001Oh, quorum and the link is up and working. So, I will go ahead and turn this um welcome everybody and turn it over to Mr. Kates to get us going. Thank you, Madam Chair. And if everyone would please take a moment to silence your cell phones, we would appreciate that. If you need to have an extended conversation with the person next to you or on your phone, please do so in the lobby. Please note, spontaneous comments from the floor are not permitted. Individuals who exhibit disruptive or distracting behavior will be asked to leave. And individuals who come to the podium to address the board are asked to please introduce yourself by name, title, and if other than OKCPS, please also include your organization. With that, I will call the role. >> Paula Lewis, >> present.
002>> Carol Thompson, >> present. >> Lori Bowman, >> present. >> Jessica Suentes, >> Dana Meister, >> present. Mike Shelton >> and I don't know if his mic is just for those that uh wouldn't have heard that >> present. >> We do have a present for Mr. Shelton. Thank you. And Juan Lakona is not here and Meg Melhaney >> present. >> Thank you. >> And with that, I'll turn it back over to Chair Lewis. >> All right. Thank you, Craig. All right, board. We have done hours of training to get to this next training. So, we are excited to have our um coaches with us tonight from Council of Great City Schools and it's over the board self-evaluation. We had the um pre-ereading sent to us. We have a board quarterly self-evaluation template here that we'll
003be working with today. And this will help us know how we're doing on our agendas and if we are going to um make the successful move into outcome governance to where 50% of our build our board meetings at one point will be discussing students outcomes and read and literacy, math and uh sec postsecondary opportunities. So all right, let's go ahead and recognize let's see who's up there with us. Coach Carol. >> Hi. Um, I'm pretty sure AJ is going to join us as well. Um, he just asked for the link a second ago, so I have a feeling he'll be um on any second. Um, but just to get started um we coach that uh we the board should do a quarterly self evaluation for um multiple reasons. Um one is because uh we want
004to stress the importance of role modeling um continuous improvement and so if you want to change the culture of your organization to become continuous become improvement um it's important that the leaders do that. Uh so the first thing we're doing is the fir one of the first reasons we do this board quarterly self-evaluation is to role model that and to have that become the culture of the organization. Um a second reason is um because it's it's a process of becoming student outcomes focused. So we need to make sure that um we're continuing to make progress along the progress. the same way we want to make sure the um district is making progress toward the goals. And then there's a third reason that we coach um hold on, I'm getting something from a that we coach
005this Oh, here he is. is because um uh the um uh it it's important for the board to evaluate itself before it evaluates the superintendent. So one of the one of the criteria for moving along the continuum of the rubric is that the board doesn't evaluate the superintendent on an annual basis unless it's evaluated itself first. So, those are sort of the three overarching themes of why we recommend this board self-evaluation. Um, any questions about that or any questions about the pre-ereading? >> Seeing a bunch of headshake. No, Carol. >> Okay. So now if everyone could get out the tool that was sent which was the spreadsheet and your copy of the these things you guys >> your copy of the um manual. We start by going through um each of the uh elements in
006the rubric. Um hold on for a minute. I'm going to grab my manual. So, and I I'm hoping that you all have had a chance to look at this, but we can do it together as well. And then the idea is that every quarter the board comes together. Well, first of all, after we get through this session, you'll have a baseline um score and at the end of the session, we'll all well you all will um generate a target for where you want to be next quarter. And so then when you come back and you know what you reasonably think you can attain within that um mindset uh within that um 3 month period between quarters um and then you'll come back and revisit is it what worked what didn't work sort of the same
007um the same way trying we're not trying we're working toward approaching how we measure progress of the district, you're going to measure your own progress. So, um, if we start with the vision and goals on page two in the rubric, um, let's spend some time going over where we think we are in terms of what color we're in. Are you guys in um, you're not in salmon, I'll tell you that. uh approaching, meeting or mastering. And so we can go through spend a few minutes going through the criteria and deciding um what scores you should get. The other thing is that the points that you would earn are on the top. You see zero for if you're in the salmon, 10 points if you're in approaching, 25 points if you're in the green, and 35
008points if you're in the blue. So, why don't you take a few minutes and look through that or we could go through it together. Your call, whichever you'd prefer. >> Um, you guys have a preference and we want to take a stab at where we're at. Well, >> you want Why don't we go through the first one and then we can do the others? >> Um, >> this is the one we're best at. >> Yeah. >> This is the one This is the one where we're on the board. >> That's right. >> Yes. >> I I I know for for me, I marked my box out like three different times because I started giving us a 10 and then I was like, "Wait a minute. It's possible that we deserve a 25, but I think
009maybe it warrants going through that. I know we don't we're not at 35, but um I was going back and forth between 10 and 25. I don't know how every >> Well, let's start in the uh approaching student outcomes. You've adopted goals in in collaboration with the superintendent. So, you can check off that one. You've adopted only smart goals. That one you can check off. No fewer than one and no more than five goals. Got that? Or superintendent hasn't adopted interims and they're also smart. So you got that. Are the interims um I think the answer to this is yes, but let's just double check. Are the interims updatable multiple times during each school year? I think that's true. >> When we went over that, >> they're saying yes. >> Okay. Okay. The board publicly
010posted the goals for public comment prior to adoption. They were published in your >> Yes, they were. >> Right. All right. So, you definitely have 10. That's five, is it? Or >> no, it's 10 in the little parentheses at the top in the color box. >> I thought we were on the salmon box still. >> We are not five. >> Okay, that's values and guardrails. >> Okay, sorry. Okay, I was like, what? >> Yeah, >> we should be on page two. >> Oh, just above it. Okay, got it. >> All right. Is everyone comfortable that road's goals all pertain to the desired stu to desired student outcomes? Yes. >> Okay. in addition to the goal ending points, the board has adopted annual targets goal ending points for each year leading up to the ending dates.
011>> That's the one I had a question mark by. I was like, were they annual targets? I don't know where we would >> if you go to um where your goals are published. >> Let's see where on your website or where the interims are. because you're supposed to monitor four times a year. So that means you're monitoring the three interims and then the fourth one should be an annual target for your goal. >> Okay, we're looking. >> Okay. >> Well, I'm going to go out on a limb and say if Jason Galloway did it, we probably did what we're supposed to be doing. you. >> Yeah. I was like I mean if Jason said yes then we >> thinking that Jason showed those to us and >> yeah we have it somewhere. >> Well I'm
012looking at the interim. These would be in our interim goals. >> No the interim. Well it >> no >> if you go to where they're on your website. >> Yeah. Well I'm looking at guardrails and goals. I'm having a hard time finding the inter. Yeah looking. Well, the interim goals are underneath goal one, two, and three, but >> it doesn't have the calendar though, right? >> It doesn't have the um >> But it does have an ending date of 2028, >> but not annual targets. >> Yeah. What's the metric? So, the first one, what's the metric for goal one? I don't have >> the median. So just pure goal one is the fourth graders demonstrating proficient advanced performance in reading on the OSTP will increase from 25% in August 2024 to 40% by August 2030.
