JPS Board Meeting - 05/20/25

001Good evening. It is 6 o'clock. We're going to call the meeting to order. Thank you all for attending. For anyone that would like to address the board, please make sure you grab one of those half slips on the back counter and make it up make its way up here to Sarah and you will have the opportunity to have five minutes at that time during the agenda. Pledge of Allegiance, please. Thank you. Sarah, will you conduct a roll call for us, please? Miss Hamilton. Mrs. Simonetti, here. Miss Actton, here. Mr. Ready? here. Miss Sharp Mr. Doby's Miss Hunt present. Thank you. It's her first meeting or something. Agenda item number four, approval of the agend of the agenda. Move approval of the agenda. Thank you. Thank you. We have a motion to approve and support any

002deliberation. Hearing none. All those in favor? Any opposed? Motion carries to approve the agenda. Agenda item number five, superintendent report. Jeff. Y. Um, so I'm going to ask uh Mr. Beer, our our district council, to come up and and he'll share. While he's coming up, I just want to give an update real quick. We we approved our bond um proposal for November of 2025 and I kind of give everybody an update on that one. Uh Marcus and I sat down last week with Triangle and TMP and we've actually been working for a couple weeks now to uh structure the bonds so that we know which projects are going kind of in which order, if you will. And so, uh, that has been done and it's necessary step as we prepare the Treasury app, which will

003be the next piece to go in. Um, and we will have that Treasury app in I'm going to say no later than mid what do you got? 9th. We're going to have the Treasury app in on June 9th. Thank you very much, Marcus. And then we will need a special board meeting in the month of July to approve ballot language. Um, and some of that just has to do with the timing of of when we get our ballot language um on the uh on the agenda. So, um, if you might want to before you all leave, at least put your heads together and have a conversation about what might be a good day. Um, I know it's July everybody, but try to find a good day for for a short meeting at the very least

004to talk about the ballot language that will accompany this and and lawyers will write it. So, it's not like you got to come in here and try to draft it yourself. Somebody's going to put it together for you. So, would it be any easier if we just email Sarah our unavailabilities? Probably she'll should kind of coordinate that. Is she put out a a calendar? She can get an email kind of going just to get an idea. And that way she can say, "Well, these are the dates people are available." If that's good with everybody, that works. Thank you. All right. All right. Um, we invited, uh, Brendan, we invited you here tonight because we have four, uh, policies that were tabled, um, at our policy committee meeting in April. Um, and coming forward, the board

005has some broader questions on it. I know that that you have shared some opinion with with President Hunt, and I believe she invited you to come and kind of share that with the whole board. So, I I might I'm going to turn it back over to you, Miss Hunt, and Brendan. and you guys can entertain a discussion as long as you guys need to. Thank you Brendan for being present. Yes. So those four um documents that we have brought before the board um committee has looked at them. We've had some discussion out of the committee. There came some comments that um indicated there was some legal opinion that could be shared to help us better understand how to move forward with this. Better okay. Um yes. So I I reviewed all of the policies including

006the one you sent me this afternoon. So I've been through them. Um, I will tell you I'm happy to write a legal opinion, a written legal opinion on any of the prospective policies you'd like me to do that on, but just reviewing them. There are concerns that I have that I want the board to be aware of with respect to each of the four policies. So, it's probably easiest if I just we just pick one and I start with it. And so does anybody have any opinion or you just want me to move through them in this what order they are in my stack and I don't know what the order is but um okay first one is related to therapy dogs at JPS um and I want and I want to preface you know

007my comments to all of these perspective policies one's actually a resolution but the the policies by stating that you know from from my perspective as a lawyer not as a person but as a lawyer. The the way that I see policy development is that the board should be passing and considering policies necessary to ensure that if those policies are followed and those policies are complied with that the district will run in in and it will run in such a way that it is in compliance with state and federal law. Um that did not happen for a period here. Uh there was a period before we had NEOA policy involvement at the district where the district had a long-standing set of policies that it had written over the course of time that it maintained and just

008periodically had updated by legal counsel. Um, very early on in my time representing the board, which is along the lines of exactly when Jeff came here, I was asked to undertake a review. Many of the district's policies had through time and and uh lack of attention fallen out of compliance with state and federal law become outdated had not been updated the way they needed to be. Jeff made a recommendation to the board that we begin using a an EOLA program uh which is the program that the vast majority of districts that I represent and I'm involved with utilize and those policies are drafted by them, reviewed by council to ensure that the policies are in compliance with state and federal law and that the district has the policies they need to have to stay in

009compliance with state and federal law. And so when I review these, anytime I review a policy, the question is, is that what we're accomplishing? And when you don't follow that mindset, I find that often times the district either doesn't address legal requirements that need to be addressed or places, this is frankly true of private corporations as well, um, or they take on obligations that they're they're frankly not legally required to take on. and and create more obligation than is necessary or required. Um and so when I when I look at for instance this a therapy dog policy um I understand recent developments with respect to therapy dogs and educational institutions. I have other districts that I represent that have therapy dog programs candidly. Um, looking at the policy as a lawyer, the two things that

010really kind of come to mind are there is a distinct difference between a service dog and and a therapy dog. And my concern is that there has been extensive litigation in the K through2 setting. Frankly, there was US Supreme Court precedent created in Napoleon um over the use of service dogs. and we have a a requirement to comply with service dog requirements relative to the ADA. Much of that is what you see reflected in the current policy. There is no legal requirement that we consider therapy dogs at the as a district. Um, I would say that the districts that I represent that have taken that on, when I look at this, there are things in this policy that we've added like statements that the district is is is not going to be taking on liabilities.

011There's a section damages and injuries. The district shall not assume responsibility or liability for any damage to school property or injury to district staff, students, or others in the school caused by a therapy dog. Um, that's going to do nothing for you. You definitely are going to be taking on liability. If you have a therapy dog that's in one of these buildings, that therapy dog bites a staff member of Jackson Public Schools, you are taking on liability. Michigan is a strict liability state when it comes to dog bites. If your dog bites someone in the state of Michigan, liability is not an issue. You are liable 100% by statute. Um, you will be liable. Um, when I read this policy, it doesn't really talk about the districts that I have that that do this, they

012either bring in a third party who is a certified handler who has done many of these types of things and they bring them in for specific events. I've had clients that have done it in situations where, you know, unfortunately, you've had a student who has committed suicide, um, where the district a student has died in a car accident. Some students, some schools, including the one my my wife has utilized them on test days, you know, when students are going to be taking part in standardized tests and things like that. They find that it brings down the anxiety level within there. But the people who are brought in, the dogs are certified, the handlers are experienced, and you're hiring a third party company to bring those people in. some of the of the organizations you identify

013in this policy as who we would accept a certification from offer that very service. Um, and so my concern would be who are we going to have be the handler? Is it any student who because that's the way this reads that shows up with a a therapy dog and they're going to be the handler. Um, or are we expecting staff to do that? Um, to me those are things that would need to be ironed out. Um, and I have had districts that have these programs. One that has a district program where the district actually has staff acting as the handler, have one or two in each building. And not long ago, they had an incident where one of the therapy dogs was removed because it it bit a staff member. And so when you're allowing

014a therapy dog to come in, I don't think just stating in your policy that you're not going to take on that liability is going to do anything for you if something like that were to occur at the district. If a student was to be bit if a staff member was to be bit, um, if a student who is allergic to dogs has some kind of reaction as a result of an exposure to the dog, may not even know they're allergic to dogs because they never had a dog at home. I mean, from a non-liability standpoint, not everybody likes dogs. Frankly, I have a friend who is a a very good friend who is a staff member here at Jackson Public Schools, and I can tell you I have a dog and they do not like

015my dog. So, um I just think that it's a policy that I'm not sure that I would wait into if I was you. Certainly not without having some conversations with districts that have done this. Um because I think you'll find some of them have mixed feelings on whether the juice that they get from this program is worth the squeeze. Any questions, concerns, or comments? Vice President Dobies, please. I'm sorry I missed who that was. Okay, Mr. Dobies has a question. All right. Um, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and I appreciate the opportunity to actually talk about this policy that um, I've talked to many of the board members generally about and have talked to administrators and uh, teachers about uh, that see value and um, value in this policy and value in therapy dogs.

