November 3, 2025 | OKCPS Board Meeting

001All right, welcome. Looks Hey, Carol. Looks like we have the live stream up. Before I call the meeting to order, on your laptop, you have the board of education website. You have a click. If you look at it, has live stream. Sometimes that makes it easier to see. And here on these, and then down on the bottom right, black is red. And if you click on the Adobe sign, it pulls up the effective policy uh for leadership and completing a board committee uh diet. So you'll have that on at your uh seat. You have board policy manual printed out. You have the student focused outcome governance printed out. And the two items to the discussion today is on board transition. So all right, call the meeting to order, please. >> Thank you, Madame Chair. And

002if everyone would please take a minute to silence your cell phone, we would appreciate that. If you need to have an extended conversation with the person next to you or on your phone, please do so in the lobby. Please note, spontaneous comments from the floor are not permitted. Individuals who exhibit disruptive or distracting behavior will be asked to leave. And individuals who come to the podium to address the board are asked to please introduce yourself by name and title. And if outside of OKCPS, please also include your organization. With that, I will call the role. Paula Lewis >> here. >> Carol Thompson >> present. >> Lori Bowman >> present. >> Jessica Sephuentes. Dana Meister. Mike Shelton. >> A key. >> Juan Lacona >> present. >> And Maganey. We have a quorum. >> Thank you. Welcome.

003All right. So we will get started with uh let's see AJ's on >> I can't see okay so AJ's on >> is there confusion with the links Carol supposed to be on as well >> are I know are we waiting for Carol >> you Ask AJ, >> Mr. Crayville, if you would be so kind to take your mic off of mute and say hello to the board. >> Good evening. >> All right. Are are we waiting for Coach Carol, AJ, or are you going to be the one on today? >> Uh, I think it's probably me. >> Okay. All right. Holden, I will turn the meeting over to you. We're at 2.01 discussion on the OKCPS board's transition to future-driven student outcomes. >> Uh, so board members, do you have um with you a document

004called effective policy leadership? >> Yes. >> All right. So, I want to walk through this uh some of the ideas in this document. >> I'm sorry. >> Just one second. We're gonna make sure everyone has It's in the Adobe. Awesome. Everyone's good. Bottom right. It looks like a little a two PDFs. >> Okay. >> All right. All right, we're good. Everybody has it up, AJ? >> All right, we good to go. >> Yes. >> Okay. Uh so board members, uh we will uh dive in, but this pre-eread document that was sent out to you um I think last week uh contains much of what we'll be covering. So, uh, as you have additional questions beyond tonight, obviously you can contact, uh, our team, um, and we gladly walk, uh, through this and further details with

005you. Um, but you have access to most of what you'll need. Uh, so the first big question is why do school boards have policy? What is the purpose that policy is trying to fill? Why do school boards adopt policy at all? Anybody want to answer? >> They exist to improve student outcomes. >> The school district exists to do. But the sole purpose of school systems is so children actually learn so they can have access to the knowledge and skills they need to live a choice life. That's why the school system exists. And so policy has to support that. Um but why bother having policy? Um, couldn't the district do just fine without any policies? >> AJ, this is Mike Shelton. But, uh, the district has policies to, uh, to they're the rules. They're the rules

006and how we govern ourselves and set the parameters, the uh, the guard rails that we uh have talked so much about to ensure that uh, we know how to operate. >> Yeah. Mr. Mr. Shelton, the the the problem that you room schoolhouse board and because of that you absolutely have to see across an organization as large as yours, you get out. If this was just a one room schoolhouse, then you probably wouldn't need to all book a policy organization. uh that if there is clarity about the vision and values of the community, you need to write it down so that everybody knows what that clarity is. You can't just assume everybody will know. Um and so this is what school boards do is they listen for the vision of values of the community and they

007write that down. Um and the written version of the community's vision of values is what we refer to as a policy manual. It serves as the rule book, the guide so that staff and community know how the school system operates. Uh, anybody else uh questions about why policy exists? Anyone else questions about why school districts have policy or what the purpose of policy is? >> Madam Chair? >> Yes. >> Uh, yes. I I have a question about this. Um, so when you're asking this question, why do school boards have policies? Are you referring to I guess before we we became a part of the CGCS framework or or now that >> any so yeah so as long as your school systems existed you probably have some amount of policies um and I suspect long after

008all of us are still involved with OBCPS you there probably still will be policies and so anytime the board um writes language essentially that is policy. So anytime the board writes something down and then votes to adopt it, you're saying >> oh yeah, >> the school system is now bound by this is a unique authority that the school board has um is that you when you all act adopt you know whatever it is that you've written down it's policy. um and the folks who are working in the school system. >> Yes. >> To honor that policy. >> Perfect. Yes. Because I think um this question I just asked I mean it would depend on the time period. So before we became a part of the CGCS framework I mean I would say pol some of

009our policies and this would also apply afterwards too but some of our policies exist because they're state law. uh we would like uniformity across all of our schools and um maybe there were um not student outcomes necessarily that uh maybe we needed to create some type of policy to direct um and and so it was directing those maybe inputs outputs I guess is what the new the new language is that that we're using but according to the manual there were four things now that uh policies our schoolboard policies should include um four section s and so one was to to be the goals the guard rails I mean to delegate the relationship between the staff and the board and also govern governing so policies that will um kind of dictate or or speak about how

010we interact with each other um with other board members and whatnot. So, uh, just kind of, you know, how I read before, you know, we had this pre-ereading, um, I learned a little bit about, I mean, why the framework of CGCS and and what policies we should be enacting. So, depending on the time frame, I think our definition of why do school boards have policies for OKCPS in particular has changed. >> Thank you. I I I I would suspect that probably not so much that the rationale for policies changed as much as what you all are school system is a desire to be increasingly focused on our children learning. Um and so there's any number of things that you could choose to focus your energy on as a board. You could choose to have uh

011spend a whole session um writing policy language about um what type of gravel has to be used in your parking lots. I suspect you don't have a policy about this or at least I haven't found one yet. Um why don't you uh dictating the type of gravel that should be or the type of apples that should be served for lunch? Why haven't you all spent time creating those policies? because those are certainly policies that are within your authority to create. Why haven't you done so? >> Our policies are typically related to state law and more operational type things like bigger bigger topics. Um >> well, the gravel that's in your parking lots and the apples that you feed kids are both operational. So why don't you have policies about those? I don't really represent I

012mean in my I've never put a policy out there like that because it doesn't necessarily even speak to like the community values. So like community values around uniforms may be a thing or community values around how we oversee B bond might be a thing but not necessarily the gravel. That's what RFPs are for. >> Madam Chair, >> anybody else? >> Yeah, >> why not? Um, so, uh, yes, this is Jessica. And I want to say that it's also kind of out of our scope. Like, um, we don't really necessarily know about gravel or what's the best or maybe best prices necessarily. And so, it's it's almost out of our scope. Like, we don't necessarily have to dictate that specific thing. >> So, so here's an important distinction. I I really appreciate the the point that

013you make is like that there's some expertise involved in gravel selection and I don't have and I don't think we as a board have it but I do want to push back on one thing you said. You said like this is kind of out of our scope. So basically everything that happens in the school system you all as a board are accountable for. So somebody's going to pick the gravel, somebody's going to pick the type of apples um that are servedly accountable for all of that. Um, but even though you're and there's no as long as you serve on the school board, you're fully accountable for everything that happens at OKCPS. If you don't want to be accountable, there's only one real accountable. Um, and and so you all remain accountable for everything. But the

014point that you just made, Jesse, is that there are things that you all choose to lean into to lean into. So it would be perfectly legal, I suspect. But I don't see you all I don't hear you all tonight lining up to adopt one because what I've heard from you all in previous board meetings repeatedly just over and over and over is that what you really are most concerned with is our children learning. And if you were convinced that a gravel policy was the key to early childhood literacy. I'm sure you'd adopt one. But the fact that you're not doesn't mean you couldn't. It means you've chosen not to. What would be the cost to spend time adopting a gravel policy? You have the authority to it. You you're accountable for all of the parking

015lots regardless, but you travel policy even though you could. What would be the cost of doing so? Why are you all really choosing not to do there there's a benefit to not bothering to have one? Um what would you be giving up if you spent the time to create one? student outcome. >> What do you mean by that? >> So, we focus on gradules and apples. That's not really focused on student outcome. We need to focus student education instead of a piece of road or or you know what kind of apples or oranges the kids going to get for lunch. >> Yeah, that that's that's exactly the challenge is it's an opportunity cost is that every minute you spend on one thing is a minute you can't spend on other things. And so, Juan's point

016is we could spend time on gravel. We really could, you know, and you pro is it anybody in the day, you you probably have some expertise in this or you know who to call. Um but anyone any time is time that you're not spending on are the children in your buildings actually learning more um in ways that's going to set them up to live a choicefilled life. reason and that reason alone that being really the the solitary basis you all have chosen to focus on some things and not focus on other things that is the nature of the is it's a conversation about policy which could is really expansive and can mean anything and encompass every the organization but then a recognition that you all choose not to do every single thing in the organization

017because you want to make a huge impact in the area you've decided matters most are that's the nature of tonight's conversation. Um what we'll present to you is that there are really five different uh buckets that we'll talk about of what policy could be about. And we're going to submit to you that the four of these buckets are really things that the board and only the board can speak to and that would be valuable for the board of how do we create a school system that focuses on student outcomes. And then we'll identify the fifth bucket which is essentially everything else. Um and then talks policies um and you all will have to make some decisions about okay so where land which are these five buckets. So the first two buckets are really easy. the

018first bucket of policy and again only the board can adopt this staff can adopt this only the board can adopt this first bucket and that really speak about what's the vision of the its children to know and be able to do why is it that only the board can adopt this nobody else possibly adopt this policy >> do what >> uh what's it doing just I mean I I'm being serious Like is it cutting out? >> Okay. >> It just connections. Is is it on his AJ side? Okay. AJ, I guess it's cutting in and out. >> Just a little like every sixth like every let's say sixth or seventh word it seems like is fading. Um so I think you need to like at least repeat that last question. >> Okay. Give me just

019one moment. >> So, I just switched WiFi networks. Is this any better? >> Repeat that last part and we'll tell you. >> Talk a little bit. Uh, I just switched to Wi-Fi networks. Is this any better? >> Yes. So far so good. If you'll repeat that last thing about why the board is the only one who can um adopt the goals. >> Yeah. Why is the board the So there's of all the policies out there, we're going to talk about policy in five different buckets. Um, and the first of those five buckets is goals. Um, goals describe what the school system is going to be focused on over the next five years regarding uh what students should know and be able to do. Why is it that only the board can adopt goal policies? Why

020can't the superintendent or why couldn't someone else say what the goals for the system are? >> The board is the expert on the community. Your voice for the community. >> This is about expertise is that you all have expertise that the superintendent lacks, that the staff lacks, that other members of the community lack, that you were selected by the community to represent its vision for what a student should know and be able to do. And so the first bucket of policy is goal is goal policies that describe what is the school system going to be focused on regarding student learning for the next five years. It doesn't mean it's the only thing the school system will do um but it certainly means this is what the school system will be focused on as a priority.

