001that this board is having heavy-handed and I'm like, have you gotten to know these people? Right. No, you So, um I I think that it helps um I I want to uh I've been talking to Craig about this and um I want to do a a stocks exchange style listening session when we come back. Yeah, you had said that. Yes. I I actually went and asked him if he would moderate it for me because I'm like I'm new at this, you know. Yeah. Well, so yeah, Craig and I actually talked about like how we 5:30 called this meeting, the special board meeting of the uh Unified School District School Board uh to order. It is June 24th. Um, please join me. To the flag of the United States of America. Thank you for joining the
002meeting and for all. You take the role. Carl Schwarzy here. Dan Bolner here. Greg Wharton here. Charity Chandler, she's online. Yep. Uh Tammy Corner here. Lorie Hoffman here. Diana Johnson, she's still trying. It's still trying. Okay. And then Sam, we knew here. Excellent. So we are hearing to revisit um our discussion regarding P. Um, I do believe that the uh intentions of the meeting would be to come to uh some sort of agreement with uh three potential uh proposals to present to the public um for for uh consideration so that we can start receiving some feedback from the public. Am I correct in that? That's yes, absolutely. that's going to be the the biggest and main thing. If we can get some direction to present out to the public and get feedback from the public
003on those, you know, if you can narrow it down to what that might look like, that'd be great. And hopefully this discussion uh stays kind of focused around that particular uh objection objective, right? So, uh without further ado, Where do we go from here? Well, we'll turn it over to our good friends from uh both Cullen and P. Uh and they're going to lead us through um a couple of different agenda items. You can see there that we're going to some do some uh review of the Q&A, the questions and answers to those questions that you had from our last meeting. You gave us a bunch of questions, but we went through and talked through them together, made some answers. We're going to re review re those with you. Uh and then we're going to
004revisit some feedback uh from that last uh May 27th special board meeting that was uh we had uh and then we're going to talk a little bit about um what direction uh should the board have for us uh and moving forward and um then talk lastly about what do community engagement sessions look like? We have some tenative dates put forth for you for some response to uh as well as what you might want to see them look like. Dr. Thompson, how are you? Well, hi everybody. Thanks for um presenting that, Lyn. Appreciate that. We're happy to be back with you this evening. Um I think you have met all of us and we have met you. Um our partner Nick Kent is unable to join us tonight. He's working in a different school district in
005a very similar meeting um elsewhere. And same with Doug um has a different commitment but uh Devon and I are very pleased to be back with you and I will volunte similar I believe we've met everyone but uh my name is Sean Colin Alex couldn't make it same old story and dance um song and dance that she's working at another district right now so evening over you well we are here tonight we kind have already hit upon our agenda, so I won't belabor it. I think you're spot on with kind of what we're looking for to help us guide our work um after we've talked through some things is really just to identify those top three options um that the board would like us to continue to vet further and then perhaps take out for
006some community engagement. So, that's where we're headed tonight. Um we are in the same phase. We always like to include this as a part of our slides just to kind of remind us or regground all of us. So we are still in that kind of overlaying mix where we're doing a little bit of shaping with concept development, but we're starting to work on what does community feedback look like. So that is where we were last time together and that is where we are again this evening together because those kind of go hand inand for for a part of this process. Um as Dr. B mentioned, everybody should have got a couple handouts. Um Hannah one is the the first one that we're going to look at. Um perhaps they're in a packet. They're they're in
007the board packet, but you do have um one uh piece in front of you here that's also the building capacity um discussions that uh we had a little bit of questions on last time. So we thought we'd bring that to you. But um if you go into uh the um uh information for tonight, uh Lyn, where where where were those three handouts listed uh for tonight's meeting? So handout A is um attached to agenda item um A. Yep. And then handout B, which is um under the B part of our agenda, and C is at the C part of our agenda. So that that's logical. There you go. It works well. So hopefully everybody was able to preview those a little bit. Um little little homework for all the board meetings that you have obviously.
008Um I'm curious if I can open it up for some any additional questions. Um otherwise I could do a very general overview of we talked about we talked about a little bit of that but not going into them uh specifically if we didn't necessarily need to. We answered many of the questions, but some of them we provided some additional followup um or provided an answer to the question specifically if we weren't able to at the last meeting. Why don't we give you about uh five or so minutes, maybe 10 to just read through those if you didn't have time to. I know we've all been like really busy, lots of meetings, so if you have some time to just take five minutes maybe or so, uh read through those really quickly, skim through them. um
009go to go to maybe the question side, look for the questions that you brought forward that were burning for you. Uh and then um we can have some overall discussion if you would like. I don't I don't Count. [Music] I'm sorry. It's all right. Okay. I appreciate it. just at five minutes. Does anybody need more time? No. Are there any elements in there that um anybody would like to ask a question about or discuss the answer or Yeah. Um uh thank you. This is very thorough. I really appreciate the work that you guys do here. I really I really do because sometimes it's hard to zero in when people ask questions. Um I just want a little bit of clarification on question number 13, which I believe is the one I asked last time. Uh
010so when we're looking at those maintenance costs, it says on the left hand in the lefth hand column box, um it says that the low end for how much maintenance is involved in options A through E totals at about 61 million. That's what you're saying, correct? Yeah, guys. Which one of answered that one? 13. Uh Shannon, you got to look at the other other information. Brian's looking at the right sheet. Why don't you continue? Why don't you um continue on, Sam, with your question? Sure. Um and that was I that is kind of in its entirety. I just want to make sure I'm reading things right. you know, I I I like to double check to the best of my ability. And so it kind of it looks like all of them turn out to
011be betweenund and I think 160 is the lowest if you take into account that 61 million for maintenance. I I could be wrong though. I'm just It's really about the the phrasing on uh question 13, which is page four. Yeah. Yeah. What do the bottom line numbers show? Maintenance timeline same as 20 year 106 million. Option A and E A through E, excuse me. Uh low end total 61 million improvements um very what is it variety of dollars um still more to do in A3. So maybe some more context on that when we were discussing this as an option and looking at right just right what's the lowest dollar amount and maybe that's something we do or maybe we look at it differently right these are all hypotheticals but um all of the options that
012were presented again I said that I did the cost estimating on that because that was before our partners here at Cullen were a part of the team so these are truly rough order of magnitude dollars just for comparison purposes yeah and also reiterated just we also we need to understand what that that maintenance overlap is. And really that's that's the direction that we're we're hoping to receive today to find what are the what are the top three um that you would like to see taken to the next level because then oh hey we're improving um these spaces within this elementary school. Well, if you're doing something different there, then you don't need to do the maintenance dollars because you're already improving it. And maybe it's because we need a a space um for a special
013ed that doesn't exist in the building or maybe it's another uh administrator office because right now like they're just in a closet. Yeah, it can be just as as simple as that. So I think I think the one thing that um we all really do need to be um super cognizant of is that those cost estimates also are in today's dollars. So that's if you do a 100% of that work of that whole option today, right? If you say we're going to do uh you know part of option A, we're going to do uh phase one, right? And you wait another 10 years to do phase two or phase three. Now that interest is going to compound over time. So that's not the cost. the cost over time may actually be more expensive if we
014wait on other phasing. And just be cognizant of that because you might look at these and go, "Oh, that's the cheaper option." And it might not be if like 70% of the load is actually in years 10 or 15 or whatever because the bigger part of that is going to be done at a much later time where more interest is going to be on top of that. Yeah, I suppose. So, just some just something to think about and that is that is great information. I agree. I think that's really important. And the the bottom line reason I ask it is because if we're just looking at a snapshot of the numbers as a rough estimate and I really do understand what you're talking about, it's hard to it's hard to set that stuff up. Set
015that stuff up when you give a mouse a cookie or it's probably not really, but you know what? Well, there's there's so many variables and you're even picking up on that, too. I can I can see it. We've even had the same conversation because everyone's asked asked me to even in the community conversation, well well how long does this plan get implemented that no one has the answer to that. It's dependent on so many different things. Yeah. And I suppose at the end of the day what I'm looking at is every single one of the options. Not that there's no benefits to them, but options A through E are all at least twice as costly as the maintenance option is what is is how it appears to me. And so that's that's where it gets
016difficult. And that's why I was like, well, when you take out some of that maintenance that would be done, you know, maybe that would be a different deal. It gets complicated though. So that's that's just why I was asking. I really appreciate what you guys gave us here as far as the numbers go. Um it's just it's it's hard to say even when Yeah. Go ahead. And and and something to consider also is right, we wouldn't we wouldn't even we're sharing with you what that total dollar amount for maintenance is. We would not recommend that you would do your 20 years of maintenance in like, you know, one potential question to your community. That would be very silly because you'd be throwing away 10 years of at a minimum of useful life on those level
017three items. That would not be a wise move. Um so there's even could be conversations uh at at later dates. Um is it level one only, right? Because that's out five years. um let's see what potential um development is um or isn't in the community. How is enrollment at that period of time, right? We're we're projecting out that long range plan. And again, it's something that you would you would strive toward, but something isn't just right, you guys said it and it's it's etched in stone. It's something that has to be revisited over time. Yeah. Other other questions? That was great. Thanks for um asking it. And I'm glad we put we we actually didn't have numbers on the left side originally. No, thanks for the details. Um, anybody else on on handout? And again,
018we just want to bring everybody um kind of back to that conversation. Um, I know there's a board member um that's that's joining us tonight that wasn't able to be at that meeting. So hopefully bringing them along in that conversation. Okay. hearing nothing else then um perhaps we'll we'll provide just a little bit more time again to bring everyone back up to the conversation in handout B. So also in in section B um of your your board docs there um there's a we basically we summarized um we summarized the discussion that we had around the different options and again just a general summation not try not to go into too much detail on stuff but uh um largely this is what we're going to be talking about um in a few minutes. So it's kind
019of just bring us all back to where we were. What the hell? any thoughts on on that document if I paraphrased it right now. Right. The first bullet point is we talked about options one and two and maybe we didn't really heard a lot of support or a direct reason for you know why why go down to one or maybe even two but there was a little more concern and conversation around one campus right just with the amount of traffic that might um be in one spot even though we understand the geographic reach of what our our our two larger campuses are um high school and middle school. The second major bullet point, um, talking about refinement, right? We we were talking about, well, maybe we need to do something at the middle school first.
