001Oh, right here. Wait. Oh. I'm going to go ahead and call the meeting to order. We're a few minutes late. I apologize. Again, second apology tonight for not watching the time more closely. Yes, so you're going to do the oath of office. Where are you doing that at, Craig? Right there? Okay. Family, if you guys would like to come around in the middle so you can take better pictures over the top of us, you can. Oh, yeah. Feel free and walk around. Whatever y'all want. We'll give everybody a minute. Here we go. Everybody can be in here. Everybody wants to come around and walk around. Thank you, Madam Chair, for recognizing me. I'm the board clerk. I have the honor of swearing in new board members and I'm honored to do that tonight for Ms.
002Vernona Dismuke. So, this is pretty simple. I just make a quick statement. You repeat after me. If you please raise your right hand. I, please state your name, hereby declare under oath I, Vernona Dismuke, hereby declare under oath that I will faithfully perform the duties of a board member that I will faithfully perform the duties of a board member of Oklahoma City Public Schools Board of Education of Oklahoma City Public Schools Board of Education to the best of my ability to the best of my ability and that I will faithfully discharge all of the duties pertaining to said office and that I will faithfully discharge all of the duties pertaining to said office and obey the Constitution and laws of the United States and Oklahoma. and obey the Constitution and laws of the United States
003and Oklahoma. Welcome to the Oklahoma City School Board. >> Thank you. >> [cheering] [applause] >> Okay. Let's call the meeting to order. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I will now read the meeting protocols and call the roll. If everyone would please take a minute and silence your cell phones, we would appreciate that. And if you need to have an extended conversation with the person next to you or on your phone, please do so in the lobby. Please note, spontaneous comments from the floor are not permitted. Individuals who exhibit disruptive or distracting behavior will be asked to leave. Those who Well, it talked about coming to the podium, but we're not doing that tonight, so we can disregard that. So, I'll now call the roll. Paula Lewis Present. Carole Thompson Present. Lori Bowman Present. Jessica Sifontes
004Present. Dana Meister Present. Vernona Dismuke Present. Juan Lacona Present. and Galela Martinez Did I pronounce your name correctly? Yes. Thank you. >> Lightning, is your thing on? Turned on? Yeah, and I apologize, members. I forgot to mention, to speak, please press the button. Present. There we go. >> And pronunciation was good. Thank you. Thank you. And I forgot to mention, members, please press your button to speak and then press it to turn it off when you're not speaking. Thank you so much. All right, thank you. So, that brings us to the purpose of tonight and it is our effective goal initiatives and effective budget alignment. This is part of our student outcome focused goals, which are the three that we've been working towards for over a year now and making great progress through the hard
005work of the district. So, I will recognize A.J. Crabill and Carole Beckley. It's a virtual meeting, so they should pop up on a screen somewhere. Uh Hey, A.J. Can you hear me? We can. Excellent. Congratulations and welcome to your latest members. Uh Uh it is a wonderful thing to be able to serve children and community as board member. Both Carole and I as former board members know that joy firsthand and certainly celebrate with you as you begin this part of your journey. Thank you. Uh this evening we dive into one piece of the board members' duties, which is adoption of the budget. Um and this is actually a great place to begin cuz there are a lot of important important lessons to be taken away from tonight's conversation about what is the board's duty, to
006whom does it have that duty, and what does that look like in practice as relates to the budget. So, we'll dive into all of those. Most of what we're going to cover, you all have already received in the form of a document called effective budget alignment. And so, if you've had a chance to look through that document, um most of what we're going to cover this evening will simply be review. But this is also going to be a fabulous time for you to ask a lot of questions and kind of whatever clarity you need to get about the process. Like I don't know the specifics about your budget that your superintendent is presenting, that you'll need to have a conversation with her about. But if you have questions about the process and what is my
007role as a board member, what are the things that I really need to be on top of as I'm trying to be in discernment around whether to vote yay or nay on an annual budget, this is your time. And so, please, I hope you have something to write with wherever you're seated, and just be writing down whatever questions that you have so that we can try to make sure that they don't get left behind, they don't get forgotten. So, to start it off, we begin with the basics. Why do school systems exist? And most of the night's going to be just like this. We're going to ask questions and we'll just kind of wait for you all to hop in. >> Jessica, I'm not going to let you answer it. I'm going to see if
008one of the new board members Okay. Why school systems exist? To improve student outcomes. Nice job. There's There's only one reason school systems exist. There's only one reason the communities choose to invest the resources in school systems, and that's to cause improvements in what the communities' children know and are able to do so they can live a choice-filled life, they can meet their needs, the needs of their loved ones, the needs of their families. This is the only reason school systems exist. School systems don't exist to have buses, school systems don't exist to serve lunches, school systems don't exist to have books or buildings or any of these other things. There's a lot of things that school systems do, but none of those are synonymous with why school systems exist. The school system exists for
009one reason and one reason only, and that's to cause improvements in what children know and are able to do. It's to cause improvements in student outcomes. Why does that matter if we're going to talk about a budget? Why If we're going to talk about a budget, why are we starting off with this conversation about why school systems exist? It's hard to create a budget unless you know what the purpose of it is. Would be my guess. So, yeah, kind of hard to know whether or not you should approve a budget if you don't even know what the purpose of the budget is. Absolutely. Anybody else? Of all the places we could start, why we have Why are we ask talking about why school systems exist as a prelude to talking about the budget? District 7.
010I'm taking it all in right now, so I will pass it over to someone else. Okay. Jessica. Yes, we are talking about the budget because if we want to see better student outcomes, then we have to pour in all of our resources to improve that. We had a previous discussion that I asked if we want to see the reading grow, for example, how much money are we going to have to put it in? Well, if we want to see it grow twice the amount, then we have to put in twice the money we currently have. So, it's a kind of a proportion of of what outcomes we're going to see. Yeah, this is a real important insight is that it's one thing to say we value something, but the way that we really know that
011you'll value something is that you'll invest your school system's resources. And we say resources, we don't just mean dollars, we mean three different things: time, talent, and treasure. And so, the time of the school system, the talent of the school system, the treasure of the school system, how the school system invests those three things tells us what what the what the value what's truly valued. And so, that we can do this, but that doesn't tell us what's truly valued. It's where the school system deploys its time, talent, and treasure. That's what tells us what's truly valued. So, for example, if the board members say what they truly value is student outcomes, but every single board meeting all they talk about is how tall the grass is, we never talk about anything and we talk about
012well, what kind of tractor we should use to mow the grass and you know, should it be 1 and 1/2 inches or 2 inches and you know, what kind of blade should we use to cut the grass and what kind of how often should we water it? If that's the only conversation that the board ever has, um and by the way, I don't make stuff up. I'm just describe things that I've seen in other board rooms. I've watched boards have a 2-hour conversation about what what to do about the grass and and what kind of tractor to, you know, buy, you know, should it be a Kubota or a John Deere? Like I've watched that go down. And when that happens, it's easy if I'm a member of the community to be like, okay, well,
013then I I guess I know what they care most about. They care most about the grass. And and I understand why people would assume that because they see where the board invests its time, talent, and treasure. And so, the budget setting process isn't just a financial engagement. This is about the culture of the organization. This is about the vision and values of the organization. Anybody else? Oh, why are we having this conversation about why the school system exists as a prelude to a conversation about the budget. Anybody else before we transition? Superintendent Polk. >> [laughter] >> I like it. One of the things is as board member Jessica has shared is in regard to of how we spend our funds wisely in regards of um we have been deemed team too much. And we don't
014take things off of the plates of our teachers, our educators. This will give us an opportunity to systemically um pull things from. Because this board has a charge of me with getting graduates ready so that they're employable and listable as well as then also what's my 30? Enrolled and stay ready, don't have to get ready. >> Yeah. So in regards of that commitment this is my North Star in regards of how we do that. The importance of the alignment of the budget. Yeah, this is a really important insight. As people often think about what's important about the budget is where we're investing money. A lot of people miss what's also important about an effective budget is it also describes where we are stopping spending money. Where we are no longer allocating resources. Not because something
015was a bad thing to do. In fact, it could have been a wonderful thing to do. But the real question is is it aligned with our current intentions? And and so there's a lot of things that the district might be spending money on that you know is is not a bad thing objectively in and of itself. But if it's not deeply aligned with the direction of the board has cast for the school system then an effective budget not only tells us what are we going to spend more money on. It also would tell us what are we going to spend less money on. And part of the benefits of that is exactly what superintendent described is that in the moment we do so then we start to free up our staff. Often one of the
016concerns that I'll hear from staff all across the country is yeah, I just feel like the district keeps putting more and more and more and more on our plate. I don't have time to level my kids. I don't have time to pay attention to the needs of my families. An effective school system is looking at intentional employment. And one aspect of that is we we're taking things off of the plate, not just constantly adding on, adding on. And an effective budget helps describe what are some of the things that we're taking off of the plate. And so for all these reasons it's valuable to start a conversation about budgeting with being clear about why the school system exists. But we should also start a conversation about budgeting with a discussion about why does the school
017board exist? Is that a question we have you're asking us? Are you froze? >> I'm not froze. Oh, I thought you were froze. I was like, well for policy regulation. You okay? Jessica? Uh to something with the vision and values of the community. >> [laughter] >> Represent we represent the values of the community. Yeah, absolutely. Like [laughter] this is this is why the school board exists uh is because there's too many people your community is too big. Like there's some tiny communities near y'all, but you're not one of them. Your community is simply too big and so you can't have everybody in Oklahoma City sitting at the table making decisions. And so when somebody realized this they had the the clever idea well what we should do is since all of us can't sit at
018the table what we should do is we should identify some people who will represent our vision and represent our values who are sitting at the table on our behalf. And that unfortunate collection of individuals we now refer to as the school board. And so this is why the school board exists. To represent the vision and values of the community. This is the only reason the school board exists. The school board has a lot of duties, but all of them fit inside of this core description that the reason the school board exists is to represent the vision and values of the community. That you serve on behalf of your community as a whole and you bring their vision and what we mean by vision is you know what what the community wants its children to know
019and be able to do. And you bring their values. And what are the non-negotiables that should set the parameters for what's appropriate and inappropriate in our school system. And so the board represents the vision and the values of the community. Do you say what is the vision for where where our children should grow? We refer to those as goals. And what's the community's values that are non-negotiable? We refer to those as guardrails. And so the board exists to represent the vision and values of the community. And its first step in doing so is to identify and adopt the goals. And you identify and adopt the guardrails. And this is what it means for the board to represent the vision and values of the community. Mr. Chair. Yes, Jessica. >> I have a question for Mr.
