001e e e you all right good evening everyone I'd like to call to order the 1119 work session please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance the public is hereby advised of the audio and video recording of this meeting for the the purposes of rebroadcasting everyone is in attendance with the exception of Mr Mery and Miss theel I'd like to now move to recognition of guests and schedule speakers Dr Zerby thank you Madame President this evening we have two uh presentations the first one is from uh Charles uh rers of flow analytics uh he will present the student enrollment forecast uh please uh join me in in uh in welcoming Charles he'll be joining us via Zoom or teams on the screen behind us and just wait till our technology people uh get him squared away
002but please know after he gives his presentation there is an opportunity for members of the board to ask him questions we'll be able to uh interact with him as you would in a normal Zoom meeting per se and there is Charles Charles good evening yes hello uh thank you for having me I'm going to try to share my screen as soon as possible to so you don't have to see my huge head on this screen uh we're going to run through several uh figures from the enrollment forecast memo uh you're now are you now seeing my screen with figure one good yes and and you can hear me just fine yes good thank you uh and so we'll run through these ra rather quickly but we'll we can go back to anything you'd like to
003to discuss or ask more questions about uh once I'm done I'll have as much time as you need uh first figure just an overview for context showing the the township boundaries the Elementary School boundaries and the school locations uh next uh student density so we have plotted the students and this map is showing you know the the greatest density of students uh down here around the aabon village where there's some apartment complexes and the Long Ridge Pike uh much lower density in the war sester Township generally than in the Lower Providence Township uh historical population totals for the county the district and and each Township showing that the the district uh in the first decade of this Century grew a little faster than the county uh and in 2010 to 2020 a little more slowly
004and uh while war sester is smaller than lower Providence it's been growing faster in each decade including an latest estimate that it's added several hundred since the 2010 census uh by age group however the the adult population has grown in each decade uh age 18 and over added more than 6,000 people between 20 and 2020 however the the child population has declined uh after a little bit of growth in the school age population uh the last decade saw a a decline of about 900 uh residents counted in ages 5 to 17 and also a decline in the number under age five counted in 2020 sensus compared to 2010 so the the share of total population that's under 18 is is down to close to 20% of the district population the Delaware Valley Regional Planning Commission
005does forecasts for townships uh these were done before the 2020 census I'm I'm not too convinced that these are going to be very accurate U they're they're kind of even lower than what we expect uh but the student generation rate this is the result of our comparison of student locations with recently constructed housing and between 2017 and 2022 we found about 500 new single family homes built within the district and there were K12 District students living in those those housing units for a a student generation rate of about3 that there's about an even split between single family detached homes and town homes you can see the difference in average number of students per home 044 uh per single family detached home so for every hundred homes that's 44 students for every hundred Town Homes only
00618 students another interesting thing about this is that the K4 uh number of K4 students is over half of the K12 total and that's uh mostly because people move into new housing with young children and if we were to look at housing that's 10 to 20 years old we'd probably see more high school students as families age in existing housing and for future housing we've plotted that on on the map uh showing uh locations of prospective single family developments in yellow dots and prospective uh multif family developments in the blue squares so that uh table is showing these same developments many of which are somewhat speculative they are been approved u in some cases they're being uh appealed so uh the notes really specify what the status is uh some small ones under construction of
007course Reserve at Center Square was a huge development but it's largely completed and so doesn't have the impact in the future that it has had uh most recently so my uh suggestion is you know keep an eye on some of these that are under review or or under appeal you know if if they suddenly emerge and and get off the get off get to started then you know we'd love to come back and help you assess the potential uh enrollment impact uh we compiled a historical enrollment by grade uh for several years and the K12 total has been pretty stable uh especially compared with a lot of districts we work with that saw huge losses in 2020 uh looking across at each row the largest enrollment of each grade is shown in in the tan
008or orange color and the the smallest enrollment in blue so you can see the effect of cohorts in the diagonal patterns in some cases for example this this current Year's eighth grade is a relatively small cohort and has been each year as it has advanced through the grades so with that means is as they hit high school and this larger cohort moves out there's almost certain you know some decline in high school enrollment simply due to to the size of the cohorts moving through and this detail shows the individual schools with the same uh shading for the highest and in fact uh currently the the high school has its lowest enrollment in this seven-year period this is a a table we always make for districts but in the case of methacton it's not that relevant
009because you have so few students from out of district and also relatively few students uh only 30 students who live in one of your Elementary areas but go to a different Elementary within your district and so that the transfer rates are very low nearly everybody goes their neighborhood school and for K4 Elementary we provide the detail The Matrix uh for each school by attendance area so the rows are attendance areas 449 K4 students living in Arrowhead Elementary area who go to any methan school 446 of them go to their neighborhood School so that was some context and here is the beginning of the forecast uh figures the one of the first things we look at is the relationship between births within the district uh these are births to to women residing in the district by
010uh cohort and for example students eligible to enroll in kindergarten this year 2024 would have been born between September 8 2018 and August 2019 so that 1.12 ratio means that for every hundred births five years ago there's 112 kindergarten students enrolled in methon school district this year you can see what a difference the F day kindergarten made in this ratio uh prior to to that it the ratio had been at or below one and it's been well above one since uh so for the forecast it's pretty much an average of the last two years uh 2022 may have been a bit of an outlier and why does it jump around a little bit well this we had to make up a bit for this uh low Birth Cohort in 2021 because clearly more people move
011in to the district with children between age between birth and age five since this ratio is above one so the there is not a direct onetoone relationship between births and uh kindergarten a lot of it has to do with immigration which is typical of an areaa with predominantly single family homes so our assumption for uh excuse me sorry to slip around uh assumption for slowly increasing births uh due to population growth uh results in a pretty stable uh slightly increasing toward the end the forecast period kindergarten forecast we also do a high and a low uh scenario at the district level and with uh only a pretty slight change in the Assumption of the ratio uh makes a big difference in the number of kindergarteners so if if we return to a ratio closer to
