001So Craig and Sam are on. Ashley and Cheryl Okay, 7:30 we'll convene the curriculum committee. I believe the members are here, Dave, Lori, and Dan. So, um, first item would be public comment. Is there anyone online? >> The call is being recorded. >> Thank you. >> No. Um, and I don't know that we take public comment on during committee. >> Yep. >> And I don't see anyone here to make public comment. So, we'll move on to the next item. Um, the next item is the curriculum course guide review from high school math department. And before we dive into that, just a huge thank you. I looked through all of these and I know it's just it's human's work to to do this, but I thought I appreciate the work that goes into it and getting
002this done in such a timely manner. So, we're eager to hear from you folks and uh Jenny, I'll let you take it from there. You got more to say than I do. >> No, I will just reiterate the appreciation. Um I know that this is uh work that doesn't just represent this school year, but represents probably at least a decade uh before this. I know our teachers have been working on how we are going to publish our curriculum for some time now. I think uh I appreciate the work that they've done. I know we've dedicated time on our staff development days to to get this work done. And then again, I will also re reiterate the appreciation we have for ask us and the teaching team because I do think that many of our high
003school departments were and middle school departments were able to take advantage of that as well. So I have two folks here today. Dana White is the chair of the math department at the high school. I believe this is her second year in that role. First or second year? Second year. And I just have to say she's done a very nice job with that. And then Brian Gerki is also the chair of the science department um in our high school and they both have worked very closely with their department to uh ensure that we have our course guides completed and that there's continuity across the uh department with those as well. So I will turn it over. Well, I first just want to make a few comments. I shouldn't turn it over quite yet. Um you'll
004note that on the um on each agenda item I have uploaded the courses. Um for an example we have like pre-calc AP pre-calc. You'll note that it says that it is um one trimester 1 trimester 2 and then also the prep course. The one and two don't necessarily mean it's trimester 1 and two but it's just two different courses in the prep course. We made the choice to include any of the AP prep courses on the curriculum course guide for the AP course across the high school. And the reason for that is if we ever need to make some revisions as it relates to semester versus trimester, we don't have to completely redo the course guides. It would just be a more of a clerical update to um update those course guides. So you'll note
005that across the departments at the high school. Um and then you'll note that um we we indicate whether or not it's a LA course and in with the in the situation of the prep courses those do not count towards LA but the the two um trimesters of the actual course count towards that. Um, you'll also note that we tried as much as possible to include links to information that would be helpful to the viewer. Uh, such as the AP um website and then on um for math in particular, if you look at like our algebra course, there is a link to um the actual curriculum because in the case of math, it is considered an open curriculum. So anyone could log in and um take [clears throat] a look at exactly what the resources are
006um in there. So that being said, Dana, I will turn it over to you to see if you have any comments and then um if the board has any questions about any of the particular courses. >> I don't know what else to add. [laughter] >> I am happy to take questions. Fair. >> Did anybody have any questions in particular about our uh math courses? >> Yeah. Um there's no link to the trigonometry curriculum, >> the function stats and >> yes. >> Um that is the only course we run as a standalone. Um it's not an open resource like our algebra, geometry, and advanced algebra is. Um, we do have a a book. Um, but it's so old that it doesn't have a website. >> Well, doesn't really change that. [laughter] >> Yeah. How long have
007you been offering? >> Um, well, TRIG is embedded into our AP pre-cala and so that has always been I've [clears throat] been teaching and when it was regular pre-cal as well. Um, so it's always been embedded and I've been here over 20 years. So, um the FST is a course that's designed um to be after advanced algebra if they don't uh feel they want to take an AP course or the pre-calculus course. Um honestly, I think we ran it once in the last five years and maybe twice in the last 10. So you don't get a lot of >> We don't get a lot of registration and um it looks like we won't Yeah. Um we really would encourage more people to take it but >> they just um want to take the more traditional
008route. >> Yeah. So, I um well, first of all, as I was going through these, I was put back into the the trauma of high school calculus and trigonometry and all of the verbiage that that goes with this. Uh what I'm curious about, and this is across the the guides, okay, is down in the um required professional development for teacher course. >> Yeah. Everybody is supposed to be trained in comprehensive ma mathematics instructional framework and specifically the launch explore discuss and develop solidified practice cycles. Could you give us a little bit of I did a little bit of research on that but I didn't do a deep dive. Could you just give us a little overview of what that entails? >> Um yes. So that goes along with the new mathematical standards uh or mathematical
009practices eight mathematical practices. Um so there's a lot of work around I'd have to remember >> and I do believe that this is specific to the open up resources. >> Um and I believe that that was a training that we engaged the math department in while we were implementing it. Yes. >> Um and so that um is very specific to those the the curriculum for algebra, geometry and advanced algebra is that open up curriculum which is what the open- source curriculum is and that was a training I believe Dana um we engaged the entire math department in through open up as it related to the adoption of those materials. >> Yes, you're right on that. >> Yeah. And I do believe that you're right. It's based on those um >> which is really not necessarily
010about like math content but just about like the [clears throat] ways in which we approach math. So that's >> yeah like facilitating group discussions um facilitating student ownership over their work. >> Yeah. And if you click on the link to the Wisconsin um standards um I'm just going to go scroll to the top. Um there is uh the um it goes right through the standards for mathematical practice. Um page 21. I'll scroll to it in case you don't have time to read the 240 page document. It's all based on um Well, I did look at that and I'll tell you the thing that surprised me and I just had a misunderstanding somewhere was who signed it as state superintendent in 2021. >> But I did wait through some of that to see. But I do
011appreciate the links in here that took people to the state standards. >> Um and and because there is a specific nomenclature they use that you really need to understand in order to make sense of those of the standards on there. Yeah. >> So, so while Jenny's looking for that, but are you looking for something in particular? >> No, this is the standards for mathematical practice and they they span K12 and you can see them here. There's eight right here, which is what Dana was referencing. Um, so it's not necessarily like specific like math content, but more just about how we approach math. Um, and you can see them here and they really do >> which really we don't require any additional well it's always good to keep relearning but um that yeah that part is
012specific for open up curriculum which we like whenever we onboard someone new we go through and help them figure out the open up curriculum and like kind of the teaching guiding behind that. Um, and I would think that the standards for mathematical practice are just something that every math teacher. Thanks. >> That's something we specifically would need to like all need to go to a professional development on regular basis, >> which is probably a little bit different than when we get into things like Project Lead the Way where there is a very specific training and that's like a science um approach or even AP. I know AP generally has some pretty specific training uh for folks when they're teaching those courses. >> Good questions. >> Dave had his hand up. Yeah, I I really appreciate
013what you did. It's I was telling Tenny, it's easy to follow. It's easy to work with in the future if you need to do some understanding and teaching. The academic language for math and science is a learning process if you're not math and science. Um, then I have a question about the graduation requirements. I'm sure it's a it's an easy answer. Uh, where it says English, social studies, has math and the other ones it lists some courses. It just says math. and and my only I looked at that earlier and I thought everyone else has has I guess required some required courses in this and math it just is math is that because math is you can take a combination of a lot of three courses and so you just put math there. Um, yes.
014I mean, we have so many students in different pathways, I guess, like some students are doing algebra and geometry at the middle school already. >> I was going to ask that. >> Um, so we have uh it is still required for them to take three math credits at the high school uh the way that the current board language is uh written. Yeah. So like those students kind of have to take advanced algebra pre-calc and calculus. Um whereas students that start algebra at in freshman year then they're doing algebra geometry and advanced algebra. >> Okay. >> So um it really is just the number of credits at the moment not the specific classes. >> Okay. And I wondered about because I remember doing that as a high school principal myself. algebra or credit in eighth grade.
015>> They get elective credit in eighth grade. >> Yeah, >> they get math credit and point in sorry, they get elective credit if they take it at the middle school. If they take geometry at the middle school, they get a math credit, but it doesn't count as one of their three math credits toward graduation. >> Okay, good. >> Which we are open to discussing. >> Good to know. Next, my next question was about geometry. >> I don't know what my principal is. [laughter] >> Yeah. My next followup question was about geometry. >> Yeah. >> Um, and not everywhere do you find geometry. Geometry you start really in upper elementary school doing geometry things and you go through but the regular geometry course itself. >> Um, is that a requirement in there anywhere? Can they go
016through a math program and not take geometry? >> No. >> Okay. >> Unless they're on like a non-traditional plan with like a specific IEP. Um but that would be for like really low students. Um and um otherwise our students with in regular classrooms with IEPs also take geometry. So >> I I have a couple reasons for asking that because some people when they're taking their coursework like to miss certain classes. >> No, they [clears throat] geometry is a prerequisite to any third year math class. >> Well, that's what I would hope. That's what I would hope. My other thought on that concerns the ACT. I don't know if things have changed on that or not, but I read a while ago that the SAT is more leaning toward literary things, whereas the ACT has more
017on math and especially geometry than other than the as SAT does, for example. So, if you're not doing much with geometry, you might not show as well on the ACT. And not that the test is everything, but I but I know that that's that's the case. >> I would say almost all of our students are through geometry before taking the ACT, unless they got behind by failing a course before the ACT, but almost all of our students are through geometry before taking the ACT. >> There's a lot to take. I see that uh I don't want you particularly like English words. No, no offense. [laughter] Where >> let me show I don't know if this happens here. No offense. >> I get anxious looking at this. [laughter] >> In in some places uh they do
018grammar for example in junior high and eighth grade and they don't touch grammar much at all in high school later. I know that's been the case in some places. Anybody else concur with that? >> Yeah. And I didn't want there to be, okay, we touched geometry a little bit in in junior high, but we don't do it again. >> So, uh, just one want to put that out there. >> Well, yeah. >> Well, trick is really I consider easy geometry. Uh, so I I don't know, you can speak to that. >> They do they do the basic trick in geometry. Yes. >> Yeah. Um the Detroit we're talking about after geometry is a lot more. >> Yeah. >> Just the good stuff. >> Yeah. And that's a very very very small percentage of the ACT
019is the trade beyond geometry. >> It's disappointing. >> Yeah. >> I don't know if they've changed the ACT or not, but I knew that was the case. They were kind of heavy on geometry more than some other places. >> It's published like if you go to the ACT website is published. they change or so. >> Um, so thank you for that. Physics is physics is basically a math class as well. >> But not in my department. [laughter] >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Dana, I have some questions about the youth apprenticeship. >> Uh, how many students do we normally have take that and what are some of the apprenticeships? I think that um you guys we have two things. The published online are the math classes which Dana is here to speak
020about questions on the course guide that you have was printed for the law discussion. We can jump to that when we get that make sense. >> All right. Yeah, it does. So, so question about um how I'm I'm assuming that within the math department, you all are constantly watching where our students are, how they're performing, what kind of grade report cards, and you know, as far as the state level report cards, the ACT scores, anything. Um, so if I understand this right, Jenny, you and Chris are working on some formulaic type things for individual courses. >> What we're I think what you're referencing is Chris is collecting data on um student performance like as it relates to curriculum adoptions and sort of looking at it ahead of and behind. She's also, as I know, and
021you can probably share more than I can of that, like doing things like tracking like um what was the last course a child took in math and how did they do on the AP, which is part of the reason, if we want to go back to the conversation about requiring three math courses at the high school, the the challenge is if you don't require three at the high school, a child could take geometry at the middle school and then just take two courses at the high school and they're done with math like second trimester their sophomore year and they're not taking the ACT until like third trimester of their junior year. So it's a really big gap and generally if you're taking algebra or geometry at the middle school you're a pretty advanced math student.
