001I'd like to call this meeting to order. Um, I have myself and Elizabeth Johnson are present as well as Jim Nichols, Kirk Kcki, and Mick Davis. >> Good morning, everybody. >> Good morning. >> The technical part of this meeting may have to change a little bit with how we present. if anybody wants to see something. But I believe we sent a number of documents to all of us uh to look at and really I think what we wanted to be able to do Dr. Hooker and Elizabeth uh is to have some conversation about uh those resources and uh uh maybe just have Mick explain and summarize the process we've been through the last three weeks. >> Well, can can I start by stopping? Um, we ain't doing this. Okay, I I've already talked to I
002looked at all this stuff. These people are insane. I'm not spending a half million dollars or a million and a half dollars to have them do a project management. Ain't happening. No way. This is obscene. These people should go to jail for asking for this kind of money. I I I went out and I spoke with uh Mr. um Manning who's on this uh city council u and I talked to him about it. He's a structural engineer who has done tons of this kind of work, works with architects all the time. He was like he fell out of his chair with these pricing. He goes, "That's ridiculous. No, nobody pays that. You should not pay that." He said typical owner's agent should be maybe a retired architect who's done this for years and years and
003can keep an eye on things for you if you want to pay some small amount of money or probably in our school district we can probably find a retired architect that would do it for free. Um there's no way um this is obscene. I don't know where these guys think they can get off charge this kind of money. Where did this idea come from? Because usually the architects handle >> project management. Who came up with this idea? >> Where did this come from, >> guys? Where did this come from? Who who said, "Let's go down this pathway because we aren't." I also already talked to Nancy and she was like, "What? How in the heck could we justify that to the district? That's crazy. >> Well, thank you for your your viewpoint, Eddie, because I
004was astounded that we even were considering this. It was just like, what the heck? So, >> nobody >> I think we need we need to carefully hire our architects. They need to be responsible for this stuff. They do work for us. we're paying them money and uh we have had the architects do this kind of stuff in the past. I don't disagree with the concern that we had Kenny kind of trying to keep an eye on the shop before. I know Jim is super busy. Uh and probably Jim I don't you know you're a smart guy but I don't have I don't know what things cost. You know Jim are you locked up? Am I having a conversation with myself >> with me? Can you hear me, Eddie? >> I can hear you. Mick, are
005you there? >> I can hear both of you. The other two >> Jim and Kirk are locked up. >> Yeah. Can you hear me? >> I can hear you. >> Okay. >> I feel like we're doing one of those uh commercials for uh you know, >> can you hear me now? >> Can you No. So, Mick, tell us where this idea come from to even hire to even look at this. I mean, this is just absurd to me. >> Uh, this is uh standard practice among other school districts. Um, Marammont is currently working with one with one now. I don't know if it doesn't really matter, I guess, at this point where the idea came from if if it's not being considered. So, we just need to find figure out the next step on how
006we uh how we manage our project. >> I spoke with I'm sorry, listen, go ahead. >> I said it's just a surprise to Eddie and myself because typically uh I've worked with architects. This is part of their job, >> right? And it So, Mick, I I talked to Mr. Cooning, Mr. Manning about this and he said that um there has you know this is kind of a newer thing but he said you know we need to pick our architect very carefully and I asked him I said would you be willing as a community member to be part of a committee um a knowledgeable committee you know we have board members but we'd have some architects and people from the community to help us interview and hire the right architect. Maybe it's MSA and maybe it's
007somebody else. Uh but I think we need to carefully dissect who the right architect firm is. I mean MSA has done a good job for us but they've not had their um uh themselves checked in a long time. >> Um so I Mr. Manning, who again is very brilliant, is a structural engineer, works with architects all the time, but I think we need to I I thought about potentially calling Tim Sharp. I know he doesn't live in the district anymore, but Tim is obviously an architect, but I I guarantee you we have six or eight architects in our district. Hello there. >> Hi, Dr. Apologize. Our our network is dropping here. We can hear you guys talking, but just so you're aware the recording stops. Um, and I just I just want to be careful
008about that since we're having a public meeting. >> It does say record. It does say record in the in the corner of my screen. >> Yeah. I've got record down. >> Okay. For some reason, because we lost the power, we think last night is back on. Our network is a little bit jumpy here. >> I've been kicked out. So, we can hear you. If you guys want to keep talking, I can do this on the phone and hopefully it will be recording, but I won't be able to tell that right now. >> Right. I've got you sitting next to my computer on speaker. >> Okay. Jim and I can both hear you here on conference. >> Okay. So, >> I apologize. I missed the last three minutes of whatever you said. So, I >> real
009quick summary is that we Elizabeth, myself, I actually talked to Nancy about this. No way, no how. That's ridiculous amount of money. No can do. Um, we hire the architectural firm to do this job. Uh, and we need to be, uh, that they've done it that way before. I have no problem with trying to find a somebody that's a retired architect in our community uh or maybe not in our community that wants to either charge nothing or charge a small reasonable amount of money um for uh to add an additional set of eyes on everything that's going on. That's fine. I get it that uh you know it it Jim uh you know obviously you have a ton of other things you're working on but um you are going to be the interface from us
