001Uh good afternoon everybody. Thank you for coming today to the April 21st edition of what this current board's first work session. Uh thank you to all who are here. Uh it's an important topic we're going to discuss and look forward to getting all of your perspective and insight to help us make some decisions here. Uh so with that we will call the meeting to order. Mr. Davis, would you please do the roll call? Let's start with the pledge of allegiance if we could. Mr. F. >> You got it. >> All right. I told you. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Now we will proceed with the roll call.
002Mrs. Eichold >> here. >> Mr. Marks >> here. >> Mrs. Singh >> here. >> Mr. Summerall >> here. >> Mr. Tullus >> here. Uh with that is there a motion to adopt the special meeting agenda? >> Still moved. >> Second. >> Voice vote, please. >> Yes. Thank you everyone. Uh board members, we are here for a work session today to discuss the possible enhancement additions to our current construction project. And um for anybody who is in the audience or or who will be uh observing as we move forward with a streaming uh recording, we are going to be uh hearing from some consultants today that have prepared some work uh for the board to consider on financial options. So, first up today, we're going to have our partners from Bradley Payne who are going to
003present some options and uh we will help uh push their slide deck as we are directed there. I think Mr. Davis has got that ready to go. And we'll jump right in with our consultants for Bradley Payne to talk about financing options with the possible expanded scope. Again, we're looking at the possible addition of a performing arts wing and the renovation of a student wellness center. Those are the things we're going to be focusing on with these finance options today. >> Thank you, Kirk. Again, Doug Dalton, uh my colleague Zach Logan, uh we're Bradley Payne Advisors. Uh we were the municipal adviser on our uh bond issuance um that we did earlier um last year, I should say. Um and so today, yeah, we're going to um You have control. Oh, I have control. Thank
004you. >> Let's make sure I'm going. There we go. Um today we're going to briefly talk give a little update on the bond market. Uh bond market has changed quite a bit since we um issued the last debt for the uh project. Um so we're going to just do a little history dive there. U talk a little bit about bond security options uh bond method of sale options some primary financing uh analysis um and then the disclosures we won't uh go through from that standpoint. Uh just a bond market update. Um as I think a lot of people are aware, rates are going up, things are happening in the economy, happening in the world. Uh construction project. Um I'm sure you know costs are going up from that standpoint. Um so we just wanted to
005provide a little bit of background over a certain number of years in terms of how and what's going on. Uh this graph right here just represents going back from January of 2022 uh up to the current time period. Um so you can see where the 1 5 10 and so forth uh year rates um are are up quite a bit um during that time period. U the top graph kind of gives you the minimum and the maximum and then the change. Um so a lot of these are above well over 130 basis points 150 basis points higher uh than they were just in the beginning of this year. Uh the next one gives a good um good rate history going back to 1991. Um, and then just kind of as the rates have gone up,
006the rates are still good today. They're still at historical lows, um, compared to history and and averages. Um, they're just not as low as when we did our bond issue, um, which is part, you know, part of what we're looking at here. Um, this one goes back from 1991 um, until April of this year. So, this gives us more of a 30-year um, average as well. We go to the next one. Um, this is a year-over-year. So, this looks back to April 21 of uh, 2021 to April 1st of 2022. Um, again, as you can see, the 10-year versus the 30-year um towards the beginning of January, how much rates have gone up uh, this year. Uh, next slide. Uh, just just more data that we that we find interesting. And here's the uh 10-year
007history um going back uh up until April 1st of 2022. And then the next one is just the short-term benchmark rate uh which we look at and this goes back to uh 2000. And you can see again 2000 the ups and downs from the bell curve and then uh heading into 2022 the rise uh in interest rates from a short-term uh perspective. Um, next we'll talk a little bit about bond security options. U, we broke these down really into advantages and disadvantages. U, this is a voted general obligation bond, unlimited tax general obligation bond. Uh, this is what the district closed uh, back in August 2021 for 71,450. Um, that rate at that time was two uh, average uh, weight was uh, 2.316% I believe. So very very good rate. Um just advantages and disadvantages
008here. U typically these are a lower interest rate uh more secure to bond investors, longer maximum maturity, um increased revenues for repayment. Some of the disadvantages with this type of financing is just timing to market takes a lot longer to go through the process from offering circular due diligence and so forth. Um and then potentially higher transaction expenses as well when you get into um a general obligation um voted bond issue. Uh next we have the limited tax uh go bonds. Um these are um utilized with tax abatement compensation, tax increment financing, abatements, exemptions. Um these are a great tool to be able to utilize. Um it does not go against for voter approval. Um some of the important things that you need to have is consent from the state superintendent. Uh the treasurer must
009certify that the compensation will cover the debt service. Um and then there's operating enough operating um revenue to sufficient to pay the debt service on this. Uh advantages on this, it's not as low of a rate as a general obligation bond. Uh but it's very competitive in the marketplace. Um an advantage, we also list this as a disadvantage. it goes out 20 years. Um where maybe a geo bond will go 30, 35 or 40 years. Um so some people like that as an advantage. Sometimes that's a disadvantage from that standpoint. Um and it's a little bit longer as well. Not as long as the general obligation, but timing to market um takes a little bit more time. Um next, uh which the school is familiar with a lease purchase option here. I just provided an
010overview. We'll go over advantages and disadvantages on the next page. Um, most importantly on this, um, is the three bullet points down in the middle there. Um, these these consist of one-year renewable terms up to 30 years. Uh, so there's an annual appropriations here. U, so that does provide risk that it is something that needs to get voted every year as you go through this. Um, so sometimes that can be difficult as things change within the school district, the board changes, you know, those things that are up every year. Um and then the security of the district is form of a ground lease to the leaser. Um so that that sometimes um you know you're given it as a security is the actual ground. Um and that can be a disadvantage from that standpoint. So
011um let me jump to just some advantages and disadvantages here. Um typically u you know you've got multiple lenders uh similar to a bond offering when you issue this. Um it it's can be very competitive. can have a good lower interest rate to it. Um and then it's up to 30 years for uh building improvements. Uh the disadvantages here is it is a higher interest rate than a general obligation bond. Um you need to have some form of economy because of scale. So the bigger the bigger the transaction the better off it is. Um higher transaction fees, timing to market again, complexity. Um got to have a secure revenue stream to be able to pay the lease payments. And then the biggest one is the potential loss of possession. Uh because you are providing a
012ground lease to this. Um there is the opportunity if it wasn't appropriated on an annual basis that there is that loss of possession. So um that that sometimes can be a uh a big disadvantage in terms of choosing that financing. Um next we just want to talk about method of sale of options. U this breaks down in two categories. um public sale which is what we did with the issuance in August that was sold to the public to the investors and then also a private placement option where it's privately placed directly with a investor or multiple investors um including what could be a bank. Uh advantages on this um you've got it's competitive you know potentially lower interest rate that you would have uh versus a private placement. Um the district has the highest credit
013rating. Um so AAA which is obviously very good. Um and then familiar uh process from the last bond issue. So there would be you know everybody would understand what we have to do from a public sale uh standpoint. Um disadvantages on this timing to market. Uh that's a really big issue right now with deals that we're working on across asset classes. Um in a rising rate environment. um some deals that were potentially refundings aren't happening now or deals that are in progress. Um you know just from last month to this this month some you know are up 75 basis points. So u that's a disadvantage from a timing uh perspective. Um additional issuance expenses versus a private placement. Um going through the rating process takes time. So that's a part of that timing to market.
