001Our meeting is getting started. >> That's it. Just you. So, you're good to teach us all things again. >> Yay. Well, and thank you for having me back in the space. It's really great to see you all again. Um I'm continuing our work that we started last time. Uh we'll go over it a little bit briefly. Um just uh part of that three-part um sessions that we're going to do the first time we started with like board governance and effective boardsmanship. Um I am curious um have any of you had some needs since then and have any of those board standards kind of been on your mind? Um if you noticed anything about your board's behaviors or things that you were doing that might relate to it accountability, um vision directed planning, any of those
002things. Did you have anything in mind? >> Not yet. >> It's okay. Sometimes I know that when you learn about something, we talk about it that sometimes you might notice things that you didn't notice before. So I was just curious to see if there's anything that was in your mind. Um so we're going to go ahead and move on tonight to the next step. We kind of set that foundation and now we're going to talk about some of the tools for the collaboration and more governance um and effective boardsmanship. So, uh, we'll move on to the collaboration tools, um, communication protocols, board operating agreements, and that's going to kind of set us all up talking about the relationships and expectations before we move into the next step, which is the, uh, superintendent evaluation process. Um,
003we're going to do some scenario work because you really seem to like that last time and it's a really good way to kind of get the conversations going once we um, cover some of the material. So I'm going to briefly review just a few of the things highlights from last time if this would work for you. Um so just quick refresher on the board governance versus management. What's the board's role? Superintendent role. You know one challenge that all boards face is knowing where that governance ends and where management begins. It's not um just one board. It's pretty much all of them. uh your role is the direction and the accountability and not the operational decisions on the management side. Um when boards are unintentionally sometimes uh going over into that management side, it can create
004some confusion and undermine that leadership of the superintendent. Um communication protocols and having some board operating agreements and board superintendent operating agreements really helps to kind of keep those boundaries clear. Um, and also just learning about your roles and responsibilities too and and asking those questions and having scenarios and really thinking about, you know, what's my role in this scenario? What's the superintendent's role? Just thinking about it because often times you aren't going to know about the situation unless it comes up. If it doesn't come up, then you're not going to have experience with dealing with that. Um, so it's good to do some of those scenario works and um, and just talk about those things beforehand, being proactive and talking about what we can do if this happens. I was just going to ask
005if you could give some examples of when like it might be management stuff that, you know, we're approaching or seeing and >> common mistakes kind of. >> Yeah. Um, actually I was just going to ask you all about that. Where are some of those areas that you think those boundaries might be a little bit unclear based on what we see up here? I'm feeling budget's a big one. I was just sitting there thinking like, okay, what do we do when we see that Dory's not you are Dory spending money in ways that we don't necessarily think is appropriate or or the most efficient for our for our district? like what where's the line of we get to say hey I think you need to reconsider what you're doing or where are we going to be
006stepping over and stepping on toes in that and I'm assume that's where our agreements would come in our board agreements that like no that's a great yeah and that is often times where things come up because board members are like well how far do I dive into the budget how much do I really need to know and really what you want to think about is that if you start off in the beginning providing that um long-term vision like these are these are our priorities. These are the things. So you want to set up right from the beginning your role is to set that clear vision about how you want things to happen in history. And it's also making sure that if you're saying these are the priorities and you want to make sure that the
007budget is also reflecting and the distribution of resources is reflecting what those priorities and that long-term vision is. So you first of all your your role is starting the conversation and setting the direction and giving Dory what you want to happen and then when you set up those things and you start to work on the finances and talk about budget line items and where you want to put things in then it starts off to kind of come back and present this is what we're experiencing this is where our budget looks like I know it's the board's priority that they want to focus on this so we've transferred this much here you know we're going to work on this here so reporting out and giving you the information that you're looking for so that you can
008say, "Okay, what you're doing with the budget really aligns with what we said we want you to focus on." And so your part then is to look at what we presented and say in question, does does this align with what we asked to be done? Is this aligning with our district goals long term? Is this setting us in the right direction? Do I feel that money being spent here is valuable? or do I think that money over here isn't really what we said to prioritize and maybe we should shift that and then have those conversations. Does that make sense? >> Yeah. I was just thinking how's going to be the best way to have that conversation when if we were to see hey money is we we set this priority but the money is being
009spent in this way and I don't think that's the best way as a you know as a board we we think it needs to be shifted. How do we have that conversation if we were to say like hey I think we need to change where we're spending the money. I know, you know, you haven't been listening necessarily if that's the case. I'm just curious. It's gonna happen sometime. >> Yeah, absolutely. I think the best way to handle that is to just make sure you're having that open dialogue that you're following your operating. So if you do notice that first of all reading what's being presented to you and making sure you're prepared for that and then you have your questions kind of written down and then you think there might be some questions that might
010take a bigger answer and that other board members who you know find valuable to have answer that question and those questions ahead of time you know I've noticed this I would like you to talk about this a little bit more and explain to me why we're doing this because um and I think that that gives a heads up and then we can kind of talk about that in another meeting, but she's aware that those reasons why. And then you start saying, "Okay, I hear you and I don't necessarily know so that the public can see your question, that you're actually looking, that you're prepared, that you are still as I think I gave you a lot." >> Yeah. But if you have a concern about the budget specific more than just the budget, you know,
