McGuffey School Board Meeting June 2, 2026

001I don't feel the need to use a gavvel, but we're here for our it's our monthly budget committee um that we are also using as our board budget works workshop work session. Um and so we can begin with um the agenda items here. Um, I don't know if Mrs. Hoverart if you wanted to go over what you wanted to go over first. Sure. And then I was going to ask that our budget committee members speak first before anybody else um has anything to say. >> Okay. All right. So, on the agenda that you have in your folder, we're going to start with cafeteria equipment. Now, our cafeteria purchases do not come out of our general fund. So, this is not something that you typically really know about or have to approve, but I wanted this

002group to know that when you heard the auditor speak and said that there was some funds sitting in our cafeteria account that have been there since like 2021, the state requires us to spend down money if we have more than three months worth of expenses sitting as cash reserves in our cafeteria account. So that's, you know, good thing because we do need some new cafeteria equipment. It's not going to impact our general budget at all because this is a prop proprietary fund that is separate from our general budget. Um, but we are going to be purchasing a double convection oven for Claysville and a conveyor belt dishwasher for Claysville and I think one for the high school. Mr. McKe is getting competitive bids right now. So, we we have the approval from the state because

003they were requiring us to spend the money down. Um, so once we have it, I'll I will keep you posted on that. The second thing real quickly that I wanted to talk about was just the projects for the bond. I again just provided you the list that Mr. McKe created back in January. Um, again, this is an we're negotiating any of and all of these projects. We definitely need to have that HVAC work done in the asphalt, fire alarms, and camera systems. But other than that, um, those are all things we could do or we could hold off doing and see where we end with the actual dollar amount after they take their fees out. Yeah. He is also starting to talk to get proposals for some of this work. Um I have a bond

004meeting on June 8th and today I got an email from them requesting just monthly accounts of our state subsidies. So I'll provide that to them tomorrow. Just a quick update. The next thing that I wanted to just talk about was our financial forecast. In your packet, I provided a forecast summary. One says balance budget one and one says board balance budget 2. This is a product of the new software that we're using that I'm using for forecasting um expenses and revenue. So the first one in that scenario I have left the tax rate 0% increases and you can see if we leave our tax rate at no increases going to 2031 the revenues in blue the expenses are in green and our expenses are going to continue to increase based on you know just looking

005at the historical data and how how much it's increased percentage-wise over the last couple of years, we're going to have a negative fund balance of 20ome million dollars by 2031. And then in scenario two, this one I put in a 4% increase in taxes up until the 2031 school year. And still with the rate of inflation, and this is kind of keeping our property values at 950 million, we're still looking at $17 million negative reserve fund. So forecast is not great. So that's where I want to talk about the balance budget and the balance budget comments that were made. As we know, balance budget means your revenues equals your expenditures. And this is where you can go to your slides. And just to give an example for the 2627 year, if we would have done

006no tax increase whatsoever, our expenses were at 37.7 million. Our revenue would have been at 36 million. So that means we would have had to reduce our expenses by 1.6 million to have an actual balanced budget without having to take out of our reserves obviously. So on the next slide, we need to start having these conversations on ways that we can reduce expenses because we are not going to balance a budget on revenues. Our state is not increasing our allocations or our subsidies and even if we continue to raise taxes, it's still not keeping up with the inflation and salary and benefits costs from year to year. So we need to start looking at staff reductions. We need to start reviewing our programs to see are they absolutely necessary and needed and we need to

007again start conversations on the consolidation. I wanted to give you this is just a quick sample staff reduction spreadsheet that I created and these are the 26 27 salaries for these positions. Now as you know contractually if we do furlow we furlow the last ones hired right so those ones are typically the ones with your lowest salary rates I went one pair educator basically per building so furlowing four um a PE teacher because I think that's always been talked about is do we need that many physical education teachers one teacher per building so a total of four teachers there and one guidance counselor at the elementary level and one guidance counselor at the high school middle school level. Just as an example, I mean, these are just examples. Um, that's only going to save us

008$96,000. So, the the point being, you're looking at if you needed to make up a $1.6 million budget shortfall, it can't all come on the backs of staff, right? That's a lot of staff in one year. Yeah. Correct. Correct. >> Yeah. So, the next slide I have is basically looking at programs, programs that aren't necessarily needed to get your high school diploma. And I put down the cost that it currently is impacting our budget. um anywhere from, you know, athletics, our WACTC programs, looking at music band, chorus, FFA, art, industrial arts, our pen commercial, the business education program, and our family consumer science program. So, these are all programs, not necessarily these classes or activities are needed to get a a high school diploma. And these are things that we're going to have to have

009tough conversations about moving forward. >> Um, cyber charter school. So, our costs have actually decreased based on the new funding formula that the state created. Plus, we we have had a students return in school compared to doing cyber charter. So, we for 2526 will see a decrease in cost over 2425 for sure. But still, one regular education student cost the district 12,500. One special education student cost the district 236. And those are our current numbers currently enrolled in cyber charter schools. On the next slide, I just put the historical data. So this year we have 61, 22, 23, we had 69, 23, 24, we had 73, and last year we had 66. So we have gone from 66 to 61 there. But the biggest savings there was going from 26 special education students last year

010because last year it cost us about 33,000 a student to this year only having 15. >> Yeah. But if you look at the next page out placements some of those special education students are outplaced. Of course our trans transformation learning costs our district 34,200 per student. We have seven currently there and Watson Institute is 66,900 per student and we have five currently there. And of course, these are students that just have special needs that we cannot accommodate and a lot of the medical needs. But those are ways that if we can bring some of those students inhouse, if we had the ability to service them inhouse, that could save the district money as well. And then the next slides just are things that we just have no control over in order to lower costs. We

011don't have control over really what we're paying for healthcare other than what are we asking our employees to contribute towards their premiums. Energy costs basically out of our control. We try to keep that down by being in those consortiums both for health care and energy costs. fuel costs. We know where they are right now. And just general inflation. I mean, it's up almost 3% this year alone. And that's continuing. That's what it was last year as well. >> Sure. Anyone else had um retirement for our staff and that number has fluctuated. It's kind of leveled off for a little bit, but we know that's going to continue to also be a number that we're have to be aware of. >> Yeah. And then I wanted to just talk about the Joe Walker consolidation a little

012bit. This work was done I think it was 2023 and in your packet I have near the end of your packet there is a sheet that says Joe Walker cost savings and this was the analysis run back in 2023 on what the estimated cost savings to the district could be by consolidating Joe Walker. Now, this was not taking into consideration any facility upgrades that would be needed at Clay'sville or Middle School to house the students depending on the direction they went. But if you look at that second page, it'll give you the total was about $620,000 a year. And the majority of that is salaries. >> And that was free. >> That was Yeah. The idea there was um the reduction looking at the numbers, keeping the numbers at the time close to the average

013um that we had at Clayville and Joe Walker. Um it was basically one teacher per day. So you're talking about six teachers, one less uh police officer of course one administrator so it was pretty much at every level at least one less person >> right >> yes yes so yeah those are using the 23 24 numbers at that time >> I don't think I shared this with char but we did do um a costing out but I guess I didn't get that to you now that I'm looking at this we we looked at for example what it would be to convert uh second floor is where we right now have our wrestling mats and at the time again this is22 2023 Craven Key estimated to be about $25,000 a classroom to convert it from where

014it is existing. Uh and then also we looked at um what it would be to have additional parking needed as well as paving because now we're talking about more buses there, more individuals. So yeah, as Char said, there was additional costs uh to making this happen. >> Yeah. >> So you said 75,000 was the estimation to make Claysville >> a classroom. So >> classav >> after that's that would have been 23 >> just consolidated without you. Yeah, >> that's what that is. That's what >> 123 >> and the total was 619,000, >> right? >> With salaries including >> Yeah. >> And so we would say 619 >> if we had to. >> Okay. >> Without any upgrades, without >> Well, and it was amazing. I mean, It wasn't even as simple as that because um

