001Great. Thank you, Madam Chair. Just want to point out to everybody, we are live streaming tonight and we would ask that everyone speaking to the microphone so that the people watching the live stream will be able to hear your comments. Please turn your mic on when you speak. And if you would try to remember to turn it off when you're not speaking, we'd appreciate that. And if everyone would please um take a minute to silence your cell phones, we'd also appreciate that. If you need to have an extended conversation with the person next to you or on your phone, please do so in the lobby. Please note, spontaneous comments from the floor are not permitted and individuals who exhibit disruptive or distracting behavior will be asked to leave. Thank you, Madam Chair. Okay. Did you
002call in the role? Thank you for that reminder. Like, I can go, but All right. So, the clerk will now call the role. Paula Lewis. Yes. Present. Carol Thompson. Present. Lori Bowman. Present. Jessica Suentes. Present. Dana Meister. Present. Mike Shelton. Present. Juan Lacona. Present. And me. Melhaney. We have a quorum. Okay. Um, so we do have the uh understanding at work sessions that we are two hours hard and fast unless the group gets together and decides to be later. But since we started at 5:31, that would be 7:31. Um, we have quite a bit to go through. We are super glad to have AJ and Carol, Coach Carol with us tonight. We have to say Coach Carol or not. We think we're talking about Carol Thompson over here. So, you're affectionately Coach Carol. That's how
003we keep you separated. Um, let's go ahead into the consent agenda. Is there It's a personnel report and an encumbrance report. Is there any member who desires to pull anything off the encumbrance report to be discussed or to be voted on separately? Okay. I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda. Is there a second? Second. Call the vote. Paula Lewis, yes. Carol Thompson, yes. Lori Bowman, yes. Jessica Suentes, yes. Dana Meister, yes. Mike Shelton, yes. And Juan Lakona, yes. Having received seven I votes and zero nay votes, the motion carries. Wonderful. All right. So, the purpose of tonight's work session is our transition to future-driven student outcomes governance. We've all worked really hard on this to get us where we are. Um, the outcome tonight we desire is for our goals and guard rails
004that have been out to the public for a while will officially become the district's goals and goals and guard rails um as voted on by the board. I'd like to recognize Superintendent Pulk to get us going. Thank you, Chair Lewis. Um board members, um I want to take just a moment to acknowledge principles in the room. They actually had a workshop on today with um our coaches and so it's very exciting just now to look around when they could have left the building. They have chosen to stay. So I'm going to take uh opportunity to say I see you. Thank you for being here. As I introduce our our coaches to some, uh please note that this work that we have started um is very intense, very focused, but it's very intentional as we look
005at how to improve student outcomes. As we look at adult behavior, starting with ourselves, this workshop is for our board. We're just privileged enough to be in the room as they make the commitment to the community. And I say well done. With that, I turn the mic back over, Chair Lewis. Thank you. Thank you. So, haven't done this before you guys. So, what my notes say to do is I'm supposed to make a motion um to approve goals and guard rails and then discussion happens after that second or do we want to do something before that? I'm asking y'all as the coaches up there of how you typically run these discussion. Okay. All right. I will make a motion to uh for discussion and possible action to adopt the OKCPS board of education's future-driven student
006outcomes governance goals and guard roles. Is there a second? Second. Call the vote. Paula Lewis, yes. Lori Bowman, yes. Carol Thompson, yes. Dana Meister, yes. Jessica Suentes, uh, yes. Mike Shelton, yes. Wanda Kona, yes. Having received seven I votes and zero nay votes, the motion carries. Yep. There was no discussion on that. We didn't have discussion. Sorry. But it's we can discuss now. Very well. Or do you want to resend the vote? You guys, how do you all want to do it? Mr. Childers, resend the vote. Send it. they can still have discussion on the item at this point back to it and and uh reconsider the vote if necessary. Okay, that sounds great. Okay, we've have the goals and guardrails. They are in front of us. We have all kinds of stuff in front
007of us right now, but the goals and guardrails is what we're here for. So, anybody would like to start discussion? Um, we've we've done everything we said told the public we would do at this time. I will. Okay. Okay. um discussing draft guard rail number four. I had um someone from the CTE department contact me and say that we should add that as part of because it's not a part of fine arts. It's not a part of extracurricular. it's not a part of rigorous coursework and they don't want to get lost in what we're doing here as far as getting lost within the uh I guess the realm of workforce because they are part of the the normal school day and they're they are not um listed here. Okay. So for just the public I'll
008read it. Guard rail number four says fair access to enriching opportunities. The superintendent shall not allow disparities in access to enriching programs such as fine arts, extracurriculars, rigorous core coursework or instructional support across school communities. And then just to clarify, CTE, Carol, you used it. Career technical educ college and college and career. Okay. Well, CTE, you said C. I'm just making sure we get it where we want it. Yes. Sorry. Go ahead. College. CTE. If we want to put CTE in, I just want to know what we're I know it's college. Yeah. What's the acronym mean? Career tech. That's what I thought was career tech. Okay. You said college. What was that? It's been so many things. Okay. Yeah. I thought it was career tech. CT. Okay. Yeah. I thought it was. I was like,
009now I'm real confused. Yeah. Okay. I heard I want to say it's career and technical education. Okay. I thought I heard CC. Okay. Got it. CT. Okay. So, basically what uh board member Thompson is bringing up is that should we add career because we are so heavy into workforce development right now. Should we add something into this guard rail that protects that part of the district? Chair Lewis, if I may. Yes. Um just for clarity, uh member Thompson. Yeah. was the concern that in guardrail 4 that CTE they didn't see representation of CTE in the particular guardrail itself. So as it describes such as fine arts, extracurriculars, rigorous coursework that they wanted to see CTE named in that piece. Yes. Okay. Um I would just draw attention to uh goal number three which is our
010post-secondary opportunity goal and interim goal one for goal number three does specifically name CTE. Uh as a as a strategic initiative for us to boost CTE enrollment. Um so just wanted to make that as a point of clarity that we do have CTE named in the goals but not necessarily the guardrail specifically. Okay, Mike, I I'm just gonna kind of first of all ask you specifically our purpose and outcome of this particular thing right here. We're supposed to question Yeah. Well, right now, yes, but approving the goals and guardrails. And I apologize for calling the vote before discussion. I was still trying to read through everything that was in front of me. There's a lot here right now. Um but yes, so we can always go back and revote but that is the goal of
011it. So anything you have concerns over the goals, concerns over the guards. Now in theory, we've had this discussion already because we had it at the lack last work session. So the district went back and took all the information we gave them and then put it out to the public like they said they would do and for that period of time and now they're bringing it back to us for that. Okay. I just heard Career Tech Education brought up uh and I'm not picking on any school, but I'm going to call the school out that class in school advanced studies denies entry to students if they want a some if they want to do something in career tech. you cannot go. They Metro Tech is denied uh access to those students and those students are
012denied access to Metro Tech and this is factual if they so choose to attend. And I can tell you for a fact that Metro Tech uh the first year those students get out, Metro Tech has a number of class and SAS students and and I'm talking about a graduated student headed over to Metro Tech. Uh because they wanted they wanted to get a quality education that class in SAS provides and which every parent wants their kid to have. Every kid wants to have that access. But they also wanted to do that and attend Metro Tech to get a technical thing. Right now, currently there's a the principal has had the ability to deny that access. Honestly, that's not surprising to me because they're all on a a major track and they have a certain amount
013of courses that they have to take to graduate with that major. So, that's not surprising to me. I don't know anything else other than that, but that's not surprising to me in any shape or form because of that. And I was just wondering, is that because of the IB track? It's all of them. I mean, I can only like as a parent, I can only speak for drama, but like you have to take two drama classes every semester. And on a block class, that means you're taking three hours one day, an hour and a half. So up to like 15 hours of your week is in your major, whether that be IB, drama, cla, classical, guitar, orchestra, all of them. And so then when you add into the standards of what you have to have
014with your sciences and everything else, as a parent, there's no room. Like there's just there's no room. I can see that with the with the IB track at least because I I know that one, but I can see that. I I know for I don't know if Mike knew about that or not, but I I knew about it. I just, you know, you brought up career tech and it just sparked a a uh something that I do know about is career tech and uh just making sure that if a student chooses to go, but understanding that a parent wants their kid to get the best education. They don't want, you know, they may not want to go to the neighborhood school. They may want to qualify to go to class in SAS. They shouldn't be
015denied access into one of Oklahoma's best schools, if not the Oklahoma's best school, the best school because they choose a career tech education. That's all I'm saying. I don't know where it belongs. I'm trying to figure it all out as we as we go along. I've got some correspondent. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, no. I think this conversation is pretty interesting because if we do add career tech to our draft card role number four, would that be what you brought up, Mr. Shelton, would that be in direct conflict of providing or not allowing disparities in access? I guess because it's a choice school. It is. It's choice. That's an operations. Yeah, it's in their charter of what they offer. Are we still in the capacity to be able to edit these guardrails? If we edit them, we
016go back and we will have to have another meeting to approve them because we I don't think they can be I don't I don't know that that's a quick timely. Okay. I I just on CT I'm just a curiosity question here. So, rigorous coursework, instructional support, and it does say such as. So, extracurriculars, while that's not an extracurricular because it's during the classroom, but it does fall directly into the goal that Mr. Galloway was talking about, post-secary options. So, in order for the district to meet goal number three, they won't be able to not put funding or focus on college and career readiness. I mean, in fall of 2026, we have flex spaces opening across the district. I'm okay with that being in there that way. Don't be Yeah, I do. As the interim goal
