001I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Prior to this evening's public meeting, the board did meet in a brief executive session to um discuss personnel matters. With that, um board announcements and recognition. Superintendent report. Mr. Bigger. >> Thank you, Mr. Norcross. Uh the events of last week uh while brief were certainly a stark reminder that any school district is susceptible to random acts of violence. Yet the collective spirit of Cam South family persevered when called upon to act. I want to reiterate the continued need for parents in the community to engage with our youth on a regular and consistent basis about how they're doing. In addition, continue to use
002the 1844 safe with the number two say um phone number or go to the website unsafe to say or call a staff member if you know anything. The one minute incident in the bathroom was a random act of violence with absolutely no precursor issues we are aware of at this time between the two students. Thankfully, the victim was treated and sent home from the hospital the next day. As with any incident in Chambersburg, we have completed our afteraction review indicating there was a thorough and immediate response in eliminating the threat and administering first aid. Moving forward, we will be increasing our um be more judicious with students who are returning, coming from other places outside the district or returning to the school. Uh we have to stay within the confines of the law in order
003to make that happen. On a side note, I do believe the county would benefit from increased funding and therapeutic services for youth outside the school day. Thank you for that time for that statement. I have a few more items. Uh just so people know, tonight we are um piloting the metal detectors for the basketball games. So, if you've been to the football games, you're used to the metal detectors. Tonight's the first game. Um they're trying those out for basketball. Uh also, there was an event scheduled for you at 2 o'clock tomorrow with the foundation. that's canceled. >> Um, so I got a notification. So if you were planning on that event in the high school at 2, that's canceled for tomorrow. Um, I have been getting some requests for board members to potentially attend our
004schools just to walk through and at some point we can talk about the procedures for that. I believe also the career tech is opening their doors for board members to attend. Uh, we do have some upcoming presentations that are going to get pretty heavy here in February. So in February, reading by third grade presentation, estimated cost of the new buildings and also bond borrowing scenarios. In March, three-year budget um proposal from the business office and myself. And then also revisiting the electronic device policy that was brought up about eight months ago. And then in April, we have our 9 through 12 program updates on all things related to themies, 9th grade, career tech, and the like from the presentation from the secondary folks. I do want to continue to thank the state for the new
005laws related to cyber school, cyber school reforms. Uh we are able to help students remain in school if they're truent. They're not transferring out to the cyber school and the residency checks are going very well. I do want to report that the cyber schools are very supportive of that and have communicated back uh respectfully and also encouraged to follow that law. Um and that concludes my report at this time. Right. >> Thank you, Mr. Bigger. Um, I'm proceed with my item, my president's report tonight. Uh, I believe in two years and two months while Mr. Bigger and I have been in our roles, I don't think we've ever discussed what our reports are going to be. Uh, but we have done so this week as we've been in communication uh darn near every day. Um,
006so since the events of last week, uh, Tangerary School District has been in communication with the student and family from Cam South. Furthermore, Changer Area School District will continue to remain in communication with the family and au student to assist in their return to school as well as any other needs and concerns they may have. Tonight, I give thanks and praise to be able to report that the student is home and is expected to make a full recovery. In a Norcross home, we have two things we believe in very strongly, grace and faith. We believe in faith and we trust. We believe in grace and we trust our faith. First, grace. I believe it is by grace we can give this report tonight of the outcome. However, in addition to grace, I'll talk about faith
007later. In addition to grace, like to recognize everyone and their list is long and therefore I'm not going to list names because if I did, I would end up forgetting someone for sure. First off, building administration for their quick and effective response, uh, which allows us to be where we are today. Chambersburg School District Police, same thing for their quick and effective response, as well as outside police agencies, Chambersburg Burough Police, Chambersburg Pennsylvania State Police, local EMS and medical staff who again were timely and effective in their response. the entire Cam South building staff uh for how they handled the building and all the other students in the building uh their actions and efforts uh again are to be commended. uh like to commend Superintendent Bigger. Uh I believe his messaging was spoton. Um and
008despite what you may see and hear in social media or regular media, uh I again I believe his message was spot on and right. Uh the administration, administrative staff, the whole district immediately, you know, it was all hands- on deck with this, not just the administration, but the district as a whole. A lot of act, a lot of things had to happen Tuesday, parent pickup, you know, caring for the other students and just trying to get, you know, back to as close to normal as we could that day. Now, I said I'd talk about faith. Uh, I've often sat in this chair or one of these other seats up here and I've talked about the culture of Chanbury area school district. I believe what I have heard, seen and know about the events of last
009week is the culture of Chainsburg Area School District that has provided the outcome that we have today. I have faith that that culture will continue to grow and prosper and I have faith that we will overcome this and anything else that comes our way. Now, on behalf of the board, I would like to I this is uh exactly the words from Mr. Bigger on Tuesday in his um one video. Uh on behalf of the board, we want to reaffirm this statement. To be clear, any student who acts this way with intent to harm will not return to school hallways in Chambersburg School District. Thank you. Item 4.01, Mr. Whitman. Good evening. I'm going to give a brief report on two items this evening. One is on the uh DAO, this building's education center at the
010end of the hallway. An update on that and then our schools of distinction planning that's in progress. Um but first uh underneath your agendas while you're in executive session, I placed uh kind of two information sheets on each one. So you can refer to the uh board report on the DAO education center. First, I need to give a little bit of a history lesson first because we have some new board members. Uh, not just new now, but new even since we applied for the bipartisan safety communities act uh grant a couple years ago. So, when I first came into this position and we [clears throat] had uh we didn't have students that were going to outside placements because of COVID, we brought all the kids back and I had to come to the board when
011we had our meetings over at at the high school for a couple years several times increasing our numbers for students that needed outside placement, high need students. Some were special ed um with high needs, some were uh behavior students like the one Mr. Norcross was just talking about. and we had to uh increase our numbers a total of three times. I had to keep coming back to the board. We don't have enough, you know, spots at River Rock, New Yellow Breaches. Those are the three placements that we use uh that we secure a certain number of seats for those places. Then we had the opportunity when Elise was up for our uh tax office here at the end of the building and we worked a little bit through our CNI committee talking about we needed
