001Thanks. >> Okay, we're recording now. >> Uh, good morning. Um, thanks everybody for joining us today for our special board meeting. This point, Mr. Davis, will you do the call to order? The roll call. >> Uh, we need to call to order. The time in is 8:03 and roll call. Mrs. Iikulttz >> here. >> Mr. Marks >> here. >> Mrs. Singh >> here. >> Mr. Sunro >> here. >> Mr. Tullles >> here. >> And is there a motion to adopt the special meeting agenda? >> Still move. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> And with that, we will move into the work session. >> Thank you for joining us, everybody. We have our project team here with us today. Uh Mr. Talis board members, we're going to try to move methodically through a
002high-level overview of the entire project and where we are with the GMPS at this time. Uh we're going to talk about the budget and the timeline for the project. Uh this morning, um as we go through a slide deck that is simply a resource, um Holly Mlan uh from our advisory group MCS will kind of lead us through some of the summary of those slides. Um, if you can reserve some of your highle questions as we're going through the slide deck so that she can do some of that presentation, that'll be great. And then when you have questions, of course, board members, um, we will have different project members fielding those answers to you. Um, and they will identify themselves. They're all represented here today from MSA and Scansa and of course our advisory group
003MCS. So uh with that um we will get started and Holly um I will share this um slide deck on the screen if that's okay and um please uh let us know anybody if you have a question and uh we'll try to make sure that we give plenty of time for the questions. >> Can everybody see that? >> Yes. Okay, great. Holly, I'll turn it over to you for now. >> All right. Thank you, Kirk. Um, well, I'm Holly McClean with MCS and Associates. Um, as I Kirk said, I'll be walking you through some of the project status, update where we are sitting now. Um, some of our strategies and solutions to, uh, help curb what we're dealing with with some of the bid results and, um, and the market conditions. Uh we do have
004a budget overview that we want to hit on and then um also show you some comparable market trends as we look across the state and across the nation uh for construction and then some of our next steps. So if we want to move into the primary school um right now on the right you see uh the master plan the original master plan budget. We did look to add some scope of replacing some sanitary and storm piping within the uh footprint of the building while we're in there doing work now. Um work has commenced at the primary school. Um and looking at we have fully contracted um that means what we are in JMP amendments fully with uh Scansa for all the bid packages except for there's going to be a later bid for a district-wide
005HVAC controls package. So, as we move through a couple of the schools, we're looking at buying the controls alto together. Um, so you have a system that operates and functions the same way throughout the schools. Um, this project is looking that it's on schedule to finish in August 2023. Um, this year they've started some of the new office areas and group restrooms. And then next summer, uh, they'll be looking to do more of the cafeteria and playground, um, aspects of that. Uh do you want to go to the next slide for the elementary? Uh this one shows our original budget looking at some of the enhanced items of HVAC controls and also those PV ready roofs. Um the current cost that's shown in there right now does include some of the enhanced scope of outdoor
006learning spaces and interior learning environments. Uh right now GMP amendments. So what has been contracted with scans to date is about 52% of the cost of the scope um that we're looking to do with major renovations within that building. Um, so everything has been bid to this point for the elementary school. Um, except for the HBAC controls. Uh, we're looking to, uh, kind of possibly do a rebid on the playground with some upgraded and adjusted scope of that. And then also a loose furnishings budget um that we need to finalize uh probably closer to August September of this year. Uh this one's showing on schedule finish completion also August 2023. Um this one we do since we only contracted out 52% of the scope. what we're looking to do is finalize uh the final GMP
007amendment for uh that project. So that's kind of what we're looking at today. Um, some of the schedule milestones for next summer, uh, we are doing some work in there this summer, but some of the milestones that we want to hit for next year is the demolition timeline, that new addition that's going in and opening that up in July, so we can get movement in there, and then finishing out some of the site finishes as the remaining portion of that demolition comes down. if you want to move on to high school. Um, looking to do some of renovations, minor renovations across here. Um, the only thing that has been contracted to date is a pre- purchase of some of the electrical gear since we have in the market have had issues with lead times on
008some of the electrical gear. uh pre- purching purchasing this early was an early package for this. Um MSA is continuing their design coordination on this one to have that complete by September of this year and also look at a completion date of next summer assuming that um a GMP amendment is approved around the December timeline of this year. So, if you go to the next slide, what we're looking at, some of the items that are included in that cost within there are renovating those music spaces at this time, um renovating some of the training spaces back here, uh life safety upgrades in that hatched area around there, and then also a connection to um water line to the central plant that's in your current high school. Uh moving on to the middle school. Uh looking
009at this one, this is the the largest of the five uh contributors. And um so original master plan budget for that enhanced HBAC and controls. um looking at that expanded connector that was approved by the board earlier this year and what our current costs are showing. Um but it also includes some of those outdoor learning spaces and interior learning enhancements and environments that um that we have previously shown to the board as options. Um currently we've had 56% of the scope has been contracted to date. So we had the make ready work. We had some of uh the abate demo. We also had a foundations package and then an exterior envelope package that has been approved to date on that. Um, right now we have fully bid out that project except for the HVAC controls
010for the districtwide and then also the loose furnishings for that project. Um, current project completion from the GMP amendments that have been approved is September 2023 for that. Um this also assumes uh moving forward in some direction in the next month to finalize some of those GMPS and get contractors moving. If you want to go to the next slide, it shows us some of the milestones that we're looking at doing. um moving some of the maintenance staff into the renovated spaces, opening up that connector um in April of next year in that auditorium lobby. So, they're doing work in that area now. And then also in looking at what I said with our current GMPPS, our contractual substantial completion of September 2023, um the goal is to finish a lot of the site work in
011the fall, but as you know, Ohio is very predictable with their weather and um some of the site work and lawns and plantings, we sometimes have to come back and and make sure that those are taking properly. So, we also included um looking at finalizing some of that to make sure everything was growing properly in the spring of 2024. Um moving into I kind of alluded to it before with the schedule impacts. Um we have had a lot of purchased items already and we've got a lot of push back from some of the manufacturers and um subcontractors on timelines of when we can get things in um what our anticipated dates are. Uh the project team's been working together to create matrices so we can uh track and follow all these items and when they're
012coming in and when we can sequence the work and schedule that. Uh the the largest one we've talked about so far is middle school transformer. Um currently the anticipated delivery date that we're tracking is August 4th. that does have a concern of when I told you the contractual um date to open was and with the substantial completion we're starting to work and find some temporary solutions um for the schedule. Uh that does include talking with some of your jurisdictional authorities about temporary occupancies. Um inspection times and what we can get in and when we can get it in. Um windows is another one. A lot of the glass and glazing um anticipated right now is in March. Uh we usually like to have everything temped in and dried in and that kind of pushes us
