001I think it's I think it's secret Miss Mc Merry, do you copy? >> Yes, I copy, Dr. Bower. Thank you. >> Got it. Thank you. >> All right. >> And I just saw Alicia. [Music] Okay, good evening everyone. We're going to go ahead and call this meeting to order. So, we will this is um our >> September finance committee meeting. Um I cannot believe what month it is already. Um but we'll go ahead and start with the pledge of allegiance. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Cathy's virtual. >> Okay, just a quick announcement to let everyone know that um Mrs. Mc Merry is on um and joining us virtually. Okay.
002So, to start our meeting off, do I have a motion and a second to approve our minutes from our August 5th meeting? >> So, moved. Second. >> Motion by Dr. G, seconded by Mrs. Stole. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Motion carries. Okay, we have some items on our agenda this evening for recommendation for work session or action. And I believe I'm going to turn this over to Miss Hower. Hi. Thank you. Um, so I'm going to take A and B, uh, 3A and 3B together. So what we are asking for tonight is just the permission to go out for RFP, to advertise for the RFP, and to go out for RFP. Um, we want to do a complete um up-to-date demographic study, which would include enrollment information going forward.
003Um, as well as uh a facility condition study for all of the for all of our facilities, grounds, um, with excluding the high school. Um we would be looking at some structures within the stadium complex um just because some of them are it's time it's over been over 10 years for some aspects of them but for the most part um it would be concentrating on the middle schools the elementary schools and then the three out buildings the service center the ESC here I guess two out buildings >> and you kind of alluded to this but the last time that we did a comprehensive review was about 10 years ago but we did do a partial one preparing for the high school renovation correct >> I want to say The full one was longer than 10
004>> 2001 I believe was the last full district facility study. Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, >> okay. >> So, um so this would be this is the to go out for RFP. We would be working on the RFPs over the next week or so. Try to get them on the street um by the towards the end of this month. Uh probably with like a two-month turnaround is what we were hoping. So, we would have something to bring back in November. I was going to mention um one of the studies that you could be thinking of was there was a a fields study years ago by Archetera. Uh Mrs. Stole, I'm sure you remember that one. I do. >> Um I think I remember sitting in the audience with you for that presentation. Um and then
005we also had a study done by Shrader Group on our secondary schools, the middle schools and the high school facility studies there and of course Crawford Stadium, but we have not done the full district >> comprehensive. I I would add the detail to that is we haven't done the full objective independent study with that type of methodology by an outside firm. um even when I believe it was director Kennedy at the time uh years ago that's where the baseline internal assessment was done which you know really created what we see today in the uh facilities and operations capital improvement plan. So just to make it clear that's where the multiple layers come together for the decision-m process. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Since we paid for and did the facility study though for the high school
006and the middle schools, do we need to do the high school and the middle schools or could we just do the elementary schools? >> We would not be doing the high school. We would be going back and looking at some aspects of the mil of the middle schools. I started to say military schools of the middle schools. Um and we can take that study and they would have access to that study to see if it's still applicable. Um I don't know. Uh, so I I I think there's enough at all three buildings that it would behoove us to go back and take a look at everything together because one of the things that we're going to ask them to do as part of this RFP is not just give us the condition of the building,
007but to lay out like a 10 and 15 year plan for staging of when they would recommend overlapping projects, which ones are more critical than others, and and really looking at the scaling on how we want to so we can budget better for the next 10, 15 years. So, it would also need to take into th those those components into into effect. >> What's the average cost of something like >> we're probably looking somewhere in the 150 to 200,000 range to do the entire both studies together. >> So, is this something we would need to budget for for next year? You're saying that you want to do it now? You want to go out for RFP now? And where would that correct coming from since we didn't budget for it this year? I think there's
008m the the cap the fund 30 can there's money in the capital reserve that could cover that. Um and I think it's critical before we budget for next year. So because we are talking about going out for bond again in the next school year um as part of the of the high school renovation and I think it would be um beneficial to have those numbers as if we can get them in time for budget. I mean budget starts in um towards the end of November, beginning of December, but we have a few months that we could look at the capital planning as well. >> Mrs. Ramage, can you hear me? >> Yes. Go ahead. >> So, I wanted to ask I do have a few questions, but I didn't know whether you wanted to u
009move forward with the motion and then the discussion. What do you want me to ask now? >> Um you you caught me on that. So, on that procedural issue, so thank you very much. I'm trying to catch you. I mean it. I just No. Um it's virtual so I'm I'm struggling, you know. >> No, no, no. You I appreciate your help. So, we'll go ahead and do do and do we want us to vote on these separate because you we're presenting on them together. >> Um I'm going to do two separate RFPs, but I think you could take them together. >> Can we do the motion together? Okay. >> And I do think before we uh go any further, I do think it's important this is just approval to go to RFP to find out
010how much will it cost. Um, so if we don't like those costs when they come back, obviously we could go back to the drawing board, but just to get more information about how much to actually answer Dr. G's question. How much would this actually cost? >> So, we'll do um I'm going to take a motion and a second and we'll move um then to questions. So, do we have um approval to adverti advertise for a request for proposals for a demographic study and for a district facilities condition study to include all middle and elementary schools, district offices, stadium, and grounds? Do I have a motion? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Mot motion by Mr. Casa, seconded by Mr. Rash, and then do we have any questions? Mrs. Mc Merry? >> If there are others,
