001There you go. >> Good morning everybody. I'd like to say thank you to those of you who are joining us both uh in the audience, those of you on staff as well, those of you joining us online. Uh this is a special open session. Uh this will be about a five-minute open session, then we'll move towards a retreat. So, I'd like to call this special open session uh in order uh with the pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you board. I have a motion to approve the agenda for August 2nd, 2025 as presented. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Motion by Vice President Grder, seconded
002by Treasurer Owens. All those in favor say I. >> I. All those opposed say no. >> The motion passes. A board. I have a motion to approve the consent agenda as presented. >> So moved. Second. >> Motion by Vice President Grder, second by Treasurer Owens. uh bo uh board before voting is there any discussion on the two agenda items? Okay, seeing that there are no comments that board member wants to make. Uh all those in favor say I. >> I. All those opposed say no. Motion passes. Board, I have a motion to adjourn the special open session. So moved. >> Second. >> Motion by Vice President Grder, second by Director Harmon. All those in favor say I. >> All those opposed say no. Motion passes. At this time, I'd like to call to order our
003board retreat. I want to again thank you all for being here. Uh this is uh a commitment to the district and you've all demonstrated that in this gathering, both of you who are here observing, those watching online, and all the staff who are gathered together. Uh today is a chance to focus on reflection, collaboration, and strategic thinking. Uh this retreat is not about looking where we are. >> Can you hear me? >> Oh, somebody >> you turned your mic on. >> Hi everybody. Um so we have somebody joining us. Uh Director Oki is joining us online and uh I'm going to push buttons and see what button works. So hi there. So Director Oki is joining us online as well and we'll update you. >> Says it's off. Hit unmute there on the right. >>
004Yeah, >> there we go. I can hear you. Hi. Okay. Um, can you mute your mic? Um, Sarah, and then we'll take care of that. Thank you so much. Uh, so this is a meeting we had scheduled for the last couple of months. It was on the July board agenda. This is our yearly retreat and we're opening uh today's meeting with open minds, a spirit of partnership, and a shared commitment to doing what's best for students and the families we serve. We want this to be the best school district for all students and we get a chance to pursue that in this meeting. Um this meeting will have uh open this retreat will have two main sections. The first section is a board training and the second section will be some other conversations that help
005us lead as board members. So for that I'd like to give a warm welcome to Mr. John DS MSBA's director of board development and Susan Goldhammer MSBA's chief law and policy. uh they will spend the next two hours reviewing board governance. The hope is that if the board uh performs better, governs better, the district runs better. And so we get a chance to learn uh some uh recommendations what that looks like and best practices. So with that, I'd like to invite John uh DS to come and u begin our presentation. >> Good morning. >> Morning. How are you? >> Great. Good. Good. >> Good. Thank you for having us. Really appreciate it. I know that you worked just a few weeks ago with Susan and Lisa. Lisa really wanted to be here for this second
006conversation, but sadly she was forced to spend 10 days touring Europe. So she is unable to come today. So I'm I'm happy to step in as the relief pitcher as it were and continue our conversation uh about effective governance. Uh I've talked in preparation, we talked with both Mark and Stephen and um they both indicated to us that the board members are very focused on improving our practices when it comes to effective governance and learning more about effective governance. And that's great because that makes our job way way easier when you all are invested in doing what's best for all the students in your district. So, we're going to be talking a lot today and so I know we have one person some some parts of our conversation will be like with a shoulder partner.
007So, if it sounded like your mo uh mobile board member might be able to hear you all if you if we can include her in those conversations as your shoulder partner. Um because I want to make sure everybody's able to participate. But to start with, I would love for us to warm up a little bit by sharing briefly with the group your name, how long you've been on the board, and one thing that makes you proud about the Francis House School District. So, you might think about that one for just a second and Stephen gets to go first, right, >> as president. So, uh, Steven Blair, I've been on the board since April of 24 and a couple years ago, I moved here because the reputation Francis How was so great. I chose the school
008district over others. Um, and the reputation is what makes it great and because reputation is what's gets built by all the teachers, all the admin, and that's what I'm really proud of. >> Great. Sarah, >> hi. Um, I'm Sarah and that's my dog barking in the background. Um, I'm I'm in I'm in Michigan right now. our people. >> Um I've been elected I was elected in April of 25. Um and one of the things that I'm super proud of is not only am I a mother um who raised two children in the district, you know that had um sorry guys, wonderful experiences. Um I'm also a teacher. And so, um, one of the things I'm most proud of is our our teachers and our educators and what they give to make our district successful and
009how they continuously um, go above and beyond to um, despite, you know, all the odds that we're facing right now in education. Um, and that's what I'm proud of. >> Great. >> Thank you. >> Uh, Amy Grider, I was elected this April also. Oh, microphone. Sorry. Amy Grider. I was also elected this April. Um, lots of things obviously make me proud about this district, but as somebody who grew up here, graduated in the district, um, I would say the opportunities that this district has, and I graduated in 1994, so I've been here a minute. >> Let's not say when we >> But it's uh, even even when I was in school, the opportunities that we had were amazing. I got to travel around the country with my show choir and do I mean just all
010kinds of things and then my two older kids who've also graduated through the district. >> That was the best. >> Yes. Who've already graduated through the district also had awesome opportunities. So I just see that continuing for decades and I think that is pretty phenomenal. >> Great. Okay. >> Hi, I'm Carol Owens and I'm a retired music teacher. So I loved what she just said. >> Me too. >> Uh you're what? >> I was a retired music teacher also. >> Gosh, I like you even more now. Um, and I've been on the board since last year. Um, I ran because I I wanted to help teachers and students. And very quick story, I'm proud of this district because of the people that work in it. That would be staff and students. Uh, was at my
011knee doctor the other day and he he gave me a beautiful testimonial about his daughter. Uh he said they just moved here when he just got out of med school and you know they really wanted to put their children in private school and you build a big fancy house but you know he didn't have a lot of money getting out of med school and they put him in Becky David. They identified that his daughter one daughter couldn't read and they got her in level in two years and he said now she works for the Washington Post and he credited Francis how for doing that. So that made me very proud to be serving this district. >> Yeah. >> And I know there are a lot of other stories like that, the same thing. >> Yeah.
012Great. Thank you. >> I am Ron Harmon. I've been on the board for two and a half years. And what I'm most proud of is the strategic plan that's been developed that's not only focused on the past. Yeah, it's a it's a great district, but it can be greater for and and I'm looking forward to the improvements that that come along so that we can develop and improve. I mean, 70% that 70% of students achieving proficient and levels in all tested areas. That's thousands of kids. That's thousands of kids improved in a year. So, I mean, this strategic plan impacts a lot of kids. I'm looking forward to it. >> Great. Thank you. Yeah. No matter how great we're doing, we can always aspire to do even better. Fantastic. Thank you for sharing all of
013that. So, all of you, it sounds like, are in your first term and um >> not not first year, but yeah, first term. >> First term, right? You have within your first three years. And um you have new leadership uh in your interim superintendent. And so, I think it's going to be really great a great time for us to talk about governance and things like communication. And we'll be asking you today to have conversations about some collective commitments whenever we see leadership changing. It's a wonderful time to revisit what are our operating procedures going to be especially with respect to communicating because communication is one of the most important things that all of us do and so we'll talk about those things in depth. The I have listed up here a standard set of norms
014that we typically use for our sessions. And if you would just I'm not going to read them to you. If you would take a look at them and let me know if these seem like that they're reasonable for us today. >> That third bullet point mirrors Ron's comments almost perfectly. Is that all right? Can we live with those for two hours? Okay. Great. All right. So here are the topics that we would like to address this morning. First, as I mentioned, effective communication within the governance team and then we'll talk a little bit about efficient board meetings and provide you with some best strategies or some typical examples of what those best practices might be. Although many of those will also relate to communication. So those probably could have been combined if we have time
015because I know we're held to two hours. We have a little bit on some governance team relations uh and how that mostly is how does the board engage with the superintendent also about communication and then at the end we'll just take a few minutes to reflect on what we did during our two hours and make some plans for ourselves and for our team moving forward. So three big important concepts that we need to make sure that we fully understand that underlies everything that we're going to talk about when it comes to communication. And the first of these, and we'll talk about each of these more in depth, but the first of them is regarding collective authority. We always have to remember collective authority exists and honor collective authority. We also need to always remember to
016refer our patrons to the correct level of the chain of command. And then also we're going to talk about how do we address our questions as a governance team. When you have questions, and you should have questions, right? You're charged with the governance of this school district. when you have questions, what do you do with that? Who do you go to? And what should you expect in return to receive answers to the questions you have? And so, we'll talk about all three of these starting with collective authority. Now, some of you are almost probably feels like almost brand new since April really wasn't that long ago, right? Collective authority can be a challenging concept for boards of education because typically in most districts you ran by yourself, right, as an individual and you were elected
017by yourself as an individual and you might have had a platform that you campaigned on. But when we come to the table together, now we have to function as a team of seven. And we can only really take action together as a team of seven. And so it can be difficult to bridge that change from being an individual to being one member of a team of seven. And so we always remind school boards of these facts. And in fact, your policy 0340 has the following quotes in them. And and don't feel compelled to write down anything that's on the slides because I'll share those with Mark and Stephen and then they can distribute them to you. But th that policy says in part authority rests with the board in legal session and no individual board
018member has legal authority. And then later in the same policy it the board has established as its policy to support the board once a legal decision has been made by majority vote. So once the board votes on something, we all support that decision. Even if we don't agree with it, we still need to respect the decisions. And collective authority has been upheld by our court system. In 1996, the quote from that case was, "Unless otherwise authorized by the board, individual members are not empowered to act and cannot govern." So it's just very important for us to remember that we need to govern together as a collective body. That can be difficult. It can be difficult for a lot of reasons. Some are, for example, you might not always agree. You probably won't always agree. Maybe,
019okay, this is might just be me and I might be a weirdo, right? But I kind of believe one of the main points of elective representative government is that you're supposed to have robust conversation about important topics to come to consensus about that. and then vote, right? You shouldn't always agree. If you're always agreeing, as they say, somebody probably isn't thinking. And so, you might be in the minority sometimes, which can make it challenging. Also, the next two are the really big ones for most new board members, especially patrons or your voters and your district staff might have the misconception that you as a board member can do things individually. they don't understand collective authority. They might not have even heard the term collective authority. And so it's really important to help them understand that
020concept. It is also challenging to act in a group. It's a lot easier just to make decisions as an individual and just have people do what you say. That's part of the reason that we don't do things that way. Seven heads around the table will make reasonable decisions typically. And then sometimes we just have a lack of teamwork or diplomacy skills which can make negotiating collective authority challenging. So I'm going to ask you to engage in a couple of scenarios today. And so during these scenarios, I'm going to ask you to talk to a shoulder partner for just a couple minutes. I don't I like to keep these short and then we'll share out as a group. So the first one is board member Kevin sees a viral social media post about a student allegedly
021being bullied. Without discussing the situation with the superintendent or informing the board, he posts on his first personal Facebook account. Quote, "This kind of behavior is unacceptable in our schools. I'll be investigating and holding staff accountable." This stops now. All of our examples are drawn from real life. We changed the names and a few of the details to protect the innocent and the guilty, but this is this is drawn on a real situation. So, questions. What governance issues are raised by Kevin's post? How might this affect due process, trust, or public perception? And what role should individual board members play in public controversies? Chat with your neighbor for just a couple of minutes and then uh maybe run. >> I think I think you two are chat. Oh, I thought you two were going to
022be >> What do you think about the chemistry? I will be investigating it definitely on this individual and um makes them sound like they're like rogue and you know not not operating as a collective so I think it's the fix of personal pronouns that are in that statement but also the sentiment behind it they can act individually issue like you What about me? >> And you're not solving. >> You're not. Yeah, you're Sarah for future conversations like this in the next two hours. Are you able to participate by video or do you need to go somewhere? >> Well, it's going to be difficult. I'll be investigible. I really want to hear this. >> Please I just want to make sure that's why I'm with Amy while we're there question you can't be part of the
023talk. Make sense? >> Yeah. I'm covered. I'd like to I mean I like listening and not see for me right now I can totally listen but participating is going to be difficult. >> That makes sense. Um go ahead. Um, mute your mic and we're going to jump to the next part. >> I knew it was going to be >> So, what do you think? >> This is a mess. >> Kevin's got to get it together. >> This is a hot mess. >> Come on. >> Yeah. So, what about what about specifically? What do we think? >> Individual, not collective. >> Individuals can't act alone. Should not act alone on the board. Should have everybody. >> Yeah. And there are a lot of layers to this >> and they they don't have the authority to do
024any of this, >> right? Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The board shouldn't be investigating anything like anything. That's the whole reason you hire these people >> and for a lot of reasons that we'll come to later. Like at the end of the day, the board might be charged with being the impartial authority if for example there were a personnel or disciplinary matter. And you need to be neutral. So when you get involved in investigations, it's hard to maintain neutrality. And even if you can, it's almost impossible to maintain the appearance of neutrality. Right. >> And they're also only hearing one side of the story. They're hearing >> Yeah. There's no due process there. >> Yeah. >> Right. Yeah. Yeah. Lots of things. But this kind of thing we see in other districts a lot. And so
025um >> Okay. >> Yeah. We need to try to avoid these things because there are consequences for violating collective authority. Frustration for everyone including the whole board usually if we have individuals that are acting outside the scope of the collective authority, right? Sometimes the superintendent or the board president might have to intervene and that isn't usually fun for anyone. staff can be it can really have a negative impact on school culture on the district's cult staff culture when board members are out of their lane and acting individually and then really importantly there's a danger that you as a board member isolate yourself from the rest of the board right and it's important to remember on a three-year term you're going to be spending a lot of time with these six other people and you want
026your opinion to be in the mix for consideration. So we all have to work together as a team and work hard not to isolate ourselves. One of the challenges the other challenges we face outside of collective authority is how do we respond when we hear concerns because in my experience not a lot of people come up to board members telling them about all the great things that are happening. Right. Your experience with the doctor is a little bit different. Lots of times what we hear are complaints, right, and concerns. In fact, you'll hear people come up to you and say, "Everyone thinks or the teachers are all frustrated that." And you'll hear those things all the time, especially if you're out at events, district events. And it's really important for schoolboard members to keep in
027mind that each anecdotal story doesn't represent a whole group necessarily. It doesn't represent a whole segment of your stakeholders. And we have to keep in mind what we call volume versus volume. A small number of people, very loud volume is not the same as a volume of a lot a lot of people coming to you with a concern. Anything you do, you know this, even if you've only been here since April, everything you do is going to upset someone. If you gave away free ice cream, somebody would be mad about it, right? And so there's no way you can please everyone. So you're always going to have a small number of loud people who are upset. Boards need to rise above that. Get reliable and representative data from your stakeholders. Figure out what does our
028whole community, how do they feel as a whole about this situation? And that's how you rely on your administrative team to have systems in place to get you the data you need. Surveys, other things like that. They aggregate that data and provide it to you. Scenario number two. Board member Betsy attends a school openhouse and is approached by a parent upset that their child was not selected for the gifted program. After hearing the story, Betsy tells the parent, "That doesn't sound right. I'll talk to the superintendent about it. She emails the superintendent that night asking them to investigate the student's placement and reach out to the parent. So, some questions. Did Betsy overstep her role? What could she have done instead? And how might actions like this impact the superintendent board relationship? That last one's
029really important to discuss. Okay, spend just a couple minutes talking about that. Yes. >> Yeah. Those are the steps backend person doing better than Kevin was way off but trust so that even judgment so like I'm already agreeing You know they feel uncomfortable. >> Yeah. like >> testing. I still think I wonder if they have standards process. I guess you can say reach out to kind of that nature ask >> but the thing is board me with somebody or something but I don't really know. >> I guess that's out of the realm of my understanding. judgement. >> They usually tell you that when they give you the results, email, >> you know, your child's promise. >> Don't overromate. >> Okay. I hear great conversation. What do you think? >> Betsy did overstep her role. >>
030Yeah, I think so. >> Yes. >> Bet's better than Kevin. >> Yeah. Bet's doing good. I mean in all these situations the people are doing what they think is best and I think that's what we always have to keep in mind. People don't do things to be evil generally. >> They want to help. >> They are trying to help, right? And so it's really Betsy is trying to help this parent, but yes, she's overstepped her role. What could she have done instead? told her to talk to the the teacher or I guess the classroom teacher and then if she wants she I'm sure she probably got the results of the testing >> right know do that is that right >> typically yes >> yeah and just tell her to have a conversation with the people
031that were involved in this but >> you know we all think our kids are the smartest but not always the case >> I just think it's always good to establish yeah to push it back to like you know that's really kind of out of the realm of my responsibility. I was like, have you talked to the teacher? I think it's fair to be empathetic and curious, >> but ultimately to direct them back to >> those that command essentially >> shouldn't go to the superintendent. >> Yeah, I would. Yeah, we're going to talk about this later. I would never ever suggest that you say, "Hey, I don't want to talk to you about this or I shouldn't talk to you about this." It's always good to acknowledge how someone's feeling and say, "Oh, I'm so sorry
032that happened to you." I spent a lot of time in my role as an administrator telling people, "I was sorry about things that I had nothing to do with." Right? That's part of what we do in these leadership positions is we help people to feel better by listening to them and letting them know that we're sorry that that happened to them. But yes, then always redirecting them to the appropriate level in the chain of command, right? We need to send people to the place where their problem could actually be solved if it's solvable, right? And oftentimes, most people don't realize this until they're on the board. Often times, we have situations where people skip all of those other levels and go straight to the top. I can't tell you how many times as a superintendent
033I had to say to a board member, "This is the first time I'm hearing this." because they've skipped all the steps and gone straight to you. So, the more that board members can help them to know where to go to have their concern addressed, the better off everyone will be. How about the relationship between the board and the superintendent when some a situation like that happens? >> I think it puts them in a bad position. I mean, first of all, it just makes it first of all, it trains poor behavior. I think you know between the board member and the parent you know to say like just come to me and I'll fix it or I'll send it to whatever like that just bypasses again that whole which then you know undermines the authority of
034every one of those you know those levels. So that's not good. But then also, you know, you don't want to put that on the superintendent then either to be like, you know, our superintendent has a whole district to run and like every individual parents frustration with any particular process or anything like >> Mark can't have, you know, 70,000 kids, you know, >> these people are working 70 hours a week already. Exactly. Right. Well, should the superintendent say this is not my role to handle this situation and tell that person to who to go to if they don't know? >> That is often the case. Right. Red doing redirecting. >> Does the superintendent feel nervous about doing that? >> Does this superintendent? >> Not usually. Right. Yeah. Because we understand the chain of command. Right. And