011like the end income balance, we know the auditor said it should be higher than it is. >> We can have a discussion about that and set a goal because we're not going to get there overnight, right? >> But we can get there over the next so many years so that Dory knows like, hey, I need to add this much in each year in order to get to where we should know that's going to be target. So >> yeah, I think >> but that would be a great discussion. >> Yeah. And being willing to have those conversations feel a little difficult when you have that stress and have that like I need an update. I do want to have these conversations and just be respectful to do it. I think you can find as you said
012find a way to say okay well that may not be what and then the whole that's excellent questions and conversation thank you um another kind of um with community engagement like where does that differentiate between governance and management? I mean I know like if if somebody comes to us with a problem you know kind of instruct the pathway is the correct pathway they should follow that kind of thing but are there other sneaky little bits of scenarios that you've experienced? I think before we get into those scenarios, I think the best thing to do, we are going to talk about communication and part of that idea is that one and that idea of like okay, do we have in our board superintendent operating? Do we have to worry about what is our communication happen? Who
013do we go to when this happens? Um what are the next steps? Not just talking about complaints, but just anything happening in the district. So we are going to talk about that a little bit further and and um there are some clear kind of things that we'll get into and I think that might answer your question if we get there and it doesn't and we have this conversation doesn't all right so going back to a quick refresher on the balance governance. I'm sure this looks familiar. Um we want to really kind of connect the tools that we're going to be talking about tonight with that balance governance. Um balanced governance is that idea that you kind of sit in between the two um extremes where you have disengage where you're saying yes and you're rubber
014stamping. You're not asking questions. You're not making sure things are aligned. You're not you know thinking about things beforehand. Whereas the other other side you're saying well um I'm noticing that the budget is being spent this way here. I've come up with a plan follow. Um, and then you're really aiming for that informed oversight where you're asking the questions and you're and you're making sure you're having those conversations. Um, and then strong boards really stay in that middle where you have that clear goals, you have the evidence, you're using data, um, you're talking about stories about why things are happening one way or the other, you're building that trust and accountability and those communication protocols and the operating agreements, those are really what helps you to maintain that balance. Um, and so tonight we're going
015to kind of look at those tools that can keep you in that middle ground. Any questions or recalls about the conversation about that idea in the middle? All right. So, let's start talking about those tools. These are the common tools that governance tools that are used um when we're talking about um effective boards and the board self assessment. Like we kind of covered those balanced governance standards and we talked about being an effective board and we talked about hey what areas are we doing really well in for these standards that are proven by research to have effects positive effects on student outcomes. You know what areas can we grow in? So you're having those conversations. You're talking about it as a board and you're saying okay these are our strengths. These are the areas that
016we could grow in. You're really being reflective about your own views not as individ not just as individual nurse but as a board as a whole. That's really that's kind of starting the conversation and it's a little bit of what we did last time where we're saying okay what are our top strengths and what are you know some areas we could probably work on and then when you know those things and have those conversations then you can work those things into your communication protocols and into your operating agreements so you can really start talking about okay well this is where we want to go these are our goals we're really strong in this area so maybe we could use our strengths to kind of leverage we're really good at communicating to each other so let's
017use that strength and let's talk out, where do you want to go and things that we want to do and um what we think is best. And then having those agreements, we talk about things collaboratively. Um and of course, other than the protocols and the operating agreements, we have the superintendent evaluation process. That process as a whole is really about relationship building. It's about accountability, which is standards that we have um talked about being an effective board and a building team together, the board of superintendent. That's really important. Talk some more about that. Um and also the idea that just being like what do we want to do and how do we act in meetings when things happen how do we talk to each other those expectations important there too. So having those conversations these
018are all things together that really help you have the conversations that help you to build relationships and help you build trust amongst each other and with each other so that you can get to the hard conversations and have those in respectful ways and that should be productive. Um, so, um, yeah, let's go ahead and talk a little bit about that. So, what communication practices off the top of your mind really help your board to stay in line? Is there something that you do or that you have in practice that you feel really helps? Tory communicates with us every Friday via email what she's been up to. I really have enjoyed that in the years because it helps us stay in tune all together as to what she's up to and what the district's up to
019and she usually lets us know like about things that are upcoming as well if we need to participate in she also lets us know when there's issues going on sometimes a text sometimes that just out to us I appreciate that Um, any other practices? >> I don't have any reaching out to something personally. I sent her a text her to talk. I don't know what everyone else does, but I would encourage everyone to do the same. >> Set something up. >> You know, when I first started, there were kind of a and I don't know that we've talked about it, but there were levels. There's the Friday report. It's like definitely the non-urgent. Then there's like, oh my gosh, this happened and you might hear that. Yeah, >> that is the immediate text and then
020>> that we don't reply to and then I love the thumbs up if it's good news because sometimes like you know >> can anyone get this >> we get a grand award like super exciting we awarded 850,000 through Selena so on something but that was um those kinds of things and then I was also told just through um my personal mentoring that if one board member knows it all board members need to know And that is really hard um because each of you have your different channels within the district and if I catch win that you know if Ray is hearing something or he's aware of these things and I'm like okay I need to make sure the rest of the board is aware of this. Um it just it is very it's I don't
