001Okay. >> Good morning everyone and welcome to the Halloween edition of the Cincinnati Public School Board's policy committee. Uh we're going to start with just a round of introductions and maybe if we could start with Rob and work our way around the horseshoe, we'll introduce everybody. Yes. Hi, Rob Wilson, a technician. And if you'd like to speak at the, uh, end of the meeting for the hearing of the public, please click the hand icon and let us know. We will ask you about your name and association of the district and invite you at the end of the meeting to speak. Thank you. >> Phyllis Davis, the board's administrative assistant. >> Kathy Cra, office of general counsel. Ronda Wilson, vendor manager and purchasing. >> Chris Burker, chief operating officer. >> Serena Boyer here with sales today.
002>> Uh Ben Lindy, board member. >> Kendra Matt, board member. >> Shauna Murphy, superintendent. >> Dan Horn, general counsel. >> Emily Campbell, director of curriculum and instruction. Amanda Vargo, testing and assessment manager. >> Jeremy Gelu, chief information officer. Karen Nimbus, Cincinnati Federation of Teachers, field representative. >> William Bell, director of school safety. [clears throat] >> Oh, I'm David Jagger. Um, >> all right. Welcome everybody. Uh, excited to have everyone. Um, our agenda is posted on board docs. We have a a good set of things to look through this morning. And I believe we're going to start with an alcohol waiver request from the Pleasant Ridge School Foundation. >> That's great. Um Amanda, you're you're welcome to share a few um words with with with the board. Um uh I cannot remember if if this is
003something that you've done with us before. Um but um feel free to take a minute or two. It doesn't have to be long, but we'd love to hear about your event. Thank you. >> Great. Thank you so much. Um, [clears throat] starting my video. Uh, Amanda Bennett. I'm one of the co-presidents of the Pleasant Ridge School Foundation and we are embarking on a uh rather large fundraising initiative this year to at the school here at Pleasant Ridge Monasuri. And to that end, we would like to host a um school fundraiser um for the foundation at our school. We've done these parties in the past, but usually not at the school, but we're hoping that this one might be a little larger. So, we'd like to use the gymnasium at PRM for kind of an adults
004only prom gala type of event. And we'd like to be able to serve beer and wine at that event. um that will be adults only on the premises of of the school on Saturday, February 7th, um from 7 to 10 pm. >> Thank you, Amanda. Um uh good for you all for getting this in months before the uh February event. That's great. It doesn't always happen. Um [laughter] uh any any questions from uh we're without my colleague Mrs. Weinberg this month, by the way. So you um you have um Ms. is mapping myself today. >> Hello. And I do not have any questions. Uh hope the event is a success. >> Thank you so much. >> And anything we need to address from the administration? >> No. Great. So, we are happy to recommend um
005to the full board uh this uh alcohol waiver for the event at Pleasant Ridge and we hope it goes very well. >> Thank you so much. Appreciate it. You are very invited, Amanda, to join the rest of our meeting and you will offend uh certainly not me if you decide to do something else with your morning, but you're um you're welcome to join us. Um uh and with that, I think we'll move on to item three on the agenda, which are um some continued discussion and and new assignments. Um the first item is around policy 5421 and grading. Uh, and I I really appreciate I think some members of the administrative team who are here this morning to talk about this with us. I will just give a very quick recap of of what we
006talked about last month. Um, and maybe Rob, would you be willing to pull up uh you're a step ahead of me. Look at that. Great. Um, so this is uh a slide that we looked at last month that has uh data that um came through uh information request and just want to thank again the technology team for help put this together was super helpful. Um but because it's been a month uh and because we may have some folks here who weren't here last time or who haven't looked at this before, I thought we could walk through this for just a second. Um what you have uh are are graphs for three different schools. Um a school A, school B, school C. These are all real schools in Cincinnati public. Uh that just the the names
007are redacted. And you have um each dot on each of these graphs is a different uh fifth grader. And on the horizontal axis, the x- axis, uh what you see is a number between zero and four. and that is the grade that that student received in the first semester in math in fifth grade. I think the easiest way to think about this is like a a grade point average where a 4.0 means you got straight A's. Uh a two would mean you got straight C's. If you see a a decimal like what's a 2.5 mean? Well, it means that student got a B for one quarter and a C for the other quarter and it averages to a 2.5. Um, so that's the x- axis, what's what's the grade the student received in fifth grade
008for the fall semester. Uh, and then on the y- axis, the vertical axis, uh, what what's written there, and this is all all on on board docs too if people want to download it, uh, is the I ready percentile. Now, I Ready is an assessment that we use in in CPS. A lot of school districts use this. Um, it's it's a way of giving a student beginning, middle, and end of year assessment. Um, that that shows how they're doing in reading and math. And and what's helpful about the I Ready percentile is it shows how close or far away the student is from being at grade level. So on that Yaxis, the numbers are going to run from 0 to 100. If you're at 50, my understanding is that means you're right about at grade
009level for that grade and that subject. So, I think these graphs were really helpful for me. Um, and we'll just take them one at a time. I think I think it's maybe easiest if we start with school C all the way on the right. And what you'll see there is you know the kids who are getting A's fours on that X axis also have I ready scores in math that are at or above 50. That's got a big green circle around it because it it feels to me at least pretty healthy. students and a parent who sees an A come home on a report card can correctly and accurately infer that their student is at or above grade level in that still on school C. If you look in that bottom left hand corner uh
010you'll see that the the the students who are receiving low grades these are D and F grades also have scale scores that are below grade level. So, if I'm a parent, I've got a student at school C report card comes home, it's got a D or an F on it, I can correctly infer that that student is below grade level. So, green circles now. So, green school feels healthy. If we go to school B, um it's a pretty different story. Uh there you have a whole bunch of students who are coming home with A's. Those are the the blue dots that are on the four on that X or horizontal axis. But if you look at the scale scores for those same students, they're often significantly below grade level. So if I'm a parent and
011I have a student at school B and a report card comes home with straight A's, I might make the inference that my students doing great. And in a sense, they are because maybe they've got great attendance and maybe they work hard in class and maybe the behavior is really good and they turn in their assignments. But what's also true is that student can be multiple grade levels behind. And I wouldn't know that as a parent looking at the letter grade. So this when I was putting this together, I gave that a red circle because that that to me at least seemed cons excuse me concerning. So if school C looks really healthy and school B has some cause for concern, school A is kind of a mix. You know, if I'm if I'm a a
012parent of a student in school A and my student comes home with a report card that's got an A on it, well, those those dots are at or above grade level. That's that's pretty great. Um, green circle. But what if my student got a B? So, if my students got a B at that school, there are three on that X-axis. Look all those blue dots that are at the 25th percentile, below the 25th percentile. That's a parent who sees a report card that comes home with a B on it, but that student might be reading a grade level or I guess this is math, might be doing math uh below grade level, significantly below grade level. So, I really appreciated the conversation we had in this room a month ago. Um, uh, uh, Dr. Moffett
013was here, Mrs. Weinberg was here, board member Map and I were here. Um, and I just thought though we had a nice robust discussion about what meaning to make of this, what to do about it. Um, I'm just speaking for myself. I know we give grades for lots of different reasons. And I think the grading policy we have at CPS is pretty good. Um, and I'm not I don't know that I'm suggesting we we grade students differently. I think that the piece I wanted to advocate for last month, I I still am inclined to think this is a good idea, but I'm eager to talk about it today, uh, is what if we could also provide parents on the same report card with information about the students reading level or the student's math level. So
014that if I'm a parent and I see a grade, I get that letter grade, but I also see my students performing math at grade level, my students performing math above grade level, my students performing math below grade level. Um I am a parent. Uh uh again speaking just for me, this is really important information. I do want to know holistically what grade my student my child receives and I'm also really interested in [clears throat] um whether they're at grade level or not. Um the last thing I'll say and then I'll invite board member Map and and others to share as well um I know that we do send home an I Ready report. Um and so in one sense it's not like parents don't have this information. I will just say though that I think