014Um and then you do have to provide a formal offering documentation uh by the school district as well which takes a um takes some time and as a process um from that standpoint. Next private placement for bonds um you know timing to market here is definitely advantage. It's much quicker to get to the market to be able to do your financing um dealing with you know which which can be a disadvantage. um maybe one investor or multiple uh investors or banks but just not as large as what you have from uh the public standpoint. Um it is a competitive process. Um typically when we do these types of transactions they're RFP to uh 40 potential lenders. Um so there is a wide breath that creates a competitive nature in terms of uh what's being provided
015there. Uh there's no formal offering documentation, disclosure statement or rating through that process. um there's more flexible structuring options um that you have. So if you were to for example prov get donations or have other dollars coming in that could be something with a bank or at a single investor you have a better chance of negotiating. Um and then lower issuance expenses versus a public offering. Um disadvantages here um is potentially higher bond interest rates than uh a public offering is going to have. Um and then documentation and legal fees. there is a lot of give and take going back and during that that negotiation with a investor or with a bank for example um that takes place as well. I know this is a lot. We'll we'll get to a Q&A when we're done.
016I'm going to have Zach. He's our quantitative quant guy. We're going to allow him to talk a little bit about um some pricing. >> Sure. >> I can move that to the lower one there if you want to. >> Good afternoon everyone. As Doug alluded to, you know, what we're trying to do here is give a real good synopsis of what has been a very volatile market and a widemoving target. Um there are several options from a security standpoint, as Doug outlined, that the district has um to borrow additional funds in order to uh engage in new projects. A handful of those have, you know, what we would recommend is uh much more competitive advantages in this market based on timing, execution, and the experience we had with other clients. What we've tried to do
017here is just for perspective more than interest rate given how volatile things are show based on our conversations with the district where a placement versus a public offering indicatively might fall for annual payments on different terms. This slide is over a five-year amortization and we have taken indicative rates as you'll see across the top from a private placement standpoint and those are just simple outlines of the um total annual payment assuming level debt service. the total payments over the life of the debt and then the interest obviously is the difference between those two figures to try and give some uh some color to what different sizes of projects would cost over different terms at different rates. So rather than you know talk through all these these are provided as information more like a rate sheet
018so that folks can see exactly where things may fall over different terms at different rates. 10 years and 15 years. Uh I just want to also really quickly highlight again what Doug said about how volatile the market's been over the past three now four months. Um a lot of the pressure is initially felt on the short end with the Fed's increasing interest rates to fight inflation uh not to make light of any of the geopolitical conflict in Ukraine uh and the multiple other issues that are being fought. But in short, what we've seen is uh rates rising close to 150 basis points in four months. And the expectation on May 3rd is that they will continue to rise to fight inflationary fears and combat um really given that that's one of the Fed's two main
019tools to uh defend these metrics. So these are here as uh you know really just a guideline and we can interpolate anything from there. But just trying to help give some perspective on what different options may look like. And I think that gets to the end of it. So I think just on on those last slides, just as you look at the 5year, 10 year, and the 15-year amortizations, you know, obviously the rates go up from a 260 to a 340 or a 280 to 350. So um the further obviously as you're going out, the increase in the annual rate that you have as well. happy to open it up to Q&A. >> Can you just do us a favor and go back to that uh the cops lease slide quickly? And just for the
020sake of everybody here or those who may be studying this after this meeting, um when we talk about cops, many people may not know that schools use this type of option to look at financing. Um it's something that we don't talk a lot about. So, can you just at a high level explain what this is and and how general they are in the public education realm? >> Sure, I'm happy to. Uh, cops, certificates of participation, it's probably best outlined on the previous slide there. There are limitations set forth by the Ohio Revised Code on the amount of debt that a district or any authority can borrow inside of their tax valuation. Cops allowed districts and as uh superintendent mentioned, it's very widely used and a lot of times to circumvent what might be constraints uh
021by either project term uh timing or just the ability to get around debt limitations. So cops are a very frequently and widely used financing tool in the state of Ohio, especially by school districts. >> Thank you. Sure. Of the different methods you went through, the whatever it was four or five kind of types of securities issuance, is there one you recommend in this particular circumstance we're in? We obviously have a bit of a timing crunch and pressure here. um weighing all those factors, the advantages, disadvantages, do you have an opinion on what's best for the district? AB: >> Absolutely. Did you want us to go down here for Q&A? >> No, you >> let's do it from here. Sure. >> Um in discussions with bond council Brickler Neckler, we believe that the limited tax presents
022the best opportunity. uh because even though it's limited to 1% of the valuation, so if that in round numbers is 1.3 billion um which means you get 1% of that down to I'm sorry, a mill of that is 1.3 million. several of the districts underlying communities in the tiffs associated with it, especially in the Kenwood area produce a great deal of cash outflow that we could use to basically wrap around and still pledge an LTGO with that security behind it. So we believe this is the most secure and by secure it also means would provide the lowest interest rate for the district and makes the most sense given you know the timing constraints and what we understand to be the goals to uh get these additional projects financed >> and this versus just a regular
023go bond. Refresh me again on the on the the major differences there. >> A general obligation bond is a voted transaction through through the public. A limited tax does not require a vote. Got it. >> And it has an underlying pledge. >> We'd be happy to get additional information from Brick or Neckler that can outline exactly how the the background of the LT works. >> Thank you. >> Oh, sure. >> So, one of the disadvantages you have for the uh the the unvoted version is timing to market. What would that timeline be? and how long would it take us to put this into place if we needed to use this method? >> Great question. A lot of the timing constraints here revolve around whether or not any of the options from a security perspective are
024offered as a public sale versus a private placement. Our recommendation given the constraint with timing and a rising interest rate environment would be to pursue a private placement with an LTGO pledge. that gives you the fastest access to capital and should still yield a very competitive interest rate. So to answer your question, Mick, from if this were a public sale, it would be very similar minus the voting aspect of it that timing to doing a a voted geo bond still have a a formal offering document, a rating, uh disclosure requirements, uh additional uh count uh underwriters and working group expenses. So, but going the private route would eliminate all that. >> So, a couple questions. So, with focusing on a limited tax, it would be helpful to know if we took it private versus public,
025what is that duration, right? Because to some degree, we need to make a decision quickly, but at the same time, we we do have a little bit of time, right? And make tell me if I'm wrong, but at the end of the day, we've got I I guess the question is what is that timing differential and then secondly what's the cost differential and then third is there a prepayment differential. >> Sure absolutely the financing time period uh typically a lot of lenders in the private placement realm will start to uh not participate past 15 years. So, for example, if you were to tell us that 8 million is the project fund amount and we go down to the annual payments roughly $700,000 in this example and that's too big of a number or too constraining,
026we would probably want to pursue a different option or you know, alternatively, if that's uh affordable and we can move to an even tighter term, we find that most lenders will participate inside of 10 years. >> So, let's say that we let's say we were focused on a 10-year time, right? What is that timing differential for underwriting or take it to the market? Right. So, private's going to be three months, public's going to be six months. >> Sure. >> Right. And then secondly, what's the what's the delta on the cost? >> You got it. Okay. >> What and what's the delta on being able to prepay or not prepay? I would say that a private placement can be from uh go to funding in the six week camp whereas a uh public offering probably 60
027to 90 days so 2 to 3 months and a much heavier lift as far as costs go um on an $8 million size roughly at least double for a public offering that would include underwriter rating printing ing um disclosure and not to mention all the the timing and interest rate risk in theory. I mean >> and which which market is going to be more volatile, right? In terms of I mean when you think about the public market versus the private market in terms of you know the the the downside to interest rates escalating over that time period, >> they do tend to track each other. >> Okay. to a certain extent. Um, over the past three years, if you had a, you know, economies of scale, if you had a transaction in the 8 to10
028million range, it it's a business decision. Do you want to go through all the the heavy lifting of an offering document, the timing and the rating, but knowing that the market's stable? Probably the best route. Alternatively, the private placement route, you're under no obligation to accept bids for from lenders once the RFP is sent out. when we send that out to the 40 odd banks and uh sorry I keep going the wrong way investors if the results were not compelling or acceptable we can walk away with no cost incurred. So, from a public standpoint, you would have a rating cost incurred typically >> that's non-refundable. But, um, I'd say the timing is about double, the fees are about double, and if anyone has a crystal ball and knows where rates are, I'd love to take
029a look. >> What's that that last component in terms of prepaying on the bonds? We have got a very good understanding with our lending group to accommodate optional prepayment to the extent that you know donations were to come in or or funds become available one way or another and the loan on a private side were to be called typically on a 10-year piece of paper 5 to seven years at par. So no penalty. Um we could take those bonds back from the investor without additional interest cost or uh premium >> once we push over the five to seven years. You're saying >> correct. >> And then what's the penalty during that first 5year period? >> You would be paying acred interest through the date. So you basically be prepaying the loan up until that time.
