11/04/2025 Educational Services Committee Meeting

001from >> morning. >> Good morning everybody. It's 7:30 and this is the November 4th meeting of ed services and we are calling this meeting to order and we have no people who would engage in public comment so we can move right to our first agenda item. Do we need to move any? >> I purposely planned it this way today so we don't need to move any. >> Very good. Very good. Okay. So, we're going to go right to uh agenda item A, the discussion of the course proposals and course book updates. And I have kind of a general question for every presenter. Um, [clears throat] if you could explain the acronyms, that would be very helpful. And also, would we need to hire somebody to fill if it's a new position, you know, would we

002have to uh hire someone in the department in order to fill all of the uh the courses? So, um who we starting with, Jenny? >> Good. Thank you. Um and I appreciate your comments and we'll make sure that we address those pieces. I guess I would direct everyone's attention to uh just sort of the overview um the overview um guide that uh we have put together for the high school course book updates. Um these are the proposed changes and we'll just kind of work right through this document and then I will switch to uh the documents that we're discussing as we're sharing them. Um, as you can see, uh, in the past, um, we usually bring our new course proposals to the November meeting to have them approved by the full board at the end

003of November. And then that works in the high school, uh, rhythm to get the course book updated and then they start enrollment procedures in January. And so that's why we're bringing this to you today with the goal of having a discussion about these course proposals um, and what the ed services team or committee feels comfortable with. we would move forward to the November board meeting for full board approval. And then that way the high school has uh the ability to update the course book and then start their course uh proposals or their course uh enrollment in January for the following school year. And you can see this document right here. It's just an overview of what we're um proposing today. Um the first department is the English department and you can see that they have

004no um proposed changes at this time. um the math department. Um Dana Wagner is here and I'll introduce our staff as we go through. Dana is the chair of the math department at the high school. Uh Dana did come to us back in April to share a bit more about what their uh proposal could potentially be. Um just to foreshadow that. Um and I will share with you that why, what, and how from the May Ed services. As you can see, the department did an analysis of the standards that they were teaching um in their typical course sequence. Um within that, they acknowledged that the new math uh curriculum is more rigorous um and that there's some overlap between the standards and advanced algebra and pre-calculus and that some of the third-year math credits are

005not as rigorous in supporting students for uh college and career. So, they worked through a process to come with the proposal that they have today. Their goal was to make sure that that third credit was high um a high level of rigor. You're going to hear that word a lot this morning. Um and that we were providing options for [clears throat] students for what they wanted for their future or college future career or college endeavors. Um and so what you will see here is the formal uh course proposal. Um what the math department is um proposing that we do is eliminate um a course called elementary algebra. Um math students at the high school need three credits of math to graduate. Elementary algebra in the past had been offered as a dual credit course through

006Madison College. However, we're no longer able to do that. Um also analysis of the data showed that that course was not as rigorous um and students were not making as much growth as we would like to see. And so they're proposing that we remove that and that we revise our advanced algebra course. Advanced algebra is often the third credit that students are taking in the department. And what they're proposing is that students, all students would take the first trimester of advanced algebra, algebra 1, and then at that point they would choose between taking a second trimester of advanced algebra 2 with functions or advanced algebra 2 with stats. um and they have spent a lot of time analyzing where the different standards would be taught um and how we would support all students to be

007um prepared to be in that rigorous course as well. Dana, I will turn it over to you with that introduction. [snorts] >> Um so the way that the Wisconsin state standards are organized is that there are first twoear standards. Um the first two year standards are covered in algebra and geometry. All students are taking algebra and geometry at the high school. So they all get the required first two-year standards. Then the rest of the standards um the rest of the high school math standards need to be offered in a course but don't need to be taken by all students if that makes sense. So we have analyzed all the standards and that all the basically third and fourth year standards are organized within one of those options either advanced algebra 2 with functions or advanced

008algebra 2 with stats. And then we also are being mindful of what we call the course um because of um what's that automatic admission? Oh, Wisconsin direct. >> Direct admin. Yes. Um because we want to make sure that the students taking these courses are also eligible for direct admit. >> Um they've also worked with the special ed department, the Yale department and >> and CISA to ensure that um they are ready for all students in those courses. and then also the counseling department so that when students go to enroll um they understand what their options are when they're working with their counselor for that. >> And we really want to make it that it's not that one or the other is the easier class. They're both rigorous. Um and [snorts] really it's just like what

009is your interest? Choose the class based on your interest, not how easy um you think it's going to be. Well, that would have scared us English majors. [laughter] >> Okay, thank you. Any questions? >> And Dan, to address your question about staffing, um, each one of these proposals would not affect staffing at this time. I know they did an analysis of that. >> Um, so there wouldn't need be a need for an additional math teacher in the department to be able to staff this. Um, there would be some requests for curriculum development time over the summer so that they're prepared uh for the start of the 26 27th school year. Um, and I see here it's about $2,000 worth of curriculum development time for them to do that. And they would still be using the

010open up curriculum that we adopted. Um, just deciding between those two trimesters which is taught in which trimester. >> Very good. Any questions for Dana? >> No. >> I feel like as we move through each one of these, if I can get a sense from the ed services committee about would you like us to propose this at the full board meeting in November? Um, at this time, is that something that we're comfortable or there additional questions or comments about that at this time? >> I think I think that's fine. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I have a quick question. Go ahead, Craig. I'm assuming that's you. >> Yeah, that's me. >> There you are. >> Um, okay. So, so we talk a lot about um rigorous math courses and making sure that our

011students are are doing well and being challenged in the upper levels, the advanced levels. But what about the remedial courses that bring bring these students along who who have been lost in math? What are we doing for them? Um yes, part of the reason we would have everyone take the same algebra 1 or advanced algebra one course is um we will be frontloading some of the topics. Um so that they um we have noticed that open up jumps right into some difficult topics. we will be practicing some of those skills to prepare them to be successful in the rest of the course. Um those currently aren't there. Um, but like things we notice from algebra that they need more practice on like solving an equation, solving an inequality, we would be supplementing some practice problems

012um more so than what's there at the moment to make sure that everyone can be successful in the course. That's part of what the summer work would be, kind of figuring out where the gaps are and what we need to um what we need to do to support those gaps. >> Okay, Craig, >> we lost it. >> No, he's muted. >> No, I'm here. I It makes sense. But I I'm I mean when we're in the the bottom 9% of the state when it comes to math proficiency, I I don't know if we're doing enough in in those particular areas for focus. >> I agree. Um, but what we found with the elementary algebra course is it's not just students who need um who need the support in that class. Um, I think I used

013to teach the class with about 18 students and now there are 60 plus enrolled. um and that they literally are sitting in my advanced algebra courses saying I'm going to fail this class so that they let me take this other one even though I know they have the potential to pass um the course that they are appropriately taking. Um so we will still be monitoring um with the help of our school psychologist. he he does a lot of the monitoring of like who's in the bottom percentages. Um and we do have some form of math interventions. We can definitely um look at different options for like an intervention piece um to support those students that are uh not making the growth we're hoping that they should. >> [cough and clears throat] >> I don't think

014that keeping the elementary course is doing what doing justice to those students that are still not meeting benchmark. And I do think that to your point about um challenges in overall math scores, I think by increasing the rigor and increasing the opportunity for students to challenge themselves, it will support overall growth in the district and support that data point. Um, and I think that's why it's really important for us to ensure that we're working with special education teachers as well as um our EEL teachers to ensure that the kids have the right supports there. And Dana mentioned uh intervention pieces where if there are skill deficits for students um that we're working with [laughter] them directly on those um so that they are ready and able to take those courses. Well, that and currently I

015I know that at least one of the elementary algebra courses is being supported. Uh I feel like more than one is being supported with a special education teacher and the EL teacher. Do you know how many? >> Um I know that fourth hour has both of those supports in the same hour with the math teacher in there. So, we would be able to if that class is no longer offered, we'd be able to support an advanced algebra class and we have supported um I co- taught an advanced algebra class last year. So, we would be able to get those teachers into the advanced algebra classes for support as well. >> Sam, >> yeah. So, as a followup to what Craig's asking about, I [clears throat] definitely have similar concerns. Um, and I think that the

016feedback that you guys gave to Craig's question was great. I totally agree with your point, Jenny, that uh increasing rigor is going to support and uplift uh everything all all students overall. Um, Noah Webster said that students kind of lower themselves to the challenge that you give them. So, you have to make sure that the standard is high. So, I think this is definitely the right move to make. Um, Craig, I think that maybe a good move forward with some of the concerns that you and I have would be uh taking a closer look, however you and I can do so, taking a closer look at exactly where some of these uh issues or roadblocks are coming in for the students because I remember uh when we went to the school board of academic excellence

017uh [clears throat] board retreat, we talked quite a bit about mathematics and how to, you know, resolve some of these issues. And one of the key points was that unlike with reading where you can incorporate earlier reading principles into later lessons, mathematics, it really is a much firmer barrier. So maybe you and me can talk to Dan about getting something on a future agenda item for looking at that. Uh it that's a pretty broad idea. Obviously, I don't have a lot of details there just yet, but that might be the best >> uh to form a subcommittee of some sort to discuss. Well, I mean, obviously, um I would have to lean on our administration a little bit so that they can provide some better understanding of >> Yeah. >> where we falling short. So,

018I I'm I'm not sure what that looks like, but we'll have to explore that at a later time. Yeah, I would think asking them about that, but first and foremost, we probably have [clears throat] to talk about it at a committee meeting before we made any like formal action in that way. But yeah, that's that's my thought. I appreciate you bringing up the topic. >> Linda, >> I think one of the things that might where that might be addressed is in our um presentation for letter B on bridges. I think isn't Jenny, I'm going to defer to you. this bridges itself addresses some of the the the new implementation of bridges. Wouldn't that be the program that's that's trying to do some intervention? >> Yeah, you know, super great question and really good discussion. When

019we went through our math adoption process, I think we're now at like three or four years ago. Time flies when you're having fun. What we found is across the board the level of rigor wasn't what it needed to be like starting all the way at the elementary level. And so we adopted new core curriculum materials elementary, middle, and high school um to increase that level of rigor. And across the board, that's what I've heard from our teachers is holy cow, this is more than we've been asking in the past. And so with that in mind, the idea is that now as students are entering the high school, the data should suggest that they are more prepared for higher levels of math because what the rigor was previously was not where it needed to be. Um

020that being said, also ensuring that we have the right uh structures to support students who may not be where we need them to be as we work through because the gaps only get bigger as the students get older. And so that is part of what that was when we went through that math curriculum adoption. And I think the high school would say absolutely what was adopted was more rigorous um for students as well. And I know the middle school has said that as well. I see Craig raised his hand. >> Craig. >> Yeah. Uh so to that particular point, what are we doing when it comes to staff buyin on on that rigor? Because we can do all of the we can do all of the uh planning and approvals of uh curriculum as much

021as we want. If if the staff isn't buying into moving forward with implementing that level of rigor, then all all we're doing is allowing for that back backslide to continue to happen. >> Thank you. Um I agree. I think that professional development piece is key. Um and this proposal came from the math department um at the high school level. this was not uh this was not something that I brought to them. That was definitely something that they felt very strongly about and so I know at the high school level um they are in support of this. We feel this is what will be best for students um in our professional opinion and we want the students to succeed. So we're not going to create a situation where we think they're going to fail. I my

022comments were more geared for the early elementary, not necessarily the high school. I think I think this is a definite strap step in the right direction at the high school level. Um so I appreciate I appreciate the effort that's being put forth here. It makes sense. Um, but I I'm I'm really concerned about um the uh the bridge's implementation and whether or not that's that's taught to fidelity and what we're doing to ensure that we're properly coaching and providing them uh professional development on those levels as well. >> Thank you. >> Okay, move on to social studies. >> Okay, moving on to science. We'll go with science next. Brian Gerky is here. He is the uh chair of the science department uh at the high school. Um and uh again I will bring your attention

023to the main uh outline of the proposals. You can see here there are some proposed uh course removals um as well as some other adjustments. Um Brian was here in May and uh did share um a bit of a why, what, and how uh for next steps in May. The science department has updated their why, what, and how and where they are at right now. Oops, I'm sure to share this appropriately. Um if if you recall from May um those of you who were with us uh they were going through a similar process in the science department where they were looking at their standards the NGSS standard mapping um and determined that there were some areas for improvement in their department. They also did a data dig um since that May meeting where they noticed

