001Yeah, it's gonna be right over here. How are you? Good. How are you? Is May speaking for the environmental [Music] Yeah. Right. I had a really great conversation with her about and she was disappointed this year that we didn't do book clubs for the battle of books. um it just didn't work in the schedule this year, but we had a nice conversation yesterday some of the books and some of the controversy. Hi school. [Laughter] I think we might actually present. Hello. How are you? It's great. Good. start. Okay. All right. Thanks everyone for joining. I know today is May. I drove by the school think I was going to the high school. So I turned around and came back. used to high school. I was like, "Wait a minute. I'm in the wrong place." Okay.
002So, we'll call our meeting to order at 6:35 our May meeting. Um Gina, just so everyone knows, one of our board members is on her way. She's just checking in with her kids. Um she just come from Boston and Lisa's online, our other board members, so she can see everything. Um but she is also picking up her son from Logan Airport. So, thankfully we're all here. Um, so we get a quorum uh agenda review. Does anybody have any changes to the agenda? No. Um, we now can move into our public input. We have the public participation rules on here. Does we do we have anyone in the audience that would like to add anything? No. And anybody online just raise her hand. Actually welcome to see panelists. Anyone there? Unfortunately, it looks like Lisa got
003uh she might have gotten bumped out and she's back in the attendee list. We can move her back to panelist again. She's on 89. So as long as we had corn, we will have corn stays. Yes. Okay. Uh and next item. Okay. No, no public comments. Uh we'll move on to our presentation for the environmental club, which I think is why you are all here, right? Who wants to kick it off? Our lunchroom then, now, and the future. Um what was wrong with our old system? So last year we had uh we had a lot more we had more food waste. uh mostly because the food quality was a lot worse and only uh one to two buckets of food waste could be composted a week. So that's a lot less than we can now
004and the rest of it was just being um like used to c the landfill. So that was bad. We also used to um we had no commercial serve uh which we do now. And we also each have disposable trays that respond to the landfill, but now we have reusable ones. Um, some progress that we made last year. Uh but first we uh worked with Boston and Jer who are both compost experts and they helped us get uh the super composter program and um they and get the grant to build the compost pallet which now accommodates for all of the food that we that were wasting at school. We presented to Fins last year which we're going to do tomorrow. Um, we also worked with a Hamper High School to uh work on the climate action
005plan and uh we worked with Miss Alicia, the food service provider on getting more fresh. Uh we started doing offer versus serve which is where uh instead of having to take all the food that they offer uh you can take what you want. We uh have a salad bar now that has lots of fresh fruits and vegetables. Misbehaving that I'm just like the kids. Um we now have more vegetarian options. We started using reusable trays and we started the soup and sandwich initiative which is where get uh each class can make a soup and then uh that's served the next day at lunch. Uh we became an upper valley composter uh an upper valley center composter school after a lot of hard work and um we had an all compost rep. This photo is from
006our first strain in the compost palace, which we had like guidance from Cat and Andy, but it was almost all stool. But um currently MCS is composting all the food waste. So there's no stuff going to the landfill. Um and that is 67 pounds a day, which equals about six times a year. You could say we're the environmental club is doing a lot of public outreach such as presentations to bins. We just had an open house where we taught students from the Ray School and um Richmond um about the stuff that we're doing here and we got the new compost palace which can handle a lot more compost. Um, our compost palace was established in January of 2025 and is almost fully student operated and it's handling almost 100 100% of the school food waste.
007We held an open house during Earth Week. Um, we communicated to the community about how our compost works. Uh we have a compost focus rep to inform MCS students of our environmental impacts. So two years ago we did a food audit and earlier this year we did another food based audit to see how much we have changed and over the next few slides we'll show some of our data. During the FW the food waste audit or FWA uh our science methodology had some flaws. We changed many variables like implementing the salad bar offer versus serve and more local foods. Some days data was incomplete due to our error and we uh collected uh data on milk waste this year but we were unable to do that the other food was a we learned from the
008food waste audit that our uh total food waste per day has not changed significantly but we did learn that the food waste was significantly higher on days when there were abrupt menu I changes that kids did not know about also So uh during barbecue chickpea and rice day we lose to 50% of the food that was served. Um and we also learned that a large percent of the milk of the food waste was milk and we learned that to last. So, we still are wasting food, but um luckily a lot more kids are getting school lunch and um yeah, so as you this is a graph of what kids answered in the food on it and you can see that about half of it um they answered that they about this is a graph of
009why kids wasted food that um and about half of it they answered because it was either too much food or they weren't hungry. So that's something we're going to address. And then the other half is about the food quality. But luckily compared to last year that's a lot better. Here's graph about some of our data. The dark green bars represent the milk waste and the teal bars represent um the total waste and the blue bars are not like it. The bar doesn't really mean anything. It's just to show the percent between um like on one day it's almost 50% of the total waste is no waste. You can kind of visually see it like that. Um, an option for the future is to use a B milk tank, which would reduce on packaging and it
010we could have different types of milks and or water, which like milk um has a quite high carbon dioxide emissions for like producing it next to like hamburgers. And over here is a graph on the carbon emissions of different types of milk. So that's who has a guess how many carbon dioxide we are saving if we compost it. If we when we are composting when we are composting for one week. Anybody have a guess? Can you read us the three choices? I can't read them from here. Not the choices. That's just say 10. No, that's to say it's above 14. Let's just say it's above 14,000. Whoa. Wow. And then guess Okay. 2017. I can kind of read it. [Laughter] Okay. It's 15,121 pounds. So that's a lot. And that's the sand that's the same
011as you drive a car for 14 14 about 14 m 14,000 miles and it's a it's 643 it's like 600 gallons of gas it in it in one year and two elephants, 85 refrigerators, six. Cars, kindergarteners. That is uh our future in our future and our host. Uh we did we're going to design and make like a new like compost waste sorting station uh based on the food recovery hierarchy. Um Dr. Young prek nutrition education uh program and money set purchasing more of the food. having students involved with preparing and growing our own food, new recipes and taste testing, and then more like grown foods from our own garden. One thing that we found was more education on the salad bar is needed because kids are taking like too much food from the salad bar
012for them to eat and then they're composting a lot of it and it just needs to be taught that there's like to just take what you need and get more. You want more. Um, next year we are going to try out doing family style dining. So, we're going to have bowls in the center of each table. So, then people can like just take the food and put it on their trays. So then they can't so then they don't take too which we hope will make it which we hope will reduce food waste because they'll just take how much they want and then we can use the other the rest the leftovers to um like donate to the food pantry since it never touched other like since it never touched the trays. I just want to
013say um one that these kids have been working really hard which I think is probably self-evident but um we're not doing it in a vacuum that the support of the board of Mr. DA of Alicia of our custodial staff has all been super integral in the success of anything that we've done. Um, and so we're we're grateful for that. And um, and we're happy to entertain any questions that you might have. Um, there are kiddos here who are um, interested in being able to answer questions if you have any. All right. Can I ask them question? Sure. So you guys said that um there was no that the amount of food waste did not go down in the last audit you did not count milk waste at all because milk is a big part of
014the waste in this one. So is the non-reduction including the real or not including I think that was a big problem with our methodology in general is that we changed like five variables at the same time and so it's difficult to ascertain which change made the difference um or lack of difference. The salad bar as you saw sometimes it's like whole apples that are going in they also weigh a lot. Um milk weighs a lot more than you know rice does. So, um I think it's a it's plausible uh hypothesis um about why the the total waste hasn't changed. Um but I don't know that it's the only the only thing I think that the the salad bar is contributing. Would you all agree with that? The salad bar is contributing. You can't weigh like
015because all serve is in place like people are taking like the salad bar. So, we can't like there's not like a serving size that we used last year. Last year we weighed an entire intact tray and we couldn't there was no way to do that this year. So somebody might have gotten the beans and the corn and and somebody else may have just gotten the beans and there's no there was no way to sort of standardize a meal um without driving Alicia crazy before service and measuring you know the food total food served before and after which is what we what we hoped to do. It didn't work out. Mr. Uh, I just want to give an appreciation because it takes a long time to make change, especially in a school system. And I think
016your interests and you being willing to identify a problem, do some research, bring some data, present to the school board, work with the kitchen staff, work with me has made huge changes in our program that would have normally taken us much longer to do. So, I really appreciate that you have put all the energy into this because you've brought our school further in two years than we probably could have done in five. So, thank you. Question. If the barbecue chickpeas and rice was the most composted meal, what was the least composted meal? I think it's grilled cheese. Grilled cheese is low. French toast stick. They act very low. Um and pizza pizza day. It depends. It depends. There are some kids on it. Some people also really really hate the people with some pizza in
017here and some people really like the pizza here. Anecdotally, I would say French toast sticks. We didn't get collect I I first just want to thank you. I don't have a question but a comment and you should know that people are talking about you. So, um, we we just I just had a meeting with people from the Manshshire Museum and from the high school environmental club who were just overjoyed the work you're doing here and they're really excited for more people to learn about it. And I you already mentioned that you've been working with your peers at at the middle school and and at um the Ray School. You're so far ahead here in this area that it's that you're you're setting a standard for people to follow, which is how change happens. And that's
018that's really really admirable work. And I also want to thank you for not bringing us samples of of the least favorite food. Several of us actually tried it when when it was brought to us by the club last year. So thank you for sparing us that. It's notable. I mean really we try not to be too disparaging of because it but it has improved so much. We still have a ways to go. I think that there are still, you know, there are requirements of taking commodities and there there are lots of intricacies to these food systems, but the the effort is there and Miss Alicia in our cafeteria, Mr. G, like people are on board to try and and serve better, healthier food to our kids, and we're so grateful. Yeah. And like Mr. G
019said, that's because of what you did. So, thanks. Um, I'm just curious. So, it's about 60 pounds a day going into the compost box. And it looked like there was like multiple bins, right? Are is the compost moving along in that sense? Because obviously it takes quite a while like compost at home with a barrel and I know how long it takes for ours to we're just two people with a little bit of in there, but I'm just curious how long it takes to you can use it for fertilizer. Well, it we would we fill up we always are putting into the first bin in the line and it takes about like I would say like a month and a half or something to fill up the bin. So then we have to turn it
020into the next bin. The next bin has something in it which it pretty much always does. You have to put it into the third bin. And if the third bin has something in it, you have to move that to somewhere for it to adhere before it goes. Yeah. So since January 9 months, so since January, we have our we've turned out our first bin um full bins. Bin number three is now turned out and is curing over um by the school garden in St. Barnabas. Um, and we're taking about six weeks on average to to fill a bin. Um, because the, you know, our recipe is so important and maybe somebody can speak to that, but a lot of what goes into the bin is not food waste, right? Um, you need to have a
021balance of of carbon and nitrogen um components. It's like the recipe is like half a bucket for every bucket of food scraps. half a bucket of chicken poop and a bucket. A bucket of like leaves or wood shavings and a bucket of the hay is like hay that is not like safe for the or not like it's like slightly old and like damp. Yeah. Thank you. So, it sounds like the food quality has gone up then. Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah. Okay. And so the woman that just asked that question is Teresa. So she's in our finance and she's been working with her colleague Jamie who just retired. So part of that reason, right, as you guys probably know, we were glad to hear that is is that it's been a long process, but
022finally the kitchen has been upgraded and then the final upgrades had to wait septic so then we could actually get things like hot food and cooking and all that in there. So it's good to hear that that's working. And then the milk question, maybe this is more for the adults, but why do you think that we have so much milk? Like does that just wait? Like do we not need to buy that much milk or do kids have to get receive a carton of milk no matter what rule? I will take this unless somebody else wants I'm just wondering just waste and even a budget. It just seems like that's just something that no one needs it. I think there are a couple reasons. Um, one is that we do what 2% milk is it?