016uh the policy that um uh you're uh bringing some issues to light on uh is something that um I worked on myself um with Superintendent Beal and um got into this draft phase um where we had discussion and dialogue back and forth and determined that this is something that's ready to take to the to engage in the deliberative process on this policy. Um I appreciate our um use of Niola. Um I don't think it precludes necessary necessarily precludes us um from crafting our own policies so long as they are consistent uh with state and federal law. Um, I appreciate your uh differentiation between service dogs and therapy dogs. Um, I think that that is important. um that has been the subject of some confusion um in our casual conversations on the board and in the

017community that uh service dogs and and I talked to Superintendent Peele about this earlier today as well that um we will allow service dogs on property on school property consistent with the ADA um and that therapy dogs I think the intent of this um after more discussion uh from first putting this in front of the board months ago and now having the opportunity to actually discuss it. um is for these um to be uh not used, not uh dogs that are brought in by the students um or by just any faculty, but the program being similar to what you see in other schools with a therapy dog in each school that is managed by a handler. And our determination at the time was to have uh the um uh rules and uh administration of that

018be a um be determined by the superintendent uh to basically um bring forth the rules of which this program would operate across the district um in our schools. And whether that be school by school or um one school at a time or all schools and and um leaving that up to basically authorizing it by the board saying that this is the direction that we want to go and then leaving up to the superintendent to um develop the program and the rules that would guide that stuff consistent with state and federal law. um a couple of the things that um since I've been meeting with um some of the uh third parties that you referenced um that do bring dogs into schools that also have helped other school districts develop their policies uh and that also

019um train dogs uh to be placed into school settings. Um they have also recommended some uh changes to the policy consistent with some of the things that you've talked about about liability and that um uh even going so far as to just refer to these as facility dogs um that are owned by the district. Uh and the district bundles the liability for uh these uh therapy dogs, facility dogs into um into its uh broader liability coverage. So um happy to that you um seem to be uh expressing some consistency with their uh beliefs as well. Um, understand that not everybody likes dogs. Understand that, um, we have to evaluate whether the juice is worth the squeeze. Um I think I can um maybe articulate that at a at a different time, but um agree that

020um I you know the pro the the process of um the introduction of this and the um process by which it kind of uh went to um the policy committee maybe back out and then we're here um getting some feedback on it from view with some, you know, kind of broader general commentary about juice being worth the squeeze. And um that we don't have a legal requirement to consider therapy dogs. Um, you know, I think I would be interested and happy to um give some time for others to ask questions about this, but um I think that action items coming out of tonight would be um uh to allow me to bring some some of the um feedback that I've gotten from Kines's for Change and some of the other actors in this space uh

021back in front of the board. Uh happy to um allow for some other commentary. Any other discussion? Marilyn. So, thank you um Mr. Beer for um explaining this. These are my concerns. Also, a lot of children don't like dogs. A lot of children are afraid of dogs. A lot of people are allergic to dogs. They might not know. And all dogs bite, as I've said before. My father was a veterinarian. I've done dogs my whole life. My sister's a dog behaviorist and she used to um certify those uh therapy dogs. So, I'm I'm just concerned that dogs bite and the school district could be 100% liable. And then I just think it's a distraction. However, I like the idea and Cheryl's on the policy committee with me. We did talk about those those situations that

022we, you know, don't want, but car accidents, suicides, and a third-party handler with their own dog. I'm not averse to that. We talked about that. We're not averse to that. We think that that would be really therapeutic. So, I love dogs. I love cats. I love horses even more. So, but thank you for explaining. And my my feeling, you know, after hearing Mr. Adobe's comments as well as your own is you know there are services out there that will provide the dog that will provide the handler the the handler is is experienced and I don't think the board I frank frankly think your policy currently affords the ability for you to do that if you feel like that's something as a district um would be valuable. Um, what I don't like is the idea of

023opening it up to where there are people wanting to bring therapy dogs to the school and we don't necessarily have a capable handler. We don't necessarily have a great idea of the dog. Um, we don't have a service provider to potentially require indemnity from if one of their dogs was to bite someone on campus. Um, other districts that I know who have done this, um, and they take ownership of the dog, um, if you can find staff members to be the handlers, they go through proper training, you can potentially ensure against that. But I just feel like you're wanting to see the value of a of a therapy dog, which they have value. um maybe start small with just the concept of having them around and and those kinds of times we've discussed and see

024whether you feel like the benefit is is what you're hoping it would be. Um anyway, that's my two cents on that. Brendan, you you said you have interaction currently with other districts that have this policy, a policy similar to this already in place. You spoke about the concerns. Can you talk about the the positive um impact that it has on our students socially, emotionally? You know, that that's not really my area of expertise. Um I will tell you, you know, because I I want to be as forthcoming with you as possible that I thought the idea was, you know, the lawyer and me thought the idea was a little crazy from a liability standpoint. I I think it's probably unwise and probably I'm not going to be convinced otherwise as a lawyer, but when I

025was confiding in my wife about this, as I told you, my wife teaches at Northwest. They have a therapy dog program at Northwest. She says it's great. Students react well to it. And so, from my perspective, um, you know, maybe we should ask her to come in and give some comments, you know, but that's the teacher and her versus the lawyer and me. And so it's uh you know I understand that that you're if you ask around you are going to find people who are going to tell you that there's value in it. Um but I do think that the liability there is real and if you talk to some people at Northwest you are going to find there's been some positives associated with the program. There's also been some very real negatives um that

026I'm sure some of the administration would share with you as well. Um, and so I don't want to talk too much out of the hat, but it's, you know, that would be my comments on that particular policy. Thank you. Jeeoff, you have a comment. Yeah. And I've and and I've been pretty open back and forth with Derek and he's talked to me several times about this. I think a couple areas that I would express concerns about all right have to do and it goes back to the the certification because honestly at this point any of us with a laptop computer and $35 can have a therapy dog certificate in the mail. Amazon delivers them every day and I'm teased but that's the idea. um without a whole lot of training behind it. And then I

027worry more about individual students bringing or or making a case for therapy dogs when our policy right now very clearly delineates so um social emotional well-being as therapy and service as service. And so we we kind of steer clear and and and stay in that ADA lane. I am concerned um and and this is exactly what I've shared with with with Mr. Dobby so I'm not speaking out of turn. The reality is I'm concerned with what happens when student A makes a convincing case I need my therapy dog and student B doesn't and I end up in a different conversation about am I discriminating against one student over another. How do we how do we delineate that? I I really believe if we're going to have this conversation, in my opinion, and this is I'm

028sharing it with the board, in my opinion, it should be a district provided or a districtont controlled, and that doesn't mean districtowned necessarily, but district provided program, not something I think we should be very clear about as a board that this can't be if this is a student by student issue. We might not lose ground in 2025, but in 2026 or 2028 or 2032 somewhere, this thing's going to slip sideways and and I'm thinking about the long-term effect of of what this policy or the unintended consequences what this policy may look like. So, that was my concern and then I've shared that before as well. Thank you, Mr. Doies. Again, I I um uh appreciate the feedback and we'll take some of the um uh language suggestions around liability and uh the facility dogs into

029account. I think that like um the intent at least of the policy at the end says the superintendent is responsible for the production and promulgation of administrative guidelines to carry out the board's intention to have therapy dog program across the district consistent with this policy. The administrative guidelines shall comply with all federal, state, and local laws applicable to therapy dogs. I think um where I have seen this uh the certification process that I mean the dogs are uh not uh inexpensive um they go through a rigorous pro process and their handlers also go through a a rigorous certification um and uh frequently go through a reertification uh process itself. So I think it's um uh disingenuine to say that the intent of this policy is so that everyone anyone can get a certification or that

030we would be having uh a therapy dog process where um that is therapy dog program that is synonymous with service dogs. Um, so I look forward to clarifying, working to clarify this policy so that it more accurately articulates that this is a facility dog program um, with the appropriate liability language. And and Derek, I'll make clear I promise you I'm not I'm not saying that that one way or another. I think my concern is is again that kind of that long-term and I've shared that before just what does that look like for individuals and when we Mr. beer. I would appreciate that when this policy does come to fruition and it won't be me. It'll be somebody else. Um I'm hoping that we can have at least a a conversation or the board will have

031a conversation about really how this is administered and and what does this look like from that standpoint because we probably do want to spell out some certification requirements and we probably do whoever the superintendent is at the time. Like I said, it might be 2025 that we deal with this. It might be 2032 that it comes around and it's somebody completely different or you know the conversation in my head needs to be how do we protect the district long term? And so how do we make certain that the superintendent whoever he she they are is not put into a position where they're potentially facing an OCR claim for denying one person and saying yes to another. So that's that would be my ask of of you, Mr. Beer. And again, my ask of the board

032as they consider this moving forward. And I'm and I'm a dog person. Again, I I I I can see the value in our in our so, you know, in our social work and our counseling office settings. I really do. I I really, like I said, it's that the I don't want to call it the Chihuahua that we want to bring to school, but the, you know, the purse pup or the somebody's pitbull that they, you know, they love. And I I'm a pitbull person. Again, same conversation. So those would be those would be my long-term concerns. And again, it's this isn't about, you know, Jeff's issues. This is about how do we protect the district? Not not Jeremy's issues or the next superintendent, but what's the district in for in the future. So as this