022And so um Chris has broken down the data and helped us take a look at that. um and also helped us take a look at like who were accelerating to geometry in 8th grade and how they're doing in the long run as well. So um I know that she is I will say that she has said that the math department is one and the science department is another that really want to pick her brain and understand how the courses that they're teaching and the way that they're teaching them is like supporting our students um through and again it's not the beall end all the ACT or the um other assessments that we give at the high school but just how are we supporting them to be successful in those um endeavors and I do appreciate
023that. Um I know that was a big piece of if you remember I think back in November Dana was here at Elder Ed services um and talked about the change in advanced algebra um [clears throat] wanting to eliminate sort of the like less rigorous route knowing that um students who took the less rigorous route were less successful on some of the more um the like the ACT and whatnot as well. And so that definitely is uh always at the back of their mind is how do we increase rigor? How are we helping support students to be successful? Um and the science department did something similar as well at the high school. >> That's part of my reason I asked the question I did. >> Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. And and that's what I was exactly
024what I was thinking as the feedback to you all from what Chris comes up with I would think would be extremely important as you think about um because these are not meant to be static documents that we're talking about um certainly they're static for a period of time but not >> we better not go back 25 years and see these exact same things. >> Yeah. I don't think that that would be good. I know Dana I know you well enough to know that you're always excited to take a look at that and consider what is working best for our students. So certainly >> maybe not [laughter] but yeah >> well what I think what our hope is Dana is that we get a we get a um a format out there that now it can
025be updated. >> Oh yeah. >> Without so much upfront work on it. Yeah. Um, could you give me an example? And I see this throughout I think the high school. What what we've seen I think I see it in SC I think I saw it in science too. What an exit ticket is. >> Oh um an exit >> exit ticket might be like usually a half sheet of paper just with a couple problems on it that we practice throughout the day and then every student does it before leaving the classroom. there's something like really quick to flip through like I can see like got it, got it, got it, needs help, got it, got it, needs help, like >> okay, >> put it into piles and then I'm able to like request those students the
026next day for like our ELT um to get help and maybe retach. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. >> I like that. It's a it's a really good formative evaluation. >> Yes, it's a formative evaluation. Any other questions on the math curriculum guides? Anybody? >> Um, I just want to express my thanks um for the the quality of of the the curriculum and and the work they're doing. Um, I I have a special appreciation for that in the math department >> and I do appreciate that too. Very much so. I was an unwilling math student because I preferred the literature and the language. But I going through this I I do recognize that we're offering a wonderful array of courses. I appreciated more in retrospect what you removed >> after I looked at this because
027I did remember the conversation Jenny was talking about when you came and asked to have some adjustments made. So um please express our gratitude to your team >> for the work they did. >> One more thing I should >> the AP courses and now you have a listing of one of your goals I think is to have more people taking AP courses >> and the AVID program is part of that right. >> Y >> um how successful do you see that for these students more of them being in AP class? >> Um I think that the addition of AP pre-cal was wonderful. Uh it really opens up the avenue for a lot more students um especially if they weren't accelerated to begin with because they can reach AP preel by their senior year. Uh the
028course was created nationwide three years ago. So we got on board the first year that it was offered and have been offering it ever since. We it has a nationwide pass rate of about 80% and our school is matching that. So, um it's just offered um a lot more accessibility to students to like be able to reach an AP math course. >> I remember what I've seen the success rate in that >> going up a little bit, has it? >> Um yeah, it's only been two years. >> I mean, it's not very long. >> Both of them were the very very high 70s, maybe reaching 80 last year nationwide. I'm not sure. Um and uh we currently have about 100 students taking it. [clears throat] >> Wonderful. >> Anything else on the math curriculum guides?
029Thank you. I appreciate that. [laughter] >> I agree. By the way, this pencil looks so real. I was lucky. [laughter] >> So now that's out there for the whole public to know that. [laughter] >> Um so I will put a resolution on the board for these regular guides. And then moving to science, I will start with an apology. I was uh uploading my documents. I thought I had all of the science documents up when I uploaded and published it, but in the science department, I missed. And this was not any recollect reflection on these two courses, but I missed microbiology and physics one and two. >> I wonder where physics was. >> Yeah, there's physics. So, I had uploaded uh principles of biomedical science more than once. And when I was counting, I thought I
030had them all, but I did not have microbiology or physics one and two. So, I just want to point that out um that you did not have those to review for today. And I apologize for that. Physics one and two is on. >> I added it this morning when I realized they were there. So, they're there now, but they were not there when you got the agenda to begin with. >> Earlier, >> hang on just a minute because I want to ask Dana a question. Just remember, >> Dana, you mentioned about eighth grade geometry. Yes. >> That you would like a discussion about how it's considered, right? So, >> that's something we should probably put on an agenda. I just want to make sure we get that to talk about that. And yeah, I mean
031obviously it's a bigger discussion to Jenny's point. It would put a gap year in between. >> Yeah. >> Um >> but at the same time, I'm looking at equity between the students. Some students needing to complete calculus to graduate and some students needing to complete advanced algebra graduate. >> That's the reason you do that so you can get more in for the people who take pyate math in high school. >> Correct. But there are some that would like that pathway to be done. after [laughter] a after a precalculus >> and I will I'll add it as an agenda item. Just know that it's our it is a policy that um it might make sense in the policy discussion too. Um, absolutely. But it's a policy, our schoolboard policy states that geometry, you'll have to take
032three courses at the high school, too. And, uh, Stacy Bargains is our advanced learning coordinator. And anytime we put a child into that path, and again, we do that like as early as like fifth grade, she makes sure that parents understand that. But that's a their families making that decision in fifth grade, and it relates to them when they're juniors in high school. So um it is certainly something that we can >> we can just talk we can talk about it and discuss the pros and cons of it. >> Absolutely. >> And if policy needs to be apprised to fine. >> All right. >> Okay. >> All right. So Brian um again I apologize for missing those two courses. I just wanted to make note of that so that um if we are putting a
033resolution on the board agenda for the science courses that we're sure to review microbiology and physics one and two. Um but in the same sense like you'll note that um that uh same setup as well that if there is an AP course the prep course went right on to the same curriculum course guide um so that if we have to change from trimester we can make that change a little bit easier. Um and at that I will turn it over to Brian and any questions the board might have. >> Yeah I will just open up to questions for you guys. I don't have too much to elaborate on before >> um if you do remember that Brian came earlier I think in November to Ed services um and that is when we made the change
034we eliminated a particular physics course. Yeah, we eliminated the integrated physics and chemistry which is the below kind of a not as rigorous course offering and we also eliminated honors physics to encourage more students to AP physics >> and they are in the midst of well I think you're done with course requests at this point as well so probably analyzing what classes will be offered next year >> working on it So, um, one thing I noticed on a number of these is the there was the phrase used teacher created >> material. >> Y >> I don't know how the rest of the committee members think about that. Um, I know I I don't want to open a can of worms on one level, but because I what we don't want these curriculum guides to turn
035into is an iteration of every single thing that is used, but the purpose of them was to make sure in my mind, okay, I I really should speak for me, was so that they're the link to them is prominent on our website and a parent or someone looking at the district could go to and have some measure of confidence about subject matter and um materials that are being used, textbooks, you know, outside resources and math, they were there, you know, [clears throat] um and some of the science courses, they're there, but I but that was something I saw on several of them with teacher created materials. So, um, I know that happens and I don't know that there's a good way to handle that or if we need to. So, I'm I'm open to opinions
036from everybody here. >> So, when when the science department analyzed um the standards and where they were at um they um first I'd just like to state that the courses are always based on the board approved standards. So in this case um Wisconsin uses both next generation science standards which is linked there and then the Wisconsin state standards as well. And so rest assured that all the courses and the teacher created materials if you will are based on those board approved standards. Um I know that for instance um the biology course they are using something called open sed which is um sort of the same like open resource where you can go take a look at that and they have discussed potentially in uh I believe chemistry and physics um moving in that direction as
037well but they really were spending time as department piloting that open sad um to see if that made sense for department. So, as we spoke about in math, I believe that this is like a a process that we will continually revisit. I will also say that I know that if someone wants access to additional resources, I know that our teachers um have that all available on like a Google classroom. Um and so if people want to like dig deeper and look closer, certainly this curriculum course guide is like the first step. But if they want to look closer, the Google Classroom would be um a really great resource to be able to really see the materials that they're um using in those classes. So, I don't want anyone to think that when it says like
038teacher created materials, it's like Sunday night and the teacher is like trying to figure out exactly what they're going [laughter] to teach on Monday. That's not what that is. It really is that over time with their expertise, they they've honed the resources that they know work for those students. Um, and that certainly at any point if anyone's um, interested in examining that a little bit more closely, I know that we could easily share that with parents or board members or anyone else who is that a fair sum. >> Yeah. I think too in the within the science department there's kind of very stable department over the last 10 years and there's a lot of expertise in that department that have been doing things and been doing things at a high level for for years and
039I think that teacher created curriculum just reflects that expertise we have in the in the department >> and on top of that I know that the science department is always analyzing too um are we meeting the standards that are in NextGen or at Wisconsin level. And then I know they work with Chris to analyze um the assessment data um and where there may be some gaps or challenges and things that they want to um improve as well. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Okay. >> I I was I really liked what I saw in this. I look at the I think the unit plans that are shown later the topics really help us understand as well. I was curious. I know it's next generation science and I'm I understand that those uh that includes engineering in some