021The second bucket of policies is guard routes and these really represent the values of the community the non-negotiables that have to be honored while the districts are on its way to accomplishing the goals. And again just like the goals because you represent the vision and values of the community only the board uh can really say uh what the guard rails should be. So that's the first and second bucket the goals and the guardrails. The third bucket of policy um is delegation. This is where the board says what is our relationship as a board with our direct reports which how many direct reports do you all have? >> One. There has been a time that we split. We There has been a time that the attorney has reported to both the superintendent and the board, but

022currently that's not the case, but we have had that in the past. >> And so if you went back to that, then there would be two direct reports and that means your delegation policies would have to cover both of those relationships. Right now, your delegation policies only have to cover one relationship. That's relationship between the board and its direct one direct report, the superintendent. And again, only the board gets to decide about delegation policies. The superintendent doesn't get to decide what the relationship between the board and superintendent is. I certainly encourage you to ask her uh for insights. Uh but at the end of the day, the board and the board alone uh has the authority and to really say here's what that relationship should be like. The fourth bucket of policy that again only

023the board can adopt because the board is the community's representative is what's the relationship between the board and the community and the board in itself and the board and its board members. It's really it's a different way of saying how do we as a board operate in relationship to our community and each other. Um and again this is the governing bucket of policy and only the board can adopt governing policies that say how will the board function in relationship to ourselves in relationship to our community. So those are the four buckets of policy and the unique thing that binds them together is that the board and only the board have the expertise to adopt policies in these four areas. Govern goals, guard rails, delegation and governance. What questions do you have about these four buckets

024of policies that the board and the board alone has the expertise to adopt a policy in? >> Any questions about these four buckets? Anyone? I have a question. So, are you saying that because we are the legislative body or of the that we are we are the policy makers. You're not saying that our expertise is in schools. It's just in passing policies. Correct? Is that what you're saying? >> Uh yeah. Yeah. So, I'm defin Thank you for that clarification. I'm definitely not saying that your expertise in schools. I'm definitely saying that your expertise is in representing the vision and values of the community. That's correct. Um, and as such, you are uh the legislative body uh for the school system uh because the community selected you to be that. And for that reason, these four

025buckets of policy are unique from all other policy. There's, as you're thinking about it right now, you're probably thinking of policies that don't fit into these four buckets. That's because what is unique about these four buckets is the board and the board alone can adopt these because no one else has the expertise. No one else was selected by the community to determine what the community's vision is. No one else was selected by the community determine the values. No one else was selected by a community to determine the relationship between the board and its direct reports and nobody else was selected by the community to define the relationship between the board and the community and the board in itself. these four buckets of policy um have to be owned fully by the board and no one

026else can step in and do that. It's they are non-elable. Any other questions about these four buckets of policies because we're going to distinguish this from all other policy uh which is largely delatable that there are other experts uh who would carry more expertise than the board. So for example, you mentioned the board is not experts on how to operate schools that that's absolutely correct. So certainly there's going to be times when the board chooses to delegate policymaking authority on issues uh for which others have expertise but in these four areas the board and the board alone carries the expertise and so the board really can't delegate it out. The board needs to own these four areas itself. >> Any other questions about these four areas of policy as distinct from all other policy? >>

027Yes, madam chair. >> Yes. >> Um yes I have a question AJ on guard rails. Um yeah, since this is uh for the superintendent, how how does uh a board typically hold the superintendent accountable for these guard rails? >> Yeah, that's a really important question because even though you all set the policy, the goals and the guardrail policies, you then delegate operational authority to your superintendent to implement these policies. And so the way that you'd hold her accountable is you'd actually evaluate her baseline. So, uh, on a go forward basis, you all will begin the process of evaluating your superintendent based on the goals and guards. Now, we generally encourage you to do so after she's you've provided them to her for a year. So, it doesn't make sense to adopt them last month and

028then evaluate her on them this month uh because she hasn't had time to implement them. But from the time that you adopt the this board voted to adopt your goals and guardrails, 12 months after that and from there forward, you should absolutely evaluate your superintendent solely based on the district's accomplishment of the goals and honoring of the guardrails. And that's one of the key ways that you hold her accountable for actually following ensuring that these policies are followed throughout the district. So a really important question of how do you maintain accountability uh back to your community? Part of that is you evaluate your superintendent based on it. Other questions about these four buckets of there's there's a lot uh a lot to know. We'll dig into a lot of it, but other questions about these

029four buckets of policy, goals, guard rails, delegation, and governance. All right. So, if you wanted to have a policy that described what the board expects the superintendent to do in her function as superintendent, which of those four buckets would it likely go in? Goals, guardrails, delegation, or governance, and why? If you wanted to have a policy to describe what the board expects superintendent to do in her role of superintendent, which of those four buckets would it go into and why? feels like delegation because we would already have the goals codified and the guard rails codified in policy but I don't know anybody else >> I said yeah go for it >> I was thinking guard rails and delegation but I I don't know >> is there a multiple choice I feel like there's multiple in

030the could be multiple of these I think that's our best stabs at it. AJ Carol is still there. >> I don't know if he froze. Maybe >> if you're going to place that in one of the four buckets, which bucket would you place it in and why? >> Well, sorry, you must have cut out. So, I said it felt like it was delegation because we would already have policies about the goals and guardrails. Lori thought it could be guard rails and or delegation. Carol and Jessica said guard rails. >> Ah, so this is a this is a great great conversation. So it sounds like most people are either guard rails or important important part of the conversation. So if you have something that you want the superintendent to do as part of her job as

031superintendent, >> then that would go in delegation. >> Why wouldn't that go into guard rails? How are guardrails written? Anybody recall >> things she can't do, >> right? >> Yeah. with guard rails is they're about what this what is off limits, things that the school system can't do um in pursuit of the of the goals. And so if there's something that you wanted her to do as part of her job, then that's something you'd have to specifically delegate to her, that being the delegation section of the policy manual. The guardrails say what is out of bounds. The delegation section really talks about what what are the obligations the superintendent has as part of her duties. And so that would go in. Um if the board wanted to have a policy about um how committees function,

032which of the four buckets would that be in and why? >> I'd say governance. Anybody else? >> Yep. Governing. >> Governance. >> Uh why governing? uh one >> visions and values under governance, right? >> So certainly all uh all four of these buckets are really a reflection of the community's values. Um and for that reason that's why the board has the expectation happen that the the goals are about the vision and these other three buckets guard rails delegation and governing are really about the community's values of how they want to see the school system function and so that's why the board has to adopt them. Um but then further you have to ask yourselves fall in and if the board is talking about how it functions as a body then that's in the governing section

033of policy and so these are the four section of policy and part of effective policy leadership is first and foremost making sure that the board is actually owning these four sections of policy that you all actually know what is in these parts of policy and that you have adopted anything else that you need to adopt. Um, but it's also to clarify that there is a fifth bucket of policy that I'll just call for now other. So, what all goes into the other bucket of policy? Somebody give me an example of a policy that might um be other that that isn't goals, it's not guardrails, it's not delegation, it's not governing. And so it'd be something other than those four. >> Um a policy that was um passed by our state legislature regarding electronic uh communication

034between teachers and coaches and students. >> Absolutely. U so that does not sound like it is about goals. Um you could have a guard rule about it but you don't. Um, it's definitely not about delegation of authority between the board and the superintendent. It's that not about that relationship. And it doesn't sound like it's about the relationship between the board and the community or how the board functions, the board itself. And so, yeah, that sounds like that would be something other than those four buckets of policy. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Why is it valuable to notice that something doesn't fit into those four buckets of policy? Why is it why is it valuable to to pay attention to the fact that of all the policies you can have, some of them will fit into these

035four buckets and some of them will uh be something other than these four buckets. Why is that worth noting? If I remember from one of these trainings, the ones in those four first four buckets, we would be monitoring or reviewing at least once every four years or quarterly, I can't remember that exactly, but somewhere in there because there are ones that are very specific to the community's vision um and the governance and delegation model. But the other ones that are state statute, those fall into just what you have to have at some level. >> Yeah, the definitely We would encourage you to treat these four buckets of policy differently and that because these represent the vision and values of the community, we'd encourage you to be making sure that you are u monitoring these um

036at least once a year and reviewing them at least once every term of a board member. at least once every um and that is a special amount of treatment that you would apply to them because they represent the vision and values of the community that that this is a special uh set of policies that that you all have identified and that only you all could possibly adopt. Uh anybody else? Why might it be important to notice that some policies fit into these four buckets and then there are other policies that don't fit into these four question? Why else would that be valuable to notice? question. >> I just need to get a little clarity. The the language that we're talking about today is going to come back in front of the board to vote on.