012we were looking at all the behaviors that were at cashes and we needed something in between an outside district placement for disruptive youth and from cashes. We had a behavior classroom at Cashes, but we still had a lot of behavior problems at Cashes. And so we had the idea that, you know, we could use this space coupled along with we were dinged by the federal government because we were suspending our students uh like our subgroup students a little bit higher than um what we should be in their opinion. And and we were they were right. We were suspending kids home for policy violations, major policy violations, sometimes up to 10 days. And there was a big gap because the students would be suspended and they wouldn't do any work at home. You know, their parents
013may be working and the students had to uh they weren't doing their schoolwork. They'd come back after a 10-day suspension. They're 10 days behind the school work and a lot of the students started, you know, giving up and then they' create more more problems and some viewed it as a vacation, you know, when they were suspended. So, we had to use some of our IDA money, the Individual with Disabilities Education Act, our federal money. The federal government said we had to use some of that money to help solve this problem. So, we had about $400,000 from the IDA set aside that we had to use. and it came across my desk a grant, the bipartisan safety community act, federal legislation that we could qualify for because of our demographics uh in Chambersburg. It was a
014$2.4 million grant. Uh when it Sheree Sullivan and I and Bobby Stein from the business department, we worked, you know, hard on this uh grant and were very excited when we were awarded $1.8 million. I on the paper I have the exact dollar figure. I'm just rounding, but about $1.8 million. And we did through the board, we did an request for proposal. Um, you approved to do a request for proposal after we renovated the DAO office to make three classrooms down here for an outside group to pilot a program for a couple years. We had three classrooms that we three very different classrooms that we wanted to have down at the district uh education office. One was a place for instead of suspension, it was going to be alternative instruction. So we'd have a special
015ed teacher here to work with our kids that were special ed that would might this is in place of suspending a student. If they made a policy violation and they needed to be outside of the school for three to 10 days, they came to the administration building and that was alternative instruction. The teachers would give the work, the folks here, Riverwalk River, you know, won the RFP. They would work with the kids to complete their work. So that's three to 10 days that they may be here for some sort of policy violation. So classroom one was alternative instruction that met all the criteria that we needed to fix. also with suspending a high number of students. The second classroom, we will call it a behavior classroom. Um it's CABS 2 is what we call it.
016Uh these are students that were kind of in between. They may need an outside placement, but you know, they're they're in our behavior classroom over over at Cashes or over at CMS and they're causing a lot of issues. So we wanted to have something in between sending a student to Riverok yellow brereeaches or news story and we created a second classroom a behavior classroom and the third classroom it we called flex high. This is for students that may be that are 18 years old may be super seniors could be uh student that may have had a baby student that needs to work to support the family. uh student that is behind on credits could be a student that has high anxiety and being in a a building with 2,300 other students isn't great for their
017you know their education. So we created a flex high where kids can come in a morning session or afternoon session or both sessions and get caught up on their credits that they're behind. And uh so some of the benefits I have on the the paper in front of you and we saw a reduction in discipline immediately referrals at cashes about 40% which was huge and we saw that attendance was starting to tick up. You know the students that we we weren't suspending home anymore. So now they were here, they're when they would get back to school, they were more on track with their work. Um, and we started to see an uptick in graduation. We feel that the the principles and the directors very much are in support of keeping, you know, our our education
018center here. So, we started meeting back in September and we've had a lot of meetings with the directors and the principles uh talking about what can we do to make it even better. And so, I'm here to report to you that we want to keep the alternative instruction classroom. We want to keep the the cabs too, the behavior classroom as a place for when students may come back to us from a residential treatment facility. They can transition, make sure they're doing okay before we allow them in in our classroom or vice versa. They're not making it in cashes. They're a detriment to other students learning that we can move them over here to CABS 2 before we, you know, place them at a more expensive placement. So, we want to keep the alternative instruction. We
019want to keep the cabs too. The third classroom uh the flex high we have discussed and uh feel that our CVA teachers can handle flex high and any students. We weren't getting a high number of students that were coming in. We were getting students that wanted to be in flex high but they just did it through CVA. So our you know principal of our virtual academy said we don't need flex high over here. They can come to the high school if they want to come in and meet with a teacher. They only have to go in the front door career center. they don't have to be in the main part of the building. Um, and they feel that they can service all of our flex high kids. But what we do need is a behavior
020classroom like this for some of our middle school students. So, if we have someone that may be at an outside placement and they want to transition back to the school district that we start here first in a smaller setting, make sure it's working. and also that maybe we have students that aren't quite ready for a you know an ADY placement which is a river rock or yellow breaches or a news story but we might place them here in our cabs 2 classroom. So that's the outline of what we want to do with the education center. Um we've met many many times working on efficiencies. How can we fund it without you know we had a $1.8 8 million grant basically that helped to fund that and there's a breakdown of how we spent the monies
021there and we feel that we can do it with efficiencies. We have a couple positions that we've been you know holding on to that we haven't filled uh one at Cashes. We haven't used the second connections classroom at uh Hamilton Heights where we can bring a teacher from there. We don't have a teacher there now and we don't have an aid there now but it's in our budget. We've been holding that. Uh we can bring we can reallocate that those positions. Maybe in the future we may need to have a second connections class in the elementary, but for the last couple years we just the numbers just don't support it and they still don't support that. So we feel we have the efficiencies through the middle school, high school and elementary division to really run
022this program without asking for more uh you know staff support. um some of the costs that that were in the grant that we still want to see funded. We had back on track track which was tutoring for students at the high school. You'll see that that's listed in the monies down there. That was also part of the grant. We had that before uh we got this grant and we were using esser money for that. Then we were able to use this grant money for that. Um that is an important piece at the high school for kids that are habitually truent. we have them attend back on track and that we help them get caught up. It's a great program where our own high school teachers tutor after school. That's something that um we want to
023put into this year's budget. And the second thing uh some of the commitments we made for uh positive behavior implementation support PBIS uh in the elementary division um where we use the grant to have uh teacher leaders in each school that are the PBIS coordinators. It's just a $2,000 stipen for each elementary school that we want to put uh into the regular fund. So, when it comes down to it, we feel that we can really fund the DAO education center through efficiencies in our school district with a minor cost that we are putting into the budget for some of the other items that were part of that grant. So, I'm going to I'll wait, pause, see if you have any questions before I move on to schools of distinction. >> Board members questions. So Kurt,
