March 11, 2025 Committee Of The Whole Meeting

001e e e go ahead and call this evening's meeting to order for Tuesday March 11th uh Committee of the whole for Chambersburg School District uh board of directors if you would please rise and join me with the Pledge of Allegiance followed by a Moment of Silence to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you excuse me prior to this evening's meeting uh the board did meet an executive session uh to discuss some real estate matters and uh Personnel matters with that uh 3.01 superintendent report Mr begar thank you Mr Norcross um tonight uh presentations we have uh Architects here to go over some updates related to the grade configuration and schools of Distinction if you

002remember most of the Fall was public forums and Communications about our schools of Distinction one toown one Trojan team and how can we move our school district forward looking at some options for educational Improvement but also some great configuration changes that can lend itself towards uh the educational improvements so tonight you're going to begin to see the the work related to that decision of the grade configuration that we agreed to and what that looks like in reality we have a lot of decisions still to make but uh thanks for your time tonight you're going to see a lot of PowerPoint slides uh and your brain will hurt tonight and to use Ed's words the heavy lift you'll feel it after tonight but also I know our Architects very well you're going to be impressed with

003their presentations and the quality of the information they're bringing tonight end of report thank you Chris sir superintendent beggar we took heavy lift out of the vocabulary though well your m i do we talked about memory um so item 3.02 president's report um just uh want to talk a little bit about item 4.02 that you'll be up on the agenda here shortly but um if you remember those of you who follow the board meetings or even the board members uh I don't know about two months ago uh under the new business session section we were discussing about these informational sessions and I made a public comment then about uh you know yes we can do those it's a matter I've always believed this uh whether the board does a workshop individ you know session yes

004by the Sunshine Law we can do it but I always go back to should we do it and I just like to thank uh What uh Chris made this decision I fully support it uh I didn't even twist as arm to do it um but uh if you go back to our last meeting with the presentation we had from the special ed group with uh Sheree and and Dr goody U that that very well could have been what the board was look was looking to do as an informational session where we would sit back there and we get this presentation and it's great and we can do that but I didn't go back to my sort of my Benchmark should we do it and I thought that was a great presentation because for many reasons

005but one of which is because the public got to hear it not just the team of 10 so with that instead of doing more of these these information sessions on the other side of the hallway that's why 4.02 is on the public agenda comment so it's going to be information session uh not just for the team of 10 but also for the public so I just like to publicly thank Chris for doing that and uh for the record I didn't even twist his arm he called me okay item 4.01 this fella isn't using heavy lift schools of Distinction report so I shouldn't use those two words I'm teasing you I mean not back so good evening board and public in preparation for the schools of Distinction of 2020 or yeah 2020 we're already passed the

0062030 uh We've uncovered three main areas and reasons why we need to do different grade configuration and I'm just giving the public a little bit of understanding because we this has been a while since we've heard this one the elementary is out of space in their classrooms two the middle schools have infrastructure needs and three the high school has Pro programmatically needs for 3 to 500 students in order to complete the grade configurations building feasibilities um studies were needed to be completed in January and February we approved two architects for the district to do uh work for us uh Crabtree Roar ball and rlps Crabtree is from mechanicburg and rlps is from Lancaster the reason we are using the two different Architects uh is that the district has different aspects of our facilities being reviewed

007currently the first is an elementary 4 to six building uh then a redesign of a school for 7even and8 um a future ignite um and I'm quote unquote ignite for that for secondary and operation study to consolidate our buildings and grounds Food Service transportation and technology and then a review of our athletic facilities for our teams in the athletic department you will hear from both Architects uh firms this evening and regarding the 4 to 7 and then later on you'll hear for about the 7 and8 study we will continue refin and then bring all those other things that I just listed above together as a whole package at this time I would like to introduce the Crabtree R balls group of young men and uh Mr Anthony colto and Mr John Billa thanks par y

008don't normally get the young part that's kind of nice thank you um so tonight uh what we'd like to do is uh I'm going to start with a reminder of the ground that we've covered uh it was about a year ago uh when Mr bigger reached out to us and we started down this path and this was hard to do in one slide uh I'll say ground we covered no lifting reference but started with really focusing on what the district goals were we looked at project enrollment Dr with them couldn't be here this evening but not only both current and projected um re-evaluated and looked back over the last 30 years we've been working at the district for 20 perhaps but that look back 30 to see all those transitions that have occurred helped us

009really focus on why you're doing what you're doing uh the visioning exercise of understanding what the deficiencies are now and what you want to accomplish uh was a big focus and the administrative team uh the staff that we met with were very aligned with understanding uh what each of those items were great alignment was a big Focus we've talked about that pretty extensively uh walk through buildings uh giving you some interpretation of the conditions which I think everyone is aware of and understanding where you are in terms of being able to provide space for those kids with that vision of what that future program looks like uh we had a lot of meetings and supported the administrative team's efforts with the co the staff the community uh and all that Outreach then we started talking

010about costs and understanding uh levels of improvement uh whether it's a new building or uh ad Rena as well as what your financial parameters were that were made very clear to us which should always be an objective of a study we talked about a timeline and then of course uh I think at our November meeting where we really focused in on what's that option and that grade configuration looked like to uh we use the analogy of check boxes and we think that you've checked a lot of them if not all of them um and we intend to continue to do that as we move forward so that last year's effort shaping uh the financial parameters some conceptual design gr configuration is really now where the design process begins so uh Mr kck's role uh continue

011to be work with me as well as uh Mark and the administrative team to really take you through the uh actual design process all the way through um occupancy of completion of construction so having said that one slide that was our last year's effort I'm going to turn it over to Anthony to walk us through um our thought process moving forward good evening so as John mentioned uh what I'm going to do is give you a highlevel overview of the design process on development of the 46 Intermediate School uh so you've come to the point in the study where you reviewed a lot of options and you identifi the projects that you want to move forward with with the 46 Intermediate School being the first one so I'm going to take you through u a

012a little bit of a narrative on what to expect on each phase of design through bidding then through construction we're going to talk a little bit about Community engagement in an act 34 hearing that's going to be required for for the project then talk about some of the work that we've been doing with the administration and what those next steps are and then they'll open it up for some questions at the end so this is this is for the 46 building uh this is a project that uh is serving for some inspiration to your district and a a school that uh Mr bigger is familiar with that this is a project that we did for Dallas town uh Area School District um this is an in also an intermediate school and the concept was this

013is multiple schools within a school we actually are um in the works right now of scheduling a tour for the administration to go through the building uh this was built in 2010 you can see it has an enrollment of excuse me a capacity of 1,800 students so the idea behind this school is that each of those academic wings that you see they each operate independently with their own Administration but then they have shared spaces for their big box assemblies um needs such as cafeteria gymnasium and an auditorium one of the things that's very important with this school is student safety and vehicular traffic so there is a Bus Loop that is at the end of each of the academic Wings where students enter in through a secure vestibule adjacent to the administration then there is

014a separate parent drop off um next slide is just to show you the the outline of the classroom configuration one of the things that we have been teaching excuse me discussing with the administration is um how do they want to group their classes together whether it's team teaching and been receiving a lot of good feedback and that way we can make some subtle changes to this plan but this is going to be a prototype this is just a prototype that this is just a conceptual design um you see that dash line that kind of separates the public spaces on the bottom side from the private academic spaces to the north side and you'll see that area shaded in green that is each of the administration Wing uh there ministration area and this is a twostory

015this is these are two story wings that they also have the ability to have future expansion on them as well so we're going to use this as some inspiration as for your school when we start the design development it will fit uh in your existing conditions on your site so again there will be some changes but this really is serving as kind of the idea the big idea so I want to talk a little bit about all the design phases so there's approximately three or four design phases the programming and the schematic design are usually uh included into one phase but then you move into a design development and then the construction documents so the schematic design this is when we're taking all the data that you give us from your educational program some of

016the visioning exercises that may have been done during the study or ones that we can can have during this phase and then we're going to develop this concept so we're going to start to uh look at that existing site to implement your educational program into a building organization that's similar to Dallas town on your specific site once we get through that phase we go through a refinement phase with design development where we're bringing in more Consultants so we'll need mechanical electrical Plumbing Engineers Structural Engineers here this also gives us time to talk to more individuals more staff members from the district so we would start having discussions with faculty we would start having discussions with it with your food service director then when we receive all of that information and we really understand the scope

017of work then we enter into the construction document phase where this is starting to um produce the final documents that's going to be put out to bid then when we're out to bid that usually takes about 2 months a month to bid to publicly bid the project receive the bids have a post bid assessment with the administration then review it to you for you to approve an intent to award to the low bid contractors and then once that's done we issue a notice proceed shovels in the ground and then construction begins so so I have a couple of couple of Graphics that are in here and I just want to um make sure everybody understands that the graphics that we're going to show they're not what we're proposing for your school it's just from another

018project so you understand the expectation of the level of drawing that you should be seeing at each phase of design so as I noted a a very important part of the schematic design process is establishing an educational program during the study uh we had we had developed a very preliminary educational program based upon of some information that we had received from the administration understanding what your enrollment projections are now we're now what we need to do is a lot of our discussions that we've had is verifying the educational program so we want to talk to special education director we want the administration to also have some discussions with the Department department heads so we can build the educational program of spaces so we understand all of your special education needs how many classrooms what are

019the sizes that you need how uh how many students do you need in these spaces so they're appropriately designed then we'll also bring in a civil engineer to do a site survey and start to understand all the county and Municipal approvals because in the end and the municipal approvals are going to dictate the overall schedule of design um and as I noted depending on your site we're going to take that prototype and those ideas and make sure it's it fits well within those existing conditions of your site so we'll develop these plans somewhat to this level uh they'll be colorcoded based upon the department whether it's General classroom special education your related arts the assembly spaces so these are some of the types of Graphics that you could expect to see in the next update

020or so then when we move into that refinement phase uh in design development we're going to have a lot more discussion with uh more staff and a big part of of that effort is understanding all the code implications so we have to design to the code making sure that Fire and Life Safety uh in the building is compliant we do have an in in-house code inspector that reviews our drawings and then Flags anything with our design so that we feel very prepared when we issue drawings for the building permit that everything that is in the design is code compliant so that's something that we'll start early on in the design development phase process we'll do that final check of the educational program program that happens that will occur when we start having interior design layout

021meetings with your faculty so we want to hear from the building users and our interior designers and our architectural staff will meet with uh a steering committee of the faculty to help lay out those spaces we'll also start bringing in all those other consultants and start to design of those Building Systems and making sure that we're coordinating all of these different systems within this design another big part is the civil engineering and all the efforts of making sure that we have any zoning um any zoning requirements what's the storm water look like taking us through the Land Development going through County Conservation approvals and and just to start the site approval process and have an idea of what the anticipated timeline is going to look like to receive those approvals cuz those appr approvals will