013back into finalizing that exterior envelope in May. So that also puts some pressure on our schedule as well. Um steel and joist decking anticipated delivery in October. Um, some of these items, uh, manufacturers are not confirming our delivery dates and making some attempts to, um, have some impacts either on roofing or steel. Um, but our project team's been in contact with these guys on a weekly basis, if not daily basis, just to keep track of, are you giving us delivery date, when is it going to be shipped, is it on the truck, and and trying to keep up with that. Um if you want to move on to transportation building. Um right now the only thing that we've purchased so far for this is also um with the with is the generator. Um just so
014we can have the lead time and make sure it gets here when we need it. Um anticipated completion for this is August 2023 as well. Um, it assumes that we get all the designs from MSA. We're looking at September 2022 for that. And then a GMP amendment on the same track as the high school renovations of December 2022. Um the next slide, some of the things I started talking about with the middle school is some of our efforts to manage the schedule and and track these items um which we've said is pre- purchasing equipment um uh Moes and SuzieQ tracking the the matrices of when these items are coming in, when they're being delivered to Scansa, um and when they're needed on site. uh some of the early bid packages that you guys have already
015approved in the past of the make ready work, the early site, the structural steel because we needed to get in line to make sure we got the steel and foundations that are currently going in right now at the middle school and then also the middle school and and elementary school exterior envelopes. So, the exterior of the building. And then in May, we we uh had full GMP and full project GMP for the primary school to make sure that we were getting a a jump on everything and the work this summer and next summer. Um the next slide is some of the efforts to manage the costs of the project. um everybody is very aware of where our market is and and what our costs are um in everything from groceries to steel. So in the
016last month or so uh the project team's been working and has incorporated um working with the subcontractors working with Scansa working through MSA um looking at different strategies on design and how it's designed how it's put together some of the products we use using comparable products but maybe not ones that either aren't available right now but have the same quality. Um, and trying to use those savings over the last to reduce the cost overall. Um, moving forward as like as you probably saw in each one of those, we've got percentage differences between where our original budgets were and what we're seeing in the market right now, especially with middle school and elementary school that have been completely bid out to subcontractors minus a few of the packages. Um large gaps in that are in the
017general trades um in the case work some of the glass and glazing packages with availability. Um so the project team has been looking to what we call target value design and it's the same strategies as we used before for the middle school and elementary school packages is to is there a better way to build this? Is there a a does the subcontractor have connections or ideas or or some stock in hand of the same type of materials that we need to use on the project and looking at those strategies where we can try to save some save some of this cost that we're seeing in the bid market right now. Um some other options for you as we start to look into the budget overview here. Um some of that work for the high school
018renovation hasn't been fully designed yet, hasn't been fully bid out yet. That's looking at the later end of the year. Um, and possibly looking at deferring some of these options of I know you guys have already done quite a bit of upgrade work in the athletic support spaces like a few years ago. Um, looking at deferring some of that water line. Um, but then maybe looking at some other options of and I kind of updated this slide. It's not removing uh wood wall covering, but maybe reducing in certain sections where you're not going to see it as well or it's not going to be prominent. Also, with the trazo floor, looking at an alternate on that alternate flooring options for that middle school green. Um and and kind of showing you some options of that
019where we could save some funds in that. Um right now in the additional loose furnishings we're carrying um about a half a million dollars over what our budget was originally the low end of the budget. Um but I was like as we've been working with some of the vendors making some decisions of what we need and and where that's fitting we we already see some of those savings and getting back onto budget in that regard. Um, within all those numbers that we looked at, there are contingencies in there. There's CMR contingency in there. There's owner contingency for construction, which is change orders. And then there's also owner um non-construction contingency, which has certain earmarks for items that we know we're going to need, but we may not know the price of them, which is aid
020to construction from utilities. um some of the contract modifications that we need to make every once in a while, uh temporary utilities, some of the permit statuses um for that. So, we do have contingencies built into all these numbers and some allowances and trying to look at those and make sure that we're holding the proper numbers for where we're working with on the projects. If you can move down into budget overview. So, our original master plan uh budget 77 million. Some of those added and enhanced scopes that you guys looked at was about $1.9 million um for our total budget of around 78.9. the current cost that we're showing for all these projects together. That includes some of the enhanced items. It includes the contingencies. Um it that's the overall number of what we're looking
021at with a lot of the bids that are coming in right now is at 916. Um the difference as you can see is very high right now of a 16% option. when we look at taking those options for savings um and possible some contingency reductions in there, trying to work our way back down to something that's manageable within the market um and and trying to work our way back down to what we were showing you in the last month or so. Um if you look at the next slide, these are our comparable trends that we're following. Um a lot of this is from Ohio. Um but we're also looking nationwide. Um, I'm having these conversations a lot around Ohio and I know our whole project team is right now that a lot of our recently
022bid projects from that were last estimated earlier this year and at the end of last year we're running about 12 to 18% overage at this point. um OFCC just came out in April and for with their inflation factor of uh 17% um our engineering partners and news of record 15% and I and I know this is the bad portion of the thing but we also looked at some of the associations that track some of these trends and just in May we were looking at it between two and two and a half% increase just in May. Um some of the other trends on the next page uh we talked about all these components. We are tracking these. We are looking at what the lead times are for each of these and and how the prices are
023are shifting and changing and trying to work with the market on those. So looking at structural steel, looking at roofing, looking at glass, looking at HVC and mostly um keeping our eye on electrical at this point. So at the end of this, what are our next steps forward? um looking to the board to and the administration to deciding on what is our appetite for this in this market. What can we decide on? Are there cost-saving strategies? Are there options that we can look at as a team? um and looking to finalize some of these GMPS in June, July, but then also there's some of those that are coming down in December. Um design is still continuing with what you've asked us for with music and wellness. Um, we're looking at design completion around mid July
024from MSA and then looking at getting cost information from Scanska about a probably about a month later in mid August after they go out to the community. >> Thank you, Holly. I know that that was a lot of information for everybody and you did an excellent job summarizing and moving through the slide deck for us. Um there's a lot to digest there obviously we're facing some historic um inflation and market conditions obviously and uh trying to wrap up some major uh GMPs here in June. Um and I think at a high level um we just got a lot of really um helpful information uh especially for those who consume this from the public side and then um I think we need to dig in on a couple of these items to have a better understanding.