024that uh growth on preac from 9th to 10th grade was lowest for students who were in that integrated chemistry and physics um compared to the students who were in chemistry or honors chemistry. Um and so they decided that they needed to make some changes again you'll hear to increase the rigor in uh their uh coursework. They had originally thought that they might do some changes with uh course sequencing, but at this time they felt like uh that was probably not the right timing for it. Um but they did want to ensure that we were increasing the rigor for all the students in their their courses. They too, yeah, you're good. Thanks, Dana. Um they too um have been working with the um EEL department and the special education department to determine how to best support

025all students taking more rigorous courses. Um and they are proposing uh the following. And Brian, I'm going to turn this over to you because this is your area of expertise. >> [clears throat] >> So basically our proposal is to eliminate the lower rigor track um which kind of starts in 10th grade with integrated chemistry and integrated physics. Um eliminating that course removing it from the the course book um and then having those students would be uh into the chemistry regular chemistry class. Obviously that would increased scaffolding from from the teachers and possibly um special ed or or ML teachers there as well to support those students. Um, and then the junior year, uh, eliminating earth science and environmental science as that lower rigor, uh, track course. Keeping those [clears throat] in the course book, but

026offering them more as true electives for seniors who have already completed physics and have an interest in a one semester, one trimester science course in one of those topics. Um, so that's that's kind of the the main portion of it is to eliminate that lower rigor track, encouraging students to take biology, chemistry, um, [clears throat] and physics for their third credit uh, in the general the general pathway there. >> Um, there's also a note about removing honors physics one and two and if you want to just speak to that. >> Yeah, so removing honors physics one and two is kind of a separate thing. uh we've been struggling getting sufficient numbers to run AP physics every year. Uh it's been enrollments in the about 10 students a year and it's like not enough to run

027the class. Um but it's one we do want to run. We've been running honors physics in addition. Um we did some site visits and talked to some other schools at WSST and most schools do not offer an honors physics class. They offer a regular physics class and then an AP physics class. And from the college board, there is no prerequisite for science courses for that AP physics. It's there's a math prerequisite which would be concurrent enrollment in algebra 2. Um, which all of our students will basically be accomplishing that prerec. So students would be ready to take AP physics that are looking for that higher rigor um course. So eliminating that middle option and hopefully increasing enrollments in that AP physics course. >> So students wouldn't take physics and then AP physics. They would just

028choose between physics. >> Physics or AP physics. >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> So that we would have more opportunity for students to be taking the course and >> which is different than the other AP science courses for whatever reason. But >> chemistry you have to take. >> Yeah. Chemistry you have to take I have to take B. anything. >> Craig, you got anything? >> Okay. So, then what I would do is move that on the proposal for the November board meeting. >> Yes. >> All right. All right. So, let's go back to our original. >> Thank you. Um document. Um the next department is social studies. I don't have anyone here from the social studies department. The only thing they are uh proposing at this point is to [clears throat] remove a course known as

029Thank you, Brian. Uh superheroes and social issues. Um this course if I'll turn it over to Jason if he wants to speak to that just a little bit too. >> Yeah, for sure. Um so I I met with uh department head in social studies. This was a class that was proposed a few years back uh by a teacher who was like a a passionate path for that teacher, right? So that's something that they would think would be interesting connect with kids in a different way with a social studies elective. Those numbers have not been super stable. Um that teacher is no longer uh working with high school and um [clears throat] and the there is no like curriculum for it. So it's like a teacher created curriculum that the every teacher teaching it would have

030to kind of like put their own con spin on that class. And so just given that the the the requests for that class haven't been like overwhelming and that that would be um a class that from year to year it could be maybe a different teacher teaching at the department was like we feel like we have a really good breath of offerings in the electives in social studies anyway. So they're just looking to take that off the books. And then they're moving financial literacy to a course for juniors and seniors um rather than sophomores, juniors, and seniors. Correct. >> Okay. And there was a change in state law where that is now a requirement for graduation. WSD had that as a requirement for graduation before the state law was in place. Um and so that

031explains a bit of that change as well. >> And that's going to be under the social studies department. The >> financial literacy. >> Yeah. Yes, it is under the social studies department. Though I know that the business department has some ideas about that as well. Um, but I don't know that we're prepared today to propose anything differently. [laughter] >> I see some smiles from that corner. >> Okay. Any other questions? >> All right. um PE just uh changing recreational fitness mentor and renaming it to physical education mentor would be the only change that they are proposing. Any questions about that? Um art has no changes. Um but I will turn it over to Nicole Lap now. Nicole is here um as the chair of the world languages department here. Um she is a Spanish teacher

032in the district but we have a proposal for both uh Spanish cultures and conversation as well as German cultures and conversation. I believe the two courses uh mirror each other except for uh just obviously a difference in the languages. So Nicole, I'll turn it over to you. >> All right. Thanks. [clears throat] Um we have in the world language department we've kind of been batting around for the last couple of years um just looking at our course offerings um and just wanting to provide students with additional opportunities um I had originally thought of this many years ago um as an opportunity for students um who had completed Spanish 4 so first and second year Spanish um just to have another opportunity for them just maybe as a different pathway. Um, some students get intimidated by

033thirdyear Spanish. It's um pretty rigorous. It's pretty um grammar heavy because our fourth year curriculum is a Spanish 202 course where students are able to earn those college credits through W Green Bay, 14 college credits. So, it's a pretty rigorous course and in third year there's a lot we do a lot of work to make sure that they are ready for that because um you know those um professors and adviserss from W Green Bay are in the classroom multiple times through the year making sure that those students are meeting um you know the level of rigor and the um levels of language that they need to be in order to get those college credits. So, we do a lot of work in third year and that really intimidates some students. So, I thought there are

034a lot of students that would like to continue with Spanish but are intimidated by that um third-year course. So, I had thought like what if we had um another opportunity for students to continue um something that would be rigorous but in a different way. um really focusing on communication um cultures um just focusing spending time on things that we maybe don't necessarily get to in um in those other courses just for because of time constraint. Um, so I thought just having another opportunity. Well, last year I mentioned it to some of my third-year students like, "Oh, you know, I've been thinking about this and um and they were like,"Oh my goodness, I want to take I want to take that class. Like I want to like I'm in third-year Spanish and I also want to

035take that class." And so then we talked about it being another um opportunity for those students who are in third and fourth year um kind of their off trimester. So like right now I have third-year students first trimester and third trimester having an offering like that in second trimester where um they're able to kind of continue with Spanish in a different way but then that way in third year or in um third trimester they just kind of come in without having lost any time. Um, similarly that Spanish 202 class, the fourth year class is typically offered first and second trimesters. Second trimester ends in March. Those students aren't taking their university placement tests until the summer or fall. And so that's a big gap of time to not have used Spanish. So having this course

036offered in third trimester would let those students like have a shorter break between um the end of fourth year Spanish and their university placement test. So just having again another opportunity for those courses. So, we were discussing this in collaboration and the German teacher Kim Schneider said, "I've been thinking about the same thing for my students um especially with that gap between fourth year um you know ending in second trimester and then those university placement tests to get those you know get those students ready, keep them using their language um because you know once you stop using it kind of starts to slide. >> So that was kind of the rationale. Um, again, no staffing changes. We could accommodate these [clears throat] courses with our current staffing. Um, it would just be a matter of

037figuring out when it would be offered in relation to the other third and fourth year classes because this would be for students that had completed Spanish 4 and German 4, which are like first and second year. So, and um to piggy bank piggyback on that, the question was asked earlier, what is LA? Because you'll notice that these courses would be considered LA courses. The um high school does not use a class rank. Um they use a LA system. Uh this is outlining the inboard policy where they get uh points for [clears throat] uh taking rigorous courses. Um and then that is what's used to determine like um laud kum la and like valadictorian type pieces. Um and so this course would be one of the courses that would be considered for that. We do outline

038that in the course book when students are um when students are enrolling um for the course as well. So I know [clears throat] that is what the LA piece is. Uh questions about the world language course proposals. I do. Um, Cole, does uh for Kim's German classes too, is that the same with the 14 credits from Green Bay or No. >> Well, they don't they do not have a um the college credit in high school program. However, students are able to take a placement test at university when they start and they are able to receive retroactive credits. So, it it is, but it isn't. um which is confusing I realize. Um, so our the Spanish students when they're in fourth year, they are enrolled. They are students of UW Green Bay and they get the

039three credits for the Spanish 202 class that they're taking and then the rest of the credits come from these retroactive credits which is basically um you like when I went to college we didn't or when I yeah when I went to college we didn't have this college credit high school program. So, I started I took a placement test the summer before my first year of college and depending on where you test into um they they go, "Okay, you tested into, you know, 321." Well, we're going to assume that had you you have to take 321, you have to get a B or better, but we're going to assume that had you taken all of those classes underneath it, you would have gotten the credits for it. So, we're going to give you the 321 credits,

040but we're also going to backfill and give you all of those other credits for um the courses you didn't have to take here, basically because you tested out of them. Um so, the German students, that that's what they're [clears throat] college credit, but those kids can go to college, take the placement test, and as long as they take one semester of link of German and get a B or better, they will get all of those retroactive credits. So in the end they do or they have the potential to but not before they graduate if that makes sense. >> Yes. And then I have one other question for Jenny. So why am I saying this right? LA. >> Yes. >> Okay. Well the LA points would those be looked at also for potential scholarships? >> Um

041I don't know how that works with the scholarship committee in all honesty. I'd have to look into that. Jason, I don't know if you have that answer right off the top of your head or not. >> I looked up open you were talking to Jason. >> I saw that. [laughter] >> I'm not gonna lie. >> Darn it. >> That's something that I'm learning as I go for sure as far as how the scholarship process goes. >> I'll make a note of that. >> Okay. Because that might be helpful too if there's um you know a decision between one student or another to see if those points you know where those points fell in. [clears throat and cough] >> I'll look into that for you. Great. Good stuff. I think that makes a lot of sense.

042Um I'm just kind of curious uh about the budget impact. Um [clears throat] is there extra materials or text that's still going to need be need needed for the course? >> There [clears throat] won't be text. There may be um I know that the German curriculum has a really strong um online component where Kim um would be able to use that and another um another resource that she has. Nothing would be outside of our current budget though. >> Okay. >> Um we would be able to um purchase those memberships or [clears throat] those um resources with our current budget. So there may be things purchased but nothing outside of what we're currently allotted. >> And Nicole um Kim had used the term Germanspeaking world several times. What would that be considered besides Germany and Austria?

043[clears throat and cough] He says that speak German. [laughter] >> Okay. Any other questions? >> All right. >> Go ahead. We'll move that on. Okay. And then do language and all updates, music, egg, um, but business, ed, and information tech. And I'll turn it over to Diane Weber, who is our business teacher here in the district, and Sarah Tarpie, who is the chair of that department. Diane is uh we are lucky to have Diane in her first year here in the district and had previously taught for many many many years in Jefferson. So we appreciate her expertise in this area. Uh there are two courses that are being proposed. One is a new course and one is an update to one of our other courses. So Diane, I'll turn that over to you. >> Okay.

044Looking at our current course list, uh we felt that there was a gap with our maybe lower level freshman level um course options. And many schools will offer what's called an introduction to business course which allows students to kind of experiment with the many different pathways within business marketing and information technology. Thus allowing them to plan better as they move forward and look at the different pathways and the different courses within our pathways. um they'd have a better idea of maybe which type of courses would be a better fit for them versus just taking the course, not really knowing what that course is about and then finding out that's really not my area of interest. Um so really trying to help them hone in on pathways of interest and um career track paths that might

045be a better fit for them because there are so many um different pathways and career paths in the area of business and marketing and technology. Um the earlier we can get them into that pathway the better. Um I think it also allows um obviously students the opportunity to experiment. Uh high school is a time where they should be trying out different classes without necessarily um you know committing to a particular area of interest. And this again allows them to do that exploration um to find out if this is even the area that they're interested in. Um I wasn't a part of the original proposal for this as I was not here last year. So that's why Sarah is here to kind of fill in any gaps and help answer any potential questions that I can't

046answer. >> Any questions about this course proposal? Um this is a com I'm sorry this is a comment not a um question. Um my my son happens to be a chairman at a at a college university in entrepreneur entrepreneurship. I I'm excited for what you're introducing because our young people coming up here have great ideas in their minds and of how to start a bit of what they want to do but not aware of how to start a business, how to promote all those kind of things. So, I'm excited that that's being introduced uh for the high school. as as somebody that actually um [clears throat] has an entrepreneurship emphasis, this is right up my alley. I I'm surprised that we haven't offered an introductory course at all in the past because this I mean

047to this level. So this this makes a lot of sense and I I think this will um peak a lot of interest in that particular area. So yeah, this is great. I think they said the same thing to me when we were chatting about it is we're surprised we don't have a course like this. >> So I'm grateful to them for uh proposing this and uh and working through the details on that. Um the second uh uh proposal you'll see from the department is um to do a revision on one of our courses. Um we currently have a course called web design and they are proposing that we change this to social media marketing. And again, I will turn it over to Diane. >> I think as uh AI continues to advance, we're going to

048see a lot of changes in our technology courses. Uh web design is is one of those hit or miss courses at the at the high school level. Uh what I'm hearing and what I understand is the AI technology is going to easily be able to help develop websites. Um, having said that, it's still important for students to understand the background behind it. They still may need to be able to tweak the code that may be written for uh, a website, but we want to kind of expand that to include um, all social media and how social media is used within the business and marketing world. Um, again tying it into both an IT track as well as a marketing track where um they can look at the analytics, they can look at how um different

049websites, different social media um can track what people are doing um you know those clicks and how that impacts their decisions as marketers. >> So there is a full course proposal for this. So it's not just a simple rename but a change in uh what the uh names [clears throat] of the course would be. Um are there any questions about that? I [clears throat] I think this is not only useful and you know you know if pursuing a business background um but this is just useful information for just about anybody that that wants to u promote um either a business or an event or an activity or you know so this is this is good anybody will be able to walk away from this course and still be able to uh use what they've learned.