017be that Mr. Galloway Okay. So, can you read the interim goal again? Jason, you mentioned Yes. This particular interim goal and again leading to the overall goal which is the percentage of 11th and 12th graders who have completed a post-secary option. one of those options being um CTE. Uh but the first interim goal speaks to the percentage of eighth grade students enrolled in at least one pre-postsecary opportunity such as honors course. uh a course for high school credit or a CTE elective will increase from 59.3% in SY2024 to 68% in SY 2028 as measured at the beginning of the second and fourth quarters of each school year and we have a copy of that we don't have a copy of that interums let me deliver that So, the interims fall directly under the super under
018the district's work. That's how they will when we get our five-year calendar. Please correct me if I'm incorrect on this. The five-year calendar will be calendared out of when we get reports on their interim goals. And my understanding is they're about 95% done with the actual numbers in them that they have all of them measuring out, ready to go. Um, Dr. P can talk a little more about that. I just want to ensure we and I'm glad our coaches are in the room. Remember what's superintendent work and what's board work. Tonight is our focus in regards of the board work. And we can get too deep into the interims, which is then when we go to work. And there's this isn't even close to final until the goals are. So this is just a rough
019rough so that you can see that there is work happening. But I just want to ensure this is not set in stone. This is an active cabinet working to predict what will come. This isn't because we can't get ahead of you all. But I got I have to ensure my team has the capacity to make a lift. So that's I'm I'm mind I want to be mindful. I'm great. I'm glad he's ready. We stay ready. But don't bank on this because it could change based off of what you all say. Once you hit the interims, now you're in our work. How'd that do coaches? Well, that's not Yeah, it's accurate that the board is responsible for the selection of the goals and the guardrails that represent the community's vision and values. Uh the superintendent is
020responsible for the adoption of the interim metrics, which is how the board will receive evidence of progress uh relative to the goals and guardrails. uh if um the board is looking at the interims um and deems that uh they are uh inaccurate uh interpretation of the board's intention, goals and guardrails, uh the board is well within uh its rights to say so and call upon the superintendent uh to adjust accordingly or for the board to adjust its goals and guardrails to be more explicit about what it intended. Um but you know the basic you know comments that you're making that the board owns one and the superintendent owns the other is absolutely correct. Thank you sir. Yes Mike and I'm certain my next comment is probably more interum. So do I bring it up or
021do you want me to shut up? If you don't think that they align with the goals I mean I think our job is to make sure that their interims are aligning up. They they define the interims, but we can say, "Oh, the interims don't align with our goals." Okay. So, I'm not sure. So, I'm just going to say it if you don't mind. Fine. I I just Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah. Um I I my I have one that would go along with the four uh guard rail four. Not necessarily 100% sure. I might be speaking that line, but we can barely hear. I apologize. Thank you. Yes, thank you. I apologize. Um, again, I'm going to talk about class and SAS currently. At Northeast, thank you so much. Don't have those Northeast alumni on
022me at Northeast. Class and SAS at Northeast. uh currently educates um I mean for whole numbers they have over a thousand students I suppose I suppose a third of those students are from outside of Oklahoma City public school district and I'm trying to figure out is it the board's responsibility or the interim goals interim guard rail goals responsibility to determine how do we lessen the lesson uh increase the number of students that we are from Oklahoma City public schools that we're allowing into class in SAS. How are we decreasing that number of uh students that we're subsidizing from other school districts? I pulled some numbers and in those numbers it said that hundreds of students are on a maybe list. We even got students on no list. How do we get increase that number of
023people that are on the maybe list of in uh getting that opportunity versus bringing in somebody from Yukon to Oklahoma uh to Oklahoma City public schools subsidizing their education uh let's let in some of our Oklahoma City public school students. Was that mud? I if I hope that made a little bit of sense because we are bringing on another application school, high school, and just making sure that we're doing a better job of making uh increasing the number of Oklahoma City public schools being able to get into those those opportunities. I don't know necessarily if that falls as a guard rail or a goal in that discussion. Um, I'm trying to connect it. Historically though, there has already been a push from this board nine years ago. I just got on the board that they
024do look at IND districts first, but they have to meet the criteria and the testing criteria in the fifth grade is what the original admissions criteria is. And so in my mind, and I could be wrong about this, but I'm going to bring it right back to SOFG, is that if the district does a great job of meeting these goals, more of our OKCPS students will be able to meet that entrance criteria in the fifth grade. But in order to handle the rigor, you have to be able to have that fifth grade entrance piece or you audition in the sixth grade for one of their five or six majors. I can't remember off the top of my head without counting, five or six majors. But by doubling it with Pathway to Greatness in 20, what
025was that? 2018 1819. We did create more seats and you can go back and look at that and see how many more kids did get into class middle school and class in SAS Northeast because we went from having a school that house 1,000 to,00 max to now they have about 2,000ish probably between the two. So even though there's a few hundred that are from out of district, it's not as many percentage-wise as it was prior to the district the board nine years ago saying we want to prioritize in district and then with pathway to greatness doubling the size of the school. I also would just add that I think to me we're getting dangerously into operations and outside the bounds of this conversation and I think if this board wants to take a look at
026our choice option schools that I think we probably need to take it offline and use our policies to bring it before the board for discussion. Um that's also that's my view of this conversation. I have something. Yes. Um yeah and and I like that Lori as well. Um but I do also think that it is um this conversation is pretty relevant just because of the wording across school communities. Um so yeah when it comes to I guess these um our our application schools. I mean what communities are we serving? Um are we serving OKCPS? I can tell you for a fact, a third of our students that are attending those schools come from outside of Oklahoma City Public School District. And maybe we could table this conversation for another time uh to continue to focus
027on it, but I appreciate you bringing this up uh board member Shelton. Anyone else? Okay. All right. So, I'll write a note here to look at choice schools and policy. Got it. All right. Okay. Well, shall we just start with draft goal number one? Anybody have anything they want to add to that or have any conversations about it? I got something. Okay. Um, yes. for draft goal number one. Um I think if we could go over again why the percentage might not be as big as maybe some people want it to be. Um we could probably say the same thing for number two. Um just why why is it so difficult to really push that needle? Um I know I've had a few constituents I've shared some of the comments with you guys too. um
028that it seems like it's it's not a lot but um it it it is a lot considering we have a really big ship to steer. I mean if anybody could provide some clarity on that before the district gets going on that just from a board member seat. What I look at that is that the move from 25 to 40% is an average across 33,000 kids and over 30 schools. And if you had one school system of a thousand kids, it might be possible to look at that district and say, "Okay, I can move this significantly more." But you're going to have some of our schools in my mind who might be they're going to have to be higher than 40% in order to get to that average. But you're still going to have some that
029are probably aren't quite there. And so when you're looking at the district the size of our district, it doesn't mean we're just shooting for 40%. It means we're shooting for the best that every single school leader in school can get them to. And I think that uh I'll leave that to Dr. Pulen after that. I'm going to actually tap uh Miss McGee, but thank you for bringing that out, Chair Lewis, in regards of the average because please note we have schools that are higher than, but when you do the average, that's just in that spot. My team knows that we take students where they are and we grow students. But when you look at a collective organization, that's when all are in there together and we must have some mark. I look forward to the
030day I can come in and say that mark needs to be moved. But this is being realistic and please note in order to get that 40 I have to have some higher and I will have some lower. But we must guarantee growth of each student. So I appreciate Chair Lewis bringing that. Uh Miss McGee, will you go ahead and answer that on the cabinet level? Yes, thank you for the kind question. I think it's really important for us to look at our historical data and know that our um research team did a lot of hard work in ensuring that these metrics were attainable uh but also a stretch. So, if you look at our fourth grade students uh performing on the reading test in Oklahoma City public schools in the year 2021, there were 8%
031of our students who were proficient and 1% advanced, which is a total of 9%. In 2022, that number increased to 10%. And in 2023, the number increased to 12%. Last year, we had an increase, but we also know there was some changes in the cut scores. So our baseline data is 25%. So if you look at our historical data, um we will be stretching to reach that interim goal from moving from 25% to 40% of students in fourth grade being proficient or advanced within a 5-year time frame. That stretches us from where we were growing at about 1% per year to 3% per year. Additionally, I would share that the state uh was performing in 2022 at 23% proficient across the state proficient or advanced in reading in the fourth grade and the following year
032they were at 24%. So our growth statewide we are staying with the state in regard to about a 1% growth in achievement year overyear. So, um, while I understand and we all definitely want every student to be performing at the proficient or advanced level, when you look at our metrics, this is a really great stretch grow goal for Oklahoma City Public Schools. Um, and we want to meet that goal and then we want to exceed that goal. Okay. Thank you. All right. So, do you have anything else on that, Jessica? It's pretty good. Thank you. All right. Okay, so we're at six o'clock. We do have three topics on the agenda that have to be discussed with our coaches today. So we it um they want about 30 minutes each on each of them. So
033do we want how do we want to proceed with goals and guardrails? Is there anything else that's pressing that wasn't talked about when we had the last work session over goals and guardrails? Um anything that someone feels like needs to be added? Got to go back to the drawing board. Okay. Do we need to recall the vote? Do have the vote again. I think if you just open it up for motions, that would then give board members the opportunity if if they believe that another motion is necessary to change uh the last vote, that that would be sufficient. Okay. If anybody wanted to make a motion um to have another vote for goals and guards, this would be the time to do that. Okay, then goals and guard goals and guards have passed. Good there.
