001Uh I call this meeting a special board meeting uh for the purpose of reviewing uh the survey for from school perceptions to order. Would you please join me with the pledge of >> allegiance to the flag United States of America to the republic one nation indivisible here. >> Here >> Julie >> here. >> David Candy >> here. >> Lorie Cton >> here. >> Linda Overberg here. >> Thank you. So, I will go ahead and perhaps turn it over to Jared as we welcome the uh school perceptions team. >> Absolutely. Um uh when we last met uh we we talked through um uh some possible scenarios that you uh asked me to um work with school perceptions to maybe look at and design a survey around. I've had a number of meetings uh with school perceptions
002uh P um Sarah Kelly who I believe is online here tonight as well. Um, we're going to be presenting that to you, that information to you. Um, and um, I know that, uh, school perceptions, uh, the the paper from school perceptions, um, have a lot of information for you. Uh, they did a really good draft so far. Um, there were some things that, um, made some of our decision- making a little difficult. So he's going to ask uh they're going to ask for some clarification from you and then also maybe give you some guidance as to how we can get the best data. Um one of you asked the question at the last meeting and you wanted me to bring you the information. You said well how successful are they? Um and then I quickly
003responded with uh first of all I that's valid question but secondly um not only is the how successful are they but some of the success in this is not do we get to a successful referendum. So the success in it is how can we clearly communicate with our our people, right? And how can we clearly get information back? That's a win whether or not we're to the we get to the end goal, which is what we really want. Um but their response to me uh was a little jaw-dropping. uh they said when school districts work with us right and when we listen and we come up with a clear survey we have been 94% effective in uh leading the board to a resolution that has success. Okay. So that that's pretty good but that means
004you have to really listen and you have to really come up with a clear survey that they believe is also very clear right for us to get that kind of information out. Okay. So, um, that that is some information that I'd share with you. Um, so, um, Derek, I guess what I will do is I'll turn it over to you and you can introduce yourself again and the team since you're the most familiar face from school perceptions here tonight. >> Oh, we can't hear you. >> Oh, no. See, this is why I show up in person because these I'm sorry that I can't be with you in person uh today. my uh four-year-old daughter who has just started junior kindergarten uh where I live. I got to supervise supervise her tonight, which means don't tell
005anybody that she's watching Spidey and his friends uh as we speak. >> Um thanks for having me back. I just want to echo some of the stuff uh that Jared said by way of uh introduction to this whole process. And I want to let my colleague Scott Gerard after me introduce himself and uh spell out some of the details that we have for you tonight. Uh he is our resident expert on the community survey pre-referendum planning uh side of things. You know me of course from staff, student and parent survey uh work that uh I did for the district in the uh spring and am setting up uh again for next spring. So following what uh Jared said, the role that we play as a company with respect to communities in general and with respect
006to your community, we understand that school boards everywhere are acting in the best interests of their community. And for that reason, they need the community to give them input into what their priorities are uh and what they're willing to support. And our job is to make that information, make it as easy as possible for them to give you that input to help you plan. So that's what success is for us. When Jared is setting the 94% figure, it is basically we are able to from these community surveys uh estimate for school boards, you know, your community given the options that are in front of them, your community indicates that if you go forward with say option B, there is this referendum is likely to pass. And 94% of the time we are right about that.
007That's that's what that 94% uh rate refers to. Um, so I wanted to to sort of frame up the conversation tonight that way. We we do have some feedback for the board to consider, but every piece of feedback that we have is geared towards how can we make the decision points that the community faces as clear to folks as possible so that they can give you information that you can rely upon as you go forward deciding what the best thing to do for the district is and as you engage them in conversations going forward. So, let me uh turn it over to Scott to introduce himself and uh show you what we've what we've got right now for a draft to solicit your input on that. >> Thank you, Derek. And great job teing teeing
008up the conversation. Um nice to meet you all. My name is Scott Sherard. I'm a project manager here at school perceptions. And I'm actually gonna start by sharing a little dive in a little more on to what Derek was talking about there in related to our community survey process, the goals of it, why the process uh has proven effective um and the benefits that we believe uh come from it beyond just good data, which is of course a very important benefit. Um so are you all seeing my screen at this point? >> Okay, great. Um, so here we are on September 10th. Oh, there goes the slide. So, I wanted to introduce you to your team working on this community survey. Two familiar faces there, myself and Derek. Um the third face, Darren Severs, uh
009had another meeting in person tonight that he had to drive to. So he's unable to be here, but he's a former superintendent in Slinger and uh he actually used school perception surveys, um to help inform his district about what they could and could not get approved in a referendum. Um really valued the data so much so that when he was done being a superintendent, he came to work with us and help other districts. but it's been really good to have him on the team as we've navigated the early drafts of your survey to to give his input as a former superintendent and that perspective um as a practitioner. So, those are the the main folks working on your survey, though we do review it with everyone in our company really. Um we've been doing this
010work uh for nearly 25 years as an independent education research firm. We conducted over three million staff, student, and parent surveys. Of course, Derek has been with you uh to talk about some of those before. We've also helped about 1300 school districts nationwide navigate strategic planning and referendum planning processes. So, uh, a lot of different experiences there. This kind of lays out some of those benefits Derrick was speaking to. So beyond the data, the top thing that we think a community survey does and the benefit that we see is it educates your community members on your needs, the background, how you got here, uh how you came up with your plan, what the plan is, so that they can whether or not they turn the survey in, they're going to be educated on it. And
011that means that down the line when there's further communications about a plan, if there's a referendum, they have a better understanding of what they're being asked about. And that's really important. Uh, additionally, of course, a survey does gather data and so that helps you then make a decision on the back end because you can better understand their educational and financial priorities. You can establish a tax tolerance associated with potential projects. So, how much are they willing to pay for uh additional funding. You can decide if and when a referendum should take place and then some basic overall metrics to to see how your community is feeling about how things are going. The fact is that people are more likely to support a plan if they both understand it and they've had a voice in creating
012it. And so the survey serves both of those purposes by educating your community and them sharing their voice with you. >> Our surveying approach is very inclusive and we because of that education piece, we believe that's really important. Um so we don't advocate random sampling. Some companies do random sampling approaches. We do an inclusive approach where we mail a copy of the survey to every resident in your district. Um, and we believe that's really important because again, it allows everyone to have the opportunity to educate themselves about your needs and your potential solutions to to address those needs as well as the opportunity to have their voice in creating a plan. Uh, no one can come and say, "Well, you didn't ask me." uh because the survey goes to every resident and so you did