035it's very common for all administrators. A principal when they receive a complaint of principal's f about a teacher, something happening in a classroom, the principal's first question would always be, "Have you talked to the teacher about that? They understand the chain of command." Good. Yeah, this is great conversation. So, this is really the meat of what we're going to be doing today, which is coming to some decisions together as a group on how we want to operate as a governance team. And so the first question that I have for you, and it's the first question on your note sheet, so there's a spot for you to take notes if you would like, but I want us to have a wider discussion as a group. How are we, as directors going to respond when we receive
036concerns from parents or other community members, either in person or in writing? How are we going to respond? >> Is this for when we get a question directly to us or a message to the whole board? I think it's both, >> right? Yeah, I think it's both. So, for example, if someone is sending written communication to all of you, who's going to respond? Is that going to be your board president? Is that going to be your superintendent? Is it going to be both of them? Additionally, if you need to respond in the moment, so Amy is at a a softball game and somebody comes up and shares a concern, how does Amy respond in the moment? Because again, I would never say just turn your back and walk away. And then lastly, how will that
037concern be shared with district personnel if needed? because sometimes concerns you hear are serious and you do need to make sure that somebody that works here knows about them. So how so what are we going to do as a board? What should be our standard operating procedure? What do you think? >> I like the idea of centralizing responses somehow. Um, I think we all get a lot of emails to the whole board and I don't know if it's a a common practice or a recommended practice either, but I think that people should be acknowledged that they have responded and I think I felt in a weird position to like not wanting to act or respond as an individual because understanding that we are a collective board but also wanting to acknowledge that hey we got
038your email and stuff. So I don't know if we can talk about having like automated responses that come back you know that we'll kick back from the board like if Outlook will do that just to say we received your email you know and figure out what we want to say is like the common like our SLAs's or whatever what is that what do we call that in education world like like when we'll expect to get back with with them you know or how to expect a response if to respect a response I would like to have something like that because I want to leave people hanging. I want to have that empathy to them and acknowledgement, but also >> you don't want to be inappropriate. >> I don't want to be inappropriate or speak on
039again my own individual feeling about something like what was the guy? Kevin. I don't want to be a Kevin. So that's I I would like to be able to have somebody that's going to designate whether it's Steven or whatever. And then also similarly with Mark, so we're not overwhelming Mark with all of our individual questions and things to figure out how in most cases are generally to maybe funnel that somehow. >> Well, and when we get an email and all of us are contacted, what if all seven of us give a different response, >> right? >> Yeah. >> There's no unity there and there's really not a they're not getting a good response. >> Yeah. I think that probably would best practice would be that should be avoided. So I I pretty much you know
040I might talk with Stephen and you know say what do you think and then he you know usually will do the the response for the group. >> Well yeah I mean the tricky thing is though is we can't really discuss amongst ourselves how to respond to that >> because that becomes that becomes an open >> discussion item and all our texts become >> it's unshinable. So I mean the challenge is essentialized responses. I mean the automated responses that yeah I get that on one hand and then the other hand it makes me feel like we we're patronizing them thinking that really oh is somebody going to what if they don't you know so but it's almost like you and there needs to be I hate to do it to you Stephen but it's almost like
041I would leave it to to you to kind of give them >> a response talk to the talk to Mark see how he wants to handle it and let you guys handle it and see how you respond to them because I don't want indiv I'm with Caroli I don't want to do individualized responses but then again we can't have discussions behind the scene about who's going to respond and what do we respond >> if we had a collective response or an automated response though that at least would say something like thank you for emailing the board our process is to have the president of the board review emails and respond within 48 hours or something like that like just to set the expectation that You're probably not going to hear from Ron and Carol and
042Amy and everybody, but you will get a response in >> X number of days or something. >> Yeah, >> just a >> just to take it off of us for not looking like jerks, you know, not responding to people. >> I think it's very reasonable. >> And it might not even be that the automated response says >> Steven will be back in touch. >> Someone will be back in touch because it might be more appropriate for Mark or even a member of the C. It really depends on what the concern is because when we think about that chain of command, it might be a principle that really they need to hear back from if they're concern is related to something at the building level. >> So I think some sort of response whether automated or
043whether it's just Stephen having to copy paste something in each time to make sure that someone Yes. Someone should be acknowledging the concerns >> but not all of them. >> But right >> but we also have to be able to that's part of the education and and training if you will of the district members also to understand that individual board members should not be weighing in separately on these issues because we do act as a collective. So, I really do want to make sure that we're all >> So, we need to educate the public. >> Educating them that don't expect Amy and Carol and Ron the staff and the public. >> So, I'll be interested. This is a part for Susan and for you, John, as well. Um, if I were to respond, I don't
044want them to feel like I'm the only one reading the emails because that's not true. >> And I don't want any other board members to look like, well, Steven's responding, but no one else was. So, uh, what if there was some kind of a statement that said something like the board agreed that, uh, I'm the one while everyone has read this, the board has, uh, designated myself as the current president to respond. That way, everyone is acknowledging you, you're all reading it. You care as much as everybody else cares. >> That's what the automated response does. You know, you've get you've gotten those, right? When you email, it's like an out of office. You get those a lot. kicks back, but then you would still respond, but they would know >> they're going to hear
045from one person or something. >> Yeah. Whether Yeah. Whether it's in the automated or whatever I respond. I just wish I had the language that lets them know that every board member has read it. Yeah. >> They like to respond, but for the sake of clarity, for the sake of solving your problem or not solving a problem obviously, but quicker like we've chosen this method. What what would be language? >> It's not inappropriate for us to give input, right? It >> makes sense, but >> to Stephen Pardon? >> It's not inappropriate for us to give input on this to Steve. >> No, not individually. The concern is is and and part of it I mean, first of all, you've got a crack communications team that probably can help you uh write something pretty cool. But
046the if you guys agree that that's something you want to do, that's really why we're here. But um it is not inappropriate uh for you to weigh in. Um the tough thing is and it part of it part of responses are sometimes educational like the board has not met and made a decision on something like this. This has not been brought to the board. Like you know Stephen can say listen yeah we voted on this last last week. This is this is what we have decided to do. I'll refer you to the superintendent or the appropriate person for more information. Um that's appropriate if the board but almost always um uh or at least the ones that I get calls on aren't the easy ones. That's the easy one, right? Uh the the not easy
047one is the the the thing that really should have gone to the principal or really should have gone uh to an assisted superintendent. Um but of course they leaprogged up to the board. I'm angry about this of the cost of popcorn at the the football game. Um and so if you have an opinion, you you can certainly I mean the whole point of providing the tools so that they can communicate with you is once again this is the ability. It just takes um uh some some practice from your perspective to know we don't individually respond because that that is the path to chaos. Um uh um but we are absorbing what they're saying. If I have an opinion, I can certainly uh voice it to the superintendent or or or the board president. Although I
048would say the price of popcorn is not really something you should be worrying yourself with. And um uh so I I think there's a combination here, right? So a combo of acknowledgement but maybe educational as far as please understand to avoid confusion, we're going to have a person respond to your email. And right now we're we're absorbing it to see who the appropriate person is. >> So I see this in two different ways. One is the initial response. And I didn't come in here thinking about the idea of automated response, but I think there might be some where an automated response has that little bit of uh education as well. This idea of you won't get a response by all seven, but all seven have read it or not. >> Yeah. I mean, we all
049we all receive the message. We're all reading things, but it'll be chaos if we all respond. >> So, to the three, do you guys like the idea of an automated response? >> Depending on what it says. >> Yeah. But but but then it'll be automated response when it hits us individually, too. So if somebody emails just you an automated response will come out too. So now >> I think it's fine. It's like period this is what happens like >> yeah we let me go look at the language but the challenge with that would be is quite honestly I don't have time to be on my email every day >> if if I'm if I'm checking email twice a week. >> Well yeah but that also then that be I mean So, >> so then it
050would go out and you would be covered. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Just about if it's in my mind if it's about board governance or a decision or action of the board, that's that's where your your president the person you all elected to be that would be the the person that responds. um if it's more like a student level issue or something like that >> and I'm on that email or one of these guys are on that email you know you would just trust us that we're you know we're going to interact and and and take over that situation. >> Do you guys have I mean I so I have I saw on your website you have like you can email people individually. Do you have an email for the board? >> Because that would
051make more sense. >> Yeah, I will tell you that point we did. >> Um and there was some desire of the board to remove that. Um you know if this group is not opposed to that um there there is a potential for an email address that is all board of education and that way if that is selected it would just go to all of you. Again it doesn't mean that everybody has to respond. um especially after you develop the protocol. But it is a it is an easier way for the community. >> I would love that. I think the community would appreciate having that. Nobody wants to have to try to memorize everybody's individual. >> Yeah. Cuz I think I think uh people think since they voted for us that they should be having personal
052conversations with us about these things and that's >> not the best route I would think. >> Uh can I ask u on that question? Um, Jennifer Joles, could you uh share if you remember when that was happening, what were some of the advantages or disadvantages that happened by having a a button that emailed the entire board? >> Yeah, I don't know if I know all of them and and Scott over there might have some concerns from a technology perspective, but I know one of the things we heard was, you know, with the um one confusion about who was going to reply, right, because it wasn't directed to an individual. I think now people just email all seven. So, I don't know that that fixed that problem, but that was one problem is who's responding because
053we don't know. I think the other issue was the, you know, the reply all problem with unintentionally creating a potential quorum because, you know, any responses in that thread would go to all seven board members. And so, I think those were the main reasons and and I don't know if there was also a technology piece. Um, I know some districts move away from those types of things just from cyber security issues and those I I don't know all the details, but Scott might have some detail there. Yeah, the only thing that I would weigh in with in addition to that is if there was a desire to have an automated response to something that was sent to all board members, it would be easier to to do that automated response to a collective email than
054it would be to do it to each of their individual accounts. And so uh if that is the desire that would be if it is a desire to have that automated response for those emails then it is then it would be desirable to have a group email available for them to do that with >> and I think a group email would create more transparency. It helps to eliminate another problem which is if somebody is only emailing Carol lead directly. It adds a layer of complexity. If now she has to remember to forward every email to Stephen so that he can reply and then possibly forward it to Mark. you know, it that option if that's what you all decide to do seems like it takes out a little bit of the logistical complexity to responding
055to these kind >> and then everyone knows everyone knows what is happening. >> Yeah, John, I would just add I I think that was one of the concerns was uh just having uh when we did have that all email address would be that all seven board members start to reply. And I think as long as ever if we develop the protocol that that Stephen is the person that's going to reply then you avoid that idea that you know we're doing work um on email like we're we're taking a vote or we're making like if if it's only one person then we avoid that concern and as long as we have a collective commitment from the board that eliminates that possibility and makes that one email address a very viable solution to to I think what
056you all are dealing with right now. more streamlined talk to their common address. >> I I also feel like if we did go with the common email address, we could set that common email address up in such a way that they can't reply. We could make it so that their email addresses will not send to that email address. If we could accomplish that, that would eliminate that fear. >> Who's the they in that sentence? >> Yes. >> The board number >> of all seven. >> Yes. >> What? >> Only you could respond. >> We we would maybe open it up. Yeah. So that that it would be a uniform response. >> Y >> and so you guys all I like the idea collected email button. >> How would people know about the board email? >>
057We would tell people be on the same page as all of our emails already. >> People will still go the another direction and type in all seven of our names, but this just allows for some of those >> to be addressed. We can talk through implementation like I think but I mean I would assume that we've got either like we can set it up to where if anyone emails us forward like we could also presumably put create an auto response for our individual ones that just says please email all the board. I also, you know, thinking about directing them to the appropriate level and if we talk about that automated response, I'm sure Jennifer will have that covered. But to say if this is a student rel related thing, you know, please reach out to
058the teacher, to the principal, whatever, you know, whatever we want to put with that, but still be able to make sure that people are, you know, know that this is the new practice in our individual emails, at least during a transition period, so they don't feel like no one's responding to them. But we know that we talked about this. >> Yeah, it'll take a little while for any new system to be understood and adopted. So I guess the only question that I really want to make sure >> that we answer is >> so then is Stephen tasked with ensuring that the administration knows about concerns so that they can be handled if >> could they automatically go to the superintendent also if it says board then >> could a patron come to me absolutely I
059mean they do every >> day is saying is when It says click the board email the whole board >> that he would automatically get it also. >> Can you be listed? >> Can you also receive those? >> I don't know. But >> I mean >> it does. >> It makes sense to do something like that primarily because you are a volunteer. So let's say you go on vacation. >> You deserve to have some time. I'm right in your way. >> That guy that guy also gets to go on vacation. But it's best that that we not have a system. I mean, you know, your board secretary could also be on it as well. Um, with the understanding that the three of them will um try and figure out who to forward it to to get
060an immediate response and that way if you're on vacation or you're sick or you know that >> we could put the two of us on that, too. I mean, so that we've got a backup between the two of us also. I mean, that's an option. >> I think there's some ways that we haven't really explored like ways that you and I could work better together or >> division of or something like that. >> Yeah. The only reason I bring this up is because, as Susan just mentioned, it's important for these people who do the daily work in the building to be aware of these concerns so they can be handled. What we don't want to have happen is serious concerns be brought to the school district and then them not have the opportunity to address
061those concerns. So, emails to the entire board. um I will respond and there is some kind of an automated message that makes it clear what's going on and then everybody's reading everybody is designated this process that way they know that all seven board members care about each person's comments right um question is um what's it when I respond uh would I respond to them let's say they emailed all of us do I respond uh reply all so that all the board members hear that do I uh CC all the board members so they Oh, this is my response. I >> know what I think that's when So, when I'm responding because that's why the question is if I were to respond, do the do I CC the board? Do I hit reply all? Even if
062it's a message that says I'm sending this to somebody. >> Well, it it depends on how he has it set up because he did mention I mean one of the concerns was that if you hit reply all then um then there could be accidental reply all reply all reply all and now we we're in sunshine law land. um uh if someone emails the board and you respond to all of the board members, that in and of itself is not a meeting. Okay? That's not a discussion between board members. >> Um uh the what gets folks into trouble is then, you know, the board members start chitter chattering um back and forth. And I don't know how much chitter chatter constitutes an official discussion under the sunshine law, but I want a water board or something
063to figure that out, not a school district. >> So, so I can reply all. So, everybody hears the response. The idea is that the board members can't respond to my response. >> Yeah. >> Well, we'll have to see how he has he can set it up. I don't know what kind of magic that he can work but >> a centralized email box or if it's a individual >> but yes creating some kind of transparency so that they can see your response in some way shape or form there's the the button we're trying to create one button goes to everyone >> and then I'm the only one who can respond but some people are still going to email three of us or or or six of us or four of whatever the case is um in
064those cases I can hit reply all so that the person gets a response the board member know this is the response but it's still okay because another board member hasn't commented to my >> so we have to train ourselves >> I would say that our our current practice right now is if President Blair is emailing a patron at the very top of that email he would state that all all board members are being blind carboned on this email um they are then BCCD because then they can't reply to that email um and and And then that way it's transparent that he has replied and what he has replied with the board. Um, and it eliminates the possibility that that somebody then creates that continual reply chain that can go on and on and you know
065>> that that sounds like it works. >> What do we three of you think? Is that Yeah. I What I've heard is and what what I've always assumed because I I don't want to get involved in your day-to-day. If you guys are copied on an email, I assume I assume you guys are handling it. >> So, I'm not going to get involved in your day-to-day operations. And if it's just us that they send it to, I assume that the president should speak for all. Um, not as a collect, but respond. >> Do a response so we don't have multiple responses. We just have one response. That's >> I like the idea of it's one >> just the acknowledgement. >> Then you're you appear unified >> and then that way there's communication if so that we
066don't have me going to >> Mhm. you going >> just >> Yeah, I would Ron I would tell you that we do our very best as a leadership team to respond to emails within 24 hours. You know, I think sometimes where that gets complex is when you see a community patron that emails every 15 minutes because they haven't gotten a response and and you know, there's work that sometimes we're in the middle of that we just can't stop everything that we do. But it is a it has been an expectation in since I've been in this district that all of us do our best job to respond within 24 hours. And it doesn't mean always an answer. It might mean thank you for bringing this to my attention. Let me look into this and I'll
067get back with you shortly, but a response so that it puts somebody at a little bit of ease that they're at least being heard initially. And that's where an automated response can be nice, too, just to set expectations so everybody's like, "Okay, >> I'll wait 48 hours or whatever it is, two business days or whatever." >> Correct. >> Because they did get a response. >> I I appreciate I So what I'm hearing is we'll create a button um so some conversation will be easier. We're going to discuss an automated message for our individual emails as well. Correct. And then whenever there's a response, I will respond as a blind carbon copy. So all the board members know the response. But um yeah, but but that's how everybody knows this is happening and everybody knows that
068every board member cares about the email. This is just how we've designated the process. >> So can we get this in writing so we >> yeah know what's happening. >> Um Jeff has already emailed us a possible. So you >> Oh, just Oh, I apologize. I have when I reply to you, I replied perfect copy everybody. Um but without getting all the details first of all for those seven of you who are watching online or whatever um it's not a surprise that you know every single one of the staff members here are already on top of it on this topic is Jennifer but in a few minutes there'll be another another topic and somebody else here is going to be on top of it too. So, um, not a surprise. >> And we can look
069to on the website then I guess too where it lists the board emails and consider if we just don't want to post those individual emails and just put contact the board, >> here's the email and if people have it, fine, but let's not encourage that. >> I just think the more that we can do to instill that collective governing authority across everybody, the better for all of us. >> Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that's behind this whole conversation, uh, at one of the citizens in our schools, our former superintendent Ken Ruffus made a comment that about 30 to 40% of this time was spent, uh, working with the board. And I just thought, well, that's that's a lot. And if we could find ways just to be more efficient, uh, that allows the superintendent