034All right, thank you guys. Okay, now I'll turn it over to uh AJ and Coach Carol. Um, first just congratulations on the progress you're making on creating an organization that is more tightly focused and aligned around the needs of your students uh as described by your community. Um, and we're just uh pleased to be able to have the opportunity to support you in that work. Uh, this evening we've got three things that we want to move through. We will move through all three of them with haste. And so uh necessarily because of the amount of time that you have available for this meeting, we will not be able to do really deep dives in any of them. Just know that as you have additional questions or want to go deeper into any of these, just
035get reach out to us and we're happy to make time one-on-one uh to you know be responsive to whatever questions you have or go even deeper. But the intention is to you know have enough of an overview so there's enough of a shared understanding uh that you all can conduct business on a go forward basis at each of these areas. Uh what we'll be looking at first is how does the board hold itself accountable and then after that how does the board hold the superintendent accountable. There are two ways that we'll look at board accountability this evening. One is how the board uses its time. Second is how to what extent is the board following through on the commitments that it made to itself about being more student outcomes focused. And then third how will
036the board evaluate its superintendent? Um and we'll proceed through them in that order. So the first piece is how does the board demonstrate that it's investing its time in the ways that it's told its community will invest that you will make the um learning of your students your top priority and that you'll demonstrate that by spending at least 50% of your minutes each month monitoring progress. The way that you'll answer that question because this is not a matter of making it up or kind of pretending that we are when the there is no evidence. Instead, you'll have receipts and the those receipts are in the form of your monthly time use evaluations. And so, each of you should have a document that at the top of it says board monthly time use evaluations. Uh, it
037looks kind of like this. So, each of you should have one of those at your seat. In addition to that, to make this easy, there's also a packet that says minutes of regular uh meeting, the board of trustees, joyful school district. Uh these are makebelieve minutes actually they're based on an actual district but uh these are just sample minutes uh just for the purpose of practicing because all we're doing tonight is practicing. We're not doing this for real. We're in a learning space. Um and so what you will do is actually I want to invite you to uh u work with your uh shoulder partner that'll actually allow us to move more quickly is to look through here and identify the May meetings. So the very first page it said this is a regular meeting
038of the board of trustees. It was held May 21st. All right. So that was a May meeting. Uh so then if you turn the page uh two pages says this is a workshop that was held on May 4th. All right. So this is also a May meeting. So what you want to do is for any May meetings that you find, you want to take a moment and identify where on this time use evaluation does each item fit and how much time was spent. So we'll do a few of these together first and then I'll have you work with your shoulder partner to just go through and finish up the month of May. So looking at the very first item on the May 21st board meeting. So, what's the very first item for the May 21st
039board meeting? Call order. Call to order. How much time was spent on a call to order? One minute. One minute. All right. So, the question is, looking at your time use evaluation, you've got a handful of different options for how that one minute uh could be captured. Was it time spent on visioning goals? Uh was it goal setting? Was it time spent monitoring goals? Was it time spent goal guardrail setting? Was it time spent monitoring guardrails? Was it part of superintendent evaluation? Was it voting? So you have that second column that says activities. Which activity would you put call to order under? As you look through all of the possible activities, that second column, all the possible activities, where would you put call to order and why? Other. Why would you put it under other?
040doesn't fit in any because it doesn't fit in any other place. Yeah. That's literally the definition of others. It says it says any time spent on an activity that's not one of the above. Yeah. And so because there's nowhere else where it says anything about a call to order. Um then I would put that one minute on other. So I would go down here to other and I'd go under where it says minute notation. I just put a one there indicating we spent one minute on other. All right. Uh go to the next item. What's the next item for that meeting? Welcome. Pledge of allegiance. Welcome. Pledge of Allegiance. And how much time was spent on that? One minute. And how would you code that? Other. That sounds like more other. I'm looking here. I
041don't see pledge of allegiance anywhere on here. All right. Got it. Um, so then you'd go down here to other. You go to minute notations and you put one minute there. So now we're up to two minutes for other. Got it. All right. What's the next item on this agenda? Public forum. Public forum. All right. How would you code public forum? The pan. Other depend Hold on. It depends, sir. Why? What you talking about? Pardon me, AJ. Members, please remember we've got folks on watching on live stream. We need to be sure to talk into our mic so they can hear what we're saying. You okay? Yeah. So, it so it certainly depends like just because it says public forum that doesn't automatically tell you where it goes. There there's some things that that depends
042on. That is absolutely correct. Specifically, what does it depend on? If it's two-way. Yeah. So, is this a public forum? Is this two-way conversation? Nope. It doesn't say that it's not public forum for us. It is not. This is This is public forum. That's just one. The community is coming up. They're saying their peace for a minute or two and they're sitting back down. What this isn't is two-way communication. So, there's a section on here that says community engagement, but for it to be community engagement, that assumes that this is a conversation, not just a one-way thing. And so, this isn't suggesting that public forum is bad or you should be remove it. That's that's not the point. But it is pointing out that if what you are wanting to have is authentic community engagement,
043this ain't it. Um, and that the board then would need to make additional time whether in this meeting or most likely uh a separate meeting specifically designed for community engagement. And you all have done that before. You've had sessions that you've specifically hosted to have that two-way conversation with the community, but this right here is not that. And so it wouldn't fit under community engagement. How would you code public forum as it exists on this agenda? Other. Other. Put it down as other. And so now you've got how you spent eight minutes on that. Well, then I'd add eight more minutes. You're up to 10 minutes under other. What questions do you have about this activity before we proceed? So, what there's to do with your shoulder partner is go ahead and code the meeting
044on May 21st and together with the meeting on May 4th. Uh, so identify all the minutes that are spent on those and put them in here and then uh in a few minutes we'll check in with you to see exactly how many minutes was spent where in this particip Good luck. We can just do it this way. Uh, Coach AJ, there's also a May 3rd meeting. Other than uh code May 3rd, that one too. Good. Okay. You got three meetings because this is the monthly time use evaluation. This is not just one meeting. It's all the meetings in a month. Consent agenda voting. I am lost. Okay. Well, your phone if you plug phone can go. You can plug it up. I am totally lost. You're not the only It says and or voting. So
045I think it's just voting. This one? No, that's not it. I think it's this one on any item. [Applause] So are you a part of So is all of this a part of Okay. related to student outcomes. I think this is the one we're supposed to use. And are we are we supposed to have the the OKCPS agenda or Well, I'm looking at our agenda. Elsewhere, I guess you're right. So, I think that's self evaluation. I don't know. Yeah, it says monitors are No, I I would just So, I have a question. I am totally lost. Okay. Um, so we looking at this agenda for May 21st. Are you going to put it on voting or had a short committee meeting. Those are the three meetings add them all up to figure out how the
046time was spent. Oh, okay. Okay, I understand. This is the board of trustees meeting, right? This is the board trustees meeting the workshop. Yeah, the time still counts, right? And then this is but it's not a form of essentially this is all the activity where are we supposed to log yeah I don't like so as you go through each item so minute notations you can just say okay so like three different one right here one right here for the different meetings I would do one comma one comma then add and you're going to go through here and some of these will be like right by voting. So I'm assuming this is monitoring and voting on so here agenda was one minute spent on so I would say I would say it's other there might be
047I mean there's also just not like not great grammar but if so you would put a one in it here consent agenda items. So That's actually close session down here. You don't count it. That would be 26 here. Spent 26 minutes on that. 8 minutes. This is a vote. So that would go under voting. Okay. in here pledge it have another one down there because this meeting you took a meeting for so be one again has 35 close session yes oh this is what you're talking about within closed session so you add one and 24 because these are both in closed session not others but reconvene in open sessions do not go monitor progress [Music] review discussing You're accepting you're not accepting quarterly progress review would be self evaluation 27 there's the board evaluation [Music]
048the board show evaluation where I was on Yes, that so put 27 here [Music] and that would go under improvement continuous improvement board self evaluation affect So the reports on the board I'm going say two was a three close session is this right here that's not applicable to Yeah, we need to add up all the per you can write them all like 481 and then add them all up at the end just to keep track. We actually have to feel like that's other plus three. Okay. Oh no. Oh my gosh. I'm running out of space here. In the top one. Yep. Yeah, I'm going to write them separate since I remember information student outcome for so is that goal monitoring question or goal setting about how does this align goal monitoring reports I would say
049it's the same one right this I don't know if how I'm going to fit all this on the monitor. This is a quarterly progress review. Yep. So, I think it's that one. Wait, which one? May 3rd, May 21st. I think it's because it's a student quarterly progress as opposed to the guard rail, right? I mean, and then that because I think it would say guard rail on there. It might even be put half. It might even be both. That right now. Okay. All right. Okay. Okay. Oh, yeah. You got Is it looking all right? She wrote a 25. I wrote a 25. Where are these? What are those two? Did you actually This one, this last one was the student outcome focus quarterly progress. So, we put that up here. But you're you're on the
050right track. But that really should be the board self. Oh, this one. Yeah. Oh, that's the board quarterly self. Oh, that's the next training we're going to do after this. Okay. So, it actually goes down here. Oh, it does. Okay. I wasn't sure. Like it's other definitely other 35 minutes. Gross. I'm consent agenda would be others or mono. All right, let's take about two more minutes and then we'll uh see what we got. I think I right wrote other. Okay. Oh, no. No. Well, voting is um where is voting? Voting is monitoring. Yeah. What I was thinking. Yeah. Voting is monitoring. Monitor. Number five is 35 minutes. That's under vision goals. 35 minutes. Okay. Now change. Correct me if I'm wrong. that about really I think that cons agenda is monitoring. Okay. Uh wait wait
051wait monitoring and accountability is cons but then you have vision vision and goals uh under in information items goal one it tells you goal one is go one and it's the same they deal with this goal Go one right there. Board committees updates. She said, "Well, depends on what the content of the audit is and if it's related to some funding for the particular goals or if it's just a regular yearly audit or if it's a curriculum. Okay. forward community board time. All right. Uh let's uh see what folks have come up with. Uh so right before we run the actual numbers, uh what are some what are some things that you noticed or what are some things you took away from this activity? So we'll go through the actual numbers in a moment, but
052kind of what things came up for you? What' you learn? Kind of what was interesting. It doesn't make anything less nuanced than in public education always is. So there's always a maybe. No doubt. We will go through some of those. Anybody else? What came up for you as you were going through this activity? We showed a lot of time on other a significant amount of othering. Yeah, you may have noticed that. Uh close session. Uh there's a lot of time spent on close sessions. There's a a fair amount of time spent on close session. Yes. Uh what's worth noting uh if you look at the bottom of the timings evaluation, there is a section for close session. Uh but that actually is when we're counting for are you spending at least half of your time