020Crabtree. What's all right since we're talking about this? >> Yeah, just just AJ. Just AJ. Um so how does one set an effective budget when every school has different needs and maybe different barriers to complete the vision? >> Yeah. This is a really important question because part of the challenge for boards is that you you do not govern schools. You govern a school system. And so that does create a very real challenge is that you're trying to create a budget that is clear enough in prioritization that it um make sure that there's a focus of resources, but is also flexible enough that it actually allows for your professional educators to make meaningful decisions about what do they need to do to meet the needs of little AJ or little Carol that the board can't possibly
021predict. Like you as a board obviously you don't know what all of your tens of thousands of students need from day-to-day basis. And so your budget has to be specific enough to drive system-wide priorities but also has to leave enough um autonomy available so that the folks who are closest to children can make the decisions. And so that does take a significant piece off of your plate and that you aren't trying to think of okay, for every single child in the school system like what is the budget that best meets their need? Um you aren't taking that on your shoulders. What you are taking on your shoulders is what is the community's vision and values kind of at the system scale and what would need to be true at the system scale in the budget
022to make to try to make good on that. But then stopping beyond a certain point and delegating autonomy back to your educators for what are additional decisions that are made closer and closer to students. And so that is the that's the system that most boards have come up with for navigating this reality that you've got tens of thousands of students on the one hand, but only one budget. As you just you build autonomy into the budget where there are some things you're like nope, it's this way and it's got to be this way. But but then there are other things that are left to the staff to make decisions about. Is that responsive to your inquiry? Yes, thank you. Yeah, that So that is a hard thing to wrestle with is that as a board
023you will not make decisions for each and every single child. You will make decisions at the system level and then delegate to the superintendent who will then delegate to the principals who will then delegate to the teachers the job of trying to figure out what works best for the individual children we're serving. And that process of pushing autonomy, pushing decision-making as close to the children as possible, that starts with the board. You all have the authority. I actually clarify. You the board has the legal authority. You could write the world's most descriptive budget. You could you could literally say there has to be a budget and we want to know the name of every single child and how much and here's how much we're allocating to little AJ and here's exactly what it's for. And
024here's how much we're allocating to little Carol. And now that that that form of the budget would be you know what 60,000 pages long. But but you you have the legal authority. You all could probably do that and get away with it. But the reality is would that actually be the best way to serve kids? And so that's the challenge it is at some point somebody realized no, the best the better way to serve children is to devolve autonomy closer to our students for the things that we can reasonably do so. And do at scale, do at the system level things that make more sense to do at the system level. So for example, do you really want every teacher having to find out how to transport their students to class every day? Like that's
025really not a great use of teachers' time. So instead we have a busing system that works at the scale of the entire school system. So the individual teachers aren't trying to figure out how to Uber every single of their students to and from school every day. So there's some things it makes more sense that the board has devolved autonomy to the superintendent and she's passed some things on to like her transportation director who's making decisions at the level of the system. Some things on to the principals who are making decisions at the level of the school. And some things get passed on to the teachers who are making decisions at the level of the classroom. But that is a system that most school boards have chosen to use over time. Um just as a matter
026of trying to figure out how do we have the people with the most expertise making the decisions at any given time. And and this is an important point since you brought this up, you know, I'll take a quick aside. Uh but that's really what a lot of this is about. It's about who has expertise in what areas and how do we make sure that the people with expertise are making decisions that are aligned with their expertise. So, for example, um is the board a transportation expert? Anybody Is the board a transportation expert? No. No, no, it's definitively not. Uh this is not the expertise of the board. >> One is. No, no, the board No, >> [laughter] >> the question is is the board Not Not do board Yeah, hey, no. Deborah's got some transportation
027expertise, no doubt. But that's not the question. The question is does the Is the board a transportation expert? And the answer is no, the board is not a transportation expert. And so, you all could make every single decision every single individual transportation What time are we going to pick up little AJ? What time are we going to drop off little Carol? Like you could make every single decision, but the board chooses not to, even though it legally could probably get away with it. And the reason is the board's like, we want to serve children best. And the best way to serve children is to have the people with the most expertise in a given area make the decisions in that area. And so, this is the largest basis on which the board chooses to delegate
028a lot of decision-making authority to staff just because you want the people with the most expertise making the decision. But that But that simultaneously is the reason that the board and only the board can vote to approve the budget. It's because the board has a unique uh expertise that the superintendent does not have and that none of the staff have. And the unique expertise of the board is to represent the vision and values of the community. The superintendent, fabulous person, big fan, superintendent is not the community's representative. Uh she should never take it on herself to try to represent the community over and above, you know, the the wisdom of the board in this in this regard. That the superintendent is not the community's representative. Um and that's true even Yeah, I'm thinking of another
029school system right now where the superintendent, you know, she was a custodian, you know, she was a a para, she was a teacher, she was a principal, she was assistant principal, you know, uh assistant regional principal, assistant superintendent, now she's a superintendent. She She She went to the school district every grade, she graduated from the school district. Like she lives and breathes that school system. She's still not the person who was selected by the community to represent them. She is not the community's representative. The board and only the board is the community's representative. And so, because the board is the community's representative and because the funds are the community's funds, the board and only the board has the unique expertise necessary to to to discern does this budget honor honor the community's vision and values?
030The board and only the board Can follow-up on the expertise of the community and the the community values? So, when we're looking at that like as the school board since we only exist for governance of a system that's to educate students, so when we're looking at the values of the community, we're looking at the values of the community for the students. Like what their desire for that education system is. Not necessarily what color they want a gym floor or Yeah, so the the thing that you are highlighting is there's a difference between the values of the community um and the wants of individual community members. Um and this and that is important distinction that you as a board will always have to wrestle with is because people always going to roll up and want something
031and you got to figure out are they talking about the values of the community or are they talking about the wants of individual community members? Probably my favorite story that I think all of you have heard by this point on this topic um is a while back I was the vice president of my neighborhood association, which basically means whenever somebody in the neighborhood wants something they AJ, get over here and make this happen. And so, one day Miss Johnson calls me up and says, come on over. So, I'm I'm on Miss Johnson's front porch and she's like this I don't know, octogenarian is probably too young for her. She's probably at least 130 at this point. But she calls me over and she says, hey, you know, AJ, um I need a stop sign on
032this on the street corner. I was like, all right, um but I'd been through some community organizer training and and I and I knew that there's a difference between a value and an issue. There's a difference between the values of the community and the issues of community members. Uh and so, the training they gave us said if you push on an issue, you'll get to a value. So, I So, I pushed on the issue the way they trained us. I was like, well, Miss Johnson, why is why is the stop sign important to you? Well, she says, well, because these cars These cars are going too fast. I was like, well, Miss Johnson, why is that important to you? Well, because these kids are trying to play. Miss Johnson, why is that important to you?
033Cuz it's not safe. At this point, I've the issue that a community member brought up was the stop sign. But I pushed on that issue and I got down to a value. Well, now it's my time I go knock on doors in the community to you know, to visit with other folks. Hey, Miss Johnson's worried about safety and you know, she's made this request, you know, what concerns do you all have? And other people are like, yeah, we have concern about safety as well. And so, that That's when I realized that there is a value of the community here, safety, and there's also an issue of the community member, stop sign. Which of those was it my obligation to represent? The value. Yeah. And so, I call up Trevice, who is our city planner for
034our part of the city. I call him AJ, you know, Trevice, you know, I've talked to these folks in the community, you know, they really want they're really concerned about safety on the block, you know, cars going too fast, kids are trying to play. Miss Johnson's, you know, talked about putting a stop sign there. What do you think? She comes out, she surveys the area, she goes back to city hall, looks at their budgeting and comes and says, you know, there's a bunch of ways we can create safety on the block. We could turn it into a two-way street, we could turn it into a cul-de-sac, we could put a we could put a speed bump in, we could put a stop sign in, we could put a stop light. I mean, there's all these
035different ways. But after really doing analysis and using her expertise as a city planner, uh she uh recommended and the city approved uh putting down a speed bump to slow down uh traffic and they got it funded and in 2 weeks they're going to install it to help create safety on that block. Now, like the fool I am, I go back to Miss Johnson super [clears throat] excited. Like Miss Johnson, you're going to be so happy. You're going to be so excited, Miss Johnson. We're getting a speed bump, there's going to be safety. Was Miss Johnson happy, y'all? No. No. Oh, hell to the no. Miss Johnson was ferocious. Um I got cussed out by a little old woman that day. Um Miss Johnson was not at all pleased. What is this What did Miss
036Johnson want? A stop sign. She wanted a stop sign. That's what Miss Johnson wanted. Um was my job to represent the issues of community members or was my job to represent the values of the community? Values of the community. And this is the task that you all as board members run into is that you are constantly going to have people roll up on you. You going to be at the grocery store just minding your own business, you know, trying to find a ripe banana, um and somebody's going to roll up on you and be like, hey, um what are we doing about and then they're going to start they're going to start offering you a bunch of stop signs. Is it Will you take care of the stop sign? Hey, I I voted for you.
