001Okay everyone. Welcome to College 101 night. It's 6:31 so we may have some people who roll in who are a little late, but this is cool so we want to start promptly. If any of your friends do come in late, encourage them to grab a packet on the way out. So today we're going to go over this short PowerPoint just to share some info information with everybody. Then we're going to play a game and our panel will come up and we'll have a town hall style question and answer. You will have an opportunity to ask some questions. And then additionally we're going to go out in the hallway where each school has tables set up. So if you have specific questions for any of the schools, you have an opportunity to ask them uh later
002on. So. All right, so our uh counseling department website is a great place for you to find a lot of information. We keep scholarships, we keep um other resources available. So for the just for the college planning process. So that's a great place to start. You can see this is what it looks like. There's links, all kinds of stuff on there where you can request a transcript. You can go and take a look at that when you have a chance. So when we think about college, when choosing a college, we want to think about finding the best fit. A lot of people wanted students especially we talked to, they want to know where their friends are going. They want to go to the same school they're going to, but we really want students to think
003about all of the factors. That includes location, majors, what social activities they have, what academics they offer. You'd be surprised at how many students pick a school and they don't have the the major they want. So making sure they understand that the academics are why they're there in the first place so extremely important. The cost of college and what their outcomes are. So looking at things like what is the university's graduation rate? What is their employment rate for for new graduates? That stuff is all available to families online. So that is one thing you can look at. Keep notes and this is you have something in your packet that looks similar to this, but you can keep notes on This is for going, sorry. You can keep notes on admissions requirements because they do vary
004greatly. So if you're thinking of applying to college outside of Michigan, this is something you want to consider. What are that What is that university's, what are that state's requirements? They may be different than what we expect from Michigan graduates. So it's important to research that ahead of time. ACT and SAT, are they test optional? Can you um Can you do you have to submit a test? Does your test score impact your scholarships? Size and location, staying in the state rule, the cost. There's lots of different things that we're going to go over in a little bit. Quality of the major and then do you want to go to a private school or public school? So size of institution. Um institution sizes are broken into four sizes. So small university which is under 3,000 students.
005A medium size university which is 3 to 10,000 students and then a large university so it's going to be like U of M where it's 10 to 20,000 students. And then very or maybe that's very large, I don't know. Very large university, they'll correct me. 20,000 or more students. So if you're someone who doesn't want to be in such a like in a school with so many with such a large population, you want to consider the size. If you've gone to smaller schools, if you like a smaller atmosphere, that's a very important thing to think about when you're picking universities. Location. So do you want to stay in Michigan? Do you want to be in a rural area? Do you want to be in a city? Do you want to go out of state? All
006things to add to your list. Remember, in-state and out-of-state tuition vary greatly. So, you want to think about that, and you also want to think about where you want to live. You're going to You might want to be networking for jobs in areas that you want to live. So, if you don't plan on staying in Michigan and you're looking outside of Michigan, consider cost, size, and um affordability. Okay, so this QR code here will take you to our scholarship page. This will not be the most up-to-date unless you're a senior currently. Um that scholarship page, we update it for all seniors. But, if you want to just bookmark it for later, we keep a running list all year starting in September and going to graduation of current scholarships available to students. So, we want you
007to think about comparing and contrast contrasting colleges based on annual tuition, available scholarships. Do they offer merit scholarships, which are awarded for GPA? Um how do they look at your test scores, and how do they look at your other achievements? So, if you're if you're athletic achievements, your sports achieve athletic achievements, anything like that, looking at the college in that way. And then program quality. So, is the program you're applying for accredited by the relevant professional organization? So, what that means is if you're going to college say for engineering or nursing or anything like along those lines, you want to make sure it's accredited >> [clears throat] >> by the organization. There are schools that have programs that are not accredited. So, it's very important that you are looking at that because you could leave
008your school and have a degree that maybe isn't the most useful to you. So, is the school accredited? Does it have a good reputation um within what you want to study? So, some schools may not have a great reputation in nursing, but they have a great reputation in education. So, what does that look like? Compare the programs. And then consider the institutions' resources like labs, technology, um and everything else Anything else that they could offer that will enrich your education. And then again, I said this earlier, but it is really important to look at career outcomes. So, are they producing students, graduates that are able to go out and get a job in their field of interest? All right, so when searching for colleges, it's important to note application deadlines. There's different types. So, early
009decision, early action, regular decision, and rolling admission. Um and then student activities, clubs, sports, groups. Most universities, especially Michigan, offer an array of things to do, so you shouldn't be bored at most most of the colleges we've spoken to. Um And then housing options. Can you have a roommate? Are you allowed to live off campus? Are there single dorms? Are they, you know, quads? Are there four or three people in a dorm? So, things to consider. This is just the different housing options. Um so, some students want the option to live off campus. They don't want to live on campus their first year. Um and so, and again, looking at the dorms is important. When you're applying So, ACT and SAT scores. Well, we've talked about this before. Some schools are still test optional. Some
010schools do factor in the scores for your scholarships, for your merit scholarships, and things like that. So, they are important to consider if you're considering submitting them for that. Um rigor in curriculum. So, class rank, extracurricular activities, including work and volunteering. A lot of students forget. Work counts as an extracurricular activity. So, if you're a student who doesn't have time for a sport or has to fit in work at some point, that does count. So, don't leave that off when you're talking about yourself. And then volunteering also counts. Student essay You're going to have to write essays when you apply to college. They're very important. Don't use ChatGPT. Write your own essay. Um each college kind of looks for things a little bit differently, so um we recommend we have college reps here come every
