Hanover School Board 1/14/2026

001Good. You guys are the best. Thank you. >> All right. So, um, agenda review. >> Anything to add or reorder. Um, tonight's agenda is pretty straightforward. We've got the ELA program that we are going to vote upon. Um, you have the budget hearing and adoption, which we'll also vote upon. and then the warrant articles we will so vote upon. Um so as always we'll start with members of the public who may wish to address the board. Um typically this is for items not on the agenda. Um but I also recognize that the hour can get late. So this is open open floor. If there are any members of the public who would like to address the board, you can come forward, state your name and where you live, the town you live in. Um and

002you have three minutes. in that. >> Yep. So, come on up. I don't >> I just want to clarify if this is items that are not on the agenda, is there a time at the agenda items? That's >> You can do that. You absolutely. We'll open it back up then if you'd rather. >> Sometimes it gets long. So, we we want to give people who are like, I've got five minutes to say my piece, but >> patient fifth grader. >> Excellent. Who is also welcome to speak. [laughter] Seeing no public comment at this time, we will move right on into our agenda. Uh oh, anyone online their hands raised? Thank you. Okay. Um so we're going to kick off with the ELA program. Um and we had a pretty extensive >> Yeah, we had a

003pretty extensive presentation on the LA program um at our December meeting. Yes. >> Yes. Um, and then I know uh there were also folks who were in attendance tonight who saw another presentation about it at um our coffee uh the first Monday back from break. Um so I I think we I'll open the floor up for Lauren first and then if there are questions about the ELA program. >> That sounds great. And I'm going to stray just for a moment to let everybody know that um we now I'm helping with tech now here uh the district and we now have public Wi-Fi after hours. So if any of you have not access that public Wi-Fi, you can go to um your computer settings, take a look at the available Wi-Fi networks. You'll see something called

004SAU70 guest after hours. It's a self-registering setting. So you will have to scroll down. There's a field that says username and password. You don't have that, but click on the blue button that says register and you should be able to sign yourself up. That gives you access to the internet here. Um, and you can also get on Simly to follow along. That being said, um, as we move through the ELA program, just wanted to remind everybody here that per policy, uh, when we have a new curriculum adoption or changes to the curriculum, we have one board meeting where presentation is given and discussion happens. And then in the second board meeting, there's a continued discussion and then a vote for approval. So this evening is the second one here and I would be happy to

005revisit any of the things that we've talked about before but I would also encourage you to take a look at the extra attachment. It's called additional arts and letters information followup which contains some followup from questions that have been asked by community and by board both at Norwich and at handover. So included in there we have some ideas for you reconnect here um metrics that we would be using to assess adoption success as well as some Q&A that the questions were asked both by staff members and community members. answers there are written by me, but they're also in consultation with our two ELA coordinators from Doritch and from Hanover, as well as in consultation with our rep from arts and letters. You will also find that there's a text list, some folks who are very

006interested in the type of uh trade books that students would be um reading in this program, and then information about how this aligns with our strategic plan. So with all of this information as well as the previous presentation attached, I would be happy to answer any additional questions. >> One of the things we're dealing with as board members from the community is the question about the science of this. >> Yes. As we probably have heard a couple years ago, there was some national drama over the science of reading and who was teaching and how we were teaching it and all that other kind of stuff. Where does this align on that broadly speaking? >> Yes. So when we think about uh the science of reading, we've grounded our work in you may remember this in

007the previous presentation, but in scar bro. So this idea that um to be a fluent reader that there are lots of different strands that have to be working together to create um this proficiency and there are two main parts to Scarbo's rope and each of those parts contain different strands. When we are looking at uh program adoption specifically for this program we're focusing on language comprehension. This is awkward I could come up without even talking. Um, we're talking about language comprehension and those strands include building background knowledge, vocabulary, language structure, verbal reasoning and literary knowledge. So, this program is designed for language comprehension. The second part of the rope is on word recognition and that's what you are speaking about right now. Um, funological awareness, decoding and site recognition. uh recently most programs that are

008developed fall in one or the other category. They are developed to be really great for language comprehension or they are developed to be word recognition programs. There aren't a lot of programs out there that have both of those things. We did examine some of those programs, but when we looked at the metrics and the rubrics that we had to assess whether they were good programs, they didn't even meet the finalist list. So as we went into adopting this program and looking at arts and letters, we also spoke with the representatives to see were there recommended uh partner programs in the area of word recognition that could fit along with uh the program that they have developed. So we would be pursuing a review of that part of Scarboro's ro of word recognition. Currently the practice

009in our schools is that we use foundations integrity and youthly and that's how we're satisfying right now that word recognition piece that will continue even with this program adoption but this program adoption will really focus on uh knowledge building strand. Does that answer your question? It >> does. Thank you. Um, one of the other things I'd add to that is those pieces of the program that we currently have are consistent across the two schools. We already had that in place that have been building through the past probably three or four years. When I first got here, we started combining that across both schools. So, we've already had that piece in place. So, just a followup question on the um the science or other piece of it. Sure. Um, do we have any sense for how

010much additional that might cost? Would we expect that to be a similar cost to this or significantly less because it's not going to have the big pretty textbooks? I mean, is there any sense for >> or none at all? >> Uh, or a lot. >> Neither of those, right? Yes. So I would say similar to as we were reviewing these programs um you know it was anything from like a lot of uh public um publicly uh available information that we didn't have to pay for all the way up to of course this program which contains a lot of the resources. Um foundations which we use was a very expensive investment you may remember years ago. Um, that being said, if we were to continue with foundations in our program review, then we would be investing

011all of nothing, right? We would be continuing with that practice >> and just standardizing. >> So, I could imagine that we would spend anywhere from the the nothing or just the um the yeah little supplies that we have to repurchase every year all the way up to maybe maybe $50,000 if we were to pick something that was really expensive. >> Okay. Thank you. Um, Dad, >> I just have two quick questions. One is is a followup to um all the the name brand recognition of reading instruction techniques which maybe some people don't have a translation for. And so I would >> my understanding is that this is going to be very rooted in phonics in terms of decoding words. Is that correct? >> No. No, you look at the picture this this Well, I understand

012that part of the rope, but I mean the part about decoding >> Yes. >> is that rooted in phonics. >> The part about decoding. Yes, that would be rooted in phonics. That's that's what I mean because I think that the concern for those who are aware as Ben referenced of the national attention to a very popular way of reading instruction. >> Yes. >> That um Lucy Caukins developed. That is not what we are doing. No, >> I wanted to emphasize that people who listen to the podcast >> um and I just wanted to affirm that piece of it. My second question is about all of the current materials. I'm most familiar with what's available in first grade classrooms. Are those going to disappear? Are those going to stay put? Are people still going to use

013all that really wonderful material that we paid for? And I think >> the decodables you might recall. >> Yes. Yeah. Okay. >> So, yes, to answer your question, those will stay in place. Um they are excellent resources for use in the classroom as well as sending home in book bags in the evening. Um that was a purchase that does align with the science reading will continue to support this. Um so it will be yeah additional materials that our teachers and students can access that support. Yes. >> So members of the public Yeah. Renee. So, can you just introduce yourself and what town you live in and come forward? >> I know it's gonna be getting up a lot. >> Yeah. Um, I am Renee Sergeant and I live in Ann. Um, previously when this program

014had been introduced to me, there was talk about how not all of the program aligns with what the race wants to move forward with. And so there was going to be additional supplementation and the teachers are going to be able to use some of the books or programs that they not programs not books or um kind of units that they personally align with or enjoy. What percentage of this program do you think will be utilized as is versus what will be supplemented? >> Sure. When we think about trajectory of curriculum um in this first year there will be an emphasis on implementation with fidelity defining fidelity as following the program as it is given to us. Um that will be our baseline. Uh professional development will support that as well as our coaches in the

015schools, our school leaders and of course uh the superintendent's office. Um so implement implementation with fidelity. um that will allow us to see through the assessments are given um both formal and informal assessments as well as the statewide assessment um how students are performing with the implementation of this program. Similar to our implementation of our math program, illustrative math, what we've found over the number of years is um that it it will require supplementation. There is no package product that will meet the needs of all all of our learners in this community. Um, so as we determine where those gaps are, then we will make agreements, not sort of rogue sort of uh oneoffs by teachers. We still need to stay in alignment. That's a huge piece of this. Um, but we will make agreements

016and have conversations about other materials, resources or changes that we would want to make to the curriculum program as given. So, for example, um in our implementation of illustrative math, that's meant taking a look at the assessments, um administering them and then determining where students were perhaps not being successful because of the format of the assessment or how something is asked and then making adjustments to the format of the assessment or the wording of the assessment. Um it meant uh taking a look at the sequence for the year of the units, teaching them as laid out, but then examining if for our students given any number of factors, it made sense to teach the units in those particular orders and agree in that particular order and then agreeing on how we may reorder it. as

017well as um using other resources that we have like through the all learners network um math menu practices to supplement what the program gives us. So I anticipate that we're going to see a similar trajectory with this starting with fidelity determining where we have any holes and gaps and then coming to agreements with any changes that we would need to make. What's kind of awesome about this too is that we're not just doing this as our own elementary school, but these agreements are happening across the two elementary schools as well. Thank you. >> Thanks again. Um, and I will just point out so from the earlier presentation, um, Lauren kind of laid out the process they went through to get to choosing this. And one of the options on the table was, hey, you guys

018each have these units, your darlings, that you love, that you've worked on for so long, and that you think work really well for your students. one of the options is we pick and choose the best ones and we implement those across both districts. Do we want to do that? And everyone kind of went, "Oh my gosh, that sounds like an insane amount of work that's not going to be easy to align." And so that but that was one of the options that >> it was taking a look at our brown resources that were in units that were really passionate and invested in right now. Um and then having to come to agreements about what we're swapping, what we're getting rid of, what we're keeping. Um and that was going to be a monumental task that

019there really just wasn't an appetite for and would be a multi-year engagement as well. >> Yeah. >> Versus everybody agreeing here and then moving forward in a similar trajectory with professional development and learning together. Um I I'm kind of recall this is making me recall um I believe there was something about there's a lot of opportunities um for like different topic areas potentially >> and the conversation that like maybe four areas was too much but we could decide three. I'm also wondering if like if that's part of this I don't know that's part of this conversation but can you just kind of refresh our memory what that was that ability to like choose winning? >> Yes, definitely. I forget what the thing was called in the presentation so just give me a second. Um, oh

020yes. Okay. So, if you looked at the slide is slide 17 is called knowledge rich topics and an integrated approach right across the top it has four modules listed for every grade level. Um, uh there can be some overlap in those units. And so one potential roll out approach to in this first year do a little less but do it particularly well was instead of um requiring teachers to work through all four of the modules that uh the ELA committee >> uh along with me and the coordinators across the two schools. We would do the the forward work to make sure that we were choosing the correct units to cover all of the standards in both ELA as well as writing. um and then require that three of those modules instead of four modules be

021implemented in that first year. >> Okay. >> Follow is it up to the teacher to decide which three or four or you like here's the three for kindergarten here's okay. >> Yes. >> So everybody in kindergarten has the same experience. >> Exactly. And that's super important for um the alignment as well as uh you know if if students are uh receiving particularly rich um you know narrative writing in kindergarten we don't want to also think narrative narrative narrative narrative you know year after year and realize at the end that we've completely missed informational because of the units that we've taught. So we will be doing the work ahead of time and saying these are the here's why we're doing them this way. Other questions? Hey, really? All right. >> That's a lot. Sorry. >> I

022thought I could read again, but okay. [laughter] >> You don't have to introduce yourself again. >> Okay, great. >> I just sit here. I'm a J and it feels weird. Um, how what about how this ties in with like the middle school and high schools units? Or is that something that because all of the students in both schools are going to be taught differently that the middle school and high school units are going to have to change as well? >> Yes. >> Does that make sense? >> Yeah, it does. Yes, it does. Um, so important to recognize that we're choosing a program because it aligns with standards. Those same standards are standards that have in K12 in the district. So while we at the elementary school are choosing this program as a vehicle to deliver

023those standards, there are sixth grade standards that will continue to be taught. There are seventh grade standards that will continue to be taught. Same with eighth grade. Um and right now this program adoption is starting is stopping at grade five. Um, we are having conversations, loose conversations I will say for now about what this does look like for trajectory in the future. Um, uh, illustrative math is implemented consistently through the middle school as well. And I think there's potential for us to continue that conversation for ELA. But as it stands, particularly with all of the curriculum documentation work that's happened right now, um because it's one school, it's teams in each of the grade levels and they've done a pretty outstanding job in thinking through their curriculum and documenting it. We can take a look

024at the units that exist and see that it's continuing this standards trajectory um and meeting what students need. I don't anticipate it should not require at this time an overhaul of the curriculum at the middle school or high school. >> Thank you. >> Any other questions? Thank you for those questions. >> All right. Um I know we are voting on this tonight. I'm trying to figure out if that happens as part of our hearing right now. [clears throat] >> Yes. Um, I'll take a motion because we need to have this approved before we finalize the budget. So, I'll take a motion right now to approve that. I move to approve the ELI program as presented. >> All right. And give you a second from Renee. Second from Renee. Okay. Uh, everyone's here. All right. All

025in favor? >> Perfect. Thank you. Thank you, Lauren. Thank you, everyone who worked on this. Yes. Thanks. Hello. >> All right. Um, moving on to the budget hearing and adoption. So, Renee is going to take the lead on this. Um, I know we've had a few changes and just so board members know, um, the and members of the public know the discussion about preschool program is going to be a separate conversation as part of our warrant article discussion. Um, so this is all conversation about the core programming before Yeah. before any consideration of the preschool care program >> and include the >> and includes the elev. Um so I believe my numbers are the ones that match um what is the most recent uh with the exception of those changes with the Dresden discussion last

026night there was a board approval. So, I'm going to look at you to like correct me if uh if and when we get to those points. >> Um >> the good news is those numbers came down a little bit. So, from a tax perspective, it's going to be good news. >> Yes. Yeah. It'll be in the direction that we like to see it. Um but that being said, uh welcome to our budget proposal. For those of you who weren't part of the journey, um there were seven of us on the handover school uh budget committee. Um myself, I was vice chair, Kelly, Robin, um Teresa as our business administrator, Colleen as our HR principal, Nan Parsons, who isn't she might be online, um associate principal, and Dela who may or not very very wonderful minds

