001Heat up here. Heat. Heat. Hey. Hey. Hey. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. N. Heat. Heat. Heat. Hey, Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat up Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat up here. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat up here. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat up here. Heat. Heat. Heat up here. Heat. Hey, Heat. Hey, heat. Hey, heat. Heat. Oh, hey. Yeah. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Hey, heat. Hey, heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Hey, hey, hey. Woo! Heat. Heat. Hey, heat. Hey, heat. dra hey easy. Heat. Heat. N. Heat. Heat. N. Heat. Heat. Heat. N. Heat. Heat. Heat. Wonder. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. N. Heat. Heat. Good morning everyone and welcome to the Orange County School Board's work session scheduled
002for today, Tuesday, April 7th, 2026, for the purpose of discussing policy JIC, code of student conduct. Public will not have an opportunity to participate in this morning's work session to provide public comment. Because this is not a regularly scheduled schoolboard meeting, no action will be taken and there will be no open public comment period during which the public would normally be able to address the board on relevant topics. Thank you so much for joining us this morning. As a reminder, board members will not be engaging in outside electronic or digital communication during the meeting so that we can focus our full attention on the matters before us. To my fellow board members and district staff, when speaking, please speak directly into your microphone. Make sure it is turned on so that our YouTube and Orange
003TV viewers can hear you clearly. And now we will rise for a moment of silence and then I invite you to join us in the pledge of allegiance. >> And now for the pledgece to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> I'm going to count the number of meetings I have left. See if I have a chance of getting everybody on board. We'll see. All right, Dr. Vasquez, you're recognized. Uh thank you, Madam Chair. Uh this morning, uh we have our uh team that is going to be presenting uh our proposed revisions for the code of conduct. Um I do want to uh interject uh a comment related to dress code. As you know,
004I have been uh attending middle school town halls uh and dress code has been a topic uh on many of those uh conversations. Uh I've also spoken with staff related to the comments uh board members have had uh about changes to the dress code. Uh we have made minimal changes. By that I mean many. But I do think that um there's one particular item or change that we've made that I think is going to impact um a lot of our schools and bring more consistency. And while my initial uh thoughts around the dress code um was much more drastic than what you are seeing today uh in speaking with staff um some of those changes really would create problems because of what the interpretation of those changes could elicit. And so I'm curious once you
005see the ch the proposed changes any conversations you have on any of it. But I do know that the dress code is something that um has been a topic of conversation uh at the middle schools we visited. So with that, I will turn it over to Dimmitiki. Oh um go before doing so. Um >> Superintendent, when you uh started your comments, I thought that perhaps since we're talking about dress codes that you were going to explain why you and I and several of the board members, I think most of us are wearing denim. um which is not something that the public would generally see. And since it's somewhat ironic that we are talking dress code, I thought I would take just a brief moment for anybody who might be watching us live or at some
006point in the future. So um as we speak, this is National Denim Day. And National Denim Day is uh set aside as a day of awareness of um discrimination against women. Uh, and I won't go into the long detail of it, but it goes back to a a case um somewhere in Europe where a judge decided that a woman who had been uh sexually assaulted was found guilty or at least the uh perpetrator was found in in innocent because the woman was wearing jeans. So, in honor of um in and in in I guess solidarity with that woman and um in recognizing that women should be able to wear what they want. You see us, several of us, actually most of us, you can't see that they're wearing jean pants or jean jackets. And it
007seems appropo that we are talking about dress code right now. So, with that, you're now recognized. Thank you. Thank you. >> Can you hear me? >> You know, um it's not just a matter of having turned on these mics. You just about have to have you have to just about >> Okay. Is that >> touching them so much better? Thank you. >> No problem. Thank you. So, to begin with introductions at the end of the table, we have our staff attorney over discipline, Alivia Haynes. Excuse me. We have our director of discipline, Dicki Joiner. and my name is Delila Hernandez and I am an area administrator. Good morning, Superintendent Vasquez, Chair Jacobs, and members of the school board. We are here to present our proposed revisions for the 2026 2027 code of student conduct. To
008inform these revisions, we conducted targeted surveys, interviews, and met with students, teachers, parents, the superintendent, cabinet, and schoolboard members to gather input and identify needs and strengths. More than 60% of teachers indicated that school administration effectively communicates discipline procedures to both teachers and students. Survey results revealed slightly more than half of respondents were parents of elementary students with a balanced representation of middle and high school families. Engagement is strong. More than 60% reported knowing where to access the code of conduct and having reviewed it with their children. feedback in terms of areas for improvement, greater consistency across schools with the implementation of discipline procedures, greater clarity regarding dress code procedures, and parental awareness regarding safe harbor. Subject to the board's questions and feedback, we are prepared to present our recommended revisions for the 202627 school
009year. All right, we're going to start on page one. We're going to update the school year from 26 27. Um, we've added the new vice chair um board me board member Salamanca. We're going to move the vision, mission, and objectives to the um cover page. And also on the cover page, we're going to have graphics. We can go to page three. On page three, um we've updated the first bullet. Students have the right to choose to participate in an OCPS discipline investigation. Parent guardians can give the school administration a written note before an incident occurs if they do not want their child to be part of the discipline investigation. For for students in grades K through two stu school administration will make every attempt to notify parent guardians prior to the student participating in any
010disciplinary investigation. I'm sorry. Also on page three under safe harbor, we remove firearms and weapons because it's any object um a a student can um declare safe harbor for. on page nine under student discipline investigations. Um again, we've added um parents and guardians can give the school administrator a written note before an incident occurs. If they do not want their child to be part of a discipline investigation for students grades K through two, school administrator will make every attempt to notify parent guardians prior to the dis prior to the student participating in any discipline investigation. All right. If you go to page 10, page 10 starts our level one offenses. Under level one a cheating, we've added um information regarding AI. Um, this includes the unauthorized use or attempt the use of artificial intelligence, AI
011systems, or other resources to generate content as one solely original work while failing to properly site, disclose, or specify the extent of the resources used. page 14. On page 14, we're going to remove um threats intimidation as a level two. We're going to replace it with um 2A, which is going to be acts of aggression, which is on page 16. We're adding the new offense, acts of aggression. This is going to be an expression of harm towards another person without the intent and capability to carry out the harm. We're adding this um because sometimes students um express intent to harm somebody without falling up. A lot of middle school, a lot of elementary kids may have outbursts, emotional outbursts because they're upset. And we used to um code that as a level two um threat.
012And it's not the intent. They're not making a threat. So we looked at this with our legal representative to say, okay, they're having an emotional outburst. There's no intent to carry through with what they're saying. Also, we've added a level 2B 2BB cheating. This is the repeated willful or deliberate unauthorized use of the work of another person for academic purposes or unauthorized use of notes or other material in the completion of an academic assignment or test. This includes repeated unauthorized use or attempted use of artificial intelligence AI systems or other resources to generate content as one solely or original work while failing to properly site, disclose or specify the extent of the resources used. In addition to disciplinary responses, the student may receive no credit for the assignment, test or exam at the discretion of
013the teacher. So, we used to only have a level one for cheating, but we've added a also a level two so it could be repeated if it continues to happen. We've also added 2CC, physical aggression, brief physical contact like pushing or shoving without significant injury or adult intervention. This offense does not include fighting if the student involved are mutual combatants. Page 16. All right. Page 21. Under 3V harassment, we've added this offense includes but does not limit to pancing that includes limited exposure. So pancing means um this is really a middle school thing. They come up behind kids and they pull their parents down and nothing is exposed. It is a form of harassment. Um the kid is totally embarrassed. So we've added that so parents will know specifically that pancing um comes in harassment
014under harassment. Page 22 3 campus security violation. We've added um criminal activity or violence. Um then it's going to be um a level 40 other this was added at the recommendation of um district police cuz basically if you allow someone on campus um that doesn't belong there and they're coming on campus um to be involved in some type of criminal activity or some type of violence, then we're going to refer that um to a level 4T. page 23. We've also added another um offense 3B, physical aggression, repeated brief physical contact like pushing or shoving without significant injury or adult intervention. Um this is um a progression from the level two offense that we've added. Page 27, 4K other dangerous objects we added, including 3D created or printed replicas. Page 28. Under 40, sexual harassment, we've
015added but is not limited to unwanted sexing um sex that extends beyond the initial sender receiver or pancing that includes exposure of genitals. So before under harassment it was limited exposure. Under sexual harassment we added this for clarity. if genitals are are exposed. Page 29 under 4 Y simple battery we're removing immediate first aid or subsequent medical attention. Um, this was deleted as immediate first aid is not required by Cessor. Page 30. Under the simplified definition, we've added um for clarification purposes um using an electronic device, we remove computer or tablet All right. Page 33 on page 33. Um this is where um we have procedures for levels one through three. Um on step four, we've added um the principal design give written notice in writing of each suspension and the reasons for the suspension
016within 24 um business hours to the students parents by mail or parent square unless the parent elects to receive notification um via US mail. notification shall be made um to the superintendent designate. So this was added because state statute 10006.09 section 1 um allows the board to adopt a policy that parents can agree to receive um their notifications through an alternative method. So our method is going to be um parent square and an email and we will also still mail the letter home. So, there's going to be three ways parents can get notification of a discipline offense. On step six, and this was added for clarity, fail of the parent or guardian to appeal to the principal within 14 calendar days of the first notification of a discipline referral should redeem a waiver of any
017appeal to the addismal offense and consequence. What we did here, we're giving parents more time to appeal to the principal um regarding um a discipline incident levels one through three, page 35, step four, level four procedures. Um again we've added the same language that we add in steps one through three regarding um parents and the way they can elect to be communicated. Um again it's going to be email parent square or and they will still receive their letter within 24 hours of a discipline offense. page 36. Um, step seven, we've added students are not permitted to enroll in any OCPS school, including Orange County virtual school or charter school within Orange County, until the DTM process is complete. Sometimes we have um parents, we can be in the middle of an investigation and they will
018withdraw their kid um student from the school um trying to um to avoid the um the discipline investigation or whatever consequence that may come from that investigation. Um, step nine, same page 36. We've also added if a parent chooses to not accept the alternative placement, the student may not attend or take classes with Orange County Virtual School. Um, parents can enroll in um, Florida Virtual School. they can look at um I guess a private school or charter school because what's been happening um we've noticed kids that are um assigned to alternative school some kids that are fully excluded they are um going into um Orange County Virtual School. So, we've added that to um try to limit their enrollment in Orange County Virtual School when they are assigned to an alternative school or they're fully
019excluded. Step 13, we've added two words, weather and was provided um for clarity. page 38 in starts our um procedures for IDA over here. All right, at this time I'm going to turn over to Miss Haynes to um talk about those changes. >> Let me ask would this be a good time to pause and take questions from the board? >> Sure. Okay, let's do that at this stage. Um, member Gallo, you're recognized. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, okay. Can we go to um BB? It's It's the one on the AI and the cheating. Are we there? Yes. So it says that a um the student may receive no credit for the assignment, test or exam at the discretion of the teacher. The no credit conflicts with our 50% rule. So it will they get
020zero credit for it or they get credit to 50%. >> They will get credit for 50%. >> So do we want to be more explicit? Because if I was a teacher and I read I don't have to give them credit I and they cheated, I wouldn't give them credit. >> Uh may I I need to clarify. So I've asked for clarification because my understanding is that the 50% goes into effect at the end of the nine weeks. It does not apply to individual assignments. So a teacher could give 0 15 30 45 the actual grade for the individual assignments. It's when at the end of the nine weeks we look at the cumulative grade if it falls um below a 50 that we indicate that it is only a 50. >> Okay. Thank you. So
021we'll we're >> so it doesn't need okay then and for that case it doesn't need to be clarified because they would just go in as a zero and they get calculated out >> and what we'll do is we're going to send out clarification because that's come up a couple of times and so and I've heard comments from the teachers and I've shared that it's it's only at the end of the nine weeks. It's not individual assignments. >> Okay, perfect. That clears that up. And then um on the uh the next BB which was on physical aggression, it says um the one where it says that when there's no harm done, like it's physical aggression like a bump or a shove or you accidentally bump or we shove somebody. If it's like an accidental bump or
022shove, nobody was hurt. Why? Why would that be like a level three? Why couldn't that be a lower level? >> It is a It's a level two as well. >> Oh, so it's both a level two and a level three. >> Yes. >> And so who get So it's the up to the discipline team at the school to to determine if it's >> the level three is repeated. So it's this is the second or the third time this has happened. The first time is the level two one time happening. >> Okay. Okay. And it doesn't have to be to the same student. >> No. >> Okay. Um and then on just a clarification because I think I heard something different than what's written on page 33, step four, where it says that we're going to,
023you know, notify them, mail it out within 24 business hours, which is a change, I think, from when we said within 24 hours, right? So 24 business hours would be 3 days 86 24. No. So 24 hours uh comes into play when something happens on Friday and so there's nobody Saturday or Sunday. So it the 24 hours would then go to the following Monday. But if it happens on Monday at 2:00, it has to happen by Tuesday 2:00. Yes. >> It's only the weekend. >> Okay. So, I'm wondering if we could just like clarify that. Say business hours Monday through Friday only because when I read it, I'm thinking, oh, so now I've got to take business hours. There's eight hours and a business day. And I'm thinking I need to Okay, that means so
024maybe just that makes more sense. Um, and then it also said, I thought I heard you say district superintendent or their design, but in that it just says district superintendent. >> It does. >> So, I didn't know if we wanted to add designate to that. >> Got it. >> So, for that particular one, the state statute requires that it's the superintendent that is notified. >> Okay. Perfect. And then um on step six when we're talking about if they don't appeal in 14 days um are there any exceptions for that? Like I'm thinking of foster students, homeless kids that you know a may not have received it or the notification and didn't know. I mean just I want to ensure that it's just not black and white that there are shades of gray for those students
