Budget, Finance and Growth Committee Meeting November 21, 2025

001Thank you. Good morning everyone. Uh my name is Eve Bolton and I am uh chair of the um Cincinnati School Board uh finance committee or better known or less known as budget finance and growth committee. Uh and we'll introduce ourselves. We meet monthly and this is obviously our November meeting and we'll go around the horn and uh have everybody introduce who they are and what they do. >> Yeah, baby. >> My name is Michelle Dunn. I'm with the Cincinnati Federation of Teachers Local 1520 and I'm on staff. >> Uh my name is Liz. >> Okay. My name is Liz Martin. I'm the new assistant treasurer office. Welcome to finance. Thank you. >> My name is Adam Gner. I am the director of financial technology up in the treasur's office. >> I am N Hen. I'm

002the state and federal programs manager. Also on the office, >> star stage and screen at the LSDMC districtwide uh meeting. >> Chris Burker, chief operating officer. >> Shauna Murphy, superintendent. >> Brandon Craig, board member. Jim Crossit board member Michael Gustin treasurer >> Kevin Ashley director of financial reporting and transparency in the treasur's office >> good morning Lauren Havcos chief audit executive >> Jessica Shel director of student dining services >> another stage to start right there >> um Chrissy Reeves director of student services >> Davis the board >> and Rob >> Rob Wilson um technician and if If you'd like to request to speak during the speaking of the public part of the session, please click the hand icon. We will ask your name and association to the district and invite you to speak at the

003end of the meeting during the hearing of the public. Thank you. >> Thank you so much everyone. And I know that on behalf of the whole committee, we will all uh uh and we appreciate the wonderful turnout from upstairs so to speak and value everything that you're doing for us. And we have been informed we don't have a time issue or at least in order. So we're going to actually uh abide by the agenda today. Very unusual. Uh and those of folks that are listening at home, watching at home, whatever, um you can find some of the material that we're talking about uh today on board docs and we'll get started with the uh financial reports. So, um, before we get started, Madam Chair, like to recognize a birthday here in the room. Uh, >>

004oh, >> so Mrs. It is Mrs. Haberc's birthday. >> Oh, happy birthday. >> It's so nice of you to throw me this party. >> We're all here for you. I wonder why. >> I mean, what would you rather do on your birthday than a budget finance? >> Absolutely. >> I mean, that's a present in itself. >> Perfect. Thank you. Thank you, treasurer. >> So, Mr. Ashley, do you w to >> Sure. Um, >> oh, we're gonna run Rob crazy here. Um, so I'll just hit a couple highlights while we're doing that. Um, I I feel like a broken record, but you know, obviously cash is down a little bit. Um, some of the things that contributed to that, our state foundation revenue is flat. And as far as expenditures, kind of as you know, we've

005already anticipated salary and benefits are up a little bit. Um, utilities termination benefits is kind of a bigger item that we noticed this month. Um, we're at least about a million dollars over where we were last year. Uh, so that's a factor. Uh, and then some timing of transportation, which is always um being a factor. But this year versus last year, uh, those expenditures are a little bit higher. Um, so Rob, if you'll go to slide four. This is just the graph showing cash and investment balances. Um, in terms of how we have those invested at this point, the the gray and yellow on the left are restricted for debt service and then more or less long-term investments. The blue is our operating accounts and the orange is the Star Ohio investments which are very

006liquid. we can pull those as we need those. And we did pull some of those in anticipation of doing debt payments next week. Um so we'll go on to the next slide. This is the three-year history. Um just the main operating account within US Bank. Um again overall the trend is down. We've been keeping more money in SAR Ohio to try to maximize our investments there. Um but we are coming up on the low point um in the next month or two before property tax advances come in in January. Next slide is a breakdown by fund fund type. Uh general fund at the end of October was 102 million debt service 79. Um the others are pretty much consistent. Uh state and federal again waiting on some reimbursements. So we're in a slightly negative situation

007there. Um, next couple slides. >> I'll give it back to Mike for the cash flow statement. >> Yeah, we we flipped it up a little and put the cash flow at the beginning, but I think that that then supports all the graphs that come after it. So, also um where crossa had a good suggestion to add a year-to- date column to the cash flow. So, so we're not only looking at the month but the year. I think that's a gets a nicer picture of that. So, so you can take a look at that. Um, for sure. The only negative this month was actually a good negative in expenses. So, that was um some indirect costs that we were able to charge to federal grants. So, that's less money we spend out of our general fund.

008So, that's a good thing. It's part of the stuff we do at the end of the grant cycle um as part of our final expenditure reports. We look at the allowable amount we have for administrative cost and sometimes we're able to save a little bit of money that way. So that's good. The two numbers at the bottom match. That's the best thing of all. You know, the bottom numbers match and they match to the rest of the graphs here. So, so that's a good thing. >> If I could, I appreciate what you what uh member crosset suggested. I'm glad you did it. Could you say again what you said right at the beginning how you've changed something? You flipped something for us regarding cash or what have you just so it does appear different than

009previous charts of this. >> It's just we flip the order of the slides. So So we put this slide first >> which is which is which is the kind of the sum the table summary and then all the charts after are going to support that. >> I was hoping like >> Yeah. No, we haven't we haven't changed. No, we haven't changed any numbers. just the order. >> Change the order and Okay, good. >> We're tweaking the slide deck as we go. So, >> I appreciate it. >> And then adding the year to date. That's >> I think that's great. I mean, >> good idea. >> I mean, some of these things are very I think you'll see some of the in some of the revenue and some of the expenses are very cyclical. So, you

010know, like we we got no um property tax this month because, you know, it comes in a couple times a year. So, but so it's nice to see the year-to- date as well. >> So, thank you for the suggestion. >> Super. Um so the next slide is cash balances for general fund at the end of the month. Um as you can see this year was 102 versus 137 last year, 131 the year before. Incumbrances are are down a little bit which is probably a good trend in terms of payments are on cycle and and being done a little more timely perhaps. Uh next slide is the three-year history of general fund cash balance. Again, you can kind of see where it was in the previous years, but obviously at the bottom of the we're down

011in the cycle again. Uh, next slide is three-year revenues um with the budget in the far right. So, the third column is the current year at 268 versus 276 last year. Um, again, about 42% of the budget this year versus 43 last year. all kinds of timing issues, those kind of things, but kind of gives you a a picture of where we are at this point. Next slide is revenues by month. Again, just kind of shows where the peaks and valleys occur each year. Uh, next slide is expenditures by type for the three years, uh, with the budget on the right. So, the third column we're at 225 versus 213 the year before. Um you can see salaries and benefits are up about $ three and a half million dollars. Uh and then all other

012expenditures are up as well. So kind of those things I mentioned before uh contributed to those differences. Next slide is expenditures by month. Um again there's kind of the peaks and the changes here relate to like a three pay month. Those kind of things are going to going to eb and flow each year. Next slide is unencumbered uncommitted expenditures. Um the key thing we usually look at here is the yellow slice. So about 5% is un unencumbered at this point last year was 6%. So a little bit better in terms of getting things allocated, encumbered, that type of thing. The green column is the actual or the remaining budget, I'm sorry, for salary and benefits for the rest of the year. The light blue is the what we've actually spent. so far. Um the next

013section is the preschool uh data that we usually present. Uh this is the number of preschool students from all funding sources uh showing the most recent three months and then the comparable October last year. Um so down slightly all the reasons we've kind of talked about before the the um state grant that expanded seats. Um I think that changed up a little bit this year but we still maintain some of those seats. Uh just a different funding structure for those. The next slide is tuition assistance. And just to kind of you know give a perspective about 600 actually we'll see this again on the next slide but about 638 students receive some level of tuition assistance uh in October. Is that a normal number? >> Again, the trend has been down >> because of that

014being the last dollars are used for those >> tuition assistance category. Um, so last year was 7:30, this year it's 630. Um, but still plenty of dollars being spent in preschool and that will continue to be the case. So, it's not um not really a seismic change. Some of it's just a funding source change. The next slide has again the the yellow on the bottom. Um this is only tuition students that had some level of tuition assistance. >> Next slide kind of shows a budget taxual. >> Well, you finish this side. >> Okay. >> This shows a budget taxual for the um preschool dollars that come from the levy which was recently passed and we're very appreciative of that. >> Thank you very much. So, um, but that this kind of shows an allocation of

015the 15 million what is sent over to United Way and used by Cincinnati Preschool Promise, uh, versus what's also used here in the district. >> So, um, and I know we talked about this a little bit before, um, but I think it's kind of worth stressing in some ways. if we're looking at the number of students who are receiving uh tuition assistance. >> Mhm. >> Um that's two slides ago. Yeah. Or on slide. Yeah. 18. Um the dollar amount though being spent on that is is it I guess maybe the question mark is are the folks who are receiving tuition assistance receiving more of it per student in comparison to prior years? um because I do think that's the we haven't seen a substantial drop in what we're paying. We have seen a fair number

016of based on other reasons and other other ways that we are covering their tuition. But um is it a fair to say that some of the students who are still left within those dollars that we're using are uh requiring more assistance. In terms of this calculation um there is an inflationary increase each year. Also, a student could be part-time one year and full-time the next. So, those dollars wouldn't increase for that reason as well. >> Um, we do need to do a full reconciliation based on the new agreement because it's based on enrollment for preschool students. >> So, we need to work with CPP to finalize those numbers. And then I do think it's worth having a conversation at some point and support for superintendent side of what is kind of the right size number

017for all of our preschool programming. Um because I do think that's the other part is that we you know adding more students means adding more people who tend to add more cost onto that than necessarily are covered by all the grants in that same way. That's not to say we shouldn't do it, but it it's to say if we are rethinking how our space will be used in some of those areas, make sure that we're at a what's the good number? Like what's the number we're striving to stay in that range of? So then we're thinking about again how do we pay for programs where we have a grant one year but then the grant goes away or some of these other things that are helpful to pay but as invariably happens with our district

018we do a grant one year that pays for it and the very next year we're paying out of the general fund towards something that we didn't necessarily have in the previous year's general fund. So I I just would be curious if there's any thoughts about like what's the right size number? >> That's a very interesting question. Last year, you may recall, uh, Director Brooks and her team did a little bit of right sizing for Sensei Public Schools, which helped us tremendously um, not only make sure we have the appropriate space, but obviously helped us financially uh, being that we don't get money from the state for our preschoolers. So, we'll continue to look at that and maybe um, have a more concrete response for you in terms of what does that actually look like right

019now? Yeah, because again I think since we're now past the uh the levy, so we have the levy to we don't have the levy to to to deal with. I think it is a good idea to for us to start the conversation around what does that right size number look like for the district based on our buildings and and our facility oper opportunities. Um and that will also help charge what then as we look at the numbers of what we're spending for each of the grants and different programs that are under different things from the state, what can we truly manage? Um the one other question I had around this and I think this goes a little bit towards >> where you're ending the conversation. Um how is that shaping how we're going to proceed

020going forward with uh the master agreement in how we're going to fund both programs both preschool promise and our uh preschool programming that uses some of these same dollars. >> It's a good it's a good discussion. Obviously, the last master agreement was based on enrollment and it's really based on enrollment I think at the end of December. So, so that that number for next year is coming up quickly and and then there's some set aides for each side and then there and then there's some things I think you know one of the issues not to speak for for preschool promise but but one of the one of the issues we have to confront going forward is you know there was a lot of initial cash when this levy was first passed and so there there

021was a carrier balance and that carrier balance has steadily eroded by by design, you know, as these programs have grown. And so there's a lot of discussion about how you get back to living within your means, you know, and that, you know, even even if it's not a 50/50 split, if it's a if it's a 60/40 split or a 5545 split, you know, it's we're still looking at a total of $15 million. >> Mr. Crosset, >> the master agreement, is it is the new agreement just affected this school year or the last school year as well? if it's effective this school year going forward. >> I have to look >> three years I think. I think it was three. It's either three or five. I mean I know for the next couple years it's in

022effect. >> No. >> Can we add more questions? >> Just one other aspect on that. um the costs that were estimated for the budget with regard to tuition um assistance where we are now. Are we in a good range in comparison to what we had budgeted for for the year? >> Um we're on the low end in terms of the calculation um because you know our budget which was an estimate from our side was 7.5 million um for tuition assistance and we're only at 1.6 so far. Obviously July we didn't have any so you know the timing of that um but compared to last year our calculation was 1.8 this year it's 1.6 so probably on the low side there but um maybe as we get closer to December and know what the true enrollment

023number is >> excuse me >> that may change a little bit >> and and I part that because I think what we've typically seen is February is when we kind of maxed out on what our preschool numbers are. So if you know we were on the high side and then we were still expecting you know another couple hundred students or whatever it might come through that that could be another thing for us to be thinking about. >> Yeah. >> I think I'm just saying I think our discussions changed will change a little bit now too because before the levy passed we were saying those carryover dollars are going to get us through. You know in the in the worst case scenario the levy didn't pass. Now that the levies passed we we essentially have a

024stable funding source for 10 years. um at the $15 million level. So, the discussion can change a little bit based on that. >> And if we could just dwell here a little bit longer too on preschool the the U renewal that just passed for the 48 million which of which 15 was dedicated to preschool for both us and also a network of private providers. that 48 million that we passed two re reviews how uh how many now it's 10 years it was 2016 that number as we have discussed any number of times is now not enough money for preschool >> as it has expanded and grown. So it's going to be even greater less money uh if you will in the next 10 years. Um and so the how we do this really does have