011I'll wait. >> I I do have a question. >> I think Okay, go ahead. We'll go with uh Mr. ration then to you. >> So, so, so what we're hoping to get out of the uh second study is we're hoping to get a a capital spending plan or update our capital spending plan. Yeah. >> And so we know what buildings we're going to work on after we work on the high school. >> A recommendation. Yeah. >> A recommendation. Y initiative. Will this also affect the maintenance uh budget uh the maintenance plan that we have in place at this point in time? >> I think it would assist that. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Yep. Mr. Hi. >> Yep. Go ahead. >> Hi, Mrs. Her. I have a couple of questions um regarding specifically
012um what is it? 2B. Will any of the details of the RFP come before facilities and operations committee for further um detail or not at all? >> Before we issue the RFP? >> Yeah. Um, I hadn't originally intended to do so, but we could. >> The where I'm going with this, um, is the scope of it. Um, and I know the well, I don't really don't know the other one that well. I'm just wondering if we're going to include any type of let's say um analysis like ultra you know ultrasonic testing or things like that that would act not that would actually enhance what we're doing or guess I'd like to understand the scope a bit more the in the level of um the level of analysis that will be used to do this. >>
013Um why don't that's an interesting question. um why don't you let me we we can talk we can have that conversation and see if we need um if we want to bring it to facilities and and we'd need to put together some RFPs to sample um to to get your opinion. Yeah. >> Well, I mean I would defer to to Mr. Slaughter. I'm just interested to know because I totally support the effort and the analysis um particularly since it will refine and hopefully make more accurate the long-term capital project plan. Just curious about what we'll do and you know the cost benefit of it. That's all. So >> understood. >> All right. Thank you. I'm good. Thanks Mrs. >> So clarifying question please. Uh so I was at a similar spot as Dr. G just
014trying to understand um the scope and the reasons why we have to you know do the middle elementary the offices the stadium and the grounds. So when we go to RFP is there um will there be an appetite that we are given a split look? So for instance, let me maybe I should clarify. For instance, if you do middle, elementary, and grounds, it's this. If you do all of it, it's that. I think the one that's caught me a little bit is the stadium. Uh I know I wasn't in in the seat um when we did the stadium, but just trying to understand why we would need to do the stadium. >> Good evening everyone. Uh so with the stadium the buildings are fairly new but uh remember the home bleachers were existing and all
015we did is modify them for handicap access. So I think there needs to be an evaluation of the structural uh forming of the of the bleachers in the stadium. Uh the ones on the visitor side are new. So you know we would take bits and pieces of the stadium not necessarily the whole the whole thing. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. So, but my my question still stands in in that would the RFP be one that um the we ask for if all inclusive X and if it's three out of four or three out of five um why why >> I'm sorry. So, this is just to review the status and the condition of the building. So not check the condition of certain buildings but do check the condition offer to only do conditions of some
016buildings but not others. This isn't actually this isn't to to do the work or correct. Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. So it's not to do the work. >> No, this is just to tell us where our deficiencies are and and to basically score our buildings and which ones need critical attention, which ones can wait five years, which ones need it last year. >> Understood. And and that's really important work. So, it's going to cost us potentially approximately $150,000 for the knowledge, which is important. >> Correct. >> And so, my question really is that is there a world where we're not asking for can the RFP be done such that they give us if we do the work for all that you're asking for for 100% it's going to be X. And if we do it for
01760%, yeah, it's going to be why. >> Yeah, we we absolutely I mean we could write the RFP that way. I would >> caution that I think it's critical to get a point in time view of all of your facilities that need it at the same time. >> So you have that planning mechanism in place. Um because this is really it a it's about finding out the condition of our buildings, but b it's also about being able to plan. Um, so you kind of want to have that point in time look in order to schedule the to really schedule it out and sketch it out and look at what you're going to need over the next 10 to 15 years. And if you piece meal it, we're going to come in and what may not
018have been critical now could be critical in five years and that your plan is didn't take that into consideration before. And >> um I I think that's kind of where we are with having done secondary but not elementary and now we have to go back and look at elementary. So, um, you know, and they and they may not need to do as much work at the middle school level because we did have the original assessment done, but I think even that now is six years old. >> That was 2018 that that was done by Shrader Group. Yeah. >> Right. >> So, we're now >> seven years down the road, >> right? >> Yeah. >> So, significant things could have occurred in the last seven years of the middle schools. So, >> yeah. Just curious. I'm
019not I'm just This is education for me. How what's the frequency with which such assessments are done? >> Usually >> six years good, bad, average. >> It's usually around 10 to 15. Every 10 to 15 years. >> All right. Great. Thank you very much. >> Yeah, I do think I'm sorry. >> On one Oh, sorry. >> No, that's okay. I was just going to emphasize the when we're taking a look at things like Mr. Slaughter was alluding to. It's not what needs to be done right now. It's let's take a look at things and plan for 10 15 years for our 22 facilities that we have. So there might be things that were renovated, Hatfield Elementary, uh Montgomery Elementary and so forth fairly recently. Even NAP was now four or five years ago, which is
020incredible. What's going to need to be done there in 15 years? Um so we don't leave our homes unattended to for 20 years. We can't do that to our buildings either. So, it's really just a full-scale facility study to help us plan for the next 10-15 years. >> And Mrs. Mc Merry, I understand you have a question, but can we go to Mr. Fusco first? >> Absolutely. >> No, because I think mine's about the other RF. >> Okay. Okay. So, Mrs. Mc Merry and then Mr. Fusco. >> Oh, okay. No, I I honestly I was following up from Mrs. Hower and um Mrs. Rnik. I do support this being a full district assessment for the scope that's defined here because the the capital project plan that exists now is for every facility and to not
