Dresden School Board 04/22/2025

001I do have a dab if I need to use it. Okay. Um, we're going to call this meeting at 7:40. Apologies with the delay of the previous meeting for agenda review. We do set my boundary. We do have a need for a non-public tonight. We may have an additional need for a reason which we will get to when we get there. Does anyone have anything they wish to add or subtract to the agenda apart from that? If folks here for hockey, this is a separate thing so we know you're coming. Anyone else from board members? Okay, see right along seeing that there move right along to public comment may address the board on anything not already on the agenda if you're wondering yes this is the time for hockey curiosity people in the audience is

002anyone here for an issue other than hockey okay seeing you see there are a lot of you we appreciate that we love that you're here that said we want to keep this somewhat efficient I hope that people have looked at our policy on public comment I'm assuming very few of you have. So, I'm going to quick summary. Um, keep it clean. You have to say your name, the town you're living in, and if you are representing any particular group. And you have three minutes. I will be timing you for this efficiency. Try not to be redundant. If someone has really said exactly what you want to say, please feel free to say, "I support the previous comment." And leave it at that. That said, if you there's something new you want to talk about that

003we have not heard from yet, I encourage you to speak your mind. Any clarifying questions on the administrative side of things. Okay. And also, if you wish to speak, got to stand kind of right in the middle so the cameras can get you. And yeah, so name town if you are representing a particular group. Would you like to speak for hockey? What's that? for anything that you would like to answer. Anything we are expecting hockey, but we don't necessarily know which book, which brings me to my final point. Do not necessarily look for an answer from us tonight. We don't know what you're about to say. We may have to do a deep dive into research into finding numbers and finding costs. So, we want to hear what you have to say, but don't necessarily

004look for a response from us. Um, go ahead. I do have this on my phone, so if I'm looking down at my phone, go right ahead, sir. Want to see like a jerk. Um, so your name first. Yeah. Okay. My name is Henry Dinsmore. I am 15 years old. I am from North Vermont. I'm representing the um boys who would be eligible and willing to play on a JB team that could potentially be fielded for handover. Um I've played hockey, club hockey since 87. Hockey is my favorite sport. Loved it my whole life. Grew up in a hockey town. Um yeah. Uh last year I played with 14U Banton hockey with Hen Hockey Association. Um, and I now age out of that obviously and now I'm now I would now the obvious next step for

005me would be to play on an HHS varsity or junior varsity team likely a junior varsity team very talented varsity team but uh we currently do not have a junior varsity team JV and um basically yeah that's like I'm saying we should come and field that JV team to support development like we already have a great varsity program but to continue to be able to field good players. We should continue to develop players in the Hannover High School system so it's like easier to adapt to new coaching and like different like and they don't have to adapt to different like ideas and like things when they move to HHS. Um like this is not just like an investment in like the people playing now. This would be very much for the people like 5 10

006years down the line. Like I have a younger brother right now who is playing with Hannover Hockey Association. It is very likely he in 6 years down the line is going to be coming here and looking for a spot on a handover team. And it is likely that he would be looking for a spot on the JV team. And that's like one of the reasons I'm up here because I want him to be able to continue to play hockey because I know he loves it. Yeah. Um, and like we also we do have a very large number of players, very skilled people who are willing to come here and play and getting people to play would likely not be a problem. So, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Any questions? Like, is there anything you want

007to ask me? Board members have any comments on this? Any motion to speak? Go ahead. Hello, Dresden School Board. My name is Liam Herrick and I am from Hanover and I am representing the student athletes that play sports here at the high school and in the middle school. I played hockey. I have been playing hockey in Hannover for the Wild since I was four years old. And this past year, I was the co- captain of the 14U Wild State Championship winning team. Hockey has been a part of my life for as long as I can remember. Uh but due to the options for hockey in the upper valley without a JV team in Hanover, the options to continue to play the sport I love are very limited. With the exceptional um athletes and the demand

008for athletics in this district, making a varsity team for any sport, hockey, soccer, lacrosse, etc. is hard for any freshman. But unlike soccer and lacrosse, hockey does not have a JV team to let athletes current to let athletes continue to develop the sport and then move on to varsity in the future if they'd like. With Hannah High School's current hockey offered, many student athletes are left with nowhere to play until they can make a varsity team, which becomes increasingly more difficult as they do not have an inseason opportunities to further develop this skill. This dynamic force is dedicated and talented hockey players to abandon the sport. Uh Hannibar has always been very successful in hockey and I and can be very successful in the JV league out of Tritown given the current number of young

009hockey players in this district. There will be a demand for a JV team for years to come. Uh, as a USA hockey referee who has officiated local games and as a volunteer coach from my little brother's team, I can confidently say that through Hannibal Wild alone, not counting other clubs in this district. There's a demand to play hockey. Offering an option for a JV team at Hannibal High School will benefit both current and future student athletes and will help the hockey program as a whole. So, I ask that you strongly think about the amount of student athletes that a JV program will benefit, not just next year, but for years to come. Thank you. Anyone else wish to speak? Go for it. Um, I'm Errol Moore. I'm a ninth grader at Hannover High School and

010I'm from Norwich, Vermont. Um, I've been playing hockey since I was 3 years old. Um, I played on the same team at for two years as the two people that previously spoke and I support their two messages. Speak. Hi, I'm Wharton. I'm 14 years old and I live in Etna, New Hampshire. Um, I don't uh I just aged out of um youth hockey and I don't know what I would do next year because I don't think I would make the varsity team and a JV team would be very nice. If I assume we have parents out here, we welcome you guys as well. Um, my name is Kim Doin. I am Henry's mother. I also have two other sons. He mentioned a younger son who also plays hockey and is a year old right now.

011And I do support this message. I think it's important to allow these boys to continue to grow and develop their JV team here at Hannah. We need the people to support that team coming up and develop over time and feed into that team. And that team needs our backup support in the JB team as well, I think. So, we would really appreciate it if the board um would help us work with the athletic department to um develop a JB team again here at Hanover. Thank you. Hi, I'm Anna. and a documentary of the North Vermont parent and um I used to have to supervise a big team and look at a lot of resumes for people applying for jobs and I could tell you from looking at a lot of resumes that candidates who played

012a team sport are incredible at being workers. They can manage their time. They know how to work together. They know how to cooperate. There's so many real life skills that happen from being on a team and so I would like to support and advocate for any opportunity for students to be able to be part of a team and I think it's really important to have this JV opportunity. Thank you. I also know we have several members with us virtually. If you wish to speak, please re raise your Zoom hand and we will get to you as well. Anyone else in person? Michael board member. Hi. I just wanted to for people that don't know, I also serve as the president of the Hanover Hockey Association and I just wanted to say how much I appreciate

013um people coming and talking about this today. I happen to think that hockey is a wonderful team sport and it builds a lot of teamwork and confidence which you saw on display tonight when the boys um spoke before the school board. Um the Hannover Hockey Association is not in a position to offer a junior varsity hockey team. It it is not what we do. However, we would be supportive of those efforts. If there are other ways that the school district believes they could partner with HHA, we are all ears and would be happy to talk with the athletic department or coaches and see how we can be helpful. We're just simply not in a position to offer a full-time 16U team that would stand in the shoes of a junior varsity team. And I'm very

014sensitive to what the boys are saying that it's very hard to ask 14-year-olds to go compete with 17 and 18 year olds on the ice without more time in training um after middle school. So anyways, that's a long way of saying thank you and we want to help and we're all ears if the school district wants to engage in that conversation. Michael, just to confirm, you're speaking with your non board member hat on or with your board member hat? speaking as a member of the public who is also a Zoom panelist and part of the school board, but yes, I'm primarily wearing my handover hockey and Norwich resident hat. Okay, thank you, Michael. Um, just to add context, he is also a school board member, but typically would be sitting here except that he's virtual

015tonight. I see Kelly and I see another board member online. Any other comments from the public in the public comment section related to hockey? Please go ahead. Um, hi, my name's Ununice Wharton. I live in Etna. Um, how is mom? Um, I wanted to add that we are really hoping to advocate for a JV hockey team at the high school. Um, I don't really know a lot about hockey. I'm like figuring this out as they go along. Uh, and apparently it's a big deal to have full ice practices versus half ice practices. And one of the things that has been discussed is that as a JV team at the high school, it would be an opportunity to have full ice practices. I don't even I mean, I can understand sort of why that's a big

016deal, but I think that is a big deal to these players. Um, also Hanover High School is the only um hockey team that competes in division one in New Hampshire and does not have a JV team. So I think that both for um access to the sport, for equity, for opportunity to keep playing, for kids, for the parents who have to live with kids who love hockey and um I don't know, just it's it's a lot. Um yeah, I'm hoping that you will consider bringing back a JB team at the high school and um I think that financially the community will support it. Um, and I I don't know how much detail to say, but yeah. Any other comments from members of the public? I know the board is is eager to have our own

017discussion. It sounds like Thank you, Unice. Yeah. Anyone else? Any comments from the public? So, I saw at least three board members who may have either comments for the public. You're under obligation to answer them or discussion among ourselves if you want. Um, I'm going to start with Garrett who is also with us virtually. Garrett, go ahead. This is another board. Sorry, I just got unmuted. Can you guys hear me? Yes. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah, I know that this isn't really supposed to be interactive, but I think just as a board member speaking and if someone on in the audience wants to stand up and ask a question, I actually admittedly am surprised that we don't have a JV given the fact that you're right that as I understand it, the varsity is D1, which is

018unusual as we all know for Little Hanover High School. And is there a reason why is it cost? Is it ice time? Have has parents already approached Megan and had this discussion and now they're here asking for the board to view this? I guess trying to make this a little bit interactive as far as like what is the problem and why is everyone like coming to the board to ask for action? Have we not had movement from others? I don't really know what the like why we don't have a JV and kind of what the problem is that we're trying to solve as the board. So thank you for that Garrett. I will note in terms when you mentioned interactiveness that yeah is working board meeting. It is not intended two-way conversation. Just making that

019clear. We have heard your stuff. We sound like we have some work we need to gather information we need to gather internally. We may have questions for you and there might be a little back and forth. That's not really the intent of this meeting. The full-blown black back and forth, excuse me, would be something called a forum which we do offer at some of these. For example, the RMS had a math forum a few months ago. That would be more of like the community and board back and forth. And I also did want to note that Megan Soil is with us online virtually and she has a comment. So, pardon me, board members, I think we should hear from her before we have a discussion. Um, can you move Megan over to the panel, right,

020Megan? Go for it when you're ready. This is our athletic director for those who don't know her. Hi, can you hear me? Yes. Okay. Yeah. I I just wanted to provide a clarification. And I understand that um you know there are lots of questions and I'm hearing from you this is not probably the time to answer those. But I just wanted to clarify one thing that I thought I heard was that we're the only division one school um in New Hampshire without JV hockey. That is not accurate. Um there's 15 schools in D1. Um and seven of those have JV hockey currently. Um so I just wanted to clarify that. Um we are by far the smallest school we petition up to D1. So many of those schools um you know are between 1,500 and

0213,000 students um when we're at about 680 or so. Um, so I just wanted to clarify that. I'm happy to talk more if this is the right time, but um, I just wanted to provide a clarification. Thank you, Megan. Uh, board members, starting with Kelly. So, a couple more. First, um, full disclosure, I'm also on the Handover Hockey board. Um, I I I'm the parent manager manager on the, uh, handover hockey board. Um, I am not advocating one way or the other, but I did did want to provide a little more information for the board. Um, Liam mentioned the fact that these kids don't have anywhere else to play after they age out of U14, and I just wanted to clarify for the board that for some of those kids that happens at the end

022of 8th grade. Um, this year there were, I want to say, four or five kids who were cut. Yeah. From the varsity team. All of those kids were able to play U14 where there is a good local option for them to play club hockey. My child was not able to do that because he has a November birthday. There were other kids. They were given a spot on varsity team because the numbers worked out that way. Um I know for the summer fall hockey program coming up there are 37 boys signed up. So that is an extraordinarily large number compared to many years. And I'm sure that's something Megan would share. I don't know what the board does with that. So, I wanted to give that information. That's not often the case. That is definitely enough

