September 29, 2025 | OKCPS Board Meeting

001Okay. >> Oh, >> talk again, please. >> Can you hear me now? >> Yes. >> All right. >> Yes. Thank you for letting us test the audio. >> I'm I'm glad it worked out. It's always the AV, right? Craig, should we go ahead and should I call the meeting? Go ahead and call the meeting to order since it's 5:30. >> You bet. >> Because we've got quorum, >> but we don't have AJ. >> I know, but we don't we can't wait more than what is it 15 minutes. >> Uh 15 minutes. >> We can go over some housekeeping stuff. Just go ahead and call. >> Okay, we'll call the meeting to order. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. >> Shall I go ahead and call the role, >> please? Thank you. Paula Lewis, >> present. >>

002Carol Thompson, >> present. >> Descuentes, >> present. >> Dana Meister, >> present. >> Lorie Bowman, >> present. >> And it looks like Mike Shelton, Juan Lakona, and Magleaney have yet to arrive. We do, however, have a quorum. >> All right. Thank you. So, while we're waiting for AJ and Coach Carol to hop on, we do have three um main topics tonight with our coaches. It's time use evaluation. And we did that a little bit in the um one of the longer sessions together where we went through and looked at like uh we even had like the stuff up on the board of like how we would cut to the agenda down to be able to get 50% of it of our business meeting. So, that's one of the things we're talking about tonight. We have

003the agenda evaluation which is also kind of the same thing. I mean, your time use is going to be a lot better looking at it when we get our agenda where we need it. And I think we've made some good progress there. And then board operating procedures is more along the lines of like how we request information as an individual board member, as a board, how we receive it, how the district gives that back to us, and many other things that they'll talk about. So, three pretty big topics. We typically have two hours. I sent that out to you guys today. Um it may take more like 30 another 30 minutes, you know, two and a half, three hours depending on how much robust conversation we have around those topics. Um but while we're waiting

004for them to hop on, do you guys have an opinion about like how we break that up? Do we just kind of go with it naturally? Do you want me to help keep us on track like I usually do to make sure we're out in a timely manner when we >> Yes. timely manner. Okay. >> All right. I will keep us moving. We'll ask them when they do hop on with us how long they think that they're going to present on each or teach or train on each topic and then we'll be have a better idea of how long we can ask questions and how we go about it. Does that work for y'all? >> All right. Great. Okay. And now we're just kind of hanging out and waiting for them. But live stream is

005up, I'm assuming. And so just know that when you talk, if your green lights's on, you're talking on live stream. So should we be looking at a specific section in our um SFOG >> of this sof? >> Well 22 is the time use evaluation page and that is be one of ours that's on here. I'm looking looking. We have our first monitoring session next Monday. So if you guys feel like cruising through that you can. I don't see but I believe on here the only thing I'm seeing particularly is the uh time use evaluation of what? >> Yes, please. No, >> I don't know that she's on. Okay. Dr. Bul, do >> you have anything to add while we're waiting for the >> AJ? >> I just want to say because you said that AJ

006came on screen. >> Well, hello AJ. would you have anything quick statements or waiting for him to start talking to us? >> I just want to say it's exciting uh to start this journey really looking forward to October 6 when we go deeper into the progress monitoring and a special thank you to the cabinet team especially Jason Galloway for as much work as that has gone into it. Um just exciting because this is the right work. Uh but please note it is work. So thank you for that opportunity, Chair Lewis. >> Yes. All right, AJ. I uh the board and I have kind of discussed sort of the time of tonight because we know we have three pretty big trainings on here and they would like us to stay as close to two hours as

007we can, but we are aware it may take a little bit more time depending on how much conversation we have around each topic. But I'll turn it over to you. >> Excellent. Uh thank you so much. It's a joy to get to spend time with you all this evening and excited that you all made some time uh to dive into these uh each of these topics. Um >> is anyone else having a hard time hearing? >> Agenda evaluation. >> Hey AJ, hang on one second. We're having a hard time hearing you. Give us just a minute. >> Okay. Okay. >> All right. So, they're saying you're going to have to talk louder that we've maxed everything out on volume. >> Okay. Um, can you are you able to hear me right now? >> It's pretty

008difficult. It's It's pretty muted. I'm not going to lie. >> Are you able to hear me right now? >> Yeah. Is it coming Oh, coming through our speakers up here because we don't feel like it's coming through our speakers. >> Mic check. Mic check one 1212. >> Madam Chair, if we could have Tamara do another sound check and see if hers is coming through louder than >> mic check from Tamara. >> Thank you, Tam. >> Different. >> Does this sound any different to y'all? >> It's a little bit. It's just pretty muted. We're us we usually have it pretty loud up here in speakers that are right next to us and we're not we're not hearing it very well out of that but we'll just have to be super quiet. >> All right. Well, I

009will try to yell at you all without being offensive. >> Thank you. >> First um uh three topics. We're going to move through them very quickly, but just know board members, anytime you want additional uh support, you can always reach out to uh any of us uh part of your coaching team, and we are excited uh to make one-on-one time for you uh to support whatever additional uh guidance that you feel like you need. Uh that is a very normal thing for most of the boards that we work with. Uh it is common for board members to reach out for one-on-one uh coaching and training. And so if there's a need for that, especially because we're going to go very quickly this evening, um then please by all means uh simply um let us know

010and we will make that uh happen. Uh first into time use evaluation. Why does the board's use of time matter? Why does the board's use of time matter? Well, our goal is to Sorry, we weren't sure that was an actual question. We thought you were continuing to talk. Our bad on that one. Okay. Who wants to give him an answer on that? Jessica, I'm calling on you. >> Yes, thank you. Um, in terms of why how we spend our time, how why it matters. I mean time is one of our biggest resources and if we are going to be measuring um how much time is spent actually talking about student outcomes on the board then we need to realize how much time do we have together and um and how we can most effectively use

011that time because we can I mean we can we can all be here and I mean do our agenda but if we're not paying attention to how much time is actually being spent I mean on student outcomes then what is the purpose of our training. >> Yeah. >> Anyone else? Why does how the board uses its time matter? What effect does how the board uses its time actually have? Anybody else? >> I think our time should be focused time and not just time. >> Why >> what we focus on shows our priority. >> Yeah. So, how we use our time because it is a valuable resource as Jessica said. Um, and we do need to be focused as Carol said, but what we focus on, what we spend most of our time on is what

012the board is setting as the priority for the district. >> Yeah. And if our job is student outcomes, then we need to be talking and focus focusing our work on student outcomes. >> Yeah. Whatever the board chooses to spend its time on, you are sending a message to your administration that that is what you want them to spend their time on. And so if the board wants more time focused on are our children actually learning, you know, matters of instruction, then the board's access to that is to actually spend more time on itself. Uh if the board doesn't actually care, um then it doesn't have to. But if the board wants to see the staff spend more time on something, then the board has to spend more time on it as well. Um, it's for

013this reason that part of what we do is we work with boards to code exactly how is their time spent. >> I can hear a lot better. Can you guys? >> So, whatever you did, great job. >> You can quit you can quit yelling at us now, AJ. >> Excellent. So what's on the screen in front of you is a typical uh time use evaluation. Um and what it does is is it tries to divide um into a group of categories that are aligned to your self-evaluation. What are all the different things that the boards spend their time on? And as you can see there are many different things that the boards spend their time on. Um and this is normal because you have a lot of duties. Uh you're a fiduciary uh body. There

014are a lot of legal obligations you have. And so there are many different things that you spend your time on. However, of all the things that you spend your time on, the things that are going to most drive a focus on student learning is when you spend time setting your goals and spend time monitoring progress toward those. Which is why of all of the different items on this time use evaluation, the only two that are actually highlighted are the ones around goal setting and goal monitoring. And so there are many other things that you have to do as you can see. Um attending to your guard rails, your community's values is important. Voting is important. Evaluating your superintendent is important. Really engaging with your community. Like there are so many incredibly important items on here.

015However, if you focus on all of those um and miss spending time on are children actually learning, then the message you send to your staff is that children learning is secondary and all these other things are primary. Uh what I want you to do is take a moment and reflect on u your most recent schoolboard meeting. How much of that meeting was spent monitoring progress toward your goals? And if you're wondering what that means, uh, just check the screen. I'll make the description of goal monitoring and goal setting a little bit larger for you. >> Well, it was zero for us because we have our first monitoring session >> October 6th. So, I mean, I'm sure we talked about a little bit of student outcomes, but for the most part, we did not. >> So,

016what are what are all the items? Somebody read for me. What are the items that are part of goal monitoring? Somebody read that description for me. reviewing, discussing, and or accepting, not accepting goal monitoring ports reports in accordance with the monitoring calendar. >> All right. So, anybody explain to me what are some of the things that that means because that gives a very specific description of what we mean by goal monitoring. Sometimes people say, well, we talked about summer school. Does that mean we were involved in goal monitoring? Well, it kind of depends. So, what are the requirements that you're seeing here for something to count as goal monitoring? >> Well, it has to be related to a the interim goals, right? The like if the summer school was like an interim goal, there was

017some sort of metric as part of that particular goal, we could discuss it. But not if it's not a goal or interim goal. >> Yeah. Uh so so one piece of clarity about goal monitoring is it actually has to be monitoring a specific goal, not just a random uh selection of data. And it's not to suggest that there aren't other things that are important or interesting, but for it to be goal monitoring, it actually has to be about the goals and the interim goals uh that have already been adopted. What else about this description jumps out? There's a few other elements that's important that you can distinguish goal monitoring from everything else that you do. What else jumps out at you? selecting. >> Um, for me what jumps out is that it's uh specifically we're