020That that's a little bit of what I what I heard. And does that need to be prioritized? Is there kind of a variation or an option um in in one of these needing to explore, you know, maybe more than the one or two campuses. And I think something that's enriched within these options is that t that timeline that arc of of completion honestly if there is is ever a a completion of that right as it's a it's a living document things should be rei revised and revisited um you can you can start down the path of say two campuses but you're going to have three or four campuses available for a duration of time and then it slowly will narrow down. So it still gives future boards flexibility. It's not that the decisions made or
021the suggestions the the options that you want us to explore further um set that so so narrow right there. This arc of time gives opportunities um to see how the community is is changing. Um then the last bullet point um you know funding what are the what are the funding possibilities? Um, everybody even got to, you know, make sure we got a unified message about funding a plan and making sure that local businesses in the city um were on board with that. Um, are there are there grants? What else is available to us? Is there there free money out there basically that if we apply for it, you know, could we could we be successful? Um, and then that first one, you know, which option will the community support? Um ultimately if something went to
022a ballot um the only way there is anything that gets implemented is if the community uh would support it right so that's what what's the need what's the maybe the benefit to me uh and then ultimately how also how much does it cost right because because that is an impact that is a factor and then also another factor here is right the district also every district in the state um we're a K12 so um there's there's a debt limit, right, that you can't exceed. Um, we're not even going to get close to that, I'm sure. Um, but just that's something that community has to be aware of, too. Like, well, just do all of it, you know. Well, that's might not even be in the realm of possibility, and it would be way out of
023the anybody's willingness to support as well. I can probably guarantee that. Um, so that's that's kind of the synopsis. Um, if I could hand out Yeah, I I also think that was great. Again, this is a really good condensation of the feedback that you guys have gotten and that I think what I what I'm seeing here is what I've heard as well. Um, and I mean this is definitely a question that kind of goes to everyone on the board, but I have not personally heard from anyone in the community that there's an interest in even starting down the path of that large scale change. And I think that people in the community understand what the benefits would be of a new facility. I think we all like having something that's new and fresh, but I
024think that with where we stand now, it seems like people are more interested in keeping, you know, as it says, the uh neighborhood schools uh running as they are to the best of our abilities. And I think that that's something people value. M one of the one of the questions that I I'm going to have in in that discussion point um and and again I'm totally okay with the answer either way, right? Is if we stay set up with the same number of schools we have uh and you look at the seat availability that are in those schools because of declining enrollments, right? We have a total of uh 747 seats to the maximum delta versus the enrollment we have. Uh my question is is are we going to continue to put money into spaces
025knowing that we have way more space than we need to do the job that we need to do? And and if the answer is yes, I'm okay with that. As long as you can convince the community that we need to keep putting money into these buildings that are way more space than we need. And if they're okay with that, then we have no problem. We will have the money to operate and we will have a lot of space to spread out uh and we can continue to run the way we're running. I'm I'm happy to do that as long as that's what the community wants. I think up until now we have guessed what we think is good for the community and what the community might want but we haven't asked them and option A
026through E doesn't have any any support that I can see. Um and rather than guessing what they want or telling them what's good for them, I think we need to lay out what do we have? what do we need and let them tell us how to get there and I think that's what we're missing here. I I would push back on that a little bit because that's what we're trying to do that this is that process. This is the process A through E. Well, and and that goes back to handle a question number two, right? That is um does the uh Is the one campus model goal was I mean is that the goal? Um it was it then and is it now? Um are we if we're moving away from a one or two
027campus model that's where we have the discussion we should have that discussion here. The the other part of this that I see is um my my hope would be that we move forward and as a board our job is to start to initiate that discussion with the community. In order for us to initiate that discussion, we should have a few options as a proposal for the community to understand what might this look like and then receive feedback from the community on on that. So, if one of the options is maintenance only, this is what those costs are going to look like to the community moving forward. Um, this option would be more of a hybrid model where we we maybe consolidate a few buildings and add on to another building to try to to keep
028uh expenses uh within range. We we we know that maintenance only is 106 million. Is it um I shouldn't say only. We know that it's 106 million. Um, is there an option that allows us to to uh be more efficient as a district, provide some of the resources to the community that they're looking for in programming and the space utilization at less, you know, a lesser cost or what does that look like? And then what does maybe a consolidation into uh a couple of different sites look like? Because if we're not actually engaging the community on that discussion, how do we even know it? Um we we have to come to the community with a starting point, right? I I just think your starting point uh aside from the maintenance only, your starting point assumes
029a lot about what people want. And I think you you you're going to end up with a a failed referendum if you don't really dig down and find out what those options look like and how much they cost and and you know, give the community a shopping list. they can choose what they want and then we know what to send to the I think you're you're stating exactly what we're trying to do tonight, right? Which is we brought out uh to the best of the board's ability at that time, right? Who gave direction and said here's what we think um maybe the future should look like, right? We got some feedback from the community, right? Um, and you you are also now as new members to the board bringing even more feedback. And we're saying,
030let's shape those options tonight. We'd like to walk away with three, right? We're not saying necessarily that they even have to be any of those. They may be something else that this board thinks is important to bring back out, but then we will bring those out to the community and say, "We heard your feedback from the first round. Uh, and we have changed direction to this round, right? We need your feedback on this round. Okay. Right. And that and that's that's kind of what we're talking about here, right? And saying, give us that feedback. Help us shape what the the three options that we should be bringing out, right? We don't want we don't need to bring out six or eight options anymore. We've heard from, you know, a number of those options already that
031were focused around a one or two campus solution. And there was actually one that had a three campus solution that was like buy some land for future use, right? But what I'd like to know is your feedback on those options that you've heard as well as what other options are you thinking about and or hearing that we should have as one of those top three. I I'm just thinking that choosing some options and solidifying them too fast is going to backfire because we don't we know what what the community wants details wise. We we know what they don't want but we don't know what they want. Yeah. And that's I think what what Craig was trying we got then then it's incumbent upon us to give them a starting point and have some more reactions.
032We learn more, they learn more, right? And then we keep going with that back and forth until we really know what people want. That sounds good. Um, yeah. So, I agree with what you're saying, Lori. And also, I totally understand what you what you guys are saying as well. And I agree. You need to have something to communicate to people if you're going to talk to them. And I think a lot of it comes back to I still have this. This is from June 2024. This is from a year ago. This was way back when the board at that time was making decisions about uh what kind of long range planning process they wanted to go through and there was a strong desire to see maintenance and improvements because of the discussion at the time
033being that maintenance ultimately is not necessarily going to be sufficient. That was the the feeling of the board. And we also talked about having a district-led, community-led or hybrid option. And so what I'm hearing from you, Lori, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that you think that perhaps we should shift our focus on the process to being more community-led, even though that's taken a little bit of a step back and changing the way that we approach the situation and having maybe a higher continuous form of community engagement. Would that be correct? Yeah. So, and I I hear where you're coming from, and I do think that would help out. So if we're going to shift if we were going to shift to that model as Lori is suggesting what would be the best
034way to start shifting to that model and bringing that information. So itemizing and showing bringing to a bringing to the public these are all the individual planning projects for just maintenance and this is how much they would cost. Uh here are the five years here are the 10 years here are the 15s here are the 20s. Yeah, that's that's a good question for those were asking to help lead us through that process. So, I I I think it's a great question and it's good that you identified maybe there's a there's not just a shift in options, there may be a shift in approach. Yeah. And if there is a shift in approach, how do we retool this really quickly so that we can continue to move down that path? Yeah, sure. That's so wonderful. Thank
035you. Who would like to field that question to your I just got voted in. Nice. Yes. So there can be there can be a range and so maybe um taking again a continuum of sorts if you will uh from what's a hybrid which is in the middle of that sheet I'm sorry I don't have mine here to hold up right now but uh appreciate you bringing that out to you know a very community-ledd process. So I do think that's something that the board would want to give some consideration to. So, I'm going to give you some examples if I can of maybe bookends on the continuum from where we are like midline with kind of a hybrid approach out to what a a a most community-led process could look like. So, on the most community-led
036side, excuse me, what is often done is that the school board creates what's called a facilities advisory committee. Some of them have different names, some are FAC, some are community, you know, facilities committee. They can have some different acronym, but basically it's a community committee of sorts and they create a charter which outlines exactly what it is that the charge of that group looks like because this is per um case law and um some some relevant statutes. It is a subcommittee of the school board and so it is chartered and so it is often at that time uh co a co-chair selection process is then done right you take like applicants of people who want to be on this and it doesn't necessarily mean that it's super selective in that way but you are oftentimes
037in that circumstance looking to have different representation from across your community right so you probably want to have a certain number of slots like if you want a 25 person committee because we know once we get beyond 25. Sometimes things don't work great in committee format. So if you want about 25 people, you might be thinking, okay, right now we have five elementary schools, we have a middle school, we have a high school, right? So maybe there's seven seats right there, you know? And then you might be thinking, okay, at the community level, we have these different leadership groups or we have these different entities we want to have represented, right? So you as a schoolboard group are kind of putting together a charter that has seats, if you will, right? because you are trying
038to truly have a diverse group of people who participate in this. And so then you put the all call out and usually we see districts put an all call out announcing what this is with the board approved charter so people are clear on what the expectations and time frame and all of those pieces are. Then what you do is um you announce how you would like to pick co-chairs. Now some school districts choose to have a schoolboard person and a community representative as a co-chair. Um, others like to have two community- based people as the co-chairs because again, this typically is a group if it's truly community-ledd, which is the purpose of this, that are making a recommendation at the end of that process to the school board. doesn't mean the schoolboard has to accept
039it, but typically they're making a recommendation often as a part of this community groups timeline includes kind of I'll call it a timeout where whatever their um top options almost like we're talking about here. Those often then get put on a survey and tested so that by the time this FAC or community group is making a recommendation to the board, there is truly communitywide data beyond just those able to participate in this committee. So there are variations on what I just described you know kind of of how community led like I said co-chairs can make a difference in that membership makes a difference in that some have you know school administrators as a part there's you do need district administrators often hold a lot of information right think about heaven's role and others who have
040vital information about the process to succeed uh so that would be community-led those often need 8 to 10 months to run their course. Um, so you know, something to consider. So then with that in mind, and I I would even offer a little ramp up as well, right? If you guys are developing a charter and charge for this committee, that's probably a two to three month ramp up. So think 12 months to have a recommendation. Thank you, Donna. So then as we kind of go maybe back a little more to where the pendulum's resting place in the middle might look like that's where hybrid can look different ways you could do what you're doing here tonight to perhaps give us direction around three options and then as we're going to discuss maybe at the end
041depending upon where our conversation goes various ways that you can get community feedback right those can be in face-toface meetings those can be in other formats you can hold small focus groups more than three or four big sit and get kinds of meetings. There's a lot of ways you can do that. We've had districts who've done what we would call a community conversation series. So maybe um schoolboard reps. I know there was a conversation earlier about quorum. You have a non-corum of schoolboard people. Um you get people in different parts of the community, maybe 10 to 15 homes or businesses or places you can have a coffee chat. You can share out information and you can have people give you direct feedback, but you're going to their home turf more so than saying, "Hey, we're
042going to have these two or three. Come to us. This is the schedule." Right? You can you can make sure you have some of those in those 10 so that you have a guaranteed space, place, those kinds of things. You can also actively search out other places where people may feel more comfortable um you know going to their neighborhood or their friend's house or something like that and explain those things in depth and have you know again people there to to get good information. Um so I would say that's you know there's quite a range when you think about hybrid and and then there you're bringing that back and the board is using that to make decisions before you get to a point of a communitywide survey. And as a followup, sorry I'm asking a
043number of questions. I'm trying to kind of zero in on some of some of this. Um, and we've already done some of that over the last year. Correct. We've already done quite a number of those small groups, Jared. We've talked about that and go ahead. I'm sorry to interrupt you. We did. So, so for this process, we we joined So, we were with the board on January 17th, a year ago. Then three days later we in front of the strategic planning group um and got some feedback there. But then it was those three days in December when they saw the options. So in in in June we were getting broad feedback. Yeah. Responding to the options that we're talking about here A3 and the maintenance option that has happened uh three occasions. Well four if