027in the room. We had uh lots of iterations and work between all of us and then subsets of us between uh September and now. These dots are just kind of the highlights um of those moments that we were together. So to kind of [clears throat] bring you along, September 10th and 23rd were really talked about what does that initial look at our budget projections or the quick model look like? Um and what do we want to be saying? Here's what our guidelines are for our schools. um to go forth and kind of iterate on. Um at that time we projected about a 15 to 18% increase in health care costs that is now up 26%. Um so we based that our budget guidelines on that number and it brought us to three or 4% with

028a 0% increase in non-personnel costs. So that was the moment in September where Colleen um and Robin and the school staff went and planned out the race school budget based on its 0% increase in non-personnel um really targeting for that increase to be absorbed within we knew ELA was coming our way. We knew there'd be um healthcare costs um associated with that. So that's really what's embedded in that 3 to 4%. Um so then again between October and November lots of work was happening. on November 12th uh was our first celebrator celebratory moment uh and we reached our 0% um and our uh of non-personnel and our 4% goal was met overall but uh we received this lovely uh bill u from our school care um and that we've talked about that many times in

029our meetings so I won't belabor that but uh it means two different things one is that there is there is a bill that is due this year in this budget Um that >> not the one we're planning, the one we're currently spending. >> The one we're currently spending. Yes. Um that was not planned for because it it's a special bill. Um and then there is that 26% increase in healthcare costs which then gave us a projection of an increase of overall 6%. So we went from our lovely 4% goal, yay, to 6%. Boo. That meant we got back to work. Um went to the drawing board. So, um, November 20th, uh, we asked the com we as the committee, um, asked our school leaders to really look at five different scenarios for how we could

030find ways to get back to that 4% number. Um, knowing that we were going to have to figure out how we're going to pay for the healthcare bill in our current school year and our projected increases in the future. Uh, so we had five scenarios that we discussed between December 8th and 10th. Um ultimately what was decided got us to a percentage increase of 3.91% expenditures which was wonderful but then because we had to take into account paying our bill this year and meant that that our essentially our savings account that we need to have at a certain level is now less than what it needs to be. So we have to figure out how to spend or how to sorry how to refill that savings account or what that net assessment is. So that

031brought us back to 8.31% overall. We're trying to figure out the revenue and the expenditure component. So, we really went back as a committee and said, "Okay, it what do we want to do here?" We know that our our staff has done a great job of getting to an expenditure increase, which was within our budget target. And the thing that is weighing us down right now is just the fact that we got this extra school care bill that we have to pay in our current year. Um so ultimately our committee met um we discussed a few different options for handling that and ultimately um I'll cut to the chase. We are we we believe that in the best option is just to pay the bill this year. That also aligns with what the SAU chose

032to do um in their budget option. So we'll get into more details on that as we go. But that was the December 15th which brings us now to January 14th. And that means that our current budget proposal allin um after all kind of the some of the dresdian conversation too um is at 7.6% exclusive of the one. So we'll talk about those separately. >> Um >> 7.06. And so I'll walk down walk you through kind of the breakdown of that. But there's been a lot the story behind this timeline is that we thought we had it and then we didn't. We thought we had it. um which I I recognize is very demoralizing I think for our our staff that have worked so hard uh and so I want to recognize all of your time

033and effort uh into getting to this place. So without further ado um we're going through a lot of stuff. This makes it look like it's longer than it is. I'm just going to keep the summary. Uh costs are up uh driven by healthcare and revenue is slightly down. Um, our goal, which we want to be super clear on, uh, was to attempt to smooth the volatility and taxation as best as possible without sacrificing our key improvement initiatives like ELA, which you've heard of, um, and minimize the impact on the educational experience and programming for our students. Um, layman's terms, that's the the people in the building, which interact with our children every day. Um, so our proposed budget is partially about half driven by new expenses this year that we're projecting. Um, and about half

034from that revenue shortfall. Um, there was a request for headwinds and tailwinds at one point in time. I did my best to figure out what this was. Uh, but the the thing that is that we're benefiting from this year or that tailwind is not something we can rely on every year. So we have a projection of lower student need within ESOL um which we're benefiting from um that being able to reduce a little bit there and special education placements being reduced a little bit uh which we're benefiting from again this year. Uh and we have similar enrollment so we don't have like a major increase in enrollment that we have to be figuring out how to kind of staff for how to pay for that kind of thing. So, um, the big highlight there is

035is more of a cautionary tale is that these are not things that we can depend on every year to be able to capture cost back. And more importantly, if we see a dramatic increase in our ESOL needs mid year next year based on changing number of students or changing population or special education, the board has historically invested in those midyear to make sure we are supporting those kids. And so this may be something that we're benefiting from right now in this moment based on our current projections, but is risk that we could be seeing if the population changes. I just add one please comment on that. So obviously um there are legal >> obligations that we have to meet too. So to be very clear we will meet those right. Yeah. >> Um >> and

036I just want to point out we do have a special education reserve fund. Um we also have a maintenance reserve fund. So those funds exist um for unexpected costs that come up in the middle of the year. So we we know that we have those um so we feel comfortable counting on these as you put it. Um, but because we have those reserve funds >> and I believe the reserve fund for special education especially, we targeted the amount that would be like an outplacement cost like what it like a big need that would be a surprise. We would be able to we believe we'd be able to cover it. Is that right? Correct. Awesome. >> Um, >> I think we've learned some lessons from years past remembering. Um so so we are we do we

037are fortunate that this particular one of our boards that we have those reserve funds to be able to tap into which would help us in those moments. >> Um headwinds uh medical costs common problem everywhere not new and not going to be resolved next year. Um there is uncertainty. I don't know if you've heard about this. There's some stuff going on federal government and state governments. Um and the economy overall is uncertain uh is you know big headwind. I would add to this which is not here. There are a lot of um improvements that need to happen at town level infrastructure-wise uh that are going to impact our taxpayers too which I would kind of wrap into economic concerns and headwinds as well. Um, again, all part of the handover budgets, you know, as a

038town. Um, and then importantly, next year is the final year of a negotiated um, ATA contract or teacher contract. And so, we know that that always has a certain level of uncertainty and so that's going to be coming our way next year as well. I had just one more comment and it's probably going to come up later. Um, so there are a lot of um I know last night Dresden uh conversation we had questions about what what is sort of generating this year-over-year increase that we keep seeing right why is it keeps climbing keeps climbing keep what is generating that and I think you know we talked about contracted um uh personnel costs that you know we don't have any control over right now in this current product year and I know Rene's going to

039talk about that. Um the other thing that you know just to listening to you Rene drives me is that the f the federal and state um legislators are putting in more and more requirements for reporting for um data protections for all kinds of things that cost money and they're supporting at a lower and lower level. And so that also is creating a bit of a funding gap where we have to put in personnel. Um the new technology director that we're going to be hiring next year, [laughter] you know, that there are a lot of responsibilities that that we have now that cost money that are not being funded. And so, and that's something um you know, Ben and I were down at the commissioner of education's office with um a bunch of other um superintendent

040uh chairs, sorry, schoolboard chairs um talking with the commissioner of education about the underfunding of mandates and that that is it's a real problem and each mandate is perhaps not a huge thing, but when you start to add more and more and more, it creates a bigger gap. So, >> she did answer. She said yes. >> Yeah. Exactly. Agreed. >> What's that? >> Agreed. Yeah, >> wonderful. There you go. >> Um, so context here, getting to um our numbers. There's uh some documents that are uploaded to Simly. I tried my best to kind of outline which documents those were. On the bottom of each slide that's associated with it, although I think the numbers are the same, but they're not. So, great. Um, so there's a lot more detail around enrollment and FTE and that

041kind of a thing online, but the high level thing is that enrollment is largely projected to be flat. Um, I believe we may actually have a couple more kids right now than 452. >> We're at 453 right now. >> Two more students arriving in a couple weeks. >> So it's always in blocks. um but roughly similar to next year. Um the student need um we saw as I mentioned decrease in needs within English language learning. Um there is overall strong overall student performance. So I'll talk about that momentarily. Um and then I want to make sure we are talking about our district priorities because these should be driving our budget. Um and if we want to change our priorities then that should be driving our budget. So this is what our current priorities are. Um

042curriculum improvements. um uh obviously the ELA one you just heard of, math, which you know is existing. Uh science happened before um as well. So all those things um are are priorities there. Spanish K through five continued means these are things that we've been doing and are still doing in the future. That's what just your word. Um strings uh in grades four to five. I actually did a a quick look uh online comparison of like what kind of what are schools in in New Hampshire have a strings program and there's extremely few uh and they serve extremely few numbers of kids. Ours is unique and and our strings and band programs serve over a hundred something kids. Um it's really impressive. It's very cool. Uh so we have that that's been a priority. uh curriculum

043enrichments like trips or guest speakers and things like that are still uh something that we value and want to have. Uh I know that I was had the privilege of sitting in on a budget uh conversation with Nan and Colleen and the thoughtfulness around not just saying yes to all the proposals for those field trips, but do we really need this field trip? Does fourth and fifth grade really need to go see the Dartmouth basketball game when it's actually targeted for fourth graders? Maybe we actually just focus that. Um, so it was there were I think really strategic conversations around how to make sure we are thinking about those intentionally. Um, outdoor unstructured play. We've had conversations about recess. Uh, we know that outdoor classroom is a really important thing for our students as well.

044Um, it's a weird thing to have on our district priority list when we talk about budget, but time is money and that actually is an investment that we are making. Um and uh obviously the last two are a little bit more boring but they are our priorities of maintaining our contractual obligations um and balance maintaining high quality and sustainable operations with our fiscal prudence. So all of this leads into um what those budget guidelines were talked about that a little bit before um and our FTEE. So budget guidelines we had talked about the 3 to 4% this is all the information from that September meeting. um our FTEES here. If you look at the corresponding FTE document, which I think is number two, uh assembly, you'll see a decrease in the FTEES of the school.

045That is driven by that decision that was made in December 8th, um with the budget committee to say, what are the trade-offs that we really want to be making to get to our target U budget increase here? Um, and so what it does do is, uh, I want to emphasize here in the full the first bullet point that there's no change in our classroom teacher at TES. That was a really important decision that we, you know, we we put in one of the scenarios knowing that, you know, we want to consider it, but ultimately that's not something that um, anybody is excited about, but we need to be thinking about as a board of do our real classrooms match the number of kids in our school. Um we have the reduction of the one ESOL

046teacher which we already had mentioned um which was due to student need and then we get to these last two bullet points which are that scenario of how do we actually get to a place where we feel like we're being responsible about our budget. Um that led to the reduction of two tutors um and reduction of five unfilled head assistant positions. Uh there is no change to the currently filled EA positions and there are still two unfilled EA positions open. That is the plan. Um what that does is make sure that we are taking into account the reality um of our student needs. We have been and will continue to be meeting all of our student needs um with the staff at hand. Um it will be great to have two of these other EAS

047filled which is why we have them open. um because I think that would take a lot of the burden off of some additional staff that that K pulled in from time to time. Um but we are meeting all our um obligations for our students. Um and the other uh note here with our EAS was that uh they've been kind of an open but then a revolving door. It it hasn't been a consistent position that we've been able to fill and retain. Um and so in some ways this is kind of just a very logical next step because it is there. Um haven't been needing to kind of make it something that we needed for our kids and it was between them bills. Um so that is and I know that if there's questions on those

048Colleen and Robin we can kind of chime in some more about the thinking there. Um, and then the last piece here, there was conversation, if you've been paying attention earlier on, uh, to a district social worker that was going to be spread a quarter across all four schools in the SAU. Um, that position due to budget restrictions, uh, or pressures was taken out of the other budgets and so we also took it out of ours. That is something that was going to be a new position and not somebody that existed on it. So that was uh you can't kind of track the exact that was there and is no longer. >> Can I add just a couple thoughts? Um thank you. Sorry. So the um I think enrollments as as we said are projected to

049stay consistent and as we look out to next year. They're actually expected to go up a tiny bit. So that's part of why we said okay FTEES for classroom teachers make sense to keep. But we are keeping an eye on it. And I think um it's something we're very mindful of our our classroom size guidelines. Um we again it would have been a ride on the line this year. Could have considered that. We didn't think it made sense looking at next year's projected enrollment. Um but it's definitely something we're keeping an eye on for next year. So I wanted to reassure voters of that. Um and I also just um want to caution that what we have effectively done here and it's the right thing to do with unfilled positions. we've cut them because they

050haven't been filled. Um, at the same time, I think it's important that we recognize that that is a revenue cushion, right, that we have been we have had in our budget that we are now responsibly taking out, right? It I mean, if we if we want to build in cushion into our reserve funds, we should talk about doing that, right? But I think it's important to recognize that that's one of the the choices that we're making here is to effectively reduce um some of that unspent um funds, right, that we've had. So um I just wanted to point that out as well for the board. >> Um and I I also want to point out something with this if you're following along the FTE document. uh because we have uh I think Kelly and I

051were also wondering when we were looking at it the the ed assistants are spread across the special education ed inclusion ed assistance and then uh regular education inclusion ed assistance that's just budgetarily how they are all special education needs are currently being met >> and will continue to be met. So um >> do you want questions now or do you want to keep going? really up to you. I don't know. What do you do today? Uh, let me let me get through the thing. Great. >> It may spark more questions. >> I bet it will. I bet it will. >> Um, okay. So, that is this all drives our numbers. So, what are our number? Oh, no. I can't talk. [laughter] Um, I wanted to make sure I put this in because I do think

052it is important for us to to remind ourselves where we are. Um I believe in October, colleague, you gave a really nice summary of student performance. Um I wanted to grab just the quick snapshots off of um the New Hampshire uh Department of Education website. Overall, the Ray School's proficiency is far surpasses what our kind of peers in the state um are at. And so you can see the gray lines where it says target, that's the states. Um and then the things that are on far left um are where the Ray school is. This is 25 um so last year's assessments and it include there's four well here I'll show you there's four levels um and the percentages on the far left are based on levels three and four um so the highest two and

053so I did want to make sure we're celebrating like we have very strong performance overall however as is typical with any school and I think every year um there are always opportunities to improve. Um, and that's where I just kind of pulled a snapshot of all of the um the levels. So, for math in Oh, wow. It's touch back. Um, math, ELA, and science. This, if you're looking at the dots, this is 2021 all the way to 2025. So, you can kind of see how things are moving. um on average there there is opportunity to support targeted students and that's what our teachers do in their meetings and um as they're prioritizing their work. So uh I did want to I not gloss over the fact that there is work to be done and is