012what we had in 2022 we could have 14 to to 19 more births or more kindergarteners each year uh conversely a lower ratio closer to this current year would be 11 to 20 fewer kindergarteners each year so you can use this as as the next couple years unfold to see where you are along this this pattern we already know births that have occurred through impacting the next three years and uh so these ratios depending on where kindergarten Falls you'll know what the ratio is once these students are in kindergarten they Advance through the grades uh and we've calculated that for the last several years grade progression ratios so the top row here K1 is the number of first graders each year divided by the number of kindergarteners the previous year and uh that that ratio
013used to be higher of course before full day kindergarten uh when people came in from private kindergartens at at first grade now we'd expect it to be lower uh now that more students are in kindergarten and in general except for 2020 and 2021 most of these ratios are at or above one meaning that the district isn't losing uh students in in grade progressions uh the district often gains a small number 1.01 would be you know 1% increase between uh each grade and the previous grade so the last column shows our forecast based on a long-term average of grade progression so we we expect 1 to 2% more students at each grade in in uh elementary schools and maybe a little more between K1 so put all that together and the middle scenario relatively flat enrollment
014uh staying around 4600 and just uh relatively small differences in in the kto birth ratio and the grade progression rates can make it a big difference of course 10 years out uh few hundred more or fewer students in the middle scenario by grade group the elementary forecast is is pretty stable the green line is uh High School which is expected to decline for a few years due to the size of the cohorts uh graduating compared with those coming in while the upper elementary and intermediate schools are expected to grow uh for the same reason for the next few years and with the detail is provided here here under the low scenario middle scenario High scenario and by individual School U matching the middle scenario uh generally the elementary schools are pretty stable a little bit
015more growth in the the war sester Elementary School uh perhaps due to it having a little more anticipated new housing development also some of this change has to do with just the existing size of the cohorts uh right now uh but the here you can see the detail of the upper elementary and intermediates growing over the next few years and the high school declining and that are that is the Fig that is the extent of the figures would anybody like me to uh would anybody like to take a closer look at any of these figures or or ask questions so thank you Charles um as as everyone can see there's a lot of information within the report certainly the members of the board have the the full copy of the report and uh I think
016in summary Charles if if one would to to summarize this in one statement um is it reasonable to say that uh the district's enrollment projections for the next 10 years are relatively flat yes yes uh so with that um I'm going to ask members of the board if they have any specific questions either about the uh uh the presentation and or the uh report um any members of the board to my right Mr wyers yeah thank you I just have three questions some of them are just Clarity on previous forecast um the birth rates that you used I know that there was was highlighted by the community that there was a mistake or update that was done at one point are these you confirm the birth rates from previous years going backwards or did yeah
017yes I we're really fortunate that the state of Pennsylvania publishes births by Township uh and I I saw some correspondence about the previous mistake and I think it is it was related to revisions that the that the state makes so uh they have preliminary like the the 2023 numbers that we use are preliminary so so there may be a slight revision to them okay thank you just confirming um what is the definition of the year it looks like you have the the birth year um September 1st to August 31st is that what you would Define as a birth yeah and that is an estimate uh that uh in the case of Pennsylvania uh because it's published annually our our model has uh just split the calendar year into 2/3 and 1/3 which I found to
018be slightly better than using the calendar year births in in uh when we've tested it in other places okay thank you and then on uh figure 15 um I I do see the footnote here but you did mention the long-term average related to sorry the long-term average was used to used as the progression ratio is moving forward how did you account for the insertion of the full day kindergarten into that average well uh that is pretty close it's a conservative figure because it's we only have two years of [Music] uh transitions after the full day kindergarten so we've got 1.11 uh in the the first grade entering in 2023 and 1.01 this year uh so we're using 1.04 assuming that uh of course an average would be 1.06 but we're assuming that that the district
019that there are still some people out there who are doing other things for for kindergarten no that okay very good you're not really using in the case of K to one you're not really using a long-term average you're using a short a shortterm average but everywhere else you use sort of the long-term average yeah and actually it's generally a three-year average because we want to throw out these covid years thank you thank you Mr wers are there any other questions from members of the board to my right seeing none right now other questions to my left Miss canro I'm talking as if I'm at work I apologize enter the on one slide uh where it says figure 11 districtwide transfer rates in District transfers I'm assuming that means would that be private school students per
020se because they're enrolled no these are uh they're a subset of your total enrollment okay in in intradistrict transfers so this is the 30 students who are uh who are depicted here uh living in one of the elementary areas but attending a different Elementary School and this is based on our geocoding of the individual student addresses okay all right thank you for that and then the other one was I think in figure eight The Reserve at Center Square I do think right now they have more than just eight units they've had a lot of more development there um there's many houses there so I am curious if we could if you could go back and just do an update on that one because they have currently it was our understanding that there were 250 total
021homes and in fact we have a assessor data showing the homes were sold and and occupied and we believe there remaining to be and so that's what the eight is only a few only a few remaining awesome impact enrollment future fantastic I appreciate that too that's good to know I think too then my my biggest thing too is i' like to see that with the residential development on figure seven um just to note that you're looking in war sister just particularly we're looking at War sister and what's going on there because that was one of our other hot spots at looking at um I know we're we're talking a lot about the high school per se uh with but War cester I noticed that that's two locations that have 25 to 48 potential single family
022home units being built M um yeah and I think those are actually well uh yeah this this new one the application was just submitted uh well earlier this year anyway so it's not uh we I don't think we got confirmation that it's been approved or that permits are being issued but uh but but there are a few other small ones that are where home building is actually going on and those would be the the IDS W4 W5 W6 okay and then just overall last question is in figure 16 when you talk about districtwide enrollment forecast and you've got the low middle and high scenarios is it typical to see I mean you've got variations of 300 at the high range differential like you have your median at 4600 right so we think it might be
