001You are now live. >> Thank you, Miss Fakish. Uh, welcome everyone to the September 2025 safe schools committee meeting and we will call it to order and as always we will start with the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay, with that we'll um move on to the approval of the minutes uh for August 25th, 2025. Do we have a motion? >> So moved. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Okay. Um any comments or questions? >> No. >> All right. Hearing uh none. Uh all those in favor say I. >> I. >> Raise your hand. >> Feel like I'm out of practice. Uh the motion
002passes unanimously. Uh and now we'll move uh before we move on to the action items. Uh Dr. Bower, we have some new guests. Um >> we do have new guests this evening. Good evening everyone and thank you for joining us for our September safe schools committee meeting. I'm so pleased to introduce to you our two new student reps. Uh first we have Grace Jiao. Uh she is a senior at North Penn High School and we also have Thomas Judge. If uh Grace if you want to unmute. No one sees you until you speak. So if you can unmute and just say good evening. Um go ahead. >> Good evening everyone. My name is Grace Cha. I'm currently a senior at Northland High School and I'm so excited to serve as one of the student reps
003on the safe schools committee for the 2025 to 26 school year. Thank you for having me. >> Beautifully said. And Thomas, please introduce yourself. >> Hello, I'm Thomas Judge. I'm a senior at Northbend High School. I'm very excited to be serving with you guys as well. And hopefully we can all find something that's helpful. >> That's great. Well, h having your uh voices and as a representative of of students across uh the district, it's uh we're very fortunate to have your experience and your voice here. So, please feel free to use it as any other member on this committee. Um, and you could also, um, reach out to the administration and the representatives here today if you ever have questions of this committee, um, or items you'd like on the agenda, information, and they'll make
004sure that the committee is aware of that and is able to to respond. So, we we truly u embrace your involvement and um, don't be shy because there's a lot that you know that we don't and that's why you're here. Uh, just one more uh, description, Dr. Bower. Uh it's my understanding also that for any of the committees uh across uh the board committees there's a process actually so they we don't have students on the committees that just raised their hand and and they were first but there's actually a process correct >> yes actually uh this year's process was a little more thorough than most. Um so Mr. Fluck, the director of student activities at North Penn High School, obviously put out some advertisements and uh through the typical news channels for students and uh
005students had to submit a video uh almost like a pseudo interview and explain why they wanted to be a part of one of the committees. So Dr. Waters and Dr. Nicholson along with Mr. Flux screened the applicants and we're just really pleased to have Thomas and Grace with us tonight for this committee. Well, thanks for that context and congratulations. So, uh it's it's wonderful u to to have all fresh perspectives uh across all of our committees to help inform the board. Um so, welcome uh on behalf of of this committee. Uh with that, we'll move on to action items and u Mr. Ran, if uh or Dr. Bower, if you want to kick it off with item A, please. >> Mr. Takasa, if it would be okay with you, I think um item B is
006a fairly simple reup of a subscription for door access. So, Mr. Ran, if you wouldn't mind, just give a brief summary of B and then we'll move into A, which is certainly going to be a longer presentation and discussion. >> Sure. Absolutely. Thank you, Dr. Bower. So, uh action item B is a service maintenance agreement for our access control. Uh as you know, we have card access control across the entire district. Uh and so this agreement allows us to um have seammens come out for various types of uh trouble issues that uh our own folks may not um have the bandwidth to uh take care of. Um so this is for a two-year agreement that allows us to not be charged by the hour. Um and we would just uh as a part of this
007agreement seams would come out and do work that um our folks couldn't do. >> Thanks for that description. Any uh questions or comments from the committee? Miss McMarter, >> is this a motion though before I can question or how to >> um you know what? Go ahead, Dr. >> Yeah, I was technically um in our committee structure, we're just moving things to an action meeting. So if we go out of order, it's no problem. So go ahead. >> So um thanks Mr. Ran. Um I I'm concerned um about the fact that the agreement is with Seammens. There have been other situations where Seammens has not been responsive to us and this is a two-year agreement. So I want to understand it so that I feel comfortable moving this forward. >> Yeah, agreed. Uh so uh
008Seammens is the um unfortunately Seammens is the only organization because their their product is proprietary. Um we we don't have the ability to go out and get a different integrator to do work on their systems. Um like most proprietary systems they lock out. Um so it's kind of like taking your iPhone to uh Google Play Store and asking them to do maintenance work on it. um you know, Apple locks their stuff out so that only their folks can do work on it. Uh I I will I will agree with you that um I I will tell you that I am not the most happy with Seammens. Um but for right now where we are um this this really is the the only option we have is to have this service agreement uh for them to
009do work that uh needs to be done. I I will say um having had to reach out to them on a a couple occasions while at first I did experience what you're talking about as to not being so receptive and or timely um but I have made some uh connections where I can get to folks directly um and and get to the top of queue and so we've we've been successful in that a couple times. >> Okay. So I'm glad you did that. It's it's disappointing to hear that you had to do that and you can't actually use the process that's in place. Why would we uh pursue a two-year contract? Why not just a one-year and then re-evaluate? >> Uh because you get better pricing um and based on where we are um not
010only with the high school project but the rest of the district. Um just the timing of of where the old agreement ended and where we are. Uh it it this really gives us the the better option. >> Okay, another question. Um is there anything in these contracts that provide for them to have to respond within a certain amount of time based upon priority of the problem? >> Um I I think in the contract they give like their their standard uh 24hour uh return uh call um to for their Ultimately, you're calling a a service, right? Their 24-hour service that handles all their accounts across the nation, and then that service gets it to the appropriate home office um in the local area for each one of accounts. >> Okay. I I'm not I'm not I'm
011just so dis enchanted, underwhelmed with their service across the board. And it's disappointing that you know because of their proprietary information methodology logic black box that you know our hands are tied. So I guess for me going forward when we actually do additional um or new contracts with this type of work scope um I'm assuming that we'll learn from I'm assuming that we won't do what we're doing with seammens that that black box or that unknown proprietary information would have a bit more specificity in a contract where if it is an urgent matter it wouldn't be a 24-hour turnaround that they would have to respond with a certain level of expertise in a much shorter period of time to to meet what you want. >> Yes, I would agree and I I can assure you
012that Mr. Slaughter and I are on the same page. Uh >> okay, >> it comes to that. Uh so uh right now, as I stated before, it's just kind of where we are. Um but I I can assure you that uh there are there are other options being explored in >> Okay. I get it and I understand it and thank you for answering all my questions. >> And just for and for broader context, this is a legacy system that goes back a decade or longer. I believe this is an FNO question. >> You are correct. >> Okay. So, I want to just make that clear. This has been an issue for I I know facilities and your department have have been looking at ways to solve this in the short to the long term and