011fall from lots of different schools. So, if a school that you're interested in isn't represented here tonight, they probably will be in the fall. They're the people reading your college essay. So, it's always worth it to listen when they talk about what they're looking for in a college essay. Um awards and achievements. So, what have you achieved? Have you gotten I mean, we don't give perfect attendance awards in high school, but anything, you know, if you've got anything that you're proud of, any academic award, any award in the community that will help boost your resume, that's a good thing. Uh we counselors write recommendations for you. So, um and your school counselor will be writing one of your letters of recommendation when you apply to school through the common app. And so, it's important that
012you can think about that when you're applying and make sure that you connect with them maybe at some point. Just let them know, say hi. We also do a senior questionnaire. If you don't have time to meet with us, we will read that and use that to help um write your letter of recommendation. And then teacher recommendations. Connect with the teacher. Especially if if you're a sophomore in here. I don't know how many sophomores I have. Try your best to connect with the teacher. They are going to write you a letter of recommendation likely at some point. It's good if they know you. You can use a coach to There's lots of opportunities, but that's it. You want to build those relationships. Okay. So, it is suggested that you apply to one reach school. So,
013a reach school is um your GPA and your test scores fall below the 25th percentile of admitted students. So, it's less likely that you'll get in, but it's possible. So, that's your reach school. Your one match school is your test falls within the 25th to 75th percentile range of admitted students. So, this would be a great fit for you academically if you're in that middle range of who they admit. And then a safety school is where your test scores are above 75%. So, you have a stronger chance of admission. Now, you're probably thinking if it's test optional, how do we know? You can also look at like what their GPAs that they'll accept. So, what's what is the range of where do they where do their where do their accepting schools start? This is available
014in your packet. I'm not going to go through everything, but this is an example of what we generally see here as our senior timeline. A couple important things. October 1st of the year that you are graduating. So, if you're a junior and you're graduating in 2027, October 1st is when the FAFSA applications will open up. You have to fill out a FAFSA application even if you aren't planning on getting a student loan because that's what schools use for your to determine your um scholarship and your your financial package. So, that that's important to know. Um and then we host a paying for college night. Well, we don't host it, but we offer a luncheon learn. Um Oakland University hosts it. Um but you can log in and we'll post more information in um August. So,
015if you have questions about paying for college and the FAFSA, that's a really good opportunity. But again, all of this is in your packet um which you can so you can review it. Okay. Colleges change their minds. So, it's really important that um a changing grade, quitting a club or activity or sports, any disciplinary actions. If you've dropped classes, we have for a lot of universities, we have to submit a second semester transcript. So, if you change class first semester through your senior year to second, sometimes these things can affect your acceptance. So, make sure you're paying close attention to what you do your senior year, and and just keep that in mind because colleges do change their mind. Okay, so before I move on, um I totally forgot to introduce myself. So, for those
016of you who don't know, I'm Mrs. Good or Amanda Goodwin. Um I'm a school counselor here, and then Mrs. Graves, Jamie Graves, is here. She's also a school counselor. Um and she's going to come up and play a game with some of the students, so Okay, so I need my students up front to volunteer to play my game with me that have a card. So, if you'll come up front, Yeah. >> I know this doesn't like This will help them and help you hear me if you watch this in the future. Okay. So, what we're going to be doing is we're going to be playing a college admissions sorting game here in a minute to go through all the factors that they take into account when they're looking at the applications. So, when you guys
017actually fill them out and turn them in, that they're not just looking at GPA. So, nine applicants they have left to choose from and they can only pick three of you. If colleges really only chose based on GPA and test scores, it'd be really easy. They'd just pick our top three and they'd be done. But it's really not that easy. So, that's why we're going to go through the game and I'll show you kind of some of the things they consider. Um before we do that, um we have a packet that we gave you guys. I was going to go through that really quick before I have you guys play. So, you guys know we gave you a lot of great information in this packet. When you get a chance, you don't have to do
018it right now. Um but there's a lot of planning and worksheets in here that I'll help you through campus visits, what you should be looking for when you visit a campus, um scholarship worksheet, determining your college fit, taking a look at that. Um It has financial aid checklist. It has what to do in each year, in your 11th grade year, your 12th grade year. So, there's a lot of really good information in this packet that we pulled from websites that are very good websites. A lot of what you guys will be using, like College Board. Have you guys heard of College Board? Yeah. So, like BigFuture is a big one that they can use to do college searches and everything. A lot of this information comes from there. So, when you get a chance, I
019highly suggest looking through everything that we gave you cuz it can help through that college search process. We also have a lot of information online on our website. If you get a chance, look at the counseling website because there is so much information connected on there. It will take a really long time to get through it all. We have information, the library has information on their webpage. So, there's a ton out there at your fingertips. You just got to look through our pages and it's all right there. It'll talk about like when you guys do your transcripts. We can do transcripts through Common App, but if you're applying directly or at the end of the year, you're going to use Parchment and it'll talk about that and explain how to use Parchment. So, it's just
020some good things to know in the future, but we also, just so you know, we do meet with the students in junior year and in senior year and we meet with them multiple times to go through the whole process. So, they have many, many meetings with us and then we send out the emails and you guys will get to see the emails of everything that we cover with them. There's a junior year meeting, there's a senior year meeting. We cover it multiple times. Okay, I won't have you guys stand here forever. Okay. >> [laughter] >> I know. Okay. So, let me go through to Where is my There's my discussion tips, but where is my actual game? That's really good discussion tips, but it doesn't give me my game. Okay, I don't have my actual
021back and forth. I have my discussion tips that is really good. Um Yes, do you want me to go grab it? Sorry, guys. One second. Sorry. So, this is the first year we've done like a a hybrid model where we've had a virtual and we have it being filmed so we can post it later. So, if anyone missed anything we talked about, it will be posted along with the presentation. Um but while we're waiting, does anyone have any questions about the presentation part? Sorry you guys have to stand here so long. >> [laughter] >> No, okay. So, check out those packets. They're great for especially when you tour colleges. There's a whole table in there for that. So, yeah. Mhm. Common App is a website where students can apply for multiple universities. So, they make
