001I may just back up and go I'm hoping I'm hoping that the the other two maret and and Sarah you got to take care of yourself but I understand what time did we get out yesterday yes it was like 92 something only 9 minutes only 9 Minutes 7 to 919 you [Music] go minutes discuss St too deep summer school we talked a little bit minutes over what kill jum she's you parties has the best it's my weakness about mu because I drive right by it I'm like and the Whopper oh my God I love bur Kings is that the corner one ofes they tried to do a thing they were like serving popcorn it was the weirdest thing but it wasue and it was [Music] there I no I'm gonna I'm gonna talk about it
002but I'm not GNA we're not discussing [Music] could been conversation between two of us could well we can we can we can leave it as is but I'm well I'm disappointed too so you chose thank you for not holding up to your comments coming to [Music] done this meeting is being recorded you B uh the time is now 5:30 I call this meeting of the policy Review Committee to order um I have provided a uh document to members that are in attendance regarding of Pol committee policy procedure and expectations uh in regard to an email that the board president had emailed to the uh um board as a Monday night Sur surrounding committee meeting and procedure um I will say this in a nutshell that board policy 8140 is active policy that states that specifically
003that board members shall be um shall have the ability to participate in board meetings uh including committee meetings and um that was affirmed on February 26 2024 with resolution 9272 where the uh where it specifically states that the policies of the Neola policy work uh will become active until the entire Neola policy book has been adopted at the end of the Neola alignment that board the board passed that resolution unanimously um is this something that we can do even though it's not on the agenda uh we're not discussing it so I believe if I may um Craig's just gonna say how he's running the meeting tonight right oh that's he he he's sharing that I believe you can tell me if I'm wrong a a communication went out from the board president stating he'd like
004to see this at the meetings and Craig's gonna say thank you board president I'm gonna run the meeting this way tonight right until until the board can have further discussion regarding that topic so um I Le several of um existing policy as well as parliamentary Authority I'm not trying to put anybody on blast I'm just trying to trying to state that there's some confusion and that um hopefully we can have a future discussion to clear that confusion up okay all right also um just you know procedure to clarify matters between um members uh should come with an agenda topic and an agenda board meeting all right um the first topic of discussion is um um is this be entered into the official record if this is I provided it to Lynn so if this is
005entered into the official record this should have been provided prior to the meeting for the agenda so it was part of the public information part for a communication plan noted um all right policy so we're going to start with the administrative guidelines regarding transgender students um right now you see before you several different drafts uh uh one of which was the gender support uh the the way that the committee had left this is that we had provided uh a request that uh the sponsor of this particular policy would move um would get together with the superintendent and potentially legal counsel to come together with a policy that would be fairly consistent in language and format to that of um the the policy draft b or a we're assuming that um draft a is not on
006the table for discussion tonight in the sense that that particular draft was uh referred back to committee for further refinement and discussion as a result draft B was then the uh administrative update with some changes for uh uh parental U notifications moving forward in alignment with what what the board had um conveyed as a bit of a consensus that parents need to be informed of what moves forward so then uh draft s was brought at the last committee meeting and then we uh we request ested that Administration and the sponsor of that particular draft again put together something that's a little bit more consistent with uh with B so with that said uh I read through this I had some specific questions I guess but uh my my question to to the sponsor would be
007does this uh what changes were made along with Administration to to be able to accomplish that request yeah so there were some questions about uh clarifying language I think for the most part so for instance clarifying uh the word sex with biological sex since there's some discussion about the difference between sex and gender and things of that nature and since we're dealing with a gender support plan we wanted to make it clear that when we use the term sex we're talking about biological sex so we altered the usage of the word sex throughout the say biological sex um then uh there are a couple of other minor changes that we made um not from draft B to draft s but from draft s to draft s version to um let me find quick um uh
008under uh item three a I2 it's on page three um student and or parent request for an accommodation to this guideline shall be considered by a team of District staff on a case-by Case basis in consultation with the student students parents director of student services Etc um and any other individual District Dees appropriate all decisions related to such a request will take into consideration safety and privacy of all students that's something that we added in there uh previously we only had um the number one in that sub section okay then um under sporting events extracurricular activities that's on page five letter B um that gets a little confusing it's not letter B under number three it's the it's like halfway down the page extracurricular activities um we added in a clarification about the rules of
009the WIA and any consideration of alternate placement um due to a student's gender identity must comply with WIA policy and be approved by by the board [Music] um uh let's see if there was any other change I think those were the three big ones I think that there were some small spelling changes uh but nothing major besides that do you remember anything else Jared no but um since then on the WIA portion um in our extracurricular activities um draft that we put together we also recognize that there are some other organizations that say like our dance team belongs to our other teams um we want to make sure that we're consistent in language so um if this moves forward to the board I'm going to take the Liberty to substitute that language to say the
010WIA or other governing bodies sure right um so that that's basically how we set it in that other policy I just want to make sure that we acknowledge there are other governing bodies that are with some of our other organizations that we adhere to gotta any other um any other updates or changes uh no those are the those are the three major updates and changes that we made those clarifications T um first when when you started I was never given the impression that draft a was no longer an option true I know that the committee had you know like hey we want to see different you know options and things like that I know at one meeting it was like okay well let's put forth you know one of these other options and a draft
011a option um so and and being as how it's in our you know public comment content and things like that um can I can I clarify that really quick okay um so the reason I'm I'm trying to I mention that a is off the table is because we had that discussion already as at at the full board meeting as well as at the committee meeting and it came back to the committee meeting as uh being referred to and and certainly something that can be opened up for discussion at the full board meeting at a later time we've had that discussion um if there's if there's something that you see that you want to address regarding a policy draft b s or the second version of s let us know so how did I'm sorry so
012where where did this happen that draft a was completely out I'm not saying that's completely out it was referred back to committee so so then so then we were to work on an additional drafts of that particular policy and and policy if we recall the draft a doesn't have the parental um it only has minor changes to it that that the um the board felt that there was additional work that needed to be done done to come closer together to to agreeance moving forward with the policy so that's why I say that the policy that draft a didn't quite fit the bill with what what the uh what the board had directed the committee to to move forward with on further discussion if I I remember kind of somewhere in between those two um uh
013Recollections my question uh Craig right now what is the standing order in hand if something presented itself right now for Action by staff Administration teacher principal what have you what document would they referred to what is the standing order currently the there is a document right what is it that that is the transgender guidelines that uh was um provided I basically produced by Administration um 2019 s right that's the 2019 document that's that's not draft a which which has which is even draft a which is not draft a and has not been um approved by the board well as far as were here in 2019 as far as we know there's no there's no documentation to suggest that it was approved by the so there's a 2019 document that resembles a and or B that
014would be considered orders at hand F because to to your point to Tina's response what I recall was draft a was out there there were certain members who w't un comfortable with it and we voted to move it forward there was resistance to that because it still wasn't fine-tuned enough but in doing so that means orders in hand are orders in hand there is no standing document that requires parental notification at this point because by default we have to default to what was originally in position at 2019 so I kind of agree with Tina I don't think a is off the table we're still in the process of refining from A to B and given that a was never ratified B was never ratified of course neither was s or V2 of s so now
015the only existing valid document is the one from 2019 as uncomfortable as we all may be with it right it's the only one that's in the book verify my my point if there's any other additional comments that you want to make in regard to uh the first trap fine I I'm assuming that for this for the efficiency of the meeting that we've covered those concerns sure go thank you for working through that um there is just you know what how wherever this goes I would like to make a statement regarding drafting okay um I do understand that there's strong feelings about the proposed transgender administrative guidelines and this may be a topic not understood by some it may be a topic that isn't consistent with personal beliefs however we are public school and have a
016duty as a nonpar physician to not not govern with personal beliefs and to follow the law I stand strong and unwavering to adapt draft a because it follows the law of Title 9 and it follows the law of the Seventh District of where we reside we need to follow the law of the Seventh District if we choose to adopt any other version we are breaking the law not following the regulations from the Department of Education we Face the possible loss of our federal funding we also risk strong financial implications for the district and furthermore when a lawsuit is brought to the district our insurance company will cover and to settle the claim however continuing to pursue it will not be covered by our insurance company so of the drafts presented draft a is the only
017draft that follows the law that was the draft that was put together by our Administration including Dr Burke our attorney and follows the case of Seventh District Court of which we are in thank you I I I want to clarify something here on the statement was made that um the insurance provider wouldn't cover uh a a claim which is actually factually incorrect the um the document does speak for itself it does make a recommendation to uh to align somewhat similarly to the the seventh Circuit Court uh there are also some legal Court uh matters that have been uh adjudicated recently that also lend itself to the seventh Circuit Court um being on somewhat uh thin ice when it comes to how how that particular um case has been uh adjudicated as well um so other
018particular rulings U recently May likely uh abgate with and um AC uh so it it may actually still it's still an unsettled question as a there's continued there's a continued Circuit Court split between the 11th circuit and the seventh circuit so um the insurance company probably wouldn't necessarily be within their best interest to make a statement that they would not cover a school district so just just a point of fact in this um document that we got from our insurance company um it says that they hold the right to settle a claim or suit that they feel they cannot be won the decision will be based on her experience and on the case by casee analysis any such decision will be communicated to the district with all deliberate speed if a district chooses to continue