015our occupancy rate right now is 570 and that would push again and even now I think our numbers are still 25 students over. So even if we were to say let's consolidate you still could consolidate all the grades in there because our occupancy rate is at a max with the current numbers we have at Joe Walker. So then that caused us to then look up here >> which is another >> so it wasn't as simple as >> two coming into one >> to be quite honest I don't see that consolidation being a near future >> issue >> and then that means we have to look at how do we have bigger savings and that's staff salaries benefits and programs that we offer Oh, I know. You brought up like how much from like from 2018

016to now like $600,000. I can't remember right off the top. >> I I have >> it's over a hundred I think. >> Yeah. >> And ultimately I think feeling the result of those >> um in your packet behind your I wanted to talk a little bit about revenue because you heard me say we we're limited on our revenue resources obviously the first thing that in there in there is our largest real property owners and the top 10 are listed here and six of of them are energy companies and my fear console owns one and two which is four almost $45,000 and assessed property values. So when console mines it and doesn't sell it for somebody to rebuild on it, we have no property value left and we have no income and real estate tax revenue

017coming from these companies. That is a big concern. We don't, and you've heard me say this before, we don't have the infrastructure to have huge developments or businesses coming in. Other than South Franklin and really up to Claysville, do we have public water and sewage? And South Franklin doesn't even really have public. They have their own sewage right there. That is a deterrent for any new developments and any businesses to come into the build to the district which then means we don't have a revenue source. We have to again continue to rely on our community and the taxpayers that are here and that's a hardship on that moment. I understand that. So revenue-wise it doesn't look good. expense-wise, it doesn't look good, right? Um, the next sheet in there is just again a reminder of

018what our assessed property values have been since 1718, what the tax rate was each of those years, and the revenue collected at 100% rate. Now, you know, we don't collect at 100% rate, but that's I have it listed here just to make it a little bit easier. And again, when we're not incrementally increasing taxes, we're losing that revenue. I also wanted just to remind everybody, this is not unique to us. >> The next thing you have in here is a cost per student. This is a Pennsylvania data um Pennsylvania public schools nations report card data and it shows that from 201213 the per pupil expenditure that has increased dramatically from 201213 where it was a little under 15,000 per student to now where it's $22,000 per student. and the amount of enrollment that has decreased

019over that same period of time. So for less students, districts are contributing more per pupil for a lot less students. The second graph there is just um showing how that per pupil expenditure is impacting grade grade eight scores. Not that that's relative to our budget discussions, but I thought it was interesting information for you to have. And just so you know that we are not in this boat alone. There are almost all school districts are having this problem, right? Uh the next thing in your packet, you know, one of the things we need to do is talk about since we're going to talk about staffing, what does our classroom sizes look like, right? I have our enrollment projections going out through 2032. And this data was done back in 17 or back in 2023 because

020they have the actuals from 1718 all the way up to 2122. >> Yeah. >> So, so 2122 all of those numbers are actuals and then everything below that are the projections. Now I will say for 20 let me see where it starts with okay 2223 they had projected 1531 and we were at 1534. For 2324 they projected 1508 and we were at 1531. 2425 they projected 1529 we were 1518. 2526 they projected 1529 we're at 15 or I'm sorry 2526 they projected 1490 and we're at 1525. Their projections from there go down until we hit the 3132 year where they have us at 1,335 students. I also included the class size trends in public education. Now these are the national averages where you can see elementary, middle, and high school. Elementary at 21 students per

021class, middle school at 25, and high school at 27. And again, those are national averages. And again, I understand the impact on student learning, the bigger the class sizes are. >> I'd like to see what that graph would be if you know what I'm saying. Size of classes increased compared to Yeah. >> grades grade eight. >> Yeah. I don't know if they have it. So, I'm saying that it would be interesting, >> right? >> I've just been comparing to like other school districts that I'm seeing. And I know there's so many factors that go into that, but that's what I have to use. And >> sometimes they have class sizes are the same regardless of the school district. I mean, similar. And it does. Sometimes it doesn't make a difference and sometimes it makes a

022dramatic difference. >> Exactly. It depends on your student body. And yeah, >> one of the last things I put in here, just as an FYI, is a budget from 21 school year. So they at that point was look were looking at $2.5 million deficit and then here were the strategies to try to lower that deficit. And I found it interesting. I mean, McGuffy, I think year after year, continues to see a deficit. and we managed to find ways to make it happen. But we cannot continue to go down this path if we want to be financially stable in the future. So we have to start being creative. We have to start looking at ways to save money because we know right now our revenue from state and federal governments are not increasing. Um and we

023don't have a big tax base to raise taxes either. But I thought it was interesting that that budget information was provided there and it it gives you perspective of where we are today a little bit better because we were only at 1.6 when their tax increase, right? >> Charlene, I have just a couple of questions on the per pupil expenditure versus PA public school enrollment. Um, do those numbers reflect salary and benefits as well or is that just that's that's >> straight across that's how much it cost with everything. >> So typically what they do to find a per pupil expenditure is they look at your budget >> and they divide those salaries anything that's teaching related. They really don't include facility maintenance and things like that, but anything that is a salary benefit of

024the teaching staff, um some support staff, of course, they use those figures and divide it by the number of students that attend that school and that gives you your per pupil expenditure. >> Okay, that's what I thought. I just wanted to be sure. And then in the um enrollment history and projections, do we know what the projections were for those years that we have the actuals for now or could the board get those? Because historically the projections have been incorrect. >> So the on this sheet here they did this work in 2022 23 I believe. >> No, it was it was much earlier than that. >> Okay. >> It was but but you're right. I mean, they have been inaccurate since they first came out. >> Okay. >> But they have the actuals listed there

025for those years and not projections. So, I don't know >> right >> where the projections were, what they were prior years. It's just I'd like to I think a piece of the puzzle would be to find out what they projected versus what they ended up actually being to help us use the other projections on maybe getting a gig on how far off they might be. If that makes sense. >> I I would suggest So this is something again I've shown before. This was um conducted from HHSR SPR uh when they were looking at some renovations uh as it was coming on during COVID for Joe Walker. Uh they use numbers that was provided to them from PTE. PDE has historically not been as accurate as actually contracting someone who would come in >> and do

026exactly what you're saying, actually historical analysis to give you a better projection because this has not met where we are. >> Right. in terms of that. So I I think you're on you're definitely on par with like saying okay that's really get an accurate number here but I don't know if this here is going to help us as much other than to say we've been above where they projected to this point >> right no what what I'm saying is wherever these numbers came from which you're saying PTE >> if we could see what the projections were before they had the actuals >> do you understand what I mean >> well you do you have >> no not for years >> yeah for I think 2020. >> Yeah, I I can put this in my notes.

027I I want to say we have something even earlier because there was a um there was a sort of perspectives put out on what it would cost to run Joe Walker. >> Oh, okay. >> And and so bas and again they were basing that on hey there's going to be a need for Joe Walker for X amount of years. So I can put on my notes to see if I can find that. >> Yeah. I mean is it is this public information on Mhm. >> So they may even have the >> project I I mean I don't I don't know what that's what I mean. Once they have the actuals, we might not have the projected totals anymore, >> right? And that's what I think. That's why they use >> the actuals in here, >>

028right? My logic is if we could gauge how far off they were, we could use the projections that they have here a little more wisely >> and not say this is what it's for sure going to be. But we can look now and and see also we have numbers for our kindergarten this year and of course we have our current numbers. So there we can do our own sort of internal based on our numbers. Um but yeah to your point I think it would probably be worthwhile if we're really serious about looking at again the talk this is said that for a long time brought up about consolidation that would be something I think would merit us getting a true more accurate number based on someone else coming in actually doing it and there's there's

029plenty organizations that are out there that can do that for us. >> Okay. Thank you. And it's good data to know too what to look at the number of teachers you're going to need from year to year as well. >> Yeah, for sure. >> From this point, I think we need to start basically setting goals for 27 28. >> Where do you as a board want to see us try to to save money? I mean, we have I've talked to insurance companies to get our insurance liabilities down. I'm reviewing contracts as they come up to try to save money on those. Um, but again, twothirds of our budget, salary and benefits, right? So with and I know this is probably thousands compared to millions, but with the um the consortium for the like electric um

