time in my career I have known students um to pass out um when they are on risers and so um you know that is something that we're exploring and we're also thinking ahead to you know is there a way to make sure that when we have a high number of concentrated students in a small area um are there some steps that we can take um to provide you know extra ventilation fans Etc um because I think you know uh that that can be

006a situation where um the you know the temperature can um rise we've got kids with um Lighting on them and um lots of feelings about being in public and performing uh so you know that is another area that we are looking at uh especially whereas our Public Safety Partners deemed uh that there was nothing physically happening at the school that was of a concern to our students I can move on unless there are questions about that no just a comment as a parent of a Wentworth student I really appreciated the really clear um and I know it may not have felt prompt in the moment but what was actually prompt communication that was ongoing throughout the day so thank you you're welcome and again just as you know pieces of information for the public I

007you know I did put in some of our key Communications into the the that slide um so that you can read the shared press release um that uh we did in concert with our Public Safety Partners uh Mrs Crosby's communication to to Wentworth families and then also um the uh press conference that was held so that if people are feeling like that they didn't hear all of the information this is certainly another way to have that for yourself moving on um typical things that I would uh include in the superintendent report um so in front of you you have the enrollment as of February 28th um as you know I've been providing this information to you on a monthly basis and so um again um if you want a comparison to how does this compare

008to January's end of month enrollment we are up three additional students and so I think that that you've kind of seen um you know that that we seem to be creeping along um and sprinkling in a few more students each month that has been the trend so um that those are the number uh where we are at and then um I would just share with you information about our upcoming professional development day uh for those of you who are parents you know that next Friday March 14th uh we are going to be having a professional development day for staff and so that means a no school day for students as you know we only have two of these days during the school year and so this time is super precious uh for us in terms

009of planning professional development for staff and the theme of the day uh next Friday is making content accessible and the majority of the sessions that are being offered are being led by our own um School staff so uh we have staff from all levels um that are going to be engaging um their peers um uh in a number of sessions and I've kind of given you a smatter to help you get a sense of what's in the day this is certainly not an exhaustive list um but the types of things that people are going um to have the choice of and again it is a choice-based day so there are multiple sessions being offered um and staff can select from those uh but uh some of the offerings include um support for specific applications and

010platforms that we use in the district with students um learning more about executive functioning supports differentiation strategies um brain-based learning using high impact instructional strategies in the classroom uh beginning to delve into uh ways that AI can be used responsibly in classrooms um in accordance with some of the procedures that you've recently seen um the IT director um share with you um looking at neurodiversity and um how to provide supports um to a greater extent for our growing population of multilingual Learners so again I just want to um thank you these kinds of days really are instrumental for us um in ensuring that our staff have the time needed to support their professional growth um because they just really are very limited opportunities for us as you know with our school calendar thank you Diane

011are there any questions for Diane all right agenda item 8.0 is the chair report um I have two things um first I would like to piggyback on what you were saying um in your thanks to the Our Community Partners with the police department and the fire department um I think it's it's really our our partnership is really meaningful and um it allows us to prepare and plan for events when you can't really prepare prepare and and plan and um I really appreciate the hard work for if you would pass that along for us um it's it's really helpful it's hard to you know today when um there's a lot of information out and people are you know understandably very nervous about what's going on your communication was really spot-on and helpful to fr's point and

012um I really appreciate that it's as I was telling someone um earlier it's hard to say you know take a deep breath but know that your kids are in really really good hands and that's the important thing um that that that I hope is a takeaway for all of our families is that our kids are in really really good hands with our our people here and um that that is important to us as well so thank you um to to you and to Ry and to to the um Kelly of course and Nate at the high school everybody who worked this is this was a big a big day so thank you for that um the second thing I have is that the um sbac is decid Ed to they are not in a position

013to offer any new information at the March what should be our March 19th um update Town Council Schoolboard update um they did they were just in front of us well semi they were they were in the room with us at our workshop last week and they're looking for as you know later on we get to it they're looking for some direction from us um tonight and so they did not think that March 19th was um a good day for a new update so they've asked to BU to April um that meeting is a is a meeting that should be occurring with the town council meeting so I have been in touch with councelor cther and it looks like um it will be April 2nd so that is a tenative date she says but it looks

014like that is where they've likely landed so March 19th is off and April 2nd would be the new the new date for that any questions for me you have an idea about what time is um let me hold on my so just I'm looking for the time of that meeting yeah I'm just looking at my um I apologize to look at my calendar but um usually the I we have it scheduled for six on the 19th so I presume it would be it would be the same all right um agenda item 9.0 our committee reports and we'll start with the building committee so we go to Alyssa and Jillian um so the building committee has completed their first um survey it's now closed we had 1,200 um full responses with 23 Paper responses and 613

015partial so a huge um turnout and response for that so um we're excited to have that we will have the full um results on the 7th and they'll be presented to the ESAT committee on the 10th um We are continuing um efforts to refine the options um and um looking at ways to decrease costs um while really trying to stress and respect the um um budget that we had received in the initial survey um from the um the community on what they were willing to see in tax increases um for later discussion um I'll go further into depth with this but the sbac leadership um and committee has asked for our um guidance in um how best to rank their benchmarking criteria um in order to bring um the B uh Boe and the Town

016Council along with them in the process um as Shannon has just mentioned we are bumping out the um joint um Town Council and Boe update to P pending April 2nd um and then the other update is that um Herman did present to us a new Ab option um it is a mix of two options that did pre-exist and um so there has been a an initial um option that has has grown from the from the review um so we're going to hopefully start to decrease our options on Monday um Monday and the following week believe it's the 10th and 7th 17th um excuse me and vote on the 24th so hopefully by the time that we are being updated as a board and a Town Council we have been able to um decrease some of

017the options anything dad I I I just wanted to highlight that uh you know we we're we're asking for this as another data point um we've collected information from the survey we'll hear about that the committee has their opinions they you know looking for feedback from the board mostly on non-negotiables I think you know the the idea being there's a lot that we really need to accomplish in this school project but the committee needs to know that what they bring forth the board will support and so that they're asking for that information from from us is there any questions for Jillian or Lissa um I have a question and an ask my ask is when you get your survey report can you please make sure the board and the council get that yeah absolutely absolutely

018so we will have the information back tomorrow but the whole the committee will review it on Monday so we will I mean I can I can send it along as soon as we get it that would be yeah the other thing that I would just mention is it is my understanding that Emily um our Communications person from haramen is going to be taking that raw data and putting it in a more presentable format and so I guess um that raises a question of you know um if it makes more sense to wait to share that um when that format is is in that form versus just sending you raw data yeah like for instance we got like hundreds of comments because as hopefully most of you saw there was there were a number of places

019you could write in an opinion or a comment and so spread that over 1,800 or so people and yeah there's a lot of comments so we're going to try to distill that down into categories of some sort too and so and if you'd like we can start with hand um providing the uh data that Emily had or will will be presenting to us as well and then um for any Boe or town council member that would like to see the more raw data we can move that along as well yeah because I um I would like to see I would like to take the time to read all the comments myself and I imagine there's likely others but I would also be interested in seeing Emily's report as well that would be great um and

020then my question is do I understand you that we now have an a option A B option all the others and then an AB option well it's like these projects as we get more information and we talk about things and we figure out what's going to work they're sort of morphing and changing um into maybe things that make a little more sense or they they uh kind of combine ideas I think Herman has encouraged us all to um and community members as well to really keep an open mind and you know we're working with what Scarboro has to offer so we can't just make acreage we can't just make option you know there are certain things that you know people these options were designed and then we're asking them to cut back and we're asking

021them to find places where we can you know get within our budgetary needs so um there is the new option but it's because of the where the committee is growing to and looking at things it's not that um it's kind of an out of the blue it's more of something that has developed through the limitations that we're seeing the asks that we're having and the way the committee is growing more so than just another new Option but yes it does carry a new name yeah and again it comes from um asks direct asks from members of the committee to herbin right so as a point of clarity Herman is not saying hey have you thought about this people are making specific requests can you show us what it would look like if we did XYZ

022yeah which I think is great I appreciate that the committee is thinking that way I let me rephrase a little bit do we still do we have do we still have option A on the table did let me did the committee vote to remove option A and B and in its place we have AB no no okay so no options have been eliminated um we're waiting to hear back from the committee uh the community because that is very important we need the community uh Community to be brought along with us we're waiting to hear back from today's discussion regarding our Benchmark priorities see what the board is finding because again we want to bring the board along with us and the Town Council so um we are holding off on eliminating anything until we have

023more data got it thank you all all right next is our Communications committee oh all right so uh we we met this morning uh and you we're continuing to work on the senior citizen appreciation dinner I have some flyers here that uh Ray got printed out today uh if anybody would kindly take one to put up in a location that maybe seniors would uh frequent that would be great um if you know maybe in your community or uh in a in a grocery store coffee shop wherever wherever you might go um we are so basically looking for help getting the word out uh it is in the um Community Services book but um and it's on Facebook uh it will be a recurring ad on Facebook um but you know just getting the word out

024to our senior members who may not look on Facebook or maybe they don't use the community services as much but um registrations don't close until the 1 uh we have a 100 100 spaces available um and if anybody has any idea for door prizes any business that would be willing to donate we would love for you to go out and get that or let us know what your idea is um we are just continuing to work on the updates in the newsletters getting things out um in both of those and of course always looking for more information if there's something that you feel like would be good to share we are happy to make sure that happens um and just looking for any feedback if uh if you feel like what we're putting out there

025is helpful or useful or not that's pretty much so thank you are there any questions for Jillian all right next is curriculum we'll hand it over to Jenna yep so we have we have not met but we are meeting um March 20th at 8 AM tonight uh we are planning to discuss some curriculum review um Hot Topic digital citizenship and digital literacy just kind of what does that look like um and Katie Katie vro is also going to be going over K through five social studies K through 5 Ela K through2 World Language and stem curriculums um and then have an overview of winter and spring assessments than you are there any questions for Jenna that's Jenna I'm really interested in hearing what comes of the ditos digital citizenship and literacy that's the area when

026we talked when we've been you know talking consistently about cell phone policy since June um that is the area where I think we can make the most difference as it relates to addiction and cyber bullying and access to inappropriate material on and on right that's where I think the biggest um where we have the most opportunity to to affect change there so I'm I'm really interested to hear hear about that yeah likewise I mean I know our our students get this curriculum but I think it'd be helpful to hear what that actually looks like for our families um to see what it is what is this content that they're receiving about this stuff absolutely all right you want to keep going Finance let's do it so we met just this last Monday um it was

