001stands nation under God, indivisible, justice for all. >> I'm Anthony >> here. >> Sammy here. >> David Hyson >> here. >> Lorie Hoffman >> here. >> Linda Overberrow >> here. >> Sam Owen >> here. >> Carl Schwarzy >> here. >> Dan Bolner >> here. Craig Hortman >> here. >> Thank you for that. So, uh, as is the practice, we don't offer public input during special board meetings. Uh, but you are always welcome to email the board. You can come to the next committee meeting to offer public input if that's on the agenda or you can also share your your perspective at the next board meeting given there's time to do so. All right, first order of business is our referendum survey result discussion. I will also preface this for the board. Um, please allow uh
002per school perceptions to provide their uh full presentation before we ask questions. All right. So, with that, we have Derek Gotautle, who's here with us in person, and then Scott Gerard, who is joining us virtually. Um, they're going to be going through the presentation of the material from our our uh fall survey of our community, um, a different referenda, and other questions. >> Yes. I'm gonna turn this directly over to Scott who is going to be able to share his screen and uh show you the PowerPoint presentation that we have come up with. >> Start. >> Are you all seeing the presentation? >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> All right. Wonderful. Well, thank you for having me and Derek tonight. Um looking forward to uh showing you the data here and and answering any questions you
003have after the report. So, without further ado, here we are uh to look at your community survey results. This is a little preview of the types of information you're going to see throughout the presentation. So, anything with that blue building uh is going to look mostly familiar. Uh it's a reminder of what was in your survey. We'll have survey and respondent information about who took your survey. Of course, we'll have the results and analysis. And then at the end, uh, as just mentioned, we'll have time for a wrap-up and questions. Reminder about who we are at school perceptions. We've been doing this work since 2002, and we've helped more than,300 school districts navigate the strategic planning and referendum planning process. [clears throat] Your survey had a November 17th deadline, so two weeks ago. Today we
004are at 1,916 respondents, which is good for a 13% response rate. Uh we feel good about that data. Uh it's into double digits on that response rate and nearly 2,000 people in your community wanted to tell you what they thought. So we're really happy to see that. Um the margin of error, which is simply a function of that number of respondents, is 2.28%. Uh it's a good number to keep in mind as we go through some of the results later on. Among your survey takers, 34% were 65 plus. Uh that is bigger than your general population of that age demographic, but that's what we like to see. Uh that group turns out to vote on election day. And they're also often the most uh least connected directly to the school district. And so it's really
005important you're hearing from them in this way through this survey. So we were happy to see that. We also had good representation from 35 to 44 and 45 to 54 year olds. Uh off in the parent ages uh solid group at the 55 to 64 year old range and then those two groups at the bottom are typically the smallest on our surveys. So no surprises there. 91% of your survey respondents have a primary residence in the district, which means if there were a referendum on the ballot, they could vote. 8% of your respondents said no, they do not have a primary residence in the district. 1% uh are not sure. We always have 1 to 2% who are not sure. That 8% that said no, uh those could be staff who live outside your boundaries.
006uh they could be open enrollment families. It's important to hear from them. They're represented in parts of the results you'll see tonight, but when we're looking at a potential referendum outcome, we have to filter to just those folks who would be able to vote uh in an election. So, that's why it's important to remember that >> about 76% of your respondents live in the city of Watertown. the rest uh are a mix of the other municipalities, but we did have respondents from every municipality within your school district boundaries. So, that's great to see. >> 17% of respondents are staff members of the district. 35% of respondents are parents in the district. And that leaves the remaining biggest group both on the survey and in your community, the non-parents, non- staff. Um, so we're pretty happy
007with the representation of all three of those subgroups. Here [clears throat] >> we asked, how would you like to receive school and district information? Um, for your non-parents, non-staff, again, that biggest group, the only option that surpassed 50% was a mailed newsletter. Uh, folks have increasingly liked holding something in their hands and receiving something when they're reading information. So, uh, not surprising to see based on some of the trends we've been seeing in our surveys, parents really like receiving information via email with 77% of parent respondents preferring that. So this is a reminder of the financial challenges that were presented in the survey, some of the funding challenges. And then we explained that the budget challenges are not unique to Watertown, how the district has been responding, uh, and that the budget deficit will grow.
008We explained that without an operational referendum, the district would need to make further budget reductions, resulting in larger classes and fewer programs for students. And we then asked, would you support the district pursuing a smaller operational referendum than the one voters rejected in April? This is broken down into those three subgroups. So, we've got staff in the dark blue. 79% said yes, they would support the district pursuing a smaller operational referendum. >> 70% of your parents in that lighter blue said yes. 46% of your non-parents, non- staff said yes. And while that's not quite 50%, it does uh pretty well outpace the percentage that said no at 33%. Uh the remaining percentage without, you know, numbers attached and everything. We're still not sure. Um so you did have majorities of your staff and parents saying
009yes and a plurality of your non-parents non-staff. So then we got a little more specific with three options to support funding options to support operations in the district. Option one would provide $3 million each year. >> Option two would provide $4.5 million each year and option three would provide $6 million each year. >> Then we asked which operational referendum amount would you support? How to read this slide? We'll look at the non-parents, non- staff to start. So that 32% in the darkest green is the number of percentage of respondents in that subgroup that would support a $6 million operational referendum. As we move to the right, the green changes, the color changes by the amount. So the second green box there, rectangle at 12%. Is another 12% said they would support 4 and a.5 million.