019the defense of a claim against our recommendation it will do so without our continued payment of Defense cost at their own Financial Risk that's what I was referring to um and I understand there's ongoing litigation there will be for you know however long in a lot of different areas but right now our district s ruling follows draft day like that's what we're that's what we're governed by right now so then so then I I understand your point so then the question then becomes does uh does any of the other drafts really not apply with the seven circuit because yes because well I would the I think the main difference between and could I future also request as far as like when we have different drafts I realize some of them are completely different but if
020you get follow the lined out format it might be more helpful that way um but as far as the information that I have is draft B is similar to a but it follows the 11th Court which is the difference in the bathroom issue and so does s and S2 so that's the 11th District we are in the Seventh District and the Seventh District is only followed with draft a any additional comments Sam go ahead yeah um I would like to speak to that since I sponsored draft s i put a fair amount of work into it I wanted to make sure that we were supporting all of the families in the district uh not only some people's perspectives but they we were ensuring the safety and privacy of all students I think that's important to
021keep in mind um as far as the legality the question of legality legality is determined by it's determined by Congress it's deter on on a federal level it's determined by the legislature on a state level um laws are not determined by courts courts make ruling on the basis of law is currently what we're dealing with seventh circuit 11th circuit all of these things their how cours are choosing to interpret the validity or lack of validity those laws have draft ass's goal is to ensure that not only do students receive the respect that they deserve but that everyone has an opportunity to look for to look for safety privacy and security it's uh I think it's important keep that in mind and if people are you know thinking about moving forward with one draft or another
022I would say that it's very important that a number of the people in this community quite a number of the people in this community at least 700 by my count as uh last I check are are heard and are represented when our board is deliberating on how we're going to handle these these issues um as far as the insurance company goes I think it's really important important to remember that uh over the last 50 years not a single school has been dropped by their uh legal insurance providers not a single school has been dropped um no matter what's happened I mean that's including any possible combination of circumstances it's very unlikely that they're going to be dropped now um you know I think we've all received some emails with people showing us different size of
023the circum uh situation different circumstances that are happening talking about other districts like Magano uh Kettle Marine a variety of others I thought that was curious so I actually uh got in contact with one of the board members uh in Kettle marine and I said hey how is this going for you you know we've kind of been deliberating this and uh this board member told me that they are still going they still have their uh their insurance provider and uh everything is going fine um they did clarify for me when I asked them if they were being currently sued they said no no no it's just a complaint that's a different process that's something that's worth looking into to clarify between those two and then as a last Point um our district is not under
024the uh is not subject to those penalties from uh the federal government that is something that was stated in error our district is currently uh it does currently have you're referring to the title Title Nine injunction yeah the Title Nine injunction yeah uh in regards to the title n changes uh our district does currently have uh at least one member uh uh moms for Liberty en rolling a student here so I don't know where that information came from I saw it in the emails but I did want to clarify that what we're talking about the validity of draft s versus Draft A or B um I understand that draft a fits certain perspectives in World Views better I did want to try to make draft s to Encompass and satisfy as many people as possible
025right um I think I think the importance of when we consider cor policy and and I I realize that there's there's um a lot of families out there that are are hurting um and that you know I can't imagine what people are going through um on both sides of this um but it's also important to note that um the the constitute the 14th Amendment right that parents have to direct the upbringing and education of their children applies equally to parents whether it is that your child has blue hair or blonde hair you get the gist of what I'm saying that we all that we have an obligation to look out for the rights of everybody um and I'd like to believe that board policy needs to Encompass that including those of the First Amendment rights
026of of staff and students when it comes to their when it comes to compelled speech I feel like those are things that uh at Le at least S2 T attempts to address I wish that I do wish that people would be able to put their their feet uh feet our shoes at times and try to seek to understand how we can come together as a community and to try to come up with something that's compromising that that we can compromise with so that everybody happens to have a way in which they have accommodations provided for them uh and and that that's my intention uh I mean as a board member is that we we look at those types of things um and we show love dignity and respect to every child regardless of their background
027or upbringing I'd like to think that that's implied so go ahead FR ask a question um between graft a and graft s word transgender has been removed CHR to your question about all students and all amilies um should that not be included at least at some point in in the draft that we're using I can speak to ask you Craig that question in regards to you know for All Families all members of the community loving and caring for all of this class we have removed that word entirely in draft Des so I'm just I'm asking you know where do fall on on this do we not um within graph ass the we don't mantion transgender at all so therefore if I'm transgender I'm not covered under this policy I'm identified as transgender can I please
028speak to my hold On's got br's got the floor so I'm just I'm asking you know um if you know we talk holistically we talk about the rights of members of the community said 700 by count 30,000 people in this community um we how are we holistically look and and I'm not trying to say one way or another here I'm asking an question REM moove that word out of the new versions of the policy um I I would think that we would want to have that in your somewhere because this is what we're talking about so just putting that out there okay s did you have response to that yeah um I do think that you know I think that it's broader than just the issue of being particularly transgender because as you know there's
029much more than just transgender as a as an identity there's also gender fluid there's agender there's all sorts different things so when I was writing this list uh because I don't think that we would have enough paper if we were to try to print it out I think that uh you know in under uh item one purpose it says the purpose of this guideline is to address requests from students regarding gender identity or gender expression it's uh it's really about the whole spectrum of gender identity and gender expression should we should then clarify that and list that Spectrum I don't think you can I don't think that there's a limit to the Spectrum I think that you know spectrums can constantly subdivide understand that but you know and I understand that lgbtq has been lgbtq
030plus and that has changed over the years and but policies can be updated as things change so I mean I don't understand I don't get under I don't say if we're talking about genders like this we not include a uh you know inclusive of but not all and here including but not you know I'm I'm struggling the legal terminology there um but you know and having some other ones included in this I'm just saying you know I'm wondering so so is the question that a gender support plan um doesn't quite hit the we here's here's I guess my be clar clarify it's we say there's a spectrum we say that we respect all of but we only list male and female we don't we don't list and we don't even they're not mention at all
031in the document and and I don't I'm not saying that we have to have a bulleted list of every gender and the specifics definition for each of them I'm not looking for that but I would think we would want to recognize at least some of the major ones that you know make up 76% of our student populace um so I can again speak to that as far as the definition section is what you're talking about so we list biological sex as definition number one because biological sex is referred to multiple times and then because we clarify that biological sex is either of the two main categories male and female into which humans and most other living things are divided on the basis of the reproductive functions then we Divi would Define male and female right
032um and then we Define District representative because it's a lot easier to say than the constant repetition of the whole list of people over and over every time we could just say District represent so you're saying if you're not male or female you fall under District representative no male and female are the two designations of biological sex not gender biological sex and gender are not the same thing but we see above that students regarding gender identity or gender expression but by only identifying biological sex we're only we're limiting gender identity and gender expression to male or female yeah that's because gender expression is not a biological phenomenon it's a semantic meaning linguistic phenomenon uh gender is about the way that people picture themselves it's about the way that people Define themselves not the way that
033people are defined by others not the way that they're defined by their objective traits all right so if I Define myself as something other than male and female where am I covered in this document you're covered in the content of a student who has a request relating to gender or gender identity what is it an a it's in a where is the transgender is in almost every paragraph in a okay so you because you said I just wanted to make sure because you said that I just wanted to be sure that was the only one that you were referring was the transgender male and I'm I was unclear and I am not specifically asking for anything you know specific language should be added or anything my question is is that I do not want us
034to create a situation in which we have have accidentally created Loop in which a student is not covered if we do not call out something if we do not in so I'm going to use Insurance terminology Insurance terminology when you uh your have coverages or G pass the law that you have to have gender neutral all right so you have male female and X by regulation you have to allow for n you know non-male and female so they could gender act so within the system with to code for this to allow for that we're going to sell insurance in Oregon right just this is an example I know we're not bound by Oregon we'll go there but we don't have that here we say well that's in the detail but we don't have that here
035I I'm saying at least we should call out to say if you don't identify with this biological listing that we have here then we should have a catchall of some in other category something which we don't and and again if you look at the definitions the definition for male and the definition for female an individual of the biological sex that under the conditions of natural development grows to produce small usually mobile gam such as spermatazoa that fertilize ex female going you going with cisgender male here and cisgender so no that's not it's it's not gender this isn't a definition of gender this is a definition based on biological sex and it's to clarify the term biological sucks that right so but that's fine but that's biological sex the opening paragraph addresses gender so we don't
036cover gender you switch from gender to biological sex which is it's wholly okay I understand you're going with that but where do we address gender if I am if someone is a cisgender male or or you know cisgender female and wants to be represented as a female male whatever or something in between non-binary a whatever where do we have that in here so that I think I think that's where we're getting into this impass where we're speaking past each other because at this point in time this particular draft tries to to Define individuals on those premises alone so you're defining individuals on the biological sex and you need to remove the word gender from this because you're saying biological sex and gender are separate things yet you have gender in the beginning of the par