027an interesting conversation but the first thing is a good update so am I saying that correctly our bus come um a contracted bus company uh they have offered to purchase three of our aging buses so historically the Aging buses go off to auction and apparently we don't get a whole lot of money out of it but dero has offered to purchase three of them for 10,000 I believe I wrote down um and we don't have to go through any sort of process to vote on it or anything we feel like this is a great thing um give us give us more money please um and then we got a budget process update so some of the things for budgets every year our budget drivers uh are the anthem rates and right now our we currently

028have an open collective bargaining um contract that's being discussed with the teachers so that's those are driving up our our budgets at the moment and it seems as though not much new is going to be added to this year's budget um so the amount that's going to be presented is to sustain current operating conditions um so I'm we'll be interested to hear about all of the things that are going to go in it at our budget Workshop um which are coming up so March 18th from 4 to 7 at the Wentworth school and March 19th from 8:30 to 11: at Town Hall great thank you there any questions or any comments okay negotiations so as Jenna just mentioned um we're um in in ongoing negotiations um with our Professional Services contract affectionately known as our

029teachers contract which is one of our is our biggest um agreement uh and that goes ongoing uh obviously our board goal is to complete this contract by the end of the school year there a couple other smaller um agreements that we also are going to I think start to try to work on um ideally we do wanted a time but sometimes especially as we are looking at Spring we need to get going on all of them any questions for f all right I'm G to carry on with policy so our last policy meeting was just before this meeting uh we just had it um we uh reviewed the 2526 calendar which is going to be up later for vote uh we um we're going to you're going to see the title line policies don't sh

030and horror quite yet back on the agenda next uh next meeting um there has been a change there's been a legal process that has changed the implementation of that policy um and so it will be a relatively given our last votes painless process to revert back to the what current would be congruent with current law um as what our current policies are are now out of line with law um even though when we voted them men they were in line with law um so we need to do that so be aware they're going to come back I think probably bundled together it's going to be it's going to be relatively quick we're not going through each policy again um and uh that's six months of our policy meeting time we can't get back um we

031also had a couple other policies we're looking at uh the school facilities which is brought forward by um our facilities director and um we're looking at our student transportation policy and then we're going to start looking at policies so my right column of upcoming policies is a very blank not all those lovely B columns on um um Diane in the last few years has done an amazing job putting together all of our policies um noting which ones are mandatory which ones are optional and the date at which we have last reviewed them we are going to switch to a reverse chronological process to review the oldest policies first um bringing them forward instead of going through an alphabetical order and that way my hope is that we will be able to bring our policies back

032up we will get all of them into the 2000s because believe it or not we have a 1983 policy from the year 1983 uh that needs to be reviewed and um and we're going I know I know it's a long time ago um so we're gonna go through those and bring them up to date were you born yet mitel were you born were you born yet I was born in 2003 there you go there you go we're gonna make sure all those policies come back into after after you were born that'll be our new Benchmark 80s were a great decade Mitchell I'm just saying all right are there any questions for fra okay agenda item 10.0 are Lis on reports are there any Layon reports this evening briefly I'm not going to go through all

033of the many pending bills in the legislature but the legislature is cranking right now this is Prime season to have public hearings and workshops on bills um some very um hotly contested and Scarboro items are up um most notably and don't shudder or Kill the Messenger but there's a very big push for school start times at the Statewide level the board here is not involved in that conversation um but the N but the Statewide officers are so so that nobody's caught unawares if you have thoughts on that you should absolutely reach out to your representative and have share your feelings with them um but that is that is one that definitely caught my eye there's a few other policies um but that's the one that there's a major push um from a lot of powerful

034figures within the legislature to get that through led by the speaker of the of the speaker of the house I'm sorry to clarify that's literally the the state would be dictating when schools start stop all the it's it would be an 8:30 start time school high school would start no later no earlier than 8:30 thank you I would encourage you to reach out to your representatives about your feelings on this policy I'll I'll just piggyback on this a little bit there's another Bild that's floating out there um that is sponsored by um senator brener who is one of our Senators and it's a um it's a bill to uh start a um cell phone pouch program um for lack of a better word there's not a name there's not a they're not they're not calling

035it a Yonder pouch program but a pouch program where districts can apply for a grant um to outfit their District in a pouch to cell phones in during the school day so that you would you know have a bell-to-bell ban um it does carry a $250,000 price tag and um with the funding at the state level the way it is I don't anticipate that it's going to grow legs this year but um I keep watching fra is watching um if we see anything uh we're happy to to bring that forward and then um I have talked very brief briefly with freand but I haven't circled back around I'm interested in us um really working on developing a better relationship with our local with our state um elected officials um when things like this happen like

036the start time for example which another one of our local um or well our state officials is elected officials is um has signed on to that um I would love to have a really good robust working relationship where they reach out to us and ask what our thoughts are how would this impact Scarboro um and so I'm interested in us really sitting down and fra is the liaison um legislative liaison and me as the chair just figuring out how we can really develop that relationship does it look like they come to maybe we invite them to a yearly Workshop um do we sort of how do we how do we make sure we're all working really cohesively together is what I'm interested in driving at so more to come on more to come on that

037all right any other reports or questions or comments I I I spoke with counselor uh Donovan today and there really aren't a lot of things on the Forefront for the council they're obviously their biggest concern is the budget process which uh they will be partner partnering with us once again though to have round taes and some other things so we you know the board and the council will be that will be our biggest thing yeah upcoming and of course the school project but yeah no surprises there yeah thank you all right agenda item 11.0 our student reports so turn it over to Grayson ABY um so the middle schoolers um at the beginning of February had abandoned chorus concert which is pictured above um and then also at the Middle School eighth graders engaged in

038a presentation and Q&A with award-winning author Neil Schusterman and then at the high school members of oakill players um put on a production of Frankenstein this past weekend and then this upcoming weekend they will be um performing at the main one act Festival so last weekend was Main's robotics Vex State Championship where the high school robotics Club competed and one of the Scaro teams 344 R won an award called the innovate award which recognizes an effective design process for a novel aspect of the team's robot design and also three Scarboro high school students won awards from an organization called ncwit which recognizes women in Computing and technology and also the computer science and Robotics teacher Miss Avery was recognized as Main's like educator award so so those are pictures from the robotics meet so in

039the left picture um the robot on the right is my team's robot so yeah that's awesome very so how did how did you play how did the teams place um so two of our teams made it to like the qualifying rounds but we lost in like quarterfinals oh but so one team still won award which is cool very cool and then did you have anything from your state board meeting today uh today we discussed mental health and like what schools can do to like better address the needs of students so interesting yeah did you talk about just out of curiosity did you talk about cell phone addiction cyber bullying anything I mentioned earlier specifically or was it more of a general we didn't talk about like phones we talked more about like access for support

040for students so like how can we um create better programs to like help educate like students like where they can go to get help or like who they can go to get help yeah it wasn't as much of like a phone phones weren't really brought yeah very cool yeah that's awesome all right any questions or comments for the student reps right agenda item 12.0 is general public comment is there anyone wishing to make General Public comment about anything not on the agenda this evening have anybody all right seeing none I will close general public comment I would like to call an audible um just because in um I I would love to be able to allow um our deputy chief to leave after his presentation so even though I didn't ask for this earlier if

041everybody is in agreeance I would like to flip 131 and 132 and allow the um allow us to hear the police presentation first so that he can go back to work or go home and doesn't and then we can carry on is that is that a acceptable okay all right so then our 13.1 is the Scarboro Police Department body cams presentation we'd love to welcome you to the front I just wanted to start off by thanking you very much for the kind words at the beginning of the meeting and also let you know how much all of our Public Safety team uh values the working relationship that we have with the school department um and we know how much of difference that makes with the service that we're able to provide so thank you um

042I also appreciate the opportunity tonight to speak to you a little bit about our body warn camera program uh that we've just started to deploy um just some background to start but the uh the following slides or the initial slides are a lot of background information I'll go through those fairly quickly but if there are any questions during those please feel free to stop me at any time uh as far as background the uh the initial push for the cameras both 41 cameras and we're deploying at the end of the month Cruiser cameras came from our staff at the police department the cameras themselves have existed since the late 199s going back in history again and uh over the years they have not only become uh much better in their technology but also they become

043much more common and much more accepted and uh have become an industry standard for us to meet um as much as anything uh we're one of the few departments in Southern Maine that before this program did not possess either bodyw warn or cruiser cameras uh dating myself again going back to VHS tapes uh the department back in the uh late 80s early 90s we had uh Cruiser cameras uh that we deployed but the technology at that time just wasn't that good in uh not uh probably about 5 years after we had them uh we disbanded the program um I think the push by our staff to have the cameras also spoke a lot about the idea of the need and that they uh they saw the value in the product and they also saw that

044in order to meet the standards both of um not only the community but what the courts were requiring we needed to move forward with this process we started out with the needs assessment and um right through the whole process we included the town it Department um to make sure that we were looking at not only appropriate technology to meet our needs but also uh technology that met security needs and needs for the future um once we develop that needs assessment we reached out to all of the manufacturers that uh that made body cameras we narrowed down to three different companies um that met all of the needs that we had identified and then we did um demonstrations and actual field demonstrations with their products and uh this took place over about a uh two to

045threee period and then this past year um we were able to put together a uh a CIP project that we presented to the Town Council uh went through the Town Council budget process and then uh because of the dollar amount needed to uh needed to be approved by the voters which took place in November of this past year uh since that time we've been working to get uh training uh policy together uh order equipment get uh everything in and outfitted which in and of itself has been a process some of the justification for the uh for the equipment um risk management for officer safety um and some of the different things that the cameras provide including GPS location um support of testimony for officers and key Witnesses in courtroom uh criminal proceedings so that that

046uh materials available uh it's like I mentioned it's become a a standard that's expected um when cases go to the DA's office they don't turn them away without that video evidence but they certainly um they don't look at them as highly without that evidence uh provides increased transparency with our citizens when it's material that we can release publicly um also assist with employee performance evaluations and training uh part of our policy is a program where supervisors randomly review um at least two recordings a month for the officers that are assigned to their team for training not only training and evaluation purposes but if there are equipment needs sometimes those are identified in those reviews or will be as well benefits of the camera system uh officer safety one of the features of the body warn

047cameras is they have the ability for uh live streaming both audio and video something that isn't used day in and day out but in a crisis situation that an office is involved in uh if they need help it allows dispatch to tune in see what the officer is seeing through their camera if they can't communicate or if they can't use their hands it also allows for audio for those officers to communicate back to dispatch and for them to have a an idea of what's going on and what help is needed at that time also risk management um as I mentioned with um policy compliance and as the uh supervisors review that video they look for the officer compliance with all of our department policies some benefits of the camera system as I mentioned with uh