010We add those numbers together as the amount decreases and look for when it crosses that 50% threshold necessary for a supported referendum. As you can see, for your non-parents, non-staff crossing that threshold happens in the $3 million range. For your parents and staff, it happens in the $6 million range. The gray is the percentage that are not sure or need more information. And finally, the red is the percentage that would not support any referendum. So about a third of your non-parents, non- staff there in that final group. So then we have to take it a step further and do some waiting. >> So based on some census data, about 25% of your voting population on election day is going to look like is going to be that parent group. about 75% of your electorate on
011election day is going to be that non-parent non- staff group. So we have to weight the percentage support from those groups for what it would look like on election day. >> So in the equation next to the 6 million the 0.25 represents the 25% for parents and we multiply it by the amount of support parents showed for that amount in the survey. We then do the same with the 75 standing in for the 75% of non-parents non-staff multiplied by the support non-parents non-staff had in the survey. We add those numbers together and if a $6 million uh operational referendum were placed on the ballot today, we would predict a 40.3% election outcome. As we go down, show four and a half million. We update those percentages for what the support numbers were. What you can
012see there is 51.8%. >> While that is above 50%, it is within the margin of error, >> which means that it could fall on either side of 50%. >> Finally, at $3 million, what you see is 60.5%, which is of course above 50% and outside the margin of error. The other thing to consider with these numbers is obviously within the options uh the $6 million option did not include anything about consolidating schools. Four and a half million and three million did. That means that there is the potential to lose some parental support, I would say, at those lower dollar amounts. And so I would expect those numbers to maybe be slightly on the lower end uh of that margin of error, even below. So then we transitioned to some future facility planning. Uh and we
013outlined the district's challenges it faces, how much is needed in repairs over the next 20 years and the next five years along with some declining enrollment. [clears throat] And we asked folks if they had thoughts on the future facility planning. And so we summarized sort of the top few themes that showed up in comments on this section. The most often uh the most common comment was support for consolidating. So respondents uh who had a comment reflecting this theme suggested that reducing the number of buildings is a necessary and fiscally responsible decision given the declining enrollment. There were some comments that uh looked at the concerns about negative impacts of potential consolidation including students and staff, larger class sizes, staff reductions, and staff burnout. Some comments reflected financial considerations like wanting to understand the need for
014a capital referendum at all and expressed concerns about rising taxes. Uh they asked for transparency around the budget and finally some comments that expressed some opposition to consolidating uh concerns about creating large elementary schools opposition combining the middle and high school and valuing smaller neighborhood schools. Finally, we asked an overall satisfaction question. Uh on a scale of 0 to 10, how likely would you be to recommend the district to a friend or family member? As you can see here on the scale of zero to 10, overall Watertown score fell at a 5.31. So above that median, neutral of a five. Uh the biggest group was at that neutral number with 31% of respondents. >> So that's the presentation. Um I know it's a lot to take in, but Derek and I would be happy to
015take questions. your initial questions. >> Uh Lori, I think is first. >> Yeah. Um on our uh on our uh website here, [clears throat] you're you're missing some information that you gave up there. I took a picture of it. It's the um additional analysis operational referendum support. Uh the weighted amount for definitely yes and probably yes 6 million 4.5 and 3 million is not in our documentation only in your um only in your presentation. I'm sorry. Which file are you referenc [clears throat] that that screen? The top part is there. The bottom part is missing. >> Okay. So, the the PowerPoint presentation that's in your slide deck doesn't requesting and it's just missing that. >> Yeah, >> I will uh look at those. That's you know, obviously these reports are in progress. I'm not sure
016what happened when we emailed it to you, but we'll we'll get back. >> Okay, thanks. Just just >> Yeah, sure. >> Yeah, >> it's easy. >> The finished version of slide 16 does provide quite a lot of clarity as to the overall results of the survey. So, >> yeah. Yeah. Right. It's very important. >> Did you question? >> That's just com. Uh my question is I know there is room for other questions on the survey >> and I'm wondering where those are reflected. >> You were talking about the like comments, questions, suggestions, that stuff. So Scott did a little like brief thing about the com we those comments are all on the dashboard that we have. We can make comment analysis reports available to the district and the board if you would like but [clears
017throat] uh district administrators have access to all of those and with their permission we can give access to those as well. So when when was I given access? I don't have access to >> You don't have access to any of the Okay. No, we can give access the custodian >> other than the updates that Darren was, you know, giving me with here's how many respondents we've had. That's all I've had. >> Okay. Well, in that case, we can give access to all of that comment. We don't technically we don't make comments part of the like overall presentation of uh the budget because those are individual comments people are making. They're all anonymous but the more people have access to that the more that anonymity comes into question but certainly district administrators and board members can
018have access to our dashboard. I'd like to make a motion then to allow the board access to those comments, not just the analysis. >> I'll second that. >> Okay. There was a motion by attorney seconded by Lori to make uh board access to the comments. Any question on the motion? Roll call vote, please. Julene, >> yes. >> Cornier, >> yes. >> David Handyside, >> yes. >> Lorie Hoffman, >> yes. >> Linda Oberman, >> yes. >> Sam [clears throat] Owen, >> yes. >> Carl Schwares, >> yes. >> Dan, >> yes. >> Craig Horton, >> yes. The motion carries. Awesome. I will do that access right now. Jar, you do have access. I don't know like if we didn't send you like an invite but I can see that you got >> I just shared I just
019shared that access with Jared just now. >> Okay. Okay. Great. >> All right. I'll do that right now. >> And you'd be able to make that available through the previous login you gave us. >> Yes, exactly. >> You'll see. As soon as I click save changes, you'll get an emailiz. >> All right. Um any other questions? giggle. >> Is there anything in this that surprised either one of you? >> Uh, I'll go first, Scott. That's okay. [clears throat] >> I No. Uh, except in sort of pleasant ways. Like I was a little bit worried about the the possibility of, you know, a 13% response rate. We hope for higher, but given the way that uh school board and district election turnout goes, it was really important to us that that 65 plus section be as
020robust as it was. Uh that made us feel a great deal better about the reliability and validity of the the data. The I would highlight the thing that Scott said in the presentation. What makes this a little bit unusual when we're testing like different levels of operational funding support is the fact that the options change especially with school consolidation uh as you go down. And so our method of sort of adding those together is assume it is as though we're assuming that people everyone who would support a $6 million referendum would also obviously support $4.5 million referendum. And that assumption might be uh [clears throat] might be a little bit off, but given that the $3 million option had 60% support, I wouldn't imagine that that would pose predictive actual predictive consequences. >> Thank you.
021>> But otherwise, Scott, >> uh the only thing I would say is 60% for your lowest option is is really strong for what we've been seeing on our surveys right now. Um, I would say in a lot of cases we're seeing that lowest option where your middle option was sort of at the 5050 within the margin of error spot. So I think it it does show your community understands the need and is willing to support something. Um, so I was a little surprised at that number just given the trends we've been seeing I would say in our surveys this fall. >> Follow. So when you on the um presentation when you're talking about the slide that where you're summarizing what people said is there any way like the first one I mean are there any
022numbers to attach to that was that the dominant response >> what Scott was showing on that thing about the the the comment themes in that comment was in rank order of frequency. Okay. And so like those when we do report and Scott and I went through this uh earlier today when we qualitatively code all of those comments we are we are grouping them together in themes people won't say exactly the same thing from time to time but we're like okay this is about this is consolidation it's pro blah blah blah uh and so we have numbers to attach to those uh in that particular instance in fact I can tell you that uh 20% of respondent comments were were basically voiced some form of support for consolidating schools some fashion. >> Thank you. 20% of
023the people who made comments on that particular question. Um, in a borderline situation like having like pursuing the uh $4.5 million referendum, how realistic is it? are what has your experience been when it comes to school districts choosing to pursue like a 50/50 type of referendum? I'm going to respond and I'm going to let Scott respond who has worked on more of these than than I have. Prior to COVID, it was much more we would we would feel more comfortable telling uh school boards like you know some of those undecideds you can move them over like there's room to pull people over but like since then given the way that education politics has sort of been at the local level we've been advising boards basically to treat uh people who are sort of I will
024not support any referendum and I need more information as nos for their decision-m just not to count on any of that support. The reality of this situation is that starting now till the time that something gets put on the ballot, you have a ton of opportunities for listening sessions to help like get information out into the community to hear and assuage people's concerns. Uh like this is where this is for a lot of the people who responded the survey. This is the first time they are hearing about these needs with these numbers attached. And so there's time to move things. Whether or not that happens. I'm I'm like an optimist by nature, but it wouldn't be professionally wise for me to recommend it is what I would say. Scott, >> it's I think Derek, that
025was a really good answer. I my answer is probably less satisfactory because my answer is mostly it it depends. There's there's so much, right? So there's about uh 4 months till election day. So much can happen between now and then. Um that could turn some folks into support or could turn some folks into opposition. And and that's so unique by community. I would say what it is is risky, right? Because you have to then wait another seven months for another opportunity to ask. And obviously as as you all know any failure has a significant impact on a district in the conversation around funding. And so it it it certainly hasn't never happened that those get approved but it carries a lot of risk just because of how the calendar works out and the timing if
026that makes sense. >> Thank you. It's not not ideally what I wanted to hear, but I I think that there's definitely some really hard decisions that uh that this uh indicates we have to make, especially uh there's a a significant portion of the community that supports consolidating our school district. Uh, I don't know how far that goes and I think that it would be wise for us to have discussion about that so that we can kind of figure this out. I don't think there's a ton of time between now and when we have to approach public for referendum question, but we we do have a couple of weeks maybe. Okay. And we can talk about that in just a couple of minutes. Um that's actually item B on our agenda for tonight, which is to
027just kind of review the timeline. You know, when do you have to have to make a decision by what what times do we have some discussion points? And it also gives you some chances to make some discussion tonight around what you've seen kind of first breath uh and you know um put some input around first breath. Uh and then we'll get into that later. Any other questions that we might have for school perceptions before we move on to that? >> Um, I was wondering if they you have an operational referendum and then you're going to come back with a facility referendum later. Is there any advantage to any one of these three, particularly the last one, the $3 million one of having one of those operational ones pass that would help the next one pass?
