001Yeah. Settled in here. Okay. I didn't end up. >> Did you take your chair? >> No, I did not chair. So yours policy >> I love policy >> I'm good >> I know I'm here tonight >> you have to have a legal book >> she's got nobody Well, >> when I read eight pages on >> sexual harassment, >> I was going through all that >> determined. >> Good. >> Yeah. If you want to go to sleep >> be counting sheep any night. >> So the um >> Okay. Yeah. >> So um well we're meeting at the office >> the late country one that we're meeting at the office and >> I asked her if we could set up >> how far along are we on >> policy review. She's like, "I'll ask." But she thought
002it was way prior to we have so many books in common. We're like, "Let's just make our own library because >> Yeah. Cuz Brian6 and then >> we'll get another round of updates from Is that all neolidos honestly? >> Yeah. I mean I don't if they do something else I'm not really aware of it like but that's >> they do job descriptions and they do handbooks and they do >> they have like like 390 some of the district. So DPI used as well too. >> Okay. I just do a little different attorneys like >> he'll be like no. >> Yeah. We don't just like here's the here's the template. >> Hey guys, it's 5:30. We're going to start this meeting uh of the policy review committee on December 3rd. It looks like we have everyone
003in attendance. Thank you all for coming on a cold night. Uh well, let's uh get right into it. Um we do have public input on here, but it doesn't look like anyone is here to give some public input. We always welcome it. So, we'll move right on to section three of the agenda, the policy discussion. We'll start with letter A, the Neola policy updates 1.32.1 to 34.2 for groups O through 4,000. Uh, we got four policies on here and I'll throw this out to the committee right off the bat unless you guys have anything specific you're bringing. >> No, nothing. >> All right. Um, >> I actually I'm just wondering why we're including social emotional growth of all student language in this policy because it should be about So, if you go to the second
004paragraph from the bottom on the first page, which policy are you looking for? >> Oh, I'm sorry. Um, I'm looking at policy PO2464. Or maybe that's a replacement. >> That's an A. Yes, it's an A. It is the middle one, the 2464 advanced learner instruction book. >> So on the first page, the third paragraph from the bottom, it says in academic and social emotional growth of all students. I'm just wondering why we're including the language of social emotional growth since we have so many other policies that address that. Um the reason is uh when DPI uh has their like suggested things that you look for for uh advanced learner, right? They talk about academics, they talk about social emotional growth, they talk about um uh what do they what they call um basically uh the
005child's readiness level um compared to peers, those kind of things. So what you're really doing is you're looking at the whole child to determine advancement and and what advancement might look like. So that's why it's in there. But but that's not what this says. The context of this is the board further recognizes its responsibility to provide a strong instructional program that results in the academic and social emotional growth of all students. >> That's your language. You can take it out. >> I I I'm not on the committee, but the main reason I'm here tonight is because these kinds of things pop up >> and in that in that highlighted section there, that's former board policy. Uh and if if you if you don't want that in there, take it out. >> I I would move
006to take it out because it's not it's not defined here. It's it's ambiguous. So why would we have an issue? >> I I have no objection. And I just wanted to give history as to why it might be in there. >> Um and and it stems from uh qualification strategies from the DPI. Yeah. Things to look forward to. >> And this is I'd be fine leaving it in if we if it was defined. >> Well, I mean I I think social emotional is one of those terms that inherently carries a multitude of definitions and it's very vague unless it's unless it's a specific legal requirement, which I don't think it is. because I looked in the Wisconsin state statutes that are referenced in the policy. It doesn't look like it's there. We could either take
007out that clause entirely or we could replace the term social emotional with uh personal growth, but I don't know that that's >> Yeah. Just >> what we're really defining it as is executive functioning executive functioning growth. Um, an executive functioning skills is the ability to process information um, and to be able to disseminate. Um, so it's not just about academics. We're looking at that those executive functioning skills. Socialization say exe. It's hard to say that, but >> it is. It's not, you know, is there is there a different verbiage or word that would be better? >> Yeah. I I mean, I don't know. I'm not familiar with and maybe you guys maybe you guys have something uh in mind but I'm not familiar with a policy >> say personal grow growth in relation to executive
008functioning skills and the like >> I mean I'm not I'm not opposed to personal growth although I do think like Lori said it's a little bit vague and exact with the the therefore after right >> can can we can we uh table this until we have a definition and include definition >> or work on a definition >> a definition of what >> whatever you want to put in here whether it be personal growth or social emotional growth >> so >> they want to define the the term that we're using >> I mean for for the sake of simplicity I would say I would say that we should just remove the three words and social emotional from the policy and leave it at results in academic growth of all students um again I mean when I'm
009looking When I'm looking at the statutes that are at least the statutes that are referenced, I'm not seeing the >> How about we say academic and skills based growth? >> I like that. >> I'd be fine with academic and skill >> skills based growth. >> Yeah. >> Because then then we get those executive functioning skills that that we reference when we talk about social emotional. Yeah. That's easy. Yeah. All right. Any other uh thoughts in this section? >> I just have a question. I'm assuming that >> the uh trend is away from gifted and talented into advanced learning instruction. Is it essentially what we've known to be gifted and talented? But I know why that >> Yeah. Is that a Is that like a expansion of the idea of what it means to be an
010advanced learner, gifted and talented versus a a wider variety of uh disciplines? Do you know why? I mean, I'm just I'm just asking out of curiosity. >> This shift happened a long time ago. I don't know that anyone calls anything GT programming or gifted and talented anymore. That's >> nine. >> Yeah. I think it came with too much perceived. >> It I mean, >> yeah. I mean, >> it it doesn't it conveys sometimes a message that I think people could object to. >> The change is neutral and it I I don't feel learning as much. >> I'm just I was just curious because you brought it up. >> Okay. Yeah. Um if we don't have any further uh comments on any of the language of the policies in item A, we'll move on to B.
011>> I do have just a question, not a not a strike or anything, but just a question about identification. So the identification process says that they take race, gender, cultural, native language. >> We're taking more than just their academic what's the word I'm looking for >> abilities to decide if they are involved in the gifted or talented. remember the discussion that we had around the same kind of vernacular around the assessment and and we said in order to understand like how a student takes the assessment and how we're aligning the assessment to um you know our our identity as the individual, right? Um, we talked about that and I think one of the the things that Jason used was like um back when they were uh doing the um what was the Badger exam, right?
