08/20/2025 Special Board Meeting: PRA WUSD BOE Work Session

001Time is now 7 o'clock. I call this meeting the special board meeting of the board to order. Uh please join me for the pledge of allegiance. >> To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. [Music] All right, Tammy, could you please take the role? >> Yes. Julie Napling >> here. >> Tammy Fornier. >> David Handyside >> here. >> Glory Hoffman >> here. >> Linda Brener. >> Oen Brener. >> Obenbrer. Sorry about that. >> Here. >> Carl Schwarzy >> here. >> Dan Boltner >> here. >> Craig Warman >> here. >> Okay. Excellent over. >> Thank you for that. Uh the first item on our agenda is the timeline review. So back to you, Perry. So we've

002got it up, but it's also attached from you guys there. >> Oh, okay. Got it. So it's nice to see everyone here. Would you like to >> Yeah. Can um what we'd like to do is actually pull up the the Google Drive presentation. >> Sure. >> Can we do that? >> Yep. Absolutely. Because that's going to be in there. >> Then we can introduce ourselves. Some of us have not met before. So, if that's okay. Thank you. >> Excellent. Uh thanks again for having us. Um go ahead and advance to the next slide. who's confirmed or who's been controlling, but thank you for whomever is clicking to the next slide. >> It'll be Sarah here. She'll click to the next slide. So, just just let her know uh where we need to go. >> Okay,

003>> go ahead. >> First, I have to figure out how to do this. >> That's all right. So, the next slide is going to show some familiar faces um for all of you. So, um this is the the team up on the screen from P. My name is Deon Kek. I'm an architect and a partner there. Um been there for uh over 18 years. I'm blessed to be able to work in K12 education each and every day. And joining a me from our team is >> Hi everyone. I'm Melissa Thompson and I am the director of education strategy here at Plunker Ridge Architects. And for those of you that I haven't met, it's nice to to meet you. Um, my prior life was as a superintendent and high school principal and teacher and all the

004things that that lead up to that for 25 years. So, it's my pleasure to be with P. This is I'm now starting my third year with them and it's been great working with the Watertown School District. >> Uh, thank you for uh having us here. Uh, Shannon Matoxin, vice president for JP Cullen and Sons. Um happy to be here and working with P and the district um providing some of the the budgeting and some of the phasing and scheduling as we proceed. >> Uh Brian H general superintendent for JB Cullen. I've been with Cullen for 25 years. I was actually in charge of the school projects that we did back in 0809. Um hopefully now we're back again to uh go with addition the additional work. So, um, local resident right up the road and

005just glad to be a part of this. Thank you. >> Um, then here's our agenda for this evening. So, you guys all should have seen this in the um board packet that went out or the the agenda. Um, so we are going to go through the the timeline review that was brought up a little bit a minute ago. Um, review our concept development and then look at uh directions moving forward. that's going to involve timeline process and then um we'll touch on the community engagement survey. So the next slide gives us um just a real quick overview of our five-step process. Right now we're kind of hovering between step three and step four. Step three is where we develop um the project or the projects that would make up um how we go about tackling

006maintenance. How do we go about um tackling um different building needs uh grades where they are positioned? And also then step four is how do we get and gain some community feedback? How do we know that the community supports um or at least we can get some feedback, hear from them uh for a plan that we might take forward? >> Absolutely. Um, and for those of you who might be newer to the board table here, um, there is a very large document. I see that Carl has his here. Um, if you have not yet received one, we will work with the district to make sure that you can have your own copy. So when we refer to steps one and two or seek and study that's like volume one and volume two that includes a

007very indepth uh condition you know assessment of the building and grounds. Um so when we talk about maintenance list volume one has that pretty much and then I think it's mostly in in this district's case volume two which is actually the skinnier one that has the educational space adequacy. So, some of the things that we're going to kind of already just for the sake of moving forward this evening assume that you have behind you. We understand some of you don't, but that's in volumes one and two which correspond with one and two there. >> So, >> let me just do a real quick check. Does everybody have those or uh David, do you and Linda have those? Okay. I will make sure that before you leave tonight, you have copies because I believe I have

008enough extra for the two of you. Uh and then just to even go go a little bit beyond that, um there are links to our presentations that we gave a little bit more than a year ago um to the different committees um and then the the overall kind of condensed version here. So everybody all together. So there there are some video recorded presentations that you could go ahead and watch. I know it's a it's a lot of lot of paper to go through. So that might help you understand what you're looking at as well. >> Yeah, there were three in pretty rapid succession that covered both of what you're like a good synopsis of those in May of 2024 if that helps you. >> All right, with that maybe we could check at the next

009slide. So this is where we thought we would just touch base on the timeline review. Um it if if you live in paper world it looks like this. If you live in Word docs world, then it looks like kind of what you see on the screen. We don't want to spend a lot of time on this. We just simply wanted to reference it that when we were here with the board earlier this summer in May and then again in June, we had talked about timeline and talked about setting up a timeline that does allow the district and the board in particular the flexibility that if a decision would be made to move forward with putting a question forth to the community or doing some study that the timeline that's here works for that. So it's

010it's not a you have to. It's just that this is the timeline you would need to follow. The process can look slightly differently within. But there are a few things in here like there's a date in January and some other pieces that really are not flexible. They are state statute driven. Um but other than that, for instance, we talk about maybe community engagement here in August uh on this first page. That is going to look a little bit different and there's nothing wrong with that. But the just big benchmarks we wanted to call out. So, if this isn't something you've had a chance to look at yet, which we we understand why some of you may not have, just please um feel free to look at this and and we just wanted to acknowledge that

011there may be some process change, but it's all good. And then moving right along, unless there are questions on that, we will go right into our concept development. >> Um as I shared with you in fiscal meeting most recently, uh if you were at our meeting, um really We're taking all of this information um about our facilities over the last couple of years and about our finances as most recently as our last fiscal meeting here and we uh as a a meeting before we asked um Sarah to basically look at seven different possibilities of you know just rough ideas of what referendums were uh uh and how much they might cost just to give us an idea of costing of these things, right? Um and so, um if you weren't at fiscal, she just went

012over those numbers at fiscal. Those are in the fiscal meetings. Uh if you log in, make sure you're logged into board docs. You go in and you see the um administrative content, you will see sheets from Beard that outline what those costs are and the mill rates associated with those. Okay. Uh and um also from uh here uh during the last couple meetings, the last one with P, you as a board gave P basically three separate ideas of directions. Uh and they're going to go over those options with you uh later. Uh and we're going to walk through those. Um and and you'll see some of the operations there are operation or excuse me option A which is operation only option B which is operational and maintenance and what what would maintenance mean if we

013did all the phase one right again review that with us and we will review that with you and then option C which is an opt operational and maintenance with consolidation plan uh and they've got some uh some footprints of buildings and costs associated with what those might look like if we if we restructured. Uh and again, those again were what you asked them to develop. So, uh we have the update from the fiscal management meeting today. We'll go over that again with you, especially if you weren't here. And then the core team discussion based on board direction is really the two items that are going to lead us into tonight's discussion. We'd like to take maybe those seven ideas that we had and keep narrowing them down to about three ideas that we could take

014out to our public via a survey. Right? We may have to do some other uh outreach. We'll discuss um community engagement opportunities also later tonight in tonight's meeting. So, if there's other things that you think we need to engage community on or or how we might want to do that, today is really a workg groupoup session. That's how what we're focusing on. It's not a lot of sit and get for you. It's some sit and get, but mostly we're going to be working together. And our goal is to try to funnel those options down to one to three questions that we would want to survey out there. I wouldn't suggest one and I wouldn't suggest more than three. And the reason I wouldn't suggest more than three to survey out is because the data you'll

015get back will start getting muddy. And I'd rather do three three question surveys than, you know, uh, one that's four and you get nothing good back on, right? So, you know, I I would rather us keep refining through a different survey process, um, than to start with really something that we're not going to get good data back on, right? And a lot of people would say only put two questions out there because then there's a little bit more of a forced choice. But >> um I can't get to any of this. Um is this in your Google Docs? Where is this presentation? >> This is in Google Docs and and we uh we will uh we we're making some last minutes adjustments on it uh up up until today. I mean we're working on pricing.

016>> It will it will be shared. Okay. Don't don't don't worry about that. and and um maybe um >> I'll make a PDF of it right now. >> I was say if if you guys want to make a PDF of it, we can we can uh share it out by the end of the meeting tonight even into your email. Okay. >> And I'm sorry to interrupt you. You also have at your place at the table. This this is not for what Jared's going to start with, but when we start talking about B and C, you actually have on this sheet of paper all the detail. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yep. So you I just didn't want to jump the gun on that in our conversation here. But yes, you will have that and you

017will also have two additional things to assist you as you go that have the same detail and a chance for you to work through this. >> Okay. >> So if you can get to the next slide. So um we're going to talk a little bit about some definitions, right? And then uh we will get into um some of those options. We we'll again review uh what option A looks like. We'll see option B's, B and C. We have our work our workg groupoup session. So >> yeah, thank you very much. So um before we got going, we wanted to do um just some definitions if by chance we we end up talking about them. We might not talk about we're going to talk about maintenance, but um capacity. So what does that mean when we

018think about schools? um capacity. If we end up using that uh word tonight, we're gonna um it'll be based on the maximum capacity of the basic the number of students that could fit in a building. So, this would be there. [Music] So, the variables impacted based on whatever that policy or guideline might be, right? And and it has to do with a number of different things. Student teacher ratio as well as if we have 10 rooms in the building, are they all used as classrooms or is one used as a conference room? Right? Then immediately the the capacity of that building would would change. So that's what we're going to use uh the word capacity for maximum capacity and it's not a uh not a code required capacity. So um then maintenance only. So really

019we're looking at uh tonight we're looking at level one. So those were the items that were identified in need of um remediation or um some some help uh in years 0 to five in our in our study that we did. So um it would also be inclusive of any accessibility items. So the ADA needs and again we have those in um for maintenance only for level one for planning purposes to ensure that we're being conservative stuff can always come out if we're going ahead and we end up doing some maintenance at a building. Well, we don't need to do all the ADA stuff here because we're only touching this corner of the building and not um a larger section like I've talked about in the past. So if just to bring up some of our

020our newer members at the table, if we did a large project where we would be touching majority of the building, then you have to spend a certain portion of your budget to meet a certain number of uh ADA thresholds or if you're touching like the whole building, you have to bring everything up to code and you can't you can't leave anything at the building that is non-compliant. Um and lucky for us, ADA um and the state codes in Wisconsin aren't changing September 1st. So, um, we're we're aware of that stuff. So, then maintenance plus is on here, right? Well, it looks kind of funny. It's got what's that line through it? Well, at the last meeting, we we talked about maintenance plus a little bit. And the plus part of that was well, are we

021addressing uh step two, our educational space adequacy? And what you'll see in our options tonight is that we are trying to be as um conservative and um forward thinking as we can as we look at our middle school option to the high school. But we also want to be incredibly respectful of honestly of all of your time, of your community's time, and make sure that we're proposing something that we think um can can benefit. But we're not doing maintenance plus across like all buildings because the numbers are we would just spend a lot of time talking about it and it it would be for not. >> Yeah. >> And I'll remind the board the the one educational adequacy item that you did ask for a price on and they'll go over it later is looking

022at letting more light into the current middle school RMS through windows, solar tubes or whatever else. Devon will go over that ask and what it would cost, but that was really the only educational space um you know adequacy um or improvement for programmatic reasons um that we actually discussed as a board thinking about the rest of it was a focus on maintenance or a focus on something that would shift us into a different footprint pattern. Okay. So, uh if if there were other things that you as a board uh wanted to uh do to uh enhance programming, those aren't in this plan anymore. Okay? Because you you guys made that decision to say um let's look at the windows, but everything else we don't have money for that right now. Okay. And then I can

023confirm that I just hit send on the PDF to Steve people. Um go ahead and go to our go to the next slide and please if anybody has a question on like what does that term mean? Just just raise your hand and we'll get we'll address it right away. So um the next one is um really I'm proud that the happy that the Cullen team is here to walk us through what this one shows. >> Yeah. Um these are all numbers you guys have seen before. As you can see again level one 0 to five years. We looked at that price. We have it broken down per school. The one thing that we did do is we did adjust the pricing to 2027. Um, so we looked at inflation uh going out for two years.