037You know, my my tax dollars pay your salary as a school board member. Um you know, and they'll say and then they'll say all these things. And And what they're really wanting is they want you to get that stop sign put in place for them. Is it your job to hand out stop signs? No. No. And that And that's the task. Um and so, you will do your job of representing the value vision and values of the community. But what you should expect is the same thing I should have expected. That doing your job isn't always going to get you thank yous. That sometimes it's going to get you cussed out by a little old black lady on the street who didn't get the stop sign that she wanted. Um and so, that's the challenge
038that you face as board members is that there there is the job that is apportioned to you, represent the vision and values of the community. Um and then there is the reality that you will constantly be confronted not necessarily by the values of the community as a whole, but definitely by the issues of community members. And it's going to take real discipline on your part to try to figure out, okay, how do I navigate that? And one area where you're going to have to get really adept at navigating that is the budget because what happens in budget season is people are like, hey, they're about to spend all this money. Um and so, your your phone might start ringing. You know, vendors might start calling, staff might start calling lobbying for stop signs. But it's
039not your job to make sure that everybody gets the stop sign they wanted. It is your job to make sure that the budget represents the vision and values of the community. Um and that that is the task that you all are confronted and and what we're going to spend our time on this evening is really talking through what does that look like? What does it look like for the board to represent the vision and values of the community as it relates to a budget as opposed to a board trying to just be responsive to all the requests for stop signs. Uh questions or reflections at this point before we move on. Anyone have any questions, comments? Uh I mean, maybe it's just me. Maybe Maybe there are no Miss Johnsons in Oklahoma City. Maybe Maybe
040that was just my neighborhood. I don't know. Oh, I've got one. I could tell a lot of stories. >> [laughter] >> Madam Chair. Yes. AJ, I do have to agree with you. Um people at the grocery store will approach you, will try to tell you how to do your job, will cuss you in Spanish, English, whatever language they can [laughter] think of. But at the end of the day at the end of the day, it takes a very unique person to do what we do. First of all, this is a volunteer position and a lot of people don't understand that. You know, they think that we we make we make lots of money and we don't. Uh but regardless whether you do right or wrong, whether you do too little, too much, not enough, or
041whatever, you you you're going to be criticized regardless. So um sometimes I feel like, okay, you know, nothing personal. I'll just take the input and listen, but how do you I lost my train of thought. How do you uh tell the community or not necessarily tell them, but how can you make them understand that the decisions that you made, it was based on the the information you have available at the time. How do you explain that to them? Yeah, this is really important and this is actually why I part of why I tell the story of Ms. Johnson. I mean, this is totally a true story. This is [clears throat] part of why I tell that people I meet this brother must hate Ms. Johnson. No, no, no. I tell the story because I think
042it's actually instructive one for exactly the point that you surfaced. Is it as public officials, you will be held to account for your decisions and it is appropriate that the community does so. Unfortunately, sometimes what that will look like is holding you accountable really creating accountability conversations around the vision values of the community, but a lot of times it's just going to be around the fact that you didn't hand over the stop sign when you were asked for it. And this is actually why I tell the story of Ms. Johnson is whether you tell whether you repeat the story I just shared to you or you tell your own version. It sounds like you've got a few of your own versions while that you might be able to tell on your own. I do recommend
043each of you have your own versions of Ms. Johnson story queued up and ready to go. Uh the people are going to ask, "Hey, how come I didn't get my stop sign?" And you need a way of explaining to them. What I found in my public service practice is this particular story, this particular parable actually tends to work pretty well to help people distinguish between the wants and issues of community members and the vision and values of the community as a whole. Um but most community members aren't walking around with that distinction in their brains. They're just walking around with the stop sign request in their pocket. Um and so it's really on you, the public official, to have that conversation with them and to help them distinguish between kind of what they're wanting and
044what your role is. Cuz a lot of people think, "Oh, you make the big bucks. Oh, you're the president of the school board, you must make all the money. I know how much the superintendent makes, you must make more than the superintendent because you're the president of the school board." Like it's people just people don't know these things and it's Honestly, it's not their job to know. It's It's It's your job to explain it to folks. And so whether you use this particular story or another one, I think storytelling helps a lot with kind of trying to communicate important concepts to the community. And so whether you use this story or your own version of it from your own experience, I think that's going to be your best bet. Is be prepared that folks are
045going to ask and it's their right to ask and it's your obligation to to answer when they do. Uh but how you answer matters. And I think answering through story and examples um is going to make it a lot easier. What I would coach you not to do. Do not expect that just because you did your job, people will applaud you. That is not how things are going to work out for you. I did not get applauded by Ms. Johnson that day, but I did in fact do my job. Madam Chair. Yes. I have a kind of a follow-up question to that. So, I mean, what is the recommended way to handle those stop signs that you might get um if they do come our way? Yeah, one of the other ways that I talk
046to people about this about, you know, why didn't my stop sign make it into the budget? Uh and and you have a finite amount of money and probably requests for that money that are probably 3x, 4x, 5x the amount of money that you actually have. So, there's a lot of folk there's this much desire for your budget and there's only this much budget. And so you're definitely going to run into this. Um and so it's wise that you're asking, "Hey, how how do we handle this?" You know, an another story that I often uh share with folks is, you know, I talk to them about you know, how many uh Juan you have or have driven a pretty big truck? How many miles per gallon does your truck get? How many miles per gallon does
047your truck get? On a good day, uh 4 gallons to a mile, but if it's not windy and depends on how much you're hauling, you might get three. Okay. On a big truck. Uh let let's hope it's a good day. Let's say you get 4 mi a gallon. So, I've got one gallon, you know, uh and I and I've got one Juan truck. If I put that one gallon of uh fuel in the Juan's truck, how far is that truck going to go? Not far enough, sir. >> [laughter] >> It might It might maybe it goes 4 mi. If I take uh if I imagine I've got two Juan trucks. I've got two beautiful brand new shiny Juan trucks um and I take that one gallon of fuel and I divide it among them, how
048far those trucks going to go? They might not even start. They don't [laughter] even start. The problem is they might not even start because there might not even be enough fuel. So, then what happens is people will like, "We want to divide the money in the across eight trucks. Well, well, we want to have 20 different trucks we want. We have 100 different trucks we want." You can want all the trucks you want and you can you're the board, you can go out and get 20 different trucks. But you only have one gallon of gas. You only have one budget and it has however much it has. And so the moment that is true, the moment people realize that's true, then you understand, "Okay, so we could divide this gallon of gas this gallon of
049fuel across 10 trucks, but ain't none of them going to go anywhere cuz there won't be enough fuel to to even uh cause combustion to even ignite the engine." Uh this is the that that reality uh for vehicles is the same as the reality uh for you as a board. Is it if you want to have 100 different priorities, you can do that. You have the authority as a board to have 100 different priorities. You could you could hand out 100 different stop signs. But you do so at the expense of not actually accomplishing anything. And in this particular scenario um in the in this um in this story, who's who's in the back of that truck? Kids. Kids. You you got all your kids with you. If you want your kids to actually be
050able to go somewhere, you can't divide that gallon of fuel across 100 different priorities and across 100 different trucks. You are going to have to target your resources very narrowly if you actually want kids to be able to go somewhere. And so what I find is that this this particular story, this particular parable tends to resonate with folks cuz that's true for your home budget as well. Like you can have and anybody who's had kids has experienced this. Kids got um here here's my paycheck and kids got wants that are five times what my paycheck can cover. Um and as as a parent, my job is to be like, "Well, no, this is how much we have." And if I try to spread all my resources across all the different wants, I can do that.
051I can do that as a parent. But my kids aren't going to get what they need. They're not going to get what they deserve. We won't create educational justice for them that way. The same thing is true in the household, it's true in your school system. That if you want to your children to actually be able to get somewhere in life, it starts with you as a board really being very, very discriminating about what are the few things that we're going to we're not going to go out and and not going to get 10, you know, shiny new Juan trucks. You know, we're we're going to get maybe one, two, or three. And but we're but we're but we're going to be really judicious and not because we don't love a bunch of shiny trucks.
052Not because your stop sign isn't important to me. It is. It's just I can't honor that and honor the needs of these children at the same time. I think I think as Jessica asked, and that's going to be a necessary part of how you communicate to folks is that there's a finite amount of dollars and if we don't focus those resources, our kids don't get anywhere. But saying that to people, I've not found has been all that useful. Using the story of the the truck and the gallon of gas does tend to resonate with folks as I'm trying to communicate why we can't give everybody the stop sign that they want. Is that Is that help Is that at all helpful? Yes, that's that's pretty helpful. I think it's funny cuz I actually had somebody
053ask me for a stop sign and I told them, "Do you know your your city council person?" >> [laughter] >> But uh yes, I mean, if there and I know that's a that's a metaphor for other things that are that people want in the district, but um I I guess what I'm saying maybe maybe this is a question for Dr. Polk. I mean, if there's an individual want an individual metaphorical stop sign, how would you want that to be handled? Asking a clarification of the question, that seems like an odd question. Seems like an odd question. Yes, I'm like I don't know like what you're because Superintendent Polk does not represent the community values. So, the board does. So, but I think what she's asking is somebody shows up and says, "Hey, can we get
054a new soccer field at XYZ school?" You're wondering what what do you do with that? Do you do you hand it off to the superintendent or what do you do with it? >> Yes, cuz that's not my purview. So, who do I hand it? Yeah, do I hand it over? Do I tell you? Do I >> [laughter] >> Yes, please share with and then we will cascade that information through cabinet cuz it perhaps has already been brought up somewhere else because as you all are being coached, I too am being coached to be mindful to ask or even to say my role or my commitment is to ensure that students are graduate ready. So, when I hear those things, I'm actually putting it through a filter to see if it is the value and vision
055of Yes, ma'am. And so, but I don't stop there. There's a process of that cascading of getting it back to cabinet and so that we can ensure um Please note, I may have also say we're also working on feedback. Looping back. Uh and not just assuming it's been taken care of. So, I appreciate that question, but as always, I am looking to uh determine or help others see my commitment to our students being graduate ready based off the three E's. You all have shared uh the goals and I will ensure that takes place, but then I take it another step further in uh in regards of our three E's. Great answer. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions or reflections before we move on? Anyone else? I'll just use an example that I actually sent
056the email, I believe, this week to Mr. Childers that I got a communication as a parent that was kind of random about exchange programs and I looked up the regulation they said and I couldn't find it. And I was like, it's okay. Like, they're still getting to do the exchange program, but like, what is this? And so, I just simply forwarded the letter that I received from the school and said, I don't understand this. Like, and I don't want it to and I I listed guardrail one and three. Like, if this is what this letter says, it violates those guardrails. So, tell me more about that. And I got a great answer back today from Tony. They had put the wrong regulation in there. It doesn't affect exchange, but it was just a question. I
057was like, hey, I got this. It doesn't make sense to me. And then I got the answer. But, I think that's really it is like a curiosity of like, tell me more. Mhm. How does that look? Um it could have come back differently, but it came back today. It was just they typed it wrong, whoever sent the letter. >> Mhm. And that's fine. >> That's the sort of thing that's going to come up. That's that sort of thing that's going to come up all the time. As board members, you know, you're constantly going to have things like that come up. I mean, the main thing is as long as you all have a coherent system that you've all agreed to for how to handle these things, um you know, that it's perfectly appropriate that community
058members come to you as their representatives with whatever concern they have. But, just because they show up and say, I want to stop sign, doesn't mean your job is to give them a stop sign. Uh but, it does mean that there's probably a process for that and it's and it's helpful if all of the board members are using the same process. Cuz the last thing you want, board members, is somebody go to board member A um and that person responds with the appropriate process and then they're like, okay, I didn't get what I want. Okay, I'm going to board member B. That person responds with like, okay, they didn't get what I want. Ooh, there's a new brand new board member. Let me see if if if I can find the weak link and they'll
059go to the brand new board member to see if they'll follow the process as well. The the last thing you want is community members experiencing different board members, uh some following the processes and some not. And so, trying to figure out what is it that we agreed to, how will we handle these things when we get stop sign requests, is an important you know, part of being a cohesive and effective team. Um and I think you have some of that in place. Um I know certainly Carol and I are happy to meet with folks individually to talk through what your existing uh policy say on how to handle these type of things, but then also if anybody wants to talk to us and brainstorm, hey, I'd like to make some modifications to the policy. Yeah,
060we're happy to share with you, visit with you and share about how what are ways that other school boards across the country are dealing with the exact same things you're dealing with. But, these these are normal things that you are going to deal with and it's healthy and normal that community come to you with whatever their concerns are. You all just want to have a consistent, normal process for how you deal with it so that anyone coming to any of you all get the same process. What you don't want is if people on this side of town got a good version of the process and the people on that side of town got a bad version of the process. Like, that's what you don't want. And that's what happens if board members start behaving differently
061to the same request. And so, as long as you're kind of cohesive and using the same process, um then if that will work out for you. It doesn't mean people are going to be happy with you cuz when people show up wanting a stop sign like Ms. Johnson, she got safety, but she still wasn't happy cuz what she wanted was her stop sign. Um but, at least at that moment you have done your job. People are going to you know, to Wanda's point, you're going to get criticized in this role whether you do your job or not. Uh we would just say, if that's the case, you might as well get criticized while doing your job rather than criticized while not doing your job. Uh Uh any other questions or reflections before we move on?