040>> where would what course would you put that in the most? >> That's a great question. I mean I the goal of the next generation science standards is that the engineering would be integrated in all of the courses. Um the reality is that it fits better in some than others. So like in physics for example, yeah, that would be a place that it would fit very very easily. Um the whole PLTW uh biomedical engineering pathway. So that's principles of biomedical science um and the rest of the PLTW classes listed. There's an engineering component in those classes as well. Um so those are probably the biggest two um in the physics and the PLTW classes where where I see that. >> Okay, good. Great answer. Thank you. One of the things I liked about looking at
041the science ones was on that those categories where you check the boxes and you've got blended, you've got those demonstration, high order thinking, student projects, interview study labs. They check a lot of boxes in there, which they should. So, absolutely, it was really good. I appreciate that. >> And then over in the other box, you got online. Um, that's a little more that's a little more difficult to do those classes, I would think. >> Yes. because it kind of does away with the labs pretty much. >> Absolutely. >> So anyway, thanks for what you do. Appreciate it. >> So in the [clears throat] in the biology area >> and in I think I saw it might have seen in earth science. I can't take in the biology. >> I noticed that the the word evolution
042was used which did not surprise me. do um is the are any other theories of origins included in our science program? >> So in terms of the standards that we're addressing the board adopted standards include a section on on evolution. There are not other um origin theories that are included in the science standards. No. Um if students have questions or anything that they need to um wonder about, they can they can ask, they can talk to their families. Um and that's kind of that's where that's where we address that. So we don't give them an option. We don't we present it as a theory and we say what about other theories or possibilities if anything. So I mean we put we teach water in this in the standards in terms of um how evolution is
043changed in a gene pool over time within a population um and that can lead to speciation over time. We don't get into a lot of like human evolution theories or origin of life that type of stuff. uh we stay kind of in the like what's listed in the in the standards which are evolution is changing the human pool over time and where that >> so it's about that definition >> yeah I mean it's about that speciation and yeah it's not really getting into >> like the origin of the universe >> yeah I mean there's there's talk about you know geological time and and age of the universe and um stuff like that of what's happened over time through the fossil record and other dating techniques. Um but nor is there like a values based judgment
044of what is happening or how the universe came to be. >> So it's more micro than macro would you say? >> I would say in most yeah in general that would be factor that's more focused on the micro evolution. >> Yeah. Uh but I mean speciation map evolution is included in the in the standards and so that's something that we that we teach >> and I think as El and I have discussed too as we embark on examining the curriculum course guides. We also remind ourselves that the board does have a policy on controversial issues and the board has provided guidance to our teachers about what we're necessarily notifying parents about ahead of time. I will go back to my reference to like Google classrooms. They also send out the staff sends out syllabi syllabi
045um so families are aware ahead of time about what's being taught. And again, I guess I would encourage families who are concerned to have a conversation with the the teachers. I think our teachers at the high school have done a nice job um informing parents. um we've gotten better at it as the year has progressed when there are um topics that would fall under that controversial issues policy letting families know. And again, to me, that starts the conversation um with the the school and with the family about um if there are individual family values that they um want to ensure that their child feels comfortable in the classroom with those being taught. We're never going to be perfect. Um, but I do think that we have certainly made progress with that. Um, and again, when
046we say teacher created materials, we're always going back to the fact that they're based on the standards um that have been approved um and used in the district as well. So, >> yeah, obviously we're we're communicating with with families. Anecdotally, I mean, I've been here nine years and teaching biology all of those years. I haven't had any um parent conversations around what we're teaching or complaints about what we're teaching. Um I think because it is based on the on the standards and I've had students ask questions which I think is a perfect uh thing to do like you know I heard this here I'd heard this here. What do you what do you think? Like I think that's a that's a valuable thing that students can ask each other. Um but you know anecdotally it's
047not had any. >> So when you when you bring up the topic um I understand the human evolution portion of it is as in your thinking being quote separate from um but evolution is is more than that. Okay. When it's presented do you present that as a controversial topic and and notify parents or do you not? >> Yes >> you do you do include that. Okay. >> Okay. Yeah, I think at some point we should have a discussion about um in curriculum about that particular issue and um the current policy related to that. Is that a policy issue? Is that a >> tell me more what you're saying that current is? There are many school districts that now are requiring that more than the theory of evolution be discussed in a in a biology class
048or an earth science class or you know something like that. >> So future ed uh or I'm sorry I don't know done it twice now. >> Yeah we can talk about it more Jenny but >> okay perfect. I'll just make a note so that I remind myself that you and I can chat about it >> on that same topic and I noticed I expected that because I looked at the standards for years. Uh that's common core standard next generation common core and um I [clears throat] expected to see what I saw. So but I'm a creationist and uh when I went to school it was a evolution was a theory. It's now become not a theory at all and it's both it's it's told as fact. There are a number of scientists, physicists and archaeologists
049and so forth that are creationists but they're black bold from teaching in many universities and and I know that's true. of what I don't want to see and I but what I do want to see is kind of a a fair dealing with something like this. I appreciate what you're saying. You're trying to avoid the comp [clears throat] a little bit and and not focus on that very strongly. U but uh there's a a larger body of science now that actually supports creationism that we don't know about. I'd say we a lot of people don't know about and I think it's worth exploring and at least getting out there as some kind of of science and there are people well very well trained that are creationist >> and at a minimum they're intelligent design people.
050>> Yes. At the very minimum they're intelligent design. >> We have two people um online like to ask questions. Um well who was first? Do you know? >> I don't honestly know who >> Sam was first. Sam was first. Okay. Thanks, Craig. So, Sam, >> yeah. Uh, first, uh, uh, first point was about the curriculum course guide, uh, where it says, uh, teacher created materials. Um, I think a big part of the reason that we kind of settled on these course guides was because there are legal reasons that we are not able to just post digital copies of the curriculum itself uh on on the website for parents to read because having just you know the straightup curriculum itself would obviously be preferable for the parents. Uh this is a this is a good middle
051ground. Um with that being said, teacher created materials aren't copyrighted. we don't have that kind of a legal concern. So when you talked about being able to store materials on Google Classroom, um is that like is that like a is that like the equivalent of Google Drive and then it could be accessed by parents at any time in the future or is that like a temporary storage? How does that work? >> Yeah, Google Classroom is something that every student in a class would be part of. It is part of the Google suite of products. So, Gmail and Google Drive, and you can post whatever resources you're using in the classroom there. Parents and guardians can choose to be a part of the of the Google Classroom and there's a separate kind of uh tab for
052that and they can get notified when there's new things posted. Um, I don't know that most parents are choosing to get that level of specificity from their children's classes. Um but they they can get them um and they can see those classes then after the term is over are typically archived by the by the teacher so that they and then they'll start a new one for the next class but they are still as I understand it stored in the drive somewhere for quite a long time. >> Sure. And uh I suppose that's why I ask because we obviously uh we don't want to create something that or we don't want to utilize something that's cumbersome to access uh but we don't also don't want to overwork uh the people who are uploading those documents. I
053do think that um depending on how much teacher created material is being utilized for a course, you know, I think if there's not very much being utilized at all, it would be a fairly simple thing to upload that as uh as something that parents can access for their specific classroom at the beginning of the year uh or at least at the beginning of a unit. If there's a lot that's being utilized by the teacher, then I think there needs to be a larger discussion about the utilization of curriculum and the creation of uh additional materials by teachers. I think that this is a pretty important point when it comes to trust in the community. I think that uh you know part of the reason that we're seeing such a such a big change in the
054public school system is because a lot of trust was broken. And I think that if we're not going to be if we're going to say here's what our official curriculum is, but there's also, you know, potentially a lot quite a lot of other material being used by teachers that you don't have access to or that you can't access unless you take multiple hours out of your day or out of your week to try to communicate with that teacher to get a hold of the material that's going to be taught. That is I I don't know if that's really, you know, transparency for parents. I don't know if that's putting parents in the driver's seat. Um, so I just wanted to say I think that we should really look deeper into how we're going to make
055sure that parents can easily access that additional curriculum content that uh teachers are creating for their classes because yeah, that's a that's a serious conversation. Um, and then uh as far as uh the uh more recent discussion that you guys are having, I think it's important for us to remember that you know there's no uh although I think that you know kids should have a well-rounded understanding of the world that they live in. And I think that there are a lot of different beliefs out there. When we're talking about biology, this is to my understanding. When we're talking about biology and earth sciences, I would say for the age of the earth, um we're kind of talking about three different topics. If we're talking about the manner in which the age of the earth is
056measured, um that's one thing. If we're talking about abiogenesis, that's another topic. And then evolution or adaptation, uh change in the gene pool over time, as you said earlier, uh that's kind of a third topic. All of those topics are something that I think there's a responsibility to explore. I think that that is specifically because we utilize the scientific method uh in in various ways to make those uh to to draw conclusions or to develop evidence I should say in those fields. If we're talking about something like uh intelligent design um and matters like that, I think that you're stepping more out of the realm of natural philosophy into the realm of uh uh higher philosophy. So I would wonder if that would really be an appropriate topic for a science classroom. Although again, I
057think this is what David and Julain are getting at. the implementation of philosophy as it is applied to the theory of evolution would probably not be appropriate in a in a biology classroom. Although from my experiences having gone to these schools relatively recently, that was certainly not uh the subject. Uh I did have one teacher in the middle school back quite a while ago who uh taught environmental science and encouraged uh students to strongly consider depopulation, human depopulation. That was pretty controversial. I don't think that was appropriate. But the biology education I think was uh was was quite fair. Um you know especially uh coming from the perspective of uh of a community where there were people who had some pretty strong beliefs in intelligent design and even you know in certain instances younger creationism.