021include everyone at this point would not allow for more would not allow for very good confidence that you really do have the whole situational awareness of the district in hand and you wouldn't want to go into you. We're trying to get out of reactive mode >> um and to plan accordingly. So, I I'm just putting it out there. I would not support something less than the full scope of of what's here. Thank you. >> Okay, Mr. Fusco. >> Um thank you. Uh yeah, my question actually is regards the first RFP and I'm just wondering among the objectives aligned with this um are we looking at um boundary realignment in any facet with this particular study? I know they don't. I got to ask because I don't have much time left and I think I just
022want >> we need it needs to be looked at. >> I'm not sure if that was caught on camera. So I want to look I want to look the camera in the eye and say that Mrs. Hower just muted her mic. Uh so Mr. Mr. Fusco, it is it is certainly responsible to say that uh we have some schools that are bursting at the seams. Some schools were having to get creative with spaces and other schools that have a few empty classrooms. So, do we have enough capacity across the school district to handle all of the students? Yes. Do we have enough capacity in each building to handle those who are currently zoned there? No. Uh without some schools that have specials on a cart, without right some adjustments. So there are pockets across the
023district in particular this large. You might have a really large kindergarten and first grade at NAP for example and that you ride that wave through and everything's fine at NAP. So the whole purpose of an enrollment or demographic study is to say is this a wave or is this a trend and are there um zoning in place for developments in certain sending areas and others that are upcoming. Certainly it's been well documented the site property Freddy Hill they're talking about maybe 300 homes there's the movie lots there's the Sumntown and 40 foot property that they're talking there's a lot of development coming so we have to take a look at that uh just to see the shifts that are >> right there's an awful lot of community conversation right now surrounding you know with the
024the boom as such of development in areas like Talmenson and some of the others communities Hatfield um whether or not it is sustainable um for the schools to be able to to take on more students and yes absolutely we have schools that there's an imbalance in terms of you know certain students are in classrooms that are full and others there's more breathing room and you know when the interest of equity I think we do want to make sure and I mean equity in terms of just across the board is everybody getting a fair shake it's if you're in a classroom with 28 kindergarteners versus a classroom with 16 kindergarteners I think it's safe to say the 16 is probably getting a better more comprehensive experience and I think we owe it to everyone particular the
025children to make sure that you know we are doing right by them and making sure that uh the spaces that they are occupying are um suitable. Thank you. >> Yeah, I think uh great points and just a fun little trivia game here. Uh when most of you joined us on the board, I'll turn to Mrs. Stole. Put her on the hot seat. Why not? Um, does anyone know what our largest elementary school was, let's say, in 2018? Um, I'm pretty sure I know these answers. >> Largest by enrollment. >> Yes. Largest elementary school in 2018? >> Quinn Square. >> It's not Quinton Square. >> Was it Diana? You might need to back me up, but >> my guess is Montgomery Elementary in 2018. And our current largest elementary school, >> NAP. >> No, >> NAP
026is right there. They fluctuate, but I'm guessing today NAP is number two and Gwynor number one. Okay. >> Lots of new developments in the Gwenor sending area. So, I mean, Montgomery is like four now. Um, so things shift over time and that's only been six, eight years. So, >> and I think in our term on the board, we can we do start to see some of these shifts and changes. And when we do visit buildings, we see some that do have available classrooms, some that don't. So, um, I'm appreciative that this effort is underway and that we're going to kind of couple it with a study of our facilities, too. So, it's not just about rooms for classes, but the entire package, entire thing. Okay. So, we do have a motion and a second on
027the floor. Um, all of those in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Motion carries. Okay. Moving on to item C, the 2627 first responders tax rebate program. So, uh, let me get it open here. You'll bear with me. I'm not good with a trackpad. Um, so this is something that was brought to you guys back in 2024. I've I've attached um Mr. Shraki's Act 91 presentation from back then just as a reminder for folks what we're talking about. Um, this is for volunteer emergency responders. So, volunteer ambulance, volunteer firefighters. Um, for the um I think there's seven, we'll see it when I open the sheet. um for the seven or so volunteer fire companies that service our district. Um the county the the numbers that you see there with the credit up to
028the rebate rather up to $1,000 is what the county is offering and what some of the municipalities around us are discussing as well. Um we can do a thousand or we could do a different number. So, um, let me open up the proforma that I came up with just to, um, so we have something to talk about. Can make it a little bigger. I was told my sheets are too small, >> too big. >> Yep. So, the com the the four on the or the five rather on the top. I reached out to um Mr. Coron and he was able to connect me with one of the fire chiefs that collected all the um the point sheets that they're already they're already doing this in these in those five departments for other rebates. Um >>
029that's that is true data. Yes. Yep. And the >> there could be a lot more people out there than these. >> Well, these are so the only people that are eligible are the are the people that are firefighters or ambulance or paramedics in those in those organizations. >> So there were 170 eligible volunteers. Your mic's off. Um there are 170 eligible volunteers and 158 of them qualified for some sort of rebate. >> Okay. Um and so the cost of the rebates if we had done it if we had done it like the county did those five departments would have cost us around 106,000. I didn't have real data on the I only had the um eligible volunteers list from North Penn and Hatfield. So based on the percentages above, assuming they had a similar percentage
030of people qualify, all all in, we would probably be looking at about $155,000 a year in rebates if we do it up to the $1,000 mark. So if we chose that 500 was the top and we still use the point system, you know, it would be half of that. Um so it would be 75,000. Uh there is also in in my discussions with the chief the fire chief um there are also some municipalities I don't know if they're in Montgomery County or Bucks County that are doing a flat the districts are doing a flat rate. So if you qualify you if you qualify for any points per se it's just a $250 rebate and everybody gets the same amount. Um so you could do it that way. Um, I think the the ask previously was
