Student Achievement Committee of the Whole Meeting October 16, 2025

001All right. Seeing sorry, I was so happy to have a gavvel. Seeing a quorum of voting members, I call the October 15th Student Achievement Committee of the whole meeting to order. Everyone, please stand for the pledge of >> allegiance. I pledge allegiance >> to the flag of the United States of America, to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> I like it better when the kids are here. Do it. Treasure Augustine, please call the attendance role. >> Mr. Craig >> here. >> Mr. Crosslet, >> here. >> Mr. Lindy. >> Miss Matt >> here. >> Mrs. Weinberg. Vice President Bolton >> present. >> President Moffett >> here. Superintendent Murphy, please introduce our first presentation. >> Yes, ma'am. We have a presentation today that we're super

002proud of. and our director of curriculum is Emily Campbell is going to come and walk us through uh a uh CPS social studies instructional practices highlighted at our DBQ conference recently. Emily, >> good afternoon. Um thank you for having us. Uh we're really excited to share um this work that our social studies department um were highlighted about over the summer. A couple years ago when we initiated our um social studies readoption, we were looking carefully at our DBQ usage um which is called document-based questioning and um the social studies team put some real strategic work around that one. It had not been a part of our um initial adoption cycle. Um and so we wanted to make sure that teachers saw it as our core. Um and then they did various other things and their

003usage went from let me get this right 86% increase in usage um from their strategic work. So DBQ reached out to them and sorry and um asked about what did you do? how did you get this? Um, and wanted them to come to their conference with other leaders to share all of their strategies. Amongst that, they made this video. Our teachers can share a little bit more about DBQ than I can. So, um, [Music] >> what I like about the DBQ project is that it starts with an open-ended question. And I found it was a great way to support teachers in doing what every teacher believes is good teaching. Getting students to analyze, getting students to think critically, getting students to develop their own opinions and be able to defend them. >> We look at

004our job as teaching kids how to investigate and how to be able to see something unfamiliar and put context to it. Being able to think, being able to apply different sources, different ideas to a question is probably the most important thing because you're quite literally teaching kids to think. >> Inquiry based education is a valuable way to teach social studies cuz it allows the students to have their own perspective and allows them to think for themselves rather than being told this is what you need to think. >> And desperation, what do you do? >> Right? You know, there's a lot of assumptions that we have in our society about what our economy is doing and our relationship to one another. Well, if we do a deep dive into the Great Depression, for example, we can

005learn from that extended period of time of of this traumatic event. >> The other day I paid $789. >> And I think we assume less, curious about more. We're looking for parallels where there are parallels and we learn from that. Sure, it's a paper we write at the end. Sure, there's some really great like questions that kids ask, but it's also really really nice because the students are able to have a conversation >> and tell me what question are we trying to answer >> and it fosters debate. It fosters new ideas. >> You're looking at maps, you're looking at charts, you're looking at data and these are all skills that are coming up across all curriculum. So DBQ online as a natural evolution of this the the tools are very straightforward. Extract the meaning. Wonderful

006little ways to annotate whether it be sticky notes or highlighting that I can use to identify for myself and a teacher what I see. How can I extract the meaning? What am I learning from this little thing? And then at the end I put it all back together again. I've analyzed and now I can bring it all together in a cohesive hole. >> There's no right or wrong answer in how kids answer the question. It's how they defend their work. >> They're looking for the student to be able to look at the question, look at the documents, and start finding the pieces of evidence that will defend their answer. >> And that's an important skill for kids to learn. >> Not to mention, if you got a science teacher, a math teacher in the room,

007they're also saying, "Okay, we've talked about this in math. Oh, in science, we talk about this fourth quarter." And then you can break it down even further where it talks about the economy. It talks about basic geography skills. It talks about relationships of nations. It's kind of like the definition of like um crosscurricular. >> We are actually providing the nuts and bolts that an ELA teacher needs in order for these kids to be successful. >> So, it's a comforting sense of I know where I'm going. I know what I'm doing and I'm familiar with it regardless of the topic of the DVD. >> Can somebody raise your hand and tell me is this a primary source or a second? And I think one of the most beautiful things is seeing the kids, you know, make

008comparisons to their own lives. >> Yeah. The subject matter of history is important in and of itself. It's it's important that we remember that we remember names that we remember uh narratives. >> But I feel like the most uh the most critical piece of that is how do I how do I take a narrative? How do I take a person, understand the context within which they live, the challenges that they face in their day, and then as I learn from them, can I apply those challenges to present day, you know, civic conversations that we need to have. >> So, it's kind of this thing that's expanding with Cincinnati public. New teachers are being introduced to it. Us old teachers are using it more and more. We're constantly working on professional developments, sharing new ideas, making

009modifications, and just using it as an expansion to teach not just social studies, but all different curriculums. [Music] >> So, um, our social studies team was invited over the summer to present to other leaders around the nation who also use this, um, high quality instructional material. and um they helped us create this video. Um the three teachers that you saw were actually some of our initial teachers um when the socialized team did a deep dive who's using DBQ um so that as we as we expand this and make sure that all students have access teachers are learning from other teachers. Um and then the last thing just to share um this document-based questioning came from advanced placement um US history teachers who saw a need to increase writing and being able to defend arguments and

010defend what they were um what they were reasoning through. And so it this is a teacher like initiated instructional material that um we still have a lot of work to do but have made some progress with. So, >> thank you. This some of my favorite people were in that video. So, congratulations. Board members, do you have any questions, comments? >> Cross it. >> Yeah. Can you give me example of a document? I mean, is it like the constitution or something? >> Yep. So, it's a combination of primary documents and secondary documents. So they pair them together and then students have to think about like um you know what came from that primary work. So constitution um what's another great primary document that people use in social studies >> like the Gettysburg address. >> Yes. >>

011I'm not the only former social studies teacher up here but I'm one of them. So you can you can use all kinds of great things. You can use um graphs, tables, population figures, you can use political cartoons. You can use photos, you can do works of art, excerpts from short stories. I mean, there there's no there's no limit. >> Um, >> Got it. Thank you. Thank you. >> And I'm not I didn't want to interrupt Mr. Crosset if he had more that he wanted to say. >> Sorry, what? >> I didn't want to interrupt you. I was going to say something to Miss Campbell, but I >> I'm finished. You go. >> Uh, I just uh um just that this is great stuff and thank you. Uh and I hope hope makes a big difference.