025to be an educational decision um as well as a financial decision regarding right sizing. Now, for the last budget cuts, as the superintendent pointed out, right sizing occurred, uh, rightsizing staff, but we made the claim that, uh, we were changing the amount of dollars, let's say, or right sizing and the staffing, but we were still going to be able to have preschool for the same number of kids. >> That's correct. That's correct. So that number of kids is in part what I think Brandon's talking about that do we as we do projections and thinking um as we grow hopefully our enrollment grows generally K12 will that happen preschool as well or can we even afford to have it do that? Uh, and how does the new agreement fairly deal with first of all the kids

026that need the it the most financially and also how we continue to sustain the private provider network as well as our own. And I think that's going to be a big issue and and still remain the leader in the state of Ohio. Thank you very much for preschool because we want to maintain that as well. Nobody in the state is doing more than we are regarding preschool >> for sure. >> And that's that's a that's a that's a banner. So I I don't What are your thoughts? I know that the adjust the new agreement which isn't that new is from last year or so does help us a little bit more financially moving forward. But just maybe talk a little bit about how it differs from the previous. >> Yeah, I think I I think

027the big thing is, you know, and and work with them is is there's, you know, they we look at we look at number of students served in as of December, you know, and then and then that becomes your your split for the next year. And so that seven so that seven and a half million of new money get gets split based on gets split based on that percentage. And there's some there's some set aides like I said for each for each group for kind of admin stuff. We do a lot of like diagnostics with with that money and those sort of things. Um and director Brook's area. So, so yeah, I mean luckily, you know, I mean luckily, you know, this whole thing about this is last dollar and we have a lot of other

028dollars. I will say one of the stories behind this is the state early childhood grant and then the expansion of that grant, the full day pilot and we've taken 100% advantage of that. Again, that's a thing we should we should give ourselves some credit for and not everyone did that, but we we have a team in place that that can rapidly expand it, >> right? And the other thing is like I think the state and federal grants team has been much better about looking at the funding sources. Like we're not going to give back Head Start or Title One money, you know, we're going to make sure we spend those allocations, too, you know? So, so it's kind of how we braid all the funding together. And and so so we're in a better spot,

029I think, than than the privates are for for this part of it. Um and so and so the next thing probably the next year is going to be how do we how do we spend down the carryover that we've accumulated a couple years and and how do I assume to kind of taper that you know if you look at the budget you know you can look at the budget on that slide if you get slide 20 you know the budget right now is 18 million um for this year so like we're gonna get to a point where our max is 15 and and and so yeah the strategy is is how do you spend down that career money? I will say, you know, coming into the election, there were two plans. You know, there was

030a plan to keep rolling. Unfortunately, there was a plan to wind down >> and shut the doors, and there had to be. And so, now that we have 10 years of stability, you know, now we can really define the first plan of how we taper down into into just that $15 million allocation. And and I do think in the last renewal we we started at least out on the campaign trail stopped using the word expansion and growth. >> Uh and I mean that was that was hard because the all the first five years for sure it was all about expanding quality seats and now it was maintaining quality seats. But now that the voters have voted they are expecting for the next decade that preschool is a priority. And there are quality seats >> because

031we have entered into that agreement with them. >> Yep. There are quality seats all all across Exactly. >> the district. >> Exactly. So just as we look at the future, we have to maintain that. Sir, >> one uh question not about this but about expenditures um section also. I know we would see a little higher because August was a you know basically a three payroll month I believe. Um but September appeared to be a little higher than normal also. And is that just the other things that you mentioned at the beginning? Um it's not necessarily higher than 23 24, but it was more or less still up in in comparison. So we're seeing I know generally our expenditures have been kind of consistently around a certain figure outside of the >> repay months or when

032we decide to do a tax anticipatory note. Uh but I just was curious, have we seeing in these first few months of the school year Is it a just a normal, you know, we have people get paid a little bit more, we have benefits that cost a little bit more, products cost a little bit more type thing, or is there anything that was additionally added in as an expenditure side? >> I had a whole list of like each category mainly looking year to date for each year. Um, like a positive side and it was talked about when we did the budget stuff, the lease purchase agreements were actually down. So that was a positive um for that year to date. Um but again the ones that jumped out at me were termination benefits were higher,

033utilities slightly higher, um transportation. Um so yeah, I think in that three pay month, I think it worked out in terms of this point year to date, we we've had one month with three three pays. So year to, you know, year to year, >> um that should be relatively consistent. Um, I think Mike mentioned to us the other day there was a push to close outstanding purchase orders from last year. So, there may have been an increased spend >> to get that done prior to the end of October. >> Yeah, I I will say we did better. Good and bad. We We did far better this year. >> Still bad >> in closing. Okay. It's okay. like there there's no news that's there's no news that's ever 100% positive, right? So, but what we did

034and we can is through the push we did a much better job of spending out prior year purchase orders and we gave people and and we pushed hard and that and it's not and really it was for grants but kind of this is one of those rising tide lifts all ships. So, we're going through we're pushing people get those get those invoices in, you know. So the good news is we got this paid, payments are up, we were able to, you know, get through the prior year incumbrances. Bad thing is part of our budget is we book and having like >> we we we book and putting back about $8 million of stuff that just never gets spent. We ended up at like six and a half. So So we have to make up that

035in some other spot. So good is people did the job. They got their they got their invoices in. They got them paid. They did the stuff. bad is bad as bad as we did better than our projections. >> And part of the reason I was asking also is I know the things you identified are things we actually have very little to to no control over >> and how our budget goes up. And so I think that's another thing as we talk about the budget process later. It really is something we have to pay attention to. The stuff we control, we can always try and lessen and and try and keep under control. But, you know, if utility costs go up because for whatever reason they go up or we have an extremely, you know, extremely

036cold winter, these other things that can happen that affect the cost of the district that are not in our control like that's stuff that we can't account for in a way that or just the cost of fuel goes up or these other factors that go up. Um, so it's just something for I think sometimes for us to think about is that we can do a lot to keep our budget under control and minimize those cost increases. >> But you know, >> but there are so many things that are not in our control. >> There there is one other thing I think that just as I was thinking about that's a good point that also affects our spending is as we've as we've insourced some positions. So So I'm thinking particularly like the athletic directors like

037the work we did with nursing, right? like like we're saving money or we're neutral overall, but but employees get paid every two weeks. Whereas when they were contracts, those contracts came due quarterly. You know, we get we got we got a quarterly bill. And so and so it levels it kind of levels out your spending. So you're not seeing these big quarterly jumps where we get a quarterly invoice for, you know, for all that time. We're paying we're paying the individual employees, you know, every two weeks. One last thing from me on this and I I'm not sure I'll be able to say this correctly but you know how we build the budget whether we use the pyramid or whatever um visual um effort when we talk about obligated or costs and expenditures that are

038must be made. >> Mhm. I can think back and I think the superintendent will recall this. Probably Brandon will recall it too. We've a while back we had a levy and we said we're going to spend it on small or smaller classes. This is several several several years back. The voters and the CTF remembers what that promise was and they will remind us. And on this one, the you almost have to be with the preschool piece, you almost have to look at it as an obligated cost or one that's already guaranteed. It's the base of the pyramid because the pledge has been made. So, it it's different than all the other kinds of things we've talked about as being the first base that we have to. Um, but just be thinking about that because that

039pledge is very fresh and it's been it's passed and been renewed twice and it's here for 10 years. Okay, keep pulling. >> Excellent. Uh, I think next section is state and federal grants. >> Uh, oh, >> the star the star of LSDNC. >> Yep. Yep. Yep. >> This is a lot of pressure. >> She's still mad that I made her talk for that long. >> Well, I don't I think she's kidding you on that. She She enjoyed that little moment. I'll tell you, she had a pretty good time. And I heard two people say how they were so thrilled that you said something about um I think it was about background checks. >> Mhm. >> That if there's an issue about background help to see if we can help you or >> Absolutely. >> people

040felt very that that was great. They want to hear that. We want to help you be able to have LSDMC's and have uh and and meet those kinds of costs if that's keeping people from doing something to make LSDMC strong. It's very good. >> Yeah, it's it's very helpful that we're getting more interface, you know, with not just principles, not just budget managers, because I mean that's that's the foundation of every grant is that the community, all stakeholders, parents really should have a voice. And so it's great that we're being given those opportunities and and definitely my team's goal is to work with people to, you know, make things happen and make make it easier for them to get get the money to the kids. That's where it belongs. >> And I think your comment

041about uh the uh the federal requirements regarding engagement. >> Um and we wanted to reemphasize that that we we everybody talks a lot about engagement. you made a very strong point that that's not only something we want to do, but it's something that the law requires us to do. >> Absolutely. >> And again, there were a lot of heads nodding and kind of looking at each other u from that angle. I think that was good >> and I appreciated your the support of that too, the statements that you made. >> Happy to. >> So, um All right. Other than that, I will try to be short and sweet tonight unlike >> this could either get shorter or longer as the years progress with the feds. Mr. that you have. >> She said tonight >> I'm

042sorry. >> It's like it's like the Tonight Show, you know, they really tape those in the daytime and they just pretend it's night time. >> Brandon got real worried because we're trying to make it shorter than usual. >> Yeah, we'll see. Um we'll see. >> This is our hopefully final grant on 25. So, as um Mike alluded to, we did have an extension on closing out fiscal year 25 funds due to the problems this summer with federal funding. And so, this is where we ended up with our, you know, our major grants. Um our goal is 85% um spent out in the current year. That's mainly tied to the title one because you have to spend at least 85% and and again, the intent of all funds are to spend them in the year they're

043awarded. So, you can see we're a little bit low on some of them. um mainly title two, title four we intentionally went a little bit lower because we spent um so much in the previous year and you know we're still counting on some of that carryover to get us through this year because that that grant is fully allocated. So we're a little low on that one um by kind of shifting some things between title one because if if you don't spend title one you lose it. everything else, as long as you meet a minimum that's, you know, quite a bit lower, you don't lose those funds. And so, it's always a balancing act of identifying the proper fund, you know, within allowability guidelines, of course. And so, we're not expecting any sweeps in any of

044our entitlement um grants, which is, I think, a first in in a few years. >> Great. Great. >> We're happy about that. Um, I'm glad we started this initiative because the state just passed a new um, ruling this year that if you um, are swept in two or more grants in a year, you are excluded from all of the redistributions. >> So, that's a really big change. >> Welcome to Ohio. >> Yeah, >> cuz most years even when we get swept, we end up getting almost the rest most all of it back because of all the other people that got swept and they, you know, respread it out. But they are now looking at that and and really saying what we've been saying. if you don't spend it, you must not need it and so

045we're not going to give it to you. Um, so I'm I'm glad that that kind of happened in in conjunction with that rule change. So any questions on on 25 before we put it to bed? Mr. Greg, Mr. Cross? Nope. All right, then we'll move on to 26. Next slide. So, oops. This is our um where we're at for 26 spending. We're a little bit lower at 27% than last year, but we are above our goal, which is 23%. Most of that, I believe, is attributed to just all the chaos this summer with federal grants along with the gross plan changes that made our title one spending, you know, just get rolled out a little bit later as we waited for those student numbers. But I'm um pretty happy with that. you know, all things

046considered, I mean, we had almost a two-month delay on federal funds and also spent a lot of time re-entering all of that data. So, we're at about 53 million right now before carryover and um our total amount of grants and we're at 14 million spent or encumbered. The next slide, this just kind of summarizes it in a different way, just a different picture. So, again, we're well over the 23% goal on average. It obviously varies from grant to grant depending on the goal of the grant. Some of our grants, you know, don't get spent until the summer, but overall, I feel like we're on target. Um, we spent this month finishing up those final expenditure reports for last year, as well as meeting with the budget managers and the principles, you know, of finalizing their

047title one, helping them make changes now that they're in place and they have some, you know, results back. some of them inherited budgets from the previous principles. So, we've been working with them to, you know, just get their own plans in place and make sure they're ready to spend. All right, next or next slide. So, this is where we're at on our primary um grants. Again, overall we're at 30%. Um, some of them are quite high like immigrant and and we don't get very much money. So, one big purchase can pretty much wipe out that that fund, but overall we're well above our target on all of these grants. Um, we're happy, especially on SSI and expanding opportunities because as as you've seen, they're very involved um in oversight on those grants and and very

048concerned, you know, with making sure we're spending those out on time. So we are, I think, doing a better job this year of of getting those activities in place and, you know, really trying to make sure the monies are in the schools all year, not just um, you know, kind of last minute planning and >> very involved in oversight is a good way to put that. >> Yes. >> We've we've submitted our application how many times? Like 10 times. >> Yeah. that those applications are still not finalized yet um because um the level of oversight is is very involved. So, we're we're continuing to work on those. >> Mr. Crate, did you have a question? >> I was just going to ask uh and well, maybe also give kudos for this, but um you know,

049we had a delay in being able to even use funds in a lot of ways for for or even coming up with what we would have for funds this year in some ways. And so I think it is uh rather impressive that we are on path which means we're making a lot of effort to stay and actually catch up and get ahead >> in some cases of where we were given what we were facing with the delays. And so um and and also the question marks right of what we would even be able to spend because there were a lot of non-answers that were coming while we were being delayed for last year or the previously approved dollars. there was a lot of uh we're not going to do anything about next year's dollars until

050we figure out this year's dollars kind of thing that was coming out from the state. So I I just want to say >> I appreciate that >> impressive that we are ahead of schedule. >> A group effort of support from across the district. I will say that is also another factor that helped us with our carryover goals because the state did allow us to spend um last year's money a little bit later. They made some exceptions. So it is also kind of a offsetting effect because some costs that would have normally went into this year's budget, they let us basically use last year's budget. Ultimately, it's all the same pile of money, but you know, that did impact our carryover being less than it normally might have been because we shifted some funds for, you

