001clock 6:00 call to order >> Mr. Tyler >> here >> Jack Dawson >> here Elizabeth Johnson >> here all right stand for the pledge >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Okay, new business. First, we're going to discuss the ESC Education Service Center contract and services. >> So, in front of you is a spreadsheet of all the services that are through the ESC that are located in a thick packet. So, the packet contains the service we utilize and then it explains it a little bit more. So this spreadsheet is identical to the one that this Chismar has there. It's the same exact >> Yeah, we did that in January and
002those are estimates. So on this spreadsheet, I just want to go over a couple things for the board to understand. It's not that costs increase significantly. It's that we are utilizing way more services, which means the economies of scale. So, as an example, if you can go to the very first Oh, and also before I get started, if you see any redacted information, we had to make sure that we're protecting student identity. So, I I just went through, you know, so that you could you could see still see cost, but you can't figure out who it is. So, I did my best to to redact some student information if you see blackout. Okay. So, if you go to the very top row, if you look at the fiscal rate of preschool disability in 2024 versus
0032026, you can see it's like a $3 increase, which makes sense with inflation. It just rises. But notice noticed 2800 days, 2500 days, 2700 days. Back in 2020, if you have that trend data, it was like 400 days. >> Yeah. >> Meaning 600. me we had like six kids. >> So it's not that the costs have increased. It's that we have way more students who are disabled that we legally have to educate starting at age two child fine. Those students have to go to two. Yeah. You start to identify them from zero to two from from child and then there's early measures to get them into the preschool. So students that are disabled by law we have to get them in and provide services. So just that is a great example of why the cost
004didn't increase. We have way more kids. So working with our collaborative team since the beginning of the year, we had at 1 point3 resident students that are being identified on top of some of these students in here. Now that number had just because you identify them doesn't mean that they go in but that traditionally number is four or three. So, it's a trend all >> classifies them >> the whole team. So, the school psychologist Carmen um she's our ESC special coordinator. Um it's a team and basically the team gets together and they have a whole checklist. I don't have the checklist on me but there's multiple it's like an MFB multifactor evaluation and they go through. So out of that number of at one point in cabinet and I don't remember if anybody remembers the
005exact number in cabinet back in like November back it was like 13 I think 11 qualify. We were like because the data traditionally is under 3 to >> and that's the entire preschool that we have both AM and PM school currently we have 13 students that are identified and again I don't know I'd have to get back to you on where they are but I'm just giving that as example of the utilization because before you have that data in 2020 where the number wasn't that much. So that's the economies of scale when we look at the ESC cost. Okay. Um, so continuing with that, over the past 5 years, the average annual preschool unit cost has been approximately 2% while we have doubled the amount of students needing that service. This entire spreadsheet is all
006about utilization of services. Okay, continuing. Um, I gave an example there of widgets. If you buy widgets at $5, your total is 15. If the next year the widget price goes 2% then it's $510. But if you buy a 100 widgets now that price shot up to $510 simply because the amount of students utilizing that service. So to be conservative we um when Mario forecasts we always assume around 3 to 5% of increase because obviously people get about a 2% increase of salary every year. Okay. So that's what the ESC when we go through this. So starting at the top, I just went over preschool data. You can see the days of service. Why is it a little lower than 2025? Well, we started after Labor Day, right? So you got to factor that in
007as well. There there's a lot of factors that get into this. >> Is there a minimum number of days that preschoolers have to go? Is it or they're they're not like the rest of the >> they're on ESC and I think they're 178, but we've had an extremely a lot of snow days this year and we started a little later. >> So will they have to go back? I mean, will they have to make those? Preschool doesn't have to do that. >> Okay. >> K through 12. So then if I skip down to ED elementary, notice I highlighted it green. >> So we went from 96,000 to 50,000 this year simply because less students need that service. So some of these students we actually >> emotional. Yeah. Emotional. So when we look at students, maybe
008students have graduated, maybe students don't need that classroom and that that classroom is in Springfield. But again, it's all about student need. And we we are at a meeting today where they talk about the needs of kids though the population is decreasing, the needs of students, and you guys are in the school a lot are shooting up through the roof. In a lot of these were mandated by law to provide an education. We have to provide >> What do you mean the classrooms in in Springfield? We don't we don't educate those students here in our campus. >> Some we don't have teachers with an ED license. So some of these classifications you need certain lensure. >> Okay. >> There's certain seat count. So if you're in this classroom, it's called a unit. You could have
009only up to eight. You need a teacher and an assistant. We don't have a teacher with that license. Some students that are called cross categorical. We like Sarah Robinson for example, we hired her as a crosscat. But if a student ha so she can service some students but if they have a different diagnosis you've got to provide the services. >> So we are sending the kid to Springfield and we are paying for >> and we're paying for transportation to and from some students >> cost a lot. >> Okay >> because category one versus category six. >> So there are various categories. That's where if you ever hear me talk or go back in your mind when I've talked about low incident versus high incident, high incident students means like SLD, specific learning disability. There's a