022one application. They we upload something called a school profile and then we put in the counselor recommendation and then we also input all of their like their GPA, all of that stuff and their transcript for the first semester their senior year and then they can go in and pick which colleges they want to apply to. Now, in that process, once they've picked those universities, they have each university has different steps, but that will all be communicated to them through the Common App. So, it's called Common Application. You can If anyone wants to look at it, you can look at it, Google it, but you don't have to make a an account or start adding colleges until like the summer of your, you know, between junior and senior year. And if you have a junior, we'll
023talk about it at the junior meeting at the end of the year. But the rising senior, the senior group. Any other any other counselor questions? Cleora. I have a question from the virtual. Okay. It says that someone asked, will the packet be made available online or for the students here? That is a great question. I'm so glad they asked. Um the packet is available for students to pick up in the counseling office. So, if you're joining us virtually, you want a packet, um it is available. You can just stop by the counseling office. It'll be on a table in there. Mhm. It's specific to each university. So, some universities require essays and some don't require any essays at all. Some don't even require teacher recommendations. But when you make the Common App, it will tell
024the student what is required. So, they'll be able to see. You don't have to and and you don't have to apply using Common App. You can go to directly to that school's website if you want to do it that way. Common App just makes it so that you can have do it's a little easier to do it that way if you're applying to more than one school. But some people just choose to go directly cuz they know maybe there's one or two colleges they really That's all they want to go and it's just easier to go directly to the school website to do it. That's also an option. And if you do it that way, they'll have everything clearly listed for you to make that decision. Everyone doing good? Getting good. Okay. >> [laughter] >>
025Yeah. Mhm. So, most school because one person is reading hundreds of applications. So, most schools will really have a limit on the amount of recommenda- They might say only one or two teacher recommendations. Um but it will if they you can also add like others. So, if they have a coach or they have like say they volunteer and there's someone they're working with that has just excellent things to say, that is usually an option to upload additional. Mhm. Um guys, I I don't think so. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, they can't see. We have students sometimes. It could be detrimental to your wallet cuz it's like $50 a pop, but you know, other than that, um it's it shouldn't affect their chances. So, Sorry, not my question. But to add on to that, Common Application typically
026only allows you to apply to 20. So, there is a limit. Just wanted to put that out there. I don't know that I've had a student reach that limit yet, but I'm sure I'm sure they've come close. So, What do you all say? Sorry. Okay, so that's a great question. So, there is a difference between early action and early decision. I don't want to get them confused. Um early action is where they're committing you Anyone jump in if I'm saying this wrong. Committing to the school, um, no, that's early decision. Early decision is when they're committing to the school. So, if that means if they get in, they're that's it. Like, it doesn't matter what any other school says, they're committing to that school. So, say I apply to Lawrence Tech and I apply to
027U of M and I apply to MSU, but I only say, yep, they're right here. In my line of vision. >> [laughter] >> Um, if I'm applying to them and I say, you know, I want early decision and I select MSU as my early decision option, then I'm saying, if I get in, I'm committing to that. Or, did I mess it up again? No, I didn't, right? I'm good. You have to decide early, so Mhm. Scholarships come later. Yeah, later. Yeah. Um, if every So, we have some, uh, people join us. So, if every if anyone if everyone has anyone has some gaps in their row, if they don't want to just scoot in a little bit so people can sit down and then we're We are ready now to start the game. Thank you
028all for being good sports. Thank you people online for listening. Students, again, excellent work. Excellent. >> [laughter] >> Yes, as we help people get around, too. So sorry. I'm like, I have my discussion tips, but they don't tell you where to go. Okay, so if you have taken as many challenging classes as your high school offers, move up two spaces towards me. Okay, if you play the oboe and you're good at it, move up one space. Okay, so with these, a more rigorous high school curriculum better prepares students for the college classroom. So, that would be why they moved up a space. For the oboe, sometimes the conductor does need to fill a critical critical spot in the orchestra. So, that might actually move a student up a space. Okay, so you choose to take
029math and science classes during your senior year, move up one space. Okay, we've kind of talked about this already, but it's about ensuring that students don't give up on their important core courses, even if they're not strictly required for graduation. So, a lot of times students are done with their requirements or many of them by the time they hit senior year, so a lot of them will stop taking them. The ones that continue, they'll notice that on their transcript. They're going beyond three years of required science. They're going beyond what's required in math. So, they do notice that. Okay, you clearly stated that this college is your first choice by applying early decision, which is a binding agreement that says you'll attend if you're admitted. So, move up two spaces. Okay, so colleges want students
030they know who will attend. They have kids right now that are applying to a lot of colleges. Applying early decision tells them, yes, they're going to attend. But, do be careful with that one because if you choose that, that means you're going to drop all other applications, no matter what they offer, even if it's a full ride, you're going to walk away from it for the college you gave early decision. So, just be careful with that one. Okay, you plan to major in psychology, move down one space. >> [laughter] >> Okay, so in some schools, the most popular majors, like psychology, pre-med, have too many students. And that can make it difficult for colleges to have enough course sections to ensure students have a place. So, when they've got too many in that major area,
031that can make a difference. Okay, so you plan to major in pre-med, move down one space. Same thing. Okay, you plan to major in a STEM field, like chemistry, computer science, engineering, or mathematics, move up two spaces. Okay, so everywhere you turn, people are talking about the need for more STEM majors. Colleges and their admissions committees are paying attention, too. You plan to major Oh, we did that one. Sorry. You had trouble finding someone to write your college recommendation letters because you don't know your teachers well. Move down two spaces. Okay, so when teachers know their students, they can better advocate for them. So, it's good for them to get to know their teachers, especially in the subjects that are related to their future careers. Those are the ones that they're going to be asking
032for the recommendations. So, if they're heading towards a STEM career, they're probably going to be asking their math or science teacher or even both for a recommendation. If they're going towards something that might have more language arts, then they would ask that teacher. So, it's Get to know your teachers because they need to know you in order to better write that letter. The senior questionnaire that Mrs. Goodwin also mentioned helps with that piece because you can't talk about everything at school. I know that. There's not enough time, but your senior questionnaire gives background information to both your counselor and your teachers that can help in writing those recommendations. Okay, so when you submitted your college applications, you forgot to change the names of the colleges to which you are applying, move down four spaces. That