051know, through September back into last year. So there was just a lot going on with federal funds this summer. to to either you or or the treasurer. Uh I know that in the budget discussions for this year's budget, u there was some sense regarding that the federal issues may not impact us that much this year, but I believe there were any number of warnings that the federal issues would impact us for fiscal 27. Do we have a clear uh sighteline as to what those changing dollars might mean to us for FY27 from the feds? >> Well, as as is typical at the feds, nothing is clear. I will say now that now that the shutdown is over, they are back to working on the appropriations bills. >> Okay? >> You know, and so we'll start

052to see news about about how that's trending. Yeah, I Yeah, I'm still sticking with my my my last estimate was we title one would be decreased about 25%. Title three would disappear completely and there would be some cuts to title two and title four. Um I mean Congress does what Congress does, so we'll we'll see. Obviously, we'll monitor that as they as they work to get that appropriation bill done. So, that is I'm trying to think what committee that's in, but but we'll we'll keep updating on it. Uh and then and then the other thing that I don't think anyone's sure of is is how that then translates down to the state level. So, so you know, you know, federal government doesn't directly give CPS money. the federal government gives the state of Ohio money

053and then the state of Ohio has to allocate it um to the schools and they don't and there are but there are rules in code I think that's what one of the things that Nan pointed out at the LSDMC meeting because there were some questions about that is is that a lot of the rules regarding how this money is to be spent or how it's to be allocated are are written into the federal code and so unless unless those get changed which would require Congress to change them and they should stay should stay fairly fairly similar to what we what we're expecting. >> And I'll say my questions regarding food and nutrition for a little bit later today. >> We we we do have an expert here about food. >> I know that's why I'm

054I'm holding off. >> But go ahead. I was going to say to that point though I think the while two and three later again we will wait to see what happens that comes out and I think there's some dispute with regards to where the senate will end up versus the house will end up on both of those um we know there's a substantial effort from the uh executive position to even if we were to keep in some form of fashion two and four there's a lot of effort around minimizing those or decreasing what this could be used for as well as kind of consolidating in some ways to these idea of doing a block grant which is the other part too I think you were getting into a little bit of a you know what

055can happen in a block grant is that a state can make decisions that don't necessarily reflect what the need is for the students in the in the particular districts and so I think that's the other part we may have to keep even if we had the dollar amounts there if they become something like a block grant that goes out, how does the state allocate that block grant of funds? >> Exactly. Well said. Thank you. >> Yeah. And on that topic, I would just add, I mean, when we're talking about preschool just a minute ago, going back to in Mike's comment about braiding the funds, you know, when we're making these plans with preschool um promise and funding of classrooms, we do spend over $6 million of Title One and Head Start money on preschool classrooms.

056So if our, you know, if our title one gets cut by 25%. That discussion is going to impact everybody. It's not just going to be that the buildings get less money. We have to look at, you know, our projects and our our activities as a whole and prioritize, you know, where where do those hits come from? And so we're lucky that we do have other funds um available, but we don't know, you know, when the demand is going to get shifted to them because of other decisions that are, you know, beyond our control. That in part is why I continued to mention the promise we just made to the public and they expect us to keep it. >> Go ahead. >> Right. The next slide if if we're done with that um we have >>

057so there's a if you looked at the agenda there's an interesting item at the end um which is public comment on district use of IDB funds. >> Yes. which we are asking for public comment and I think Nan's going to explain to you what IDB funds are. That's an important thing. And then we also have you know director Reeves down there who might want to chime in. >> Absolutely. >> So sorry Nan go ahead. >> Yeah. And so our goal was um this year to kind of highlight you know a different grant each each month and just explain the basics of its intent. And so since we do also have um requirements for idea B for the same kind of input that we talked about with title one of public input um we decided to

058focus on that one um this month and I'm so glad that director Reeves is here because I am by no means an expert on IDB. So I'll present just like the basic definitions and then if there's any questions um we will defer those to to director Ree. So the um Individuals with Disabilities Education Act IDB funds are provided to states and in us the LEA to provide special education related services to our children with disabilities ages three all the way through 21. There's really three main purposes that are identified and that is making sure these kids do get the same, you know, free appropriate public education that a child funded under general fund would get. um we are able to pay excess cost of providing that special education which are are great and are continuing

059to grow every year. Um you know this is a cost that is hit very hard with inflation when you look at medical type costs and and the type of employees that we need to hire sometimes to support these kids. And then we also do choose to spend some money on voluntary supports for children that aren't they don't have IEPs yet, but we can see based on measurements that they do need some extra supports. And so this year our allocation is was 11,800. That does include non-public funds. Even though those costs go up yeartoear just, you know, through normal steps and and colas and things like that, these funds have been pretty flat. And this is another one where we've definitely been having less and less carryover. Last year we basically almost ran out of money.

060Um especially when we have to use contracted services due to vacancies that's very expensive. So this is another you know fund that's it's really a challenge because there are so many mandated services. You know these are really entitlement services but the funds are are you know basically stagnant and going down when you look at carryover you know not being so large. So Chrissy and her team, you know, face a constant challenge of of providing the services that we're really required to provide with, you know, again, the same resources that we've always had. I'm sure there's also been an increase in the number of children requiring services that Chrissy can talk to. Um, so I've got one more slide. Um the the main reason that we um kind of again chose this grant to talk about

061today is because of this requirement that the district and and provides an opportunity for comment to the general public including you know the individuals with disabilities themselves, their parents, any you know any stakeholders really um from the community about how we use those funds if we use them appropriately. And then some other compliance requirements are maintenance of effort. So this this grant has a special test that's run. The district has a you know maintenance of effort overall that aims at always making sure that federal funds supplement not supplant. And so every year there are several um tests the state does based on our submissions to make sure that we're continuing to spend the same amount of general fund and not just you know putting it away for a rainy day and and blowing all of

062our grant funds on things that they think we should you know be maintaining ourselves. So, IDB has its own special process for maintenance of effort which um verifies whether we spent at least 90% of what we spent last year on um on these activities and and that's how they kind of verify because it's it's much more muddier I would say of what's allowable under IDB versus general fund than it might be under some other grants where they're just like no you can't buy food you know the the degree of services that are that are needed makes it um much more complicated. So they just do it kind of on an aggregate basis and then obviously audit individual charges. So that's really the all I have to say. I'll let Chrissy >> please join in. >>

063No, Nan did a great job. I don't really have a lot to add to it. Um I will say that the grants team does a fantastic job with how difficult it is to know what can and can't be spent with our funds. They do a great job guiding us through that. we have a lot of a lot of discussions um about what we can do and and I just do want to point out I I will be presenting at the board meeting Monday about some more general information so I don't need to probably go into it now but um Nan was exactly right when she said one of the challenges that we have is the contract and staffing that be because we have trouble filling some required positions um like school psychologists, speech pathologists, those

064kind of positions that we have to have in place and we end up having to go with contracted people. That does end up raising our cost and that's a big >> that's it's an ongoing concern that we're trying to deal with. >> We don't like taking that money away from providing it is going to provide services for students but we don't like it to go in that way if we don't have to. uh question >> not so much question I I think that point is one that we talked about uh in in great deal uh during the budgeting process if not last year the year before of ways that we were seeing increases in some of the costs and that was one of those is that we were both budgeting for the employee who provided

065service and we needed to budget for the potential contract that we would have to do if we could not hire the employee and that meant that we could not use those funds towards other things. And so I think to that point, it does somewhat behoove us at some point to be able to have the conversation around what is the best way to ensure we're able to hire those folks so that we don't have to use the contract services or are there things that are preventing and I know like every school deals with this so I don't think it's just us. I think it's a general issue, but are there things that maybe we can do to encourage some of our community partners to invest in providing some of those services with us in some type

066of partnership that's a better deal than the contracts we are having to do currently. I think about this a lot when we talk about psychologists, especially because some of the ways that work better is if you have some type of partnership with a organization that provides those services. So they can maybe not provide one person, but they provide a team of people. Whereas when you do a contract, you're getting a person for this amount of hours that provide those services. And so there are other models that might be ways we can partner better with our community partners to do that. Um, but that's again that's a hard part. You got to do it in the you're doing it in the moment at times because we don't have somebody in that role or you're trying to

067figure it out in in the situation as opposed to >> doing it in a period of time where you kind of have the availability to have those relationships and conversations. >> Well, I'm not sure what u all the presentation would be. I know the board will and a few board members heard uh in Columbus and and I think there's been an article or two published too about um uh AI and IEPs. So there I'm sure there'll be a question about that as to uh what's the professional standard regarding uh IEPs and AI. The other thing I think you'll find will be um might be some questions about uh the demographics of our IEPs and I know you know that already and also we have more and more of an emphasis on school by school. >>

068Yes. >> So I think that you might want to just prepare to be ready for those kinds of questions from the board. Can you gentlemen think of anything else regarding uh special services, student services? >> I don't think I say I I think it would be really helpful for the for our board if it is really stressed what these funds can and can't be used for. >> Um because I think you'll get I mean I'm sure you get a ton of ideas that people put out there that we could never do because it's uh supplanting as opposed to supplementing. Uh but really stressing that part of that aspect of what the services go towards because we've had that conversation around title dollars all the time where it's like well why can we can't do actual

069cuz we got 15 other people in the district that we pay on a normal salary to do this we can't make this 16th person it's a supplant as opposed to supplement or we can't replace the cost of somebody we've already paid >> exactly in that same way >> I think seeing the total amount too is helpful for people because when you see that we 7,000 students with disabilities in our district and the idea be is 11 million. That that in itself doesn't go there. >> That's reality therapy right there. >> Yeah, >> for sure. Mr. Crosset, >> um I was just wondering um in the uh budgeting process maybe u you can do some analysis of how many contractors you had to use, try to anticipate that in the budget process. Good >> question. And

070then um uh which which kind of reminded me of u a question I had earlier that I forgot to ask. You mentioned um Kevin mentioned that your termination costs are higher. That is that probably related to retirements primarily. >> So are are we would could that be offset by newer people coming in that might be at a lower salary just because they're in less in a more uh different part of their stage of their career? I don't know if you're seeing that or not, but just something to maybe look at that could help offset that a little bit. Um and then um I guess on the special services end of things um I'm just curious if there's waves not just to maybe Brandon mentioned it you know maybe you can get some better uh overreaching

071contracts or like a you know with an agency as opposed to a person maybe you're already doing that but also maybe look at potential um use of um internships or practicums that might be necess necessary for college students coming out. Maybe we can fill some of those roles in a lower cost u way as well. I they would require some sort of supervision I would imagine but that might be another avenue to look at. >> Those are great. >> Just a suggestion. >> Thank you. No, they're great ideas. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Other items? >> Anything you'd like to share further? >> I look forward to talking to you all Monday. That's this. Well, it's a it's a happy crowd. Um, >> Next. Next. We have one CRA agreement >> and we like that.

072>> H, >> This is cool. You know, it is what it is. It's the expansion of a thinly market area. So, >> I'm into that. >> Yeah. Retail space, apartments, residential. I mean, it is a it is a good chunk of money for us. So that's >> it's huge. >> That's a that's a nice that's a nice amount of money. You know, some of these CRAAS are like >> part of the Finley develop Finley market development. >> You know, some of these CRAAS are like 5,000 a year. This is this is a good chunk of change. So >> All right. Next, I am going to do Cody's part. Um Cody will not be a is not able to be here today. So >> code man, >> some prayers out for him and his family. >>

073Yes. Uh his dad's uh >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. So, um, if you go to the next slide, Rob, we are on the vendor KPI review this month. Um, so we have three people scheduled. Um, we'll reschedule curriculum because Miss Campbell had some other things going on, but we are happy to be joined with student dining services and the department of student services. >> Our stage and screen. >> Thank you, Jessica. Um, Rob, if you want to go to the spreadsheet, please. um and just go over to student dining services as we're doing this. So, as you know, we um pull out all the contracts over $200,000 for review. We ask the budget owners to look at the KPIs they established at the beginning of the contract that are approved um through the

074treasury report by the board and to give us an update on how those vendors are performing. So, I will hand it over to Miss Jessica Shelley if she wants to make any comments. Overall, it looks like all of theirs um are on track. Um but please feel free to add what you'd like. >> Yep. I don't think I need to add anything unless there's any questions. We have six contracts that are over $200,000 and currently everybody is on track to meet their KPIs. We are um managing that in terms of looking at our badge delivery um swipeins so we can truly tell if they are delivering our food within a timely manner within 24-hour period that we are requiring them to so we do not have as many substitutions um or menu lapse um items.

