McGuffey School Board Special Meeting May 13, 2025

001back and forth. [Music] Give me a second. I moved that. I'm trying to move it back. Sorry. [Music] What was this for? That was for the cheerleading. Oh, coach. Yeah. That's okay. I couldn't remember what I obsained on. Thank you for leaving me room for my Z and my J. I get these little things and there's like this much room. I hate the ones like they're digital and you have like this little box. Like I'm never getting a Z in a day in there. That's straight out of [Music] It is now 5:32 and I'm going to call the special budget meeting to order. Um, roll call, please. Miss Fry here. Mr. G here. Jackson present. Mr. Here public participation not normally for a special meeting. Yep. Um, at this moment we will have uh where'

002it go? Public comment on the agenda items. Chief item item item. Yes, sir. Mr. President, we call Vicky Jordan, Buffalo Township. Thank you, Chief. You give me one minute. Absolutely. [Music] Seriously, I'm really gonna be quick. Pick Jordan in Buffalo Township. I would like to ask to reserve my time till after. And the reason I'm asking this is because I have no idea what you're going to discuss tonight. So to stand before you and have anything to say prior to knowing what's actually going to be talked about are the things that make me look like an idiot. And I prefer not to tonight. So can I please reserve my time till after? Um, unfortunately there's no public comment after the meeting, but we could agree to have a public comment after item D, could we

003not? We could. Our policy doesn't specify for special meetings. It just states that public comment is before and after. Just just for for clarity sake, the reason public comment is before is because under the sunshine law, members of the public have the right to have their their opinions heard before the board deliberates. The board intends to deliberate on the budget today. I would note that the board's not voting on his budget tonight. So, there is an opportunity for public comment again on Thursday about what the board discussed today, which is why we did not include a public comment after when we set up when I assisted Dr. Oberg and Miss Iver is setting up the agenda for what that's worth. But then after tomorrow, we're doing it all again. Yes, exactly. Miss Jingle, I think

004my other concern is we posted a public notice in the paper that the time would be 5:30 of the start of the meeting. However, if you look on our board docs, it says 6:00 and so some community me community members have shared the time um so they're assuming that it's 6 o'clock. So I'm a little concerned that if we don't allow for some public comment after the presentation that we've denied that access because it's 5:35. I I respect that. I believe though in the newspaper it did state 5:30. It did. Yes. Yes. But it says six o'clock in the board docks and a community member shared the board docked on Facebook and so some community members may be under the impression that the this meeting starts at six o'clock. Correct. Is what I'm trying to

005get at. They're all over Facebook. I don't know how anybody because I'm not even on it that much and I saw it. So, but regardless, in a day and a half, we're going to do it again anyhow. But, okay. I'd be I'd be willing to concede that if anybody does show up expecting it to start at 6 after we already did the public participation. If they show up at 6 or after because they thought it was six, I I would be okay with them speaking at that time. I appreciate that. Thank you. I think Um, but you would have an opportunity But you would have an opportunity Thursday before we vote to discuss it. In all fairness, I think if you're going to let one, you should let them all. What if no one shows

006up? Well, I'm just saying that if no one shows up, then the point's moot. Correct. But if someone shows up and we're offering them an opportunity, I think it would be only fair to offer somebody else an opportunity if they wanted to speak. No one else shows up, the point. That's fair, Miss Jackson. I I'm good with that. Thank you. Thank you. Yep. Chief, that's all. Mr. President, I'm sorry, Mr. President. So, Mr. Jordan and knowing that, does she want to take her time now or Well, I think her point is still the same, which is that she doesn't know enough. I believe that's what she was saying. Thank you. I don't have my thoughts together either. At this time, I'm going to turn it over to Mrs. Albertchalk for the budget discussion. Okay. Good

007evening everyone. For the board members, this is not going to be vastly different than what we discussed at our working session. It is cleaned up a little bit. Um, I'll go through it. I'll give you some references and try to point out anything that is new or different from the last time that we met. The first thing you're going to see is our overview of budget expenditures by object. I was able since our last meeting to get the expenditures down a few hundred,000. This is mainly due to retirements and resignations of higher stepped employees who we plan to rehire for, but they will come in at a lower step. I mean, that's an assumption, but in most cases, we're not going to hire somebody at step 18 right off the bat. You also have in

008the documents I provided to you a breakdown of these expenditures and you'll also see one for revenues. This is the specific data that I have to submit to the state. And on Thursday, you're going to see this in a a little more detail in a bigger report that's going to have a little more information on it. But for tonight's presentation, you can see the breakdown by each category um and by each expenditure. Can I interrupt? I'm sorry. There is no way for us to see that board and you all have turnout and we don't. Is there any way that can be? I apologize for interrupting. I was trying to keep it close to me so I didn't have to walk back and forth. That's all right. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that's good. That's good. Can you

009see it? Okay. So, we're looking at uh $37 million in expenditures for 2526. So, what's driving our costs? We do have increased salaries yeartoear. That's basically your contractual obligation. We're in contracts with all of our most of our employees. Our salaries make up almost 40% of our expenditures. We were able to keep that salary bump this year a little bit lower than what what it has been in past years. And again, that's because we offered that early retirement and we've had some resignations and those rehired employees will come in at a little lower cost. Increased benefits costs. Our benefits make up about 26% of our budget. Our healthc care increased again this year 5.7%. That 3.7 million that you see there is what our anticipated expenditure will be for medical, dental, vision for all of

010our employees that qualify for healthcare benefits. Piecers the retirement system it increased.1% up to 34%. So 34% of all of the salaries we have to send to piecers as a retirement contribution. So that's almost $5 million. Now tuition to cyber charter and other schools such as our outplacements um transformation learning for one in 2324 we just spent a little under 1.1 million for 2425 we are almost at $2 million already so that has definitely increased there's a lot of talk on the hill about cyber reform but has been for years it has been for years so we cannot move forward forward anticipating any changes. So, we have to just keep um going with what we know right now. And right now, we know that that expense has really increased over the last two years. And

011I anticipate it to be relatively the same for 2526. And then our contracted special services, they've tripled since 1718. This is IU. Um, IU provides special services to students that we cannot support in-house because we don't have the staffing to do it. You'll notice that this year's costs are a little bit less than what we've paid in the past two years, but that is really only because IU did not have staffing to provide to us. So, we had to go to other sources and other vendors to provide those same services. And then that would be part of the other schools. Correct. Correct. Yes. Thank you. I also wanted to take a moment to just remind everybody what the administration and the district has done over the years to try to help reduce costs. Starting with

0122018-19, there was a number of reductions in staff. that estimated savings was about 1.1 million. But also that year we had a coal reassessment which cost the district $683,000 in revenue. So those savings were really mitigated by that coal reassessment and loss of that revenue. And or 1920, yes, we had estimated savings about 104. And I'm not going to read all of these to you, but you can see them there. And we will continue that through 212223 and then on again to 232 24. For 2526 we did have the early retirement incentive. We had three employees take advantage of that. We are anticipating that to save us roughly $121,000. Again, because of the employees that will replace them will come in lower. Instead of contracting with BA, we have the intent to contract with the

013school nurse ourself. That would come in at a lower per hour rate. We anticipate that to save us almost $31,000 for the year because we made the internal move of taking a teacher from Clayville to move to Joe Walker for the necessity of splitting that fifth grade class. That has saved us nearly $95,000 because we did not add to our staff. And then the way we want to restructure some of the central office administration, that should save us about 16,000. SH before we move on I I I don't want to not highlight two things uh from the historical view from both a staffing cut perspective and also from a cost-saving measure that we undertake every year. So since 1819 yes and I have right here I'm sorry I said yes and I have the summary

014too right on your next page. Okay, I'm going to hold off and I'll give you the estimated cost savings, but I do want to mention this. Sure. With positions, um, we have cut 22 positions since 1819. And and I I I really want to emphasize that because in a moment, Charlene's also going to share with you where we are student wise from a student perspective, how many students less we have since that that that very time. And those are programs, those are services that we have cut and which she'll share with you in a minute. I'm sorry. Sorry, I forgot. No, you're fine. Because I was doing this all last few days. I just kept looking at this and just trying to think about how I wanted to share that. Understand that we have made

015deep cuts over the years. Uh and not just cuts to staffing, but also uh we've undertaken costsaving measures that sometimes are hard to kind of quantify. Like a couple years ago, we have a whole new copying structure uh through all of our buildings and we have a new copying contract that saved x amount of dollars a year. Uh we went out something as small but as important as looking at uh our cell plan service and how we were able to cut costs there. So I just want that to be understood that we're talking about 22 positions and I'm sure you'll talk about and we've not hired those 22 positions. We've not filled those 22 positions again. uh they've either been furlowed, absorption or retirement or yeah those kind of things. So on this slide you

016see the summary of those savings from 2018-19 to 2324. Um what I will say is there were a few years where we had those coal reassessments which cost the district that revenue which is $1.2 million in revenue because of the coal reassessments. So, our $2.5 million in savings over those years really ended up being a $1.3 million savings because we lost revenue along the way. That revenue loss is going to continue. We have already been notified that console is appealing uh 27 million dollars worth of assessed property value, which is going to cost the district about $380,000 in revenue. our solicitor is trying to work out some type of um a partnership with them where uh like similar to what Tunnel Ridge did for us so that we would not take all of that hit.