048the courtroom procedures at one time uh the cameras and the quality of the footage our district attorney's office actually didn't uh necessarily uh look for that video footage and was even at times critical of it because it didn't show the detail in some of the cases that the officers were bringing forward but today our district attorney uh is not only supportive but has been C critical of departments that do not have the technology deployed also the increased public transparency um if there is video footage that can be released and I'm sure everyone here has seen it at different times in the news media that there's that public expectation now that if there is footage and it is available to the public that people uh feel that they have a right and should be able to

049see that footage uh the next slide is uh some of the different ways uh that the benefits come through with the cameras in different types of calls like uh traffic stops most of the uh work with the cameras where they use regularly will be our Patrol Division uh for traffic stops high-risk calls use of force situations vehicle Pursuits with the cruiser cameras and then uh interactions with uh mental health substance use calls that potentially are uh could be violent calls the next few slides would just for a background on other agencies in the area that already have deployed uh this list is the list of the agencies with both cameras uh that they're being used currently the next one is uh the agencies that are just using Cruiser cameras and then agencies with only 41

050cameras in our area uh as I mentioned Scot PD before this program was the only agency in cumin County that had not deployed either at least one of the camera systems um and that they were also prev throughout law enforcement uh and a tool that's become not only accepted but expected the uh in 2024 the Katherine Cutler Institute uh did a survey the results 77% of law enforcement agencies in main reported out of those 70% used body warn cameras at that time 21% were considering body warn cameras and 8% uh were either new neither using nor considering uh using the cameras at that time and that was up from 48% uh prior three years prior to that so school resource officers and body one cameras uh the policy that we have our agency is accredited

051through the main law enforcement accreditation program part of that accreditation is all of our policy needs to meet need to meet accreditation stand standards which include our body One camera policy the cameras are uh only activated uh when responding to uh calls for criminal conduct either interviewing uh victims or Witnesses or interviewing uh suspects in those cases um when their the cameras are activated there's a there's a slide coming up after after this one that has a picture but when the camera's activated you'll see what the camera looks like and how distinct it is that the camera has been activating and is recording at that time uh with the lights on the face of the camera um there is no recording in any areas where there is a reasonable expectation of privacy by individuals the

052officers either if they don't have the cameras off they by policy can also remove the cameras from their uh position on them and put them into their pockets or store them in some other manner uh if they need to be in those areas um persons being recorded are informed as soon as practical and safe to do so and the only time that that wouldn't be immediately as if the officer was responding to a crisis type of call which included some sort of altercation of violence where they may not be able to immediately let uh let individuals know that the uh that they recording at that time um the next slide actually shows a picture of the camera and then if it's uh turned on and recording the red lights on the face of the camera

053are on at that time our sro's um anytime the camera is turned on and activated those lights come on the only way those lights can be turned off is either to turn the camera off or there is a stealth mode after the camera is turned on that is only to be used by policy in a situation where the officer is uh in a officer safety situation a good example of that would be an overnight with a suspect in a building where the officers are searching the building for the suspect and that while they're doing that search uh that they don't want to be detected before uh they can detect the person that they're looking for uh as far as the crime report and just some statistics related to the schools and our SRO uh that

054go with that since September 1st of 2024 uh up to uh February 27th the high school we had one report that was a criminal report that our SRO responded to in the high school and potentially would have used the body warn camera device and at the middle school our middle school resource officer in our reports management system there were three reports that potentially um that the equipment might have been you or would have been used in those situations um also keep in mind that if interviews are taking place no matter who the individuals are those individual uh those interviews are taking place in private um in private areas they're not in public areas they're uh being done whether they're individuals that are witnesses or victims or suspects um if it's a juvenile involved in a

055situation that is a potential suspect it involves contact with the parents and uh communication with them prior and the ability for them to be present at any of those interviews and some of those situations even out of these four total since September of last year uh that reporting and uh those actions may have taken place at the police department as opposed to at the school um when they were reported so and we have uh I think it shows a picture as far as the criminal reports and I think uh one of the things that's very difficult in our line of work is uh proving a positive sometime and I think a lot of this goes to the fact that we are consistently involved with the schools uh in rule violations in being uh present for

056Safety and Security in the schools and that uh there are a lot of things that we hope don't happen because because of presence in the work that we do in partnership with the schools uh recording security the uh the evidence from the recordings is uploaded to a cloud storage called evidence.com one of the uh real benefits of this is that uh through our it Department it's unlimited cloud storage and not only our officers um video recordings but if we're meeting with people whether it's at the schools or in the community taking reports now we can give people or uh groups of people even push out a public link that if people have pictures video recordings if people are submitting written statements and want to do it electronically that they can submit that evidence that becomes

057part of the case um right through this portal and it attaches all of that evidence to the the case itself um as far as the recordings themselves uh we have uh we follow the main freedom of access act and just how those uh especially with criminal cases the made freedom of access act if there's a case that's criminal in nature and it's being investigated all of the information including the reports are considered private information the only thing that people have access to is if somebody makes a statement they have the access to their own statement and then they also uh if somebody is charged in a crime officially charged through the courts they have access to any of the evidence through um through Discovery in the courts during that process after they're charged um but

058any information including if we have a case that we've investigated with no suspects it's still considered an open case and that information is still considered private and even if we've charged somebody that the DA's office has decided to no complaint that case is still con considered open and uh and that information isn't public information uh if there is uh public information that is included in recordings the uh program that we purchased also includes redaction tools where if there's a portion of a video that's uh is available and uh we're told needs to be made made available to the public then we can uh do that by making only that portion of the video available I know that's a lot of information any questions all right do you have any question did you were you raising

059your hand were you going to raise your hand and I yeah Jenna if you have questions too just let us know okay go ahead so I understand you you're talking about the Freedom of Information Act um and how um these are public records at some point so if the case is closed after a case has been resolved um these become public records and how do we make sure that our kids information and images are private if they're captured on these videos the public information as far as the criminal cases and uh if somebody's charged that's only available to the person that's charged as far as part of their rights to uh to know all the information that the state has available it's not public information um as far as the information um if there are

060portions that are public information I think that the freedom of access laws protect the part of the information that you're talking about that protects uh protects students and their family that it wouldn't be able to be made public um we also any of the cases where there's a question about whether material can be uh released or not we initially deny that request and then the person certainly has a right to uh have that information reviewed by a judge will go into court a judge will review that information if the judge orders that that information is public and needs to be released then uh we certainly will release it but we we uh unless we feel confident that it's public information we wouldn't release it uh without being told that it's something we need to do

061yeah but police reports our public information after the case is either resolved or if a case is not brought so at some point police records become public information these would be part of those records and so I just want to make sure our parents and our citizens are extremely aware that our children's images are likely to be made public at some point they're not protected once they're become part of a police report that's public okay I'm not sure what information uh if the case are you saying if a criminal case was brought to a resolution and somebody was convicted that would be one way that the case is over but if a case if no charges are brought and the case is is done the case does not remain open forever um if the case

062is forwarded to the DA's office for charges and they either no complaint it or they prosecute it um in certain instances those are not those are public do juveniles have some protection but adults would not so this case pertain to an adult in this setting these would become public records yes yep and that information if it's uh I guess I'm trying to think of an example of what you might be referring to as far as becoming public record sure if you had a case against an adult in this system um and in that investigation during your investigation you activated the body warn camera and it captured images of children who were in the school during the course of that investigation once that charge was just finally disposed of those reports become public information so it's

063possible that these images could become public at some I I'm not anti-body warn camera but I also want people to be fully aware that these images can be made public in certain instuments and will maybe not in Scarboro but at some point School School images will become part of the public discourse when they're captured as part of information that's public records yeah I I guess the only thing else I would say to that is with the recording devices that already exist in the public areas of the school if somebody was to make that request and successfully uh be able to challenge in court that it was public record and it was ordered to be released um that that would all of that information or whatever information was ordered could be released my my disagreement with

064that be would be the school Department's records are are covered by furpa in a way that the police records are known okay so there there are never layers of here um that's my biggest my biggest concern can I ask a question off of that yeah uh like if the body warn camera is turned on and you have like someone specific that you're interviewing or anything like that but there are students walking in the background and things like that would those people be redacted because they're not involved in or they're just part of the footage yes and I think our officers are also an even before our body War cameras if if it's a crime that's been reported and our officers are speaking to whether it's a victim or Witnesses or somebody who's suspected of committing

065the crime that they are uh aware and that they're doing those interviews in private locations not not in public locations where other students might be at the time following up on that um when in your policy do officers turn the camera on so when what point during an investigation do they get turned on if it uh during a criminal investigation if the officers are um I guess it it depends on the situation if a crime's being reported to an officer and they're taking a criminal report and they're interviewing the victim of the crime or a witness or the suspect they would record those interviews uh interviews when they took place and so the camera wouldn't be during the entire investigation but just when they're doing the interviews or would it like if they're responding to

066a scene would it be on recording that entire time uh the only time it would be activated it at a scene would be if it was a scene that was a crime was taking place in their presence and that recording that scene might be beneficial to the prosecution of the crime and it's it would be up to the officer to activate that system it's not going to passively activate or like they have to physically trigger it to start yep it uh takes double pressing the front of the camera to to start it and then holding it for a minimum of three seconds to stop the recording um are would children ever be interviewed on camera without parental consent I know we' said suspects parents are called but what about Witnesses uh same with Witnesses if

067we're if they're juveniles and we're interviewing them then we contact the the parents as well in uh and they're aware of those situations if they decline to have or want to be present for those interviews they're always Avail able to do that can they decline to have their child interviewed sure can they declin to have their child recorded uh with a victim or a witness there's officer discretion there um a lot of times if it's uh depending on the situation if they're a y concerns um then the officer will not record uh victim or witness in a suspect interview um most often and this is just in criminal cases that are being investigated that a suspect would be interviewed and even prior to these cameras there's state laws recent state laws as far as that

068require recordings of suspect interviews for certain types of crimes in order for us to even do the interviews now and then finally I like your crime statistics um one one at the high school and three at the middle school that that is a you know we don't want to see any criminal reports in our schools but those numbers are certainly um nothing that raises alarm or concern for me um you seem to indicate that those would be the three times the videos may be used during the course of Investigation um were there more investigations that went forward but that may not have resulted in you they may have discovered there was no crime or it wasn't actually actionable that there so is there potential for more recording because this this definitely indicates like there's not