012There was this idea of this question about like name a season of the year that you like and write about it, right? And a lot of kids wrote about like deer season, right? Because they're from Wisconsin and that's a season, right? um that got graded really poorly by people who were uh grading these were largely outside of the state of Wisconsin, right? Because they didn't know the context of the of the learner who was taking the assessment. Basically they're saying the same thing just just as an idea knowing the learner and saying given this learner and the attributes that they produce and their acumen on things like academics, art, music because you can be advanced in art or music or uh you know a number of other areas. Um what does that mean when we're
013studying the the whole child for their individual purposes of advancement or not? Okay. So, does this district currently take certain like are are the requirements to get entered into the advanced learner program differ based on these characteristics listed? >> They don't differ per individual. We take a look at the whole all all of these things for each individual, right? It it's it's it's um just another way to talk about like supplementing the words the whole child. >> You could supplement the words the whole child to mean all all of those things too. >> I mean I guess but Jared I personally and I've been very upfront about this. I don't think a district should be involved in the whole child. That is the responsibility of the parent. The district's responsibility is to educate children. But
014that's my personal like I've been very honest about that. That's how Sarah and I first met actually. >> Well, so can I say something? >> Please go ahead. So, so I I'm I'm kind of a fan of this this person who is um autistic and non-verbal who is very good at data and programming, right? Um, and and I've been thinking about her disabilities and how she um how she managed to get through school. She she did not go to special ed. Her mother was assistant said she didn't go to special ed. She's very gifted and talented. She's amazing, right? Um but she went through normal school, but she's still nonverbal, right? And is this what you're saying when you're saying these languages? You have this this gifted and talented person who can't speak. >> That's
015what I'm saying. You take the whole the context of everything that makes you you. Okay. I don't even like using the word whole child either because it has a lot of connotations that I don't like either. But um to take everything that makes you you. We want to look at that and we want to say in context of everything that makes you you. >> Right. right? That and what uniqueness you may have determines like your advanced learnership and and to what levels we're going to serve that, right? Uh and and we have to take all of those things into consideration because you're right there there are in in basically education speak there are twice gifted people. Twice gifted people are people who have a gift of uh you know some kind of disability and a
016gift of being advanced you know despite that uh you know um challenge that they may have from a disability >> right so so what you're saying here what the way I'm reading this is you wouldn't hold this person back because she's non-verbal >> correct that's >> because there's a context here >> that's right that that's what that's what that language means >> that that is actually covered very directly ly in the next sentence after that where students with advanced learning needs in one area but learning challenges in another shall be included. >> Yeah, I would say that perhaps if you wanted to make an adjustment to it, there'd be a pretty simple thing that would be limited word smithing and it would be that the identification process and tools used shall not be inhibited by
017factors such as but not limited to, etc., etc. I'm not looking for an adjustment. I'm just looking for clarification on how the district chooses who is eligible for the gifted and talented program. That's all I was looking for. >> Can you give us some examples? >> Yeah, it's it's mainly interest surveys as well as academic performance, right? So, for the non-academic areas, I don't want to call them non-academic areas because I still think music and art are academic areas, right? But but traditionally they've been called like non-academic areas. You have to lean to things that because the reason they call them non-academic areas is because you don't have like you know an easy test that is you know scored and normed and whatever else to to take a look at. Right? So they look at
018like interest survey and um you know uh products of work and um discussion points with uh parents and and and staff who've had interactions with them in the area of giftedness that we're looking at and those kinds of things. So um we do those things as well as academic u prowess. >> Okay. >> All right. Go ahead. So while we're talking about this policy and it's how it's actually played out, students are not put into that without parental permission. >> No. >> So nowhere in this policy does it say parental permission. I just did a word search and the parents or guardian doesn't show up. Would that not in most of our other policies where there is an option for them to be in a different type of program or whatever that we do require
019parental >> not just notification but parental consent. Correct. >> This one doesn't address consent at all. This is about specific criteria of identification and how it'll be instructed and evaluated. >> Okay. So, so that doesn't So, you're saying there's another policy somewhere that would say this? >> We do a parental rights policy. That's pretty strong. >> Well, I know we have a parental rights policy. I'm just talking about this policy and it's the same thing for any policy that would be addressing special education. It's about criteria and delivery of service. There is a legal process in order for a student to receive special education services and supports not necessarily needing to be identified within a policy because that is a legal standing case. >> I do know that the district will be on the lookout
020to try to identify like and engage students that are advanced learners to see if they'd be interested in getting an advanced class. I I totally understand that. My concern, but my question was re regard regarding parental notification and consent. >> Well, I know that I can't speak directly to the advanced learners program, but I can say that like Raymond has been approached to get in like advanced classes, >> but he just worked with the guidance counselor. They didn't reach out to me for consent because at the high school age, I think the district and most parents feel like children need to learn how to schedule their own hourly schedule. So, I do not think that parents need to approve to trans to go into an AP class, but I can't speak to the addicted and
021talented program >> and AP classes, right? um or or honors classes at the high school are open to uh any child of you know who who can handle the academic level of that, right? We're talking about advanced learners being different than that, right? Um and many of the advanced learners will be in those classes, right? But but we're um when we're talking about advanced learners um they have certain rights under the law that are different from another learner, right? And and so in order to be identified and accepted into that program, you do have to have parental, you know, a and sit down and you have a a program plan that the parent sits down with the, you know, the advanced learning teacher and, you know, uh identifies all that and and goes through that.
022So >> if I remember correctly, state statute defines this as part of special event, do they not? It's a special education program, >> not necessarily federal. >> Yeah, >> I understood that pretty well when I read it because I read these things before >> um in the past even the AVID program. I was thinking about that as far as people getting into that >> same this affects the AVID program too a little bit, doesn't it? Well, um you could have an advanced learner who's in the advant program. Right. >> Right. Uh but the advent program is separate. Right. Also goes through a vetting process for students. >> Um they have aims that they're looking for for students as well. And they have parents who sign off and and have their child be in that program.
023>> That's that's what I thought and that's what I know it was supposed to be separate. I was wondering if this was included that. Now, I read something later on the on the policy here somewhere that um they have to give permission from parents to do things. You just said that yourself. So, okay, >> that's all I got, Sam. >> Okay. Uh yeah, no, interesting uh interesting questions. Um I definitely I can understand where that's coming from. I would understand if there if people wanted some sort of adjustment. Uh I know sometimes responsive gets used in not interesting ways in in legal language. Uh but yeah, no I think all that makes sense. Um any further questions? Any further thoughts on uh agenda section 3A. All right, then we will move on to the next
024section. Section B, policy updates for groups 5,000 through 9,000. I'll throw that out to the members of the committee and uh any board member who's here who'd like to talk about it. >> Go right ahead. There's enough there to >> Well, yeah. Um so, a couple policies I just have a questions about. and 5512 and 5530 which is use of tobacco and nicotine by students and student use possession of intoxicants drugs or paraphernalia >> and I raised this question before and the answer I got >> well so uh let me bring those up to make sure that I'm not you know dreaming here so on 55 512. This is a tobacco one. And I mean, it's clear what this what the school district's policy is. Okay. And then when you get down into page page