013Interim goal 1A is the median achievement. >> Okay hold on just for a minute there. So there should be an annual target for that goal. >> I don't see that on target >> for what you get in 2020. Yeah, I don't see that on there. >> Years, >> but I'm looking for I I feel like what we're missing is the calendar, but you're right. On our website, it's not showing. So, >> so that might be a stopping point. >> Okay. Okay. That's okay. We're 10 points higher than we were last time. >> All right. And All right. Let's just look down because that might be the only one there. And that this is worth considering because you're going to jointly decide where you think you can be in the next quarter. So, going down to
014the next criteria, um, all item goals pertain to student outputs. Oh, all interim goals. Oh god, I'm tired. pertain to student outputs or student outcomes, not in adult in not inputs or adult outputs. >> Yes, >> I think we went around the barn a lot on that one. And I think you can check the box. Um the board includes students included students, parents, staff, and community members in the goal development process. >> Yes. >> Mhm. And um you had the 16,000 inputs to show it. Uh all board goals last from 3 to 5 years. All interim goals last from 1 to three years. >> Yes. Okay. The goals and interim goals will change the organization and will require change in adult behaviors. >> Okay. Wait, I'm sorry. Pause. I'm looking back at now. Our interim
015goals. Okay. All board goals last from 1 to five. 3 to five. All interim goals last from 1 to three. >> Right. But I'm looking at our interim just for instance goal 1A and it's talking about the growth from the 38th percentile in spring 2024 to 56th in spring 2028. >> Well, that's four years. >> That's four years, not two years. >> No, that's okay, though. >> To >> Well, so it's a little longer. >> Yeah, that's what I mean. It's a little longer. >> Okay. Yeah, that um you know I mean technically the interims are supposed to be um from 1 to three because in theory you want to make certain progress and then revisit it. >> Okay. Um, what I would suggest is we analyze the nature of that interim and find out
016if there's some reason why it makes sense for it to go for the four years. And I'm not remembering right now why that was. So we could put a >> question mark. >> Yeah. >> Which one are we looking at? All right. AJ wants to know which interim are you looking at? Oh, I was just now looking at interim 1A. >> Yeah, 1A, 1B, and 1 C all have that like 24 to 28. Like put in other numbers, but they all have that 24 to 28 time. >> Yeah. And I think you you want to understand why. >> Yeah. I look at those and I see those as being three years. Essentially, what has been provided is a previous baseline year. Uh but that's data going back. That's not data going uh forward. And so
017I think of from where we are today, you've got spring uh on a go forward basis, the data that you have now, spring 26, 27, and 28. >> Okay. Because winter 24 would be like sort of like a baseline because it's passed. >> Long past. >> Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. So it's really they're three years at this point. >> So >> yeah, from where from where you are right now, your your next data sets will be in the spring of 26, then spring of 27 and spring of 28. That's three years uh going forward for now. >> Okay. So we get a check for that one. >> Mhm. And then the last one, the goals and the interim goals will challenge the organization and will require change in adult behaviors. >> Yes. So, everyone
018satisfied with that? Okay. >> So, the only one on this one is the goal ending points. Is that the one that we're questioning? >> Okay. Well, annual targets. And so, Carol, for us, would this be like a So, is this a something where we would give ourselves 10 points today, but then we'd set a goal for getting to 25 by 3 months from today? >> Exactly. >> Okay. >> And we'll have that discussion at the end when we talk when you all decide um what you want to set as your own target and goal for the next quarter. >> Okay. All right. Everybody agree with that? Not agree with that? Got head shaking. Yes, Carol. >> All right. >> Are you all clear on uh what particular items you want to work on for the
019next three months? >> When we covered that, AJ, because um they don't actually have annual targets for the goal. So, they want that to be their objective, I believe. >> But we could look at blue >> and maybe we do, but we just don't >> right. >> Yeah. we're calling them something different or we don't have >> we don't know what they're called or we don't know where they are or >> I mean you know that it might be worthwhile looking at the blue column to see if there's something else in addition to that because that um is presumably not a really tough thing to accomplish once you >> get with super >> accomplished the first one on the We've accomplished the first one anyway. So, we're just looking at two. >> The board used
020a process that included students, parents, staff, and community members in a way that leads them to express ownership of the adopted goals. So, now the the difference the differential between green and blue is going from the you're satisfied that the board included students, staff, and parents to would the community say they own the goals? And that would be um something that you would have to agree among yourselves that >> I don't think we've really went back and asked them like I I don't think we've been a big push out that would give us any I mean I have had no input from the community after we adopted the goals just >> so we we didn't let them know what >> I think I mean we did if you follow agendas >> I mean if you
021don't follow agendas I don't necessarily know that we've asked for buyin on that but but we've been very transparent in what we've done as far as you know presenting the agendas and >> so I think the operative phrase there is in a way that leads them to express ownership of the adopted goals >> exactly that's why I'm saying I don't know that we've given them that >> and then the question for you all as a board is is that something you want to work toward Wow. >> And it, you know, I mean, and then we can go down to the others and you can kind of make your decision about collectively. >> I'm just going to say like for the next three months, to be clear, we're going into the holiday season, a lot of
022breaks. And so, whatever we say we want to make goals for, we also have to account for the time it would take us to get there. So, that's that's my only say on this. If this requires more meetings with the community, which is great to have meetings with the community, but it gets really tricky around the holidays to organize that. Um, we don't have very I mean, it just it gets kind of hectic from here on out. I don't know that that's a reasonable goal to shoot for a goal to have that in the next quarter, January, February, March. I feel like that's a pretty reasonable goal. we'll buy have some time back on our hands, but right now we're pretty tied up >> and you know and and you know to re to backward
023plan you might just want to talk about the process in the next quarter and then the implementation would be in the quarter that you're not as busy if that's what the board decides they want to move forward on. >> Now just one anyone else have any thoughts on that? Yeah, I mean I I think that makes sense because this to me also includes a communication aspect that is going to be um in you know it's going to include the staff um to help us figure out how we get the community to express ownership. This is it's well above my pay rate for sure. I'm not an expert in how to get the community to express ownership, but we do have to figure it out. So, I like the idea of making it a six-month like
024goal, but we discuss it at our next Is that what you mean, Carol? We kind of set it as like a >> Yeah. I mean, I I mean, I think you all have to decide your process. It It just occurs to me if it if it's a lofty objective, which this one is, and you and you think it's going to take more than that. Um but uh you know I think it's worth discussing and that's part of what the um purpose of this you know quarterly self-evaluation is is for you all to reach um >> I feel like it's time for us >> to get back out to the community but I don't necessarily know that this is the best time to get out to the community but we do need to get back to
025them. And so the only way I could see you could really gather, you know, you could you could you work with comms and we come up with a great way to just give more information, some like highlevel talking points or this is what the board has done. These are the goals. You know, we could send a survey that says, do you feel like you were you had a chance to be included in this? Do you feel like it was transparent? We could do that or we could make a plan for the next three months of how to implement it coming January. >> Yeah. I I >> would that count if we make a plan like October, December, have the plan and then implement starting in January. Could we cross that off? Could we call that
026our goal and cross that off um the next evaluation? >> I think you could cross it off when you've achieved it, but you're not going to achieve it unless you start doing it probably with a six-month lead time as opposed to a three-month lead time. I think that's probably >> what you guys are saying. But I mean, again, this is not um >> Meg, what were you saying, Meg? >> Yeah, I was just going to say in the context of that, we've got five more of these things to evaluate. Um I don't feel comfortable setting what goals we're going to be working on because I don't know what else we need to tackle in the next 3 months. And this is a really huge one to start getting in front of people >> between now
027and the holidays. And so I do recommend that we do that for Q1 instead of trying to tackle it between now and the end of the year. >> Yeah. I I think starring this and getting through the rest of the rubric is a good idea because other priorities may emerge makes it exactly right. >> Okay. Great. So right now we're landing on a >> what you'll see with some of the other ones is that there's going to be a lot of areas where it's going to be valuable to be in uh interacting with your community. Um, and so one thing you might be just thinking in the back of your mind is um, is there a more systemic approach we want to take to this over a multi-year uh, approach rather than something that's just
028episodic for the next 3 or 6 months? Is there just a standing approach to community outreach engagement that we want to just build into our normative practice? And so be thinking about that as you go through some of the others because that might also be an approach to take. >> Yeah, that's good. That was the other thing I was going to mention because I think there is some movement on you know what what can engagement look like. So you know there might be a two birds with one stone here >> um going forward on board engagement. >> So right now we're landing on 10 points for July through September. >> Yes. >> Right. Okay. All right. And then the other thing just so you know um you know you'd usually do the well we'll get
029to it when we talk about the percentage of time. All right moving along values and guard rails page three. Does anybody want to toss out where you think you are? What' you give us? Did y'all give us a I give us a Oh gosh, I did too. >> I can go on this one. I gave ourselves a a five. Um and so on this um this particular section. So values and guardrails. Um I mean do do we need to go through each column or so? We've we've definitely >> agree with the five. Does anybody not agree with five points that salmon color is met? We all tend to agree that everything on salmon is met. So that would bring us to green. So do we want to go through the greens? >> The first one.