010lot of students that are identified with SLD or OHI, other health impairment. Low incident are spamia or where there's very few the state of Ohio reverses you says that it takes a lot to educate these kids. So they actually give you money for categorical 6 versus categorical one. There's a different threshold. >> It it doesn't it doesn't fac It doesn't replace what it costs cuz it's usually way more to educate some of these kids. We have some students, >> you know, in wheelchairs, in walkers that are 20 that are 21 that are in this report, okay, that we have to legally educate. We can't do that here. So the ESC is a purchase service. >> Okay? So, it's almost like when you go through this list, imagine a person if not two people for each
011of these areas that South Range would want to hire if we would want to provide these services, >> right? You can even say like there's there's different schools in the area that that work with different kids. We have like there's a school manor that's another school that we send kids to >> for a different behavioral problem. >> Not behavioral, could be autism, it could be Yeah. >> any kind of developmental problem. >> Correct. Oh, okay. But we like we got people here that are certified. So, those kids are able to shift back to the school. So, there are different schools in the area that people aren't aware of. It will hit like take community our community county schools and work with the kids there. That way, you don't have to pay for this. >> the
012teacher, which is I'm sure very expensive. >> A lot of people don't know about it. >> Yeah. And also, thank you for bringing that up. So, a lot of the times you meet with the team. So, we have a student that is um at a developmentally disa disabled school and we have a teacher here who could meet that student's needs. But meeting with the IEP team because it's always a team decision. Any administrator can't come in and say like that. It doesn't work. It's a team. >> So, the parents like I've been at this school for a long time. They have like two nurses per kid and the cost is like X. we would need to hire those two and do all this just the fact that and so I say to Mario I'm like
013listen it's an IP team decision the family is comfortable there it's best for the kid let's just keep that kid here we pay for that as well >> Jack you question >> no sorry just clearing my throat >> so looking at that green box we had certain students in years past and we had less this year that's why the green we reduce that cost there but it was because less kids are using that service. >> Okay. I'm going down the two red areas here. So, I'm looking at OT and then SLP. We actually have an SLP and an OT. Next year, we're looking at requesting zero days and using our own people for that because if if you look in prior years, which I had to redact, you could see the thousands of dollars because
014there were more kids. We simply couldn't say >> more than that could be on the case load for Meline or Adrian. Okay. >> So now that we are able to do that, we're like, "Wow, let's look at the IEP minutes." >> Great. >> So, you know, potential and again, this is all potential because I could get a call tomorrow, a student moves in and they have speech needs and they have so that's what's difficult about this is the ESC is definitely there to service to say, "Hey, you have this need, we can take care of that." So potential, you know, around five grandish five grand if we were to use our own people. If you add up those two reds, >> okay, >> looking at speech therapy or excuse me, physical therapy, we do not
015have a PT, but again, these are students that are around the county that we legally have to provide PT. >> Moving down for visually impaired, orientational mobility, we we don't have obviously these are very far and few individuals that are trained and qualified around the state of Ohio. They charge about a minute because there's such a need for these education professionals. We don't have one. So most people go through this person through the county. >> Okay. >> Continuing down if you see school psychology. So we it's 2% increase and um we pay for 150 days. So when Ela Braancho was a longtime psychologist here that we pay her salary and benefits which was afterwards to 120,000. When she left we purchased this service for 79 grand. So instead of paying 120 120,000 we're paying 79,000
016for a cost savings and she's here 100 3 days a week and that could be 4 days next week it could go down to one day next week depending on because these are all up to >> and this is also dependent on the number of students correct I assuming all of this is going to be required based on student utilization but pretty good because teachers and the principles are wanting a lot more of their own systems because we instituted systems of learning here. The ESC came back to me and said uh reducing it to one day a week is not an option under this model. The teaching and learning is priced by ADM. 's average daily membership to ensure equitable coverage of departmental costs. If the district discontinues this service, we may contract for individual
017support at $600 per day plus any applicable meeting. Now, you also have to jump down to the yellow. So, if we get rid of the 49,000, then the yellow is going to jump up to around 13 to 14,000 because that's also packaged in. and we get a reduced rate of career counselors. Remember Mr. Zolick explained all this stuff over the last couple meetings and we will be a five-star school. Literally, we've had a lot of support and help the drones, the building trades, um the the U signs from career counselors, which by the way, I was at a legislative meeting two two weeks ago. They are there's an early bill to mandate every school have career counselors because that's a big push in the government. They think it's going to wait till the new governor
018like if Vic or Dr. A can get in. They think both parties want this. So it's not law now but we're covered anyways because we've been using Doug and Gina um Saxton. So very good cost but I have a plan for that cost. So this going going back to that curriculum and staff development >> um this reducing the teaching and learning to one day per week is that their requirement or is that the state requirement? >> We can't do that. It was their requirement. >> Their requirement. So is that a negotiation tool? That's the question. >> We can't negotiate. >> There's no negotiation with them. >> I attempted. >> Okay. >> Um so and we do get a lot like we get a lot of support with that. Again, moving down to this career counselors.