012Um and it's important. >> Thank you. So, I think another former social studies teacher put this on here. I got you. Okay. >> I don't know who that could be. >> She's trying to point to somewhere else, but she's not going to deflect that. But so, board member Lindy, Vice President Bolton, but we're going to go to board member Matt. Go ahead. >> Well, as a former social studies teacher, >> another social studies caucus on this board. It's not only just a Walnut Hills caucus, we have a social studies caucus on this board. >> It's surrounded. Uh I'm thoroughly uh impressed with the work around uh the DBQ uh project and um really extending our students learning beyond just kind of that surface level of maybe multiple choice or fill in the blank but really

013um allowing them to take a deep dive into that critical thinking um you know aspect of learning and where they are truly able to take ownership of the work right and I love that it's not about whether answer is right or wrong. Um, but really understanding and having reasoning behind and being able to defend the work. I truly appreciate that and value that. And I just love that this is an opportunity that opportunity that we're providing our students to be able to stretch their growth. I'm a firm believer and students don't know or kids don't know what's hard unless adults tell them it's hard, right? And I think this is truly an example of that. So uh thank you for um the work that is being um presented to our students. Thank you for the

014teachers that have um been initiating and and propelling this work forward as well. My other my question is um can you speak to you said the usage is up to 86% or uh where did what was the baseline and where are we at now? >> Yep. So it's an increase um over four years 86% um increase in usage. So four years ago we were at 40,000 users that's inclus inclusive of teachers and students and now we are at um 80,000 that is really reflective more in the 712 space. We DBQ goes down to fifth grade and we do need to do some more work in fifth and sixth grade. >> Okay, perfect. Thank you for uh sharing that context. Um my only other question um as we talked about um you know the types of

015works that you're able to uh use this type of uh material or curriculum um with I know that the board adopted years ago are African-American um curriculum. Does is this embedded into that work or is it a separate um piece of curriculum? So, um it the AfricanAmerican um the the texts and things like that that we incorporated in every unit ended up in our ELA curriculum. And so this is paired in our social studies where they also have done some like critical analysis of their resources but not um to the level that ELA originally did. And then um we do work to offer African-American history at all of our schools. Um and then there are like resources that they can use within those courses. >> Okay, perfect. Thank you for sharing that. And um again,

016just I love the crosscurricular piece um because again learning isn't in a silo, but it's across, you know, different sectors. And so I like that there's been a focus on that. So thank you. >> Great. Now you now you vice >> president I can uh thanks for presenting today and of course uh I think this is so valuable. I love when Cincinnati public is highlighted by folks as us being the leaders in this particular effort. The DBQ, as some of us know and you've referenced, is used to just only be a part of advanced placement uh tests, whether it's European history or American history or uh comparative politics or what have you. Uh and the idea of using DBQ as an actual curriculum enrichment and enhancement to about source material and putting things together and

017increase writing. I think it was a great idea on their part to create kind of this cottage industry and I I think we can remember uh the last two budgets that we've had to work on. DBQ has been almost frankly a separate item >> uh as well or high a line item uh for social studies adoption or even separate from social studies adoption. I'm glad we're doing it. I I'm I'm pleased too that it it goes across all of our high schools and it isn't just about the advanced placement kids learning these skills. And I've heard a a significant amount of talk about the DBQ is this emphasis that many of us have about how do we get kids ready or grown-ups ready to understand sources >> which are valid which aren't valid or how

018do you put different sourcing together in order to come up with something. And I think DBQ is expanding >> and I'm glad our kids and our teachers were highlighted to that uh African-American uh uh course. I know we we do that which is great and you'll recall it's a few years ago when it was first introduced by the college boards there was pressure to get rid of AP African-American history and if I recall we in student achievement basically and I won't say it was a directive but I think we said to the administration we want you to continue to pursue this >> regardless of what the pressures are nationally. So we it wasn't just DEI that we started to kind of be uh uh uh very assertive, but I think on that course as well.

019So I appreciate this and I'm I you know I think we're big dogs. I think uh we are leading the way and I love DBQ and what it does for all of our kids. Thank you for sharing. >> I Well, I always go last and everybody always says everything I want to say. So kudos to what everyone has already said. I just will add that uh this just reminds me of um the Socratic method of uh teaching and learning. I was going to go into law school a long time ago and uh it just reminds me of that type of not necessarily right or wrong but just defending your position and that is such an awesome uh critical thinking method and I'm glad that our kids are getting it and they're getting it at schools

020that uh were represented which uh people need to know that too. Yes. >> Thank you for all the work that you and the team are doing. You guys are doing a great job. We need to hear more of it. So, thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. All right. Um, Superintendent Murphy, please introduce our next presentation regarding the guardrails. >> Yes, ma'am. So, up next we have Mr. Mike Turner, who is going to uh take us through guardrails one, two, five, and six today. Good afternoon everybody. I apologize ahead of time for sniffles, but it's just allergies. So, >> as long as you're not contagious, you can sniff on. >> No, it is it is this time of year, so >> So, as Superintendent Murphy said, we have uh the updates and so we'll

021just uh jump right into the first slide. Um, please Rob, we just wanted to give a progress status update as of October the 5th because we needed uh to have a date to be able to pull everything together uh to get in the format to submit to you guys. And we do have action steps that the owners of each piece of this work have developed um knowing there's ongoing conversations about the strategic plan and how this all fits. Uh some of this of course could be used as baseline inputs for that strategic plan. And then of course we always welcome uh board guidance and suggestions and all of that with each one of these. And so moving right into the first uh guard rail, guardrail 1A, uh the progress on that is the percent of

022high school students participating in arts and athletics-based extracurricular activities as of October 5th is 27%. Uh the next slide shows the breakdown by grade level. I will say that this is uh earlier than last year. So we are uh very close to the number last year which was reported later uh than this one. So there weren't necessarily any uh red flags uh with this but uh the owners of this do have some action steps that they identified that they want to make a priority and those are on the next slide. So first of all celebrating uh always celebrating and recruiting people for multi-activity participation uh that certainly as being a former principal where we had lots of students involved in not just one activity but multiple activities that builds momentum. It builds excitement uh because

023we have had a change with seventh and eighth grade moving out of many of our buildings. Uh there needs to be a strengthening of opportunities for the feeder pathways. Uh because some schools now have ninth graders and you know they may or may not have been there as eighth graders. Most of them probably were. But as we look to the future they definitely want to make sure between arts and athletics that they are looking at those natural opportunities going from 8th grade uh to 9th grade. uh data workflows is always um um a big thing about how to keep track of this. And so there's uh going to be there has been and will continue to be a very refined uh workflow effort with principles and ads with actionable summaries uh because it it is

024a a monster in many respects keeping track of students at any given point in time because things change on a daily basis. So the the data that I'm presenting to you now, I'm sure if we could magically look at it right this minute, it will be uh different one way or the other slightly uh because students move in and out of activities and then connecting resource coordinators and ads especially since everybody's under the same umbrella of CPS now to expand opportunities for all students. really want to stress with this data because it is as of October 5th, it does not reflect from the athletic side um many of the students who will move into fall sports uh here in um a few days and and so uh that is action step 1A. 1B is uh

025a guard rail around the district survey and we have two or three of those today that will pop up in different sections. This one is the percent of elementary school students who have a favorable response for sense of well-being on the district survey. 70.6% uh is that number. Uh and that again that is not um not a a drastic departure from from last year. I actually think it's it's a little higher than than last year about the same time. the action steps that go into well sorry we have one more we have our subgroups um pretty much all of our subgroups and I think you will see that there is not very much variation between all of these subgroups there is some of a difference but it's not that one of the subgroups is drastically

026off from the overall percentage so we did want to show you those percentages by subgroup group. So, some action steps uh very specific uh for for this one. Uh if just to give you an example, if 600 more students moved to favorable, that would get us at a 75% uh well-being. When we have thousands upon thousands of students in the district, 600 really is a small amount. And that just shows that what a small change uh of of students can do to move us. Uh many much of this work is connected to PBIS and so again maintaining what is already there continuing uh huddles with school social workers and then expanding the use of the collection uh database. What that refers to is the uh school-based uh people have a database that they keep track