030energy costs. I know there are other districts that have or I shouldn't say have but are shopping around to see if there are other consortions. Have we done that recently? We have not because we have found that the IU1 consortium has been cheaper than other private because they charge you fees and things like that and they don't. >> So there's not other consortiums then it my understanding is that there's other consortiums. >> Well there probably is misunderstanding. No, they're probably Well, I I can look into it, but I I would say that we're going to get the best one through the IU1 because that's what the IU1 is there for is to support school districts, >> right? >> Oh, right. I'm sure. I'm sure. I think that would be an area we could look at

031um to see what else is out there. Um I I wouldn't even have known that there were others if >> Yeah. Other people have said, "Oh, our district's doing this." Like, "Oh, I didn't know that was an option." >> Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. All right. Um, so thank you. I appreciate the time. Um, one of the things that I forgot to preface the meeting with is that we were going to allow public comment at the end of the meeting. I know there's nobody here. I'm just stating it for public knowledge that um, you know, we would allow for public comment. Um, I would ask to limit it to three minutes instead of the normal five. This isn't our regular meeting. It's not the typical thing that we do, but um it is a public meeting

032and legally we should require it to allow for the public comment um only for agenda. Only for agenda. Um and then of course they would have the opportunity to speak more about it at the next voting meeting. Um, with that being said, I would like to ask um those on the the budget committee to speak on what your thoughts are like what are your ideas? Where do you see where maybe we the rest of the board could look at things from a different perspective or you know you guys are both numbers people so >> yeah I get that. >> Yeah. But I'm interested in hearing your feedback as well as everybody else's. But at least for me, I think that's where we need to start to get a direction on which way we're going to

033go. You know, like, and this is kind of what we talk about at almost every budget meeting. You know, our our income is pretty locked in taxes funding, government funding, >> pretty much it. You know, we try to think >> outside of the box to get other sources of revenue when we struggle with that. We talked one meeting, I don't know if it was like January or February, we talked about selling the rights to the football field or something. >> Yeah. >> You know, and quite frankly, that's an option, but that's really not the kind of money. I mean, sure, >> right? >> Pennies in a bucket. Yeah. >> Right. So, you know, I guess what I'm trying to say is we're kind of stagnant on ideas of where to get money from accessory tax.

034You know, that's really the only plausible >> right >> way and quite frankly I think going over the budget and you know, Mrs. Robert has shown us slide after slide has been very detailed. you know what categories of expenses are. You know, >> we're pretty barebones. >> Yeah. >> I mean, we are >> and I think some of the cuts that have been made, I think we're on the verge of our students starting to feel the effects of it. >> And I personally don't want that to happen. >> Right. >> So, I'm not going to be a person to sit here and tell you we got to save money >> because to me that's not an option. >> Sure. >> Because we still have to produce a student that can graduate from here and be

035productive in society. Whether they go to college, get a job, go to a trade school, whatever they do, >> we still have to be able to give them the tools that they need to be able to do that. And once we start cutting any more programs that we have, I think we're hindering that challenge. >> So cutting programs is not really a possibility. >> So that I see That's pretty much what I have. >> Well, to add to that, um I wanted to look back at the um during the last school board meeting, I made some comments regarding this and I just wanted to reiterate them. Um from 20 uh 17 to 2026, we saw a 18.5% tax increase and we saw a negative 8.8% 8% assessed value decrease. >> So, and if we if

036we looked at the numbers that would have net us this year 600 or 600 $163,000 less than what we had in 2020 2017 2018 um 40% of the time we didn't raise uh taxes. So that means 60% time that we did year-over-year. Um, and another thing that I want to look at is if we maxed every year of the um the tax rate, if we would have went up every single year, even though that we didn't, if we would have, we would have been at 16.864 mills, uh, which would be the third highest in the uh, county. Our revenue would be at 15.3 million give or take. Um and over from 2017 to 2026 we would have collected 115.1 million and that is what we sorry that is what we had collected now 115.1 million

037over that time period. If we would have maxed out it would have been at 123.5 million which is an $ 8.4 million potential that we had lost because we didn't raise taxes over that period of time. And cumulative over the time period. So there's >> time period was what we were given 20 178 till now. >> So if we were looking at that we would have had $8.4 million more than what we had now even though that we didn't raise taxes and that's in the past. So we can't really do anything about that. But just for perspective is that we could not be in this situation if we had increased then >> to now. Um, and I I have some other ideas and they're I don't know. They're kind of radical ideas. I don't know.

038I don't find divine radicals before honestly. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I guess. I guess. Um, so I brought this up in a meeting before. It was rent versus seller finance. >> I brought up seller finance. um if we were to consolidate Joe Walker um and if we didn't use any of the bond money on Joe Walker and we used it on upgrading the two schools to consolidate them to the two schools. So the idea was roughly um based on the numbers that I saw we were going to spend about $2 million on Joe Walker upgrades over the 20 years plus interest that was going to be right around 3.6 million. Um, if we were to take that down to a over the 20 years per month basis, it's $15,189 give or take. The um we

039get some rent collective from >> transformation learning. Yeah. Which is right around 12,000 >> 12,000 something. So, let's say that we did the bond and we put the bond in into Joe Walker, what we planned on it. So, that would be 15,000 roughly $15,000. >> And for us to net zero on that, if they were to go and rent that from us, we would have to more than double their rent >> to rent that. And we would have to put money into that school perpetually over the years rather than in my idea seller finance would be we could just barely up their rent but they own the building and they would have to do the upgrades the maintenance if they wanted to. Not saying that they would but if they wanted to because it's not

040on us to do. >> So now that would save us over the 20-year period the $3.6 million. So, and I'm not saying that that would be perfect. It would be there would be money that we'd have to spend here, but that would be a part of the bond. That's $2 million that we could spend on the two schools to upgrade them to get them ready to take on the students. And um we would be net zero if they just rented to add $15,000 over there. Not saying that we couldn't get more rent revenue out of someone else or out of another school. That would be that would help us consolidate into two schools, but that would be us instead of spending $2 million, we'd be even on the $2 million or 3.6, sorry, $3.6 million

041over over the 20 years. So now that's us making back $3.6 million out of that. Just that. >> When you say, you're actually talking about transformation, >> it could be anyone. It could be anyone. But if it was transformation learning going into there >> that >> you lose out 12,000 >> if we rented that we still have that facility we could still either rent that or >> yeah but I'm saying that if you wouldn't lose out on it because you would be getting it from them but you wouldn't be spending it on that school. you'd be spending it on consolidation which might happen in 5 years 10 years regardless over this 20-year note we're spending which would be a over the 20 years it's 46% interest on the over the 20 years so if we're

042going to be spending money on anything and we're planning on consolidation at some point it would make sense rather than spending money on Joe Walker to spend it on building getting ready for consolidation over a period of time >> that would be if they moved to Joe Walker, we doubled the rent and they took >> We wouldn't have to double the rent. We could just rent it at $15,000. $15,000 would be what our bond is. We'd be net zero on the bond now. >> So, go back to where you said we would almost have to double >> if if we did the bond. If we if we had the bond and we put it into Joe Walker, we would have to more than double what their rent is to net zero on the bond. >>

043Gotcha. Okay. So we didn't consolidate. They stayed where they were. We were just comparing transformation grants to >> Yes. >> matching. Okay. >> So that would be the only way that we could net zero is if it was almost $30 $30,000 a month >> on that. That would be the net zero on that. If we put the money into Joe Walker. If they decided that they didn't want to or that they didn't see a need for it at that point, that's their decision. That that's what seller finance allows them to do. Seller finance, they pay us with a little bit of interest. It could be no interest even at this rate because it wouldn't matter either way. But if there was interest on it, we could collect more revenue. They could make the decisions on

044their own. It's not our building. It's theirs. >> They would have to pay in but we're their bank more or less. So rather >> Exactly. on to us, not to the bank. Right. >> So that would be that that was a radical idea that I just was spinning around and >> if the if the numbers worked, it would work. But if the numbers don't work or if they don't decide that they want the school or >> if anyone else >> apolog then with the assumption that we're not going to invest at all. >> Yes. Right. That that would be their decision if they did it. >> That would be that would be the only way that I see us having a close to a balanced budget without reducing staff except for consolidation staff. So if