023It's 1% and fat. It's 1% and skim milk. The the USDA recently changed in the last farm bill. I think there's now a change where whole milk is allowable. I think a lot of children drink whole milk at home and that might be something that is that they're not accustomed to. Um, and that might be promoting some food waste or milk waste. Um, I think that there is a requirement in the National School Lunch Program that you have to have um a meat or meat alternative. I think all of those rules and milk was for a long time one of the things that you had to get. And so I don't know if we just haven't like that's not something that's being offered. It's the first thing that's in the line. Lots of kids get
024it and it's an 8 o every time, right? So in addition to the packaging waste that not being not having a milk tank and again anecdotally one of the things um Alicia was trying to go through our disposable products um because now we have a dishwasher. They move so much um and so uh she was trying to get rid of some of the plastic cups and lots of students would go to the water fountain with the plastic cup that was intended to put you know pickles and carrot sticks in. um that's where they were in the line, but lots and lots of kids were going and getting water with their with their lunch. And so I think that there might be just like a they want to have something to drink, but right and and
025not necessarily an 8 oz pour of of milk that they're accustomed to. And the last question on milk, is it ser sorry for is the milk like is it does everyone get it in a plastic container like this or is it is it's an old milk old school milk carton. Um, and and I think it's an area, you know, I Sorry, what's the what's the plastic cup then? Is that because they take the milk cart and pour it into the cup? No. No. So, the milk the the plastic cups were introduced as a way of getting rid of like a backlog of plastic wear that the that the kitchen staff had. Okay. Um, in order to try and, you know, free up storage space and those kinds of things, but they were from the era
026when we didn't have the ability to wash things. So she's been putting them out as you know various sizes and shapes of things have been going through and then students were using those for water and not getting milk um because there was a cup available for them to have a glass of water with their lunch. Okay. So that muddies the water a little bit. I think if we did do a bulk milk tank we would reduce packaging. we would increase the number of dishes and that is something that we have to grapple with a little bit because it's just one person in our in our kitchen which if there's any ability to move the needle on that. Um because as you if you're getting more whole local foods that's going to require more prep time,
027right? getting a butternut squash is a lot harder to like, you know, make that into a food to a meal than it is to open a bag of, you know, chicken nuggets and pour them onto a tray. Um, so I think we need to be eyes wide open about what the downstream consequences of some of those things are. And so it would be more dishes but less waste potentially. Interesting. Okay. Um, and also even if you're not getting lunch, you still some a lot of people don't get lunch still get milk. Um, a lot of people do really like milk especially chocolate milk chocolate milk and um so milk even if they're not getting lunch. So it's not exactly uh same with the salad bar. It's not exactly the same as getting school lunch because
028pretty much anyone can take something and sell a bar take not just the people who are getting school lunch even if you have lunch. All right. Well, I watched I watched the thing on the way home on my flight the other day and it was all about food and your brain. And just so you guys know, all those colorful foods are really good for your brain and then it was also about the plastics because the plastics are not good for your brain. So those are two things I was just asking about just interesting small brains. [Music] I mean big brains but my son at the high school by the way. So we make him his lunch and he takes the lunch and then he eats the lunch at high school as well. So you'll meet
029there are some double dippers here too. No. Do you have a question? No. I it got answered. Yes. All right. Well, thank every everyone for the time and awesome presentation and all the hard work. Thank you. Yeah, there's so much worth it because it [Music] I see update on the agenda, but it's right. It was getting really quick. Okay. Yeah. We'll do the grant presentation first. Sure. So, um just go. Um so, Jim, I see you online. We are going to do the enrichment grant presentation if you can hang out. I didn't realize you or Rebecca were going to be on tonight. Um, but I think you are. I see you there. So, what we'll do is right after this, we'll do a quick PTO report and then we'll move the edund update to the
030first item on the business requiring discussion. If you want if you want to move Jim in so we can talk. Jim, Jim's our state rep. Jim, can you hear us? hasn't accepted. Okay. Okay. So, why don't we uh when he accepts I'll jump back in. Okay. Great. Are you doing representation? Yes. Yes. All right. So, I had an enrichment grant to continue a master's program that I've been doing through the Vermont Mathematical Institute. And this is my first year started in the summer of last year. I have just finished my first year thanks to this grant and the classes that I took on the grant this spring were two credits of number theory and one credit of sort of class lab. So, I was going to talk about those. What it looks like um in
031the fall in the spring was that we go there are 11 people in my cohort. We go to Williston. We do math for eight hours on Friday, eight hours on Saturday. Homework in between. And then we have homework before we go back again the next month. Same thing, Friday, Saturday. So, there are three weekends that we go and do math for eight hours each two days. Um and that's the two credit course. In between I had a mentor assigned to me. Ingred Belmouth used to work in the district was my mentor. So she I was doing reflection online. She was commenting on it. She came watch me teach once and then that class culminated with what they call a symposium where I had to do a model lesson and uh I filmed it in my
032classroom and took data all sorts of things and I had to present it to a cohort of first and second year master students. So that's sort of what the structure of the program was. So the benefits to me and I have my board I'm very much lower tech um and partly for a reason which I'll get to sec uh there were a couple of benefits. This is the side me as a student. So number theory was something I hadn't done anything with ever. So, I was experiencing math, I think, in as close as possible to what my students experienced, like brand new math, things I didn't know, things that were hard sometimes to understand, things that by hour six my brain was just fatigued and hard to figure out. Getting to find like how do
033I learn from my teachers when I have questions? How do I talk with my colleagues, my classmates? Um, so this is just a lot of the math to me that was like stuff that if you had said to me, what is this before? I had no idea. We were doing this sort of higher level math. And so that experience was me learning and I think really feeling how students feel. So I got that out of it, but really a lot of it is me as a teacher and the goal is sort of what I can bring away as a teacher. So, in the number theory class, even though there was all that crazy number theory work that we were doing, a lot of that can be modified even for my fourth graders. So, our cohort
034has teachers that teach everything from first grade through high school. Um, and so depending on the classes that we're taking, it hits different people's levels. We've done some things that were very squarely fourth grade. This is obviously not, but we did a lot of problems about combinations. And I can do combination problems with my students. Instead of the really intense combinations where our answer is there are 9 million something combinations, they're doing smaller ones like I have two hats, I have three shirts, I have four pairs of shorts, how many different combinations can I wear? Um, we do a lot with divisibility rules in fourth grade. If I want to be able to figure out if something is a factor of a number, it's really beneficial to not have to sort of count it all
035the way out. And there are divisibility rules to figure out if a number is divisible by three or nine. And I learned some new ones even that I didn't know better and clearer understanding of sort of why the four were rule is what it is, why eight is what it is. And so now if you give me a 12digit number, I can tell you if it's divisible by all sorts of things. So there's ways to apply it to k my kids also challenge problems. Every year I have some kids in my class who want math at a higher level. And so again, some of the even crazy stuff like different bases, working in different bases, I was able to do that with some of my students who wanted to try something different and something challenging.
036And I'll tell you what, learning how to add and subtract in different bases really tests, do you actually understand what adding and subtracting with regrouping is? And if you can do it in different bases, then you really understand what you're doing with base 10. There's lots of problem solving um in all of the classes. Every once in a while we just get a big problem. I never really thought I was the kind of person who wanted to work on the same problem for two days, but I've had problems like that in my BMI experience where like you come back to it and you think about it, you come back to it and two days later you're like, I've got it. So as a student, I've had that experience too that sometimes frustration if you muck
037about in it leads to that great aha moment. And so realizing I need to give my students that too. The lab course has really done a lot of giving me new teaching techniques. Um, so we have a lot of readings that we do. This is one of my greatest books and I actually read this before. We've talked about it a lot. We did a book group here. There's another book. We had a whole bunch of books that we have been encouraged to read and draw techniques. And so my communication with my mentor was all about I tried this new thing today. This is how it went. This is how I might do it next time. Um, and and reflecting on that. um my experience of a student seeing how the teachers teach me and they're
038following a lot of what is recommended in here. They rarely talk to us or lecture to us for any length of time. They give us a concept and they say okay now go do these problems and then the learning happens with us mcking about with the problems them coming around and giving us a nudge here asking a question there. Um there's a teacher, she is a friend hun. She's the VMI like guru everybody loves and we talk about her friend. Her technique is to go around she'll ask you a question then she'll walk away before you can answer it and make you turn to your partner and talk to your partner about it. So using her style the style of teaching that they've used I'm using in my classroom. I get a lot of feedback.
039So my mentor as I said on my reflection she also came in to my classroom but also a ton of feedback from my classmates. We spend all our time talking about math. Even when we have a break, we walk class around the building and we're talking about math like the whole time. All right. So, I'm on there some other fourth grade teachers. They use the same curriculum med like, "So, what did you think about?" We're just talking about it all the time. And so, that's just the collegial conversations. I'm coming back all the time with new ideas that people are trying out. Some of these, you know, someone said when you're trying to get kids to try a new strategy, you have a problem. Each kid gets a problem. They do the first step and
040then they hand it to their neighbor. their neighbor has to figure out, okay, if this is the first step, what am I going to give this a second step? Just all these just little different tricks and ways of going about math. So, I'm one year into a three-year program. It's been fabulous. It really has sort of re-energized me. Um, I'm bringing it back, talking to Ross McGee, talking to Rick Wilson. He's been trying a lot of the stuff in fourth grade that I've been doing. We've been reworking sort of how we think and talk about math, how we teach math. Um, and it's been a great experience and I I'm so grateful for this support that this district gives both through enrichment grants and other sources. Robin's been great about getting a grant for me.