037Is that correct? Or is >> this this this is a training? >> It it's just all this language is just >> it's a training. This is this is the what he's using to use as the as the training >> for >> Okay. >> Yeah. for us. Yeah, I I apologize. I I intended to all >> I'm sure I'm sure it's me and so everybody up here probably knew that except me, but uh I do I do have a couple of questions. Uh >> yeah, >> I'll I'll come back. Go ahead. >> No, that that was an important point and I should have started off by saying there's definitely in the night there there's no action to be taken. Tonight is just a training u for the board to have time to be in discernment around

038how it wants to govern um and to have shared language about how it goes about governing. >> Okay. And so I do have a question. >> That is all that we're doing tonight. >> Okay. Thank you. Can I ask Madam Chair? Okay. Hey, uh I I uh a couple of times I've brought up Oklahoma's law, specifically on Oklahoma City public schools that gives the chair uh full authority to kind of govern what happens uh with the uh Oklahoma City public school board. My question is is when you have that state law and there's no other state, there's no other school district in the United States, I believe, that has that law. Is that correct? So, I don't know about every other school district. I do know none of the other districts I've worked within in

039Oklahoma are subject to that that I that I've worked with >> in in Oklahoma in title 70 section 105 I mean section 5107b it empowers the the board chair uh to do all agenda uh items. My question to you is does that piece of governance and I assume that it would be in the governance governance section >> I assume that it would be in this document correct? >> Yes. Yes, sir. >> Well, not this is a template. This is >> I mean I'm just saying that because it's a policy and I'm pointing to the but once we get the document that that rule that allows the board chair to have all power uh uh that will go in the document so all board members know that we just we're just part of the show instead

040of we don't have as much input as as the board chair is that >> yeah whatever whatever aspects of how the board functions that are codified in state law absolutely overwrites local policymaking. That is correct. That the that the board is subject to state law. And so if the board had a if the state passed a new law tomorrow that said you can only um that you can only feed children pears, you can't feed them apples, that would overrun any policies you have about feeding kids apples. Um and so that is correct is that whatever. And so I don't I'm not an attorney, definitely not an expert on the laws of Oklahoma, but it is correct that whatever state law there is definitely supersedes local policy. That is correct. >> But have you ever with

041your expertise of student uh focused governance? I'm curious. Have you ever dealt with a school district that had this kind of makeup of the board that gave that board? >> No, the uh I hadn't thought about it until you asked it last time and so I went and looked and there are several other boards um that we work with nationwide where the board chair is selected separately from how the board is selected. Um, so that's not unusual, but even in those cases, I didn't find one. The question you asked was, does the board chair solely set an agenda? I didn't find any examples of that um anywhere else in the country. >> Um, madam chair. >> Yes. Um, I have some discourse on that. Um, I think I like your question, Mike. um because it

042kind of relates to just relationships with each other and I mean how we interact as a board to each other and then of course we have other things with the community and so um correct me if I'm wrong but this is a state law that OKCPS chooses to be a part of. Is that correct? Like we don't have to have we don't have to function this way as a board. >> You're exactly correct. It was Oklahoma. There was only two law when it passed in the year 2000. Uh the law passed the state of Oklahoma, the house, the senate, the governor signed it into law. And because of that, um there was two school districts that they wrote into the law that could have adopted it. Tulsa chose not to adopt it. Their board members

043get to be a part of the agenda process. the discussions, Oklahoma City chose uh to give all power to the school board chair and it and it because of what we chose, it limits our ability to engage certain processes. I think that would be I mean depending on what the board thinks I think that could be worth uh just taking a look at seeing benefits of of either system and maybe seeing which one would benefit student outcomes the most. Um I think that's that's where the conversation could take us. I mean if if the rest of my colleagues deem so but uh just just as a point um but yeah thank you for that question Mr. Shelton. >> I would agree with you. Other questions about any of these four buckets of policy? We've been

044talking about governing policy. Uh thank you Mike and Jessica. We've been talking about governing policy. Any other uh questions about any of these four buckets of policy? Goals, guard rails, delegation, or governing? Any other questions about any of these four before we continue? >> I I have a question if that's okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. Uh yes. So I when we're talking about these five buckets um so I'm I'm kind of confused as to which policies we are considering. Is it all 180 or 90? I can't remember how many policies we have as a school district. Um or are the numbers or I'm sorry are the four first buckets are those relating to like our B-01 B-2? Um, so I'm just kind of confused if if when we're talking about policies, are we are

045we talking about um the ones that the that the board is going to pretty much take a hold of and be accountable for, are we talking about all of them for the entire district? Are we talking just about board policy? >> So B our B policies are are board governance policies. For example, B-07 that passed in 2017 said that any board member who wanted to put something on the agenda could find three other board members to send a letter to the chair and it would automatically go onto the agenda. So that's our board governing policies under B. And then there's all kinds of others. I don't know how many 180 but the B only have 12 is my understanding I believe or is it >> something like that? >> 16 16. >> So would these

046four buckets just expand B? That's I think that's the question Jessica is asking. Would some of these get replaced with the governance policies? >> So, so the first task uh and we're about to dive into this evening is just identifying for existing policies uh which of these five delegation and if they don't fall into one of those then bucket for all all the other policies. The first question we're going to try to answer is which of these uh four five buckets do they fall into? Um and then once the board has determined is this something that we can't possibly delegate because we are the experts on it because it's about the community's vision and values um about the prioritized uh community's vision and values rather. Um then then the board has to make some decisions

047around okay so what how do we handle these other policies uh where the board isn't uh the automatic expert time do we want to focus on them? So for example going back to talking about gravel if you found that there was a gravel policy part of the question that we're really pushing you to wrestle with this evening is how much of your time do you want to spend on that policy um and at what cost? The board absolutely has the authority to say, you know what, we want to have a gravel policy and we want to spend three board meetings a year focused on the type of gravel in our parking lots. The board has the authority you could do that. You choose not to though. And the reason you choose not to is because

048it's at the cost of focusing on whether or not students are learning. The time that you spend on gravel is time that you aren't spending on student learning. And so that's the that is the thing that you'll have to wrestle with with all of the other policies that aren't one of these four buckets is how much time do we want to spend on these? And if we want to spend less time on them, then what changes we would we have to make and how we govern to be able to responsibly do so. So that's part of where we're going. But the first thing that we'll need to do is just get a little bit practice with being able to identify um which bucket does a given policy fall into. Other questions about these? We'll now

049talk about five buckets of policies. Other questions reflection of these before we go into an activity of trying to identify them. >> Looks like heads are shaking. No. >> All right. And I am going to share my screen. Are you able to see my screen? >> No. I mean, we can see that it's black. Okay. There we go. Now we see it. >> All right. Um um can somebody read u the fir item number one? Policy statement number one. >> The superintendent will not propose major decisions to the board without first having engaged students, parents, community and staff. >> All right. So which of those five buckets goals, guardrails, governing delegation or other? Which of those five buckets would you classify that as? >> Guardil shot. >> Yeah. >> Guardrails. Guardrail. >> Yeah. >> Why?

050Why do you say guardrail? >> Something she can't do or he or she could not do. >> Yeah. This is attempting to describe what is a prioritized area of the community's values that is out of bounds. It's off limits. And so for that reason, this is something that looks like a a guardrail policy. Mhm. >> Um, how about the second uh policy statement number two? Which of the five buckets would you put that in? >> A goal. >> Yeah. >> Um, this is a smart goal. So, it has an ending beginning date. It has a percentage um what the population of students that they're trying to target. >> Yeah. And for all those reasons, this really looks like a goal policy. really looks like what is something that we want our students to know or

051be able to do. Uh that's really a prioritized version of the community's vision for our students. How about the third one? What type of policy statement is the third one? >> Delegation. >> All right. Say more about delegation. >> Um because it directs the district to do something. It's the district shall provide. >> All right. Um, who is the nature of delegation between? >> For for it to be a delegation policy, who does it have to be between? >> It has to be between the board and >> the s so >> and and one of the board's direct reports. That's correct. >> Okay. So, the superintendent. So in order for it to be a delegation policy, it has to describe what is the relationship between the board and one of its direct reports. >> Okay.

052So then does this mean this is an other? >> Why would you say other? >> Because it's directing the district, not the superintendent. >> Yeah. Um and so it's it's not about a goal. >> Yeah. to do. It's not a guardrail. It's not saying what the superintendent is prohibited from doing. Um, it's not governing because it's not really talking about the relationship between the board and itself for the board and community. And it's not delegation because it's not talking about the relationship between the board and its direct report, the superintendent. So, if it's not any of those, then by default, we say this is one of those other policies. Um, and the moment we say that, we're not saying that it's an unimportant policy. was just pointing out that it it is not relying on

053the expertise that only the board has that it's now relying on expertise that somebody else might have. Who else might have expertise in the area of this third uh policy statement if not the board? Who else might have expertise about this? >> Like you mean like the internal academic team? >> Yeah. Yeah. That could be your internal academic team, could be the superintendent herself, it could be any number of the experts that you all have on um who know something about interventions, who know something about assessment, um who know something about academic standards uh at grade level. And so one of the things that the board recognizes that, okay, this isn't one of these four where we are the sole experts. This is one of those other ones where someone else in our organization is

054an expert. Uh, let's do one more together and then I'm going to have you do some on your own. How about number four? Which of the five buckets does number four fall into? >> I would say that's delegation. >> Why do you say delegation? says the superintendent. Um it describes what they are and what they're responsible for. >> Yeah, this is explicitly describing the relationship between the board and superintendent. The board is delegating to the superintendent the role of being a primary professional adviser um and responsible for all these various areas of operations that are described. Uh so this is definitely a textbook example of a delegation policy. It's describing what is the relationship between the board and the superintendent. All right. So, we've looked at 1, 2, 3, and four, but I'm going to

055scroll up. Um, and can you see 5 through 11? >> Yes. >> So, take just a moment. Uh, we'll talk through these as well, but just take a moment on your own pen and paper at your desk. Um, and just jot down for 5 through 11, which of those five buckets would you categorize this as? Is this goals, guard rails, delegation, governing, or is this one of the other policies that isn't one of those four? Take a few moments and just scratch down your own paper. How would you classify which of those five buckets would you put each of these in? And then we'll talk about it in a few minutes. >> Madam Chair. >> Yes. >> If I may, I just want to share with the members. Our IT staff loaded up the Zoom

056window on your laptop. So that should make it easier for you to look at that text on your laptop as opposed to looking at the monitor. live stream. Sorry, Beggar Pardon. Live stream which has the Zoom displayed. >> Okay. So, go to a YouTube link, right? Is that what you're talking about? >> Should be up there on top, I think. >> Okay. >> So, go to your >> If any members need assistance, we have outstanding IT support here available. And you can make it full screen. >> Go to live. >> Where is live? >> Click on live. >> Thank you, brother. >> You're a lifesaver. >> I got it. >> Got it. Okay. Make it full screen. Got it. Good job. >> You're welcome. No, you're fine. Give you a couple more minutes. All right.