013and and that's really important uh so that everyone has the opportunity to have their voice heard if they so choose. So how that works is we actually mail a paper survey to every resident in your district, but on that paper survey is the option for people to respond either online with a unique access survey code, meaning they can only take the survey a single time, or they can fill it out on paper and return it in a business reply envelope. So for folks who want to sit down with a cup of coffee on a weekend morning, they can fill it out in pen and and send it into us. For folks who want to take it online and navigate through it that way, uh that's an option as well. So we really uh keep it
014open for however folks are comfortable. Each survey is highly customized based on your needs and unique situation and and um we've certainly been doing a lot of work to get you the data that uh we think will hopefully help you make decisions. Um and so we've been working to customize your survey and we'll get to that draft momentarily. Before we do, oh, really quick, uh just know that to that 94% uh piece, uh we after completing those 1300 projects, uh we've really the methodology has proven to be highly predictive. And that 94% not only includes um when a plan shows that it would be successful and districts take it to ballot, but if a survey shows that a plan would not be successful and a district takes it to ballot anyway and it is not
015successful, that means the data was correct and it was predictive survey. So when we're speaking to that accuracy, it just means the data is solid when we're able to write a good survey. As we look through the draft tonight, um, we want you to be thinking about big picture survey strategy, not necessarily the draft. We don't want to look at every single word right now. We've still got some time before this survey goes to the printer. What we want to make sure we're doing right now is we've got the right tone and message. Sounds like Watertown, and that it's addressing the questions you need it to address. >> So, our goal length is about 1,400 to,800 words. Um, you'll see right now we're a little above that. So, we'll certainly look certainly be looking for
016every opportunity to cut where we uh to to trim where we can because every 100 words leads to a 1% decline in response rate. And we want to make sure you're hearing from as many members of your community as possible. So, keep that in mind uh as we go through this process later. uh when we're thinking about what to include, we ought to be careful to make sure that folks pay attention to the survey and stick it out. Uh because the average person reads approximately 269 words per minute and they check their phone every four minutes and their phone is designed to keep them checking it for a long time. Uh so we have about 1,60 words before someone gets sucked into their phone. That means we've got to get them understanding why they should
017come back to this survey and finish it. Uh so again really important to to keep people focused and keep it tight where we can. We try to use very simple language that your community can understand uh the concepts. As you all know, school finance is not a simple thing in the state of Wisconsin. Uh and so we have to simplify it as much as possible so that folks can understand what they're being asked. >> Final reminder, we write with you and for you but not to you. we're writing to your community who again is not at these meetings, is not taking part in these conversations every week or every other week. Uh so they need it again to be a little more simple. We want to write it in a way that uh you would
018talk about it if you got asked at the Friday night fish fry or in line at a gas station, you know, what's the deal with this referendum stuff? We want to sum it up the same way you would in line with a someone around town. It can't be a marketing tool. it has to be focused onformational uh pieces of factual information and data gathering. And finally to that word count piece when we're talking about how to trim it, there's some things that you can really you might really want in a survey, but they might fit better in an FAQ. So something that maybe isn't absolutely necessary for someone to give you their thoughts on your plan or your uh potential plan could go in an FAQ that goes on the website that we tease to.
019for folks who want more information. So, it's it's a good way for them to seek it if they so want it. And without further ado, I'm going to bring up your draft. >> Scott, before we get going on the draft, are there any questions about the information you shared to this point? >> Okay, >> thank you, J. >> I'm sorry. what age are would be like what would be the limit of the taking the survey. >> So the survey does ask a question. We have some respondent information on there. Uh and the lowest age one of those includes uh age ranges and the lowest age on there is 18. Uh so no one below 18 but it the the highest range is 65 plus. So, anyone who can vote basically, >> any other questions before
020we dive in? >> Okay. >> All right. So, what we have, what we'll go through tonight is an eight-page survey, uh, which is our typical length. Um, what we have on the first page, the opening letter. And so this is where we look at a very high concept view of the things that folks will be reading about as they page through your survey. So dear families and community members, the Watertown Unified School District needs your input to help address two challenges. One, a lack of funding the district has. And you'll notice throughout the document there's some areas that are highlighted. Those are things that we kind of put in as filler language for now that we think generally fit your situation, but obviously in this case, we'll get the exact deficit number in the case
021of the second bullet there. We'll make sure that those are the the things worth highlighting as far as building challenges go. But highlighter means that we're still going to update that and we know that it needs to be updated. So, if you see highlighted portions as we page through this, uh, just know that that's to keep our attention on it and, uh, Jared's attention on it and P's attention on it so that everyone can make sure we're on the same page. So, the district has a budget deficit this year. This is the third third straight year of a growing deficit. Capital Bold, this is not sustainable. Without additional funding through an operational referendum, we will need to make more cuts to our program, services, and staff. The second challenge, aging facilities. Six of our schools
022were built before 1970 and need significant updates. And again, this is highlighted the second sentence, but the general idea here is we want to highlight a couple of the major challenges those buildings are uh facing. So we put as filler, for example, mechanical systems have exceeded their service life and classroom support areas do not meet today's standards. It's become expensive to heat, maintain, and operate all seven of our school buildings. We are committed to listening to our community to make sure our plans reflect the priorities of our taxpayers. Please take a few minutes to complete this survey. So that's the call to action. We then explained that all feedback will be kept confidential because survey responses are collected by us at school perceptions, an independent education research firm. It's not going to the district can
023page through and know who took uh who said what uh in their response here. >> Below that, this is where folks can understand how to take the survey. So, two ways to take the survey. Again, there's that online option. So, they would navigate to this website and in this blank spot, the printer is going to print an individual unique access code on every single copy of the survey. What that means is that that person, the survey recipient, can access the survey a single time online. We can ensure no one is taking the survey three dozen times to to mess up the data and that's how we ensure the data is reliable. They can also return it to a school office and you all can scan it and send it to us or mail us a
024batch if you get a a significant number or there will be a reply envelope included with their survey and they can mail it directly back to school perceptions and we have some data entry folks who will enter that in to tabulate it below that. And it's highlighted right now but that's just because we wanted to make sure uh to explain it tonight. The survey code can only be used once and because of that in case there's a multi-generational household or two spouses in a single household who both want to take the survey. Folks can obtain additional surveys. They'll have to call the district office. We will provide additional survey copies both in paper as well as additional survey codes to ensure that folks who want to take the survey who didn't get one uh who