015an I Ready report looks different from a report card. Um an I Ready report I think can be a little overwhelming with all the different data and graphs that are on there. Um and you have to really know what to look for to be able to pull out is my student at or above grade level. And I think we can simplify some of that information and make it easier to find. Um but that's what was motivating me in this last time. Board member Matt. >> Uh yes. So, I just like to really echo everything that you've said. We did have a very robust uh conversation at the last meeting and it sounds like there was a lot of um agreement in how we report out the information to ensure that there is alignment in um
016how we are really uh assessing where our students are, measuring where our students are. Um, having been a parent, I wholeheartedly um, resonate with this experience. Um, just because to your point of we want to make sure that we're honoring that holistic scope of our students performance academically. Um but we also we do want to have the true conversation about where they actually are falling in terms of um grade level because that is going to help I think really make sure that we are being targeted with our interventions and drive our instructions um and make sure that we are able to yield the results um that we're hoping to see and reach the goals that we're hoping to see as a district. Um, but most importantly, I think it helps to make sure that we're
017having those um transparent conversations with the parent, but also with this with the student, right? As we talked about having data talks and making sure that our students are engaged in those conversations, they're able to see, okay, this is where I am um with my I Ready scores and this is ultimately the goal in which I need to accomplish. So if we're seeing two different measurements or two different grades, I think on the lens of the student, it creates that dissonance, right? Where they're not necessarily understanding what grade is most important. I mean, I had that conversation with my own child. It's like, well, I got A's on my report card. It's like, I know, I recognize that and you're doing well, but however, in addition to let's look at this. And so I I
018would love for us to be able to see um more of that alignment and that attunement happening. And so I'm really interested in hearing from administration on how we could maybe uh do this work together to make sure that all aspects are communicating in sync. Um, I talked about at the last meeting. I don't know if we could do something very similar to what it kind of reflects in terms of with the high school students. We know that for um on their report card, it reflects um if I'm not mistaken, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it reflects their uh ELC scores. Correct. where it's giving their grades, it's given, you know, what their GPA is, but it also I think at the bottom or somewhere on the report card reflects this is
019what they scored on each of their end of quarter uh end of course exam. So maybe modeling something very similar is something that I would be interested in so that again we can all um have that unified conversation with the student with the parent as well as with the teacher and and then that will help to create uh a successful plan of how to be more targeted with our interventions to move forward. >> Thank you. Um I wish that uh Mrs. Weinberg were here too. Uh I don't want to put words into her mouth. My memory um Kendra was that she and actually Kareem also thought that this was like an important thing to do. We should check with them and I think honestly I I'm sorry am I remembering that right? >> You are
020remembering that accurately and I actually also remember at least for um well really both of them but um also Dr. Moffett um this was something that she has been championing since um that meeting. So yes. >> Oh good. I didn't know that. That's great. Um, so I think where we were a month ago was this feels important. Um, I think some interest in trying to move something forward, but really wanted to hear I have no idea. Um, what if this is easy to do, what if this is hard to do, what perspectives the administration might also have. Um, and so I'm delighted that that there are some folks here today and I'm just eager to hear what people have to share. Well, I'll start and then I will let um the technical people jump in.
021I um am aware that other school districts do something similar to this with their report cards. Um the ELC scores are definitely on uh transcripts. >> Um but I haven't looked at a high school report card in a while, so they'll educate me. Um so yeah, I would be in favor of being able to do something like that. I think the more information that's clear that we can provide the students and the families, um, we owe them an accurate picture of how how they're excelling. >> Thank you very much. Um, excited to I'm I'm I'm uh just full disclosure not totally sure who is here to speak on what. So, uh, if you're here to speak on this, we'd love to hear from you. If this is not you, that's okay. Um, but whoever is
022here to speak on this, excited to hear what folks have to say. >> I'm gonna introduce our folks. No one should be bashful here. Emily Campbell, our director of curriculum, Amanda Vargo from testing and accountability, and Jeremy Galaghue from a really technical standpoint from our our CIO. Um, we've also shared the information with, of course, Dr. Smith and uh, Chrissy Reeves from um, student services. So they're they're also part of the conversation. >> Don't be bashful, friend. [clears throat] >> I I will go first. >> I'll go first and then that way you guys can kind of navigate the closure. Um this is Emily Campbell. I'm the director of curriculum and instruction. Um, so I I do believe that knowledge and awareness for families, the more the more knowledge families have about how students um
023are progressing through um their educational journey is incredibly important. We do have experience where we've done this before um not on the report card but in um other documents. Um most recently we have um with the dyslexia law we had to share with all um parents and families whether or not their children were below or significantly below grade level for reading. And um in many ways parents um they were excited to get the information. um they were thankful to have the information because then they could do some of the things that you um referenced which was in addition to what you're doing those conversations with children make sure that they were in the right interventions things like that um we also had families who didn't understand what it meant right and so I think um
024from my perspective it will be if we make this change we're just the intentionality around how do we engage families if we put this on a report card, it's different. So, what does that mean for families? How do we do it in a way that's safe um and helpful and not um not overwhelming and discouraged? We we we um so we had families who just read it, they understood it, and they kind of acted upon it. But we did have lots of families who didn't understand because juxtaposing [clears throat] the I have an A and I am three years you know behind in in mathematics is a hard thing to reconcile. Learning is a journey and so if I got an A I'm coming to school and I'm completing my assignments and I'm doing well
025on my assignments. I might not be there yet but then um to see that right right beside. So I just um would advocate around intentional engagement um with the change to help people understand what it means. >> Yeah. Um so my mind kind of goes to to data literacy and which data when and with what context. So as both a parent and an educator like the more information we can get into [clears throat] our famil family's hands like that is that is power for our families. I think where my mind goes is, you know, looking at these charts, you know, the and the discord between achievement and grades is there in some places, but what about growth? I actually think that's a different and and in my mind in a lot of ways more important
026measure of how performance is going in class, but that adds a whole another additional layer. How are we measuring growth? What does it mean? Are we talking about um I Ready and Map benchmark data? Are we talking about state testing data? Are we talking about all of the above? Because that then becomes how do you explain this? You know, the numbers are very different. What they mean is very different. Um, I think this is a a fantastic opportunity. Um, I am definitely for getting this data in the hands. But I think the the way we've been doing it is in the context, you know, really around conferences and parent conferences where they can have that conversation and get the context around the data for students. And I think that there is something that is lost
027and I'm I am hesitant to put out achievement data without also putting out growth data for students because if we have a student who's been limited for a very long time but is growing by leaps and bounds according to their data and like that's amazing and that is that is a story that needs to be told and that is a success and that is something families need to understand versus we can have a student who's accomplished an advance on the state test every year and it's kind of losing ground, you know what I mean? So, I don't know. Um, it's hard to pick the right data when and I think no matter what is decided, there will be unintended consequences. That does not mean that it shouldn't happen. Like, I really like I love this
028conversation and I love the idea, especially, you know, as a parent, my second grader took a standardized test for the first time this year and I was so proud of myself. I waited two whole days before I emailed the teacher and asked for the family report to be sent home to me because like I had to know um how she did and she did. uh her score was much it was lower than I anticipated, but that I think speaks to the power of standardized testing, right? Because then you're able to say like, oh, I didn't think her math instruction was great last year and now I have confirmed that maybe her math instruction wasn't great last year. Um, so I I there's just a lot of layers to work through and I think a lot