075We want to make sure that the menu we are posting for our families to follow is actually being served in our schools. And the main way we do that is by ensuring deliveries are on time and provided to our schools. Um, so right now we are in compliance of our KPIs and we are on track. I'm happy to answer any questions you might have. >> Do you wanna real quick? Do you want to talk about um your use of local vendors? >> I can. Um, I'm going to defer possibly to Chief Burkhart because we do have a definition of local that we've put into place for purchasing. Um, we do focus strongly on local procurement and I actually in the vendor name category I actually did put some information in terms of what local tier

076we are in for each of those vendors and we're very proud that the majority of those are actually in um tier 2 which is in within the Cincinnati metropolitan statistical area. We do have um one vendor that is actually within the boundaries of CPS and that is our um uh Creation Gardens who is our produce supplier. They actually have a facility in Queen City where they prepare most the items that we're sourcing from our local farmers um and repackaging them out for us to come to our schools. So that is one of the things that we look at as part of our good food purchasing program um board policy that we try and strive to buy everything within 250 mi of our district. And so that is something that we hold dear that we are

077supporting our schools and supporting our community and supporting the parents that work at these companies by keeping the money we get in from USDA in Washington DC in Ohio. >> Did you have something to add? >> No, 100%. on. We look at this or at least uh director Shelley and I uh meet about four times a year and really look at and we challenge each other back and forth on what we can be doing knowing that the growing season in Ohio is like 90 days. It's very difficult to to um source a lot of the products from Ohio, but uh when we can we do. >> Yeah, we're really proud that 90% of our milk is actually sourced from Ohio dairy farmers. And of those farms, actually, there's different levels of farms, and the majority

078of our farms has something called level three farms, which means they're family-owned and operated. Um, so we're really proud that uh you might you might see it under DFA, which is Dean's food, but they're actually sourcing in our RFP that we work out um with purchasing and under the guidance with Chief Burkheart, making sure that we are focusing on procuring that milk from our local Ohio farms. questions. >> Um, not so much question, but I will say I think it's uh one I think it's really remarkable that we have been able to get so much out of the state of Ohio and and more specifically local around here uh because it was a considerable effort from the board uh several years ago to to focus on. Um, and then I also want to certainly commend

079uh the hard work for the folks. know again we had some wonderful uh meals that I used for two days here. Uh so it was great. >> I took some >> um but I think it it speaks to what we're doing to provide our students with options that are healthier, more in line with good eating and exposing them to foods that they normally >> would not have thought of and and and been around for if they were not coming to school to eat. And I think that's the other part to that I think is especially powerful about what we're doing with with our student dining options is we're both providing local stuff but also showing how they can use local stuff to to eat things that they may not have always had an opportunity to

080see and experienced or be a part of. And that's something that happens a lot in some of our suburban district some of the suburban districts around us is you have folks bringing stuff to them on a regular basis and exposing them to things on a regular basis because that's what they are used to. for some of our students the first time they have a meal might be, >> you know, have a meal that's not just something from another culture or another aspect. Um, the one question that did come to mind is is around things like some of our students having this kind of goes back to some of our students with disabilities, but having particular needs around food based on disability and then also religion. Um, we do know that that's something that more and

081more our students will be asking for or needing. And so how are we sometimes thinking about that as we look at options of places that are providing us resources because there may not be in large number of some places there may be smaller amounts of stuff you have to order. So our our suppliers and vendors are ready to support us with those initiatives. There are USDA guidelines that are around what we can and cannot do. Um, we do have a a robust um, policy in place for dietary needs that are documented by a medical professional. That's a requirement of USDA. We just can't have a child come to us and say, "Oh, I'm allergic to milk." We've got to actually have that documented before we can change the menu for that I for for that

082student. Um, we actually have someone who's in charge of fully following up on every single dietary request that's put in. They go out to schools and do follow-up interviews with the students and do spot checks to make sure menu compliance is in place through our both our ordering system and our production system. Um, right now we have over 3,000 special dietary requests that we support throughout our district for our students. We also do have a policy as posted on our website as required by USDA that works around cultural and religious preferences. That's something that USDA is um dictates what we can and cannot do again. Um, I can't change a menu for a cultural or a religious preference, but we do make sure that most of our menus have a wide variety of choices. We

083implement a program here called Offer Versus Serve, where students have the opportunity to empower themselves with choice of what they'd like to serve themselves and dine with um us today. uh we have a a a vegan menu line so that um students can actually choose a plantforward protein versus an animal protein if that's something that is uh within their cultural and religious preferences. So we do, as you saw on Wednesday night, we do a lot of taste testing with our kids. Um when we have a new vendor item that comes out, nothing goes on our menu that does not have 85% or higher student acceptance rate. So, we are very dedicated to making sure that what we put on that menu is something the kids are are cravable is cravable and the kids are actually

084going to to eat. um during Ramadan. We're still waiting to hear if we have this USDA I don't know if this I in years past there has been a USDA waiver put in place for Ramadan where we're allowed to send meals home >> with children so they may consume those meals after sunset and we also make a concerted effort to make sure that all of those meal items are halal um as an extra added level of um respect to to what these children are are are doing during our school day with us. Um, we have not yet been told if that USDA waiver is coming out again this year. We are hopeful it is. We are planning like it will be, but we have not heard official communications yet. >> Mr. cross it. >> Um,

085yeah, >> visited a few I'm trying to visit all the schools and I have gotten back into it recently and uh the feedback that I've gotten from some of the high school students is that the food is good, but there's the portions are just way too small. Just FYI, >> I love it that the food's so good they want more of it. Um, so I'm going to take that positive spin. I will tell you some of this some of this came from high school football players. I I I and I will I will be the first to tell you that I don't disagree with them, >> but I am bound by USDA regulations. There is a very strict um guidelines we have to follow in terms of of maximum amount of calories, sat fat, sugar,

086sodium, um trans fats, total fats, and I have to fit everything into that category. So, I don't disagree with them. I think that is one of the things if I had the magic wand of USDA that I would not be making oneizefits-all meal plans, but that is not what is currently in place and not following the rules and regulations. The the repercussions of that are fiscally um not worth the risk. >> Yeah, the principles are aware. >> Yeah, I know. I know. But I will tell you this. So, every single meal at at CPS offers a choice of entree, two fruit sides, two vegetable sides, a trip through the garden bar, and a milk. And if most kids actually would take the opportunity to to use all that available to them, they probably would be

087kind of full. But most kids don't take the choice of every single option that is available to them. And so they say, "Ah, that that grilled chicken sandwich and and milk and apple didn't fill me up." But if they had taken the grilled chicken sandwich and the apple and the milk and the garden bar and the roasted zucchini and that, you know, then they would be more full. So >> do you think that's because their kids are do they feel time pressure or they just have to learn that behavior? >> You're going to get me in so much trouble, Vice President Bton. Um I I do strongly >> all of the above. >> I know. Okay. >> So I will I will say for >> we can fix the day if it doesn't serve us

088right >> for the for the for since I have been here of CPS before I was even director I have said for a long time that there is definitely an issue with kids not having enough time to eat. There is a um CDC has put out guidance that states that students should have 20 minutes of seat time to enjoy their meals. Um that's not something that is USDA regulated. But I will tell you that a lot of our schools have half hour total time and that total time includes recess. So kids are having a half hour to walk from their classroom, come down to the lunchroom, wash their hands, go through the line, get their food, eat their food, throw their food out, and go have recess. And um so a lot of kids don't

089have much seat time at all. And nothing is more heartbreaking than watching a a child shovel salad into their mouth as they're walking to a garbage can. Um we have worked a lot with schools and encouraging something called recess before lunch. There's a lot of um scientific journal studies that have shown that kids who enjoy uh their meal after recess time actually consume more fruits, consume more vegetables, drink more milk, and they're not in as much of a hurry because there's not that golden carrot. I love how you use carrot there, no pun intended, of of going out to recess. Um so a lot of kids will like skip through some food items because they want a longer recess time. So, um that's something we've worked with. Um, it is hard to We have some

090high schools that are incredibly large that have three lunch bells and there's just no way to serve, 1300 students in 40 minutes when the cafeteria only holds 650 kids. So, it's a challenge, but I understand. And that part of that is also I will say that while Ohio recognizes breakfast if we have that eaten in the classroom as part of academic time, lunch is not recognized as part of instructional time which I think is an incredible disjustice because those kids are learning a lot when they're having lunch with us about nutrition and value and but um it's not recognized as instructional time. So schools are under a lot of pressure to find where they can to keep that instructional time there. And so lunch is one of the ones that's an easy it's an easy

091smudge. And I'm I'm waiting for Mr. Burkheart to cut me off, but he's not. >> He's not He would dare not. He would dare not. uh to follow up on that because I you know I'm not a big fan of the current uh school day and I know we're going to have to be changing the current day for our kids that are interested in career tech and what have you. Uh so I I mean just things that if we could fix or dream about I don't see any problem with doing that. um help us out on any knowledge that you have through your professional group uh regarding um financial uh decisions by the federal government out of the agriculture committee or do do we do do we sense any additional Fed um worries about reduction?

092I I I have not heard that the National School Lunch Program is a target of any kind of federal reduction. They have actually um through the years um followed inflation planning by uh awarding additional reimbursement amounts um to through us. I will tell you that those additional reimbursement amounts are still woefully low um in terms of what we need to be able to have to feed our our children delicious and healthy meals. Um it's it's a it is a struggle um to to balance what we get for federal reimbursement to provide what we do for our kids. Um >> yeah, so a couple things to point out. one is um yeah, Jessica just hit the nail on the head. Um wofully underfunded um across the country for meals. Um with the government reopening uh I

093think at the 11th hour they were going to transfer money out of the school lunch program to SNAP to fund SNAP which would have then left our kids having to figure out do you want the SNAP money or do you want lunch? Um, luckily that didn't happen and they were able to open >> and I understand that was one of the major motivations to try to close this out and get this uh done was making that Peter, you know, Rob Peter. Anyway, >> yeah. >> Yes. Um, so the the other couple things is uh reauthorization of school nutrition school nutrition program hasn't happened in about 12 years and so uh Congress should be authorizing it every 5 years. So because they are not, we are willfully behind those um updates on not only regulations but

094price and getting that additional reimbursement to our students. Uh with that said, the farm bill which looks at local farmers, um there is some hope that a farm bill will be passed. What that means to CPS is it means additional monies from farmers will go into school lunch and so we're hoping that that happens relatively soon. Again, that is something that the can has been kicked down the road. So, we can be only as hopeful as the news that we hear that day. But, uh hopefully if that happens, we can get some additional local monies into the pipeline for local foods as well as uh supporting farmers. >> Great. >> Any other Yes, sir. I was just gonna say on one on that topic and then one on a different but uh one on that

095topic is that I know there is actually a big push uh around the country with school districts who have really struggled with being able to maintain um the increasing cost of providing lunch with the way that things are being budgeted. And so there are some districts who have really struggled with even just providing the very basic level of lunch for their districts each year um let alone providing any other meal in the day um without some you know that becomes where they have to cut funds from other things to to do. >> Um so I know there is a push and especially some of the larger districts where there are 100,000 200,000 students in their district where they're saying wait a minute we're shipping food pretty far away to get food here like this is

096problematic. So I I do think there's a space for us to be a part of that larger conversation with some of those districts as well as they come up. Um and then the second point is and I was thinking about this in in the context of sending food home for Ramadan. the idea of food waste and how are we managing food waste in the district also because I think there's been a considerable effort to minimize food waste which is also something that we should talk more about in the sense of our green uh being more of a green district and having more of these conservation aspects of the district and getting students to understand about food waste because I think that also changes mentality if you're not >> if you're grabbing a a an apple

097and you're basically taking a bite and throwing it way if you're thinking about food waste and some of the other things now you're thinking about that differently >> and maybe you grab it and actually eat it or you maybe leave you don't grab it but I think maybe just talking really briefly about what we're doing as far as food waste. >> Yeah, we work a lot cooperatively with uh Green umbrella. Um Chief Burkart and I regularly attend meetings with Green umbrella and we also work of our district wellness policy to talk about things with food waste. Um one of the things we do is we do our program called offer versus serve. There are several schools that just give a kid a tray and say, "Here's your meal." We don't do that. We empower our

098kids of choice um to actually choose what they want to eat. And as long as they have three items on that tray, at least one of them being a fruit or vegetable, it is considered to be a reimburseable meal by USDA. We've tried to um really educate the kids actually know what they're doing to be completely honest with you. >> It's the teachers sometimes and the staff and the parents who come through and be like, "You have to grab that." And we're like, "No, they don't. It's okay. You know, if they don't want it, they don't have. It's it's okay. I mean, it's it's it's a weird concept to think about, but sometimes kids don't want an entree. Sometimes they just want to grab some fruits and vegetables and a milk and call it a

099day, and that's okay to do. And so, it's it's making sure that everybody understands that we we are trusting these kids to make those good decisions and encouraging them, but they don't have to take everything on the tray. Um, we do also at every single school, if you've been out the schools, you've seen the share carts that are out there. So, we actually have share carts available at every school. So anything that we can possibly let's say a kid takes an extra takes in the morning takes a blueberry muffin and is like ah I'm actually not going to eat that muffin after all they can actually put it onto that share table and it can actually be available then for for other students for breakfast in the classroom we have share bins. So we actually

100encourage the kids then put those items into the share bin and then it can become something that the teacher can hand out throughout the day if the kids become hungry. So we have that in place. Um we also uh do actually I'm tracking it right now. I'm looking at my thing. Um, we donate items that are we know are going to no longer be usable in our lunchroom um due to expiration over long break periods. We donate those to last mile rescue and then they in tandem work together soup to figure out which items can go on the last mile rescue mobile pantries and which items can go to the soup so they can actually make meals most of those that go to our families. So, right now we are doing a massive if you're

101if you're out in our schools, you're going to see these last mile trucks going everywhere because they're actually collecting a lot of our items like our milk, our produce, our dairy items that aren't going to make an expiration through this next week. Um, they're going to be picking those up and making donations. And we do that again at winter break and spring break and then before the summer, of course. >> Just a couple of general uh issue. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> There you go. general general comments with our new board member uh Miss Arm Brewster indeed has a a strong background uh obviously in the whole no waste >> uh effort. So I think that'll be great. It'll be a great advent. I think too that what as we look at uh our

102own not the state report card but the report card that we are developing uh I I honestly think that the food thing uh and it has been for more than at least the decade that I can think of is uh we I think we lead the state I think we lead the nation and I know the agricultural department has been here on a few occasions to compliment us and it's another message that we do not get out to the public as to being being the leader in something and and so much of that is really due to you >> and uh and due to >> my team. Yeah. And your team and everybody. But but the point is it it's something that we're very very proud of for sure. And the other sad thing is