058So as far as that goes David and Julain I appreciate your concerns. Um, and I'm not saying that we shouldn't be uh careful about um the phil philosophical instruction of students because that's always a concern. But uh I do think that, you know, I think that when we're talking about evolution, it's really a pretty I I think it's a I think it's a pretty cut and dried topic to discuss uh genetic change over time. >> I think we can have um the ability to disagree, Sam. Well, my my point is on that too, just for your sake, it's not to make fun of creationists, other words. And and put that down as something that isn't scientific in any matter. And uh and uh I know what you have to teach and why you use the
059standards, and you're going to have to teach the standards. So, I'm I'm not going to have to change. I'm just I'm just asking you to uh consider with care those who think they're really helpful. Um, >> yeah. one one comment that I wonder might be helpful for this group and perhaps um a a little more information about virtual classroom, what that looks like, how families can access that might be a useful topic because I do think that the material that are stored there and I've seen um some of our teachers Google classrooms and they're fairly complete um and that might be a useful topic so that people can understand what that looks like and how families can access that. So, I'm sorry, Craig. >> No, good idea. Next, >> Craig. >> All right. Um, I
060appreciate the conversation. Um, when it comes to the course guides, I sort of envision the course guides as the type of information that should be normally presented to the board prior to considering them for curriculum selection. And the same is true when you go through the review process later on as to as to whether or not these particular uh courses are hitting the standards at the grade level that's appropriate for students to be challenged in in their particular um grades. So, I think I think we're we're doing a pretty decent job in that respect. But I also [clears throat] I'd also uh probably wonder where let's say a pacing guide would want would fit into this process as well. Um, so I think I think maybe that needs to be also kind of considered or
061included in in the course guides. But uh so there's that one one concern. The other uh the other is yes on this recent topic of um you know evolution and and science and the approach to science. Um I am very intimately familiar with a particular uh individual who happened to be a science teacher in her early career. [snorts and cough] and um also with uh with an approach when I was in college with uh my zoology professor uh and the approach that was given which I had a lot of respect for was hey this is the subject material that I'm required to teach you and this is not to uh make light or discount anybody's individual personal religious beliefs or convictions, but rather to focus on this particular subject material that that the school is
062required to teach you. And um as long as it's kind of approached in that particular light, I don't think that anybody would argue. >> Yes, that's what I think. >> Yeah. >> Thanks, Craig. >> Yeah. Thank you, >> Jenny. on the pacing guides. Don't we do use pacing guides throughout the district, right? Or is that mostly in elementary? >> Certainly at the elementary level. Again, I feel like Google Classroom would probably at the high school level give more insight into like specific materials if that is what the board is looking at and looking for. Um, so I'm as I'm sitting here thinking right now, how can we share or how can we help the the committee understand like what does Google Classroom look like and what are the materials that are in there and how
063do parents access that? Um, is the concern is that I I feel like I appreciate the point you made, Craig, about like this is kind of a broad overview like a parent can or a community member can take a look at that if they have questions about it. that again that's where I believe like the family working with the school in particular um is is where we need to start. I will say I appreciate the point of um the respectful and conversations that our teachers are having with students and families um and emphasizing that really truly I believe it boils down to having a positive and a good relationship between the school and the family. Um and I will always be an encourager and supporter of that. um and encouraging that that dialogue. Sure. >>
064So, um Brian, commendations on getting all of this done because this is and it's very clear. I mean, you you have a lot of detail in these and I think it's very clear if a parent jumped on here um they would certainly understand the topics that were going to be taught in all of these classes. And um if Google Docs gives a gives parents an opportunity for a deeper dive into quote teacher created materials and other things that they're using in there um I think that's a great a great solution to that. So um please don't take those conversations we don't think I think these are are well done and I think they do give the community and parents in particular a a wonderful overview of what's happening in each of these courses >> and
065that's the way I've interpreted too. My question I guess and we can talk about this in terms of the teacher created content is like what level of specificity are we aiming for like every every handout every exit ticket or you know what what is it that we want to include? I appreciate the question and I feel like I've heard from the curriculum committee like the importance of not taking away like the ability of a teacher to be responsive to what's happening with the students in their classroom and also not taking away the ability of the teacher to be responsive to like more current type events. Correct? like something could happen tomorrow in the world of biology. That would be very important for Brian biology course that we're not going to be able to reflect in
066a curriculum course guide. And we want him to be able to use his professional knowledge um to make decisions within the context of board policy to address that with his class. Absolutely. >> Um and I think that I've heard time and time again from this committee that we don't want to take that away from teachers. Um, and so the idea that every single piece of paper that goes in front of a student would be documented somewhere on the district website would be like [clears throat] nearly impossible. I mean, I will say impossible actually. Um, and so that is why it's really important that we keep in mind that this is an overview of what it is being taught and keep in mind the district policies as it relates to controversial issues and other policies as
067well. and that we're having good conversations with families. I will also say if there's anyone who has a specific concern about something that has happened like please communicate with administration. I know Jason is fabulous Whitaker Bull too who I don't mean to like you know distinguish between the fabulous Jason's in the room [laughter] but I know that Jason Whitaker is really uh really um responsive to parents and families and looking into any particular situation that someone might be uncomfortable with. um it is very helpful to us if we get that information when it as soon as possible um so that we can look into it and address any concerns that might happen. Um and so keeping all of those things in mind as we present the curriculum course guide I think is very important. Uh
068and again to me it boils down to relationship and communication with families and this is >> our step toward that. >> Absolutely. If you take if if we take away all of the options for teachers to to flexible to be flexible and turn on a dime because of because the world's not static as we know and things happen in every discipline and the fun of teaching would be gone. Every Wednesday teachers during early release time they have an opportunity in the PLC groups to like compare notes on lessons that have been going on right and like this worked really well. um I want to continue maybe infuse this a little bit more in upcoming lessons or that crashed and burned and I want to learn from my colleague about maybe didn't crash and burn for
069them and just being able not to pivot into massive changes to the curriculum but like hey this activity that I initially intended on it's not going to be more or less controversial to make a change but like I want to learn from my colleague and we're going to do something a little bit different if that if every single time to Jenny's point if every single time that had to be updated onto some sort it would screw really hard to do that and it would make this like you know you were talking about the 240 page standards that we were looking at for math. I mean the curriculum course guide would look very much like something it ends up being maybe not as much of a service to the folks having to dig through 240 pages.