018accepting or not accepting the reports and those reports have to be what was already selected on the calendar. So it it can't be also a random report in the middle of a of a month. It has to be something that we've agreed to previously and then we're going to discuss if we accept those or not. >> Yeah. This is about accountability and transparency for everyone, for the board and the support team. So, the board can't just make up here's what we will report about um once you get to the board meeting uh that you've actually planned this out in advance and communicate the superintendent, but the superintendent also can't just make up what she what data she wants to cherrypick uh to show you that she actually uh has to adhere to the monitoring calendar

019that the board's put in place. Um and so these elements that it has to actually be about the goals that the board has adopted. It actually has to be a report uh that the board is going to choose to accept or not accept. Um and it actually has to be in accordance with the with the timeline that the board has set with the monitoring calendar uh the board has set. Uh any other questions about what counts and what doesn't count as goal monitoring? This is the single most important definition we're going to go through for this part of the conversation. um that so that you'll always know is this something that fits into the 50% that's focused on student outcomes or the 50% that's focused on the other things that we have to do. Any

020other questions about what counts as goal monitoring? >> Madam Chair, I'm not sure what the appropriate >> Yeah. Goal. Yeah. >> Uh yes. So, Coach AJ, so I I kind of was thinking about what Lori said earlier, which was the interims. So, would interim goals also fall into this? Yeah. The so the the challenge with goals is that you typically only have updated data about your goals once per year. And so the interim goals are your progress monitoring data that you can look at multiple times per year that gives you some insight into are we making progress toward the goal. And so since you can only look at the goal once per year, the purpose of the interim goals is to give you something that you can look at multiple times a year that tells

021you are you actually making progress toward goals. And so yes, your monitoring reports are typically made up of at least one goal and one interim goal is what your normal monitoring report is made up of. >> Perfect. Thank you. >> Other questions about goal monitoring? It's really important that you all have this nailed uh before we move on. Any other questions about what counts as low blood monitoring and and why? >> All right. So once we've got an understanding about what does and doesn't count as goal monitoring, uh then the next step is to get a little bit more dialed into uh how do we actually do effective goal monitoring. Um and for that uh one of the documents that we've shared with you previously um is one about effective goal monitoring. I'm going to

022pull that up on the screen right now. Um but you all have received this document previously um and it is simply called effective goal monitor >> and so as you look at this document um are you able to uh are you is that large enough that you're now able to read it? >> Yes. >> Uh so take a moment and read just the first section. What is goal monitoring? Don't go beyond that to how is goal monitoring beneficial but just that first section. What is goal monitoring? uh take just a moment to read that um and then we'll talk about it. [Music] What jumped out at you about this first section. What is goal monitoring? So, we looked at the list. There's all of these different things that a board can spend its time on,

023but right now we're just zooming into that very first thing, which is what is goal monitoring? Uh, so as you're reading the section about what is goal monitoring, what's something that jumped out at you? I think what jumped out um for me was the sentence um goal monitoring is a conversation between the board and superintendent. So I think um it's not like a a gotcha moment or it's a it's a conversation about it's a that I think means it's it's you know a productive back and forth conversation um not like a test that we're >> yeah this is one of those things where two things could be true simultaneously. One this is not about gotcha. This isn't about we see if we can stump the superintendent or you know catch her off guard or something

024like that. That's not actually productive for monitoring, but it is simultaneously this is part of how the board evaluates a superintendent. Um and most school boards across the country evaluate their superintendent once per year. We actually think this is problematic in the same way that most industries have decided that this doesn't make sense uh there either. And so instead of only providing feedback to your employee once per year and this process through goal monitoring, you effectively have an opportunity to have a conversation about superintendent performance and provide feedback every single month. Um and so instead of just once per year, uh 12 times per year. Um and so this is not about gotcha, but it is definitely about accountability. Anybody else? What jumped out at you about this section? What jumped out at you about

025the section about goal monitoring or what is goal monitoring? Anybody else? What's something jumped out at you? >> The phrase it's not a catastrophic event. It's superintendent does not unless the superintendent does not sufficiently have aggressive strategies in place. So it's like Lori was saying, it's a work in progress. It's not a gotcha. It's like this is the issue now we need to go forward. >> Yeah. This is an important part is that there are steps of severity and you don't want to jump all the way to the top of that. So the first step is recognizing that okay, are we actually accomplishing the goal yet? Um, and obviously we all want to be accomplishing the goal already, but if we're not accomplishing the goal yet, then the next question becomes, are we at least

026making progress toward the goal? And then if we're not yet making progress toward the goal, then the question becomes, >> does the superintendent have a plan that is sufficiently aggressive to cause progress toward the goal? So, those are the three things that you want to look at when you're engaged in monitoring is, are we there yet? If we're not there yet, is there evidence that we're on our way there yet? If there's not yet evidence that we're on our way, does the board believe, and it's truly a judgment call, does the board believe the superintendent has a plan that is sufficiently aggressive to get the district back on track? This is a really really important part of the board's job is that you are making a judgment call every single month as to whether or

027not the district is moving in the direction that on behalf of your community it needs to be moving. Any other questions or reflections about what is goal monitoring or this section of the document? Other questions or reflections about what is goal monitoring? I I really liked the fact that it kind of mentioned goals versus kind of a reality. I think that pretty pretty much piqued my interest there. Um so just thinking about I mean we we're we're going to be looking at what's reality and remembering that our goals are very long-term. Um and so whatever we see now, I mean we we can grow. And so I I think I liked the fact that it kind of distinguishes that the there's going to be something we see versus what we're where we're heading. >> Yeah.

028It is very easy for boards to get caught up in opinions about what's working and not working. It's very easy for boards to get caught up um in their own ideas or what social media has to say uh or anything like that. And instead, what we insist on is that boards really need a rigorous relationship with reality. That instead of kind of going based on what feels like it's uh on track or not, is there actual evidence of are you on track or not for your students? Uh anyone else any other reflections on what is goal monitoring before you transition? >> Okay, then. Uh, oh, I'm sorry. >> No, I was going to say I'm not seeing any heads looking like they're asking questions. So, >> uh, then the next question is, how is goal

029monitoring beneficial? So, take just a moment, uh, and review that section of it. How is goal monitoring beneficial? If this is something that we're going to spend half of the board's time on each month, there has to be a reason. So, why? Take a moment and read the section. Just a section. How is goal monitoring beneficial? As you were looking through the section, how is goal monitoring beneficial? What jumped out at you? >> The continuous uh improvement strategy is what jumped out at me that it's not just a one one and done. It's a continual process. Yeah, this very much mirrors the classroom environment is that it's not, you know, we take a quiz and then that's the the end of everything. You know, if little AJ, you know, didn't pass the quiz and it's

030all over. No, all that does that informs what's the next action and then the next set of data comes in and it informs what's the next action. Things were working great. Why was it working? And how do we get more of that? Is it not working? Got it. Okay. So, what didn't work? Why didn't it work? What do we learn? And what are we going to do next in response? But it's this constant continuous improvement process. Uh who else? What jumped out at you about how is global monitoring beneficial? >> I'll go. Um I thought it was interesting that it sets the standard for the culture that we want in our classrooms and our school sites um by having an open dialogue around the data. >> Yes. Sometimes school systems will become toxic environments where

031it is really uncomfortable uh for people to have real conversations about are our children uh receiving the benefit of the education we owe them or not. And the moment that we create an environment that's so toxic that adults stop talking about it then that means that our collective ability to serve children starts to decline as well. And so we don't want to create a space where the conversation goes away. Accountability has to happen. conversation has to happen, but we need to do it in such a way that it doesn't shut down people from engaging. Um, and so there is a cultural norm that the board creates. If you have really toxic conversations in the boardroom, don't be surprised when the superintendent then starts to mirror your behavior and has toxic conversations with her staff and

032her staff and principles and principles and teachers and teachers and students that what happens in the boardroom gets echoed in the classroom. Um, and so this is absolutely a culturecreating activity. Anybody else? What's something about alcohol monitoring is beneficial? The jump out badge. >> Well, you just said it. I was going to say the same thing. Whatever echoes in the boardroom, it goes towards like the school students. And if we uh and excuse me, so if we want to make a difference, uh, we need to focus on student outcome. And that doesn't change until adult adult behavior changes started with with me. Excuse me. I think we need to focus more on of uh education instead of adult input. I think we we got to focus on who's going to benefit the most, students or

033or or adults. And until we make changes, nothing's going to happen. >> I love that input. uh board member Lacona um kind of to follow what you were saying um and I really liked that on the first point and third point um I feel like there were some similar things so leading by example so is is there pretty much a guarantee that if by changing what we do here on the board it will be mirrored in the district you know and so I'm I'm it's it's a question that came up but I'm thinking about that organizational alignment so it's at every level um that this culture like board member Molini talked about um will be reflected. Um clarifying strategies for that one. Um I I think it was really neat to see that talking about

034what strategies the superintendent will be employed that that is appropriate for us to discuss in in our goal settings and um in in our reports. And then the last one which was uh in the superintendent evaluation kind of conducting these micro assessments. Um so as we're receiving these reports and monitoring our progress um this is a an active dialogue with the superintendent as to how the district is doing. >> Yeah. Most school boards don't actually behave this way. Um, and so they talk about what actions adults are taking, but they almost never connect it back to is it actually making a difference for children. And so we get a lot of opinion making um, and a lot of interesting sound bites for social media, but not real evidence of our children receiving the education that

035we owe them. Um, inside of goal monitoring, we get very very precise specifically so that we can accomplish that. Any other reflections on how goal monitoring is beneficial before I move on? We We've lost you, AJ. You're on mute. >> I said, "Any other reflections on how gold monitoring is beneficial before we move on?" >> I think No, I think we're good. >> All right. So then one other major thing uh that is worth reflecting on is when you receive monitoring reports you need to know whether or not the monitoring report is of quality. Um and so I want to direct your attention to the section effective monitoring reports. Uh so take a moment um and look at uh the section there are four items. What is it that takes what is required for a