045we don't reduce them now, you know what I'm saying? And don't that >> Yep. But we would have already collected. >> Yes. >> Exactly. Or to do whatever you wanted with it because it would be ours. >> Yep. >> And and that could and also I wanted to preface that could add we might have to pay more later down the road if they were to go and walk away from it. let's say for example when it becomes ours that that could have added cost because now we're not we don't have that building now we'd have to either or well we do have the building but what I'm saying is we're not staffing that building or anything it's just sitting there rotting unless unless we sell it unless if we have another renter unless if we

046have someone else that could add cost later down the road but that would be only if they didn't want the building anymore whoever were to >> that I know so it could it could take time and that but like I'm saying that that would an added cost later down the road. But >> I think that that would be the only way that that would be the I I guess the easiest way to get to or I don't know if that would be the easiest, but the easiest way to get to net zero on our rather than negative on our budget, but I'm not saying that that's a perfect solution or that's anywhere near what we could do. But I said it was a radical idea before I started. So >> listen, >> yeah, at least

047I started with that. I am not somebody who thinks, you know, just because, you know, the floor is open for the conversations. We have to have the conversations. If we keep ignoring it and stifling it, >> we're going to keep doing the same things over and over again. So, >> radical or not, >> it's something we all need to think about and consider that might be a reality in the future. Yeah. Whether we like it or not. But we as a whole, >> we have to, >> right? >> Yes. >> And and if we kept both buildings, we could rent or didn't keep. If we sold seller finance to them or anyone over there at Joe Walker, we could keep what cost us not really anything >> to have transformation, not transformation learning, but Blame

048Buffalo School, >> have that and have someone else rent that or sell that at some rate. So, that would be another revenue at that >> if there's somebody who would want to buy it or if there was somebody who wanted to re to rent it. I don't know. There's a that's a there's a big ifs on renting seller finance finance. But if that if that if happens that that would get us near >> near um >> closer >> I don't know if it would get us exactly >> but it would get us closer to net zero >> right time you know >> and that's why that's why >> he makes you wait I think a whole year. >> Yeah you're looking at probably from start to finish. I mean I you and I had this

049discussion three years ago about 18 months we were to start this process in earnest today I should say and and the the work that go into it the communication has to happen on our part they're looking at not quite not quite two school years but that was something that you know we wanted to just >> no you're saying to that point the offset of that is the thought that it would be for us to retrofit >> Glazville and again potentially because of our our ceiling is such with our occupancy at Fil we're looking at possibly having like an intermediate school here with fifth grade coming here >> from both just to make it work. I mean, there's other ways to kind of think about too, but listen, we can talk about having like a primary,

050intermediate, but um, right. So, there's other costs we'd have to look at and that would be another bond that we'd have to look at. >> That was a part of the 2 million that I was talking about. I don't know if it would fit in there, but the $2 million bond instead of Joe Walker put it into >> Yeah, that's where that was in that. So, we wouldn't have that as an added cost. It would be into the bond already. So it would be part of >> part of the bond if if not all if it did take two million I don't know how much it would take but what it would take there would be $2 million roughly what we'd be putting in Joe Walker would be putting here >> well >> but >>

051I don't know what we've discussed >> and it's not earthy but again you look at what we have currently I would concur with what Mr. said about program services we have cut to the bare bare bones is really a fair way of saying where we are at this point from just you know less than eight years ago. Um the one thing that continues to make sense when you have a deficit is the continuation of consolidation discussion. I I there's just no I mean there's really no other way out because even when you look at the numbers that we are continuing every year to increase to whatever the index the state gives us we're still going to face a deficit every year moving forward. that is that that is a sure you know and so that's

052one thing again we have to really that's that would be my two cents for this discussion is um I know we're not there at this moment but if we're going to make this up it's going to have to be some kind of talk in the future um for that type of consolidation talk it was something that we started in 2223 and it was kind of put off a little bit and I understand the feelings and listen when I say this um Walker is a special school to have in your your district. So is quas. >> But but that type of intimacy that occurs in a building that size um has long-term implications either way >> for um for our kids and it is a special thing to have but again we're not at a point

053where we can't not not consider that. So the more we have those discussions and I think it is also be beneficial for our community to be hearing these things. They need they need to be made aware that where we are, what we're considering, and that discussion has to be for them also because they're, >> you know, it should never come out of the blue and and I think in this case it's not going to, but certainly they need to be part of that, >> right? Um, with the cyber charter enrollment because I know that's always a hot topic um that gets brought up. Do we know what brought the students back, those that came back? I know Dr. Ober caller almost every single one of those families. >> We call families. Not every single one.

054I can't say that, but I reached out to every single one or that we worked to. I think one of the things we're going to try to do again this year. So when you when you talk to because again, as you all know, I was on the other side of things, right? I was a Pennsylvania cyber school for about seven years. >> When you call them, you have to be able to answer their why. And for every parent of every child that has left to go to a cyber charter or even a charter option, we had a few students actually went to Lincoln Park. >> Um, you have to understand what their why is and it's different for every child. >> And are you able to meet that why in many cases it's not a

055way there's nothing that we can do as an example. um they may feel that the schedule itself that we offer here that starts at 8:00, finishes around 3:00 is limiting to what their child's trying to do when it comes to performing arts or something of that nature. That's one but that's one subset of a lot of reasons. So I am um I have it on my calendar to make a concerted effort again to reach out to the families because one of the things too is I need to understand their why in that conversation with the family that has left and >> think about this way for any of those families probably all the families making this move was a radical move because they themselves probably did not attend a cyber charter. So, this is a

056pretty radical move that they're they're moving. So, what I need to understand from talking to them is what was it about your experience with public schools because they may not even been with us, >> right? >> We have students that move into our district that we find out about, but they're moving into our district, but but they're in a cyber school. >> Yeah. >> Right. So, there's there and again understand too, >> uh, from a summer perspectives, um, it's summer, but we are busy, >> right? Summer summer summer's going to come, you know, I mean, I think you stand that, but I will make a concerted effort again to reach out to those families. A lot of what we saw was just a discussion around and char that number up, special education, >> wanting to

057know what is it that we're going to provide. So, having that discussion, that would be a further discussion that I'd bring Kelly and Mate in or someone of that nature to have that. >> Well, I do think it helped this year that we had an autism class. We had the emotional support classes elementary that brought back some of those students. >> Well, that yeah, that's that's what I'm looking for was like what what did we change that maybe brought the students back that came back because maybe that >> they're going for support services that we can't offer. We got to look at the expense of user% >> compared to what it cost, >> right? >> And a few of their students um actually ended up being in our, you know, cyber program, too. So, it's

058not like we're apples actually coming back. They may realize, okay, I can do some things within the school, get them got the, you know, diploma at the end of the day. Um, and and that's and since I brought that up because I know this is something that I've tried to share with the board in the past. Remember to we're offering a completely asynchronous option when it comes to uh cyber education. Meaning the student partakes in their education any time of the day, hour, right? Part part of the year, weekend. Um whereas a lot of cyers offer both a combination of asynchronous at their own pace in their own place and synchronous meaning that there's specific times during the week where they have a virtual teacher with them >> and that's not something that we offer

059you. You know currently we don't do that. So that's where that's also there. >> Well, oh asynchronous is absolutely you can do you can do volume business with asynchronous because you can have one teacher and have literally they can have four students. I mean it's it's that that that's the model right and and often times even now especially with AI you can have it so that a lot of what's graded is electronically graded so it doesn't require much from a teacher perspective a teacher that's one of the things I I talked to the district when I first came on board was we're going to compete we need to look at the option of having a synchronous component as well because a lot of students you know because here's the thing about district too again I

060don't want to go down the line of talking about cyber charters but when students leave schools often times they're leaving a situation where they weren't performing very well to begin with >> and now we're placing them into an environment where there's no structure from the teacher. Uh their their assignments are due as a time not a very you know expediated time but over a time period. >> Um so all those factors are not good for students to be successful. Oh by the way did I mention you should be selfm motivated you should be intrinsically motivated to do this and that's again not that student typically. So um and that's why the cyber charters that are large like Commonwealth PA cyber they offer a synchronous component where they actually have live classroom instruction. So anyway >>

061no with since you mentioned that with and I guess this really isn't budget but well no it is it ties into the cyber charter but with with the with the mixy that we offer do we know how students are doing attendance-wise? So attendance is different, right? So attendance here is button a seat and attendance there is work completed. So it's actually actually it's a higher level yeah of attendance. >> Um I I can look that up. That's yeah it's not budget but I can look that up. I I would I would like for you to provide the board with I I guess from start to finish how the mix cyber is working, you know, from from attendance to to how grades look, right? Student success. I think we need to look at that because if

062that if we could improve that that could further assist with the cyber charters outside of the district. Um, I think I've asked before about it and you know it's kind of hit or miss whether or not they're doing well. If we could focus on that and help improve that somehow some way. >> Well, yeah, and I can certainly bring it up. And again, as I just said, keep in mind these are students that typically are not doing well. >> I understand our environment that is synchronous. And so it's it's even more >> of a struggle. We have a few seniors um that we've been pushing these last few weeks to get their work turned in. >> Sure. >> It's just just recognize that what we're talking about here is you know that kind of Yeah.