025three, is it page three? No, it's top of page two. It's top of page two. Response to policy violations. That took me by surprise, that wording. Okay. And then the suggested word wording, I'm assuming this is is Neiola if it's right. What we're looking at >> in green >> separate from disciplinary sanctions imposed for violations of this policy where where would those be enumerated? And look, >> so what are the disciplinary? What they are not enumerated in a policy that's just >> would that be services? >> Well, what are the it's understood though that we do have disciplinary sanctions, right? >> Correct. Okay. Um then on the next policy intoxicants so you get down to page two. Is this the same situation? The board prohibits the use, possession or cons concealment or distribution of any
026drug in any drug paraphernalia at any time. Um then it says that the superintendent or design will prepare you know, guidelines for identifying, ameliating, regulating, um, and all these other things. Doesn't say I didn't see anything in here that talked about any existing disciplinary actions. >> Again, those are all in the handbook. Mhm. >> Might I might I suggest that a similar clause be added to this that is in the tobacco one that says in addition to disciplinary procedures that we just read in the tobacco one be added >> to indicate that there's some clar of a disciplinary action somewhere in the district. So you're talking about taking this particular verbage. >> Well, the first part the clause. >> So separate from disciplinary sanctions. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So the the part that said
027in the tobacco one separate from disciplinary sanctions. >> I think it's just good policy to make sure that the policy is not ambiguous. >> So >> because I know we are no longer a zero tolerance district. So, but we must have >> I haven't been a zero tolerance district person before I came. That's for sure. >> Yeah. Well, we used to be um I said do many um expulsion hearings. >> There is a difference between >> members distribution. >> So, yeah. No, I I realize so um but I do think that adding that phrase would be helpful in this situation. Interesting. >> I I know when I had to write things for DPI, um things like this, I would have to say C policy man see >> oh my god the book you're talking about
028>> handbook student handbook >> and I had to put C handbook and put a link to that. >> Which you could do that on this kind of thing if that needed. >> Yes. >> Yeah. The the reason our attorneys would kind of stray away from that is um when and if the handbook's updated and the link isn't >> changes >> right and all of a sudden um we have an issue now you're creating a possible loophole for the student or parent or the parents representative to say oh well you know in your very own policy >> yeah which is updated it click this link, it goes nowhere. It means you you you're you're not doing anything, right? you know, um, and that's where we have to look at it also from a legal standpoint, from
029like from what our attorneys would say, like a legally defensible standpoint to say, you don't want to create, yes, you want clear policy, but you also don't want to create issues that can become a clerical nature that then don't get the board what they want, which is to expel this child today, right? and they get out on a technicality because a something clerical that you know was missed um but now picked up by >> the parent the parent representative or the student. That's an interesting point, >> right? Will will um negate anything. And the DPI will say, "Yeah, you you guys didn't do um clear um um uh a clear dis uh the word's not coming to me, but basically a clear distribution of your policy to the families, right? And therefore like anything that
030you want to do under that is is not worth. >> It worked well for us was legal issues but you know you relate to your handbook or so forth but yeah if it's not updated it's a problem and we used to get we used to get visited every year. So they would check to make sure that our hand or handbook policies in fact up to date. Uh, so sometimes other handbooks we have, we put that in there because they weren't up to date necessarily all the time. And I see what you're saying. I didn't even thought of that. Um, so is there there's no way of referencing anything then you have to just say verbally it's in the handbook to to protect yourself? >> Well, I think the handbook's online district website, maybe not on
031board docs, but like on the actual landing page of the school district. would be on the website and so does how does how does that affect that that they go to the website see something that was outdated? >> Well, we're working on handbooks. >> Yeah. >> Um to update them so that there is a better version that works through all of our new policies as well and we'll reference some of those. The one thing that I did talk to Cheryl Holllets about um sort of we had this conversation around so this might be new news for you but there is a way for you to um have your handbooks available in Skyward during registration and so what we are working on is during registration process in order to get through the registration process parents will
032have to um click on a particular button acknowledging that they have read the student handbooks and that they understand the information within them to even be able to complete all of the registration for their child prior to next year as well. Can we just refer to the handbook here to make it clear where you find >> you just say um as >> as outlined >> put that cl that phrase in there and then in parenthesis as as delineated in what student handbook or whatever you want to >> without any specific >> if that's online like that that's where they can go to what's how that's how is that different than putting a link to it. So, if you put a link in this >> and that link changes, okay, um, we would have to go
033through and we're going to have to revise whatever the link might be in here. And >> it's I'll I'll be honest, sometimes we can't rely on technology. >> There's the one I was waiting >> and so there is a piece where if somebody goes if I'm an attorney representing a student and I am saying, "Oh, I'm going to click on this, right? They've employed me to help this student out. I'm gonna find every single loophole I can so that that student doesn't get >> expelled. That's where I >> less of a problem if it's on the line like you said. >> So that's that's where I would like before we move forward on this like I understand what you're thinking about and asking for. Sarah and I should check in with our attorneys to say
034like putting something like this in what's the liability in that that we may be creating that we don't know. For instance, if we were to do something that we think is practical like saying uh as outlined in the student handbook, they may say, "Well, if you do that, are you going to outline every kind of consequence you ever might think of in your handbook? Because if not and you drew a consequence that's not outlined in the handbook, you may now have a liability there that you've created because it's >> I would assume your student handbooks have the clause in there that up to and including expulsion. >> Exactly. >> The generally vague terms that you need, right? >> Yeah. >> That that give you authority but don't express all the authority that you may do.
035Right. Uh, and that's why I said I want to make sure that we talk with our attorney about what we might want to look at in this section to get at what you're saying. >> But, but at at a minimum, we could add that clause with no with that phrase with no legal question. If we didn't say go, >> I'm not an attorney. I would >> Well, because we already have it in the other policy. You're talking about this. >> I mean, that that one I I'm assuming I'm assuming this >> separate from disciplinary sanctions. Yes. I would be okay with that because I know that that's something available, >> right? >> But if we were to come up with our own verbiage, I would want to run that past our attorney, >> right? >>
036But that has already been vetted by many attorneys and I would say like yeah, we could use that. >> Even adding that nothing else can be added. It still gives >> it gives the indication that there are disciplinary settings. Right. >> Right. Right. >> Clarifying is important. Refer to an administrative guideline as well. It just mentions it. Correct. >> Yeah, that's makes sense. And I think it's good to check. You never >> So Julie, just to make sure, you want to add the verbiage to the document stating as referenced in that's not I don't know what documents >> if that's legal. That's great. But at a minimum, I want to take that five words or whatever it is there out of the copy that from the tobacco use policy and put it at the beginning
037of the second paragraph on page two preceding um the superintendent or designation prepare guidelines for the identification. So >> So that's that's two action items for those two policies. It would be including uh incorporating verbiage equivalent to that clause in 5530 and speaking to an attorney about how we can best make reference to those disciplinary actions action sanctions. Um all right, any other thoughts on 5512 5530 or any of the other policies in uh section B? Keep on going Jane if you have more. I'm happy to hear them. Anyone who wants to do work is like numb. >> Can I just confirm where that verbiage is going in 5530? >> Sure. >> So, is it going Okay. 5512. >> It's going from 5512 into 5530. And at the beginning of the at the beginning of