017Um but they don't really have to do that. They do not really have to do that. No. No. Assessed property value because the the coal is depleted. So once the coal is depleted, they are not obligated. There's no assessed property value at that point. So that would come off of our tax rule. That would cost the district $380,000 and that would be for the 2627 year. I also wanted to give you an example of a building budget. This is the high school budgets since 201920. You can see basically just the building um supplies mostly. This does not include salaries and benefits and those big expenses. But the um building principles really look at their budgets from year to year. You can see in 1920 this was a 300 thou $313,000 budget to help support all

018of the programs that they have at the high school. Over the years that has been dwindling. 2526 it's 210,000. That is a little bit higher from last year just because costs of every of everything are up this year. Here's our student enrollment counts since 1718 to this year 2425. We have literally lost 54 students. 54 students. When you heard Dr. Oberg say we have lost 22 staffing positions, that averages basically four students per grade. So, we're not losing a lot of students. Um, therefore, there's really not a lot of staffing that we can afford to lose. Do the 54 students that count? What's encompassing the 54 students? Is that kids in cyber? Is that kids that have graduated, kids moved out of the district? So these are our enrollment numbers from year to year. So

019we have to report every student that is enrolled at McGuffy and that does include cyber. Yes. So our enrollment includes the kids that are going that we're paying cyber for. Yes. Okay. They're enrolled in McGuffy. No, they're No, no, no, no. They live in Florida. But for enrollment specifically, yes, because they're not enrolled to attend school. That's why I want But they're McGuffy residents, so we're on the hook for paying the cyber class. Correct. Cyber. We do. I don't have it right off the top of my head. Do you have it off the top of your head? I can find it. It's I think it's less than a hundred. Yeah. Yeah. [Music] This next slide is going to show you the revenue by function, which means where where that revenue is coming from. Um, I

020was able to increase this slightly as well. I really took a look at our delinquent taxes over the past few years. Um it's, you know, you never know who's going to pay you for their delinquent taxes, but we've been pretty fortunate that we have been getting 450 to 650,000 a year in delinquent tax revenue. I don't see that changing significantly. Uh so I was able to increase that a little bit. What is relevant on this particular slide, you will see three different columns. The first column is our current real estate millage rate at 13.93. The very first row taxes levied and assessed. That is the tax revenue we're getting from those uh homeowners, property owners at the 13.93 milit rate. Everything under that from 6,400 and down is going to remain the same. The only

021number that changes in all three columns is that first row of taxes levied. The middle column is if we would increase our millage rate to 14.43 and the last column is going up to the index what the state allows us to increase it to which is 14.62. Between the two, obviously the lowest to the highest, you're going from 34.8 8 million in revenue to 35.5 million. So this is what that ends up looking like. Our expenditures 37 million. If we remain the same at the 13.93 millage rate, we're looking at a deficit of 2.2 million. If we go up to 14.3, then we're looking at 1.75 million. and we are still looking at a deficit of 1.5 million even if we raise the taxes to the maximum. I also just wanted to take a moment

022to remind everybody of our historic miller mil miller's rates and revenue and our historic assessed values. In 1718, our property our assessed value was over a billion dollars. It is now 940 million which is 10 million less than last year and it is going to decrease again next year. We already know this. The very last column on this slide shows the amount of revenue that the school district did not receive because we either didn't go up to the full index or we just did not increase taxes over those years. I sometimes get questioned what other school districts what their millage rates are. So I decided to add this slide. This is the 2425 millig rate of all of the Washington County schools. We are one of the lower ones. Um can I ask a question

023about that last slide? That last revenue loss that's the one that's the two million. That is where we didn't Yes. because we didn't increase the full index or we just didn't increase at all. That's the amount of revenue that we've lost over we could have received. Yeah. That's correct. Thank you. I also wanted to show you the median property values of those neighboring districts. I'm not very concerned about what other districts charge the their residents or what their assessed medium value properties are. I'm concerned about what McGuffy does and keeping us financially stable. But I wanted to give you that information. Some news since our last meeting. We did finally get from the state our homestead farmstead tax amount, property tax relief amount, which is a little over $1.4 million. We also have 2,978 approved

024properties for 2025. And you will see under that where I have 2793 qualifying properties. There is a difference between being approved and actually qualifying for the discount. You can be approved, but if your property is assessed below a certain value, you will not see any property tax relief because your tax bill is so low anyway. So for our district, that cutoff point is around $35,000. So, if your property is assessed at 35,000 or less, even if you qualify and were approved, I should say approved, you won't qualify for the discount because you're already so low. So, we have qualifying homeowners, property owners that will see increased property tax relief this year. Last year, it was about $32 less. I think it was 458 or so. Now it's going to be 490. I also wanted to

025take a minute to show you our partial counts because I know that has been a question as well. So on this slide you see McGuffy broken down by township and you will notice the types of properties listed across the top whether it's zoned agricultural. The mine active and the mine reserves are the ones we need to pay attention to. Mine active means they are actively being mined right now. Eventually that will be depleted and those properties then move to a depleted status and we will not see revenue from those mine reserves are right now the coal companies own them but they are not mining them. So we are still seeing revenue off of those right now. Are those some of the ones that they are ch or that? No. Okay. There's another category that says

026mine um outsourced. I didn't bother to put it on here because yeah, the mine reserves is they own the property and I think their intent is to mine it, but right now they're not. The exemption utilities, we do not see any tax revenue from those. So, at the bottom, you'll see our total taxable properties are 7,645 and our total non-taxable properties 464. This year our median actually increased to 154,150. Now just remember the median is the very middle number. So you have half of our property owners have an assessed property value higher than that and half have an assessed property value lower than that. So this is really the the midpoint of our assessed values. I gave you the example. If you have our median 154150 at our current 13.93 millillage rate, that tax payer

027is going to be liable for $2,147.31 before they qualify for the property tax relief. If they qualify for the property tax relief, that's going to take off $490. So that brings their tax liability down to 1,656. $32 less than last year because our values of property tax relief this year increased. You can see the example there with the 14.43. That homeowner, property owner would actually pay $45 more than last year, which averages out to $3.75 a month. And then going to the maximum that we can, the 14.62, 62 index, their tax liability is going to be $74 more than last year, which averages out to $6.16 a month. So, our general fund as it currently stands, we have a fund balance of about 52 5.2 million. However, we have set aside 2.6 6 million of

028that for retirement and healthcare. We can't use that to bridge that gap between our expenditures and our revenues. The only thing we can use is our unassigned value. We are anticipating 2.1 million in unassigned value. Is that without what we're going to have to use to balance this year's budget? This is with what I am anticipating using for this year's budget. The administrative recommendation is going to be to increase to the index. Even when we go to the index at 14.62, we're still looking at 1.5 million. If this plays out, our 2.1 that we have unassigned, our savings, so to speak, would then be down to about $600,000. I was just going to say, just to be clear, if you go back to that unassigned one before, so our unassigned is 2.1, right? So if

029we don't do anything, we don't have enough to cover the two correct deficit. If we raise uh half percentage, right? Yes. Um then we have enough to cover but barely. Right. 1.7. Um and if we go to the index we're a little better off. Yes. 1.5. Correct. But we're still I mean that's really close. Really close. Yeah. I will say that our costs are not going to decrease from year to year unless we start making some hard decisions. Um, nobody wants to see larger class size and staff reductions and buildings closing. We have been through that many times. But if we don't start passing some of this on to our community members by way of increased real estate taxes, I live in the community. I don't want to pay higher taxes either. But if we

030want to continue to support our students with the programs that we currently have and not get rid of any of those programs that are very hands-on exper uh educationally uh beneficial for our students, we have to start looking to our community members to support those programs. All right. So some of the other things there are a few things that we can do to increase revenue. It's not going to be much. Before you get to this to be clear these next two are we're looking at these for not this budget correct. Yeah. Yes. We can we so so Yeah, and the future considerations would be more like down the road. Yeah, we'll start in July. Yes. I just wanted to be clear. Thank you. Yeah. So, these ones that are these three play to pay uh

031parking and admissions for sporting events. Those are adjustable for this budget. We could. Yes. We h I have not built any of this into the budget, but this is something that we could look at. Since t Thursday, we're only going to be um you're going to be approving a preliminary budget. The final budget will be approved in June. So, we still have time between May and June to make adjustments if need be. Well, with that said, then the people that want to contribute it, they should let us know what they think in the community by by Thursday or by next Thursday or by No, I guess by we would need to have the input in order to make changes by for the Yeah. for the June meeting. Okay. I'm sorry. No, no, no. Yeah. Yeah.