021know if it's more just a small district thing. >> No it's not. No, but it is definitely more prevalent and it can be it can grow quite quickly in a small because those things one person knows and other people now know but then the rest of the board doesn't. >> Yeah. Yeah. But then those those levels of what is most urgent is urgent and we also had an agreement that if there is an emergency situation that I am dealing with Jen Resper would notify the board. What I'm loving to hear about this is that you've already established one of my next questions was like what are those expectations that you have of each other communication? Like does one person prefer a text or a phone call? Does one person prefer a weekly check-in versus a
022monthly check-in? Um if it's an emergency, what type of communication is it? And that changes how you as the board expect to hear from Lori. And so having those conversations in the beginning is really great to talk about those expectations. But it's great to have those things in place before something happens before the emergency happens. Then you're like, well, I didn't know that. How how am I being? Um I'm not I don't I don't look at my phone all day. You should send me an email, you know, if she doesn't know that ahead of time to expect that. So I think that's one of the big things I was going to say is that you know um what expectations kind of already exist for the board and as far as what communications um do you
023receive, how many do you receive, when do you receive and um difficulties and things like that. So that's really good. So where do you think that communication breaks down? And it doesn't have to be something that you work out here. Where do you think that there are points where communication breaks down? I don't know that most people here yet. I do think that handle emergencies very well engage with us. There's only been a couple of times that you've been like, "Oh, shoot. I should have told you like an hour ago." But it's never been like like way delayed. You know what I mean? like, you know, even if an ambulance comes on the ground for something, she's really good at letting us know right away. And most of the time, it'll never have anything to
024do with us, but she's really good at just letting us know, okay, this happened. It's okay, it's under control. Um, trying to think of times maybe that things haven't been going, I don't think I heard about that today. Yeah, maybe not necessarily when things happen, but just think about what are the possibilities right now. Sick, you know, what's the backup protocol if employees sick? Like who do you expect to do things? Do you have some who knows what those expectations are? So, I think that's kind of what we talk about. What are your where can things break down? If you're trying to deal with the ambulance on, you know, and you can't get to, is there somebody you say, "Hey, I need you to contact. I need that." Yeah. Even Adam >> from outside of
025here like just thinking outside the box. Like I know in some other places I've heard that it's leadership knows and then at some point you let everyone know but then new people come in but that's not brought up again. So I don't know if that happened but for sure like that would be a space where you know mid year somebody new comes in right and if you share that with the beginning they might not know the next train. I was like, I feel like we're already going through that a little bit. Just all the catch up we've had to do over the last few months with, you know, the things going on Roberts and just everything we've had to I feel like you've done pretty well and you've taken one bit at a time to
026get caught up on everything that's going on in the district. But definitely, like you said, a lot of new information. I think sometimes from a website I've noticed it's just a simple like okay we created online calendar like this and everyone is invited to that but then somebody new >> we change committees sometimes that happens too >> the committees are confusing three but that's a two am I going to be working with >> who's available who is available in my draws and it's like things flooding. Um, we had emergency water shut off. We had emergency school closure. We had, >> you know, those kinds of things. The community was hit with Pacific Power shut off during fires. Um, I literally I had this the post-it notes probably still there that was and all it said
027was board staff parent >> because I would immediately jump to parent message go oh got to notify the board like we're on emergency because a student tried to flush a t-shirt down the toilet and we're going to have to close the school. So, >> should we be expecting to hear about things like that? Because I'm just thinking like over the last year, I know there was times the school was shut down for the pipe le stuff. I'm trying to think if you notified us beforehand or if I got that through parent square. We usually go I usually delegate somebody to do the the parent square alert and then I'm notifying board and all staff. >> In district communication can break down if we don't have the communication. Something's going on high school staff's like what's
028going on? >> Oh yeah, for us to tell you guys have to go home because all the new all the kids younger >> homes go down. And so it's like those kinds of conversations are good to have be like okay we have this set up now what happens if you know we don't have like what's our analog response like do I literally have to drive to people's house so these are just kinds of things that you want to think about and you want to evaluate any communication protocol it's great to have these in writing as far as like okay what's the step where's the step what's the footstep in this class and sometimes you can't really come up with those sort of you realize oh you know we need to talk about that formal working
029session you make sure you put that on the agenda to have that conversation be like okay this happened like how are we going to deal with that in the future what are our steps in this kind of thing so just being able to recognize there might be flaws in those protocols and and experience really is the only thing that's going to teach you the best way so um what's solid and plus >> I guess with some of the emergency situations and I'm just going back to these last spring and I know we had I had debriefings with emergency staff um who all was involved um we had the accidental um um a student accidentally um had shot themselves >> and we had this horrible incident take place but the communication through that was confidential from
030who I knew alerting the board, but also for the board to know I can't give you the details on this. I'm I'm working through it, you know, you know, and in those kind of emergency situations, thank goodness, I can hand off to county and I was working closely with the deputies um sheriff and I was working closely with um sharing fire district and the WSD comes in and they do um the safe room for students and they provided two days of support and they were in constant contact with me. So there's this whole other support system out there that I don't even know now the board is aware of. Ray might be aware because the emergency side of things his experience work but there's a whole other infrastructure out there to support the district when
031there are those horrible incidences that you got to deal with. >> Yeah. And those kind of conversations too that you have the executive session kind of talk and things like that. So maybe it's a matter of thinking about okay the board's aware of some of these things. Maybe it's time we have new members we have people maybe we need to hold an executive session and talk about some of these things but let them know what they are those things that you want to keep kind of protected conversations because of safety and stuff like that. So think about those things too. Sometimes it's a work session. Sometimes it's something that might be protected session. But there's always something that happen. >> So side question. We're working on an emergency preparedness plan. Sean Kesper is on a