025So, um, thank you for for going through all that for us. Um, board members, at this time, can we, um, field some questions to the project team? >> Sure. Craig, can you pull down the slide deck or Kirk? >> Yeah. >> Thanks. So, I have a couple questions I'd like to ask. Um the first is is going back to the last board meeting. We were at a 75% completion on a 79 basically it's called a ballpark $79 million project. 77 million with about 1.89 in additional or 1.99 in additional scope. At that time, we were told that we were at a $6 million overage, a 75% completion with 1.2 CMR left and 3.2 owners. We were told that we were at 100% of the primary completed in terms of bids being out and being received
026back. We were at 75% on the middle school and 50% on the height on the on the elementary school with ballpark just under 21 million left to receive bids back on. 6 million of that was the elementary, the rest was the middle school and the rest. So what I'd like to understand is how the delta on $21 million is now $6 million. That's question number one. And and I'm going to start to feel that question because I want to kind of run back through some of the numbers that you just went through as well. >> Sure. >> Last month when we were looking at that um we did find a um mainly on it was just on the middle school and a discrepancy on where we were because when we were looking at the numbers
027and we were comparing numbers, it wasn't towards the original $77 million budget. So there was about a $3 million budget or $3 million differential in that >> and that's a problem. >> That is a problem. >> It's a problem because back up and say that again. I want to understand that. >> Okay. So, when we were looking at there was at the time we were looking at the $6 million overage that we we looked at and we were about um we're looking between 8 and 10% of an overage at that point in time. And with the middle school, the the elementary and primary were were fine. We didn't have any discrepancies. We didn't have any issues with that. When we were looking at the middle school, the comparison between the um what had been bid
028and I've got it here. So, we were showing 3.5 at the time. It was closer to 6.9. So there was about a $3 million difference um of what we were comparing back to because when we were looking at the middle school, some of our original budgets included some of that po a portion of the of the music wing, >> so make sure I make sure I understand this. When we went through this at the the special board meeting last month, >> Mhm. >> when you were saying we were 6 million over. >> Yeah. >> You were basing that on your assumption of a 78 million and change budget, but in reality that $6 million over was based on a higher number. >> Yes. And it was it was probably closer to nine about that time.
029So my question is on every piece of information unless I'm off that we've received there has never been a number that's been above that's consistently been the budget. I specifically asked for a recap and so let me make sure that we're clear and I recaped the whole thing. I went back and watched the video three times. Mhm. >> So, a $3.2 million miss in information being shared with us, it's not acceptable. It's not acceptable in my opinion by MS by MSCS. It's not acceptable by Scansa. >> It's not acceptable. >> It's not It's not Second question that I have. The second question that I have is is I can I share my screen, Mr. Kcki? Um, >> somebody make me a co-host, please. >> Um, >> yes, you can. >> Nolan, can I can I
030hit two points before you gohead items? >> Um, right now we're still CMR base, we're still at 1.2 >> on the um contingency >> and then owner, we're still at 3.2, >> right? >> Holding on that. >> Appreciate that. And that was also confirmed at the last meeting. So, I'm going to go ahead and share my screen. um with some of the documents that I requested. Okay. And the the answers that I would like to know is I'd like to know I'm going to share my screen here real quickly. What I'd like to know is we received hopefully everybody should be able to see this. We received the detailed package that was requested, okay, of exactly the breakdown of the budget, the GMP that was approved plus supposed to be approved, the scope and the
031differentiation. >> Zoom in on that stuff on the top. >> I'm sorry. >> Zoom in on the the document that numbers on the top. It's hard to see. >> Sure, >> that's better. This is what this is what was requested. I then went through those numbers. Okay, this is a breakdown line by line. This is of the primary school. I also received the elementary school as long rest of the board members. We have not received a middle school. We've not received the high school and we have not received and when I look at this then I ask for all the bids. Under general trades, we had an estimated budget of $493,000. that came in at $1.1 million. It was an overage at $669,000. On line 6A for the casework and finish company that was estimated
032$175,000. The GMPS were being proposed to is $416,000 which is $240,000 over. That's just two items that we only received two bids on. Similarly, down here on the primary, the technology we only received two bids on at 258,000 with 376 technology. I'm not sure exactly what it was because I went through and I put the actual line on bids all with technology. When I looked at the primary school, okay, when I looked at the primary school, there were 17 bid packages that went out. Seven of them had two bids back. One of them had one bid back. So the 17 bid packages, we had eight bid packages that weren't fully vetted. It's unacceptable. When I looked at the elementary school, there's 15 bid packages. Six of those bid packages had two bids back. That's half,
033almost 50%. When I looked as an example of how it makes a difference, I looked at the mechanicals. We had three bids. The top three bids. One was 1.89 million, one was 1.39 35 million, and one was 1.0409 million. So the delta between the third bid and the first bid was $800,000. So think about that. $800,000 by having an additional bid. So, I would like to know why we are not fully bidding out these projects when we're when we're at a $12 million budget overrun that supposedly was a mistake when we were told 30 days ago that it was 6 million. I'd like to know from Scansa and we can do it later, MSA really and MCS why we have not fully bidded those packages. Nolan and I could chime in on the bidding. Um,
034at the end of the day, we start marketing these jobs probably three to four, five months from DD on into GMP and bidding. You know, certain packages, um, depending on the job, you know, we put a lot of effort into to drum up the number of, uh, potential prospects. Actually, we even advertise sometimes out on the street um publicly, which you know tends to bring in a you know some others. >> We should advertise them publicly. We should advertise them publicly. >> You can't tell me that. You can't tell me Scanskit can't tell me that a technology package that we don't put that out to the public. And you're telling me that we're only going to get >> Oh, when I say public, >> we're only going to get we're going to get one. We're
035going to get on a technology package. We're gonna get back on a technology package. Two bids. Why? Why are we not putting this out in a We're in this We're in the tri state in the middle of We're in We're in between We are in between >> Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana. >> We have Lexington, Louisville, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Dayton, Columbus, and you're telling me we can only get two people to bid, two firms to bid a technology package? I don't understand that. I'll let I'm sorry Pete to interrupt you, but I don't understand. >> That's all right. That's all right. >> Problem is is we're we're using we're trying to entertain a the designer as a um you know as is a as one of the biders. Um so does that limits competition on certain things?