025only had one in their household can um get that from the district. Below that, we'll have the survey available online in Spanish. So, folks who uh are traditionally Spanish speakers can go online and click a toggle button uh if necessary to take the survey. We'll print the survey de survey deadline uh in big colorful bold so that folks who are motivated by deadlines know when they need to get uh get in gear. And then below that uh we explain that if folks need additional support, they can contact the district office. And then so they know the survey results aren't just going into a black box and never to be seen again. Uh these results will be reported at a board meeting and available on the district's website. >> We thank them for taking the survey
026and then that uh opening page is signed by Jared and all of you as board members. >> Are there any questions on this uh start to the survey? >> I'm assuming the QR code works as well. Yep. The QR code will take them to this same website where they can enter that individual code. >> Thank you. >> Yep. Absolutely. >> Okay. So, after we've introduced that, we now move on to some financial background. So, we start by explaining to folks that there are two types of referendums Watertown area voters can approve. An operational referendum provides additional money to help pay for daily expenses such as staffing, utilities, and transportation. For some context, so folks have a frame of reference, we explain that Watertown voters rejected this type of referendum in April. A capital referendum, in
027contrast, allows a school district to take out a loan or issue debt to pay for major facility improvements. Again, for context, for voters who have been in the district for a while, the district has not asked voters to support this type of referendum since 2012. So, we set the base so that some of the language they'll see in the future, they they understand what those refer to. We then cover uh the recent property tax mill rate trend uh and we show how it's dropped from 2020 to last school year. and we compare you to your uh conference peers in the Badger Conference and the state average. And as you can see, Watertown has a lower rate than all of your Badger Conference peers and the state average. And then we move on to the financial
028challenges. We start with the state limits the amount of money available to the district from state aid and local property taxes. This funding level used to increase with inflation, but the state ended that in 2009. If that had continued, Watertown would have based on last year's enrollment, $10.9 million in additional funds this year. Uh that number, the per student numbers from WBO and we use your enrollment. If we have the third Friday count uh this year before the survey goes out, we'll update that number. That's why it's highlighted. We'll just make sure we're giving you community, your community, the most recent data. available there. Second bullet point, student enrollment is declining, but not evenly across all grades. Watertown area schools serve approximately 875 fewer students than we did 15 years ago. This is an issue
029because the amount of money we receive is based on the number of students we serve. Next, the district is experiencing increasing costs for transportation, utilities, technology, employee compensation, and student services. At the same time, we are not receiving any additional money in state aid this year. The federal government also reduced the amount of money we are projected to receive this year. And finally, a 2018 voter-approved operational referendum previously provided additional funds to help us balance our budget. However, this bunny expired in 2023. Underneath that list, uh, we kind of put it in context for the state. So, these budget challenges are not unique to Watertown. Most school districts in Wisconsin have pursued an operational referendum to help balance their budgets. In response to these challenges, the district has used savings or the fund balance to
030cover the deficit over the past three years. We have also reduced the annual budget by $1.2 million and plan to reduce by an additional $300,000 next year. Even with these reductions, the budget deficit is projected to grow. This is not sustainable. Without an operational referendum, the district would need to make further budget reductions, resulting in larger classes and fewer programs and services for our students. Then we ask this question here. would you support the district pursuing a smaller operational referendum than the one voters rejected in April? And this serves two purposes. Uh it measures your community's appetite for an operational referendum with no numbers tied to it yet. So, you know, do they support the concept of an operational referendum? It also, pretty importantly, uh folks are more likely to read everything that comes before
031a question. And so it serves as a a good reminder for folks to read every bullet point again before they answer the question where sometimes if there's not a question on the page, they might skim past some of the information. So it serves dual purposes there. Again, making sure they're educated on these challenges as well as getting some data on their general feelings about an operational referendum. Is that uh any questions on that page? Okay. So then we move on to the funding to support operations. So if the community supports us pursuing an operational referendum, the district developed three operational referendum options for feedback. Each option below is less expensive than the one voters rejected in April. So we want to remind folks that you heard them in April uh and you understand that they
032said no to that and you're coming back with lower asks. We've got three options laid out here. First one, if voters support a referendum providing $3 million each year for five years, the district would need to make additional spending reductions to balance the budget, reduce staff and increase class sizes, continue to delay building maintenance, potentially creating expensive future repairs, and move seventh and eighth grades to the high school building, and close three elementary schools. We explain below that list the tax impact of option one. Um, and I know uh Jared and Sarah communicated that there was some conversation about the amount to use for the tax impact. Um, we as a company really like using the $100,000 number because it allows folks to do the math for their own household um because you can just
033multiply it to get to your house's value. So, we we tend to really feel strongly about including that $100,000 number so folks can do the math for themselves based on their own home situation. >> Um, we can come back to that later as we finish up the survey. So option two, if voters support a referendum providing $4.5 million each year for five years, the district would, the pretty similar list to the one above, need to make additional spending reductions, reduce staff, and increase class sizes, continue to delay building maintenance, but in this case, close two elementary schools. So that's the contrast there. And then finally, if voters support a referendum providing $6 million each year for five years, the district would maintain most programs and services and maintain most staffing and class sizes. >> At
034the bottom, we'll ask which operational referendum amount would you support? Uh, and they'll pick which which level they would be willing to support at. And then below that, we have a couple open-ended questions, opportunities for some more uh written feedback for folks who are undecided or would not support any operational referendum. What are the main reasons for that? And then is there any other information you need before making a decision? >> Any questions on that page related to the operational stuff? this one. >> Um, if you scroll back up to option three, >> um, you didn't you didn't say in option three that you're not closing any schools. Is that correct? And why did you not say that? >> Well, we didn't address closing schools or not. Um, because here here's here's what we would
035have to do. We still have to cut $300,000 because we committed to 1.5. We're at 1.2 this year. We know we're going to have to uh consider 300,000 more. We can get there a number of ways. Uh one of them would be maybe to close one elementary, right? One of them may not be that. It may be um using different staffing models, using different programming models. And at this point in time, we don't have a finite solution for that. >> But we're not communicating as clearly what we're going to do, what the public is going to get for their money. We're not communicating that clearly. So, how can they take a survey and have it be accurate? >> Do you want us to list that we would close one elementary building? Because that commits you
036to it if we list it. >> Could you list something like um no need to close any buildings? That's not implying we're committing to closing or not closing. I'm ask don't know that we can say no need because uh um and we we had this discussion a little bit earlier >> depending on um not this banial budget but the next bianial budget that comes through right we don't know what that might come in so I don't want anybody to get the idea that we will never close buildings >> right Jared but we're taking this survey and sending it out based on the information that's available to us right If we're making the survey off of speculation, then we'd have to throw this all out the window because we don't know what's going to happen in