022be needed prior to starting construction and then as I noted the Final Phase construction documents this is really when we're starting to finalize the drawing Set uh to be ready for uh for bidding uh so this is that final coordination of all those integrated building uh systems and then this is around the time that we should be receiving all the necessary permits required for construction so you can see these Graphics where these previous ones were just more of a white mode we're not looking just yet at a color scheme or the materials or pattern or Texture but when we get into the construction document phase then we're developing uh we're developing those things we're reviewing them with the staff um and we'll have we'll have these images that you'll be able to see later on

023in in during the process and really get a good idea and feel for the space so as far as a duration on how long each of these phases should take approximately two months for the programming and the conceptual design um excuse me for the schematic design then four months or so for design development at the end of design development and the beginning of construction documents we're going to have to do what's called an act 34 public hearing anytime um a district embarks on new construction or an addition that exceeds 20% of the existing square footage you're required to have this that you can share with your community the need and the details of the project so that will be something that we'll talk a little bit later in this in the timeline in the community

024engagement and then we're looking at about four months for that final preparation of the construction document set so it can be put out to bid but as I noted all of this is going to come down to the municipal approval timeline we currently have rfps out for civil engineering firm once we receive those um we will review them with the administration on who they want to select and then when we get them on board they're going to have to do some due diligence uh to start setting up for a survey talking to the municipality and understanding what their process is and the potential timeline they're going to be part of the design team we're putting the schematic uh the schematic floor plans together and then present a sketch plan to the municipality and then really

025start to understand that approval process and the timeline so in a perfect world we could be done potentially in a year uh with getting shovels in the ground by next summer but as I noted we just have to get that civil engineer on board and then in the coming months we'll know a little bit more have a better idea and we'll provide you that update on what that time frame is going to look like so as I noted uh what is going to be required is an act 34 public hearing this is uh school code public school code law and the purpose of the hearing as I noted is is to inform the inform the public of the need for the project they also uh there are some requirements ments the Department of Education uh

026wants you to include in the presentation any options that you considered prior to selecting the particular option that you moved forward with uh a description and a narrative of what's included in the project so we'll show floor plans potentially some images as well we understand that that information could be very um there's a a safety aspect uh along with that so we'll be very careful what's being shared with the public and their access to it uh we also need to include the estimated construction cost and the total project cost so all the other items that go along with not just the bricks and mortar but your design professional fees your perming fees uh testing and inspection uh any other due diligence that you would need for traffic study or site survey uh how you're going

027to uh budgets that you set aside for your furniture and Equipment within the building so all those will be included in the ACT 34 booklet then another portion of the presentation is going to be from your financial advisor on how it's going to be funded and if there's any local tax impact and how it's the overall financing and and um the payback for it then we'll we also need to have a let the Community provide any comments or questions and that could be done at the hearing also there is a 30-day period that before you would act or vote on anything for the project any written comment that would uh be received back from from the community you give them that time frame so that first step that we'll need to do is with the

028district and your solicitor and with your financial advisor will prepare the ACT 34 booklet then the then the board would adopt a resolution for a maximum building construction cost and a total project cost once you've approved that it goes into a uh an advertisement for when the hearing is going to be held it's a minimum of 20 days then we'll have the hearing and then after the hearing there's that 30-day waiting period so I know this is a lot but this is still this is still a ways away until we would go through this process so I will have some other presentations just as a reminder and with some definitive dates um on all these different steps so some of our next steps uh as I noted as we've been having meetings with the administration

029to verify the educational program so that is ongoing one once we wrap that up and we really understand um all the spaces that you envision to be in this school we'll start that design for the schematic the civil engineer RFP will be coming in this week first thing that we want to get them to do is this is the site survey and any other due diligence on understanding the zoning or um uh any traffic impact studies that they'll have to do the other thing that we're planning for is doing some more visioning exercise exercises with your students and your faculty so that we can get them together and hear what your students have to say hear what your faculty have to say um and see where they have similarities and differences on what they feel

030their school should represent and uh how the spaces should be utilized that's going to be done some time in uh April or May and then in June we have scheduled a workshop with some of the faculty to develop some educational specifications which is essentially the design intent of their classroom spaces um so it's a little arbitrary right now because we don't have that schematic plan for them to understand where they're going to be located what are the definitive sizes of their rooms but we can take them through uh an early exercise visioning exercise so they can give us some of the ideas so that when we do meet with them in the design development phase we have a pretty good understanding of how they want their layouts um to be uh to be designed I

031know that this was extremely high level I was probably talking very fast as well but I will repeat some of this in in future presentations but if you have any questions question sure yeah one question I have something that stood out to me on the drawings I'm curious to know how much you're thinking through the outdoor space um I've uh it looks beautiful inside the drawings we have and that makes me want to spend time inside but on a day like today I want to be outside as much as possible and I've heard teachers that have said I wish we had outdoor classrooms and I just wonder you know if you if you design on the front end it's a lot harder to do that kind of thing on the back end of a project

032so um yeah what are there options for outdoor space where teachers could utilize the space when it's gorgeous like today I also think about Playgrounds and recess uh I think about Pavilions Y is that something that can be incorporated definitely you know we we want to promote a holistic design that's not just interior but also exterior as well uh in addition to the Dallas Town Intermediate School tour that we're planning with the administration we also have another school that's located in in Lancaster uh that has a lot of outdoor spaces for um for for lunchtime uh for breakout for classrooms for art for special education we want to use the outdoors as a teaching tool making sure that there is potential for technology outside uh then and then even even spaces for um after school

033events uh I know that this particular District they had even talked about was it's a middle school they even talked about having one of their dances in this Courtyard space so that will be something that will continue to uh talk with the administration about and what their vision is for what these spaces will look like and make sure that it's implemented and that we inter we coordinate that work with our civil engineer my second question is about um we have a amazing career magnet school and Career Tech school and I just wonder what have you seen this might be for the administration as much as for the Architects but are there ways that we could get those students involved in this project so that it becomes I I I understand that can be complicated to

034pull off but I just think it feels like a missed opportunity if they're not engaged in some capacity all these we're preparing kids for the trades and here we have this big project and I I get it like I think an optimal learning situation is probably something smaller right it's almost so massive that it's hard to include them but I I just wonder if there's a place for that and how we could potentially include them even if it's in small ways um I think it could be meaningful and create Buy in this is something we helped to build um I think that can be powerful I've worked with Mr bigger in a former District and I know that he is a creative thinker and I can think of a couple of examples that we did

035MH that will definitely brainstorm some ideas and uh the age group's a little more challenging yeah I think on this one at four to six I think you're 70 I I really meant with high school oh okay yeah yeah yeah all right yeah it also takes the right Subs yes to say We'll partner on this aspect of the job or yeah but there's probably still an opportunity despite this being a 46 hard hat days when constru is significantly Beyond or during design we've shared our model with the IT department so there's lots of opportunities okay cool yeah I've got one quick question please um I don't know it's the first I've heard about the teacher student visioning exercise I wonder if you might say a few more words about that is it an online survey

036instrument or is it a group group or how does that work sure yeah it's it is a it's a group exercise so what we'll do is um we'll meet with the students first and I think we're going to actually go to a couple of schools correct so um different schools have some representation during this uh during this exercise so what we'll do is we'll take a series of of photos that we feel relate to your project that they may be published work or photos of schools that we have done um and then we'll we'll ask the students we'll give the students 10 green stickers and 10 red stickers to go up to the photos take a look at them and put a sticker on something that they like or something that maybe they don't like

037and we want them just kind of Envision themselves in that space so maybe it may be something with the furniture maybe it's something with the color or the pattern or just the overall volume of the space um then we ask the teachers to do the same thing uh we we'll talk to both groups afterwards so we can hear from them but we also encourage the students to kind of talk amongst themselves while they're going through this exercise but um we'll give them time to share their ideas we'll document it then we'll go through the same exercise with the teachers with the teachers it's not just so much on the the Aesthetics but one of the things we ask the teachers specifically is we want to get some feedback on how you group Learners together that's

038that's very important so you know it's not just the large group but the small group and the individual and so are these spaces that you're seeing that you feel are they flexible for the large group and do you have those areas for a small group breakout um or for some individual reflection and then we hear back from the from the teachers we document that and then we kind of use that as just some inspiration for the design that we're going to do thank you is there any possibility and of course I'm I'm more of a visual person that the uh and I know you have a lot with zoom and with uh the graphics and that where the this faly can visit the school like Dallas town and and see it in person I mean

039that as a former teacher also that's what I'd love to see it in person so I don't know and I know you can't take all the faculty or whatever but a a group to really see it you know it looks like a beautiful design uh you know that's my question yeah there are ways and there are some of the designs that we've done where um after construction we've taken a drone to at least fly around the ex interior with the software the rendering software we have we can do videos and flythroughs from the exterior into the interior um so we can we can share that uh with the faculty with the administration potentially even with the board and we're going to arrange for some tours as well just to see it in person so thank

040you thank you that's good C can you speak a little bit about Grand View just um just bring that up as far as it's the discussion point on certainly the Civil part and also a discussion we have to have at some point right so in terms of Land Development the one thing that we want to make sure is that you know with board consent that when we're sitting down with the municipal folks that they understand with the acreage that you have available and what the district's considering in lie of uh trying to replace Grand View somehow or renovate in place which we've discussed the logistics of that that the entire Land Development even if the board chooses to pause perhaps on Grand View that the initial Land Development plan that is submitted shows consideration of

041that school because it will impact traffic and everyone's going to be interested in what those volume counts look like uh storm water issues um lot coverage and so forth so we want to go in with a comprehensive plan so that Land Development is addressing and giving you the opportunity that because of the duration of the 4 through six you could pause and choose to uh initiate a new replacement school and that Land Development process which Anthony pointed out is the longest time frame should be in place that we could begin the design and just go straight to construction and all of those things should have been factored in and given consideration during the planning process thank you sure not really a question just be careful it doesn't look too much like a spaceship well if

042we can get away from South which I'd call Star Trek Enterprise we'll be happy but you know back back to the Playfield question I know when Mr bigger brought up that and we showed if you look back to probably the November presentation I think we started to drop some of those outdoor play spaces in and it really shows you the scale of almost the football field between the wings uh the scale of this building and how we're going to try to break it down because you've all shared some concern about a building this big those outdoor spaces could be very pivotal to uh helping separate groups different sizes get outside and so forth but uh absolutely thank you thank you you you thank you okay item 4.02 car and counseling thank you work for you

043thank you welcome everyone if you don't know me my name is Lindsay Leonard I am currently serving in the role as nth grade school counselor at cashes helping our freshman transition at Cash cashes and I'm also the head counselor for the district I also wear the hat of a parent I have two kids in the district one at sixth grade at cams North and one at 9th grade who's on my case load as a ninth grader at cashia so that's that's a weird jux toos right there uh just as a parent I will say you don't get the Schoolboard in front of you too often and I like to share positivity just with my own two kids they've been in Chambersburg School District since kindergarten and they've really benefited from our academics and the opportunities