063>> Right. Right. I understand. Yes. Thank you. >> Question probably. >> Yes. Do we have transfer students? >> Yes. Yes, we have um in our vote program, we have a young lady from Washington, I want to say. >> Oh, that's someone here. >> No, I mean going I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. >> Yeah, the other way. >> That's what I was trying to think. I don't know. >> I know. Last year we did actually going to Trinity. >> I don't know that. Okay. >> I haven't seen any bills from anybody for tuition. >> Usually they go up. Do they have a time frame? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You may have answered this already, but out of those 46 students that are cyber charter, how many are mixed cyber? >> Oh, no. Those are >> those

064separate from >> separate. So, none of this is the mixed cyber on our slide. Okay. Okay. I'm glad you asked. >> I don't have the numbers for that. >> Um I'm going to give you a ballpark. Um that middle school, high school, we have none at the elementary. It's in the 55 50 range. >> Elementary. >> No elementary. No elementary. >> Middle school. >> Yes. >> Ballpark. >> That's okay. So, this 46 is like Something is fiber charter connection distance. >> Not mixy that cost >> righty cost to not >> not like that. >> No, we we uh we renegotiated actually speaking of what we've done um there is consortium price uh through Lincoln learning that you could get to the IU but as you guys know I have connections to them. was able to

065get us a little bit lower price uh for those classes. So, we've actually paid better than what our counterparts are in IU1. >> Do we have any other um do we have any teachers that brought their their kids? >> Oh, yeah. >> Not the past year. No. >> Okay. >> I've had one teacher reach out to me this past spring at not heard anything from at one of our elementaryaries. Um but nothing >> like you >> from my perspective with budget. I think the immediate reduction of expenses is obviously going to come from staffing further obviously and I think that discussion needs to happen with Ford of your comfort level with how many students in a classroom right I mean we had the opportunity to move a first grade teacher over to Joe Walker and

066save on higher that would have taken those students is from 13 in a class to 17 in a class. >> So, is 17 too many in a first grade class? We need to those are the types of things when when things come up and we have a teacher that's leaving or a need to fill a position, we need to be looking creatively internally to see how we can make it happen without adding to our salary. So what I would what I would say to that because I I've also felt that needs to be a conversation that we should have um because I think that would also help us make a decision moving forward on what we're going to do, right? >> But I think at least for me, I would have to rely on our

067administration to to dive into that. you know, what are the what what are the what are the stats with that, you know, from district to district? Are we looking at comparable districts that have cut classes and and and have a bigger class size now that, you know, how are those students doing? I think that that's really for me that's the sticking point for the not we have a phenomenal reading program right now in our elementary. When I say my kindergartenner was reading reading over my shoulder in kindergarten, reading my text messages, reading the computer, reading the television, that is not an exaggeration. And I think that is phenomenal. That's what I wanted >> in public education. That's what it should be in public education. I would never want to take that away because that's where

068those foundational skills are honed in on and they just continue with as they go along. >> We need more advocacy to state agencies about the subsidies and the formulas they're using to distribute money to public education. I googled the four school districts that balance their budget. >> Yeah. >> One of them receives $8 million in the ready to learn block grant. We get 350,000. >> Yeah. >> They also get a tax adequacy bump in their state subsidies. >> Yeah. >> Those are things we don't get. >> Okay. And so we need to start reaching out to our legislators in this area because we are not the only one in this area that is feeling a graduating 33 this year. >> They are getting $4 million in tax revenue. you know, how are these school districts

069going to sustain at the inflation rate and, you know, everything's going up and then the state subsidies are flat or even decreasing because ours went down a little bit. >> Our title one money went down a little bit. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh, you hear >> Oh, believe me% of the schools are what we're going >> Yeah. I'm sure. >> And I I don't know how often you listen to the news, but most of the times when I hear news reports about board meetings, it's been they've approved furlow, potential furlows. They haven't really furled anybody at this point, but they have made those decisions early to say if we need to furlow, then we'll >> Yeah, this is your notice. >> Um, it's everywhere. I mean, the Mount Lebanon was one that did that. Mount

070Lebanon is you consider a wealthy school district >> and they made a motion to approve fur loans if needed. Charlene, I'm sorry you gave it to us, but so we're saying our average class size is 17. >> What is the average? >> Well, what I gave you is a national average. >> I was looking for Pennsylvania. >> Yeah, I um could not find a Pennsylvania specific one on their website. On the PD website. I'm sure it's out there somewhere. I just could not find it for reason. 17 kids is only in first grade. Correct. >> No, that's even less than that. >> First grade has 13 kindergarten and first, we've always attempted to keep it 15 and below. >> And then with that, moving up, you know, between 20 and and 24. Um, and also

071too, if you look at our classroom configurations, uh, the size requirements that we have at Joe Walker are vastly different because of the way the rooms were created versus. >> Um, so there's even there's even a max number because we looked at that. We looked at what would be the max number you could have in a classroom, right? If you were to say reduce by one teacher. Um, so but you know, looking at next year's numbers, so this right here, I actually copy. These are our projections just through kindergarten through fifth grade based on our kindergarten enrollments that occurred a month ago. Knowing full well that what we're going to be looking at in both cases, Joe Walker and Clay'sville, here's a handful of folks that will come to us between now and August. Right?

072So what you'll see there for kindergarten at Joe Walker is our projected for next year and it's 38 and our projected right now for kindergarten at Clayville is 62. Now all you have to do is look at the projected first grade in both of those buildings and know those are the current kindergarten numbers at Joe Walker. So again right now at Joe Walker we have 27 students in kindergarten and right now at Clayville we have 73 kindergarten students. Does that make sense? Okay. So, um what you're seeing there then with the kindergarten and this is going to be another discussion for personnel to look at is we're very close to having to split our two kindergarten teachers at Jo Walker into three classes if we want to have those numbers of 15 or less. Because

073if you go to third, fourth, and fifth grade, those are the grades where we increased the number of kindergarten teachers we had at Joe Walker from two to three. >> Fifth grade teachers. >> Well, in No, no. So third, so projected next year, third, fourth, and fifth, those are the classes when it came through as kindergarten that we were using money, >> we increased. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah, we increased because we had that little bit of a tunnel wave because typically you can see here we've been 27 26 and then we have these bumps right here. We're having another bump right now. However, conversely, if you look at the kindergarten right now registration for high school, we're at 62. In the past, we've been in the mid to upper 70s. I'm not saying we won't

074get closer to that because again, we see that, but that's where we are right now. Um so you can see the ratios you know average ratio teacher uh to students of next year 2 to 19 as of right now for kindergarten at Joe Walker and it's five teachers. So it's five it's 12 students uh as of right now. So 12. >> You can see here actually it's it's kind of been it's it's been >> I mean >> Oh yes. Yes. >> I mean I had 30 classes. >> I know. I was just thinking of why it decreased so much or you know the use of so many other >> tools >> teaching tools. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> To put that all together doesn't make sense compared to what it used to be. >> Definitely. Definitely.