031what would it cost if we mirrored the county's program? This is what it would cost if we mirrored the county's program. So, really there's two two decisions I guess in play. Is one, is this something we even want to do as a district is to offer first responders a tax rebate. Um, again, these are volunteer first responders, so they are not theoretically they are not paid to fight fires and they respond to our buildings. um or like the transformer fire that happened today. Um so, you know, do we want do we want to do that is question number one. And then question number two was do we want to phase it in? Do we want to just jump in with both feet? Do we want to offer a flat rebate? And I'm open to discussion
032on that. Can you remind me from some of our conversations about so with the the tax rebate program that we currently have in place for for seniors? The individual has to qualify for one rebate, has to apply, but there still is work on our end that we have to do the outreach, the processing. How would that compare the administrative processes for us on using whether it's a flat rate model or a percentage? So the point system that they have here, it is up to the fire chief of their department to send to the district a notorized report of hours and points and people. Um, so the information that I got from here that they actually had a very nice it's a very nice spreadsheet that they've worked out. Um, and every activity, if if we
033looked at the um the resolution from the county, every activity is assigned a different amount of points. So, if you respond to a fire, you get a certain amount of a car accident. Um, training, they get points for training because they have to be properly trained to do their jobs. Um, the administrative folks at the um at the firehouse get fewer points. They they can only get like a a maximum of I think it was a hundred. They have to Yeah. the maximum that an administrative person could get would be a $100 on their rebate. Um, so there's different different tasks and jobs and trainings that get them different points and it's up to the chief to track those points and turn that report in for his members. Um, and and by notorizing it, they're
034swearing that it's true and and and factual that they responded as appropriately. Um, so once we got that report, it would just be a matter for us of issuing checks. Um, it would not be the amount of um, I don't believe it would be the amount of outreach because I would just go to the fire companies. I I mean, this isn't this isn't an open to the public rebate. This is only for first responders and I would go to the departments that serve and say, "Okay, we're doing this. It's up to you to to keep track of your folks and provide documentation if we decide to audit you." >> Okay. Okay. So, the administrative responsibilities on our end are it's a match and and a it's less than the the other tax rebate and it's
035a partnership with the >> correct >> volunteer firefighter. >> It's a self-report. So, they're going to self-report their points, but they're going to swear that they are telling the truth essentially is what the document is how the document reads. And then I would get their names and their addresses. We'd make them vendors in our system and cut them a check. who validates that they are homeowners within the district and the other things that they would then need to qualify. >> Um, truthfully, I didn't think about validating if they were homeowners or not because they would have we could require them to provide their tax bill along with uh like a copy of their tax bill along with their their forms. >> Okay. >> And this is just volunteers, right? Because we have >> correct >>
036many emergency responders who are on staff. for example, uh some of our paramedics, some of our fire chiefs, for example, their own staff. So, this is just volunteers. >> Yes. >> What percentage of the the districts that are doing this and maybe it's just a raw number are doing the flat rate as opposed to mirroring the county. >> Um I don't have a breakdown on that. I can I can reach out. We we actually this was actually a topic of conversation. We had our business managers meeting last Friday at the at the IU. Um all of us are looking at it. Everybody's trying to decide whether they want to do it. A lot of them are trying to jump on the tax rebate like we already have first and then tackle this. So we're because
037we're beyond the tax rebate conversation for for um for the state rebate um we're kind of ahead of the game. I don't know that everyone's trying to feel their way on on how much they want to offer. It really comes down to the point of the program is to incentivize people to become volunteer firefighters. We have a shortage of volunteer firefighters and a shortage of volunteer first responders. If we can incent them to do that, um then maybe we don't have to create paid forces in order to keep our area safe. Um, so the hope was that, you know, now that puts it on the school district to help support the fire department as opposed to the municipality paying for firefighters. Um, but it goes hand in hand, right? So, because it's all the same
038taxpayers that we're talking about. So, >> I would assume that the uh the approach we would take here would be the same as the property tax rent rebate program where we would revisit this every year or >> Yeah, we can. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I do want to point out um back to Dr. G's question which was a good one about is it a flat rate? Is it um granted this is dated information but the presentation that Ms. Hower attached from April 24 has a bunch of examples there. Cambria Heights, East Alagany, Namines, Southern New York, Mthactton, Lower Marian. Um that's slide seven of the last April's presentation and then some other municipalities as well just to give some examples of what they are all doing. So, it is not an all-encompassing list and like
039Miss Hower said, all the superintendents are talking about this as well. It sounds like everyone is kind of dipping their toe in the water. So, >> thank you. >> Well, th this is certainly something that I'd like to explore further. I think we can get some granular details we had towards budget season because there's an understanding of what this type of cost means per taxpayer and how that compares. I I really like your point that one way or another, what's the the strategic goal? And we already have McGomery Township that is exploring having their own uh professional fire department. Now, to your point, it doesn't matter which way we cut the pie, there's going to be taxpayers that are are are paying a bill. If there's an aspect strategically that we can um that is
