001All right. Today is January 15, 2026, and we're here for the River Board of Education special meeting. Um, Mr. Berdine, >> Mr. Bowler here, Mrs. Brackett >> here, >> Mrs. Burke >> here, >> Mrs. Rain >> here, >> Mrs. Stein >> here. >> Okay. Um, the first item is information and discussion items. So, discussion on new bills recently signed by the governor in regards to property taxes. Can I get a motion? >> You don't really need one discussion. No. >> Okay. >> So, I I pounded this a little bit the other night. >> Um, but there's there's four bills kind of in play and I talked more with the budget about just one of those with that cash reserve piece. It remains to be seen what happens with that. But others impacting us to the
002dollar amount I mentioned. There's House Bill 129 which strategically in my 10 years here we converted two we we knew we were going to hit the 20 mil floor. >> We then strategically decided working with the board our community finance committee at that point in time um to convert two emergency levies into a single continuing substitute levy because it was exempt from 21 floor calculation under prior law. So that has been eliminated. So all of that now counts toward the 20 floor. So we are no longer 20 mil floor. So as valuations increase, we used to get same slope of increase in revenue because we couldn't the 20 mills could never be affected by 920 anymore. The substitute millage could be and was. But that was 8.6ish. So moving forward, this 20 and this 8
003something become one number until we drop back to the 20th floor, which will be a long long time. Probably not my time here. So it'll be somebody else trying to figure out if you hit the floor again. And if we ever put another uh levy on, the options are more limited now to disallow those types of occurrences from happening in the future. So that's 129. That's the one that will get us the largest amount in the forecast absolute certainty. Um, House Bill 186 that caps the growth um that can happen on 20 mil. It basically puts an inflationary cap on um floor provisions. So the 20 and 30enters that we enjoyed in the past, those would be capped at a three-year average. They're going to use gross domestic product index, I believe, of the inflationary
004measure. So in general, 3% a year, I think, is a fair enough number to given that consideration. That one doesn't impact our particular forecast much because the retroactivity piece of it does because last time was a big one. Two had two in a row that were pretty sizable. But the next one I had at like 6.8 or something like that. So I think I'm pretty darn close to. So we don't get hit as hard on that one. That first one still wins larger. Um House Bill 335 applies similar caps to the inside millage. We have 5.7 of the 10 inside mills in statute. The district gets 5.7 of those. So that has that same inflationary type cap applying to it. So, it could impact us at some point in the future, but it doesn't have
005a lot of play in my forecast because I didn't I didn't go excessive in these future reappraisal and trying to update years. The fourth one that is 309 and that's the one I beat to death the other night. The county budget commission could do that, but um and I'm working there will be a lot of changes honestly to the next forecast. Um, we just did it. I did it in October. You approve it in November. It's going to be February, maybe March. I'll put it on the agenda. I'm just trying to get as much good information as I can. I'll file it on time so that won't be an issue. But I may, if I think I have good info by February board, I'll put it on there. Otherwise, I may hold it till March.
006Um, but I feel really good about what I have so far. Expense side stuff isn't really going to change much. Like, I know there's one thing to change with how we were able to pay off our House Bill 264 note. It's a $100,000 item one year. Not not a big mover on this thing. Healthc care I know we're going to probably be 12% plus. I think I 10 in the forecast, but I'll modify that. Um, but there's not a lot else that's changed in three months. So, we won't play with the expense side. The revenue side, I'll put it in the property tax impact. I'm also looking at the state revenue impacts of that because there can be as wealth factors contribute valuations impact the state formula. I won't dig too deeply into that. Um,
007a it's too detailed and b I'm not as well prepared for that as a property tax form in all honesty. Um, but there could be some impacts longer term on that. But also I do know factually that just from when I used I believe the October data maybe it was September data state foundation funding we've had some movement in that with transportation because we file our estimates based on our new routes estimated costs we do all that stuff preschool special education transportation has it own funding component to it as our preschool numbers change there's a funding component with that those keep shifting so I'll likely update that because um that's probably uh negatively about 150,000 or so a year right now. So I'd want to get that in for the four years moving forward so
008that you have the impact of that as we look at things. Um, I say all that say it's going to downturn because just the property tax reform um loss uh I think I mentioned already some county gave like a they gave a December distribution of money that said there was a a rate adjustment made. Um I don't think it was a rate adjustment. I think they had more money that had been collected in taxes like the rates are the rates. I don't really believe that it's a rate adjustment. is kind of what I think as they looked at there's a lot of money sitting there in districts not us but not just school district fees e either political entities needed cash so we got a distribution of fair 60 or $80,000 so but that stuff
009impacts my forecast because it fits in certain fiscal years and forecast periods so I have that completely updated to include that settle revised settlement that they issued to that so I think from my last forecast we will be down just from property tax reform through FY30, we'll be down about $3.5 million. So, you kind of heard me say a million bucks. Well, it's 900,000, but I'll be conservative and I'll round. So, you know, in the spirit of it is pretty close. The impacts start in FY27, but it's a half tax year because tax year is calendar year. We are July to June fiscal. So there's but you know it escalates from roughly 200,000 to 1.2 to 2.2 to 3.5. So is it a million? Kind of over the four year average. The longer term is
010it's probably going to escalate up to 1.235 somewhere in there. I think at some point we're not going to look at did we lose any money anymore because we're not going to be referencing back to pre-tax reform days. So we're going to have these conversations for maybe a year or so now and then we'll probably just move on. let let it go that that's the new norm. So, but I said to John when we were chatting earlier this afternoon, I said I don't want to leave you or the community with like the sky is falling impact. I know there's things that you all might like to do financially. I will say my line that we need to consider all those. Is there something we can cut to offset the increased cost of whatever we choose
011to add? But we all we fund our priorities. We had that conversation in November about a topic when we were walking the sidewalks there in a good way. Walking the sidewalks. We were just out walking the sidewalk. >> Sounds a little bit rough, but walking the sidewalk. You were all with us. The two of us were chatting. So, >> just me. So, you always should consider funding your priorities. I don't decide how you spend Revier's money. I will help guide the conversations. I will probably always lean on the fiscal conservative side. I don't think I'm a no guy like some treasurers are labeled. Um but we should be mindful of we're going to lose about a million bucks as part of the conversation. And I can say to you today that in here you've approved