032So, we we threw around um some options in order to increase revenue. We are very limited on how we can bring in revenue. We get it from the state and as you all know the state budget isn't done yet and we're still working with preliminary amounts from the state. We get it from our taxpayers. Um and then we can get some small resid residual income from sponsorships or donations that come in, but we're very limited. So, one option that some schools have done is the paytoplay. We have about 517 students between middle school and high school that play one or more sports. If we charged $100 for each sport they played, we may get about 51,000 in revenue. I I would like to add something to that. I know that seems like a lot of

033money, but a lot of parents are paying that and more for their kids to be on travel teams. Yeah. So, it's not like we're asking for the moon there. No, but I I do have a question like if you have a family that qualifies for like free and reduced, is there a way to factor that into that or go down? I guess what I'm asking is for more information to see if it is a road we want to go down. Like I I and I understand Mrs. Single, I certainly have paid more than that for my son to participate in soccer different soccer programs. Um, so I I know that that's true, but for families that truly can't afford that for whatever reason they had alone with, you know, five or six kids, you know,

034who were participating, that kind of thing, or just the lack, you know, of of income in general, how I would hate to see a kid not be able to play because the family can't afford it. Well, schools that I've worked with have scholarship funds. People donate or the boosters picked up. Those are all options. I mean, those are all options that people could choose. Mr. Laser, don't we currently have everybody receiving a free lunch at McGuffia? We do. Free and reduced. Is everybody? Yes, they still are. Um, we still have to report who's eligible for free and reduced even though all of our students are receiving free lunches. that my specification was eligibility if they're eligible for um and per sport. So if your child plays multip multiple sports yeah I these are options and

035and they're open to discussion. When I think of it though, because I have two students that are athletes, when you hit the high school, you're paying as it is because like I have a varsity cheerleader, so we're fundraising because we've got camp, we've got uniforms. So then my concern is just and a lot of travel as well, an additional cost to that family, you know, that that's just my concern there. Well, then maybe that's not a choice that everybody that the community wants. These are just options. Thank you. I will say too, our student activities budget, which includes all of our sports, bands, color guard, it's over a million dollars. So the us we are paying to support those programs. We we talked about parking permits. I know a neighboring school district does charge their

036students for a parking permit and they do it by the fall semester and the spring semester. So they're doing it twice. That is an option. Um, and then admission to sporting events where everybody pays because currently our students do not pay. Correct. And there's some sports that we don't charge admission to at all. So that's an option too to charge admission to all of our sporting events. That's awesome. The parking thing might be something to think about because if you're driving anyway, you have to have money for gas, you have to have money for tires. So that's not so much, right? And that could maybe make a difference. I sure these are just things to look at. Things to look at. Um future considerations. Like I said, our expenses are not going to decrease. We

037are contractually obligated to increase salaries, which causes an increase in benefits. That's not going down. We have to start thinking how are we getting through one year to the next and start thinking what are we doing long term to keep us financially stable. These are some things that we need to really start to look at and to have conversations about. Consolidation that has been talked about many many times. Educational program reductions. What is it that the students are required to have to get their diploma versus what do we offer on top of in-house versus outsourcing? So, bringing in some like the nursing thing trying to get less expensive options inhouse rather than paying third-party vendors out of house. Now, some of these options are going to have upfront costs and you won't see a savings

038immediately, but then you may in the long run. And these are all just options that we need to really start exploring. And then of course, we always talk about staff reductions. I just want to clarify these are not going to be anything for this year. None of these. Right. Okay. Right. Thank you, Mrs. Harbach. Yeah. So, I'm going to at this time um let's do public comment. I think Ken had a question. Oh, can we debate afterward? Well, let the public talk and then we'll debate everything if that's question. Oh, yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. Certainly, back to the uh partial count. We have 464 non-t taxable. I would assume those are churches and things like that or so you see the exempt column. Those are properties that are exempt from paying taxes. There's a

039number of reasons why your property could be exempt. Um 100% disabled veterans can apply for an exemption status. So we have a number of properties that fall under that. Thank you. Can I ask a question about the delinquent taxes under revenue? Yes. So, we've captured the 529,000. What is kind of out there? What What's out there? Yeah. Well, we had about 1.1 million the last time that we checked it when we had a conversation about delinquent taxes and bringing in a company to help us. We've collected almost 600,000 this year on that. Your delinquent tax numbers are always going to fluctuate and change depending on when they paid their taxes or who didn't pay their taxes. And it's more than just real estate delinquent in there. There's also the earned income tax delinquents in there

040as well. I just remember we we talked about the tax lane sale in the I guess it was a winner and then we said we would kind of revisit it if necessary. I my personal opinion is we're getting the money and we're not having a problem with people not ending up paying it and then if it goes to share of sale we then get that um real that tax money off of them selling it. or the sheriff. So I don't think we need to invest in an outside corporation or company to do that for because I haven't had any issues with collecting that delinquent. It's just kind of more receive money up front rather than because like the sheriff sale they have to go through issues. Is it two years? It takes a little bit

041of time for us to refund those money. So if it's something that we could accessly available now, I would say if we get to the point where at the beginning of the year if we're struggling you to pay our salaries at at the beginning of the year then that is an option that we should really explore. We have we're not in that position right now. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Mr. Karen, before the community has I I'd like to ask just for clarification for everybody, including the community solicitor, when we're looking at the um fund balance on page, I don't even know. No, they don't. They're not page. They're not numbered. Could you explain from a legal perspective what it is that that it's expected for us to keep in the unassigned and at what

042point the state at what point the state would be eligible able to come in if need you're asking what would what and let let me reframe your question because I think what you're asking me Jackson is to explain what happens when there is no fund balance or it it when it reaches certain a certain level at what point like at what level does it become a risk a problem? So so obviously school districts are required under law to pass a balanced budget. If you can't if you can't balance your budget with just revenue and expenses, you have to dip into your fund balance. When you no longer have a fund balance to dip into, you become you become eligible to be taken over by the state. When the state puts you in receiverhip, one of

043the first things it does is it's it appoints a receiver. Your school board then loses every single ounce of local control it has. If you'd like an example, watch a Dukane City School District board meeting. Um, their board meets once a year for reorganization and that's it. The receiver makes every single decision on behalf of that district, including taxes, including tax increases, including negotiating collective bargaining agreements, including staffing. It takes away any kind of control that the board has at that point. The state steps in and takes that. Uh, currently, I believe there are 10 districts in the state of Pennsylvania that are under financial receiverhip. I I know Dukane Dukane City is one of them. uh the team city has been trying to come out of receiverhip and they just continue to stay in

044receiverhip. Obviously everyone here understands their their tax lows as they used to balance their budget on the steel mills and when the steel mills went away as did their revenue. So when that that unassigned gets lower than two because we've got 2,19 when when your unassigned can no longer cover whatever your deficit if we did nothing this year if we don't increase taxes this year our deficit is 2.2 we can't cover that with the unassigned the state could step in. Yes. or would step it or you couldn't cover let's say you can't cover your deficit with whatever fund balance you have and raising taxes to the maximum with exceptions you can't you become subject to receiverhip okay is receiverhip the same as the distress rules outlined in the TA code yes okay thank you thank