033policy comes back, I hope that and and I don't know what the right process is for for kind of developing this so that everybody's issues are kind of handled and we're not going back and forth with rough draft to comment to rough draft to comment how we get this kind of out there. So that might be my next piece is what do we want to do with it and that's coming up later in the action discussion item conversation I think. Thanks Jeff. Any other discussion from anyone else and we just have to remember that it's for the good of all students. So, some students don't like dogs, you know. I mean, just have to be careful about this. And some parents might not want dogs in the school. So, it's for all the kids. Brendan,

034next policy, please. We can just go right into Next one on my stack is actually the resolution affirming Jackson Public Schools is a welcoming district for all students. Um, so I reviewed the resolution. Um, okay. My my review as a lawyer for starters that there is no such thing as a a welcoming district. um the resolution um when I review it, regardless of one's opinion on this issue, there is no way to register as a welcoming district. Calling yourself a welcoming district does not afford any legal protection to any of your students or the residents of this district um that they do not already have. Um, there is no shield for any of the residents of this district because they're attending a welcoming district. I can't, like I said, register or become one under any

035governmental authority from a federal, state, or even local level. And so the district, the the resolution is really just frankly the board adopting a a stance on a current issue that uh is a hot button item at this point in time. And so to adopt it, I don't know, aside from making some of the residents and and staff and potentially students feel good. I don't know that it really accomplishes much. And so we talked a little bit and I apologize because I kind of as the lawyer in me likes this expression, the juice being worth the squeeze. There isn't really a lot of juice here. Um and when I look at it next to determine what is the potential squeeze there, there's a lot um for instance and you know first of all you have

036a resolution and I I shared this with Shelanda that whether we'd like to admit it or not probably doesn't have the support of the of at least some of your staff or at least some of the residents living within this district and sending students to your schools. Um, that's a problem because the district the the resolution directs the superintendent because while it's just a resolution, it actually directs the superintendent to develop a plan that may violate federal obstruction laws with respect to the work being done by ICE. um including in the last resolution, actually the next to last resolution, the plan needs to include partnerships with community organizations to provide resources and support to students and families. Additionally, the plan will include procedures for notifying families about ICE efforts to gain information about students and

037families. And so I read that to mean if if an immigration agent shows up to the district asking questions about the one of the families in the district that we're actually having a plan that's going to have procedures in place for notifying families about those efforts. And I mean in light of many of the things going on in this country right now, including frankly state judges being arrested, I would not be issuing a resolution that directs my staff to notify families that ICE is here asking questions about them because you're putting your staff in a position where they are potentially in legal peril. And that is in my mind not at all a wise course of action. Um I and since it creates you know a potential for you know extensive what I mean what

038are we frankly going to do if one of your staff members notifies ICE of this issue of an issue they think exists within the district. I certainly don't think we can take an adverse employment action based on that. I think that this is a a pool that the district shouldn't swim in. Um, and quite frankly, like I said, I feel like it's a feel-good resolution. I'm I'm personally not aware of an ICE agent presenting him or herself at any K through2 school district in the entire state of Michigan. But if they show up at a Jackson Public Schools football game, I don't recommend that we have staff and students running around the stadium notifying any family who may not want to come into contact with an ICE agent that they should run. Seems like a

039bad course of action. Brendan, real quick, do you mind if I interrupt with regards to the football game scenario? Because I know that you and I have specifically talked about this. So, I just want to share this kind of make certain that I everybody gets the same information. Any law enforcement agent shows up at pick your school. Anybody who buys a ticket can attend. Well, if you if they show up during the school day, we we restrict access to the school during the school day. And and any law enforcement officer, I don't care where you're from, that wants to see a a student, we have very specific requirements for that to happen. Um, but I don't have those same protections at a public event. Um, in my opinion, like you said, if they buy a

040ticket, they come in the door. Um, and whether that's a football game or a basketball game. So, at at at those event type spaces, our practice and our policy does not look the same and and and it can't look the same. And I I'm concerned again about mixed messages and I' I've shared some of that here, but I wanted to make certain that if you could cover that difference between operational business of our local buildings and then what it looks like during community event, if you will. So I mean it's a difficult time for me because I'm often asked to come app on issues and you know the opinion of the lawyer in me sometimes different than the person in me but from that perspective I think that creates a lot of potential problems for

041particularly your staff. Um, and I don't think the resolution, like I said, affords any real benefit to the residents and students of your district other than hearing that the board is supportive of them, which frankly, it's always better to feel supported than it is to be told you're supported. Go ahead. In your expert legal opinion, do you think that we already are a welcoming district? What is a welcoming district? I don't know. You just you uh said no, there's no such I feel pretty welcome at the moment. You don't think that part of the issue there is a thing as a welcoming district is what you let off with. I do not think there is such a thing in the law as a welcoming district. Fair. I think you know some days I come here

042and I feel more welcome than others. But uh I do know there is no statute that affords a process for you to become a welcome district. There is no such thing. Um that's what I would say. All right, Marilyn. So um the policy is written. I um I just was concerned it could be misconstrued that we were willing to break the law and it's really I thought it was just outside of our scope of authority. So as written I I just um there were just a lot of things that I disagreed with and I thought that were wrong and that we really couldn't comply with that we would have to put these all of that in everyone's language that they spoke at home and my goodness. And we really do have things in place. We

043have um emergency operating procedures that all the teachers and staff know about. And so there's a lot of protections already um baked into the cake in our system. So thank you for coming and explaining more. Anything else? We can move to the next. We can move to the next place. All right. Thank you. Next is the student representative policy. Um, so I reviewed this policy. Um, you know, I think it's a a a the intent of the policy is solid. I mean I I think that there is a movement to providing a larger voice to student populations both K through 12 and and in the I have a couple of colleges and universities that I represent. Um the differences in in how you do it. Um, what I don't particularly care for about this policy

044is there are a number of bylaws that exist within the board again to ensure compliance. Um, and there are statutes that discuss what is required to be a member of the board of education. Um, some of those policies are are there. They have things like um you know to be a member of the Jackson Public Schools Board of Education, you have to be a registered voter within within the district. Uh the student may or most likely may not be um in order to be a member of the board of education of Jackson Public Schools, you have to be elected um to the board by the residents of the district. this student would not be. And so to thirdly, there is nothing in the revised school code or in your own bylaws um that contemplates the

045existence of a non- voting member um of the board of education. Um, and so again, I think we're through bylaws creating something that doesn't have weight within the law. And having said all that, I don't like the idea of the student representative being a a non voting member of the board and having a seat at the table because what we've really done is we've afforded um a member of this community that has a voice um a larger seat at the table than what other non-elected members and and stakeholders in this community have. Um, and so I think that concept is not one that legally I would get behind. What I have seen done that that works well in my opinion is the the concept of this applied a little a little differently. Um, I do

046think it's wise for your student government organization to have a student representative to the board. I do think it's wise for the board to communicate with that student representative who can be elected by student government advancement of the board's agenda and the items that may be discussed at that board meeting. Um, and this is actually done by a number of my clients and particularly in the postk through 12 setting with everything from labor organizations to student organizations. That student representative uh is afforded a space on the agenda at each board meeting separate from public comment where they are given an opportunity to address the board. They discuss things going on within student government. Let me tell you all about what we as student government are doing here at Jackson Public Schools. Let me talk to

047you for five minutes about what issues we see in the buildings every day that the student government organization has asked me to bring to your attention. Um, you know, let me talk to you about some of the concerns that we as a student organization have with the agenda items that are in front of you today. They present the board with those issues. and go back to the public but the the rest but they are afforded what I would [Music] call more than a than a public comment but they are not members of the board non- voting members of the board they're not offered the opportunity to comment on board related issues at the table the way board members are but their voices are seen their voices are heard they're they're in the agenda so they're

048treated with a a level of importance that every board meeting the board would like to hear from those individuals. That's where I've seen a program like this work and work well. Um I've never been associated with a a student taking a seat as a non- voting member of the board. Um but you know each week somewhere in the agenda there's a slot where the board makes time to hear from that student representative separate and distinct from just anybody who shows up and fills out the card and the student government presents their authorized representative to do that. That's how I've seen it work well. if you want to move forward with a program like that that I have no legal issue with questions anything like that. So just out of curiosity in your experience do you

049see this as a back and forth conversation different than citizens requesting to address the board? Yes. Because in a public comment setting the board is generally directed not to engage in the public comment section. This is different. I mean, in my mind, this is the board creating an agenda item and allocating five minutes at each board meeting to hear and speak to a representative of the student government about whatever issues it is they bring forward. Um, and so I mean, an exchange like this can happen provided you feel it's productive and you want to ask a question or you want to make a comment or or whatever to that student's piece. And that's how that transpires. And again, I don't I don't run the district. Just you guys do. I'm just kind of telling you

050how I've seen this work productively versus what I see here, which is a little different. I will say I do know of a district where there was a student representative and he now is of age and has been ran a successful campaign and he's a board member. So I hear what you're saying and I appreciate your opinion. I do find value in youth voice. I I do and I think you know allowing them the opportunity to talk early and to be immersed in the dynamics even without having a vote there's value in that. That's my opinion. Hey that's all mine is is an opinion. I just um Brendan thanks for sharing. Um, I I was a student rep at uh Michigan State University back in 2002. I got elected and what you just said is