025that need it. >> You're right. their shades are great. If um they try to appeal to the principal and the principal is really hard and say you had 14 days, they can always reach out to our office and we will take a look at it. So, how would they how would that be communicated to the parent that they could reach out to the discipline team to look at it if if the principal says no? One of the reasons it was added was because we didn't want families coming back a year later. Sure. >> But I do understand your question. So we will um we will discuss how we would add something so families will know that they can reach out to the discipline office >> if the parent if the school is saying no. >>
026Okay, perfect. Just just so they know. Okay. And then um on step nine um if a child is expelled or gets sent for you know 90 days or whatever to positive pathways um I do know a lot of parents that I've spoken to that their student has gotten in trouble because kids are kids right they're not fully their frontal loes not fully developed they do stupid things they don't necessarily want the child in positive pathways because of the conation of positive pathways. And so I'm curious as to the rationale as to why we wouldn't let them go to OCPS or OCVS because in light of our budget shortcomings, as long as they're not around other students, they're in their home. They can be educated through OCVS, which at least we know they are being educated
027versus if they do homeschooling or go to some um private school that's not accredited and take voucher money. Like I I'm trying to understand the rationale on why we wouldn't want them in OCV. Like why are we giving Florida virtual the money versus Orange County virtual the money? As I mean as long as they're not around other kids, I don't see the harm in allowing them to go to OCVS if they do not choose to go to positive pathways. I would think that that should be another choice in our school tool belt. Madam Chair, may I? So, Orange County Virtual School is an OCPS school. So, we don't usually allow a student to avoid the consequence of being assigned to positive pathways by allowing them to be assigned to another district school. And there was
028some I think we've had a couple cases where we've had to deal with this this year where folks try to avoid the assignment to positive pathways by going to Orange County virtual. >> No, I understand that and and I'm I'm making the argument that we should allow it. I'm making the argument that we should change that policy because Positive Pathways is an Orange County public school. Um Orange County Virtual School is an Orange County school. They're separated from kids so they'd have to be at home. they still wouldn't be allowed on their homeschool campus. Why wouldn't we allow that and and offer that as an option as well as positive pathways? >> I I know that in the past because we don't allow them at any OCPS school and OCVS is an OCPS school. It's
029not allowed. We did not want to open the door for someone to come in and say, "Well, OCVS is a Orange County public school and you're allowing us to go there. Why can't I go to Boone High School or why can't I go to this other um Orange County school that is not my zone school? But I'll defer to >> So I just to interject, but we Positive Pathways is our school, too. So in my mind, I'm like, are there options? Could be Orange County Virtual School or Positive Pathway? Those are your only options if you want to remain in Orange County Public Schools. If not, go to I mean, we're we're giving money to Florida Virtual School. Like I just don't understand why we would give them the dollars when we have our own
030virtual school. I mean, wouldn't that just be a change of policy where we could say, "Okay, here's your two options. We're either going to bus you to positive pathways or you could do Orange County virtual school. We'll save money on busing. We'll keep the FTE. They're in their home. They're not allowed on campus. They're not allowed to attend anything else that Orange County Public Schools puts on other than OCVS or, you know, positive. I mean, because when they go to positive pathways, they can't do anything else either, but they're both schools. So, I to me, in my mind, that would be an easy change. It would save money on buses and we would keep the FTE in an era where budget is really, really tight. So in my view this is something that would be
031a policy change that the board could entertain if they want to do that. We have not done that in the past. Uh we have normally sent students to our this is our school second chance school is is positive pathways. Um these kids would come on campus for certain things such as testing and >> so testing they would have to go to positive pathways to get tested. They don't go to Orange County virtual students do not go to positive pathways. >> I mean, but could could they not? I guess is my question is what could they not could that not be the site where they get tested at? >> Yeah. >> So, can I just can I ask that this policy be brought before the board for discussion? >> I think you're this is a pol
032the code of conduct is a policy. It is in front of the board for discussion. If >> but you said we had to change another policy. >> No, no, no, no. I did. If I said that, I misspoke. I apologize. I I >> No, you can make this change here if the board wants to say uh students would be permitted to attend um either positive pathways or Orange County virtual school with testing to occur at positive pathways. If you want that language to be put in here, that could be the the will of the board there. Well, I would like to I would like to propose that that our two alternate sites for expulsion could be Orange County Virtual Schools or Positive Pathways. Um, I just think in the era that we're in, that makes
033sense. I don't I mean, I don't know why we would allow or you know, at least they may say no and they may want to go to a private school. That's fine, but at least we're giving them the option of virtual school. >> Dr. Vasquez, yeah, >> thank you. So, I need to um we need we need to look at this. Number one, I believe that OCVS only accepts students um at the semester. I could be mistaken and that would be something that we may need to change whereas Florida Virtual accepts them year round. Second is sometimes there is a delay in having a teacher for a particular course and so the child would not have access um to instruction right away as they would at um positive pathways. Yeah. But we'll we definitely can
034fl um flush it out to see what it would take and um giving them that option. >> Awesome. Thank you so much. Those are my questions. Thank you, Madam Chair. >> Fowler, sounds like you have a clarifying question. >> Turn your mic on, babe. Turn your mic on. >> Pull it towards you. >> Um I think if the child is if this is a punishment, uh they need to be positive pathways. I I agree with the fact that we should not be allowing them to go to Florida virtual because we have a virtual school in Orange County. But I I do understand that as uh superintendent said that if certain courses that the child is to be taken and if there it's not offered at um positive pathways that would I mean at um Orange
035County virtual that might present a problem. But part of this the reason why they're going to positive pathways is because they're being punished for what uh this is a consequence. you you do the crime, you got to pay the time. You've done something that's wrong, so you're not going to you got to take the consequence. And the punishment is positive pathways. If their parents wait a minute, if the parents opt to do it, okay, but I don't think we should make provision for the punishment. >> But me fell, just just make it was just in case you had a clarification question you up. You're on quue, but you're waiting. >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It was just if it was a quick question for you. >> Okay. I didn't want you I didn't want you
036all to start talking something else and then I can come back to that. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. >> You got I'm sorry, but I can come back on. >> I will loop back around to you is just to make sure that I'm sorry. >> No, you're good. Um uh yes, member >> I I want to seek clarification. Um and Greg Moody, I hope you're sitting down. Uh, do you also want us to bring back if that is the only option? OCBS? >> Yes. Well, >> what do you mean by explain what do you mean by only option? >> No positive pathways. >> No, like there is no positive pathways. It would be OCBS. >> No, I mean Okay. No, I I'm just giving them the choice between the two. Like I do believe that positive
037pathways. So, for someone who has done um something really okay, I'll give you egregious um like brought a gun to school, threatened somebody for a a gun. Well, that would they probably wouldn't even be eligible for positive pathways, but just say something along those lines and we send them to Positive Pathways. I think Positive Pathways is a better match because we do have mental health services there. we are able to help them with counseling, help them continue to learn and and we've seen good results from positive pathways that they don't come back, right? But for instance, for those kids that did something stupid that threatened a school, had no means to really follow through on that threat, and they get in trouble, I think that Orange County Virtual School would be a better fit for
038them because they just did something incredibly stupid and that especially if it's their first offense. And in that case, their parents would not want them to go to positive pathways because it just they would they would believe that their children that's not a good place for their child. They would then have access to Orange County virtual schools. >> Yeah. My concern is the opposite. My concern is that when faced with the option of OCVS or positive pathways, they would pick OCVS. and now we're running into the fact that maybe we're not generating the FTE necessary to run positive pathways. So, we'll look at both scenarios, but I believe remember most of these are secondary students, so middle and high school students that when given the option, they'll go with the virtual. Yeah. And I would
039I would as you kind of flush this out, I would be okay if we even determined like which things would would only be like if which offenses would would be like I don't you'd have to go to positive pathways versus maybe some of the others that are firsttime offenders less harmful but they caused a major disruption. Maybe those were and and they've been a good student. Maybe those would be the ones. Okay, we'll offer you I mean I don't even mind if we divide it that way if that makes sense. But just we do have especially the way Cessor is written and the laws that we have to abide by and the things that we have to report. I know a lot of times we we do get to consider the consequence but we don't
040really get to consider what's what gets put on the paper because that's state law. Um, so all I'm saying is where we can, I would rather keep a student that will never go to positive pathways within the Orange County family because at least then I know that they're learning. I know that we're talking to them. I know that we have eyes on them. Um, we're still getting the funding for them versus them go to a nonacredited private school. Um, I don't even know if a charter school would take them because most of them won't when they get expelled and so or go to like homeschooling or something where that child's not learning and won't be successful later in life. I'm just really thinking of what's best for the student and how do we ensure that
041after this incident they will prosper and be successful in their adulthood. >> Um, okay. Thank you. member will uh as we loop around maybe all board members can just make a quick note on that if it is a policy change I think we need to have the numbers for that um uh I'm up next I would absolutely be supportive of that um I think that a combination of what we spend on buses plus FT I think we could be maybe smarter or more better optimized on how we think about it maybe it's like member Galla said level one level two there are certain offenses where it makes sense to do OCVS versus there are some offenses that it it's >> it's only level four >> sorry for the yeah for the type of level four
042sorry um can go there um one of the questions I had was on the on the juvenile center so and I remember I I spent some time with uh Melissa Vickers about students who maybe are waiting to see a court or something like that are these students like where are these students I could Say I committed a crime. I'm I have to go to court. It's 90day wait in court. Am I positive pathways at this level usually or not really? >> So juvenile court. >> Yeah, they are um there is a juvenile detention center and they are provided education while they're waiting at the juvenile detention center. >> Yeah. I' I'd be curious to like maybe just better understand what the breakout of our students that are getting level four is going where do we
043have a sense like how many of them end up juvenile center versus positive pathways or is it really just they're because some of these arrests are >> so they would only go to the juvenile center if the um they're arrested. So, it has to be an arrestable, >> but there's some level fours that are arrest, you know, >> there are some, but we don't see that very often. >> Um, >> okay. >> Unless it's like a possession of a weapon um on campus, then they go >> I mean, we just we have some level fours that might be there. I would just I'm just curious on what that break down is between our level fours. So they may not have received if they may not have received their level four because the investigation may not
044be over. So we have to make sure that we give them due process. There are times when kids get arrested and they may not have an opportunity to write a statement or provide witnesses. So as soon as they are released from JDC, they come back to school to receive their um their um their referral. And then we have a DTM that happens within 10 days. So being in JDC and having a level four, they don't necessarily go together. >> Got it. Okay. We can spend some time offline. I think I'm generally just a bit I just need some clarity on on the the workflow of of some of these level fours. Um but I would be supportive of of some of the stuff that member Galla said. So I think it's it's a smart way
045to think about the FT. Um okay. for page I'm pulling it up the AI component as well. It's the first time I'm trying to think. Yeah, page 10. So what is unauthorized use or what's what's attempted use? Like how are we defining the attempted use of AI? Like I went to chatgbt.com and it was blocked but I attempt. So that's tempted. So that's a level one. Like I understand the use of but I'm just curious what attempted means. Never being too literal. Does that make sense? I guess if the teacher caught the kid trying to use AI, that would be an attempted use. That's a little too great for my liking, I would say. But I don't know what the example would be. like like as maybe like this teacher saw the student as she
046was walking around trying to use it. >> Yes. Or maybe using land school. >> So like the it hasn't fully been submitt. So this is like presubmission. It's considered attempted by post submission of the assignment. It's not attempted. It's used. >> Go ahead. >> Okay. >> We'll come back and we'll take a look at it. >> Thank I just I I attempted is yeah a little in the gray area. So I don't know what that means. Um >> therefore enforcement can be a little complicated there. Um the other one was on the simplified definition here it says or using a computer program to get answers. Um everywhere else we say uh electronic devices like through the rest of it. So I would just for consistently put electronic devices. I don't care how they use it
047but doesn't have to be a computer. Um, okay. Let's see. Where's my other one? Um, the attempted is also in level two offense, page 16, by the way. Uh, for cheating. Um, okay. And then on so physical aggression, this CC on page 16 that starts at level two. There's not a level one version of this of like a push or shove. It starts at level two. Is that right? >> Correct. >> Um, okay. I'll think about that one. Come back to that. Uh, the other one was pancing. So, I noticed that was included. I don't know if maybe we're having a lot of incidents of this. I am of the generation when pancing was very common in the middle school class. uh locker rooms. Unfortunately, I am the victim of pancing. >> Um >> yeah,
048it was very common in locker rooms. >> Okay. >> Had been a victim of pancing. Yeah. Okay. We have at least three board members up here that have been victims of pancing. >> Okay. >> Um I think it's more common uh than folks think. I level three feels a little harsh to me as a starting point. I don't know. Maybe it was >> it's a form of harassment. >> No. Under Okay. So that's why because it's harassment. >> Because it's harassment. Yes. >> Okay. >> All right. All right. I understand. But it's harsh. But I It really was. It was very common uh when I was in school. >> Like it was as I know. Yes. >> Well, no. I understand if you expose things that should be much higher. So I don't disagree with
049the progressive component. I think that's absolutely fair. But maybe of how common it was when I was in school, it's going straight to a level three. Um, felt harsh to me. But I don't know. Maybe that's just that's just me. Okay. Okay. Those are my questions. Thank you. Uh, member FRA. >> Sorry. I know. I thought you were asking me to chime in on that. >> Like, okay. No. Um, perfect. Honestly, I think we've kind of covered I was going to talk on um page nine. Um my only question is just how are we Okay, it talks about the informing parents. Hold on. If I can find the informing parents that they can ask for it in email or is that page nine? I don't know. I wrote page nine but now I don't know.