050>> That's good. [clears throat] >> Diane, uh do you do your students have opportunities to go to local businesses that have been you know this would be new to them and they have opportunities to market thing their business and such. >> I'm going to defer that to Sarah since she has closely with our businesses for apprentichip program. Yes, we do. And that's one of our pathways that is the highest uh enrollment right now. Um and we have uh employer partners um throughout Watertown and then surrounding areas. So currently, I just am pulling up my list. Um, we have 23 out of our 112 youth apprentices are within that marketing pathway. And then depending on where they're working, um, really depends on what they're doing. So, social media analytics or marketing could be done by some

051of these students where others might be selling product at a store. So there's different pathways within apprenticeship and marketing does have a lot of diverse pathways. Um so the first pathway that all marketing students have to complete is called professional sales. So becoming familiar with that process and identifying customer needs and completing sales transactions. And then that second year they can choose whether they get into competitive intelligence where this is more of that social media analytics or management um or merchandising. So, yes, we have currently 23 students in workbased learning for [clears throat] >> Very good. >> Um, you'll see there are a couple other updates to just renaming uh business law to business and personal law. Um, adding a prerequisite for uh intro the preerequisite of intro to business, the course that we talked

052about for the entrepreneurship course. uh renaming sports and entertainment marketing to sports, entertainment and event marketing. Um and then the last one is the one we just discussed renaming and revising web design to social media marketing. >> So just to be clear, so that's being incorporated now during this school year. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. So what's really changed between business law and business and personal law? Um, I just wanted to make sure that the course name reflected that we would be incorporating some personal law. Right now, it's just called business law. To be honest, I haven't looked at the curriculum. Um, I just see a lot of schools that use both the business and the personal terminology with law as it relates to, you know, both going into the business world as a

053personal. >> Maybe maybe you're right. Maybe that does better reflect the course. Um, I just I just always felt like there's a lot of carryovers in business law to personal law, I suppose. >> I guess I I wasn't sure. Again, that's not a course that I'm highly familiar with. Um, I have not had to teach that before. >> I just wanted to make sure that I guess we were able to >> cover personal I I know what you're saying. So, so really, so really there's not really much changed in as far as what the what the content is. >> I anticipate there's not. >> Okay. >> Um, again, I just wanted to make sure that we were kind of being transparent as far as we may bring this down to the personal level as well

054as how it applies to business. [clears throat] >> Oh, sure. Thank you. >> Okay. >> All right. And then the next department, um, family and consumer science, just, uh, removing a course that hasn't run since the 2324 school year. I would be remiss in not acknowledging Katie Perl in, uh, much of this backend work, she's tracking when we're running courses, how many kids are on every course to ensure that the course book that we present to them is a true indication of the offerings that we have. Um and so they are proposing removing that course because it has not had enough seats to run since the 23 24 school year. Um and then the only other update is in technology and engineering just uh removing the students who can take welding 2 um that specific

055type of welding 2 and then alternating years on these following courses. Um and at this time those are the recommendations from the high school. Thank you guys. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Anything? >> All right. Then I will have a um action item that will bring those [clears throat] for proposal in the November meeting. >> Yes. >> All right. So all right, topic B. Are we ready? >> Yes, we are. >> Okay. [laughter] Uh, so today is uh our opportunity to work through our process uh for the first time with our curriculum course guides. Um, as you know, this uh was uh um born out of discussion about the uh process that we're using to approve our curriculum and our uh course um course book offerings at the middle school and high school. Um as

056well as the update in the policy with NEOMA. Um so, as I said, this is our first opportunity to work through that process and I'm certainly open to feedback with that. Um you'll note today what we have are the elementary math curriculum course guides. Um, for the elementary curriculum course guides, uh, we're really relying on Ashley Pyrick in her role as the curriculum coordinator to work with the elementary staff to put those together. Um, it's a little bit different process at the secondary level because those teachers are um, very uh, specialized in what it is that they are teaching. Um, and we understand with the ask with the change of curriculum in both literacy and math at the elementary level to be able to um really have Ashley dive into those pieces. Um, she did

057author these and then provide them to our elementary teachers for feedback. Um, which I very much appreciate. Um, I do want to point out that you'll note that each of these curriculum course guides is are quite lengthy. Um, and I would say that when we're working on our secondary curriculum course guides, I would not expect uh 15 pages for our secondary courses. And the reason for that is that at the elementary level, the vast majority of our teachers time is spent between literacy and math. So, these are obviously year-long courses. They are spending hours a day on literacy and math. And so these course guides are uh much longer than I would imagine we would expect um from the secondary level. Um I do want to share that I did meet with the vast majority

058of the secondary teachers on our staff development day um to introduce the curriculum course guides um and to start discussing the process that we would use to have those authored. Again, you got an uh opportunity to see Ask Us in action and I know Dave Lockstein is um ready, willing and able to support our teachers with the secondary curriculum course guides. Um just a point of note, um the challenge at the secondary level is that in some of our elective uh departments, there are many many many courses that they teach. Um Diane is kind of the perfect example of that. She teaches many many courses throughout her year. um and so would have the responsibility for creating several curriculum course guides. Um and I do believe that that is an area of uh potential uh

059concern for our secondary teachers. And so uh working with Jason and the middle school staff to or middle school principles to determine how we can support them. I know Ashley has offered up as well uh to support that as well. But I did want to make sure that I shared that with you. Um, as you know, we are working through a process to create a curriculum committee and eventually these course guides would move through that curriculum committee. Um, though I do know that it was the uh desire of the board that we continue working through this process and not wait until that committee uh was created, which is why you see it here today at Ed Services. Um, again, I'm open to feedback [clears throat] on our process. Um there's certainly uh an opportunity for

060you to take a look at what it is that we're teaching in our second in our elementary math curriculum. Um and just have a conversation about what do we want our process to look like? Um are there questions or concerns in particular about any of these course guides? Um then my hope would be at the recommendation of either ed services or the curriculum committee, we would move that to the board meeting of that month for full approval of the board and then we would be putting them on uh the curriculum website through the school district. Um kudos to Cheryl Hollits who is working diligently to get that website uh ready on the back end so that once these are approved that we're able to put those out there. >> Good. Good. Any questions? No, the

061these were so thorough. I I really did read every every single [laughter] page and it's very impressive. So So that is this is first year for the kids right now or no? >> This is the second year for Bridg's math at the elementary level. >> So do you see scores improving? >> Uh that's a really great question. Um typically when you implement a new uh set of materials you see something called an implementation dip where the scores go down. Okay. um because the teachers are getting used to the new materials. Um and I would say that our uh state test boards the forward indicated that happened. Uh we did pull together with the leadership team over the summer to work through some uh pieces as it relates to pacing. Pacing is something that can be

062really challenging in a first year because as a teacher, you're sort of haven't been through that whole uh set of materials yet. And so not knowing like where to emphasize and where we can, you know, like work through it a little bit more quicker because you know it's going to show up later. Um so we had a leadership team meet over the summer um and work on a curriculum pacing guide for math um so that we ensure that we are making it through all the materials. And within that, they put in what's called data days where they can analyze um sort of where they're at and uh where they need to spend a little more time reinforcing that. Just quick, >> so um I mean it's kind of related to my earlier comment. I'm just

063trying to understand this a little better. Um so when we implement a new curriculum like bridges if we're so far if there's a disconnect um with the rigor let's just say at grade five we're coming if we come in with a a new curriculum right uh they could be uh at grade three according to this particular pacing guide when introduce that new bridges um curriculum. So, so I'd imagine that there's it's a f a del a delicate balance where we are able to try to bring those kids along when we're implementing new curriculum. Um you mentioned pacing guides. Uh, do those pacing guides in this particular situation, are they updated [laughter] regularly as we start to begin to teach to Fidelity the the the new um the newer [clears throat] curriculum? Because that's where I

064that's where I could see a potential disconnect, right? um a a teacher that's teaching like fourth or fifth grade math might say, "Well, these kids, this is way beyond where the this kid these kids levels are and I can't even teach this and be successful at it." So, so then so then there's that uh that disconnect that challenge that they they could have. Um what uh [clears throat and cough] are we are are the are the PC guides constantly being modified then? >> Yeah. Good questions. Uh one thing that I was remiss in pointing out is uh thanks to Chris Mallaloy. She did a real deep dive into the um the results from the forward assessment. We were in a unique situation when we adopted Bridges, which is that we were able to have one

065group of teachers, so one teacher at every grade level teach full bridges two years ago. So last year was their second year. when she looked at the data, the teachers who had taught the bridges for two years saw a large growth in their um student data which I saw as like a glimmer of hope like right the teachers who've been through it twice now the second time around they understood the curriculum and they were better able to meet the needs of the students and we saw more growth with that um and so I do believe that that is um very indicative of what we are hoping hoping to see now with every teacher going through it for the second year. And then to your point about the pacing guides, another piece that uh Chris did

066is she analyzed the data with her um district's data team um and then pulled together with a couple of our elementary math teachers. one of whom had had the opportunity to teach it for the second year and she's in her third year and had some guidance on how we might make note in the pacing guide about how to um best meet the needs of the students. And so Ashley and I are working on how might we update the pacing guides so that teachers can put that type of information that you're speaking to, Craig, in that pacing guide. um and so that we're really relying on the expertise of the teachers who had sort of an extra year through bridges. But I do think that's sort of one of those work in progress. >> Yeah. Yeah.

067I guess I guess my concern is that u if if we have if we implement a curriculum that's so drastically different from the previous uh curriculum we we've been utilizing or because the previous curriculum for whatever reason has drifted way out of uh alignment. uh that we we it's not just like a hard and fast break when we implement it. It's there's a little bit of a ramp up >> to get us to where where we need to be. >> Otherwise, there's there's going to be students that are lost in between and then there's more there's more need for interventions there. Um, I just I I I just I'm I'm just not sure like uh if there is that uh that level of attention that's placed on on this when we go forward and implement

068the new curriculum like that. I don't I don't know. I haven't Yeah, >> I haven't heard that expressed. >> Yeah, you know, it's a good point. uh in some cases when you're switching gears kind of like you've described, you know, you discuss like do we potentially say, okay, we're adopting this K3 and then the following year we bring on fourth grade and then the following year we bring on fifth grade so that it's not like a giant shift if you are in fifth grade. Um and uh that is definitely something for consideration when you're looking at shifts like that. We obviously did not do that in this case with bridges. Um, but it is something to be reflective on on like future adoption pieces if especially if it is a big change. You know, it's

069one thing if we're going from bridges version two to bridges version three. Um, but when you are making a major shift like thinking about rolling it up is sometimes things that districts do in that case. So I appreciate that point. >> Okay. So, this is about parent engagement or caregiver engagement. Um, I know there's a lot of parents that perhaps feel lost as well. Is there a [clears throat] parent guide or parent assistance for them to be able to come alongside so that there's not dual frustration at home? That's a really good point and I think that's something that you hear often uh especially about math like um changing approach. Um we do make a point um actually created district uh parent letters before every unit to send home to talk about like here are

070the concepts um here are the ways that you can approach that in uh your um instruction and there's [clears throat] a link to that at the bottom of these um but that's certainly something that goes home um and that's certainly something that is an important point of consideration. Um, I know also in Bridges is they have what I don't know, it's not home links, that's everyday math, but home connections where it's sort of like an at-home project that you can work on together that emphasizes the um the concepts that are being taught. Um, and that is at teacher discretion to send those home as well. Um, so those are two pieces that are in in involved in the curriculum to support that. >> Great. Thank you. Okay. Any other questions? [clears throat] >> All right.