030>> Well, the the orange we've achieved. >> Yes. >> Yeah. We think we've got the orange ones. >> Okay. So orange. Sorry. >> Interesting. >> I Yeah. >> Yeah. the meeting outcome focus the green >> superintendent provided interarm guardrail ending points for each year >> the theories of action is where I got stuck I I don't really remember that word coming up but I probably could have been through it too I don't know but I don't remember theory of action being discussed >> nor could I identify the ending points for each year leading up to the ending date >> I didn't I couldn't put my finger on what where we would find that and the theories of action one as well. I agree. >> Well, let's look at the interim guard rails first and see
031if they've got ending points. Are they on the um website? >> Well, it says each year leading up to the ending date. And that's what we were saying. We don't know on the first on the on the uh visioning goals. We're still at that point. It's like we're not sure it probably if we had the calendar in front of us. I just don't have the calendar in front of us. >> The the calendar for the You mean the monitoring calendar? >> No, it wouldn't be in our modern calendar. >> It's in it. >> It's for the list that we were I was given Craig was given in regards of what to print out and have ready for you all. These things we have, but we didn't print them off. As you all keep talking, I'll
032have Craig print them off. You We've had this, but they're just not readily at your fingertips. And that's not >> Are they supposed to be on the website? >> The interim guards. Where are they? >> They are the >> the interims. Are are they the same ones that are on the website? >> Thank you. >> I think we're we're having a discussion. There's >> So, there's interim guard rails, but then this says interim guardrail ending points for each year. So, we have guard rails, but they're general for a three-year time period. >> Yeah, your your guardrails are not smart, but uh like the goals are, but the interim guard rails are intended to be smart like your interim goals are. And so, you'll see the starting point will going from 20% to the ending point.
033Uh we're trying to get to 50%. Um and so you're just looking to see that both the starting point and the ending point are there like what what is true um for our school system today and what will be true when we get to the ending date for this particular interim guard route. >> So it's not for each year because how it's written in the um matrix that we're looking it says ending points for each year leading up to the ending date. So I guess I interpreted that as like at the end of 2025, at the end of 2026 and 27, but is that not right? >> Yeah. The intention is that there both for goals and for your interims, the intention is that you have an ending point. So the goal maybe says we're
034going from, you know, 30% to 70%. Um over a 5year period. And then you'd expect that you have an annual target for each year between those two points to figure out are we on track. Same thing with the interim goals and interim guards. You should have a starting point and an ending point. What percent is it now? What percent will it be three years from now? But then ideally you have an annual target for each year in between. >> Okay. >> Um and sometimes with for interim goals and guardrails if it's only a one or two year then there wouldn't be a annual target because there's not an intervening year. Uh but if it's a three-year interim, then it should have an annual target for the middle year. >> Okay. >> So, I think we
035pressed pause on that because we think we have them. We just don't have them in front of us. Like, we don't have them right now in front of us. They exist and they're not on the website. So, we they're somewhere maybe. So, can we just put a pen in this one and >> Okay, >> put a question mark. >> All right, we can put a question mark there. And while we're at it, I mean, do you want to go through the others or just leave it at um Well, the in interim guard rails pertain to outputs or outcomes? >> Yep. >> Yes. >> Mhm. Well, I mean, if we have the interim guard rails, then we know whether there's ending points or not. So, that's got me I gota >> I'm trying to find them
036on your website, but >> yeah. All right. Well, let's keep moving because we're going to click around on time here. We're 30 minutes in and we've got several left to go. So, um >> Okay. Aside from understanding the ending points each year, we can clarify that shortly. Then the theories of actions seems to be the only one that anyone else believes on that one. Um I'm more I don't really like theories of action feels like that that's going to be a bigger conversation, right? >> That's going to have to be a work session or something. >> The theories of action because we've not addressed that with them so far. >> Yeah. And so this is for each board to decide. uh theory of action is traditionally more of a managerial tool to help uh create
037coherence and alignment in large organizations. If you were a really small school district, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. But for districts of your size, uh sometimes it is helpful uh for them to be a theory of action. Uh the superintendent could adopt one or the board could say, you know, there are things that are so essential to the DNA of our district uh that we need a theory of action that we articulate that goes a step deeper. um into alignment for the organization. So for example, I'm thinking of another school system that uh their big thing is um um dual um >> language immersion. Um and so they built a theory of action around their language immersion work. Uh essentially saying that these are strategic means that it doesn't really matter who the
038superintendent is. they are bound to these because this is just part of our DNA. Um, you know, or I'm thinking of another school system where u an earned autonomy approach is just part of their DNA and it's so important that they wanted to write it down to indicate like this is a managerial means but it is such an essential part of our DNA that we absolutely this needs to stay consistent regardless of who the superintendent is. In fact, it should be part of how we decide who is appropriate not to be a superintendent. And so it is a larger conversation for you all to have. The first conversation being is that true for us? Are there things that are so essential, you know, to the DNA of our organization that they are managerial means that
039the board needs to um put in place in the form of a of a theory of action. or if that's not the case, then the board can simply say that that makes sense, but that's not necessary for us at this time. Um, it's fine if the superintendent adopts one. And so that's the nature of the conversation you all would have. Um, and that's just something we can >> typically folks get a little bit into monitoring their goals and guard rails and then once they've lived with that for a while, they have a better sense of is this a sufficient set of governance tools for us or do we need something additional? Yes. So, it's not required. It's something we consider along the way. >> That's absolutely correct. >> Yes. >> But that would keep us
040from moving to mastering student outcomes unless somebody does a theories of action, whether it be the superintendent or the board. >> No, cuz Paula, it says has considered. Oh has considered. Okay. So it's not mandatory. >> Okay. >> Right. >> And then guard rails last from interim guard rails last from 1 to 3 years. Just looking at them briefly. I think they probably have that. >> Yep. >> That's a calendar. Yep. That's something different. >> Thank you. >> If they ask y >> So what Craig handed out is what I can see is on the website. So that I don't know that still answers. Yeah, the annual stuff. But >> it's in the B. It's in the little boxes. Yes, ma'am. >> We're looking at it, right? That's what this is. I'm reading it. >>
041Exact same thing. Yes, ma'am. >> Right. >> I know. >> Okay. So, where'd we end on that? Five on values and guard rails. >> Mhm. >> Okay. and with a to-do item to figure out if there are end points and if not that might be the area to focus to make the jump pretty quickly. >> Yep. >> And is there anything in the remaining column? >> Well, the first one is the same one we already talked about which is the ownership. And I think it seems like if we're going to talk about this, we can talk about it in a way that talks about the guard rails and the values as well as the goals and the vision. The vision and goals. So >> you're in blue right now, Lori. Right. >> Right. That that's
042the first one. The first one in the blue column is similar to the one the first one that we already talked about that spending some time building or or trying to figure out how we want to get the community to um express ownership. Okay. So to sum up five with an action item to focus on whether there are ending points and you just don't have them on the website or not. >> Yeah. Okay. >> And to consider um or or to include the top item in the blue column in conjunction with when you consider it for the um vision from the previous discussion because that's sort of the same set of actions to determine whether the community expresses ownership or not. All right, >> sounds good to me. >> Okay, moving along to monitoring and