036Sometimes yes. Um but at the same time you know what we're trying to do is you know meet the needs of our project uh with equipment specifically to the existing equipment and sometimes that locks you in on certain manufacturers. Okay, another question there. >> For example, >> okay, for example, on the primary building, the general trades came in at $1.16 million, $493,000 over budget, and we got two bids on that. We are $493,000 over the estimated budget and we got two bids on that. That doesn't make sense to me. So, and this that's a question for Scansky and a question for MCS. How are we only having two bids on general trades and we're $493,000 over budget? >> And actually, the two bids on general trades is going to occur at the middle school and
037it's going to occur also at the elementary school. So, it's a compounding problem. If you look at the middle school numbers, you know, we don't have that bid tabs for you yet, which we'll provide. Um, you know, we had a big overage in the middle school. Um, you know, receiving two bids on that package. Normally, we see three or four. We had actually four that accepted and said they were bidding it. >> So, Pete, question for you then is when we sent these bid packages out, what was the delivery? And this is not >> these questions are not for any individual person. These are for the entity of Scansa and the entity MCS. Those are the contracted firms that we have contracted with to help guide this process. What is the process that we are
038currently using to put these to bid? If we're only getting two bids back, I get that the market is tough. I get that people have a lot of work. Help me understand, help the rest of the board understand what is the sequencing of how that's being put to bid. What is the logistics? Is it published on? How's it published? Who are we talking to? what is the logistically operation of how that's working? >> So, we use a a software package called building connected. >> Okay. >> Um, you know, so we keep our biders all up to date, you know, as designs coming along. Uh, we do market outreach through that and have >> So, that's that software, Pete. Is that a is that is that open to the public or there's an internal contractor? >>
039It's an internal scansa delivery out to our list of approved biders. >> Okay. And >> what is so so as an example for the general trades? >> As an example for the general trades, >> is there 40 companies in there? Is there 10 companies in there? Is there five companies in there? What does that look like? >> Well, it varies on packages based on, you know, financial capacity. So our software, so I would say we probably went out to 10 general trades, for example, on and I can get you a report for that. >> Okay. uh we start working the phones maybe 30 to 60 days before the numbers go out you know sometimes like for example gen general trades I'll give you an example specifically on the um elementary school you know we had
040four or five bids uh subs that said they were bidding you know so we start working the phones we extend the bid date you know um I'm having conversations our team's been having conversations with them and you know It's a combination of, you know, obviously market busy. Everybody's busy. Um, that's why we extend dates out as we can, but the the the reality is is, you know, some packages historically um glass and glazing, for example, you know, the the amount of subcontractors in Southwest Ohio for glass and glazing uh to do typical work, especially K12 work, is about down to two. Um there's just not the capacity of the companies around in this region for certain trades. General trades is not one of them. Nolan, what I would suggest, my opinion, one board member is
041I would like to see I would like to see a couple things, right? One is we're supposed to move on basically finalizing the bulk of the GMPS on this whole project, not just the middle school, the whole thing in the next week. We've yet to receive the breakdown of what the middle school, which is the bulk of this, that's what came in way over. >> One, we'd like to see that. I'd like to see that. >> Number two, I'd like to see a plan from the project team who I know has been working hard. I know every individual on here has worked very, very hard. I'd like to see a plan of how we're going to how we are going to expand the scope of the bids and we're going to do something different than
042what's normally done because historically what's done isn't working because the market's very different. So, we're going to need to reach out in a different way. I personally am not accepting the numbers that we're getting right now based off of the limited responses that we received. even though from what I'm hearing from you Pete, you guys have worked very very hard to get those bids in. >> But just a quick summary because of those questions, Nolan and Pete, your answer, I want to make sure I'm repeating this correctly and Pete, please correct me if I'm wrong. What I heard was bid packages went out and you're not receiving the volume of biders back that you typically would or historically have in some of these areas like the general trades example or the glass example that you
043shared. So the reason you have fewer biders is less companies are choosing to put a bid in. >> Correct. And capacity. >> And and Nolan, if if I could maybe just add something to this. Uh with regard to the bidding. Uh over the last few weeks, uh our team has, you know, communicated uh our desire for Pete to consider maybe rebidding some of the packages. And uh my belief is Pete is open to that idea to try to get better numbers and maybe increase the bidding pool. >> Let's talk about that. looking at going forward I guess what specifically can be rebid and then what does that do from a timing perspective? Well, I mean, if I look at critical path activities, you know, you know, like the the the mechanical, electrical, and the plumbing
044obviously would be uncritical. Um, we actually have um another glass and glazing currently working on it. The you know, and part of this is, you know, some of this stuff I'm sort of keeping keeping behind the the scenes in the market with manufacturers because manufacturers talk. Um, I would say general trades, you know, a lot of the interior finishes. Um, I would go down and look at casework. You know, I think that's K12 educational case work typically is a two kind of two kind of company operation. You know, it's it's how do we get the make sure we get that potentially a custom manufacturer on the other end. So, there are opportunities there. Does that impact I I guess from a timeline perspective I I have zero interest in this building middle school building opening
045up past the start of school next school year and I I I don't know how we reconcile the current schedule with what we've been telling the public all along that this building would be open by the start of the 2023 school year. Um but my expectation is to figure a way out to do that. And I, you know, I don't know, you know, how we reconcile that with having to rebid some of this, but um the last, you know, year and a half, we've been telling the public this building isn't open in the fall of 23. And now we're for the first time saying that might not be the case. And I'm not ready to accept that yet. >> Yeah, I agree with that, Bear. And and just to level set, let's just talk about