013it's a significant uh investment at a time when um the district is making sure that it spends every dollar wisely. So, it sounds like this is is part of um ensuring we're at least able to maintain what we have um that you know without um having more sunken costs or or other constraints. So, thank you for that effort. Any other questions or comments regarding this uh action item? All right, hearing none. Uh the mo motion here is to move to uh the board action item, the seaman's service agreement for the 2-year uh service extension. Uh anyone want to make a motion? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Okay. And uh we did jump through the comments already, but hey, one more chance. Any more questions or comments anyway? All right, I can I can make
014that fast. Uh all those in favor um say I >> I >> raise your hands. >> And the motion passes unanimously. That brings us full circle to >> item number A. >> Dr. B. >> Thank you Mr. Casa and good evening again everyone. Um so Mrs. Fakish if you wouldn't mind pulling up the presentation itself or Mr. Ron I think that just said you're sharing your screen. Um, I do want to say that this is a pretty comprehensive presentation and u I do think a lot of the questions that may be asked might be answered later on in the presentation. So if anything on a specific slide requires um just clarification, please feel free to raise your hand. Um but maybe holistically, Mr. Casa, it might be best to wait till the end just in
015case it's content that was going to be covered. >> Let's wait let's wait till the end till the end everyone and just I got my notebook out. Um, I will we're learning after eight years. Dr. Ballard, I'll yield to that suggestion. And if I go off camera by any chance, I I'm I'm uh in a space at a convention center that if I have to move, I'm listening. I just might be moving my space. Thank you. >> Yeah, my pleasure. Um, so with that, I'm very pleased to be presenting with Mr. Ron this evening about a organizational shift potentially uh with our what is regularly or in common uh nomenclature our security department official title being uh office of emergency management and safe schools to a more uh comprehensive department of public safety. Uh so
016this is a conversation that has been going on with the board and the administration for years quite frankly and something we've discussed in an executive session multiple times. It is one of the topics that can be discussed in executive session because it's regarding school safety. U and it we've reached a point that the administration is recommending uh that we take this to a the full board for a discussion about whether or not we want to move move to a model uh for a department of public safety. So this evening our hope is to if we could go to the next slide please miss Mr. Coron uh to present a model of comprehensive public safety department that includes school police officers to best serve our students, staff, and community of the North Pen School District. And
017then so we're going to present that model and then make a recommendation to this committee for the reorganization of the department uh to be moved to a conversation with the full board. Next slide, please. So before we get started on really what a department of public safety could look like and what the role of school police looks like in North Penn, I do want to point out that first of all, I want to acknowledge the six municipalities that we work with and the collaboration that we have with them. Uh they are incredibly supportive of the school district. We meet with them on a regular basis. Uh Mr. Ran and I met with the police chiefs, all of them, last week. We meet several times throughout the school year and quite frankly every single time I
018pick up the phone and call one of them, they answer uh they text back, whatever it is that our partnership is truly what you would want to see between a school district and these municipalities with no exceptions quite frankly. Um so there are times where we'll present throughout this that there are some matters that we call them for out of formality or obligation that we definitely believe we could handle ourselves. Most of our not most, many of our security guards are retired or active police officers. Uh so they do have experience as police officers in our community or in an adjacent or nearby community as well. So this graphic that you're seeing before you, if we look at the circle graph to start, that says 143 police responses to incidents across last school year. So
019that is in our 18 buildings, 18 schools, excuse me. Um because we have more than buildings. Uh in our 18 schools, we had 143 calls for service where we reached out to the police for it could have been that someone fell. It could have been uh that we had a theft on at an event on a weekend. This does not necessarily mean student incidents, just means response to a phone call from the school district. On the left hand side, we have a couple examples of just patrols. So, our police departments have swipe access to our buildings and they are encouraged and regularly walk through our buildings. Uh they swipe in at the main entrance. They walk the hallways. I actually meet with student groups across the district twice a month and every single time I
020meet with them, I I asked some questions about school safety. And most recently, two weeks ago, I was at Gwynor and I asked the students, the fifth and sixth graders from Gwenor, um, do you see police here often? Yeah, all the time. Are they here for police business or are they here just walking the hallways? And the students spoke to them being in the cafeteria talking to kids, giving high fives, and just being present. Um, so we had conversations about that each and every time I meet with the students. But on the left hand side of this slide, you'll see a number of from some of our municipalities just saying how many times they just walked the building through a normal patrol, parked their car, got out of the car, walked through and saw students
021and staff. Uh so represented here is 500 times that police have been in our schools in the last calendar year 2425 academic year. Um, so it is reasonable to say that in 180 days of school, police are in our buildings multiple times a day. Uh, sometimes because we called them, more often it's because they're just doing patrols and they're just being great community partners. Next slide, please. So, right now, what you're seeing on this slide is really our emergency management and safe schools department led by Mr. Ran and the things that they are responsible for. Um, we have this very robust subcommittee, the safe schools committee, and we talk about these topics on a monthly basis. Uh, many school districts don't have a safe schools committee, but under Mr. Casa's leadership, we really have enhanced
022this structure, and we talk about student safety and staff safety every single month. Uh, but some of the things that Mr. Ran and his department are responsible for are access control, hence the previous agenda item, uh, with swipe access to our buildings and keys and all those things. emergency management, obviously, emergency preparedness, um, and procedures and documentation and all the permitting that's necessary for those things. Our parking services on all of our campuses, not just the high school, we have parking services at each building. Um, security and providing the staffing for events, not just during the school day, but evening events, weekend events, and so forth. We do behavioral threat assessments which are well documented through this committee and we have a collaborative partnership with our local law enforcement. Next slide please Mr. Ron. So
023um if we move to a model of public safety you'll see here in the red some of the changes. This does not mean that we would end our partnership with our local municipalities and all of us are on the same page that there are still going to be incidents where we need to call them. uh there could be significant investigations that we just don't have the capacity to handle. We could collaborate with if it's something at Penrook, we could be collaborating with Upper GwynD or even the county detectives. Um if it's at the high school, it could be Tmenson and county detectives. So really that partnership would still exist, but there are items that we can handle with the staffing that we have. So, of course, all the things I just listed and here we
024would have what is being proposed before you this evening are to have six sworn police officers, school police officers who are employed by the North Penn School District. These would be current staff members, people who are already on staff, already in our buildings, already know our students, have done our trainings, our professional development, all those things. So, we would have six, one at each secondary building and then two others, one being Mr. own and then the the role that currently roams around to elementary buildings and wherever is needed. Um the person kind of patrols the school district. Uh they would have the ability to issue citations instead of calling your local municipality for something simple like a theft. Um if there's a physical altercation and there needs to be issued a citation for whether it's