033one's kind of an obvious one. Okay, your brother is a sophomore at this college, move up two spaces. Okay, you thought they meant it when they said the optional essay was optional, so you didn't write it. Move down one space. Okay, if colleges gives applicants an opportunity to share more about themselves, it's a good idea to do that. I know essays are not fun, but the more you can share about yourself, the better. So, that's why those optional essays can be helpful because your GPA and your test scores don't say it all, but you can talk more about yourself in an essay. Okay, you thought they meant it when they said Oh, sorry. I did that again. Your college essay about sports focused on your coach instead of on your own athletic growth. Move down
034one space. Okay, so students should focus on something they did, learned, or discovered about themselves rather than about another person cuz that essay is all about you and what you learned about yourself over time. And my favorite story is that a student wrote an essay on a Costco trip and it was one of the best essays that they read because they could talk about what they learned about themselves during that trip and really apply it. So, it doesn't have to be this ground break breaking essay that you went over to Africa and worked in the Peace Corps and did all these amazing things. It can just be, I went to Costco and this is what I learned about myself. And that can tell them a lot more. Okay, um you wrote the best essay of
035the year. It was passed around the admission office because it was so good. Move up three spaces. Okay, you plagiarized your AP US history paper and got caught. Move all the way to the end of the line and stay there for the remainder of the game. >> [laughter] >> Okay, so plagiarism and cheating is unacceptable in high school and in college and I know AI is starting to make this really difficult on you guys, so you got to start being careful. Okay, you will be the first person in your family to attend college, move up two spaces. Okay, colleges care about building diverse student bodies because it helps ensure more interesting class discussions and a better learning environment for everybody. So, that's why it would be helpful if you are that first person to go
036to college. Okay, now, where am I at here? Um You participated in an enriching summer program between your junior and senior years, move up two spaces. Okay, so those are those things that they can do outside of school that can really help with their applications to show that they're pursuing their passions. Okay, you have not participated in any extracurricular activities, don't have an after-school job, and don't have responsibilities to care for younger siblings. Move down three spaces. Okay. Your after-school activities include 4-H leadership and caring for younger siblings, move up one space. You are an Eagle Scout or a Gold Award winner, move up two spaces. Okay, students who have earned major awards and have shown that they can persist and accomplish their goals, sometimes that can be a simple as being in band all
037four years and persisting through it. Anything that you can show that consistency and persistence is why that'll help you move up. Okay. Number 18. I finished through that one. We're almost done, I swear. Okay, you are a varsity athlete, move up two spaces. If you are a varsity athlete who took second at the regional competition in your sport, move up one more space. So, you'd move up three. Okay, and that's Which is that one? Here we go. Okay. Even for those who don't plan to play in college, athletic participation shows that level of commitment and perseverance again. They don't have to play at college, it's just showing that perseverance. Okay. You got a D in an academic course at the end of your junior year, move down three spaces. Okay, colleges prefer to see students
038that improve over time rather than decline. Um but it doesn't have to be a deal-breaker. So, if they do get a bad grade and it happens like in junior year and senior year, you can send in an explanation with it to say what was going on or what happened at that time that may have caused that grade to be lower. So, if there's something that came up more than just I didn't do my homework, more than that, you can send an explanation with a grade. Okay. Next, you email the admission representative to ask questions and tell them about your interest in their school, move up one space. Okay, you are a legal resident of North Dakota, move up three spaces. >> [laughter] >> Okay. Um emailing the admissions rep, they want to know that a
039student who applies is interested in their school. One of the ways that they determine that is by how many times you're in contact with them. So, if that's touring, if it's visiting, if it's seeing the reps when they come here in the fall, it's making those contacts. If they're willing to email them, they're getting to know you better and you're showing a lot of interest in the school. In regards to North Dakota, that's where North Dakota's one of the smallest states and sends very few students out of state to college. That's why that one helps. Okay, you never gave your counselor or teacher personal information to use when writing your college recommendation letter, move down one space. So, again, those recommendation letters matter. They need to be able to be personal, have a lot of
040information in them. Those senior questionnaires are really important. The more information you guys can put in those, the better. Okay, and then last one. Aren't you guys happy? Your last name is Knight, the name on the library is Knight, and it's not a coincidence. Move all the way to the front of the line and stay there. >> [laughter] >> Okay, so that's yeses and Phil Knight. Some people give a lot of money to colleges to help them improve academic programs, build new buildings, um or simply to pay for the cost of running the school. Donations do matter, and fair or not, sometimes they help. So, that's why that one becomes important. All right, so if you'll take a look at their GPAs before they're done, if you guys will hold up your GPAs, you can
041see that at the front, it is not our top GPA at all. Our top three that are going to get in is a 3.2, a 3.6, and a 3.5. The 4.0 did not get in. So, only the top three are getting in. The middle three are going to get wait-listed, and then the ones down there are going to get denied. So, it there's a lot more to college admissions than just looking at the numbers. So, thank you for playing with me and for being patient. You guys can go sit down and get out of here. >> [laughter] >> Yes. Thank you. Okay, so now it's time for our college reps and for questions. If you guys want to come up here and sit, Oh, thank you. Oh, I was trying to hold the microphone. Okay,
042so um we're going to start with town hall-style questions, so I'm going to ask a series of questions that the reps have prepared for. Then we're going to open it up to you all for some general questions, and again, any specific questions, um you can ask at the tables for the college rep. For those of you who are just coming in, this microphone is for uh audio purposes, so they're going to pass it around, but it's not going to help us in here. Um so, project your voices. So, if um the college reps could just introduce themselves, what school you're with, um that would be great. Pam, if you want to Yeah, yeah. Oh. Sorry. Yeah, sorry, sorry. Going to move down the row here. >> [laughter] >> I'm Pam Vetorino, a senior admissions counselor
