001Uh Luke, are we ready? Okay. Thank Okay. Good evening everyone. Um and those of you that are joining us at home, I apologize uh that we're starting late. We just came from another meeting. So, thank you for your patience as we get started here at our first meeting of the year. Happy new year, everyone. Um, adequate notice has been given. So, I'd like everyone to um stand and join us in saying the pledge. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Chris, would you read the motion to adopt the agenda, please? >> I move that the board approve the agenda as posted. >> Second. >> Um, all those in favor? Any opposed?
002Okay, motion passes. Um, do we have any public comments tonight, Gina? No. Okay, moving on to agenda item. Well, actually, before I turn it over to Dr. tell since it's our first meeting back of the year. I just like to say a few words as well. Um first of all um hopefully everyone in the community received the email that we sent uh on behalf of the board of education. And the first thing we mentioned, which I just wanted to also mention here tonight, is that as the board of education for the school district of Clayton, we strongly condemn the violent anti-semitic act that occurred in our community last week. And we are as a board and as a district com committed to doing our part to continuing anti-hate education, training, and community engagement. Um, Dr.
003Patel had sent an email even before that in July referencing uh the plans for the district to do those things. We also as a board are going to be looking at policies that refer to that and taking some other actions as a board as well. Um we offer our support and solidarity with those that were impacted by this. I'd also like to mention at the end of last school year um we sadly lost a Clayton High School student Nicholas Helmering and I just wanted to take a minute to acknowledge that for his friends for his family especially um I was at his funeral and I just wanted to say it was obvious by the number of students and teachers and community members there the lives that he touched of classmates, teachers, coaches, the entire community
004and it was a testament to what an incredible incredible friend, classmate, and student that Nicholas was. So, our thoughts have been and continue to be with his family and friends during this difficult time. I would also like to share with everyone our board goals. As a board of education, we set goals for every school year and we have two that I would like to share with everyone. Number one, which we also put in our email on Sunday, is that as a board we will work with stakeholders to finalize an actionable long range facilities plan, including consideration of a potential ballot measure and implement this plan throughout the remainder of this academic year. Our second goal number two is we will elevate our board leadership by building on existing strengths through targeted professional development and ongoing
005education. And with that, I will turn it over to Dr. Patel for superintendence update. Great. Thank you. Welcome everyone. It's nice to see everyone in the audience today. Happy New Year. I don't think there are many professions where we get to say happy new year twice in a year. So, it's always nice to be able to start off with that. Um, you know, when we think about summer in the education world, a lot of people have this idea that, okay, it's kind of slows down a little and, you know, people are enjoying some vacation times and I hope they did, but learning does not stop for us. So, one of the things I do want to highlight is over the summer under the leadership of our assistant superintendent of teaching and learning, Dr. Garganigo and
006our director of professional learning, professional development and assessment. We offer a lot of opportunities called summer institutes for our staff to continue to learn and grow over the summer. Um this year I believe we had over 115 sessions that we offered variety of topics and all of our staff signed up or majority of our staff give up their summer to continue their learning opportunities. we had like over 70 facilitators working with our staff members in this new learning that was occurring. So, a lot of um potential outcomes that were that happened and a lot of staff that were very excited about this. We also do a survey at the end of the summer institute and I believe over 200 responded to the survey and 88% of them strongly agreed that this was a positive learning
007experience for them. So, I just want to acknowledge and just tell our staff that we're grateful to them for continuing the learning even in the summer months. Um, and then most recently as we started into the school year, we welcomed all of our new educators to the district. We have this year we have 24 new teachers, three administrators, and um three practicum students that are going to be joining us. And we immersed them last week in a lot of learning as well all around our strategic plan and the goal being really understand us as a district as they come to us and what our values are, what our beliefs are and what our long-term goals are. So they did a lot of work around um equity and creating a sense of belonging for all of
008our students. They did a lot of work around teaching and learning and they did a lot of work on what it means when we say in head and heart and the social emotional well-being of our students. A lot of exciting times and I thank you Stacy was there to welcome them as well as our student board rep Nino was there as well. So that was really good. And as a collective, when you think about that group, they're coming with about a little over 12 years of teaching experience. And I believe 87% of them um have a master's degree or above. So very excited for this new group. And every time they join us, I always say, not only are we going to not only are they going to learn with us, but we're going to
009learn from them because they come with different perspectives. So we're excited to have them on board. Then also over the summer um we've spent a lot of time and I hope the community is staying engaged with the communications we've been doing around our facilities work. We already had one full day and that was a full day that was packed with a lot of activities and discussion with our elementary groups and it was a workshop that was led. And then most recently we had another half day with the elementary groups and the high school groups on what we want our facilities to look like and how we're going to modernize them. And all of the conversations there is going to help our architects team with the next steps. BLDD has also joined us and I know
010that we're mapping out the next workshop for all of our facilities in terms of athletics and activities and they will they're both all the whole team is here. I see them in the audience. They're going to be doing a presentation just to give the board and the community an update on the work they've done and the upcoming work as well. And one of the things that I really hope that our community um pays attention to is not only the work that we're doing in these workshops, but really what we want it to eventually be. When we think about the school district of um Clayton, like what do our facilities mean? And if we really want to be future ready, are our facilities matching what's happening in the teaching and learning? And one of the activities
011at the elementary workshops that um Perkins will facilitated was really about how innovative are we as a district and they they asked the teachers to put rank themselves from zero to 10. 10 being really innovative and all the teachers believe that teaching and learning we're innovative but when you think of our facilities we're not. We're more on the Flintstones. I think the graphic was Flintstones or Jetsons and where do you fall and they believe the facilities are more in the Jet um Flintstones era. So they're doing the best they can but imagine if they even had facilities to match that. So I hope that we through our communication e newsws the emails I send the emails the board sends the website that the community continues to stay engaged in this very very important work that
012we're doing. Um, we will be having three community engagement forums coming up. One is on September 10th, the first one coming up, and then October 21st and one on November 18th. They'll all be at Clayton High School, and we hope that to have like a large crowd there where we can have the conversations and really get your input on what our progress is. We also will be doing a community survey so that we can get that input as well. But it's just an important part in our district and I ask that everyone just stay engaged in the work that's happening. And I believe that is it for me. I'm going to hand it over to Nina, our first student board update. >> Oh, can you Yeah, you just got to push. >> Perfect. Thank you.
013Um although we've had a break from school, Clayton students continued to do amazing things over the summer. Our girls soccer team won the class 2 state championship on June 7th. And this success was extra special because the team also won the state championship just two years prior. Our speech and debate team at the high school also took two qualifiers to nationals. And rising junior Henry Dong placed top 24 in extemporaneous debate, which was pretty exciting. Additionally, rising junior Aspen Meyer won first place in a national speech composition competition that aims to cultivate a deeper understanding of Korean culture and history. So, some very exciting things happening with students over the summer. And then, um, here is kind of my plan for this year and how I'm going to play a role. Um, last Monday, I
014had the pleasure of welcoming Clayton's newest teachers to the district. I talked to teachers from all three elementary schools, the middle school, and the high school. I asked many of them what they were most excited for in the upcoming school year, and almost every single one of them said meeting the students and building a community, which I thought was a perfect representation of what Clayton stands for. It was so great to see how excited and welcomed they felt by the wonderful induction brunch, and I was so glad to be able to share a few words of encouragement with them. I'm currently in the process of setting up focus groups at each of the elementary schools and the middle school, as well as enhancing the school's SPSA, the high school's SPSA committee. Once these focus groups
015have been put together, I plan to meet with the elementary and middle schoolers every two months or so, and the high schoolers bi-weekly to discuss their school experience and collect feedback that best represents the student body. I also plan on keeping students connected and in the loop by developing some sort of open form or survey that anyone can fill out with comments, suggestions, or questions. This will ensure that we're regularly gauging the opinions of students and are able to make our priorities list based on how uncommon or common an issue is. All in all, I am very excited to represent our student body and I know it's going to be a great year. >> Thank you, Nina. Great job on your first update. We're so happy you're here. Um, moving on to agenda item five,
016policy. We have several policies to review tonight and um, some of them uh, must be voted on and approved before the first day of school. So, that's why uh, we have more than normal tonight because we need to make sure they're approved before school starts soon. So, we are starting with 5.1 policy BBBA-1 board member qualifications. Um, Chris, if you'll read the motion, please. >> I move that the board adopt policy BBBA-1 board member qualifications with proposed changes. >> Second. >> Okay, it's been moved and seconded. Does anyone have any questions or comments on this policy at all? >> Okay. The only thing that I would say is I think the addition to the policy is good one. >> Yes, it is. It is a good one. >> So, and for the public's benefit, the
017addition was, you know, addition because there aren't a lot of qualifications honestly to run for school board, but the addition was that you you cannot run for school board if you have been convicted or have entered a guilty plea for the offense of assault, first or second degree. So, right, I think that's an excellent >> on school and on school. >> Yes. disqualifying factor. >> I guess I say this for all of these. This is a change that's dictated by a Missouri >> by a statute >> statute and so we're not make having a lot of discussion because we've been told what to say. >> Correct. Yes, that's a good point, Leo. Oftentimes um for the community, for the public to understand, oftentimes when we it maybe appears that we're like quickly approving a policy
018without much discussion, it's because it's been dictated by law and statute. And so there's not much wiggle room for us at all. We have to approve it or we'll be um we won't be following along. Okay. Um um all those in favor? >> Any opposed? Okay. Motion passes. Um 5.2 is policy EHBA student use of personal electronic devices. >> Will you read this motion please? Happily, I move that the board rescend policy EHBA. >> Second. >> Okay. Any questions or comments about this motion which is rescending an old policy of student use of personal electronic devices for instructional purposes? Any comments or questions? >> Okay. And it's being rescended because it's being replaced. Just so everyone understands >> the warm-up act. >> Yeah. Okay. All those in favor? >> I. Any opposed? Okay. That motion
019passes. Thank you. >> 5.3 policy JFCD, student use of personal communication devices. Want me to go ahead? >> Um, yeah. I move that the board adopt policy JFCD, student use of personal communication devices to replace policy EHBA. >> Second. >> Okay. Any questions or comments on this policy JFCD which is replacing the one we just rescended? Anyone? Go ahead, Leo. >> I just caught your eye. >> Sure. Um like the policy we talked about a moment ago, this policy is substantially dictated by a Missouri statute. And in this case, um the organization that works on our policy is called Missouri School association took a statute about cell phones and digested into this policy that you see and my understanding is that we're adopting that policy just as MSBA digested that statute. Is that correct? >>
020That is correct. Yeah, that is correct. >> Um we've had conversations a couple conversations here about uh enforcement under the previous policy. This policy imposes more restrictions than our existing policy does. The policy itself can enforce itself. So, we're going to continue to have those conversations. Um because we have more restrictions in place now. Those conversations are probably if anything harder. Um so, you know, what would you say to give someone some assurance that there's going to be enforcement under this new stricter policy? So yeah, hello everyone. How are you this evening? Um yeah, so that has been there has been a lot of conversation around the enforcement. What does it look like? How's it different from last year? Um you know, I had some time I know Pam's not here tonight, but I did
021get a chance to meet with Pam and talk with Pam a little bit. Um and this was one of the questions she had as well as far as um you know, what does enforcement really look like? Now, what I can say is that um already you're seeing a a different level of um I'm going to use the word intentionality. Already um this year we've already seen I've been in the buildings the last couple of days. Um I've been in with the buildings as our staff is being talked to and directed in this work and how we're going to monitor it and enforce it. Um, so number one, it's already ramping up in the fact that it's being um much more communicated than I I do believe that it probably has been in the past. Um,
022that is going to continue into the first two weeks of school. Um, that the kids are also through class meetings and everything. There's going to be regular redirects for those first two two weeks. Hey, remember, you know, things like watches seem like they become a very natural thing. I put mine on every morning. And so for the first couple of weeks, everyone is being instructed, hey, look, remember this is the law. You cannot do this anymore. It needs to go away. It needs to be turned off. And so the conversation around it um has shifted to be a lot more what I would say is intense, right? We this is this is what we are doing. This is how it's going to be enforced. Um so some clear communication. It's also a great thing I
023think with this is you're seeing all of this being unified across all buildings. So there are no you know one school does this the other school does this it is becoming uniform across the board. It makes enforcement much easier when you know one school doesn't say well you know they got to do it at there or whatever the case may be. So that is also another level. Um, one of the things that I've also said, now this comes from the tech director side, right? And so one of the things that I also see with this is some of the language and you know with the questions that I've been asked um some of the language that I like to use in this is that it's going to be used sparingly because we have a lot
024of opportunity that when the educational components that we were using cell phones for in the past I think we're having a huge intentionality to look at those situations and to provide alternatives. So, it becomes less necessary to really have cell phones for educational use. And so, we're really taking a look already in the last um two weeks, I've had multiple conversations, especially with CHS teachers um that may have been using them for one reason, but we're giving them an alternative to be able to use it and we're providing the resources to do so. Um that is not what we did last year. Obviously, we made those um educational because they were they were needed, but now we're really looking deeper into how do we really remove the need to even have them on, you know,
025on the person, I guess. So, um so yeah, those are some of the ways that we do anticipate that this is going to be much different than it has been in the past. >> And as you mentioned, Pam's not here tonight, and I know >> um I think she would express to you I express it too that um we've already had one kind of year of not fully living up to expectation and um some of what you're saying does seem new but some of it seems like continuation and just to continue to push and also I think to think about if there's any new ideas that are different than just communicate harder which is um what you expressed. Do you think I captured the essence of Pam's point of view? Stacy, do you have anything
026else you want? >> I think so. And I just um I apologize to Pam. Um I meant to say in the beginning, she's not here because she's taking her oldest son to college today. So, I just wanted everyone to understand why she's not here tonight. Um yes, I think so. Um, I think we saw it on our up what Pam wanted us to convey is that we saw in our update at the end of last school year, there was data to kind of prove that it really, especially at the high school, a little less less so at Wound, but still not great, that the practices weren't being enforced. And now that this law applies to even, you know, like you said, passing time, meal time, lunchtime, even more times during the day, we just would
027like to be assured, of course, that it is enforced. It's a law now. It's not just our recommendation. And so, if it wasn't being enforced as well as we would have liked last school year, how will we be reassured that it will be this school year? which you kind of already answered, but I'm just reiterating I'm reiterating the concern. Yeah. >> Yeah. And and to that point, I think there's there's a lot of strength in the fact that it is a law, right? And whether lot not we like it or not, that being the case does carry weight. Um and so there is there is a lot more conversation around it. I think even amongst all of the staff that you know this this is the law. And so there is there is a level
028of this that would would I love to say that policy is you know always taken as seriously as a law maybe not maybe in a lot of cases but we do we do see some of that one thing that I would add to and I think is important is as we move into our tech study moving forward and I'll I'll make this connection here because I think it is a valuable connection is that you know we we also have had an influx of a lot of, you know, personal devices and things to accommodate for maybe what we think or may it'll depend on how the study rolls out on what is the most appropriate device for students. And so we do think that that is going to have some type of connection in obviously this
029work as well. Um, it's another way that we could see obviously being able to uh diminish the need to have personal devices in any capacity if students have the right device in their hands. Now, could that be what they have now? Yes, we'll go through the study, maybe not, but there could be a direct connection moving forward and how that fits together with taking out the need to have any personal devices whatsoever. And do you feel comfortable that um Dr. Kachuski at the high school for instance has plans in place to address the use during passing times and meal times which is different than being in a confined classroom with a supervising teacher to enforce it? >> Yeah. And I do think there's there naturally there is going to be enforcement challenges. I mean, we
030know there is enforcement challenges with vaping and we know there's enforce. So, there's always going to be, you know, some challenges ahead that we're going to have to probably, you know, pivot and ad, you know, adapt to as we see them, as we put more of a light on the work. I will say that even Dr. Kushki, because we were just talking about it a moment ago, um, we've had now two days with the staff back and on both days there has been work done on this where he has addressed the staff. So it is being taken uh it is not being taken lightly if I could say. So he has um he has put emphasis on emphasis on it emphasis on being clear and how he moves forward. So >> I think that was
031>> pretty much what Pam wanted us to convey. >> Yeah. And I guess I would say uh I'm not Pam. I don't have exactly uh way of saying it but speaking in my own way we have a policy we expected to be implemented and effective and there's definitely an administrative domain but if there's not effective implementation I do think that can elevate things to the board level it can't so let's get it done >> absolutely absolutely >> yeah just one one com one suggestion or comment and then one question. The suggestion and comment being um I think the smart watches is going to be what the big changes just across the entire district like this impacts the elementary school level more than >> you know the other the other stuff does and so just being
032overly communicative with parents and students about that big change because I think you talk about an ongoing enforcement challenge like that's my guess is that's what's going to be it for the next nine months. Um so good luck with that. Um, my question is, and you've talked on this a little bit, Luke, but maybe we could be a little more specific. H how whether it's Luke or or Dr. Patel or whomever, how how is the administration interpreting the youth for educational purposes section and how is that being implemented? >> So, the implementation and I can kind of speak to it because we we actually define it's going to be part of the you know procedures naturally always the same. Um that is number one. I love the word sparingly. It's being communicated as this is
033going to be a very sparingly, you know, given uh opportunity for somebody to use something that's outside of outside of the norm. Um that being said, uh it will be something that is has to be requested ahead of time to an administrator and in that's not like the day before. We're we're thinking this is going to be communicated well ahead of time. So there's proper time to assess whether or not it's needed or like I had mentioned earlier maybe there's a way that we can provide the opportunity to not have to have it be the case right so maybe there's another form of tech an iPad whatever that we can be able to provide in in in lie of that um if it still continues to need to go up to the next level um
034teaching and learning technology we'll get involved to be able to work that through with the administrator and the staff as as well to just ultimately try and provide other pathways to have it to where it's not a necessary item. >> Is that >> I just thought it'd be helpful for the public to hear that. I mean that that is a material procedural change from last year and I think it's just helpful for the public to hear hear that part as well. Has anyone made a request yet? Sorry, I'm not >> I've not seen any requests yet. Okay. In qu in in fact quite the opposite. Now, we're already talking about, okay, what are some devices that we can bring into the classroom to accommodate this? Yeah. Ahead of time. So, thanks. >> I had the
035same question, Jason, about that. It says a a superintendent, principal, or design may authorize the use. And I just wanted to make sure that that's being clearly communicated to the staff who they go to to authorize it. Like, is it their their building principal? I assume, but um yeah, similar. And similarly about the watches, we actually already heard from a parent cons with elementary students worried about the watches because >> the student needs the watch before and after school to communicate with home because they they're walking on their own at a young age >> and worried about them then taking it off during the day >> at the age of nine, let's say, >> and having it be lost or stolen or forgotten. And so >> are you are you confident that elementary schools have
036some kind of system in place? Yeah. >> Or the teachers maybe are working on that so that >> well they are and and the elementaryaries have been to because that is a change at the elementary schools completely >> but they can't they have to be out of sight for us to comply with the law. Just so everyone understand >> the plan is to put them out of you know in backpacks >> but young kids are not as maybe responsible with things like that. So >> as long as our classrooms have >> process and things. Yes. Yes. I'm confident that they've been working on that work already. So, and having that conversation with the teachers. >> Good. Thank you. >> So, my only question is, and this is really more um geared towards likely middle school
037and high school students, personal laptops are included here as personal communication devices. So, does that mean that all middle school and high school students that are using personal laptops or had been in the past would need to request an exemption to continue to use personal laptops for this coming school year? >> So, what we've done is we've actually given that as the exemption. So a laptop, a personal laptop will continue to be used for the upcoming year. Okay. >> Um with hopes that you know the tech study I think conversation on what those devices look like so that they are not a necessity moving forward. Okay. Um in order to bring those back right now the fear would be that we would not be ready to accommodate what of somewhat of some of what our
038students may or may not need um in their courses. So, um, we'll that'll be left >> automatically essentially granted. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> That's not obvious reading this policy. So, >> yeah, that's a good question. >> Um, so I know there's a a plan for looking at alternate devices, right, for student use. And there's been, you know, discussion around, >> yeah, >> the effectiveness of the Chromebooks and and hence the need for personal laptops in some cases. uh given the sort of u you know there's a fair that's still on the kind of like in the discussion about what that might be. Do we foresee there could be some scenarios where uh because we can no longer use phones like are we prepared for those devices to be in inserted and be effective this
039coming school year? >> Yeah. In fact, we've already had that conversation uh with uh our oper our operations director today who does a lot of our technology. We were we've we've done some um we've done some prepping ahead of time, not knowing exactly how much we were going to need. And there may be some need to order some extra equipment at some point in time to be able to phys facilitate things we're not aware of or how much they're going to need. Um but our plan is to um have inventory enough to be able to produce the need at the time if that's kind of the direction you're going. Um does that make sense? >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I I mean I just recall there were a couple of scenarios in which they were used.