053on student outcomes. Uh close session is completely uh left out of the calculation. Um largely because close session is normally legal legally required stuff that you all don't really have a say in like you have to do it. Um and so close session is not part of the calculation. So you it's helpful to count it up so you can see how much time you're using and you can decide do we think we need to kind of reel this in a little bit. But for your monthly time use evaluations, it's not calculated at all. Anybody else interesting? Uh, anything interesting jumped out as you were going through? We had an issue with the U math textbook adoption. Math textbook adoption. Yes. We thought, well, our one of our one of our goals is about math and
054and and raising the math scores, but does that have anything to do with the textbook adoption? So, we had to go in a different direction. Yeah. Uh, so one access to that is, and we're going to push all the way back to your original training on this, textbook adoption, input, output, or outcome. Is that at the beginning of the cycle, the middle of the cycle, or the end of the cycle? Beginning. That's at the very beginning. That is an input. Input. That is not a student outcome. That is an input. If we purchase cycles, does that tell us what students know and don't are able to do? If we if we purchase curriculum, does that tell us what students know are able to do? No. No. Uh if we deliver books to the classroom, does
055that tell us what students know we're able to do? If children open up the textbooks, does that tell us what children know are able to do? No. And so there's almost nothing associated with that that actually gets at evidence of whether our children have actually learned. Is it essential or are we saying that it that math textbooks are unimportant? No, of course not. Uh it's absolutely curriculum is you know a key aspect of the improving the quality of instruction that students are experiencing on a day-to-day basis but it's not a measure of what students know are able to do and so it's not a student outcome it's absolutely an adult input u now the question is where did you code it where did you put adoption of can we talk about can we go back
056on the math textbooks though so I totally get that it counts against this and all of those things doesn't count against it's fine I get it it's an input But when you're pushing back on interim goals, so if if there was I I don't know an interim goal for math, but if there was one and somebody said your interim goal says this and I spent all my time googling before I got here and that math textbook does not align. It's not going to help you get to that interim goal. What is that? like I I don't uh so so the the first insight the the way to answer this is how would you code adoption of a math textbook voting? Yes, you would code this as voting. So if you look here under monitoring accountability
057there is a section for voting the board debating and or voting on any item and so immediately we know that time spent adopting that is on voting. Uh but part of the reason that it isn't uh time spent on goal monitoring for example is because as a result of adoption of the textbook you still have no insights into whether or not children have actually learned largely because they haven't even used the textbook not. Now I think I think part of what your question gets at is as I am choosing to vote or not vote on things should I be mindful of what our goals and interim goals are 100%. That is absolutely what you should do. You should be thinking about every time the superintendent says, "Hey, I need y'all to spend the taxpayers money
058on something, you need to be asking yourselves," okay, what evidence do we have that this is aligned back to the community's vision that they told us they wanted us to focus on? That is absolutely a reasonable conversation to bring up. It doesn't change that it's still part of the voting conversation. uh it means that you are now doing the next part of your job which is causing alignment of the community's resources with the community's vision and values and that is absolutely your job as a board. And so it's definitely appropriate on a go forward basis when the superintendent brings something forward for you to ask a question uh what evidence do you have that this is in alignment with helping us either accomplish our goals or honor our guardrails? That is going to be a
059very appropriate question on anything she asks you to vote for going forward. And to be fair, there will be some times when she's like, "This has absolutely nothing to do uh with accomplishing your goals. At some point, you're going to have to buy some light bulbs. At some point, you're going to have to buy some pencils, maybe some apple juice. None of that is meaningfully aligned to any of your goals or guardrails because there's just some things you have to do just to keep the organization open. That's why our coaching is spend only half of your time focused on our children learning because you have a lot of other things that you do in fact have to do. So, this is really trying to take a balanced approach. Your previous approach as a board was
060to spend effectively no time on student outcomes and all your time on adult inputs. What you're shifting to is let's balance that. Let's spend half of our time on our children learning and then the other half of our time on what are all the other things that we need to do to keep the organization running. What else came up for you as you were going through this activity? Anybody else? All right. Well, let's run some numbers right quick. How much how many minutes? And I did it myself. I have one more though. Oh, yeah. On audit. On audit. audit. That's an I mean in theory an outcome of the district's finances, but that was the very last one. It had it was 48 minutes if I remember or something like that. Yes. Uh so in
061May 3rd, the board spent 48 minutes discussing the audit plan. How would you all How did you all code that? Would be other. Why Why did you say other? Um we we vote to approve the audit though I believe I mean you do vote to approve the audit. So the question is why wouldn't you code it as voted? Because it's for discussion only. So is it that it it's coming up this month but it'll be voted on next month or at the next meeting? Yeah. So in this agenda, it explicitly differentiates between uh items that it's that you're working on trying to adopt uh versus uh items that you're taking some type of action on action items. Um and this doesn't in some way indicate that you are adopting it. Uh it indicates that you're
062discussing it. And so because this is just for information is uh is just for discussion. uh the ins what they're insinuating is we did not vote on this and so it probably will come up at a future meeting or it may just not come up at all like this may just be advisory to the auditor and that there isn't actually anything to vote on. Okay, thank you. I I have a question. Yeah. Um, when it comes to the voting on our um, board monthly use time use evaluation, I'm kind of confused as to what it says in the parenthesis because I thought this was voting only if it related to goals and guardrails, not like cuz it says I don't know if there's like a comma missing. Voting on goal guardrail adoption and scheduled monitoring
063reports and evals are counted elsewhere, not here. All other incidents of debating voting are never a form of goal guardrail monitoring. Yes. So, um we'll invite you to uh usually take a vote to either accept or not accept a monitoring report from the superintendent and we would still even though that's technically voting. That's the one time that you'd vote that we'd put that under monitoring rather than under voting. Uh but all other instances of voting fall under voting. That's that is what that is clumsily trying to communicate. Okay. And that training is coming up. Uh we haven't done you haven't done a goal monitoring training yet. That is on your calendar for later. Um any other uh reflections or uh comments? All right. So rather than running through all the numbers on this, which isn't
064actually the point, uh just any uh closing uh reflections before we move on to the next, the the purpose of this was just to start getting your mind thinking about how do we pay attention to how do we invest our time as a board. Uh and that there's a lot of time that we could spend on a whole bunch of things that doesn't actually inform us regarding have our children learned or not. uh and that the nudge that you all have said that you want is to actually try to get more in balance of spending half of our time on are our students actually learning which is why the school system exists to begin with. Um and then the other half of the time on all the other things that we do in fact often
065legally have to attend to um that isn't about student learning. All the light bulbs, the pencils, the pens, the applesauce, and so on and so forth. Uh other questions or reflections on time use before we transition? I have I have another reflection. Um I just felt like there was not much being really used towards any of these things and they all seem pretty important. Um except for other voting and then maybe the goal monitoring. Yeah. So that's an important revelation is that there's a lot of these that you're not using that a lot of the time a board winds up spending a ton of time on voting, a ton of time on other and not much on anything else. So what there is to do is as you're looking at your monthly time use evaluation
066is just to ask yourself, hey, when was the last time that we did some authentic community engagement and do we want to schedule some of that for do we have some of that coming up on our calendar or do we need to add it? When's the last time we actually scheduled time for student and family uh engagement and um is that on our timeline or do we need to put something on there? Uh have we done a board self-evaluation lately? Uh have we done a board-led community training? have we gone out and provided uh information to our community about how they can best be advocates for their students uh in in the school system? And and so when you notice that there's a bunch of blanks there over and over and over, it should just
067spark your thinking of are these things that we need to do to better be in connection with our community and let's go ahead and get something on the calendar to make that happen. Anything else before we transition? Communication and collaboration. So, even though this would be scoring in a board meeting, I just want to clarify that the two-way communication would be maybe the board members coming back in and saying, "Hey, I had a community meeting at X, Y, or Z, and these were the values of my community. This is not engaging with the community with a at a board meeting. So, you probably won't do a lot of two-way community engagement in a business meeting of the board. That's not really what board business meetings are designed for. So, normally you'll do what you all
068already did is you'll schedule entirely separate meetings, but it'll be the board scheduling meetings. And so, what you asked about is individuals. So, Carol goes out um and you know, shows up at her neighborhood association, hear some people talk about the schools. Um is that u two-way community engagement done by the board? And we say, "No, no, that's two-way community engagement done by Carol, but it's not two-way community engagement done by the board." Now, if the board said, "Hey, we want to go out to the different neighborhood associations, okay, and you two are going to go to Carol's neighborhood and you two are going and then you kind of divide up the work and then you all intentionally you have, you know, here's the message we're going out with this month and you know, everybody
0692 by twos go out to different places." Now, that sounds like the board actually doing two-way community uh outreach uh rather than board members. And so, no, if board members are acting on their own, that's great. There's nothing wrong with that. But that's not the same thing as the board. When it's the board, you need to say, "What is the message we've got?" Usually have a script. We just like you did last time. We helped you put together a script. We'd help you put together script next time. So when you're figuring those minutes up at the end of the quarter or month or whenever you figure them up, it's the meeting at Douglas High School was an hour long and the community was there and it was a board-ledd thing. That's the minutes. It's not
070in because this the way this is set up, it kind of looks like you would only count these if it was a a a quorummed business meeting. And I just want to clarify any meeting of the board understood that that's not any meeting of the board, any board authorized meeting that is not privileged. Okay. Um and so that's why you notice this captures committee meetings. It captures board meetings. Uh if you all did uh hosted a public listening session, it' capture that. Um but that's because it's the board meetings that the board um owned, not meetings that belong to somebody else. Okay. Um and not meetings of a board member individually. If you go out and do stuff individually, more power to you. But this is not an evaluation of board members individually. This is