040convincing and clear that we have an opportunity, you know, by creating a baseline to see what our retention rate is, maybe a possibility to expand the pool. That's what I wonder about with some of the other districts who offer this in Montgomery and Bucks County is right what have they seen though it it isn't really long-term enough to understand what retention or expansion might be. But we have to be able to as a board if we're going to put this in a budget at least be able to clearly explain to the community the type of investment this is. as just one board member. I uh I absolutely support this type of investment in our uh not only our volunteers and first responders, but this is protection of lives, of businesses, and of homes. And I
041think it's really important that our our budget shows what our priorities are, but we have to explain it uh clearly. So, I look forward to uh hearing more numbers as we go forward. Glad we're not just making a vote on that tonight. And I'm also just going to add that it's protecting our school buildings as well. That's it. So I think we've heard a lot that the justification around this is to to encourage individuals to step up and volunteer. So, do we have a sense I think and and to kind of Jonathan's point too is if if it the current impact on our budget would be about 155,000. What would it look like if this would drive and what is and what is the point like we do with the other districts we have quite
042a range from a flat $200 to I think it was $1,500. So, where where would it be appropriate? where is a good starting point for us just because we we do have a system of reviewing the tax rebate every year. So what would be a safe place for us to start to work out the kinks to develop the relationships um and then we can certainly consider reviewing this each year that gives us because I do think we're going to be relying on districts to share data that may or may not be available or may not match. um we may not be able to kind of tie it, but I think it's still worth getting the the information. Um I think having a little bit of a template of kind of where we might want to
043start um might be helpful. >> So I think I think going into So this would be part of our 2627 budget. So this wouldn't start for this budget year. This would be for tax bills issued on 7126, which means they have to finish working all of 2025. So it would be all of their volunteer hours in 2025 would be the look back for their tax bill on 7126, right? So, whatever they're doing this year, um, you know, you could say you could start with a flat rate of everyone gets 250 as long as they've accumulated the 100 points that are in the and and you use the point structure that the county's already laid out. I'm not interested in recreating the wheel like I'm trying to piggy back as much as we can off the
044county's program. Um, and say start with 250 and if if you meet the 100 point minimum and if you're an administrative person, you meet the 100 point, you know, the 50 point minimum for the administrative person, then we only do 250 or 100. We do flat rates for next year and see what kind of buyin we get. And if 158 people from those five municipalities show up, great. then it's 158 times $250. Um, and we can see, you know, but they have to those members qualified because they had to earn those points. Um, if it's a really safe year, you know, and God willing, we won't have to pay anything because they'll never get called out and they won't earn any points because nobody's spouses caught on fire, you know, that that would be the
045or cars got into accidents and those kinds of things. Um so >> so in terms of next steps from this meeting what you need from us we need to begin we need to set the parameters. What are we we need to determine if we're ready to set the parameters? >> Yes. >> Okay. And then what I would suggest is if you want to say yes, we agree that a volunt, you know, a a first responder volunteer tax credit is something we want to pursue, then I would include it as part of the budget for 2627. And we would have the parameters for you at that time, just like we do with the tax rebate and how much we're going to offer for the tax rebate. And it would be a line item in the budget
046for next year. >> Okay. And just uh if I may, I think, you know, based on some of the discussion, it sounds like there's a little bit of a desire for some additional details about for some other municipalities that have put this in place, what their experience has been. Um and and just in terms of um what's on the agenda of listing any action at at the September meeting, there are some procedural steps for this program that need to be taken. Um there's actually the district would have to advertise for a period of 30 days um the resolution itself in a a legal publication and then hold a hearing um uh you know just opportunity to discuss the program specifically the ordinance itself or the policy itself um allow people to comment on it and
047so those are steps that would have to be taken certainly they could be done by the end of this school year to be in effect you know starting for tax bills issued July one but I certainly think there's some additional steps before you know voting on anything next week that would need to take place. >> Do we need to pass a resolution though that we want to move forward so I can we can draft all those things and advertise those meetings and whatnot? >> Sure. That would be another another uh you know an alternative to the recommended motion that's on there is would be authorize the administration to you know take steps to further investigate and prepare um to bring forth a uh a tax uh program before the board at a future date. Okay,
048I can and then I could change that wording for the for the action committee >> action meeting. Sorry. >> Could I ask? Yes, please. >> I feel like things are moving quickly. >> Um I I'm more I would say I am where Mr. Casa is in that I fully support like us wanting to move forward and get more information. Not at the point of like let's move forward with a resolution, let's draft something. And my reasoning is again we are um for any community who doesn't know in a full renovation which is costing millions of dollars to taxpayers for our high school which is really needed. In addition to that, we are a learning institution, right? This is the educator on the board. Our primary primary responsibility is to our students and for them to
049learn. And I feel like for me, I need to hear more about the other budgetary measures that could impact our district as we move forward throughout the year. So, there's other things like we are just starting in the budget conversations. Um, and I feel like I I need to know more about that to know where I would land. I feel like I'd support something, but I'd need to know more about it before I'd want to be like, "All right, let's advertise. Let's because all of this impacts our taxpayers and we know that we have a huge renovation project for our infrastructure along with a continued commitment to be a learning institution that needs to invest in curriculum and um teachers and all of those things. And so the educator in me also says $150,000 is