032whole county committee. Um, is is that plan get approved by the board or just presented to the board? I'm always confused on those things. >> Okay, I will find out because that's something we're working through right now that we're keeping on. But it might be one of those things suggest. >> Right. Because it's not public facing, right? >> Correct. >> Um I think it goes on the website. I think >> it's emergency operating procedures. >> Okay. Yeah. And you don't talk about the reunification site. >> There's parts I would say there's parts of it that are not too. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, when we're talking about like the things that we're talking about when you're evaluating a communication protocol and you have something in writing, really the key idea as I said before earlier
033is that one word, one voice. Um, public trust really demands and depends on you being um, consistent about your communication, especially when occur. Um, the superintendent typically serves as that district's um, main need spokesperson and makes those public statements. And really, it's up to the board members to just kind of support that and reinforce that official message and direct people within whatever pathways there are where they're going to find that official message rather than creating their own. then we have two different stories going out. But so we want to just keep making sure that whatever the superintendent said that's the official message. If I haven't seen it yet and I will say we'll do that. Um and then I'm going to look at myself so I know what the official message is. That kind of
034thing. That's the board's responsibility for that. Um you know just for example let's say that there's a bus accident injuries. Um the district office releases a statement. uh a board member is approached then the best response is something like well the district has shared uh has shared an official update I trust our team I'm grateful for everybody is please check the district website for the latest information that's an excellent response as a board member to reinforce that I trust you know whatever the district message is that's the official one and that's where I'm going to find my information he's asking me as well and keeps your goal really clear and reinforced is that consistent messaging without letting the laws with um what you think happened or what you heard from somebody else. Um another challenge
035that boards face is that idea of the serial meetings. Um I'm sure you've heard about this a lot. That idea where you know board member A talks to board member B talks to C next. Somehow you all kind of discuss something. Um but it's also that what is my name? And you know so it's not waters and that's why we like to have things in public discussion. So it's there's a record of what we said um and that it's very clear and everybody's on the same page. So even it can be unintentional with when communications are happening and when you're trying to share with each other about what's going on. We just want to use official channels. We want to skip those um group texts um and replys and just because it can potentially have
036you violating those publications laws. So you want to you want to think about that when you're thinking about your communication protocols as well. I think it's also good to take the mental note that the box stops with me. So if someone does have a conversation with you, that's okay. >> But you don't need to have that same conversation with someone else because before we've had board members who like to chew on things and I just learned that's where it stops. They just want to be heard. So you just let them be heard and then you that's where it is. It's just like that. It doesn't mean we won't have a conversation in a public meeting sometime, but don't be the one that keeps passing on. >> Yes. And also and also I think it's a
037good idea to also remind me too that you know if we do come to a point where we're discussing this and it comes down to you know I'm gonna be fully aware of what you shared with me and that you know that her help you but also it's you know I might have a problem with your and I might not be able to even vote. So that also and other people talk about those things. That's pretty much so where we try and let's chat it out together and open have work sessions and you know we have the opportunity to kind of on those things but together everybody has the same information because I'm just thinking like if it stops with you but they're like oh but I also want me to know right like you
038might not see anything but then that's just That's true. So I would always say I understand that it >> is there ever situation where one of us as a board member would need to notify the rest of the board. The chair might the chair might and I'm just trying to think is there like is there any ever any reason we might have to do that via text, phone call, email or is that just one of those things where we just really need to stick to the five board or bringing it up in public? >> It depends on the scenario to where the board chair has phone call. Okay. Yeah. And then you do that for like documentation reasons and all that. >> Very rare. >> I think once that happens overall though that's not something
039we would really need to get rid of for the most part. Like I'm just thinking if there was anything that if there was something that I knew or was concerned about that I saw going on like I I shouldn't notify you other than in a meeting or talking to right like there's not the reason why would be the two people that you would want to interact with. Well, then I would also caution of like surprises, right? Like being on public. So I always just go to Dory and I text him like, "Hey, I saw this or you know what can you tell me about this?" dealing with the news media. >> We had a social media post of somebody they were going to go to the news and I was like, I wonder if what
040does our policy say about a news media support, you know, approaches Jeremy and wants to comment. >> You should have that conversation if you have. So and and and really as I said the the district's spokes spokesperson is really the superintendent. If you don't have a communications director you're kind of it hits then then you're the official and then um and then the chair is kind of the official spokesperson for like the board's decisions and the board's you know actions and things like that. So um it's district level but I guess that's something that you should have conversations like how do we handle this content like that? Um are there any do you have any specific communication protocols? I mean you have a complaint policy so you're not going to complain but outside of what
041you have in the rules. you say, "Okay, this is the step >> outside of that agreement." No, that's why I was bringing up >> anything official. But I wrote down that I think that's something we could easily put together >> just kind of like a point in this point and what's a proper board member and you pass that. >> Okay. Um um so really we're talking about those uh operating agreements and building those tools. Board operating agreements particularly those between the superintendent and the board um really help to formalize those expectations and prove the collaboration of that team. Um they're really crucial for building trust um and clarity uh with with district operations and defining the roles and responsibilities. Um they really help with decision- making processes and boundaries. And as we're talking about these