043accountability. Now, I can tell you um that I uh went through your board minute meeting meeting minutes from um June 2nd through October 6th. And I sent um your chair and vice chair and Dr. Poke and Craig um a spreadsheet of where your time use ended up. And for purposes of this discussion um what you need to know is that in that period of time which is more than a quarter I kind of went back further um you spent 5% of your time monitoring. And given that you just started monitoring, that's pretty good. Um, I will provide a package to all the board members with a complete um the detail that backs up that spreadsheet in the next few days so that you can all see the complete time use evaluation because it's um broken
044out into each of the um uh uh the domains of the rubric. Um but just a little teaser, you had a lot of time in training which is to your credit. >> Mhm. >> Um and so uh as we go forward that monitoring is only going to increase. Um but I just um and I just also want to just say I said this to um uh the board chair, vice chair, and superintendent earlier today. um you know, relative to your uh peers across the country, you guys run a tight ship in terms of your meetings. Um I know that, you know, everybody feels like it could be better wherever you are. Um, and you're probably more self-critical than you should be, but you guys really do, um, run, you know, efficient meetings and, you know,
045there's some boards across the country where their meetings go on for five hours and they're kind of, you know, uh, spectacle in the community sometimes even and you have none of that going on. So I think that um it's easy to get caught up in how you guys want to see you know you see your whatever failings or you want to improve and so you're you know being critical but um you should give yourselves some credit for um being a really pretty impressive well functioning board. You're solid group of individuals. So anyway I just >> way to go board members. Good job. >> Way to go. >> AJ I mean we talked about this briefly today. Can you just weigh in a little just to give them some perspective? >> Uh, none of your members
046have been indicted, are being carted off to jail, are engaged in bribery screams, are involved in I mean, uh, are busy fighting each other in parking lots and so on and so forth. Uh, these are all examples of behavior that we've had to deal with in the last year. Um, the reality is that there is some fairly toxic, you know, board service out there. Um and you all are blessed and that that's not your struggle. Your struggle is how do we leverage the healthy dynamic we have to be more effective for children. Uh being having a healthy dynamic is not a promise of effectiveness. It is just an opportunity to be effective. And so you all have secured for yourself the opportunity to really be dialed into uh a focus on student outcomes and really
047driving performance in your organization that other boards can't even get there yet because they can't get out of their own way. >> Question. >> Yes, >> AJ. Uh this is Mike Shelton. I was just curious. Uh of course Oklahoma has a law like no others and I just feel like that we need to uh make sure that we tell the story, tell the whole story uh when we talk about how wonderfully organized we are. But we have a law in the state of Oklahoma that prohibits state I mean our uh school board members from uh actively engaging in some situations except the except the board chair. Uh do you have any other school districts in the United States that operate like Oklahoma City public schools? Yeah. So, you all do have a fairly unique situation,
048not only uh in Oklahoma, I mean, you're unique among districts in the state in the >> It's not new. It's been law since 2000 where it allows only the board chair to decide the agenda. >> Yeah, you all are definitely unique even in Oklahoma. That being said, u there are several other districts nationwide where there is a board chair who is selected uh by uh differently than the rest of the board. Um and so it is very very very uncommon. Um and it certainly is my understanding unique in Oklahoma. Uh but it's not entirely without precedent. Uh what we would what we would say however is that uh regardless of how state law is articulated uh that the board should still strive to kind of act as a unit rather than as a group of
049individuals. Um and that's inclusive of the board chair. The board chair uh should strive to act uh as a board member who has certainly been um empowered uh whether by statute or by their board with additional authorities but to execute those authorities on behalf of the body corporate not on behalf of themselves. And so in that regard yeah there is there is difference in the roles but that should not prevent the board from pursuing a united uh set of behavior to to operate as a body not as a group of individuals. [Music] And I think that's where the training or the end of the last session was heading with the board procedures and policies is that you take that collective agreement and you integrate it into policy. All right. Shall we move on to >>
050So, we ended with uh on monitoring accountability. >> Well, no, that's where I wanted to look. >> Yeah, that's what I was. Okay. >> But I think based on the information you gave us for the first one under the approaching student outcomes focus, we're currently at five. So, we're a zero for that category, but getting from five to 10 feels feels doable, >> right? >> So, that could be um an area of focus for our next quarter. >> Does everyone um has everyone had a chance to look down that column, the approaching student outcomes column that's kind of the beigy buff color? There are any other items in there that anyone has a thought about? >> This will be our first year starting probably Aprilish Mayish that we start doing the first superintendent evaluation based
051on the board's goals, guardrails and interim goals. So I don't feel like we're going to be able to move past whatever color we're calling between pink and green orange I guess orange until we get to the next superintendent evaluation piece. I I just don't feel like we come up with 10 points until then. >> All right. So, in this in this domain, those are the two we're keeping our eyes on. >> I guess >> what else do you see in the remaining columns? >> What AJ, sorry. Sid. Um, what are what are some other potential next steps that you see in the next two columns? >> I feel like moving too much above until we finish our big amounts of training, which was 47% of our time over the last quarter is what coach Carol
052sent. We have multiple trainings coming up this month. And so, we're still going to be heavy-handed on training, which is great, but it's going to make it hard for our monitoring the next time to really bump us up probably to that 10%. We may get close, but until we complete kind of this heavy series of training, I don't know that we're going to be able to add enough. There's not enough to take away from our agenda to make up that percentage in my opinion. >> Do you have the uh SOFG manual in front of you right now? >> Yes. Yeah, I think >> you know immediately after the six pages of the self-evaluation, the multicolored pages, uh there's a glossery that has definitions. Um could somebody uh what we're talking about right now is how
053much of your board authorized public minutes are being used to really monitor progress. Could somebody read the definition for board authorized public meetings uh in the glossery for me? I got you. So, board authorized public meeting. Is that was that the word? Yep. Any non-privileged meeting authorized by the board or board chair, including but not limited to board workshops, board hearings, and board committees. Legally mandated hearings are exempted from this definition. Trainings led by a certified student outcomes focused governance coach may be exempted from this definition. So, our trainings don't >> What I'm suggesting is if that was the only thing that stood in your way of really demonstrating that you're focusing half of your time on student outcomes, then I would just set those I would remove those uh from the equation and move
054on. Now, I don't think that's the only thing that's holding you back right now. So there's still some more systemic things to work on. So I wouldn't think about that too much. I just didn't want you to be overly worried uh that an abundance of training, which early on is a necessary part of the journey um is going to hold you back. Uh because if you got to the point where you were at 45% of your time is focused on student outcomes um but then you've got 10 hours of meetings in there, then we um in our calculation would simply remove uh those trainings um to better reflect how the board actually chose to spend its time. >> Okay. out of 664 minutes, 309.5 was training. And so if we took the 310 away, we