029of things to consider. Um and then I think just even understanding you know if we give a growth metric how do we give directions to understand that growth metric in a way that will work for families. So um I just think there's a lot of layers. >> So combining both of that in terms of there is a lot of data that'd be important to be able to show and it and to board or to chair Lindy's point that sometimes it's difficult to absorb all of that as a parent and take that into a single pain. Right. the the question of in terms of is it technically possible. Uh it is right. So there's a couple of different options and the ways that we could do that. Um of course some of them more resource or
030management overhead intensive to accomplish in creating an entirely new reporting platform. Right. But it could scale or scope from we add something to the current report card which is limited to kind of what the data set we have there. We also have, like you said, the I Ready reports that are going out that something could be similarly created or looked at from a how do we get a put all of that into a single pane summary that's more um user friendly for the parents or it could be creating something entirely new that's a separate report card. So we have lots of options as to how we do it and how intensive it would be to put all that together. But I think the the real question would be how do we come to terms with
031what does what what are the criteria and interpretations of X data set do we boil down to whatever we're trying to provide as a single pane view for that parent. Um so that becomes really where the challenge would be from a technical standpoint not just in implementing here's the paper here's the report that has the checkboxes. I will take a moment just as a side celebration I suppose um you know from an assessment standpoint the scores and stuff are typically available in focus so all of that data also down to a much finer granular level of even the assignment level if assuming they've been put in matched with canvas etc um are available in focus uh right now we do have a little right around 40% of our parents who have an active account in
032focus which obviously not where we'd like it to be we want it to be 100 but it is is a celebration because that far exceeds any peak we ever had over the past 15 years with Power School considerably by 10%ish points of the number of parents who are actively in focus. So I mean our intent to this point has been to drive families and parents to that resources. You get to see everything. Um and then you kind of get to select and and go down what do you want to see and what do you not. So that also would be an alternative or an option in terms of how we're providing this information to parents. Well, this is just I think really really helpful. Um uh I can talk about this stuff forever and I
033just want to look at the rest of our agenda for a second. So we we've got um we go until 11. Is that right? >> 11:15. >> 11 or 11:15. 11. >> Okay. I kind of live by whatever is on my my calendar. This one says 11:15. Great. So it's 11:15. Um, so we got an hour. Um, and we do need to talk about eval and some other things. So maybe we can spend maybe 10 minutes on this um, uh, 15 max and then we got to hit some other things. Um, do you have thoughts, Ker? You want to share? >> I I do. Um, I I do appreciate, um, Mr. Galahu for speaking about the implementation piece is kind of a simple process and so we have the capabilities to do that. Um I
034am really leaning into what uh Miss Campbell uh have stated and just really the intentionality around it and also the layers that we've talked about. And so I honor that perspective. I really do because I don't think any of us have the the intent to create any type of harm. I think it is definitely with the focus of making sure that we are um ensuring the well-being of our students as well as their parents but again also wanting to make sure that there is that level of awareness um and in a friendly um but uh transparent way right to one have the conversation have those data literacy talks um I know that it is on focus but The reality is with focus, there are still challenges I think that we're all trying to navigate with,
035you know, focus. I do know the report card is sent home, right? And some sometimes it's easier to just, you know, access it from having the physical copy of the report card for maybe our uh our uh parents that are maybe caregivers, right? Um it's easier to navigate maybe a paper copy versus the the technology piece. Um, but I I really want us to be able to again have the conversations and just speaking from a perspective of a parent, those um assessments are in different spaces and they're not communicating with one another consistently. And so how can we create that alignment to again not create any harm but to make sure that our students and our parents are aware with the intention and the focus of this is to help us strive to get to
036where we want to be. Um so that's just kind of the space that I'm landing. Um and so you all are the experts in this. Um I do I do love that we talk about like those data literacy conversations. I know in the previous district that I was in, not only would we have um provide them with the the um information about how their achievement is going and you know what they scored on their assessments, but we regularly frequently had those data literacy conversations about this is what you know the um I Ready score is about, this is what the MAP benchmark is about, this is what the state testing is about. so that when it's time for those, you know, results to come out, people are informed and also you still have those conversations
037after, right? So, that's that's where I'm landing and what I'm hoping to see so that we can again have it in that one um said space um to make sure that everyone is on one accord. And uh Superintendent Murphy, you talked about that other schools um are modeling this example. Um can you speak to maybe um what you've noticed or what other um maybe um superintendents or administrators have discussed with that particular experience? Like has it been helpful? Has it been challenging? >> Definitely challenging. I think just to the point you're um talking about making sure you bring all of those data points together and that people can really understand the why >> behind it. That is critically important. But I do think that parents appreciate understanding and knowing that. And I think I think
038also that it helps to understand what kind of assignments might be coming home uh with children um for homework and how they relate to that preparation uh that might be needed to make sure that they are progressing. >> Thank you for that. So that's all that I have. >> Thank you. Um I had a couple things. Um um a little embarrassed I had not thought about this. Um but I think it's I think it's a really good point. Um I think uh I hear you saying both and not instead of because I think there's a there's there is thinking about as a parent truly like both of those have been important for each of my two kids in different ways. Um so I think that's great. Uh, I have a little bit of a worry
039about how complicated it's going to be to do the growth one. Even even just this one like I mean you and I were emailing about how to do this D like almost a year ago. Um, and then like it it was so hard to figure out where we could go within the data we have just to see this picture, you know. And so I guess the worry I have is if it's that hard on achievement and it's going to be even harder to get the growth stuff right. My big worry is that we let complexity get in the way of doing something, you know, and I think just my my bias is like we do something sooner that is accurate, right? like but maybe um I don't want to give parents inaccurate information um but
040I'd rather give um accurate information quickly while we try to figure out a way of doing it if it takes maybe it's not as complicated as I think it's going to be but that's like one of the things on my mind >> so I think it is as complicated as you're thinking the other thing I think we're going to run into is it's going to be a timing issue just with when if we're talking about state tests when state tests are released those scores are actually released to get them into focus but as to when report cards go home. So then we're talking about achievement data that's a year and a rears if not more. Do we want one year of data? Do we want multiple? If we are talking about some sort of benchmark
041data in there for our tested grades, we don't give we don't mandate spring tests because that's a ton of testing for our kids and so uh we're trying to reduce testing fatigue. So then if we're talking about growth, we actually don't have a full year picture of growth. We've got fall to winter which gives us an indication but we don't have fall to spring necessarily. So there are additional layers of complexity for sure. Um I I hear your point and I think I do think that this is like a great next step to getting better information into the hands of our families. I just don't know how to do it [laughter] right the right way, you know. Um, I mean, honestly, it it's not the paper copy, but I do think maybe I'm going to
042throw this out there as a potential first step. You know, a test history is available in the parent portal in focus and it's got all of the metrics in there, including growth metrics >> to refer them back to them. >> And I'm wondering if if we just and this has actually been on the radar for a while, just to create like a in assessment interpretation guide for families. Um, you know, there'd probably need to be seven versions of it and Emily would need to tell me it's too complicated because more is more with me with it sometimes. But I do think we could create a companion guide for interpreting test history. And then you're going to be able to see state assessment data. You're going to be able to see the benchmarks with their OST
043projections on it as well as growth data all in one line. And it gives you a kid's whole test history. I'm actually wondering if that is both the path of least resistance logistically as well as giving families the full picture. It is a lot though. >> So this would just I'm I'm following [clears throat] this would be I'm a parent and this is all just in pencil but like I'm a parent. I get a report card. It has the same grade I'm used to seeing. None of that would change. In addition, it would have a reading or math or both grade level that would there would be we figure that out somehow and then there would be like a like a way to go learn more about growth by viewing things that are in focus.