075>> Yeah. >> I remember I don't So my question was just for clarification. You're these the two the average ratios that you have here. You're saying I'll just use Clayville as an example. There's five kindergarten teachers. All five of those teachers have 12 students. I'm just making on average. I just wanted to make sure I understood that. Thank you. >> Y >> and this is what's projected for next year. >> Right. As of as of right now. >> As of right now. >> Yeah. more likely what you see first through fifth is not going to change but again with the registration for kindergarten you'll see those numbers bump and that's one of the things we're looking at for kindergarten for again Joe Walker is do we want to have numbers where it's one teacher versus

076per 20 >> but because again at Clayville you have one teacher versus 12 students right um and so that's something we have to consider you know and and those are things we're we're talking about internally right now, but I'll definitely bring up as we get closer. >> We have to start, I think, giving options, too. I mean, if we have 38 students at Joe Walker and two classrooms at 19 and Clay ends up with five classes where there's 12. Are there parents who would want to take their kids to Clayville to be in kindergarten there to give us a break on having to hire another teacher? you know, we got to look at some outside of the box options, right? >> Yeah. No, I totally agree. And I know there's been conversations in the community

077about people wanting to >> I'm going to use the word swap building. I know >> just because but I mean that you know >> I know that's typically not something that that we do because our district line, >> right? >> But I think >> if it's an opportunity to save $100,000 on a teacher salary, >> right? And you know, Dr. Over brought up the Eper's money. We hired a lot of not a lot, but we hired, >> you know, and and we didn't lose them when that money went away. We are picking up that, >> right? Yeah. Well, and that that those are the kind of things that at least for me and from the community's perspective that has approached me about budget type conversations, you know, they they feel that that was not live

078spending of eser funds because it wasn't it it wasn't a permanent >> income. It it was temporary, very temporary. It was known to be temporary. And you know, and we're not the only ones who did that. you know, everybody hired staff with that money, but now look what we're looking at. It was almost like, you know, their perception is we shot ourselves in the foot and now we want to pass the buck on to them because we made a poor decision financially. >> Well, to be clear, um I don't bid with a poor decision. In fact, in those years since we have continued to decrease staffing. So, >> it's not as if we have not decreased in other areas. Sure. >> Again, last year's ask of the board was to address just that. So, >>

079I understand that, but I I'll take a little deference to it because that's not the case. >> Sure. >> In that case, we were looking at having a class size of 38 and 39 students. And so, you know, that that's where we used to be. Not the best not the best place, but you know, again, a district that had a deficit. >> Sure. >> We were trying to make up some short, >> right? And that's we could go back to those numbers pre money, but then you're going to have extremely large >> school, right? So, I you know, I hear the community, we like the small sizes, but there is a cost to small sizes. So, we have to convey that message to them. >> Um, this is what your tax dollar is going for,

080right? >> To ensure that our students have smaller class sizes and more opportunities. I think I agree and I think something to further consider is with, you know, offering to the idea of offering maybe parents sending kids to Cla or Joe Walk or whatever to even it all out. Um, we would want to look at, you know, we would have to provide that transportation. Would it truly be a savings when it came down to it if we had to transport students? >> Transporting from Joe Walker to Clayville is going to be way less expensive than >> True. >> Well, yes. If you can find a driver because then you're going to run into >> Right. Right. Exactly. But I mean, we've already had this past year where we had two less drive, at least two

081that I'm aware of. Two less drivers and we had split routes and, you know, kids late to school and it creates a whole new problem that we might not be able to mitigate because if you can't hire a driver, you just can't hire a driver. And you know, we have so many people who drive buses. >> In reality, if they're picking up a bus to go to Joe Walker for kindergarten, let's say, And that might not be the class we want to do it for. We move a fourth grade teacher maybe and have fourth graders. I don't know. But >> yeah, there's definitely some playing around that could be done. >> If somebody's my child is picking up a bus to go to Joe Walker, those buses at Joe Walker have multiple tips on them.

082So they are going to come up here anyway and then they would just transport down >> trans. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right. You might not want to do that with the kindergarten ones. They want to leave them. >> Right. Right. >> Well, that's an option. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. And we would have to be clear that that is an exception because of the classroom size and that that is not an option or opportunity for any >> and to this point the ask has always been a walk or not >> the other that's true that's true. Yes. Um, just u throwing this out there. I somebody told me historically I think when everybody was like throwing everything at the wall to see the sticks about saving money, there was this um suggestion I think

083by Dr. Kad about going to a 4day cool week. >> Oh. >> To save and I think at the time it saved $250,000 on transportation cost. Mhm. >> That that was done I think right before CO struck. She had proposed it if I went back and looked uh 2019 2020 and um had had talks with staff and I think maybe even talked a little bit with the board because that is one of the things it's interesting she was a little bit ahead of her time because we now know that there is the option of having a specific number of days 180 days or specific amount amount of time 990 hours here at the high school. Um, and there is some flexibility there. So, if you want to talk about outside the box, >> right, >>

084you know, there's potential there. But again, now we're treading on the territory of what does that fifth day look like from a structural standpoint? And >> sure, >> California, >> they do. >> There's a few of them that >> there's actually some not too far from us right into Ohio that we're kind of watching. The Ohio has been progressive that way. um a lot of schools are that are doing this tend to be in the Midwest um where uh that's been that's been at play but there's certainly every year and it goes by more and more have looked at that. So I mean again that's something that we want to look at I can definitely investigate and I've only done a very tertiary kind of look at what that would look like. Yeah, I think

085I mean I really think that I really think our administration should dive into all of all of the ideas as much as possible and bring those possibilities to the board as options. I mean because we you we don't we have our perspective and then there's your perspective as the administration and as our teachers and our staff and then there's the students perspective and I this board isn't going to be able to make an educated decision based on the gussy without our administration bringing us that information to be able to make a decision. Um, I mean that that that's my opinion on how I think you need to approach it. I think our administration needs to figure out which would be the most coste effective and beneficial because that's we want that balance. We don't want

086we don't want to cut programs. We don't want to cut staff, but we have to do something. So, what are we going to do? And I think it's it's tough to make. We we can research all we want, but all we have are all the other districts that we don't have the same things they have >> and they don't have what we have. >> And so, you know, sometimes it's comparing apples to apples, but most of the time, to your point, it's comparing apples to oranges because we don't have what they're what they have. And I think if we're really going to dive further into this and make an educated decision, we need that data and how it looks here in McGuffy. Um, if that makes sense. Um, obviously we aren't making any decisions tonight.

087Um, I think all of these ideas are worth diving into because we have to make decisions basically next year if we're going to do anything that's going to benefit the district long term. >> Oh yeah. It has to start 28. >> Yeah. >> So, um, another >> Yeah. >> Correct. I mean, we'll see what happens, right? >> Yeah. >> Two, we double it, which would be We're getting about one and a half million right now. So, another one and a half. >> I'm just, you know, outside the box and not getting it from the land. The land's decreasing, so you got to go to your next revenue. >> Yeah. I mean, that's definitely something we can explore going into the next budget season should have already passed, but >> Right. >> Um I would have

088to do some research on >> the process. >> Yes. Yeah. I mean, I know it has to be on for a vote, but >> just just to be sure, it's 1% for the township. It's half a percent for us, half a for them. So doubling it would be one and a half percent because we would be doubling from half. >> They wouldn't be getting the other. They would just be getting half unless if they were to double theirs, they would get Okay, just to just to double check. >> One we're going to ask for >> ours, too. I just double check >> because there are not a lot but districts that are over the >> Yeah, >> absolutely. I that I looked at that because I was looking at like for example where I work

089now and I was like I thought this I thought the 1% was whenever I was just looking at it from not those perspective I thought the 1% was directed towards the school and I didn't and it it just said so when I got there it was different than what I saw you know that's all my check like I half%. Sorry I sorry guys. >> The only thing about that district is or that tax >> is it's generally paid by people that have schools in the district in the district as a little more palatable than >> the property tax increase. >> Sure. you know, people were seeing the results of it. You know, retired people has an effect now. >> Right. Right. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> I want to clarify your statement just because you

090didn't move outside of the school district. You just work outside of the school district now. >> I know. But you said, "Sorry, guys. I moved out of the school district." I just wanted to clarify that you meant your job moved outside of not your residency. Just there been any kind of >> turmoil or Yes. Yes. >> Right. That was the I thought I know that's not what he means, but somebody might think that's what he needs. >> Yes. >> I'm willing to do any of the the data diving into all of these scenarios. However, I don't want it to be a big waste of time. >> Correct. So if you do not want smaller classrooms, I am not going to do all of the data to say what's it going to look like >> for