037the next two years and we don't know what's going to happen if the Supreme Court changes hands and they go in and talk about, you know, act 20. Is it act 10? >> So, >> like all of those, but I'm saying I I agree with Lori. >> Do you want to commit that you will not close a building if we get the six million? >> I don't think that I was saying I wanted to commit to that more. There is no need, right? like you're saying in the other two, if you this is the referendum you picked, we now have the need that we have to close three buildings or we have to close two buildings. >> Expressing the community that if they vote for the $6 million five-year referendum, we maintain our programs. We
038maintain our staffing, but there is no immediate need to close any schools. >> I like how you said it that way. No immediate need. Right. Right. That I think we can all commit to. And I'm not saying it needs to be like that, but something at least indicating to the community like in this option. >> I like no immediate need to close a building. >> Yeah. Because otherwise, you know, say they they they vote for 6 million on the basis that they want to keep every one of their community elementary schools and then we close the school. Well, that's just a a betrayal of trust. So we don't want to go there. U so we need to be very clear about that. >> Yes. And and I know that you can only commit to anything
039one year at a time too, right? Um but if you intend to close a building within the next 18 to 24 months, um that's what people would see as immediate need. We can explain anything else 24 months after. Hey, things have changed, right? Um, but if if you're if you say in option three that there's no immediate need, that means within the next 18 to 24 months, we would not close we would not close that bill a building. >> Should we include that time period in there? >> We we've talked about that. >> What do these people think, >> Scott? It it really comes down to what you all are comfortable committing to. I I think to what Jared was just saying. What you put in this survey is is what people will remember. And
040so if you wrote in here will not close a building and then you closed a building, I think folks would get pretty upset and come come back with this. Um, so I think you you just have to be thoughtful about what you're going to be willing to do and willing to consider. I think you want to make sure you have some flexibility because of potential operational decisions that could be necessary down the line. Um, I think immediate need is is probably giving you some good flexibility. Um, I think I, you know, we we elected, we had some of this conversation earlier and kind of leaned against including it at all because again, giving you that flexibility. Um, to respond to whatever budgetary needs come up. But if you feel strongly that you want to contrast
041it with these other options, I think not have an immediate need is probably good language to use. And I'll just say that the the things that I'm hearing from the board are focused on exactly the right things. Want your community to have the best information. You also want to make sure that you are able to deliver on what they think they are voting for. That's those are the key things. >> Can I go ahead? I'm sorry. Well, it would seem to me that as been has been discussed with the clo potential closure of buildings in options one and two to completely ignore it and three would be very attention getting to me in receiving the survey. So, I actually like this proposed wording. I do think it gives us gives us wiggle room. >> It
042gives wiggle room, right? That's wording that I I think would be very supportive of saying, listen, if if we do get this $6 million, yes, in the next 18 to 24 months, we're we don't need to close buildings, but we don't know what the future has to hold for us, right? Uh and we're not going to commit past that. >> And I don't mean to say wiggle to mean like we're trying to get out of something or do something serious, right? But to just do the right thing, put us more. >> But I Yeah. And I've said to you, if if we do get that $6 million loan, you won't need to close a building. >> Can I could I ask about So on both of the previous points, um it says continue to delay
043building maintenance, potentially creating expensive future repairs. Um I think that I'm not sure if the $6 million need is going to address that at all. Right. But if it's not, we should still be clear to the community, especially if we're trying to engage them to see how they feel about a capital referendum, right? We should be very clear in that question and have it say in that in that $6 million referendum, say there's we're we're still going to have to continue to delay. So, under under that bullet point about closing schools, the next thing is to say uh we will continue to delay building maintenance, right? >> Yes. Right. I think we should just >> I think you're right. >> Yeah, I think you're right. >> A little bit of concern about um the the
044language. It says not have immediate need to close a building. Um and it comes down the lines of the last ask. I mean, we've communicated out to the public that we're going to make $1.5 million uh cut over the next several years and the closure of a building, potential closure of a building has no bearing on the on the past referendum to now say we're asking for less money and then saying, "Well, maybe not. to me that that sends mixed messages too. So I I do have an appreciation for the flexibility of saying we still have that $300,000 that we need to to um account for, but we don't know where that's coming from. Um and in a in in some respect um when you have access capacity in your buildings doesn't make sense to
045keep all buildings operational even even if you get a referendum passed. So I I pref I prefer personally to have the flexibility in there. I don't know what the right answer is though. But I think I I'm my point of contention is not about I understand what you're saying, right? Like we've discussed having potentially closed building, but I think if there's going to be four bullet points for the two above, we should address the same topics in the last question. However, we articulate that, it should still be addressed, right? Like, >> yeah, I think they're looking for that. Yeah, I kind of Yeah, >> I don't >> That's nice. >> I don't love exactly what I wrote. >> Okay, roll the dice. Give us the $50 million. >> The the idea there is is sort
046of highlighting that it gives you the flexibility to make these decisions as part of a larger plan instead of you just have to do it because you have to do it. Um, again, I don't love exactly what I wrote, but how do you feel about that idea? >> I personally think it's >> It doesn't say we're closing and it doesn't say we're not closing. It says this does give us time to develop a uh a a plan for the future. Like Julian said, the first two gave us concrete. Okay, close a school, close two schools, right? Um the third one, now we're dodging the question. We need to address this directly or or it's not going to be worth the paper it's written on. >> So you're almost saying we should call the question board
047and give direction. But but I think I think what Craig brought up is a very realistic possibility. Well, I I liked the previous statement that you had in there that said um no no immediate need to close building. Now, you still have, you know, if you lose a roof on one of those buildings, you're going to have to make a decision. >> How about if we said that? If we said no immediate need to close a building and gives the flexibility to create a long-term facilities plan, >> right? >> Or we could do no immediate need to close a building for operational expense purposes or something. There you go. >> So you imply that we won't have to close a building because we don't have the funds to support that building, right? like if we
048need to for strategic planning reasons, we're not putting oursel in a box there. I I'm just wondering how how school perception feels about that. Like there's no immediate need to close any buildings for operational expense shortfall purposes or however it would be most precisely delivered. Does that make sense? something like have no immediate need to close a building to balance our budget. >> That's easier said, right? >> Or easier read, I should say. >> It is easier read. >> Yeah. >> Basically, what the the thing to keep in mind throughout this entire discussion is that we're trying to make it as possible. Well, we're trying to make it we're trying to make it as easy as possible for the community to tell you what they're willing to support and and what they're not. A surve