037the first paragraph and you say they are coning their identity as gender expression so we're talking about gender but then we're going into biological sex which is fine so if you're saying as biological sex I'm a cisgender male no so cisgender is not biological CIS means identifies as understood what are if I go with a gender gender term biologically I'm male and from a gender expression I'm s gender male and I identify as male but if I didn't we don't say this in here we don't provide an examples of other genders and and the gender identity we talk around it but we don't provide examples let me let me let me talk about that first sentence then so the purpose of these guidelines is to address requests from students regarding gender identity or gender expression
038so if you as a male approach me and you say I identify as a girl or a woman right you you identify as the gender of girl or woman the kind of you want to call it psychological linguistic phenomenon of woman uh that would be a request regarding gender identity or gender expression so if you said I don't identify as a man or a woman that would also be a request regarding gender identity or gender expression because gender identity and gender expression aren't about the biological binary they are about the spectrum of ways in which a person can perceive themselves or you know how either sometimes it's people will say it's how a person feels about themselves I appreciate that and I appreciate your your knowledge and experience on this but as a parent pulling
039this document up I don't have you I don't have you to ask for the definition on this I don't have you to explain the policy to so we need to have that explanation in the policy you would like a definition of the word gender we need to have a definition of gender and we have probably have have a definition of the word gender expression and explain the different types of gender expression we talk about those things but we don't have this we only identify and have definitions for biological sex but we use gender throughout we do not use biological sex in the rest of the document we talk about gender throughout the document but we don't Define that why we need to make this as clear as possible as a board member I shouldn't be
040the only one who understand is that is that one of your primary objections to I don't have like I said I'm not objecting to anything I'm holding any of my objections and comments for this or the official boing because when we're we can take board action can't do that here but I'm asking the question about definitions and lack of clarity anybody else have any other questions or concerns how about s that needs to be well related to that subject I can appreciate Fred's comments and putting additional definitions for other otherwise ambiguous terms doesn't seem like it's a problem or should be a problem why not put it in there but that's beside the point I mean that just gets us off that topic that says that there's a version that's going to be passed or
041at least recommended for approval tonight and it's a variation of sv2 then why wouldn't have additional definitions in it and that's if that's what fr point is then I see no reason with putting there's there's nothing that harms the document by putting additional definitions in it so I guess I guess no you're you're I appreciate I appreciate the input I guess I would I I I'm not I'm not entirely sure how I how I feel about that being a defining uh Factor behind whether or not people that are going to pull up this particular uh guidance and say oh this applies to me or not I'm I'm I'm unclear on that fair enough I mean I'm not the sponsor and I'm not the author of it I'm just saying I understand where Bread's coming from
042and don't see that there's a harm in additional definitions fair enough I'm counting 72 genders right now just uh at a cursory look so I don't know would you like uh would you like me to provide you know uh an end note or footnotes or two names of genders will'll take up about a paragraph if we really want to list them all but we could also put including but not inclusive Al all and then list the top 10 Oh I thought I'm sorry I was have to list everything we can say examples EG and list some examples is all I'm saying is that you know we do not provide any examples of so if I've got gender expression what does that mean if I if I want to if I want to express if I'm
043transgender if I'm a if I'm non-binary you know what what I'm not represented here because I I what which one Falls underneath gender expression go ahead Lori I'm I guess where I'm confused is and I I totally not I'm not disputing but where my assumption is this is guidelines for a student in a parent who already know I mean I'm assuming they already know that they fit in this I'm not disrespecting or trying to come off to I guess I just don't know I don't know I don't know if we need because what if we don't list that identity we could say it's not inclusive the entire list and that this changes but we have but when they already know that they're in that category by but right now they we only list male and
044female biological sex and what if someone doesn't know doesn't consider themselves in that category advate on that one but I'm saying is that you will have questions I don't see I don't see to David's point a reason why to not include more definition and Clarity um for these things I mean for the sake of moving closer together if that's if that if that gets us closer to something that that's workable you know I'm not opposed to more definition and clarification I'm just you know yeah I mean I can certainly work on a definition for gender and then maybe we could talk about what kind of uh gender identities you would want explained or described because I feel like saying regarding all or any gender identity or gender expression kind of cover the full gamut of
045it here's the question on this be careful if you're going to take this away and you're going to make that those changes and everything that should come back to the committee to review which means you're not going to makeing the October board meeting which is fine if you want to push this off I would rather we took our time and get it right but I'm just let answer that we can't make those changes then just drop it on the board then should come back to the community to review first it seems like that's such a uh easily changeable situation it feels like you could that's process and that's policy you make changes they need to come back to the committee to review before they go if we're going to have a discussion about it we
046should have we should have those def s in front of the committee or for further discussion okay does it no I don't have any additional on that topic so at this point how about you Tina well on this subject I do not on that topic on that subject okay yeah not on this not on the definitions okay I have I guess two questions the first one I think it's for Sarah or jar the difference between a and b they're small expr it's restroom and there's oh gender support plan versus student support Plan and there's a should and a wood but restroom okay I don't want to say that I could merge them all perfectly but I did I tried um that's yeah section D between those two and I will say that seemingly between a
047version a and asent version b d it's a or a excuse me version a it's more or less a forgone conclusion that a transgender student can use the bathroom or restroom locker room of their uh uh demonstrated gender is that correct the gender that they identify gender what they identify with right yes that's an A and in D it doesn't change it that much aside from the fact that they can now request accommodations to the policy that the bathrooms are to be by their uh sex assigned at Birth and if they want to use a different one they need to work with the the called the gender reassignment team the gender what do you want to call it I'm sorry um identity identity and that's really the heart of it I mean do you want
048to summarize that for me just so that I not vuring it like I am so in a it is you can use your gender assigned at Birth you can use the gender that you identify with or you can use a non-gendered bathroom like all heaven or homes right um in verion B it is um that you use the um restroom of the gender that you were born into um or a restroom that is a um what am I saying like a gender neutral b g neutral bathroom but that that okay and that's that's period that was done they want to cut you off okay so as I read that it says students or parents request for an exception or accommodate col shows should be considered by the team of the District staff Case by case
049consultation all decisions related to such requests will be taken into consider safety and privacy of all students which doesn't specifically say a neutral bathroom it doesn't say the one of their birth it doesn't say the gender that they identify with it just means that you start with gender or you start with the bathroom of your bi your your uh sex assigned at Birth and then through working with the I'll say the district you you may end up in a different one but okay and is that really the heart of the difference between a and b okay that was my question for you say I'm related to version two and you may not be able to do it in a nutshell I can find at least three I just wanted to understand and have you enumerate
050the what are the differences between sd2 and B as as I have them and I I have I'll have what I consider to be the differences and you can add on to that sure go ahead um one is the compelled speech which Loosely follows I think Will's guidelines although it's missing some language that was in the will memo uh but pretty close which is you can't be compelled to violate your whatever First Amendment rights and if you want to call somebody a he and they want to be identified as a she you protect that in a religious casis um yeah it's there's a there's a legal component to it it's your your legal name would be kind of where that where that line would fall so if someone gets a legal name change obviously you
051can't really compel someone to use a name other than a an illegal name so that was item one where S and B differ another one um B says that they will participate in inter with the gender that they identify with yeah Anda in consultation with m s says extracurricular activities consistent with their biological sex in both cases yes First St inter mural Sports extracurricular activities consistent with their biological sexs which means that a 15-year-old who identifies is a is a biological male identifies as a female when they go to gym class and there is girls volleyball they're not participating they would participate in the sport that corresponds with their biological sex okay which is different than what is in B yes okay so and that's similar to overnight trips yes more or less the same
052thing okay um I noticed that it omits training and best practices which were in be um not sure if that was just an oversight or not because because this is a gender support plan uh guideline this is a guideline that has to do with specifically what's going on in the case of individual student gender support plans individual student gender identity and expression I felt like uh that was not necessarily relevant because that's more of a policy question about how are we as a district going to train staff and things like that that's not really something related so no substantive it was somewhat arbitrary if it goes back in there's nothing about that language that's bad or good I don't think but it was left out because it just didn't belong in the policy yeah I
053mean I thought it was I thought it was generally not generally not related to what policy is about at its core um I would have to review some of the language that's in there I mean if I were going to you know discuss that at or something okay and then um as Fred pointed out which I didn't notice it doesn't use the word trans at all but I didn't I didn't word check it I don't I didn't look for it I didn't even notice it was absent and trans meaning across is just one part of gender identity and I was looking for something that more inclusive okay so the term locker room is now relatively consistent with version b as I read it yeah okay so right now it's Sports overnight trips um uh actually
054uh one clarification with bathroom locker room um because I understand what you're saying uh on item two where it talks about requests for accommodation it does not say request for accommodation or or exception because the rule is uniform what form and accommodation takes needs to be handled on a case-by Case basis but we thought that the language of accommodation or exception was a little confusing so we felt like accommodation would work better I think we talked about that the last okay yeah you're right we did um are there any I mean with no you on spot and saying where are the other major differences and my definition of major may not may not be your definition of major those were the ones that I saw I was just wondering in the essence of the document
055in the reading between the lines in the intention in the when the rubber hits the road what else does how else is this different than version um no I think that you covered U most of the big chunks correctly obviously the language is different uh the way that I wrote draft s the original version of draft s was by going through draft a and uh changing over language and kind of working with different models that i' had seen from other districts from Consulting with various people who are in the know about these things um and then we kind of took some of the lawyers advice and wrote the uh the the remake of draft S as version two so I think you're I think you're mostly correct there I would say that um essentially the