041Uh, because it's a big thing to do a lot of credits and to get through this program. We had somebody who had a drop out because their district wasn't supportive. They couldn't afford it. And so to feel like this is really valued, uh, is so important to me. And so I'm really grateful to that. If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer them. But question. Yeah. Does that book come in a adult learning theory version? Cuz I do a lot of adult teaching and I'm curious. This is applicable. I say I mean that he calls it grades K through 12, but I think it's right across the board. Oh, I forgot to say like the reason I'm using this, this is one thing I got from him. He says you should be doing your
042math on what he calls vertical non-permanent surfaces. So now instead of kids sitting down paper and pencil, we do most of our math work in partnership standing at whiteboards like this. I have eight of these in my room and the kids set them up all over the room and then they stay in there and work. Keeps them up and active. They like the non-permanent, the making mistakes, erase, making mistakes, erase. It's so much different than writing on a piece of paper. In fact, some kids now will say, "Can I use a little whiteboard to do this instead of the paper?" Um, and so that that's why I partly did it on here is just to show you this is our system. If you come in in math, we'll have them set up around the room.
043But I think the I just my Amazon. Yeah, I was say I'm on this committee and it's probably no offense to any of the other board committees. It's the best one to be on because it's super cool and inspiring to see how what the teachers are excited to learn about and to bring back to the classroom and to like feel your energy and I can feel your engagement. It's really exciting. So, thank you for sharing with us. So, I just wanted to say that I've had the good fortune of sitting in your classroom and you're always such an amazing teacher. Thank you. And but honestly, one of the things I appreciate things outside of the classroom and high level opportunities to grow as a teacher. So, kudos to you for being willing to always do
044that. Yeah, my brain has hurt this much, but in a good way, like a really good way. And I find myself asking some of the questions kids like but why would I actually care about that? Like why do I need to know that level and why do you use mod modular arithmetic? And um you know it's it's really interesting to be in the role of student. I think it's hard as an adult to get in those places where you're completely outside your zone. And math actually is my zone. It was my thing I loved the most but I'm being pushed to a level I've never done before. Yeah. I just want to give an appreciation for you also bringing back your excitement to the other staff members and trying to get other people invested and
045interested and really using our funds resourcefully to bring about deeper learning for everyone. Thank you. Thanks. So Vermont Mathematics Initiative is it like a school like what is it? So they are currently housed through the Vermont Technical College. So that's how my credits come there. They have had different houses as they've gone around, but it's its own separate uh I guess nonprofit. Okay. And then you so you would go there for the most of the classes, but that's interesting. So they they also came people came here while you were teaching. So I have my mentor Ingred Dollith and she lives in Hanover. So we have people scattered. We have a student in Troy, New York, like all over the place, mostly Vermont. Uh there's a raceful teacher who's in the cohort ahead of me. Um
046and uh so mentors are in different parts of the state and so Ingred does she does a lot in this sort of general region and so that's the only part where they come to you right the rest of it we get the class but it's interesting is the first I've seen where it's actually kind of also a part of the classroom usually the trans parents people go someplace and then they come back to the classroom or is this one seems like no it's so helpful to have someone come watch come into the classroom and I think in the past via MI you had multiple visits from your mentor and it's possible next year Ingred will continue to be my mentor and next year I'll get visits with her also each year you focus on something
047different so they're doing action research in the second year so that's what I'll do next year and then I think they do some sort of data something in the third year and you have your mentor all the way through and in the past they have visited more they're facing some funding issues as everybody is um so we don't get as many in-person visits with our mentors but it is really helpful to have someone who's read everything I've read. She's recommending books to me. Have you read this article? Um, it's really helpful. Yeah. And also, our cohort's only 11 people, so everybody everybody knows everybody and it's really helpful, too. Super. Well, thank you, Becca. That was awesome. Glad it's working out. Okay. Um, on to our PTO report. Do I [Music] see anyone's online [Music]
048for anyone's online for PTO if that's okay? Um, okay. Uh, so we'll move on now to our business discussion. And as I said, I see Jim's on. I think what we'll do is we'll move to our ED funding update is the first item which is item D. We'll bring that up to a um quick background. I did ask both of our two reps, Rebecca and Jim, to if they would be willing to give us a quick update tonight is a quick background. There is a lot going on at the state level and it's moving so rapidly that when I heard from Rebecca last week, she actually said, "You know what? an update is probably not particularly useful because things are moving through the House and the Senate at rapid fire speed. Um, so it's hard
049even to keep up and things are changing by the day. So an update today may not be at all relevant tomorrow, but I do see and she's been they both been sending us updates at least myself and Neil, which we can go over quickly. I actually said let's keep this on the agenda. Um, and I do see Jim online. So, Jim, do you have anything that that you want to specifically um discuss tonight? Um, well, you summed it up pretty well. Things are moving very fast. Um, and Rebecca and I both agree. We sit right across from each other in ways and means that that there's nothing definitive that we can say other than the fact that we're very concerned about where where things are going on several fronts. One of course has to do
050with with property taxes and how we're going to survive this situation at the present time. And the other one is as we watch the Zoe Saunders plane or whatever it is progress through House and Senate, something that I've said over and over again and will continue to say is I'm very concerned about how decisions are going to be made by in these new very large districts with a new regional board of people who in large part aren't going to know each other when they get started. We may know each other casually, but that's not saying very much. And as you all know, our small schools, medium schools, Hannover High School, um are entities that formed long long over a long period of time and they have their own culture well-developed for very good reasons. People
051trust each other. They know each other. You know what the concerns are and you work hard together to solve problems even if occasionally you disagree, which is part of the process. And so I um one of my majors was anthropology. Rebecca may be tired of hearing me say this, but without some people with an anthropological anthropology focus on how the culture forms in schools and particularly if we're creating wholly new huge v boards that are going to have a lot of responsibility. I'm very concerned about how they're going to function. um how are they going to hit the ground running and being told that here are your responsibilities in this many months from now you need to know what you're doing um if you don't mind a funny anecdote from a long long time ago
052the only thing that I can see that here know that may be um somehow appropo is is where does a select board come from I don't know if people here know it but if you study medieval history or read medieval history you'll know that during the time of Henry VII and that was quite Quite a while ago, Henry absconded with the um the resources of the parishes to fight his his wars in Europe. And so people in different parish communities were selected to figure out what the heck to do. And um select boards, they had to start from scratch, but they didn't have the problems. Well, maybe they did. You know, take your choice. Um, but that is an an example of what happens when you throw people together and say, "Okay, you you guys
053are going to form solutions here." Um, I'm sure those weren't things that got formed overnight. And um, so as a part-time anthropologist, but also as a longtime representative, I'm very, very concerned about how this is going to work out and whether Well, let me back up that sentence. I don't think that Zoe Saunders and Governor Scott have a clue of the kind of problems that they are throwing at you guys to solve. It's our job to come up with a structure and we can do that and there are parts of the House and Senate bills that have outlines of a structure but is at who makes the decisions and how does that happen is an unknown quantity at this point in time and I find it very concerning. So that's my short version. Nice to
054see you. Um we're glad to be on call all the time, but um as we know colle collectively um the situation is evolving as we speak and sometimes it does seem that the the sand is shifting beneath our feet particularly with we haven't seen the Senate bill the one we thought we saw um which hasn't been voted out um would do catastrophic things to um property taxes in in the town I live in and the town you guys live it. So, um you can be assured if that's where that bill ends up, we'll vote no, but then we'll try to fix whatever parts of it within it we can. Um and we'll see where we go. So, it's over to Rebecca. Rebecca is actually on her way here in person. So, um she will be
055here shortly. We can keep this conversation going on this topic or we can um move on to something else and then when Rebecca arrives we can pick this up again in the interim Neil any question is fair game if you want to fill the I think um yeah thanks Jim I think just to back up quickly and maybe Neil can also go through and I know we have a lot of people online but if anyone's watching this recording maybe just to um set the table a bit you got you got right into some of the concerns Jim and I think so really broad strokes folks a few highlights of what's been proposed since day one. So you were talking about the board. So the Zoe Saunders proposal is is to basically create the equivalent of
056five SAUs within the state of Vermont which would obviously be you know uh tens of schools and and obviously thousands like what 30,000 kids per district or something like that potentially. It's a it's they're big board and obviously I don't even know what would happen here in Norwich because it would mean I think that we basically wouldn't be here tonight and we'd be answering to the board for the entire if you look at the map they basically carved up the map into five the map of Vermont into five zones and we'd be part of kind of the southeastern zone. Um, and then the other big thing that they proposed is some things around classroom sizes. So they're going to stipulate how small classes could be or how large, you know, actually how large they could
057be. That seems like it's actually moved out of the latest budget. So that's a good thing. Um, and then one of the bigger things is also what they call a foundation formula, which is what many states have where basically every town would basically get a set dollar amount per child. And then if you read it, they they've got various models. I think they've got plans A through D right now, and they seem to be focused on C. Not exactly sure what that is, but it sounds like it's kind of using a formula for of student waitings. um you know maybe moving some of the wings around from act 127 but what the initial results are at least the modeling shows and why Jim said he lives in that it's going to be bad for them
058and us is just like act 127 for Norwich at least it would mean a 27% at least reduction in our budget so 14.5 million is what our net spending is of expenditures plus less revenues or plus revenues equals 14.5 million and basically we have to cut our budget by $4 million which is obviously difficult and then effort I think is actually worth I think it's a 30% decrease is what they would need and then there's other districts that are getting big increases some from a percentage perspective huge from a dollar perspective smaller but there's also some districts that are you know they're much bigger than ours and are getting you know a 10% and I did some numbers It looks like about 25. It's kind of a at the end of the day and again
059we'll get this when Rebecca gets here maybe it is a bit of a zero sum game because the base number is not changing. It's basically using all the spending for 2025 fiscal year 2025 setting that is a flat is assuming that's going to be the same spending for the following year. And then what it does is about 25% of the schools have budget cuts of 10% or greater and about 25% of the schools have budget increases of 10% or greater and then everyone else is in between. So you have a massive shift in basically resources that's being imposed where some towns are losing a bunch of capacity and other towns are gaining a bunch of capacity. And back to our district, how do you cut 4 million? The 14.5 that I mentioned is our total
060Dresden budget for both handover or Hover High School, RMS and MCS, right? MCS is only so eight sorry eight and the other the remainder and that's of don't forget the 145 includes about a million and a half or so of revenue. So our total budget's actually higher than that. So, um, anyways, that's kind of a Did I explain that right and I'll turn over to Neil quickly and I see Rebecca's here. So, we are actually in the midst of just explaining some of the highlights. Rebecca, we just kind of went through the five boards, went through the foundation funding formula, went through the fact that the class size thing, at least it looks like it's taken out and the fact that the initial modeling it looks like it could be a 27% hit to Norwich
