CH-UH Board of Education Meeting - September 16, 2014

001Call the meeting of the Cleveland Heights University Heights City Board of Education to order. Call the role. Miss Pepler here. Mr. Register here. Mr. Silverman here. Mr. Zooker. Mr. Kovville. Here. Okay. Uh we have uh the first order of business is to approve minutes from the board regular board meeting on July 8th and special board meetings of July 15th 23rd and 31st. I'll accept motion to make those those part of the record. Second. Any discussion corrections? Okay, Mr. Co. Mr. Register, yes. Mr. Silverman, yes. Mr. Ter, yes. Mr. Yes. Okay. We're here tonight to um have our first review of the schematic design and I will turn it over to Mr. Shaggalis and he can bring along his team and we'll listen. I will. So, good evening everyone and thank you. Um, so I'm going

002to do some quick introductions because we have a couple of new faces up here. Um, um, to my uh, left is Steve Zeni. Not a new face. U, but to my immediate right is, uh, Jim McMillan from Carlinsky Engineers and, uh, Carpinsky is a consultant that works for the VSHM design team and he's going to be uh, leading the discussion about the HBAC central plan discussion tonight. Uh next over is Fred Rogers. Uh and Scott or are from the Gil Ozanne uh uh team and then at the end is our BS gem design team, Gary Vlog and John. So uh with that I will turn it over to Steve and Okay. First of all, I want to thank you all and we have a a very large agenda for you tonight and uh I do

003appreciate the time that the board's putting into this. Uh to kind of give you sense, today is a work session. Uh we're really to learn about where the project is right now and sort of when you get into schematic design and this is normal for the process is that we're balancing design, program, budget and systems. And what you're going to hear today is we're going to hear about the design itself, where the architects are right now in the design process. We're going to also hear from our construction manager about the budget and what those budget pieces are. We will also hear about uh the systems uh which is really pretty critical in terms of what are we looking at, what are our options for do doing that. And then when it comes down to it,

004as we're dealing with these challenges of budget, design and systems, uh, how has the program been modified or changed? And so we're going to we're going to have a discussion discussion of that. I I really want to point out though as part of the project delivery model that you selected, which is called CM at risk, one of the things that's been a huge advantage was having our Gilbane team sitting with us as the design is being developed. We're we're discovering early on that there are some challenges and they're going to walk us through those just as if you recall there were challenges on the stadium if you recall and we we were able to meet those challenges and in the end the stadium when it actually got built was built on time on budget and

005we actually got more scope than what we originally thought we could afford. And we see sort of the same processes here, but what we're doing in in that's differently here is we're seeing those issues brought to the table much much earlier so we can react to it and eventually work with the board on what the priorities are are today. So I'm very excited about what we're going to be hearing today. What I'm going to start it off by uh handing it over to uh Fred Fred Rogers and Scott from the Hill Ozan team and they're going to walk you through. They don't have a an estimate today. They've just gotten most of the documents. They're going to be putting together a very detailed estimate and they're starting that process. But I think it's important for

006them to kind of outline what are the challenges that they're we're facing as we come through this. It doesn't mean we need a decision. It just means these are the challenges and these are things we need to look out for. And so if I can hand it over to Fred and Anthony to Scott. Thank you. Good evening everyone. Um Rogers with the with team as well. Um the process as um Steve indicated is construction manager at risk and the key word is at risk. The at risk piece comes in earlier than if you do a design bid build scenario and then the project accurate design. So therefore we're embedded in the process of uh how the building is designed through the input that you've given and we al we offer our input related toability and

007cost. That said, going from P to where we are today, we've uh indicated certain um issues that we need to address and that was we have a packet that did go to the board uh in the form of a letter uh September 11th and I'm just going to highlight um a couple of the items and we can have discussion later. the um existing building a portion of it being maintained uh in basically started with some inherent areas that were not as efficient as the OCC's uh design manual will allow. So therefore the architect has to work around those particular areas adding on and making eress areas around those areas which which causes some inefficiencies and additional square footage. So therefore from P to we uh ended up now the square footage has grown as architect

008has looked at the existing areas and tried to fit in the new to the existing 1926 uh building. So that has created uh a challenge that we're working through. Also the um soil uh conditions um below where we're going to be building. We made some assumptions during the PO that certain items below grade are going to be uh a certain characteristic and uh we'll have to anticipate how we how we deal with it once we get the areas uh opened and demoed and start doing our uh new construction. So again assumptions were made during the PO process that we have to vet as we move through SD phase. HBAC my good buddy here uh as he designs and and provides a narrative we have we have already made some assumptions on an HBAC system during

009the P process very broad assumptions so now as the narrative gets uh finalized we'll be able to hone in on uh particular systems and how those systems uh interface with the structure in the building and how interface in terms of uh how uh all of that gets constructed with architectural features of the building. Uh the site is another uh aspect of it. How the how the building sits on the site. Uh we made again assumptions during the P process. So now uh we have more details. We are seeing you know where parking is going to be uh provided or not provided, how how the building grades and how everything uh relates from Cedar to uh to Washington. So that said, uh we're uh vetting the process and working directly with uh bail uh on the

010on the documents and getting more details from them and having basically a good exchange in terms of uh our experiences and their experiences. So this is part of the again the process that you have selected by construction manager at risk. It it gets us involved in the uh process early on and we have a a vested interest because we are going to eventually be at risk. We're going to eventually give you a guaranteed max price that we're going to have to adhere to. So, we're definitely in the process and working with uh uh the architect to make sure this is a success. Steve? Yeah. Is Scott, do you have any other comments for us? No. You know, the one item that we missed a little bit uh and we're going to talk more about is

011really the exterior skin, how that's going to play out during the the PRS and obviously we made some assumptions where that skin was going to be added. um this this process we went through that is that has changed and I think it's changed for the better. Um and so but what that has done Fred alluded to some of those inefficiencies and where we're going to allocate where we're spending the money where in in the PR estimate we were doing more of a restoration to some outside areas. Uh now it's more new skin, less restoration, but more more building in the back part. So that was the one part that we're still working through. Some of those elevations are very new to us. Uh and and certainly for the next couple weeks, that's the budget process

012that we're we're working through. Okay, great. Thank you. Do we have any questions before we we move on? Yeah, I have a question. Um Fred, if you'll go back to your comment about the soil condition. So, as an example, you have some you've received some of the soil condition reports already. Yeah, there was some soil borings that were that were initially made. And so even though we don't have the detail on those, which I don't I don't believe we need at this point that that's an example of what you're working through to to cost this out and how that's in play. You do have those. We have some preliminary information and from that preliminary information, we've made some assumptions uh in terms of the type of foundation system, the uh degree of undercut that we

013may have to do. You know, we've made a few assumptions in that regard. Again, more information will be provided once we uh you know get get more uh detail in terms of the building structure itself and also when we get started. Okay. Any other questions? Yeah. You know, when we I'm I'm not exactly sure where we are, but we in the narrative that we had Oh, yeah. Okay. In the narrative that we had relative to the site plan, it talked about uh spent some time talking about the parking spaces. And I don't know if this is right to ask for some clarification on what that all means because I think we were expanding the number of parking spaces and I think you mentioned something like the possibility of eliminating a couple hundred parking spaces. I

014is that am I understanding that right? Yes. Would you like to answer it? I what I would like to do is maybe wait till we get to the site plan review and let them go through it. But I think they what was uh our our CMR is very well aware of that and what those implications are in terms of savings or or expense and what that what that can mean. I'd like to have the architects take us through the site plans. Okay, that's fine. I've got a quick question. The third bullet from the bottom uh simplify interior finishes and site improvements to overcome square footage challenges. What exactly does that mean? Well, we just re received uh the interior finish schedule in the last couple days. So, as we go through that and and what

015that plan is, we'll take a look at that and see if there are other ways to accomplish what you're what you're going through to have some cost savings to know we have this square footage uh challenge we need to overcome. Gotcha. Any other questions? Okay. I'd like to hand it off to to Gary and and your team. Why don't you bring you're going to bring us through both the plan review, site plan review, and exterior re review. You thanks uh thanks Steve. Um you're going to u I I I think uh um Fred kind of teed it up in in talking about where we were at when we were uh going through the the program uh the P stage. And as as Fred said, the the the anticipated uh that get feedback. Yeah. The anticipated

016efficiencies and utilization in the layout because they because we were just working with a uh because we were just working with uh basically the text and no real plan. They made some assumptions about how you know how efficient we could be in utilizing the the 1926 uh core. And frankly uh we we created a puzzle and and you saw you saw the plan. However, that plan was actually the gross square footage was over and the net square footage was over. So uh there's the other complication in the existing building besides uh the structure is that uh that the building has a very shallow floor to floor height. I think it's only 12 foot6. And what what that does is in a in a in a uh in a building in 1926 when you were just

017running some, you know, heating and condensate return and radiators, you didn't need a whole lot of overhead space because you weren't delivering air. You weren't doing the kind of air changes, those kind of things. You didn't have the the same level of utilities, technology, electricity. So, and and we're trying to kind of uh match that floor to floors to to simplify the exchange and circulation inside the building. So that's one of the that's one of the challenges. And so um what that meant was that uh we we we needed more localized mechanical equipment because you can't send large duct runs delivering air and that kind of stuff from one side of the building to the other. So that that in effect does have some kind of effect on the on the square footage of the

018building. Um through a series of of plan refinements, we we reduced the square footage, but was primarily in circulation. At that time, uh we were able to get the um net square footage in the building probably within about 2 and a half% of what was in the net square footage that was published in the in the program in the in the original P. Um even even so, the the total building square footage was over. So uh we went back and we looked at some major plan changes. One of the things that we looked at coupled with uh thinking about how to uh reduce u some of the cost of the building not only in square foot but also in in construction and in structure and we uh we were able to eliminate a majority of

019the new square footage that was on the third floor. It didn't go away. It was it was captured on on the second floor actually. But what that does did is it reduced the uh circulation inside the building even more. So rather than having uh some areas where what we call a single loaded corridor other words you have a corridor space which is circulation and you have uh a usable space on one side what we have now is basically usable area on both sides of a corridor. So we're using less corridor to service the same uh usable space. Um I I'll go into the I'll go into the plans and pull up some of the other changes. Uh we have relocated uh uh health pharmacy and exercise science. They were up on the uh I believe

020on the third floor. They are now down on the uh Washington level adjacent to uh cosmetology. the public restrooms that were just go to this level. It's a good example. The public restrooms that were in the uh existing building that kind of are on the corners and they are kind of a really uh strange shape and very inefficient. In talking with Gil Bane and Ozanne, we were a we we determined that uh originally we thought we'd keep those just the way they were because we thought we would save some dollars. It turns out that the the piping inside those has not been changed. still galvanized. Um they're very inefficient in their layout. So we what we did was we we captured some of the restroom space by reconfiguring those. We recaptured some of the restroom

021space uh to use as program space. So we were able to squeeze the building a little bit a little bit more because of that. Also, um the uh digital video and audio labs which were up on the uh second floor are now located uh or were up we're in the first floor are now located in a in a bar uh of of uh academic space that is adjacent to the auditorium and the music spaces which is which is one of the things that we were trying to achieve because we think there might be some synergies and programming and curriculum between uh those two uh between those two departments. The other thing that we did was uh the mini auditorium was located back here originally, we moved the mini auditorium to the uh adjacent to the

022front entrance so it's more accessible to the public. And one of the things that happened was because we have the mini mini auditorium here in the conferencing center, we were able to eliminate a portion of the large group conferencing space because it's it's really duplicated. uh in that mini auditorium and and by doing all of that in even in spite of doing all of that we were still uh over uh the gross square footage we we were uh we were targeting uh around originally during the P we were targeting about 350,000 square feet and we were still up around 372 so we needed to do some additional uh cutting so to reach the building size close to the P projected gross area. Uh we were directed by the district cabinet to make additional changes. Uh

023and these changes included elimination or reduction of areas and and or taking certain areas as alternates. And that includes if we go back down to this floor, uh what we decided or what the cabinet decided was that the second highbay CTE lab would be bit as an alternate. So that's kind of shown here, this dash line here. Um at this at the pool uh we had we had 10 lanes. Uh we we were directed to reduce the pool to eight lanes and then to take the additional two lanes which would stretch the building out to here uh as an alternate. Um the culinary foods program uh was eliminated at this point. However, uh there is space in this area uh uh computer uh computer engineering is on this level and FCS uh the food uh

024program and in the future it if culinary becomes a program and and one of the other programs is eliminated we think that we can fit the culinary program into that area there. the black the blackbox theater which if you recall was located at the uh adjacent to the stage to the rear of the stage. Uh the blackbox theater was eliminated and in its place uh there is a drama classroom with a small platform stage uh that allowed us to move uh the scene shop into this space and that also uh move uh the uh uh dressing rooms and those areas adjacent to the rear of the stage making it more functional. the number of seats in the competition gym. Uh we reduced the number of seats in the competition gym from 2000 to uh to

025or from 2000 to 1900. Um wrestling room uh rather than being two full mats is now a mat and a half. Um another thing the there is a we are we are looking into uh we we'll see it on the site plan. We're looking into planning an exterior uh a freestanding building on the uh uh on the stadium site. And so there was a there are some locker room spaces, dedicated locker room spaces inside the building. Uh we are moving those locker rooms out to that building. So we were able to capture that space and reconfigure these areas over here in order to reduce the square footage. Uh the second large group lecture space was eliminated. and uh the project labs which are in these areas on the n on the addition to the 1926

026we we reduce those from 1400 square f feet to to 1200 square f feet. So essentially uh those are the those are the program changes uh changes to the to the P that were incorporated. We also were instructed to uh take a look at support spaces and to stay within the OFCC guidelines but to reduce those down rather than to keep them at the major uh uh but to take those down to somewhere closer to what uh maybe some of the minimum standards would be. So other than that um uh the the plan is essentially the same as I said before. Uh what happened is on the second floor uh the classrooms now wrapped totally around the auditorium space uh up on the third floor as you recall the uh classroom areas used to go

027around art. Uh this is now just the auditorium and the top of the stage house and the balance of the classrooms uh flank that in these bars. So we've really kind of compressed the outside of the building. We reduce the amount of skin on the outside of the building as as Scott has talked about because it's not just the it's not just the floor plate that costs money. When you build exterior skin, you're you're increasing uh the overall cost uh per square foot. So, that's that's all I have on the on the floor plan. If there are any questions on what I've talked about so far, just just on the the broadest level, I mean, I'm sure we all have a lot of specifics, but does with all those additional changes, where are you now