057Number five. Which of the five buckets did you pick for policy statement number five? This is at the top of the screen. Which which bucket did you pick for this? >> Go. Are you on one? >> I chose governance. >> I chose other. Anybody else? >> I chose governing. Governing. Uh >> why governance? I think I'm not sure if this relates to the community, but it kind of feels like it. So that's that's why I chose governing. But yeah, that was my thought process. Yes, this is an important part is that your governing section of policies describe the relationship between the board and its community as well as describes the relationship between the board and itself and the board and its members. So, it describes how do we as a board engage with our community

058but also describes how do we as a board engage with ourselves and what are the what are the norms of behavior that we'll adopt as a board. For that reason, five is a textbook example of a governing policy. That's absolutely the buck the one of the five buckets that I'd slide that into. How about number six? Which bucket would you put number six in? >> Other. >> Put other. >> Um because it doesn't fit into any of the other categories. >> Yeah, that's exactly why I put in other. It's very very much literally the definition of it uh is that it's not clearly talking about what is the community's prioritized vision for what the school system needs to make sure that students know and are able to do. So it's not a goal. It's not

059one of the prioritized values of the community that you've adopted as one of your guard rails. Um and so it's doesn't fit there. It's not uh describing the relationship between the board and its direct reports. So it's not delegation. is not describing the relationship between the board board and itself or the well it's not governing and so since it's not any of those then this would be another policy and all that suggests is there's probably someone else in your organization who has a deep expertise in this area uh who in your organization might have expertise in this area >> um are HR >> yeah probably somebody in HR uh knows an awful lot about this particular area Um and so where the four main buckets really the board and only the board has the expertise

060for anything that falls into other one of the key elements of that is it suggest that there's there has to be somebody else in the organization who has expertise in the area and in this case yeah probably be somebody in the human resources department. Uh how about number seven? Which bucket did you put number seven in? >> Goals. >> Yeah, that one's pretty straightforward. That's a goal. Talk about what what do we expect students to know or be able to do? Absolutely. Uh number eight, >> delegation. >> Why don't you say delegation? >> Uh so this is something that we would like the superintendent to do uh or a board would like a superintendent to do. So delegation. >> All right. Um so this is this is a tougher one. absolutely saying that the superintendent

061has to provide programs. So that is a direct tell that it's definitely not what >> guardrail. >> Yeah. So most people would accidentally stumble upon this. Oh, this must be a guardrail. Uh but it's not actually guardrail because it's not saying what the superintendent can't do. This one is actually saying what the superintendent shall do. But it's still trickier than that because It's >> describing the relationship between the board and the superintendent. I'm sorry to say what? >> I don't think we have anything else on that. I think >> I think we're stumped on that one. AJ, >> my my question for number eight is, is it describing the relationship between the board and the superintendent? >> No, it is not. And for that reason, it is actually not a delegation policy. So, it's not

062a guardrail policy. Uh even though that's where most people would go, you all weren't tricked by that. You sniffed out pretty quickly. It's not talking about what's off limits to superintendent. So it's not a guardrail policy. So then question is what is it? So the next question is well it's saying what the superintendent should do. So maybe it's a delegation policy. But for it to be delegation policy, it needs to be describing what's the relationship between the board and the superintendent. >> And this is not. So that would make number eight what? other other >> other that would make number eight have expertise in the area of number eight >> governing. >> Well, no it's not governing because it's not talking about the relationship between the only thing we had left. >> Yeah. Well, it's

063not but it's also not describing the relationship between the board and the community. So, so it's not governing. So, that puts it in the other bucket. The moment something's in the other bucket, the question you should be asking yourselves is, okay, so then who has expertise in this area? So, who might have expertise in this area? >> Superintendent and her team. >> Yeah. Uh, most certainly the superintendent would, but you'd really expect um that there's some people on her cabinet um and other director level folks. U frankly, your your principles are probably going to have a lot of expertise um in in this particular area. Uh but yeah, number eight is a challenge and and again the key thing here is it's not saying what the superintendent shall not do. So it's not a guar

064and it's not saying what the relationship between the board and the superintendent is. So it's not delegation. That's and so by process of elimination that makes it other. How about number nine? It's >> guardrail. Guardil >> number nine is definitely a guardrail. It actually says what the superintendent shall not do. Now, so let's compare and contrast real quick. Uh, number eight, number nine. Number eight says what the superintendent shall do. Number nine says what the superintendent shall not do. Why is what the superintendent shall not do something that the board has expertise in, but what the superintendent shall do isn't >> because the guardrail represents the community's values. >> Yeah. So the guardrail is saying here's as a community we can say what's out of bounds as a community. This is it's it's not the

065board's school district. It's not the superintendent school district. It's a community school district. It's the community's dollars. It's the community's buildings, community schools, the community's children. And so the community does get a say operationally bounds and you all then as a board codify the community's voice, the community's values in the form of guards. Say here's what's out of bounds. Um, and that's a matter of protecting the community's values. But once we've gotten past what's out of bounds, somebody actually has to make the operational decision dayto day on, okay, so we know what's not allowable because it would violate the community's values. Now, somebody has to make a decision of all the options left. Somebody has to make a decision what we're going to do. Um, and generally what we would encourage is that you would

066push as much decision-m authority to as close to the student as possible. um as much decision-making authority as can be in the students hands and the teacher's hands and as much authority you can have in the classroom as possible push it that direction. Um but in order to do that that means there's a lot of other things that you have to push in that direction as well. Um and so that's part of what why we're encouraging you reflect who would have the expertise. And so the community's values describe what's out of bounds. That's number nine. But then it would take some expertise. Okay. So now that we know it's out of bounds, we need some expertise to help understand what should we do that's um among the 20 remaining options that are inbounds. And number

067eight is really describing that which is why it's an other and not a it's not about delegation and why it's not about a guardrail. So that was a pretty tricky one. Uh how about number 10? >> Other. >> I said other. >> Other. >> Why other? It didn't fall into any of the uh other four buckets. >> Yeah, it really doesn't. Who might have expertise about this? >> Our IT Yeah. department. >> Yeah. Ideally, your IT department uh would have some folks who know something about this type of uh data storage equipment and things of that nature. Uh and then finally, number 11. Uh which bucket did you put number 11 in? So I put >> I put other because I kind of think that is in lost stat at you but I might be

068wrong. It may just be in governance. >> Yeah, I put governing. But >> I put governing. >> Governing. >> Yeah. So this is governing. I really appreciate the point that you lifted up. I heard you said I put it in other because this might be in statute. whether or not an item is in statute doesn't dictate which of the five buckets it goes into. Uh so these are five topical buckets. This is just a way of organizing your policy manual of organizing how you think about policy. And so the legal designations um are not are are not the deciding factor. And so if there was a law that said you have to have a goal about third grade literacy, you'd still put that in the goal section and not the other section. And so so

069that's a that's a keen insight. I I put it here because there might be a law about it. But just know that when it comes to these five buckets, these five buckets are are not respective of is it legally required or not. there. These are just topical descriptions of how the board would know how to organize its work so that it can be most focused on student outcomes. And so number 11 I would definitely describe um as uh example of governing uh that it's really describing what is the board's relationship with the board uh what is the board's relationship with board members. That's really what's being described in number 11. And so that's what makes it an example of a governing policy. So we've gone through a few examples of these. I just want to

070pause for a second. Questions are are what are you noticing so far? Any questions you have or what are you noticing so far as we're going through and just practicing putting policy samples into different buckets? What do you what questions do you have or what are you noticing? >> I noticed that other This is Carol. I noticed that um other is probably the hardest bucket to put something in and probably the easiest one is going to be uh guard rails. >> Yeah, guardrails are pretty easy to spot. No doubt. >> No doubt. >> Uh who else? Uh what questions do you have? What are you noticing so far? >> I have something. >> Okay. So I I noticed um that so so guardrails we've been learning that are community values. Um these are things that

071the superintendent cannot do. So that has a specific uh label of the four buckets, but what the superintendent can do um can will fit into other if it's not a relationship between the board and the superintendent. So kind of going back to number eight. Um, yeah, that one was a trickier one to figure out because it's something that she or he can do, but it it was not defining a relationship between the board and superintendent. So, there's not a specific label for what the superintendent can do. It's an it's an other bucket, I guess you can say. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> What are you noticing so far? What questions do you have? >> Anyone else? >> I have something else. Thank you, Madam Chair. And so, um, you, uh, so recently the CGCS, um, we