036monitoring report to actually be effective? Um, and I'll ask the question in a moment. What should the board do if the monitoring report is not effective? So, take a moment to read the section on just effective monitoring reports. So what is the first? So before we even get into that, if the board gets to the board meeting on your agenda is to engage in monitoring, so you're prepared to actually spend 50% of your time monitoring and the monitoring report is missing any of these four items. What is our coaching that the board should do when it comes to board's use of time? If there are items that are missing from the monitoring report, what is our recommendation that the board should do? >> We should hand it back and ask for it to be completed

037and look at it at our next board meeting. >> Yeah. And generally I would recommend doing this once maybe twice uh because you know this is complicated stuff and it takes a superintendent and her team some time to get everything together. But if this becomes a continual uh practice of the superintendent arriving at a board meeting without uh an appropriate monitoring report without the information you need as a board to know whether or not your children are growing. uh after a certain point I would say you simply need to vote to not approve the monitoring report and then that becomes an issue that gets discussed u during the annual evaluation. Um and so ideally you won't run into that but if the information is not presented then do not simply pass over it. Um hand

038it back invite the superintendent to complete it. Um, and then if that keeps happening over and over and over, uh, at some point the board needs to send a message that this is unacceptable behavior, uh, choose not to accept the monitoring report, um, and and then have a conversation about that, um, at the time of the annual evaluation. So assuming the monitoring report has all the pieces in place that are necessary, then the board can actually proceed. So the question is, what are the four pieces that are necessary? Uh as you all have read, we've got the goal kind of which data are we actually talking about? And so the question was asked earlier. Um is the interim goal part of it? Yep. You can see that here that both the goal and the interim

039goal are part of it. The data uh what what is the actual data about student performance? If there's not data, you can't really have a conversation that's grounded in data. The interpretation, which is superintendent's view of what the data means. And then finally the evidence in the plan uh which how do we know where we're at? How do we know what's working and what's not working and what's going to happen next? What question before we transition away from monitoring entirely? What questions do you have about effective monitoring reports? Uh we will have another time where we do a much deeper dive into this. Uh but as a part of evaluating how you use your time, it's important to be able to differentiate when we would say goal monitoring that the board is spending its time

040on that that you understand why this is so different from everything else you're doing. So any questions about effective monitoring reports before we transition? >> Any questions about monitoring? >> Jessica. >> Yes, I have a question about number four. So it does mention that if the school system is not at target. Um so does number four apply only if the school system is not on track or is it regardless? >> Uh most superintendents going to provide all four steps regardless. Um but um there have been situations where something was completely on track and they were so far ahead of track that the uh that the administration and the board stopped spending as much time on that particular um goal and instead focused on other ones. And so then the superintendent did scale back and provided

041the basic amount of information needed for item four, but not a lot. Um, you all aren't quite there yet, so it's not something that you have to worry about for a while, but let us uh let us hope that we get there quickly. >> AJ, is this >> Yeah, this is Carol. I'm kind of foggy today. Can you clarify something for me? Um, >> yeah, >> with the monitoring reports, I know um that it's for a specific goal, an interim goal. Are we are we going to do this at every board meeting with a specific goal and an interim goal or do we just have specific time frames that we're going to work on work on our effective monitoring reports? >> AJ, before you answer, Carol, I don't think you were here at the board

042meeting. We approved that five-year monitoring calendar. So, we have that and you can look at every single time we're going to look at every goal, interim goal. >> I missed the last. >> I'm sorry. I know. I was like, what? Why is she asking that question, right? Sorry. >> No, no. Uh it's important to remember that you all have >> looking at which month. Um and so there's accountability and transparency for the superintendent, accountability and transparency for the community, uh that if folks want to know exactly when will we have data reported, uh that it's in that monitoring report. Um and so your intention is that you'll spend half of your time each month, not all of it. you've got a lot of other things that you have to do with your time. But that

043half of your time, if you say that children learning is the main thing, then your opportunity to prove that um in action, not merely in word, is through how you use your time. And do you spend at least half of it each month monitoring progress uh toward your goals? Uh any other questions about monitoring reports before we transition? >> I I think they're good. And so the big conversation that we've been diving into has been about the very first part of this time use evaluation uh which is uh what is goal monitoring and making sure that you're clear that it is very very different than pretty much everything else that the board does that it's not just randomly looking at data on a random day. It's not a board member asking a question about some

044data that they find interesting. It's a very intentional process. Um, and that's what I wanted you to take from that mini dive into goal monitoring. Any questions about goal monitoring before we look at a few other items of time use evaluation? Uh, and before we transition, any other questions about goal monitoring in general. And so once the board has designed its time so that half of it is focused on monitoring then as a board you have to sit down and decide okay so how do we make everything else work with the remaining 50% of the time. Uh how how do we design the rest of our meetings so that we get the other things that we want done in the 50% that's remaining. Uh that is a large part of what your work will be

045over the next 12 months as you get into this and slowly learn and develop uh skills as a governing team of of figuring out how do we get other things done as efficiently as possible so that we can free up time for the things that matter most which is our children actually learning. Um and so again going through this right now what I suspect uh if we do a time use evaluation for your board meetings right now what a lot of that time gets spent on uh would fall in the category of voting. Uh voting is one of the two areas that board where boards tend to spend the most of their time. Um and so voting as you can see from the description sorry I'll make that a little bit bigger. uh is any

046time that the board's spending uh in debating or voting an item. And so uh when an item comes up, the time that you all spend discussing it, all of that uh is part of voting. Um and so voting tends to be pretty pretty significant use of time. What we would suggest from a time use perspective, figure out how can we be as efficient about voting as possible. How can we make sure that we get the information we need before board meetings so that we can um so that instead of spending an hour on voting, is it possible to spend 45 minutes on voting? Instead of spending 45 minutes, is it possible to spend an half an hour uh with the intention of saving some amount of time so that we can actually dig into is

047the result of all this voting actually making a difference for children? The other item that you wind up spending most of your time on currently, but not for long, is what we just call other. Um, and it's stuff that doesn't fit into any other category. Can somebody give me example of a behavior of the board that probably doesn't fit into any other category on here? It's not voting. It's not monitoring. Uh, what are examples of things that the board does right now that probably fit into the other category? listen to public comments. >> So, interestingly enough, uh we strongly recommend the board uh engage with its community. Um and in fact, there's this whole section right here about community engagement. Uh but somebody read our definition for community engagement right quick. two-way communication opportunity where

048board members listen for and discuss the vision values of their staff and community members >> session >> uh two-way communication >> so is that what happens during your public comment sessions >> no it's one way >> why yeah it's definitely it's one way and so we would not say that is an authentic form of community engagement is it something that you can do sure absolely Absolutely. There's nothing wrong with doing it, but don't do that and think that that is a replacement for what the board also needs to do, which is engage in two-way communication with its community. Like, there needs to be some back and forth. And so, public comment has its place, but the board should not pretend that that is a replacement for actually having dialogue with its community. That you need

049to set aside time for that as well. Um, and so we would put public comment that's one way, we put that in other community engagement that's actually two-way, we would put it here. So that's a perfect example of something that would go into other. Uh, what are any other things that you can think of that probably fit into other because they don't go anywhere else that you all currently do with your time in board meetings? >> Would the pledge of allegiance and moment of silence would that be in other? Yeah, the these are things that don't really fit anywhere else. Uh there's not um like meaningful evidence in the research literature uh that having a moment of silence uh is going to move the needle on student performance. Uh it's something that you do as

050a function of your community's values. Um and it's perfectly fine to do. Um but it's just doesn't fit into any of these other categories that actually help create alignment with around your goals. And so it would fit into other uh one more example. Will anybody else have an >> really all of the almost all the items on our consent agenda um or like passing policies? >> All that would fit under the voting act, >> but policies unrelated. >> Are you saying that vote? So maybe I'm misunderstanding. So if we're voting on a policy unrelated to the goals, that counts. >> Yep. That's that's still voting. um any debating voting on items off it's under voting. >> Okay. >> Um and so yeah uh that that is an important part of the board's work u and

051we code it as such uh but we code it under voting. So what are the things that aren't voting? Anything else that the board uh engages in that fits into other >> staff's celebrations? Um recognition >> uh yes. So if you have recognitions that are disconnected from uh your goals, uh then we would absolutely put that in others. So, for example, if you had a staff member who got a award in the community or something, but it's not at all related to your goals, um you might recognize that staff member. Uh but that we code that under other. However, if you had a group of students who had shown significant improvement relative to the goal that you're monitoring this month and you brought those students, uh to the board meeting to, uh be recognized, that

052that we put down as an example of monitoring. Um and so, uh that absolutely would be part of that 50% and we strongly encourage that that anytime you have an opportunity to really lift up what your students are doing relative to the goals, uh we encourage you to do that. That would be goal monitoring. But if it's other things that aren't connected to goals, then absolutely we would move that down to other. Any other questions about um other uh before we transition? Any other questions about um where anything else would go or do you have any questions about things that are on your agenda and where they might go in this time use evaluation before we transition? >> Heads are shaking. No. >> Well, what we recommend is that this time use evaluation is a

053monthly document, not a meeting document. And so what we'd recommend is however many meetings you have. If you have two meetings, if you have three meetings, if you have four meetings, however many, and that's inclusive of your committees as well, that at the end of the month that you add up how many minutes you spend in all of those meetings, and then based on that, uh, you then identify how you spent that. As an example of what that looks like when it's completed, this is an example from another district of how they spent their time. You'll notice that they only spend about 11% of their time on goal monitoring. So, they're not quite there yet. They're they're going to get there. Uh this district did get there. They got to 50%. But right now, notice