055definitely be above 5%. But I'm just saying like, >> yeah, it yeah, basically double. Um, so like I said, that's not going to be the difference maker that has you 50%. So I wouldn't worry about it right now, but just know that if we got to the point where that actually was a differencemaker, we would account for that on your behalf. >> Yeah. Okay. Good. All righty. >> Yep. >> Anything else in the remaining two columns? This is a pretty dense one. >> It is, but I think that a lot of it has uh like we it's kind of taking care of itself if we follow our our calendar because several of the ones in the next column are, you know, monitoring the goal at least four times a year. guardrail is monitored at least
056once a year. So, I think once we get into this using our um calendar, we're gonna start checking more of these things off our list and moving up. >> Um I have a question. Are we still looking at monitoring and accountability? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um my question is actually um so I see on the green uh meeting student outcomes um that the board would have to be provided copies but we do not necessarily have to vote to approve or disapprove them unless it's a it's a law. So are we does does anybody know >> of what you kind of started mid-sentence there. >> Sorry. Do does anybody know if if it's law for us to vote to approve or disapprove a plan? the superintendent's plan for implementing the board goals. >> That's kind of
057that big paragraph on the on the green. >> It's not state law that I know of. >> Okay. >> But I could be really wrong. I'm not the attorney. Tony, >> AJ, am I accurate for saying like some in some states they have to uh vote for on the strategic plan? Uh there are states where there's like school improvement plans and things like that that are required to be submitted uh to the state. Uh that's that's a pretty common thing. Um and that where that exists, it's often that the state expects the board to vote on that before it's sent in. Um but what we are suggesting um is if the superintendent the superintendent should definitely have a plan that outlines how they're going to accomplish the goals. That should be a non-negotiable. you should
058expect your uh employee to have a real clear handle on what's the strategy she's going to use to accomplish the goals. Um but unless law requires it, then no, we encourage you not to vote on that plan. Let her have the elasticity of being able to modify it as things for children change on the ground. But you should always know whether she has one or not. Um, and it's completely appropriate for you to have a copy and know kind of where she's leading the organization. Also, when you are conducting monitoring, if she has a plan for accomplishing the goals and you're looking at monitoring reports and these look like completely unrelated documents, that's also a bit of a red flag. >> Okay. >> Thank you. And um and I did want to also uh point
059out that on the on the second column, the orange one, approaching student outcomes focus for 10 points, the board considers superintendent performance to be indistinguishable. So the very last sentence from school system performance and so um is that going to be an understanding amongst the board like a complete understanding? >> Yeah, I don't have an answer to that. anyone. So is this clarifying that we're basically this would be related to the evaluation that is aligned with the goals. >> Mhm. >> Is that are you >> okay? I think that makes sense. >> Does that make sense? the evaluation tool >> is directly court like it is. >> Okay. >> It matches the goals. I think it that's what that's saying. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. It it's it's driving at our coaching which
060is that um the superintendent's evaluation should be tied to the goals and the guardrails and not other criteria that would sort of um dilute the importance of going after the goals and guardrails because then the superintendent would be going after the goals and guard rails and whatever the other criteria were. So we're basically in the rubric that's where you find that thread of coaching reflected and the way you know that the board considers superintendent performance to be indistinguishable from school system performance is that the evaluation is tied just to the goals and guardrails. The superintendent's evaluation Okay. Any other thoughts about this domain before we move on? >> All right. Page five, communication and collaboration. >> Uh I'm sorry. Um one other thing on the mastering focus column on monitoring and accountability. Um I because
061this is going to become relevant over the next few months. Someone read the second to last one under the mastering column. >> If the board approves an annual budget, it does so only after determining that the board's goals are the first priority for resource allocation. >> What does that mean? There will be a presentation from the superintendent about her the annual budget she's presenting and how it aligns with the board's goals. Maybe >> and if she can't demonstrate that alignment, then our coaching is that's not the budget for you. If if you're saying that these are the communities of vision for what students should know and be able to do, then it's expected that she should be able to show that there's an increasing amount of line. doesn't mean that every single penny is spent
062on the goals. That's not what it means. But it means that she's showing that there's a priority of resources applied there and that that priority is growing over time, not just staying the same or declining. >> I have a comment about that. Um AJ, I do appreciate you pointing that out. uh our superintendent I think has reminded me a couple times and uh has kind of said it also that if if you want to know where an entity's values lie well you look at where they're spending their money. So I think uh this makes sense and um superintendent has said andor shown things like this before communication and collaboration. Next page says that the board will lead transparently and include stakeholders in the pursuit of the goals. >> Well, we're currently a zero, >> but
063>> I agree. But uh but we can I can see us moving up the Well, it looks like if you go down though, well, first of all, I'm not really sure who's going to how we're going to handle the tracking of our time because I I'm not going to be able to track the time for us. I'm just going to say that out loud. It's not be something I'm going to do. Anybody else wants to volunteer to watch something and do it, they can, but I I can't do that. Um, but the leadership evaluation, board self, board time, use of, and superintendent of Al, again, this pushes us a little bit out to get out of that column just because we won't have done the superintendent of AL based on board goals and guardrails until
064late next spring, early summer. Can you say that last part again, Paul? I'm not >> We won't The superintendent of AL for the first time won't be until late spring or early summer for the first time over goals and guard rails, the evaluation piece that we just finished. So, we won't be able to move into that one point. I just looked up there and saw there was one point, one point. >> What are you looking at? >> It says it down there. If you keep going down, it says leadership evaluation board self board time use of and superintendent of >> I don't see that. Where's that on >> page communication and collaboration right? >> Oh, >> you're on that >> right here. >> Communication. >> Oh. Oh, hello >> board. >> All right. So that
065that if we're in the >> oh >> one point comp it says the board tracks its use time. >> It's just the time >> in one it's one of the categories is need you need not >> so the fact that you're not necessarily accomplishing that it's just that you're allocating your time in order to manage or to review where you spend your time. >> Yeah. Those are just the buckets. >> Okay. >> Right. That we that we put like the number of minutes in. And but to Paula's question, who does track that time? How is that done? >> I think I mean boards do it differently. Uh organizations do it differently. Sometimes you know the board staff will do that um and and generate it and then the board can um put and put it
066in the consent agenda and the board members have a chance to review it and then vote on it on a monthly basis. Are any districts using any version of AI to track it to where it's just automatically done at the end of the meeting? >> AJ, you're going to have to answer that one. >> Yes. >> Okay. Solid answer. >> No kidding. >> Please. >> Yes. because we've been working on this project and I'm thankful to see Eric Hyman in the room and please note he and his team is working on and when he uh was at when it was just asked in regards of AI he did the thumbs up. They are playing with a lot of different things and so I just want to acknowledge we do know that this is a major
067undertaking and so uh we will um embed technology as much as we can. Have I spoken correctly? Yes, sir. >> Yeah. >> Well, and also, you know, I I can spend some time training people. It's not if you if you keep up with it. I mean, I didn't and so I was doing a whole bunch of them in the past few days. But it it's not a hu you you know, it can be done at the end of a meeting. >> I was just thinking that can't you do it during the meeting? >> Like you could just literally, you know, like oh, we've just >> Yeah, we could. and then kind of mesh it up at the end of the meeting of what we all got. And >> yeah, I can I don't see this.