045you was that responsive to your question yes it was thank you very much for having a much more cohesive answer to my very jumbled question thank All right. At this time, I'm going to we are going to I apologize take public comment on the agenda items. Um just as a reminder, uh there's a 7 minute allowance for each individual. Chief Mr. President, call Vicky Jordan, Buffalo Township. Yes. Thank you, Chief. Nikki Jordan, Buffalo Township. Thank you to everyone who came in late so I could speak. Okay, just a couple things real quick. Is it possible for the printouts that you guys receive that are on this screen that there would be copies available for the public? cuz I know I'm visual and I would like to be able to scour through that like you all

046get to do. Is that possible Dr. Over? Okay. So, just a couple things and I will keep this very brief tonight because I don't have a lot to add to this other than clearly we're going to have to raise taxes and I don't I mean most of you know last year I advocated for the plan B which is the middle one. It's neither here nor there. We've got to do something this year. So, my only concern I have two and all the topics about cutting the budget. Um, I hear you talking about getting rid of a class in Clayville, which we all know how the rumor mill is. We know it's first grade and we know that that class is going to increase. So, I have two questions for that. Um, what are those class

047sizes for the fifth grade going to be in Joe Walker versus the class sizes for the McGuffy first grade, the Claysville first graders? And the only reason I asked that is because we have made such progress with um the the new reading program. And I know my grandson has been in it from the beginning from kindergarten now into first grade. and his class size is 15. They added a new student. Now it's 16. My grandson is reading on a level that I did not think was possible in public school for a first grade student. He even read some cursives the other night. So my point is I hate to see us increase the class sizes and undo what we're accomplishing because it is incredible to see what these kids are doing versus my older grandson

048before this program came into effect. So I hope that's part of the consideration. I I am why when we're doing all this shuffling of the balance of the budget, I never hear anything like, "Well, maybe if we take this much from sports and this much from band and this much from whatever extracurriculars you have that you could maybe everybody pays a little so that we are providing the education for these kids that they need." Because in my humble opinion, our student count and the education that our kids are getting is more valuable than that football experience. And I'm not saying cut sports or band or anything by any means because I understand how valuable that is too. But I never hear how do we take a little from each one of these groups that we

049can keep a teacher. So it's just some things I would like for you to think about because those issues are important to me. And like I said, I do not want to see us go backwards with our youngest students by making their class sizes bigger because what we're accomplishing with them is incredible. So thank you for your time. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Chief. Mr. President, that's all we have signed up. The irony. For those that came who came for those that came in late, do you want any time at the podium to discuss or make a comment on the budget? No. Okay. Thank you, Chief. your presence made it possible for her to speak. That's funny. [Music] All right. Now, uh we are in the discussion stage of I'll open it up to

050any board members that would like to start. I think I'd like to piggy back off of what Miss Jordan said about the elimination of the first grade classroom. I realize that some board members are going to tell me dayto-day versus governance. I completely understand it. But I want to say that we weren't given the opportunity to even discuss if we would like to hire a fifth grade teacher for Joe Walker. Maybe we felt that way. Um, I'm just disappointed because we also received a resounding response from some teachers and um, staff and community members that are against the first grade classroom elimination. I'm also personally against it. Um, I would rather see a fifth grade teacher get hired at Joe Walker. So, that's my two cents. Let me let me address that again. Those were

051recommendations made. those recommendations made for this budget and and as a board you have every right to determine whether or not you're going to follow that recommendation or or as I said and as we shared in our work session just two weeks ago that's a decision that you have to make you either can hire someone at that rate at starting salary rate or absorb a teacher from that's a decision that you can make that will have a direct impact on it budget nothing is set in stone until you determine the direction you want to go in so I just want to be clear on that I I will say to that I find it interesting that we have that conversation, right? And yet in our most recent working session, we had, you know, another board

052member who asked, "Do we really need to rehire two English teachers who are are retiring and a math teacher who resigned?" To me, that's kind of like speaking out of both sides of our mouth um from the board. You know, either we believe in reduced class sizes uh or we don't. Um, and actually it is much more challenging at the high school level um to do that than it is uh at the elementary. Not that I'm in favor of either. I'm just saying that I think if if we're going to, you know, be we want smaller class sizes at the elementary, then we need to be true to that across the board. I I agree with that but I was never the one that I didn't say you were that we need to do away

053because I think my concern is we have furled so many teachers in the past how many years and when you listen teachers speak what their needs are they say time I need time and if we keep reducing the amount of teachers that we have in our rooms in our buildings they're going to lose that time and so totally agree with I certainly don't want to see us have I just want to also add because I want to make sure that we're all clear on Um, I have never advocated for large class sizes. I've been making this argument now with this board for the last two years. The same argument that we're making now for keeping those class sizes. What I asked for last year and my recommendation last year was to increase the index and

054we did not. So now we find ourselves stuck with a position that after this year we're going to have very little left in our fund balance. But I think if I may just to finish because I I respect what you're saying, but this is something that I said a year ago we're going to find ourselves in and here we are looking at how do we make up this deficit. So I I I just want you to know that that that was the difficult decision that I had to present to you. I do not advocate for increasing class sizes. I think what we've done to safeguard first grade and kindergarten has had an impact, but we're at a point now where the deficit is making us make very, very difficult decisions. But it's unfair to say

055that we are in the position we are based solely on what we decided last year. Our decisions the past few years have been compounded. Whether you want to say it's been mismanagement of funds, um lack to access of some of the grants or funding, any of that co we have just been impacted all the way through from, you know, back to 2017, 2018, and now we're in that in this position. And, you know, I am I'm I'm one that's sitting here saying, I think we're going to have to raise taxes. I mean I I do I agree with that but you know last year I was not in that vote but it is like I said it's unfair to say that where we are today is solely based on what happened last year I don't

056respect respectfully I don't think that's what he said yeah that that's not what I'm saying I'm saying my position last year hasn't changed from last year this year like that because it's brought up that we weren't given an option what I'm saying to you is I have never stopped advocating for that but I recognize especially this year and then as we said one recommendations moving forward looking at the 26 27 school year. We are going to have some real tough decisions to make. And there was a position last year that we could have chosen that was made from a recommendation that we could have chosen to do away with and somehow we didn't. And I I'm sure most of you all know it was the school psychologist that we had a conversation about. It was

057a recommendation. you got somehow, you know, it's neither here nor there. We have that second school psychologist now, but there were some of us that were on the fence about it. And then there have also been some some of us, and I'm going to say it, you know, we talk about staff reduction, but we've only ever talked about teachers where why are we not re-evaluating some of our administrative positions? Correct. I think you do have to you have to balance. You can't just say it's all one-sided. You can't say we're going to lay off these teeth. you were going to have to look at administration to it has to be balanced. So to clarify the question that was asked in the budget session that was made or that we had it was an idea of

058collaboration between ideas being provided to us from administration what positions are possible to condense what positions are possible to look at not just teachers all across the board. So, it isn't speaking out of two sides of the mouth because it isn't just those teachers specifically. It was geared towards what do what can we work with? What do we have to work with? Until we had that budget session, the board was not a part of any conversation about let's look at this whole budget and see what we can do. There was no collaboration. But I I seem to remember um Sorry, Miss Jingle. Go ahead. I I can remember um Dr. Over giving us recommendations saying this is I'm asking that I'm recommending we do this and we recommending that we do that. Finally, that's Mrs.

059Harbor has done it. She sees every board meeting giving us an update. We've had opportunity to discuss that's collaboration that those are the times for us to speak up and this is the recommendation. That's what the administration and as far as as far as where we are currently, the recommendation that we have in front of us is one of three choices, right? With a caveat of this fifth grade or this uh first grade this position um Clayville Walker absorption of one teacher. I will be honest, I I I personally think that we're going to have to raise to the mill. we're gonna have to to raise the to the to the index. If we do that at that point, $94,891 is hardly worth quibbling about. Let's just hire the teacher. Um, in my my opinion,

060um, but beyond that, I mean, that's where we are. Those are the three recommendations we have before us. We're going to have to choose one of them with that little caveat of that particular position. I I think though as a board and this is just my my opinion, we have to trust that the people that are giving us this, they're making a recommendation. They actually made the same recommendation last year and we as a board chose not to follow it. So now we're here and and I I know it's not just one year, but it does have an a great magnitude because every step you take has brought you to the next position that you're in. What hurts us too is the devaluation of our properties and that causes us to start in the negative

061to begin with, right? And that's where we started this year. I because I am trying to be as financially conscientious as I can with our money. I could not say let's just hire another teacher knowing that we when I first started looking at were about $2 million in the deficit. And I knew that was going to wipe out our savings. Um, through all of the work that I have done and some of the retirements resignations, we've been able to whittle back down some, but those tax increases, even if we don't do the maximum every year, a little bit every year, could help bridge that gap so that we don't have to sit here and talk about reducing teachers and having more kids in a classroom and and downsizing. I want to just take the opportunity

062to say thank you to Mrs. Harper, Dr. Oberg. I will tell you in all of the years I've been on the board, in the years I sat out there, this is the most transparent we've ever had when it comes to budget. How the recommendations have been made, what's gone into them, all of the the the options, all the options. Yes. All of it. I mean, I I can't tell you the difference it is. you presenting every board meeting to let us know where we are, giving us the opportunity to collaborate, to have discussion. We've never had that before. So, I appreciate that. And I just want to say, Dr. Oberg, I know they're hard decisions and I know that you make them um not likely, you know, and I appreciate the transparency. Thank you, Mrs.