062It's time for us to dive into some of the mechanics of your budget. Any other questions or reflections before we move on? I have a quick question if that's okay. Hi, Gaile Martinez, new board member for district seven. Um my Thank you. My question is, how do we survey our students and or just proportional surveying across our community to find that value or to help inform where if our when our community is disengaged. I don't know if that question Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so this is So, there's actually before I go into the answer that, there's actually a hidden wisdom here that's worth highlighting. It's often brand new board members will make a super rookie mistake. And the rookie mistake will be this. Oh, I should know what the vision and values of the community are.
063I'll go ask some people on Facebook and then I'll know what the vision and values of the community are. Or, I'll go talk to some people that I know who you know, who voted for me in my campaign and that's how I'll know what the vision and values of the community are. That is a horrible strategy because just talking to the people on Twitter or just talking to the people that you already know or who live in your neighborhood isn't going to tell you what the collective vision and values of the community are. This is a but this is a common rookie mistake. People will get on the school board and they will mistake the voices that they have heard, the narrow set of voices they've heard as a proxy for the vision and values
064of the community as a whole. This is a horrible rookie mistake. And it's horrible for a couple reasons. One, because you remain ignorant of what the actual vision and values of the community are. But, two, because the moment you behave that way, what you're doing is you're saying, in this school system, we elevate the voices of the people who have relationships with board members over the voices of people who don't. And so, if you want your child to matter in the school system, they will only matter. Their voice will only be uh voice that's honored if their family members have connections uh with board members. That is not the culture that you want. That is not the system that you want. But, that is the unintentional side effect that board members create when instead of
065soliciting the vision and values of the community authentically, they take a proxy of, well, these are the people I know, so that must be uh yeah, I hear board members say stuff like, well, uh the community thinks. Well, how do you know what the community thinks? Well, I really I heard this one person on you know, Insta say. Okay, well, that's that is not a proxy for the community. Um and so, I just I share that to say, hallelujah for you um to start off your in your board service not making what is a very classic mistake. Um and and in fact, you already kind of gave rise to the correct answer in most cases, which is if you actually wanted to know, if you authentically cared about the vision and values of the community,
066then you'd put in place a systematic approach to listening for the vision and values of the community and you would never replace a systematic approach with well, here are the people I've talked to. But, even though you're clever enough not to make this mistake, just know that this is one of the most common mistakes new board members make. Okay. Old board members make. I mean, this is just a common mistake that board members make. And so, but you you largely answered your own question, which is the way that you would know the vision and values of the community is at some point there actually has to be an intentional um process by which the vision and values of the community is solicited. You actually listen to and write down the vision and values of the
067community. There are a couple of ways this happens. The first and most obvious way it happens is when the board is adopting its goals and guardrails, uh what it says are the priorities for the next five years for the organization. What uh um board members who've been on the board for a little bit, what did you do prior to setting the goals and guardrails? What did you do? I could say we had community listening sessions. So, we had a series of community listening sessions where we had um actually AJ and Carol provided us with even a script so that at each community listening session, they had the same experience. So, that if you came in and we had them at all the high schools and we um wrote down everything that was said and put
068it and actually, it's on our website. So, we'll get that for you. And um you put all the raw data in and then um we did a survey as well and we got 16,000 responses and then our evaluation department, our research and evaluation department uh distilled those comments, individual comments into themes and you can see that, too. We'll get you all this stuff. So, basically, this was the pre-work that we did to get to the place where we are today. And as part of the process, and I suspect AJ was going to go on to say, is we will revisit this over and over as we go through this process and make this just a part of the way we do business in OKCPS. So, part of it was the training session that you attended.
069That's part of it is like, making sure that the community, you know, our partners understand what this process is, but then at some point, and I can't remember, AJ, you say every it's well, certainly because our goals are 5 years. So, as as the as that horizon starts to, you know, approach, we'll go back out and listen to the community again. And we can strategize like if what we did last time didn't work appropriately, we can talk as a board about um how to make sure that as many people as possible are at the table so that we know what so that we can figure, you know, here from the community about their values. Yeah. This this is the job of the board is you have to have a systematic approach to harvesting the vision
070and values of the community. Actually go out and and and our encouragement of the board to go out themselves, not not to dispatch the coaches, not to dispatch staff, but themselves. We're not the community's representatives, you're the community's representative. So, it makes sense that you were the ones who are going out and listening for the vision and values of the community. As you heard, your colleagues did that and the artifacts of that, the evidence of that. You know, if people want receipts, we got receipts. The receipts are on the website for all to see. Here's the listening that was conducted, here's the process that we went through, here's the raw data that was collected. Here's that synthesized into a thematic frequency analysis. And so, that that is one way that that you would know more
071authentically what the vision and values of the community are is as a board you go out and listen. And then you kind of hinted at one other way is the board absolutely could, if it chose to, it absolutely could commission some type of survey or you could you know, hire some type of organization to run focus groups if you're trying to get a representative sample. But the but the thing that you want to do is you wouldn't want to engage in any of these efforts, you know, in just you know, one or two places. Like you don't want to do it comprehensive because remember, you all govern [clears throat] the school system. So, you all So, you wouldn't have somebody come to you and say, "Hey, I'm concerned about this thing at my school." And
072then you all would you know, just go out and do listening at that school. That's That's not That's not the the level of governing. The level of governing is really system-wide. And so, anytime that you all want to do that, you'd really want to do put together a process that was system-wide, which is part of the reason why you don't do this every day because you burn people out. That's why you do it as often as you need to, but usually realistically you know, probably at most every two or three years at minimum once every 5 years when it's time to adopt the next set of goals and guardrails. Um how responsive was that to your inquiry and kind of what else what else are you thinking about with that question? No, I think that
073was great and thank you. I have read the survey responses and looked at all of that, so that was really amazing to see as well. So, you know, thank you. That was a that was a good response. And and kudos to your colleagues. Most boards never put in the work. Most boards do not do the job to honor their role, to honor their obligations to community, actually go out and conduct the listening themselves. Your colleagues did so they and meticulously enough that they had tens of thousands of pieces of feedback that came back that can then give them some sense of validity that we have done some authentic listening at the scale of the school system. And so, that that is an important part of it. So, then when people ask, "Why are you saying
074that these goals and guardrails represent the vision and values of the community?" Well, we're saying that because here is the evidence, here are the artifacts that our judgment relied upon when we adopted these particular goals, when we adopted these particular guardrails. Like we didn't just make it up, we didn't just go with what the latest thing on social was. Like we actually went out and authentically listened, we asked questions and then we just shut up and typed while people talked. And then we put it all together, got the themes, and that's what we used to articulate. And so, when the board says that the goals represent the community's vision and the guardrails represent the community's values, they have a leg to stand on. If people want receipts, they got receipts. The board can always show,
075"Here's where we derived the goals and guardrails from. It was from authentic listening at the scale of community, at the scale of the school system." And so, that's an important part of work that you as board members will continue to engage in. That that work never ends. You are never done listening for the vision and values of the community. But it is the case of you do a massive job of it once every 5 years as it relates to adopting your next 5 years set of goals and guardrails. And then you do you know, more targeted versions of that in between as you're doing ongoing and just regularly scheduled community outreach and engagement. Um what's important about that question is it reveals that if we say that the goals that the vision and values of
076the community as described by the goals and guardrails are need to be the priority of the budget, like it helps to know that the goals and guardrails didn't just come out of thin air, they came from the community listening because the goals and guardrails are the chief instruments that the board uses for evaluating, "Should I vote for this budget or not?" The chief instrument that the board uses for evaluating, "Should I vote for this budget or not?" is the goals and guardrails. And we're going to dive more deeply into what do we mean by that. Um but first let's go through this chronologically. So, the first thing that happens I did want to clarify. I think you asked about students and I don't think I'm wrong on this, but I think students were included in
077the survey. So, those 16,000 So, just because I you did ask that, so I just wanted to make sure that you knew that that. And we could we can talk about sending out more surveys or doing things intermittently. Thank you. Yeah, students were definitely involved. I do remember that. Um and so, the product the chronology of a budget. So, when will you all get around to voting on your budget? Has to be before June 30th. Or on June Got to be before June Got to be there. >> Yeah, got to be on or before June 30th. It's got to you know, before June is out you've got to vote on the budget. What Um who develops the budget and why? The district, looking at Sydney, our CFO and her team. And the reason why is
078because they're experts in the subject matter. >> Yeah. This is about subject matter expertise. Um and pretty much anytime I ask, "Why is a task assigned to this person or that group versus that group or that person?" The answer like 99.9% of the time is going to be expertise. Who has the most expertise? If we want to serve our children well, we hand tasks to whoever has the most expertise in a given area. And so, when it comes time for the board to have a budget, that work is delegated to the superintendent. The superintendent also is generally not a finance expert. And so, the superintendent delegates it to the CFO. And the CFO and their team are tasked with putting together a budget. And so, just as a recap, why doesn't the board just craft
079a budget itself since the board represents the vision and values of the community? We are not subject matter experts. Yeah, that's the only reason. That's literally the only reason that it doesn't make any sense for the board to try to craft a budget itself because you just have the experts. If you really care about children, then what you want to do is you want to pair any particular job related to them with whoever has the most expertise in that area. That is that is the way of showing that you love children. If you have a child and they have a sprained ankle, you would want to take them to whoever has the most expertise to help address that. Um you wouldn't you know, pass it off to your 8-year-old and be like, "Hey, your brother's
080got a sprained ankle. And let's see what you can figure out about it. Maybe do some Googling." Like that's not how you would respond to that. Out of love for that child, you'd be like, "Who has the appropriate expertise to help address this sprained ankle?" And so, let's head down here to the doctor's office. And And you know, it's probably going to be a doctor or nurse practitioner or somebody who's going to wrap that up for you properly because they have the expertise. When it comes to loving children, one way that we demonstrate our love for children is we go out of our way to figure out what are their needs and how do we pair those needs with expertise. Um That is exactly how boards operate. Let's see. Um that's exactly how boards choose