044you count staff um and that was that first week of December. Mhm. So then, and again, please I apologize for the continued questions. Would it be reasonable in kind of that continuum of community involvement? Now that we've gotten some feedback, we've kind of zeroed in on those A through E and the maintenance and we've heard some more feedback on what those look like. Would it be feasible to open it up to more of a community-led process from this point forward and try to refine out of those and see what the community thinks about altering those aspects through more of a um like a community committee like you were talking about? What are some of the potential issues that come along with doing that? I would say anything is of course possible. I think um what
045I feel like I heard you mentioning Lori is more of a groundup process. And I think that's where in communities where they've done the more community-led process I was describing the the FAC or CIC or whatever you'd like to call it, they go back and and when we think about the schoolboard presentations and meetings and engaging with that comm that level of information, literally we spend a good couple meetings going through. So like the first meeting is going through the nuts and bolts. Sorry, it's this one. the facilities, the HVAC, the MEPs, like all the maintenance items. And then like a second meeting, we're talking about the teaching and learning side of it. So the educational adequacy, I'm holding this up actually in this volume. Um, and so we're looking at that and then we're
046looking at other data the district may have around student achievement or programmatic aspiration like right with maybe we can't offer the sections of some program we really want to because we don't have the space or right. So, we usually are building a considerable amount of background. It I'm not saying no to your question. I'm just saying it takes a lot to I think get to a place where you have non-staff members who can engage at the level that you need them to to refine some options if you don't bring them through the whole process, you know. But I do think, you know, kind of if you're asking if there's a hybrid way of doing it from this point forward that's that's leaning more towards the community side or community led than maybe where we had
047been in the last year. Absolutely. I think there is you know and I think that looks like the board refining some things and then you know deciding is there another round of staff input before you know things get worked through. Is there a cursory student feedback that's gleaned? You know, there's other ways to get some information to start honing in, I'd say. Yeah. Um, from the beginning, I've always kind of I was always concerned about like uh what the appetite for the community was going to be to move forward with any type of building whatsoever. Mhm. I I also understand that there are some parameters that we we know are non-negotiable and we should probably start with those. Some of those non-negotiables are we don't have a choice when it comes to maintenance and we
048know that we're going to be faced with a significant amount of maintenance in the near future that we need to plan out. Um, I also believe that if we come to the public without any type of additional plan, you're going to be scrutinized because you you're coming to the public and asking them for feedback without a plan. So, it's kind of a cyclical arc. Um, people want to have some visuals sometimes to understand, okay, well, what does this look like? you know, uh we've we've already started along that process a little bit. We've done some of the definition as far as uh what the maintenance is in our buildings. I'm hoping that we can maybe come together and say, uh what if let's just say it it, you know, we're looking at the the per
049cost per foot maintenance, right? Uh I think that's a question number six on the A handout. Okay. So we we take the bottom three of the highest expense schools offline and what does that look like as a district if we can absorb those within the district and does a modest remodeling project at one of the buildings uh how does that look in long-term savings to maintenance cost, you know, for the for a long-term outlook the community. Maybe that's the type of approach that we we throw out to as a starting point. You know, does that mean that we build another building to replace the three buildings that that we're taking offline? Does that mean we add on? Does that mean we just absorb them all within the district? But know knowing this, we can't absorb
050the bottom three without doing something different. We have to make some sort of an adjustment somewhere and that costs money. Um, so I I agree that we need to have more community input on this 100%. That's I've always felt that way. I just I just need I think that what we're seeking tonight uh what what P and Cullen and superintendent are seeking is a level of understanding from this board what what's next and and I don't know that not there I'm not there yet with the complete ground up starting join the meeting. Okay. So, I guess I have a couple questions for whoever can answer because I I'm new to the process. I wasn't here for any of this. So, I guess I would like to know why everybody thought that the like is the
051only option available in the long term to build a new facility because the only option available that does not build a brand new facility is the maintenance only option. So, I'm just wondering what did the board feel? Yeah, go ahead Jar. So, I can I can answer that. You're right in that um the only option to keep all of our buildings the way they are is maintenance only, right? But I will tell you that even in that option, you still have improvements. You still can make improvements to our existing buildings as they're structured. Um and it would still be a maintenance and improvement. You would just be looking at improvements that would get towards the programming that we have better. I I've said many many times putting our our our most technological type skills and
052programming into one of our oldest elementary schools with stairwells and other things that make it really difficult to do a lot of things was an interesting choice but Lincoln as a building may still fit that need if we did some improvements to get more towards the kind of programming we're doing there. Okay. So I would even say, you know, LEAP, LEAP has, you know, a great program, but there are still things that out there would enhance their programming the way that they're doing it, right? And it's not just maintenance, but it would be maintenance plus, right? What we're trying to get to in our questions is is it maintenance only or is it maintenance plus? And if it's maintenance plus, where does the plus happen? Craig's talking about a plus that would um essentially be
053maybe a reconfiguration of a standing building or an add-on to that standing building. So that way we could shift the number of seats available, right? Um to uh maybe take some other buildings offline that are older and would need some inputs on them, right? And that's what you're putting out there. That's what Yeah. So there's plenty of like plenty of options out there, okay, for us to think about. Does that answer your question? Yeah. So I'm feeling like if we're going to bring this to the community, I'm not opposed to that. I think that's a great idea. Whatever options, and I don't think we should willy-nilly put it out ground up, like no choices at all, right? Like that if you give nobody if you don't give any direction to somebody, they're just going to
054sit. Sure. But there needs to be an option where we renovate our current buildings only because when I've spoken to community members, I didn't live here eight years ago when there was a referendum where the community voted to uh pass a referendum to improve these facilities. And now it hasn't even been a decade and we I they're not very comfortable with us going back out to them saying, "Hey, can we have this large amount of funding to build a brand new building?" Now, maybe eight years ago, they attempted to get the community to buy into building a brand new building, and they didn't. I don't I wasn't here for that. But from what I hear, when I say, "Well, yeah, we're discussing long range facility plans," they're like, "Well, we just had a referendum less
055than 10 years ago where we gave millions of dollars to the district to improve our current structures." Yeah. No, you're right. I I agree with you. I think um I think the one thing that we don't always hear is if we go out to the public and say, "Oh, we need uh let's just say we need $40 million to improve the high school now. It's a 30-year-old building." And you're still going to get push back on that one thing alone because it's not been communicated yet the public that yeah, this this is a building that needs maintenance that's beyond what we can sustain in our regular budget. So um but you're you're right. Absolutely right. And and when you said seats, you were talking about increase increasing the class size. And when you increase the
056class size, that that impacts uh the quality of the education. And so that has to be an integral part of this conversation with the public. Are we looking at increasing the class size when we're doing this? Because that's what I'm hearing. I I I hear your your concern. And I think that u that's been a probably part of the entire discussion um regarding answer. So um really that that deals to two things right the amount of budget we have available for staffing right and secondly your threshold at which you want to put money into um any renovation for instance we don't have to necessarily um make any changes to class size if we have the total number of classrooms available to stay at the same class size but we still have to have those number
057of classrooms available in whatever we do. Right. Right. And we also have to continue to have the money to be able to afford the staffing to go into those. Right. If we don't have the money to go into the staffing, yes, class sizes will have to go up, right? And we have to make this part of the conversation with the cost. So, a a shift in in building usage doesn't necessarily mean that we have to have higher class sizes. It could mean it, but it doesn't have to mean it. I think we need to upfront communicate that with every option. What is the class size intended? What are the costs associated? Yeah. And again, part of that would depend on uh what our operating budgets are because I will tell you if we don't pass
058a referendum, you are not going to have a choice on that. Class sizes will go up. That there there's no choice because you can't run at a deficit. The state does they say that's illegal for a school to do that. uh and if we continue uh they'll come in just like they did to Milwaukee and Boy and they'll say no we're going to help you rectify this and if you don't we won't give you aid until you start turning the corner right uh and you can put it all on the local taxpayer that's what they're doing other places I'm not not using that as a threat I'm just telling you what the lines are right and so I if we do have money to operate right and we have the community pass a budget that
059allows us to continue to have our seat size the way we have That's that's great. Then we talk about the next step which is now do we want to reconfigure our buildings or do we want to stay in the same buildings? Right. Right. But we need to clearly communicate that because that has been a point of contention with people that we continuously talk about increasing the class size in this conversation and it frightens people and um I think we need to be very clear about what options come with what class sizes come with what cost. Um if I may kind of a thought here. So it doesn't directly answer the question you just raised. Um we did when we initially did the study a year ago, we did um take a bit of opportunity to
060speak with your staff. So at the very end, I mean it's not something that we would probably take the time to look through too much now, but if you haven't had a chance to look at the analysis of programming and learning spaces, it starts on page 436. um that does go through and does provide a snapshot of each different programmatic area and it doesn't directly answer some of the questions you're raising now because it's the nexus of what is needed to run a good art program which is not taking into account what the district's financial ability to run a good art program is from an operational standpoint. Right? There's the facility side which is what some of these options would address but there's I think what Dr. Burke is talking about which is you know
061there's also the operational side which is if we can't afford because of our budget due to you know revenue limits the all the constraints that come into school finance then you can have the best facilities in the world but you can't necessarily have the program you want to have if that makes sense. So that's where I think we want to definitely work with you to figure out what are a range of options. Three would be great. If there's plus or minus on that, we're we're here for it. Um but I think that's where trying to start getting at what are those different things that could look like the things that we're hearing you talk about right now with our department. Oh, and maybe one other thing since I know you might also be interested in
062just before those pages, we did a staff survey a year ago and um so that starts it's right before it. So it starts on page 427, well really 428 and so by school like for instance on page 428 is the Douglas Elementary School staff survey results. So um it gives you a little bit of information about who filled out the survey. Okay, I do apologize. It's a little bit small, but at the same point in time, you can see how did people rate the building that they work in every single day. Um, I will call your attention. I noticed this error today. I'm really sorry. I don't know how this happened or how it didn't get caught before. On page 432, it says it's shur. It is Webster. There are two shes, but I did
063go in the file today and double check. So, it truly is alphabetical and the one is mislabeled as sh. But it truly is Webster's date I did today. uh because it is a little small right the the we look at spaces um what are the acoustics what's the accessibility the appearance the power do we have enough power to do our core core job and support our students flexibility furniture uh lighting uh artificial right so above us right now versus natural daylight we had that conversation actually um about the middle school and then what's the size of your room also building indoor features just what are the things that are in the building how do you assess those as a staff member. Um, and then as well, right, we need to have outdoor facilities uh for
064our kiddos as well. Like right, we mentioned Lincoln before if there's an potential addition or there's improvements at Lincoln that takes away from what already is a small site or at at le perhaps if improvements at that building. Um, that that's the the A program. We would love to support that for more students, but every square foot of exterior the way some now that's a half section program. Um, hold it down maybe. So anyway, I just wanted to because it is hard to read or it's small just to make sure that we understood like what what's the depth at which um we looked at. Are we just looking at pretty colors on here? Does it actually mean something? It means something with the data that we put. She's trying to Sorry, it's switching. It's toggling
065between your two Zoom things. It's not on the slide. So, it keeps Sorry about that. So, if I'm unmuting or muting apologize. So, we don't want to we're not stifling any conversation. What we wanted to do is maybe just move ahead a couple slides and say like, okay, let's let's reframe the conversation again because we're starting to have some really good dialogue and if we if we need to review the options, we can. But I guess let's at least kind of progress through them and then and then let's let's have that rich conversation and then I know that we've got through all of our slides. Nothing was missed um to potentially share with you at all. So what is up here now? So the board direction piece I think what we're just and you saw
066this last time so we don't necessarily have to take your time at this moment to go through it. Um, what we did do is based on our conversation three weeks ago, we just took off the preamble of everything that had happened because last time we were together, it was just tracing that history for everybody as well as perspectively what we thought we heard you saying. And so now what we've done is we've just shortened that up. So it really does start at the top. Um, that's this handout C. Um, it just starts kind of where we all started together last month. Um, again, it does presume um something happening in April of next year. That is not a requirement by any stretch. It's just we also didn't want to have it stretched to some further