024maybe um you can confirm that by eliminating the possibility of sending someone to River Roth or Yellow Bridges or New Story um which is quite expensive, we can utilize the staff here, the programs here and also eliminate the transportation cost which should help mitigate you know what we're doing. Well, let me clarify that we still need those placements for students. Um, you know, that we may the student may be expelled. Uh, we may place them for a variety of reasons through an administrative review process. So, we still need the outside placements, but this in the end it is causing us to send more students out and me coming to you ask for more expensive placements. So, it is a little cheaper to keep them here. And it gives us an option between, you know, the
025school and an outside placement, you know, and we we like the location because it's very close to the high school. It gives kids a carrot that, hey, I want to do what's right here so I can get back over there. >> So, I'm a little little confused on the 700,000. Is that in addition to these five FTEEs or and the two support positions? >> The uh we when we consider an FTE it's about $110,000. Is that right Tammy? So it was the the 110,000. So basically 550,000 there and then two support would equal the other 150,000. We figure about $75,000. So that's what we're saying that it would cost to run the program would be about $700,000. These are not people uh from the high school that we're bringing over from the existing classrooms that
026we have where the enrollment is where it's not working that we need them anymore. So we only >> right we have there's an been an open position at Cashes for a couple years that they didn't fill would be one of the positions. The connections classroom at Hamilton Heights would be another teacher position. And then we have uh efficiency at the middle school or two efficiencies at the middle schools that we can use to come over as well for for the teaching positions. The uh support position would be reallocating one of our social workers to help support here. That's one of the support position. >> This is a matter of moving people from that. It's not an an additional 700,000. >> No, it's not additional. That's a great question. It's not an additional 700,000. I'm just
027telling you. So you're giving internal staff to this and and if you tally up their salaries it would be 700,000 but >> it's already budgeted salaries >> already budgeted. That's that's the confusion that that that I was having. >> And then out of those things at the top uh that are listed is the PBIS uh are we going to have to fund that separately and hadn't been or the back on track? Well, the back on Yeah, I I talked about those two. Those two items, back on track and the PBIS, we have put in as an ask for an increase in our our budget request. >> So, they weren't in this year's budget because they were in with the grant. >> They were in with the grant. >> So, that's an additional >> Yeah. >>
028300,000. >> That was over two years. So, you have to the 140,000 was two years for Back on Track. So, it's 70,000 per year for Back on Track. Okay. And then the PBIS um it's we are only doing the piece that's $26,000 per year the PBIS and that is uh for the stipens. So the 157,000 were a lot of supplies and things like that for PBIS, but principles can, you know, prioritize their building budget for the supplies. It was uh basically 52,000 of that 140 157,000 was for the stipens for the PBS coaches. >> So the what was that 52? What 52? >> Yeah, it was it's 26,000 per year I think. >> 52,000 and the 70,000. >> Yeah. in addition and and then the 700,000 it was already existing staff. >> So it's a
029total 96 it's a total 96,000 >> that we're putting into the budget request for next year. >> Okay. So that was a two-year total. I see >> these totals are two-year totals. >> Hey Kurt, could you just give me an idea of how many kids you've run through that program in the two years? I mean, not the breakdown of each individual one, but just out of curiosity. >> Um, the AI classroom to start the year, it takes a few weeks to get it into, you know, thankfully. We'd like to see it empty for a while, but unfortunately, by the end of September, it's getting pretty full each day. And that's we allow for six spots from 9 to 12, so both high schools. And then we allow for six spots from the two middle schools
030per day. So 12 students per day in the classroom where students have violated you know some sort of policy. Uh so that's the AI classroom. The CABS 2 classroom is nearly full right now. So they have between 16 and 18 students in there right now and that's the behavior classroom and that's we're pretty full. Uh actually the high school behavior classroom is a little bit over full right now. Um, and then the flex high, I would have to check those numbers. Um, because they have a morning and an afternoon session. I would have to get that answer to you. I don't have that offh hand right now. >> And just for my clarification, >> but how many students come in is only a handful for flex high each day. >> Gotcha. So, just for my
031clarification, if they're not at this particular facility, they'll either be back at the high school or in an outside placement or most likely in the outside placement because of issues that they're having in their schools. >> That would be correct. Especially for the cabs, too. The we would be suspending the kids back home if we didn't have the alternative instruction. >> And in your opinion, I see what you have here, but you see you think you've seen a pretty good ROI, return on your investment with the money there. >> Absolutely. Um, you know, I I think our our folks feel that we can do it better internally with our own people where we're taking, you know, ownership and not having a subcontractor. We've had some hiccups, some, you know, things we had to work with
032the administration of Riverok that, you know, they weren't [cough] meeting [clears throat] up to what we wanted them to do. >> Okay. >> Uh but I think that, you know, having our own administrator in charge and our own employees in there that we will run it even better than it is right now. >> Okay. >> But as a pilot, we are very happy with it. >> Okay. Thank you. Mhm. >> I I think this is a benefit to the students who are in the programs, but also for the students in the regular ed classrooms because the reduction in chaos that probably is happening is >> beneficial. >> And I can even say, you know, with the probably the new schedule at the high school, Deb even reports uh Mrs. Luffy reports that you discipline is
033even further down this year. But it mean over the last 2 years we saw incidents down 40%. And you know a lot of times it's 3 to 5% of your kids that are causing 95% of your problems. And when we were able to pull them out of the high school we had a lot less problems. And you know, that's kind of what we want to now do with the middle school with a CABs 2 program for the middle school because there's some students that would benefit being in a smaller environment that's a lot more structured and you know we can give them a lot more attention too. >> But my point is that the uh 95% of the students who are not having problems are benefiting as well as the students who are having problems.
034>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. I like that it's an that this has been put together and I think it's been extremely successful because they they can flex from the high school over. It's it's in proximity. There's there's opportunity because of the location of where it's housed. And I think that's a a perfect scenario so that we can hopefully get these kids transitioned back when they're when they're ready. Any other questions for Mr. Whitman? >> So I have the second part from you to go. Okay. >> So the schools of distinction um it started couple two summers ago when we started talking about the the blueprint and we came up with our pillars, you know, our six pillars of what we we stand for and and we had part of the blueprint committee. We had administrators, we
035had lots of teachers, we had support staff, um couple community members, and we chose six pillars. And out of the pillars, I just want to remind you what they are. early childhood, career and college ready, high quality teaching, teaches, uh, teaching and learning, I was going to say teachers, teaching and learning, resources to support our folks in the classroom and students, governance and accountability and in a positive and a safe environment. And you know really when you think about our schools of distinction falls under a couple of our categories. You know highquality teaching and learning and of course providing the resources that are you know faculty and staff need to do that and of course governance and accountability. And I'm going to talk how we tie those all together in our schools of distinction plan.