081to Let's see. Mhm. Stop that. All right, it will keep trying to call me. I don't know what's going on here. That's exactly how boards choose to operate is they apportion tasks to whoever has the most expertise. And so, that's why the board could probably get away with trying to craft its own budget. That doesn't show love for kids because the board is not a is not a financial budgeting expert. Um even if there are individual members on the board who have expertise in that area, that doesn't change the fact that the board as an entity is not a budget expert. And so, the board delegates that to the superintendent who then delegates it to whoever has the most expertise in that area. When do they start working on the budget? You all have to
082adopt it by the end of June. When do the people with expertise start working on developing the budget? July after >> [laughter] >> July or August after we pass the pre No, The year before? As as superintendent or staff, when do you when do you all really dig into it? We We usually start working on the budget in March and April is when we plan for the next year. Um So, and so, what you want to know is like that is a long process. So, if you heard the answer, the answer that you just heard was we started in April of this year building on the budget for more than 12 months from now. Did I hear that correctly? Correct. >> Oh, is is that So, you've already worked on the budget for 2026-27? I'm
083confused. We are working on the budget for this for FY27. So, it's not that long of a runway. So, when do you start when did you start working on this budget? For FY27? For the next year? >> Yeah, the budget that will be the budget that will be adopted before June of this year. When So, we start we start looking at things in January, then we we start finalizing and crafting the budget in March / April. There you go. So, by the time we get to where we are now, April, the board the staff is already deep into the budget setting process. Um and so that's an important thing to know that this the board has delegated to the superintendent the task of developing the budget and the superintendent and her team get started on
084that long before it ever shows up in front of the board. So, by the time you all are looking at rough drafts of it, it's probably been three or four months in development. Uh the staff has been working on it based on what I just heard. Um and in some districts, they start even sooner. It's not uncommon uh for you know, districts to start in October, November, December uh developing the budget for the next uh school year. Um and so, the first step of this process is a superintendent and her team uh put together a draft of the budget. Once that has happened, um eventually the budget needs to come a rough draft of the budget needs to come before the board. Um and when the board is looking at the budget, um what is
085the board looking for? This is uh really the heart of today's entire conversation. When the board is looking for the budget, actually let's flip that question around. What is the board not trying to accomplish when it's looking at the budget? You know, what what are things the board isn't trying to do when it looks at the budget? Anyone? Repeat the question again, AJ. Yeah, this is a tough one. What is the board not So, the staff has been working on the budget. They hand you a rough draft of the budget. They Here's here's where we are so far. We think this is what the budget's going to look like that we're going to ask you all to vote on and adopt. As the board is evaluating the budget which is placed in their hands, what
086is um I want to talk about what your job relative to the budget is, but before we go to that, let's actually go the opposite direction. What isn't your job? What is What is the board not trying to do when it looks at the budget? And Oh. Cut program? Just look at it and say, "Okay, that looks good to me." Yeah, so one thing that is not your job is just you know, say, "Oh, yep. I'm Yeah, we trust the superintendent, so we're just going to you know, sign Sounds good." Like that is that is not the job. All right, anything else? What is not the job when you receive the budget? I don't know if this is the right answer, but maybe cut programs or classes. Uh what is not the job is to
087go through like, "Hey, I When I was a kid, I really loved this program. Uh so, let's make sure we put this program in all the classes." That is not the job of the board when you're looking at the budget. That's absolutely correct, sir. Uh that It's correct that that is incorrect. Well done. Uh anybody else? What is not the job of the board when you're looking at the budget? Madam Chair. Yes. Um to to make make the budget like from scratch. Like to to set the whole [laughter] budget from scratch. Hey, look. You say that um and you I heard somebody kind of snicker, but I've actually seen boards try to do that. I literally saw a board chair show up at the meeting where the superintendent was handing the budget with her own
088copy of the budget which was completely different than the superintendent's budget. Um and then the board actually voted with the you know, board chair um and they ran the district into the ground and the state had to come in and rescue them and take over the district and all the board members were kicked out. But but I have seen a board try to do that. I Our coaching would be that ain't that ain't that is not the job that you want to do. That um is is just simply remaking from scratch. Uh Any Anyone else? What is not the job of the board when it comes time to adopt the budget? So, you're really not picking the specifics of the budget. It's making sure that the budget is aligned with the goals, but it's not
089saying, "I don't like and I'm making stuff up cuz I'm not an educator. The letters curriculum over the non-letters curriculum." Like it's that's not our job. It's Yeah, this is a this is an important you know, part of this distinction is that sometimes people think, "Oh, I'm on the board now, so I get to pick you know, which schools we fund and which schools we don't fund. I get to pick which programs we fund and which programs we don't fund. I get to pick who we hire, who we don't hire, who we fire, who we don't fire." Um that is a mistaken um view of the board's role. Um and not because those things are bad or wrong or anything like that, but why do we give the task of developing the budget to staff?
090Cuz there's a CFO who's an expert in Again, I told you I told you pretty much every single time I I'm going to keep asking this question and every single time I ask this question, the answer will be the same. Well, this is about expertise. If we love children, then we identify people with expertise, then we have them handle the things, you know, the various pieces of it. Um um and then bring that back to the board for the board's final discernment. Um and so, all of these things you described are not functional of the board. The function of the board is to represent the vision and values of the community. And so, when it comes to the budget, what you're really looking for is what evidence is there that this budget is aligned with
091the vision and values of the community. That's That is the job of the board when it comes time to being in discernment about should I vote for this budget or not. It it isn't do I like the things in it or do I dislike the things in it? Do I like the people who are funded or dislike the people, you know, who aren't funded? None of those are what the board is doing. What the board is doing is they're being in discernment around Okay, here's the vision and values of the community, the goals and the guardrails. What evidence is being presented to me that this budget is advancing progress toward the goals, that it's prioritizing for funding, it's making its first priority for resource allocation accomplishment of the goals, and [clears throat] that it's prioritizing
092resources to honoring of the guardrails. And when I see that evidence as a board member, that means great. All right, well we're ready to vote. If I don't see that evidence as a board member, then we need to have a very different type of conversation with the superintendent cuz we're not just going to push this through. The the budget has to honor the vision and values of the community. That is a non-negotiable. But the way that you know what the vision and values are the goals and guardrails. Um and so, then you That is the lens that the board is looking through when it's determining should we adopt this budget or not. So, the superintendent is going to hand you the budget and obviously she knows what the goals budget is definitely aligned with the
093goals and guardrails. Should you just trust your superintendent? No. No, that's rubber stamping. What? You don't trust the superintendent? I didn't say that. I said that's rubber stamping. And if the community wants you to ask questions. Yeah, it is inappropriate for the board to simply take the superintendent's word for it. And that's not synonymous with we don't trust the superintendent. It is saying that the job of the board is to represent the vision and values of the community. Um and even though the superintendent has said that, our coaching is that you must trust her, but verify. That it is not appropriate to merely trust. You must trust, but verify. And so, the questions that you're asking are your way of verifying how do would we know that this is aligned with the vision and values
094of the community. That it's not enough to just take her word for it or take her staff's word for it. We know they're experts. We got that, but even then it is not appropriate for the board to simply take the word for it cuz the board also has expertise. The expertise of the board is in representing the vision and values of the community. And so, it's possible that the staff could do the best job they know how to do and have fallen short of actually representing the of prioritizing the vision and values of the community. But the only people who can make that judgment call, the only people with the expertise to make that judgment call is the board. The That is This is the reason why even though the staff develops the budget, only
095the board can adopt the budget because only the board has expertise in what is the vision and values of the community. Only the board can make the final judgment call, yes, we declare as a board that this budget is prioritizing the vision and values of this community. Or no, we declare as a board this budget is not prioritizing the vision and values of the community. And that is a judgment call that requires expertise and the uh the only person body with the expertise is the board. The staff lack that expertise. So, they have expertise to develop the budget, but they don't have the expertise to to affirmatively assert that it is in fact aligned with the vision and values of the community. Only the board can do that. This is why only the board can
096vote to adopt the budget. And so, this is the lens that you're looking through. This is the fundamental work of the board when it comes to the budget is that you have to pull out your goals, pull out your guardrails, pull out a copy of the budget, and start asking questions. Now, fortunately, in the document that we shared with you, the effective um budget alignment, there's actually literally a list of questions in there. So, um you can go back to that document after uh this meeting and look in there and say, "Okay, what type of questions would I ask?" Um we give you a full list. But since we're here uh right now, um take a stab at it. Um what are some examples of some questions you might ask to help you get an
097understanding of whether or not the budget has some alignment with the goals and guardrails. What are examples of questions you might ask? Well, the board members are thinking of some questions. I was kind of thinking that another reason is often times a word like status quo will be used. Like and so if if you don't ask the questions, the community can't see that it's not status quo, that we haven't changed how we're doing business, that we are aligning for student outcomes. And so I think that's a pretty valuable piece of the questions during the budget process is to show that we are doing things differently. Yeah, even if you knew all of the answers, that yes, this is perfectly aligned. I've looked at it. I've had some conversations behind the scenes. We would say that
098there is still value to make sure that the public has an opportunity to witness its business being conducted in a public meeting. Um and so even if you know all the answers and you're already very confident and certain, we would still encourage each board member to ask at least one question just to make just to double-check, just to make sure that the answer that you got in private is the exact same as the answer you got in public. And that the public has an opportunity to see its business cuz it this ain't your money. I don't know if y'all know this, this ain't your money. Uh this is the community's money, the community's children, the community's building. This is a community school system. So the community does have a right to see the business of
099its school system conducted in public. It's not the community's meeting, it's the board's meeting. Um but it's the board's meeting conducted in public. Um and so there is value to that. There's value to the community being able to see, okay, I see that these are the goals they adopted based on listening to my voice, and I see that they are holding the superintendent superintendent accountable for making sure that those goals are driving force of the budget before they adopt it. That is a reasonable thing to allow the community to see. So as a way of doing so, what are what are some examples of questions that you might ask as you're trying to ascertain does this budget honor the vision and values What are some examples of questions? Anyone? Madam Chair. Yes. Um I would
100ask, are there any new strategies that we are investing in, continuing, spending less funding in, abandoning? That's that's one that I would ask. Yeah, I would ask that very question. I would probably sharpen it up a little bit. As I As it relates to goal As it relates to goal number one, you know, are there what which strategies are we spending more on, which strategies are we spending less on? I'd absolutely ask that question. The The only thing I would I would nudge on a little bit I think again I think as Jessica asked in is I I point to a particular goal or particular guardrail. Hey, as it relates to this goal, what evidence is there that we're actually spending more money or strategies are we investing in relative to accomplishment of this goal?