042communication protocols as well, it just really ensures that everybody who's involved um understands what their role, what their expectation is, and that everyone's operating on the same page. You want to do this so that you minimize those misunderstandings or miscommunications um or potential conflicts too. So um you really just it helps to foster that collaborative environment um focused on just you know achieving their shared goals. They're not legally required. Um, but many boards find them helpful. Um, Chairman already does have uh the board superintendent agreement and I'm going to talk a little bit about the idea that some actually do a um board on board expectations agreement too. So, we're going to talk about the difference about those a little bit. So the board superintendent operating agreements they many boards will formalize this um for
043communication expectations um and they really focus on you know these uh roles and responsibilities um the communication expectations but no surprises like you mentioned how we handle information requests from the board um and uh and really just of making sure that you raise concerns early. Um, so on that side on the left is things that are typically in there and I read through yours and these are a couple of the things that I pulled out that you have that kind of fit into that you know the board respects the superintendent's role managing operations members communicate consent to the superintendent no surprises expectations. So you already have some and you have some additional ones as well. Um, so that was great on my you know first. So I thought that was just going to kind of
044be doing as well. Um, this is just an example of what we have. I don't know when you developed yours, you used any of the samples that RPA has on there. It looks like somewhat, but they're kind of standing. That might have just been, you know, coincidence, but I thought that was really cool because I was looking at that what we typically have with our board of superintendent operating agreements. We kind of have that like collaborative governance and that communication agreements. Then usually what we do is we have the board come up with, you know, a few of the top priorities and expectations of what they expect from the superintendent and what the superintendent expects of the board. And we have those conversations and usually we provide this list um that has, you know, some
045samples of what things directors typically expect of the board and what um the board typically expects the director superintendent. And then you kind of talk through those and you say, "Okay, well, how many of us believe that number one's really important? How many of us?" And you go through those and sometimes that exercise really helps to just think about see what are the top priorities amongst the board at that time. And one of the things we often say is that you should be reviewing these annually because boards change, things change, stuff happens during the year. It's always a great idea to kind of evaluate what you already have, what you approved, and say, you know, still matter still. Check it with policy policy updates. You might have already seen that something you had here is
046now covered in the policy. So you really don't want, you know, have multiple cases that you have that you're saying the same thing. Just helps to clean it up and keep things as well. Um, so what I'm going to do is a little exercise. I know that you just approved this in September, but I think I want to show you kind of what I mean when the review needs to happen. And what I would like you to do is just take a look at um what you have in September. And I want you to circle one thing, just one agreement that you think the board does really well and one thing that you think the superintendent does very well. And then I want you to do the same. Um, and then I would like you
047to or I'm sorry, underline. I want you to underline that. And then I want you to circle something that you think needs clarified or strengthened or maybe we aren't doing that as well and that needs to be revisited or maybe it doesn't need to be used anywhere. So, just take a couple of minutes to do that individually and just evaluate what you've got there. Gives you an opportunity to read over it again and remind yourself what you think you're doing well. And that's that voice assessment. Anything? I know it's hard. It's been a long day. I'm so mean. >> Well, instead of um getting together and kind of in part, I'm just ask what do you think? We'll start with what do you think board the board is doing? Wow. >> I said that uh
048we will treat each other staff, students and research stakeholders with dignity and respect. And I see that coming from a cardboard look different a while back and I did not feel that and I do feel that now and I really appreciate it. >> Um so that was the board and then the board stream. Anybody else have something different as far as supervising? Well, the board. Okay. What is one that maybe you feel members will address their chair? Hey, >> I know >> whoever happens to be speaking, you know, like we address whoever speak for the chair. >> How was this? I don't feel like we've like we're in a hook. >> Like I don't think it matters as much like when like when we have a speaker like when speaking and you're asking Dory questions
049and it's an appropriate time to ask questions. I don't think it's wrong. >> I think the only reason they want to get asked the chair is to keep it orderly and you've never gotten crazy. So I don't think it's really a big deal. But if something was a hot topic, which we have dealt with those, it's very important to address the chairperson. So you you'll know You have a feeling when the room's packed, you'll know. And there's a difference between asking to address the chair and the difference between asking you. If that's not an issue, then that might not be something you feel is necessary to have and therefore agreement. However, if a new war member comes on and that person really has a difficult time and they're, you know, and you want to manage
050that behavior, then sometimes keeping it in there, whether or not is something that you want to establish. >> I'm pretty good, too. If you're cutting in when you shouldn't be, they just say, "Oh, let's hold that." Or something along those lines, which I haven't really in a long time. But, and also, we need to make sure that you guys aren't asking for information from the audience. I can ask them for information. >> So you can ask me, hey, do you think it'd be all right if we brought Adam up to talk? And then you can go about it that way. So it's just >> Yes. And thank you for doing that. I mean, because I worked hard because when I first arrived, it was not treated as a board meeting held in public. It was
051treated as a public meeting in which anybody was just talking >> and it drove me nuts. Chaos. The other thing too that I appreciate about the work of the group is that and I encourage the board to think about this is to practice those things that you want to have in place when things do get contentious >> because they will I mean I can go back to the closing of the Japanese school that was ugly and there were some very very tough board you know and we had to work at sticking a protocol you know I just had to bite my tongue through some of this because you're talking two different boards And people don't realize the charter school had a board. >> And so they're operating, we're operating, and then there were laws involved