025disorderly conduct, we would have the capacity to do that now and not need to rely upon local police departments. Um, they'll have the ability to enforce a PA crime and vehicle code. So, if there are accidents in the parking lot, people are speeding on our campuses, we'll have the ability to handle that ourselves. Um, we can do vehicle accident reports for incidents that occur on our property, conduct our own investigations within our capacity, of course, and then our continued uh partnership with the local law enforcement agencies that I discussed. Next slide, please, Mr. Ran. All right, Mr. Ran, u, if you could take it away from here. Uh we are very fortunate to have Mr. Ran's expertise in the school district and he's actually worked in this model in a previous school district in a
026previous lifetime. Uh so no be no one better than Mr. Ran to kind of outline why and what this could look like. Thank you Mr. Ran. >> Thank you Dr. Bower. Appreciate that. Uh so so why a school police model? Um and you know some people are used to the term SRO versus SPO. Um and so as Dr. Bower explained, "A school police officer is a individual who is employed by the school district versus a school resource officer, which is a a municipal officer who is uh on loan to or assigned to a a district or a particular building. So why a school police model? Um it allows us to have consistency in our officers in the building, building relationships and responses, right? So um as Dr. Ber mentioned uh looking at individuals who are
027currently already on our staff um who have relationships uh who have understand our community and the building and the population and the things that go on there. Um it gives us consistency so that it it is a familiar face um with our students both in the time of having to do law enforcement work but also just throughout the dayto-day relationship building. Again, having an officer already there gives us the ability to immediately respond to incidents that need to be responded to and also gives us the ability to have direct communication between the district um and if there is a situation or case management. So if there's a particular situation and we need to have communication between the location and back to the ESC uh where a emergency operations center may be open and running, we
028have that direct line of of communication um with our own school police officers. Also there is a a benefit to be able to contain some costs. Um so oftent times when you have school resource officers, there's a contract. Um and typically you know like most other contracts when that contract comes to an end cost goes up to the further a renewal of that contract. Um and so understanding that, you know, we don't have that contract because they're they're already our employees and so they they maintain um whatever the uh approved pay scale pay rate is year-toear versus just, you know, a whether it be 6%, 8%, 9% uh whatever the um inflation cost for contract year-over-year would be. um doing a contract uh and again having uh personnel control there are there are district employees
029um so we have ultimate control of hiring training staffing all of those things are under one umbrella um that we are able to uh move pieces as we need to um and again as Dr. Ber mentioned um I am fortunate uh to have such highly qualified trained individuals already in in the space um that some have performed this work as a part of their their municipal work um but certainly the expertise that they bring to the table um in from their time in their previous employment. So the value right where where is where is the value for this type of model? Um again uh officers on the building right ensuring that safety and security and and people feel safe in the building. Uh you know Dr. Bower as he mentioned uh he goes and has
030meetings with students and and they often talk about you know how they how they feel safe and um all the things that that all the reasons why they feel safe and so we want we want to uh boost that a little bit more um with a school police model. It also gives us an opportunity to do some um educational programs. Right. So, u you know, we have some schools who are benefiting from DARE, um at our uh from our local police officers, but not all six of our municipalities have DARE, right? So, we have some schools who are getting it, some schools who are not. So, uh with our police officers, we would be able to um have that across the board uh to be able to provide that to some of our other schools
031who are not receiving uh that type of programming. You know, some other programming I think about at the high school level. We, you know, programming could things like driver's education. Um, you know, we could talk about the responsibilities of once, you know, the once you sign that for that driver's permit when you take that test and really nobody ever reads the book, right? And people don't really understand what um what it takes to to really operate on the road safely and legally. Um, and so we could provide some educational programming there. So, educational programming across the building. Um and we know again talking about you know police presence oftent times uh deters potential crime and threats. Um and so we we just want to provide the best uh environment we can for for our scholars
032to have an environment that's conducive to learning. Um and and I think more importantly or maybe most importantly on this list is right um our school police officers having a deeper understanding and knowledge of our students and our and our programs. Um, and you know, whether it be uh student uh in general ed, special ed, IEP, gifted, all of those programs and our athletes and and our um uh folks in arts, you know, whether it be music, drama, uh drawing, graphics, um right, just knowing knowing um the students as as our friend Dr. Hart would say, the people in your neighborhood, right? Um and so having having that person in the building uh on a daily basis that same person consistently really really really builds those strong bonds. Um and so as always anytime you
033do anything right especially at to this level right there there needs to be like what does our process look right right so there there would be policies and administrative regulations that also weave into training and professional development uh that also talks it goes into right an implementation um and and being supportive and providing those safe schools and ultimately annually we review and analyze that process right and that is a constant pathway way day over day, week over week, month over month, year over year, right? To make sure that we are we are providing the best service possible, right? And so that's certainly not a one onceanddone thing, right? Training is not a onceanddone thing. Professional development is not a onceanddone thing. And certainly policies and administrative regulations are not a onceanddone thing. So that that
034pathway of of excellence um would would certainly continue um which would ultimately put us on a path um for if this were to move forward about for accreditation um to to be one of the few uh to my knowledge there's still only one uh school police entity that has accreditation. Um and just for those who don't know, accreditation is a standard um that uh departments have to meet if they want to uh be accredited and accrediting uh does a lot of things for them, right? It uh helps with some funding. Um it also helps with um recordkeeping and all those kind of things. So, uh it is certainly a um something to strive for in the in the law enforcement space. Um, and this starts the the foundation of that, but that's that's for a
035much later conversation. So, how who how do we get this to happen, right? How do how would a school district get the authority to have police officers? Uh, and so ultimately the board would have to uh approve the such positions. uh and then ultimately uh the district would have to make application to the court of common please in Montgomery County to appoint such individuals to have that designation. Um and then there there's a process for that um to for filing the that petition and paperwork um for the court to approve that uh once the board says yes and then ultimately if that is the case what then authority can these officers do so Dr. Ber talked about that. So here's the legal jargon um uh straight from uh the uh law that allows the school