044Is that what you're saying? >> So we could I is a criterion reference assessment and so it can give a grade level placement for students based on their performance. The challenge is going to be again if we're talking about spring, a lot of kids don't take it in the spring and so we're talking about a a winter dead data point at that point and then MAP for high school students does do not have the equivalent of that. It's only a norm reference test. >> Yeah. Yeah. So it sounds like again the logistical piece of what information how do we make all of this you know work in tandem is really what >> well and I think the other advantage of directing families to focus then is that once the data is available it it updates
045in real time and they can see it in real time and we can even do like a blast out to families once state test scores are loaded in the spring like your state if your student took a state assessment it is now in focus please check the parent portal use this interpretation guide to understand your students scores. >> Um, and we can just do a communication blast around that. >> In addition to that, because I am really interested, as you talked about, Miss Vargo, the data literacy conversations. I know how powerful uh and impactful that um is. Is so this is you uh Miss Campbell, superintendent. Um, is there um opportunity for us to begin to do that in a more robust way within the district? Um, I do know that um I I can't
046say that I've necessarily seen it on um a school level within our district. I I know we have the conversations in the classroom like you said, parent teacher conference, but is there a way that we can begin to have those conversations um in a more robust manner so that again um we all are informed? we all are knowledgeable about what this data means. And then I think it helps create that level of um not only just the understanding but also the the I guess the the more buyin right to help us be um you know working collectively towards the same goals and same outcomes. So I find that really curious because just last Friday we had our internal retreat where we had everyone who supports instruction at the table to learn about just what we're
047talking about. Um so that would be the start of it and then step two is those people who learned uh deeply during the next principal meeting it gets ingrained with the principal etc etc. Sidebar, listening to this conversation, what it reminds me of, and not to do it exactly like they do it, but um Chrissy Reeves, our um director of student services, wasn't able to be here, but sounds like a really great conversation to have with her because that's what they do with our students with disabilities in terms of measuring and monitoring their progress and their growth. So they have in addition to what's going on in the classroom and a report card, they also have um a different report that is given at the same time for progress. So they have specific IEP goals
048and teachers are tailing and sharing with parents how is the kid progressing with those goals. So, not exactly the same thing, but I think it's worth having the conversation to see how can we marry those schools of thought to get what you guys are asking about. >> Um, Emily, you had something you wanted to say a second ago. >> Thank you, Superintendent. Sorry. I was just going to add on to um some of what Miss Fargo said about um how might we put language on the report card um at certain times during the year? How do we engage families so they know that this is going to be there at certain times of the year? So um like quarter 1 could have our fall benchmark data. um quarter three could have our winter benchmark data
049because se second quarter the windows just don't close soon enough. Um and then how can we do some of that like working with schools um providing some protocols around parent teacher n parent teacher conferences, family um teacher conferences um have some videos and things like that for families of how do you use this? So, um, but this idea to take them back to the growth because I think growth is important but complex. Um, and it and I think less is more in this case. >> I agree. I just default to more is more. I advocate for more is more. >> And I think too, um, did I cut you off, Miss Campbell? >> What? >> Did I cut you off? No. >> No. I was I was going to say I I think um I
050want to make sure we save time for the things I was talking about this morning, but um I want to make sure we get our altitude right as a board committee because you all are going to be better situated to figure out how to do all this, you know, like I don't want us to get too far into the weeds, but where I I think what's what's what the right spot for us I would offer is some policy language that says with blank frequency report cards that students students receive will at a minimum also include blank, you know. Um, and then if if if you all wanted to do more frequently than that or like figure out I don't know like various ways of doing that and which test to like great like that sounds
051like a great thing for someone not named me to to figure out, you know, but but but I do I I think that the the last two things I wanted to ask about this is >> um I'd like to figure out how we should engage the board at the next meeting on this because I'd like to bring this to I think Phyllis, correct me if I'm wrong, but like we have we We have an early November. I think we scheduled this to be on Cathy's birthday uh on on purpose, right? Um um because of the Thanksgiving holiday, but we we have a board meeting between now and the next policy >> and the 24th. >> So I think just the 10th meeting then we have Yeah. So I I think it would be wise for
052us to bring this issue to I know I know Kareem's heard about it but like Jim and Brandon and make sure everybody's got a chance to I'm forgetting somebody Eve. Um >> the uh so we do that on the 10th. Um, and then I the other thing I think we should try to figure out so that we can talk to them about this is I'm not saying we'll do this, but if we wanted to be as aggressive as possible on timeline, what is the earliest report card we could send home to parents that has reading level and math level on it? I would not be comfortable being able to set an ETA without extensive conversations with multiple teams to kind of come up because again we would have to even define what the criteria is
053to develop that. How do we get that implemented into a reporting structure? There would be way too much to be able to estimate at this kind of an early point of the conversation. C >> could we have that number by the meeting on the 10th? >> Um possibly. >> Uh how about by the policy committee meeting on the 14th? >> I like that better. >> Okay. [laughter] I think like for this to be real, we have to talk about when it would happen, you know, cuz like what what I the other thing I'm worried about is it just keeps getting like great thing to do someday, but when is someday, you know? >> One other thing that I would and I don't see Mike here, so I'm going to do my best impression of Treasury
054Augustine. The question inevitably be, you know, giving we're talking about intensity of discussions, development, platform, reporting, even though some of it's smaller than others. The question would be, is there a cost to this? And I would believe the answer would be yes. there would likely need to be funds available for this. >> That's that's good to know. Thank you for bringing that into the discussion. Um so, board member Lindy, as you talked about um from a policy lens, um the frequency in which this information is um reported out. Again, I also if you know would like to see from a policy lens that there is regular data literacy conversations or um discussions so that we're just not providing again that could be harmful. We're just providing information with no context and so making sure that
055we're doing our due diligence to make sure that that um um awareness and knowledge is there. >> Yeah, that um thank you. I wrote I wrote down data literacy. Um I I think um just to close this out, unless other people have other other comments, I think what'll happen next is um could um Phyllis, can I ask for your help um seeing if we can get this on the agenda for the 10th so we can talk about it with the full board. Um and then I I think what I'd like to be able to do is come to this meeting on the the next policy meeting assuming the board uh I mean we've already had a majority of board members when we include Kareem. I I think this will go in this way. I could
056be wrong. Um but that we can come to the 14th and look at some um language together. Um and look at maybe here's a here's one way that this could work that is thoughtful about timeline, thoughtful about cost, um thoughtful about length and complexity, data literacy, all those things. Does that sound okay? Okay. Anything else on this topic? Okay. Moving on. We are on policy 5120, enrollment in neighborhood schools. Thank you. Uh so this policy was carried over from uh I believe the um August meeting to the September. We didn't have a chance to discuss in in September. Uh the two changes the the one change since the August meeting is at the back. Uh there was a request, thank you, to include uh the neighborhood enrollment policy will be reviewed by the board on
057an annual basis. That's the only other change we've added since August. Welcome. Any questions on that policy? >> Yes. So, >> is it all right if I share a couple thoughts while you look, um I think this is great. Uh the only thing I I I um this is great if I think my my my concern last time was um what if this is leading to some unintended consequences around um uh even access to different neighborhood schools? I don't think that it will, but like we should check. I think this could be fine. My worry is um is there is there a simple edit of like a word or two that we could do that makes it clear that the administration should be forming an opinion over the course of the year about how it's
058working and that like when the board reviews it, it'll be based on like reflections, observations. I I don't want to get over scripted. I just want the administration to come with having done some thinking about this. >> Does that make sense? >> Yeah. and and I don't think I don't think there's any shift in the administration's goal to ensure equity of access to schools throughout the district. That that is that remains the the goal. I I think there's some concern about the use of the phrase computerized lottery system. that that suggests in some ways I think >> a lack of access to you know that that you'll be you won't get the right lottery bowl and you won't be able to access the school that you you think is best for your children. Um have