043from Lawrence Tech University. Hi everybody, my name is Andrew. I am a admissions counselor here at the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor. Hi everyone, my name is Zach. I am a senior admissions counselor at Michigan State University. My name is Nicholas Bennett. Uh I am a admissions counselor at Western Michigan University. I'm also a graduate of Western, so I'm an alum, proud Bronco. Uh I'm Ernesto Duran. I'm an admissions advisor at Oakland University. I one-up you, I'm a first-generation graduate of Oakland University. Uh my name is Kelly Thoman, and I am the OCC admissions coordinator. I am based out of the Auburn Hills campus, and I am an OCC alumni and a very proud OU alumni. Oh, and a CHS parent. Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot about her. I forgot about my kids. So, right
044now at OCC specifically, we are seeing a huge uptick in um dual enrollment. So, a lot of sophomores and juniors coming for dual enrollment, huge numbers, huge numbers. And a lot of um I just want to note that Clarkston is our top school right now um that attends OCC, and the free community college guarantee is really helping with that. Yeah, I second going off of that um with, you know, community college being free. Um you know, it definitely is very exciting, and I I love that, you know, more students have access to it. Um so, it's really just kind of looking past the numbers and seeing, you know, finding that fit, you know, it's not, like they were saying, not just about the numbers, it's about the campus culture, it's about the programs, um and
045what they're looking for uh in a college. I think going more into general uh aspect of it, uh authenticity. I think that's both true for students and universities. Uh students are looking for people that are authentic, and universities are looking for that in students as well. Um so, just overall, that authenticity. On a different note, um one thing I think we've started to notice a little bit in the last couple of years is something I'd refer to as commitment hedging, which is essentially where students might commit to multiple institutions even past the deadlines because they haven't really quite figured it out yet, right? They're still going even to the uh into the summer after they've graduated from high school, and they still haven't fully made up their mind, and they're kind of picking thereafter. And
046obviously, that can be a bit of a nightmare for universities to deal with. I don't really know what to make of it personally myself, but it is a trend that we've started notice the last couple of years. Sort of leaning on to what you were saying, among competitive applicants, what we were seeing is that students that weren't commitment hedging were really dedicating themselves to planning not only for their college time, but their future. And your counselors talked about it, but we also saw competitive applicants ending off their senior year strong. Commitment hedging is definitely definitely one I would I would say for sure. And that just means you're not quite sure. You know, you're still you're wanting to see all of your offers, you're wanting to see what kind of scholarships you get everyone, but
047you don't want to lose that spot. So, we do encourage you to try not to do that. You should do all that research and then try to get your once you're ready to commit to a school, that's the school you want to go to. Um the other thing is I have noticed that there are more students that are involved in they they're doing a variety of schools. I see a lot more students in the private area that they want the smaller school that has a little bit more personalized attention. So, make sure you're looking at all types of schools to find the right fit. Yeah, that that's always a I always get that question, but it's it's really tough because there's not a ton of difference between a regular university and a technical university. You
048will find that a lot of you technological universities are they get you in your major right away, but everyone else is going to say that, too. So, it's just it's a little bit more focused. There's no liberal arts programs in most of the technological schools. So, you can think of Michigan Tech, RIT, MIT. Those are all technological universities. So, there's quite a variety, but I would just say they're more you're not going to find as much liberal arts in a technological university. Some students worry that their freshman and sophomore grades might prevent them from getting into their top choice university. Is this a valid concern and what would you recommend? Yeah, I mean that is a valid concern. I totally understand why. I mean, most universities are going to be looking at your entire high
049school transcript, right? 9th through 11th grade, maybe 12th grade if we ask you for it throughout the admissions process. Um but I think the thing to remember is and it was mentioned earlier is we're looking at your grade trend throughout high school. Your transcript is going to tell a story and you're the one that's writing it, right? And so, we can see, you know, if maybe you're struggling in certain classes in particular or maybe you're on an upward grade trend or maybe you're on a downward grade trend. All of those things are building the story uh that will help us make an admissions decision at the end of the day. So, maybe in 9th grade you didn't have your best year, but I always tell students it's not over yet, right? You can continue to
050get better, improve your grades, work your way upwards, and we will see that as a result. Um even if you feel like you've dug yourself a hole that's way too deep to climb out of. I still recommend students put their very first very best foot forward because even if first year admission to university might no longer be in the cards for you if you don't think it might be in the cards, there is always still the possibility of transferring to that university. You want to make sure you're preparing as best as you possibly can to be in good shape to transfer to that university. And the next question is for Oakland University. What role do standardized tests play in applications? Does it matter if students take the ACT or SAT? And will schools stay test
051optional? And again, sorry. I just wanted to say if any other school wants to chime in on this one. Yes, it is different. Um I think it would say very based on like school size like you were mentioning. So, I would call like us the 10 to 20,000 students like mid-majors or like regional universities. Um for us, we are permanently test optional. I think a lot of schools are following that trend of becoming permanently test optional. Um so, is it required? No. Does it matter? Yes, especially when it comes things like scholarship consideration. Um a lot of like the mid-majors or regional universities can award more scholarship money if they have not only a strong GPA, but a strong test score as well. Um it could help with things like course uh course placement. So,
052if you're trying to get out of taking the lowest level English or math class, having a good subject score um on the SAT or ACT um can get you out out of that out of taking that first level class. Um and then yeah, just uh like I know that's not part of the question, but same thing kind of goes with like AP IB classes. They can definitely, you know, you don't have to send your scores. You never have to send your scores um unless they require you to. Um but speaking for OU, um you know, it it's only going to help you. Uh a lot of schools are going to use it to your advantage. Um because believe it or not, schools do want to accept as many students as possible. We don't want to
053say, you know, no to a lot of students. We want as many students have access, but at the same time we want to make sure that you're prepared academically to handle that that college workload. Does anyone else want to I think everyone is going to talk test optional, correct? Yes. Yeah, everyone's going Okay. Uh so, the next question is for U of M. What impact does course selection have on uh GPA? So, for example, IB, AP, dual enrollment, or standard college prep record? It's an excellent question. It has none. We consider everybody on an unweighted 4.0 scale. And so, after we do that, we then look at the curriculum that you're taking to see if it's rigorous. So, basically everybody's GPAs are going to be considered the same and then curriculum will be considered uniquely