103that for a long time at in the nation at the capital in Washington food and nutrition and the farm committees were always bipartisan and that's one of the that's one of the casualties of this new tenor because when we would go to DC and hear people and bring the folks the chairs and the ranking member of the agriculture committee for both the Senate and the House. I mean, that's who the the boards of education wanted to hear from because it's over the food program and that's where it comes from, not the ed department or what have you. But hopefully we'll get that back and maybe maybe the food thing might might be or the snap versus lunch that might help uh bring back some of that bipartisanship. Mr. Crosset, >> I just wanted I'm glad

104you're working with the last smile. I just wanted to point out that that was founded by a CPS along, Julie Shiff. >> Yes, >> I work with Julie and uh and Eric Hayden right now is who I'm working with too to make sure we get all the pickups. >> Excellent. >> Last comments, >> Mr. Treasure, are you good with the the food situation? >> Very good. Very good. I enjoyed I enjoyed >> that. His favorite quote is well uh what is it that you say about the general fund and food? >> Yes. I I will say since month meetings is that many school districts have to make a transfer every year to the food services fund because they don't they don't get enough money back in reimbursement. We do not have that problem and it

105is a great problem not to have. So I remember going to going to one of the treasur meetings and they're like have you done your food services transfer? Have you moved money? And I'm like what are you guys talking about? >> Yeah. So so credit credit to director And he says that among company, too. He did just say it among the family. He's out saying that any number of times. I've heard it recently. >> So, great. Thank you, >> Madam Chair. Okay. I'm sorry because I wanted to get this in before the applause, but I have to. Um, I agree, ditto ditto, everything everyone is saying about our student dining services and the leadership uh in the room today. I too am extremely grateful. I don't ask about any details. I just asked and Jessica

106Shelley and her team make it happen. Whether is the amazing piece that you saw Wednesday night with the districtwide LSDMC. I knew that they were serving. I knew that they were sampling, but when I walked in that dining room, I had no clue that is what was going to happen. one, two, I just want everyone to know she also supports our district in a number of ways that are very uh creative, including our student leadership council and including our afternoon milk and cookies that we have on a a quarterly basis and and a whole lot more. So, I too am appreciative. Uh food is extremely important. Um, and as someone who is advocating whole child um, school districts, um, I I hear what you're saying and it'll be an interesting conversation uh, moving forward with

107how we can make sure that kids are eating and eating well and um, learning how to make choices. >> Excellent. Well, I think that's a second applause then. >> All right. We have also on the um on the contracts review we have to look at our department of student services contracts which is the next tab rob um again I think I think director Reeves can tell us all the places they spend money which there are quite a few um again it looks like all of the KPIs are on track which is a good thing to see and I'll let her um expand on that. Anything she wants to add? Great. >> Thank you. Um, I really kind of wish I would have gone before Miss Shel. >> Um, I've had a number of people say

108that to me over the last 10 years. It's going to be a hard act to I don't think I'm going to be as exciting as she was, but um we have just overall 11 contracts that are over $200,000 and six of them are for tuition for students who are attending facilities that are not CPS. they are private um or other public places that they have for the most part been court-placed and it's mandated that they attend there. It's usually foster students and some of them it is because it is the um placement that their IEP dictates. >> Um the other contracts are staffing related. One of them is for um staff that is mostly related services staff like occupational therapists, physical therapists, speech pass, sign language interpreters. Um three of them are for staffing for

109vacancies and leaves for DSS pair professionals and skilled nursing services. That is the honestly that's the biggest area that we have trouble staffing in. Um and then one of them is for job coaches that we use for our students who are working on their post-secary transition goals um as they look towards graduation. So that is the total number of them. They are all on track um so far to meet the goals. A lot of the goals are you know 100% placement of students that need to be placed out making sure that we have them placed where they need to be. And we are we're we are we don't ask for 100% for staffing because we know that we couldn't couldn't meet that. But we are doing a good job of staffing with the agencies that

110we do have in place. And I I do want to point out this year um um that because this was mentioned earlier that one of the newer companies that we're working with this year emerges is they are one of the companies on this contract. They do have right now we're only working with them on paraprofessionals and skilled nursing services, but they do have the potential to provide more services. So, we may be able to do something like I think um board member Craig and board member Crosset both mentioned having kind of one place that can do a lot of the services. That is something that we're definitely looking at with that company because the staff that they have supplied us with this year have been very good. we've gotten really good feedback about them and

111so it makes sense to kind of look a little bit closer into that partnership. But other than that, I if anybody has questions, I'm happy to dive further into this. >> Mr. Craig, >> uh again, not really questions. I I think one maybe potential opportunity is something we talked a little bit about yesterday in our meeting with the city council uh healthy uh healthy neighborhoods committee is actually trying to combine some of the efforts regards to uh student employment and like that idea of career building. um maybe a space in which we can build some type of partnership that also may align uh the business community into that circle um so that we're not all doing it separate from each other. And I think that might consolidate some of the effort that that you all

112are uh staffing folks to do, but also if we have five different people talk to the same five students as opposed to five different students, >> um it it doesn't help. Um, I think one other thing that I was thinking about with regards to some of our student services, we've reshaped the what all fits into department of student services over the last few years. So, I think it may at some point be helpful to just kind of redefine to the board what student what all is encompassed in student services because I know for years that became an issue when we looked at the budget because we would move one thing out of student services and so now the budget looks a lot different then we move it back in move something else in the the

113board looked at it as this is your dollar right and not as opposed to what are we asking you to do as part of that that department and so I think it just would be helpful for us to get a little bit of a picture of what all is in part of student services because hearing the contracts sounds very different than hearing student services >> one of the items to talk about on Monday night you think >> it doesn't have to be Monday night but I mean I think in the near future as we're going through the budget discussion >> making sure that we're discussing that >> especially with the changes we've made recently in school health that's a that's a that's a big area so yep >> anything for I I would just u

114u have to say um too that I know we're in that period of reorganization and and new leadership and that we're glad that we are with uh you uh but um also I will uh date myself back to the Ronin uh uh superintendency and being at uh some place uh at some conference and I can remember Mrs. Ronan and I standing somewhere. I think we were kind of in a food line or a reception line or whatever. And u as often she would without even moving her lips would say, "You better watch out for the the costs of student services and transportation. That is going to kill us. It's direct. That's got to be 12 years ago." And then it was, you know, this. So costs have to be a major and the superintendent knows

115this very well and obviously you do too. But the the cost piece has been giant and growth beyond >> the norm. >> And that doesn't show up in this funding. You're right. But it is something that definitely shows up in transportation. We have been um there's also new leadership in the transportation department and we have been working very closely this year in particular to um try to be as efficient as possible while still meeting what the students need to get them there cuz >> yeah the interfacing between those two is has been awful >> uh from a standpoint of expense but even just separately those two areas of pursuits have all been a very large in growth to to be able to deal with. But this is this is good. >> Thank you. >> I

116got you. I promise. So, um, Mr. Treasurer, >> is this a is this a speed it up? Is that where we're at? >> No, not at all. >> Okay. Um, if you go back to the slides, Rob, we can see here. >> Not at all. >> Um, next slide. I'll let I'll let Mr. Hutchkins talk about this next month. Um, as we talked about, every month we're adding we're taking the school budget and breaking the cost down more. So, he added the facilities cost per building. >> Um, and then we'll continue to add these to get this kind of true cost of each building analysis. So, I think the next place we're going to go is the state report card. >> Yep, we're ready. >> I'm sure everyone's ready for that one. And this cohort

117though that appears uh financial to appear group is this >> is this our report card cohort or is this another different one? >> We're yeah we're we'll get there. >> Okay. But this is a different Okay. >> Yes, we'll get there. Okay. So, if you go to the next slide, Rob, so if you look at the folks go out to the financial report card and you look at the very bottom, always at the very bottom is a little section says financial information. We're always last. Uh if you if you look at that there's four big areas that that the state report card looks at. There's classroom spending, spending per people, source of funds, and then spending and performance. So we're going to take a few minutes today to take a deep dive into those. >>

118Yep. >> All right. So the first one um is this spend is this um percent spent on instruction? Classroom spend is what they call it. So what percent um of our funds are spent on classroom instruction? And how does this compare to our peer group? So we're at 65.8%. Um, their peer group, interestingly, is enrollment of 10,000 or more. So you can see there in the screen, you can also see in the this piece of paper that you have in your packet and I think on board docs, our peer group. So our peer group is really all of the large suburbans and then all the urbans. And it is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. So, so if you put if you look at them and I just like in my mind I

119drew a line on the sheet between Lakota and Akran. Lakota is the last of the large urbans. Akran's the first of the or last Lakota is the last of the large suburbans. Akran is the first of the urbans. Yes, thank you. Got tongue tied there. Um and and so what what we actually did was we pulled some data from all the districts and looked at what's different. So for example, all the large suburbans percent of English language learners, it varies, but their average is 7.85% of their students are ELLL. The urbans, the average is 10.8%. That's significant, but not huge. If you look at the percentage of economically disadvantaged students, the suburban average is 41%. The urban average is 98.2%. So again, we're we're talking about apples to oranges comparisons, but the really interesting one

120that I'm going to come back to is number of buildings. The large suburbans average 24 buildings per per district. The urbans average 67 buildings per district. So roughly three times >> soon to be changed as an average both in Columbus and Cleveland. Well, yes. If you if you see that if you see that Columbus number, that Cleveland number, >> they're going to go down, but but I'll come back to this, but it's three times the number of buildings, and this will become important in a second. So, how they get these wonderful numbers on airport code, Rob, if you go to the next slide, is a thing called the expenditure flow model, which is another highly complicated thing that the state has forced upon us. >> Sure. >> Not not unlike the state funding formula or

121or the 20 mil floor. Things are tough to expand. But but what what it does is it takes every expense that we have and it puts it through a series of steps and there's seven steps. Puts it through a series of steps to classify all the expenses. You know, it knocks out some funds right off the bat like self- insurance gets knocked out. It knocks out some objects, mostly like additional stuff, other stuff. It knocks out your contingencies. And if you go to the next slide, Rob, eventually you get down to classification by function. So function, everything we do has a function. Um the the kind of blue there is what they call in classroom instruction, right? And all the stuff below is what's not included. So it's every function from 2300 to 3190. Anyone

122guess what those functions are? >> Yeah, that's >> 2300 is a board of education. Okay. So I don't but I don't think you guys are the ones driving our cost. >> Maybe a little. I mean I I mean we do have two more board members >> was able to cut. >> Yeah, we we do have two more board members than every um 2500s are our fiscal services treasures office. So we're part of the problem as well. Um 2600 support services like purchasing Mr. Burkheart's group. But where it really gets interesting is the 2700s. >> 2700s are maintenance and upkeep of buildings and security. >> And when you have >> say about the number >> and when you have a lot of buildings, what do you have? You have a lot of people working in the

123maintenance and upkeep of those buildings, right? We also I would say compared to suburbans spend a lot more money on building security. You know, I think every school has an SRO, but if you go to these you go to these suburban schools, that's it. You know, you know, they haven't, you know, they don't have the number of security assistants we have. Those are two big drivers. And then obviously 2800s is transportation. And we can talk about transportation cost. So, so, so that's why I say these are apples to oranges comparisons. Like number one thing is just the number of buildings, the amount of money we spend to upkeep our buildings. And then the next one in the 3000s is food service is student dining services or food services. So so the amount of money that

124we spend to keep our kids fed safe and in and in environments that are able to be learning is going to be higher than than these suburban districts. So what so my interest in this is that this we're spending a lot of time on the report card which I think the report cards a bad thing to begin with but we have to focus on it. They're focusing on it educationally, instructionally and the assessments and whatever. But this is the this is kind of one of the things that regular folk that are semi-informed would look and see whether or not we're being financially reasonable or how much money is being spent where but it and it doesn't say in the report card what these how this cohort has been arranged. It's just by size. So as

125we make the public more aware of our report card all parts of it, we need to make them more aware here and explain just like we have to explain about graduation rate and whatever. So that a lot of education has to go on here. But this helps a lot to figure out why and may is there any way that the report card can be more reflective or the selection of cohorts could be more reasonable? Is that ODW? >> That is not something we choose. That is chosen for us. >> No, we don't. But is that ODW or is that state legislative action or what? What do we know? >> I assume it's ODW. I assume >> I think we should we can find out those people. >> Yeah, we can find out. I mean, yeah,

126I think >> is this not a fair uh assessment? >> It is an cohort. >> It is an arbitrary drawing of a line. >> Yeah. >> Right. We pick 10,000 as a magic number and we do the line that >> I love that you did this. Thank you. Okay. So, a couple other things. So, let's let's Oh, sorry. Sorry. One thing I think might be interesting to look at is that the percentage of students um per building. I just did some quick calculations. I think I I'm explaining enrollment divided by the number of buildings. And it's for the suburbans it's 66% for the urbans it's 41%. I think it would be interesting to know why why that is. And I don't expect to know that answer today or anything but that's it's significant and maybe

127I don't I don't I just don't know why that's so so so such a big difference between suburban and urban. But >> yeah one one of the interesting things I think kind of going right if you look at the last column that square footage per pupil. >> Yeah. Um, and you Yeah. And you can see we're a little higher. We're 193. We're a little higher than the suburbans, >> but you look at like Cleveland, 277 square foot per pupil. I mean, this is why they are actively reducing their footprint. >> And you're all welcome uh for having a really good forwardinking school board. >> You can move on now. 20 years ago facility >> 20 years ago for this master plan >> in the last three years the ad hoc >> yeah I mean >>