069going to be that much recording going on during that during the school day because that's four incidents that's relatively discrete number but would would there be more information captured before you decide which because you're don't know in the course of Investigation if something's going to be criminal or not so would would you likely be capturing more investigative materials and then doing using your discretion to decide how to process that information I I was actually some of the reports that enen was referring to that I only collected the information of the the ones that potentially could have been recorded some of those calls out of the four could have been turned out to be not crimes prior to uh prior to the officer uh at some point and it may have been a point after some

070recording had taken place or it may have been before any recording had taken place I'm just trying to get the scope of what it looks going to look like sure those are my questions how long is data stored for uh depends on the uh type of recording uh if it's a recording where um an accidental recording or a recording that doesn't have value it's a 30-day time period but depending on the type of crime if it's labeled for a type of crime then it has to go through uh a process as far as to make sure that it's uh retained as long as it might be needed for court thank you y um I just have two questions um the reasonable expectation of privacy does the reasonable expectation of privacy superseded a crime so in

071other words if the off if the SRO is responding to a potential criminal potential criminal activity and say the locker room would the re that's a place where reasonable expectation of privacy exists so would that would that supersede the criminal activity so that he would not be walking in the locker room recording correct okay the uh if there was uh a crime taking place in there the SRO would not be recording at the time of the response to the area where there's a reasonable expectation of privacy if the officer could eliminate all reasonable expectation of privacy if it was an area that was deemed that there was nobody there and there was no uh no reasonable expectation of privacy existed anymore but there was evidence of a crime there uh then just like an evidence

072technician going in and taking photos of a crime scene the officer may take still photos with the uh with their equipment whether it's their body One camera or another camera okay and then my second question is the stealth activity with the camera I I can't I'm trying to think and I can't come up with a reasonable um opportunity for that to be used in the school setting but is there something that you can think of in in which that might that might be utilized at school yeah hopefully never but if the officer was responding to an uh active shooter situation at the time and the person was in an area where the officer wanted to try not to be detected in that response is the only time I can think of I mean if the

073school was in the process of being vandalized and officers were on the scene they might if they were trying if they thought somebody was in the building they might if it was night time there's reasons to try to be evasive yes after I was and I think that's one of the important things with this is that one of the uh one of the points that's uh been highlighted through departments bringing on these programs is that uh an important aspect is consistency uh to the point where we've made the investment in cameras for all of our full-time officers instead of just a bank of cameras that officers can grab that may or may not be working we've seen other agencies that have uh had TR even troubles technology-wise with cameras um Auburn unfortunately an officer involved

074shooting where their technology just wasn't perfected yet but it always brings into question with Departments of I know of all kinds of times departments have been question for not having a recording I'm not aware of any times that departments have been scrutinized for having a recording right are there any other questions or thoughts all right thank you so much for coming this has been really helpful and informative and we appreciate you taking the time with us tonight thank you thank you um agenda item 13.2 then would be the sbac priority guidance so just very quickly before I turn it over to Lissa this was a request that came um from the sbac chair asking for some guidance from the school board as to priorities non-negotiables things that we consider um incredibly important for this building

075as they move forward there the committee is trying to wrap their arms around the solutions and what um what need as they look at the cost of the solutions what are what could possibly be eliminated to reduce the scope of the project and so there looking for some guidance from um from the board so that's where we're at but I am going to pass it over to Alyssa um to kind of tee up the conversation with the committee sure so the um gonna repeat some of what shanon said but um the ESAT committee has asked for the Boe to review the benchmarking criteria that the school committee a school board committee is um using in order to compare the building options at this time um we're also collecting a community survey and Community opinion in

076order to um use that in the evaluation process so this is one of the pieces um to be used um in order to ensure that we're addressing the specific requests of the committee I did ask for a strong understanding of what the committee was requesting and in what structure um the sbac would like that feedback to be provided in and the um committee has asked that we uh rank the priorities if possible um request specific guidance on what they what we would like done about our Portables and asked um to identify any of our non-negotiables um in order for the Boe to support the building options um that are on the list um that's kind of the the oh go ahead can you just repeat that third one I'm right sure absolutely um identify any

077non-negotiables um on the benchmarking list that would be an absolute requirement for us to support a building option um that was the ask that came from the committee um I will say that I um I I have trouble with the idea of ranking in priorities when you look at the um the benchmarking criteria oh sorry there something El okay um I'm I'm happy to kind of Identify some non-negotiables but um there are so many valuable things in the list that I I personally don't know that I would feel comfortable ranking them in a you know one to one to 20 viewer or not but um happy to hear what others are feeling um very quickly um in your materials from Cheryl is the there's a slide titled um benchmarking slide so that is the the

078benchmarks that Alyssa is referring to so if everybody wants to pull that up and have it available to them it is there also in the materials is the um governance document if if anybody needed amendment to ref familiarize themselves with what we've asked them to do yeah go ahead can I make a reques can we divide up sort of the ranking non-negotiable slide work and the portable conversation cuz those look like two distinct conversations and I think it might be helpful for a little bit of background on the Portables because we have a variety of Portables and a variety of different ages of Portables that are doing a variety of different things which have a variety different impacts on different schools and so I I I know this is in the materials and you can

079go to the building website um which is available on the board's website and you should do that to get every piece of information that we have available to the public which is a lot of information but it would be really helpful for me to do those conversations separately and then have a little back on Portables just so that I know where I should start opining sure I think that's totally reasonable I will say just as a note the Portables are on that the criteria so um we'll just make a note to ourselves that when it comes to addressing the temporary classrooms um under facility needs we'll just have that okay um okay so I think we have two I feel like we might have two distinct app and I hear what Alyssa is saying she's

080not necessarily comfortable um personally ranking the the benchmarking elements there um I think in my mind it feels a little bit separate from non-negotiables um I I I I think non-negotiables are the things we can't live without so that's not a ranking that's a yes we we insist on having these these items ranking to me is this would this would be nice and yeah one through five right yeah um so I I'm not opposed to what you're saying by any stretch I also of course worry like I mentioned last week I worry about us putting the thumb too much on the needle of this program but at the same time um I want to provide the committee with enough guidance that they can um and feedback that they can get get to a solution we

081have to get to a solution we can't keep spinning our wheels and um while you know the longer we do that the more our kids are without so um I would like to be able to at least provide some at least the non-negotiables for us is that's where I'm at yeah that makes sense I'm not willing to rank non-negotiables I think is what you're saying which is I'm agree with like ranking the the wants or needs I think we could do that but I think you're going to get if you just look at the board members seven different answers if you add the students make that nine and if we ask Administration I think Ray is gonna go along with Diane to be honest with you but but you're gonna you're GNA get you might

082you're I'm not sure that's going to be clarifying if you want personal opinions as opposed to if you're asking for us to deliberate and rank them that's a workshop not a board meeting right we'd be here all night for sure um okay well why don't we start with non-negotiables and kind of work our way and just um uh so that we can kind of get our get our arms around that um is there anything that anybody has right off the bat that's non-negotiable for them that we can discuss about we attack it this way how do let's do different categories there's three categories on the slides why don't we go category by category sure we can do that so we can start with programming needs so when you said non-negotiable for them like what do

083you mean by that like are we right now just going through these are things this next building should have yes things that we absolutely as a Bo as a board feel that um must be included in the project for us to support it for us to support yeah so if somebody has one that's a non-negotiable to them um then we can discuss it as a group and if we this is a non I should have said this in the beginning this is a non-action item we're not going to vote on this but if is as long as we've got the consensus I feel comfortable sending it forward to the to Charlie and letting him know this is where the board's it's more discussion based exactly y exactly Mitch so we're not we're not drawing lines

084on the yet no all right no all right so on that note is there anything under programming needs that is a non-negotiable and of course I would love to hear from the both of you as well I would definitely say like that separate gym and cafeteria when I recently went to like the three schools um and spoke with the building administrators and different teachers there um that's a huge limiting factor to how they can walk out their day what programs they can provide for kids for like gym and let's say lunch as well that sounded like that's going to be a huge like step forward and leave the building the room to grow in the future too if it ever did need to um I was really compelled last week about the um the discussion

085we had around um after school before and after school care um I um I've always been a believer that there needs to be separate gym and cafeteria space for your essentially aligned with what you're saying Mitchell um but the fact that um we don't have enough space right now we have a long waiting list of kids and on the horizon will we or will we not get prek I don't um I'm not interested in us um you know uh making something small so small in the beginning that five years from now we have to revisit it again already right so um I would support that being a non-negotiable I also support that as a non-negotiable it's a huge limiting factor in all three of our primary schools it limits the time our children can have

086lunch how specials are organized and it creates a scheduling nightmare for kids and then the after CARE program I think um after care is a huge need for every Community was having this conversation earlier with a fellow board member about how important after care is I my family depends on after care and um to the extent that we can make sure that our our building meets our needs of our families we need to do that and if this is this has been one of the repeating themes that's severely limited programming during the school day and after the school day um I do agree that um a separate gym and cafeteria is pretty imperative as as we've seen come up in in multiple situations um I think that especially after our workshop last last week I

087think uh room for future expansion um you know whether that be that um even just the way that Wentworth is designed where they put it in a literal physical location where the building is built so that it can be expanded upon when needed um I do have worries that we will build something that is small and we will need to expand upon it Scarboro seems to be growing um but I do think in order to benefit future Scarboro um citizens and students I think that um keeping our eye on the future as well and being able to build something that can expand in the future um is very important yeah I think to Alyssa's point that room for future expansion is really critical um and that example of you know when Wentworth was built they

088overbuilt the core spaces um and identified um space on the footprint where additional classrooms could be built in the future that the course spaces would be able to absorb that is really important right because if we are building the school for what we need it to be in three years and then we are not um having a contingency plan for future growth or or just right sizing our core spaces um we're going to find ourselves in a difficult situation um which is the situation that quite frankly our primary schools are in currently right because we do not have adequate course spaces even for the students that we are serving at the current time I keep I keep in my head running through the you know I I think I I think I pretty much indicated

089last week I would love a pre program I don't know that it's in the cards right now with due to the annual ongoing costs but I'm also interested in slowly rolling out more classes so I wonder um where I alluded last week is can we while we have construction Crews on site can we go ahead and build the classrooms now knowing they're going to be left empty I think the current trouble that the sbac is running up into that is that we're now in a place where we need to reduce costs um when we when we built out with everything that kind of could be beautiful and wonderful in these we were way over budget and now we're looking for places to bring it back down to a place where the community can can support