019Um, you can kind of see I just read that. Now if you look at that old team and again this is this is nothing against the personnel nothing against but when I met with the team I always talks about strengths and weaknesses hey what are the strengths of the services what are some things that we need and don't need and it's not that we don't have that need But with the 14,000, we paid 11,000 the social workers. The career counseling is a greater need because of the high school transformation going on. So the team said that's something we can maybe pause and and take a TV time out this year. We can kind of see if we need that for the next year, but that's why it's red. So I'm looking to remove that um
020social work service. She came in, they came in like once a month to provide the service. Um, a couple more, a couple less. It depended on the week. Like they did help us with h house bill 123. Um, start with hello. Like they did help us with mandates, but we our our people are comfortable that they can do that. Our counselors really are comfortable that they can do that. And we created an eye care team for the system to meet students needs, which is what a social worker kind of does. So that's why that's pink. I'm looking to reduce that cost and move that up to the career counselor. BCBA stands for a board certified behavior analyst. They are a dime a dozen. There is, if you go back to the original conversation, there was
021an increase of student behaviors. It's everywhere. Special education. Um, and there are very few BCBAs. So, two years ago, the ESC did not have Yeah, you could see last year they didn't have blank. >> But because so many schools were asking, we actually one of our staff members wives does this. And I was like, "Oh my gosh, how what is your salary?" and she told me what it was and I was like, "Woo!" So, when I saw this cost, I was like, "Uh, we'll sign up for 45 days." >> So, this is an added service, >> correct? But, and it's for students that have severe needs. >> Legally, the team comes in and you have to do a BIP, behavior intervention plan. You have to do a functional behavior assessment. And the person doesn't have
022to be a BCBA, but the BCA BCBA works with the IEP team, the student, and the family to work with student behaviors. Um, so if a lawsuit or something ever goes south with a student with disability, maybe your BCDA is like topnotch and you provide the implementation of the recommendations from them instead of like someone who's not trained in behavior like an intervention specialist or a teacher. So looking at this cost because our IEP team has been working with students, we're looking to reduce that from 30 days to about 15 or excuse me, from 45 days to about 30 days. So that could be a cost savings of of around 15K. So all in all, when I met with the ESC in January, a team of us met with the ESC and then we met
023several times with ACM, the principles. I mean, we have we're very collaborative. Um we're we're making an effort. We're chipping away. We're seeing what utilization, what students needs are. Hey, we might not have a need this year for that. Hey, we're doing this. And you can see potentially around 36 to to 40k potentially that we could maybe have a cost savings. Um, again, that's if no needs were to arise. >> So, couple questions. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Going back up to the preschool. So we have A.M. and PM. And do we have kids as young as 2 years old in there or No, >> I it's three. You have to identify starting at age two. >> I can get you. I don't know the exact ages. >> So we have three and four year olds
024in the same classroom. >> Is it the same curriculum? >> Yes. And I I don't know the exact ages. It could be three or five. I don't I don't know the exact ages. Sometimes some students You go ahead. I just know cuz my neighbors kids go there and the it's the same curriculum for the younger one and the older one. >> It's not like it's not a preschool prek. >> It's it's one curriculum. >> Very um playbased, very social emotional at the at that level. The standards are more social emotional um play-based um more of your ready for school type of standards that they follow. And they're a fivestar preschool. >> I can read your face. I know. I was surprised when I found out that the my neighbor, the younger one and the older
025one was getting the same curriculum. I was surprised. So, how is that helping the old older kids though? I'm just wondering if they're getting the same curriculum. >> At that level, it's not addition, then subtraction, then multiplication, then division. At that level, you're taking students that are identified with non-disabled peers and it's more about socialization of students that have disabilities to get them ready for kindergarten. The whole point is to get them ready to school >> socially. There are academic standards, but it's not what you think. It's it's it's can they scribble? can that's that they're understanding words are objects letters or symbols I don't have the standards in front of me but they're not what you're thinking of grade one standards versus grade two that's why around that age they have usually hop skip
026jump you're are you listening to the rules um they're very social emotional based which is why you can have various types of kids in because students that are disabled you You want to put them with non-disabled peers for that peer effect. And that's how many schools it's it's actually illegal in Ohio to have it if you're just a student with disability preschool. >> Right. >> I was surprised too. I would love like cuz I I didn't know that. And I know I caught one of the preschool teachers in passing and I was just surprised like I was like, "Oh, I thought like the morning was the one group and the afternoon was like I wasn't >> like older and younger." Yeah, because I don't know those standards. I don't understand the preschool standards. Like, I've
027never looked at them to be honest. So, are we by having a preschool here, are we doing the kids coming into kindergarten a disservice because they're not they're not to the kindergarten standards that we have? >> You you have no because you can look at our K R1, R2, R3 data, and we're five star at the early literacy piece. You really it's not about comprehension like at that grade. You do not want kids reading. It's it's not pick up a book and reading. It's not how many site words. It's not the brains doesn't operate at that at that way at that level. So it is more of getting them ready for that that structure. There are standards. It's very playbased. It's very handbased. If we go in there, they have toys everywhere. Um, can they
028follow along? Fluency, do they left to right? Print readiness standards, numeracy readiness standards, um, you know, playing in sand for formations of letters, like that's what we're talking about, which are very similar to K standards. And then the K builds on it like that. So, it's it so I would answer yes if you look at our early literacy data. Um, but I wouldn't I'd have to give that actual number back to you. >> Okay. And another question. So, we have Mrs. Mayor who retired this year as our guidance counselor and we no longer have Ela Bacio as our school psychologist. So, when I was looking and reading, so what if we would look into hiring a full-time psychologist/guidance counselor because reading this is basic the difference is the guidance counselor does the curriculum. Well, in
029K through 4, they really don't need the curriculum. That's why we have the curriculum coordinator. Can we look into doing that and getting the psychologist off of this and hiring a full-time psychologist for slashguidance counselor? >> So, you would they're two different license. So, it's no longer a guidance counselor, it's a school counselor. And number two, school psychologists are completely different. Now, Elaine, I think, had a dual certification. I think she started out that way. Um, you would basic I want you to consider it as they would then be part-time elementary part-time school psychologists. Um, so essentially you would be almost in the same boat we're in now. >> Full-time benefits. >> Correct. With full time. That's why >> So essentially we're saying do our own instead of contracting it out with this. >> Correct.
030>> Yeah. I thought we just said you were we went from 120,000 down to 79,000 by eliminating benefits. Correct. >> Well, Elaine was with us for >> my gosh almost 15 years and that's where she got up to that. But I'm saying if we >> go because the average Let me see what I found out. >> Yeah. So, I guess that's that's the trade-off though. But if you could if you could sub out the guidance counselor as well, there might be a net benefit there, but it's too >> basically hiring a psychologist to >> Can you double duty? >> Yeah. It's from looking at what the um house bill and the regulations were. It said I believe we can >> almost essentially not placing the guidance counselor though that person would be able to fulfill
031that job. >> I'm I'm following I guess the question is >> that >> it's two different that's it's two different worlds >> and it's two different >> you would almost need to tell like Elaine and I talked Elaine about this. I said, "How did you do both?" And she was like, "It was tough. 3 days a week I didn't." So, a psychologist is coming in with standard, very medical. I want you to think of when you go to a doctor and you complete self assessments and so forth. That is a school psychologist. Very medical um more medically aligned than school counselor. >> How much time are we using the school psychologist? >> Up to 150 days. So, it's like 3 days a week. >> And she's good right now. Like that's a good number. >>
032Okay. >> Right now, we don't have the need to go up or down. So, I was going to keep it next year at the same time. >> Um, school counselor is your social emotional, your scheduling. It It's a completely different job. So, you would think of it as three days a week we're paying her, she's going to do districtwide school psychologist stuff. And then two days a week, hey, Steve, you have a school counselor. It's two different. >> Does the school counselor work full-time? Is this your full time? >> She's part time. So, current. >> How much is part time? >> Uh, two, three days a week. Depend. Yeah, I think she puts on. >> Okay. >> And what was her rate? Do you remember? >> Uh top. >> And she got benefits though. Correct.