012for a number of years now. uh six I think $300,000 transfer for roofs and $200,000 transfer for technology. I talked with John Mike both and said, "Hey, we may take that out because that covers a half million of our million." And I know that we are in four years we're going to pay off the bonds for the high school portion that we did the $7 million borrowing. So that's going to free up a significant amount of money in our PI fund that we can ship those back. I also know that Mike and I consciously made a choice summer fall with our roofing consultant to take on some major repair areas because the replacement areas were getting to be much larger than $300,000 and it was taking us two, three years to amass the money we
013needed and then we're getting more problems in a certain area and we're patching and repairing. So, we did kind of a comprehensive that they believe our roof consultants I'm not I'm afraid to get to the edge of the roof. Mike goes up with them all the time. I go part way. But um we believe because of their professional expertise that what we bought for about 150 grand of all these little projects, 130 um will buy us time to get out beyond the payoff of that debt. So we strategically did what we did. I have facility decisions I've made in my career that I've later had to regret. But I would tell you those are few. And anybody that's done enough of these big projects, if you haven't made a few, you probably really didn't make
014very many decisions because we don't all hit them 100%. And I do my darnest on behalf of any district where I've ever worked to make sure I get them right. But there's some I wish I got a bogey to do them over and you don't get those. So Mike and I feel confident in that. So I think it allows us to do that. John are going to work through some discussions on the tech side to get that um for what he needs and and plans to do. If if that's a decision, you don't need to make that decision today. I'm just suggesting there's a million loss. There's about a half million to get in the forecast because last year we saved about $570,000 in attrition savings from our staffing replacements. Just salary side, not fringe
015side included. Not insurance side, I should say. We do factor in a fixed insurance cost. So I have in 300,000 for next year. So we can't say we save five and count it towards the other five because I already have three in the forecast. So five becomes two if that makes sense. >> So we just can't count money twice. We can't spend money twice. Everybody knows all those simple things of life. But um so as we have the conversations, property tax reform did us no favors. When I first talked about this, we were looking at $4 million loss. So did the lobbying efforts of Dan, me, others, our associations that we work with. Did it help? Darn right it helped. Did it make it great? No. But it made it a lot better in a
016negative situation. So it's kind of a summary of the bills. I can answer questions. If you want more, I can probably spill more, but I the sky is not falling. When I I mentioned the other night, I started adding in that budget reserve line 9.80 last forecast. I'll keep it in. I have it at career center as well. You may have seen, but um you're allowed to put in the budget reserve 5% of the prior year's revenue. 2450 is a pretty fair number. It doesn't change much. So, you can't accumulate that, but it doesn't count towards that whatever percentage calculation might become relevant. Um, I don't think it's going to be 30. I purposely said 40 to 100 the other night because 40 is where the Senate had landed after the House's 30, the governor's
017commission was at 100. So, I didn't make those numbers up. Those were real numbers that were in two bodies that worked on this. So, um, I'm comfortable in that range for River that that we'd be good. But one of the things they were basing it on was the line up above 7.020. Well, the budget reserve line comes down below. So, I'm like, we're taking that one out if they're going to use the one up above. It's all general fund money. It just has a different name. It's still ours. It's still to spend. Um, so you know, if I look at the last forecast, we were looking at 19.7 or with our incumbrances and reserves out, we were 16.9. Today, property tax reform only, not foundation, no expenditure adjustments, nothing else. Property tax reform only. Those
018numbers move from 197 to 162 and from 169 to 134. So we have money. We can have conversations. You all can talk and think and do what you want. I don't I won't decide. You will. Um, what I would caution is when we look at these forecasts, when we start to get into deficit spending, that's when the treasurer side of me says, "Whoa, because the larger the deficit spending, the more the millage requests down the road." So, we just always have to be mindful as to what the timing and the amount is that we need or want to do that. That's not today. So, I'm not here to tell you you can't do a darn thing you want and you got no conversations. Time to go home. That's not the conversation. But John and I
019shared a story and and this hadn't happened in my time. I remember probably hasn't for 17 years here, but I I worked at a district at one point, not where we were together, where you went to the superintendent, asked for something, you asked how you were funding it, and you had to have the funding plan, which was usually eliminating something you were already doing. We rarely have that type of conversation in my decade in rever. We constantly do a lot of adding. We did have the board at a point in the past say make staffing changes a zero sum game. Uh the last couple of years we changed that mentality to hey if we have an opportunity to save fill where you need to and spend the money where you need to but if you
020don't need to hire a little less expensive if you still have the best candidate. So it wasn't to sacrifice quality, but if you can still gain quality and gain savings, we were looking at those things. So that's for me as your treasurer has been a pleasant shift in mentality than what we might have had for three to five years prior to that. So I'll be quiet unless you ask questions. >> How much is the bond expense every year? >> About 820,000. >> Okay. And you said how many more years? Four more years. We just made December 1, November 30, we made payment six. That's why when Mike and I looked at that proposal from the the roofing company, it seemed to make a lot of sense. If we could buy five or more, which was
021his optimism, we could get these repairs done, do our normal patch of repair work over the next four years, and buy time to get that $300,000 out of the general fund if we want need to do that, even if we want to reallocate it to other things. But, you know, I want you to be able to have conversations about things you might like to do as a five member board in concert with Dan. Um, but I want us to also be mindful there's an impact on the finances for that because we're dealing with the we're seeing impact from that property tax reform. >> Do you think Oh, sorry. >> Go ahead. I was just going to add that the other part of it is the uh I guess that petition to get rid of property
022taxes that they are pushing and so just talking through I think you and I talked about like educating our community helping them understand that >> as of right now there is no plan as far as replace property taxes. Of course property taxes are how we fun our >> snow removal employees, fire, schools and all those things. So, um I think that could be just a huge detriment to our state if that actually goes through. >> So, that was actually one of my questions. Um was whether you felt that with these changes going into place that there's a lessening of that voter driven initiative to reduce like have you heard any scuttlebutt about how successful it has been, will they get it on the ballot and will our legislators push against it? like if they felt
023that they've done the job in Columbus, will they then join those lobbying efforts? >> Oh, I don't think there's any doubt that will occur. >> Okay. >> Every political entity statewide, regardless of how I, Rick or Dy feel about this, >> the all those groups are coming to say, are you crazy? How are you going to manage this? I don't care who it is. They're all saying I think from OEA oopsy I think they're all coming after that because we all know what fills the pot. >> Yeah, >> it would be naive not to believe that. So yeah, I think it'll be aggressive. >> Okay. >> I don't know where they stand. That's a good question because there was a lot of that rhetoric going on >> pre-election. It seems to have subsided. I don't