030>> Okay. The just make sure I understand that the security that comes with this bond that is simply pledging of our tax or potential future real estate tax revenues. >> Correct. >> Yes. we would look to the tiff revenues that were produced and looked at, you know, how long are those available. >> So, we can separately pledge our tiff revenue we receive >> as opposed to just the general real estate tax we receive. >> I think there's a little semantics there. It's technically an LTGO, but the back stop are the tiff revenues. And that's what we've been working with Mick to understand exactly what is available from Kenwood specifically and how much of that we could pledge against one of these options. that would make the, you know, the two meet and cash flow possible.
031>> Do we run any challenges like I know at some point those tiff are going to flip over right into into normal real estate taxes and I don't know when that duration is but >> yeah we have that duration list. Uh so that would definitely go into play in terms of how we model that out to make sure that there would be able to meet debt service. >> If it's not pledged against tiff dollars what's it what would it be pledged against? >> It's uh technically it is the tip dollar backs stop. So it would be outlined as such and the investment community is very familiar with the um I'll get you back to that slide. How the um I wanted to quote the correct section 13306 references how that is an LTGO pledge with
032a tax back stop. Yeah. >> So basically in order to do this program we're pledging it against TIFF CRA or the enterprise zone. >> Correct. Those are the options from an abatement standpoint. And then then the three items here are the ones that are important, you know, to get approval from the state superintendent. Make sure that the treasurer basically is signing off and saying there's sufficient revenue and we can do this. >> So let's say we go with the limited tax go bond option. Okay, that's what you recommend. Obviously, we'll continue to talk about that. We go with that. We pick a duration and then how soon do we get the rates locked in? When does that happen? We would propose to send out an RFP uh a term sheet basically to all these lenders
033um typically if it's a sixw week type time frame uh within 3 weeks or so and we typically give them 10 days to review the analysis and once their term sheets are put in place we let them know what our closing timeline expectation is and they need to hold the rate through that time period. So a month plus or minus >> end of June >> relatively quickly. Um, and at that point it does become more of a negotiation with the institution where we can modify and tweak things and say, "We appreciate what you've given us. Now we'd like to make these additional changes." We give them as best parameters as we can based on what we perceive the need to be and then try to fine-tune that once we get feedback. So regardless of which
034direction we might go, is taking on this in addition to what we already have, would any of this impact our AAA bond rating? >> Uh, this would be completely separate from that and the AAA rating is um very sustainable under these metrics. What questions are we not asking? What are the blind spots that you guys see that we are not seeing? Is there any out there? >> Um, I mean, you know, an example like this tiff revenues, you know, they can change. I mean, that's where you really want to make sure you have enough coverage ratio there that if tax rates did go down or something happened that there's still going to be an assessment of those tiff revenues or tiff dollars to be able to provide sufficient revenue there. So, I mean that's a
035part of what when we go through this process that we have. So, I mean you're not seeing it here, but that would be something that on the back end we would be looking at to see if there's concern. >> Just to I guess two questions. One, have we done that math? And secondly, it seems to me that would only lessen the security to the bond holder. It wouldn't a future change in value wouldn't change our repayment obligation. It would just technically lessen the value of that security. >> Yeah, correct. Yeah. Yeah. Because there's just less revenue coming in. >> There's not any kind of like default provision in these bonds. If recession hits and the market of Kenwood drops, we don't trigger any kind of loan covenant default or anything. Um, we'll we'll check with
036bond council on that um and and give you a better answer from their perspective. I would just add that um almost all of our clients are going through a very similar experience right now where they're trying to you know meet what were you know originally planned expectations and thought that everything would come to fruition under the original borrowing amount. So this is not uncommon at all. Um, and everyone is fighting fast and furious to try to secure funds as quickly as possible under the best means. >> So from your perspective, from a risk analysis, >> you look at what we're talking about here today >> and you see that this is something that is not being too overly risky as far as what we're talking about. >> That that is correct. Y >> just to
037your point what you just made, right? You're seeing a lot of this in other school districts. Absolutely. >> It matters to us if we want to follow that. I'm just trying to get the narrative what's going on, what you see in the marketplace. >> Absolutely. 100%. Yep. >> And and then looking at numbers where an annual payment would be here from a private placement perspective. For example, there's a lot of revenue coming in from the tiff perspective as well. So we don't initially see that to be an issue. >> Right. So if you know I think a half year off of Kenwood was millions of dollars and eight year or I'm sorry 8 million I need to go up a line. um 8 million on a private option for 10 years is still under a
038million. >> Tiff tiff revenue is currently at about $6.2 million per year on the nine profit. >> But but to be clear, if we don't issue this debt, we're using those tiff dollars for other general fund purposes. >> Correct. >> Right. Okay. And then a question I should have asked, I'm assuming these rates are fixed throughout the term of the bond or can the rates fluctuate? >> No, we we mandate a fixed rate. >> Yeah. Yeah. that would be part of the negotiation with the bank and so forth. So just like the call provisions and other things that we would want to put in there. >> You guys did a good job with the other issuance. So thank you for that. >> Good. Thank you. >> You said this earlier, but how many institutions will
039you go out and shop this with again? >> It's roughly 40. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Approximately. And we've had very good participation from I'd say 10 to 15 but we never preclude some because occasionally their flow of funds is all different you know it's very uh you can rely on the bigger bank you know the local fifths PNC's so and but then the chases city groups um will come in the Wells Fargo etc especially on a credit like this >> and Doug can you speak to a little bit just for the folks that are watching you know obviously ly your firm works on our behalf to really negotiate hard and you know and that's what you all did with the bond issuance with mix great work. Can you explain a little bit just how
040you're you would act as sort of the fiduciary for us? I think that's important for people to understand. >> Absolutely. Yeah, we're registered with the SEC and the MSRB. So by federal we have a fidiciary responsibility to all of our clients uh that we work with from that perspective. So we have the best interest of the school district at heart when we go to these um so yeah it's working with Kirk and and every Mick and everybody the whole team and when we go to a market for example with those 40 banks I mean we're working with what are the ideal terms for us right we don't anticipate seeing a um not not a large just like when we did the bond issue it's AAA it's very attractive uh financing uh we would anticipate the
041same thing here so u we have all of these school districts in our in our interest when we go to the market and do those types of things. >> Thanks. >> So, this is actually a question for Mick. At what point, Mick, um, can we see all of this, all these numbers in context with our regular operating budget, our five-year plan, the current $77 million bond, and this? So the current bond really is beside um exclusive of of what we're looking at today because that has its own separate fund. Um that tax revenue is collected specifically to pay down the debt service of those bonds. Uh what we would look at here is um if you can think of this in terms of um as we talked about going through the needs for more operating
042funds, we looked at our operating revenue and saw that it was only it's only going to move up a little bit, you know, we're going to have a very flat a flat line as far as that moves and our expenditures will move up at a a little bit higher of a line and at some point those two will intersect and we will go back into deficit spending. So, what we need to look at here is how fast would this debt service drive us back into that deficit spending should we not receive any more uh lines of revenue in order to help offset some of the payments here. So, as I'm putting together the May forecast, um, I am looking at some of those and I can have some of those examples together, but I think