040I think like digital photography was one, >> right? >> So um do we have an alternate device for that class for example? >> Yeah, we we had planned to use iPads. So digital photography using the cameras on the iPhones will be comparable to the the iPads. A little bit more cumbersome because they're a little larger to carry around, but at the same time they do accommodate the need that we currently have. So we have like classroom sets. Yeah. >> And we'll be we'll be adding classroom sets in certain classrooms. So >> Right. >> So with regard just made me think of something with the personal laptops which are presumably connecting to the school Wi-Fi. Right. >> So th do those do those laptops receive the same kind of filter treatment internet filter policy treatment? So
041part of this too is is I think in the procedure aspect of it from the technical side um we do ask for the phones to be turned off during the day. Part of the reason is for this purpose because as long as a device is connected to our network it is being filtered appropriately. We cannot control the data on on devices that are outside of the district, right? And so if there is some to some type of tethering or pairing of those devices, you know, they can use data and use, you know, things outside of our filtering. So explicitly putting in procedure to be able to turn those devices off is going to be part of the part of the challenge as we go through the year. But that is important. Um I just I
042just thought of something else too. Um >> what So obviously we're talking about all school grounds, right? Including athletic fields. Does that include the parking lots? I mean I'm just thinking have we thought through all this, >> you know? >> I mean knowing Yeah. >> I call Knowing my own child, he might well find himself running out in the parking lot. Yes. >> Uh so I'm just cur I mean >> I probably hasn't been fully flushed out yet, but I'm just curious if that's part of >> Yes. Some of that will happen here as we start to learn from what the the behaviors are >> um moving forward because this will be much more um uh stringent in its it it you know in its roll out um there could be some things that we
043do have to react to as far as what the behaviors of the students are because of this um this push. So there yes we we definitely have had those conversations but what it looks like as we move into the year will We'll be ready to adapt as that comes across. >> Yes. But since obviously it's going to be a unfolding kind of scenario with I think fairly if we could get sort of regular updates on how it's going, >> you know, uh more often than we might uh something like this. This is you might want to ask. >> Thank you. That was one of the things I was going to say, Ben, is um um how often are we going to hear back from you about how things are going and specifically how are we
044going to be collecting data around, you know, misuse and policy, you know, mis um >> I I just wonder if it's going to be any different than ne last year in terms of your reporting to us and what you're reporting and who's gathering it and all of that. >> Right. as far as so some of the obviously the the things will remain the same as far as some of the data being collected um surveys obviously and how it's going learning a little bit I mean what's interesting is I think a lot of what we learn is from the students so surveying the students not only just the staff and being able to kind of get some of that data will be important >> and so yeah we will be collecting that as we move forward
045to inform you in those things >> okay so by the end of this first semester Sure. Would we be able to get some data on, you know, how many incidents of, you know, misuse there is in each of the buildings? >> Yeah, I we can talk with the principles and figure out a way to maybe come up with a a good a way to have some data at that point. >> Okay. Thank you. Um Okay. So, going back to what we've all discussed, which is so critical, I think, is this, you know, paragraph in here about use for educational purposes, right? We all are very aware that we want that to be adhered to. And um I need you Luke to give me not one but two examples of how it why a teacher would
046be able to say and get approved to use it given everything you just said. A given all the exceptions we already have because we already know some students need it for x y and z thing all written in here very clearly completely acceptable. >> I'm not talking about that, right? We already got that in there. We know that those they can be used for those things. Give me examples of when you think that Dr. Kachuski would approve the use of a foam and why and if you the thing is I just want us to feel like we've thought through all of this because I'm not positive. I'll just say that this even needs to be there because of how much we've delineated out all the reasons why it can be used. The law truly is
047trying to say and it doesn't get used for anything else. So tell me why that needs to be there. Give me two examples, different examples of why you would approve or Nisha or Dr. Kachuski would approve for a teacher to use a cell >> for an educational purpose. >> Correct. >> Um why the lay so at this point I would say most of the situations that I've been confronted with already the beginning of the year like I've said before we are already at making accommodations for right. So that's important to kind of note. Um, do I do I know all the situations we may meet this year? I right off the top of my head, I'm not going to be able to give you two because I don't think I've come up with two that
048I couldn't come up with something for. Right. Right. >> And so there is some there is some reality to the fact that we hope that, you know, maybe that language isn't you need it in the future. Right. And I think there's some reality to that, you know. Um, at this point I would hesitate to, >> you know, jump out too much in front and remove something and then we go, "Oh, we we we didn't know that was going to be a need." Um, >> and I think that that's why we've put in into the procedure that um if a teacher feels that they really need it for an educational purpose and we have not been able to meet the need, they have to talk to the administrator, whoever evaluates them, their departments, right? So, it
049could be an assistant principal, it could be Dr. Gachki and have that conversation ahead of time. Yeah. And if he feels like, "Yeah, I think you're right." Or even Jamie or whoever. Yeah, this could be a cell phone conversation. That's why you loop in Melena and Luke and say, "Okay, hey guys, here I have a situation. They really feel they need their cell phone from a tech perspective, teaching and learning perspective. Do we really is there something else that we could do right >> instead of that?" >> Right. And it sounds like you're being so proactive about that, which makes all the sense in the world. So, I think we're all on the same page in the I I just I if you guys haven't even come up with a single scenario besides the ones
050that are already delineated that's needed for ADA, etc., etc. It doesn't seem to me I would hope Melina and you um would be like, "No, that's a no. That's a no." And that's a no. You know, maybe we'll start getting asked, right? But I would I would like for us to understand and recognize that we there used to not be cell phones and teachers did just fine. >> Yeah. >> So I >> and I think this will be this will also be a great thing to report on next time we're in next time we're having this conversation here. Yes. >> You know was there any requests and we we would be happy to you know >> be able to share if there was any and how we accommodated them or perfect >> or didn't and
051needed. >> I can't think of anything we couldn't accommodate. Right. Yeah, I mean Luke, you're already doing it. You're already accommodating in all these great ways. So, >> and again, there could be something that we're not aware of at this point in time. And I think that's the reason probably to leave it in just to be, you know, just to be >> and it's sort of the law. >> It's the mere state law. That's why >> it's in there. This is exactly how it get. But I'm saying for our purposes as a district, I'm hoping that we I mean the Yes, there may be something, right? But I I guess I'm saying that I think our hope is that >> we have so many other options available that there doesn't need we don't need this
052to be >> utilized this >> for now though this policy does include laptops and we need it for that. Right. >> Right. Right. >> So for now >> we do need it for that purpose. >> But I guess it's it's all about the like perception from the staff point of view too about why that is there too. It's you're we're saying yeah it's there. the law, but as a district, we would like for you to understand that no, we're not hope we're not hoping for you to come up and ask us to please let us use cell phones for XYZ thing. We're hoping nobody asks. And you know, if they do, you know, we don't really see a good reason for it to be used. There are just literally so many other things that could
053be used. >> So, I just I'd like to see us as a district just draw a line and say we really don't have a need for this other than these very valid reasons. Nina, do you have any questions or comments about this from a student's perspective? >> So, I think this is probably more applicable to the middle and high school because we have more of like a like in the elementary schools, you're, you know, everyone's in one place for lunch and that's kind of how it is in middle school. But how are you going to like make sure that students I mean because there's really no way to like you know be everywhere at once in the high school which is like obviously understandable but how will this policy be enforced like you know when
054there's no like when there's not really like a structured activity when kids are just kind of like you know around doing their own thing >> right yeah and part of the procedure that you know is going to be taken I think it is mentioned as well that you know the campus supervisors and you know the teachers in the hallways and pretty much it's going to take all of us to make sure that this is this will be a team effort. of monitoring because to your point, there are unstructured times that we'll all have to be aware and and we'll all have to be doing some redirecting, especially in these first couple of weeks to be like, "Hey, remember." Um, and so, yeah, it's going to take it's it's going to take everybody in in spaces
055that may or may not normally have had staff in it or things like that. >> Good point. even just across the street. >> Um I think um you know it doesn't appear that any of us have any real issue with the policy language um at all. I think it sounds like from what each of us expressed is really just the same questions basically we had in April which is the enforcement of it and it's even more extensive this year. So I realize we all realize this is a learning curve. I'm hoping because we started this work last year that we kind of have a head start whereas other districts may not but um it is the additional times that Nah's talking about that I mentioned earlier the the passing periods and lunch times that I
056wonder yeah time at the high school wonder who's supervising that to to enforce enforce the law as well and I think about what Ben said about where does parking lots you know we do have an open campus so kids are heading out to lunch they're they're obviously allowed to using their phone when they're, you know, at straws. So, >> when does that start? When does that stop and start? Is it at the front doors or what? So, >> yeah. Go ahead, Leo. >> So, just to follow up on the educational purposes one other way, you mentioned kind of a broad categorical exception that you're making at least this year for the laptops. Yeah. >> Are there any other kind of categorical educational purposes exceptions that you guys conceptualize. I think you said no, but I
057just want to ask you a different not now I'm going to say educational. Now the law also does provide um exceptions for other reasons whether that's medical reasons or whether that's going to be you know 504s or however. So there's going to be some other reasons but from an educational standpoint at this point um >> and there's also an emergency exception issued >> but there's no Okay. I've asked my question. Thanks. That's all. >> Okay. Okay. We have the um the it's been uh moved and seconded. All those in favor of adopting this policy. >> I Any opposed? No. Okay. Motion passes. Thank you, Luke. Um agenda item 5.4 policy JG, which is student discipline. I move that the board adopt policy JG student discipline with proposed changes. >> Second. >> Okay. >> Any comments
058or questions from anyone on student discipline for Dr. P? Anyone? No. Okay. This is the one that's just a one reading. Also, Nina, did you have any questions or comments on this one? Okay. Okay. Okay. All those in favor? Any opposed? No. Okay. That motion policy JG passes. Um, we are on to 5.5 regulation JG-R1 student discipline. >> I move that the board adopt regulation JG-R1 student discipline with proposed changes. >> Second. >> Okay. Any questions or comments on this policy from anyone? I just want to say I appreciate that we changed the language um from marijuana to cannabis because there were other policies we talked about last year and that way we just have common language you know across the board and I think that is the common language in general not just in
059our district these days. Any other any questions or comments? Okay. All those in favor? >> I any opposed? Oh okay. That policy passes as well. and um policy 5.6 Six policy GBCB staff conduct. There's not an Okay, so read I would just um >> but we usually >> we usually read a motion. Yeah. Yeah. Read the same motion as the others. >> Okay. We don't. Sorry. We've had a long summer break. We're all confused. Okay. Okay. So, policy J GBCB is titled staff conduct. This is a first reading. This will have a second reading. Um, so I'd like to open it up for questions, comments, discussion with Kelly. Who would like to go first? How about Ben? How about Ben? >> Just moving around the table. >> Um, So, first of all, I think there's
060like a really a lot of really timely changes in here. Um, so I in reviewing this and um thinking about it, I did a fair amount of looking at other districts and just seeing what other policies look like and um so uh it's interesting the differences different states, different regions. Um, so I did actually um find some language that I I would like to introduce um for consideration um as an addition to this. It it may actually overlap a little uh but if I may I'll go ahead and read that now. Um so what I would propose is and again I should take full credit this is bit lifted a little bit changed um from another district but uh an employes use of personal social media may not disrupt the work school environment impair their
061ability to perform their district duties effectively undermine supervisory authority andor compromise working relationships within district schools and offices. Any postings by employees will not reference, link, or contain statements that could be viewed as malicious, obscene, threatening, or intimidating that disparage students, employees, parents, or community members, or that could be viewed as harassment or bullying. Um to me it I feel like this really covers off on a lot of you know kind of the scenarios and use cases and I just think you know actually one thing I also did was I looked at my own uh employers policy around this and I was like wow there's a lot there. Uh we all have to be very careful uh in the world that we're in and should be careful and mindful of the things that we say
062and do uh particularly online. Uh so in my opinion, this would be language I think that uh just helps kind of sharpen the policy and give it a little bit uh more coverage, if you will. Um don't expect anyone to respond to that necessarily right now, but would love for everyone to take a look when uh before the next reading. >> Um >> and Ben, can you share that with all of us and with Kelly so that we can see it in writing? you did share that earlier today and I actually like just kind of snuck it in to the document that we have right now. My question would be as you're um considering it, would we think that it replaces number 10, maybe even 11 somewhere in there is where I think we have
063overlap. So, um that would just be like do we want that in addition? Do we want that to replace something Well, I I >> Go ahead. >> I was just going to say um 10 and 11 are kind of general. They don't mention social media. Oh, they do mention it. It does. You're right in the middle of it. It feels like what Ben read is a lot more specific, which I think is is why he shared it. There's definitely, as I look at it, some overlap. Yeah, there's some definitely some overlap in the first like two or three sentences of 10. >> Yeah, >> I really like actually that that last piece of it where it highly suggests that these are my views and not those. I think that's really good to have in there.
064>> Um, so I think maybe a reworking of 10 with some of this language I think would make perfect sense. >> I think so too. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Thank you. and the new language they have that >> I think I want to point out the difference that we're talking about here. Let me try to articulate this. Um the one that the one that we have here, it makes sure that um we in fact it says encourage, which I'm wondering if it should say require um but it it makes sure that that that the staff member knows that they are um supposed to make sure they are make everyone aware of what their personal view is versus, you know, and it's not the district's view. But I think what yours does is a lot bigger
065because it actually encourage it. It it makes it so that it's not permissible for anything that is even their own view to be bullying behavior that would disrupt our students or or other staff. And that's a huge difference and I think it needs to be in here. And I don't it really isn't in a lot of ways in the way it is currently. maybe in a couple I would have to look through, but I really like that that it adds that to that um to this document. So I I think one of the pieces of why it says views are my own and not those of the district is encouraged is because that's more specifically when you are acting in a capacity that somebody might confuse you as you as the person you know in
066your own social media versus if you're um alluding to the fact that I'm a teacher in the school district of Clayton and they might take what I'm saying is that I'm acting in that capacity even though I'm acting you know, as a private citizen. Um, so that's where it gets a little bit tricky. I think Felicia had shared with you that there were a couple of these that the MSBA attorneys are looking at too because they are, you know, not sure if if we are overstepping. We have to make sure that we are maintaining the line between professionalism, personal also in this policy which we definitely will not be able to and should not employ. >> But that sentence was struck struck out. I was going to ask why. >> So it's it's not I
067separated um number eight. Number eight. Yeah. So it moved to the bottom of two parts. So It's still there. >> Okay. >> Um I just I felt like the previous number eight that's in our current policy was two parts. >> So I divided them out. It's actually the same language. It's just split into two. >> Okay. Thank you. I didn't see the >> My thought would be whether that sentence that Kim just read >> should be a part of not a numbered item >> but a freestanding statement >> like almost like an opening >> because it applies to everything. like a prologue like in the intro >> because I don't we do not >> we do not and cannot infringe on anyone's right >> remembered speech we are a public school >> and um so
068there are certain things that we can and cannot do that a private employer could do or you know a private school could do >> whatever we you know this is our first reading I think a lot of these suggestions are really great And I think what we're looking for is, you know, uh to maintain a school environment that's positive and a maintain a a community environment that's positive for everybody that is part of the school community. Um and conduct, everything we're talking about, you know, digital conduct, verbal conduct, all plays into that. But at the end of the day, free speech is protected by law, >> correct? Public school. >> Correct. >> So that freestanding comment probably needs to be in there. And then at the end of this, whatever we put in needs to
069be reviewed by >> right by our attorneys, which they >> I would that was a big point I was going to make is just you're going to get a lot of comments and you're going to take them back and digest them and what Ben wrote or what Ben proposed has a lot of good content in it. You're going to go through and you're going to reconcile it with what's in there. I don't think we should lose any of the ideas that are in there. I think that's what Ben was saying. And then you're going to you're going to get going to come back with something that includes some of that input and everything else. Social media has obviously been an issue with education for a long time now, for years. Um, there are people who
070I can think of publicly lost their jobs over stupid things they did on social media and there are other stories that I guess maybe didn't become public that I know of. Um I wonder if there are more specific guy the what we've said all is very good and it's good stuff if there are more specific rules around social media that are worth discussing or memorializing. I I think many teachers for example would never have a follow foll follower follow relationship with a student on social media. I don't know if that should be a rule or if that's just a >> that's just a common expectation. Um but that's something very specific that a policy can say. Um and I there may be other things like that that are um that are kind of discreet, cut
071and dried that improve these situations. And while we're talking about social media, we should talk about we should think about all of those. Do you know, Kelly, if legally we um what what Leo's mentioning, can there be a um can legally we tell our staff that they >> between students, teacher students can't follow each other on social med? >> We have a student to staff relations policy and in that it says that they can communicate only by approved channels basically. So they wouldn't be communicating with them on something like a social media platform. So I would assume that kind of would encompass that. Um we also had during our new teacher induction communications came and talked with all of our new teachers um about our communications guidelines. So while it's not explicitly stated like in
072policy somewhere, I think that there are multiple places where if you had a student following you, you would be violating some boundaries that are set forth. Um, I know we've talked a lot about and Leo brought up, you know, getting it more specific on the guidelines, which we definitely can and I've captured that in my notes to continue to um, think over. The only problem that I foresee, as you guys all know, we look at policies on a regular basis, but like they're not all-encompassing because technology is going to change. So, like if we explicitly state you can't have followers, you guys know in a year from now it's not followers anymore. It's blah. You know, whatever the new the new term is. Um, so I think we just have to be careful with that
073of you're not going to catch it all. That's why I think sometimes it's left purposefully like all-encompassing so that we say like you you need to have professional boundaries with your students and you know we as as a group get to decide what those boundaries are and when you have violated those because we're the ones that you know interpret the policy. >> Well, you bring up a good point that I was going to mention. I don't know if you all caught this, but we last revised this policy in 2020. I mean, it's been a while. Um, I think in the spring of 2020, so almost six years. So, things changed. And I think that's why actually Ben's point is so important that >> even five years ago, of course, social media was around, but it
074wasn't being used as prevalently as it is today. So, I do think that is a reason to, >> right? And we're gonna like be able to forbid everything that common sense would tell you is inappropriate conduct. So I think that's why like the language in here is that you know education employees have to have you know the the highest level of conduct both inside the school and outside of the school. And we do that because that's how we maintain a culture of like trust and safety. And that's the purpose of a policy like this is to make sure people are you know making good choices. Um so we maintain that culture of of safety and trust. I think the the number 12 is very clear. Only district approved platforms or accounts should be used for
075official communications. So, are we saying that students and staff shouldn't even be commenting on each other's It's one thing to follow. We've talked about following whether or not we're going to delineate that, but there shouldn't even Right. already there's already number 12 saying there shouldn't even be communication between the two on social. >> Yeah. So that 12 would be an addition. It's not something that's currently in the policy. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Any of the ones that are highlighted to look at that. >> Yeah. >> I like that. I mean, that's that's very clear. That's, you know, we're only you're we're saying to to the staff, you only communicate with students in these certain platforms, otherwise not at all. >> Right. Where we can access whatever that conversation might be needed to. >> There you
076go. Right. >> I don't know. That prohibits everything we want. It says official communications. I'm not sure. >> Oh, it's official. >> Official. >> Exactly. >> Anyway, >> maybe the word official doesn't need to be there. >> Yeah. >> Can I ask a question? >> Of course. >> Okay, great. Uh >> I don't even need a motion. Uh my question is about It's gonna be a long year. My question is about number 11. Um what is there I don't know if I'm asking this the right way but is there a line of demarcation where an employee needs to disclo needs to state that their views are his her own uh and not that of this district like is it like when does that need to be disclosed and when right do you not have to
077disclose it? >> How do they clearly indicate that? >> Yeah. So so number 11 is currently in the policy. That's not a new one. Um but I I don't know that there is a line. It depends on who is interpreting that, right? And like like we as a team have to determine when we believe, you know, a line was crossed or a policy was violated. Um, in my opinion, it would be if if someone could be confused if you're acting as a a private citizen versus a public school employee, you should be disclosing that the thoughts that you are are sharing are yours as a private citizen and not yours as a public school employee. Um, in one of the law reviews, a a court case came up and they someone who was a government
078figure basically took down somebody's comments on a post that they had which they couldn't do because they were acting as a public figure on this particular website. So like they were saying like that was protected speech and people could post on that. So I mean there are court cases where you know people have made decisions. What I I would encourage us not to get into trying to analyze what the lie is this meeting. >> Well, I I I'm not Is that okay? >> No, I just don't You ask whatever question you want. I just don't think we should try and lay out what the boundaries are. There are boundaries there. They're complicated. We could analyze them. I just don't think we should spend this meeting trying to spell all that out. That's my >> it
079I guess. Okay. Then then my comment would be >> the first amendment, not this policy. >> Oh, okay. So, I'm just gonna ask my question then if Leo wants me to not talk about it. We can just not talk about it. I trust Leo. So, so I mean, let's say I write a letter to the Post Dispatch. I'm a Jason Gro is a 11th grade American history teacher, you know, or history teacher, you know, writes a letter to the Post Dispatch how hard it is to be an educator. It's in the public domain where I I'm at Clayton High School, but I don't have to say that in the letter, you know, is that um like at what I guess there might need to be some clarity over at what point do we cross the