054from that. All right. And then we're going back to uh MSU. You know, I would like to comment. Yes. I I really need to cuz we're very different. We're all very different on that point. So, um so, at at our at Lawrence Tech, we do weight your AP classes. Um so, that's important at the and when we we admit you, we're using a recalculated GPA. So, we're only looking at your English, your math, your social sciences, and your natural sciences. If you have um you know, ceramics or you know, some of those classes um are even computer science, those aren't calculated into your um recalculated GPA. And that's what we use. But again, those AP scores, if you got a B, we're going to give you credit for like an A. So, we do weight
055that and that does come into play when we admit you into your program. So, we're all so different. Um So, at Western, we take your weighted GPA, what you earned in high school. We don't do any recalculations. It's on a 4.0 scale. So, if you have a 4.5, that's what you get. Uh that's what you come to Western with is that 4.5. That's what we recognize. So, a little bit different there in that sense, too. Uh to where we just take that highest GPA that you have, either weighted or unweighted, but it's probably going to be the weighted side, right? Um all right. So, where was I? Okay, back to MSU. All right. Some students feel pressured to volunteer for their resumes, but struggle to balance school, part-time job, extracurriculars. How important is a student's
056resume in the admissions process? Yeah, so I think the importance of the resume in the admissions process is of course always going to vary based on the institution that you're applying to, right? The the weight and the impact of those extracurriculars and even based on the opportunities that you're looking for at that institution, right? For example, at Michigan State, um the resume, it plays a small, but still important part in the process overall. We're going to look at the extracurriculars you're involved in. We're looking at all of that. Um but say you want to not only be admitted to MSU, but you want to be admitted to the MSU Honors College. All of MSU students are automatically for that. Now, if you want to be admitted to the Honors College, if you want to be
057invited to it, you really better make sure that you have your resume beefed up as much as you can, that you're really involved outside of the classroom, that sort of thing, right? It's not I think come on when you look at the more selective opportunities overall, those extracurriculars in addition to the strong grades, in addition to the strong curriculum has even more impact as you look across different institutions um on on that front. Okay, the next question is for OCC. What are the benefits of attending community college for students uncertain about college plans or affordability? So, right now is really an unprecedented time to attend community college as it's free for all graduating Michigan high school students. If you are unsure or if you um are dealing with some cost issues, you can get your
058first up to 3 years of a associate's degree or up to 3 years worth of college credits for free. If you are not sure what you're going to do, I would recommend starting with an associate's in arts because that is something that qualifies as the MTA, the Michigan Transfer Agreement. That will transfer on to any of my university partners I'm sitting with right here. So, you could do up to 3 years completely free at OCC while you're figuring out what you want to do. Take some science classes. You don't like science? Okay, great. That's not going to be your major. You know, take some art classes. You're not a fan of art? Great. let's try math. Um you're doing all of that for free. You're not building up student loans and then you find your
059passion, you find your your pathway of what you want to do and you're going to transfer on to my university friends over here. If applications indicate that letters of recommendation are optional and a student only sends what is required, does it negatively impact their chances for acceptance? That's an excellent question [clears throat] and this is another one of those it just depends. At the University of Michigan, we do require one letter of recommendation be submitted and if that student submits that one, awesome. That's perfectly fine. They can submit more if they would like to, but you sort of run a risk of potentially quote having too many unquote where counselors are reading hundreds all the time, so they might be missing some of the meaningful information. It can be more helpful for a student to
060have just one required letter of recommendation that speaks outstandingly of them rather than five that just speak mildly neutral overall. One thing I'll just add really quickly is that I I found from both Michigan State University and also a handful of other institutions as well that we tend to be pretty deliberate with the language that we use in terms of what we're looking for for an application process. And an example I'll give of that, I won't name the institution, it's not even in the state of Michigan, um but they do not re- use uh SAT score. That does not mean they are test optional. That means they do not want you to send in your SAT score. And if you do send in your SAT score, you are sending a message that you are not
061following directions, right? And so that is an example of, you know, the language that we use in these admissions processes is very deliberate, it's calculated, we're using it for a reason, and so I think it's usually best to follow it to the letter, and if you have any questions, reach out to reach out to us directly just to ask. Um all right, this next question is actually a question that we just added, so our some of our uh reps, it's new to them, but we added it because as men as all of you know, it's scheduling season at Clarkston High School and it's this is a question that's come up with our students, so we wanted to get it answered for everyone. So, for students who completed 2 years of a world language, how do
062you universities view taking a third year? Would continuing that language be more beneficial or would it be better for students to choose a different elective? You handed it to me first. We're going to go right down the line. Okay. So, first of all, Lawrence Tech does not require language to get into any of our programs. So, but we do have a process that we calculate GPA or scholarships. So, if we see that you have taken your language all 4 years, you're going to get points for that because a lot of times students want to don't want to take foreign language their their senior year. So, if you have the ability to do it, I would do it. It sends a great message. It depends. And here's why. We have 10 recruiting undergraduate schools and colleges
063that you can try apply to and each one has its own requirements. If you're going for one of the largest ones that we have, College of Literature, Science, and the Arts, it may be beneficial. They naturally explore a lot of language courses, you're going to have to take eight semesters of that while you're there, so that can also prepare you for that. Same thing with our Ross School of Business, they ask for some world language for student to have as well, so exploring that can be beneficial for the student, but if you're interested in something like engineering, kinesiology, anything else of the sort, it may be beneficial to take those opportunities to explore other maybe more rigorous or required courses that are part of what that college or school is looking for. Yeah, so I