061and a 30% hit to the herd. And Jen just gave um an introduction as well focused on the boards. He's still on there. No, Jim's actually online here. So, she's actually on the thing. And then Rebecca just arrived um who worked with Jim as well. And Rebecca, maybe just turn, you know, do you want to say anything first or and I didn't know that you guys were coming today, which is great that you're here. So, thank you. You know, I thought that you were not going to basically do this, but this is awesome because it was originally going to fall on my mostly Neil's shoulder. shutting meals off because All right. I'm sorry. I thought we were coming in at 7:30. It's perfect now. I said come in at 7:30 and your email said I
062don't think we need to cuz things are so open here. I don't want to miss anyway. So, but I'm perfect. You're here at 7:30 right on time. So, why don't we just Why don't we ask you Jim made the comment that he and you are expressing concern and and voting down what's going on. I guess I'm curious. Do you have company in your um not enough so Jim I think there's multiple things that I don't I'm so sorry I missed Jim's speaking and so so Jim sorry just to replay Jim kind of was focused mostly on the on the SAU consolidation and the Zoe Saunders and and Governor Scott kind of overall picture and just that it's probably not the most well thought out and how is that going to work and pathology background which
063you said you've heard way too much as pregnant you missed He talked about just how that's you know he's not used this is not you need to look at the actual how school boards function in individual towns and anyways and here we are and and Jim is probably using characteristic Jim understatement um but you know I think that's probably polite at this point but um I Jim I don't know what you said I think I I do feel like I have to table set a little bit because everybody needs to know things are going to get rough no matter what even if we do nothing it's going to get rough And Jay, you're probably following the news. We've already lost some of the title two. They're coming after school-based Medicaid. They've moved IDA over to
064AHS. They can't get rid of IDA without Congress, but they can zero fund it and then distribute the grants directly to school districts bypassing AOE. If that happens, we will lose a lot of positions at AOE. And I say this um without even talking about the mess we're in as a state. Um you probably heard news and go to Digger. without finally in the paper. We're looking at a 200 million shortfall related to just health care in Vermont. And if we don't bind that under a couch cushion in the next couple of weeks, you're looking at potentially 20% increases in health insurance rates in the coming year. So, we're we're in pretty rough shape even before um the the federal cuts hit. So, I think we're all going to need our best brains trying to
065figure out how to do this right. Um, and try to figure out how to focus on what matters for kids. Um, and I would be misrepresenting the situation if I didn't sort of level set that here. That said, what I heard loud and clear from communities and Jim has said the same. People are worried about costs. No one said, "Please turn our education system on its head and upside down because we haven't had a healthcare crisis." So I think part of what you're seeing is um uh um you know where the the differences in the general assembly about what actually is the right thing to do are starting to perk up in the ser into the service. Now house passed over a bill. It will be the same bill. It has gone through Senate Ed
066and I'll highlight some of the specifics that I find particularly concerning right now. It will go it is currently in Senate Finance. They are taking um testimony on it right now. pretty unclear to me from talking to them there. Even the people in the committee aren't sure what's going to happen. I'm fine if it goes to conference committee, which is where it goes when the bills differ and it does like right now. I would rather hold on with what we've got than try to make chaos with something that doesn't not evidence based. And and I and I don't use that word lightly, but there is no data behind some of the changes that are being made now. I can't support them. I suspect you will ask them not to support them and hear what they
067are. So, um that's sort of the the context. This is not hugely unusual. There's some things that we have been trying to do when Jim said we've been pushing back. One example is we actually are I think maybe two of three people who voted against the yield bill in the house. um because it uses 120 million in surplus to buy down tax rates on the budgets you already voted for which means next year you are walking into a 12 cent clip right out of the gate or you know maybe 10 cent clip right out of the gate that's hugely problematic because we know things are only going to get rougher as a business owner when we have a surplus we fix the roof we saw it away we try to figure out how to make
068it count I'm very disappointed that we chose to just buy down your tax rates and we're leaving you high and dry next and we will continue. Unfortunately, that's out of the Senate. There's nothing we can do about that. Jim and I have also been pushing back hard on a bill that's around economic development and housing. We desperately need housing. We've been trying to put a goal on it because JO has been signaling in every nonpartisan way that they can that this was a huge drain on the ed fund. And obviously, if you take revenue out of the ED fund, as you know, somebody else has to pay higher taxes to cover the gap. And our point is things are so unstable right now. You cannot be increasing this burden. We are going to lose the
069battle on tip, but we are going to win the battle on significantly reducing the impact. And um we're still working on that in our committee. I'm sorry, you lost me there. Um you said what what are they taking from the edge? It's they're using um it's tax increment financing. Districts that are putting in municipal infrastructure projects um are allowed to not pay their full education share, for example. So you will have to make up that revenue someplace else to hit ed spending. But as you know the ed fund is selfbalancing. So when people take out revenue in one place somebody has to pay more to make it up someplace else. If that bill I mean it was pretty much you know open season and it's you know yeah sure I'd love to get municipal waste
070water in Norway. We really hope you step on it and encourage the select board but we shouldn't kid ourselves like that. you know, it'd be great. It would actually help you solve the high tax problems here, but it's gonna cost. And so, we've been trying to put some strong guard rails on that. And I also have an amendment on the floor tomorrow, which I did not check with you. I'm sorry, but I it says that districts only have to pay for pre kindergarten if it's offered in a public setting. And that's because what we're seeing statewide is, you know, all the same regulatory. There should be no difference. But you know, if you are in a place and you are paying tuition vouchers to a private setting, it might be a religious setting. It might
071be a setting that is discriminatory in hiring. It might be a setting that doesn't serve kids with challenging behaviors or that doesn't serve kids with disabilities. And my sense is that if a community has made a commitment to a community school that they should be allowed to operate inclusive environments. And so what this says is if you operate a prek like we do here in our own school, you will pay for that, but you are not on the hook for anything outside of the public school system. That would reduce your tax rates about a cent. It's gotten you some feedback um because it puts people on the record. If you vote against the amendment, you are voting to support discrimination and you're voting for higher taxes because we need to start calling the question on
072these issues. We have to we have to be talking about what we can afford and we also have to be talking about public education. And you'll hear why when I tell you the joys that are in the Senate bill. Jim, did you go through what's in the Senate ed version or should I do that? Say again. Did I Did you go already? What was in the Senate ed version? I haven't read the new bill. Sorry. Can you just back on the TI thing one more time? So that so this new because we just went our whole focus on tip has frankly been what's going on in handover with the whole tip thing for downtown. I knew that was even going on. Yes, it's coming here too. I didn't realize that that there was anything related
073to tips in Vermont. There is related. We already have t tax increment financing. It takes about seven cents out or 7 million which is about half a cent on your tax rate out of the ed fund. We also pay for current use out of the ed fund. That's about I think six and a half cents on your tax rate. uh early college, which is in many cases online college for kids who choose to do that instead of go to high school. That's probably another half a set right now. So there's a whole series of programs. What this was, and I will share the JFO note on it, the joint fiscal note on it, was basically any town, any municipality that wanted to do an infrastructure project to support housing could do that and partially finance
074it out of the ED fund. But there were no guard rails. Um, and I think what got Jim and I worried was when we said take the 120 120 million and use that instead and no one wanted to bite. It said to me, well then you're expecting over 5 years to spend a lot more than 120 million. So what we're looking at now is some guard rails on that. Um, because the the affordability issue is real. I mean, people say Norwich is a wealthy community. It's one of the wealthiest community in the state. I'm getting emails from seniors who pinched their pennies and now their h their property values have doubled and they don't know how to pay their bills. So, we do have to pay attention to this. So, I you know I don't
075want to belabor it. This is all stuff you're dealing with. But, um that's that. Let me tell you what happened. We you you've already read and some people are aware of what came out of the house. What came out of the Senate Education Committee is quite different and it has a very different intent. And um actually if you want to see a summary I can send you the link of what they presented today in Senate Finance where the chair of the education committee in the Senate presented to the Senate Finance. It's different from the House bill in several ways. Um and I did send this side by side so you can compare but some key differences. Um and I think you were mentioning this with the task force. It sunsets the um the non-political the
076apolitical commission which included members who represent the field who have experience as superintendent experience as schoolboard members who represent operation of school districts as well as a state board and a secretary and it replaces it with a task force of four house reps and four senators. So if your Lauren bells aren't going off, they should be because they are people with not necessarily any experience in education at all whose job is to take their pens and redraw the map by November. And I think the most telling piece in that section is they have they have support of JFO ledge council and digital services and the people who do the mapping but they are not getting any support from the agency of education. So when you are reorganizing education and you're not even talking to the
077agency of education, that tells you something about what's motivating the work. So to me that is a a a non-starter and it suggests how politicized this process has become. Um it also strips as you mentioned the class size requirements and it restores SUS. The purpose of restoring DSUs was to allow for the continued existence of tuitioning. And anyone who's lived through Act 46 and this region was fair because of the diversity of districts knows that Act 46 hit the skids when it came to tuition because you can't merge districts that operate public schools with districts that pay vouchers. And that's why we didn't get more merging than we did. They're starting to hit that again. The reason they didn't want in the Senate school districts is because you'd either have to make everybody operate public
078schools or you'd have to make everybody within that district pay tuition and the more people who operate public schools. So the people who believe in paying vouchers want supervisory units. So that's why that was put in. The next thing they did uh is and actually I think Garrett you mentioned that with respect to funding it feels kind of zero some I sent Rebecca a little note and I did say it was zero some I said things like does this mean that key factors in the formulas are missing which I think then you kind of got into that so I was trying to wrap my head I I actually love that little and I've embellished it to zero some cage fight basically decided how much they wanted to spend, what what was it being spent on
079and subtracted that and then they rearranged the furniture to get everybody in within that that cage fight. Right? So I think that's exactly what happened and what they decided is that they didn't like the way the weights were working because they wanted different weights for themselves. So they changed the weights. There's no empirical basis. This is a lawsuit waiting to happen because if you've done a cost factor analysis and the house's version was based on what it actually cost to educated kid in Vermont. The governors was based on some hypothetical Vermont that doesn't exist. But you can't once you said this is what it cost. You can't make up weights and make up a base and defend it. It's indefensible because it's not reflective of the reality. So um they did change it. They added
080uh weights for middle and high school even though the data shows that on average that doesn't matter but they to do that they also lower the base which means that you will get be getting less at the elementary level. just, you know, just hugely problematic. But, um, they also changed some of the other rates as well and they put some more money into things like, um, CTE that they wanted to expand funding to. And uniquely, they decided to there are four schools in the state. There are high schools that are called comprehensive schools because they provide subCTE programming within the um the this the school. And the Senate chose to take the two private schools that are comprehensive schools and let them set their own tuition. And they chose to ignore the two public schools