036district or any school district any school entity to do that. Right? So the district would ask the court to give us powers to give uh powers as are now and maybe they're exercised under authority of law and obedience by police of municipality where the school property is located. Um and so by doing that we are asking the court to give us the ability to um enforce the law, make arrests, carry firearms. Um and then from there the court's blessing, the court a judge says yes. Um and then we start a a process for that. So I'll pause there, Dr. Bower. >> Yes. I just wanted to offer uh Mr. Summers if you want to interject anything here on the legal side, please feel free. Uh anything that Mr. Ron or I missed? >> Sure. No,
037you you haven't missed anything and the only thing maybe to add is just um as with any petition to court, there is a process uh that is involved in that. Often times judges do want to hear from uh the potential police officers or actually see them before them in court. So it it can take a little bit of time, but um experience has been typically within about a month of a filing for a petition with the court um they'll hold the necessary hearings and um issue a decision on whether to grant the authority. Thank you, Mr. Summers. Um so that process then happens. Um and then if this is approved, right, kind of some uh just a few kind of high level standards in addition to all those things that are required um by law
038for for police officers and school police officers. Uh there will be a a standard exceeding that uh minimum standard from from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Um and so some of those things that would look uh that would happen in North Penn, we would continue deescalation training. I can tell you that um our our team currently goes through deescalation training. Uh we would continue that for our uh for sworn personnel. Um we'd also uh have uh some scenario-based training um as as a part of that. Uh we would also continue to have um special education training to make sure that uh our team understands and continues to understands as special ed laws change um and and how we we operate with with our students um to make sure that we don't miss anything. We don't we
039don't have any any training gaps, any loopholes. Um so we have two wonderful special ed directors um Dr. Balden, Dr. Kler. Um so we would continue to have that partnership with them to make sure that we are we are always receiving the latest and greatest greatest around special education knowledge also mental health training right um so it's we all know it is it is certainly a challenge um and you know not every violation of law is rooted in just pure neglect or intent. Uh sometimes it is certainly rooted in mental health. Um so right we continue to address that appropriately and uh to be able to address it obviously we need to be able to identify it pretty good right so uh having training and continue training we do that today and we will continue
040to do that um should if this model were to move forward uh the other thing that we would look to do is to have a psychological evaluation um that uh again it's a um a standard amongst law enforcement um to where to just make sure that everybody's in a good space uh to because it is certainly a a tremendous responsibility and I've counted it an honor and a privilege to be a part of uh the law enforcement community. Um but we want to make sure that um we we are all we're following a really good process. Uh and then certainly there are legal requirements uh mandated by law for legal updates um and things of that nature. So we would certainly have to comply with those requirements but also uh do legal updates uh for
041other areas. So uh for case in point often we have had uh Mr. summers in to do uh s student search legal updates, right? What what can we search? When can we search? Uh what are the rules and the parameters around those things? Uh so we would continue those uh legal updates. Uh our own in-house again require you know every year the state comes out what they say they want you to learn and know from legal updates. Um but we would go beyond those those standards uh to make sure that we are we are steps above what the the minimum requirements are. Um and then uh given the opportunity uh again there are there would be yearly firearms qualifications that are required by law. Um but we would again exceed those standards to make sure
042that our uh proficiency u is well above the minimum standard and and then also continue to have um training above that minimum standard requirement um to make sure that our officers are very proficient in handling um a firearm and the responsibility that comes with that. So what is the impact right there there are different um philosophies about uh school police officers or school resource officers. And so uh just some some quick kind of four uh points here to talk about right uh school police officers SRO really see themselves as more than just police officers. They they are a part of the community. Um, and and I will tell you from my own experience having having been in the role uh for a number of years, uh, you you really are a part of the school
043culture. You're a part of the school community. Um, you're a part of the district. Um, and and really uh oftent times like true true law enforcement um is is few and far between and is really kind of last resort um in when in that community, right? Um, it's really about point number two, right? It's really about fostering those relationships u with students, right? Students, you build that trust. Uh they know that they can come to you and talk to you uh in time of trouble. Um and if they get in trouble, right, more times than not, they're they're more uh inclined to be very upfront and honest with you um because of that relationship. Um you know, and there's been times where I've had students come to me and say, "Hey, you know, you may
044want to be in this hallway at on this given period of time uh because something might happen, right?" Or there have been times where I've had a missing juvenile um and I've gone to some students who I know and I said, "Listen, um you know, have you guys seen Jane Doe, John Doe? Um I needed to return home by 4 p.m. today. No questions asked." And it has happened, right? Um and that happens because of those relationships. Uh, also we've seen with well-trained um school police officers and school resource officers, there's actually been a reduction um in arrest um and and really taking away that school to prison pipeline stigma um because that's you know simply just not true uh across the board. Uh right. And so not every uh police officer uh certainly is
045the right fit to be a school resource officer or school police officer. Um, but those who really do the job the way it's intended and model the uh school resource or basic advance and proficient training really see a drastic reduction in in arrest, right? Um, and then again, there's all all kinds of opportunities to have programming to enhance school safety and security that students can be a part of. Um, and so it I've always appreciate our opportunity here at North Penn to have students as a part of the safe schools committee. Um, and I've worked with student groups uh, previously and I've um, talked to our our new committee members, Grace and and Thomas about some ways that they want to get involved um, you know, in conjunction with monthly meetings, but uh, what can
046we do um, on a weekly or daily basis inside the high school uh, to to help foster those programs and enhance that that school safety? So um what could uh an accelerated timeline look like for a for a process such as this? Uh so we are starting here in September with the safe schools committee with this presentation. Should this presentation move forward, there could be a presentation to the full board in October. Um, and if there is an approval in October, there would could be there could be a policy committee presentation for what the policy within North Pin School District for school police officers would look like. Um, and then all kinds of process and paperwork and all those things. Mr. Summer talked about the petition for the court and all of those things start
047to can start to be put in motion. Um and we could potentially uh have a deployment um as early as January, February of 2026. Um that's a again accelerated timeline. Um there are a number of things that could swing dates one way or the other um should this move uh should this be approved in October. Um but that's that's kind of a a fast track um as to um how soon we could we could see uh North Penn School District police officers Um and as finally we wrap up with um what what expense does this look like to the North Penn school district? So the cost to transition five security officers to armed school police officers is approximately $250,400. Um this includes uh salary adjustment for a stipen for those officers. Um and then equipment.