043from a a very high level, it's really just thinking of how fast will those two lines intersect if we add a certain amount of debt service to the to the equation. >> And just to add to that, Mick, is it possible when you're doing that modeling, we could look at a best and worst case scenario? >> Absolutely. I can put together as many scenarios as you like. Thank just the two will be good. >> Okay. >> Other questions at this time for Brad? >> No, I just think it's important to say I mean when we look at the 5-year forecast where it is right now, we're in a pretty solid shape. you know, in my opinion, to take on that service. Obviously, depends on one, what the amount is and b what the term is,
044but you know, based off of what you guys are talking in a 10-year range or those numbers, I mean, we're not going to be in a deficit spending situation even within those first five years. You know, again, that's going to require some further analysis analysis to see where those two lines intersect. Um there are some other options that we could use potentially our cash reserve carryover uh to help offset some of the dollars that we would potentially borrow through this um to save interest total interest over time. So, there are some some other options out there for us to um analyze and to make sure that we're spending our money the best we can if we choose to move forward with this. And then also with the hope that we can start another revenue stream
045in order to help offset some of these expenses. If there are other questions that come up, we'll have a little bit of time and then obviously we'll have some time after this work session prior to the next meeting. Uh if we get further questions, we'll we'll be in touch. Um thank you gentlemen and they'll be here again until the end of the work session if there are other questions that come up during the next piece of the the presentation. >> Thank you. >> Appreciate your time. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> So we also have our project team members with us here today, board members, and we are going to again just do a highlevel efficient overview here. some of the um images and renderings and budget sheets you've already seen at the last board
046meeting and there are a couple of other looks u but we have our entire project team here to weigh in if you have any highle questions um so if we can go through that slide deck um and I'm not sure if Amy you want to kind of talk through that but we have that Chris >> oh Chris there you are okay have that as well um and I know that you just added a couple of new images from last week but we could revisit a couple of those budget slides as well. >> If you would all introduce yourselves again too, just for people who are watching at home maybe for the first time or who that go back and watch this later. >> Thank you. >> Well, I'm Holly McClean. I'm with MCS and Associates.
047We help represent the district in uh contractual and program management and construction issues. Um what we're going to look at today a little bit is the scope content that you guys have seen before. A little bit of the um overview of budget and what we're anticipating. Um some of the construction trends that we're watching out uh verse time and budget and then also um looking at how this impacts your schedule overall. U Chris PC with MSA Design. I know we've been up here a few times talking through the different projects. So, as Hie mentioned, we just want to kind of give a a little a bit more of an overview some of the things that were presented at the last couple board meetings um with the uh the different projects that we've been talking through.
048So, we'll talk pull that maybe Chris before you start. I don't want to interrupt your time while you're presenting, but this is an interesting thing when you look at this um this graphic. I just want to point out we've had a lot of um engagement over the last year with stakeholders, but prior to the last year since the passage of the bond and levy, I want to remind everybody that there's been ongoing engagement about the current project with the board of education and stakeholders going back for the last four and a half years. But even prior to that and Chris I think you were a younger gentleman and you were around as far back as 200910 there were master facilities and site plans discussions going on about these same types of phases or or concepts
049we're looking at today. So what I would really like to just say is some of this is not new. The the ideas and the concepts are not new and that stakeholders have been weighing in on these concepts for well over a decade. That's correct. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Um, so with that, like you said, really the couple different variations that have been looked at. As Kirk alluded to, this was uh kind of showing the current u project conditions and we relighted these a little bit from the last couple slides you've seen, but um the new middle school to orient everyone uh on the left with the existing middle school gymnasium on the lower left and then the existing auditorium sitting right in the middle and the high school gymnasium on the right. Um the
050spaces we've been talking about are some spaces kind of behind the gymnasium. As Kirk mentioned, there was an auxiliary master plan that was put together a number of years ago that um also looked at many of these areas and some potential expansions dealing with both athletics and performing arts. Um so the area behind the the high school gymnasium um currently houses band orchestra for the primarily the high school. There's some um coral spaces up on the second floor. And then next to that in areas C and D, uh some trainer spaces, some um used to be some locker room spaces that were moved out to the home of the Braves that were since converted to some wrestling areas. Um so those spaces, you know, in the current configuration, we continue to house those programs with
051some enhancements. Uh and then the area B which is both band and then behind that orchestra you know some enhancements there as well um to try and expand some of those areas as we've talked about previously. And area A which you see to the left uh was the idea of the of some additional music space um that would be added on at some point in time uh to house larger expanded areas um that would better accommodate the programs both the middle school and the high school moving forward. As Kirk mentioned, some pre previous plans back in the um 2010 2011, there were some other blackbox theaters and these kind of things that were looked at, but always in this kind of same realm of music and um and athletics. And then the second version um
052kind of shows the expanded. So, if this were to be built out, as we've looked at here a couple of times, so if uh some of those music spaces were moved over to the uh area A uh and that then house band and orchestra, which would accommodate additional spaces for both middle school and high school, storage, ensemble, and so on. Um then reconfiguring the areas behind the high school gymnasium to um provide more program area for for wellness, um some athletic needs as well. And so area B then becomes uh which I'll show you here in a minute some additional like I say fitness space, wellness space um that that again would help with some of those program needs. You can see some of the prices on the bottom right again similar to what has
053been shown um in prior board meetings and been looked at by both the um project team, administration and the board here for a period of time. So that just combines the two together in that $8 million range. And then it's kind of off the slide there further down to rebuild the wellness areas in the back was about a half a million. Um, and we can come back to this here in a second. So, this again just shows the area that we built out with additional music. Um, you can see some orchestra spaces, band spaces, uh, storage. There's some u a lot of these small group ensemble practice spaces which don't do not currently exist in the existing areas, some common spaces um and really just again providing additional area, larger area to better accommodate current
054and future growth for these different programs as well as um helping support the performing arts. Chris, is it fair to say much like the process we went through last year with the um major project that again you you've created these renderings and views to show us um an imagining of what it could be. And again, we're we're not in a final design stage with this, but we're trying to give the public a look of what this what this wing could look like. >> Absolutely. Exactly. >> So, there's still maybe some work to do, but we're we're along we're designing along the way. >> That's correct. Chris, I could start it up, but on that note, um because this is if we move forward this, I want to make sure we have the same level of
055community engagement we did with the middle school and those plans and bringing in our incredibly talented music professionals to make sure we do this right. As far as I if let's say you know we start moving walls internally, how impactful would that be to the estimated budget? I know this is all kind of high level estimates now. Is this something that we could do something from a design perspective that would add 20% to it or are we talking it's all going to be relatively the same budget as long as we stay within this footprint? >> Yeah, I think as long as we stay within the footprint and the general parameters as Kirk mentioned, this was still um somewhat conceptual and it's mov been able to take it a little bit further than that through discussions.