036As you've heard many times you know Mr. bigger talks about one Trojan community and schools of distinction. That's really where where we are heading with this. So in the fall uh I did a professional development with all of our administrative staff that are on the educational side. So it's principles, assistant principles, supervisors, even dean of students in the elementary school. And we did a session about the schools of distinction where we have 17 schools and each school you can think is is kind of unique in itself. And we talked about what would it mean to be schools of distinction and we gave them lots of different choices. I have some of those on your paper that you have there uh in front of you like blue ribbon schools, middle states evaluation which is a very
037rigorous 15 to 24month comprehensive self- appraisal and peer review process community connection schools those are schools that are generally higher in poverty instructional frameworks such as projectbased learning personnel learned Cambridge schools then other recognitions like our US and news and world reports uh where you have the top 40% rankings and of course middle schools of distinction. We presented what all these are. We gave our folks time to uh discuss in groups. We did a little learning and doing where I had each building create a notebook LM. It's it's a uh basically an AI feature that helps you can house all of the information that you're compiling and put it all together. We did a little learning doing session. Then we talked about timelines. We talked about each building creating their own building leadership team for
038them to take a deep dive into their data and where they think they know need to go as a school to have the you know the highest learning possible for their for their students in their in their building. So the timeline the the principles went back to the schools. They've created building leadership teams. They are meeting with those building leadership teams. They're looking at their data and now they're talking about schools of distinction and which you know avenue they want to choose as a school. So a little bit of voice and choice for the individual schools since they're very unique. Our directors are meeting with their principles. Um they're going to be looking at the plans along the way. Uh hopefully in about two months we'll start to see some of the plans come to
039the formally to the directors and to Chris and I to take a look at to give feedback and any adjustments with a culminating activity. Our original goal was May or June, but because it's tough to find times to meet for our building leadership teams and they want to spend a couple days, maybe even the summer working with their teams on their their they're they're getting into the weeds with the plans. we may have the last set of groups, last set of schools uh come to board approval for their schools of distinction plans in August. The goal is that I would say it would be June, but we may need to have some schools that do it in August because it's very tough to find quality time. You just can't do it in a 20-minute meeting.
040You know, they they need some solid time to get together. Um and uh so that's about where we stand right now in our schools of distinction process. It's in process. We're going to be very excited when we bring you each individual school's plans um on how they're going to get to schools of distinction by 2030. So, >> questions questions for Mr. Woodman. While you're here talking about schools of distinction, is it possible that we could have be informed um perhaps the board of of what's been going what's going on the second half of the year with staff development to make sure we we are updated that we stay focused on that the second half, you know, those times that are open. >> Absolutely. We're planning right now for February 11th and we're planning for the
041March date. we can get that that information and like you know I I I caught Oh, it's a two-hour delay. Is the two-hour delay that's is it this week? I don't know. >> Early dismissal tomorrow. >> Early dismissal. What is that? What goes on during that time? You know, if we could just >> give an overview of the Friday. >> Yeah. I would I would just like to peruse that. Yes. Thank you. I have a question. Um so, are we already on the path to schools of distinction? because we've been hearing a lot about a lot of good things that are happening slowly rolling things out. Can you give me an example of something that you feel is already trending if you will among the staff in a certain school espec I'm curious about the
042elementary level because we keep hearing also about reading by third grade. >> So which one of these is more tied to that? >> Okay, so that's a great question. Um, first off, let me answer the first part of the question. What schools are trending towards schools of distinction? I would have to say, you know, first and foremost, Hamilton Heights, three years in a row being a US News and World Reports top 40% school, um, they they've done a tremendous job. our two middle schools uh based off of just growth alone where the kids come in and where they leave, you know, our and how many you saw uh last month I had a list of teachers that were we call them dark blue. We talked a little about PEASS and you know, our our middle
043schools really are right there at at that school with distinction cusp if not already there. Um the reading by third grade um we are going to be giving you a presentation. I think Mr. Bigger just told you it's going to be next month. Um it's actually going to be a little bit of a different presentation where you know Mr. Nelson is going to sit in front of you at a table with probably Lindsay Brereslin and it's going to be more of a work session presentation. So they're really going to dig deep into uh reading by third grade, what it's going to cost the school district and and what our strategies and and what our plans are. So, uh, to answer your question, are there any schools that are heading towards distinction based off the reading
044by third grade? I would have to say, what would you say about that, Mr. Nelson? >> I'll try. So, I'll say all of our schools are hyperfocused on our two goals. Math goal and our reading goal. Everything data cadence was started last week. Our map assessment window started this week. We're going to start looking at the numbers as they come in. We're talking about individualized plans for small groups and for individual students throughout kindergarten through fifth grade. So, I would say that is a big push in the elementary level because there are two districts and when we talked the president and I talked in February about the reading by third grade, I think you're going to like what what you see and what you hear because big ideas and it's going to help all of
045our students. >> Okay. >> Can I Thank you. >> Can I just add one thing too? Um I know it's been mentioned repeatedly about Mississippi and how well they have done with their scores and in the the the early K to3 or whatever. And as I have looked into that, they have put a lot of money into that, you know, a lot of money. So, you know, I guess I start asking questions. How do we switch it, arrange it, and so forth so that we can get get some significant money into this reading by third grade? Because right now we're the the monies have been extremely limited as I've looked at it uh for for those for those kids. And um you know um as we see this presentation I I mean we've lost personnel
046in that in those areas over the years since I've been on the board. [snorts] And you know if we really want to to have a strong foundation for these kids, we're really going to have to look at where we can get the money to to help these kids because when you're looking at 50% of your kids are not proficient by third grade, you've got a we've got a big problem in my estimation. And I know we we tend to put a lot right now on careers and everything else at the secondary. We've really gota we've really got to get that foundation because it really is going to bite you in the end when those kids get up there and they're still struggling. So just uh throw that out there. >> Any other questions? How how