044that they have in academically but also extracurricular um opportunities that I know that you guys support as well my daughter is an athlete so she's in two sports and my son is really into music and drama at cams North so I just want to thank you for that now moving on to school counselor updates uh school counselor updates we have a lot of exciting things happening and I want to go over three main areas for you uh car Solace U we were going to go over an overview of what car Solace is we're going to go over some data and then at the end we're going to talk about the additions to the elementary school counselor program so car Solace uh that's something that the district partnered with uh starting in August we got that

045contract and early fall into September I had the opportunity to help our school counselors and our school social workers across the district on board with that new program car Solus is being used districtwide to help our students and our parents and even faculty members access Community Resources school counselors and the social workers as well we help our families find things like outpatient counseling any type of psychiatric services and even if there's a drug and alcohol support service they need treatment in that area care Solace helps uh those families and students find Services how it works is care Solace counselors social work were very you know good at making connections with our families and our students when we see a need we can talk with our families get permission to do a referral car Solace calls

046that a warm handoff we refer that family to car Solace and then the care uh Solace team assists the family in connecting with Community Resources if their need is grief and loss if they're having a drug and alcohol issue if their child is really struggling with ADHD and they need uh a counselor in the community to help with those sorts of things care Solace then comes alongside the family and helps them access services this isn't anything new this is something school counselors and school social workers do what car Solace does and makes it very unique is it helps families overcome barriers we've always made referrals but it's really been up to the family then to make those phone calls try to find hey can I get into this psychiatrist here can I get into this

047drug and alcohol program here and there are unique barriers that families especially since postco that they've encountered things like long long wait lists I'm sure you've all heard especially postco trying to get their child into counseling say at Keystone there's a 2-year weit list so that's really you know something that care Solace can come alongside of family and help them find other resources that might not have a 2-year weight list helps with insurance is um families can have a list of referrals but they have to call and and they have to say this is the insurance I have K Solus takes that time out they do that work for the family they find out what the insurance uh that the family has and then they make calls to resources they have those resources to know

048there's not a waiting list here and they take your insurance which is really great another issue when we make referrals in our community with our families is language barriers we have a growing Haitian Creole uh community and obviously a large Spanish-speaking population and there's not a lot of providers in our area that serve those families so car Solace has some virtual resources and even some local that can connect families in their home language which is amazing and transportation families often struggle if they're working second shift maybe they just don't have gas money to drive to Shippensburg to uh an outpatient counseling appointment they can help find virtual services or uh resources closer to their home home so they can access those Services easier um so that's something that's been really great to be able to

049help our families in a more in-depth way now looking at data car Solace does give mid uh gives monthly data I pulled this data about two weeks ago so um basically looking at our impact report referrals started coming in once we got everyone onboarded on the system a few came in September really our counselors and social workers started making those referrals in October and I pulled this data about end of February so if you look at that we've had 138 referrals across the district uh we have 60 uh 6,587 total Communications 34 appointments that were made and then 16 Anonymous searches so something I didn't mention earlier some families um if they're very private maybe certain culturally they want to keep their personal lives they don't want to share share that with the school the

050school counselor there's a unique Chambersburg code that we've blasted out to families so they can go on and search on their own they don't even have to come to the counselor if they don't feel comfortable or the social worker uh and they can go ahead and use those Services um for free and get connected an example I'll use is uh worked actually with Mr Raber's Folks at uh earlier maybe around December January unique situations that were happening with some of your students students and families and worked with some of his folks and I gave that specific code to some of his staff there that if he was working with families who needed support services for some trauma that they were experiencing maybe didn't feel comfortable sharing with their counselors or social workers they could access

051those services and that's that was amazing that was a great way to partner with our Community Partnerships and you're welcome and times saved when you look at this data and if you've ever shadowed a school counselor or School social worker you know we're hopping we're just bouncing bouncing from thing to thing and uh we want to spend most of our time on Direct Services with students so these referrals while they are important often that extra support that care Solace is giving to families those are after hours after contractual hours for counselors and social workers contacts that are being made in the evenings on the weekends so if you look at that 157 total hour saved that is is either reallocating counselor's time Direct Services to students or just things that we're not able to get

052to after hours so those contacts are really being made after hours where care Solace is emailing they're texting they're calling they're making contact UM with staff they keep us in the loop of where our students and families are with referrals they're contacting providers and also that direct contact with family uh interesting piece of data I wanted to pull the age of students that are being referred it's a little higher in the adolescence uh about 34% in children and then adults can also be served so if I get a phone call from a family member they're calling about their ninth grade student and they have academic issues and they're concerned about their student in the course of our conversation the parent maybe shares hey we're having some marital trouble we really need to find a marriage

053counselor can you help me Mrs Leonard I can make a car Solace referral and then car Solace can walk them through how to get their marriage counseling uh in their family to help support them um ethnicity that kind of breaks down similar to our demographic there um in our district which makes me very very happy I like seeing that data we want that to mirror our demographics some of you might ask what kind of issues are youth dealing with um this piece of data really does follow what we see in practice in our schools K through 12 a lot of anxiety and depression is issues with our teens a lot of trauma that children and adolescents are facing in their homes disruptive behavior a lot of ADHD marital suicide and then some OCD and bipolar

054and eating disorders so we as mental health professionals in the school we're the first line of defense but we're not the expert we're the Jack of all trades but we're not the expert so care Solace helps these families get to the experts in the community so they can get outpatient services one thing I wanted to point out was insurances we do have a number of lower socioeconomic students in our district which means we have a lot of students and families who are covered by Medicaid and when you look at that data there's a number of insurances that have are represented here that fall under the Medicaid umbrella there's private insurances but they also help families that don't have insurance you can see there's a number there 6% was no insurance so they found providers that

055had a sliding skill SC that they could afford so moving on I also want to tell you something exciting that you were very instrumental in we have three additional elementary school counselors that are being that have been hired we went through that hiring process and as a result of earlier in the year the Staffing and enhancement uh funds we were able to create these positions the goal in this is obviously to improve counselor to student ratio the uh recommendations nationally is one counselor for every 250 students and before we started this process I had a counselor at Ben Chambers she had 1 to 584 I want to say so our numbers weren't quite in line there but as we're adding these additional counselors you'll see that we're getting closer which is really exciting so elementary

056school counselors uh what do they do they focus on helping students with their academic career and social and emotional needs uh adding these additional counselors helps um effectively align those counselor services in a more Equitable manner for our elementary students we looked at student to counselor ratio and we also looked at buildings who needed a little more support because of their High need specialized programs such as the autistic support classrooms emotional support classrooms some of our behavioral support classrooms and we also gave some additional help um to the building that had higher rates of childline referrals you know certain buildings just have higher rates of childline referrals those kids are going through a lot of chaos experiencing a lot of trauma and it's good to just have a lower counselor uh ratio to provide more

057support how we divided that out is new hire one is going to be split between Hamilton Heights and Ben Chambers and as you can see that counselor ratio there that I was close I said 584 was 585 to one at Ben Chambers 56 C 2:1 at Hamilton Heights we're going to add into additional counselor there that counselor is going to be split between those buildings and going to focus on fourth and fifth grade so if you look how that number went down uh there's going to be 382 students per counselor between those two buildings and the counselor is going to be working a split schedule Monday Wednesday Tuesday Thursday and Alternate Friday so I think that's going to be great support for those buildings the new higher 2 is going to be split between fville

058and Scotland and those numbers were 480 and 458 to one and when you add an additional counselor shared between those two buildings it takes that number down to 312 to one which really is getting close to that 250 goal which is wonderful and again they're going to be working with fourth and fifth grade students at those buildings and the new hire three this is where it gets a little tricky new higher three currently we have a shared counselor at um Marian and Andrew beanan that counselor is going to be moved to Maran full-time 5 days a week which will be great that counselor's case load currently is 542 to1 and her case load is going to go down to 295 to1 then the new hire will be split between four days at Andrew Buchanan and

059one day at South Hamilton so there'll be two counselors between those three buildings taking that number down to 365 to1 so as you can see our numbers have really decreased and we're highlighting the buildings that have high numbers along with specialized programs what kind of questions do you have I know I talked a lot as well but what can I clear up or anything that you might want to have a followup yeah go ahead I had a question one quick on the um what is it 250 to one yes standard is that standard is that average like across United States or is that what's optimal it's what's optimal so the American school counselor Association is our governing board of ethics and program orentation for school counselors across the country and that's what they recommend is

060250 to1 so we're getting there and you know some elementaries you know have 700 there's been a time when I met with our elementary counselors I meet with them once a month and when I met with them they had heard that they might get some extra help and when it was confirmed and it was voted upon and they found out where they were getting three Elementary counselors they were speechless and trust me they're never speechless they were so thankful because they're so dedicated to our our young kiddos and sometimes they feel like they're pulled in so many directions they can't meet the needs so we're they're very ecstatic very ecstatic yeah Lindsay I've seen in the last year or so on TV commercials advertising online or remote counseling services does care soless prer those kinds

061and in your opinion I'm assuming they're very effective correct so yes they will they do have resources in person here in our community they they're looking between Green Castle Shippensburg Chambersburg that's a good radius to people to get to services but they do offer referrals to Virtual cuz some families that's best they don't have transportation you know it's just hard maybe they're working two jobs they're working evenings so they will do both inperson referrals or virtual and when we give that warm handoff we can write in our notes like family's looking for virtual services or family wants in person thank you yes I have a question do do the students have the ability to have the same counselor in school and as they move into salus at the same time yes they will keep us

062as their school counselor and when they're looking for more permanent long-term counseling they would then have an additional support in the community as well so they can meet long-term and do those more individualized Focus sessions yes okay other questions thank you all right thank you thank you Mrs L thank you item 4.03 Mr long Dr Long excuse me it's okay it's Mark yes so I'd like to uh introduce our next group of Architects who um are really another partner to us and a team member so um our rlps is from Lancaster um this is going to be the first time that they present to you um so gentlemen um Mr Chris linky and Mr Andy beden this is thank you sir hello good evening I know it's a special night two architectural firms and one

063night big night for you so we'll get started um we're here to talk about the Middle School study with s eth grade in one building but before we get to that point um Mark beat us to the punch uh my name is Chris linky I'm a partner at rlps Architects um I've registered Architects for over 30 years um and like to introduce an energetic senior project architect for our firm Andy Bladen excellent thank you Chris Andy Bladen here uh I've been had the pleasure of Designing educational facilities for the last 20 years which is kind of hard to believe I can say that Chris it just means to have a little bit of experience there not as much as you but uh I'm excited to get to know your District we've already spent a lot

064of good time getting to know how you educate and how you run your buildings so just two words words about rlps Architects we've been around for 70 years last year was our 70th Anniversary um and 7even years we opened up an office in Pittsburgh other than that we've been in Lancaster before that um we're a firm of 85 um so like to say with 85 people we have some Specialists that help us dig into the details to give us a more holistic view of your building and not just the bricks and sticks uh on top of that we're working with 16 school districts in Pennsylvania right now could be anywhere from a window replacement to a high school renovation and addition but moving on to your study um agenda for tonight um we want to