064mean with Michigan State, and I think it was mentioned earlier like with Lawrence Tech, um when we're looking at your application, we're looking at your core classes, and I always say it's math, science, English, social studies, and foreign language, right? So, of course we're recommending that students take 2 years of foreign language, but if you're taking a third and a fourth year of foreign language, we are using that in our review the same as we would with your social studies, with your math, with your science, so it's going to benefit you all the same. I'm personally very biased, I studied French at Michigan State, so I love when students are pursuing foreign language beyond the bare minimum that that we ask of them um in that case. You never know if you want to study
065abroad or if you want to have the opportunity to study abroad one day, who knows? Maybe that'll be a really beneficial education that you can get um to do that kind of activity. Um but again, it can vary case by case, but with MSU in particular, we're still going to use those as core classes in the review process. Yeah, very similar to what's been said so far. Um really the only additional thing is if you want to take it to that AP level, uh for that AP level in uh AP like language, um then maybe that will help you uh not take a general education course, what we call Western Essential Studies. Uh so maybe you won't have to have that requirement for the language uh for those essential studies, those general education. So, if
066you want to take it up to that AP level or if you want to do like uh depending on your major like international law or something like that, um then it might be beneficial to continue that language. Yeah, uh for Oakland, I would say it's another case of is it required? No, but can it matter? Yes. Um for students interested um who are a part of OU's Honors College, there is a 2-year foreign language proficiency because no matter what career you go into, having a foreign language could be beneficial. Um also, um when you're applying to OU, you're just applying to the uh university, so for admissions purposes, it's not required. Um but for any students who major in our College of Arts and Sciences, which most of our majors are, um you are required
067to take exploratory uh credits, which are at least 12 credits outside your major. So, if you've taken, you know, additional language classes in uh high school, that's something that you can just test out of um when you come to OU. Uh same thing with the Honors College, you can always just test into or test out of taking that extra uh foreign foreign language. I'm just going to add to all of that that if you um don't want to take continue to take your language in uh high school at Clarkston, you want to pursue maybe some APs in that language position or you don't want um to use that hour, that half elective for a language, you could always add that as a dual enrollment class at OCC and that would look very good on your
068application to one of these guys. Okay, so panel, I'm going to actually skip the last question. It's your least favorite anyway, so it's okay. Um and so the only reason why it is their least favorite question, the only reason why is be- we're running short on time and I wanted to give the audience a chance to ask some questions. So, the first thing we're going to do because we have a computer audience is we're going to take the few questions we have from there. Cleora, you want to Okay, so someone said if the first acceptance letter that you get is to your top school, is there a benefit to waiting to hear from the others before you say yes? >> [laughter] >> All right, so I hope I'm not speaking out of turn. I think
069for most institutions in Michigan anyway, most of us are going to be sharing uh commitment deadlines um for the most part, I think. May 1st is the big one. Is May 1st not the deadline for anyone? You don't have a commitment? Okay. So, I always tell students this, you know, even if they're considering MSU, um to wait until they get all of their information before they make that decision, right? Because they have until May 1st with MSU, they'd have until May 1st with U of M, they'd have until after May 1st with Oakland University, right? So, you have time, right? You're not going to be too compelled to pick one university over the other for any reason. It's best to just wait until you have all of that information in tow to make a decision
070with. You shouldn't really be too rushed in that process. We don't want you to make a decision without that information in hand either, okay? A plus. So, does anyone in the audience have any general questions before we let the um reps go to their tables? I was just wondering if there's anything to consider if uh a student is considering going out of state or um going in the state uh staying in a dorm or going home. So, if uh is there anything to consider whether you do 2 years local and then out of state or do 4 years and then I think the big thing is just cost. Like it ultimately comes down to cost. Um so if you if you're willing to spend that extra money to go out of state, um sometimes it
071is uh a couple thousand dollars more just to go out of state, um but other times there are opportunities that potentially you can go out of state with scholarships. Um so it's just dependent on on those universities and the student's situation, uh that financial situation on on how college will be paid for. Um yeah. Oh, sorry. I didn't want to cut you off. Oh, were you going next? We can pass it. I'll send it back. So, I want make sure everyone understands if you're looking at a private university, everyone pays the same if you go to a private university, in state or out of state. So, there is no out of state tuition. So, you know, just to make sure you know that. If someone's coming from Indiana or New York's New York, they're paying
072the same tuition as you are at Lawrence Tech cuz it we're a private university. So, just make sure you you know that if you're doing the out-of-state, you know, evaluation for private universities. So, yeah. I'm not trying to take I just forgot. I'm supposed to restate the question for the recording. So, for those of you in the recording, the question was what is the cost does is there any cost benefit for staying in state versus going out of state or staying in state for part of the time for part of your schooling then going out of state after? Is that Well, I think of more about credits and transferring. Oh, credits and transferring, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Ernesto. Thank you. Um kind of going off of your question, I feel like something that I run
073into a lot is um students not knowing that if um freshman scholarships are different than transfer scholarships. And freshman scholarships are far more greater than um transfer scholarships. It's not just per year, but obviously over the course of 4 years. Cuz usually freshman scholarships are renewable for four, whereas transfer scholarships are only renewable for two. So, yes, it's great that community college is free, but I always say it's one thing to save money, but it's another thing to leave money on the table. And so, if you are Yes, it could you know, obviously it's hard to beat free, but again, if you're looking to get that living on campus experience or you're looking to get out of state or you're looking to major in something specific, it could be a matter of Yes, I I
074you know, if I start at this school, I would say like especially if you have a really high GPA, you're getting a lot of scholarships, but community college is free. Okay, well, yes, but at the same time we're offering you almost half off tuition, you know, to say one of these guys, you know, so just take it into consideration of um you know, again, saving money versus leaving money on the table. We are We are very much friends. We are very much friends, but um yeah, and we don't have ivory program that OCC does. That's that's a big thing, I guess. So, yes, please go. And especially if you don't know what you want to major in, that could be a a really big reason to like she was saying, get the MTA. Um I