046where we are holistically. So, we've got buildings that are torn down. We're We've got one foot in the water. We are not a private company. We've got a definitive amount of money that we can play with. Whereas, if I was one a private company of mine, we could go back and possibly have more. So, we're getting our back up against the wall. To Nolan's point, I do not know why we don't have these fully bid. We have got these got to get these fully bid. We've got to get it done as soon as possible because costs are going up every week and every month. And we only have an infinite pool to play with here. So now we're already looking at doing something to supplement going beyond the bond issue. But if this keeps going,
047we're going to have to cut back buildings and other things. I mean, there's only so many places we can cut without carving the buildings back. So, we've got to rely on you guys to get these bids done and go back and get this all wrapped up so we can make some decisions because right now we're getting bits and pieces of that and we cannot make an educated decision on which way to go not having all of the facts. >> One question one go. I'm sorry. >> Sorry. You know, as a followup to what Craig just said, Mike Mendenhal, Pete Becker, um you you talked a little bit about this philosophy, um when we were vetting the partners and bringing the project team together about how you would put out pieces and parts of a multi-sight
048project for bid. To follow up on Bear's question, if you were to put uh rebid parts of the package or would you try to rebid the the whole of a package? Because Pete, I just heard you go through a list of five or six parts again that all sound critical to me. So, what would be the strategy on the rebid? I mean, to me, if if we're going to go through and reduce certain cost options that are in the current number, you know, it's a matter of um changing the documents to get that to reflect that to where I can go back out for pricing. >> Are you talking about reducing the scope that was in the slides that Holly presented? >> Yeah, I mean, it's a matter of taking certain reductions out if if
049needed. Um, but the only other way I would go out to rebid would be just simply round up more companies and have them turn a price in and see how quick they can get it in there off the current documents. >> So, Bear, I just want to make sure I'm at >> you're all clear on this for the public. Bear, I think your question was how to go out and rebid to find more biders, not to go do this with reduced scope. >> Correct. >> I have zero interest I have zero interest. Sorry, can you hear me? >> Yep. >> I have zero interest in reducing the scope or lessening the quality of this project. >> Correct. We have promised a state-of-the-art first class building and that's what fully what I intend to have delivered
050here. And my sense is I don't want to start changing floor materials and use something less than what we have said all along we were going to do which is the best. I want to find more companies who can come in and deliver flooring at a better price or at least know we've exhausted every single possible opportunity. And I guess at this point my sense is and maybe I'm incorrect on this, but my sense is there is more opportunities to exhaust and to pursue. >> Yeah, I I I agree with what Nolan and Be said that we probably have to go out and do something different that we haven't done since the markets is so different. maybe try something different and try to reach more people because as Nolan said that you know we are
051in Cincinnati and there's so many neighboring states that we can reach out to and try to find better bids because this >> I I know we may be asking the impossible and I don't I know how challenging this is for you guys. I I see it with my own clients, the projects they build, and I I've been on the side of the developer where we can't get an HVAC unit for a client. And I I I I know that's I know that is a real world factor, and we're not, you know, we're not expecting this project to not suffer the the market supply issues, the inflation issues that are out there. I I I just before we start even considering cutting anything, I want to know we've done everything possible we can. And I also
052want to know that we're doing a better job communicating this because look, Nolan said we can't have a $3 half million dollar whoopsie on what we think the numbers are. I mean, we we approved MSA to start significant work on the design of the middle school a month ago based on numbers that I now don't believe were 100% accurate. And that that can't happen going forward. We can't have that disconnect. >> No. >> Um I think there is one also one point to make is is if we look at going back and and going back to certain people in the market, um we do want to keep the quality standard of the subcontractors that we're going out to at a high level as well. Um, so just going out and getting possibly some lower numbers.
053I I want to keep the quality that you're trying to pay for and get out of the project with the subcontractors that we're going out to and using as well. So I do want to keep that in mind. >> I don't think anyone's asking for us to go get the lowest, right? And it's lowest cost only. I think the solution is we need to go back to the market. We need to get more people to bid >> with the same scope >> with a good quality >> vendor that we know we can use right the question I have the question that I have is we on all these packages it says nothing around HVAC right in terms of >> I want to make sure that I'm understanding correctly in terms of the HVAC controls right
054like each of the projects we've expanded scope for the HVAC controls are those the HPSU controls. Is that currently in the budget numbers >> or is that pulled out? That is currently in the budget numbers. >> It's in the current 91 million. >> The other question that I have is is that I know that you had mentioned on the elementary school that we were talking about potentially taking the playground back out and it looks like on the original budget that it shows a zero for the playground. >> They're in our site as an allowance. Nolan. So, we've got playgrounds at both the primary school and the elementary school in the current budget. >> But when I look Okay, because when I look at the budget, let me pull this back up for myself. >> It
055says zero. >> Yeah. >> Right. So, where So, I I'm curious around that and help me understand that because like for example, on the playground at the primary school that came in at $694,000 if I'm reading my or I'm sorry, 94 694. And on the elementary it's 483. So where's that $1 million sitting? >> So if I go into the primary school, I'd have to I can get back the the actual allow. It's blended into the allowance numbers on the summary sheet. >> Okay. So if we get a little more clarity, if we can get a little more clarity around that because what I don't want to have is I don't want to have a $1.1 million playground number that just gets plunked on me. >> Yeah. It's one Yeah, correct. >> So we need
056to figure that out. Um, >> just for the Nolan and I just want I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> Ju just for the record for the public that may be paying attention, those numbers again are estimates. They will not be the actual playground budget numbers or what we would spend. Um, we are still working with the project team on on uh those budgets. >> Correct. And I know there's a lot of site work and other things. It's not just, you know, swing sets that are going up, right? We're not going to spend a million dollars on swing sets. I get it. But I'm saying I want to make sure to to Mr. to Kcki's point, like for the public, there's a lot of site work, prep work, moving things in those numbers. That's not swing sets.