072we some of the board members here, we went to the conference in Philadelphia and just kind of talking about policies. I mean, I like the fact that this is, I mean, like a diet of some sort. And so, I know we mentioned a little bit about whether something was a statute or not. Um but I learned um partially at the CGCS conference that I mean sometimes things are not statutes yet. So even like when we're considering tech um so going back to the number 10 who was the who is the expert in that? I mean I learned in one of the sessions on AI policies and uh in the school districts that if you don't have an AI policy you're already like two years behind. Um, and so just kind of thinking about that, I

073mean, if we had a policy on AI, I guess that would also be other maybe. >> It's a good question. >> Yeah. So, so if the board um heard from the community just a really powerful value that needed to be protected regarding a where could the board potentially adopt that? Which of the five buckets might that go in? the board listen went out and you listened to the community, you hosted a bunch of listening sessions and one of the things you heard is that people were really concerned and they had some values about AI and they wanted to protect um and make sure that their kids were protected and the schools were protected, you know, as AI is emerging. Um if the board heard that and really wanted to try to honor that, where could

074the board put that? Which of the four buckets? governing. Could you could you also put that you you can't jeopardize the safety whether it be virtual or in person of students like as a guardrail and to kind of so if you brought III in you had a guardrail around that for if that's what the issue was with safety. >> Yeah. So there's a few things the board could do. If the board felt like this is one of the prioritized areas of community values, then you could then you could adopt it as a guardrail. Say the superintendent shall not allow AI, you know, to run wild in our schools. Um, now the challenge with guardrails is what's the maximum number? >> Three to f five. Three is preferred. >> Yeah. Yeah. We recommend uh three. Definitely

075no more than five. So, how many of you adopted? >> Three. Oh, three. Right. >> Is it four? Is it Is it on the next page that we have? >> So, we have three. >> So, so far you've adopted um three goals and four guardian. >> Four. Four. And so you could potentially add one more guard route. We probably wouldn't recommend it. We The first question, you know, your coaching team would probably ask is, is this value so important to your community that it would be worthwhile to supplant one of the existing guardrails? And if the answer to that is no, then we'd probably recommend not adopting it as a guardrail at all. But if it is so important that you'd be willing to supplant one of your existing ones, um then I'd say yeah,

076it probably is important enough that you need to have a guardrail about it. If that is not the case, if you don't adopt it as a guardrail, one of the other options I heard was could we adopt it as a governing? Well, so governing policies describe the relationship between the board, pardon me, and the community. So if you wanted to have a policy that the board will not use AI abusively in its interactions with communities, that does sound like a governing policy, but I don't think that's what you were s recommending. You're probably thinking something more about how it's used in schools. At which point, which bucket would that go in? >> Other. >> That probably go in other. So there so notice though that there are multiple opportunities for the board uh to decide

077where such a policy might live and then it is the board's call of where it winds up living. That the board and the board alone gets to decide which of these five buckets it falls into. Staff doesn't get a vote. Nobody else gets a vote. The board and the board alone decides which of these five buckets this policy fall into. And so yes, there is a path. You could adopt it as a guardrail. Uh if this really described the board members behavior, then you could adopt it in governing. Um but if this is really about um the behavior you want to see in schools, then it' probably be other. I really like the I appreciate the discourse, AJ, because what you just showed me is that you can almost use AI in any of these

078and you have multiple options if if we wanted to, but >> that depends what you're hearing from your community and what you're trying to accomplish. That's absolutely correct of which bucket it would make the most sense uh to go into. So for you know so if for example um if you did not want the superintendent uh using AI to generate reports that she provides to the board which bucket might >> delegation I think that's delegation >> you could put you can put that in either delegation or if If you wanted to, I wouldn't recommend it. You could create a guardrail around it. I wouldn't recommend it. This is really something super specific to just the relationship between the board and the superintendent. And for that reason, I'd put in a delegation. Notice that your guard

079rails are not about the relationship between the board and the superintendent. Yeah. >> Notice that your guardrails are really about big operational things. They're about life skills. They're about instruction. They're about access to learning. They're about enrichment opportunities. your guard rails aren't about the relationship between your board and your superintendent. So when there are things that are, I'd recommend you probably put those in delegation. And so yeah, depending on what you're hearing from the community and what you're trying to accomplish really dictates which of these buckets go into and you could even conceivably have a goal around AI if you wanted to. Uh the percentage of students uh the percentage of high school students who have demonstrated the ability to create um and train a large language model will increase from 0% in this month

080and year to 80% by this. Like if you want all your kids to be able to graduate knowing how to build a LLM, well that that sounds like something that students would know and be able to do, you could absolutely have a goal around that. You'd probably be the first in the nation. You'd probably make What other questions? What else is coming up for you or other questions? Is you're reflecting on our activity here of categorizing policy statement questions or other things that are coming up for you. >> It's pretty quiet up here on the dis. >> All right. Before we move on, I want to then do a speed round. We'll do just a few more and then we'll be done uh with this. I want to do a quick speed round just to

081practice a few more of these for clarity sake. So, we've got number 12 through number 20. And so, I've got number 12 up here. I'll give you just a uh a quick minute and then we'll go. We're not going to give you a whole bunch of time on these. We can see if we can speed through them. So, number 12, which bucket would you put that in? Governing. >> Yep. That's absolutely governing. It's about how the board functions. It's the board's relationship to the board. Number 13. Which bucket would you put that in? >> Other. >> Yep. Uh, this is about others, not about the relationship between the superintendent and the board. Um, and so I put that in other, not under delegation. Uh, number 14. Yeah. goals. >> Yeah. Number 14 is a goal.

082Absolutely. Number 15. >> It's governance. >> That is governing. That's how the board functions. It's about the board's relationship with its board members. Um number 16, >> other. >> Yep. Um clearly the person with the expertise being described here would be the principal. Uh number 17 >> would be other >> guardrail. >> Number 17 is a guardrail. It's describing what the superintendent shall not uh allow. Uh it' be a guardrail. Number 18. >> Other. >> That's other um and certainly you've got some people in your federal programs department probably have a lot of expertise in this area. Number 19, >> governance or or delegation. Uh >> oh. >> Good qu good question. Which is it? >> Well, it's Oh, it's it's saying what the board will do. >> Yeah. >> Got to go back. >>

083Boards. What do y'all think? M >> I'm thinking delegation. >> Me too. >> So the question is is this describing the relationship between the board and itself or the relationship between the board and the superintendent? >> Board and superintendent. >> I think so. Which would make it what? >> Delegation. >> That makes it delegation. Number 20. >> Other. >> I think so. So number 20 is a little bit of an odd duck is is most likely other. This is most likely talk about the school system as a whole. Under what um context would number 20 be governing >> if this is for board members maybe. >> Yeah. Talk about how documents that the board signs are signed. Under what context could this be delegation? Gosh, if only the superintendent, if it's between the superintendent and

084the >> if this is talking about what the superintendent can do with things that they are providing to the board, then this might be delegation. But in general, left without that type of context, I'd put this down as other. All right. Um, so I just want to go around the table right quick and before we move on, just give each person an opportunity. What's one thing you're taking away from this activity? This off right click. Uh, what's one thing you're taking away from this activity? >> I have better clarity as to I didn't get any of those wrong. So, good job. I got I got better clarity. >> I see. >> Good job, Miss Miss Thompson. >> Carol is expert on the policy no >> diet. Sounds like >> uh as we go on around

085uh just each person you know who's next after Carol just uh you know Carol pat your neighbor on the shoulder and let them go next. >> It's me AJ it's Jessica. Um I'm learning that man policy making and um and also monitoring is just very complicated. I mean, there's there's a lot to consider and um are we truly looking at and monitoring the the policies in a way that will benefit student outcomes? I don't know, but um I'm looking to see and looking to see how we will move on as a board together looking at our policies. >> Yeah. >> Um I learned that statute doesn't dictate what bucket it goes our policies go into. >> Yeah, >> Lori stole mine. That's what I was going to go with, too. >> Sorry. Uh, you know,

086I'm still going through it. Uh, trying to figure out what what bucket goes into what, but I'm I'm learning. I was looking through here and trying to figure out where censure would go in. So, I just uh but it's something that I uh will continue to look at and uh practice with and and hopefully I'll get it by the next time. >> Censure of who? >> Uh if you wanted to censure a board member, I just didn't know where that would fall in if they didn't follow the the rules. >> Cure of a censure of a board member by whom? Uh just just it would probably be in governing. You think so? Yeah, probably governing >> relationship to each other. Oh, >> okay. >> The board. Yeah. >> Thank you. Thank you so much. >>

087It sounds like Jessica's Jessica and Carol over there being the head of the class. >> They are at the head of the class. >> Let's not do that. >> Who's next? >> Hey AJ, this is Juan of U. you know, I'm I'm sometimes I do have a hard time putting in the stuff in the right bucket, whether it's like my colleague said, Jessica Sufentes, uh it she kind of in a way I guess we were thinking alike because it's hard to make policies and then also uh monitoring. So >> it can be a little bit challenging, confusing at the time. So sometimes I have to go back in and you know read the book and kind of refresh my memory cuz it's it's uh you think you your your heart says the one thing but

088then you talk to your colleagues colleagues and then of uh no uh it's it should be it's this. So it's like it's confusing at at times but uh we're learning and um I'm glad that we have a team that you know we help each other out. So yeah, >> you know, Wanda, the point that you make is spot on in that school boards really tend to be comprised, you know, of just some of the best people in the community. folks who want to make a difference for children, folks who care, folks who are willing to sacrifice time with their own families, time on their own jobs in order to u volunteer that time to serve children in their community on behalf of everybody else. Um and so board members, you know, across the country are

089people who really just want to do right by kids. >> Yes. Um, but it does take a little bit of clarity to know how best to do right by kids. Um, and so it's not enough that people care. Um, that's pretty much the default for board members is that these are people who care deeply um, all across the country, all across Oklahoma, but you know, board members and some of I think just some of the the best folks that you that your community has to offer. But it does take more than just caring that there you have to be able to decipher which things would be the most valuable for us to focus our time on. Um and that is not an easy question to your point Juan that that is if it was obvious

090everybody would do it. >> If it was easy everybody would do it. Um if it was if it was simple and clear everybody would do it. Yes sir. The fact that a lot of boards aren't focused on student learning isn't because they don't care. It's just because which things focus on are going to have the most, you know, benefit for kids versus other things. And so that's that's what's happening here is we're just going through a systematic approach and trying to identify which things really require the expertise of the board and the board alone and that would that would be the most powerful thing for us to spend our time on. Um, it doesn't mean the other things don't matter. It just means the other things, we've got some experts that we can rely on.