059I said that wrong? >> I agree with that 100%. But we were trying to eliminate the hangup about have I got to stand in line. I have to wait. I have to, you know, we're trying to eliminate that and we're trying to make sure that if this is a school that you want your child to go to, whatever we can do to make that happen is what we're interested in. >> If it would be helpful to your point to say that this annual review will be will surround ensuring equity of access to schools that that that >> I don't think that's the >> that's great. Can we just like add that sentence or something? Um, and I think, um, >> give me just 10 seconds. >> Can Are [clears throat] you able to say that
060again, Dan? Yeah. Do you want to say >> No, you stay on that for just a second so you can make sure it reads or it's notated the way. So I I mean off the top of my head, the neighborhood enrollment policy will be reviewed by the board on an annual basis to ensure that families have continued equity of access to the district's. Could you could we just say um by the board and the administration of course like I because I think I what I what I want is a discussion that's based on the administration's observations and reflections um uh maybe data over the I need to write all this in there but just um so that they're thinking about it on an ongoing basis and I think that actually gets at 100% of my
061concern. >> Got it. >> I think that's good. Um u so thank you for adding that. I just to the point of equity and this is not necessarily anything that needs to be changed in the policy or how it's written but I'm just trying to process the selection process. So when families are selecting their school of choice, um they may or may not have access to that school based off of these what four three or four criteria that's listed. So >> I mean like the overall >> so this is this is not the magnet school policy which continues the same uh priority you know we we have not changed the priorities in any way in the magnet enrollment policy. So this is the neighborhood enrollment policy >> and we have not changed in any way
062the board's policy which is if you live within that neighborhood zone you have access to your neighborhood [clears throat] school. The question becomes there there sometimes are vacancies vacant seats outside of your neighborhood school and we've at the time we developed this policy we put together some priorities as to for those vacancies outside of your neighborhood how would those be um >> that's exactly right and so again preferring CPS resident students with a sibling enrolled that was always important to the board >> uh to maintain families in the same school so we're not we're not changing the priorities parties here either. >> Again, I think I think the language around computerized lottery system >> again I don't know how else to say it starts to suggest to or or gives the impression that if you
063get the wrong ping pong ball, you're out of luck. And and I do not think that's the experience that our families have walking into customer >> care. And and I think that's the re the reason for the request for the updated language. And I I don't want to put any words in the superintendent's mouth. >> Okay. And I recall earlier this year um and I know of a couple of instances where there were kids in a neighborhood school that maybe it was not their neighborhood school. Is this the concern at this point or >> um I'm I'm just thinking about so that yeah that's an example. Um, I'm just receiving feedback about the selection process, recognizing that some families may have um selected a particular neighborhood school or selected a particular school which was but
064they were in a enrolled in a different school that was not even an option or a preference. So, I'm just trying to figure out what that selection process entails. >> Yeah. So, my I'm a little confused because it's a neighborhood school. So, a if you live in that neighborhood, you should be able to go to that school. >> No question. >> So, I'm I'm not aware of specific. So, um not to push you there. So, and I'm not just speaking about like if it's the particular neighborhood school, and this is something we can talk about offline, but I was just trying to again get a clear understanding about the selection process um and if it did in fact create that um equitable access to the schools in which the families desire for their children to
065attend. That's that's really all it was. >> So, just for clarity, Miss Map, if I live in Rosemont, I can't think of an address. That's a terrible example. If I live in Roseline, I want to go to Roseline school. I go to Roseline school. >> Right. >> Yeah. So, >> and so if they live in Roseline, but they say for instance, don't want to go to Roseline and maybe they want to go to, >> I don't know, Amse. >> Well, Am is different. How about Bond Hill? A different neighborhood school. >> Okay. a different neighborhood school than what's happened before is depending on um space available >> then that would be fine. >> The problem that happened earlier this year is um they had moved from the neighborhood but we had conversations to keep them
066in that school at the parents request because they had been a student >> in that school. >> Okay. >> So Amia is a little different because it's a a magnet. Yes ma'am. And so but for the magnet it is still the expectation that they have to go through the magnet >> and it's a lottery though right >> well we are calling it a selection I'm selecting confused so this I'm sorry I am selecting and applying so to speak >> to go to ami but we are eliminating standing in line and waiting a turn and only the people who can >> stand in you know those kind of things. Yeah, I and I get that. And I'll close by saying this cuz I thought that was done away with a long time ago, but you're saying
067there still the perception by that that's what they would have to do when we said magnet. >> Okay. So, >> all right. Thank you. I'm sorry to take us off track, but I just need an understanding >> for myself. [snorts] >> So, does that get us a spot on this one? >> Yes. Move forward. >> That's great. Let's do it. >> Consent. Um, I feel like we have to take it out of consent because we talked about it for so long. I hope that it is not a long discussion, but I feel like it would only be fair >> to do that with the full board. >> Um, and I promise that I will do everything I can to make it go as quickly as possible. [laughter] [clears throat] >> I might slow it up,
068but it's okay. >> We we'll hit the sweet spot. We will hit the sweet spot. >> Next. Yes. Keep going, please. >> Yeah. Uh policy 5130 was also on the August agenda, carried over from the September agenda. Uh this is relating to withdrawal from school. Uh this is really just uh updating um no substantive change. It's been reviewed by Kathy Spelman in research evaluation performance and accountability. Uh she added some thoughts. Um I I got to mention too, I believe Stephanie Scott is online and she she did the updating. So, if I'm saying anything drastically wrong, she'll, uh, I hope jump in and correct me. Um, but, uh, no, not a substantive change, just updating to reflect current law. Welcome your questions. Uh, I don't have any other questions on this one. Uh, Kendra, is
069there anything that you would like to ask about? >> No, I think it was pretty standard from what I did. we just that the um the parent or guardian would have to uh withdraw the student um if there was some disciplinary concerns um what the super what the expectation would be for um the withdrawal process. So I think it was pretty clear. >> And did you say Dana this is a state law? >> It it's updated. Yeah. I mean important. For example, bottom of the second paragraph talks about a student shall not be withdrawn until the student's new school district has enrolled the student. This is >> a really critical point to um kind of the uniform missing children act where Yep. you got to make sure that that student is enrolled in a new
070school before you withdraw them from our school. It it tracks students from school to school. Yep. That's exactly right. So >> yeah, that's great. >> Um >> move forward. Yeah. >> Consent. >> Yes, please. >> Thank you. Uh, next policy is 6320, purchasing of goods and services. My good friends, uh, COO Chris Birkhart and Kanda Wilson from purchasing are with us as well. Uh, I believe this was added at the request of the policy committee at the end of the um, August meeting. So, >> I think we had some You want to take this up? >> Yeah. So, um, thank you for being here today. Uh at our last policy meeting, there was a community community member that um had concerns about how small businesses, small vendors, uh minority um business owners would be able
071to in fact um be able to become a vendor of the district. And so one of the things um that was shared was um there's a lot of work that is being contracted out um and it was dealing with transportation. And there was a lot of work that was being contracted out through the major companies like First Student or UTS um which ultimately limits the small businesses or small vendors um from being able to have access um and some of the barriers that were noted was either due to insurance um due to the um requirements around um the the maintenance of the transportation. And so ultimately just wanted to bring this to policy because this is not my you know uh my scope of practice. You all are the experts in this. Um but I
072uh wanted to make sure that I was doing my due diligence and raising the concern um because some individuals may feel that there's uh limited access and I know that we have policy around it to um ensure that um you know there's this point system where we have local vendors where we um make sure that we're honoring our minority um and women business owners. But um I think from the perspective of Miss Stalworth was that it is very challenging because they uh may only have access to being a contractor with the bigger companies and they would never be able to I guess compete to even be able to go through the purchasing you know um process to become a vendor. So really trying to get more information about that, understanding more of um how um
073how do we ensure that there's that level of equity um in place so that we can um honor those um entities as well. >> Great. Thank you. There's a lot to unpack within within what you just said, but I I'll please keep me honest. If I miss a piece of it, please ask me again about it. Um, so the purchasing department has been working really diligently. I would say uh since about June and July, we really wanted to be um make the process for vendors or folks becoming a vendor with the district uh an easier process because we knew it was cumbersome. As we looked at the website and as we looked at where folks had to click and what they wanted to do, it wasn't very turnkey like you couldn't follow step by step.