056way that draft s differs from draft a or from draft B Because draft a and draft B are essentially identical except for the one paragraph about bathrooms and which doesn't really accomplish you know addressing some of the other issues that are in line with the bathroom thing of course I think what draft s really does is it um allows for all parents in the district to have a voice in the process of something that they may find either important concerning or substantial in their in their in their kids schooling so um it's important to not write a document that is going to be used as a as a guideline or as a policy in the district and to write that document in such a way that it gives uh special preference to one group over
057another and so language like uh here let me find it right down here uh language like all decisions related to such a request will take into consideration the safety and privacy of all students that sort of language and sentiment is included throughout the rest of the document and I think that that was important to include because the safety and privacy of all students is at stake here not just the safety and privacy of students who are being addressed in okay um one other I guess question just related to bi1 and that is uh last sentence any consideration of alternative placement this is related to uh Athletics and extracurriculars any consideration of alternative placement due to a students gender identity must comply with the wiaa policy and be approved by the board is that ultimately something
058that if a person was on a uh gender support plan and that was nowhere we listed as a person or as a group Who's involved in that plan it has psychologists it has teachers it has principls it has parents it has the students that has uh what have you so why is the board waiting in on whether a person can play a sport why are we involved we're not involved anywhere else this except for writing the policy why would we involve ourselves in that decision that's a good question I think it might have to do with the WIA bylaws it's in italics but I don't know if that was our italics or their italics so um so that was something that I worked on with the lawyer uh we could clarify with Renee uh if
059if we wanted to and ask her about that specific language but I would be able to offer at least the reason that I was like oh yeah that's I think that's a good idea I think we should put that in I think that given circumstances that are important to the general public and to the overall School population it's important to have an increased amount of oversight and I think that sometimes people in the community would rather have it be that the board is aware of things in a very explicit Manner and the board signs on things in a very distinct manner when there's going to be a big change or there's going to be something that's you know something that's of this level of significance especially you were considering the decision on one student and
060their applicability to a sport is a big change that requires the board to step how many students play on a football team no no no I'm saying one student we're talk about accommodations and making a change for one student I'm not saying the 50 players on a football team most of the 50 players won't it won't this won't come up we're saying that we have someone who's making a request for an accommodation it's going to come up that is a big change that requires the board the one alternate placement yeah alternate placement meaning alternate placement okay but if we have a student who has special needs looking for alternative plac you do not have forview over an alternative placement for year was why would we have that in this instance hold on just I think
061excuse me again some clarification I believe that the attorney was trying to um put into this language and we can certainly clarify with her is that if we give um control over to a board of control outside of our school district a for sports including WIA or any other government Gover in body and they make a decision that is against the perview of this board that she wanted to make sure that this board still had the right to review that and make the local decision that they wanted to make in whatever case came before them but if we have this question that comes up about someone's placement wouldn't that be normally made by the administration so I said I I said I could get some clarification if that would be something that if that's what
062the board wanted to do which is to relegate that decision to the superintendent or to a team that would be a choice um that might be in this policy what I want to make sure I what I want to make sure I highlight for you is that she wants to make sure that you maintain control final decision that you don't relegate that to another body whether that's this board or R team by May and Jared I appreciate that answer um given that in s where I don't believe it's the case in A or B but it might be is that intramural and extracurricular are all in one paragraph okay and if they're all in one paragraph there is one specific that says the rules of Del Wisconsin inter Athletic Association period okay so now we're
063talking about intermural Anda period then it says any consider Al alterate placement due to a student's gender identity must comply with wi policy and be approved by the board that means that it also applies to a transgender youth playing in a in mural it's in the same paragraph it applies to everything above it so I understand your answer with the board having purview over Anya decision but the way it's written it would also mean that the board has to approve uh placement in an inner mural sport because they're in the same paragraph they're CED with the same last sentence in that paragraph so I'm not that's splitting hairs in the way that whether it's intended whether it's not intended whether it needs to be Wordsmith I'm just commenting that it struck me as odd that
064the board was going to weigh in Jared I agree with your answer I'd rather defer to o o against WIA but if it's about indiv individualized uh you know education plans we don't get involved in those we shouldn't be involved in inters so just from a perspective of clarification that paragraph either needs to be separated or that sentence needs to be clarified but that's just for readability and potentially intent but I just point out that it's ambiguous at this point and the board covers hand up for okay thank you Tiana I I understand that you are wanting to have chime in with some questions go ahead oh I had a bunch I put them in chat I didn't want to interrupt um how far back do you want to go I mean one of my
065questions was we we talked about definitions male and female is nowhere else is document so why is it a definition so if those are omitted does that clean up some things do we need all the other definitions but that really can't be answered till we actually have a a clarification What's the title of this policy s because right now we're talking transgender but if that's not the title of this then you know we're we're kind of talking two different Avenues and if it's not the title of policy s are we going to then need to create an additional policy that does cover the lgbtq plus Community um and then last you guys you were talking about best practices they are a part of the support plan so they weren't included in draft s because apparently
066this is only only about the support but when you talk about a support plan they're part of the support so I had different questions I know that's a big hodg Podge based on a number of things that you've discussed but I guess until we kind of clarify What's the title of this policy and where is it going I thought we were kind of trying to come to commonality to push something forward to the full board and we we're going down two paths some of which is simultaneous and some of which is not if that makes any sense so I'm confused questions uh so again um and maybe I had already addressed the first question about the definitions of male and female uh definitions two and three are present because those words are used within definition
067one and they are to further clarify what is meant by male and female under the definition of biological sex um I don't think that it's necessary you've divided into two main categories you've clarified what those two main categories are so I don't know that it necessarily needs a further def there's two categories of biological sex A and B done male and female yeah um and then well and this came up in our earlier discussion where the use of the term male and female the use of those terms can sometimes get a little ambiguous especially when we're talking about gender because there's an overlap between the concept of gender and biological sex and so when we're talking about the way that these situations are handled we have to consider both gender identity and biological sex because
068the two concepts are interrelated I understand all of that I was part of all of that my my overlying question is the words male and female aren't anywhere else in this document whatsoever there those terms are used to clarify your original definition those terms in my opinion don't need to be clarified so if we don't have male and female there if they're not listed as definitions we don't need any of the other 70 plus different genders we don't need you know whatever yeah I understand addressing a little bit about the gender whatever but in terms of the added definitions check done well if we don't have those definitions we don't have those definitions and a student says I identify as a male we get into a confusing situation because are we how are we how
069are we allocating uh how are we allocating people how are we having people uh decide which bathrooms they're going into are we doing it on the basis of their right identification or on the basis of their biological sex in general don't we clarify that didn't David didn't you bring that up with the difference it it does say um both documents I believe say either gender or me sex assigned at Birth or biological sex and and I think that for I'm just guessing 95 to 99% of the population those are synonymous I mean the sex assigned at Birth biological sex I wouldn't tell you there was a difference but some people at the table in the room in the community might say there's a difference but they both use that what Sam is saying is that
070he just went to further Define what his document considers the the the two only in existence it's binary it's either one of the other doctors don't typically sign a birth certificate that says unknown right whether it's needed the diis point it should be taken as a given but then you could also argue that gender could have been taken as a given so it's a matter of how how many definitions you want in the document and he was the sponsor I think he's taken the constructive criticism properly which is if you define one you should Define them all but you got to stop somewhere right otherwise you're just putting you're attaching the wer dictionary to it um so I don't really have a lot of yeah I see I see where it pertains to like bathroom
071and locker rooms because um the bathrooms and locker rooms are going to to um say men or women boys or girls and um this gives that predus to this is what we're talking about when we're saying men women um boys or girls true but you could we could accomplished and not to critique but a gender or sex assigned at Birth does it the same thing without any additional words mean nothing no why not so you're saying it it doesn't it doesn't I'm confused signed at Birth some parents are assigning no set oh I mean I haven't had a kid in a while pretty traditional 20 right right right right yeah but I know that that is okay possibility so you know got it good point wasn't aware that so Diana fur what is the title
072of this policy yeah so the title is guelin gender support guidelines that's in the it's I guess it's kind of confusing in the way it's laid out but um when you look at our agenda here and you look at item and or policies um there's Draft A administrative procedural guidelines undor transgender students um that the title would be administrative procedural guid guidelines transgender students this is gender support guidelines we could change it to to administrative procedural guidelines gender support plan uh something like that um but yeah that's the that's the title we're working with we just this is adapted from a a Google doc that I was working on with h with Jared a couple of weeks ago thank you I mean it just didn't say anywhere on the document so I wasn't sure so
073a question just to put on the back burner I don't need an answer right now is if this does not include anything with with trans gender um policy support if this is just what guidelines when you're writing a support plan do we need to have an additional policy to cover the rest of it because it's only part of what what it would be only for a gender support plan so are you is the question that you're asking Diana to have a like a like a overarching policy that would would be like The Guiding policy that's in our neolo um well these Guin kind of I li I laid these policies side by side by side and I looked at them through various lenses and I sent you an email on that earlier today anyway um