080line on that? >> Are you signing off your letter Jason public educator school district or are you signing off Jason? >> Jason Gro, I I'm a teacher >> and that's your picture or something like that. I I think that those would be judgment calls that we would have to make and we would Okay. >> Call our attorney to decide if it was protected speech or not. >> Okay. >> Um and in those cases, like even if if we can't um discipline, let's just say for whatever that is, there are other conversations we can have just about, you know, how we can >> Yeah. >> respect our community, our staff, our students, our evaluating administr, you know, whatever the case might be. >> Yeah. >> In that article that we >> Okay, fair enough. on number
081four. Um the what's highlighted in pink is that which draft is that? >> So that >> has that been approved yet or not? >> Yeah, that came from um Pam actually earlier today. >> Okay, good. Because I was going to say I was curious too how we define what professional and respectful manner is and this gives more clarity to it. I was curious where it came from. >> Yep. So Pam submitted that earlier today. Um that's number four, handling disagreements with colleagues in a professional and respectful manner. that was already in the policy as is now. So the suggestion was that we consider this includes refraining from disparaging comments about colleagues or the district, avoiding conduct that undermines the work of others, and addressing concerns through appropriate internal channels. >> Good. I liked that. I
082was curious where that came from. So that's Thank you, Pam, because I do think that needed some more clarity. It was so vague for >> Nina. Do you have any questions or comments >> about this one? Okay. Probably smart. Um Yeah, she is. Uh, so again, this is just a first reading. Kelly will bring our suggestions to um MSBA for approval so the legal team can make sure what we're suggesting, we will see it for a second reading. And if she's incorporated everything we're suggesting and we're okay with it, we can approve it next time or have another reading if we feel like we need to. Are there any other questions or comments though on this before we move on? Okay. Thank you everybody. Um okay, moving to agenda item six or action items um
0836.1. I move that the board approve the resolution authorizing the cooperation agreement between the St. Louis County Board of Elections Commission and the School District of Clayton for the 2026 municipal elections. >> Second. It's been moved and seconded. Any questions or comments on this one? This is basically um we just did this for the first time last year, letting um those who wish to file to run for board of education to file at the board of elections versus in our office, just so everyone understands. Okay. All those in favor? >> I. Any opposed? No. Okay. That motion passes. That was the only action item. So onto our consent agenda one. >> Oh yeah, consent should just be one. Just read that first one. It says 7.2 through 72. >> I move that the board approve
084consent agend agenda items 7.2 through 7.12. >> Second. >> Good. Okay. Any questions or comments on consent? >> Items. >> The only question that I have is whether is it the first year that we're um the catalyst students are re are receiving credit from Missouri State University. >> They've received it from SIL before. Has it been Missouri State before? >> Delena saying yes. Dr. Gargano saying this is not not the first year. >> It's not the first year. Okay. >> Okay. All those in favor? I. Any opposed? Okay. Consent agenda passes. Okay. Moving on to our presentation. Um, architect introductions and progress updates from John Brazil. >> Good evening. Um, in June of this year, we selected architects for uh multiple projects and tonight we want to introduce them to you and give you a
085progress update on the work that's occurred over the summertime. Uh, the first set of projects was awarded to the collaboration between Paragon Architecture and Perkins and Will and they'll be working on our elementary school buildings as well as the academic wing for the high school. So, at this time, I'd like to introduce that team to you. >> Come on forward, folks. >> Good evening. It's great to be back here and good to see you all again. It's a exciting moment to carry forth all the work that uh we did together last year um related to long range facility master plan and carrying that forward. Um I'm skip ahead one slide here or so. Um there we go. Um yeah, last year I was I had a senior daughter and here exactly a year later I'm
086going to have a college uh daughter next week. So, um, it's been a fun year to be, uh, and you've got to see me through the whole thing. So, um, have Mike Young Love with me as well. Mike has been part of the project all through last year. He's going to be one of our main representatives, uh, during the project, especially from the day-to-day project management. The difference that you see there is Stephen, Amy. Um, as we were going through this process last year, you guys really challenged us in a lot of good ways and a lot of the conversations we had were related to the future of education. And Steve and I have developed a relationship over the years looking for the right opportunity to partner together on this on on some projects. And
087in the back of my mind, I was saying if we get the opportunity to bring Steve and Amy into this, they're the team that we have to be partnered with to to launch. And so we'll leave it up to Steve and Amy to talk a little bit. >> Hi, good to see all of you again. There are many of you who we've met. Um Amy Yuckman. I am a principal and architect at Perkins and Will and have been working on K through2 schools for the past 26 years at Perkins and Will. It's been my lifelong love and uh great place that you know we we love to um work with our K12 clients. So thanks for having us. and I'm Steve Turks, uh, principal with Perkinsville. Brad, thanks for the gracious words. Um, it's a
088pleasure to be here. As Amy mentioned, uh, several of you have been active in our workshop so far that we're going to share a little bit more information with you tonight. Um, like Amy, I have focused my career on public, mostly public K through2 education. That work has literally taken us across the country and around the world. So, we are really, really delighted to be here with you in St. Louis. Um, we've got several other clients here in the St. Louis area in Lindberg and Leoo. So, we're happy to add Clayton to that mix. Delighted to be here. So, we're going to jump into it. Uh, we are just finished last week workshop. We're talk about the elementaryaries and and the high school. Just last week finished workshop number two with the elementary schools and
089our first meeting with the the high school. So, let me talk about the elementary schools first. So, the big picture is on the screen for you. We're going to share a little bit more information about each one of these, but these workshops are really geared toward having working with the uh the educators, uh community members, several board members that are in the room around the future of what your elementary school is going to look like. kind of education that you want that you foresee happening not just today but in the future in these buildings and how how the facilities can best support that. So really that in a nutshell is what the uh the workshops are about. As we go through the this series of workshops, we start with talking about the big picture, the
090vision. And by the time we get through the third one, um we will have space programs. We'll have conceptualized diagrams for each of the buildings and working with the CM uh some cost numbers to to share with those. Uh the last last week we uh we had great great half-day workshops with each of the elementary schools where we started looking at the space programs and had those had the folks edit those. So we're going to describe that to you here. Um at the very first workshop we asked folks to come prepared with what we called an aspirational object. Jason I think you're in the picture there. We have different trousers on, it looks like. So, we're good there. Keep it simple. That's always good. Um, we ask folks to show up with what we call
091an aspirational object. And this is an object that represents your vision around the future of the elementary schools. And it's really the vision piece of it, not so much the object, but the vision piece of it that was the important part of it. So we ask people to introduce themselves and explain why they brought the object that they did. So it's it's a bit of an icebreaker, but it's also really helps us begin to you know understand sort of the you know where folks minds are relative to their vision. So we took a lot of the words and we created this wordle and as you've I'm sure I've seen these before the words that show up the biggest and the most often are the things that got talked about the most. So what's really nice
092about the image on the screen is the word that shows up the biggest there is students and so there was a huge focus on students uh which is always you know it's always a nice thing to hear and students show up in a number of different forms you know the word student shows up the word kids shows up but so does community so do families spaces and it's good from an architecture standpoint it's good that people were talking about spaces creativity flexibility u so those kinds of things uh really uh speak to us in terms of uh what you know sort of people's mindset when they were walking in the room that that morning. We did a series of exercises. One of those that we did was we broke folks into the the the uh
093the committee into small groups and had them think about and talk with each other about what are some principles that really should drive this work. And we c we call these guiding principles for that reason. Uh there were eight major sort of themes that came out of this and there's lots of words. I understand these are printed and that you the board members have these. So we're happy to answer any questions about these. But we did show these back to the committee members last week when we met with them and asked for their input on these. But big themes around learner centered environments around spaces that are flexible and future ready about the integration of community. The community after all is a big part of these buildings uh around safety wellness around sustainability and environmental
094stewardship. and so on. And so the idea with these though is as we begin to uh bring forth solutions and vet solutions with the committee and the community that these are things we're constantly looking back at, are we are we living up to these guiding principles? Are we honoring these guiding principles? So they're important um in that regard. So we kept you all very busy for the last couple of workshops and continued on our build um of information to understand space needs and how those guiding principles would start to relate to that. Um so we looked at the activities that you do in your day-to-day now and um in the future as well and talked about a few things that were mentioned in the guiding principles like outdoor learning, small group work, collaboration um etc.
095And um out of that we came back in the next workshop with um the program trees. So this is the captain example but we had one for each elementary. Um these are representing each space in the potential new new or renovated facility. Um and they're relatively sized to each other just so we're not looking at spreadsheets all the time. This is another way of doing it. Um and we asked the small groups in the workshop to um look at what they thought was missing. What didn't we hear right? Um what what do they think is too much or could be removed? Um maybe we didn't name something correctly or they wanted to rethink it. um and what could be uh combined or shared um or put together so that it could be an an really
096efficient use of space. We like to say make space, work hard, that something's not s sitting idle um during the day that you're really not just building a one time a day type of space. So um they they uh got together in their small groups and reviewed those and we've got that coming out of that second workshop. We also reviewed with the in the second workshop um what the options might look like when we come back. Um and there are several that uh came about during the master plan that uh are are moving forward. And this is not uh one or two. It's a combination. It could be any combination um for for each of the elementarymentaries. Um renovation to different levels um and additions is option one for all the elementarymentaries. And then the
097possibility of new schools um for captain that would be the same site or potentially a different site and the same site for Glenidge or Marramck. So those are what we will be coming back with conceptual options for our third workshop. Uh this is what our work looked like just last week. Um turning everybody into architects. Um it was a lot of fun and this is what the outcomes were for each of the groups. So we asked um to take those spaces and uh tell us how you want them to fit together. What's important to you from an adjacency standpoint? How do you want uh the teaching and learning spaces to be arranged? And so a a few these are a few diagram examples of what that looks like. And believe it or not, these will
098be turned into architecture. Um and then I'll turn it over to Brad. >> Yes. So Amy covered a lot of the work that we did at the elementary school when we uh met with the high school last week. Our our scope of work is a little bit more focused over there. So we really had kind of centered on two different areas of the high school. One is over on the performing arts side and the second is over on the west side of the building just over here. So, um, the conversation really, uh, was about on the auditorium specifically, and the the staff brought up a lot of good points about the accessibility to the stage for students. Um, potentially a light renovation of the lobby area to make it more functional. Looking at some light
099refreshes to like, for example, the restrooms. Um, is there potential for new seats? And then just taking care of some minor acoustic and HVAC needs back in the classrooms. And pulling back, this was just a diagram that we used within the master plan, but really focusing in on that red area of the of the project to make it more functional on an everyday use as best as we can to kind of get some of that low hanging fruit, not really involve any of the other level one or level two type things that we talked about elsewhere on the on the building. Then when we move over to the west side, again, these are diagrams that we had in the master plan with just some slight adjustments with a lot of that focus on the geometry
100and construction program, which is the new program, the robotics. So, it's providing them some ample space for daily use. Um, bringing the AMP program and the school store together and a lot of good conversations about where that store might be located. Um then the catalyst program bringing that on campus and how to um be able to integrate students from other uh high schools, other school districts into the building and still provide the safety and security. And then as we're doing that work, is there some opportunity for improvements of other classrooms? So especially in that area, we have a lot of math classrooms. Several of those classrooms don't have access to daylight. And so as we're looking at at that areas, uh looking at ways to improving those classrooms and maybe others and then again restrooms
101were a big part of uh the conversation related to bringing those facilities up. And so while we're doing the work over in that area as there are some opportunity to improve those restrooms as well and there's a lot of good relationships there with some of the existing programs that exist on the west side of the building. So really capitalizing on there on on the success of those facilities and talked a little bit about the the site and how to protect the the driveway, the drive lanes, access to the shop, not impact negatively impacting Adzik Field. We understand there's going to be some utilities over there. We just have to figure out where they are and and how to reroute them or avoid them. But a lot of really good interaction. Uh we had I think
102we had about 15 or more um staff members there for that meeting and it was really good conversation. So this is the slide that you already saw, but really wanted to put this into perspective of where we're where we're going down the line. So this is kind of the real immediate detail that we're working around. And then this is really the the the plan that we're working around right now. And so the area within that orange box is kind of that current future. Um, and I just wanted to highlight we're really looking at this very similar to what we did with the master plan where every meeting, every week is very planned out and very intentional. I'll skip ahead because realistically we're kind of keeping the end in mind. Um, right. So, at in January
103at the board meeting, you need to if you choose to move forward with a with a bond ballot, that language has to be approved at the January 21st board meeting, which really means at the December 10th meeting, we need to have really hard really hard decisions in place because you need that time to work uh on that ballot language. So backing up from there is essentially we're trying to get you a ton of information October 8th for that board meeting because between October 8th and December 10th there's a lot of work that we have to do on our side. So, we can go into a little bit more of those details with you specifically, but we're really kind of working backwards, working forwards, backwards, forwards, and working within um the board uh meeting dates and
104the board retreat dates to be able to provide you with that information uh needed to make the decision. So, in between there, um as Dr. Dr. Patel mentioned before, we'll have some surveys. We'll have community engagement. Um, but it's going to be very intentional, very deliberate, and we are literally planning out meetings three months in advance and we're week by week. Um, our team is meeting um weekly with uh John and and Dr. Patel, making sure that we're staying on track. Um and then looking at those opportunities to engage you um in addition to all of the different workshops and all the different engagement pieces that we have with faculty, students, staff, and the community. So this is just this is kind of it's constantly a work in progress. We're we're looking at this on
105a weekly basis um and making revisions to make sure very similar to what we did with the master plan that should new information come up, we've got a plan in place and some flexibility we can adjust. We also know that we have to provide you with information in a timely manner to give you that opportunity for, you know, for feedback loop, for questions, for discussions to be able to process that information. And we think we've built that in. But again, December 10th is when we'll probably will need to have those uh decisions. We've got that December 2nd board retreat that will help process that, work together to process that information. and we're going to be providing you with a lot of information on October 8th because we're going to be looking for some feedback at
106that point so that we can have those 60 days to really put a lot of information together. It's not the only time that we're going to talk, but that 60-day period, there's going to be a lot of work on our plate to be able to set the district up for success in the spring. >> That was it. We thank you and appreciate the opportunity to be here with you through this next phase. >> Thank you. Thank you all for being here. >> Um, >> I just have a quick question. On October 8th, you just said you're going to give us a lot of information. Will that include cost estimates or those not coming till the December 10th? >> We plan on having uh the preliminary costs actually in September. >> Great. Um, and then >>
107it wasn't listed till the uh correct cost till December 10th. So, I just want to make sure. >> So, yeah. So, I I'll back up one slide here. So that workshop number three where we get back in front of the um it'll be very similar information that we present at the workshops and that will be at the community engagement session as well. Okay. And it'll be high level cost because they'll have about a less than a month to work with us to put that through. And then based on the feedback that we get at those meetings, we'll further define the approach, the design, they'll further define the pricing. We'll continue to work through those iterations and evolutions. I just wanted to say to for for the rest of the board, Chris and I were at
108the workshops last week with these guys and I was so impressed by how well they understand education truly like you guys use all the right language um you know that that we do in you know internally in the district and it was so helpful I think for the staff to have you really understand how schools work and how they need to work in the future. Um the I thought the exercises were so great and everyone was so engaged and it was a great diverse group of stakeholders. It wasn't only teachers and even within the group of teachers, there's an SSD teacher and there's a librarian. You know, everyone was represented. Um there were a couple parents in each of the meetings as well. Um assistant, administrative assistants, a custodial staff, a nurse, a counselor. So,
109um, it was a great group of perspectives on how spaces are are used and and how they're used differently in each of the three elementary schools was also really interesting for me >> to listen to. >> I just I appreciate Misha you mentioning what you did. I want to say that I really loved that you helped the staff and all of us, you know, us included, look at how innovative we are in our teaching and learning and yet how far behind we are in in our facilities. You use that Jetsons versus Flintstones and it's just exciting. I could tell, you know, the energy in those rooms and those workshops. I mean, they are so excited to finally have space that really reflects the kind of innovative things they're doing in their classroom. And we heard
110that during the master plan process a lot is that they felt like the the facilities were starting to hold them back. >> Yes. >> And that if they had just a little bit of help from the facilities, how much more they could do. >> Yeah. >> And they said that in the workshops last week like we think our thinking is towards the Jetsons but we are hindered. Yeah. >> By these buildings >> and that was very that was very clear. >> Thank you all very much. Anyone else have any questions or comments on the presentation? So I just have one question along that same thread. So sometimes um individuals aren't that great at self assessment and you guys have the benefit of having been in schools as you said um you know here locally whether
111it's Lindberg or Leoo or even internationally and so in your assessment where do you think our schools facilities are on the spectrum of Flintstones to Jetsons if Jetsons are a 10 and Flintstones are a zero? You know, it's interesting. Um, the the era in which your, you know, Glenidge and Marramac were built, we're talking now what nearly 100 years ago, >> but there was actually some, you know, a modicum of flexibility built into those buildings. Capin is a very different building obviously, and it's it was designed with these sort of, you know, almost open plans, grade level areas. So it's it is indicative of the era in which it was built. The 1970s was you know the late 60s and early 70s that was kind of the open plan era and it's interesting that they
112remain open. Actually many of those schools partitions went up at some point to close them back in and that's partly due to the teaching that was trying to be done in those was still the type of teaching that was in Marramac or Glenidge. Right. you know, from a I'm used to being in my own room type of thing. So, I think your I think your facilities are, you know, there's some mix there in terms of what you've got. Um, but it's but there's a long way that you can go at the same time, right? So that's I think that's where it's going to be interesting to see how do we take all these ideas from the workshops that we've had so far and now overlay that on top of those existing buildings and see how
113could we start to transform them to push them in the in the direction that the teachers like to take them. And by and large in the in the workshops I think there was a lot of forward thinking in those diagrams about how they wanted their ideal um you know core academic spaces to be arranged um how they wanted to work as a team that was clear across all the elementaryaries that there was you know this team approach to to teaching at that at their grade level. So um some common things and some that are a little bit different at each school. agree with what you said. >> Amy talked about a slide that was up on the screen that was called activity mapping. And this is always a telltale for me and that is how
114they talk about that. The gist of that is talk to us about the day in the life of or the week in the life of a student. What kind of work should they actively be doing? And if the answer comes back well sitting in lectures all day, then that tells you something, right? That's not what happens here. And I think you probably all know that. But there's a little bit of time and then it's what they call the launch now working on you know individual things projects group where that was very in instructive for us I think to be able to say okay um you know they're they're trying they're really you know working toward that sort of future ready side on the teaching and learning perspective but you can you can tell from their
115conversations that the facilities like they could do so many more things if the facilities didn't get in their way so >> yeah I I think they mentioned at all three of the schools really um >> that they really would love to do more um collaborative work and have shared spaces among the grade levels and >> Glenn and Marax certainly don't have that ability at all >> but that community feeling and wanting you know the three classrooms in a grade to have some shared space that they can collaborate co-e teach together >> and um >> and what was >> I heard that a lot >> exact I did I did too and what's neat about this is the idea A that not only will our our faculty and our students and everybody now have this large
116group space, but we're going to have because of the plans and because of what we need, there's going to all these little tiny rooms. So, in addition to having the big places where we all get to come together, there's going to be these small places where one or two or three students are being worked with on whatever specific thing they need. It's going to change. And right now we have kids doing that in the hallway. Sure. Right. With and so we're trying to give them the education that this individualized one or two people need but it has to happen in the hallway. Now that won't be the case. Now there we are planning out these places where smaller groups can really get this really powerful instruction. I just think it's going to make a huge
117difference. >> Thank you. And thank you in advance for what's to come. >> Thank you. Appreciate you being here. >> Thank you. Okay, we will move on now to 8.2, which is our construction manager at risk. >> BLD. >> Oh, >> we have one more presentation. >> Oh, I apologize. >> Um, >> the other architect we selected was BLDD Architects. Uh, their package of work relates to our outdoor athletic facilities. And so, I'd like to uh have them introduce themselves and give you an update as well. >> Thank you. Sorry, I jumped ahead. Wrong page. >> Good evening and thanks for letting us come tonight. I recognize a few faces um but pleasure meeting the rest of you. So um what we'd like to do is just give a brief history overview of BD Architects.