024The last time you saw it's probably 2025. So we've adjusted all that to uh come up to a $30.92 million uh level one cost to uh correct those issues. >> Yeah. And they did that they did that under my direction because if we are going to ask for a referendum depending on when we ask for it I believe the soonest that we would be able to do the work would be 2027. And it's much easier for us to plan with those numbers and uh work it down than to work with today's number and then say to the community or other people, well it's going to cost a lot more than that now, right? And so I just said I think it's best for us to just start publishing those numbers as possibles, right? We can

025always be a little bit more conservative and work it back if we need to. Um, but that's that's the best guess that we'll have that those numbers will cost in 2027 when we would probably actually do the work. Okay. So, um I I'd like us to take a few minutes um especially for those who weren't in fiscal to kind of go over again um operational only. And I know that um you know I I've shared this with you before and I know that as a board you've talked about this really operationally that's our biggest need. We need to continue to have our doors open. Uh there were some uh two different levels of operational uh numbers that uh Sarah put out actually three uh because one was what would we have to do to get

026to a budget number if we don't pass the referendum uh and and we we we want to again share with you that that looks like we would have to do uh expenditure restraint of about four and a half million dollars, right? to to fit into a new budget projection. So that's if no referendum passes about $4.5 million on top of the $1.2 million that we uh reduced in this budget for this this school year. Okay. Any questions about that for Sarah or I? Okay. And then Sarah, I'll I'll have you go through the two other things that you pointed out so that they can uh copy or put that down into their notes. But um that that's one one step. Should should no referendum happen or pass, that's one operational number that we would have

027to consider, >> right? And so um at the last fiscal meeting, the committee gave us six different scenarios to cost out and through. One of those was a $6 million five-year non-recurring operating grant. Um, and that would be about enough to cover budget deficits for those five years with some adjustments as we go. Um, and the mill impact on that is going to be about $147. And then we also looked, if I can find, we looked at um, $2.5 million for three years. And if that one were to pass, we still would be making some pretty significant budget reductions. Um probably at least for two years, >> correct? >> Yes. And the mill impact for that would be 45 cents. Those were the only just operational um scenarios that we looked at. And then we

028looked at some that were combined with different capital numbers. >> Okay. So those are um the numbers that you have in operational only. Uh again when you're thinking about an operational question that you would like to survey out that's anywhere from zero to I think we would be comfortable with the six but if if we are in the sixth uh we we still may have to do some budgetary constraint items. Okay. So then option B this is an operational with maintenance only. So again the operational um as discussed and then the new component of that the maintenance only or what would be a a capital uh question perhaps um for all buildings as you saw in a previous slide the maintenance in 2027 is $30.92 million right a typical borrow would be well the the

029legal borrow would be 20 years um and that item is um exclusive of those middle school windows. So that's an option that you would have if you wanted to include it. So again, this option B, it's operational as discussed. It's capital for maintenance level one items. It's all buildings. So that includes the one that we're sitting in right here and all the schools and all items in level one only. So the zero to five years. The optional additional cost if you wanted um would be for middle school windows. So you can you can see what those are there, right? We have a number the the the windows at the middle school lack of windows came up. How do we make it a better place for our kids and also for our staff? Well, Colin, what

030would what would that cost? So, we looked at how can we bring um at least two windows to to each room that's on an exterior and how can we bring some daylight from above from a a solar tube or a skylight, however you would like to call it, um for the interior rooms. So, there's a unit cost there and also the number of units um that we we recommend or suggest. And then there's also um uh and that's for the solar tube or skylights as well as the exterior windows. Can you do less? Absolutely. Um but this is this is what we would recommend. Um right for any room that has no daylight, something is always better than nothing. Right. So that's that's um option B. Uh operational with maintenance only. Again, maintenance only all

031buildings. Sound good? Okay. The next one, this is where we get to go through and and we'll actually we'll look at some some some site plans. Um uh and this one this one again operational um as discussed. Um but this option C it's a little different. It's operational and capital with consolidation. So this directly addresses uh the requests that were made at our last meeting uh last month. So the capital with consolidation right because we have many options here and your little note sheet will help you take some notes on that. Um I can't give you a dollar amount because this is really a a build your own um type project. What is valuable to to you and your constituents? What do uh educators and students need? Um so we'll go we'll go through this

032but whatever that dollar amount again uh over borrowed over 20 years. So for elementary schools um in this option it would involve um closing our smallest schools uh which are Lincoln Leap and Shurers Douglas and Webster which are currently three section schools. So our larger schools those would remain for the middle school. the middle school would move to the high school. Well, at Riverside, that would become an elementary school. So, that would help us with our additional capacity or with grade level configuration. The pool would remain, the pool stays operational just as it is today. Uh for the high school, there would be limited renovation to accommodate the middle school students, right? Because they're leaving Riverside. and also this facility here. Um, when we think about the facility that we're in right here, the ESC,

033we all understand the first floor, but our facilities team, uh, and our building and grounds that work throughout all of our buildings, they understand what's below us as well. There's facilities, there's warehouse, there's storage, there's plan room, there's many, many things that support the entire district. So, we'll show you what that could look like, too. But again, we would be um moving this facility or the square footage of it uh over to the high school site. The dollar amount um for this um to return the site we're on right now to developable land, right? To not leave a vacant building in the heart of town or anywhere in town. Um that dollar amount would be included in the the dollars that you're seeing for the middle school options. And then maintenance level one items are

034included. um for all remaining buildings again level one 0 to5 uh all items so that total is is listed there 24.22 22. So that's um really right less the um elementary schools that we would be consolidating >> and and the ESC. Correct. That's correct. Thank you. That's a very important point. So let's uh let's jump to the next slide which we've already done. So again I'm going to go through now each of these parts in in more detail. So this is option C the details of it. This is again this is this is our our meat and potatoes for the evening. Um so again um to move forward with a consolidation plan would be closing u those buildings Douglas and Webster would remain Riverside becomes an elementary school maintains uh its operation and again maintenance

035level one items all remaining buildings all items. Next, next slide. It feels a little redundant, right? But I got to build the build the story to what that option C is. ESC. Again, this is just a visual representation, right? Moves to the high school site includes cost to return the existing site to developable land. So on the left hand side, you're seeing a site plan, right? That's kind of like a Google Earth or a aerial view. That's the current district office. And if we were returning it to developable land or a green field for for new development, we would want to take off all the the the improvements that are here so that we could sell it and someone can put something up that the community needs or is looking for. Someone wants to >>

036What would be the cost of that approximately? >> Um for the ESC for the ESC um we just assumed a budget a million dollars at this point. 1 million to raise it >> and bring it back and seed it, make it a green site. >> Okay, good question. Uh, so the next slide. So here's where we're going to get into a bunch of bunch of kind of maybe fun things or fun for me things I think hopefully fun for you too. Middle school, high school, and ESC, right? So let's look at the high school property. So again, we're going to move the the middle school would move to the high school site with limited edition renovation. And again, Riverside then, right, we're not leaving it vacant. We're going to utilize that as a building within

037within our district. Um becomes an elementary school. Again, the pool is operational. The high school, again, it would receive limited um renovation to accommodate the middle school, N. We'll talk about that a little bit. And then again, maintenance level one items uh for for the remaining building. So, we're going to go through um three three kind of options here for you. And again, you got your note sheet that you can you can take some notes on. Um otherwise, the PDF presentation is going to be coming your way. Um we have a one-story option um that is uh $16.5 million. We have a twostory edition um 19.5 and then we have some allocart options. So, how can we best or better u meet the needs of middle school students? perhaps separate from high school students. Um

038and uh so we'll go through what that is. So next slide. So here this is our one story option. What we want to bring to you is well what's the least expensive way that we think that we can do this and accommodate middle school students at the high school. So what you're seeing on the left hand side again this is these are both site plans. The left hand side shows the majority of the district property um for the high school site. On the right hand side, just a little bit of a zoom in. Okay, so the blue um kind of looks like a plus sign, that's the existing high school. It would have some renovation. The yellow areas, those are proposed additions. If we could start in the bottom left hand corner. I apologize I

039don't have a pointer or anything but the bottom left hand corner kind of looks like a C. So that would be the proposed one story addition with the courtyard. >> Yeah. So this could potentially Yeah. It could make a make a courtyard. Um the interesting thing here is it would link your science area of the high school to your uh CTE, your your career and technical education, right? There's a lot of thought process of of those two things kind of being together. Anyway, um so this could provide a direct link. This addition um uh also just outside of it has um its own drop off and pickup area that could be used for middle school play. Right. We're bringing sixth, seventh, and eighth graders here. Those kids still need to run around and move around.

040Um whether it's at at lunch or some other opportunity. And then um depending on the the number of uh things that we're doing on site, we're also going to have to look at some storm water management. So just how does water move around on the site? if it's easier for you to see on your screens by now you should have the email with the PDF presentation >> and you can maybe even you know uh use tools to enlarge or whatever there because >> sir why don't you go to the next slide so the next slide actually has some bullets of like hey what is Deon actually talking about and I don't need to see the little one let's look at the big one so again um one-story uh building uh that would include an elevator

041so that we can get kids from upstairs and downstairs it would free up space uh for middle school students. So, they would be um right around the library in this option perhaps. Again, it connects science and CTE. It's future expansion ready. So, it could go out and also up if we wanted to add a second floor in the future, right? Everybody always asks, can it go up? Um let's if we want, we can plan it for that. Um it includes storm water management. And then, um we do also need to u potentially relocate a soccer field. So, we're including that cost. Again, just like Shannon from Cullen had mentioned earlier, we want to make sure that we're being conservative and we have all the dollars and even Dr. Burke mentioned that have all the dollars.