091But these areas, if the board doesn't do it, it ain't going to get done. And it's definitely not going to get done well. And so, yeah, that that this is a little bit complicated is I think it's spot on, which describes why, you know, school boards across the country, across the state, when you really watch their meetings, most of the time aren't talking about student learning. But it's not because they're bad people. It's not because you know they they don't want to be focused. It's because it is a little bit complicated on how to get there. This is a major step in the direction of how do we as a board get clarity about which things would be the most valuable for us to focus on and which things do we have other people in

092the organization uh that we can rely on their expertise more. Uh, anybody else reflections or thoughts on this topic? Because the the point they raises is really important for you to wrestle with. Is getting clear about these five buckets of policies and there's four that the board should really has to own that nobody else can. And this fifth bucket, this other made of things that the board has the authority um to try to to get support on from others who have more expertise. um as a way of freeing up the board's time. Like I said, you could have a gravel policy and that would definitely be an other and you could spend time on it or you could delegate the superintendent and her staff to spend time on it. And the benefit of keeping it

093would be that you know more about gravel, but you'd have less time for student outcomes. The benefit of delegating it was that you have more time for student outcomes, but you know less about gravel. And so that's the conversation that you're having right now is what are the four categories of policy that's most valuable for us to be focused on because nobody else can do it and what's the remaining uh area of policy that others uh have expertise in. Um and and the purpose of this idea of doing a comprehensive review of your policy is to essentially do for all of your policies what we just did is to take all of your policies and determine which of these five buckets does it fall into. >> Um so I think last time we spoke and

094we talked about there being somebody said like 180 policies or something. I can't remember what did somebody say. >> Yep. Tony said is shaking his head. Yes. 180 approximately policies. Now the question is how many of those are goal policies? >> Uh the only policy we have that discusses goals is it and it's not a goal. I mean it it's not goals like what we have now but it is their B-2 is board operational goals policy but it's not so we have that but it doesn't have our goals in it as of >> but it doesn't have to have the goals in it. What type of policy is that one? It fits into one of the five buckets. Which bucket would that one fit into? >> Goals. >> It's basically saying that the board should

095have goals. >> Yes. >> So, which which of the four buckets would that policy fit into? >> Governance. >> Yeah. That's a governing policy. Yeah. So, you have a governing policy that says you should have goals, but that's not actually a goal uh for the district. So, um, right now of your 180 policies that you had before you started this process, how many of them actually are goals? >> Zero. But now you've adopted three. So now you do have three policies that fit into the goal bucket. Prior to this, uh, I suspect you had zero policies that meet the definition of a guardrail. Uh, but now you have four policies that meet the definition of a guardrail. So, of those rem 180 policies, some of them will fit into the governing bucket. We've just identified

096one that does um that says the board should have goals. Some of them uh will fit in the delegation bucket. I'm sure you probably already have uh I know you do cuz I saw it at one point, a bucket that talked about superintendent uh authority. Uh that that probably fits into your delegation. Um and so of the 180 some will fit into governing some will fit into delegation. Uh but then a lot of them will fit into other. And guess whose job it is to decide which is which? >> The board. >> It's the boards. Now fortunately you've got a lot of support. Your staff can support you with this. We can support you with this. But ultim ultimately only the seven of you only seven only the eight of you really have the authority

097to say uh which goes where. Other questions or reflections about this idea of doing a policy review and putting all of your existing policies into one of these five buckets? >> Other questions or thoughts about that? Madam Chair, >> so you've just done an example of that task, but really a major next step that you're discussing as a board is to do this in reality with all of your policies. Questions, reflections about that? >> Yes, just cast one. >> Yes. Um AJ, I have a question. This one's more for you because this uh I I have a question. I was wondering if you created this system and kind of like what was the reasoning behind creating this system with policies? Uh so I definitely can't uh take uh credit for being uh the author of

098all this stuff. Um this this approach to governing was created by a large group of school board members and superintendents um um that are all part of the council of great city schools. Um so it was really looking at what is the approach to schoolboard governance. So there was me and a lot of other school board members. uh they they were all trying to figure out what is a way of approaching our duties as schoolboard members in large urban districts that would allow us to focus the greatest amount of our time on student learning. Um and there just weren't a lot of obvious answers at the time. And so instead of uh instead of just kind of wandering in the darkness, we all got together and over time uh cocreated uh a system that we'd

099say works for us as large of a districts. We don't uh suggest that it's the perfect system for everybody. Uh but we do say this is kind of by us for us that a group of urban uh school board members and a few superintendents participated but it's mostly schoolboard members uh started working and we really put the first version of this together back in 2014. >> Thank you. And >> does that answer is that responsive to your question? >> Yes, that was great. Thank you. So it was a large group of people that worked together to create the system. That's awesome. Um, and one other thing, >> and if you look in your policy, if you look in the, um, the manual and the materials we provided, uh, you'll see the names of most of

100those people. If you look in the back of the book read on their behalf, you'll also see the names of those people repeated again. >> Is a lot of folks. >> Awesome. Thank you. And I did have one more just comment. Um, in the pre-ereading, I remember reading about um, just how money is also essentially a piece of time. Um, and so when we were when we were talking about how um I mean what what is the cost of maybe creating a policy with gravel or whatever it could be. I mean I I remember thinking that that kind of was burned into my mind that the cost is our time. So if we're not focusing on student outcomes yeah we're we're losing our time. Well, and you know the I know you all have heard

101you know the story that I've told about the school district that uh the school board that was having a hourlong debate about the color of the buses. Um they spend a lot of their time talking about the color of buses. Um and so they spent their time um time that they could have been used talking about student learning instead was talking about you know what color the buses should be. Um and that is a huge cost that is absolutely cost. But if you remember in this story it was actually the cost is greater than that because after the board spent an hour talking about the color of buses what did the superintendent uh and their team do for the next two weeks? worked on bus a bus order. >> They they worked on bus colors.

102Um and when the local newspaper uh ran an oped, was that oped >> I think you cut out on the end, but I think where you were going is the op-ed was not favorable toward the board members who are wasting their time talking about the color of buses. Instead, >> I wish that was the case, but no, the oped was all about bus colors. Oh, instead of students. >> Um, and that in that same time period, the the teachers union put out a survey. Was that survey about uh student outcomes? >> A cascading thing. >> Yeah. About bus colors. >> Oh gosh. >> At the next board meeting, the superintendent put on an hourlong presentation. Was that presentation about student outcomes? >> No. And so this is the challenge is that how the board spends

103its time you all it is you are spending your time um but it's not just that you might be spending your time in a way that's not focused on student outcomes. However you as a board spend your time has a uniquely huge uh knock-on effect for how so many other people in your organization and your community spend their time. That's what's at stake here is that you all spending an hour on a a report about the type of a gravel and who got the gravel contract and and and all of that. You could spend an you could spend an hour of your time on that and you and you wouldn't be breaking any laws. It' be perfectly legal. You could do that, but there is a cost to it cost and the cost isn't borne

104by adults. Who pays the cost for your lack of focus on student learning? >> Students. >> That's that's the message here. The message is that that none of your actions are free. That there is always a benefit, there's always a cost. And so, while there may be a benefit to talking about gravel, there is definitely a cost to spending your time on it. While there may be benefit to having a policy about gravel, which would certainly be in the other bucket, there is also a cost to it. And the cost is that you're not focusing in on the thing that you all say matters most. Any other questions or reflection on this idea about policy about really reviewing all of your policies and figuring out which of these five buckets each of your policies falls

105in? Other questions or reflections on that? Because that that's really one of the next steps that we'd encourage you to do is take the time to just reflect on for all of these policies, which of these five buckets does it fall into? questions or thoughts about that process, about you all taking the time, whether you do it individually as some boards have done, whether you do it collectively as some boards have done, whether you kind of break it up into small pieces and have different board members work on it as some boards have done, whether you delegate it largely to your staff uh to work on this and bring you back um their recommendation like uh but ultimately you all have to make the call. Nobody else can. What are your thoughts about doing this

106about taking a moment to try to identify which of these five buckets do all of our existing 180 policies fall into? What are your thoughts about that process? >> Any ideas? Well, I think that um and I I think Tony and the the legal team is already probably if starting this work, but it's we do have to look at our current policies and see which ones are statutoily required and kind of we I mean we have to start by in my view kind of categorizing the policies as they exist today and then I envision some sort of systematic process of reviewing them um and and kind of figuring out what that looks like over the next so our committee diet I know is next and we do have to talk about that because we're getting

107really close to our two-hour window but um I it feels like that a policy committee could have a very specific reason to exist and a beginning and an end date which I think if I read the book correctly would make that policy useful And that would get board members involved in that. >> But >> yes, you could absolutely have a committee and they could just be given one task and say, "Look, you all have one month. Come back to us at the end of the month and tell us for each of these 180 policies which bucket you as a committee would put it in." And you'd essentially do exactly what we just did. Um, and notice, you know, it was a little bit slow going the first uh two rounds, but by the third round,

108the speed round, like y'all just clipped through it like it was nothing. Um, and so yes, um, it that is a normal approach for a board to take is to grab a committee, get some support from your attorney's office, some support from us, um, and just crank through them and provide a report back to the board. It's like, okay, here's the book as we put them in. Um, and then the board can choose to act accordingly. >> Is it I think that sounds great. >> Any questions or questions about that idea? >> Okay. No one. >> Any any volunteers perhaps? >> I'll unvolunteer. How about that? I'll unvolunteer for the committee. Carol said she'll do it. >> I'll volunteer. Jessica, two others. >> Yeah. >> Mike be on the committee. >> I get to be