09120 kids at a class. >> Correct. >> So I would rather you tell me this is what I want you to tell me what it's going to take, >> right? >> You know, right? >> But maybe you did want to see what it's going to look like to have bigger classroom sizes. >> Are we going to have another working session like this or >> we certainly can consolidation? No, just in general >> for 27.8. >> Yeah. So 26.7 in my mind. >> So like have another one of these for 2728 just because they're >> Yeah, we have those at any time. I mean, >> yeah, we do our budget. >> Yeah, I just wish I thought I thought the working budget session would be it was a great idea. I just feel like we probably

092should have done a better job at scheduling and >> it maybe you know what I mean you know just looking forward >> I think for us I realize the community may or may not have they may or may not have interest in it but um >> maybe you're saying a time on the whole board to be here >> it's probably better if we think about this outside of >> the monthly budget meeting because that starts at four and I So I think in the case of Zony and Betty and probably some of the others that's probably too early for them. >> So it would be something we'd have to schedule like future >> that would be >> No, I was just going to say that like to your point schedule it further out that way

093everyone can put it on a calendar. It' be a separate time altogether. My suggestion would be to move forward with this July budget committee meeting with this information and then maybe schedule a working session after we have recaped that meeting or maybe even after the August budget committee meeting. Let the budget committee do a couple months of work, then do a working session with the entire board. That way, we can all sit down and say, "Yes, >> we would like you to do this." No, that way everybody has an opportunity to have their input and then we can come up with >> rather than because we absolutely don't want to waste your time. >> No, exactly. And that was what I was thinking when I was like, I think all of these ideas are great.

094Let's get some data. But to your point, we should be able to provide at least a little more detailed direction as well. >> I know I don't want 20 kids in a classroom that Right. Right. Right. >> Um I I agree. I think these budget sessions have always been helpful for me. It's more helpful to be public because we can deliberate. We couldn't have done this if we held it as as a private as an executive session type meeting. um we need to be able to deliberate and so I'm I have honestly thought so many times about all the meetings I think we should have because you know to be able to really focus on certain certain things you know you know other districts have their have their agenda setting meetings and then they have

095their voting meeting and they have their committee meeting on a different night and then they've got their budget and their um personnel and their curriculum and they have all of these meetings and we have already created so many more meetings >> that it's been a lot of change for all of us very quickly at seeing the times but I think if there's any other meeting that we need to have it would be more working sessions for the budget because that's where we're going to be able to get a lot of this footwork done >> um and have those in-depth conversations And to Dr. Over's point, schedule them further out. >> Yeah. >> And be more prepared for them. Um, so I guess >> a lot better what we wanted our school district to. >> Yes.

096>> Correct. >> Right. So, those of you that are here, would you like for me to look at sending out some dates for another budget session soon so the board can the board as a whole can deliberate on what we want the district to look like so we can give our administrative team directives? >> I think Mrs. Farber suggested August, September. >> Yeah. >> Then that gives us an opportunity to recap 26 27 budget and then we can move our focus to 2728. So like August, September, July seven will be our next budget committee. So we will have a chance to talk about 2028 budget. I do agree with Mon'nique that maybe if others had input into what their hard nos are. >> Yeah. >> That would help us in the budget committee know where

097to focus, >> right? >> Yes. >> I think so too. >> And maybe we maybe you like survey them all instead of a meeting and say these are the options we talked about. What is like a hard note for you that we will not explore? >> That survey is actually a great great idea. something we did with well we did it often right when they try to pull in people from different areas. Um that would be good. >> Yeah. >> I think that I mean that's the other that's the other thing where my heart is is surveys. >> We we need to make educated decisions on the guffy data and we >> it's not that it's not out there. It's just limited and a lot of it is statewide. It's not it's not even specific

098to McGuffy. I mean, >> classrooms and and student count and all of those things are are there, but >> you know, I want to hear from our teachers. I want to hear from our families. I can only do so much as myself, but the district has an opportunity to send out surveys to say >> what do you what are your thoughts on XYZ whatever it is just like we did with AI >> correct >> yes >> right exactly and I McGuffy average, not state average. Yes. Um, so we're looking at August, September for a next budget session. >> I will um I'll send out an email early. >> Yes. >> But that would be fun. >> I'm thinking like a week after >> Well, >> the week before school starts. >> Before school. >> Yeah,

099I know. I know that's, you know, that's that's prom time for me. >> Um, nothing say that that that should preclude us from having >> um it does work out well because we do have that August meeting early to make those final hires if we have hires. So >> that's meeting August. >> Yeah, >> August 4th will be our budget committee meeting. >> August And you said August 4th was the budget >> budget committee. It's August 4th and then um August >> board meeting. Okay. >> Well, I will take a look at the calendar and >> No, no, no. I'm I'm saying, you know, maybe the looking towards the end of August if that would be okay, you know, uh because once >> that So, being here the last week of fall married. >> We

100I mean that's so you know just playing it backwards you know the um the week before school starts of course that's inservice and then before that we have new teacher induction for three days we have >> department grade level chair the same week for a day like it's a pretty full two weeks leading up to it. >> Um but like you know our board meeting is going to be the 18th of this month and that day is my last day for my retreat for advent. So, I mean, I'll make the time, don't get me wrong. Just Just trying to think. >> Mhm. >> This is the board meeting in September. >> 17 typically means we'd have executive September 10th and then board meeting the 17th. the week before that Tuesday is >> September 1st will

101be booked. >> Okay. >> So, could we do it then and maybe push the time? Yeah. >> On that budget committee and push the time to like 5:30 to then >> hold it on on September 1st. You're saying just after the budget >> because then you wouldn't necessarily I guess you wouldn't have to change your advertisement too much. >> Mhm. >> Oh, do like what we did now. Yeah. And just move it up. >> You said September 1st. >> 91. And then do we want to do You said you won't be here. >> Oh. Oh. Oh, I see. Okay. Keep us posted. >> Would we say five? Would you think five o'clock at the minimum to start then? >> Yeah. >> Okay. We can just Let me look at my calendar just to be sure.

102I don't see that being a problem since that's when we already have >> Yeah. September 1. Yeah, I don't have anything else scheduled that day. So, >> what's that >> about the uh the question about >> western area? >> Yes. Yes, I was going to mention that up. >> Yeah. So, there is >> talked about that >> you have to pay, right? >> Yes. We're paying for the routes, >> right? >> Um and they're guaranteed so many routes. >> The flip side of that is if we didn't send them, they're going to have to come here and we're going to have to pay teacher coverage sit in a classroom with them and that >> I mean currently they sit in the auditorium. Correct. >> Um it's it's available. Yes. Yeah. >> And that's not an

103advantage place to put all either. >> Right. So what explain explain the routes to me because you mentioned that we pay for the routes regardless. I don't understand how that works with the transportation >> so many runs and if they don't have that many runs we're paying for them anyway. >> Yeah or whatever it >> Well even for the regular year >> we are saying >> now I and Dr. Evers have had this conversation with Mr. bonus about the benefits of sending them even if it is for 20 minutes and Mr. Bonus felt like because they need so many minutes and hours for their programs um that 20 minutes is beneficial to them. Now if they're doing remote work here >> that counts. >> That's right. So that that was what when I when when

104I was posed with the question that's what I started looking into was could they even do that and the answer was yes their their remote work counts towards their instructional time. So it's it's not hurting the student any in that respect to do their work remotely. >> The part that it hurts is that in-person connection. >> Yeah. um which I think the board would have to decide if I mean if if we're paying for it anyways it's almost a moot point but >> if it's at any point because we could always >> well and maybe I'm wrong could the contract at some point be renegotiated to include when there's two-hour delays or whatever I I don't know I don't I would imagine that could be something that could be Right. So that's something that we

105could look into moving forward as well. >> Could be. Sure. >> I'm looking at the other. >> Okay. >> We got to pay that driver. >> Yes. >> You know, and that's the same thing like I'm trying to think back like during the co time. I think you still got your state reimbursement for the busing for the transportation even though there was no school >> because you had contract, >> you know, through the contract. Okay. >> The school bus contractor had to be paid and the drivers had to be paid even though they weren't working. It wasn't they weren't working. >> Right. Right. >> So that was >> I'm pretty sure that that's how that was. >> Okay. I would like to know if all of our programs are in at WCC actually offer remote.