071evaluation of how the board collectively chooses to spend its time. Okay. Thank you, Madam Madam Chair, if I may. AJ, is that board clerk over here? Is that when there's a quorum? If board members, when you say meeting of the board, it doesn't have to even be a quorum. If there's a committee meeting and there's three board members, is that still a meeting that was authorized by the board? Yes, absolutely. And so it still counts. Good good clarification. Yeah. No, that's a really important question to ask. uh any meetings that are you know authorized really hosted by uh you know under the ages of the board as an entity and so if the board says you two are going to host this listening session those two are not a quorum but those two are hosting
072a meeting people are coming to them that is you know a meeting that is hosted by the board uh and I would count that especially if they're using it to listen for the vision of values of the community that sounds like a a great use of time other questions or reflections before we transition So, this is the first of two ways we're going to talk about tonight about how the board would self-evaluate, how the board would really look at what is our performance. Out of curiosity, why would why do you think we coach boards to self-evaluate? And why do you think we coach boards to self-evaluate in public? What is the benefit of self-evaluating? Because we're looking at two different ways that we encourage you to do so. And what's the benefit of the board
073self-evaluating in public for all to kind of see your business essentially? Why why would we coach these things? Well, it holds us accountable to the public who elected us to see us do it publicly and together so we can all learn from each other and the process. This is about accountability. This is about leading by example. Anybody else? Why? What's the benefit of the board self-evaluating the board saying here's how the extent to whether or not our adult behaviors are honoring our word, honoring what we've committed to our community, we would do. Why why would a board do that? Why would you self-evaluate and ask that question? Well, we self-govern ourselves. And so the only way to govern yourself is to evaluate yourself. Yeah. In theory to hold each other accountable. Why do so in
074public? Why why don't you just do so you behind closed doors? It'd be a walking quorum. It'd be a violation of the OP. There there's that part. There's that. And there's that. Even if it was legal, why do you think we'd recommend you do it in public? Even if it was legal for you to do it behind closed doors, why do you think we encourage boards to self-evaluate publicly? Whether so the public knows where we at, where we stand, whether we're failing or we're doing the work that we're supposed to be doing. Yeah. This is about transparency. Everybody likes the transparency word, but then all of a sudden when we talk about self-evaluation, it's like, but I don't want people to know whether what I don't want to be transparent about my own performance, I
075want to be transparent about other people's performance. No, that's not leading by example. Leading by example in this room says not only do we expect this of others, we demonstrate it with ourselves. This is about this is about a standard of integrity of leading by example, honoring our word and doing what we said we're going to do in such a way that people can see that we honored our word and did what we said we're going to do. Um and so the second form of evaluation is the board's quarterly self-evaluation. So that one, the last one we did was month by month. This one is quarter by quarter. So every three months you pull out this document and at the top of it says board quarterly self-evaluation template. So go ahead and pull out that
076document. And essentially what this is is this looks at what are the behaviors of school boards and are we behaving in a manner that is more consistent with what the research literature suggests has some type of relationship with improvements in student outcomes? or are is our behavior less consistent with what the evidence suggests has some relationship with improvements in student outcomes? And so what this is suggesting is every 3 months, once a quarter, the board would take a few moments. The first few times you do it is actually it legitimately takes a while, probably an hour or so. But after you get in the groove of it, this is like a 15 minute self-evaluation. It's actually uh quite quick. I've seen boards get through it in 5 10 minutes uh once you understand the instrument.
077But learning the instrument sometimes takes u once or two once or twice doing it. But essentially the board would go through uh its uh manual and hopefully you all have a copy of this in front of you the uh student outcomes folks governance uh framework document. So you would go to uh the pages 2 through 7 of that instrument and what you do is page by page you'd go through and you'd identify how are we doing relative to each of these domains of our self-evaluation. And so you look at the first one vision and goals and you try to figure out where are we at uh which of these columns describes how far we've gotten in terms of changing our adult behavior as a board. And then whatever that is, you'd write that down. And
078so if you had made it all the way to the right, well, then you'd write down 35. Um, and then you'd, you know, keep moving from there. And so that's the way this self-evaluation works. So what what I want you to do is take a uh take a moment u and again with your shoulder partner just talk through the self-evaluation and just think of the last three months. Just think of the last three months. Uh March, April, May. uh think of the last three months um and try to uh come up with an idea for how do we think we did on each page of the self-evaluation over the last three months and try to write down a score for each one and we'll circulate to answer questions. I have one quick clarifying question. When
079we do this, is it going to be do we come to the meeting quarter like when it when it's on the agenda Monday? We're going to be talking about our quarterly evaluation. Do we all provide this in advance? Yeah. So, so what we typically do is we work with you all so that every member of the board and the superintendent, fill this uh complete the self-ealuation individually, usually about a week or so before the board meeting and then send it back to us and we'll, you know, add it all up together or more likely your board clerk will add it all up together and then be able to uh show you, okay, here's kind of where on average the board is. But let's take a moment and talk through do we think it's here? Do
080we think it's there? And so you'll have already done all the pre-work. That's why when you get into the board meeting, it usually only takes 5, 10, 15 minutes because you've already done it once individually. Now, you're just coming together collectively to reach a consensus on it. Perfect. Thank you. So, take a moment with your shoulder partner, try to identify for each of these vision, goals, values and guardrails, monitoring, accountability, communication, collaboration, unity and trust, continuous improvement. Where do you think we were on that for uh March, April, May? Uh talk with your partner about it and then we'll check in. I got to go to work. Is this just from memory? From memory. We're excited. March, April, May. Yeah. But it's good baseline. So then when we do because we just, you know what
081I mean? Said March, April, May. We just adopted the goals today. impressive. We were kind of cracking each other, but it it actually cost a sense of urgency. We we knew that we had to kind of work in regards of so in theory now if you were to do we'd be at five or what would that be at 10 on July? We will adopted them. Mhm. Well, because you got to get oil on that column. to get the full. We're talking we talked about it that way. We just wish we a couple. Okay. But yeah, but we will be I was going to say there no way we're getting to July one. We got five more meetings in June. I swear. There better be something in there that we voted as today. No, we want
082we want a baseline, don't we? As of today. Oh, we just went with the baseline. We already did it. Remember we were in Fresno. If we did, we're good. We're already there. We got zero. We're good. Fresno and we were like, we're zero. Let's talk about something else. That's right. Let's do it through right now. That's exactly still. Still zero in the beginning. Good for you. Because you don't have interrupts. Yeah, because Wait, why? Because we don't have interums. But it doesn't. So I think with that discussion I think we're technically out of turn. Thank you guys for being here. No problem. Okay. But have we done in collaboration with monitors, but I don't think we've adopted. I'll go with you because we posted the goal. Yeah, because we just adopted the pig. But even
083if the guard rails aren't 100%. We've got most of these. I think the only one we don't have. Oh my gosh. I should have had more caffeine on my way here. See number the second one. The only one that we haven't done. But we have done all of those. I'm sorry. I hope I'm sorry for confusion. I don't think we've done this. Yeah, because we just adopted now. But you don't have superintendent. And I think you're gonna have trouble with the guards. I think is it the the Oh, yes. Yes. This is no interum. I was saying guards. Oh, inner rooms. Um, look at the goals. They have one. Some of them have somewhere there were blanks. Yeah. Oh, yeah. These are blank. So, you can't when you get to the next one, you can't
084say yes. I think the goal. So, we can't say 10 but not 25 because I don't think we've done that. Yeah. For each year. No, that's right. Yeah. So, we don't have this. Okay. So, we can give ourselves 10 here, but over here we have to get zero. Or the guard row. Yeah. Okay. I don't know. I I don't know. Okay. Okay. Monitor. I think we have it. I think we have this. Oh, that's the one she said. We're still at zero. I'm not abandoning you. It looks like I'm abandoning you. I am going go get one of these uh little thank you cards. Okay. That's what she said. So, I'm not I don't want to argue with you. You You're the teacher. You you you you know better. I don't know nothing. I'm still
085learning work sessions. you know, monitoring accountability uh or so he asked he asked like a a two-way question. He asked about if work I'm not doing time now. Okay. He asked whether work zero versus board meetings. So that counts as a board meeting because I think this is still zero. So monitoring is I wish he I wish he wouldn't have lip. No, we haven't done that yet. Whether is would I consider I think you're ready. I think we've grown in this first one though. We got 10. Okay. Communication collab. [Music] Oh Lord have mercy. Official board. We've done that already. I feel like we like I love the community. Session is board work. Business meeting audit committee. I don't think we do. No, we don't. The community engagement you guys did in advance of doing
086So, we're still at a zero, I think, or one. Oh, here. I'm sorry. You might want extra. So, your question I think we're at a one or a zero sessions count. I feel like we're still at a zero on that one, but we're trying to we're trying to trying to unity and trust the goals and guardrails. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You do. It just wasn't in that um your own time use because that was just we're still zero. No, no, no. But but what we're doing right here Oh, this one counts. Absolutely. We're not counting up time for this. We're just checking a box, so to speak. So, let's do I don't think so. No, because I don't think you have adopted. So, you're you're out of the gray. The question is, have you adopted? I
087don't think so either. We adopted the policies. This tonight, you actually voted on the goal. Okay. So that's why we said before, let's count tonight go back three months because we want to do a food and get credit for this. You have garden. I think we spent about 10 minutes. It doesn't matter how much time you spend on it for this purpose. It's interesting. Okay, got it. Then the question was um and they're smart. So that's why wasn't it the first time we saw two of them wanted to know more than one with AJ um superintendent has adopted collaboration but did not vote to adop the issue maybe you're right that these are the inter for the average annual cost your goals are finalize some of the guard rail excellent so we're at a 10
088which I think before we were at a zero That's all right. We can't say that you the interim guard. Got about five more minutes. Got about five more minutes. [Music] I got less strict and you got more strict updatable. You were like, you're like, "No, no." And I was like, "Wait, are you sure?" They did. Playing devil's advocate with you, Dana. I don't either. And then you started to change my mind. See, I was like, are you sure you don't have No, but I think you're right. Eventually, you're going to have I think that one that we did earlier, the there was like one that we put as a voting. It's actually up here like one minute. You're going to have an annual I just moved it. If you're on track to hitting that I
089burned myself earlier today. I hate it. Yeah, there's going to be OSTP scores that talking about this one kind of not yet. That's the superintendent. talking. It says here the superintendent has provided interim goals for each year. You haven't gotten where does she need to be in 2025 2027 to know you all have confidence that she's on the way to hitting she still has to provide burning hand off like yes you board have your goals this right you start again but you're not going to ask you're not for five years right years every year after this OS heart hospital. You're going to say, "How do you do?" She's going to tell you in order to be on track to 40 in 5 years have to be at Yes. seven years. We're doing um we did