109on a committee. >> I I offered the COC one. Man, you didn't do it. >> Madam Chair, you going to finally put me on a committee after a year. >> Check your email. I offered you the Citizens Oversight Committee and you didn't answer me. I don't think so. >> Uhhuh. >> Yep. But yes. >> Who uh so uh should I hear Jessica and Mike and who else? >> I'd love to be on policy if I could get appointed. >> All right. One more. Can have quorum but Dana and Meg aren't here. Is anybody else volunteering? >> Is there a >> or are you going to volunteer somebody who is not present? >> Possibly. I mean, I I'm happy to or Carol and I can we can we can talk about it, fight over it. >>

110Okay, there you go. Jessica, Carol, Mike, and Lori. >> Um, and and what there is to do is uh let us know how we can support and we will definitely uh be there to just be a technical resource uh and to help answer questions. Um, I'll tell you it is a little bit slightly more complicated than what we did tonight. We definitely did the kind of easy clean version this evening. So, it's a little bit more complicated, but it's not so much more so that a a committee can't handle it. Um, and usually, you know, would take probably two meetings to get through most of it if people do their homework in advance. So what we generally recommend for any committee and we're now bleeding into our next topic for any committee uh to really

111be of optimal use to the board our coaching is that that committee never be allowed to meet until a few conditions are met. So if you all are kind of the note-taking sort and you want to you know be thinking about committee leadership this is your time. We would recommend that no committee ever be allowed to be formed or meet until a few conditions are met. The first condition is we recommend there never be a committee where it's not given a clear deliverable that it is responsible for providing back to the board. Committees don't exist to help out the superintendent. The superintendent's got plenty of help. If she needs a committee, she can form one. So board doesn't create committees to help out the superintendent. The board creates committees to help itself. But it needs

112to be really crystal clear about what the deliverable is. Uh you don't want committees out here meeting just to meet inventing stuff to do. So a committee shouldn't exist and should never meet unless the first criteria is it should have a deliverable that clearly articulates what is it that the committee will produce and provide back to the board. That's the first criteria that we'd recommend be true for a committee to be uh in existence. The second criteria is that it have a due date for delivering the deliverable. So it's not enough to say here's what the committee will bring back. You should also ask yourselves by when does the committee have to bring this back? And so that's the second piece of our coaching is that first uh for a committee to exist it should

113have a clear deliverable. What is it creating and bringing back to the board? And the second criteria is by when is it bringing it back to the board? And then finally the when committees are created we recommend the board chair uh be clear about who is on the committee um and who is chairing the committee. Um and so who are the members of the committee and who is the chair of the committee. Uh the board needs to identify that and as a correlary to that because we believe in going hard for kids that this is this is not a game that this is the real work for real children. It needs to be taken real seriously that any committee that doesn't deliver its deliverable by its due date, the chair of that committee uh the

114committee should immediately cease to exist and if the board decides to reform the committee to continue to work then whoever was the chair is ineligible to serve. So basically saying there has to be a reason to meet. There has to be a deadline for accomplishing that reason and there has to be some accountability that people are serving and that and that there's accountability that if they don't actually do the job uh that the that the person who chaired that uh should not be allowed to serve on that committee again during their current term of office. Uh that that the board should expect people to actually get the job done if they stand up and say we will get the job done. So those are the those are the the ground rules that we recommend boards

115u use when determining uh whether or not committees will exist. What questions do you have about any of those three ground rules? The first one is that there should be a deliverable. The second one is that there should be a due date and the third one is that there should be clear about who serves, who's in leadership and that if the committee doesn't deliver, uh the committee is dissolved and if it's reformed, the chair is ineligible to serve on that committee again for the remainder of their current term on the school board. What questions or reflections do you have about any of these three expectations we recommend that boards have of committees? Madam chair. >> Yes. I have a question on this. So this is for all committees for the board. These criteria. >> We

116recommend this for all committees. We recommend this for all committees is to be clear about what's the deliverable, what's the due date for the deliverable and who is in service and who is in leadership. Um and that there be consequences for not honoring your word when you choose to lead. And the I guess the consequence the one consequence is if the like if it doesn't meet the deliverable that chair of that committee cannot serve on only that committee ever again until that time. >> That's correct. >> Okay. But they can serve on other committees. >> That is that is abs that is absolutely what we recommend is that if they choose not to honor their word to deliver the deliverable by the due date that they accepted when they accepted the chair role um that

117the committee goes away. um that happens regardless when the due date comes, the committee no longer exists. Um and so committees live for the duration of their purpose and they cease to exist. And if the board chooses to reform a committee for that same purpose in the future, that's fine. It can do so, but then whoever was the chair would be ineligible to serve on that for the remainder of their current term on the board. >> And how does the board kind of implement this process? Like is this a pol would this would this >> interestingly enough you'd adopt a policy about it but which of the five buckets would that policy live in? >> Oh Jesus >> uh governing >> that is definitely a governing policy that is that we absolutely recommend those three

118criteria that you adopt as a governing policy. >> I walked into that one didn't I >> indeed indeed. Other questions about this recommendation regarding policies that regarding committees rather that committees have a clear job to accomplish a clear date by when they have to complete that job and then accountability u for actually do you know who is accountable for actually doing it other questions or reflections you have about this view of committees. >> U madam chair one more question. >> Yes. So, okay, following up to that, so we would create a policy for that committee, but let's say we're on that committee and we know, hey, like we don't have enough time, like we maybe we need a another few months or something. I mean, could we come back to the board and ask for

119a change in that policy and then we would vote for it? Is that >> Yes. So, generally, uh the way most boards operate is the committees are appointed by uh the board chair. Um, and in that cont in in that rare situation, we would generally encourage the board and chair not to offer an extension on time >> unless she just felt like there was a super super compelling reason. Uh, but generally we, you know, our view of, you know, accountability is that if you give your word that you're going to do something that you ought to go ahead and do that. Uh so the real lesson here is don't give your word to chair a committee um and adhere to a due date unless you've really thought it through is like yeah we can absolutely

120get that done in that amount of time. Um and so just all all it means from a leadership perspective is just take a moment be thoughtful and make sure that you've thought things through. Don't just kind of you know fly by the seat of your pants. Um and so in that context, our first coaching to board chairs is typically no, do not extend grace, do not extend timelines. Like this is the work of children and adults need to be trained into the mindset that children don't have forever. You know, your third graders, you don't want them having to go through third grade twice because y'all couldn't get it together. Like y'all want them to get what they deserve right now while they're in third grade. And so this idea of maintaining a stance of operational

121urgency on behalf of children, we think the board has to model that. And that's why if it sounds a little bit aggressive, that's the intention is that there should be urgency in doing the work of children. >> All right. Very clear. Thank you. >> Okay. Anyone else? So that that basically walks us directly into the next question which is should we have a committee or not? So uh what existing committees do you have? We have very few because once we started this um didn't add any prior to starting SOFG and waiting for the committee diet piece to come up when new board members would come on I would say hey we've got four committees which ones are you interested in and I would keep that but really the only thing we have running right now

122is kind of operations finance that's working on the citizens oversight piece of the bond and that's about to wrap up and then occa we still have the finance that kind of sits out there, but it's missing a couple of people right now because I we haven't met again waiting for this. So really, we're down to a loose policy committee and an operations committee, but operations is the only one that's meeting consistently. And we've already said that would probably meet less once we get our citizens oversight appointed in the next month. So right now, it looks like we'll have a policy committee is what we'll have. >> Yeah. >> All right. And so then if we apply these three criteria then the first question is what does it exist to accomplish? What is its deliverable? >>

123Anybody what what and particularly if you are currently the chair of Z committee what is the deliverable that this committee exists to deliver back to the board? Which one do we >> Well, the one that Carol just chaired was a timebased one and it was to bring the recom to review the applications for the citizens oversight committee and then to bring forward the nine recommendations out of that and it was timed. >> Um we're on track with that. >> Perfect. >> But that was the only one that's new. So that that that that that's a great example of how a board would use a committee is there's something that the board needs done and it makes more sense to have a subgroup of the board to handle it and bring a recommendation back to the

124board. Um and so you put together a committee that said and the job and the deliverable was bring a recommendation um and you gave them a due date by this date. Um and then you identified who was going to chair it and who was going to be on it. Um, and as soon as the chair, you know, considered being the chair, now you're on the clock and the committee's rolling. That's exactly what we recommend on a go forward basis. Um, so what I want you to do real quick is I just want you to think about over the next year, what is another deliverable? Um, I I encourage each of you to just write down at your um station where you're sitting. Over the next year, what is a deliverable that the board might need?