050two teachers. And so, um, and so I'm I'm saying that to say I do support it, but would love to like just slow us down a little bit to say let's like start the conversation, but then hear more about the other things that need to happen um and that the administration needs to bring forward to us as we proceed into the budget year. And I and maybe want to know when would you need to know to begin to roll that out? Would it be the end of like going through the budgetary process and talking through it and this could be one of the budget presentations? >> It can be one of the budget presentations. I would just put in $100,000 in the in the budget and then it would be a discussion item as part
051of budget or $150,000 or wherever I think we're going to land. So I I think if everybody has mentioned that they would like more information. So, if you could reach out to me and tell me what information you're looking for so I can gather that for you. Um, >> I can tell you what information I want like from me before we leave the meeting so that that way like because I think many times in part of our conversations we're able to kind of say these are the things that we're looking for. Um, for me it was what I mentioned earlier specifically. I'm curious as about more information and I know Dr. Bower said that he had it in terms of the the amount of districts who or not had it that he that people were
052talking about it. I'm sorry. Um the number of districts that are thinking more towards the flat fee as opposed to mirroring the districts. That's some information that I would want even if we don't have it now. Okay. >> Before being ready to move forward. >> Okay. >> For me, that's my piece. >> Okay. and just an opportunity to kind of see in terms of information for me overall, what are the other things that we have coming towards us. I didn't see a facility study on the horizon until tonight. And so that's $150,000 we're talking about there. That's 300,000 in one meeting that we've just talked about, which in the large scheme of our budget is not um may seem like a drop in the bucket, but again, the educator in me says that's how many
053teachers teaching how many little people in the classroom or larger people who are high schoolers at the classroom. So, I also just want us to kind of like slow the conversation down a little bit. At least that's what I would submit. Thank you for the time. >> And I think because the justification too is that this helps with recruitment. I think if we could do a little bit of information around um perhaps it's a case study or a district or a um a an area that has been able to see this go into place and what the increase was and then that will help us too with what our budget estimate now is and what it could be. Okay. >> So knowing you know is this going to increase the number of people who are
054interested in volunteering. I will say that I think some of them might be some of our high school students who might want to volunteer or who have an interest in that. But what would be that requirement? I think also too, how do we manage the questions around the verification of homeowner status? >> Um they would have to show their paid tax bill. That that's part of the part of the resolution >> or is that on the fire chief? Is that like just the procedural um kind of component with that? >> It's part of the report that they submit. >> Okay. Yeah. Okay. So that's clear. Yeah. >> Okay. So, and I think to Dr. G's point, I think having this be incorporated into the budget is a good idea. We could also dedicate time because
055we do have a little bit, you're starting to prepare for the budget very soon. Our budget, usually our budget meetings don't start until January, but if we want to dedicate a meeting leading up to that for further discussion, I think that would be fine as well. >> Okay. Oh, sorry, Tina. Go ahead. No worries. Sorry. >> So, no, I just I I understand where Dr. G is coming from as far as being an educating educational um that's our main goal, right? But I do think that um you know, safety is also important and the firefighters and it's also for EMTs, right, that um would be eligible. >> Yes. >> That would come to our district and respond if we needed an an emergency. And I think that's very important because the response times have been
056getting longer and longer. So if you can if there's anything we can do to encourage people to volunteer for these positions because it's not just a matter of saying, "Oh yeah, I'll do it. I'll help out." Right? They have to go through intense training and lots of hours. And there's a reason we don't have as many as we used to. So whatever we can do as a school district to encourage people to volunteer, I think it's important because I I think deep down it's a basically a safety issue for us, too. Okay. Any other Oh, sorry. Last one, please. No. >> Yeah. So, I don't actually just want to make sure I'm clear. You will not be receiving any additional questions from me on this topic. >> Okay. >> Um just so that you but
057um because I do think we've talked about it numerous times and I understand the the concerns around the table. I actually thought we were going to be discussing today, you know, where we wanted to draw the line, but it sounds like um and I think we should hold ourselves as a board accountable not to draw this out for too long. Um and so that the next conversation hopefully can be a yay nay. And if it's a yay, where do we want to draw the line? Because just as uh Mrs. Stole just stated you know um it is an important part of our population and it's one that it's hard from all the data I've read it is you know it's dwindling right and the safety of our students is part of our edict uh as
058well you know physical and psychological safety so hopefully the next time we discuss this it would be a yay nay discussion and then if it's a yay Hey, where do we so that you're not doing, you know, 4 hours of or, you know, many, many hours of work trying to pull data for us. Thank you. >> Y, I appreciate it. Thank you. >> Okay. So, I think that we've kind of heard that there's an interest in wanting to have a little bit more information, wanting to make sure that it ties into our budget, but also then being able to be mindful that this is a critical issue and one that um supports the safety of our students and our community. So, I think what we will do this evening is we will move on from
059to the next agenda item and then we will revisit this um at our next finance committee meeting. Okay. Item D, assessment appeal settlements. >> Um, yeah. So, uh, these are on the advice of council. We have gone through these and I'm gonna I'll just going to read it because it's easier so I don't mess it up. Um, this is a stipulation with the organization listed for Penrook Station area concerning the property located at Church Road within Upper Glenned Township. Um, we're a decreasing the assessed value from 36.8 million to 31.3 million for 2025. We will be refunding about 177,000 in taxes. Um and effective going forward they will reduce it in another approximately um 2 million down to 292 for 2026 and 2020. Um and going forward um it was it did go to court.