068I'm not volunteering from this seat during a meeting. >> Oh, no. That's not No, it wouldn't be you. >> Yeah. So, certainly we will provide uh training >> um for board members. Um we'll certainly provide training for staff. >> Um we can certainly support staff as they're trying to look for tools. That being said, we frequently encourage each of the board members to do at least one month of time use evaluation just so you have a sense of uh of in a very different way than having lived it, a sense of how the board is spending its time. Uh we find that it just helps board members have an insight into their own meetings when you go back and replay the video just like effective coaches do. I mean, there's a reason effective coaches who
069want to win games go back and replay the video even though they were on the sideline for the whole game. It's ju it's just a way to help grow in their understanding of how do we win more games. And so even if the long-term solution is staff do it or AI does it, we'd still encourage board members who want to position themselves to win more games for children to at least take on one month. And certainly, Carol, I would support you in doing so. Okay. Thank you. >> All right, Paula. >> yes. Um, yeah, and I think to to your point as well, I mean, if we if we can get this uh tracking of our time during our meetings, um, I think we could get that one point. And then looking at just uh
070the column, the green column, um it seems like the rest of these are pretty doable too. And so it's pretty exciting um that Dr. Pulk, you talked a little bit about Mr. Hman. So thank you for the work and advancing technology and even within our systems here in OKCPS. And before we go too far, um, Coach AJ, will you please share, if not now, later, which districts are using the AI software so our team can save a little time because they are actually doing this um after meetings on their own. So, if there's any way you can uh accelerate that, we would greatly appreciate it. >> Yes, ma'am. the reflections on communications and collaboration. I mean, I think this is another one where I see us going once we get over the hurdle of the
071time tracking, seeing us like very quickly get through the next section because we can already check several of those off um and head to the the mastering section. >> Strongly agree. >> Yeah. Yeah, same. >> Any other reflections before transitioning to the next page? >> I have a question on approaching student outcome focus. The board reviews all policies governing board operating procedures at least once during every length of time equal to a board member's term of office. So every four years, every policy needs to be looked at. >> Hold on. Uh where are you at? >> I'm under approaching student. Oh, sorry. I might have skipped down one. Sorry. I I thought we were finished up with that one. I went on. >> Yeah. Uh did anybody else in Nobody else had a question or
072comment? Then yes, we are moving on. Did anybody else have something on communication and collaboration? Otherwise, we'll jump straight to that one. I'm I'm seeing head shaking. No. >> Okay. So, we're in unity and trust. And so, your question uh is should the board actually moni uh review its own policy to figure out is this policy still relevant? Is it still a meaningful um description of our community's values? Um should the board do uh review each of its policies at least once every four years in your case? And we would say yes. um that if a board is going to be um fully accountable for the policy that it sets, then that does mean it needs to monitor that policy on a regular basis. We'd say at least annually. Um and it needs to review
073that policy at least once u every uh member's term. So in your case, once every four years. Um, and that as you begin to adopt so much policy where that's no longer the case, then you wind up where a lot of districts are, where they've got policy on the books from the 70s that nobody's looked at in decades. Um, and that may still be a drag on the organization um or a drag on the board's time, but the board has not taken the appropriate steps to to limit that drag on its time. So does that become a policy calendar of review? is that I mean because we've had a policy committee in the past and when it that policy committee began gosh nine 10 years ago it was one particular board member Carrie Jacobs in
074district 3 who her goal was to have moved this committee through every single policy before her ter term was up and uh she got close but but our understanding we've kind of pushed back on we've kind of removed away from the policy committee because we didn't feel like it met the definition of a committee like timebased and a goal but in order to have every policy reviewed and not miss it like it feels like it's going to have to be something regularly scheduled or Tony shaking said yes our attorney this just can't happen haphazardly in our district like it's going to have to be and I I don't necessarily know that it's realistic that I mean how many policies do we have Tony that we're going to have a be able as a whole board
075review enough policies every year to make sure they're all looked at every four years >> total. Um, and out of those about 90 or a little over 90 are required by law that they have to be a policy that's set by the board. Um, I don't know what other states look like, but at least for Oklahoma, there are about 90 that we have to have that must be policies that come from the board. Um, outside of some of the more regular things that we need a policy on from an operating standpoint. Um, some of those have been converted to regulation over time. So, those have helped reduce some of that, but there are a lot. So, I'm glad this is a part of that conversation of what does that monitoring look like when you have
076at a minimum 90 policies and and getting through those through a year would be each board meeting would be a substantial amount of time. >> Well, even if you did it four if you split that 90 over four years, it's 23 policies a month that this board 23 policies a year, which is almost two policies a month on business meetings that we'd have to review. And that could be brought I can see how that could be brought on an information agenda and let the board see it, but I just I mean you guys you guys answer make you guys weigh in on this. >> Well, I guess I didn't envision it being I mean I think when you I mean correct me if I'm wrong coaches, but when you say the board reviews all policies,
077I mean I I don't know. Couldn't this be a like it's a committee that works with the staff or are you really saying that like the full board basically how I was envisioning this going after the policy diet and Tony and I haven't had a we've been trying to trying to meet to talk about how we would tackle it but that like there are some you know there could be a review done with the ones that rise to the top being discussed or contemplated by a timelimited committee of the board that would then like bring the ones that are most urgent or are you truly saying that the full board at the dis needs to review 22 policies a year [Music] to get through all 90 policies. Can it be committee work basically? >> So
078here's so there there are multiple ways of accomplishing this and you're thinking about one of them. One of them is uh you know we have uh how many pages total of policy did you all say you had? >> 180 90 are due are by law that have to be there 90 are not by law that have to be there. >> Is it 180 pages or 180 policies? >> 180 policies and 90 policies. >> Gotcha. Gotcha. Um and so one way of thinking about this is yeah how do we you know divide this up um and um and the board um tackle all of these um and that is a completely appropriate way to go about it. That would be very time consuming as you all are wrestling with. Um, you know, another way of thinking
079through this is which of these is the board actually want to express ownership of versus which of the ones is the board delegating responsibility for uh to the superintendent. Um, and that is a conversation that the board will have uh when we go through a more comprehensive review process of the policies um is that there are certainly policies that the board absolutely cannot delegate to anyone. So, for example, um hiring, firing, evaluating the superintendent, it's not really delegable work. That's so so the board's going to have to own that uh one way or another. And so, that's just something that you can't release. Um but I'm certain as you go through the process, you will find like every board before you uh that there are policies on the books that uh the board is not