118Um, we'll get into some introductions, a little project spotlights, and then get into the schedule a little bit, and then a broad kind of overview of the scope of the athletic projects. Um, they're intentionally broad because our workshops start on Monday of committee workshop meetings. So, we'll get into more depth over the next coming months. Um, so, uh, BL was started 1929 in Decator, Illinois. So, we're coming up on 100 years. Um, we've got 65 employees spread across our different offices. Um, 80% of our work is K through 12 work. Um, that's what we know. That's what we're good at. Um, and that's why we're here today. So, my name is Justin Plac. Um, principal in charge of this project. I manage our St. Louis office. Both my parents were high school teachers. Both of
119them were also high school coaches. I think I've spent half my life in schools um to what I know to what I do. So um also with me today, Laura Wonderlick. She's a senior associate u one of our best project managers out of our St. Louis office. And then I've got Nelson Musoka. He's a project team members. He's going to do a lot of the lion share of the production as we get into these projects. Two people that'll be instrumental. They couldn't be here tonight. You'll see them in the future. I think you've met them. A few of you have met them in the in the past. But one is John Whitlock. He's our president. He's also our athletic facility specialist. And then Todd Sterillic, he's also principal and our education design director. So, you
120will see plenty of them in the future. Uh, like I said, we've been in business since 1929. We've done a lot of athletic facility projects for our various clients. Uh, these are just some background numbers um for you all. Couple project spotlights. Um again top left uh bowl stadium replacement for Springfield Landere that's a football field with soccer as well as the track and bleacher box etc. Williamsville another highlighted project on the top right and bottom right uh again full stadium replacement for that school district. Then we've also done uh bleacher replacement and press box for Kirkwood school district. Uh Laura will get into the project schedule and then we'll get into a little bit of kind of what we've been up to so far. >> Our project schedule, as you can see on the
121dates up on the screen, our project kickoff was July 29th. So we've got some work ahead of us, but we're super excited about um learning about all the needs for the district and the community. Um we got a lot of information from our scope meeting which was just on August 5th. Um learned a lot about the um collaboration between the district and the city of Clayton. Um so our we have our first two committee workshops scheduled. One the first in the week of August 18th and then one be the week of September 1st. Um we want to get those two workshops in before our community meeting on uh September uh 10th and then after that community meeting we'll schedule our third workshop. Um, basically, you know, we've uh invested in um learning about the school
122district and the city of Clayton and the community wants and there's a lot of information, a lot of um wants and needs and not a lot of space to uh you know, make all those wishes come true. So, that's our challenge ahead of us. And um I think our next slide is maybe Nelson can talk about why down. >> Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Nelson's going to get in a little bit of wind down. Um we'll get into improvements at Adzik Field and then really the other high school improvements uh both the Gayfield site as well as the uh our current site here park. >> Right. U so for Wound Middle School, we're uh going forward thinking about the update of the turf grass areas with more resilient solution um as well as adding a walking track
123of uh three lanes. Um and then moving forward, we do an improvement of safety and security as well as enhancing the learning environment and competition quality um the field. >> So during the interview process as well as meeting with AD Steve Hudson and Christine, we're able to really understand some of the challenges with this Wound Middle School site. certainly were well aware of the uh park instructor underneath half of that and some of the challenges that the district has had to maintain that field for full use. Um I think even meeting with Christine there's 90 students every 90 minutes on that. So just trying to maintain that um a very safe environment um and very durable. That's that's something we'll really get into in the future um and provide a few different options for the
124district to explore as well as the community to provide input on. um high school scope. Um the first one is really as a field, the baseball field. It's really completing that field um up to the Clayton school district standards. So what we're really talking about is replacing those dugouts um with brick dugouts that kind of gives that Clayton pride to this whole area as well as that press box, making sure that that brick goes along with it. Um I think there's probably opportunities to uh improve that with a few small restrooms down there, possibly concessions. we get into the project. Um the big thing and this is something that we'll work through in the next couple workshops, the community engagement, but it's really what is going to happen at either the Gayfield site um with
125the existing stadium and the upgrades that are needed there and possibly the last line item um which is probably the most important and probably the largest opportunity and the most exciting is exploring shared opportunities with the city of Clayton and how this can affect of the school district of Clayton. Um I think what's important for the I guess the challenges that we've been tasked to solve it's really improving the outdoor PE and program support space for these for these athletic facilities. um improving the safety and security of all these spaces, improve the competition environment as well as all the facilities uh either the Gayfield site uh ADIC, the Shaw Park area um as well as White Out allow for program growth and through these uh solutions really reducing practice schedule scheduling issues, game scheduling issues
126throughout both the fall and the spring. Um As I mentioned, the biggest thing is just exploring the shirt opportunities with shop park. So that's where we stand right now. Um next week is when we get there at the exciting um moment to meet with the workshop committees, gather a lot of information, a lot of collaboration, hands-on activities um and then bring this forward to you guys at the next port. >> So that is that's all we have for you tonight. Um we're excited to be here. >> Thank you so much. I'm curious when you say safety and security what you're referring to. Is that traffic flow or actual security? >> Yeah, some of it could be traffic flow. It's um with Gayfield being a quarter mile away, it's how are we monitoring that site if
127that's where we're doing renovations. >> Uh there's certain issues that um the public of using these facilities. Um even though they I know you guys try not to lit them um or at least schedule it. So challenges with uh students or school personnel showing up and just uh outside um users already there and trying to get our the space back. Right. So I would say just challenges with safety and security during school day as well as after hours. >> Thank you. Any other questions or comments for the LDN? And that will probably become a little bit more important as we explore the opportunities with the city of Clayton and what can and cannot go at Shaw Park. Right now we're going to be introducing more facilities around um the larger community in times. >> Well,
128thank you so much for that presentation. It's exciting. Appreciate you being here. >> Thank you. Thanks for the time. >> Thank you. Does anyone need a bio break before we get into these interviews? Everyone good? What? >> All right, let's go. Okay. 8.2 is the construction manager at risk um services for facility projects. As we build our team on these facility developments, um the next team member to be added is the construction manager. Uh in earlier conversations this year, we decided to go down that path of construction manager at risk. Uh we've selected we've received RFQS for this proposal. We had three companies submit. I've laid that out in the narrative to you. Um, we also solicited RFPs from them for cost structures and contract provisions. And the next step in this process is an
129interview before this body. Um, policy and statute require that it be an open session. Uh, we've provided you some suggested questions. You're free to ask any question you want. We have two firms to be interviewed tonight. The first one will be SM Wilson. Um and you can proceed through your interview process and then after that BSI constructors will be the second interview. The third party uh we did not request they are nothing nothing to dismerge them at all. They're an up and cominging firm. We just didn't believe they had the bonding capacity and financial capacity to handle our projects. So I'm going to ask the firm that's not being interviewed. We'll put them in a side room out of professional courtesy to let the other firm be interviewed. The first one again is SM Wilson
130and I think Patrick Ellsworth is their lead partner. >> Thank you. >> So just as a um just to clarify the procedure here for the board um there are six of us here tonight. You'll see we have 12 questions. So we're each going to ask two. Uh, we will go around the table. Like John said though, if any of us have any additional or follow-up questions, please feel free to ask them. Everyone should have a sheet in front of them with the interview questions. Feel free to take notes so that we can make an informed decision later. Thank you so much. Okay. Want to make sure everyone's settled. Okay. So, like John said, this is SM Wilson here presenting to us first. >> Yes. Correct. Right. Um, your microphones need to be turned on green
131when you're speaking, just as a reminder. All right, thank you very much everyone. Good evening and uh we appreciate the opportunity to be here. Uh real quick before we get into the our presentation, we just want to introduce ourselves. Uh I'm Mark Cochran. I'm the chief operating officer for SM Wilson. >> I'm Nicole Vanderhar, project director. Uh my role be the day-to-day project contact for you through construction that oversee the construction management team. >> Patrick Gailworth, market executive for us in Wilson. My role is to basically make sure our projects are a success for the district and to align our resources with your needs and your goals. >> My name is Mike Ashley. My role in this project would be general superintendent. I do uh the dayto day with the teams in the field to
132make sure that the quality controls being followed. >> Hi, I'm Bonner, chief marketing officer and with you uh in your packet you have a skilled program and I run the skilled program for us. a way for us to engage the student body throughout construction and turn it into an interactive learning experience. I'll also give you warning the little booklets and your things play a video automatically. So, I would save that for later. I'm really supports So, as we go through this tonight, we're going to really share a lot of our unique qualifications uh and items we bring to the table to you as a district, and we will use a custom website that we've designed specifically for Clayton schools. This is something for our presentation tonight, but it's also something that we will use in
133the future in the project, and Nicole will cover some of those things. I will encourage you, we will not get through all the cont that's on that. There's some great videos of our team members that aren't here today uh talking about this project and their excitement about it. There is a QR code on your placemat. Feel free uh to take a look at that in the future. Um so saying all that, you know, we've spent the last two months really digging into this project, studying the demographics study, the community engagement process, the long-term master facilities plan, and really drove the team we assembled, and you'll hear more about that and our proposal we put together. So, uh, we're really excited about that. And listening to the discussions earlier today, it reinforces our belief that we
134understand that schools and building these buildings, there's a lot more than that. The building is just a very small part of this. And the, you know, really the deep impact that schools have on the livelihood of communities and the future of communities. Uh, just sharing Annabella's story. This uh past weekend, I snuck my two daughters into a middle school that we're renovating with BLDD and just watching, it's a hundred-y old building. Watching their eyes light up and having that go, "Dad, this is amazing." They're sending pictures to their their friends and, you know, it just makes me think about it's more than just pouring concrete at the end of the day. So, that's really how we approach a lot of the work we do. And you'll see that as we go through here, our processes,
135programs, we've created efficiencies with our vast experiences with school districts throughout uh both Missouri and Illinois, including your district uh when we built white out middle school and worked at the high school previously. So, you know, all those things being said is our promise to you is we're going to execute this program through the lens of you, the students, the community, the parents, the staff. That's our our promise to you and we'll put them first. everything else. As we go through this, recognize that we're a much smaller part of your overall vision. At the end of day, again, we're going to build a building. That's a lot more for us at the end of the day. We want to ensure your vision of educating, inspiring, empowering is communicated, and we uphold that ability for you
136uh with these new facilities as we move forward. So, as we go through the rest of the presentation, you'll hear some of those unique uh attributes and solutions and values we'll bring. The team will will jump into that. Patrick, >> thanks Mark. Want to highlight some of the keys to success for Clayton is really the pre-bond planning services. And so this is a significant differentiator for SM Wilson. We have a wealth of experience doing the pre-bond planning services for over 20 successful pre-bond projects, including two here at Clayton for WO down in your high school. At SM Wilson, our process is really specifically designed around public K12 work. And please remember there's six of us here tonight for presentation. There's many team members back at home office that are chomping at the bit to get
137involved. Stepping back, we understand the critical dates ahead of us. We understand that September, October, you obviously want to get your community involved. That's really important. At the end of December for your board meeting, the bond language needs to be finalized with that funding to support these projects. and finally next April for the vote to go to ballot. So, we're going to work with that end in mind and hit these milestones and make sure that the projects are successful, you know, set up for those milestones. I also want to highlight our collaboration with your design firms. We've delivered eight uh education building programs with your design firms collecting a total of $270 million. And really, step one here is aligning scope and budget. And so all these projects are important whether we're talking about the
138high school, your athletic upgrades, and your elementary schools. We're going to help drive the priorities to establish some confidence when it comes to the budget and the schedule. Paragon already has some great work here that we can look at for the master facility plan. But specifically with your elementary schools, you know, doing some feasibility studies and some cost models to give your board the information they need to make some decisions and get your community involved there. With a northstar being your budget, as the RFP says, maybe $100 million, we'll use that as our guiding light and make sure we're a good steward of the district funds. This will be a transparent process. We make recommendations to the board and we'll also work to keep the team on track. We're ready to roll up our sleeves
139and get involved in this process getting with the design firms programming sketches to develop some pricing on these projects and really set up these collaboration meetings to get going. Some examples of projects that SM Wilson's completed that are very similar to Clayton include Leoo, Patentville, Northwest, Jeff City, and Columbia. To highlight some winds that we bring do, for instance, is really getting creative and working on temporary classrooms inside their buildings to help move the students around to help unlock areas for renovations. This saved the district millions of dollars avoiding temporary trailers. The other piece is the phasing was critical for those projects. So, we worked with Perkins and Will to get that memorialized into the bidding documents. Switching gears to Northwest. The win there was target value delivery and working with Paragon to maximize the
140amount of projects we could build for Northwest. And again, all these projects I mentioned are on track to be on schedule and under budget. With that, I'll hand it to our team lead, Nicole. >> Hi, thank you, Patrick. Um, I'm Nicole Vanderar, project uh director. Um, my role as the project director is to be your main project contact for the project. Um, I would be overseeing the project team on a day-to-day basis all the way from pre-construction through completion to provide you with a consistent team and a consistent delivery. Um, throughout the project, we will have this um, custom website that will house a financial dashboard um, similar to what we see there um, to kind of give you an update financial status. At any point you can go on there and get an update
141of where we are in the project. It'll also house project photo updates and uh weekly project updates. Um this is a great tool that we could use um at board meetings giving updates on where we are with each of the projects. Um as well as it just could be used for the community um sharing updates. I'm sure they'll be interested in knowing what's going on. Um if there's an area of the school that has to be closed down for renovation, it could help with that communication for parents picking up, dropping off. um pretty much an open communication platform to help with that um construction process because we know sometimes that can be confusing through the the chaos but trying to make that easy and making that an open collaborative process. Um honestly through this our
142our goal for you is to give this an efficient and the most collaborative approach that we can so you can oversee and manage these projects with us. um to share some of my recent experience. Um I am currently wrapping up a school project with Columbia Public Schools. It was a 66 million dollar project on their three campuses. Um first one was a brand new elementary school. We built that from the ground up, a two-story, 76,000 square foot new building. It's beautiful. Um turning it over for school. Um second one is an addition onto an um elementary school. um adding on a storm shelter and the third one is an addition and renovation um onto their career area technical school. Our team that we've put together has an amazing experience working with school districts and um
143we have so much experience working with multiple project location such as yours as well as occupied campuses. I'll pass it over to Mike Ashley to talk about his general superintendent role. >> Thanks Nicole. Uh, evening everyone. Um, what I'm going to bring to the table is basically oversight of the project. Um, I've spent the majority of my career doing school work. Um, my last two jobs have been with the Leoo school district. I've done both of those bond projects, did the high school, and most recently I did the uh preschools in their system over there um that we did during COVID, which was a challenge in itself, but we brought all those on in time. Um, some of the things that I typically do and that we have all of our guys do is get
144involved with the neighbors. Um there's been times where uh I do um one instance over there was uh you know I worked as a crossing guard one couple weekends uh trying to help some of the students go across but one of the things I want to emphasize is is safety. Um it's very set up in such a way to where with the experience that we bring to it is is that I make sure that our guys are isolated from your staff and your students. We try to act as if it's totally isolated area and that works well. Um, you know, we all know what goes on in schools nowadays with some of the things and so we're very conscious of that. Um, we try to enforce it to make sure that I don't have students
145under me, but I have a lot of construction workers that uh they need a lot of guidance and so that's what we do is we try to make sure that they understand that these are the uh policies that we have in place. Um, I get involved in the very beginning. Um, get involved in the pre- in the uh design part of it. Uh we do the pre-construction. Um I also get involved um I take it personally. I do live next to a school so I bring bring that in and uh I try to and consider that uh you know the neighbors are a big part of living around a school. Um excuse me. The other thing that uh communication is key and one of the ways that uh I kind of instituted over at Leoo
146which worked really well was that our superintendent will send out a daily email um to your staff members and typically it's the principal and then maybe some of your maintenance guys um directors to let them know what we're anticipating that day. Um I also like feedback from the district because we're a team. um what you've got going on and where I'm going to go with that is is that we've had a couple instances where you guys have had uh grandparents day. Well, guess what? There's probably twice as many cars there that day and it impacts us. So, it's it's great to have communication both ways which uh works out really well. But, uh the other thing is is I establish a lot of relationships with a lot of your staff. Um, I've gone back to
147Leoo High School recently doing a couple things over there that we had some uh, uh, security upgrades and, uh, principal came up to me, Brad, knew me from a job that we did basically seven years ago. Um, you know, we're on a firstname basis. Um, we worked very well together. So, um, that's what we're going to be looking for is the same type of relationship with you guys. Um, that's basically what I'm going to do and I'll turn it over to Patrick. >> Thanks, Mike. SM Wilson is committed to go beyond the build for Clayton. This is not a standard project team. We have handpicked our team members to best fit Clayton's needs and they've all de helped deliver future focused learning environments. We're not going to just estimate these projects. We're going to proactively
148establish the budgets to bring solutions to the table. We're not just going to build safely. We're also going to knock on doors with your community and so your neighbors are aware of our construction operations. This commitment is from the top down from our president Mike Yasbeck all the way through our home office and team members that'll work for you. We're committed to your community with our skilled program, website, building tours, videos, and social media just to name a few to get in touch with your kids and your community. Over the next six months, SM Wilson will partner with the administration, the board, and staff. your design firms that help solidify a program that delivers future ready learning spaces, meeting the needs of your community, and setting a stage for a successful, excuse me, bond issue.
149That concludes our presentation. Thank you so much and open for questions or clarifications. >> Thank you so much. That was great. I appreciate it. Appreciate so many of you being here. Um, as I mentioned earlier, we we prepared 12 questions. There are six of us board members here. So, I think we'll go around twice so that we each ask two. And I would just um again to the board if you have follow-up questions, clarifying questions, additional questions, please feel free to ask those as well, but I thought we could start with the ones that we've prepared and we'll just go around. We haven't preassigned them. So, I'll just I'll start with Jason and question number one. I'm just going clockwise. That's >> such an honor. No, thank you guys. That was a really great presentation.
150Appreciate the information. Um my question my first question is uh what costs are included in the guaranteed maximum price and what costs are explicitly excluded? >> So when we think about that there's um a discussion when we think about a guarantee maximum price within the contract terms you typically define cost of work and really that is what is required to physically build that space. There are a lot of times u code requires for instance that you have a third party inspection for structural steel as an example that we are not allowed legally for building code to carry the cost that would be a cost that would be outside of that but we as a CM will track a total program budget and that's something that we basically have a responsibility chart that we outline at
151the beginning of the project and we'll have a column that is for owner coster that's for architect cost and we'll we'll sit down and talk about those and outline what those are. Well, before we ever get into a discussion about numbers and then at the end, it's not a situation where, hey, here's a GMP. Oh, yeah. That's that should have been in your bucket. That's as clearly identified in that responsibility matrix for the GMP. >> Thanks. >> Number two. Oh, turn on your mic. Turn on your mic. >> Turn on your mic. Turn on your mic. >> What happens if the project costs exceed the GMP due to unforeseen circumstances? I'm sure that happens actually all the time. So >> Patrick Yeah. So in a lot of ways we have great discussions with our K12
152clients essentially to establish maybe a contingency construction contingency to to basically absorb your your point there is that sometimes there are unforeseen you know soil stabilization uh moisture mitigation in the former uh hot cold weather allowances. Those are discussions that we would love to have again mutually agreeable to understand where those risks lie and to get those line items and there and this is a fully transparent process where we will show you exactly what those line items are and make sure that it's it's agreeable again to to both parties >> and there just to add to that I think there also to Patrick's point if we run into a abandoned fuel tank underground that was not on any reports anything that's an unforeseen condition that would be a discussion about that If if the project
153is running two months behind schedule for no reason besides our management of that and it cost us $200,000 in in cost that's coming out of our fee at the end of the day or if our fee is gone it's coming out of our pocket. So there's there's definitely situations that like that. It's it's determining and defining what an unforeseen condition is. >> Sorry, can I ask a followup question? Maybe and and we don't need to know district names or anything, but maybe you can summarize like a live example of when this has happened and how you guys partnered with your client to resolve the issue. >> Sure. I mean, I think uh >> like I get it like we're all going to sit down, we're going to talk about it. That's great. But like okay,
154so then then what? Right. So how Yeah. How do we work through that together? >> I'll use an example of a schedule where we had a subcontractor who uh went out of business at the end of the day and we had to find that's our liability because it's underneath our our contract. We had to find a replacement subcontractor and deal with the schedule impacts of that and the financial impacts of that. And we SM Wilson ended up paying a lot of money out of our pocket associated with that. That's a situation that wasn't in control or unforeseen. It was a risk we took with construction management risk. I think a lot of times people hear construction management risk, it's Essen Wilson that's at risk for that. That's an example we we took that risk. >>
155Um, another example is we have >> how example would have been turned out bad for us. And that you know what I mean? Like like you found something underground, now you got to say like, "Hey guys, let's sit down and talk about this, right?" Like that's what we're going for here. >> And un like the fuel tank example, we we had a client out in central Missouri that Patrick and I worked on there. They knew there was a a school that had been torn down as an example in this area where they were going to add an addition. The school wanted us to take the unforeseen conditions route and and and own that risk. And we were fine with that. But also one of the things we suggested is let's go spend $2,000 and do
156some exploratory holes and dig up and see if the soil was compacted and did this some other things. So that's part of our job is to partner with you upfront and really dig into these details and try to capture all of potential issues that we have with this job but not be so conservative that you know >> I'm with you. >> Yeah, we we can't do that. We got to align that program and that cost at the end of the day what Patrick talked about in the target value. >> Okay. All right. So, it sounds like in a lot of those cases, you guys are trying to kind of delineate between what is within your sphere of control and what is outside your sphere of control. And a lot of that's going to have to
157do with how much due diligence is done on these sites ahead of time, whether there's a phase one or phase two environmental assessment, those types of things. Because that had been done, you would have known there was a tank underneath, right? And it wouldn't have been an issue to begin with. Um and so as part of your process as we go into this not knowing exactly are we building on existing sites, are we going to new sites? There's so much uncertainty in around the design uncertainty with respect to geography and and the design with where we are in the project right now that how much advice or counsel are you guys giving up front before we get into that so that we can avoid even having to have those discussions? >> That that's our role.