074So, we challenged the the purchasing team to put basically a one-pager together. How do you become a vendor at CPS? And so, they've done that. We've actually uh rolled it out. We're actually kicking the tires on it as we speak. Um it came out previous to this this last uh conversation about purchasing and we hope to revamp the entire website. So, it is a much easier process. There's really three ways that folks can become a vendor. One is there's a vendor opportunity form that uh is on the website that they can just fill out at any time during the course of the year to say, "Hey, here's the good and services that I have." And that goes into our database and we will review that to see if there's a match, if there's anyone saying,
075"Oh, I have crayons and is there a need for crayons?" So, we match those together. The second is a a request by a school or department needing a specific service. So if we know that um the legal department needs red pens, we will then go out and source red pens and if they're in the database, we obviously want to get them uh there. The other is the the formal RFP and bid process which goes through ion wave. So it's a formal process. So for example, if we are formally requesting bus service contracts, that would be through ion wave. Folks can register for that at any time. they can pick what type of commodities they would like to uh get information on. So they can choose buses, vans, they can choose chemicals, they can choose lawnmowing,
076they can choose pens, they can choose any of those. And that's the third way that folks can become a vendor. With each one of those pathways, there's only four steps. So it's pretty detailed. If this is the pathway that you're going, here are the four steps to become a vendor. If the second one's a pathway, here are the four steps to become a vendor. So we've made it very easy and then also we've had what the what the outcome is after each one of those steps. So if you are you know just filling out the v vendor opportunity form um after you complete the form this is what's going to happen and then step two this is what's going to happen. So we tried to make it turnkey. We didn't get it all in one
077page. It's a page and a quarter but um we do have that and it's going to be updated on our website as well. So that's part of it. In relation to the uh folks who have uh both come to the board meeting and told us about the process, um in relation to transportation specifically, we have been reaching out to as many vendors as we can because we know we need uh folks to help us in transportation. Um all three of our yellow bus vendors are really right now at their limits. Uh I just came back from Columbus uh having a meeting yesterday with folks from across the state and transportation continues to be one of those hot button issues at every district across the state of Ohio and really across the country. Um there's not
078enough buses, there's not enough drivers, and the infrastructure of how Ohio is set up doesn't lend itself to have a whole bunch of new folks wanting to jump into that business. Um we did meet with uh at least two individuals. We uh I met with two individuals with the director of transportation. I believe she met with a third and we are looking at what are those processes that are needed. One of the things that came up in that meeting was the need for insurance and that is not something that the district can just wave. That is a national requirement by the Federal uh motor carrier uh safety administration. And I believe the coverage amount is $5 million. Now, when you hear that uh you know, everyone starts to gasp. Uh they don't need to have
079$5 million sitting in a bank account. They need to purchase a $5 million policy, which roughly costs about $5,000 for the year. um based on how many buses you have, the driving record of those individuals, your safety uh over the past 3, 5, 7, 10 years. Um so all that goes into that price. So I don't want to say that's the exact price based on the situation. Um having so those are for any buses or any vehicles that carry more than 15 passengers. Anything less than that is a million and a half. Uh just so everyone's on the same page, if if we were to do this within our school district, we would be exempt. But because we outsource it, those companies are not part of CPS and therefore are not exempt from that. So
080if we were to set up our own bus fleet, we would not need that $5 million worth of coverage. Um which which is a little pro problematic for, you know, folks who are just starting out. However, if they're if they're really looking at uh buses that are over 15 passengers, you're looking at a bus that's roughly $160,000. So, adding $5,000 to that. Not saying it's not a lot of money, but in perspective, um buying the bus uh is is the the bigger bigger lift in this. Um, we think that a lot of the vendors who are available right now are looking more for our extracurricular activities and those types of things for smaller groups of students. So, we're talking about less than 15. Uh, none of the vendors that we talked to had a yellow
081bus or could get access to a yellow bus um to do that kind of work. So, we're we're happy that there's folks out there who want to do that work and and one of our vendors started out as just transporting for field trips and now has become a vendor with, you know, 60 buses in in their fleet. So, I would say this is a growing opportunity for folks as well. >> Did I answer at least most of those? >> Yes, absolutely. That's I think [clears throat] great information that you shared and again when you presented the um policy to us last year I was like oh this is great and the different points and I thought you know was really um showing um the true commitment to um equity. Um and so when it was
082presented to me like I said all I can do is share the information and make sure that we have the conversation about it. And so, um, I'm glad that you really highlighted, um, what the process entails, um, and also what, um, opportunities are potentially available for those smaller businesses and, um, vendors that are looking to, um, be a part of, um, providing services for the district. And so um will there be you said the information will be online. It will be on the um on the website and it will kind of drill down maybe more succinctly how people are able to become a vendor and give a snapshot of those different scenarios in a sense. >> Yes, absolutely. And I can share that the the document uh with the with the policy committee. Uh we
083can um send that out to everyone so everyone can see it. Yes, there'll be four steps within each one of those processes and it's it's it's really um if you want to do this then you click here and then it gives you those four steps. So, it's going to be really um user friendly and and sadly our our previous process wasn't as user friendly. So, um, this was this was work that we were doing anyway, but it is good that we had, you know, the other folks that we can kind of field test it to make sure it works the way we intended versus some unintended consequences that that might happen because we're not actually on the opposite side >> trying to fill it out. You know, we think it makes sense, but does do
084the folks filling it out think it makes sense? >> Yeah. And I think that was the um concern that was being raised and so happy to recognize that we the policy uh is well written and we're just working on the procedural aspect to make it um you know uh strengthened. So thank you. >> Yeah. and and Karand is here with me and we we've really been diligent about looking at and I know we're going to talk about this in in some of the guardrail conversations but local vendors, minority vendors, womenowned businesses and really um taking a a breakdown of each of those and where can we grow each one of those areas. So, um, you'll see her face a lot more as we as we grow this out and and really make sure that those
085folks are represented in our purchasing power within CPS. >> Perfect. Thank you. And I'll make sure that I connect you with uh the community member that came to the policy meeting as well. >> We we we actually >> you had a chance to >> I actually talked to her myself. >> Oh, hey. and [laughter] al along with uh uh uh director Williams, we had a conversation and so she's actually getting us pricing on what she can uh do. We actually met or had a email conversation last week as a followup and she was waiting to get uh uh some information back on her side. So, we're just waiting for the information to come to us. >> Okay, perfect. And just to be clear, this was not this conversation was not about um anyone becoming a
086vendor. It was about it. Are we creating a access, right? And and does the policy reflect what we're actually doing? And so, but I'm glad that you were able to have the conversation um and identify some areas that we are able to um improve upon. And so, that that sounds great. >> Thank you. All right. Anything else on 6320? So, no changes recommended. Um, we feel good about current setup. Thank you. Um, let's move on. So, on on other topics that were submitted by board members, I tried to group these into some categories uh because it it looked like a really long list of stuff. It's really, I think, one set of things that go together, which is around evaluation policies. And then we had two other requests um from uh Moffett and Bolton. Um
087and I think hopefully we can get to all these things. Um so on the treasures evaluation um the um Mike is out with CO today so feel better Mike. Hope you feel better quickly. Um he did send a great summary of the discussion that they had in finance. Um uh and um I think Dan, I don't know if you I'm what I'm I'm happy to share with the committee what Mike shared with me. Um and I may just send it to you all so that you all could write uprighted version if if people like what they said. So the the I think the the finance committee has historically been the group that has done a lot of the evaluation of the treasurer or at least some. I think it's maybe varied yeartoyear. Um but there