067date and then it takes us by surprise and we're maybe not moving as quickly to certain phases as we might need to depending upon what you would like. What we see as our job is giving you options. Right. Right. So whether it's the plan options or well if we were to go to the community well this this is like the earliest that you could whereas if we didn't bring this up tonight or at other moments then we might miss it by like a month and then you all honestly might be upset with us that we didn't make you aware. So this is just making you aware. We're not committed anything or anything like that. I guess what I'm just going to ask the most elephant room question. Is everybody comfortable with doing two referendums on
068the same ballot? Because we are most certainly going to be discussing the operational referendum going on in ballot for next spring. Correct. That is a good question. going to discuss an operational recommend I mean because I don't know that we've even really discussed that and I know you're not taking action on any items tonight but are we allowed to discuss with her or talk about the oper operational referendum that's not really on the agenda. I mean, no, we can't. But the the the idea of um a a discussion about when we might do this, you have to almost identify that a little bit because it may inform this. Yeah. Right. And and you're not setting out to discuss the operational referendum and whether or not we're going to have one, but you're you're you're trying
069to have some discussion around are we going to have a capital referendum? And that may lead you to questions about an operational referendum. Should we do one or not? Right? If it's the presumed we're doing one, then you have to answer the question, are we going to do two? I I really do think that it what it comes down to is I haven't heard from a single person in the community so far. And of course, I'm only one person. I only hear from I hear from haven't heard from a single person that there's an appetite for um building for add-ons, new buildings, anything like that. It seems to me that regardless of any other thing that's going to be on the ballot in the spring, it does not seem to me like people are interested
070currently in the community in having that sort of discussion. Now, should now a capital referendum could include maintenance only. Correct. And or maintenance and improvements to the existing structure for programming type purposes. And I don't know that at this point that's something that the community is interested in either. I I think they would be more interested in that than the consolidation options from what I've heard. But I think even then what people are looking for is different kinds of change in the district. Uh different directional changes and not necessarily changes in the buildings. Uh and I think that that contributes to both I can get about a capital referendum and about an operational referendum. And I have mentioned that a few times of course, but I think that until that really there's a strong effort
071there. Uh not that there hasn't been effort, don't get me wrong, but until there's a really strong clear effort there, I think it's going to be difficult to move forward with anything that we're talking about tonight. Yeah, I I do want you guys to know that um and I'm not suggesting this as an option. I just want to lay it on the table because like you guys said, you don't don't necessarily know. There are some school districts out there who talk about uh a capital referendum, right, to restructure to get to a lower operating referendum. And they sell the lower operating referendum by saying it comes with an accompanying capital referendum that will restructure us so that we can be more efficient with budget later on. So I if that's something you're thinking of, I
072just want you to understand some school districts do that as well. And there's plenty of other options that they could probably throw out there too that I've seen. I have a question about when when is the midterm elections that next not this next November from now. Yeah. So assuming that we were to put a referendum on in April, um we would have one other opportunity that year 2027 to put another referendum on ballot. I think guess that that gets a little tricky, you know. Um, I was just going to ask if you or Carl or Charity and Diana had any community feedback. Well, if you can go back to last April. Um, there were so many questions that people had in mind economywise and so forth. I think it's going to be a different April
073this year. And I think people would have more of an appetite to pass a referendum if if we frame it correctly. So there's a lot that's going to happen. Carl, are you seeing any indicators? Well, I've done business in Watertown for 40 years. At one time there was 60some licenses, liquor licenses in Watertown and I covered 26 of them that I took care of their books for. So I have a very good feeling about Watertown. A very good feeling. I don't live in Watertown anymore because it's a city that actually absolutely upset me when I had to get my dogs out of town. I like to hunt and I have dogs and they didn't appreciate my dogs. So I left the community, moved outside of the community, but this community to be honest with you
074is very very cheap and that's we got to work off of that basis and then we got to go from there. I don't think they're going to pass anything to be honest with you until we're forced to. Carl, have you heard any feedback from anybody? Oh yeah, they they definitely like schools. They definitely don't they want their neighborhood schools. I'll call it neighborhood. Okay. Yeah. Okay. They they want the schools we have now. Yes. Right. They they want they want the schools in a neighborhood. Can I ask follow question? Go ahead. Are they Is there an interest among those people to approve of a capital referendum to ensure that those schools stay there? Well, I that way that way they'd probably go along with it. Yeah. To maintain maintain the present schools. But I one
075campus. First of all, the the traffic problems. We we'd have to go to the city with one campus because the I lived on Hall Street right by the junior high for 20ome years and you couldn't believe what it looked like in the morning and in the evening to start out with. It was great because all the kids walk to school all the time and then all of a sudden the parents start picking them up and taking them right then. Yeah. And then it became a cluster. So, and that's that's the main thing is is is going to be the traffic problem which is going to have to be coordinated with the city. Yeah, we we like to explore a lot of options early on because it it costs like oh right still cost a couple
076bucks but it's it's really cheap versus just building something and all a sudden discovering you have an issue, right? Yeah. So, we want to explore it, understand, get that feedback and if we want to move on from that option, yeah, that's wonderful. And now we've just narrowed it down even further. Um I just want to follow up on the the referendums, right? So per 12 uh per calendar year, you're allowed two questions. It could be a capital and an operational on the same ballot or it could be two capital, two operational like, however you want to dice it, like only two um and and only during the the elections. Um, and uh, yeah, I I I think it's that's kind of a great segue, I guess, back to identifying kind of what our our top
077priorities are because we we from the people that we did hear, you know, and what we you guys shared last time, you know, you're going to have to engage the city. What are those neighbors going to be thinking about with all these cars at multiple times? Great. That's wonderful. You want to stagger the start time. Well, what if a parent's dropping off a high schooler and a middle schooler or now the middle schoolers are loitering around the middle school because the high schooler dropped them off, right? They're gonna they're going to carpool. People got to work. I I got to go to my job. Um, so that that gets us right back to the to the options and I don't Does anybody have a strong feeling for a one campus? Hold on before you answer
078that. Charity Chandler's uh wanted to share some thoughts. Thanks, Jared. And you know what I'm what I'm hearing is that people are feeling pretty passionately that are sharing my fellow peers at board members about the the maintenance and what they're hearing in the community. And Jared, you had mentioned the idea of a maintenance plus, you know, as we're trying to limit what those options are. You know, we're hear I'm hearing a lot of trepidation around the one campus model. And if we're looking to take multiple ones in front of the community, whether it's three, whether it's four, whatever that looks like, then then do we say a maintenance, a maintenance plus, and a two campus model just to get a vibe for what people are thinking because we're hearing anecdotal evidence, but if we're looking
079to ask more folks in the community where they stand, we we know that our community will be very strong in their opinion and share with us if it's something that they they feel a sense of pride about or that they feel really strongly about from a potential tax implication perspective. So, I guess I'll just throw that out there for conversation to say if you if you had to pick gut reaction right now, recognizing it's not binding, what are you all leaning toward from a board perspective? Can I chime in before we do that? Please, friend. Of course. Oh, I just to just give my input. Um, the conversations that I've had with people, similar to what Carl had said, very frugal, don't want taxes to go up, but they're also beginning to see the need,
080as Jared said, that, you know, there's a need for change. There's there's a need for improvement. that continuing to do what we've been doing isn't working in terms of um maintaining our schools. They also had very very strong feelings that two referenda or even talk about capital and um operational was very confusing. Many thought they were voting on both right away. you know, weren't sure because it had come up through pieces of the discussion. And so clarity around um what we're talking about is is going to be huge. The community also hasn't really seen statistics or data on what those various options mean in terms of their pocketbook, in terms of programming. As was discussed a little bit earlier, where we are in a from a budgetary standpoint, class sizes are going to go up.
081Where we are from a budgetary standpoint, there will be some school closings based on need. I don't I haven't run any individual numbers myself. It's not my job, but I don't know how we can cut 1.5 million then for you know, I don't know how we can make those huge of cuts without doing something bigger. I don't want to see jobs lost. I don't want to see programming changed. I just don't know how we can make the cuts we need to without doing something bigger. And then it comes to the question of if you go with maintenance plus one thing we talked about through referendum planning last year is what is the price tag on that? While that seems very feasible um from an objective lens, when you look at the cost to doing that
082over time, is that really our best option? So looking at that full picture? Um again, I think it was Carl that said many many don't realize the need yet. I think something to the effect of it hasn't it hasn't really hit rock bottom and until they see the overall need um I don't know what the appetite will be there is still the conversation of can we build on to this school or that school and what can we do um but we haven't really talked about okay I know LEAP comes up as a common conversation okay I've been out there there's a lot of green space there wonderful But I also look at how run down that school is. How much is it going to cost to upgrade where that is to even do an addition
083on there? Is that even feasible? And I appreciate the cost per square foot that was shared within um those particular options. Lastly, and I don't have the exact numbers, Jared, you can speak to this better, but when we talked about what the referendum ask was going to be last year, we we bounced between numbers. 7 million, 6 million, 9 million, 10 million, how long do you ask? What do you ask for? And we came up with the most costefficient um ask that we could, knowing that if the referendum failed that the next ask would be greater. And we're seeing that now. And that communication piece to the public is also going to mean something visible because as they come back to ask, wait a second, is this ask really greater? You know, you've had these
084conversations at the last meeting, etc. These are all pieces that to say how does the public feel right now? I'm not sure they have the full picture. We heard bits and pieces. Um, but I think this needs to come to the forefront again because that was the conversation before the failed referendum. That was the conversation where there wasn't the reality of all right, we just cut how many jobs? All right, there's this many more on the table. This is starting to become a reality. Um, and so I think that there will be some different uh there will be a bit of a different appetite. what that exactly will look like. Until we paint a more clear picture, I don't think we can answer that question. Um, yeah, I honestly think that the best path to
085move forward now would be to set aside discussions about larger scale facility planning, make it very clear that our discussions at this time are focused on operations and revisit this after we are at a point with the community where they would like to continue operations for we're talking about capital. I don't I'm not sure if there's any other path forward with what I'm saying. Sorry. Does part of me part of me uh I agree with everything Diana just said. Um and and part of part of me looks at it like um at some point we have to start beginning some planning. Uh whether or not that means that we go to the community at this point this year with with an ask or if that ask happens to be a year from now. Um, but
086planning has to start at some point in in a situation where, you know, and and maybe there could be a a couple of different scenarios where, okay, if referendum doesn't pass at this point in time, then we have to consider kicking this out at a different time. But we still should start planning because we know we know there's expenses on the forefront that we have to consider. That's just my opinion and and it takes time to communicate that out to the public. You know, the needs that we have. I completely agree. I'm not opposed to planning. I'm not feeling very comfortable if we went into the hypothetic scenario where there's two questions on the ballot where we're asking for operational and capital referendums. That would not make me comfortable. Okay. So, let's just um assume
087then we're planning out for the future uh when it comes to a particular improvement plan for our district. Could we potentially plan it like this? You guys could tell us too where we could work towards we come together on three options that we think might be good for the community. We work towards getting those options prepared. We hypothetically go to referendum for operations in April. If that passes, can we then consider putting a um out of norm November referendum in to see if the the community has an appetite for a capital referendum. If you can put two questions in every calendar year, I don't know if that's allowed or not to span it across two election cycles. De said that I I think you said that the midterm elections are uh in 2027 2026 26
088126. Yeah. So you could do one question per and I do think that that seems to make the most sense but I think it's important that we focus on one question at a time. Oh absolutely. Yeah. And I'm not saying we just So I understand what you're saying and I do have concerns putting two on, but what if we from this point moving forward, we adjust the timeline that you gave us where the we would go to the community for referendum in November instead of in April. And that way that the the timelines adjusted appropriately. And if uh our community does uh like the way that please go. I I just I just really need to flat out say this and I don't I don't know how to get this across to the community, but
089we're in a funding deficit model from the state and we need to do both. We need to have operational dollars to continue to afford our teachers and programming unless we want to drastically change our programming which also drastically means changing number of kids per classroom supports that they have everything else. We also need to maintain our buildings. We have systems that are starting to fail that are identified in that manual, right? And a timeline for continued maintenance over the next 20 years. So, like I have to say this, we do need to do both. I just don't know when and I don't know how and I'm trying to get the plans in place to meet the needs of our community, but we need both. to speak to both your points. Uh people still call that
090the new high school and that was 21 million without a pool, right, Carol? Isn't that it? That's about it. Yeah. It'd be 60 million this, you know, today. Oh, more than that. Oh, yes. Pay more than that now. Like 120. So well well my point is that the longer we wait the more we spend. I mean so we do have to do so in advanced planning when we at least get some of the book work done. No so question. Oh go ahead. Okay. So Jared you had mentioned that um you had reached out to the community about their feeling for support to help fund the bill. is that I understand that there was nobody that's confirmed or verified that they would but what what sort of you know temperature are you getting for business owners?