056Um so I think tried to create a um uh some parameters and some guidelines around which the budgets were developed. So, I think we feel comfortable as a team that you'll see some of the breakdown of the numbers. >> I guess one followup. If it's determined that this isn't big enough, how do we have any idea, I guess, from a construction spacing perspective, do we have room to go bigger? And then is it as simple as saying if you add another 2,000 ft to it, it's x bucks a foot. Or is that can we not do that yet? >> Um, it can't, like I said, there there is room. It could grow. I think we felt like within the parameters and and at least the initial feedback we had been getting from stakeholders that we
057felt like the size and scale of the program you know would be adequate but sure I think once we go through you know some further development and further feedback if it would felt needed to grow a bit more or something like that I think that's something that could be looked at but I think you we felt like given the the program needs and the parameters that we've been talking through um that we provided you know room for this to flex and grow whether it shrinks a little bit or grows a little bit still kind of falls within the budget parameters that we've been looking at. >> Chris could just for again general knowledge, I know you mentioned this last year. Um obviously you're engaging you and Amy and the team with our faculty at intervals,
058which is really crucial, right? They're all experts at what they do daily, but you also work with some other um partners uh nationally that help you when it comes to these kinds of spaces. Can you just talk about that at a high level? >> Sure. Uh yeah, as mentioned, we've um there's some theater consultants, performing arts consultants, acoustical consultants um that we've been engaging with as well and trying to figure out based on the size and scale, the programs that you have here, the potential future growth of the programs you have here, numbers of spaces, sizes of spaces to um make sure that you know we're providing the kind of flexibility and program needs that would accommodate both now and well into the future. So, as Kirk mentioned, I think there have been there are
059outside consultants that we've been working with as well, both here at Indian Hill, other projects that we work on, I think, to help kind of um vision this and and again provide some flexibility both for now and into the future. >> Yeah, absolutely. Actually, we did have a chance to with some of the folks with some of the music department to go visit a number of um local program spaces um during the both during this and during some early programming in the middle school um to kind of look at both here locally and some examples outside of Cincinnati, the kinds of spaces and program needs that they would have. So, I think that played into this as well is kind of looking at size and scale and what are the things that would ultimately be
060needed to accommodate the programs. One of one of the things that Chris and Amy also did along with Jim Nichols is they took our Brave Focus group around to eight different sites where we specifically looked at performing arts spaces just as a reminder. Uh again, some of that seems like a long time ago, but it was just last year in the summer. Um and uh we also learned of course that there are lots of other programs around the area that have upgraded some of their spaces recently. Um some some are neighbors. Um so that was also interesting. see those places and bring back any feedback they felt like uh since we are creating this big space for them. How much feedback did you get from them? Like the teachers who are going to be using
061these rooms, how much of the feedback do we have? I think like Kirk mentioned, I think, you know, there's there's been a number of conversations um that had been going on both when the middle school is being developed as well as as we've been looking at this closer. I think there's there's ongoing conversation that still needs to happen to really flush out all the details. And as kind of Bear alluded to, you know, if we need to be adding or modifying, I think we still feel like there's space here to do that. Um, so there has been a fair amount number of meetings that we've had uh along with the tours to go kind of look at examples of these spaces to make sure that we're thinking through all the different potential needs over time.
062So, a lot of that has happened. There's still more of that that needs to happen to really kind of hone in and make sure, you know, we're providing all the different kinds of spaces and needs that are there. Um, but I think we feel comfortable at least where we are right now programmatically that we're providing a number of spaces that are needed and areas that more spaces can be, you know, modified or added once we get get back with some of those different constituents. >> Chris, question for you um and the team and thanks for all you guys are doing. if we did need to modify, right? I I have some personal feelings which is that I'll just share which is I think we do need more space. I think we we need an additional
063performance space blackbox. We've got a lot of awesome programming that we're constrained on. I know that when I looked at the auxiliary report, you know, we've been going back for 10 years now, basically over 10 years, saying these are needs for the arts, these are needs for the sports. When I went back through that, you know, it was 20 thou almost 20,000 square feet of additional space that was part of the master facilities plan going back 10 years ago for the performing arts and an additional 7,500 square ft for the sports. And so, you know, as a parent thinking through we're going to do this one time and we need to get it right for our kids, I personally believe that we're going to need some additional space. That's my personal thought process after talking
064to families, after talking to some of the staff. And so, you guys have done a great job on that footprint. If you go back, if you wouldn't mind going back to an that slide there, if we had to add more space and other folks that are decision makers not feel that way, where would that where where are there opportunities, right, where we know, hey, over here there's no chance we could expand a footprint, but if we needed to expand a footprint, where would those places be? >> Yeah. So primarily I think even we sort of alluded to too Nolan with the original master plan was to the um plan to the top. So plan north of a additional square footage that could be added beyond even going back we're not all the way back to
065the edge of the scene shop there yet and it could even go further back into the toward the bandfield. And the other area that the other two areas that were looked at at the time and still could be is plan north again the top of B. um there was potential infill opportunities and that's right currently a parking lot area out there um both during that auxiliary master plan um at that time you know there wasn't um a lot of thought about moving some of the spaces out of the back of the high school so that I think has has allowed some additional space to free up um and the third area was to the I guess to the right of the gymnasium there's a green space um there's potential there we're showing potential future um
066some turf surfaces and things that would maybe tie into athletics. Um, but there have been shown there was an auxiliary gym there at one time that was tore down. Um, so potential expansion over in that area as well. So there are there are a few places things could still push and pull, you know, again, whether now or in the future, you know, to allow for some of that growth. >> What is north of A, right? What is if you ran parallel to uh the backstage area there, >> right? What is that? Is that 2500 square feet? Is that 3,000 square feet? What what what is that? I don't know for sure, but what's that ballpark? >> It was around three, I think 3,000 or so. Yeah. >> So, no. And then the other thing I
067think that would be helpful I brought this up in the last meeting relative to this overall conversation and again the team's doing an awesome job is and you guys have already be working on this is it would I think it's going to be important for us to look and say what is the parking space parking spaces that sit in front of the entrance to the performing arts that would sit in front of the middle school. How does that relate? you know, it's there was historically 622 spaces. We're now going to have whatever. And then also talking about, you know, if we move forward on the sports package, too, what is that parking going to look like around the back? Because I think it's going to be important. I I I don't want to be in