070to focus on the work of the district a little bit more. And so I'm glad that we're able to have this conversation and uh those who are able to join us online and those who will be watching afterwards just allow us to be more efficient because if we do our job better then everybody else can be >> Mark should not be babysitting the board. >> Um I our goal is to let him have um a better more efficient uh relationship. >> Yeah. Mark's probably happy to do that if he's required to do that but probably would be happier if he didn't have to. >> Yeah. Great. Okay. So effective board strategy number one asking governance level questions because this is all about communication we're talking about and we're going to talk about some specific strategies
071on how to improve our communication and the first thing is about asking governance level questions. the book. As I mentioned earlier, you as a governance team have to have quality information in order to make the important decisions that you make and your superintendent and your superintendent's team is the best are the best people to provide you with the information that you need in order to make those decisions. Where things get muddy is sometimes we wander as a board from governance level concerns into operational concerns. And so we talk a lot about what is a governance level issue and how do we ask a governance level question and we want all board members across the state to be asking questions that get you the information you need to be able to make an informed decision but
072don't start to cross over into the line into the work that you have delegated to your superintendent and your superintendent's team. So we use this visual all the time. Your teachers are the boots on the ground operating in the schools daytoday and your principles are a little bit higher than them. Your superintendent is yet higher than them. And the board needs to be operating way above all of those people. And so we use the phrase all the time, stay in the helicopter, right? You're doing the strategic big picture work way up above. stay in the helicopter and let the boots on the ground run the buildings dayto day. So what is a governance level question? Here's an example. Teacher retention's been on everybody's mind since 2020 and maybe before. A non-governance level question is like
073this. Can we have an award ceremony for teachers who have been in our district 5 years or more? That's a good idea, but it's not a governance level question. And a better question would be, what are some incentives that we are putting into place to encourage teachers to stay in our district? Can you see the difference? The second question demonstrates to the administration, to the parents, to the other members of the community. This is important to us because you're asking the question. We're paying attention to th this. We're holding them accountable for this, but we're not getting into the how is it going to be done. Right. The board decides what is important. You adopt a strategic plan. You adopt goals for the district. It's Mark and his team's job to figure out how to
074meet those goals. Here's another example. Student reading achievement. Shouldn't we train our teachers on the science of reading because I've heard it produces good results? A better question is, what strategies or programs do we have to help our teachers increase reading scores and how do we know they're working? That shows that you're monitoring, but it doesn't direct the uh employees who are at tasked with implementing those changes how they're supposed to do their work. So, let's look at a couple examples. Just thumbs up and thumbs down. Ready? Why isn't the track team getting weight training governance level or? Yep. Nine. Good. What's the eight human resources strategy for securing additional teaching staff? What are the anticipated expenses? Yep. Great. Yes. Please clarify. This isn't a question. I don't know why we're calling it a GLQ,
075but please clarify the evaluation process for the strategic plan. Yep. Very appropriate for you to ask that question. Can we have all our staff undergo sensitivity training to decrease the amount of discipline referrals? Yep, that's a no. When are teachers going to get on board with using artificial intelligence? Yep, that's a no. Good. >> But really, when are they? >> What What programs and practices do we have in place to help teachers improve instruction? And how do we know they're working? >> Okay, you all are batting a thousand, so we don't need to spend any more time on this. You understand them. Good. I'm >> just trying to avoid screen grabs that have us doing it with thumbs up and thumbs down. >> Sorry, not trying to put you in that kind. >> Yeah, there's
076going to be a screen grab all >> establishing communication expectations is the second strategy and it goes handinand with what we were just talking about in responding. You need to have clear protocols in place as a governance team. You need to have a process to have your questions answered as a board member. And you need to be able to share information that employees in the district need to know that you have heard because as I've said twice now, you will hear things that these people need to know. So what's that process going to look like? You should have agreed upon conduits that are used to share information back and forth. And you always have to remember to stay in compliance with policy and law. So imagine your current job, whatever it is you do. And
077now imagine you report to seven different people, all of whom want you to communicate in different ways. Two prefer emails, one wants to talk on the phone, and four are texters, five want immediate responses, and three of those even demand that you respond on the weekend. How would you feel as an employee as you attempted to navigate that situation? So that's Mark potentially. No one no one can effectively serve seven different supervisors. And it's not fair to expect a superintendent to manage seven sets of communication expectations. A lot of them do and maybe Mark would be okay with it, but it's usually not the most efficient way for communications to take place. And so that's why we should talk at least about what a protocol might look like. Here's typical and that gold arrow demonstrates
078where information is exchanged. Typically we see board members shares their questions and information with the board president who then engages with the superintendent who then engages with the cabinet, administration, faculty and staff. Right? So there's no direct engagement between the board members with other members of the staff. It all flows through the superintendent and the reverse. Right now, you can have alternate protocols in place if something's urgent. If you learn of an emergency and Steven's unavailable that sometimes you might need to share information with Mark right away, right? You might email and then carbon copy the board president on the email, for example, or if you all are texters, send a text with both of them on it so that they're fully aware of what's happening. So, let's look at question number two on your
079sheet. What should our governance team communication protocol look like? Which board of education members communicate with the superintendent? How often and for how long? How will the director's questions be asked and answered? How often will the superintendent communicate with the board? and using what methods and what kinds of situations would merit an immediate call or text. What do you think? >> I'll start just by saying I really appreciate the the weekly recap, Mark, that you've been doing. It's super helpful to me at least. Just get a download of like, hey, here's all this stuff we're working on in a less formal but, you know, concise and informative way. And then >> I'm sorry. Is that an email or Fridays? >> On Fridays. Yeah. >> Typically Fridays. Yeah. >> Sometimes it Friday evening gets away. It's
080Saturday. >> But a weekly Yeah. an end of week summary email basically to the board to just say like, "Hey, here's what's going on. Here's where all these things stand." >> That's the how often Will's super dick. >> Yeah. I mean, that for me has been working fine. Obviously, if there are other things that pop up, you know, additional We get additional communication. >> He's focusing on the right things. >> Yeah. I love that. That's been really awesome. And I've told you as much I think. >> Yes. It makes me happy. >> Um and then I don't I'm fine with like just the little flow that you had there too. You know, I think Stephen and I had talked originally too just again so if he's indisposed or I'm in disposed just so we've got
081two people that are kind of understanding. But I think you know you being the primary liaison to >> Mark and then you and I talk a lot just to stay caught up which works for me and then if you're out for some reason then Mark can knows he can come right to me and not you know I won't miss a beat that way. >> Right. Well and and just as you know Mark would be able to talk with Amy St. John somebody else on that side. It helps me out to be able to talk with you and incorporate like some of your thoughts on this. Then the last one like um if you know of an emergency thing that happened >> like with a student or a teacher or >> Yeah. >> anybody in the
082district and you think they need to know this happened. >> So the question I would have for you is what is an emergency >> like a right but because sometimes we a board member I'm not saying any of you might think well anytime an upset parent contacts me that's an emergency. >> Yeah. No, I mean like a physical emergency or something >> or a PR emergency or >> Yeah, >> this is going to happen or this did happen. >> And even then, I would still expect that you we would >> let probably everybody know or minimally at least Stephen and Mark, I would think. >> Yeah. >> Something that would cause a disruption in the district, >> you know, or to a school or something. >> Yep. So Mark, uh, so a couple things are
083on my mind. One, you and I have set up a a weekly meeting where usually in person, but sometimes by phone and I think that works out really well because any board member can say, I have these questions about this topic, this topic, this topic, and I can say, "Thank you so much. I'll bring those with me." >> So that way your every every board member should have equal voice on their concerns. Um, and just efficiency purposes, we have this different process, right? Um, at the same time, I don't want to uh resource guard Mark. So, Mark, what are situations where you would want a board member to talk to you directly or and it's a board member, too. I would imagine one would be if you feel like a board president is resource guarding
084or not listening, right? I mean, if I'm not if the president isn't doing good job on that process, that'd be a good example to >> Yeah. >> to talk, but what other examples would you want a board member to contact you directly? I mean >> by email versus text. >> Again, I would I would say for me the the part that makes a lot of sense would be that if a board member has an individual question um you know and and when you listen to Susan and John, you know, on that we always try to get to governance and there's going to be things that along the way aren't and and and we'll work through those. But it would be just emailing me your question. But I think it's important to carbon Stephen on those
085emails just so he can see um what some of those things are because really um you know the board governs the board. Um the superintendent doesn't govern the board. And so only the board can hold each other to the norms or the practices or the protocols that you all um develop. And so I would say that if there's a a governance level question that you want to ask, ask it. I mean that that's fine. and just carbon Stephen on it. I I certainly am and fine with that. You're going to have things that come up that that you have questions about and that that certainly makes sense to me. Um I think if there's things that you think knowing that Stephen and I are going to have a weekly conversation, if there's things that you
086think that could wait till that meeting, then just email Stephen directly. And but if it's something that you feel like is more pressing, then then do it. on the emergency situation. I would always tell you if you're not sure, then pick up the phone and call. I I would much rather know if you think that there's a potential emergency situation at one of our schools that may happen the next day, I I don't care what time it is, I would rather you pick up the phone. And when I say, you know, even on those emergency situations, you can certainly email, but I for me, a phone call is much much better. You know, I'm not to Ron's point, um, you know, there are times when you're with your family in the evening and I don't
087open my email app, but my phone's always in my pocket and if it rings, I'm going to answer it or if I miss it, I'm going to quickly see that I have a missed call. And so, um, you know, it's hard to determine what is an emergency, but you get a feeling. You you kind of know personally this feels like I need to reach out to somebody. I would always rather you waver on the side of of caution and pick up the phone and call and then we can work around the issue behind uh behind the scenes. But to me, if it's an email and you think it can wait till that weekly meeting, then email Stephen. If it's something that you want like I've got a question, I really want to get this to
088Mark, I would say email it and and carbon Stephen on that email. That way he kind of sees the flow of of what kind what kind of concerns or thoughts are out there as well. If any board member had a question that related to any of the other professionals here, do you want them to follow that same process? Uh let's say they have a question about HR or uh something for Glenn Hancock um our chief academic officer CFO type questions. Actually, not CFO, deputy superintendent of operations. Um do you want them to ask that question that email to them CCing both of us or do you want them to pass it on to me and then I present it to you? Yeah, I I think I would to me the same consistent workflow is probably
089the best one in my mind, unless MSBA has a different uh thought on that. >> Simpler is always better. >> To me, it would if there's a question about something we're doing in academics, um they would they could email me directly, carbon you on it, and you know, my response is going to be, well, let me work with Glenn. And and I've seen examples of the board doing this like that make perfect sense. It's a it's a positive workflow. That way, um the board president's in the no, the superintendent's in the no, and you know, these guys, you know, they might be in the middle of doing something, and they don't feel like, oh my gosh, uh the board just emailed me. I have to drop everything I'm doing and get to this right now.
090And it it provides a little bit of a a buffer. So, as we're because I mean some of this will be a little bit of a transition of just like common practices or just you know because we're not into that flow but as we're you know trying to move into that more streamlined approach if stuff comes up you know and I've got a question or Ron's got a question or Mark or somebody you know and we're like hey we heard this or this or that part Part of it I feel like is also trying to like do that education and that training again about getting us out of people coming to us with the day-to-day kind of operations. I mean so some of that I think we have to just retrain ourselves a little bit
091to redirect again to those appropriate channels on the hierarchy. But while we're transitioning too, is there like is that something that we just say, "Hey," knowing that you'll meet with Mark once a week or something, we just go to you then and just say, "Hey, this came up to me, >> can you put this on your agenda to talk to Mark?" And then you'll decide if it needs to be an agenda item or something, you know, for the next meeting. I mean, is that does that feel >> Yeah, it there are I'll I'll be honest, there are times when I've texted Dr. St. John um directly when I know stuff that's going on because I happen to be privy to construction schedules. I know stuff that's going on on on the ground. I say, "Hey,
092heads up. I >> sure >> right. >> You might want to be checking on this." So I don't necessarily know that you want to be involved in that when I know who it's going to go to and and who >> the internal protocol is always then I make sure that he's aware of a conversation that we're having. So just put both on the email. >> Well I just I text >> Yeah. I just I just text. >> Yeah. So I I again I think the vast majority of things what we're trying to do is develop an efficient process for the vast majority of their communication. I think there's always going to be some one-off things that you're going to have a question about and and and so, you know, I I think what I worry
093about the most is I would never want a board member to directly go to a teacher and ask a question of a teacher that really makes them like, whoa, how do I or even a principal, right? cuz they I think most of the people on executive cabinet certainly, you know, are comfortable enough to cuz cuz we work with you guys on a on a daily basis or on a monthly basis. We we've got a relationship. Um I think that's even can be hard for some of our directors as well because they just don't work as closely with you. So, I think as long as we're functioning around this team of five, I I certainly think that there's going to be situations. There's going to be some one-offs like Ron just identified. And we kind of
094have a a protocol on this team where, you know, they're all going to keep me in the loop. And there are certainly like if somebody came to me with a a finance question or uh you know, a human resource question, please know that what I'm going to do is I'm going to call Lisa Simpkins. I'm going to call Amy St. John say, "Hey, this question came to me. this is probably in your wheelhouse, can you please respond to to uh Director Owens or uh Director Harmon. Um that's how we're gonna follow the same process. Yeah, absolutely. >> So, amongst the five of you anyway, like if we've got just general questions or anything, it's okay. >> Okay. >> I have a delicate question. Um, what who handles it when we realize a board member has
095gone rogue, >> is doing inappropriate things? How should that be handled? >> That's me. So, board president. >> So, we would have conversations. >> So, the superintendent doesn't get involved. >> The superintendent is not >> he doesn't manage the >> boss of the board. >> The board man, >> the board president is the one who will handle it. And if the board president decides that Mark needs to be looped in, the board president will loop. >> Yeah, I would I would say that we also have a board policy that if the superintendent is notified of something that um you know, a practice they don't like it. It's something that the superintendent can address with the board member. If the superintendent is worried that something is uh illegal, um the superintendent is the or excuse me,
096the uh board president also has authority to reach out to the district legal team to engage in services on behalf of the board. And so if there's a question in that frame frame of reference, um Stephen or whoever is the president at whatever time would have a direct pathway to to uh you know legal services to address a situation. >> I think that's a good point though just to reiterate too like the board manages the board. I think we collectively have to like >> take responsibility >> responsibility for our Yeah. as a collective. >> Yeah. And to and one comment that was came up in the middle of that discussion, right? Again, as Mark highlighted, you work with these people on a regular basis. So the level of understanding is different. Always remember being a
097board member is a hat that you put on that you cannot take off. Right? So when you have communications with people at the director level or below, it can create a sense of urgency and maybe even anxiety in those people. So be very mindful of that because I know that nobody on a board wants to make teachers uncomfortable but just but and it's not fair to you, right? because some of you are parents in the district, but there is just this difference that comes with being a board member and that hat just can't ever fully come off. >> John, can I just add like a parallel I always have is if your best friend knows you're very passionate about a subject and and they don't want to be confrontational with you and you ask your
098very best friend a a question and sometimes they're going to tell you what you want to hear and not necessarily what they really believe. And that exists in those structures where whether it's real or not real, where there's a perceived imbalance of power between two people in an organization. Sometimes you're going to get an answer that may not be the real answer, but they really don't know how to answer you and they're afraid to give you the answer that you they really want to share because they don't know what your response is going to be. And so that's why, you know, these these people um you know, directing those questions there is is certainly relevant and important, but to some other people, it it just may put them in a place they're just not comfortable
099to to to answer in the in the way that you really want. >> Yeah. >> And this flows perfectly into our next section, which is about board communicating with the staff or back and forth, right? In fact, you have a regulation on this 4830 GE, and these quotes come from it. All communications to the board from all employees of the district concerning personnel matters or personal complaints shall be fired filed in writing with the superintendent. Right? And all official communications, policies and directives of staff interest and concern will be communicated to staff members through the superintendent. So that picture that we showed earlier with the typical approach, right? With that link, the superintendent is the link between the staff and the board. And so your regulation indicates that communications from the board to your staff
100should go through Mark and communications on matters of personnel and personal complaints should flow upward through the chain to Mark and then he can share them with the board directly. Does that make sense? Okay, so the next question on our sheet is how will the board of education directors respond when they receive concerns from staff members in person or in writing? Because in my experience, probably just as many of the concerns that my board members heard were from staff members as they were from parents, right? So, so what are we going to do? How will the member who received the concern respond in the moment? Right? What will you say? And then with whom will the concern be shared? Because the concern oftentimes need to be shared. And then how will the full board be
101informed on the concern and its outcome if appropriate? Because remember, it's not always appropriate for the board to be informed on every concern. Right? One experience from when I was a teacher, we had a we had a district relations committee. a concern was floated to the board level about how the salt and pepper shakers in the lounges had too much moisture and so they would be clogged up. Right? This is not a governance level concern that my our district's board should have had to deal with. Right? And so even when it was handled finally at the building level, I don't expect that that was floated back up to the board. But this specific situation, what what should we do when we receive concerns from staff? >> I guess go ahead. >> I would I would
102think we forward it to the superintendent. I I see no need to copy the board president or anybody else and Stephen's going to be busy enough as it is. I mean, it's >> Yeah, >> it it's your responsibility to handle the staffing and whatnot. So, I'm leaving your hands for you to handle. And I I just responded to that way to the person and copying you saying um Mr. Delaney has been made aware of this and he will handle it. It's a staffing situation. He'll handle it from here. >> Yep. But does Stephen need to know there's a concern that a board member has been contacted about? I mean I think the you know if it's a again to get back to the is it in the weeds kind of thing or is it a
103governance thing I mean if it's uh you know we don't uh we want you to look at this situation about how FMLA was applied to an individual employee that would not be something Steven would need to to be in right um if it's uh an email about we're concerned about this entire benefit structure which might be a a more global thing or something along those lines. I don't think there's a clear answer, but I think you'll kind of know when you think this is something I think I just send to the superintendent and it it will never hurt to carve in Steven if you want to. I'm sure he's fine with that, but um but again, um on the flip side, I I I hear Stephen say quite frequently, we don't we don't want to