054it's uh that there's only about 11%. Um what did they spend the bulk of their time on? Anybody notice? [Music] I can't see down at the bottom. Is it other? >> Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely other% of their time was other. And by the way, that is pretty normal. Um is that boards will spend, >> you know, upwards of 80 90% of their time um in othering activities. activities that again, these aren't bad things, but they're not things that are directly aligned to are we accomplishing the goals that we set out. Um, and so our coaching to the board is to try to figure out how do we take the things that fit into other and how do we compress that down so that we can free up time to actually focus on the community's vision

055for what children should know and be able to do. Uh we're about to transition away from board time use, but this gives you a quick overview of what is the board time use instrument and why is it organized the way it is and what are some of the items on it mean? Uh before we transition away from time use, any questions you have about uh board time use evaluation? Questions about the board time use evaluation? >> We have one. >> Yes. And whenever we are um I guess doing our uh we're we're doing our monthly monitoring where where does that time spent go? >> Uh monthly monitoring of what >> of of board time use. >> Oh. Uh so that is part of your if you look under continuous improvement. Mhm. >> Um and so

056anything that's kind of around how are we improving as a board or how are we help or how are we as a board helping our community improve and grow all those live under continuous improvement. >> Okay, >> great question. These are important activities. Notice board training. So you all receiving training, but also notice the item under it, board community training. So, this is you as elected officials doing part of your duty to go out and help educate your community about what's working, what's not working, and what's going to happen next with your school system. That's an important part of your role as elected officials is to not only make sure that you're constantly learning, but helping make sure that your community is learning along with you. Uh, but all those would fall under the continuous

057improvement section. Thank you. Yep. All right. So, I want to transition. Uh, we've been talking about uh board's use of time. Um, and the board's use of time uh is critical. Um, but one of the ways that you have access to directly impacting that is by trying to figure out how much of our agenda are we going to spend on what items. So, this comes up every single month. And so what I want to do is I want to walk through a sample uh agenda um of recent of a recent board meeting and just kind of replay the video, kind of look back at it and try to identify how did we spend our time uh during this. I'm going to ask you to um to to think about this in a really calibrated way.

058For this, you're going to need something to write on and something to write with. So, if you already have a notepad or pen or pencil, go ahead and get those handy uh because we're we're about to dive into it. What I want to look at is your most recent regular business meeting. Uh this is on the 25th, so hopefully it is still kind of fresh in your minds. Uh and I want to walk through it step by step and just evaluate the agenda. So, the time use evaluation that we just talked through, that normally happens after a board meeting. But this agenda evaluation, this is something you can do before uh the board meeting. Try to figure out are we actually uh on track for what we intend to what we intend to do. Uh

059so the way we'll do this um is uh first I just want to go through each item on the agenda. Uh and the first question I'm going to ask um is is this student outcomes focused? And uh on your paper you'll just indicate for that item number either a yes or no, either a Y or an N. Either it's student outcomes focused or it's not. Um, so for item 1.01, roll call. Is this item student outcomes focused? >> Nope. >> Why do you say no? >> It's not about students. It's not about students or goals. >> Yeah. As a result of this item, you have no further insights into whether students your students are growing relative to your goals. That's the key thing is do as a result of this item on the agenda, do

060I as a board member have more clarity as to whether or not children are actually growing relative to our goals? If the answer is yes to that question, then we would say yes. This is student outcomes focused. If the answer is no, that I don't have more data about how my students are actually growing relative to my goals, then we'd say no, it's not student outcomes focused. Um, and so this isn't about is the item good or bad, but we do want to intentionally try to figure out how do we tighten up on the things that are not student outcomes focused so we can have more time for the things that are. Uh, item 102, pledge of allegiance. Is this item student outcome focused? >> No. >> Why do you say no? Same reason doesn't

061it doesn't give us any more information whether kids are learning or not. >> All right. Uh let's do a harder one. 3.01. Is this item student outcomes focused? Yes or no? >> No. Wow. Not unless the monitoring reports underneath it. I mean is involved in it. >> So we're So this is the meeting from August 25th. >> Oh okay. I thought you were saying in the future. Um >> no. No. >> So what' you talk about? We watched the video of some staff recognitions uh I don't remember what we watched >> uh back beginning of the school year. >> Back at the beginning of the school year. >> It's kind of an overview of >> how things are going but not specific. >> Yeah. This is um hardcore other is that it doesn't actually fit

062into any other category we have. Normally what superintendent updates are being used for is for the superintendent to share with the board and staff and anyone else who happens to be listening about here's some of the really interesting things that have taken place in the last month. Uh that's how superintendent updates typically uh play out. how they almost never uh play out is as opportunity for the superintendent to share with the board monitoring about progress relative to the goal. And so if we were coding this after the fact, we'd call this uh we'd code this as other. Um but as we're going through this uh agenda evaluation and we're just looking every single item, we're putting a yes next to it or no next to it. uh for this we put a no and that

063it wasn't uh focused on student outcomes. As a result of the superintendent update, the board did to have additional data about what students know or able to do relative to the goals. All right. So, what I want you to do um is go through the rest of this agenda uh and very quickly um uh just kind of identify a yes or no for each one. So, I'm going to scroll through it and just for each item, just uh identify the item number and then just kind of put a yes or a no for that. And then once we get all the way through the agenda, we'll come back um and we'll talk about some of the yeses. So, as we go through here, just try to identify which ones are yes, which ones are no.

064Either yes, this is actually focused on student outcomes. As a result of this item, I as a board member have more data about the extent to which students are learning relative to our goals or no. I didn't have more data about whether or not students are learning relative to our goals. So, for each item, just go ahead and put a yes or a no on your paper and then we'll come back and talk about some of the yeses. Enter. I think it's all no. >> All right. So, let's talk about the yeses. Uh, what what do what did you put a yes for? Nothing is I think it's a consistent answer. >> Nothing. Uh >> did any did anybody have a yes? Anybody? Anybody? >> Is 4.01 not >> just an update. >> I had

065I had a yes on it but with a question mark. >> Yeah, >> I think it was just an update of like >> Well, and honestly, this is not not it wasn't the wasn't the last business meeting we had cuz I was a little confused because like we didn't even have that future driven. So, it was one before. So, we did have an update on what trainings were coming, but that had nothing to do with student outcomes. We were just discussing like that this is what the board will be working through in these next. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And so, you all definitely are taking a future driven orientation. Um, and mentioning that you're taking a future orientation makes a lot of sense. But the question you got to ask yourself is as a

066result of that item, did I walk away with more data about whether or not children are actually learning relative goals? Um, and I suspect the answer to that was no. And so what you have is in this agenda evaluation, what you find is that we can go through the entire agenda and currently everything qualifies as a no. Does that mean that everything on the agenda is bad? >> No. >> What does it mean? means we needed an item that talks about monitoring goals. >> We need to refocus our board meetings. >> Yeah, no doubt. >> It means as a board member, your most sacred obligation is to make sure the children of your community are getting an education uh that they're growing in what they know and are able to do so they can live

067a choice-filled life. And there is literally nothing on your last agenda that gave you any insight into is that true or not. And that is, you know, as you all take this future-driven orientation, that is the fundamental failure of school boards that you are seeking to cure for OKCPS. That most school boards across the country spend somewhere between 0 to 5% of their minutes all year long actually talking about our children learning and 95 to 100% of their time throughout the year digging into all of the other stuff that comes up. you know, talking about buses and books and boilers and parking lots and the color of the cheerleader uniform and the lights, you know, in the gymnasium and so on and so forth. All things that are necessary? All things that are absolutely necessary.

068But is spending time on those things more important than um that we allow them to crowd out ever talking about our children actually learning? That's the challenge that you all have taken on and said this is the last time we ever want to see a an agenda of this nature where the answer to are any of these items student outcomes focused is no for every single thing. Uh any other questions or reflections on this before we uh take the next step in our agenda evaluation. The first step in the agenda evaluation is just categorizing um which things are focused on student outcomes. Yes. Which things are not? No. Any questions about this step before we take the next step? All right. So then the next step is keep, delete, or modify. So I want you

069to put a K, a D, or an M to keep, delete, or modify. And as you think about how much time did we spend on this item on the 25th. Um, do we want to keep it? Which means, you know, let's maintain this item and however much time we spent on it, both seem uh appropriate. Let's let's do that. We want to delete it. Like not only do we not want to spend the time as much time we don't want to spend any time. Let's just get this item off of our agenda entirely or modify. You know what? Let's keep this item, but let's completely redesign our approach to this item. Either to uh reduce the amount of time we spend on it or to approach it in a way that's student outcomes focused. So,

070I want you to think of for every single item that you put a no next to, which for the now is all of them. I want you to put a K, a D, or an M. Keep, delete, or modify. So, I'll run through the list one more time, and for each item where you put a no. Um, do you want to keep this item? Do you want to delete it? Or do you want to modify it? And then when we come back, I'll be curious to hear about what are any deletion candidates uh and any modification candidates. I should say before we even get started, no decisions are being made tonight. Tonight is not decision-m. This is just a training. This is just a practice. We're not actually doing anything. We're not actually changing anything.