048There are some opportunities out there through PCCD and um the BGA grants to help reduce some of that cost. Um currently there are no grants for uh actual uh new hires, but certainly money out there for um equipment cost to help uh help cover some cost. Um and then there is uh some monies that were that I could defer to this expense um out of the out of my current 2526 uh budget. So um we will put a pen in the parking lot there and pause um and take any questions. Dr. Bower. >> Yeah. Um one thing that I failed to mention and thank you for all of that Mr. Ran and I do want to emphasize um please you are all welcome to ask all the questions you want. Um, if there are questions
049that we will repeat in front of the full board, um, feel free to ask it now or wait. And if this does eventually move uh to the full board, but one thing I did want to point out, and I did get permission to share, um, I don't usually talk about neighboring school districts. I usually say neighboring districts or one of our neighbors u because I just don't think it's appropriate to call them out by name, but I did seek permission from my colleagues um, at North Monco. So, North Monco Technical Career Center serves students from North Penn, Serverton, Perk Valley, Whisah Hicken, and Mthactton. Uh, so if you count the five school districts and North Monco, that is six institutions, if you will. Um, all four of the other districts have their version of school
050police officers, as does North Monco. 47% over 47% of the students at North Monco are North Penn students. Um so just some context there that the other four districts who send students to North Monco do have school police as does North Monco. Uh additionally, Mr. Ran did collect plenty of data from locally around the county and 16 out of the 22 school districts in Montgomery County also have their own versions of school police. Um, so just some local data just to get some perspective. Um, very locally, North Penn is the only school district that does not have school police in their schools. Um, and then if we look across the broader county, it's 16 out of 22 school districts that do not that do, excuse me. Um, so with all of that, I I think
051Mr. Ron, the one question, and I think you kind of hit on it, but um I was talking to some staff today actually about this that we were presenting this tonight, and one uh teacher asked me, would the sworn school police officers be required to complete all the training and certifications that a regular municipal police officer would have to complete? >> Yes, that is correct. >> Okay, great. I know you mentioned specific trainings, but I just want to see is it same expectations if they're North Pen employees and if they are Montgomery Township police officers. >> That is correct. >> Okay. >> And and I think for context and then uh I know President McMerry already has a hand raised. And for any other committee members, please raise your hands and and we'll go on
052order um as we see. Um but for that context, the that that would be the minimum u and I think Mr. Ran outlined um and Dr. bower some of the additional standards of what it means to be a SPO, a school police officer. Um, so just want to make sure that the community understands that and Dr. Bower, thank you for that the factual information. I want to make sure for context purposes for the community as well as the board, unless I am misinterpreting this, you're sharing that information not as a reason for North Penn to perhaps move this towards action and SPO program, but simplyformational about what other districts around us have. >> Uh, and uh, President Mc Merry, floor is yours. >> Thank you, Mr. Thank you uh Dr. Bower and Mr. Ron. Um
053candidly we this is a very um deliberate thoughtful um datadriven presentation. So I learned a lot and have been part of the discussion to this point in time. Um I wanted to ask though Mr. Rune if it assuming this does move forward um the is scheduled um for implementation full implementation does feel accelerated to me and so when you uh bring this potentially to work session the policies that need to be revised um how I mean again a lot of this is going to have to be thought about how will that work that particular part. I mean the judge and the courts, you know, I don't know if if if Mr. Summers can weigh in. I'm looking at the time of the year that this is going to happen. You know, it's it's all kinds
054of holidays. So, is that realistic with those two major components? >> Yeah, great question. And I do think we could have accentuated a little better. Mr. did the heading of that uh slide was accelerated timeline. I think that is maybe a better phrase would be extremely aggressive timeline. Um if if you asked us to put the pedal downstick >> Yeah. Um I think it'll take time. So if this moves forward to the full board, the recommendation uh would read something like authorize the administration to take all the necessary steps to implement a comprehensive public safety model. Um and all of those things would have to go into place. Policies adopted, first read adopted, um obviously petition the court, there would have to be uniforms ordered, the equipment that Mr. Ran talked about, the training, the
055certification. So I do think a January start um is aggressive. I think Mr. Ran and I when talking to the police chiefs, we said sometime in the spring. >> Okay. All right, that's fair. Um and then so what I would offer is that when this eventually potentially comes back to the work to work session to the full board that um not every little detail Dr. power like when the uniforms are ordered and those types of things. Although, you know, I would love to see that that there be some type of um project schedule put together um where you know the list of policies, first read, second read um submittal to whatever judicial court system so we can see when it when things are happening and and the board would be able to prepare and respond
056as needed. Please Yeah. Um, great suggestion and I think rather than just regurgitate the same presentation to the full board, we would certainly have the same primary components. We could add that level of detail uh for the full board. Should this go before you in October, I think it's October 14th or November, whatever the board decides, Mr. Ron and I will be ready. >> Okay. And and the other piece too is we are aware that we do transparent here. We have board members that will be ending their term and new board members will be coming on. And so with that said, I think that we would want to um possibly present this Dr. Bower, but then provide a bit more details in case this does move till after our present board members their terms have
057expired. >> Understood. No problem. Thank you, President McMerry. >> Any further uh comments or questions from the committee? Miss Rnik. >> Yeah. Um thank you, Doc. Uh Mr. Rome, apologies to everyone listening. I'm not feeling well. So, um I'm going to try to get through a couple of my questions. Um I'll save the rest for the full board. Um so I'm I'm trying to understand the let's say the decision is to proceed after we've gone ahead and um presented to the board and I understand that there's an annual assessment. I think you said there's an annual review and analyze. I'm not quite sure what that means yet. Um is there a pathway to exiting this decision? Um a year, two years, you know, we reviewed the data and we see that it's not working out
058for us. >> Yes. Um one of the things that Mr. Ran outlined which is very purposeful is the six individuals would be taking on essentially an extra duty role. Um, so they would be taking on an additional extra duty contract to serve in this capacity on top of their current space. So we we are as Mr. Ran said on the one slide like having the control and the flexibility. If this is not successful for us, we would absolutely I think you used the phrase exit strategy. Yes. Um, if we had a contract with another organization, that might not be as possible. >> Okay. All right. So there there would be some sort of exit strategy and I'd like to understand what metrics we'd be using to determine that later on. Um I think that Mr.