027of with students. And so as we are able to hone in on students and making their them more successful in the school setting, then their own sense of well-being will be reflected uh in the data. And then always providing targeted building supports whether those are hands-on things. It could be people related things. And then time of course is always uh something that we covet. And then scheduling PD windows that avoid conflicts is a specific action step when it comes to working with the adults that implement PBIS uh which has a dramatic impact on students sense of well-being. So that is guardrail uh 1 A and 1B. 2A uh is looking at the percent of uh students across the entire uh grade spectrum. Black, Hispanic, and multi-racial students with a category two infraction compared to white

028students. So when we look at this data, there's a variety of ways that this data could be uh displayed for you. One of the things to keep in mind and and we do realize that the guardrail says percentage, but when you start looking at strict percentages, it does not take into account the varying differences in the percentage of students in those categories. So, in working with Dr. house. Uh what we thought would be a good way to show this data and especially show you the differences between the subgroups, which I which is what I would stress is is if we pare this down to the average number of infractions per student. So if we looked at all the white students in the district up until October the 5th, 1.8 8 average number of category 2

029infractions per student. But if we look at black students, that goes to 4.6. Hispanic students 0.2. So very low. And then multi-racial students somewhere between white and black students. If we looked at this from a percentage standpoint, even though we would be looking at percentages, you're still going to see the same magnification between white and black students. For example, I mean, looking at this data, one way that you could look at it to say is that black students are between two and a half and three times more likely to have a category 2 infraction than their white counterparts. The the next one 2B is very specific about black male students with category 2 compared to white male. And so when we look at this, you'll only see uh two lines. White male students uh average

030number of infractions per student 0.7 and then black male students 4.99. So you see a pretty dramatic difference between white male and black male. If we looked at percentage of referrals and um kind of extrapolate that to take out the differing amounts of students in those categories, you're still going to see uh that magnifying factor between those two groups. So the action steps with that uh I don't think will be uh any surprise to anyone. It's continuing and strengthening the targeted professional development uh in a variety of things. Code of conduct also restorative practices and then trauma-informed care is in there because many times uh students are having infractions not just because they decided this is what I want to do on this day. They have underlying factors uh that u play into uh what

031happens kind of from the inside out. And so trauma informed care is a big piece of that. Uh notice in front of coaching is the word strategic. When it comes to restorative practices, this does require a drilled down uh effort. And I will say that the uh positive school culture team with Dr. House have drilled down deep. I also failed to say uh that um Josh Harden and uh Maria and I'm gonna I'm gonna butcher Maria's name. Say it again. Cannini uh drilled down on the athletics and the um arts side of things too. So I I failed to give them credit. Uh but Dr. House and her team have drilled down in the data and they've also drilled down in these action steps and again is strengthening partnerships with communities and mental health providers.

032So 2C is a survey response and the uh percent of students in grades 7 through 12 and again this is what the guard rail was originally written as. So this is specifically for students in grades 7 through 12 who have a favor favorable response for teacher student relationship on the survey is 83.4% 4% uh which is um somewhat higher than this time last year. So the action steps with that again is if we could just shift 100 students we would be at 85 285 to 90%. But again, you see the same uh many of the same sort of action steps as the previous survey question. Continuing the monthly PBIS professional development, our district themes and all of the things that uh we see out there about what's great about Cincinnati Public Schools, like the video

033that we just saw. I mean, that makes students uh feel like they have a great relationship with their teachers, all of the huddles and that intervention database. And then we are also looking very keenly on the capacity of staff um clarifying uh multi-tered systems of support MTSS and PBS PBIS roles. Many people think that MTSS is only looking at academics, but we actually look at positive school culture, social emotional learning, chronic absenteeism. All of that plays into uh MTSS and then embedding SEAL, not just part of the time, but in daily instruction. So, now we're skipping all the way to guardrail uh 5A. And I do want to say that 5 A, B, and C are all lumped together that data on one slide. But 5A deals particularly with K12 students with chronic absenteeism. That's

034as a group. 5B are K12 black students with chronic absenteeism. And then 5C is K12 Hispanic students uh with chronic absenteeism. So when we look at our um percentages, want to remind you um that chronic absenteeism is about 10% of the days for the school year. But for this purpose, the way they calculated the data is 10% of the days up until October the 5th. So this does not mean that students have already achieved chronic absent absenteeism for the year. But if we looked at students who miss 10% of the days in the time segment, we have 36% of all students, 43% of black students, and 36% of Hispanic students. I did go back and look at the data last year that was that was presented the first time and it is higher than that

035but not much higher than that. So this is lower if we look at the time segment of the beginning of school up until around October the 5th. Again, if we checked that with a magic wand for to as of today, that percentage would perhaps be higher. Uh but we did not want to scale it out for the entire year because that would give a false narrative as far as where we stand. So that is if we just look at 10% of days in the time period. So action steps, I mean early warning indicators uh are a big point of conversation. Uh that isn't just about uh schools and what they do with students and school social workers. It's also conversations with it that occur. Uh how do we get uh automate like a bubble list

036for at risk students? It's making what we need kind of boots on the ground work with the IT systems that we have. tightening daily attendance taking and documentation and uh I heard uh Superintendent Murphy say that Saturday I think you pointed this out Saturday in the in the session is that you know sometimes a student might be in the nurse's office and we've got to clean those things up and that's really about monitoring that that validation uh compliance and then providing targeted support to focus schools focused schools in in this action step refer to schools that are having the most problems with chronic absenteeism and then really advancing the updated attendance policy timeline. So, what that refers to is the House bill that we've talked so much about uh that was uh put into law

037did change some language about updated policy timelines and so that is definitely an action step that needs to be taken care of. And then 6A and 6B. So this 6A deals with the percent of schools with an active LSDMC. So taking board feedback from um the presentation that we did about what is an active LSDMC. So in working with system superintendent Badget uh on this uh right now 86% uh means that we have 86% of LSDMC's and that was as of October the 5th. This would have been LSDMC's who have submitted rosters, who responded to the survey, and who have attended uh some sort well the meeting. I don't know that we've had a meeting yet, but that's factored into that moving forward. Uh so action steps with that one is we've got to make

038sure that we stick to a definition of active. Um active in the past was if you submitted a roster you're active. So moving forward active means that you have are maintaining a roster. You are conducting midyear lead agency evaluations and you're requiring meeting attendance at our district-wide LSDMC meetings. So there needs to be representation from the LSDMC in that. So moving forward right now there are some missing rosters uh that has got that percentage um low not low but lower than 100%. And then tracking and scheduling uh training for new members. LSDMC's have members who come in and out and so it's making sure that they are brought up to speed and onboarded and monitoring completion of that and then staggered recruitment to maintain continuity. I will say as a former principal, uh, continuity was

039hard sometimes because you get people on an LSDMC and it's time for their two years and there's not a line waiting for people to come on board. And so that is an action step that was identified. So then 6B is another survey question. This one is the percent of partners or other stakeholders who have a favorable response to their partnership with the district on the district survey. That one's at 71%. That is not a departure um of a significant uh way uh one way or the other from in the past and again it is uh early in the school year. So we will see that number go up because action steps are reviewing and enhancing partner communication systems. So that involves uh sharing the partner database with our marcom's department uh to make sure that