057A million dollar swing sets. I don't want him freaking out that we're about a million dollars worth of swing sets, but I think that number needs to be in there. And I just want to restate what I think every other board member has said, and we haven't heard from from N. I'm sure she has some valuable things to share as well. This $3.2 $2 million delta from the last meeting. >> At some point, we need to understand how that happened. >> Like I I personally am not in this position where I'm sitting here 30 days ago and we don't have to hash this out right now, but sitting here 30 days ago and I was very very clear to recap exactly where we were and we were at a $6 million overrun with 3.2 in
058owner contingencies. So really we were at a 2.8 delta, >> right? With another 1.2 sitting on the construction manager's risk contingency. And very clearly it was articulated to MCS, hey guys, on our side, hold every penny you can that 3.2 and on Scanska's side, hold everything you can in the 1.2. In our minds, we're sitting there thinking we're at a $2.8 million delta, not even having any of the CMR come in. So at some point we had to figure that out because just hey guys we made a rounding error. We made a presentation. I know there was no mal intent. It wasn't anyone individual intent but like that's that's a problem. >> That's a problem. Yes. I agree. >> Problem. >> It's a problem that I'm not I can't just kind of you know we
059can't just like hey guys we made a mistake. Like that doesn't work. >> That's why we have an owner's rep to double check the work. That's why we have a world-class company that we picked with Scansa and we're relying on that information. But we have to rely that that information that we are given is 100% accurate. Not 99, not 97, not 98, 100% accurate. We can't make informed decisions. >> That's inaccurate information. >> The second thing is is the information needs to come to us in a much quicker time frame. like we're in a position where we need to move on these GMPs to keep this project on schedule and a lot of this information we don't have to dissect and to look at and the questions that are being raised by myself and the
060other four board members I'm only able to raise because I'm getting information those things have to change so we need to get we need to get some more bids we need to get them back in a prompt timely manner so we can make an educated decision So we can tell the public what's going on and we can stay on track. I mean to us having these buildings open in December of 2023 or beginning of 2024 is to me is not acceptable either. We have got to move quicker and be more nimble and and knowing that we've already started with the demolition that things have got to get moving. So again I know people have been putting a lot of time in but we have got to get some answers quickly so we have a clear
061path forward. Again, >> I want to ask >> Oh, sorry. Go ahead, Mike. >> Yeah. Um, one is Mike Mike Schustster. Um, you know, this is I know there's a communication process in terms of getting the numbers. I realize that and think there's a level of getting biders, but um, looking at I I just want to kind of jump in on the overall aspects and I know we're all familiar with it. You know, we have 18 8.6% inflation rates that are significant. We have supply chain issues. We have contractor issues. We see that and uh and and it it's just a timing it is a timing issue that has uh caught up with a lot of construction projects at this particular point in time. Uh not saying that that it's what it is because we
062don't accept that. We accept that there are ways to take a look at how we build something or how we look at something and working diligently with everybody. And we've done that. We've done that from day one. you know, you know, when we put together drawings and you know, there's pricing and then there's no changes but there's pricing and it's again and more again it it it really comes down to there's a market condition, there's an estimate condition and there's an actual condition and we're seeing we are and this is just anecdotal we're seeing things like for instance just to talk about the gravity of the situation this is not to say that that scans and consultants are not you know providing I'm not this is all about more of a general comment is that
063you know there's a rationing of concrete in a lot of markets because there's not enough concrete. There is um there is substandard concrete being set out uh in place after being tested because of the the inability of the cement companies to get proper fly ash that is quality. Uh we're seeing glass and window projects go 200% as increase over the last six months. Um but we're also seeing some things where we're seeing some uh significant there are some not significant but there are some uh not big number changes over time. the the the the way to the way to to to rectify this is not not the the easiest thing, but the way to look at this is to is to have on board and to do the bidding as quickly as possible and to
064go ahead and get as many contractors as you can. And a lot of contractors are just um they're they're kind of fed up with the supply chain issue and if they take on another job, all they're going to deal with is a supply chain issue. So, you're seeing reluctance from contractors. Um, and you're also seeing that contractors aren't really getting all of their work done in as a timely basis in terms of making u making their their businesses run because they can't get product to put in. So, this is a real problem. What we do we do we real quick we we do also see that there there is some light at the end of the tunnel but it's not it's not in July and August of this year. I don't think that and I
065appreciate those comments. I don't think anyone is naive, right? I I don't think this is nor >> I'm sorry. I'm just I was just trying to provide that. No, I'm not I'm not trying to argue or anything like that. I'm not trying to fend anything. I'm just saying that that uh this is a this is a complicated situation for every client that we're dealing with, every single solitary client >> and and we don't right and it's not a situation that that the board is saying or that I'm saying speak for myself that market conditions aren't crazy that there's not inflationary pressure, >> right? What I'm saying is it's unacceptable in 30 days to go from we're six million over budget with a lot of contingencies left to we're $12 million over budget in 30 days.