081that are pretty high poverty rurally isolated schools. They are not allowed to set their own tuition. So you're starting to get the flavor of the bill a little bit where we're headed here. So um they also changed the mission or the intent. It's no longer about high quality public education system. It's about governance reform. Let's just make no mistake. This is not about education anymore. And it requires when this task force redraws the state, it's requiring the t the the the legislature and the task force maps to preserve access to tuition vouchers in independent schools in regions that currently have them. That's what it does. But there is no requirement that it presents that currently have public education. So you can see this asymmetry just comes all the way down through the bill. Um it
082also restored changed the criteria for how we decide which independent schools are allowed to get vouchers. Uh notably the governor had recommended 51. Um that by the way includes some schools with only eight kids because you know if you're a school of eight or 10 kids, one kid is 10% of your enrollment. You only need you know five of them and you're right there. Um but it also extended voucher payment out of state about 25 miles. So who did we pick up? Like you know you know the government governor has said you don't need to do these. The house dropped bomb let back some more schools in and now the senate has thrown the doors open again. So we're picking back up religious schools outside Vermont only and we're picking up prep schools. So you
083will pay more to send other people's kids to prep school. And it picked up a number of smaller independent schools around the state. the ones in our region, the Sharon Casm that they would have been in anyway, but this is opening up the door to some of the 10 kids, high schools with 10 kids, 12 kids. Um, they did have some very cute language that was designed to cut out um some of the religious schools within the state. I don't know if that language will withstand a court challenge. And as you know, we are being litigated with a new lawsuit every month, it seems. Um, I, you know, again, I I don't know that this is going to achieve what they think. So, that's kind of where we are. And needless to say, they they
084weren't supposed to address the weight, the funding at all. They chose to anyway because they wanted to get their pet projects in. It's now sitting in the Senate. Unclear where it will go from there. Um, so we're watching them with your hawk eyes and talking to our colleagues. But I think we're pretty committed to I mean, you know, I believe prevention, not harm reduction, but we are pretty committed at the very end to harm reduction at the moment and not doing anything that really upends and destabilizes when we know we're looking at a pretty unstable environment. I wish I had those things to say. I'm pretty angry right now because they took institutions on which our kids depend and they have hyperpoliticized them and they are casually and carelessly talking about boundaries and funding in
085ways that I think are really pretty disrespectful of the incredibly hard work our schools do every day to show up for kids, be there when they need a helping hand, and make sure they get get their chance. So, yeah, I'm a little angry. Um and we'll continue to advocate, but what we really need from you is what are your priorities so that we can represent those well. All right. Well, thank you for the uh usually Neil is Neil's actually I think right now I'm I'm not tired this evening of the bad news. The question I continue to have is, do people in our communities understand how potentially painful the impact is going to be of what's happening? And like I can just imagine, I think that even people in a wealthy community who have well
086feel an impact from taxes going up and what happens when families start leaving Vermont because it's just no longer affordable to live here. Period. That's just a personal statement. It's not a word statement. I hear you too. And I'm worried because the when they redid the numbers, I mean, we were looking at a 15% hit and then some ability to raise beyond that. So there was overblock spending if you could raise beyond it and that would support redistribution. But when you start talking about reducing your available funding by 30%. There's no way. And when you're in an interstate district, there's no way that you can address that. In fact, the legislature, joint legislative council said to us, and if you read the House version, there's some exceptions around the interstate district. It doesn't help that,
087but it's an acknowledgement that the interstate is actually a federal entity, and you actually can't tell them what to do. And also they realized that because you can't merge an interstate and the above block spending was tied to the district with the smallest or the least tax capacity that would be one of the unmerged districts probably Rivendell. You would actually screw the excuse me you would actually disadvantage the entire state. And so they actually put in a carveout where they mentioned the the interstates not to protect the interstates but to protect everybody from not the fact that they don't even know how to handle the interstate. So you know again I didn't hear people say turn it all upside down by tomorrow. The governor has been very clear he wants these maps before we go
088home. It is not going to happen. The the house and the senate agree that needs to be pushed out. The House is less aggressive on timeline, right? Is they on a slower timeline than the Senate. You know, I lived through Act 46. I had tons of people at the agency still who worked in school districts. They worked in school governance. They've been through mergers before and Act 46 almost flattened us. The idea that this agency with this lack of expertise and able to support them, to me, frankly, we thought, so I think we're gonna we're going to push back on that, too. Thank you. I'm I'm hopeful that recoveries are starting now that we're getting close to the end. They're starting to see it. It's just dangerous and you can't with this level of instability.
089You you know, I used to at 46 we used to say when people let go of one trap and reach out to catch their partner, you can't take away the crash mask. I feel like we have no crash mask and they're about to tell you to let go and that's that's not okay. It's just not okay. So, I mean, I guess, yeah, to start this off, I guess, yes. So, I I mean, I guess I'm not going to too much comment because what you just described is is basically chaos that's hard for us around the table here to put our hands around it. I walked into the other room this week. I told my wife what was going on. She's like, you can't control you can't solve this on your own. Like, this is this
090is like you can't stress about this. this is going to have there are people that are dealing with this in the day-to-day. But anyways, the bigger thing though is I think okay, all that aside, I guess I I always go back to what are we trying to solve for, which I understand like the funding systems out of control, spending's too high, tax too high, and I always go back, I have this conversation with Neil that you go back to the Brigham versus the state, which I put in that email to you and I I went back and looked at it says that the state must ensure substantial quality of educational opportunity throughout Vermont. And then I'm like, okay, so you have a foundation funding formula that provides that equal opportunity and then allow towns to
091provide more than that that because you know higher cost or what it seems like there is a solution for this but it seems like we're not seems like they're focused on a lot of other things than the than the core problem. Is that a correct? I think so. I mean I because how does all the sorry inter you know when you talk about all these small schools and then you know the voucher system it just seems like that's actually that's that was one of the biggest problems with act 46 I thought is that you needed to have all these small schools start to consolidate and that they just don't so if you if you think about those small schools if you took the small schools in the state and close them you actually would not
092save much because They're so small and they actually don't represent a lot, right? I think what you you because you're still going to have I mean big costs. We you know I'm a small business owner. We're trying to figure out where to go. We look at what's driving our cost. We don't just say okay let's change how we our ownership structure is. We say what is making us expensive and what can we do about it without affecting quality. And I kind of wish this body had started that way. Unfortunately, we took on its face the governor's premise. You had a you were average 14.6% increase in your average tax rate. Ergo schools too expensive. No one challenged, no one pushed back and said, if a 100 million of that is related to healthcare, is it
093possible there's something else going on here? Um, you know, and there are all these other things. Special ed, I mean, we I have JFO do some back and the envelope work and I can share it with you. If you look at the disabil, first of all, we're not over identified as kids as having disabilities compared to other states, I don't think we have more disabled children in the state. I don't think we do as good a job of early intervention. And that's not speaking about this school. I'm just saying on average, the variation across school districts and the number of kids who are the proportion of kids who are identified ranges from 5% to I think over 35% being identified. If you can do early intervention as very strong primary instruction in ways that help
094children thrive without identification, that's a good thing. I mean, every kid needs the help to be their best. But it's more than that. When they broke down, I I've been doing a lot of data requests from the agents that are not their friend right now. But when you look at what's driving extraordinary stance, it's two disability categories. it's students um with on a with autism spectrum disorders or it's students who are identified as having emotional disturbance and in Vermont there's a very high correlation between that and poverty which suggests in some cases kids may be really hurting but they may be really hurting from trauma and to just label them as having a disability when they're experiencing severe trauma you know that's a big deal and that probably explains why we have a more a
095higher level of identification, it doesn't necessarily mean we're serving them well. And you know, I was in Hartford earlier this week and they were talking about we were talking about the heart program. I don't know if you place children there ever, but they have an in district run program that provides services in house for students with with autism on the autism with autism spectrum disorder. And I think, you know, I don't remember what their total tuition I think it's like 65,000 which seems high but it's actually reasonable for a student with pretty significant serious needs. There are other districts that are placing kids the very same children will be placed in a forprofit specialized school that costs $150,000 or $200,000. The problem is our system of delivery is so fragmented that we are providing very
096inconsistent care sometimes at very high cost. If I were queen for a day, I would have started with places like that where we know that we're having very high costs and not getting the outcomes and said, "Okay, what is it we could do? Let's implement that Bosey's bill which passed." And the agency said, "Well, we don't really understand it, so we haven't done anything." They literally said that in health education. I'm like, "Hey, that's your job." It's kind of it's kind of my fault. We need to hold them accountable for implementation of stuff like that. And we have to talk not so much about class size ratios because I think that was or minimum class size was the staff to student ratios. And you may not know this, but the last data set I saw
097actually has the highest ratios in the state here in Norwich. And you're only what five 5 to one I think it is or just over 5 to one. But we have school districts that have two kids for every adult in the building. That's a lot of adults and we should be asking because if you have that high a level of staffing, it's worth asking. First of all, what are you giving up to get that staffing? And second, are you using are you deploying your resources into more bodies when really what you need to be focusing on is better first instruction and more strategic intervention. And so those are the kinds of questions that we ought to be having because we're not serving everybody well everywhere. We are you know that's true that's on the ratio
098at sorry at the Dartmouth daycare in the infant room and yes and so my point is if we were doing an evidence-based response to the current crisis and maybe this is something you're you're want to do. you you target those aspects or those drivers of higher cost with the data bank are places where we could make a big difference for kids and do it in a way that doesn't sacrifice quality. The governor's proposal when he actually get through the numbers I think I mentioned to the to we would have had to lay off half the people working in schools currently. That's how we get his numbers and the way he funds higher salaries is by laying off half the people working in school. Makes sense. Also, if you merge and you have to level up
099on salaries, you're leveling up. So, everyone's going to get more, not because of beneficence because we're so nice, but because that's how contracts work. And you know that from the leveling up of healthcare. So, I mean, I'm all in on supporting teachers. I'm pretty sure the teachers I know would be concerned if the way they got their $5,000 raise is because half their colleagues got fired because it becomes an untenable job, too. I think those are to your point I guess those are the kinds of issues that we're talking about. Oh, and Jim has too. I mean, follow up on your comment though about the ratio. I think that so that means that we are because when I look and I think I I tell you this I get I guess it gets frustrating because
100we as a school district are always everyone's saying oh Norwich is spending so much money but when you look and I did this when I first joined the board I didn't update it last year two years ago but Neil I think is if you look at our education spending year-over-year increases every year going back since even back in Tom Kenn it was pretty much every year is about two to 5% and some years it was actually decreasing that's not the tax rate, right? Because obviously the tax rate has nothing to do with but that's our actual spending on our schools. So every year we're not spending 10% increases or 15% increases, right? So when you're only increasing your budgets by like last year, I think it was only a couple percent. We're actually we're actually