028I'm gonna answer this and then I'm gonna give flip this over to Scott to see maybe is Scott Bas I mean to be perfectly blunt and realistic the thing that would help the facilities referendum pass is the lowest tax impact I mean that's like >> yeah people are going to be thinking about their overall tax burden so particularly if a future facilities referendum were going to also involve building closures or consolidation or that kind of thing in an effort to sort of lean things up than committing the district to a lower operational referendum stream would work hand inand glove with it is what I would say. Scott, >> yeah, I think the only consideration I would say there uh is probably the tax impact and the relationship between when you're going to ask for more.
029>> Thank you. So I I don't recall that we talked about this, but the three options that we put out there in the survey, >> I think in the ballpark for what other similarly situated districts are doing. >> There is it's really difficult. Again, I'll respond then pass Scott. It's really difficult to answer that question because districts vary so much in size and the scope of their need and how long they've gone without addressing certain things and what they've done in terms of teacher salaries and healthcare stuff. And so uh for it it just it varies so wildly. I like the the district that I'm most familiar with is the one that I live in and don't work with, which just passed like uh was it a $16.4 million annual operating referendum and is now
030considering uh $350 million operational referendums and is getting all the push back that you would expect from that that sort of uh tax impact. So we we see all kinds is the answer. Scott, we've been Oh, go ahead, Scott. >> I was gonna say I I agree with Derek that it's so unique to every community. The amounts you're seeking, I would say, are not >> out of line with a lot of what we're seeing. Certainly, what happens at those amounts varies greatly by district. And so, that's a lot harder to compare because there's so much years and years of things built into the impact of these amounts. for that. >> I would say two school districts u near our size of proximity that we're tracking on similar tracks with are uh like the Beaver Dam
031school district. Um right now they're a little ahead of us in that game, but that's because we jumped ahead with our last referendum. We had a five-year referendum that kind of held off some of these decisions where they jumped into these kinds of decisions earlier. Uh and then Fort Atkinson where they're still kind of right where we are. As a matter of fact, they're right now um doing what we did uh about a year and a half ago where we did a population study, you know, MD Roers to come in and and and you know, do some demography work for us and to get the information that we needed so that we can make some of these decisions moving forward. Um, and so those, you know, the three of us as districts have, you know,
032I've talked with those other superintendents and just talking with them and seeing where they are. Those are some of the comparables I use. So, if you want to kind of look at some of the things they represent history and where they're at or similar. >> Okay. >> Very different communities, but very similar in school community. this uh I know is it at all possible that when we see these themes support for consolidating referendum for the school district consolidating [clears throat] and opposition to consolidating. Is there any way for us to disagregate that data as far as how they how they uh leaned for the uh the referendum questions? >> Let me let me pass this off to Scott. We haven't I haven't done that on the back end. Like I'm sure it's possible with a
033data dump sort of, but I don't >> like an anonymizing things. I'm not positive that we could do that, you know. I'd have to think about the minations of that because we don't generally attach comments to individual respondents for the anonymity reasons. Um I can see what we can do. I I can't promise anything but I >> would be interesting to be like which so if I'm understanding the your thought process it's like well somebody's like well I'm not going to support any referendum but then they're also in favor of consolidating the district >> right >> it's not as it puts a board in a different kind of position about being like well if we make a concession on this point then maybe that person flips the is that >> well well for instance uh
034there are some folks that have expressed a concern about the larger elementary schools. Uh but then but then there's a disconnect somewhere that that costs money to be able to sustain that type of operation. And um what I'm fearful of is being able to make the decision that creates a situation of buyer's remorse after the fact when the district has to make those consolidation has to make those concessions. >> Um I don't know it's a difficult situation. I think I think one of the things that you're speaking to is, you know, um the the less amount we we do in [clears throat] an operational referendum, right, it almost makes the need for a capital referendum or consolidating capital referendum that amount to be larger, right? Um because I if you're consolidating three schools in that
035$3 million lot, >> Yeah. Um we're looking at a possible referendum to put an addition on the high school for middle school, right? Uh and so that's where we're we're at. Like you know what what is it that people want to see more of? Do they want to see more of an operating and stay where we're at or do they want to see more of a consolidation and and less of an operating? And and that's that's kind of the teeter totter that we're on right now and many school districts are on the teeter totter. And I guess part of my concern is have we I mean as a school district we haven't really messaged out the uh strong possibility of uh consolidating that much of the district to the public until now. And when there's
036more of that talk, uh, would that ever change somebody's perspective on how they would support a referendum moving forward? >> Yes, that would be fine. This is this is where I'm if it's okay. >> Um, and Scott, as usual, it might go up here. This is where I'm in danger of getting out over my skis a little bit, so I'm just going to preface it by that. But like yes, you're you're concerned about the right things, which is I mean school finance just in general is not well understood. In any [clears throat] community, a minority of people are really tuned into what's happening with the school, especially the financial aspects. There are lots of moving parts here. And again, this is very similar to other districts. People have strong opinions for good reasons about how
037much they would like to spend on their schools, but it's rare that people [clears throat] in general have the full picture of what making any of these wellfounded decisions will mean sort of in the long term. So, communication about what's going on, providing uh members of the public with the information they need, like full scope, allowing them to speak to you between now and the time that anything has to get put on the ballot. That is the game. That is the game that that will help the community make the best way forward. Again, I'm I'm not gonna continue to harp on my own citizenly experience in Wosa, but it has just been it's been a nightmare like watching like for paying attention [clears throat] for like 24 months to people being very correct about one
038particular aspect of this fact, but having [clears throat] no knowledge of the other side of things and having to have the same conversations over and over and like let's like You're right. You know, it $16.4 million a year is a lot of money. But here's what here's the other side of that. We don't have to pay it. But if we don't pay it, then here's what happens. Is this what we want? People will be like, "Well, no." And then we'll be like, "Okay, $16.4 million." And they're like, "Well, no." Then so like you keep having a decision to be like, "Well, let's keep all the elementary schools open, which is what has happened here." And so we'll pass a referendum that will make that, you know, the default option. And then people will come back
039and be like, why don't we just close an elementary school? So the the conversations just keep repeating that it seems to be part of the nature of school district governance. So there which is a depressing way to say that there isn't there isn't a way to get all the information out there in a way that will be equally useful and satisfying to every person in the district. It's just making it available, constantly directing people to uh the places where it lives and uh taking on board feedback and trying to respond to what folks want. But at the end of the day when a vote like on election day when a vote happens on either of the referendums that we're thinking about here the an operational or facilities referendum uh the community is going to make
040a decision and then a bunch of the community is going to be like wait what like after the fact which is going to be the most frustrating part of of all. >> Sorry Scott >> does did Scott want to chime in? Uh, I don't know that I have a ton to add other than I I to to the point you're making it and to what Derek said, no one is ever going to have all the information. Um, and it's going to be hard. Um, to reckon with that, I think given the complicated nature of your situation. Um, but it's kind of impossible to know at what threshold someone every individual is going to change their mind. you know, what threshold of information. Um, and a lot of folks a lot of folks may have no