042We can always pair back, but we can't really go back up. Um, it includes a middle school play area, pickup, drop off. Um, it would include some interior high school renovation. So, that would include space for u middle school music and making sure that it's appropriately separated from adjacent um activities. So like art, we don't want to sing in art when we're doing art. Um it would also create a new um health or sick room. Uh we have more students coming to the building. So let's make sure we're we're handling them appropriately. Um so and then um the last bullet point there is the ESC edition for admin and facilities. So um Miss Kelly, would you mind hovering your cursor over the big yellow blob on the far left hand side? that right there. So

043in this option again, right, I said ESC would go to the high school site. So the top of that would be the function that we're in right now, all the office areas and and public administration. The area behind it that's immediately abuing the building, that would be for the facilities. So that would be like the stuff that's downstairs. Well, hey, guess what? Now we don't have to use the slide that brings our stuff downstairs and we have to carry it back out. we can just have it all on grade and then yes I know there's some infrastructure pieces there generator transer transformer and ice storage so like right everybody I we got the details also in this the cost to move that stuff so that would be the what the ESC looks like and then

044um also if you could move your cursor to the square box on the very top um perfect right there that is a potential addition um for high school orchestra so what Would that allow? Well, that would allow middle school band um to be able to occupy the existing space and then the middle schoolers wouldn't have to walk as far or by as many high school spaces if this was provided. And then the last um element on here and um these last two things that I'm talking about, the orchestra as well as this next one, these are going to be in your allocart options. Okay? So, they'll be dollars later on. Um, so the the piece that's off to the far right, we'd still maintain access out to the athletic fields from the large parking lot,

045but this would bring um either a multi-purpose room um or a gym or middle school use or after hours for everybody. Um in addition to a servery storage for fed items, right? because this is for physical education and also to then store tables when we're using it as a common or a cafeteria, right? We we have to be able to put the table somewhere if we're going to play in it and be safe. >> Yeah. And I will share um this uh Devin shared that there's an alleart option to this. I want to share that um that space to the right there. Sarah, can you circle it again here? where it's multi-purpose or gymnasium. That's the allearting that you would have to do. >> If we do an addition, we'll need this space. We cannot

046fit the middle school over without having uh another gym area uh that we can consistently use uh whether it's a multi-purpose smaller gym area or a larger full gym. Um but more so um in in a footprint change, right? Having another place to serve lunch and not having to go to three lunches at the high school will make our days better for everybody, right, for all the students and teachers and staff involved. I'm not saying that uh you know should we not pass a referendum and should we have to have some semblance of seventh and eighth grade going up anyway. We may have to do it without that space. But if we're planning a move and we're planning a reconfiguration, planning a space in that makes everything that much better. Not having to go to

047a third lunch and trying to move schedules is probably less of an option. The option would be do we want a bigger space or a smaller space? Both spaces will function as a service line or service food area for the uh sixth, seventh, and eighth graders. Okay, so just super quick recap. What's in Okay, you just told me all this stuff. What's included? What's included is on the left there. So what you're what you're not seeing are all the card things. Okay. So again, the orchestra and the multi-purpose gym. >> Yes. Water runoff. Uh culling your that would be your bag. >> Yes. >> Okay. Are you aware that that creek you're running it into that creek to the east? >> Mhm. >> And you're aware that that goes into a storm sewer. >> You're

048aware of all that? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Very good. >> Jared, we're saying that that would be a multi-purpose area. It would be a gym and a cafeteria. >> Ye. Yes. on the far right, you would have the ability to use that space and it would come with some storage. Yeah. >> Again, if you go with the smaller version, less storage of of fire materials and stuff, >> bigger version, a little bit more storage, uh, you know, a full full court uh, gymnasium, that kind of stuff. >> So, my is my understanding, right? May and I apologize if I'm confusing this at all, but maybe what I want to do here is I just jump right ahead to the allocart slide just to be real clear for everybody. So the spaces that we were talking

049about um they have the solid um red line circle or oval around them. So this is like sheet 20 I think. So just to be really clear. So an orchestra edition, right? that frees up space inside the building for additional middle school music use. Right? We talked about um kind of a classical education last time. Um that's what the cost would be for that. And then if you went with the gym, right, it's about uh it's double the cost of just what a multi-purpose room is. It's about a little bit more than double the square footage. Um, and then we also wanted to show you that in in either of the options, we're also thinking right, we know that you guys have great business um business support and connections in your community. Um, with either

050of the additions that we're we're just proposing, right? It's it's drawings on a on a paper right now. um that you would be able to to look at um accommodating some CTE or aggra science aggra business um additions um as part of this right we want to make sure that we're planning this so that there's flexibility for if there is support from the community that those things could continue to grow so um those are shown um with a dashed red line around them and the reason we have it dashed is because we believe that those are future opportunities are great connections that you guys already have with your your local industry and leaders. Um, and those are potentially where those those additions could go. So, it could be a separate middle school tech area. I

051don't know. Maybe it's designed in a way that it benefits >> greenhouse. >> It it could if it wants to. That's not how it's priced right now. Right. What's priced right now is um just, you know, physical walls and a and a roof. Um, and then you know it wouldn't this price also wouldn't be included if we wanted to load it with lots of equipment or anything like that but just the the physical structure. So that's a really good question but yeah aggra science. So maybe that's the um the the circle on the bottom so below the other one. So, we just wanted to share what future opportunities are and make sure that, you know, we shouldn't be designing a a space no matter what it is or when it might happen um if it

052happens that would ever kind of hold you back from doing something that that you or people wish to donate toward. Okay. So, so that was that that's the all the cart. Uh now, now let's let's go back to I guess let's go back uh yeah to this slide. So again, so our one-story option, uh, 16.5 million. Um, this includes the ESC and it includes that that one story edition and then the the items all listed on the left there. Any questions on this one? Okay, we'll go we'll go to the next one. So on the two, this is a twotory option, right? We like to show you different things. Um a big difference in this one obviously as I said twotory instead of one. Um the other wrinkle here is the ESC. Um here the

053ESC the first floor the administrative space we're actually identifying that to the north side of the plan. You want go ahead and click the or actually yeah actually go back. I'm sorry. Um it it's on the it's on the top of the plan now. So, right now, where where's the facilities? Where's the garage? Where's the maintenance? Um, where's all the places that you told me are below my feet downstairs here? Um, Miss Kelly, on the the left plan, there's a yellow box at the bottom. So, there's already some uh garage space in the southeast corner of the high school site. Well, what if we had a pre-engineered metal building that had conditioned air in it so that the things that needed to stay uh good longer or not rust if we're working on metal and

054that kind of thing, they could our plans stay in good order. Um well, what does it look like if it wasn't attached to the high school building, right? Because the other option, well, we're really starting to add all these things to the high school and maybe we're we're cutting off windows and we were just asked to not do that at the middle school. So, let's not do that again. So the next uh next slide. So that's the big change here on this one. Um the the other change is obviously the price. This one's um is more expensive. Um but it takes up less land. Um so maybe that's valuable for future opportunities. So twotory building addition with an elevator. It again frees up classroom space for middle school. It would also plan again conservatively to

055relocate a soccer field. Um, it could be a future connection to CTE if that continued to grow. Maybe maybe instead of a curve or a C, it's an L. It would include again the same middle school play area, pick up and drop off. Um, high school renovation for the things that I mentioned in the one-story option. And then again here, the ESC, an admin addition to the high school, right? So, hey, we got a really big meeting. We're we're busting at the seams in this room. Let's put up the sign. It says we're in the auditorium. Come on over. Welcome. Come on. Let's let's have some more people. Why not? Um and then uh the facilities building would be in the southeast corner of the site. >> So, uh just a little bit and we

056don't have uh detailed floor plans for you, but I just want to talk through a little bit what where students might look like they might be, okay? because sometimes that helps you. In this plan with the twotory addition, um the middle school would be in the addition um that uh upstairs and downstairs would each have one grade and then we would use the back portion of the upstairs of the um uh high school to have the third grade level. Okay? So they would be basically this side of the library. Okay? If you look at the other one where we had the one story, the one story, those would all become high school classrooms and we would take over the whole upstairs for sixth, seventh, and eighth grade and they would all be all upstairs at

057the library around the library. Um, and that's kind of what we've been looking at so far, right? So, there's definitely some separation. Um there would be uh separating doors uh from from the the the the middle excuse me the high schooler students um uh in those prices that you saw so that we would keep the population separated. Um we most likely still would work out of one administrative team. Okay. Uh for both buildings. So we wouldn't have a separate office for the middle school. >> Would there be two library media centers in that school? >> No. What we would do is we would take the current existing library media center. We would centrally locate the um the materials desk and we would say on this side of the desk are the middle school selections. That

058side of the desk high school selections and they would be kept separate. The middle schoolers would go into the back door of the library. The high schoolers would go into the front door of the library >> and square footage is being added on to that library or is just >> No, we would restructure how we would use it. >> Okay. Yep. >> We've recently done this in two other districts where there's really you create a front door for both groups. >> Okay. >> But where they're sharing it and then exactly the same thing, right, with um with resource materials. So, >> okay, >> perfect. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Um so, and again, these are the the allocart choices um if you wanted to. So what our hope is for this is it gives you

059some flexibility if right that the dollar amounts start getting over perhaps what you feel comfortable with or what you think your constituents are comfortable with. Um and uh it it just it gives you some opportunity to maybe uh maybe come to a dollar amount that you you feel better about. Um so then the next slide >> I'm sorry could I ask one more question? >> Please do please. Um the baseball field >> is that going to be relocated? >> So it's a softball field actually and um we don't we don't need to. >> Okay. >> Based on based on use on the site >> that that field is uh used um mostly for like PE classes. >> Okay. >> Uh to to go out and and and do some outdoor activities on that field. um

060they can walk just a little bit further and use the other area or whatever else they we can look at possible future needs. >> Okay, perfect. Thank you. >> Are there Yeah. Are there any other questions? I know we kind of went through that quickly. Um I wanted to be able to get through it so you could process it a bit. Um >> yeah, I have a question. So with the uh choice three and I'm not an even choice two. Yeah, >> there is no building um with the air conditioning out by the the pool building we have now. There is not on this >> or what? >> Uh the the new maintenance shed that would be Yes, that would be conditioned. So, we'd have air conditioning in there as well. >> No, what I

061mean is is that a part of choice two and three that building >> um when you say two and three that build the building. So in um if you go to slide 17 you go. >> So slide this. So in the onestory option um the facilities and the the ESC the administrative function that would all be connected right to the high school. So, it's in the twostory option where the it would be a pre-manufactured um building that would be conditioned. So, that's the only option that has that in it. >> And we would be able to house all of the high school students just at first level. >> Um so, the um Okay, so we had two Let me let me unpack this a little bit. So, again, we were just talking about the the

062ESC facilities building. So that would be the out building in the southeast corner. And then the question I just got was, is this proposed one-story addition that would house the displaced high school students so that we can move middle schoolers in? And the answer is yes. Yes. >> Right. And in the twostory one, right, there will be a number of classrooms that are high school classrooms still upstairs. We would only use a back number approximately 10 of the back classrooms. And then the twostory edition for the middle school in that model. >> So would we build walls? >> Yes, that's why I said they would be separating glass walls with doors, right? They and the high schoolers would stay in front of those doors and the middle schoolers would stay on this side of those

063doors. >> So we we call those compartmentalization. So we can have them close when we want, we can have them open when we want. If we want to time to a panic button or whatever, you can you can do that too. So yeah, very common in in schools today for different functions. >> Yeah. >> So the um I'm looking at uh the option C >> choice one with the one story and I'm so with the ESC and the storage maintenance where it's indicated there on the attached to the high school. >> Yeah. Uh, I mean, wouldn't that wouldn't that also create um a bit of a a logistics issue with um you know, moving moving uh supplies and materials and uh maintenance personnel back and forth versus having it off on the other the south

064side of >> So, what what how we looked at it was okay, from a a movement standpoint, where where are trucks coming to and from the building already >> and where are we already used to managing them? How can we keep one those away from our our student drivers or where the most amount of traffic's coming from? So, that's what kind of pushed us off to the west side of the building. We already have the loading and and and receiving right there in that back corner and we wanted to stay away from the main drop off. >> Um, does anybody have a a pointer? Because I can if you just look up here. Yeah, >> right here is where we do most of our receiving already. >> Yeah, three loading docks right here. >> So,

065h having access to more storage and and other things right here is is actually pretty good uh plan idea. >> Oh, good. So, we really we can tie in the loading function to support the high school as well as support. >> Otherwise, what we're saying is the stuff that we're doing downstairs. Yeah. >> In the other model, that's just the addition. >> Those go all the way down to that that metal building. >> Sure. because you got you got loading docks there. Yeah. To unload a truck more easily in than at the other. >> Yeah. >> And the other thing that we wanted to do with this option and why we are showing the ESC on the on the west side of the building in in both schemes is because we want to be clear

066where the high school entrances and if you're coming for high school business versus there's many many different people that come to this building for functions that they don't need to interact with kids. So why bring them potentially to the same door? So if we can keep that activity on that side of the building and try to separate them as much as possible. Try >> the main entrance becomes the main entrance for both middle school and high school. >> Um it can but it can be it can be set up um differently for how it's utilized. But yes, I would imagine that um when the the bell rings and school is in session, absolutely. Um but perhaps before and after school, maybe buses are going right back and loading right from where the middle school is

067or perhaps maybe even parents. And um in our plan, it actually includes a driveway, right? Um that's outside of the CTE spaces. So we're not going through where students are moving cars and stuff. or outside of that to make sure that that traffic can always flow. And that will also act as um uh emergency access uh for fire department or for police if anybody ever needed to get back there. There'll be a a code requirement that we have to meet. So, let's let's make sure that it can do kind of dual purpose. >> Um and and the the good thing with this is, you know, we we change flexibility within how students arrive uh to different buildings usually anyway. I mean, we've had many different plans of even at the middle school, hey, this grade

068goes to this door for the start of the day. These grades go to these doors for the start of the day, and that's where the different drop off patterns are, right? So, we're trying to maximize different drop off patterns. What will change is we will have one administration for the whole building, but there'll be an assistant principal for the middle school, right? Just one building principal for all of it, right? Um we will have separate drop off and pickup times because we can't possibly do all the middle school and high school students at the same time. So there'll be a staggered start. You know um the middle school will start 20 minutes earlier and their day 20 minutes earlier. High schoolers will start up 20 minutes later and their day 20 minutes later. But that

069will account for the traffic that has to go back and forth, right? And of course, if you have both middle schooler and high schooler students, you know, um the the high school student can wait to enter the building uh at the at the beginning of the morning and the middle school student can wait a little bit at the end of the day till the pickup comes, right? Or or waits for the older uh student to help drive them home, right? So, we've we've thought of some of those things, too, um to make sure that we're planning for traffic and other patterns. >> Um question for Sarah. Does the increase in mill rate per million per year is that linear or exponential? Is that able to be calculated? Because I feel like that helps with communicating.