158we we come on board and essentially we're helping to push that due diligence from that consultant in terms of what they can do with a you know phase one phase two we also deploy you know as Mark mentioned a couple thousand dollars to scan you know GPR scan that site and really understand we knew there was old footings there we knew something was there let's find out exactly what it is then let's talk as a team how do we you know define that risk and eliminate that risk essentially for the project >> it looks different so a new build on a new site you're focused on what's underground Once we get out of the ground that the risk discussions go away somewhat. But on the remodel discussions or additions, we're going to be diving into
159looking at asbuilt drawings from a hundred years ago, looking at back at the pencil drawings on that stuff. We're going to go in, we're going to be popping ceilings. We're going to talk to you about cutting holes in some hard ceilings to take a look at some things. So, that's where that feasibility of additions and remodels. There's a lot of data we have to go collect, physically look at, pop our head above ceilings, take pictures. That's where >> that helps us price that stuff up. >> And you think you guys are going to be able to do a lot of that work prior to like some of the timelines that we saw Yes. >> get put up. So between now and middle of September. >> Okay. >> As Patrick said, we got a slew of
160people. >> We are ready. Yeah. We are ready to join the the team. The interior scans is another way that we use to help with the renovation work. Right. So again, we can do that. We can get these 3D point clouds and essentially help push those to Paragon Perkins of Well, they can drop those in their model. They have the existing conditions. That's not to say it'll cover all of what an unforeseen may be when you open up the walls and we uncover some of those. But again, we're doing the efforts on the front end to your point to help, you know, mitigate some of those risks. >> We'll be doing it this time of night, too. Okay, Leo. Number three. >> I'm actually gonna follow up a little bit too, and this is just
161partly my trying to wrap my head around and understand the construction manager at risk model. So, the big advantage of this for for our district is, you know, for any I guess is the kind of the certainty that it's not going to go above a certain price. So, is that Is that an unlimited risk that you guys are taking on? How does I mean, what's the what's the the scope of that? I mean, it could go Yeah, it's defined on those drawings and specs and that that's why you're hiring a CM is we're going to get on board now in the very early programming SDCD. We are helping evolve that design. So, we're going to flush out a lot of these issues on paper and that's really >> No, I understand that. >> But then
162the GMP will be based on that. set of documents and a lot of times we will you know bookend those with the phase one maybe is the high school I'm just throwing out ideas and the next piece maybe the elementary schools the next piece would be the athletics but they're based on those specific drawings and specs or guaranteed max those are presented to the board we go through to make sure you understand those exhibits >> Leo maybe to address your specific questions no it can't be an unlimited risk that we assume I there's a business assumption that we're all in here is that so Our job is really to look at the total risk, but then it's a discussion of allocation of where those risks are. So for the unforeseen underground conditions discussion, we're going
163to talk about what that risk may be and quantify that risk and identify it and include it with the budget discussion, but contractually. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, um, John, I may have a followup question for you. Anyway, what happens with cost savings if the project comes in under the guaranteed minimum price? That's a clause in the contract we're willing to negotiate. Obviously, there's different percentages on what, you know, shared savings could be. We have clients that do 7030, 8020. Again, the incentive there is for us as a CM to help save those dollars, right? we get a little, you know, whatever that percentage is of SMOS and savings, the rest of it comes back to the district. We also have other districts that want zero savings there and absolutely all the funding would then
164come back to Clayton. But again, just thinking about the mechanism there and what the incentive may be for your, you know, our firm essentially to help save every little dollar along the way. I mean, overall, we're going to be stewards of the district finances period, but Um how are change orders managed and priced under the GMP? >> Um yeah so change orders would be uh reviewed by myself. So we would submit that whatever the changes design change unforeseen would go out to the subcontractors. They would review it, send their pricing in to me. I would collect that, review it, make sure it is within price, materials, labor looks reasonable um and submit that to the architect team to review and then it would come to the owner to take a look at um discuss it
165at the board and decide if that's a change that you would like to proceed with or not. >> Followup question. So, are the change orders usually initiated by by let's say us or the school district or are there other things that factor into change orders and how they kind of come about? >> Majority of the change orders, I would say, is it's a design change. Maybe something that changes along the way, something you initially planned to do and didn't exactly turn out exactly how you were wanting it. So, you might want to make a design change along the way. Um, or we could say something like those unforeseen changes, which may be something we had an allowance uh in the budget for. We had an allowance for like we talked about the fuel tank. We
166said, "Hey, we knew that was there. We put x amount of dollars set aside for that. That could be an owner allowance." And once we find out what that specific value is, we would submit that towards that allowance and you say, "Yes, you can use x amount of dollars from that allowance to use towards that issue." >> Sorry, I have a followup specific to that. So, do you typically is it best practice that it's a is it a is it a dollar one change order request or is there a minimum dollar threshold? Where do you guys find that from a project management standpoint in order to not sacrifice speed for efficiency and everything else? Like I know it's size of the project and everything else, but is it zero dollar one under $5,000 under $500?
167At what point does that change order trigger the involvement of has to come to the board has to go to the next level committee you know in your process. >> Yeah. So explaining a zero dollar change to what Nicole's saying if there's a contingency allowance all agreed upon and the dollars are coming from there it's a zero dollar. We're just changing from one bucket to another right it's going from an allowance to the subcontractor. Everyone's agreeing upon that. So to answer your question we are not going to come in here with one two $50. No, these are substantial changes and we have to again prove entitlement if those are going above you know what I mean what's already the established budget on that line item. So smaller things SM Wilson again we take care of
168a lot of these items to your point schedule needs to happen milestones we need to hit you know we are going to absorb a lot of those costs and be able to move the project forward by the way in that construction contingency we're going to track those items so you can see essentially what those dollars amount might be but they They don't come they won't necessarily come as a change order to the board level if that makes sense. T >> typically we see most districts handling any of those types of things through John uh or the CFO in that role of that capacity that unless it's some major you know it's adding an addition 10,000 foot addition to you know a building that wasn't planned for because most of again our job is to plan
169for the program cost of that and manage that within within that. Typically, we don't see that coming. You know, a $2,000 change order coming out to board for approval. >> How do you recover and get back on schedule when construction has fallen behind schedule? >> I can speak to this, but look, we're always looking for efficiencies in the field. Phasing is a big part of that and overlapping trades and unlocking areas. We can a lot of efficiencies there. So we will build realistic schedules. We want to work to your end dates. Obviously school, you know, we want to turn over in June because we know August is the start of school. So we're going to build in that that time for owner move in getting you ready for that next year. But yeah, there's a
170lot of efficiencies. Mike Mike's done a lot, you know, throughout the years to get creative on that side of it. >> I've learned a lot of weekends, so that's one one way we do it. Um, you know, it uh the big thing is to manage it as we're going. Don't let it get behind. trying, you know, and especially as a cost-saving thing, we make sure that we're assessing it early. The reason is is because the later it gets, your skilled trades, they call themselves, but your mechanical guys, your electricians, those guys, those are a lot more expensive than the general trades that we typically have. So, you want to get >> Yeah. Yeah. Anything over, you know, an eight or nine hour day, they're they want more. So that's why we try to manage that
171up front and get that ahead of back on track. Um and you know we typically do a three-week schedule, sometimes four or five that we are doing in the field. It's more realistic. You guys will have access to that and see where we're at with stuff. But here again, you know, uh next Monday 18th, everybody's going back to school and we're we're ready for it. But like I said, I'm not going to lie to you. It's been a rough summer trying to get some of these things done and people uh you know trade force there's not a lot of people in the trades anymore so we don't have the workforce we used to be able to pull from. So that's why the u the weekends have become a necessity more or less this summer to
172get things done. We did make a significant technology investment uh two years ago in a in a program that is really has we've seen this challenge coming. We've seen the labor pool decreasing that, you know, working overtime, just getting more crew isn't the answer. It doesn't work anymore. So, we we invested in in a program called Smart PM that really analyzes at a very it's a it's basically a delay analysis, and it it looks at things right away, every month, and every time you update, every week, and says, "Here's where the problems are." And it's not just the critical path problems. It's it's all the the work that was supposed to start that didn't get to start. And Nicole uses that to really talk to and look at that stuff. And we've seen a lot
173of positive benefits from just our trade partners understanding the impacts they're having by they're supposed to be working here. It's not critical to Cath, but they don't go there and then, you know, a month later we're going, hey, you need 20 people here and well, I only plan on 10. Well, that's because you didn't start this stuff. So, those are the things that technology has helped us a lot with that. Uh because the old adage of working weekends or just getting more people hasn't been working the last five years. Thank you. Can you please give an example of a project that had a supply chain issue or a lead time issue and how were you able to overcome that while while m maintaining the schedule project schedule? >> I'll give you a real good example.
174Um we did a due project most recent one where u you know co was hitting things were shutting down no one knew what we were going to be able to buy. So what we did is a we actually went out and bought we had three schools going. We actually went ahead and got all the insulation and all the roofing materials for it because obviously you need a roof on the building in order to bleach your interior. So what we did in that instance I rented a warehouse and I got 52 truck loads, tractor trailer loads of material in that warehouse and we staged out of that warehouse. So the district had a committed cost already because they knew what that was going to be. We bought it, put it in there, and for the next
175two years, we took it out of that warehouse, and at the end of it, I turned the warehouse back over. So, it worked out really well. But that's that's a way of us controlling costs and also knowing that, you know, what what's ahead of us? That's what we did. >> Thank you. And I guess a followup would just be not just supply chain um issues or lead time issues, but there have there been any projects that you've worked on where there were like any major issues that you look back on now saying, I wish we had done something differently. >> We've got >> or could have handled something better. >> Yeah, we've got our finger on the pulse in terms of the market. So I guess to answer your question, electrical equipment and gear and
176all. So we've had that learning curve, but look, we're up to speed with that now. And so to your point, we're going to work with Paragon, Perkins, and Will to get those early packages out first thing to get the clock started on that material procurement by the time we, you know, shovels hit the ground. >> So there's a lot of those instances that we work through with the team to make sure those early packages. >> Every job has lessons learned and the team at the end of the day goes through every job. To say all of our stuff is still learned perfectly every time. But but because we're a K through 12 builder, we have Patrick alluded to all these people back in the office. They are watching that pricing. They know what's going on
177in the market. And every time we build a project, we create those systems and those processes to make it more efficient and more effective for the next time. And I mean these team members in here to you today have built so much and they sometimes lose track of the fact that look at all this collaborative together, but you don't you don't have that where you know that understanding that deep bench that's we do. So, it's really about looking back and saying, how can we make this project even more efficient than the last? >> Thanks. >> Um, are you seeing tariffs affect construction costs and if so, how? Why is that funny? >> We have bets on this question. What was the bet and who won? That's my followup question. >> So Mike gets to >>
178So you won. >> I I think at the end of the day, we we have not seen a significant impact today from there was a lot of discussions about it. Um but it it's something we evaluate and you know one of the the the challenges when you have this discussion now is that's going to be in seven or eight months when we're procuring this project at the end day. We've had discussions in the past where we proactively think about it to the point when we buy stuff early when we know we can. We also have a discussion about what does that pricing risk look like? We've arranged for contract arrangements and subcontractors where it's a shared risk where a material price according to indexes. So, you know, that's one thing we use a lot is
179the indexes. So, there are tons of indexes out there that'll tell you what the actual price was. You'll hear a million people tell you that it went up 20% every month for steel pipe for fire sprinkler, but when you actually look at the index or the asphalt index for mode, >> the reality is something different. I think that's the one thing we really dig into deeply and look at that. I >> I think I mean to your point is right. I think a lot and across industries, a lot of these prices haven't really been baked into end user costs or end user prices yet. But I guess maybe a a more um onpoint question for the timing of our project would be do you know that your projects have sourced a lot of raw materials
180from countries that might be at risk for higher tariffs? Like are you like oh this country you know we get a lot from I mean just China right we get a lot from China and so therefore this two years from now might be an issue right do you know of anything like that where you get your raw materials from? No, I I I'll say that I it's probably I see elevator contractors trying to be the most advantageous of the discussion and just throwing out, you know, I was just talking to one of our team members yesterday that said they got a $40,000 increase on an elevator that's been ordered for a year and a half and frankly was in a warehouse somewhere in uh the states. Uh but again, our job is to really push
181back frank on that, really dig into the details to understand that. We ran into that issue with switch gear a lot three or four years ago one on the delivery but also the pricing side of life and you know at the end of the day you found out that hey it was just this breaker that was coming from overseas the cabinet was built here all these other components. So that's our job is to really dig into that. We don't just take a blind hey here's my 20% price increase give me a change order. Our job is to really delve into that. But your point there's all the components of these products. It's really hard to know exactly where some of those things are coming from. >> Some of the checks and balances that we do
182too is the design team may have specified a specific one, but when you check the lead time on it, it's two years out. And we'll suggest to them that, hey, we can get square D over here and it's comparable. It's, you know, totally equal to it and we can get it in less time. So, um, that's one of the jobs that we try to make sure price. >> So, were you hedging your your But you know what you're buying it for the marketers >> have taken a position and you're okay >> a lot today inflation. >> Yeah. So you find somebody who's taken a long position or you guys know somebody who's taken a long position on steel. >> We see that happen a lot with lumber and steel. The one that that an index
183plays a lot more a lot of times is because typically when you think about a project is we're going to go bid a project out and you may not put that down for two years. There's a risk there that has to be addressed because what we don't want is we don't want an ultrainflated number on bid day and then you know those material price increases they thought were going to happen don't happen and we collectively also paid a lot more for that product at the end of day. That's those are the type of ones that are so far out that it's not they can't take a long position on it. >> We use those indexes sometimes on on that specifically asphalt's a good example of that. >> Okay, I got the next question. Um what's
184your typical process when a project estimate is over budget during budget during the pre-construction phase? I think we've already kind of covered this but >> we'll come up with a lot of options. Yeah. >> And again that that just continues as an iterative, you know, kind of more collaborative process. That's the C partnering with your design firms. >> I think one thing to think Patrick mentioned target value delivery and really our intent here is to continue building momentum. Anytime something comes in over budget, we're taking two steps back. So our job is to really outline expectations with Paragon, Perkins Well, and BLDD and show them what our estimate is based on at a granular level. So we we make assumption that we've got 500 cubic yards of concrete in this footing and foundation package. That's
185our expectation from them on design and it's coming from years of experience to know hey we've built tons of these schools we know that this is a typical column foundation pad when you when you effectively aim small then you miss small at the end of the day we're really looking at that going hey we can have a discuss but we're not going to have a discussion about you have a thousand yards of concrete if they come back with a design has a thousand yards of concrete we're going to start talking about that but we're going to outline that expectation we're expecting a 6x6 column footing on the inside that's two foot thick We want to get a design around that. So that's really what we're trying to do is keep building momentum and we talked
186about the short duration here is we can't afford to take a step back. So that's our job is to really guide that program for the design to equal this budget. >> How do you ensure your construction bidding process complies with state statutes for public bidding? So we have spec link is the software that builds full custom frontends for K through2 public projects. We've done you know hundreds of these. So we absolutely understand the statute requirements you know the drug testing the background checks the everify the OSHA requirements all that it's all in package. So we're ready to go again working with your designers really to get the budget and scope alignment getting those drawings ready and then we're really soliciting those biders and helping to get maximum bids per claim is is the most important
187as well. >> And then public bid openings with you present. That's what we do on all our projects is is we have those public bid openings with with you with representatives from the school to make sure we're complying. >> Do you intend to self-perform any work? >> We do a lot of the uh temporary partitions that makes it as far as you know if we're going to isolate an area where we're going to be working at a lot of times we we'll build those things far as like installing case work and cabinets we we're capable of doing that we just look at it what's going to get you the best value for your money >> I think we've really stepped back and think about you know these are intense projects on occupied campuses potentially we
188want Mike and his team of superintendent to really focus on the construction and not worrying about calling for concrete or making sure he's meeting production on that. The other thing we see typically is when you, you know, to the public bidding discussion, when you're indicating you're bidding this work, you tend to see less bidder response, uh, because people think you have an unfair advantage because you're, you're working on the project. Um, it is very critical for us to get three plus biders on every bid package we put out. From our perspective, we see a very large variance between a number one and number two. if we only have two biders. When we get to three biders, that variance gets down to five, six% at most. So, that's what we're focused on. We're not focused on
189trying to, you know, some perform and and make more money doing that. Uh, our focus is really on your project overall at the end of the day. >> So, if you were to do some self-performing work, what would be the benefit to school district? >> Some of the examples when and Mike brought up temporary uh discussions. So, if we had a temporary guardrail that had to be put up uh to protect students for safety wise and it's an hour worth of work, um if we put that in a bid package with an undefined quantity of discussions versus us just calling it and saying they might call the office and get a carpenter come over for an hour, you'd only pay for an hour versus more than likely you're going to pay for four or eight
190hours for someone to come and do that through the subcontractors. >> That's fair. So, typically it's going to be fairly small. Okay, >> I think that's I think it's covered it. >> Yeah. >> In the construction manager at risk process, what financial risks are retained by the owner? >> Typically design side, geotechnical testing, special testing, inspections, those things are kind of outside the GMP and we'll make sure you understand that because we have kind of a total budget scorecard we call it and those will be down kind of in owner section. So we'll make sure we talk through those and those are items again that are directly through the district. We can help obviously, you know, make sure you're on on time with those and we're getting those uh activities on board when we need
191them for the schedule, but those would be directly contracted through through PL. Typically, the speestus removal is also covered by the district and we've run into that especially on older buildings. Uh you know, and a lot of times they'll uh we'll go in and maybe they took it all up except for maybe underneath something that they didn't want to move or whatever. So, then we have to deal with that. So that would be something that the district would be we to call call you guys because you have to have the chain of command on custody on that. So that's why that's done that way. >> Okay. Big one. Why should the school district of Clayton select SM Wilson? >> I think the biggest biggest reason is our experience. The sheer wealth of knowledge here with
192pre-bond planning. We are ready to go. We're ready to help jump on board with your design firm and your community and really get these projects moving forward on the right foot. We understand these deadlines. We understand we can't keep going back, you know, to reinvent something or go backwards in design. So, that's really what this team brings. And again, just the leadership of Nicole and Mike and kind of what they will lead in terms of these specific project teams, you know, and that's that's essentially what we were bringing in the reason why the district should look for us. >> Kind of a selfish thing for me, but um I've worked in a lot of districts and I'd love to work at Clayton. So, I mean, it would kind of round out my portfolio, I guess,
193would be the best way to put it. I was thinking the other day how many diff different districts I've worked in and uh I've hit almost all the major ones in St. Louis so it would be nice to finish it out with Clayton and have a nice thing to look at. I'm very proud of what I do. I mean it's it's a good feeling and you talked about your students earlier. Um it's really nice and it's a great feeling to go into a school where and we get our kids involved in it. They you know they get to see how we're building things and uh um some of the schools nowadays you know I'm a product of Parkway, but I mean when uh some of the schools that I've worked in recently, um it's they're
194almost like college campuses. It's just it's incredible how how some of the upgrades and things are doing, but I think the kids seem to be happier in a in a in a new environment. It seems that way anyway, but I'd love to be able to do it. >> Thank you. I'm curious if um Nina has any questions for them about what they do. >> No pressure, but I do have one. >> You talked about um kind of how you like to get students like involved in the process, which I definitely agree with. Is there like um a specific plan you like implement at every project you do or does it kind of like depend on like like the extent to what you're like the extent of how you're doing things and like you know what
195kind of district you're working in? >> Good question. So, every district we work in, we do create a custom skilled plan because depending on what we're building, we just a new early childhood center in Jefferson City. And so with those kids, right, old preschool kids, we went in and we write instruction stories to them and we engage, we had them draw, we had them do different opportunities. But here when we would get to work with high school kids, we actually integrate with like your geometry and construction classes and we try to help put that into the actual curriculum and we say these are all the careers and things that you can do and here's a real life project right outside your door and let's see how what you've learned in the classroom relates to what's
196going on outside your classroom. So it's a great question and we really like to get the administration and the students involved. I've spoken with Catalyst before great organization to get involved there as well and skilled is something that's near and dear to our heart because we built so many schools and we really really want more people to enter our industry. >> Any further questions from the board for me? >> Okay, thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Appreciate you being here. Thank you. We're going to take a little break. Wow. >> I live over in Alexander. So, um I have an interest in this. I'm here with Steve Shraggy and they'll he'll talk more about himself a little bit, but um Steve has been with us 26 years. 26 years. He will be our
197project director and would be involved all the way through. Paul Shimmero here on my right uh has been with us only 25 years and he would be leading our pre-construction. He's our director. He'd be leading that. Um both these guys are super smart professional engineers. Steve's got his masters in structures. Paul graduated from Washington University. Um Paul started with us as an intern and Steve started with us right out of school. So, um, we'll talk a little bit more about why, uh, continuity and low turnover is good for the client, and I really believe it makes a big difference. Um, so a little overview on our company. Uh, we are family and employeeowned. Uh, so I'm a family member. I'm second generation. We have three generations at our company. Uh, Paul and Steve are both
198significant owners. Also, uh, my Clayton connection, I've lived here for a long time. Um, we have a very local focus. So, when you talk about where do we focus our efforts, uh, we're not like eastern Missouri, Southern Illinois. We are St. Louis, St. Louis metro area, particularly central core. Um, it it fits with the way we think of our business. The fact that we believe that uh, active senior management walking the job site on a regular basis makes a world of difference. So, this is what fits in our business. That's why we like to stay close to home. 90% of our projects are CM at risk, which is the model that you you have all selected. We think it's a great pick. Uh it's mostly what we do now. Uh I talked about extremely low
199turnover, has some of the lowest turnover in the industry. Uh these are not the only 25 year plus people at our company. We got a lot of that. U we've had uh we started a policy um about gosh, was it 20 years ago? Maybe 25 years ago. We had our first person at 30 years with our company. Thought I'd do something special. So we we we gave him a $10,000 trip. We thought that was pretty cool. Had we known we'd have 19 people had 30 years, we might have thought again. But anyway, we're happy to do that. We've even had to raise it with inflation now. So, uh, nonigious. So, we're in a very, uh, tough industry. Uh, that is a lot of legal work happens. Uh, we've never been in a lawsuit in 53
200years with a client or architect. We have no legal budget. Um, we just try to do what we say, stand behind our work and, uh, things tend to work out that way. And we'll talk more about this. We have an an unusually good history of controlling costs and beating budgets. Um, I'll, you know, we'll talk more about what we mean by that, a little bit about our experience. Um, so again, mostly CM at risk work. You know, we know I mean obviously Clayton is an elite school district, one of the best certainly in our area of the country. Um we know that you uh turn out some of the top students and they go to the best schools and all that and so we know it's a top school. Um we work for a lot
201of elite organizations who can pick whoever they want to work for them. Uh Forest Park Forever um we've done many projects there. We're working on the Steinberg right now, the big 6500 Steinberg. Uh St. Standless Symphony Orchestra. Uh big project wrapping up. It'll open. Grand opening is the 20th, September 20th. Um $150 million project. Uh they could pick anybody they wanted. They picked us. St. Louis Public Libraries including we've done several of those including the St. Louis Central Library, Soldiers Memorial Military Museum, the City Garden, Gateway Foundation, History Museum, M Historical. We've done seven projects for them over the years. Pulitzer Foundation, Missouri Botanical Garden, done about 35 projects there over the years. So, we get to work for a lot of top institutions in St. Louis. We work a lot in Clayton. Um, a
202really first, well, not our first experience, but a couple things that we did in Clayton back when we were doing more hard bid work, which we don't really do anymore very much. Shaw Park Pool, we did the we redid Shaw Park Pool and got it done through a horrible winter. Opened it in time for Memorial Day. The Clayton Firehouse Station. Uh, more recently, Emerson's headquarters. Uh, Energizer's headquarters. We're doing the condominium building. It's probably driving you crazy with the lane we're taking over by Stros. We're sorry for that. Um, Commerce Bank, uh, we did their headquarters. We're working on a ninth project over there in their tower. Uh, Cole Rena, an early childhood center for them. We, it's our third project for them. And then the Ritz Carlton, the Don Alonso, the atrium, the cigar
203club, the lobby. We're doing the ballroom right now. So, we like Clayton. Love working close to home. We know the building department really well. Great relations with all the people over there. And we do a lot of K12 work too. Um things I've kind of focused on things that are kind of close to here. Now, most of our work historically has been private school. And why is that? Because for many years, uh public schools couldn't do CM at risk. So uh since CMR CMR risk is our model uh we end up doing most of our work with private schools like community school recently did a job there St. Louis uh High done nine projects consecutively for them we see hopefully get a theme a lot of repeat business it's kind of our thing um St.