128I mean these people are coming to us to find out what to do. Yeah, this is it is it is funny how we've had a lots of >> I don't know. I know superintendent I've had lots of our peers reach out just about just about how did you do what you did last year. I mean I know you've had the conversations I have those conversations how did you make it work? So >> as as the chair likes to say we lead we don't follow. >> That's right. So >> CPS >> Columbus um I get they come to me every day and then uh the Cleveland superintendent I don't know I forget if he said 18 or 28 buildings um so they're working really hard trying to figure it out. >> It's kind of funny if

129you look at Cleveland's plan like their end numbers get really close to our numbers. I think it's like when they're done, they have 14 high schools and 40ish elementary schools, which is which is fairly close to where we are. >> And let this be a lesson to the public and everybody else. You will recall Cleveland, for all intents and purposes, was taken over by the state of Ohio. They do not have a locally elected uh school board. And we were all in a big churn when all that happened. Oh, wow. Let's figure out if we can have a Cincinnati plan because the Cleveland plan is getting a bunch of state money. Unfortunately, what are they doing? They're they are underwater >> and we are not. So, so much again for local control versus the state

130knowing anything. I was >> Yeah. I I think one thing that at least to my head as I look at the numbers of both students and the to the point of square footage, which I think also is somewhat of a misnomer in some ways because a district that has uh certain programming is going to have a lot of square footage in that they have facility needs for those programming. A school district that doesn't offer much in the way of programming has classrooms and that's basically it. >> Or like a you know some of the districts that are 10,000 students may not have staffing in a in a way as a stu as a district that has 30,000 students that require a building, right? So you may have staffing in some buildings as opposed to or

131like you're using a school building as opposed to using a separate office and that kind of deal. So I think there's some sometimes it's also a misnomer when you look at why some square footage is lower or why some square footage is higher. But I think one part that I think is worth us having some conversation around at some point too though is there is this both the reacquired services and I think you were making this point with regard to where those areas we differ from the other 10,000 because of the nature of our students. The students that go to our schools are different than the students that go to Lakota because they come in at a different point in their life. They come in with different needs. They have come in different expectations that

132we care for and we're having to shift them much further than a Lakota district that has uh 12,000 students or 16,000 students, right? So >> if your 16,000 students live in a smaller footprint where you're able to care for and do more in that footprint versus a bigger footprint where you're going to have to now get them to different places and now those services have to be spread out further and all those other aspects that happen at the maybe 25,000 student threshold as opposed to the 10,000 student threshold. Um, that's another aspect of what we were sometimes maybe the conversation needs to be more around is that is it realistically the number of students or is it the geographic location or the the amount of coverage you cover? >> Yeah. >> As far as that

133goes and even that aspect because that for a rural community where you're covering even only 5,000 students, but those 5,000 students live so far away, your transportation costs are going to be higher because you're going to need more buses to get those students to school than you would if they all lived in the same block. And I think that's some of the things that we we are not hearing that nuance conversation from our state uh officials and state administration. >> Yeah. I mean it's it's an arbitrary line and suburban education is not urban education, >> right? >> You know, there's no concept of high schools of choice. You know, I mean to go to your first point, Mr. Craig, um, you know, we know we, you know, our classrooms with students with disabilities have a

134lower density, you know, by law, by program, you know, so, so you're going to have more kids, you know, um, some of the career tech programs also, you know, if you're doing, you know, as we, as we move into the automotive as one of our new career tech things, that's going to be a lot of space for not a lot of students because that's what you need to do to do the work. And so, you know, a lot of these suburbans too have a, you know, have a great oaks or have a Butler Tech and so they don't carry the space for those programs. You know, they carry the number of students. The students count for them, but they certainly aren't carrying the space or all of the things that keep that space for those

135students. >> You both of you hit on something. I think the geographic piece is huge. No pun intended. But I I also think that one of the things I I probably would get rid of in your analysis necessarily economically disadvantaged because that 98% we've already talked about that that's an inflated percentage because we're we're on the different lunch thing or whatever. We've, you know, we've cate which I think is something we have to undo just from a marketing standpoint. But I do think that the students with um uh disabilities would be something to figure in there. uh rather than that because I'm sure our percentage is higher the the other piece in it in it is the just what you mentioned career tech that that whole cost center has been removed what 35 years ago

136uh removed from the suburbs and it's just been concentrated in one place and that indeed is also when they took all of ours away. urban children lost career tech when that happened because we had career tech at most of our high schools for many many years and when they did that stuff out in the rural areas to help the suburbans survive they did not care about the urban child and so that's us trying to catch up u that's a very important cost center I I hadn't even thought about that Monica's good >> so so yes it is apples to oranges should say that >> it is but we're going to have to get everything in the same bushel when we talk to uh the public about that piece of >> paper that shows it's not

137as good as we want to be shown. >> Yeah. Before we uh throw out the economically disadvantaged percentage, I think it would be good to know perhaps all of them are inflated and it's still a relative comparison that might be important, >> not the absolute. >> That probably makes it just more sense than what I'm saying. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I I think you might be right >> because I think that is a significant factor. >> Oh, it's big. >> So, okay, if we can go to the next slide, Rob, let's just let's just cover the rest of the report card. >> Okay, good. >> So, there's spending per pupil compared to the state average. >> So, if you look at dollars, not not percentages, we we spend more per pupil and more per pil

138instruction than the state average. We should do that. We also spend more in non-classroom and we spend you have we spend more federal funds as you can imagine you know that that comes that comes down to the you know to the economic disadvantage too. So if you go to the next slide source of funds this is a fun one I don't think they realize that they put out here is that if you look at us compared to the state average we receive 5.6% 6% more funding than average from our local sources and 13.2% less state funding than the average school district. >> This is the only way you're going to be able to sell a levy right there. >> This is the chart that sells a levy. >> So, so as as you know, the

139state considers us to be very wealthy and compensates us accordingly. All right, next slide. Spending and performance. This is an interesting one. This is a quadrant graph and and we can talk about what's the best quadrant. I assume the idea is top left would be your best, right? You're the highest performance for the lowest spending and bottom right would be the worst, right? You're spending the most money for the lowest performance. And for some reason, they created another comparison for us here called similar districts, >> right? >> That's Fairfield. >> Basically, screw us. >> Yes. Fairfield, Northwest, Southwestern, Reynoldsburg, Westerville, Parma, and >> Princ Reynoldsburg, the tomato capital of the world >> and Cincinnati, Ohio. >> I mean, it's a little better than Dublin and Hillyard. But yeah, you get the point. So, so the

140thing is if if you if you follow I think what they want you to do, we are the top again of all the urbans maintain. We are the top point in all the urbans for index for percent spent index. I would also say that for all the reasons we talked about, urban schools are going to spend more. So thinking that we're going to be at the top of this little chart, >> right, >> the top left of this little chart is not not a realistic thing. >> Exactly. >> So, >> well, I do think you ought to have a dialogue, an extended dialogue with OD EW or whatever about >> is it possible on this chart to have the other urban be? It's it's their chart, my friend. It's their chart. >> Don't worry, we're

141making our own charts. >> I mean, we can make our own chart and do whatever language >> all those dots to the uh >> to the right and below are all the other urbans on our own report card. >> Yes. And if you Yeah. And if you then go to the last slide, which is our original comparison group, >> right? >> Again, you know, >> I see that just is a killer. We're below the suburbans and we're above the urbans, >> but it's a killer. >> I mean, it what do we say? We we've been consistently the best urban >> school district. >> We're not lying about that. >> But yeah, when you compare us to Dublin and Hillyard and some of those districts, it's Yeah, it's not. Now, I will say the people of

142greater Cincinnati would understand it's not right to compare us to the other our neighboring districts. But to let Mrs. Bates's point that she would always that's who our competition is for getting teachers or for getting enrollment. That's the reality. So, I mean, this this is something we can talk about and and but yeah, let's figure this is so important to get this. >> Thank you for spending the time on this. Okay. So, do you feel you feel better about our state report card? >> Great report at least, >> but you feel better about the numbers. >> I we have we need to figure out a messaging for this thing. >> Okay. Just one last one last little thought though around this is that I do think we need to at some point branch out if

143we're going to do our own to do the comparison not with just with our state far as uh performance goes because I think the hard part is you can put the two together based on what our state funds and that kind of deal but what we really should be looking at is what are our students comparable to what other students in similar states or similar situations or similar districts and those may not be within in our state. So I think yes, the comparative of the dollar to performance is one thing. The straight comparison of our performance really should be mapped around what other districts in a similar situation are performing and doing. If we want to look at what are what's working, what's not working. Something Bendy's brought up a number of times is >>

144because we are the, you know, one now the second largest, but we because we're so high up on that food chart, there aren't many that compare to us, >> right? >> So, if all we're going to keep doing is doing better than the folks who compare to us in the state, we're talking about like really two districts, right? >> No, you're right. Um if we look at what other states are doing and ways to be invent you know uh or what other districts across the country are doing to be innovative >> world class >> we will see benefits that will make us look even better in a lot of ways. >> Okay. >> Um we may still face some of the same challenges but we may see better academic results for the students that we

145can then do the comparison with our dollar spent number more so than if we're saying what is Columbus and Cleveland always doing because >> we're now ahead of them in a lot of these numbers. And so when you're the king, you got to go find someone else to take down. >> Just like the the child poverty rate, the cohort is is uh cities of 300,000 or more. I mean, there there's ways to look at this. I think that's great. I feel comfortable about that. >> That's good. >> Yeah. to expand a little bit. I agree with Brandon on his point there, but uh I know the superintendent's uh got a connection now with the Chamber of Commerce. I think it would be interesting to also see what their competition is because it may not be

146similar cities, but it may be cities like Indianapolis, >> Pittsburgh. >> Yeah. uh Louisville that also we we would want to compare with because of the u econ you know the attraction for corporations and economic development even if they aren't similar um acade similar in the numbers that Brandon was talking about they are there it's another level of competition that we have >> I like that >> okay >> good do you need to leave >> okay >> you one. >> Yes. Could we >> skip ahead >> if it pleases the chair, could we go ahead and do the debt um absolutely >> topic since Mr. Cross had asked for it. >> So that would I think I believe it's his request. >> I thought I asked for the debt thing. >> I thought you said

147you asked for it on his behalf. >> I believe on his >> definitely Eve asked for it. Okay. >> Good thinking. Good thinking. >> Maybe or maybe both of you asked for it. Let's >> Let's talk about debt. And I think Kevin wants to get out of here as well. So >> I'm good. >> Next slide. So we have two types of debt. Um we have voted debt and unvoted debt. So voted debt is our um our bond levy. You can see Kevin, do you want to explain these slides? >> Yeah. So this is just again kind of high level. These graphs came right out of our tax budget hearing report in January. Um so at that point they had not changed um because we were projecting that middle column says bonds and notes outstanding

148July 1 of 25. So that was our principal balance uh at that point. Again we're getting ready to make debt payments. So if you move over to the calendar year column that says bond and notes outstanding 1126. That is after we make these upcoming payments. So, we'll go from 173 million down to 152. And then it's showing the principal and interest >> payment. Um, with the tax budget, we're breaking it down between school fiscal year and calendar year, which which the calendar year lines up with the tax year as well. Um, so that is the facilities master plan, you know, going back to 2003, 2006 when those bonds were put in place. Uh, the next slide kind of does the same thing. I don't know why I get so choked up when I'm talking >>

149cuz you're emotional about >> debt. Debt's a four-letter word. >> He's emotional about bond lover. >> Sorry about that. But the next unvoted categories are basically the cops issues um which are the certificates of participation. The first three lines there it says authority for levies related to the stadium fund. So that's processed through the debt service fund. Um the source we do get money from the county. We used to get some money from the city. Um, currently we get approximately 10 mill 10 million a year from the county as part of that stadium deal that covers the debt payments that we make for those. So you'll see they mature um um well due date here that first one actually has already matured. The next two mature in 32. So when we get to 32 we

150will no longer have those obligations but we'll no longer have the revenue that supported them as well. The other ones are general fund obligations. So, we're we're moving money from the general fund to make those debt payments each year. Um, and they mature, actually the one has matured, the other four mature either in 26. One of them goes all the way out to 38. Um, so there's just different levels there. Um, that's also where you have the category of the mandatory syncing funds. We're down to two issues that have that. And so this one kind of gives you the balances and the the syncing fund and then where we're at in total. So the big one I think that's is the voted one. >> Sure. >> And how that one's going to flow when we

151get to 32. Um we'll no longer have the obligations, but we'll no longer have the levy that supports that. So I know looking forward that's maybe an opportunity where taxpayers could shift that burden. If if things go as they are now, it'll be a reduction for the property tax taxpayers. Um so it may be an opportunity to kind of rightsize some things at that point if we need like a maintenance levy uh or permanent improvement type levy to to maintain those buildings. >> Mr. Right. >> Uh I think this is a area and when uh we talked a little bit about this last year, I think it was um about putting together a plan before we get to a point where we would be then looking at the end of the bond levy and potential

152of a of what we decide to do whether it's a new bond levy or whatever. And I think that to me is also why we need to figure out the right sizing of our buildings, what our building needs are, what our facilities can be used for, can't be used for, because I think if we're coming in 31 to essentially pass a bond levy or to come up with a new facilities master plan investment, it we can't at that point start the process by saying now we're going to talk about this, right? Because I don't I think the voters have been struggling with I need tax relief. if I want these things or talking about all these other stuff, whatever we come with has to kind of sound like we've been working towards that goal along