052in the closing of the charter and an agreement we had with them that we had to follow and abide by which was really hard to get everyone to understand. >> I had a lot of speaking. But you bring up an excellent point is that if you haven't and it's not something that you're doing, maybe it's a good idea to start practicing at that. So then it is really necessary that you're used to that. >> Yeah. My previous district central had a lot of interest meetings for variety of reasons. One was a book challenge and I was the curriculum director and I had to present to the board this book that and I had one hand the parents that wanted the books book out of the library and then I had the professors of Western Oregon
053University who are also parents saying you will not remove books from our library and I'm like okay board >> you know and and we're going to be going through some policies on that eventually but those are the kinds of things it's like you've got to have those protocols in that and you also have to have a chair who's strong enough to make sure those are happening and sometimes when that switches you have people who are learning to be a chair that might be more difficult. Um I had a lot of new board members this year that chairs too. So trying to learn having it written in paper and and being really clear about what that means and you want to utilize it is really important for >> well that was one that I circled as
054being really doing no I had it backwards. So the one thing I thought we were doing really well is the chair should direct audience members to allow the appropriate participation and keep the meeting moving forward and Sam does a great job as as board chair in that manner. So you do have a productive meeting of meetings that aren't well too long. Absolutely. And there is definitely things that you can put into place to make sure your students are going more effectively. And this is one of those things. Have those conversations. Definitely review these on a regular basis and just, you know, have these kinds of conversations about the one I always laugh on, but I said it's a struggle every single month is supporting materials for board members shall be made available with the agenda
055before working days in advance of each meeting. We try so hard by Friday. Yes. >> And I'm like, I send out calendar invites. You guys go and get the second gem. She's got to make it live for the board by Friday afternoon. >> Yeah. >> And because of public meeting on, we do have a change of a document. It's done in 24 hours and then I have to work the board that hey, we did have a slight change in this document. But that one, that one was just always really tough. There are times and there are times that you have changes and it has happened before where you can't avoid that happen as long as they're not substantive and it's going to take you forever to you know sometimes take a recess take a short
056recess so the board can begin to update while that is >> okay >> yeah I mean you do want to get your notices and everything there but as far as the details and things that are actually been presented But sometimes those change when you have additional materials internally that doesn't mean you're changing the substance of the agenda or what's going on. It's the materials and yes you want to try to get materials for the board stuff happens and especially when you're relying on other agencies or things that they're not comfortable with time then you just let the chair know. You let the board know we need this late. would you like to take the time? We want to just put this off until the next time to give you sufficient time and let the board
057decide if they feel that's something that they'll probably see. Um I have a second one circled and I'm just curious how much we should know but um I circled school improvement reports uh the second part about the data should be distributed all members. Um I was thinking about this the other day too like how much data should we be getting um from our super or those who are presenting when it comes to things like um adopting reopting like amplify or curriculum type things where there's data outside of our school that we're we're using that they're using specifically. So like if Dory's relying on data that says hey amplify works really well in whatever reason should we be able to assess that data as well and look at contradictory data to be able to say hey
058you know one study might might um agree with it one might have contradictory information like where where should we be in that in assessing what we're approving basically and knowing what's really going to be effective. >> So, um, in answer to that question, kind of my approach to everything is that you as a board member need to be able to have all the information you feel you need to have in order to make an informed decision. And we also say when it comes to data, you want to have multiple sources data. You want to have things to compare to. So, it's going to be different. Some board members are feeling like, you know, I have everything I have to make this decision. And then there others say, no, I still don't. and it is the
059right board member to have the information that they need in order to make decision. So, um it's just it's going to be dependent on um board members don't come here with a lot of experience. There's a lot of training that might have to occur. There's a lot of explanation and it's really up to your staff and your superintendent to try and help you get to speed on those things and explain the data and give you the but there are just some things that take years to learn that you may not learn. So you need to just kind of have that balance of do I have everything right in front of me? Do I think I can make that decision? And I'm trusting the experts who brought this team and they said based on what I'm
060seeing here and you know this is what I think is the best choice and they make recommendations and we just have to kind of open the different you know what I mean and like you guys haven't done a curriculum adoption yet but you will get to know like who the committee is put together. So that kind of helps like Dean feel more not with the right word like excited about who's putting it together because we know who the strong teachers are. And so it's really exciting when we see those people on those committees and they will be on those committees for the curriculum. Um and then there's usually samples that Rory will have in here that she'll say, "Hey guys, if you want to come check them out, you can come check them out." Um
061which is nice. You can come pick your own. You can take them home. You can put them on. You can do whatever um of the actual curriculum. Um, you could ask people on that committee questions. You can ask Dory questions to take back to the committee. Um, so you can dive in more than just it's more than just here's a curriculum we want you to adopt. Should I be asking Dory for that research or is that something I should just be doing like oh like if I want to go >> well like if you want to look stuff we talked about too >> but but if you want to look at stuff that's already been adopted like that's that's a different >> Yeah. Well, but also I I think there's two sides of it. Like
062yes, there's the stuff that needs to be adopted or already adopted, but then there's also stuff that's going to be like we talked about like is that something that maybe we would want to bring back eventually? Like there's obviously going to be but like >> but could we have a discussion about it? Absolutely. >> Well, and I'm wondering like is that something I should do researching outside of this on my own or is that about it? >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Anyone can research anything. We rely heavily on the state that's state approved. They go through a whole year of reviewing and then they put out metrics. So you can go on your department website adoption and see exactly how they're rated. >> When we try the trial things, right? And so then the teachers,