090until she gives you that stuff that was a bunch of interim goal ending points. She will because that's going to be part of the fiveyear monitoring calendar. Yeah. She's going to put on you. One lady that used to work there today. You're going to eat me a lot. Know she's on track in addition to the inter three times a year or whatever these are, but you're also going to get the test scores from the state once a year. I'm a question asker. Okay. People don't like my questions, but I'm question and I have a I have a question about this this specifically what you just described. Yeah. Is all are I'm going to ask are all things equal. If we have a superintendent, not this one, I'm talking about the state superintendent that changes the
091changes the standards again, right? How do you how to how you'd have to reverse? Okay. But what won't change, and this might be helpful. I mean, if he changes this test, is that what you're saying? Yeah. I mean, how do you if he's changing the standards to make sure his outcomes look good, but it's not But we're really not coming out. I I'm just Well, it'll be two things. One, if he kept the test the same and didn't change and just changed his own cut score, you could adjust this percentage based on what you think the cut score should be. So if he's not fiddling with the instrument, he's just fiddling with what they consider a passing, you could rely on your education. One more minute. One more minute. True to where we were to
092be based on this and you would change this language to say must achieve X score. Um okay. Does that make sense? It makes sense, right? Or the other thing that that's more have to happen than not in Oklahoma. I know. So I'm just while on flux. But really, you would see you would ask the superintendent that's just proficient. Here's a baseline. We're out of drought for the first time. How many years? Like is there a way for us to maintain? We're not in drought. pay attention to what he says is beneficial. But keep this and if there isn't because he's right now they say then you want to you might say well then do we have to throw this metric out completely which is a shame because I mean I hate it. All right. Uh,
093let's check back in. These basically an outside entity, they're not going to change. So, you might just adopt those somehow or figure out there's some other way. I'm just curious. Yes. Does that help, though? Yeah. All right. So, as you were going through this board self-evaluation, uh, what did you notice or what jumped out at you? You'll be the first to share. What's something that, uh, came up for you as you were going through this activity? Well, we're better than zero. Uh, you're better than zero. There's and really close there. Some of them are just like passing a policy like we're really close on probably being up to 30 is right. Yeah. I suspect you all will go from, you know, fairly low to you jump up just because you've done so much work over
094the past 6 months and now all of that effort is finally uh bearing fruit. It's kind of like gardening like you spend a lot of time, you know, putting stuff in the soil and watering it and weeding it before the fruit actually shows up. But we are definitely approaching that season where fruit starts to emerge and you start to see uh evidence of the hard work over the last 6 months. What else came up for you as you're going through this activity? It was hard to make it through each one of the items. Yeah. We would see one and just think, "Oh, yay." And then we get to the next one and go, "Oh, nope. Got to give it a zero." because we didn't we didn't complete every item in the list in the column.
095Yeah. The reality is you all are trying to create a really solid foundation for your organization. Um and that requires precision. Like this this is not designed uh to be easy for you. It's designed to be specific enough that you can d provide the leadership to this organization. Um but there's details you have to build into that. There's effort that you have to put in. Um, I think of it like a recipe. Uh, I'm a horrible baker. Um, and so if I'm trying to bake, I might look at and be like, you know what? I don't really want to deal with all of these ingredients. I just want to make a cake. Let me just put some flour in this pan and put this pan in the oven and, you know, set it to 350
096for about 40 minutes. And when I pull it out, I I want cake. When I pull that pan out, am I going to have cake? No. No. What am I going to have? Flour. Burnt. Hot burnt flour. I'm going to have some hot flour. That's what I'm going to have. But what I'm not going to have is cake because I didn't put all the ingredients in. And this is a scenario that you find yourselves with is there. We want to bake a cake. We we want to, you know, create something that is really going to be a a strong foundation for organization. Uh but that requires you actually using all the ingredients necessary. U unless what you're comfortable with is hot flour. And then you don't you only have to use one ingredient. But but
097don't come back later and be mad that it ain't cake. And so what what there is to do then is just figure out, okay, we have done most of these steps, but there's a few things we're missing out. The missing of which may be making it harder for our staff to serve children. And so let's finish doing our pieces. Let's actually bake this cake all the way. So that way we're setting these folks up for success. Uh but yeah, so that means that there are a lot of ingredients. Uh you actually have to use all the ingredients. And when you don't, that's fine. But just don't be surprised when you don't have cake. That's all. Uh what else came up for you as you're going through this? Uh to add to your cake thing. Oh
098yeah. Uh yeah. So a couple observations from us over here. So I noticed I was actually really strict at the beginning and then Dana was not. But then we kind of flipped and I'm like are you sure? Are you sure? This is this is good partner work. This is good partner. We can't do the 10. Okay. Um and the other thing is um I did see that in one of them I mean we scored a zero but because we also have the ingredient of our guardrails also some of them are not finished completely so they're missing information so we're kind of all dependent on our teams here as well um within OKCPS. Yeah. One one thing worth noticing is it is really hard for the not only is it hard for the staff to be
099effective without an effective board. It's hard for the board to be effective without effective staff. Absolutely. Inter interdependency. There is significant interdependency. Yeah. Uh who else? Anything that came up for you as you were going through this activity of really the board trying to self- evvaluate? any other questions that came up or things that came up that you noticed as you're going through this activity? Anyone else before we transition? I've got something more. Yeah. Um yeah, and I know sometimes we need to just establish these um evaluation uh quarterly, monthly, whatever they they are. Um and we haven't established that either. So I guess would that also be a policy that we put in place? Well, it doesn't have to be, but it certainly can be. So any of the work that you all are
100doing, you all get to make the decision how much of this do we want to just firmly bake into policy and we generally encourage it. Um but with or without that uh the next step after adoption of your goals and guardrails is to then start receiving monitoring reports from your superintendent. That is another training that uh that we'll do with you all uh to get you to prep prepared up for that. We just haven't done that training yet. But I think too to Jessica's point, if I'm not mistaken, um shortly we're going to be working on a monitoring calendar. So we'll have be able to see like five years out. I mean it's going to become super predictable so that we know this meeting every quarter. This is you know with Craig's help will you
101know keep us accountable if I'm not mistaken. that comes pretty yeah as soon as the interim goals and interim guardrails are complete uh then the staff will be able to put together a rough draft um monitoring calendar for you that says month by month for the next uh 60 months exactly which slice of our goals will we be looking at each month so that it'll be completely transparent. It'll be completely public. No, you'll you won't be playing hide the ball like you'll know every single month for the next 60 months. half of this meeting is, you know, probably going to be spent talking about this particular slice of student performance. Um, but you can't really uh you can't adopt that until you have a rough draft from your staff and they can't create a rough
102draft until uh the interim goals and interim guard rails are complete. Uh, but you're fairly close on both of those steps. I I think I heard the superintendent staff talking and you're maybe a month out from that. Yeah. So, we'll keep us on track. And you can also add to that five-year monitoring calendar the quarterly self-evaluation. So that becomes part of your cadence of accountability too for holding yourselves accountable and that that can be charted out for five years. The other thing I wanted to say is that there's another thing happening with this that's important for you all to acknowledge because it's powerful. And one of the things uh you know there's there's a lot of different layers to all of this framework. And by quarterly evaluating yourselves in public and even having that give
103and take about you're a hard grader, you're an easy grader. and um demonstrating to the whole community that you're able to have that conversation and that you know evaluation is part of life and part of improving student outcomes, but it's you can do it in a way that's really constructive. you can create the safe psychological space and you're saying we're not just holding the superintendent accountable, we're holding ourselves accountable and really, you know, leaning into that and letting the whole community know that the board's doing this is really powerful. Other questions or reflections before we transition? Yes, sir. Is there ever a time that we just talk about these things outside of board? I mean, I not doing the evaluation behind close. I mean, that's not what I'm saying. Doing evaluation, but I find it
104sometimes a little difficult to figure out, okay, when are we how do we get together to have a conversation about this? uh or making sure that if we're going through a checklist that you know that we're not I mean if you went through this on on up there on the day we'd be that could could possibly be there all night trying to evaluate oursel but I'm saying you're absolutely correct I I'm I'm trying to figure out when do when does the board when do board members talk about this? Yeah. So in terms of preparation uh this can happen in a couple of ways. First, the way that uh we've described uh is that we will generally before self-evaluation, we'll ask board members to complete it individually. Um so that you aren't showing up cold, that
105you've already done the work and that like you've read through it, you've had a chance to ask questions, you could reach out to us. Um and so there's there is support for one-on-one. Um in addition to that um some boards have asked us, hey could we have a session where me and one other board member get together with the coach and go through this together. So it's not just me doing it solo. I have at least one of my other colleagues to talk to. Um and um in most states uh as here that's legal. There actually a few states where that would not be legal. U but in most states like here that that would be legal to do. um where you get uh and you could do that with one other colleague or two
106other colleagues. The moment you go beyond that to be legal here, uh it would have to be a publicly called meeting. Um and so that's why there is some amount of limitation to it. And so the board as a whole could call a meeting and say, "Hey, let's just come together and talk through our performance u in in advance." And you you all could certainly do that, but that would be required if you want to speak to the full board. Otherwise, it'd be an open meetings violation. But if you wanted to do it solo or if you want to do it with like one other colleague or something like that, uh absolutely you could do that and we'd be excited to support you in that. May also add as once we get the calendar in
107place, the backwards design would be if we know there's something that's going to be reported out at a particular board meeting, it would be advantageous to us to have a work session before over that topic and we could live stream it. public could see, but that would allow us to go deeper and ask those questions. And then when we're um in a board meeting, we could actually conduct yes, a meeting. But I would uh highly recommend us considering work sessions that follow or come prior to Yes, sir. Uh yes. And in that context, you could do it as you just you it would have to be a publicly noticed meeting. That's all. Uh, other questions or reflections before we transition. So, what we've done is we've looked at two different ways that a board might
108self-evaluate what it how it might look at its performance on a month-to-month basis. Are we investing our time the way we say that we want? Um, and this is important because if you haven't seen it, uh, board members, I just saw something brand new go up on the wall right behind your superintendent there. Uh, madam superintendent, exact, what is that? in regards of cascading of information and um looking through the reference points we have when we do this work. Everyone has a role and responsibility. Please note this is aspirational in regard to where we'll be within five years. But just as the board hopes and pray to get to the 50% our principles have a role in a time frame and our teachers that's the only way this work works if you have a cascade.