066That's unacceptable. >> I I would agree that those numbers I would agree. I would agree that that's a big change of time. Absolutely. >> It's a big problem. That is that is not market conditions. Market conditions is not a 50% overrun in 30 days. >> Question. Let me ask a question if I could. I'm sorry. Go ahead, Kirk. >> Sorry, Mike. I was just say Mike I appreciate uh the the highle perspective there and kind of help summarize I think for for those people who are trying to take this all in as a whole you know holistic project it's a lot a lot going on in the world we all know this has changed a lot in two years the market has changed it is what it is like Nolan said I don't think anybody
067here is naive about that one key question I think we need to go back to and I'm not sure if this was Bear was going to ask but I I saw the slide deck uh comment about the transformer at middle school and we've talked about that timeline and I've also heard board members uh issue here to the project team expectations about creative solutions or alternatives to stay on timeline. What are the next steps to explore that? And and when are we going to get some more information about what those creative next steps or alternatives are going to be for a crucial timeline for that transformer issue that you highlighted today during the meeting, >> Pete or someone or Holly? I think I think Brad or Sarah may be the best to answer this at this
068point. Okay, >> this is Brad Moes with Moes Engineering. We're going to look at a variety of ways to solve the problem. Um whether it's potentially just buying a transformer from Duke Energy and then giving them the one that you've pre-ordered with in some sort of an exchange when it comes in. Um we've talked about renting a transformer. I can't believe that between now and next July that that hurdle can't be overcome. >> It sounds like Brad, you guys are working on some solutions or some creativity uh here, but again with regards to this timeline and the public, we have to communicate this very clearly like Craig said. So when will we get some more concrete information on those possibilities? >> I'm scans. We'll have that next week. We'll have a fully vetted out schedule
069with updated deliveries, you know, showing either good news or bad news or whatever, and then potentially some um recovery plans. >> And Pete, just to follow up on what we saw in the slide deck today, once the transformer is secured, procured, and secured on campus, how much time is needed after that point? So, it's not just buying and getting a transformer. You're telling us you also need time after it arrives >> three to four months just related to that product, you know, when we get into firming up window deliveries and other items that that were on that slide. >> So, I'm just I don't I'm not trying to put you on the spot, Pete, or Scansa or MCS, but what I want to say is I've heard anywhere from two to four months as the
070range, and I think what I heard from the board today is we're going to want a much more definitive timeline by next week. So if we have to talk to the the legislative entities locally, we have to talk to the people about temporary permits or usage or whatever that is to go along with getting the power up and running. We need to have a much more definitive timeline by next week. >> Other question that you had or members? >> Thank you. You answered one of the questions and that was to get some more detail on the transformer and that process. The other question I had is looking forward, you know, we're bidding this project now, right? In the last month or so, if people looking at these bids, in six months from now, we could
071be looking at a very different world. And I if this recession happens, if the slowdown occurs, what opportunity even after we sign these GMP contracts, what opportunities for savings exist if all of a sudden the price of flooring material plummets or the price of some other item plummets? What opportunity for savings is there a year from now, six months from now, or is that or is there no no opportunity for that? once once we lock in our subs, you know, in today's current market, let's just say, let's say we figure it out and get everything approved in the next month or so. Um, and then all of a sudden we get a a recession, you know, six months down the road. I mean, the only way we could do anything different would be is if
072we hold off on and call the site finishes, the landscaping, the playground, anything related to what we would buy at the very end. Maybe some alternates we could take out of the general trades or some of the finish packages now and buy it as we get into the, you know, last quarter of the job bearer. you know, could get >> basically you'd have to hold you'd have to hold it as an allowance almost. >> Yeah, you would almost just hold it as an allowance within the current GMP. And let's say I go through and take all the interior finishes that I could buy at the very end of the job for, for example, wall wall panels and stuff. I mean, we've we've and Holly can speak to this too. I mean, we've gone into jobs
073and added hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars of I call it interior kind of like enhancements at the very end. sometimes after whether it's gym sound baffles etc. I mean, we've put those up in gymnasiums after, you know, at Christmas breaks following a fall opening when you realize, you know, the final budgets. >> I guess maybe that in my mind I'd like to at least consider that if we're at the stage where, you know, looking at every possible saving solution, >> you know, are there things, you know, landscaping pops to mind. Not that that's going to be a huge line item in the overall project, but if that's when we can wait to lock in that price at a later date or just things of that nature that I'm probably not thinking
074of, >> I think it's worth at least throwing that on the table. It may not be a huge number, but it might be something. Well, and I think the other thing um we kind of touched on when we were looking at some of those solutions and strategies was the high school um renovations and the transportation because if we don't look to contract in until the end of the year, we do still have some opportunity to um see if those numbers in the market has changed a little bit within that timeline. Yeah, >> I think the other thing to reiterate from the last board meeting and again I appreciate everyone's efforts. I know everyone on all the project team is working hard and is very very competent. Please let's make sure that the 3.2 ballpark and
075owner contingency is in the 1.2 that scans is holding in CMR that we're as diligent as possible >> to keep that whole because that's $4.4 million. Obviously some of it's going to have to get used but that's $4.4 $4 million that we potentially plus the allowances. I mean, all I I want to be very very judicious moving forward on the allowances, the soft costs, the CMR, the owner's contingencies that were protecting that like it's a brand new baby, you know, because at the end of the day, that's something that we have some relative control over. >> Yes. And um I was like that is something we look at as a project team every week every Wednesday morning we are we are talking about the issues talking about the questions what's coming down the line what
076do we think a magnitude is for any change that we do have. So we are reviewing that by labor by material every time we we start to look at those questions and and and possible changes. Um, and then with that historically, and I know historically is thrown out the window when we when we talk anymore, but historically I was like we've looked at about 50% of that is used in most of our projects over time. So whether it's CMR contingency andor um owner contingency um that's why we put it there. We we put enough, especially in the renovations, if we open up something and we find something we weren't um that we're we're taking down or discovering for unforeseen conditions, but we have certain timelines where we have less risk involved. So, when we get
077out of the ground, we have less risk. When we get enclosed, we have less risk, things like that. So, as we move through the project, you'll be keep you'll be kept up to date on on how we stand in each of those kind of milestone timelines. >> Um, thank you, Holly, for that. Uh, again, just a good reminder as we move towards the end of a project, how things are going to work. Um, I think Bill Baker was reminding me yesterday about um we want to make sure, right, we're protecting, as Nolan says, program and scope as much as possible with our money. Uh it's it's our our stakeholders and community members money. Um that's the bottom line and the board um needs to ensure that we're getting clear communication on that. Uh Nancy, Nikki,
078U Craig, final comments. >> Yeah, just to level set. So we need to make sure we get these dollars back so we understand where we are. Then we can look at the holistic package, make an educated decision on what we need to do. None of us again to repeat want to cut back the scope, but we need to understand what we're dealing with. So I I I get it. Mike, you were talking about cost going up. I'm building five different stores around the country. We lock our our stuff in when we start. Obviously, this is not as big or as complicated a project as what you're dealing with here. But costs are not going down. They're not stabilizing. They're going up. So, we're trying to lock them in as best as we can so that