023flat but there is I guess some concern of 300 at the high range and then you go down and it's you know another 350 or 3404 on the low end is is that normal to have that that number variation I guess because yeah it it's uh it's 10 years out so there's a lot of unknowns and and we we want to make sure that we're sort of providing a range uh it's tough because you know we can't uh we can't calculate a margin of error because it's not a sample it's a all we can do is from experience you know looking at the past and what has happened uh you know what if those developments that are under appeal what if they took off you know what if there was affordable housing being built what
024if there were more single family detached homes you know that's there's a lot of what ifs but I think the first the first four or five years we're pretty confident about uh and those differences are are more in the range of 150 plus or minus yeah yeah which which just allows us to look at knowing like how many classrooms are needed and to be able to build something that allows us space if there was that higher range but thank you I appreciate this thank you Miss thank you m Miss Purdue thank you I do have and I don't know if it's the same explanation I think it's on figure eight maybe provided for the Reserve at Cent square and I'm looking at the map ID ww6 and I'm wondering for the bell flower is it
025the same as um the rational that you provided for the reserve with the uh number of units and I'm wondering because I think we currently have students in that um property already not a lot but I think some are fully finished already and there we do have students there oh the the Bel yeah W6 okay I well so I I think 16 is the total for that development so if it if there are some that are built already then it's possible that uh that that number would be lower okay and I but if we're looking at uh say one student for every two homes roughly you know that would be a difference of somewhere between [Music] well and in a range of course you know [Music] somewhere between zero to 10 more students depending on
026how many of those homes are built okay thank you and I do have an additional followup for figure five in reference to the notes section um I think note a references tables three and four is that figures three and four oh yeah figure three and four uh basically are the actual Counts from the 2020 census and I put the footnote there because this is a forecast that was prepared before the the regional Planning Commission knew what the 2020 census was was so that's one of the weaknesses of the forecast and then I'm just wondering are you also able to clarify what we are to make of that note in reference to um I think you have a statement that um they will not match the um official counts and so the counts here I'm thinking
027it's the 202 forecast numbers would not match what we have in um the 2020 and it makes sense the 2020 um census in figure four and three so then are you able to clarify a little bit on how we should walk away um from that understanding I'm not sure if you can clarify that a little bit more well I think this these uh I'm kind of familiar with how these Regional planning agencies do these forecasts and it takes a long long time so they come out with a a big forecast for a much bigger area then they have to allocate it down and and so while they published it in June 2021 they started working on it in like 2019 and the sensus data weren't published at the uh yeah the census data that came
028from 2020 at at the substate level wasn't published until the summer of 2021 so they had a forecast for the school district of 37,3 2016 that was based on 2010 and the change that they thought had OCC heard from 2010 up to 2020 but then when the real Census count came out it was 30 it was lower 35,940 so the census didn't count as many people as what the regional planning agency expected that they would have that they would count uh and but the I think the the only reason we include this is because they of the although the base number in 2020 is different I think the idea is the forecast is for continued pretty slow growth uh and and I actually emailed them the the regional Planning Commission asking about uh their forecasts
029and they're expected to update them sometime in 2025 okay thank you I think that helps clarify it much better for me thank you thank you Miss Purdue any other questions Miss [Music] Alon yeah good evening thank you for this report um I was wondering if there is any reason to be looking at our population exclusive of shann andelle I don't know if sha because I know shann andelle has added a lot to our population but not students um so that was just one question question I have if we should maybe carve out shann andell from any of this data as we're looking at it oh yeah that's probably that's probably partly why there's so much growth in the adult population uh it's a population of older people who definitely aren't having kids so uh yeah
030and and we we didn't include Shan andell in the map uh of residential developments I think it was actually in the last report that was done by my colleagues and I thought you know it shouldn't even be in figure eight uh if it's senior housing so yeah it's it's definitely I mean it's part of your total population when the census comes around and counts people but it's definitely not considered to be a source of of uh enrollment growth okay thank yeah thank you um and my other question is has there been a survey and and maybe this is census data that is not yet available um through the uh Delaware Valley Regional Planning Commission but um do we have a sense of how many or what percentage of our housing units are owned by older
031residents um just thinking about you know housing turnover possible housing turnover you know forthcoming if we have a lot of Aging or older um residents yeah that actually is available from the 2020 census it's also available from the American Community survey but but but that's a that's sample data the Census Bureau what uh up until TW 2000 they did something called the long form and it's now the done with in the American Community survey but it's an even smaller sample than the long form it was and so that the best data is still from 2020 census I didn't I didn't look at that but uh those data are available I could probably like it if if if that data is available I would like it if we could take a look at that and incorporate
032that into this projection for our community um and then I also wonder if it's worth revisiting um these enrollment enrollment forecasts in 2025 once the the data from the the updated report from the Delaware Valley Regional Planning Commission is available well uh it's probably not going to I mean they're going to obviously have known about the housing growth spe specifically the number of units The Reserve at Center Square so I imagine they just like the state of Pennsylvania does uh uh population estimate showing growth of about 800 people or no that's uh sorry this one the uh yeah the estimate showing about 800 more residents you know that there'll be a larger base uh year but but they work with it's my understanding if it's like other Metropolitan planning agencies they'll work with local planners
033to find out how much uh housing growth to expect and incorporate those in their forecasts and I doubt that they'll be much different I don't think a new regional forecast would be uh a reason to update the forecast if reasons to update the forecast and there are definitely good reasons and that's why you wouldn't go 10 years uh you know without one reasons would include if uh some of those big developments start to be uh cleared and and underway or if the uh incoming kindergarten were significantly different in size than than what we're forecasting uh those would be good reasons to update the forecast thank you are there any other questions uh uh Miss graph wrong button what is that button thanks I couldn't get a to thanks okay um my question is related to
034figure 16 where we have low middle and high scenarios so my question is what is the basis of the high scenario versus the low scenario versus the middle scenario well one a basis I'd say the bottom line is uncertainty uh if we go back to the the K the K to birth ratio uh you know this this incoming kindergarten can really uh ACR a significant difference uh so you can see if we just assume in the run you know 1.2 uh ratio of the births versus 1.15 you know that's 15 to 20 more births each year going I mean 15 to 20 more kindergarteners each year even without much change in the number of births so that uh know 15 time 6 or 15 Time 5 and suddenly you have 75 more students in K4