049an eight-page survey isn't going to be able to lay out uh a list of definitive promises uh that that in the level of detail that you will be able to do in the run-up to any referendum decision that you have. So, this is a preview of coming attractions. You do just like you coming attractions is perhaps the wrong word. Uh you do as as you are concerned with want to avoid essentially giving people the wrong information leading to believe that some things will be possible when they really won't be or leading them to believe that some decisions will be constrained when they really won't be. But in terms of getting down to very specific things, we want to keep it a little bit above that so that people understand that basically $6 million allows the
050district to continue doing what it's doing this year for the next five if that's what the district wants to do. That period and the other two force certain changes. I think the wording at the fourth bullet point at this point does exactly what I think most of us would are comfortable. What are you comfortable with that Craig? That um it doesn't use the word flexibility, but it's certainly implied in there. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think it's I think it's a better a better choice. I >> I just want to limit us. I don't want to box us into a s circumstance that you know one way or another >> that's the balance. >> Yeah, that wording separates any decision you might make about building closure from the operational needs of the budget. Yeah. >> What
051are you gonna say, Dave? >> Do we have with this? Do we have enough money to take care of those number three issues in buildings >> in none of these does it address that information. >> That's what I thought. That's what I thought. So that that just is still >> this is just operations working through the dayto day. >> That's that's still hanging out there to me. Right. This is addressing these three options are addressing need one. Right? And I will tell you it was really easy to um fairly clearly lay out these three for the first issue we have. We're going to get into the second issue. And once you put two issues into one survey, it gets convoluted pretty quickly. >> Yeah. That's what happened last time, >> right? And so um I
052will have uh you know Scott work you through that piece. Yeah, >> that might be a concern of mine is that if these how how big of a need is this that it has to be done no matter what. >> Well, um I think everybody on the board knows the first and most important thing is making sure that we can keep our doors open and uh provide good uh education for for all of our students and all that. Right? If we don't pass an operational referendum, we're going to be in trouble. >> Yeah, I'm not saying I know the difference. I know you have to do one or the other, but I just wonder what's going to happen to the building. >> I will say that the worst thing that could uh happen that's still
053beneficial. Okay. So, it's weird to say that it's it's it's beneficial, but it's the worst of the beneficial is that we have a question that says something along the lines of, "Would you approve $30 million to do basic fixes on all of our buildings, right? Because it it's beneficial in that all of our buildings will be fixed, but we won't be able to operate them, right? we that we you know it doesn't >> what you're saying is and I understand that what you're saying is that we're not touching any of those things because we're only doing operational things even though they may need fixing it's not going to even though it's a level three it's not going to need it >> I I think one of the things that um we talked about is addressing
054the the most important thing first and then through this survey still getting important information to say how within the next 18 to 24 months can we uh come back to you with the second need you know uh and what that's going to look >> like we and and um we still need really good information back from you to help us start that design process or that that planning process. It might be helpful if we go through the next two pages. And I don't mean to cut you off, Jared, but I I don't want you to have to explain our survey for us um either. Yeah. I do think the next two pages will help lay out where this >> I will leave it to professionals. >> Um layout. Yeah. So, >> we move on from
055the operational and there's a blank page there. And now we move to the facility side. And so, the first page on the facility side is laying out the facility challenges. Again, you'll notice some highlighting on this page. Oh, Derek, I see you with a finger raised. >> I'm sorry. I'm still looking at the same page I was looking at. Have you scrolled down or No, >> I did. I don't know why it's not live updating. Um, let me stop presenting and reshare it. >> Okay. >> Sorry. Thank you for letting me know. And >> boom. >> All right, there we go. And we'll see if it scrolls with me this time. Um, so we move on from the operational and transition to the facility. The first thing we want to do is lay out the
056challenges. So again, you're going to see a lot of highlighting on this page. That's because we we looked through your facility study, tried to take some of the highlights, but we're going to trust Jared. We're going to trust the experts at P uh that have really dug into your facilities to help us make sure we're highlighting the right challenges that your buildings are facing, but this is an overview and example of what the page will look like, perhaps with some different challenges and projects on there. But we explained that the district worked with an outside firm to evaluate the condition of our buildings and grounds. This study identified the following issues. We'll have a couple higher up categories like aging infrastructure, inadequate safety, security, and accessibility, and outdated classrooms, and support spaces. Each with a
057few bullets below them, explaining more about the challenges within that category. After that, we explained that while the district budgets for some small annual maintenance every year, however, addressing the challenges above requires significant projects that are too expensive to pay for through our annual budget. Therefore, the district would need to ask for voter voter approval of a capital referendum to pay for them. So, we refer back to that capital referendum explanation we mentioned earlier. So, folks know we're talking about a different thing than the operational. We've got some space for comments, suggestions, and questions. And then this is the page where I think we we'll we'll have to really focus the discussion and we'll get to what you were asking about. So, we talked a lot in our team. We talked a lot with Jared.
058We look talked a lot with P. We looked at the the facility stuff and what we thought was a good survey focus to go along with the operational ask here where you're getting specific data about a potential April ballot measure is to do what we would call a planning approach. You're kind of letting your community know what some of some of the decisions that are ahead of them are, where the district is at in its thinking, and asking them to offer you feedback now, so that when you come to them with a potential actual referendum plan, you're able to incorporate their feedback in that plan as you create it. So, what we say on this page is we call it future facility planning because it's looking ahead. And we explained that while the district could
059update all seven buildings and continue to operate them, projections show enrollment will continue to decline. This means we will have unused space in our buildings because it is not possible to selectively heat and maintain portions of the buildings. Money would be spent on areas that are either not used or are underutilized. Reducing the number of schools would make it easier to balance class sizes. It would also reduce the number of teachers that have to work in more than one school and make it more efficient for those that do as they would have fewer buildings to travel to. This will result in teachers spending more time with students and reduce travel expenses. Therefore, the district believes that now or in the future, the most responsible use of taxpayer dollars is to consolidate our schools into fewer
060buildings. This will require a referendum in the next 18 to 24 months. And then we have an open-ended question. As the district continues to plan for our facilities, what comments, questions, or suggestions would you like to share with us? So, this sort of teases the idea of a future capital referendum. Acknowledges that consolidation, whether it's now or in the future, is likely coming. um and that you want your uh survey takers input on that and thoughts on that as you come up with a final plan to take to them in a potential referendum. >> Let me uh add one thing about why we are advocating for this strategy rather than one that places three very concrete and specific operational referendum options with a set of very specific capital referendum options. The answer is again our