024know if that's because of this because of the holidays because they aren't getting the traffic they wanted with signatures. I I honestly don't know. I was on a call with the county executives this week and the county executives seem to be hearing that there is some kind of disagreements within that grassroot grassroots effort group that has made them kind of slow their effort down because they're not quite agreeing with each other still within the group. So the anticipation is that it is likely that they will not at minimum not be on the November ballot. >> Okay. no guarantee obviously because they could get organized again. Um, however, the signatures have not been turned in. So, they remain valid indefinitely until they essentially try to get certified with them. So, they can keep what they've gathered
025and continue to try to gather additional signatures beyond the November election. >> Most of you know, if I'm not here with my family, I'm probably at a sporting event somewhere. But in my travels to Browns and Cavs games in recent months, >> I don't see the clipboards out anymore. >> And I did previously I did see them at Guardians games in the summer. So whatever that means, which is possibly nothing, but it's it is changing from my limited perspective right now. >> Yeah. So then my next question is is do you think that these bills that have passed have pretty much warded off any further budget bill vetos? Oh, I think so. I think there was a I I'm not a political machine guy at all. >> Um, >> well, we should expect that this
026is this was in place of vetoing overriding. >> I'm going to guess that the governor and his coalition and the legislative leaders probably had a kumbaya session that was like, leave some of this stand. >> Got it. and others may not happen or at least won't happen as quickly. >> Okay. >> Sorry. Bye association school administrators that they seem to think since those was it five of those were signed by the governor that that will be the majority of what's going to happen to public schools. >> Got it. >> Hearing there might be still some work on property taxes maybe in regards to tiffs. I think it was >> there was discussion about that back in the time. >> Yeah. But otherwise they seem to think it's going to be done. >> I think if
027they do something with tiffs, at least from what I was reading when they were talking about that becomes more favorable to us from the standpoint of they're going to try to reduce the amount that can be tiffed. And I I'm not here to get into an economic development debate with anybody about are those projects good or bad? Um because I've signed off on many of them in my career. one of the original ones as a sheriff at Ka Falls. I was part of that deal when schools didn't get a seat at the table. The city did their deal and you swallowed and took it. So, um, now our municipalities here with the with there are two projects that I can think of as I sit here where we weren't held 100% harmless. And for each
028of those, we were at the table for those discussions. One was literally the month I got hired here and one predates me. But those are the only two. The rest of them we've been held harmless from other types of payments. Crystal Clinic was a 50 center for 10 years. We're about six or seven into that as well. Um and then that will hit the duplicate at full value. That's about a half a million dollar revenue kick when that happens. So that's a nice one. >> What about National Interstate? I know that was another one. Is that one over or is that still going? >> Um, >> it's probably very close to the end of >> It's close to the end. That's correct. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Now, I know you've had a lot of
029conversations with Bill Rome. Are there still conversations to be had or is it there's nothing else to be done at this point? >> There's nothing right now. Um, Bill and I don't see eye to eye on much of this stuff. So, >> he's still taking your calls. >> He probably would. I mean, I've talked to Mr. probably would >> twice now who's running for that seat. Bill has this year and he's done. >> I like Bill. I know this being recorded. I do like Bill. I just don't >> I I just don't agree with Bill on >> property tax reform and its impact on school districts within his jurisdiction. >> Now, Mr. Shanker, I know that you just kind of recently got the replacement schedule up and running for equipment. So hearing Rick say those
030discussions are underway, I'd like to hear your thoughts on >> Yes. looking at devices for students where we >> when we started one to one, we bought the same device for everybody and then we had the problem five years later of everybody needs, right? >> And so we've moved to >> uh a model where we're replacing third grade every year and starting next year. We the plan was to replace the end of seventh grade. We may push that to the beginning of eighth grade rather than sending all the eighth graders home with new iPads at the beginning of the summer. >> Um, and then filling in a rich field kind of as they need to be replaced, not having a specific schedule, but when the iPads stop meeting and replace them there. >> Um, the
031bigger I mean, we can continue to do that. If we look at um it's probably not practical to extend that beyond five years for an iPad. You think back of five years ago the device that you were using or buying new, you probably don't want students using that, especially in 12th grade, >> right? and you know to a lesser extent at seventh grade. Um that cost right now is about $80,000 per grade level to replace the iPads or um $100 per iPad per year is a very rough number that that we kind of use for the cost of giving a device to students. Um the the variable right now is the infrastructure stuff. We you know in terms of like Wi-Fi networks and classroom technology, you know, replacing 88 in 83 in monitors in every
032classroom, you know, we've got a hundred of those at the high school. >> Um kind of planning for that stuff. And we're kind of in a lull in terms of infrastructure right now because we built two new buildings and then we spent three years kind of upgrading Richfield and the middle school to the same technology level and now we're kind of in that period where we don't need to do a lot of stuff and then starting in probably 27 28 29 that's when we're going to need to revisit network needs at the high school at math classroom needs and those costs are really unknown at this point because we don't know necessarily how long things are going to last. I'm not a big fan of replacing something just because it's old. I replace something when
033it doesn't do what we need to do anymore. Um I have found in in my career that network equipment tends to last a lot longer than the vendors want it to last. You know, they they want you to replace it in five years or six years and you know we've gone seven or nine or 11, right? >> You know, so when we start, we kind of monitor >> how those things are being used and how they're performing and and adapt accordingly. Um, I know that we will continue to leverage funding to to pay for a lot of that. We get a 50% discount on networking services if we go through the e-ray process and get federal funding for that. And there's there's no sign right now that that's going to change. But I think um
034in the short term, we're we're in very good shape because we're not doing infrastructure upgrades. We're just replacing devices and and we replaced most of the staff devices over the last couple years, too. So, they're they're in good shape for now. It's just figuring out long term what the sustainability plan looks like. >> And on the student device or or staff device for that matter on on computers and and tablets and things, we're seeing crazy increases in pricing because AI is taking all the air out of the memory market, >> right? >> Storage market. So, uh you know, every vendor that I use, there's a banner on their website saying, "Hey, you should order now because we're seeing, you know, exponential increases in prices." We haven't seen that with Apple at this point, but we