038the um prior to the board prohibits the use of no or prior to the superintendent or >> meeting the second the last paragraph of the >> very last paragraph. So that goes in the beginning of that paragraph. >> Right. Correct. Anything else? The only thing I had I mean the mental uh policy this is policy goodness >> 8395 >> the last one 8395 >> Sarah I know that you said one time in a meeting that we don't do mental health counseling is handled by licensed professionals. that the parents agreed to which is I am Am I reading this policy right? This is making that clear. >> That is making this crystal clear. >> So that the district is waved of liability or we're >> well we just don't do it. We're not licensed health professionals
039but we will assist families when they seek out resources. >> Right. But we but we then are not we're signing we're signing off on the liability at that point that if they agree to those outside services the school district is if something goes ary there the school district is not >> it has nothing to do with us >> that's what you told me too that you perfect to outside >> oh absolutely >> you don't do certain things >> so under this policy and I have a real life example of this I've heard of students who have said that they they were struggling with suicidal ideiation and that they sought help not with an outside entity but with help within the school personnel. What is the limit according to this policy? What is the limit on
040the help they receive? >> Yeah. So, if a student is coming in and that's where they're at, um, we'll end up doing an assessment like a threat assessment, a suicidal threat assessment on them just to see where they're at. We also will contact, we've had students who are very actively seeking it out. That is immediately EMS, that is police, um, Evan's been part of those when that has happened and that is out of our hands at that point. That might be a chapter um, 5150. It might be um whatever EMS takes over from there. But if somebody is coming up to you and they're saying this is what I'm thinking of, right? We are doing that assessment of contacting the family. This is this is a significant. >> So that would never nothing would ever
041cut the family. >> No, there are partners at all. And I do think that that the bottom of page one does a good job of making that more explicit uh explicitly understood. I know we discussed previously uh the language that was in the first couple of lines of the updated paragraph. So I think that's I think that's sufficient. It's just sometimes language is a little ambiguous. I appreciate you asking that question, Jul. I guess I just want to clarify. Okay. In this district, my daughter took a test and she marked that she at one point was suicidal and the counselor called her in to discuss that and did not reach out to me at all about that issue. So, if I think if it rises to the level of needing outside assistance, they most certainly
042do contact the parents. But if the counselors feel like they can address that child's issue without the parent, they will do so. I've seen that in numerous cases >> with districts across the state, not this isn't just here. >> Is the parent notified? >> No. >> So, are you talking about the youth youth risk behavior survey? >> Yes, >> that would have been the one that we because we have to give that survey out. >> Yeah. >> And I'm fine with the survey going out. I do think though if there's anything that is alarming on there, it shouldn't be the counselor just contacting the student. At that point, if it reaches to the level that the counselor reaches out to the student, there should also be a contact to the panel. >> I think we're
043all at a good >> now was that was not in the last year. I'm guessing that was a year or two ago. was not in the last year, but now I have it where >> like student services staff cannot speak with to autumn until they get my consent. >> But that was not because anything this district did. This was history that triggered that. >> Um, and just out of curiosity, I know I'm the I'm the chair of policy, but I cannot remember every single policy. as hard as I try. I sit down for an hour or two a day and I just do flash cards. But uh which policy would that specific item fall under? >> And again, I'm not expecting you doing flashards. That's what >> I have to write so tiny on the
044back of the at the index card to fit like policy 8395. It's really tough, but it's worth uh very very tiny. Um, so I'm I'm not asking you to give me the the number or the location of that policy right off the bat because why why would you I don't have my flash. >> Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. I I I left the same >> um but uh I think it would be worthwhile for us to um take a look at that. Maybe not put it on the next policy meeting because maybe we have actually resolved that specific issue. But I think that would be more uh I think that would be relevant to the questions that Jane is asking to what you're bringing up and to the discussion we're having right now. If there does appear
045to be something there, I would be looking to put that on the uh on the next policy agenda. >> So, can I ask a question? Yeah. So, I have a friend who lost her her her daughter to suicide. Her daughter was a senior in high school. They they were buying a car. they were planning for, you know, college and suddenly she was gone. If her child had gone and and taken the assessment and they didn't feel it rose to any level that the parent should be notified, is that a problem? >> I think it's a problem. I think it's a liability. So, so do we do that if the if if it's if if the um if if the counselor says, "Oh, you know, it's it's a suicidal ideation, but it's not it doesn't rise
046to the level of concern." Does the parent get notified? I have given very specific instructions to all of my student services staff that if we are having an issue where someone is talking about suicide, >> questioning it, having thoughts of >> um even down to the point where unsecurely kids are u googling about it, we are in immediate contact with those family members. >> Great. >> Because sometimes they're not coming to you. They're not saying anything. Sometimes we'll find it because it flags on technology. >> Okay. But the parent is always notified so that the parent can get them the help they need. Correct. >> Right. Because we're not mental health profession. >> Thank you. Okay. Just wanted to make clarify that because I wasn't sure from the conversation. >> So >> that is that
047is what's supposed to happen. >> So pertinent to this policy on page two under coordination of on-site services face-toface and or virtual. >> Yep. Item C says to be eligible to receive services at school. And I'm not exactly sure what services mean. >> That means um the outside entity. >> Oh. Coming in >> comes into the school has a room off to the side to to facilitate maybe a transportation issue that the parent may have. Okay. Jefferson County requires a sign permission and a waiver. Does that make sense? >> So what you're talking about as far as how we function is that in an administrative guideline or is that specified in policy at the level at which parents get notified? >> I don't know that it is an in administrative guideline. I know that we
048have talked about this >> workplace expectation. We've we've crafted our policies to be such that it is um very obvious within our policies that families, parents, guardians are partners in what we do and um they have domain over their children. >> I totally agree with. >> Yeah. um practice and policy are often differing, >> right? So we we always try to swing for that, right? >> No, I understand. And >> that's why >> because you all do that >> doesn't mean that somebody coming in >> should you all do something different. >> It's that as far as go somewhere else. Oh, I see. >> The next people come in. >> But that's why you have it written in such a way. >> But Jane, this is exactly my point when we were talking about dress
049code, right? You can have the strongest of dress codes that says wear uniforms. >> I get it. >> Right. Wear uniforms. You're still going to have dress code issues >> always. >> Right. >> You have to keep p keep going and going and going until the culture represents the words on the page. and and we will continue to go and go and go uh until the culture represents words on the page. And that's why I you said this this is what and I said yes that's what's supposed to happen right that's that's what's supposed to happen >> I mean I >> I don't know every incident >> like I said my my friend it wasn't this >> how am I to know every incident of every >> time a counselor talks with a student I
050don't >> I mean like in policy in policy >> but they they should know right because Sarah has has made it very clear >> these are the procedures you are needing needing to take and they are representative of our policy. >> So it's written policy. >> Yes. >> No, some of it is not written. >> No, >> if I want what I'm hearing is some of it's not written. They're practicing good things, >> but it's not in writing. >> So okay. So I guess this is how I differentiate it. So our policies that we we place in our board docs are essentially like local laws, Julene, right? like local laws that we are required to follow, right? The district is required to follow. And I can see how this could fall under local laws, right?