090and and afford to to put up new buildings um I I think it would be a hard sell I I agree I would love to have you know if if went wereth isn't at Max and still all the space is being used clearly the educational situation has changed in the past 10 years we're not we don't have dead space in in wedworth we are utilizing every inch of it so you know clearly um you know things will change I would I would love to but it it would be hard to to add classrooms that just aren't being used but I can certainly provide that feedback that um that space would end up being used I'm going to take it in a different direction um I value prek and I I would I would like Scarboro

091to offer prek beyond what we're currently offering um which is severely limited that being said if there's a place we're going to compromise which is what this is because I would like to have space for PK right now um this is a place I can do it if this is a future need there are other ways to meet this need there will be there will be likely there may be other facilities available depending on which options we go with um there may be you know we should be able to expand in the future but if we have to cut a cost I would cut the cost of a potential future project over a current dedicated need and that's not an easy decision I believe in prek the children went through prek every child should have

092the opportunity to attend a quality preschool education their family chooses that for them and I think that you know I I I don't think that Scarboro has invested in prek the way that many of the towns around us has found a way to do that and I think that's a problem but if you're asking me where to cut costs the a place where I can cut costs is a future desired outcome over a current identified need can you help me understand last week um I think you said something Alyssa that the future or maybe Charlie said it the future expansion is on the table for cutting expenses and I'm trying to understand that in my head because isn't future expansion just land like an extra like a piece of land that won't be developed so

093I think it's kind of a concept more than anything so room for future expansion a lot of it's talking about kind of like what Diane was saying build the core spaces in a way where you can grow because it's really hard to add onto a gym it's really hard to add on to um a Auditorium cafeteria Etc um so it it kind of envelops envelopes that as well as where on this footprint where we would we put more classrooms where on this footprint would we be able to add how are we positioning this so that you know there's not nowhere to add but just like with Wentworth we can put more classrooms on the end that building was built in a way that um kind of with the future in mind so kind of it's

094both of them being put into one s so it's more that gym and the lunchroom being sized to what the expansion can hold that's how Wentworth was built yes and then the other pieces is like if you recall um you know even thinking about the previous referendum and the schematics that were shared like uh The Architects generally do that with like dotted lines on the footprint and what they do is they make sure that there are no utilities um nothing placed on that future piece of land within the footprint that is being designated for future expansion right because if we think about the middle school right now as an example you know people have said why don't you just build a connector between the six grade portable in the main building and that is not

095possible to do because all the utilities are under that driveway uh between the school itself and the portable right as you do future planning and plan for future expansion um you are deliberate in ensuring that there is nothing um on that parcel of land that is going to impact the ability to do that in the future um to take it in a somewhat different direction um being on the committee I do um there's been a lot of talks about our playground and field space aligning to the doe standards um I'd really like to hear people's thoughts on this with our three primary schools we're really tight on space and land in the current um structures and some of the addition locations and how the buildout would be we would lose outdoor space um and I

096have concerns about that you I love kids being outside having room to be there having room to to play and everything so I'd really love to hear the bo you know this board's impression upon that and um where we where we feel it falls on a level of importance I have strong feelings extremely strong feelings about that although does Jenna did you read did you ra your oh sorry Jen has your hand oh Jenna do you want to go ahead sure um I feel pretty strongly about having adequate space for the kids to play around in the playground um generally speaking Early Childhood the playground is one of the areas where they have the most unstructured times um this is where they actually do a lot of their learning as well with just mimicking behaviors

097throughout the day of what's happening with their families or what happening what's happening in school um this is their unstructured time of of play and learning and I think it's extremely important for them to have that space and if it's overcrowded if they don't have enough equipment to go around it becomes an issue and it it also becomes an issue where you're going to have a lot more staff um policing the behaviors out there too so um I think it's it's really important that they have room to play yeah among other things are you finishing I don't want to cut you off yep I'm good I'm headset against any decrease in the size of the primary school playgrounds currently they're inadequate right now as we speak they're they do not meet our students needs I

098have two kids who just went through two of those schools and I can't wait to get the special head Services um I have two kids that went to to two primary schools those playgrounds do not meet our students needs right now taking any playground space from the current primary schools is a non-starter for me and I will never get behind anything that does that we are investing in outdoor learning education initiatives right now we just got a big Grant to do that that's a direction that education is moving and it's a healthy direction for all of our students we talk about mental health getting outside increasing physical education every it touches behavioral issues are often resolved with better use of outdoor time and and that there's so many areas of student development and growth for

099their basic needs that are dependent on adequate outdoor time Recreation having break adding in additional like recess times is a huge issue so making their recess time less valuable and more difficult and impeding their ability to get adequate rest from studies during the day particularly at that young age is an absolute non-starter for me um and I'm not interested in um I agree it feels weird right when we have this big Grant with this Molly Grant we've received where we're really valuing and and indicating that we value outdoor education to then say well what about at the lower grades where they really need movement breaks and opportunities to play well they are going to play in the driveway up front where the buses drive right um so it it it feels like we're a little

100disjointed for sure so I would I would support that as a non-negotiable that's also I mean one of the things that we hear a lot about is there's not enough field in gym space and so I I agree cutting it it just feels shortsighted like uh without without a contingency plan um it's it's sort of like we we've almost hit every one of these on here and so it sounds like every one of them pretty much is a non-starter for us if it's eliminated um just want everybody to keep all of that mind when we're we're moving forward this is the same stuff that the committee is grappling with um in terms of managing these projects I have three down I so far um I have separate gym and cafeteria supports prek immediate or future

101expansion playground field areas aligned to doe standards I think the trouble that I have when I look at this list is that everything feels so important yeah I mean there there's outdoor outdoor space is imperative like I I wish we could be outside so often but then I also value learning in the library and I want to see an appropriately sized Library where our our kids can go and and learn and kind of there's so many um on here and you know I want to the benefits of the separate gym and cafeteria are endless between supporting our families with after school care but supporting our our staff and students and not turning over a gymatorium a bunch of times day you know it's challenging and you know we feel that in in espc all the

102time and that's how the the these are the really challenging conversations that we're having like I can talk a little about that I mean I'm not sure how we could responsibly cut an appropriately sized Library like I'm I'm looking at this list of like like I hear that this is hard work I understand that but like we can't have a school without a library that can meet the needs of the students like that's a ridiculous item to ask me to rank that's just not it's you have to have space that's appropriate for the school or why are you building it like it's it's it's it's a ridiculous question in some ways I'm happy to go through it um special services at each school um my child can't go to my neighborhood school because her special

103needs cannot be met there do you want to know what it's like to pick up two children at two primary schools at the same time that are 15 minutes apart you cannot do it as one person that means I have to hire somebody to pick up my child across town every day and that's a cost I incur because the school cannot meet the needs of my child at my neighborhood school so like not having you want to bust all the kids we want to find a basement somewhere and put them in there we tried that in the 70s but that's what that question is is speaking to you're going to put you're going to concentrate special ed services in one location and then just hide all the kids that have special needs and throw them

104in a corner and ignore them because it's inconvenient that they need extra space and they need extra services and their behavior is sometimes harder to manage and that requires space when a child is not in control of their body because of their needs that does require extra space to keep everybody else safe staff and students you have to have a place to put the other students and staff and you have to have a place for that child to be managed and we may not like that children are not always able to control their bodies due to their special needs but we have that is a reality that our Ed techs and our special ed teachers deal with every single day multiple times a day and they have to be able to manage it safely so

105if we're going to build schools that are not going to meet the federally mandated requirements that we have for our students and you're going to ask me to rank that I I will fight you on that every time it's not fair it is not fair that my children are not able to go to the same school at the same time how many other siblings in this District are separated and just think about how that feels for a family I was Furious when I found out I love my Children's Schools the education they're getting and have gotten at primary schools have been topnotch I have no qualms whatsoever about how they've been treated here um they the special ed services are absolutely phenomenal but the fact that my children had to be separated to receive those

106Services is absolutely infu fiating and it's due entirely to the neglect of this community of this school system for the last 25 years when they first identified the space needs in those primary schools I actually couldn't agree more and um I'm kind of frequently reminding people of the inequality of that there shouldn't be students who have to be separated from siblings parents who have to go through that undue stress the you know everything that you just listed out um this is actually one of my personal non-negotiables is that um every service should be available to every student with the same opportunities um and currently that's not the structure we have so I um I would agree that I would put that on my list of non-negotiables and that's sort of where we we run into

107without you know we're trying to slice off little pieces like like extra space because we don't know what the future holds and so then you start slicing into other areas um you know looking at the dedicated art music spaces we know how important those are to overall education um and also that without having those dedicated spaces what happens is you have to take somebody on a you know music on a cart on a cart and you get to go in you get to displace everything and the classroom you're losing education minutes actually um a valuable education time that are uh you know well well studied well understood so that's what that's what I was kind of saying like all of these things ranking them is is really impossible you have to have special services and

108you know just as important as gifted and talented and um well I think what I'm hearing is all of the program needs are really non-negotiables for us yeah I yeah the schools have to meet the programming needs of our students I'm not willing to compromise or support a project that does not meet the needs of our students then what's the point right now we have things that don't meet the needs of our students why spend $100 million do on something that's not going to meet the needs of our students and I think that's been some of the conversation um as of late within the building committee because I think it's a very diverse group um and as such there's some people who are very in tune to the price tag um there are other people

109on the committee who are reminding uh the team that um there will probably be as many citizens in this community that might not support the least expensive project if it only addresses half of the needs right and so scarbro has an opportunity to um write the ship here and you know I've heard the narrative that the community is only interested in doing this one time um and not continuing to go back to the well and so I I think it uh is a very challenging conversation for sure yeah and I think a lot of the like frustrations everyone's voicing is why I didn't feel comfortable taking this list and saying here's our 1 to 20 or here's our 1 to 15 because there's no way I prep prepping for this meeting I I just stared

110at the list and I was like there's no way I can prior you know when when there's something like Safety and Security it's how do you how do you decide which one is the most safe or the most secure so I I do prefer coming at it from the space of non-negotiable rather than you know and we talked about that but again I I just this list doesn't contain many things that I feel comfortable saying that the Scarboro students should go without um I'm going to go out on a Lim and suggest that Safety and Security might also be one where we find that there's no um non-negotiables I have um my biggest issue has all along been the sixth grade access so I will not com that is my hard Line in the Sand

111I will not compromise on that can you clarify do you mean um the removal of the portable use yes that they should not be walking from a separate building out in the open multiple times a day to the main building to access their classrooms period end of story for me it's dangerous and I know there was um I brought up the long range facility planning meeting minutes from September where we did some discussion on the review I know there was a quick ask at the beginning of this um that sixth grade portable is at the limit for its electrical service All Plumbing fixtures are aged and there is no local shut off and overall not enough bathroom um for the capacity in that portable they have one right correct they have one one for each