088is an interest in [clears throat] I think bringing the timeline of the treasures evaluation um of of updating the timeline in such a way that it is still consistent with state law but that just makes a little bit more sense for the rhythm of the year here. And so their their recommendation was that um the evaluation be completed by January 31st with a midyear by the end of August. Mike said this will allow the board to have data for the evaluation and not overlap with the superintendent's evaluation. I think that sounds wise and great. Um they want to keep the 60% goals, 30% standards, 10% midyear setup that we have with the superintendent. Um there are um he has a piece in here that says the budget, finance, and growth committee request that the evaluation
089begin with the committee and then move to the full board. This is not something I have a super strong opinion about myself. I'm not sure if um uh Kendra you do or or all of these things to me seemed um pretty reasonable. Uh we just need to get them in there. Um, do you have any questions about I'm going to forward this to you, Kendra, and to Dan. Okay. Um, that way you've got it. >> Um, >> and we can then go >> um from there. >> The only thing that I uh would ask about, and I think you were discussing it, but I probably just missed it in the transition, um, was about the March one timeline. I know that at our uh retreat there was discussion. >> Okay. So, and we're changing it
090to >> so the the recommendation out of finance was that the final eval be completed by the end of January each year. >> Okay. >> With the midyear happening at the end of August. >> Okay. >> And I think what they were trying to do was make sure they have the right data but not overlap with the superintendent email. So we're not trying to do too many things at once. >> Okay. Sounds great. I thought that was thoughtful. >> Yeah. And um I think that's that's good too with the um you said mid year by the end of August which is um pretty much kind of right after completing the um budget. So I thought that was good. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean I can certainly imagine other ways of doing it. >> Um but
091like they know more about this than I do. They I'm I'm happy to kind of defer to their recommendation. >> Absolutely. Um, is there anything from the administration? I know I know Mike's out, but >> yeah, if you could forward that uh those notes, we can um put this in a form for you to consider on November 14th. >> Great. >> Okay. >> Um, so then the other one on here was the other uh report to the board, which is the uh uh chief audit executive. Um, and the note I have from Lauren here is that um, she doesn't have any I really hope I'm getting this right. Doesn't have any changes that she's recommending to the current policy. Is that right? >> I think that's my understanding. Also, she >> Yeah, I'm gonna if
092you give me just one second. I we we did have an email about this and I want to make sure Okay. Um, >> so the the current charter really puts the internal auditor's evaluation in the hands of the audit committee for what it's worth. >> Board gives the audit committee the authority to complete the internal auditor's evaluation on their behalf. >> Yeah. So Lauren wrote me and said um based on conversations with the finance committee, they did not have any suggested edits or changes to the process for my evaluation. Um yeah. So she she she wrote a memo to us. I think I think this is on board docs, right, Phyllis? The memo maybe could pull that up, Rob. Um, okay. So, she says here, um, at the board retreat in October, um, she presented
093this memo, the board expressed comfort with the existing goal setting and evaluation procedures, noting the process remains effective and consistent with board policy 6836. Um the only recommendation from the board was to adopt a resolution each year formally approving the auditor's goals mid-year evaluation and annual evaluation. This minor procedural enhancement does not require any revisions to the existing policy. So I think I would like to defer to her recommendation here. Um I think we can start doing that annual um uh approval of goals in in annual evaluation. That sounds like a healthy thing to do and we can do it without rewriting any of our policies. So, let's let's do both good things would be my recommendation. Any but any voices of disscent? >> None here. >> Yep. >> Okay. So, I'm going to check
094this off. Thank you. I know [snorts] you're not here, Lauren, but thank you for all your hard work. We appreciate it. >> Okay, Lauren. Thank you. If we're doing anything wrong, come off mute and tell us. But, uh otherwise, we're going to uh say thank you. Um, okay. So, now we're on the last one here, which is general counsel evaluation. And so, I know that, um, uh, Eve sent an email to me. Um, and I think she also may have sent it to others. Um, I think advocating that we, um, look a little differently at the, um, the general counsel's um, evaluation. Um, I know I have a couple of thoughts, but but Kendra, I'm happy to start with anything you have here, >> or I can go first. >> Yeah. >> So, I I
095I um my preference is that we we not have the council um evaluated by the board. My my my my personal um recommendation would be that the the council is a direct report to the superintendent that that stay the same. There may be a reason why the board at times wants to retain its own council. Um, one of the documents that's up on board docs. Um, if you go Rob to the You got it. Great. Um, this is just this is there's a a group that I've been a part of for a number of years called schoolboard partners. Um, I know that um, uh, Kareem and Mary are also members. Are you a member also? So like there's a number of us have done professional development with this group and their their model policy has
096the general counsel reporting to the superintendent and a and a procedure by which the board can also retain its own independent outside counsel. Um I think it I share this at the board retreat but I think it um there are seven of us. We often disagree. Uh I think it puts uh the superintendent already in a challenging position. Uh, and I think that, um, why why replicate that more than we need to, um, I just think it it, uh, given I think what other districts have done, given the recommendation from schoolboard partners, um, this is me just talking for myself, I'm I would not want to support changing the reporting structure for general counsel, but that's just where I am. Um so thank you for sharing the uh document from school board partners about um
097the reporting structure for general counsel um and also what that looks like for um one that reports to the board. And so at the retreat I did bring up um the concern around just like dual relationship um even like dual relationship. And I'm just thinking from a being that clinical lens and being a counselor myself, right? Right? If I'm um representing um a family, then it it's family counseling. I can't see someone outside of family counseling and do individual counseling, right? Because it it has those unattended um effects of dual relationship and it can present a conflict of interest. And so, um I am okay with uh general counsel continuing to report um directly to to the superintendent and the superintendent doing the evaluation of general counsel. My thought would be um what it would
098look like in the event that we as a board need to have um counsel, right? Because it may be something separate or it may be um the need to make sure that there is that separation cuz I wouldn't want to put Dan in that. I mean, you might feel like it's great Dan, but I wouldn't want you to be in that situation or anyone to be in that situation of feeling like they have to balance or juggle the two, right? because sometimes there may be a difference in terms of perspective and so to remove that level of duality. Um I think it can be beneficial. I do know that the cost um was a conversation at our retreat. Um so I mean I think that may be the maybe one of the main concerns and
099or um people may be feeling apprehensive about it. But I do think that um having general counsel um represent the district is helpful um and necessary and at the same time um having the option that um to have uh council represent uh the board a separate council represent the board. >> Uh thank you. Um >> and I I I like what how it's laid out from school board partners. >> Mhm. if I mean that's how I interpreted how it reads. [clears throat] >> Um any any responses from superintendent or from general counsel himself? Not to put you in a you know let's talk about this in public meeting. You know [laughter] >> it's got to be easy for anybody, >> right? >> Yeah. From my perspective, it's the pleasure of the board. Seriously. Um, when
100I talk to other superintendent, it's probably more so a structure that member map is describing where the general counsel is a contracted position regardless in the school district, various sizes who have shared this with me. I cannot imagine having um not having Dan Hoying here, a general counsel here on a daily basis. I can't imagine. But um I am fine with whatever direction you said >> probably more uh relevant to this gentleman here. >> No, I mean I would I would second that if the board is is uh feels it important to uh do some or all of the evaluation. I I no concern about that. Uh I I I only wanted to add that there have been a handful of situations through the years. I'm I'm I've now been at CPS for um 14
101years, almost 15 years, and general counsel is 10. There have been a handful of situations that have involved, you know, a a reason where I have gone to the board and said, I I believe you should um appoint outside counsel in this situation and the board has been very generous and saying that that's appropriate. Um, and so if there's ever a situation where I feel I'm conflicted in offering advice to the board, that would be my recommendation. And again, the board has responded to that favorably. So >> that's great. And I don't think we have anything in our current policies about outside counsel. There's like habits we've built over time, right? But there's nothing in there. >> There's nothing about outside counsel. There's very little about general counsel other than, you know, that the board