050Um oh, I know what it is. Uh, how do we inform parents that they are able to sign the form prior to an incident happening where um where their kid wouldn't have to do an investig like be part of an investigation? >> It's in the code. So, we're hoping well parents should go over the code with their kids. So, it's in the code. >> So, only there. That's the only time I I would say if there's a way for principles or for the district maybe even to share communication um >> I say it only because I've had many parents tell me why was my had in, you know, uh, interviewed for an investigation without my knowledge. I had no idea. And then they say, well, then they said the the principal or whoever it is
051that is doing the investigation says, well, you could have done a um, you know, signed a form and they go, well, how was I supposed to know? And I'll be real honest with you, 98% of our parents are not going line by line reading this code of conduct. It's there so that it's a backup. we can show that we did give it. But I mean, in all honesty, parents are not reading this with their kids. >> So, we do have a video um that we um share with parents. I want to say do an open house, but we will come up with other ways to communicate with parents that they can um opt out. >> Perfect. Perfect. And maybe just real clear of why you would feel you want to opt out and what is
052the if you do opt your kid out, this is kind of the consequence, not necessarily consequences, but this is >> the investigation will still go on even if you opt your child out. >> Right. Right. >> No problem. >> Okay. And then um it was page 33 and 35. That's where I was thinking about the letter. Um, it's talking about how we're giving them the op like it's automatic that they'll be receiving an email or a parent square, >> but then do they also get the mail or that's like they're opting they'd have to opt into the mail. So, we've already discussed um reached out to um Alicia Leonard and you know how we have those um forms that um the yearbook form and um those notifications at the beginning of school year, we're going
053to add this one as well. So, they would have to um it's going to be defaulted to receiving the parent square or email. Um but we're still going to give them all three. So to answer your question, either way they opt in, opt out, they still will get all three communications. >> So why? >> Just so we would cover all of our bases. >> Okay. But let's say so if they opt into email or well it's already they're already opted into it, correct? >> Right. So they would have to opt into it being uh sent be USPS. So the default will be email. >> The question is so if the default if they just decide to stay with the default, they will not receive a mail. >> We're still going to give them a mail
054because um we talked about >> why are we doing a default or no default? Um because we it was a suggestion made at cabinet that um the policy is going to say that they're going to receive it by email or parent square, but we know that there are some parents that may not check their email, may not check parent square. So we're still going to give them um have the school send it by um USPS as well. >> So just having it in the policy just to to be there and then they're checking it. But I get I don't know. I feel like it seems kind of redundant. Like if they're getting it anyways, then it doesn't matter either way. >> if we email it to them, if they opt for the email, they're going
055to get the notification right away. Um if they opt for parent square, they're going to get it right away. Um with the mail, it's going to take 24 hours or um I'm not making excuses for for schools. Sometimes it may take a day or two before it's put in the mail, but if we opt in for um parent square or email, they're going to get it right away within within less than 24 hours. >> I see. So, they're just basically opting in or out of if they want email communication, but either way. Okay, that makes sense. Okay. And then my only last thing, and I don't know that this is part of the parent or the scoot, the code of student conduct, but um it really rubs me the wrong way every time I hear
056the whole thing of the 50% that we give kids. I know that there's a a reasoning behind that or whatever. And I don't know if that's just to make sure that kids uh graduate, but um I cannot tell you how many people I've talked to, students that I've talked to who say they are trying so hard. They do everything that they can and they're barely squeaking by with a 65 or, you know, a 70, but they're doing their very best. And then they look at the kid next door who's cheating, who's uh not showing up to class and not doing anything, and they'll get a 50% for the quarter. Um, and we've had teachers, which I know I've brought this up before, and uh, it I, you know, obviously not the standard that we want,
057but teachers who will say, "Listen, as long as you get an A your first quarter, you can do whatever you want the other quarters." Um, because at least you'll get 50%. Kids are not dumb. They know this, and that's why a lot of times they're not striving for be what's best, uh, because they get a participation trophy. Uh, so how do we remove that? May I, Madam Chair? >> Yes, ma'am. >> Um, so um the board would have to the majority of the board would have to give us direction to um change our pupil progression. Uh that was put in at the request of the board um many years ago. And the difference is that if a child is getting a 65, that's a D and they're passing. If a child gets a 50, it's
058an F and they're failing. And for a child who h is having maybe their uh parents are having to work at night and they're by themselves, they don't have an opportunity to do homework. Um and maybe uh in the first nine weeks they um just couldn't do everything. If they get a 50 and they then get their act together, they're then able to pass the the class versus if you have a zero as your grade. It's very very difficult to get out of that hold even if you do better the second, third, and fourth nine weeks. So if you do the math, a child who is failing with a 50 will fail the class. If you give them a zero and then maybe they do better and they get a 70 and a 70 and
059or a 50, a 70, a 70, they're not they're able to get out of that hole versus the zero. That's the only reason. but it was at the will of the board to change our student progression plan. And so if the majority of the board wants that change, we can bring it back to you. >> I think I'd like to see if there was a way to even I don't know if it needs a workshop, but really just dig into has that really benefited students. Are they actually learning or is this something that where kids are taking advantage of it? uh because I understand that there are circumstances um that it could be helpful, but from the cases I've seen, it's more kids take advantage of the fact that they can just kind of squeak
060by and then try a little bit at the end and do decent. So, um, if I can weigh in for just a minute because I do remember I he probably me for probably gets tired of hearing me say, "Yeah, I I was thinking that too." But I do think if we could not right now, but set aside some time just to walk through this because it has to do more with the scale of our grades. So if we had like a zero to five um as opposed to what we have which is zero to 100 it it would make more sense because you could catch up but the scale being from zero anyway it just it it's a mathematical thing that it took a it it took them a little bit of walking through examples
061more than we have time for right now but let's carve out some time to walk through that. Okay. Yeah. Cuz I just like no, this is not okay. You should go get a zero. But all right, we'll come back. But um at this point, member >> member Bird. >> Thank you, Chair. Um yeah, I think that would be a good idea to workshop that. I think it's been several years since that decision was made and there's always questions that keep coming up about it. >> Yeah, I'm foggy even. It made sense to me, but I'm a little foggy on why. Mhm. >> But I know when when we got done, I was like, "Oh, yeah." But I can't explain it. >> Right. Um I have a quick question about um the notification in the interview,
062which has always kind of been a sore spot for me anyway. Um but just because I am not comfortable with and I understand we are allowed by law to interview students and get all that but on our own but it just still is makes me uncomfortable that we do that without them having parents there to be a part of it. So my question is why did we add the language um for students in grades K through two um that administration will make every attempt to notify the parents before any disciplinary investigation um before the student participates. Like why are we just doing that for K through2? I thought we were trying to I thought we had discussed this previously at one of our previous board meetings when we talked about the code and we had
063decided that administrators would make an effort to contact parents for all students before they interviewed or before they started an investigation. So, I'm just wondering why we changed it, why we've added grades K through two only. And I'm on page uh nine. >> It's not listed anywhere else um specifically a grade level about um contacting parents before you um talk to um a student. Um, we heard you guys. We listened to parents about kindergarten through 2 grade and we um felt the need to make sure the schools are attempting to contact the parents of those little ones to um be there on the phone or come in person when they speak to those students. >> Okay. Um, I mean, you know, I don't know if I'm alone on this, but I just am really uncomfortable
064with us interviewing students um without at least trying to reach out to parents first. And and my only this is my thinking, right? You got a 10-year-old, an 11-year-old, a 12-year-old. >> They don't think when they say things. and then they're in there talking to an adult and they very well could say something incriminating that actually could be criminally incriminating, you know. Um, and just like if you if it's your own child, I mean, like anybody, what's the one thing of advice you have is like don't talk to anybody unless you have a lawyer present, right? So, I just feel like we're we're just throwing that out the window when it's children and someone needs to be someone needs to be there to I don't know or at least we need to make the attempt
065to have someone there. um if we can. I don't I'm just uncomfortable with not at least trying to reach out to parents. If if there's a serious situation and you're investigating, you call a kid in to question them. Um that's my concern with that one. My other thing um and I had written down I agree wholeheartedly with bringing back um uh and talking about allowing Orange County virtual and I was wondering if it might be possible for us to even get some data as to how many level fours um we had in the last year that did enroll in positive pathways. and did not like how many students did we lose because I would imagine there's quite a few students that when they're expelled or when they're excluded and sent to positive pathways the parents
066chose to pull them and go to Florida Virtual or homeschool them or send them to a private school or something like that. I would imagine that there's a a decent number of those. So, if we could maybe get some data on how many um how many that was, that might be helpful for us to help make this decision. But I um I think I totally agree with everything member Gallo said. I think that um the dis the consequence is that we are excluding them from attending school with their friends, from their extracurriculars. That is a consequence for their behavior and that is the discipline. it. I don't feel like it needs to necessarily be you go to positive pathways is the discipline. I think being at home by yourself doing school on your computer as
067opposed to at school every day with your friends is discipline as well. So, um I don't have a problem with offering both those options and I think that um I think that would be really smart actually for us to to look at. >> Uh member banos. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll just uh start there where member Bird left off. I I do agree um with member Galla, with member Bird. Um and I think pointing out again that the punishment is not being in school. Um and and I think it's also important to think about how we want to characterize positive pathways. Like it's not like it's a punishment, but it's also like a way to kind of help students get what they need and kind of get back on track. And so I think that
068that should be a part of this conversation too. Um I would be interested um along with the data that was requested for positive pathways also interested in the students who attend and what their um you know what their discipline record or whatever is like after attending positive pathways. I'd be interested to see that. Um, okay. I also wanted to agree with member Bird on what she said about reaching out to parents to be involved um, even if the student is above second grade. Um, and part of that reason is I think I think it would help with the later process also of discipline of parents feeling like they're more involved and they understood what happened. And um I I just think it would I think it just would help with with actually all the process
069just to make it a little bit more clear to the parents. So I do agree with member Bird on that. Um okay. And then on page three I also wanted to I'm so agreeable today. Um wanted to agree with member Ferrron um regarding the um the the written note that parents can have. Could we just do an opt- out form? I don't know if I I might have missed that. Could we just do that instead of having parents write a note? >> So, if you don't want your child to participate in the disciplinary investigations rather than tell the parents that they need to send in a written note, could they could there just be a form that they could sign if they don't want their child to participate in that? Because I don't I just
070don't I can't imagine any parent who would like actually write a note just based on reading the code. Well, we do get a lot of parents too that that um send that into the principal and it's printed out and it's kept in the students discipline file. >> I'm just not sure if they opt out um how we get that form >> because I don't know if there's a lot of things to opt out on that particular form. >> Mr. Pomearini, >> I I need to ask some clarifying questions just so I understand where the board is on this. Are we talking about the student who's the alleged perpetrator? Are we talking about all the students who are alleged witnesses to these potential incidents? Are we talking about contacting every every student who's a witness? >>
071I mean, I thought it was every student who's a witness. >> All right. Um, >> so we're going to need to get you numbers because literally at a high school I'm going to go low on but let's say they have 40 referrals uh in a day but let's So that's at least 80 calls. Now you're asking uh and I I also need clarification. You're just asking that we attempt to make contact. If they don't, you're not asking us to wait to interview the students. If the parents, they can't reach the parents. Or are you? >> I just think that the I guess what I'm So there were two separate things. I think this is um and I believe if you could go back to page three, I sorry I don't have a copy of it.