059Sz mentioned that there's a possibility when we go to the courts that the judge might want to meet the you know six officers right but that's current state. So, a year from now, two officers retire. We bring in two new officers. I want to make sure I understand that process of the two new officers. I'm assuming the court may not be interested in meeting them, but we have to make sure that they also stand the test of, you know, amicable um empathetic whatever the criteria is of of people that we officers that we want at North Pen. I can um respond to that just in terms of um the court approval is for the individual um as opposed to the position of school police officer. So it's it's the actual person who the court the
060school district needs to ask the court to appoint the the particular individual and we would present that individual's qualifications to the court. So certainly um if there were an initial set of school police officers who were all approved and there are retirements or resignations, any additional officers, we would need to petition the court for those specific individuals to be approved before they could um begin acting as school police. >> Okay. All right. I think this would be my last one. Um financials you mentioned that we expect 250,400 annually. Um I'm assuming yeah you said annually so that's going forward that it would be on additive to what we see in your budget. So that is not uh annual. There would be an annual adjustment for those individuals, but the majority of these financial listings here
061are startup costs. So for equipment to uh set up the vehicles properly, those types of things. Um but I'll I'll take a note here additional slide in the presentation to the full board with that level of detail. >> Yeah. Yes, please. Um and if indeed it's accelerated which I don't recommend the comment Mr. Ran made was that you know to cover the cost we would be there would be you know opportunities from other line items to cover the cost. You know, I would like again not for today. If that is indeed the case, I would like to understand what Peter were using to pay Paul. >> Okay. >> Yep. Absolutely. And Mrs. Rnik, thank you uh for hanging in there with us. I hope you feel better. >> And thank you u Miss Rnik. And
062first students um you're not required or obligated, but this is a chance to provide any feedback, ask questions on this topic, but also know um that you may have realized that in our agenda there's always an opportunity for other business and that's a chance for you to to you know raise up any issues or questions regarding the purview of this committee um not just to this topic. So, just wanted to give you that that fair warning and and some space. Um, uh, do our students have any comments or questions on the on this topic before us? >> Go ahead. >> Um, I'd just like to touch on the number one, the security part, which is just like a personal observation. I'm also a student at North Monco. Um, I'm a part of the allied health
063program, although I spend most of my time at Jefferson Landdale Hospital instead. Um, but in the few times that I have been to North Monco Co, the difference between security, it really strikes me um as a very large contrast. Um, because when you walk into Northpen High School, our security guards are very welcoming. Um, and they're more friendly in nature. Um, the ones at North Monco are more security guard, more police is basically what I'm trying to say. They are very um they're very skeptical of who they let in the building even if you are a student. So even trying to get in the building or out of the building um seems like a security guard is always watching you, that kind of thing. Not that the security guards at North High School don't watch
064you, just that the ones at North Panco are a lot more strict, I feel. Um another topic I would also like to talk touch on was about the mental health thing that um Mr. and I have also previously talked about, but I'm currently a part of an ongoing project for the Montgomery County Mental Health Committee, um, which is run by, I think, part of the Jehoshen Center. >> Yeah, >> forgive me if I pronounced that wrong. Um, but I'm also part of that right now. And that is an ongoing project that I hope to further integrate into this committee um, and into Northwind High School in the future months. >> That's wonderful. I was just getting an update from one of the members of that committee. Thank you doc Dr. Bower, Dr. Waters. I I
065think maybe Dr. Hart had some involvement as well looking at data. So that's that what a great addition. Um sorry Dr. Bower, were you just answering? >> No, I I appreciate Grace's perspective on both topics and excited to have that be an agenda item in the future. Um, I will say that I agree with Grace how um friendly and approachable our security staff is and unequivocally without exception when I go to the buildings and talk to the kids in these groups of 10 to 15. At the high school it's a few more than that but when I'm at the middle schools they are always so complimentary of Mr. Ran and his staff. Um, and that's part of the thinking here like we get to pick the people. Uh, and these people know our students and
066they interact with them on a daily basis. Um, we're very appreciative of the services from all of the municipalities as I said, but we don't pick who comes through our door. Um, and in this model, it is our people um, who know our kids and work with them every single day. U, so that's I agree with you. Um, and thank you for that, President McMerry. >> Thanks, Dr. Bower. I wanted to ask if it would be okay to invite Grace and Thomas to the work session if if they can if they have the ability because this topic will continue and possibly come back to safe schools and they're providing their input and they will see it in the future. So I just think for not just necessarily transpar transparency but for continuation of understanding if
067if that's something that can happen, I would like to invite them, but you let me know if that's um appropriate. >> Absolutely. Uh so let's see where the the motion itself goes and if it's at October, I'll certainly send the date to them and we can call them to the podium to, you know, get their feedback then as well. Go ahead, Thomas. >> This isn't necessarily a question, but it's more of a a statement. Um I also go to North Monaco. I'm in the protective services program and we will have people come in and most of them have been SPOS's over the course of their career and they explain that it's not as though they're like a different subject than the security guards but they al they like work together and that's what I feel
068like North Penn would definitely benefit from because I've seen at the football games and most of the sporting events just the officer presence alone is like it's it works. You can tell it works. Kids, they they calm down. They they stay where they're supposed to be and then everything just just works for how it's supposed to be. Um and also like Grace said, security guard is very friendly at North Penn and uh the security at North Monaco is a lot more I wouldn't say strict, but it's a lot more confined. And having that at North Penn would definitely, I would feel like, benefit the school, allowing certain people to come in because it would lessen the harm and also lessen the risk of anything happening. >> Thank you, Thomas. Great, great feedback as well. I
069didn't realize you're in protective services. That's great. >> Yeah. Um, thank you um very much for our student representatives. That's helpful. Um, and Thomas, by by the way, also I'm at the global security exchange right now. It's an international conference and specifically um they have a stage specifically set up for um thought leadership and and school safety and there's some new standards that ASIS has released. So, I have some friends on that committee. Um but always um it's glad to hear um what both of you as our students and our representatives bring to this. Thank you so much. looking forward to to more insights and comments and uh what you continue to do even outside this committee. Um so we'll definitely want to move on for the the sake of time. I appreciate the uh
070you know the cander and the diligence. This the goal the entire time that we've had many executive committee sessions has been let's elevate the dialogue. Let's put facts um independent objective data out there when we can and that's what decisions should be made about. That is what the community should be able to discuss um and so that we come to a consensus. Um today what's before us is simply to put this the action item. The motion would be to put this conversation and a much wider session before the entire board. Only at that point would any action be taken perhaps in either direction. But this motion is simply to have that wider discussion. Do we have a motion for uh for this action? >> So moved. >> Is there a second? >> Second. >> Are
071there any other comments or questions from the committee before vote? >> Hearing none. All those in favor raise your hand or say I. I >> I >> right. It is unanimous and the motion passes. I look forward to seeing this presentation and um also I um sharing with the community some of the questions that we have um that that we'll ask um to also be included such as the human uh the HR component, the sustainability beyond the employees that we have now and some other details that will answer questions that maybe we're not even aware of yet. The point is now for the community to be able to share their thoughts, have that input from all stakeholders so that this process of your elected representatives in this district um can reflect um what the board
072members um in any decisions feel is is at least what a consensus and a majority of the community um uh feels that this district should have for a program. So, thank you very much for that hard work and for those people who joining us or seeing this later, uh we definitely want to open up uh public comment for anyone who is in the virtual waiting room at this moment. Miss Fakish, do we have anyone with their hands raised? >> We do. Sorry, I had to get back. I was getting something ready. >> Sorry about that. >> We do. No, it's me. I can never find when I click off. Yes, we do. >> Okay. with with with that um let's uh let's hear from our community. >> Are you do you have anything to read?