063you can talk to them about that, like what was good, what was bad. >> I felt like when we do curriculum adoption, it's pretty transparent here. >> Like I feel like Dory works really hard to make sure we're comfortable with what's going on, >> but we're not part of the process of picking it up. >> Okay. Um, we're gonna go look at quickly because we're just about out of time. Um, so I just want to talk a little bit. You have the board superintendent operating agreement and there are some things that you have in yours that's kind of elements of what we would call a board operating agreement which is member expectations between boards and you have some that are incorporated and often times a lot of times boards will do that but they're kind
064of combined into one. There can be some value though into separating that out and really establishing what things do we need to make sure between superintendent and board as a whole and then what things do we need to have that we and some of it might be get repetitive but it's something to consider that you might want to have one especially if you're going to have turnover on the board and you already have a really good working relationship. You might want to put some of those things that you are already doing in practice that work well so that they are in paper and that they are established um that you can share with people who are coming on and be like this is how we work now. You know problems with that you can start
065talking about that you want to put on there and have but it opens up that conversation. It's really just helpful for um change over on the board if that's going to be happening. So, and it has some of the similar things that you have with your board uh superintendent working agreements, but really the support superintendent uh working operating agreement is really about the relationship between the board and the superintendent whereas this is really focused on how you as a board want to interact with each other when it's passed something that the superintendent is, you know, responsible for and it's really um we do have some examples of those as well on our website if you want to take a look at them. It's the same process. you kind of go through, you have the discussions.
066Um, if you do develop something, um, then you just want to make sure that you approve it and that you also have everyone sign it so you have that accountability to be held to those standards that you agree upon and then you review it each year to make sure it still works. Um, so basically any kind of operating agreement, whether it's combined is or can you do them separate, you want to make sure you're doing agreement regularly. You want to discuss it with the team, have these work sessions, have these conversations, have these hypotheticals and scenarios that you talked about. You want to check and see if any policy updates have, you know, covered it so that you're not repeating the work. Um, and then, uh, you know, assess if the policy is sufficient or
067if you need something additional and then you go ahead about drafting and making sure that everybody has their say and they have their, um, have a part in the process of building it. And so, now we're going to go into a couple scenarios. I don't know if we'll be able to get to them all, but um hopefully it'll get the things turning. Um so as you decide if you're going to move forward the next steps with so there is a board member received several phone calls from people in the community complaining because the superintendent has non-renewed behavior as well like teacher. The board member is familiar with this teacher and believes that they have done a good job. The board member indicates to community members that they will personally investigate this situation. While discussing the
068issue with the superintendent, the board member requests to see all data relevant to this dismissal. The superintendent denies that request and the board member states that they have a right to this information. So what are your thoughts? What governance issues do you see here? personally investigated situation. We don't have the right to all that information. There's a reason why the superintendent is who handles all that. There's a like privacy for all staff members. So we won't see that for sure because who is what role should I honestly think we should back our superintendent up like that's my default is if we're not backing her up then there's other problems. problems going on besides this, >> right? >> We can always ask ask kind of clarifying questions. >> Like if we're not aware of this scenario,
069it might be a different type of thing. If we're already aware of it, we can say yes, we're aware of what's going on. We back our superintendent. We understand process has been done and all the things. But u obviously if you're blindsided by this, it might be a little different conversation. You know what? I need to check in with the superintendent. Um, I'm not aware of what's going on. Thanks for letting me know. In a situation like that, I probably wouldn't tell the people I'll get back to you or anything like that because I don't want to. Exactly. Do you have anything in your um operating agreements that say how you should plan this? board members will work directly through and with the superintendent concerns about the operations of the district. >> Number four will
070respect the superintendent's role district. >> Yeah. When you're looking at chairs like this, those are the kinds of things you want to think about. What is my role in this situation? What is the role? What is the best way? What should we be doing? And do we have that? All right. How about this one? Um, a board member posts on social media expressing frustration about a recent district decision discussed at the last board meeting. In the post, they share their personal opinion about the issue and respond to several community comments asking questions about what the board plans to do next. Some community members begin tagging other board members and asking them to weigh in as well. The conversation becomes more active and begins to draw attention from local community groups. We had last last time
071there was up there post about teacher teacher up there because we don't post on social media. >> Do you have something about publicly on matters? We have worked pretty good. I think Dory and I um when we meet with board new board members about not posting on social media um because it has been a concern in the past. So we've been really good and I have not not posted but I've been tagged in things a few times and it's very nerveing. I'm like stop. I don't even respond. I just I send screenshots. I'm like take care of this. I don't want anything to do with it. >> You're bringing public a lot of and so sometimes that is a good thing to kind of talk about. We don't do this. We don't post on social
072media. We don't interact on social media um that we, you know, kind of let this know, hey, I'm seeing things out there that's going on. Maybe we need to talk about this in public. We need to recognize that we are aware of the situation and this is where we stand as a board and who's the spokesperson for that >> chair. That was one of the things I actually had question because in your not being available >> so in your superintendent I actually got to see two versions of it and I did notice that between the first version and the second version you actually eliminated the board will appoint a spokesperson. I was curious as they >> from the first version to the second version. There were two versions loaded in the board and I was