028for square? We are we are sitting right at about 352,000 square ft. And if you if you if you go back to the original uh PO, if you used it in the the grossing factor that was originally recommended was 1.3, that got you up to 349,800. So, we're we're pretty much back to what the original target was. However, you know, we you know, as you as you look at the costs uh and as Gilbane looks at the cost for actual construction because of either site conditions or um you know, the the uh complexity or the detail that is on the the additions that that wrap around the the 1926 editions, all those things kind of factor in. So, do we feel comfortable with the square footage we have? Actually, you you you'd like to reduce

029it more, but at this point, we're looking at if you if you look at the circulation, it's pretty darn simple and it's pretty darn compact. There isn't a whole lot of of area to cut in terms of circulation. So, the only thing that the only option you have is to look at at program. And at this point, we're not um we don't feel comfortable in cutting additional uh program square footage unless unless we're instructed to do that. Gary, one of the things that you mentioned um was the the need for I forget the phrase that you used the localized air handling HVAC somehow some that the square footage needed to be increased due to that expectation. Um does that change depending on which system we choose? That's a gym question. Which of the three options

030we choose. No, it doesn't. Yeah. Outside of the out in the space and all the classrooms and the academic spaces, the systems are exactly the same regards to the three choices. Okay. Thank you. And and if you if you look on the plan, what we've tried to do is is try to to put spaces, mechanical spaces, you know, throughout the building so that uh because there there there is a you know, there's a requirement for fresh air distribution inside the building. And so uh but what we have done is is we've tried to stack those spaces so that we get some some efficiencies going from floor to floor in terms of piping and that kind of stuff. It's also located right in the center. It's yeah 1926 which right it I was saying it was

031located in the center of the 1926 edition which because of existing columns um it was really a smart utilization of an existing space that allowed you to have classroom spaces on both sides of it. And some of these some of the core the smaller core areas in the academic spaces the ceiling heights don't have to be as as generous because they're you know task rooms or or uh toilet rooms or smaller spaces. So if there is uh any distribution ducks you know we can run them in that zone there without you know as I said before the floor to floor height is is kind of squished. So we're we're we're dealing with that. Yeah. Just a um quick question. And I I don't um I think on the cedar level you talked a little bit

032about the high base space up at the top there. Yes. And is that two high base spaces? This this right now what we're showing is is the um is the uh uh auto techn auto technology. If if we take the alternate which is the second high base space it would fit over in this area over here. And I think it shows up on it shows up on the site plan. Yeah, it shows up on the Washington level. Can you explain just for the general public what alternate means because that's a term we're throwing around a lot when at this at this stage uh of the of the uh uh design. Um, if we are if we're looking to uh uh reduce the the project cost, we would look at taking some areas uh bidding them

033and we say bidding because this is this is CMR, so it's not really exactly a bidding situation, but at this point, we're carrying some of those two spaces primarily the the the expanded pool and the expanded uh CTE highbay base is what we would call an alternate because at this point without having all of the information and without having all of the u uh costs in we don't know whether uh we can afford that space or not. So at this point we we'll carry it as a it's it's a number that's below the line and if and as we progress further we may find that we can incorporate some of this but at this point uh we have to uh keep within the budget and that's one of the tools that's used to kind of

034keep within the budget. Scott, do you have anything? Yeah, the one thing I like to add, this is real similar to what we did in the football field. It's something that is as we're collecting bids, we're going to ask for pricing right then of what it's going to take to do that alternate. And if we find through buyout savings or through inefficiencies and how we how we award the job that we can afford it right then, then we'll be able to award that. But we separated it out uh very early on early on in the job. So So if we talk about the 352, it doesn't include those alternates, right? It does not. Correct. Correct. Do we know how much square footage we're talking about with those alternates? It's another uh the pool is uh

0352,000 square feet and the additional high bay is I believe 3200 3200 plus the it's 36 like 3600 3600 3600 plus 2,000. It's about 5600 more square feet if we do the alternates. Yes. Yes. Okay. And the the they were reduced at this point because of the square footage requirements. The not because we have any I not because we know what the budget numbers are. What the budget estimates will be. No, no. I mean it's as simple as when we did the P estate was based on a square footage which was around 335,000 square ft. when you looked at grossing factors, when we went through this process and put everything in the building, we were at close to 380,000 square feet, right? So, we've been working to get that back down to 352 knowing that

036just a price per square foot, you have an issue there. So, the goal is to get as close as possible, create some alternates that make the most sense. I mean, obviously there's there's some larger alternates you could you could talk about there. Um, but we were trying to find the ones that that made the most sense to make those an alternate. My So you're so basically you're doing you're you're doing it more on a square footage issue as opposed to a dollars and cents issue. Correct. When we were working through this process. Well, the the reason I'm asking is because of the two the 10 lanes of a pool. I never I always thought we were just doing eight because the issue was we wanted to go from six to eight. So suddenly we had

03710. The question I would pose is what do those two lanes actually cost? Because to be perfectly frank, given a choice, depending on the cost, whatever that amount is, if it's it's a low amount, so be it. Go with two more lanes. If it's a lot of money, I'm much more inclined to do perhaps something else with the money or advocate to my colleagues to spend that money on something else versus two more lanes on a pool when I thought we were going just from six to eight. Now we're going from six to 10. That's why I'm curious about the cost. Well, that's the process we're going through right now. A lot of these documents we've been finalizing uh over the last, you know, couple months. you've seen them finalized in the last couple weeks

038over the next two weeks we are finalizing that estimate with these alternates so be able to re talk about some of those decisions because yeah because I think coming back if if like I said if it's if it's 50,000 which is not going to but if it was sure go ahead but if it's a half million more I think that the board needs to say hey we got half million dollars in savings or quote savings where do we want to apply that dollars and cents is will there be a time in which we can have that conversation Because with the I know with the stadium by the time we I mean we had approved go larger if the money shows up and then it and then it turned out it worked out okay with the

039bidding and then it it it worked. All of it came together. But I agree with Eric in terms of if I would love to know if there's yeah if we have a choice between spending half a million dollars on two more lanes or on a welcome center or on a blackbox or on a whatever it is. I would love to be able to make that choice and not suddenly discover we've already paid for the we've already bid out the lanes and we're going for it. Is that possible? Let me start. First of all, it is we're all uh the difference between the stadium. We didn't go through the the phases of design which was schematic design, design development and we went from right to working drawings and then we had a GMP and and my

040assumption is is remember we we're e even if you decide if it's a an alternate today we don't know where as Nancy said where the final budgeting is it allows us to to just leave it on the side let's say those extra two lanes and we might might decide uh at one point, maybe it's not worth having as an alternate or you might decide, let's keep it going and we'll go all the way till we we bid it we bid it out, which won't be till next spring before before that. We're going to go through a whole another process. Uh but we do want to have something if we if we find that we're not in budget when we get to the end of schematic design, having these alternates as schematic design alternates, then we'll

041re-evaluate it again in design development. we will come back to you and say, "Look, you know, hey, we found a way to get it. Maybe we don't need as alternate or we found something else that's more uh that maybe we should make the skin less or something like that as an alternate." And these are things that are going to keep keep changing. The great news is we're not going to put you I think one of the things that was difficult with the stadium even though it was very successful and we got everything we wanted through those alternates it we kind of put the board at the last minute make a decision. We're we're not asking for that today. What we're saying is we'll make one decision at schematic design and that'll that'll that'll put us

042at a point in time. We'll then re-evaluate all those decisions again during the design development and then we'll re-evaluate them again when we put the GMP which is about 75% CD. So we we we'll we'll actually do this three times. Okay. Yeah, Steve, I hearing you say that I I think it would be good for us to kind of uh rehash that time what that timeline looks like. you. Um, so when we get together in two weeks, maybe we could have that laid out again. That's good. That's excellent. Right. And u make sure that we know what we're dealing with. Um, I But anyway, that that's real real important as far as I'm concerned because we're not going to actually we're going to have a schematic design, but we're not going to have dollars yet.

043And so at some point we're going to have dollars and we're going to be start talking about the schematic design in the context of cost. We will have a schematic design estimate. Our goal is is in the next work session to present on the 30th to present a schematic design estimate. And remember it's only an estimate which again we'll look at. But even once we we finalize the schematic design and his estimate we will go through the whole process all over again. will start all over during design development. So that's why I think your your point let's show you that schedule that yes you'll make some decisions the end of schematic design but you may change those decisions during design development and you may change them again then as we get to the GMP but

044once we get to the 30th and we've got cost every time estimates estimates yes cost estimates then once we get there then the ne every time we go through and we redo it we will that will still we'll have those estimates all along the way. So when we make when we start moving when we as we're moving forward, we can kind of see what we're doing. That's that's and that's the purpose of this delivery model, having uh the Josean Gilbane team sitting with us that they're estimating as we're designing. So we don't find ourselves in the position when we bid it out that we can't afford what what we did. We we know for sure we can afford it and they're willing to take the risk of building it for them. Yeah. And I guess

045just in uh in the back of my mind there is a notion that as we're going through this process we're all the cost that we're looking at actually includes options around materials and stuff like that eventually I I don't think in the schematic no that's really the next phase more when you get to DDS you get more detailed um breakdown what we're looking at so that's when we're talking about different options for paint or flooring or all kind of stuff. Okay. Are we are are you going to take us also through the site plan now? Okay. Yeah. Unless there's any other questions on the floor plans, right? Well, and I've got I got minutia, but let's do the minutia. Well, like I did before. Floor by floor. Go through. You want to stay on? Let's

046do Let's do the outside. You want to do the outside? You want to do the inside or the outside? I do not care. As long as the questions get answered, that's good. I like that. We can go back and do the we we can go through and then go back if you want to go outside. Okay. Okay. Whoops. Oh, I did want to say one thing about the um I we do have a roof plan and uh as part of our due diligence, uh there are some opportunities on the roof. All those little all those things there are potential locations for future uh photovotayic or solar panels. And there's also space on the roof for a green roof or rooftop garden if if that is part of the budget if that is is desirable. So

047I throw that in parking and circulation. Um, one of the things I'd like to say about about the about the building itself, uh, I'm going to call it instead of a building footprint, I call it a a building roof print. And the current building roof is a is approximately 114,400 square ft and some change. and and and that represents in terms of roof area a reduction of 48,322 square ft from your existing building which means it's it's about 30% less roof uh storm water runoff than your present building which is a really good thing. So um that's good. Uh the site circulation uh is very simple. There's a drive uh that is on the east and there's a drive that is on the west. Uh there's limited parking adjacent to the building. Uh this is

048the pool back here. So there would be some parking for uh public parking for uh people who were would be going to the pool. Uh this is where cosmetology is and also there's the uh uh the AD's office is down here. So, uh, patrons for cosmetology could pull up and park here and go right into that area. Uh, there's also this drive would be one way uh going to this point and uh the special needs students are located on the uh uh Cedar Street level, but uh their bus could pull in here and park. They could go in uh immediately inside there. There is an elevator that takes them up to the Cedar level. So they have a very short distance to go and and all of the special needs the majority of special needs

049classrooms are on the cedar level right in this zone right here. So that works out very well. Uh the drive on this side is two ways. Uh there is a there's three lanes. There would be a lane for queuing up. The main entrance to the building for students who are being dropped off or picked up is here. So there's a lot of space. the uh the circulation that that now happens uh with folks who are pulling up to to drop off uh their students, it would still remain the same off of Washington. So that, you know, that's a familiar thing, but what we've done is we provided a much clearer circulation and then they would exit here and and presumably they would uh only be able to uh make a right turn onto Cedar. Um

050I'll talk a little bit about this in in a bit too. Uh, also there's a repaving project. We've been told there's going to be a repaving project for Cedar and the uh the city has kind of indicated that they are uh they are uh uh open to potentially relocating some of their signals on Cedar to kind of help uh the traffic that is coming in and out of the building both pedestrian and vehicular. So uh this is the main student drop off. Uh there is some parking here for uh visitors who would be coming into the main entrance. Uh there's a service court back here that is by uh that is by CTE and then also building services. There's a dock area. There is some parking back here for uh vehicles that for for uh

051folks who would be uh coming to uh either to uh drop their cars off uh for service or if the cars are serviced they could park them out there or there's some uh space for vehicles that are part of the program to be parked and there's also a workyard an exterior workard that is part of the CTE space that is over there. there there would be a gate here so that in the evening uh this could be gated off for security. Uh there's also a gate over here uh that would would uh block any traffic here and a gate over here so this drive becomes inactive in the evening. Uh we think that uh we know that that uh if there's a if if there's a large event where you're parking a lot of school

052buses either for a sporting event or for some event inside the school that this drive is a perfect place to double park a number of buses. Uh it can accommodate uh probably I'm going to guess uh at least uh 12 to 14 buses in that drive if not more if they if they park all the way down to here. So the circulation on the site around the site in terms of uh the vehicles is very uh very simple. Um pedestrian uh uh pedestrian traffic cir or pedestrian uh circulation is also very simple. Um we think that that this entrance is uh is going to be used also by students and uh potentially for events in the evening. So, this also besides uh the entrance on the west would be a focal point and kind of

053reactivates and celebrates the the original 1926 building in in the entry. The circulation again is very simple. If you're walking from here, you you kind of go there. If you're walking from over here, you go over there. Uh there's and then there's a a center uh sidewalk here. This is the existing sidewalk. There is a cross sidewalk that goes from from this uh sidewalk that uh flanks the drive as well as this sidewalk that flanks the drive and then connects to those exits that are the stairwells that are that are on the front of the 1926 edition. There's parking or there's uh facilities for uh for bicycles over here and over here. There's also uh a patio area that would be enclosed by a low wall, potentially maybe a a fence that is outside the

054uh uh the uh student dining area. Uh now, um I think I've covered most of the circulation. This this dashed area here uh represents uh parking on site for approximately 200 vehicles. It's about 190 some vehicles, but approximately 200. The the preference that has been been expressed by the city is that they would they would prefer that uh we have as little on-site parking as possible because they'd like uh the school to utilize the public parking that is over here. And as I said before, they are open to uh to uh changing uh some of their signaling on Cedar to accommodate crosswalks that would get u primarily staff uh from parking over here uh to the building. This this parking area um the existing your existing site has about 147,000 square feet of hard surface

055uh pavement. Um, the new site has, if you include this parking area here, has 156,000 or 158,000 over 158,000 square ft of hard hard surface pavement. If you if you would not if you would choose to uh not park on site over here, because frankly, what what would happen is if you have a lot this size, you are going to eliminate one of your ball fields. You can't you can't have both ball fields and a and a parking area of that size. What that would do though is if you did not pave that area, it would reduce from your present hard surface parking. It would reduce the runoff uh by about 37 almost 38%. Which again, you know, you have infrastructure, you've got to detain or or retain that that water on site and then