040updates are going out to a to a broad group of people who actually are engaged. Having regular partner meetings, check-ins to really strengthen relationships and make sure that uh transparency is occurring. and then also publishing um an annual impact report on ongoing initiatives and that is the end. >> Wow. Okay, great. You understood my assignment brevity Dr. I was like okay there you go. >> Great. Okay, let's get these Thank you. Let's get the board member feedback. Board member Craig. Um, so I'm couple things and I'll try to make them quick. Um, most of which are just more comments. Um, I think the helpful as a general comment from at least from my perspective is is having at least visible some of the past numbers with regards to seeing kind of the history of where

041some of these things have gone. Um, I think a couple of these numbers are probably, you know, pretty standardly going to be around that same number. Uh, but I think about, for instance, the participation they fluctuate throughout the year as to what those participation numbers look like and so getting a more historic representation of that will be helpful in also seeing where we are in comparatively. Um, one thought I wanted to also maybe raise with regards to the infractions in discipline, and I think this goes a little bit back to us defining and being clear about what a category 2 infraction is and what the results are potentially for category 2 infractions. Because I think I think we could say category 2, but I think at schools it's going to be treated slightly different depending

042upon how much they interpret something to be the specific infraction that's listed. you know, and I and I recognizing that schools do operate differently based on the nature of what their operations are, but I I just think that's another factor that if we have some schools who are interpreting some things more as an infraction than in other schools or less as infraction in other schools, then you may not have the same uh results. Um the other note and I guess this one with regard to chronic absentism and and I think this is one of the struggles that we have with this the percentage of being like once you're chronically absent more than a certain amount even in the first semester even in the first quarter for that matter you're kind of chronically absent for the

043rest of the year and what I have what I'm at least what we see in the numbers for this year is that our Hispanic numbers are again below our uh black students numbers and are kind of right in line with our average for the district. That's a helpful sign in some ways, but I also think we can we can find ways to certainly improve some of that. But I'm wondering if we can kind of see that also from a breakdown of the different types of schools. So whether it's elementary, middle school, or high school. And the reason for that is I think there are different reasons for each. Um, and that might go a little bit more into whatever those appropriate action steps could be. Um, because if those are, you know, if we're seeing

044a higher level at the elementary school level, that's an education of parents. That's a making sure, you know, we are addressing those things through our social workers and counselors within a school. If that is a high school number that's really high and the elementary school is low, it's a different issue, right? >> Good point. Yeah, it's a good point. The last one I wanted to just kind of inquire about and I think this is goes in line with our kind of what's an active LSDMC versus an inactive LSDMC. I think there's a we've seen a lot of great conversations with some of the LSDMC's and and some of their partners and how they build up and the role and that kind of deal. I'm wondering if there's any information that is provided to folks as

045they're reaching out to grab people from the school or grab parents or grab community leaders as to what that role in LSDMC means and looks like. I raise this because I have I have a friend who was just recently asked to join her kids LSDMC and she reached out to me to find out what an LSCMC member does and you know to great credit that I'm on this board and all. uh I probably was not the best person to ask what LSDMC member commitment would be cuz I'm not at their meeting, right? And and that particular LSDMC may meet more, may have more requirements, all those type of things. But I think it'd be helpful even if we had like a one pager that as people are reaching out and grabbing folks that they're able

046to share that information with them that would talk about like what is their LSCMC's commitment, what are their meeting schedule, what are their plans and gets them a little bit more organized because while some of them are very much in that way there are others and I remember when I joined the board we were looking at that definition of active and you know it was like well do you have a meeting at all? Right? like that may not be what we define as active, but it also may be the standard that was set by they have one meeting a year and that's all they needed to do. Um, so I mean I think some of that information putting it into some type of one pager or some type of document will make them be committed

047to whatever they put on that paper also. So those are just my thoughts. Uh, want to be quick about it. >> Thank you. >> Great. Thank you, Vice President Bolton. I think you're next. >> Yeah, thank you. Thank you very much. appreciate it. Uh just to to to start with the discipline piece. Um I don't know if I'm going to say this right, but again committing infraction to versus it being classified as a as an infraction too. I think that's where it starts to get strange and that's why the whole culturally um intelligent, culturally sensitive uh has to play into it because some of this has to be subjective. And I think that is interesting to to someone's I think to Brandon's point about looking at it school by school begins to be very important

048to me. Uh but appreciate the the the data. Um on the absenteeism, I'm kind of interested uh for sure regarding gender uh as well as necessarily u racial subgroups uh to see if there's something there that we can kind of be thinking about. um up at the extracurricular. I'd be interested to see what that percentage in those 20s or early 30s or whatever. What does that look like in comparison to suburban districts that really spend a tremendous amount of effort regarding extracurricular? uh I think extracurricular has a is I won't call it cause and effect but there is a correlation uh between extracurricular and uh uh success uh academically and in and growth. Uh I I'll just say this and everybody knows that I feel this way and it came up again in finance just

049I think last month. I still do um have great reservations about the role that ILTs play in determining extracurricular uh activities because given a choice between having more tutors versus having uh you know a chess club or something certainly teachers are probably going to predispose that we need more tutors in order to achieve the outcomes. But I I really worry about the ILT role and think that we could have greater equity if the ILTs weren't quite so involved with that. And I also have always said that this that there's an issue with extracurricular uh as being part of the CFT contract as an addendum. I just think that that that clouds the whole situation for all of us and and I don't know that it's helping get more teachers to do it anyway. But that

050those are my my big issues on that. To Brandon's point, any number of times when we were talking about middle schools, uh that feeder uh element that you started with needs to be emphasized. You know, uh that's how it all starts is at least in seventh grade and sometimes much earlier. Um certainly in the suburbs. Uh the other piece um uh is comparing if we could um among our schools, you know, to get to that percentage districtwide who what schools have a great deal and what schools don't have a great deal. And it's one of those areas where I think we could do some more work. And I have one question. uh when we talk about it extracurricular that percentage and we did this last year too the last time we talked about this does

051that or does that not include those kids that are curricularly taking let's say band and orchestra or choir during the school day is this strictly extracurricular >> so my understanding and I can verify this because we did we did talk as they were talking to me about putting the data together I believe the comment was made that they were trying to make sure that if it was like band that the students were doing something outside of the school day >> that >> for that. So if they were in band class but they didn't do anything outside of the school day with band then they were they would not necessarily be counted in that percentage. And and I know we talked about this last year or the last time and I think that's reasonable to get

052a real measure for extracurricular, but I also think when you look at the pool of kids that might be doing arts, whether it's performing or or what have you, uh or doing anything athletic or what have you during the school day, that's a pool from which to draw to make the extracurricular uh I think be bigger. It might give us we spend a significant amount of money on uh music and uh gym and PE and all those things. And I would love to see a number two that okay here's extracurricular but we have this many kids taking uh these sorts of um elective courses. I think that would be helpful uh to even sell our schools. Um so that's my thoughts but thank you. It's very interesting, very important stuff. >> Great. Thank you. I

053am going to ask my questions and I'm going to um invite you to give me this information via email because I'm sure you may not have it right now. Uh if we could go to slide 10, Rob, or start at slide 10. Um, some of this with regard to infractions has historically bothered me because I think the data needs to be disagregated a lot further. You brought up a point that um, looking at it from a percentage or just an average number give you the same typically the same results and that makes me it just makes me have more questions. So, I'm very interested in um, what schools those are. I'm interested in what grade bands those are. Um I think that to me it just it just begs more questions. Are we talking about

054a specific grade? If we're talking about the fifth grade and that's a testing year and we have more discipline in that grade that ex that may offer some explanation and it will definitely guide your training on um on the PD side to offset some of the discipline. But I'm I'm very interested in not only the average number of infractions, but the gray band of those infractions um and uh in schools. So, and and I mean you can go down further. Is it a specific principal? Is it a specific teacher? I'm not looking to weaponize that, but I am looking at offering some significant uh resources to support. I am also curious, are we offering in our PD implicit bias training to our staff around that? If we go uh to slide I'm not exactly sure.