061our whole goal is to get you very clean data that is reliable and allows your community to tell you what they're interested in, where their priorities are, what they're willing to support. And what we want to avoid at all costs is two questions that sort of interact with each other. Perhaps somebody wants like a very expensive capital project that does X, Y, and Z. And for that reason, they're only going to support like the 3 million, like the smallest of the short-term band-aids in the operational referendum. But then if the school board decides not to to go a different direction with the capital one, suddenly you don't know how that person is going to vote or you don't have an idea of what that person is going to be willing to support. So, in the
062interest of trying to trying to get the clearest idea operationally of what the community is willing to support and then opening the door to feedback on potential capital projects, highlighting that something is coming in the next 18 24 months. It's not a school district trying to be like, "Oh, this is just the only referendum you're going to see." And then like concealing that from view, allowing to communicate about the facility's challenges, but then leaving a little bit more open-ended so that you're not in a position where you are locking yourself into two interacting questions necessarily on the same uh April ballot. Although that's a question, a strategy question for the board and not for us. That's that's that piece. So I'm kind of wondering why why not the strategy where you you give a little
063bit of context in the sense of uh given our current um identified facilities maintenance needs. uh uh over the next 20 years, we're expected to spend $108 million um to maintain our current buildings. Or another strategy of saying in the next five years, we're expected to spend we're expected to have a need of roughly $30 million to maintain our current buildings and which is eminent. um versus this particular strategy. >> I have I speaking personally, I have no problem using those specific numbers in this sort of thing. >> We could we could certainly add more context about the numbers if you think it would help your community understand where things are headed. Um I have no problem. I I mean it just I think I think one if if we're utilizing this as potentially a
064a way to to to help the public gain the gain some sort of a perception of the reality of the situation that including some of those numbers is is helpful. >> Sounds great. >> No, that's that's perfectly reasonable. Oh, Lord. >> So, so I'm I'm having a problem with the word update. Uh, generally, if somebody says they're updating their kitchen, it means they're installing stainless steel appliances and marble countertops. Um, that's clearly not what we're going for. We're going for something like streamline or economize or something else. Is there a reason you put update in there? Well, that's not about streamlining or or economizing. This this is basically like we could do the basic maintenance on all seven buildings and continue to operate. We could keep them functional. That's what update means. It basically just
065means >> take care of superficial repairs. But if that's unclear, then that's a word that we should change. >> Well, it might be just me, but it it's very unclear to me. It seems misleading. Yeah, we could say something needed but basic updates or repairs. >> Pay for basic repairs. >> I necessary. >> Yeah, I I can I can understand that concern. Absolutely. >> So, it's something like you said right there. Necessary, comma, basic repairs at all seven buildings. That's what you're talking about, right, Lori? >> Yeah. Right. Are you Are you guys okay with the strategy? >> Yes. >> Why are we doing seven buildings and not eight? >> You're right. It should be eight if we're including the ESC. >> Sure. >> Yeah. >> Not just the school for that. I was thinking
066>> we were Yeah, I think he was just thinking the school buildings. Yeah. >> A lot of people forget that this is a building we have to maintain, too. And that's what I was asking because it's the numbers that you're talking about include eight buildings include systems, >> right? >> So, but most people don't think of the ESC. So, if you say eight, >> then you have to clarify because otherwise they're going to say, well, these people don't know what they're talking about. >> Yeah. You should say eight buildings maybe including the ESC or something like that. >> Or if you want to leave at seven, you say seven school buildings. >> Seven school buildings plus >> plus. >> Yeah. Our numbers included the ESC though. >> Well, >> that's a >> I mean technically
067this does serve >> I don't think it should be in parentheses including the educational service committee. I think it should be uh eight buildings parentheses um one building. So it's clear >> seven schools would be >> yeah. >> How about that? >> Seven schools. There you go. Seven schools in the US, right? >> Okay. Yes. >> Seven schools, one admin building. >> They'll understand. >> Yeah. I I refrain from calling this the one admin building because we do have a school in this building, >> right? >> Yeah. That we serve. >> Admin school. >> Yeah. I know, right? I don't know how I feel about the strategy. Back to your question, I'm not saying it's bad. I'm not I'm just saying this is new to me and they school perceptions knows vastly more than I
068do about surveying a community. >> I reacted the same way. >> Okay. >> I'm like, I don't know. I don't know how they're going to feel about that. I mean, >> there's a a bit of of a roll of the dice here in one sense, but I think what was just pointed out is that if we lose the operational referendum, we're in trouble. >> Yeah. >> And so combining it with the capital one puts us at a certain amount of risk of the capital one being improved. And I mean, the scenario we painted is very, very realistic. approve a capital and then reduce the amount of operational or or defeat the operational >> right >> so then you're building rich so to speak but you can't run it you can't use the buildings because you
069don't have the operational money so but I want to make sure I understand um you gentlemen put this together so in cooperation with Jared and others I'm presuming here in at the EFC that we would then come back in 18 to 24 months probably. I mean with with our strongest capital referendum >> would that's and that's why I started warming to this as we were talking about it trying to see how both of those would interact in one ballot and and one survey even before we even get to a ballot was difficult. If we talk just operation and we finalized that project, right? Um we then can say, okay, um we told you we had other needs, right? Um, we're going to go back to the some of the basic survey questions we asked starting
070that conversation, but then it gives us the ability to ask full detailed questions about not just uh not not a big huge addition and and restructuring and all that. Um, but it will also help us to ask like smaller maintenance type questions and and if if that's all it is is um, >> sure, we'll we'll give you $18 million. I just pulled a number out of the hat because that was like the threshold that we found, right? To do maintenance. Uh and and they only want to do maintenance on the buildings that uh you know they know that we're most likely going to keep like middle school and the high school, right? Um and maybe Douglas, let's say. Um that's where those 18 million are going. And that's what the survey found out for us.
071We would never find that out trying to do that against this right now, >> right? >> You know what I mean? We we we wouldn't even be able to present that as, you know, a thing to think about because it would get convoluted with this other stuff. >> It's a separate conversation. >> I think this sets us up for the future. We aren't ignoring the maintenance. We mentioned the maintenance and the building needs and each one of the options. So, it's we haven't ignored them. And then we've put out there for the whole world to know that there's bigger things coming, >> right? you know, >> and and rather soon 18 to 24 months. >> Exactly. >> That's actually >> Can we clarify the question a little >> like as the district continues to plan
072for our facilities? What comments, questions, or suggestions would you like to share with us about the future image or future the word's escaping me? um >> structure of our district or something so they understand that we're looking for feedback like we don't want their suggestions to be >> just whatever. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Administrators stink, man. >> Right. >> Future organization of our district. No, structure is probably the best word. >> Future configuration. >> Configuration's good. Yeah, >> I would say future configuration and um you also want to get to the facilities part and >> that is facilities. >> Oh, that is facilities. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I like footprint. >> Yeah. Okay. Footprint, but also functionality of our buildings, right? We want to know about functionality of our buildings, too. Right. Feedback on that.