054being done. Um but overall we're excited about where is national. >> Can I just mention yes very important um you know one of the things that I think we saw and I'm kind of looking over at you guys. I think we saw that decline in um level four proficiency across the state as well as I recall. So that I mean keep in mind that the test changes every year and so it's hard it's hard to look at it and say well we used to have more kids at level four and now we have fewer kids at level four because it's not the same test year over year. And so, um, that's something I know that our, um, staff is very much focusing on. Um, are we relative to everyone else, are we shifting in ways

055that would suggest we're we're still performing at the same level or are we shifting differentially down? Are we shifting differentially up? And what's going on with that? So, um, yeah. >> Can you explain what level one, two, three, and four are? Like, um, where are our stud edits on there? Are we seeing an increase in their scores based over these? Sorry to interject here over the past four years. >> We we also need to know your name and that >> Oh, I'm sorry. I'm Claudia Louie. Um I I work here as an ad assistant. So I live in Norwich. >> I'm sorry. No, I think that's okay if you want. Level >> basically level four is the highest level of proficiency is distinguished and level three would be proficient. So, we're looking for most of

056our students to be fall in those categories, which ours do. The bottom level, level two, is just below proficiency. And so, we always like to see those numbers decreasing, which is what we start to see with the math score. And we always like to see our level four and level three increasing. We can't talk about special education in this because it's just students overall with the with this data. >> Yes. So, but the level two Okay. And then those those two little gray dots down there would be sort of isolated level one performances. So, we just don't see many of those, which is I think pretty unique, >> right? Um that's very unusual. >> Renee, go ahead. >> Uh I I cherrypicked just two because this is a budget conversation, not a performance one. There

057is a lot more detailing went into by grade level, by gender, >> but it's publicly available >> that Yeah, it is. So yes, we have more detail, but I just want to make sure we're thank you. I couldn't see it from over there. >> No, totally. Thank you for that. >> One other clarification is I don't think New Hampshire has a target for science, which is why there's no list. >> That makes sense. >> Which gives some more insights into New Hampshire. >> That's true. >> All right. If So I wanted to make sure we talked about this though because if we saw a massive drop somewhere that would that would raise some flags of how do we how do we actually address that? I would hope you'd be asking how we're investing in that

058area. Um, and so that's that's really what I want to make sure we're talking about here. >> Um, but yes, further questions we should dig into at another time as well. Um, okay. So, what is the summary? At the very beginning, I told you about half of this is from our expense uh half of the um budget increase is from our expenses. Half of it is from that revenue shortfall. So, our projected increase um in expenses is just under 500 under $5,000,000. Um it is it represents a 2.89. Seems like a lot of significant figures. Um so that it's under 3% increase year-over-year. Um which if you're keeping track is less than our budget target and we worked really hard to get there because we actually had this other cost that we needed to to

059refill. We refill that bank account which is that revenues down point. Um, and so the the numbers are weird here, so I the percentages are weird, so I just did whole numbers. Um, so the total projected decrease in our 267 revenue is that 475,000. Please see simply for additional documentation. if you want to see how those numbers are fully calculated. U but ultimately we are the the driver in that decrease in revenue is the fact that we have to pay that um that $400,000 bill to school care in our current fiscal year and we have to refill that statutoilally. No, but well it's just that from a year-over-year perspective if we if we normally have this amount to carry forward now we have that much less. And so it just >> it's impounding. >> Yes.

060And it looks so it looks there's less money rolling forward on the revenue side. So >> taxpayers are going to have to cover that extra amount. Okay. >> From a year-over-year standpoint. >> Thank you. >> Um the other thought process we had in this is the unfortunate circumstance of if you yourself uh are hit with a bill mid year. Uh so we have to pay this bill. We don't like this bill. We are very much looking at school care as part of our thought process for next year. Um but for now, this is where we are. So that's the 400 about $400,000 of our revenues down component is due to healthcare um this year. And then I did want to point out there is about $44,000 in this catastrophic aid. So there's other bits of

061revenue that we get. It's not going up. As Kelly was saying, there's we're getting less money from the state. Um, and so the projection right now is to the tune of about 44,000 next year. Um, and I and Kelly, this is where I definitely want to lean on you too if we want to for adjust this in any way. But the since our December 10th conversation as we talked about, do we want to be doing something different? Do we want to be using a maintenance reserve fund? I know board the last time we talked, we were like, well, maybe there's this is the right time to use that maintenance reserve fund to kind of offset some of the bigger costs. Um ultimately a couple factors came into play with our consideration and proposal here to

062say no let's not use that one was we know we are going to have maintenance to do this year next year in the future and we know that's really going to be increasing because our uh wonderful administration is going to be kicking off a um kind of long-term capital thank you the word capital improvement um kind of design plan um in the near term. >> Uh and then we know that there's other things. This wall is closed right now, which is great. It's fixed, but we know there's other things that come up. So, we we felt it prudent to not utilize the maintenance reserve reserve fund in a way to just decrease taxation the taxation. Um we are however not adding to the maintenance reserve fund this year. So, we have in years past added

063to that cushion. It's pretty healthy right now. We're not adding to that this year. Um, okay. That gives us our total projected year-over-year increase of just under a million dollars. Um, I said this was going to be short. Sorry. Budget proposal pros and cons. Uh, I hope that you kind of gathered some of this as we're going through, but just to be super clear, some of the things that the committee is thinking of as pros and cons. Um uh we are as a pro we are maintaining a current highquality student experience. The things that we're talking about here actually I would argue with ELA it's improving our student experience um which is exciting. Uh there's no reductions in force that are needed uh with this with decisions we've made um from retirements or closing of

064vacancies and we are addressing the healthc care bill um that in the current year the year we received it which is consistent with the SAU's budget decision. Cons um which I would consider big cons uh there's no under no changes the underlying cost structures. So I already talked about that we are benefiting from kind of some oneoff uh reductions in student need. Uh we have some vacancies that have been unfilled. We are capturing those. We are kind of doing our first step in right sizing I think our budget. Um but it's not changing how we are operating. the costs will increase next year just based on how our contracts are projected to grow um because we haven't changed anything that about how the district is operating. Um that was intentional to get to the pros

065this year. Um we have not invested in infrastructure. So if you read those lovely budget guidelines in September, you would have read that we wanted to consider some sort of facilities improvement that's been wrapped into the capital improvements. um kind of planning that I just mentioned before. So that is not part of this budget that we were hoping to have part of this budget. Um so that will be something that we'll have to be figuring out next year. Um there was also I think from last time um a concerned citizen about the Ray School roof. We have confirmed that the roof was put in 20 2014. Okay. um and does not need a large scale repair at this time. That is not necessarily true for like years and years to come. Um but right now

066all of the any any problems with the roof can be maintained in our current maintenance budget. Um and then uh another con is that I think we are all excited about the social worker and that is not part of our budget right now right now. Um, so those are the pros and cons which do we want to talk about more articles right now? >> Let's wait. Is that is that all we have left at this point? >> Yeah. And then it's Well, there's tax implications. >> Um, let's pause here and see if we have questions. I think we might have question. >> Um, board members first. Are there any questions at this point? Yeah, >> this is not a question, but it occurred to me as you were talking about infrastructure and building needs and

067capital campaign um to go back in my emails and previous board members will remember that in 2023 Kim Hartman did a very thorough presentation on building aid and the degree to which it is is not and won't be available from the state of New Hampshire and it was shared actually with school boards around the state by the NHSBA, but it is a document. I just found it and so I can I don't know what I can resend it to Robin if anybody is interested in that kind of granular understanding of what building aid isn't. >> Yeah, it well just to summarize very high level, it used to be money that the state would kick in if you built a new building. They would they would ship it and that they simply are not chipping it.

068So you want to build a new building, great. you're going to have to bond it and your taxpayers are going to pay for it, >> which is also true in Vermont as well. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, >> um, thank you, De, for that. Anything else from board members and then I'll open it up to the public? >> Thank for doing this after being on the job for a few months. >> The rest of us look bad. >> All right, >> I'm going first. >> All right. You think she's gonna be one? No, >> I only have three minutes, right? So, if you could just state your name and it Thank you. >> My name is Sarah Stewart. I am a resident of handover. Um, I have two children. One's a fifth grader at Ray. One

069will be a first grader next year at Ray. I'm also the library assistant here at Ray. And also another hat. Um, I'm the co-president of the Hanover Support Staff Association, which is the union that represents education assistance, office assistants, and finance assistance. Um u so I'm here tonight in my capacity as a co-president of that uh union. Our members wanted me to share that they strongly disagree with the budget proposal to cut the five unfilled support staff positions at Ray. And though the positions have been unfilled for many years, this is because of the difficulty of retracting and retaining candidates and not because they're unnecessary. Our members, the educational assistants at Ray, feel the strain of those unfilled positions every day. I'm not aware of any specific policy or guideline to determine the staffing levels

070of our EAS, but I can say that in practice, the Ray School has had an EA in K1 classrooms. This year, we have nine classrooms. We have six full-time EAs, and then we have four full-time, four part-time EAs, but they don't make up the difference. We're privileged here to have a student support center. That's not something that exists at every school. Uh we have a director out on maternity leave this year and we've got two of the three EAs that are working in there doing one-on- ones instead of being in the SOC. So those assign reassignments to other places have a trickle down effect to every other EA in the building. The other kind of final thing is that as you can imagine, it's a very rare day when every staff member who works at

071Ray is actually at school. There's they're sick themselves. They have a family obligation or a sick family member, they're doing professional development. And we reassign our EAs to cover all of those openings because it's also really hard to attract substitutes. And so EAS may be called to be teachers but also trying to fulfill their other duties like going out to recess. And from my conversations with our educational assistants um they asked that you look really closely at cutting those positions. We really appreciate that we're trying not to cut current staff, but they really disagree. Our members disagree with any justifications that's based on reduction of student or that the current staff are not feeling any strain or overwork. Um I think it's already very difficult as I said to attract and retain those candidates and

072um I think this will just make it more difficult and we may see further losses. >> So thank you. >> Thank you Sarah. Appreciate that. Um couple just clarifications and then at board number 70. Um >> two minutes 57 seconds. >> That's impressive. Here we go. Um, model contribution. Um, I just want to make sure that that it is clear in what Renee said that the reduction that we're talking about in student need is out of district placements. So, I don't think anyone is saying that we're anticipating a reduction of inbuilding need. Um, and I will say very, this is just me speaking, but um, so so agree that the work you guys do do is incredibly important and you're stretched thin and we would love and for year after year I've said anyone listening,

073please, if you'd like to apply to be an EA, we have open positions. Um, and we would love to fill those and I I think um, you know, we do still have two open, please come apply for those positions. Um, so I, you know, I hear you guys and I think this is a, again, I think you put it as a tidying up of the the fiscal side of things, the the budgetary side of things, not um, a feeling that those bodies couldn't be put to good use if we had people in those positions, right? Yeah. So, >> take them off. >> Yes. >> Very likely never going to come back. >> I hear you. I will point out and and again, I said this, I want to say it very clearly again. Um, we

074do have a special education reserve fund. So, if special education needs were to rise, we have the ability to go back, you know, and make choices and add those. Um, that said, I I absolutely hear I hear everything you're saying and I do want to give board members a chance to comment or um uh ask questions since we do have to approve the budget. So, um yeah, Ben and then Deb. So you're right, Mary, that there's not set policies on educational assistance or ratios or anything like that. And it's partially by design in the sense that this the schools the four schools do not really have standardization metrics on what they do and they all approach it very differently as you may know and as an example none of us are on the board obviously

075but it's my understanding Rob that Mary has at le four educational assistants which is significantly fewer and certainly not a one per classroom anything like that. So they have a different philosophy across that and I I do believe that Norwich points this out to us with some regularity. >> Well, we did not come by these cuts lightly. It took several meetings for board members to come along to the fact that there was an inevitableness to this that we could not avoid. So we did I think it's safe to say we did not want to do it. But I think it was a brute necessity. Ben, >> I was just going to say that I have volunteered not this year but for the last three years in a first grade classroom and can see have seen

076firsthand how critically important it is to have an assistance in the classroom and it I there's no question that while I taught high school for almost 30 years, you don't have to be an elementary school teacher to know the incredible job an important job that ed assistants are doing at the elementary years. And I I can only speak for myself, but I know I'm speaking for all of my board members that we really value that work and are committed to making it happen as best we can. Um the other piece of what you said, Sarah, was the um contract. Um when are negotiations for support? I should know this. >> We are on a brand new contract. So yeah, 20 years. >> Okay. just did. >> Um that's what I thought. Okay. And um teacher

077negotiations will be up next year, right? So these are important things for us to return to in all of those negotiations. Um because I, you know, absolutely if we could pay people $200,000 a year to be EAS, we would be filling those positions, right? And I'm pulling a number out of the sky, right? But I I think you know it's um >> come out of retirement. >> Right. Exactly. So, you know, and and I say that because I I agree with you. We need to we need to be mindful of what is going to help us fill those positions. Right. When it comes time to negotiations. So, um Yeah. Any other thoughts or comments on this? Yeah. Okay. look familiar. >> Tony Perry of Hanover. I'm a member of the finance committee and I just

078had a question about the staffing classroom staffing levels which are staying constant but it also and I understand enrollment um is constant but there is going to be projected to be one less section going from 267 sections to 26 sections. Um but not a reduction in the classroom teachers. Um so I just had a question about that and what student be doing. >> We're not anticipating right now we're considering 27 classrooms based on current needs in different grade levels. >> Okay. So I I looked at the sheet that was provided for today's meeting and it says reduction to 26. Um so does that mean it be less than 16 students? >> Is that the FTE age? Do you know chose >> it's the >> projected enrollment. >> So there was conversation at one point about

079going down to 26 and I'm wondering if that's >> and the reduction of the one feature. >> Yeah, I understand. [clears throat] >> Sorry, which document does anyone have? The document. >> Thank you for the question. Sorry. Thanks Tony. It's at the very bottom. Possible 26 27 sections total 26. [clears throat] >> Oh, thank you. >> Yeah, it it was a possible and we are sticking with 27 section. So that's from that's an earlier >> that's a document that was >> from our earlier meetings that we were considering 26. >> Um so that's that's what that is. >> Yeah follow. So does that mean what would the I'm assuming and that would come in the third grade the additional section and what's reflected on this document >> from that document again as you know at