063Haruk. I would like to thank you personally for outstanding job you've been doing publicly. Um I think I've shared that with you privately but um you presented a budget that is very clear um very concise very uh understandable for the lay person and for everybody else. Um, so thank you. I have some other issues. Mhm. And I would ask you um your opinion. Um on page two, what's driving cost? We have an increase of you stated that it's probably $2 million now rather than 101.7 million. So that's an increase of $900,000 for one category. Yeah. Right. So if we eliminated that $900,000, our budget would be a whole lot better. Look different. I'm sorry. I Where are you getting? too. What's his driving thought? Driver. Oh. Oh, yes. Okay. I'm sorry. So, one of the

064reasons why I asked for an open meeting so that we could work and discuss through these things is we totally understand that our salaries, insurance, benefits, our fixed cost sure are 60 70% or whatever. So, we have a very small portion of the pie to be able to come up with $2 million. Correct. In saying that, um, I asked at the working session to you to list the areas where we spend and what we spend, and you did a very good job on this front page of the overview of the expenditures. So, what I would like to do is look at the areas like this $900,000 and ask the question, what can we do to reduce that number? That number used to be zero. Okay? And that has not been that awful long ago. I

065mean, I remember that, but I don't know the exact time frame, but I can tell you it was zero. So we went from zero to $2 million which would totally we would be in good financial shape. We would have no deficit. The deficit would be gone. But I understand the reason um the state demands us to pay those fees. And my biggest concern is that we find out why do we have so many students choosing that option rather than choosing coming to our school in person. Um I think that's something that we could look at as a board. Um, I think it's worth devoting time and resources to. I mean, we're talking $2 million. If we save 50% of that, that's $1 million. But can to your point and I'm that's a valid point but

066as a board member not even a year ago maybe over a year ago um this question came up before and we even said are there board members who would be willing to come in and make phone calls to these families. No one volunteered. Not one person. So, I think it's one thing to say, "Well, we should definitely look into that." And it's another thing for us to do it. The administration's tried. I know I personally have talked to several families. Their answers are all very different. But I'll tell you what the resound as to why. But the resounding answer as to as to whether we could get them back is not at all. I've talked to groups of them and you've talked to groups of them. I think that we have done that some. Thank

067you. We as a district administration has not addressed that issue. Um I remember when it was stated that maybe schoolboard members could call, but I'm sorry, back then it was 60 students. My personal opinion is that's not a school board director's job. That is an administrator's director's job. And until we find out why and what exactly why we're losing that $2 million, this is nothing new. We need I could you please let me finish. Thank you. We have to spend time and look at these areas that are like $2 million to try and recoup a large amount of this money. Um, Miss Harvard did an awesome job of presenting some other options for paytoplay and all that. And if you look at that, that adds up to roughly $64,000. Well, $64,000 is nothing compared to

0682 million. I mean, we have to prioritize. every financial organization that I've worked for, you always have to prioritize where you're going to try and save money. And you can save what I call and others lowhanging fruit, but we have some large hanging fruit that we need to dedicate some time to to come up with it. Um, and I understand we have MC cyber um and I understand we went and we renegotiated that contract and it came down which was awesome but until we know factually why we're losing $2 million. I have concerns in that area and I will clarify that that 1.7 million you see on that p is cyber charter charter and yes some of our outplacements currently have 66 students in cyber charter so only an increase of six yes an increase

069we we decreased we decreased the number of cyber charter students from the 2023 204 school year 204 20.5 we have less students however what has increased unknown cost the number of identified students correct they're attending and often times that's three times cost of record students so this year we do have less charge students attending than the year before but we do have more identified attend and to be clear this is nothing new since I've been on the board since 2019 and probably three years before that when I sat out there cyber school costs have been consistently between 1.5 1.7 million for us every here. This is nothing new and we've had this cause and every year I sit here and say the same thing. The biggest problem for this cost and not that I'm saying

070it's not of value to find out why. I will say that to put that fully on the administration I think is unfair to the administration in consideration of everything else they have to do. That aside, the biggest problem with the cyber SC with the cyber cost is the inadequacy of the system itself. You're talking cyber schools that don't have overhead like we have like brick and mortar buildings. And yet their tuition is double what a public school would be or in the case of special ed triple. That's why that's the problem. The root of this problem goes back to, and I say this every year, this goes back to our state leaders. Call your representatives. Go see your representatives. Email your representative. take the budget with you and say, "Look, my district is talking about

071laying off teachers, consolidating schools, whatever the case may be, two, three years down the road because of this cost." The cost is not true reflection of what it actually cost educual. I think that that is a big part of the problem. But I you've had How many people have attended since last year to discuss the bullying issue? And everybody that I have spoken to who has left the district for cyber has left because of a bullying issue. What is the answer to that? You don't know because we're told it's not a policy issue. We're told everybody's doing everything they're supposed to do. And I believe that those things are happening. What is the root of the cause? I don't think it's just I think it's for every person. I I will tell you exactly what

072Mr. Leer is suggesting is we start diving into this to figure out truly what we can and cannot do. I don't think that that's solely the responsibility of justice. The administration does a lot. But then when the board tries to come in and ask questions or do things, we're told it's dayto-day and we're not to touch it. It depends on what you're talking about. When you're talking about that coming in the office to do phone calls to interfere with getting kids back into the district is not considered not interfere. It was just a question. Why? Why was Why did you choose cyber school? What would encourage you to choose to put your child back at McGuffy? That was a simple question. I understand. So, I just I I think again it depends on who it

073is. I will tell you the families I've talked to, there's multiple reasons and some of them have nothing to do with the school itself. It's convenience for their family. It's what they feel is a program that better fits their child and their family situation. It's varied, you know, but the one resounding answer that I get from all of them is there isn't anything that would convince them to reenroll their child in McGuffy. Well, I think the other conversation that we had at the working budget session was that there are identified students in school we can't put services for so to be outsourced. Well, that's out that's separate from the cyber. Yeah, I understand that those are conversations. I mean, obviously we're dealing with the deficit, so how we make that look, right, or how we

074get them back in. I mean, obviously, we want all of our kids to be here with us in school, not cyber. And so, it's just a part of opening up to the community and finding out and being proactive on how can we how can we help you? How can we, you know, what just open the lines of communication with those students? And maybe at the end of the day, they're not going to get you back. That's then that's it is what it is. But it would definitely be helpful in my opinion to be able to reach out to those families um just to find out what it is that's that's causing them to prevent them from putting their kids in our schools. Yeah, thank you. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to almost cut you off.