153the way. So, I think it would be helpful for us as a district to even be looking at what our needs from whether it's certain buildings need to be renovated or certain buildings need to be created or built. I mean, I think we'd look at SA Park as a great example of a bit of a of a school where we may need to invest in some form of a new building at some point by that point or an addition that we have to be telling a voter a story about that prior to us getting to 31. Um, and so that's I would my only thought is I think that levy is important or the bond levy is important and the debt is important because we have to be able to create the narrative for whatever

154we're going to do next. And that's what I'm hoping maybe we can start to do a little bit more of as we do each year's uh budget and process. >> I honestly think we ought to be concentrating on that almost every meeting in some way, shape or form to to develop that uh narrative and even know what the narrative is going to be. I do think that the the end of the FMP is a real target for us >> because that's a big story and that's a big sales point. But I know we also need operations money like soon, like now. Uh what what will it take to us to get to the 30 uh big FMP and what do we have to do in the in the interim and um and how big is

155this maintenance piece versus new facilities? Um so I think I think we ought to looking at our our um committee title uh regarding growth and >> this is the growth this is a growth part right this is it and this is probably where that kind of discussion can start and I think we need to share with the board as as many times as we can where we are with this and get the board thinking in those big terms instead of some of the times we spend a disproportionate amount of time on some things that are either been decided or uh really are not within our purview. So sir, >> thank you everyone. I appreciate the u all the reports and everything. I have to leave right now. Sorry I can't stay a little later but

156u thank you all. Great great job to everybody. Appreciate it. >> Great. Thanks Jim. Okay. I think next thing and I think >> could I ask this about for next month kind of a timeline >> of uh debt relief and our levies and renewals >> and you know uh stars or whatever around at 30 something when we get rid of the FMP and then maybe start talking about uh property tax stuff but also income tax. and just start to I mean make it all on one big piece of paper. >> I think you're right. There's a lot of a lot of building blocks to get there. >> 5 years, you know, when this all has to decisions have to be made is a long way away, but yet it's not very far away. That's >>

157right. >> And I think that potentially has to be part of the discussion for new money >> in the next year or two just as a a long-term plan. >> I I agree. And I mean even this uh fiscal 27 I think we have to made have made some major discussions and decisions to even figure out what this budget's going to look like. >> Yeah. >> So yeah, if we can think I don't know how you want to organize that but the whole the whole piece. >> Okay. >> I think >> sir >> the one other thing too that is the uh advocacy on the state level for dollars that are being dedicated for different for specific things. Um, so for instance, if what we're bringing to the voters is a smaller bond levy because

158we're able to utilize funds from other resources in the state to cover the cost of some of the stuff we want to do. It reads better to a voter than for us to come and say we want $100 million to do a new building, right? versus some of the things that we've been able to do in the past or even the campa you know for building a capital campaign through the um uh kid future right >> absolutely >> that that type of thing is all a part of that >> I also think and again I made jokes about it at our retreat about you know building some type of sports complex or something like that but I think those are the things also the bigger picture items >> yeah the bigger picture items for it

159though are the things that also make a great nar narrative to a voter. Telling a voter you're going to add two classrooms doesn't sound as great. >> No. Or fix windows >> or Yeah. fixing windows or roofs doesn't sound as great as we've built this great partnership up with this group and this group and this group, this group. You are the lynch pin to us building something great for our students. Um, and so I I think that's that's a little bit also of it is what are the other resources within the state um that we can be able to tap into. Again, not this year and maybe not next year, but in that five-year part, where who are we lobbying with? Who are we reaching out to? Who are we building relationships with so we

160get those funds? >> Exciting times. >> Very exciting. All right. I think the next one just this will be quick. Um we put strategic plan and financing plan on >> Yes. Please explain how we're going to do both of those at the same time >> very carefully. Um but but but they are interrelated. I know if your superintendent can kind of give an update on where we are with the strategic plan stuff. I know we're working on getting um a partner to help us with the engagement side of it. regarding the partner uh we're working with. So, we closed out a bid process Friday, last Friday, and so we are in the process of scoring uh those bids. I'm hoping by the end of next week that will be completed. We had a a nice

161response uh of interest. Um and so, uh super excited to move forward with that. >> Thank you. Thank you. And then yeah the other side I mean it really is it really is a matter of being dialed in from from step one in the strategic plan. So as we work through these things I think one thing that we've talked about is taking whatever we want to call it the obligated off of is is disposing of that relatively early so we know what is truly discretionary going into next year. you know, and then and then working through that that process of how we how we take how we take what's discretionary and use it to support the strategic plan. >> Can I comment on just one of the obligated that it was not a part of

162our obligated last year? Uh the treasurer, general counsel and I did meet at the request of the union presidents yesterday. I do believe that we have to um include that request and our reopener, which we did tell them we would have a reopener pending the levy um as part of our obligated. >> What What do you know what you mean? Last year we did not give um an increase uh to any of our unions. I don't think that we could do that again. >> Okay. >> Uh yeah, >> this upcoming year. >> Now, Mr. >> We and I think part of what we did when we did the agreement last year was that we would have the formalized lease conversation with regards to the reopener post levy. So, I think you were saying that you

163were doing that conversation >> started yesterday. >> Yeah. Yes sir. >> I think that's very important. Um I and and what I'm thinking about is that we cannot have the um discussions last until the end of this year. It it would seem to me that you have to find a way to find resolution maybe earlier than we normally find resolution for this just because whatever we decide that is obviously going to be impacting at least one year and maybe more years just like this strategic plan that we're somehow wanted to have a strategic plan done by June um that strategic IC plan if it's a 4year or threeyear that strategic plan would have to include the times we're going to the public for money. I mean that strategic plan see is not going to be

164just an instructional uh uh plan. It's going to be financial right because we said that it has to be the same thing. So, we need to have the board be spending this time on these big items to talk about and what we want and you know, we've generated lists and all kinds of commitments all along. But go ahead. >> I was going to say to that point, I think what we we need the strate strategic plan from both the academic and the financial for how we currently operate. We also might need the 25- year district plan. >> Yeah. that might look at what is the district supposed to look like in 25 years. All right? Because I think that's that may be the part that we have not like we we've been doing strategic plans

165that basically say we're operating here based on what we're operating on. This is what we can do. >> If you're going to really build a new building, if you're really going to think about what true growth and expansion, you have to be thinking about 10 year. And we can't really do a 10-year strategic plan as we currently sit. And so maybe to that point >> if we're going to need new monies and these other things or what dollars we're going to need as part of that 25 year growth of the district point and that may be something that comes out next year. I know you spoke a lot about our bsentennial >> every chance I get >> but that might be a byproduct of that next year is the this is the district has been

166for the last so odd years. This is the district going forward for the next 25 or next 50 or whatever the number ends up being. that may be more in line with that kind of point. >> That makes that's part of the piece. It's not it's not just having our four our three year threeear forecast, but it's it's all this big stuff, too. It's the it's uh when we're going for more money and for for what what new buildings, what buildings are we uh not having? >> What schools are you merging? Are we merging? I mean, let's be real. What are we selling? >> The thought of 25 years is difficult. >> 10 years old when you're 75 >> year anniversary. That's it. I'll take it. >> There you go. >> I'll I'll either be

167looking up or looking down. I don't know. If you teach high school for 36 years and you're on a school board in the urban area for 18 years, I'm up or down. It's not you're not quite sure what that is going to be. But no, this is so exciting and I think this has to happen really in finance and finance has to stay like we said kind of united and really carry the ball on this and and make and I appreciate you making kind of the demands ever so often in a strong way that let's talk about the big stuff. and let's make a decision, stick with it, and move on. >> That's that has to be the way we have to do it. >> Okay. What else? Treasurer Mike, as Rob refers to you,

168>> good good conversation. Um, let's do I know we're 10 minutes over our time. >> We're good. We're good. >> But but let's let's go through some of the budget stuff. >> Almost done. >> I think this is these are important. >> These are important pieces. Um, if you could start in slide 40. There you go. 43, Rob. Oh, I I like those little tabs. >> I you know, we're I'm getting all the use I can out of those. I've used those in so many slide decks. So So >> I love your earth colors, your your fall colors for us. >> You know, honestly, this was all former Treasure Wagner. I just I just kept her slides and >> treasures trying to figure me out. She's a weird lady up there. >> All right. >>

169Go ahead, sir. >> No. So, so just kind of look look at take the big budget timeline which we've presented many times cut into chunks. October, November, December. Um October student projections and the forecast and the budget target. We did the forecast. We've talked that to death I think. Student projections we'll get to in a couple slides. Um November the election. We've talked about that. Very successful salary opener. Super just mentioned that. Um and then the public engagement sessions. And then looking forward to next month before between now and our next meeting um looking at initial school staffing and central office budgets. If you go to the next >> even with that >> school staffing that's just a normal kind of thing but let's be real what schools are going to be next year and

170or not next year >> is they >> I mean it's it all this is normal language >> but they it is it it has a bigger punch than the normal meaning and I think we have to get the board ready to be thinking about that kind of stuff. I'm sorry. >> I agree. >> Um feedback from engagement sessions. So >> Oh yeah. >> Superintendent and I had two budget engagement sessions last week was it >> all the all the weeks run together. But um um really fun to do. I appreciate appreciate appreciate my partner over there you know you know going through the questions. Um, people said they really like the transparency. They like being including the dialogue. I think this is very early, which is good. I think if you start people early in

171the dialogue, they feel we're brought in. Um, people did want to know how to get involved more. We definitely sent them towards their schools LSDMC if they were members of the school community. I think that's a lot of change. Um, a lot of people understand what the state's doing to us more so than I think in prior years. So that that message is slowly getting through which is a good thing. A lot of interest in the monatory programs, a lot of interest in transportation >> and monastery staffing that came up. >> Monatory staffing, monatory training came up >> and you all had an answer. It was Bramble. >> She more >> she had an answer. She >> more information. We have a great team. U Melissa Ridley, the principal at Gamble Monatory Elementary is really

172leading the charge, but teachers at the table, Deb Klein, assistant superintendent Klein uh at the table building out what our uh monitor training program will look like and we are hoping to be able to kick it off in June. Uh we've had some financial support come our way. Uh so we are super excited to be again a leader in this area >> and every time that gets mentioned going back to last year when all the Bramble planning was start or initiate initiative was happening that was the national group that you mentioned I think and what's the it's a >> AMS American monastery and so if I'm saying the wrong one then they'll be mad at me. So it's whatever one that is but every time we say it that has to be part of it

173because this is actually >> can be an international center as well as a national center. It's not just for our people. >> Lovely. It is. It is lovely. And then I the only other thing I think I'll say on here I mean some people had some really specific questions about property taxes. >> Yes they did. >> Maybe this is the commercial to um tune in on December 3rd to Money Matters with Mike. So, so in addition to Miss Bolton and Mr. Craig, we're going to have county >> We're going to have the county auditor, Jessica Miranda, join us, >> one of our new education heroes. >> So, yes, she is a her >> vote for her. >> She She is a great She's a great supporter of our district and of public education. >> But

174but if we're going to talk about property taxes, who better to talk with than the county auditor. So, that's coming up. And then the last thing I would say about this is I think it's a good reminder is continued focus on equity. you know, as as we go through a budget process that can be difficult, you know, and as I'm running numbers, it's good to have people remind everyone that there that we need to make sure that we're also looking at equity, not just and not just numbers and those sort of things. >> And that was the only time there was any kind I won't say heated, but a passionate kind of comment. There's still this idea that some are getting something and others aren't getting something. It's that real and perceived inequity among the

175district, which is another reason why it's good to have fewer magnets than we did three years ago. But we have to be able to show the the results and show them show me the money for the schools that people are worried about. >> So, good reminder to all of us. Yeah. If you go to the next slide, Rob, just wanted to give you a quick um revenue update. So, since we don't do the forecast in November anymore, we're sort of doing the forecast in November now. So, um you know, we just Kevin and I just did a quick um quick look at collections and property taxes and stuff and just restated where we think the money's coming from. Uh we're a little behind. I think I think state aid will bounce um as we as

176we get enrollment better. So this is one of those things that you know as the u performance accountability team works through all of the emiss errors we tend to this things rebound. >> Um I think you know state share property tax is looking good. Overall property taxes we're hoping I think are rebounding a little bit. Um the other thing that I think needs to be mentioned publicly is we built this budget based on two things. Um one getting additional city tiff payments. That agreement is I think almost done. I know legal council Hoyang is working on the finishing touches on that. So that should be done. And then the other one is sale of property. So, it's important to remember that that we um you know counted on getting $1.5 million in revenue from sale

177of property. >> Um yes. >> And so if we don't continue down that path, we need to find we need to find that money elsewhere. So >> we already got it. >> We did. So So just so just to show we we are running a little behind our projections >> at this point in the year. It's not panic time, but but but we just want to be be transparent about where about where things are coming in. >> Okay. Tell us again why we're might be panicked. >> No reason to panic yet. >> Yet. >> Um >> when when should I start to do that? >> Probably next year. When all when all when all the new when all the new things that were when all the new thing things that were enacted by the legislature

178this week come into play. Um, >> it should be on next month's budget agenda, too. >> Yeah. >> An update on that >> for for sure. Um, we'll see property tax collections, you know, those should bounce back. I know hopefully delinquencies go down again. We monitor the state aid every month. Actually, twice a month we get a new report. So, we'll see if those things start to tick back up. So, don't So, I think I think all is good. And once we get the state tiff payments or the city tiff additional payments, that'll help things look nice. You know, we've got Medicaid reimbursements, all those things. >> Yeah, some of this stuff is an act of faith in that, you know, I I remember Brandon kind of worrying about that. >> Yeah. Eates a little