056you got to filter it all those things. So, um this is this is a potential uh significant cost savings if you do not do that. Now, there is an option to do less parking. You could do you could do uh one lane with a double row and it would fit approximately in the area that is the practice area. I believe it's used by your band right now for for band practice. Frankly, your your hard ball diamond does not have regulation uh uh lines to to the fence currently right now. So, it it probably wouldn't interfere with that and and the softball field uh could probably coexist with that. But that is that is another option to just reduce the amount of parking, but you would not be able to accommodate all your staff parking on

057site if you did that. So, um, one other thing is, as I mentioned, uh, during the, uh, uh, my, uh, uh, description of, of the changes to the interior of the building there, we are looking at right now, uh, a, uh, a freestanding uh, building uh, for the stadium. And it could go here, it could maybe go over there, it could go over here. uh programmatically it would have uh it would have uh public uh restrooms for both visitors and then public restrooms for the home side. It would have concessions for the visitors, concessions for homeside. It would have the football locker room which would also for the home team which would also be used for some of the other uh sports uh that that use the field and the track. There would be a

058smaller uh locker room for visitors. there would be a weight room and and potentially a small training area and then storage for uh any uh track uh equipment. So we we just started uh programming that we don't know we don't have a a exact size yet but u that would that would occupy this portion of the site. We're also starting to look at a master plan for the balance of this area. And then again coming back to this area, whatever the decision is on parking over here, we would then continue the master plan and complete the entire site. So um this this area that we're looking at in front, we we're thinking that it would primarily be lawn area because it gives you some flexibility in terms of programming if you wanted to use that

059as an exterior space. there's some opportunities in the back for um we know that we're going to have to filter uh the water that's leaving the site. So there could be some um bio retention areas or or filtering swailes uh as as well as maybe some opportunities in in some of these other areas. So um any any landscape I think that we contemplate for here would probably want to be indigenous and probably would want to be low maintenance. there are there is there is the potential for reuse of storm water uh for irrigation. Uh so that that is also a possibility. Those are the those are the kind of alleart things that I think that in the next phase you're going to look at in terms of pricing and you and you'll be able to

060make a a a an intelligent decision and saying those things are really important you know uh and we can afford those things or or maybe those things aren't so important and they're and they're too costly. So, um, that's where we're at for right now in terms of the site. So, any questions? Did in the in the discussions with the city, uh, I guess two components. one since they obviously want to fill the very vacant parking garage. Um did they discuss anything as far as uh improvements as uh lighting uh sidewalks making it a much more uh compelling uh travel from the uh parking garage to uh are are you saying on on their side of the street? On their side of the street, the lot that they own, not what we own. I I we

061didn't get that far in the discussion the discussion but um I know that um I think one of the things they talked about was that they are are um they have a way of kind of uh using ODOT standards and then kind of changing that so that it accommodates bic bicycles and that. So they are they are considering more more pedestrian friendly more more bicycle friendly kind of environment and and uh they you know we did have a discussion about lighting on our site uh but I believe they are I think they are including lighting in their in their uh repaving well in more and more specific dollars and cents the if they're doing cedar are they doing they're doing curbs obviously are they're replacing sidewalks in their project for Cedar Road. They're doing a

062whole streetscape. I don't know all of the scope of that entirely at this point. Well, the reason I asked is because if they're doing a sidewalks, the, you know, the whole length of Cedar Road, that's a lot of concrete and that's a big check. I'd like us not I mean, the reason the the real specific is surprised if that's what they're doing. I mean, based on Mayfield, they haven't done any sidewalks. But the the real the real issue for myself is is the sidewalks next to the East Field are like a foot away from the curb. It would be awesome if they're doing new sidewalks to move it in two or three feet. So, we've got more of a tree lawn versus, you know, it's not a fun that the football field. You're there's no

063there's no option because it's the space. But, if we could bump the sidewalk back on that portion of Cedar Road on their dime this section right here. Exactly. I think that would be a much better visual streetscape and much more uh much more pedestrian friendly as well. I'm I'm not sure if it's um even reasonable to get into these kinds of questions this early, but to your budget issue, Eric, um I my first reaction to using the space across the street and having less paved space on this site is absolutely. Um, I think it probably also has a a positive impact on our budget, but I would I would also be surprised if um the city doesn't require that the school district pay for the parking across the street. So, that would be Well, in

064our initial meetings, okay, in our initial meetings, and I stress these are very normal initial meetings, they indicated that that that it would not be at a at a cost. Okay, that's great to hear. Well, more to come. More to come. Yeah. No, that's great to hear. I I just I Those are all all decisions and components. Does the does does keep Does minimizing the number of parking spaces on site and the amount of paving on site also help us with the the different lead certification levels? Yes. Significantly. Well, it if if you if you don't if you reduce the number of parking spaces uh and the the amount of hard surface paving, it gets you some additional uh credit. credit. The the other thing is that you know when when you think about there

065is an embedded cost in there because you have to maintain that you have to eventually repave it because it's paved. Um and there's also things like snow removal and and that kind of stuff. So, you know, it just if you think about the infrastructure that's going to be required to to uh contain the runoff from that. Uh there's there's there's a first cost and then there's the the continuing cost of of that. Yeah. Yeah. I would agree. I mean, I agree with all that. I think that using this across the street is a great idea. I agree with all. I mean, the more green space we have, the better. I do however personally I would I think it would be u useful to the community to have a smaller amount of parking spaces perhaps between

066the two one because there's you know a loyal softball contingent who will figure out where they're going to go right if they're not there but perhaps as importantly the um when we do have things like uh the all school musical when we have these contests we're we're hosting a lot more one of the things that we've talked about is by making this a much more public space that we can have other groups come in. We they can use our auditorium, they can use the meeting rooms, they can use I mean things like that that we want to open this up to the community. And right now there's not much to support. There is, but I mean I think if we could have a little more parking, if not enough for all the teaching staff, at

067least enough for the community, which we wouldn't be using all the time, but some smaller amount than the maximum needed, but something that would welcome the community who doesn't necessarily know if they're just coming to see their grandchild in a show or someone's coming in from Solen for a contest. They don't know necessarily to park at the garage and walk across the street, but if they see a visitor's lot in the middle, maybe you do something like that. I I would actually that I was like I was agree. I like the idea of using the city lot. I think that the problem we right now we have we don't have enough visitor parking on the site. I mean even even to put the entire staff across the street um there you're talking a dozen visitor

068spaces in the on the site uh on the one side. The question I would pose is on the west side of the building uh north of the visitors seating area right now that is paved and is there's a it's parallel parking on this you have it as green space. This this section over here. No, I'm talking on the That's the home stands. The other side next to your bus drop off over here. Yes. North of the visitor stands. You have that is green. Currently that's paved with parallel parking, but you could do pull-in parking. If we're going to have a community swimming pool, we have to have more. You don't want people having to park. I I think we need to figure out within a even if we put all the park staff parking across

069the street, we need to ek out a few more visitor spaces in this design because you know what I'd like what I'd like to take away tonight in terms of direction would be if if if the if the board would say uh for a majority of staff parking it would be across the street, but we want to accommodate without without getting too encroaching with being able to maintain uh those two fields about getting it some additional parking either over here or potentially, you know, you you could you could potentially with some grading you you maybe could get a a this could be, you know, pulling parking all along there. You're you're never the the point is is that you're never going to get, you know, the the amount of spaces for the number of people

070who would who if you if you had everybody come to a a function in your auditorium, you're never going to be able to come. So, somebody's going to have to park someplace, but we can certainly look at we can certainly look at making uh for smaller functions uh making the site more friendly for on on-site parking without going, you know, the best thing to do would be to utilize the drives that you already have because rather than doing another drive and then doing more parking spaces, you absolutely you you already have you already have the drive there. Why not park off of it? So, we could we could look at that on both sides. I would say yes, please. Yeah. The um just a a quick question about the signals. Are the signals on this

071drawing where they are now or potentially? No. Okay. There's one here. There's one here. And there was another one down here somewhere. There's there's a city lot right here next to Wendy's. There's But there isn't there one right? No, there's no Oh, that's all the way down to Goodner, huh? Good. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Um just in terms of that area where that green space where the ball fields are, there seems to be excess fa space there. I mean that in fact we could have some parking there, right? Part part of the part of the problem is the way the fields are set up. Well, yeah, I was going to ask about that because you have a grade you have a grade change here because you you remember you're kind of you know there's kind of

072a plateau here that this that this sits on. So you you could you could move the fields, but then the issue becomes what happens when somebody hits a fall ball and it ends up on cedar, you know, but that's happened before. That happens now. Yeah. So to to short answer your question, you you could look at potentially maybe reconfiguring the fields so that they're more compact and then you could get you know you could we could we we will look at organizing that space um in a few different ways in order to kind of uh you know Yeah, I think that would be a good idea because I think we what we would like to do I think is to is to maximize the use of that space and I think the way it's laid

073out now it doesn't, you know, you got some over here and then you got some here and then you got a little bit there, you know. So, if we could somehow think about it in that way, I think that would be a great way to go about it. And and that process of of getting the fields back at wherever at whatever configuration, but getting the fields back to us to to use is already in the the budget at least for the overall project, right? Because we were pl the plan is to use all of that space for everything that you need for construction. Yes. So what we're asking possibly reconfiguration isn't going to add significantly if at all. I wouldn't think. Well, okay. Realize during construction you're going to be basically beating up grade and

074grass and stuff like that. That's that's not a big cost. If you're going to be changing rec reconfiguration, you're changing fence, dugouts, those are that's what's expensive about a ball field. We don't plan to touch those during construction. Okay. So, we'll have to consider all that, but with all I think what we have is nicer than when I was there, but it's still it's no uh it's no, you know, Taj Mahal. I think that yeah, with all the and even I think the batting cage was a boy scouts eagle project. So I think it'd be great to keep it, but I think that's going to probably that was like 20 years ago. So yeah, I think the I agree the reorientation of the fields with the home plates and what have you. I think that

075would allow us to have a much better field and like Nancy and everyone else said, we're going to have to spend money to restore it to a res new surface after construction anyway. So, this area where you were talking about uh parking buses, the bus parking strip? Yes. Are those uh lined up on one side? Is that the way is that the vision that you have? What we would typically Well, you couldn't line them up on one side. What we typically see is that when you have a large event that somebody's directing traffic out there and you basically park them side by side in in the lanes and you know that the Okay. So essentially if the event is going on those basically are closed off to everybody but those buses at that point. Yes.

076Well, your intention is to have that side of that that's supposed to be closed off. That that is not a p that's basically there's a gate there's a gate here and then there's a gate down here. So you you can you can close off this entire two lanes and park Yeah. park the whole park a whole mess of buses on that. Well, no, I'm thinking from a on a regular daily operation, we need to make sure emphatic that that is not an a drop off point for students. It's going to be for it's it's one way and I and I think that uh uh parents will get the only the only bus that actually is is coming in here to drop off is special needs. So uh and that can be that can be a

077kind of a control thing too. So if you think about the flow of traffic is it are you thinking Cedar to Washington or the both the other way? Uh on on this on this side you could you could travel from Cedar to Washington. Well you can go both ways on that side. Go both ways on this side. On this on this lane we're thinking that you would go from Cedar to Washington. Okay. Although although you could pull in for for for this parking, you could pull in and park and go back out because it's basically once the gate is closed uh when school starts or or during the summertime, it's basically a a parking lot that you pull in and then pull out at and the traffic coming out to Cedar uh the other side

078cuz I guess this would be going to Washington. This would be one way. This would you you it's right turn to the right. Yes. And when you go back to the other side, what it would probably I would think that at this side it would probably be right turn also. It may it may be right turn with a a uh from from you know depending on the the time of day it may be right turn only. You know maybe on the weekends or something. It's do we anticipate signals there or we're going to have to control that with with guard? I think that uh I think at this point, you know, we we would assume that you would still be using your uh security personnel to direct traffic. Do the city say anything about a

079de acceleration lane uh westbound on Cedar pulling right turn into the lot? Because I could see that uh potentially backing up. No, they did not. Well, if you're if you're dropping a student off, you would not be pulling in this way. Oh, well, you might not supposed to do that. I I think it's highly likely. I would think that, you know, you as much as as much as you can educate people or try to control people, I I would assume that people are still going to pull up out here and drop their students off on on scene or or over here. The other thing is that, you know, the bus stop is over here. So, you know, that's that's that's a great flow. And then and then from the parking area and there's a bus

080stop right in front of the building, too, isn't there? No. No. 7 AX used to stop right in front. What is What is it just to the uh the right in front of the building? That's what I thought. Yeah. Is it would there make sense bus stop? Oh, no. RTA RTA. Would it make sense to the angle of the two slant walks? Would it make sense to move them slightly closer to the driveways? I'm just thinking for the students. Sure. Okay. Because I know student behavior that are going to take the path of path of least resistance to the parking lot. There may be Exactly. I'm seeing a rut in advance. Yeah, we would we we would just pave all of that. Well, just paint the green. Pave it all. I hope uh Samville didn't

081have an aneurysm. I hope so. Excellent. Are we I guess are we ready for the what's next on the agenda before we go to minutia? I guess which is the exterior. Exterior. That's right. Control the uh where do I use these guys? This um when we're now going to look at uh we have some perspectives. We have um what we call precedent which are images that may help people uh visualize what we were thinking. Uh so we'll we'll start by looking at some precedents. Our precedents include both elements of the existing building as well as um other pieces of architecture that we found that we thought were relevant to um our project here in Cleveland Heights University Heights. Um we started looking at um um when we go back to the plan um especially the

082second floor when we made modifications to classroom space which if we look at the second second and third floor uh most of the program is dedicated to academic core. Um we started to think about daylighting and providing some sort of natural light to those spaces because most of them overlook um large assembly spaces on the east that being student dining and on the west side that being the competition gym. So um we started to look at elements of uh clear stories and in the current building um which I believe is the scene shop is where the existing um clear stories are in the building and they were covered up and I believe initially that was the vocational or the shop area um built 1926. Sorry. What are clear stories? Oh, clear stories are when we

083go to precedent, a clear story is is an element very much like this. I guess this room could potentially have a clear story right up here. Um, if you think visually about what what kind of space we're in right now, um, it allows natural light to come into the building from from that location. Um and and what's nice um when you notice uh when you notice the the direction on the roof plan, it allows for um northern light, which is the most optimal in regards to providing daylighting for those classrooms. Um so that's that's sort of where where we started. Um when we started looking at precedents, we we looked at elements like this in the building. We also started to look at what you can't see. Um, but as you enter the building from