070Right. >> That was never our intention. >> Understood. >> That's right. We like what we see. >> Yeah. For sure. And we like what you're doing. >> A good format. >> For sure. For sure. >> Sounds like we'll probably revisit Google Classroom. But Brian, can you just talk through real quick about how students and parents learn about Google Classroom. >> I mean, at the beginning of the beginning of the course, uh the students are automatically populated into a Google classroom from the teaching department. And so you're as a teacher, you open that course, all the students from Skyward already there. And then you post announcements or you post you know units and you know here's what we're doing today reminders upcoming things. Um parents like I'm just looking at one here like I can I
071can see the guardians that have joined a class. I can I can invite guardians if they haven't joined the class just on the on the people tab. It's kind of a It's not as robust as something like like Canvas that would have been used previously or like um higher ed institution where you have everything built out and then you just kind of plug and play. This is more of like a I'm adding this as we go. This is what we're doing this week. This is what we're doing this unit. Um adding assignments, adding materials, and and parents can can see as that comes through. And you can grade on there as well. there is an option to import that right into Skyward. I don't know that most teachers do that um step, but you but
072it is a possible solution. >> I agree. Teachers have to have some latitude. >> Oh yeah. >> On this. I mean, I wouldn't want to teach if I didn't. And and you you [clears throat] have things, like you said, happening all the time, especially in science, that social studies, and you want to be able to use those as teaching moments, >> and uh that's where teacher created things kind of come in and be at the last minute, but they're not illprepared. They're not just trying to do something on on the fly. It's something that you put in there to make the the teaching moment and the learning better. So all for that and we're going to trust you on that. >> And I maybe this is not the time for this conversation, but I I
073do wonder in terms of our our controversial issues of policy in the timeline of that of the twoe notice. So let's say something happens tonight and it's related to biology. I can't talk about it for two weeks because I need to send home the notice and get that get that back. >> Just >> that that's a really that's a really interesting approach to that question really. >> Yeah, I I could see now this is just from my standpoint. I I'm not maybe not thinking to the policy as clearly as I need to on it, but if something came up in the area of biology in your area, I would not see it wrong, see it as in violation of the policy for you to say, "Hey, did you see the current news last night regarding
074what has happened in the field of biology or, you know, breaking news?" Um, at some point we'll be talking about that more in depth. But I, you know, um, I don't think mentioning it is a problem, but I do see your, I do see the teachable moments, >> right, >> being kind of eclipsed by, oh, let's see. >> So, >> we get hung on our own at some point here. >> And I think I think in reality with any policy we make, that's probably going to happen somewhere along the line. Dispel any kind of policy. So, um, Sam, >> it's it's one of those things where you might want to go to the principal or something and ask him, you know, if this is in in the policy where maybe I I should check it
075first. I guess you better do that so you don't get trouble on the one hand. On the other hand, don't be afraid to mention there's something new about this. >> Yeah. [clears throat] in in general. think maybe we need to build that into our administrative guideline on controversial issues so that so that teachers aren't like gosh I'm not sure what I should do here >> you know >> I mean just anecdotally that's kind of where that's kind of where we're at like you know can I do this can I not do this >> and I mean from my perspective and this is just just to me as a science educator >> like communicating with parents at the beginning of the term, but we know what we're going to be, you know, teaching throughout the whole
076course. Um, and I feel like having that there allows that flexibility. This is in the curriculum. I know I will be teaching it. Oh, this came up last night. Now I can we can address that. That gives us some flexibility to to respond to things that are happening, to be flexible in the way we're sequencing things based on current. Does the policy say it has to be two weeks or can it doesn't it say what two weeks or more? >> If you come out if you come at the beginning of the semester it's longer than two weeks >> and I think >> yeah I'm happy to speak to that and Sam I don't want to jump in front of you there just respond to this though. So new to everybody, right? Like like August going
077through this as a staff kind of learning through this. Uh so the direction has been at least at the high school the direction has been like yes send out syllabus talk about and cover these 10 units of study over this trimester. Uh but always give like upcoming like give two weeks. I don't know that I saw in the policy that it was two weeks. I think we identified two weeks is probably ample time. I think the wording was in a timely way or something like that >> because with that again and you can direct me to think about that differently, but the idea was like give a parent a week to like investigate a little bit and then give the teacher a week potentially to create an alternative assignment time for that to be so
078if a if a student opts out of magnetism or whatever if that's somehow controversial like like they have an opportunity to do a different magnetism unit in a different way than what they're going to be doing in the class. So like those two things were shared with the staff at the beginning of the year. Yes, communicate out teaching a sociology class. There's going to be some controversial issues as we go through the sociology class. Um and then updating them as that unit is coming up. So at the beginning of August and then every two weeks prior. So our US uh government teacher probably has sent the most out. Uh and she probably every two weeks she's sending some out, right? And it just says, "Hey, is this something coming up? We're talking political parties. We're
079talking whatever. And just to give you a heads up, this is upcoming. And I the parents have been to this point have been really like complimentary toward that level of communication, but that does hamstring us with what Brian's talking about teachable moment magic of teaching. >> I I don't think the intent was to make it a notice at two weeks. I think I think the twoe discussion and I I know the policy says something different but the discussion around two weeks was yeah we're not giving notice the night before and oops you know um it wasn't like you have to give notice at two weeks. >> Well actually I think what prompted the twoe idea was a beginning of the semester notice and nothing else. >> So um Sam's in the queue. Sam. >> Yeah.
080Uh just a brief comment. I totally agree uh with what you guys are talking about. I think especially when it comes to science and mathematics, this is probably not going to be uh a super big issue. Um but I think that when we get into kind of like you touched on, when we get into social studies, it's going to become a lot broader because when we're talking about teachable moments from current events in social studies, you really have about the widest gamut possible. Um, I know of a I know of a teacher in the middle school years ago, like I said. I mean, this is uh this 10 years ago, maybe more, who uh who as a teachable moment brought in a news article about um a male who dressed as a woman and went
081to a bar to try to uh have some romantic involvement with other men and was beaten to death in a bathroom. This was told to seventh graders without any uh without any notification of parents. So I think that there needs to be a balance between uh teachers obviously need flexibility as David said but also it's grossly inappropriate to talk to uh you know 11 12 year olds about um maybe 13 year olds in some cases in the seventh grade. It's grossly inappropriate to talk to people's 11 12 13 year old children about topics like those. And this is part of the reason that trust has decayed over time because parents find out about these things well after the fact and it doesn't get properly uh handled. So it might not be as big of an
082issue now, but it's something we're going to have to revisit when we talk about social studies, when we talk about some of the more uh social science areas. Um [snorts] this is just something that we need to we need to maintain an awareness of is that um it's good to have that, but it can be taken in some very bad directions uh without anyone's knowledge. And that teacher certainly uh was not let go after that occurred. That teacher stayed there for many years. Um so yeah, it's it's it's a serious it's a serious discussion, but I definitely appreciate what you guys are saying about the difficulty of notification. Um and as far as the policy goes about controversial issues, it was not a guideline that you should try to let people know. The the date
083by which you need to let parents know was a firm deadline. Um, that was not a that was not a negotiable. You have to let them know before you're going to teach about it a minimum of so many weeks out. I don't remember if it was two or four, but it was a it was a firm deadline. >> That was in the guideline, I believe. >> Can I can I two quick? >> Sure. Go ahead, Craig. >> Um, I I I think Sam is absolutely right when we talk about balance. Um when it comes to the controversial issues policy, it is about balance about so many different things. When when a uh an issue comes up relatively quickly in the [snorts] you know current events type of nature. Um then uh that teacher has to
084weigh the benefit of presenting that information to the class the the the educ against the educational value of doing so I guess um or or consider the educational value of doing so in that particular circumstance. But um [clears throat] I do believe that if if that time is cut short, parents aren't being notified um of the controversial issues and I if it's if it's extended to the beginning of the trimester or semester, then that under undermines the whole intent behind the darn policy in the first place, which which is that parents are being notified of an upcoming lesson that could be controversial and have the ability to opt out of that particular lesson, not opt out of the entire course because there's going to be controversial issues being taught, >> you know. So it the
085the intent is that that okay what if if it's being presented at the beginning of the trimester of the semester what and [snorts] that particular parent happens to have an objection to those particular controversial issues that that that particular teacher is going to create alternative lessons for the entire duration of the school year or or that semester. I don't think that's that's appropriate either. So, um, we have to really kind of think about those types of things. And that controversial issues policy does one of two things, right? It one notifies the parent that controversial issues is uh forthcoming in this particular um lesson or whatnot. But it also causes causes a pause for the educator to to evaluate whether or not that particular uh controversial issue is necessary and or can be taught in a
086different manner by which it can not might not be controversial. And so so the policy the policy does serve a lot of good and um maybe I could understand making some adjustments to it that are appropriate. Um, but we I think that's more of a policy discussion in the first place. >> So, >> well, if I may, um, I've looked up the policy and I'll quote from it. Uh, the WUSD will refrain from any activities that threaten to undermine the religious beliefs that parents wish to instill in their children and from imposing upon children a set of values and beliefs that are hostile to a parents religious beliefs. However, the board recognizes that a course of study or certain instructional materials may contain content and or activities that some parents find objectionable. Teachers shall provide,
087here's the wording, effective notice to parents in advance of controversial issues being instructed in the classroom. Effective notice shall be construed to mean notice sufficiently in advance of instruction such that a parent may opt out of particular units, classes, assemblies or announcements prior to information being presented to the student. Um I think this is the most I think this is the board approved policy. So there is no specification in there on time but I think we as a board said we thought two weeks was appropriate. We were and by the way that was a bit reactive. We had had a situation where something had come out early in the semester that was like a blanket controversial issue noticed to parents and we said we didn't think that was appropriate because when the subject was going
088to actually come up the parent may not even you know recollect that that had happened in the beginning of the semester. So, um, unless there's another version of the policy I don't know about, that's the actual wording. But, but I agree, it's a policy issue and and we do need to But Brian, you bring up an excellent point. It really is our our prior point is not to just put advice around everything, you know, >> so >> which I I totally understand the intent of the policy. I think it's a valid intent and I think that makes sense. I think we're on a period from is um the controversial issue in my department is something that's written in the approved standards. And so it's something we know we're going to we know we're going to
089touch, you know, and so >> how that comes up. >> Yeah. >> It's not a matter of if, it's just a matter of when in the curriculum that's going to come up and it comes up in a different way. And you're saying earlier too, I'm going to let the parents know ahead of time because they're going to see what I'm going to be teaching and here's a controversial spot. This controversial spot. So if something comes up quickly maybe in that controversial spot, they've already been made aware that be aware of that >> might be coming. It might be coming. I think that I think [clears throat] the the smarter Jason mentioned earlier that [laughter] we're all learning and growing through this, right? That's important. I [clears throat] think what I've heard on this topic is
090that our professionals are through the syllabi informing parents at the start of a of a course. I've also heard that we're really doing a great job of communicating in that twoe period. I think what I hear is um some gray area more gray area on a on a hot topic or current issue that may come up. Just further dialogue and continued discussion is is warranted there. >> Yeah. >> But the professionals are are are doing a fabulous job, right? like they are the the commun level of communication between uh our organization of parents is is increased exponentially >> and and I think that is something that we should all be proud of. >> Absolutely. And and Brian, thank you for bringing it up. >> Yep. >> Because that's the kind of feedback that really helps
091us understand how these policies get enacted [laughter] in the real world. >> And I feel for you as a teacher, too. I understand that completely. Yeah. >> Yeah. I was thinking >> moment. I don't want to miss that. >> Right. Absolutely. >> Absolutely. Exactly right. >> Yeah. Oh, man. >> Yeah. And while while you guys were talking, I looked up the um administrative guideline to controversial issues and it is very sparse. It doesn't say anything about time. >> Yeah. I didn't think it did. >> So, I I I was kind of surprised because we discussed something a little more specific and I don't know where it went. >> Yep. So, we may need to look at that guideline too, Jason. But that's policy. So we need to get back to curriculum. But but you're exactly
092right. It's part of curriculum and um certainly related and impact one another. >> I can sure see the Yeah. constrnation of people with >> I appreciate your attitude. >> Hello. This happened yesterday and we have to wait two weeks. Yeah. >> Yeah. And I think part of where that comes from is that when we first instituted this policy, teachers sent out and and I I heard from parents, teachers sent out um this blanket statement, we may have controversial issues in in in our, you know, in our class. This is your notice, like no listing of what they were. And so, um I'm I'm thinking that I'm guessing that the administration kind of reacted in a you know, an opposite direction, saying, "No, no, no, no. be, you know, >> and I think um as both
093of our Jasons have pointed out, we are definitely learning, improving. Um this is not something that uh we don't always want to be reflective of and think about how we can better increase our communication and our relationship with families at the end of the day is what it it boils down to. I definitely appreciate um our educators in being mindful of that. And um to a teacher that I have spoken to um I think that they Brian and Dana portray uh what our teachers are thinking, feeling, and wanting to be respectful and responsive to families in the community. Um and I feel that I have seen that to a teacher across the board um within our district. And again, I appreciate the the focus on um the focus on that and the focus on building
094communication and building relationships as well. So, >> absolutely. >> I do think that all brains were really powerful, but one one segment of that was around the feeling of uh I don't know the word you used not anxiety but like not clarity, right? And so I think there there is where the future dialogue needs to fall because I think we owe it to our professionals. We owe it to our students and our staff to have clarity. And so I don't know if this is the time right here, but I think I think we that that's the spot where we can have further discussions. >> Yeah, I've got that listed as something we need to look at. >> Just take a note there, Sam. Dan >> and I think we all appreciate your attention to rigor.