101And if the superintendent can't answer that question, I don't think it's time to vote on this budget. I mean just straight up, if the superintendent can't answer that question, I I I I don't think it's responsible for the board to be proceeding with the budget. Now, you all are very early in the process. So this year, you should expect that there should be a very tiny amount of alignment cuz she just got the goals and guardrails not long ago. And so she hasn't had, you know, a full year to really try and move the machinery. But by the time we get to the same conversation next year, you should absolutely see even more aggressive movement of resources in the direction of the goals and guardrails, and the year after that even more aggressive, and the
102year after that even more aggressive. Um and so there is a kind of scaling up of this thing over time. Like your staff is in the very very beginning. But even now though they're in the very beginning, I would be asking questions just like that to nudge and let your staff be clear, we're not playing. Like the community's vision and values are our North Star, and we are going to have an expectation that you've begun the process of aligning resources with them. That's exactly the example of question I would ask. Who else? What's a question you might ask that would help you get at whether or not there's alignment between the community's vision and values, the goals and guardrails, and the budget the superintendent's asking you to consider. What what other questions might you ask?
103Well, I am just reflecting on past budget seasons where, you know, it's I'm not a budget expert. I mean I'm the first to, you know, so so sometimes it's intimidating just to even the format of budgets are sometimes So I think I would ask something like, how can I like show me in this budget where the line items are aligning with the goals. So for me, I think it has a lot to do with the actual even format of the budget that we receive to review because I think sometimes they're it's really hard. It's a lot of pages with a lot of line items with information that I am not the expert in. And so I think I'm going to be asking a lot about like looking at this document, how can I be sure
104that, you know, it's aligned to the goals. Show me through the format of the actual document that it's aligned to the goals and guardrails. Or in I don't >> This is actually This is actually spot-on for two different reasons. This is spot-on and it's spot-on for two two very very different reasons. The first reason it's spot-on is just because of everything you just said is that if the the way I probably ask the question is, hey, as it relates to goal number two, walk me through the budget. You know, what are the line items that are really that you say you're going to move the needle on, you know, goal number two? I think it's spot-on because it then it puts the onus on the superintendent and team. If they can't do that, I I
105don't know that it's responsible for the board to proceed with the budget. Like they they should be able to say, hey, here's what we're doing. So it's I think it's wise for that reason. It's actually wise for an an entirely separate reason. And this is true This isn't just an Oklahoma thing, this is all across the country. What happens is for most school districts, their budget is based on essentially a template that they got from the state. Is this true for y'all as well, staff? No, we don't really use a template. We have developed a a budget process but it's been >> so you all don't have to submit a budget to the state? We do have to submit a budget to the state, but we don't have like a template that we have to
106follow. Oh, so they don't care what format you send it in. You send it in anything. Okay, got it. So in a lot of states, they ask the state actually says, everybody submit it in this format. But you all have a more permissive state that says, you send it in whatever format. [clears throat] Oh, yes. We're super progressive. Wow, progressive progressive. But there are specific things that they are expecting to see in that budget, correct? Yes, correct. Yeah, and so and so what often happens is that budgets are developed with the expectation of the state with state requirements in mind. Um and so often the view of the budget you have is a view that's heavily influenced by the state's expectations for what should be in the budget. And in some places like Texas, there's
107literally here is the exact format that we have to submit it to the state. Like here's the exact template. >> [snorts] >> Um and so what happens over time is often the way the budget is designed is less responsive to how do we know that this is aligned with the vision and values of the community and is more responsible to responsive to how can we make sure that this is acceptable to the state that we have to return it into. Um and so those two things frequently are at odds with each other. Like the budgets that you statutorily have to submit here are budgets that completely in no way clarify whether or not investments are aligned with the goals and guardrails. No way there's there is no way to look at one of our budgets
108and glean from it any sense of alignment with the goals and guardrails. There's just no way at all. And so in those contexts, what we often tell the superintendent is that she's actually going to have to develop two completely different views of a budget. One view that is designed to be appealing to the state, and one view that is designed to be communicative to the board and community. >> [clears throat] >> Um a view of the budget that emphasizes its alignment with the goals and guardrails. But natively, most budgets just simply don't end up doing that. And so don't be surprised and so staff, I know I've mentioned this to you before, but don't be surprised if you need to create two entirely separate views of the budget. One that is the view that it
109follows your generally accepted accounting practices and is that is effective and appeasing the state's requirements, but an entirely separate view that is really looking at how would we evidence to the community and to the board that our first priority for resource allocation is accomplishment of the goals, and our second priority for resource allocation is honoring the guardrails, and then everything else comes in after that. You know, what what view of the budget would we have to create for that to be true? Here in this first year that you're doing it, what you'll probably do is take a more minimal approach to it, which is to simply have a separate presentation that is not keyed toward generally accepted accounting practices, but instead it's keyed toward how would we evidence, you know, what what is the presentation
110we use and the slides that we put in there to show alignment of resource allocation and initiatives with accomplishment of the goals and honoring the guardrails. But until that happens, the question that you offered, hey, superintendent, walk me through this, and as it relates to goal number two, show me where the investments and and evidence for me that the investments to accomplish goal two are greater this year than they were last year. That is a perfectly reasonable question for you to ask as a board member. Uh I think that was Lori. Uh the anybody else? What what what what questions might you ask to help you as a board member get a sense of is there alignment between the budget and the superintendent proposed and the community's vision of values? What other questions might you
111ask? Ms. Dana. Where's the evidence to prove that they're Can I read from you? To prove [clears throat] that they're prioritizing the right doing what they say they do. Is there evidence to back up this budget? Yeah, again, I can't emphasize this enough. And people people sometimes make the mistake of thinking this comes from a hostile and untrusting area. It doesn't come from that. It comes from our job is to represent the vision of values of the community. It's not the board's job to make the superintendent's life easier to represent the wants and the needs of staff. It's the job of the board to represent the vision of values of the community. And so you have not really a right, but an obligation to ask for the evidence. And part of the reason, board members,
112that you have not merely a right, but an obligation is because nobody else is in a position to hold the superintendent accountable for creating alignment with the community's vision of values. You all and you all alone have the authority to hold the superintendent accountable for this. So if you're not asking these questions, no one else with authority is going to come along and ask them for you. But it's not merely an obligation, but it's also a need for you all because at some point, after you adopt this budget, somebody's going to roll up on one at the grocery store like, "Hey, why did you vote for this budget?" And it's not going to be enough that he has a winning smile. Like, he's going to have to show those some evidence. Like, what is the
113evidence that you relied on when you decided to vote for this budget and all these hundreds of millions of dollars? And he's going to need to be able to show, "Well, actually, here here are the goals that we adopted. And here's the evidence that we're allocating more resources toward these goals this year than we actually did last year." Uh and then we're walking away from practices that are less aligned and funneling those resources into practices that are more aligned. Like, you all deserve that evidence, and it's your superintendent and her team's job to provide you that evidence. So yes, that question is exactly an example of a question that I would ask. Another thing I just want to know is again, I I'm trying to identify, "Okay, so for goal number three, show me the
114evidence because I'm going to be asked and I'm going to have to stand to account. It's my name on the line when we vote for this. It's not the superintendent's name on the line when you vote on the budget. It's your name on the line as board members. And so you you deserve, you have the right to have evidence that helps you be able to go back to community and say, "Here's why I voted yes." Is it everything that I like? No, but it's not about what I like. It's about is it aligned with the vision of values? Is it the Is it the budget that I would select if I was the superintendent? Is it all the things that I want funded? Is it removing the things that I don't want funded? Is it
115Is it pleasing to the people on my block? None of those are the relevant question. The question is, has the superintendent provided evidence that this budget is aligned with accomplishing the goals while honoring guardrails? And the moment the board is convinced of that, it's time to vote yes. And until the voted the board is convinced of that, it's not appropriate to vote yes. It's not appropriate to approve the budget just because the superintendent is a wonderful human and loves kids. So I have a question about that cuz I have I would place a lot of bet that if I was asked a question, it wouldn't be why I approved the budget, it would be why did you approve something that took that out of my school. Like the opposite so would be more in line
116of like what is being cut. Like I don't it The worst feeling of a board member is being caught off guard having to be like, "I didn't know that doesn't happen anymore." Like I can think of 50 different situations like that. Yeah, so that's so that's a perfect example of a question that I think is highly appropriate for you to ask. It is Superintendent Madam Superintendent, in the creation of this budget, what are examples of things that you removed from the budget that you're no longer funding and which goal or guardrail did you reallocate those funds to? And if the superintendent can't answer that, I don't know that it's time to ask it to adopt the budget because you are going to be asked that. Hey, we used to fund the chess club over here
117at my kids' school. How come we're not funding the chess club this year? You say, "Hey, look, yes, I'm aware that we used to fund the chess club and we're not funding the chess club this year. But I'm also aware that those funds all been allocated to accomplishment of goal three. And here's what goal three is and and it's grounded in the community's vision and for what our children should know and be able to do. And that's that's why I supported it. It's because the resources were redirected to a place where this is actually going to help us expedite our way along the path toward the goals. But if you all as a board can't answer that question, I don't know that you're ready to you know, to vote on the budget. Like you all
118need to have answers to these questions when the community asks. And the budget process is the opportunity for the staff to be able to answer these questions so that when you're called upon, you can answer these questions. It's absolutely fair not only to ask what's in the budget that's prioritized. It's perfectly fair to ask what was what did we draw down? What did we What did we dial down to save funds and then what did we dial up with the savings? Perfectly appropriate questions to ask. Thank you. Anyone else? Madam Chair. Yes. I'd like to know when will we get the opportunity to see the budget this year for next year? Yes. >> great question. Somebody know that? I think that was Carol. Yeah, yes. So uh we are working on it right now. It