084the north, you're able to see those sort of uh those great arch windows that were were chopped up in I believe maybe the 70s. Um, so so that those kinds of things we were looking at. Um, when we start to talk about this building, uh, the other thing that that we've always talked about is is the fact that the building's brick. Um, and those are some elements that we thought were important in not only the additions that we attached to 1926, but also the um additions that are are back beyond that line that we talked about where the architecture uh could be modified. So, we were thinking about an overall approach to the building. Um, and that's where we'll start to look at um um some some things like that. Um, this was this for

085those that don't know, these these drawings that we're showing right here are from the original 1926 uh uh package of drawings. And you can see some of the elements that you'll start to see incorporated into into the new building. Um, we start to look at at elements of brick that allows for openings that are larger than than 1926 yet maintaining a scale. Um this is this is an idea of you know providing some sort of opening in mass. Um we we looked at at at buildings like this to see how we introduced natural light with an idea of scale in regards to openings. Um this building uh you can see how they address that in regards to providing um verticality uh to the facades. Um, uh, this this this building right here. We thought this

086was really intriguing in regards to the clear story. And this is what we mean by clear story. And I'm sure that this is facing north. So, all the light is coming in there. And once again, you're noticing that we're showing sort of brick buildings and how they relate to to architecture like that. Um this is this is another another building where we you know we wanted to introduce some some sort of large glass openings in the student dining just so that you can see how it relates to the um existing existing context of a building that's more traditional. Um, don't you know these these spaces are are ideas that that we we kept in our back pocket um in regards to how maybe competition gyms and everything flow together. Our structure is much simpler than

087this. You know, we're not we're not advocating um anything like this in regards to structure because to be honest, this stuff right here um you know, bud budget wise, I I think I think my friends two two seats down would really um have a heart attack. Um but but we're we're looking more at at the quality of the space and the idea of of of the continu continuation from one space to the other making making the making the walls potentially making some of the walls between the spaces maybe even at the upper level more transparent so that you you actually can experience you know more of the building while staying in one area without you rather than just having four walls that you're looking at all the time. Um, and then this this became more

088relevant when we didn't um make the modification to the plan. But but what what what we liked about this, and once again, don't pay attention to the roof, but what we did like was the ability to maintain the existing wall. Um, especially when you go to the the first and the second floor, and I'm going to go back to the plan and show you where we were thinking. um when you go to the you know we're talking about this wall right here trying to maintain as much of that as we can in regards to the integrity of the existing building. So when you're inside these spaces you can see the existing brick work and you could see the existing uh what at one time was an exterior facade especially on the on the second floor.

089So that's why you know that's why we started to look at at what we call precedent. Um so those kinds of things you know this this idea of providing daylighting and we even you know we even went to the second you know we even thought about how do we do this in regards to of course the budget that we have and we have a scheme where we use simple joy which um which is which is really intriguing because in a large in a lot of large large volume spaces like student dining and that kind of stuff where you want an open floor plate um you you're relying on special structural systems. So we think that in regards to the economy that there's a there's a way to do this. Now we still have to of

090course vent uh cost and budget and everything. And right now um we already went through iterations of of where this can be modified in regards to that. Um with with that uh with with all these images we started to look at you know uh how do how does this thing um look in regards to volume and in regards to solid void. Um you know I I'll say this you know we we have windows shown um the the study didn't get into um you know proportions of mions and that kind of stuff but we do have volume shown and ideas of of direction. So that's sort of what this is. Um and we'll start of course with with um what what we had all seen before and and this was this im image didn't change that

091much. Um we started to work on you know things like you know how do we address uh adding adding windows to the lower level without it it impeding on on the architecture and we think that we went in the right direction in regards to that. Um so you can you can sort of see how that those things were framed. um we we started to to look at you know what happens at the entries you know how do we relate these entries to to this and and maintain that that architecture along Cedar um so that's that's sort of the direction then we had the line of um of distinction between what we call the uh you know the 1926 editions and the rest of the building you can see how um how functions started to dictate

092forms forms of buildings. These these are the lines of clear stories that we were talking about. Uh when we get to a later perspective, you'll see um which is what we call a bird's eye view how that looks down on it. Um in regards to to these wings, we thought that um even though you can't quite see it, but you see the rhythm of windows here, we thought that the rhythm of windows would continue on this simple form. And that's why we were pretty pretty consistent in what this form should be because it's about you know um the idea of academic core spaces and classrooms. So we tried to to maintain that that that sort of portion of windows and openings. As you progress along the site towards the north you start to see the

093change in grade. You start to see how the building functions inside. Um you have elements of of public space which is where we were talking about daylighting. uh you have other elements of service which we trying to keep the form simple and then you have other elements that are um large teaching spaces. This is the CTE um auto auto tech space. This is the the gym and then this this is the pool. And we'll talk a little bit about this element there. Um when you get to the the the the northwest perspective, you start to see the same sort of idea of elements. you know, we're trying to keep keep things um similar on both sides so that the building has a cohesive look. Um when you get down to this area, um there's some

094sort of entry into um what would be the uh the the the PE the PE wing and then you have the pool and you have this volume, which you know, you could start to see how we're trying to to pull this volume and relate it to this. Um this this element sort of is is um tells sort of the the picture of the story because you can see you know each each function is is is shown. Um you see the reasoning for the daylighting into the classrooms. Um we we we looked at where this should stop in regards to the building. Um we also we also felt that um which this image you can't quite see it but one of the moves that really helped us out was providing a constant roof form here that

095not only allows um you know the building to to shed to shed water. It also simplified a lot. So we were able to do that. you start to see the idea of, you know, when you go back to that 1926 um images that we have and and I don't think we have um hang on one second, we have all the elevations. You start to see the idea that this building has um that idea of the colonade that that was sitting right here. and you start to see how we're looking at how does this building look on Washington in regards to symmetry and in regards to um the central form of this. And you can you can once again see how we're developing these ideas into into reading um much like what we have in the

0961926 building. So that's that's sort of where we that's sort of where we are right now. A lot of it um had to do with how we're we're pulling all of this together. [Music] If you think about if you think about the building, although you although you really tend to experience it from the bird's eye view, the the roof and how it the roof is a very important part of this building. And um unlike the um uh unlike the 1926 building that had this you know kind of superior or ornate element that was in the center of it you know we we don't have uh we don't have that. So uh we think that you know the strategies uh that we're trying to employ if you think about daylighting is and Jim's going to talk

097a little bit Jim's going to talk about uh the HAC central plant but if you daylighting is a very very important part of this we we uh are required for uh lead some of the lead points to to achieve I think it's 75% of the academic spaces have to have have daylighting But it's not just that. If you know the more daylighting you have, there's an impact uh there's a kind of there's a an economic impact in terms of lowering your uh uh energy costs for artificial lighting and for cooling your cooling load, but there's also an impact in terms of of teacher retention and how uh students react u you know uh in terms of their health, all those things. So there's an intrinsic kind of thing that you don't really can't really appreciate

098and because the building is large and because it's compact uh as as John said a lot of the spaces you're unable to provide daylighting in a window so you have to provide daylighting in some other form. So that's why we've we've considered the the clear [Music] stories. Would we like to open it up for questions before we go to the HVAC? Would you prefer to uh kind of go through some of the questions on the exterior and maybe even back to the plans first or should we continue the presentation? I think I I got floor by floors. I mean, HBAC may I'm not sure. I think that's I I'm I only have a couple questions HBAC already, but I got a lot of I got a lot of other stuff. HBAC I got simple questions.

099So, well, I don't know. I'm I'm inclined to uh have the presentation and then ask the questions. Okay. Um, great. And you know, we've got we've made a commitment in terms of audience participation. Um, so you know, we we I don't know how much time we're talking about, but I would think that going through that is probably worth it. Presentation. We we don't have too much more presentations. I would say let's do it. Thank you. I want to come. Okay. Uh, we're we're going to have a presentation on uh Jim McMillan from Carpinsky on the HBAC, but we also are going to have Taj, you're going to come up. who's handles the existing systems, who's also been very active with the with the engineers. So, Jim, do we need to turn the lights down, Jim,

100or I don't believe so. We probably have to make sure that he has mic. That's fine. Right. For for this discussion is we're zeroing in on on the central plan itself. uh all the the HVAC systems outside of the central plan are going to be the same for all three. A lot of that is driven by the function of the spaces the the the natiatorum is going to have a special system the the large gyms and the and the auditorium those those systems are driven by the function of the space and then as Gary mentioned the floor to floor height and the academic spaces sort of drives the system. So outside of the central plant, uh the systems are exactly the same. And for so all we're talking about is is the central plant, the

101efficiency of the and the costs of the the central plant, the source of the heating and the cooling. And with that, the there's a detailed life cycle cost analysis that was given to the board and it was out in the the lobby. So I'll go I'll give this a very general discussion and then as depending where the questions go later we'll get as detailed as as the the evening takes us but I won't get into that much detail until then. So there were three systems that are being evaluated. Uh system one is a geothermal system which is 100% geothermal. The system is completely heated and cooled by a geothermal system located underneath the ball fields and potentially additional parking. Uh the second system is what we call a hybrid geothermal which is probably 50% heated

102and cooled by geothermal and then the rest is uh heated and cooled by supplemental systems boilers and and electric cooling for heating on the boilers. And alternative three is a boiler chiller system. Natural gas boilers very high efficient and then a high efficient uh chiller system which is uh each of them have their their pros and cons. Uh we had Ozan Gilbane do a cost estimate. So the the the first central plant first cost those costs are only for the central plant not for the rest of the building. And the the lowest first cost was the uh boiler chiller system at the bottom. The hybrid system was about 50% more, $800,000 more. And the geothermal system was approximately twice of the the initial first cost of the boiler chiller system. What and what what caus

103what what creates the cost between the uh the biggest cost is the underground geothermal field. Gotcha. Okay. And then then we ran what we call a total life cycle cost. It's the total cost of operating the system for 35 years and that's that includes the central plant first cost. Right. Right. So it's so that life cycle cost is the central plant first cost and the operation of the entire building. It does not include the cost of the HVAC system outside of the central plant. So that life cycle cost will actually be I don't know $10 million more than that because we we don't have the cost in there of the uh the HVA system outside of the central plant but that would be the same number added to all the three alternates. So the change

104in cost between the three would be the same. So this life cycle cost is the total operation of the entire building and the first cost of the central plant only. And so what we have is, and I'll explain as we look at uh the next chart in a minute, is the life cycle cost has the geothermal system over 25 years having a total cost less than the other two. Uh the other two options are almost the same. They're within less than a percent of each other. Uh within a margin of error on the other two, they're almost tied. Jim, you just said 25, but the document says 35. Which did you mean? I meant 35. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Um and the and again the total life cycle cost is all the utility costs.

105It's the replacement cost of equipment. So there's different equipment in each of the systems. So we said at year 25 of the 35 we're replacing some equipment in one system and not in the other. Uh there's the utility costs the the lower potential utility costs which we'll talk about next. And that's what adds up to total life cycle cost. So if you can do the next one, this is a life cycle cost analysis showing uh the blue line is the the bottom solid line is the life cycle cost of the boiler chiller system. The dotted line is the hybrid system and the dashed line is the geo system. And what really drives this is the projected utility costs. Uh right now natural gas costs are at historic modern-day lows. Uh they are uh 10 years

106ago natural gas was selling for double what it is uh today. So because of that we had to look at what is the projections for for utility cost increases or inflation rates over the next 35 years. So what we went to was an organization called the the United States Energy Information Administration and they predicted electric and gas utility rates for this area. Uh the inflation rate prediction for each over 40 years. This is their report this pipe. So and it it predicted uh they estimate or predict the natural gas to uh increase at 5 a.5% over 35 or over 40 years and electric rates to increase at 2 and a half%. So the the gas rate will according to this prediction rise faster. So that's why at the be the beginning half the bo the

107the system that weighs heavily on the gas heating is has the lower life cycle cost but as you get near the end with the change in uh in or utility rates the all electric system which is the uh geo system is probably 90% electric for the building uh then that in the end becomes more efficient. That's the real crux of this as far as the life cycle cost utility cost analysis goes is the predicted uh utility rates increases and and there's there's people out there gambling millions of dollars in 401k money on what's happening right here that we're just going with what the the US government is uh you know predicting over time. Did I have another one here? Uh and then the final part is the energy use intensity which is more of a

108sustainable discussion and this is the existing Cleveland Heights high school uses about 178,000 kilob Btus per year. So this is just saying that these are relative numbers with the amount of energy per square foot totally used per year. So existing high school is very high. uh the sustainable working group in their committee they use the term a building in the 34 to 40 range would be considered usable is the term that was used uh if you look at the energy star which is a national uh US department of energy website in this area a building that gets that is 99% better than every other building in the area would have a energy intensity of about 35 a half uh kilob use per square foot there's a net zero elementary school building in Kentucky that is

109running currently, this is a a case study I looked up at 18. And in our current analysis, depending on the system is between 20 and 60. And in our current analysis and in the uh detailed report, they're relative numbers where one is, you know, the one we have in there as the the geo systems closer to 20 BTUs or kilobus. That's more of a relative range. this the analysis isn't done. I'm not going to say that when we're 100% done with our design and the pool is designed and the kitchen equipment is designed that the number won't go up. But the relative nature between one system and the other will be one will be the geo system was half of the hybrid system and one/ird of the the boiler chiller system. Those relative numbers will

110remain the same. So with that said, the from a pure financial perspective on 35 year life, the geo system with the predictions has a lower lifetime cost and but the boiler chiller system is half the cost on the first cost that from a financial perspective and on both of them comfort will be the same. There's not a discussion on comfort or indoor air quality or health of the students or acoustics or noise or anything like that. All that within the building will be identical for all the systems and uh there's not an issue with uh comfort. Why does a hybrid system have almost the same lifespan cost and that much more expensive than the non-hybrid chiller system? Since it's a hybrid, wouldn't I I would expect a better rate of return on investment. Why isn't

111it? What? Because it's a hybrid system, we what we did was we uh waited it used more of the gas in the first half of its life and more electric heat in the second half of its life. when when the because it's a hybrid system, we have the opportunity to use say all electric heat in the fall and spring, but when the gas rates are low, we set it up to use the gas in the fall and the spring during the lower gas rates of its life. And then as it flipped over the other way where electric was low. So we we used the best of both uh conditions since gas rates are extremely low. The hybrid system you we set it up to use more gas in the first half of 35 years and

112more electric in the second half it's 35. So it's more it's more of a cautionary if something spikes it gives you more uh reactive ability. Right. Except in the in the very peak summer and peak winter, you're you're you can't use 100% gas because it's only set up to use maybe half gas, half natural gas. Does the hybrid require the same size well field as the full geothermal? It's about half the size. And then I guess my last question in regards to that would be because we're using the east field from for construction component does a how does that impact production the construction schedule? I mean, when do you put the wellfield in relative to the rest of the the project? Well, I would say one thing I'll let you answer is uh 10 years