080the end of the day we would say 26 teachers or 27 teachers and then >> administration depending on who actually shows up day of what makes the most sense right um but yeah I think that was the potential there Other question this point um finance committee would you prefer to share any kind of thoughts now or after we finish going through more articles and such what would be your preference >> uh I had well I I don't think we got down to the tax ratification yet. Discuss the additional board articles. I'll hold up. >> Okay. >> So Rene, maybe at this point just finish off and then we'll >> you're also going to get to the improvements with their cycle. >> Uh yes. Yes. Yes. >> Just for typos, I think there's also a typo

081on the proposed staffing exhibit 2. that second column that's supposed to be tracking changes year over year does not compute correctly in the total. So that total number is off. It should be a negative number and it's a positive number and it's not the right digits either. So there's something just wrong in that. >> True. >> Okay. It should be negative 1.13. >> Which column are you talking? >> It's the second column with the pink highlighted starts with >> 25%. >> Yeah. It does not tabulate correctly. So if anyone is confused by that, you are rightly confused. >> Thanks guys. Ratified. Okay, I'm gonna let let Renee talk and I'll Thank you. >> Oh, sorry. Rene. >> Oh, other Renee. >> Is that we're both in the same >> Okay. I just had um some

082questions that I will try to edit down as much as I can. Um I guess I [clears throat] so the budget group um the information when the board members have stated we considered um lots of different options and we have really thought about and tried to be intentional with our decisions. where the information about how the school is running. What is the source of where that came from? do like in terms of the teachers are fine and the EA staff isn't being pulled in a thousand directions and it's um appropriate to cut X Y and Z because the way the school is functioning um and uh we are not minimizing impact to educational experience and programming like where does the substance of that information, the source of that information, where is that coming from? >>

083I think the key question our leaders. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess I would say our leaders. Um I again I I mean I'm going to push back on the EA piece just because I I don't think we're saying they're not being pulled in 100 directions. I think we recognize that. We've recognized for years they're understaffed. Um and the mechanisms to to improve that are are limited at this point. Um and so you know short of increasing salaries which in a current contract year we can't do right now. Um so you know I I but I don't think I haven't heard anyone say it's easy in EA land. Let's just cut a bunch of people. So I want to be very clear that's not at all what we're saying. I I hear you. And

084I think that um maybe the message was different in a previous meeting that I attended and it's been like weighing very heavily on me which is why I've made a big uh adjustment to my schedule with my small children to make sure that I could be here. Um, and I guess my the the the question is that as a taxpayer, right, last year there was I'm I'm going to say it was a warrant article, but to be honest, I might be using the gu term um to increase the salary for EAS specifically um that passed. And I guess the concerning piece is did the salaries not increase and that's why no one can fill them? Did it not increase enough? Is there some other um reason why the taxpayer voted to increase payment and that

085did not equal more EAS? Like I guess I think that's a big concern as a taxpayer. So, I will answer the easy part first cuz I'm a chicken like that. The easy the easy part is yes. Anything that was voted on is being paid, right? So, that that's the easy answer to that question. I think the harder part is why are we not able to fill those positions, right? Um, and I think there's a lot of pieces to that question and it's it's a fabulous question. Um, I'm going to let Colleen >> and it is a nationwide. It is not it is not exclusive to Hanover. It is not to New Hampshire. It is a nationwide problem. There is not a school district in this country that is over staffed with teachers or ed assistants.

086It's just it's not something that's it is nationwide. Everyone's here actively seeking. I have reached out to local colleges. I have reached out to families. If you've got college kids at home like send them down. So I mean we are actively reaching out to people advertising updating that um >> because it's a nationwide problem. It is not and also cost living here. >> Right. So I was I was going to say that's I understand why we say it's a nationwide problem and previously we were saying look at us compared to all of our New Hampshire peers, right? like um I think that that level of thinking for me personally is not that impressive because you know Hampshire in general um is not the like creme de la creme of education but I very specifically and

087purposely live in Hanover where the homes are incredibly expensive and taxes are incredibly high. um to the point of my job which I have done elsewhere and got paid exceptionally better, right? But our family is choosing to live here because of what handover can provide >> and so it's still I guess it's still concerning. So I guess the question is even if it is a nationwide issue, which I completely understand, my job is also a nationwide issue. I don't think the public defenders office has ever been fully staffed um anywhere uh in the United States either. But and so is the sole issue salary? Are we doing exit interviews when people leave to figure out why they're leaving? Is it that no one can live in Hanover, so everyone's having to commute over an hour

088to get here? Like what is kind of the the crux of that and how are we addressing it in the budget? Because my fear, while I understand that everyone is on board that EAS are important, my fear is when you take a spiderweb that's catching things and you stretch it more and more and more, eventually it breaks. And so the question is how are we going to retain the staffing that we have if if we're not trying to bring in the Calgary and how how is the school and we're addressing these issues? I mean, I think those are those are really important questions and and I I do recognize that when you're stretched thin, when the job is getting harder, that does not help with retention, right? And that does not help with attracting new

089people. So, it it's sort of a vicious cycle in that sense. Um I I'm looking around the board. Yeah. >> I mean, if you're on, we were on the committee that negotiated the EA agreement, right? And these were things that we discussed um were retention and attracting. So we we um and we're guessing I don't work at the school. I've had kids go through the school. Um so we listen and we said structurally what can we do to improve this? So, we've raided the the the steps, if I'm using the right terminology, to get rid of the ones at the bottom, trying to hire people at a base salary, which was elevated because we knew that we couldn't fill all these positions. And then we increased retention for longevity, right? We increased longevity payments because

090we want to make sure that folks who've been in these positions for a long time know how much they're appreciated. Then we explicitly talked about health insurance because we sort of knew it was a coming attraction of something difficult. We didn't know how difficult but um group happens to pay the least percentage of the contribution and we kept that the same. Also recognizing their value to the district. So besides doing those things, those things don't work for every potential new candidate out there. Some care about the insurance, some don't. Some only care about starting pay. Some don't care. I mean that [clears throat] the location is key and some it's not. Um we don't have a silver bullet, but I can assure you that we're trying if that matters and that we do care. I

091mean it's conversation that's worth continuing. >> And and I would say I mean I think this could certainly be a topic of conversation at a future board meeting, right? Outside of the budget conversations. Sounds like that might be worthwhile. Yeah. I also think there's a place for me as a board member who's also a work in public education as a social worker and so often do interface very closely with our um EA teams and um I think there's a piece of this conversation that may not be for the board that is what you were alluding to nor which saying we only have four and some of that is about administration and how schools choose to utilize staff differently and that isn't this body like that to me is about how school leadership to do that

092and there's a place there I think as a parent but I don't know that that goes into work that isn't this body's work in my understanding because we don't do curriculum we don't like that's we leave that to school leadership and so I think there's a place that um there's conversations there potentially to have that I don't feel is my role as a board member um to that >> is the trusted I'm sorry one second but is the trust is I apologize. The trust is that the board decides that they're going to give all of the money to the admin and the trust that however the admin and however long they've been in that role is going to utilize it. >> Well, it's a collaboration based on individual members of admin. The point I was

093going to make before regarding the EAS is that each union is very different in what they want. They're not as similar as as you might assume. And one of the values we've learned from talking to our colleagues is that that particular union really values benefits >> um arguably more so than the other unions. And we that was a point of discussion to which we came to an agreement. We signed a contract. We all signed it up here and we all signed up there and it came and every time it goes up to negotiation that will vary based on our various goals and such and such. >> Absolutely. How unions work, right? Like I I understand that I think and and I maybe um I don't not all of my comments are are so wrapped up

094in EAS. I think that overarching right like that that is what's being cut and so that feels kind of easy discussion um but the overall or over urging discussion um that maybe is uh I think it's very closely tied to budget but I also understand that it could be its entire meeting in the future so make sure you let me know >> it has been several meetings the budget budget committee meeting has met several times on this all puzzles available going back months where that was a point of discussion for several meetings as to what to do there is to do that balance out we want these positions that's why they're open that's why I've been trying to seek them for years but there's also the counterargument that we're floating these unfilled positions for several

095years to look like we're inflating a budget that is not there so we have to do that balance because we people be angry at us rightfully so if we're carrying forward seven unfilled positions for several years >> right as long as there's some sort of like uh investment into why they're >> unfilled, right? Um and I guess sorry the second chunk um talks about shockingly to know the legal obligation for IEPs and by awards and multiple times it was stated like full stop these needs are being met like period like no no debate and again kind of where is that information coming from and who audits whether or not uh independent of the federal agency because the federal I don't even think the federal agency who looks into uh special education exists probably anymore. So

096like who determines what that student services I work with all the schools high school including um overseeing special education department staff um I need for all the students and so as part of the budget build we look at the specific students we have um the service pages on the IEPs that detail in minutes or educational assistant or topology for instruction. And so we look at all that and we calculate okay what's the FTE that we need the the uh magic and challenge comes together we look at schedule and uh we somebody mentioned that you know pulling a current behavioral staff to act as oneonone because we can't fill those needs and those students needs are priority. So we're utilizing other staff to fill those needs. Um and so that's a constant kind of conversation that

097we look at. Um someone else watching us like there are absences so how do we fill that and there are times where uh special engagement teacher is out or head assistant is out and we scramble to try to do the best we can on those days. Um if there's any instances where it's a extended period of time where there's going to be someone out who communicate with families and say hey this person's out expected to be in two weeks here's how we're going to try and fill that lead. Parents always have the right to meeting or if they're concerned enough they can file a complaint which will then lead to an investigation looking at are we providing services? All right, I'm gonna Yeah, go ahead. >> I just wanted to say thank you, Renee. Uh,

098as I'm kind of just listening here, I'm reflecting on the fact that this is, you know, the first time many of you may be hearing what we're sharing and it's like a hundth time that it's gone through my brain. And so things that um I might be sharing that feel like, oh, we've talked about this before, I recognize are are big >> um and are really worth the time. And so I just want to thank the board for also kind of entertaining that because I do feel like all your questions were really important and we need to be able to answer them in a way that you feel like you have some level of clarity or know how to follow up. >> Um because I think that that is you're not the only one I'm

099guessing that would have that. So I just want to acknowledge that as I think as I'm hearing everybody else. >> Thank you for that. I agree. All right. Break time over. You're >> probably just logistics. Um uh do you want to just >> go ahead pull it up and talk about it? Are we going to dig in prek right now or do you want to do >> um prek will come after? So I mean have you skip that but go ahead and do um whatever wherever you work. >> Um okay so prek we're just gonna >> so skip war articles for now and we will talk about them uh after we talk about tax implications and then the next steps. Um, okay. And then hear from the U. Thank you guys. >> Thank you guys.

100Great. And I thought I was trying to get um I said I didn't get that when I um what we're looking at for that revenue for and over assessments should still it should still be the same. Um she's a little bit uh on Simly. This is document 10 by the way. This is a screenshot which is why it is fuzzy. Um so your can you actually just talk through this? Yeah. In a more way than I can talk through my first year doing this whole thing and taxing stuff as negle. Um so the number assessment um with the FY 2627 we had um 2526 we had 13 million 93674 we were assessed and then um after the calculations and changes that we made um my number I actually had was 14506 251 for the handover

101assessment um resulting in a change of remain 100 112 and 577. Um that's making it an 8.31%. And then um the dres adjustment um again the 2526 going back the act of 19 million586 and 251 and then again after changes of j and everything else is going back um even with the reduction we were at assessment because ours is 69.838% 838% we're looking at 21,135313. Um that would be change increase of 95 and that would put us at um 7.91. Okay. So document 10 does not say that either. So neither of those documents are correct. Is that right? >> Yeah. I like that one. I didn't I read last script. >> Okay. >> I missed updating that one. >> Okay. >> I mean it's it's like point something% difference. It's Yeah. >> I had said

102we had said >> that we would expect the number to go down. >> Why did those numbers go up? >> Is this service numbers go up? >> Um the union contracts not in there. the 101,000 that would be um assessed and everything else. Um but we reduced from again from the changes and everything else and um and I don't know if I missed another updating or something but the changes of DS that kept going up and then we went down and everything else and when we got done last night um the total net assessments was 30,49121 um and of that share again Um, I'm wondering Teresa if perhaps the percentage split was not correct in this original document and now we've corrected that. I don't know. It sounds like >> it's not the direction that

103we anticipated. >> It's not the direction. >> I think that we are going to have to do a deeper dive on this. However, it this is our voting um time. So, this is very smooth >> honestly. >> Yeah. >> Well, we have an emergency meeting schedule. >> Let's move on from this slide >> because it's not accurate. Um I mean I will say I think you know >> it's it's in the seven to 8% range and that it sounds like is not changing. You know we so we cutund and >> we cut 200 53. >> Okay. Thank you. last night >> right so that would represent not I don't >> was basically 177,193 or percentage of looking at the again they're looking at the 6983 >> part of a percentide then okay >> their share

104is the uh 30.162 [clears throat] >> so it's a part >> is this working on a base of 11% supporting right now. >> It was but then when we reduced it down so then I reduced >> since last night it was originally based on 7% okay in the assessment. >> So we we were hoping that if this was based upon seven the 70% budget that we were the working draft version and we went below that. >> Yeah. or we were hoping that this was also going to be reduced. >> Yeah, I'm not I definitely have to go back and look at it though. I'm not sure. >> Why don't you take while we talk about improvement? >> So, improvements for next cycle. Uh this uh slide has gone through a few iterations. I tried to

105update it with some feedback uh I think that the board had as we were talking about this last time. Um but just kind of bring everybody up to speed. Um we first and foremost want to improve that quick model for Renee. Uh it is like our first kind of projection or look at what we think the budget's going to be the next year. Um there's ways where we could improve it to be more accurate and also look multi-year out which gets into the second bullet point which is uh some multi-year modeling. We know we have contracts that are multi-year. We know that there's some assessments good or bad or assumptions good or bad that we can make about certain increases in costs over years. We know that there's going to be increases uh that we

106would want to have for in capital improvements. Where can we fit that in? What what makes sense? Um, so we want to be able to actually look more um, strategically in the out years and be able to articulate that they would have expected changes that we're having these conversations. It's, hey, remember that thing that we thought was going to happen, it happened and here's what it looks like. Um, third bullet point uh, here budget to actuals tracking. Um, I think similar to this kind of you know EA conversation or like tutor conversation, what are the things that we are that we budgeted? what are the things that are being expended and what are the things that are not and how does that really work well I think that is uh we don't have um we

107can improve that process as a board um there is a strong desire in bullet court for alignment discussions I think that um this is a not new to this year we have four districts in our SAU uh just by the way we're structured um it is inefficient for our administrators it is inefficient for for it's just inefficient. Um even though we know that there are reasons why this is how we are. So really want to be putting thinking to like is do we really need to continue this way or is there there's there's some alignment some efficiencies that we can gain um to address the fact that we've had similar conversations four times. Um and I think Robin and Teresa have been pulling their hair out [laughter] with those kind of questions from all this.