079we can be prudent about what we're doing and and get the maximum amount for what we're we're trying to get for this community. >> And I and I think u going back to that one of the things that we've talked about, we continue to talk about within this project, every other one is to expedite as much as possible any kind of clarification, information, documentation, plans, whatever those elements are that are necessary to get those prices in place. So if that that that's what we're doing right now. We are, you know, we're not this is not a coast job. This is a move forward quickly job so that we can lock those in. Um and I agree with you that what we're we're not hearing uh that prices are going uh down. We're not we're hearing
080they're going up. But even if they do start to go down, they will not they and what we have heard nationally is that they will probably not go down to pre uh 21 numbers. they will stay uh higher um to it's almost like a a catch up on inflation over a period of time. We saw numbers of construction from um 2003 2004 we started seeing numbers at about one and a half to 2% increases per year. As we started to get into the depression in 2008 uh prices plummeted as we come out of that we saw prices almost stagnate for a period of time. What we're seeing now is an incredible hike in there. So, what we can do is to look at all the design elements, check them out. You know, let's make sure
081we're not doing something that isn't that isn't um in in in keeping, but uh we we're doing we don't want to reduce the scope. We don't want to reduce the idea of what the quality of the building is and what's been promised. Uh but it's also a level of clarification and creativity in the marketplace. And I think that uh no one said that. I mean, the idea of this is a different time and a different place. And if that's the opportunity to look at a creative process, we have found that the process of design has become more and more about procurement of products sometimes than actually doing a design. It is looking at that upfront and that's not where that mark where the market was six months ago. So we we are going back and
082looking at everything ourselves. >> So I just want to let you know that we are doing that and our engineers are as well. >> But um I I do go back to communication. And I know that everybody's moving a lot faster, but I think that any communication that any one of us has uh as quickly as possible goes to the right resources and the right people so that we can make uh documented decisions uh that that are meaningful. >> Thank you, Mike. Nikki or Nancy? >> Yeah. So you know we understand the market is different and we I don't think any any of us would disagree that we all understand that you guys are working very hard your teams are working very hard and we really appreciate that. The only thing that we want is
083the quality that we promised should remain the cost we need to keep it down as much as we can. I know the costs are going up but still you know we got to work on those prices. is we got to expand our scope of reaching out more vendors and not just Cincinnati go beyond and things that we have never done maybe we try doing that to see if we can get some better bids timeline which is very important as we have said from the beginning that the middle school building will be open during 2024 we got to keep that timeline intact and then the communication needs to be very clear and very transparent. So that's all. But rest, we really appreciate all you guys are doing and it's not easy. It's not easy for you
084guys. It's not easy for us. It's not easy for anybody. So you know, we do appreciate you all. So don't get us wrong. It's just we want quality, cost, timeline, and communication. That's the key. >> Thank you, Nikki. >> Folks, is it all right if I say a couple of words? Um my my name's Karum Evan and I'm with Scansa. I am um standing in for Chris Hopper today who was unavailable and I've just been listening to the whole conversation and and um just want wanted to say a couple things if you don't mind. Um first off I oversee roughly half of all of Skansa's offices which is essentially the entire eastern part of the country. So, in terms of dollar volume, that's somewhere around, you know, $2.2 billion worth of construction um going on.
085And um I I just want to issue a u issue may maybe a word of caution. this um problem that that that is being faced on this project and by this collective team is playing out everywhere across the country. And I'm sure you know that and I'm not minimizing it. Um but um every construction project, as I'm sure you all know, is quality, time, and money. And this morning I've heard that there is certainly no relaxation on expectations of quality. There is no relaxation or consideration for changes in scope um or program. Um, and there's no re there's no relaxation um or movement in terms of time, which really leaves us with the cost element here that that we're dealing with. Um, and each time I see these scenarios playing out, um, there is often
086a misconception that by waiting something will get better. And I just want to offer that that we are playing with fire by doing that. I understand the gravity of the problem uh the financial challenges here. But unless we have done something wrong and I'm going to leave this to Pete there, you know, there was an inference that somehow we haven't done what we should in terms of collecting bids, putting the job out to bid properly. Um, I am not immediately close to it, but I would state my reputation that is not what's happened here because as I said, this is playing out everywhere. >> So, >> Mr. in the in the efforts of moving forward. Sorry, Nolan. Mr. Evan, I I uh appreciate your commentary and um uh we're not we're not asking for a
087defense of Scansa at this time and I I get what you're saying. I think everybody does um and we will circle back to the project team about this. Um and I think uh for the sake of the whole group uh there is a level of understanding of what you just summarized and um we're going to process through that with you. No one here has said today um that we're asking a project team member to defend themselves. We're simply looking for solutions at this point. Uh with that uh Mrs. Ikez, would you like to say a few words before we close up the meeting? Um, sure. I really don't have anything uh additional. Everyone's really covered things really well, but I think um, you know, we all just have to be super creative. We cannot go
088millions of dollars over budget on this. You know, we've already gotten the community excited about a huge additional project and um, there's just so much to take into consideration with all this money. And I agree with Craig, you know, we don't have some pot of money sitting somewhere that we can dip into. So, let's all work together, get this fixed. I would appreciate um I think someone else already said it, but having um information farther ahead of meetings so that we can make some legitimate decisions. At this point, I don't feel like I could vote on anything. So, um that would be super helpful. And I know you're all trying hard to get that done. So, um you know, that's really that's really all I have to say. But we we have to protect the
089taxpayers money and we have to protect the integrity of the project. This is a long-term lifetime investment for this district and these buildings have to be, you know, the best possible quality and standards that we can provide because they have to last, you know, pretty much forever. So, I appreciate what everyone is doing and um thanks for getting back to us as soon as you can with new numbers. >> Yeah. And I want to I want to thank all the project team members and members of the group that joined us today. Again, if I look across this screen, right, we don't see all of you every day, but we've got 25 26 people on this meeting for a reason because we're Indian Hill. We're uniquely Indian Hill. We don't care about what's going on in
090the rest of the country when it comes to this project. We're going to make sure we do what's right for Indian Hill. And and I appreciate all the information that was shared today. uh MCS and the partners, thank you for putting that high level slide deck together. Um and Mr. Talls, um at this time, if we can finish up, we'll turn it back over to you. >> Yep. I I will just echo the the thanks. I know the challenges you guys face and I know it's frustrating at times. It feels like we're asking for the impossible. Uh the reason we're doing it is because we are so invested in do um our our job in protecting the school board and making this the best we can do. And I know we're going to work together.
091um we'll clean up some of the communication issues moving forward and work together to to to build a project that um we open this thing in, you know, 14 months. Uh we're all going to be very proud of um so thank you for everything. Um with that, if there's nothing else, I would move to make a motion or ask for a motion to close the meeting. >> Did move. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> All right. Thanks everybody. >> Thank you guys. Okay everybody.