051the right way to do it. that of course I got elected by everybody all the students in the in the campus not just the student body but what you suggested from the student government elected by the student uh whoever is a committee member and then let them come up here and discuss I think that's the right way to do it um I strongly believe that's the only way to do it um when it comes to legalities I think that's a great idea. We would have to um flesh out like what that selection criteria looks like. Well, the students, right? Well, someone we would have to have someone that would determine who is going to be that representative for coming to that meeting. And then I if they're going to have a standing Yeah. If they're

052My suggestion would be that the student government determines who that person is. Correct. Could they would you know every year the students I assume uh go through the student government process. There's a student council that is formed. I think that student council selects a representative to to be the representative to the board. And essentially certainly the superintendent has to approve that person. Okay. but absent some compelling reason why they shouldn't be selected, the students choice should be selected. Um, and they're given a voice but not a seat, I guess, is what I is how I would see that happening. But okay, any other questions, concerns you want to add to this conversation? All right. Yes, I do. Go ahead. Right. Um, as an attorney, um, I'm sure your opinion is that words have value and

053the, um, language that we use in these policies, as we just talked about in the therapy dog policy, uh, have value and and meaning. Mhm. Uh with respect to this policy specifically um which uh to to pause as we reiterated last time uh we had a discussion about student involvement on the board. Uh there seemed to be some that wanted to have a public uh appointment process where we created an application and this board chose uh who we wanted that may not even be part of student government. Um and then there was a discussion um that was had that like maybe we should just go to the student councils. That's what I I think had originally said like we should just go to them. The board should go to them. we should invite them to

054come to us. The policy that uh you've referenced is what uh my best attempt to uh merge the two together into some sort of compromise where we have participation from a design that speaks on behalf of the student body that is not selected by us but selected by that student government. Uh that can change uh their terms are a year. So in the cycle of that we all have here on the board, we'll see numerous students coming through. Uh the policy also provides for alternates. Um I understand um you know there are some things that we can talk about in terms of student uh the rights and responsibilities of that student. Uh and we can debate those in more detail when we when we talk about the policy. But as per your um comments specifically

055about the requirements of a board and and forgive me, this is all I uh reread the policy as fast as I could. Um, and I'm sure that there are other uh uh changes that can and should be made, but in terms of your specific uh comments about a non- voting member as a student being a actual member of the board and not meeting the qualifications of residency of um uh registering to vote. If um the selection and term clause one, the student the Jackson High School student government, it says Jackson High student high school student government shall select a student representative to serve on the Jackson Public Schools Board of Education. If on is changed to with, does that matter? Does that does that link does that does that satisfy because like no I don't

056think it talks about I don't think nor do I think that um you know I think there's the ability of the board to provide the student body um with a voice to do a better job of hearing from the student body. I don't think there's the ability of the board to elevate that particular student to something more than than to anything that's akin to the board itself. I mean, oh c certainly we could certainly we could elevate a student uh and ask them to to go sit over there and and report to us. Um but your specific initial concern was that we would be inserting them as a member of the board of education. Right. Well, so if we just say we want someone to serve with us, how would that be any different than

057they serve on the board or with you? I mean, let me give you an example. Let's say that uh they're going to serve with you. Yeah. they you set up a little bit longer table and provide them with a seat down here next to Miss Everall or and an issue comes before the board, whatever that issue might be, the board is deliberating on that issue and that individual is not going to get to vote, but they get to sit there as a member of the community during the board meeting and participate with the board in the discussion of that issue. and potentially have the opportunity to impact the outcome of that vote on that particular issue. You have elevated someone who's not a voter member of this c of this district, who is not elected

058to this district, and you've afforded them a seat and a voice that other members of the community do not have. Is that is that a legal issue or like a political issue? in my mind to some extent it's a legal issue. Uh nobody else in the community gets the opportunity to participate in the board's deliberation and also is it part of uh and and other than board members and so from my perspective it's that I mean I I'm not there is nothing in the law that affords for non- voting membership or or the like. And so from a from a lawyer's perspective, I I see that as a potential pitfall regardless of whether they're up there with you on the board as a non- voting member or what they are, you've brought them forward and

059afforded them a seat that the law does not provide for. Well, the law in a similar sense, if I wanted to create a um principal policy and I wanted to create a row of tables and have all of our principles sit here so that we can gather their input, would you have the similar concerns that the principles or a representative of the principles uh we would be unduly elevating being a member of the community and a member of the educational ecosystem uh in a spot like that. I mean, and there's there's no legal there's no legal like I mean I mean my way I would see that working let's say you were going to develop a policy and we were interested in hearing but legally there's no but but legally there's no statute that says

060that we can do that. No, because Okay, but this is how what you're saying about the students. Yeah, there's no students that says you can elevate a student to that position either. I mean, let me give you this real world example of what you're talking about. Yeah. Let's assume you were going to develop such a policy and you said, you know, I'm curious to hear from the Jackson Public Schools Administrators association about what they think about this potential policy. And so the administrator's association decides, you know, we're going to send a representative to the board to talk to them about this policy. The way you would do it is the the way we're doing it right now. You would stick that administrator's association representative on the agenda. You would say, "We're going to have this

061discussion during the meeting with a representative of the administrators association." Would sit at this table. Yeah. You would afford them the opportunity to communicate with the board just like I am right now. Field questions, answer questions, express their opinion. They wouldn't sit up there, right? and they wouldn't have a comment on the outcome of your vote on that policy, just the opportunity to express their thoughts and their opinions and to answer questions about the policy. So with this policy, you're saying that you're more comfortable with instead of a student sitting there or there that this same policy and the solicitation of the feedback from a student and or principal if we had a similar policy or principal that they should sit there and give that feedback. Yes. And that would be appropriate. Right. And I

062don't even think you need a policy for that. I mean, frankly, the superintendent and the board control the agenda. If you'd like to set time to hear from a student representative, you just put it in. Just have that as a standing agenda, right? I don't think the board needs a kind if if we if we can do that and we can set time on the agenda then for commentary from a student and let's say that we give that student uh some of the like responsibilities for reporting that's outlined in this policy. um then purely and and they can have that time on the agenda similar to let's say the superintendent's report or previously when we had reports from all of the other administrators over here. Yes. Then it purely becomes a legal concern of yours

063of where they're seated in the room. Not not that where they're seated. I don't care if they're seated over there or they're seated here. it's that they're not a member. We're not calling them a member of the board, voting or otherwise, right? They're just afforded an opportunity to be heard. In my mind, that is not a legal issue. What you're describing when you have this policy where you're elevating someone to be a non- voting member of the board, you're offering them time to speak during board deliberations, which it talks about here. They're attending other events for board including I I see them you talking about them attending policy meetings of the board. Um, in my mind, that's a mistake. They're they're that's a time for board members to to frankly deliberate on specific issues and

064um they can attend like any member of the public does when you make that public, but but to elevate them to a point where the voice is larger than you're affording to other people, I think is a is a potential problem. And and so I I hear that. Um legally, do you believe that there are thing there are language changes within this policy that we can make uh to satisfy and we don't have to do it tonight. uh but to satisfy the intent of this policy to have student representation um and to make that individual through this selection process a contributor collaborator with the board whatever language we see fit um and that makes legal sense but not to be necessarily a member of the board. I guess it depends on what you think that

065looks like. Well, I think it should look like this. But um if you're saying that legally um we shouldn't have a non- voting member and it should be uh we should change that language then I think legally I would look to you um and maybe we can work outside of this meeting to figure out what those language changes should be uh to refine the policy then. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, yes, I I'm happy to look at it again. I just my concerns are there are there's a process and certain requirements you're required to meet to have a voice as a board member that these students are not going to meet. And there's a role that a board member plays that the student doesn't play. And I think there's value in providing a real voice

066to a student having a representative affording them time in front of the board. Um my concern is and you know the more I I think about the role if if there is an issue that's important to me as a resident of this district and the board is up at that table deliberating on that issue and I'm not afforded an opportunity to participate in those deliberations but a non-elected student that you've chosen to elevate is I think that's a problem. And and is there a potential concern on conflict of interest since he's a student here will be making a lot of policies that affect both students? I mean, sure, especially if they're at that table, you know, if the student sits here and during their five or 10 minutes of agenda time wants to articulate a

067policy change or an issue that they think the board needs to take up or address. That's different. And and I think there's value in that. And I I've se I've seen that done other places and done well. Like I said, I don't and I I don't frankly know how much value it is to to have them participating there versus just coming and saying look you have an agenda item in front of you tonight and I want to talk about it because as a student organization this is what we think and to engage in a back and forth with you as a board like I am now on that particular issue and it happens early like this is before you've taken action and their voices are heard, but when it comes time for the board to