041information even when they go into the ballot box on election day. Um, and so you just you can't know who's going to engage and who's not. So, you just have to do the best job you can at reaching out and rely on the best data and information that you have, I guess, is is >> my unsatisfactory answer probably. >> Just really quick question. >> Yeah. So you had said that 20% of respondents who added a comment >> on this particular >> Yeah. >> put support for consolidation. >> Their comment had something to do with community support for consolidation. >> So what was the percentage of opposition to consolidation? I'm looking uh scan. It's going to go um 6.5% of those comments. If we're t in raw numbers, that's 21 comments that we classified as in
042opposition to consolidating and uh got to go all the way back up here. Uh 66 comments for So, we're only talking about, you know, 1,900 people responded. Yeah. >> Uh we're talking about 66 comments for consolidation in 21. So it's a huge amount of like this is you know >> a very small subset of survey takers added. I mean >> yes don't comment. A lot of folks just don't comment and that's why we tend not to focus on those next to the data a lot of the time >> because like it looks like there's support for consolidation is number one but then it like the last three seem [clears throat] to be not in support of consolidation right because they're worried about the negative impacts of consolidation is the second one >> this is also
043like that yes that's correct that's a correct interpretation. These are um >> and I understand it's a very small portion of the 1900 >> but even more than that I think the the way to interpret the the way to interpret this data is that nobody on the survey a a small minority of survey takers are going to have like very definite opinions on this. You might you might like what what aggregating all these together allows you know us to show like the community in general is like okay I I think consolidation might be necessary here are my worries as we as we do this I am worried about like there are probably going to be some negative impacts and I don't like that uh [clears throat] financial considerations what does this all mean for my
044budget for the uh school district budget and like maybe maybe we shouldn't consolidate it's that will also be I think the tenor of the conversation between now and putting something on the ballot. The the comment that I wanted to make following up on Scott's last thing to your >> your point here is that I I think as the board thinks about engaging the community in these conversations and the community thinks about uh ultimately coming to a vote, there's we're talking about two different things, an operating referendum and a facilities referendum. And each one of those processes is going to have two halves. one in which a plan is formulated about here's how much we're going to put on the ballot and here's what it's going to do and as in this survey like maybe we're
045talking about three options but then when something is put on the ballot uh then it just becomes yes no to the community and it's a totally different conversation so like the dicey thing for the school board is like 4.5 or three million annually that's like I'm just using rough numbers of like a teacher salary and benefits roughly $100,000. That's like the value of 30 teachers or 45 teachers. And that's a real question that the board has to decide. But ultimately when something is put on the ballot it is x number of dollars or zero becomes the the question and that becomes and it just it changes the nature of the conversation that happens in the community and on both sides and then like what gets decided here with this operating thing will obviously affect the
046facilities planning thing. So as you're developing plans that all becomes its own sort of bag of snakes and then something gets on the ballot and it becomes again are we going to do this or not is the is the question that faces the community and those just I've just noticed that those processes have very different dynamics both in the community and on so it's just for what it's Um Der and Scott. So on on the slide um I believe it's uh 19. It's the scale of 0 to 10. >> Yes. >> District to a family or friend. That would be 1,900 plus [clears throat] people >> indicating on that. So that's a lot more data there that we should look at. It's exactly [clears throat] >> neutral. So that's a concern. I think if if
047we as a public are not wanting to recommend our own school district, it's so flat. You know, I mean, it's just there's people above and below. And I think that's more valuable to look at that we have a school district that is not desirable almost it looks. So would that be fair or not? Is that a fair thing to say just looking at that? That's how I read it >> among respondents that they have a >> um and I would yeah I would say when you're when 31% of the individuals respond as neutral that could just be a matter of them not not knowing or or virtues of the school district. I I'll say too, so we at school perceptions have done staff, parent, and student surveys as well. Uh, and we include this net
048promoter score slide on each of those. Uh, I was noting to Scott sort of offline earlier today that this really stands out. The difference between the community survey and the staff student parent survey obviously is that community survey involves people who are much less connected to the schools. That like that extremely unlikely to recommend number is much higher on this survey than it is on any of those other surveys. So what the way that I interpret that is essentially that the community members who do not have as strong a connection with the school who might be thinking about my my own mother here in the way that I hear about the schools that I attended growing up like might have friends who have grandkids now in the schools and stuff like that. are hearing things
049and then reporting that on the survey, which is not a way of discounting, it's a way of trying to put it into context a little bit that the negative perception is real. This process of as kind of nightmarish as it can be to like go to a community and see referendum is an opportunity to engage the community and [clears throat] communicate what is go what schools are like to invite them into schools to see what's going on is how I would say that. >> Yeah. I I think I think the way I read it is it's that we have to do much better work connecting with our community because when you look at the staff and parent surveys that net motor score is higher um when you bring in our community members right um that
050just means um they may not know of the work that we're doing here as much as those who are connected u and I certainly don't see a neutral score in the fives as negative. That's right. >> You know, we >> that score has a long way to go to go into the negatives. You know, four, three, two, one. Um, it's just very neutral, which is negative to people like us who want to see it very positive, right? But it is a neutral score. We tend to in in our normal in our ordinary like staff, student, parent survey items, we don't have a neutral. We basically like we provide four options, but it's five point scale. We take the neutral option out because if it's there, people will default to it if they don't tend to
051have an opinion. That's my interpretation of why the basically in almost every district that we surveyed, the neutral is the largest number. >> Okay. >> Period. So that's [clears throat] >> and it's only 28% of the community that are below five. So that's not horrible. >> I was getting worried. Well, I think given given the fact that the largest group was 65 and over and age group they are I think what Derek said they're they don't know. So the safe the default position on something like that is to stay neutral because you don't know. So, [clears throat and cough] you know, >> because when I first saw this, >> we need to do some Well, we do need to do some work, but that that's a given, but I wasn't as alarmed as I looked
052when I put it in the context of of how many people were didn't have kids in the school. >> Yeah. >> You know, and they would not they would not answer, >> right? You would comment on that. Um, I think the people that are the older, the larger group that don't have children in the school, if they hear things happening in the school where they're going in the right direction, like we're working hard on literacy and math and if they can hear that during this time before the vote, that makes a difference, doesn't it, to those people? Because I I know older people will think, what are they doing? How well are they doing? [clears throat] and uh everybody working hard at that point. >> Yes. So it it makes it kind of a difficult
053situation to look at uh where the community support ultimately is or a I mean you can say well the community doesn't support necessarily the entire community does not support a $6 million referendum. community does support at least a $3 million referendum. [clears throat] But if the community was I if we were able to uh communicate to some of the other additional individuals who are viewing our [clears throat] district as neutral um and share the good things about what's going on in our school district in a way that reaches them. Perhaps maybe they would support a $4.5 million referendum. I mean, I I'm trying to be optimistic with that, but uh I think there's a there's a lift there um for that $4.5 million refer unfortunately. >> So, before we transition into because those comments can
054lead us into discussion about where we want to go, >> right? Is there are there any last questions for school perceptions and or the data that they're bringing to us before we get into the next part of our agenda which is timeline and and maybe even having some conversation and certainly uh you know the gentleman from school perceptions can stay and you can continue to ask questions as we get into that discussion but are there any more about the the data that are here and they're they're speaking up tonight. I'm trying to get ahead of myself. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Just one last um uh follow up on your statement about grandparents. Yeah. Um the 65 and older category >> are how many of those are people who moved out here to retire and don't