023for two teams. We don't always have 37 kids. So, I wanted to kind of provide um that context. And then just to say I know that the parents have been in touch with the athletic department. You know, that was my final comment. Um so, I do think there's probably more for us to find out in terms of costs, in terms of conversations that have happened. I don't think tonight's probably the time for that, but I also think it probably needs to happen quickly if we are going to find out more. So again, not advocating for anything, just laying out more information. And thank you to the boys who spoke. I know that's not easy to do. So thank you, Lisa. Yeah. Um, I have an answer to I think it was Garrett's question about like

024why there is my understanding of why there is no longer a JV team and it has to do with numbers. And full disclosure, I am the mom of two boys who played hockey all the way through their senior years at Hannover High. Um, and my son was part of the last JV team which won the state championship. Um, so even though they're a smaller school, we do we still were able to compete on the JV level there. But it um the numbers just fell off like whether it was like a lack of interest for hockey or whether the the COVID the birth year, you know, like it was a year that not many kids were born in 2006 and 2007 or whatever those years would have been. Um there just weren't numbers to support a

025JV team and so the decision was made. It's my understanding that we couldn't support it. There just weren't enough players. You couldn't have too many swing players from varsity going down to JV. It's not legal. It also puts the kids under stress of for injuries and those sorts of things. So, um it it really at the time that it was like, oh, it's my understanding it was a numbers game. I don't know what that means now that there's back up to 37. Um there are costs obviously associated with this. So, I know this isn't the time for that, but I just wanted to provide a little bit of context that we did have a JB team and that it's my understanding that the Tritown League for JB still exists. And so, the JV teams play

026every Sunday night in one of three slots. And um and then one of the expenses for that used to be that Hannover would provide a bus of transportation down to those games, but it was just one night a week. That's when the JB played. And then they had um separate practices um often with not great ice time, but they did get full ice periodically. So, thank you. Any other comments from board members or administrators? Any added context? Seeing none, thank you for coming. You are welcome to stay. The rest of the meeting is a public meeting. You probably don't want to leave, but you're welcome to. Oh, you want to hear the hand the high school council representative or middle school math discuss math discussion lots of fun stuff. So in that case we will

027move on to the end of the public comment. There is an additional public comment at the very end of our meeting which may not be for a couple hours and we will move on. All right. Starting with reports we move on to the port of high school high school council rep. How you doing tonight? Good. How are you? Want to walk see what's going on? So, um, it's been a while since I was here because the last meeting was over March intensive. So, I have a couple things to go over. Um, first, council had an election to replace our representative to the on programming and procedure. Um, we had our our representative Owen Welch step down and we elected Matilda Monroe who's a senior and she'll be taking over his seat. Uh we've also allocated

028money for spring carnival which is happening next Friday as well as uh $100 to the mock trial team uh who recently won the state championship and is going to nationals in two weeks in Arizona. Um and that that helped I'm part of the team that helped us get over our $15,000 goal um which is what we had to raise to pay for transport um lodging in Arizona because we don't we don't unfortunately don't get money from the school because we're not a sport. Um, our most recent big motion that we discussed was called the actions of Trump disavow motion was brought to the body by Mr. Murphy who's a social studies teacher at handover. And I'll just read um I'll read the intent statement just for context. Um says, I move that the council of

029Hanover High School disavow the actions of President Donald J. Trump when he bullies other nations and peoples when he disregards the rule of law and the constitution of the United States of America when he avoids the threat of global warming and when he ignores the plight of the poor and less privileged in the United States and in the world. So uh there's more to it but that was just the um intent statement. Um there was a lengthy discussion that took like over a month. Um there were some concerns shared about whether it was council's position it was council's role to take these like broad political statements. um whether that somehow excluded members of the high school community who might not disagree with this motion. Um eventually we decided to refer it to the examining equity

030committee with the goal of changing the language to make it more specific to handover high school students and how we defending handover high school students in this way rather than a broader political statement. So uh hopefully this motion will be brought back with new language in the future. So, I'll I'll let the board know when that's coming if you guys want to come join and listen to that conversation. Thank you. Any questions for Ella from board members or the public? Thank you, Ella. Move right along on to the high school principal report. Julie, you want to come up and tell us what's going on in your world? Hello. Hi. Um, so there's a bunch of stuff in here. I don't know if you wanted to ask about any of it. Um, Nas, I'll send you

031the report when it comes in so you'll have the report the way they wrote it. I just tried to remember from my notes what some of the stuff that they said. Um, and sectioning. You can see there was I talked to Robin a little bit because we had the merge of a class that I wrote about and whether that was something that was new that we're supposed to bring to the board or not. her advice was just to update you on it because it's not adding anything new. It's just because of moving parts, number of kids who sign up, all that. So, it's like the merge together of two things. So, um they're still going to be prepared for the next step after those two classes. Anybody want to question? It is a a great

032question. I would ask us is sort of how do we as a board feel like is that substantial curriculum change be the curriculum discussion we had about a month or two ago adapting where we adapt the policy basically us the authority for major changes as brought forth by administrators. Anyone have anyone have any strong feelings on that one way or the other? Would this count in this example? Yeah, I would say no simply because the content is the same as previous courses. It's just the delivery is well it it's doing this which is what actually NAS wants us to do more of which is wrapping together a couple courses rather than doing everything as singletons. Right. But you just mentioned Yeah. I think I just heard you say that word. I did. And I didn't

033get itchy or sweat. It's over. Anyway, that's my two cents. Any other comments on the curriculum question from anyone? I guess I may as a newer board member, it seems like an interesting pilot and I was more curious after I read this to hear more from the math findings report because to me this is an interesting opportunity to build math and science around algebra or that's a so I thought it I'm a design thinker and I think that's super cool that we're trying something new and like maybe how will we measure if this is something that works well or not that would be my question so we the math coordinator was the one when we were doing sectioning that brought it up and then you know usually things work really slowly so sort of was

034like bring it up and then maybe we'll do it a year and a half from now and then it the idea then I brought it up to the science coordinator when we were doing sectioning and then everyone kind of thought it was the thing to do and so then it's like why are we waiting because this could be good for these kids next year. So, so that was that but then we did have a conversation because there were a few things like we did bio um the the uh general level bio merged last year into bio. So there's only two levels of bio now instead of one. And so I was meeting with the counselors and they why we should have JB Hawk. We should be in your um you're not muted. Um so then

035the um what we we decided to we decided to do it but we also talked about you know how are those bio kids doing right like how did that h you know because we thought it would be better for those kids who often travel together in the school building to to merge but are they actually really successful so then we talked about how on this one we really have to track those kids as they go into bio and alge that that we feel like they're better prepared or it's at least even, but we'd rather it be better. So, yeah, we we were talking about how we're going to to evaluate the whole thing, right? Any other questions for Julie from board members for the public? Yes. Um, new board member Renee Sullivan. Yes. Hi, Julie.

036Uh, I I love math science. Um, and the idea of an math lab is really cool and I want to sign up. Um just thinking about like measuring success. Okay, great. The end is important to measure, but also like if you notice things are not going well early on, like what have you thought through like what you want to see in like November or January, whatever it is, and like how you might pivot if you don't see like you're on track for success, right? What that might I we've been talking a little bit with especially the math side of it in terms of what bars they need to meet us to get there and and what we will do. So, we've got to sort that before the year ends so that we're ready to go.

037Right now, they're trying to figure out there are two teachers that want to do it together, but are those the the right two teachers? Right. And so, it's trying to figure that out. So, we're still sorting that piece of it. Yeah. As someone who spent almost 30 years teen teaching, if they want to do it, they're the right teachers. Any other comments for Juel? Julie, does that satisfy your question or comment about the curriculum? Yeah, I mean I think with those that we think are maybe on the line or something, we'll I'll just keep putting them in the reports, right? If you know, check with Robin first, then make sure you're aware, right? And we'll just sort of work our way through this to try to figure out what actually is substantial versus mini, right?

038Like we'll work our way. I I just want to make sure that we get the sequence and the timing right because by the time it ends up in a principal's report is that decisions been made and and it's already there like if you're looking for if if the board wants to approve these things and I think we need to see it before. Yeah. We want it earlier in the process, not at the end. And the intended protocol, I think, was if you had if you or someone on your staff had an idea, they bring it to you, you bring it to Robin, she brings it to Jay, and then you or Jay bring it at the next board meeting to us as deemed appropriate. Yeah, I think it that this particular need developed as a

039result of sectioning and trying to figure out bodies and numbers of students, right? So that that would push a combination course closer to the end of the year. And I don't really know how you alert. When do you do the section? I think if Robin had I'm just thinking if Robin had said to me. So when we did the sections was two weeks ago, right? So the whole thing kind of then I ended up in three different meetings to try to can we move this fast? Can we really do this? Do we think we can do it? So, it was it hasn't been that long. Um, but I that's why I asked Robin to make sure because if Robin at that point had said stop sign, I would have said to everyone, "We're just keeping

040the classes separate and we won't do that. We won't do this idea next year." So, so that was my initial sort of check with Robin. But then that's Robin, not you, right? So, yeah. So, we through this and I think that is the protocol like you consulted with Robin. she decided it didn't need to go to the board. In this particular case, um I I think you wouldn't have just had to scrap it. I think if if she had said, "Yeah, it needs to go to the board." We still could have done, right? We could have tried we we're running the schedule, but we would have then hand put it in later, I guess. Right. We're trying to run that the schedule because it takes about a month for us to sort of build and

041then load and then work out the bugs. So, um, yeah, but we could also have just separated it and then said later, okay, we it's been approved. We'll we'll put them in and make sure all the kids can get to that period. Yeah, because they would have been what the sad part about it, I guess, is they would have been traveling together anyway, right? So, they both they all would have had the same periods off together because they're they travel throughout the building, which is what tends to happen. Tra Yeah, you're traveling together. Sorry. That's what tends to happen with singletons, right? It's like a a tracking that wasn't meant to be. That just sort of kind of happens. Yeah. So, we probably could have then merged it because they would have all been there

042anyway. Yeah. You mean you have a followup? Um, no. I mean, yeah, sure. Yes. So I mean I think to the extent that what was put before the board tonight was was our decision on how to handle these things articulated sufficiently enough did they interpret it correctly this time right I still rely on the process whereas the administration reviews things that they're like no this one needs to go before the board then it goes before the board and I think tonight maybe was just one of those things like did we get that right and I think the answer is yes at least from my perspective and going forward, we just rely on the administration saying, "Hold up, this one looks bigger than, you know, what we thought. Let's bring it to the board." Not let's

043run this one by the board every single time. Do you want to see it? Do you not want to see it? That's not where I want to where this body I think should be playing. So, I think what happened was correct. You brought it to Rob and Robin. Okay. And now you're just letting us know as part of the principal's report. Yeah. Which is fine. We like hearing reports. Okay. But sort of Yes. process-wise, this happened as intended and now it's just sort of the first trial run in terms of right do we do you give updates or not because this is more right here's that update for you right which is fine I like to hear these updates quickly because we don't necessarily have to comment on them right and the new courses mainly

044you guys are all going to see in December January meeting right because those are the ones that's when we do that piece so January for the 20 the merging right the merging would be now and but the merging piece, you know, I'll I'll just keep checking in with superintendent and then, you know, if it seems like a too big of a merge, then we'll just hold off for a year and a half or right, we'll figure that out. Yeah. Any other questions for Julie on anything? See, then thank you, Julie. All right. Thanks. Great. You want to come on up and uh note folks that the math the math discussion is a separate item on the list. is the other principles right. This is all the fun pictures and stuff. Um so we had quite

045a bit that has been going on. This is when um yeah the year seems to really pick up speed. So I didn't know if anybody had any questions or sort of what was going on. We had two a lot of really cool things that happened including we're continue to look to try to find ways that we can uh interact between schools between RMS and Ray between RMS and MCS so that we can sort of build those community links. Um so it's not we're not seen as all separate schools. Uh we did send our robotics team to Houston. They had an absolutely fantastic time. They um as usual they a lot of the stories that they tell had very little to do with the competition, but that was a lot of fun. We did have Did