068do board work, the elected board members are the ones doing it. That's I mean that's I I understand it may not meet um everything every board member wants it to meet, but that's I guess that's just the way I see it. Anything else? So, the policy is written. I didn't care for it. It seemed like it was um not enough checks and balances. It seemed like we were opening Pandora's box. I wanted more oversight, but I love what you suggested. That just makes perfect sense. Um and then we would get to hear the students, you know, and I think it's all about the optics. Like Jeff Beal will always say, it's about optics and we are elected officials. We represent our taxpayers. And I think I could see that there there would be some uh

069resentment. Uhuh. So, thank you for that um clarification. We're not always going to be sitting here. Now was a time for us to give our youth that opportunity. Our education system is facing unknown variables. I strongly support youth representation. So, I hope that the board will take that into consideration. All right. Anything else for me on that issue? All right. Next issue is the equity policy. Um, my legal opinion on the equity policy is that you have an executive order that has been entered by the presidential administration, specifically President Trump, that directs federal government and those receiving federal funds to eliminate diversity, equity, and inclusion programming. Um, the order has been broadly drafted and in my experience even more broadly applied. Uh predictably it has been challenged. Um currently there is no nationwide injunction preventing

070its enforcement. The only court of appeals that has been asked to rule on it at a federal level is the fourth circuit who has lifted the previously entered stay. Uh most recently, the District of Columbia denied an injunction on May 2nd relative to the DEI orders entered by President Trump. Um they are valid. And when you when you say the orders, are you talking about the dear colleague letter? No, I'm talking about the DEI executive orders signed by President Trump on January 20th. As a result, the Department of Education has issued guidance on its position relative to diversity, equity, and inclusion programs, specifically through at least initially the dear colleague letter that was just referenced by board member Dobby's. In that dear colleague letter, the Department of Education takes the position that diversity, equity, and

071inclusion programs um are a violation of federal civil rights law. and they have directed uh academic institutions to come into compliance within a specified period by eliminating diversity, equity, and inclusion programs. Um that process moved faster at the college and university setting than it did at the K through2 setting. But in the recent past, the administration has directed departments of education at the state level around the country to certify compliance with the most recent communications from the department of education. And they have directed state education departments, including Michigan's to ensure that local districts have certified compliance with diversity, equity, inclusion programs being eliminated. Um, at some point, in my opinion, well, legally, the Department of Education, like other federal organizations, is permitted to seek um certification of compliance with federal law as a condition of

072receiving federal funds. Um, they have done that here. During that directive that where we were asked to seek compliance, there is reference to the False Claims Act um where they essentially threaten that in the event they receive a certification from someone that is false and that the district or the organization is not in compliance with federal civil rights law as the Department of Education interprets it. um that you subject yourself to potential liability under the federal False Claims Act which carries with it extensive civil penalties. Um, the Department of Education and I I shared this wi with board member Hunt has created a portal called the end DEI portal within the Department of Education where you can log on to the Department of Education's website and report institutions that you believe are not in compliance.

073Um, when I review the policy that we currently have in place, which was adopted by the board, um, in October of 2024, it is a policy that I do not believe is in compliance with the executive order or the directives issued by the Department of Education. Um, I do not believe that anyone on behalf of this district could submit a certification if required to do so. um to the Department of Education without subjecting themselves to potential problems. um spec I mean there's some things in the policy obviously it's a diversity equity and inclusion policy but there are some things in the policy that I I've had specific interaction with such as letter G where the district is going to provide and require staff participation in diversity equity and inclusion training that is specifically articulated is

074something we cannot do um without falling out of compliance Uh, I think that you run the risk of potential discrimination complaints filed with the Department of Education if we require our staff to participate in such programming. I have represented colleges and university programs where we are currently defending complaints at the Department of Education surrounding our requirements that college level students participate in diversity, equity, and inclusion programming within our academic curriculum. Uh the higher learning commission has been directed to remove those training programs from graduation requirements. Um and my concern is that if we continue to maintain that policy, we will not be in a position to certify and we will put ourselves in a position where federal funding is at risk and we receive millions of dollars a year in federal funding. Um, it's not

075a pleasant topic. I've been asked to talk about it with various different boards. It's difficult, but the legal analysis, frankly, at least to date, is not complicated. Um, the orders have been entered. Department of Education is taking the approach that it's taking. It has interpreted DEI programming to be a violation of federal civil rights law. It has directed that they be removed and it has stated that if you're not willing to certify compliance, you may not receive federal funding in the future. And they have made good on that promise on an almost daily basis across the United States. They will eventually make it this far down the educational ladder. And I my council would be that we comply with the law until we're and the executive order and the requirements of Department of Education which

076we do fall under until such time as we're [Music] told the law is unconstitutional or otherwise uninforceable which we have not been because we are in the Eastern District of Michigan which has not rendered such an opinion. We are in the sixth circuit of the United States which has not rendered such an opinion and the United States Supreme Court has not rendered such an opinion. And so as a lawyer, as difficult as the analysis is, I do not believe this policy is one that can be maintained if it is the intent of this district to comply with the directives of the administration and the guidance of the Department of Education. Questions? Trusty dough base. Um, what's illegal? Um, I'm sorry. Let me find it. What's an illegal DEI practice? Unfortunately, at this point in time,

077that's been the lynch pin of most of the most of the litigation is there's been nothing articulated by the Department of Education or the federal government as to what constitutes an illegal DEI practice. Gotcha. And so, go ahead. So, so merely having a DEI program uh is a generalization of the the letters that we've received. um page three of the um reminder of legal obligations undertaken in exchange for receiving federal financial assistance and request for certification under title six. Um this is like the presumptive dated April 3rd, the presumptive certification letter that uh someone would have to sign to indicate compliance. Um, page three says after all this, you know, crap about um the interpretation of diversity meaning uh discrimination and indicates that uh given the text of title six and insuranceances, you have already

078been given any violation of title six, including the use of de uh diversity, equity, inclusion programs to advantage one's race over another which would be even if we didn't have this policy a violation of title six right likely yes right um is impermissible the use of certain DEI practices can violate federal law that's the next sentence and then the continued use of illegal DEI practices may subject the individual entity using such practices to serious consequences including um most of the threats that you've that you've identified. Um so I guess my point is there is a um a differentiation between just having DEI programs which is a loaded you know political term I can understand and the illegal um use of those programs to advantage one race over another um which I can understand um that

079that we don't do and are not proposing to do under whether we have uh equity policy or we don't have an equity policy. Okay. So I I understand where you're coming from on this and I I and I and if I was asked Yeah. by the district to defend the district in the event that the federal government was to end federal funding as a result of our policy. Yeah, that would be my position is that we're not engaged in any illegal DEI practice. I I totally understand the liability and the um the way in which uh current court cases are are going and being litigated by um the the Trump administration um in the courts to uh uh construe anything that could be close to diversity, equity, inclusion equity policies as discriminatory practices in their

080uh political viewpoint and and the um I think the the calculation is um one on timing and you know two on funding as well I you know and so because there's not directives what I can do is attempt to review items that the Department of Education say are specific problems, items that are specifically called out within the executive order. And when I look at your policy, you look at a the district shall review practices, procedures, and programs to ensure they are unbiased and non-discriminatory. The district shall use all available data disagregated by race, ethnicity, language, ability, gender identity, gender expression, sexual orientation, socio and economic ground and mobility to inform district decisionm use of such data has been specifically articulated as something that is in violation of the executive order and the directives of the

081department of education. looking farther down. And I'm not saying they're right, but that is the position that the Department of Education and the federal government has taken to date to use that data in your decision-making process they've articulated is a violation. looking at, and these are just things that I highlighted, um, allocating resources and prioritizing initiatives that promote equity, encourage the hiring of qualified instructional staff, and ensure equitable availability to staff, and provide access to world-class facilities and support services, which I view as us having the the position that we would like to allocate resources and hire hire qualified instructional staff in a method that fosters diversity. Frankly, I'll just flat tell you personally probably wise. Legally, probably a violation of that order. The district shall select and implement culturally responsive instructional materials while addressing

082or eliminating culturally biased curriculum and assessments to ensure equitable outcomes. Curriculum and DEI incentive contained within curriculum is one of the things that they have specifically targeted postsecondary institutions for professional development opportunities where we're requiring staff or students to participate in diversity, equity, and inclusion programming and training has been specifically articulated as something we're not supposed to be doing. And so whether or not I'm successful in defending the district on the idea that that our policy doesn't is an illegal DEI. I don't know. But I know what the position has been of the Department of Education in this administration as to what constitutes a violation. And many of the things we are specifically articulating in our policy are those things that they've targeted. And so my feeling is again I'm not a decision maker of