033>> Correct. >> But with the needs of students >> increasing we and us not having social workers, Steve and I are having conversations of looking at a full-time elementary counselor. We are we're in early conversations for that. >> Cindy's leaving. Um, >> so you want to up that service >> for just a counselor. Again, we haven't solidified that. We are in early conversations of that >> to because Cindy's like retiring. >> Yeah. >> Um, and I mean, just being over there as much as I'm over there. >> I mean, it it's not the same as operation of 10 years ago. you know, these kids, the needs of change, the house bill, the mandates, the start with hello, like some of the things, you know, Cindy organized the 40 different volunteers. We have all those volunteers
034coming in to work with students. Um there's just a lot RTI, um the the MTSS process, which is new. That's so there's just a lot going on that I don't even know if a halftime counselor seeing the needs of the kids and then hearing meeting with teachers and kind of hearing well we have this student we have that student we have this student well they're playing a 10erson game of five people and often times it's steep or the teachers themselves. So without having that social worker cost, we were like, "Wow, we could probably find someone that could do house bill this, this, this, this, this, meet more students needs, hitting more and then paying full time." So increase, but we're early, again, I I kind of put that out there and I think he was
035trying to look at some of his data. >> So BSE is charging us 79,000 >> for school psychologist. Yeah. And from when I got online and was looking at the different stuff for um through the board of education, it did say the school psychologist can perform of of a school counselor, which I understand we're going to do a full sun counselor now. >> But um you they said around in this area it's anywhere from 64,000 to 97,000 and just last year the ESC listed a school site colleges for 53,000. Mhm. >> So, we're getting charged an extra 20,000, >> but that's without her benefits. >> Without her benefits. >> So, with the 150 days, that's what we're being charged. That's it. We're not paying. So, that 60 whatever the number you just read, add another
03630 to that for the benefits. Like, we're we're only paying that 75K total. We're not paying any benefits, >> but that's only for 160 days. We can 150 days. >> How many days are we in class? uh next year 171. >> So Terry's looking at this going, "Okay, if we can hire a school psychologist for even bump this up a couple years, $60,000 plus 20 $80,000 and we have them here for 180 days. >> $1,000 is a good >> I mean it's you're just switching you're just switching that number from the $79,000 from the ESC contract to our administration. However, if you consider the benefit of having that teacher actually be a a member of South Range and the benefits of having that in house, I think that's >> like how we started out. >>
037Mhm. >> Just just a thought, >> but then you're on the hook. You getting off >> and it's very difficult. I I mean I talk to Elaine. It is very challenging to balance day one, day two, districtwide. You're going to evaluation meetings, IEP meetings, you're going and then day three, day four, you're going to counsel. I'm not saying it's not Google. >> No, I'm not even saying that. >> Just if we just hired that person in house, wouldn't there be a benefit to us having that person in house? It wouldn't cost us any more and we would have that person in house. >> It would cost us more. >> It's just it's a Friday. >> Okay. So the the difference you just cited is a Friday a week, right? >> You're paying them for the
038Friday they're going to be here instead of Friday they're not here. It's the same dollar amount. It's just whether you're getting them on the Friday or not. Right. >> Right. >> So it's $30,000 difference. Just make the math simple. Five days out of a week goes down to four. Four times 10. Forget the other two months. It's 40 days. Right. >> Right. That's your that's your difference. So the question is do those 40 days result in a substantial change for the kids >> with the dollar amount difference? for school I don't know the I don't know the answer >> for school psychologist and here's the other part nobody's considering is that this number could go down should should the career so so but if you hire a full-time psychologist now you're on the hook for
039>> that amount absolutely yeah >> increasing increasing benefits that we don't know how how high health care cost is going to go the the health care or the the salary increases so so you have full control for for no additional cost um where you can just say thanks but no thanks ESC we're good we don't need this many days we can cut this back to 120 take the savings and not be on the hook for the the the fulltimer uh uh as a south range I understand the the the premise of you know having them there as a full-time raider or whatever but um I I just think that it makes more sense to pick and choose this like as you need it not >> so Tyler so we are allowed to decrease. >> That's
040what I was just going to ask. So, if we decide next year, okay, we didn't need this guy for 150 days. We only got charged for 120 days. That's that's a possibility. >> Yeah. But if you hire full time, it's not >> Yeah. Then you're then you're paying that salary. So, they send us a bill at the end of the month. Is that how you pay that? >> Um well, they send us de reports that show the trend of what our expenses are. But we do which will be on the next week's meeting is at the end of the year we do recap. So a board board approved in contract amount deducted from our foundation. So we don't cut on a check. We have a projected services of what we expect that we're going to
041owe >> kind of like the taxes >> and then at the at the year we get recap. Did you meet because >> so either pay them or we get back >> then. So the main adjustment is well we had so many preschool kids but then they moved down. So or we >> that is a huge benefit if that is the case with all of these services that if we don't use them we don't have to pay for them. That's a huge benefit. >> The only one we can't negotiate was that teaching and learning because I I asked. >> So that's almost like a membership fee. >> Correct. >> But it's a membership. It's fine. >> I was just going to say, but the other benefit to keep in mind is it's kind of what Tyler
042was hinting at, at least for me as well, like the rate of benefit cost increase usually is going to accelerate much faster than than the wage that you're going to be dealing with. So you're right, like you hook them, we own them, their benefits increase at a faster rate year over year over year. Our costs are increasing faster than just something out like this right now. You see what I'm getting? >> Other tertiary costs, but that for example, professional development, >> there's a lot of compliance and a lot of PE that >> we're not sending for that 49K that's all inclusive. Um, we're not sending for their registration for this, for that. And there's a there's a ton there's a ton. PSC is handling all of that education for this. >> Same thing with preschool.