204Academy, six projects, MICDS, um STEM building, uh just did their tennis center, baseball field, doing the um what was the other field we're doing? Field hockey, field hockey in the lower school. We're working on lower school right now. Um so again, the theme a lot of repeat business working in the central corridor. And then Lindberg schools is we think a very important example. Um we we don't normally bid work as I said but we did bid the Lindberg High School. It was during COVID and we had had about a third of our work canceled in about three days and then there was this bid opportunity. So we uh put together a bid and we're the successful bidder on the 85 high school. Um which was interesting because we don't normally do that but it showed
205that we were able to get competitive and get the best bids to be able to get low on a job like that. uh from that um it was a very good experience. Uh Lindberg uh I don't know did we help persuade encourage them to try seem at risk. Steve >> they were intrigued by it especially after learning about us and knowing that we do most of our work as CM at risk and so they kind of dipped their toe in the water on the idea center which is our gifted center and it was about a five and a half million dollar job so they just wanted to try something small and see how it went. It was a big success. So then their current bond issue that we're working for now is a CM at
206risk model, >> right? Which will mostly pre-will be done in the field before we would start on anything here. So um the the team that you saw in our proposal, if you saw our proposal, is populated primarily with Lindberg people coming right off that job. So you you you have a good way to know, gee, how how are these people? Um and because these are the same people who be coming over and you can see how how they do, you know. So, um, and I noticed things didn't line up very well. >> Okay, it converted to different fonts. So, anyway, there's Steve and Paul. Okay, the top row is the operations. The bottom row is the pre-construction. So, anyway, those are some of the people that you'd be seeing here. Um, so we did want
207to talk just a little bit about so you got to make a decision and you got, you know, couple couple good options. Um, but we want to talk about what we think matters when you make this decision. Uh there's a few things. Number one, where the real money is. We know, you know, this is a professional services selection. Um and we know the fees are involved. Kind of like with architecture and other things, you know, the lowest fee does not always mean the best overall cost or outcome. Uh it is rare that we are the low fee. Um even though we continually get picked for some of the best CM opportunities in St. Louis. Um, and if you think, you know, working for people like Emerson, um, Energizer, these types of companies, if you think
208that they pick us because they want to pay more, that's not the case. Um, they pick us because they think we can deliver the best value. And, um, I'll talk a little bit about that. Um, so the real money is in the cost of construction of course you know so if the fees are different by you whatever half a percent of your program the big difference is who's going to buy that whatever it is 77 $80 million worth of construction the best who's going to have the precon process that's going to facilitate to make sure we get the right design that we're buying the right thing um and then ultimately who will deliver the best uh bids. So, um that photo there at the right is uh our awards for the um American Subcontractors Association
209St. Louis picks the the best general contractor in the region annually. Uh for we're in the large category. Um and this is one award you can't nominate yourself for. Um it is done by secret ballot and secret nomination and the uh subcontractors pick uh who they think is the best contractor to work for based on uh efficient job sites, prompt pay, fair contracts, safety. Am I missing anything, Paul? Those are the main things. Um so we were uh selected for that. were pleasantly, you know, surprised to be awarded in 2025 and we've been awarded that five of the last nine years. So, what does that mean? Um, ultimately how much you pay for your building is going to be ultimately dependent the other day, how aggressively subsided and who bids it. So, uh, a great
210example, and this kind of proves the point. We brought this up when we were interviewing for Energizer, so we weren't the lowest fee, but but we said, but you know, you really got to look at where the money is, and it's in the subs. Um, and so without our knowledge, we didn't know this, that the owner rep after uh the interview, they said, "Well, let's okay, that's what they said. Let's see about this." They randomly called 10 subcontractors in St. Lewis, pretty well-known contractor, and said confidentially, who of these two firms would you prefer to work for, and who would you be likely to give a good bid to? And and all 10 of them picked us, and three of them said they wouldn't even provide a bid to the other contractor. So, uh, and
211Paul will talk about this later probably, but, um, the the swings that we see in the market today are pretty dramatic. And you'll see between low bid and second bid, you can see swings of six, seven, eight, even 10% or more. If you miss one or two low bids, you're going to cost yourself a lot of value for, you know, for what you're spending. Um, what matters also, okay, so no surprises. one of your your your biggest risk as a board and I guess as a school district is that there would be a big surprise when the bids come in. You know, you work together, you you architect does the drawings, we do some estimates, and then we go out to market and oh my gosh, we're way over. Um and sad to say that
212happens. Um it's happened a lot lately. Um what does that mean for this the district, the board, the team? Well, it's embarrassing. you know, as a group, we have a loss of credibility. It can cause delays to your your programs like, "Oh my gosh, we can't we don't have enough money to to start these projects. Uh it can lead to costly redesign, costly in terms of time and money. Uh and then the the the worst thing, post-design scope cutting, where you just start trying to pull stuff out after the drawings are done, you get pennies on the dollar back. You don't want to be there." Um, our record on the big surprise is unblenmished, including in the last five years of pandemic era construction. Um, we have had no big blowouts, no big surprises. Meanwhile,
213we've seen, you've probably seen the newspaper articles, oh my gosh, the school district was 20% over their budget, 30% over, things like that. We haven't had that. uh we've been able to hold our budgets, bring our numbers in and we think that that's a great benefit to our clients, gives them a lot of confidence. Um, another thing people don't talk about enough, what really matters in the long run is quality. Uh, ultimately our product is the building that we leave you with. um and how that holds up over time, how that the quality that's built with is going to have a big impact on your long-term maintenance and just your long-term the character of your of your institution. Uh we have continually been told by clients that have worked with other contractors that our buildings
214seem to be built better. They have less problems with them, less maintenance. This is we hear this from our clients. Paul's had many conversations with her clients on this. Um, and why is that? Well, we we focus on that a lot. Um, we make a really big deal about the quality of the construction that we put in place. We just for reference, we spend virtually no funds on business development and marketing. We have no marketing department. We have one guy who does about half-time business development. Almost all of our work comes word of mouth and repeat business. Um, we put all of our efforts into our product, which is the building that we build. We both live and work in this community. So, um, all of us, me included, we see people we build for
215every day. I mean, I live in Clayton. We work a lot in Clayton. You see these people. I never want to have to look somebody run into somebody that I'm embarrassed about something I did for them. If we did something wrong, we're going to make it right. um we value our reputation um more than our profits. Uh so um we just take a lot of pride in the product and uh you know we we think people should focus more on that. Frankly, we believe in customers for life. Um one of the benefits of continuity and low turnover is we're going to be here a long time. These guy Steve's already promised me that he's going to be at least 15 more years. >> Oh yeah. >> Okay. Probably 30. >> Probably 30. Yeah. Um, so
216I've been here 36 years. Uh, last week we got a call from a a client on a building that we had built 19 years ago with a problem they were having. We were down there the next morning. You know, I I swear I'm sure 90% of the contractors in town would have said, "Well, it's way out of warranty or we don't have anybody in the company even knows anything about that." But at BSI with the the the continuity of this company and the care for the work that we do again, we're there the next day to help them figure out the problem and take care of it. Um that's just the way we roll. So what's the conclusion? I mean, you got a lot of things to think about. I just say the things that
217matter. We think that BSI would be a very safe choice for Clayton and you can't go wrong and we'll keep you out of trouble. So that's all I got. Questions? Thank you so much. Appreciate that presentation. Um there are six of us board members here tonight. We have prepared 12 questions. So we're going to go around. Each of us will ask a couple, >> but I'll remind everyone um please ask any clarifying followup or additional questions as they come to you. >> And we'll just go in the same order. I'll start >> with Jason. Question number one. >> Great. Thanks for the presentation. Uh it was I enjoy learning more about your firm. Uh question number one, what costs are included in the guaranteed maximum price and what costs are explicitly excluded? >> I'll I'll
218start with that one. Typically, you know, the GMP from that you get from BSI is going to include all of the costs for that are considered the hard construction costs. So that includes all of the trade contractor work that would be bid out multiple bids per category. Uh and then all the BSI costs to run and supervise the jobs. Our project management, our superintendent, we typically have a full-time superintendent on site all the time. Uh and then uh the associated fees and things which were in the proposal, fees and insurance costs, things that would not be included within the costes, anything that doesn't show up on the documents. you know the documents that are developed by the design team that define those are contract documents that defines a contract between the CM and the owner
219and so the things that are not part of the hard construction cost would not be part of the GMP. Uh there would be a separate budget a program budget which would track those items as a separate separate line item and that's work that would not typically be performed by the CM that might be furniture uh equipment etc that that the school district would procure separately. What happens if the project costs exceed the GMP due to unforeseen circumstances? I mean, I know that probably never happens, right? >> If it exceeds the GMP or exceeds it when you when you when we take the bids, it comes back and it's more than what the budget was. >> I think that's >> Yeah. Okay. >> Uh that that does happen a lot as Paul mentioned. It does not
220happen a lot with BSI. In the past five years, I have not had that experience with anything that we put out to bid where we were the CM and developed the budgets along the way. So when we went out to bid and took bids, we delivered the project at or below the owner's expected budget. >> What happens with cost savings if the project comes in under the guaranteed maximum price? Yeah, >> there's >> you you want to take that one? >> I just say um so it's a guaranteed maximum price and and so there's savings which typically there would be some savings. Uh that would be very normal. Uh and sometimes there's a shared savings provision. Um we don't really uh we don't require that. Um, we will work hard for savings all the way
221through. Either way, some of our clients uh feel from like a fiduciary standpoint that they feel more comfortable knowing that we have also a financial incentive. So, there might be they might suggest a shared savings provision. Um, I think like a 3070 would be a typical one that we would see, but we really leave that up to the client. And uh so if if it's full savings of the client, all goes back to you. If there's a shared savings, then we get we get a piece of it. >> So if n I think 90% of the work you guys do now is really CM. What percentage of that work do you have those type of shared savings provisions? >> Half less than half. >> I'd say half >> I'd say slight I mean on the
222projects I'm currently involved in maybe a little less than half. >> A little bit less than half. >> And And those percentages might be a little bit different, but you it's always a majority to the to the owner. >> Okay. >> How are change orders managed and priced under the GMP? >> We do our We do our jobs well during pre-construction. You shouldn't have much in the way of change orders. Steve, on the Lindberg School District, you got a couple examples of >> Yeah, I mean, there's there's obviously changes from uh subcontractors that we evaluate. So, we ev evaluate uh the cost the legitimacy of the of the change order. Subs ask for changes that they don't deserve and we we never put forward anything. Uh, I mean you you won't see anything from us
223even if we're just tracking it, not even necessarily submitting it as a change, but you know, it's all open book and so we're working with whatever staff members or team that is uh that we're working with on the budget and um so there will be there may be changes in scope or enhancements that you want to make during the project and we will share those costs with you because you need to know what they're costing you. But we frequently uh are able to absorb those changes within the GMP. >> Just a follow-up question. So you mentioned sometimes subcontractors uh request I guess additional funds for what they're being asked to do. Is that because they look at the let's say final drawings or something and they said this was different from what we did or
224I guess how does that how does that come about? >> Yes. Or they may just flat out say well I didn't know it was going to be like that. You know, I mean, that sounds ridiculous, but that that happens more frequently than not. And if and if someone is um kind of going through the motions and pushing, oh, I have a change order from a sub. I need to mark it up and send it into the owner and they need to approve it without doing a proper evaluation of whether they're even, you know, the merits even warrant bringing it to you. I mean, that that needs to stop with us. And then we man I mean, that's the whole point. you're hiring us to manage 40 45 subcontractors and all the everyone's out for their
225own self-interests and when that all works well that's great but we're there as a protection against that you shouldn't just be getting stuff that's you know stamped by us and sent off to you to to deal with >> that that said what we're looking for is a fair implementation of the contract documents between the client and the subcontractors you know if it's if it's shown on the documents then the subcontractors owe it to us to do that work. If it's not shown on the documents, then the owner is not entitled to receive something that they didn't pay for already through the original bid process. >> So, we're trying to do a fair analysis. Uh so, the first thing you got to do is establish entitlement. Are they entitled to a change because it's a change
226condition or do the contract documents define it they're not entitled to a change? >> That's a that's like a general to the subcontractor. So, in a dispute situation like that, um, so if it was it was deemed, I guess I don't know how it would be deemed, but if it was deemed, um, that they had a legitimate claim to to additional funds, would would that fall in your responsibility as Seymar? Let's say if you didn't establish in the bid documentation that this condition needs to be built, would that be the would they have a claim? >> Can I can I give you a real world world example? Okay. >> I I don't think they they'd mind knowing about this. At Lindberg High School, they have which Perkins and Will designed, by the way. Um they
227have several classrooms that have garage doors, right, where you can flex the space, right, between you can open it up and have a double a double classroom, for lack of a better term. And on the drawings, you know, and this was just a a mistake on the drawings, and it didn't really cost the district any more money, but the electrical drawings didn't show power being routed to all the motors that have to run the doors, right? So, we put it out to bid. We have a supplier furnishing the doors. We have an electrician supplying the power. He brings up the point that, well, the drawings don't show any power to these doors. They could have been manual doors. I don't know that. >> Yeah. >> Turns out they're motorized. We validate that. It's a it's
228a legitimate gap in the drawings. These are what contingencies have have to deal with. The drawings aren't going to be perfect. And Lindberg had never paid for that work because it wasn't in his bid because it wasn't on his drawings. And so we evaluated the merit. Right. And so he and then we also evaluate I mean it's also not an opportunity for him to take advantage of the situation either. >> Right. So now we're evaluating the legitimacy of the cost and is it reasonable and uh and ultim you know and we're doing all that in collaboration with the client. >> That's great. That's a great explanation. Thank you. >> Yeah, that's really good. So and just for like just to pull in that thread a little more. So that comes then out of the contingency
229budget and as part of a change order request all at the same time. >> And I would I would clarify this there are two different types of change orders. There's a change order from the general contractor C Seamar to the subcontractor. Y >> and then there's a change order from the Seymar contract to the owner contract. >> Yep. >> And so what we're saying is something like that we can absorb that within our contingency and we have a change order to the subcontractor. They are due the money. >> Okay. >> But the owner doesn't see a change order from us to say this was not. >> So what's an example where we might see a change order then as the owner? Um >> if you decided that you wanted to add a >> another 10,000
230square feet on something, >> right? That might be >> another another story on top of the building. >> Yeah. >> If you >> a dome on top of the football field. >> We had a we had a closeout meeting today on a project. The the project was delayed by a year. So there were escalation costs because they delayed it by a year. So there was an owner change order. >> Got it. >> Yeah. I mean technically speaking, the example I gave you would go to the owner. Okay. >> I mean, because that's not necessarily automatically covered in our GMP, but historically what we're trying to describe to you is a situation where we typically return savings on on the job and the job savings b that's already being realized as the project goes on can
231often fund those sorts of smaller changes that we know are going to occur. >> But even that example, Steve, on the that that was actually the hard bid job, >> right? That was on the high >> that was the competitive big job where we were just given a set of drawings and just bid what's on the drawings. So we still really represented everybody fairly, >> right? >> If we had been seem at risk, which is one of the reasons I think Lindberg likes CM risk is the odds of that kind of thing ever getting that far would have been a lot less. >> That's right. We were not involved in any. weren't involved in the original design, you know, and so that and sometimes it'll be a case where >> there will be a gap
232and we will say, well, yeah, he didn't have it and he didn't have it, but there was enough information that we should have had it, so we're not going to ask you for a change order even though we got to pay somebody downstream. So, that that can certainly happen within the CMR process. It's a high bar for us as CMR, much more than a competitive bid when they just say bid what's on the drawings. you you know you should expect more out of us to help debug these things. >> The gifted center, how many changes do we have? I did I I worked on the pre-construction on that. >> Yeah. >> And we finished the job. Do we have >> Yeah, the gifted center we had one change order to the owner and that was
233largely for enhanced scope kind of like what we described. They they they wanted to do more. Um and then we just finished Crestwood. In fact, we're getting occupancy on Thursday and uh we had not only do we have no change orders on that job to the owner, but we're returning savings, substantial savings back to the owner. And that's important to them because that's part of a that's the first project out of the gate on this multi-RO bond issue. And they have a list of other things that didn't make it into that bond issue that now they're able to start to look at and start to add other thing other projects on other campuses. >> And Crestwood's an elementary school. Yeah, I'm sorry. Right. Yes. Crosswood is one of their six elementary schools. We're also >>
234doing two others currently right now >> and those don't have any changes on them yet either. >> How do you recover and get back on schedule when construction has fallen behind schedule? >> Uh well, it starts in precon um with with a uh a good understanding of what the subcontractors are capable of doing. um that and laying out the expectations and and working with a schedule that is collaborative with them but not just whatever they want either. I mean we have to lead the effort in terms of um what the project demands are. Uh I I was relaying how many schools I currently am director over right now. I think it's about seven and uh several of them need to be open and schools present a unique challenge in that if you don't make a
235date. You know, it's one thing maybe open a hotel a month later or something, no one likes it, but you can, you know, okay, you just don't get rent for, you know, sell those rooms for a little while. You can't you got to open those on time. Um, so it's important that you know that you're tracking the schedule, both the short-term duration and long term, and that you address that at the very earliest possibility when you start to see things go off track. I mean, but the tools uh dlink activities, you know, make more things work in parallel. >> Um, it might be over time. I mean, typically if you're working through a school summer, there's a pretty good chance you're working some overtime cover. >> You know, manpower is harder to get now. You
236know, five, 10 years ago, you just say, "Give me 10 more electricians." You can't just do that anymore. They just don't exist. So, >> you really got to plan ahead. >> Really get ahead of it. >> It's become it's become a much bigger issue in pre-construction dealing with the schedule ahead of time, the long lead times. You know, the pandemic market conditions really changed the the way the business is done. And so things that we never used to have to worry about long lead time items are things that we have to address in pre-construction. So that's why Steve made a comment. This this really starts in pre-construction. Our schedule templates, we identify long lead time items so we can come up with strategies. There was one school project that we had about eight months of
237construction, but one of the pieces of equipment, the rooftop equipment for the heating and cooling system was going to take 12 months to get. I can't fit 12 months on an eightmon schedule. So, we work with the client to authorize and release that early so that it would be able to arrive in time. And then >> that same example about what, six weeks before it was supposed to be delivered. >> Yeah. So, those those HBAC units were supposed to arrive in June. We were told by the manufacturer due to supply chain issues that they wouldn't show up till September. And we were told that the day they were supposed to ship. Um and so we worked with the we put a lot of pressure on them, but we worked with the um sub HVAC subcontractor
238who has a relationship with that supplier and uh imparted on them the the need for them to come up with a good plan B, which they did. Fortunately, in that case, there were existing units that had no refrigerant in them. So at their at their expense, which is substantial, these were large units, they charged those units, replace some fan belts and motors and got those working in time for school to start and then we made a swap over a over a weekend when the when the the permanent units came in. >> So, you were able to maintain the project schedule. >> Oh, yes. >> Even though you had been given that. >> Yes. >> You had to deal with that. >> Yes. >> You never know what curveball is going to come, but we got
239to come up with a creative solution for every curveball that they throw at us. >> An added benefit, coincidentally, was this school is now doing expansion. So, two years later, we're back there again. It's a repeat client. >> And uh because those units were char we actually kept those units, took two older ones off and put the units that had been charged >> in their place to run the areas now that we're renovating now. >> Um and that's obviously the benefit of us being involved from it. It was almost as if >> two separate projects. Yeah. >> Two separate projects. It was almost as one continuous long project. Um because we went right into precon, early precon after the completion of the first phase. >> Well, you all pretty much just answered my question actually,
240which was give an example of a project that had a supply chain or lead time issue. How did you overcome that to keep it on schedule? You just answered that. So, >> you're welcome to ask another one. >> We can go on. Yeah. Go >> ahead. >> All right. Um are you seeing tariffs affect construction costs yet? And if so, how? >> I would say minimally. For all of the hype that you hear in the news about tariffs, uh we have not seen too many direct impacts on the projects, uh the subcontractors recognize that they are always taking pricing risks on projects. The tariffs in many cases are impacting commodity type things. And so some of those subcontractors strategically play the markets and they will try to pre- purchase, you know, they'll try to time
241it pre- purchase and they will maintain some inventories. Others will just say we're not we're not in that game. We will just get a quote from the supplier at the time that the project bids and we will include that supplier's price at that time. So it really varies by subcontractor. I can tell you that on certain projects where we thought that there was risk associated with that within the GMP. we identified or established like a tariff or market condition allowance uh to because basically when you when you take the bid a lot of the bids uh the the bidder might try to qualify the bid say my pricing is good for seven or 14 or 21 days. Well depending on what the timing looks like from the time we get the bid to the time