101that's a that's a negative budget, right? Because the teacher salaries have gone up by more than that. The health care costs going up by more than that. So we're actually decreasing our budget by approving 2% increases. So that's where our challenge is even from this community is we're sitting here basically basically making flat to down budgets and we've been doing it now since I've been on the board. Right. I mean none of our increases have been over I don't think I can pull the data but I don't think we've approved education spending increase for Dresden and MCS combined of more than 5% since I've been on board. And I wish every and I wish every child had what our children have. I mean I think the reason one of the reasons that there was discussion
102about a new funding formula if you look at some of the highest poverty communities in Vermont Barry and Slate Valley, you know, Fair Haven in that area come to mind. When they got a lot more tax capacity, which they did under 127, they chose to continue to lower their budgets. And you cannot say with a straight face that those kids have a fair chance. They don't. Those districts, the power of the foundation formula is it raises the bar for those kids. And when those kids do better, we all do better as a state. There's some some things that don't make sense in this format. The other thing I didn't didn't mention this, but the people who did the waiting study said you should not wait districts for costs they don't have. districts that do not
103operate schools do not have the variable cost of trying to operate small schools. And what they did in the funding formula is they weighted tiny districts that pay tuition vouchers as if they were struggling to operate very small schools. So if you compare Norwich with our poverty ratio to some of the tuition towns with poverty ratios, we actually are they are gaining weights much more than we are. And that's because they're being treated as if they were operating small schools even if they're sending kids to you know build sexier academy or very large some of the largest schools in the state. So there are things like that that we can do that would make this formula a little bit fair but it's not going to make a big difference. It's still changing how the money
104goes around and Jim we can't I can't see your hand so he may and just one more question on that not I'm not gonna ask any more. So do you think Rebecca that can you do a foundation funding formula if with these you know potential to have some towns pay more with a penalty that works and doesn't result in that nor whatnot having to cut 30% of our budget or 4 million out of our $15 million budget. Is it possible? I think the House version was a lot closer. Um, and particularly because it's still allowed spending over base and I am very clear and you know we had enough time to figure out the whole state thing. It's very clear to me that we are going this community is going to have that are going
105to have to spend about because I don't know where you're going to cut. You can't sorry you can't cut at the high school level. And you know one of the reasons that the costs are high there I mean the class sizes aren't that small. my kids were there. It's because they we chose to pay our teachers as well. And that's not a bad thing. And also, how do you live here? I mean, I think if you how can you create a situation where the people who teach and take care of your kids can't even live in your towns? I mean, so I I don't fault that at all. But I think this formula is going to be challenging no matter what. And that's what we've done here, right? Because with Sean's come like we only
106have one or two teaching assistants. So even though our class sizes are and we just approved a policy two years ago to increase the classes so we've given ourselves flexibility and the classes aren't you know they're what 17 18 kids like they're not tiny classes I think one of them is 14 but they also have no teaching assistants anymore because we let go of all them which is how we kept our budgets flat. Anyways Jenn you had some comments. Sorry just a couple of things. One you were just recently talking about a foundation formula. Um we had foundation formulas prior to act 60 and the reason they failed is the go the uh legislature didn't fund them properly and if we're going to go forward with a foundation formula we need to some figure out
107some sort of guarantee that we actually put the money in put our money where our mouth is. Um, but the other thing is that um, well, a couple of things. Um, Act 60, there's a there's a movement out there that doesn't want to scrap Act 60 because they thought it was wonderful. But what happened was it failed largely because the demographics changed so radically in Vermont. So there are there the schools are, you know, a third empty or half empty or something like that. So when you do per pupil spending um the act 60 just clearly doesn't work and I don't know how many legislators have the stamina to try to refigure that out apparently not and not right now. Um and that may be unfortunate but that would be a lot of work you
108know um not that we don't like hard work but that's our job. Um but back a few moments ago or maybe a few minutes ago Garrett you were talking about um controlling for certain things you know if in order to manage your budget poor people spending and all that sort of stuff um and with utmost sympathy I would say Garrett it's very hard to control for anything when there's such chaos out there because we don't know what for instance Medicaid spending Medicaid V eligibility is so um integrated into much of our our education budget um since we don't know what on earth that the the president is doing um a lot of education spending is at the end of the day going to be topsyturvy and you can't control for that um as best you
109would want to. So, as I said, Garrett, with with ut utmost respect and and and and sympathy, um we'll work with you as best we can to control what you can control. But, um but Jes kind of difficult and um I guess we know that and so um we'll just have to play it um you know, week by week, I say would say. And we all recognize that and and we're in it together. difficult as it as it is, one thing you have from us is our our guarantee that the two of us will go to the mat with you every week if it's necessary to try to get through this. And when we finally see what the Senate sends over, um, we'll have some pretty good discussions discussions about that. And then we'll have
110to work as hard as we possibly can in the committee of conference to come up with something that is functional for education for educating our students in Vermont and also doesn't do catastrophic harm to our schools that are long established and doing excellent work. I mean, let's get with it sports fans. Um that's you know um regardless of what we say our educational principle or spending principles are um we have no business throwing out wellestablished school culture whether little big or small you know um I I follow very closely the work that Margaret Mlan's group is doing the rural school community elastic whatever they've changed their name but you know the group I'm talking about um they're becoming very articulate and very um poignant in what they say. But at the end of the day,
111no matter how much we want to, we can't find resources anywhere to to keep all those schools open as they've been functioning for the last decade or so. Can't do that. So, um I'm probably not being very helpful. I'm being blunt. We've Rebecca and I tell each other when we meet with you folks, we need to tell the truth. Um but here we are. So, I can just say Garrett and the rest of you in the in the room, um, we look forward to this continued conversation, and I don't mean to be corny, but it's going to be hard work, and we just need to explicitly keep in touch with each other because that's really what it's all about. And thank you for having us, and thank you for listening, and thank you, all of
112you, for the work you do. A couple more questions, Neil. Um, so it is, today is May 7th. There is a plan right now that I think session ends May 30th. There's there's a potential that this is the one and only meeting that this body would talk about this before some decision is made. And I guess I'm curious to hear from our reps. um you know when things go to conference committee things move pretty fast and there is not a whole lot of opportunity to weigh in and influence um what way things go. Uh is there a role in your mind that this body can play to you know help make sure that the outcome is as good as it could possibly be? Um, well, you're welcome, Neil, to call a special meeting given whatever
113your bylaws are, and we'll show up. That's our job. Yep. I'm pretty sure you reach out to I mean, I guess I would have three cautions and then a request. Um, the three cautions are to always remember, we're not thinking about today. We're thinking about 20 years from now. And I'm concerned that we're forgetting that this aging population we have will be a younger population at some point and we will have kids back. So what what is it we want to have that makes this a state that young families want to come and raise their kids? We can't lose sight of that. The other is something that someone in Straford said that I think was beautiful and I think we should all hold on tight to this which is that when we take care of
114the kids who need the help the most, we're actually taking care of all of us. And I think the same goes for communities. We have to work as communities together. We have to avoid the cage fight scenario that you are now being forced into. So to the extent that when you communicate to us, challenge us to rise. That would be helpful because it's getting pretty ugly right now. And then there are places that we need to make a difference. We need to tackle staff to student ratios. We did before the pandemic, we still do. the high schools. The one place I'll say we are really hurting kids is when we have high schools that are too small or middle schools that are too small because we can see the impoverished opportunities. So encourage the state
115to think about where consolidation makes a big difference and makes it quickly. And you know if you've got a high school with 40 kids, you are not preparing your kids right now. If you're one math teacher, your kid doesn't like that math teacher, you're not going into STEM. We can't look the other way on that. um special ed. We're going to have to dig in. There is a big piece of language in the bill that we pushed in the House that forces us to have a hard conversation about how we support kids. There's a reason your ratios are higher. You've got a principal who's been working on this for years and you can only do that when you've done the work that you need to do around instruction. So, those are the cautions that request
116I need two things from you. I need you to tell us what your red lines are. Where is it that we need to say heck no? Right? Make sure we know that because we are going to have very little time to respond to that bill draft when it comes down. But if you're clear about what those are, you can try to be reactive to those. And then the other is I would encourage you to consider calling, you know, putting on record to the legislature what our higher angel should be. What is it that, you know, you ask what are we, what's the problem we're trying to solve here? I think we've lost track of that. Feel free to tell us what's the problem we should be solving and call it what it is. And I
117just sent my chair a story about a woman who put salt in her coffee and spent the entire morning with a chemist and apothecary, a pharmacist trying to get the salt out of coffee. And then someone walked by and said, "Why don't you just pour another cup of coffee?" Maybe we need to go back and think about what is the problem we're actually trying to solve and what is the simplest thing to do. And you have a powerful voice. You know, you you have been first and foremost on some of the equity initiatives despite self-interest. That's a place of strength. Use that to help us remember what matters for our kids and what matters for kids here has to matter for kids in very late valley. But you know that and you've been consistent. So
118that's where you can help us. Yes, sir. Um, with that said, I mean, I understand our voice is important, but I'm wondering, um, it feels like a lot of voices need to be at the table as quickly and effectively as possible and as consistently as possible. And I work in a school where there was a group of very impassionate eighth graders who heard about the redistricting and realized what size of a district they were going to be in, which is basically up to Canada, and how far the communes were going to affect their fellow students and what that would mean. um and they're writing letters, you know, and I encourage that. And yet I'm wondering what is most effective and for you all to hear from do you need to hear from students? Like I
119know there was a mass protest during our break unfortunately at the state house. Did that make any impact? I mean, because it feels like we could collectively try to organize different groups of people to talk to in the most effective ways, but does it matter? I mean, if if the you know, if the governor if this ship is already s like I I'm I'm wondering what it takes to turn this ship around and how to most effectively get those voices in front of the people that matter. Um, beyond this group, I I mean, I just feel like school boards, there's only so much we can do. It needs to be everyone. I think it does. I think the challenge and somebody was asking me about um would a district be bad in terms of reducing
120the choices. The reality is when you look at where you know you make this point when you look at where people actually choose to go, all of those schools would have been in those bigger choices. So that argument is not persuasive because it would just be a bigger district that accommodate all those choices that everybody said they already want. So I think the challenge is we all are reacting in the moment to something that feels scary for ourel like you know in Straford there's real fear about the Newton school because it's far away it's hard to access if you lose that school you lose the community but maybe that's actually not the small school that needs to merge you know and I think people forget there are high schools in Chittton County that are too