095That word's been tossed around a lot. As a much younger man, I didn't always appreciate rigor. I do not. So, thank you very much. >> And on this controversial issue there, I just remind everybody that the reason we one of the main reasons we put that in play was to comply with the Supreme Court decision >> that came down in earlier in the June or so of last year. And so, um, that was that's what the precipitate anyway for that policy. So, >> anything else on the science? We've kept you two way too long. Um, but we appreciate you being here. So, um, on the science um, curriculum guides or the math curriculum guides. Anybody else? >> So, resolution for the science curriculum. >> I think on the board committee members, we're good. Put that
096on to the 23rd. >> Okay. >> Thank you so much, Brian, Dana. Thanks. >> Thank you. Good job. >> Good job. >> Yeah. Thank you very much. >> Okay. Um, moving on, we have a review of the WHS course selection guide, which is the one that has the magic pencil that you can't pick up and um, graduation requirements and the points. >> Thank you. I uh, this was a discussion and I think uh, as I stated earlier, Katie Perl is amazing. I think she is really the the keeper of all details in this uh course selection guide. Um we did ask her to print a copy for every uh member of the board because I think it's a handy uh reference in when questions come up. Um and so I do have copies for everyone
097for that as well. Um I think there were sort of three different um topics that we wanted to discuss. first being just what are the courses that are being offered at the high school and this will tell you every single one of them with a brief description of what that is. This is also available online and our um families and students get this when they're making decisions about what courses they want to take in the following year. Um the other piece that I know that we want to be sure to discuss is what are our current graduation requirements. Um and then the last piece that we want to discuss is uh LA the LA system. Um what that means and how that is enacted in place. So Jason and Chris I appreciate that you are
098both here. Um I do believe it might make sense for us to just start um the discussion about what our graduation requirements are in the district. Um these are also outlined by policy. Um, but if you turn to page six, and I'm going to scroll there right now, and I will share my screen so folks online can see it as well. Um, those are the required classes and credits for graduation. Um, I also want to turn your [clears throat] attention to the Wisconsin DPI requirements for graduation. This is, uh, what I have on the screen is pulled directly from DPI as to what the requirements are. Um you'll note that there are specific credits in every department. Um but the state does say that the state superintendent shall encourage school boards to require an additional
099eight and a half credits uh selected from any of the areas listed below. Um, one other piece that I am happy to share as well is that um, all districts graduation requirements are required to be reported annually to DPI and you can go pull up what other districts are requiring just to for me it's nice as a comparison like what are we requiring compared to the districts in our surrounding area. Um, and so there is a link to that as well. I'll be honest, I did click on that link and it doesn't work. And so if anyone is interested in that, I can share [laughter] with you the Excel spreadsheet downloaded with that information on it as well. Um, but if we turn back to our course guide, you can see the number of credits
100in every department that's required. Um, the WSD also has uh some additional requirements as it relates to a post-secary experience that every student um needs to have some sort of transcripted post-secary experience to graduate. Um, and you can see the list there. It includes an includes but not limited to an AP course, a dual credit course, a transcripted course, um, or a a a CAP articulated course. And those two are just essentially like you are taking the course here, but you're also getting credit through another university, I believe, in world languages. So, I think we work with uh Bay to be able to do that. Um, and so that is the list of things that are required there. I also want to point out that there is a state requirement for a civics exam. Um
101the civics exam you can go download and look at yourself and see what the questions are on that civics exam, but that is a requirement through the state and obviously something that we implement here um in our district as well. Um what questions might you have about the uh graduation requirements? >> Go ahead. Sorry. Does the state require um or or keep uh the uh uh the geometry course in junior high from being counted? Are we allowed to do that if we change our policy? My understanding is we are allowed to do that if we change our policy, but it is our local policy that keeps us from doing that. Um and like we said, there are some pros behind that as well. But that is my understanding. I can certainly look into that. Um,
102more closely. Good question. >> Have we ever had a student that didn't pass the civics exam? So therefore, what didn't qualify for graduation? >> I think what we see is they >> now they can retake it. >> Yes. So really start junior year and then if they have some struggles, we get them through senior year. >> Okay. Good. Yeah. anything. >> Generally speaking, they're failing other classes, too, >> if they aren't passing their civics exam. Yeah, I know. [clears throat] >> Yeah, probably. >> I know it's mandate by mandated by the state, but uh four credits of English, I don't think, is necessary. I think three, which is the way it was when I started teaching, would be enough. >> I just find [clears throat] this amazing that a former English teacher once [laughter] I'm
103shocked. He and I had this discussion earlier and I'm like I I was speechless. >> Well, you know, >> I'm asking for financial literacy. I think everybody needs a a bigger dose of financial literacy. >> I have jokes that I could probably audit that course. >> Well, I think a half credit is appropriate on that. You know, if you because if I understand financial lit literacy and I was in a situation where I was tracking that bill as it was coming through, you know, they were talking about understanding interest and compounding interest and balancing your checkbook and investments and, you know, the savings accounts and just all of that kind of thing. So I don't I don't think it's worth more than a half a credit and I wouldn't be willing to give up a
104h any kind of credit on the English side to give more than one would receive. [laughter] So, so we won't quote you then, >> but I am curious what's your rationale? What what would you cut? >> I guess I looked at that student who's sitting in that English classroom when they can't wait to get out and be a plumber or something like that. And I think the three years was enough for that student. >> I agree. As somebody who hates grammar, Well, you'd have taken six credits of math, though, huh? >> No, actually, I was um I I'm old enough to um have not been required to take very much math. Um and so I had to make it all up in college and it was very expensive. [laughter] >> Yes. >> Well, um at
105this point, did you want to have a discussion? Do you want to It's We're mandate. >> Yeah. The state >> Oh, that's right. State mandate for Yeah. No. >> Yeah. When I first moved to Wisconsin from Illinois 2000, I found out rather quickly that Wisconsin was supposed to be one of the top three states in the nation for their education program. Or at least that's what I was told or heard. I don't that's not the case now from what I hear at all. Um, but one of the reasons they were was because they had some higher expectations than maybe some of the other states. So lowering the expectations I don't think helps us particularly at all in in this issue. U and I'm I'm looking at this thinking, oh, I'm glad they still do that
106because some states have reduced those kind of things. Uh, and I'm I'm all for the uh the trades. I think that's great. But they've reduced some of those things because so many students were not passing. >> And so the point is not to lower. The point is to get everybody passing. >> That's a good point. I also think if you are on a track in science, they have a lot of course offerings and if you have to take an English course to graduate rather than taking another science course, you know what I mean? >> So >> I could use another English course. [laughter] >> Well, but which but you this is and not really worth much, but grammar doesn't get taught much past eth grade. That's why >> it's almost exclusively literature and writing >>
107and um you know do we have a do we have an option for technical writing? >> I can't answer that question. >> I mean that's that's a useful skill. >> It is and you know you don't see it in high school normally. Well, as a former English teacher and somebody who worked on English textbooks for schools, I always argued on the grammar side, I would the real test of whether or not a student understands it is can you put the sentence back together more than you better than you can take it apart. So, um, but to the point, do we have any more discussion on the graduation requirements? >> All right. Senator, >> and Dan can argue with the state on the three [laughter] And Jenny, where we differ from the state is we require
108everything the state requires us to require and we add a half credit of CTE and a half credit of humanities. Right. Okay. >> Cool. >> And a more electives necessarily. Oh, yeah. You're right. Because it's eight and a half. That's encouraged, but it's not required. >> So, all right. And then I will turn it over the two of you. I know Chris, you came in particular to speak to LA. And L you'll notice turns on. >> Chris said I'm not speaking unless Jason would you turn to me and say I need your help with this. >> Jenny, I appreciate that. >> He's been at the high school for six months. I've been there for 20 years. He's like I might need backup because like I'll be there for the extra question. >> I can start
109and talk about what I know. Right. And so >> the Latte system is a is the school's um attempts [clears throat] the right word. Right. the school's uh challenge to students that they want them to take Dan more rigorous courses, right? They want there to be a system of recognizing students who are challenging themselves through their course selection throughout high school. And in some ways, some districts in the past and maybe even now use like a weighted grade system. And if you want to compare law to like weighted grade, they're they're cousins to each other. So, uh students can certainly go through their high school career taking kind of the standard curriculum. they can walk out of the high school with a very good GPA. Um, this is kind of like a way to like
