LEHSD BoE Special Meeting - April 15th, 2025

001All right. Okay. Is everybody ready? This works good. Okay. This is to advise the general public that in compliance with the open public meetings act, the Lake Harbor Board of Education meeting was advertised in the Asbury Park Press, Atlantic City Press, and posted at the office of the board of education located at 307 Frog Pond Road, Little Lake Harbor, New Jersey, and posted at the office of the municipal clerk of Little Lake Harbor. Roll call, please. [Music] Mr. here. Mr. Fichello here. Mr. Lee here. Miss Lawrence here. Miss Martin here. Dr. Snder here. Miss Ber here. You have qual. Can we say the pledge of allegiance? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the stand and justice for all. Okay. Recommend a motion to approve the agenda. Can

002I have a motion? Motion. Second. Can I have a second? Are there any questions? All in favor? I I I Any abstensions? Any desenders? Motion passes. Now we'll begin the work session. I guess Dr. Antunes, can we begin with you? Did you want to give your presentation? Thank you. Good evening. So, most of this is similar. You've seen it before. Some of it is different. So, we'll go through some of it more quickly, but we can always go back. And then we'll also make sure that this gets on the website tomorrow. our committee remember what the school budget is priorities for our students but we do have to make decisions about with money in mind simple rules that are non-negotiables tax revenues must be within cap or cap plus allowances which we we're doing and

003revenues must equal expenses we want to keep in mind that expenses can and do change throughout the year but the revenues do not so if we have an increase in expenses we have to reduce revenue somewhere talked about the budget process. This I had this last time but what we added to this slide was the link at the bottom so that anybody could could click on it and you'll see that it's directly from the department of ed website. All of these I wanted we wanted to show that schools across the country and New Jersey are facing very similar budget crisis. This is a real thing. Like the struggle is real. And these are just some we get more and more every day. And so this is an example of what districts are facing throughout the

004state. I will tell you at my superintendent meetings, everybody is is just as frustrated as we are. It's it's it's not a great state to be in right now. Uh state meaning financial distress, not state New Jersey. [Music] some state aid cuts to South Jersey. It's been it's pretty clear 63 districts in southern New Jersey had their funding cut in 24 and 27 districts had them had their funding cut in [Music] 25. Oh, went too far. So, I wanted to share this about the time is now. The decision that must be made is not an easy one, especially for a group of people that don't always agree on the best course of action. This is okay. Disagreement is a-ok okay as long as the focus remains on what is best for students and the students

005of Little Lake Harbor School District. In if 30 years of education has taught me anything over and over and over again, it's that everyone every single person for the most part wants what's best for their children and the children of the school district. While what that looks like and how we get there may differ, the fact is that everyone wants best for the students. That's consistent. We all want what's best for students. Let's try to keep that in mind as we continue to discuss this budget. Students must remain at the forefront of the decisions made for our school district. As a board of education, you each individually read and acknowledge the code of ethics for board members, which is also part of the statute. Among the 10 tenants is one in part that speaks to

006making decisions in terms of the educational welfare of children and seeking to develop and maintain public schools that meet the individual needs of all children. As previously explained, the is the issue with which we are all dealing is not a two or three or 5year issue. It's a 10, 15 or 20 year issue that's come to its peak. Little Harbor along with many other school districts across the state are ready to fall off this fiscal cliff. There's no one person to blame here, and doing so or trying to do so does nothing to move us forward. We must not look to argue, but rather unravel the knot. We have something to learn here, not something to prove. Education is the epicenter of our world. And as monies and money's allocated for education ought not be

007going to property tax relief. As I heard someone say at a meeting on Friday, schools don't function on fairy dust. The time to act is now. The state is pushing back on communities, essentially shouting, "If you want a good school district, it's time to pay for it. Pay your local fair share. We're not going to fund you anymore." The fact is that the state often has unfunded mandates. So they make us do things but they don't fund it and they don't it doesn't matter to them at this point. They have spoken and continue to speak louder and louder. They're not going to fund local school boards anymore. This is why the board must act now in the best interest of our students. The state offered the tax levy incentive for a reason. It's our last

008chance to attempt to close the gap between the local fair share and the tax levy. School districts will not be given this chance again, barring any major unforeseen or catastrophic events. Keeping in mind, folks, that even with this 32.6% increase that is was approved as a tentative budget, we're that we're recommending we must still reduce support staff in addition to those positions that we haven't backfilled for this year. And I have a I have a slide on that. We're literally at bare bones. There's nothing new or innovative in this budget at all. If we really wanted to close that gap between the local fair share and tax levy, we would have to recommend a grossly unreasonable increase in taxes. I know that some may query whether we will be in a similar position next next

009school year. I just don't have an answer for you right now. I do know that increasing the tax levy by whatever amount by increasing the tax levy and beginning to close the 10 million $10 million gap is a step in the right direction. The state is not going to fund local school districts any longer. This is why the board must act now in the best interest of our students. [Music] Okay, as the superintendent said, we have up here what's called the district adequacy budget. And basically the state puts together a formula that says if you are funding your school district properly, this is the amount of money you should be spending to provide a thorough and efficient education to your students. And if you are doing so, you should be paying out of your own

010tax dollars something called local fair share. They have marked our local fair share at 24 million. Our actual share or our general fund tax levy is 14 million. So the district is about $10 million under where the state says they should be. Okay, these are just details about the resolution that was passed at the last meeting. We have the local tax levy of the current year. We use the enrollment adjustment, the tax levy incentive aid, the healthcare adjustment, and the bank cap adjustment. Now, it's important to point out in order to qualify for the tax levy incentive aid, the district must have used the maximum amount of its enrollment adjustment, healthcare adjustment, and bank cap adjustment. [Music] So this will close the gap, begin to close the gap between the local fair share and the

011tax levy. Okay. So these are just some figures of the increases on the average assessed home plus other homes from in the amount of 308,000 48,000. And that's on the assessed value, not on the fair market value. Okay, we applied last week. We sent in our application for the local uh tax levy incentive aid. We requested 3.1 million. Of that 3.1 million, the district is going to have to fund a little over 3 million and the state aid portion is going to be 151,000. It's basically a 95% to 5% split. and we'll know by April 28th if this is approved. And the word we got back from the uh state department of education here in Ocean County is that we have a very good and thorough application and she doesn't see why it wouldn't get

012approved or they don't see. I was muted. Um, could you tell me what the parts of that application were exactly? Uh, it's basically a list of all the things you want to apply for. So, that 3.1 million on ours is simply staffing decisions, nothing else. I was under the impression there was five parts that had to be submitted for the application. Can you give the specifics? Yeah. Okay. So, uh, one part was a copy of the resolution. Another part was a letter from the superintendent requesting the aid. The other was a worksheet uh that you fill in one blank that calculates these figures for you. Um the other sheet is um a list of all the things you want to request for. So our list was simply staffing. It just a list of positions. And

013the fifth uh item was um descriptions. Yeah. the descriptions of of things that we've done in the past um that we've reduced our budget to make it lean and some of the reasons why we need this money. I have a question on the last number. Is isn't that essentially also added to the tax base the 151,000? No. Oh, it's not. It's it's a little gift. That's that's Yeah, exactly. Okay. I thought it was there. little gift from the state. Okay. So, if if it gets approved, uh I believe that's going to be part of our state aid. Robert, I just have a quick question, too. Sure. Um last year we had stabilization aid, I believe, and it was it came after the budget. Um I think it was around 700,000 or so, and then we

014were able to bring back more staff members. That's off the table this year because of um the state allowing school boards to go higher than the 2% cap and put it on the local t taxpayers. Correct. That is correct. Okay. As of today. Okay. As of today. That could change. Okay. Yeah. I mean I I don't for Yeah. I don't we don't foresee that happening this year. Uh but yeah, that was exactly what that was last year. We don't foresee that happening this year. Thank you. Okay. So this this is a breakdown of how much money has been reduced from the state aid over the last four years. It's over $1.5 million. So that's the loss of revenue that we have coming into the district. And on the appropriation side, when you um when you

015uh figure in things like health insurance increases, staff increases, general liability insurance increases, uh contracted transportation increases, prevents a big uh challenge to balance your budget. So from 20 so approximately 26 staff members were lost and not replaced last year either due to riffs, non-renewals, retirements, attrition or resignations during the 2324 school year. This year alone from July 1 when I when I started roughly 10 staff positions were not replaced. So since July 2024 about 36 about 36 total staff members which is 29% approximately 29% of our total certificated staff certificated staff were not replaced. That's a huge number. The there's an anticipated loss of approximately five staff members for the 2526 school year at the 32% tax levy. Obviously that number is subject to change but I wanted to make sure that you had

016a a larger um view of what we were looking at in terms of staff cuts. So we have cuts quite the district has cut significantly or been reduced significantly not necessarily cuts because some of this is due to attrition and things like that from last July July 2024. Okay. Another area that we don't suspect that we're going to be funded at the same level we have been in the past is from federal funding. The district receives title one funds, title two funds, IDA, and IDA preschool. Um, IDEIDA is for special ed students. and the state informed us that we should only be budgeting at 75% of what we currently receive. Okay, just to be very fiscally conservative, this district budgeted at 70%. Okay, we're hoping we're hoping that that's not the case, that they cut

017this funding, but right now uh federal funding and things in Washington are very unpredictable. So, we just don't know where we're going to stand, but this is a major decrease for us if it comes to fruition as per the recommendation of the state department of education. Robert, can I ask a question? So, where do these funds um fall into in the revenue categories that you've shared with us thus far or they're not included? They don't they're not included. So, this is a this is what's called special revenue. It's a separate fund and the state and the federal government um funds this 100% and it's totally outside of our regular operating budget meaning that it has no bearing effect on the tax levy has no bearing effect on our general fund expenditures. But I guess where