047are you finding the um improvement or lack thereof as a result of the um kindergarten changes that you've made um with the kickstart and so forth? I've heard very positive things, but I don't know if that's official or not. >> No, I think that's official. I think our kindergarten teachers are are very happy where they get, you know, eyes on the kids before they they come in. Uh the staggered start really helps for when they start creating their their groups. Um you know the we have more plans for the kindergarten that you're going to hear uh in the presentation next month with with Mr. Nelson, but the feedback has been great on the kickstart and the staggered start. >> So that that is intended to continue. >> Yes. Yes. And Mr. Nelson's going to talk
048even a little bit more about some parent involvement and toolkits and and things like that next month. >> I've got a question for either Mr. Whitman or Mr. Nelson. Um so can you say anything more about um how since a large part of our student body is uh English is a second language uh s situation um how that component is going to tie into you know the reading by third grade and so forth for those kinds of teachers or intervention specialists that might you know assist in that area. >> I'll let you want to take that or you can talk a little bit about that you want. So, I I know when Mr. Nelson talks about his uh reading by third grade and what we're doing with Walk to Read, we look at every student,
049all students. You know, if we have a student that is excelling, we're challenging them. We have a student that's in the middle, we're challenging them. We have students that need more supports, we're challenging them. We're meeting them where they are and what they're ready to learn. And, you know, when we I know Mr. Bigger talked about some visits. Uh, I would say when you do a visit, you should, you know, maybe go with Mr. Nelson or myself and visit a, you know, walk to read classroom so you can see how we're grouping the kids and how they switch and what they're working on is right at their levels and you can talk to, you know, our reading specialist, you know, in in the break in between and and hear from them. But, you know, we're
050meeting every kid where they're ready to be challenged. >> Yeah. and having sub multiple times in a kindergarten class where I'm seeing the walk to read happen. Um, even kids that are struggling, they're having fun. So, it's not going to be like they hate reading from the get-go. So, I think it's a great program and I I believe it'll be extremely successful. >> Can I ask one more one more question? I've been questioning the walk to read. Is that being used for all students in a particular classroom or is that just for remedial [clears throat] students who need an extra boost? It's for all students in the in each. >> So you haven't >> we're now not in every building. Next year we'll be in every building. You know, we want to we've been very
051systematic on how we started it. We started with three schools, then we add more schools. Next year it's going to be all the schools, but we're very systematic on how we're doing it, but it's for every student that's in that classroom. >> So So the kids are divided into three groups and they go round to each >> for the most most part. Yes, >> Mr. Woodman. >> So they're divided into groups. the it's not the number of groups. You can't say three groups. So at Fagetville, there's three kindergarten teachers. They work during that walk to read time with all of those kindergarten students and determine small groupings based on all of the kindergarten students and they rotate between those three classrooms. >> They're going from classroom to classroom >> one time. So they change classrooms
052and then in that 30 minute or 40-minute walk to read time, they're with their small group and they stay in that classroom. And after walk to Read, they go back to their home room. And the same thing in first grade. Now in second through fifth grade, we have what I need now, which is called win, which is somewhat similar to Walk to Read, but the students aren't um I don't know, grouped as much. It's more individualized. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Any other questions for Mr. Whitman? Thank you, Mr. Whitman. Thank you, Dr. Nelson. >> Thank you. >> Okay, consent agenda items. Um, these are items 5.01 through 5.09. Um, use the same procedure been using. Um, ask Mr. Bigger and any of the admin team if they would care to comment or elaborate on
053any of those nine items. and once they get a chance then I'll ask be the opportunity for the board members to do the same. Um again committee the whole meeting so we're just here to discuss these items. Um if we don't have any objections these items will then go forward on the consent agenda next meeting for official board um vote and approval. So Mr. Bigger or team any comments you wish any items you wish to add comments to or elaborate on? I just have one that early graduation is scheduled, Mrs. Luffy, for January 23rd, 6 PM. >> Yep. And we've heard from a couple of you. So, if you're planning on attending, please let myself, Mrs. Luffy, or um who did the communicating on that? Uh who sent the notice out for >> the last?
054>> Yep, that's right. So, if you're planning on attending, we need to know for your seats up on the stage. I think we have two attending as of now. >> That was it. Any other admin? Everyone's good around the outside of the room. Board members, questions, comments on items five, any of the items 5.01 through 5.09. I'll give you I have two. Um, first is a comment, not a question, on 5.01, the proposed LIU budget. Um, you know, 3.4% increase over the 2526 budget. Uh, I've been thinking about this ever since uh we had the presentation uh from the LIU director and I've been concerned ever since that presentation. Uh I asked him a question about what has been a my understanding of a continued uh concern uh over at the Franklin Learning Center in
055regard to it always it wasn't a matter of the available space. It was do we do we is there staff there right there wasn't enough staff to service the needs of those coming. And I asked him that question because talking about expanding programs this and that and I was concerned with the answer because I think I got a politician's answer and I don't think he ever answered the question. And my takeaway from that response and my concern is that uh this is going to become a supply and demand situation where you know there's only so much supply there and the demand will go up that these increases will continue. Just a comment and just a concern that that I have on that um for you know 3.4% 4% increase. You know, we operate in this
056district and we say in that 2 to 3% range for for an annual increase. And uh so that's my comment on 5.01. Um next one is a comment and probably a question on 5.02 looking at the capital reserve fund transfer transfer of 925,000. Uh that is the plus one% correct Mr. stuff. >> That's correct. >> Yeah. >> Uh and as we start getting into, as Mr. Bigger said, there'll be a three-year presentation. And what we this plus one that we started three years ago now? >> I think I think it's been three. >> Time flies when you're having fun. Anyway, uh you know, that plus one was designed to start building up the capacity for debt service. As Mr. Bigger mentioned, we're going to have a debt service presentation coming up here also. So in
057future years that is going to be a big difference in our annual budget. Whereas instead of plus one going to capital reserve these three years of plus one plus the future pluses and I won't steal Mr. Fry's thunder. He'll provide that to us when he gives his presentation. That'll all go to new debt service for the schools of distinction by 20 2030. So, so just a comment on that and something to for everyone to think about uh as we get in start getting into budget season. Um if the question is in your mind, I've made this statement before. Well, if we don't do a plus one transfer to capital reserve fund, how do we ever put money in the capital reserve fund? Uh maybe people get sick of my history lesson, but you know, I
058believe we do it the way we used to do it, the oldfashioned way. And we we fund capital reserve by saving money. That's what it it's excess money at the end of the year that hasn't been expended. Then you transfer that to capital reserve in lie of budgeting for capital reserve because you're going to see some some numbers with you know increased debt service that are going to make this 3.4 4% look good. So with that, any other questions or comments? Uh these items will go on um consent agenda for official vote in two weeks. All right. Item six, education and services. Uh no items there. Finance and facilities, gifts, grants, and donations. Uh again administration any questions comments on any of those individuals gifts G grant grants or donations? Board members same question. Okay,