055have family in the community versus somebody like me. I have my grandchildren in the community. I know how they're doing at school. I have almost a daily conversation about it. >> Right? Of course, I don't have children in the district anymore, >> but [clears throat] I have five grandchildren in the district. How many of those versus retirees with no connection to the community? >> We don't we [clears throat] we don't ask and we don't know because once we get that there's going to be grandparents are going to vary in terms of how much they are hearing about their kids experience in schools. Like I'm using my mom as an example talking about how Edison West High School is doing. She doesn't have grandparents there. She's just her friends have grand kids. Like there's no way
056to sort of like tease apart who is going to be getting what information at what level about the school once you get beyond a certain kind of thing. That's why we ask about parents and staff. Scott is I see making motions. I was just going to add to that voting behavior sort of among parents is more predictive. Um grandparents doesn't necessarily have as predictive of a um outcome for the reasons that Derek just expressed. So we don't disagregate by that because it's not really predictive. >> Thank you. >> Any other questions? All right. >> Thank you. >> So, I thank you for your uh your details in the survey and uh we look forward to interpreting more or looking at more of the other data and the feedback associated with >> I'm going to be
057here for just a second continuing to add people's access to this. You can by the way on through this dashboard you can filter by respondent types. So you can see that net promoter score change by type of respondent if you want to see how those numbers. >> Yeah. So just ask questions if you would like. >> I'll [clears throat] drive back to >> Scott. Thank you for attending tonight too and uh you can stay as long as you'd like. Uh but we're going to move to the second part of our agenda now talking about timeline and next steps discussion. >> Okay. Thank you all very much for having me. >> Good job. Thank you very much. All right. [clears throat] Who would like to start that conversation? >> Well, I I could certainly at least
058give a review of the timeline. Um I want you to um be aware that um by statute, right? Um we need to have a resolution um no later than I think it's the January the 21st, right? Um we have tried to hit our timeline which is to have a resolution uh ready to go and vote on December 15th. Um which gives tonight as a discussion point and fiscal on the 10th. If you don't have direction for me u by the end of fiscal on the 10th it will be very hard for me to um put a resolution together. Um, but if we do have uh direction on the 10th, I am fairly certain that we can get a resolution from the 15th in order. Okay. Uh, it's going to be a short turnaround, but I
059I think that we would be able to have that done. Um, if we don't have a resolution in order by the 15th, we would we could use the 15th as a discussion point. Um and then we would have to create another special board meeting between uh that time on the 15th and uh certainly at very latest I I believe it's the 21st of January, but I can double check real quickly here. Um as to when that resolution has to be done by state statute. Okay. Uh and so uh that's kind of our timeline uh for how much time you have left to make a decision if you want to be on the ballot by April. >> I think it would make the most sense to go with the shest path to success. Um if there's
060although I greatly appreciate the material that school perceptions has provided, the work that they've done for us, I think it's been great. Um, I do think that you're still going to be fighting an uphill battle no matter what. And I think that if we're talking about, well, there's chance and maybe we can engage people. I think that if you're proposing a $4.5 million referendum, you stand to lose more support that you gain in that scenario. I think it's going to be tough. Um, as Carl has talked about before, I think people are uh very fiscally conservative in Watertown. I think they're reluctant to um to make those sorts of increases. And so I think it would be most prudent for us to make a move that would have the highest chance of success without really
061a meaningful chance of failure. And so I think the $3 million referendum would be the decision for it. And I agree with with the what Sam said and I think it it goes better for the next referendum which is very important as well on facilities. So, >> could we review what that $3 million referendum would look like and what we'd have to do to fulfill it? >> Yeah, I mean, we've discussed, you know, um that a $3 million referendum, we would still look at closing three schools. >> Three. >> Yeah. >> Uh and consolidating the seventh and eighth grade to the high school. It's it's pretty much as if we um if we don't pass referendum at all. It just gives us a little bit of more time. If we don't pass a referendum at
062all, we're going to be out of money in two years. If [clears throat] we get $3 million, we'll be out of money in three or four years. It just gives us a little bit more time because what we do is instead of taking four four and a half to five five and a half million dollars a year out of our fund balance, we're now taking2 to $3 million a year out of our fund balance, but we're still going to run out of money, right? Even at 4.5 million, we're still going to be taking some money from our fund balance, but it will get us out that five years, right? um that we're looking at >> on page 13 of the school perceptions as well card. >> One challenge I have with that idea as you
063get down four years down the road, we're in the same situation again potentially that like drastic cuts need to happen. and we approach a community with a referendum when there's already one that's already there um as a school district. Uh that's not going to sit well with members of the public either. So, I'm hesitant, [clears throat] but I also I want to be realistic, too. I I I appreciate the sentiment to go for the or the sure thing. >> Mhm. I'm not a gambler. >> No, I get it. I get it. But I I also in the same sense can't say that going for a $4.5 million referendum would also turn off more votes than than you would gain because I don't know that. I think that it goes both ways very very solidly. Um
064every six years the dollar loses half of its value. And if we go 3 million now, it's going to be six million in six years than we would need. I say go higher because we got the best value for our buck. >> Tim, I'm not Yeah, I went to school for business finance. >> Yeah, >> it doesn't seem quite right. 36 years loses half its value. Well, I'm I'm dependent on other people's, you know, judgments that way. >> I contest that. I'd contest that. >> You would? >> Yes, I would. That it loses its value every 3 years. He said >> six >> every six years. That's 12 and a half%. Wait a minute. That's more than that. Yeah. >> But but nonetheless, you're what you're saying is that there's a a time value of
065money. >> Yeah. Yeah. It depreciates over time. That's 16% over 16% a year. That doesn't seem right. I I I contest that. I I would because our inflation rate right now is around 3%. All right. So, I didn't want to derail your comments. >> No, no, I Yeah, I'm not a math, >> but you're you're right in your thinking in my opinion. >> Yeah, right. >> Yeah, >> you're not wrong in your thinking. >> Yeah, I understand what Dan's saying, right? >> I I think it has merit, too. But looking at all this is exactly the way I see it. In my mind, I thought the four and a half is probably an outside chance. It may it may be something to go for, but if you can't get that, you're in worse trouble >>
066than getting the three and then being able to get the facilities one later. And uh because I I look at this and I see support for both in a way, but only at a certain level. So, and I understand what Perry's saying, too. you know, it's going to we're still going to be down the road you're going to be looking at this again. Except I'm not sure how much you're going to save by closing free schools, but you're going to save a lot. I with the rising cost the rising cost of everything, uh, education, uh, fuel, utilities, just like general labor. Regardless of whether or not we pass a $6 million referendum, there's going to be increasing needs in the future. >> I'm sure >> u [clears throat] it's just a matter of, you know,
067how the district is able to absorb that sustainably and and at some point I don't know how much of it is sustainable for the short term either. That's why I struggle. Yeah, >> it is. It's bad. It's not a good situation to be in. Great. Are we are we factoring in all the new uh housing developments and how many um youth will be moving in? Is that anywhere in our numbers? >> Not currently. >> Pardon me. Not current. No, >> I think I think the budget is based on what the needs that we're projecting are based on are based on >> current enrollment, not >> current and part of the rawers report that there's a short-term decline in our uh in our enrollment and at some point that'll stabilize. Then we'll see a modest increase