072I didn't get a hard copy um of this, but I think it was just participating in disciplinary investigations. I I think I think there were a lot of parents who don't necessarily want their child to participate in them. And so I I do think they should have the ability to opt out um of of participating. And if the school needs and I also I this is a bigger concern. I have real concerns about using witness statements in the way that we're using them against um students who have been um who are attempting to be, you know, who have uh been alleged to have violated the code of student conduct. So, I I think for me it's just part of a a bigger issue, but um but I I do think that parents should be alerted
073if their child is going to be interviewed as part of an investigation. >> No, alerted is fine because we can call, we can, you know, leave a message. I think the the question is are you saying that we do not begin the investigation until we have gotten consent from the parent that we can talk to them? >> That's what I would that's what I would say. I'm curious what the rest of the board would say. >> So that's going to delay um um completing the investigation. So in our code whether the student wants to write a statement or not and the the students writing a statement is they their way of explaining what happened if they choose not to write a statement then the school um the discipline team we don't have their side of
074the story but the investigation is going to take place with other kids that will write statements. >> Okay. And I mean I I guess that's that's sort of the issue I have is like with we're we're sort of basing a student's alleged violation on something that other students are just writing. >> But there are witnesses to what happened. >> Okay. I I Okay. It sounds like I I'd be curious to see where other board members weigh in on this. So I will just put it out there. Um I I just have concerns with this process, but Okay. Um on page 33, this is just brief. This is about the parent square um email letter notification. Just making sure that on that parent square notification, there's a very clear subject line about what the notification is
075about. Um because I I would guess that maybe not every parent opens every parent square email. So just just as a process matter so that they know Um and then also okay page 36 it's talking about the DTM um process which you said takes 10 days. So during that process are students in school for most level fours um kids are suspended for 10 days. We um have our DTMs within that 10day period. Um, I would say the area administrators do a great job in trying to have the um, DTM prior to the 10 days. So if the kid is returning to school, they get back to school um, sooner. But the DTMs occur within a 10day window. >> And so then that overlaps with this suspension or is that an addition? >> No. So you
076get suspended for 10 days and the disantine meeting will occur within that 10day period. Okay. So, so it overlaps. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Um I also had a a question on um page 13 and this was not a highlighted one but it's a about the destruction of property and it says something about willful and malicious intent. So, If a student does something stupid and let's say just like throws something in a classroom, not out of like intent to harm, but just throw something and property gets damaged. Are they still and it's not related to to hate. It's literally like they they they toss a I don't know a ball across the room and they shouldn't have but it's not intending to hurt anyone or hit a teacher or hit a student but let's say they
077hit a I don't know whiteboard or something and it is destroyed. Are they would that be included in this or do you actually have to have the intent to h to destroy something? >> So based on um the definition it should be willful or malicious. So I'm they should be having the intent to to do harm. >> Okay. So if they're just goofing around and something happens, they're not they would it would not be implicated >> under the code >> based on investigation. No. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh and then just one last question I have and this this is kind of a part of uh the conversation about positive pathways and and the consequences that students get for certain violations of the code. Do teachers have the do they see the consequences like do
078they see the discipline ladder >> when they let's say write a referral >> if they request a letter the principal should share the letter with them >> okay but they don't actually so they don't just get a copy of it with the code? >> No. >> Why is that? >> It's given to the principles. And when you say um get a copy with the code, I'm not sure if all teachers get a copy of the code unless they print the code out themselves. >> So when they write a student, can you then >> So when the teacher writes a referral, they complete the top portion, the student's name, student number, and the description. Then it goes to the administrator to determine the consequence based on the investigation. >> I think it would be helpful for
079for teachers to see what the consequences are for some of the violations of conduct. Is that not allowed? >> Okay. Okay. >> I think that would be helpful for teachers to just have that or educators to have that at their disposal. >> Chair, may I >> Mr. Mr. Palarini. >> So under the statute, a teacher, this is 10332, a teacher has the ability when they're writing a referral to make a recommended penalty under the code of conduct. So they can say for example I always give um the kid was pencil fighting so I recommend that he gets suspended for 10 days or expelled. Right? So they can make that recommendation. The principal then under the statute has the the authority to either implement the teacher's recommended penalty or tell them I'm not implementing the recommended
080penalty and here's why. So teachers have the ability to recommend what they think the appropriate penalty for an act is. And then the principal could say in this case, listen, you recommended a 10-day suspension for, you know, pulling the cell phone out on the first offense, right? Under our discipline ladder that the district has developed. That's not the appropriate consequence for a first uh offense of pulling your cell phone out when you're not supposed to have. So teachers have the ability to give recommendations on that. That doesn't mean the principal has to follow them. They can. the principal can act in accordance with the discipline ladder. Now, discipline ladder is obviously a document that's a public document and it is something that folks can get a hold of if they want it. Um, but that
081is the process statutoily and how it's laid out is teacher makes recommendation says this offense occurred. I recommend this penalty. Principal says all right I'm finding the offense occurred but I'm not giving this penalty or I am giving your penalty. Sometimes they hit it spot on and that they are giving the penalty. >> Well, I I appreciate that description. Oh, sorry. >> There's no reason why we we can't at the beginning of the year just send a link uh to all of the teachers that has the code and the and the matrix. It's not a problem. >> Okay. Thank you. That's all. >> All right. Thank you, Member Vanos. Member Douglas. >> Okay. I just would like a few clarification on on a few points that you gave us. uh the one on uh on
082I think it's 3E I'm not sure when a child has a medd down and is what are the consequences for that and uh you were saying that we won't punish him because so there's a range of consequences for um 3BB physical aggression okay So, so the range of consequences can be alternative class, it can be a behavior contract plan, it could be detention, um, it could be pass from 1 to 10 days. Um, level three is also carry a suspension from school 1 to 10 days. So, there's a range of discipline responses for all level three offenses. And there's a range for for each one. A level two has a range of offenses. Level two has a range. Level three has a range. >> So if a child has a meltdown in the middle of
083the classroom, >> for example, does he have any what are the consequences of that? >> It will depend on what he says. >> It depends on the investigation. >> Okay. Okay. And uh if a child for example during that meltdown says something like I want to hurt myself or I just want to do something. Is there any uh followup on this to make sure that maybe the counselor >> So if if a child is having a meltdown, there's an investigation and from the investigation, there's there's several things that can happen. Um that child will be referred um to counseling. Also, um depending on um if the child has um IEP, um the IEP team may get together and and look at um putting some things in place to support that child. Okay, good. Um uh
084could you also repeat what the um you said the SR wanted to add regarding unw unwanting visitors in schools something I'm not sure do you do you see what I'm talking which one >> campus security >> oh 3 yeah I think that's the one >> so 3 is a campus campus security violation um it's intentionally allowing someone to have unauthorized access to school campus or a specific classroom. I'm going to give you an example. Um I go to Boone, >> but my friend from um I got a friend and they're mad at one of the students at Boone. So I am going to prop the gate open. Okay. Leave a little pebble so they can come in and fight the person they're mad with at Boone. And if that happens, that could be um violence
085>> or some sort of criminal activity. And in that case, then it's going to be um a level four offense. >> Okay. That was not already in long time ago. I mean, is that something new? >> The criminal activity violence for and to make it a level four is new. >> Oh, really? Just >> Okay. All right. But the um the three eert I'm sorry campus security violation is not new. Basically we're adding it for clarity to be specific. So when this does happens um students parents can't say I didn't know. >> Okay. Legally people know that's the reason why. Yes. >> Okay. Perfect. Okay. Um just one more time um parents will get notification through parent square email and what is the third one? So there were three >> um regular mail >> and
086email. >> Email, regular mail and parent square. >> Regular mail. Okay. Okay. All right. Um and talking about um Miss uh uh member Fance, when you were talking about the 50% as a teacher, I felt the same way you felt. Uh I I think that would be great if we leave that to uh the teachers discretion because they know their students. Okay. You know what the student is doing every day. You have the student that we know are trying really hard but difficulty getting that 50% even that 60%. And you have kids that do absolutely nothing or don't even come to school and get the same grade. And that's how always always hurt my heart because I'm like why do I have to give 50% to that kid? He never showed up in school. Never.
087And then you have the other kid was always here but struggling >> and I still have to give him the same grade. And I think that's a great uh yeah we need to have that discussion because uh it needs to be done. Thank you so much. Thank you for clarification. Appreciate it. >> Thank you member Douglas. member Felder. >> Thank you, Chair. >> It's a lot, but I just kind of want to kind of piggyback on what uh I heard regarding the first thing I want to talk about um the uh um positive pathways and uh and opting out of that. And uh I agree with many of my board members who said that we may need to do some type of work session to kind of discuss the pros and cons of that. Uh
088because the the bottom line is we want children in school even if they misbehave. They're going to misbehave, but we still need them to participate in the learning process. However, if you have done something that is punishable, you need to deal with the consequences. That's part of education of of life. When you do something that's not right, you have to be willing to deal with the consequence because you're not going to always be able to get around it. And life teaches you that. So, you need to deal with the consequences. However, I I'm not um proponent of one who just continuously keeping kids out of school, you know, and they're not getting there's no learning taking place. That does disturb me. The other point I want to talk about from a teacher perspective. I remember
089the first time we got the information about grading. Uh you have this student who's come to school every day working hard as they possibly can and they are not going to get above a 56%. you've tutored them, you've studied with them, they have uh the plan, they have a lot, but they they just they're not really getting, but they trying. And you have a kid, a student who doesn't come to school at all. And I had a friend of mine tell me his daughter, we getting nearing up to graduation and end of the school. She has 13 assignments missing. She told her mom and dad, "Look, I can knock it out in one night. I go to bed at 2:00 and I knock them all out like one night. And the parent told me he's
090upset with the teacher that the teacher would allow her to make up those 13 assignments. And I recall when we were in the COVID stage, I remember Dr. Shov came to my house and said to me, "Miss Felder, stop giving the children assignments." I loved Canvas because I was sitting there looking at I was at home and I was just coming with all these assignments. I was so creative and I forgot those children had six other classes. It that did not bother me. And he said, "Don't give them any more assignments. Stop." Because it was just too much, you know, and and and and sometimes it is too much. However, it is something to think about the fact that a child comes every day, works hard, then you have this one student that don't come
091or sleeps or skips and then they just make it up the 14 assignments and the teacher is there trying to get all those grades in and I don't know whether they do it sometime they may not. They just say, "Okay, you did it. Check, check." And I mean, what is that accomplishing? So I think we do need to kind of revisit perhaps the the 50% but then on the other token I have mixed emotions about it. A child that has a 35% a 25% a 12% they will never be able to get a passing score to they they can't make that up. So I try to be creative as a teacher by having extra credit extra assignments not extra credit because they they need I had my students understand that there's difference between extra credit
092and extra assignments. Extra credit is for those students who can do what's already required then you can do extra credit but I will give you another assignment or extra assignment but extra credit is not for students in my opinion who cannot do what's already required and already what's assigned that you don't get extra credit those are for the students who have done what has been required and you got a a time or you want to move that B to an A or that 90% A to a 96% % A. That's who I give extra credit to. But I'm not teaching in the classroom anymore, so I don't know how to do it. But that's how I do it. You don't just get extra credit because you don't do the assignment. No, no, no. That's a
093zero. And I can give you another assignment, but you no, no, no, no extra credit. And the other thing I want to talk about is um when students have been uh caught in a uh disciplinary uh action and the interview with the students teachers if like I think uh uh superintendent says something about 80 referrals or something. It is very taxing for a teacher to stop to call a parent during that day and they try to teach class. Then after school there's meetings. If they have a extracurricular activity they're sponsoring. It's difficult for them to stop right then and call a parent. You got you try to teach class. That's hard. However, I wonder could you at least give a phone call to the parent when you have a student in your office in the
094disciplinary office and they should have numbers where somebody that can be reached to say we're getting ready to interview your your child on this particular action that he or she was accused of doing. I am not an advocate of in uh interrogating students number one without the parents permission or the parent being there and children as member Bur said especially elementary school children they'll say stuff and they don't realize what they talking about now fully grown high school student they know what they're talking about but you still should give their parents the opportunity and the right to know that you're questioning them and then if we do that it needs to be done across the board what all races of children, all children, whatever uh abilities that they have or whatever their sexual preferences are,
095they need to have equal protection under the law. They need to be treated equally. But I do believe that um I would like to have know that parents are aware and they've given the administration of the SRO permission to uh ask the question. And I have said in past is maybe it's a good thing I'm not in the classroom no more because I might be in professional standards. But I have said if you're being questioned, you can tell the SR I refuse to ask that question. Do you ask my parents permission? You can't question me. I tell my students all the time if you're called in and you feel like you don't want to ask tell them say I will not I refuse to answer that question till you get permission from my parent. And
096then the parent is on a speaker phone and they they have it that way. I I am an advocate of that because I think children need to pro be protected as long as they're as long as possible while they're children because the world can be quite quite cruel. Uh, but I I will say that um I like positive pathways and I I do not want if we're going to put them in a virtual school, our ver county virtual school, not Florida virtual because we we lose money, you know, doing that. But again, if you we probably need to workshop this. I probably need to hear more size of it. If you do the punishment, beloved, you need to pay the time. You do the crime, you need to pay the time. You have done something
097that was wrong. You need to be punished. How you're punished that can be debatable. You know what I'm saying? Because but you just you have to learn. You can't do that. But I definitely uh believe in letting the parents know and getting spec uh permission before you question children. And then this thing about witness statements. I understand sometimes the the uh the um consequence has occurred the act disciplinary action has occurred at a time where there's a very gray area and I know why they ask students um for witness statements because the administration they need to build a case they need to see whether this is something that really needs to be investigated. Also, sometimes teachers have been uh accused of things and there needs to be witness statements and sometimes children lie, sometimes adults
098lie. So, you know, I I think that we need to handle this kinds of thing, this kind of thing with witness statements. I think we need to handle that very gingerly, very cautiously because you do you do need you do need to know why you have a reason to question the action of the person that has committed a particular action. So, you need some witness statement. But again, in closing, uh I'm the last person talking, so I always feel rushed. But um I don't think you should question children without the presence of their parents either physically there or on the phone. I just think the parents reserve the right to know what are you asking my child and what did my child do? Thank you. >> Okay. Thank Thank you, Member Felder. We um I