055Can you go to slide 13? I was trying to take notes. Um when we talked about targeted PD and then the other things that were mentioned, those seem to be heavy on the student side after the student has received the infraction. We're going to do some restorative practices. That sounds more like it's on the student side. Um, strengthen partnerships with uh community organizations for mental health. That's again on the student side. I'm looking at the preventative side and I'm trying to figure out what are we doing on the preventative side to offset some of that. So that's where that question around implicit bias is coming in um and uh what are we doing to to kind of offset the infraction determination. I'm also very curious around disagregating that data do of that number that's three

056times their white counterparts are those students with disabilities taking out some of that information and that data is some of that infraction could that possibly be a manifestation of their disability that's not being categorized accurately um I think that we need to look at some of that disagregated data because it's alarming that it is four times more and the their Hispanic counterparts are so significantly less, which makes me think, is there an interventive step for our ESL students that they're getting that the other students are not? Again, that would be something that the administration can look at with regard to process and procedures. What is the step? What is the process for um some of our ESL students or um our Hispanic students? And then what is that in comparative to other students? And then

057also are there students with disabilities that are that are may or may not be receiving some of their um services that is categorized correctly. Um if we go to slide 19, Rob, my questions around chronic absenteeism. Again, I'm interested in those numbers aren't don't have a huge spread that way, but they do make me wonder what schools are these what grades are these students. That should be blaring off the paper that we have um a significantly high number comparative Hispanic students is comparative to all students. But where are these black students going to school that they're chronically absent? Is transportation impacting that? because we're we're counting transportation. We're not disagregating transportation out of that. Are they coming from communities where the bus needs to be fixed because they're getting to school late because the bus

058is crowded. Those are things that I think the data can tell us that we're um simply not I'd like to have it um disagregated a little bit more. And then um you spoke about on slide 20 targeting specific schools with regard to action steps provide targeted support to focus schools. Um, I'd like to see that around the other guard rail as well, providing targeted support to those schools that have yet to be identified or I'm sure you already have it, but the um identification of schools that have high numbers and it should be high numbers that are disproportionate to the relative counterpart of that the other schools. And then the last thing I'll say is there was um one slide and I don't know the number but there was one slide that talked about annual

059reporting an impact report. >> That is the last >> was it the last >> slide Rob? >> I was Yeah, there we go. I was wondering if there could possibly be a semester report or a quarterly report. But I'm not exactly sure, but I'm thinking more more frequently than annually. So that if there are uh pivots that need to be made, we could pivot that I'm sorry, not we, the administration could pivot and then provide some corrective or um maybe adjust it uh as needed rather than annually at the end. So those are just some of my thoughts. Again, I'm I'm happy to get my information, my requested information at a later date, but those are things that I'm specifically looking for with the data that you presented that just is glaring to me that

060there's something else going on. I really do want to thank you for that, though. >> Sure. >> Bo member Lindy, I'm sorry I I interjected. I usually go last, but I >> No, no, I was I was still gathering my thoughts and um I wanted and this may be more of a comment for um the superintendent and for my colleagues, but I think you know we are um carrying an over in the goals and guardrails reporting an artifact of a process we're no longer really doing. Um we're not a part of the governance coaching cohort that does the goals and guardrails. they're not a part of the not all of them are a part of the superintendent's evaluation. We're in the process of writing a new strategic plan. And so I think my my my

061push was just going to be where the logic stops, we stop. You know, it's like where we're we're um diligently going through the motions of something that we more or less stop doing. Um and so my my proposal would be um I think having a monthly committee of the whole that's focused on student achievement feels incredibly important. I think we should keep it. Uh, I think we should just test are truly if the things we passed at the board meeting on the 6th of October in those five outcomes for the superintendent, if those really are the most important things, we think she needs to be accountable for. I think a good test of whether we're using this time wisely is whether we're spending a meaningful share of these committees of the whole talking about those

062things. Um, now I know there only five of them and talking about all those every single month might be a bit much and there's a lot of other stuff in here that's important, but I just think that our systems should evolve as our priorities and our focus evolves. So that um I think my my request would be that we we ask the superintendent for a proposal. Um, and this is not urgent. This could be next month or the next committee the whole uh but if we were to really line up the calendar years presentations with the things that we just told the administration are most important continuing also like we should have visibility into discipline disparities like I think a lot of these topics really matter. I want to be clear, I'm not suggesting that

063we drop them. Um, but to build um a calendar that reflects what the priorities are um rather than than than continuing to do the things that we stopped doing a while ago. So that that's what I would would request. >> Okay. Board member Matt, I have a I definitely have a a comment around what you what you've shared, but I want board member map to continue. >> Okay. Um, thank you Mr. Turner for the presentation. Sure. >> Um, as it relates to the data and I'm not going to reiterate the comments because a lot of the things that were shared were um, some of the same concerns that I have around the data. Um, but as it relates to um, interpreting and analyzing this data, this is not something that is just done um, within

064the district, but there's also partnership with Children's Hospital. Correct. >> Correct. Can you for some of it? >> Okay. Can you speak about what their um support is that they provide and also maybe in in the recommendations um or maybe some of the recommendations that they share based off of the data that they see. I don't know if that's their role or not, but I I do believe that there's maybe some like community collective conversation as it relates to the data that they that you all see together. >> Sure. Sure. And I think I can answer that by kind of going over the process. So uh knowing that we were going to present these guard rails today uh the owners of the data received hey this is the date we need the data by a

065certain point. So the two areas that I know that have been an ongoing partnership with Children's Hospital have been the ones that deal with chronic absenteeism u very very much so with chronic absenteeism and also some in connection with uh calculating the data for the category 2 infractions. I will say that the action steps because children's deals very heavily on the data side of things. The action steps come from the owner of so this would be Dr. House and her team with the action steps. I don't know that and I can verify this but I don't know that children's hospital would have given any action steps that we've shared or given input to that where they've been very invaluable and I won't go into all the technicalities of this but just to get the the

066per student number for category 2 and fractions uh for today children's helped extrapolate extrapolate that data to get from we have this percent of black students, but they make up this percent of overall enrollment. And then you do that for each one of the groups. And then you come up with how do we compare that out? Sometimes just giving a percentage doesn't really tell the story because sometimes percentages look people look at percentages and they just think, well, there's more black students than white students and that's why our percentage is higher. That's really not the case. When you look at it and drill down with the formula that they use, you can compare per student infractions. So, they definitely help with that. I also believe with the chronic absenteeism, they were able to go in