070>> Really, we're just talking about year one. Yeah. When we're looking at it because so many things change. >> Sure. >> Um the if you look the the projected debt schedules are included in there, so you kind of see what the payments would be, but what that impact will be is hard to say. >> Yeah. And honestly, because there are some choices yet, >> um, even if we weren't talking about options C that have a consolidation and an addition, right? If we were talking about option B, right, we gave you the amount for all the level ones, right, to do all of those, uh, and that would be 30 million, right? >> If you said, well, that's great, but we can only do half those. we can only do 15 million. Really, what we're what

071we're moving into now, right, the questions that you're asking are going to start putting us into a workshop phase. >> So, you know, for the next hour, I'd like us to start talking about options that we've seen here and start doing the jigsaw puzzle of what would we like to see? How much of an operational question do we need to ask? Remember, if you plan on staying in five buildings, we need more operational dollars. We can work those operational dollars back down if you would like to do some budgetary constraint items like consolidating buildings. If you do that, then maybe you have the option to do more capital, right? So, so it's a it's going to be this balancing test and you have to decide kind of what you think that mill rate impact might

072be that you want to start targeting, right? And if that mill rate impact is only 42 cents or whatever it was for the 2.5 million operating, then we don't need to do other options because that's that's going to be the lowest one. If it's around $2, you can do option C and have six million approximately, right? Operating dollars. So there roughly. So there there's things in between that you can think about look at. We want to give you as many options available. Um the two things that I want you to remember to consider is the first and most important thing is operational. What do you think we need to do to maintain operationally where we need to be to get us out three, five, seven years? Because that's a real number and that's the most

073important number right now, right? That you have to talk about tonight. Secondly, if you want to start addressing maintenance needs and or consolidation needs, you have other options and and numbers and what those look like as well. Okay. So, I'll leave that to you now as a board. We're here as your resource to ask questions about um there's a sheet here, a planning sheet for you uh to utilize uh with different scenarios. Um that comes with also your note sheet that you took. Um but you can look at what kinds of things you'd like to do and the rationale and considerations for each option A, option B, option C. that you might think about and utilize. But our goal is to try to get to again no more than three questions we would like as

074a survey out. That may be our first survey out. That may be our first and last survey out depending on how good you got and uh close information you got back from the community, right? We may be uh doing some refining over the next two months uh with different question sets that we keep putting out um and other other different meetings. But uh for the next hour uh we have that. I'd like to save about 10 minutes though at the end of that hour to talk about next steps and community involvement discussion. Okay. So really you got about 40 minutes to do a little bit of workshopping. Then we're going to take about 10 minutes to talk about timeline moving forward and opt options and opportunities to make connections with our community through community engagement

075sessions. >> Can we ask questions in this time? >> I will I will. Yeah. And I'll let Craig uh uh handle the, you know, speaking and whatever else. So I, you know, get the ball rolling with whoever's going to start and, you know, Craig can start running that part of the meeting of where do we go and how do we refine, we'll be here for resources for you. Melissa, did you have something you want to say? >> Oh, I was just going to say, so what we just handed out, it does look shockingly similar to what you had before, but thought that if you had taken a bunch of notes, like I like to write a lot of notes. So if you had done that on the first sheet we gave you, I actually have

076as many as three copies that you can have of this very same one. Um, if I know you're being asked to build two to three scenarios. So, if you want to build three different scenarios and have different Thank you. Whoopsies. Upside down. Um, and you want to have different check boxes and write something out for yourself. I'm happy to come around and pass out, you know, two more for each of you or whatever. We also, again, we know everybody's brain works a little bit differently and and process works differently. So, I also created a scenario summary sheet. So, if you prefer to just, you know, take a bunch of notes and do stuff and it would help you at the end of your time to make yourself a really two to three final ones. I

077also have a preferred scenario sheet. So, I don't want to clutter up your desks with stuff you don't need right now. Uh, so we'll let you get going and happy to >> I will also share again that on the back side of this one are those alle cart options >> and option C. Yep. Then the alle carts too. So, it is two-sided uh just like your notes page was. >> Thank you. >> I have a question and maybe I'm mistaken, but I recall this last meeting that it was requested that there was a mockup of how much it would but the expense would be to expand leap. Uh just so we had those numbers readily available for the community to say we understand you want to hang on to this building, but this was this

078is the logistics of having to do that. I was wondering if >> um I will while while you guys are working I will I will grab the square footages that we had because just to bring everybody else back up to speed, right? We talked about LEAP and it's a half section school. So yeah, I think we should we should show the community what it would be if you wanted to increase it to a certain section is um so in our exploration what we had was how do we make it a just a single section school because it's about a half right now. >> Okay. So for everybody that just means there's um the classrooms are shared. So like kindergarten's with first grade, second with third, that that kind of thing. So if there's a one

079section school, then there's there's one classroom per grade level. So we want to see what is it if we do that. And then also if we went beyond that, our recommendation because that building isn't structured to go up like I mentioned, the one story could be >> um that honestly you would you would be redoing the facility out there. So you'd have to build new. >> You'd have to build new. And the reason I And that's it's very expensive. Yeah. The reason I share that is because we want to preserve as much land as possible. And what you're also seeing is right if you look in our our step one report, how much a roof is. >> Um our recommendation is always to to build up. Heat rises. You're spending less on a roof. Your

080kids are in a more compact footprint. They're closer to the intervention or to the front office. And then we're preserving as much land as possible. So I will I will kind of I'll zone in here. I'll get the numbers that we've we have. Okay. And then uh Shannon, you and I will talk a little bit and bring that. >> Okay. Okay. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> So it seems to me that operational and capital are extremely interrelated. because of like option C with some kind of new print newer footprint at the high school shuttering a couple of our elementary schools. it would seem to me on the surface to make the overall operation of the district more streamlined. Am I correct in that assessment or is that just a perception? >> So I I

081think Craig said it a little bit differently in our fiscal meeting. We know that we have buildings with spaces that are becoming available and with the possibility of declining enrollment, we will continue to have um uh you know, if we don't consolidate our footprint, we'll continue to have uh more buildings with more space available. Uh and we'll have to upkeep those buildings. One of the things about consolidating that goes handinhand with an operational is if we're um consolidating into fewer spaces. Uh we we may have just as much square foot uh but we're we're um updating some space from very old smaller building space to add on to our largest and newest building and it would be new construction. So, we're swapping out maintenance dollars for new construction dollars. That helps us over year-over-year, right?

082Um, so that helps us to be able to say operationally we can be in a better spot. >> Okay. for our day-to-day operations. >> Um, if we put money into maintenance dollars, um, we know that is if we're deferring maintenance, the longer we defer the maintenance, the more expensive it will be to do the maintenance when we actually do it, right? And so that's also operational dollars that you have to think about as future operational dollars, right? Uh so the sooner you can do that maintenance um the cheaper it's going to be because two things we know it gets more expensive to do it because of inflation and the more disrepair it is the bigger the fix is going to be so the more it'll cost later right so the sooner you do maintenance um

083when it's scheduled right and I'm not saying do it too soon because you have life left in things to fix right um so you want to get the maximum life out of those things that's why we're not doing things that are on our schedule that are phase two or phase three, right? Those have some life expectancy left in them and we can do them later. But phase one, zero to five years, those should be fixed. And if we wait, they become a much larger expense when they're phase two and phase one. >> And you know, if you're projecting 2027 before we do any of that stuff, we've already projected another two or three years down the road. If you if you say no to, right? Yeah. >> Well, regardless if we say if they say

084yes. Yes. I mean, they're going to come due >> immediately. I mean, >> yeah. >> I think the first question is, are we comfortable about closing schools? >> I think before we ask that, we have to ask what that everybody talks about how much money we're going to save when we close these school. Nobody nobody's telling us how much money we're going to actually save. So we know that it's going to cost if we closed Lincoln Leaps insurers, it would cost 2.5 million to button all those down. Nobody's saying what we're going to save. Where's the savings? >> Sorry. Um I just want to point out one one thing that um the the numbers are there actually. Um the $24.2 2 million uh for level one maintenance items. Uh that that is that is actually

085down from 30.92 million. Uh so that's about a savings of about $6 million in level one maintenance costs >> and that's just the maintenance cost. Then there will be daily operations costs. Um and I don't know do you have those with you here s Sarah? >> I don't for three buildings now. Um, and also decisions go into that savings because staffing is a huge part of the cost of operating each building. It's the majority of the cost. And so those are decisions that have to be made too before we could say for sure what the savings would be. >> How how would we change staffing? >> Can we put a ballpark scenario together internally? We we can um once you put together like some of these options, we we we have a better idea of

086how we can aim towards that and give you a a better number, a better ballpark number. >> Okay. >> No, I was uh that's what I was going to comment about. I think that if we're talking about closing schools and the savings that are associated with it, the the vast majority of operational costs are payroll. And so if you're consolidating and you're taking all of that payroll that is in those other schools and you're moving it to a new facility, you're still, you know, that's the majority of your operation right there. So I I don't know how interrelated they are. That that was kind of a followup to your comment because that's what I was thinking initially um quite a few months ago. But it seems to me that if you're shutting down, it's more

087like the long-term return on investment is going to be there. But short term, I think it's only going to increase costs for home owners. >> Well, I'm not sure that's necessarily true because I I think you're the expert on these numbers. I I don't have the number. >> Okay. I'm going to show I'm going to share with you how. >> Let me finish my statement. >> Okay. Yep. I thought you were aiming towards me at that. Okay. Go. But it would seem to me if we if we closed the school and we had x number of teachers in it, we brought those students into an existing school that we we're going to keep. I I suspect not all teachers and staff get moved. Um because I don't think that I think that in a building

088that already isn't at capacity, you're going to put more students in. You're going to spread them out. The teacher may have go from 20 students to 25 students or some and so you may find that um unfortunately we don't carry all that staff forward. >> Um and you also are going to have I would assume savings at administrative level because you aren't going to bring in an additional >> that that's why I said a tell It will tell us a lot as to what you're aiming at. Remember I said there's everything from like a 42% mill rate um discussion to a $2 mill rate discussion. If we looked at the $2 mill rate discussion, you're telling me, Jared, we're we're going to give you or we're going to try to through a referendum give you