083this board but I would be unwilling to submit a certification myself with this policy in place. So, Brendan, um, as you know, schools seek guidance from multiple law firms throughout the state, and I've got guidance from Trun as well. Um, and I I just want to make certain that I read because we faced this certification conversation in April and the first option was don't sign. And obviously the what Trun would suggest is this. And I guess I' I'd like very clearly to hear a a little bit weighing the risk created by the vagueness of the US Department of Ed's proposed certification form in context of the liability under the False Claims Act, the pending litigation against US Department of Ed that may result in preliminary injunction, and the fact that we do not know whether

084Dr. Rice's April 10th letter will satisfy the US Department of A certification requirement. The LEA may adopt a wait and see approach. If your board is considering not signing the certification, please contact legal counsel uh to assess the possible consequences to federal funding. And I think that's the piece that that Trun is is highlighting. And then I want to give the conclusion because this is Trun's piece. I want to it's not necessarily ours. So, I'll make sure we get this this across. All public schools in Michigan are required to comply with Title Six of the Civil Rights Act. There is no issue with certifying that your school district complies with federal law. The risk of course is signing a certification that leaves the meaning of compliance and this is the key phrase for me open

085to the interpretation of the US Department of Education and private citizens. I don't know that it really is going to be our intent on trial. It's going to be the interpretation. We're going to be subject to the interpretation of the current administration and the current US Department of Education. And I think that's the challenge that that I would face if I were to try to attempt to sign certification or not. And I think we if you could just speak to just the funding and what that last piece means for us. Okay. Um I think I understand what you're asking. I mean from my perspective that's a that letter says a lot without providing any real guidance. Um, which is typical. Um, I mean, I can I could stand up here and fuddle around. I feel

086like if you don't want your federal funding at risk, it's pretty easy to figure out how to fall into compliance and then you can change or adapt if if the landscape changes. Um if we certify that we are compliance with in with federal law and first and the federal government comes down and says and you know let me start by saying this is my take on compliance certification in the future. It's very easy for the administration to shut off funds to districts, colleges, or universities who have not submitted the required certification and simply taking the approach that one of the easiest ways that I can cut off funding, which frankly probably is what they want to do anyway, is to say anyone who hasn't submitted that certification doesn't get another dollar until I get it.

087Because that's very easy to do. And then if I have certified that I am in compliance and ultimately department of education says, "Hey, we received a complaint through our NDEI portal from frankly one of your staff members who says they're still being required to participate in DEI training." And uh they also say you still have a diversity, equity, and inclusion policy that the board has adopted that hasn't been rescended. And as a result, uh, we're going to launch an investigation. We're going to come in and talk and we make a determination that you've received $2 million of federal funding in the form of grants and assistance since submitting that certification. The False Claim Act subjects whoever submitted that certification if the Department of Education or the federal government is ultimately successful in determining or proving

088that you have engaged in that behavior to tribal damages plus attorney fees civily. Um, and the Department of Justice would be the person pursuing it at the direction of the administration. It's a huge potential for liability for whoever is it is that certifies that on behalf of the district and maybe you know for because to me it would be the district that would be subjected to it but potentially even the individual because you've individually made that certification. I think there's a lot of liability being taken on by the person who signs that certification and and I'm candidly I'm saying that as someone who has submitted a certification to the Department of Education on behalf of a client certifying a client's compliance with with the order. I mean, I have sent a certification to the Department

089of Ed, and I did that because I was confident my client had engaged in efforts to ensure compliance. Thank you. Any further discussion on the equity policy? Thank you, Brendan. All right. appreciate your your opinion on these policies. Wish you luck. Difficult times. Anything else before I leave? I'll stick around for obviously. Thank you, Brenda. May both of them. We're going to move to agenda item number six, the consent agenda. Thank you. We have a motion. We have a support. Any deliberation on the consent agenda? Hearing none. All those in favor? I. Any opposed? Thank you. Motion carries. Agenda item number seven, citizens requesting to address the board. We have one. If there's any others, Nicholas Thirststein. Thank you. Good evening. My name is Nicholas Thirstston. I live here in Jackson, Michigan, JPS and Jackson

090College alumni, one of the um co-founders of the Jackson College Student Government Association. Um, I wanted to talk a bit about some of the policies that you guys have considered in the past and are currently uh weighing on. Um, recently Leticia Alberan attended one of your meetings to promote the um, welcoming district policy that would instruct staff to contact families and local businesses to essentially draft them to, I guess, fight against the police or whatever. Well, at least Laticia Albrin, she introduced herself as a nonprofit organization um director or developer, but she was also the city of Jackson's um DEI assist administrative assistant and is on the Jackson's DEI racial equity commission board alongside Kesh Hamilton. That's where that policy comes from. If you look at the city of Jackson's DEI department um racial equity

091commission board agenda, JPS schools is targeted and part of their agenda. So that's that is a DEI policy. It is illegal. Uh it's just plain wrong and you could put your students in harm way and not be fully uh informed on what decisions are being made by ICE. One of the biggest problems that's happened in the last uh few years, but it's been an ongoing problem for a long time, is fake families entering the US with uh people who may be members of a cartel or gang pretending to be parents and they have a child that does not belong to them. Uh they apply for assistance programs, they go to food pantries, all this other sort of stuff. They get a special status as a family and uh public perception as a family, but it's

092not true. So when the DNA test is done determines that the people are probably not married couple and the child whoever's child they have whether they bought this person or somehow adopted them maybe from other cartel members who could have become pregnant through prostitution or maybe um other debts or just kidnapped the kid brought him to the US. Um, once those things are determined, it's somebody's job at these ICE detention centers to try to find the real family of that child and help them get back home safely. I can't imagine uh why people would do such a thing. It's terrible that it's happening, but it is happening in USA. Can't happen in Jackson. Could happen here at JPS. You never really know. Um, I also I was friends with somebody, a close friend with somebody

093who was deported um in high school. He got caught up with the wrong crowd and eventually he was arrested um for uh illegal activity. He was caught with drugs in a vehicle car. He had um a gun I think as well and he was beating his wife on the side of the road. He was deported back to Mexico rightfully. So the system can work and it should work and I don't think anybody up here should impinge that system uh from working. Also, the state of Michigan banned affirmative action programs back in 2006. The voters voted to restrict schools, colleges, universities, public uh K through2 school districts, also local units of government from forming affirmative action style proh policies or practices and departments. So, the city of Jackson's currently in violation of the state law. Uh

094board members up here, when you do propose those things, you are also violating the state law. and um probably not like any of you care. Uh Sean, I want to say thank you for finally uh catching up on your five years of uh past uh reports that you've been missing as a board member and paying your fines for receiving illegal donations. Uh it's about time that family has been taken care of and something that people up here have been worried about for a long time in Jackson. I would say stop do the right thing for the people that live here and stop trying to um bring up a dead issue. Let the issue die. Move forward the right way. Respect the civil rights laws that we do have. Uh respect the laws that um uh

095regulate local governments units like school boards, colleges, uh city councils, boards and commissions and things like that. It's in the best interest of all their customers. Um I know India uh so here from India as a US resident right US citizen you love it here and I think you do a great job in your work India instituted a affirmative action style practice to cover like three 3,000 cast systems or something right and it's right it's it's impressive that they have tried but it didn't solve all the problems there right and so you're here now as an American citizen trying to give back to the people that live here I think you're doing the right thing you are proud of the people that you serve. You're proud of your customers and I think that you're doing

096a good job and that if the board continues on these policies, they could jeopardize your legal status in the US and uh potentially derail the progress that you're making in committing to the community. Thank you so much. Thank you, Nicholas. William Hastings, please. Uh good evening board. Um it was very uh enlightening to hear from Mr. Beer regarding all of these uh issues at hand and um they all are hot button issues to some degree or other. So, I think he weighed in pretty clearly and unequivocally about the uh fundamental legality of DI programs in public education in the year 2025. Um I think even putting that aside, one thing I've spoken out on for some time is well, this district has been on a self-described DEI journey since 2018. And during that time, there

097has been a steady decline in reading proficiency, math proficiency, college readiness. And right now, there is what I would call a full full-blown crisis in chronic absenteeism. We have a brand new school, Cascades, built from the the ground up with money raised uh during the last the the the the building millillage from uh 2018 and 5 to 11 year old kids K through five and 51% of those kids are missing approximately 37 days unexcused of school every year. and and I don't think some of the efforts that the district has been making have have really have really been addressing that. I think some of these other issues kind of act as a distraction. So, both of my kids went to Paragon Charter Academy, grades K through eight. And it kind of thinking about that, it

098brought to mind um diversity is sort of a broad term that's usually narrow narrowly interpreted to mean um you know, white kids, black kids, brown kids, Asian kids, that sort of thing. Um but I think attending um or being a Paragon parent uh there's a really in addition to yes racial diversity but there's really a broad economic diversity that was at Paragon and I would say that well there were people from kind of all over the economic spectrum at Paragon it did trend towards a lot of poor working poor middle class just kind of hanging on to the middle class by the you know skin of their teeth and they had tremendous success um going by their their their proficiency scores and they they did not and do not employ uh DEI. So I think