010to these people all the time but you don't have the skill set. I I don't have the skill set. I mean we don't you haven't built a school uh to my knowledge. Um and so you don't know what things should cost and you know all that stuff. So that that's where I think our architectural firm that we hire, we have to make sure they're smart, capable, know what the hell they're doing. Um, but I really disagree with the concept that the architectural firm doesn't have our our back because if they don't, we hired the wrong firm. That's that's who we need to be hiring carefully. uh MSA. I remember many times, and Elizabeth probably does too, when we had the the um >> uh um theater and when we had the central plant, they would
011come to us and say, "We've told the construction people, "This isn't going to work or this isn't right or they've got to speed it up. They're behind." That was all managed by the architectural firm. I don't need to pay somebody a million and a half dollars to tell the architect how to do their job. >> Absolutely. It just makes no sense. >> That's like me not to uh supervise your work, Eddie. Would you like that? >> Yeah. >> Well, I mean, that's it. So, why don't we um uh So, what let me understand this idea because if it's true, I missed it somehow. Or we're going to go out and look at different architects. We're not going with MSA. Well, I think we should cut the card. >> We have to >> ask a clarifying
012question. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I think I think the idea of the RFQS was that we would go out and obviously learn learn some of these things about about this and and we're going to obviously explore other options from what I'm hearing. And so just a clarifying question or two, what I'm what I heard you say, Eddie, was we it would be okay if we we ended up maybe finding someone to help consult for a small fee or to advise. And you mentioned that in your opinion, I guess they should be an architect. Are you open to them being someone who is a retired construction manager or a retired engineer or you >> Why Why not? Absolutely. And I I think >> I just want I just want to make sure. Yeah. >> Because
013I think one of the things one of the things we've learned about this over and over is that hundreds of school districts do this in hundreds of ways. And while some of them might have an internal administrator or business consultant or business manager, some people hire project managers and owners reps. Some people go out and they contract with someone by the hour as a consultant. and they typically are someone who is experienced in the industry and looking for uh to do their own thing. Um and so I just want to make sure that if that's the option or direction that you guys want us to go in that you know that's what we're looking for. >> I I think Eddie it's a bit premature to to do that. I think we need to be looking
014for architectural firms and maybe one of the ways we do it is look at some of the newer schools that have been built. we may like and reach out to those architectural firms. >> Yeah. I I think that the thing was that that I think Kirk and Mick, you know, they they I think probably looked right down the street and saw Marrymont and they're using this, you know, firm. I I just can't justify to the citizens of Indian Hill to waste a million half dollars. They're not going to save me a million and a half dollars. They're gonna cost me a million and a half dollars. Uh, >> to be fair, to be fair, Eddie, this was a We were reaching out to companies to research this. We had no idea what the cost was
015going to be. >> I'm not I'm not mad. I'm glad you did this. I'm absolutely ecstatic. You should have. Why would you not? But I think now that we see what these people want to charge, forget it. Uh, no. How would we have known what they charged if they had come back and say, "We charge $50,000." Okay. You know, I probably wouldn't have blinked. I would have said, "Yeah, that's reasonable to have someone else supervising and being our owner's rep." That's fine. These people have lost their way. They They must just be uh I mean, they must be great salesmen if they're selling people for a million and a half dollars to That's crazy. So, what I've seen, Eddie, at other projects, just so that you guys are aware, um, is in the case if
016you actually looked at that information, you know, with what, uh, MCS quoted, that would probably be a good example of somebody who decided to go out and create their own firm and and their own shingle and they try to break down their costs annually based on how long they think they might work with the district. And if you break out their estimate over three years time, obviously it's a little bit less money. Um and and if that's too much, that's fine. But I think those are some of the examples that we would see um separate from some of these larger owners agent firms that that propose using a team for you. And then I think there are other situations we've seen and heard of around where somebody is in effect hiring somebody by the hour
017and as a part-time um project manager or consultant and and you end up like you saying paying a lower fee and a lower amount. Uh although you may work with them for you know two years or two and a half years during the project. >> Right. I I think that so to me I think we need to go out right now and look for our uh architectural firm. Okay. And it might be MSA. I I I'm not throwing any rocks at MSA but we have to and I think we need to say to them how are you going to make sure that you're doing these owners reps you know have given us all this stuff. We expect that out of you. How are you going to do that for each one of these firms? We