018does it apply um functionally for the district? Are we planning on having these funds to cover certain expenses or are expenses that we have listed this would be I hate to say the word surplus in addition to funds that we have budgeted for like would we be able to yes this would be an addition this is over and above so in the event we do not receive these funds the services are covered in the budget figures that I that you share with me uh no not every service we we utilize is 100% of these funds. Um I don't suspect that we're going to lose 100% of the funding, but according to the state, we we were advised to only budgeted 75%. So hopefully we'll only lose 25%. But those services are not reflected in any

019of the budget figures that we've seen. No, no, that was my question a while ago. And I I was also told these funds do not get applied to salaries. So right well okay so they can get applied to salaries. One of the reasons we shy away from using salaries, specifically salaries of of employees who are in the teachers pension and annuity fund is because when you utilize teachers or certificated staff with federal funds, they the state makes us pay back 60 approximately 60% of that salary amount. So if you were to budget 100% $100,000 worth of salaries of certificated staff, the state simply says we're going to take back $60,000 of your money. That's not a prudent way to use the money. Not at all. In the past um they have you we have used

020ID I don't probably agree Robert IDA funds for um like child study team staff, secretarial staff in there like those salaries we had use them for staff and different things in that. So yes, I'm aware of that. That's why I asked the question, right? The staffing that was used was non-certificated staff so that we don't get we don't get penalized. So sorry. Um we qualify for like title one because we're a low income district. Correct. Cuz because we're low it's it's based off our free and reduced lunches. Yes. Right. Okay. And then that's why we meet. We have the committees for each building because of these funds, right? And then also like title two I've heard we've used in our curriculum committee meetings we use and it's because of our population. That's what why we

021qualify for these extra federal funds. No, that's correct. So just to clarify, most districts qualify for these funds. The amount of money you get allocated could be more or less. We get a pretty decent amount or we have had a pretty decent amount because of our percentage of students on free and reduced lunch. Thanks. And how does the disillusion of the federal department of education affect this and that's yet to yet to be seen. That's why that's why I said it's Washington right now is unpredictable now. We we just don't know. So, the best we can do is just go by the advice of the state, New Jersey State Department of Education. We're hoping for the best. Okay, so this is just a recap. Okay, so what has contributed to the 2526 budget over the

022last four years? We've had a loss of over $1.5 million in state aid. We've have uh a surging healthc care cost. Uh we had a presentation in February from our health benefit consultants and they informed us that the reason our healthc care is rising so much is because of our claims experience and that claims experience is based off of basically two prescriptions that's driving uh driving the the uh the increase and we don't have any choice uh to pay it. um were contractually obligated, but also our consultants did shop around for the best price for our healthcare program. And at the same time, we are also lower by using a private company. We are beating the state health benefit program. Okay. So, we are not uh we do still have a local fair share shortage.

023Okay. Uh transportation costs continue to rise. uh energy costs continue to rise. We are in a consortium for our energy costs. Uh so we buy basically in bulk with just under 400 other districts in the state. So we do reap the best rates, but we were advised that it's still going to be a 15% increase for energy costs this upcoming year. Now we have STA uh salary increases contract and that's contractual obligations. And then we also have general liability insurance cost that works the same way as the U health benefits. It's based off of our claims. Fortunately, we do have a good claims experience in our general liability insurance. So, that wasn't such a bad increase, but still an increase. I just have a question about the health costs increase. Again, these prescriptions, are they

024contractual with the union contract? Like how does that work? Are we able to renegotiate not covering these specific prescriptions if the people we're negotiating with agreed to it? Sure. And those people would be who? The the health payers, the providers, or would it be our our own? Thank you. I just needed to have that clear. Thank you. Yes. Yes. Um and then my question is where would the line item for general liability insurance cost to come up under for expenditures? uh that's spread out among about three or four different um line items. Uh part of that is student liability insurance. Uh part of that is the auto insurance and um part of it is workman's comp. So it's spread out of so on your list of expenditures where would that fall under it doesn't have

025a separate line item. It has three or it has about four different separate line items. I can get you that information. Okay. So it's the insurance workers comp compensation insurance under that one. Yes. It's all under one umbrella. Okay. I see. Now general liability insurance. Yeah. Robert, just real quick, you would say that most of these are out of our control as a district. What would we have more? Let's see. Uh the healthcare is out of our control. State aid loss is out of our control. The transportation costs are out of our control. The energy costs are out of our control. Salary increases are within our control uh through negotiations, but we've settled all our contracts, so they're already fixed. And the general liability insurance is also out of our control. The only thing we

026basically control is the local fair share. That would be the tax levy increase. Robert, I got a quick question. So based off the state incentive program that we were talking about, we are at 32.6%. That was roughly around 3 million out of the 11 million that we could have paid. Yes, that is correct. So So we were eligible, this district was eligible for over $11 million uh worth of tax levy incentive aid. Okay? And this district chose to only use 3.1 million of that opportunity. And the only thing that they're what the district is applying for is for staff and and specifically certificated staff, teaching staff, staff who work directly with students. And that's basically what our application was, the detail of it, just a list of all the certificated staff positions that we wanted

027to be able to keep. So we pretty much didn't max out. Absolutely not. We didn't even come close. Come close. Okay. Not even close. That's That's what I was wondering. Yes, the district was very fiscally prudent in only asking for what we needed as far as staffing. Okay. So, this is some information that's going to be posted on our website. This is regarding the senior tax freeze eligibility. Okay. uh residents who qualify based on age and um income can get a tax levy freeze on their homes. This will be on the website and if anybody needs any assistance with that, they can certainly call my office and I can try to um assist them with that. The town also offered assistance I think on Wednesdays. through sorry 1 to 3 is it 1 to 3

028on Wednesdays at the town municipal building they offered people help in filling out those applications yeah that started last week thank you I think it's going to go through May So, this was the same one that we had up uh last time. If if anybody is interested, I know that Laura on behalf of the board reached out and I know as a superintendent association, we're talking about doing the same. So, they haven't made a decision on that yet, but I know that that many people are reaching out, not just from Little Egg, across the Ocean County. Yeah, I haven't really gotten the results from the committee hearing. They had a couple of them. Um, but I think it did affect perhaps the amount of money they offered to us to to utilize, but that's really

029not the answer in my opinion from the state. We can talk about that in a few minutes. [Music] So, I'm going to ask Robert to pass out the information for our board to look at, which are several scenarios from the 32.6 um levy increase all the way down to 10 and how that affects uh the staffing and the tax levy. and he used three different uh scenarios, the 208, the 312, and the four home assessed 416. And that's just for board consumption obviously because there's information about tax cuts on here. So, this is for us to look at right now. What did I say? Staff cuts. So [Music] Please feel free to uh offer any questions, comments, thoughts. Yeah, you can go ahead. Did you give each sheet out? Okay. No, just just this one.

030Yeah, because I was wondering if you could discuss the expenditure sheet that I had requested and some of the differences from when we approved the 32.6 I have versus the sheet how that affects it. I have uh I have I have I have uh some other I have some other information here specifically on salaries. Uh I wasn't able to finish a uh the summary sheet that we usually get. I just ran out of time. But uh with this I was asked to put together uh different scenarios uh based on the different tax levies. So if you start at the top all the way to the left right now we are at 32.6%. And by the way uh forgot to mention our tenative budget was approved by the county office or the state state department of

031education. So as it stands we're in good shape. [Music] Okay. So, we've received uh approval for our tenative budget. Okay. So, I was asked to give different scenarios. So, I decided to give as many as possible. And you can choose from anyone you want. If you go down the left side, you start out at the top was where we're at right now with 32 32.6%. Then we drop down to 31% and then 1% all the way down to 10%. Second column just shows what the tax increase is for that particular percentage. The third line or the third column is just the incremental dollar increase. The fourth line is what would the total tax levy would be at each percentage. And then most importantly, this is the approximate staff reductions that would have to take place.

032So as you can see, as you as the tax levy increase goes down, the number of staff reductions goes up. May I have a a question, Robert? Sure. So the uh is it certificated or non? Do we know that like say for 25 26%. Uh at 25 and 26% that is uh that is some combination at 20. Yes. And the only one that's not total non-certificated is 32.6. Everything else is certificated and non-certificated. So we're looking at say 25%. We're looking at approximately approximately 13 certificated staff, 10 support staff. 10 support staff includes everybody who's not non student at what percent? 25. And 25 cuz that's not It says 12 to 13 total. Is that right? That's my impression. That's what I would have thought. [Music] Oh, right. Right. Okay. I apologize. Yes, it's not

033the plus. It's total. I apologize. I that I broke it down for me differently. I'm sorry. So, it is total. Okay. Thanks. [Music] So then according to this sheet, if we did what we did last year, which was 9.9 roughly 10, it would have been 30 to 32. That's correct. layoffs. That's correct. I I guess my concern, I'm just going to say it is that I want to be assured that based because some of her numbers have changed quite frequently with regards to salaries, what the percent increase was from last year to this year. transportation went from 22% now to 15% or not 15%. 15% you know um a lot of moving parts. Yes. And I want to make sure that those figures are accurate because to to asssure that we really do need to