099I paused in the middle of the presentation because there were a number of people who had questions and I thought it might be more efficient. We still have the rest of presentation to go. Um we we uh have several uh speakers queued up for round two. I would like everybody to pause and let us get through the presentation. I would like clarification from the superintendent in terms of where we are with the first part of the presentation. Um what's outstanding that you need direction on? I will weigh in on the one thing that I know I came back in the middle of and that was virtual. Orange County virtual versus Florida virtual. I my preference would be Orange County virtual has nothing to do with the money, but I think that being able to keep
100the student their records, their environment um as part of our own. I think reaccepting them into back into the classroom. I I just think all of that will work better. Um so that's my that's my vote or two cents on that. Dr. Vasquez, other things that we need direction or do you have enough since I did step in way and I apologize for that? >> You know, um we have uh agreed to some of the changes. There's some things that we're going to bring back including uh OCVS as an option for positive pathways and we'll flush that out and see if we need to put some restrictions. Um, for example, students that are um attending OCVS are able to go on campuses there uh and attend events. Students who have committed a level four offense
101are not. And so those are things that uh we can bring back to the board um with recommendations on how we um may be able to offer OCVS. We've agreed that we're going to um make sure that all of our uh teachers have the code of conduct as well as the matrix. Uh we are going to need to have more conversation around um uh the board members requests to not speak to students unless the parent is there uh physically on the phone. I I believe that the board is not aware and and you shouldn't be, but you're not aware the volume of referrals that are received um at a school level and um what that will mean if we cannot speak to students unless the parent has consented. And additionally, I think that'll pose some
102issues with the timelines that we are required to follow. Some of them are statutory. So, we will come back um after we've uh had more conversations around it and see if >> my basic my one question for you is timeline you just mentioned. Um where are we on the timeline again? We probably we're scheduled to have another I believe we had planned on another work session um uh on this based on the feedback we got today. >> So the team is prepared for that and so it it'll be in a couple of weeks. >> Okay. So we do have time for that. Great. Um and I'm sorry and then the whole separate issue that has nothing to do with the code of conduct um we will come back to the board as part of our
103uh review of our pupil progression plan. Okay, great. Okay, so we don't have to land the plane on a number of these issues um that there's still some debate on. Member Galla, you wanted to say something before we move on. Yeah. >> Yes. I just have a quick suggestion. I know that at the top of the referral um students can opt out. They could just they could refuse to do the witness statement. So, I'm wondering if the easiest thing to do would be alongside that box that a student can refuse without parental consent. like I I will make a statement, but not until you get a hold of my parent. Like maybe we could just put a box there and they could check it. That way we're not burdening staff, but then a a child
104wouldn't be intimidating to make a witness statement if they saw that they that they could check that box that they want their mom or dad called. >> Member Gallo, would I I honestly think since we're going to bring it back anyway, >> talk about >> let's talk about it then. Yeah, because I mean I just >> making their suggestions. I I I know and I it's crossed my mind and I've had the argument back and forth myself. Um and then there's like three sides of me that are arguing at the same time. So all I can say is if we go down that path, you guys are going to have to listen to me for a while. So let's bring it back so we can devote our time to that. But thank you for the
105heroic try. Um all right, the rest of you all, we're going to come back after we finish presentation. Okay. And Dr. Basquez, thanks for clarifying kind of where we are so we can move forward. So, we're going to turn it over to um Sarah Capesque. She's going to talk about the recommended changes for ESC and 504 section. >> Good afternoon. Um, I'm going to be looking on our closer screen because I forgot my glasses so I can't see up there. Thank you, Miss Aids. Um, so the first part is the title. We're just removing that term for services just to shorten the title a little bit. I don't think that that part is needed. Um, the second change you'll see on this page just says that this section only applies to students who qualify under
106the IDA. Uh, not section 504. There's another section for 504. So, it's just notifying them if your child has a 504, you need to go to that section um and not this one. Um the next paragraph is actually information taken from the suspension section and manifestation determination section that we currently have, but it basically just states that students that have disabilities can still receive uh disciplinary referrals for violations of the code. However, their dis their disability is taken into consideration when determining the determining the consequences that the student will receive. In addition, a student with disabilities may receive out of school suspension for up to 10 school days without consideration as to whether the student's behavior is directly and substantially related to the student's disability. However, after these 10 school days, the school is required
107to hold a meeting to look at the correlation between the student's disability and behavior in question. that um language is actually taken directly from the IDA and state board of education rules. We thought it was important to add there because we do have several parents um advocates and even attorneys that come forward and say um that if a student has a disability, they should never get a referral. Um and that's not necessarily the case. We do have reporting requirements to the state in order to um report specific incidences that occur on our campus, but we do look at their disability when we're talking about a consequence. So that's where their disability is taken into consideration. Um the next part uh just clarifies under the suspension section that if it's a student with a disability under
108the IDA, again this section only applies to those students with IEPs, not section 504 plans. Um and then down further, it's just some clarifying language that we added in there um on that. So if you could go to the next page. Thank you. Um, we updated the manifestation determination section to add review at the end. Um, we lovingly call it an MDR meeting. So, you may have heard that in some of our conversations or possibly in emails you receive from parents, but that's just to align with how the US DOE and the state board of education um term this type of meeting. Um, and then the next sentence, you'll see some red lining there, but it's really just simplifying the sentence. It's not a substantive change. um there. So if we go down to the
109bulleted list, uh the section at the bottom that you see that is crossed out is actually added as a bullet bullet above. Um and so it's if the behavior is determined to be a manifestation of the student's disability, the team must consider whether a functional behavioral assessment or FBA and or BIP needs to be developed or if a BIP has already been developed, whether the BIP needs to be modified to address the student's current behavior. Um and that is a requirement under the IDA. Um and then there is one sentence in that strike through that we removed completely saying that the procedural safeguards must be provided to the parents or guardians at the manifestation determination meeting. The reason that this was removed is because a lot of times they're provided beforehand. So um I didn't
110want schools to be um confined to that they only can provide at the manifestation meeting. A lot of times they do provide it before, they provide it at, and sometimes they provide it after. And a lot of our staffing specialists actually have a link on their emails that links you to the procedural safeguards as well. So there's many ways that we get this to the parents. If you go to the next PL page, please. Um, and then in this section, again, just really uh simplifying the language, removing that where it says provided at the manifestation meeting again for those procedural safeguards for the same reasons I just explained. Um, and then adding in that next paragraph, it's important to note that pursuant to the IDA, if a student is placed in in an interim alternative
111educational setting due to a violation of the code and then the parent or guardian appeals the decision, the student actually remains in that interim alternative educational placement. So that means like if a student receives a level four, it's determined not to be a manifestation of their disability, they get assigned to positive pathways. um they remain in positive pathways if the parent appeals that manifestation determination until the outcome is determined by a hearing officer. If you go to the next page, please. Thank you. So, this is the section 504 um portion of the code that I was referencing earlier. Um this one already has a reference to the IDA, so we did not have to add that here. But it does add in the same statement that we added under the IDA section that students with
112disabilities may still receive disciplinary referrals. And then instead of citing the IDA, we cited uh section 504. Um down in the bottom, again, just clarifying that this pertains to students with a disability under section 504. Um and then here again updating that manifestation determination to manifestation determination review throughout this um portion. And then also adding in that section 504 manifestation meetings are not governed by the IDA. Rather they're governed by section 504. So um section 504 actually doesn't call it a manifestation determination meeting. We've coined it that because that's what the US DOE calls it, but it's not the same type of meeting or same regulations that they have underneath the IDA. Actually, under section 504, it's called a placement meeting. Um, but we didn't want to confuse parents, so we still call it the
113manifestation meeting. Um, and then at the very bottom again under the appeal section, uh, same thing where we just updated the language there a little bit, letting parents know that if the student is placed at an interim alternative educational setting, that they, um, the student will remain there should the parent appeal the decision until the outcome of that decision um, changes or if it remains the same, then obviously they would stay in the alternative setting. That's why You >> guys have any questions for Sarah? >> Is that the end of >> of end of her section? >> ESC4. >> The 504 in um ESC section. >> We do. Do we want to take questions now? Are we going to say let's keep moving? >> No problem. >> All right. Page 49. Just another minor change
114where we remove firearm and weapons because um any object can fall under safe harbor. Now we're going to go to page 50 with this dress code. As Dr. as Wes stated earlier, um you know, from our some of our community meetings, um meetings with um teachers, um meeting with cabinet, um wanted, um a little clarity when it comes to um dress code. So, um only one minor change and it's going to be at the bottom, but what we did, we we tried to update and clarify um under number two. So we said um tops must have straps which is already there and provide provide full coverage from armpit to armpit and then we added spaghetti straps are not permitted. We midrifts and sides may not be exposed including where including when arms are raised above
115the head and hemlines must be no shorter than mid thigh. So, the only thing that was added um what that wasn't there before was the spaghetti straps are not permitted. If you scan it down a little bit for me. And then um we remove um 11 and 11 um basically said the um principles individual schools are expected to use the state and district dress code, but principal at each school reserves the right to determine the appropriate dress for their school. We remove that. So we can have consistency from school to school. All right. Page 54. We've added the bottom of page 54 under search of an individual refusing to participate in a search may result in a disciplinary action. Page 56. Um at the request of access and opportunity, we removed um A2S. um we
116no longer have the um A2S programs, but I do believe we still have the um keeping it up program um that's um out of Edenville and A2S was um the alternative to suspension centers. um towards the bottom of page um 56 um under restorative practice we've um updated the language um to align with the international institute for restorative practices. So um it states restorative practice a researchbased approach that to that positively impacts behavior and student climate creates a sense of belonging, minimize harm and support student learning while cultivating students. practices are designed to uncover the root causes of conflict and create a safe space to facilitate conversation to minimize harm, repair relationships and identify solutions. Um towards the bottom it also states um restorative practice conflicts resolution circles with a person harm and a person
117who caused harm. Some restorative methods may include um community building circles and conflict conflict resolution circles. Page 62, we've added a section um titled the use of micromobility devices. OCPS permits students to park microability devices on board property during school hours. Riding is not permitted at any time on board property, including sidewalks, courtyards, athletic fields, courts, grass areas, or other pedestrian spaces on campus. Detached vehicle batteries are not permitted inside school buildings at any time. To protect the health, safety, and welfare of students and staff, parking micromobility devices on board property is subject to the following rules. Upon entering board property, students must dismount all micromobility devices and walk them to their designated area. At the end of the school day, the student must walk their micromobility devices outside of board property before mounting. OCPS
118is not responsible for the loss, theft, or damage or microobility devices brought onto board property. Students who violate these rules may be subject to disciplinary action and may lose the privilege of bringing personal transportation devices onto board property. For the purpose of this code, a micro mobility device includes bicycles, ebikes, scooters, skateboards, hoverboards, and slimmer devices used for individual transportation. An ebike is an electric bicycle with a motor not exceeding 750 watts and a maximum assisted speed of 28 miles per hour. We do understand um um this was added for cabinet's recommendation. Um the information may change due to pending legislation. All right. And page 68. So on page 68 under our early re-entry process, what we did, we we kind of flip-flop steps three and four to accurately um say what happened. So in
119step three, the um re-entry plan is submitted to um the superintendent or designate um for approval before the student is permitted to return to the student zone school or the other school as deemed appropriate um by OCPS. Um if approved, the director of discipline would notify the parent or guardian. And that's step three. On step four, there is a re-entry meeting um with the school, the parent um anybody the parent wants to bring um OCPS staff, contracted veterans or volunteers and that this um re-entry meeting um the student um goes they have a contract stating they're going to um abide by the code. So we just made sure that step three occurred before step four in the code last year. I think it was reversed. So this is going to conclude um our updated recommendations
120to the code. Thank you, Dr. Joiner. All right, Dr. Vasquez, should I take um comments and questions from the board at this time? All right, starting with member Gallo. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, so I do have just a few questions. Um, on the disability, um, and I've had this conversation before, so I know the answer, but for the benefit of others that may not know the answer, um, I've always struggled with referrals with children with disabilities. Um, and I know that we they go through a manifestation hearing and all that, but we have to send the cessor form or the reform up to Tallahassee. So can you just briefly explain which form has identification like attached to it to where the state would be housing that information and then which does not have any
121identifiable traces that gets reported to the state because I know that there is a portal that this information goes into. >> Okay. John John can recite it off the top of his head. >> So rule 6A-1.0017 is the Cessor rule and the Cessor rule requires the reporting of incidences up to the state. That is the portal that does not have the student identifying information. It what is reported up there is incidences and it says that we have to report incidences regardless of whether or not it is the child has a disability or not. What we do under cessor is we take into account the child's disability when we render our punishment. Right? So that's all contained within the cessor rule. The one that gets identified and this comes out of Marjgery Stman Douglas and the
122the policy choices made by the legislature after that is the threat management portal. That's the one where we have to identify who the student is and the threats that are that are made. And what that does is to help give a sort of like a unified look at all schools that this student may attend to say okay this student has previously engaged in threatening behavior so they can make sure that they are dealing with that appropriately but with respect to cessor that is not that's incences not the identity of the student with respect to threat management that's the identity of the student. >> Thank you. I appreciate that John. Um, so I guess my next question would be if it's a cessor offense, which means it has to get reported. It went through the threat
123management team. I can think of an incident recently that this happened and then we determined it not to be a cause of manifestation. It went before the magistrate. The magistrate said yes, it is. It was um the incident was caused by manifestation. What happens? Is the incident with the identifying information still housed up at the DOE or because it was truly a manifestation that can you pull that back or do we send something up to the DOE and say it went through an arbitrator or whatever and it was found to be manifestation and then that's linked to whatever we sent up to the DOE. How how does that happen? So, the mechanics of this and how this actually works, I I don't get into the day-to-days in my particulars. And uh Sarah and I'm looking