068over period of time as well um as as um older populations move out and make way for younger populations to become part of our community. But uh this doesn't I mean we're talking about five years here now on and and yes what a great thing that would be to be in a situation where all of a sudden we have um a increase in enrollments within a school district and then then the public perception of where we need to be might be completely different. Any other thoughts, comments, considerations? >> There isn't a chance we can go on a close session. Is there? >> No, not discussing this kind of information because that like blow my stack. [laughter] >> Yeah, that's not that's not legally. Yeah. Okay. >> Um what what are the thoughts? I mean it
069sounds like is the board among the board members here tonight. Um do we have a a feeling of worry would like to be on? I see some magic. >> So, so the 4.5 million makes more sense to me because you're you're [clears throat] only closing two schools, two elementary schools, which are increasingly empty. So, that makes sense based on the conversations I've had with people in the community. They're like, "Why are you maintaining these empty buildings?" Um, but the 3 million seems extreme and I was actually kind of surprised to see that come back as, you know, you're closing three elementary schools now. Now you have to have a shoehorn to get all those kids in there, right? Um, so it doesn't seem like the most s sensible option, but from what school perception has
070been telling us, it sounds like it's the option that public wants. I mean, I I hear what you're saying, but what there's a part of me part of me that's really extremely optimistic about our public that if you if you put it out there that, you know, the school district will um uh will support is willing to support a $4.5 million referendum five years and also lean on some of the individuals here that that do support the referendum, parents and teachers, that that they would be cheerleaders to support that initiative. Uh, and I I think that could be a net positive. As a community, we start to rally behind what it takes to support a strong school district. Um, that that's just my thought. I don't discount that group of people. I think that I
071do think that there is uh there is room for for that list. I don't know what that does in the future when it comes to a future facilities need uh and maintenance. That's one thing that I'm concerned about when it comes to operational referendum because long term you're pulling from the same group of taxpayers and if they they didn't get what they wanted for an operational referendum and then then you come around and you ask them uh for a a facilities maintenance referendum. they're much less likely to support that too, >> right? And they they've already been squeezed, you know, with the city taxes. >> Uh, and I think that was a a huge factor in this. >> Yeah. >> Uh, I I would say I agree with Sam. I think 3 million is the
072way to go just based on survey results if we uh paid for school perceptions to put it together and they're saying that the best option available to us to ensure that it passes would be the $3 million mark. I think it would be smart if we uh went with the 3 million mark, did everything we could to improve the services or the outcomes in our district throughout that three-year time span of that referendum. And then maybe we could go back to the community after that time span asking for um more of a a greater need because our results are showing that it's worth investing in. I'll say I'm not saying it's not now, but if the response we're getting right now, school perceptions is saying to uh to guarantee quote unquote, not not saying for
073sure, but a referendum that you should give a $3 million referendum to your community. I think that we should respect the time and effort that the community members that did participate in the survey, we should respect that feedback and we should give the $3 million referendum option on that. >> Okay, >> I have a follow-up question. Um, so say we go with the $3 million referendum option, right? Um like Tammy was alluding to in a couple of years um our our school district has a great rapport with the community which is which is a factor in here. You know that neutral I don't see that neutral as being all that great. Um >> but but say we improve that. Uh can we go back to the community and say okay we need to expand our
074programming we need to reduce our class sizes. you see us moving forward, we need some help. When can we go back to the community for and ask to do more improvements? >> Um, technically, uh, you're allowed two questions per year. >> So, we have a lot of options. >> We do have options. >> Okay. So, we can layer we can layer operational. >> Sure. Right. >> Sure. But but the perception um uh you know if it's if it's a situation where uh we approach the community and say you trust us with this now and give us a chance to to show you where we're going with this and the perception changes. there is an opportunity to grow to the community at a later time. >> And Craig, I thought about this very thing quite a
075bit today because we had his meeting and what Tammy said is right what I was thinking about because we told everybody this is just a survey and we want to know what you said and we're going to do what you said and if we don't do what they said then there's a trust factor there. So where where this is coming down seems to be on that three three and a half million thing and what Tammy said is so true I think for the for the future to make sure we have that trust and make sure we're making progress because we're starting that going take some years to get there and then we see that progress the community can see the pro progress and then we can maybe go back to that again. There's more reason
076to do that. If we don't do what the community said now, we're going to be suspect. >> Well, first of all, I don't recall that we ever said we would do what the community. Maybe I'm and I'm not saying we shouldn't. I just don't recall that that being said, but um >> right, a survey is advisory in nature. >> Well, it is advisory in nature. I it's a band-aid. I mean, it's a band-aid that limps us along for the period of years, but I don't remember the chart, all the details in the chart that Sarah had done for us, but I do know Jared when you were talking about it that it basically says in if we go with $3 million in X number of years, we're pretty much done. fun balance is drained and
077and you know so a but a couple of observations when I was talking with people about the survey number one school perceptions and and I was concerned about this when we did it was the length that how many words we had in there um we tried to explain everything we tried to give a forecast if you will give um the current situation But yeah, a lot of people say I'm not reading all that. That that's that's today's culture, you know, 144 characters and don't bother me anymore. Give me two and a half minute video and otherwise my my attention span is shock. Um, and so I think there were a lot of people that probably didn't read the detail in there because they're busy people and they thought, okay, they found and some of them
078said, took me forever to get to the questions. And I know that's by design. We were hoping that they would read it and but it's just human nature. People are busy and they're they're not going to read all that. So this is a question for you, Derek. And I think I mean I I think I already know the answer, but so 1900 people out of our district responded to the survey. Um, so trying to phrase this so that do you have a sense or any kind of evidence or pattern that you've seen with other that the 1900 people who filled that out actually turn into voters? >> I know that. Well, and that's why I ask if you have a sense. Um, I've worked with a lot of that kind of data where you try
079to track you try to you hit targeted universes and then you go and you compare the voter roles and you see whether or not >> or our data is anonymized. So, we don't ever So, we don't ever uh we don't ever actually go back to be like, did the actual people show up on voter rules on election day? The thing that that I'll repeat probably unsatisfactorily is that our survey results themselves are 94% accurate in terms of predicting like in terms of a yes no what's going to happen. So I don't know whether these specific people who fill out the survey turn into voters but in terms of its representativeness of the community it tends to be pretty good. Scott, can I what you >> That's exactly what I was going to say. >> Well,
080if you have a margin of error of less 3%, that's pretty, you know, a very good margin of error. So, >> and that tells me >> that's not us to be clear. It's just 1900 survey respondents divided by village or the like in a function how many surve So, [clears throat] >> so uh I'll just be honest, I'm disappointed. Um, and it makes me, you know, question whether I understand the community where the community is. I know that I had a number of people say to me, "Do you really need the money?" And they knew that I'm I'm very conservative about those things. And you know, there's they didn't question where I was coming from. And I said, 'If you look at the numbers, we do. We're making cuts. We've made cuts. We have more
081cuts we're making in the future. We are talking about, you know, consolidation of buildings and all the rest of that. Um, I think that Derek has incredibly accurate that school finance has become so complicated that the average person has no idea how to unravel it. and they get bits and pieces, they get perceptions, they get all this stuff and and it's very and then then they don't trust people making decisions and they don't trust the process. And as a result of that, um then that is human nature. When you don't trust like that, your your default reaction is no, I'm not going to give you a referendum. I'm not I'm going to vote no. I mean, that's we see that. I've seen that for years in different situations. And so, um, I I I'll be