051Like this one saying that if we need to if they need actual services from a mental health provider and the district needs to reach out, parent, guardian, blah blah blah. But when it comes to the counselors in the district, I think that they heavily depend on processes and procedures and not a local law establishing that would be my guess of like the separation of the two and why there's not like a strong policy on how employees should behave as it pertains to counseling because they rely on policies and procedures. And it's easier for the district to change a policy and procedure on the fly if something were to happen than to go through the policy process that could take 60 to 90 days via the board. Does that make sense? >> Yes. But what if
052you do have something that is not written in policy exactly, which you're saying you probably do overall, but if you don't, in some instances, there could be legal issues with that down the road. It's not in writing. Is that correct? >> At least in a guideline. >> In a guideline, right? Like like I said with my friend, you know, she had no notice. She had no idea anything was going on behind the scenes. And if the school saw something and said, "Oh, it's it's really not a big deal, right?" And then she came around behind and and looked and said, "You could have told me." That would be not just horrific, but a legal liability as well. >> Well, uh, to what extent? I mean that they're what what I mean by that is there's
053liability on the individual, right? They they could lose their their practicing license as a teacher or whatever else, right? If if they make a mistake, our liability is covered either by the policy or the workplace guidelines that we've put in place, right? and and if those workplace guidelines if if Sarah is uh during staff meetings on the agenda has a discussion point and and and says to them here's how you will interact with students when it comes to suicide right we're covered >> if the workplace guidelines are in writing >> even if they're not in writing even if they are like this is the expectation and we put these expectations forth >> that you're putting them forth just verbally or are you pretty important. >> Yeah. But verbal expectations are not they do not weigh
054heavily in here action item. >> I understand that, right? But if we can say yes, this agenda item, this is what we went through, right? Maybe there were some slides that went along with it, not necessarily in writing, right? It's not a letter to you saying here's what you need to do ABCD or here's the rules. I guess I want to understand the uncomfortableness the administration has with putting that in writing. >> That is that question hasn't even come up if we were comfortable putting it in writing or not. I'm talking about the differences here. >> I was going to say >> nobody's asked us are you comfortable putting it in writing. What's what's happening what's happening is there's a broader discussion about the whole body of policy administrative guideline and and uh I would
055say I would say staff culture surrounding mental health and uh how mental health is addressed in the district. That's a huge discussion that comp comprises dozens of different policies, dozens of different administrative guidelines and so much other stuff that's like part of ed services and probably not curriculum but many different areas. So, we're we're in policy right now. Really, all we can do is we can talk about different policies and administrative guidelines. I'd be happy to say, let's get together a collection of those policies and administrative guidelines that regard school counseling, threat assessment, and mental health. If you guys would like to review those, we can start incorporating them as we look at them as individual members of the policy committee and bringing them into the policy committee as we want. >> Yes, please. I
056think that would be a great place to start and I think it would be a great area to go. Some of that is going to end up being hey this is more of an ad services discussion some of it's going to be yes this is something we need to put in a policy or an administrative guideline but that way we can go through it and instead of having like a broad discussion where we're like oh what about this this or this we can kind of address them piece at a time. Yeah, because if if if you were said to me, hey Jared, do you think that this verbiage should be in there? Right. I I could say a little let's weigh the discussion points of that verbiage. I haven't I haven't heard anybody offer verbiage
057to put in. So I'm not resistant to any verbiage. I was just I was just having a conversation about you have policy just like you said. You you you have like administrative uh basically administrative order, right? uh workplace >> processes and procedures. >> Yeah. Processes and procedures. And then you also have that in between that administrative guideline, right? So you you have policies, you have administrative guideline and you have uh policies and procedures uh and and workplace um you know uh basically you know expectations that you need. >> This is like the fourth time I think that we've had a conversation where all of this gets mixed up. And I honestly think a big part of it is because this policy and maybe there's another one that's about a similar topic, but I think it's
058just this policy because it's called student mental and physical health services. It's super vague. Can we rename it so that we have a specific a specification about the fact that this is from external service providers? I think that would be helpful. It does to my understanding this is only about external service providers. this this specific policy. >> So, I would have to take a look at some of this um and review it again because >> I'm wondering so it right here it goes into the medication emergency care >> um which is the physical nature. So when when we have to deliver >> to deliver meds or >> and medications and stuff um we also have policy regarding that that is a cross reference. Uh but it's not just about those pieces. >> Sure. Yeah. I
059mean this is a this is a pretty like I said it's a pretty expansive topic. So I I don't know maybe it would be better for the sake of specificity to even then separate those things out just because you know it kind of weaves between those between those issues. And if we're sitting here and we all do I mean hours and hours a month like just the board members not to mention you guys who it's your full-time job to address these things. If if we end up getting into this tangled conversation about the subject, this policy probably could be better delineated and it could probably be specified either in clearer segments within the policy itself or even with an entirely separate policy. Does that make sense? >> I agree. >> Don't look at me. I'm
060not on committee. >> I asked David sounds. >> Yeah. Okay. But >> so let's uh let yeah >> I do want to make sure that Jared and Sarah understand I don't doubt for a minute >> that you are doing that >> that you are saying to all of your student services people >> any any issue that would come up under any of these especially under the the letter D self harm compulsion y >> that you are telling them to call home my concern is that what you are saying as a workplace guideline And if it doesn't get written down and somebody is doing that job, it's not you, >> they may not carry that over. >> I think what we're saying is it's really a good thing and we're glad you're doing it. We'd have
061a higher comfort level if it was somewhere in writing to ensure that no matter who was delivering that message, they knew that was expectation, right? Does that make sense? where we need help from you as the board when it comes to those things then >> right be because you can't distill every every order right every workplace expectation into writing right I mean you can't have the full letter >> but to understand the issues that you think um are important to that level that you think we should make sure uh and ensure uh either through policy through administrative guideline or some other means of writing. So we have handbooks um you know not just the employee handbook like but you know some smaller handbooks about here's how to uh do this process right uh here's how
062to um navigate a phone call from this type of procedure right to to the right people right sometimes we we we distill those things into writing as well right I just want to know the ones that you guys think are are like Jared, we really we really think that this may be a problem to the through the school district. Um or something culturally important to us that we really want to make sure that or ensure that you have ample writing backup on these things. That would be really helpful for us to understand. >> Yeah, that's that's what clicked with me on this issue, >> right? on this issue. It's clear that you you guys are like we need to like double, triple, quadruple in writing, you know, um and I I I've seen that because
063I've seen when whenever we talk about mental health, right? Uh or things like suicide or or those kinds of things, um we get really deep into the conversation. And so I, you know, it like Sam said, it probably would do us good to say, let's let's pull up like that subsection of policy work, >> right? And all of the professional development we do and everything else and let's say like how can we um really ensure that from a board standpoint all the way through administration down to any worker, right? um that these are the you know five you can pick any number tenants that are really super important to the board that we hold to parent notification whatever whatever whatever whatever whatever like and and then let's make sure that those land in that policy
064work administrative guidelines any presentations that happen right just like we do with our strategic plan we're always uh hitting those uh main goals uh when we talk to our staff, you know, um so that so that that that's inculturated. It's not just on paper. >> And on and on that um since you said that uh you know, I keep thinking of my friend who lost her daughter's suicide, >> what if somebody at the school flagged this, called her and said she needs help and she got the help she needed, >> right? you know, it's just that that one that one little caution that could have saved her life. >> Yeah. >> So, um yeah, that's really important to me that this is in here just just to verbalize this >> in in in policy, not
065necessarily in this specific >> written policy. Yes. >> Yeah, I think that would be great. What I have written for an action item and I'll reiterate it when we get to the action item section is we should compile a list of policies, administrative guidelines and personal development regarding school counselors, mental health, threat assessment survey administration, etc. Um, and we'll start to go through that and you know >> and come up with like what's really important for this board to make sure it gets incapturated around those >> those topics policy. >> Yeah. >> Right. because that will be super helpful for us to then put those through to everything. >> Yeah. >> And if we have that >> shine a spotlight on you. >> Yeah. >> Because you're on planning the chair of planning. >> What's
066it say? >> Yeah. Yes. >> Okay. Anything else in this section of our agenda? Anything else in B? I'm not hearing anything. So, we're going to move on to C, which is one policy 2266, title 9, sexual harassment policy. Uh, anyone have your thoughts? Uh, I will uh I know I know I know you're you're you're going to say something which I'm happy with. Oh, you're not? Okay. I thought I thought you were signing you were like, "Oh, I don't want to speak." I'm happy to have you speak. >> It's 209. Well, I was going to say I don't know if you have any specific notes on this, Jared, on the updates that we're making. Uh, but uh if you don't, I'll throw it out to everyone else. >> No, it looks like you've just
067got some updated names in there as names of who the the people in our policy are the the people like even like my first year or before uh who are named individuals, right? And it just needs the update to the real um people who are on staff right now. Yeah. Any other thoughts from anyone else on the committee? David >> they try to deal with a lot of redundancy through this but there is something they missed >> that wasn't in this one. It was another >> yeah there is a similar policy that I also saw some redundancy in another policy and you guys might be thinking of that one. Yeah, they they're designed to overlap, >> right, for maximum coverage, but >> um >> yeah, >> of course the pronouns had to be changed and