104overwhelm your exact team. I also don't want to overwhelm you guys with with things. So, um, you know, I think it's certainly fine just to forward it to me and and we'll if it's something I need to circle back to Stephen with. That same protocol applies. I apply it to our our weekly meeting and I I share some things with him so that he's aware. >> I would say if it takes you 30 seconds to wonder, should I carbon copy Stephen or not? It only takes two seconds to carbon copy me, just carbon copy. >> It feels like that. I like that uh the graphic of the the pyramid, you know, with the top block. So, we can just be thinking like, is this a top block problem? And if it's not, then yeah, I
105just I would do the same, Ron. I would just email or forward it to him. Copy Mark and be like, here you go. They'll handle that. Mhm. >> Not >> that's a good a good example though because I know that kind of stuff happens too where people just don't know also and they'll just come directly to us and it's like that's not a top block problem. Thanks for >> we'll get you get you on the right path. >> So we're okay with that acknowledging and letting them know that it the concern is going to be passed along sharing it with Mark and then if it's governance level also including Stephen on that. Is that that's straightforward? >> Yep. That works for me. >> Okay, great. Okay, Susan, you're up. >> All right, little bit of
106sunshine for the day. I'm Susan Goldhammer. I'm one of the attorneys at the Missouri School Boards Association, and I'm kind of like tonto for John tonight. Um, so I'm just a little sidekick. Um, uh, but we do want to always, uh, reiterate the sunshine law. This is and part of it is is I think um uh the sunshine law is counterintuitive sometimes to uh how we operate in the rest of our lives. Um uh we do group texts all the time in the rest of our lives, group emails on the rest of our lives and we have to kind of put the brakes on that uh when we are a school board. That makes it complicated particularly because you guys are a very new board. It's easy to kind of just kick back on what's
107comfortable to us and forget about the Sunshine Law. So, um, uh, remember the Sunshine Law. And here are a few points to remember. Records created by more members are subject to records requests. Okay. Um, the district custodian of records must have access to records to respond to those requests. Ensure you don't accidentally initiate an an illegal meeting by discussing public business or making board decisions outside of a posted accessible public meeting. And we're going to talk about that a little bit more. And confirm that closed session discussion action items are permitted by law and still occur in appropriately posted meetings. Okay. So this is uh actual language of the sunshine law and uh it's it's the broad policy statement. this every lawsuit um that involves the sunshine law quotes this um uh because uh it
108just sets out the policy and the purpose and when in doubt um so it's the public policy of this state that meetings, records, votes, actions and deliberations of public governmental bodies and the school board is a public governmental body be open to the public unless otherwise provided by the law and the sunshine law shall be liberally screwed construed and their exceptions strictly construed to promote this public policy. So, in in other words, when in doubt, it's open. Okay? That's how the law leans. When in doubt, it is open. Um, and uh that's why Jane worries about you guys a lot. No, I I'm not saying that, but that that's I I do a lot of work with my our board secretaries and and they are uh a valuable resource and uh they do a lot
109of sort of off-the-cuff sunshine law training uh to board me bubbers. Um so what is the sunshine law? I mean what is the requirements? I can give you a book if you want. You can read all about it. Um the basics of what is required under a sunshine law is that you have to have make your discussions in meetings and you have to post notice to the public of both open and closed meetings. You have to allow the public to attend your open session school board meetings. You have to take and keep minutes of the school board meetings and you have to give the public access to open district records. Of course, the big question is what is a meeting? So, let's talk a little bit. Let's use a little bit of a um scenario
110here. The superintendent sends an email out to all board members detailing the bids received for repairing the parking lot. Board member Sam hits reply all and asks the superintendent if the board should restructure the project because the bids came in high. Is this acceptable? Why or why not? So quickly with your shoulder partner chat chat a little bit on this. Should we do thumbs up, thumbs down? >> No. Chat a little bit. Chat a little supposed to be supposed to go down, right? question. >> Rumor has it we don't want to all be up >> discussion question versus you know what they discuss. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So what do we think? What do you think? But >> I think that's not acceptable. >> Okay. Why is it not acceptable? >> It's a discussion question
111about the process. So it feels like that's not just a clarifying anything. >> If they just ask the superintendent, >> but they're asking everybody. >> Oh, but it's more efficient. What if everybody has the same question? >> Then that's open session discussion item right around to discuss the bids. >> I mean, you're discussing finance, you're discussing operations, you're discussing, >> you're discussing business. >> And why is that bad? Well, because we didn't provide public notice. >> Nobody's taking notes. Nobody's recording the meetings. >> That's right. So, you're concern is is that this could become an accidental illegal meeting. >> Uh, which is indeed the concern here. Right. So, I it it's it's very easy because this is how I operate in my world. I'm CCNing and BCing all the time. Um, uh, because uh, I'm
112trying it's it's great communication. I mean I actually lived in this world before email and I don't know how I did that. Um uh so the but your concern is by CCing everybody um you know the message to the superintendent out is that a meeting? >> No no it's a communication to everybody. It is a public record but it's coming from the superintendents. I mean we all know that that's open stuff. Um, when Sam responds um uh to and hits reply all, is that a meeting? >> Well, it >> could be. >> Is that a discussion? >> No. >> And see, I don't know the answer to this, so I'm not going to even pretend. Okay. So, we haven't had a court case yet. >> Like, we don't know how many back and forth. I
113mean, what is a discussion? If you say something and I say something, is that a discussion? What is that? >> It opens the door, though. >> It opens the door for sure. And uh and so and that it gives Jane gray hair. So they all my board secretaries I shouldn't pick on Jane. It gives gives them gray hair. We have entire sessions on things like this. Okay. Um on on the response of it. And so because you're on a board, if you have a question to something the superintendent gives you, you send it to the superintendent. Susan, I would say my concern with that too is we've have followed a bid process and this because we don't like the bids. This seems to behind the scenes undermine a process that we're supposed to follow. if
114if this would be more of a topic at open session during a board meeting to say we've received all the bids. Um we don't I don't recommend that we move forward with these like that's where that conversation should unfold, not via an email behind the scenes. >> Exactly. Exactly. So that's a good point as well. All right. But if you have a question, you send it to him and he might say, "Well, that that's a discussion that we all need to have. We'll put it on the agenda." Okay? If a lot of times our superintendent, if they send something out and they get a lot of questions back, they will then send another communication out saying, "I'm I'm hearing, you know, maybe what I sent out wasn't clear enough or I forgot to include or
115someone's at I've had received some really good questions. I want the rest of the board to get all the information um on these really good questions. But please remember and I have uh some great superintendents. I've got some great folks that actually just put on the bottom of every email do not hit reply all. Um uh if you have a question, please feel free to give me a call. And that's the tough thing when we do our training for our new board members. I don't want you to be like I had a board I had a board member that was like that's it. I'm blocking you all. Um cuz I don't want to accidentally violate sunshine. I'm like that's not healthy either. Okay. Um uh but let's learn the rules um and let's get a
116process uh together um on that. So which of the following are subject to the requirements of the sunshine law? So if you want you can do a thumbs up or thumbs down. You guys seem to be grouping on that. Board members personal notes taken during a meeting. >> I was waiting the question. >> All right. Okay. Okay. I was waiting on you. That's correct. So your your own personal notes or your own personal notes. Okay. Um, a board member's email from their Gmail account to the superintendent's assistant. >> Yes. Yes. It's important that any email that the district has is subject to the central law. Some are closed and some are open and we have to sort through those. Um but uh once it hits um and that members of our public need to kind
117of know this too um because uh you know emails that they send can also be sunshine. Um although obviously uh we have the sunshine law we close things. So if it has to do with like a personal student >> but we're not supposed to use our personal accounts to do that. >> Um it's not advisable but I know some districts do. I mean, I have every district, not every district, most of my districts provide board members their individual emails. A lot of my board members are not really good at checking their their districts ones and they, you know, they have uh it's difficult for them to to develop their personal practice, but um it is not illegal for you to use your Gmail. Um but if you know, we're to be subpoenaed or something, a
118lot of people just want to kind of keep their um board service separate from their personal stuff. Um, and this is a convenient way uh to do that. Draft copies of open session minutes. >> Draft copies. >> What's a draft copy? >> Hasn't been finalized yet. >> It's not signed by yet. >> Hasn't been final. >> No. Hasn't been signed >> through yet. Through. Yeah. Okay. This is actually open under the sunshine. It is open. I know. So, and so if if Jane gets requests for that, um what she will plaster all over it uh draft um unapproved, you know, not approved yet or something like that. Uh just to make it clear, but um anything that is contained in writing >> and at the district is fair game under the sunshine law with of
119course the exceptions the and those exceptions keep growing. A board member's emails using the district provided email address. You got it. You got it. A text between two board members regarding school district business. >> No. >> Is that a meeting? >> Uh, it it's actually no. And we're going to talk about that here in a second. >> I feel like it is going back to that though. >> Let's go back. >> Yeah. What if that that isn't but be a board member's email using my personal account to the superintendent? I get why that's >> Yeah, assistant. So, I get why that would be sunshineable. What about we have personal cell phones? You guys don't give us cell phones, but we we're sending we'll send a text to Is that sunshine? you texted her if do
120you have a district provided telephone that um if you do you have a district uh provided cell phone? >> No, it's personal. So the uh if you had used your personal device to communicate to the district now the district has that email. So that's the difference between B. But what E is is you've got you're texting her. >> No, I I I get that. But my concern would be with that if I'm texting and all of a sudden my cell phone then becomes a record. I have to turn this in or something for somebody to double check my text. >> I mean that could create a incredible boomle in my life. >> This is so let's go to this little chart that you all should have a copy of. Okay. >> In 200 five, uh,
121the legislature changed state statute and the the media was really a big, um, that was really a time when we were starting to see more cell phones, more um, you know, a lot more electronic devices and there was a concern by the media that there were all kinds of illegal meetings happen happening, discussion of public business with quorum of the board. um and it it wasn't focused at school boards necessarily, but all governmental entities. But the concern was that hey, wait a minute. Um whereas you used to have to actually be physically together, now we've all got these tools and devices and um although we know that we can issue a Sunshine Law request to the to the school district. Um uh I can't issue a Sunshine Law request for your cell phone. And if
122you're conducting illegal meetings, then how is the how is the public supposed to make sure that's not going down? And so um they actually changed the sunshine law. And uh so uh we do a a lot of training on this um uh dealing with electronic messages and when can you send them and when can you not send them. You can always send messages uh to the superintendent and the staff. Okay. But the question is, is a board member or member of a committee appointed by or at the direction of a board sending the email? And I used email, but this applies to texts as well. Okay. Um, if the answer is uh no, then that's not a problem because these rules just apply to the governing board. Okay. But if it is, if you're if
123you are subject to the sunshine law, is the message being sent three or more board members or enough committee members so that a quorum is involved, including the sender? Okay. So, two texts between two, not a problem. Okay. Um, if you're texting three other people, um, you can do that. Okay. Uh, you can send the message, but that is actually a public record and you are required to either be using a district, you know, so if it's an email, using your district email because that is subject to the sunshine law. Um, or you have to CC the custodian of records. Who's the custodian of records in your district? >> Jane. >> Um, and so you would need to CC Jane on that message. Okay. And then obviously if it's in response, so it starts looking
124like a discussion, then you just you got to stop because that's an illegal meeting. Okay. Um, so you got to be careful about the texts. If you are going to be doing it, you need to CC Jane. And the reason for that is if there is a sunshine law um uh request like I think there's you know I think there's been this discussion um and we don't know when or how that happened then they're going to ask Jane Jane's going to have the communication. Okay. Um uh I there have been situations where you know the uh uh even the attorney general has said well I think this entity is is illegally you know they're texting each other and they have subpoenaed uh records um before but that takes a lawsuit. Um and so uh that
125is very very rare um that that does happen. And so that's why it's really important for board members, you know, the way to make sure that you don't get subpoenaed is to make sure that you are doing your discussing in a board meeting, okay, and you're doing your communication using the tools that the district provided you. That's one of the reasons why the district has provided you those tools, um is so that that is open um and you can separate your personal life from uh the board business likes. >> Yes. So if Stephen sends us all an a text, >> but it's about it'sformational, you know, like it's the meetings at 6:00 or that's you don't he doesn't need to let James >> I don't personally think that is I don't think that's public business.
126I think that's just kind of like you know we're going to we're going to have a meeting. But I know that a lot of board presidents do. Okay. Um just to be because you you you don't want people asking questions like I saw you texting them. Why did Okay. where I was texting them just reminding them that the meeting was at 6:00 instead of 7 tonight. Um, and that's not really a discussion of public business. Um, that's a reminder of a time of a meeting. Um, uh, that's not actual business. Um, uh, but I would argue that till I die. >> So, if people respond, oh, I thought it was at 7. >> It's fine. It's still I think it's still in that same. You're not discussing, you know, now if you start getting into
127the agenda, that's a problem. So if he texts us about the agenda that's he needs to >> let Jane know. >> Yes. Yes. So his job is hard. Let us all agree. >> He needs to know all the rules. >> His chart is difficult. Okay. So let's do this one. Which of the following um are subject to the requirements of the sunshine law. So meeting of four board members to discuss public business. >> That's the pure definition of of a meeting. Right. And now keep in mind I I've had like you know awful scenario superintendent says hey board members come in let me fill you in and they start chitter chattering in the office. It's easy to accidentally have a board meeting. So you got to be careful about that. And I just so that
128you know because everybody thinks MSBA is the state and so I get calls from parents and community members all the time going I know what's really going on there and making all those decisions in the parking lot after the meeting because I saw them all standing out there you know. Okay. So just be mindful of that. All committees involving school employees in the school district to discuss district operations. >> no no. So uh a the sunshine law only applies to committees created by or at the direction of the board to dis discuss policy policy issue or the expenditures of public funds. >> That was my assumption. >> Um and to provide information to the superintendent or or the board. So school districts run on committees. Um okay. So we uh there's committees at all levels
129on all kinds of things. Um, but the upper level committees, and this is probably the area that most of my districts struggle with the most, is those two need to be posted and we need to have agendas and we need to have minutes. And so sometimes identifying those committees is half the battle. Um, committees created by or at the direction of the board to discuss. There we go. I just I gave it away. Yeah, that that would be the one. That would be the one. Um, booster club meetings where the school election is discussed. No. Just checking. Just checking. Yeah, that's a no. That's a no. And now I have board members like what happens if you're all a member of the booster club because y'all are joiners, right? So you're in everything. Um so
130you're at the booster club. Well, as long as you're discussing booster business, you know, uh are you there in your capacity as a board member? Well, yeah. Four board members show up and you're there to discuss the election or why the booster club needs to help the board pass this, then that would be a meeting. Um uh if it uh but um if it's really you guys are members of the booster club um and of course the booster club's going to be talking about school stuff because that's what booster clubs do, right? Text conversations between a quorum of the board about public business. So of course we just covered that one. That one's an easy one. Okay. Sam's upset with the superintendent's treatment of a principal and text board member Sally and Shawn about her
131concerns. Is Sam's text a record that needs to that we need to send to the custodian of records? And is it a meeting? >> No. And no. Okay. Very good. Very good. Neither one. Why is it not a record? >> It's only three people. >> Three people. That's right. That's right. And why is it not a meeting? >> Well, three people and it's not a discussion. At least not at this point in time. Board member Shawn is outraged about what Sam has shared and emails the board president to request that the issue is put on the agenda for the next meeting. He CC's the rest of the board. >> So, is it a record? >> Yes. Um, a meeting? >> Not yet. Not yet. Okay. After receiving Shawn's email, board member Sally hits reply all
132and weighs in. She agrees with Shawn that there needs to be an agenda item. shares that she's been the recipient of such behavior and encourages the board to consider termination. >> Is this in a record? >> Yes. Is this a meeting? >> It's certainly looking a lot closer to it. Now, we're really getting into the dirty here. Um, right. So, this is this is definitely a discussion this time. So, what do you say? Let's say you're CCed on this. What do you do? >> Shut it down. >> We should shut down the conversation. >> Not respond. maybe save it for the meeting or I am empowering all of you because it is so easy to accidentally violate. Okay? Because like I said, all other areas of our lives, we can chitter chatter all day long
133in our board member lives. We can't. It's I'm empowering all of you to just say, "I'm concerned about the sunshine law. Let's save it for the board meeting." Okay? Um I think that's everyone's responsibility, not just the board president's responsibility to speak up and say, "I am concerned about the sunshine law." Um, let's uh shut this down. Oh, by the way, have we CC Jane? Um, uh, >> you can kind of see by her picture that she's inappropriate. >> There you go. Yep. >> Okay, Stephen, we're closing in on two hours. Keep going. >> We have a quick >> Yeah, I was going to say take a break at >> I need to stand comfort break. >> Do you want to take a break now? >> Can we do whatever appropriate you're good though? I'd
134love John to continue and finish our protocols initially and then and that way we have collective commitments from this group. >> Yeah, there are a couple of activities that we could just skip that aren't >> as I make sure we we maintain enough time to talk about the rest of the agenda. >> Absolutely. >> All right. So, does anybody want to take a uh environmental break? Is that the >> idea? Five minutes if to me. just had Scott. How many people are watching us online? >> And can they all hear because I know you have microphones? >> Yes, they can hear. >> So, we shouldn't even worry about >> this. >> It's It's not as critical as it would be in a longer, you know, when we have the full. >> All right. Can everybody
135hear hear? Okay, guys. Want to make sure if we use this if we have to. Sometimes Ron's a little hard to hear. >> Sorry, Ron. >> So, Ronnie, I get a little louder. It's not the first time I've heard that. >> Okay, so we're back. John, thank you for returning. >> Yeah, sure thing. So, let's continue. Just a couple more topics to address um in our session this morning. So, we've been talking about some effective board strategies. We're going to talk now about strategies that can help ensure that your meetings are as efficient as possible. And these again have a lot to do with communication because as I said at the beginning, communication pretty much drives all of the work that we do as a governance team. So the next topic for us to um
136address is managing agenda item requests because this is common with respect to school districts. How do we determine what goes on the agenda? How uh and what process are we going to use to get agenda items added for our meetings? It's always best if you have a protocol for establishing um requests from board members to add items to the agenda. And you should follow your district policy when creating the agenda. And then you might need to decide together as a board if an issue should be addressed at a future meeting. That's the part where this starts to get a little more complicated, right? Because the typical process, well, let's do the scenario first. During casual conversation at a community event, a teacher tells you, board member, that things went horrible, horribly during her recent principal
137observation, and she starts crying and tells you the observation process used by the district is unfair to console her. You promise that you will put it on the agenda for the next board meeting. So, what are some positive aspects of this exchange between people and what are some potential concerns with this exchange? And then what are some other ways a board member could respond to situations like these? Talk with your shoulder partner for just a moment about that. >> Promise, right? That's good. >> But yeah, it's not even teacher. >> One time I was being >> escalated to district level >> and I've got the principal in here. That's my lesson plan. But if she's not comfortable, >> so I just had to switch gears and do a different lesson plan. >> No, that's right.