112well there is one um yeah there is uh one the girls bathroom I believe has three toilets um and I believe the boys's bathroom may have two toilets and two urinals but that is um to meet the needs of a student body of 240 students yes so and one St as well right one staff and one single staff bathroom so you know if you have a break time I'm not sure how students would be using the bathroom all at the same time so that's just to support that I agree I think our our sixth grade portable problem is needs to be addressed yeah and I feel just as strongly about the secure front entry as well let's cut the emergency access because that's legal I mean it's it's these aren't even legal like we legally

113have to be able to get a fire truck to the schools like that's not that's not something that we can rank that's something that you can't get a building permit without so like you want me to rank it put that at the bottom I mean like you can't build a building without sufficient space for emergency that's not something you rank that's not something you even ask if it's negotiable it's legal it's illegal to build a building without this so I'm not ranking it well that's I mean I'm looking at the list and I'm like are there any things here that you know we're asking for extra or for more like when I look at sufficient number of student bathrooms I mean we're not it's not like we're asking for okay the the game room and

114the sauna and uh you know I don't see that on the list I mean how do we make I I mean I can't think of anything that um you know maybe I could say all right maybe the uh parent drop off sep area we could maybe do without something like that you know all right that's fine um I I mean and I and I I don't know if anything they say okay we got to get rid of this we you know what hey we're we're not going to have big enough kitchens so every kid in class is going to have to help make lunch because there's room there but not in the kitchen and everybody gets a brown bag I don't I mean it doesn't make any sense and I don't know if we're going

115to get behind any thing that comes back and doesn't address all of the issues that we have for you know not just today but I'm not saying we have to project out forever but we have to make sure that what happened at the middle school didn't happen what I mean I mean I guess we can sit here and go round and round and round and and and say oh well this and this and this but at the end of the day we're not asking for anything more than we need so if people don't like the fact that it's going to cost more and we should have done it 10 years ago 15 years ago and we can't go in our way we back machine because we don't have one so we're stuck with what we

116have and and we're going to have to figure out a way to make it work but we're going to do it the right way I mean I hope because I can't support anything that if at the end of the day if there's one port left in town then we've done something wrong and we we can't do that I think the one um I think that's a all of your points are well taken John there's nothing in here there's no fluff there's no gold padded anything in here um this is going to be an unpopular opinion I'm going to throw it out because it's a thought exercise um our current classroom ratios for this grade these grades are 16 yes 16 students 16 to 20 is the range and we have you know we currently have

117K2 classes that are at that are at the top of the range yeah what what are your thoughts on moving that up a little what if we made it 18 to 20 what if we played with that number a little bit I don't know what it's going to get us in the way of money on a project but might it buy us something it might be non-negotiable though like similar to the I also just have a hard time um you know there the students that are coming you know there's so many needs at at this point are you know incoming classes um you know data is showing a significant amount of needs each year and I have concerns with overloading classrooms and making sure that we're not impacting so so we certainly want to have

118an environment where can provide the education necessary but I don't want to start making compromises with student ratios or or Staffing ratios and things like that that degrade the education that we're able to provide or the the our staff being able to feel like they have what they need to do their job um so certainly a lot of things of you know needs come with edex and support and you know we're going to meet the students needs absolutely but I I would be very weary of increasing our ratios to potenti po um have impacts on the education I also think that uh the conversation about what to do about class ratios is dependent upon what proposals move forward uh because there are you know among the proposals to move forward are you know to maintain

119uh some of the classroom spaces at our current primary schools which you know I believe the board is aware are under ized as it relates to state standards and so you know if if we are already starting with a room that is uh has less space than we would expect a modern classroom to be built with and then we decide to make an amendment to increase class size within those undersized spaces then you're kind of creating a double deficit right if we were moving to um a proposal where class sizes were more aligned to current standards you know I think that potentially could be a different conversation and that has been a discussion a frequent discussion in the esac meetings of you know is there an opportunity to not right siize the classrooms so doe

120current standards is a kindergarten classroom to be a thousand square feet and or aren't there so do we not right siiz do we leave our kindergarten classrooms functioning as they are and then we put on additions that um will carry the cost but we don't do the some of the major Renovations that have been identified in order to meet the doe current standards has there been any discussion um among the committee about meeting all of these needs on the table potentially I I can't recall the costs with the with the Unified School understanding that the annual costs are going to go down a Consolidated School whatever we're calling it yeah so that you're giving one to get right like this might be a little bit higher but these costs go down so at the end

121of the day maybe our ask annually isn't as much yeah I mean we have not uh provided um uh approximate operational costs for all of the proposals at this point because quite honestly there are so many proposals and they are morphing um week to week right as people ask questions and say can you show us this can you show us that and so our commitment um from the district has been that we are will be in a better position to provide approximations to operational costs once the committee um you know is solidified around two distinct proposals right because the time effort and energy that needs to go into um doing those operational cost is nothing to Blink at um and quite honestly I have said to the committee multiple times if you are interested in

122getting an idea around operational costs please go back to the business case that was presented um in 2023 before the last referendum because I think um although you might say that those numbers might be different um in 2025 um I I think that they definitely highlight um what is the cost to run smaller schools versus the cost to run um a more significant larger modern day school and and to that that point I think it is important to stress here that these are they're not stagnant options they're they're kind of Ever Changing last week you know committee members came forth and said what if we merge a andb and I don't think it would be fair to look at the district and say okay now now look at yours again and and re now we're

123merging these to we're changing this we're altering that how would that imp so I think we're still in such a place of fluid options and changes that um asking for that level of detail at this point um I think has too many moving parts and runs the risk of putting numbers out there that wouldn't be reflective of where you know in such a fluid State we end up I hear that and I'm I'm not asking for for numbers with fluid projects that doesn't make sense but is there a recognition among the committee when you're op when you're looking at projects that one school cost less to operate than four schools and three schools Lo Cost Less to operate than four schools and if so why not that's what if you want me to show up

124and make public comment at your meeting and ask I'd be happy to do that but ignoring the reality that we pass a budget every single year with operating costs that continue to Skyrocket and not understanding that four buildings cost more than one building is a math problem that even I can do I don't math in public I would strongly encourage all board members to come to our our um committee meetings and provide um public comment um I I think there has been light discussion around that I don't think that it is an often stressed Point um I think that there is a lot of um stress on the um in the committee about how the Consolidated School was not supported last time um and and we're starting to kind of have more of those conversation

125what drove that decision um but um I think there's a lot that goes into the the conversation I guess is the only way I can say it add anything I think I think the only thing that I can add to that is I I I do think that people it's maybe a little bit harder for somebody who's is involved in the those kinds of conversations on every year like we we talk about this every year um it may not be as obvious and I think so Alissa in particular we we it's brought up frequently uh regarding the the um uh operation costs um I do think that there is that difficult conversation as um as you as like whoever mentioned that um it failed last time and you know there's been a lot of uh

126of back and forth with that like particularly what you just said John is that we we you know it failed but failed for X number of reasons and we have some data on that um the number one thing was cost and so there it the one of the proposals is a Consolidated School it is much lower than the last cost um and it's also smaller in scope um it's a k to2 right it's K to2 and then an addition at the middle school that may be uh a different conversation which option letter is that I I can't remember I'm glad you have that it is d right option D and it's actually a new K to3 oh it is a k to3 option D oh God I can't see they're very fluid yeah even even

127I can't keep this tree without looking at it so yes the option would be a um option D K to three and then Wentworth becomes four to six and then Middle School becomes 7 to8 and how much is option D running do you have that I think it I mean I think the starter the starting one was like 1:30 right with with the middle school with some middle middle school renovation and and nothing at ww worth if you give me just a moment I'll um call up our last thank you um presentation from Harman feel free to talk about other things if that school's built as a k through K to3 school would there be that space for prek in the future or is there I know it's early in the process to check in

128and see where that would be but would there be that depending on the proposal or would they use a previous building that we used to use for K through2 as a prek that's part of the discussion so I think that's part of the discussion but it's also very important especially if public are rewatching this to know that despite being current schools the schools don't own the buildings it's the town that owns the buildings so if the schools cease to be schools because they're built or closed for any any reason there's other proposals that are you know potentially Closing one of the elementary schools to build a different larger one um but still having three Etc um the the building itself goes back to the town so it would it would need to be addressed by

129the town um our plan at the last referendum was to ask the town for one of those buildings for use for prek Center so if this committee um coales around a Consolidated School option I I I feel confident saying that something this board would consider doing the same thing again which would be a request to the town to maintain one of the buildings for prek can you remind me as well in the public as well which Solutions were already voted are already off the table oh I'm so sorry yes absolutely it's F and e f was a new K2 Community School um it was K2 Wentworth would become 36 and middle school would stay 78 the other one that was eliminated would have would be having K to 5 to schools Wentworth would be um

130made into a k to five and then again the the primary schools um would all the current neighborhood three schools that exist would be closed and um moved into a k to 5 school as well and the Middle School um would additionally be or would continue to be 6 to8 with an addition yes the middle school would remain K to8 and receive Renovations and in addition the Portables would have been removed to address Safety and Security and accommodate the sixth grades um and um the renovation and additions would also address the missing K to8 program spaces um the 2 k to5 school was hotly contended and was only voted down um in a uh yes to eliminate the option 10 and a no to eliminate the option of nine now what were the big sticking

131points for that one to be voted down cuz that was one I personally was like oh this might be interesting to see where this goes but I know that was just H well there was some discussion that it would be possibly cost prohibitive um you know there were elements of it that may have been able to have been morphed um but ultimately I think um you know it was sort of a new and shocking thing I I I don't know that the committee um I think it was like there's seven options in front of us we need to start narrowing down um that was one of one of the higher cost items um that being one of the things I mean really that was sort of like the major so pretty much the cost of

132it was the big well yeah there was sort of a lot of moving Parts with that one um that and um we would have needed to cut the middle school work in order to get it into budget I'm sorry if you did say that and I was distracted um Shannon I just don't want to leave you hanging um I'm kind of quickly reviewing the ASC slides um and having trouble coming up with the exact number and don't want to be quoted incorrectly so um I'm happy to get back to you on the option the current option cost of D but um oh perfect from the S can you turn your mic [Music] on yeah this is a very big slide it looks like if you start I have um oh page oh boy so if