065outline the goals of the study what are we trying to solve and then we want to get into um the evaluation of your buildings and understanding your program and the development of the program that's kind of our homework and then we get in the options that's where we start to suggest ways to solve your issues and then cost that are kind of come along with it and then we'll talk in about an evaluation Matrix that starts helping you evaluate which of the options is best for you and then we'll leave you with next steps there's always always more to do so the next steps after that so tonight study uh the goals of this study is where are you going to put that singular 7th to e8th Middle School um we're going to test it

066at cams North we're going to test it at cams South and then we're going to have a high level high level discussion about a new Middle School that could house that we're looking to 14 to 1700 students in this solution and with that we want to have a reust educational program of not just how you teach now how you want to teach into the forceable future flexibility that goes along with it and as always meet the schal education requirements that are constantly changing and a space challenge for all of us um in the end we want to find out of all those places that we tested what's the most costeffective solution for you and what is right for you on top of that we understand we're doing a study within a larger master plan that

067you're doing is there anything in those options that will help you solve any of your other problems along the way so we just don't want to be focused on what we're doing we also want to reach out and see if there's anything else that it can help as we get through the process excellent so thank you Chris the uh the first start of that whole process is getting to know you and getting to know your buildings cams North in cam South uh and evaluating those existing facilities so learning how you educate within them in them not just how you maintain them uh but holistically again looking uh first at the General Building D data and overall condition that kind of goes without saying right we our team our Engineers that were along with us part

068in engineering uh walked through your buildings and evaluated those uh but as we are walking through the buildings and looking at the facility conditions the systems conditions we are also looking at the uh existing space use as well as your Academic Program how you use your spaces now where your pinch points are uh and moving forward from that and so the initial couple slides here are just some that data that we collected sharing it back to you some of most of this probably is not new to you but just to to share again so looking at cams North first then we'll look at South and that's how we'll flip back and forth uh throughout the presentation you 1952 building that has seen additions over time mostly though for the most part those additions didn't include

069holistic Renovations projects of that existing North building and so you do have areas that are of that 1952 vintage uh some spaces are kind of cool you know some PES are quite dated right uh and don't necessarily react or or facilitate education how you educate today um looking at some metrics we like to look at metrics to not only understand how your existing buildings work but then to test the schemes for the new Concepts we share with you this evening and moving forward uh and so at cams North you're running around 165 Square fet per student from a total building area and you can see some of the other metrics there program mer per student as well as grossing Factor we like to look at the grossing Factor it kind of tells us how efficient

070your building is or how inefficient it is both cams north and south are good solid efficient designed buildings and that's uh kind of the framework we're working in with the new Concepts as well at North you have a number of challenges and existing conditions just to highlight some of those we already talked about the the history of additions without comprehensive Renovations your existing gym and Auditorium they're great size bases as we look forward to a seventh and eighth grade facility but they need renovated and updated the the gym gym looks beautiful but that floor has seen its last sanding and really is in the state where it needs to be replaced the auditorium is a great size space with a great stage support facilities behind it but that needs updating as well uh things like

071the bathrooms if we look into the building program capacity beyond the um the building condition your current SC science labs are a little bit undersized from what we would plan today in a new facility and your locker rooms at uh North and South as well but at North there's a there's a one locker room that's in a a lower level than the other not accessible and those locker rooms really could stand to be renovated uh you know as well so as we go through the building we talk about these things and we we understand how your educators are using them and how your facilities department is is taking care of them we we grade the different aspects that we we look at and and so we'd like to use a fourpoint rating scale um uh

072number four would be a brand new building just finished yesterday and and and ready to educate your students if if something was at a uh at a zero level a red level there you would consider disuse and demolition of that particular space so it's a four-point scale um and all the different aspects of your building intangibles as well as tangibles as building condition are evaluated graded and those graded grades are then averaged into categories those are the categories you see in this chart and so the resulting score of the building gives you a snapshot of the building and how it may compare North for instance to South so North has a a rating of a 2.64 which is appropriate for its Age and what we saw uh as far as the condition and how you're

073using it today moving on to South uh the the the uh the Starship here or there's a lot of different you know associations you could have with this unique plan from the 70s that was part of 7s academic design what's latest and greatest and what what's what's better than the other neighboring School District right and so this may be where this one came from so 1972 what sets South apart from North other than its shape is that while North has seing a number of additions and improvements over its time other than a few limited capital projects South really has not seen Renovations I know you know that but just to really to say it to the the group here and into the records so um you know 154 squ fet per student still very similar

074and 150 1.52 grossing factor it's really in on par with how North is designed and operates which is interesting uh but highlighting that lack of uh you know improvement over time or additions it's a challenging building to put an addition on um when it comes to South you have had some capital projects over the years but really all mechanical electrical and plumbing systems bu in large are at or near the end of their operational life so that's I know it's a concern for you as a district um and also something to look at as we move forward with this assessment that that really that's that's a building that needs to that could stand to have uh comprehensive Renovations when we look beyond the building uh infrastructure bricks and mortar and at the programming capacity you

075have an existing gym and Auditorium there in the building they're under siiz for what you have there as a uh as a CL as a student body today but also looking forward it's for a seventh and eighth grade middle school building so that's something the concept we'll share with you this evening will correct but the gym for instance doesn't have a competition uh size Court which is kind of a shame CU it's so close to where we're at here on the high school campus it really could be a supplemental space and so the concept will seek to uh to change that it has great ramps to the classroom Wings within the building but they're but they're steeper great great might be a you know eye of Beholder uh but they're steeper than what's compliant from

076an accessibility standpoint you don't have elevators there so any comprehensive Renovations would need to correct that within the building and again the locker rooms and there's a lot of other things that we could talk about um but moving on with South then with taking the academic settings and the space use space is into account as well as the systems this this one comes in at at a slightly lower uh score at a 2.25 again just to kind of show the the uh the ratings of both buildings there on these the fourpoint scale and so that's great on building condition but it's not just we just uh not just talking about your building condition but also visioning what how you're going to educate moving on to the Future and so we worked with your administrative team

077with Mark and Matt and and and uh Mr beggar on developing a looking at your prog educational program understanding what you have now and verifying how you use your existing spaces we moved on from that to asking a lot of questions to develop what you need as a district you know asking questions of your admin administrators you know how would you like a 7th to eighth grade building to be organized in a new ideal building is that still a team structure would you consider organizing by academic departments as opposed to teams those are questions that we asked you know what do technology and steam space is required for Chambersburg Area School District you know moving on into the future we know what you have now and even down to the what is what is physical

078education look like in the future of a seventh and eighth grade building do you still need the locker rooms that you have now is is are a different approach in the design and those are all important questions because then that helps us to build that room list that we did build for first year ideal um brand new seventh and eighth grade middle school building but then we use that ideal new room list to validate and backfill the concepts for both North and for both South and checking against our metrics that we discussed so that we feel confident that the concepts the initial Concepts that we're sharing with you this evening meet your educational program program on are Equitable Apples to Apples comparisons clicker I'll give you the clicker okay um so into the exciting part

079now I get into uh some of the solutions that we came up with again we tested at cam North cam South and then there was just a hypothetical new middle school and if you would go with either one of these options what your final product won't look like what we're showing you today this is just our first test at that there's a lot more interaction that would go along to get to that but looking at the existing cam north south uh North site um gray box in the middle is the existing School the track is to plan North your bus drop off is on the right hand side and your car drop off is on plan South so that's your existing what we are suggesting for the solution for cam North is it's multifold first

080of all we're putting a large two-story addition in front of the building and that that addresses uh like five issues one it it fits on the site there it works well with the plan it's economical with the construction it works with the phasing and it puts a new face onto your building all at one time um additionally with that um we are working on the site circulation we're keeping the bus circulation on the right hand side but we have moved the car circulation around to the the leftand side so there's more queuing getting cars off the street when they're here for pickup we're using an addition to the cafeteria as holding areas for students coming and going for that car pickup and then we still have the front of the building that would be your

081main entrance visitor and parking in general the other part looking at the site um our goal is we started developing um our list of goals for this and the size and number of students in here is to get at least three play fields at each of the sites so what we did to achieve that is you have the field inside the track that we are suggesting be a Turf track at the upper right hand corner of the slide you have the existing 45° field and on the right hand side we took that large parking lot away and put another field in that location but then we evenly distributed parking around the building for better access and parking for teachers and access in and out of the building as we go from that site plan and

082look into the building inside the building uh we have a just a diagram here to share the uh the overall layout of the building uh kind of one of the the big organizing features of that of course is that front bar we're down on the uh the new edition the two-story Edition out front um that's where your visitor entrance and your central Administration uh counseling and nurse office may be located uh to the left of that we're wrapping that addition around your existing technical education uh Labs uh with your new with your new technology and steam spaces everything from business classrooms to computer labs to other like Robotics and TV studio type spaces um that rounds out that leth hand side of that addition you can see on the right hand side of the Edition

083there's two team areas for eighth grade you'll see that eighth grade Finds Its home in the new construction on the first and second floor and seventh grade will find its home in the in a renovated existing uh classroom wings uh of the existing building as we go from that Tech and steam area we we paired that we had the there was an opportunity within your existing floor plan to provide your art classrooms there in front of the cafeteria we can see the cafeteria to plan North and as you go down through your existing main classroom Wing where your current administrative offices are now in some classrooms across the quarter from that that's envisioned as a new learning Commons being the library the heart of the building that your students have Equitable access to and again

084up that the the 1990s I believe uh classroom Edition up the north side of the plan there that's where the two uh seventh grade teams uh find home there's a there's a lot two of the two of the six seventh grade teams find their home there's a lot of the existing spaces that are utilized within the footprint within the existing building um but there are some spaces that are envisioned to be reconfigured you can see all the the walls and the names and spaces that's just us backchecking things of course on the right hand side we have the gymnasium museum with some reimagine locker room areas as well as the Performing Arts area taking your former art classrooms and making them the music classrooms and expanding that band room to the size that would be

085needed for a seventh and eighth grade uh Middle School band program moving upstairs then again out front we have four more teams so we have six teams per grade when it comes to eighth and seventh and eighth grade with the eighth graders out front there in the new addition and the seventh graders uh filling out the renovated and altered areas of your existing class classroom Wings the blue spaces that you see throughout the the the plan are special education classrooms the room list that we work together with your Administration to develop um adds to what you have currently at your middle school and really gives you the full uh compliment that that you feel you need as a district to educate your students and so last but not least this is just a simple massing

086of what that addition could look like everybody I think I like to see what things look like in three dimensions and this gives you an idea of what that form could start to take with the parkings out front along Scot uh Scotland Avenue and that new addition with that new entrance coming in the midpoint of that addition and of course you see your existing uh building uh back behind really the only portion of the existing building that's not maintained with this first concept for North would be that Library learning Commons that you currently have out front that would be raised to make room for that new addition so that's the initial concept for north of course Concepts all have cost as associated with them and this is our initial uh take at a conceptual cost