089all the operational dollars you need to run the district as we're running it right now. Right. You're also saying that if I combine that with an $18 million build, because that's what the $2 is, right? You're going to have the $6 million operational and an $18 to20 million build, right? I know that you want me to maximize staffing, maximize our ability to do programming, and you're going to give us a nice good space to do it in. Right? That comes at $2. If you say, "Hey, we want to consolidate because that makes sense, right? We can use uh new uh dollars, our our new dollars to build new construction versus fixing old construction, right? But in order to get that, um we don't think a $2 mill rate is going to work, but a $1.5

090uh you 50 mill rate is something that's much more attainable." Then I have to say, okay, we're going to do the consolidation. I still need the 18 to 20 million, but Sarah and I need to maybe work it back down to about four four and a half million on the operational side, which means we have to do some staffing changes and some programming changes. They're not going to be real big, you know, but we can make some changes, do some shared administration, maybe have uh high school teachers teach some middle school stuff, middle school teachers who are licensed teach high school stuff, right? and um operationally um look at doing some expenditure restraints on staffing and uh have uh some programming possible restraints and we get into that model, right? So, so really you will

091give us direction and we will come back with here's how much that's going to cost, here's what we think we can do to fit that. Okay. >> So, do we have any idea? Let's say just for sake of argument we did a $2 mill rate. Do we have any idea and we know what the mill rate has been doing? So you've shown us that if we did that, do we have any idea what the impact would be on uh the typical property owner house owner here in Watertown? >> $2. I mean, if we were going to say um the average home was $200,000, it's $400. >> $400 a year increase. >> That's helpful to know. >> Yeah. >> So I don't know if that's the average, but that's Well, well, if it's if it's if

092it's $300,000 is the average home, then it's $600, right? So, I don't know what the exact mean uh medium median is for. >> I think it's about $250 >> at least. Yeah. Right now, >> so getting back to your question, are we okay with closing schools? I I'm still not convinced that's a good idea, but I would like to be able to understand when I'm discussing something like this with the public who is going to make this decision. The first thing they're going to ask is, well, what's that going to save us? Do we even know? And so I want to be able to bring forward an option that I don't like, but we need to have these numbers to to present to the public and saying this is one option. This is another option

093even if we don't like it. So that's that's to answer your question. That's my opinion. >> Here's a lady that uh sitting here was part of closing the school. she knew what the feedback was there. >> Well, it wasn't fun. I mean, we closed conquered 20 years ago. Um, like we looked at all the numbers and the we had meetings out there. Those were tough meetings to meet those parents face to face at a in a local school that has been the heartbeat of their community for years. They did all kinds of things in that building and it was kind of like a community center, you know, for them. it was and um but we had to there wasn't a there wasn't a reasonable alternative to it. Um and we had to just do the

094best we could to help them understand it. But I do think I and I'm not sure I think this is an appropriate question. We've been talking at length about how do we get more students here? How do we get more students here? I don't know what sells best. So there's a part of me that says I love looking at this idea about the high school because it seems to be to be to me to be innovative to to some degree. Okay. And it so it's new to me. I'm not saying I'm sold on it. I'm just saying that can be a perception. I don't know. is having five um older elementary buildings sell better to the public when they look at Watertown and seeing Riverside, you know, separate and the high school separate. What's the

095what's the community? What's the outside community say when they look at Watertown? Wow, I love the fact that they have five elementary schools that are part of the community. >> The disc, >> I think that's something you got to talk about. >> The discussion goes to academic excellence and responsiveness. see not building. >> Yep. >> Go ahead, Carl. >> I hate to say this, but I have numerous properties in this town that I rent out. And the major reason for them renting a piece of property is because they're close to a certain school. >> Interesting. >> And those people and you take every people out in Lebanon, you close that school and you aren't going to get a vote for any referendum. I know them crows. I'm one of them. >> So, um I don't

096like the idea of closing the school. I do not like that idea. But the thing is the way we're going, the way we're pointed, we're almost going to have to. And now we're going to have to answer that question is going to be the first one. We're going to ask you, hey, give us some more money so we can close your school. >> Yeah. We're not going there. >> Yeah. How are we going to do that? Well, we need we need to lay out the options to the public just fully transparently and say >> these are these are the budget options >> and you know nobody's done that before. >> It's going to have to be thwarted very good. >> Yeah. >> I I think you guys told us earlier that PWA has done something

097similar. >> Maybe we should take a look at Pwwaukee. >> See what they did. >> Yeah. To see what it's like. >> Did send a little picture to us. PP walking >> like their layout, right? >> yeah, it's it's quite a quite an ordeal. That's that's probably not in the cards for us. >> But did they close schools in order to do that? >> They had that's a higher rent district too. >> Oh, >> I'm not sure if they closed school. That wasn't really discussed when we were >> they have a campus. Um, for those of you that didn't uh get a chance to see, I think we had maybe included a map in our um off their website in the June presentation, they have all of their school buildings on one campus. So you

098come well you can get at it a couple different oneway roads coming in or whatever but then they you know literally go around a big square and they've got everything from they have a early elementary section to a like middle intermediate more than their middle school than their high school but it's just it's kind of like our table right here you know you just keep on going and you get all the way around. I think that came up in conversation when we were talking about a a one campus solution where there would be an elementary school >> nearby as well. >> Yeah, >> possibly to the north. There's land up to the north. >> Wildly unpopular during the referendum. >> Okay. So, do you mind if >> Hold on a second. Um, was it uh

099Julain? >> I think Julian's first. >> I'll be I'll be brief. So, it's my understanding that um the district works as as diligently as possible to put the students into the elementary school closest to them. But I know for a fact that is not 100% because I know people who wanted a certain school and couldn't get it. No matter where they lived, they ended up at another place. >> Sometimes, right? >> So, it's not >> sometimes that happens. The only way we can change that is if you guys were to make attendance areas and force the issue. >> If we said you had to let them go. >> You you you made attendance areas. >> That would force the issue. We would say uh no, you live in the attendance area of Shars. You have

100to go to Shers. >> So yeah, that would backfire. We wouldn't want to go there, >> right? >> Sounds like we don't want to go anywhere. >> Okay. I'm Thanks, Dan. I'm not adding to the conversation about closing schools, not closing schools. I'm not saying we don't need to discuss that but I am going to discuss choice two for option C and choice one for option C. Is it possible how often do you guys utilize the storage space in this building? Are you frequently going every day? I mean they use it every day. >> Right. So I'm I is it doable from a architecture standpoint to um do a twostory for the middle school but use the layout for the EF ESC and storage for choice one. >> Yes, you could >> just because like

101it's they're going to need a little golf cart. you you could do that instead of having the ESC at the top by the orchestra, you could move it down there in either option, right? that it would come with a different dollar amount, but it would >> right like instead of it being the ESC and then the one level solution with the hall, >> just have it be the twostory solution without having the storage shed out. >> You hear what she's saying, Deon? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, look at it in the current configuration. Basically, how do we how do we put a basement um under the ESC or or is it at grade? >> No, no, no, no. That's not what she's saying. >> One, you have the ESC in the front and then you added

102on in the drawing storage. >> She's talking about moving it from the band area down. You can absolutely you could do that. >> Do you know what I'm saying? I hear you. >> Yeah. So that the ESC doesn't have to be on on Right. I'm showing it on the west side, the left side, in both. >> It could be where it's shown in option >> I'm trying to make sure I got the name right in in the one story or the two story. It's >> you you could put the ESC either place. >> Yeah, >> it doesn't make a difference. >> Okay. >> But it will come with a little bit of a dollar. No matter what we go with, I think it's I don't think it would be the best choice to have the

103storage that the ESC is highly dependent on like >> like a car ride away personally. >> Oh, okay. So, you're commenting on the inefficiency if it was in a remote building. >> She Yeah, she likes the idea of it being all together. Yeah. Not having a separate remote building. >> Yeah. Just because we might have to approve a golf cart purchase. >> There's some benefits to having separate though. >> Yeah. Kevin, which do you which Kevin, which do you think you'd prefer? >> It would kind of be a horse piece. So, the the the storage that's utilized underneath here is what we distribute to all the build or buildings that don't have storage for the goods themselves. The high school has the ability to hold most of the materials that we use in itself, but

104we don't have those spaces in our elementary schools and for a bunch of the middle school stuff. So from that site, if we're distributing it to the to the middle school campus to the elementary schools, if it's attached to the high school or if it's not, it it's kind of a horse and piece there. Um, >> even in the morning when they're doing drop off and pickup. I'm asking seriously like logistically. >> Most of the time what happens is our our delivery driver loads up at 6:00 in the morning and heads out. So we we missed those times and and we can strategically do that. One other thing to point out too is that a lot of the things in the option uh where we build it by the loading dock and things like that,

105the loading dock I think is a level water replacement. I mean it's it's deteriorated pretty badly. The ice storage like so a lot of the costs of moving that would probably be things that we'd be looking at maintenance only anyway. >> Okay. Um, I I think there's great advantages to having the building out away from students where semis can come in and load in separately. I also think there's great things to rebuilding the floating dock spaces all at once and being able to refurbish those. So, I I would think that there's it would be advantageous and disadvantageous with either option. So, >> okay. Well, you guys are going to be using it. So, do you like it connected or not connected? uh you know uh answer back to you is which one do you do

106you care how much it costs right >> should it be the the less of the two >> more expensive or less expensive >> that's probably the only difference I guess since there's no preference for the functionality >> although perhaps the safety security is a preference right so what um Mr. Sugo just mentioned is it might be good that semi there's less semi traffic at the front of the building. So >> perhaps that's if safety and security for students isn't is an answer. Maybe that's the answer. >> Go ahead, Carl. >> Well, if we're going to get rid of some schools, I'm not for leveling them and going and spending all that money. just put them up for bids and bid them out and let somebody else worry about them. >> So yeah, so that's that's

107what we would try to do. >> Okay. So, the reason that we would carry the the money in to raise them and return it to buildable space is if we weren't uh successful after two or three years, we still maintain the option to not have a vacant building just sit, right? We could return it to something that might be something that everybody else would want. um if we do sell it, we could use those dollars that we had in reserve to do some uh other uh maintenance or renovation ideas. So there they're you're building yourself in a little bit of a cushion. Um if we sell, we will get some some money. So the first thing we will do is try to sell them. >> If they don't sell, we're talking about do we want

108to have an empty building just sit forever. >> What do you expect to get on this building? >> It depends. Like I I don't know. I'm not a realtor. I don't know what the market is right now, right? Uh so I I honestly don't know what a full city block in this building would be, right? I would have to go out to a realtor and say, "What do you think?" You know, >> I know what I'd pay for it tomorrow. >> I'd pay $5 for it. >> Would I pay much much more for that? >> Okay. >> For this building. >> Yeah. >> Because what what can be done with it? >> Yeah. You know, and I feel the same thing with schools because they're going to take them schools and they're going to renovate

109them in the housing. >> Oh, absolutely. Like I um at my last school district, right, we didn't have a problem uh selling the properties that we closed. We didn't have one was a child care center, another became a church. Like I mean, we didn't have a single problem selling those buildings. >> Exactly. >> Some school districts, they sit for a while. That's right. >> Right. Uh >> I don't think it'll sit for long and long. >> I I don't know. Do you think that the extra 2.5 million for closure would be a sticking point for people agreeing to >> I I really think Yeah. >> Do you think that would be a stick point for people? >> You bet. For closing. Yeah. You bet. I I can share something. I' I've been a part of

110a couple different um referendums that some were successful in selling and and others weren't and they had to raise the building. um what those districts did and what you can do with the verbiage and how the resolution is written is that it gives you the flexibility that if someone came forward and said, "Hey, I want to buy it." Well, then you don't have to borrow that money that you would need to restore the land, right, to raise the building. So, it gives you some flexibility, but at least you could tell your community like, "Look, we're we're not going to leave um an empty building in town. Um, and we're hopeful that someone wants to come and buy it and take it off our hands and it leaves the flexibility up to the board and um,