099when we're looking at these issues that are all dog us in public education and concerns about outcomes and that kind of thing there's always a way forward. So, um, usually, uh, when you talk about the state of Miss Mississippi and public policy, it's sort of as a as a, uh, punchline to a joke. It's the most backwards. It has the worst schools. It is the worst this and the worst that. Well, I don't know if you guys have been paying attention, but there, but two states that have been in the news a great deal lately in the last few years in the education world in public education are Louisiana and Mississippi. And both of these schools have at the state level have dedicated themselves to doing intensive intensive intervention for early education especially especially for

100reading and especially um as I'm sure all you guys know and most people coming toward meetings know that uh uh being proficient reading proficient at grade three is extremely important and extremely predictive of future outcomes. And if you look at Mississippi, they went, remember, it's it's a punchline. It's a bad joke. It's an embarrassment of the country and so forth. They went from the 49th, the second to worst school system in the United States of America. They went from 49th to 20th. 49th to 20th in a matter of a few years. And uh Louisiana, which is also, you know, not looked upon as being a trailblazer in education, they've also made great strides in doing it. So there is a way. There is a way forward. There's opportunities everywhere. There's exciting things being done in

101education everywhere. So, so thank you, Mr. Beer, and thanks board. Thank you, Mr. Hastings. At this time, the board um is going to go into close session. Madam chair, I move that the board go into close session for the purpose of discussing the superintendent's contract and addendum. All right, have a motion and support. All those in favor? I. Any oppose? Motion carries. Madame President, I move that we uh return to open session. All right. We So we do we have a support to return to open session? Support. All those Any deliberation? All those in favor? I. Any opposed? Motion carries. We are back in session. Madame President. Yes. Oh, I'm sorry. This is a action item. We will It's okay. Yeah. We will begin at discussion item number nine on the agenda. Jeff. All right.

102Um with we've already spent a considerable amount of time tonight talking broadly about the four policies that are out there um that were tabled. And in my opinion, I I I still believe we are going to run into a conversation about the equity policy sooner or later. I think that our funding is not inconsiderate. It's $4 million in title funding and $4.5 million in money that we use to feed children. And in my opinion, I don't think that's anything that this board can can or should risk. Now, there's the wait and see approach. Um, I don't know that Brendan would advise that and and candidly, I don't know that I would advise that, but that's as far as I can go on that policy. If the board wishes to to decide what to do, I

103would recommend that we I'm a pull the band-aid off person. So, that's my opinion on that one. And then I believe the other three policies all still need at least more work or I I would need the board to figure out, you know, and maybe what you want to do is just simply say, I'd like to make a motion on a given policy or something along those lines and let's just kind of go through those four and get them situated so that moving forward the board has a plan for those four. That's that's kind of my thoughts. Trusty Dies. Thank you, Madam President. Um I have some comments for all of them. Uh I'll start with a motion for the equity policy. I think that there's um a lot to consider, a lot of materials

104that we have been delivered and then a lot of discussion today. Um, as I'd like some more time to review that and uh carefully weigh uh the conversations that we've had here tonight. So, I'd move to table um consideration of the equity policy um right now. Support motion and support. Any deliberation? Derek, can you just clarify? Are you talking all four policies or the one? Uh just the equity policy. I have some I think maybe some other actions based on the feedback on the student and animal stuff and then an action I would propose on the welcoming district thing. Can you repeat your motion just to table it? To table? Yeah. The decision Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Any discussion? All those in favor? I. Any opposed? One opposed. Sir, you got that. Thank you. Only

105thing I'll just remind everybody is at some point we may be pushed on that when certification comes back. I couldn't certify in in April. And you heard the one thing we can't do is please don't direct anyone in the district to certify until we know that person would be individually culpable. Please don't that that's just my thoughts on that piece. Okay. All right. Thank you. Yep. Madam President, um, I would make a motion. I guess I can do these are I think these are both the same. I would move to postpone consideration of the student representative policy and animals on district property policies to give time for the president and vice president to work with legal counsel to amend those policies and bring those back as a revised policy for consideration at our June board

106meeting so that we can um address the specific uh the the policies with those specific legal changes and then evaluate the merits of those policies and then dispose of them how how we so choose to in June the support so postpone motion to postpone we have a animal and student representation then we have a support any deliberation on those two policies specifically all those in favor I I Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you. And the welcoming and affirming. So I think we should just resend that. I have a motion that we just resend that policy. It's not a policy yet. Oh, that we just rework it then or that we You can make a motion to adopted. Let it fail. Let it fail. I make a motion to let it fail. Support without any without

107any action. Like we don't we don't have to take an affirmative action. We just don't take any action on it and just move on to the next item or we could table it and then it would have to be Yeah. Oh, what are you asking? I I'd like to be done with it. I'd like to have it fail. Support again. We have a motion on the floor for and a support. Any discussion? Pressy sharp. Thank you, Madam President. I just I'd like to see this reworked. I think um I respectfully disagree with the squeeze. I I I and maybe I don't understand what the squeeze means, but I think it it doesn't hurt us if we do this in a way that we work with legal representation where we're not putting anybody in a position

108to break the law. It's no harm to tell students that they're welcome. We had an impassion plea from community members to support this resolution and how much it would mean to their community and their families. So, I don't think it's perfect the way that it's written, but I think with revision, it would mean a lot. And I think in a in a school environment, how students feel is really really important to how they do. So, if we care about students, I just it's worth it to make them feel welcome. Even if it's not an official designation, for some people, it's going to mean a lot. Don't we don't we have something like that already in existence that we welcome all students? Well, that's understood. JPS welcomes all students. It's understood. What else you need? The

109intent, my understanding of this resolution is to as a board make a public state our position or acknowledge that we we support anyone that is faced with this um undue stress that comes with the uncertainty. So, did you have any further comment? Okay. Nope, I'm good. All right. I thought we were welcoming all students already. So, okay. Thank you, Simonetti. Um, I have certainly no problem saying that we're a welcoming district. I think we can put it at the top of our agenda every week, every month. I think we can post it on our website. I think we can shout it from the mountain tops, but I am not in favor of writing a document that puts our staff in jeopardy. I think that the legal issues that we need to cover are already covered

110in other policies. Um, and I am not in favor of signing or endorsing a policy that jeopardizes our staff in any way. I'm all about advertising that we're welcoming, but not this way. Thank you, please. Yeah, I would um I guess ask for some clarity on the motion. Um and maybe if we want to um indicate that this is that we are a welcoming district, then we send this back to the policy committee to um have it read as such. Um otherwise, you know, I'm also just happy to um table this indefinitely, especially since the author of the resolution isn't isn't here um for this vote. I think I would be more comfortable in just tableabling it. Um which would then mean it takes an affirmative vote of majority vote of this board to bring

111it off of the table for future consideration. So trusty sh Thank you madam president. Just to clarify I'm also not interested in putting our staff in jeopardy in any way. I don't want that. I just wonder if there's a way that we can reward it to find a middle ground. And I also agree that I think Jackson is welcoming. I just in this certain situation I I what does it hurt us to reiterate when it comes to this particular difficulty that we are we see you. Thank you. All right. We have a motion on the floor. Um, Derek, is this I'd move to amend the motion to refer the resolution back to the policy committee support any as we have a motion and a support. Any discussion for this amended um motion for this resolution

112to go back to policy committee for uh language updates. Motion a second. Support all of We have a motion and we have a support. We Any discussion? If there's no more discussion, all those in favor of the motion I. Any opposed? One opposed. Thank you, Madam President. That was the motion to amend. Now we need to vote on the main motion. The amended motion is now to refer to policy to the policy. Okay. The main motion is to go back to policy. All those in favor? I. Any opposed? One opposed. Motion carries. Action item number 24-25-89 Neola update volume 39 number two second reading adoption Jeff um I'm going try to keep this excuse I'm try to keep this relatively quick we had a number of policies come through um in the spring update Um

113most of it is very legal challenge or uh legal changes. Nothing that's it's all driven by law 100% of it. The obviously the the two that are probably the most entertaining and I say this tongue and cheek if you will is we need to resend policy 2264 which is the new or the the title 9 policy that we adopted in December because that policy was rescended by current administration and we will reinstate um the policy. Make sure I get my numbers correctly. I apologize. Um, thank you. 2266. Marilyn and I just had this conversation earlier today. 2266, which is our old policy dated back to 2020 and which we were operating under. So essentially, we can't operate under the new one. We need to operate under the one we had previous. Uh, so otherwise, you've

114all seen these policies for over a month and I don't know there's a whole lot in here for choices for us. But that's the that's the one that we should all be aware of. Thank you. Uh Mr. Dobies move approval of these policies as present support. We have a motion and a support. Any discussion? Um just clarification. Um Mr. Dobies. Are we looking at both sets 242589 and 242590? I just looked at No, but I'm happy if there's no changes from these as discussion items to move approval of 242589 and 242590. I covered 24 there. If you looked in 24 2589, you see the rescending and the new policy there. I I apologize. It's broken out in a separate line item, but it's all the same set of policies. All right. No more discussion. All