109Please note this is um aspirational but we need to actually check and see where we are currently in order for us um to do the work. won't work guys if you all are the only ones monitoring your time. U speaking with Galloway even earlier on today we talked about some other meetings we've been in in the importance of scheduling and time if you don't plan for it. Yep. It doesn't happen. And so this is us being intentional on the direction we're going. Yeah. If you haven't had a chance to, board members, you might want, you know, check that out before you head out. Maybe even take a selfie next to it. I don't know what you want to do. Uh, but but what that represents is that the board has said it is really important
110that we spend more time that's directly focused on student outcomes. What what are the behaviors that we can engage in a board that is is most focused on are our children learning and how are we creating conditions for that? And as a direct consequence of the board's leadership in this area of the board saying we want to be more intentional about our use of time, the superintendent has said, "Actually, I guess that means I also need to be more intentional in my use of time." But then her cabinet said, "Well, hold up. Well, we've got to be more intentional in our use of time." And then the principal is like, "Well, we definitely want to spend more time supporting instruction." And the teacher like, "Hey, I would much rather spend more of my time actually
111supporting my students than doing all these other things." And so there is this cascading desire of folks to be more powerful in their service to children. That is a direct consequence of the leadership of this board. And the more that you follow through on your desire and have it made real in practice, the more you create a culture where that will also be likely be the case with your superintendent and the cabinet and uh principles and teachers. Uh but definitely take a look at that. is it's suggesting like I've got to spend more of my time on the thing that I say matters most in terms of improving student outcomes. That's that is what that table describes and and it is directly born of the commitment that this board has made. That's self-evaluation and branches
112us into the last piece of our conversation which is superintendent evaluation. Uh once the board has said this is the community's vision that we've adopted as a set of goals and these are community's values we've adopted uh as a set of guardrails. Uh guess what you should probably evaluate your superintendent on same goals and guard rail. Yeah. Is she actually leading the institution such that it is accomplishing the community's vision while honoring the community's values? That is absolutely what you would want to evaluate her on. Why? how student outcomes change because this is how student outcomes change. This is how we begin to drive adult behavior change. Why if if you say that this represents the community's vision and values, why would you want to evaluate her based on her adherence to the community's vision
113and values? Why why is that the basis of evaluation? So we know whether she's committed not just to us but mainly the the the students and a student outcome. Yeah, this is trust but verify. We need we need receipts to know if she's actually committed and focused on the thing that that as a board we told her to focus on. Like as a board, you are the final voice of the community in this organization. And she has to she owes allegiance to your understanding the community's vision and values. And so monitoring her in alignment with that is your way of identifying is she actually focusing on the things that our community have told us is organization we need to be focused on. Any other reflections? Why would you evaluate your superintendent based on goals and
114guardrails? Any other reflections? Yeah. Uh we need to show that uh we are all in alignment with the same goals and guardrails. So, we all believe in the goals and guardrails and um that we all understand them and are willing to try to do something about it. Yeah. Well, and she's the leader of the district and is, you know, it's her job to put the systems in place to meet the goals. And if the systems aren't put in place to support the student outcomes, then we won't be successful. All right. So that I guess that explains why you might evaluate her on the goals and guardrails. But um but surely there'll be some other things that come up we want to evaluate her on. So why not evaluate her on those things as well? Can
115you can like maybe you know we find out that you know none of the light bulbs have ever been replaced in any of the elementary schools. And so you know we clearly want light bulbs in the elementary school so kids can see there's a safety issue but then it's hard for them to learn if it's not there. So why shouldn't we also then evaluate her based on whether or not she gets the light bulbs in the elementary schools? That's not our student outcome. That's not a student outcome. And that's why we're asking her to prove that she can do. What's the harm of evaluating on stuff that's not goals and guardrails? I mean there's other stuff that we there's other important stuff too. So what what would be the harm? Time. Well, those are inputs,
116not outcomes. All right. What what's the harm of why would it be harmful to evaluate the superintendent on input instead outcomes? I mean those are important things too, aren't they? We exist to Is that her job though? I mean that's not what we have hired her to do. We've hired her to teach our children and raise the scores and student outcomes. And there are other people that can take care of the light bulbs and she can evaluate those people on how well they supply the light bulbs. Right. Amen. Never. Yeah. Um I've got something that might be a little bit sobering. I apologize, but um I think it goes back on our word and the type of board uh we've decided to commit to be. Um, recently somebody told me that the story of OKCPS
117is broken promises and um, and it hit kind of hard u, not going to lie. Um but I but I am pretty new and so um I think it goes back on your your word is your worth and if we said we're going to become a student outcome focused governance group and board I mean we should do that and we're spending a lot of money doing it and time. What happens in the boardroom echoes in the classroom. When you have a board that refuses to honor its word, it creates a culture where not honoring your word is normative and accepted. What's the classroom like where the teacher doesn't honor her word? What's that classroom like? Chaotic. Chaotic. Absolutely chaotic. That's not a classroom you would want for your own children. It's certainly not the classroom
118you want for any of the children throughout the school system. But that is in exactly what you inspire when you send the cultural message that you can say one thing in this district and do another. And that is completely acceptable because that's what the board does. Like you have given your word and your word once given is not easily abandoned. Not without significant consequence for the students that you serve because this is a culture setting body. Like what happens in the boardroom echoes in the classroom. The behavior of the board here allows people to know what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior in in their schools. Uh how the board treats people in this room tells folks what's accept how is acceptable to treat folks. I had another board they kind of gone off the deep
119end so we will you know change the name to protect the guilty. Uh you know but they found themselves in a boardroom being verbally abusive to parents consistently. This just became a norm. They cuss a parent out in a heartbeat in a boardroom. How do you think principles and teachers started treating parents because they saw well this is appropriate behavior in the boardroom. Clearly this is appropriate behavior in the classroom. This is a culture setting body. What you do here signals to the rest of your adults what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior. You have given your word to be focused on are our children actually learning? You don't have to honor your word. It is not legally required for you to conduct yourselves with integrity. You do not have to do that. There is no
120law that says if you, you know, lie to the people on a regular basis that that's that's a that's a replaceable offense. Like, so you do not have to honor your word. But there are consequences when you choose not to. And one of the lead consequences is you create a school system where that is acceptable behavior among other adults as well. That's absolutely a critical function of why the board might behave the way it does. Not because it's easy, not because it's comfortable, but because it's necessary for creating the type of school system we want for our students. Yeah. Um I have a question related to that. And so how do we make sure that this is not just a phase for OKCPS? This is the this is the hard part. Um I heard earlier
121today and I think I shed a tear of sadness when I heard it. Is it accurate? 24 superintendents in 20 years. It was 22 and 20 years in 2016. 22 and 20 years. Since that time in nine years, we've had one interim one was here for about a month and then three with Dr. So, so basically three full-time. What you want to be clear is it is really hard to make progress um if you're kind of starting and stopping starting and stopping with significant changes in leadership. That is really really hard to do. Um and so the message isn't uh never replace a superintendent or uh you know chain them to their desk so they can't retire. U like these aren't the message. We don't have to worry about Yeah. Yeah. She ain't going nowhere.