119would [clears throat] probably be closer towards the end of May when I could get a draft. So that pushes us and I understand this is a first year, but in order to pass that by June 30th, that's really tight on good conversations around meetings where we could have open discussion about it without calling special meetings. So I feel like we're a couple months behind cuz we have graduations coming up. Like it's a pretty hectic time of year. Um and what is very appropriate um is the the board sets the board agenda. The superintendent does not set the board agenda. So the board sets the board agenda. So it's very appropriate for the board to say, "Hey, for next year's budget, here's the board meeting that we would like to vote on that budget at." And
120then that And then the staff is confident enough that they can work backwards from that date. And if that means they have to start in February, they start in February. If it means they have to start in January, they start in January. If it means they have to start in December, they start in December. But I think the the board has every right to set its own agenda. And the board has every right to say, "Here Here's when we want to adopt the budget." And so maybe you say, "We want to adopt the budget um no later than June 15th." Okay, great. Well, then I'd probably put it on the agenda for May 15th. Um so that way um if it doesn't pass the first time, um then you get a second bite at the
121apple and then you can vote on it by June 15th or something of that nature. But the way that the board uh would manage this is you just build into your annual um calendar. So this should be known at least, you know, 12 if not 18 months in advance. This is not something you'd ever do short run. But I'd let the superintendent know 12 to 18 months in advance, "Here's the exact uh board meeting at which each year that we want to that we want to have the first opportunity to vote on the budget." Um and then staff will figure it out from there. We would likely put it on information first and that's more of the issue is that like we're not the experts in the budget and so to say you're going to
122present it on May 15th and you want us to vote on it, like we have to have time to look at it. We can't ask the questions. We can't come up with the detailed questions, review the line items cuz again, we're not a full-time board. We all have other jobs. And so 30 days isn't enough to satisfy the community in my opinion. Other board members can weigh in that we've actually asked the right questions, given the community time to give us feedback on the budget to make sure we're aligned. Like to me, that's a 2-month process at best. And maybe the board gets it in email ahead of time so we have time to look at it, but there's definitely I I just believe there's going to require more time. Well, and so that is
123not So so that is not a conversation um given where we are on the timeline. That is not a conversation that's particularly useful for this year, but it is exactly the conversation that the board uh needs to have and put in writing um and say, "On a go-forward basis, this is the board's new expectation." Um and the staff will figure it out and they'll adjust accordingly. Um but that is per It is perfectly appropriate for the board to dictate its own schedule and say, "Here is when we want to um here's when we want to consider items and here's when we want to vote on items." Okay, thank you. Uh but yeah, ideally, you all put out a um annual or multi-year calendar that says, you know, like your monitoring calendar, you know, last 60
124months, perfectly appropriate to upgrade that by putting on, "And here is the month and day each year that we look at the preliminary budget and here's the month and day that we first have an opportunity to vote on the final budget." And just put it on your calendar. And then staff will They are competent, clever humans. They will figure it out. Thank you. So long as it's something reasonable. Don't put like January. Like, do something reasonable, people. Exactly. Other Other examples of questions that you might ask before we transition. Other examples of questions you might I think Jessica had a a comment or question. >> Yes, it's a comment, not a question. I I agree with that. I do also believe it is really hard on us to I mean, get a lot of information
125presented to us and not have enough time to review it and ask those questions. I think an appropriate timeline would be great. Absolutely. Um it is on it is on the board. Uh, I want to be clear about this. It is not on the staff uh to um be psychic about what the board's needs are. It's on the board to be clear about what its needs are. And and again, I think whatever those needs are, as long as you write them down and let the staff know 12 to 18 months in advance, the staff will figure it out. That is their job. They will figure it out. And so, whatever it is that you all need, communicate that by putting it on your calendar. Uh, don't just talk about it at the board meeting. Like
126literally sometime in the next two or three months, there needs to be some formal um process of adding it onto your calendar somewhere so that it's known to staff 12 to 18 months in advance. Here's what the board's expectations are so that we can plan accordingly. Um, and let me just check in with staff. Staff, am I crazy on this? If you get a clear communication, can you make it happen? Yes, and I think that's a good idea. I mean, historically we've crammed it in towards the end of the year trying to get as much financial data as possible, but it puts a burden on us also. And so, I'm all for trying to plan it out further ahead to give you guys time to take a look, ask all the questions, and get all
127the information. It's just a fine line because and I understand what you're saying, A.J., but we've been asking about the budget for months now and it feels like micromanagement. We haven't had this ahead of time enough for me to be able to say like, "Look, we need that by April 1." But we've been asking like, "When are we seeing it? What's going to happen?" And we just haven't been getting that. It wasn't received. So, if we have to put it in writing, but that it's a hard change for us cuz that feels like it's a micromanagement as opposed to like it's the right thing to do. >> Yeah. Get the information. >> so, first of all, you'll probably notice you basically never hear Carol and I use the term micromanagement. Um, I I think it's
128a kind of a misguided term. It's often used just to beat board members over the head and deprive them of their authority as board members. So, I'm not a huge fan of the term. Uh, but I understand people throw it around a lot um as it relates to school boards. What what I would say is uh if I was forced to use the term micromanagement, I would say micromanagement is when someone delegates authority to someone and then oversteps the authority of the delegation. So, if I say, "Hey, Carol, you can decide what we're having for dinner tonight." and then I overstep her and order dinner myself, in that moment I would have micromanaged dinner. Um, and so, this doesn't fit anywhere in that paradigm. This is you all saying, "Hey, we've got a job to
129do whatever year. It's on you to develop the budget uh but it's on us to adopt it. So, here are the dates that we need. We need, you know, a preview of it on this date and then we need to be ready to vote on it by this date." Um, and so, that's not you telling them how to do their jobs. That's not you stepping over and doing their job for them. Uh, that's not you ordering the dinner after you delegated them ordering the dinner. That is you saying, "For our piece of it, we just want to be clear about what we need to do our piece and this is what that looks like. You you all make whatever adjustments you need accordingly." But but let me further state this since you brought it up.
130This is a really important point. Board members, take note. Effective governance doesn't happen uh by um random comments and statements and requests. Effective governance is really going to have to happen by intention and planning. And so, when you want something as meaty and substantive as a budget, asking for that even with two or three months' notice doesn't cut it. That is not effective governance. Like if you want something, you need to be planful about that literally 12 to 18 months in advance. The timelines for effective governance are vastly longer than the timelines for effective management. Effective management runs on a very tight timeline. Effective governance runs on a very long timeline. Uh, so for example, when it comes time to evaluate your superintendent, this you you um evaluation that's done in the next, you know,
131two or three months if you did one, um wouldn't be based on the goals and guardrails cuz she hasn't had them for at least a year. But once she has had them for a full year, then it's perfectly appropriate to evaluate her performance on that. Again, what that tells you is the timeline for governance is vastly longer. Like trying to throw new uh obligations at her that she's going to be evaluated on on a six-month or even a nine-month timeline doesn't cut it for effective governance. It really has to be at least 12 months out that she's had the goals and guardrails and then you absolutely can hold her accountable for them. And so, what that tells you is the timeline for governance is just vastly longer. And so, when you want something, generally understand
132that the effective way to govern toward that is for us to have made that uh expectation clear 12 to 18 months out. Um, and the way to do it in this context is just literally put it on your calendar and then staff will know, "Hey, we have to hit this thing on the board's calendar." May I? Yes. Um, just for clarification purposes and to put it in the space, we are um actually adopting a new system, our ERP. Um, and I'm grateful to have this conversation now because if the runway is shorter, then we will need uh to re-look at your org chart to ensure we can do so financially. So, I am grateful for this conversation now, but I also want to put not a butt, but and put in the space with the
133new system coming on board, uh that runway of learning is going to be need to be calculated also cuz it is a major lift right now and uh I want to say we're we're trying to stay within that timeline, but that too is the finances, a major aspect of lifting a multi-million dollar system in place. And so, Sydney, anything along that lines to add to in regards to the ERP system? Yeah, I mean, um we are planning to go live on July the 1st, so it is a huge huge lift. It will be a big shift, but it also should help make the budgeting process a lot more streamlined and efficient. It's got certain modules in there that the current system doesn't have that will help us get to that point. So. Um, board members
134or to staff at this point, other questions about effective budget alignment? We've been spending the entire evening just really setting the stage for this conversation. Now we're deep into it. We're asking great questions. We're being planful for the whole next cycle, uh which is powerful cuz now is the right time for a board to be planning for the next cycle. Um, other questions or comments about effective budget alignment? Uh, Jessica has one, but first I wanted to say I'm pretty sure the new system is part of the bond 2022, right? So, thank you taxpayers for the new system. Appreciate that. All right, Jessica. >> [laughter] >> Yes, I'm excited for that, too. Uh, this is a question I guess for Chair Lewis and maybe the rest of the board, too. I mean, is that So,
135setting the timeline for not this time around, but for next year, is that something that you would want to look at in the policy committee? I don't necessarily You can answer that. Oh, well, I was just going to share that um even today with Coach Carol in our monthly update call, we're going to add the board self-evaluation, the quarterly self-evaluation to our I think that we should probably rename the monitoring calendar to more of like a board and, you know, like >> you had in just like our board calendar. I mean, basically we're That's what I was just thinking in this conversation is we're we we're we're doing self-evaluations quarterly, um the first one in May, and that will add those to the monitoring calendar, but I think we should just add this and I
136don't know I mean, we whether or not it's a policy is is, you know, probably for the coaches, but but I think too that we need to just agree upon backing into our fiscal year and add it to the calendar. Um Yeah. which I think would be the simplest way forward. But that's what I was going to say is I don't know if it's policy as much as procedure, but Okay, that's good. Yeah. Um, and I I also had a question that for you um A.J. I almost called you Mr. Crabill again. So, when aligning our budget to our goals and guardrails, our vision and values, um does does every single item, and I see in the in the tool that you set or that you gave us, um it says it says initiatives. Does
137every item have to fit within one of our goals or are initiatives different from our goals? I'm laughing cuz you keep I'm laughing cuz you keep saying like light bulbs have to be on. Still, you still have to buy a light bulb. So, I'm giggling [laughter] in my head. Th- Th- This is a really really important question. Um, the reality is it takes a lot of resources just to keep the basic fundamentals of a school system operating. It takes a lot of resources. So, even before any kids ever walk into a building, before even any teachers walk into a building, you've already burned through a massive percentage of your uh budget just having systems in place, just having buses ready to go, just having the electricity turned on, uh just having, you know, food purchased,