068the situation where we don't have, you know, appropriate parking. Um, so I don't know if that's something that you guys can work up, but I think that would be helpful. >> Okay. Just to piggyback on that question, I guess too, and I know Pete, I remember hearing you talk about this in another meeting, if you were going to look at designing that uh A differently, besides looking to the north on this picture or the west side of A, would you consider also that that main wall, that south piece of of widening or no? I I'm just wondering just off the top of your head, like is there a strategy to that? because again we're dealing with earth moving the the topography of the land. I'm just wondering what you think cuz I I thought I
069heard you talk about that big wall. Um Pete, >> yeah there's a big retention wall. Sorry, you want to think? >> I think it I think it so this side here is sort of you know then the grade drops pretty deep coming around the corner, you know. So when this goes out eventually this tails down towards the back of this area here. So right now we have a pretty good size foundation coming across and so do correct me right around here through a and then it's going to tear down and then come around the back you know obviously storm. I mean I I can't remember the details Kirk. >> I just wondered what you thought like when you hear that questionally just so that we understand. I feel like the grade back here is pretty
070flat coming off the back to where we even talked at one time, you know, other than egress issues and stuff. Is there potential to wrap around the back of the uh the back side of the u auditorium area and all the back spaces, but I know originally we had a bigger footprint that was discussed. We did a pricing option I and I don't have it in front of me but for three different square footages and we picked in the middle after some discussion about you know we uh with the design team coming back saying hey we think that's the right square footage Chris and Pete the question then if if we are cuz I'm where Nolan is if we're going to do this I want to do it the right way and I want it
071to be the best and I don't want to have to do it again in 10 years or come back in 10 years and say oh shoot we missed an opportunity to do this and now you're you're hamstrung. From a timing perspective, there's no doubt we realize significant savings in doing this project now, which you know puts a little bit of a rush on this project, which is unfortunate, but it's what it is. When would be the drop dead date we would have to sign off on square footage? You know, obviously we got to get the construction drawings, we got to get the bids, but is this something in the next six weeks we could say, "Okay, here's what it looks like if we add another 3,000 ft or whatever, reconfigure it to do more a
072secondary performing space or the blackbox or something along those lines." How does that impact your timeline, the design timeline, and the overall project timeline? >> When when I did the cost scenarios, uh we'll get into that in a minute. I was thinking the sooner we get to market with A and you know all the stuff in B and C the we're going to save money. you know, we're seeing about I want to say almost 3% per quarter com compared to normally, you know, if I go back to where we're not in this crazy world we're in, you know, we would use we would advise 3% per year, you know, and and and I think at the very least what I would do is I I think is if we defined that this piece here is
073pretty solid, that's sort of pretty far along. wrong in design because changing that would then impact you know as we're developing the structure and this Chris this is our this is our last sequence of building and we're trying to overlap it with the staff and the people that we already got on site to where the only thing we're doing is is as this progress of work develops out the back you know we're trying to time it to where we can finish all this work up four months towards the end of the year and you know to me I guess it comes down to the question is if it takes another month or two to to vet out what it takes to get it right, you know, maybe we focus on this area. If this is
074right, we go and then we still vet out the rest of this going around the back. >> Yeah. I mean, that that's what I want to make sure we have the time to do is to truly look at this and make sure I'd rather spend the extra month or two. And yeah, even if it delays the overall project a month or two, that that's in five years, no one's going to remember that. But if we get this wrong, we're gonna be living with it for a long time. >> I think right now we're in a position where we can if if we can lock in. Now, this is the uh >> I'm in the right spot, right? >> I I can barely see. >> But anyway, we're pretty designed out through here to where we
075can procure all the steel, all the structure. Then it becomes a what do we do with the rest of this? I mean, I think looking at it to Nolan's point, the only thing that's really because we've got the choir room, the middle school choir room, which I understand is not intended to be a performing space or the the black box that we call it. >> It's not right. But so if that that's really the only thing other than maybe some additional storage that would be added, you know, are we able to figure out a way to design that into this project, understand the costs in the time that we have to realize the savings of doing this all at the same time? And and I think you're saying we do I don't want to put
076words in your mouth. I wouldn't want you to question a design just for to save a month. You know what I'm saying? I I I mean, I'm I'm impartial, but if I'm building a house and I got to make a big decision, I'm willing to wait to make sure I get it right. It's I'm just putting my spin on it. >> Chris, what's a what's an expectation you and Amy and the team working to continue? Because obviously you've done a lot of design work already. when you hear those questions, how do you feel about the the two months >> like you said that this additional space is additional space, right? So, we want to make sure we have it right. I think we've been internally as a team talking about May here, you know, trying
077to get some of these things squared away at least as far as what's the scope and the program that we want to include in here and ultimately what's the cost that the district has to decide on. So, you know, I think we've been talking and with the end of the school year coming up and, you know, people going away in the summertime, you know, I think we're going to want to we're going to want to get this squared away here in the month of May. If that means taking a little bit extra time to make sure the program is correct or looking at a couple different program options, hey, what if we had a black box? Hey, what if we had some of these other options and doing that here over the next month? Coming
078back with some, you know, some budget numbers to kind of say what those different options might look like. I think that's I think that's realistic. If we start getting beyond that, I think, you know, Peter will show some timelines, then we start kind of running into, okay, can we get it done within the same, you know, parameters of this project. But I think if we can, you know, be able to take some time and take a look at this here in the month of May, that that still kind of falls within the >> I mean, I I think what we're looking at this, what we're talking about is really the potential, you know, tweaking of storage space and then the addition of the second choir room slashperforming space. >> Yeah. Um, I don't think we're
079talking a a complete, you know, redesign of move it to the south of the middle school or something along those lines. It's kind of tweaking the process as we did through the middle school project, but with the understanding this tweak is going to involve expansion of square footage and certainly cost. I think the biggest thing to think about um and and and how you're approaching that is probably in the month of May understanding what the final footprint is overall with square footage wise. There's opportunity there for ex more design with interiors and things like that, but actually getting the footprint of the outline is the largest piece to to kind of settle on because working through the building and foundations and understanding how far the grading has to go out for the building pad itself.