060We did get a stipulation. Um essentially we're not coming out as bad as they had originally asked. Originally I think they wanted almost 10 million off the 36. So all the way down to 26 million, excuse me. Um so we settled for the current year at 31 and then going forward at the 29. Um and you know it was kind of met in the middle. So >> okay, do I have a motion and a second to recommend um the approval of the attached stipulation agreements? >> So move. >> Motion by um Mr. Mr. Fusco, seconded by Mr. Rash. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Any any opposed? Motion carries. Um, we'll skip overformational items as our student representatives are not present and we'll move on to the financial reports. Um, so the
061financial reports for are are out there and they're there for your perusal. Um, these are period 12 for June. Um, like what we call period 13 is our adjustment period that we do as part of audit. So, these are results as of be prior to any audit adjustments that need to be done. Right now, our revenue and um expense projection is projecting somewhere around a $19 million surplus um going into budget. Um that'll depend. We've I have we have to book some acrals yet. So, we may see that fluctuate a little bit. Um but I I anticipate it to be somewhere in the 18 to 20 million range. Um right now it's sitting at about 191. Um the Cognos reports that broke previously have been fixed. Um and we are also looking at creating um
062some new reports that would be easier to under that I think would be easier to understand than what we're including. Um so in the future we're going to we have a meeting tomorrow. Tomorrow um we have a meeting tomorrow internally to talk about how we can rejigger some of these reports. um these have been inherited through multiple administrations and they um are somewhat difficult to put together. Um and so I want to I'm trying to find something that comes out of the system. One because then we don't touch it and it's easier to run. Um and two then if it comes right from the source of truth then you have less of a chance of making an error. Um so we're going to have that meeting tomorrow. Um and I would discuss any changes with
063you guys going forward um in finance committee in the future to to show. So in general the reports that you get um the revenue and expense projections take show you the whole year what has actually happened and what we anticipate happening through the rest of the year. And every month you add the actuals in and you remove an estimate. Right? So you take budget and then you project and you change your projection every month to see where we're going to end for the year. So, we would continue to have some sort of projection, but hopefully it would come out of the system. Um, the general fund financial reports are showing you month-to-ate activity and year-to- date activity, but not the projection for the full 12 months. Um, so that one is very easy to get
064out of the system. So, that's probably one that the look of it will change, but the information will stay the same. Um, EIT transfer tax, um, those both come from external sources. as they come. So, those would probably won't change all that much. The enterprise fund statements won't change all that much. Um, we are going to look at the short-term capital projects cash forecast. Um, I want to do more of a fund 30 review for you guys um just because of how much um construction we have going on and how much is flowing through our fund 30. So, I'm reviewing that to decide like what I think would be the best view to give you some insight into what's happening in fund 30 on a monthly basis. Um, for right now though, these are all
065the reports that you're used to seeing and they're all out there for your review. Um, do I have any questions on that? >> Okay. >> Any comments or questions? >> Thank you for updating the system for us. >> Yeah, no worries. >> All right. >> And I do appreciate the using a future meeting to kind of give us an overview of that and what has changed and things that would be really helpful. we would compare and contrast just so you can see what the I really think that my personal take on what's really important for you guys to know is where we are revenue-wise, where we are expense-wise, right? I mean, ins and outs, but also what does that look like from the beginning of the year to the end of the year and where
066are we where are the shifts? Um, you have to technically vote on budget transfer. So, that's something that's like a statutory thing. So, we have to get that approved. Um, but it it's more than that. It's just understanding the projection for the year. So, >> okay, perfect. Okay, moving on to um public comment and I'll start by reading the statement. Um, individuals attending this meeting and intending to speak to the committee should be aware that they are being recorded. In order to meet the requirements of Pennsylvania Sunshine Law, it is necessary to record the names of all citizens who speak to the committee during the meeting. To asssure compliance with this requirement, it is essential that those planning to address the committee state their name and municipality. As a reminder, the public comment portion of
067the meeting is designed for residents and taxpayers of the district to provide comment and feedback on matters being discussed at tonight's meeting or matters that may come before the finance committee meeting. It is not designed for debate or discussion with members of the committee. When appropriate, committee members may choose to respond to public comments that have been made or request that a member of the administration follow up with the speakers after the meeting. Members of the audience are asked to limit their questions and comments to three minutes. And this is in reference to board policy 903. Anyone desiring to be heard? Good evening. Uh Jason Lair Landdale. Um I finally got you guys were talking about funding for first responders and it was a lot of debate. I mean it went on for quite a
068while. Um and I'm not sure how much of the board is aware of the money being spent to fight lawsuits in the district specifically regarding disclosing information on the movie lot sale. I did a quick run of numbers uh on how much we've been paying Mr. Summer's law firm since the sale of the movie lot. It's like $500,000. Why are we fighting to prevent information being dis disclosed regarding the movie movie theater sales or the the movie theater lot sales? So, I don't know if you're aware, but specifically the sale with uh Baluti was there was there was a couple of bids given. Normally, you would think the bid would go to the the person who wanted to pay the most, but in this case, that didn't happen. That's according to Al. We we are