018need to say, you know, how are you going to project manage so that you get us the best dollars, keep things on time, you know, all that stuff. That really is the architectural firm's job. And >> we have because you approved the um RFQS last month, um we have the ability uh to get that process started for both the CM and the architect. And again, I'm hearing you say go with the architectural firm first. >> Yeah. because they're they are the people that set everything up to be able to bid the the contract or the construction managers. We always have to start with the architectural firm. So, we've got to decide who who we who we want to be in bed with architecturally, right, Elizabeth? I mean, that's the way >> absolutely >> the way
019we've always done it. And then we need to say to MSA and whoever else say, "Okay, well, why would we use you?" I I I really am strongly and I think Elizabeth would agree, we strongly want to use a firm that's done a lot of school work. MSA has done a ton of school work. I'm not saying we have to stay in bed with MSA and it worries me a little bit that we have used them for a lot of years without switching firms. So I'm not I don't want to switch just for switching. Okay. >> Yeah. But we've got to find a firm that has knows schools, understands building schools, has already built a bunch of schools and made a lot of mistakes because we always make mistakes and so we can learn from
020them. >> Eddie, when we you before you were on the board, we looked at going geothermal to save energy and what we did the committee we went to several schools to look at them and and understand what they've done. And I think and I've been to several schools and there are things that I admire about the new uh designs and I would definitely look at some of the newer builds and see what we like and that's a good way to reach out to to an architectural firm and maybe we come back to MSA. But, you know, I look at the high school design and I look at that inner courtyard which was, you know, quite a penny to to build and it's been a worthless space. I mean, >> it it did it it really
021did not turn out like we wanted. And and I'm sure we're going to have some of that, Elizabeth. I totally agree. But I'd like to I'd like to have a firm that's already made those mistakes. Um, and you know, and I think MSA has certainly learned a lot of what they've done right and wrong. Um, I will honestly tell you, I mean, they were on the thing for building the new building at Xavier and they didn't make the mistakes, the people at Xavier did. You know, they were they would tell Xavier what to do and Xavier didn't do it. >> So, >> you know, you got to be careful. We we need to make sure that we do check them, you and I and the rest of the board members when we say, "Wait a
022minute, that seems ridiculous, but we need to be careful that we aren't architects." But I totally agree with you. We really need somebody that's done this a bunch. >> And you know, one of the places we could reach out to is school the Ohio Schoolboard Association because I bet you they have a list of architects as well. >> They might. They might. But I think if we do an RFQ to the architectural firms and see who's interested in this work, then we ought to have not just us, but we ought to have some people, structural engineers and architects on that committee to help us decide that. And and said he'd be delighted to, and I'm sure I could we could find many others. You know, the other good thing with that is you're getting someone
023who really wants to do the job and it's better that they run after us than we run after them. >> Yep. So, the the RFQS uh for all three, which you guys approved last month, we we've already been doing some pre-work and we've already been approached by several um construction firms as well as the general architectural firms and and individuals who are going to have interest and are we expect to submit paperwork. We'll get the formal part of that going uh obviously and uh again o over the next few weeks um as we start bringing those groups in for interview meetings uh how would you like that process to look? Are you saying you would like to have someone involved in all of those interviews along with us? I >> I really think we should
024I mean are you an architectural uh expert? I'm not. Um, I would like somebody that that cares about the district of the the C, you know, cares about Indian Hill. Um, Mr. Manning said he would be willing to do that. I mean, it's it's relatively easy to add these people to Zoom meetings. Um, and I think we ought to, you know, uh, Mr. Manning's on city council, so he'd be a, you know, good person to approach. And that also builds some bridges. Did the two of you want um those people that we have on the committee uh to then bring forward recommendations as we were going to um uh or would you also like to be in on the interviews or would you like us to have them bring those those summary that summary information
025to you with us in another committee meeting? >> Well, no. I think that Elizabeth and or I both uh should be part of those meetings. I think this is really the absolute most critical step of this entire process and uh I think we both can make ourselves available for those meetings. Um and uh I really I think it's going to be important. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. Um just keeping our timeline in mind, one of the things that you know we've learned through this process and talking to all the groups, not just these these owners reps groups, um is how the construction firms are booking their work out in 2021. And assuming that we're going to have a a combined bond levy on a possible ballot in the spring of 21, if we are be to