138>> And then he felt sorry for me. He got me over. >> Oh, really? >> I guess. And the concern will not a lot a lot but >> the concern is that some more seasoned teacher that could help her. >> Thank you for telling us. >> That's overstepping right there. Make sure to talk to your or your >> Yeah. >> All right. It kind of sounds like >> what do we think? >> What's good about physical teach? year or something. >> What's good? >> There's empathy. Action orientation. >> Yeah. Willingness to talk. Yeah. >> Felt comfortable to talk. >> The board members during the event. >> The wrong thing to talk about. >> Yeah, that's a good point, too. >> Sorry. >> Yeah. It's always better again to listen, right? And I would never recommend
139that you not listen to people. It's always better. People need to be heard when they have concerns. So, that's great. How about some potential concerns with this exchange? >> Promising to put it on the agenda. >> Yeah. And also that's not again a top block issue. >> That's not an agenda. >> That's really have you talked to the superintendent or do you feel comfortable contacting the superintendent or have you talked to the principal or like >> I know we talked a little bit about sometimes there are concerns with retaliation and everything. So like that could be a sensitive issue with the trans but >> but they they all use the same observation process. It's >> not anything unusual. >> Great. Yeah. First thing I would say is we always discourage board members from making promises
140to anyone because again due to collective authority no individual board member ha has the ability to make sure those promises actually come true. And so you might be setting yourself up for failure by making promises to people, right? And you also even need to just be careful about that because sometimes just being empathetic might be perceived as you promising. So you have to be very clear about what you will and will or can and cannot do as an individual board member. Great. Yeah. You know, retaliation is a topic that comes up from time to time. I always like to remind people it's against the law to retaliate against an employee for sharing a concern. And so, so that shouldn't be what drives their behavior, but that again, human nature is what it is. And if
141they aren't comfortable going to their principal, they should at least be talking to someone higher when they have a concern about something like a process for evaluation. And this could conceivably become a governance level issue because policy drives your evaluation process, right? And so, but all of that needs to flow through him, right? And again, we're talking about that chain of command and we don't sidestep the cabinet on an important issue like this. The conversation has to take place here before it comes to the board. Great. >> Is it is it okay to give them some advice like getting some help from other teachers or um you know what I'm saying to help them through this observation can be very, you know, stressful. It is in my opinion fine to be an empathetic and helpful
142human being. >> I could tell how I had one go really wrong once. >> Yeah. I mean, is that I mean, just >> Well, if you've lived in that world, so you're you are a little bit of an exception because most board members aren't former teachers and so they haven't been through that process of >> do that and try to help >> just be careful >> that you aren't giving the impression that you're going to somehow take care of things for them. Yeah. >> All right. So a typical process for adding things to the agenda does not look like the board member makes a promise to someone and then it's on the agenda. Instead, the typical process is the board member makes a request and that request could be depending on your protocol to the
143board president to the superintendent or both. Then typically the board president and the superintendent review and discuss each request and make a determination as to whether or not it's appropriate to be added to the agenda because some topics aren't appropriate. Right? For example, there are personnel matters that we should not discuss in an open session necessarily. Right? it might not be prudent to do that because there might be confidential information involved or student matters. And so there has to be a discussion about if we add this to the agenda, where's the appropriate place? Is it appropriate at all? And then sometimes the superintendent and the board president have to decide, you know, we between the two of us can't come up with the answer for this and maybe we need to present it to the
144full board. And the full board reviews the request and then makes a determination about whether or not to add it to the agenda for a future meeting, not usually that meeting because typically, as we know, we need to post the agenda items at least 24 hours in advance. So member of the public members of the public could attend if they want. >> What would that process look like? So let's say Carol Lee wanted to add something to the board uh agenda. She shares it with me. I'm talking with Mark. Some things are like an obvious yes. Some things are it's not a board agenda item at all because it's just not appropriate for an open board session. But that third category where we talk to the other board members and ask them what they are
145thinking. What does that process look like? Is it uh the board president just contacts everyone and says here's what's being suggested and then we get a chance to hear feedback that way or is there another mechanism that you would recommend? >> I'm going to let the lawyer talk about this. >> So the sunshine law um uh if the sunshine law includes telephone polls um where the intent is to avoid a a vote in the public. And so one I'm sort of like when in doubt put it on the agenda and the board can will tell you then whether they're interested or not. Um one but I I don't recommend that. Some sometimes I'll have a board president send an email out to the rest of the board and say um you know so and so
146would like this item put on the agenda unless message me separately. If you if you have a concern, please pick up the phone and let me know right now. And that way it's just information to all individual conversation. So not a group conversation. Um uh and but it's you making a decision. Now come come to me and tell me if that's not it's not a vote. Um uh but uh because sometimes you're just going to have to guess. Okay. You're like you're not going to get complete consensus. There's no way to have the meeting before the meeting to decide what we're going to talk about at the meeting. um uh that's completely inefficient and so sometimes you got to wing it. Um and sometimes you have to let the rest of the board know, you
147know, okay, so this agenda is going to be uh item's going to be on the agenda and if you have any concerns, just contact me and I'll share my reasoning. >> Um we've had an issue with uh somebody during their comments at the end of a meeting trying to put something on the agenda for the next meeting. >> I've had districts do that. I don't think that's bad, illegal, or wrong. Um, it unfortunately it I think some people some of my districts it's been misused. Okay. As you can't discuss the agenda item, but if a group has, you know, if somebody wants something on the agenda, that's one way to say um then just say I I make a motion that we put this on the agenda. If they don't get a second, >> um
148uh then you never vote on it. Um, and you know, it is I do have some districts that that is a practice and that way the board can decide what we're going to talk about next month. Um, uh, I've had some folks misuse it, like, you know, I want to get you on the record about some hot topic. And so, um, uh, but that is one way to do it. it. I don't like that method because a lot of the things that board members want on the agenda quite honestly can be resolved even before the meeting much quicker. You know, like it's it's going to be much quicker if you've got a concern voting now to put it on an agenda weeks later. Um, a lot of those kind of one-off issues can actually be
149researched and resolved long before that meeting actually shows up. And so that's part of the process that whether we're trying to figure out I love the top block. Is this a top block issue? Um and sometimes the discussion between uh Stephen and the superintendent's going to be you know maybe we need more information. Maybe we need to give the staff a a stab at at tackling this and then if it does rise up to a lot top block level we'll put it on the agenda then. Um uh so there are some things that happen go down that way. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, Susan, do >> does it represent a legal concern if you at the end of a meeting have someone make a motion to add something to the next agenda even though that
150conversation is not on the agenda for the current meeting itself? Should they is it better for them to have an agenda item that says talk about the next meeting or is it okay to just make motions and take action on what will be on the next meeting even though that action wasn't listed on this meeting's agenda. >> So it really comes down to uh the discussion bit. Okay. So you have to under the sunshine law provide a tenative agenda reasonably calculated to advise the public of the matters to be considered. There is an argument. So that the short answer is I don't know for sure. Okay. And so this is just lawyer guessing. I mean that's really what lawyers do. We're professional guessers, right? So if there isn't a court case exactly on this uh
151um then the question is um is this matters to be considered. It would be better certainly because the question is is this an issue that you have discussed? Okay. Well, if it's just an up or down vote on should we put this in the essentially I want to discuss this next month up or down vote I would argue that's not a discussion okay but I do understand the concern okay that you know first of all the rest of the board nobody's you know can someone say well I didn't receive notice can somebody blindside the entire board yes um is this good board practice the only times times the districts that I have had where this usually goes down is when there is actually not a very good working relationship with the board president. Okay. Um
152and I have had situations where um boards unfortunately uh that just you know there was frustration because people felt like issues ought to be considered and they weren't. Okay. At a very variety level. I just I don't feel like that's your board. I hope that's not your board. >> So, if I could u speak a couple of different parts of that. Um part of it would be having a clear protocol that people can expect even board members would help protect that from happening in a board meeting because they would have been heard some kind of protocol would have been discussed um along the way. So, I think that's kind of part of it all. One of my concerns would be at the end of the board meeting if any board member and it's not just
153one multiple board members have uh tried to add something to an agenda pleading that the advice we received was accurate that that's okay time to do so. Um the problem is if one person makes a motion and somebody else seconds it now you have a full-blown Robert's rules of order like train that's moving and if you have a motion in a second now you would have to discuss like a vote on do you add it to the agenda. >> That's really where the problem is. would need to be a straight up or down. And like I and like I said, it's not >> good boardsmanship. >> Okay. So, good boardsmanship is we work with our board president and we get an agenda and good board presidents make sure that agendas include the majority and the
154minority um uh agenda items. Um um but not uh both things can be misused both ways. All right. And so it would be important that if the board operates in this way um that they understand there won't be a discussion. It's an up or down vote. And quite honestly I discourage the practice um uh because I would rather that we have robust conversation with our board president and that we weed out things um and that we avoid these kinds of unusual surprises. So, and for my benefit, uh, we have the ideal and I that it helps. It's good for us to know and maybe identify the protocol. So, there's opportunity. But if it were to be presented in a motion in a second, I would be responsible to make sure there's no discussion >> on
155it. It's just an up or down. >> Say, guys, this wasn't on the agenda. >> We can't discuss this agenda item. This is purely a decision on whether or not we are going to include it in the next board. But we but we can't have a discussion on should we include it in the next board meeting. It was just up or down. >> So that helps me out to know because that's what I was scared of to be honest multiple times is because I hear a motion and now there's a second now we're discussing something that wasn't on the agenda which is not fair to the public or other things. But this >> and to be and to be fair I I imagine if you talk to five different different lawyers it'd be half and
156half as far as is this legal or not at the end. Okay. So, um I know that there are some attorneys that would say that listen, it wasn't on the agenda. You're walk you're playing with fire. >> Um I I am of the opinion as long as there isn't a discussion, you just make the decision and the actual discussion is going to take place at the next meeting. >> That that's possible. You I do want to honor uh we have not only uh director Oli, we also have director Pushkar who has joined us as well. Um, Director Oki wanted to share something and um, director Pushkar if you wanted to say something just indicate it. I'll make sure you have a chance. So, and >> go for it. So would it would it make sense
157because I feel like So I feel like when meetings when board meetings happen, things move very quickly and we do our due diligence beforehand to research and go over the things that are in the agenda and work through them. And sometimes in that process, we find that there's issues that it's definitely too late to add to that agenda for that particular meeting, but it feels like um there's a need for some urgency to get that discussed. Could we modify our um uh board meeting like structure so that instead of having like comments at the end of the meeting, we have a space for new business items where we can just have that space there so that it doesn't feel like we're making a foul play. I might need more information like remember that the law
158requires that you give the public notice of matters to be discussed. So the umbrella agenda items like new business without any more information is not going to help in the sunshine law realm. Okay? Although I know I'm I'm here to tell you a lot of districts do that or they have these spaces in the meeting where it's almost a free-for-all. Um uh but uh remember that the sunshine law requires that you have to provide a tenative agenda reasonably calculated to advise them the public of the matters to be considered and so um just a new business alone wouldn't do it if I understood your question correctly. >> Yeah. Well, you know, and let me maybe rephrase to clarify like our our like our structure of an open board meeting as we work our way kind
159of down the list. You know, we have like the pledge of allegiance and then we have like the um approval of the minutes and then we have like the consent agenda and then we go into the topics that are designed for that meeting, the approved agenda topics. And then what we have at the end of it is this comments area. And the comments area feels very gray and blurry because it's like what are we supposed to say there? What could we say there? And where could we and and for the sake of uh for the sake of you know like I I want to say transparency although I feel like that word has been abused but I want to say like I I want the public to know that we are wanting to discuss issues
160that have not like been communicating. So like can we have a space in instead of instead of comments which to me feels vague that where it says like new business items NBIS where we can then say any NBI from the board you know yes no I prop or I propose to add you know an agenda item for next meeting I I second that okay fine that's great we'll get it on the agenda for the next meeting and then we have that time for that month to prepare whatever our rationale is for the discussion for the next month. And so I think what I'm saying is the comments part of our structure for our meetings is very gray and um vague. And so I'm wondering and and and the reason I'm saying this is not because
161I can't talk to Stephen or Mark to clarify things, but things do come up at the very last minute. And it's um I feel like the public deserves to also know that we are um listening and considering and they can look forward to that conversation in the next board meeting. Does that make sense? >> Yeah, I I appreciate that. I I think part of it is the same rules will apply regardless of whether or not we're trying to add a topic um into the board comment section or whether we're trying to add a topic into a section called new business. So the same rules apply to that. But it sounds like you're saying if we had a line that says new business, it would allow us to more organize our thoughts about the upcoming agenda
162differently. Uh even though we would follow the rules in the same way. Is that what you're saying? >> Yeah. Yes. No disrespect to the rules. Just just a space where it makes sense that we can the public can anticipate where you know like if if there was a situation where oh you know like in the I just found out the night before a meeting that you know we haven't had time to discuss it. Mark and Steven haven't had time to get together. You know all these things. And I'm like well I can see if we can I I'll put it to the board basically. I'll bring it up to the board because I I personally and here let me justify this a little bit. A quorum is four board members. Okay, so that I understand
163that. Okay, so when we're talking the most people that can talk is three at a time. Okay, understand that. So, in order to get an item on the agenda and some consensus about that item and some thought about that item and even some debate about that item, you know, I'm working the phones, I'm texting for who knows how long about an issue where if I were if I and we're on the flip side of that, if we're at a meeting and I'm like, you know what, I really want to discuss policy blah blah blah blah blah blah and then when we get to new new business items, in in our normal structure of our meeting with all respect to that process we could say new you know director oki new any new business items director
164oki yes I'd like to put on the next agenda you know the discussion um for policy or whatever >> no I appreciate that thank you so much Sarah I think I understand the question u we can solve this also offline in terms of what the agenda looks like um but do you have any quick advice about whether or there's any value of adding the new business. >> I I think it's still a problem. Um I I mean I have the problem also with boards that just have comments. Okay. So uh just because I don't understand that if you're speaking as a whole board. I I'm not exactly 100% sure why the comments exist, but the I know a lot of districts do it. I have problems with these kind of you know if if indeed
165something came up the night before um in particular in that scenario I don't think it should be something that you add to the agenda the next day okay if it if it that's something that needs to be worked through the process and it's the process isn't to you know uh frustrate board members um the process is quite honestly to make sure that the board time, you guys are all volunteers, so precious, is spent on the most important board items. And so if there is something that comes up that you're getting texts and emails about, that's something that we have to let the staff take action first. And even if it is a top block issue, um I would want them to try and and resolve the issue because that's how we get the really good
166information, the really good communication for the board to make the right decision. And the time to decide is this a top block decision is not the next day. And so that's why I mean whether something's legal or not is irrelevant. The question is, is it a good practice? And I don't think a free-for-all at the end of the meeting is a good practice. Um uh what I think what you guys are all functioning on right now is a um developing good protocol so that everybody feels comfortable um that they're being heard and that their items if they're a top luck as you make it up to the agenda. Um but that not to say that um uh I I hear the frustration. Yeah. And and I do think that maybe a thoughtful process about what
167does the end of our meeting look like is a good conversation. >> Well, I would say like um so Sarah, keep on answering those questions. I want to hear more. We'll see if there's if like the the core part of it could be answered in different ways. Um but for the sake of time, if it's okay, I'd like to move on to the next. Well, I would like to express I would like to express since we are here that that is a very frustrating part of our progress that I feel like we could be making more of in terms of policy revisions or um you know concerns and issues. And so I am expressing my frustration and I know that I can keep asking those questions but I have been asking that question. And so
168I would like to see either you know a protocol or a process or something where this is not as frustrating for board members who are working to try to make that difference and focus on, you know, the future of of our district. we have some business we need to clean up and we have some business we need to get started and I I don't want to keep being told to keep asking those questions or why don't you talk to Mark or um this because I want to see progress and so this is this is the the the most respectful way to see that progress I think would be to create that space for new business so that you know can add that and I am frustrated I want everybody to understand that I am frustrated.