043All the snacks, staples, paper, like all that. Now, there's I let them on our p our copier cuz it's like, you know, I'm not going to ask you to bring a cop. It's more of a headache for dean actually. So, little things like that. I'm just like, no problem. No worries. But yeah, we're not or and the other aspect is with preschool specifically, you have very um involved parents and if there's any discipline issue with a staff member or a parent, the ESC handles all of that. We do not have a supervisor over that. They do. So there's a whole other factor to supervision. That is legally you have to have >> Yeah. Who's the administrator of the >> Stacy at the ESC? >> And she's at the ESC. >> And she calls me up,
044for example, a couple years ago, there was a situation. She called me up. She said, "This is how I'm handling D. >> Where is her salary on here?" >> That's She's not We don't purchase that service. That's through the ESC. probably >> one thing nobody touched on here was the I know you mentioned you try to negotiate but >> we're not getting a different rate than any other of the other local districts utilizing the county ESC we are >> we are at the current rate so just >> it's not tailored to South Ranch not taking us to the cleaners we're we're just >> we're literally just purchasing the service at that rate and it's not negotiated district to district. just for anybody who might watch this and so they understand that it's it's a flat
045fee and it's no different if you go to Canfield or if you Poland whatever they use it that's the rate and and they and again their model is different than the Trumble Colana Stark Summit they have a different model which is how they run their business which is great um they do have different models based on number of kids in district because we're here we have that set rate at this number schools that are at this number might have that because you know so it's their business model. So when we when I had conversations this year um I was like hey is there any way and it you know with all due respect doctors that's not our model we hear what you're saying that that's not how we operate to your point that's how we
046do business and again I I guess I didn't realize that because I was like well listen cross >> we're friends aren't we allowed to look at different ESC even though we're in my own county >> so Ohio allows us to do whoever um I can absolutely do that over the next months and maybe report out on services and and what the cost could be, utilization of service could be. I got to quit saying cost because it's kids using the service. Um, but yeah, we would be the only one in the county like to to look to going everywhere else, but I can absolutely I >> just to get an idea what the other counties are >> and compare. >> So, this $25,000 up here, this first line says preschool disability. That's the admin that the
047administrator's fees lumped into that cuz I was going to ask for $25,000 under >> my understanding is all the cost of going to bring a preschool or factor into that daily cost. So that's everything. Okay. >> So it's 7958 per day factor like all that. >> When I asked about that before they said you know take with the patient take two to 3% every year and then that's everything your supervisors your pencils your food your snacks your toys all of that for like for us I think it was $71 for us to educate a South Range kid a day. I think that's what the number was last year. I think I reported it to the board. So for them to do their business, it's 79. >> Was is there an option for us to run
048the preschool inhouse? >> I think we looked at that last year. >> So I did a cost analysis of that last year and you know it's 200,000. You see for us to do the same service it was 308,000 and that was off of like if it was a single with single insurance with meeting the mandates because Yeah. Busing. So the three it would cost us approximately hundred and whatever thousand more. Um as well as we would own that liability because they they take all the liability if something were to go on because preschool rules are different than K12 rules. >> So there's a lot of compliance piece, a lot of stuff through EMIS, which is how data gets uploaded in Ohio that they they take care of all of that. They do work with our
049K teachers to look at curriculum and so forth. But yeah, I did look at that analysis and it was reassuring to hear that the former administrators here did an analysis of it as well. I didn't know until I was done and they were like, "We came up with numbers close to you." I was like, "Oh my gosh." Because uh again with numbers coming up with insurance and with, you know, >> starting salaries. >> Terry, you asked that last year. >> Yeah. And I reached out to Bethany and Dennis and they told me to stay. >> I appreciate you guys allowing me to go through this. I know I did too much talking but that's what that was for me an idea of I mean cuz this is a half a million dollars >> and if
050I ask this question and I don't I'm just saying what happens if we all say no >> everything you see on there is we have >> I realize we have to have all this >> I'm call >> right I realize we have to have all of this so if if we just said nope forget ESC, we're not paying for all this. You would have to, and this is a question, not it's going to come out as a statement. You would have to literally go and find this service elsewhere. Or is ESC the only game in town to get this service? >> There's other ESC's. I do not know if they offer some of those services. I would be really nervous because now we're violating IEPs and that's a federal that's discrimination laws. Um, I would
051call our attorney and say, "Help. What do I do?" >> Mhm. >> Because now I'm really nervous for a lot of families who you're literally it's not like you you can start up tomorrow. And the only reason I ask is because we we get this and um I know a couple of us are sticker shocked by it and it's been that way for a couple of years now, but it's you're giving this to us and I appreciate all the work you've done with it, but it's this or what or nothing. >> We don't there's no So there's no choice here. >> No. >> Yeah. That that's >> the other option. I said go to the or higher set there is another option and it cost more expensive. >> Yes. >> And you explored that. So