034go to 32.6%. like because there's a huge difference than what I would expect [Music] um salary increases to be based on the negotiations. Do you have the sheet, Robert, for for everybody the summary? Yes. Yes, I do. If you could give that to everybody, please. I did request it, but I never received a further explanation. Well, I was confused when I saw just the salary amount and it came right from the sheet in Genesis. It was it was generated from Genesis if anybody wants to see that. I don't know if Robert has those for everybody. Okay. Um, and I've asked a lot about these numbers as well. And the 4.7 million is literally all staff and health benefits. That's what that number comprises. That is that correct, Robert? That is correct. Okay. So, so Lauren,

035that's where I I still need to see that salary. So, so salary and benefits is equaling 4.7, but I'm not really seeing I'm not seeing a cumulative number breakdown per staff group. Right? So, admin, teachers, power professionals, and what that cumulative increase was from last year to this year in regard to the contract negotiations as well as the steps in the guide. I just want to see how that all adds up to 4.7. Okay. Well, this is only salaries on on the Genesis form that he gave us. This doesn't include health benefits. So, the 4.7 on the sheets that we were given at the Thank you. April 1st meeting. I'm looking at my budget summary from the April 1st meeting and am I allowed to say the figures? Yeah. Okay. Um on the April 1st

036meeting, it says salaries are 18,000 18,244609. On this form here, the budget summary, it says 16,735. So that's where I'm confused. I approved I said that we should move forward with the 32.6 six based on that jump of 10% in salaries but here it doesn't appear to be 10%. So if it's not 10% then do we need to go to 32.6 6 like I need that clarified explicitly so that I am certain that this is really a justified increase. Okay. So that 4.7 is not a salary increase. The 4.7 million that we discussed that's not a salary increase. That's not the amount of salary increases between one year and the next. $4.7 million. It's not 4.7. I'm saying I'm I'm speaking about what other people were talking about. I'll we'll answer all all questions. Okay.

037So the 4.7 million represents how much staff were going to be cut if we were only at 2%. Okay. But since the board is going up to the 30 32.6%. And increasing the tax levy by 4.7 that closes that gap which means that we'd have virtually no staff layoffs. Right, Laura? So that 4.7 is with a two 2% tax increase, not 32.6. See the difference? So the the new number for just salaries without benefits I thought from the initial budget was 1.7 million. Okay. So as we Yeah. As we were changing the budget every seemed like every day. Okay. I took all the I only increased the and only adjusted the salary amount. I didn't adjust the health benefit amount. I could have allocated them better, but just in just in But health benefits are

038separate on this form. On what form? On this summary that you gave us for April 1st that we voted on the 326. So there's separate health benefits, right? So instead of allocating the two between each other, I just added it to the salary amount because when we increased the revenues, we increased the expenditures. Okay? And those expenditures are covering the salaries of the people. Now, I I'm going to get you I'm going to get you a summary sheet. I've been asking for one for weeks on this. And I'm going by this one here, and it says here that the salaries themselves increased 10.9% from last year to this year. I'll get you a new updated sheet, but I'll get you a new and updated sheet. Okay. Can you please not interrupt me? And can I

039finish? Thank you. I appreciate you being respectful. um the salaries here state and this is what I voted on the 32.6 for those especially Laura I know had real concerns with this and I am equally concerned about it and I'm it's one thing if it's extremely justified and you can show it to me on paper that it's valid but if it's not valid then we have to go back to the books and I'll be honest this has never happened before this didn't happen last year when you had to cut so many teachers it's 18 uh.2 2 million was a 10.9% increase just for salaries. Health benefits um were increased by 50. No, that's transportation. Increased by 13.6. Yeah, I forgot. So, health benefits. So, for me, I just I I'm the same I'm the same

040boat and um that's really why I abstained on at the first two meetings as you know. Um, so I have highlighted here on this sheet the four biggest impacts to the budget and I have them numbered. The first being energy 23% increase. The second being transportation with a 15.3% increase. The third being health benefits with a 13.6% increase. And then salaries at 10.3. Of course, combining salaries and health benefits together, you're looking at 24%. So that is the largest impact to the budget. just looking from last year to this year. So, I just have the same questions with the breakdown in the salary and I know Robert, you got me some information on Friday. So, I appreciate that and I started to go through that, but the numbers do seem a little bit different. So,

041I just need some clarification on why it went from 1.7 to approximately 600,000. Is PERS included or you know all those extra things? I'm not sure. Mhm. I'll get you. Give me the mic. I got Is it on? Okay. I'll get you an updated sheet. I It's unfortunately though, it's constantly here. And I just need to know too, do these salaries include those that are retiring at the end of the school year or have they been included in this salaries or have they not been have they been removed? because we have I believe seven retiring teachers which that was going to be my question too. I mean can you just describe the difference between the 18 million and the 16 five because when we when we were reducing the budget okay we took those salaries

042out then when we increased the budget I put it all into salaries I didn't allocate it between the salaries and the benefits the 18 to the 16 is that what happened? Yeah. So, I'll update that sheet and when you have that sheet, if you have any questions, I'll be glad to answer them. I didn't have a chance today. We went right down to the bell because I was trying to get this case I requested the information and I apparently received more information than I did. And for the budget, I think this is why we wanted a budget workshop is because the entire board wants this information. Forgive me if I'm speaking for anyone on the other side. We all want this information to make the best possible educated decision and we're not getting it. Well,

043I think you just said that this included retirees, the 18 million. Is that right, Robert? Yes. So then that would not justify going to 32% because that's what it was based on with these figures that we were shown on April 1st was the reason that we needed to go to 32.6%. Okay. So that is that still the case? So, I'm going to update the sheet and I'll give it to all the board and if you have any questions about it, you feel free to call me or text me or email me. And I still think this sheet is valid for us to go by that 4.7 million will close all the salary gaps, if you will, except for those non-certificated people. So, th these numbers are correct and these numbers are what we have to

044decide on. Yes, this is what the tax levy does for our school and what it doesn't do. So, the increase in the salary is not going to impact what the staff reductions look like and the percentages that we choose to raise taxes by cuz isn't isn't it isn't it all based on a balanced budget with the tax levy, right? So, like this initial sheet here is a balanced budget with 32.6%. From what I understand, that doesn't have federal monies, right? There's there's things missing from that. Okay. But it's supposed to not be included, I thought. So, I'm going to update that spreadsheet. And when you get that update, if you have questions, feel free to text me, email me, or call me. I ran out of time today. Okay. We were looking Okay. I just

045have another question if you can if bear with me. Sure. Or Aiden if Dr. Antinez can answer me. Um based on this with comparison between 2024 and 2025 it shows the revenues and the expenditures and these expenditures for salaries do not match this expenditures for salaries that you have on this sheet. If that is the case that would not okay require a 32.6 tax levy. Okay. So, I'm going to update that spreadsheet based on the Genesis budget that you have in front of you. And when I do, if you have any questions, feel free to call me, text me, or email me. I mean, can you look at what you shared to see? I I know what I shared with you previously, but things things are changing daily. Okay. So, is there a chance that

046we do not need to go to the 32.6 tax? No, there's 100% chance you need to go to the 32.6. 100% chance. Okay. So, I will update that spreadsheet and I will give the full board and if you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me. So, if you look at it this way, it's a $16 million $735,000 salary line. Right. Right. So, the salary line that we had to vote on for the 32.6 was $18.2 million. I got that. But the health but the health and the health benefits are down here. They're on a separate line item, right? And the health benefits should have a higher allocation to them. It does. And no, they don't. They don't reflect what the true health benefits are because So then why was it incorrect? Because

047because that spreadsheet really doesn't is not actually the actual budget. Okay? That spreadsheet is just a worksheet to show you where your money's being spent. All right? when I update I'll update the spreadsheet and I'll get you the spreadsheet and if you have any questions you can call me cuz the health benefits here went from 5.1 million to 5.8 million. Is that accurate? With staff cuts? Yes. [Music] With what staff cuts? The seven that retired? No. No. with all with the 47 or the 51 that we were going to have to cut if we rest. So why would we have it with no staff cuts at $18 million but keep a health benefits that reflected 40? I'm going to give you an updated spread. I'm asking you a question though. I'm asking why you would

048provide that to us to make an educated That's not an official budget document. I'm not saying it's official, but you asked us to vote on an initial budget and approve a 32.6 six tax levy was something that could have such a potential extraordinary error. That's not there are no errors in this. If you just told me that you did not include but this was discussed in committee and you even asked how much more could we get to if we if how much more we need staff. I did that. Yes. But I and we came up with that number and I gave you that number and everybody was in agreement that you wanted to go to the 32.6. So, you didn't have staff guns. I haven't had a chance to update the spreadsheet. Update the spreadsheet.