169>> Sarah, what >> I'm sorry. Go ahead, >> Sarah. What is not what what's not working for if I'm understanding like if we have a something that we want on the agenda, we email Stephen and say, "I'd like this on the agenda for next like meeting. Are you saying that we need to do something before the next meeting?" No, I'm saying that often times that when we are in the process of that I I think of it in terms of a month, right? Okay. So, we have a board meeting coming up and we have our um we have our stuff. We we get the information. I think the agenda is released on a Friday, right? And then we have until like Tuesday to add to the agenda. Correct me if I'm wrong. Well, you can
170email anytime though to add an agenda anytime during the month, right? You can email Stephen and say, "Hey, >> this is true. This is true." But what I'm what I'm sensing is even with a even with my ration or even with my concerns, I'm doing a lot of back and forth emails and texts and questioning to try to get clarity on what we could, would, and should do on that top level. When I am talking, I'm thinking top cuz I realize that sometimes there are like complaints around staff and stuff that we don't need to be even in that business. I get that. But what I'm saying is it's like the circle that cycle of the circle where it doesn't seem to happen is is getting very frustrating. And I realize, and don't get me
171wrong, you guys, I know we've been up to our eyeballs working on other issues, but I do want to see a space for progress, whatever that looks like, whatever that feels like. The comments is it's it's it's junk. It's a junky space. So, like, it's vague. It's gray and it's not clear. And I would like to know where if if it doesn't get resolved or if it doesn't get communicated or if we don't get the clarity we need on whatever is coming to us from our patrons and our people in our community or andor this is really where my brain's at policy because I am part of the policy committee and I I'm looking forward to making changes through that committee but I also want to make sure that you know as things are happening
172with like Senate Bill 3 or like the brand new cell phone policy or things that there's a space for that discourse where we're all together and we can actually have that discourse if it's not already part of the agenda >> and and it's frustrating with that. >> Right. Right. So Mark's going to share something. Um yeah, >> I I would just say, you know, and I I don't know that this answers or addresses the entire uh complexity of of the question, but most of the vast majority of our policies go for a first and second read. And so, um, when they're they're in that first read mantra, that that's an opportunity to share some thoughts or concerns around that policy and and to give administration some direction about, hey, we would like you to look
173into X, Y, and Z. And our job then is over the course of that next month prior to the the next meeting is to investigate that and then to share out with the board, you know, we reviewed this request and maybe we ran it by legal and it was not legal's recommendation to to make this tweak to the policy because it would be in violation of a state statute or whatnot. Um the the end of the board meetings to me really have in my mind what what they're meant for is is you know the board to uh I've seen some great uses. You know a board member sharing that they visited these schools for these activities. They they want to commend some amazing experience they had at at a school. Um not so much work
174related things. Now, I do see that if a board member to to your point wanted to add an agenda item, I think it could be done, but to your point and to Steven's point, it would have to have a second and it would then just go to a quick vote. It would go through no discussion. to me to create a new meeting section there. Your your public would have no idea what you're bringing to that section and potentially voting on. I I I mean I I can't wrap my mind around it yet. Um somebody might be able to get me there. Uh, I just want to make sure we're not we wouldn't be violating some statute that we're adding agenda items through the conversation. Um, when we our protocol would be if a board member
175wants something on an agenda for a board meeting for discussion or that would go to Stephen in an email. I'd like you to add this to the next board agenda item. Now, Stephen has the authority to add it or not add it. Um >> we can add it for just discussion just to discuss though right like and then we can make a motion out of it if we decide at the end of that discussion that we want to create a motion right so that's kind of the pro proper protocol so I would say Sarah like if you've got something you want you just email Stephen and say hey this is the this is what I want on the agenda for discussion and then the open session is where we discuss it and that can be
176just a discussion or if out of that discussion you have a motion kind of in your mind that you want to create then we can make a motion to that end, right? >> Yeah. So, um >> Yes. >> So, yes. >> Yeah. So, basically there there are certain things that we're just not allowed to do and we can't just um put new board um business at the bottom of an agenda and talk about whatever topic we wanted to. Um that's that's not allowed. Um, but when it comes to the creating a board agenda, what we've talked about is um, if a person can talk to me in between board meetings and I can share with Mark and kind of go through it and seems like it's appropriate, it's on target and then I can email
177the entire board and say there's a board member who wants to have this added. Um, if you have any concerns with that idea, call me. If not, we'll add it to the agenda and then it becomes a discussion point. Like that would be >> that that's fine. I think the limitation is just forum. Like I, you know, like we have to all be together to have a discussion. So the only places that we're all together, it's either close session or open session. >> So where does this happen? >> Open session. >> There's rules about close session. So there's certain >> it'll be it'll be on an open session agenda. If if that's if a board member I'll go back to it, if it's also being written out, if a board member wants to add something
178to the agenda, they share it with me. Uh, I will talk with Mark to see is it in line. Who knows, maybe it's being discussed, you know, two months from now when there's already a board report, whatever the case is, but I'll talk with Mark. Um, and he says it's in order and the timing seems like it works. I will email the entire board. The entire board um will be presented the idea that this board member wants to present this topic at open board meeting agenda. If you have any concerns about this, uh, call me, but if I don't hear anything, then I'll go on to the agenda. That's fair. I just need it's it's the quorum piece because it's where do where do we actually have the opportunity to discuss >> anything and the
179answer is closed or open session for the most part as a group. >> Yeah, I agree. >> That's the problem. >> That's just the nature of boards though. I mean that's just the unfortunate nature of boards and it is probably the hardest thing I've had to adjust to and it is just the way it is. It's we're government officials in that capacity and everything we do has to be out in the open as awkward and uncomfortable as it may be. >> Your frustration is very common for new school board members because you know you get on and you're like uh things don't move as fast as you want it or that occur in your other parts of your life and it's just because under the sunshine law you have to give the public notice and
180uh it's just not as quick. Right. >> So Sarah, um, continue to let me know any more concerns along this front and I'll see what I can do to make sure that the frustration level goes down. Um, and again, thank you for being willing to attend the meeting, but also share your input. It made it a much better meeting. So, thank you so much. I if I could uh maybe move on to the next question. >> One one question. >> Do we have a deadline by when requests should be submitted to be added to the agenda? like what's a reasonable time frame like because the day before the agenda goes out might feel a little pressed or >> I mean I will tell you that the Friday before the board meeting which is on a
181Thursday is when the board action items go live. Now there are certainly situations where you know we might update a personnel report. we make a a last minute hire. Um that I you know I would I would hate to you know we're we're gonna hire a principal and we say you know on Wednesday before the Thursday board meeting we're adding an agenda item. Well no you got to wait a month like that would be oh we'll just not have a assistant principal this month. That seems to be a bad idea. Um um >> I meant more generally for if board members were going to submit >> potential items. >> Um can we just have a general a general rule that anything that you want to add to a board agenda you aim for the Wednesday
182be two Wednesdays before the board meeting. That way there's enough time for Mark and I to discuss it. >> Two Wednesdays. >> That way that way Mark and I can discuss it before. >> So really the prior week by Wednesday. So coordinating is Thursday the prior Wednesday. >> Yeah. >> I think to honor the work that we would have to do in order to support that would would warrant the two weeks. >> Yeah. It it depends on what the topic is. If it's discussing one thing versus trying >> it's a discussion item versus a message or something. Yeah. >> Sooner rather than later. >> Now you want two weeks or one week. >> We have to post one week ahead. So I would say two weeks if you want to add something. And in all
183fairness, I mean, the Friday after the board meeting, I'm already in there working like we already have an idea of what's coming up for that upcoming agenda. So, >> kind of like to mirror Susan and like the sooner the better just for preparation sake. >> Sooner sooner the better. And there's just being aware that certain topics may be so nuanced and convoluted that asking for it so close to a board meeting might require it to be pushed back a month >> because of the nature and the date of the request. >> How much research and how much work would it take to to to make it an effective topic? >> Right. >> So that so that we understand you want to just take off that you put 8 to 14 on that sheet. Should we
184just have an understanding that it's two weeks? I think so. Unless somebody's just asking for a discussion point. Yeah. >> But if it's if it's somebody >> I mean, you guys can discuss that ultimately just to decide if there's >> needed Stephen and and between the two of us, >> we have the authority to to not place it on the agenda. And at that point, we might say >> we might say, "Hey, we will we we didn't have enough time to uh fully research this. We'd like to carry it over to the next board meeting." >> Yeah. And again, there's all these small little nuances, which is where the trust has to come in. Absolutely. >> Because somebody may want it to uh be on a particular board agenda. But if there's only 8 days
185notice, and maybe it relates to a certain uh chief um who is out of town, like they're just not available. They're on vacation for the next seven days. It wasn't on their radar. There's all these different factors could require us to push it back a month. Um, not because we're trying to drag our feet or anything like that or or slow play it, but because that's the advice from Art. >> So, I'll type up what we've got and then you all can as a group >> fit finalize the language. So, we're going to move ahead to the very last thing, which is encouraging board participation and engagement. So this goes hand inhand with the discussion that you just ha had really which is our goal as a governance team is to create an inclusive atmosphere
186where everyone feels empowered to share their perspective on the topics under discussion. We want to have open dialogue but we want to also have respectful dialogue. We don't want to have interrupting you know when we're having conversations. And then if necessary, we could put structured uh discussion protocols in place like roundroin. And we're not going to take time to practice that today, but I'll just introduce what it is. But first, what makes a good school board is a question that lots of people ask. And the answer is not that all board votes are 70. Right? Again, that's a place where I might be a weirdo, but representative government is about robust conversation and often times there are differences of opinion and we should not expect to always be unanimous in everything we do. That's not
187what constitute constitutes a good school board. Instead, a good board holds quality discussions where everyone feels empowered to speak, that everyone listens to each other's opinions with an open mind, that you vote your mind and possibly your heart in good faith after you consider all the sides of the discussion, and that you accept the results of the vote. Right? And as I mentioned earlier, you don't have to love it when you're in the minority, but you need to respect that vote because again, that's what representative government is all about. So, we're just going to skip this because this will be a long conversation. But the purpose of a structure like roundroin, if it was something that a board wanted to do, is to ensure that everyone gets to speak and that no member of the
188board dominates the conversation or no small group of board members dominates the conversation on a regular basis. And using a structure like this guarantees that every member of the board has an opportunity to speak at least one time before anyone would speak a second time. And so it works kind of like this. You have one person who's in charge of keeping track of who's speaking. And that might be someone like the vice president who keeps a checklist in front of her to mark off when each person has their turn speaking. someone enforces the order in the organization like the president usually and then the way that we would recommend this happens is who whomever makes the motion starts the conversation right so when Ron makes a motion and then it's seconded Ron is the first
189one to share his opinion on the process and then we go just go around the circle it's very straightforward around left or right whatever the president decides And then each person gets to talk on the way and the president goes last. So he skips over himself where depending on where he is in the circle. People can pass if they don't have an opinion. They don't have there's no requirement to talk or if everything that you would have said has already been said or you might just comment say I echo everything Caroli said right to keep things moving forward. And then the next time that you have a discussion, the idea is to kind of try to mix things up so that you're not always going the same direction. The same person isn't always making the
190motion. So the first person is it always isn't the first person to speak and you could change directions. You could have different person make the motion so that that way the comments are more evenly distributed. Now, in some districts, if you really want to be structured, you could impose the board could decide to impose time limits even on how long is a member allowed to speak. And then you need someone to keep time as well as to how long the comments are. It just depends. You don't want, as we I mentioned a moment ago, you don't want one or a few voices to monopolize the conversation. That's really the point of having a structure like this. Some districts use structures like this, some don't and come to another set of agreements on how they're going
191to operate. So, this is the last of the collective commitments we have structure for discussion today. So, how will the board of education structure your discussions during meetings and some follow-up questions, how do you ensure that all members are encouraged and able to share their perspective? How does the board ensure that no members dominate the conversation? And then what norms will you have in place to support the above? Like this is a conversation that's way outside the scope of the time that we have already gone way over which is are you going to have expectations with respect how to how you interact with one another? Will you practice active nonverbal listening skills? Right? You pay attention to the person. We're not on our phone. we don't interrupt one another. And then the at the end
192of the day, you'll have to make a decision. Do we need a protocol like roundroin to make sure that we're getting all perspectives before folks are asked to vote? So, what do we think as a group, as someone who's never, this is the first meeting I've been to, I don't really have an informed opinion on this. You all know >> I like the idea of ensuring that everybody speaks. I don't know that we have to do that exactly like roundroin every time, but I mean it would be easy enough for me to have the list of I mean just like when we go to a vote, right? You start with a different person and go through that thing just to make sure that everybody's had a chance to speak at least once before we go
193into rebuttals and I don't know how we time block everything too to make sure it doesn't go on and on and on. >> I'm thinking five minutes is plenty. So let me ask so uh in the June meeting there was a uh agenda item that a board member wanted to bring up. I talked to the person it became a u a open meeting agenda item and I set 15 minutes. So for this ter uh topic this yeah it's going to be 15 minutes and everybody gets a chance to say it two different things. We make sure everybody had a first comment. who make sure there's a second comment and I shared that the person who brought it up the rules wouldn't apply to them the same way because they might be answering questions. Um, did
194you feel like that worked well? Do you feel like that idea of for a discussion item, many other items too, but here's a time limit we're going to set aside for this topic and then go through to make sure everybody spoke once or had the opportunity to speak once and then went back. Well, yeah. I like the thought of I don't necessarily want it to be a debate session because we we've had five days or six days to look at the topic, study it, do our own information, develop develop our our thoughts. I like the idea of one person, if you give them two minutes, express their opinion, move on to the next, go around so that we're not back and forth between two people like we've done in the past. >> Let let them
195speak and then if you want to have a follow-up, give them one minute for a followup and then after that we vote and then that gets to your 15 minutes probably. >> So, and then everybody gets a chance to speak, everybody gets a chance to be heard. So, >> just a thought. I mean, that gets to you limit limiting the time. >> Caroline and Amy, what do you think? >> I like what he's saying and I agree there should be a time limit. >> I mean, if you can't say what you want to say in I don't know whatever we agree on two, three minutes, then you're just going to keep repeating yourself. >> Okay. I like that idea of like two minutes, you know, to go around and then one minute for like >>
196and then Jane runs the clock. >> I can I can customize the clock. >> Is Sarah and Jane still on? Like do they have an opinion on that? >> Yep. Uh Sarah and Jane, do you have an opinion on that suggestion? >> Could you repeat it for me? >> Good question. U the idea is u for some agenda items could different things have different rules around them right um but for some agenda items to create a time limit >> discussion for some situations it might be a 15-minute discussion and those situations allow whoever wants to speak they can but the first time they speak is up to two minutes only and if there is a second time they speak it's only one minute >> and we go around to make sure that everybody has an
197opportunity for a first comment and then a second comment if if they want to. >> Yes, that's exactly how the NEA does it. I'm very used to that and it's very effective because things move very quickly. >> Yeah. And that would be doing the math that there's 7* 2 is 14 and then you know seven more minutes that's 21 >> if everybody speaks but that would be >> the idea that maybe 20 minute would be an idea. >> Well, a lot of people wouldn't want two minutes. They may not want to, but if they did, >> okay, >> I've participated in it uh when we did um like uh the representative assembly in Portland and I got to see that full throttle and it was awesome. It was absolutely awesome how how efficient it was.
198So yeah, I totally support that. >> Okay. And um and Jane um let me know if you want to message me both now or uh outside of now. That would help out too. >> I think I'm on mute. >> Oh, there you are. Good. I want to make sure. Thank you. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think as long as we can keep the discussions that we want to have in this little area where we say there's no no not real discussion between the members. Though I do think that some discussion is good. I I like the idea of limiting it. I'm not sure that for every conversation that around Robin >> uh fits into that that >> that little barrel because of the fact that sometimes I might have a a question for you or for
199Amy or whoever and that then that's considered like a back and forth. So I'm just because she says something and then I have that I have a question about what she just said. So I think you know we need a a way to kind of work around those but in general yes I definitely agree with need to be some grace as we try to figure all that out but as a beginning parameter I think that sounds good >> awesome thank you Jean >> thank you >> okay so hey you decided a lot today so this was really great robust conversation you made a lot of important decisions We're not going to go through the minutiae of each one right now before we leave. As I said, when I get back to work, I will type
200up all of these notes from these sheets that I've had and then send them to you all so that you can review, make adjustments that you feel are necessary. But one thing I would like you to think about before we leave is based on all this conversation today. You know, it being on a governance team is about being able to work together as a group, but you also have to think about what you're bringing as an individual to the group. And so I'd ask you to think about what can you do to ensure that you are bringing your aame to the governance team meetings every time. And so there's a spot down at the bottom of that sheet for you to make a note to yourself if if and when you choose to do so.
201What can you personally pledge to do to improve the quality of governance that you individually are going to bring to this collective group and to help move Francis how forward because as we said earlier all of you are here for the right reasons you want to support kids really that's the only reason that people sign up for these jobs which are genuinely thankless right nobody signs up unless they really have hard in doing what's best for kids. And so for that, you're to be commended. Just be thoughtful after this conversation. What might you do differently moving forward to ensure that you're the best board member that you can be? And of course, we've never asked you to share those things out loud just for your own personal thought and growth. Anyway, sorry that we went
202way over, 45 minutes over. This was a great conversation. I skipped a whole bunch at the end. I'll send you the slides with everything in it so that you can read through the things that we missed because there's some good stuff in there. >> Right. And we need u when you do that, could you also number the slides because your notes have an indication like what slide goes with it? >> Yep. >> But the slides don't have a number. So if you can sure will when I print out the PDF, I'll probably put like four on a page. Susan, those have numbers on them, I think. Don't they slide? >> Okay. >> So I'll send them to you as a PDF which you could just share. >> Yeah. I just want to thank you both
203as well for being here. If if anything, if it helps us be a more efficient and and a better running organization, that's what it's all about. So, we appreciate you guys' leadership and coming and visiting us. Susan twice and and John and Lisa just for helping us through our process. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> Happy to do so anytime. Susan, can we take those u cup? >> I brought even more Sarah too. And so uh again, so thank you. And for those of you who are joining us online, just to share this again, uh there's a res source called the Missouri School Board, uh Association, and they have a number of employees who do things like this to help us run meetings well, run the district well, and just very thankful for
204the resources you guys provide and for us to learn, be trained so that we can be a better board, create a better district. So thank you very much. >> We exist solely for that purpose. >> Yes. I I really appreciate it. All right. So, um, a couple more things that were listed on our, uh, retreat agenda. Um, one, norms and best practices. Is that that's what we just discussed? Is that, um, the second thing, uh, refers to student board representative. Um, we just have a a way that we've been handling student board representative and the idea is just to continue doing it, um, that way. Um, is there we don't take a vote on this at all, but is there any discussion on student board representative? Okay. Well, we will continue doing it that way.