087estiment for uh the the cams Middle School North editions for seventh and eth grade you can see the uh we like to use a low and a high range to provide a range of probable cost and so that first line there is that estimated construction cost the bricks and mortar if you will of the building uh at 63.5 to 71.3 million that does include a design contingency um we are including some uh typical inflationary uh you know multipliers in there for that construction cost you can see that in the mid R midline there in the $5 million range and then finally estimated soft costs for a project of this size we typically see those Allin soft costs including all fees or contingencies uh owner uh fixtures and equipment allowances that you may have falling between

08816 and 18% and that's what those uh the 10.9 to 13.9 million line item there uh accounts for and so at the bottom of the the the uh yeah cost estimate here the total all in uh estimated cant cost is is shown uh 79.6 to 91 uh million dollars as it stands now and that reflects the concept that you just saw it's always good to take a look back then at that initial concept and see you know what the benefits or what some of the challenges may be with that you certainly at North have some benefits with your recent uh investments in infrastructure the roof recoding and the exterior facade um and the investment in the cafeteria one of the things that excites our engineering Partners on this project is that the pipe tunnels you

089have at North may make it uh you know uh simpler to uh expand new infrastructure into the building as we keep the existing infrastructure online um and as far as building new square footage and big spaces that right siiz Auditorium and gym is definitely a benefit for this building some of the challenges it's around a 25 Acre Site if we were assisting you with searching for a new site for this building for a brand new building using the old uh a pte metric of 35 acres plus 1 acre per 100 students we'd arrive at somewhere around looking for a site around 49 you know plus or minus Acres so this site is a little small but our goal with this concept was to maximize and make best use of the land that you do have

090here um and it is a little bit further from the high school 3.5 miles you have to compare that when South is just right down the street moving on to South then this is the existing site plan for South that I know that you're aware of with i81 to the the right there and uh staer Avenue to the left um we have the existing entry and bus and car drop off and circulation on the site and this is what a concept for this building could look like again in addition we're proposing out front what's interesting about this site with the existing building being set so far back from your site circulation right now it gives us the opportunity to put a new addition in front of that and really maintain a lot of that existing

091site infrastructure uh so you can see a similar entry point for the front similar Bus drop off in the back uh similar points there it's not as cleancut a plan as a concept as North we'll readily admit that or you know discuss that but we look at the different fields it still kind of looks like a spaceship just saying just a little bit and so as Chris said with the three the three fields we have you have your two existing grass fields there supplemented by a brand new artificial turf field and cost assessment for both these does include that new Turf as well as lighting for that turf field those are certain things certainly things that could be paired or or you know switched around but just to let you know that is included and

092contemplated with these Concepts and so that's where the new addition uh would be if we zoom in then to that floor plan there's a lot going on but basically with this concept we're still keeping that Central core that pizza wedge shape in the middle of the plan being those cord shared areas of the building um what's interesting is that your existing classroom wing on the left uh can handle three of those eighth grade teams on the first floor and three of the eighth grade teams on the second floor on the right that classroom Wing can handle two seventh grade teams on either floor and so out front with the administration on the right hand side that addition in front of the eighth grade we're leveraging that space there for your Tech and steam areas your

093your um business classrooms and your technical education Labs you'll see that there is no purple for those technical education Labs back in the rear um upper right hand corner of the plan because we're this concept contemplates grabbing those existing labs for new locker rooms bringing those lower level locker rooms up and locating them adjacent to the gym and um the other athletic areas of the building but also locating those Locker team rooms where they could become supplemental areas for the the playfields outside as well a little bit more expense to that that would that involves raising floors in the teched area you currently walk down about five steps six steps down to the lower level the gymnasium also incurs some additional expense when we bring locker rooms out from the lower level of the building

094uh we are able to expand that gymnasium plan North so you have a full-size competition gymnasium but your cost estimate reflects that it's a little bit more expensive to reconfigure that existing space the cafeteria is one thing in this plan it's set up well it's the right size the ideal size for uh the seventh and eighth grade building uh that you're contemplating as a district and so that's shown in the same location moving upstairs then we already talked about the left-and wing is for the eighth grade teams the rightand wing the seventh grade team it's also important to note if you're familiar with this building on the second floor there's some Atrium spaces that look down to the existing libraries uh those Atrium spaces are contemplated in this concept to be infilled to provide some

095of that additional classroom special education and program spaces that you desire that's one of the challenges is building not only on the lower level but also Within These existing classroom Wings they're dense Wings which means that you do have internalized classrooms now and the concept depicts internalized classrooms without views outside in in the concept as well so um one of those things to just acknowledge as we move uh through the plans this is how this building could look again just a rough massing uh Double Wing it's it's a it's a double Wing it's a a line a linebacker doing a toe touch is what I like to say but it's it's a feasible addition to the building you know looking at testing the existing building how much can you keep a good portion of about

09680% of that building Remains the front Administration areas get demolished for that new addition similar to North uh South has a cost assessment here as well and you'll see for those reasons that we just discussed that the cost assessment does uh ride a little bit higher than North that's also attributed that we are demolishing as I just said uh the administration the front of exist the existing south building and so there's a larger new addition uh for this concept which is attributed to some of that cost it just breaks this cost assessment breaks down the same as the other one total project cost at the end 87 million up to almost 99 million for this option and like Andy said there's more challenges at this building that causing that cost estimate to go up compared

097to cam North exact exactly and we can go through the whole thing but we already discussed a few of these uh Salient points so the the last piece we had was to um hypothetically what would a new Middle School 78 Middle School look like cost on either the cam South site or uh the Green Village site um so we worked up numbers we don't have layouts for that right now working on a different spaceship for that but when we get to that point but um the the number we have are based on the square footage that we know and when we looked at both sites we really said whether it's on cam South you're going to have additional numbers for demolition or if it's on the Green Village site you're going to have additional site

098Improvement cost so we are saying that this number could go for back and forth either for cam South or for the Green Village sites so this is 111 million up to 127 million for a brand new building poting there and there's certainly some some benefits and challenges which which with each of th these uh sites and with the new uh building you know the new building certainly minimizes operational impacts to your existing Middle School sites uh especially if it's built on a new site and allows you to provide that ideal plan those ideal spaces but that comes with the cost and there's some challenges depending on which site you were to go on with the potential for pen. hop work and those sorts of things traffic impact studies um which you're all familiar with so

099we use this chart at the end just to give you some reference between the different options we looked at so we have the addition at cam North cam south or a new building to the right so the first three categories are just metrics on the building 4 through 11 are highlevel evaluation pieces that we thought were applied to this building and and the layouts that we've had discussed so the symbols are up there obviously plus is great minus is not so good and zero is somewhere in between the two um so it's not a surprise that a new building would solve most of the issues except when it gets to the budget that's going to be the most expensive one so if that budget is high enough and it cancels out it cancels itself out

100because of the budget going back and looking at North and South and then you can see through just through the the graphics that North is solving probably about twice as many issues as South is at a cheaper price so at a quick evaluation Matrix that we're using we are saying that it looks like North would be the way to go we know there's intangibles having the 78 closer to the high school but that that's your evaluation that you have to Maul through um there is another metric out there that pde has saying if your additions or Renovations is around 80% the cost of a new building or more you should probably go with a new building um cam South is a little bit blow at 20% cam North is much lower than that 20% metric

101I know exciting stuff I know we're talking a lot our next steps um we You' be excited do you hear any comments that you have so we can respond we know that this is multi-level engagement and you may have questions tonight or you may have questions a week from now so we will get you responses back to any of your feedback we will F tune schemes and cost estimates on information that we've here and that we continue to work with with the administration and we will work with the administration to develop a recommendation for you as that is your typical process um apart from that we will continue with our Athletics and operation studies that are going on separate from this Middle School study and the very last piece of information we had it was

102just a high level timeline if we got started when could we get into construction let's say you approved the project in April we got started in May or June we think of of 25 we would bid this probably in the fall early fall of 2026 with construction starting uh late winter or spring of of 2027 so again a lot of information I understand so if you have any questions questions questions you're never quiet you're never quiet I have I have one and uh might be more for Mr Varner um over at South three years ago or so we were looking at some work in the cafeteria thought it had the price tag of around $4 million drains underground plumbing has that been put into this equation in the South I think that's we tapped the

103breaks on that project yeah absolutely um you know what you're used to at Chambersburg uh is in in a renovation is maybe a um not an extensive renovation um maybe I hate to say the word lipstick on a pig but you know that's how we've um handled things somewhat in the past I will say at both of these cams North and cams South Concepts that you're seeing tonight um this would be essentially uh a new school um you know uh exterior you know would remain um potential cladding or something over it but I mean this is a gut level renovation um that you know certainly provides um new up-to-date spaces so I think something that um we're not necessarily used to seeing but the space is okay my question was about three and a half

104years ago there was a presentation of putting lipstick in the cafeteria for about $4 million yeah I don't think that was accurate uh we had talked about doing some work in the shop area with um dust collection and HVAC uh that project was put on hold we have we had identifi issues in the kitchen uh and we had spoke about a fire alarm um none of which um have ever been completed um but yes to answer your question all of that would be included in any type of renovation here that's one of the benefits uh with North you've had some recent investment in that kitchen and Food Service facilities and so there's uh allowances allotted to South to would to bring that concept up to that same level is there any difference in the educational

105process that would be going on during construction one plan versus the other in other words is it easier to continue to educate students in the existing structure in one plan compared to the other plan um our approach was similar in both that we're putting large addition on the front of the building to try to minimize that but I would say it would be easier at North there's more um there's more demolition going on at North in the pizza wedge as he said South yeah in South um in South um to get that up to speed so North would be easier for that and you have a few more site access points there too to Route traffic and sort of those sorts of things that get encumbered with a construction project at North is the the

106ramps is that the the the it it South is that kind of the the uh weightier hoist the ramps the undersiz auditorium that we have to redo the structure to get that big enough the undersiz gymnasium we have to redo the structure to get that big enough that whole cross quor and how that interacts with those other spaces that we're putting around it it gets to be tight complicated areas absolutely other question North was actually built with the intent of being that grade level Building compared to South so I think that it it's a much easier fit I will say that and and then the cost estimate proves it out there's actually more sitework going on at North and at South in our plan with the moving of the fields in the parking lot but

107the north concept is still many millions less than the th project I can see all the the advantages to North that you pointed out there um the hard cell is in some ways and and and envisioning how this would all fall into place is that uh South is so close to the high school which means that you know if you have new fields and and and you have that building there high schoolers can walk over and back and forth and I think the general public will say you know why are we why are we going clear on the other side of town because now we've got to bust those kids over there all three miles yeah I know I know but I'm just do you know how it is you know how it is they

108want those kids to be able to walk from the high school over to for their practices and have the multiple Fields but in the end you have to go with what it looks like financially and you have to you know look at all those factors that you're pointing out there so in in many ways some people would say well why did they go that direction over this direction and that's why we have that Matrix so that's exactly right for the Matrix six months one month one year five years something we ask that question so you have that I also like how you put the parking uh but I was wondering about the traffic pattern you're going through another Street to get those cars out how does that affect that road I guess you've looked into