071>> So, would the committee be comfortable um moving these forward to the November full board meeting to adopt these curriculum course guides? Um which like I said would be sort of our first uh step into what does this process look like? um or do we feel like we need more time to review this at this time? >> I think it would be fine personally for it to move forward to the general board meeting. I think that if there are questions, the board members can bring them up. >> Um but I do think these are very thorough. >> Yeah, >> they work well. >> I very much appreciate Ashley's work on this. It's uh something that was a a big ask and um I do want us to be cognizant um as we're thinking about our

072secondary teachers um with the number of course guides that they will be working on. I just want to be mindful of that for them. Um and I know kudos to Jason and to Leanne and Mike. I know that they're working on clearing time for teachers to be working on those. I know the teachers are uh very appreciative of that. Um, but I know they also wanted us to be aware of that. You >> worked on this too, Ashley? >> Yeah, exactly. >> Man, I tell you, you are a machine. >> She is a machine. >> Um, so my plan will then to bring these forward to the November board meeting. I um mistakenly referred to the month as August yesterday, so clearly I haven't looked at the weather recently. We will then bring the HMH

073interreading elementary ones to the December ed services meeting um for us to review in a similar manner. Um Ashley is working through those so that we can have our teachers and our coaches uh review those. Um and we have both the English version and the Spanish version of uh the inter reading as well. So that is something to look forward to. Uh Jason, where are you carving time out for the teachers to work at? >> Yeah, so uh we have there's upcoming uh the high school has um kind of an opposite workday PE day schedule with the K8 buildings, right? So in January, I believe the K8 has have a work day and we would never try to stay away from the work day for us to prescribe things for the teachers to do. leave

074that for the teachers. But on the 19th, I think of January is a PD day for us. And so there may be some things that we um talk through with the staff early on on the 19th, but then like please use this time. We will we recognize that like trying to do this work um like during prep periods and lunch hours and before and after school. Uh it's hard enough like being a going to work in in you know 7:50 to 3:35 every day just being a teacher. let alone now you have this responsibility. So as much as we're able to like not getting uh in the way of like some department meetings letting them have that time without admin prescribing what's going on there. >> Sure. >> Uh January 19th will be a big

075day for the building. Um we I would imagine seven hours maybe of uninterrupted time for them to plug plug away at this as much as possible. >> And we have asked there are courses in the course book that aren't off actively being offered right now. So the idea is start with the courses that you are teaching right now. Um and like I said some of our departments again Katie Ple put together a beautiful spreadsheet. If spreadsheets can be beautiful she put together a beautiful one um that sort of outlines each of the courses autofilled as much as she could possibly into the curriculum course guide template for them. Um but the idea is start with the ones that we are teaching right now. Um I know I had proposed and I actually wish I had

076uh included that here. um a timeline for when and how we're bringing that either to ED services or the curriculum committee. Um I very intentionally created sort of a break in course proposals coming between January and March because I know that's kind of where the bulk of our PD time is. Um I would look to volunteers to come early if they are ready earlier. Um but then we do have that um sort of scheduled out into at least fall of next year. But it just kind of all depends on it's hard to predict like it it depends on the pace and how quickly um we're able to get them proposed to you and then how much time we want to spend diving into each one of those how quickly we'll get through those. Um but

077I really do know that our teachers understand the importance of it and are doing what they can to bring that to us in uh in a way that doesn't distract from the teaching and the learning in the classroom um that they're doing at this time too. So, >> but I'm like maybe Ashley can just do it. [laughter] >> I never thought of that. Actually, >> I I did crack a little bit of a joke when we were meeting with secondary because I said, you know, we have ask us or I said or you could ask Ashley. [laughter] Um, so certainly a a work in progress. We want to be responsive to our teachers, but yet bring to the board uh the pieces that are of interest and of purview as well. One final question before

078we move on. So these course guides are obviously fairly broad. It's for anyone who's using the curriculum that the course guide is made for. Would the teachers then be sending out notices to parents, hey, we're moving on to um you know, we're moving on to unit two today or we're we're moving from module one to module two in unit three or or anything like that. >> Yep. And that's what those parent letters are really for. >> It was password protected. I couldn't actually see the parent letter. I wonder we just have to share it to the whole I'll make sure that we do that. I'm sorry about that. That is really what the parent letters are for. Um we talk a lot about like the purpose of the curriculum course guide and I believe that

079the purpose for me for the curriculum course guide is broad like it's for our board, our community, our families to know what's being taught. But like the parent communication is different. Um, like in my mind, a kindergarten teacher wouldn't print this off and send this home at the beginning of the school year to say, "Here's what we're learning in math. It's more that the parent letters are for that purpose as well. But if a parent wanted additional information, they can certainly come to our website to see that." So, good question. And we'll make sure that those are not password protected anymore. >> I have one more. So, um, I'm newer, too, Jason. So I Okay, [laughter] that's our excuse only for like for a while. >> We're running out of time, >> but I'm going

080to make >> So in the community, a couple people have realized I'm on the school board positively and um and I don't mean to bring this up, but I don't know where else to to do it. So, it's two business people that have mentioned, "Hey, school board lady, um, make sure students know how to count money because I'm hiring kids and they don't know, they don't have a clue what to do nor how to weigh meat." That's one of the places. All right. So, that's one of the Okay. And so I don't know where I noticed the fifth grader, they're learning with money, you know, and I don't know that might be too too young, but maybe not. And I is somebody here from middle school right here now? [clears throat] >> You can do.

081>> Okay. So I don't know where that belongs or what, but that two business owners have just mentioned that to me, so here it is. >> Thank you. >> Well, so I don't know. This is it's not on the agenda for me at all, but like uh I know that coming up in the next few months there's going to be some some like 612 business community school meetings, building bridges and some other things that are like where where like local businesses are coming in and talking with the schools, talking with the teachers. These are the kinds of like skills and knowledge e whether it's soft skills or like weighing meat skills, right? Those would be things that they be able to talk about. And the whole purpose of that meeting is for the school to

082kind of follow the lead of what the community is looking for in a high school graduate. Like somebody who can be employable when they step out the door after graduation. And so like I don't know if it'll get to that level of like counting money for sure and like being able to like >> problem solve on your feet and do mental math and things like that I'm sure will be things that get talked about. Um, but as far as like specifically like where in the curriculum at the middle school, um, I will say that the shift to illustrative math at the middle school has allowed has definitely focused more like real world application of things versus like always just solving for X and not knowing what X was or like how to like do that.

083Um, so I will say that like students coming out of the middle school have a much more like functional knowledge of of like math concepts in this example. um that hopefully the high school will see that as we build up through the through the grades. >> Yeah. >> And money concepts do start in kindergarten with nickels and dimes with counting by fives and tens. So it does start early on and it builds up in in bridges as well. >> I I saw that I wasn't sure I know but you know it starts very young but I didn't know that you could incorporate it then pretend playing store. [laughter] I I will say um when I first started in grocery when I was 15 years old, I've heard this comment constantly. These kids don't know how

084to count money. They do. It just takes practice. You know what I mean? It's just >> I think it's the counting back the change is the piece that really trips them up. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> It's funny. I was thinking the same thing and I was still thinking about I'm going to have to tell my mom this. I remember when she taught me a trick on how to do that and to this day I still use it. Um so shout out to my mom. [laughter] >> All right. >> Ready for summer school? >> We're always ready for summer school. Are we Mr. Whitaker? [laughter] >> I'll refer to you as Mr. Whitaker so you can't look at Jason Bull and see if it's on his his agenda. [snorts] Um, we just have a little

085update for you about our uh summer of 2025 offerings. Um, and uh sort of how our student enrollment uh changed over time as well as like our financial summary. That's kind of the first page of the uh summer school uh handout that you have there. Um you'll note that we were able to offer 4K and K. Um getting ready for kindergarten and first grade, grades one through four. We had a um some academic offerings including ready set read, reading fanatics and a math course as well. Grades five through eight, we added in the English and math um as some more additional academic support. And then at the high school level, you had the students had an opportunity to earn initial credit in health and in financial literacy. And then also uh in credit recovery they

086had an opportunity um to earn credits back that they may not have earned throughout the year. You can see our student enrollment was down um and that does change what is called the FTE which means like the number of minutes that we get um translates into an FTE. So our FTE was down. Um but I will say uh kudos to Jason and Cheryl as we were staffing for the summer. we were able to uh find some efficiencies in staffing um and so that you'll note that even though our revenue was down, our expenses were very much down um during the summer and we were still able to support the students that came um and uh with just fewer staffing. Um, I do believe, um, if you want to get into the wayback machine with me,

087uh, after COVID, we had to make some changes with summer school and summer school staffing. And perhaps we weren't as um, judicious about, uh, staffing in summer school as we maybe had been in the past. And I think that we were able to do a kind of nice course correction this summer with that. Um, we made a very concerted effort if there were not a lot of students in a class to close that class. uh reassign those students to someone else. Um and so we were able to really make um make some changes with the expense side of summer school as well. Um and the next page is just outlining what is new for 2026. Jason, do you want to walk through that or would you like me to >> I [clears throat] can start

088>> first? I should say >> you did say Jason. So I was >> Mr. Whitaker. Um, so I will say that some of some of the uh last year the end of the school year and the start of summer school were really really really close to each other, right? So, we did have some folks who were kind of lifers, taught amazing and really loved summer school and like kind of took the summer off a little bit because they there was just a matter of a few days between the end of the school year and summer school where where the school year now ending earlier in June when there's a bigger gap, people can still feel like they have a little bit of break between those two things. Uh, so I I'm looking forward to 20

089summer 2026 seeing folks that have really been good to the growth of the summer school program really maybe being on the table again considering it for sure. Uh, so starting on the 15th um, let me let me pull the calendar up on my screen here. >> I have it up on the big screen too. >> Okay, sounds good. U, so again I believe graduation is on the 6th of June. We have a solid week between the two. Uh the 15th would be a work day uh and like our orientation day for summer school open house that night and then you're looking at honestly uh five 4 day weeks that make up the regular summer school session. Uh unified strength does have a little bit of an extended window over the summer. They may a little

090bit more. But as far as like most of the summer school offerings, most of the summer school students would attend uh five 4 day weeks getting us to our um 20 days of summer school and ending on the 16th. Uh definitely looking for ways to grow the program. Um, as I was at Rotary yesterday, uh, somebody who works for he's in parks and recckery works specifically with the pool, but he is asking about like proposing a lifeguarding class this summer housed uh, potentially at the Riverside pool. They mutually beneficial. They are running into a shortage at the aquatic center with lifeguards. Um, and they're looking for a way that they could help grow that over the course of the summer. We look at that as like if we can get enough students to run it,

091why wouldn't we do that? Make money for the district as well. So, uh always open to those uh ideas. Uh there's been some conversation in the past about running like a traffic safety program in the summer to get students kind of that certification, have the school district be a part of that and have, you know, dozens and dozens of students taking that as a way that would also help the bottom line with the district finances. Uh but anyways, you can see I'm getting down a rabbit hole here. Um you can see on the calendar kind of what that schedule look like those 40 weeks. Uh popping back to this agenda. Sorry about that. I'll if you want to take a look. I'm just going to speak just a tiny little bit to um changes to

092reading through Act 20. Um, there was a a a piece of the law and it has been now adopted [clears throat] as policy in our school district where we need to offer an intensive reading program for any student who has not met the goals of their third grade reading program, third grade reading plan. Thank you. I don't know why I forgot that. Um, their third grade reading plan every year until they are proficient on the forward. this summer would be the first summer that we're required um by our policy to offer that. And so I've been uh chatting with Desa who is here uh as our reading specialist and we'll be speaking a little bit more to our ACT 20 um uh data uh from the first window of the school year. Um, one challenge

093that I will note is, uh, as we think about staffing that, it becomes challenging to staff over the summer, um, with folks in particular who have like leading teacher licenses. Um, and so wanting to think about how we can be creative about offering that intensive reading program. Um, I've also been, uh, listening in on what state guidance is about what that intensive summer reading program is. And um there is nothing in the state law that defines the intensiveness of the summer reading program. Um and so that's really up to local districts about how we want to define that. Um, I do feel like this is an opportunity though for us to um, think creatively about how we might want to offer that not only for students who are graduating out of their third grade reading