082honest. I lean towards the 4.5, but I'm nervous about it, you know, because I don't think you can say that community didn't say 4.5. I think you you you build a case of over 51, it's 51.8% or something like that. Um I don't think you can categorically say they gave us a mandate for six for for three. >> So >> I do agree with that. >> Yeah, I feel the same way that the lady does. >> 4.5 is going to get us a little further than where three is. And >> yes, but three >> we're closing three schools at 4.5. >> I know at 3 point at three 3 million and we're only closing two at 4.5. Right. >> I would agree with you. >> I'm not for closing schools. I don't like the idea
083of closing schools. >> Carl, I completely agree with you. My concern, however, is that there is in the $4.5 million there is like it's there's concern. School perception said there's concern with putting that on the ballot, right? >> And while three thou 3 million is nowhere near what we need, it's substantially more than zero if we put 4.5 million on the ballot and we cannot get it to cross the line in the ballot box. >> Well, I'll be honest with you, Tammy. I'm a gambler. >> [laughter] >> And I'll gamble on that. I'll gamble at on. You don't have to applause me. I'm just another guy. Sam. Yeah. So, um I guess kind of in response to I think that Julane kind of summarized a lot of the thoughts there very well, very articulately. I
084think that the main issue is that when we vote for what we're going to put on the ballot, we are not voting to pass that measure. We are voting to have other people vote on it. The main issue that I see is we're looking at voting [clears throat] to kind of see what the outcome is and maybe be okay with no passage whatsoever or we're voting for something where we really kind of know what the outcome's going to be. I think that's what it comes down to at the end of the day. Um, I know that 3 million is a lot tougher than 4.5, but I don't think that you're looking at 4.5 if you're voting to put that on the ballot. I think you're really, you have a very strong possibility of looking at
085nothing. I think that if we're going to move in that direction, we need to be fully aware, every one of us, that we might be looking at zero dollars, not 4.5 million. If we vote for three million, we're looking at $3 million. End of story. and potential to have a few years later maybe something. >> Yes, I I I guess I Sam I appreciate trying to u go gravitate towards the sure a potentially more of a sure thing. Where I struggle a lot is uh we made $1.2 $2 million worth of cuts or last year and we're still going to make 300,000 worth of cuts perly. Uh that that's felt that's felt every day in the classroom. That's felt uh by parents um our staff. they feel that. Um, and I I feel that, you
086know, asking another one and a half million dollars to, you know, we're going to have to cut that over a period of time as well. That's also going to going to be felt in a in an early tough time. And [clears throat] I I'm a firm believer that um you do reach the point of diminishing your turns really quickly. I I would I would almost say that we're there. Um we would like to try to be able to get to a better spot as a school district. reducing taking away more resources doesn't always get us to where we need to go. I'm I I'm uh I'd like to echo Julian's comments that that I I really I'm really hesitant about it because I I'm not I'm not sure. But I do have I do have
087faith in our community. I do have faith in um being able to communicate that out to our community. Uh I'm petrified in in the possibility of failure, [clears throat] >> but uh I am an optimist at heart and uh I guess I'll leave it at um I think with the opportunity to build trust to build um academic excellence. Uh we can come back. We can do this three million because this is literally this is what they said they want, right? But I think that it gives us a little breathing room. It gives us a little time to be able to make those changes that the public wants. It also helps them recover financially from >> The last four years. Yes. Um and and also the increase in the taxes from the city. The taxes got
088the first the the city got the first bite at the apple from the taxpayer before we did. Right. And so they are still reeling from those increased property taxes. And then here we come and we're like we need money too. And they're like no no we're done. you know, >> right? So, >> I think that um we need to take a breath and do this three million, but I am not for all like going whole making those all of those cuts right away. I think we need to take a measured approach >> um and shoot for the the 4.5 million plan that people were kind of waffling on, right? It is about trust when it like Julian says, you know, at the end of the day, it's about trust. We knocked ourselves out going out
089to the community and and trying to explain all of this in a whirlwind amount of time, right? And I felt it wasn't very it wasn't enough time to explain all of that. Like you you said, you have to have those conversations where you explain everything and then they come back to you and they're like, "Well, what about this?" Right? This is not easy. This is not an easy financial picture to understand, right? Um, you need time to, you know, to have those conversations back and forth where people digest what's going on and we didn't have that. Um, and so I think going for the sure three million is or mostly is um is a is a reasonable approach, but not quitting on this. just coming back and having those conversations and seeing if there's a
090a a willingness from the public to support a school that is is improving its its academics and its connection to parents. Um I I think there's value in in a measured approach that way. I I would say um I'm cautious about it because [clears throat] well well I know that your perspective is optimistic or I should say well intentioned. Um, some people may view that as shortsighted in the in the uh sense that if we're if we know we need more money, we're not asking for the appropriate amount of money uh in a referendum. Some people would then turn around and and and judge us for that, saying, you know what, why didn't you ask us that was being disingenuous? you know, because you know sure pull and well that you're going to come back
091at us with uh a potential ask in the future. I just don't want to start there. Uh that that that's where I struggle. I also would remind uh the board that we're coming off of a $7 million reoccurring referendum. Uh we're already approaching the public with a much smaller ask of a $4.5 million nonreoccurring referendum. We've listened to some of the concerns of the public that have already been voiced when it comes to their lack of support when it comes to their reoccurring referendum. Uh we also look at this particular uh survey and they also indicate that they would be willing to support a lesser dollar amount. I do think that the uh the 4 and a.5 million is a is a sweet spot, but I [clears throat] I just don't know. Go ahead, Carol.
092>> All you're doing is kicking the can down the road. >> Well, every single option is kicking the can down the road. Really? Like you're really kicking the can down the road here. >> I don't like the idea of closing three schools. >> But you're not the person who makes that decision. The public is. And >> that's very true. Sam, >> what will you do to sway public opinion for a $4.5 million referendum? >> What'll I'll do? >> Yeah. >> Tell them that they we need it. >> Basically, we need it. Do you think that will change the outcome enough to >> I'm I'm I'm gambling on it that that the voters that go along with it. >> What would if we were to do option one which is the 3 million we know moving
093the seventh and eighth grade to the high school. What expended expenditure would be needed to make the seventh and eighth grade in that safe separate level? So, um, the question is is how how are we going to do it, right? >> Well, how much more money would be needed if it's the three million and you do the seventh and eighth grades? >> So, um, we we're going to look at the possibility of spending up to $1 million this summer to make that building ready should we need it. remember that some of the the switches that we're going to make to the building over this summer that don't get us up to that one million um are to help general flow as it is, right? Um we do need to start making some investment in our
094buildings and that's what we have um fund 46 for to to help us make some of those investments in our buildings. Um, and we haven't been doing that and we need to start looking at what that looks like. And there are some definite performance improvements through facilities changes that we can make in the summer just for the high school. But along with that bid list that we're putting together are some ad alternates that should in April um what we ask for either doesn't pass or it's at a threshold where we we are really seriously contemplating seventh and eighth grade going up. Um we're we're getting prepared for that, right? Uh and so I don't have the final numbers on that. I know that we're we're bidding that out. Um, but that would be just getting
095us functionally uh there. There's a difference between functionally there and how how our parents, how our students would want and our teachers would want to see us operating a building with instead of,00 students, right? Um because there's a difference between shoehorning and making it feel like we we can do that. Um and we we talk about like if we go uh for uh a $3 million referendum, right, immediately moving seventh and eighth grade up to the high school is an option. But when you're also uh closing elementary schools, at some point in time you have to talk about what's the best option for sixth grade and do we put an addition on to the high school or not. Um so but programmatically those staff that we share uh we get the most efficiencies out, right?