075Um I agree with you, Mrs. Roarick, and I agree with you, Mr. Laser. Um I think moving forward we need to open that line of communication and find why I we all know COVID drove all of this. We know that. So then you know it's just human nature sometimes for parents it's easier to give in and say to your child or student you don't have to get up you don't have to get up to do your work online. You did it during co just doing it. So how do we get them? I think that is a legit reason. Now, to what Miss Jackson said, I don't think it's the board that should be making those phone calls. I think it should be administration. Um, now obviously if we have somebody in our region um and

076you know that person, absolutely just reach out to them and say, "Hey, you know, just wondering why, you know, what can we do to get your child back into the into the school?" I do think that needs to move forward because any anybody lowers that cost. Correct. I think that then we need to be understanding that if the administration is going to be taking time to do that, there's other things they're not going to get done. Right. And I I get that. But this stuff can be done. I Okay. I think there's a way to do it. Put it that way. And I'm not But I just don't think it's the board that makes those calls. I think it should be somebody. It seems to me that I'm hearing we want to make a directive

077to the administration to do that. So I think at the same time I don't think that that's where we are currently. I think that's consideration for in the future. Where we are currently is the recommendation that is in front of us. That is where we are right now. We're going to have to make a choice on one of those three. I think we need to keep that in mind. I'm not saying those aren't productive conversations to have after this budget, but I think we need to keep in mind where we are currently. Mrs. Jackson, I would respectfully disagree with some of what you said. But that's neither here nor there. when we have administrators that 66 phone calls in a period of time is not a very large task. Um, but it's also when you're

078looking at a cost of $2 million, how much time is it worth to invest to try and recoup that money? I would just say respectfully that comes from somebody who's never administrated. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Anybody I'm telling you talking about me. I'm saying anybody who makes that that statement 66 phone calls isn't that hard to do. You don't know how long those conversations are going to take and in the course of everything else they have to do. I'm just saying if we're going to make that a directive, we need to take consideration. There will be other things that don't be done. Mrs. Jackson, I did not state that it was a directive. It's a way to open communications to collectively work together to figure out how to solve a budget deficit. No,

079never wasn't in there. But I can tell you I was a production manager of a hazardous chemical company with five reports and 150 indirect reports and safety and quality was the number one issue. we supplied and was a tier one automotive industry provider. That required us to be ISO certified, ISO 9,0001, 9,0002, 9,0003, 9,000495. And it also required us before Q1 qualified, which meant that they implement statistical process controls in all of our processes to be able to figure out when there was a problem, when it went out of control, what we had to do to put it back in control. That information all had to be documented. It all had to go to voter company. I also in self-directed work teams. As a supervisor, I was entitled and required to take a group of

080individuals in what is called a brownfield site, not a green field site, a brownfield site, and implement selfdirected work teams. I never like to talk about what I've done really. But I think I need to now to explain what's going on. No, I'm to be clear. No, I'm not going to let you because you made it. I'm going to answer you. I I give you credit for anything you've ever done. I understand that your job was very detailed, but that job is not the same as the superintendent of a school district is all I'm saying. I didn't say I was a superintendent of a school district. I'm just trying to bring out ideas so the board can collectively work together to try and resolve this issue. So I have a suggestion maybe if we don't

081put it directly on the administration we seem to form committees really well like Dr. Oberg Dr. Gotchin we form you know the future ready comprehensive plan committee we form the act committee maybe Dr. Oberg and Dr. got gets together and they form some type of committee that might involve some teachers and some other people that are interested in maybe seeing what we can do to get these kids back because I'm willing to bet that's a good suggestion. I'm willing to bet that some of those teachers miss some of those kids and they want to get them back in. I think that's a great idea. So maybe that's a better collaborative effort and we're spreading the wealth rather than putting it on. But I also think moving forward that's not where we are currently. I and

082I do think this is a good time. We're winding up this school year so we can maybe try to hit them and get that communication out there for next school year to try to see if we can get some of them out. But that's still next budget's budget. The administration can come back and say how they want to do what they want to do. I'm just trying to make a suggestion that we look at a $2 million line item. But it doesn't even have to be about budget right now. We're just talking about kids and enrollment. It doesn't even have to be about how can we get you back in school for your money. It's just how can we get your kid back in school because we want them in our classroom. Why? A lot

083of teachers will tell has told me that when they go to MCber and they come back and they're in their classroom, they have to spend a large amount of time with those individual students to get them caught up where the other students are. So that's hurting our current students and it's just an issue that I don't care how we go about it. It's just something that we need to have opened dialogue to be able to talk about and discuss. I think there's been a lot of u great things brought up here but I think we have far removed ourselves from the budget at hand which was the purpose of our special meeting. If I if I understood that correctly, I had to rearrange my schedule too, you know. So the special meeting was about the

084budget, the current budget. Yes. And I will say proposal proposed budget on Thursday, we need to pass a preliminary budget so that we meet the guidelines of having that preliminary budget available to the community to review. And then at the June board meeting, which I believe is June 19th, we have to pass the final budget so that we get it to the state by the deadline. I have so I I think I disagree like I understand that it's about this current budget, but I think it's nice to sit here and have collaboration and communication and discussion and I don't feel that it was a waste of our time. No. And if it's worth being here, we're going to rearrange our schedule. I think I think it would have been a better use of our time

085after this budget, after we get this proposal done. But it's it's looking into the future because like like Charlene says, it's constant. It it's constantly moving. And so this year's budget hasn't even finished up and we're heading into next year's budget. We're already looking at the year after budget, which is why the original suggestion from the administration was to have this kind of a meeting in July. It should always be a conversation that we have and I appreciate the opportunity to sit and have the discussion. But one more question that I do have and I don't know if it's a question that I can ask because it has to do with buildings, but if we have properties that we own and it's an asset and we're looking at such a deficit and I'm kind of

086one who looks at lowhanging fruit like Mr. Leisure said, are those opportunities? I had asked for some things at the working budget session and it wasn't anything that we talked about today. Was there any I will tell you I had a conversation with Mr. McKe that Flame Buffalo building transformation Learning is leasing off of it. We get over $12,000 a month in rent from them plus they pay all of the utilities. They are paying the small amount of taxes on the building and they have increase their rent to cover the amount of money that we put into the new boiler system. So, they're event they're basically paying that. If we sell the property, it's a onetime revenue win, right? Um, but then we're going to have to pick up the bill for the remainder of

087the boiler because that was in their contract. How do you know how much or we can't talk about that? I I don't know the exact amount, but I can find that. So then my other thought is I remember on his capital budget presentation that there's some HVAC units that are going to need to be replaced and then he was talking about resurfacing some of the asphalt and that's also an older building too as is Joe Walker. Absolutely. So I was just kind of wondering like if that sale of that building would give us like half say half a million versus $144,000 it's giving us a year. It might pay for itself for the next few years. That was my only thought, but it seems like nobody else is on that same page. I I I

088agree that it's worth looking at. That's I think it's that's what we have to do. We have to look at every option avail excuse me available to try to see what can we come up with that's going to be a best long-term 10-year resolution because then we've got consolidation looking for future and that you know what I mean? Like if we have a building that we don't house our own students in that we could sell and get that money now would make a whole lot more sense than trying to consolidate a building that we're going to have a community firestorm over and you think cyber is expensive now you close to a walker and see how high that building I think um I do have other issues I'll just I'll be quick Mr. Sorry. I

089think it's something you want to do, Mrs. Roarick, um, getting an appraisal is a fee, but there is a fee, but if you want to get an appraisal of the building, however, because we may be sitting here thinking it's 500,000, it might be worth 100,000, right? And that's we don't know. I've multiple times. Look at the market, too. That's the whole thing. Is it worth it? Right. Right. So, again, I think it's one of those conversations that are great to have after this proposal pass. I do seem to remember that before we did this new contract, we did look at that option. We did. That was brought to this board that they looked at that option. At that time, it wasn't feasible. It was better to have the $12,000 a month, but that doesn't mean

090it's a change. And so maybe we need to look at it again. Mr. Laser, good. I'm sorry. For this year's budget, I personally think and this is my own opinion and hopefully the board can discuss it and we can come to some kind of common agreement, but I personally would like to see a herring freeze for next year except for Mrs. Harvard chops direct report and a fifth grade teacher go up until we can have more meetings to understand where we're at and how we are moving forward. I think we'd have to I would say to that I'm not necessarily opposed to that, but we would need to add the two retiring high school English teachers and the one um high school math teacher that we hired would have to be. That's a big that

091that's a big loss. All three of those. Yeah. I mean, you can't I don't know how we could cover how could we cover those? You can't you can't. That's what I And we also, as you know, we also have an athletic director position that's going on too. So that I would also ask for a freeze that the retirements in that position please not be part of any discussions. There's a special ed middle school too. special. I would say coming up or we're looking I I think it might it might make more sense to word it and maybe Miss Trump maybe you could help with the wording that to word it such as a hiring freeze for for any position after like a certain date or I don't know how you would do that so that