049Wait, Christine, it's hard because none of us have that spreadsheet in front of us. So, it's hard to keep referring to something. That's the issue also is why wasn't it shared with the entire board? I was instructed not to share it with the board. I shared it with the committee and that's not the spreadsheet that I asked you not to share. So, I will update the spreadsheet. I will provide it to the full board and if anybody has any questions they can call, email or text me. I think in Robert's experience as he's been giving things out, people just get more confused and have more questions. Yeah. There's been how this there's been a lot of detail shared. Okay. And you know, for someone who has put together a budget 15 times, Yeah. it could

050be very confusing. Yeah. Okay. So that's why I wanted to give you a spreadsheet and not a spreadsheet but an actual print out from our budget system, our accounting system that we use. Okay, that reflects the actual salaries. That's every single salary line that we have in the budget. And the total increase is $346,23. Correct. And that is net of the retirees and net of the people who were not backfilled throughout the year who resigned. Okay. I think it's tough for me because um we're we're voting on a tax levy. So it's it's two big things, right? You either vote to go to a really high tax levy or you cut a lot of our staff which will ultimately affect the students. And a a very wise woman who served on a school board for

051a very long time once told me that we are only as good as the information that we get. Right? We are only as good as the information that we get. And we have to vote yes or no. And it's so hard for me and I just expressed this to Lara because we're voted into these positions but we don't we're not in the dayto-day with Lisa and Robert. We're not supposed to be. So again, we're voting on these really big things for our district and we are only as good as the information that is provided to us. So I know you tell me not to apologize for all my questions, but that's the core and I'll never forget that sentiment because I have to vote for the best thing for the students, but I also have

052to keep in mind the taxpayers as well and and the amount of money and it has to be justified. That's all. And Abby, I would take that one step further. Not only the information provided, but explain to us in a way that we're not business administrators. Like I'm probably the farthest from understanding budgets. But what I'm thinking you're asking is we all know we have to raise taxes high in order not to lay off certificated staff, but we don't want to go higher than we need to. Exactly. And the burden of proof is on you to show us that that is warranted without a shadow of a doubt. We're talking millions of dollars here the likes of this town has never seen I have never seen and it's the responsibility is on you and I

053have I for me right now if it was today I would be abstaining once again because I do not have all of the information I voted last time to move the process forward um if that was the reasoning but I'm going to say this I there's been a poor display of communication regarding this budget whether it's just been they've been I don't want to say speculations but projections of what it could look like that put a lot of doubt in my mind and that it's going to really be hard for me to remove it unless there's certainty in these figures and that's not what I'm seeing right now. Okay. So tonight you're not being asked to vote on anything but that doesn't I'm aware of that. that comes in another two weeks and within that

054twoe period I will update that spreadsheet and if anybody has any questions they can call, text or email. I I would even if people were open to it mean have another open meeting until we're 100% sure of what I think it's best that everyone has all the information together because I think we can ask well I think that you know if I may say something um I think the 32.6 six was came about quite hastily as from what I understood I asked to have report on that meeting because I wasn't there and it was the decision was made in like 20 minutes and then two other members were texted do you support this amount and answer was yes so that was quite hastily again they come to the conclusion for somebody who really wanted the

055concrete numbers and I think I believe the numbers that I was given on the first on that sheet and now I'm being told that they were projections they were not correct No, I'll just say I have I have stayed twice, too. I said yes because I wanted to move it along. I was afraid of timeline and it was the initial budget, not the final budget. So, I'm like, if we're going to save staff, absolutely. That's most important. And and and I was abstaining and then feeling guilty because we weren't moving forward and getting worried about getting getting the application in. So, my thing was yes, Christine. Yes, I will vote yes to save as many staff as possible and just get that application sent in. So, that was my mindset. Okay, but we have I

056thought we were on a timeline. We needed to move forward with this process to get everybody up to date, you know, but we can always move down from that number and I think we have adequate information here. Um we're he this BA has given more information out than I think anybody in history in recent history to boards and they are difficult for they are difficult uh balance sheets to read and I've looked at a lot of them but to to parse and parcel them all apart and try to relate like for instance you didn't realize that PERS doesn't go along with TPA you know TPA only applies to certified you have to understand those things to know how they correlate And trust me, I've done a lot of research in the past few weeks, probably

057research that I shouldn't have to do to understand this budget. I think the same way that I explained it to my students if you understand it well and you know that you know it when you can explain it to someone else. And the only answer that I'm getting is those numbers are not correct. But you're telling me that if you change the numbers within that expenditure list that it's still going to add up to 4.7. They're basically outdated numbers because the budget has been changing literally every other day. Okay. And I just want to point out uh 15 days you talked about the timeline. The board did the right thing because we got that application in. Okay. We got it in on time. Well, well ahead of time and yeah, we got feedback from the

058state. It was a well put together application. I'm very confident and the uh county office uh representatives were very confident that we were going to receive full approval and that doesn't mean you can't change your minds and go backwards on it but you will qualify for that full application though and at this level you don't have to have any teaching staff reductions and I will get you the updated information and I just again if you would pull up the sheet and I know you're telling me it's outdated but it's from two weeks ago when we voted on this to apply for it. Just hear me out. Um, you're telling me that that deficit is still going to be 4.8 million um in the difference in expenditures when the salaries are only 16 or 16.7 million

059that the difference is not 10% in salaries. I can't no there's not going to be a deficit in this budget. Okay. There's not going to be a deficit and we are going to at this level we are going to be able to staff all educational staff as it was this year. Uh and we are netting that with the retirees. We're not back place we're not replacing some of the retirees and this year there were a few positions that we did not backfill when there was resignations. I think you mentioned to me vacation buyout and things like that that are included. So included so included in this in this I gave you I highlighted the last page but this is all the salaries that are in the budget. Every single salary line is in this worksheet.

060Okay that's that and this print out comes straight from our accounting software. Okay. And included in that is also things like vacation buyouts uh substitute pay overtime pay things of that nature. And if you think about every single salary in the district, the 4.7 million is just a portion of that 16 million, but that is all salaries. Robert, a quick question for you. Um, do you foresee any other drastic changes at this point? I mean, based off everything that you're looking at numbers wise. [Music] No, don't push it. Mike Mike is controlling our voices. Okay. All right. No, I don't foresee I mean I mean the only difference that that would change is based on the board changing their vote on the tax levy increase. That would be it. That would be it. That's the

061only thing that's going to change from here in. And you have every scenario from 32.6 down to 10. And you can make a decision based on what you see. Thank you. My only my other concern um is we're coming up on spring break. So I feel like there's a time crunch because right we have spring break and then our meeting is scheduled for the Tuesday upon return of spring break. Am I am I misspeaking? That's correct. Yeah. So I'm very concerned about I think that's also the sense of urgency on on some of this stuff. Okay. So, we have two weeks and like I said, I'll get you an updated spreadsheet. Okay. And um if you have any questions about it, you can ask me. Can can we have some information on what say some

062of these staff reductions would look like in the classroom? What class sizes would [Music] be? Yes, I can I can get that. We have some of that. Now, I'm hesitant to speak to that, but if we're going to [Music] approximately if we're looking [Music] at we can be I'd say at 13% 14% we're looking at at least 30 class sizes of 30 but at least not so much at the 25% rate. There will still be increased class sizes but it won't be as much probably maybe one there'll probably be one to two teachers less per grade level perhaps. Could we have some more specifics on that? Like what like last year we were provided like actual class sizes of what it would look like with different reductions. Sure. But honestly, yes, I can do that.

063I will not do that for every single one of these. It's just too much. I'm not going to do it for every single one of these. It's not necessary. But I will do it for some of them. And if you have I mean, because the last one that you came to us, you came to us at 25.6%. And then Laura, what percentage were we at when this tax levy incentive came? We were at 25, I believe. Who didn't know before that? four, but we just did the banked cap and the 9.9. 13. Yeah. Gosh. 13.9. Yeah. 13.96. Okay. So, maybe those two. 13.96 and 25. Yes. Quick question. Is there any restrictions on class sizes to begin with? I mean, state the state recommend a cut off point typically for kindergarten there is. And also

064for there's best practices. There are some it's not of course special ed has has a lot of lot of restrictions but our maximum what would a we know is that 24 23 kindergarten it's less than 25 I believe and preschool and then you have to add a parah or something like that. Yeah. I so there's best practices. There's not the state is not going to say you can only have this many kids in a classroom for the most part. Okay. Thank you. I think that well I know our fourth grade is very very large. It's our largest class and then I think that the specials would probably be if if we were to go to 25%. I'm I'm assuming that instead of taking classroom teachers it might impact specials, art, steam. So something to really

065think about there. Okay. I prepared something just so everybody knows where I stand for the benefit of the public and and this board. I just like to say that this board has been diligent, conscientious, and asking for information. Some members more than others. And I do believe we have enough at this time to make a decision. Mr. Green and Dr. and tunas have been providing copious reports and spreadsheets that up until now have had moving parts as some of this whole budget depends on state and federal monies being applied. The number this board is trying to make a decision about is a tax levy number for the next year's budget. After reviewing most of the material that has gone back and forth in committee via email, I have understood that the 4.7 million increase in

066our tax levy would go directly to salary and benefits. This preserves most of the current positions and all educator positions. But I question whether this is a wise decision as everything goes higher in the following year 2627 and we're not guaranteed that we can support every position in the future. Therefore, I would I think it would be better to go to a lower number to increase our tax base for the schools to yes increase our tax base while making moderate cuts to be able to sustain this budget in the future. I know this was a concern of the budget committee to look forward and make responsible decisions in that regard. Again, I want to stress that up until the last meeting, we did not have definitive numbers to work with, and there still are some

067unknowns, for example, federal grants. I have asked Mr. Green what it means in dollars to go down in our tax levy percentage from 32.6 to perhaps 25%. And I was told that each percentage point represents, as you see here on the sheet, $146,000. So if we were to decrease this number by 7.2% that would mean 115 1,15,00078. We can estimate from here how many positions this would translate into but I do not believe I do believe this is a more responsible number albeit high. I am hoping the state can figure out a more equitable distribution of funds as we submitted that letter for testimony to them and perhaps return some of the money they took over the last three years. But that's a big if and when. So lastly, I would urge this board as

068a whole to focus on the number over which we have control and decide on it for on April 30th because that is when we need to make a decision, a final decision. Our state application is in and as Mr. Marine said it's it was uh commended and we were told it was thorough and well done and comprised of all salary to justify higher more tax dollars. Please also remember that if board members are asking about many positions we are cutting. This is confidential information and it's unethical to discuss outside the boundaries of this board. It's my belief that this may be happening at times and consequently our CFO and superintendent are reluctant now to discuss too many specifics with the board committees. It's a matter of betraying trust which works both ways. I want to