080actually interested in, uh taking an ownership view of that the board doesn't actually want to do the work on that. you actually want to delegate it to the superintendent in which case uh the monitoring and review of it you know uh you pass on as well the ultimate adoption of it uh you all may legally have to uh may have to do legally but we have a process for that um as part of the the larger review process and so when we get into that process we'll talk through this but the short answer is yes it is very doable um you can do it by spending a whole lot more time uh monitoring a lot of policies. Uh or you can do it by using a uh more reasonable amount of time uh monitoring and
081reviewing just the policies the board uh does not delegate uh authority over. Uh but that is a convers that is the larger review conversation uh that we'll have later on in this process. >> I have a clarifying question um as well about that. So, in reviewing all policies governing board operating procedures, so when I first read that, I just thought it was like the B-01, B-02 and not all of the policies, but is is so are we saying that all of the policies are board operating procedures? >> No. When we talk about ones that deal with board operations, we're really just talking about that one uh that there is a subset of your policies that talk about how do we run a meeting, how do we uh schedule items, how do we um vote on
082officers, you know, things of that nature. Um the things that just describe how you all as a body function. Um you know, that's inclusive of things like how elections are handled um and so on and so forth. And so there there is a subset of your overall uh policies that speak to how the board conducts itself. That's what we mean when we talk about uh the board's operating procedures. Is that responsive to your inquiry? >> Yeah. There's not 90 of those then. >> Yes. So there's not 180. >> Definitely not. >> Yeah. Okay. >> 16. >> Okay. >> Yeah. because like personnel, I mean, we're not going to we're not going to nitpick, you know, that's not within our we're not going to, you know, have a lot of input into those. Yeah. >> Question
083about unity and trust. to circle back to um that last comment. I think that part of why that um uh criteria is there and it's not quite as burdenome is because it anticipates that the process that AJ just described about going through and deciding which which um policies the board wants to maintain um supervisory um authority over um is already completed. So you what's left should be mostly just board operating procedures. >> Did you say that again? >> What's left after you analyze the 180 policies and the 90 policies that um >> well they fall yeah what's left falls into four main categories. Uh the policies about your community's vision, we call those goals. The policies about your community's values, we call those guardrails. the policies about how the board wants to function, we refer
084to those as governance and policies about the board's relationship with its uh direct reports and we call that delegation. Uh those are things that um and much of that is probably already covered in the 90 p in the 90 um and where there's not then we can certainly help you augment but those are the things that we're talking about when we say what are the ones that the board wants to own it's usually things uh in one of those four buckets. And so when we talk about operating procedures you know it's really in the governance bucket of policies. We talk about your relationship with the superintendent that's the delegation bucket. And then there's the goals and guardrails that pretty much everything is going to fit into one of those four buckets at the end of
085your review. Um, but that's part of your job as a board is to try to identify which of those buckets things fall into and which are things that the board uh that fall outside of that the board wants to delegate responsibility over to the uh superintendent. >> Yes. >> Hi, Coach AJ. This is Jamie. Please let me reiterate because coach Carol, you sent out a document to us regarding the board policy manual which actually are identifying those exact same areas for clarification aligned with with board uh member Jessica. That's what we're talking about is the governance of that section that has 16 policies that in order for us to move through this rubric we need to accomplish as uh board member Lori said to get through the 180 is not what we are actually attempting
086to do but to get through this workbook page that you've given us. Is that the correct understanding? >> Okay, thank you. >> Well, it's it's however many wind up in that board. >> I respect that, but it still fits in the four of >> but it's often it's those four buckets and it's often less than 90. Yes. >> Yes, sir. >> And you know, and if for some reason there's something else on the list of 90 that the board wants to retain supervisory authority over, that would get added in. And so there has to be an intentionality about deciding what that universe of policies are that the board's maintaining its authority over. >> Does that make sense? >> Yeah, that makes sense because there's a whole bucket of policies that we have no choice. like
087you know the district comes to us and says okay you have these six policies based on the last session of the legislature and um you know so those are just like we have to so >> and and some of them you can delegate and some of them you can and some of them you want to delegate and some of them you don't and you know >> probably many more are delegable or you would like to delegate than the opposite All right. So, realistically before next quarter, we could have a goal to adopt an ethics and conflicts of interest statement most likely. That feels like we pretty we have a very close one that we have to do just when we file for every year, Craig. Right. We have to do that every year. The ethics
088thing and the financial we have to fill something out for the state every year. So, it's not specific to our board, but we kind of do that. It's not It's a conflicts of interest statement. Um, it's not necessarily an ethics statement, though, I don't believe. >> Mr. General Counsel, can you come up and speak to the financial statement that they filed with the ethics commission? So yes, there are financial disclosures that is that are required at filing um also each year. Um it used to be that those would be maintained by the board clerk. The law was changed this year. So those are actually turned into the ethics commission starting this coming year. Um but yes, there are some requirements. Now it's it's it's not very uh it's pretty broad what's required to be filed.
089Um, but there are other ethical requirements in the law as to contracting, nepotism, things like that that could also be included. But I have started looking at that policy already to be sure that we get that updated to be in line with uh covering everything that we're required by law. Um, but also in line with our student outcome focused governance. >> Yes. Thank you so much, Tony. Thank you uh for that. And uh he if you did not hear what he said that schoolboard members have to report finances and stuff to the state ethics commission, I want to advise that if you have not educated yourself, you can find yourself uh not in the uh it it can mess you up if you do not educate yourself. And so I don't know if there's going
090to be any plans to train elected officials, Tony, or whatever, but it it is definitely one of those things. Please, as an elected official, do not take that lightly. It is it's critical that you make sure your paperwork is filled in filled out on time or you're going to get stuck with the sizable penalty that you will have to pay. are going to provide training. >> May I speak? >> Um, and please note I am grateful to have board clerk sitting beside me on today during our work session, but he would like for me to state that he and the legal counsel are on calendar to ensure that this is done. And he will, the board clerk, Mr. Kates will be getting with you all individually to ensure all paperwork is done. Yes. >> Okay.