091Yeah. So to participate in the funding of Yeah. So we had we had um invited um not only uh you know business CEOs um but um also uh people like um Mr. Benson from the Benson Foundation was there. Um our uh senator, Senator Jaggler was there. The then mayor at the time, Mayor McFarland was there. And we just took him on a tour of the high school and we said, "We're going to have some needs, right? Um but we also want to know what we're aiming towards. What what do you see as us aiming towards helping to prepare people for your facilities, the kind of work that they're going to be doing in our in our town?" Right. And then we talked about like if we were to make some changes, what would be your
092appetite to help us out with that, you know, for monetary support? All of them said that they would be very interested in helping, but they're not going to lead the change and they're not going to take all of the change on. They want to be the extra special things that will make that community really shine after they realize that the community is really behind the schools and what they want to do. They're not going to invest in something that they don't think the citizens are invested in. If they think the citizens are invested, they will be very happy and very generous to add the icing on the cake. Okay. Thank you. Coming from a politician, I can understand that. Well, no. I mean, I I would tell you that that came mostly from the business
093owners. Really? Mostly from the business owners. Expect it to come from the politicians more. Um, so I I've heard similar thing in other communities where, well, I'm not going to put my six figure donation or even 10 or um $20,000 donation. um it is the stuff on top or I want to buy that piece of uh X that you need to outfit and give this kid additional benefit because he's gonna they are then going to come and potentially work for me, right? They're some on the job training while they're in school. Um so I'm thinking um in response to kind of where where this has gone, why don't we um I still if you all still have a little bit of time, I know Dr. that to leave us. Um but we will hel is
094yours love to um you know continue the conversation and see if there is direction from the board around options at all. Um, but I guess what I was going to say about the timeline is we can certainly also develop what a November timeline would look like and you don't have to make a firm choice, you know, right now, but as things evolve over the next two to three months, then you can see what those things look like. Um, because I think it depends back to the original, well, I call it the original, it really isn't original, but the chart, right, that was referenced earlier in the meeting. I think another thing that maybe isn't going to get sorted out fully tonight, but what does community engagement fully look like? Because what I just heard you
095um bring up, you know, you couldn't probably do a survey and the things you'd need to do if you hadn't already started before your April referendum to be ready because you have to put you have to vote to put something on the ballot. I believe it's August 25th. Okay. and it's somewhere in there for that November 26 that we're talking about. So, you still have I mean that's the tricky part, right? Is backing these things up to when the board actually has to take action is is in advance quite a bit. So, I think what we want to do is you know we'll take the time to build out what the November will look like and then maybe we'll share that back out with you. Okay. You you would then need to decide okay so
096then what does that tell us about community engagement? you know, to what extent is it a community-led on that kind of continuum we talked about and and then you can talk further or think th further about a lot of the concerns we heard raised or you know sometimes it can be confusing to the community when we're talking about operational things and facilities so what does some of that need to start looking like did you want to I don't think there were a question okay I know I didn't want to facilitate Jason wanted to facilitate you want me to go have to and then so And yes, with absolutely want to get to you. Oh, Miss Lynn, can you get us back here? I don't know. Thank you. So, I will totally take what you guys
097are saying. I think just as we do this, before we hear from you all, if it's okay, were there any further questions or things, you know, this is all what we went through together last time before we hear from you and then get into the options? Um, it just was really meant as placeholders in case people had questions before we talked about the option to be able to refer to them during this. So, nothing on here is different than what you saw. Okay. So, I don't know who was first. I saw Miss Hoffman and Mr. O'Neal. O'Neal's I'm sorry. Don't worry about it. It's got no. How do you pronounce it? Aal. Thank you. I will do better. I don't know who it sometimes. I can barely pronounce it now. So, My comment was not
098a question. Um, we often don't realize that this these board meetings are available to the public and now we put them on YouTube. Right. Right. Anyways, we should be putting these on YouTube and sometimes we forget that. All right. Some of them are uploaded. Yeah, we'll be going live. Sure. Yes. Sometimes we forget that the capital, you know, we throw around these terms that are very confusing to the public and whether we realize it or not, we're are making a case one way or the other for this referendum to the public right now as we speak. And um I think it's important to to to note that um we need to clearly define for the public what an operational referendum versus a capital referendum is. My understanding is an operational referendum is the day-to-day expenses
099that we need to function. Capital referendum, even though it has a fancy name, is the expenses that we we have when we replace a roof or do large improvements to buildings that are absolutely necessary for big maintenance items. Am I correct? I would suggest that we get the statutory definitions of those. Um, you are you are very close. I think where this gets super confusing and I really don't want to confuse people at home listening to this is that there are you can't use um capital operation referendum dollars for anything except capital improvements. However, you can use operational dollars towards capital improvements. That's Yes. So like you could correct and that's where I think it gets extra confusing. So that's where I was just saying maybe I agree with you 100%. I think it's an
100important FAQ to get whether that's on the facilities, you know, website um that um Melissa is doing an exceptional job with or, you know, something that we can literally read off or put out to the community somehow. Um but I think that's where it gets really muddy and I think that's where people get confused. Yeah, we need to fix that. Yeah. And it's it's there are some statutos to that as well because it's something I was talking to Jared about this a little bit in in depth and we have fun 46 set up set aside for our capital improvements um and that's coming out of our regular you know our operational budget and we set aside we budget certain dollars to go towards 46 for improvements. However, um the um the magnitude of the um
101the maintenance that we need to endure is not going to even the fun 46 would never touch not even not even the the the smallest project in here. So we have that's why we need to go to a capital referendum for maintenance and it's not not for a lack of planning. It's just we have an aging infrastructure within our district for the maintenance only for for maintenance and and less support from the state to provide those maintenance dollars to fix those buildings. So that's the need that's what I gathered from that conversation. Thank you. And I do have a one-pager that we had prepared for the board meeting a year ago um that that describes the different funding options as well as types of referendum. Um as well as had dates for 25, 26, 27.
102Um and so what we can shop it back through the sources we were consulting with to make sure that all of this information is still correct. Um I don't believe any of the statute has changed. I know there are some things swirling right now in legislative land that could impact some of the language on here, but I don't believe any of that is passed as of yet. So, why don't we get that tidied up, if you will, or reviewed and then we could certainly work with, you know, Jared and the team to get that sent out or they can add to it whatever they would like as well. Thank you. May I propose uh as I'll ask an executive question maybe um for the three top three options that we're looking at on the screen
103because that's what it ultimately comes down to. If and when we're talking about the top three options, we're not saying what are we hearing from people. We're saying these are the things we'd like to learn more about. Can we ask about a maintenance only option, a maintenance plus improvement option where you don't close any of the schools and then a 4 campus solution where you reduce the elementary schools as an option? I don't think people are very interested in in uh the closure of late from what I hear, but I think that just showing people this is what it would look like would be useful information for them. Right. No, I'm I'm I'm leaning toward what you're saying. I I absolutely agree with a a um you know a maintenance only that has to be
104that's I mean people need to understand uh and see what overall cost is to continue with the programming that that the district provides and to understand internalize what that what what those needs are. and the inc the continuous plus improvement. I'm with you. Not sure about the four campus solution, but I think I think I'm I'm with you. The um I think what was the last one you said? Uh the four campus, which would be a uh which would be a consolidation of elementary schools. And again, I'm not saying that I have an interest in that personally as an individual citizen, but I think that it would be good for people to see a picture of what some consolidation would look like without uh that kind of larger scale two or two or one campus
105solution. You know what I'm saying? So, so can the can we have do we have a understanding or can we get some weigh in on uh whether or not we need to see a a maintenance only? Can we agree that a maintenance only is essential as part of one of the options? Absolutely. Yes. Okay. Carl Dan Diana charity do we want? Thanks. Yes, I agree. Yes. I think that needs to be seen. I'd ra I'd rather have one option be taken than no options be taken. That's where that's where you make the case for another option you think is better. Um, is this a good time to uh to bring up the possibility of expanding? Well, when the maintenance, I think that could be part of maintenance. Okay. But I wanted to hear Diana had
106um a thought on on maintenance only. I'm sorry. No, I just said, yeah, if we're just talk, you just asked a question. Do you feel that? Yes. Would you be able to exit out so you guys will be able to see what I'm typing if that makes sense? Like I'm typing live in this right now. So if you wouldn't mind just getting out of the sharing part of it then if they can see the slide or maybe that's not slide 22. Yeah. Yeah. Right there. Thank you. I know it's not going to be perfect but maybe it'll help us to see the same thing because I want to make sure I get down what you guys are suggesting. Yep. So then um so I think the next the next uh option that was proposed was
107maintenance plus. I'm not sure I'm not sure if uh no closures is in the cards for us. But um what if the maintenance plus option was um the we would attempt to expand wheat the agriculture program um and have the student number. So like the average across the entire district for elementary schools is 279 students per building. like that's the average based on the maximum numbers. So it could be where we want to maybe double or triple the size or student capacity at LEAP and grow our agriculture program in the district to kind of make that a pillar of our district that we offer an extensive agriculture program from K through 12. Right. Because the middle school and the high school already have strong agricultural programs. Correct. So like we could maybe uh like they
108would maybe absorb Lincoln student count not like the building where they're in their their target capacity is 164. So is it possible to expand the building where it could have a capacity of 220? Yeah, it's just then right Lincoln then would come offline. So we we would be No, she means expanding the building. No. Uh I mean Lebanon. Uh I was just saying if we're looking to, you know, we're not looking to increase the bodies in the district, right, with the trajectory of enrollment. So we'd want to build a facility that would absorb one of the buildings or a a number that equate a building, right? That would be the long-term plan there. So I apologize. Were you saying that the Lincoln students would attend at le um That's what I Yeah. If we need
109to close a building or I'm not saying that that's the choice. It needs to be Lincoln. I'm just saying as far as the actual student count to increase by uh the target of one of these other schools, right? And and the reason that I I shared that is just knowing that we have an excess number of potential seats within the district, it would only seem to make sense that if we were expanding a building, then we would retract to be as responsible to not provide additional seats amongst the entire district. We didn't have any bodies to build. Well, there's um we're only to meet our target goals in the elementary level. We just need 65 students enrolled. So that would be the leak campus. To uh max out our capacity, we would only need 140
110more elementary students enrolled. So maybe this is a good time, although I don't want to completely derail the conversation. So how target capacity and maximum capacity are calculated is based upon current class size not fire code count if that's the way you normally say it. Yeah. So the the maximum capacity that's if we had every single seat filled in every single classroom which is really that's really difficult because okay the same number of kids aren't born every year and then you spread it out evenly. Okay. So then based on the document then the the district is only over compare like over the seat number of students by 65 students because we actually are over our meat amount in Webster. No, I'm sorry. In one of the schools it was a typo on my end. Yes.