080>> And I assume that then sets our steel cost, that sets our foundation package, it sets the storm water implications that this will have. Yeah. And that's the got to be the biggest expense item. The the finish, the interior design, that's certainly going to be an expense, but that's got to pale in comparison to the main structural elements. >> What what I'm hearing you say is you need the footprint relatively quickly in terms of what the interior guts look like. We have a little bit more time in the design time. Is that correct? >> I think I think that's fair. Equipment stuff like that. Yeah, exactly. I think to Holly's point, if we can nail down what's the scope and scale that the district's interested in and you know, that's that's going to help at
081least the rest of us keep moving forward. So, if we can get you to a point where, okay, this here's a couple different variations on what that footprint might be. This is one of them if we want to look at something a little bit bigger, whatever that might be, then yeah, I think that at least sets us up and sets the district up well to keep moving forward without causing a lot of delays. Um I was like the main things I'm looking at right now is grading foundations and utilities and making sure that we're wrapping around the building in a proper way. >> So basically the going to go with and then we can uh design it later, right? Is that what it is? >> We can at least keep going. Yeah. And and just
082to just for the sake for the sake of the group too, I mean there has been because this is something that this isn't new. I know the district's been talking about this. has been mentioned for some time. So even before we started putting little chairs and doors and there had always been a footprint that said this was a potential future. So just know that you know the district has been thinking about this administration. So the team has put in place knowing that there's potential some future expansion that was going to happen here whether it's now or 5 years from now. So yeah we need you know in order to keep it going in the same path as the current construction project. Yeah know those things need to happen here pretty quickly. But as far as
083like you know is there enough capacity for or is the site being graded in such a way are the foundations being designed to allow for those things are happening and those things are being incorporated into the project. So I think the district can at least feel comfortable with you know certainly if we can move forward with this as a team and get it going great. If it's something that takes a little bit longer and has to happen in the future you know there's nothing I don't if we feel like we're setting ourselves up pretty well in the district that that can still continue to happen. So, I just want to point that out that we can look at some different sizes of this and what's that ultimately that footprint want to be and like we've
084been talking about. I think if we can do that here over the next month is going to help us keep moving forward. >> Chris, >> um but there are things that are being done to kind of >> you and Amy have already you've already moved into the high school and P room. It's just one or two more days, right? We can keep you there. Exactly. >> Um because of time, we need to move forward. So, if we could keep moving through the rest of the presentation, then we'll take some more questions, but we just want to be mindful of the clock. So these are just, you know, some concept imagery. As was mentioned, this was still pretty preliminary, but starts to give a sense of what these spaces might look like. Um, and again, focusing
085on a lot of these other small ensemble, just just larger scale spaces when you're talking about middle school, high school, and potential future growth. Um, we also then started to look at a little bit more at the these wellness, fitness spaces on the back side of the of the high school as we mentioned. So again, there's been some conversations. We've had a chance to meet with um with Brian and some of his constituents, coaches, had some people come out and help us kind of look at equipment and how this might lay out. Again, still preliminary. This is 100% right, but at least starts to kind of get a feel for what can work. Um it just provides a lot more of the kinds of spaces that just currently aren't aren't here. you know, home of
086the Braves made a big um was a big help in dealing with and helping with sports and activities out on the fields. But as far as long-term, you know, more weight, fitness, training, these are the kind of things you're seeing a lot of other competitive schools doing. Some cases are building a standalone, you know, fitness kind of center. In this case, we can accommodate a lot of those needs right here in the building and make use of a lot of space you already have. >> What's our ballpark square footage on the strength and conditioning and the cardio space? >> That that whole area is about 7,500. Does that include the locker rooms or just the core weight space? >> That's the the weights, the cardio, and then like even that trainer. There's some storage and
087trainer space in the back there, too. So, the wrestling is kind of, you know, off to the side. I think that that's a separate that's still another couple thousand square feet as well. And that we just just for the sake of the group, we've been showing that kind of where as it is. I know there's been some work done there. Um, you know, certainly there can be some some rethinking of that, but I think the group has felt like that, you know, is there. It's functioning and and so that's why we continue to show it there. So the strength and conditioning this is in addition to what we currently have or replacing? >> Uh it could be both. You know I don't know there's been some discussion about you know is there does the existing
088space continue to remain. I know there's some programs within the the um high school um that utilize these spaces as well during the day. Um so it's potential that they could kind of supplement each other or andor this could take over some of those spaces. But I think you know certainly the new space would start to ride a lot more and accommodate a lot more uh of the need that that the current weight room does not. Um so it's potentially it could still continue to exist together or independently >> or it could be opened up for other uses >> or it can be opened up for other uses. There's some I know this is also being looked at as you know how can the community utilize these spaces as well both for access um Nolan
089mentioned parking you know how can people get to this more easily. We're thinking about entrances. Um, how could again other outside folks come in and use these spaces when they're not being used by student athletes. So, just this I think helps with a lot of that flow as well. I I know that we're up for time, but I do I do think it's important that we I think it's important that we look at this space in the same lens that we're looking through the art space because, you know, when I went back and looked at it and then I've heard, you know, there was an additional 7,500 square feet that they had talked about and I'm not proposing 7,500 additional square feet because a lot of that's refitting. you know, if we are making an
090investment now, you know, I also think we really need to we really need to think through is this everything that we need for the sports. I mean, in my opinion, right, Brian, and we've got great athletic folks. We've done a lot over on the home of the Braves, but you know, if I'm an athletic director and I hear that I'm going to get some things, I'm excited, right? But at the same time, we've got to make sure that, you know, I think a lot of our educators often don't articulate everything that they need because they know we're under limited constraints. When we're talking about being the best, not just here locally, but nationally, when we've got the opportunity to do it, I think we need to take a hard quick look and also to make
091sure that this is the right footprint. You know, I mean, I'm excited about the opportunity to renovate this, but quite frankly, our facilities right now that we have underneath here, it's embarrassing. >> It It really is. >> To your point, I think we need to move and move pretty quickly so we don't hold up the project, but we try and accomplish what you're just saying so we can be world class in in the arts and in the athletic side. So, it's >> to um to your point, Nolan, uh quickly, Mr. Dr. Phelps has worked with several um consultants already that MSA has taken some feedback and input from to make sure that we would be maximizing the square footage for strength and conditioning and um wellness space, cardio space for the future because a lot
092of gym space actually in modern facilities is wasted space. Um sometimes people make cardio rooms for example too large and they they get equipment they don't need that never gets used. So we've been bringing some experts in already to do that. To Brian's credit, we'll want to look at maximizing every square foot, making sure we're thinking about how student athletes and adults uh train now and in the future. And um everything from lighting to uh um access to the outside to uh the types of equipment and uh that's a commitment besides the design, right? But it's a part of the design that we really need to look at closely. >> And what I'm concerned about mostly is and Brian's done an unbelievable job, right? I mean, he was down at the future, you know, future
093of athletics is, you know, we think about we just opened up esports, right? That's going to grow like crazy. What's the footprint for that? You know, we're talking about the future of data analytics with all of our sports. That's going to trickle down to high school, right? Where is that space going to be housed? So, I'm just saying like we need to think, okay, we got data analytics for sports, right? That's ramping now in college. It's going to be here. If if we don't think Mhler and X and everyone else is going to have that, they are. If we don't think Wyoming and MadiRaa is going to have that, they are. When we think about our esports, right, that that's when kids are getting college scholarships for that. So, I just want to make sure