121small to offer robust programming for their kids and are a fraction the size of Hammer High School. Maybe those are the schools that need to merge. we assume it's small and rural. I don't think those are the places that are struggling the most always. And so I think um I think it's challenging. The problem with being specific is you're always right a couple days behind, right? So people are just going to write it off. What's powerful is the big picture. We are in a moment of unprecedented instability. You have now burdened our tax rates in fiscal year 27 which ensure that we have more instability. We are trying to anticipate the potential impact of federal cut and make sure we're doing everything we can to be as resilient as possible. Is this the time to
122turn this upside down? That's the kind of question when we know full well these are the three things that are going to higher cost. And I I also I mean to appeal not to the better angels but to the self as angels. There is the point that the people with means will walk. And so by making it more difficult to live here, the people who have the means will choose to live elsewhere, leaving the people who don't have the means to make choices here, which means that you have less money in the coffer. I mean, you're just creating a problem that falls in upon itself. And I don't know, but what we're getting is amplification. We're just blowing it up. And yeah, I I I I haven't heard that argument like like at all and
123like at least in the papers or any I don't know. I just no one's really talking about what happens when people start voting with their feet. The data isn't there that they're doing it yet. That's part of the challenge. Yes. I mean, right. But they're not doing it because they don't No one knows what is coming. We've been talking about this for so long. It's sort of like this thing that it's not going to happen is suddenly happening. So, no one has voted with their feet yet. Yes, Jay. Rebecca, I think one of the most I guess realistic I mean the cold water that you threw on um into one of our conversations was just sort of the reality that there there's a ground swell in the state of people who are who are really
124feeling the pinch of high taxes and and their primary consideration is not the damage to the education system. is how can I get lower taxes? And that's really I think to your question to get people riled up about the changes to education. There's a lot of people out there that that are listening to the governor and saying, "Yeah, my taxes went up and you need to stop that spending." They don't they're not taking the time to learn sort of the the falsehoods that are within that presumption. And I thought that was an it was a sobering point for a lot of the people on those calls that we were having. Yeah. And I think we can't afford to not hear that, right? Yeah. But the flip side, and this is where I think Jim and
125I are losing the battle a little bit, is some of the things that you do, you do because we tell you to. And maybe pushing back on that, I know you I think you might be coming in to talk about lost revenue in the ed fund. I think they need to see a face. We've been advocating to have someone from the school boards sit on that tiff committee. So they have to look the school board member in the eye where they're voting to take more fun because right now the only people who haven't testified are people who work on school boards. surprise. Well, I mean, maybe I'll speak the last word as the chair, but I think having, you know, testified last year, I think if there's a message, and again, I sometimes, you know,
126feel like sometimes I'm, you know, I don't mean to be screaming at you guys through emails, but like, you know, when we I want to make sure that it's clear with you in front of us that at least here in Norwich, right? I mean our budget last year our budget principles guidelines was a 0% increase budget which again is actually a negative budget increase right so I mean if you look at our history it has been I would say very fiscally responsible budgets I mean pretty much a couple percent is kind of I think you mentioned like what can we control that we're when we're doing our budgets that's what we can control we can't control the tax rate we can control how much spending we have and then you know we've taken a lot
127of you We have taken steps I think to you know try to decrease our cost to bring those class sizes up to what's at least the teachers can handle. I mean like I said we've only I think we went from what 19 how many how many ed assistants do we have when you first started? 17 17 I was going to say 19 but 17 down to now two three one six six that's also special as well I guess but that's great shame. So, I mean those types of things and then I think what was I going to say and then I think that you know we and we we have an optimum when you look at Zoe Saunders graph that she had we're at the I mean MCS at 300 you said this again and
128Hover High at 650 or 7 it's at her peak of an optimal so we have that. So I guess the takeaway here is you know from a it's just very frustrating. I mean, I think we're all open to somehow reducing things further, but when I see 127 and then this thing here because of the dressing school district, it just says, "Hey, you need to cut 30%." Like, that's the type of stuff that keeps literally wakes me up at night and I'm like, "How how do we we can cut 5% or we can cut 10%." But like, how do you cut 30% and then how do you do that within Dresden? I think how do you do it with within Dresden? Beford has the same problem. How do you do it within that academy which isn't
129school the same issue a challenge to give more tough wealth a challenge that this community has it is probably the most privileged community in the state right now and the lack of affordable housing in Norwich is a big piece of why we have very little um waiting for students who are economically disadvantaged and this formula is designed to distribute money to the schools that serve disad disadvantaged kids. And so as long and I think this is where we're in the this cycle right now. As long as we become more and more unaffordable, we're going to have fewer and fewer kids and that actually well why our taxes are going up or technically you could spend a little bit less because the kids that we have technically are supposed are supposed to cost less to educate.
130But I and again I did this last year with Emily. that was a little bit, you know, on the when we were doing the testifying like, okay, our kids cost a little bit less to educate, but not 30% less to educate, right? That means we said we have to cut our entire MCS teaching staff. That means every kid here would come in, I guess, teach themselves because they live in nice houses. in fact actually point out that every building that's not a that's not a cost we we don't have it right right now it's clear that the Senate bill is going in the wrong direction maybe we maybe we won't succeed I think there are what concerns me is the lack of leadership on healthcare the lack of leadership on state mental health because there's
131been massive cost shifting on on mental health into the other. The lack of leadership on support for students with disabilities, lack of leadership on um you know, you've had good work here around supporting struggling learners. That's one of the most effective ways to bring down housing systems teaching rather than the start. So you're not serving the warranty for the rest of their time in school. Those are the kinds of things that actively driven at the state level and they are not being driven. We used to sit down and circulate this the staff to student ratio. I've got that data. I don't know if most districts have it, but if you saw that you had 2:1 and other districts had 5 to1, you might ask questions and say my name is wrong. Or if you see
132that variability, 31% of your kids are identified with a disability. And this district here is around the national average of 15. You might say maybe maybe there's another way to do this that does better for our kids, but maybe isn't quite so. And that was our last two two weeks ago, we had the grant um I'm sorry, what's your name? English the language woman who went to the grant and basically talked about how right that she was basically had this program and it was helping these kids basically figure out some of their learning issues at a very young age so that they were right is that that was the the impact of that and it was happening like fast I have I just have to say you didn't just reduce the number of par professionals
133you had principles worked really hard to support improve instruction. I mean, that doesn't just happen. And so, I hate to you have a team. Your school has a team that has made that possible. And it's remarkable. You should be pretty proud of that. Thank you. Well, thanks. Thank them. All right. Um I guess I'll end on the statement that I think my I'm always everyone at the state level at least since I've lived here seems very cerebral and thoughtful and it usually even though stress there seems to always be at least a thoughtful outcome. I'm not sure based on your presentation tonight there but I moved from Rhode Island which I thought was the state that was on the precipice of disaster to Vermont which I think is now I'm learning is even on more
134of the precipice. I'm not sure. We're just small. We use emergence and capture solve the problem and solve their political problem. Wow, that'd be interesting. Any others questions? Thank you both for taking the time tonight. Thank you. Thank you so much. And don't hesitate to reach out and we'll continue to send we don't send them to the whole board because we don't want to create that meeting, but we will send you I can forward maybe what I'll do. I think if I forward those it's good, right? Like we can do that. So I'll be forwarding these to everyone else. and thank you for keeping us informed. Both you guys are are we're thankful that you're here and that you're so thoughtful about this and that you're so knowled about it. Thank you for lending members
135of your board for a variety of solutions. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Jen. Okay. Well, on that day, where are we here? Okay. Um, see if we can pick this back up again. Um, we'll move back to our item A, which was the reading of the policy. Um, I believe maybe wait for Jay to come back. I think this is just this was not a policy Q policy committee. Sean, do you know if there's a writing plan? What I'll do is maybe I'll wait for Jay. We'll wait for Jay. Sorry, we're miss we're messing up our business requiring discussion order. Um Jay was just blocking Rebecca out of time. Why don't we move over our Neil? Do you want to talk about the BSPA resolution process? Uh, sure. So, I will let folks know
136that the VSBA resolution process is sort of the primary vehicle um that the VSBA uses to determine what their policy positions are going to be. Um, uh, you know, especially for the start of the legislative session. Um, and, uh, every year at this time, we solicit resolutions from school boards all across. Sorry, I keep saying we. I am a member of the VSBA, which is why I keep saying we. Um so we solicit school boards all across the state for resolutions. Um those resolutions go forward to a resolution committee at the VSBA that reviews all of them. Um the committee then provides a recommendation to the VSBA board of directors as to whether resolution should or should not pass. Regardless of that recommendation, however, every resolution is submitted from a school board actually goes before
137what we call the full delegate assembly. Delegate assembly is basically the representatives from all of the school boards across the state that are members of the DSBA that vote on these things at the annual meeting. All resolutions require a twothirds vote in order to pass. So these are very um important positions of the the VSBA. So that requires a higher threshold of support for those things. Um in the past this board has proposed resolutions to the VSBA. Um, most recently we had a resolution that we submitted in year 1 that the BSBA made a recommendation of do not pass. We submitted the very same resolution the following year. The recommendation was to pass. So just because you don't succeed the first time doesn't mean that you shouldn't try again. Um, but you know certainly uh
138you know we've got the context of the presentation we just got from Rebecca and Jim about the state of affairs in in the Vermont education landscape. if this court were so inclined. Um I believe the deadline is July, middle of July, end of July. And so the reason that we bring it forward in May is because this board typically sort of recesses over the summer. Um so now is the time to think about resolution. Um, if board members had thoughts, um, certainly happy if they wanted to reach out to me, I could help with language and drafting and such, but then we would bring it forward to this body for consideration at our June meeting. Find the past resolutions. Is that on the BSP website? Yes. All the past resolutions are out there. Um well
139I need to double check that what what you will see um on the VSSDA website are resolutions um after they have been passed and incorporated into the full list of resolutions and we categorize resolutions based on what sort of what area what topic area they cover. What you will not see in the in the finalized version of resolutions is when we when a board typically submits a resolution there typically what you will see is a whole bunch of whereas clauses that basically set the context and the stage for what it is which is the language that usually comes after the phrase be resolved. Um and all of the where clauses typically disappear once a resolution is approved by the body and it's just the resolution that you would see in the in the list of
140resolutions online. So um the answer is yes. But so you can see you get a sense for what a resolution is and what all the resolutions have been passed since many of time. The one that we did was the tax one and Neil said it was the property tax for second homeowners and like Neil said it didn't pass the first time and then it actually became an issue at the state level and I think people understood it the second time. Of course with everything going on right now I don't even sure that's part of it remains a resolution. there remains a resolution and hopefully at some point as far as when people are talking how are we going to raise more funds I don't know what's happening at the state but hopefully yeah and so