094program, but for students in kind of K3 who are on these reading plans so that we can spend some time over the summer really trying to help support skills and at least avoid like what's referred to as sort of the summer slide. So when they come into school the following year, um they're more prepared to be at grade level with that. Um so that's something that we're considering. We don't have a a specific plan for you. >> That would be that in that that concept intrigues me a little bit. I think that um you know you could potentially uh if you have something that's put together like that you can actually present that to some of the prochial schools as well and they may consider sending their kid to the course over the summer. That's

095that's a good thing. Uh so uh now as far as the intensive reading program for act 20 uh does that does that also apply to children retroactively? I mean because because there are children that have let's say gone through the program let's say they're at fifth grade but they're still not reading at a third grade reading level. So, does that mean that we're required to bring them back to that intensive reading program so that they can be at that third grade reading level? >> No. The way the law works isn't retroactive. However, I do believe it's important for us to be offering opportunities for students to be making skills up over the summer whether or not that law requires it to be perfectly honest. But the law, the way the law was written is the

096school board had the choice as to like an implementation date and we could have put the implementation date all the way out to I think 2027 or something like that. We chose to bump that implementation date up so that it would be this summer that we would be implementing that. >> Could that actually be an action item for the next board meeting to >> discuss what to have this move forward for this summer? >> Absolutely. Um, we still need to work out plans on what exactly it's going to look like. Um, Craig, it's funny you talked about the private schools and I was thinking maybe some of the teachers of the private schools would like to work for us over the summer. [laughter] I also wonder if there might be some connections with Marinatha for

097uh teacher candidates that might be interested in working summer school. Um, but just trying to expand that pool of uh folks coming in to teach what that would look like. Um I think also determining what intervention uh and how we would be teaching that and how we'd be training those folks will be super important too. >> Yeah. I mean but the act 20 applies to all the parochial schools as well. So >> yeah I know that certain portions of it too but I will be honest with you and tell you I don't know exactly the ins and outs of that. So that's >> something that they're they're all concerned about. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> Stan did you [clears throat] >> uh Yeah. Yeah. No, I was just going to clarify with what Craig was asking

098about. Uh in previous discussions, we've it's been pretty explicit. You cannot force a student to attend summer school. So, you have to provide these opportunities for the student, but you cannot tell the student, no, you need to come to these intensive reading programs or remedial classes. >> You have to offer it, but you cannot require it. Yep. And that's been pretty clear through the state as well. Um, I feel like in my mind that's where the parent communication piece comes in where we're talking to families and saying this is really important. This is what they're going to be offered. Um, and trying to be supportive with that. But you are correct. We cannot require it. >> Well, I mean it logistically, let's just play this out a little bit. they're still going to be stuck

099on that that reading plan that that uh intensive reading plan until they get past a third grade proficiency. So, so yeah, it should definitely be something that parents should [snorts] be concerned about >> regardless of whether or not it's a requirement for the summer. >> They still have to do that. >> So, I I don't know. I guess a little confused. >> Yeah. And I do think like families have summer plans that can sometimes make it challenging to attend. I love the flexibility in the calendar. >> We love the idea of like the 4th of July. It sell perfectly this year and we like it when it falls well. Um it falls so that it's a 4-day weekend over the 4th of July because I think a lot of families like to get away during

100those times as well. Um, but I think sometimes that's a challenge and sometimes things like transportation end up being a challenge for families too um to get students uh where they need to be for that summer programming. So, >> all right. >> Um, we can offer to teach kids, but we can't force them to learn, >> right? >> And so, that that's one of the problems that Daniel was talking about with that bottom 9%. you know, they were trying to take the easy way out and, you know, all we can do is offer. So, we're probably never going to get 100%. You know, so [clears throat] um I know that uh Jenny, you and Jason and Jared met with Lori Huffman and talked about the Mississippi program and the success they had. um offering this

101in summer school would maybe eliminate the retention for kids in third grade. Correct. >> Yep. And I do have that as an agenda item um during the director update. Um >> Oh, okay. So, no, I don't mean to like spoil alert that too, but um that is definitely a piece of the retention policy is talking about like the summer reading piece and um and so we can certainly talk about that at a future meeting as well. But is definitely um something that we're hoping to uh to support our students um so that their reading skills are where they need to be to be able to advance through the grades. All right, Jason, you want to take over? Maybe talk a little bit about what we're thinking about for location and then any new courses. >>

102Yeah. So, every year depending upon what's going on in the district, I mean, this is all written in pencil, right? But traditionally, we've had uh an elementary site um for some early elementary grades. We've had the middle school for middle school age, and then we've had the high school for, you know, K K4 and and 912. And so that would be our intention. If if there would be no reason to change that, we would go ahead and move forward with it. There would be other things that would be happening in the district. We have to reorganize that, but we want to do that in plenty of time to communicate that out. I'm in concert with Kevin Suko and communicate that with parents and transportation and stuff well in advance of that. Um last year the

103around this time the the board had had asked for new courses to include um some connection to even the electives even like the enrichment courses to include a more um rigor. I don't know if that's the right word. That's really overselling what was going on, but like like connecting what's going on in those uh enrichment courses to some like teaching and learning, right? And so I feel like some of the courses from last year did that. And um there was, you know, some computer-based courses that they would do some research and do some writing and then they it was Oregon Trail and I don't know I would get to about Utah and then I would die of this tree or like the [laughter] the oxygen would break every single time I shoot game anymore. But

104it was like last year they offered a course that you were actually reading about that experience. So students were learning a little bit more of the historical context and background as they [clears throat] were struggling through Utah, right? Um there were some reading courses where they would do some recipe reading and writing. They would learn different terms uh while they were like cooking uh different things instead of just like opening up the kitchen and having them do that. So that's been a focus starting last year that we're moving forward with still that hope and that expectation that if you're proposing a new course, we're trying to definitely make that something that you're getting a little bit more educational value out of it besides just like having fun, which is also a good part of summer

105school. So some new courses that are being offered are listed there. Um, as I said before, lifeguarding as of yesterday at Rotary, uh, somebody from the community is like, I'd love to propose a course like that. So, I think this is just kind of a work in progress as we go. Jenny had mentioned that uh had given a shout out to Cheryl and I. I mean, Cheryl's really the engine of all of all of this work. Uh so, she is amazing and so I feel like I need to differentiate my work with her work because she's really moving this this forward. So, um you can see some of those initial proposals. I'm sure there will be more uh as we go forward with it. But um last year was really successful. I was I was

106I had a great experience there. So, >> you did a survey of teachers um about what went well and I there were some market improvements I believe over previous summers which I think will make teachers excited to uh join in again. Just things like having supplies readily available and getting the materials in the classroom for the teachers rather than having them drag it uh across the district themselves. Um and so a real shout out to Cheryl about that. The other piece that I want to highlight is she has been working really really hard and really diligently to ensure that what it is that we are offering over the summer we are able to use the minutes for towards that FTE. So things like band camp um and being really uh tracking the attendance of kids

107so that we can count all of those minutes as well too. So she's done a fabulous job and I very much appreciate that. >> I had and I'm I'm probably doing it the wrong way again. [laughter] I I didn't know that you were looking for ideas and I just like was thinking of an idea. So, four weeks of a variety of game games and game board opportunities for students to engage with others uh learn or enhance math, spelling, cognitive and strategic skills in a more relaxed summer setting. So, I put down yachts, chess, domino, monopoly, uh cork, and scrabble as ideas. and what they all uh offer. >> Um because okay, and I'm just gonna say when I saw the Dungeons and Dragons, I thought the fantasy element there. Um the kids kind of get

108that in video games that they're doing all the time anyway. So I didn't know if you were just limited to those that you had listed as proposals of new classes. So that that's why I had only thought this as opposed to that. But >> but you know what whatever. So I just I just jotted [clears throat] these down. >> It's fabulous. If you wouldn't mind sharing that with us, we take it. >> Yes. >> Um >> I know we we do have some courses like board games over the summer and I think you're exactly right. There are so much >> strategy and thinking that come with some of those games. Um >> I didn't make enough That that's a com. No, that's the combination that it's one, two, three. >> That's good. >> So, >>

109got it. Sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't make it up because I was at home and a printer ink. >> Linda, I do know that they do do um use some of those games in that class. I chose >> to in the class of Oh, you mean >> For summer. So, is it It's called something already. >> Uh what is it called? It's called [laughter] inventive. top two sections. So, yeah. >> Sorry. No, it's great. >> It is great because I do think that a lot of those our games are sometimes overlooked for some of that. >> Yeah. >> And worthiness. >> Yeah. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. Craig, do we do we offer like any like techad courses over the summer or anything like that or I mean because some kids might be interested in like

110a small engine course or something like that. The other question would be like uh you mentioned uh like a a safety course. I forget what it was. Um but uh like what about like ATV safety or something like that? If you offered something like that, you probably get a ton of kids that want to know for sure. Check that sort of thing out. >> Or babysitting Red Cross skills. >> Yeah. >> Because they actually would have somebody that would come in and do it. Mhm. So they I know that Madison College does the babysitting and they also do the tractor safety um courses and things like that as well. And so those are things that they do I believe once or maybe twice a year depending on which class it is and it's usually not

111in the summer. >> And in the past like we've had a teacher do kayaking and there've been somebody going I mean the Rock River is right by Riverside. I think middle school kids that would fish down there and like they would be like just getting out and about. Um, and that one of the teachers who did the kayak and you said that she didn't work last summer because of the way the schedule worked out. So, no, I think those are all really good ideas. Um, you just got to have find the staff willing to do it and then I'm sure >> they would have enough students to run those for sure. >> And we always have to have a DPI licensed teacher um, in order to get those minutes. So >> Jason, um, including the

112expenses would be busy, correct? >> I believe that that was >> a great question. Can find that out for sure. >> Yeah, >> because I, uh, having talked to two bus Okay, thank you Cheryl. >> Yeah, >> see I told you Cheryl knows everything. [laughter] Um, >> okay. Then maybe the question I u have to address is to you because uh I talked to two bus drivers who said that u very often they're driving the big bus with one or two passengers going home afterwards. Is there any way we can look at saving money for summer school busing? some efficiency. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I mean, if if parents could say, you know, my student is staying in and playing with a friend, not riding home, >> if there's any way we can cut back

113on those expenses, it would be great >> because it looks like we should run summer school all year long, you know, looking at these expenses. >> Yeah. Right. Sounds good. Let me let me dig into that. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> All right. And then I think uh our next uh agenda item is the discussion about the anti-bullying respect um and relationships administrative guideline next steps. I think that was on the agenda last month and we didn't quite get to that >> right. Uh, and that really is something that Linda and I have talked about and um more or less having to do with um administrative guidelines. And from my perspective, it's how we can empower bullies to not need to take the power from a victim and how to empower victims

114to not need to feel victimized. If there's some way that we could um because I know that bullies have tried to tried to take power from uh victims and victims wouldn't allow it. that just that doesn't bother them if they say something or whatever. And um that if bullies have another way to get their power that they wouldn't be going after these victims. I don't know if I'm, you know, saying that correctly, but Linda, do you have uh anything to speak to that? >> Just that Yeah, that bullies would would probably not be identified as bullies. >> [laughter] >> number one, you know, just kind of de um delabel them so that they're [clears throat] not victimizing and it's it's totally distracting in the schools. It's, you know, it has so many different layers of

115it. Um but yeah, what that looks like um not sure. That's why we need, you know, we would need to do more research on that on that part. But um I don't know if the numbers have dropped down too a little bit. >> Well, we've been at about 1% of total incidents that occur in our buildings. 1% of that is about bullying. >> Okay. So that I mean that's that's quite quite low now, right? But it's still happening. But >> and what we have found is a lot of things are occurring outside of school through social media. Yeah. that are then brought into the building that we are working with or we have um is Crystal still over there or we have our um police department working through working through as well um things that

116happen outside and that are brought on in s then uh Sarah uh give me some insight on this because I think what you guys are proposing is additional supports for improving I guess culture in the instances where bullying does occur. >> Yeah. So, this is my intuition. I guess I don't know off the top of my head, but it's my understanding that generally speaking, that's one of the first options that schools pursue uh in the country. Um I I would say that that might actually be prioritized over um disciplinary response in many schools, not necessarily in these schools. So what are some of the things that the school has been doing and is currently doing uh as a sort of u as a sort of culture improvement >> technique for these >> so one of