110compare the paths that two maybe two students have taken and maybe a student who has a 4.0 taking the traditional route and a student like a 3.9 who's taking a lot of like real challenging courses. It's good to just kind of recognize that that path, right? >> So, wing system allows for that to happen. Um and it it provides kind of a a a sec alternate class like class rank path, right? So like you get law a points for taking higher level courses. Those law a points translate into a comparison to other students in this in your in your grade level. Say this student performed well against this like competition in in uh course selection. I think of it like as a college football fan. kind of think of it like if you play in
111the Big 10 and you go 10 and two in the Big 10, maybe that's better. Maybe you're a stronger team than going 13 and0 in the Big West where you're playing other schools, right? So, like it just gives a metric to be able to compare those two situations. Was that >> was pretty good. >> I'll add a couple things to that. I said I wasn't going to talk, but here I am. Um, so the really we want everyone to have the opportunity to take the classes that meet their needs for what they consider their future goals, right? So we want them to be able to take those class. We want them to be able to earn the 4.0 with the pathway that fits their needs and not say that you're lesser than someone that took
112different courses, right? The university system wants to rescale everything out of a 4.0. So if we do weighted grades or anything, they undo the waiting we do. So it is just like a nice system where the kids know where they're where they are at. But then we also want to recognize when we pick our validictorian, someone that took 36 law day courses with a 4.0 might be different than and we've had students with 4.0 that took none. >> Right? So our validictorian and we have the opportunities to take those in music and in art and CTE. So if you come out with none, you really made a concerted effort like you had to avoid them all, right? [laughter] Um so we want to recognize our validictorian as the students and there's usually plural, right? We
113don't need to have it be just one, but we don't want it to be 10 with very unequal resumes before us. We use the LA system for our internal use of what we call this, but then the universities look at our 4.0's and they look at the strength of the schedule based on what they consider, right? and a tech school or a company can look at their transcript and say, "Okay, they took this engineering class in CTE." That's more important than, you know, maybe something else that the university would value. So, it allows us to have the different areas show what are their high level courses. The AP kelp for me, easy peasy. You put me in that advanced wind symphony course, that would not have gone well for me, right? So, I can choose
114the things that are the right pathway for me and we recognize that. >> And you'll you'll see I get a wide variety. You'll see law a on the curriculum course guides if that's a law a course or not. You'll see it on course proposals this year. Uh some course proposals came through on services in November that would have had law a checked as being something that would be identified as being higher rigor than than comparable courses. This subject came up for Jenny and me because I was at graduation last year and u was looking at the program and kept seeing the LA things and I've sat there through the entire thing trying to figure out exactly what it meant given what I knew about different people that were had points. Right. So um and when
115I was here back you know 20 years ago how we dealt with weighted courses was a hot topic. We must have gone through over five years at least two different iterations of how we were doing that. So your explanation is very very helpful to me but I think to everybody um because what I didn't know Chris is if essentially the universities and colleges undo the weighted grades when they level everything out >> which yeah so and so this is one of the reasons why we keep looking for ways to add AP courses and honors courses or things like that. Is that part of the rationale? >> I mean, maybe. I mean, some some of the Yes. Right. I We're always looking for ways to meet students where needs where they're at. Uh, AVID program is
116looking for greater opportunities to have their students also being connected to courses of rigor, the challenge of that program. Um, so we're all we're always looking for ways to push and recognize and for our students, uh, giving them early cheap access to college credit at while they're at the high school is always going to be a benefit. Uh, the Whitaker girls in high school saved mom and dad a lot of money because they were very AP involved in Sun Prairie and graduated in three and a half years uh, because they had so much credit that they took as 15, 16, 17 year olds. So, anything we can do with that to help >> would be great. >> Yeah, I I think that's great and that's and it's big now and universities sometimes some universities are
117actually behind the curve on that. >> Um, but taking in high school college credit courses is now becoming quite common, especially online obviously that's where they're going to do it. >> [clears throat] >> And one of my suggestions was going to be I'm kind of re saying it right now is that we increase our online footprint >> because of that and because that will also help us financially as well but also gives people especially those that can do it the ability and the the place to do it. And we don't want to be that. We want to be that place not [clears throat] Dan. looking at why Y36. Why was that the cap? [laughter] >> They decided they wanted to have a number, right? And that it had to be like so that every child
118knew that they weren't going to take 35 and someone else was going to be 36. That they knew if my plan was to be validictorian, that is a goal of mine. We want to make it so that they know what they have to take. With a 4.0 know and this number someone's not going to beat them because they took a heck [clears throat] credit more of one thing somewhere. So having a definitive number was something that when this was set up was decided immediately so the kids could have that goal and that plan and we also wanted to make it it's like I don't need to be better than you. I need to be the best for myself, right? So we're not competing against each other. We can both have that pathway forward. Um, I
119think with a trimester, like 36 divided by 4, that's nine a year. And with a trimester, it's just asking them to do like three per trimester. I don't know why they decided on that exact number, to be honest. But it has been one where like it really gets us down to like only four or five kids can do that. And do those four or five kids have 4.0's? Oh, two of them do, right? The others still are getting recognized, you know, the, you know, sumak or whatever level they're at. But giving them just a number that they could have as their goal is important, a finish line, right? >> And our students can take up to 60 classes over the current in the current schedule over four years. So 36 of those being identified as
120body would be the maximum that would be recognized at this. Go >> ahead. Well, looking at all of these offerings, I don't know there's equal rigor in in this. I mean, if I were uh I mean, there's financial considerations, Dr. Valadictori, and if I were beat out by an art major, I'd be concerned. >> I do believe and I know actually, I should say, I know we have done an analysis of the students over last seven years to just determine like is this making sense? Um, and I and I do believe that the students who it represents at the end of the day are very balanced students. It's not like to Chris's point, some people win the symphony would not be somewhere that I would thrive and be able to earn le points, right? But
121it's not like it's a student who only is earning it in one way. They're they're very balanced and they've done a point of analyzing that to make sure it is reflective of that. But I also appreciate that it acknowledges talents in areas [clears throat] other than necessarily like straight academics or um like math and and whatnot as well. I think it's nice and I think our advanced learning program attempts to do that as well recognize kids uh strengths in many different areas in many different ways. So that is something that um they analyze at the high school um and is an important piece as well. Well, given this discussion, I'm curious to know um when and to be honest, Dan and I had a kind of behind the-scenes conversation about a little bit about this
122because if you just look at the art selections and you look at math isolated from science, then it looks like we have way more opportunities in art to to earn those points. I kind of rationalize that if you put math with science, you have more opport opportunities and I think a lot of that there's so much overlap in like physics and some of that. But are those courses in art when you get into advanced print making and sculpture and some of those things there are those well- enrolled? Do we have significant numbers in those classes? >> You want to look? >> Yeah. If I just take a just do a little research here though. >> Yeah. There is a prerequisite for those advanced art classes and there is not a ton of students taking them
123and then to fit in all the other graduation requirements. They're not taking nine art classes and getting nine. I mean maybe you could find one like but I have not seen that a system to Dan's point. I know it's not a perfect system like you could in the end say this kid had a more rigorous schedule than this but before we had this system in 2019 I want to say we had lots of validictorians and there was no way to differentiate their screen schedule. So, this was an attempt to make it a little bit more even when we wanted to compare them. Is it perfect? Probably not. But I don't know that we're going to find something that perfectly values what you think is rigorous is not going to be what I think is rigorous,
124right? Like it's just not going to be that system. The um courses were selected by with within the departments and then all departments came together to say like are we comfortable with the others and I think that as a whole we were. I don't know that you could get someone that says, "Well, this one maybe, this one not." But I don't think that there is a overwhelming feeling that this needs to be changed. >> No, I um when I was over for professional development day in the at the high school, I was looking at the valadictorian wall >> and it was very obvious what had happened. I was counting like, "Wow." Um in the 19 it was 2019, 2020 somewhere in there. You know, look, I think those of us in the room that are
125older will remember. I remember the discussion when I was in high school that the gal who actually ended up being valictorian, um the the language that was used was she took basket weaving courses >> and the rest of us who had done a rigorous college prep course were like and we we liked the person. It was a good thing she was fairly popular because otherwise it could have been very lonely up there. But um it it it was very cumbersome and we knew it was not appropriate. >> So I think the system makes sense to me upon explanation. Is are there did we model this after some other district or something? >> Yeah. So Bill WS was here and had done it at Kawas. Did I say that right? >> He was [laughter] like walk.