141just to be clear the way that you know the way that the VSSDA uses these is what you know if a topic comes up in the legislature for example that hasn't necessarily come up before the first thing we do is do we have a resolution on this topic area and if we do then that forms the basis of you know whatever we're going to say as a as a BSDB organization in front of the legislature and others. Okay, any questions? I'm thinking I'm looking at the time. I'm thinking of our educators and probably myself if we can keep our meeting moving. Yes, we'll keep going. Um, the school board meeting schedule a topic template. I don't really think there's too much to discuss there. Um, does anybody have any comments on that? It's a fairly
142standard template. It's what we use every month um when I meet with with Jay and the folks that's set these meetings. Uh the schedule is also there again probably no comments on that first Wednesday of every month. Okay. Uh we had the education funding update is done. Um district quality standards we could also push this in the next meeting if people are the I do realize the education funding update got was an almost an hour. Um, do you want to maybe do an intro on the district quality standards, Neil? And I can quick background and I know Neil, we had sent out the email that for all you folks on I I read the materials and like my one question is that with the standards is is there any way for us to assess where
143we are against the standards before they go into factor? Who's going to be assessing us against the standards? Is there like a measure that Okay, got it. uh there. So, um there is supposed to be um I think what you're going to find is that this is one of the things that's a work in progress. Um there is supposed to be um an evaluation rubric that's going to be made available to us by the AOE to measure ourselves on these um criteria. That has not been released yet to my knowledge. So, we are still sort of waiting for that sort of thing. Um the AOE has said in previous um meetings and communications that uh districts are not going to be dinged for this uh on on the roll out. This is going to sort
144of progress over time and we are not expecting that every district is going to meet every standard in year one. Um the important part a is that we begin to evaluate ourselves against these standards and number two then is over time that we get to show growth. Okay. And progress. Okay. All right. And I haven't focused too much on obviously a chair perspective. I guess I can ask you this because of what's going on at this level. I believe um because it does go back to the Department of Education to set these standards and I mean is what's going on is that we I saw that July you know I mean I'm assuming all this is not really going we might be here in a year if they consolidate some kind why are we if
145the district is gone in a year then the need to follow district quality standards also go away yes I would agree with that statement Garrett And I guess my last question is do we need to from your perspective right now I saw the July date I mean is there anything that we need to be doing or are because we haven't really received stuff from the AOE they seem obviously they have a lot more on their plate than what I would Yeah. So what I would recommend to this body it kind of dubtales with what was in the agenda previously. So if you look at our agenda template for the year, yeah, there are certain things that need to happen at certain moments of the year. I think what we want to do is take a
146look at that template against these new district quality standards especially and this I'm talking only about the governance standards. Okay. And um for those items that sort that are very tangible like the board shall do things right or or should be doing things by you know annually then we want to let's make sure that there's a placeholder in the agenda template that we're holding ourselves accountable for making sure that that's done. Okay. All right. Um I can do that. I can take that template and look at it back to Ryan and if it's helpful I can send to board members later. I have just a little bit of a history background as to how did we get here? Okay. That that maybe it would be helpful to just give the context. Okay. Okay. Um since
147Jay's not here actually it is only a first read. I think that the policy is actually a form. Um so we will be having a second read of the next one anyway. So why don't we move on to our business action. Move on. I I think we need to fact check the form a little bit. I think it's a New Hampshire form. Okay. Some of the things that are on here not we don't do in Vermont make a report but I think that might just be worth going through and looking at what Vermont requires and modifying this form fit a little better. I'll follow on that. Okay. All right. Um so do a motion for um B through E by consent it is other than the and again I think we can revise the schedule
148based on Y we can bring that back if we make any changes but at this point why don't we do that I move to approve items B C D and E by consent second Lisa all those in favor all right that is unanimous okay um report of the chair I don't I don't have a report I think um what we had tonight was really what's been on my mind. Um, and it was great that we had both of our representatives here. I thought that was a fabulous update because and what I will do is I will also be sending you I will forward because to be fair, Rebecca sends us some updates with some links and I haven't really forwarded them yet because they're I don't know if we really could, but we definitely can
149send them out as well. I'll do forward to the board so you guys can read them as well because she does do nice there's not that we have much control over it. something that makes you want to launch into a a rage. But um anyways, um what I'll do is actually Robin, do you you want to do any I did submit my reports questions I'm happy to answer. Okay, that was great. I know um the update at the at the SAU as well. [Music] Um great. Does anybody have any questions for Robin on that? Just one quick. Are we anticipating return of the title one? Well, I actually attended a meeting yesterday and I'm getting conflicting words from New Hampshire and Vermont, but New Hampshire told us not to plan on well plan on having
150title one, which we are supposed to get back this year. Okay. So, our percentage threshold tricked in a positive direction. Yes. So, we did move above 2%. But because we didn't receive funding last year, at the meeting I went to in Vermont, they said that you should plan on up to 80% of what you received last year. So, 80% of zero to zero. So, I don't know. And in New Hampshire, they told us that they're talking about consolidating all of the grants and sending them to the state, and the state would decide where they go and possibly eliminating title 2 and title 4. So, they haven't even put the application out in Vermont yet. And um they basically said, well, this is what we know, sort of. But it was totally conflicting information from what
151I received in New Hampshire and they're all coming from the federal government. So, so I feel like it's really up in the air in terms of what we would receive if we receive anything honestly, but I'll keep you posted when I hear anything. Okay. And you expect the ELA process to be similar to the math one or is this Yes. Well, that's what we're hoping is that we can develop a budget for budgeting for the fall. Okay. That's what we're trying to do. We're down to the process of we're looking at resources now and evaluating them and then, you know, I want to take what we narrow it down to and figure out what the cost would be for each school. Okay. So, we would have that for the fall. So you have an idea
152because it would be a similar endeavors now and maybe more expensive I hate to say but generally the ELA materials are more expensive and it's more comprehensive. We do writing and all the different pieces. So Okay, great. Okay. Um let me move over to Teresa reports here. anything I knew I knew. Uh was there anything? I guess this is the year end. Um I did upload the reports and I don't know if you have the signature here. Okay. This is just the support contract that sign that for the agreement kind of thing. I don't know how deep you want me to get. Um, I guess is there any reports are uploaded that is there anything in there that stands out that we should be particularly aware of that concerns you or is there anything kind
153of business as usual at the end of the year? I could be concerned about one of them but there's really not much choice and that's going to be the out of district tuition. Yes. We've had high cost and everything else on one of them and um the septic in the projects that had gone over. So those really have tipped the skill as far as the expenditures bottom line. That's probably the two biggest things. And then I just wanted to note that um uh I think I mentioned it the other night that NHIT who was the non-union and service staff um insurance providers. So they've informed us that they're no longer operating at the end of um they're actually dissolving. So we had to quickly like many other school districts that use them is seek out
154the new insurance company. Um we got did request and everything else and we got different quotes back. We did end up settling with um NECO and it's New England employees benefits know the acronym there um we're talking about it but they they allow us can I do we do we have folks in in the Norwich school district that are participating in those benefits or is everyone in Norwich on Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I think this change may not Yeah. Yeah. It won't impact except for just the non-union in that sense and even even in that sense I don't think any of the non union on this side of the river would participate in those. No, that's okay. But still I I my brain is not quite 100% all the time thinking that same way. That's
155okay. You'll get there. You'll get there. But yes, so I apologize for that. You're right. Um but I will tell you that so I was talking to Amy today and that um from human resource and she did say at least that the non union letters of agreement stuff will be going out um and everything else this next week. Hopefully those will be out. And then the the overruns you usually this is often times we're in okay shape here. So the special ed over by about 150 and the site improvements over by a couple hundred. Correct. And that was between the two projects. That was the two project and the septic. Okay. And just stuff that was not we didn't foresee. Yeah. I remember as Jamie and I she explained a lot of that stuff because
156a lot of that was almost fairly finished by the time I kind of came you know finishing up when I came on board and stuff. So, I know that there's um certain things they didn't anticipate with the digging and others I believe, right? Um that that were part of that. Okay. And then any when we're down, you know, kind of negative 150, 160, what what kind of happens when did you slightly positive? Yeah. And we still kind of go to positive and I and I should I didn't actually do that number and I apologize for that. So, I should have um but based on our ending um and I don't have it right in front of me. That's right. But I will for for the next meeting I'll definitely have we're our fund balance from
157last year and everything else. So, we ended on a positive. So, right now um I think that the last meeting I was looking at about 155,000 is good. But, um Okay. But again, I'm going to go back and look at that. So, it looks like we're going to be right kind of flying close to the sun. Look, pretty good. Yes. Okay. This the 200,000 in the site improvements. That's the septic project you were talking about. And the playground. Oh, and the playground. Got it. Thank you. And the furnace. Last year, we did the septic, we did the we did the playground, and then we did all the boilers and a bunch of interior. Okay. Everything over from oil to natural gas or to um propane. Okay. as well as all the systems we get rid
158of all the scheme systems. Okay. Um, any questions for Teresa? Yeah, I just want to just double check on this site improvement part. So what I'm hearing you say is it's just kind of all projects sort of run over for the most part and there aren't any lessons to learn in terms of future contracts like this is just something that happened in yes and and I don't have a full detail on it and I can certainly get that for you but um yeah it's not it's definitely not the norm that we would always do that. Okay. I would just say one lesson learned is be careful when building things around or on ledge. I think you're talking that a lot of our changes had to do with it was located and having to make alternative
159plans and thanks. All right. Um so there's just this one form, right? Yes. Okay. And then I signed this one page. Correct. Okay. So these are both ready to go. Okay. Okay. So, with that, we'll enter um our executive session. Um do I then we will come back out um and end our meeting for those of you that are here and want to go home. Um do I have a motion to move into executive session? The language is there. It's for the purpose of um personnel. We got it. I move to enter into executive session at 8:42 p.m. in accordance with title one section 313 for the purpose of discussing personnel. Second, Lisa. All right. All those in favor? All of us? That is unanimous. Okay. All right. Thanks everyone. Thanks guys. Thank you. back
160on. Looks like I don't agree with your idea. They did say that we've accomplished a year or something like that. pretty much we would not have to marry cross one kindergart maybe by the end of the year. We're online. Okay, we're online. All right, so welcome back everyone. So, we had little issues with the camera. Um, I'm on I'm on the Zoom live. Is that okay? Okay. All right. So, we have two motions. Can I hear the first motion for our um hires for next year? Neil move to approve hiring Noel Croberg, Kimberly Phoenix, and Anna Chickling each as a 1.0 FTE elementary teacher and Jennifer Kee as a 1.0 FTE world language teacher is presented. All right, I have a second, Lisa. All those in favor? All right, that is unanimous. And do I
161have a second motion for the uh list? Gina, I move to approve the 2025 2026 nomination list as presented. All right, I have a second. Lisa, all those in favor. All right, unanimous. Again, thank you Sean for all work. We don't have any more hiring to do between now. I'm now double J. I'll turn my Sorry. I'm now muted. All right. Uh I think that's it. Any agenda items for the next meeting? Please let me know. Um it will be on My Docks fell off, but it's going to be on what? June 4. June 4th at 6:30 here. Do I have a motion to adjurnn? Move to adjurnn. Move to adjourn. We don't need to approve it. Oh, sure. We have a time. We need a second. I'll second it at 9:19 p.m. We're all
162in favor. Thank you, everyone.