071It's really important that you all not uh kind of get overindexed on uh the idea of decision-m right now. That's not what we're doing. You all will make decisions about your agenda at another time. Right now, you're just noticing things so that you can use it for in the future when you do make a decision. Um and so I'll ask you to offer keep, delete, and modifies, but we're not actually making any decisions. We're just going through an activity. So >> AJ, can I clarify real quick on consent agenda? There's nothing I mean consent agenda is one topic and so we're not necessarily needing board members to go through everyone because that's the business of the district. Correct. >> Uh so it so it depends how long did you spend on your consent agenda? >>

072Like depends if anybody pulls something off to discuss or vote on but if not it's a make a motion second vote. So a minute I don't know. >> Okay. So, it sounds like you're doing this correctly. So, some people make the mistake of not recognizing that um the consent agenda vote is not actually debatable. Uh that it's not an item that you would discuss there. The only thing in order is there's a motion, there's a second, and then there's a vote. Um so, I've watched boards and they'll spend three hours on the consent agenda, which makes no sense. Um at that point, it's obviously not a consent agenda anymore. And so the fact that you're only spending about a minute 30 seconds on it, that's that is appropriate. And so yes, you can uh treat

073all of that as one item, that is the purpose of the consent. >> So I'm going to keep scrolling through here and just be thinking about which ones do we want to keep, which ones do we want >> I have a clarifying question as well. So under under number five, information agenda, future board action requested. So our policy is that we bring it before the board. So these are all items that would be voted on in the next meeting. And so because voting is part of we get to count it toward our time per the time use evaluation. >> Can we also count this because it is related to the voting. It's our first step. >> Yes. So this is not an unusual uh practice for boards to essentially kind of have a first read

074second read type of situation. And so in those situations that is a we consider that just part of the extended voting process. All right. Um and so yes a first read we would uh code that as voting because it's a first read with the intention that it'll be voted on the second read essentially. Does that make sense? >> It does. And that and it typically when it comes up for information that's when if there needs to be a presentation to give background that's when that happens. So all of that would be put toward the voting percentage versus other versus other. >> That's correct. Great. That's correct. >> Thank you. That's helpful. >> Once information like policies for example, once the information we've had that session and board members have had their week, 10 days to

075ask questions, get their information. Is there any precedence to move those items into consent agendum if it's if it's legal? If there's not a reason that it couldn't be consent agenda is that >> Yeah. So, so our coaching is that every item that is legally allowed to be on consent agenda should start life on the consent agenda. Like 100% of items that are consent eligible under the law should start life on the consent agenda and they should only be removed from the consent agenda if it's the will of the board members for them for them to do so. Uh and so you know this item uh about uh board policy you know G39 termination of employment uh to me that that is something that starts life on the consent agenda. Um and then as you

076go through the process you all receive that long long in advance and so you have plenty of time to say hey actually let's pull that off of consent as a board. We need to really dig into this some more. So >> I think maybe you missed what Lori said. We have a our policy says like our board policy I can't remember which one it is the number but it says that it before the board would pass a policy it will be presented a month ahead of time. >> Mhm. >> So it wouldn't start on the consent agenda because we couldn't get the presentations for it. So you all actually on item five for example, you all would receive presentations on these items that you won't voting for for another month. >> Some more than others,

077but policies typically our attorney will come up and kind of give a rundown of like, you know, like Tony's available if you have any questions, you have it in front of you kind of thing for the information piece. >> Yeah. charters will come and give us a quick five minute presentation if we're about to be asked to extend their contract. >> Well, but and AJ some of these will like fall into the category of the state legislature session just ended and they told us that we have to pass these three policies. So then we'll say you know he'll come up and say all three 5.01 you know 0203 are all >> uh related to you know we have to there's no option. Um, and does anyone have any questions? We will have gotten it ahead

078of time. The like the the markedup language and the clean language um will will have already had, but then maybe 504 isn't a state law. It's something that the district and board have worked together to we need this new policy. So, that one might warrant a fivem minute presentation followed by Q&A. >> Yeah. And so I think what the board's going to have to decide on things like this, and it's this is entirely a board decision. It's not, you know, an us decision or staff. This is really a board decision, is just how you want to organize uh your work so that you can have the maximum amount of time with the information you need for decision-m and that it be done in as transparent um manner for your community as possible. Um, and if

079the system that you have now, uh, checks all those boxes, then I say keep it. Um, if you find a system that gives you more transparency, um, and more information and more time, uh, then I'd say consider changing to it. Um, so the the way you're doing it, again, if it works for you, keep it. Uh but there certainly are I can think of two or three other ways that you could organize this that might be slightly more transparent um and give you slightly more time uh to review the materials so that you can be better prepared. Um and I think you all just need to make the decision of how much transparency and how much preparation time do you need um and then and then choose accordingly. Can you tell us what you mean

080when you say I can think of a way we could organize this maybe more transparently? I'm just curious like what you know, of course, like sometimes it's hard to think about new options when this is the only one you've seen and experienced. >> Yeah. Um so um for pretty much any topic that you come across, we'll be able to point you to um a handful of other ways that other districts have gone about it. Um and uh and then you all can look at those and say, "Okay, I see what they've done. I see what we do." And you can just pick among them and choose. And we're not going to suggest to you one's right, one's wrong. Uh it really is a choice of the board, you know. one example of what you're asking

081about. Uh I know one board um they receive all their materials uh to be voted on um 14 days in advance. Um and along with those materials is a YouTube video of the relevant staff member giving the presentation. Um, if you ask that board, they would tell you that their approach is more transparent than yours because the only way your community really has easy access to the presentations is they have to wait till they get to the board meeting and either be watching the board meeting or catch the video afterwards. Whereas in their district, they would say their system is more transparent because each individual presentation is its own YouTube video. So people can skip right to the thing that they want to see. Um, and so that's just one example of a way that

082one board does things differently than the way you do it. And again, with so many boards out here, we could show you half a dozen different ways of doing everything it is that you do. And and so we're not suggesting you yours is right and theirs is wrong or vice versa. You all would have to make the choice. Uh you know, we'd show you a bunch of different options and you all make a choice what makes most sense for us. >> Okay, that's interesting. >> That responsive to your question. >> Oh yeah. No, I I I'm curious like again, you know, out of the box ideas that we haven't considered because this is all we've ever known. So that's really interesting. that would provide definitely more transparency than what we currently have. >> Yeah, it's

083just the sort of thing that you don't think about until you are comparing and contrasting with a dozen different board meetings. And it's part of the benefit of having a coach since that's literally what we do. You we, you know, any given month I probably watch, >> you know, somewhere between five to six different board meetings um and sometimes that many a week. So if there's any area as you all are thinking about keep the lead or modify especially when we get to modify there's any area it's like I'm not satisfied with what we have but I don't know what it could look like that's a perfect question to ask anybody on the coaching team hey have you seen anybody else do this in other ways and then we can share some of the things

084that we've seen. >> Yeah the other question I had was related to the consent agenda. So if so we're moving toward getting our information out earlier and earlier. We are committed to that and we'll keep getting better and better on that over the next month or you know several months let's say and then if so and that the point of that is so that we get the time to look and then to ask questions and then can you go through? So, we ask the questions, district staff gets back to the board member, but then those become part of the public facing information. And so therefore, like if they're attached, there's really no need to pull them off for discussion >> because you in theory have had your question answered in advance. >> Yes. Is that

085>> ideally ideally you definitely want to have had questions answered in advance as much as possible so that as a public official you can show up as prepared as possible to represent your community. Uh like board members getting information at the last minute or being asked to vote on something that they've just received that same night like that just doesn't position you well to represent your community and it definitely doesn't meet kind of any definition of transparent that we would use. And so we generally want boards to receive their information at one time and then to actually um make decisions about that information at a different time. Uh that those would just be two separate things. Um but we also would recommend uh relative to this item that you moved up, we'd also recommend that

086the decision about whether or not the decision be made also be made sooner. So I'm thinking of another district. What they do is they they have all the information provided 12 days in advance. They've got time to ask questions. They've got time to get answers to their questions. And then they have a three-day period a week before the board meeting to um have things removed from the consent agenda. And so if there's things that they think they want removed from the consent agenda, it's during that time week in advance of the meeting that they would make that decision. That they don't actually make that decision at the meeting. that that in their in their case they're saying that it's less transparent when people don't know which things will be on consent or not. Um and

087that the more transparent way is to just let everybody know a week in advance. Here are the things that will be on consent. Um and if it's still on consent at the board meeting, that means it stays on consent. If it if it's needed to be pulled off with consent, that happened a week in advance. And and so again, they would look at what you all do and say, "We think our method is more transparent." You might look at theirs and say, "No, we think our method is more transparent." All there is to do is know that there's a different way to do everything on here. So, when we talk about keep, delete, or modify, there's a whole variety of different ways to go about each of these, and you all will just have to

088make the decision for yourself what makes the most sense for our community. >> But yeah, there are a lot of folks >> very differently than how you all do. Um, and again, none of that is kind of good or bad or right or wrong. It's just take it all in and then make the decision about what works best for y'all. Um, we've been talking a lot about some of the consent agenda items. I'm going to keep scrolling down past consent uh to get to any other items that folks want to think about. Keep, delete, or modify. Do we want to keep it? Uh, do we want to delete it? Just it shouldn't be on our agenda at all. We want to modify it. Uh, that it will be on our agenda. Uh, but let's let's

089think differently about how we do this item. Let's So, keep, delete, or modify. So, we made it all the way to the end. Uh, does anybody have any deletes or modifies that you want to talk about? Anybody have a delete or modify that you want to talk about? Well, in this particular one, 4.01, we will be removed. That would be a delete once it's gone now because we'll have the monitoring starting on October 6th. >> Gotcha. All right. So, that's an item that would be deleted and be replaced with actual monitoring progress towards your goals. >> Yep. >> Other examples of things that you would delete or modify. I liked your I mean I think it'll take some conversation from the board and the you know council and things like that but I liked your

090suggestion on the information agenda maybe reconsidering. So maybe I put number five is um modify potentially modify if there are different ways we can go about getting the information on our policies out >> makes sense >> in a more transparent way and for board education. So looking for information items, how can we be more transparent and how can we give board members their information that they need for decision-m um even sooner. Um yeah uh so that those are possible modifications and you don't have to you know kind of know the modification right now but it's something to be thinking about and then you can just ask you know grab one of us coaches and be like okay what are some other options out there for this one? Anybody else? any uh deletes or modifies? >>