067and help with looking at this at a point in time, which for this meeting was right around October the 5th. Um, so the short answer to your question is they help with the data heavily on the uh category 2 uh calculations to make that understandable and readable. And then on the chronic absenteeism, I believe they helped a little bit but not as much with the category 2. But the action steps would come from the actual NCPS owner. uh they do not offer assistance in any of the other data areas that you saw here today. >> Okay. Thank you um for that um insight is really helpful in recognizing the you know the the great work that you all do um and really trying to drill down the data and also having um uh children's hospital

068who I know is very diligent and um rigorous with their data analysis process. So, um, to to to this point, I do see potential correlation that's concerning as it relates to, um, the students sense of belonging um, and correlating to the infraction um, data as well as the chronic absenteeism data. And so ultimately what that says to me is that there are things that we need to make sure that we're paying attention to because I do believe that the data can tell a story. And yes, there's a lot of questions that need to be asked as it as we're, you know, uh analyzing this data. But there's obviously uh a narrative there that's very alarming, especially for our black students. And so, um, I'm I'm curious to know what do you all need from the

069board because I'm looking for us to have a radical change here because we cannot continue to go on and just say that this is the data and we're seeing that our students, our our black students specifically, are three times higher with category 2 infractions. And I do believe that there's a lot of work that needs to be done there. as you spoke about um or many of you spoke about how is this being interpreted. I do think that a lot of our schools need support in that area um as it pertains to maybe classroom management as it pertains to um again knowing and identifying what a category 2 infraction is. And that also helps to when we're all on one accord, that helps to build the culture. That helps to build that sense of belonging

070that I'm not being um I'm not receiving consequences that are disproportionate to the actual uh situation. And I'm I'm here to tell you I know that that occurs, right? So there needs to be a lot of work um in that space. Um, but you all are sharing what your action steps are. Um, and wanting to make sure that I'm operating from a space of governance. What do we need to do as a board to help support in this effort? Um, and that can be, you know, your ideas, that can be from you, uh, superintendent. We have a mental health policy, um, that very well can support this work here. Um, I do know that Dr. House presented a social and emotional curriculum um that would be recommended districtwide, but what is it that we need

071to do to support in this work and really yield radical results? Going beyond the words, words are great. Going beyond the actions, actions says a lot, but the results are saying more. And so, how do we change that narrative? What what I would share uh board member map is over the course of time as we're asking our students and families what they want to see for our school district is continuing to have the opening the open ear that you have had around this. uh we have had to uh make some heavy adjustments um financially. It is and is and some of the things that maybe people want to see that we've been able to provide in the past at this point we've had to make some adjustments. So, as we continue moving forward, um, in

072some cases, additional dollars at the right time with the right ask would be able would be helpful to us, um, as it relates to being able in the extracurricular realm to offer more um, opportunities to uh, our students. um giving us a little bit of time to circle through some of the training that we have done in the realm of positive uh school supports because uh we need to give it a little bit of time to work especially with the level of new staff, new teachers, um new systems that we have in place moving forward. >> Okay. Thank you. And so all of these systems are expected to work in collaboration with one another, in tandem with with one another. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. Um my only asks would be um I I think you

073did a great job, Mr. Turner, presenting this information and you spoke about a lot of the work uh is um specific to Dr. House's work under positive school culture. if she would be able to come and present on the work um that is being done specifically around these action steps. >> Sure. >> And if I could if I could say just from a process oops sorry I have more trouble with this microphone. I should just yell every meeting. Um from a process standpoint my view of you ask how the board could help. I think the conversations that have occurred and to go to board member Lindy's point about do we still need the guard rails. I'm not passing judgment one way or the other about do we still need the guard rails, but my view

074in in seeing this in the past and coming into this role is we've almost gotten into a box of what is presented because we've we've had the strategic plan. I have gone back, trust me, and poured through two or three years of presentations to get patterns of what has been presented and almost without exception, what the guard rail says is what is being presented, right? And so then you you go in like if it asks for black versus white students or or male, but if it doesn't ask for gender, then that's not what's been presented by the last administration, this administration, because I think that's what the document said to do, right? So, what I've heard, and it goes in line with what Superintendent Murphy said from uh from what she said about a very

075boots on the ground implementation, a common theme that I've heard from the comments here today is if we could like visualize this big sheet that showed all of this data today, but have it disagregated by school. So you see the patterns of not just globally but how are the elementary students compared to middle school to high school in discipline or in chronic absenteeism but because of the format that the strategic plan with the guard rails in particular have forced. So to me it's for the board. What would help me is for the board to say this is the format we really would like. And if it's moving away from the guard rails and Superintendent Murphy is tasked with presenting it a different way, then that's where I work with all of the owners to make

076sure it's presented in that way. With the guard rails, it's not clean like it is with our testing, right? The academic side. the academic side, they take the benchmark, they take the end of course, whatever it may be, the third grade reading, and you get that number. Now again, it may not be final until it's final because of school year students versus not, but with this, I mean, I will just say that, and thanks to the people who did this, the hours upon hours that were used to come up with the data, and I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about people giving me the data and all of the conversations back and forth. people really took this seriously, but they're taking it at a point in time which just happened to be the first

077week in October. And that's part of the monster of the guardrail data is it changes constantly. So like next month if this is what we do, we'll be presenting the the first round of our fall benchmarking, right? Mhm. >> Well, that's at a point in time and it comes out of a program. People can do action steps, but the data is easy for that. It's interpreting the action steps that but guardrails guidance on what is the path forward and because it's been tied to presentations for two or three years based on what was in the strategic plan. >> Okay, >> hopefully that makes sense. I I I think uh it makes a lot of sense based off what I'm hearing you say. Um I'm wondering to that point as you talked about the board sharing

078um or or inquiring about different data points, right, and having it disagregated out. I do believe that there has to be a focus on something or we will be >> distracted. But I'm wondering if there is a way for you all to um kind of provide a more uh holistic presentation of the data so that we can maybe have it available to us maybe kind of based off of some of the questions that were presented. If it is disagregated by schools or by grade bands that is helpful. Um and then I think in terms of the board work we identify what to specifically you know target and and focus on so that we can see that um that uh progress with the overall uh data points. Um but again I just when I see this

079data come back um it is alarming. It is blaring and like I said we do have to take a radical approach um to begin to move the needle forward. So that's all I >> I appreciate. >> Thank you. >> Uh Vice President Bowman. >> Yeah. I would to follow up on just a few things. Uh I do believe that from this day forward so to speak the goals that we should be emphasizing are the new goals for which we're holding the superintendent accountable. Well, if I reflect on the uh dialogue that we had at the committee at the retreat uh when I mentioned absenteeism, I think everybody said, "Well, that was a guard rail." And so I think it might not be uh a bad idea if we are going to move to just these

080these new goals versus the old goals. But maybe the board does need to talk about which guard rails to to uh uh preserve and which ones not to because I I think those were very valuable into how to achieve it or as values. I don't want just the goals. I I like some value clarification for the superintendent and the administration as well. Um and and I I do think that that makes sense. The problem with aggregate and versus disagregate is that um we are interested in the disagregate information but the way we do the goals and the measures. It's all about aggregate. And so somewhere in there maybe the administration and smarter people than me can figure out how you mix and match, combine, develop both the aggregate and disagregate. As a matter of fact