069publicly thank Mr. Green and Dr. Antunes for all their patience and hard work in dealing with all the individual members of the board and our board as a whole. I hope we can gain a more trusting and healthy working relationship in the future. And again, I thank you, Mr. Green and Dr. Grant Tunis, for all you're doing for the students of the Lake Harvard. And that's basically what I have to say. So I I just Well, I understand we need to go. I'm sorry. Can I just say something in response? Um I have never asked regarding about cuts. I want to know what the gap is and the actual gap is and since February, I've not heard the actual gap. Well, I was I was at a meeting when you asked about cuts. We all

070asked about cuts, but but that's because we were provided that last year and I think we need to know because if we're going to make a decision about money, but to accuse me of I haven't mentioned discussed this budget with anyone. I didn't I didn't I didn't accuse you, but I'm just look at you. But I'm I'm you don't have to look at me. But um cuts that makes a decision that bases our decision. If we're cutting staff, teachers, and that's going to affect the students, that has to be a question in this dynamic. We can't make this decision without knowing what cuts are going to happen. Of course, but with all these numbers fluctuating and Dr. Antunis can make, you know, Also that with regards to class size, like that's in my decision-m process

071here. I need to know how it's going to affect class size. I didn't even think that specialists would be more affected because I'm out of the realm of specials in my life. But Alison would know with Jim, those are going to increase those class sizes even more. So that has to be part of the discussion. Again, all units that all offered a personnel committee which discusses those things. So, of course, that's going to be part of the dialogue. And there's still some things that have been thrown out there that haven't been addressed that I'm not going to ask publicly because I don't want it to be questioned that it's not appropriate to ask. [Music] But again, I just don't feel the whole board has a and I could be wrong. you guys get a a

072full grasp on this budget and where we are and how it's going to affect the students and the staff if we were to go to 25%. Because as you said, you didn't want it to tell us how many cuts that actually is. But I mean, these numbers differ from the numbers I saw in the April 1st meeting. So, I don't know what's valid. I need to know what's valid and accurate in order to make an informed decision. And I do not believe that I have been given that by and I'm a chair on the the budget committee. So that's actually even more frustrating. Well, I do believe we've have ample time to figure that out, but the number was not definitive until you voted yes on a number. So, how could really she she would

073be guessing, Dr. Antuna, to give you a a staff number. Am I not correct? If but the expenditures we based our decision on 32.6 six based on the fact that the expenditures and the salaries in that sheet that Mr. Green gave us was somewhat accurate and apparently now it's not [Music] accurate by a difference of $2 million. Is that what you're saying? So he explained Yeah, he explained that difference. I I mean I mean I agree that that's again I I understand things change but for me the um the salaries seem like a fixed a fixed thing. So I know you're going to update that and get that to us. I think it's just been I think I've been saying that that I need to see the salary breakdown for a long for a long

074time. I do think Laura though that um I would hope that no one on the board here thinks they would be involved in deciding who the staff cuts are. So, I hope there was no discussion of that because we're not involved in that whatsoever. Um, but that's that seemed like what you were alluding to, but I I don't think that hopefully no one would think that that's our job. No, no. I think the the idea was not to put out 10 certified and some uncertified because it's easy to figure that out. Who's lowest on the totem pole? Dr. Antunes really didn't want that to get out to the public. Okay, understood. So we had 26 cuts last year, correct? 20 26 roughly staff with with riffs, attrition, retirements, all that stuff. Okay. And there was

075no back fill in a lot of the positions in those positions. I don't I wasn't here. So maybe we hired I and I don't maybe special ed if we needed a special ed teacher. There were I would say or Paris. Yes. It was 36 by the way with attrition. 36. So it was 26 last year and like almost seven this year. So that's approximately 36 since July 1, 2024. I mean at this point with the state incentive, how I'm looking at it at that number, it looks like we're do we're in a better position for staff here in this place. And with that being said, I feel like that's going to be a better education for the children because there's been a already been a rough cut last year. This has been a big cut

076and to me I I feel comfortable even as a taxpayer to go higher because I know the teachers are the backbone of the school and they're going to give that education to these kids as a foundation. You also have to remember though that with those cuts, we were overstaffed at one point. Um, and that was that was said by our previous superintendent that there needed to be cuts. I I get that, but at the same time, how far can we go with the cuts? That's and I feel like the state moving forward is not going to be giving the kind of money that they have given already. So, we're going to have to start focusing on within our town and we need to start there. It's it's a starting point in my opinion because but

077but the cuts as far as they go I I understand we have to make cuts but I just feel in my gut in my heart the education level is going to be lower. Well there is nothing innovative nothing new as as Robert indicated this is only instructional staff. There's still some non-instructional staff being the the organization is is is crumbling. So, so it is happening and there's nothing new. There's I get it. So, yes, what you said is and what I'm trying to say is if I'm not trying to focus on children here, I I and as a taxpayer, this is their foundation. This is the ground they start on, right? So, they move forward in life from here. So, they deserve to have what they can get. the best that we can give them

078as a board to vote for the best for the school. And you're right, John, we took such a we took such a hit last year. Such a hit. I mean, 26 staff members and now almost 36 with the retirees not replacing them. Yes. Now the taxpayers have to take a pretty big hit, but the tax base, right, will be better next year. Correct. So, our tax base will be higher, which means we'll be at a better point next year and hopefully things will get better. That's what I'm hoping for. Yeah, that's why. My concern is though, is it a bandaid? And are we guaranteed that we won't meet staff cuts next year with everything going up, namely salaries. So I would never I would never pretend to guarantee anything with the way the the tumultuous

079environment of the state and the country. And see that's why I think we also need to dig deeper into salaries is to know what the salary increases will be projected for 2627 so we can see where that falls within the budget along with um we only have the 2% tax levy cap. Are we enable to have um we used our bank cap? Correct. So we won't have that. And whether or not we'll have the enrollment aid I don't I'm sure I'm using the wrong terminology. and the um health benefits and whether or not that will accomplish it, but but we're not sure. But we could look at those numbers so that we have a jump on it for next year. We could and not going not going into it blindly. We have to pass this

080budget first. You say you want to look at 26 27. I'm saying that obtaining what the salary increases will be for those groups. Mhm. should not be that difficult to have that number before we vote on this. I do not think it's a difficult thing to because the um I think this is the number from the guide, isn't it, Robert? The 16 million. Would that be the increase? That's your payroll number. You just have to push it. That's correct. [Music] We leave our buttons on and then just pick it up. Am I good to go? No. Do you want mine? Am I good to go? No. Okay. So, this is with the guide increases. You have it. This is from Genesis. I I would assume this is the current figure, right? Which is what I

081mean. I we should be able to grasp that for next year. So, this way we have a handle on something as Abby said should be a fixed increase. We should know at least one starting point out of the gate. Yeah, we can't predict transportation. We can't predict energy, but salaries we seem to know, right? Because it's a fixed contract now and it's a guide, the steps on the guide. So that's been my question and that's the biggest part of the expenditures. So that's what we need to see. And they're all here. Yeah, they're all here on this Genesis sheet. Yes, but our question balanced budget, which Robert's going to update because we went from 18.2 2 to now 16.7. Um, so the increase dropped to 3 350,000 versus 1.7 million, but I'm going to um

082guess that the seven retirees are probably in that number with their payout possibly, which is probably what the discrepancy is. That's what I'm thinking. There's always an answer. [Music] I've gotten every answer I asked, but I sometimes it takes going into the office and actually talking with Robert. Unfortunately, not everyone is. I I love that you're retired, but not everyone has that ability. And I think if we email a request and are assured by Dr. Antinis that we'll get a response that we hope that we do. Sometimes just a worksheet is a lot to come because I as I understand that these worksheets aren't software generated. They have to be manually put together. So, as a content area expert, it should not be as difficult as it is to get the answers since February. This

083is what everybody looking for and we got this now. This is what everybody was looking for. [Music] It's that's not what I was I I did this. This is not enough. I was I showed what I was looking for from [Music] um Patty Blood provided us last year. Yeah. But you're not allowed to ask for just specific things on your own as a board member. You know, just do this work. I love the budget committee. It's not a question. I know. Okay. Then then it'll affect my vote. That's really affect that's not the case. The New Jersey School Board Association says that everyone should have equal access to the BA during budget season to have their answers their questions answered. That was that is what New Jersey School Board Association says. You're telling me otherwise

084that I'm not entitled to that. No, you're just not entitled to say how the worksheet has to be put together like you you asked. But if I'm getting worksheet, that's not reasonable. Actually, Laura, I think it is reasonable because if somebody learns in a different way or needs to make information way to make a decision that they're comfortable with. Like what I don't understand is first of all, a lot of us bring different talents. Laura, when you when we did the health and be stuff a few years ago, you were phenomenal in the policy. You did all your homework. You looked at other school districts and I feel that Abby and Christine are excellent question askers. I think they know how to ask questions. I think they dig deeper and I trust when they are

085not getting the information that they need that Robert's doing the best he can, but maybe Christine is not understanding what's coming through so she keeps asking questions. And I think this is so important that we have to get to a point where every single board member is 100% sure in the information. They may not agree on the vote at the end of the day. He may say, "Well, that's too high of a tax increase for me. I'm not voting for it." But until each board member gets the information in a way that they can understand it, then we need to keep digging deeper. Well, I as a president, I did reach out to Christine and said, "Show me a couple of numbers that you're talking about. What's the discrepancy? Show text it to me. Show