091I would modify the three 3.01 superintendence update. I really like it. I think it's very important, but might include more data driven announcements. >> So, you might modify it to um be more focused on data about whether or not students are actually learning and growing. >> Yes. >> Gotcha. Anybody else? any delete or modifies. >> I don't know about the public comment section, but AJ, what would you say about how we do ours? What what would you say we could do better with that one? >> Yes. So, this question comes up a lot. So, what we did, and I will forward you this document as a result of this conversation, uh we actually sent out a survey uh to a bunch of the districts in the council. I think we got 35 responses back and

092asked them that exact question. Exactly. How do you handle public comment? Um, guess how many of those 35 were identical >> or were what was the question? >> Guess how many of those 35 uh districts handled public comment in an identical manner? >> Two. >> None. >> Zero. >> Uh 35 different districts, 35 different ways they handle public comment. Um, and so I put them all in a spreadsheet and so I will share that document. Uh, I'll probably email it over to Craig and can disseminate. U, but yeah, you can look through that. You can see all the different ways and sometimes it's driven by state law. Like there are some places where the law is that public comment is unlimited as long as people want to talk. Uh, I could point you to a

093board meeting that lasted 28 hours with 18 hours of public comment. Um, in other places public comment is optional and so you just see very different practices around it. Uh, but um, but all that I'll send the spreadsheet over and you'll get uh, an idea of what are a lot of the different practices and then you all can think for yourselves which of these would make the most sense for us. And at the end of it, you might decide that what you already do is uh sufficient. Uh but if you see something that really allows you to have a better experience for your community, uh that works better for you all, then uh that's the point of us providing that information. >> Other possible deletes or modifies? As I was looking through it, I I

094feel like that after we get through our f first couple of monitoring sessions as we go, then we might see areas that could more easily be modified or where you could improve at. I It's for me it's a pretty we've narrowed it down pretty small. We run a pretty short agenda right now. We just don't have anything that talks about student outcomes. >> Yeah. >> And once we add that >> um I feel like it will help us be able to look at it a little more. specific to what we're trying to get what has to be occurred by the what has to happen by board vote because it's the business of the district versus what we just do in the other because we think that's important for you know whatever reason. Um but that's

095kind of my thoughts is after we get to the monitoring piece for a while. >> Absolutely. Any other reflections on this agenda evaluation? Any other reflections or any other comments kind of what you're taking away from this agenda evaluation? Um yes, Madam Chair. I really appreciate that comment um Chair Lewis because um I've felt it too that our agenda has been pretty concise now and just with putting things in the consent. Um and then I guess we have more ideas now of how more we can cut down on what we spend that's not what time we spent that's not student outcome focused or on our goals. Um, in terms of also just kind of deleting, um, I mean, I'm interested to know, I mean, like cuz I think we've talked about even like roll call

096if that's necessary or pledge of allegiance, but those don't take too much time from our regular meetings. So, I don't I don't know. I put those as a delete or maybe even modify like we have a quorum, you know, and but it's just an interesting conversation to have. Um, and then as as everything else, I mean, I had keeps for a lot of them just because they seem critical, but >> we'll keep working at it. >> Yes, >> Madam Chair. >> Yes. >> Can I address the roll call one? >> Sure, >> please. >> I think we've kind of already Yes. Go ahead. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. This is uh the board clerk, Craig Kates. And you're not going to get a picture of me because there's not a camera pointed in my direction,

097but uh the clerk does not have any um preference at all on the pledge of allegiance in the moment of silence. However, the roll call does serve a critical role. When I get it's about a 15 to 20 second situation where I'm calling the role. While I do that, I'm actually selecting the board members in board docs for your voting so that when we get around to the the first vote and all the votes throughout the agenda, you get the popup box that gives you that opportunity to vote. So that 15 to 20 seconds is critical to get all the board members plugged in that are present at the meeting so that they're the ones that are voting. Uh so I just wanted everybody to know that and I appreciate you so much. Uh pledge

098of allegiance, moment of silence. It's my honor to lead those. Uh I went to school in the 1970s and we did the pledge of allegiance way back then. So, it's kind of a sentimental thing for me, but it would not hurt my feelings if the board decided to to discontinue that practice. Just wanted you to know. Thank you. >> Thank you, Craig. Okay. Um, continue on. AJ, I think we're >> other qu any other questions, comments, reflections on this agenda evaluation before we transition. And so this is not the last time that we will uh go through this. Um we almost certainly as you all are going through your own evolution um as you I think madam chair mentioned as you all get into your goal monitoring that this is something we'll bring back up

099again and just invite you you probably in a few months to check us again and say okay is this you know now with the benefit of some more learning and insight is this still the way you want to keep things or not? Um any other reflections on uh agenda evaluation? Um and my one item from this is I will send out that spreadsheet about all how the different boards handle public comment. So then the last item of this evening is to really dig in a little bit about some of your operating procedures. uh we had our team reach out um and interview y'all and you all had opportunity to provide some feedback or what are some things that are working for you? What are some things that are not working? Some things that you might

100want to modify. And so I briefly want to walk through some of these to figure out which of these do you want us to lean in on and support you with or what are things that uh we can let go. Uh because it while it may be a concern for one or two of you, it's not a concern for the board as a whole. And so all of these are just topics that came up during our one-on-one interview with this fall. So one area that there's been some amount of concern about is wondering is there a way to create more clarity uh about the distinction between board work uh and superintendent work um and how to uh put into policy and where does the board choose that line to be. I want to um invite

101some dialogue about this and so I'm going to ask you all to weigh in on this. Uh but one thing that u I think is non-negotiable has to be clear is the board and the board alone decides where the line between management and governance falls. And so there does need to be a line. You need to delegate authority to your superintendent and say okay everything beyond this we are handing to you go out and do. But the board not the superintendent not a coach not anybody else. board decides where does that line belong and then implore board members uh both individually um and the board as a whole uh to to honor that agreement uh that is put in place. Um but there's uh comments from multiple board members that just let me believe that

102this is a conversation worth having. So let me pause for a second. Uh I've got some more conversation aligned to this, but I just want to check in with you all. What thoughts or reflections do you have about ways that the board in its operating procedures? Um um my what are things that the board needs to clarify regarding what the board has delegated to the superintendent and the things that she and her team need to go do versus what the things that the board has held for itself that the board maintains responsibility for. Um what what thought again multiple of you brought multiple of you brought this up and so that's why we're bringing it to you now. Uh what thoughts and concerns do you have in this area? >> Are there areas where you

103feel like the superintendent is intruding into board work? Are there areas you feel like board or board members are intruding into superintendent? Uh any thoughts on this topic at all? Well, one question I have is that is the end goal of this session and our work together an actual like I'm saying paper, but like like are we enshrining some of these in policy or is there also going to be an accompanying like manual for lack of a better word or document that will be uh created that will talk about some of these things. >> Yeah. So based on this conversation, it will inform us, your coaching team of what are things that you all might want make modifications in your operating procedures um or not. And so if you all share some ideas uh then

104we can uh throw together a draft or something and send it back to you um for you all's consideration or modification. Uh but that's the point of this conversation to figure out. We certainly have an idea of what are things that have interest from multiple board members, but now we just need to test are these things that have an interest of the board as a whole. Would it be possible to because I'm I'm looking at this and I'm like, well, there's always room to do more of that, but then like at the first blush of it as far as superintendent and board work, I'm like, well, I guess I mean that could be a topic more, but then when you said that the governance and the operations of that line exists, the board decides that,

105like that's nothing I've really ever thought about, but that's interesting to me. But I'm wondering like what are some of the other topics? because maybe it'll spur the rest of us because I'm honestly trying to struggle back to my time of my interview and be like, "Okay, what did I say?" Like, I'm working real hard on and so I think it's been a minute since all of us have done that. Um, unless anybody else has something to go with right now. >> Okay. Yes. I was trying to find um one of our policies right now. So, B-08 um board staff communications policy. And so I mean in talking about the line so there's a line specifically communication from the board to the staff will be communicated through the superintendent. Um so that's in B-08. So,

106I'm wondering if like I know we have we also have a list of what the superintendent does on I think it might have been the first one B-01 but I don't know if there's a way maybe to make that even clear like what exactly what communications is happening you know uh that's that's what I thought about when brought brought upon this question is cuz so we can't talk to anybody alone I mean we have I which I always include Dr. pulk. That's our current policy, you know. So, that's my that's I think is something that came up. >> That's that's a little bit different than >> like the line. >> No, it's a little bit different in my opinion than what superintendent work is and what board work is. Are you saying that since B-01

107says what the superintendent shall do? There should be one that says what the board shall do as in detail. >> May maybe a little bit more in detail. I think cuz I I think from our viewers >> going by state law often times what we do. >> Mhm. So go going by the state law is where this one came from. Our board >> I'm imagining that our policies are all I'm looking at Laura to shake her head and Haley that most of our policies are all based and >> yeah I I actually doubt that. I suspect um that many of your policies regarding this topic of where is the line that the board draws between the board and superintendent are likely based on board judgment. Um for example, the ones you just described. I'd be

108surprised if you have a law about that. I sus suspect it's probably a matter of board judgment. And so um generally speaking, most states wherever the board feels like that line should be the board usually has a lot of leeway for determining that. Okay. something to look into, Chair Lewis. Um, if you want to, but I Yeah, I was kind of thinking of that one when he mentioned the question. >> Okay. Anyone else have any thoughts, statements on that? No one else on that one. Um the one that you mentioned around communication that describes uh were you asking um if >> so you you asked specifically about the one related to board uh communication going through >> yeah B-08 our B-08 is basically board superintendent communications and Jessica was reading it off but it says