109all that there likely would be some additional study if design were to move forward at North uh for that uh we discussed that you know anecdotally and and one of the things we may it may actually be a benefit there where everything comes out on Scotland Avenue right now kind of decentralizing that and pushing the parent drop off further from the Bus drop off might in some ways especially at departure time uh kind of alleviate some of your traffic flow challenges that you have now it might be more traffic going up there but not backing up onto that road because we gave it a a longer road to back up on to yeah I do drop off and pick up every now and then oh excellent excellent I I I I get the feel of

110what this track looks like sure and that's always a big portion of any design process is is discussing and and doing your best to get that circulation right absolutely uh total price difference I mean this is we're working with estimates and ranges but 78 million yeah is the price yeah difference um I'm curious to know was there any consideration giving to you have the new proposal but what if you went a step further with the South demo what if you demoed a little bit more of it so I don't know how how much of that you can do before your number just gets is is there is there an in between South and new where that you you address some of the I mean you're addressing a lot of concerns right but what have you

111said can we address additional concerns as well like what I don't I don't know I don't know where that no longer makes sense from a financial stand Ben's question is the building at Grand View at the same location of where South is what does that do to the number right the building that would be a new building that you would have built at Grand View if you put that new building on the south property so yeah well that's one of the new options but I guess what I'm saying is like what's your favorite part of South and can you Salvage that or if is there an in between those two options or not really we we had contemplated you know and sketched around with just getting rid of that entire Pizza wedge in the middle

112right those common spaces really are the challenges with or one of the major challenges with South there's other ones um and so it's it's it is kind of that uh Valu judgment call to make because because the moment you start demolishing more and more of the building then you're building more uh new square footage and that of course cost more than than even an extensive renovation of existing square footage so um the classroom Wings have great size classrooms there's also a an inherent negative there with those wings where they have those internal classrooms if you were able to look past that and there are ways to look past that right you can bring in some skylights you can you know punch openings bring some natural light into the core of the building um so those

113classroom Wings certainly would facilitate you know carry on into a new design but it becomes that how close the 80% rule that Chris had discussed earlier or at least the the rule of thumb metric that you can use you start getting so close and maybe even push past that 80% where it's maybe just be better to start over at that building but it's something to look at spend that much and then you still have the big box of the classroom wins internalized yeah and not get there am I correct that you would still be using the athletic fields at South even if you were not utilizing the building good point yeah I would assume so and I think that's going to be a continuation of our a Athletics and operation study right that option y

114if and so a small portion of South could become a build yes yes exactly yeah that's that's 40 acres of land yeah consolidation of the support services may end up being it south and the use of fields might end up being the location and then you get your right you get everything you're looking for right other than a cheaper cheaper pelvic I think if you remember I said the hardest cell will be for the communities to get over the idea that South is not fixable you know and it still is that's the hardest thing to get over but every turn every I don't know Matt if you want to jump in on that facilities yeah just going back to South you know I we're we're so focused on the cost and the location which are

115extremely important in in all of this um but one of the things that I look at is just the overall floor plan and is the building going to be functional you know functionable and usable for for education and I look at that floor plan and you know I credit these guys for even being able to design something like that but you know to me um that floor plan is a mess um you know Andy says uh it looks like a linebacker doing toe touches I say it looks like a sumo wrestler doing a belly flop um but but regardless um kind of the same end result and so I just think about that I will say that they tested it with our classroom designs and our programs and it will fit in that footprint but

116I question um does it work well and you know looking at that footprint I I just don't know that it works well um whereas you can Envision those programs in cams North and you can um understand the flow of traffic along with foot traffic in the building and how the programming is set up I just think that um cams north kind of all those boxes um you know Chris kind of hit on the next part of our study oh and and jumping back um you know we talked about natural light we have these classrooms in in cams north um that don't have existing light that are in the interior of the building um looking at that design from cams North even with that addition we're able to open up um you know outside lighting into

117all the classrooms I don't know if you noticed between the new addition and the existing building they have those areas designated there for Outdoor Classroom space um and other um outdoor uh spaces that would be um greatly beneficial to our educational programming so um those are some things that I just wanted to highlight and think about I've had the opportunity to work with these guys for the last couple weeks and really um discuss this at large um but one of the initial thoughts that we've already discussed for centralizing operations and um transportation and things for our district is perhaps that cam South um and doing um some maybe uh locker rooms up there with existing turf fields um so you know again we've already started to kind of work on to the next phase and

118I think that that property up there is extremely valuable to us yeah absolutely okay thank you gentlemen thank you thank you apprciate have a good evening I I do want to end um if you notice the difference between the two presentations this one's moving along a little faster per our request to get a decision made so we can get going um I I don't want to pressure you too much but our goal would be at the April meeting at the ladies to come back with the recommendation um for North right now I mean there's no evidence to support anything else that we would get going on that so I just want to tell you our what our recommendation pretty much is and it's been tested multiple times is where we would be in April and

119so if you have major concerns or worries or questions you feel free to continue to send them my way um we'll get clarity and answers to [Applause] those okay consent agenda topics Chris and your team any items you want to uh expand upon 505 for me go ahead anybody else before we go through it anybody else want to point out Kurt or Mark I think Mark's walking out with them remember we're not voting on anything no no just just going to let you okay let you present anything you want and then we'll open it up to questions from any board members on the other items so when when I first arrived in Chambersburg at the first public forum before great configurations was a thing um just to engage with the public I did bring up

120a calendar and relooking at our calendar I mean the state of Pennsylvania has changed the law requiring used to require hours and days to fulfill your educational requirements in the state of Pennsylvania they've eliminated the day requirement and only went to hours and we knew that was coming we had about a year and a half lead time and they finally finalized it so we've been studying I've been studying the calendars across the United States for quite some time professionally and then we started studying it internally so uh but you can see for 2526 it is a traditional calendar for next year um any calendars that we do bring forward um that may be different we'll have a little more time to study and review them uh we are planning on bringing some type of different

121calendar hopefully uh to the table um here in the spring summer at the latest um we are working with our associations that we do have to work with because many of the calendar items are tied to work agreements and so I can't get into great detail about the work agreements but I just wanted to let you know we are studying the calendar and I think Mr Norcross said last time the short version of it is in increasing the school day and reducing some days um so that's the short version we would increase the day by 30 minutes potentially 15 minutes on each side and reduce the number of days and then eliminate potentially some of uh all the early dismissal days uh and then organize the calendar for very much more predictable uh so that

122we don't make changes that's a big overview of what a change would look like so the worst case scenario I think we've noticed is six less days but 50 more hours of teaching and learning because when you increase the school day by a half hour it increases our hours so the hard part about a calendar change is just moving away from days to hours and when you really do study it uh we can do something um different but I just want to prep the the the public in the community that next year is traditional and so everybody can take a deep breath while we still work on what is possible for the future can you uh clarify for us and the public I I thought one of the proposals you brought to us was intriguing

123and I thought it was a positive step at this feels a bit halfhazard where all the breaks are and the the early dismissals and I really like that but you felt like there was a need for more time yes and so I I'm just curious to know uh was there consideration to moving that direction without full implementation like go with the schedule but not imp all the ideas that were connected to it yeah the the challenge is fortunate unfortunately depends on your view where you sit on this uh many of the items in the calendar are tied directly to the language in the contract and that is not usual typically there's a little more board authority over the calendar here I I can't make decisions without a change in the contract or anou so we

124need that time to figure that out what we're willing to change what we're willing to do um and I think that's the pause the second thing I'm very used to is putting out calendars two years in advance this is very late for anybody to put a calendar out for next year so we want to get in this twoyear cycle so the next cycles of calendars would come out two years in advance and then every year after that you do two years and two years and two years so I hope by providing a little more time um a lot more advanced notice people can learn to understand maybe the calendar change or changes we bring forward to me that is the big that is one that is probably the biggest part that you know public input

125especially into your students school calendar I think is very important before we make a decision uh in this boardroom or across the hallway in a closed door discussion um my only thought about this calendar and I've mentioned this in previous years the spring breaks are just so minimal um and I think it's a it's it's tough I think for students and teachers alike I mean in a year like this where all those days are gone and now we're going weeks and weeks and weeks without a single day off and I you know my my own take on that is take one of those days after Thanksgiving and shift it to the spring but I think that there are reasons we can't do that yet either correct you are you are absolutely correct but it just

126yeah in a year like this where you go multiple months without a single day off I think it's difficult for I don't know that we're getting educational benefit to Just Right slog in away so yeah my I agree that my struggle with the calendar is is certainly real and it's definitely due for a review yeah and that's what we're working through the process thank you that was it for uh information any other questions on 505 okay board members you have questions comments any discussions you want to have tonight for 5.01 through [Applause] 5.11 okay if not all those 11 items will'll go forward next meeting on the consent [Applause] agenda uh section six I 6.01 take from the table curriculum map for Honor sociology uh this was a discussion we had uh I guess at

127our voting meeting last meeting uh we put it on a table so before we get too far we need a motion and a second no we don't we're not voting tonight okay not that's right I'm getting ahead of myself we're not voting tonight thank you Mrs stalford um well then how do we well we're just going to we're just going to provide information it's information you you can talk about it but the action will be on the 25th but if it's on the table you have to take it off the table only if you're going to vote vote on it yeah go ahead you can explain a little bit normally this wouldn't be on a committee of the whole because we've changed the process but you don't need to take this off the table tonight

128to discuss 6.02 um six I'm sorry sorry I'm I'm getting a little sleepy here we all are uh but you will need to take it off the table to vote on it at the regular meeting okay Mrs Harbaugh you had some I think would you like to go first maybe I certainly can thanks for putting me on the spot first of all I would like to thank the administration for providing me with the resources that I requested that I could look over um it gave me a lot of stuff to think about um how that was presented um I I can be honest in saying that I'm not sure where I'm coming down on it right now because I have a lot of questions of how it would look in the classroom and I don't

129know that I could have answers to that um just because there are a lot of sensitive uh topics and I am still personally uh full disclosure wrestling with the appropriateness of that in a 10th to 12th grade setting as opposed to at a Collegiate level um so that's where I'm at personally um as far as the book itself um I didn't find anything that was glaringly this or that or whatever that I had any opposition to um it's just the some of the topics and where they stand in the maturity level of those students um that will be listening to that and while I understand having discourse and things of that nature um where are they at and and that's just where I'm at so I I'll be honest I'm not quite sure where I'm

130going to be in 2 weeks but I am contemplating it and having that resource was definitely helpful for me uh to at least assuage any concerns I had with any type of you know um explicit nature of some of those sensitive topics if I can say it that way yeah I likewise had the book and reviewed it quite extensively um I I think that the book itself the culum map tied to the book is of some concern but I also recognize that it's going to happen at some point for these children young people um I I think the important thing is the opt out um step and the importance of clarity in that and not just a brush through um of that by parents um I'm I'm afraid any any textbook tied to this course