133you're looking for the overall cost of of option D which uh is the option that Alyssa was talking about um that is p 123 uh slide 123 of 157 but again you know I think uh this is a great slide deck for all of you to you know digest at your leisure um because it is very robust um Charlie has his hand I'm just you could permission to talk oh I'm sorry Charlie do you have permission to talk if you want to go ahead oh I was I was just gonna um uh address the question about why the those two options were were eliminated but uh I think Jullian and Melissa covered it so oh perfect thank you but but happy to help with with any of these other questions I I had to drop

134off about Midway through this conversation so I've just got back on a couple of minutes ago so um but but if if it's all right with you I I can I can answer some of these questions as they come sure of course spoiler alert we're not um we haven't taken anything off the list yet okay for the benchmarks the problem we're having I don't know if you heard this part of the conversation but the problem we're having is that all of these things there's nothing in here that's fluff or added or um the best you know the the best the best the things that we hear we're not asking for as John put it saas and you know game rooms we're we're asking for the things that have legitimate needs attached to them um so

135it's hard to say that it's it's hard to say that any of these things are um worthy of being cut which I'm sure you your committee is having the same conversation or similar conversation yeah and and if I may I I don't necessarily think you know you guys need to need to deliberate on you know what's cutable rather you know as we start to rack and stack these in the next two weeks the the the five remaining options um and potentially the the ab hybrid option that that we're looking at now too um just just simply understanding what are the most important pieces of these of the of the benchmarking you know um I I I dropped off around the you guys were kind of going through the imperatives um or the non-negotiables as you

136stated it you know um and I heard some of that that that's really helpful to us and then you know if we can just sort of have some understanding of um you know none of these are none of these are not important and none of these should should not be included but what are the what are the absolute most important ones because that's going to help us determine you know not only if we have to make scope reductions but also how we select you know the best fit that meets the meets the most important needs the best and I think that's the trouble we were up against everything go ahead yeah so Charlie this is fr tar opinion um I'm not on your esbat committee which is something you should be thankful for um because

137about what I'm about to say um we are not ranking things that are legally required a number of these options are legally mandated we're not going to rank things about whether we're going to have an inadequate library in a building you know I think the only thing that I was willing to give up on these lists was a future prek because I'm not I am willing to sacrifice future wants and desires for current programmatic needs that's what I said earlier and I stand by that but like these are not things I can rank I can't rank if we can have enough student bathrooms I cannot rank if we have enough staff bathrooms I cannot rank if we have emergency egress to the building we can't get a permit without that so like I am frustrated

138not with you specifically a little bit with the committee as a whole because every time I hear about a an option being cut I hear about a new option in morphine it's March I know you feel the time is ticking but I'm ready for an answer and yes it's hard to fit everything we need into the budget that was arbitrarily placed in this government document but that's where we're at and you need to figure out a way to meet all these needs these are programmatic basic needs again you can cut the saunas the steam rooms you can cut the zipline out of the school you cannot cut whether we have emergency access you cannot cut whether our entrances are safe you cannot cut whether we can meet our special ed needs at our schools um

139and if you we don't know if you dropped off but I would like you to listen to my diet tribe on meeting special at needs at schools instead of busting our special ed needs to one school to fit their needs or moving them around arbit because we we need to meet the space needs in the schools because we've shifted the special ed classrooms around three or four times in the last decade and that is really difficult for that population so yes I'm frustrated it's not directed to you personally this is why you're glad I'm not on your committee but I am not ranking or giving you prioritization on legally mandated things I'm not compromising the size of libraries so they're inadequate the day we open I'm not I'm not going to compromise on the playground

140or field space for the doe so you can shove another couple classrooms and we no longer have socer available for our youngest students to run around those are not questions about what are ranking choices and things things that we would like to have almost everything on this list is an absolute basic minimum mandatory in whatever solution that you come up with and I understand that we've tasked you with something difficult as I took place with this process for a number of years of my life now um so I hear you that it's difficult but this is not a list that we can Rank and if so I rank at the bottom of the list attic with erress because you can't get a damn building permit unless you get everything else in that building first yeah

141I I appreciate that and I appreciate your passion um I i' I'd ask you to direct that to the voters right we're trying to hit a budget that was was given to us you know by by the by the the survey respondents and the and and the community and so um that's why we're we're in the position we're in of trying to to find Opportunities to reduce scope um I think though what you've just stated is really useful to us right if these are legal mandates then they're non-negotiables and mark them as such that's that's what I've asked you to do and I think that you're you're pointing those out I I don't think everything on that benchmarking is a legal mandate frankly I'm not sure which ones are and which ones aren't so if

142you you know can can identify those for us that's incredibly helpful to us to understand you know that these These are these are the non-negotiables and they must be included in in the in the chosen solution I think my problem is for me non-negotiables are Safety and Security and meeting our programming needs those are our requirements um and when I say meeting our programming needs I I mean making sure that there's adequate space making sure we have room for all of our students um making sure that our special service are covered as as they are required to be and when you when when you blanket it in such general terms all of these fall in there right and so I'm trying to find things here and there that I can pick out um like John

143I could probably say Okay a separate parent Bus drop off you know perhaps um that's one we can drop to the bottom because maybe we can really do a educational push for kids to ride the bus again or maybe we you know but it feels like like we're grasping at straws I guess is what I'm you know I'm trying to like find a little thing here and there that's going to shave shave a little bit of money which is why I was getting at I hope the committee is thinking and to Diane's Point using the the the costs of um that were outlined in the last proposal but really kind of com looking at this is the cost of construction and yes it might be a little bit high but what are we going to

144save in our annual cost if we have Bri siiz cafeterias at all of our schools we no longer have to hire someone to drive meals all over the district for example that gets us R gets rid of a bus or a van that gets rid of a um staff member in that position we no longer paying gas Insurance all the things right so I really really hope that the committee is looking at this is the construction cost and yes we'll be paying for it for a long time but we can also there's a give to get there right and that give to get is the annual cost that we're saving and I I hope that's being balanced and I don't want you to think that we all agree that you can separate the Bus Loop

145and the drop off and I'll tell you why because the traffic situation at all of our schools is is in is an actual nightmare that takes you know the better part of 30 minutes to get through and the safety of those students getting on that and off that bus while parents are careening through the parking lot trying to get to work is something that is is just like sets up a really difficult situation um you know walking past the Bus Loop from blueo from the school into the parking lot is sometimes a game of Frogger and like that's not something that we need to set up our students for so again I I know I'm harsh at times and critical I've been told um and I agree with that assessment but like these are not

146I am willing to support a building that our community can get behind but I'm not willing to put my name or my support behind a solution that doesn't meet our needs and that's just the reality and there's nothing on any of these lists that we can we can fudge a little bit I do understand construction costs and and stuff like that but like these are these are not areas you're going to save money so I don't know you know I don't know what other other tricks you've got but like shaving off any of these is is not optional so you know I'll do all due respect I I I disagree I don't have the benchmarking the benchmarking standards in front of me I apologize for that but there I know there's at least right Portables

147you could if you could tell us is it is it okay to maintain a handful of Portables if we must obviously we don't want to but um separate gym and cafeteria I heard the beginning of the conversation around that that's not a legal requirement is that but is that you know does the board consider that you know a non-negotiable those types of things are the things that we're looking for not to downsize the project to a school that's not a solution but to as I mentioned you know try to get to the best possible solution within the budget that that you know all the data indicates that the community will will support um you know that's that's the limiting factor and so you know we'll that's that's what we're working towards is to to present

148you guys at the end of this with a solution that solves for the most problems we have and that we think we'll pass at a referendum um and so you know that's that's what we're asking for the regarding the the we've heard that busing is getting more and more difficult so I think it would it's futur looking to ensure that we have those adequate spaces I I mean I I just think it would be so shortsighted to have to go back and try to retrofit that anywhere um I I just think it's it's IR responsible for a safety measure um adequate like Heating and Cooling I mean we saw today how um you know well maybe but you know in the event that kids were overheated like that could happen in any of those buildings

149because of the the or you know the the old systems in place um and you know our climate's getting hotter we're having more and more hotter days so I mean I just think you know we don't have to have the top of the line but we have to have something that is you know safe and efficient and work I me to add on to that Jillian I would you know um inform the board now that when you look through this slide deck that we've shared with you option A and option b which U propose rehabbing our current primary schools do not include insulating them that is an extra add-on cost it does not include cooling you know um putting any cooling systems in there that is an additional add-on cost which I think it's important

150to also call out that we did have a discussion during esac about um the way two of our buildings are are heated and cooled if we're talking about operation costs um and in efficiency Wentworth is heated heat and cooled by 11 heat pumps the middle school that was not built with it is over aund well over a hundred difficult to maintain not um Wentworth has a um work room that they can um maintain and manage those things so that if Todd and his crew need to do work on those they can do it without disrupting the students and it doesn't become kind of cruise throughout the schools so I think even you know what how's it worded improved Heating and Cooling efficiency I think if if we start to cut even things like that you

151start to own it more when you buy over a hundred heat pumps versus having it as a part of the build so even in the places where someone may look especially when they're are students that require Heating and Cooling well I mean everyone requires Heating in Maine let's talk about that but even cooling is required for some students so it's not an option it's not something that can be taken away on certain situations given the climate as it currently is um we're likely to get to a place where we're not allowed to have students in buildings if the heat gets if it gets hot enough and I'm talking about the those shoulder Seasons so the septembers and the Junes um and there are days that are getting hotter and hotter and there's a certain Threshold

152at which it would be unsafe to keep students in a classroom without access to cool-aid so again we have to have adequate heating and cooling systems we can't compromise on providing the basic needs to our students you know regarding what Charlie said about separate gym and cafeteria to me I I think that those are I definitely ideal but having the right size I mean if we were to keep the three elementary schools even having the right size uh without separating them becomes difficult uh again because adding on is is difficult I mean you I'm having a hard time articulating what I'm trying to say at this point but um I think the other kind of way that the um esac committee is is looking to potentially help with costs is to kind of offset some

153of them you know if we address this can we bump out so option C I'm looking at a note here other cost saving considerations do we defer all Middle School scope um and address it in years to come so there are um you know we're looking at a number of different ways you know are are there ways to address current needs now and put others towards you know later referendums or later choices are there you know what um I agree that I I feel personally that the sixth grade portable is not at a point of being an option anymore um so I I would not support a referendum that does not address that directly at this time um and is the cost to replace portable still upwards of a million dollars per portable I apologize