074looking at it so many emails we try and I try to get through them and that's okay it was a crazy day I get it this um and it was crazy for me too this document if we look at the three that were pres presented in front of us it doesn't include some of the things that the other draft a and draft B do so my question is are we going to need to create a policy that covers the things that this one doesn't so in regards to there being uh to the coverage of transgender students that would be included under the umbrella of gender identity or gender expression um those are very very inclusive terms so if a person says hey I've got this question about gender identity or gender expression or I have
075this request about any kind of gender identity or gender expression these are the steps that we go through outlined here so it wouldn't be for any old support plan it would be specifically for support plans regarding gender and uh questions requests about it I I guess my question would be to Jared and administration um did you find the necessary need to have something other than um procedural guidelines so again we set out on this project when I was brought to my attention from the current that there wasn't appropriate language around parrent notification and that was true there there there wasn't um language that supported legal decisions that have been placed for a couple years now that was the impetus of the change right and so we've had administrative guideline in place and it's still in
076place the last six years my goal was to make sure we updated that compared to what is out there right now in the seventh circuit which we're in should we be in 11 circuit I would have wrote it differently should we be anywhere else I would have wrote it differently um that's what I brought to you I didn't realize it was going to um have as much impact or decision- making um as as we're looking at through our community right now just be clear that's exhibit that's that's a that's a right right and so now we're at a different point so um if we if if the board feels we need additional um overreaching policy to um you know help us at right guidelines or or whatever else um I'm here to listen I did
077the work uh that I thought needed to be done and I brought that to you for consideration and now I'm now I'm just listening to what you want and I will impact uh the district with whatever it is the board passes sure not make any board Business board decides that that has to come up with the full board meeting not the can right so Diana did you have any other s questions no but my question wasn't about creating a different policy in A and B it talks about safe and supportive learning environments no where in um draft s does it talk anything about learning environments at all and and Sam clarified it it's more about a support plan and writing a support plan where the other two policies are more overarching on the whole picture
078not just the plan so my question is do we need something that's more overarching that's all students get have that already to have a safe space I don't I guess I'm confused I confused question the answer yes they do then that's the answer I'm not saying D sugges it but it's a reasonable question sure is is there similar similar language as far as like IEPs but those are support plan and so does it have like language in there like safe and learning safe and support environments so I I guess I'm confused as where where the action step would need to be on that particular one I want to get some clarification um would would it be the uh your uh thought Diana that we would also have an accompanying document that would talk about the
079support plan I find that in in I don't I I don't have a suggestion for at this point it was just a question because when you look at the purpose of all three of them side by side they're worded very similarly except draft s does not include language about safe and supportive learning environments so was that an intentional Omission was it an accidental Omission um it's not there and it's not in the in the way these guidelines are and because it's not talking about about the whole overarching piece you don't see anything in there like you do in the other two drafts about professional development or any type of training and so we're we kind of have similar plans but that's a major difference between draft s and drafts A and B so let's go
080back to the safe and supportive learning environment comment um wouldn't all children fall under regardless of uh of of their gender status or identity fall under a safe and supportive learning environment when we have policy that already governs that all I'm saying is I compare the three doc so I'm just looking at the three documents because my understanding was we were going to try as a committee to put something forth as a board you know one document in front of the board as opposed to multiple documents for board vote um and so looking at what are similarities and differences between the documents at hand and that was just for me a notable difference and I'm just wondering why is it a notable difference yeah so the reason that I didn't include that language in my
081revision of draft ask is because we do already have policies in place R of the numbers in front of me at the moment but we do already have policies in place that ensure safe and supportive learning environments for all students and I felt that we did not need to reassert that within a gender Support guideline uh which is very much about the steps that need to be taken in order to properly address any requests that come forward um I thought that we should be concise and uh and uh straightforward about about how those things are handled the only place i' beg to differ there is if you have a teacher that has a student that has a hearing impairment they are given some sort of professional development because it's an area that they may not
082know a whole lot about or if you have a student that maybe um there what whatever their differences may be if it's not in that General Norm there is some sort of training or professional development behind that to help all be successful in that learning environment this um lgbtq world if you can if you will is different for many and an area which um not a lot of people have the utmost understanding myself included and I I'm wondering if that's why that was included in drafts A and B um just as an additional measure which those things are not typically said and done but if we say that hey there's a different policy somewhere that's going to ensure that we're getting the teachers and whomever the support they need to do that I'm okay with
083that um I can connect with someone at a later point in time as to what policy that is sure sure I understand what you're asking that's no that's a very pertinent point if you would like to add something along the lines of uh relevant uh personal development uh will be provided for teachers um when uh when working with uh students who have gender support plans or something like that uh we could totally go forward with that um I I would I guess I would have to sit down and you know we would probably have to hammer out some more detail on what that would look like and how uh gender identity affects one's learning in the classroom and things like that um how a student might be learning in a different way because of their
084gender identity or expression that seems a little bit different to me than a hearing impairment because hearing impairment substantially changes your perception of the world around you and your ability to perceive the world with your senses whereas your gender Identity or expression is more about perception of the self but uh I'm not I'm not turning that down at all um I think we could absolutely put that in there very easily uh as a as a as a point on the end about that professional development yeah I mean I guess I would also add at some point there's going to have to be some professional guidance given to staff regarding what the updated guidance is so so maybe that happens to be a pertinent Point regardless you know anything else okay any other further discussion um
085this so it sounds as though um I don't know from what I'm gathering from the committee there's still yet work to be done on this with um with some of the feedback that has been provided on on on S uh is it the the will of the committee to uh continue to have uh Sam work with Jared and perhaps legal councel to um continue to come closer together on some of the feedback that we've discussed I would suggest and this happened to me earlier this week when attorneys were involved sometimes it's better to make the decision before you spend another $2,000 on attorneys in which case um I'm interested Craig if we were to uh put forth version B to the full board next Monday we would know what the passed if it was worth
086any more time or money for Sam to continue working on S we know that S as it stands right now may not be sufficient we we pointed out no offense Sam that there was questions there was gaps I mean There Was You Know had definitions at you know training it it you know it's a new policy it's not easy to write but if we do nothing today except for tell Sam and Jared and the attorney to go back to the drawing board there's still no guarantee that that bucked up and dressed up policy is going to pass the full board nor is that the policy that they want because we're not taking a vote we would know that for certain if we put forth draft b or a on Monday in two weeks and if
087it passed that would mean you've had the voice of the board and you do not need to spend any more time of attorneys Jareds or Sams working on a draft deaths because until you come to that decision you're waiting for a document which quite possibly may never be I don't say perfect but could always be fine-tuned at every single policy meeting from here until the end of time and in doing that that means we're defaulting to orders in hand which is 2019 and I know G and there's a gap and and and we know the 2019 document has a gap there's no parental notification or involvement in the 2019 version so I'm not saying it's dead killed or shouldn't be reviewed in policy for changes I'm just saying that the one that should be our
088motivation to get passed is a more palatable document and if it doesn't passes we know that the board at that vote is saying you know what Sam keep working on it let's go back and work on S if B passes thank you for your time Sam we'll consider those S variations in future versions of you know the P of the administrative guidelines but otherwise we're just going to be sitting right here again in another month asking the same question and that closes the gap which we have we have a legal Gap there and doesn't mean we can't keep working on S and keep refining B to get to ask if that's you know the desire but at least that covers up in the short term I hear the concerns um I do have some Curr
089concerns of omissions that um were mentioned about B when it comes to parental notification B doesn't have those B doesn't have omissions of Parental notification the current policy does which the current administrative guidelines has it oh so actually one of the other areas that be was lacking in was um language about scooting overnight trips accommodations and in the extracurricular you know the sports category it differed from yours but it was it wasn't lacking it was different yeah that doesn't account for it it allows for students to sleep in rooms that they wish to sleep in on overnight St it allows a boy to sleep a male to sleep in girls' rooms if they want to during overnight trips and that was part of the reason that we worked long on draft s whereas draft B
090really only addresses bathrooms and says you have to file for an accommodation or exception first I think that's a pretty substantial difference okay fair enough but you we're still working on S as if that's the direction the full board wants to go and we don't know that okay if you continue to spend time on it Sam and you spent a lot of time on it and thank you I mean it's a lot of time that's what I gotta for I got my comment is is that if you want to do this again in November and then do it again in December and then do it again in January we could still be working on draft s to get it out of this committee and get it to a full board vote where the board hasn't
091even ratified the decision that they want to go to S okay and so when I originally did draft s it was with the understanding that we were going to bring draft s and draft a forward to the board as two different drafts that's and so I feel like that would be a more sensible solution personally I mean I know that's you know I maybe I'm speaking if if uh if s isn't ready for prime time does that mean we just wait another month to try to get it ready for prime time and then pick between the two and you could again and I'm not recommending one or the other we have a legal Gap putting be in place and putting B up if the board approves it or not doesn't P stop you from bringing