106>> Yes. >> Yeah. Because I don't know how cosmetology would do. >> Well, I think I'll think of a bunch of careers what they're doing. >> Yeah. Autoch, right? >> That'd be a conversation if you want me so I can have with Mike. I think like we we as we presented before I don't think there's enough cost savings there to kind of spend our time going down that road again >> if we don't have to like I just because there's going to be costs for us even if we decide we want to hold them here not as we just said >> there's there's still building costs are there we then have the students that are here how beneficial is that time when you're in the auditorium learning I just >> right no I I I

107totally understand Um, and that's that's, you know, that's why I'm glad you brought it up because that was going to be something I asked next before we left was at least let's touch on this a little bit and see what what all is going on with it. Um, because I mean that's what we're here to do. That's really whatundome dollars a box and we do have three and of course that'll be reevaluated over the summer for next year's population depending on how many students are going after. >> Yeah. That's perfect. >> Yeah. >> So, I I can answer whether or not they offer remote work and on two-hour delays, >> they do offer remote work. It's posted that day and the student is um expected to have the work completed that day. So, it's not

108like with us where you Right. Right. So, um, but that's if they have a two-hour delay also. So, it's not, you know what I mean? It's not, >> if we call a two-hour delay and they don't, I don't know what that looks like. Um, >> but well, they would still post remote work. Yeah. Right. Regardless, they're being held here at the building. So, right. Um I know that kind of tied me my my questions about that tied me into the list from Mr. McKe, the the project list with the the library innovation. That was something that the community has posed. If depending on what happened with Western Area's conversation instead of placing them in the auditorium, they could you that library with whatever is determined what we do with that. Yes. Would be that could

109be used for when that obviously for other reasons too, but that would be an option. Um, and of course, you know, all the empty classrooms that we have that could be utilized, but that that would require more than >> one teacher in the room. >> Yeah. something like that. >> Would would they fit though in the library even if we renovated it to >> you want one teacher? >> It's not it's not possible. >> Well, but when you think about it, their work is remote. The teacher has already posted. It would just be somebody sitting there to ensure everybody is being observed. Is that is are there more than one staff member in the auditorium when they're sitting there? Do we know? >> I don't know. >> Yeah. >> I know. I pay a lot

110of coverages. So, probably. >> Yeah. >> Well, and that that would be my next question was, you know, how are they monitored when they're here on those days? Is it more than one staff member? When are we going to talk about the funding for the bond? Like what projects are going to be >> like when is that going to be discussed? And >> we have a little bit of time because I'm meeting with them June 8th and they're starting all of the paperwork, but that paperwork's going to take this week. So we we have a little bit of time to talk about I mean we definitely need the paper done, right? So there's some things we definitely need to get done. >> But the conversation then is if Walker consolidation was on the table. Do

111we can do what now? Right. So, >> right. >> Yeah. >> And then but they said that we had we had enough time that like if we like we have time >> we have time. >> Yeah. You have to start paying on it if you start. >> Is that going to be a special meeting in and of itself or >> the only thing that you will probably have to do because you've already approved the bond itself is you will be approving the cost associated with each project. So Craig will get all of the costs associated with everything that he wants to do. he will present it probably at a committee meeting and then you would vote on it. >> We talked about that that high school middle school library renovation is what's kind of a

112hot button. And so when during our tour we kind of talked about it and he said if you don't go for the chill space and you don't go for moving the guidance counselors we could take some of that money and put it in different areas like the locker room shower replacement in the middle school boys and high school boys locker rooms. >> You know the auditorium stage is a little that's a bigger chunk of money but Right. Yeah. >> It could be a part of it too. My Sorry, that's all off. That's where my head was going. As long as we can still have those conversations. >> Need to have those conversations to get input from the board on how you see that space. >> We've had conversations internally. It's been a while ago, but

113we come in and look at that space. >> My ask would be, especially with these projects, I don't want this on the committee of the same night we're voting on it. This needs more time always in my opinion. I think we need at least a month. You present it at a committee. Give us 30 days to look at it so that we can really dive into it. We can take into consideration community feedback. Sometimes we don't get community feedback until days later after they've watched the meeting on replay and there's questions sometimes. Sometimes there's just why are you doing this? Sometimes there's just, hey, I don't think it's a good idea, what have you. I've always asked for more time for the board to be able to really look at things, look at information, and

114and take it in. I don't think it's beneficial to the district to here's what we want to do. You got to vote on it tonight. It's tough. It's tough to make because it it feels like our hands are strapped. It It does. And maybe that's not the I know that's not the intention. Not maybe. I know it's not the intention, but that's how the community perceives it. And sometimes it feels that way because then it's, well, we have to do this now because we have everything else next month or everything else coming down the pike. And I understand that sometimes that's just the nature of the beast. I do. But with something like this, when we have such hot topic items, we need more time to be able to really dive into it and have

115those conversations. And sometimes it might even be more than 30 days at least. Um, that would be my ask for this specifically is to have it in more advanced time when something's coming up to be voted on, especially off of this project. But for any big project, I would like to ask that if it's going to be presented, it's presented the month before we're expected to vote on it. What I think maybe we should do is in a committee when we're not voting on anything specific once Mr. McD has all of his pricing for things talk about the different projects the cost for all of those and that's where you can have that conversation in the community to say move forward with these projects and let's hold off for right now on these other ones.

116So to have like a separate meeting because that that was another idea I had. But >> a separate meeting before a committee. >> Yeah. Say I I think we can accomplish what you're asking. >> Yeah. >> Is if we're in committee time, let's say first item that we come to in say November is painting of the high school. Allow for Craig to come with what he is, you know, presenting for the the paving project at least a month out. And then again, you can tell us even do you need more than another month to consider that to two months? But that way at least we know at minimum you're asking for a month of presentation consideration and then have it at minimum on the next month. Is that what you're >> asking? That's exactly what

117I'm asking for at least at a minimum. >> Yeah, because that's that's what we've tried to do even recently like you know. So yeah, it makes sense. Yeah. >> So we still have to So we voted for the bond to but then we still have to vote on each each projected >> bring the contract. go bring the contract for the paving and then >> yeah, >> right? >> I assumed it would be the contract. >> You know, in this situation, so he gets three bids like >> Oh, yes. There are laws that >> Okay. any of us have been a part of it. No, we haven't had any purchases that needed. >> Yeah, it was just I mean we we had the last big project of course we had was of course the the roofing

118you know here Joe Walker and that was a size that's where the last one >> 2021 that was the last time we had something of that scope. Do are you asking if that's how it should be or could be or would be if it's like >> but >> well I mean even even with smaller bids I guess is what I'm asking because I guess I was thinking you were asking about bids in general. You're just talking specifically about these bigger Okay. I wanted to make sure I understood completely. Okay. Should it be that way with small and big where we see all three or is it just for bigger projects? I guess >> I don't know why you would want to if we're taking the lowest bid, >> you know. >> If we're taking the

119higher of the three, it might be something you want to see, but not the >> Yeah. If you're taking the higher, then there would have to be justification. >> Exactly. >> Okay. >> Right. better quality. >> Right. Right. Okay. Okay. >> I know that I know that they put inceptation, >> right? And then on top of that there's other things that are there's ones that are like if for example we did lighting there was and we wanted to say well there's extra lighting as well but we don't know if we want to do that regular lighting >> but not that but will be more expensive right >> but the company this one so you might have to take one company that's more expensive >> right right Yeah. >> No, that's a good point. That's a

120good point. Um, okay. Any any other questions or conversation? >> Okay. >> So, we will do another one of these on September 1st at 5:00 pm. >> Um, we can talk to Liz about if advertisements needed for the time change. Yeah, definitely going to be and then we may have to advertise it. I'll I'll double check. >> I double check with her first because I I think there might be something where the time may not >> there's something already advertised at 4. So I >> Yeah, check with her about whether or not it needs it. Um and then I think I don't think I had any other questions. We pretty much >> covered a lot. >> We covered a lot. I really appreciate this. Thank you very much. and I look forward to the next