059that will also be a action item next meeting. Policy and legislation first reading. There were two policies up that will be up for first reading. uh policy 215 promotion and retention policy 609 investments and then item 8 point well in item 8.02 2. There are three policies up there. Policy 146 for student services, policy 229, student fundraising, and policy 234, pregnant parenting married students. Same thing. Administration, any questions or comments on these five policies for first or second reading? Board members, questions or comments? Okay, you're right. Mr. Bigger is having a quick meeting today. >> Item number 10, privilege of the floor. >> Yeah, too many papers up here. >> Privilege of the floor. I'll uh invite up those members of the audience who did indicate they were going to make a public comment. If
060you forgot to check yes or write yes, don't worry, you will get an opportunity also. First one is uh Parker. Hello, my name is Parker Kristoffel. I'm speaking tonight because of the incident last Monday. The reason being is other students and I no longer feel safe at a Chambersburg school anymore. My sister Aubrey Christophel was at the school at the time of the incident. But not only that, she also knew the victim. Now I know at wait now I know I have heard multiple sides of the story and I don't know everything that went down. But I do know one thing and that's something everyone in this room knows. This should never happen again. After this incident last Monday, I really took some time to think on this and I realized that I'm not safe
061at a CD school. I have realized that at any point a student can walk into one of the schools like Cam South and walk in with anything in their bag or pockets and nobody will know till it's too late. We students and faculty should not be at this risk any longer. The district needs to regroup and take some immediate action to ensure our safety and make school a place all kids can feel safe. I believe there is a way that we can make sure our schools safe schools are safer so nobody can walk in with anything and that is metal detectors. I know the district has three weapon detecting systems currently as they have been displayed and used at football games and tonight at the basketball game and if we were to put weapon detecting
062systems in the main entrances of our schools we could provide this. For example, at cashes we have three main entrances where students enter in the morning. If we were to put metal detecting, metal detectors and X-ray bag checkers, not only will we be preventing weapons from coming into the school, but also vaping and smoking products as they are as they all have metal in them. They that'll be killing two birds with one stone. In all this, I only see two problems. I have answers for them. First, the cost. We can all agree that student safety comes first and it's worth however much it is. Second, we would be disrupting the educational setting as it would be a slow process to check all kids. For that, we can look into other schools and take after them
063and see how to do it in a quick and um orderly fashion. I believe schools like Harrisburg are ones to look at and if we need to do this as soon as possible and I highly recommend to involve students in these decisions and planning as we see things from a different perspective as students and not adults through experienced student involvement and insight work. I am on the cash student advisory council for the building principal and other students and I have been in these discussions and have made good changes through students perspective and I believe if we do this for this situation we will make the right change. Ultimately we need to take some immediate action to protect our students and faculty and it should be a number one priority. I hope after tonight the district
064takes my feedback and make students like me feel safe at school again. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh, Sally Sulov, [clears throat] thank you for that statement. You remind me of everything that you were able to say that so eloquently. >> And I'm Sally. Sally, >> I'm Sally Silkov and I'm the mother of an eighth grader at Cam South. And I just wanted to speak for the community. I feel as a community we want schools where children can both learn and feel safe and where teachers are supported and not constrained when serious behavioral concerns arise and we hope that decisions are guided primarily by the needs of the students rather than other unnecessary fears. I'm was really encouraged today to hear from um Mr. Whitman about how funds from the bipartisan safe safer communities acts
065are being used to create better options for students. And it's it's good to hear that middle school is getting the attention that it needs because I think in middle school more than in any other school in the district, kids are tossed together and they don't have they they can't go to the honors classes. They can't there they're just all tossed together. And I really came with a question and didn't mean to make a statement, but I I wanted to just encourage the district to explain the process it uses to balance the needs of students with special needs with the safety and respectful learning environment of other students and staff. >> Thank you. Mrs. Jordan. Good evening. Before I make my public statement, I will tell you it costs $38 per student in this district uh
066to educate a student. With the amount of students we have, it cost over $100 for to incarcerate a person in the Franklin County Jail. Those numbers I figured out. Uh, if we can add $2 to that $38 for safety, I'm all for it. Now, here's my statement. At your last board meeting, conversation ensued between board members Fay Goggler and Sher Diller concerning the international balori program. I had plenty of time to maul these ladies public comments over. State college dropped this program because of low enrollment numbers. I Googled this fact. contacting our superintendent in email. There are approximately 300 students in this program. There are 426 11th graders. There are 500 57 12th graders. Of that number, third 300 or 32.2% of the 11th and 12th graders chose to be in these classes. That spells
067success to me. There is no set rule for any of the students to graduate from this program. Students take various classes in middle school, high school, college, and grad school for various reasons. They choose classes with the advice and consent of their guidance counselors and parents. I read I will read you two mission statements now. One is the mission statement from the international balorate program. The international balora pro mission is to develop inquiring, knowledgeable and caring young people who help to create a better and more peaceful world through intercultural understanding and respect achieved by offering challenging international educational programs and fostering lifelong active compassionate learners who value diverse perspectives. The IB works with school schools, governments and organizations to provide rigorous globally recognized curricula, then encourage students to become globally minded actionoriented individuals. The other
068mission statement is from a well-known group of parents in the United States. It cites the following to unify, educate, and empower parents to defend and protect their parental rights at every level of government. This is the mission statement of Moms for Liberty. Both mission statements are similar in nature. Why? Good parents have always been involved in their children's education. Finally, any cuts which might be considered here in any educational program by this board should come with the understanding these cuts won't affect the school budget or our annual school tax bills. A minute cut in any budget actually means nothing. >> Mrs. Jordan, >> students are numbers. They are people. You will get the rest of my statement in email and so will a lot of other people. Thank you, Mrs. Doway. Was that a a