242that the board approves a project and we sign up contracts there may be longer than that time has passed and so we will identify market conditions allowance within the GMP such that if a a bidder can come back and I had this bid from my supplier on this bid date and here was the price and since then they have had a price increase and it is up by $5,000 and they can substantiate that then we would allocate dollars from that allowance to cover that. Uh that's a strategy we've used with multiple clients. We think that that allows it's it's really about risk management. And if you just tell the biders like we're not going to allow that, just put the money in your bid. The bids are going to come back higher. If they can
243bid more confidently saying I'm not taking the risk, yes, I will carry an allowance and if something comes up, they know that they can get coverage. They can give you a more aggressive bid. So, we will advise most of our clients that overall you wind up with a lower cost if you do it that way as opposed to just pushing all the risk downstream to the subs. And that's that's a common theme that we will use on different contracting things. And we don't have time here to get into all of those strategies, but we love to to talk with you about them if >> not not at 9:30 tonight. >> I have a follow-up question on that real quick. So is it does it happen that you do like a cost plus kind of thing
244where you basically is like open you mentioned open book as part of it. So is that is that a strategy as well or is that kind of what you were saying or >> uh cost plus >> cost plus meaning like um my cost is this and we already establish what my markup will be on the product. Is that >> you with a subcontractor for instance >> contractor >> there there are certainly circumstances where we subcontract work on a cost plus basis where it makes sense for the client. Uh whether whether that would come into play for these projects or not, we'd have to evaluate that. But yes, there are times where we have we have done I mean certainly on private private projects we will bring subcontractors on board strategically early in certain things and
245put them under a cost plus arrangement similar to choosing a CM partner because it winds up you get you get the benefit of having that contractor on board early and as long as you trust them to deliver good value you wind up paying the lowest cost in the in the final design. >> You're you're probably not normal. It's typically though it's going to be a hard bid, a competitive bid from that sub. And what we're probably what what you're talking about is we're going to identify uh what do you include in your bid for whatever copper wire, whatever it is, and establish a number that we can track and validate if that were to move in the intervening period before that they could lock that in. Um so, so we're not turning the whole contract
246into a cost plus. We're just a acknowledging that there's a volatile component within that >> $100,000 bid has a $10,000 component that is very volatile. So, if we let them break that and identify that, then we can validate, yeah, that really happens. >> That's an area where they're going to inflate it if they don't if they >> Right. Right. If you just like he says, if you just tell everybody you got all the risks, then you know, we're gonna pay for it. >> Okay, perfect. Thank you. >> It's mine, I think. Right. Yes. So, and I think you guys, this may be a redundant question because you guys have already talked a lot about your process for the pre-construction, but I'll ask it anyway. So, do you have a typical process and what is it
247when a project estimate is over budget during the pre-construction phase? >> Yes. Uh, one of the one of the things that is very important is budget and scope alignment. uh we have had projects in the past where uh a budget is established before we're brought on board and then you're trying to make whatever work to that to that budget. We have other to get the yeah to get the numbers to align. We have had other projects were brought on board before any budget is established. I would say those processes generally go more smoothly because we can help advise at from the very start where those budget numbers ought to be set. Obviously there is, you know, you heard earlier, there's a ton of design work and things that they have to think about over the
248next 60 days between now and the October 8th meeting or 9th meeting. Um, but your CM partner, if they're doing their job well, they will be interacting with them and talking about the cost impacts and trying to set the high level budgets to make sure that when they get to the next stage, you know, after after you go through all of the approvals, when you get to the next stage and you do your budget check, you're you're closely within budget. Uh the process though if things are misaligned is uh our our we have a very detailed cost model which breaks down all of the costs the construction costs which would be included within our GMP ultimately. And so the process we use is collaborative approach with the design team and the client to sit down
249and review the cost model and understand what are the decisions and the scope items that are driving those costs. And then typically we would go through a process and we would prioritize things and say where are some where are some dollars that we could save to scale things back and get things better better aligned. Certainly we would want to check original assumptions and if there are differences or often something something changes in the course of your design. Well previously we thought this but now we think something else. Okay well that's something we need to accommodate. Is there something else we could trade out for it? Uh additionally we would evaluate contingency percentages. As you move through design earlier in the project, you want to have a higher project contingency to address unknown things. As you
250move through, you can reduce that contingency because more things become known and you become more assure about some of those costs. So, that is another strategy to to keep in mind as you work through budget alignment is making sure you've got the right amount of contingency. You don't want to have so much in there that you give up things that you could have afforded, but you don't want to have too little that when you go out to market, you get a surprise and it comes back and you don't have enough to to manage that risk. How do you ensure that your construction bidding process complies with state statutes for public bidding? You want to take that one? >> Yeah. So, um the state statute obviously has certain public uh solicitation requirements and public receipt requirements.
251Um so, it's all out in the open. uh the statute is not so hyper specific that um districts aren't don't have to make their own policies with with more detail like how are we going to I mean you all had a lot of discussions tonight about how do we tailor our policy to match the statute um and so in a similar way uh you know we're we're flexible in that I mean a lot of our clients are are private and can kind of do whatever they want so to speak within the confine confines of the state statute, there's still some latitude regarding how, for instance, how your attorney would interpret what sort of public uh uh public solicitation, public opening would look like. Um, so, uh, we're we're we're flexible with whatever the policy needs
252to be. the Igatia Lindberg which is where we're doing most of our work right now. Uh we we are involved with the design team and the owner in the solicitation process but then they host the documents and the invitations that get sent out and then the bids then are submitted to Lindberg and opened up by them. We're we're of course in attendance. Um but they we don't even see them until the public opening and then once they're open then we take them and do a full analysis because as Paul mentioned a lot of these biders still include a lot of uh clarifications and may or may not include everything that's within the documents that they're supposed to have. So that's where our professional opinion needs to come in and and evaluate do a proper evaluation
253and then we submit that to Lindberg for their approval before an award. So in in any event, so the followup is so you're you're working successfully within those processes. Lindberg, you have the same statutes apply. >> Yes, absolutely. >> Right. And I would I would say that we to the extent that the district working allows our goal is to make the um the process as clean and simple for the sub as we can. That's really our goal. There are subs who will literally not turn in bid if you make it too hard. >> So, so we really within again working with your attorney, we want to make it not intimidating for them to turn in >> despite all the efforts of the Missouri legis. >> That's right. Yeah. You may you may or may not
254find it surprising that different uh municipal attorneys interpret the statutes differently. >> Do uh do you intend to self-perform any work. >> Um, we're capable of self-performing uh demolition, concrete, carpentry. Um, so we have um trade workers that are capable of doing that. Many of our clients want us to perform those. Uh we can often deliver them at a savings. We can offer often absorb in particular demo which is very difficult to define. Uh a price from a demo subcontractor is often you know a guaranteed minimum and all the things that they discover and find in the process becomes added change orders whereas we often absorb all that with our you know our guys are working there and they just go ahead and take care of it. Um, now some of the, you know, in
255Lindberg's case, as as our most recent example, you know, their policy is that we have to bid that just like anyone else. So, we submit a bid. Again, that's to Lindberg. So, we don't get to see the bids before anyone else does. And we've submitted bids on all three of those scopes, demolition, carpentry, and concrete. And in that particular case, we've been successful with demolition. Successful meaning we were the low number, sometimes by quite a bit. And we execute that with no changes. Um we also get the benefit and there may be some opportunity here because we have that we can do uh selective demolition discovery uh try to you know in a in a surgical way try to uh open up some of the unknowns early to assist the design team so that we
256get more information the drawings are better and there are fewer u fewer unknowns. >> That covers it. Thank you. >> Um, in the construction manager risk process, what financial risks are retained by the owner? >> Um, it depends on what part of the process we're talking about. So certainly early in the process, uh, most of them because until we define what is the scope and, you know, we have to figure out what you really need and and what we're up against. Once we put that GMP on there though, we got pretty much we got the vast majority of it. The only thing then is I guess if there would be um again if you would want to add scope like we talked if there were some uh underground condition that wasn't detected during all the
257pre-esting or what else? I mean there's not >> usually usually the biggest risk to the clients on the projects where the CM are unforeseen conditions either subgrade underground or in an existing building demolition discovery that you can't see until later or scope or scope changes. Um I would say the other risks then fall outside of the the hard construction cost GMP and would be like furniture pricing when you go buy all new furniture desks etc. Uh if you sometimes technology some clients want to all of the technology within our scope. Others have certain things that they do in house and so they would keep some portions of that. So there can be risk. Obviously if you keep some things to self-perform or do yourself then even under a CM process you still retain the risk
258of that because you're doing the purchasing and procurement of those items. >> But if it's under our scope then it's then it's on us. And and so for example if a subcontractor went out of business and we had to go hire somebody else that's that's ours to deal with within our GMP. That's one of our biggest risks, frankly, is sub failure or or sub inability slash unwillingness to perform, right? Those are the those are the big risks, >> right? >> But that's on us. Once we give you the GMP, that's our risk. >> Okay. Perhaps the most important question. Why should the school district of Clayton choose BSI? >> I guess I'll go first. Um I I think it it probably uh well for for a lot of things we've said I mean you know
259this this is you know we we are not just a school contractor you know I know some all they do is schools or mostly school we do a lot of things you know but but um our our track record on doing uh you know high-profile work for really good clients is is unsurpassed and we would encourage you I don't know if you know you probably got to make a decision quickly because we got to put an estimate together. Um but but when when when we have clients who are able to take the time to really do thorough reference checks, we normally get picked, you know. Um we we live just really live on the experience of of the work that we've done. Uh so I guess biggest thing would be that, you know, we're going
260to do what we said we're going to do and we're going to stand behind our work. Um, and this guy and his team and their pre-construction is phenomenal and and in and Steve a complete confidence in in in him. And again, you can talk to people limber just to say how that experience has gone and all the you know, you call anybody we've ever worked for. Uh, so I think I think we're going to keep everybody out of trouble because we're not going to have a big budget bust. We're going to buy really well for you. We think we can buy this better than anybody else in town. Um, and then we're going to build you a quality building and stand behind our work. Did >> I miss anything? >> Thank you. >> Thanks. I'm
261curious uh Nina if you have any questions for BSI. >> Do you guys have any procedures in place to minimize disruption to the school? >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, a lot that's all going to happen in pre-construction where we're going to be meeting with the principles and uh uh the the building staff. Um I mean handling things like uh parent pickup and drop off. Uh who what uh how do we uh segregate construction traffic from parental traffic or even just entrances? You know, where are the workers coming in? Where are the students coming in? Um we typically perform we've we typically perform um demolition at night or on weekends if it's it's allowed and disruptive. Uh we've had to uh cease operations during uh uh standardized testing. Um again this is all sk
262a lot of this is related to communication and schedules. If we get the information and we know what the uh needs of the school are, then we work around that, right? And then and we communicate to them, hey, we're gonna have to bring a crane in here. Is it okay if we bring it in at 6:00 in the morning so that we're here and set up and in, you know, behind the school well before uh parental drop off. So, it's it's very common, very typical. Very few projects and virtually none in St. Louis anymore built in just some open field somewhere with no disruption whatsoever. It's either extensive renovation in an occupied school or a substantial wing on on an act active campus and so yeah planning communication and understanding the needs and addressing them.
263>> Does anyone else have any additional questions? Chris, >> so along those same lines um you tell us how you know our elementary are very much in the middle of everything. >> Yeah. >> So, can you help us understand how you're going to communicate with the neighbors and you know around those schools and help them to deal with the construction? Like what do you guys have in place that you do that really takes into consideration the fact that it's not just that school that's going to be impacted, it's our entire community, that whole neighborhood, >> right? >> Yeah. We we would often uh work with you on establishing what messaging do we want to say. Um and we would probably encourage that coming from you all. Um not that we wouldn't participate in it, but
264like they don't necessarily want to hear from us, but they want to hear, you know, what are the proactive measures? So, we would develop that plan and then share it with you to try to communicate that to the adjacent constituents. Um, other than that, it's it's just being very diligent about understanding that there are folks that are going to be disrupted by this and we need we can't pretend like they won't be, but we have to minimize it to the greatest extent possible. Whether that's being sensitive to noise or street cleaning or handing out car wash, you know, we created some dust and we're going to hand out some car wash coupons. I mean, these are all things that we've done and and it it sounds like silly, not a big deal, but that goes
265a long way for >> Yeah. >> No, it's a big deal of that person. >> I can't I can't overstate the importance of the personality of our superintendent. >> Yes. >> Um is a really big deal and and they I mean typically >> they befriend people pretty well. Absolutely. Jake Finery, Jason Heathman, guys who might be, you know, Jake Jake will be on one of our projects here. And Jason, the these they're just salt of the earth kind of people who >> they usually become best friends with the old guy in the neighborhood that walks around and wants to know what's going on. >> Yeah. They get real tight. >> I had one just one final question. Um Paul, you had mentioned u you know your buildings are just built better or that you that's
266reputation. So what would be some examples of like things that you're doing to ensure you know um that that is the case. Just a couple maybe. >> Well, yeah. Let me let me give you an example of uh so there we we followed another contractor on a particular campus. Um and we uh went through a very thorough pre-installation meeting on how we were going to put in the windows in this building and how we were going to flash them and to make sure that we got all the details right. We had the uh the manufacturer of the window and the flashing system. Then we did a mockup and we have everybody there like, "Okay, here's how we're doing it." And so uh we did that and everything was going great for about the first week.
267And then they brought in a new carpenter to start installing some of the windows and he did it wrong and our superintendent was on him right away and he said, he said, "Hey, wait, wait, wait, wait a minute, wait a minute. This is not how we're doing this." You know, he said, "What do you mean? I put in all the windows in that previous building and everything was fine. You know, it it wasn't it was a sloppy, lousy way to do it. So, um it it doesn't happen if you don't make it happen. I mean, I sad to say most most people in the trades, they want to do a good job, you know, but I will say that um in general, the the the average level of a trade worker is not quite what
268it was maybe 25 years ago. So they we have to do more oversight than we used to, sad to say. Just it's just the reality. But you got to do it, you know, and so you got to set the set the tone. We're just fanatics about pre-installation meetings. Um and then our superintendents are fanatics about enforcing what we talked about. And and so that that's how you do it. >> Thank you. >> And and I'd say just to clarify, that's the that's the third part of our quality control program. We really have three big components. One is starts in pre-construction and it's the the reviews of the documents. We're looking for water infiltration problems in places where we don't think the flashing or the drainage is going to work properly. We flag those time those
269types of things all the time for the design team. We bring it up. We talk about it. We get the drawings right before they ever go out to bid or to be built. Then the second piece is when we go through the submitt process and making sure that the submitts come in and it's the proper product. So that's a project manager will do that. And then finally, the pre-installation meeting is a meeting that happens on site with the people who will be installing the work led by our project team to make sure that everybody agrees, okay, this is what the documents require. Here's how we're going to do this. And then the superintendent is, you know, watching them as they start to work to make sure that they follow through on those commitments. So that's
270interesting. So you um so as part of the design process, you guys are involved looking for potential because it's like may look pretty, but it may have a maintenance problem or or some some foreseeable issue. >> 100%. are absolutely looking for that. We one of our we have a code of ethics and one of them is build it like you're going to own it, you know, and and even to to pick an example another example. So so POW Hall, it's a big job. They're spent a lot of money, you know, it's like $15 million and and we got to a certain point in the design and we realized that, you know, they had they had uh came the under drain underneath this building and and whoever it was, they the engineers said, "I think it's
271okay." And so that we noticed that during the design, we're like, "You got to be kidding me. We're gonna spend all this money and we're going to leave like a 90-y old drain under there hoping that it has what, another five years in it, you know, and so this is the kind of thing that we raise our hand and we say, "No, don't do this." You know, and so we really uh do try to take that responsibility on to put ourselves in your shoes. If we're going to own this building, what would we do? So yeah, we we will probably bring some things up to the design team and you guys during reconstruction that a lot of people would. >> Yeah. A couple more. Um you said you've worked with Perkins and Will. Have you
272worked how many how often have you worked with them? Have you worked with Paragon? >> Uh I can just speak to Perkins and Will. Bergs of Will uh designed Lindberg High School and they also uh designed Crestwood Elementary which is just wrapping up. Oh, and the idea center and then they are also designing what's going to be we call it the farmers club because that's what the property that Lindberg bought, but it's going to become their agricultural technology building for the K through2. So, they're going to do programs all the way through from K through 12 for the and Perkins will is designing that one as well. >> Great. So that's four of them I guess and it's all my experience with them. I mean they're a Chicago based firm um and specializing in K
273through2 education as you heard and so yeah that's the four of them. >> I would add that I worked on a project with Perkins from their Minneapolis office. Uh it was a corporate conference center and uh there was an associated project out there. So we had a couple experiences with them. That office was also very it was a very positive experience. The one thing that we found with them in particular on these school projects you earlier about keeping budgets aligned. Uh they have been much more responsible to that once a budget is established. They're going to, you know, they're going to try to figure out let's get let's get everything that we can into this budget, but there are things that usually don't fit. And so you've got to make compromises and compromises and decisions,
274but they've they have proved to to stick to those scopes very well compared to some other architects that we've worked with who tend to veer off scope and then well, we added all these things. So the costs go up and then we got to take things out and you go along and then they add some more things and then you got to take cost back out. So that's been, you know, >> yeah, applause to them for >> I'm going to piggy back off that. You already hired them, so you don't need me telling you this, >> but uh that not only do they stay within the guard rails of the scope, but they also hit their dates on drawing production, which is obviously very important because the schedule really is made on the early end,
275right? I mean, you asked about recovering the schedule on the back end. Well, yeah, but we really got to meet the schedule on the front end. and and they also I've been in many of those design cherettes or you know the the things that they led for you all that and they do an outstanding job. So yeah, you're you're in good hands with them on those projects for sure. >> We we have not worked directly with Paragon yet. >> And then my last question is do you do anything to um do any sort of uh integrating our students in you know being educated around your work? Do you have anything in place that in includes our students as >> you know helping them learn actively around learning? >> Yeah, for sure. >> Uh well, you
276want to talk about your presentation? >> I mean we we we have done that for different school clients in the past depending on what they're looking for. Uh one specific example is St. High after we did their chapel project, uh we went up and we did a presentation to it was directed to the uh the STEM club and any students it was open anybody was invited who was interested specifically in engineering and considering engineering for college. And so we did a presentation talk about the construction of the chapel, how we transformed it. it was an interior renovation project and then also all of the different professional disciplines that are involved in the project uh to give them a better understanding of if they have an interest in that what what paths of study they might
277be able to pursue. So that's one specific thing and then Steve you >> Yeah. Um when we give tours I mean a lot of it's very age dependent. >> Yeah. Um and you know, but often it's uh um you know, at a time of day when when we can safely take students through in a supervised fashion >> with hard hats >> uh with hard hats and proper Yeah. >> Um I've I've brought uh student journalists through to do stories for the paper. Um uh uh teachers some teachers want to see their the space that they are going to be working in and sometimes have comments that you know >> it can be the change order Steve they want to change things >> but we can avoid we can avoid the changes that occur after they
278move in right we if we know what they're looking for early early enough um so it's really I' I've gone to uh present to um I don't know second or third graders in a gifted gifted program that they were studying structures and being a structural engineer I I was able to try to communicate what little I retained from school and so >> so it's really just by request you know >> it's by request I mean you know it can be it can be as varied as as the idea of what we want to do you know >> there's nothing there's nothing that we try to force upon any any client it's you know if something if something works and you're interested in we can help develop develop that >> drone oh I forgot a drone
279uh limber has a drone program. So, they were flying drones over the project site and documenting Yeah. progress photos and things. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Well, thank you very much for your presentation and for answering all of our questions so thoroughly. We appreciate it. >> I know. I know it's a late night, so thank you very much. >> Thanks for your attention this late night. We appreciate it. >> Thanks. Okay. So, um everybody should have um a sheet at the top. It says CM scoring. Does everyone see that? Um it's on the back of Does nobody have this except me? >> Oh yeah, Nina, you can go. >> Okay, hold on. We're looking for it. We're looking I I'm sorry. I thought everybody had a copy of the scoring sheet. >> Oh, you do?