073>> Oh yeah, that whole disclaimer thing. Um I I'll tell you what, probably uh Mr. Laneir and some others could probably um say it better than my uh memory at this point. Thank you. Um no senioritis here from this board director. Um here are the guidelines. Individuals attending this meeting and intending to speak to the committee should be aware that they are being recorded. In order to meet the requirements of Pennsylvania sunshine law, it is necessary to record the names of all citizens who speak to the committee during the meeting. To assure compliance with this requirement is essential that those planning to address the committee raise their hand electronically and state their name and municipality. As a reminder, the public comment portion of the meeting is designed for residents and taxpayers of the district to
074provide comment and feedback on matters being discussed at tonight's meeting or matters that may come before the safe schools committee. It is not designed for debate or discussion with members of the committee. When appropriate, committee members may choose to respond to public comments that have been made or request that a member of the administration follow up with the speakers after the meeting. Members of the audience are asked to limit their questions and comments to three minutes. This is in reference to board policy number 903 uh revised in February 2022. Okay, Miss Fish. >> Um our first public comment is Christine Coin. Um Miss Coin, when I allow you to talk, please state your name and your municipality for the board. You may begin. Hi. Um, this is Christine Coin. I'm from Hatfield. Um, and I
075I'm aware that, uh, I'll stick to my my minutes. Um, but I wanted to say to Grace, I also participate with um, Jaison Center, and I'm familiar with the committee that you participated in, and I just really respect a lot of the vulnerability and hard work that you did with um, with the with that committee and the other students. Um, I do want to say, uh, I'm thankful for the compelling presentation that Mr. Ran presented. Um, and especially given my participation with the safe schools committee, um, it did give a fresh perspective. Um, whereas I, you know, still there's concern as a parent, um, uh, having, you know, armed police officers in the in the schools. However, um it's something that I'm willing to learn more about um and ensure that my children feel safe
076in school as I I don't know if this is going to the work session. I I just things that I that stuck out to me were um the thoughts about h how the the staff was feeling about this potential program and what what their feedback has been and what their requests have been. Um, and and this is my own lack of understanding and knowledge, but with the citations, I guess, are they criminal? Um, and would those potential citations that are given by these police officers stay on a student's permanent record? Um, and is there any qualifications that these police officers in the schools need uh like a teaching degree or even an admin certification to make it relevant to being around and fostering in a positive educational um atmosphere. Um, and also I I just
077wanted to ask uh I think last time and if it's already out there, I apologize, but I think I I asked last time about an Alice training frequently asked questions document if that was created or in the process of creation or if it's already out there um and if someone could direct me to it. Uh but thank you. >> Thank you. We'll wait till the end um to try to knock out uh knock down some of the easier questions and and guide some of the others. Thank you. Uh we have one more uh community member uh Jason Laneir when actually we have uh two more. Um Mr. Laneir when I unmute your mic you may be state your name and municipality for the board. >> Uh Jason Lir Lansdale. Um I'm you know fresh off
078I like I like this idea. This makes a lot of sense to me, but I'm I'm a little bit uh I'm a little bit torn between the pro side and the con side on this. And I think some of the cons could be alleviated, but there's a lot more detail that needs to be uh put forth. Uh but the idea of having armed security guards makes a lot of sense to me. Um I think that uh like one of uh the student rep said, uh there's sort of a different seriousness that comes with with uh with the police officer. I think I think kids react in a different way. So that I think that's all very beneficial. That that's that's excellent. I almost wonder if six is enough in that case, whether or not it
079might be better to have an armed officer in every school. Um that being said, I do have some questions regarding costing and liability and these sorts of things. I understand the 250,000 to start up the program, but the ongoing cost is got to be much more than that. Uh I would think and do these officers then fall under are they working exclusively for the school district and therefore there's going to be different insurance qualifications and things. All these things I think need to be be sort of flusted out and figure out what the real true um liability uh insurance wise and and and costwise is going to be on an annual basis. Um I am also a little bit concerned if something should happen sort of the the chain and command of of disclosing that
080information publicly and I know when you're talking about minor kids that that a lot of that stuff is is protected. However, the overall incident not being fully disclosed as if it were in in the formal uh law legal system. Um and I I kind of you know for example the the whole thing with pen the the pen book incidents there was not a good level of disclosure and that whole thing seemed to be uh presented in a way to limit understanding of what actually went on there and uh I I so that that I would be a little bit concerned if there's a municipality that is actually ultimately callable on uh on behalf of these these these officers, then then maybe that that's alleviated. Um and it sounds like I'm putting doubt in the the
081the the credibility of the officer. That's not my intention. It's just sort of sort of what happens I think to large uh um entities is that there seems to be sort of a process that gets gets turned out as opposed to following the stated intended goal of a lot of the uh the rules and regulations and uh I'll leave it there for now. Thank you. >> Thank you. Um are there any other commenters? Miss Fish? >> Yes. Um, Aaron Blancc, when I unmute your mic, please state your name and your municipality for the board. Hello, this is Aaron Blancc. I live in Hatfield and um, I really appreciate this meeting and presentation. I've been looking at this topic for a while now and seeing that the school districts around us were adopting um, SPOS's or
082SRO's. So, I appreciate this. Um, you did answer I was questioning the SPO versus SRO and I think some of my questions about why this model was chosen were answered. Um, I do have a question and well, you know, I'll have lots more questions, but I'll save a couple for later. Um, I do wonder right now about the process for um, you said it would be like an extra duty for the personnel who are taking this on. So, how exactly is that going to work? I understand you mentioned retired police officers. Um, I guess my thoughts are, you know, retired means they're older possibly. Um, are they all interested? Do we actually have a pool of five or six interested officers at this moment? Um, and you know, how is that going to work to