035just ordered >> uh iPads for eighth graders >> last week and pricing was the same as the iPads we ordered last spring. >> That's good. >> Um >> I mean where I'm used to things being cheaper every time I buy it and right now I'm happy with the same price. Right. >> And out of the PI funds right now, we are doing three buses one year, two buses the next with AJ, and we've added a truck and a van, as some of you will recall. Um, but if we need to tweak that schedule, we've reduced our bus fleet from 28 to 30 down to about 25. So, we generally run on about a 12 year cycle on those. But, as John said, you know, if if it isn't broken, we don't necessarily have to trade
036it in. So, if we squeeze that out to 13 or 14, yes, that might buy us an eight or $10,000 repair at some point, which I gag on those. But if it frees up a quarter of a million dollars to do some of these things in that four-year cycle that I talked about till the debt's repaid, once the debt's repaid, it's a new day. >> On the PI stuff, we we generally rely on that for the infrastructure kinds of things. And because we're not doing a lot of that now, we're in pretty good shape. And then I think the other key to that is not having surprises, right? You don't want to you don't ever want to go into the treasur's office and say, "I kind of need 100 grand." >> You know what I
037what you do want to say is, "I need I need 100 grand in 2031." And he can do he can. So as long as as long as we're planning ahead and we we go >> everything that we buy, we know that we're going to buy again, especially in technology that at some point all of the stuff has to be replaced. And so planning ahead for that is the key. We'll wait for it for four years. I mean, I have zero concern we can make it work till the debts repaid. None. >> Let's see. The other question that popped into my head when you were talking was buildings. We've got two new, but we've got two that are decently old. Additions have been made. Do we have kind of a long-term I don't think either of
038them to my knowledge are in a place where we're really considering anywhere in the short term replacing rebuilding whatever. But >> so when we did the Hback and had the facilities committee meeting, I was kind of finishing up about the time I came here um with that plan and we started to figure out how we could put Hback in and do some of those things with the LED lighting and the secure vestibules because prior to that the whole conversation was around doing what facilities construction commission required. Well, as we dug deeper into it, we already had the electrical infrastructure in place. We didn't need to do all those baseline things that they make you do in projects. So, we were able to free up that money for HVAC. When we did HVAC, we looked at
039two different types of projects for middle school in Richfield. One was what I I call the 25-year plan, and then we had a 50-year plan. The 25-year plan was what we did, and I would call it more like hotel air conditioning, you know, where you put the unit in the wall and you control the thermostat and life goes on. There were other more there was another far more expensive proposal we looked at would have been a 50-year plan. When we looked at everybody said the buildings aren't going to be used in 50 years but they probably will be used in 25. So I think we're five into that now. So my mind would be that in about 10 we need to reconvene a facilities committee to start to plan for the next bond issue. And
040then as you can imagine, when you get to a next bond issue, you're also then talking about your two new buildings. They're 25 years old, >> right? So that's another advantage of that PI fund not being used or bond retirement because if we free up 820 300 and 200 in any given year that we kind of reallocate a general fund, there's still 320 left to start to look at some of those um temporary infrastructure needs, let's say, to buy you out to that 20 years. So, that's been kind of the plan in place that we've worked through. I I just looked over the project board I keep in the office. Um, are there big projects in there? Yeah, like the roofing stuff we talked about. There's been conversation about replacing this building. Uh, that it's
041fine. I mean, is it grandure? Absolutely not. Does it work? Absolutely yes. We tried to put it in as part of the high school. Some of you will recall we didn't have the money to do it. So student spaces became priority and that's the right thing. U so this might be part of a discussion for a future bond issue as well that you could loop it in as an extension onto a building that you build or something like that. Add a few thousand more square feet to that. So >> um I think there's opportunities to do that. But when I look at the other, you know, we we have a wall issue that's already been repaired before I got here 10 or 15 years ago, middle school. We're continue to monitor that. Um, we brought
042out structural engineer said, "Don't spend big money on that right now. It's not bad enough yet. Let's keep watching it every year." So Mike goes over, watches, and he takes me once in a while. Um, but the building's not falling down. I don't say it for that reason, but it's not perfect. But 50 to 100 year old houses aren't always perfect. nor our school buildings or any other structures. So, there's nothing on there that's striking or imminent at all. I mean, I think a reasonable conversation today is in 10 years we start to plan. I say 10 thinking that those are good for 20 because I know how hard this district worked for so long to finally pass a bond issue. And when I came here, the conversation was, "Well, they didn't ask for enough
043money." I said, "How do you say that?" Well, they only asked for $68 million and they need 80. I think we spent 81 or two by the time we're done. He said, "For 25 years, these folks tried to pass an issue. They couldn't pass anything. They got beat how many times?" 68 million was the right number. Now, we have to figure out how to do it. Well, we figured it out. We had PI funds we saved. We had booster contributions. We had interest earnings. And back then, interest rates were better than they have been in recent times. I think we generated like 3.1 million in interest earnings that went to it. Um, and we did a we did an H HVAC lease purchase on the high school. It's 160,000 a year that will die come
044off the books here in about three or four more years as well. Um, and then we did the $7 million note that we paid out of PI funds. So, we cobbled it together to get from what the community deemed they could do and would approve and it passed. So, I'm not a second guessing that it was the right number. Got approved, we did it. So, starting 10 years in advance is probably a right timeline to start to look at those building needs going forward and deciding what they are and how much. And and my suggestion would be when that's done the next time, cost analyze it before you go on the ballot rather than going on the ballot and cost analyzing it afterwards because the gap became large. It was tough to fill it. I
045I can sit and tell you that I'm not even that good, but I used really good bond counsel on the district's behalf. The guy's 40ome years of doing this that we were using, and he's a rever, John Larson. He's retired now, but I don't know if we left a stone unturned on the types of debt we could issue or types of funding we could create to finish that project, but it happened. We were pulling everything that we could do. Um, you know, literally we have a bank that is financed under a lease purchase the HVAC equipment at the high school. You think they're really coming in and pulling it out if I default on that payment on your behalf? We're not going to default obviously, but they're not coming in to pull that gear out
046of there and they know that, but we got that on relationship. It was Huntington who we use always with our money. So, we we cobbled it together and it's the right plan. That plan was the right plan in 2017 for River. I'll go to my grave on that. It wasn't enough money, but it was the right plan and we made it happen. And also, we didn't move the admin. You know, there were things like we renovated science rooms. >> Right. Right. >> We renovated the media center. We made decisions like that that needed to be made. >> But we have a really nice plant between our bus garage, bath, and high school. We have great great facilities, and we'll get there again. >> Rick, why you're on it? I'm sorry. >> No, cut me off.