131would have just as many concerns as the concerns that I saw in this textbook um my great concern and I don't know if this is the appropriate time to ask for this or not but I would really like to have and and it may be something that needs to wait till after block scheduling starts next year but I think we really need to look at how many students are benefiting from the significant number of op options that there are for the upper end students um for instance I'm told and I don't know that this is factual but I'm told that many students take for instance the uh AP courses but don't take the test that goes along with them so they don't end up getting college credits for AP classes how many students are actually

132enrolled and what's the completion to the maximum of what they can get from taking these high level courses let me let me just jump in I think I think I think I think I understand that I think that's a good uh discussion and conversation the board probably should have and something I've mentioned before goes with minimum class sizes but and I would suggest to the board that we think about adding that maybe as a discussion item on a future cow meeting yeah that that's why I said I'm not sure that this is I think I think that would be the best way to do it so we don't uh muddy the waters with this with this specific U honors curriculum map but but I I I agree with you Mrs go I think I think

133that'd be a worthwhile discussion because I know we've had comments including my own about class sizes and and stuff so I'd love to have that discussion I just suggest to the board unless you just tell me you want to do it now that we maybe make that I don't think we can do it now I think it's information that has to be provided for us but how many honors classes are there how many AP classes are there how many students are there those are questions that I think we need to know before we continue to add more and more honors classes this is a new class am I correct yes so you know this is in addition to all that we already have for the honors AP IB level student so Mr bger I guess

134maybe let you and your team come up with a Y with a time that you feel once you have time to prepare the information and Mrs goggler and any other board member just provide maybe some questions offline here to this and then we'll put it on another one but can I just ask a quick question though do we have a soci sociology course that's not honors uh yes we have about 150 students taking the regular sociology course so this would uh this class came out of an agreement with rmu for kids to get an early jump in college because uh honors sociology would be the equivalent of a sociology course at college so they would have some of their gen Ed credits out of the way before they would uh go to college do they

135have I guess it's coming back to this how many do we have so in other words do we have another uh enough alternative courses that they can take I mean they can take so many yes this is an elective course we have enough that that they have a a selection because as I was looking through the you know uh the details on the uh mapping um I mean I'm all for critical thinking and I absolutely think that's you know absolutely important but there's some really heavy Topics in here and then you have to say to yourself should this be at the collegate level and and not at the high school level uh so I'm I'm like I'm I'm I'm struggling trying to figure out where I stand on it too plus I I haven't had

136a chance to look at the textbook now do they get college credits for an honors class I thought it was AP classes this one this one they would um if they would elect to uh pay rmu for the the college credits um the other the other piece is that we do have uh policy 105.2 part of the syllabus would be uh if parents uh would elect their child not to be part of you know a certain piece of the curriculum map um that they could opt out of that uh and be given an alternative assignment but we have that delineated in uh 105.2 yeah I think that's a great option you have for parents but I don't think that the kids they don't want to be singled out so a lot of times that doesn't

137get relayed to the parent but now is this for sophomores through seniors or is it just for juniors or seniors most of the students that would probably take this course would be Juniors or seniors would there be any freshmen or sophomores are they allowed to take it um with when coming in the Freshman Academy there's it's probably not going to be an option for them uh I guess there could be a sophomore or two that could but it it's primarily going to be for kids that are Juniors or seniors that have electives to take and have met their requirements pretty much for graduation so and another thing I think that would help in the decision is if we could see the syllabus for the regular sociology course that we're currently offering I didn't know how

138much difference there is is it online I at on the yeah they they have the curriculum app online me that it was on there I think I can can look it up and I think you had the the resource for that you looked at that book first is that correct yes I did look at that book first and there are yes and to that point the current Sociology class does not have the same topics as the honors class does not have all of the same topics there are some different I mean I don't wants I don't want to limit the kids that they don't have enough classes to take yeah there's not as much of the heavier Topics in the current Sociology class ised in my opinion I you can judge for yourself based what

139you see Crystal L put a nice weekly report in Friday I don't know if people had a really chance to read it I read it she did a really nice job of outlining difficult to Concepts and topics throughout the whole school district um and does the board understand where your Authority lies with decisions like this are you comfortable with what you can and can't do and what your role is everybody's good with that okay just wanted to make sure I think what's tricky is we're asking our high schoolers ready for college courses you know I mean that's that's part of the challenge um I'm curious to know that you said 150 ticking sociology if we had this course I'm assuming not all of the kids would take that course then right like you would have

140maybe 100 do the regular sociology and 50 do the honors or I mean I'm not asking for precise numbers that I'm going to hold you to I understand but um how would that typically play out when I SP SP to Crystal about that um we felt that the our social teacher would be able to teach both both the courses that we wouldn't need to hire anyone additional to to teach the courses so we would probably my guess would probably be maybe two sections uh maybe the first year one section I don't know we'd have to see what the course request um I will say a lot more a lot more of our students are trying to get an early jump on College um especially for a lot of our students that Haven traditionally been able

141to afford to earn some of those credits uh so that that's one of the opportunities that uh our high school administration along with Dr long have been working on uh with some of the colleges with rmu specifically I would I would Echo what uh Miss Harbaugh said and uh Miss goler just I'm concerned about some of the heaviness of the topics I do appreciate that that policy is there that the students or the parents can opt out is that shared like at the beginning of the class pretty much you know I I and I'm not saying that you know I'm just wondering how that's done right or you know with the elective how is it shared you know and again I agree with what Mrs Diller says some students I know it's puts them under

142pressure uh but you know so yeah we'd make that part of the syllabus yeah okay and and there there are some classes that uh um that take for example uh Elementary their their first Health talk you about uh sex they that we run a couple information nights for a parent to see what's going to be taught and look at the resources and parents can opt out we had the same thing when I was a middle school principal we had some parents that would opt out uh so I mean that that definitely could be part of that we can also look at the syllabus about having parents sign off on a syllabus for a class like this too okay thank you that would be a good that be good idea well and the one that you

143gave me it said on there I can't remember all of it because that was part of the book cuz I had H that to too and it says this class has you know below is the syllabus for this class there are some sensitive topics if you'd prefer please email me and we can work out on this I mean it's very clear and there's actually a clear syllabus there these are the topics that we're covering and then there's a place for the parent to sign saying that I'm okay with that you know so it's very well La out that a parent you you wouldn't you wouldn't think that you know you would get into a heavy topic and the parent would be shocked that they're having that heavy conversation so I don't have any concerns about

144that kind of stuff going on because it's very well laid out in that initial introductory letter 100% like it's a very well-written letter it's very self-explanatory in my opinion I I just want to say one thing that you proval is for the curriculum map it is not for the resource yet the resource would come after we would approve a curriculum map so the uh the item 6.02 is to prove the curriculum map that's been out there which I think you've all had the opportunity to see other board members thoughts comments questions for Mr Whitman or Mr B I have some I am um yeah from what I looked at here uh I'm I'm for I actually wouldn't mind it seeing just not just being an elective so to speak that you that you choose outside

145that and the reason why I say that is we're talking about sociology and I remember growing up I remember going from elementary school to Junior High I'm talking about sociology we had history then we had black history history was required black history was an elective and when I got older and I look back on that I'm thinking okay sociologically that was the right thing to do so to speak back then it wasn't all integrated and whatnot and I'm wondering what are we doing today fast forward to today what are we doing that we may be that we're going to look back on sociologically I was just I just watched um Ruby Bridges was on TV uh last week I think it was the week before last and I look at um what she went through

146if you guys aren't familiar with Ruby Bridges she was a the young black girl who uh integrated the school systems and uh and I see I look back on that and I see where people's stances were on that and I actually keep a couple of pictures in my phone because of the mindset of someone holding up a news to a little girl who's trying to go to school and get an education sociologically that's what happened in this country and I don't I personally don't want to shy away from any of the ugliness I want to I want the greatness to be shown and I want the ugliness to be shown too so we don't go back down those Pathways and so when we're talking about well it has to be well your parents have to

147sign you up for this I know my mom didn't sign me up for what I went through in in uh you know going from elementary to Junior High and so I just want to just make that plain that um just because everybody didn't necessarily go through that same thing doesn't mean that we have to either shy away from it or think that that's too heavy CU it wasn't obviously heavy enough for me to go through it or whatever some people may be going through right now um we mentioned uh not long ago about hiring teachers of color and um one of the things sociologically if you back the reason why you know I know we said we looked for teachers of color but sociologically whenever the desegregation came along we lost a lot of black

148teachers so there aren't a lot of black teachers in that space because of desegregation if you look up the history on that so soci you know sociology this is is vitally important and it's vitally important that we know exactly what went on sociologically so we don't either go down those Pathways again especially if it's negativity or we repeat the good that happens Mr H yeah turning on your mic I'm turning it on and I'm going to say something uh I was trying to wrap my head around an analogy or some sort of metaphor that I could like put my head in the same space as some people that are concerned about this course so I was wondering if there were going to be a nutrition course offered advanced placement and I was a vegan in

149other words I don't eat meat I don't eat fish chicken and I don't drink milk or eat cheese and a Dairy Farmer in Franklin County who doesn't understand plant-based nutrition who thinks it's something evil or something socialistic or whatever kind of words they want to put on top of it they simply don't understand and the value of it and I get that so should my child if they want to be a a nutritionist be now not allowed to study that part of Nutritional Health I think that there will be things in curriculums that some community members just don't understand there's a lot of things I don't don't understand but we need to try to understand instead of just shutting off and saying no so I'm open-minded and if it's a college course that person's getting

150ready to to move into college let them be educated to the college level we want our children to go to college to be ready to go to compete with their peers not be like in some Backwater County in Pennsylvania that just doesn't get it I I would just like to respectfully say that was a very reductive thing to say Mike to people that are questioning this I know you didn't mean it that way but you basically just insinuated that those of us who are struggling with this are in some way trying to um diminish the educational capacity here at Chambersburg and I don't think that's how you meant to say it but that's how it came across um I am genuinely trying to look at this from all angles because it would be very easy

151for me to take my personal beliefs and say absolutely not it's not happening and I think I have done a very good job of getting as much information as possible on a very subjective topic which is what sociology is because it can be presented in any which way you want and that's a little bit different than a science or a meteorology so just for me personally um I am not doing this to be combative I am not doing this because I think I know what's best for all the children in the district I am just genuinely trying to make what I believe is the best decision possible and I would just really caution people to not make reductive statements and generalizations when they're speaking about other people's intentions thank you and and I appreciate all

152the due deales you've done to get as much information as you can Stephanie but I guess my statement is basically meant to say if a parent is okay we I would hate to see this get to the level where we we need to know every word that a teacher is going to say in the classroom to deliver a particular content the teachers have broad discretion to teach and I'd like to give them that opportunity and I I really have a lot of confidence and faith in our teachers that they'll know the right thing to say at the time when they look at the the classroom and they see the students in front of them and the the body language I have faith in teachers they'll know what to say what to do I wonder just