046I put that picture in here? Yeah, that's so that's our group. Their project was a way to try to increase range for unmanned underwater vehicles. Um so they had a whole mockup. Obviously they didn't build the whole thing, but they got to meet um the people from the Navy who were there with their actual unmanned underwater vehicles. So that was kind of a cool experience. And then the other thing is that we just recently learned in Greg Scott who had won the Macala um award. So he was on sobatical last year um won the award for the northeast section geocscience teacher of the year um for with that that organization. So he's a very uh humble guy. Sort of just sat like a little wink. Um, I was like, "You probably need to talk more

047about this." He's like, "Nah." But, um, yeah. So, if anybody has any other questions about all those things, any questions for Tim specific to the principal's report? See none. Thank you, Tim. Don't go too far. No, I I don't know how how far we're going to be. Right. Moving on to the tuition rate. Do we have a tuition tuition committee member who can give an up in this or is it a Teresa? I can do it. All right. Thank you. Teresa, you want to come on up and then they can chime in. I can um so the committee met recently to try to determine the tuition rate for the Dresden School District and then also um piggyback with RMS. We're looking at the method of how it's been done in the past. I guess for

048at least 10 years or more, it's been sort of done the same way using a spreadsheet. Um, plugging in the numbers and calculating and the process that we were using was using like if I use real time to determine the FY26 tuition, we'd be using FY24 um expenditure data. So using that, we're already like a year behind lag. So by calculating that over the time um I think this year we uh really saw um with the fluctuation in students we're our tuition rate seem to go appear to go down quite a bit from what it was and so obviously it's not really keeping up with time. not the reality of what going to come forward because our projected tuition or expenditure cost for FY26 um they they're not keeping pace with each other. So, we

049were looking at one of the methods to use where Vermont where we do have about 45 Vermont students that come um we have online a little more than 70 students and everything else but the tuition formula that Vermont uses they use current so we'd be using the current data and the projected FY26 re uh expenditure and revenues as an offset that with our student count is going to give us more accurate. Um that's kind of using the same offsets that the formula that we used with the spreadsheet didn't take into account any um incoming revenues. So we didn't use any offsetting revenues. The Vermont formula calculation uses those which we do have some um calculating both of them. when one came out like 24,000 the old method came out 24,700 and forget the number off

050hand but a little over 24,700 and then using the new Vermont method which is very straightforward and I know it's attached you'll see the formula here um it's a very easy calculation we had to stand and explain it you could the other method sort of took some of your expenditure and your capital outlays and everything else and they kind of broke it down and then you had to add things in, take things out. So, it was kind of complicated um to say the least. So, this method of using the new method um our rate came out $25,470 give or take about a $300 difference. Um but it's keeping pace. the projected using the old formula um whenever that when that was calculated the anticipated at that point or the what the known cost was per

051pupil was like a little over $22,000 obviously again as I said not keeping pace with what the reality is of what the student um cost per pupil so using the Vermont method is the one that I'm trying to initiate that we move to that method. We use the same exercise for the RMS but because RMS doesn't really have revenues to offset using the old method made sense for that one. Um, also using the newer method meant using newer using the projected um cost and everything else. We've got uh we just had the warrant article for athletics for putting that and everything else. But so without any offsetting revenue, which we won't have, it was going to cost like $30,000 for a student or RMS using the old method. puts it back in perspective and my

052number is 25,910. Um so it kind of puts it back in perspective. I think we have one student right now that for RMS that it would really affect um the high school number was the more critical. Do you have a media comment? Um what we were just try all trying to accomplish I think and Kelly were both in the committee as well is to try and come up with a formula that's functional and somewhat predictable and standardized. And I will just sort of characterize as the previous handover high school tuition formula as pretty darn funky. Doesn't make a lot of sense. And it would have resulted this year in tuition going down $1,000 approximately over last year, which makes no sense because expenses are actually increasing. So that was the tipping point that we said

053we must investigate the methodology behind this and have some goals toward um more standardized more predictable and something that really reflects more costs our costs in the district. Um so we don't have a perfect solution I don't think right now. I think this is a process that's going to take multiple years. So um because we need to gather more data and we need to evaluate these new formula options over time especially in the political landscape that has lots of changes coming on both sides of of the river for us. So what we had decided was we liked this Vermont formula. We also liked the actual expense formula. They were both pretty much the same like the week last time we met. And then there was a a slight change made to um some of the

054input data for one of our forms and then there's like effectively like a $300 difference now and they were virtually the same about like $24,700 and change. I liked that number. That number is sort of more reflective of our costs and it could it makes sense. Um data makes sense. The old formula has got to go. Um I think um what we do is we pick a number that's really close to this 24,700 number. Um because that's clear. I mean, and I think Jay's had some conversations. We've all had some conversations about this and I think it's a lot of consensus building and there is a little bit of a bump in the road. I'll just tell you and I'll be quick. Um because the old formula is so funky and people saw other towns

055schools saw our budget draft documents what the number would have resulted in which was a decrease from last year's tuition. There will be some sticker shock as we transition, but my understanding is when Jamie did the um sort of notification to towns as to where we were in the budget process and the calculation, she included a disclaimer that said, "Hey, quite possible that this calculation is going to change." So, like not to hang your hat on it too much. So, I think we're okay. And if you guys have other, you know, things to add or if I got something wrong, please um those at the meeting feel free to chime in. Is that Christina? Yeah, I think there are some information you can see on there on the we are talking about ways of sort

056of incentivizing districts to send us more students. The other thing I think the board needs to be aware of is that in New Hampshire there's legislation pending right now that would make open enrollment the law of the land which would say that anybody could send their child to any school as long as they're a resident of New Hampshire. And the compensation would be that the district of residents, you have to send 80% of the state calculated um cost per pupil to the receiving district. So let that sink in a little bit. We'll keep you posted on it, which is less than our cost by several thousand. Right. The only hope we would have there is volume uh in that we have maybe a hundred or so seat capacity still at the high school and that

057if we could take in another 100 kids, you know, we'd also be looking at increasing our staff. So doing the math on that, not we're not sure if that's a net increase or net cost. Changes. So if I interp content correctly is if this number goes up by this number of students that's the percentage discount they would get. Okay. Are we are we talking about that in public or I don't think we want to talk about specific discount which is exact name. Okay. But okay. Um was this a unanimous vote at the tuition like this is a unanimous recommendation? know the well the numbers did change the we're I think when we approved the number in theory it was somewhere around 246 or 247 since the recalculation it's gone down a few hundred I still

058think that we say somewhere around 246 or 247 but you guys can feel free to yeah so my recollection from the last meeting that there was consensus and agreement around the 4470 number which was the result of the Vermont calculation. So that was um a recalculation that Jamie emailed after. Yes. So the number before that was 246. All right. And then there was like about a $300 adjustment that we haven't had the opportunity to talk about. Yeah. Okay. So yes. So then Tara is correct that the numbers that we talked about at that last committee meeting were higher um than the calculation that you see on that Vermont form in the package. So more accurate to say than the committee did not officially um opine on that final number have a recommendation. What I would

059say though is that if we're going to use the Vermont formula that is the number that gets spit out using that formula, right? which we haven't had a chance to vet since it's been recalculated which I'm not entirely comfortable with because it should have been right when we talked about it before Teresa your thoughts on the only thing I want to say I apologize but um it's it's I know that in the top numbers and again as we were running through it that day and everything else so inadvertently what you see from the projected long-term facility cost number 13 because it was added into the expenditures total expenditure that first and then you know when Jamie and I were going back through and everything else and we realized that that number had inadvertently been duplicated.

060So it was a matter of taking back out the duplication and not really changing numbers in the sense of refiguring it was a duplication that we realized that it was captured twice and we're like oh we got to take that back out. The number that we did approve was 24617. Oh, I guess to to Tara's point, the concern then as she said, we were talking about, you know, the perable cost formula versus like actual perfumeable cost formula versus the Vermont formula. What's the right and you know, part of those conversations had to do with the numbers we were looking at. So I think that's her point is that we just haven't had a chance to then but in concept with the numbers that we were looking at we were definitely in agreement certainly that it

061needs to change and that this seems like a good formula. Where I'm going with that tonight is there is a there is it's under business requiring action. Are we confident enough that you want us to proceed to a vote tonight? Do you need more time? Do we have a drop dead date in terms of We do have a drop dead date. We need to make a We need to make a motion tonight and approve. It needs to be tonight. Yeah. Okay. A few different numbers. I'm assuming that's for the high school or is that the high school and the middle school? Just the high school. The middle school calculation um because this is so new to us and we got the numbers sort of late in the in the stage was a a a significant

062disparity. um addressing the middle school numbers with the new calculation and it has to do with some new expenses like the athletics program as well as not a ton of tuition students and how those revenues are accounted for. So at this point it doesn't make sense to make a significant change in that methodology um until we really pin down this one for the high school and have some a few years of data I think. Yeah. Um Grayson, could you help us out just for a reference point in the current year? What's the tuition rate do you have for RSD? Nope. For Hanover High School. Um you know, I do not have that off the top of my head. I can put up 23419. Okay. 2341. So that's current year. Yes. And our draft projection with

063the what I refer to as the wonky formula was 22756. And the one that we liked was the 24617. So if I'm doing the math in my head correctly, you're talking increasing ballpark of 1100 or so, right? Which seems very reasonable based upon our actual budgeted increase. So for some of our larger constituents, would they be anticipating a number that much of a change if you t number of students? I think we did not give them the opportunity to plan well this year based upon the communications and the strangeness of the form that we should have started talking before the budget season about this. It was I think lack of awareness on my part. It was certainly lack of awareness. Um so we should be doing this in a different cadence of timeline every year.

064I think that makes more sense. Um especially with all the changes in funding. Um what I think it makes sense is for volume of students to offer discounts um for a variety of reasons which we can talk about in non. You guys feel the need for us to do a nonpublic related to this item? I think just for awareness it would be a great idea. Okay. Are we okay to looking to you guys? So, can we take them by all the one non-public later and then have a motion on this after we come back? I would love to hear everyone be comfortable with all of the information. Yeah. Does anyone want to help remind me of this reason when it comes to list of items? Y. Is everyone okay with that approach? Placing hands. Oh,

065just a for the notetaker and tickler to put this into um our agenda template for earlier in year, September, whatever that looks like. Great point. Okay. Any other things we want to talk about in public related to this? Okay. Seeing none, I would recommend we move on. Okay. To retreat topics. Um, as you may have heard earlier today, there is a four chairs meeting this Thursday where this is one of the items coming up under discussion. If there's anything anyone wants to add, we haven't talked yet. Please feel free to email the relevant chair or you can bring it up tonight if you want. For example, um, we will point out that Jay and I are in early phases to work on this year's big survey, for lack of a better term. um where some

066of the things that are coming up might be well that we can talk about um at Fort any suggestions for retreat topics which uh for I believe is May and whatever Saturday is do we have outside people coming in legislators or anything like that is that part of our plan this time around it's okay if not we reached out I don't think we have them confirmed now okay I mean I'm thinking we have a lot to do with strategic plan and such so perhaps lots of lot of legislative updates as well. So yeah, any other comments? From a team effectiveness perspective, I think it'd be really helpful for us to learn more about each other and what strengths we bring to the table in terms of our knowledge base. And I think some of you

067know each other really well and others of us know a lot about each other. And I think it would be best to spend some time even if it's half an hour or like we have pre-work where we have people fill something out um based on my my experience outside of this board that would be very effective to help us be better as a board. I think it's a great point. Like both of us have been on this board for a month. So and we don't know you guys. Right. Right. Yeah, and actually someone pointed out the last Handover meeting, we had copious interview style questions with in terms of our eight nominees who were there in person and Carrie point out we now know more about those eight than we do about her and that