111you know, you can even tell yourselves or set a set a deadline yourself. Okay, well, if we get to this point, then we're going to have to raise it and we'll use that dollar. Otherwise, you don't just don't borrow that money. But there's a way that you can structure the language that gives you the flexibility to make that choice later. But if you don't allocate those dollars to start, then it's going to be just >> really hard. Yeah, you can't >> possible to find that later on. But to um to Sam's point, um yeah, what's the tipping point for the to any total dollar amount? >> Yeah. So my question is um is the I mean because we in fiscal we had the um projections for um a $6 million uh ask is that that

112that is that the new is that the status quo or is is the status quo the 4.5 million. So if we did 4 and a.5 million, right, we would have to make some some budgetary restrictions, right? >> 6 million would have us operate in all of the buildings as they are right now operating currently how we operate them. Same programs, everything else, right? That that that's basically what it would cost. If we went to 4 and a.5 million, we would have to make some changes. Those changes may include looking at restructuring um some of where students are going. >> Okay. >> Can we get a Can we get a breakdown of those changes? >> Well, so I I'll give you an idea. Yeah. >> So, it's if it's like 4.5 million, right? And so we

113we have 1.5 million less. We would probably get away with just closing uh Leap and Lincoln and distributing those to the other elementarymentaries, >> right? Okay. >> And that's how we would restructure. >> Okay. If you're talking more like three to two and a half million is the only operating dollars we get, we would have to um look at a model where seventh and eighth grade go up to the high school. We would use the middle school as an elementary and we would close more buildings, but we would do it without any of the the the additions you saw. We would do it with the current place. It would be tight. Class sizes would go up, right? and we would have to restructure programming, right? If we if we did it with zero, right, uh

114we would have to do all of that restructuring plus a lot higher class sizes and many more programmatic changes. Okay, that's with zero operational dollar. >> What's the average class size now? >> So, um Sarah, what is it? >> It depends on the building, honestly. Um, Leap has smaller class sizes. You go on over to Shur, there's some smaller ones just because of the dual language. You go to Douglas, they're going to be bigger, but >> it's like giving me a number. >> 16 to 18 for the elementary >> a little bit more than 18 in certain buildings, Carl. It could be about 20, 21, 22 in certain buildings. Other buildings might have 13. >> So, if you guys look at our class size policy, right? If you look at our class size policy, thank

115you. I didn't I just don't have them on me, right? And this is not something I keep in my my brain. >> So here are you can read off to my own. >> Um so uh um if if you look at like no referendum at all, I wouldn't be coming back to you and asking you to change our class size policy because we most likely will have some high school class sizes in the 30 to one range. actually is. >> Okay. And some middle school class sizes in that 27 28 range. >> If we have a small operational referendum around two and a half to to 3 million, we would still be bumping them up. We it would be about 27 to one at the high school and you know so on. So it just

116it it really depends on what you guys said. I will have to come back with you and not only like you said what's the savings cost. I have to tell you operationally what it will look like, >> right? Yes. >> And and so, you know, and and don't worry, we can do that, but we we don't want to do that for every option under the sun. We want you guys to to tell us what you're aiming for because whether or not you make the decision to close buildings or not is a huge step in how we cost that out. Where I was going with the question though is um you know when we say status quo, we need to c we need to compare apples to apples a little bit. And status quo to me

117and maybe maybe that might mean something different to other folks that are on this table. The status quo to me means a $6 million ask for a operational referendum and a $31 million capital improvement referendum over 20 years to maintain what we have. That that's level one tier one level one basic necessities for for maintaining their buildings within the next five years. So, so that to me is baseline and to b and if I'm looking at the bar projections and I'm I'm I'm trying to get a rough estimate for for mill rate impact. Um the one the the 7 million or 6 million being a 1.1 one $147 mill rate and let's just say a uh tier one level uh of uh maintenance of 30 $31 million probably being roughly about a what a 43

118cent mill rate impact. That's about a nine a$1.90. >> I think that 30 million would be around the 60 cent mark. >> Okay. So, it might it's even more. >> It is because of in fiscal we've kind of covered this. >> Okay. >> Um that that debt response that you're seeing if you're trying to take one sheet and and the other sheet, right, where this debt is off. >> Yeah. >> You're you can't utilize that twice, right? You can't utilize that discount twice. Where is it in a scenario where there was a $45 million capital referendum and the mill rate was only8. >> So status quo then that would be $2.7 roughly status quo. That doesn't change anything. We still we still have the same footprint. That's the same programming. That's everything. Uh and yet

119we still would have to con, you know, we'd have to still come to our our tax base and say, you know, if you want this, you have to um be able to fork over $2.70 uh $2.7 um per thousand for for tax increase. Now through these other projections um that Barrett provided um we have a couple other scenarios where um they indicate like what is a what is a a $2 impact to our mill rate become and that includes a $4.5 million reoccurring uh operational referendum and a $50 million facilities referendum. That's a $2 impact. Uh the difference between um the difference between a $50 million facilities referendum and an $18 million facilities referendum is roughly about 20 cents. So you you're getting a lot uh you're getting down the road with what our community

120perhaps needs. you're saving about 7 cents per mill rate if you go with a $50 million facilities improvement $50 million um facilities referendum to me to me that seems like we need to explore that option. Um I don't know thoughts. >> Yeah. >> 30 million $50 million. >> Well 50 million. Okay. So if you let's just say option C. You take a onetory edition. Uh, let's say it's a twotory edition and let's say you pick the alikart orchestra and the middle school middle school gym that's about another 5 million. You add all of that up plus you still have to add in the level one maintenance that comes out to 50 million. >> He's talking about having adding the level one maintenance to Riverside, um, Webster and Douglas. >> Yeah, I see. those three >>

121because those those wouldn't be in just the option C. >> Can I give you my thoughts from being in a lot of schools >> over 25 years and being in schools that are new and being in schools that are old? Um, for one thing, when you're thinking about something like this, in my mind, I'm thinking, what do you want in the long run? not right right now, but what do you want to see in the long run? Secondly, I've been in some really nice schools that have been built and I've talked with people and they said exactly what you're saying here. Boy, we went through a hard time trying to close the old schools, but we're glad we did. In most every case that I've talked to someone, and I've been in many schools where

122that the new school has been put in, they've said that, "Boy, it was rough, but boy, I'm sure glad we have this now." And the community was glad after a while, too. I mean, you have to get through by that spot. And do you think about the next few years where you're going to have to be coming back again and again, or do you look for something down the road that's going to be drawing people into the whole town, the whole city? Because I was thinking of this, thinking, well, this is this isn't just the school. The school is going to bring people in or not bring people in. Why are they leaving Watertown to go to other districts around? Can we keep them? I know that's a lot of money, but I'm looking at

123the big picture down the road for the whole city. I guess that's that's my mind on this and being in other schools for a long time. Usually, almost every time, it's like we got by that hard spot and it worked out better for us. So, I'm just laying that out for you. >> Absolutely. I guess I don't know how else to read this except except for you know um making some hard decisions to consolidate a and investing in um you know making an improvement to our our high school and our middle school. It it it it nets the taxpayer savings long term. >> What uh what mill rate impact are you guys thinking is something that people will get behind? >> I don't think it's the mill rate so much as it's the the value

124in what we're buying. >> Okay. What it comes out to with the mill rate is >> between 10 and $50 a month if you're looking at the low end of the projections versus the high end if you're looking at an average home price. That's 50 50 bucks a month is something that I think a lot of people would be like, "Oh man, really?" I that's the that's what I hear from people when I talk to them about their about their uh mortgage rates. Um, but at the end of the day, there's a number of other factors that I think are heavier, more heavily weighed than than the mill rate. I think going as low as possible with mil rate helps. Um, but I think that, you know, like we've talked about in the past, having

125here's exactly what it's going to look like if we make cuts, like very detailed what the cuts are going to look like. um not just like hey I might have to do this but like this is realistically what my plan is because if all goes without change that's what's going to happen and then like Craig talked about I think that doing uh operational with consolidation is helpful because at the end of the day you still you still need to analyze that. >> I think we talked about do we kick the can down the road. >> Yeah. So, I was talking to Sarah before the meeting just talking about some numbers and things and we were talking about um and she put the numbers in there for declining enrollment. There's an uptick for one year in

126that in your forecast. >> Um not not not it's not not huge but it's it's an uptick. I personally don't see unless something unless we are able collectively in this community and I hope we are to to really start making water ton more attractive to people I think we're fighting an uphill battle. Okay. Because um the pool of people that we have available to come any to any community in Wisconsin is dwindling. We have depressed fertility rates that are seriously impacting schools. Um, we have counties in this state that are in demographic winters where more people are dying every year than are being born. >> And, uh, by the way, Jefferson and Dodge are right on the edge of that. Yes. Okay. So, realistically, we we don't see, and I think I think Sarah would

127agree, we we aren't forecasting some kind of a big surge. And in 5 years, it would seem to me if we don't make some kind of consolidation soon, we're just delaying it >> because I think we're going to have more empty spaces in more schools. Well, in five years, if we lose a percent year over year, we'd be down another 167 students. So, we're already under 205 under the standard the district would like to hold and we're going to lose another 167 in the next 5 years. >> It it assumes that, you know, our community doesn't continue to grow, which I don't know that that's true. It looks like there's a lot of growth on the south. >> Yes, I agree. They are building homes. It was when we first moved here in 2000, Watertown

128was growing and it got over 25,000 there at one point I think and then all of a sudden it went south and I thought in my mind I wonder what that was with the bypass or what was it that did that. Um people are you I I saw the numbers about people leaving Watertown School and going others. I thought why don't we ask them why they left? I'm sure you did. Do you did you find out? We we did do the um RO first study and we can provide that information. There's a it's a it's a multiaceted answer >> and whether you got the real answer or not. >> No, I think it's pretty accurate actually. >> Okay. Yeah, open enrollment a lot of times it it it is sometimes quality of education, but I

129found over the years a lot of what happens people that live on the edge of a district, it's sometimes more convenient for them to go to an adjacent school district for their transportation needs and things like that. Well, it's not always because the current school district is deficient. It can be. >> Yeah, that's what I thought. You take somebody who lives in the district, but they're closer to Huesburg, >> right? >> They may want to go to Huesburg. >> Well, you know, and I I live on Huesford Road, right? It Aonia Elementary is a lot closer than Lincoln Stem, but my kid goes to Lincoln STEM because I'm the superintendent, right? But but but what I'm saying is with open enrollment, I I could have open enrolled them to Exonia, right? Elementary and the middle

130school is just about equate distance, right? like you know from there uh it wouldn't it wouldn't take a heartbeat more to go one place or the other they're coming here why I'm the superintendent here and we want to be part of this community. >> Yeah I figured that was one reason on that part side I think >> you know >> question is and I I it's it's in the cards we're going to have to close schools it's as simple as that. I'm glad you said that. >> If we're looking down the road, >> I don't like the idea of it, but and so do a lot of other people, but now we got to convince them other people. >> And how do you convince them? >> Yeah. >> That we're going to close your school,

131yet we want we're going to do this and we want more money. >> Well, we're gonna be talking about that next. >> Okay, very good. >> Be talking about how we're going to reach >> Yeah, those community engagement sessions. Does anybody want to put um a possibility on the table for a survey question? >> That should be one of them. >> Well, we we can get to those kind of survey questions when we talk about community engagement because you're right. We may want to survey about other things, right? Uh but but is there an idea of a question here >> about how how the community would feel about consolidating the middle and the high school would be an appropriate question. I feel >> but that begs too that you also have to talk about the

132elementary. >> But if you if you if you ask that question right asking that question with a plan of how it looks >> is different than just asking the question. Right. >> Right. I well I suggested that because that is the plan that's been presented tonight. Correct. Like two options. >> Yeah. So >> of how it would be laid out of combining the middle and high school. >> Yeah. So if you were going to put a question out that had that as an option, which option do you like the best and what addition what what from the um uh the the alakart do you think is necessary and and which level which level would you look at? I I don't think that you can ask that question without invol involving what happens to the elementary