086me." And she didn't take that opportunity to show me. I Well, there's a discrepancy right here in the initial budget that we approved at 32.6%. The salary number is 18.2, which I just said, and this number is 16.7. And I know Robert, you're going to update. Okay. So, I'm going to update that and that's a big discrepancy because that's what we voted on. That's the reason I'm going to update the spreadsheet provided to all the board members. And at that time, if you have questions, feel free to call, text, or email me. I mean, does anyone else feel that we need a special meeting to discuss it or wants to see this information? Because if I request it, I'm the only one to receive it. It it seems because even though Abby and I asked

087the same questions, but Abby received a response and I did not. I'm going to update the spreadsheet, provide it to all the board members, and if you have any questions, feel free to call, text, or email me. Robert, that sounds good. Robert, can I just say something? Uh, first, we got that you're going to email it and update us and text us and everything, but I would be comfortable if we have another meeting so that everybody is 100% sure that they are voting the way they are. So, that would be my vote to have another meeting. We're all busy, but this is important enough to make sure that all of our members are have the information that they want and need. I think the schools are closed next week. Is that right? So, we can't

088have administration coming in on days that they're off. Thursday, the only need is 48 hours, right? So, you're going to have the information long before the meeting. And when you look at it, if you don't understand it, you can feel to give me a call. You can come and sit down with me. We can I know you've always been supposed to be off. He's supposed to be off next week is my point. Chris is saying have to be this Thursday and it's my understanding that this has to be approved by May 14th. Correct. May 14th is when it has to be to the county office. So does that mean that we could have a discussion on this on the 30th and addition of 29th? And I get confused between Pine Lance and No, Pineland is

08929th. We're we're the 30th. Yes. No, we're on the 29th. Okay. No, Monday. I get the 29th 6:00. Tuesday the 29th. Yes. Monday is the 28th. Tuesday is the 29th. Oh, okay. Sorry. So, my question, we could do it this, you know, and have the actual vote on the 30 on the May 1st. That's a possibility. So this way if if that's something you is that what you're I just want to make sure everybody has the information they need and they can make a decision confidently in the numbers and not regret saying well I didn't have all the information and I abstained cuz that should be we shouldn't have that as an excuse. It's either a yes or a no. I have the information and that's on voting. I agree with that. I don't think

090we need another meeting. What does everybody else think? I mean, as long as the the the information Robert's going to email to everybody, I'm fine with that information if he's going to give everybody what they want. When can we uh expect that updated spreadsheet? I'm going to try for tomorrow. Okay. Can't I can't make any promises because I, you know, it's it's it's very detailed, but I'll I'll shoot for tomorrow. and every number it'll be able to break. But unlike spreadsheets in the past, every number on this one will be dead on accurate exactly to 32. I'll provide I'll provide a backup documentation for every number that's on that spreadsheet. Okay. Every single month. I have to say everything I've asked for so far when I sat with you, you explained it to me up

091to my, you know, to the standards of where I got it. I'm not a financial guy in any way, but when you grow things down for me, when I ask certain questions on stuff, I got that information. But I understand that there are I may not see everything and I like to see it how everybody else sees it. So, you know, when you email everybody that information, we could all look it over and we can see what we're looking at, see if there's any discrepancies between the board. Agreed. Anybody else? That's fine for me. I'll just come in for three hours and try and understand on my own time if you're there. Hopefully they'll there'll be no more questions after that. Anybody who wants to make I will make myself available to anybody over the

092break. I do, but I I I'm perfectly okay with coming in to for anybody who wants to sit down and has any questions, want to go face to face, cuz it seems, just like you said, it seems that when people come and talk face to face and they ask the specific questions, they understand it. So, anytime anybody wants to meet, I don't think that's necessary. I think we should get our answers by Thursday or Friday. And yeah, I'll make myself available. Okay. Okay. If if anybody does anybody have any more questions before we open it up to public [Music] comment floor is now open to members of the public. The board of education recognizes the value of public comment on educational issues. The board requests that each statement made by a participant is limited to

0933 minutes as cited in policy 0167. There is a signin sheet located on the podium. Please sign in before you speak. Thank you. [Music] Good evening. Um, my name is Dennis O'Keefe. I reside at 108 San Piper Lane in Parkertown. Um, I'm 20 years in the private sector as a uh an engineer and a home builder and I'm 20 16 years in education. I work with John Musk up at Central Regional High School. Absolutely love my life being a teacher. I have three children who are now young adults. One in college, two in the workforce. One's a corrections officer, one's an aeronautical engineer. And um public education has been essential to my family. Um but being fiscally responsible as a household, being the the primary um financial person in the home, it's been essential to

094the family to budget in these troubled times where we have a family of five and I have two elderly people living with us, a family of seven in Little Harbor. Um our taxes are very high in the home that we purchased here 2 and 1/2 years ago. Um, however, I do understand the need to increase the budget. Uh, but I I understood what Miss Snyder said in terms of uh um trying to confirm with Mr. Green whether or not there's additional funding that might come in through Title One or IDA that could offset the potential tax levy. That's a question that looms in my mind. But I also understand uh with uh Miss uh with uh the president, Miss Her um I understand um also I I respect the idea to increase the budget, but

095I also can't get off the idea of trying to sustain any impact to the taxpayers. And this is coming from a teacher first point of view. I would want nothing more as a resident in this town to sustain the staffing levels, the certificated staffing levels as you said last May. boots on the ground in the classroom that are impacting students. Um, but I also appreciate the idea of I think Mr. Green, you handed out a document that has multiple scenarios with minimal impact to the taxpayer and a greater impact to the taxpayer. So, as a concerned resident of Little Egg, but as a um a protector and um the lion of I I want to protect teachers. I'm a former uh vice principal after four years in high school and um I'm secondary educator uh

096and my wife's a par professional at Field Intermediate. So we get everything that's going on in this world support staff and certificated otherwise. But I can't get off the idea of having a 32 33% tax levy imposed on a taxpayer when um if there if there's any possibility where we could potentially minimize the increase going through a very turbulent year as everyone here agrees at both the federal and state levels. Is there the possibility that this is a blip and federal funding will normalize and you won't need to budget 70% when you've been told to budget 75%. Who knows, maybe next year you could budget 100%. Do we need to take on a 32% increase right now? Do we need to do that? And can we step back before the mandatory timeline and just take

097I ask the board it's a plea to the board to to minimize the increase minimize the increase but sustain staffing levels please for the teachers in the room. Thank you. [Music] Good evening. My name is Tom Meredith. I'm retired. I worked in the public sector most of my life. Um, we retired down here 10 years ago. I've tried to keep an eye on education is kind of embred in my family. And having raised three kids through the special ed system in Scotch Plains, New Jersey, and having a wonderful experience, I try to just stay up with that and make sure that those kids are being served. First, I want to note you guys have a hugely difficult job to do and we appreciate all your efforts. Okay? All this talk we just witnessed about, oh,

098I have to come in on my time off. Oh, vacation. Oh, this, oh that, oh me, oh my. Okay, a lot of you, the elected folks, probably have other jobs. This isn't a bank job for you. Okay, we're all taxpayers, so this hits us all. Many of you have children in the school, so it hits you there as well. But if your business has a problem of this magnitude, it's all hands on deck and you get your butt in the office and solve the problem. And I think maybe just a little bit more of that kind of attitude from each and every one of you might go a little further. Certainly, it would be better PR. Secondly, I want to talk about the last meeting where I came and spoke at this microphone. And that

099was the meeting where this group, I'm sure different members, but this group decided to dissolve shared services, decided to dissolve other money-saving events, knowing full well what it would cost. And I know you knew it full well because I stood up and had the numbers and I gave them to you. So I know you were aware at least at that moment. What did you think was going to be the result a year, two years, three years down the road? Did you lose any of this state funding over curriculum disagreements? Did you have any staffing problems caused by that disillusion of shared services? Okay. There was a a push about two years ago to talk about regionalization. Role Lake Harbor Board of Education absolutely flatly refused to consider it. How can you look at me and

100tell me that these decisions are in the best interests of the students? My daughter is a school teacher. My sister was a school teacher. My father was a school superintendent. They've all said when people in a board setting get wrapped up in an idea, the student goes right out the window. it becomes politicized. This board hated a previous superintendent so badly they put the students needs aside to move that person out of the role. And on top of that, Isa. Yes, sir. Please. Okay. On top of that, I think it's shameful for you to blame the insurance cost overruns on two people or one person who is probably morbidly ill and point the finger at that. There's a lot of blame game tonight. This isn't It's not in our control. It's all under your control.