280>> Okay. Do you see what Kim's holding up? Does everybody have that? It's a sheet of paper at the top. It's on the This is what's on the back. It's the questions, but they're single spaced. a sheet that has our interview questions single spaced. >> Okay. Yes. Okay, we do have it. Okay. >> So, I'll wait till everyone finds this. Sorry, we had a lot of papers tonight. So, okay, everybody found it. So, you'll see that um there's There are several categories that we're scoring them in. Several have already been um filled in and we have subtotals. At the bottom, you'll see where it says board interview. There are three categories to score them in bidding procedures and transparency, ability to maintain schedule, and ability to manage budget. So, I would like for everyone to
281score in that section, but also please review the subtotals at the top that had already been filled that we had already filled in. There are certain categories um that may be more important than others to you. So, so pay attention to the top as well, but go ahead and score the bottom. I'll give everyone a few minutes based on our interviews and then we'll come back around with the scores totals. >> Yeah. Just fill it out and then we're just gonna >> Yes. Whoever scores higher will win. Yes. >> Yeah. I'm sorry. Yes. >> Yes. We are going to discuss. I want us to score first and then we're gonna go through it. I think Jason. Okay. Oh, no. Just just hold on. We're just going to discuss. Um, so the top portion um John
282I think I would like to direct any questions about the top portion to John since he did the leg work on these these sections. um and the scoring. So I would just open it up for him to explain any of the top question to answer any questions that you have about the top part >> and I can make a few statements here. >> Yeah. >> First off, I think um you just interviewed two outstanding firms. Um >> both have uh excellent portfolios of work. both have excellent references. Um, our review of their credentials that they've submitted to us indicate to us that they have adequate bond capacity uh to perform the work that we will anticipate through these projects. Uh they have the financial resources to cash flow these projects on their side of the
283equation. um they have good staffing uh that can uh do that. So they have all those uh essential qualities. Um one of them has been working for Lou Doo recently. That's SM Wilson. One has been working for Lindberg recently. And so I hear from both of those uh districts good reports. Um so they they did submit their RFQS. Those were very complete, very informative. Their RFPs were uh complete and generally informative. I I if you look at my scoring here, I um uh I have a lower score on SM Wilson slightly. Uh and I'd like to explain that when we sent out that RFP, we um asked for fee structure and they both supplied that. We also sent out a a proposed draft contract for the CM services and within that we gave them an
284opportunity to um take exception to provisions in the contract uh and ask them in the alternative if you don't like this tell us what you want. Um BSI answered those questions. They had some exceptions. They clearly delineated what their alternatives might be, but they also indicated we'll take this contract as is. Um SM Wilson had some exceptions. Uh had general conversation about their what they would prefer, but wanted to still have further discussion. And most of this is around how we handle allowances and contingencies. uh maybe liquid data damages, things like that. So, um we've had some follow-up email and discussion, but uh I did give them a slight deduct on that. Um one of the things that that impresses me with uh BSI in this case is their lack of history of latigious situations.
285Um, you know, you don't like to ever have that. I don't like to be in a situation where we're in court or even mediation situations where some third party is going to tell us what to do. Usually, both of us walk away unhappy. I think the idea of us being able to retain control of those decisions and work that out with the other party ultimately yields the best outcomes. takes less time. Usually we can solve that. We both should be mutually uh satisfied with that. SM Wilson's fees are lower. All these fees are really percentage rates of fee. I've put dollars amount based on a budget of just shy of 80 million, but they're actually percentage fees. So, um, in the work that would be granted, I would say, um, SM Wilson's fees are lower.
286Um, but the difference on say $80 million is around a half a million dollars of difference uh, of project. So, those are some of the differences I see between these firms. Um, I think either one can do the work. Um, if we're going to pick one, that's that's our challenge tonight. >> Does anyone have questions for John based on how he scored some of those ahead of tonight or based on what he just said? Clearly looking at the numbers here, they're very, very close. >> I Yeah, they're very close. >> Yeah, I um Well, that explanation was helpful, John, and I agree with you. I think we do have two very good firms and and so thank you for running a process that that got us those options. Um, I I understand that how you
287scored I think I now understand how you score the top part and where if you didn't give someone a five why why that is the case like and I don't know if the points I don't know if we're really doing points at the end of the day and doing that as a >> not necessarily but it just helps us see who rises >> well like in some cases you know you've won like a 20 to 17 what you know like when it came to the dollar figures how did you decide to get, you know what I mean? How how did you decide to give those points, >> right? Well, I'd say to some level they're arbitrary, but um I just based on the magnitude of difference, I made those scores. >> Gotcha. Okay. >> I
288don't think the cost I mean first person personally I'll speak as treasure. I don't think when we're talking about like six ten of a basis point that those the numbers as far as the costs are going to be a material consideration for us given where we are financially as a school district. So I think probably the the things above the costs if we're going to talk about um if those factor decision are more important. I guess what's not reflected on this list that I'd like to hear about is the reference checks. So who has the school district talked to it sounds like both um both these firms both very qualified both you know um have done exceptional projects that we're all familiar with has somebody talked to Lindberg because it sounds like they've done projects
289both of them have done projects for the school >> I have >> and how was the feedback >> glowing oh glowing I mean, >> okay. >> I mean, uh, excellent >> for both. >> I had to talk to superintendent of Lindberg and he had an excellent questions. >> Did you mean glowing for for both firms? John, or just BSI who's currently doing Lindberg? >> Lindberg had glowing or excellent references for BSI. Leoo had excellent references for SM Wilson >> and in talking to superintendent he would agree he had excellent references for Wilson. His only challenge he felt he expressed it to me was there. The only other wondering that I have is that There seems to be a difference in um kind of project management process based on what we heard from Whiki at Leoo
290about the change management process where the board approved every change management order that came from SN Wilson and it sounds like I can't remember the number the total number they told us but it was a very high number >> and then to hear from BSI that they really limit the change management process I I mean that is a that's probably a consideration factor of you know is it just a different way in which they manage the project overall is it just the process that Leoo had in place that >> I was going to say that might have been Leoo's board that is >> I thought that was >> why are there different approaches to that >> yeah it just seems >> I can't speak for the two CMS that are here I will say, you
291know, in my experience, um, contractors and subcontractors, depending on who they are, uh, some of them want to feed change orders in for every little thing. It's not in the plans or condition change or this. Others will absorb those smaller ones uh, and limit it more to serious undiscovered items or, uh, changes in scope, things like that. So, uh I think it really comes down to the owner, the district, uh setting the term, the tone as well is that it starts really in the design process. We're going to design a project and when we get to the construction documents, they have to be complete and we're going to review them and make sure that they are as complete as possible so that the bids are legitimate and you have a defense to not accepting change
292orders. If the plans are complete, it really is completely rational and defensible to say, "No, the plans were there. You knew what you bid what the plans were. We're not going to accept the change order. I think these I think that gets solved in the document phase. >> That's fair. >> Did you have a question there or no? I thought I saw you about to ask. I was going to kind of agree with what Kim was saying and say it a little different way, which is not only within the scope of the budget of the school district, but within the scope of the project we're looking at here. Um, you know, control of the overall picture of the project is much more important than some number some of the smaller numbers that we're looking at
293here. Smaller in the grand scheme of things. You know, I have uh I don't think this district and I have not engaged in a CM process before. Um what sounds good at the beginning of transferring risk potentially really is we're trying to manage risk but they're trying to manage risk. We both have risk in the situation just like any contractor seems toward. So there, you know, while we, as we move forward in this process, we're both trying to protect and manage risk in these things, and that's a good thing. I mean, we all want to do that, but we should not be under the impression that we're handing off our all of our risk to someone else. That's not what's happening here. U being that they're scored so closely and we're dealing with two very
294qualified firms, what does everyone see are the distinguishing factors that will help us make our decision when we look at this chart? >> Can I just say that the things that I think are distinguishing aren't even on the chart. >> Okay. >> I mean, I literally scored them both the same for those >> for the last three questions that I they both got total points. You know what I mean? That's how close in in terms of um um >> you know quality you know >> it just we were dealing with really quality firms here. So the distinguishing factors for me are the things that I was asking at about at the very end of the BS >> BSI >> thank you BSI SM Wilson spokes very clearly about two things that they have baked into
295their system. one being that they go knock on doors in the neighborhoods. And I I'm just very concerned about our neighborhoods, right? I'm concerned about our neighbors and what this how this will impact them. The fact that they already have in place this system where they know how important it is to engage with the neighbors and to make sure that they are informed and they feel heard, etc., etc., I think is a really cool thing. I I don't doubt that BSI would do that if we asked them to. that's what their response was. But I do like that SM Wilson has that as as a as as a like a value and as a you know thing that they know to do, right? >> The other thing is that um SM Wilson has the skilled
296program and it's just a bakedin thing. They already know they come to us saying we want to help your kids be engaged in this and have this be part of the curriculum in any way that you know works for us. I think that's pretty amazing too. I think BSI would probably, you know, again, if we wanted them to would do X, Y, or Z, but that's a different me mode than doing things like proactively, you know, than rather than just us asking them to. And I really like, you know, our our philosophy is hands-on learning, you know, all these things. We want, you know, active learning, all these things. I think having our kids be as involved in pro in this process as possible would be what I would vote for would seem to me
297the best way for our kids to get the most out of this not just because they get a school at the end of it but because they have learned about this process in such an active and engaging way. >> Wow. I was I mean I I hear what you're saying on that and I think perhaps even if you pull out a little bit the one distinguishing factor and I can go through what I thought distinguished BSI from SM Wilson and vice versa you know on multiple in multiple areas but I I do think SM Wilson demonstrated a clear just more experience in the K through2 space right in the public school space and so and I think what you're talking about is a reflection of just lots of experience with that um you know BSI
298is is doing, you know, has worked on is doing some really cool projects. I'm excited to actually see PA Hall. So, I was interested in that. But, um, you know, like there wasn't a ton of K through 12 experience that came across >> except the private schools were often compared to >> Yeah. >> community. >> That's fair. >> Flu. >> But I would say I would say but I think that's a reflection. I suspect that the neighborhood relations, you know, that Chris was talking about, some things like that might might be a little more important in a public school setting. I guess I I mean I look at this chart and I look at the things that are above the numbers in the portion that John filled out and I think those are some pretty
299important things for us educationally because we're going to put kids in these spaces and we're going to control the amount of money we spend on them. And there's a small but real preference that our chief financial officer has expressed in those numbers there and I would like to give that some weight myself. >> Anyone were you going to say something or >> Oh, I was just going to say I I do think that um you know given the sort of um unique that we have buildings we have um that maybe actually experience in other types of >> buildings might actually be of some real value. Think about >> the old buildings they've worked on versus new construction that I mean >> that'sanical crazy marriage of old and new, you know. >> So I just think
300>> that's a fair point. >> I thought the same thing when we saw that slide like if you can do those kind of spaces like what cool experience you could that brings to what we're trying to do here. >> Well and they spoke to how important Perkins will is in that process too. you know, it's not it's they we know we've got a partner that's going to give us a really good understanding of our design for school purposes regardless. And you know, does that make >> they kind of fill that >> John? Do you have a recommendation for us by any chance? I mean, >> I think you did >> or this might say it, >> but it's there. So is it really? I mean, and you also need to factor in tonight. >> Yeah.
301>> As I said, I think you've got two, you know, I I these are un sometimes unpleasant decisions that have to be made because >> the good side is you I don't think you can make a bad decision. >> Um, and I'll offer you two recommendations or an alternative recommendation. Um, I think based on my evaluation of this, my recommendation to you if you're going to hire one would be BSI. At the same time, I would say that we have two teams going. This would be my alternative recommendation was we have the Paragon Perkins team working on elementary buildings >> and We have BLED working on outdoor athletics. You could hire one firm for one team and another firm for the second team. That would be an alternative recommendation. I probably didn't give you the
302recommendation you wanted to hear. >> Clear as mud. >> How does everyone feel about that? What John said going with one versus two? Well, does one firm have more experience with sports facilities? We didn't really spend a lot of time asking about sports facilities. >> Just to give them both, you know, opportunity or is it because you think one is better? I think they're both excellent firms and I was >> reluctant to let either >> relant to pick one or the other, but if I, like I said, if I had to pick one, I I think I I think the narrow edge goes to BSI myself. >> I would say um >> the ide I have to admit what of all of these categories um even though it wasn't a huge difference in the scoring
303but something I think that stands out to me is the history of conflict resolution and the cases of mediation and I don't know the details of those obviously you know have more information John but I think that's something that strongly consider here. Um, if we have a firm that has a clean history and has not engaged in any mediation or litigation, it gives me a little more confidence in that. >> Who did I SM Wilson built down as a general contractor, I believe. >> Yeah. So what about like the plumbing issues we've talked about that were have come out of like the facility study that we're experiencing at W down even though it was recently built. I think at my understanding of that story was at the time that was under construction, there was some
304budget issues and they were trying to restrain the cost of that and I think they chose a different grade of there was a decision that was involved the board of education at that time to put a different type of drain pipe cast iron drain pipe into the facility and that stuff today is challen challenging us >> or who knows who's to blame for that who >> decision that was >> I remember there was the mention of the stairwell the lights above the stairwell at wide down that were poorly placed there's some lights that are that they don't even use because the it's almost impossible to change the light bulbs >> it's over it's over the light it's over the stairwell am I making this up >> we we have that challenge in our too. But
305I I mean that's that may be more of a design issue than >> Yeah, I just bring it up for bringing up things. You know, >> we are six people tonight, not seven. So >> they >> uh not that I'm aware of. >> I don't think so. >> So we have worked with It was a good >> none of us were around when that happened. But >> except for what Kim's talking about, but >> we don't know whose decision that was. >> I I don't think you should make your decision on that basis. >> We hired him more than once in the past. So that says >> there was some confidence there. Um, does anyone if we were We don't have to decide tonight, but we'd like to because of course it just puts the
306whole project back if we don't. Um, >> we should get this. >> Yeah. So, I'd like to decide tonight. Does everyone in their heads feel that they have that they know who they would choose? Ben and Leo are saying yes. Yes. Could we vote is exactly what I'm trying to get to. >> Could you, Chris? >> Sure. I I just I would be happy. >> I would be too. I would be too. But do we all feel a preference to choosing one versus John's other option? Go ahead, Leo. >> Unless John is recommending doing two because he has a preference for that. I would I think what he said was as a fallback. >> Yeah. >> Two. And so if the recommendation is one, I would go. >> Okay. >> Are you recommending two? >>
307I was I would recommend one. I made an alternative to you in case you needed a different recommendation. >> No, I don't. Look, I mean, as far as the things that we were asked to evaluate tonight with respect to and and just so that um both the firms that are still waiting here uh so late on a Tuesday night for a decision. >> So, we are asked as a board to evaluate bidding procedures and transparency, ability to maintain schedule and ability to manage budget. And from what I heard and from what I saw in the RFP responses and the RFQ responses, for me, it's a dead tie for both. So then you know for me then I defer to the scoring that's above. >> Yeah. >> Because both firms are well qualified to do this
308work. >> Yeah. >> And just so everyone's understands what Kim's getting at here, the scoring above has BSI at a slight edge. So >> vary by like a hair. >> Yeah. >> But again, the scoring above does not include the things that I mentioned about, you know, getting our students involved and, you know, the way that SM Wilson would integrate with the community and the way that we know we are going to need in this community. >> I'm not saying BS I can't. I'm just saying they really spoke to that. So those things aren't on here. And to me, if we were going to rate those two, I would give the bigger the higher score in those help with the bond. >> Yeah. >> So, how do how do we want to evaluate that aspect?
309>> That's a huge one. >> I wish we would ask >> in the pre-bond. >> Well, they're still here. We can ask >> the pre-bond part of our work anyway. They will be developing all the cost data that we will be using to inform the public. >> I was gonna I thought it really >> how involved with helping with the bond would a CM be I guess >> John >> mean as far as >> like Kim mentioned this didn't this didn't talk about helping with the bond how much help with the bond would a CB >> I think is in this particular bond issue it's going to be very critical that we have accurate well-developed cost information so the selected party will be develing that in conjunction with the design team to prepare that for
310and it's information we're going to use as part of theformational campaign that we have for the bond issue >> but there's a whole strategy and >> uh like language around ballot measure that's too >> which I don't know if that's up to the sen Wilson >> communications >> would we be hiring help with our bond campaign. >> So we have discussed that if you remember John the board approved for us to hire someone if we need it at that point um Gina and I have been talking to different firms in terms of just the survey portion of it. We're talking to someone else as an advisory role who's done this work before >> and then we're looking at hiring for the communications department for the long run >> to do the work so that she
311also has experience. >> But we would be looking at the information team obviously all the costs that the CM provides us. It's also true. So, is there is there anyone else here that's really invested in I'd like to know what you think we should do about having our kids be more involved with because of that. >> I would I personally wouldn't make a decision on that. I think some of these things are way are more important. I like that they're 5050 in my eyes and that's one thing >> if they're 50 they're not 50 >> equal to me >> does that how do you feel about that aspect of it >> I think you absolutely yeah absolutely does Wilson has a very um thorough program that they have that they approach with but that's also
312not to say that I don't think BSI would not do that. >> Correct. Right. You're saying they did say they would respond to whatever needed. So that would be something that even with them not having that in place, you feel like you would be you ask them to engage that kind of >> and and to your point, Essen Wilson already has that program in place. >> But do you have a preference, Nisha? >> I think looking at all the information and looking at the rubric, which I don't have in front of me, I would give a slight edge to BSI. or similar >> and again for me it was talking to the two superintendents and getting some information with that. >> Yeah. From the reference check and again I don't want to I don't want
313to say that SM Wilson didn't get a great reference check. Um but I do feel the it was a stronger one from Linds. >> I would >> it is I would Yeah, >> it's an important one. >> Yeah, I agree. That's why I brought that up because it is so close, but I think that's a really important >> difference. So, >> I Okay, >> make a motion. Um well we have >> you read the motion >> the motion >> but we has a it has a blank in it >> so we kind of need to vote but we need to vote and then read the motion >> for that firm I think no >> so we just read >> or you're saying read the motion both ways >> we have she wants to hear from
314all of us what we want that word to be >> right I was just gonna have everyone raise their hands is that what you mean Okay. >> Although we're a six, we're an even number tonight. So, um Okay. All those. >> No. >> Well, it's a >> Okay. If you prefer SM Wilson, raise your hand. >> Don't be >> I just >> You can raise your hand. I don't I'm not It's hard. >> I know it's it is hard. They're very close >> for different reasons. I want I want to know that I want to know that I think what they do with students is >> I extremely important and I value it so much and I I prefer that in that I do. I really do. And so I'm asking Nisha to please do
315a good job of making sure that BSI that's what we ch might also engage us with our >> It's a great opportunity to do that. I agree. If you prefer BSI, raise your hand. >> Okay. Thank you. Now, will you read the motion, please, with BSI? >> 8.2. >> I move to service and authorize the administration to negotiate a contract. services include a clear >> second. >> Okay. All those in favor? >> I. Any opposed? Okay. Motion passes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you everyone for coming here tonight for that long, late, thorough process. As we said, this was and as you heard, very close and hard decision here. So, we appreciate everybody's work around this. Um, moving on to agenda item nine. Ben, do you have a parks and wreck update? Felicia thought you
316might >> I actually was out of town last meeting, so I just did. Sorry. >> That's okay. That's okay. Does anyone else have any other committee reports or updates? Thank you so much. Thank you. Anyone else have any other reports? Okay, we can move to ajourn.