133schools. >> Right. That's that's the element. >> No, we'll we'll explain it. Right. In the in the question, right? What we would say is here's an option. This option includes these things, right? We would close these buildings, right? This is what it would look like. There would be literature that says, "Yeah, do you like this option or do you like this option?" And you would say this option costs this much. This option cost >> That's correct. >> And I and I and I would and I would hope we would have some information about possible savings, right? That that it would come with >> and also what's already been done to reduce things, >> right? Specifically >> and and that's why I said it's really important for us to start getting something get that funnel down

134so that we can do the rest of that work, right? In this vision, if this happened, option C happened and the middle school and the high school combined, we would move to a district with a middle and high school and then three elementary schools. >> That's correct. >> Or would the long range plan be to have one large elementary school and the middle school? >> We're not talking a a long range plan, right? Because because I think that's part of what confused people before. I think we we say here's the options that we're looking at now. >> Five years from now, we can discuss, do we need to do something different than these three three elementaryaries? >> Do do we want to build one larger elementary and close one or two of these down? You

135know, I mean, like, you know what I mean? And and where does that happen? Does that happen at the high school? Do we buy some land in the We can do that five years from now, >> right? And hopefully I'll still be here and I can help you through it, >> right? And if these guys do a good job, maybe they'll still be here here and they can help you through that later. So I I would if it was me I would ask one of the questions that I might ask would actually I I would say it's something like would you do you feel comfortable uh spending nearly $210 per well per thousand of an increase to maintain the buildings with access capacity of blank and maintain and cover eminent maintenance repair costs of $31

136million um or would you like to see the school district consolidate at a lesser dollar amount of an expense to the taxpayer? I think the question that you would ask is listed below are three options. Option A has this. You just you just said that one, right? Which is uh a $6 million operating cost >> with uh $30 million worth of fixes and a consolidation plan that is $18 or $20 million, right? Whatever whatever that final number is, right? that comes at a cost of this mill rate. Option two, right, is uh less of an operating referendum, right? Uh maybe not as many um fixes dollars for the elementaryaries, but we still do uh the middle school. Option three is we don't do anything capital. We just do an operational and it's this. I mean

137there there that's what I'm asking you to do. I'm asking you to come up with three scenarios and we say which of these do you support most? We give them all the documentation about what the mill rate is, what changes are going to happen, what the possible savings to the district are over the long run, right? And so on. But if we go so the one one suggestion um if we go operational then that's still like then that that puts us in a very precarious situation of being extremely reactionary to any any of the um the maintenance needs of a district. >> I I I'm not saying I picked one or the other. I do know that >> operationally we need those dollars like that is first priority. You guys all set it. Right. >>

138Right. Um, but you guys will have to tell us what the three are, >> right? >> I just gave examples, >> right? Don't don't think that those are my examples, right? But I think Sam, >> so I think the advantage of looking just at operations is you can ask a capital question a little bit later. You can do that. >> If you're starting to lump that in, people are going, "Okay, you're asking me for all this money. You're starting to make it." No one likes it when uh the Senate or the House puts together a giant omnivous omnibus bill that has a billion things in it and people are like, "Oh, you're just going to vote on everything at once." People generally don't like that. The simpler the ask is, the better. So, I I

139hear what you're saying, though. I'm not >> You're saying an option that you would think maybe to put on the table if if I'm putting words in your mouth is an option that says an operational referendum of XYZ. >> It comes at a mill rate of this But a commitment to ask a capital question later. >> Yes. >> Capital question. >> So that so that people don't think you never have to ask that. Right. >> Right. >> I don't know. >> Okay. I like to write. So I just I think introducing it on the refere on the or on the uh survey what what are we calling it? The reality for Watertown Schools shows there is an imminent need for a combination of consolidation and renovation of our schools and your choice matters. So you're

140appealing to the intelligence of that person. You're showing them that there is this imminent need. You've already put the thought of the combination of the consolidation and renovation. You're telling them that their choice matters. And then you give them the three scenarios so that because you're inviting them then into this. So I think that introduction is is vital when you are presenting before. >> I appreciate I appreciate >> very good. >> Absolutely. I would I would recommend that we I know everybody talks in mill rates, but the average homeowner doesn't compute what the mill rate actually means to their property taxes. So, by the way, the according to the housing market, the average price of the average house right now in Watertown is selling somewhere between 315 and $355,000. So it it's going to have

141a significant if we went to two it's significant. >> I had someone tell me less than >> Yeah. So >> always trying to make a buck. >> I'm not buying it be about 50 bucks a month for for the average. Yeah. If if we were doing the 600. >> Yeah. If if we were doing the the big ask like that Craig was sharing that you're right. We would be >> very good. >> It would be uh you know quite a bit. it' be $600 $700,000 for the middle. >> I think that we have to ask a question that has the operational standalone to be honest about this. Um I think they need to understand what that means if we do just an operational cost. >> And if we do just an operational cost, what level

142of operation are you looking at into the future? Operating how we operate now? operating by making some choices that may end up consolidating uh and or uh changing program programming, you know, like what what do you what do you suggest? Well, if you look at the data that Sarah gave us in the finance committee, okay, um at some within the five years scope, even at $6 million, >> we've come out >> by year four, we're already having to make adjustments to make ends meet. Okay. So, I personally think based on the numbers you all have supplied us that $6 million is a reasonable amount of money to get us going. We'll have to make adjustments in years four and five unless something changes with student population or >> state budget or >> or state budget.

143Um so so 6 million on a fiveyear non-recurring seems reasonable to me. And the impact on that was $127 I think or something like$147. >> So um and we're at 5.90 I think right now on the mill rate. So, we're jacking it up to um close to eight. >> Okay, that would that would be something that we could stay in current buildings, right? Well, >> the the year four and five might be a the consolidation question, right? Where where we start having to >> get into a different spot. >> Well, I do think, you know, okay, so so how do you build a survey that people actually want to do? The more words you put in it, the by the way, the more words you put in it, the more likely they're going to say

144no. Okay. The longer the longer something is, the more complex it is, harder it is to understand. We we build our own problem. But I think at some point you have to say um these are things to bear in mind. We have a declining enrollment. We have empty spaces in our school district in our school buildings, you know, and and by years four and five, even with this, we're going to have to do additional cuts, additional um belt tightening, whatever you want to call it. But does that make sense to you that >> we call it expenditure restraints. >> Okay, I can buy that to it. Um, expenditure restraints. Okay, >> go ahead. S. >> So my response as like a person on the street uh in the hypothetical scenario like let's say you're just

145talking to me about this would be why don't we start making those cuts now since we're going to have to do it anyways and save people money and >> we already have and we can prove it. Oh, no. I understand that we're making I understand that again as the hypothetical. >> No, and I'm giving you the answer. So, we include that answer. >> Yeah, I understand that you guys have made cuts, but since you're going to have to make more cuts on top of the cuts you've made, why don't we just continue doing that now? Like, why why are we delaying the inevitable? Right? That's kind of I think that's the answer to that, Sam, is well, right now we serve a certain population. Within four or five years, we'll have 100 to 150 fewer

146students. That's where we start thinking about how do we make the expenditure restraints we need to because we'll be serving fewer. >> Right? >> So in other words, why do we why does the current population have to make those adjustments prematurely if they don't need to be made till after they're out of the schools in three to five years they'll be out. Some of them will be. >> Okay. >> We're nearing 9:00. >> I know. So you want three questions to take the community. That's the goal of this is that I >> I just want to understand what it is we need to leave here. >> I think the best thing for us to do is to have three scenarios that we could survey out. >> That's the best >> uh leadership I can share

147with you. You guys can do whatever you want. >> Yeah. >> Do are people on board with that one? Is that a good idea for a scenario? >> Yeah. Yeah, I'm good with it as long as it's worded well. >> And you can help us with the wording. It'll be great. You Yes. You and Linda. Linda sounds like she's got good wording abilities, right? And we most likely will think about hiring somebody like School of Perceptions who are professionals at that. >> I hope so. Yes. >> To do it for us, right? Like I think that's a good idea. >> All right. >> I think that we should also have an option that is like I asked last time we were talking about the 45cent mill rate option. I think that having a brace for

148impact minimize the uh minimize the hardship while recognizing the imminence of the necessary cuts. I think something like that would be suitable to put forward to people because I think that there is a reality that people might be like okay well that's you know that's that's the most that I'm going to go for. I think that was what uh 2.5 million was what you said 2.5 million for three years. >> Sure. >> That's a lot. Okay. Are we all comfortable with that? >> Are you guys comfortable with it? >> 2.5 million for three years. No, I think that's kind of it. It's low boiling to the point where it doesn't have meaning. >> Uh I think to a lot of people it would still have meaning, >> but but it's do practically for the district.

149So granted, we reflect our our constituency. I completely get that. But we also have a legal responsibility as officials to um make sure that fiscally the school district has what it needs to operate. >> Well, and again, this is kind of what I've talked about in the past and while I understand that and I am very sympathetic to it, I think a lot of people look at, you know, you look at median income of Watertown, you look at the least paid person in the district makes like 15 grand more than the median income of Watertown. And I think a lot of people are like, "Oh man, like there there's so much going on there. That's just that's just tough." So I mean, maybe not 2.5, maybe three million, maybe half of what the regular operational

150ask would be at that point. You're still making cuts, but you're saving a little bit. You're slowing down that rate at which classroom sizes increase. And you know, maybe over time that makes the transition a little bit smoother. >> Okay, I can understand that. But in in the questions then, Sam, it would say that if the community is only willing to approve a referendum for $3 million, this is what we're losing. >> Yeah. And I think you would have to lead with what you're you would have to lead with where things are going naturally, right? Without any outside input or change from the community. Here's where things are going to go naturally. Here's um $6 million operational referendum and what it saves. Here's the $3 million operational referendum and what it saves. That would be

151with the two existing questions. That would be my thought on that. >> Okay. Okay. >> I I think I think coming up with the different configurations of questions is going to take more thought if we're going to get a quality product. And I think we're going to have to I think it's it's better to go back, you know, go away, sit down and really think about what what we're what we're asking them in the question and then coming back at the Monday meeting with with with a a finished product for each person to discuss intelligently because right now I think we're >> we don't have we have all this data and and we haven't had time to digest it. >> Yeah. And I I agree with that. But I I I also want to ask

152this question. >> You guys said you wanted to support a $6 million operational question, but you also said we think consolidation is eminent. >> Has to be part of you. >> I was just going to say that the third question should have >> No, I didn't say that. Actually, Carl said just to get the temperature of how the community feels about consolidation. >> Absolutely. Yeah, >> I think that's the third one. >> That's the third one. I agree. Agreed. >> That's the third one. >> So, third one would be >> operational and capital with consolidation that the board's comfortable with. Does that come also with maintenance to the other buildings or do we do those maintenant things in the future? What I mean is those elementary schools that uh Douglas Webster and um RMS basically

153which is going to turn into an elementary the consolidation piece. Do you also want money in there for u fixes for the other buildings or not? >> Yes. Definitely. >> We have to do that. >> Definitely. >> I think I think we have to be fair to the public. >> I mean, we have to say this is what it would take to to get get us into a good um maintenance position district-wise. Okay. So, uh I think we have three good ones to start with. Again, uh what's going to happen between uh then and now? Uh, and we're going to talk a little bit about timeline, but I would say within two or three weeks time, we can reconvene. We can say, "Here's the three options you picked three weeks ago. Here's what they work

154out. Here's what we'll have to do to fit into any one of these three options, right? Um, we'll give you as much information as we can on those. And if you want to refine or change or you've had some other thoughts like you said, this is a lot of data to take in right now. Um or you've each asked 10 different people at the cafe or at the grocery store or in your house, whatever. Um that will give you some feedback too, right? Uh people will will see this. People will react. People, you know, they're going to see um the the video of this, right? But then that gives us about two to three weeks down the road we can pick a date uh you know before we leave tonight. Um but we we will