108So um let's let's decrease those repetitive messages. Um, and there's also these siloed conversations. I think we're talking about how do we get to this budget target and this one and this one and this one when really actually the conversation needs to be more high level. We are one SAU. How can we best serve our kids in our SAU? It may not be by looking very deeply and scrutinizing this one $500,000 line. So, let's look um and be more strategic with our time. Um, pimple fun here overall earlier start. Uh, this is partly on me. I will own this. I was on vacation in August because when I joined the board in April, I did not know we had August meeting. Um, so there we are. Um, but either way, I think that it the

109earlier start is important, but also um I think the the first two bullet points will make that earlier start or even September start frankly just a logical place, more logical place for us to begin. um some points that I I think I captured from our December 7th 10th conversation um at the board. Uh there is a need to circle back with the public about decisions that were made in previous cycles that are impacting this cycle. Um and so just hey reminder we had voted on X and that is what it looks like here. So for example um I know middle school but that's the easy one like last year Warren article we're create a new sports program great that was its own thing. now it's in the budget. So that means the budget is increasing

110this year for that particular line item because it didn't exist last year. Um and so it just looks things can look won lumpy um in predictable ways. We just need to be able to communicate that salary decisions and things like that are also part of that mix. Um which is where it meant the SA level. Um the uh other piece here about staffing and enrollment in that 26 versus 27 conversation. Um we it really need to be looking at reviewing staffing alignment uh with the swings in enrollment or lack thereof of swings um to keep an eye on the changes uh in needs. And if we're downward again next year, we really must consider a reduction in classroom teachers to match the staffing to enrollment. um we need to be thinking about that much more

111directly. Um and then other ideas to be based on reflections tonight. So that's where we are. I think the last thing is just loading with members of um so I would love to invite the finance committee to to weigh in. I know we haven't talked about the preschool word article yet. Um, I would actually appreciate hearing your thoughts on the rest of it first and then additional thoughts on the preschool word article act. >> I sitting for a while. Thank you. >> I'm Greg Snder, chair of the Hanover Finance Committee, live in Hamilton. Uh I I would uh let you know that uh the Annover Finance Committee has been in the process of deliberations on uh the budget process for the Hanover School District and in fact we're going to uh be meeting again tomorrow

112to u help us to uh come to a consensus on our position regarding handover as well as uh dress and and be able to devel velop our position statement. So, this is not something that has been finalized. Obviously, we'll need to nail down the tax rate situation, but what I can tell you is that [clears throat] so far um we are supportive of the budget that is being discussed in so far as as you have taken a an approach uh to make a good faith effort to accommodate the major headwinds. in particular the the health care costs. U you're [clears throat] doing that without materially affecting the uh core educational program. And so therefore the 7.06 uh that you are proposing is something that we are generally supportive of because we see the reasons for

113getting there. you have nicely laid out within the document that you've gone through to tell the story so we can we can understand what what is happening and in that would that's our current opinion. We also um are in favor of the improvements that you're talking about. Um obviously plus the review of the healthc care school care relationship would be a primary thing that you can add to that and it's especially in light of the fact that the the town has a different uh healthc care situation than schools. >> Yeah. So theirs is much better actually. >> So that's that's where we are today and uh we'll see if there's some more information about tax rate and I'd invite my colleagues to ask any further questions. That's that's what we stand. >> Thank you. Thanks

114for >> Thank you guys for uh your patience with getting documents a little later than in years previous. I know that's >> you understand the transition. So, >> we had a few of them this year. >> We came through before the town. So, >> um, thank you guys. Um, so I'm going to look at board numbers now. We are at the point of voting. I don't know if we have a number that we can vote on right now. Do what do our board members thinking about that? Let me just ask this. Philosophically, are we okay with the cuts that we have come to the final, not the final dollar amount perhaps, but the the planning and the the package that has been put forth? >> The budget has presented by >> budget [laughter] has few

115presented. >> Yeah. As beautifully presented by Yeah. Um the exact number are board members feeling comfortable voting on that or would we prefer to hold off on that exact amount until tomorrow the special meeting looking at >> 15minute meeting >> right well hopefully fixing up >> we're not warmed for handover >> we are tomorrow we are handover I thought we were warmed for >> Kelly took that initiative bravo Oh yeah, I approve. >> Um and just so everyone knows the reason for that um warning of a special meeting tomorrow is because we are still waiting for ratification of the service staff agreement >> from their side. So we will have to vote on that warrant article um hopefully tomorrow. We're hoping they'll be able to ratify. >> It'll be at Marian Cross to align with

116the Sting Norwich at 6 and 6:15. >> That said, my preference would be to vote on the budget tonight. Do we have an updated number, Teresa? >> Um, that that is the number that I'm still computing. >> This is the number the 16,96,54. Yes, that is for the operating >> Yes, >> the operating budget. Okay, board members >> articles >> without the board articles. Board members given the documents you've had in front of you that the documents have not changed. >> Can we look at that number? Is it in your presentation? >> It is in the uh assembly actually in the action recommendation. move to approve the 2026 budget in the amount of 169. >> My concern about the number is for the tax rate number which is the Dresden contribution to that slide. It's

117not the handover, >> right? Which doesn't actually impact. >> We should be able to vote. I thought you were saying we were going to the tax rate side. We can't right now. >> No. >> Okay. >> Perfect. Okay. Okay. Let's do it. debt. I move to approve the 2026 27 budget in the amount of 16,956,54 as presented. Is there a second? >> I mean, where is that $16 billion >> discussion? Is that you? I never miss >> you. Say the number again. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Tony Barry and Hanover. Um the sorry >> proposed budget on exhibit six >> is higher than that. Is that were there changes made sub the detailed budget? >> No, six is with the bioraph >> it's from January 5th. >> So I'm looking at exhibit nine. That top line

118before the warrant articles I believe is the right number. Is that what you're looking at also? >> I see that number. I'm just wondering why it's different from the number of six >> 17 million41 >> the 17 million41 and 29 is the bottom line when you take right >> and you add in um the uh >> operating budget along with the 75,000 which is already incorporated into that budget detail at the last 75,000 and then um style risks are already incorporated ated in there but still formality. So that 9975. So if you take those three numbers you'll get 174129. So that should be what articles two and >> and the others that have not yet been inputed but >> it's just it's just the handover budget warrant article 2 and warrant article 3 gives you

119that 17049 number. >> So thank you for the question. So technically would we be more thorough if we had if we took a larger number? >> We don't get to >> or do we have to do it based on articles? >> We're getting there. >> Perfect. >> Okay. So we have I have motioned and my second is there any more discussion? We're in discussion phase. So yeah, any more discussion? Okay, seeing none, I will take a vote. All in favor? All right, budget voted for handover. Renee, >> thank you. Well done. Teresa, thank you. Colleen, >> thank you all. >> Robin, Lauren, Brad, thank you. [laughter] Um, I forgot people. Everyone else, thank you. Um, okay. Court articles. So, um, you have the, as we saw last night, you have the warrant article draft. I

120will point out the personel at the end is old and needs to be fixed. >> Um, I am the chair, which is got that one right. Um, but Deb is not the vice chair. Marcela is the vice chair. And I'm also Bacon Nelson, not Baskin. >> Well, that's on you. But >> um >> we also have need a different clerk. >> And we need a different clerk. Yeah. Yes. So there are a couple things. >> We did email Ryan about that because I actually don't have that information on the clerk. So we didn't email her. >> Okay. >> Um >> that that those are those are like details that can be figured out. Um but I wanted to point them out for the purpose of note takingaking. Um so the articles that you see here,

121many of them are every single year. Um the moderator, the clerk, the um $75,000 for the Bridgeman Fund um which is tax neutral. um the [clears throat] uh schoolboard officers. Um and then you see a placeholder for that um service staff agreement that will hopefully be ratified tomorrow hopefully. Um we have verbal approval on that. We're just waiting for the ratification to be able to vote on the one article. Um and then our budget which we just approved. Um and then that brings us to article six which is um if everyone is okay with the others I think what we'll move on to discuss. Um so you'll see this number has basically doubled from the last time that we talked about the preschool program. And the reason for that is that we um as a

122budget committee, as we were talking with Red, we recognized that if we're going to do this thing, we want it to be a sustainable program that is going to go on into the future. So, we did not want to be coming back to voters next year and say, "Oh, okay. So, now to keep the program, to grow the program, it's not going to fit into that little room next to the office anymore. Now, we need to add um a a portable building." Okay. Um, so we wanted to um put this forth to voters in a way that was honest and transparent about what the ongoing cost of this program. Um, which we all I think you know we've had these conversations. I think we're all on board with the wonderful benefits that a prek program

123could bring to our community. We know that many uh public schools, most public schools in fact in the state have some sort of prek available. Um you know in conversations in the budget committee, we've also recognized that most public school programs don't have a full foreign language program. Most of those programs don't have a string program. So, you know, there are trade-offs, there are balances, there are things we've chosen to have. Um, so you know, we've had all those conversations and in putting this forth, we wanted it to be um, if the board chooses to put this on the warrant, we wanted to be a transparent um, all-in cost that would make sure that we're preserving current educational programming um, without impacting her. So that's why the number has gone up. It includes a portable

124classroom. That's the the difference. >> Okay. Did I summarize that right off? >> Yes. Okay. I think the only thing I would add is also in this kind of true cost of the program is um we didn't include any offsets that we conversation about the path to all possible tuition for students. >> Yes, that is correct. And you do have I think the last time I looked at this, yes, we have kind of all the possible iterations of the program in that document. So, thank you guys for completing all that >> and that has been updated with the module module. Yes. Yeah. So, thank you. Um, so with that, um, I would happily entertain any board member questions or comments first and then, um, questions from the public. Um, I will just point out so

125I don't forget to say it again. Should we choose to put this onto the warrant, um, I don't think that the wording is correct because the way it's written right now, if I'm reading it right, it says we're going to basically ask taxpayers for 427,000 every year for this. Am I reading that right? I'm just concerned about the wording of it. But I'll let you guys I I think we should >> put a pin in that. It was the article should say about the actual program itself >> would be ongoing. Got it. Okay. >> Um so questions, comments from board members. >> Clarifying question. Yeah, >> with the um module because you know the growth conversation does that mean that we're still looking at the same number of students for a first year classroom or

126was the idea that you would also start with larger number year one >> so same good question same I think was the idea >> yes >> and then throwing it into the second year more seamlessly with extra space >> yeah just a general question about the modular classroom So I guess more the logistical things like where would it be located? Does it have a bat facil? You know, all those things that would keep me up at night if it wasn't true. >> Right. You're an expert in modular. That's an estimate of the cost for a fully functional. >> I think the idea would be the tax. Yeah. >> Meet the needs of our preschool. Can I just add the the one thing the reason is because the the I think initial vision just to kind

127of bring up everybody up speed was that there's that band strings room um next to the office where that was like a contemplated area. We've all discussed the importance of band banned strings how that has been a priority for us and continues to be. Um we can talk about trade-offs if we decide but I think the modular classroom was because some something is has to shift. We want to be true to make sure that if the shifting has to happen anywhere, we want to make sure these preK kids that we're investing in had a home. Um, so it's not that like the banded strings was to be preserved in that. >> Ridiculous clarifying question, but we are in the music room right now. Why is man not in the music room? >> Yes. Yes, one

128thing I can share um institutional knowledge about conversation that we've had about that. Um the room that we're sitting in now is a generous amount of space for music class and absolutely could just house the general music classes and that is a schedule that is from the beginning of the day to the end of the day. There aren't moments during the day where we could say, "Oh, no music classes are happening. Therefore, we can use the space for band and board strings. When we close this door here, you have probably heard in the past if anything is going on on the other side of the door, you hear it. So, to have competing um band and strings along with general music classics happening at the same time in the space presents another challenge. There have

129been conversations in the past about do we make this wall permanent one? Just something to think about for the picture as well. Do we make this permanent um on the other side? So say we did make this permanent. Great. We have a you know sound contained place here. We have a sound contained place sort of halfway on the other side because you'll notice that on the other side even if there's a wall here there's this lovely stage that we sometimes open up. Um if it's closed off it has uh I don't know what you call them. We'll just call I can't think of the right word but like gi ginormous boards. we'll call them gardinor sports uh that separate the music room from the gym and they are definitely not soundproof. So similarly if you're

130having strings and band happening there um and PE is playing one of their exciting warm-up songs to get kids running around the gym. Uh those are also conflicting issues there. So if we were to use this space, you know, one potential path forward is soundproofing each of these and that is an investment, right? Install a permanent wall, close off the stage and um not have the opportunity to open it up for which is challenging things like performances um and or our fifth grade uh step up day. But those are things that have been considered in the past when it comes to the conversations about this room in this space as it's currently set up. >> And I know the risers are also something that has got discussed and yeah, >> thanks. >> Yeah. One other

131um piece that I'm remembering from our conversation with the budget committee with Sony was that um 200 that $22,000 500 whatever it was for the modular classroom. Um, we were like, well, is there if there is another opportunity to build a structure, build a permanent walls, do something that's separate or something else within the building's kind of envelope. >> Um, is that $200 something thousand enough? And he was like, yes. So >> it I just wanted to there's like a lot of ifs here, but like if we decide to put this up and if it gets voted in >> and there's not a modular classroom, that doesn't necessarily mean we haven't utilized those funds to reconstruct a space that is appropriate for those kids in the school. And so we did talk about those trade-offs

132with that money as um as we were talking about the modular classroom. It wasn't just like must get, >> right? We also talked about putting banded strings in the modular space and keeping kids in. So all those have been talked about. Yeah, there >> I wondered if there is a sense of the ongoing maintenance cost and there are no utility costs indicated on this spreadsheet for that modular classroom. I assume it must be heated and it will >> use electricity above and beyond what we currently there will be additional water usage as well. Um, do we have a sense of that cost because it doesn't seem to be flushed out here? [laughter] >> That wasn't included in this estimate. >> No would be your short answer that >> other board questions or thoughts? Yes. >>