122Uh the the message is however that there is an organizational cost every time you go through significant leadership change which I think is your point and that's also frankly true among the board. Only the community and the community alone gets to decide who sits at this board table. And so there's not a whole lot that you get to do uh there's not a whole lot you know any of you get to do individually to say here's who's going to be here. The community will make that call. It's their call to make. But those of you who sit here do get to make a decision about the superintendency. And every time you change the superintendent, uh, there is some amount of energy loss, some amount of reset. Um, and so the the message isn't don't replace
123the superintendent if you have to. If you have to, you have to, but don't do so without being cognizant of the fact that there is a significant cost to organizational alignment every time we do so. And so there, this should not be something done on a whim. It should be something that we've thought about. It's like yes, if we do this, we know definitively it will cause this much harm to the organization. Is the benefit of making this decision outweigh the cost of the decision? And if it is, then the board would say, "Yeah, that's the decision we make." And if it's not, then you'd find some other way to address whatever your concern is. But there is in fact a cost to the organizational alignment of consistent changes in uh in in leadership. And
124while you can't really mitigate that at the board level because that's the community's call, the board can mitigate that at the senior staff level. Uh because that's the board's call. Other reflections on superintendent evaluation before we slightly transition here. And so there's a document. It says conveniently sample superintendent evaluation at the top of it. It looks like this. JJ, you should have a copy. So this um is actually taken from another district. All the uh information has obviously been anonymized so that it's just a sample document. Uh but this is actually literally taken from uh one of our other districts that we support. Um and so all the numbers were real as of that time. What it's describing is when it's time for the board to evaluate the superintendent, essentially what that means is the
125board needs to pull out the data and figure out kind of what is what is real uh as it relates to accomplishment of the goals and honoring of the guardrails. And so this is one way that might look. I've seen a bunch of different districts kind of put it in spreadsheets in different ways, but it's fundamentally all the same thing. Is what we're looking at is did we make the progress we intended toward the goals? There's our target and did we actually meet it or not? And then did we make the progress we intended toward our interim goals? There's a target and then did we meet it or not? So for goal number one, did they meet the target? For goal number one, did they meet the target? So it says SY21 target, which is
126what and then there's the actual. So for the So goal number one, did they hit the target? No. No, they did not hit the target for the goal. So then if that's here's how the evaluation system works. The first thing you check is did they hit the did the superintendent hit the target for the goal. Um and then if they didn't then you check the interims and then the question you ask is did they hit at least two out of the three interim goals? Did they hit target for at least two of the three interim uh did did the superintendent doctor? Yes. Yeah. Got two out of three. And so in that instance we would say okay got it. and the superintendent uh met expectation for goal one uh not by meeting the goal but
127by meeting two out of the three interim goals and so we'd say okay got it. So for goal number one the superintendent has met expectation uh she got there through the interim goals rather through the goal but as a board we say whichever way you got there you got there. So then as a board you go to goal number two. So, did the superintendent uh meet the target for goal number two? Does the superintendent meet the target for goal number two? I'm talking about just for the not on the goal. Not on the goal. Not on the goal. Uh but did she get there through getting twothirds of the interims? Yes. Yeah. Uh how about goal number three? What happened? No. So close. very close. Uh since she's close, do we is our coaching that
128we should round up? No, absolutely not. Uh the data is the data. We do not invite you to engage in pretending that the goal was met if it actually wasn't. Like the data is the data. It's either they hit the data or they didn't hit the data. And for goal number three, she didn't hit the goal. Okay. Did she at least get two-thirds of the interim goals? No. No. So close. And so he'd say the superintendent did not meet expectation for goal number three because she both missed the goal and missed out on hitting twothirds of the interim goal. Uh senior staff should be paying a lot of attention to how this math works out cuz if I'm a clever superintendent, I'm having some real pointed conversation with y'all after this tomorrow. AJ point of
129clarity. Yeah. on interim goals. Hypothetically, if an interim goal is set for a three-year time period, yeah, and it is year one of the monitoring cycle, um, high likelihood that they have not met the goal on a three-year cycle, is there a process there on an annual basis where the board is evaluating based on progress towards an interim guard rail, for example, if they haven't reached the actual goal language or the the smart goal metric that it's leading to. Got it. Uh so uh this is an important question. It was rather technical question and fortunately we have a technical answer. Uh Phil, please join me on uh page two of the So we'll go straight to the board self-evaluation to answer this question. Glad we have a coach. Uh, and somebody read the second descriptor
130under meeting focus. Where is he at? I don't know where. Somebody read the on page two. Somebody read the second descriptor under meeting focus. In addition to trying to figure out where we're at. Sorry. Do you want to read it? Yep. On page two. Okay. In addition to the goal ending points, the board has adopted annual targets goal ending points for each year leading up to the ending dates. The superintendent has provided interim goal ending points for each year leading up to the ending date. Yeah. So essentially what it's suggesting is that the board is saying we are going to identify and usually it's because the superintendent has provided them a draft. what type of progress we think we should make year-over-year. And the superintendent is going to identify for the interims what type of
131progress we feel like we should make year-over-year. And that is the basis of evaluation. And so essentially as a superintendent, you are saying you're calling your shot like you're stepping up, you know, to the plate and you're calling your shot and saying here's where we're going to get to. And then over the next year and then as a staff, your job is to put in the work to make sure that's where you get and then that is part of the superintendent's evaluation. So, yep, you would absolutely evaluate the superintendent uh on that, you know, with the next evaluation after uh 12 months after those were adopted. You absolutely would. Even though it's a three-year timeline, you'd still actually look at what is that next annual target. Thank you, man. These people showing up with technical
132questions tonight. I love it. Uh other questions or reflections about the superintendent evaluation? We went through the goal side. Any other questions or reflections on the goal side? The guardrail side is basically the same except for there aren't metrics for the guardrails. And so the only way to know if the superintendent honored the community's value is did she hit at least two out of the three of the interim guard rails? And so for guardrail number one, uh did the superintendent hit at least two out of the three? No. No, she did not. Uh came close. Came really close, but no, she did not. uh for guardrail number two, did she get at least two of the three interim guardrails? Mhm. Yes. Yeah. Uh managed to get there not on the first one, but on the
133second and third one. And then on guardrail number three, did the superintendent get there with at least two of the three? Yes. And so at the end of all of that, uh on this eval sample evaluation, uh the superintendent uh met expectation on two of the three goals and on two of the three guard rails. And then the board would have to decide, do we consider that satisfactory? Do we consider it not satisfactory? Do we consider it partially satisfactory? That and that is a discernment of the board. The board you'll have to decide kind of what does it mean that she got uh four out of uh two out of three goals and two out of three guard rails. Um and so as part of your annual evaluation when you go back into the close
134session, that's the conversation you have. Hey look, uh she got there on two out of three goals. Uh do we think that that's satis you do we feel like that's satisfactory? you know, she got there on two out of three guardrails, you know, or you do we feel like it's not? Um, uh, what we say is the moment the superintendent has accomplished at least 75% of the indicators, that is automatic satisfactory. That is what we recommend to you. Superintendent hits 75%, we'd say that's automatic satisfactory. Um but the boards certainly uh can choose not to stick to that default could choose a different threshold for satisfactory u or uh could even weight the goals and guardrails. I know one district uh the goals are weighted 60% the guardrails are weighted 40%. And so getting uh
135three goals um and only two of the guardrails still really really high score because of how they're how they're weighted. And so all of those are decisions that the board can make. you have full autonomy as a governing body uh to decide what does the data mean once you have it. What's not in question is should you have the data? You absolutely should have it and use it for your decision-m. Yeah. What other questions do you have? We, as I mentioned, we're just doing a super highle overview of board self-evaluation and superintendent evaluation. We'll do deeper dives as we get closer to the actual things. Questions about superintendent evaluation? Questions or comments about superintendent evaluation before we transition? Yeah. Um, okay. Okay. So, in this discussion, we've we've talked about turnover of superintendent. Um, when
136would it be appropriate to talk about I mean, maybe even grace or a chance for our own superintendent to grow? Um, cuz I I mean, what I'm thinking about is like what if like maybe she or he got really really close on almost everything. Um, is there an appropriate time or for for discussion on that? Yeah. And so when the annual evaluation comes along, what's not in question is will you have the facts? You will have the facts. But then you all will go into a close session usually with your attorney or something like that. Um, and usually without your superintendent. Uh, and you'll just have a conversation about what do we think these facts mean? Do these mean that she's making the progress uh that we intend to make? Uh, that we need to
137stay the course. doesn't mean that, you know, she's promised a good game, but there there's there's no there there. You know what? What does it mean? That is a decision for the board to make. What does the data mean? What we're suggesting to you is that if she hits three quarters of her indicators, we say that automatically means satisfactory. But the ultimate decision of what does that mean? That falls to y'all to make that you all will go back into close session and you will render an evaluation based on the data. Um but ultimately it is a judgment call of the board. What does the data mean? We offer you guidance on what we think it should mean. But ultimately this you are the ones who elected. It is your call. And so whether there's
138grace or not grace that's that's a yaw thing. Other questions about superintendent evaluation before we transition. One other thing to keep in mind is bear in mind that all of this data is also public record because it's been presented incrementally throughout the year. So the whole community knows this too in terms of you know whether the superintendent had 75% or whether she missed them all. And so part and parcel of this is the transparency piece is really important. Other questions of reflections? Yeah. And I think my question kind of stem for the from the fact that this is a lot for one person. Um and I understand it's not just one person, it's a whole organization. But um I mean and it is a domino effect like you've kind of mentioned earlier. I mean what
139we do directly impacts her job is really really really hard. That is absolutely accurate. Her job is really really really hard. Your job is really hard Dr. Pulk. I have a great team. There we go. uh and that makes all the difference. Uh you gave us 90 minutes to go through two examples of board evaluation and one example of superintendent evaluation. That 90 minutes is eclipsed. Uh what I'll say in conclusion is the same thing I said at the outset. Um this is really important work. This is how you create the conditions for improvements in student outcomes. This is how you create organizational alignment. But there's a lot here. Um and so you are not alone in this journey board members. uh as you ever want to reach out for support, if you want to
140go over anything one-on-one, that's what we are here for. Use us as much as you want. Like this is the all you can eat, you know, game plan that you're on. So, you might as well, you know, call us up whenever you need to call us up. Use us whenever you need to use us. That is what we are here for. As much as you need support, uh we are eager uh we are eager to uh support you in supporting your students. Uh Madam Chair, back to you. Okay. Thank you. It's great information to have and a great overview just to get our minds thinking forward as to where we're going now because we've been so dug into getting us off the zero on the evaluation piece. So, now that we're moving forward, I have
141some notes here of things we need to move through to help us uh get a little further along. But, I really appreciate your time. Thank you for being here. Um, and if nobody else has anything, we will make a motion to adjourn. I'll make a motion to adjurnn unless somebody wants to say something. Okay. Motion to adjurnn. Is there a second? Second. Okay. That was uh Mr. Lacona. Yes. Call for the vote. All in favor say I. I. Any oppose say nay. Hearing none. The motion carries. The board is adjourned.