111I was just wondering if there has been clarity or definition on what maintenance plus means thus far is that our attempt to do that right now. We're discussing because that's a big question. Right. So I'm hearing that one part of that could be to expand LEAP. Is there another component to that that you all wanted me to put down or you wanted us to start to look at? Uh, so I can speak to that generally and Lauri, you might have said this while I stepped out of the room, but um I I said right right after you said that, you read my mind. I think from what I've heard that people really value kind of the uh practical uh practical skill set for living in Wisconsin in a more rural part of Wisconsin. People really
112value that lifestyle and uh they want to continue to see that and they want to continue to see those pragmatic things. So, I think if anything, if we're talking about improvements, we should be leaning into the things that the city is interested in. I think the three big things that aren't appealing about the district are um preparing people to go into specialized trade style fields with STEM studies, preparing students to go into agricultural fields, and the music program is the other one that I hear about quite frequently. So, uh, I think whatever kind of improvements we're doing should lean into those three aspects specifically. And also, um, I think that we should at least very at least consider we have lost a lot of kids to choice. And the last person I talked to um
113about why they choiced out of the district was that they didn't like the options they were given, but they were never offered leave. And on hearing about leap they you know they were like I'd have done that right how many other people were never offered that option and and you know if LEAP is that popular why are we not choicing into the district because we don't have the capacity at this point. Maybe that needs to be a consideration when we look at a facilities plus because when you bring in choice students, you bring in revenue. Yeah. The capacity of that building is is so small right now. It's busy half section of school, right? Um the same apologize for calling by the first name, but um I I understand the I understand the STEM and
114and the A for the hands-on part. Can can you just bring me along with the the music part? I I understand having u you know traditions around music and that kind of thing. What what careers if we're kind of thinking about uh career really we're talking about kind of career ready right out of high school potentially and we're seeing that maybe a little bit more of our our demographic. Where's the music side of that go once once they leave uh high school? That's a great question. I think that it's a little bit different when it comes to music. And again, I'm only speaking from what I've heard, which is not what everyone has heard, and it's not all that has been heard by everyone. But I think that what appeals about music to people is
115I think that even though people really do want that practical side, I think they still care about uh there's a couple of different words for it. A classical education, um uh liberal arts, I think, carries a lot of weight with it, but I don't know necessarily what else to call it. One of those two. And I think that people do appreciate having um an education in certain things that may not be immediately practical, but they do provide you with a greater appreciation of the world and certain elements of the world. And I think that for a lot of people, music is what they really tune into with that, so to speak. Um I think that obviously I mean we have lots of fantastic student walls here. I think that it's true of the other mediums
116as well, but I think that music is what really connects with people. And again, maybe if I hear from five dozen people, they're all going to tell me like, "No, and they'll end up, you know, maybe I'll hear over time and I'll that people drown out what I've heard so far." But that's what I've heard and I that's my understanding is people want to be able to appreciate things like that and they want to be able to be prepared for a practical life. Um, and I know that's certainly uh the longer I go on, the more I appreciate that because that's really where where things have gone for for me as well. And so I I resonate a lot with that when I hear people. Me too. Well, same. I think I think what you
117said, if I may, it's just the what you're saying is like the student experience component. They have to go to learn math, science, reading, and those things, but music provides them a space to want to engage in a different kind of way, which if that can contribute to student satisfaction, that might help lead to student success. I think what I'm confused about at this point is we're we're talking about facilities and then we're bouncing to programmatically looking at it. Do we have a particular approach that we want to look at collectively as a board or is it is it holistic of all of these things and how do we prioritize because I'm hearing a music um STEM which is great because I the Skills USA kids are nationals right now. There are 12 kids that
118are there. there's definitely a need for that, but then we're talking about um you know the facilities and the neighborhood schools and all those different parts of conversation. So I guess I'm just I'm just trying to figure out how do we hone all of these different factors to get to what P and Colon need for the purpose of this conversation. Thank you chair. think is happening please verify is that we have centered around the idea of crafting three kind of proposals for lack of a better term one is maintenance only maintenance plus and the four canvas what I think we're doing now is hopefully tell me if I'm right giving P and color enough information for them to go back and say this is what maintenance looks like here's some things we heard about maintenance
119Plus, this is what that could look like. And here's what we heard about the for campus. Let's talk about that. Is that that right? Correct. Thank you. That's good. And I think um maybe to charity's point, so we've heard that a part of maintenance plus might be expanding wheat and this other conversation was great, but I guess are there other parts because part of this for us is yes, knowing programmatically what you want the buildings to do, but do you have other direction for us around maybe the which of the buildings, right? Is it is it maintaining all of the building portfolio, including the one we sit in, and then what is that plus? So, I'm hearing it's expanding le or is any of maintenance plus also pulling back? I thought I heard you maybe
120mention that or reference that that might be well equation. Yeah, I agree. We cannot keep five buildings open if we're going to expand on LEAP, right? If our plan is to make LEAP's footprint larger with student body, right? We would have to down like close one of the existing schools, right? Would everybody agree with that? So, I'm not suggesting which school it should be. I'm just saying the plan should include closing a school if we're going to have LEAP absorb that student body. Um, and part of that conversation is getting a little bit ahead of ourselves. That's is coming up in in the next month at least a discussion about that. Um so I would probably support a option two being um leap programming within within district as maintenance plus. So if that looks like
121that that particular programming happens to be in a different location and that absorbs two schools and you're combining two schools into one, that makes sense. Now I don't know that doesn't exclude the possibility that leap can be out in Lebanon. Uh it doesn't exclude the possibility that it can be in the city limits. But we we probably want to hear from the community on what their general support is for the for the um the refere any type of a referendum building referendum around that idea. And and uh one further question is it possible physically possible to expand less. Sure. Yeah. We we we looked at um uh an option to first you'd have to expand it to a one section school um and that that included an addition. Um once you got went beyond that
122then then it's a a much more intrusive uh operation on that site because there's a leech field there. Um that's how the sanitary system is is handled. Um so there's a there's a bigger impact there on that. And then where you go to school as that road curves around and people are moving at a high rate of speed. what's safety look like um in that environment right in different weather conditions and just period what is a one section school yeah I'm wondering too we we can bring that back and and we can share it with you well so I think so no you're fine so um I think it is good if we just I I don't want to dwell you know I want to be you know respectful of your time too but I
123think so when we say the word section we mean how many classrooms per grade level exist in a building. So, right now, LEAP does not have even one. They have multi-age classes. So, they do not have, you know, a kindergarten class, a first grade class, a second grade. That's a one section school is where the class classes are all separate. Correct. So, that is a multi-age environment there. And and I believe that that is also true with some grade levels at STEM. Yes. So you you don't I I mean I think that's where we were asked to kind of put based upon your current well it's now the just recently school year right but like what is available for seats but this doesn't talk about you know maybe some other information that would be useful
124to the board um around things like what is current class size policy you know I mean we do talk a little bit about that in here but not exactly what the class size is at different rates levels that you have or or how that's approached. That is a discharge policy. And then in addition to that, you also, you know, it doesn't show you how many sections or what the configuration is at some of these schools, right? So for instance, like at le STEM, those are different than maybe we would be assuming at the So those would be things to consider, I guess. Are there other Thank you, Tammy. She just found guidelines every Yes. And those were based on information last year. I don't know if that changed at all in the last 12 months,
125but that was information 12 months ago that we had. So in case that board policy has changed, um those numbers could be slightly different. Plus policy. Yeah, I don't that is not true. Do you have any other information you need to begin to craft a maintenance plus model? So I think what would be useful is we heard about expanding lead. Are there other as well as you know making sure that there are places for specialized trade STEM? We had a good discussion about like music liberal arts emphasis in some places. Are there any other pieces? You know, because one way of looking at maintenance plus right now would basically to say, okay, so we're going to do maintenance in all the existing buildings, but then we're going to do something to expand the ability to
126have leap programming beyond what it is right now. Is there anything else? because when we come back to you, we want to make sure this is developed enough that it's fruitful for the board to look at. Is there anything else or Yeah. Uh really quick, it's something that we talked about last time. Um which I think we all we all talked about it. Uh middle school is uh probably one of the toughest spots to go through in the school process and it's even worse when you don't have any windows and you feel like you're in a prison. So probably uh some element or idea of what like a redesign to make the middle school more hospitable would be. Um I think we we you and I talked about that as well last time you guys
127were there was what's really interesting is how this part of the conversation is start our last five 10 minutes has gone um it it actually like if you just look at the first part of um option C our two campus we're we're talking about and it's not improving the middle school but how do we potentially bring um how do we consolidate footprint from an elementary school lens. And and one of the first way that in that option we did that was okay, do we move the middle schoolers to the high school so that they can get their hands um more on that specialized education um hands-on learning um can we use some of those specialized spaces or does any benefit at from a middle school a level then also benefit the high schoolers? We already
128have those teachers there. Is there some um camaraderie, some development amongst them from a curriculum standpoint? And then what that did was it opens the middle school site to then become a larger elementary school. What if that whole north field less playgrounds became an agricultural area and and look at that the dedication to that program like right in the heart of the community. You could you could see it. So ju just as a like it's it's kind of tiptoeing into one of these. Excited to explore these but just we kind of we have a little bit of the the makings of it. One of the options. Yeah. Um I tried to see what people thought of of moving, you know, the LEAP program over to the middle school that was kicked around here earlier. And
129I thought, well, let's see what people think. It went over like a balloon. I can't tell you why, but nobody liked that idea. And they were they had strong feelings about that. Did you have other ones? Yeah, I I'd say one of the one of the if we're talking about um maintenance plus one of the one of the probably essentials at the middle school location is to have another um egress um going out to Bton Street. Oh, I know. Yeah, we looked at that. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. The other um the other thing that I could see is I don't think that this building is going to be a viable investment of taxpayer dollars for a long period of time. So take ESC offline take ESC offline and find a suitable um solution solution for
130that. So I have down expanding LE middle school improvements or redesign including a review of kind of site circulation as well as taking ESC offline and relocating. Are there any other components to maintenance plus you would want to have us? It's probably semantics, but I wonder if we're expanding LEAP or expanding elementary agricultural program specific the actual location. Yes. Yes. That was very important to people. Yeah. And and then um just do you think that maybe if it's doable by all if it's doable that we should have an option? I would like an option where we would keep it where it's at. But if the cost is just astronomical to build up a building, do we want to have an option where part of it is trying to find elementary agriculture programming somewhere in the
131district, some building that can support that? You know what I'm saying? I'd love to keep link there, but if it's going to cost you millions and millions of dollars to get it or put it say some place, you know, someplace else in the district where we already have land. But um Yeah. Yeah. And then what I was going to ask was Dr. Burke had talked about efficiencies that need to happen in the buildings that are just not there. And maybe I think that is appropriate to put in the maintenance plus um option. And I think she could tell you better what those were. Yeah. I'm sorry. Do you mind just going down to the next one? That's where I have it. Sorry about that. No, thank you. I know I've got some typos. I apologize.