133Then I I think I've asked this before register to answer. So this would not be this is matching the school year right so approximately 9 10 months >> correct school school year schedule school >> okay hours >> and so at 5,000 each so that' be ballpark 500 a month assuming 10 months right I'm looking at a tuition of $5,000 >> that's but that's not there's no tuition costs that I >> the big number. >> So that's the full cost, no tuition, >> right? And so are we are we debating or discussing option one versus option two on any of this? >> We absolutely can do that. >> Option three >> or option three. We the options are here for you guys to discuss them. Um, I think as a budget committee, we wanted we wanted

134to be able to capture all, you know, what would it look like if we had So, so part of our conversations with members of the public who came to coffee hours, for example, um, or to these meetings were really touching uh, desire for those first spots. We have 15 16 spots to offer the first year for those spots to go to students who are on free and reduced lunch, students who are speakers of other languages. Um it was really I mean and these were parents of preschool age page kids who said honestly as much as I want my kid to be able to take advantage of this I don't think my kid should be first in line. I think these other children should be first in line. Which was wonderful to hear when we started

135thinking about okay what does that look like from potentially recoup for potentially recouping costs? those kids are probably not going to be paying tuition, right? Um and so that's where we kind of said, well, to be conservative in our estimates, we want to not count on revenue in that in at least one of the models, right? Understand what would it look like if we were offering these slots to kids who were coming from families who would not be uh paying much if if any. Can you tell me the history of this planning idea? Because someone had mentioned that this has been sort of a topic of somewhat ongoing conversation for a long time. And so I'm just wondering how this all >> came together for this particular budget cycle because the timing is really odd

136to me and feels quite uncomfortable honestly. this particular timing, this particular budget year, which has been, I think, even with my limited time on board, way more painful than previous budget cycles. >> So, I'm going to let Rhett answer that. I I will just say um I know it's been going on. It's sort of in the planning stages behind the scenes for a long time. This is sort of the first time that a formal proposal has come to the board. And I will just say when it first came to the board, there were a lot of things that weren't expected to be painful this year that have since become painful. And you know, I I will say Rhett, you have been wonderful and saying, "Guys, if this is not the year, it's not the year,

137right?" Like I I know Rhett's not like >> heart leading on the floor like you've got to do it this year, right? And he believes in this. He thinks it's important. I know that it's feeding for you but uh I I I have appreciated in conversations with you that you know you were also mindful of the fiscal pressures. So um but would you like to talk some brief summary? Um >> there was a presentation back in uh October. Uh so really I would say the catalyst for this is um as a public school for students with IEP needs, we're required to meet those needs um starting at age three regardless of whether or not we have a preschool. So currently our students have special education needs between three and five. We have our service providers

138um go to private preschools and provide services for them there. and we often pay tuition for those students to attend private preschools um because they require structure of high quality preschool programming in order to build their skills and be right. So, uh I'm the director of student services. So, that's my primary focus. Um so, for a number of years, we've looked at wouldn't it be great we could work with these students in our school. We oversee the programming. we're not relying on other private preschools in the area. Um, our staff can stay here and collaborate with the teachers instead of popping in for 30 minutes and then they're gone and we can't really dictate and control how well those services are carried. Um, so that's kind of why I've been involved uh more like in

139line with a structured approach to it. Um during the 2425 school year, we had a preschool committee form and that included um teachers from this school, uh directors and early childhood educators from private preschools in the area, other local public school district administrators that have public have preschools in their programs. um related service staff from here and they looked at information ranging from what does it look like for other public other public other public other public other public preschool programs in New Hampshire and the information we have is that there's approximately 173 public elementary schools in New Hampshire 144 of those have public preschool programs so we're vastly in the minority of schools to not have push I think it's us in line in this region are the only ones that And those are all

140year are they all like school year based? >> No. So So the range is um three days a week, three hours a day for three year olds, four days a week, four hours a day for four year olds to full day school year school day hour programs. So that the range is that big in public school, >> but they run the school year cycle. They don't say, "Hey, we're going to do like a summer program for preschoolers." >> No. >> Okay. >> Um there's also some some programs that have like a morning and afternoon session. >> So, all of that was looked at and we looked at the the model that's in place at Norwich. Um they're in their third year um and seeing how that program has grown and the benefits that that school

141has had of owning those preschool students. Are they shrinking their program as part of this next budget cycle? I was told that they >> I believe it's a discussion. >> They they kept it. They kept it. So they have two classrooms with two teachers. >> Two classrooms. Two teachers, two EAs in each classroom and full day. >> And how many students is that all? >> 36. >> What percentage of that? Sorry. Rob's over there. >> Now, we usually have about 47 to 15 students apply for those spots. >> Oh, check your question. >> And what percentage is that of like a typical grade for them because as a percentage that's a much bigger part of their student body than supposed 15 would be here, right? >> Oh, yes. >> Yeah. >> And so this proposal

142for this year is to start with one classroom. projection would be that there would be a desired need and if the school board and the community wanted it, it would be something that could grow. And that was the the information on the second page was if we were to add an additional classroom in a couple years, what those costs would be. >> Yeah. But am I right? The the growth would be from just not from kids with IDPs and special needs. >> So consistently, >> we're seeing a fairly consistent. So we looked at our our numbers of student of IIPS of preschool age across the at least the past five years might have been seven or 10. Um there were normally around I think between eight and 10 students of preschool age that have IEPs.

143So that is a pretty consistent number. And so when we built the idea for the program, we thought half a little more than half of 15 student classroom could be those students and then we have the remainder of the students. So, so, so if we grow looking at Norwich as a model, we will be actively stepping into a pro providing preschool because that kind of numbers is beyond is really going to be tuition. >> I mean, we have to consider tuition because we'll be in >> competition with other places and >> and we'd still charge substantial amount. It'll work. Yeah. [laughter] >> And part of this process for as I mentioned did involve representatives on the committee from area preschools and we've had great working relationships with um most if not all the preschool programs

144because we have students that go there. Um those students come into our kindergarten. And so part of that conversation was would this be something that would be detrimental to business closing? um that wasn't the outcome it and we're seeing the similar thing right how it is in Norwich there's still a need um some families want a different option and not just what the public preschool offers six and a half hours a day um so that was consideration that was taken right by the community >> thank you I think um just piece of information the upper valley has a massive ch like prek shortage of all positions for kids that are not school massive shortage. I mean there's a whole collaborative in the upper valley to figure out how do we address this because it was

145such an issue and um so I think even beyond just this immediate the idea of growing more prek spots is not to be >> and and I just also want to clarify that there is a distinction between highquality preschool programming and child care. The intention is not for this to be a childare program where children come and they don't have um enriching educational opportunities. >> Yeah, Vinnie. Um I just want to kind of elevate just check uh a few things that I remember coming up in conversation with folks. One was uh more maybe this is the question. um the kids that will be in this prek program, will they be participating in like music or PE or art um as part of their normal school day? >> Uh so the initial plan was that it

146wouldn't require specialist teachers to facilitate preschool program. Um the public preschools that have the elementary schools that have public preschools uh manage that with their teachers and their support staff. Um, part of being a preschool teacher is engaging in art activities and it is engaging in physical activity outside. Um, I think if it were to grow, it was something that the school wanted to support that would be a scheduling component and a possible additional FTEES with specialist teachers if we were to add additional preschool classrooms. >> Not a lot of cost. Um just uh on that note, the um I do want to make sure that it's clear what the experience is going to be for students and the families that are kind of participating in this. And I think this gets to a more

147kind of higher level. Um I know we've kind of been dabbling my questions. I'm just going to go for it. Uh I have I have strong reservations about this year. I think I I'm constantly reflecting I have friends that are in other school boards. I'm reflecting about how grateful I am about our school board. How the question is not is this a valuable thing for kids. We all know prek is so important. Um and I'm talking to you posted but I know that you're like I get it. I used to vote, >> but I think my my largest concern is >> yes, it's a lot of money and uh I will talk about that in a second, but I think I I have a bigger concern about the fact that we haven't talked about like

148>> the program >> the the program overall like we're talking about adding a grade. >> That sounds like a lot. Sounds like there should be a board member on that on that committee that is kind of puzzling through this. How do we engage parents a little bit more in terms of what that looks like? What is the experience that we want for these students and is that consistent with the budget we're proposing? Like is it do parents want their kids in like the self-contained self? It's not the right word in a modular classroom and not being able to get the art. Um maybe maybe that's fine. We would I think we need to be more clear about what the vision is uh for that student experience and I I know that we have numbers and

149we talked about things but it I just don't feel like we got there this year with the right set of folks and constituents in conversations and I think that this is a wonderful starting point and puts us up for a really good robust conversation in the future when we want to continue that if you want to continue that conversation. The other piece about budget impact, it's a lot of money. Uh, at what, two and a half percent, we just voted on 16 million. So, this is like looking at like two and a half% uh additional. It it just seems like when we're talking about all the hard work that our staff has done and the budget committee has done to really try and hone in as much as we can. It I feel like it

150is irresponsible to say great thank you for all that work. We are now saying seven eight% and also by the way there's another two and a half percent that is in this other war article that's just going to be rolled into next year's budget and is going to do the thing that sports is doing and it's going to automatically increase our budget next year. All of this is explainable but I don't feel good about being able to say and here's why I'm passionate about it. I want to feel like I can really stand behind this and say this is worth it and this is why and I it just I can't be on I beyond saying like prek is important >> and like I I just don't feel good about that. And so in this

151year I feel like we have more work to do to get to a place where I think frankly all of us can say here this is important here's why. I would echo Rene's comments on thanks for everything you guys are doing on this. Um I think I'm a bit more gung-ho than than she may be. Just hold the phone. >> That's fine. >> Um I wanted one simple question then a longer one at that. The second one first would be I know we're not having special teachers being involved but is that the same thing as they would have access to things like the gym and stuff like that during space. Yeah, exactly. You guys we talked about a little bit once you have >> to get busy scheduling >> scheduling. The only time that the

152specials classes are not being used is at the very end of the day, which is 2:25. >> Yeah, Lord. >> I um you thought through this question a little bit since last time we met as well. Um somebody brought up the thought of is it okay for students to be in this one classroom or this one modular like for their entire day? are they really going to struggle with like not having a change of setting. Um this is me speaking from experience now. Um my child is in a local center and spends the majority of his time in one room for the whole day even though there are lots of other rooms. >> The exception being um when we're going for outside time which would be translated here to like outdoor classroom and recess time.

153Um and additionally, you know, the program is just across all of our centers. So other half bath on um across all of our centers is meant to be and designed to be integrated which feels slightly different from our programmatic philosophy in K5 at this moment as in um in any given moment a student's experience in you know I'm going to just keep saying preschool but I'm also kind of in the back of my head thinking of childcare centers too but in in the preschool setting you what they're learning about and what they're doing is truly integrated. So just because they don't go to a 45 minute art special here, the art projects that they're doing, the singing that's involved, everything that's happening as part of a preschool program um does bring all of that in.

154So as I thought through this, because I was part of this committee, as I thought through that, that was less of um a reservation that I had in thinking through the program and the space itself. like this is actually not far off of the norm. It's happening in our local centers and it's kind of developmentally appropriate in some ways. I think of all the conversations we've had about time and transition and how hard that is for our little do we actually want our, you know, three and four year olds walking from here down to the gym. Is there a better use of time? I don't know. So, things to consider when I was thinking about space. I also when we were coming up this with this proposal I just wanted to say too that um

155last time somebody mentioned well you know we're already serving this need so what is the urgency or the you know rationale about changing it a little bit of the if it ain't broke you know why try to fix it mentality um and when I was thinking through that uh and the experiences that we hear from families who bring their um students to the race school in kindergarten especially our students that are being served through an IEP is that um the support that we currently deploy send out from the RA school to these centers is important and helpful for the number of sessions and minutes that are outlined in the IEP. So if the IEP says that there this student is going to get, you know, three sessions of speech for 30 minutes, what that looks

156like is the speech pathologist going to a center where we don't employ any of those employees. Um, working with that student, consulting with those teachers, doing the best they can to say, "Okay, this is what I just did. Now, here's how you're going to transfer it in the time that I'm not there." Um, and it ends up being, you know, some real direct service and a lot more consulting and hoping that the centers that we work with have the capacity to follow up on the recommendations that we're giving. Um, when we have the students here in the building, uh, the folks that are working with them are here. They're our employees. It's a real wraparound service so that it's not the sort of in and out type scenario. It's constant. It's throughout the day. and

157they're also our employees and so we have supervision over what's happening for these students and I just think that those are really important points considering some discussion that we've had in the past. I am of course very invested in this and I'm I'm kinking myself a little bit because it's kind of hilarious that at the concluding meeting that we had for this preschool committee last year, the words came out of my mouth, next year is going to be the year. It's going to be the year. It's like now or never. when we think about how we're projecting the budget and um initiatives and what we're thinking through so many things are going to be staying constant next year is going to be the year well silly me as we're making right so it's not the

158year and I I appreciate um perhaps it's not the year and I appreciate that you know folks are are voicing that um and I can try you know to understand that as well but to you know to answer the the point of like why did we bring this forward we just really didn't know it was going to look like it this year. In fact, we thought this was going to be >> connect and Lawrence points perfectly to my second question which was going along similar lines, but it's sort of the the fact that this is a fully certified one of our teachers. I think lends a sense of oversight and accountability as well as helping determine the quality that we that we're making that assumption we push these IEP kids out into the near community

159that like Nor said, we're making a big assumption that that level of quality we're expecting is actually happening. And I guess I would ask you guys, my feeling we're in public, have there been situations you've seen where we were financing and helping individual students that they did not get the quality me we were expecting and frankly paying for. >> Uh we've had situations where a program hasn't worked out for a preschool student and then we work with a different preschool program and transition that students. Um, >> so you've had to actually transfer some of our students from one preschool to another preschool. >> Yes. And for a number of reasons. Some have been the good quality, some have also been the scheduling or the distance. Um, and we try to utilize preschool programs in our

160town ideally if we can. >> Um, but also sometimes there's not space available and we have a student with a need. So they have to go to a place that's a little further outside. Um, so there have been reasons to transitions to this two different programs. >> I saw a few hands on the board and then I saw Rene's hand and I want to make sure finance committee gets their opportunity. So my full time um but I want to make sure everyone gets a chance to speak. >> Yeah. Um, I think I could be the passionate voice about why this needs to happen. And I could go into as a school social worker all the ways that early childhood interventions maybe change the number of EAs we need in our kindergarten and first grade classrooms