083add this extra duty to their time at North Penn when they already may be coming up in age? Um, and then if we go through the training with them, how long will they be in that position before we need to replace them? Um, and I was also wondering, are you going do you plan to hold some kind of community forum like you've done at other times um to introduce this and answer questions on a large scale? And then I guess my last question right now is just um I think I heard a little mention, but have you been speaking with staff and students? I'm assuming staff obviously with the union, but you know what, um what has gone on so far? this won't be a surprise to them, I'm assuming. So, just some curiosities right
084now and um I appreciate you talking about this. Thank you. >> Thank you. Appreciate the questions. We have a a good long list um that that seems like it's already going to generate another type of FAQ. Any other commenters? Miss Fish? >> That is all. Um, so we have limited time and I I would like from the administration I've written down a number of questions that I I want to make sure this informs that community conversation. Um, Dr. Bower and Mr. Ran, anyone from the administration feel free to weigh in if there's some quick answers now. Yes. >> But I I I do feel that there may or may not be a forum right now. The forum is safe schools committees, work sessions, and board meetings. and lots of FAQs, videos, and information that will
085um that will be presented and available as always. Um if needed, we can talk about a forum, but that that's at least from this chair. That's my one answer. Dr. Bower. >> Yes. Uh thank you, Mr. Casa. Happy to weigh in on all of this. Um really good questions and thank you for the engagement, everyone who spoke up. Uh first to Miss Coin's questions. Uh she did ask about citations. Yeah. Um sometimes uh citations are on a student's record. Uh whether or not that gets expuned uh when they turn 18. Uh it depends on the violation itself. We have implemented a youth aid panel for that purpose to get certain incidents um expuned from records and so that the students don't have the permanent record. But there some are some infractions in schools that are
086uh worthy of remaining on a permanent record depending on the severity of them. Not many uh but definitely some over the years. Um next question she asked was regarding the Alice FAQ and that document has been prepared. We're actually doing some lockdown drills coming up here very soon and uh when we communicate with families about those incidents uh we will point everyone to the the document itself and where it's posted and then share it in that communication. Um Mr. Laneir offered some good thoughts and I appreciate the fact that he said I'm not trying to cast doubt. Uh actually far from it. Um he just asked questions about insurance costs and some of the specifics about the model. The good thing is that we certainly have colleagues across the county and locally and across the
087state and nation uh who have this model and questions that can be answered. Uh we do have a draftou. We have drafted procedures that Mr. Ran has been working on. All those documents will be shared in due time as Mr. Casa said. Um I do want to stress that Mr. Laneir used the vernacular of armed security guard. These would be sworn police officers. They would actually be police officers uh not security guards. and uh to Mrs. Blanc's questions and her appreciation for us having this commu this conversation publicly. Thank you for that acknowledgement. Um she is someone who's been advocating for this for years. Um she pointed to the fact that some of them might be retired. Uh an example here is Mr. Ran is a retired police officer. Uh right. So and I believe
088Mr. Ran is in his early 40s. So, um, yes, some have retired at younger ages, some are older, but we would would have the opportunity to just pick the best fit for our students and staff. Um, so we're excited about the staff that does exist. Many of them are retired or current police officers. Uh, I can think of a couple who are serving right now in in another capacity. You can't be a police officer, I don't believe, for two municipalities at the same time. So you couldn't be a school police officer for us and for example be an officer in McGomery Township. Um so just some but all these questions are great questions. Thank you for the engagement. Feel free to email them. Um we will move as we voted to move this forward to
089a work session. Uh the recommendation did say October. Mrs. McMerry and I set the agendas. So assuming October works for the full board, it'll be on that agenda. If it needs to wait till November, it'll be on that agenda. Whatever works for the board. As I said, Mr. Ron and I will be ready. So, thank you, Mr. Casa. I know we're right up against that 7 o'clock FNO meeting. I do see President Mc Merry's hand up. >> Thanks, Dr. Bower. Um, I want to circle back with Ms. Blancc's um thought about a forum. Um, I do think that some type of form and I understand the students know the security guards, they know all them, but I think the opportunity for families and such to come together um to just gather would be something that
090I would welcome. We'll see what the rest of the board says, but I think it's a really good point that I'd like the the district, the administration to discuss and see how how to frame that and what that would look like, please. >> Thank you, President Mc Merry. >> Yes, thank you, President Mc Merry. And uh certainly that's we want to increase u as much impact input, feedback, and information as possible. and uh should a forum or other maybe it's smaller individual ways that that information is out to the community. We want to make sure that we have quality interactions and the ability to share information um and and uh remain focused on the task at hand. Ultimately this is before us and why it's going to go to work session is because if we
091do this we want to do it right and the way to do it right is for the community to have input and for the board to have oversight and to set the higher expectations that matter. So um you may be retired, you may be just out of the academy, but you know what? There are going to be certain physical qualifications, mental the accreditation. This is the opportunity for the community to have input so the board if it decides to go forward can set what the roadmap is for us to continue that conversation, the on-ramps as well as the off-ramps as Ms. Rdnick had brought up. So thank you everyone for being a part of this. Is there any other business that we missed that needs to be mentioned? Dr. Bower rarely answers for everyone, but
092I see him shaking his head. It is past 7:00 Eastern time, not my time, but um I appreciate everyone's input and participation. Thank you. And the next meeting will be what's our date? October 27th, 2025 virtually at 5:45 p.m. Thank you, everyone. Have a great night. Thank you for