124at Sarah and Alivia and they're looking at me like they don't get into those particulars either. >> Um I would recommend that if we have an overturning by by a hearing officer that says something was a manifestation and contrary to what we said it is that we would reflect that up to the state portal. Okay. And I think that should be a practice that we do that like I said that is a situation that we have rarely encountered. >> I understand. >> Yeah. But >> thank you. >> Yeah. That would be great if we could just follow up and let them know that it was a you know manifestation. Um when we do manifestation hearings do is like the IEP and the BIP and everything that's associate or the 504 if it's a 504 that's
125associated with the student. Um during that hearing, is that reviewed to ensure that the IEP and the bit plan was done with fidelity? Like do we look at that? Do we look at the IEP and the BIP plan to ensure like the school did follow the IEP, they are following the bit plan um when we do those manifestation hearings? Because I hear from parents a lot is like, "Yes, it was a manifestation, but this happened because the IEP wasn't being followed or there was a sub that day and the IEP wasn't being followed or the BIP plan wasn't being followed." Like, that comes up a a lot when I have ESC parents reach out to me and their child's in trouble. >> Sure. So, there are um Sorry, that wasn't on. There are two questions
126that the manifestation team must uh determine when they're looking at whether the child's disability is related to the behavior. And so the first question is is it directly and substantially related to the child's disability? I mean that's where we're going to look at teacher input. We're going to look at grades. We're going to look at um any evaluations they've done. We're going to talk to the psychologist about what what that typically for that type of disability. How does that manifest in students? Does it manifest in this student that way particularly? And so that's where we're looking at the whole child for question one. To answer your question is question two where we ask is the is it the school district's failure to implement the students IEP or 504 which resulted in this behavior. Um and
127sometimes um I'd say rarely but sometimes the answer is yes because it could be something where there was a substitute on the day that the behavior happened and they didn't know that they had to do these five calming strategies before the student reacted. So, it is rarer that question two is a yes because our schools do try to implement IEPs and 504s with fidelity. Um, but it does happen once in a while. >> Okay. Thank I'm just glad that we're we're looking at that. So, I appreciate that. >> Absolutely. >> And then on 54 when we're talking about the backpacks um and maybe this is a Mr. Pamarini question, but I thought that if a child was on our campus or on one of our buses that we didn't have to ask permission to search
128their backpack, that we could automatically search their backpack. Has that changed to where now we have to get permission or did I have that wrong? >> No, no. This this section was more to inform students that a refusal to consent to the search could lead to disciplinary issues. With respect to student searches and backpacks, we have to have what's known as reasonable suspicion under the law. If we have reasonable suspicion to believe they have contraband or a weapon in there, we can institute the search. It's not the probable cause standard that police would have. It's a little bit lower standard. But this consequence is just in there to in fully inform students because they can make the argument, well, I didn't know that if I didn't consent to the search that I could be subject
129to discipline. This is making sure that they explicitly know that if they don't consent, they can be subject to discipline. >> But do I guess so my question is if we have probable cause, we don't need their consent, correct, to search them. >> If we have reasonable suspicion, we do not need their consent to search. But sometimes kids will just say, "You're not going in there." >> And if they do that, >> then there's consequences for it. >> Fabulous. And then my final question is about the restorative practice. I'm a huge fan of restorative practice when implemented correctly. Um I've seen the research and the results that it can provide for our students, especially with um I never get that word right, but doing the offense again that recetivism. There it is. Um so I
130guess my question is how are we going to implement that? I did see that some of the strategies that were listed that we that they would utilize, but are we going to ensure that we give the teachers the tools that they need and more importantly the training that they need in past to ensure that they can administer the restorative practices? >> Yeah, >> great question. >> Yes. So, thank you for that question. Um we do require that someone at the school in the administrative level is trained in restorative practices and that's a every three years it needs to update and we used to do that on a canvas course and this year we implemented face-to-face training that we also invite teachers to which is voluntary training and so our numbers have increased significantly in the
131amount of people trained but every school is required to have someone trained in restorative practices >> and that follow-up question chair >> yes >> and that would typically be an administrator ator or would administrators send like their past teacher because that seems like that would be the person that would need to be trained. >> No, because it's a uh consequence uh part of the code of conduct where it can be a part of a consequence or part of a restorative program. It has to be an administrator. >> It does. But can the administrator request that the past teacher get >> absolutely yes. >> Okay. Thank you. That's all my questions. Okay. >> Great. Thank you, Member Delo. Member Fant. Thank you, Madam Chair. Uh, one thing that I was noticing, um, the at the end
132of all the levels, so page 12, 16, 23, and 31 have those little boxes that show all the different areas. Um I know we uh we've the district is discussing you know budget area cuts and uh the such and um the safe coordinators. Okay. So I'm trying to find one of the pages so I can just read from it. Uh let me go to 31. Okay. And it says in there it will say where is it? I can't find it. Anyways, it says oh here we go safeguidance referral. Um so if that position is removed would then that would need to be removed from here. Correct. Or is there >> maybe that's a different individual that would be? >> Yeah, we will find out what individual will replacing the um safe person to so we
133can refer the student to that person. >> Okay, perfect. Just a thought as I was looking through it. Um as far as dress code again, can you explain to me um because I think it's good. you know, our dress code, the policy all looks good, but schools enforcing it is the part that I always feel like we have um some trouble uh with. Um how is it enforced at the school level? And yeah, I I can madam chair, may I? So, we have this conversation all the time. Um first of all um schools have varying staff that are available or not available uh to enforce the code the the dress code. Um, and so we remind we remind the administrators like if I'm at a school and I I'm seeing students that are, you know,
134with you could see their midrift, I will say something about the code, but they have a very difficult time enforcing it because they don't have personnel available. And a child may come in in the morning and have a jacket and then it gets hot. Well, not even change. It gets hot and then they take the jacket off and now they're out of dress code. Um, which is why I was looking for a a little bit more leeway um in some of the items in the code. But I do recognize like for example um the spaghetti straps, right? Well, one could, if you don't believe the definitions that they put in there, you could have somebody coming in with a bikini top because technically, right, the bikini top would have straps and if you're not worried
135about the midrift and so, um, it really is, um, difficult. We're going to work with our administrators to be more consistent. Um, one of the things that we have found in some cases is that schools have added things to the dress code that students can't wear maybe a certain type of shoe or students can't wear jeans. And so we've that's why we've taken away that statement so that it is more consistent. Uh, and we'll work on the training. Um, and you have, you know, teachers that care very much about the dress code. And then you have other teachers that I want the child in my class learning and I'm not going to address the the dress code because by the time the child comes back, they may have missed most of the period of the
136day. So, it's something that we're going to have to continue to to work through and have conversations. But, it is staff availability uh to enforce the dress code. >> Okay. And then by taking out the one line um how does that affect principles who or schools who have um put in place the uh uniforms they're still allowed to do that or is that is that something we need to just add there like schools may >> so we c we don't require you can't require a child to wear uniform any school can work through >> I didn't see number 10 you got it okay I missed that >> that's always an option that they can do. So, that's not that's good. No, I'm I'm glad that it it says it in there. I just wanted to
137make sure um that that wasn't being pulled out. And that is uh all I have for right now. Thank you. >> Member Vanos. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Member Bird. Thank you. >> Thank you, Chair. Um Okay. So, I'm gonna just um focus on the dress code for a moment. Um so, I understand that that there are concerns that, you know, girls, let's be honest, it's girls are wearing very revealing clothes at school. I understand that. I've I've heard it from a few employees. Um, but as member Ferrant said, this is this is really a enforcement issue and it's a school decision as well. I mean, as as the superintendent said, you know, a lot of them don't have the staff to do it and they've got bigger issues to worry about, right? Um, as they
138should. I mean, our our job is not to parent these children. If a if a par if a mother or father are okay with their daughter leaving the house wearing what they're wearing and we think it's inappropriate, it's I don't think that that's our job. I think it's our job to educate them. It's not our job to parent them. Um, and as as we're all sitting here wearing denim because we are in solidarity with not victim blaming women for how they dress and the effect that it has on other people's behavior. I think that's exactly what we're saying when we're pulling a girl out of class saying what you're wearing is distracting or is makes other people uncomfortable. I am completely against it. I always have been. Um I think our dress code was fine
139the way it was. We had the picture is exactly the same as it was last year. Um what it said before was tops had to have straps and um and clothing must cover the body from one armpit across to the other armpit and down approximately mid thigh. Um see the picture. Tops must have straps. Undergarments must not be viewable. Rips and holes need to be below mid thigh. That wasn't our that's been our dress code for the past several years. If that's not what's happening in schools, that's not because of the dress code. That's because that's the decision of the school or their enforcement. It's not that it's not in the dress code. I I strongly advise against doing anything with straps. If you guys all remember, we were having such an issue with, you
140remember the four-finger rule on the straps and the 2inch rule. It was a nightmare. And we heard from more parents of girls about finding straps on the top that were wide enough. And you it was such a thing that when we switched over to just the line tops must have straps. I must have gotten I got so many emails and so many pe people stopping me. Thank you finally for doing that and taking out the the four-finger rule and all that stuff. So I just I have a real problem with doing any of this. Um, even even adding in the midrift thing. I mean, have you guys been to a football game and seen the football players with their bellies hanging out? I mean, I'm just saying if we're going to be there's just so
141there's so many other things to be thinking about here. Um, and and I really think it sends the wrong message. And I don't want to see us pulling girls out of class until girls are missing learning when we're telling them that what they're wearing is not appropriate. I just don't think it's our place. I think that's a parent's place. And if the parent doesn't have a problem with it, then it's not our job to do that. Um, and that's just how I feel about that. And I'm very, very firmly feel that way about that. So, I would propose not making any changes. I think our dress code is fine the way it is. It's just it's school's decisions how they enforce it. And if parents at that school and staff at that school are having
142a problem with how the kids are dressing and it not being enforced, then I believe it's their job to bring it up to their administrators and ask for stronger enforcement if they want stronger enforcement. But I don't think that our code needs to be changed. Thank you. >> Thank you, Member Bird. Member Vanos. >> Thank you, Member Bird. I am in complete agreement. Um although I would say I'm not in agreement in that I actually don't think that the code is good as is. I think um and I think especially on this day, this is about not victim blaming for sexual violence. And we are doing that. We are making remember bird is right. It's making girls feel ashamed of their bodies, adding scrutiny to their bodies. And I don't I I just don't understand
143why we're doing this. I mean I mean let me just ask a question. Why did we add in spaghetti straps are not permitted? Like what was the reasoning behind that? >> I think Dr. Devasc mentioned um girls coming to school with um with with bikini tops on with with so if we add the spaghetti straps not permitted that would eliminate um certain type of tops there man where their their midrifts um are exposed. >> Okay. But if the midrift can't be exposed then they can't just wear a bikini top to school, right? Al >> okay >> undergarment shouldn't also be shown when you have on spaghetti straps I mean um their undergarments are being exposed >> well I mean what if a girl I mean what if a girl was wearing a a boat neck
144top and you could see her bra strap is that not allowed either I mean >> right what if they have a sports I There's I I don't I The more we add language to this, the worse it gets. I mean, it it's Let's Let's Yeah, we don't want to see your underwear and we don't want to see your private parts. I don't understand why we need more words than that. I feel like that covers what we really don't want to see. I mean, you know, if there if there's an issue, if if like literally someone walks to school, you know, walks into school wearing a bikini, we can talk to a parent about that. Or I would just say this. I mean, how many students do you see on the weekends like wearing a bikini
145around? Like, not that many. I I just I I the more words we add, the more I think we are bringing just judgment and scrutiny to girls. We're bringing judgment and scrutiny to different certain body types. And I think there's, you know, discriminatory practices, you know, racially as well. I I just I just don't I I I have a problem with all of this. I think we should simplify. We don't want to see our private parts. We don't want to see your underwear. Um I you know I have and there's I mean I'll give you an example of something that happened student this happened a couple of weeks ago. a senior, a senior who is showing up to school regularly to take her advanced math test um was sent away by the teacher for she
146was dresscoded because she could see part of her belly. So, she had to leave the class to go down to discipline to change and then had, you know, half the amount of time to take her test. This is a senior who's showing up to take her advanced math test. you know, this this this does not make any sense to me. I I don't know. Like, we're allow we allow students to be tardy and not literally come to class with with literally no consequence. But here, you know, we have people showing up to class, but we're sending them away because you can see their belly. This doesn't make, you know, there's there's teachers telling middle schoolers in the cafeteria that she can see their butt cheeks. Who's looking at this? Like, why are they looking for
147that? This is just inappropriate in every way. Um there was a a coach who told a student that um her shorts were too too short and it left nothing to the imagination. Like this is a problem with the people, not with the students. Like this is a student should not be forced to change what she's wearing for the comfort of a an adult or a boy who might be distracted. I think we have this is so problematic on so many levels. Um, you know, I will, so I have a big problem with this. I will also add in this makes no exception for sports. Um, and you know, there's sports practices. I'll give you an example. Track and field. It is common to run in a sports bra. Like, it's not because you're trying to
148show off anything. I'm 47. I mean, I wear a sports bra. I don't want anyone looking at my belly, but it's comfortable and it's hot in Florida. And that's just part of the sport. And I and we've have coaches telling girls that they cannot run in a sports bra. That's literally the uniform of the US women's track and field team and they're being told that they can't wear that in school to practice. So aside from the general dress code, I think it's also not right that this is also being applied to sports um to athletes. Ma >> Madam Chair, may I comment just so you can >> Yes. Um, so I just want to point out uh that the dress code takes in feedback from a variety of individuals and we and not that I
149want to bring this topic back up, but just as there are strong opinions teachers have about zeros and 50s, they have just as strong, if not stronger, opinions about dress code. And so they they will tell you they don't want the child in the class where they are distracting others. There are children who feel distracted or feel uncomfortable when body parts are showing. I'm not saying it's right. I can tell you that my direction to them was pretty much what you said. I don't want to see your underwear. I don't want to see your body part. When you bend down, I don't want to see anything I'm not supposed to see. And then there was feedback from a variety of stakeholders that don't necessarily agree with that. And so, um, I personally like the less
150is more, but that is not the feeling that our teachers have. Um, it they are sending them out for dress code violations. Um, it is not consistent. I think board member Bird was very accurate in saying that that's an enforcement issue at our schools. It's very difficult to monitor even from from a principal's perspective and given all of the issues they currently face just in monitoring safety, they're not going to pull somebody off that is maybe doing supervision to then be able to deal with the dress code violations. And so, um, what I would like to get a feel after everyone has spoken is, do you want us to just revert to the language that we had before? I do think that the language about schools being able to tweak it has caused some inconsistencies.