068>> and this is this is compliant with the current court decisions related to or executive orders or whatever related to >> Yeah. Yeah. And I will tell you like as a school district, we never moved to the inner room on one. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> We we always stayed where where we were felt grounded in this district, >> right? And so we didn't have to move and then move back, >> right? I think there was like >> maybe uh two administrators that went through the first day of course and then we like we're not putting effort and energy into that. So like I think you maybe went through the first day of Margaret, >> right? >> So >> I got a question Sam. >> Yeah. What's up? >> Referencing 2266 prohibited acts. Somebody
069uh described the word foration to me. >> I read that and thought that could be a lot of things. >> That word bothers me. It's it's it's >> I think it's more in the uh the eye of the beholder versus what I'm saying. >> Unwanted. >> Yes. Unwanted >> and wanted unwanted advances. >> Yeah, I thought the same thing. How do you define that? >> Yeah, I suppose. And I had this note on another policy, but it applies here as well, and it's very much in line with what you're thinking, Carl. There is an issue with there is a potential issue with the eye of the beholder standard where if a person claims to have experienced a a grievous or a grievance or a wrongdoing um that can get into really really gray areas. So
070do we have any clarifications in our policies? you know, is there any way we can put a clarification in about a reasonable assessment or something like that? >> Yeah. So, I I mean, one of the attorneys that I've worked with in the past um has talked about like when you're doing an investigative standard, right? One of the things that you're looking for from the eye of the beholder was was there a clear statement of uh you know, disapproval and the advances then kept coming. Right? So, it it's not just I don't like that and they continued to do it to me. Yes, but did you clearly state and and how? Um and then they kept coming anyway, right? And so th those are some of the things that uh when we're uh doing our investig
071our investigatory work, right? Um when we're interviewing and you know um talking through those things, we want to make sure it's not just an eye of the beholder statement. Mhm. >> It's an eye of the beholder statement who then said, "I'm putting you on warning and please stop." >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Um and that's that's more of the clear delineation about flirtation, unwanted flirtation. >> And and when we were talking about the dress code, um the words that were in the Neola policy that the um that the attorney asked us to put in there to cover us had legal definitions. And I'm wondering if this is the same thing where these are legal definitions and they have very specific meanings legally. >> Yeah, there I believe there are standard federal definitions. >> Yeah, that's
072what I thought when I read it. >> Yeah. >> And that to me you definitely right what you said Jared. I understand completely because I I went through that where girls came to me more than once about a teacher. So there wasn't anything but there was that fear. So you talk to the teacher say you don't do that you don't help them at this place you do it you open happen again happen again it's gone you know and so you had to build that and and document everything along the way and you you're aware of that and what you said I think was a good explanation of that flirtation turns in and it makes people feel uncomfortable and it usually goes somewhere I think you should reference a state statute in reference to that. >>
073Well, this is >> federal federal statute. >> So, federal >> federal statute, right? >> The federal statute defines flirtation. I want to know what >> I don't know that the government know what it is. I don't >> what it basically >> I mean we we would we would refer to and I think it's already on there the title n statute right federal statute >> at the bottom it should be >> oh you are referencing unit okay >> I believe I believe it's on there >> yeah this is the US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission's definition >> Oh yeah okay there you go >> is that at the top Tammy where is that one I just searched online and that's what came up with the EEOC definition. >> EOC definition >> like verbatim. >> Yeah. >> I
074knew it came out of some federal legal ease. >> Yeah. >> So pursuant to title N of the educational admin sexual harassment. >> Oh yeah. So it's cited there. I suppose if you really wanted a better understanding, Carl, we could just >> No, that's fine. That's fine. >> Forms of unwelcome verbal conduct of a sexual nature that can create a hostile environment or be part of a quid proquo scenario. >> That's fine. >> Any other thoughts on 2266, guys? Oh. All right. We can move on to our next section. 5362 anti-bullying respect and relationships administrative guideline. Uh this is something that another board member who couldn't be with us tonight requested uh we potentially add uh some language that was brought forward at the ed services committee back in September. You guys all have a
075copy of it. Um so in and she didn't necessarily mean add all this. >> Yeah. She she's saying that um a lot of our policy uh doesn't describe things that we can do in a proactive nature around bullying. She gave us thoughts and ideas in these papers >> and she'd like us to explore it. And so I think, you know, in talking with Sam, we think kind of what's best is maybe to set up a a small group. Uh asking her to to lead that group uh and um Sarah and some of our building principles. Um doesn't have to be all of them, but a couple. and just talk about like how can we maybe even some student services uh reps uh you know school psychology or not school psych school counselors um you know
076so on say hey how can we um this this gets back to our last discussion like when we when we know like what you guys think is important and what might change culture around it and we can be clear in policy and administrative guideline and how we deal with that when we talk with that about with teachers, staff members and monies like the idea that we can have a proactive stance as well as uh a reactionary stance which is our our policy feels like it's more reactionary than proactive, right? That's good. Okay, so like like let's get some of that verbiage into our policy. Let's get that verbiage into uh how we work and deal with this and let's get some resources that are proactive resources together and out there. Not saying that we don't
077do uh that uh at the the teacher level, right? Or or student services level. Um but having the the the policy that supports that's good. Well, I think page two of the policy under the heading promote respectful relationships, >> there are two sets of bullet points there that I think are pretty positive about what we want staff to do and, you know, WUSD employees in general to do. So, I we're not completely breed of positive approaches here. >> No. Um, one of the things that uh stood out in my conversation with Linda was she said, you know, um what what kind of uh policy uh supports do we have for parents um uh to help identify and uh when they do identify that their child is the bully, what supports do we have for them
078in the policy, >> right? and and what resources do we have for them to work with their child uh and expectations uh when they find out like yeah maybe I'm you know maybe I'm the boy right um and so that that was kind of one of the things that the key takeaways that she was talking about to me >> is that a policy or is that a ancillary resource that >> that's why Sam and I said maybe we should have a group get together talk about it and even if policy change doesn't come from it >> the discussion points about practice >> I think great idea >> right yeah and so that that you know because I don't know if there's anything that might change in the policy but certainly to have some more discussion
079around that and talk about practice change maybe or or practice addition um it could could come out of that discussion >> yeah if something was going to change in the policy it would probably be a clarification that uh resources will be provided to parents both of the child who is being bullied and the child who is engaging in the bullying behavior or something like that. But it would really be best to start with let's get a better idea of exactly what resources Linda wants to provide. And I think that Sarah would be a great person to meet with and then if further discussion needs to happen like you said before the meeting Jared bringing in additional uh bringing in additional members of administration in the buildings. So, I think that would be great. That would
080be I'll put this in here. >> One thing more, Sam. I think that uh you should listen to Linda because of her past experiences. >> Oh, yeah. Most definitely. Absolutely. >> I don't want to I don't want to say what people should do because I think she'll be way better at giving that information. Yeah. >> So, yeah. So, we'll have Linda and Sarah meet about resources. I think that'll work out. All right. Any other thoughts on 5362? >> I was just wondering where you got the bullying definition from just because me personally, I'm I don't think you have to have real or perceived power imbalance to bully somebody. Like I mean I was bullied in school and some people were just I I didn't perceive that they had more power than me. They had more
081of something but it wasn't power. >> They may have thought they had they thought they had or wanted to >> that's why it says real or perceived, right? >> Um if they're the ones perceiving that then you know then that's that. But um >> sometimes it's to get >> and and honestly I >> I don't recall >> if it was because we went we've gone through like three iterations even just in the time I've been here of this. >> Okay. >> Right. >> Uh and Sammy I think you've been through at least two. Some of that was uh Niola, some of that was DPI. Some of that was Will. uh some of that what I mean we we we've tackled as many resources on this even the um uh state state of Oregon has um
082uh institute on bullying whatever whatever right I don't recall where it came from that's just >> that's just the definition that the board landed on the last time we looked at it >> to make it all encompassing you could replace the word imbalance with dynamics perceived power dynamics and I think that would be like you said I I mean, my memories of when kids would bully other kids in school was always uh it was more about exercising power. It didn't really have to do with who had more or less power. It was just more about, you know, exerting a power dynamic in any kind of way, shape, or >> so. So, when I first got here, Sarah and I had this conversation and um one of the things that helped for me was that she
083differentiated bullying versus harassment. >> Yeah. And that's the real diff differentiation there is the the power imbalance perceived or real. Whereas if it's correct if I'm wrong um if if there's no real or perceived power imbalance then it's harassment. Correct. So it's just the two. Not that harassment isn't bad but bullying is like a different level. That's how I understand it. >> I was under the impression that bullying is about the repetition, the quality of repetition. But I >> can be repetition as well. >> Okay. >> Well, wouldn't it have to be repetitive for it to be considered harassment? I mean, just asking. I'm not sure. But legally, I would assume that it would have to be reoccurring for it to be considered harassment. Harassment, right? >> I mean, >> I guess I'm not an
084attorney. I don't know how it's going to legally be defined. I think harassment is happening more than once, >> right? Like reoccurring >> and ongoing. And I think of bullying it can happen more than once, but sometimes it's it's I don't know bully I think you said it well. They're after power for the most part. >> Yeah. >> And >> there's also a difference between just unkind mean behavior and behavior. >> Yes. Right. There's a difference between >> sometimes people will just be unkind, but it's not bullying. They're not targeting that power. >> Notice how she did this when she said unkind. >> Tilted her head back this way. >> I don't know. >> Is that more obvious? Okay. To be clear, this does not ever >> Thank you. I appreciate that. >> So, yeah.