052that's the answer is yes we the other option is we can do it on our own but it would probably cost us >> and the other thing is too is factor in factor in the kids right? So you you look at the the the students whose names are redacted on this sheet, right? >> Uh if if the families and the children are are happy with the services they're getting and the the least the last thing you want to do is >> disrupt that service >> over the go flipping the table over just >> to you know for the students sake you know what I mean right? If you take something familiar and you know they're doing well and you change it, you're looking at a whole lot of the most vulnerable or most vulnerable students
053and residents are on this sheet. >> And the last thing I think any one of us wants to do is to >> put those kids in a situation >> the best cost you're going to see a district our size no matter what size it is is educational services. >> That's why county trouble. >> Yeah. Is it >> the other ones are probably too far away? >> Something you could do to go just check with Columbia and just see if they're >> again, you're changing everything. You'd be changing every every administrator that or every teacher, every psychologist, every audio person, every everybody is on this sheet. You'd be changing it. So, I think >> what if it changes it by $100,000? >> Well, we have to look at that. But what I'm what I'm saying though
054is that >> that also has to be a consideration. We have we have to and knowing that they might be able to sell you something without getting the full picture, right? The Mahoney County EST has been here forever. So you you they know exactly what cost the the pre-sold. There's no there's no hidden cost. It's like going in and getting a an estimate for an estavation of project where somebody who's done that before and knows that ground is knows exactly what they're getting. Whereas if you go outside and try to, you know, somebody, oh yeah, I could do it cheaper. Well, until you get in there and until you find out what exactly is entailed, then the price might slowly creep up, creep up, creep up. And I just get very weary about going through
055and and changing the the people that are so sensitive, these kids, if if it's a requirement, we're already saving money. I I I I do think we need to make possibly look in, make a call to Columbia County, see if they even offer >> these services. That's that's all I'm asking. It's just a >> but there is >> is there a comparison? >> There is a benefit though from looking >> is the non-negotiation just because it's purchase our service because we know you can you would have to do it for more or is it because >> teaching learning piece of it negotiation >> or because we truly can't negotiate with them. If you come to the table and say hey I can get the service from Xcount ESC for X dollars less and it's still
056cheaper. >> It's a that does that then does then that change the negotiation table for the same people >> to stay with the kids at a potentially less lower rate you see what I mean so the information is useful potentially it could be >> so I could I can't speak to their >> I I don't know yet but I do know many districts for example Marlington is in Stark County they're over by Lions Marlington purchases >> our ESC's career compross >> so they're don One look at Columbia. He has technology from Colombiana. He has teaching and learning from over here. So there are schools usually they purchase many many more services when you look at total ESC. So I do know that I do know I can look around. So for example pre if we're
057happy with the majority but we wanted to look at I'm just making up aology. I'm making up something. >> Right. What's it look like and sound like? They might say we don't have that. >> Right. You know what I mean? >> But yeah, I could I could go through that. Um but and and I can over the next couple of months kind of report out to the board like, hey, I looked at I think as I'm processing this, I would almost take this entire contract and say, hey, you know, what's it look like whole scale? Okay, now what's just this look like? What's just this look like? >> And I realize that's work. I I do. I realize that that's work and it's writing it on. But I think it's it's I think it would
058be interesting and I think it does give us a a little chip to throw on the table for the Mahoney County ESC when it comes to talk. Let them know we're talking. >> It's just there's it's not just always value in dollars, right? It's it's value in and what is what the kids are getting out of it, >> but there is a utility that we don't know about for a negotiation to maybe keep the same value for the kids and change the dollar value. Right? So I I think it's a useful thing to explore in my opinion. Doesn't mean we have to do it. >> No, we don't have to do it. Some of the services, it's $53 a day on some of the services. >> I haven't been doing a good job on questioning
059the past few years. Like we've already questioned the preschool and the cost. You know, we moved kids from Manor back in the district and people don't know about this stuff, but we have been working with this contract. So I think I mean we have been doing a good job of analyzing this every year. >> I I think too doing our diligence by saying questioning every year questioning them explanation >> just to make sure I'm following you Jared. So just by the the work you did already and looking at the changes you propose within this current structure. You said if some of these reds hit, we're looking between you said 34 to 40 >> something like that. Yeah. right around >> just by making adjustments within the current ESC what we have >> subtle adjustments and
060we're chipping away that's on top of what Liz talked about from last year where we brought overund some thousand back into the district. >> Yeah. No, thank you for doing that. >> We're working on it. No, I appreciate the calling that. >> All right. Any other questions on the EOC contract? >> No. >> All right. >> You did not spend too much time on that. some. >> Okay, that was >> so the next thing is going over the standard form. So, the form we used last year for the evaluations was with the OS Ohio School Board Association. Um, and then there was one that was with our policy manual that I'll be honest if we are not following the Department of Education I will not be for it that no it has to follow the
061standards. Yes. So definitely we will use the Department of Education's evaluation. Is there anything we want to add or >> well then specify? Do we or do we not need to >> this? >> You would have to match every single one of those up to the stand. As a teacher, I'm like, "Oh, no, no, no." >> Okay, but this one's in our policy and we adopted it. So, we >> if you read the policy, it says we can use any any evaluation we do. >> We see fit. It says that >> in the forms there are teacher evaluation, principal evaluation. There are generic forms that's from 2007. >> Yes. I know. >> State of Ohio. Um so the state of Ohio adopted state superintendent, teacher, and principal standards that are from the board of education