113ago, we worked on the Bay Village Middle School and that's a geothermal system and the geo field was put in first and on top of the geo field was all the staging. They had stacks and stacks of block mixing, all the masonry, all the cement, everything. So, there was a major staging area on top of the field after it went in. So, it so that's something that can be done. So, I'll let you uh respond to that. Yeah, we agree. It's it's a non-issue. I was talking from a timing stamp, not not an actual weight. It's not a timing. Okay. So, so it's not an issue. Okay. That that was that was So, in reality, it ends up being the the decision for the board ostensibly is do you spend $2 million more upfront is

114pretty much from looking at the charts. That's the the principal. The principal debate is do you spend two million up front or Yeah. I I asked Taiish, the district's lead tradesman, to come this evening and um you know, I think he has some important uh insights that I'd like him to share from their perspective. Um they've had a chance to work closely with the engineers, take a look at these systems. So, Ta, before we take any more questions, I I really like the board to hear some of those some of the comments that he has. Well, as Steve mentioned, we had gotten an opportunity to to meet with the engineers and and uh and look at a smaller version of a hybrid system over at uh uh uh private school. Uh and uh by looking

115at it, we we had done our own um investigations as we learned that that some of the uh options of the HVAC systems that were being being considered. And when we looked at the full geothermal system and realized that there were going to be over 390 wells drilled, um we kind of questioned some of the the issues of the close proximity of those wells when uh from reading and and and doing our investigation found out that a a proper system uh well should be spaced at least uh 20 ft apart in in order to get uh uh proper uh use of that area. Uh also um earlier uh when I I first started getting involved in this, we were given the opportunity to go to Revena uh high school where they do have a full

116geo uh system. But uh noticed that that by them installing this equipment, they they installed the equipment in in a fashion that the OFSC kind of kept everything very tight and very close and not very um user friendly, including putting individual heat pumps up in the ceilings of the school to run to uh uh classrooms which made it very very difficult to service. In fact, they had to have an outside contractor every 6 weeks come in to service those pieces of equipment. So, as we went along, we found several things. The the the fact the size of the pumps that are being used for the geothermal field are quite large, between 20 and 30 horsepower motors to bring the uh um liquid up into the into the facility. and then pump it out through. Um,

117we also noticed that that that our staff would require more training because basically our staff is designed to deal with a um boiler chiller system as is. So, we would be learning a whole new field here and that would take some time. Um, again, some of the things we realize that if we go with a hybrid system, we're going to have to keep two types of of uh um parts on hand for whatever uh system would happen to fail at any given time and it will through the years. Um, and then we talked about with the hybrid field the uh ice tanks uh that would be used. It's a system that's used uh to during the summer to uh create ice during the cool night evenings so that when there uh was a high peak

118load of air conditioning uh they could use the ice to help cool the system down. And we realized that had to be buried in the ground also in the field and it has to be about 5t underground. Um the the system as a whole uh it it was impressive but uh also told we were also told that if we go with the hybrid system with the uh the uh ice storage we would be proverbial the guinea pig in this area because there was nothing close by to us that we could look at to see what see how that functioned. Um, again, if any of this equipment should happen to fail, the ice tank, we'll have to dig up the field and repair it. But the biggest thing that we we looked at is the space

119and size of the central plant and any air handling rooms. Uh we have always been one to uh we've been told in the past that the PM system uh is something we need uh to in start right off at the very beginning and if the areas that we have with with all this equipment are tight and compact because of regulations. uh the PM system the PM program will will be hard pressed to be enacted and uh I'm sorry what's a PM program PM preventive maint preventative maintenance program we if you can't work on a piece of equipment and it's not readily or userfriendly the tendencies are that the the system has it's harder to uh get that PM program started So with that, we were looking at again we got to look at a uh

120private school and the way they had had it set up was very open, very easy to maintain. In fact, with this system, the central plant actually had the pumps out in the open where they could be worked on and the room actually had an elevator that you could take the equipment out of. So I know this is something that is uh not the norm but it is something from our our perspective the trades grounds the maintenance department that we need to look at in order to do a good preventive maintenance program you have to be able to maintain the equipment easily and that's uh that is the biggest thing that that of what any any system you choose if you can't get to the equipment easily. It makes it that much harder to uh uh

121maintain. So again, I I can't stress enough enough when we they engineer or design the building that they designed these the central plant and and the air handling room to make it friendly enough for us to get in there and do what you need to do to to do the repairs for whichever program we go with. Yes. So, so when we when we talk about the PM, is is the assumption that the PM is going to be the same cost for any one of these three options? No, we have we have in the life cycle cost of different they're in here. Yeah. Yes. In the life, correct? Can anyone speak to the issue that you raised about anyone else speak to the issue about the number of wells and the spacing in between and whether

122it's possible on our site for full geothermal? Yeah, we've laid it out and it is and it is possible to fit it on that ball field area. And the the question of whether they're close or far apart or making sure that they're where we design them to be, I that's just part of the design that the contractor has to follow. So if we if we design something that's 20 ft on center, that's the way it's going to go in. I mean, there's there's not going to the contractor on their own isn't going to put it in something different than that, just like any other piece of equipment. So So we have laid it out. uh that it will fit on there. And what about the issue that was raised about the OSFC having some expectations

123around a smaller footprint for this equipment? Did I phrase that correctly? He actually what that's true is you've already heard about the square footage and and Gary jump in anytime here but how I see this is the OFC is or OFCC is very driven by square footage you know so it's number square footage right so it's got to be squeezed somewhere so it's squeezing mechanical space because whatever is not in mechanical space can go into programming space so it's just that constant pressure where the private school we looked at didn't have that pressure. Can I just comment that that pressure for us isn't 100%. We are following the the rules and regs of OSFC, but we have a lot what we call call uh um locally funded initiatives and part of that was some of

124the mechanical spaces that we weren't uh so we're we won't get we won't get their uh co-unding if we build bigger spaces, but the we are building a lot of bigger spaces and a lot of spaces that are not co-unded and we always planned on that. And Revena, for example, might have had would have had much more officer percentage. Yes. Where they were forced into doing some things that Okay. If we think about the geothermal system that's costing twice as much as the others basically. It's because it's we'd have to put it on the on the ball field. I mean, we have to No, wherever it would go on site. Wherever it would go on site, it would be uh so this there's not really additional cost if we put it out on the ball

125field. Correct. Right. The additional cost is just the cost of installing the underground system which is okay. Almost 400 300 or 400t deep bal pretty deep. This is this is a this is a closed loop system also. So that you know the fluid isn't it's not going anywhere. It's staying it's it's staying inside the inside the piping. So uh as as Jim said you know it could it could go anywhere. I mean if we had a you know there's the potential you could potentially put part of it underneath you know your driveways and everything else because that that's not going to affect the operation and your um Well, if it's 400 ft deep I can see it. I I was thinking it'd be much closer to the surface. Well, it starts. Yes. Yeah. When do

126we have to make a decision on I mean we have a whole lot of decisions. When when is it obviously but I'm looking more specifically from a design schematic and the whole nine yards when we've got a lot of latitude on some of these components but when is where in that decision-m process when does this decision have to be made? I I would I would think that we would like a decision uh by the sometime after the 30th once we've looked at the the the entire uh estimate in some way because once we start DD um we we we should know which direction we're going in DD is for the audience design development design development which is the next which is the phase that follows schematic design um and I I'm maybe Jim the question

127is is uh there is a there is a an area in the building that's designated for central plant and in terms of the amount of equipment space required for um central plant equipment do do you have any idea of the differences between the three systems in terms of the overall square footage that's required? uh not specific square footage but in order of the systems we had listed one two and three the geo the hybrid and the central plant the boiler chiller the smallest central plan is the geo and the hybrid is the middle uh because a big part of it is underground another part of the geothermal system is you eliminate some outdoor equipment so there's going to be some large outdoor equipment with the other two systems that would be on the side of

128the building most likely towards the ball field. So that equipment goes away. So aesthetically maybe ambient noise from the equipment running during the summertime would be eliminated. Numbers does the audience have this full there were yes that full document was available out front. So that was one of the questions you had. It said non-economic considerations. Uh the hybrid geothermal and the boiler chiller had outdoor cooling towers for heat rejection. Uh define outdoor tower and how 400 ft. That's why exactly. Are we just talking like a rooftop unit? You can put I would say for the boiler or for the boiler chiller system, it would probably be as large as this hive space right here. Okay. Wall to wall that high. So it's not like it's a threetory water tower. It's more just a it's like

129a giant HT. It's not like a power plant and it Okay. is I guess this is a a question for Fred and Scott. Is the um as you guys are budgeting forward, how are you putting in are you allowing $2 million for geothermal? Are you planning not on geothermal at this point? Are you where where does that money fit in your estimates? Are you we provided initial some of the initial uh pricing? So we'll if it's GEO, we'll have a a line that says GEO and the other one will say conventional and have to decide which you know which slot you want to go in. I don't know if I asked this before or not. The wellfield for the hybrid versus wellfield for a full geo are is one bigger than the other or they

130both. Okay, that's what that's I thought I wanted to make sure. Okay, it made sense but I wanted to double check because with my luck it would be the same size. Um, besides Ravena, who else is doing a geothermal or a school system that's using a geothermal as a as their system in uh as far as school systems? The uh the Orville City Schools a little south of here, they have three buildings that are all geothermal. Niles, which is an urban district uh near Youngstown, has three buildings, all geothermal. Their high school is, I believe, over 200 around 200,000 square feet. I I believe so. It's a large, you know, high school with large auditoriums and gymnasiums similar to this. Anyone in anyone in Korea County? Uh yeah, the uh as I mentioned, the Bay

131Village Middle School, uh the private school we visited was Fuches, Misraki, and uh Beachwood. Yeah. Uh I I don't know all the systems. Uh the ones I haven't worked on, uh the Kyoga County Public Library, uh most of their new uh North Homestead, Strongsville, Solen library systems are all geothermal. The downtown Cleveland, there's a Trinity Cathedral, not the historic cathedral, but the rest of the facility is geothermal, as is the Cleveland State Administration building where the president, Provost, and all those folks are at. That's geothermal. I was just looking for there's a history. Oh, I was just looking for other comp. Yeah. Yeah. Someone who's already done this and hey, what's your, you know, aside from the we obviously Revena, we got some good and bad bad feedback, but looking for real comps. That way,

132that way we're not putting this in for 400,000 square feet and we're the only ones who, you know, in our region who've done it. the Eric the difference between this this uh system and and Revena and other I would say earlier systems is is that this is a central plant that is really kind of creating the the chilled fluid or the or the heated fluid and then distributing it. Whereas in the other systems, you're distributing the fluid and there's an the heat pump is actually the individual heat pumps all over the place are are kind of doing the exchange and doing that. So in terms of I'm glad you said that. So this is not proposing that individual heat. That's correct. Right. So it's a you know so it's a big there is a significant

133difference and it in in some ways it it probably affects the cost somewhat of of that but it it's uh and I think in terms of maintenance it's probably less maintenance and the central plants scenario probably and there's some like the natiatorum that is not going to be on the geothermal system that's a unique piece of equipment that's specific to the natiatorum Uh there might be something else depending on the v the uh vocational program. There might be something unique in there just based on function uh the kitchen system. There might be something unique there that is uh um that may not be on the the geo system. So there are some unique spaces that you know the geo is not driving this whole thing here. it's going to work. And and like I said,

134the the biggest example is an auditorium. That is a very unique system that may have some interface with it, but it's not it's going to be different than the rest of the uh the building. Okay. We go to our last item. Uh the last item is a discussion on uh some of the CTE spaces and Gary, you're going to uh walk us through that. I'll walk you through that. [Music] Um, as I mentioned before, um, we made some horizontal moves with, uh, some of the some of the CTE spaces uh, on this level. uh uh h uh health health um clinical health, exercise science and pharmacy. Um over over here obviously um uh engineering tech is here. Uh computer networking moved up to the uh up to the cedar level. Um uh culinary is no

135longer uh in the program. Uh that's the directive that we were given by the cabinet. However, uh with FCS and potentially in the future um the elimination of computer networking, there would be space available uh for culinary arts. If that's a decision uh uh that's a decision for the board. Real quick, I have a question. Sure. If right at this juncture I guess if the is it possible to put if we continue with the we go with what's in the schematic here is it possible to run the when the walls when there's no walls when we just have studs can we run the utility lines for say a culinary program and just have it in the wall so that way if in the next six months or next five years we wanted to swap it

136what is it easy is it easier to design it and put the utilities in now and then close the wall and then if we want to change our minds in 10 years, is that doable? I I would I would suggest if that's your thought that um you know there will be some there will be some utility stubs that would would be in the wall, but there is also going to be a lot of there would also be a lot of stubs that would be coming up through the floor and that's a second floor space. So if if you have sanitary available, if you have water available, if you have those utilities available, it'd be fairly when I say simple, but you you could core drill the floor and run a lineup. OB, you know, if

137we if we knew for sure that we were going to have a a bank of of some equipment, we could we could certainly make stubouts in the in the walls also to accommodate that. We'd have to we'd have to allow some dollars for that, though. Change the complexity of the alternate. So, okay. I'm not I'm not throwing it out there, but it's a way to to give us that so that way if it's 5 years down the line and it's like, oh, we want to do it, but the to run all those utilities becomes cost prohibitive. If it's Yeah, that's an event. I guess I think if you know if if if you make a decision and we are let's say in the middle of design development, we would probably just change the documents if

138if it if it fits within, you know, it's a budget consideration also, right? uh and and that would that would be what was what was built. However, if you're saying you may make a decision two years, you know, one year, two year, three years, four years from now, um if it's if it's two years from now, the building is going to be under construction, right? So you could you can make those alterations, but if you're saying post construction, then for sure we would probably want to make some accommodation because the other thing is uh if you're running, you know, uh the sanitary line would have to be sized to accommodate whatever equipment is anticipated and that kind of stuff. But no, that's that's certainly doable. But it would the sooner we'd have direction on that,

139the better it would be. I just I'd rather spend $50,000 today. So that way that gives them an option as opposed to having to spend 10 times that in the future. So okay, uh as I said before too, uh audio and and video uh is situated here with their support spaces adjacent to both the auditorium and and music. Uh business uh is over here along with the school store. Can can I actually ask something about that? It's a minor point, but um on the last plan uh where audio and video tech uh that was just open space. I mean there was no nothing there, right? It just and I believe was the original plan to have windows there that looked out over the gym at one point or did I hallucinate that or was that