151I mean, I was at a school where students over the summer, you know, bought clothing and then they come to school the first day, come to find out that they changed the dress code on them without letting them know, and now these kids couldn't wear, um, what they had purchased over the summer. And so, um, we are planning to come back to you, but I just want to remind you that we have a very wide variety of families and teachers who are in our schools who may not share our individual preference for dress code. >> I I hear that and I appreciate that and I understand that they might may not share that preference, but I don't think that's appropriate to take it out on a student. like I don't like your comfort is not
152as important as a student. I mean, how do you think a girl feels when the first thing she walks into a room and someone notice makes a comment on her body? Like, do you think she's going to be able to focus for the rest of the day? I I just So, I I hear what you're saying. I know not everyone agrees, but I think we still have to think about the big picture. How is this impacting student learning? And you know you someone can ignore someone cannot look at a a a a girl who's dressed in a way that distracts you or that bothers you or that makes you feel uncomfortable. Just don't look at her. That you know like why why are we making the girl change? I I I think it's um and
153then I also did want to specifically also point out number six that um includes the word revealing. I I think that is uh I don't know why that word is in there and I don't think it's appropriate. >> Subject see through revealing our mesh garments. I think it is subjective. So personally I think more is less or less is more. Yes, I think less is more. I think we don't want to see your private parts. We don't want to see your underwear. And that's how I would uh that would be my opinion. Member Bird, it looks like you're back up again, which is I'm confused. Okay, thank you. I was That's okay because I didn't know. Members Alamica. >> Okay, that's all right. Member Douglas. >> Oh, okay. >> Okay. Well, >> okay. Um, >>
154I was going to talk about micro uh mobility. Uh, thank you so much for putting that role in. Uh, I appreciate that finally we make that decision about the the ebikes and the moped and all that. Uh, but uh my again that's the question that already asked what kind of consequences they could face. I know there's a level one level four but how does it look like? this. >> Thank you, speaker. >> So, we would have to go back. We wanted to put language in the code um until um to have something until it came from um legislation. Then we would come back and look at um how it would be what consequences um um if kids would receive. So we haven't really thought about the consequences if they um violated um this information. >>
155Okay. So So whenever >> so when we come back around >> we can we can add something to the code um um for consequence. >> All right. Okay. Uh I just wanted to say uh regarding the restor restorative uh practice I I I agree that when it's well implemented it it it's fantastic. However, when it's not it becomes a huge problem and um and I I I really do appreciate that you actually do trainings for teachers to uh is that voluntary or is that mandatory training? >> Voluntary. Okay. Because um anyway, all right. Um do we have any videos that we can put online maybe that the teachers can look at if they don't want to come to the training or something so that at least they can look at or or staff people. >>
156Uh currently we do not um have that uh available. Uh we have the training that we offer um the administrators, but staff could research if there are um you know other resources that can be uh shared online with teachers so that they can at least understand or better understand the value of restorative justice >> and and it has to follow the same training the same because I'm I'm sure online you have a plethora of things about restorative practice that may not really uh um adjust to what we're teaching our teachers. So um just wanted to make a point of that. Um the other thing is about uh the dress code. um as a teacher in a classroom. Um I'm just giving you my experience and I have taught elementary through high school and I just
157want to say, you know, we don't want to see I I I am not the police and I'm not the parents, but I really don't want to see body parts. I really don't. Okay. Uh uh sorry about that, but I really do not want to see body parts. And I think we have clothes in order for us to be, you know, there's a certain way, you know, modesty to be dressed. Um, we do not have to show any bellies or any thighs or any high whatever else out there. Uh, I I do remember having boys coming into my room. And it's not only girls. I'm talking about boys with their pants down. And you can really see down there. I I'm like seriously I do not need to see that you know you you no
158I mean we have to have a dress code to make sure that we dress modestly and everybody's comfortable okay we cannot just turn our eyes because oh you don't have to look at it yes I do it's right in front of me what else do you want me to do I have to look at it I have to look at the kid so um you know again controver controversy Yeah. Uh, but I do not want to see body parts. >> Thank you, Member Douglas. Member Salamanca, you're back. >> You're not back, but you backed up where >> as a female student that was in these classrooms during the four finger rule. It was incredibly distracting for the students to be pulled out to not get I mean I I remember at the beginning before school
159started we would show up to class and like three of my friends would be missing because they never made it to class that morning because they got dress code and it was it was very um disruptive. I also remember being particularly traumatized by how many times male teachers would be like bend over show me the thing like like all the testing of like what like put your hands up so like your stomach is showing or not and I hear student you're just like it's just uncomfortable because there's all these weird tests on like is it short enough long enough and they'll be like well let's like do all the different tests that they used to have on like bend over to see if you can actually see under your shorts. or dress and it's like
160that's just so inappropriate and truly it it was not uncommon for it to happen in middle and high school and um I think as a from from the student perspective um one of the hardest things and I have that now when I visit our schools um is the hypocrisy of the dress code because if we are saying we are trying to teach our students how to dress in a professional educational setting. I understand. I think that is valuable to an education and that that there is real value to that. Like wear what you would wear to work or to like a place. So I I get that lesson, but you can't do that when our own teachers and staff are not dressing like that. But there are no accountability or standards or dress code for
161our teachers and staff. And so when folks that you as a student you're getting all this discipline and all these standards and your own adults in the classroom are not following this like there there's some qu I'm not saying teachers are wearing um the same as the students but there are still some teachers that do dress inappropriately. Um, and I just I I think there's this part of of the hypocrisy that comes with then like teachers do sometimes wear PJs to school as well and >> PJ sometimes PJ day but it is and so and again it is so arbitrary on what you consider acceptable or revealing. it is so dependent on I mean some folks will say you know I don't want to have a career in an office in a nineto-five I want
162to go to Hollywood and that's going to be my job and so I'm going to dress differently then so there's all kinds of things that go into it so I always had a hard problem obviously female students get overwhelmingly picked on for dress code um so like I I'm with some of our board members here saying you should have full coverage right Um, and we shouldn't see things that we're not supposed to see like your undergarments. But I think less is more here. Um, especially if we are only enforcing it once again on students and not even on the adults in the room and and it is the adults that are honestly like why are you staring? It is it is truly weird. Um, the last thing and maybe this is a question for you
163John. Do we need a religious carveout for head stuff here? >> Yeah, you in my opinion you do. The case law uniformly gives students the right to wear religious uh um clothing and certain school districts have been sued when they not allowed such religious clothing. So I feel more comfortable having it in here than not. >> Okay. Yeah. I was going to I I'm sure that there's language out there. I don't know what that language needs to be, but I did pick up that um there's probably some legal carveouts that we need for religious purposes. Um aside from that, everything else makes sense. I it's it's it's truly it's a hard one. I think that we have so many things to worry about. It is unfortunate. dress code is all over the place in in
164our schools, but um enforcement is just not consistent and enforcement overwhelmingly falls on on female students and uh it unfortunately gives adults in an already place where there is a power dynamic power over something that is just unnecessary um I believe like to to the learning environment. But um I believe in in the parents rights to be able to say you can or cannot wear that. And I don't think it's it's the role of our teachers to be deciding what is appropriate or revealing because that is very arbitrary. So that that's kind of our standard dress code as well. Okay. Member Salom. Um well all right let me before I dive into dive into the issue of maybe what's appropriate and not appropriate. I just I I looked at um uh shoes and I don't
165think we have a definition for shoes. Um, I I did notice that one of our schools has a definition or excuse me, um, a restriction on K through eight. Uh, that they their shoes they can't wear thong shoes. I am so sorry. I don't know what happened here. That might help. um they I believe they can't wear thong shoes um or uh or backless shoes. Um so I I bring I bring the shoe subject up because uh when I was in high school I came to school with um shoes that didn't have they were sandals and they didn't have soles. And um I got I got called into the principal's office for violating the code. And um I did point out to him that the code did not require souls and we we had an
166interesting debate. I I was pretty much an ace student so I probably got away with more than most. Um but we did agree that I I would not wear soulless shoes again as long as we made sure that we included in the dress code that shoes had to have souls. So all these years later, I just kind of feel like since we're going to be specific about thong shoes that maybe I think it's a good idea to wear soles because it's a safety issue. And so for what it's worth, I'd like to see a definition that includes shoes should have souls just in case we ever find ourselves with um uh somewhat obnoxious um high school teenage girl who wants to debate the point. But soulless shoes are not safe, right? Because you could step
167on glass. You could >> No, I said without a soul, >> right? But that the definition is that sho shoes shall be worn at all times and should be safe in the school environment. >> Oh, >> and the following shoes are not acceptable. >> Okay. Okay. I think you got it covered. >> I do. That is exactly why I wanted to take out the statement about principles being able to make it more restrictive because there are some that don't allow certain types of shoes. >> Right. Exactly. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for So I can walk away from that not feeling like I should have known better. Um, with regard to clothing that whether it's whether it's our girls or our boys, I do think that I think social norms when it comes to clothing
168have have changed over time substantially. Um, but I still think that there is a general norm. Um, and at at this dis we will all disagree on what that norm is. um which is is somewhat obvious. I think that member Salamanca, you know, your point about what is appropriate attire. I I was I was sitting here and I was nodding and and agreeing with you that I think part of what we are trying to instill and teach our students is what's socially acceptable. And and I do agree that it shouldn't be two different standards for boys and girls. Um but I I I also to your point that if we have a standard and and we have teachers that aren't comply complying with that standard, I have a huge issue with that because you can't
169set a standard, you can't be a role model and and I think teachers that's a part of what they are. They should be role models. our children should look up to them and aspire um to be like them. So, uh, if we have that problem, um, I'm I could see that from the superintendent's face that I know she was would not be okay if she was aware. I'm pajamas when it's pajama day and I did go to school on pajama day, my, you know, sleeves were down to here. My pajama pants were down to my ankles. So, um, that would be entirely different than lingerie. Um, but so I I don't have that issue with pajama day when the pajamas are I'm I'm afraid to use the word revealing, but I don't know what the
170other word is. But I I I think that we have to set the line somewhere. We're drawing the line at a minimum at private parts um and underwear. For me, I would draw the line at at a different level. And my line would be that it would be the entire I don't I I don't know. I just I don't know exactly how we define it. And that's why I thought when um member Bird took this on, I think it was your first year in office. I I remember you were sitting down there for whatever reason. I remember exactly where you're sitting and I remember how important this was to you. And I I thought we did a pretty good job landing the plane at the time. So I I think for me I'm I'm good
171with where we are. I will have an issue if we don't have some sort of a standard. I have a huge issue if we have male teachers or even female teachers asking students to bend over. I mean I think it should be readily apparent whether it's a problem or not. And if you have to ask somebody to bend over, then it's not a problem. If you're asking somebody to bend over, then I think we need to be looking into why. Um, and so that's that's all I've got to say on that. If that's at all helpful, >> yeah, >> please I'll jump in. Um and so I do think that um teachers have become a little less intrusive in asking about bending down and stuff just because of what's happened since you graduated what five
172years ago. No. Uh 10, right? Yeah. Yes. So, I do think that they're not I mean, and in fact, I think that's why we see some of the inconsistencies is because they don't want to be blamed for saying something um that could be misconstrued. Um, we do have in the in the teacher contract about wearing professional dress. Um, anything that would go beyond what's in there would have to be bargained. Um, I will tell you that principles do address if teachers come in and they are um dressed in a manner that could be, you know, that they're exposing body parts. Um, and sometimes that's primarily women. Um, but they don't, you know, so much go if they're pajamas. And I'll be honest with you, I haven't seen teachers in pajamas except if it's pajama day.