062themselves in which professionals, board members, and superintendents sat down and said for each of these areas, here is the standard evaluation tool. And that's the one that OSDA and BASA I learned that BASA is in the middle of updating it currently like right now. So for now, yeah, I didn't know that. I was holding um so here the board shall at the onset of each evaluation determine the method by which the evaluation should be conducted and the evaluation model should be used. I'm looking at >> so like around the state superintendent valuations aren't based on local performance alone or preference alone but rather than a statewide expectation that go back to my superintendent standards as well as Ohio education standards they all align so the vision continues to improve in all of those areas >>
063well should we change it though then should we should we change our policy and adopt the new evaluation form >> because they're updating it they're updating a new They're currently updating. But again, those forms, Laura, we have forms for a lot of things that we don't they're just there if you want to use them. You don't have to use like the teacher evaluation form is that >> Oh, god. >> But for teachers, >> yeah, it's it's old school like think 1998. Like it's the older >> So that one, you know, >> you don't have to adopt any form that we use. It's to our preference year. >> Yeah. >> I'm just saying if we aren't holding myself as an educator to the state standards just in any field you have the top standards like >>
064no I do so like even his goals his goals should reflect the standards so we'll be using the OSA evaluation for standards um worksheet but is there anything that we would like to add or kind of put or take away or >> not add but I mean take away but add it >> just to adjust the form a little bit. We could still use the same form, but would we want to add something or >> I didn't think we were going over like >> we're not we're not we're not doing the evaluation just the form itself >> just the rubric. This is >> the rubric has all the standards. >> Okay. Yeah. What more would you do? >> I mean, as long as you're hitting the standard. >> So, if I may suggest, >> the
065standards are there. And when we do this with teachers and principles, if there is some if there's an area that I have for a teacher or I have for a principal, we sit down and I'm like, hey, where do you think you're doing really really well? And usually go over, hey, what is what is an area that you think you can improve or what's something that maybe is districtwide that you're not doing? And then it's a usually a mutually created goal. So the goals then align with standards and the goals are things that we can mutually say like we want to see Jared on the roof more or whatever or down in the well >> digging. >> So that would be a goal then that aligns with our safety and resources goal person which is
066in the one of the standards. >> Yes. So I think if I may offer just because I've done way more evaluations than you guys um I think you're saying the same thing and it would be this st we don't change the standards but it would be a mutually agreed upon goal that you would say hey what are your thoughts Jared on this and I'd say you guys know me like let's get after it you know so like I'll create a goal with that and systematize I'm big into systems so we >> it's already done so everything >> everything that you any convers ations, objectives that we want to see, things, ongoing programs, projects, whatever you're into at that point in time. we would have to we then tie that into one of the the evaluated
067evaluation rubric categories and add it in there as a specific goal or >> correct >> and and there so so really I would not I am not in favor of vote uh of changing the form itself but uh I think there's already been a good job of how these specific goal it says specific work objectives and strategies to meet goal and then it lists you know, a specific link back to the rubric. And I think that's the most customizable way to without changing the form itself and to to tailor it towards South Range and you know what's going on currently. So I I don't think there's any really need to >> No, the state does it for us. I I didn't see anywhere on here where there was like um when when I think of
068an evaluation, I think of like even a grading scale like one to five. One being the bare minimum. >> Yeah, that is it's >> this is this is the actual one that you guys created last. No, we didn't create this. They created >> you filled in these blanks. >> We used when you go for into your evaluation, you like for myself, it was myself and the principal and we would come up with mutual goals that has to fit this. Then at the end of the year, they come in and you go over your evaluation and that it's like satisfactory or you would tweak stuff. >> And where did we where does it on this actual evaluation? where does it say and you basically recommendations. >> So then it's like hey you know we really recommend
069you continue to do X Y and Z accommodation we have or like hey Liz differentiation so hey next year I really want you to hone in on differentiation because that was here in your evaluation and Liz is like great that's accommodation so that's something I want you to work on and we would draft that in there. >> Yeah. or I want your learning standards up. >> So, so in any evaluation, the goal of standardization is to create a minimum or base. >> So, when we do this all the time for our residents, right? >> The goal is to create a a capture survey evaluation function to create a standard process throughout every resident throughout the country, right? But then within that evaluation does allow us to customize it in a secondary category for that specific
070person to evaluate. Hey this is a specific concern. It was you know you are hitting the base standard everywhere but you are lower on this category than here. What's going on? How can we tailor it? So, I do agree with Liz like I I I would not divert off of any type of standard protocol that is governed by the state or anything like that because it is >> you don't you can run that up against any superintendent >> and then it allows us to then have a little bit of tapered effect with Jared afterwards >> once we go through it and you can customize >> and legally correct. It creates a buffer to make sure if anybody anybody else walks through the door that we evaluate, it's the same. It creates an unbiased initial screening.