085Oh, go ahead. >> Um, I'm looking at page um one >> on this under examples of bullying and disrespectful behavior include and I'm looking at the fourth bullet point. >> I would make a recommendation that we replace the word gender with sex. talk about title nine. Title nine uses the word sex. It is carefully defined. It's biological reality and does not um use the word gender. >> I realize we're not talking about title N brought up my only bullet point in this section. So yeah, I agree with you. >> Yes, I I also agree. >> Yeah. Anyone have any oppositions to that, David? >> I don't oppose it at all. Oh, I I took that as being people who say they're a different gender and they get >> that's what >> that's sexual orientation that's
086already covered. >> I I had someone ask me recently uh why are we still teaching that gender and sex are two different things and that's a whole can of worms in and of itself. So I agree. I think sex is very clearly defined. Gender is a nebulous philosophical concept. So I'm fine with replacing it if uh okay >> an email fourth bullet point on the first page. >> So replacing gender with sex. >> All right. Any other thoughts on 5362? I'm hearing nothing. We're going to move on to our last item on the agenda under discussion 5517 student anti-harassment. And this is where I saw uh the redundancy that was being mentioned earlier. Um I'm going to kick off with that because this might be uh what several people noted. Um it happens twice that
087I saw in the policy. uh the first time it happens is on the first page, third paragraph and it is the parenthetical that starts on the first line >> including and then there's some struck items but it does include sexual orientation. Uh I would recommend that we remove that parenthetical and the reason I would recommend that is because sexual orientation is not a subset of sexual traits and because sexual orientation is already included later on. Well, yeah, it's it's duplicating it already. >> Yeah. So, just remove that parenthetical there and remove the parenthetical. I believe it's on page two under bullying. It's one, two, three, four, five lines down in that first paragraph. It's the same parenthetical. So, we can just remove that as well because it's it's the same issue. And when when Neiola
088does these updates, sometimes our existing policy gets kind of smooshed together with the updates and you get those. >> They put it in their update, but we already had it in our policy >> because we had already preempted removing those those items. So yeah, we can remove both of those parentheticals. And I'll repeat that for you again, Lynn, because I just said a bunch of stuff. removing the parenthetical um in the third paragraph >> on page one and then in under >> on page two >> page two awesome >> and that was the redundancy I was talking that's what I got too >> and then any other thoughts on this policy before we move forward the members mbers of the committee or or Julane or Carl. I'm happy to hear from you guys. >> Julian's
089not part of it, but we listen to her. >> Well, there was a time when I wasn't part of the policy committee and I was very happy that people listened to me. So, um I would certainly >> show up at the main meetings without having >> that's how I feel. >> Okay. Um I have a couple of other notes on here. Um the first one is on page three. Uh oh. Patriot of the same policy. Uh it talks about Yeah, it's right. It's all the way at the top. It's the first two lines. Harassment also includes hate, quote unquote, hate speech directed at a student. I think we should just tighten that up to harassment also includes the use of language, etc., and just keep it going from there. Um, I think that is easier
090and it removes something that doesn't have any sort of legal definition. >> Yeah, there's kind of a >> Yeah. >> I don't know if anyone has any further >> I agree. >> Yeah. >> So striking everything from the quotation of hate speech all the way through >> to the hyphen or the >> Yeah. through the hyphen. >> Yeah. I'm assuming that this is we a separate policy from bullying because harassment goes to a different legal standard and that's why it's 13 pages, right? Because it's it really is specifically defined, >> right? >> For for legal purposes. >> Yeah. And most of most of that is the operation that you have to take. >> And then uh I heard uh general affirmation from the the committee on that. And then my last note is on page
091four, item J as uh a list of inappropriate boundaries. And I think we we looked at this actually maybe a month ago. Uh but there have been some developments in the world of public education since that time about concerns with uh teacher conduct with students. And I'm not sure this is this was just kind of a note I made on the way here today. Um, but I think that perhaps we should specify I I didn't see anything super specific here, but we should specify that all communications between students and teachers should be done uh through channels that uh are accessible for parental supervision. I know that's a really broad statement and it's something that we already kind of have as a standard in our district because really if a if a teacher is connecting with
092a student it should be through like Skyward emails really should be most of the time go on this >> say that again >> um staff students staff communication with students we have a policy that mentions this >> yes communication with students Absolutely. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> policy. >> Correct. >> And does it prohibit uh communication with staff and students that parents have no access to? >> Yes. >> We would have to pull it up. I I believe I believe um >> my recollection from about eight months ago when we worked now it's almost >> Can we confirm that >> that we we were Sam and I were really all over that especially with our attorney uh making sure we were clarified right now >> those connections. Okay, >> I got one here on Sam
093on inappropriate boundary invasions. Number 11, going to a student's phone for non-educated reasons? Yeah. >> Mean to tell me that a student in high in in our high school or grade school can't go to another student's home? >> This is a teacher. No, this is the teacher going to the student. >> Oh, the teacher >> going to the student's home. >> Well, I I got problems with that, too. Why can't a teacher go to a student? >> if they're invited by the parent, for sure, >> right? >> But but but then then either that's because of a parents friendship or a relation of some kind that's that's outside, >> right? But but what I'm what I what we're what we're trying to protect against in the policy is that um that unnoticed and unwanted connection.