126>> Yes. Right. And so he saw success with the latte system there and so proposed it to the the district here and >> there are some other Badger conference school that are doing it okay well and this is fairly common around the country >> our granddaughter graduated she was pretty high up there but what separated and gave her more points and so forth was something like this >> I think there's a way from way grades to this across the country. [clears throat] Can I steal a walking around numbers? Can you >> That was Margaret's. >> This is not this has not been fully vetted, right? But like I'd say half of those classes, four or five of those nine classes would have enough course requests to run in 2627. >> We're talking about the art
127class. >> Art classes. Correct. Y >> only. So only about that many classes would actually be >> correct. Okay. >> So, they can >> they have an array to choose from, but they only >> has this amount. >> I know. I'm looking. This is what >> he did compared to the English courses. He compared it to the math. Um, and but again, I rationalize that because if you put the the math and science together, I could see that offsetting, you know, the nine or 10 because there are nine courses there in art. >> Yeah. Listen. So and again I believe historically it has been that your valid through the system your valadictorians have been in lots of different cells on this graph. >> Yeah. Usually they're usually they're very wellrounded >> lots of disciplines. So
128>> any other input on the disc? >> Yeah good job. I really appreciate this. [laughter] >> I talked nonetheless. Smart Jason brought >> Chris like >> so um the last um agenda item that we have is human growth and development advisory committee update. Um just real quickly I did go and I think Sam and Lori were both there as well at uh the meeting earlier this month and I thought it went extremely well. So Jenny, >> yeah, I would uh appreciate I appreciate uh the participation of folks on the committee. Um we eventually we essentially reviewed our meeting norms um which is what we had discussed the previous meeting um and reviewed our uh consensus process. The bulk of the time we broke into grade level themes, if you will, elementary, middle, high school, and
129reviewed the actual materials that we're currently using. Um we had a binder for folk that had everything typed out. couple of technical glitches as it related to videos. I think we'll be more prepared for that uh next time. Um our intent for our next meeting is to just give those teams additional time to work through the materials, provide suggestions. Uh we did create a form. Um our consensus process basically uses a process that within the group um if they can't come to consensus then we would bring it back to the curriculum committee for feedback. we created a form for those teens to use um if they get to a point where they can't come to consensus and that if that happens in March then we would bring that to the March curriculum uh committee meeting
130for feedback from the curriculum committee moving forward. Um I I we did have a few more people absent this time. I did send out an email to let them know they can come and pick up their binder if they would like so that they have time to review them before our next meeting. Uh but overall it was I again appreciate the participation of the the folks on that committee and um it feels like we're making progress. >> Yeah. >> Questions on that? >> Uh so they're broken down into elementary, middle school, high school. >> How is that break? Um >> we decided >> Yeah, good question. We do an exit ticket, if you will, on Google. Um and we asked folks if they had a preference. I do believe we were actually able to assign
131everyone to what they preferred. There were some people who didn't fill it out. We tried to like keep like a medical person on each team. Um the teacher at each grade level is on like suggest we on the elementary team. Um and I I sent that out ahead of time and asked people if they didn't like where they were at to just let me know and I would make the change if if it made sense. And no one requested to change teams. Everyone also had full access to the K12 material. So, if you're on the elementary team, you can certainly review the high school materials as well. Um, and so I did not hear any negative feedback about that at all. >> How How are we doing with the broken links? >> Uh, Ashley put
132uh some additional links together uh in a sheet that will share that you can click on the link rather than use the QR code. Sometimes the QR codes aren't working. So, I appreciate that. I don't know if Ashley's still on. I know she had to step out to another meeting. Um but she did work hard to make sure that we had that so that folks could access that. So >> the the binder was very well done. >> Yeah. >> Very well organized and in fact I was thinking that I didn't what didn't find something and then I realized later a more a closer scrutiny. I found what I was looking for because wonderful table of contents and so it was I I just again kudos to Jenny and Ashley for uh spearheading this and taking
133ownership for it to get this committee going. And are you getting good feedback from the committee on at the end of the meetings or are you getting >> Yeah, I love that because like someone asked for instance for like where is the actual state law? So we were able to email out the link here is the actual state statute. Go ahead and take a look at that. Um we got uh good feedback about like process like uh um like ensure that we're reviewing the consensus process and you know make sure that there's plenty of time for people to go through the materials. Like it was all very positive feedback and it's just nice for us to know what people are thinking so we can adjust for the next meeting or address anything in between meetings
134that we need to as well. Well, from somebody just observing, I I thought it went extremely well as far as how, you know, everything's being handled. And um I'm hopeful that the timeline continues to work because it's aggressive. We know that. But >> and Ashley and I have outlined a couple of additional dates um because we think that maybe folks are going to want to come together again. So we look at some dates in April that we might be able to come together um for truly the the the work is in the small groups for suggestions for revisions and changes and we want to make sure people have time to do that. So >> yeah I I could see that with an hour. Dan, >> one of our concerns was the unwieldly nature of having
13524 people and I've heard nothing but compliments for you and Ashley the way you've organized. So, it's uh >> yeah, I was actually shocked that at how well it worked. >> Oh, good. Thank you. [laughter] I was like, this is not going to work. >> She's done a great job with it. By the way, we employed your consensus thing in one of our uh a meeting recently for the board. [laughter] >> I'm glad it is. It's again, I'm going to say it. You put 24 people in the room, you're get 24 minutes, right? There's just that's human nature and um at the end of the day we need to be able to move forward. We can't sit and uh discuss something until everyone comes to a 100% agreement, but we also want to be reflective
136of what the people in that committee want for our kids in our community. >> Right. And and another thing I think is really important is as Jenny has kept in front of them, our district's uh policy and the state law, which our district policy is based on our state law. So, um we're beginning to sink all of that. It's been a it's been a bit of a move and a shift to to that, but we're we're on the right track. So any other any other comments on the human growth and advisory committee meeting? Our next one is March the 3. >> Uh human growth and development is March the 3. March and February are nice because they release all the match. [laughter] >> They match up until the 28th. >> Exactly. >> So okay. Well
137done Jenny on that. >> Thank you. >> Um we'll go on to item number four. Action items. You have action items there, Jenny. >> Um, the two action items for the board, I would say the curriculum course guides for math and science on the March, no, sorry, February board meeting. >> Um, I know we have some future agenda items as well that came out of that, but those are the two >> action items that I wanted to follow up on. >> Anybody else have a different recollection to add to that action items? I don't think so. That was that was about the only action I >> really future agenda items. >> I added maybe at some point in the future discuss the eighth grade geometry credit for math and that uh go with policy. Um
138the idea of bringing a presentation about Google classroom to this so that folks can get a chance to understand that a little bit better. Um I did have a comment about controversial issues um administrative guideline whether that is coming here or to policy uh just to revisit that at some point. I um didn't put a timeline on it. Those are the pieces that I came up with. >> Would it be more appropriate to have it here first? Um, as far as the administrative guideline review, I mean the the administrative guideline in board docs is is really a lot shorter than what we were shown as a board. Um, so I I think maybe it would be appropriate to have it come here first. >> Everybody okay with that? Or is that >> Yes. I mean
139Sam's gonna want to talk about it in policy. >> It's going to end up in policy at some point. >> Right. Right. But >> we can talk about it. >> Maybe I mean on the front end of this discussion we've got all this expertise here. >> Y >> and um we're not all on policy and uh I think that we can really benefit from in policy from your front end work. And then of course as always work Oh, I didn't mean to. >> No, no, sorry. >> Uh well, I will continue to work for the middle school and high school for the curriculum course guide pieces. The middle school, if you remember, didn't have uh just the way the work days worked, they didn't have as much time. So that's why they are not here
140today, but hopefully we'll be able to bring some uh forward in um in March as well. Are we anticipating anything else from the high school in March from >> um I will be honest with you and tell you that I'm going to revisit. Um my understanding and I wish Jason was still here too is that for the great most part the high schools are done. Um, so it's just a matter of timing it out like when and how they'll be able to come to us. Um, is my understanding at this point, but if you want to revisit it, um, I appreciate math and science stepping forward and um, coming early because we hadn't initially thought we'd get any secondary ones until March. So, I do appreciate that they came early. >> Yeah, because if we
141can just keep moving, then that would be great. >> Yeah, if they come, that's my goal. >> They come a little bit of time, it's easier for us to spend time looking at them. I don't know how long it took everybody else, but took a long time to go through all those things. >> Um, and I initially wanted like 612 to come, but that just wasn't going to work this time. So, potentially we'll be able to get to that. Um, but at this point, it just didn't work right now. >> And you and I can discuss the the u theory of origins. >> Yes. >> At some point, and we can talk about how we want to >> theory of origins. well about the inclusion of that within a curriculum. >> That's where I thought
142you were going when you first brought theory of origin. >> That's why I jumped in >> because I don't think I I don't think it's purely philosophical. >> So yeah, >> I I agree with you. >> It's not there's science behind >> there's too much science behind it. >> Science. [laughter] So, so we can [clears throat] anything else for the good of the order? Um, >> okay. Our next meeting date is March 18th because we're now on our schedule. We're on the Wednesday, the >> what is it? Third Wednesday. Thank you. >> Um, >> and I almost thought we got off next month because of spring break, but the way March falls, spring break, the Monday is the fifth Monday. So, usually you get off on some of those months, but we are I double
143check that that we are set for March 18th. Yeah, March is a five. Yeah, >> five week. >> Five Sunday. So, >> anything else? >> All right, then we will stand adjourned at 9:26. Sorry, we were not able to do any record breaking today. The temp.