047That's better. >> Yeah. No, and I don't want to put you on the spot, but I think it could be relevant. It will be relevant to our next discussion. Do you mind just as best you can um remember the decision about putting the wrestling mats wrestling room at the middle school gym in that second gym? Since you're talking about facilities, >> so originally the wrestling room was going to be part of the ox gym. That was the plan. If you go way back, they were going to raise enough money to build an ox gym and a wrestling room. Even before that, they were going to build a whole community fitness center. We started at 10 million, we got to eight, we got to five, we got to 25, and we generated 1.2. Thank you. Thank
048you. Thank you for $1.2 million. That's incredible. So, I'm not criticizing with that comment, but just like with the building, we had $1.2 million to work with. So, we went back and asked the stakeholders, what's most important, ox gym. More people benefit from it. What are we going to do with wrestling? We'll put them in the end. Wrestling didn't like that idea so much. They still wanted a room. There wasn't money for it. There weren't donors for it. It didn't happen. The discussions happened internally with the administrative group to use a portion of that second middle school gym. Obviously, basketball type people don't like that decision because they want as many gyms as they can get. They think that they would tell the story of having to walk to Richmond Elementary School like my dad
049used to talk about walking uphill to school both directions in the dead of winter. Somehow that hill ran up went uphill both ways. But um and I've had that conversation more than once and they don't end well when I have with >> our staff members. So um because I don't want to hear anybody complain about our facilities, frankly. I think we have great facilities and I'm not going to I'm not going to take that dialogue. You're going to get a little bit and then I'm done. So that happened recently at football game, but um it wasn't pleasant. >> But I'll leave names out of it for obvious reasons. >> Good idea. >> Um >> Thank you. So we put that in that end of the gym and it worked well. Mr. McKinnon was involved. Others
050I don't think everybody loved it necessarily, but it worked. It worked well. They liked it better than using a portion of the aux gym, but then freed up the aux gym for a gym. So then we started orchestra and we didn't have spaces for orchestra. Great problem to have, right? So we just solved that. The room is done. We took the stage, which it had became a a literal dumping ground. We cleaned the stage off this summer. And if I had taken pictures, I think Mike did, I didn't. When he took me over there, when I said, "Mike, I think we can make use that stage and we can run a wall where the curtain goes." And we Dan went over Dan, a bunch of us, you couldn't tell anything had ever been thrown away.
051It was horrible again. So, we got rid of the junk that recreated itself somehow. And we have a really really nice orchestra room. So they will not be using we were having to roll back wrestling mats every day to put orchestra chairs and music stands in and the acoustics. The only thing good was I don't know your daughter's in it. So please no offense but I've had kids and grandkids in music. They're not all that accomplished as sixth graders starting out right. So, I don't think the acoustics at that level. The acoustics aren't all that important, but the acoustics in that gym are bad. I think they're going to be much improved, not perfect on the stage, but at least we have walls surrounding. We have a walkway. They're right beside their They have fantastic
052storage instruments. They have the Wanger top shelf storage equipment in there. So, it's a really, really nice space. Mr. Bowman's ecstatic. It's going to be good. wrestling can leave their mats down. Is it perfect? No. Is that an opportunity down the road to include something like that? Um, you know, the problem was we priced it. I've priced that thing so many times. I priced it more than we did the high school. Um, you know, people think you can build a pole barn and do that. Well, you can't because there's these things called zoning regulations and building regulations through the county. We can't add additional square footage at the high school. We got an exemption to allow us to add the aux gym without adding additional restroom holes. They're not going unless they lose their memory,
053lose their notes, or get new people, they're not letting us add more square footage at high school without having that additional cost of adding bathroom spaces. So if somebody tells me they can build a 500,000 square foot or 5,000 square foot B four $500,000 they don't know all the other pieces and I've been told that more than once. So we bring out architects, we bring out construction managers, we get prices. It doesn't work as neatly as they want because they there's a lot of details that I probably don't even know, but I remember most of them. So, um, it's an opportunity for another day. That day is not here. U, I know the basketball people, maybe the volleyball people would love to have that gym back. U, but the Richfield gym was available every day
054and the response I get from that is it's not available till 4:00. Well, I used to coach basketball and I used to get the gym at 7 o'clock. So, my sympathy meter didn't go real high. And I lived in rural America, Appalachia. So this might be rural, but it's not Appalachia. So it it can work. We'll be okay. If it's four o'clock, >> kids can have a study table, go across the street, and it'll work well. That's a full court gym. That's a 94 foot floor. That's regulation. That's regulation pro. That's not I mean, you can do 84 ft for ice, but it's 94t floor. Still have the aux gym. We still have the main gym. >> Should tell them to talk to the swim team about our pool. Yeah, exactly. >> Thank you. Yes.
055>> I mean, in an ideal world, we'd have every facility that everybody wants, but >> part of that $10 million discussion was to have a pool. >> I'll just say at the beginning of the high school conversations, we had a pool. We were going to have a track for the community to you. I mean, we started big. >> Yep. >> We started big. >> We sure did. >> We have great facilities. I apologize to no one. So I guess >> I go to a lot of games around the area. We have great facilities. We have great facilities and most districts around have new buildings now. >> But so do we. >> So >> I'm not alone in starting here over a year ago like brought my family here just to see the facilities. It's just
056unbelievable. And the setting valley national park and everything. It's just beautiful. We're very fortunate. >> I would love to see the new orchestra space by the I have to make sure I get over there to see it. >> Um >> I I guess I just I want to ask the direct question in here. You feel comfortable that there is nothing hiding at the middle school or the elementary school that could crop up to have us have to sit down and consider whether we do that repair or fix versus build another building. Like you feel confident we have 10 to 20 years with those buildings. >> Well, we're going to do certain repairs that Right. But I don't think I mean there's nothing if a boiler blows this is recorded. Somebody's going to say I said
057well I don't you know we get the boilers checked every year and they're in great shape. >> Yeah. >> Um if something like that happens it's just an unforeseen and we'll figure it out. >> The fire alarm system is dated there. It's a million plus dollars to fix it to upgrade to the new technology. It works well. It gets certified every year. So, no one listening to this should think, "Oh my gosh, my kids in an unsafe building." Your child is not in an unsafe building. >> Which building? >> Middle school. >> And the middle school has that wall issue that we're monitoring. We bring structural engineers to check that because they know more than we do. They're saying, "Keep watching it." So, we do. It's not And it was repaired once, by the way.