068Instagram call out. We do typically do sort of icebreaking getting to know you type stuff and I would encourage the administration to maybe give that the same amount of time if not more as previous years. Trying to remember your two truths in a lie. Yeah, I don't want to do that again. If you need help, I'd be happy to help because I do this job. Kelly, that meal, I am a very social person and I I really want to know everybody and the strengths we bring. I also want us to keep that part um very limited in time because I think something that happens that has happened to us in previous meetings is we've started with that. It's lovely, but it takes a whole hour or something and then we don't have enough time to

069get to the work. And I think um it's an important day for us to get the work done. I think there's a way to accomplish that. I like the pre-work. You do pre-work. I like that. Yeah. I'm all about make it efficient and you also help introverts and extroverts who process before a meeting to process so they don't feel put on the spot. So you do pre-work. Um I am reminded basically with all of the new faces um but also for those of us that have been around for a while I think it would be good for uh a portion of the meeting for training. What is the role of the school board member and secondly a refresher um and maybe focus just on the New Hampshire side of open meeting law. That's a great

070any other thoughts specific to B retreat. Seeing none, let's move on to the Dresden board survey results for board members. This is our self report survey. Basically, how we're doing um specific to Dresden. Jay, you want to walk us through sort of the big picture of all these things tonight? Sorry, just trying to update the agenda. Noting I will point out that woe to us four out of 11ish 12ish responded to this and this would be the previous board in terms of board membership as board and board chair and all those other things. So we have to keep those in mind talking about a 33 to 44% response rate of many people who are no longer here. So Jay, given those parameters, four responses, I don't know how much you've gleaned from the survey, but

071um the ser the responses are are generally positive until we get to you scroll down to item seven. The non-chair work that we undertake as a board is shared equitably. We got some mixed reviews on that one among the four. It was evenly split. Two people thought we were doing okay and two people thought it was nice. Um, and you can see the comments there. There is someone who's optimistic saying we're getting better. And there is some there's some mixed results on item 10 about training. And that's to be expected since not everyone has been to a formal training or at least that's a perception of peers about their peers. And question 11, some a mixed result saying that um our Dresden schoolboard organization and structure is optimized to balance members duties and time. Um

072I periodically share with you how many days and hours of meetings that you've all graciously participated in. Um, and we have had this conversation every year since I've been here. And it remains a I guess a problem only in the sense that anyone thinks that there are too many meetings and too long meetings. I will remind the board of the retreat though we uh we did brainstorm a number of ways that we can make the meetings more efficient and shorter. and then on the very next meeting violated all nine or so of the suggestions we generated for ourselves. So yep, so we could try again at this retreat, I suppose. Uh question 13. Attendance at appointed Dresen school board committee meetings is we have we have a person who thought that it was mixed. Is

073that attendance by the board or attendance by other by the board? By the board. Yes, good question. And so that's it as far as mixed. But it was again a very small sample size even given the board turnover and um hopefully we can do better do better next time. Yeah, maybe it's maybe the survey needs to be revised. I think maybe I forget which one that I do so and they're all the same. So maybe you can make us sit here at the end of the meeting and do it for five minutes. So I'll know I did the dressing one at the dressing meeting and the handover one at the handover meeting and you know what I such an actual session. We could do it live but meant to be hand. Yeah. So I'll come

074I did not do the survey. Um I will also say that given the response rate I think we should do it again. and review it at the retreat. Would our three new members feel comfortable giving opinions on the meeting they've been to once? Sure. I don't know. But there are worse than what we got before. I mean, I'm skew results, but I definitely don't have a sense of I wouldn't know like if people are coming prepared to the meeting like based on two. I would love to hear though from an outside perspective. Yeah. How efficient does it seem having been here for three like I think that is actually a really valid perspective personally. I will reissue it. I think new would be great. Um I also did not um fill it out. I apologize.

075I did I definitely did the handover one and then mentally checked it off. The three having doing the three is hard is hard for my brain. Um, I I agree with the results though and I I just I'm gonna explicitly say it feels to me um like Kim was doing a ton of work that was non-chair um and that Ben is doing a ton of work that is non-chair and I know that's I always struggle with that because you know part of it I think is you know you take on the survey work because you enjoy the survey work. I didn't say that. And you're very good at it, right? But it's sort of there's a balance there. And so I I think um yeah, as for chairs, I think there's work still work to

076be done, especially with new people whose strengths we're going to learn about at the retreat. Um how can we redistribute some of that work? Um I will say Gina is becoming my new guru of efficiencies because Gina is incredible at figuring out, you know, how how can we leverage AI to help us with some of these things? then I think there are some missed opportunities there that we can yeah just as an example I don't I don't need a survey to share I think that there could be a different onboarding process for new board members that they go through to make sure they have the education pieces that like I on boarding process and on board yes and it's not that I felt welcomed I'll just tell I felt very welcomed I feel included and

077if there were things that like these courses I could have taken before I went to a meeting or when or something like how what a board does or I would have done them and take it respon this responsibility seriously because it's publicly elected board but I didn't know what those things were and just have a checklist like here's the 10 things you need to that school board member and by the way here's 10 things to know about your board member done right it's there's no way you'd be able to do it before your first board meeting though since you meet the next night so I think we can take pressure off maybe within the first month be a more useful board member. You hit the ground running instead of hit the ground like and I

078will point out that we I agree there's still issues and things we need to fix but it is so much better than what it used to be. I believe you and everyone's current evidence effort the point I always tell Neil Kelly remember is that I missed my first multiple Dresden meetings because no one told me I was on Dresden. It was completely not reported to me and that is something that we I think are getting a lot better on but there's still much more to do with it. Any other comments on the survey? Okay, thank you. We'll move right along the reading of policies. So for um board members that are new to Dresden, there is a sort of trickle down effect when it comes to policies. Most of them are discussed at SAU first

079where sort of the meaty conversations happens given for example what happened earlier today with the calendar one and there's not as much discussion typically at Dresden or handover norish is a little different that there's some Vermont specific things. So a lot of what you're looking at here tonight is stuff that we have already talked about at SAU in previous meetings. Not all of them, but a lot of them stuff that's new for us tonight are actually the first three and a half, which is IMDb, IMBD, IK, and EBCH. Note, there's an EBC hyphen R on there. That is called an R version which is basically sort of the implementation what the administration needs to do in order to implement the actual policy which in this case would be EBC. We typically don't discuss in much

080detail or approve the R versions but they are often included so we can kind of see here's their interpretation of that but it doesn't get a line by line read through at the policy committee level. So now switching to my policy chair Adam as Kelly may have had mentioned in terms of workload stuff. Um IMBD has been discussed at policy I think literally for years now. Yes it is not long. You can see I think it is four sentences and still took us that long. It needed some legal review. We had some parents bring concerns concerns to us about it because if you think of the implications of what this could become in terms of in our districts, we have very motivated middle schoolers and parents and what would be the natural outcomes if this

081became a bigger request and it is a I believe it's a requirement. Jay, you want to give us some comments? Yes, it's required by by law. It was required really over a year ago. Um, our lawyer said that technically we probably should be granting credit for advanced middle school work, high school credit. Our practice has been that we consider the advanced work that students do with the middle school in placement, math as an example. Um, and so we've worded the policy uh according to the letter of the law that says we have to recognize or acknowledge advanced middle school work. I I wouldn't be surprised if at some point we're challenged and we're forced to um to actually grant credit for it. The really the only areas where we've had this as even a possibility

082are are mathematics and world languages. And so the the criteria that the policy layout or that the principal has to decide that the the courses are equivalent essentially and so before the students, right? And so where we were where we were our hand was forced on this in the past year was that the state also has a program called Learn Everywhere. And there are a really strange array of courses that students can sign up for that could be given by virtually anybody. Um, one of them is the science academy that's that's uh up the road here. And we had a student who was an eighth grader who took a course in the summer and they went right to the uh secretary or the the commissioner because we had said we weren't giving credit for it

083and the commissioner told me flat out and pointed me to legislation associated just with that program that said we must give credit. So we did. Um, but as far as I know, that's the only one, and Julie, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the only one recently that we've actually given credit. And our worry too was really just for the mental health of our our students. if we opened up that floodgate and then we'd have we'd have kids taking um horses through the virtual the VLAC system at the advanced level and you know trying to either create room in their schedule to take other things and max out even more. We already have kids who go far beyond the 20 credits that are required and uh I could just see that being another arms

084race and so we'll have to carefully consider that as we move forward and as the state keeps changing the laws. Yeah. So, and I'll also mention um just asked the tuition committee the same question. Policy typically doesn't come to the full boards unless the policy committee is unanimous. So, if I don't mention this because it is unanimous. This is an FYI for our new board members. That is not always the case. And if that does happen, it's extremely rare if it does happen. We would say that when we bring it to the board. Um any comments on this one? It's short and sweet, but the possibilities are there, which is why it took us a while to get around it. Um Ella No, no questions. Sure. Yeah. Any comments on this one? We'll move right

085along to the second one which is new to us which is I K which is a little bit related not which is deliberate because this one also has been bouncing around for about a year and I swear half the policies committee on this is just trying to remember which one is which and what we talked about the consequences we don't remember yesterday. So, the big hangup that was on this one, there were several, but this also required a legal review. If you look at um the list of approved schools under B1 initially, this was actually sort of New Hampshire schools only, which is kind of a strange holdover because that would technically mean that we can deny anyone who took, you know, algebra 2 from any high school in the state. If it was from

086any other state they moved, we'd say no because you did not go to an official New Hampshire school, which seems like madness for anyone who moves here. And there's other sort of tinkering by the policy committee in here. And Jim, was that the only significant one? That was. Yeah. So again, this is another one that's required by law. We've been sitting on it for a while trying to get our our hands around and how it balances all the other different sort of earning of high school credit, seventh and eighth grade stuff, early graduation, all of which kind of came to us at the same time and are highly related. We also had big long discussions of what proficiency and mastery are defined as. There is not a definition in here. And what we boiled it

087down to was it is the building's principle to decide is what the student bringing what they consider to be proficient and mastery and we thought that was the best way to do it given all the nebulousness that that could become. Any comments on this one? And the language approved schools include but are not limited to address. Yeah, we added the but are not limited to. Thank you. Yeah, and we also the all schools in Vermont and Maine. I think we added that as well. I think that's the only we changed that specific paragraph. Oh, you did? I'll mention. No, no, that's just in case. And then there is a third one which is EVCH, chemical safety. This is a rather technical one that we had meetings with facilities and the principles of each school on

088this sort of making sure there is equal understanding and policy committee the facilities groups the associated service personnel and uh folks like Jamie and the principles making sure we're on the same page for what this means how do we interpret it and everyone is on board with this. Okay, except with the spelling. Yeah, that's that spelling was unintentional. It's only in the board docs link. It's not in the actual policy itself. And can I ask a question about the previous policy? The previous one, um, any questions on the chemical safety one? Okay. Thank you, board members. Tim, the the first part that says that, you know, you can demonstrate proficiency. My initial question, because I did this in college all the time, was about language. Okay. So, if you were bilingual, could you come in

089and test out a four years of Spanish? We had that exact same conversation. [Music] Yeah, I think we what we discussed was that there's a difference between being able to speak a language and uh demonstrated mastery of it. And as someone who grew up speaking Spanish and English, I can tell you I would not test well in Spanish. Right? So there's there are differences. We also get things like you know reading materials and fiction reading and analysis and all that great color helps you have a reminder. Marcel Kelly also just note that um world language is still not a graduation requirement. So that lessens that element of it perhaps that's why most of our students do it because it's helpful college applications to have four years of a language. I know college counselors will tell

090you it's helpful to your college application to have four years of of a second language, but it's not a requirement. Okay. And then you'll note there is a series of policies. I'm going to start with the letter A. Those have all been policies that we have discussed numerous times at previous um SAU meetings going back to prior to the election cycle. So, I'm not planning on getting into great detail on that. whoever wish to speak to it but this has been discussed in great detail previously J and you'll see in the administrative content the um legal advice that we got right thank you any other comments on the policies note there are um in terms of approvals there is only none of these are going to be approved tonight but there are two um annual