173So I I I have not seen that. But I have seen teachers that, you know, I kind of pause and like, you know, you went to school, but but I I don't know the circumstances and so I try I try not to judge. Um, so I do have a question of the board because we really are >> Yeah. >> very very far apart. Um, and so I gather, and I could be wrong, that the majority of the board was um, in alignment with the code of conduct as it was prior to the changes that we have proposed. Um I know that there's at least one board member that would like to make it um uh less wordy. I'm not sure that the majority of the board is there. And so as the team goes back
174um I would like direction regarding do we want to keep it the way it was because there's very minimal changes that was made or do you want us to um take a stab at the nobody parts. So um since I am queued up uh let me respond with my thoughts after after that. So we did spend a lot of time on this where we are. I do not I cannot recall having a complaint from a single parent in the seven years I've been here about attire of our students or the dress code and I think that's pretty remarkable. Um so to the saying if it ain't fixed if it ain't broke don't fix it I think we're in a good place. Um, I I do agree that if all of us picked our perfect place,
175we wouldn't be here. I'd be, you know, more restrictive except for Yeah. Well, the shoe thing that was a long time ago. Um, and others would be less restrictive and we could debate this for a long time. My preference would be to with the exceptions of a of a few things that have been brought up, I would leave it where it is since it hasn't doesn't seem to be creating a problem. That's my That's my personal um weigh in on this. Next up is member Gallo and I think we're going to want um feedback from each member of the board on this issue before we move on. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Um so my thoughts like I I used to get calls about my daughter all the time. One time she was actually wearing
176my clothes. So that's like are you kidding me? That's my tank top. Like come on. >> Oh god. >> Um, talk about an awkward conversation. Just the AP calls you to tell you that your daughter's out of dress code compliance. And my response was, "Yeah, she's wearing my clothes." Anyways, that was a funny story. And and he didn't know how to respond. He started stuttering. I kind of felt bad for him. He's a friend of mine, so it's okay. Um, you know, I I hear what everybody's saying about um about we don't ever want to body shame a woman. We don't ever want um a girl to feel like that she's body shamed. Um and I'm not I'm not a big fan of the of the spaghetti straps because it is so hot in Florida.
177And as long as you're wearing spaghetti straps and the rest of you's covered I I mean I understand maybe not tube tops because I do see a lot of tube tops at school. Um but some of them are like long. They're not showing anything. So, I don't know if that should even be an issue, but I'm not like if you have a spa spaghetti strap and your a little bit of your bra showing. You can't go out in public without seeing that. Like, you can't go to Target or anywhere without without seeing that. Um, and I do think that it's a hard for it's hard to enforce because I I'm at schools and I see how kids are dressed and it is it's I mean schools would literally spend their entire day enforcing these dress
178codes and there would be a lot of learning loss and so I'm not I'm not okay with that. And then I know that cheerleaders get special dispens they can wear theirs but their skirts are short. Like their skirts are I mean I know they have things underneath them but they're very very short. So what kind of message are we sending that oh well if you're a cheerleader you can do it because it's a uniform but you can't if you're not a cheerleader or if you're in and have if you seen some of the dance uniforms swim team. Um, so I just I I do think that we need to be careful and I think like if you look at men when like especially under six on mesh shirts, jerseys, football jerseys are mesh. Are we
179can you not wear a football jersey to school now because that's technically would be considered mesh material. No, it's not. Well, I guess if it's not your team, it's distracting. Um, but so I do think that we need to be careful. I do think that less is more. And like you have boys that wear these long tank tops that have like these armpit holes that literally go like down to their shorts. Are we not going to let them wear those? Like according to this policy, they wouldn't be allowed because that's not armpit to armpit if you can look through the armpit. Like if you're if you're looking through >> and you can see it. And so, um, I don't know. I I do think less is more. And I think that if we said, "We
180don't want to see anything inappropriate." I understand teachers are probably concerned. I don't necessarily like going on campus and seeing how some of these kids are dressed. Like, I'm like, "Oo." Um, I don't I don't always like how my kids dress sometimes. And so, but they're adults and they get to dress the way that they want to. And I don't see when I'm on campus a lot of teachers not dressing well. Um, you know, I see a lot of them wearing like skirts like, you know, like squirts or skirts like you would golf in or play tennis in. I do see a lot of them wearing that. But if you're in elementary school and you're on the ground with kids and it's hot. So, I don't know. I do think that that less is more
181unless we just want to, you know, implement dress codes across across the county, which by the way would save a ton of like as a parent, I would have so welcomed dress codes because taking my kids shopping and fighting to what they could and couldn't wear was a real Yeah. was a real pain. Whereas uniforms, they are what they are. But I know that that's an um that that that's not going to happen. But that that's just my two cents on the dress code. >> Yeah. So you're not comfortable with remaining the way it was. You'd like us to revise it so that it's not this before the what we had last year. >> I'm fine with how we had last year. I haven't gotten not one complaint from a parent. >> Yeah. Okay. Thank
182you. >> Okay. Um member Felder. Thank you. As a teacher, even if it was seventh period, if you're out of dress code, they used to call me the dress code lady. The whole school called me that because I felt like we are an educational facility and we're in the business of teaching across the board and I wanted my students to understand the difference uh to what was appropriate and what was inappropriate. Now some of my students and they they made a very valid point. We had some PE teachers and they would say to me, "Miss Felder, is that appropriate?" I say, "Listen, that's PE. They're going to wear shorts. They have to be out in shorts." Then I also had some male teachers used to say that uh some of the girls with the very
183very short dresses that would sit on the front row. Some of them would not have underwear on. Oh, baby, I'm going be transparent. I ain't going to hold nothing back. And he said, "Vicki, you know," I said, "Okay." So, I I was a real strict I was one of those teachers that they knew they would tie something on themselves when they came in my classroom because I would send them right back out. So, Miss Fell got I said, "I don't care. This prayer." I said, "I don't care. You're inappropriately dressed." However, but then you may have a heavy student that may have on clothes and if that's all they can afford, it may be tight, you know, and it may, you know, look um seductive, but that's all that child can afford. So, I think
184you just you need to use wisdom as you deal with children with dress codes because some some boys you you know those those slides I hated them because I knew that they were it was going to be hazardous for them in the long run because sometimes they would fall and slip and then we get sued as a as a district because they fail because they didn't know how to walk in those slides. And some of those people, the guys had them because they couldn't afford uh certain things. I had a little girl in my classroom. She um uh it was cold and it's not normally cold in Florida, but you know, sometimes we get 30 40°ree weather. And she had on shower shoes. So I asked her, I said, "Baby, what size shoe you wear?"
185She told me. I said, "You like Chucks?" She said, "Yeah." And the next day I bought her a pair of Chucks. I bought her some black Chucks so she could remember there was a black chuck. I gave it to her. So she liked the Chucks and she said, "Miss Felder, I appreciate this." I said, "Baby, I I just want you to be comfortable." And she said, "Those are the only shoes she had." So I couldn't send her out of my classroom with shower shoes. I just bought her some shoes. And of course, for to thank me, she slaughtered a deer and bought me some some deer sausage for Christmas. But I, you know, that's what she could do. She was a hunter. But I'm just saying I think we should keep a dress code. But
186I'm also I'm glad we don't have the four fingers across. And sometimes, you know, spaghetti straps sometimes children that's all they have. My concern used to be with those vicious leggings that were so so tight. God, it was so vulgar looking. And I remember, I know we don't do this now, but I remember at an Edgewater game, they put the child out and the parent cuz they both had them. They say, "You can't come to the game like they inappropriately dressed." And I was like, "Oh my god." So sometimes we do take it a little far, but I just think if we could, you know, we I I trust that we should be able to make basic judgment. It is Florida and it gets very very hot here and um I think I would never
187tell a kid to bend over. Let me see. That's wretched. I would never do that. But I know one of my students transferred to LA uh and she she wrote me and said, "Miss Fell, they have no dress code here. We can wear bikinis to class." I said, "Oh, we can't do that in Florida. I don't care. We are by the beach. You can't wear bikinis. You have to fully dressed." So I think that I would be concerned with just are you covered properly? Do I don't I don't see your body parts and you know you're dressed appropriately. But again, I think when I think about body shaming, I think with some of those heavy chicks like me and the clothes might not fit loosely and to tell them, you know, this is the best
188they can do. This is all they have and to send them out. It may be short cuz they don't they can't pull it down because they're too fat or whatever. I I think that makes them uncomfortable. At the same token, I am also considerate of our male teachers and male administrators. You know, they're men. You know, some of these girls, it's it's just inappropriate. So I believe we need to keep a dress code. But I think we should just use uh reason and rationality as we deal with what is appropriate and what is inappropriate because children can wear things that are revealing. And I just think I and I would use the example to them and they just holler. I said, "Okay, tomorrow I'm coming in here with a teddy." They said, "What?" I said,
189"I'm going to be have neck. I'm going to dress like y'all dress tomorrow." Well, Miss Po, I said, 'Wh you dress like that. Why can't I dress like you're dressed? But I just think that we need to use wisdom and some things you can look at a kid, a child, and determine that this is the best that they got and let them stay in class so they can learn. You know, some children are doing stuff that they know they should not do. Then you have parents who come and cuss out administrators and tell them that you don't buy their clothes, I buy their clothes, and this what I want them to wear, they going to wear it. And my answer to them would be then you school them, you educate them at home because we
190have a dress code. So I am a firm believer in dress code because I saw it. I lived with it as a teacher and I think children need to know the difference between what is appropriate and what is inappropriate. Notice I did not say what's right or wrong. Said what's appropriate and what is inappropriate. Thank you. >> Thank you member Felder. Member Fant. I won't drag this on. Um I think the way it was before is just fine. I think it's very clear. It's really just the enforcement of it. Um that I see the kind of issues that we have in in school. Um it's really just the egregious ones where you're walking in and there's actual like the shorts are so short that the butt cheeks are right there. Um if a boy wore
191shorts like that, we would call them out on it. Um, but boys don't typically walk around with really short shorts on. Um, and if they do, they they shouldn't be, and we should call them out on that. And um, it's really just common sense. And I if it if a teacher has a question like, okay, is that or isn't it inappropriate? Like, don't worry about it. But if a kid walks in and they're like ready for the club, it's just politely and maybe discreetly. I think the other thing that uh I hear a lot from uh the the board table is that I think what people don't want is for the child to feel shamed in front of the class and being called out in like, "Hey, what are you wearing and I'm writing you
192up right now?" Like there's ways to handle it. And whether it's, you know, as soon as class is over, you've taken your test and you say, "Hey, can you come real quick?" And, you know, do you have something else you could wear that really isn't appropriate and I'm going to have to write you up or can you just call your mom real quick and have her bring something or run to the closet and have, you know, put something else on. But when we do it out of kindness and love and we show kids respect, they'll understand. There's an understanding. It's just when it is done out of like >> Yeah. Like there's just and I agree. I think there's teachers that they get in the the role of they have some authority and then they
193want to use it and um I think every kid has kind of gone through that at some point and um so it's just common sense and I I like the way that it it was. Maybe that last thing if Dr. Vasquez, if your team is seeing that there's some inconsistencies across the table and you want to remove that last line out, um I would be fine. I think it's number 11 where it was like they have discretion. Uh if you're feeling like that's causing some issues, um I have no issues with that being removed. >> Thank you, Member Fant. Um member Vanos. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. I agree um with member Fant. fine with removing um number 11. Um my personal is a and as I listen to to people, I I really think
194the key is nobody wants to see private parts hanging out or um or underwear. Um but so my my first um you know I I would prefer that we do change the dress code to reflect what we actually mean. But if the rest of the board is not on board with changing the dress code from the original that it was before, um I would at least ask that we make an exception for student athletes um such that when they are like running or on swim team or whatever that that they can wear what is comfortable for them in their sport. Um and then third I would just ask that if we think about revisiting it or maybe we should even do it now is to have like some real student input on the dress code
195um like an actual organized group of students providing input. It'd be interesting to see the variety of responses. Um but I think it'd be important um and then I think the last point I would just make is if there is a continued strong desire like I would I mean I would like to see is it based in evidence? Is there better outcomes when students are wearing certain clothes? Um because if there's not, I don't know why we would do it. So, thank you. >> All right. Thank you, Member Vanos. All right. I think we're in clear place. >> All right. Thank you. Um Dr. No, member Fant. >> Just really quickly, um I think number five where it says specialized courses may require specialized attire such as sports uniforms or safety gear. So, I it's
196in there. That's from the previous one. I feel like that kind of reflects it. >> Yeah. The only Yeah. The only thing um it when we're specifically when we're talking about swimming, I mean, you put your swimsuit on when you're going to swim, >> but you you don't have to wear your swimsuit all day long, >> right? >> No, I know. Okay. But I just wanted I >> I just want to make sure we were >> No, I think that we weren't saying >> No, I think what board member Vanos is saying is different than five because it says that they could wear it with the principal approval like during the day and I think what board member Vanos is saying, let's say like if you're running and it's hot in Florida, um that the
197dress code will be different because they are probably going to run in runner shorts which are shorter or the tops that are I mean some of them are sports bra but some of them aren't sports bras but they look like a sports bra but it's hot so we can add um a line in there that um makes the allowance for the the sports that would be separate because five is the cheerleaders wearing the >> the uniforms >> okay >> that makes sense Okay. Anything else? What? Our next meeting starts at three. >> Food in the back. Okay. Well, this meeting uh is now adjourned. We'll see everybody for the communications meeting at 3.