092s back into supered be layer just put that out there J I just want to assure the board that um though the administrative guideline document has a gap in it we have made sure that we communicated to our student services team the need for um that parent involvement piece so the only thing that we would be dealing with is if somebody acted um outside of that and said I was confused but if they're following guidelines I just want you to know we did make sure but if they're following the administrative guidelines as written yes they could go down the path and not contct they could say that they were confused in other follow-up conf Communications from um our our student services department sure um I wouldn't recommend that I understand they do they could do
093that with the new one we would hope they would understand I just want you to know administrative guidelines our administrative guidelines but then there's also administering right we've administered make sure that um they understand how they have to pull things forward so so i' like the guidelines to catch up with with what I've said if we did put together or put forward you know like draft a and draft s to the full board wouldn't that then give us more clear direction as far as to continue with draft us and continue the expense and time and all that's a fair question I think that um I think that the uh the concern then is if if the concerns that this committee has regarding and and other input from board members uh still surrounds some of the
094questions regarding s um if those aren't adjusted and and made to try to at least come together on that are we really giving it a fair opportunity we've already have some investment of time into this um that' be like a little you know like sometimes we'll make a little mention in the motion or what or in the resolution there's like a notation can we do something like that I don't know I'm just trying to see what the best thing is to be able I don't know if that's up to par though I don't David's point a was sent to the committee for the board draft B has not gone back to the board if draft b gets sent back to the board to the committee then then you know work towards draft s but if
095draft B is accepted by the board then you know then then there is no there is no I need to send up to there's no waiting because right now by waiting you're waiting on B you're wait B is waiting on S to get ready and then from what I'm understanding here B is okay B is ready for prime time and if that's the case send b up and if B gets shot back down back to the committee again just like a did Let It Go did a get sent to the whole board though I thought it was just committee it was just in committee it wasn't actually voted on I believe it was attached as part of the documentation of a full board meeting it was probably I don't know what I'd have to go
096back and review discussion points but I believe it was attached as part of okay I can go back and look okay so I try to refine the questions here um posed the committee um I guess uh those in favor of sending uh for for spending um additional time on letter s to have that refined uh of the committee please raise your hand take not taking a vote we're just taking a poll for those who in favor of uh sending beond forward to the board for further discussion and refer like a uh a um recommendation of the committee raise your hand so that's two2 this is this is my again will I apologize ultimately Craig I have no issue with Sam working on it more except for it it it consumes jer's time and potentially attorney
097dollars and there's nothing yet that I've heard tonight that says it's the clear dominant choice between the two options now maybe it's not the dominant choice because it still needs refinement but as I stated earlier when given the choice that we could get some additional clarification on that in a total of 10 days we're not losing much by putting forth B in getting ratification on it now true would do we take that as instructions to the overall committee that passes dead I guess that'd be the choice of the committee um um Al alternatively cost us an hour tonight to talk about it and Sam can work on it again with Jared for another month and get the revisions out to us uh for review questions Etc and we can talk about it again in November
098but then we're going to be coming to the exact same decision Point again and at some point you're going to put B and S against each other at the full board and they're going to either get voted for or voted against so we're going to get to that point eventually I just say let's get to it earlier to save ourselves some time and send D and S to the board and have them voted against each other that's what I understood was the original if it was for the full board to have both in front of them and then pick can I propose this as a course of action to send send on B and S to the to the full board for discussion uh strategic discussion or or whatever I mean we can we can
099put together a formal resolution for each of them if we we prefer but um with the understanding that if there is if there is an appetite to go down the path of refining s in further detail that we would just refer that back to the committee at that time and allow that to the full board to decide well again so looking at procedurally on this um you would likely I'll defer to jar I'm doing this wrong but likely you would send out b as here's your your motion and then you do a substitute motion for S with the substitute motion for S passes then B goes away if you if that fails then B is still relevant and we'd have to vote on b anyway all right and even if B passes in that instance
100just like we do with any other policy changes there's nothing to hold Sam from um you know uh chairing or whatever what is the term sponsor sponsoring thank you sponsoring changes to be to align with which is ass to go back through and then then he has the time to go through make sure everything the lines and everything like this and then he would put forth the motion to replace B with with the new updated version of s it it it changes nothing other than you like B's in place where it fixes our Gap and aligns with you know what we're doing with administrative guidelines and we're still where we are you're still working on it it just means that okay this the that the piece that Jared wants fixed gets fixed while Sam continues
101to work on and realigning and getting the the language on ask we can continue working on that the only thing would stop you from doing that if a board if the board takes action to say don't do this anymore which I don't see happening or and may interject or the committee chair we we've been putting many different policies in the queue I just point out that right now this is the only one per se at the top of the queue there could be another policy that replaces it at the top of the queue and that's your discretion not not I mean that's just how we've been chewing up the okay kind of confused but I feel like asking Jared if the board would approv guidelines but we decided we were going to still fix you
102know work on them or fix some things or some things and it came back to the committee and then came back to the board again what would that make your job harder because now you've given them new guidelines and then we've changed them again and now you're giving them new gu you know what I'm do do you see where I'm like are we going to or are we better off having further discussions and then trying to come up with what we feel is a good one that's going to pass with board un I feel yeah go ahead so all right I I would appreciate some ratification of what we put forth to our staff of how we're operating this year right um we put forth to them draft a as how we're operating and we're
103hoping that something ISS ratified by the board right we are going to continue operating under those procedures of draft a because I know them to be um at least legally satisfying for the district we're in and the state laws because even if I was in the 11th District I'd ask which state are you in if you're in Florida I would write it differently than if you were in South Carolina right so um I just want people to understand we have to be operating for our staff right guidelines are guidelines I operate many things outside of your purview this one I want ratified right because it's an administrative guideline we we wanted to commit to paper what we said to people in a unified format right that has to come with some stamp of approval if
104it doesn't have your stamp of approval then it goes to the next best thing which is my stamp of approval I put my stamp of approval on a because it's better than operating outside of the law so until then we will operate under a until you guys can either ratify or change whatever that is if if you feel like you cannot put a sample of approval upon that then I will wait until you give me something different thank you that's it I mean that's that's how we operate that's how a school district operates um and so I'm in charge of daily operations unless you guide me differently you haven't guided me differently I put out to the board or to the staff this is how we're operating and I am seeking your approval I haven't
105gotten that yet thank you the reason I I just wanted you know because I know we've been concerned that there's not a a good guideline out there that we're in lingo somehow so I think it's fair to say now we can decide do we want it so bring this back to committee or we're following a until so something gets put in place right the staff for following a until otherwise instructed so I mean A or B I mean we're already doing a there's no no harm in sending it getting it approved and then working further on ass but I think I mean if there was if the if the committee and I'm going back to the committee if you feel that b is a better solution than a send b but it aligns with Jared's
106need of getting something ratified so I'm confused on the argument I guess the argument being that um if if we don't want to necessarily spend um bunch of extra dollars on trying to refine uh s um but yet then in we're saying that in one breath but then in another breath we're saying okay but you can still continue to work on us how does that work rationalize working on S but we're not calling the lawyer up on it and if he's looking to align B and S and doing that and working Jared and doing that that's different than we're spending $2,000 an hour on a lawyer to make sure we align in everything thing and and then bringing it back and getting lawyers approval every month when we come this back get it done review
107it and that way and also it it also speaks to Jared's point out I want something ratified I want something in writing so that I can just keep moving forward we're holding that yeah to be clear you have three Avenues um that you vot on either a uh ratify the recommendation that I made B do nothing and the recommend a that I brought to you is still in effect or see tell me how I need to operate differently so I can pass that into the staff and I will I will absolutely follow your will as a board but you have to come together on a decision otherwise the decision is mine to keep running the district just want everybody to understand that I mean I'm happy to add some I mean I could do it
108in 30 minutes after I leave here the things that I've talked about with FR and the things that I've talked about with you guys Diana what you asked about uh um the personal development I mean those things can be add quite easily we could it still needs to come back maybe yeah but I don't know if he actually needs any more attorney just I think this could bear I just want I add the perview of this um which is um none of us here are attorneys and even myself after I draft something I have them look at it before the comes to the committee U and the reason I do that is anytime I change a draft I think I'm not changing something that might be a big deal and turns out sometimes it's a
109big deal and so if we do take another crack at it I would suggest that it go back to the attorney for another review just to make sure and nothing I'm not shading any board member or or anything I just think that that is proper workflow perhaps before you do that though you bring it back to and then just goes to your workflow but goes back to the committee to make sure the committee doesn't have any other changes before you get it once the committee's agreed upon a version then have the lawyer look at it well if the lawyer has to make changes it has to I'm okay with that because that I mean that's the problem process and flow that we're using for Neola Neola reviews all the work that we've suggested and say
110yes to as the final product before it comes to final review for you as a board okay they they look through all the uh notes that Lyn's put together I put together or that committees put together and we say this is what we suggest and if if there's something that um they need to make a change on we work on that change and it comes to you as a final that's we've done that before I think blur where we've written policy I think maybe even bull one of them you said on the and so we did it committee first then attorney save ourselves normal conversation it wouldn't even but I think my brain's going in circles right my only I'll say advice my my opinion on this is that fine having Sam work on it