140possibility? Um, in any case, I'm what I guess I'm wondering is what is by putting those classrooms along the left of the auditorium there, uh, does that affect the view either from the gym looking up or from those classrooms looking down? I mean, is there still you're talking about seeing different There's the potential to have what I would call views into the into the gymnasium, you know, from those spaces. You know, part of the question is is with uh with video is do you you know is is that an advantage or a disadvantage in terms of in audio obviously and I think I put you know the caveat in there that that we've done uh major spaces that are acoustically separated you know and and so that you know there's always a concern but but

141you know that's you know to to separate those two spaces the gym and that or or even the any of the spaces above is is is is is a part of the design. So that's not an issue. I think I think the benefit uh of having these spaces u so that there can be some kind of uh participation and cooperation and joint joint use is really is the key to to kind of aligning those. And I think in some of the in even in the some of the uh in the uh uh the workshops that were developed, I think some of the little uh schemes that you showed, you know, you know, some kind of relationship between those spaces and and and music and and uh and the other parts of the arts. Um, auto

142tech is still down here and as as I said before, uh, the second highbay CTE space, we've kind of shown it here. Um, depending on how far depending on how far we get in terms of it being an alternate, we would we would develop this as a in in the plan uh, just like the other space uh, or just like it was originally. requires some kind of reconfiguration of some of the support spaces and that. But uh we think that, you know, it's it's basically if you think about structure, it's basically adding probably another couple uh bays of structure to that to to the end of the building and there is enough space on site for it. Um uh uh criminal um studies is here again still adjacent to where the uh u u wrestling

143room is because they use that for some of their exercises and some of their u de development. And that's that's pretty much about it for uh CTE. Currently right now we're um one of the directives that we got from uh the u uh the cabinet was to try and and and condense spaces as much as possible. So, we've taken tried to take, you know, maybe some of the support spaces and and probably uh reduce those somewhat, but we're still within uh probably about uh 5% or less of what the net square footage that's in the P. I will say this about um about these spaces down here. There is there is an FCS classroom that's called fashion and sewing. I I don't know right now if there is a actually kind of a an a

144curriculum or instruction for fashion but it's it's a it's actually part of SCS but it's aligned with cosmetology uh because you know cosmetology and fashion kind of go together so that that could be a program but there is a classroom here the other thing is that there is a classroom here that is uh called a learning center which is uh part of it's part of PE it's kind of you know it's used in the it's used in the evenings or after school for remedial kind of um uh attention to to students uh testing and that kind of stuff, but during the daytime there certainly would be uh it could be used as program space uh for these uh classroom areas that are down here. So, you know, it's more trying to look at, you know,

145cooperatively using the spaces that you have because obviously we're trying to bring the utilization of those spaces up as much as possible. also take. That's where we're at. Any questions? Any other questions at this point? Well, I got a lot of detailed questions, but do you want to take a break for There's a couple things that we still have an audience to go to, right? Okay. So, what we're going to do is that we didn't put out a signup sheet. How many people in the audience want want to speak? We have a question. Let's see. One, two, three, four, five. Okay. The question that I have you or do you want to do it before? Or after? We'll do before. Okay. Uh we're going to take a fivem minute break and uh you can get

146ready. What we're going to do when we come back is that we're going to have a couple of more uh opportunities for questions from the board and then we're going to hear from the audience. Okay. Okay, are you guys ready? We got a few questions from the board. A few I got mine quick. Um, we think that it's really So, Eric, yes. I need So, all right, I got a whole bunch of little questions here. Um, first one on the Oh, basement level or Washington level, I'm sorry. Got to get in the nomenclature. The Washington level. Um, no. Let me start by saying I like this. I like the floor plan. It's this is I like this a lot better than the last one. What I like the changes, the bathrooms, the second floor. I

147like it a lot. Most of my questions here on the interior are a little nickel and dime stuff. Um, the first one on the basement level, Washington level, are we still having to have that egress to the courtyard from the basement level? I'm noticing on the left staircase is that gray corridor. We're we're we're pretty sure that we're going to be able to get rid of that. Okay, cool. All right. But, you know, that's still um we while we talked to zoning, we haven't talked to the to the building officials yet. So, that still needs to be verified. That's why we continue to maintain it. Um and and um it must have just gotten erased on the other side. And then my question would be on the white space next to it, which would be

148Can you point John like you did last time for the audience? The white space next to marked as unexavated, but I believe there's some I believe it is actually finished right now or there's some quarters in there or something. There there's a corridor there, but that's really um most of that area there is about 5 ft tall. Okay. So, it's really Yeah, it's really unex It's like the other side. It's junk basically. It would it would basically be zoned off and and inaccessible. It's not worth the hassle, is it? That's correct. Because you have to start to think about shoring. You'd have to say no more building. Um the southeastern staircase, is there any way to change the geometry of the stairwell? So the we could have the door exit to the west versus the

149south because it was talking about this corner. No, no, no. The south southwest your other southwest. Southwest. There you go. because it well um we we started to look at that and we have to really do a section through the stair. There is that possibility. Okay. Um the is there I guess why are the stands for the basketball arena not centered on the court because we we've got like sort of the runover space offset there. Is that because of depends on what happens with these two points of eager. think what happened this this this may have just slid over and while we're we haven't really resolved this area and this area yet the and keep going north of that you have the lobby um a suggestion might be you have an office then you have

150concessions then you have boosters you might put the concession stand on the corner here yeah I I would do I would do concession boosters then the office just because it's closer to the field so that way it could get used and also I mentioned to Mr. gallas the possibility if we're bulldozing through the current ticket building which really no one uses um perhaps we had a ticket window on the outside of the building on a corner so you could use it for football games because realistically are you talking about the the freestanding building No right now you you're plowing through the current your your blueprint has this building through it current ticket booth so we're going to need a ticket booth for football games so my thought being if it was right next to the

151basketball arena we only really charge for two events basketball and football if you had a ticket window that way it could be used somewhere somewhere on the building here over here right okay that would be that would be a thought on that um let's see oh the auxiliary gent how did someone how does someone access that right here right that's a storage room somewhere over here do you have to go through the locker rooms or I figured they have as there there there is a there will be a Okay. Um the stairs will be a single I was just they were they've been stretching and pulling this plan a little bit. I got this one. Um the wrestling room. Why do they have their own locker rooms if there's a set of locker rooms across

152the hall? Actually, it's it's it's showers and toilets because my my information is is that generally for PE the kids the students do not shower and and the wrestlers need to. Okay. So, Oh, so so no, these locker rooms don't have these locker rooms don't have showers then. These are purely just changing just changing and that you know these these locker rooms would be used would be used for sport for sports. So they have showers and that because in general those Okay. I was just looking for you know. Okay then my next I'm moving up to the ground floor. Um again like I said I like the movement of the bathrooms. I like the squaring off of the uh the lobby. Um, I mentioned before and I still think again there's value in moving the

153school store from where it is to sort of the corner near by the stairwell. I think that the school store is is right here. I think if it's further into the building, it's more accessible for students during lunch periods and what have you because I think current the current store is above the social room so it's easy to access. I think if it's all the way over here, access if if it's all the way over here, I think student access is going to be much more limited if it's closer to the large public spaces. Um would be a thought. Um in this we don't have the those three those three stairs in the lobby. They're not in the drawing. I hope they're still You mean over here? Yeah. Yeah. Those are those are me. Okay.

154Um, a thought would be if it's possible if the weight of the the if the subfloor would take it if we could perhaps maybe we have those four exterior doorways that are going to go away and we have the ornamental stonework around there. So, a thought might be if we could salvage that and use it as to restore some of the architectural detail in there might if if the weight is possible. It's just Are you talking about some of the limestone work, some of the entrances that are being removed, right, and potentially using them as to create the vestibule? Yeah, some sort some sort of interior design feature because we've got them we if the weight if it's not an engineering issue, it's it's probably better to use them inside because of um the way

155that they were constructed in 26, right? Um with rod iron versus stainless steel. So, um we could look at that. Just a just a thought. Um the another question you've got with a library is we have this curved wall and there's column exposed. Could we just maybe square off that instead of having to spend the money and effort to remove that column and all the weight above it? Just a thought. Yeah, we're we're maintaining that column. We'll look at that. We'll look at that area for you. Okay. I told you guys I was going to look at all these little detail. We we cleaned up the rest of them except for that one. I exact. Okay. Um I like we're trying to make that as open as open as possible. I understand. I just looking

156we think that there's a lot of circulation going on, right? I'm just looking from a dollars and cents that you got to take it out and shore up the whole but um I like the new mini auditorium location. I think that's great. Um I think you've got Oh, on the other side next to the um special ed, we have a student commons of a couple hundred square feet. What's I guess it's a tiny little room. What's it going to be? It's not really a room. It's just kind of an open area where where students could, you know, uh pull up you Wi-Fi or do something. It's it's more of a Okay. We've the the terminology that the OFCC uses is extended learning area ELA. So, uh let's see. Uh I still I think the lobby

157we need a little bit more of a slightly more dramatic entrance or not I know I say dramatic just more of that people know it's the main of Yeah. This this piece right here. Yeah. I think we're we're working on that. We're we're looking at you know the way the stair works and and you know how how you kind of experience it the stair and everything from the outside the building. I because I like it reminds me a lot of the stuff that Studio Techn did for us a number of years back. So I like the idea of that large volume space. Um just we needs to be a little more a little more wow factor I think. Um second floor. Um I like the placement of lockers in the hallways. I thought that was

158sharp. Um I like the repetition of the the symmetry. Um and I like the the concentration. Um the only the question I would pose is the west stairwell is seems to have the same volume as the right the west the as the east stairwell but it's not going to have the same kind of necessity for dram for for drama. So I guess my question would be from a budgetary standpoint as much as I'm a big fan of symmetry if it was less voluminous is that going to save us any money? What do you mean it? Explain what you mean by less need for Oh, it's got it's got like a threetory it goes up. You got a threetory open space. Uh you've got uh almost two sets of staircases going from the different floor plates.

159it's a lot of volume for very utilitarian space or do you see that as being a very Well, we think that that um when you start to talk about how parking is for the building and and if the parking lot on the other side of Cedar is used that this entrance may be used more for um when you have performances in the auditorium. I see what you're saying. Okay, never mind. I got And plus, if if you really look at how the building's structured um there really is some sort of reason for it to be the same. I I I'm a big fan of symmetry. I like Yeah. Yeah. We We think that the the maintaining symmetry there, even though you may not see it, you know, it's gonna it's going to be hard to

160see the whole elevation at one time, right? Okay. Um the third floor. Uh question would be, you have the the small little staircase that accesses the current library or the former library space. Uh it's flattened out and then it's a dead end. My question would be, would it be efficient to just keep this the small staircase to access the art space in talking about this one over there? Right. The the one of them's going to be leveled out because you need it for the elevator. You're talking about this one right there. Yeah. What you know, when we when we start to develop this space, what we're thinking is either either we can maintain that or that could potentially be an area for a ramp to get to this area because we have to think about

161that. Okay. So, that's the pos that's a possibility. You're right. Okay. either maintaining it or reutilizing it for a ramp, right? Because my thought was you currently were doing that blowing out the wall with a series of steps was if you already have a staircase there, continue to use that. Um the fourth only thing on the fourth floor we have that bump out from the I know draw the eye of the vocal music but um from the street level when we look at the perspective when I look at the roof line we got these couple buildings that sort of those are existing right now. I know I is if there's any it would be really either give them a degree of symmetry so they're right and left or throw one of them away but uh

162well our thought was that they're they're now we're going to try and reuse and repurpose them. So but if we can make them a little slightly more attractive um and then my thoughts on the site plan I think I covered a couple of them. The suggestion would be the um if we have a gate on the west side, if we could have it be uh slightly better looking than chain link fence would be good. Um I mentioned the angles and are you not proposing to have stairs where you walk up the front or I guess I'm trying to understand the geometry you have for the front door. Well, you know, there's the there's the uh potential to to access those on either side so that you recreate this ballastrade that's out there. We also think

163that we're going to probably change the topography a little bit in there so that the difference the the grade the difference in grade between here and there is not going to be quite the same. Right. Right. I just I just to me if we're doing if we're really restoring the front interior to look like original at le I think we should go you know you can walk straight up the front as opposed to the side. That would be um but otherwise I I I we had the conversations previous about the I think the parking component. Um I I would I would like us to examine the reorienting the um if I'm mispronouncing that probably the two foot the two uh home plates for the softball and baseball if we had them closer to the uh

164the plaza area I think would be a good feature because it could draw it would make it more of a I say uh stands kind of a thing but it would be more as opposed to the softball home plates all the way off in the corner. Um if we could do that I think it would make it more of a a tighter space. You mean putting them back to back? Exactly. Yeah. Um otherwise I think those were most of my Oh, the last one would be do we have an ETA on uh real ideas in regard to the um out buildings for the football the locker room the concession stand and restaurants when Well, the the thinking is that they want it wants to be the construction wants to be finished uh for um July

165or August of next year. So, um, we're thinking that before Thanksgiving, we will probably have some idea of, okay, a plan and and and what the building will kind of like the one thing would be if we could have uh scalability with alternates would be ideal because I know uh you've been having to attend the meetings that we have. There's there's some some ideas to move that uh some portions of that sooner than later. So, the sooner we have something on that would be make me very very happy. Yeah, we've had we've had some discussions uh with with Kristen and and some other folks and you know um there there are some good things. You know, we we know that the the football lockers that that those are probably fairly new and in in good

166shape and I think they are uh I think they're manufactured by Republic. So, we can we can relocate those. There are some other lockers in some of the other parts of the building that we can relocate to. So, we're we're looking at, you know, not just looking at programming and planning, but also thinking about how to make it um more cost more cost effective. I guess you may have some salvageable materials from the Okay. And I think those were from the new plans. Those were all of my Oh, the only thing on the exterior I forgot one I like the exterior a lot. The one section I'm a little not thrilled about would be go to the side perspective. The way what would be the the exterior for the cafeteria and the exterior for the

167competition gym I think is a tad too uh in this at least from this schematics is slightly bit more uh contemporary. Uh if you one of your examples of uh design I thought was really really nice. If you can go back to your samples. Uh that one. Go ahead. That I that I thought was really sharp. Uh so something that kind of glassiness with that design aesthetic I thought was a good So guys, I thought this was a little too in my opinion a little too. You've got very 1926, then we got sort of very contemporary, then you got sort of retro contemporary, then we've got Red B. At least the way it's coming across from the three perspectives. Yeah. You know, we you know, like everything else, that's a starting point. Okay. And what

168many discussions? Because even even our office had a discussion about that form, right? And how strong it is. And if you go back to, you know, if if we maintain the clear story and you look at this one, you know, there's the opportunity to get rid of the the sort of saw to approach on the elevation. Yeah. I think that is which we we think that there's some valid validity to it but we realize that it's a very sort of strong strong approach. Um we did talk about that back and you would get a you would sort of get a cleaner line there on the clear story. I mean I like the I like the heavy use of it. I think it's it's very good for the northern light. The question I would pose from