101Well said. Love [Music] it. Michelle Mleski, 926 Nent Town Road. My comment is I agree with you. My comment is that how is it that you look at all of the other schools in Ocean County and they're not looking at a 32% increase. They're not they're not looking at a 32% increase. The most 12.5 I think KOR when I looked it up and the way the bickering and the arguing tonight I mean we're we're spending how much money on a lawyer. It's no wonder we have so much money going out the window. So I really think you guys really need to like get your act together and figure it out. But I agree with this sir. Weaver really should have regionalized our schools and really benefit the students as a whole, not as a pissing

102match all the time. [Music] What's [Music] I'm going to get it right this time. Elizabeth Basque, 15 other way Barget. I am a teacher in Little Lake Harbor School District. And if my voice sounds shake, it's because I'm nervous. I was not planning on speaking tonight, but I still have questions. Um, I've been here for 20 years and in this district every single year, our superintendent and business administrator put together a presentation of what is going to be included, what programs are included, what we're getting, what we're keeping. Are we keeping certain programs? Are we losing certain programs? Are we keeping certain staff? Are we cutting down on one specific teacher? and it is frowned upon and it does get feedback and it is an uncomfortable conversation but it is also part of the role

103and the leadership. I finished my leadership school and we have to remember as leaders that we're still teaching other kinds of learners and if there are different kinds of learners on this board, if Laura learns differently than Christine, then so be it. Teach them, educate them. You are the leaders. You're the classroom teacher. You have to meet their learning styles and what they need to keep us in the classroom. That's the goal. And I'm sorry, but if I hear one more thing about our salaries and our health benefits, think about our working conditions. Think about the buckets in our building. It's literally draining brown water in our building. And no one in any of this conversation has talked about our facilities. And that is something that fascinates me. No one's talking about facilities. You guys

104all negotiated a budget. Robert was here negotiating our budget, planning for our salaries, which by the way is not that big of an increase when you cut down all those people we lost through attrition. It's I don't want to get myself in trouble. I don't want to say too many things, but I don't have a lot of faith in the fact of the accuracy of numbers based on the amount of payroll errors our association has been through this year. We have had more struggles and questions and mistakes that have to be fixed. I'm sorry. I but we're going to hire another secretary in the same meeting that we're talking about cutting our budget and cutting teachers. I [Music] don't I am very passionate about this district and I don't I love it here. These are

105our kids, our staff, our building, our facilities. And I work in a classroom where I have a heater, an air conditioner, and a dehumidifier, and an air purifier with no windows. And I'm not going anywhere. I'm not. You're stuck with me. Unless, you [Music] know, [Music] Excellent. I'm Chrissy Cummings. I'm the principal of the George Mitchell Elementary School. I've been a lifelong resident of Little Lake Harbor and I've been employed by the district for 33 years. George Mitchell School has lost 19 staff members since 2023 and is projected to lose three more staff members due to retirements for a total of 22 staff members. I am concerned about class sizes, but more importantly, I cannot say that I can run this school safely if I lose any more staff. As the principal of the George

106Mitchell School and a Little Lake Carver taxpayer, I implore you to improve the 32.6% 6% tax increase to preserve our school district and to provide a safe, thorough, and efficient education to our students. [Music] Good evening everybody, ladies and gentlemen of the board. Madam President, my name is Matt Alleski, 926 Newent Town Road. I'm speaking to you as a resident. and I'm also the supervisor of the uh performing arts department at finance high school. I'm also a lifelong educator and uh and a former board me member on the Lily Harbor board. I'm listening this evening to the debate taking place and you guys are uh splitting hairs over the numbers, but the fact of the matter is the answer staring you right in the face. As Cummings pointed out, 32.6 is your only option. The

107problem is is that you forced the taxpayers to accept an exceptionally high number. I'm listening to you talk about maybe dropping it to 25. That's still way higher than what anybody else is doing. I've heard talk about class sizes of 30. That is acceptable. Dr. Snyder, they pointed out something about specials. I don't think they're talking about increasing the size of specials classes. They're most likely talking about eliminating them completely. You can't afford to lose any positions out of this district. You made 36 cuts last year. You don't have any more fat to trim. You're basically imposing a 32.6% increase on the taxpayers more or less to keep your doors open. That's unacceptable. And that's the question that needs to be answered. That's the real problem that needs to be solved because where will we

108be next year? That's all I have to say. Thank you. That in the same [Music] spot around [Music] Hi, my name is Christina Bore. I'm here as a teacher. For 25 years I've been in this district, I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. My question is, if we get the 32% and get all the money that we're asking for, are we still not replacing the seven retirees? Are we still also getting rid of support staff? [Music] Good evening. Um, my name is Suzanne Quick, uh, 404 Kadobec Way in Little Lake Harbor. Uh, I'm retired. Uh, I have no background in education. I was sitting here listening to everybody. I kind of felt kind of small because you guys seem so much more knowledgeable than I am. But I am a grandma and my

109two granddaughters uh attend Little Lake Harbor Schools and have done since they were in preschool. And I can't say enough about the teachers and the staff in these schools. Um, it's like a second home for my granddaughters. All the teachers and staff have always, I feel, done their above and beyond for the children in their charge. And I know that nobody likes tax increases. I'm a senior citizen on a fixed income. I understand nobody wants their puck brain taxes to go up, but these children are our future and they deserve the best education that they can get. And if that means taxes have to go up, then I'm sorry. I, you know, I feel for people that have moved down here and they're retired. I understand finances are difficult, but we have to think about

110the future of our schools and supporting our teachers and staff and having enough teachers and staff to make sure that our kids get the best education that they can possibly get. Thank [Music] you. [Music] Would anyone else like to speak? [Music] Sorry. Okay, I'm just going to hold it. Um, Karen Strang, I am a teacher here. I've been teaching here for over 20 years. Like I said before, love my job, love my staff. Um, I really do have a concern. I know like you've kind of been skating around this 32%. I get it. But with that 32%, are we still not rehiring or filling our retirements? That's seven teachers. That's ultimately one per grade level. That's huge. That will have a big impact on all of us. And I think we have a right to

111know that. And I know you kind of like skated a little bit like support staff. Well, we need our support staff. Every support staff person that we have in our building is crucial and they work directly with our students. So, I'm asking when will we know this? And I do feel that the board should have the right to know that you're going to possibly approve something that we are still technically we're not cutting staff, but we're not replacing it. So, aren't we cutting staff? I I mean I'm not not really I I don't know. I just I have some serious concerns and I have come to every one of these meetings and I'd like to think that I am fairly intelligent. I am a teacher. I do have my masters and I am more confused

112every time I come. But every time I come I so I don't know why I just can't see it. I I I mean it's confusing. So, whatever you do create, if it could be just more user friendly or friendly for everybody else that's out here that doesn't do your job for a living, I have looked and looked and I do and we talk every day, me and my colleagues, and we discuss it and the one that has the most on it is really uh Mrs. Basque. I'm not sure why. She's our head math coach, but she does and she guides us. But we shouldn't have to do that. It we shouldn't have to search for information. And I would really like to know about the seven [Music] teachers. Would anyone else like to speak? Okay,

113seeing none, I'll close public session. Am I allowed to address something? Do you mind? No, that's fine. or board forum so we can answer to our the best of our ability. Okay. Um just some things that I heard that I would just like to to speak upon. Uh we weren't talking about individuals with um health care and health benefits. That was directed at two drugs that are apparently are driving up the health care. And this is I'm just making a statement. It's not an opinion. Um yes, it was whether it's yeah the GLP inhibitors um that are um eligible to individuals who need them apparently I guess they're very costly and that's what's driving up the cost so it's not to individuals it's a drug that um and I don't know if we had that

114available for anyone the booklet that we received if that's public resource from the presentation from the healthcare provider I don't know if we could provide that okay so I don't know if there's digital version. Well, it was live on YouTube and if you come to our meetings, you can go back to YouTube and hear the whole presentation about healthcare and the two specific drugs around weight loss and there are different ways you can contract this because I know from the township that that's not covered. So, just wanted to comment on the weight loss highost drug that has increased our health benefits by 20%. And then uh with regards to kport, keyport is actually in Mammoth County. in Ocean County and um there have been some school district sorry this is not a time for a

115public argument back and forth so um a lot of other districts in Ocean County have done things such as sell buildings close schools sell land that ability um so they have taken extreme measures their extreme measures do not look the same as ours but they are still nevertheless extreme and then just my Last thing that I have to note here with regards to shared services and I have a spreadsheet from when we were looking at it. Um my numbers roughly are $220,000 in savings. That is nowhere near and near the budget gap shortfall that we are seeing here. Um we have a 23% special ed student population which is higher than the state average which about 18%. Um, and we did not refill. We had when we had shared services, what did we have? We

116had assistant BA. We had an assistant superintendent. We had a special uh education supervisor. Those are all administrative positions that we no longer hold. So, I just wanted the full context of everything. So, um, with that and you can come come back to me at the end. Okay. I'd also like to add to that that with the uh regionalization study, Howard, a previous board member and myself sat through that whole presentation and the cost savings was around the same amount, 200,000. It was really a small amount. And I want to say we did inquire and we've never heard any other follow-up feedback because there was I requested more information, but that would require an additional study and it just kind of it went dead in the water. We no longer heard anything else from it.

117The other district didn't support it. I don't I don't believe. And just to add, regionalization is not something that this board would vote on. Regionalization is something that the town votes on. It's not a school board decision. Am I wrong? I think the I thought we vote on it to put it to the to the vote of the the town. There's mine multiple steps multiple levels in terms of getting other districts to approve, getting state approval and you know your your constituent um voters to as well. So it's not just something that this board can say we're regionalizing tomorrow. No, there's many many more steps. Uh, one of the most difficult would be the the state approval process, which is something you have more control. And I'll just say, um, in regard to shared services,

118that was before my time, but I do remember coming on and learning about how the shared services weren't equal in some cases where staff was maybe spending more time in a certain district. And I think with shared services, it can only really really work if it's the right leader at the helm and the right resources are allocated to the right populations, right? If you have a higher need in one district versus another, you need to allocate resources appropriately. And that wasn't happening. Um, and then I'll say, I appreciate the comments from the community. We don't often have community members or folks outside of staff here. So, it's great to hear from you, but I think I was in the bathroom and someone may have mentioned getting butts into an office. So, I I wish I

119had an office, but I don't. Um, and then I think there was mentioned that that this board doesn't have a focus on students. That is the number one focus. My children are students here. I I'm doing this for my kids and their peers and the students of Little Lake Harbor. So, the fact that someone even had the nerve to stand up and question if students are at the forefront of our decisions is sickening to me and I had to comment on that. Um, Mrs. Bisqueke, I love that you get up and I love all of your comments and I love how closely closely you are paying attention to the details of this budget. The only reason we keep bringing up salaries is because they're the biggest part of the pie. They're the biggest expenditure. It's