075work with a lot of students who who know they want to do the MTA because they just want that ease of mind of, you know, I'm I'm I'm here and I'm getting these classes done and I'm figuring out what I want to do. They're not jumping into writing some jumping into something they're not prepared for. I'm your friend. I promise I'm your friend. I'm your friend. >> [laughter] >> So, more on that um that community college, so it we've we are the same. We do offer a more generous scholarship for freshman. So, I just encourage you um to to go through the process. Afterwards, you may say, "You know what? I went through the process. I got into three schools, but I think I still am going to go to the community college first cuz
076I think it's going to help me in the long run." I think it's important to still do that. So, you can compare those numbers and see what what is a better option, the OCC option or the the, you know, Lawrence Tech or Michigan State option. To circle back to your point with transferring, I think one other thing to keep in mind with both transferring and also like any grad school, too, is I always tell students to try and work your way backwards, right? Because you might go to a community college and think, "Okay, I want to transfer to this institution. So, I'm going to need to take this class, this class, this class." But it's also really good if you're doing that to reach out to the institution that you intend to arrive to and
077ask them questions. How do I do this? What do I need to know? What tools do you have to help me figure out a transfer pathway, right? Um I say the same thing with grad school, too, cuz a common question I get is um I want to do this major at Michigan State. Is that going to work for this grad plan, right? Um and I always tell students there's a lot of different graduate programs out there. Work your way backwards. Find which ones you would want to apply to. Look at what they ask you to do at the undergraduate level. We probably will have it, but it's better than me working you forward. Work your way backwards. I think it's the same thing with transferring, too. So, we're going to just take a couple more
078questions cuz of time. I want to give you guys a chance to talk to them outside. I we have one more virtual question. Yeah, um someone said, "Is there any difference in value between a 4 years of band and 4 years of a language? Which language is better?" For University of Michigan, they're completely separate things. Um 4 years of a language would fall under a curriculum and the rigor of the curriculum, while 4 years of bands would fall into your extracurriculars. So, I think you should do both if that's what you want to. Um but they're they're not exactly comparable, at least for U of M. And I don't know if anybody else I'll just add. So, one small point I I review I just happen to review music applications for Michigan State. So, if
079you're interested in doing one of the music majors, I would review that application. There's an audition process for it. Um and they would be looking very closely at your music classes. So, band and any other music-related class you were taking like that. So, if you knew you wanted to go to any institution for a music program, of course, like any band anything related to music overall is going to be invaluable um compared to even your core classes that you're taking. But if you have no intention of studying uh music in any way, then yeah, it would serve as an extracurricular potentially, but then those other core classes like foreign language uh would still be really important for your application as well. >> [laughter] >> What I'll say is that basically, at least for University of
080Michigan, it's helpful to see if a student is participating in um computer science because computer science is an additional thing that you can apply for right off the bat, known as advanced selection. And interest in computer science is something that we're seeking. What I will say is that if you're concerned about wanting to continue those world languages, you could also continue through that in classes and then use your extracurriculars to show development and interest in computer science outside of the curriculum. So, is there an advantage or disadvantage to doing your undergrad in the same school as you want to do your graduate program in? So, say we want to go to MSU for pre-med and also want to go to that grad school. Advantage or disadvantage? Neither. Um yeah, so I I I think you
081could perceive an advantage in that you would be closer to those resources. You'd be able to ask again, work your way backwards a little bit easier than if you had otherwise, but you're still going to have to do an application process and you're not going to be advantaged by um being an undergraduate student at the same institution, right? Most important thing at the end of the day is that you're uh pursuing the curriculum that's required for the graduate program and that you're doing well in that curriculum and that you're competitive, but you can pursue that at other institutions as well. That's not going to set you back in comparison. So, so the other thing to think about is By the way, we are all your friends. Make sure you talk to us. Make sure you
082talk to your admissions counselors. That is an excellent question for the admissions person that you're working with at the college. There are some schools that don't allow you to continue into your to the graduate program. So, you have to go somewhere else. And it it's it varies by institution. So, make sure you talk to your admissions people if those are some of your goals. Um it's also something to consider uh is like at Western, we have accelerated degree programs, which means that you get your master's degree in 5 years. So, basically like a 4 + 1. So, if there's a institution that has that program, definitely look into that institution if you want to continue your education after. Um and then also with Western, we have a medical school as well. Um and students have
083the advantage to apply to that medical school after their junior year. Um so, they can see if they get into that medical school. Uh that's an advantage that you get as a student at Western um where you may not be able to apply to other schools until you're in that that senior year, that fourth year. Um and then you can see from there. So, there's advantages uh to going to schools and wanting to continue that education. It just it really is dependent on those schools. All right, we'll take one uh one more question and then we're going to let the reps exit first after this question and um then you guys can exit. Um but yes, go ahead. Sorry. I think this is an easy one. So, and I don't think Michigan and Michigan State
084were included, but I think remember all the rest of the schools in the state like formed some coalition or something a couple years ago and like if you had like a 3.5 or 3.7, like you were guaranteed acceptance. Am I thinking something right? Like what were the requirements for that? It's called MAP. I forget the acronym, but yeah, it was definitely like guaranteed admission um if you had that GPA, yeah. I believe I don't think they're in this room, but I think there was one other school besides them, too, that weren't a part of it. Um But yeah, definitely I would say like just going back to just reach out to your admissions rep um because they can they can have that average conversation with you cuz like I said, we want to be able
085to admit students. So, if you have any hesitancy uh about your GPA, yeah, start the conversation early and then yeah, some schools like like for instance OU, we actually will consider anything above a 2.5, you know, so that that three I can't remember if it was yeah, 3.5 or 3.0, but yeah, that that guarantee does exist, but doesn't mean that's the that's the cutoff by any means. All right, I want to thank you all for joining us. In your packet on the very back is QR code. We've taken up a lot of your time today. There were some some technical errors, but that QR code will take you to a survey and we use that to build our program for next year. So any feedback you can provide we greatly appreciate. We do look at
086it and we do consider what you say. first students in the counseling office if you're on virtually. Thank you all so much for coming out. >> [applause]