058So 15 15 17 years ago I think Mike said >> which area is that of middle school >> down in I don't get me northeast I go on the straight road >> you're staring at the front right that's how I look at I don't I'll I'll defer to Mike to get us that but >> I didn't know if it was like a tall gym wall or >> No it's a basement wall okay >> no one's down there but equipment no >> you're talking about foundational >> foundational yes yes nothing in a student face at all. Um, no. So, yes, Jen, direct to your question, 10 I'm really comfortable with. I'm comfortable with 20 because of the studies that were done by the experts before with our 25-y year fix that we picked and said no
059to 50 because we didn't believe that was doable. But could something crop up? Yeah, like anything else, you know, your furnace dies and >> right >> figure out a way and we will and remember that number even though it's shrinking still pretty good. So >> yeah, >> I've worked places where you were lucky if that number was seven figures and then you were sweating those decisions out. But we're okay. >> We're okay. Yeah. >> Thank you. Okay. Appreciate it. Next item is Anybody else have any questions? Jeeoff, did you have anything before? >> The only thing I was going to ask about is historically when there is a significant change to our projections. Would we proactively communicate that to the community and let them know there's going to be this shift? >> So, I will
060I do this forecast twice a year. It's required by law. I mean, it's not like I'm creating butterfly. I do it twice a year. we have to, but I try to make it as real as I can and I try to explain what those variances are and why so that folks know. So, we do that at a public board meeting. We put it on the website. Uh I Sheldon writes his own thing. Chris Partis um participates a little bit more with my involvement to for his articles. Yeah. About it. Um yeah, we we absolutely try to communicate it if if there's more we want done. Um you know, when you're not in deficit spending and sitting on 20 million, the community is not paying attention quite as much honestly at that. >> When there's negative
061>> situations occurring like property tax reform, I'll spend time on that again. People will be sick of me talking. I know. But that's okay. Two of them told me the other night they appreciated me talking, explaining that. I'm like, "You must be sick that you appreciate listening to me." But they were kind. Um, so we'll do our best to talk about it and educate about it. I think the human nature of it in my long time doing this now is people pay attention when they hear the L word. >> When you when you start talking, people's ears perk up a little bit. right or wrong, it's just human nature. I mean, I you all know I don't I don't live in River, but I was at an insurance consortium meeting this week and treasur where
062I live started talking about possibility of a levy there. I had no idea even I live there. I I work in schools. I think I pay attention to schools where I live. I had no idea. So, but now I'm listening and paying attention to it because I heard the L word. So, >> but yeah, we'll do obviously as we get closer to that discussion, but I don't want anybody that's listening to this or reads about the board meeting to think, you know, bite says the sky is falling. We need a levy because that's not the truth. >> Yeah. >> We're going to keep moving ahead and I think I've learned a lot about property tax reform as I said Tuesday night. I think my numbers are really really good and I think they'll change um
063because everybody's learning about this darn thing. It's a monster and the impact of it. But as we get a year or two of it under our belt, we're going to have a lot better information. The plan moving forward and in the forecasting software we use, the history never goes away. I mean, I can tell you valuations back since before I got here because I went and recaptured it once I got here to build the software. So, um, we'll have a lot better handle as we move forward. But River is doing well on January 15, 2026. We're doing well. We just need to make the decisions as we move forward that keep us doing well. And it doesn't mean we don't spend money. It just means we analyze it in the scope of the the totality
064of what's happening. >> Enough of my lecture. Shut shut me off. President, turn me off. >> Anybody else? Um, yeah, I am really sorry to uh go off script here a little bit, but I'm being asked if all evening activities are cancelled >> as far as sports and things yet. >> Don Seeker said in text we're canceling all activities, practices, and everything are canceled tonight. Yes, >> ask Brenda to push something out. So, >> sure. Thank you. >> Okay, nobody has any other questions on that one. Let's move on to the next discussion item. Okay. >> So, I talked to Dr. Overberhouser and he gave me some numbers, just some notes for us to u to consider and he's happy to come to a work session based on questions and all those kinds of things.
065Um, so, but wanted you to know that he has been considering like additional physical education classes for our middle school students. >> Oh, okay. >> Yes. Got it. So there he gave you the student enrollment for this school year on the first set and then um students that could take physical education once for the school year and then offered back in 2425. So last year there were students who were offered two sections but he made a note there they did not have enough gym space to continue this. So the teacher talked to the union about class sizes and other things. So um made adjustments. One of the challenges and one of the reasons why I asked Rick to go back over like the history of the wrestling is for the wrestling mats have presented a
066challenge. It's not something that we can't necessarily overcome, but I know it's it it comes up that the wrestling mats are in that second gym. So but if we need that space, we can find ways to make those move. I've worked on five traditional K12 districts in including River in my 40 years. I've only worked in one where the middle school had two gyms. So places I'm not saying there are none now because as new schools are being built some of those designs are changing but school districts figure out one gym. >> I mean >> can you remind me what the PE requirements are at the middle school? If it's on here I can't find it. the >> are they required to take two quarters or they only take it once their entire three years
067there? >> There actually is no requirement for physical education at the middle school level if they're involved in others. So like if they take band or choir they're not required to take art gym like at other middle schools you like if you're in the music program that will be your elective and you may not get access to art gym or music. may reduce the number of electives you have. Um, we can look at that exact, but there's no credits at the middle school level. There's instructional minutes assigned for like English, science, social studies, math, but there's no credit. So, it's not a number of section. It's just the access to. >> Yeah. I think at the middle school, we talk about it as required electives. And I know my girls had to take PE. >>
068And that and that's a that's a >> right. So, what do we require is what I'm asking. What do we require of our students? >> I don't know off the top of my head. Find that out for you though >> because I think that would be kind of helpful. >> I don't think it's every year. My daughter took it last year. She's not taking it this year. >> It's not. So, I think it's once in >> I don't know for sure. That's my understanding as a parent, but I don't know. >> Haven't been thought it was once. >> Okay. Middle school. >> Yeah. I don't remember. >> It's been a while since >> I think it is once, but I couldn't remember if it was once or twice. They had to take it. Okay. And
069then health is different though. You have to take two years of health and we offer sixth and seventh and then there is an eighth grade option but it's not a required elective. >> Sorry. >> That's all right. That's all right. So >> is that is that >> there correct? And they're actually again at the middle school level there's not a requirement for health. You don't have to get it from a state >> standoint but we require for our students as they're signing up for classes. Okay. Can I ask I know the agenda and the discussion is around fizzed. Um I know a lot of the ask from from parents has just been how can we get them moving correctly and you hear you call it recess at home school right? I don't know if you