091ones that are coming up in business requiring action that I think at this point are fairly boilerplate that we have approved several previous years in terms of conflicts of interest and the investment policy which you already talked about I think at both handover and Norwich. Any other discussions on Neil? Um, sorry. I just I keep rereading. I'm going back to IK. Okay. Okay. Because I keep rereading what's an approved school. And while it doesn't exclude them, I'm wondering if we ought to specifically say any public school in Vermont. And I'm thinking about what happens if we had a kid come in from one of the tuitioning districts in Vermont that actually started at another high school and came to us say like in 10th or 11th grade. we would count, I would assume, right, those

092credits earned in another public high school in Vermont towards graduation requirements. And the way the policy is written, it doesn't exclude that, but it's it's sort of awkward in the way that it says and all schools in Vermont and Maine that are members of an interstate school district. Well, that certainly carves us out, but it doesn't carve out, for example, some kid from H Heartland that might have gone, you know, one or two years at another Vermont school and then came to Hanover High. So, my response though would be I appreciate what you're saying and I agree with you, but would we have to have that same argument for any state we don't mention? Does Vermont need a specific call out in here? We already have language saying it's not limited to because like we

093said, the original the original language actually only said New Hampshire. Well, true. So, I mean, good point, right? What do we do with kids that might transfer in from another state? We gladly accept them and we take their credits. Yeah. And which in reality, they're not limited to because the approved school. So, it was it was a very weird initial sentence that it was New Hampshire schools only. Yeah. Which makes no sense. I have no idea how they even survive the legisl legislature level. All right. I'm fine. Thank you, Neil. Any other comments on Andy? Thank you. Any other comments on any other policies? Right, seeing none, we'll move right along. Thank you everyone for that. to the substitute nurse pay. I believe this was discussed at a previous SAU meeting and this is just

094the first time we've had a Dresden meeting since it also has been approved unanimous unanimously at handover in any it was discussed at Norwich and Norwich deferred to Norwich's handover colleagues and Hanover greatly they acknowledged the that the kindness and in deferring and then they passed it. So I want to apologize. We had a very long meeting and we had some good news and we just but knowing that you you are hearing that you had discussed it very positively. Well they they didn't want to jump out and create a differential. Yeah. I mean to um defer is one word. But I would just say I just wanted to make sure that our colleagues on this side of the river were in general agreement of this approach before we just plowed ahead with it. Sounds like

095you've greased the skids for us without any guilt to go ahead and approve something like that. So it was approved unanimously at handover and I know actually it is not on the list of um business requiring action. Jay, is that an oversight? Um it was I think we added it as an action item in handover because it wasn't on that either. So we should Okay. So we have a separate motion for that maybe. It's not a handover nor thing. It's Dresden also. As well, right? Yeah. Just just for I mean this isn't urgent, right? Well, except that now it helps with any substitute nurse is going to get paid more in. I just say I'm I I I am generally reluctant to add items at the last minute for action if they weren't previously on

096the agenda for action. And I think that was more I think it was an oversight in terms of the action because you can see it's under it's under discussion. I think it's just got missed for requiring action with our apologies at the agenda review. um at the planning meeting. So I I as chair had thought it was on the list. I think it's more inadvertent. Okay. Sorry, I was I was mis Yeah, I was misreading. I'm good. Okay, Kelly, I'll just add to help make of the public a little more comfortable perhaps that it while it has a a financial implication, it's a relatively small financial implication, which is part of our thinking and saying this makes sense. Yes. Right. I'll move right along then to the RMS math update. Um Tim has something on

097here as well and we just added the mass survey results that I sent by email I believe on Sunday night which hopefully board members have time to go through. That is now a publicly available document properly redacted. So Tim, you want to walk us through your your thoughts on it? Then we'll open up to the full board for questions. Sure. So, I tried to write a pretty um short version of of what we've gone through this year just because it can get really long. And um so we basically started this program this year. We had a because of things that had happened. We had an eighth grade math situation where we did a lot more individualized um math work with the eighth grade. It worked out really well or it seemed to work out really

098well. feedback from it was the students were enjoying it. They were able to work at their own pace and many of them actually worked at a much higher pace than they had predicted for themselves going through. Um, so we wanted also to continue to make sure that we had enough um, rigor in our math curriculum, which there had been some concern about as we had changed the curriculum um, that it perhaps might not be preparing students as well as it could have been for when they got to the high school. Um, so we wanted to make sure that we could add things back in. Um, and so this year, especially if you go through the survey, then we surveyed everybody in January. So we we still have two different levels in seventh grade. I think

099that's important to remember. So there's straight seventh grade math, which is that's the same seventh grade math that has been for a long time. Seventh grade math with a little bit of pre-algebra at the end. Um, and then there was a seventh advanced math that we offered this year using the IM curriculum that we've been using K through 7. Um, and we're in the process of evaluating that. We did a survey at midy year. The teachers actually did a survey at the end of the first quarter to see how the students were reacting to a much more individualized structure. Um, the students in seventh grade math really didn't like it. Um, so we changed seventh grade math mid year to bring back more large group instruction. uh group works basically like a traditional math class

100that people are used to seeing. The seventh grade advanced math, a number of students who at that point had advanced so far and they said that they actually liked it. So, we left it. Um the survey when we did it again in January reflected that they didn't like it as much anymore. Um and we sort of looked at it and said, "Yeah, this probably is not working for a number of different reasons. Part of them developmental part of them in an effort to try to try to figure out how to get as much information as we could incurly. Um, and part of it I think I outlined in there that um we had noticed in 8th grade that when students worked in individual pace actually lowered their anxiety. They felt like they were working at

101their own pace. Wasn't they felt like okay I'm doing what I'm doing. I'm in control of how fast I work. They thought that that was great. seventh grade for whatever reason developmentally, especially in the advanced math, people worry, the students are not necessarily worrying about where they are. They're worried about where everybody else is. So, and when everybody else is in a different place, it just sort of increases their level of anxiety as to I'm behind. They keep saying I'm behind, I'm behind, I'm like behind. What you're supposed to be working at your own pace going but so we have essentially said that we're not going to do that next year. Next year we're going back to we're going to have advanced seventh grade math, regular seventh grade math. It's going to be taught the

102way that it had been taught previously um going forward. So there will be there are advantages and disadvantages to both of that. So we will we've had some students who have gone really fast through advanced seventh grade math this year that necessarily and we've had some people who are really far behind. So we're to make sure that the people who are far behind are are caught up. the people who have sort of run forward are going to still be able to do that, but they'll have to do it outside of the regular classroom because we're going to be working um within a more structured um and direct instruction way. This is um we've done a lot of input between our seventh and our eighth grade math teachers who are working together to make sure that

103the a lot of the information that is in eighth grade math, eighth grade algebra, eighth grade geometry is available for the students who are in advanced seventh grade math. Um, generally the the structure that's used is to teach a subject to or a concept to the class. And then for those skiers out there, you then have different amounts of work that you can do. And there are green circles, blue diamond or blue squares and black diamonds. That's what we're looking for. So we tell students, you know, if you really want to go far, you really should be pushing to do the black diamond work, which is again above and beyond. And it actually has allowed us to do some things too with the algebra curriculum. A lot of historically to try to get younger students

104through the entire algebra curriculum. There were certain things that were removed um as part of it because they didn't necessarily they weren't necessary or the geometric part of it. they come back in algebra 2. Um, a lot of things having to do with um, yeah, just different areas. So, we were able to put that back in. There's a huge part of probability that got pulled out of algebra the algebra curriculums in the past that we're now able to try to put back in as part of the Black Diamond book. So, yeah, we we tried it. We said we were going to try it this way. um we surveyed it, found out it really wasn't working very well in the seventh grade. So, we're going to go back um and try to fix it um listening

105both to um students and parents uh to try to figure out exactly what we can do better in terms of the communication. I I know for a fact that the communication piece to parents is much easier when the entire class is in the same place uh and they're moving forward sort of in a structured thing. So you can get a syllabus and say, "Okay, this is where we're supposed to be. We know what we're supposed to be doing." Um it's also easier for the students developmentally in seventh grade who don't necessarily have the executive functioning skills yet to take on a lot of that planning for yourself. Um, so we'll sort of take that back from them and do it ourselves and move them forward. So, um, it is 70. Thank you. I wanted to

106thank Ben for going through and um, formatting all of the survey data. I had copied and pasted and tried to redact it as much as possible and um, clearly I'm not like the presentation part of it. I I don't do a whole lot on paper anymore. So, um, thank you for putting the numbers in. I just I was like I I don't really I don't have a great idea to know how to do it. Um yeah, so it's all there. I think some of the survey data I think when I read it before I think I had a sense about it being redacted. I think I read it as many teachers do. Um and the negative things sort of stick with you a lot more than some of the positive things. And there certainly were

107a lot of positive um there's positive feedback as well. And it always strikes me that they seem to come right next to each other. Like someone says, "Hey, this is great. I wish we had more of this." And then the next person says, "This is horrible. I wish we never had it at all." So, um, that's we're we're going to try to keep doing the best we can to make sure that we one prepare students for the high school and two try to make sure that the people leave the eighth grade thinking of themselves as good math students or as somebody who can do math. Um because that was really the the most punishing thing with the old structure that we had with sort of the micro tracking is we had students who in the

108seventh grade had already decided I'm no good at math. I just can't do it. So and that's an awfully hard hole to dig yourself out of. I don't know if there are any other I'm sure there are other questions and comments but um I think a lot of the the energy that that people had put forward um was to say you know this is a really not a good structure we heard that so we're changing the structure again and moving forward we do have a meeting set up with Cor and Benedict at the high school um to sort of talk about more specifically what they're seeing in the high school in terms of preparation so far this year. What they're saying is that the students seem to be really really well prepared. Those who got

109are in algebra 2, those who were in geometry, geometry H are are if not better, they seem better prepared than they have been in the past. So, we feel like some of it's working. Hello. Yeah, more of a point of clarification. Um, I think so right now at MCS and she's a really motivated math student. She's going to be at RMS next year and I think uh my family's been having a bit of trouble understanding what the system is at the middle school. Um just kind of how it works and I think based on what you said seventh grade is going back to regular and advanced with uh you said an option to go further if they want to. It's the same option that's that sort of exists in the sixth grade in at RMS

110which is if you can so something will be presented if you demonstrate hey I got it I understand probability okay here's some more work that you can do in that area that will then prepare you better for when you get to the eighth grade is the advanced class separate from regular okay and then I was just wondering if you could give a just a brief explanation of how the eighth grade format works because we've had a bit Right. The eighth grade format works and if you've ever seen it, it's pretty uh pretty incredible. So, you get a you can if you start uh so if we had a student who came in, we had no information on it. We would start them in eighth grade math and you'd have a list of skills that you

111need to master to have eighth grade math. And below that, then there's a list of skills that you have to master to complete algebra 1. And then below that, a list of skills to complete geometry or geometry H. So every single one of those skills is linked to a lecture that the the teachers themselves have created. So they've created they basically recreated the lecture that they would give. We're going to talk about quadratic formulas. This is the lecture that I would give. Here's what it is. Students watch the lecture. They then have um access to three different levels of work that they can do on that. and they'll sit down and if they have questions ask the teacher. Teacher meets with the student on a weekly basis to say, "Okay, where are you? Where do

112you want to be? What do you have to do? How are you going forward with this? Um are you ready to take a test? If you're ready to take the test, go." So, what it allows people to do in the eighth grade especially, and we've had a number of people who've done this, is um start out slowly and then are able to move much faster sort of once they figure out once they figure out how the whole thing works for them. So, we've had students who started out in regular eighth grade math and completed all of eth grade math, all of algebra one and have a shot at geometry. So, we go to algebra 2 h even though they were only in eighth grade math when they started. So, that's kind of what we're hoping

113for. Does every student start at the start of eighth grade math or do you place it depending on how they you're able to place out um well they also do things Wednesday is spiral day in grade math. So even though they work independently Wednesday is a day that spirals back to things that they've done before. So it's not like okay I finished this I'm never going back to it until I get to it in algebra 2. So on Wednesday, you might have to go back. The students don't like it because they're like, "I already did this." Well, yeah, but you still are going to have to do it later, so they go back and do that again. So there's a a sort of a testing process at the beginning of 8th grade. So um so

114that you can sit down with the teacher and figure out exactly where it is that you want to be because when we're trying what we found was we had a number of students who for whatever reason and sometimes it just goes away. Well, I did algebra one. I'm fine. I'm ready to go. And then you ask them to if they can do the algebraic skills that they did the previous year and they've forgotten all. So it probably makes sense to try to go back and do that at the beginning. But not everyone starts together. Um so I was really curious about the disconnect that I saw between how students are experiencing this versus parents. And I was hoping you I'm going to pull in Neil because I have multiple questions. That's my first big question.