161and shift all kinds of things in terms of education. I don't actually think that's the conversation we're having right now. I actually don't think we need to convince people that this is valuable. Um although I'm here for that [laughter] I'll do but um I think for me it's the is this the year is this not the year in my experience in education and funding there's never going to be I do not feel confident about next year um with the way that federal funding is going especially for our highest needs kids um I don't believe there's a year and I hear you around strings I'm newer to the district and newer to the area and Spanish and all the awesome some things that we offer. Um, and ultimately there may be some reckoning of like what

162can we pay for and um I don't want to say I'll die on this hill, but like um early childhood inter intervention to me um is crucial is core and that's not an opinion that's based in fact. And so if we for me it's it's a Warren article. We're asking for the community of Hanover to let us know what they think. Um, and I think that it may end up with some really hard conversations in future years about like what does that mean about these really special unique things that we can say that the Ray School does and that there's really hard choices and you can't actually have it all. Um, but to me personally, early childhood is a demonstration of true investment in education. And I don't know when [clears throat] the year is

163that we say that because you know that that we don't value that as a nation, right? like early childhood people get paid less than everybody else. Um people leave those roles all the time. So I think for me this is an issue that I feel pretty strongly about um that I would want the town to have voice and yeah. >> Yep. >> Um I know when the time is for this. This is a structural budget obligation that we will be establishing for the town in now several budget cycles we've been through that all of the changes that we have made to solve the problems in the district have refused to be structural um resolutions of existing budget problems. So the year to do this is the year where the board has the capacity to take

164a look at the budget and say this is what we are going to do to fix the long-term problems of the sustainability of the budget. And we haven't gotten there yet. And I'm hopeful with next year with the teacher contract negotiation that next year would be the year. But then for us to be responsible fiscally as a board, we need to um contemplate this expenditure in the same discussion as the full budget because we will be setting ourselves and the taxpayers up for another lumpy budget cycle that will be very difficult to explain and is not worth it. So this should not be a separate warrant article. This should be an item that the board as a unit says we are going to fund this because it's important and we have a long-term plan for

165our district to support this and we don't have that yet. So we just cut an art teacher funding from RMS yesterday. Of course I can't vote for this. I can't because then I wouldn't be being responsible. We just made some hard decisions. We have to live with that, right? This is not living with and sitting with the hard decisions and problem resolution and this is adding another problem on top from a fiscal perspective not from you know an educational and a you know ethical and all of those things but we have to do it all together um just the yes and I think that there's uh in my mind. I want to see the investment from board and administration to take those hard questions to heart and say, okay, what is that forecast? What really

166is the staffing level that we need? What are the services that we really want to be having at our schools? And in that kind of in that district priorities bullet point list, that's where we get to talk about some trade-offs. And I think we get to say, okay, we can either add this on, you know, play another card and add this on, or we can say, actually, we need to make some hard decisions and we need to make a cut here and a cut here because we know the value of this prek program. And by the way, we will have a lovely in a spreadsheet forecast of what that projected cost is going to be included in that multi-year financial plan because it is multi. It's it's you're committing to humans and space and those

167two things are very expensive. Like the electricity cost, yes, it's not in there. Kind of don't care as much because it's not the driver of that cost, but we will have to have it in like, you know, actual number. Uh, but I think that I if I'm just trying to think like if I were my wonderful colleague Sherry, I'd be like, well, no, we're voting on it and we might not be voting on it next year and I don't like there's no guarantee, right? If we decide not to do this, there is no guarantee it's going to be a part of the conversation next year other than like our, you know, scouts honor will talk about it, you know? So, I totally get that. Uh, but I I just I can't support something when we

168haven't actually like we haven't eaten our vegetables and we're trying to have like my kids sometimes get away with it. I just don't feel great about doing that. And I just want to see the board's commitment to our fiscal responsibility and our our affordability town. And right now, if affordability means affordability means not adding 3K so that next year we can start really digging up our sleeves, great. I I'm wrestling with the the the process moving forward. Um because I completely agree Latara that we need to be stepping back and looking at the big picture and saying instead of [snorts] you know this and this how what is it that we value and want to do and are willing to commit to and what it looks like. But, you know, we've got the Ray School

169and then we've got the Richmond School and we've got the high school and we've got different um constituent groups and get different people invested in that. And [clears throat] I just I'm more than willing to do that work. I'm just wondering how do we do it, >> right? I think that's a great question and I think you know when when we step back in sort of the next time around questions I you know it it feels to me like some of our initial conversations should be as a full team right like where are those priorities because while this is a financial investment for handover it is an investment in the education for our entire district right these benefits should be K through 12 right the benefits we would see for a program like this. So,

170um you know, and and I will own putting this in a warrant article this year because that decision came sort of after we saw the tax bill, after we saw Oh, boy. Like, so maybe we put this separately so we make sure that we're not, you know, carving 200,000 out of the operating budget to fund this, right? But I hear you that in if if this if we decide not to put this on the warrant um this year then I think perhaps in a future year we say okay we're stating this is a priority. We are including it in the regular budget. Where are the trade-offs? Where are the focus goals? How are we looking at our fiscal responsibility overall um and making those choices? And you know, maybe it is that our enrollment has

171gone down a little bit and so now we're down a classroom and oh look, now we have a little space and so you know, some of those conversations um I think to me would make sense in the future, right? But but I I really I what I am thinking is if this doesn't go on the warrant, I want to be talking about it at our meeting in March. >> Yes. I want to be moving forward and I want to be the players have to be at the table. >> Um because I I will admit when rep came in October, it was the first I even knew that they were talking about doing a prek program and I thought was I just not paying attention? >> And so I really think >> at the risk of

172of more time for schoolboard members >> somehow we have to figure out a way that everybody who needs to make a decision is together. and what that looks like and when it will happen and what our commitment is. And I almost feel like we need a a consultant to come in and lead us on that or something because I just feel like if Robin adds one more thing to her plate, her head will fall off. If you do, you're you [laughter] can't keep blowing up our administrators, >> right? And I worry that we will do that and our schoolboard members. Um I take quick comments and then I want to make sure these people get a chance to Yeah. >> I mean I think they value all of these decisions on this question. I don't

173think any of them are wrong. I think that I am always extremely skeptical of arguments that sound like this is really important to me but we can only do it if we do it exactly right. And so if it's important to us, there's a reason to think consider at least >> putting Exactly. Exactly. >> And and as as part of a larger commitment to to do this kind of work striving, but um I don't see why this is the thing that you hostage to do that. No, not you personally, >> right? No, because this is this is getting treated separately. If this was a part of our normal budget discussion, it this is how many social workers. We can't even get a part of a social worker for the race school. We can't even get

174a fractional social worker. So if this was part of that conversation, this would have been dead already three meetings ago. >> Right. So it's not fair to put it like this when we have done so much hard work with the rest of the budget that now this is some kind of separate >> and I I think that the reason I hear it I would love to like do things well and I want like I'm excited to learn and do it and put in the time to do budget better right like this process does seem nuts the amount of work Renee has put in is a new board member I'm very grateful that I did not come in with a finance background um But um I think um I I'm going to say the exact same

175thing that just said in a different way because that's what I wanted to say. It's just sometimes you do build the I mean I work in a school. We say that all the time. We build the plane while you're flying it. It's dangerous but it's the only way you get things done because kids walk in the building every day. I do not trust the landscape that this will actually get prioritized. I don't. This social work position has been brought up in this district for five years. um and >> middle school sports for 10. >> And I would argue that I would give up three of my positions as a school social worker to for prek. We have prek where I work, right? Like I just I I cannot overemphasize early intervention as to education like

176I'll say I'm totally forward as well. I I'm a little confused on the warrant article argument being made here. I'm just helping clarify where you're coming from. So, what what I'm hearing is warrant articles are good and we make the deliberate choice to have them be a separate budget language because if it's a newish concept such as middle school sports. So, we want to give the public that choice as to whether to implement a new program. Remember, this is not a the board is for or against the board. We're deciding whether to put it on the bud on the warrant articles or not. It's not a full throat of things here. So you'd rather bury it in the budget as a new item than have it be a warrant article for public disc. Yeah. Sorry,

177sorry word choice, [laughter] >> but rather than giving it to the town to decide. >> So if we as a board all agree that this is a thing that we need to do as a district, and I think we pretty much all feel that we need to do it. It's just a matter of timing for some of us, right? Um then we commit to it in the normal budget process and we have the clarity of communication with the town to say this is how the percentage our overall budget is increasing this year because we are adding a new program and this is the fraction of the budget it is rather than taking it out of cart and then having them vote and wonder the next year when we do have to fold it into the

178budget process as a structural item which it is intended to be in the first place um why the budget when they're getting nothing new it's just a standard year why the budget is increasing so dramatically so you do that at the beginning when the justification and the clarity is there we are increasing the budget another x% because we are adding this new item and it is going to continue to be in this budget persistently down the line. And we're hoping to actually expand it. And we already know what that looks like because we've done a 5-year advanced work through of the cost impacts. Whereas we are providing what the $30,000 is our current cost. And we are now asking the voters to pay $430,000 to add seven children. This year, seven children plus seven children

179plus $400,000 in a year where we can't fund a fractional social worker and we can't do a.5 FTE for an art teacher for RMS. I just that does not compute. That's irrational. We should consider all of these things together because that's how they should be considered. you can get this one, but you can't get that one because we need to spend x number of dollars and be fiscally conservative. You don't say, "Oh, we can't do that, but we're going to do just anyway." That doesn't make any sense to me. Robin, Renee, Renee, um, one thing that I do want you to be sure of is we have successfully already implemented a prek program. So I think you can have confidence in that we would be able to implement a highly successful program. We've done that

180over the span of four years and we started out with a part-time program that has now grown into two full-time classrooms and the numbers continue to grow. We have more and more people interested in it. So I think we have the knowledge, we have the background. I've been at many schools with three school programs. we will have a successful preschool program. If you said we're putting a warrant article on this today and it passed, we would open and it would be successful. Would it be perfect the first year? No, it will be different in each school that we implement your program in. But it will be great programming. So I don't want you to not feel like you can't do this because we don't have the background knowledge because we do have background knowledge. So

181having a group and I >> I also just appreciated like when we were talking about this I think it was the December fifth coffee there was a lot of that too it's like here's actually how things have happened in Marian cross like there are some questions about how uh kids would be selected and things like that but we we already started with ideas which was really great um I think uh this concept of like war article also uh I find it's it's good and bad in a lot of ways and I think back to you like I I have worked in education deeply. I've worked in numbers in education deeply. And when I go in to vote up until this year, it's been this looks like a good idea. The boards have the numbers worked

182out. Okay. Like I I love public education. Like it's wonderful. >> But I'm relying on the school board to do the work to say, "Yeah, we do want to invest in that. We should probably actually think deeply about our other costs, our other investments at least." So we can say we still believe in all these other things and look we did the work to make sure our FTEES were right sides and gosh that was really hard to cut from 27 to 26 but we really believed in that because of next year's prek like I can't say that what we have actually decided on is holding those 27 FTE because we're like we we think that enrollment is going to go up. It tends to fluctuate. We think there's real need for that and we haven't

183actually had any other difficult conversations about those decisions within the school building in conjunction with this new grade level that we are trying to bring in and I I just I worry that we won't I have not seen evidence that we have and therefore next year will we or are we actually just going to continue this process of great now we have prek we've add another grade and costs are going to continue to increase in our our our our area is going to become less and less affordable. I'm going to have to move out. And that's not hyperbole. Like this is this is a real consideration. And I think Terry said it last night really well is like we can't just think about our own selves and our own budget, but also our neighbors and

184our neighbors neighbors and maybe those people across town that we don't actually talk to. Um like there's there is real need in this community to think very deeply about the amount of money we're asking people to put in for our community. and it's wonderful and we des they deserve a board that's actually going to go in and say, "I hear you. I see you. I understand it's hard and I'm going to make a trade-off where I'm explain to you why we're not making a trade-off and make it very clear." And I I am committed to doing that work. I am ready to do that work. We did not do that work this year. I was not prepared for it and I will be next year. And I really would love for you guys to hear

185that and when and however you can. >> However you can. Uh but I I that is my my biggest concern here. Also, one other point of just um information is Vermont still funding prek in some way. >> Yes. Still part of the mix. >> And if you don't do it in house, you got to pay for them to go somewhere else. >> Well, now >> Oh, there's Yeah, it's big incentive. >> It's different. But okay, I was wondering. >> Um, I guess my question is kind of when does the offset occur, right? Because if the initial start is for students that we are servicing the under IEPs and I honestly I don't know if 504s also apply in the preschool age but if that is the first kind of group of children that the we

186would be wanting to service at this point in time at a prek here in house. At what point do we offset because we have we are legally obligated to provide these services wherever these children may be that are within our district. And um usually right services inhouse are going to be cheaper. I don't I'm not trying to make it sound that way but they're going to be less right because you have every staff here. No one's traveling. no one's um hoping they can make their 2 to 2:30 appointment and then like run across town to make their you know three o'clock appointment. Um and so were a lot of this money is in the budget being paid out to the special education team and at what point kind of does that even out? Because to

187me, the way that I think about it is we're shifting basically the money that's in that's built in and at some point it's going to >> right up right itself is the word I was looking for. Do we know what that tipping point is like having x number of of preschool IEPs be serviced in house? >> So I will say part of it depends on what we charge for tuition. Um, and I would feel more comfortable personally supporting that if we had already in front of us right here a clear like the top ability to pay is going to be 10,000 and there's going to be a sliding scale down to zero, right? And we know what that looks like. >> We don't have a we've estimated an average of 5,000, but we haven't fully

188decided what that would look like. Um so for the first year the thought would be about seven children with IEP services and then seven or eight kids who are not receiving IEP services. Um again we didn't bake into these considerations tuition for those kids because those seven or eight kids based on Mary and Cross prioritization of who gets those spots would most likely be ESOL or free reduced lunch kids potentially. yet. So we didn't want to count on that revenue. But I think there is right when we when we scale up to 30 kids, 35 kids, whatever it is, there is there starts to be that like okay, this is now more self- sustaining, right? So you know also depends do you have to build a separate space for them or not? Like so there's

189there's a lot of independence in that. Um, one of the questions that I had just from a financial standpoint is we've have the 30,000 offset in here, which is those tuition costs for those kids to go to other I know we have a half an FTE for preschool special education in the budget. I imagine that would come out if we did have this program >> educational assistant. Yeah, for ed assistant >> that student may still require it, but if we have a school teacher and an ed assistant probably would crack in the classroom that child's needs most likely be able to meet with that additional >> there might be some trade-off. There's some of that life depends on the kid, depends on the need, depends on you know but yes absolutely it's a fair question.