115those in favor? Any opposed? Hearing none. Those Niola updates for 2520 242589 and 242590. Motion carries. 242591 resolution designating ISD by annual election representative. Chef, so we need we actually going to need two pieces on this. We need a resolution to designate uh representative and a second to go out to the ISD and cast the board's vote. In the past, that's been Michelle and myself. uh it would probably be appropriate um to again uh cast uh Sarah so she learns it. I will be happy to go do it since it's there and if you want to assign a third person that would be at the board's discretion. Um and so we need a motion for that. And then we will also need a motion to tell those representatives or direct those representatives who to vote

116for. And there are three candidates um Sherry Hine, Doug Scott, and Erin Slater, um are up for six-year terms. So, if you could please I I suppose I would look for a motion to designate somebody and then a second motion to determine your candidates. I'll make the motion to designate Jeff Bill and Sarah to cast the ballot and then also the second motion well combined with that motion. Yes. Okay. So, the motion to have Jeff and Sarah cast the vote for the ISD ballot support. Support by which one of you? Okay. All right. No, no, no, no. Suba support. All right. Any discussion? All those in favor? I I mot any opposed? Motion carries. I'll also entertain a motion to um for the board to consider um support for Doug Scott and Aaron Slater. Um

117I do I've had interactions with both of them. I did sit with Doug Scott on the United Way board. Um we were on some subcommittees. He does um demonstrate a true commitment to u public service and um being an active involved board member. So, um, that's my support. That's my motion. Motion and support. Any discussion? Um, I would just say that I fully support both those candidates. Aaron Slater has demonstrated countless years of service and support of public education in Jackson County um and leadership uh skills on the ISD board already. These are both incumbents. Um Doug is the HR I don't know supervisor for industrial steel. He's been very instrumental with uh decisions in the career center for the ISD and I think both of their levels of experience um speak volumes for their

118abilities. Yeah. Motion second. Any other discussion? All those in favor? I I Any opposed? Motion carries. Pass those votes. 242592 resolution calling public hearing on proposed 2025 20226 budget. Yeah, Marcus, you get this one. No problem. Every year we're required to have a public hearing on our proposed budget prior to the board approving the budget. So, some of the things we'll be discussing will be the millage rate proposed to be levied at the public hearing and we will recommend adoption of the attached resolution calling for a public hearing here Tuesday, June 17th at 6 pm. Be there or be square. Move approval of the resolution designated June 17th at 6 p.m. in the media center as the date for the public hearing the budget. Support motion and support. Any discussion? Just real quick, the regular

119board meeting will follow immediately after the conclusion of our public hearing. Hearing no further discussion, all those in favor? I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Item 242593. Jeremy Patterson, superintendent contract. Madam President. Yes. I would uh move approval of the negotiated superintendent contract as well as the addendum as um shown and discussed in close session. Motion and support. Any deliberation. Sarah, can we do a roll call for this one, please? Or yeah, vote. Mrs. Amended, yes. Miss Actton, yes. Mr. Ready? Yes. Miss Sharp? Yes. Mr. Doby's Miss Hunt? Yes. Congratulations. [Applause] Motion carries and I just add that it's kind of fitting 93 class of 93 J high second class. Thank you. I'm very excited about this opportunity. I appreciate the board of education and the constituents. Thank you so much. Welcome, Jeremy. All right, agenda

120item number 11, board comments. Anyone have anything that they would like to say? Um, I really appreciate Brendan being here tonight and going through the legal issues with us. I think that was uh very valuable. And um just cut it short and say congratulations, Jeremy. Thank you. So, I just found out that um Jeff won't be at our next board meeting. So, I just want to say congratulations on your retirement and that um thank you so much for your service and thank you for um taking me under your wing when I first was on the board. So, and putting up with all my questions. So, congratulations to Jeremy and good luck on your retirement, but I know you're not retiring. So, I do. Yep. Short and sweet. Congratulations to both of you on your retirement

121and taking a huge job at JPS, Mr. Jeremy. So, good luck. Congratulations to you both. Congratulations to all the seniors who I believe wrapped up their last day last Friday. Um, and congratulations to all the people in classrooms who got them there. Um, it was fun to see them walk through the building and walk through the elementary schools. Just wanted to do a quick shout out to the Parkside Jazz Band. They were at the Jackson Jazz Festival and they rocked the house. I had several very well-informed uh, musicians tell me how good they sounded. They couldn't believe that they were not a high school band. So, shout out to them. Rock on. And um just to everyone in the classroom, hang in there. We're getting there. Uh what you do is important. What you do

122matters. Thank you for what you do. Congratulations, JP. Uh excited to begin your tenure and work with you as the next superintendent. Um lots of excitement, lots of changes and uh good positive energy here and look forward to celebrating with everybody um in the graduations coming up here shortly. And uh to Jeff, uh it's been great working with you. Um you have now reached a much uh deserved uh retirement. I'm sure you're not going to go far and uh you'll continue to help us through the the transition and um just want to thank you for your service to not only um JPS but uh to the broader community as well. Um you know having been uh served in different capacities in the community um you know you've been a a leader and someone who's helped

123lift up the overall community. So, thank you. Congratulations, Jeremy. Welcome aboard. It's I got to get used to you sitting here instead of looking at you over there. So, yes, welcome. Um, Jeff, congratulations on your retirement. Um, I appreciate your service. I've had the opportunity since being the board president to meet with you weekly and we've had a lot of meaningful conversations. Um, you've given me a lot of information that I wouldn't have otherwise had knowledge of. So, thank you for being a leader and enjoy your retirement, enjoy your family, and I'm sure you're going to do great things. Thank you. Um, I'm just going to close with a couple things. I I had this conversation actually earlier today with somebody because I I sit in the superintendent's office. It's not my office. It's the

124office of the superintendent for Jackson Public Schools and I have been blessed uh to be able to serve in that capacity and we all come to work every day wanting to do great things and some days we accomplish that. Um, I'm happy to say that I believe the district is better than when I came here today or it's better today than when I came here. And I am so grateful for this board and for uh the effort and the work that that you have put in and then candidly for to Jeremy Patterson. It feels good to know that I'm handing the district off in good hands and that the JPS is a brighter future tomorrow. So I I want this for everybody. Uh, I want JPS to go farther than I've ever taken it and

125I look forward to seeing the achievements that that you guys will accomplish together. Thank you, Jeff. That leads us to agenda item number number 12. And these are just our calendar events. May 21st, tomorrow, it's here. the Balora at First United Methodist Church, 6 PM. If you can attend, please do so. May 22nd, honors convocation, which will be held at the Jackson High School auditorium at 6:00 p.m. May 23rd, Pathways SMV commencement that will be held at 100 p.m. at the Wington Stadium. On the same day, at a different time, May 23rd, JHS Jackson High School commencement will be held at 6:00 p. p.m. at the Willington Stadium. And then lastly, June 17th is our regular board meeting held here in the JHS media center at 6 PM. Item number 13. Question. Wait, wait, wait.

126There's one thing missing on the calendar. Sorry. June 3rd is our retirement dinner. So, if if you're unable to make it, let us know. But we sure hope that you can make it. Let Sarah know. Uh June 3rd, Cascades Manor House, 5:30 and then six o'clock for dinner. Cascades Manor Yep. Say the time one more time, Jessica, would you please? 5:30. Yep. 5:30. 5:30. You kind of meet and greet at 5:30 and dinner is served at 6. It's a really quick event. It's a really nice event. We're usually done within an hour and a half or so. Thank you. Thanks. And also, um, just one other thing, you know, graduation, our weather's looking a little iffy. If we do a rain day, it's usually Saturday morning. So, just keep that in mind. Um, we would

127probably do SEMV around 10:00 and Jackson High at about noon is usually what we do. So, just keep that in mind. We'll keep you posted. We hope that doesn't happen. So, I'm hoping by mentioning it, it means it won't happen, but just keep that in mind. Thank you. And can So, where and when are we meeting on Friday for Jackson High? Are we meeting We meet at Reynolds Hall at 5:00 p.m. Okay. 5:00 pm. Yeah. What about graduate? Commencement starts at 6. So we meet at 5. Five for Jackson High School. What about Pathways and SMB? Say that's at 1 p.m. What time would you like us to arrive? 12:30. Yeah. Okay. 12:30 at Reynolds. And the early commencement we don't wear robes. The the evening commencement we do just for dress and appropriate. Been

128down that road. And again, that's that's a SCMB pathways conversation. So, we give student choice to that. All right. Any other discussion on the calendar events? All right. Agenda item 13, adjournment. Motion. I make a motion to adjurnn. Support. Any discussion? All those in favor? I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you for attending our May Jackson Public School Board of Education meeting. Have a good night.