111fine coming back to committee I just don't want to end up having the exact same conversation we had tonight a month from now I mean every single point if we had a question sure maybe somebody missed one but just try not to ask the same questions we asked last time exactly uh if it's if it's stuff that Sam adds then that sounds great but I had my chance to ask five questions yeah and if I didn't like my answer I shouldn't ask them again I agree so just that doesn't change that I may be the first violator on that and I may ask the same question again just because I forgot what I asked or I didn't like what I heard but let's just try to let's try to move along so it's not an
112hour conversation Sam adds a you know four lines of text to the next version s i I think it's important to to get get this closer to being right and I'm not opposed to um um having having s um continue to be work on worked on uh for the next or next uh policy committee meeting but that's I mean that's that's where I'm at I just sorry jar just one then just clarification so we're clear on the resolution because I'd already forgotten what we discussed last time but it will when it goes to the full board there will be two comparative policies for us to choose from in that resolution correct yeah it won't be pick s and kick it back or kick it back to committee or pick b or kick it back to
113committee it'll be here's B here's s vote on one vote on one and let's move on we'll do it proed the procedure the proc whatever the procedure is I just I'm restating you have the chance to vote on both of those yes I'm restating it mostly so that I remember yeah because I couldn't remember that that's how we were going to do it so I I have a better chance of remembering it next time I think that is exactly how we where we got to this point why we were working on S was with the idea of having the two options it makes perfect sense I just because otherwise we I don't know if we would ever come to a that's right so let me understand from because as I'm going to sit down with
114Jared here and start putting the agenda together for the board meeting the Committees will right now is we're not sending anything up for October we're going to you're going to revise and B is good but we're going to revise and update s to the point where the committee's good with it and you're going to send up b and s in a future board meeting to review and approve one or the other in the meantime Jared has Jared is going to continue using a until such time as we have something else in place I just I just want to uh restate this one more time for you guys as a board too this is my last thing for consideration for you is as long as we stay within the law of the land okay crime mean
115is the United States any rational adjudicating area within this law we stay between those goal posts I don't care if it's the 11th or the seventh or whatever I'm good that's advocacy and I can work to make that work within our organization if you want to go outside of that okay we are past advocacy we are into activism and I don't know that I can work for a school district that wants to be an activist board just want to I want you to understand that okay keep us between the goal posts that have had some rational thought and adjudication over these matters and I think we'll be good not everybody may not like it but we go past one of those on either side um we're gonna we're going to be in trouble and I
116don't know if I can work for an organization that wants to do that so can I ask you a clarifying question on that um do you think that what we've discussed so far is verging on any of that no I but I I I just want to make sure I continue to restate that okay that's an important thing I think it's important for our public to understand that I don't I don't see this board acting in an activist manner in anything that they've been doing okay thank you for the question yeah but but if you if you start going that way I I'll tell you that I it'd be hard for me to make sure that I understand where you're coming from and how I can lead this District sure sure T I would request
117um if we are going to be having these monthly um policy meetings that we need to set the date before we leave here so that we can all attend the because I don't believe we have a November date um and I know there was some confusion um as far as you know publicly we're listed as meeting every other month and I know that have this policy work um schedules fill up Y and so um in order to do the work that we need to do I would request that we set that date before we leave your sure hesitate to do that and I'm just saying this is I would ask Craig and Diana to meet we work with Jared and I on that because a monthly one of this is going to conflict with the
118planning committee and we should have the two of you come U discuss and make sure we align on that whether the planning committees monthly or the planning committee is every other month so that we can do that we can look at this the same time next month in in pencil of it's going to go be on Wednesday the first second Wednesday of the month you know yeah forward that but if we're going to make this a permanent change I would respect that we have to have Diana in that conversation too I just I'm on both committees yeah and so just respectfully as far as like planning does meet I'm saying it you know typically like okay so planning is meeting tomorrow um because they picked another date based upon committee availability which is why I
119I want to make sure that we have that set up with d can we have that discussion later on in the agenda where that's fine but it gets away and I yeah I want to make sure if we are committed the door before you make a decision well it's just it's irritating you know you get sent a notice you know shortly before and I I understand I understand whether it's planning or policy I can understand there's going to be a change but it needs to be well ahead of time right and and not to same but different if we're going to meet on an off month let's just keep it to that one policy to try to I don't say make it quick but we don't need to have a full policy we still have
120to try to stay okay never mind okay um Diane I see that you have your hand up is it pertaining to um the future agenda planning or is it pertaining to um our our action moving forward as a committee the action moving forward as the commit you know the action moving forward right now it sounds like the committee is going is recommending putting up dueling policies yet at the beginning of the meeting you talked about no actually it it sounds as though it's going to be the um the will of the committee to um continue for a review of um policy s for a little bit more refinement before it goes before the board but eventually will be du they're eventually going head-to-head correct yet at the beginning of the meeting you had talked about
121coming together as a compromise and those two policies sit at various ends of the spectrum and so I know this isn't a discussion point right now but perhaps considering where they can maybe meet a little closer to the middle um the second piece and I don't want to go into it right now but I sent a multitude of questions comments grammatical things Etc regarding all three policies that I did not get into nitpicky stuff with that today um I would appreciate if that is taken a look at in that revision process um moving forward because there are some very legit legate items in there to be considered as well so I don't know what that goes through or how that goes right we'll take that into consideration you might want to email those concerns to
122the sponsor of at least this particular policy um but also um there is there is a a first and second read process that that'll also go through by which U minor minor changes that are grammatical in nature can take place um all right do we have any further discussion on those on uh item a of our agenda no okay moving forward uh thanks everybody thank you uh letter B on neol policies group 3000 we have six policies uh High policies rather I see regarding uh um health plans and employee leaves sick leave unauthorized work stoppage um did anybody have any particular objection with those particular policies moving forward would say objection but just a question on 3431 for employee leaves the only question and I don't know if it's just a matter of changing some
123wordings it talks about semester so when an educator becomes employed during the first semester blah blah blah High School is try it seems very but they are different dates a semester falls on a different date than a try so that could be I don't know if we need to say semester or try or how you or if you want to put dates in there I I just it was just something that I know we've ran into that very rarely but it does kind of change the the date if you're going off a semester I don't know that's how you typically would do I don't know how you're would you say semester or trimester whichever applies something of that nature or would that be a question my I'm just gonna take it back to our leadership
124team to see what we you know if it I don't if it makes a a difference in that and I didn't know what like I was thinking more of like you know because it all falls on when you're hired how many days and so technically if you were hired as a high school would you just go by SE semester of the regular um District the the original intent is that we in we treat all of our employees of a C Class the same way exactly and if we're defining it by building calendar it's different right and so I can I can have that discussion point with Margaret again and bring back some thoughts on it yeah because I know on one of the other ones and I don't know if it was on the support
125staff if it was on leave or another one it had actual dates in there so maybe if you just Incorporated what your date you're looking at it would then be across the board it wouldn't be different so that's just a suggest that's also dependent on the topic too yeah because we may have specific dates based on whatever benefit it is versus another benefit that we may have uh versus our our policy holder or whatever right so like yeah I can go back and double check dates Andor semester versus trimester and I'm not gonna argue one or the other I just want to make sure it's clear for H for you okay that's that was the only one um if there's a change we'll bring it back if there's not a change we would recommend it
126we would recommend it moving forward so if there's a change I'll communicate that to you if I don't communicate it to you we'll just move it forward a change as far as I mean is that is that um a minor enough change that the committee would feel comfortable with the administration being able to adjust adjust if they can get it attached yeah I mean specifically okay yeah it's not gonna change it's just more for yeah procedural can sorry yeah go ahead no no um I'll just across the board on these I mean Lynn sent these all to us I think two weeks ago with the comment that uh Margaret had worked on many of them this was from Friday September 27th and I don't want to say if they're good by Margaret they're good by
127me but there's many of these things which I wasn't intimately familiar with uh you know when do we give sickly is it for which member of the family in which case I'm just going to State it out loud that Margaret's likely reviewed all these or has reviewed all these made them consistent with our current operations in which case even if there isn't a exact board policy there was already a district employee handbook policy in which case I I'll defer to that matching that Lynn and Margaret worked on uh as opposed to trying to ask questions on each and every one of these as well what if my nephew's neighbor's daughter is sick is that well you know those type of things I I'm deferring to Margaret and I'm thinking that's probably a pretty good decision
128on our part here yeah I certainly defer the tour I you know I read that I I understand there's multiple reasons for having different dates and or semester versus trimester or whatever so will it change the handbook will it have to cause major effects these particular ones and yeah you know nothing's really substantially changing where staff are going to be like whoa like that I think would be my concern is if we really changing where the any of those are doing that exactly but I didn't read the employee manual I did not I I did have a question and and perhaps it's probably more um Geared for Margaret um on policy uh 3432 when it call talks about sick leave um it uh I'm I maybe I'm learning something new a crude but unused to
129believe will be paid out to any employee upon retirement in the form of cash contribution to tax sheltered annuity account or similar account provided that the following occur that goes through a list is that a new thing or has that been current practice was current practice okay sounds good that's pretty standard yeah yeah I just wanted to you know I just wanted to make sure because if it is a new practice then I would probably have to um abstain oh sure yeah you know yeah so it's good to know yeah there is a cap on it though right yeah 120 days or something sure all right um so there's no objection other than we what we had discussed please go there's a reason for that is because think getting standard practice is that you want