035just from a a different assumption about uh in migration basically uh so and and that would probably uh also could relate to a higher level of Housing Development or turnover uh you know we had a question question about older people owning homes if if those homes turn over to younger people that also brings in uh in more of a Elementary age population and and a higher kto birth ratio so that's part of it and then also you know different assumption just a very slightly different assumption about say 1% more uh uh cohort growth each year that will also accumulate uh if you have 4600 students now you know 1% more is 46 so if that were to to persist year after year you know suddenly you would have the higher forecast but again that's 10
036years out and it it is tempting to look at the end year and and look at that big gap but I think we would see it coming uh you know we last we we worked with you uh after the 2020 during the 2021 22 school year so that was three years ago and those forecasts are actually at the K12 level they're actually pretty close to to this year's enrollment uh individual grades are some higher and lower which is why it's good to do a a reset but it's not uh the long run forecast is not terribly different so you know for a district year size doing a looking out doing a reset every three years or so is is a good policy because uh I think you if we saw something more like the high
037or the low then that would be a good reason to to rethink the long term okay um I maybe my question was a little bit more um basic than that and I I think what I'm trying to get at is what's the percentage probability that we are going to be above the high below the low or between the high and the low okay how about I it that way yeah a sort of looking for a a confidence interval yes uh yeah we're we actually do evaluations uh you know haven't done a 10-year evaluation but uh each year year when new data come out I love to look at the actual enrollment and and it's 80 90% of the time it's between the high and the low just within the first couple years uh I've I've
038looked at some forecasts that that have been done longer ago and of course you know there's the Great Recession there's there's the pandemic you know so some of those things are uh things that were unanticipated but I'd say there's I'd say there's you know I I hope that I can claim that there's a 80 to 90% chance that we'll be between the high and the low okay so each year going out yeah that answers I think that answers my question the other question I guess that I have is related to the birth rates what justifies a 5% differential in the birth rate between the middle and the High I mean is that just a a number that you typically use yeah yeah well also just looking at historically we don't have a very long history
039because of uh because of full day kindergarten but but we see what the range can can be you know for a lot of other districts where we have seven to 10 or more years of either stable ratios or you know looking at the pre-co ratio and you know has and this doesn't apply to fact and unfortunately but if if if there if new current rates had recovered to pre-co uh rates then we'd be pretty confident that that they're a stable rate going forward uh but so you see there's a range in the three years that you've had uh full full day kindergarten there's a range from 1.12 this year to 1.26 three years ago so we we'd probably want to stay generally within that range okay that's helpful thank you so much are there any
040other questions to from members of the board from for Charles this evening Charles thank you so much for your time this evening and thank you for presenting the report um I will follow up with Charles on some of the housing turnover uh questions and if there's any other comments that board members have after this evening that you didn't have a chance to to ask please send them to me if there's any additional information that we think we need I'd be glad to work with Charles to to gather that information for you with that said Charles thank you this evening and uh and have a great have a great day yeah thank you bye uh next on the agenda we have mton High School uh project update we have Mr Josh Grace from cha our owners
041rep and Devin Bradbery from the Shader group our design professionals uh we have one slide to share with you this evening uh just just briefly to uh keep be apprised of uh the progress that we're making uh Mr Grace thank you and good evening um so as we've been uh giving you periodic updates throughout the process so far we got through the conceptual design phase and after that last board vote uh to formally proceed with the next step we're now stepping into schematic design and then design development and again each step really just adds another level or quite a few levels of detail along the way so um with schematic design we've started the process of communication with the township the Land Development process as you're well aware is a key component for um getting
042approvals and uh solidifying the schematic design effort so we've started those talks that will be ongoing throughout both schematic and design development some of the other tasks with schematic design incl includes some more geotechnical testing storm water infiltration testing we're going to be solidifying the scope of a traffic impact study some preliminary phasing considerations as it relates to parking and access and everything that needs to be maintained on site throughout construction um we're also going to have uh with shraer group uh what they call a taste test of materials so in other words um material selection possibilities for that exterior of the building whether it's brick metal panels uh Limestone accents those types of things they can start getting some options in front of uh in front of the board each step of the way
043we will be providing a cost estimate um update and value engineering opportunities and um really key again with board input and keeping the board informed of all the steps there will be a vote at the February 25th board meeting which is kind of the end of schematic design that um we are to proceed then into the next step which is design development so um again these are all steps along the way of getting us ready for construction documents getting ready to bid uh we just wanted to provide a quick update tonight so I'll let Devon talk a little bit more about the design development aspect and what that means but again we're taking it step by step we will be back periodically and obviously in February for a more comprehensive schematic design update Before The
044Next Step thank you Josh uh good evening everyone uh just to add to Josh's uh points before uh Land Development also includes zoning so those are two parallel processes that we're working with the township on uh currently it's important to get in front of those people uh now because they are 12month processes uh a lot of times with these projects the size so uh it is long journey ahead of us um for design development we will continue uh those zoning and Land Development uh submissions it does say end approvals but don't expect the approval at the end of design development that would be towards the end of the project here um we will finalize the site layout and circulation we'll we'll uh continue to develop the floor plans and elevations uh Mr Grace mentioned the
045exterior taste test schematic design is an opportunity for us to think about materials and think about uh different construction types so that they can provide the accurate cost estimate the design development phase really gets into some of those details so you'll have a much more uh defined cost estimate at the end of the design development phase in which case we can go through that value engine value Engineering Process uh one more time at that phase um it is important for design development uh you will have a a really detailed uh cost estimate that we will then go through the ACT 34 hearing process so at design development we'll have a a maximum uh construction cost and that will be uh listed in the ACT 34 hearing and we cannot go above that um threshold or