094and there's the list goes on and on. I just want to make sure that we look and say, is this the right footprint? I know the team's done an unbelievable job and Brian's unbelievable job, but I want to make sure, you know, if we need more space to be the best, are we going to be in a situation where we come back in 2 3 4 years and, you know, mix heartburn because we're now saying we need to do something else and that's not fair. >> On that note, I mean, obviously this is the size is dictated here by the existing space. How challenging or how viable is it? And it doesn't necessarily have to be today, but if in three years we say, you know what, we need a much larger esports room or
095something we're not thinking of. Is there capacity to simply expand on to the back, I guess, the west side of this building or would this project completely restrict that? No, I think there's absolutely space and I think it's part of the exercise as we're moving forward is I think it's as we look at these different variations is we're always looking at growth, right? Where could it grow? Because the reality is like you're going to build what you can and what you what makes sense for you now 10 years 20 years to Nolan's point if you have to grow where could you grow. So I think you know at the same time we can keep identifying where might those spaces if we need to expand not preventing you from doing that but yeah certainly you could
096go north of here you can go there. I mentioned the grass area kind of behind there's some other spaces you could grow into for sure. Do you have any opportunity to build up instead of out? Because I know we also have our green space issues which I know has been changed a bit with middle school. >> Yeah, this this particular addition it will be difficult to go up on just because of the way it was built. Um but there's some other opportunities kind of in around this area that you could and particular and especially with the new spaces that we you know that would be built allowing for that if not actually going up now and trying to maximize use of that because you're right the amount of area we have to build on in
097this campus is is limited. There are some constraints. And what about on the art side? >> Exactly. Absolutely. At least if not doing it, allowing for it to go to go vertical. So, let me just show you these real again. A couple more images. These were, as M uh Kirk mentioned, we've been kind of partnering with a few folks here locally just to look at how these spaces might lay out um just to see, you know, how it could work. Could it accommodate the number of athletes and students that we needed to? So, there's some ideas about how that might be. Do you want to touch on this? Uh I think again we've seen this at the last board meeting. Again board members again this is something you've seen before. It's just for the public
098another high level view of what we are seeing with market prices and uh inflation and how it impacts the decision-m around a project like this. >> Yeah. I think there's only just one more piece that was added since you guys have last seen it um later this month. OCC, which is Ohio Facilities Construction Commission, the ones that do a lot of the construction and public works in in Ohio and schools, um anticipates the 17% increase for their cost index. Um that's just for 2022. Um that's usually diverted over two to three years of inflation. And then some of the regions, they're actually looking at 27% due to um access to contractors and labor and materials at this point in time. >> So we we talked at the last meeting, you know, the whatif cost, right?
099So we we verbally went over, you know, right now if we can make decisions towards the end of May, you know, the this is all based on the the 8.5. Now obviously if that grows that that would change, but what what we're seeing is basically wait until Q3 Q4 22 is about another is is 9%. Above that. So your 85 goes up to 93. You know what's that? threequarters of a million roughly, you know, and then what I did after that, assuming that we made some this thing can't go on forever, you know, the crazy 21 and 22, you know, assuming a 3% increase that we're normally seeing, you know, that would obviously go up. So, your your price if you waited to 23 is about a million bucks just strictly between uh it's not
100going to come down. Um and then obviously another uh um three quarters and uh 24 conservatively um going in. So how did I come up with the the schedule? Kind of like you see the the May, June, July, August of 23. What we're trying to do is take advantage of time while we're on site and overlap the back expanded. >> I'm going to interrupt you for one second. That's why we need another space. >> Yeah. All good. No, I mean they let them do what like we should let them do what they need to do. But that's my point, right? My point is we're here and we need another space. So that's for anyone that's watching that's exactly what we're talking about. >> So that's good. Good stuff. Timing was perfect, right? >> Yeah. So
101anyway, if we if if we bump the project out, this red box basically explains that for four months of professional services, you'd be paying on top of what you're already paying now in the middle school. So next slide real quick, and I'll try to be brief. You know, we're about uh quarter million dollars caught for that red box of four months just on professional services. And for example, if you took a four contractors, you know, because your painters aren't going to have a lot of cost, but when you start tacking on mechanical, electrical, people that are on site with with material and equipment and and general conditions, you know, four subs is about close to 300,000, you know, for that red box. And then I threw 3% on for the fourth quarter of 22. So
102at the end of the day um that's where I came up with the the percentages going on. Uh Mick Ford that was it high level. Uh again I think reinforcing the idea of the timeline the cost. Thank you for adding those slides uh from last week. We just got a couple minutes left board members uh for uh final questions. I think you've done a great job and all along you have. So I think we have a very good understanding of what the pros and cons opportunities. I think really we as a board just need to determine um with Mick and the rest of the administration costs and how it gets paid for because it as we all know it wasn't voted on in the bond levy. So we have to work on that. >> Yeah.
103I I just want to echo NY's thanks. I know this is a lot. Um, this is an exciting opportunity. Um, I just speak for myself at least that I want to try to find every way we can to make this happen because part of our obligation as a school board is to make the school the best it can be and that's in every aspect. That's math, science, performing arts, and I think we're there today. I think our facilities can be improved to to do that. So, we're going to continue to work hard to make this happen and I appreciate all your efforts. Um for anybody here or those watching at home, feel free and please do reach out with ideas, thoughts. Um this is a community project and we wanted to reflect that. So thank
104you. >> One thing I would like to to ask is um we talked about a timeline of when the board needs to make a decision in order to sort of keep all that timeline that Pete uh put in his slide. What do you think the what are you looking at as far as the board needing to make a decision to if we wanted to move forward in order to keep this project on the sort of same trajectory we are? >> I I think it comes down to if we could use that target for the end of May for that one piece of the backside of you know the the one program section of area A >> the footprint area. >> Yeah. And then, you know, let's give you more time to work on the the
105specifics because the wellness stuff, you know, if you decide that you want to get serious on expanding this and we know it's going to happen. It's just a matter of pulling the program and the pieces of the financial picture together on how to how to deal with it. That cash would not be needed until we'd have to look at the cash flow forecast we did. You know, you could push that decision down a little bit. Now, depending on rates, I'm not a bond expert, but I think you have time to do that. I think the critical piece is if we're going to move forward towards the end of May, so we can start programming that space coming off that that front half of that area A. Does that make sense? So, from that design perspective,
106Pete, that's the answer. And just to clarify again, that may not be the same as the timeline for the bond financing or the the note uh you know option financing timeline, but if we're looking at the May board meeting, middle of May, and we had to extend even toward the end of May, we'd be okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. And and I just want to echo, you know, to all of you guys, MSA, Scansa, you know, uh, Moz Engineering, all of our administrative team have done an amazing job, and thank you for that. And also, I don't want to speak for all of us, but I I know in my gut we're all very committed to being fiscally conservative, and I appreciate, you know, the fact that we're going to look at these decisions through
107that lens, but also balance that with the fact of making sure we're doing the right thing for kids. And I think Nancy made a really good point. We acknowledge and appreciate that, you know, we do have to be stewards of the community's money and and that's important to us as well. So for the people that are watching at home, I think that's important for them to understand that we recognize that and uh appreciate that. >> I think with that we can uh move to adjourn. Mr. >> I was I thought I got to do that. Is there >> is there a motion to adjurnn? >> So move. >> All in favor? I >> I >> thank you all. Thank you for your help today. Thanks everyone. >> Exclusive coverage on the Indian Hill Television Network
108has been a copyrighted presentation of the Indian Hill High School video department.