138uh books purchased, light bulbs purchased. Uh, like there there's [clears throat] there's an a massive massive amount of coordination of effort that takes place and no child has even walked through the door yet. So, the reality is that in most of our budgets, there Here's a couple of things to think about. One, about 85% of most school boards' budgets is personnel. Staff. Employees. >> um with uh staff do you happen to know is that is that right around that percentage for you all? Yeah, we're sitting around 82%. Yeah. Yeah, and so across the nation for all of our large urban school systems that it's pretty much the same number somewhere around 85% of the budget is humans. Um and while a large bulk of that is your instructional staff, there's a ton of that that
139you know you've got food service, you got you know transportation service, you you got all these other services um that aren't directly in the classroom. And so there is a huge infrastructure that school systems uh invest in that isn't directly aligned to any of your goals and guardrails, but it's just uh what we call the whirlwind of the the larger body of effort that is necessary just to keep the organization alive. You know, so for example, somewhere out there uh today somebody is working on cutting checks for teachers. That is not directly aligned to accomplish your goals. Stop cutting checks for teachers, see what happens. And so um and so there there's just all of this infrastructure that having organizations. So when we [clears throat] talked to your staff about it, we talked about it
140in terms of the big rocks. So [snorts] um you've all probably heard this uh idea your superintendent can send you the video uh that we shared with the staff, you know, of there's actually this really awesome YouTube video um where you put the you see a [clears throat] lady she puts all the sand in first and then she puts in the medium size rocks into the vase and then there's not enough room for the big rocks. You all familiar with this analogy? Um but then she scoops to the edge of the table and there's another empty vase that identical vase identical identical, you know, uh containers with, you know, sand and big rocks and small rocks. She puts the big rocks in first. Then she puts in the medium rocks and then all of the
141sand actually fits in. It's the exact same amount of material, but when you put the sand in first, you can't fit in the big rocks. When you put the big rocks in first, you can fit in the sand. Um and so again, you might ask the superintendent to see that video. It's a great video, but what it helps speaks to is the reality that there's a lot of sand um and you're going to need that sand, you know, cuz it's helping sustain your organization. The real message of budgeting is don't put the sand in first. So that's the that's the first thing I'm going to think about like what matters is what are we putting in the budget first? And the first priorities for resource allocation should be the big rocks. We define for your
142staff the big rocks as the initiatives directly aligned with accomplishing your goals and guardrails. As the initiatives, what are the change activities, the the change work that we're engaged in that specifically aligned to try to accomplish your goals and guardrails. We would put it out as those are the big rocks. And we would say fund those first, put those in first. Make sure that the resources that that is where your first dollar is spent. And then after that you go to the medium size rocks. These are all your other initiatives, but that aren't directly aligned to the goals and guardrails. These are the medium size rocks. You put those in next. And then there's all of the other things necessary to operate a school system. That's the sand. You pour that in last. The reality
143is when you do it this way, one, you typically have a better job of fitting more stuff in, but most importantly, you're guaranteed to fit in the big rocks. So that's the first thing you want to look for is are the big rocks funded first? Are the initiatives directly aligned with the goals and guardrails? Did the superintendent fund those? And if the superintendent can't even tell you where they are in the budget, by definition your assumption should be that they are not funded. If she can't show you where they are in the budget, you should not assume that they're in there and she just can't find them. You should assume that they're just not in there. And so the first question is where are the big rocks? Show me where are the budget are the
144initiatives aligned with goal one? Show me where are the budget are the initiatives aligned with goal two? And so on and so forth. Those are reasonable questions to ask cuz what you're really saying is show me that you put the big rocks in first. Um but then you'll have the the medium size rocks. Those are the initiatives that is work that needs to be done, but just isn't aligned with the accomplishment of the goals. And then there's everything else that we refer to as the whirlwind, all the other resources necessary. When you get down to it today, I don't know your superintendent they've been doing this work, so they may actually have a percentage sorted out. When you get down to it today, what we tell your staff is don't be surprised uh when on
145first blush somewhere in the neighborhood of, you know, 95 to 99.9% of your resources are not funding big rocks. Don't be surprised when the amount of your budget that is focused on uh initiatives aligned to your goals and guardrails, you know, takes up, you know, less than 1% and 1% or maybe two, but honestly, don't expect it to take up more than maybe three, four, five percent of the budget your first time out. Then you'll be spending the vast majority of your resources not in a aligned fashion. That's that is not desirable news, but don't think of it as bad news. Think of it as it's good that we know that now. And then guess what your expectation should be next year budget time. What should your expectation be? What somebody? Anyone? >> [laughter] >>
146A budget You let's say you let's say you find out that 1% of your budget is actually aligned to accomplishing the goals and the guardrails this year. What should your expectation be next year? Double it. No. Yeah. I'm literally guessing. Show us some evidence. Yeah, show us some type of evidence that we are increasing our investment in the goals and guardrails from one year to the next. Show us with the evidence. So this year you're asking some relatively generic questions this first year. But next year you should be able to ask, okay, help connect the dots for me. Show me the evidence that we're actually making what was the investment we made last year? Oh, we're 1%? Show me that we've moved that to 2%. Show me that we've moved that to 2.5%. Show me
147that we've moved that to 2.79%. Like show me we moved to 3.2%. Like you you're not this this is a game of inches, folks. So this isn't we're going to wake up tomorrow and 99% of the dollars will be focused on goal that's that's not realistic. One, because you just have a set amount of resources that'll be funding your the whirlwind and honestly, that's probably always going to be the majority of your budget is funding the whirlwind, funding all the stuff that it takes just to keep literally keep the lights on. But you what you should be pushing for as a governing body is show me the evidence that a escalating percentage of our resources are actually aligned with accomplishing the community's vision and values. That is what you absolutely should be looking for. That's
148what makes your question a really, really, really insightful and important question. Okay. Thank you. Uh who else? Who else? Uh thoughts or questions about an effective budget alignment process. Nobody anybody else spot, but new board members y'all have any questions or comments or things you want more information on just before we leave. Sorry, it's just a a thought. One my first time hearing about the ERP, I think and so really excited to hear about that and that it's connected to the tax bonds as well from 22. Um Jessica, thank you for asking our board member Jessica, but thank you for asking about the policy and procedure. I had written that down as well and was about to ask how we go about making these changes um final as well. And then I think my last
149question was to our CFO is if we were to change the timeline, does that still give you autonomy and your team autonomy to do what your expertise is? Great question. Yes, I believe so. Like I said, I um we we have it historically done it the way that we're doing it now, but the new system is going to help us, like I said, become more efficient, more streamlined. It's got modules in place that will help us kind of do projections out throughout the year better than what we're doing now. Thank you. Great questions. Uh any other questions or reflections before we wind up? >> I I have a comment. Um when I read the budget alignment document, effective budget alignment document and I read that um we should assume that the budget isn't in alignment
150with the goals and guardrails, that didn't make sense to me at all, but having this discussion absolutely makes me understand why that's important and how it helps students in the long run. So thank you. Yeah, and that is awkward. I I'm glad that you lift that up. I realize that comes off as awkward like why would we assume that it's not aligned? Um because you all really do have a obligation to really push and nudge your administration to test to trust, but verify um that the vision and values of the community are what is front and center, are what is that that there is an escalating percentage of the time, talent, and treasure of the school system that is aligned with the vision and values of the community. And so I realize it comes off
151as awkward for some people, so thank you for giving voice to that. Um but the oddity isn't grounded in we don't trust our superintendent. The oddity is grounded in we love our children and we have a proactive obligation to demonstrate that love in this concept context through healthy uh skepticism. Uh saying, you know, we start with the assumption that it's not aligned. Superintendent, show us the evidence that it is and and the benefits for your children and for you as public officials who will be held to account by a community uh will pay dividends. Yeah. Do you have any follow up, Berna? Okay. All right, it is >> Um uh Carol, anything else before we uh transition? I think I have goal monitoring to go over with us briefly as well. Um no, I just
152um want to ask uh the board chair and the board if they're willing to continue for another 15-20 minutes to talk about monitoring or should we put that off to another time? That's what you're reading my mind cuz I was just about to say that typically we kind of have a hard stop at 7:30 on work sessions but I will rely on the rest of the board to decide if they would like to move monitoring to another time cuz it's just kind of a review of it. And we are going to schedule some small groups too just to make sure that we're all still moving in the same direction that also could look at that but I'm open to what you guys think. 15 more minutes or another time? If it's just going to be
153a review? Yes, it's just a review. Juan, do you have an opinion? I can only speak for myself. I don't speak for the rest of the board so I would like to say maybe another time. I was not aware that we were going to stay a little bit longer. I have other things to do. Again, it does not mean that I don't care but um Yes, I I have other things to attend as well. Well, an an additional option is that Carol and I can take it upon ourselves to meet with folks in groups of two or three to conduct the same review in small groups that we would have done in a full room if that's helpful. Is that agreeable? Looking, looking, looking, does that work? Okay. I'm getting a lot of head nods
154so I'm thinking we're going to Sorry, coach Carol. >> [laughter] >> We're going to opt for our time tonight, I believe. It looks like. Thank you for letting us continue to be of service. We love love love working with this board and with the senior leadership team and so it's just the joy of our hearts to be of support to you. Anytime you need anything, don't hesitate to reach out. Any of you individual board members, Craig has our contact information so if you don't have it already, you can have our cell phone numbers. Anytime you want to text, call, you have questions, we're basically your full-time tech support system. Reach out anytime. Madam Chair, back to you. Thank you very much. Okay, so if there's no wrap-up comments from any board members, I'm going to
155ask our newest board member to make the motion to adjourn so she can officially be on the record. I move that we adjourn the meeting. Is there Is there a second? Second. Okay, I think Juan was louder than Jessica so we'll go with Juan today. Thank you, AJ and Carol. Call the vote, please. All in favor, say I. I. Any opposed, say nay. Hearing none, the motion carries. We are adjourned. >> Thank you all. Have a good night. Thank you.