073>> Yeah. Because I'm I'm sure they're pulling their hair out. How are we going to get those down to >> right? >> Don't worry, we we strike >> we'll work with it down after we get the ideas on ideas tonight. >> We're we're early enough. We want we want our ideas right now and then it's our job to to cut them back. >> I I like this. I think this is a fine question. Um a little wordy, so I might play around with it, but it it gets it a good idea. Um, >> yeah. >> Okay. >> There is one more page of the survey. It's It's not that fun, but it's probably the most important on our end um for the data to be reliable. This is where we go into respondent information. Uh,
074this is the age question. And then we ask, is your primary residence in the Watertown Unified School District? This is key because there's some staff members who likely live outside of your district boundaries. Um there might be open enrollment student families, things like that. When we're looking at the potential outcome for an operational referendum, we need to know who can vote. You know, who who among your survey takers will be able to vote in that referendum. So, we're able to use this to filter the responses. We ask in which municipality do you live? That sometimes it's interesting, sometimes it's not. Sometimes there's pockets of support or opposition. Perhaps it's because of a recent tax increase in a specific municipality or something like that. And it allows you to look down and dive into the data
075and figure out if there's specific messaging or conversations you need to have with parts of your community. We ask if they're an employee and if they have children attending a school. Um, that allows us to break your respondents down into three key groups of staff, parents, and then the biggest group are going to be those no and no folks, the non-parents, non-staff. Those are the biggest group in your community. Um, they're also the least connected to the school. And so, it's really important to hear from them and be able to understand specifically their thoughts on this. Uh, given the impact they would have on an election, we ask a question about how would you like to receive information from us? We'll customize this list. We haven't gone through that yet. Um, but that's just a
076good communication question both if there is a potential referendum down the line. Uh, how to communicate about that? And in general, how to communicate with your different constituencies uh, and groups in your district. And then we ask a big overall satisfaction question. On a scale of 0 to 10, how likely would you be to recommend the district to a friend or family member? Um, and that's just nice to understand how folks feel about you independent of the financial stuff. And then the eighth page is mostly belongs to the post office. This is where all of the mailing addresses get printed so that they end up in the right places. We do in case someone gets it out of their mailbox and puts this down up on the upside of their dinner table. We explain that
077there's a school survey enclosed. We'll add that district office number back here. And we'll put the deadline down here so folks again who are deadline oriented like myself uh know when we got to get into action. And that's the eightpage survey. >> Overall thoughts, reactions. >> I think your survey overall is great. I appreciate that time you put in on it. >> Yeah, I echo that. >> Yeah, me too. >> Thank you. >> I think it's really important that you said that you would be contacting them a week later or so if they hadn't filled it out yet. going back and contacting them to keep filling that out because they're they're learnable to look at that and say go to the way or forget about it. >> So, so >> as I'm working on the
078next steps, >> can I ask a question before you go to >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Okay. So, we had discussed in a previous board meeting about maybe having board members and administrators go out to the community with like iPads or whatever to have them take the survey like let's say standing outside Walmart or whatever and that's fine if that's not doable with the structure of school perceptions. I know that this was just something we were spitballing out. >> That that's part of the next steps discussion you're talking. >> Okay. Because on our agenda is next steps, right? >> All right. >> So, uh as we move into the next steps before we get into the discussion about um how are we going to do those informational type meetings around the survey? How can we you
079know help you help facilitate you taking it and stuff? next steps on uh finalizing the um final draft or as close to a final draft as we can. We call it the drafty draft draft, right? Which is you drafted it up so many times it's like almost there. >> I'd like to have one or two board members that I can work with um to just send ideas that uh school perceptions and I uh have worked on, right, to say is do you still see this as talking the same, right? because we're we got to cut this down. We gotta uh do that, but I also have to be flexible because our timeline is quick. So, are there any like one or two of you that would be willing to help finalize the drafting of the
080words? >> I can I would like to >> How about you two that fine as long unless I I was looking that way, but I I would be good with you too if everybody else is fine with that. Is everybody fine with that? >> I'm comfortable with that. >> Okay, then. Um, uh, Linda and Lori, I will, uh, whenever we get like to a place where we have we think a really good solid next step, I will then put it out to you and say, uh, just put your eyes on this, tell us your thoughts. Is this more clear, less clear, and do you have suggestions, right? And then I'll be able to take it back to them. But it's important that we are as flexible as we can be in getting things done as
081quickly as possible to meet our timelines. Um so I I just wanted to circle back on one one particular item which was we we as a board uh had a conversation with P and we we had provided three options for questions um to be considered for um for a survey. Um, and some of those questions, some of those options are different and um, I I just wanted to make sure that the board was aware of that and comfortable with what the re rationale behind why that is. Um, so if you wanted to circle back on specifically one one of the uh options was like I think it was like a $3 million referendum that would incrementally progressively go. >> Um, yeah, thank you for bringing that up. So, um, you know, we had a question
082that you talked about uh that started low and then incrementally stepped up. Um, you know, I won't speak uh too clearly for school perceptions, but they basically said those are getting harder and harder to explain and get correct information back on. Uh, and they're trying to advise clients. If it's hard to explain in a survey, it's going to be even harder to explain if if it actually happens through the survey to be one of the options to explain as a marketing tool. Uh, and so they're just like, put ones in and tell them what will happen if they choose those. And that's clearer, a lot clearer. >> So that's why we moved away from that option. >> Any questions about that? >> Good question. Because I wanted the same thing. >> And then there was
083some other facilities pieces that we talked about, right? That would also help us operationally because we would have the room or movement to go into a different structure. And even if we didn't pass an operational referendum, it would be like a short-term band-aid. for instance, the adding the middle school onto the high school, right? Um we would save money in restructuring the rest of our buildings, closing some buildings and doing that. Um but again we felt like if you started to introduce something that was a capital type referendum with these other three >> they that would be distracting and we still may have that as an option through our uh basically what was what's going to happen and this is part of the you know moving forward if things happen appropriately and uh you know
084we get information back from a survey Okay, the survey leads us to drafting a good question and if that question passes, we are going to be on to the next survey which is around our facilities that we told them within 18 to 24 months, we're going to talk to you about, right? So, we're going to get to the facilities part anyway, right? We're and in better detail with better questions that are only capital. Um, that was school perceptions. Yeah. thought or or or um discussion points for us to think about tonight. >> If I if I may, Jared, I just want to say that a little bit differently, which is that it's not my worry >> personally is it it's not that a capital question would be distracting. It's that a capital question would lead
085to unreliable data on the operational side. If I'm a voter and I'm like, "Oh, great. Here's a capital option that I know will long run save on operational costs." I'm just going to say that I would support like the $3 million option and say no to the other two. And then when it comes to the ballot, maybe that capital option isn't there. And now I don't know how that person is going to vote. Like as a school board, I have no idea what to expect in the operational referendum. That's why we don't want to put these these two pieces that are related to each other on the same survey. >> Why wouldn't we ask them if they voted last spring and if they intended to vote this spring? Uh so sometimes questions like that can
086turn people off of actually taking the survey. They it's also sometimes unreliable data because sometimes if there's a social pressure around something like there is with voting that feels like it's the right thing to do. Someone's just going to say yeah I did it because there's no consequence to saying no. Um so we we haven't found the data useful. I guess would you know we've we've looked we've we have done that in the past and the data just ends up not really being useful. >> So at one point gentlemen in here you referred to the April 2024 referendum. Um is it possible for you to bring up that back up for us? I'd like to look at that just I do have a question related to that. >> Yes. >> Sorry. No, this is why
087we're here. All right. Is Is this what you were talking about? >> It was the actual question. >> It was after I wanted I want the part where you said um that you asked them a question about would they vote for a referendum that was less than the one that was defeated. There are two parts here. >> Yeah, that one. >> Okay. So, um, first of all, I would put a date of April 2025 on there, but here's my bigger question about that. I don't know that I necessarily remember accurately what that referendum amount was. Is there what was your reason for leaving the amount off there? >> Because in this one, it's sort of unrelated to the numbers, the specifics of the numbers. This one is about would you support the district whatever um
088the principle I guess of returning to the ballot with an operational question that's smaller than whatever was on that April ballot whether you remember it or not. We don't necessarily want them to connect it with that exact amount. It's just the idea of a smaller question than they were previously asked. The other thing to keep in mind about the April referendum is that the minute we start getting into these specifics, it's going to defeat the the clarity issue. So like the the April referendum was a seven-year recurring referendum and all the options that we're talking about are five-year non-recurring referendums and to try to like if you imagine that question trying to get into those details like that because suddenly that's going to raise more questions for people then uh it helps clarify them. >>
089I needed to know. Thank you. I guess I would I would ask what if what if you're you happen to be reading this as constituent that that that says yeah I supported the old the past referendum and you know and I I almost didn't think that was enough and then you check >> it for like >> I don't know I'm just asking >> can I >> okay so I'm going to weigh in on this as Well, because I have the same question feeling and I am not the expert by any means, but um usually to influence people, you set the stage that you have asked for something larger. It was rejected and they almost feel like they're doing you a favor when you present them a uh a lesser pressing or a lesser amount. Right?