117the things [clears throat] that our student services team and our administrators work on truly is about that power conversation. So, let's say that Sam could use. Let's say that I am targeting Sam. Um, I'm a hurt person. I need to gain power from others because that's what bullying is, right? I'm targeting repeatedly to gain power. Um, and Sam then needs to understand, as all children and all adults need to understand, is there are certain things you can say and certain things that you cannot say um that will assist you when you are being targeted because you truly are, you talked about power. You're giving your power to somebody else. Okay. Um, now what I will say is our student services team works with our students starting at a young age to talk about what it

118looks like, sounds like, and feels like to be kind to others and receive that kindness, okay, with what we say or how we interpret something being said to us. Is that mean? Is that bullying? Is that you're interpreting it in a in a way that is not realistic? Um but they start that very young and then those increase where we see incidents increasing of course is at the middle school level because we are developing our our adolescent brains aren't fully developed. >> We're trying to figure out who we are and where we fit in and who our people are. >> Um and and sometimes we um don't want to seem like we're like we're odd or that we don't fit in. Right. All kids just want to fit in. And so they'll go along with

119things and be bystanders or they'll they'll play into that a little bit. And it's about finding your own strength to be able to stand up and to be able to um feel confident in doing that. It's really really hard not only for adults, but it's really hard for a 12-year-old to be able to stand up and say, "No, please don't do that." Or, "No, stop doing that to my friend." And to be able to take that stance, it's a lot of pressure on our kids. >> Yeah. And at the middle school and you have you have five groups of fifth graders coming together in sixth grade. So like just figuring out like this is where I was for five or six years at Lincoln >> and now I'm at the middle school and there's a

120there's a Jason Whitaker that went to Webster too. something like trying to figure out where where you're sitting in the lunchroom and you know just like you're right and developmentally >> the mind of an 11 or a 12-year-old trying to navigate through all of that >> is is challenging for sure. >> And so it's one of those pieces where all of our staff have these conversations with our students and it it's informal and it's also formal depending on if there's a lesson about it. Um, but it's it's our entire WUSD family that comes together to serve all of our kids. And this just happens to be one of those areas where we do talk about it because we're growing as individuals and sometimes that growth is hard. >> So maybe we're already doing >> Yeah,

121>> it sounds like it's >> 1% is [laughter] >> Yeah, >> you know. >> So, um, and I'm not pushing back on you. But I think that some of the issue comes in because >> some of the issue comes in where it's 1% of reported and confirmed incidents. And the main issue with bullying in my experience is that the vast majority of bullying is not provable when it happens. >> And because it's not provable as a district, we cannot take some kind of concrete action on a claim without that evidence. So, do we provide like resources for people on how to like support claims when they are bringing those forward because I know that that was very difficult for many kids when I was younger when I was going to school >> and how you

122know like oh this guy was really mean to me in the bathroom but there's no way for anyone to verify that he was mean to me or great point you know. >> Yep. Great point. So I'm glad that we have principal here because he's worked at both of the buildings where we typically have those behaviors. Uh we do investigate all of those um claims as you say or all of those incidents where kiddos are are coming in saying this is what's happened. You're right. We don't cameras in a bathroom. >> Um however, it doesn't mean we don't investigate. Do you want to talk a little bit about the process that we've taken in both of our buildings? >> Yeah. I mean it's it's whether [snorts] it's bullying or a student being mean to another student

123or what whatever those definitions are, it's it's giving the students what they need on either side of that issue. Right? So, if it's a if it's somebody who is is not being a a kind classmate to another person, whether it meets the criteria of bullying or not, we're still going to interact in a way that's holding that student accountable. You're right, though, what's like in a bathroom in in a in a in a stall. >> Um, like we we we don't want a student with their cell phone recording that, you know what I mean? Like, we want that. >> Absolutely. >> And so, like, we we investigate. We talk about, you know, was that person supposed to be where they were? Were there witnesses around? was that like just trying to get to the nuts

124and bolts of like the environment around that situation. But it is it is challenging. Um and so when we we get a situation where Sarah's being mean to Sam or bullying Sam or whatever, um we will whatever we're able to uh the preponderance of evidence would say that Sarah is is involving herself in some sort of like not being a nice person and we're going to hold Sarah accountable to the handbook. Then we're also going to try to like give Sarah what she needs so that doesn't have to be a thing that Sarah's doing anymore. >> But Sam, you're right. Sometimes they're not labeled or it's not in our data as bullying per se. Could be harassment, could be disorderly conduct, could be I mean there's a variety to choose from, a large menu. Um

125but what's interesting is that when we do go through our data, we sit and we will go through the different referrals. So let's say that there is um the and we did this before the bullying referrals that have come on and we will go through every single one >> because we'll find that if a student has repeated offenses that is the student that we absolutely have to target more supports for. However, it doesn't mean that there are other offenses where we don't go, "Wow, we really need to support this student or this person um so that it doesn't rise to that level all of the time." Um but we're we're being proactive. >> Yeah. And um I cannot I cannot thank all of our teams and all of our administrators enough to make sure that

126everyone feels a sense of belonging and safety and um that it's a it's a good place to be in a sense of community and that culture. >> Sure. Sure. So then um and I appreciate all of that and I think that that's great. I think that's that's very vital. Um, is there could we work uh not like, oh, get it done by tomorrow or next week or anything like that, but could we work on providing resources to students and families on how to present that information in a way where uh it's easier, I guess I would say, for administrators to respond because I know that one of the number one issues that I have heard raised, not just in the last 18 months, but over the years living in Watertown and even hearing from people

127who have in other places is >> my child experiences bullying or dysfunctional interpersonal behavior, whatever you want to call it, and uh when I go and I talk to the administration, I don't feel like I'm getting like meaningful feedback. Part of that is going to be because you have to handle those things privately, of course, like we've talked about in the past, but I do think another element is that if I come into school and I say, "Sarah's bullying me." And then Sarah comes into school and Sarah says, "Sam's bullying me." it's kind of a wash and there's not a whole lot you can do outside of your investigation process. But if you have 50 of those instances happen, Jason, like what's like where are you at now? You're like backlogged forever and that can

128be very difficult. So I think that providing people with insight on how to present that information in a way that saves you guys time and allows you guys to address it in a more [clears throat] expedient manner is going to be helpful for the families and for the students. >> And there's a there's a form that gets embedded into our websites, right? It's a the district's uh bullying reporting form. It is, I believe, under it's it's helpful when people utilize it. It's underutilized at this point. >> Um but that is something that we respond to every single time. And when a parent comes in and parents come in pretty hot like I this has been happening and I've had enough and I'm coming in. Yeah. >> And you know I I walk them through that

129process like you know understand that you have something here that if you believe somebody's not being held accountable to doing something about it. This form like makes that happen 100%. Like we have to respond on the form of what we're doing and what we found out with our investigation. So maybe doing a better job of like spotlighting that that is a tool. It's probably what we've been steering people toward the most as the tool to report bullying. >> That being said, like you know, on a given year, the middle school or the high school might have, you know, a dozen of those things on there. Do I believe for a second that there's only a dozen uh [snorts] incidents of bullying happening in the 612 universe here? That's very much under reportported. >> Yeah. >>

130So, I understand that that point. So I mean maybe that first step is in our communications at least speaking at the high school level of sending out parent communication around this is a form to use if you feel like this is happening always reach out. We want to be proactive about this. We don't want it to be 50 of these building up building up building up and then a parent comes in and wants [snorts] the the school to really consequence the kid because they've been putting up with for months and months and months and this is potentially the first time the school's here. So it's hard to do that, right? >> Yeah. And I think that we did talk about that maybe even a year ago. I think we talked about, you know, perhaps putting

131that form in a more prominent place on the website. Um, including it on the weekly newsletters might be something. >> Yeah. Oh, that's >> uh and you know I think there's a balance because the idea is that although I I don't think that bullying is happening constantly all over the place in the schools you you don't want to give the impression that it is but you also want to make it easily accessible so that anytime it happens you're nipping that in the bud. So um however we're going to go about that probably be a question for uh oh wow sorry it's still too early for me I did not have enough caffeine today. Uh, that'd probably be a question for our social media specialist. We'll say that. >> Yeah. And so I know that it's

132on here under families, >> but it's buried, right? It's the second from the bottom and you have to go to the menu >> on this >> and you have to go down. >> The the main page isn't on the menu. >> No, it's not on the main page. So you could put it in a bucket down. Okay, we'll deal with it. >> Yeah, it's it takes over three clicks. You're going to have a real hard getting it, right? They say [laughter] >> website is unfriendly to me. >> Good point, >> Craig. So, we there's a lot of focus on parent and student involvement in the process. [clears throat] And we've talked a little bit about how the staff can um help to model some of the behavior. um that they expect out of kids. Um,

133I'm just curious if perhaps maybe the administrative guideline should also indicate other other preventative measures like the expectation of staff to be in the hallways and observe during passing periods or before school at pickup times and drop off times. you know, some of those types of things. other other observation items like in the classroom. uh when a student brings something forward and it might seem like it's inest, you know, some sort of a administrative guideline that the teacher pulls that child aside and seeks to understand the nature of the comments that were made or or or whatever the case may be. uh there is still a disconnect um because I think um students may not ever feel like they need to speak up about a certain thing and I think there's also there's also uh

134a responsibility for our staff to be able to be intentional about paying attention to what's going on and saying something. I'm not not accusing our staff of of any of that. Uh, I do think that our staff uh absolutely 100% uh cares immensely about how other children are are treated. Uh, but if they if the staff doesn't know exactly where to look or where those problem areas are, I think this administrative guideline can help uh help lead that particular uh solution more or less. So, >> well, one of the problems with that is that um that passing time as that bell rings and everybody's leaving, >> there's at least one or two kids that have questions that need to be answered by that teacher, so they can't get outside. Now, perhaps you could designate this

135week is your responsibility. You got to get out there right away. But, you know, I mean, you want that kid to go to the teacher for help and that's often the time to do it. So, it's it's not that they aren't they're just sitting there, you know, doing nothing. They're actually talking students. And so, it's kind of hard to uh to balance that. I I know that that was one of the things that we were asked to make yourself known out there in the hallway and so forth. And it might be easier in some classes than others, but um you know that's a problem too is you can't get all the teachers out there and ignore those students who have questions. But just thank you. Uh we often talk about the the culture that we're

136attempting to build or continue to build is one of uh student being student driven and data informed. And I think it's important to note of the ways that we are looking at using student data. Um just some examples that I would highlight is that each of our buildings now have six goals. Three student goals and three professional practice goals. And two of those are connected to student engagement. And so for example, I know that the high school and middle school both have student engagement goals around talking to students. to elevating the voice of students that we talked to hundreds of students this year. I know uh one elementary school for example has used the student engagement survey to identify some areas like students are feeling often distracted in the classroom and they're talking to students

137about what that means and what the adults can do differently or better. So, we're using data to uh understand, get a real clear picture of where we're at and then form the goals around that. Mentioned the student engagement, but we're in we're in at least the fourth year of having a student engagement survey that the district building and classroom level folks take a look at every year. Chris Mo and I will begin student rounding next week. So again, we'll have, you know, 300 plus students that we'll talk to about math literacy and engagement and preparedness for next. And as Sarah mentioned that we bring some behavior data to the cabinet part of our data systems at least twice a year. And so there are there are systems being put in place to uh really thoughtfully

138and strategically look at data to capture where we're at, celebrate successes, but also fill in the gaps that we see. >> So how do we identify those students that you talked about Sarah that don't seem to fit in or they don't think they fit in? How do we identify them? And then how do we try to find a club or something to to get them involved so they have a reason to, you know, >> feel important. >> So some of what Jason's talking about is the student um engagement survey. However, we [clears throat] we do know of our students. They do self-identify a lot of the time. You'll also notice that students who are typically um having a truency or an attendance issue or are not engaged in classes [clears throat] are the ones that

139also feel that they don't have a sense of belonging in those classes or in that school. I just talked to one yesterday. Um and so it's that engagement piece in the s sense of belonging in that in that building and in those classes. And that's hard um because people always want to feel that they belong somewhere but they just haven't found what their niche is. They haven't found something to propel them. Right? Sometimes a club is the reason a student is there or is the reason a student is performing well, right? Let's say that football is their driver. They want to play football. They have to have a certain GPA. They need to be able to do that, right? But then on the off seasonason, Dan, how are we continuing to keep our students engaged

140when football isn't, you know, being played? And so there's those pieces of that sense of belonging, which has been a huge focus of all of the administrators and the teams. How are we creating that? How are we creating that culture in our buildings? It's an ongoing process. It's not going to be perfect, right? Nothing will be perfect, but we do want to engage our our students and our families in that conversation moving forward and how we can create that sense of belonging because when students feel they belong and they feel that they um have purpose, we know that they are far more engaged and we also know that our disciplinary issues drop. >> Well, is there something that we can do to help with that process? >> Great question. Yeah, I I >> great question.