115And then I have a question for Julie which is how are you seeing and you started getting at this but how are you seeing the kids who are coming into the high school like how are they coming in in terms of preparation and then my third question is like different kids learn in different ways and um you know Ella's sister may be a super advanced student not most kids I know they are my neighbors I know how smart they are there's other kids who have different learning styles and abilities and how are we meeting the needs or kids who don't have parents who are like on them. And so those are like my big wonders about all this. So the first part um when we did it we when we did the original survey just

116trying to get feedback from every the disconnect between students and families is I the the students in the eighth grade are the ones who are the most positive about what's going on. So I think that and a lot and since there were more students I think that that skewed sort of the student ideas. Okay. Um I think fewer eighth grade parents. So they're like math seems fine or doesn't seem to be a problem. So they didn't necessarily fill out the survey. Seventh grade was where we had our issue with students were like I don't like this fit. I don't know what I'm doing. They have a lot of anxiety. So I think that's part of it. Um, and part of that has to do with developmentally. Part of it has to do too with it's

117just much clearer in eighth grade for the students and for the parents as to here's the sequence, right? This is what you're going to do to get where you want to get. Um, and that because it was a new I mean this was the first year we used that advanced seventh grade curriculum. We didn't have all of that planned out. Next year it will be more planned out. So, I think it'll be less it'll be very clear like here are the units. This is where we're going to do them. This is how you have to do it. It's much more structured that way. Um, it's my understanding from going through the survey that you provide units separate out seventh and eighth grade parents, right? There's not a question are you seventh grade or are you

118eighth grade, right? No, it's it's what you are, but then it doesn't do the I mean we there there might be a way to do it, but it would involve significant um yeah, significantly more person hours. Okay. But there's there's not a way that we could say the eighth grade parents seem happier than the seventh grade parents. No, it's only because you can like because I know certain things when I read the comments I can pretty much I can figure out who's who's um I did read the entire thing. Um which thank you for getting it together. Uh, I am really interested in that seventh and eighth grade breakdown though because I did get a sense general as like I was taking notes of the eighth grade students and parents were more positive which made

119me really want to understand a lot more about the seventh grade experience like why why did this happen? Like and we were asking students and parents here but like how are the teachers feeling about the instruction? Do they feel like they're capable of it? Doing that kind of a model is very different. And so like was it an imple implementation thing? Like how how do we know that nuance? And it's hard given it's all together. I found it really hard to kind of make any meaningful conclusions. And I think I mean I think what we want to do too, although it's I'm sort of going back and forth like this survey was in January, we made some changes. Not sure if we want to go back because it's again like we're not we're not going

120to be able to change the advanced seventh grade math in the way that we want to for next year because the people in the class are at such disperate levels that we can't sort of be like, well, I know you're four units ahead, but now we're going back here. Like that it it doesn't seem fair. doesn't seem right. Um, we'll definitely do it again next year. Part of it was again, this is the eighth grade has basically been working on this for three years. So, this is sort of the third year that they then they've done it at little bits to sort of they they did the individualized algebra curriculum one year and then they added 8th grade math to that curriculum the next year and then this year they added geometry. So, they've had

121more time to sort of get it structured, get it forward. And we also have people teaching in a public meeting, but I don't think it's outside the realm of what people know. Our eighth grade math teachers are um much more experienced. They've been doing it for a much longer time, so they have a bigger sort of thing to draw from in order to implement it. So part of it was implementation, part of it was they were doing this for the first time. And that was the other thing that we noticed is it's it's hard on the teachers. It's really hard on the teachers. Um, but the eighth grade teachers will tell you that it's worth it. They're like they feel like they're able to talk to more students individually. They're able to and they have

122students coming in basically every single planning period. If you're on the eighth grade hall, you'll have students who will come out to study to go sit in the math class, go sit in the math room to work on math. Um, which is something that they're, you know, they've decided they want to do. And again, that's I think something that's developmental that the eighth graders are able to do that the seventh graders really like. I do math when I'm in math class and then I use to answer your third question. Um the learning specialists in the eighth grade um really really like this structure because it allows students to sort of go at their own pace. um they you know all the t the uh people in the learning centers or 504 coordinator whatever they can

123see like okay this is where you are let's watch the video we can do it together we can figure out what it is that you need to do it's it's much more that sort of structure they think it's it's really good and it sort of does away with the one of the things that we really were trying to do is get away from the stigma of especially in handover like you're on grade level, you're doing eighth grade math and somehow you're behind, right? Because everybody else is doing something much higher. So, they're in the math class with everybody else. They're doing math the same way everybody else is. Um, so it has been very good. There are definitely some students who don't do very well. Um, and that with the screen learning, that's something that

124we're um we're working on and trying to make sure that we actually build time in. And that's where the especially on Wednesdays there's more ability for direct instruction. Um there is a lot of times when you can sit down. Oh, one of the other things that happens sorry um is that eighth graders also I think because of developmentally they sort of self form groups. They figure out in the class like okay here here are students who are doing basically the same thing I do. So we're going to sit together and we're going to work on the same thing at the same time. So it becomes de facto group work. Seventh graders don't do that. Like unless you tell them to sit with somebody, they're gonna think that they have to do it entirely on their

125own or they're just going to sit with their friends, which is another thing to figure out. And actually, I I struggle with the group comments because I saw a lot of positive or like I like being with my friends, but also make about the social dynamic. Is it really mixing by difficulty or where you're at in the curriculum or is it I get to be with my friends which may speed you up or it may slow you down or it may ignore the kids who are more introverted and aren't getting help or talking with anyone right and so that adds another element to this that I think we have to be very careful with what we try too is with the individualization and again if if you can do it right then the students who

126like to sit and talk with people can do that and the people who because one of the things who it it comes out a couple comments from the students like we've always you know we know that math is now they do in group work and there are some students who are just like I just want to sit quietly by myself and do my work like I don't want to I do group work in all my other classes and I just do this and that also gives those students the ability to do that and we've had some students who just then take off because they don't like they don't have to worry about everybody else they can just sit there and do their math k I think my first response is like the survey made me

127want a better survey like I didn't feel like I could get enough information in terms of like I want to know the kids who are already doing well in math like it's great that maybe they continue to do really great in Excel the kids who are already struggling in math are they continuing to struggle right and I think um you know yeah there's some communication thing with the difference between response from kids and parents to me there was like oh yeah some somewhere in here is just the communication error, right? Like that probably has little to do with the actual work. Um, but I also wanted to know teacher stuff. I wanted like that concrete data around we are seeing outcomes that feel positive because I definitely I mean in reading the comments and knowing

128very little about the math curriculum. I do not have a middle schooler. Um, but thinking about um like just some concerns, right? Kids go with different paces. Um, you know, professionally I tend to work with kids who are like struggle a ton more in school. And so I think I was like, whoa, those kids are not asking teachers for help. That is not a skill set that they have. And so how is that addressed? Um, I also know there's lots of studies that show like ultimately teachers are the key, right? Like study after study says like good teachers are actually what makes the difference. And so, um, in a class that's a lot of self-direction, if it's not that experienced teacher, is it even more detrimental to the ability of this curriculum? You know, like

129should any of those eighth grade teachers retire? You know, like just thinking about um if it's a new math teacher who's implementing this curriculum, is that different than a really well seasoned um so yeah, just some super concrete questions in terms of how we get information about is this working? The asking questions thing is an interesting one because it comes up a number of times. I've had other people who are like, well, you know, my my student doesn't want to ask questions. I'm like, well, I understand that there's built in the teachers build in time every day. And when you go to the classrooms, they'll check in with students pretty much every student every single day. So, it's not like I have to ask a question. They're people are going to come and be like,

130"What are you doing? Why are you doing it this way?" You know, that's sort of like, "Let's talk through the math. We'll figure it out on a on a pretty regular basis." My other question is just from my own children, like if if you're in a room where everybody's quiet and they're all working on something individually and people are going to the teacher to ask questions, it's normalized. To me, that sometimes seems better than having to raise your hand in the middle of a lecture and saying, "Wait, I don't understand." I'm like that to me is the one that's the really difficult one because those are the kids who just if I sit here quietly and look like I'm taking notes no one's going to ask me anything but I really don't know what's going

131on. So we're trying to again that's one of those things where and even the new teachers and in seventh grade they're very good about that part. A lot of what's really difficult is just trying to keep track of 18 different students in 18 different places and that takes a lot of work. Yes. One thing I would point out is I see what you're saying in terms of the teachers walk around stuff, but it seems like a lot of teachers, a lot of parents and students would dispute that where a lot of comments were saying the teacher kind of poo poo any questions or says that you should know that or they don't talk or they they're busy and to not interrupt them. It was brought up by students and parents. Several students said flat out

132scared of the teacher. And so there's the obviously this is hearsay the he said she said whatever it is but there's enough of a pattern by several parents and students within the same question. So you know there are different people that it's concerning both as a schoolboard member but also as a parent right that this is happening or at least there's a perception that it's happening. So what can we do about that? I I think one of the other things that I I put in the little I forgot to highlight it. Um and I Robin and I talked about this because we talked about these survey data last week as well. Robin Steiner um that a large part of the illustrative math curriculum is something called productive struggle. um that's sort of built into the

133curriculum that whoever is writing the curriculum don't they don't want the students to understand it right away like there is value in okay you don't understand it but you know go back and read it again see if you can figure it out try to pick out the words you know and I understand that from a teaching standpoint that's probably really important so the student has the aha moment like oh now I get But I also understand if you're a student and you're like, I've been trying this for five minutes. I don't get it. And the teacher's like, well, yeah, but if you go back and try it again. But we also do see a number of students we have in the sixth grade happens most is I'm going to ask a question and if you

134don't give me the answer, then that's your fault as the teacher. Like I asked the question, you're supposed to tell me the answer. And the teacher's like, "No, I'm really not. You're supposed to work through it." That's another part that developmentally I think is one of those things that you know like hey I asked for help and they didn't immediately give me the answer so it's the teacher's fault so that's a problem. Now whether that happens a lot or not I can say and I understand I'm fully understanding that if I go and sit in a room teachers are going to act differently right than if I'm sitting in the room but I have a secret right so I have the rolling desk and I actually sit outside the room and listen so that no

135one knows I'm there and I haven't ever heard you know teachers say go back and do it again I'm busy don't bother I've never heard that right I'm sure that that's the perception And in middle school we talk all the time about perception is becomes reality very quickly especially for seventh graders or eighth graders. I mean at that age group I perceive that you don't like me you don't like me it doesn't matter what you know okay so we have to try to continue and it's an ongoing structure to try to figure out right and and we know from previous services people in general that often people reporting this happened they're not necessarily talking about their own kid they're talking about something they yeah that happens a lot the parent groups it's fine for me

136but you're picking on my friend you get a lot of that so questions are popping up I'm going to have one counterpoint with that which is what we me more in my parent head on which is the concern that I've that that people talk about in the survey repeatedly. It's been brought up at the math forums repeatedly and to me it's an ongoing issue that the survey elucidates quite clearly and I don't necessarily easy solution to it. I'm still going to say it anyway, which is with the illustrative math program, which happened to my kid both in elementary school and middle school, your point that you brought up where they don't necessarily see the answers. And I get things where even now and in elementary school for the same kid is we get the workbooks

137that come eventually when the workbook is full. And in it throughout when I'm flipping through what happened to my child months ago, there's things where they got it wrong and it's never corrected because there's no oversight of the material. The teacher does not look at it and aid does not look at it. So the kid and the parent depending on how stupid they are in math, does not know it's wrong and it doesn't seem to be corrected. And that is not good in my personal professional opinion because they're not they don't know what to do about it. And when I talked to the kid about it months after the fact because that's when I found out it's like I don't remember, you know, because it now it's a done point. But it also means I

138don't know if he or she ever learned it. But of course that also would mean that the teacher would need to be looking at 20 time six or whatever it is 120 problems a day every day which is also there was there was one specific comment about that and I share your concern but we did have the one that somebody wrote it's like the teacher should every day correct all the homework figure out what was wrong figure out why it was wrong and then email the parent what happened that day and what they need to work on that night. I'm like, that's a tall order. 75 kids a day. But I think there could be some sort of middle ground here where answers are given now the following day or weekly. Here's what it was

139last week. Especially because now at the middle school level, you're starting to get the point where some parents are going to be uncomfortable being like, I don't know the answer to that. And that's where we're going to have struggles with that. Right, Ella, Kelly? And that's it for now. This is not at all meant to do the derail the conversation um just because I have to step out soon because studying for test called um I did want to thank the board on behalf of the mock trial team. Um we're really grateful for all the support we've received from the community. Um I know you're considering the burn foundation donation today but um yeah we're just super grateful for all the support we've received through our fundraising efforts and we're really excited to go to national.