081in finance uh three years ago if I recall I think it was uh uh President Moffett that started talking about per school even in the financial picture of things versus the aggregate. Now we don't we have for us we have to stay at the aggregate level but because that that's where we must stay but still to better understand and better move along we do um need and and have a want for the disagregate information as best we can. So I think as the administrations asked for changes that can be part of how they can maybe proceed as to how we can have both to a certain extent but I'm all in favor of moving to those five goals rather than the old ones. Uh and and for Mr. Lindy uh the idea that it might

082be five of the same thing that doesn't seem like it'll be enough time. Remember that all of those are big as you know and more particularly we can be using this time in our strategic planning because one of those goals is to come the administration to come up with a strategic plan. So all of this is is is very good and I think it's time to to move to these new goals but how how we balance aggregate versus disagregate we have to kind of get break loose of the measures quite so much right now uh to be able to go to the disagregate. I think that would be helpful for the board. >> So I I just want to board member cross. So, I I just want to kind of weigh in on um I

083I if you all will will recall when I first got on the board in 2022, I think the only one that may not remember is board member map, but we had student achievement committee and the student achievement committee measured things like academic achievement. It measured bullying. It measured those well, I'm sorry, it monitored those things. We have boiled this down now to um a Sakal which is a student achievement committee of the whole and I don't have a problem necessarily with the goals and guardrails we can call it something else but this is the type of data that I believe we should hold the administration accountable for I don't want to get away from measuring discipline data I don't want to get away from measuring ing the disparity between black students, white students, males, females.

084I believe in order for us to hold the administration accountable for something that is tied to it can be tied to state standards, we need to ask them to monitor it. That's the best way to make ensure that it's being looked at and held um that they're held accountable for and regular a regular cadence of the data is what we should be expecting. So I don't care if we call it something different but that number should be going somewhere in the negative. I mean it should be going down and it's not. And so we've been monitoring it for several years and we are now able to say with certainty that we're watching it move either one way or the other. But holding them accountable to the data is what I think we're expected to do.

085In the best interest of time, I'm not interested in reducing our time to get rid of the monitoring of this data because this is this is exactly tied to student outcomes. And I don't understand how if we all agree that if that student outcomes is our collective focus, the things that impact student outcomes, we're not going to regularly hold the accountable for and the administration accountable for and measuring. Um absenteeism is a state I'm sorry, it is a national concern. We need to be looking at it regularly. So, I'm not I'm all for calling it something different, but I'm not for taking it away in the best interest of we're trying to decrease the time so that we can have uh fewer meetings. This is important information. This is data that I think we need

086to hold the administration accountable to and it needs to be monitored on a regular basis. And so, my expectation is and I will support us maintaining this level of accountability on a regular basis. I don't know what we're going to call it, but that's just my my two cents about it. So, board member crosses. >> Thank you. Um, Mr. Turner, thank you for the presentation. >> Sure. >> And also, I I just wanted to thank the whole administration. I think the presentations we've had since the school year began with the middle school principles and the assistant superintendents have all been helpful. I can tell that you guys put a lot of time and effort into these presentations. So, thank you for for that. Um, I also think that we're getting closer and closer to getting

087our with these presentations. We're getting a little closer and closer for the board to maybe be a little bit more on the same team as administration. I think that'll that'll helpful. It doesn't mean we don't hold you accountable. It's just we can get all our ores paddling in the same direction. I also appreciate this presentation today because it's kind of good data early in the year. I think it it helps get us a heads up which I think is helpful. Um I agree with uh President Moffett that these are a lot of good data points that we don't want to give up. I don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater, but I do agree we should focus on the five goals that the superintendent has, but it could be that many of

088these data points that we're collecting will be good data points to add up to or roll up to the goal, the five major goals. So I I agree with you know keeping as many data points as we can collect that are relevant would be important and I think we can uh look at that as we evolve the strategic strategic plan as we go on during this school year. Um I did want to I think in general I'm probably going to echo everybody's comments but this is just my view of data uh from my experience in the business world but the aggregate data is very important but in order to really understand where the issues are with the aggregate data you got to granulate the data and I think this is I would granulate all of

089it all the time because otherwise you can't really figure out why there's a problem and I think that I think it's important to remember that all of these data presentations should be the beginning of a conversation and that uh the answer to the question why we are at these data points is the conversation and so I would just keep that in mind with all of all of the guard rails and the goals that we work on uh and I think that's a way of discerning the aggregate and the disagregate information is to you got to got to break it down to understand why There's problems. For example, it may not be that you're going to collect data that's just raw data. You probably going to have to, for example, on favorable student belonging. I think

090you got to collect data on why somebody chooses not to be favorable if it's possible, like in a comments or why they don't like their teacher and the whatever they calculation was about whether or not they felt favorable about their teacher. I think in the um in the uh infra infraction two data I don't know if you can granulate the type of infraction to understand why there might be one as well as you know this the school and the and the grade level would be important on that as well I don't know if you necessarily have to present all the granulated data but if you have it and you look at it you see a trend or you see a underlying reason that's going to be what's going to be important, how to answer the

091question why is is is going to be really important to to going forward with this. So, those are my comments, but thank you all very much. >> Thank you. >> Great. Thank you, Bo. >> Um, again, I'll try and be quick because I'm trying to get us to set some records here tonight. Um, I would offer kind of two thoughts. One is with regards to the guardrails. I think we discussed it a little bit at the retreat, but I I do think until we establish kind of we set goals for the superintendent for this next year, but until we really establish what our longer term solution will be, I don't think it's uh necessarily harmful to kind of continue looking at some of what our guard rules were and especially given that most of which

092are things that we are just kind of guidance to keep us in line with where our direction would be as a district. Um, again, I respect the idea of also like recognizing and reviewing them and making a decision as to what are those things that um require reporting out on and what are those things that require us to get kind of a a different level of update or different schedule to the update. I think that's something that we can figure out at a different time. Um, but I just I think that's fine. I I want to bring a little bit of caution and I want to echo a little bit of what uh Vice President Bolton said, but I I think maybe in a different manner. I think it is important for us to be

093able to grab as much data as possible at times to to really make educated decisions on things. I think where my struggle comes also is that sometimes we're going to get so far into what each decision is with the data that we may not make a decision. And so what I would ask just as a as a as us as a board that I have no problem with us getting more data as you know again I asked for some additional points of data and I don't think there's anything wrong with that but for that we as a board commit though that we do something with that data when we get it because what we've done year after year after year is get a bunch of data and then we as a board take a year

094and a half to figure out what we want to do with that data and what we want to do as a result of that data and I think that's not fair to the team who spends so much time gathering all that information to bring to us and then we take a long time making a decision um because there are a lot of things that especially given our budget concerns that we will have over the next few years that we will need really quick decisions on as a board and so I think if the superintendent and her team is able to put together that information and give us a a broader picture of some of the things that we've asked for that we then make very quick decisions that allow them to move forward and spend

095majority of their time implementing the things that they're working hard to do or that they've brought to us or that we've suggested and made decisions on. Um, and I say that in part because, you know, again, I said this about our budget. I was I'm happy to see where starting earlier on that, but I think we're going to have hard decisions on that. I think we're going to have hard decisions on a lot of things. and having meeting after meeting after meeting where we're just discussing it over and over again is us getting stuck in the in the details as opposed to the governance level of then making the direction and then holding those folks accountable. If we don't achieve they don't reach the marks that we say is where we want to see then