120not because we want to cut salaries or, you know, we want to we want to take away from teachers because you're overworked. I was born and raised by a teacher. Teachers are often very underpaid. It's not about that. It's just learning the increase from last year to this year and seeing the breakdown of the numbers. That's all. We just want to see those details. Um, Mr. Mleski, 32.6%. I agree with many of the things you said. I agree that it's about the students and I agree that it's unacceptable. This didn't happen overnight. This is mismanagement of a budget for many years prior to any of us being here. Think about that. And Mrs. Quick, thank you for your comments. I know your daughters, my kids go to school with them, and you your words touch

121me so much. So, thank you for standing up here and saying what you said. That's it. [Music] Laura, can I just end my end of the night comments and then I'll uh and I just um wanted to say along with not thinking about the children, I think that's why we go back to how many kids will be in a classroom, how many teachers will be cut because, and I think Chris will remember this cuz he brings it up often. We interviewed a candidate um at one point and I think it stuck with us. What's the line? What if a child is sitting right there in front of you? But what decision would you make? And I think we bring ourselves back to that point and put ourselves in that um realm to think about how

122it will affect the children and the teachers. And again, it's not a question that um I'm no longer supporting 32.6%. Again, I just want to make sure that everything is accurate. All our eyes are dotted, our tees are crossed, and I'm a math and science person. I ask a lot of questions. And um I may not ask them in a lovely manner like Miss Martin, but um I I feel very passionately about this and I do take things that I do seriously and to heart. and I have spent many hours in budget meetings and um it's not that I haven't given it this time. Um we are very much desiring that um there are and again within things within our control and I think that Abby has said that many of much of this is

123out of our control but what is within our control we want to do handle it to the best of our ability and so I will end it [Music] there. I'll just also add um in regards to the the state of the budget. Um while I agree 326 is unacceptable, this did not happen overnight and and many years this board and boards before us didn't go to the 2% or they didn't use bank cap. And if you look at the beginning number of $14 million and you add 2% to that, that's only a couple hundred $250,000. That's ridiculous to to think that that's going to sustain a school district. So, we have to think above that and the state has allowed us to do that with these numbers. The healthcare allowance, the enrollment allowance, while I

124feel like it's circumventing the 2% cap law. Yes, I do. Um, but I, you know, I'm willing to do that to save most positions in this district. I'm not willing to go to the 32.6. So, I think we have to just come to consensus on this board. Um, and in terms of hating the other superintendent, I'd like to comment on that. No one hated her. We just thought she wasn't a good fit for the district. Would anybody else like to comment? Yeah, I'll go. Um, there's an old saying, there's two things you don't want to see being made. Sausage and laws. Uh we're not making law up here, but we are talking about the budget. Um I believe everyone up here does have the school district uh and the kids specifically in mind. Um but

125we have we all have different personalities. We all have different uh ways that we get to our conclusion so that we can sleep at night when we make these decisions. But I do want to um just say that, you know, this is probably pretty tame compared to other meetings I've seen outside of here uh in my 20 years in government politics. Um everybody does respect up each other up here. I believe uh we may have differences in opinion. We may try to talk over each other from time to time. Uh but so far what I've seen in the past uh 3 years being involved in this uh we've all respected each other. Uh, not always agreed, but we definitely respected each other. And Robert, um, you always do call back. Anytime I have a question,

126you always text back. You always always respond. Uh, with that being said, Christine and I tried to get another formal meeting with everybody here, but doesn't sound like that's going to happen. So, you know, if you still do have questions, I do hope that you and Robert do meet at some point, uh, so that you're able to talk to him one-on-one and, you know, be there as long as you need to be to get the questions answered. It may be 5 hours. So, just prepare for that. It's the end of my semester, so, uh, well, like the gentleman said, all hands on deck, so try to find some time. Uh, all of us sacrificed to be up here. I had to cancel a soccer coach. I'm a soccer coach as well. I had to cancel

127practice tonight, but this is important. This is number one thing that we can be doing for our community right now is making sure that is adequately funded and we have uh the most amount of teachers in the building remain here. Uh someone had mentioned earlier about there is no other high uh tax increase like this anywhere in Ocean County and probably in the state there's probably only one or two other districts. But I would also say no other district hopefully like is going to be like ours where we don't lose teachers this year. Yes, their tax increase increase may not be as high, but they are going to be losing a substantial amount of teachers. And I view it as an investment in our kids by keeping as many teachers as possible. Um, you know,

128last year, using the pun, like we we trim fat off the bone, tried to save as many teachers last year, but this year would be cutting bone off the bone when it comes to making all the cuts we've made. And now we have to make even more cuts to the teaching staff. So I see this year the 32.6% uh increase as an investment in the kids because they expect their teachers to be here. They expect to have steam. They expect to have music. They expect to have art and they should have that. Most of us had that when we were going to school or some form of it and it's up to us to make that happen. So um you know it's a tough decision. I hope everybody has the information that they need to

129be able to make that decision and be able to sleep at night. But I definitely know all of us have put hours and hours uh into this and we're all just trying to do what's best for the kids. [Music] Anyone else like to speak? [Music] Yeah. Going back to um the tax levy um the number 2% which was based off the previous years that we've used moving forward. I don't even think that number is going to be realistic anymore. I think that number is a thing of the past based off what I'm seeing with the uh Department of Education cuts, federal funding, um things like that. And at the end of the day, how could you put a price on a child's education? You can't because it's the foundation of their life to start. So

130to me, I I feel like that the child needs a fair shot in life and we need as many teachers as we can get in position to give them the best possible education. I'm just going to add two things because I know you can speak to this too, John. Facilities, uh, someone mentioned that and I appreciate all the comments tonight. I thought I thank you for coming and they were all valuable comments, uh, and questions. the facilities and lighting. I was here. I think it was here um actually it was at Frogcom where there was a roof leak or was it so we did bring attention to that. So we're very concerned about the facilities especially John that's his specialty and lighting one time you said the lighting wasn't adequate in the parking lot. So

131we are paying attention to that. It's just that the budget kind of overshadowed everything right now. But I believe right Laura we're putting in is HVAC going into frog hunt two the two HVACs that we approached three and is that where the roof is leaking also because I think we had asked that is George Mitchell Robert this is where we have leaks. Okay. So we have a roof um at Frogmont that was installed incorrectly about 17 years ago. It was it was just a a botched job completely. Fortunately, uh we are under warranty for that roof still for another three years. Two years, I think two years. And so, um anytime that that roof has to be patched, we call up the warranty company and they send someone out. Uh lately, they haven't been as

132quick to send somebody out, but they eventually will be. Okay. So there are there are we are addressing that each time it happens but it happens frequently just because it was and we don't and it doesn't cost us anything to have that roof repaired because the warranty company is covering that cost. So that's one that's one roof. Um there are other roof areas in the district and we do have a facilities crew that gets to them as quickly as they can. We get that done inhouse by our own facilities department. They're an excellent crew. Um so um so they're going to get to these to these roofs. Are there works work session or uh what do you call it? The workplace uh orders that work orders that the work orders that the staff can put

133in for What system are they using by the way for the work orders? Right now it's master library. Okay. But we are about to change over as of July 1st to a new system. A little bit cheaper. Okay. Uh about the HVAC system. Yes, we do have um three HVAC systems being installed this summer. Um but the um the best part about those HVAC systems is that the state is covering um I I believe it's 34 37%. I have to look at my notes again. Um 30 30 minimum 34% of the cost of those HBAC project. That's the ROD grant. That is that is ROD grant. ROD stands for regular operating district grant that comes from the state. They lay it out about every 5 years. And so we took advantage of it and had

134three of our most um troublesome HBA systems being replaced this summer. Yeah. The only the only thing that I was thinking of Laura going back to facilities is a way to counter the increases. So and I know we talked about this before Chris solar right. So, if we have any grants that we could look into or something like that for solar, if we have land that we could put these panels on, that could kind of offset that. Okay. Maybe that 20, what is it 20%. 20 plus. Yeah. Unfortunately, we've looked into that. Um, the first time we looked into it was uh or the district looked into it, I wasn't here, is when the ESU project took place. The EUB standing for energy savings improvement plan or improvement program. Um there's a help me out

135with the technical word. There's some sort of transformer box that has to be installed. Yeah, transformer. Okay. So, there's a transformer that has to be installed and that has to be installed by Atlanta State Electric and they're not installing it at this time. So, it limits us as to how much solar we can install. So, they they they need to put another pad in place with transform. Correct. And they're saying no to that. That's correct. Ah, that's Yeah, we we've tried. So, that doesn't mean we're giving up hope. I mean, we'll keep we'll keep waiting, but may maybe with the right people you could uh push a little further than maybe we can try, but remember the the power companies are not excited about offering solar. You're competing against them. Exactly. So, that's where we

136stay with it. Okay. I just have one final comment. Karen Shane has it the teacher that got up and asked about the teacher positions. I thought uh maybe Dr. Antuna can speak to that. Shran Strang sorry Karen um about not replacing those retirees. I don't believe they were all teachers, but you could speak to that or maybe answer. They were not all they were not all replaced and we're we're working through other options now. Okay. You also support staff also includes secretarial staff, technology, maintenance, custodial support staff is not only par professionals, right? And I know we're making cuts of at least one secretary in the business office. So or not [Music] rehiring was mentioned. Anybody [Music] else? Okay. I need a motion to adjurnn. Motion. Second. And I have a second. Second. Thank you.

137The next champion.