046else we'd have to hold another act 34 hearing um also included we'll uh hope to bring in a lot of the staff and student to get them involved in the process typically schematic design is more of a an overall administrative team with maybe some leaders uh from from the the staff members and then we get a chance to really dive into the the the program and the and their individual spaces in the design development phase uh it's always fun to have the students involved as well um we'll also develop a lot of the the building system so the structural systems the mechanical electrical Plumbing Systems fire uh suppression systems all that stuff will begin to take shape in design development and then we'll get to select some of the finishes uh to really get a
047handle on what the district is looking for in the high school um we do note an August 26th board approval that is uh scheduled at the moment uh but it does say September at the end of this phase that is just because the ACT 34 uh hearing would need to be approved for advertisement on that uh August 26 board meeting and then the ACT 34 hearing would be held in September questions thank you gentlemen are there questions for members of the board at this point in time Mr wers yeah is there any insights um from war sester on more the what they're looking for or concerns I know they you had preliminary discussions but have we gone any further with what like uh discussions about setbacks and things like that we have a general understanding
048um of what they're going to be looking for the types of things that they will be uh considering and providing comment on um they have not committed at this time to giving any feedback formally in writing uh there really needs to be a sketch plan submission to them uh to respond formally but we did through those discussions already kind of verify some of the things that we figured were going to be talking points which they confirmed um so we can you know definitely uh fine-tune some of the points that need to be made publicly in those meetings from a curiosity question um the City View that is certainly in the news are they looking to be going Beyond two and a half stories uh yes Devon says yes there um and then the only other
049question I'm not sure where it fits in or maybe it fits in after the fact but what about uh potential energy grants if uh you did a solar field or you know geothermal or any of those type of things where does that fit in and the costing and understanding if there if there's a 10% chance that we might be eligible what type of return on investment or not not return on investment we might get for things like that so whether it's energy or any other available grants we are currently pursuing those now um I wouldn't imagine you'd see much difference until we get into the design development phase um at this point but um there are some other Redevelopment Authority possibilities that we're looking at that um sustainability obviously can provide some opportunities uh we're
050not targeting a lead building at this point in some cases you have to achieve lead status in order to get grants but we're certainly looking at every opportunity whether it's energy related um or not to provide some grant opportunities but really nothing I don't think would really take shape until we get uh closer to being what they consider shovel ready in other words we have a viable project we have a viable budget and it's proceeding so once we get further along we can definitely bring those opportunities to the table thank you Miss clear this may not be a question for you guys it might be a question for the administration but somewhere in in this process have we built in being able to uh have additional public feedback on whether it's at the end of
051design development I we talk about finalize talk about conducting end user meetings with students and staff and I'm just wondering is there more opportunity for the public to provide feedback yeah I think that's uh still in the development we've had we've had our one meeting so far since the the formal vote uh to move into this phase uh but there's a lot of planning that still needs to be conducted at this point in time so we we certainly like we've done in every phase you know provide opportunity for feedback here at at the public meetings before the bo as well as some other open public forums that we've had okay thank you any other questions members Miss graph see if I can hit the right button this time um so just for education purposes um
052could you tell us a little bit about as you're estimating cost estimates at the completion of schematic design versus the cost estimate that you'll have at the end of the actual design development phase could you give us an indication of the differences between those two estimates and how close they will be or could be to the reality versus I guess how you know is it up plus or minus 50% plus or minus 20% you know sure so at this point um a schematic estimate is going to be around the same level of detail as the conceptual um having some more information with g geot Technical and and storm water and a site layout that we think is going to work which might change from what has been presented previously is really going to help once
053we get into design development we're not just budgeting an overall HVAC system we will have information regarding the type of system the number of units the potential extent of duct work or piping so that we can actually start to to do takeoffs of um linear feet of piping the size of piping so it's going to be much more detailed once we get into the design development phase um schematic design there's going to be a little bit more detail than conceptual but um certainly not to the extent of design development and as as Devon mentioned that act 34 hearing really is um where the costs are presented and are are somewhat finalized so they need to be detailed at that point um so I hope that answers the question it does I I think in my
054world I sort of think of it like this um the end of schematic design is like when the guy comes to your house and says yeah I can build you a pool for 100 grand and then when you get to the end of design development he actually knows what size the pool is what shape it is and how much the materials are going to cost and he says well it's actually going to cost you 130 Grand is that about right I'm not going to use that jump in cost that as yes I'm agreeing with you but that that's that's a good way of saying we will have much more clearly defined systems quantities areas all that type of stuff great um and the other question I had is following up on Mr Winter's question what
055is the timing of the first submissions to war sester Township the um what's called a sketch plan will be happening within about the next two weeks or so so that's the prelim plan for them to provide comment on at the end of schematic design at the February time frame is when the actual um submission will be made so there's a preliminary submission to be made which you know then gets formally um discussed at the Planning Commission zoning meetings and just for The public's information those meetings are public and the public may come and comment on those designs and approaches to what we we would propose to do the high school property it is a public meeting in both cases yes okay and the last thing I was just going to follow up on the question
056about grants at some point in the future I would be really interested to have a presentation to the board about the types of grants that are available what kinds of sustainability options we have and this gets to your point about like is it worth spending the money to do a lead construction versus the grants you would get versus how much it cost you to to do that that kind of presentation for informational purposes to the board and just related to those lead grants there was a program that has been sort of open and closed a few times over the past few years which is the Ace Program it's the alternative and clean energy program through the state um they have been uh providing I think upwards of $2 million uh to achieve lead gold um
057that currently is not open if it were to open again we could maybe consider that but you're right you're pretty much changing a lot of the design aspects which may or may not you know provide benefit right the tradeoffs may not be there yeah I got it thank you yeah if I could just add to that M gra I I think uh what we what we really need to do inside aside from all the grants is is talk about all the possible alternatives to just taxpayer funding of of the project which includes the potential of uh you know doing a capital campaign of raising funds that way so I think maybe a combination of all that stuff for the board sometime prior to possibly February or if not February March okay any other questions uh