096Um just today we were looking at different models of schedules and the efficiencies that they can bring. Uh and uh you know there's going to be some changes to that. Class sizes may be dramatically going up. You know, if we're talking about a $3 million ask versus a a $4.5 million ask, uh you heard Mr. Gotautle kind of say his thoughts about if you want to equate that to teachers, this is what it looks like. Well, if you want to equate that to teachers and say this is what it looks like, and you want to divide that through the student population, that'll tell you where our class sizes will go up. And and I will tell you that um at anything less than that 4.5 million, we're going to be coming back to you and
097saying, "Hey, our class- size policy, we may we may to need need to look at that and do some restructuring of that policy um in order to fit into the budget that we have available to us." And those are just things that I'm sharing with you. You know, [clears throat] I I shared with the public um and not with shame at all, what we need to continue to run this district, [clears throat] all schools available with the staffing we had available, right? That was 7 million recurring. Um and and that's what I share, right? I I I deal in the facts. I don't deal in what might happen, what might not happen. I I just have to give people the facts. at a at a $4.5 million referendum or a $3 million referendum. God forbid
098we don't pass a referendum. If we don't pass a referendum in April, we got one more year before we're out of money. We got one more chance at bat to go back to our public and say we really need something or we're going to have to make severe cuts uh to the point of getting us out and that those cuts will only get us out another two or three years. We'll still gonna we're still going to be coming back and asking at the current rate of funding from the state. If things change from state funding for formula perspective, then all things could be different. But under today's current facts, that's where we are. And and so if no referendum passes, I'm going to be coming to you with a plan that says 2.5ish million next
099year and another 2.5 after that to get to the four and a half billion. Yeah, if you're at three million, I'm going to say we need to cut 1.7 more. If you go to 4.5, I'm saying let's cut those $300,000 and let's hold off on any other cuts to see where we land. Right? You go to the six million, I'm going to say let's just leave it for now. Let's determine in two or three years we need to close the building. But remember, we kept that as an option as we may still have to make facility changes. So, those are the different pathways we're on. What you need to do is find a compromise somewhere that works for the most of our community. >> Uh, two more comments and then we're going to have to
100try to wrap things up here. Sim. >> Yeah, I uh I would still say that I think the best solution is we don't have to make every single cut immediately following a successful passage of a $3 million referendum. I think it would be wise to pass 3 million and circle back. My initial proposal when I talked about 3 million was uh actually to do a shorter timeline so that you would circle back around in a shorter period of time and talk to the public and see what has changed in in the interim. So, I I would actually still stand on that exact same thing. I think Lori articulated it well. >> Julie, >> well, I think one thing I mean, I don't know if I just didn't hear it or process it when I heard
101it, but when we talk about moving seventh and eighth grade to the high school, that reconfigures how we view middle school versus how we how we're configuring that whole thing. I got to believe that there are going to be people that have children in those age groups in those classes that are going to have very strong opinions about what happens particularly to sixth grade that they now under this plan they now become part of an elementary program occurrence. So I have kids at that >> seventh and eighth grade would be junior high model not >> middle school but and we haven't talked much about that but that's a that's not something that we should just ignore and I'm not saying we're ignoring it but probably merits a little more discussion than what we've had. >>
102We also haven't talked a lot about um what it would do to graduation requirements. >> Yeah. >> Even for our high schools because we would be we would be cutting programs. It's not just closing buildings. It would be cutting some poor rating too. So I will I will conclude the discussion by a couple of questions the board. Uh the I'm I'm seeing a a general split at this point on where where to go with this particular decision. I think it'd probably be wise to sleep on it. uh and come back uh reconvene it at a later time to whether it's at the next board meeting or um potentially I would say at fiscal on the 10th um have a meeting after fiscal. >> No, what I'm saying is uh we should have this listed as
103a discussion point at fiscal on 10. >> Okay. Um, and you know, see if we can get as many of of you attending as possible and and then >> we would recommend we would double notice it >> for for fiscal and board. >> Okay. So that if you guys wanted to make a decision, you could. >> Okay. Okay. >> That's the only way we can stay on your timeline. >> Well, that's the only way you can stay on the timeline that you guys put forward to the 15th. It's not my timeline, but um and I did when I walked out of the room, I did double check uh it's the 27th that we have to have a resolution passed by 27th of January. Uh and so um we we again we do have time. I
104would just rather use January to be out there talking with people about the ask versus still determining what the ask is. >> Absolutely. And and to that point, I don't even know what more information I can really even give you between now and the 10th or the 15th or even January 27th. If there is something more that you need for information for either from either school perceptions or our admin team, you know, I I'm happy to entertain those discussion points right now or um via email. uh if you have a if you have a you know a request for some more information but I think you guys know where we are. We've been talking heavily about this for um some months uh and we've had a number of different meetings uh whether it was around
105facilities or around our budget uh and future budget pro uh prognations. Um and um I don't [clears throat] know what else I can do for you. I know this is a hard decision. You're not every board or most boards are committing nowadays in the state of Wisconsin. Um, but this is it's one of your biggest and main functions and I'm here to support that with any information I can give you. just want to make sure that you you understand the facts and and and I and I do have to say like the the more support we have from the community, the easier it is to back off on on making budgetary expenditure restraints. The less resources we have, I'm going to tell you, you don't have choices to hold off. You you just don't. And
106I need to say that to you because if I don't and we run out of money, you're gonna be looking at me and saying, "What happened?" Right? I just need to tell you that that we don't have the resources. We have to make the restraints. And I showed that to you this last year. I said, you know, uh we talked about cutting 500,000. Nothing passed. We have to get deeper and quicker. And that helped get us out an extra year, right? I can help get you another at bat, but I have to make the cuts if if we don't have the resources committed. All right. Um, the is the board in go to Should I do a poll? Uh, let's do a poll. Uh for those in favor of a December 10th meeting at fiscal
107for further discussion, raise their hand. >> All right. Sex meeting on this. >> Is there anything any more information that um would be would be beneficial to provide? >> I don't think it's more information. I think we just have to individually wrestle through what we know and where [clears throat] we want to try to land. So is it is it three school coverage too? I'm saying sure has to go as well >> in a $3 million model. >> Yeah. >> It's either that or we would have to cut more staffing. >> We we [clears throat] haven't said >> we we've discussed three schools versus two schools. Correct. Yeah, that's why I asked the question. >> Yeah. Yeah. The name of I I was just going with you named a school. A school. Yes. >> Yeah.
108>> Three or two. >> Or if you guys tell me no, we're going to try to keep as many buildings open. I'm I'm we're going to have uh a lot fewer staff in those buildings, which means class sizes will go up. If we consolidate buildings, we can keep class sizes down a little bit. Um and we don't have to calculate that because we get some of the money from um not having the expenditures of the building. >> But then the operational referend or not the operational but the capital or facilities referendum it's going to have to address some of the needs if we keep these schools open. Those buildings need attention. >> Absolutely. >> I was in one of them. >> Well, I've lost don't say which one. >> No, I lost I've lost track
109of when I was there. It was in the last couple of weeks and I just asked to see a restroom and it needs attention. >> I mean, it it definitely needs attention. >> Yes. >> And it's not because maintenance isn't doing their job. You can only do so much with what you have. So, we would have to have a robust facilities referendum to address some of the things, especially if you were going to talk about keeping the schools open. >> Makes no sense. Was there any other comments? >> All right. Is there a motion to adjourn? >> So move. >> I'll second. >> Moved by Sam. Second by >> T. All those in favor. >> Opposed. stand a sorry Got some. Oh.