070but like outside of the box of fizzad >> like I see I see down here about offering things during lunch and things like that and there's other things. >> So are there other things outside of an actual phys class that we're looking at? Well, I think that's we're talking about like offering clearing up the rest for intramural time. Like that's what we had >> the main conversation with Dr. O has been around lunchtime then like as far as to your question specifically like outside of phys like we haven't talked about how to make them more active during a class like not during language arts or not during math or not during science. So, uh, but he has mentioned lunch and the attempt of when students are done eating to get them to a space where
071they can be active. And he's, uh, the challenge is this time of year, right? Like he he says it's fall, spring, when the weather's nice out, kids can get outside. He has no problem taking them out to, >> uh, he said part of the challenge is staffing, but here Mr. Py are willing to take groups of students out and watch them. So, it's this time of year where um it's not nice out to get students out at lunchtime is difficult. That's been the main crux of the conversation. >> We're children do it. We can do it at the middle school. Get the snowsuits out. You know, I know it's I know it's more difficult when they get older, but I just feel like there's been such an ask >> for it. >> Um >> I
072know it's tough. You know, time during the day is tough. >> Yeah. My concern with unstructured and not that it's not an option and we shouldn't try it, but my concern with like a more unstructured recess type physical movement time is that is the exact age where you have kids worried about how other people are watching them or how they look to other people. So you are probably going to have a subset of students who is ready to grab a ball and run across a field for 20 minutes. Great. you have another subset that is gonna huddle and go off to the side and not move >> which is kind of no different though than elementary kids. Yes. >> I mean you have kids who are playing and kids who want to sit and talk
073to their friends. I mean it's >> similar just different age group but >> yeah I think I would disagree. >> Yeah that's the beauty of the the lunch option is that the kids who want to leave for activity can go and the kids who aren't interested can stay behind. like it gives that flexibility but the space being the issue and then the activity and the staffing those those are the three top issues. Okay. >> Is it something they're looking at for the next school year or is it just in a general discussion at this point? >> He is looking at for next school year. That's been part of the conversation. I don't think he's not landed on anything. So, >> so I have had community members ask about more educ physical education options to fill
074schedules, which is a different >> ask. Okay. So, are we talking about both or are we talking about one or the other or everything's on the table? >> Yeah, according working with Dr. O, we're pretty maxed out at what we have. It would require additional space and staffing in order to add additional PE. So that just becomes part of our priorities as far as staffing and FTE is what we want to look to add. >> Oh, sorry. Go ahead. >> I'll just say has this been a conversation you guys were probably for years or is this just something that's I know things have changed over the years, right? In terms of scheduling and or has this been just a more recent ask? >> I've heard it at the listening and learning tours last year. I
075definitely had people talking about and just to your point how Richfield did back that they felt like did a great job of getting students outside, but at the middle school they felt like was like a hard stop to that and uh and they did pinpoint specifically the middle school they thought the high school they just weren't sure about the high school but I think like with our classes and others they try to get out on that rooftop if you will and other things so they feel like there's effort there to get them out. >> They were focused on getting them out more at the middle school. That was just last year. I just feel like when we talk about mental health and we talk about behavior problems these are problem behavior issues I feel like
076there's such a connection between the physical and all I don't know I just wonder if right I mean I don't >> I don't know I just wonder if we would see even >> an uplift or a change in that if we made just a little change I know it's hard it's hard it's tough trying to put everything in but >> do we know of other middle schools that are incorporating recess or daily physical activity. >> Cly Middle School just rein reinstituted it after winter break. The kids hate it. >> My daughter hates it. She hates every minute of it. They're forced to go outside whether no matter what the weather. Middle school kids don't wear coats. >> They don't wear they don't wear hats and they have to wear hat and then their hair is
077messed up and you know if you're an eighth grader and your hair gets messed up and then snow gets in your eyelashes and you fix your mascara. Like it's been a thing. It's been a thing in the Campbell household. So, um, they all >> they all have to go out. >> They every single one they have to go outside. They go outside as long as if it's 20 I believe the I believe what the thing was >> it's either 20 or 25 degrees they will go outside whether it's snowing they will go outside whether it's I 25 or temperatures 25 or greater they will go outside no matter what for 20 minutes. Um I'm not sure what the catalyst for that wasn't communicated to us. It was just we got the message like, "Hey, starting
078on Monday, make sure your kids have a coat cuz they're going outside for recess." I'm not sure. It was never communicated to us what the purpose was. Um, and the kids didn't seem to, Kelly didn't seem to know prior to coming home for winter break that that was going to be a thing when they came when they got back from winter break. So, um, it has not been an enjoyable part of her day. Um, it's kind of like they've split the lunch period. So, they have a 40-minute lunch period. So, uh, they do 20 minutes to eat and 20 minutes outside. So now they're like racing to eat as well because they used to have >> all right now 40 minute lunch period where they had like you know she's like I feel like I'm
079just like cramming my sandwich and then running outside and just sitting there and I'm miserable for 20 minutes. But my kids experience should not dictate every other kid especially when she's in a different district like you know it could be completely different here and perhaps with some structure. >> Yeah, >> it would be a different experience. Yeah, I had it in middle school. We had recess. Um it was at the end of every lunch just like that, but it was always there. So I feel like had it just like not existed and then all of a sudden in the middle of the school year like this. So I think that that's probably part of the misery is it's it was not an anticipated change or known entity >> prior to then. But >> I know
080ours was like ours was available but not required. So if you wanted to sit inside and talk to your friends or eat lunch longer or do your homework, that was fine if you want to go outside. So some days you went I mean I know for me some days I went outside, some days I didn't, you know, and I'm sure I was fair weather about it, not going to lie. But um I mean I do like that option for the kids that I mean if it's miserable, you hate to try to solve a problem by making kids more miserable. But there's a lot to consider for Dr. O to think about all of it around there. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I do see I'm sure you all have experience too if you've had kids go
081through middle school. There are times when they are outside. I know Mr. Williams with the drones. I've seen outside a number of times with the drones. I've seen >> the rockets >> the big rocket launch. Yes. The rocket launch. >> Some teachers just take them outside for a period. >> Right. But but I think the more the point of something like it's regular that students could count on and those kinds of things where it could make a difference as far as their healthiness and all those >> energy part of the conversation that we could >> have with Dr. >> Yeah, I think it might be useful to talk to him more about what that could look like. Just try to brainstorm some ways. I think at a minimum at at minimum try to offer the
082option on days that are x amount maybe don't have to have a coat and you won't endanger yourself kind of days you know 50 and above we will always have the option to go outside or at lunch after you're done eating. I don't know. I don't know how that would work. And with staffing, obviously I'm just kind of trying to brainstorm ideas. Or are there any electives in each grade that are like only have eight kids that sign up every year? And so then maybe we think about could we offer something that's a little bit more like physically involved as an elective, whether that be a physical activity or just something that requires more movement from the kids. Maybe not outside, but at least movement. I don't know. I agree. I think it's really important.