140Yeah. Awesome. Thank you. Good luck on your luck. So, it is getting late and I know we have other things to do. I I will be honest. I'm feeling very frustrated because I just feel like we've gone round and round and round on this. I still don't know where the teachers are on this. Like, haven't heard from a teacher all year. We've been talking about this. Still don't know. Haven't s seen a survey from them. Haven't seen anything. I feel like this data at the very like the very best thing I got is it's already four month or three months old, right? and these kids, you know, and we changed something since this stuff was assessed. And so, you know, now the seventh graders are doing different things and and that our answer is, okay,

141we're going to go back to the other way when we still don't have data about this way that we've been arguing for and pushing for. It's just I'm very frustrated with where we're at with this curriculum because, you know, to answer Dina's question from 20 minutes ago, you know, Mike, I have a kid who's a nth grader, eighth grader, worked great for him. The kid is a seventh grader. She's finally starting to get there. Finally starting to figure it out. We're getting a little more communication. It's going okay. Um, but I, you know, there's no data because this is the first time seventh grade's gone through. So that's not at the high school yet. And now we're going to change it again. And so I just ah I'm feeling very frustrated. That's not a very

142positive, but I am frustrated. You want to ask a question? Yeah, sure. So, I know I said this the last meeting and we've been maniacally focused on middle school math, but I would like to still as a board member request that some of these questions that were asked um on the survey get asked to our high school students. So, questions like, do you enjoy math? Do you feel that the math programs are supporting me and enabling me to learn math? And I think it's anecdotal evidence, but I think there's going to be some eyebrow raising because a lot of classes at the high school, I believe, are taught with worksheets. And unless you're a kid that's really motivated in math, and that's what we are very focused on in this district. There's a lot of

143kids that should like math that don't like math at the high school because of the way it's taught. Um, and I think that's something that would come out in a survey. in the survey questions got me thinking that if you were to ask a lot of these same questions to the high schoolers, it would be very interesting to hear their thoughts because there's no reason why every kid in high school shouldn't love math, right? The worst thing in this world is when you become scared of math. So, I think that this should be something that we yes, we can continue to focus on the middle school, but I would like us to start looking at the high school math curriculum, too, because I think, you know, some of these things and the way that math

144being taught at the middle school is propagating itself at the high school and we're just not even seeing it because we're so focused on this middle school. Point, I know you guys do high school level surveys on occasion. Do you have any data that be ready to go on that or would that be a future? And I'm talking sorry to interrupt and I'm talking ask the students. I don't want to hear from the teachers. I want to ask the students how they feel about math. Do they enjoy math? Do they like their math class? Do they feel like they're being taught math in a constructive manner? And I have a feeling the answer except for some of the kids that really love math and take all those worksheets and just go home and do math

145because they love math. there's going to be a lot of negative answers. Uh so Julie point you on whether it's already happening then Lisa then um we're we're happy to survey the kids if you want us to. They do surveys every um for every class at the semester point or at the halfway point for every class. So those surveys we could bring up for teachers. We can get new surveys if you want um if you want to do that. And I would agree. I think you're going to find that some kids don't like lots of their classes. Matt Prince says this every time we talk about March intensives, right? Like to get a 90% whatever. I would do that class. Again, rating doesn't always happen for every English class and chemistry class and math class.

146And so if we want just send me a survey, we'll survey them if you need to do that. Um so and I'm happy to produce the results so we could figure that out. I wanted to answer your question. So, um, so I just texted the math coordinator because I didn't want to misspeak. Um, and so things that we've noticed if we, she said it's too early to tell. Um, we can't really say yet if they're better prepared or worse prepared for the high school. We don't know yet. What we can say is we stopped giving placement tests for high school classes and the middle school teachers are appropriately placing them. So, we found this year that the the tests weren't any better than the teacher saying where they should be placed. Um, we are noticing

147more kids in the last two years that need to start at algebra 1 with us. We used to not have many sections of algebra one. Why that is, I don't know, but that's the case. However, we don't necessarily feel badly about that because she would say we support a really strong foundation in algebra 1 and notice that that's the key to success for future math. And as you know with most teachers, they want to be the one to teach it to the kids. So, they think they're better at it. So, they're happy to teach them algebra one, right? Um and then the um last thing she'd say though is she thinks that we just we who however we get these kids, we have pathways for them at the high school. We can meet their needs.

148Um we have appropriate classes to put them in to send them on their way. But they but the department here feels like that foundation in algebra one where whether it happens at the middle school, whether it happens here is the key to their future math success. Thank you. That's so that's Yeah. Okay. And if we need a survey, we could give the same survey if we want. Right. Lisa, then Neil and Michael. Yeah. I mean, Julie just sort of made my point is I thought I keep wondering like to what end are we doing all of this stuff? And my understanding was we were doing it to make sure that the kids had a a strong foundation in math because doing algebra 1 too early is not helpful. And I I just I'm kind of

149with Kelly on the frustration level. It it helps to hear from the math, you know, the high school math department because I kind of my understanding was it sort of started there that that high school teachers were seeing things that they needed from the middle school and the middle school was responding and then the middle school was doing things differently. So it just it feels like hearing from people at both levels would be really helpful for trying to figure this out. And then my only other question regarding the seventh grade is it's only been one year of doing it for seventh grade. You I kept hearing that it's because seventh graders aren't developmentally ready for this kind of learning. I'm wondering now that I'm in a 7th through 12th grade school, there are personalities that

150every grade level has. Is it that seventh graders in general aren't ready for it or is it just this particular cohort of seventh graders isn't ready and next year's cohort will be? And I just I mean I don't know that we can answer that, but I I I am concerned that we're going back to something having only given it one year's worth when maybe this particular cohort of seventh graders just isn't ready for self-paced work, but next year's will be and last year's might have been had they been given the opportunity. So I I again I'm not expecting an answer to that right now, but it's just these are the sort of questions that I'm I'm wondering about. I think it's I think it's both and there's certainly one of those like Robin and I

151talked about especially with a smaller class and you look at percentages of where people are this particular eighth grade class we have a higher percentage of students with IEPs and significant learning um issues than we did last year. So we're going to have more people who are going to start in in algebra. It's just right like and you know it's a huge percentage jump last year 1.5 this year 80% of the class and people be like that's like it's like four students right so that makes the huge jump. Um I think that there are certain personality you get more of those personalities who are ready to work on um self-paced work in eighth grade than you have in seventh grade. Even those students in seventh grade a lot of times who want to be able

152to do it just in terms of the organizational structure, seventh graders are a lot less organized than eighth graders, especially at the beginning of the year. And I think that that's where one of the other issues that comes in and at some point we're going to have to try to evaluate the transition between MCS and RMS because the the whole school structure of MCS is a lot different. And we do have this. One of the things that they really like about coming to RMS from MCS is there's a lot more freedom, but with that freedom comes you're going to have to take care of a lot more stuff on your own, which can be a big transition for students. And just a follow up that point, I it reminds me too that like there are

153it's hard to generalize this because I'm thinking of my own oldest child who in seventh grade was in a self-paced lowest level seventh grade math class. He is not generally organized and he thrived in it. He managed to do three years of math in one year because it was self-paced and for whatever reason he could hit repeat on the videos as many times as he wanted until he was comfortable with it and that worked for him. So it just it I don't know it kind of goes back to every child should have an IEP and we just call them something different and there we go before we hit the meal is I appreciate what you're saying if it's only been one year and what was that too early but also and I with my recovering

154academic tone like I agree five years of tangible results and then we'll do a detailed analysis but these are also real kids right that only get one chance for sixth grade full disclosure I'm a sixth grade parent and be really hard to look at those people and say we know these have these huge problems. We've validated that there are legitimate large significant concerns. No. And so let's keep it going and keep it running. Yeah. Okay. Neil, um, a lot of interesting discussion, a lot of great points. I will admit that somewhere along the way I've lost what the what is the board level decision or consideration before this body is this an example of a curricular change that was brought to us for approval what what I'm I I have honestly lost the point of

155why we're discussing this as a board I think what prompted the particular discuss tonight was that there was significant board interest in seeing the full survey results which as Tim mentioned are now three and a half months old and there were repeated requests to see this data and talk about it which is what we're doing tonight. Okay. And then the second point would be are there changes coming as a result of this? Did it go through the proper channels? Robin, this is something that that came up before and Robin and I did not discuss it when we talked about math before and someone said that there was this was a curricular change and in fact it wasn't like we used the uh illustrative math curriculum K through 7. This is illustrative math curriculum. What changed

156is delivery system of the same basically the same curriculum that we had. So we've changed the delivery system. We've evaluated that and been like, "Okay, this probably wasn't the best way going forward." We've done it. This happens in education all the time and a lot of times it goes much faster than you you can't do in academia, right? You try flip the classroom. Well, that didn't really seem to work very well. So, we're going to go back and do something different. So, if you're pointing out that you don't consider this a curriculum change, this was the reason why the there's a curriculum policy that came into place that the board approved of, right? So, are you saying that that curriculum policy would not cover this changes that you've made last year? Last year, um I

157think we tried to make a stronger curricular policy and we basically put the brakes on it because people said we need to have we still need to have seventh grade math and advanced seventh grade math. We have to have that split in seventh grade because originally we had thought that we would if we have everybody together in sixth grade, we would keep everybody together in seventh grade and but that was a change from what we had had before. So I think maybe that there was a change there but in terms of what we had said last year which is we're going to offer these two things and what we did those lined up. We said we were gonna offer seventh grade math and advanced seventh grade math and that's what we did Michael and De.