179a little slow coming, but that >> really slow, >> but that comes. So, yes, there's a lot of things that can keep you up at night. >> All right. This is why it's important to have cash balances. Uhhuh. So that we don't All right. If you go two slides, Rob, real quick. Um Mr. Galahghue did his initial initial very first um enrollment projections for next year. So the so these are important um slight increase slight increase going into 2627, but this is where we start building out all the budget pieces. So we take these numbers um we start looking at you know them with the staffing formulas to start doing initial staffing. We do a bunch of non-personnel preloads. >> You know Nan starts looking at them for title one allocation. So it's it's the

180initial it's not the final but but it gives us a place to start thinking. >> I like those red and yellow lines. >> Isn't that interesting? Yeah, >> talks on all their houses. >> I mean, it's just you don't even need to be nice about this anymore. We We are We are being thieved against. >> Mhm. Especially the yellow. Anyway, >> unbelievable. >> All right. So, >> but that's they were going to win that. So, >> yeah. I mean, you know, it's it's important. Market share is an important thing to me. >> Market share is very important because we want our we want Cincinnati kids with Cincinnati Public. >> Yes. It is our belief we are the best option and we are >> we need to run with it. So, Rob, um just to kind

181of wrap up here, if you go down two slides, so putting this out publicly, um cost of living adjustments, we just talked about the reopener. So it's about $4 million for 1% in the general fund and about 4.5 million across all funds. So So just publicly that's that's how much we're looking at. So you can multiply that whatever percentage people are thinking about that tells you the overall impact of the budget. >> So but you do have steps and obviously here too. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The way we do the cost of living calculation is we calculate just the steps, >> then we calculate the steps plus a 1% cola, then we subtract it, and so that gives you the additional cost of the cola. >> Cool. >> Very similar to

182last year. I mean, it's it's right in the range. Um, and then budget steering committee just to kind of let people know what's going on with that. So December, um, initial school staffing. So we had the enrollment projections. We saw a couple slides. There is a group talking about staffing formulas. See if there's any changes need to those formulas. You take enrollment times formulas. That gives you initial staffing. And then the other thing we're looking at is starting central office budgeting earlier. That was a big feedback from prior years. So we're working on this zerobased budgeting concept which people it's going to be a bit of work. So we're starting it early because because we're really >> doing it. >> We're really unpacking the budget. I mean one of the things that we're unpacking to

183is the function level you know not not just what does your department do but what are those functions you do what is the function you do and how is that because one of the things it'll help us find duplication you know we can look and say this group does this function so does this group and where's the overlap where's the synergy is there duplication those sort of things but it is a lot more work to do it this way >> well and however we're just doing it does I currently doing doesn't mean it's the right way to do it. So that's part of the issue of zerobased budgeting, right? You're analyzing whether or not this is the best way to do something. >> Yeah. >> I'm not talking process. We use that word too much,

184but whether or not we are >> Yeah. Are are we putting our we putting our resources in the best spots? Yeah. >> Okay. I >> I've I'll put my little ore in again. Uh what we found out last year when we worked through it is studentbased budgeting worked for our uh PK- to6 neighborhood schools and didn't necessarily work for the high schools. We even had trouble finding a formula for that if I recall. And it was weird for Monasuri and what have you. But as you look at different ways too if you think about studentbased budgeting. >> Yeah. >> Just in the neighborhood schools. >> And we've we've put a lot of effort already into trying to figure out that high school formula. >> I know. >> Um we're still working on it. >> Okay.

185>> It is. Yeah. It is it is it is difficult to to encompass all the different things our high schools do which is great. I mean I mean that's one of the things to have a district that has the level of choice and the level of option that CPS has makes formulas hard. We should recognize that. You know if we had the same program at every neighborhood school and we had you know 14 high schools that were all cookie cutters of each other this would be very easy. But but to allow us to have the breadth from, you know, Walnut to SCPA to the stuff we're doing at Aken >> and the least funded high school is Aken. >> Throw it in there. >> I I will say >> she's wearing an Aken sweatshirt. >>

186Yeah. I I will say though maybe maybe to this discussion and I think it's something that certainly will be helpful and I appreciate you doing the zerobased budgeting uh for the central office. The reality is that our formulas and somewhat are built off of what we've either agreed to andor said is our step practice which is much more aligned to what was offered in K through six and even K through eight where we have not centrally done a agreed upon or an expected minimum standard of stuff for is the high school and that's generally because they are they do have differing enrollment they have different size they have different things they offer and even right now we have some that are 78 or I'm sorry, some that are 712, some that are 912, some that

187are K12. Um, so I don't know that we can always say that uh building a a formula that's uh works to fully staff a high school will ever be the case. What we may do is figure out what are the minimums, which is what I I think we tried to do last year in a lot of ways is figure out what was the minimum things that we were required to do by law that things that we needed to have at the school needed based on the things that they were offering the programming they needed and that type and that still may be years away from being able to have that conversation in some level of uh clarity and certainty um at the high school level but I think that's probably a safer place for us

188to eventually move towards as opposed to creating the same type of formula that we use at the uh elementary and middle school level because I just I don't think we I don't think we as a as a district has made a concerted effort to build the K6 and the K8s to be the same way the way or we've built them separately in a different way for especially even our monasteries versus our high schools where we've actually kind of built different models at each high school almost and so that idea of them two high schools being a similar are operating similarly or even offering the same programming is very unlikely. >> Yeah. >> Versus we have a number of Ksixes that offer roughly the same type of stuff that we can kind of say this is

189what you're required to do, this is what you need to do. >> So, so to just piggyback on that, I think there's there's two things that when you talk about formulas and one is yeah, the formula can be the base. You know, we talked about core core classes versus elective classes. It's somewhat easier to figure out your core teachers. Like you know, every kid is taking English all four years. So, so you can do some math to get a rough idea of how many English teachers you need. And again, it's rough because you want to allow, you know, for the places that want to have AP, you know, AP lit or you want to make sure those things happen. Um but but there also comes comes the idea to have kind of school choice the

190formula that includes some school choice to say hey this position we do that we do this with with um electives or specials at the elementary school but we go at the high school say you know based on your students and things you know you have a choice of these positions and so high school A could take those positions into into this program high school B would take position of this program, there's still some level of comparability between them, but but you're not basically pushing people into a program into into something that doesn't fit their program. So, so both of those are options that that we kind of talk about. I mean, one of the things that I I know Brandon Alexander hates this, but I'm more for more optional formulas to say like, you know,

191hey, based on number of students, you get this number of people. Choose your own adventure. It can be any of these type of things and that I mean it's more work but it allows you to get a more authentic school experience you know and people aren't carrying positions they don't need and people aren't sitting there not able to do the programs they want because of those things >> I I just feel very strongly that the onesizefitsall does not work. I understand it's kept us solvent uh and and kept us functioning, but I I it doesn't it doesn't work necessarily. I think we've learned too that the the PK, you know, we got PK, we got preschool, but let's just say K6. I do think that studentbased budgeting works because of the similarity across the neighborhoods.

192I think we've learned this year and last year putting together the middle schools. >> Middle schools six, seven, eight need to be staffed differently than elementary and high school. Uh I mean just all the issues that have arisen in the middle schools and the middle school concept. I don't think we staffed for the middle school concept. U maybe I'm just feeling that way particularly about because of Pleasant Hill and its size. Um so I think that that should enter into it and I'm much more interested in this the state uh minimums as a starting place necessarily than having the whole formula which we have to do contractually >> but I I hate to start there. I think you start with something that isn't necessarily the best way to begin. So, I I think this is

193very exciting. And I I also want to say that there have been a few folks in public that attended both of those, the in-person one and the virtual that there might be one or two of those community members that somehow should be part of whatever this more expanded budget task force is. >> Um, and I we can talk about how we want to do that. And I I think obviously we're going to be doing a lot of budget work in finance. So that's the board involvement and board members can join. But uh I think it might be that that method kind of worked well in part for part of the ad hoc effort. >> Mhm. >> More kind of habitual casual sort of um routine involvement by just uh even a handful that's a representative

194group. So if you guys can be thinking about who those >> kinds of commu community members >> would be great. >> That's good. Very good. >> Anything else, Brandon? >> All right. The last thing I I hesitate to even go there. Expense categorization tool. >> Oh gosh. >> Right. That's why that's why I even I know I know at least one >> for when I'm tired. >> I know at least one of the two board members. is against this. We've had this discussion um multiple times. You know, the pyramid, the ice cream cone, the tears, I whatever we do a different one every year. And I think one of the things we talked about in our retreat back in the whenever that was >> October, >> it's been a while. Yeah. Okay. What was having

195a categorization tool we could we could use yearover-year because because the question that is very hard to answer is what did we do last year? If we say hey we're spending 23% of our budget on blank. The obvious question is how's that compared to last year? How does it compare to last five years? Is it growing? Is it decreasing? And so proposal was to create something that that we could use long term that would put dollars behind our investments and our choices that would be accessible to everyone um and would not be used to shut down discussions. So one of the one of the things that dangerous about categorization is is if you make categorizations like high priority, low priority, medium priority, >> everyone self-categorizes high priority, right? and and it can actually shut down

196conversations because you're like that's high priority. We can never touch that. That's that is not it does not help advance a budget conversation. So several meetings were had. Uh I think proposal I would go for if you go to the next slide Rob would be to use a report card categories some high levels. um you know, academic achievement, graduation, college, career, workforce. Add in some of the whole child supports, which I think are don't show up in the report card, but show up every day with our kids. And then add a operational efficiency one because report card doesn't really care about operations at all except for to penalize us for how much money we spend outside the classroom, right? >> So, those were some high those are kind of a highlevel thing to throw out

197there. And then um have a compliance section. So this is this is one of the things that I've struggled with because again saying things are compliance is a way to shut down a conversation, right? Say I can't I can't change anything in this entire department because it's compliance-based, >> right? >> Well, that's that's not that's not that's not an honest dealing. So >> So one qu So first quing of feedback would be do these categories make some sense? Um, and I think part of it I should say to kind of go backwards is is we didn't want things that tied directly to our strategic plan because strategic plan changes. And so again, you don't want hard hard ties to things that are going to change. So we tried to go up a level to kind

198of meta categories, you know, like we talked about like we always are going to look at graduation. I can never imagine even though Miss Bolton tells me this this was not the truth but I can never imagine a time where we're not going to look at our graduation rate as a measure of what we're doing that just basic to what we do right um so first question is do these do these categories look good look okay and then do you think compliance second question should be its own high level or should it be baked in >> to the individuals >> so I got a quick answer because I do have to hop out because I have to go back to work for a 1:00 meeting. But um I think the categories look fine to me.

199I think maybe the only thing I would add into a category onto that is >> um you have operational efficiency, but I don't know how just other operational categories fit into that because like for instance dollars you spend on uh security are not really in efficiency but are just dollars that have to be spent and they don't go towards progress closing gaps, illiteracy or any other thing. I don't know how they actually count those dollars either. So maybe that's part of the problem. >> Um >> again, that's part of your all that security. You're non-instructional. That's why our dollars on instruction look so bad. >> Um but and then the other thing I would say is adding compliance. I think compliance is fine. It's really about who's deciding what is compliance and what are these

200each of these categories. So I think at the end of the day it my question would always come back to the categories are fine. Who makes the decision of what fits in what category? because that's where you're going to have somebody who says, "Oh, no, we're >> can't be the owner. >> We're gap closing." So, therefore, we have to get, you know, we got to be in this category and none of their work does anything to close a gap. So, um that would be my only thing is is who makes the decision on the categories. >> I I do like that this doesn't include the the um the categories we had some years ago, the colorcoded chart, the and I'm not talking about pyramid. I'm talking about the stuff that you all had worked out

201which was um I don't know this was supplemental or this was enhancement or >> yes enrichment >> that that really flipped me out because I I was like who decided that this was >> whatever it I don't like the the subjectivity to it. This starts to be a little less >> subjective it would seem to me. >> Yeah. I I was really trying to take the value judgment out of it because because when you look at it and you see all your stuff's in enrichment as someone who has that budget, you start thinking, well, that's something that can be cut very quickly and very easily. And >> and that's what it look like. This is a low priority because you don't have to do it. That's why I do like the state minimum thing. >>

202That that is not some that's not just compliance. I mean, that's this is the minimum amount. This is what they're willing to pay for. keep you keep you legal for less. >> Talk about it more this next time. >> Okay. Yeah, >> for sure >> cuz we this all has to be done. >> Yep. >> What else do we have? >> Believe we are at the public comment on district uses of IDMBB funds. >> Great. >> If we have any public comments. Well, we don't normally. So, we have to start encouraging people. >> Mhm. >> So, do we want to how how can we >> can it can your can your um one of your podcasts or something? >> We can do that. We can add it to one. We can add as a topic.

203Yeah. >> Yeah. So, if we want to meet those those criteria >> Yeah. We're just going to keep bringing it up in places where we can um and document that we're that we're giving opportunities and um we'll keep we'll keep doing it as much as we can. But we do welcome >> would be good. >> Yeah. >> You could have an expert come in like you've been doing or something >> like someone down at the end of the table. >> Yeah. Someone down there the glasses on. >> That could that could work. >> Person that just took the glasses off. She's like, >> "Well, Rob has set up an entire like studio. We have our radio station basically. >> I'm showing my age on radio station. >> It It is a beautiful studio and Rob

204Rob has done an incredible job. >> Well, if that it does it appreciate the extra time everybody and motion to adjourn, Mr. Craig. Second. We