094>> Well, it should be specifically stated that >> with without parental permission. >> Yeah, >> I think it is um >> where is it? >> J. So, so at the very top above um J1 it says inappropriate boundary invasions may include. So it it already couches that in as inappropriate bound boundary invasions. >> That's the title of that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Very good. I agree that >> I definitely I definitely see where you're coming from, Carl, because like obviously like what if your what if your kid goes to the high school and you are friends with the science teacher and you invite him over for a Packer game or whatever and now you're now like, "Oh no, I can't come over for the Packer game." I mean, there are there are lines of work
095where, you know, you're not allowed to do things, you know. I mean, some people if you go into various businesses, sometimes you can't accept food because it can be seen as a crime. >> Great. So, one of my son's uh best friends, right, happens to be his classroom teacher, his kid, right? Like, am I going to say no to a sleepover? Probably not. Like, you know, like we know the family. It's fine, you know? But but that but that again, that's not that's not inappropriate or, you know, unwanted, you know. >> So, Carl, you just want some clarification added to that? >> Well, no. I think the clarification is added in J. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I didn't look at J. >> It's a lot to look at. >> I know it is. >>
096And in service, this is these things are >> reiterated year to year, right? >> Yep. >> I'm just thinking about making sure people are reminded. >> Yep. as what staff staff meetings and state. >> Uh the last note I have uh in keeping with uh one of Gelain's notes on previous policies that we talked about is letter I on the page directly preceding that says unwelcome behavior or words directed as at an individual because of gender. Um, I think that we should replace the word gender there with sex just to make that clearer. >> Yeah, they're assuming that they're two the same thing. >> Yeah. >> Well, depends. >> They don't assume that they're the same thing. >> They don't assume. That's what I said. They don't assume that. >> Some some do assume that,
097some do not assume that. And until you have a very long, complicated, and frustrating conversation, you can't figure it out. So uh yeah >> gender refers to uh the way that you render words in in certain languages and it refers to philos philosophical concept developed in the 1950s >> word >> one of the two right um so yeah replacing the word gender with sex in item I and that was the only place that I saw And that's my last note on that. So any other thoughts on Neola policy singles? No. All right. We will move on to the next section of our agenda which is policy new major revisions. We don't have any. Then we will go forward to future agenda planning. Uh talked about that future planning. We already discussed that a little bit.
098Um compiling that list of policies, administrative guidelines and personal development regarding school counselors, mental health, things like that. Uh Tammy, you and me because you're on you're the chair of planning. We'll we'll discuss that and we'll follow up with you guys. If we can start um however you can help us with that, getting that a good list of policies and administrative guidelines that relate to those issues, uh that'll be a great way to move forward with that and get a head start on it. And then uh yeah, I I'll have Linda and Sarah meet up with uh maybe maybe eventually with some administrators from the schools about those bullying resources, but certainly have you guys meet up together in the near future to discuss that. any other future agenda items that people would like to
099see discussed right off the top of your head, you can always ask, you know, send an email, give me a call, whatever you'd like. All right. And then past action items. All of these have been completed except for the last bullet point that we have there. So, we're just going to be connecting with legal counsel eventually to talk about whether or not we have to name a specific official newspaper. Uh, so Jared, follow up on that. Um, you know, we'll talk about that next meeting. I I did uh follow up specifically again today to say to Brian like because Brian and I talked a lot about number of legal issues >> and we both know that this one's the one that we have to talk about >> and it just keeps falling to the bottom
100because of the other pressing nature of other things. And so I said though like listen tomorrow call me and we just specifically for X because I have one simple question and it's really easy. But maybe not because he needs to define it for me. Do we absolutely have to name a paper or not? Because that's all I want. That's all I really want to know. We have to legally name a paper as a school district or not. >> Oh, you're attorney. >> That's ex That's exactly what we're talking about. >> Then you have to define >> I saw that in the phrase have to. >> Then you're getting into a whole can. >> Well Well, let's talk about that. >> And that's as far as we've got. Let's talk about that >> and then next
101time we talk it's about this thing or that thing or this thing >> so I just like tomorrow we we need to wrap this one up. >> So then we'll move on to action items uh because that's the only one we have left from past action items for current action items. Uh Lynn, do you want mind reading what you have? >> You bet. Okay. So for uh policy 2462 advanced learning instruction in the first paragraph um remove social emotional and replace it with skills based and all policies in that first group um agenda item two or 3A um can go to first read in December. The 5530 student use or possession of intoxicants drugs or paraphernalia. We need to insert the verbiage from 5512 into 553 or 5530 at the beginning of the last paragraph.
102And then Dr. Burke is going to reach out to legal counsel regarding um 5530. And then all policies in in that group of the 5,000s to 9,000s can go to first read in December. Um we need to compile a list of uh policies, administrative guidelines, procedures, workplace expectations and professional professional development around student mental health for a deep dive discussion. Um t uh title n uh policy 2266, we can send that to first read uh during the December board meeting. Um Sarah uh is going to meet with Linda Oberbrunner as well as building principles and PPS staff uh regarding bullying resources. Um in policy 5362 the anti-bullying in the fourth bullet point we need to replace gender with sex. Um and then 5517 student anti-harassment. We need to remove the parentheticals in the third paragraph
103on page one as well as under bullying on page two. And then remove the words hate speech direct uh directed against a student at the top of page three. And then change the word gender to sex under letter I on page three. And then I can send that student anti-harassment to first three in December. So, I think we should um Sarah, you can talk to Renee or Brian about the 5530 and um connection to our handbook discussion. You don't need my help on that. So, why don't you um just make that connection and see what kind of verbs we need in there? >> Anything else that I miss? Did I miss anything? Uh, no, I don't think so. Uh, there was that uh staff student communications. I'll just I'll find that. I'll look it over
104and then if I need to bring it up uh at the next meeting, I'll I'll put that on the agenda. I can do that myself. Um, yeah. So, before we part, we should discuss the next meeting date. We don't currently have an updated uh meeting date. We can choose to either forego the month of January or we can have a standing meeting and see what gets put together in the interim. Yeah, I was going to say if we're going to start looking through these policies on mental health, we might want to have a standing meeting so that depending on how much we get done, we at least have a date set aside for it. >> Um I don't know. >> Just I want to remind everybody that um there's that 20 um 19th through the
10522nd >> um state convention uh and so that that eats up a good part of a week for administration uh and any board members who are going to that. So um just want to be mindful of that as to what do you want for uh a an agenda and and you know like let's try to do it before that >> or after that um in that month. So yeah, my schedule is always wide open, so anything works for me. I would really be looking for Sarah and Jared if you if you want to be present as well. No, Sarah, we're pulling you in. Uh >> um so whatever works best for you, Sarah, and then the other members of the committee. I'm usually free by 5:30. >> I'm going to the convention, so I'd really
106rather it not be that week. >> Oh, yeah. No, that's that's fine. Uh we can do it. Well, yeah. And Jared are going, too. So, >> we're not gonna do the week of the night. >> The four of us are gonna be besties. >> Yeah. >> Well, five of us. >> Oh, Lyn's going too. >> Nice. >> Are we doing 12th of January? >> That's it. >> Oh, the Monday. >> Oh, I didn't bring my my new plan that we're >> I was going to ask if the 12th is when we're going to have our general board meetings or if we're going to do it on the 26th. I guess the 26th would be the fourth of that month. >> Board meeting. I was looking at the crossover. Yeah. Okay. So, we'll do it on
107the 12th. >> 5:30. >> So, January 12th at 9:30. >> Yeah. And if that ends up overlapping with something else, you know, maybe we can move it to another date, but let us know. >> You know, maybe >> 15 minutes by car away. >> Yeah. But it's cheaper to pay my mileage than >> I know. >> Without any further ado, it sounds like we've got all of our ducks in a row there. Uh, so meeting ajourned. >> Perfect. Thanks guys. >> I do. I go in your office, I start sweating. I was like, will you turn that thing off? >> Three of these. Not only that, but I was >> that we purchased last month.