058Miss uh kro that's a you know that was exactly was going to task the administration and even the collaboration with both of your groups you've worked with districts before you've seen additional funding coming through I know when we did the walk at uh doown they had the funding of the pharmaceutical companies and I'm just curious who'd LED that so if you're able to go back to Prior projects that you worked on and just help us be collaborative of where we could Outsource and how do we reach out and what did the districts do was there a lead person what you know just so that we can really look at other additional sources that we could do and not just be based on tax-based funding um would be wonderful and then the other thing is that
059I really likeed that I filed with North Penn and the Shader group was the public feedback and interactive Lego pieces was that during the design development stage that you did that or was that just more so like so no it wasn't because they did not approve it right so yeah that was for a referendum so we did that PR prior to the referendum but that would have been done in the conceptual or schematic design phase I just think it would be really a great thing to provide interactive public opportunity bring back some of the people you know and ask anyone else that's interested in seeing this design development to create that kind of atmosphere of sure yeah we can we can discuss what Dr just see see if that's something that would be of an
060opportunity thank you other questions uh Miss Austin yeah thank you just along also along the line of Grants I would just suggest reaching out to Joe Webster Katie m de's offices right now to make sure that this is on their radar for um Appropriations yeah thank you uh we actually have meetings scheduled so thank you are there any other questions for members of the board at this time gentlemen thank you for your time this evening we appreciate it um as you'll see on the agenda we'll also next week have the spirit of methacton where uh principal from Eagleville Elementary School Mr Cochran will uh uh present uh spirit of methacton awards we'll have then the reports as listed uh please please know that uh we did receive all the committee reports for this month's um
061uh committee meetings we just did not get them done in time posted so we do apologize for that but I I want to thank all the committee chairs for getting me the committee reports on time they just did not get posted so we will get them uh posted for the agenda to go live uh on uh uh for Saturday uh with that uh there'll be uh other public comment on board action items for next week board me meeting minutes and then we have fiscal items uh Miss Steppy thank you Dr Zerby tonight there are seven fiscal items for your consideration item 9A list of bills item 9B the treasurers report item 9 C budgetary transfers there are no budgetary transfers for approval this month 9 D War sester roof survey approve Mark J soac roof
062Consulting Incorporated of laern PA to conduct a warer elementary school roof survey at a cost of $5,400 item 9e arola facad survey approv cha Consulting Incorporated of Bethlehem PA to conduct an our Intermediate School facade survey at a cost of $18,700 item 9f 2025 master plan projects approved Conexus Incorporated of Middletown PA a co-stars approved vendor to provide engineering design installation graphics and materials for Woodland Elementary School HVAC controls upgrade at a cost of $32,500 item 9g District Auditors approve the extension of the existing agreement with District Auditors Gman and Associates of Northampton PA with the following items audit fee single audit fee hourly rate 2425 costs of $33,000 2526 cost of $34,500 2627 costs of $36,000 are there any questions thank you Miss depy uh just for the board's uh uh awareness both item
063or all items uh listed from 9 d uh E and F were part of recommendations to move forward from the this month's property committee other questions on fiscal items Miss Clary uh yeah on um sorry on item 9d I had raised some questions at the property meeting and I just I'm hoping to get answers to that stuff before next week's board meeting um the one I don't know if you want me to talk about them again but um I had asked if our district solicitor had looked over this proposal because I had some concerns about the proposal the brevity of it um I had suggested some specific language in terms of um in terms of the scope of work um the very last bullet point when they attend the property committee meeting in 2025 what
064they're going to deliver to us which would be um you know to provide the survey results um and then I had some questions about warranty language or indemnification language or um insurance requirements I just wanted to make sure that the solicitor has has looked this over given how short it is um or if and then I think I might have asked if there was a master Services agreement instead that would cover the language that I would be more used to saying so okay thank you okay we we will make sure that we have those before you and we'll we'll provide that information to the to the board in the Friday memo thank you uh Mr wers yeah also 90 I I don't recall the timing on this I know that the reason that the property
065committee is looking at this is that um trying to make sure we understand the life of the the roof right um if there is a requirement to replace it is is this semi slotted for this coming summer or the following summer Dr Seria yes thank you if we were able to move forward with this based on the information that we receive in January the intent would be to do it during the summer of 2025 with the option to do it during the summer of 2026 if necessary thank you any other questions to my right to my left Miss Purdue just a quick one in reference to n9g um for gourman and Associates um the line item for single audit fee is there ever a time that we will require a single audit have we required
066one in the past because I'm just wondering if we're doing an audit fee for the entire School District when will we need an audit fee I mean a single audit so a single audit would be necessary if we receive federal funding in excess of $750,000 um so right now that would be typically your Esra funds Maybe so why so that wouldn't be covered under the the first item no okay and I I believe if I'm if I'm correct Miss Steppy uh the the note that we received from uh Gorman was that it's likely that the district will need to have a single audit done every year of of the proposed time frame is that correct uh yeah okay yeah so it's it's likely that the district will need to do the single audit so would
067that I guess the single audit fee then will that cover would that is that a fee that will incur for each single Grant they have to do a audit on or okay no they if you if there's more than one they pick one so some years they'll audit Food Service other years it would be Esser any other questions Miss Al no I'm sorry okay seeing no other questions on uh financial matters we're going to move on to personel items Dr sorini thank you Dr Zerby for the consideration of the board this month are the following Personnel items two resignations administrator both for retirement Daniel bontempo assistant principal at the high school after 29 years of service to the students of methacton and Timothy barbag Gallow was assistant to the director of facilities after 14 years
068of service to methacton the methacton family is grateful to Dan and Tim for their leadership Dan is assistant principal at arola than the high school where he guided so many aspects of student life including the scheduling process and where he became a much respected and appreciated fixture at student events including countless countless athletic competitions and arts performances both here in the district and at uh our various District Partners across the area and Tim is the assistant to the director of facilities where he led the ongoing maintenance and upkeep of the facilities and where he stepped up and guided the department as interim director the methacton family wishes Dan and Tim the very best in their retirement there are three resignations profess professional rather Emily lettington special education instructor at Arrowhead we thank Emily for her