092the ones that we currently have open would be included and not be included in the hiring freeze. Not this not anything new that's coming as far as that's concerned. If anything we have at Clay World just give you a picture of what's happening. Uh we have to cover. So there's going to be coverage issues throughout the course of the year whether you know long term for the entire school year that we're going to have. You cannot freeze when someone takes their layers out on maternity. Well, maybe it just is that's going to happen, right? So, those are things and again um we do have retirements, we do have specialization said we do have math. So, those positions are absolutely so instead of hiring hiring free what won't we just say no new positions? There's no

093positions being I'm not saying there is but moving you know moving forward the position I guess I guess my my because I was asked what it would just be that don't forget the board approves the hiring right so you don't have to fill any position it's not administration just recommendation and it's your choice whether to hire that person or not we've tried that actually it didn't work so good yeah we've tried that but even if you he'll bring you the recommendation to hire someone and you don't you know and I'm going to be honest with you I had another district where they had 40 year old teachers die just randomly and they kind of need to fill that position. So I don't know that you want to make an overall pos statement of a hiring

094period because you don't know what's going to happen, right? But you just wouldn't fill any open positions if that's what you want to do. So I have a question about the the nine the 10 because last I heard it was nine that we're expecting. Now it's 10. Um the 10 positions in in Clayville, you mentioned hiring. What are we doing with our stuff? Or are they already all used up? Because I I know I recall in in schools, I don't I don't forgive me, I don't even remember who my math what my math teacher's name was, but Mr. Cunningham took her place as a substitute and he was just a substitute at the time and he finished out the remainder of the year while she was out. I don't even remember why. Um, is that

095something that we're doing in Crazy or I I apologize. I heard I heard you. What I mean is right is that we do need to replace those individuals for short-term substitute positions. I'm sorry. That's I just wanted to make sure because I figured that's probably what you meant, but I heard hires and I thought, well, we have substitutes. Okay. All right. I just want to uh backtrack just a little bit. Um the boiler at Blaine Buffalo. Um it was put in in 2024. The terms were $2,344 a month they pay for 96 months with which is $225,000. So that's fairly new. So if we sold it, we would have to pay we'd have to pay the balance the balance of that. I think they gave I just wanted to throw that just remembered them giving

096us the number. Now we have the facts. Oh, that's a great um this current budget. Um, I believe there's some concern about this first grade teacher being transferred. Um, and I think we need to kind of work that out before we don't have a tax increase because of the teacher. Um, that's something that I think that we could talk about. Um, I guess what I'm trying to get at is the current budget that we have and the recommendation transfers the first grade teacher from Clayville to Joe Walk. If the board chooses to adopt the budget at the maximum amount of tax increase, I believe that we need to figure out what we're going to do with that transfer because I think that will create problems in future meetings. I just think we need to hash

097that out prior to getting into that's just my I agree and I said that earlier. I think if we're going to go to the to the index, then we should replace that teacher because at that point, what's another 94 $95,000? Maybe what we should do though as a board, can we can we just ask that that be taken out of this budget and the three proposals that are given to us not include that? Can't we do that? Yeah, I would like to see that. I know. I was just talking earlier about how well the E3 program is doing. My my kindergartenner reads my text messages over my shoulder. Truly phenomenal. Phenomenal. I think I think that's something that you can do as we could just say that tonight. Could does that have to be a

098motion? easily just taken out. So we for Thursday night we would like to see the addition of a teacher at Joe Walker. Yes. Instead of remove absorbing that'll I'll give you a ballpark 100K. Yes. Yeah. But I'm just saying that so that that would be the the the proposals that are before us and then the recommendation would still be to go to the mill. But just so that it's clear and we we're saying as a board and do we need to go around the table to do that? Do we as a board that we all agree on that that we need to add the future Joe Walker? Just keep in mind that means we have to find another area to find $100,000 savings or we or we add it into I mean it is part

099of the deficit at this point is what I'm saying. you'll go from 1.574 to 1.674, right? I think it's worth it the long term. Well, I would agree, but I and that's I think three of us, you know, do we need to have a consensus of the board? I will not vote for a budget that does not include hiring a fifth grade teacher for Joe Walk. So, yes, I think it needs to be in there. Okay. So, then we're I don't know, Mr. Curten, how you're doing this. Just just go around the board. I just go around and I guess we're voting yes to remove it. No, not to remove it. Does that sound Does that remove? Yes. To add the teacher to Joe Walker. Well, I was just going to remove item three here.

100Joe Walker teacher. That's what I was just so in the district efforts to res reduce cost page cost-saving measures at the bottom the one yeah so yes to remove it yes which means we're adding the teacher correct Correct. Okay. And it would increase the deficit by 95. Okay. Assuming you get somebody step one. No. You would be voting no to absorb teachers. Is that what you said, Jason? Yes. All right. All right. Let's make it easy. Vote yes if you want to see this removed. And that means we're hiring a Joe Walker teacher. Vote no if you want to leave it. 4,000 removed. You're voting no. Just go around. Just go around. Just start with Jackson. Yes. Remove it. Mr. Grove. Sure. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Amen. Wow. So, we shot down that savings

101plan after you worked so hard to come up with. Let me let me say that and I'm not speaking, but it was something that I recognized was very difficult. It was not easy for me. As I said, for the last, you know, since I've been here, I've tried and the board has safeguarded those early primary. Um, so I applaud you for that. I do I applaud you for making that decision. That that's that's the right decision. The reason again why it was there was because of what we were facing as a deficit and that was a tough decision that you would have to make if you went that route. So I applaud you and I understand and my heart says way to go. Um but from a budget standpoint I also I I would you

102might want to hold that thought. I would like to make a recommendation um kind of on the line of what Mr. Laser was saying, but um I would like to see us make a recommendation not to replace the two English teachers. Oh, I can't you can't in in the high school. There's nowhere for those students to go. I would agree. Yes. At the high school level, it's not just about adding more students to a classroom. it. But that falls on the building principle to do scheduling a little better. But what I'm telling you is it's not where are you putting those kids because they've got to be supervised somewhere. It's not like you can say, "Okay, well, we'll just add what are we talking about? 12th grade English classes, AP English classes, 11th grade English

103classes." For English, for English, we're talking 10th, 11th, 12th grade. You're talking about regular AP. Um, you're talking about higher. So, It's not like you can just say we're going to increase all the English classes, but it's my understanding, maybe Dr. Ober can confirm this. Is there currently an English class in the high school with six students in it? I I can't confirm that until I looked at the numbers. Maybe an AP class. There may be an AP class certainly. Right. But again, here's here's what you're you're talking about doing. You're talking about again reducing the number of options. And that is something that we're seeing as we go into the next year, early early um this fall or late summer, those are the tough decisions that I would suggest having to make. At this

104point, my recommendation is based on those numbers is based on what those classes are offering to our students. You just can't say, "Well, then uh schedule it so that that doesn't exist anymore." That's not reality. It's not reality. you are taking away options that our seniors, juniors, and sophomores currently have. And where do you and and that's that's the second part of this like we haven't even gone down that road. We have teachers that have study halls and you may look at that and say, "Well, that teacher has a study hall. They can be teaching. They have a study hall because those students need to be in the place and need to be supervised for safety and other reasons." So there's guys 22 positions have been tested since the 1819 school year. Yeah. And we're

105only down four students per grade. The math doesn't work. It doesn't on this one. I'm just telling you. I wouldn't I would have I would have made that recommendation if I felt that was something that we could have gone to. That recommendation does not come from me. So then if we can't talk about because I I don't want to see any teachers not be replaced. When can we talk about looking at administration then if we can't lose is that's probably not in this budget I would assume because it's kind of late at this point. So then we can talk about it for next year maybe. Everything is everything as I said everything that we made recommendation for for the next school year has to be on the table. Everything that's where we are everything and

106we're going to probably find ourselves. Well, then that's my recommendation is to look at the administration for the next for the next which is why I think those conversations I think they're going to have conversations to have after we get this budget pass. I think it's worth to Jason's point to be able to see the numbers of the classes that the ELA teachers that have left us were teaching versus how many students were in each one of those classes so that the board can make an educated decision on whether or not we believe that it's at least possible with scheduling. You have experience with teaching and scheduling. Dr. over. there are people here who could put in their input whether it's that's okay that is right in as as your chief educator here in McGuffy

107but I want to see the numbers myself so I can make an educated decision is what I'm getting at but then I will say not that that's not necessarily a good idea but at the same time the numbers aren't reflective of what's going on in the classroom either you know and keep in mind that the national um recommendation for high school classes Middle school and high school classes are still 14 to 19. And high school classes are different because you can't just like lump ninth and tth graders together. I understand. You're talking about different grade levels. You're talking about different ability levels. You're talking about different subjects, especially at the AP level. We want to start taking away AP um opportunity. We have received recommendations and accommodations for our AP programs. We want to start