132I will get done. And something with building efficiencies is just what's the right size of a school. So if we're building a new school, what is the size or what's the model elementary school that we would strive toward to have the amount of um teachers that wouldn't have to travel then potentially between sites? So sections. So there there is a sweet spot. It's a little bit different from district to district depending upon how you fall in the state school funding formula and all the other fun that goes into that. Um but that is something that you know I know that the district's working on. that may be important information for you to have as a part two. Um, you know, because there are efficiencies by having two, three, four sections per grade level in a
133school. Um, because you have other costs that then are not there, you know. So, you things to consider, right, if we're having that conversation about how do our facilities help us in the long term with perhaps some of our operational efficiencies if presented that and vice versa, right? Because you want to have operational things that are supported by your facilities. So would you suggest um a one campus model? Is that what you're trying? No, not at all. I mean, you know, you guys I believe based on the numbers we've been working with the district, you have about 10 sections per grade level you want to prepare for at the elementary level. Gotcha. So when we talk about a building like LEAP, which doesn't even have one, right? It has about 50% of a section. You
134just there's different math that goes into that's why like on this very last page of the skinny here. Yeah. The easier one to hold, you know, when you look at the the maintenance cost per student per square foot, you see that huge fluctuation and leaf is at $4.58. Again, this is based on last year's enrollment numbers, but that's why, right, is because you have a very small population of students per square foot in that building space. Whereas in some of your other buildings that are three section buildings right now, so there's three classrooms per grade level, you have other efficiencies in that. And some of it does come from less, you know, elective staff having to travel around town, right? Like an art teacher or a, you know, different. So, I'm not here to say
135exactly what those are in Watertown, but I think given the other tenor of the earlier conversation and all of us understanding what Watertown's operational needs are, I think at some point there's probably a nexus and and marriage of some of those kinds of data pieces with evaluation, right, of how some of these options stack up for what the needs are now and what you can reasonably expect and and sorry. Oh, you're good. Um so so coming back to my question about the CM versus the lead certified uh certified energy manager I'm reading the definition here uh focuses on energy management and efficiency within buildings versus uh lead which is a certification in a green building rating system. Um, so when we're talking about maintenance plus, we're really talking about the certified energy manager, what they
136do for upgrades to um to make something more efficient when you're when you're replacing a piece of equipment. And Kevin Kevin can explain this. We've had this conversation. Kevin knows probably way more than I do about this, but um I think that we need to be aware that when we're making changes, we need to be very mindful of when we replace a piece of equipment, we need to know how much how much more or how much less electricity or energy in general that is going to use. and and there are good choices that can be made that are often overlooked, especially in school districts. Um, and so that should be a consideration in here, an intentional consideration because we're not building a new building. We're we're we're looking at improvements and this is where we
137need to look at. Absolutely. and where I just put that uh in case you're wondering because you're not seeing it getting put. I have just like we did last time with a rolling question log. I put that in there for us rather than on this slide. So, it has been captured. I just if you're wondering about Okay. She was typing but it's not up there. No, that's okay. I I won't forget. Okay. Um maybe can I just ask a question about this maintenance plus uh as you volunteered that an eye for efficiencies in buildings kind of what Jared had been or Dr. Burke had been talking about I guess we had spoken last time about how in the reporting accessibility is in improvements not in maintenance. So I want to just ask is that something
138that you're wanting to see addressed in this or you know where does that fall for you in the in the options we be as far as as far as accessibility in our existing buildings? I guess let me let me share that if we're doing a maintenance plus I want to keep you safe and I want to I need to feel comfortable as being a licensed architect. I I need to keep you safe and that you need to understand what those dollars are. If we want to like have it as like here here's the line item of what that is. I I would feel maybe comfortable with that but I don't think we should extract it. No, we're doing maintenance plus then we need to just make sure that we're accommodating that because if there is
139a project going forward, you're going to have to spend some of your dollars for it. And if if that was like kind of just like put on the side and then we didn't have it, then people are going to be really upset when we have to forego something um to be able to do that because the state would require that we do that, right? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Should be part of maintenance. Okay. Why don't we go to the other one and hear hear what this is and and get that down and then if there's any other thoughts that get generated we can certainly scoop back if that works for everyone. So what I thought I heard you say was a four campus solution. If someone wouldn't mind advancing the slide for me over there. Thank
140you. Yep. Just right there. Thank you. So this I think was spoken about at the same time. I don't know what this is. So what I guess what would the campuses be? So I think that just based on size what we would be looking at and again it's not necessarily something that the board is interested in themselves but it's good to get information about different scenarios out there would the remaining campuses would be Douglas either Sher Webster and the then Riverside and high school. So that's five. So, so it would be basically I because they're the smallest because of what we've discussed with students. Lincoln and Lebanon leap would be the first that would drop off and then there would have to be a remaining uh remaining school that would drop off, but you would
141keep the middle school and you'd keep the high school. Um, so I I think we would have to kind of look at between Douglas, Shers, and Webster, which one would be the most reasonable to uh disperse into the remaining chair. You know what I'm saying? Phrasing it a little. Well, in a four campus solution doesn't mean that there there needs to be one building on each campus, you know. Um, but that is probably more expensive than probably looking at a higher cost. If we did a four campus solution and we just like consolidated the elementary school, Sam, we would need to add an expansion to an elementary school to absorb three other campuses. Yeah. Or would would RMS would would RMS condense to Watertown High School and then RMS becomes the destination for the closed
142elementaryaries? Is that is that potentially a proposal based on seats? Because I know in in the one campus and two campus model they were condensing middle school and ESC to the high school location. So just seeking clarification wondering if anybody any thoughts. I would assume on those options there was some sort of expansion to the high school just because like based on numbers we couldn't absorb the middle school right now into the high school. There's not enough. Not quite. No. So again what the option we're talking about right now is um option C to C to campus and it's phase one is like aligned with what you're talking about right now. Yeah. if the if the middle schoolers went to the high school and and right that connection can be as direct or it can
143be a separate building right next to it um and then the middle school would be repurposed. Do we have any middle schools that um have enough land nearby to put the second middle school? I'm sorry. Do you mean in in your district or do you mean in area districts who've done that? in in our district. Do you have any space? You mean? Yeah. For expanding. Maybe it was just a dumb question. So, so I think this is probably uh option C is uh has the intention of expanding the high school to uh adapt to the the middle school and the ESC. You could. Yes. So, I guess in answer to your question, you could you could definitely add on to the high school. We'll call it the site, right? You could either make it so
144that there's co-mingling, like you're tearing down a wall and expanding out like a wing. You can have it so that they just exist on the same site. So, it's maybe more efficient for busing or for other things that come up. Again, staffing pieces. some of those um or you know we see I guess we would call it a hybrid approach right some districts where they share some of that very specialized space you know think of your culinary arts or some of your other spaces that are really expensive and specialized to build some schools they don't schedule the kids in there at the same time of the day right you might have your middle school with specials in the morning or vice versa with your high school kids but there are plenty of districts in Wisconsin
145who are doing that and it looks different depending on district things. You also have the land to the north. So you could have it right like just right there where the kids all have access to the track and some of those things that are right out the back door of the high school. However, you could also build it elsewhere on the property. Um conceptually like you do have the land to do that. Um, while we're kind of on that topic of what looks like on one campus, not not saying that we have to go down the route of one campus solution, but in handout a number 12 um the first uh link for that's under 12, it says campus setting map. Okay. Yeah. Uh that is an example of a one campus solution where you
146have shared areas and there are four buildings on that campus. So, um, you know, it's not, you know, you you can expand a high school and still utilize those same same facilities for other usage. Mhm. And if if you're going to the north of the high school, you're still technically on the same campus. Yeah. You know, and it's not necessarily a bad thing. Well, there's the traffic issue, though, right? which we can figure that out. I think I'm also very Yeah. The high school I was under the impression that the that the high school was readily available to uh build onto. Is that true? Yeah. Yeah. It's true. Absolutely. And which directions can you go? Uh the easiest is going to be to the west. To the south. To the west and the south. I
147guess it's Oh, stay away from the stadium. Stay away from your tracking. Oh, I see. Yeah, there's like a Yeah, couple options over there depending upon what you attached or didn't choose to attach. And then the the other parcel of land that we've looked at in the past is right north of Endeavor Drive on the other side of that steep hill that's currently being utilized by um the A program um that there's a few acres. To this point, we've only looked at an elementary school on that site. Yeah, we're currently wrapping up um in August um and for this first day of school for this next calendar year two different middle high schools um one in Howard's Grove and one in Rosendale Brandon. Uh so also rural communities. Um you said it was a middle
148school high school. A middle high school. Yeah. I think that in all honesty I think that might be a better option. I think parents would be more willing to have a larger uh school building to send their children to the older that they are. I think children parents generally like to send their smaller children to smaller neighborhood schools than like one mass. It's a little intimidating their first day at 4K. I agree. Yeah. As long as we can get the traffic issues uh sorted out. I I agree with you, but I'm struggling with this. It seems to indicate that Riverside Middle School the maintenance cost per square foot is 21 cents. Yeah. I mean, we kind of talked at the beginning about where the community is and what they're interested in. Yeah. And I feel
149like what the community has repeatedly stated is that they're not interested in a consolidation of of grades. I think that a mild consolidation is something that we could present. But I think that if we say, "Hey, this is what it looks like to move from middle school to the high school." I think that's that does not seem like something people are interested in from what I've heard. Again, though, I mean, Lori, you you've brought a lot of interesting new perspective on that subject and I know it was something you were heavily interested in before you were on the board. Would you say that there was an openness to the idea of doing a a six through 12 or a seven through 12 at the high school? It wasn't really discussed. I I think it's an
150intriguing idea. It'd be worthwhile to at least put out the idea there. Yeah. I think it'd be easier to uh to present it to the community. I don't want to say sell it like we're selling a bad product here. I don't mean it that way, but I think parents it would be easier for them to consider a consolidation of middle and high school than telling parents who are especially young parent or not young parents but parents that have younger children that are in a place where they're having to put their children into a school district. It might be easier for them to know they're going to a neighborhood school instead of big new build up on the hill. you know, that might be a little intense for a parent to I I think it's worth
151discussing with parents. Uh we know what they don't want. They don't want us to to consolidate their their neighborhood schools, but we haven't really discussed what they didn't want. Is there a scenario where Riverside Middle School I mean the river that location is a neighborhood school? Mhm. It's possibility because because it seems like that happens to have some of the best space that we have as a district. Um the traffic situation can be cleared up relatively easily. Um it we already have a pool that's already built and you know that may also mean that you can consolidate three other buildings into that one. So the traffic how would the traffic problem at Riverside be cleared up? Easy. Yeah, very easy. Oh, there you go. Very easy. All you'd have to do when my bar is
152there, put a roundabout and then with one more road going out on B Street. So it is simp it's a simple problem. You bet. You mean where the fiscal building is right now? Yes, you bet. Put roundabout there. Yeah. So I make some more money. If I could just jump in please. I know it's hard to see the hand is raised and things like that. I want to bring us back to the fact um I don't know if Jared's still there or not, but we have to remember that the community spoke loud and clear about not they're very frugal and don't want taxes raised, you know. So, we've we've had a lot of great discussion on what our hopes and desires are. Um, I think we should get back to what direction do we want
153for P to come back with us. Um, I'd like to see price tags with it and and the impact on the community because we can put our wishes all we want and that's what we did a year ago. Kind of the pie in the sky. Here's where we're going. Initial discussion and moving from there. We heard the first round of the referendum. We heard that loud and clear. And so with that, we're doing this in conjunction with that ask. So we have to keep that in mind. Also, it's not just the facilities piece that we're talking about. We have to consider the fact that yes, there's going to be some closures of of buildings. And yes, we do need to have room to add on if people do move in and some classes are bigger
154than others. And we have to consider the need to be able to share supports, whether that be four or five um of a given grade level in a similar building or to share a special ed teacher or whatever that may be. Because the reality is with the funding formula as it is, we will be having struggles um financially because with the ask even when we asked 7 million, that was not to get us ahead. that was to keep us barely afloat. And so we have to be very cost sensitive, efficient, yet I still I agree with all of the desires that we have. Now, I'm just going to ask us to pull back in to um what is going to be a reasonable ask, not only from our community, but for us to ask from