190I mean you hope at some point it would start to self sustain. >> Not for a while. Certainly not until next year, right, when we scale up. >> Well, we we need to be clear. We're talking about spending $400 plus,000 to save 30,000. >> That I mean that it's >> right as one of the options. I will just point out I want to hear Bill um board members as plants talks to us. Please keep in mind you you could potentially put any of those four options in the warrant article. I mean that's that as a >> as a board we could decide to put any of those numbers. >> The explanation says a modular classroom a new one will be required for each expansion class. So I don't think we will see scaling um efficiencies

191>> until future years >> unless they Yeah. >> Okay. >> Hi Greg. You're the best. Thank you guys. >> U the finance committee has only had the opportunity to talk about this one time because I only recently have seen the 400 plus thousand uh dollar figure within this within this deck. And in our discussion, we noted that there are some major things that we don't know which not the least of which would be if you had the warrant article passed, what would that do to the tax rate? Mhm. >> So among [clears throat] other things uh uh we we share uh the concerns that have already been expressed but basically came down to if you if you put this to someone in the public they're going to be looking at you you're telling me I

192got to pay for almost a million dollars more and now you want me to pay an additional 400,000 plus that's that's the issue. And the the risk is is that unless you build the public support given our our process is now you're going to have um one more meeting where this this Warren article will be I think for the overall public it's going to be very much a surprise, >> right? um they're going to be asking that question and the risk is is that this goes down in flames is the warn article and then you have a terrible problem >> trying to get it back in. >> So I think you have to u I'm speaking just personally now because haven't had the chance with the committee to fully discuss it. um you you need

193to build public support and there were some excellent statements about what that support would look like. that you you have to go through that that in order for the the public to to buy in all the things that you all have said uh have been rightly identified uh needs to be understood by the public that right now there I the chances of this passing I don't think are very good >> in the way it's standards and and you don't want that >> thanks um Tony um so Tony Barry's speaking Personally, I'm from Hamburg. Um I think that the warrant article is written is somewhat misleading. It says um it's asking the voters whether they're going to approve a prek program, which I as a voter would take to mean anybody with a prek kid is

194going to have prek available next year. Maybe seven kids who don't currently see that um >> yeah or pre, you know, are going to have that opportunity. And I think if you say there are going to be 15 slots, it means $430,000 and seven of those slots are, you know, already set aside. Um, so unless you're one of those families, there will only be eight slots. I think it the voter will have different questions regarding >> Yeah, good point. Thank you. Um, I I'm going to be brave and and speak or Kelly as as Renee did. Um I what I would like to see personally knowing that we have the Marian Cross experience I am not feeling the same need to scale up that Marian Cross went through. So my personal feeling is in a

195next in the next budget cycle that we say here is our full hope for this program. It's two classrooms. It's 36 kids or it's three classrooms and it's this is how we're going to do it. This is what it looks like. This is the full program. This is the tuition program. This is the full all-in cost. We believe in this. We know we can do it because we have the plane built in Mary Cross and we know we can bring that over here. Thank you for that analogy. Um and and we're going to make the rest of the program work or the rest of the budget work with this program. we had all this robust discussion this year which we can now car it forward to the public next year. Um that's kind of where

196I'm going and I'll tell you my concern. And I share Grace's concern that if we put this forward, whether it's the 100,000 number or the 400,000 number or one of those numbers in between, um, and it fails, then trying to put this in next year in that thoughtful we have this, not that it wasn't thoughtful this year, but we now have fleshed out every aspect of this and we know what we're putting before the voters. If we do that and it fails, I think that becomes a harder hill decline going forward. That's my concern in this year where it is a tough budget year and where we've said that over and over and at the meeting in March, we're going to be saying it again. This is a tough year. I think to then say

197also we have this warrant article to propose to you. I think we're setting ourselves up and that concerns me. Not from an I don't value it, not from a work hasn't been wonderful standpoint, but from a is a voter going to approve this in a year when we're saying this is a tough year. It's really hard. I'm worried that they're not going to approve a new thing added on top of that which again I'll own by putting this as a warrant article. I think that set us up as it turns out in this year. >> So yes, >> hi Rich Greger. I'm vice chair of the finance committee. I'm the only member that actually attended this meeting yesterday's meeting. >> Thank you. Bring a little context to the discussion. And to Tara's point earlier, I

198totally agree with what she said and I would like to add that we also have to view the full tax question in a greater world view because we have we know that for example grass county taxes are going to go about 10% at least we're anticipating. I don't really know too much about the I did kind of preliminary budget meetings for the town on Monday for their small department but I don't know carry the other what's going to happen in the town but we know there's big projects that are coming up you know there's the south main street project there's the west we walk project and so there's a lot of stuff that's on the plate at the same time right now and so having that in context with viewing through that lens what's going

199on you know I totally agree with echo Craig's comments about this probably not the year to do this. And I I know you don't want to hear that because it seems like our year's not the year to do it, but I think we have some exceptional circumstances that we have to grapple with and we really have to come to grips with to be able to present this effectively to the town because there's going to be a point where the town's going to break up and say, "Hey, this is like a 12% increase in taxes." You know, there's going to be a revolt. I mean I think the town have been very supportive as sort of the school board uh proposals and I think in my time I've been here which is a little over 15

200years I think there was only one time the budget has and those were exception circumstances in themselves but keeping that in mind going forward I I really encourage you to try to keep that mile high view when we review this uh financial process. >> Thanks very much. Yes. Um, you know, I I can be very stubborn and I also I also really I value the learn. It's such good learning for me in terms of the physical piece of it and I I I I hear this. I hear it. I think my concern is that there really won't ever be a a time. There won't be a time. And so it is a force. It will it will if it if the voters just do what they sometimes do with education things. Yeah, we support we

201support we support. It will make things very lumpy. It will make our work hard. I worry that if it if the hand isn't forced, it's just not a part of the conversation for an even longer period of time because we're walking into um even more fiscal uncertainty and like in terms of educational funding. And so there is a piece for me that is struggling with the like am I digging my heels in because I I want it to get messy because personally prek is such a core like early intervention is so core to educational and I don't know that that is shared or known by the larger community that doesn't live in education in the way I do. Um, and and there are times that like I I love the amazing unique pieces that Rey

202is able to offer. Um, but it is shocking to be in such a privileged community and not have early intervention. It is shocking. It is and as a board member, those are the kind of things I want to be on the board to really push, right? And I don't know that as a community um that rises and it's going to be the like we got this. We're fighting for early intervention. And so what I'm wrestling with is not arguing anyone else's point. I hear that. I get what it will do to the budget. I I get it. I just I worry I really do worry that without forcing the hand whether it's this year or it's next year. Um I don't know that early early intervention gets talked about um and and that this kind

203of programming gets the highlight that I believe from an educational perspective it needs to have. And so that's where I'm like because I I actually 100% agree. Um and um but for this particular issue, it's more that like shock that we have so much and we don't have early interventions. It's um it it's very surprising to me as a member of this community and that knows all the wealth that's here. Um thanks. >> All right. If there was the obligatory surveys like it would [laughter] >> I'm required to say it. >> Um if there are no further questions or comments on this I'm going to ask the board [clears throat] to vote on whether we will be putting a warrant article for preschool on the ballot this year. We'll start with that and then we

204talk about the other warrant articles. Does that seem like a fair >> way to proceed? Okay. So, is anyone interested in making a motion to put a preschool warrant article? Okay. Sorry. Warrant article on the ballot this year. >> As present, can I I I don't usually do this, right? But um I'd like to but I I think I want to also hear the changing of wording around the um I I don't want to have a warrant article that we acknowledge is misleading. Right. And so I think the um >> the the piece around clarification of a program that would serve 15 students with the potential to grow or what like whatever that language is. I would feel um I would want that shift to happen. So I think it's valor that I would not

205an article but it's not. So, I'm trying to um >> my other concern while you're thinking about that aspect, I am still concerned about the non-lapsing appropriation of $427,000, $242. Um that I I don't know the wording. trying to think of what we did for the sports program. But to me that sounds like until we say we're not going to raise that and I guess we could say that next year we're going to keep raising $447,000 [clears throat] for this. >> Pilot programs. >> Yeah. >> So the non-lapsing concerns me >> I put you in a bit like the sports program got rolled in the next year. There was a lapse in >> right I think there was a one time >> it was a one year pip in >> not >> yeah I don't

206think that's what we >> and that's all in board talks not >> so I think the clarity if we were to tell clarity would be in that either in the first paragraph for the purpose of implementation of the rising rate school the rising rate preschool program for 15 students or we put it in the second paragraph. If we assume people are going to read that far, that would cover that, you know, funding this program for 15 students would cover, you know, including the current IEPs, preschool students with priority placement, comma, >> I mean, or something with an initial year of up to 15 students. the potential to >> you can't say the potential because that Rex Rex thing says we need a new a new modular classroom for each additional um class expansion which means

207this is not scalable this is not does not efficiently scale and I would want to know could we make this efficiently scale that's we need to rework this space if we want this program in for efficient dollars and I think we could do that I would also say if we start a pilot program that's not a full day if we haven't figured that bit out because then we could serve more students. If we did a morning class and an afternoon class we get 30 kids instead of 15 and we still serves our IEP kids. >> So I want to ask again if someone's going to make a motion we need to make the motion. What I'll propose Can Can I do this, Kelly? The simple thing, the litmus test is I move that we not

208include a warrant article for preschool program this year and see what the vote is. >> I Okay. Uh, is there discussion on this? >> You repeat. >> I move that we not include a word article for school program this year. All right. Second and Deb seconded. So Tara made the motion that we not include it. Deb seconded. Um if there is no discussion further discussion, >> I will take a vote at this time. So all in favor of not including >> of not including the warrant article on this ballot, please raise your hand. Uh, so that is >> Well, yes, but I I want to say that's Renee. What names did I say the names or just five? One, two, three, four, five. Okay. All in favor? All not in favor of not including >>

209a preschool. Thank you. All raise your hand. Okay. Two. All right. Thank you guys. [laughter] Delete. Um, thank you. Um, thank you everyone. I am going so we will not be including article six at this time. I do want to point out and I want this to go into the notes. We have one to all of your point. We have a wonderful opportunity at the annual meeting to share some of these details as you've done with your story. Here's what we considered. Here's what we took out. Here's what we considered. Here's what we took out. That is a wonderful opportunity for both the social worker and the preschool um to get those in the public's mind because people actually do tune in to that meeting. I think more than a lot of these it happens

210every month and it's three hours long and I'm not watch that right the annual meeting people do turn tune into because it's our summary of here's what we've done here's where we're at here's where we're going right >> is that the meeting we have a poor mission for >> yes we'll talk about that after but yes that is that meeting unfortunately times um >> and it's on a Saturday >> it's on a Saturday morning but so people don't often watch it live but they watch the recording okay So it is an opportunity however to get that out and get that in people's minds for our next conversations. Right. So um last motion for this evening. Um I need to take a motion for the warrant articles one two uh three and five. So excluding article

211four for right now. >> Oh yeah. I'll move on that one. Okay, maybe I I wasn't even paying enough attention. I move to approve the warrants articles one, two, three, and five. >> Thank all in favor. >> Okay, super. >> Thank you guys. And I don't believe we need it on public. No, >> please say no. Okay. [laughter] Okay. Final opportunity for public to address the board. >> Please. >> We are happy to have you address the board. >> So, sorry. The finance committee's meeting tomorrow. >> Yes. >> And there was a little question around some of the numbers. Some of the cuts were meant to I think decrease the tax rate and >> hopefully right >> as the numbers came out the other way. So when will that be done? Teresa, you're working on

212that right now. >> It was. Um and really preliminary what I went through was that um I know at the judge the meeting we went back through and I think that the differences that probably wasn't added to that little spreadsheet accountable was some of the revenues. We actually adjusted those because as we tried to hone in even more as we come closer to the budget on um students that are coming in and everything else. So we did >> where? Yeah, the tuition. So >> number of what we know right now. So that's what caused that to slip. So that's why I was just calculating up and looking and just double checking the numbers and based on reduction from last night and everything else. um no matter what I still come up with um which way

213I calculate it is um without the warrant articles it would actually be um 21 million6621 become 7% but that's taking >> so which which document you're going to update soon >> yes and I was >> which documents should you'd be referring to when we have our meeting tonight. >> Um I mean if you were if you were looking back at um I can get this done and send it to you probably would be better that I can send it to you. What time is your meeting? >> At 4:00 >> I'll get I'll get that to you and everything else and that way I can tell you which document but I just need to I think we have all of the members name. >> Yes. Everybody new exhibit 10 new exhibit. Yes. And then I can

214also just add the page for the dressing page where you can see with the adjustments and everything else. >> Yeah. And of course you got >> everybody hasn't had enough. We need your help. >> We had our own board. Yeah, question. At what point tomorrow are we going to know that the meeting is canled if we don't get the sign up? >> Yeah, because I I think I would hate go up and for us to find out for no reason to know by him. >> Okay. So, you guys would hear from me approximately lunchtime if it is canceled. >> Yeah. And if it's canceled for president, >> if it's canceled, we don't have to show. So, one of us will be here by >> because I'll be in a meeting before. So, I need to

215know if we have our next meeting uh next week. >> So, um if you have agenda items, I need them by Friday. >> Regular meeting. I need them by Friday. >> Can we talk about preschool? I was going to >> We ab can. >> We absolutely can. I don't think we should um I'll look at the agenda and make sure that that's the right can we get someone in on the other committee. >> Sorry about that. So I've noted I've noted that for Friday. >> Yes. I think Harry wants to get on the >> Yeah. I was just going to say a lot of notes and information concerns now that I'm not new by next week. If you have not >> but I'll be there. >> Okay. I noted it. Anything else? Let me know.

216I will take a motion to adjourn. >> I move to adjourn at 10:07 p.m. >> Okay. And roll call vote. >> Yes. >> Nelson. >> Yes. >> And yes. Okay. Thank you everybody. Teresa, can you can you send that to the board as well? Thank you. Yes. Yes. Yes. Those are regular just a regular campfire.