091So, I'm comfortable. We're a zero on unity and trust. Is that where we're sitting? >> Okay. Just making sure. Everybody else good with that? Any follow-up questions? >> All right. Um, have you all taken a look at in the mastering focus column? Are you wanting us to look for a goal or just look at it in general? >> There are just four items there um that are worth uh working on now so they don't slow you down later. And we're happy to answer any questions if folks have them. If not, uh, then we can certainly proceed with to continuous improvement. >> I think everybody's ready to move on to continuous improvement to what it looks like. >> All right. Then I guess my final question for union and trust is have the board members adopt
092have the board members memorized the goals? >> I bet everybody has three memorized. Maybe not the exact percentages, but I bet you can name the three titles, right? Yes, they do. >> Excellent. Uh, what questions do you have about continuous improvement? I'm curious um if you can give a little more detail on the second one under approaching student outcomes focus um about tracking the average annual cost of staff time invested in governance and >> yeah we we have a tool for that and we can provide that to your superintendent so that you can do that once per year. Okay. >> AJ, can you just elaborate a bit about what it the purpose of it is or the reasoning is behind doing that? >> Certainly. It's just it's helpful for the board to make sure that
093it is not underinvesting or overinvesting in governance. like governance is an investment and it is appropriate for the school system to make an investment in effective governance. Uh but it is also valuable for the board to know are we over investing or are we underinvesting and so this is just an annive governance >> and by investment like it are you I mean I assume maybe I'm off base here that you know if if the staff is spending a lot of time preparing for meetings and then debriefing and following up after meetings. Um, the board needs to be aware of that so they may course correct in order to not take up so much time. >> There's a board that went through this once and was astonished to find that they were spending about $250,000 per
094month in staff time on board meetings. Uh, needless to say, they made some corrections immediately thereafter. Madam chair. >> Yes. >> Um yes, I have a few comments on this one. So um under approaching student outcome focus um the third paragraph so that the board will re recognize um accomplishments of its students and staff um regarding progress towards goals and interim goals. Um I am wondering will that count towards um I mean our our minutes of talking about student outcomes like is that would that be positive for us like in in monitoring our time >> absolutely >> right awesome >> uh if you are monitoring a goal about third grade literacy and you bring in the 10 third graders who grew the most um in that performance area over the last quarter. Um and you
095celebrated them and their parents and their teachers and you know did your photo op and you invited any of the third graders you want to share kind of what are some strategies like what really worked for you uh to show these really amazing breakout games uh like all of that absolutely is are minutes that are part of your monitoring. Now, if you have the football team come in because they want the state championship, but you don't have a goal about football, well, then that doesn't count. >> I love that. Thank you. And um for meeting student outcomes focus, um I think what is standing out to me too is that the board will have to to get those three points host um board members would have to either lead or co-lead um at least one
096training session. So, is that is that for the community? Is that for the board itself? Andor and how are we going to get trained on that? >> Yeah, that's definitely a training that the board is providing for its community. um and that you have a proactive obligation to help your community understand what does effective schoolboard governance look like and why. Um and as a way of them being able to hold you accountable uh and then being able to uh you know identify what does it look like and and how they can support it. And will this be um will the board members be trained on this on how to train how to lead a training session? >> Yeah, we would absolutely support you. >> Okay. Thank you. And and I could easily see that this
097being tied to the does the community take ownership. >> Mhm. >> And the on the blue column and the vision and the value section because you know that could be part of what the engagement is that and allows your community to feel like they have ownership because they're getting trained in this whole framework. So there's some uh uh spillover there, potential for uh two birds with one stone kind of thing. And I think that um we've talked about in previous trainings that um this could also be tied to the timing of you know community learn about this process but also are you contemplating maybe seeking board um running for school board. So it would be multiple things that we could pull together for this training. So, for instance, are you interested in, you know, running
098for school board or serving on a committee if that's, you know, as those become available or are you a community member that wants So, all of those things could be wrapped in that community education piece um just to to kind of do multiple things using a single, you know, training. And I kind of see this as and the coaches can help like a almost like a script like our listening sessions where it becomes something that we all agree this that you know this is the language we use and so that we can take turns being the let's say you know facilitator of the session. I think that's right >> on that uh blue column too. I wanted to point out that so the first paragraph mastering student outcomes focus the board included students as presenters
099in at least one of its um SOFG training sessions. Uh so that's that's pretty cool to see. Okay, we've got plenty of work ahead of us. We are zero on continuous improvement. Yes. Okay. Total of 15 is what we have. >> All right. >> Exactly. >> Well done. This is the first step and obviously a longer journey. This is why we often say this is a uh 12 to 24month journey to move from kind of not yet uh as focused as we want to be to really meeting a focus or mastering a focus on student outcomes. Um and so the in the same way that you would expect your uh students to be continuously growing, your your teachers, your principles, your superintendent, uh it makes sense for you all to be continuously growing. So you
100are uh you are modeling uh that behavior right now. Uh this is what highly effective school boards look like. Well done. >> Thank you. All right. So do we have to take it? Well, we don't have any action items on here. So there's no action item on a board board quarterly self-evaluation. I know this was our training, but as we moved into this, would there would we have to vote to approve our self-evaluation or is it just enough that you do it out loud? >> Yes, certainly. uh uh you all would want to take a vote um to uh approve your quarterly self-evaluation just um as some evidence that um this is um the this is a statement of the board of here's where we are um and here's where we're going. Um and so
101I try to make sure that as you do this and by the way the first time you do this it always takes somewhere in the realm of 90 minutes or so. Um, as you do this for a few quarters, it normally gets to be somewhere in the 10 to 20 minute range. Uh, depending on if folks have already come prepared and kind of read through things and already u made their determinations before the board meeting, uh, it goes pretty quickly. Um, but yes, you'd want to uh, then vote at the end uh, to uh, adopt your uh, quarterly self-ealuation before moving on. Alternately, uh some boards um complete it at one meeting and place it on the consent agenda uh for the next meeting. Uh so it just depends on how your sequence of meeting
102goes, how you all want to handle it. >> All right. Well, today we don't have an action item on here, so we cannot take a vote today. Do you guys want to move this a consent agenda next time or do you want to have a separate item to vote on it separately at the next meeting? >> Consent. All right, everybody. Good. Consent. Great. And then in the future when we do a board quarterly self-ealuation, it needs to be an action item. So I didn't know. So thank you. >> Okay. Anybody any wrap-ups? Dr. Pulp. >> Once again, I'm just excited in regards of the engagement as we move along. I've got notes over here in regards of what I'll share in cabinet as well as Craig and I have some notes that we're going to
103ask uh as we all continuously improve. So, thank you all. This little uncomfortable uh when we're this transparent, but this is the right work for kids. So, thank you. >> Thank you. And just in terms of our action items, we're happy to work with um either individual board members as they take up the time use evaluation going forward or with staff or with both or with you know whoever the AI folks are. Although that part's a little um daunting to me, but it sounds like AJ's up the curve on that or we'll connect others who are. And then just I'm going to provide everyone a formal um time use evaluation that I did for the past few months so that everyone has the same document in front of them. And then behind that I'll have
104the details so you can see how it all um gets folded in. >> All right. There's no further comments on that. Um, I'll make a motion to enter into executive session. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Call the vote. [Music] >> Members, you should get a popup on your laptop there. You may need to select the tab, the board docs tab >> and then go to your other tab. There we go. >> Says agenda on the top. >> Yeah, it closed it. You might just want to do a voice vote real quick. >> Okay, we'll do a voice vote. Thank you. >> Oh, voted. >> Paula Lewis, >> yes. >> Carol Thompson, >> yes. Jessica Sephuentes, >> yes. >> Dana Meister, >> yes. >> Lori Bowman, >> yes. >> Mike Shelton, >> yes. >>
105And Maganey, >> yes. >> Having received seven I votes and zero day votes, the motion carries. All right. We return from executive session at what time is it? 8:40. Time flies. Oh my gosh. And Craig, if you will read the executive session compliance statement, that would be excellent. Indeed, I shall. Just one moment, please. The board entered into executive session at 7:39 p.m. and returned to open session at 8:40 p.m. on October 20, 2025. Individuals who are present during the executive session included all the board members present at this meeting as well as Laura Holmes. Was there anybody else? That was it. Okay. And the board discussed the superintendent's evaluation and employment and no actions were taken during the executive session. That concludes the reading of the compliance statement. >> Okay. I'll make a motion
106to adjurnn. Is there a second? >> Second. Second. Call a vote. >> All in favor say I. I. I. >> Any oppose say nay. Hearing none. The motion carries. The board is adjourned. Hey Craig, just