125What's something the board might need done? um that it might make sense to have a committee for um what would be its due date and for this purpose you just indicate should they get 4 weeks 8 weeks 12 weeks you know 60 weeks I don't know uh figure it out u but what should the due date be for that um and then let's just go through some examples so who has an example of what's a deliverable that the board might need sometime in the next year and what might the due date be how how many weeks would you give the committ to work on developing uh that deliverable. Who will give the first example? >> You have one, Lori? >> Yeah, I have an example. Um I think we might need a committee to determine

126the next steps for the existing Capitol Hill High School building um that will, you know, no longer have students in it after the new building is built. Um and I put a time limit. I just I just threw out eight weeks And so this is the deliverable that's coming back to the board. This is a decision the board has to make, not a decision the staff has to make. >> Correct. Because the board has responsibility over the the sale and like uh I don't know how to say it. Of the buildings, our real property. Thank you. >> Yeah. And so this example of the board needing support, you're not helping the staff out, the board is helping the board out. like the purpose of committees is to provide a deliverable from the board back to

127the board. Um, and so this sounds like it meets that criteria. How much time would you give? What would the deadline be? >> I threw out eight weeks, but that might be too short. Carol's 12 weeks. >> 12 weeks. It's a complex situation. So, uh, >> and this is important. >> Yeah. But I do think that one important that you think this through. Yeah, >> I was just going to say this method of putting together committees really requires thoughtfulness on the front end of determining what committees and and re being realistic. And so no, I think this is good. So I think 12 weeks is more doable. >> So So Lori, if your board chair came to you and said, "Here's a deliverable you got to that needs to deliver um and I'm giving you

128a deadline of four weeks. Will you serve as chair? What would your response be? >> No. You're setting me up. You're setting me up for failure. I want to succeed. We've got to talk more deeply about this as a board and be realistic on what we can do. >> Yes, that is exactly the response is that you would then say, "Oh, hold on, hold on. I'm I can't get it done in that time. If you can pick somebody else, you know, maybe Carol can get it done in four weeks or she could be chair. I can't get it done in four weeks. I'm not going to be chair. >> Yeah. >> But board members, that is exactly what we are recommending. Board members, if your board chair comes to you with a deadline that you

129think is cray cray, then you be like, "No, I'm not. I'm not the one." >> Like, here's what I think it would actually take to deliver a quality product back to the board. Um, and if you, and now, uh, Madame Chair, if Lori comes back to you and says, "Hey, look, um, four weeks doesn't cut it. Um, I need a hundred weeks. What would your response as board chair be? >> 100 weeks is a lot of weeks in a kid's life. We probably need to do it sooner than that so we focus on student outcomes. >> That would be my response. But I could compromise and go to 16 weeks >> or eight. >> Yeah. Yeah, you might compromise to 16. Um, and if Lori doesn't accept 16 weeks, uh, then what would you do?

130>> See if anyone else would take that position or and if nobody said 16 weeks was enough, then I'd have to figure it out. Yeah. AB you find somebody else who's willing to take it on and say, "Hey, Carol, you think you can knock this out in 16 weeks?" Carol be like, "Yeah, I think I can do it in 12. So 16 works for me. Um, you know, we'll get started on this immediately." That is exactly the type of conversation. What it does is it puts the u onus on you as individual board members to be thoughtful with your board leadership about, okay, what is it really going to take to to deliver this deliverable? Recognizing that that really comes down to well, what will the committee need to do? Like if a committee needs

131to do some public engagement or, you know, host a listening session, then it's going to take more time. If this is just going through a list and categorizing things, well, then that'll take less time. But it but it really forces each of you as individual board members to think through what will it take to deliver a quality deliverable? And if I'm going to say yes to it, then I need to make sure that I've thought through that and identified what amount of time that will take so that way I can honor my word to actually deliver the deliverable by the due date. Uh um what are you all taking away from this conversation about um about committees that you should only and remember the the basic coaching here is you should you should only have

132a committee if it has a specific deliverable a specific due date and the members and leader have been identified and they understand what is what is required of leadership. Uh, so what are you all taking away from this conversation about committees um and how they might be used going forward? >> What are you taking away from this conversation about committees? >> Madam Chair, >> y uh yes, this is Jessica and I mean I'm what I'm getting from this conversation about just committees is I mean the accountability piece is huge. It's we're keeping each other accountable, ourselves accountable, uh to do things timely, but and also not and set realistic expectations for what can be accomplished. Um because some of our projects like the Capitol Hill, I mean that they can be very complex. And I

133mean, if we do get community input, that would take time as well. And so I think uh the accountability piece in this conversation is huge. >> Yeah. Look, the reality is if you want to create accountability in your school system, you have to model what that looks like. And so if you want the right to hold your staff accountable, you all have to hold yourselves accountable. If you want to be able to say to your staff, no, no, no, we're not we're not here listening for kind of all the reasons. You know, we don't want excuses. What we want is results for kids. But you have to model what that looks like. That you all have to be willing to be thoughtful about what does it take to actually accomplish things. um to set realistic

134expectations around that and then to go out and get the job done regardless of what that requires. Um this is your opportunity to model that. That's absolutely correct. Anybody else? What are you taking away from this before we transition? What are you taking away from this conversation about how committees might work going forward? I have a question more than a take I guess going forward with it is >> so we have in the there's been a legislative committee but in and it hasn't met in a while but in the past it would do two things and they were deliverables. One was help set legislative like goals or policies and it would kind of come back to the board and talk about that and then we'd give that information to the lobbyists and the superintendent would

135do that. So that was but it was pretty short like it wasn't meeting regularly. They would just kind of come together with the superintendent and their team come up with that and then they would bring that back out to the board. And then the second thing it did was it has a legislative breakfast and they would kind of look at run of show and what the goal for the legislative breakfast was. But that was really the only two specifics and unless those things were coming up they weren't meeting. >> So >> yeah, >> I don't know about that one. Just wanted to ask. >> Yeah. So, it sounds like you've nailed it is that it's got deliverables. The only thing it's missing is I just get clear about what are the due dates for those

136two different deliverables and then identify who the board chair is or who the committee chair is and who the committee members are with the understanding that the committee chair doesn't deliver by the due dates then that's fine. Uh they won't but next year when the committee is needed again that they won't be asked to chair. >> Okay. Thank you. Any other questions or reflections on this on this view of committees? It's that committee service isn't just like a political plum um that you pass out. That this is really we are about the business of children. We take it very very seriously. Um there are consequences for non-performance. Uh but we don't even start a committee um unless we've thought through what are the deliverables and what's a reasonable due date for it. Any other thoughts

137or reflection on this before we transition? >> Madam chair. >> Yes. >> And so I have a question. So does that mean that there are no standing committees in this model >> like at all? >> Uh we would we would recommend that all of your committees function by these rules. And so if you have so there are some things that are cyclical in nature. So for example uh a lot of boards across the country have an audit committee. Well we'd say well what does audit committee do? Identify the deliverables. Well, well, they've got to oversee the annual financial audit. Great. Well, then I would have them exist for the 3month or four-month period necessary to do that, and they would have whatever their deliverable is, they'd have a due date, and as soon as that's

138done, it goes away. And when you need it again next year, you go through the same process all over again. Uh, but what it means is that committees are not about thiefts. Committees are not about accumulating power. Committees are about getting some getting the work of children done and then moving on. Thank you. >> Anyone else? >> So, we've dug into a conversation about policy and talked about the four buckets of policy that really only the board has the expertise for. Um, and then practice what it's like putting things in those four buckets. And then we talked about u um committees and really talked about walking away from any committees where there's not clarity about what is the deliverable, what's the due date, and who's in leadership and what are the expectations of leadership look

139like. Um we will dive further into each of these on a go forward basis that what we do as a result of these conversations is we uh will put pen to paper and draft up u potential policy memos for you uh that articulate how to put some of this in writing in your uh policy manual. Um and all of that are things that we I believe we'll go over together um um at a future meeting. I think maybe on the 17th or something like that. Um, but as you have further questions about any of these topics, don't hesitate to reach out to uh any of us on your coaching team. Uh, we are honored to be of service. Um, and are just really proud of the progress you all are making at being uh, future

140driven, future focused on improving student outcomes. >> Thank you. Anyone else? No. Okay. Thank you for your time tonight. We appreciate you. Can I just add one more thing before the coaches get off? And I just um I think we know we're our next monitoring report review. I don't want to review is on Monday, so a week from today. Our tactical and technical questions are due by close of business tomorrow. But I just wanted to throw it out that I actually ran a bunch of questions by Carol. just emailed them to our coach Carol and just she gave really good feedback on like yes this is tactical no this is not tactical this is so I had a couple that were like off base so anyway I just wanted to put a pitch out that

141if you're getting ready for next Monday and you want feedback on them they're really good and quick to give you feedback on the technical technical and strategy questions as we prepare >> those questions are due to Dr. Pul though by tomorrow close of business for the following Monday. >> Correct. >> Um and I have a question. How do we access that manual? The tech like how the questions are tactical strategic >> like this that this manual right here. >> Is that where it has it? Okay. >> If so they're on page um on the I used it today. I have a copy at home and I did use page 17. If you go to page 17, um, they have examples and it'll help you remind yourself since it's been a minute of the types of

142questions that we should answer and it even has some um, examples. >> Okay, cool. I sent an email that I think you all should have received yesterday evening that had a embedded link to the technical tactical and strategic questions but I can resend that. Did you not get that board for member Squantes? >> Um I have not looked at that email so let me check. >> It might be in your email last night but I'll resend it. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. and I will do my best to respond if you guys reach out to me tomorrow. >> Well, I greatly appreciate it. Um, Carol, I thought it was your feedback was great and really helped helped me. >> Terrific. Yeah, >> that's that's uh you know this is this is you know I

143say this over and over again but you you guys are in the midst of you know huge structural you know uh cultural change and you know we're here to help. Don't hesitate to reach out. >> Okay, thank you. Okay, um I'll make a motion to enter into uh executive session. Is there a second? Okay, >> call the vote. Paula Lewis, >> yes. >> Carol Thompson, >> yes. >> Lori Bowman, >> yes. >> Jessica C. Fuentes, >> yes. >> Mike Shelton, >> yes. >> Juan Lacona, >> C. Having received six I votes and zero nay votes, the motion carries. The record show the board returned back from an executive session 9:00 p.m. >> my bedtime. >> And Craig will read the document into the record. Thank you, Madam Chair. The board entered into executive session at

1447:33 p.m. returned to open session at 900 p.m. on November 3, 2025. Individuals present included all board members present at this meeting and Dr. Jamie Pulk and Laura Holmes. The board discussed the superintendent evaluation and the evaluation and employment of the director of board services board clerk minutes clerk. No actions were taken during executive session. >> Thank you. I'll make a motion to adjurnn. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Call for the vote. >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any oppose say nay. Hearing none. Motion carries. The board is adjourned.