153a thought I have here um obviously there's uh spirited discussion and thoughts and a lot of deliberation for individual board members to still have uh I am always a fan of options I say it in my workplace all the time I just love options so the analogy I'm going to use I'm going to use it in a Schoolboard sense I want to use tonight so when we looked at a building project right we get presented options right this building that building or you know building X Y or Z okay and I know this came up I believe two weeks ago that you know this this curriculum is you know given to us by rmu and you know we don't have a whole lot of flexibility with this curriculum and maybe the end goal here is

154to provide college credits to students so I guess my question is you know are there similar courses with from maybe a different University that accomplishes the same thing with maybe not as much uh concern amongst board members you know is it maybe maybe rmu is the only course only college that can offer this credit to uh you know college and high school or are there maybe two other universities who offer a similar course and then the board could select between X Y or Z I don't even know if that's possible I think that comes back to my question that was not a part of what we're supposed to be talking about right now um do we really have a well organized system of helping our students get these credits that are going to help them

155or is it a hodgepodge of rmu and Shippensburg and Wilson and um you know I I don't know the answer to my question or I wouldn't be asking it but I believe that we need to have a very clear pathway that a student has the opport opportunity at graduation to have X number of credits and students need to know how to get on that pathway when they're in ninth grade not whenever they're in 11th grade and oh well I could have done this and I actually heard this said by a student who graduated recently if I had known that I could have done X Y and Z I would have done it so this is part of the rationale that I have for asking in appropriately TimeWise but asking for more information as to what

156pathways are clearly defined and communicated to parents and students cuz you can't take back today it's gone and if your child is in 10th Grade you can't go back to 9th grade regardless of whether you should have made a different choice or not so my my question to the board would be and then it'll then may come back to Mr bigger and Mr Whitman but do we are we ready to move this forward to a vote in two meetings or Chris and Mr Woodman what's the timeline does it hurt if this stays on table or maybe the board maybe the desire of the board is to get it off the table and vote it up or down however that vote may be so I guess that's maybe the the debate right here what our next

157steps are are we ready are we ready to vote debate it at three straight meetings no I'm fine to vote yeah item item 10 item 10.01 we will have privilege of the floor and keep in mind we are not voting tonight so you know you'll actually get two opportunities to address the board before we vote that's good yeah I think just on a summary you guys do your due diligence you discuss items you're doing a great job of discussing difficult issues you know and so normal process is give it a thumbs up thumbs down there's always other options and opportunities so don't don't sweat over it too much honestly you know you have option of the optin and opt out you can do it specific to a subject you can do it for the whole

158course uh you have options as a board to say we don't want the course like these are all available to you and and don't feel as if it's not within your Authority you know we make recommendations we bring them to you and you know where the consensus of the board is where it is the hard part on these topics is to try to get out of it still whole as a group um and that's always the challenge um but again work yourself through it ask additional questions we provide information um to help you make your best decision for you um and as a board so at this point we would continue to have since it's on the table it would be on the agenda take off and then vote if you want to table it

159again or have more discussion that's an option you have at that time okay okay good discussion obviously I know I wrote it down here one of the board members made a comment some concern so there are some concerns here um lease item 6.03 lease agreement for K to8 Chromebooks Dr long this is a placeholder um Mrs wouth is sick today sure um so she has the lease and everything and she will post it um and give you all kinds of information when she gets back here from being sick okay is it worth putting in a Friday folder prior to the next we could do that yeah we will very good thank you uh hope Mrs wam feels better um policy and legislation um first two will be second readings any questions or discussions comments on

160any of those three items 8.01 to 8.03 okay uh much much anticipated 10.01 privilege of the floor uh as I just said a couple minutes ago uh the board isn't voting on anything tonight and and our right and our next meeting there will be a privilege of the floor prior to the votes being placed or taken uh so the public will have two opportunities to discuss this one topic that we just discussed or any other items that we may be voting on next week so with this uh Mrs PA panel panel you no no Mrs Mrs Julie Pala Ry Raleigh I'm sorry I missed the I missed the r on here okay good evening I'm really glad to be here y just tap on it and see if it's working on the top and hold

161it close there you go hi hello good evening um I'm Julie Raleigh I am the sociology professor at Wilson col College I've been teaching sociology at Wilson for 20 years I've been teaching sociology for almost 30 um with respect to whether or not some of your students are ready for a Sociology class or an honor Sociology class with this particular curriculum I've seen that map um I would have to say yes I've had several uh cashes students in my courses over the years as dual enrollment students and consistently in my almost 30 years of teaching sociology particularly introductory sociology students ask why they didn't learn this in high school so I think um your students are ready for it they're able to do it some of my best students since I've been at Wilson have

162been Cash's duel enrollment students um with respect to the curriculum I saw it and it basically is what an Introduction to Sociology textbook looks like has looked like for several decades with some changes so um I think this is pretty power for the course with respect to the subject matter that you're looking at in terms of you know the various sort of sections um of Sociology I think one of them is sort of you know it has to do with sociolog iCal history and methods and um I think what's Difficult about sociology and I think you just all demonstrated that is I think that um when I ask students first day of class how many of you have taken uh a psychology course in high school many of them raise their hands when I say

163how many of you have taken sociology very few do and I think that's because we're more comfortable with a uh psycholog iCal perspective because we live in a society that values the individual and so we like to study the individual and we like to study and get to know ourselves I would argue that sociology also provides us with an opportunity perhaps I think right I've been a sociologist for decades perhaps an even stronger opportunity for us to know ourselves and for students to know themselves and their place in the world by understanding the social forces and the social inst institutions that shape who they are and how they behave and so I think you would find that your students would do very well in a course like this I also think in terms of educational

164opportunities to earn college credit while I've had a lot of students who have been dual enrollment students I'm guessing that they've come from families that have the economic resources to pay for a college course if you can give them a college course that they wouldn't have to pay for that they could take as part of their High School uh curriculum then I think that would be very advantageous so I just want to say um yes sociology deals with um very challenging topics I guess I would have to agree with Mr than you Mrs is that my time yeah that wasn't that wasn't Dr Long cell phone right okay sorry okay sorry I guess I don't know the Protocol no I just I guess I just would really want to encourage you to enable your students

165to have this as a as a college credit opportunity thanks this is Jordan oh that's I'm going to pick it back off of what this nice lady just said I had a very intelligent son and he took a number of ab courses in high school and I don't think one was sociology but he did not take the test for AP courses okay because he got a full tuition scholarship to NJIT there's that okay I'd like you to move forward with this we have very bright students in this world I will email you some more perspective on this as a parent who had a very bright student who in third grade was tested for his IQ it was 140 we have those children and I'm passionate about this now it's up to the parent and it's

166up to the student and these are 11th and 12th graders and these are very mature students that are going to take this class okay they are and we need to Foster bright students not just middle of the road and I'm going to go back Mrs um goggler and relisten to what you said because you kind of maligned the the staff here tonight yes you did by implying that they don't know what they're doing now we already have the students and we already have the teacher it's not going to cost me anymore okay it isn't and you know I'm very good in math I want to see this I want you to think over this to the next meeting and I will go into email with you give you a little more background but this will

167help the student when they get to maybe Shippensburg or Wilson that they don't have to pay for this course I don't know what the I'm going to find out from this lady tonight what that college credit is if it's $2,000 a credit that's $6,000 that the student doesn't have to put out I want you to understand this now my son was in high school he graduated in 1996 The Outdoor Classroom I'm going to find out I'm going to get back to you because we were involved with one in New Jersey my husband and I with the Boy Scouts I'm going to reach out to that principal and I'm going to find out I thought that was a very good idea and I'd like you uh superintendent begger to think about giving the uh parents and

168teachers uh more money towards classroom supplies I'm thinking you probably I'm thinking you listen you let this on one topic you wanted to talk one you need to be better Jud your time excuse me that's very rude there's another gentleman who signed up that's all right please that's okay thank you um I went I went to a a different School District growing up uh much smaller one and I didn't have the opportunities that are being discussed tonight um advanced placement courses and the like and um I I think it's great that the students have them and I think personally that the more opportunities they can have the better um I went to college and I went to college with a bunch of kids that went um it was a Missouri school they um a lot

169of the kids were from Kansas City St Louis big high schools lots of opportunities um and uh their experience in college was very different than mine um because of that and so I think it's great to have a daughter that's just getting into the she's in kindergarten she's just getting into it I think it's great that she's in a place that is going to have these opportunities so I'm excited for that and I would encourage just broadly to take the opportunities to provide these courses to our students um specific to this one um I I would agree with those that have spoken that I I feel that the kids that would be taking this class are ready um they are already living their lives discussing these hard topics with their friends um sociology like high

170school is just an experience of learning how to be around your peers being ready to go being kicked out of the nest they need to know how to have these conversations on hard topics so I think it's great that they that we would have that opportunity to for them to discuss the things that they're experiencing in their lives um their friends are experiencing um and to just have an opportunity to to discuss that in a formal environment with the support of a teacher um I think it's a wonderful opportunity so I'm in support of it and thank you for your time thank you thank you any other members of the audience who didn't sign up like to make um a week or so ago I had the opportunity to attend the uh ribbon cutting of

171the new office opened over there I'd like to thank all the people Administration everybody else who was involved in making that happen I was very impressed with that very pleased with what I saw there I got a chance to talk to the young lady from Maryland who's been doing a program for a couple years I think it's going to be tremendously helpful in our district for all the different groups whatever the nationalities or whatever we say coming in to have that opportunity with the help from that staff that's going to be running that operation and um that's what I one thing I would just really like to say I was very impressed with that so thank everybody involved if you can do that I really appreciate that and I guess the other thing I'd like

172to say is that when we sign up for stuff on there if we hear stuff during a meeting and we come up with like Ed said two different different topics and only talked about one to do your timing a little better I feel that's a bit inappropriate because what you let me come up here and talk yet Valerie got to talk and she wrote down two things but you thought she talked too long on one versus the other and I think that's not appropriate to do that she did go over a little but other people go over too so thank you thank you yes ma'am I um I debated if I was going to share this but I feel it's important um I um yeah I'm not good when I don't have words in front

173of me so I'm going off the off of what's in my head and there's a lot in my head right now but um I suppose uh yeah my parents were always very involved in my education and often um opted out of things that they didn't feel was appropriate for me and um that included Halloween celebrations in elementary school and you know the like um when my son entered kindergarten and I started thinking through the school safety um that's a that's a big concern frankly for for every school um and and um emergency situations and I reached out to um staff at my son's Elementary School saying I really hope there's an opt out for the potentially traumatic uh experience of being a kindergartener and learning how to run away from an active shooter and a

174wise teacher said to me I think it's a huge disservice to your son to opt out of this and I took it to heart and I'm glad she said that to me thank okay item 11.01 just informational item that's out there for distri summ and uh last but not least prior to adjournment uh item 12 uh any new business uh topics um the board like to discuss maybe a future discussion discuss a future discussion once it's discussed and discussed and discussed again then we'll vote and vote and vote uh the board will uh return to executive session to uh continue on some Personnel matter that or maybe but