205Um, >> I think it's only really just a question. We we take a picture with them, right? >> Right. >> We do. And they get that kind of like as a momentto of the occasion. >> Yes. >> And they're c they're celebrated. I don't know how they're celebrated, but I I just want to make sure the kids feel cool and awesome and part of us and connected and I I just wanted to I wanted to understand the full circle of that. So, and and that's awesome. And they did they get like a certificate or a letter or anything? >> Yes, >> that's all they needed. No, I'm happy. >> Great. Thank you, director. Um there's also a buddy schools list. Um, for the most part, the buddy schools list is the same as last year,
206although with two new board uh members, those board members are stepping into some of those spots. Uh, but we will share a list of all those buddy school relationships. Um the buddy school relationship is to number one help each school know which board member they may be able to reach out to um to have a more of a personal relationship with that board member but it's also so that board member can participate in events at that school and therefore be able to share um celebrations from each of those schools as well and we have that list um as exists. So >> uh did we complete it? It is almost. Excuse me. >> Sorry. I'm sorry, guys. >> No apologies. Can >> Can I just ask maybe if um if if possible, could I get maybe
207some events sent to me so I know like the big ones at my buddy schools that I can plan ahead and take time off if I need to to come participate? I would I would suggest uh we typically ask that board members follow the e-news subscriptions for those individual schools. Um that way you can see on a week-toeek basis everything that's going on. So if they're having a special event, uh you know um you know parent teacher conference night or anything like that, it's typically listed in that structure so that you can pick and choose what what you think you might want to attend. And so there are some board members I know that subscribe to every school uh just to have a good picture of what's going on across the district. But I but
208I do know that we have board members that only subscribe to their buddy school so that they can intently focus on those areas. >> And Mark, is that is that the Facebook group or is this something different than the Facebook groups? No, it it it would come to your district email. Uh and it would be the um as a like as a parent, I subscribed to Sager Middle School and Francis Health Central because that's where my kids went to and so I wanted to see the week-toeek updates of what was going on in the school. Uh sometimes it has principal comments, but it uh more it always has calendar events in there. And so you can subscribe just to those e-news for those particular schools that you're you're buddied with. And if any board member
209needs help or assistance with that, we're happy to uh like um right prior to a a board meeting date, somebody can help you get subscribed to those individual school sessions. >> Awesome. Perfect. Thank you. >> Great. >> Sarah, I just sent you a link. also to that that's on the website where you can sign up for the e-news on the any school. >> Perfect. Thank you. >> All right. So, the only other item we have on our discussion is a conversation regarding safety and security. Um there um a couple of I think a month ago or so there was a conversation at the end of a board meeting where uh director Oli was wanting to discuss whether it's a the resolution against racism or another way of approaching that topic from a different angle. Um
210and the idea was that u during that meeting I asked can we discuss that during our uh retreat and it was considered that would be a good place for this discussion. So um the discussion happens to be um actually in some ways aligned with our board um strategic plan. >> Yeah. I so our board strategic plan and the board strategic plan has four pillars. Um and the last of the four pillars talks about safety and security. Uh one section has to do with um I guess bullet point one has to do with culture, climate and communication. The second bullet point refers to fiscal security. The third one re uh refers to data privacy and protection. So like a cyber security. Um but when it comes to the first uh area, it refers to all the
211different ways where we make Fright South School District a safe school, a safe uh district, collection of safe schools for both staff and for students. And uh on the back of our strategic plan, you can see u on this document u three different key performance indicators regarding safety and security. Um I'm going to read those. One is 100% of students feel safe at school. 100% of staff feel safe at work. The second one is 100% pass rate on physical buildings safety audits, emergency drills. The last one was 100% of identified cyber security vulnerabilities appropriately mitigated. The first of those has the most uh possible connection to a conversation um regarding how do we make safe schools. Um, so, uh, interim superintendent Mark Lee and I were discussing, you know, how do we how do we
212approach this? How do we approach the the promise of what a public school is designed to do, which is to give the best public school uh education for all students. And I wanted to make sure we had a moment to um share we have between 11:55 and 1:00 set aside for the rest of this meeting. um we do not need to take the full time if needed. Um at the same time if an hour and five minutes is not enough we will approach this topic at a different time too right. Um so u one of the questions has to deal with how do we make the most real change possible? How do we make things better for students staff? Um, and how do we also live according to whether it's our norms, our ability that
213the board doesn't make the plan, we approve the plan, right? How do we do all those things together? The the administrators do the work, we supervise the work as board members. >> Um, Mark, do you feel comfortable kind of sharing with um the ideas about tier one, tier two, tier three committees and what this might look like? >> Um, and then we can discuss it and I would obviously make sure they're involved. I would just say that when you look at all the things involving culture, climate and communication there talks about fostering a positive and welcoming learning and working environment where all students and staff are safe and supported. Families have ample opportunities to be involved in our schools and stakeholders feel heard and valued. And then throughout there it talks about strategy one um
214implementing safe schools type curriculum to decrease bullying, harassment, violence amongst students. Strategy two, increase opportunities for student voice and attachment. And strategy three, promoting and expanding opportunities for parents and comm community members to be involved in our schools and district. That's one uh strand of the safety and security uh uh pillar overall. And you know, there there's a lot of work uh to take place within our strategic planning. You know, this is a five-year plan that will fall out. And you know there's only so much work that can be done at one time and be uh effectively done. But what I would envision is uh in some of these areas there's work that will take place where you know student groups will be formed to hear student voice and to get feedback from kids about
215what they see are good things and what they see as uh areas for improvement. So, um, when I think about this, uh, particular safety and security as a whole, uh, Scott Gowen is involved more on the data privacy and protection, uh, side, Salum Stutzer is involved, Jason Griezen, more on that physical security along with Randy Gmerson, and then Dr. Vanderpool and Kevin Morrison a lot around the culture, climate and uh communication as well as Jen Jules trying to interact and get our parents involved uh parental perceptions around school, community perceptions around school. So, I would see some opportunity for tier 2 committees to be formed that are addressing concerns that we receive that might come through um we might get uh through some uh engagement around um uh some of our surveys. We might get
216some data results that are concerning to us that may trigger us to form a group. um that could be a a short-term group, it could be a long-term group, but really is allowing the work to take place through the strategic plan and addressing the needs as they come, as were informed by stakeholders across the district. Um I see there being a very logical pathway there. Um and that's kind of one of the things that we talked about. We talked about tier 2 uh committees because it really is falling under the umbrella of the strategic uh group and it allows some flexibility of which stakeholders are being brought to the table. Um you know we want student voice to be included in in some of these things and and those tier 2 committees allow uh the
217structure of tier 2 committees allow for that work to take place in that manner. and just a so Mark and I talked about this for just a few minutes and it wasn't a lockdown. This is what it has to be, but it was just a here's a version that might check some of those boxes and for everybody else have a discussion. So that's why we're here in an open, you know, retreat for discussion. Um the goals and Sarah if you're still there um the goals to um address or to improve uh can you communicate what you're hoping to accomplish? What what's the goal behind this discussion in your mind? So I feel there's there's several but in alignment of course with our strategic plan overall our community has um uh our community trust I believe
218and perception right has been um uh whittleled down through some of our policy changes over the last two years and some of the policies or regulations or resolutions that we have allowed to sunset. And I do feel like it would behoove us as a district to not just reinstate the resolution for racism because I don't I feel like the world has changed. I feel like we have changed since then. I feel like we need to collectively show and demonstrate to our community how we uh can put not just a policy out to them, but a uh a uh what's the word I want to say? I'm not saying anthem. I'm not saying I can't think of the word exactly, but it's it is symbolic and it is something that is in language that is meant
219to be consumed by the public. So, it's not a policy, right? It's not a bylaw. It's not a regulation. It's not a statute. It's something that uh much like the resolution of racism was is a sincere sentiment that I feel that our community needs to hear that we understand. I feel like it would rebuild some bonds that have been broken >> and um I feel I feel like it needs to be revised significantly of course to reflect the changes that we've seen in our world. But I also feel like um it it is something that people are expecting in our community too. They want an answer to or a a a resurrection of our commitment to diversity or our commitment to um >> Okay. >> our uh community. There is it. I tried. >> No,
220no, you great. U Thank you. Um, Carol, >> well, um, I know I've spoken to you about this idea I had about a one howl >> committee and, um, when I dreamed it up one night, I was I was thinking, how do we bring everybody in the community together thinking about the resolution and different things that have happened in the community and I thought if we had some kind of a group of people that their focus was to create a on how where everyone is heard, everyone matters and we discuss issues and decide does this issue create a oneh how or does it divide us and so if you could run everything through a lens of unity and where everyone is treated fairly everyone is seen and heard I think if we could start there
221then we could start looking at issues and I mean I don't know how that would work would you have a group at each school and then they would come together, the schools would the people on the teams would come together from time to time, >> but so you don't lose these issues. You don't forget about them >> because I think people feel like they're not visible sometimes and they think nobody cares about, you know, like bullying. You talk about bullying with these with this committee. talk about all the things that keep students from learning and hurts their mental health because we want them to be healthy in every way. So, it's just an idea how do we bring everybody together and people so cuz you know we have all these groups in schools and you
222know we all know that we all went to school too and how do we get people working together instead of against each other? We don't want that. >> I love that idea so much. It really it would reflect on our core values. But I think the importance of it is to put it in language that is meant for the community, not a policy cuz that's legal ease. You know, it's got to be sentiment that we allows us to drive that lens, the lens of one owl, >> right? And so I appreciate that Sarah. So, um, and so what I hear you saying, Sarah, is more of a connection to some kind of a statement that the community hears or sees. What I'm hearing from Caroli was a reference to a one house committee or something
223along those lines and >> maybe every school would have their own little >> groups meet together once in a while. >> There might be subgroups of that. Um, I'm going to try to apply one of the norms we just discussed. Um I want to see what Ron um Amy and Jane have to share before um we go back for other people's second or or next turn. So Ron or Amy um do you want to share uh the idea of having um a a committee or the the freedom for the admin to create multiple committees that start stop. It might be group of elementary school um related parents one part and maybe there's another one for this but it just enabling and empowering the admin to create the committees that they need to address this point.
224Um I Ron Amy um love to hear your thoughts on that idea. >> Can I add one more thing? I think sometimes students can make some very valuable >> Oh right yeah depending on >> additions to these ideas. >> Correct. All right. So, >> know what they're dealing with. >> Do you want to feel comfortable sharing? >> Yeah. I'm just curious to see what plans Mark had and what his thoughts would be, what he would put together. I don't want to step on his toes as to what his thoughts would >> what he what he would want to do. >> So, I'd be curious to see what he would put together with his surveys and his plans of action to >> Yeah. >> for that pillar. >> Okay. Thank you, Ron. Um maybe >> I
225will just say this is a big passion point for me too and I think of it as like almost just like a culture statement and then also active bodies whether it's you know the committees or however that ends up looking within schools and between schools because I really do want to make sure that we also look at this at the district level even though each school probably has its own unique concerns you know yeah climates and things like that so that you know you want to respect obviously the building, but also make sure that we've got, you know, some unifying, clarifying culture statements, value statements across the at the district level. I will say for me, I know there's a lot of attention that's given to um you know, we we talked about, you know,
226racism, um we talked about bullying. I also want to really and this is something that I spent time with in my corporate land. Um working on around inclusion and accessibility, thinking about our kids with um disabilities, thinking about uh anyone who just might feel otherred and that can be for any number of reasons seen or unseen. Um so it's really comes down into that idea of acceptance and inclusion. And I just want to make sure that part of our conversation has to do with, you know, we talk about kids feeling set up for success. Um, being mentally and emotionally in a place where they can learn and feeling valued. Um, that has to do with not just looking at overt actions that we see with bullying or, you know, racist comments or things like this.
227not just even microaggressions um but also exclusion and isolation. So I think part of what I would love to see especially when we think about our kids with disabilities is some exposure and some education. So we spent some time in a couple of different companies that I've worked for uh bringing in groups uh who have people with autism or people who are blind or people in wheelchairs or you know you name it and just talking about what is life like? what is my perspective? What do I feel like? And those like empathy exercises are really educational exercises. And these were for grown adults, right? This was in like in the workplace and everything because what you s what you tend to see happen is people don't know how to interact. They don't know what to
228say. They're afraid they're going to say the wrong thing. So, they just don't engage at all. And then you end up isolating these kids or isolating these adults because they don't know how to deal with someone who has ticks or who behaves in a way that isn't typical. Right? So I think in this public school environment, one of our responsibilities as we talk about all kids and making all kids feel included is to also look at that and have some exposure to that and give voice to that. So whether it's um talking to our kids of color, you know, what has your experience here been? what kind of experiences have you had and for the kids who are willing to share that but also our kids with disabilities or kids with you know socioeconomic differences
229we just have this beautiful tapestry of children and experiences here that is both a blessing and a complication right um and I just want to make sure that whatever we're doing is really just that empathy focused that human- centered focused um so that we can really create environments that are focused on making sure everybody really does feel valued. So, whatever that looks like, um there lots of different opportunities. I would love to be um give you some ideas as we put this stuff together, but I just really want to make sure we highlight that exposure um and education component to it. >> Thank you, Dr. Pushkar. and she may have stepped away. Here we go. >> No, for one some reason it wouldn't it wouldn't unmute. Um I I agree with all the comments that
230have been made thus far. I think we need uh some unity committees put together whether it be at the schools individually or collectively. Um I think we need some very strong leadership in the on those committees that will keep the focus on how we can bring people together as opposed to uh singling out an individ an individual group as you know you guys are racist or you guys are bullies and instead create an environment where it brings people together. If if we can accomplish that, I think that would be a goal that everybody on the board has been working towards and we haven't always been successful in doing that. >> Um, so there's tier one tier one committees. Um, and I'm hearing again Sarah made a reference to some kind of a statement as well.