073trying to remember the conversation. >> Yeah. >> Of why we went with this version. >> Was that one of the changes we did the last? >> Yeah, I think so. >> Yeah. >> I I just thought the rule was we don't publicly speak regardless. So therefore the chair we we wouldn't like. So but there's a difference you know it's when you're talking about board action like the board action or spokesperson for the board's like sentiment or the board's decision is then spoken things are going on and being communicated about district activities and so that's I've seen board chairs quoted in like newspaper articles and stuff like when they had to dismiss their superintendent. Yes. >> Yes. That's just like an example. We don't want >> we might want to allow for policy and somebody has
074a question about why we did that right >> because there might be a time where you we want to look at a third party county or somewhere else that provides a PI happens a lot emergency services >> or or Dorian for instance you may want to reach out to organizations the right so that she's not the case of >> right so we might want to think about that in the future >> because sometimes too like the board needs to make decisions to back up their superintendent and decision you know because if the board or the superintendent was acting on something that the board has them do and now superintendent backlash for it you know often times it's good for the board to try to make that statement this is our decision and we support They
075were doing exactly what we asked instead of saying, "Oh, we call you know, >> this would be a good work session >> for us to >> have." All right, final one. Um, so during a regular board meeting, a board member raises concern about a district issue that was not included on the agenda. The member begins asking detailed questions and suggest that the board should discuss the possible action that evening. The superintendent and other board members were not aware of this topic would be raised and the staff have not background information on the issue. Discussion begins and takes significant time during the year. Do you have something about this? No worries. No more. >> And what communication practice would prevent on the agenda ahead of time? If it doesn't go in time for them, then time.
076Well, we have ample p time though into our agenda at the end to ask for topics for future meetings. That doesn't mean topics to debate today. That's for the future. That's good. >> That gives Dory the time to research what needs to come and who he chooses to talk to. And then board comments, >> which again are just board comments. It's not board discussions. So, which I think. So when when there's a topic that is thought about after meeting prior to the next one >> yeah like first or you first it doesn't matter who you work together all three of us agenda >> often times in that situation honestly it's a little board too because have an idea too because everyone can make that that's something that maybe others want to discuss but we also
077want to make sure that we're not bringing that in that only one person, you know, >> right? >> So often times you want to if you do bring it up at the end, it's a good time to talk about like are there others who think this would be good to add to the agenda? Yeah. Um but if it happens in between, you might not be able to do that. So you might want to bring up the next meeting before you add it onto a hey talk about this. Are there more this would be a valuable discussion? Is this in line with our priorities? if it's in line with your students, >> have those conversations before you go. >> Yeah. Well, especially if it's just like, for example, if somebody wants to know more about football
078or something, >> then they could specifically go search that out themselves if they wanted to know more about, right? But I think we've had kind of like similar things to that where we're just like if it's just you, then just go something. >> Yeah. >> Um, if you are going to start talking about reevaluating this one, maybe separating it or you want to keep in mind these are some of the things that, you know, should the board have their own agreement, you want to make sure that the individual things that you these are some of the things that you might want to consider um about, you know, being prepared and really present. You know, one force, one vote after the vote. These kinds of things are some of the stuff that attempts to come up
079with those for member-to-member expectation board member to board member expectations. Um, and I can forward this on to you all as well so you can consider. I was going to have you do a mini activity but we kind of run out of time but maybe something to think about before we spend started donate time. Is there one expectation that would strengthen board communication right now? Do you think that that could be added to what we have here? I just wanted if you want to throw something out there if there's something in mind that you're thinking of like response to time expectations, group texting norms, any kind of um warm voice after the go be prepared for meetings. I don't remember if that was in there or not, but just something to consider. Um, is there
080anything that you think that we should really maybe consider adding to something just we have information to go to them? But also, I was just thinking um like sort of like here's going to be something going on with us who how should we how should we communicate that best? And I think there's kind of a general idea, but not at um the board to board member to board member when we brought up the accountability. >> Yeah, that was brought up at the same was it the small schools practice. I think they they talked about it that they had an accountability factor where they um they like to go to so many events, district events a year. >> And by doing that, you take a selfie at the event and you send it to the group.
081You don't say anything. It's just a picture and the um superintendent is part of the thread. And so it's just a way to hold each other accountable. Hey, I'm at the basketball game and I'm at the band concert. Yay. Um, and then you'll also know what other board members are at the event that you're at, too. Sometimes it's still pictures of ourselves individually. Yeah, we're not talking. One of the things to keep in mind too is that if you do have some events planned and you know sometime hey we're having community event etc. >> No and I know we've got it in policy about the community that board members will not be talking. >> Yes. And I love to do that because when people see that and they see interaction that might not put something
082up ahead, it's time to communicate. Let people know it's okay for us to be a public event together. Um we're not we don't talk about stuff and it's just maybe we're see we understand. So it's just it's always great to have that clarity to be clear and trans communication between yourself between your community um between your staff when things are happening making sure that it's not just kept here that big things are happening staff at least the last think about that communication as well. Any other questions or reflections for tonight? I did put that information request up there because often times especially newer board members are like so you want to clarify okay what are the rules about what kind of sessions you find great next I really talk about superintendent evaluation process and have
083all of these things don't >> having this kind of pie but this on Sunday jazz. So, it's >> sounds like we're all >> Let's go ahead and close out our meeting to do that. Good job all night.