096then we hold them accountable for that. But um I I just think it's on us to do something with the data if we're asking for all this data. All right, just real quick. Okay, Superintendent Murphy, >> just for the board's consideration and my thoughts listening to everyone, um, regardless of your decision or direction, we will continue to collect this data because all of these data pieces help us with instructional outcomes. My and is if there is consideration uh that the team will be working on a new strategic plan, uh allowing us that time to be able to build that work um would be extremely helpful and would be what my ask is. >> You mean allow can you expand on what you're talking about with regard to allow you the time to in lie of

097this? You're saying >> we will continue to collect this data and we can uh a couple of board meetings from now we plan to share our uh dashboard and our scorecard. Um it's data we can include in our dashboard and scorecard as we're collecting it uh if that is acceptable to the board. allowing us to do that um would then give us time to work on the new strategic plan that we have to develop to begin to share with you the work that we're doing. >> I'm still a little confused because we haven't decided to change anything. So all of this should still be presented every month until we decide collectively to change it. No problem. >> So >> we we will continue to do that. I I was trying I'm sorry. >> No, I'm

098I'm saying report it back out cuz it's collect M of this is already data that's collected anyway. Correct. >> Yes. >> So, are you saying you want you're you're requesting to not present it? >> It's still going to be collected, but you would >> we would still collect it. we would still um share it with you maybe in a written form as opposed to a full presentation thus saving us a little bit of preparation and time so that we can spend that time working on our new strategic plan. It's a repurposing of how we use our day-to-day time. >> Well, I think we can definitely talk about it um more collectively at a board member. I'm not in at a board meeting. I'm not in favor of that. That's just my personal opinion. I think

099until we decide to formally change it, we should maintain what we have. Um, and I don't think there was a request to formally change anything. Right now, it's still the goals that we set regarding um the superintendent those five goals that we decided on and until we formally change the goals and guard rails, we're just going to continue to monitor this, but we can bring it up at a board meeting if you all would like to to continue the discussion. Um my in my understanding is we're going to just continue to do all of this and you we're working on the strategic plan in in addition to that. But what are you what are your thoughts very quickly board members? Board member Cross was >> Yeah. Uh board member Craig is aware of this too.

100We we have a dashboard system in the U for the internal audit group and the dashboards are pretty flexible. So it could be that we got a dashboard now that relates to our goals and guard rails and the five goals that we have now. But as the strategic plan changes, you can this these dashboards can adjust. So I think is that what you're talking about primarily it it's okay. I don't it seems like we're not there. I was hearing a mix of some ideas and some thoughts and I was trying to pull those together so that we could get um both and that the administrative team would have time to also be able to work on the future. But so let's talk about it offline you and I and then we can present something with

101a little clearer thought. Um let let me go to Vice President Bolton and then we'll go to board member Lindy. where I where I am is the idea that we've moved to these new goals and I think that's what governance governance teaches us to focus but I don't know as a board whether or not we've decided to rid ourselves of the guard rails so I think there needs to be dialogue about guard rails but I I don't want to do these goals and more goals I think the concept of governance was to focus on those things and so I'm more than willing to move to new goals uh and but have a discussion about what guard rails, if any guard rails continue. Thank you. >> Thank you, board member Lindy. >> Thanks. I I just

102think the more we ask the administration to do, the harder we make their lives. Uh and the more we put in, the more we dilute people's focus. Um we have a great set of five clear outcomes for this year. They are ambitious. Four out of the five of them are ambitious. I voted against one of them. Um but at least four of them are very ambitious. Um and I think that coming up with a like a good version of the strategic plan will answer these questions for future years. I would rather see us invest the time to do that work well than do none of those things well. So I am totally for the administration coming back with a proposal. I don't pretend to know the right way to thread this needle, particularly because it's

103not as though the things in the guardrails don't matter. They do matter. Uh, and I think it would not be responsible of us to pay no attention to them for the next eight or nine months. But where exactly to strike that balance, I do think the administration would have a good perspective on that. I'm one board member, but that's my position. Thanks. >> Well, thanks team. I I guess I'm a little confused because this is having sat through the very lengthy process that we we developed around the goals, the guard rails and all of that. A few years ago, this same board was just gung-ho that we have goals, we have these guardrails, and we develop a strategic plan. So, I'm a little confused that that was the expectation then and now all of a

104sudden we we are deferring to um let's just get rid of I have not said that I'm willing to I I said I'm willing to let them be called something different and there should still be a report out of that. I'm not convinced that just simply a dashboard with no explanation or no formalized presentation is sufficient when there may or may not be questions. Where is the accountability piece to that? Particularly since there was an accountability piece for the previous administration around the same thing. So, I'm just a little confused, but I would like to take some time to um talk about it with the administration so I can understand exactly what they're proposing and have them propose something formally to us as a board when we would be voting on it more collectively. I

105do think the the goals are definitely appropriate. I think that these matter, but I think I'm getting mixed signals from my colleagues having sat through for a couple of years this very lengthy process to get here and now all of a sudden um we're we're deferring a little differently by the same people that got us here. So, I'm just a little confused. Board member Matt. Um yes, my thoughts on this is me asking the questions that I asked in terms of what can we do as a board is really coming from the lens of really focusing on our students because again we continue to see uh presentation after presentation where there um is vast concern there at least for me and So I don't want us to get hung up on um you know it

106should be this way, it should be that way. I want us to be able to find uh solution so that we are really impacting our students from a lens that is going to yield the best academic and holistic outcomes. And so I do believe that whatever the goals are, uh, whatever the guard rails are or values are, they do have to be monitored regularly. I'm a firm believer and if you do not attend to the thing that you're trying to change, there won't be any um transformation at all. So you have to put attention there. So whatever we decide upon, yes, we have to monitor it regularly. It has to be monitored with fidelity. And this my my comment was all about accountability. I do not want us to um continue to be distracted by

107how we do this or or or whatever the recommendations are. I want us to really make sure that we are looking at what is going to yield the best outcomes for our students because we cannot afford to wait any longer. And that's that's my perspective on it. Um again I do think there should be goals. I do think that there should be um some guard rails in place because again that's also what the community um has presented to us. this is their values and so I want to make sure that I uphold that and as I talked about before there is correlation in the data for me sense of belonging um you know uh uh connected to infractions or discipline connected to chronic absenteeism which ultimately connects to uh achievement. So we have to do

108something that is going to be intentional, purposeful, and that is really going to be solutionoriented to yield those outcomes positively for our students. So that was what my um feedback was about. >> Okay, Mr. Turner, I think we I hate to have had you stand there. I'm so sorry this whole conversation. I definitely think we have things to work on as a board and you all send me your thoughts uh via email and we can continue the discussion on Monday at our upcoming board meeting if you like and um otherwise is there anything else around new business that board members have other business? All right. Well, then I think we're doing good. Have a great night everyone. We'll join you at join us at our next board meeting on Monday, October the 20th. Oh, I'm

109sorry. All right, we got to vote. We got to We got to >> I take a motion to >> meeting. >> Any discussion? Everybody in favor? Mr. Gustin?