069service to methacton and we wish her well and there are two resignations for retirement jod latanzi certified school nurse at war sester after 2 three years of dedicated service to methacton and Mary Thomas certified school nurse at Woodland after 30 years of dedicated service to methacton Jody and Mary are part of the very fabric of Life at War sester and Woodland Elementary Schools their depth of caring and knowledge have made war sester and Woodland safe and happy places to learn and grow nurse jod and nurse Mary are an integral and invaluable part of the lives of the student staff and families of those schools and the entire Matha and family wishes them the very best in retirement there are two resignations classified again both for retirement Jeffrey nil Naylor utility grounds person after 24 years
070of service to methacton and Mary Joe D Rosado office assistant at war sester after 19 years of service the methacton family is grateful to Jeff for his many years in maintaining the grounds and Fields uh throughout our district ensuring the safe and effective use of our facilities and optimizing playing conditions for our students and to marry Joe for making War sester a joyful place for student staff and visitors especially through her leader ship in the main office in the cafeteria and again the methacton family wishes Jeff and Mary Joe the very best in their retirement there is the addition of one updated job description for the utility grounds person position this is an existing position this job description has the addition of experience and Proficiency in the maintenance of small engines added as a specific
071qualification and also the inclusion of painting job responsibilities that were added we are replacing two members of that department due to retire retirement and are taking the opportunity to uh make some changes to the job description there are three Employments classified Jenna D Franchesco personal care assistant at Sky View Logan GES par professional at Woodland and Katherine mosset bus assistant at transportation we welcome Jenna Logan and Katie there's one uncompensated leave administrative Taylor Parker director of Athletics and activities for the time period identified three uncompensated leaves professional all retroactive Alexis Washington K to2 diversity equity and inclusion and climate counselor Olivia Roberts art instructor at arola and Anita Morgan second grade instructor at Arrowhead each for the identified dates one uncompensated leave classified retroactive Kristen bar Jones personal care assistant at arola for the identified
072dates supplemental contracts for the pupil services department and the addition of three individuals to the classified substitute list Karen McIntyre custodial casual on call Kayla price supports sta casual on call and Sophia Slater supports sta casual on call and we welcome Karen Kayla and Sophia thank you thank you Dr s are there any questions from members of the board to my left Miss canro um more just a recognition of all the resignations you know these are really some really important people that are resigned um that are retiring which I'm happy for them to do and I'm kind of bummed that they're not finishing out the school year but we typically knowledge and and they come at the end of the year do you do anything to make sure that the school district knows like told
073the administration that recognition of these people that are resigning not I keep saying resigning but retiring now can we show some sort of support and thanks we do we we generally do uh both internally and then here at the uh the open public meeting and then in may we will have all of these people back again but right now are we going to do some kind of a out to people just to let acknowledge the retirements of the midyear people can we yes we'll work with the individual building principles to ensure that that information is shared out as well thanks other questions left M Purdue I just have a question regards to 10g um this is you're saying this is a replacement in reference to the bus assistant at transportation when when was that position
074um when did that position become available we've had a bus assistant position posted for a significant period of time this individual position became available uh at the end of August do we what is the process for filling that um bus assistant position for any position we posted for a period of of time that is generally uh posted publicly we post post both internally and externally we then go through a series of application reviews and interviews for all positions and there is also a vetting process whereby we do reference checking and then at that point we do recommend individuals to the board of school directors Dr sujini if I could uh is it historically been a challenge to uh hire people for these positions yes it has historically been a challenge however we have been able
075to fill multiple of these positions over the course of the last several months so we have shown recent success in doing so good and I I only wanted to get a little bit of clarification because we eliminated a position in transportation I just wanted to make sure that this is not something no this is completely unrelated this is a bus assistant we have bus assistants who are scheduled to ride certain of our routes based on student needs on those buses that's what this position is that's correct perfect I I didn't know just because the way it say bus assistant at Transportation so I don't know if it's meaning in within the transportation department or is it just for I wanted to get some clarity transportation is identified it's the where they report to okay each
076day thank you other questions on personal items to my left sign to my right Mr wers yeah I certainly recognize all the um retirements and as Miss kro said um a lot of great people retiring I just want there does I I think uh Mr Von Tempo retiring right before the scheduling cycle for the high school might have been the incentive for retiring at the end of the year but I I do have concerns about you know the knowledge related to that and I think uh Dr Viria you had indicated that we are looking at using power school and some other tools to make this more um I guess objective I don't know what the right word is but less in somebody's head is that correct yeah the the long-term process for that is trying
077to engage the power school system to be able to do the the loads and builds for us in the schedule over the last couple years we obviously been working with Mr bontempo uh kind of the traj of retirement recognizing that and so we have a number of people that have been training with him and he's able to assist us even if we were to call on him in the spring to be able to assist with some of this as well any other questions to my right see none other we'll move on to the next agenda item uh we have no items for curriculum this month and we'll go to policy Dr Regina thank you Dr Zerby uh really we're into our 600 series as most of us know um our 600 series does not have
078a lot of changes in it most of them are formatting changes and some clarification on uh different terminology and pronouns and so uh for first read we do only have the four items as you see there and second read are the items that we talked about last week again very few edits on those items that you'll be voting for next week and that's all the updates I have thank you Dr reg any questions on on matters of policy seeing no questions we'll move on to other we see that we'll have some gifts and donations uh to approve the donation from community members to The Backpack program for $104 37 cents to approve a gift of Sky View student spirit wear hats and shirts uh uh from the sky view home and School Association for PBIS
079at valued at $250 and then to approve a generous gift to lower the cost of Lost River Cavern student field trip by Sky View home at school a value of 200 $ in terms of uh trips there are two trips uh listed on the agenda for your approval next week and that's to approve the high school wrestling team uh to participate in saleno high school uh from December 6 to the 7th um and then to approve the boys High School indoor track team to participate and to meet in Virginia Beach Sports Center on January 10th to the 11th uh we will have we anticipate having some drivers to uh post here uh for your approval uh by next week we don't have that list uh completed as of right now uh but you can dissipate