090So I'm not seeing in the question, but is there any way in the statements above where it said we did go in 2025, the April 2025 seven or 7 million um indefinite referendum was denied just because when I read the question as a constituent, if I wasn't in this meeting deciding it, my first question would be, well, what did they ask for last time? Oh, I'm going to go online and I'm going to see what are they asking for. What kind of concessions are they making to make this an easier gift for me? So, I but again, I'm not the expert, so I understand about you saying that it could, you know, distort the data or muck the waters unnecessarily. Um, but I think giving that number readily in the beginning of the survey so
091they have a frame of reference of what what concessions we've made to accommodate their comfort level might actually be advantageous for us. >> Scott's adding that language, right? Just an additional bullet point under the 2018 voter approved operational referendum. I would have, >> you know, um, instead of doing it there, we already have above, uh, Scott, where you talked about the definition of operational rush and that was rejected. >> You could you could put the number right up in there and save a lot of words. >> Yep. >> Yeah. And I'm cool. Wherever it is, I just think somewhere on the survey, it should state what our previous ask was. it might entice them to be more willing to uh vote yes for the referendum because we did greatly make concessions before bringing it to
092referendum again. >> Yeah, I think that's really important. >> I want school perceptions to weigh in on that. >> Yes. >> Oh, I want I want to know what both of you think >> that I I have no problem with that. >> Yeah. >> Speaking personally, >> I think I I don't have a problem with it. And if you all think that that's important for your community, this is where it needs to it's your survey, you know, and we want to reflect what you think your community needs to hear and what they're going to respond to. So, I don't think it creates any problem that I would push back against. That makes sense. >> Right. So, it doesn't it doesn't color the accuracy of the survey. >> That's right. No, it doesn't. And I I
093think up here, you know, as Derek was speaking to, if we try to fit it in with the question or right before that question, it starts to complicate things, but here it provides context that then people have in their head as they're reading the rest of the survey. >> Scott, um, and or Derek, >> in some of the surveys that you put out, before you get into the options, you also ask a a like a mill rate tolerance type question. Is there a reason that we're we're not thinking about that here or >> we always only do the mill rate tolerance related to um specific plans for operational um tends to be the approach because someone it's it's hard for someone to say how much they'd support when they don't know what it is they're
094supporting. Um, okay. >> If there's no if there's no information on what it is, it's just kind of a general number. And then, >> you know, I I would not support anything if there's no plan attached to it. So, you want the plans to come before sort of that test of the tax tolerance support. Yeah. >> Can we just go back up to the correction you made and add that the referendum we asked for had no sunset or was indefinite or something to show that we have adjusted where we are not asking for indefinite funds but we are now putting an end date on the referendum for our constituent. >> That was the biggest complaint I heard. >> Yeah, for sure. that that yeah Scott that referendum would have provided 7 million uh would have
095each year on a permanent basis >> permanent basis that's >> I couldn't think of a good word >> yeah do good >> English degree coming in >> we're looking like >> when we were when he was presenting on this he said recurring and I said Okay. Clarify. You need clarify. >> Yeah. Right. Right. >> Forever. Unless the board says we're done. >> Yeah. And the other thing that's really important is that I hear back is I want to see some cuts. And they they they need to know very strongly on this that this is what's been cut. And you you've done that. You just talked about that, right? >> You made some concessions and you've cut some money and they need to know that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, uh, anything else on the survey
096itself or next steps leading up to finalizing the survey? >> No, I think school perceptions, you did a great job. >> Thank you so much. >> Can I Can I ask one quick question? >> Yeah, sure. >> Is there a page limit on this? It's your It's your target. >> So, our surveys have to be either four or eight pages um for how they're printed. I'll try to explain this over video. So wish me luck with my hands here. But uh it's uh an eight page survey as you have right now is two 11 by 17 inch pieces of paper that get folded into 8 and 1 half by 11 pieces of paper and then you can page through them. But that means that it has to be in four page increments. I don't think
097we've ever done a 12-page survey because I think the response rate would be terrible. So four and eight pages, four and eight pages is our typical amount. >> So then I I think that um moving forward uh for continued planning when we get this survey to the next step which is almost finalized and we're getting ready to send it out. We're going to have another meeting to approve that. >> At that time I think we should talk about delivery options and support options for taking the survey. >> Okay. >> Great. is correct. >> It will be much clearer for us what the act what we're actually dealing with when we hit that level. >> Okay. >> All right. I don't have anything else then. >> Me neither. >> So, we hit um pretty much every
098part of our agenda including discussion. >> Oh, look it right in 8:15. >> Do we have any other closing questions or comments or thoughts? Okay. Well, hearing none. Thank you both. Thank you. >> Good evening everybody. >> Thank you for having us. >> I appreciate it. Thank you for >> pleasure. >> All right. Well, so without further ado, >> before you adjourn, I just have a quick question. >> Yes. >> Did I miss how much this thing is going to cost us to do the survey? >> That was in the speification. Oh, the presentation. >> Yeah. If you look at the attach documents. >> Yeah. >> It was very reasonable. Yeah. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Do I hear a motion to adjurnn? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Moved by Tammy. Seconded
099by Lori. >> All those in favor? >> Is everything on?