026be successful, we're under the assumption that we want to begin that build project ASAP. And I I'm assuming we're all under that same assumption still. >> Absolutely. We need to get going. >> Yeah. So So I just as we're scheduling these meetings, I just want to keep everybody in mind. We really we have a target to try to build this team ahead of time so that we can show the public that we are ready but we also have to give these firms time to respond to us and let let us know if they can meet those timelines that we expect. >> Uh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. >> Okay. >> And and I you know I'm uh this yesterday was my last day in class. Um I am working uh you know next week five out of
027seven days in the ER but I'm available most days um to meet uh so uh in December. So we we just need to get these scheduled and and uh you know you're correct though Kirk it will take them uh days to weeks to be able to write up appropriate response. >> Well we're we're going to get a very tight timeline out to these groups. Some of them have already started talking to us so they know it's coming and um we'll try to turn that part around and then we will try to schedule the inerson meetings uh efficiently and we'll invite you guys into Zoom meetings with them um and as you start to see those on your calendar if either of you have a problem please just let me know right away and we'll try
028to fix it. >> Perfect. >> Sounds great. What else do we need to talk about? Anything else this morning? Can you can you give us an idea uh just Dr. Hooker in general if we are reaching out to some of these um part-time consultants or somebody who we want to vet with the two of you how you'd like to do that? Would you like to do that with the Zoom meeting separately? Uh would you like us to bring you one or two candidates? >> I I I'm not sure the best way to do that. Um Elizabeth, you have any thoughts? I I want we I know damn good and well we've got some architects andor some retired architects in our greater um Indian Hill community. Okay. >> What what what was the question? It kind
029of >> Oh, it's about trying to say how would we find people? I mean, Mr. Manning is certainly somebody that said last night he would be willing to help us and he's a structural engineer uh who works with architects all the time. But how would we find people to be on this committee to help us screen the architects? >> I don't have to give that some thought. >> Yeah. >> I think if if you have somebody you want us to reach out to, let us know. And if you could provide, you know, Mick with a contact for somebody, that would be great because then we can get to work on that. >> Yeah, I agree. >> Okay. >> And we'll I'll ask around with some of the other u uh districts and the projects they've
030been working on again for some specific names. We do know that there are some people out there who um have held various positions either in or out of schools that that do this kind of work as well. But I just want to go in the right direction that you guys are thinking here. Yeah, I would I would suggest actually calling Tim Sharp um and asking him. He he's pretty smart guy and knows a lot of people and he might say, "Oh, well, you know, John Smith lives over on uh North Clippinger. You ought to call him." I would I Tim would probably be a good good person. Tim might be willing to serve or he might not. I don't know. Um he certainly certainly continues to serve us on Great Oaks. Um, so, uh, >>
031my guess, Eddie, my guess, Eddie, is Tim won't be able to help us with that search. He's actually a I don't know if he's an owner or if he's an employee of a firm who's very interested in bidding that architectural work. >> Okay, that's great. But he would at least be able to tell us some other people. Maybe, maybe not. But if you don't feel comfortable, then don't contact him. It's I'll leave that up to you. >> Okay. Uh, I'll I'll ask uh I'll ask Mr. I Mick I'll send you Mr. Manning's uh contact info. Okay. Um so you can call him potentially being on that. Um >> Okay. >> He might have suggestions. >> Cool. >> All right. Anything else we need to talk about? [Music] I'm good, >> Kirk. >> I I don't
032have anything further about this topic right now. >> Any other topics though for operations? >> Uh, no, not at this time. >> How is everything going? Uh, because we're going to have a meeting. Well, this afternoon's just going to be an emergency meeting, but the one next Tuesday. How are things going with the energy thing? >> Uh, we just got our um the loan the loan number back. It was 1.66% 66% for 12 years. Um I do know they are um having some issues getting the cruise scheduled uh to get us kicked off because of the COVID situation. Um I'm scheduled to talk with Mr. Moes here soon to find out how we're looking as far as getting that scheduled. >> Okay. >> We'd like to get going on the lights obviously and over the
033holiday break would be a perfect time for that. >> So um I'm going to get talk with Mr. promotes and find out exactly where we stand on the timeline for getting the work together. Um, we should be should be closing on that loan that actually got delayed because of my current situation. Um, but I'm not I'm not able to uh sign live documents live at this point. So, >> yeah, >> it'll probably be a week later than we anticipated when we'll get the money. One thing that my uh investment firm does and I believe it is legal uh at least I hope it is. Um they have been having uh documents signed via Zoom and the uh notary on the other side is on the Zoom call and then when the papers come in they
034put their seal on it. And my firm says that that's completely legal. So you might be able to do that. Mick, >> check. I'll check with capital. >> Check with the bank and see whether they say Oh, yeah. We can do that. >> Yep. >> Cool. All right, everyone. And Mick, uh, if if we could have a brief update next Tuesday, you know, if you have all the info by then as to when timeline, that would be great. I'd love to have that as part of the operations uh, report. >> Yep, I can do that. >> Cool. All right, everyone. Thank you so much.