080those drivers uh and then the two agreements that are listed here the first one is to approve the ratification of terms of the collective bargain agreement between methacton school district and Teamsters Local 384 effective July 1 20125 through June 30 2028 uh the terms uh were provided uh to the board of school directors and then the second one is to approve the ratification of terms of the collective bargaining agreement uh between uh the school district and Matha and education uh support professional association effective July 1 uh 2025 to June 30 2028 uh and terms provided uh to the board of of school directors as well um and that that uh ends the matters associated with the agenda for your consideration I'll turn it over to uh Madame President is there anything for New or Old
081business yes Miss Alon just a question under other under trips um usually the and if any cost Associated to the district is um goes with those trips that's usually listed on the agenda you could you repeat that I do apologize typically any cost to the District that are associated with the trips are listed on the agenda that's correct I I don't believe there's any uh uh let me look okay and then or say no cost to the district because that's also usually stated as well yep I I'll check into that thank you I think it's also important uh that I can uh you know make that make an executive session announcement uh for for this tonight's meeting uh there was an executive session uh held on Wednesday November 13th uh virtually uh for the matter
082of discussing uh contract uh negotiations uh with uh uh the district and teamers uh 384 as well as the district and the mespa or methacton education support professional association that ends that comment and any other comments yes Mr winus no just before I just want to get on the record I plan to abstain for item 13d to and I'll provide the reasons next week I do want to add I want to and I'll say it again next week too I want to thank the administration and everyone involved with the teamsters and the MAA and education support professional association I do think it really demonstrates a positive relationship that we have with all of the parties involved and and I'm I'm excited that we you were able to we were able to come to an agreement
083of early bird um and thank you I think it it's pretty fantastic so thank you any other comments or questions for old and new business I do want to also I'll say when we have uh Miss pergolini in front of us though the Apex award was fantastic to see and everyone involved and Miss Alon do you want to talk about the theater I figured it might be a shout out that is due just a shout out to The Talented cast and crew of uh math Acton's Christmas Carol um and now they are getting ready for tryouts for the spring musical which it will be Guys and Dolls I heard it was a fantastic show any other comments or questions for New or Old business and a shout out to miss fizgerald for sure for helping
084collaborate such a wonderful show and working with the students they're very very talented so and that was a big cast up there with all those little kids it was wonderful wonderful big cast absolutely all right all right we'll now move to Courtesy of the floor all right the board of school directors will now provide an opportunity for residents to make comment on matters that are or maybe before by the board the board asks you keep your comments to three minutes or less the board of school directors may choose to respond to matters following the conclusion of the comments and please submit questions via email to information methacton.org Jim mik War sester Paul so you know City View uh variant has got shot down I don't think they like tall buildings in war sester U Miss
085clear thanks for thinking about the taxpayers I appreciate you thinking about us um I found out at the finance committee we got another $1.6 million surplus over taxed again $1.6 million um I heard about your teamsters and everybody's happy with the way it all came out did your proposed new high school a spending of 425 million affect that negotiation at all probably think it did you know if they look at your debt service I think it's going to be beneficial to you guys in your negotiations um I got to see the flow presentation totally unimpressed um why didn't you get a projection for all those proposed developments going in and say look worst case scenario how many kids will come out of that development if they all go through then you know because that Highline
086is probably that because of that so I I couldn't see real well but I'm thinking it's a couple hundred units you do a multiplier of 1.2 time 1.8 that's 300 kids so you know I don't know what you guys are thinking about but that's what I would have asked them you also didn't ask them why he's a initial and Roman projections two years ago were wrong he was off if you look the original 9 to12 projections for 2728 were 1490 the ones he just put up there are 1397 he's off by a hundred 100 after two years right but guess what's interesting about this right the lowest projection you have for the high school is 1397 in 2728 you know what that correlates with building your new high school isn't that a coincidence how that
087worked out worked out perfect for you to sell your new high school I think you got a problem with those projections that you need to look into um at the last meeting the board passed a res resolution for borrowing $19 million nobody told us about the interest on that debt 29 million bucks for a total of 48 million bucks that's what you're actually borrowing 48 million I asked Paul some questions via email about um you know since the borrowing was supposed to pay for capital projects and pay cost and expenses of the bonds I asked about the expenses of the bonds and he's got no clue he says we got to wait to spend the money to find out the cost on the borrowing is that how it works ridiculous I also asked for give
088me some detail on the projects and I got none I got check the master plan again so you guys I will finish my statement I think you guys need to go look at the itemized give us an itemized uh accounting of what you intend to spend the money on [Music] good evening John Andrews Lower Providence I've presented this board a series of discourses asking you to contract for a professional High School renovation study this study is logical convincing rational timely and affordable others also favor renovation studies the result Silence by all of you an absolute failure of your clear need for fiduciary duty admin recently conducted a community survey designed to gather support of its goal of a great appearance plan for a new High School the outcome 360 submissions out of our population of
089about 36,000 or a 1% participation rate also Clear Proof of communications failures and the lack of community buyin for replacement of the existing building by a series of tossup answers still silence careful review of The Facts available to you last month reveal issues of a new high school design building new and demolition of existing results in a huge bill for 549 million payable over 30 years as I detailed the recent study by the capable shreder group detailed a series of design limitations of the small Hillside available building site none of the recent independent facilities assessments called for the demolition perhaps you are blinded by emotion or hypnotized we are all imperfect but it only takes three of you to call a special meeting on on this or any other issue per school code whether fiduciary
090duty or oversight your job in position is failed by your silence on the issue of a renovation study the main goal of of our strategic plan is improving ranking ranking is barely influenced by facility appearance education quality is mostly determined by teacher quality that takes good salaries and heavy facility debt greatly limits that again I observe more silence here discussion and action Trump silence and inaction I yield the remainder of my three minutes to you thank you thank you any comments or anything from public from courtesy the floor all right seeing none may I have a motion to adjourn Miss graph May I a second Mr Winters meeting is adjourned