155our district administrators to put this function forward to provide the needs that we have for our students. So, I have been kicked in and out um of this meeting due to some Wi-Fi issues. right now. I have to leave at this point in time. I just wanted to state that before I go. So, I'm sorry for interrupting in that. I just wanted to make sure that that was heard. Thank you. Thanks, Diana. So, to help you create building or camp as well. So, tell me if I'm okay and what I'm hearing and because I think we've had a couple different ideas about this. So, I'm actually starting at the bottom if that works for you. So, with the campuses, I'm wondering if as we go back as a team and do some work, it's the
156high school campus stays as a campus, but looking at that either as just the high school or potentially a joint site with middle school brought onto the campus someplace. So that would be like a campus, the middle school sites remaining as either a middle school or perhaps being repurposed into, you know, I think I just heard somebody say two or three of the current elementary schools would fit in that building. Y um so you know, like we're looking at that. Then we're looking at kind of reviewing from some of the options that have been vetted but also taking in any new information from the district but looking at kind of Douglas Shurers Webster you know of those three maybe what those other sites look like site or sites so that even if we went to
157let's say the middle the current middle school site became an elementary school for instance you still would have additional sites for elementary in other locations around the district. So, so being fis fiscally responsible here with our maintenance plus we need to understand what the savings are with our new plan fiscally versus the maintenance the straight class maintenance. Where are we saving money by adding all these improvements? So, I'd like to see that in the maintenance plus like what are we getting for our money and how much money are we spending as opposed to just the maintenance? And can I can I follow up on that? Because I think that's kind of the same question I asked last time. And I think what it comes down to, and again, please correct me if I'm wrong, but
158this is my understanding is no matter how you cut it, if you're doing more than maintenance, it's going to cost more. Even if you're taking into account some savings on potential maintenance items that you do not have to complete, you're still going to be spending more overall. It's going to be larger. What I think that the appeal of this is we are talking about three different options. The purpose is not to say we're going to present any given one of these. The purpose is any of these are going to cost some dollar amount. At this point you have those three options and you go hey this is something that we're looking at down the line just because it's a reality that money will need to be spent. What are people interested in? And you can
159present those three options. You know you have the four campus solution. You have a maintenance which is kind of a if people want to expand and keep the structures that they currently have and then you have a maintenance only which is uh a flame chain option which might be the one that people want. I think Carlo was speaking to that earlier and that would be my inclination as well that that's where people would want to go but it's worthwhile for people to have all those options so they understand this is where we stand but yeah but but would like to see the apples to apples this option is going to cost this much more or less so than this option we we can absolutely do that um when it comes to like operations um and
160uh the building heating and cooling we we can't get to that detail because part of that is like right we've done maintenance um and if the building doesn't have AC we've not planned on it having AC typically in new buildings they they come with AC um if you add AC to any kind of building it's going to cost more um because that's a cooling load that you didn't have before um so I guess if we're talking about straight um operational or utility bills we won't be able to get into any kind of calculation with we we could probably come up with something like that because We we just put air conditioning into shers and Douglas. So if I can jump in the hard part with that is that's also a question that comes. We could
161do like you know we talk about an operational what it costs us per month for utility. We could jump on the Oregon bus and put a significant investment in capital to be net zero energy wise. Right? that's going to significantly reduce our energy costs in an operational capacity. We could also spend as little as possible and you know put in regulars or standard efficiency boilers, things like that to save money on the capital side and then pay up the nose on our operational. So that's why it's really hard to give you what you're asking for with these straight appleles without having those guidelines. So So I wasn't I wasn't asking for a drill down that far. Okay. Um I was I was asking for, you know, what's it going to cost you? What's it going
162to cost the taxpayer like the mill rate, right? With these different options that would cost benefit uh analysis um because we we've seen I apologize I I misunderstood the question. It's okay. Yeah. So, so, so we've seen a lot of a lot of shiny pages here, and we've seen some good data, but it's we we're not we're not seeing for the the forest, for the trees here in in general. There's a lot to digest. There's a lot to slide through. The public is not going to want to do this. So, you not have the time to do it. They need a what is it going to cost me? What's the benefit? And these are the three options. To that point, I'm wondering if I can attempt to summarize what I think are the two to-dos
163for our friends here. One is uh to uh develop some ideas around maintenance, maintenance plus, and a four campus model with as many dollars and cents that that can be at this point. And then the second big to-do I wrote down was timelining working backwards. What a capital referendum timeline would monthto month looking at November of 2026 for the question. Is that right? Thank you. You're welcome. Tenative tip. Just looking at what you know what what it would look like and when it starts when the conversation starts. Okay. Any other requests for P and C as we look towards our next session? But wouldn't it be much cheaper to build onto that school because it's ready for it because the high school it would be much cheaper, right, to go to go out from one
164of your wings that that already been there because of I would imagine that the uh heating and cooling should be there already, right? No, usually. No, it's it's like right. You don't want to spend more money than you need to when you start. So, no one wants to build that in just like a lot of times people think you can go up with building construction. It it costs a premium. It might not be as much as people think, but if you don't do it and spend the extra then it it costs a lot more to do it later. So any kind of sizable addition or really any kind of addition period would have its all all of its own um services in in in my side of things guys. Yeah. That that would be really
165good from a utility standpoint and utilities all size say my planetary my sewer now with some of the code restrictions that run off of water. We still have to do all that work that I'd say maybe in the past maybe would have had to do. So, it's hard to say. It's it's as straightforward as you can. Um, is adding on to a newer building probably easier than an older structure? I I would I would say yes. That that would likely be easier. Um, just because of if you did tie anything between the two buildings, likely there's more area above the ceiling. You can begin to think about doing that. What kind of system might be shared if there was any? And the site at the high school is I mean imagine trying to do construction
166on Lincoln and its location and the community, right? Versus like what you have the ability to do at a place like the high school by comparison. So define easier, right? Or but I mean it it depends on how you Yes. But there would be Yes. So I this is where we also wanted to get a quick bit of input if we can. Um, I know that we have some some pieces coming up and it's also possible respecting that the board does not feel like decisions on this can be made tonight. Um, but wanted to kind of turn over to Sean to talk a little bit about maybe um, back to how we started, which is how can we better engage the community as this ramps up again. Thank good discussions and talking about this specifically.
167So before that, we kind of came up with this plan for how we wanted to engage the community. Um, looking at those options, the August 28th 8 through 10, they all Watertown staff. That one we've looked at and that one is pretty well down the path of let's get some engagement from our staff. These other community ones, that's what we're really looking for for you guys to say, all right, hey, we've got these options. You're going to come back from this state. Let's start grabbing some of those information, some of that feedback, excuse me, some of that feedback from the community. um within those that aspect. I know we touched on it a little bit earlier, but what do you guys see as the best practice and the best way to get that community feedback?
168There has been in the past year some attempts to and some of those that were involved previously. Some of those just weren't well attended by the community. So, we need to think about better strategies getting in front of them. as you talked about earlier, I know looking at going from the hybrid model to more of a community based one. That's really what we're going to be kind of coming together with, figuring that stuff out and putting into those plans. Um, obviously want to get some dates in front of us, but I want to get your guys's feedback on, hey, per these discussions we've had tonight, we really need to take a, you know, a break from that. Why don't you get this information back? Let us digest. Then we can kind of step start to
169set up some of those community outreach dates. So, what are your guys' ideas for when we want to start engaging the community? Well, I think as board members, I think we we will be doing this immediately. Uh I think that's that's our role as elected officials and um I think that's that's the best first step. Um, and then we can go from there. I think I think planning too far ahead on something um leaves out course correction and um I that's just my opinion. I like what I heard with the host homes that we find key members in the community and they host neighbors, people they know who work and stuff. I think that's what got us that new high school and u I think if the community takes the lead on it like your
170idea Lori that you know we listen to them I think it's always going to be kind of hybrid in a sense but we we lost that uh referendum by a lot and so we really need the community to take take the reigns and run that. So I would like to see us, you know, all of us think of people that would really have uh, you know, make an impact by hosting in their homes. I guess I'm a little hesitant um to suggest uh time frames on this because because of the the failed referendum. I I'm I I see a lot going on with our community that can be promising uh when it comes to when it comes to development on the south side of the city. And I think that that that growth is needed
171and that will tell us a lot of where our community is headed. you know, uh, it's a matter of timing, though. I think that you're right, engaging the community early and often and discussing this is a good thing. However, it's easy for a community to misconrue that as, oh, you're going to hit us with an operational referendum and then you're going to suck us with a a building referendum watch because that's exactly what happened last time, you know, and It's like that's not what we're intending at all. We're trying to intend for a long term. But that's we're asking them what they want. We're not telling them what they what we think is good for them. I know. And that's the way we felt last. That's the difference. Yeah. I guess as far as me
172as it goes to planning. I' I'd like to wait because the conversation should be coming up on if we're going to be taking our initial referendum or an operational referendum to the ballot, right? The board hasn't decided that yet. And if we vote that we are going to take it to the ballot box in April, it might be good to align those meetings together. So it can be made clear at all the meetings together that these are two separate things. We are going to be taking option A to referendum in April. And we're getting a a feeling, a sense of where the community might land on long-term maintenance goals or long-term, you know, capital, but I I I hesitate committing to any date until the port is decided on our operational referendum. Yes, I agree.
173All right. So, it sounds like you all want to take some time, right? We'll do the homework that was asked of us and in the meantime, we'll just hold on this as possibilities and see kind of where things go from here. One more question. Was there a census projection uh included in this? Yes. A third party um consultant worked with the district and the roers. Okay. Yeah. That and we have that information. Yes. Very good. Thank you. Thank you guys so much. One thing I'll just add, as you look at that timeline, great with pausing and all that stuff, but as you're looking at that timeline between now and we meet next, you can easily look and say, "All right, we need to start engaging at this point at this point." So you guys can
174use that guide as you're trying to decide what are the dates that we actually want to submit questions on. That's all, right? Yes. And so what you have, you know, it's really a difference of basically six months. So we will certainly update a timeline for you, but if in your mind you're wondering between now and then, you know, what does that look like? Really, it's just plus six, you know. So, I think the part that you're really going to want to spend some time thinking about is is how do you have a separate message but the same information like you were just talking about, but how do you get communitywide survey data for a capital referendum? That is really important to do. Um, we really see a congluence between what communitywide is in and it's
175it's literally facilitated mail to every different mailbox in your home in in all the homes. Um, and and that tends to tell you what will or won't work on a ballot. Um, now districts do it sometimes for operational, but they especially do it for capital. It dep that we don't do that work directly. We work with people who do that work. Um, so they would have to give you a quote. I mailers are not cheap. Yeah. No, but the whole survey process, there's mailers that your district may choose to do for, you know, community engagement. And that is we found very beneficial, too. We understand social media and things, but not everybody's on social media. And so that's something where in your own district you probably have a sense for what percentage of people like
176to get news from radio, TV, you know, a news your daily do, you know, different newspaper, different sources. That's kind of information that's useful to have because you still I we would recommend you doing a communitywide survey that does get mailed into everybody because they respond and then you know and there are very few communities who've done that. And when they heed what the community says in that survey results, they are far far far more often than not successful because they're determining tax threshold to your point earlier Lori about mill rate. Like that that's how the questions are asked, right? You might be giving multiple options, but you're usually giving a mill rate attached and a time frame like phasing. There's a lot of really good ways these companies are very sophisticated because it is
177what they do. it's their bread and butter. So, I'm not here to promote one specific company. Um, but just to let you know, I think it's worth on the timeline when you look at that. Again, realizing that that's built in there because it's a very good opportunity for your district to make the right choice or know if this is the right time at all or not for your district. So, I I think what I I think we I feel that this was a productive meeting. I feel like we got down to three options as a board, you know, based on what the temperature of our commuting community that we feel and um we have an idea of the timeline. Was there anything that we missed? All right. Appreciate it very much for your feedback. We
178appreciate it. Excellent. So thank you very much. Thank you. Yeah. So do I hear a motion to move? Um please and I will have both a second. I hear a motion. A motion was moved. It was moved by Sam and seconded by Carl to adjourn. All those in favor say I. I who's standing