109says will all go through the superintendent and that's >> is that what is is that what happens in re is the question you're asking is that what happens in reality or is the question you're asking is that what should happen >> I think she was asking is that what should happen like is that pretty like is that what you all recommend and what is best practice >> uh so again this is all over the place um across the country um there's some general general principles that people uh adhere to, but it varies a lot based on uh the personalities involved. The the general principle that we would encourage you toward um is that the board nor board members, none of them, not board chair, you know, anybody um should behave in a way that makes

110it a uh hard for staff to know um whose directions to follow. um that that to us that is a pretty easy line in the sand is that board members shouldn't behave in any way that leaves staff wondering should I do what the superintendent said or should I do what this board member said. Uh so the board has that authority. Uh but board members very much do not. Um and so anything that creates less ambiguity about that is generally helpful. anything that creates more ambiguity uh tends to kind of be a race to the bottom. Um and so I don't know if this is something that you all are experiencing or not. Um to what extent your uh board has clarity around how to avoid behaving in a way that creates a lack of clarity

111for staff. But to give you a personal example, um I was at a board meeting. is probably like my second or third board meeting. Um and um I was advocating for something and the superintendent uh raised his hand to speak. He said, "Actually, that's a really bad idea. Here's why." Um and and I thought thought about his response like, "Actually, no, that makes sense why that would be a bad idea. I can see us not wanting to do that." Um uh but I made some snide comment about how I still liked the idea even though I could understand why it was a bad idea. After the board meeting, one of the assistant superintendent comes up to me and said, "Hey, I heard what you say back there, and don't worry, I'll take care of implementing

112this." Um, and I didn't have the wisdom to understand then, but, I certainly do now that my behavior in the board meeting definitely opened up a door of nonclarity for staff as to whether they should be following the direction of of a board member or following the directions of a superintendent. And so it is very very easy for things like that to happen without a board member intending. And so I think the question that you all need to ask yourselves is does anything like this happen now? Do we create any lack of clarity in this area? And if so then we can certainly help you think about language to uh make that more clear. Um and if this is not a challenge uh if this is already an area of clarity for you all then

113we'd say leave it alone. Um any particular perspectives on this? Oh, I think it's absolutely happening with our board. We are not strictly adhering to that policy of all communications goes through. I mean, I'll speak for myself. The cabinet could like laugh and um you know, smile back at us because there's no question that various ones of us go directly to other people to ask questions and we don't strictly go through the superintendent. >> Yes. Well, let me ask let me ask a followup question on that. >> Um, does information that goes to one board member >> go to all board members? Is if what you're if what you're describing is accurate, then I suspect answer that no. >> Correct. Um but that is another what we would describe as a very bright line issue

114is that we think it is incredibly inappropriate um for staff to be picking and choosing which communities representatives have information. Like we think that is deeply inappropriate. staff that has a unethical behavior of staff to get to decide, okay, this board, this community of our city, their representative will have information, but that those other folks on the other side of the tracks, their representative doesn't have information. We think that is deeply and profoundly problematic. And so we we would be looking for any type of solve that closes the loop on that and make sure that information provided to one board member goes out to all board members. Um and to the extent that that's not happening, we think that's just really really problematic um for both operational and ethical reasons. And to follow on that,

115so not only does all the communication go to all the board members, but all communication from us goes to the superintendent. Period. Full stop. That's what your policy says, >> right? >> And then it would be your superintendent's obligation at that point to make sure that um any information she provided to one of you, she provided to all of you. >> Yeah. >> Um but if what if what you're describing is that board members are having their own side relationships with staff. um and that is allowing some board members to have privileged access to information at the expense of other board members. We would say that is that is a problematic practice that we would encourage you to find a way to end whether that's through existing operating procedure or through new operating procedure. >>

116Okay. I do want to address I don't think we're necessarily not adhering to the policy because it says through the super through the superintendent's office and so oftent times over the 10 years it's like you email the superintendent or whoever it is if they give you permission Alicia Sefeld copy this superintendent on it ask the question so in theory in the past that has been going through the superintendent's office that's not currently the way that we're supposed to be doing it now but in the past it was it was just an interpretation of the policy because it wasn't like set in stone. It didn't say to the through the person who holds the superintendent title currently. It says through the superintendent's office. >> Yeah. >> So, >> just I don't >> And that was my

117understanding too, Paula, is if we got permission from Dr. Pul, we could talk to Yeah. whichever person and maintain that relationship. Um, and if anything changes, would tell you. But yes, and I'd point back to B-01, superintendent of schools policy. the superintendent is responsible for everything that happens in the district. So, of course, like if I meet somebody that works in OKCPS, I'm not going to tell them what to do. That's not my job, not my purview. Um, but now I am finding myself like asking the question, do you work for OKCPS? If we're talking about OKCPS, okay, then I really can't talk to you like this, you know, because I have to go through superintendent. Um, so almost that communication to us, how does that work? Um, I think maybe it's not really clear

118in our policies like that communication from other people, >> the the inbound communication of people reaching out to you. >> Yeah, that that is something that's come up. Um, and we could certainly put together based on your existing policies u some rough drive guidance on what it might look like. Um so the board members have clarity on what is our obligation both outbound and inbound like if that if that is a gap in your current policies we can certainly uh make some recommendations on that front. Uh other thoughts on this topic before we transition? I've got a few other items on here, but other thoughts on this topic of, you know, board work, superintendent work, and kind of the line that the board creates and and the line that the board has an obligation to

119defend regarding where it places at. So, related to that, the next conversation here, I'm looking at my notes, uh, clear procedures about communication, which I think is probably very much related to this topic that we're having. Um uh and looking at these notes, yeah, it's really that last point that you're making, both inbound and outbound communication expectations. Um and so that is that is something that we can uh we can try to identify some uh options um and feed those back to you. So I feel like you've already discussed that and I've got some ideas uh we can put on paper. Um the next one is around um see I have a note here around consent agenda uh not being modified at board meetings. So we actually discussed this earlier um where this uh I

120mentioned that there's another board that actually does that where the time to modify consent agenda is actually before the meeting not at the meeting. Um the rationale behind this is that basically if it's possible to modify the consent agenda at the board meeting then um then what items does the staff have to be prepared for? Uh if if you can modify the consent agenda at the board meeting, what items does the staff have to be prepared for? >> All of them. Yeah. Um, and so the basic thinking is if there's a rule to, hey, if it's on the consent agenda when the meeting starts, it's staying on the consent agenda or it's getting bumped to the following month, then staff know if it's on the consent agenda, then we don't actually have to spend all

121our time preparing for it. And so the other district that did this, I I think part of their argument was we just wanted Todd, we wanted staff to be able to think differently about how they uh spend their time preparing for board meetings and be able to really go deeper into some instead of shallow on all. Any thoughts on that? >> I like it. I like that. Um and I know we've we've been working on getting our agenda prepped earlier. So that would just that would cause us to also be more prepared with our consent agendas and um pulling it out pulling pulling the things out we need specifically and then have the staff more focused on that. Just more effective time use for sure. >> Currently I mean we probably on average if I

122went back over the last six meetings I bet people haven't pulled off more than 10 to 12 agenda items probably to discuss or to be voted on. Sometimes it's just sort of a recap of answers that have already been given. But as a rule, our can but I can see why there'd be more need for kind of more specifics in our procedural manual because just because this board doesn't pull a lot of stuff off, it doesn't mean the next round of elected board members wouldn't. And so I can see um I don't feel like it's a huge time crunch here and and this board has been pretty respectful of that. Um, but I can see how that would be useful. >> Any other thoughts on this? >> All right. Um so then the next uh

123topic that is on here um beyond communication is talking about uh is looking at to what extent is the board um involved in other operational matters or to what extent has the board defined which operational matters it wants to be involved in. Is this a conversation you all have had? uh round, we have not had that specific conversation, but roundabouts, we've got a few hot topics right now that are would be quote outside of outcome goals, but whether it be running the next bond or bond projects that are currently coming out of the ground. I mean, there's several things that how we've talked about having a work session on how do what is the this district envision that we need in 10, 15, 20 years worth of buildings. what are we going to do with

124historic buildings? Um kind of some setting some parameters around that, but we haven't done any of that yet. >> Um is there a desire to um have any type of policy language that helps the board think through that process or is this just something the board wants to leave as uh kind of we deal with stuff as it comes up? I think it would be very useful personally because one of probably the most common questions I hear have heard from board members that are here now and have been in the past is when do we get to talk about that? How do we have that discussion? I will add that over my time on the board, the because this kind of blurs into the what is the work of the superintendent and what is the

125work of the board and not having clear lines that gives the board an avenue to voice the um direction and perspective of the community in some of these operational conversations like uh Capitol Hill High School. That was one that we I will say personally like I I probably got into the superintendent's lane, but there was not a clear method for me to ensure that the voice of my constituents were being heard adequately that I felt. And so I feel like this would be mutually protective for us to have that, especially as we do continue have these con constructive sometimes but uh very honest conversations around the infrastructure of our district. And I think that we have to be very clear in our delineation between what is an operating procedure like I don't think we should

126be in giving you know um feedback to managers or superintendent you know like supervisors things like that but the logistics of the investments. >> Yeah. >> I mean it almost falls into the fiduciary >> category for me whenever we're looking at those. >> Agreed. Anyone else have thoughts on this topic? >> I think I don't know. >> We're good. >> Okay. So that's some that's something we can certainly uh put um some um pen to paper on um and share how some other uh boards have kind of tried to think about that and tried to identify what are the things that the board um that are of a nature that the board um weighs in on versus things that the board actually kind of owns the decision on. Um and so we could definitely put