231I want to get back to that because I heard heard what Sarah shared. A tier one committee is something that the board creates and the people um in a tier one committee, the committee then reports to the board directly. Right? That's a tier one committee. >> That is correct. We have two tier one committees. We have a policy committee currently um that reports to the board monthly on you know policy changes. Essentially, they're making uh some recommendations and then we have a an insurance committee um that reviews our uh plans um on an annual basis multiple times a year uh to make recommendations on behalf of uh you know employees, >> right? And so u a tier two and excuse me the tier one committees we also have to decide it has to have these
23212 people and it's three of this, two of this, four of this. It's the tier one has a lot of >> each tier one committee has to have a set of approved bylaws approved by the board for that specific committee. So there are bylaws approved for the policy committee, there are bylaws approved for uh the insurance committee. Um so there's some tight structure to tier one committee whereas like on the tier 2 committee it also can be may or may not be appointed by the board. Um but um they don't report to the board. It just they're allowed to work through and and plan, study, analyze, and do. >> Yeah. >> And and the board would still have the same responsibilities we have of the general government or the whole district. And things might come
233out of a tier 2 committee that requires either budget change or policy change or all that stuff, but that's a different relationship between the tier 2 committee and the board. >> Yeah. So the the tier 2 committees really um they're not they would not be making policy change recommendations, right? So the tier 2 committees would be more like through this strategic plan work, there's work that needs to take place. There's going to be groups that form. There's going to be groups that develop a survey. What are what are the sur They're going to decide what do these survey questions look like. They're going to set the cycles for administration of the surveys. They're going to review the the data from the surveys and then make recommendations for next steps. Oh, based upon this survey data,
234uh, you know, a prime example might be um I've heard this several times like, "Wow, the the adults in the district, the the the community members and the the teachers, boy, they really scored this really high, but the kids, they really scored this really really low. Wow. We probably need to organize some groups of kids across the district just to get a better understanding of what they're feeling or seeing and allow them for some feedback. What what can we do to to improve in that area and then that group might make some recommendations about some things that we're going to to you know put into practice in in our buildings like but all that could could occur through our strategic plan and process. Um so so one advantage of a tier 2 committee would be
235um the the timeline. It doesn't necessarily be like a full year. You might be here's five people. We want you to explore this topic. Um here's a conversation regarding elementary school. Basically you can start stop you can pursue things as they pop up. It's more nimble um less bureaucratic. It is just >> yeah tier one tier one committees fix the problem >> are are subject to sunshine and you know they're they're boardappointed committees that are going to make recommendations on board policy or financial implications for the district right whereas tier 2 committees feel to me more like working actionable groups that are working to create some uh changes throughout the organization. In your opinion, u do you think this is better as a tier two or tier one? >> I mean, for me, tier 2
236committees allow you to be more flexible and include groups of stakeholders that um you know, you might you might want to just pull a small group of elementary kids in just to get their feedback across the district. I think it would be could be difficult to write bylaws that encompass all of that if that were a tier one committee. And I think there's some uh conversations that should someone know that, you know, I want to share my lens as a student um and it's subject to sunshine, that might feel uncomfortable to me. I may not want to I may not want to share my my full scope of of what I believe in in that type of uh environment. And so, um, you know, you're when you're talking about, um, a topic even such as
237being, uh, feeling bullied, right? Like those are sensitive, uh, subjects that, you know, people may not want to open up about if, um, not knowing where that information is going to be shared. Um, and they may feel in a group of just their peers, um, that that they're able to share in front of a group of peers. But you start throwing in adults into that group and it may feel very different. So um >> and their parents might not like that either. >> Correct. >> Right. U Dr. Oki has a question. >> We currently put out climate surveys to all of our buildings that I know our teachers fill out. Do we have a climate survey in some way, shape, or form that kids fill out? And if so, if that data is an anonymous,
238then can we bring that data so that we're not doxing a child, which we would be terrible. Okay. But we can use the data that we gather and that data can be used to drive some decision making and the adults can handle data if it's submitted anonymously from students. >> Okay. So, um either Mark or Jennifer I mean, I would say, u, you know, my perspective, and I've been in the district now for quite some time, we're very strategic in a lot of the work that we do. Um, we do, uh, survey our staff. We do survey students. Um, and and we we've had a pretty thorough comprehensive school improvement planning process over the last 20 years. And we use that data to drive action steps. Um there's always, as somebody pointed out at the
239very beginning of the meeting, what we look to do is constantly improve. That's what our strategic plan, as Ron identified, uh early about getting to certain levels. We're always looking to improve in areas. Um and yes, so you are correct, uh Director Oki, that that information allows us to be flexible and to try to meet kids needs um uh where they are. Uh so yes, we do have those. Now, survey questions may be refined over time or changed over time based upon what you're seeing as concerns from kids um or staff uh across the board. But yes, we do have that information. >> Okay. So, we're not reinventing the wheel at all. We can use the data and the processes that we already have and that saves us time, people, and money. um using that
240data as a starting point. Then can we assemble the I I mean I would in my opinion I would almost want a tier one committee and a tier 2 committee because I feel like we should have a way to engage the public outside of public comments and board meetings, right? Um and I don't know if that looks like a town hall or whatever that might look like cuz I feel like all of that's already being done. It's just a matter of maybe, and I'm probably oversimplifying this, but what I think I'm stressing here is like I think we're doing all these things, but we're doing them in islands where I feel like that all needs to be concentrated into a some form of a decision or a recommend recommendation uh committee then with board over
241board oversight. So we can be then part of and aware of that process. And I and and then there's accountability for that data as well, >> right? >> Because I >> No. Yeah. I apologize it cut you off. What was that again? >> Accountability for the data that we're already gathering. So I I do feel like you know having um the using the data we're already gathering centralizing it instead of it being you know some if it's one howl it's one howl. So instead of like building versus building versus building, you know, we're looking at this as a a culture, as a whole culture. And that committee would take the data that already exists so that we're not starting from zero. >> And if there's accountability there, there should be accountability there. And and even
242word insight or oversight. >> Gotcha. Thank you. So, uh, what I've heard you say was, okay, um, we have advantage of information we already have and it helps us get a chance to start. Um, am I right to hear you say, um, if we already have information, we should have been using that information. So, the the the next step shouldn't be a step that we are already making. So what you're hoping for is if there is a set of tier 2 committees >> that pops up, changes along the way, whatever as it needs that it does work differently than the work that has been happening. >> Is that is that the idea? >> I feel like I feel Yeah, we're >> we don't need to start from zero. We already have survey data >> aggregate
243into our new committee and let them work with it. >> Right. Yeah. And so that would be the idea is that tier 2 would take the data and start running with it right away. >> Another thing I will add to the conversation just as a a reminder, we did a culture climate round table about a year ago. So kind of in addition to the building climate data, we have I actually brought with me the survey data and the notes. I think we had about 100 people at the in-person meeting and one of the questions we had a question about why is it important to create a welcoming environment? Um what are we doing well and then what are some areas for improvement? And we got a great deal of feedback and our team has been
244working through that for over a year and doing some things. Um everything as you can imagine moves slower, right? There's a lot of suggestions in there. Our intention has been and will be our pillar four meeting meets again next week. This is some of the data we'll be looking at through pillar 4. So I just want you to know that regard, you know, I don't know that we want want to add a bunch of layers of committees because pillar four in the strategic plan really does center on this. This data is here. we've been using it and that will continue uh working through. One of the suggestions actually a year ago was really around we need core values. We need a strategic plan that prioritizes this. So that really was the focus last year. Let's
245get that foundation. And so you see some of that reflected in and I I just I think yes, there's always room for more input. I think what some in our community will say is we've been talking about what we need to do for a long time. We need to really start like the focus really needs to be on let's make some additional action. And I think we're really positioned to do that now that we have those foundational pieces in place. And um so I just wanted to remind you that data exists in addition to all the building level climate data as well. >> Thank you, Jennifer. Um Director Owens, Treasure Owens. >> Yeah. Um I think that's awesome that you have all that. Um just something that I've been feeling and it could be just
246my perception is that all schools do not seem to be equal. that you know that's that's very difficult to achieve because the populations are so different but I think that's something I would like to see us work toward that all kids get the same things at each school there nobody's no school is left behind you you know what I'm saying because it I I think we have a lot of there's not continuity between all the schools that there could and I know that's hard in a very large district >> maybe that's something we could look at and say is this school being left behind or is this why you know how's this school doing all these things and this school doesn't have all those things >> I mean just programs resources >> so um and
247that's just in general desire that everybody has every school >> is able to provide the absolute best possible and there's as much similarities um for the topic right now regarding safety and security is there any of those concerns you have on this topic >> um as well that that there might be a discrepancy between what one student experiences at one school versus what one student experiences another when it comes to that and if if that is one of the concerns then that needs to be >> I I guess that can that be that the administrators at each school I mean they all have codes of conduct but do they follow them >> yeah so that would be something for >> you know things like that >> yeah and that and that'd be something that this
248committee in my mind has the flexibility to address that topic >> I would say from an accountability uh standpoint, I I don't know what the greatest accountability we can have is to to our strategic plan. Um that should be the the work that is driving us uh in all of these big four areas. I I know when you look at the the pillars, they're they're very broad areas, but the work becomes all the action steps that those individual groups will will start to embark on on a on a daily basis and and be very intentional about what they're what they're monitoring, what they're doing, what they're what they're uh supporting, and and that just the daily work is is what their strategic plan. So from an accountability standpoint, it's it's there. >> Right. So um
249I want to wrap up this part of the conversation and then there's a second section as well. Um >> what do you say that >> excuse me? Yeah, >> we get a report of what is being done so that we're understanding how how the like just I don't know if it's like a you know a bullet list or a summary um but just so that we're also aware as a board of what you know like I know Jennifer said that they had a committee a year ago that's great what are we are we having another committee and what are the results of that um what are the action steps that came from I just want to see it. I want to I want to see what work is being done. >> Okay. >> For just
250for the sake of board knowledge, not and so then I can say to the community in a in a sense, yeah, we have this. It's a wonderful thing. Please get engaged. >> But I want I'd like to see that. >> Great. So the question is can we see what is happening or has happened? >> Yes. And just to clarify if I said committee and then I misspoke. I meant we had a community roundt. That's what I was referencing. And so we have the data. Um it might have been shared with the board previously, but we can certainly share that. Again, that is really just the report of here are some things we're doing well and some things we need to do. And then we can put together, you know, here are some things we've done
251since that time and here are some other things that are on the radar that are really being considered by pillar 4. Update you on that. Yes. >> And then just to reiterate, you know, the strategic plan is a five-year process. And so we'll be providing updates to the board. Um, you know, we have we've we've given short synops uh uh synopsis of what's going on kind of at the monthly board meeting, but then the pillars will be reporting more on a quarterly basis. Um, as as you can imagine, it takes time for groups to come together. Anyone that's a part of a committee, they're volunteering their time and so that work takes time. Just like our board gets together monthly, we're asking people to commit uh time above and beyond their normal work days and
252and things along those natures. So it will take time, but yes, you will see the work unfold throughout these committee structures. So on on this topic, u it sounds like what Mark is recommending as the interim superintendent is that the work of this uh desire, this shared desire for safety um for both students and staff, right? That it would be done through a series of tier 2 committees that would pop up, whether it's one or two, different manifestations, whatever it is that reports to you. Um, and then you would then share all that with the board, right? And so that's what we're talk about. We're not voting on anything. This is not a voting meeting, >> but does that sound like the good next step is >> Mark being empowered um to have different tier
2532 committees. Um, and I just want to share this. Um, for me it's that first check mark that says the goal is for this set of tier 2 committees for that 100% of students feel safe at school and 100% of staff feel safe at work. That that that would be the goal, right? That that's the goal. Nothing else on this list, >> nothing on other pillars. >> That's the goal. >> Well, yes. Yes. I just want to say safe is not just physical. >> I believe it's also emotional. Y >> and that that's yes >> absolutely >> and for us I think there's opportunity too for us as a board to think about >> how we can celebrate and educate you know when it comes to all of that too. So again, I just don't
254want to lose track of that. This isn't something that just magically happens by, you know, everybody feel good and value everybody, okay? You know, cuz we know that that gets lost in the shovel. But really thinking about a concerted focus on how can we make sure that those kids who are not feeling protected and safe or included are able to share and get some have some empathy building somehow in some way. not only within their schools, but then for us as a board to be able to find time deliberately to call that out and to celebrate some of those. We've had some we've had some teams come uh some schools come and show some of the programs that they're doing that have been so awesome. So, I'd love us to be able to like really
255celebrate that and have that be kind of like a an incentive or a reward also to >> to keep it going. >> And I I think the community needs to know all these things that you're doing. Yeah, we just saw that >> so that they feel good about that. So, I mean, I don't think you can over publicize these good things. >> Yeah, >> I agree. I agree. I mean, the John Welen kindness club made me cry >> and I think that the whole world needs to know about these kids and what they're doing. It's We have an opportunity here to repair our love, our our trust, and I think we should take it and use it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Uh, thank you. Um there's another thing that was brought up along the lines
256of a a forward- facing message. Um you heard uh Director Oli's idea. Um does anybody else want to speak to whether you believe a forward- facing message is um needed um or is celebrating the advances in the tier 2's the forward- facing message? Oh, I don't >> Are you talking about are you are you talking about like basically something similar >> like a culture statement >> resolution for racism? it it it's a forward- facing message whether it's list of our core values that already exist um whether it's >> are you saying something that we post in the >> school that is what um director brought up and I'm just want to make sure >> I mean because if you post all our core values so I mean we could include the ideas from the resolution
257in there along with other things um you know I'm I Is that what you're referring to? >> Well, >> yeah. And forward facing, meaning we put it out to the public just like we put out the resolution racism, >> right? I'm just I do want to name that um yeah, when it comes to a forward facing, there's there's multiple different options. And um I'm just wondering, number one, not asking what it even is, is there any desire that there is a forward- facing message? And if there is, then there's a whole we don't have it's 12, you know. >> I think this is it. >> Yeah. I think our values and everything I we've got we have all of the component pieces here. Right. >> Right. >> So, I feel good about that. I think
258it's just finding ways to continue to highlight that and ingrain that. And there are a lot of values listed. So, it's a little bit more complex than like our mission statement, right? Um, but >> yes, >> but I do feel like our community does want to see something. I do feel like that I I do feel like they want something, >> right? And uh I just want to share earlier uh during the MSBA training uh there was a a caution of you know our community wants this um or to speak you know because some of our community wouldn't want it you know to have certain statements right and so um so the idea is what is needed and what what is it um and that's why I'm just asking like we're not this is not
259for us to decide this is out a vote. This is a retreat we're just discussing. Um but Carol and um Amy both thought that that some of the themes that you have brought up are present within the our values section. >> If we show that like how we're doing those, you know, that's why I'm saying I don't think there's a lot of awareness around this. Like everybody in this room knows it because you guys live and breathe it, right? And that's great. But I think it's really just a matter of how do we communicate that and how do we really bring those values front and center in all of our communications and at the board meetings and just like really continue to like message and message and message and message so that becomes like they
260really care about this. We are kind and safe. We act with integrity. We you know we embody one how and what does that look like and how are we seeing that in the district. I think that's the stuff where just to know that we really have eyes on it and it's not just a statement that came out of a strategic plan is is the key. >> Yeah. Okay. I agree. Steven's statement about the community part made me kind of open my eyes a little bit more. So I agree. I don't know if we need like a whole poster. I don't think we need a poster of something. >> I changed my mind. I do, but I do believe we need to communicate in other >> frame. Well, I'm I'm thinking if if we want to
261be cohesive and that we show what we stand for, I think every school should have it have something on the wall that says we stand for these these ideals in this district. I don't see anything wrong with that. I think if you look at the value statements, there are three very specific value statements in our strategic plan that are really focused around people and and you know, people, relationships, they deserve our attention every day. We are kind and safe. We act with integrity and accountable for the things that we say and the choices we make. Words and actions matter. And then the to to Carol Lee's point, the the one howl piece at the very bottom um you know those those value statements I think are what you're referencing when you say forward facing and
262it's about getting that message out there and sharing those within our school and making them very visible and a part of our our our work every day. Um, I think I think there's natural um, you know, um, connection there to those statements. And what I think probably is what maybe the board feels like is is is lagging or not quite there yet is we're just getting the lift of our strategic plan for the 2526 school year. So you you will begin to see and hear uh, of these groups and and the work taking place uh, throughout this year and the next five years. Um, and that work is going to evolve. Um, we're going to see some things that go well. We're going to see some things that, wow, we didn't anticipate. And we got
263to we we got to make some adjustments in in some of our action steps. I mean, that's what a good strategic plan is. If we achieved every goal within the first year, then we're not stretching ourselves. And so, uh, you know, it's just one of those things that this work will will evolve over time. And uh but those three value statements are about the people and we're an organization of people. >> Well, couldn't we post something like that, you know, at the entrance of every school to show are united in that way? >> Yeah, I think we absolutely could post our value statements. >> Yeah, like the bottom I'm not sure how many people in uh French South Middle are interested in our um strong stewardship requires long-term planning smart systems. >> No, the ones
264he just listed, >> there might be some seventh graders. how you get through high school. >> Yeah, exactly. But like anyway, so we don't need to but there might be something simple that >> I like what he said. I like what he said >> that we can we can kick around if you want to kick that around. >> Yeah, I think we can definitely work with communications and and figure out something that >> you walked in the door and there it is. >> I agree. That's awesome. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Uh I want to make sure so for Ron um and for Jane um during this last conversation I just want to make sure we heard from you as well. Is there anything else you want to share, Ron? So Ron is sitting as far
265from me as possible now. Not on purpose, but it makes it harder maybe to catch eye contact. Was there anything else, Ron, you wanted to share? >> No, I just want to say that this is the strategic plan for the school. It has our values. It has our mission statement. It has measurables. That is what your performance is going to be evaluated on. Everybody knows it. So >> I don't want to micromanage what's processes they want to put in place to achieve this. >> Okay. Just achieve it. >> All right. Um >> that's so easy. >> So director Pushkar is going to share something. >> No, I I don't have a lot to share. I just say that I I agree with Ron's statement and I agree with your statement, Stephen. Our core values are
266already there in our strategic plan. So >> Okay. All right. Well, thank you. Um it is 12:39. That was the last part of our um prepared conversations. Um is there anything else Mark or I'm sure we're all all okay uh ending early, right? But is there anything else you want to share while you have all of our attention? >> Um >> nothing that nothing that I had prepared for. And uh you know again um >> just look forward to continuing to work with this uh this amazing team and you know all of our teachers and staff across the district. Um you know we're two weeks away from uh having kids back. Uh we as I shared with some of the board yesterday um we had an amazing first week with our new teachers and I
267got to tell you it's always awesome to see all these people and you know one of the things that I do is I ask them to kind of share with me. I I like to see the hands who's a firstear teacher and and who's new to the district. And we always have a a very good mix of veterans coming to the district and brand new teachers. And one of the things that I just don't ever think you you can take lightly is um even if you're a veteran, you're new. You're learning and and when you come to a new place, you're you're kind of putting yourself out there. So, you know, our our patience and our work with all of our new people. Um, you know, I know Miss Simkin certainly champions that uh we
268put a lot of time, effort, and energy into um having staff come to the district and it is our goal to continue to uh retain those individuals, make sure that this place is a great place for them to to work and live. And u you know, just excited for that. We will have all of our teachers back uh next week. So, we'll, you know, we'll have almost 3,000 people back next week. So, things will start to hip hop around here. We are ready. We are looking forward to it. Uh, and then August 18th, absolutely ready for just over 16,500 students to return to this district. So, we are we are looking forward to that. Thank you. >> Wonderful. >> I have a point of personal privilege. Stephen, when are you ready? >> Sure. >> Are
269you ready? >> Yes. >> Okay. I don't know who's in the room right now, but I just want to I just want to share with you that the last three months have been a a lot. But I want you from my personal heart to know that I value you and I see you and I I know that you are amazing and awesome. And as we get ready to start the new school year, I know I'll be getting back into my classroom in like a week. And I I I might be a little bit more distant because I'm a teacher, too. But I want to just say that you guys are absolutely amazing. And uh thank you from the bottom of my heart for helping me learn all of the things that that this crash course
270has been in, you know, being a board member. Um and I respect you all very much. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. Um my last thing I just want to share is just a thank you. Um this is a Saturday. This was like your yearly retreat. Um just wanted to name um Dr. Amy St. John, Glenn Hancock, Lisa Simpkins, Jennifer Joles, Mark Delaney, Jane Hepler, Michelle Jones, Scott Goen. We had five people here from teachers union who care enough about schools and students to be here on a Saturday morning as well. So, I just wanted to name um everyone. Mark Ponder was called into San Francisco on work and so he was going to be here but could not. But I am very thankful for director Oli and Director Kushkar to also be joining
271us online as well. Uh once again showing all of our shared commitment to the betterment of the district. So with that um do we have to do the whole motion to adjurnn or anything like that? >> How this we don't have to make any adjourn. So um what do you call this like the uh the Irish Dubai? nothing like that where you don't say goodbye to anybody, you just start walking away. So, thank you all for joining us as well. Thanks. Thank you. Bye. Bye. >> I think we need to call it something besides a retreat. Yeah.