158Yeah. Yes, of course I can. Um, and I at this point in the conversation tend to agree with Neil, right? We've spent so much time in this and we generally don't do that if something's successful. I would say in my opinion, we did make a curriculum change. We went from teaching algebra to offering access to algebra materials and But I'm not an educator and I just don't feel hurt on this. Um, I keep bringing it up because my constituents bring it up and I happen to have a kid in seventh grade. So, seventh grade parents bend my ear all the time about math. And then reading the survey results was brutal. And so for me, I feel like my job is to hold the superintendent accountable. I don't manage principles, but I have to tell

159you on this issue, I feel like there's been a lot of talk on it, but I don't feel like parents are really hurt. I guess we're going to go back to the way it was in seventh grade. So perhaps that's an admission that it did not go well. But meanwhile, you have a cohort of kids who are kind of stuck in between various math courses that used to exist. So, I see you shaking your head and I regret not being there. But Tim, I just have to tell you at the time this first came up last year, it was obvious that this was half paved. Expectations were not set. The plan was not executed. The feedback has been consistent. And then I think the best thing to do would be to say, "Sorry, we got

160this wrong and we'll fix it." Now, at this point, my own kid is basically homeschooled in math. And so, we are fine. We're on track and we'll get to high school in the shape in which we need to. But it's really not about that. It's about the fact that seventh grade math comes up in nearly every conversation I have with other parents. And I just feel like we haven't done a good job of articulating expectations, executing upon a well- delineated plan, and teaching kids math. I think there's a fundamental difference between teaching children math and providing access to math material. And so it's been a year of frustration on this. But with that, I have said my piece and I will not comment on it again. And if I have additional concerns, I'll bring them

161to Jay and to Robin. Thank you, Michael. Yeah, I I really appreciate what Michael said. And the only thing I was going to say was that I do think when delivery changes as radically as it did that that is something that needs to come to the board. Um so I don't I don't know how you you want to parse a policy language but I feel really strongly about that. Say the fact that we're having this conversation verifies what we said. I mean, it's obviously a huge concern of the community and shall be brought to the board in the future. Michael, is your hand still up or is this a separate question? Never mind. Take that hand up. All right. Are we all ready to move on on this? Okay. Thank you for those for that

162nuance discussion after meeting the comments. I know it was long. Uh we appreciate your time on that. Thank you, Tim. All right. Next up, a donation. We're going to totally do a 180 here. We're going to talk about donation from the burn foundation for the mock trial. Two of them for mock trial stuff that Ellis elucidated earlier and for the unified prom. Um Julie, anything to chime in on either of these? The the unified prom is an annual um gift that Dorothy gives us and the mock trial is not annual. Maybe optimistically. Yes. Yeah. So obviously thank you to Dorothy for her support and I understand that that might not go on forever and those are things we need to think about but um you know she I think would prefer that we ask versus

163decide to not ask her but I think we need to be mindful that someday she won't be there to ask. So but thank you. Move on to business requiring action. Note there have been some um changes here where the so we don't so the nurses has to be done separately. Do we have a tuition rate that people have in mind given the previous discussion? We just wanted to discuss we wanted to discuss the non-public Oh, thank you for that reminder. Okay. So then I did put it down into public refresh. So let's see if we can have and craft a new agenda. um discuss it very quickly. Can I just go first because there's one the nomination list is in this consent agenda but it's in the non-public right so is there a need to

164talk about it in non-public first [Music] right Julie do you have anything you wish particular present regarding the nomination list the human wanted to retire and then decided not to retire and we don't have to hire that position anymore. All right. There is still separate I will point out there is still separate for a nonpublic that's comfortable with that language in terms of business requiring. Yeah. Okay. So, in terms of a refreshed uh consent item, they'll note that the substant nurse pay is item G with the same parameters as discussed at previous um boards. So, I will take a motion for items B through J by consent. Deb, I move to approve items B through J by consent. Seconded by Lisa. We have to do one at a time since we have folks online. Starting

165with Neil, yes. Yes. McConnell, yes. A yes. Christie, yes. Nelson, yes. Russell, yes. Garrett, he doesn't vote. Thank you for that. Okay. Sorry, Garrett. Vote. Yes. And Keany, yes. Thank you. That is unanimous. Everyone, now we're going to move on report of the chair. I will be brief. The only thing that is really the one I want to bring up tonight is we were anticipating having the town manager here to make the meeting even longer to go over things related to the tiff and taxual financing which you may have heard about previous handover meetings and other related items. I am I guess pleased to report that that issue has been tabled temporarily. I emphasize temporarily. It would not surprise me as an individual if it comes back next year. Uh for those who have been

166going to the handover select board meetings, I wish to thank um Tara, Deb, Kelly, and myself for for being there and chiming in uh very vocally according to the select board that that has I think in no small part our presence did change their mind. I don't know if they like that, but it did happen. It did not. And but it it did emphasize I think the increased need for communication like I think Kelly mentioned earlier that we little we and big we should be talking more to the town of Handover and probably to the town of Norwich as well for the relevant boards that communication is key here. No surprises. So if particularly if you are a board member that is on a town relationship board broadly defined please give us probably more detail

167than you have in the past. I I would tell the town the same thing. And so if we have something that we're talking about that we feel we should bring it to the town, let's talk about it and and make it happen. And maybe Jay can help us with the proper form of how to do that if it if it comes up. In terms of the tiff itself, it's not going to be discussed at town at the handover annual town meeting, but I think come November, December, let's be especially vigilant to those meeting notes because that had big ramifications for us if you uh weren't paying attention to it. Kelly. Yeah. And I just wanted to I guess state publicly that you know at the last I think I remember select for meeting um that

168there was some perception I think that you know we we were attacking them and that we were accusing them of you know not not caring about the kids and and I don't I don't think that was our our intention at all. So I just wanted to you know if that if that did come across that way I wanted to say that was that was not our intention. I don't believe it was their intention to take money away from kids. I think there were just a lot of unanswered questions and a lot of um you know un unclear consequences the potential consequences that that we were concerned about. We didn't have a lot of time to formulate a reaction. Um and so I think it was you know the the accelerated timeline created a lot of

169anxiety for those of us on this board and and just the unknowns. Um, so I we appreciate of course the work that they're doing and understand that they are really in good faith trying to fund the important projects for the downtown. So just wanted to state that publicly. Thank you. And I'll also in terms of a general update that the position of the middle school athletic co-curricular director has been posted and so that is out there for those who are looking for it. I can send the direct link to someone if anyone wants it or wants to send it to someone and the administration will keep us a breast of updates on that as it comes. 14 applicants. So 14 applicants. So that's awesome. Thanks for that committee. Okay. And then any other comments for

170me or not? And then we'll move on to committee reports. Any dres specific committee updates we need to hear about such as CSDC I think and council tuition which we've already heard about. I I will just say CPP has been talking a lot about heterogeneous grouping and looking at departments efforts to figure out how they best fit the portrait of the art portrait of the artist. You can tell I'm a retired teacher. Um the portrait of the graduate and the commitment on the part of the school to meeting each student where they are and moving them forward. And so that's generated quite a lot of conversation within departments about what it means to offer courses that are rigorous and how to make sure students make good choices that enable them to be stretched. And so

171it's it's a really interesting conversation and that's just sharing it with you. The finance committee. Yes sir. um which I would very much like Renee to be my backup on if I'm going to stay on the committee would to be determined. Um they had a statement on the T which was very much in line with our statement which we had convened a meeting at the select board meeting because we had a forum in case we needed to make that statement and make a last minute decision and we didn't have to because the item was consideration can't wait to see what happens next. Great. Thank you everyone for those reports. We'll move on to the superintendent report. Jay and and Robin as well. Sure. I' I'd like to just report there's some exciting stuff happening in

172our office with regard to board docs in that board is going to go away. Um docs they they have they're changing their format, changing their structure and changing their price. and Ryan took the initiative to see what other options are out there and found a program called Simly which uh was developed by a schoolboards association in Georgia has uh taken off and is being used by the New Hampshire school boards association for housing their policies and it also has a very robust strategic planning function which Ryan has already entered all of our stuff in in terms of board goals strategies and outcomes and I will be uh sharing this and and providing an initial chance to play with it with our principles next Tuesday evening at our retreat. Um, and we'll use that as a

173basis for rolling out this new model to the the board at our retreat. I I'll try to make that brief so we have plenty of time for those other priorities you've designated. But it's uh it really is exciting. It looks better. It's more intuitive and um we're ready to roll it out. So, and we're going to save money. [Music] Great. Any comments for Jay? Uh, can I say one more thing? Okay, go for it. Uh, just as far as an update on the the lawsuit. There's a lot going on. I'm sure probably many of you have been approached by the Dartmouth about um for for quotes about the lawsuit. I've been referring the asking the administration to refer those requests to me. Um, unless the board rather would rather take them. Um, and I have

174to say I've had I had one um member of the community, I'm not even sure if she was from our community, but um she asked why we wouldn't just sign the certification to say that we're not violating uh title six and just didn't understand what I had against the document. But then every other comment I've received by email has been supportive of you for having the courage to make the decision to join the lawsuit. Uh and um it's that that goes for staff. We've received a number of of um emails from staff, a number from members of the community and even students who who've um thanked us for for standing up and the hearing. We should, we're hoping that we have a ruling from the judge that heard the the injunction um request prior to

175the deadline on the 24th that the the feds have set for us to do or die. So, um I I did respond to the uh deadline that the state had given us for the 17th for returning the certification form. I didn't fill it out. I left it blank aside from the the um box where I put my name and it just said a ple attached and I attached I sent it to you. I sent a statement from our that our attorneys had helped us with that essentially said that we're waiting for a ruling on this injunction and we'll respond in due course. So that's where we are. We'll see what happens next. And also in that you guys probably all saw that news article. It has also been picked up by the Boston Globe. The

176New York Times had an article that alluded to it without naming handover and because this is handover some of the academic articles they referenced in that article are actually some of our parents in terms of just there's all the connections here and keeping in mind that we do have many parent and Dartmouth content experts that are available for this and many other things that is something we should generally work on building those relationships as well. Any questions for Jay or questions that are referencing um Robin's detailed notes? Seeing none, we'll move on to Teresa. Teresa, anything we want to chime on briefly? Sure. Um seeing the late hour for seeing that I I um attached the financial documentation, the summary page, and everything else. Um just highlighting where we're at with Dresden for this school

177year. Obviously an audit projection for the end of our school year. Um as things sit right now, we kind of roughly might be looking at $325,97 as um unencumbered um unspent expenditures. And then our revenues um because we've we've earned a lot of interest on um a lot of the money we've kept into the New Hampshire pool and only pulled it when we had to. So we've earned quite a bit of interest. So that helps um where we'll have like a surplus of 53,000 for revenues. Um anticipated again projection is looking at maybe 380,620 for fund balance operational for this year. Um given our FY24 fund balance with hageage of 35878 um so the projected fund balance right now would be about 766,498 and again if we have an offsetting surplus of 400 that would

178leave an unassigned of 366498 and um behind uh well behind for me but one of the separate documentations is just the breakdown based on function in the schoolwide. Then there's the RMS section and the high school section. And then what I've also included is a document that will actually kind of give you a um as you look at like for an example school board and superintendent under schoolwide. You'll see the notes kind of give you highlights about the overages or where we might have had underage. Um so I have added included that also. and then March intensive uh report revenues, expenditures and fund to grants. Answer questions for Teresa. Anything unexpected on the grant front? No, we've done yet. Not yet. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Okay, thank you for that, Teresa. Okay, moving along

179to the nonpublic. We do have a need for non-public. And if I could take a motion that involves items B, D, and I. That would be much appreciated. Go for it, Jean. I move to enter into non-public session at 10:01 p.m. under RSA 91- A3 2 B C and five seconded by Deb individual starting with Neil. Yes. Yes. McCie you guys probably don't need to call me. You guys can handle it, I think. Okay. Um, guys, we'll we'll call you. Hang tight. Unless you want to. I'm on my cell phone driving home. Thank you everyone for sticking around. Now we're back in public session and we will take a motion on the tuition rate. Tara, I move to approve the Hanover High School tuition rate of $24,470 and the Richmond Middle School rate of $25,910

180for the 202526 school year as Thank you. Do we have a second? Seconded by Deb. Any discussion? Right. Seeing now we do have to go individually since Garrett thankfully is still sticking around with us except waiting voting. All right. So we can do this. Well, we can do this. Arms up. Anyone right? That is unanimous. Thank you everyone. Apologies. Michael gone. Michael is gone. Yes. Okay. So now we do not have any more public addresses but we tried. And any agenda topics for the next meeting? Please let me know. There are a few things you are going to talk about if you want to take a look and then I will take a motion a motion to adjourn the meeting at 10:34. Oh, I know. I move to adjourn at 10:34 p.m. Second by Lisa.

181Individ just left. So, right. Thank you everyone. Next meeting is on Tuesday, May 27.