141>> So, [clears throat] I don't this is a non-answer, so I'm just going to put that out there right now. This won't answer your question at all. Uh, but a lot of the work that, you know, the secondary schools with with AVID strategies, you know, something that's been an investment of this district for six or seven years now, um, the relational capacity component that's really in a lot of like the lifeblood of Abbott. It it's getting kids comfortable with each other. It's getting kids comfortable with taking academic risks. That's the whole purpose of it in a classroom. So like it's a lot to get a 13 or 14-year-old to raise their hand, not know if they really have the right answer in front of 25 other kids and to feel like there's a brave environment

142for them to be able to do that. And so sometimes some of those like relational capacity strategies come from time to time a little bit at the expense of content in the class, but in the end it's it's meant to build a deeper connection with those students, with each other, with the teacher. And then at that point, hopefully the teacher is able to identify like here's a student that might need a little bit more of a arm around and just like I'm going to help this student to feel a little bit more successful here in this environment. And so like that I promised you it wasn't going to answer your question, right? like that is how we look at like the importance of that like relationship building right at the beginning of classes you know

143from time to time checking in and having students be able to kind of share with their experiences to be academically and socially brave in that environment. Um so we've appreciated the the support with some of the avid work in the district over the last few years for sure. And I I I'm carrying this because it's because it's just uh you know when Leanne uh did that presentation, I've been sharing it with a number of people. >> Is it also though in the in the high school or not? Oh, it is. Okay. Because I I know [clears throat] this was for middle. >> There's two two things. Okay. Really quickly. There's an AVID elective that kids are in the AVID elective, but there's also a buildingwide like expectations around best practices with Abbott. And so like

1446 612 every student should be being exposed to those types of things. Um and uh yeah, we have our Abbott uh region I call her regional director. I don't know what her official >> district director >> district well like Karen Sweeney will be coming in Thursday and like taking a tour of the high school giving feedback on how like that building is doing how our building is doing around those strategies. So yeah, >> as far as next steps, I know we've talked about administrative guidelines uh for the bullying piece. I obviously that would likely come out of a combination of ed services andor policy. Um, I just want to know how the committee would like us to move forward or if we're comfortable with this discussion and there are no necessary next steps from it.

145>> I mean, I know one thing that I would like to see is like we talked about earlier, putting together like a a guide for families to address these things. I think that would be relevant for administrative guidelines um or at least have on the administrative guidelines some kind of direction to provide that. um in in instances when that comes up because that will simplify the process quite a bit. >> And then um you know potentially an action item that would come out of this would be >> [clears throat] >> uh moving the placement of the form that we do currently have. Yeah. >> Um about that perhaps. Um [clears throat] those are the two things that I would think but you guys are obviously you are doing a lot >> to address these topics.

146Um it's more about communication. It's about having parents be involved and the first step to that is parents understanding how much they really can be involved. And I think a lot of people feel that they can't because of a number of I suppose you could call it wider cultural factors. People feel like they have a lack of agency. You talked [clears throat] earlier about students not feeling like they had a purpose in school and I think that's a very good way to describe it. But I think it extends out um to families and feeling like they have a purpose or a place in their child's education in many cases which is one of the things that you know I hope we can get back on track in the next uh in the next year or

147so. And not that you guys haven't worked or tried to involve people but I think that I think there are ways that we can still improve that and that'll be really helpful. You also talked about having a QR code or something and maybe a newsletter. Having it on the newslet of that information and I would also add the um the speak out one as well on that. I mean you could have just a spot where stay [snorts] up there. [clears throat] >> So Linda >> I don't feel we need a subcommittee to go any further. So no. >> So policy committee working on the script guidelines. Diola had a pretty good >> Yeah. We can send it to send it to policy then and we'll talk about it. I'll write some stuff down for the

148the guide to gathering data for parents and stuff. I'll bring that to policy. >> All right. Okay. >> Okay. Uh we're ready to go to director. >> All right. Director update. And I really do have just one topic on our director update. And uh I invited Desha Kyler, our district reading specialist, and uh literacy coach at Webster and 4K to help share a little bit about this information. And then I also know that uh Lori Hoffman had shared some information [clears throat] about uh the Mississippi Miracle as well so that we can discuss after uh Dasha highlights some of our data. So Dasha, I'll turn it over to you if you're ready. >> All right. So um what you can see on the screen and also what's sent out is just our fall Ames web

149data. If you remember the Ames web plus screener is the required early literacy assessment under act 20 that we must give to all students kindergarten through third grade 4K as well. The 4K fall assessment is not listed there because it's very insignificant at this point in time. You can see there the fall um percentages of students that um needed reading plans this year versus last winter as well as our first administration which was winter of last year. Um you can probably see a trend there of decrease of students needing those reading plans. Um there's a couple reasons for that. [laughter] Um first um students are just becoming more familiar with those testing procedures. So fragile readers um actually do better the more they kind of see the same kind of assessment pieces. So they're a

150little more familiar with that. Um we had also a change in um some of the testing procedures. You probably see the biggest decrease there is for our first graders. um they [clears throat] are actually 26% less than they were in the winter needing reading plans. And part of that is um last year the interpretation of the law of the law was students were being identified for that reading plan based on just an oral reading fluency measure which is when you give kids a [clears throat] passage and they just have to read out loud for a minute and you count how many words they get correct. um in the fall assessment or in the Ames web um assessment this year and going f uh forward um it's a composite score. So it's multiple subtests put together

151to get that score for first graders because they really felt like that's an unfair measure just to ask them to read for a minute and to decide if that means they're a proficient reader. Especially when you're coming into the fall of first grade. um that's a difficult um [clears throat] measure to actually make recommendations on. And then uh finally, the biggest thing that maybe you've heard of if you've been following Act 20 is Ames Web Plus and Pearson, the company that owns Ames Web went under a reorming process last spring into the summer. Um it's not uncommon for testing agencies to do that. uh we went under that when we had Star by Renaissance. And so what they do is then they nationally reorm, meaning they take a look and say, okay, how are kids

152um across the nation typically performing on this assessment? And with the Ames Webb reorming process, those cut scores did drop from what they were in the spring. So when you talk about the norming or the normalization process that is the weighing of different questions um essentially assigning a different point value to each question right based on what that question tests correct >> in this case they're looking at um how many how many students how are students across the country doing on this particular measure. So like if they give like a kindergartener a whole bunch of, you know, um letters and they have to name them, they look and see how many um letters can they name in a minute typically if in in the fall and then they kind of assign a percentile to it.

153So um based on what those raw scores were were like five might be the 25th percentile and 10 might be what the 50th percentile will be. And so it's a process of figuring out what what what do raw scores mean and how can we use them for comparity. >> Yeah. >> Great. >> This seems I I mean I want to be optimistic. I I really I really believe that um some of the things that we're doing is is benefiting the kids, but this doesn't seem to be helpful when when something is done when it comes to statistics that to shift everything. >> Um it doesn't really give me a good uh take on on our proficiencies when we compare it to a a backsliding national norm. And this is this is a struggle I have

154and it's not with you. You're just repair you're just reporting the the the data. Um I just um >> and you are not that's where all of us around the state who work in the field of reading are like >> how can we now really use this data compared to last year's data you know as we're trying to figure out how to use Ames web now we have really no prior experience with it because you've reset the bar and a lot of us are not sure what that bar really means anymore. um with my staff in particular, we have talked a lot about compliance versus commitment. So at 20 says to be compliant, we have to be concerned about that bottom 25%. But we are really committed to all of our kids reading at grade

155level. So, in our building, we're looking at that. Anyone reading below like nationally the 40th percentile, we want to be concerned about because we're really not sure how how will these new numbers shake out come spring on forward, right? Because, you know, we don't know right now. Um, so we've talked a lot about that that, you know, just because you're not the 25th percentile doesn't mean you're ready to be a leader yet quite yet. I would emphasize what you said and I think that as Deja said across the state there is frustration with that as well. Um it it feels like we literally just gave this assessment and then the target moved. Um and to Desha's point I think it's one data point. We talk a lot about triangulating our data. This is one data

156point that we're using. Um, and in that column where it says percent needing reading plans, really we're literally saying in that column that's percent of our kids under the 25th percentile. That does not mean that's the percent of the kids who are receiving extra support necessarily either in the classroom or with a reading teacher or with one of our reading core uh teachers as well. Um, [clears throat] and it is like you said one data point in time. I will look forward like we saw between our winter assessment in 2025 to our spring assessment we saw a decrease in the number of students needing a reading plan. My hope is that now when we give this again in the winter of 2026 that we'll see another decrease in the number of students needing reading plans.

157Um the norm does adjust as the year goes on. So like the expectation in winter will be higher than it was in the fall. So the hope is that we're like gaining momentum and like we're increasing over time. So >> we probably feel exactly the same way as you do about changing of the norm. >> And I'll be honest with you, when Desha and I were speaking over the summer, she was like, I cannot even believe that this is the oral reading fluency percentile in second grade. Um, and I can't believe that that changed that much. And I think that that's kind of the the sentiment across the state as well. >> Okay. I will also say that as Jason spoke to earlier, our elementary schools have um focused goals around reading and a lot

158of them are using this data piece um and revisiting it more often than just in the fall, winter, and spring. Um I know for instance any student who's on a reading plan, we have to do that weekly. So, we're taking a look weekly at what their oral reading fluency is and like tracking that to see if we're making growth. And I know at least one building, probably more have set goals where our staff are looking monthly at uh some pieces of the as web to see are we making the growth that we hope to be making with the new literacy curriculum as well. So this is certainly just one point in time um and we are definitely trying to learn and understand how we can apply that to our practice. >> So uh and I

159I think you guys are doing great with what you've got here. Uh, I think that it's pretty difficult because right now what I see going on at a state level and at the state level across the nation is a lot of states are trying to get in on what happened in Mississippi and Louisiana. They're saying, "Whoa, they really did something right kindergarten through third grade. Let's hop on that. We all need the same thing." And I think that's good that they're doing that because what happened in Mississippi and Louisiana was incredible. >> [clears throat] >> But I think that as states implement it, there's going to be variances that are going to affect the actual quality of outcome. And that's what I've perceived at least on in certain regards in Wisconsin. I think that there

160are certain things that probably will affect will will impact the effectiveness of uh implementing the science of reading here. So, I guess what I would want to ask you guys going forward, and this is a little bit more of an action item, uh, sort of thing is what tools do you perceive the district needing in order to emulate what happened in Mississippi most effectively? And I'm not assuming that you would have an answer to that. That's a huge question. Um, but if you guys can provide us with some feedback on that, I know that we have people on the board who do talk with legislators and this is one of the areas where we could talk to legislators about the means by which we could arrive at that. So, um, one of the, as we

161were just talking about as web, although as web might be a good resource in the future, they're trying to fine-tune it at the state level so that they can get the information that they want. I think that we should be focusing on our district and making sure our district does well, which means that we should be looking for a means of evaluating on our own terms, not just totally trusting the state process that they are going to be refining. So, if you guys can find another testing program that is outside of Ames Webb that you think really thoroughly evaluates that and you can bring that to us, that would be something that'd be really useful for us to try to help you guys incorporate. Um I think it looks like from what you're showing me

162that Ames Webb does [clears throat] testing three times a year. It does not do it once a year or is it only once a year per group? >> So for act 20 the requirement is three times a year. We can set up some and when inside as you can only do that kind of benchmark testing three times a year but what we can do is set up progress monitoring up to the even up to daily if you wanted to. Um, sure. >> So, we have done that with a lot of our students who were concerned about um, and we're trying some of that even on the math side in some of the buildings. >> Excellent. >> So, that should be helpful data as well. >> Okay. Because I was getting mixed information about how frequently

163Ames Web is conducted. So, I'm glad to hear that they are doing it three times a year as they're as as they are supposed to. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> and then uh Yeah. So, so let us know what you guys would want to see there. I'm sorry not to speak for all of the other members of the committee, but I've been I've been thinking about this for a while. I think that giving us some of that feedback would be really useful. Um, and uh see seeing where we can go from from that point onward. >> I appreciate that. And I think that that is sorry what Lori was sort of looking for is like what pieces of advocacy >> can we as our district reach out for as we're looking to that. So I

164un as I understood it um uh some states uh such as Mississippi and Louisiana are [clears throat] testing children on a regular basis. We're talking like on a weekly basis. Ames Web is the state's re um assessment piece when it comes to getting to know where our kids are at. Uh I feel awfully like somebody changed the gold post in the middle of the game here, but um I one of the uh comments that I heard was well we we don't necessarily need to use Ames web as a um benchmark. We can use a similar benchmark that those other states are using to test on a weekly basis to understand where kids are at and and and then retach or focus on strategies that we need to focus on to get them along the way.