069check? That's a No. Okay. I'm I'm sorry. There there was a mark there, but I didn't know if that was a check mark or a line out. No. Any other member uh of the audience wish to make public comment this evening? >> Yes, ma'am. just uh so we have it for the minutes. Uh state your name please. >> Yes. My name is Christine Elmer and my son um is an eighth grader at Cam South and I have a fourth grader at um South Hamilton as well. Um and both of my children were affected by Monday. My um oldest was at the building and my youngest knew the victim. Um, and I didn't write a statement, but I um I wanted to say that um as a parent, I think I've heard a lot of different
070stories about what happened and um I don't feel like I until maybe tonight, I don't feel like I had uh much official detail after the fact. I think you guys did a great job letting us know that day. Um but um I think that it would be great to have a followup um just because I think there's a lot of unknowns and I'm hearing um rumors continue and so to have some kind of context I think would be helpful for um for the community. Um, and I think that one of the things that I observed with um this incident is that it it it it showed some of the strain um and frustrations that parents have with um the schools. And I know in the comments of Facebook, I'm sure you guys all saw all
071of that. And I also feel like I've heard some frustrations and strains um that the the school district might have with um parents showing up or engagement. And I just think that this kind of crisis offers an opportunity for community building. Um I think having um an opportunity for parents to come in or process or or hear from experts about how to talk to our kids about this would be helpful. >> Um and um and and maybe talk about um I don't I think it'd be helpful to have uh a little bit more information on how we can help you if when an event like this happens. So, um, you know, I think that it was the idea that I got was that we got back up on the horse, you know, like we didn't
072close schools, but, um, knowing that what the intention was would be would be helpful. Um, and having an opportunity to touch base with our kids, I think, would have been helpful for parents emotional state that day. maybe a 10-minute um chance where the kids can get their phones after everything's secured so that we can touch base and know they're okay and support your effort to keep them in school because I know a lot of kids, mine included, didn't make it to the end of the day. Um, and um, I don't know. I have lots of ideas, but um, one of the things that I wanted to say at first was that um, when I've talked about this with my family and friends, I think one of the things that's most powerful is the stories I've
073heard about how many staff ran towards the incident. And I just want to please thank them and thank you guys for everything. I you know I know there's a lot of feedback but um it's it's after the fact and I think you guys did a pretty good job. So thank you. >> Thank you. >> Any other members of the audience wish to make public comment this evening? Okay. Uh information uh district enrollment summary um and disposal of books, equipments, and supplies list is out there for your review. Item 12, uh new business discussion only. Uh I have one, but other board members first, please. Any any items for new business or discussion? Yes. Uh so I've observed um well first let me say I remember uh some time ago we had a meeting and discussing
074food services and uh there was a consultant brought in and I think there's probably been a lot of good work done. I'd like to know if we could get on the agenda sometime in the near future report from uh Jared Ford to let us know what improvements have been made. And coincidentally, um, I've been, I don't know if appalled is the right word, probably too strong. When I see kids, um, take a lunch tray of food and, uh, after the lunch is over, they walk to the garbage can, they throw half the food away. when people are having food insecurity in our country and in probably in our community for sure to me that is such a terrible waste and so I asked uh Mr. forward. Could he please cite the uh the regulation, the
075law, the policy that dictates why that can't be repurposed in some way? And he said uh perfect timing. The district is now thinking of a a possibility of u making a program and making that food available in some way perhaps just to other students if they feel they would like to take that home or in some other fashion. But I'd like to know if uh we could get that uh food service uh briefing on the agenda so we could hear all the good things that are going on. Thank you. Board members thoughts on that? Like to see a presentation on that? Hear a presentation? >> That sounds good. >> Okay. We'll ask the admin to put it on their list and you know when they feel there's a >> opportunity soon let's do that. Thank
076you, Mr. Edict. Any other items, new business, discussion? >> Well, I just like to say as far as the IB program, um I think there's a lot of good things that have come up with students in the IB program. Uh asking for information on financing the program and what it's costing us is is all right. I I think it's a a question that could be asked. That doesn't mean that I am against the IB program. I I I'm not saying that at all. So just you know for the future when this discussion comes around again I just wanted to clarify that >> I would uh piggyback on Dr. Diller's comment. I agree it's perfectly reasonable to ask about the finances but um in so far as um Mr. Whitman's talking about schools of distinction. To
077me, if we want to have a school of distinction, that IB program should certainly be a part of it because not only is everyone interested in being uh having a certification or a skill to work here in the community, but there are some students that aspire to go on way beyond Franklin County and make changes to this world and making it better. And I think IB program is certainly going to help in that respect. Um any other thoughts, comments on that matter? >> I'll I'll add one and then I'll have two things then. But uh I've thought about that after the the previous board discussion on it and I know previously over many years the board has discussed uh minimum class sizes. Uh, I think I look I see this as that should be the
078litmus test for for any class whether that be >> uh honors AP, IB, XYZ, whatever you want to call it. >> You know, if we had a policy that said whatever that number is, I'm not an educator. I don't know what that number is, but whatever is a a reasonable number as far as um good stewardship of resources, i.e. teachers that we we set a number and then you know as a policy and again regardless what the class is if you don't have those numbers then you don't run the class regardless of of what its prefix or suffix may be. That that's just my thoughts on the the whole IB discussion. >> I think that sounds really re reasonable. So, and I I would I would add to it maybe maybe do the ceiling too.
079What's the max? >> Yeah. >> So that you end up with a range and then there's action taken on either either side. Um but I think that's very reasonable and there's probably good reason for you know those numbers being different depending on the type of coursework. Right. Well, that ought could be put into policy perhaps and and uh the board can decide like maybe there's a class of 14 and the numbers 15. It could be brought to the board for approval if we would approve it and if there's justification that the administration feels we should still run it even if it's one off that number that we set. There should be some flexibility, but I I know from another district that that that is was in policy and it came before the board. Any class
080that was 15 below 15 was brought to the board for approval or or not. I think if we're going to be getting into that, which I mean I I understand that. I think it will help get to what I mentioned I think last year when we started talking about different things that sometimes I think in an effort to offer a lot of things we get a mile wide and we're only an inch deep. >> And so if we have that set number >> and then we say okay >> we'll pull that back in and then we're not having 65 programs where we're kind of okay at some of them. We have 40 programs and we're really really great at what we're doing there. And and I think that for me it's always quality over quantity.