083Obviously, it's I just saw a study last week that talked about exercise creating better mental health outcomes than anti-depressants. So, I mean, I'm sure. Yeah. >> Um, >> well, I'm glad he's thinking I mean because obviously this is going to be Dr. O's decision. So, I'm glad that it's on his radar and he's thinking about it and I'm sure looking at it and talking to people because it's definitely something he's >> trying he's all for it. He would love to have students more active. I think >> he has indicated to me it's gotten to a spot where it's going to require >> more staffing in order to make it happen. And so, it's a bigger decision than just adding classes or things of that nature, right? We're using staffing differently >> now. But the question
084of current staff taking students outside on a regular basis. I know he's considered it, we've talked about it, but I don't know if he's landed anywhere yet. So, I could definitely ask him to come and share what he's found and discovered and what he's planning to do. >> Could bring mileage club to the middle school. >> Oh my gosh. I know. I think about that when I'm at Richfield volunteering for that. I'm like, I don't know how many kids would actually I don't think they're motivated by the feet charms. might be need a bigger ride for that, but >> they have that nice like loop on the indoor. >> That's true. Might be slightly disruptive to the classes they walk. >> But you could but you could take them out to the track, right? >>
085Yeah, you could. >> And they did they do do some track walking, right? When the weather's nice, they do do that, don't they? It's available to the kids. >> The PE classes in particular is if it's good weather, they do utilize the track as much as possible the out those spaces. So, >> yeah. feel. >> Yeah. >> I feel like during CO they really made an effort to get the kids outside. My kids were there during co I don't remember like what the structure was for that. >> I think part of the decision making process because it's going to be bigger than just equipment. There's not currently like a a recess field or like recess equipment. So like would they need a basketball court or something along those lines. So it may just you know
086those to to provide opportunities. So, it really truly could be bigger than just a a simple static conversation because there's not to my knowledge. There's not >> a space. >> And when you think about the building, the only space where we could even add something like that, you figure it' be on the far end, which is not even close to the mudroom. So, it would make that even more of a process. I mean, there's there's no adjacent space to the building >> by the cafeteria that would make it like, oh, we could just add something right here. I mean, they have that courtyard, but really doesn't offer space to like run around at all. But, >> right, >> we just get asked so often. So, I I just hope people know that it's on everyone's
087radar. Right. You sometimes I think like Mrs. Slaving came and talked to us and I don't want people to like they're getting >> Yeah. >> We're not thinking about things that they come and talk to us about because we talk about so much. I >> I'll say that this is something that I heard as I was campaigning. I heard this actually at after our first meeting on Tuesday. Four parents surrounded me and started talking to me about middle school PE. I got a message today about nutrition and and PE at the middle school from somebody I went to high school with. This is definitely something that I think we're going to continue to hear. So, I think it deserves some more robust conversation with Dr. O and potentially maybe a focus group of students and
088and people involved in athletics and mental health that can say, "Here's some things that would be effective. yoga in the morning or whatever the case is. But I think it's something that's going to continue to pop up and have people discuss want us to discuss it more robustly. >> That's a good point. Talking to the students, >> that's like feels like an obvious point, but I didn't cross >> the good cross-section of those students. Yeah, >> the girls worried about their hair and their eyelashes >> versus the boys want to throw a ball. >> And I agree, you know, really with Kasha. I think had there been better communication Yeah. >> with you know even me I just like Rick said he didn't know there was possibly a Lebanese community like I I I think
089I'd pay attention and I was like what do you mean there's going to be a recess coming starting out like just you know >> well it's an odd time too like dead of winter. >> It's like a funny time if it had rolled out better and had had a better you know not just an abrupt change there would have been a better time to prepare and she might have been more excited about it. Change is hard >> especially for middle school. >> Okay. Anything else on this topic for now? Do we want to invite Mr. Oberhouser to come in to or Dr. Oberouser, sorry? >> To come into >> He's already said he'd be happy to come in. >> Okay. Do we want that next work session or do we >> I mean he's already
090talking about it and thinking about it for next year and I'm kind of thinking we don't really have a great permanent solve for next year but can we do something next year. So let's see what like what can we get in that's at least something next year if possible and then how can we look forward for the future years to make sure we're planning and thinking ahead beyond next year and what that could look like >> and a roll out to your to your point about communication I think it's always important to talk about the why and talk to the students about it here's why we think this is important because the correlation between exercise mental health and nutrition are extremely important to you and your your well-being now and in the future. That might
091make them gravitate more towards doing some of these programs, things like that. But I think the roll out of communication to the students is really important. >> Okay. So, let's have them in in February at the work session. That would be great. Natalie, is that the one you're not are you not here for the work session or just the regular meeting? >> Session. Okay. I don't want to >> But you can provide any questions or feedbacks. You can have conversations with Dan and >> Dr. Hower and yeah, >> however, we can support your view and we're having that discussion do that. >> Okay. If there's nothing else, we can move on to the next agenda item. Um, we do have a need to go into executive session for discussions surrounding personnel and employment of public
092employees. So, I'd like to see if anybody can make a motion to second. Okay. Mrs. Stein. >> Yes. >> Mrs. Burke. >> Yes. >> Mr. Bowler. >> Yes. >> Mrs. Brackett. >> Yes. >> Mrs. Rain. >> Yes. >> Okay. We are in the executive. Pause. and be able to use it.