169a roof the roofing material, what would be the surface? Is it going to be? Yeah, we we probably and and and this is really a discussion that we typically have with the CMS, but um it would either be um I don't know what you have in your in your estimate right now, but typically lately it's been going towards TPOS's um and TPOS, I'm sorry, it's it's it's a PVC roof. It's a it's a single membrane roof. Okay. Okay. which is probably what's on I don't even know what's on portions of that building right now. Um, but it's typic it's what's typically used and it's what the OSFC uses. We use it all the time. The and you could use it on slopes and with the with the number of those roofs, I mean, from a

170from a maintenance standpoint and from a drainage standpoint, uh, do we see that being having challenges because it's a whole field whole? I mean, it's it's Yeah. And and and we're also talking about the amount that we have. Um and and that's going to be uh sort of a discussion u that we're going to be having in the next probably month or so. Um what's different about um the way that we have our clear stories designed versus the way that it was designed in 1926 is we have a flat area um that you start to see being developed and you see it in elevation as well. Um and what can happen is that uh really um you see how this window and I don't know how how how everybody can see this but the window

171is raised up right uh we could really provide a point of drainage at that point. That's okay. Yeah. Because I was just looking from from a maintenance standpoint from a Yeah. We we think that there's a there's the there's there's the opportunity for that and you could start to see it um you know you see it right here. Those were all my questions. So, thank you. Okay, I got a couple. Uh, if if we go to the site plan and we think about the athletic field as it exists now, I know that we're uh there's a conversation you're trying to put together um some ideas about the welcome center. I wonder about the parking and well, I wonder how what's left there relates to the other work. I don't know who to ask that question

172to. You know what I'm asking? We've got I I guess what I see is that we're possibly going to put some park in there, but I'm not sure how is this part of the work, Gary, that you're doing. Yes. Okay. So you're the the whatever the design is on the other what's not done there you're working on that we're you know we're we're looking at the entire site you know we we know that the the track and and the field is done but but all of this space here we're going to we're studying as well as this part and and also that so it's the complete site. Okay. So that when we um look at some iteration, we'd be looking at some more development of this piece. Yes. Okay, that's my question. Looking at the

173whole site as opposed to just the center portion also helps us out with our um our sustainability because when we were looking at just the center portion, a lot of that was hard surface which includes the building. So this allowed the site to be larger and have uh uh the opportunity for a lot lot more grass. Okay. So, that's a positive thing, right? Okay. Um, now I want to go um well, there's a couple of things. The I'm there's a I'm assuming that the area that you had for auto tech is the same as what we have now. Do we know is that mean is that that's in terms of square footage there? That was in our materials. I didn't see it. Yeah, it's that you know that last thing that you asked us to

174get. I didn't have a chance to look at where is it audio multimedia business marketing. Oh, first one. It's first 6,400 in the P. So it's the same one. You're off by 29 ft. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Um, now when you uh I think you you talked about the wrestling being about one and a half mats or something like that. What what does that mean? A versus two, I think is what I heard. Yeah, the original the original request was to have two have the room be the size of two mats. And that room is really just a it's not for competition. It's a practice room. So the entire room is matted anyway. So it's it's basically the size of of a full size mat which is 42x 42 plus another half size mat that you

175know that was that was just uh Okay. So if the competition is going to be held where? Competitions would be held in in one of the other two gyms. Competition. Okay. Okay. Okay. So they would be bringing mats in to Yes. This that room is basically just for wrestling practice and and for criminal justice. Okay. or you know somebody else could use the room too. I mean for some kind of right exercise. Okay. Um when the earlier drawing when we had that space for culinary arts and then we see a space that potentially where it could fit now. It looks like that new space is about 60% of what the old space was. Am I looking at that wrong or what? Well, I I think that the the new space that we have includes um

176the food foods service as well as um and I'm I got to get the correct name. The uh uh CTE computer room. Um and the the uh Which one are you? I'm I'm looking at the the cedar level. The Oh, okay. And I'm looking at these these two rooms right there. Right. Right. that whole space, that per that pink pink space up there for culinary to go in there, you would utilize this whole space, which was the same amount of space as we had on the last plan. Okay. Okay. I I guess I was looking at it as that being two rather than one. Yeah. See, what would happen is if it goes to Colin area, it goes from two to one. Two programs to one program or this program gets, you know, somehow we

177find space in the building for that particular program. And that right now you're talking about that's you know I guess the so the the one space that you're thinking about utilizing right now is is what did you say it's computer it's FC it's food and consumer science you know the old it's you know home for oh okay and and computer networking okay okay and in terms of the number of spaces they're the same with this expanded one being the only difference and same as what we have. Yeah. The the question is is if you if you if you introduce culinary a culinary program one of the other programs is is going to go away now computer networking is up there could something else computer network if computer networking stays it could go to the space

178that for the program that is the other program that's eliminated. Okay. I mean, unless unless somebody says we're, you know, we go back to where we were before, which is we're providing space for for all those programs. Well, there's always a growth question as it relates to CTE, but it's, you know, I know it's hard to figure this out when we don't have it in place right now, but I think that with the world moving and discussing STEM education more and more, and we're, you know, trying to push that down in the middle schools, we ought to see a surge in the number of students that would be choosing to go into uh programs that are landing them in real jobs out of high school. So, it's it's a concern that I have, but I

179don't know that there's much to do with that. But anyway, that's uh just a question in terms of, you know, I'm trying to figure out how we would maneuver that five years out. So I would personally tonight, you know, there one of the other takeaways from tonight was or that I would would like to have is some clarity in terms of of U program uh particular, you know, primarily for CTE because I think we've kind of ironed out a lot of those uh things that were kind of, you know, floating around. But um uh if we if there was some clarity u we could probably plan in other words if um uh we could probably plan more appropriately for quote unquote some expansion in the future if we had some a clear directive on what

180we're supposed to be doing because there still seems to be some softness in that area of the building. Gary, I I think that's an excellent point and it's a conversation that I had with a community member this afternoon about some about that squishiness that we're I think we're all feeling. You all are feeling it in this process. We're feeling it as a board. I know the administration is feeling it. And I think that it it's not a good um we can't come up with the right answer because we don't have and this is Nancy Pepler's perspective um we don't have a good strategic view of where and what culinary arts will be in five to 10 years let alone you know or or in in 20 or 30 years let alone five or 10 years.

181And so I guess um Dr. Dixon, it would I think it'd be helpful at this point um based on Ron's questions for you to talk a little bit about what um how the um the doc what do you like uh the team made the re how you came up with the recommendations that you did and and shared with Gary's team. Well, you one thing for sure, we don't have a plan for culinary arts. We don't have one. We have a lot of people who are passionate about the program and about the opportunity that it affords for students, but we don't have a plan in place and a timeline is is still moving. So our thoughts were which of the two plans between a um engineering program and a culinary program could we start immediately for

182kids and that would be engineering. We have two STEM schools. Um we can um right now with the new House Bill 487, we have those um STEM education programs and CTE programs starting earlier for students. So we can begin those programs and classes around um STEM next year for our sixth graders. And then we can grow those programs. So when the new high school opens, we will have engineering hopefully more students um wanting to get in the into STEM programs and have those classes ready and available for them. Um for culinary on the other hand, it would take us um more time to plan an effective program, get teachers, get students interested in it and decide what courses will students take next year in the transition space for our students uh make those decisions. So

183what we thought would be best if we partner with TRIC and possibly um um Beachwood and some other schools. I think Uclid was one to see through partnerships could we give our students some opportunities beginning next year. We have an articulation agreement with TRIC. We can use that and and even take some dollars and transport our students to that campus for that program. So, we thought it would be best to um use the space for engineering and grow our STEM program and um partner with our um colleges and other school districts for our culinary program. And that was the and that was the rationale. And I think that's one that's one piece of this of this puzzle that we're trying to um put together for for um CTE. But it's a it's it's a longer

184term prospect than what you need for completion of the of the building plans. Right. Final question. When we talk about the exterior spaces and and and using more glass is glass and brick and that combination is it about the same cost? I guess I don't understand the question. Which is cheaper which is as each other. Oh. or glass is glass and if we just do the brick wall or the glass wall I know but glass is cheaper glass and brick is it you think that's a glass is cheaper it's a function of what the back of the brick is so I mean you have a face brick then you have a cavity you have the insulation you have a backup brick behind it that whole assembly is more expensive than just glass but the taller

185the glass gets the more expensive it gets you start getting really tall glass and you have to structural support for that glass. So, it's kind of a loaded question. He's good at those. Yeah. Okay. I got I I I got the answer now. I can talk about it. Okay. Anybody else? I have some. Do you want to go see? No, go ahead. I Most of my questions have I went back through my notes. Most of my questions have been answered. A lot of mine have to. I only have like eight more pages. So, um um no, uh some little just and and again, I'm not sure this is answered yet, uh or or can be answered. Um do we know how many seats in the mini auditorium? Uh no, we don't know that yet, but

186we're we're we're thinking that u based on the square footage that there's around 200. That's what we're hoping for. Okay. Um then the um the drama classroom sort of taking the place of the black box uh to some degree. Um what are the possibilities in that of setting up uh you talked about a stage a slightly raised stage in there potentially. Um anything for lighting sound? I mean anything to actually where it could become sort of a performance space. It's it's a small I mean it's a it's a regular classroom size. I would I would say that it's probably not a performance space in the sense that, you know, you're not going to bring the public in there to do a performance, but I would think in terms of having u if there's a when

187I say stage two, it's basically a platform. You don't have, you know, I I don't know if you'd have curtains and that kind of stuff. It's basically a platform. you know, you could put some adjustable lighting in there so that you could, you know, effectively change the atmosphere for, let's say, a student practice performance. You know, Eric, could I piggyback on that because I think the again from the conversation that I had this afternoon, the question was how at what space what space might we be able to use in this in this um proposed plan to teach our students about smaller theater space, lighting and sound and all of those issues. Um could that be accommodated? This is my question. for example, in the MIDI auditorium somewhere other than the big stage there there is

188there is the um and this is a this is a uh um when I say a programming issue it's a programming issue in terms of who's using what when there is the potential to use the main stage as a mini blackbox theater. I mean, you can set the lighting up and you can set, you know, curtains up uh so that you could use that in effect as a as a as a black box. Now, the the issue with that is who's using it when. Now, I've been in the auditorium when there's been nothing on the stage. I've been in the auditorium when there if somebody's been teaching a class in there. So to me it becomes uh an issue of how are you going to use that space on a daily daily basis. But we

189can certainly design the lighting and the rigging so that uh with some portable uh seating that you could kind of build a a little mini blackbox on that stage. Um that I just want to add that a theater consultant Sonia Wy was the one who actually made that recommendation because you have all the lighting, you have sound systems, you have uh rigging, you it it's an ideal space. It really comes down to as Gary said scheduling. Uh but one of the things that's kind of interesting is is you could still schedule let's say an evening performance in that on the stage in the black box. But the way the auditorium works, you could still have a lecture in the auditorium during the day because of the thrust of the of the possible uh uh uh

190uh pit lift. And so she actually was the one who who was one of the first to say, you know, to the cost of a black box of putting all of that equipment when all of a sudden you've got it sitting there on the stage house itself and it's a very easy space and a lot of lot of uh schools particularly universities use their stage as the black box. Yeah. I mean I have seen that done before effectively and it uh and even at a profession the Cleveland playhouse did it for a while. they used one of their precenium spaces and created a a black box out of it for certain shows. So, it is possible if if the intent is there ahead of time going into it. So, it's planned for um would that

191include is there anything for I know way back there have been discussions of possibly sprung floors for dance and things. Any of that in any of these spaces or is that long gone? Um I think when we start talking about maybe the uh one or two of the aerob the there are two rooms on the cedar level called dance aerobics uh right now on the Washington level these two spaces right here. Yeah. Um I don't know if we talked about putting a spring floor in but you know uh is there is there an issue with using a Marley uh floor in there? just a a roll out Marley or something that I mean I think both of them would probably you know if you were doing a lot of uh uh dance you know well

192not you know not maybe just gymnastic dance but but uh you know ballet or something else then maybe a spring floor would be with a Marley on top it would would be the ideal but you know for a lot of places a Marley floor uh kind of is suitable so that'd be great. No, I I would agree with that if we can. It might be also helpful just for the public's purposes that if that can be labeled. Right now it's just labeled aerobics, but if it's labeled dance aerobics because I think again a long time ago there was talk about room for dance and I think that's appealing. [Music] Um, I would second uh what Eric said in terms of um that entrance way on the cedar level, the far right or the east uh

193the eastern end uh cedar the and you said you already still working on how to make that Yeah. I mean, I hesitate to use the word grand, but if we're putting in that auditorium right there, I don't know how much that cuts off any vista a possibility. I know the main main entrance obviously is south, but um I would just say yes to you said you were already working on how to make it as expansive as possible and I think that'd be great. Um the art rooms on the third floor, do those still are we still thinking windows for those that so that the students can see what's going on at least at the front portion of it still? Oh, they they have right now there's they have windows. Yeah. If if we go to

194the perspectives um whether the right no they'd have natural light. I'm just thinking for the students to ability to see in and out because we had talked about that as being part of the appeal of it is students seeing other students work. Right now that would happen on on on the um I'm busy. It would happen right there. Right there on No. And then in the front you would be able to see but for the interior would be the Yeah. Yeah. where we used to have corridors along there. Right. Right. Those are just gone. Yeah. Yeah. Um No, we used to have along there. We tal about students seeing that. So, you can do that. We can do it still in the southern the southern area. Yeah. Which is again better than nothing. It's a

195little lost, but not it's better than nothing. Um and I guess the other thing is just out on the field. It sounds like I mean we do have to have a football locker room. Yes. Is that generally part of the plan? And we need a locker room for the football players. And right now team locker room team locker room because it's it's not just it's just not just track whoever else is going to use the field area. Um but we have to have some space like that and it was on the old plan attached to the building and now you're saying it's going to be potentially part of the outside. So that begins to necessitate an outside building then. Right. Well, I I think the the I mean I was the one who sort of

196the reality is that for two years you're going to need something. I mean right now our team changes in we have lock they use the regular locker rooms we have I assume the south gym these are the ones in the south gym that's locker room they currently use for two years there's no locker rooms because the high school's torn up. So the issue really ends up being you need something for two years and are you doing is it temporary or is it permanent? Right? you know, based upon the amount of money we're supposed to spend, I'd rather spend the money on on my personal preferences, permanent versus temporary. Um, the question ends up being then in the future, is it really the locker room that we're using for the game or is it the locker