165That testing piece is essential in being able to make sure that we bring those kids along. So, uh, we don't necessarily need to use and put a heavy stock in as web, but we can use other assessment pieces as other states are doing and and seeing if we can utilize those tools. Uh, and if if that's the case, then maybe we we see what kind of investment um into that particular program we need to do. Yeah. >> And we in part of that we do do some weekly progress monitoring some of it with Ames web but also >> especially with our lower readers um that kind of tool isn't sensitive enough to their growth. Sure. >> So we have a whole kind of library of diagnostic tools that we use as well. Yeah. And so

166we can administer that diagnostic because it's usually not computer- based um you know every day in some cases just checking. Think about a kindergartener who's trying to learn their letter sounds right now. what they're doing in as web sometimes may not pick up on those subtle changes from week to week but by doing kind of one of our diagnostics we can be like oh they rec they know G from J this week where last week they didn't they confuse those two so we are using some of those kind of measures those kind of measures help us drive our instruction a little bit better than some of the things we're seeing in >> yeah um and I I I appreciate that I think what we're getting at is that the tools that uh Mississippi, Louisiana are

167utilizing for their literacy that's actually propelled them >> forward was a little bit more uh more aggressive in that in in their approach to u to those changes. And it and it's like undeniable the level of change that that's occurred um in those states. Uh and I think what I'm hearing from other board members is that they're they're desiring to go in that direction. Uh and uh while really doing a deep dive with um administration here on what it would take to get us to that point so that they can p um pursue resources andor grants to help us get there as a district as well. Um I I think uh I think that's a a lofty goal and I I think that uh I admire individuals who want to um pursue th that that

168level of change. One area that I feel like um I would be remiss in not mentioning is that we are um incredibly lucky that we receive uh title one funding through the district which is a federal funding and that's what we use to employ uh many of the reading teachers in our buildings. Um [clears throat] as a district I just looked this up we receive $612,000 a year. Um, and with of that 125% or $125,000 goes to our private schools because it's title one federally funded. We do work with our private schools on that. It's a piece that I have heard over the last year may potentially not be funded at that level or may not uh exist in the future. And so I feel like that's one area that would be ripe for advocating

169that we continue that. And I um I don't want to speak for the private schools, but I imagine that they would be interested in us being able to maintain that as well. Another area that we uh are incredibly lucky in our district to be able to receive is uh reading core tutors um which is through I believe it's through Americaore and we've worked with the Greater Watertown Community Health Foundation to get that in our buildings that um that reading core uh those reading core tutors are trained um very well trained on science of reading techniques and that was predated act 20 um and so that's another area that um we've been assured will continue through this school year um but would be a concern if we were to be losing that funding because those um

170people are incredibly helpful when we're implementing those reading interventions to catch kids up. So that's two areas right off the top of my head. Um, the other thing that I've been thinking a lot about is that summer piece and how can we attract uh our kids to come and our teachers to come to be able to use that summer time, those 20 summer school days to um at least maintain so we're not experiencing summer reading loss, but also potentially boost them as well. Um, I appreciate the point about assessment. I think that we always want to ensure that whatever assessment that we're using um is useful in our instruction. Um so not to just continuously assess for the sake of assessment, but ensure that we're using that data in driving our instruction. >> Sure. Um,

171one thing that I was thinking about is that there's a really comprehensive outline of what we're doing with assessment on our website. And it's not something I've necessarily shared with the board before, but it has links to the diagnostic assessments that Desha is talking about that that might be a real useful thing for the board to take a look at as well. Um, so those are all pieces that we reflect upon. Um, yeah, in full transparency, the state adopted Ames Webb or required to do ASW Webb. We've put a lot of time, effort, and energy in uh administering Ames Web. Um and appreciate the support out of Jason's office with that as well. Um but always thinking about what is going to be provide us the data that we need to be able to make

172the decisions that we need to in classrooms. I guess I I guess uh I think I'd imagine what some people envision is to be able to uh take the Ames web and just you know data and blow it out of the park someday and and everybody looks and scratches their head is how did that happen? And some of this happens to be more of a cultural shift within our own community where where it's not just um where it's not just you know what happens in the classroom but also supports reading and literacy outside of that communitywise within uh so that parents have the resources that they can that they need to understand phonics and and uh be actively involved in their child's reading. So th this is such a this is such a lofty um

173undertaking, but I like again I admire people who you feel passionate enough to try to take that on. So um I I I I do hope that the conversation continues. Um, and I don't know if this this goes to um a board level strate strategic discussion or whether or not we just bring it back. Um, but there's there's definitely a lot of conversation that needs to surround this particular topic. U anyway, you >> I was wondering is are are we fully staffed right now with the tutors with the reading tutors? [clears throat] I believe or do you feel there's >> well fully staffed and could we take more? Two different questions. [laughter] >> We do I do believe we did staff every build all our current open positions. Yeah, that's >> that's what we have.

174How many do we have in the buildings that we have waiting in? I don't know that off the top of my head. >> Uh I think we have six total in the district. >> So two at Douglas, two at Chur, two at Webster. >> Nope. I think there's three at Douglas this year. >> Okay, I can look into that. two at Webster and one at Shur. Okay. >> Um I I think all six of them are only part-time. I do not believe we have any one fulltime. >> Yeah. >> Um so with Reading Core, when you want to become a Reading Core tutor, um we make an agreement with Reading Core of what we need and they then can find people to um fill those needs. So you can have a full-time person who's here

175like 8 to three. You can have a 25 um hour per week person which is part-time and then they even offer a reduced part-time at 18 hours per week and then they set up your siphons and your hours and all of that based on um what what you're looking for as a district and also what the tutors can provide then. So I think we are all at 25 hours. >> I will I will figure out might be a fulltime one at Douglas. I'm not I'm not too sure on that, but I'll I'll dig into that. Um I'm sorry answers off the top of my head. >> Yeah. Uh I have a couple questions. Um the the Mississippi miracle really was because they went phonax heavy. >> Isn't a HM already doing that? I mean, we

176don't need to duplicate, >> right, >> what we're already trying to do. Uh, and I would say that is our focus with our implementation this year is really making sure our teachers are grounded in that phonics instruction, what they call foundational skills as part of the program and making sure that that instruction lives up to fidelity is doing what it's supposed to be doing. We're monitoring that as well to make sure, you know, like, oops, there was a little hole here. We got to fill it. Um, so we're looking definitely at that. We have a couple years ago started moving um our reading interventions to much more of a phonics-based approach. Um as we move forward with the um the snowball effect of app 20, looking at what can we do with our fourth and

177fifth graders in a phonics-based reading approach for intervention is going to be um something else that we may need some materials for. uh just because if they haven't been successful with what we were doing K3 in phonics, maybe we need to look at what we're doing, you know, differently for an intervention in four or five. >> And I know that uh one of the two main reasons why the people I know who are homeschooling was because we weren't teaching phonics and that's what they wanted to do with with their home school. The other question I have and I'll get to you guys. Um, could we employ volunteers like we used to have in uh tutoring and reading the kids and so forth? >> Absolutely. >> Okay. >> We just have to figure out how to

178make that happen again and having consistent tutors. You know, there's part of that. >> It used to fall to you. I understand. >> [laughter] >> But um but yeah, you know, definitely, you know, someone would knock on our door and say, "Hey, I'm available four days a week for an hour a day." >> That's not happening. >> We'll put a flyer out, but you know, we Yes. Come on in. We'll train you. We'll give you kids to work with. Definitely. >> And and uh Great. So, so when it came to HM and uh there's I'm [clears throat] just I'm just paraphrasing some of the concerns that I've heard. Um so this isn't directly coming from me, but um when it comes to HMH and Act 20, some of the concern is that it's a nice

179start, but it tries to water down the science of breeding to the point where it's almost ineffective. Um, I appreciate your comment about being phonics more phonics heavy. I think that's kind of I that's kind of the direction that this this goes. is it it it's it's supplementing, you know, uh some of the curriculum that perhaps maybe I don't know, that's probably not the right wording, but to provide more interventions uh in in regard to the science of reading that HMH and act 20 doesn't go far enough to address if I if if I understand. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, that is uh that is what I was going to bring up as well is although I do certainly think from my uh from my research into HMH through the books that Jenny provided that

180they are providing explicit phonics instruction. There is certainly a there's still a balanced literacy or whole language approach. And [clears throat] to me at least that's concerning because I think that at an early age you need to be focusing on phonics for literacy. As kids get older we can talk about uh you know at a middle school or a high school level what kind of supports we're providing because this is the other side of what happens in Mississippi and Louisiana is they provide that support at the early level which is fantastic but at later at older grade levels they stop providing those supports and they fall off. And I went down a really fun rabbit hole. There's a very interesting study called They Don't Read Very Well, where they, it wasn't in those states, but

181they took some colleges in Kansas, they took literary majors, English majors, and they had them read uh the opening paragraphs from a Charles Dickens book, and they said, "Hey, just tell us what this means." And they literally didn't know what any of the words meant in this in Bleak House by Charles Dickens. And I think that talking about some of the other things that you do once you get past phonics, you know how to use phonics to analyze a word and look at the etmology and some of those other practices are important. But at an early age, we need to focus on phonics as much as possible. We need to minimize the concept of whole language or the idea of we talked about this as well um a few months ago in July when we

182went to Kentucky. we can't prioritize uh the relatability or the relevancy of material material should it should be about the actual science of reading and so that's still something that I see in HMH quite heavily is a at least a a significant focus maybe not a primary focus but a significant focus on being [clears throat] uh relevant culturally relevant and and other things like that. So how we are ensuring that we stay focused on phonics I think is important there. >> Thank you. [clears throat] >> Are we good? >> I think so. I will um gather up the information about reading core tutors and send over the uh diagnostic assessment and the assessment framework that DESA has put together so that we have a chance to take a look at that. >> [clears throat] >>

183And then we will continue to brainstorm advocacy pieces that we can use um at the state and federal level to continue to focus on that here. >> Okay. [clears throat] So, >> all right. >> Actually, >> I say list of things to do. So, I try to prepopulate this. I heard that we will be moving forward with the course book uh propos proposal changes at the November full board meeting. [clears throat] Also, the elementary math uh course guides as well. the administrative guidelines for bullying. We'll move to the policy committee. Um and then uh I have an update about act what we'll plan to do for the summer reading proposal for act 20 to ed services when that's available. I'm going to look into the LA piece about the scholarship committee to see if that

184is applicable to the scholarship committee. um update the bullying where the bullying form is on the website to make that more prominent and include that potentially in the newsletter along with the speak up speak out uh link. Um, and then sharing the assessment framework as well as the reading core tutor numbers. And of course, when I go through my minutes, um, I'll see if there are things to add that maybe I missed. uh did we want to pursue what Craig had brought up and you had brought up about uh uh parochial or marinath opportunities >> I'll add that to the act 20 summer >> okay >> um >> okay perfect >> all right any future agenda items Um just I outlined what we're tentatively planning for December ed services because that will be here again

185before we know it. Um the cell phone update from October ed services there was a slight development because the governor did sign into law on Friday um some updates about cell phone use in schools. So we'll take a closer look at what that actually means preliminarily. I think our discussion was a little bit like it follows kind of what the high school is doing. were not during academic times but not necessarily banning from bell to bell but we'll be looking into that. I know we're planning a teacher survey as well uh for December ed services. Um the elementary course guides will be bringing a truency and attendance update from Sarah and the principles and then we would have any middle school course approvals at that time or course changes. Um >> we'll have a lot

186of guests at the December ed services. very popular. Everybody wants to come. [laughter] >> It'll be great. Whole house, get here early to reserve your seat. >> Can Can we fit in a discussion about recruiting volunteers? >> Okay. And if things come up between now, we don't have to set what the December agenda is right now, but I just want to make sure it's on our radar because it it's like December 2nd or something. December 2nd. Exactly. Um, so yeah, if there are other things that come up between now and then, we can certainly add them, but I just wanted to make sure that was on everyone's radar. >> All right, motion to adjurnn. >> So move. >> Second. >> Thank you. So we are adjourned at 10:04. >> Thank you very much. >> Yeah.

187They thank you.