071>> And that's that's how it's done for most most professional evaluations to have have some initial standardized screening. Now, whether we divert further off of that is going to get pretty individualistic. And I'm just saying for me, I would not alter this a whole lot if this is the statement. So we would keep these same district goals that have already been created by the boards. I don't know how many times you guys have done this, but the high expectations, the communication, collaboration, student performance, all the things that we as board members feel are important for the success of the school. So we would keep those district goals essentially the same. And then >> and just just kind of customize them a little bit more. We we could evaluate what sub subsidiary or secondary secondary categories
072you wanted to create after that if you want to get specific but I I would not alter >> the the initial screening needs to hit the same standard across the board you know and honestly most schools in my opinion should do that like that's the whole point of standardized testing and everything else is just to create a base >> baseline >> whenever you do this you as the professional like your goals change like okay I've learned So you can change. So this is I'm assuming Terry and I will go in and sit down and do the goals and have a conversation >> and then typically it's hey what support do you need? You know this communication's load. What support do you need? Our job is to support the educator to move forward. You know that's
073within the whole system of evaluation in general. That's what we do. You know it's like okay here's what we're going to do. What's the game plan? What support do you need? And you move forward. like Liz, you need PE, you need any conferences, you need me to come in and teach with you. Some examples. So like that's an an example of how the principal is a teacher teacher with the student with individual goals and then the board with the superintendent. So and again Ohio is revising it. He told me a few months. Yeah. Tom Perkins he said in a few months he was on finishing touches on for the entire state. I I did not know that until I called. So, I don't know when it's out, but >> I'm we have to um with
074the policy we have to do it by the end of March, March 31st. So, and I get together. >> So, you two will be doing the >> No, we'll be setting up the goals and like we'll have the conversation >> for the evaluation which is due by March 31st and then it gives me time to give this year's >> um evidence that I have to support. Yeah, you have to come with evidence too that proves that you those >> what we had talked about before previous meeting is that there's >> this is kind >> by adopting that policy like this holds >> everybody accountable >> in a standard format in a standard way because um if if we didn't have didn't have this this is where we could run into some issues um potentially down
075the road. Laura, you had mentioned that before, but um that's that's why the the adoption of this was put in place. And yeah, I mean, I'm I'm good with keeping it the way it is. Uh I think that by there gives you enough wiggle room in the in the u what what's the exact word in here? The specific work objectives and strategies to meet goal area to to tailor it to to our situation currently. But I'm with it. >> And I think we need to hold down to the same standards with all our teachers. >> That's a good point. >> Yeah. >> I mean, sorry. >> I get passionate about that. That's my profession. >> It's fine. >> I mean, we have and Tyler just hit on it. the you know we we had this
076and I I'm not gonna I I don't want to go too far into it but when we talked about our February meeting and we talked about not having an exit clause on the non-remployment of the superintendent in our policy and I don't know if this is something we need to change then if his or her services continue to be unsatisfactory the superintendent shall be notified in writing by the board president as approved by the board notification of this intent to not remploy his or her services shall be given in accordance with the contract that clause has been removed D from the contract. So this policy for non-remployment of the superintendent doesn't matter. That's how I would get because the cost has been removed which is it it's been removed. So >> I would uh have
077to check >> I defer you to Megan on that one because I think she >> she was she was involved in that. Right. >> Yeah. Well, it refers back to the policy. So some something is not consistent. >> You you're saying it reversed the contract. >> The policy reverse the contract. >> The policy is referring back to the the the employment or reemployment based on the contract, but there's no unemployment, >> nonremployment in the contract. There's there's nothing for that. No exit clause at all in the contract. I would I would be I I'm not going to speak on that because that's >> I mean it doesn't matter at this point because the contract is what it is. But if it's something that does need to be addressed, it needs to be addressed in the
078next few years. >> I think you have the right to understand and know that there's that it's not like I think you have a right to understand and what exactly that language means. So, I would I would check with Megan >> and make sure get back to Laura. So, you know, she can, you know, >> you can rest at ease that that, you know, we're good. We're not we're not we're not boxing ourselves in a corner here. We can uh >> not that I have a problem with Jared. We we discussed that. I don't have a problem with Jerry. >> Listen, while the public is is seeing if there is something you want me to do, I'm the type of person that will do it yesterday. I will prove to you my dedication and my
079passion to South Range as I have with the four other board members. So if you have something even if it's not in my evaluation as you've done before, I'm I'm the type of person that I desperately care >> because that's the only way I know how to live. >> No, I and I get it. >> And if you guys ever need me to get something done, I will get it done. And if I don't think it's right, I will speak up and say unfortunately like I run this district. >> I'm a superintendent. You guys have three roles. >> Yep. >> You manage the soup, you manage the treasurer, and you set policy. We set everything else. And how I run this district is through collaborative leadership. Period. I get a lot of input. I do
080a lot of time. I do a lot. But if there's something over, >> you're the expo, >> correct? >> Yeah. So, if there's something that we need or when I have to make tough decisions, which we've made, and I will continue to make, just know I will get it done and I will take your input and I will process all of that. >> And I believe you've proven that. >> Yeah. And so, I just want to let you know, you don't have to wait. And I get and I agree 100% with Tyler, like everyone should know all of that. And we have so many policies that one of our trainings they brought up. you will not know all the policies. Kevin Lock, the attorney, brought that up to us because there's a million of them.
081>> But my point is like you guys know, pick up the phone, call me if there's a concern. I'm usually on it anyways. >> Um because that's the only way I know to work and I want I want to say that publicly and sitting here hearing this conversation, I feel like I have the right to speak up and say >> absolutely. And I talked to Mario about this last week or so. I was asking is there an ever an opportunity and I don't know if this is something anybody's ever considered or we have done for our two administrators to evaluate us in any way. Is are we not providing him with the tools he needs to do the job that we ask him to do? Is there an opportunity? Does he feel comfortable telling us
082you guys want me to do this? I can't possibly do it because you're not giving me the ESC contract. I can't do this. Like is there is there an opportunity for I I I hope you understand that you have that also that free speech to tell us if you're asking me to do something that I just can't do. You're not giving me >> I think Jerry feels comfortable with with us. >> He's told me that before and I respect I respect that. So >> and and I thought because of this the communication issues we've had over the last month that if that's failing like we need to help you. So, just to let the board know, Laura has called me very frustrated because my all calls sometimes don't go out. My text messages don't go
083out. Laura has been right there saying, "We need to get you. You have you 100% have." And I showed Laura like, "Hey, I'm working with this. I'm working with the company." I look at de >> I said, "I'll put you on the phone with tech support." I'm like, "Well, you do that, but I I >> I said I'll put Laura >> I don't recommend it. come and go. >> But no, so I just want to let the board know Laura has has said >> and that's the only thing that I can think of off the top of my head that uh a system that we are providing to you is failing. So we want you to be able to have a system that's working. So you need to communicate with us if it's not and
084you're not getting anywhere with it. >> Got it. >> Anything else? >> All right, >> I'll move. Second. >> All in favor? >> I. All right. What time is it? >> 7:08.