081Um and I know that might upset some people if that ends up happening but at this stage in the game I think we're in the perfect situation with Mrs. Fluffy coming in doing the 9 to2 adding themies to really take a hard look a business type look at what it is that we're doing and essentially by doing that Sherry to your point if we do look at that and we set the minimum and then there's some things that don't meet that are we going to find that revenue we're looking at to put back into the in the walk to read in that K to3 so there's a lot of moving parts and I think we're really primed for it so as much data and this is for me I don't know how anyone else feels
082as we move through this data data get I don't care if It's 700 pages. Just send it to me, Kurt, so I can dig into it. So I can make an educated decision. Mr. Nelson and Miss Cash Dollar, everybody, just just send it all because the more I can see what you're seeing, the easier it is for me to support what it is that you're recommending. >> Yeah, I I agree with what you're saying and that that pretty much is the point that I was trying to allude to when I brought that discussion up. As a matter of fact, one of the things that if we were not going to soon be in our larger uh primary, etc. uh schools, I would like to see highlighting of a different color in our district enrollment summary
083for those uh classrooms that are under subscribed. On our enrollment summary, there is a highlighting if there's a classroom that is overs subscribed, but there's no highlighting to point out how many classrooms are under subscribed. I don't know whether it's worth asking for that to be added to that enrollment summary because as I've said before, one of the things I'm looking forward to whenever we move in a couple years to the Green Village um you know four to six, etc. We're going to see uh less of that under subscribed and overs subscribed. But right now, if you look at the district enrollment, it catches your eye whenever you see the overs subscribed. You have to look to see the undersubscribed. So, if it's convenient to make a different colored highlight uh on that enrollment summary,
084if the um classroom is undersubscribed, I would suggest that it be done, but it's not terribly important to me because, as I say, I think we're headed to solving that problem. Anyhow, >> I uh I just want to speak up and um say that I love data and I am hoping that it's less than 700 pages. [laughter] >> Me too. >> You know, >> no Warren Peace novels. [laughter] >> There's a lot of grass. Another previous item uh in new business and discussions only. Um we had a discussion about uh you know the the board member training and Mr. Bigger doing an aspect of that and just asked him maybe provide us an update here this evening. >> Yeah, I went back to my old binder that I did in a previous district went through
085the process. Uh it take me about two months for me to get approved. Um and then we would do either the uh new board member training or the other one. and I don't want to do both, but I could do one of them. Um, but however, we had a superintendent meeting last week and I took the same topic to the county superintendents and we asked the IU to become an approved provider and provide the trainings over in Franklin County. And so, they're going to work on that process so that Franklin County board members in the county, new and or uh reelected, could go through the program right here with county other members. So, you can have me do it or we can have the IU do it. Both are available. They were open to it.
086The county superintendents were very excited about other board members from other school districts sitting with other board members from Franklin County. >> So, those are two options that I bring back to you. Um, so you guys give me some feedback on how you would like to proceed. >> I say go with the IU because I want my superintendent >> to be able to focus on everything we're doing here instead of that. I mean, I've went to the PSBAs, you know, I mean, it's there. I know it's up to Mechanicsburg, whatever, you know, but if if if it's going to be a program, I'd prefer the LIU to do it rather than have you devote your time and energy to it when we got a lot going on here in the district. That's my personal opinion.
087>> I agree with Mr. McKe. Well, and I think there's an advantage regardless of whether it's a South Central Pennsylvania interaction that we've had whenever we do the PSBA or whether it just be a Franklin County. I think there's an advantage to interacting with more than just our nine board members. Um, learning from other people that our problems are in some cases minor compared to theirs. Um, as a matter of fact, one of the people that was in our session talked about having classrooms in a basement um room that sounded pretty um shady. [laughter] So, you know, it it really does have a an opportunity for interaction with other districts and I I would have no problem with it being other districts in Franklin County versus a wider area. But >> yeah, we could take
088advantage of both. >> Yeah. Abs. >> Absolutely. Being a a member of PSBA, we could go if we wanted to to theirs as an addition or in place of Yes. think I'm see I'm hearing that as a consensus and I know I'm in the minority so I guess that's what we'll do but I mean I I don't disagree with you but I look at it as I think in a small group when you know we're going to talk about you know schoolboard activities uh schoolboard means methods being a school board I think it's great being in your own group I I think you I think we can all be more candid with one another as we are here this evening as we do at times in executive session. Uh I think that's I think that's
089paramount. But uh if the it sounds like to me like the consensus [clears throat] is to do countywide. Uh sure the heck beats driving to Harrisburg. I drive there every day. Don't need to do it again. I guess too I'm just thinking uh for those people who need trained maybe maybe pull them and see what works best for their schedules too. I think that would be an additional thing to do because I know some of us are already trained some of us aren't. Okay. So I'm just asking a question is this would be strictly for uh like what we get at PSBA. Um only yeah the you would be delivering the content however they see fit to do that. But it seems to me that there are opportunities throughout a 4-year term to get new
090information and uh maybe you know that be another opportunity so it's not just going to be one and done. So that's my only thought about that. I would think that they could offer it as an option for board members who were not just elected or reelected. And if people wanted to attend uh when it wasn't their required training, but just wanted to participate, it would seem as though that could be an option. Yeah, you're doing it. So that adds to the consensus. >> I am too. >> That's what it sounds like to me. >> Can we do it at Stanley Avenue? >> It's here at Crew Tech. Actually, Crew Tech seems to be the logical place for a lot of things. >> That's even closer. That's better. Yeah. And then the followup to that, just
091um the the the county also wants to get back to county induction with the IU where all our new teachers come together at least once a year and work together as a county. We do share a lot of our teachers that used to be county induction. Everybody went to do their own thing, but it makes no sense to have every school district doing their own thing. So, um when we share teachers all the time. So, that was the piggyback conversation from the board training was how about county induction for teachers. So, we're going down a couple paths with the IU that are very beneficial for us and the county >> and we're the furthest from the IU. So, we always get the less service. So, I'm happy that the IU is willing to come this
092way a little little more. As a person that's worked in Adams and Franklin County and not York County, I can say that York County usually gets all the services and the further away from York County get the less services. And you can tell Chris Marches I said that too. [laughter] >> Chris Mares says that county superintendent work well better than any group he's seen. Good to know. >> That's why we've been understaffed at the Franklin Learning Center, I guess. Huh. >> Exactly. >> Any other items for new business discussion? Just to let you know, there will be I uh Chris mentioned, but uh February the 20th, I think, is the date that the uh career center is going to offer a tour and uh orientation to what goes on at the career center. So, if
093you want to get that on your calendar, if you're interested, uh more information will be provided. But um Leslie Schuman gave me that date the other day. >> Okay. Any other items? >> Hearing none. Mean journ. Thank you.