102can consult general counsel and things like that as well. >> Yeah. I I feel torn on this, Kendra, because I I um this is again just my perspective. I don't have an enormous amount of evidence that we have a problem to fix and we have lots of other things to work on. >> So, I would be okay saying to the board, we had this discussion. Here's how the committee feels at the moment. Let's move on. I also can understand if other board members and I'm I'm genuinely happy to get behind this. Um we should write a policy so that about outside council representing the board so that we have one. >> Um we could start with this one as a template. We could start somewhere else. Do you do you would you like to see
103us go in that direction? >> Yes. And again I don't think it's anything pertaining to the work that's already been done. um is no reflection of our general counsel. Again, I'm just always of the lens of trying to make sure that there's always that that uh that platform of equity and fairness and removing conflict. I mean, you all know as much as possible. Um I always try to stress that and so just seeing um just, you know, kind of requesting that similar alignment. >> Yeah. um it tracks to the purchasing stuff, it tracks to other things that have come up like is a process written down? >> Uh if not, why not? If it's written down, is it followed? You know, like I think that that that sounds good. So then maybe process suggestion would
104be could we put on our next policy committee agenda, a discussion of a draft uh general counsel policy, sorry, a draft outside board council policy. Um, I would offer as a starting place we use the schoolboard partners model policy. >> Yeah, I thought it was a great uh example. >> I I would I would also I'm um appreciate it if Dan anybody if you or your team in looking at it have ways to make it better or make it better given a CPS context. >> I think you know this is a national group. There may be some things that are different about us. We could talk about that again next time. >> Great. >> And and Dan, I appreciate you for sharing. Right. um acknowledging that if there was ever potential conflict, you know, the
105things that you have done to ensure that um it was handled with, you know, fairness. So, I appreciate that. >> Thank you. >> Um great. Okay. So, we're going to make it by 11:15. So, just so I know, Rob, do we have any speakers today? >> We do not have any speakers today. Okay. >> Great. So, we had a request from um member Moffett to talk about the um gun board policy uh on CPS property. >> Yes. >> Um and I have to be totally honest, I'm not 100% sure what the what the request was. Do you all have >> There was a I had a brief discussion with >> Oh, great. Um, so I and I'll just say kind of from our standpoint, the the weapons policy which is 7217, it is now posted
106on board ducks. I'm not sure it was earlier. Um, the the approach of the board and by the way, our uh security director, Mr. Bell, has joined us as well for the topic. The just for some history, the approach of the board since I've been involved with the policy committee has been to make the policy as strong as possible with respect to keeping weapons off of our campus. Uh the state law gives the board some ability to uh have some discretion over who may or may not have uh weapons on our policy on our campuses. And um our board's approach, at least as as long as I've been involved, has been to restrict that as much as possible with the exception of onduty law enforcement. That's the one exception to allowing uh uh weapons on
107our campus uh campuses and in schools. state law has changed over the years and there are two other exceptions in 2923122 that I'll just mention and and this has become a very complicated statute. The Ohio Buckeye Firearms Association refers to this statute as a hopeless morass which I I can understand they are in the business of making sure there's clear law about what people can and can't do with respect to firearm possession etc. the the two exceptions on that that have been added to state law are one um a permit holder in general may carry sort of through a school safety zone provided uh the permit uh holder does not enter a school building or onto school property. So, I'm imagining if you're walking down the sidewalk, uh Douglas is a good example and you
108are a permit holder and you're carrying your weapon, as long as you don't enter onto the campus or into a building, you haven't violated the law if you're just walking on the sidewalk and otherwise a permit holder. And the second exception is if you are uh driving through campus, that that is legal. If you leave your vehicle, you must uh the the gun must remain in the vehicle and and locked. So those are two exceptions that have been added over the years. Again, the approach of the board and the policy reflects otherwise a a very strict kind of the strictest standard against having weapons on campus. Anything you wanted to add? >> Yeah, agree. >> The question has been my >> So the question was related to uh from our uh agenda stand your ground.
109Staying your ground applies in vehicles and at a residence. It would not apply in in a school setting. >> Glad to answer any questions, but that just kind of summarizes where we are. >> I'm not That's helpful. Thank you. Um, no recommendations for a change to our current policy. >> Not from us except to advise the board that you have some discretion. I I think the the request from the board president was to at least share kind of what our standard is and what it what the law is in terms of um the board's discretion in this area. There is some discretion. Um the board could can define uh you know lawful permit holders as able to carry weapons on campus, in stadiums, through schools. Uh but that >> we could lower the threshold. We
110can't raise it any higher. >> You cannot. This is uh law ond duty law enforcement are the only uh individuals allowed to carry weapons on our campus. >> I I don't think anybody has I have just no interest in lower >> no interest at all. It's a no for [laughter] me. >> Thank you. >> All right. Um I uh I apologize everybody too on the on the last one here. Bylaws. I'm not exactly sure what uh Eve wanted us to look at with bylaws. I did text her, but I I did not do it early. Um, so she may not get back to me in time. Did you have a anything from her on that? >> There's two things I'd like to mention before we close. One is if if you're ready. >> No problem.
111I just wanted to ask um uh so um Karen, did you you're not online, but you are public. Did you have anything you'd like us to hear from the public today? >> Okay. And the other I think that's it. Staff and Okay. Yes, Dan. >> Okay. Two two additional things I'd just like to add to the November agenda. One is there were two updates we were uh making to the LSDMC policy that didn't get added to this um agenda but should be on the November. I don't want to lose them. It was it was related to our whole discussion of um the principal selection and things like that bringing some of those into the LSDMC policy. So we'll have that for you in November. >> Great. >> Second is a new item that I I
112included online on board docs our NSO policy. That's non-school organizations. It's 9212. This relates to booster clubs, parent groups, PTOs, um, alumni associations, friends of, etc. The reason I'd ask you to just take a quick look at that policy before November is there is and and I' I'd really like Mike, if not also Lauren, um, to be a part of the discussion as well. There has been a long-standing part of this policy uh the last two paragraphs that say uh that if a parent PTO friends of group is involving students in a fundraiser that that money still has to be deposited with the school. There is a long-standing perception in the district that that's state law or state rag. Lauren and I and Mike have looked at it and it is not. This is something
113that has been a CPS policy for a long time. uh but has caused confusion and and I don't think is consistent with certainly how other districts that there are other districts whose PTO's sponsor the walk-athon, the readathon, things like that, then accept those funds on on that are raised during that fundraiser and then spend it back on the school. I'd like us to consider at least I I don't know of any other school district in the state. We haven't been able to find one that has this strict of a policy that which says our current policy says if students are involved those funds must be deposited with the school and can never be deposited with a parent teacher organization etc. It's not consistent with what other districts are doing and I'm afraid there are that
114it's not necessarily consistent with what our schools are doing. >> So we should get rid of it. We we we need to at least consider it and if the board wants to stick with it, we will absolutely start educating our schools as to this is the rule. But I I don't know why we would necessarily. >> I um would you as as the the things we're putting into November grows or would you be okay with December? We we just have a short time period too between now. If you need if you need it in November, let's do it. >> I don't. But as fundraising activities are going on, I've I've asked schools to like >> let's do it. Let's let's do another. >> Okay. Yeah, it it's become re more and more relevant as this
115is kind of getting out there. >> I think particularly like if if you and Mike and and anybody else can come with a proposal, it's easy for us to give a green light to. I don't anticipate this being super controversial. >> Me neither. Not a long discussion at all. Great. >> You say this is on um >> what did you say this is? >> It's uh policy it it's uh in the other matters I think on board docks. It's policy 9212. It's in your materials in front of you and I will make sure it's on board docs. if it's not already. I believe it is. >> I'm not sure it is either now. It's definitely in your materials. Yeah. And I will add it to this uh um board docs as well. >> Okay. Thank
116you. >> Uh thank you. Um appreciate everybody. Um anything else for the good of the order? Um hearing