127uh pen to paper on that um and and bring bring some ideas back. Um are there other topics that uh um >> it kind of made me think of a question actually not so maybe a topic but >> so since the board is the voice of the community or the value you know we represent the values of the community what we're supposed to be pushing forward that's kind of customer service in a random way but that feels like that falls into communications too and how we engage engage our community. Um, but the B that is definitely operational, but the board yet again would be the ones that would say, "Hey, how we're engaging the community is not meeting the goals of the community or or the values or I don't really know. Does that make

128sense?" >> Yeah, this is a really important uh distinction. So, I appreciate you bringing it up. So, there are two different issues at play here. Um, one is the distinction between representing the wants and uh, desires of community members as distinct from representing the vision and values of the community. So, if somebody rolls up on you at church on Sunday and says, "Hey, I think, you know, we should, you know, have a tuba team, you know, at the high school." Um, that's certainly, you know, their right to have that opinion. Um but I think you would be mistaken if as a board member one of you showed up at the next board meeting and says hey the vision of this community is we need a tuma team you know at the high school um what

129you've got there in that moment is you have the wants and you know interest of a community member but you don't have the vision and values of the community. So, we would argue that really the only way for you to be able to authentically say, "Hey, I'm representing the vision values of the community." is when the board as an entity goes out and does listening on that topic and says, "We specifically want to do listening and hear from the community what their vision and values are." Um, and we're going to systematically listen for that. In that moment, I think now you're actually speaking to the vision of values of the community. But everything outside of that is usually just uh the wants and interest of individual community members. So that's one piece of it. Uh

130there's a separate piece of it that's about uh customer service. But before I get to that part, before I get to that topic, does that make sense that the difference between the vision and values of the community as a whole versus the wants and interest of community members? Does that distinction make sense? >> Yes. our historic building. That'll be one of those things that comes up that that maybe not be the wanted one at the at the grocery store, but over time we can go back and look as buildings have come offline what that looks like. So, we're hearing from the community, but I don't we've never really surveyed the community about that. So, yes, makes total sense. um the oneoff versus okay this is a consistent issue that we're having when the district doesn't

131move one way or moves one way whichever way I mean >> yeah so that's one piece of the puzzle the other piece of the puzzle um is that there's is the um the community plays two different roles on one hand there's the community as a whole that is the owner of the school system like the school system does not belong to the school board. The school system does not belong to the superintendent. Uh the school system belongs to the community. The community owns the school system. Uh not the board. Uh the board is the representative of the community as owners. Uh but the board doesn't own the school district. The community does. Um separated apart from the role of owner of the schools, there are some members of the community who are customers of the

132school. What's what's an example of community members who are customers of the school district in addition to being owners of the school district? >> Our parents. >> Yeah. The obvious example is your parents. Your parents are both owners of the district. Um uh just like everyone else who is part of the community, but they also have a separate uh relationship with the district is that of customers. What's the difference between someone being an owner of the district and the customer of the district? What's the difference between those uh two roles? >> Well, as a customer, we're interfacing like we have an experience with the district every day. um when we you know we interact with the district in in multiple ways from when we drop our kids off to pickup and everything that all the

133everything that happens in between. >> Customers also have options to go to other places of business. Customers expect a business or product or ser I'm sorry a service or product and then owners I mean they they yeah they own it. They owners have to keep the lights on. They got to figure out the Yeah, these are important distinctions. Um the question is in a school system who is responsible for providing service to the owners in a school system who's responsible for providing service to the owners. >> I'd say the superintendent and her team because that would be daily operations. the superintendent team because it's daily operations. Anybody else? Who in the school system is responsible for providing service to the owners? And the next follow-up question I'll ask is who's responsible for providing service to

134the customers? Well, who's responsible for providing service to the owners? >> Would that be us? >> Uh that would definitely be. Yes, that that's correct. That that why is it that the school board is responsible for providing service to the owners? Were there representatives? Were there >> because you were the voice of the community. You are the voice of the community as owners. Interestingly enough, whose job in the school system is it to provide customer service? >> Soup. >> Yeah. The soup and the staff. And so that's the distinction is that there is a customer service role that has to be played in the district, but the board members are by definition the worst possible humans in the school system to provide customer service. >> Uh why do I say that? Why do I suggest

135that the board members can just kind of organizationally are in the worst possible position to provide customer service? Why do I say that? because uh most likely whatever happens in the boardroom is most likely to echo in the classroom. >> Yes. So there's certainly a uh there is certainly a distance between the boardroom and the classroom and what happens in the boardroom is definitely going to echo in the classroom, you know. But if somebody shows up and they have a problem with their teacher, should they go to a staff or should they go to the board? >> The staff. >> Why? board doesn't do day-to-day activities. >> Yeah. There's just nothing you can do about it. So, if somebody has a problem with their te with their kids' teacher and they come to the board,

136what are you actually going to do? Like in reality, if somebody comes to up to you tonight and says, "I got a problem with my kids teacher." What are you going to do? >> Have you talked to their boss? >> Yeah. You like, "Have you talked to the teacher or have you if you've talked to the teacher, have you talked to the principal?" That that's exactly it. You're not actually going to do anything. you're going to refer them to the appropriate customer service representative. And so the board does h owe the community service. The board owes the community service, but it owes the community as owners service. Um staff owe the community as customers service. Why does that distinction matter? Like why why am I bothering to uh name this distinction and why does this

137distinction matter? Well, I mean it it it helps us stay in our lane. I mean it helps define the different roles. What's board work and what's superintendent work? >> So is about role definition. Anybody else? Why does it matter? Uh this difference between customer service and owner service, why does it matter? Anybody else? >> We were hired is a weird way to say it, but I guess hired by the people. And so I mean they're they're our bosses in a way. No, that is actually absolutely the the word I would use is that the board members are hired by the community and the community are are in fact the boss is organizationally the community is above the board uh from an organizational perspective. That is absolutely correct. That's absolutely correct. Uh, anybody else? All right.

138So, we've gone through a lot of different topics this evening. Uh, we talked about time use evaluation and we looked at monitoring and how it's different from everything else. Uh, we talked about agenda evaluation. Uh and then we talked through some of the interviews uh some of you all's comments and talked about some different uh areas of board operating procedure um and any modifications you all make. We've got a bunch of homework. We've been taking notes during this and so there's some things that we'll put on paper and send to you all um and uh there is a spreadsheet about um public comment that I will share with you all um as a way of closing out with our last few moments together. What's one thing that you learned, one thing that's interesting, one thing

139that you'll take away from our time together this evening? Uh, who will be the first to share? And let's just go around the room. What's one thing you learned, one thing you'll take away from our time together this? >> Jessica, you want to start down there? >> Let's Let's do it. Um, yes. So, I definitely learned um the difference. So I think the conversation we had that was between the difference between wants and desires versus an actual vision of the community is very different and I know we've come across maybe some more vocal people than others. Um so ensuring that if we do receive some community um feedback that it's it's more spread wide. So it's almost like we're getting our own data from the community. Um, I thought that was a really interesting piece

140and um, you know, I have to think about that more in terms of what I even voice what is the community's vision versus maybe an individual's want. >> I to me it's becoming uh, more crystallized, more uh, concrete I guess is the right word for it. Um, at from the beginning it seemed very nebulous and kind of out there, but now it's becoming concrete. we're getting a a definite pattern, a definite way to go and I'm really excited about that. I think I was um pleasantly surprised with our exercise going through our agenda because I do and um Paula said this that like we've done a lot of work already to streamline our agenda in a way that I think we've made room and I don't think it's going to be as drastic um or

141dramatic of a lift for us to add that 50%. I'm not as scared as I was. And maybe that's building what Dana from the beginning our two-day session to now. I feel like I've gotten so much more comfortable with the work and I'm not nerv I I feel confident that we're going to be able to work our way toward the 50% of our agenda being spent on student outcomes. And it's not as um scary to me anymore. I think I can see it now because of work we've already been doing to streamline and um try to make space for it. So that's mine. >> Okay. >> Um I think I like I hadn't heard the word the board decides where governance, you know, ends and operations begins. I thought that was interesting. Um, but I

142really my probably what I liked the most was knowing that after you guys talked to however many of us you talked to for your interviews that it were a pretty consistent board. There were three to four issues that rose to the top. So, I thought that was pretty cool that we're all kind of seeing and thinking the same things, moving the same way. one >> at the beginning I was u overwhelmed with all the information um but at the end of the day like Miss Fuentes said the community hire us and if we don't deliver a good product customer have choices so I as a board member have to do my part in order to keep a customer happy meg Um, I think my biggest takeaway is the currently gray line between the work of

143the superintendent and the work of the board has like my entire time on this board has that has been a consistent theme of when are we getting into each other's chili. Um, so I think I'm cautiously optimistic to see how the other some other schools and other districts have handled this in a way that will be beneficial for all parties. So I'm optimistic. >> Dr. Bulk, >> I just want to say thank you for the total engagement of the board. It's been enlightening to sit and watch the engagement between you all and it says a lot in regards of two-way communication being the forefront um as you all put forth what the community has asked you to do in regards of the vision and the value. So I just want to say thank you for

144your engagement. >> You're welcome. Thank you. AJ, you gonna wrap us up? >> Uh, well, we've got our homework to do. Um, we've definitely really enjoyed getting prepared for the session and we're excited about the upcoming training sessions uh that will build on this. Uh, but we will go to work getting our homework done. Um, and I will put a oneweek uh time limit on us. We will try to get you some rough draft language about some of these ideas and that spreadsheet with some additional ideas. We'll try to get that back to you by end of business next Monday. Um, and as always, if there's anything else you need, uh, you've got, uh, three of us on the team who are working hard to help you all serve your students well. Thank you for

145having us. >> All right. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Uh, that and double check my notes from Craig. Make sure I'm not missing one. Where'd I put it? >> I am not. Uh, I'll make a motion to adjurnn. Is that >> call the vote? >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any oppose? Say nay. Hearing none, the motion carries. The board is adjourned. Thank you. I was