197room that the visitors using? In my opinion, I think that's that was sort of the impetus for my questioning was we got to do something for two years and then what's the long-term benefit from that? So I don't I don't know that I wasn't thinking that hey this is the football team's locker room because I think from a game standpoint it's going to logistically it creates a choke point actually because that's where all of our home visitors are walking where where your team's going to enter the field. But I think the the key for me is at least is that for two years we need some they're got we need something for two years. That was the impetus for my but I think Eric Cobel makes a good point that if we're if we're assuming

198that that's going to happen then we're take cutting it out of the square footage for the main building. Right. Right. But have is that and so is that currently part we're budgeting for those out buildings then is the thing we're going to or not. We will we will I mean they're not an alternate or they will be an alternate or they're going to be a that's because we have to have the locker room out there. I understand the question. That's a discussion point because we've talked about a potential funding stream that's outside of the the bond issue. So, that's a discussion point that we need to have is how do we want to utilize this those dollars and what are the what is the budget for that building? But your point is is correct. We

199took it out of the scope of work for the main high school building. That's correct. So, it does assume that that building's going to be built because we need that space. If we decide not to build it, we're going to have to look hard at putting it back in right to the scope of work on the on the main high school building. Eric, can I piggyback again? Sure. Ju just to to to be clear or or for my clarity, the temporary structure that we talked about purchasing or renting, I believe renting for two years for locker rooms and other things. um was $400,000. Y and was or wasn't in the overall budget for the project. It originally was not not was right. Okay. We would have to if we have to put it into the

200budget, we would have to find other places to Okay. And we'll so so I I don't want to I don't want to take us off track too much on that conversation for tonight, but I think we have to remember what Eric just raised for Yes. and how difficult it would be to put it back in if we or or how ne necessary it would be to put it back in it somewhere. Right. Yep. Okay. I think that's it for my questions. Yeah. always give up football, I guess. All athletic sports. Well, yes, I am. Thank you. Superintendent Nancy. No, I actually I just I went back through all of my Okay, N. Yeah, I thought Okay, we're ready to hear from the audience then. So, what's going to happen is you can come up, state

201your name. I'll recognize you, I guess. State your name and then um we're going to you have five minutes to state your comments, questions, or what have you. Sam, thank you. Throat surgery has made it difficult for me to speak, so I appreciate the offer to go first. Uh my question really Well, say who you are so we I'm sorry, Sam Bell. What are the worst case? This is for Jim primarily. What are the worst case thermal assumptions underlying the sizing of the various heating systems that you have proposed? That is, what if we have 30 days of 10 below zero? Can you give us warmth in the building throughout that 30 days? What if we have 90 or 30 days of 90° Fahrenheit with 90% humidity? Can you keep us comfortable during that period

202of time? And are these LCA figures, the lifetime cost analysis figures, based on the current length of the school year, or do they take into account the possible effect of changing to a year round school calendar? So you don't have to necessarily answer that question, but I would like to see an answer posted in a timely fashion. And I remind the board that that has not happened on a regular basis. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Can I ask Will I be getting something that will summarize it? Yes. Yes. Thank you. I'm Laura Mars. I'd like to talk about two things, outdoor space and pianos. Um, so a few a decade or so ago when the district was responsible for keeping track of the gardens that line the Cedar Road garden beds, they were mostly full

203of weeds. Jan Kais came in and planted those. She tended them. Um, Richard Wongs tended them. It's sort of a rotating community thing. So Janna asked me to ask the school board, can she remove those? She's working with the Noble neighbors and the city of Cleveland Heights to create beautifification beds at the corner on the median strips of Monaceel near Noble. And she would like to remove the plants next spring from the cedar from the front of the high school before destruction starts and move them into the noble neighborhood. So, if you don't give me an answer that I'm telling Jan that she has your permission to do that. Okay. Um, Gary, I would really like to see on the schematic here, the site plan that where you say lawn area, please write green space.

204Um, Cleveland Heights is not fond of lawn. [Music] Um and we would the sustainability working group would like to meet with Beni as they work through the um landscape to design. This site plan does not have enough re bio retention areas. We need retention areas on on the Lee Road side of the football around the football field. And I don't see any graywater retention systems in the plan. Has gray water been dropped? Um, so, um, those were my outdoor space comments. Um, as the piano technician, I'm looking at just for budget, the operational budgetary planning. I'm seeing a need for three or four additional pianos in the high school because of the additional practice rooms on the fourth floor. So, I've been working for the last several years on a long range plan to on

205the flow of pianos through the district that includes action now, action in June, and action in the summer of 2017. And I would I've been trying to get an appointment with Steve and not getting response from him or Stacy to um start talking about the long-term plan, but I would recommend that we start talking about that soon. Thanks. Thank you, Ryan. Oh. Oh, I didn't see your hand. Did you raise it? I did earlier. Go ahead, Joan. Okay, let's All right. I'm Joan Spurl. Um, and I just wanted to, you know, say I I support, you know, pursuit of a culinary program. I I think it would be great. I I I understand your rationale, but um I went on the Beachwood High School tour and their culinary program had joined their big kitchen space.

206You know, they were separate spaces, but it had joined it. So, I don't know if it's a possibility, you know, for the future to just think about that. And I do hope that the kitchen that that you have in the plans is one that it will have the capacity for um for creating and serving real food on real serving dishes with dishwashers, you know, so that we're looking longterm that way in terms of waste and and um stuff. And I also wondered how many parking spaces there were for bikes. Um, I saw the little I saw the little space there for bikes, but I just wondered how many bikes that would hold. Um, and then when it came to um the geothermal issue, um, I I think you should keep in mind using the building

207as a teaching tool. Um, and geothermal seems something that would serve that purpose well. Um, and you know, think also about the long-term environmental costs of each of the um, options. Uh, so don't just think about your cost upfront. Think long term, not just about the savings that you'd get from geothermal, but think about the costs that occur with um, the accessing natural gas. um and um that it's one of these is a renewable approach that will be around 35 years from now and another is one that may well not be renewable. Um so look long term and then um the noise issue of of the systems is is an interesting one and I don't know if you heard the Diane Ree show she did an environmental outlook on noise and its implications on on

208health and mental health physical health um had a number of experts speaking about it and actually the issue of these sorts of systems um and the harm the noise does to us um was raised on that program. So, um, think about that, you know, and take that as a cost as well, please. Um, I think those were those are my only questions. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That was my [Laughter] Hi, I'm uh Brian Shainer. I have a couple of comments. Uh, two of these meetings ago, I came up here and I said something about the science department and the placement of the rooms and I would like to say that after that uh we had discussions. They were very interesting and uh folks listened and I think the improvements were made. So, we

209appreciate that very much the accessibility of you guys uh and willingness to make some changes. Uh, second comment has to do with the parking situation. And uh maybe it's a little too flipped with me to say that many folks in the room seem to be uh real casual with other people's parking places, but um not all of us are are uh we we all appreciate uh green space and we all want to retain water in the right places, but um mid- winter uh not all of us are going to be all that spry getting across the street to the parking place. Many of us arrive with stuff and instead of walking out of the building with our stuff, getting in the car and driving away, we'll walk out of the building, go get our car,

210drive it back, get our stuff, drag that out, and you're making um the whole process more time consuming and less user friendly for the building. So, um, with all due respect to the need to retain the water and handle it properly, uh, it would be nice to see a solution that involves, uh, permeable pavement or swailes and like they did at Cumberland or something like that that can allow some additional parking place on site for the staff. So, thank you. Thank you. Alan Wilkinson, just a couple of comments. There certainly was more uh education discussion tonight and I like what Dr. Dixon was talking about in terms of more strategic thinking on on uh curriculum. Uh two specific points. Uh photovoltaics should be a growing reality for the district. We can't quite predict the time

211and place, but that will shift the HVAC life cycle cost. Currently, there's nothing of that factored into it. And with photoaltics, the electrical cost would go down further. And the more electrical the heating air conditioning system is, the more benefit from that. So, uh, throw that out. The other one is thinking for maintenance folks, glass cleaning. You know, daylighting is really super and I want it, but dreary windows can be as depressing as no windows and cleaning them. Now, there exists self-cleaning glass, but it's a premium price. Don't know where you guys have factored that in, but I would encourage serious consideration of selfcleing glass to reduce maintenance time and and and it's going to be huge. the amount of glass increase the glass cleaning is going to be a huge task. Thank you. I'm

212Maisie Adams. I'm on the architecture and archive preservation subcommittee of the facilities group. And uh I just want to sort of get it out there that uh we would love to see since it was mandated in the bond issue that preservation of the historic core as much as done as possible. I think the the schematics right now are a hopeful sign. Um we have done walkthroughs of the interior and exterior and hope along the exterior that particularly on the courtyard faces um stonework is preserved, doorways are preserved um or renovated back to what they were originally intended, particularly the main courtyard entrance. um that any windows go in that they replicate the original 1926 windows and are functional as opposed to some of the things that have been put up lately and also that decorative

213elements are maintained. Um within the interior uh there is not much of the historic core that will be left and so beyond the auditorium we would respectfully request maintaining the floor tiles and the historic corridor that goes east west um I know there's some discussion on the beauty of those but they're lovely and they're historic and they've been there a hundred years and they're in fantastic shape. We would also love to see on the interior things like um railings and ballasters from the stairwells being reused um or maintained uh particularly the look of them so that we can maintain some of that preservation within the historic core. We know in the newer spaces it would be different. Um, as part of the archives project, we're identifying a large number of of pieces, plaques, photographs. Um,

214there's a bust. There's things throughout the building. It would be nice if there was a space. I noticed a mini gallery off of the entrance, the courtyard entrance. I don't know if that's for student artwork or if that's somewhere that we can put those plaques back up. I know we've talked to some teachers who are interested. There's a teacher of the year plaque. So, there should be some consideration of where those things are going to go back into the interior. Um, what else? I I noticed in one of the examples that you had, I think it might have been from Kenyon College. I don't know if that's true, but where they have the exterior wall is now an interior wall. any places that c that can be done where the exterior features will no longer

215be exterior, but those elements can be preserved and seen, that would be wonderful. And um we would hope that any additions to the all the additions would be compatible and sympathetic to the 1926. We know that there's going to be differences, but if you go completely contemporary, it will be a fairly glaring change. We'd also like to see if possible in the new spaces some of the stonework elements and the massing of the doorways and things like that replicated so that we can maintain some semblance of um symmetry not symmetry but so that everything looks similar even if it's a a different design. Um and then I would echo some of the earlier comments that that entrance on the east side should be substantial. The main entrance right now for the high school, speaking as

216a parent, is pretty um sad. It looks nice. They've done some great work, but it is not an obvious entrance to a school building. So, it would be great if it was more substantial and dramatic. Thank you. Thank you. My name is Don Frederick, 3585 Cummings Road, Cleveland Heights, Ohio. 26 year resident of the district, um, multi-year pusher on the issue of CTE. Still waiting for leadership. Our kids deserve access, opportunity, and equity. and it's taking way too long. Uh the culinary program, you know, a lot of us liked it. I think it's a good idea toward other culinary programs. Um when I first overlooked the project and the idea was to move all CTE programming back to the high school. There's like three programs here. Um I knew there'd be no space for culinary.

217I mean, it's just to do the other ones well and like we should with the accurate space there. There's no space for colon. I took a a Don Frederick estimate of uh the Beachwood space and I came up with a kitchen and serving area and all about 4,000 square ft. That little box up there that might be a culinary someday. I don't think that's anywhere near near 4,000 square feet, but I'm in it for the long haul. So, let's get back to focusing on these things. Let's get Shaker and Warrenville involved. I say this at the podium a lot. I just want to see things happen. Our working group has put together a lot of time and effort to study the culinary to study the options and opportunities of a manufacturing program, which would be

218excellent. And we're not getting any traction with the administration. I mean, I know the administration's changed. We have a new administration this year, but this is the third one we've been trying to get traction with on on some of these issues. And our kids can use these programs more than anyone. The programs, 80% of the kids that graduate from these programs go on to college. And statistically, they perform better than academics only students. So, it's a no-brainer. Uh, I don't know what what's going to take to get it started, but I'm in it for the long haul and uh let's keep moving forward. Yes. Hi, my name is Mario Mustandrea and I'm on the facility accountability committee uh for the lead in energy efficiency as well as I'm uh with the uh sustainability working group

219and I I'm pleased to see that you you're identifying uh roof space that'll accept renewable energy technology when it's ready or the the district is ready and it's suitable and um I have some questions. Uh, will your plans include conduit runs for that technology? Will there be roof access to maintain any of that technology? Will you will the plans include safety and fall protection? Will there be workspace for power conditioning and balance of system? Are there areas that you're looking at for future energy storage? Um, have you considered solar thermal technology for the uh south facing pitched roof of the natiatorum? And I'm interested to to um if anybody wants to take this question, can can you tell us um your thoughts on solar PV, the cost, the efficiency, and and if you feel or

220if and when you think it will achieve grid grid par, if anybody wants to take that. Thanks. Thank you. I mean, Steve, he's still writing. Just a process question because I I you know, I guess one of the things that we would do is try to take all these questions and put answers up. Yeah. I don't want to with the with the time we have tonight, I would take a lot of to answer all that. So, we'll huddle and we'll get answers to those questions and get those posted and we'll try to be as timely as I know. I'm hearing that and it it takes it does take some effort and time to research and get those answers and get them posted, but we we'll try to be as as quick as we can. Okay.

221Anything else? I would just like to say to to the community that we are still committed to designing a viable CTE program. We've not dropped any of the initiatives. We're still striving to work towards a comprehensive program, but we're trying to maximize the resources that we have now and really partner with other um entities that can help us put together a viable program. But we when we look out look at what could we provide for students right now, those are the STEM programs. What can we do immediately? What can we do long term is really build upon a viable program such as culinary arts. So I understand your passion. I understand the work that everyone has worked on for quite some time and we that is not been forgotten or we've not thrown it to

222the side. But we really want to look and make the right decisions and the best decisions for students right now knowing that we're going to have students ready to learn next year. Um, and we know that we can offer them the STEM programs. So, we're still working on it. Um, and something that we're going to still get input from others. So, we've not thrown it aside at all. And if we have to look at some other options um moving forward, we can, you know, uh we've talked to Steve and and and both Steve about some other ways that we can possibly provide those types of programs. Thank you. Anything else from anybody in that case? Um thank you everyone. Thank you again for all the steady work leading up to tonight. Much appreciated and I

223will entertain a entertain a motion to adjurnn. So second so moved from here. Mr. Cover. Mr. Kovville says yes. Miss Pepler. Yes. Mr. Register. Yes. Mr. Silverman. Serena. [Music]