130employees to take their time off and not just Bank it and never take any time off so that when they retire they can cash out so that's why they put so that hey look for your mental wellbeing you should take your time off so that's why they do that it's standard practice most places do that uh moving on to item C NE policy group 4,000 group uh policy 4,000 group three these are mere policies some of them are and for the 3000 group um did anybody aside from the previous um discussion about time periods semesters versus trimesters Andor whether or not that's applicable um did anybody else have anything in objection to those what are they policies see anything around with me hearing no objections uh to those policies we will uh recommend those moving
131forward for first read um item D policy uh neol policy 6000 group one a series of fiscal policies more or less in our business office uh some of them have matches some of them do not um any questions or concerns about this grouping of policies I my question would be this is only a portion of the 6,000 policies then it's it's most of them okay some that were being worked on um so uh Sarah Duncan and Scott Brown worked together on these and Scott had some that he was working on so you'll see those at our next meeting so so uh what I'm concerned about is we've had um we've had um I guess I I would start with a positive I appreciate um the fact that we happen to have um you know fund
132balance uh goals and that particular policy in place that that indicates a 15% uh a fund balance level which I maintaining that I appreciate that carried over from from other previous policy I am not clear however um about other past Legacy policy which which put puts forth a a fiscal um limit of $20,000 uh at least there should be a discussion about that PO there is a policy um that will be coming forward to you in that uh so just uh know that we're reworking that okay um and in that policy that it's coming forward we're going to make a suggestion of a change due to inflation a lot of things but it's that's a minor change um but can't can't do much with $20,000 anymore so that brings everything to you um if if
133you want everything to come to you got so much money back in the day it was it was it still should be was place it was a lot of money I know I just just wanted to make sure that there I mean if they're and I also tell you there's other fiscal policies that we have that you're not going to see touched or hit until we get to like the 7,000 series under property because of how we've how our structure was versus the new structure that we're going into so just know that they're there as we keep going we're going to hit through all of them and then we're going to hit the ones that didn't have matchups and and other things too so uh just realize that we're we Lynn is keeping really close
134track of that she's keeping us on T okay well thank you yes so uh any other questions concerns objections to those uh policies moving forward to the next board meeting for recommendation and first read okay hearing none thank you for moving forward 46 policies um appreciate that um so does our Administration trying to stay on schedule as best as possible with a letter e or development process um we're still working through that but um we're on a we're trying to make up for some some lost time it looks like and we're getting there so yeah thank you for that um so then that brings us to the um really there's nothing under uh item three item four future future agenda planning uh when it comes to setting our particular uh schedule time uh for the
135next uh policy committee meeting um as was mentioned it's kind of difficult to set it right now but can we can we set something that's tentative I know it's or if it needs to be you know if if right and and whoever else need to confer like okay let's set a deadline as far as like okay next week we will come together as far as matching updates I mean I guess I just don't want to leave it open-ended because I've seen that happen and it doesn't work well so would it work well if um like what you're suggesting if I understand correctly that by the end of um next week this week this week that we have something well as soon as possible and no later than I we could what the 16th would be
136a week do you need a week or how much else I drafting an email to two chairs as I sit here okay to get their suggestion sry I don't do that okay I just know that please remember that we will have a shorter month next month too I appreciate that including ly in email the 18 yes it is so everything everything crunched again yeah um and therefore you know don't look to have almost 50 policies G come to you Ian you take out that you know basically two weeks de be the same way right December will be the same but at least December we already have hard well and I almost rather in in this instance uh you know lean a little bit towards what David said if we need to have a meeting in
137November to take on that Hot Topic type policy let's do that and we will have a longer Runway to December you'll have a large amount for your work but you'll also get it way ahead of time instead of feeling crunched stack it before policy and that way we have a hard style yeah what does H what does the committee feel about that course of action I mean just to take the the one particular topic um I'm fine with that considering I mean ultimately trying to jump to that meeting and make that decision but if all that meeting is is reviewing sv3 and B is static where it is unless we're going to make some still major changes to sv3 the the conclusion of that meeting is we're going to recommend both of them to the
138board for consider ation and adopt one so it I'm not saying it's going to be quick I'm just saying is that it should be fairly straightforward what's in front of us question do you need the meeting we we just said we wanted to bring it back to committee to take a look at it agree but do you need the meeting in November because the question is if you're going to review it if they're going to be you're going to know if there's going to be changes or not if you're going to send it out I would suggest sending it out ahead of time to the board members the board members review this and say look I I'm not comfortable with this or not uh and then you can cancel the November me because if you
139come to the November meeting and spend two hours going back and forth and say hey we need to go back do more work on it see can can we as push a a policy towards the board without actually meeting you can have a board of a whole for Direction but not a vote we can make a motion to buy uh to go bypass the traditional uh committee structure and approve policy I appreciate that Fred I Craig this is years to run but I even if it's only for 15 minutes I'd rather meet I'd rather meet I'd rather I'd rather meet I still think it would be a good idea to send it to the committee so that he can look at it no he's thinking it can be done without meeting I recognize DAV you're
140in the same mind as I am don't do don't have Mike's gonna have a fiscal meeting in 15 minutes we can figure out how to have a policy meeting in 15 so I missed I'm sorry I have a twoy ladder and I went to the restroom so why are we not setting a time today we we are we're going to try to set up a time by the end of next week at the absolute latest I think by the 16th by the 16th and want to give respect to other things that may be going on and other planning and things like that he want you're not looking at do like a 4:30 or five o'clock different time it would still be can I share just what what's not being said yes on the table there's
141like big picture stuff with operational referendum and other facilities planning stuff we're running out of dates and so I know that this work is really important important right but also is that kind of work and that kind of work is not getting scheduled because we're running out of dates and times and so I I just need to know how to start managing all of this work uh in in a meaningful way for you as a board to feel like you have runway for questions and topics I will tell you um a discussion of operational referendums coming to fiscal um this month a a draft of where we're going is going to be to the board in November and FIS and a resolution should you have should you want one will be drafted and passed in
142December so that that's a that's some work that I'm I'm taking a whole another subcommittee of of planning and working on and with so we do need and I'm seeking some balance you know to get run ragged here so I I don't think that's of our intentions to each other or no but I guess just a a rationale of where we I mean and and and along the lines of um the Neo devel policy development process my concern is that if we if we do just the one policy to take that on next month that that we may not have the same level of policy output you know if we had the two meetings with all of those particular policies in some you know by time by time December rolls around are we going to
143expect 50 policies there or are we going to expect um you know uh would we have 25 policy next in November and 25 policies in December you know those are the questions I just want to make sure that that I will promise you whatever I've promised you before which is I will our intent is to try to give them to you as early as possible um but also uh the administrators who are working on those as well as myself we're fitting them we're fitting that into our work product um and we have competing issues and other competing um we have one answer is wrong or right but I think that just changes skip November are you saying Craig if we skip November because that's kind of on the timeline what is are we G to
144be here for four hours in December is that kind of where you're I don't think we'll be here for four hours but you get what I'm saying then we've got double we we're really hoping to like knock some uh heavy hitting policies off of the discussion table and hopefully that you know that me that opens up like shorter meetings right but um yeah okay so we're still gonna try for so it sounds like we're going to try for November okay and um but with additional policies or with one policy I would say if they're there we'll we can look at them but if tin and I just briefly had a side meeting here and said the 11th and 12th are possible for both of us is one of them's HR and I don't know how
145long HR is going to go assuming it doesn't rarely go more than an hour you do it before you do it after you try to keep the whatever policy is to an hour Craig that answers the question y we can talk about yeah we can talk about transgender in five minutes we can talk about other NE policies you can't HR is got to start at 5:30 or we start at 6 we got to be out here by 8 I'm just saying the 11th and the 12th were the best days for me Tina had some gap or some possibilities on the 11th and 12th I don't know about be done by she has to be done by six I just sent the email out and one of the suggestions I have the emails that if you
146and Dian can keep the meetings to 90 minutes or less you could do them on the same night that's right and you could do them on the same night as planning and I would also is that by the way whatever is on that that that is scheduled for that month should keep that schedule I I don't see I don't see any challenge with trying to get that under 90 minutes tonight the discussion look like planning it's can be three hours don't take your I know right that's what I'm saying gotcha keep them both you're asking the wrong person I don't have planning anymore I give it feel like don't feel like planning would take three hours we have a big one tomorrow night because it's strategic plan but what I mean yeah yeah yeah um
147I'm fine with either I'm fine with doing it after the 6th I can do the 11th but on the 12th I would not be able to come before 5:30 and has leave at 6 right that's why 12 my practice starts out it's fine so you pair it with HR on the 11th or you pair it with planning on the 6th so I'm fine with either the time the start time being what four or I can't be here at I would start it after the planning meeting okay so we'll we'll come late in the 6th is possible okay early in the 6th is bad for me I don't know what you do know well I'm here planning oh that's right so atast I'm here I'm planning and I'm trying to go my head like what time
148you could do it' be seven or later on the 6th okay would you work would that work for you Craig the six after planning or is that good question i' like the idea of H I mean I know it's a long night for us that aren't both but I'm fine get would from what I see it would it should work uh so the six could work it could work yep well I tell you what I can also or the 11th or the 12th see what our agenda looks like for yeah I was gonna say di will give us a better idea tomorrow to what planning is going to look like next month so we'll go from there we're getting closer Dina penc it on the six so the six the six that's at after 7
149it be it would be 7 o'clock or after yeah okay so 6 o'clock after 7 on at 6 do that yeah that's time okay I'll put it on my calendar I I have a tentative on that date yeah I hold that tentatively yeah and then I think more even by after tomorrow kind of she should have kind of an idea what's GNA be un planning I appreciate the uh inist on trying to make a time work for everybody you're not supposed to be work for you she got hot in the back all right time is 7:41 meeting so they'll stop taking