154I don't know that number it's for two but you if you do one you have to do the second so and the thing with Portables like I guess it's maybe we go ahead and talk about that right now the thing with Portables is that they're always meant to be a temporary solution they're not meant to be a port a permanent solution so I I guess if the question Charlie's asking us is are we okay to to use them like my personal answer would be yes but yes for a orary solution for those bubbles that W that come through the district right but what we're doing is we're using them um and then because we have to keep them we keep them right but they need replacement they need updates like it's I feel I feel

155almost like sometimes we're opening the window and throwing the money out right and I have a hard time wrapping my head around how are we going to how are we going to continue with the portable how how is that again comparing the operating ongoing cost with the construction cost and how can we do that like how can we have a solution where we know we all know that the current schools are heating the outside how can these Solutions not have not account for insulation and I just to put some dates to it so that we all understand um the Scarboro Middle School um modular were all added between 2000 and 2008 and the primary schools have been added um as early as 2001 and as late as 2020 so it is a growing growing and

156maintaining um and again I kind of referenced earlier those sixth grade Portables were at Max Capacity for electrical so like we are I guess for me if I have to rank something I'm going to tell you that I think safety is my um probably more important to me than programming needs because our parents trust us with their kids day in and day out and I would like to be able to look a parent in the eye and say yes we care about your child's safety and this is how we demonstrate that we care about your child's safety um and so if I rank that as my number one priority the sixth grade Portables have to go I just don't understand why we would maintain a temporary solution that we're going to have to expend millions

157of dollars on in the near future to maintain like that like the portable we are going to build a permanent solution for this problem right now for schools that are lasting upwards of 50 years why would we ignore a problem that has an expiration date that's ticking right now that we're at the best a quarter of the way through the lifespan of and at worst past the lifespan up in many instances so like do I mind do do I mind maintaining Portables if they fit a need right now no but not if we're avoiding a project that has to happen because you know what we're not going to do is pass enough another referendum in 10 years that's highly unlikely and so if we don't address it it's not going it's we then we're going

158to have to expend extraordinary amount of funds maintaining and replacing these Portables see and and for me I just I feel the Portables can be used during the construction process you know get get us through con conu that's really important we've got we if we're short of building a new building and not disrupting anything you know at some point these kids are going to get need to be somewhere while something's being built and renovated um but I just can't get behind a temporary solution um and especially with the age of ours it it's just too too much I think that there's some pretty good General consensus around making sure that the middle school is addressed here um I just I think it's important that we say loud and clear that that is not negotiable um

159well whether we address it through this project or whether we have to buy a whole new suite of Portables the Middle School Portables have to be addressed well I can give you an example like if you look at option D um which which uh supposes that we move the sixth grade to W Wentworth uh we would need to build core core we would need to build classroom space there the core spaces could absorb the addition um and and that uh to move the sixth grade to Wentworth comes at a cost of $9.5 million so to your question how much would it be to replace the Portables and build a new portable building right we're talking at least $6 million for that so you know in the scope of of overall costs and what you're get

160for your money um you know that that is just you know that's an example I just I I feel like um Portables they're just not they don't seem fiscally responsible when when we're in this process of needing to build and needing to you know house our kids in in a way that Portables just don't feel fiscally responsible especially you know maintaining them as permanent structures um well I'm not sure that this is super helpful Charlie um I think you um I think everybody here is pretty passionate probably as again a similar makeup to what you're seeing on your committee um it it feels if I I can imagine and I can appreciate that it feels like we're asking you to do a very big lift and a very it's a very hard ask and I

161I appreciate that tremendously um I I the I guess if we have final thoughts here that we want to share it sounds to me like Portables are non-negotiable does that does that feel right um it feels like Safety and Security is non-negotiable doeses that feel right to everybody um it feels like programming needs are non-negotiable um I think that also feels right to everybody um uh again I would ask you as a committee and I know it's hard um given that Diane says that the you know the district has committed to giving operational costs when you get to two but I would really really encourage the committee to use um the numbers from the from the last referendum and take a look at those operating numbers and see if you can make them work for

162these Solutions and really compare annual costs to construction cost with and see where you get is that does that feel like something that can be done um with the numbers that were from the last referendum can we man can they be manipulated to fit into these current I don't even think it's a matter of manipulating them I think it's a matter of looking at them because you know basically what they do is they provide a comparison of what is the cost of maintaining multiple schools of various sizes versus um having fewer schools right that are uh of a different vintage right because uh at at some point in time um you know it's kind of comparable to if you think about as a home owner do you choose to renovate your 50-year-old house um or

163do you choose a new build and and what are the reasons around why you might choose to do one or the other and I think there's a lot that can be learned that it doesn't necessarily carry numbers but I think the it sounds like the last referendum um did a lot of studies with bus studies and they did you know it it's custodial wise cheaper to maintain one one larger building to multiple small like there's we can't necessarily put specific numbers to it but at this point we can be looking at a lot of that the knowledge that was gained through a lot of that work and how we can apply it to these situations before we're at a place where we have two or one when when the district's ready to to really be

164diving into those options yeah and I almost wonder not that I want to volunteer anybody but um is is Dave still on your committee who was on finance last year I'm trying to remember the list yes he's a part of our leadership team yeah he um I um I wonder okay so let me just walk through my I'm thinking as I'm talking so you have in these solutions that are in front of you you have number of classrooms yes you have a known number of classro it's fluid but yes okay and we we can estimate we can estimate um what a teacher salary and benefits are we have those numbers with our contract it's in negotiations but yes yes we can we have a rough a rough number yeah yeah we don't we don't know

165we know maybe we can glean how many custodian what I'm really worried about like I'm not worried about getting into what electricity is going to cost and heating is going to cost and all the things I'm interested in looking at and drawing a number about Personnel Personnel is our biggest cost so um the reason I'm asking about Dave is because I I remember from um phase one he was really good with um spreadsheets and numbers and I wonder if it's a worth exercise to take the number of classrooms and do some back of the napkin math to come up with understanding it's a very rough estimate without any yeah information from the district just at least something I mean I I appreciate your idea Shannon but I would I would argue with you that it

166is not back of the napkin math and that a lot of what is on the table here is not just about classroom teachers we're talking about supports for students interventions right so again when you look across these five options plus another one that is you know uh being contemplated each one of those has a unique set of um expectations around what type of special ed programming will be offered at that location versus this location um how many intervention teachers do you need if you have this proposal or that proposal there is a lot of detail and my um my concern about doing the back of the napkin math is once you put a number out to the public that is the number that they are hearing and then as we drill down and say here

167are the two proposals that we are moving forward and drilling down to with a level of detail and we come out with a different set of operational numbers that is not going to sit well with some members in our community because they will say I heard you say on X date that it was this much money and so you know I I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud here or difficult I actually trying to make sure that the information that we are putting out to our public is an actual reflection of what we are asking them for and I don't feel Fair asking a Comm a Community member to do it without the support or backing of the district because I just don't think that anyone truly knows what it takes to

168run a school or a district unless you're truly doing it so I even though we can say a classroom should have a teacher who who's to say that they don't need an edtech and a you know etc etc without the support of the district I don't think we can come forward with a with even a proper back of the napkin you know and and just to piggyback on what Diane is saying we took a lot of heat for not putting um any numbers on that the last survey but that's exactly why I mean if we put a number of 113 million or 140 whatever on those projects uh and then that you know some got Whitted down and we come out with a completely different number the next time it just it's just not going

169to go over well and they're not honest numbers at this point because things are changing so much um I think it's I I I really do think it's important to have the most accurate numbers when we go out with them but I think people can figure out you know if we have three buildings and we have 12 kids that need Ed teexs you know if there's six at one and two at another you know I think you know that that's going to be more staff than if they were at one building and we can move people around in a more efficient way I mean that that is shown in those numbers from the last referendum yeah yeah all right well so and the the bottom line here is Portables portable safety programming and we get

170two minutes before 9:30 yeah I'm GNA move I'm GNA move on unless there's any final no so it's all necessary thank you yeah is there anybody wishing to make public comment about this item okay we have one person raising their hand um so what I'm going to do is um before I can you flip over so I can see who that is Ry oh thank you Debbie before I um get to you what I would like to do is um entertain a motion to extend our um our time we are coming up to 9:30 and if I give Debbie three minutes for public comment we'll be Beyond so um do I have a motion to extend beyond 9:30 business Beyond 9:30 so moved second any discussion uh can you call the vote please yes yes

171yes Miss Peterson yep yes yes yes yes Mr yes thank you very much all right Debbie um you are can we give her permission okay uh Debbie you have three minutes what I'm going to do is I'm going to start our timer and since you can't see it I'll just let you know when your three minutes is up if that's okay thanks Shannon uh debely Debbie Gates 423 blackpoint Road um I'm a newer resident I've lived in Scarboro with my husband for nine years um I'm not I'm 69 years old so I didn't raise my children in Scarboro but I did raise children um and I know you guys know this i' I've listened to every uh School building committee meeting uh starting with the first group and then the second group and I as

172a newer uh member had to learn what the demographics are of Scarboro and I know you all know this but we have a significant percent of seniors on fixed incomes and your wealthiest taxpayers are not voters because those are the people who own the summer seasonal homes and I just strongly encourage each of you as a school board member because for instance tonight was in the public I think for anyone on the school board to say I'm not going to support whatever the school committee comes up with you know because if they don't do this and if they don't do that and if they don't do this is really foolish because this school committee is very representative of the community in which we all live and you may not like it and I may not

173like it uh but that's the reality and you know saying things like oh a cafeteria and a gymnasium are mandated I mean it sounds foolish and I encourage you uh not to go there because it it it gets really negative and people don't like it thanks is there anyone else wishing to make public comment this evening all right seeing none um I'm going to move on to 14.0 continuing business 14.1 is the second reading of the 20125 2026 school calendar this is the calendar that we looked at last last meeting um there are no changes um we didn't get any feedback about this calendar just as a reminder it would bring us the last day of school would be the Friday the uh June 12th um any snow days would take us into the next

174week but on the J on June 17th would be our final day no matter what um that's uh three snow days after that we would go into asynchronous uh school days on any additional snow days which is the position we find ourselves in right now um if we have any more school school days that are snow days um they would be asynchronous learning days um with that I we didn't get any other additional comment on this calendar so if there's any questions I'm happy to take them but otherwise it's what you looked at last time all right are there any questions for fa anyone wishing to make public comment all right uh do I have a motion to approve the second reading of the 2025 2026 School calendar is presented I'll move second can we

175call the vote please thank you yes yes m l yes M Peterson yes Mr Rock yes yes yes yes yes all right thank you so much um agenda item 15.0 is adjournment if with no objections we will adjourn at 9:33 p.m. thank you so much and have a good evening