155then uh administratively and and and with the team work out those options and say here's what it is and here's the mill rate it'll come to um here's the possible savings if we can we'll get as much data as we can on the amount of time you give us before we hit another date. So, can we recap that so I remember what we got going on for >> I believe we had a $6 million operational only question. >> Okay. >> We discussed a is it $3 million? >> $3 million. Yeah. >> Can I can I put a nuance on that? Uh, I think something that may bridge the gap between you're here and they're there >> is to stage something in that's like maybe a 3 million, a 4 million, you know, four and a

156half, like let it grow a little bit as the tax base grows, but it won't really continue to affect the mill rate because as the tax base grows, right, um, that that will keep the mill rate down because more property property values will come. >> Sure. >> Okay. So, we'll start at like three, but we'll we'll we'll let Sarah work with Beard to step it up. >> If you if you can if you can write that in a way that doesn't make you fall asleep when I read it. Yeah. Stop. No offense. I'm not saying that you're >> We would have to explain it in the question. Yeah. >> Right. But I think we uh Barrett has been very very good at being able to really explain it well because a lot of school districts

157do that step up. >> But he had asked for three years. >> Are you holding to the three years or three years or five years? >> Five years. You originally said three. >> I think that a short-term ask is helpful because people would rather not have to. They want to commit as few years as possible with something like this just because of how turnovers happen and how districts can change direction. People have different ideas over time. >> People care about that. So, I mean, I still think three years is the way to go. I think that shorter is better. I understand what you're saying about the five-year projection rate, but I think that three years has the benefit of people going, "Okay, now we're going to look at >> We were just talking for five

158years because that's the last thing that passed, right?" Like I I just want to know what you guys's thoughts are. But if it's a three-year, we'll step it up over three years. >> I prefer You guys have to tell us. >> I I prefer not to spend um this level of scrutiny every three years if I can't afford, you know. >> Well, I don't know. It's It's not about what I want. It's about what the people want, I suppose. I mean, that's how I feel about it. I I get what you're saying. It's like all the >> Well, let's let's remember why the last one failed. The two reasons were it had very little information and the people wanted to know what the money was spent on it and the words in perpetuity. That's what

159you know caused it to fail. Even even before people really zeroed in on it's going to go on indefinitely, I still heard a lot of discomfort about a fiveyear period though, even back then. And you know, I mean, and that was back when people were like, "Okay, it's going to cap out at a total of 30 million across that five years." >> What what what's your measure? >> Last April or the April when it failed, um the economy was in a totally different spot than it will be next April. What's What's your pleasure? >> What's your pleasure? That's a nice way for me to call the question on how many years. How many years? >> I like five. I like five. >> I like five, too. >> Sorry. >> I I can't. You want to

160take? >> Sure. Let's take a take a poll on that. Um >> just a poll, not a not a formal vote. By a show of hands, um, uh, who would support a fiveyear length of time on the three $3 million referendum as it was mentioned as a question. Two, three, four, one, two, three, four, five. The eyes have it. Fiveyear. Okay. Make sure you >> as split as that was. Do you want to do a fourear and split in between you two? >> I think fine with >> I don't really care. I don't really care at that point. >> Dan wants a sevenyear. >> So you wanted more. >> Let's go back to perpetuity. >> Well, no. I I'd be fine with a fouryear. >> So historically doesn't matter one way or another. Three years

161because three years is the >> Okay. I think that won't happen. We're at five years. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Very good. >> But on the bigger picture, historically, >> when was outside of this past April, when was the last time a referendum failed in Watertown? >> I don't remember one. >> Well, again, that >> we've had several. >> 2009, >> which is the one we're just finishing. >> Okay. Interesting. >> Interesting. >> Do you have your table? space >> is doing that. I just wanted to share that I I was able to >> capture the information that was requested a little bit earlier in the meeting. So again, the existing building is a half a section, right? So so two classrooms basically they share they share um so the cost to maintain that building would

162just be maintenance, right? So I had it's been identified um to expand it to a one section school. So that would be maintaining the existing library. We'd maintain the existing gym and cafeteria, but we would have um a classroom addition. We'd have a shared um addition for art and music. Um we could have a discovery lab, so something that would support this the A program of it. Um, this would include special ed unless we wanted to say that that wasn't a service offered at that building. Um, the addition for that would be $6.5 million. So again, that's just to go from a half section to a full section. So $6.5 million and this is in 2027. And if we went to a two section, again, because of um the need to preserve the land, um

163I'm recommending that that the existing building um be taken down and then a new twostory building be put up. And again, so this is for two sections. So that's a $21.5 million building. So to put the people in the school, we would be busing them from Watertown to Lebanon because Lebanon doesn't have enough people. >> Yeah. >> To fill that building. >> You would you would have to bus out. >> So we would have to assign students that want to go. >> We currently almost bus out as much as we bus in. >> Okay. >> Like I I don't know exactly how what the configuration is, but we did we did do you know where you can plot addresses through Google. >> Right. So, I I want you to know that that that there I

164don't know the exact number, but we could get that for you. Um, go ahead. >> Sorry. >> I was just going to say uh use those numbers in comparison to um you know, putting the addition on at the at the high school, right? Uh, and option three, um, if I did I understand it, we're we're looking at, um, we're looking at an operational referendum. >> Operational referendum. >> I don't know if that's a a because again, you don't necessarily have to go to the six million if we consolidate, right? So I want I want to know what that portion of that number three looks like. But you did say also the consolidation at the high school. It comes with some alle cart items. One of them I shared with you is probably more of a

165must. Would be some kind of a gym or multi-purpose center. That wasn't in the dollars. We would have to add one of those two options in either the multi-purpose room which is smaller or the um full gymnasium which is bigger. And then the maintenance uh that you're going to do in the elementaryaries. Um you would have to think about and pick a number of what that looks like. If you're going to do all phase one items or if you're going to do some of the major phase one items, what would that what would that number that you would want to put uh towards maintenance? So let's help develop that last one a little bit more. >> Yeah. Um if I were to throw throw out a suggestion >> just for easy >> I'm going to

166catch it. easy uh math. Um so we have um option C here. Um, and it's a uh the twotory that's the 19.5 million with the uh alle cart of a gym of 5 million and an alle cart of the orchestra edition of 1.5 million and the uh the level one maintenance of 24.22 million which that comes out to be around $50 million. Okay, which is coincidentally the scenario number five in um the Barrett uh projection as presented to the U fiscal committee which involves a consolidation to $4.5 million operational referendum and a hypothetical uh uh facilities uh referendum of 50 million. >> Okay. So that that and that was one of your seven picks that you asked us to uh cost out. Okay. So that would be uh 4.5 million. That would stagger a little

167bit, right? So you would get the stagger in there of increasing um that operation a little bit and uh it would do some maintenance and an addition to consolidate. Is that everybody okay with that as the option? >> Yes. >> As Craig noted, >> I just want to make sure you did the you said 4.5. >> Yeah, it's a $4.5 million operational referendum. >> Then would you be would you be friendly to allowing that to be stepped up over that fiveyear period? >> Yeah. >> Or was that we were discussing that that would be stepping up. >> Okay. Sorry. I was thinking about >> I was thinking I was listening but I was obviously thinking about something else. >> Just a short question. >> Sure. >> Yeah. >> Does the Y have a gym? The

168new Y. >> they will have a gym. >> Yeah, it's right now. >> The second gym in town, right? >> You know about >> Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Now we got the schools. That's right. Okay. >> And the pool is not going to be We couldn't do our swim team there. I don't know why >> because they're not >> because it's well it's only going to be a couple lanes and it'll be heated. Competition pools can't be heated. Uh does that work for folks to because then then then we kind of have the the gamut here of that it gives the administration direction to um run some mill rate scenarios with it looks like pretty much operational uh only you know three $3 million um graduated uh operational referendum Um, and for a

169few dollars more, we happen to have a uh a consolidation plan and um, you know, being able to tackle some of the uh, maintenance needs within our district. >> Okay. The uh, last couple Yeah, go ahead. Could we just run through what the options that we 24.22 for the maintenance on the remaining buildings? Right. Then we had the $5 million for the middle school gym, 1.5 for the orchestra edition that supports the middle schools moving into the existing space. And then which >> the twotory Thank you. Thank you. The 19.5 Okay. Our next steps timeline uh and community engagement discussion. Are you guys at a spot where you want to talk about that yet tonight >> or do we want to save that for our next meeting? >> But can we can we talk about

170this at our board meeting on Monday? Oh, we would have to think about um adding that to the agenda. I can talk to Lynn in the morning. We I mean, we're still >> that way. >> We could we could revise the agenda to do so. >> Uh >> it's up to Craig. I mean, he's the one who sets the agenda. >> Hold on a second. I'm trying to pull up my email. >> My guys at time let me know. That would be nice. >> We're all going to call >> I don't aim to >> we have a separate meeting tonight. Monday isn't the best. What do we got on Thursday? Tomorrow we got the board retreat. >> Tomorrow's board retreat. >> Yeah, you need 24. There's >> I got it right here. I was going

171to give it the after. >> Okay, perfect. >> There's a contemplated co close session at the end that may take about an hour potentially. Um, then we have uh we have a safety drill bullying update there. There is some room for strategic discussion, but from the looks of uh the meetings we've had so far around this topic, it's likely going to be about an hour. Unless you guys want to just hold it firm to an hour and then whatever we get done, we get done. If not, we don't. We >> just do the meeting like on Tuesday or Wednesday or something and start at like five. >> What's that? Uh >> oh. So you're suggesting another meeting next week, the the following >> Yes. >> following day. >> Uh 27th probably I think would be

172the best for me. >> Killing me. All right. >> It's a Wednesday or 28th. >> No, not the 28th. >> Not the 27th worked for you. Yeah. >> Word for everybody. The 27th. >> Guess I'll make it. >> Oh, let's have a special meeting. >> I just know by the time we're done with Monday's board meeting, we're all going to be happy that we're not having another discussion that goes until 11 p.m. >> Very good. >> Does that work for you guys? >> Oh, and come back next time. >> We We currently had Well, we we removed that. We currently had a um an evening uh focus group that was on Thursday from 6:00 to 8. I don't know if you guys took those out of your calendars because I thought I told you to

173take my calendar. >> We did take those. >> Yeah. >> If not, I can I can I can I can do it wi with or without you. I just want to make sure you have the opportunity. >> You guys can also zoom in. That might be a lot of >> Yeah, I can make it work. >> But you're saying Wednesday, not >> Wednesday at 7. Is that what he said? >> Or do you want to go earlier? >> Wednesday the 27th. We could do it at 5:30. Or I could do it at 5:30. I'm sorry. I'm not trying to speak for everyone. >> Wednesday the 27th at 5:30. >> 5:30. 5:30. 5:30. >> We're good. >> Okay. Those who can join will join. Um those who can't understand. We'll be we'll be talk their slide

174went. But we'll be talking about timeline process and community engagement. We've got the survey already done. We won't have any further information for you on the survey questions. I doubt at that time of next week, but uh um we'll at least be able to talk community engagement. If we do have something, we'll bring it to you. >> Okay. But with the start of the school year fast approaching and new and staff coming next week, I we're going to be there. >> It's okay. I'm a good jungler. No, but apparently >> Oh, sorry. >> If as you leave since since we're going to be back at this next Wednesday, if you would like to help yourself to any of these worksheets to take with you, if that would help you in any way, shape, or form,

175please by all means help yourself to them. They're for your use. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. >> Go through the steps. A motion to adjourn. >> Is there a motion to adjourn? >> So move. >> Moved by Carl. >> Seconded by Sam. >> All those in favor? >> I have it. We are clear where