108dismantling those. So, so to to your point and and I and I recognize where that's coming from again, that's what we are suggesting as far as future actions, right? Everything and and that's why I've said from our work session we had two weeks ago, we've got to start this process early. Yeah. Early because that's going to give your building principles, your teachers, everyone input on how that can look. I mean there there's there's structural things you can look at from block scheduling to having a 4 day week. I'm just so you know there's schools over the the Ohio county line here four days due to some of those things. So we need those great discussions but so I'm on board with everything I said everything has to be on the table. Yes. When can we

109make sure that we have those discussion of concern? We the recommendation originally was this kind of a meeting in July. Yeah. Yes. That was the original recommendation. Correct. So we're saying that for we're looking at a a a meeting in July that will be have these discussions. It has to be it has to be step one. Was that not the recommendation last year or was that recommended this year? No. Out of the work session when we were talking about this we said in July. July last week when we had the or two weeks ago. Yeah, last year's recommendation was that we had more of a monthly update on the budget and Mrs. Hoverchock and Dr. Ober have provided that. So, we continue to move forward, right? We're just getting a jump on it. So, I'm

110still on the the asset wagon. Yes. Because I think that $2,000 for 96 months, that means that boiler would be around what $200,000. And so if they've paid for I don't know say a year few months they would have paid maybe what 50 grand say. So we would be on the hook for 150,000 potentially but I still kind of would like to know what that building is worth it. And we don't have to have I mean this is just a suggestion. I don't think we have to pay an appraiser to appraise it. I think what I I think we could get a couple reputable real estate agents that knows property in our area and they should be able I mean you can't hold them to anything but it should be plus or minus it would

111give us some idea anyhow. Then we could decide if we wanted to hire an appraiser to get a perfect I mean I don't the only time I tried that the the first thing the realer told me was get an appraisal. You can get a market analysis. The only thing is school buildings didn't have been market comparing it to how many school buildings been for sale on McGuffy. No, I understand that. Um, but there are some realtors in the area that have had a lot of experience with some of our corporations that may look at a building like that. Um, it may be worth more to them for it may not be worth anything to them. As a matter of fact, I remember correctly. I think one of our school buildings that was owned by Consult

112at one time for office building. Yeah. So, I mean, I don't know. I just It's a valid point to look at. Again, anything valid point to look at. I think everything needs to be on the table. And if anything, um, Dr. Oberg, I want for me, I want you to understand that I want to work together and I want to be able to make the most educated decision I can possibly make. I don't want to be what some of our community members have recognized as Ford to be rubber stampers. I want to be able to sit down and look at data, look at numbers, look at even if I don't understand all of it 100%. I want to be able to sit down and have those tough conversations with you and anybody else who would

113want to sit down with the board to do that. That's just coming from me as an individual board director. But I want you to understand that when I'm asking for information, when I'm asking for for more, it's it's not to try to micromanage or overstaff or anything like that. It is to educate myself so that I can I know 100% this is what I want to do and here's why. I don't ever want it to be, oh, I did that. I didn't even know that was in there. I don't ever want it to be that way. And so, breaking things down to the bare minimum as much as we possibly can, as much as you and and fellow administrators are willing to do for us, that's what I'm asking. I want to be able to

114work together. We are supposed to work together as a team. And we have not been able to do that for a long time. I don't think ever since I've been on this board, to be honest with you. But I want to be able to move forward and I want you to understand that that is where I'm coming from. You were gonna I thought you were gonna say something. Well, I I agree with you. That's right. And and and Doc, I think you know that I I think you're doing a fantastic job. I'm just saying that I think we as a board um should really understand what our district and our teachers in our district are they teaching to their certifications. We need to drill down what are the class sizes so we have a better

115understanding of what's going on. Yeah. Um that way we can make a more educated decision because I I I I do believe there are classes that have low numbers. I do. But I also agree with Dr. Oberg that, you know, you want to offer as many options as possible like Miss Jackson said, right? Um so we're kind of caught in the middle. Well, how do we vote? Because we don't know, right? So if we can moving forward get a better understanding and ask our building principles perhaps to give Dr. Goldberg, you know, look at the teaching certificates. Are are they teaching to their certificates? Are we using them properly? Are they using them properly? And then and the class sizes moving forward. Thank you. In middle school and high school especially, they have to be

116teaching in their field. You can't legally have them teaching outside of their certification. You can't in any No, but I mean, especially in in the content areas. No, like I said, that is going to have to be part of that discussion. Everything has to be on the table. Uh what we're willing to say that we can depart with from programming standpoint and then that can lead to what we're willing to relinquish when it comes to staff. Correct. That said, that's all for future consideration. And so we're back to the same proposals that we've been given um for this proposed budget. So, if there's nothing new for there, I make a motion to reserve. Um, I do have something else. Um, Mr. President, um, I would just like to piggyback a little bit on Monique, um,

117few comments. We ask questions to gain knowledge. It's not because we're trying to be disrespectful or anything. We have the obligation to make the best educated decision that we can and we have to sleep with that decision at night. So when questions are asked, don't take them personal. It's just our way of trying to understand. Um I guess is what I'm trying to say. Um, [Music] I think maybe the board needs to then individually work on how we ask questions because often some of those questions come across as personal attacks or accusations. Um, at this time I would like to make a motion to add an item to the voting agenda for Thursday's scheduled meeting voting meetings and to the our executive session for their purpose to appoint Rebecca Hall Weiss Burkhart and Kramer as

118solicitor from Upper Duffy School District under terms and conditions approved by the board. I second. Well, we have a motion and we have a second. So, we need to vote. Um, and what we're voting for is to put it on the agenda. It would be the first item on the agenda for next for Thursday's voting meeting. Roll call, please. Miss Fry, adding it to next week or I'm sorry, Thursday's agenda as the first item. Yes, Mr. Gross. Yes, Miss Jackson. No, Mr. Laser. Yes, Mr. Barnett. Yes, Miss Shingle. No, Mr. Thomas. No, Mr. Van. Yes, Mr. K. No, wait. 4. So the motion carries. Um before we adjourn, um I do want to address one thing. Um on the increased revenue option page, um I would be remiss if I didn't address this because I

119have I come from athletics and athletic background. on the paytoplay. I would caution especially in in a small revenue district like McGathi because you're going to be taking away opportunities. I know Miss Jackson said something about seeing if it's free or reduced, but that's a process in in itself. Um I can just give you personal examples. Um I talk to high school kids daily. I just showed um Miss Trem when we were talking about the 66 students. I I've talked to 36 high school students in just the last two weeks. Um my normal numbers are around 142 students I talked to. I just told Mrs. Harbchock I'm probably losing a recruit because of money. If that recruit didn't have a chance to play in high school because they would have had to pay, then they

120might lose out on athletic scholarships to go to college. So, athletics, not only does it teach you life skills, it opens up doors to go to college where you may not have been able to afford to go to college. If you can't afford to go to college, you're probably not going to be able to afford to pay maybe a three sport athlete high school. I I know we have plenty three sport athletes. that's $300. And if they have a sibling and they play too, that's $500. And it just adds up. And then you're going to ask them to fund raise to raise money for trips. And it's just uh I would caution you on that. Mr. I think I would agree with you and maybe we should try and take a straw poll or something

121so that Mrs. Harsh knows that that's some areas we don't want to look at or something. I think that's why we've talked about it many times and always decided against it. Yeah. I think you're going to lose athletes and then I would agree. Then it's going to trickle into the band. Then you're going to lose band members and it's just a ripple down effect. Unfortunately, we don't have a affluent community. Correct. Some students if they had to pay $100 what I I can just come off the top of my head and think there's some individual family that had 10 12 kids and if they had to come up with $100 for sport I mean I don't because it was something that No, I think it's a great idea that she brought it up. Um, but

122I and any idea that anybody brings up is good so we could have a discussion on it. But if everybody would agree with Mr. Karns that she knows that this is not an option to pursue, she can spend your time doing other things. I mean, I don't know if that's what he would want or not or it was forong [Music] I think so. With that said, I make a motion to I second. All those in favor? I I motion. Motion carries. Meeting is earned at 7:20.