069the second second or third highest bidder we went with. So, the good question is why? >> So, the the question is is why would we we not be paying uh getting the most amount of money for the the uh the land? So, did uh a right to know and and that information has been denied, denied, denied, denied. went to the uh office of open uh records and they said no you have to dispose uh disclose that information because it's it's public information. Now what instead is the uh the solicitor took a sued to prevent that information from happening and they lost the lawsuit and then they appealed and they lost the appeal and now they're going for another appeal. So, how much money are we going to spend on preventing disclosure of information? Why why
070is it not available to know how much money was bid to whom? If another if another uh developer wanted to pay us $25 million for the movie lots, why wouldn't we sell it to them? Why wouldn't we disclose that information? Now, I've been told that's so that if you have to get a second bid, we wouldn't want to uh you wouldn't want to tip your hand, if you will. But that doesn't make sense to me because we already know what Puty sold the or bought the land for, which is 15 million. So, if somebody didn't get the bid, assuming they would think it was a low bid, right? Because you were supposed to go with the highest bidder, but you didn't. So why why aren't you disclosing the information on all the bids? Why not?
071You could make a motion right now and allow that to happen. Prevent Mr. Summers taking it to court and spending another however many thousands of dollars to prevent that from being disclosed. So why don't you take a motion and let that happen? >> Thank you. >> Anybody else interested in making public comment? finance. >> Hello, Yanni Lamrose Lanzel. >> Mr. Lamros, just before you begin, I just want to make sure you're clear because it's right at up against work session. We're still in the finance meeting. So, this is a finance public comment. Work session will start right after. So, if you wanted your comments for work session, just want to make sure that's clear. >> I mean, >> as long as it's about finance, you're good. Oh, finance about kind of want to follow up
072what Jason Laneir was bringing up um about the lack of transparency when it comes to certain aspects of the finances like the whole bid situation. Seemed a little odd. Also, um there's been other cases too where the school seems to want to fight citizens for over right to no request over only certain things. Um most of my comments are going to be for the next work session. Um but I don't understand. All right. Bringing it to the finance thing. I think that certain things should be changed even in aspects of the high school renovations. Um, from what I'm hearing from different people, it seems like we're spending more money on facade and show versus, you know, just maintenance and even adding additional wings and whatnot. you know, you can create a nice clean learning environment
073with updated technologies um and classrooms, but we can do it in a more cost-effective way. We don't have to go with the highest quality material. We don't have to go with the, you know, open space layouts. We don't have to break the tradition that much and overspend. Uh, also when it comes to the finance decisions, I was last meeting um that I spoke with you guys, I brought up the air conditioning factor in the middle schools and then there was a lot of talk about how that would be a large expense and I can understand that, but I also don't know the full situation. So if there is duct work, depending on what heating system the school has, that's a huge expense for the air conditioning. So that would be eliminated for the fact that
074the duct work is already ran. If it's not, there is other alternatives like split units that can be put in multiple classrooms to help the protect the safety of both the students and the staff during the hottest days of the year. So my overall question is like do you guys pay attention to the details? Do you just let the designers do what they want? What is the point of all the renovation if you can't do it while maintaining the rest of the schools is my question. Does that make sense? Maybe, maybe not. Think about it. Thank you. Talk to you again in a couple minutes. Um I think just to kind of follow up and then I am going to ask um Dr. Bower um to respond to that. Um I think the planning and
075preparation for our buildings and what is needed and the input that we've received is not just from designers, it's from our educators and and our community. And so to see what is necessary, what is needed to be able to teach our students today and to see it come into um a design has been really amazing. and now to then begin to see it happen and come into the building is going to be um even better and to see that process already play out at NAP um and then is has been really fascinating. So, Dr. Bower, would you like to follow up on any of our um public comments? >> Sure, I'd be happy to. Uh in reference specifically to Mr. Laneir's comments about uh a right to know request, first of all, um Mr. Summer's
076firm did not represent us in the sale of the movie lots. Um that is Rudolph Clark, formerly Rudolph Clark, but now called Clark Gallagher Barbaro Amuso Glassman. Um so they are a law firm that we utilize for um assessment appeals and property things as such as that. Mr. Summer's firm does represent the school district when it comes to the right to know law. Um I'm not sure what is alleged that Mr. Res did or didn't say, but regardless, at a public meeting of the finance committee, um, and in a work session where we discussed uh, the sale of the movie lots, Mr. Scrai and I actually did share out the process and the fact that we didn't go with the highest bidder because we were actually weighing the volume that they were proposing versus the
077cost versus a number of settlements. So, I think all I'd have to look at the records, but let's say there were eight total offers. Um, some of them had one closing, so you get all your money at once. Some had four closings and so forth. So, it was about weighing how many properties or residences do they want to put on the property, how much are they willing to pay, how many closings, how long would it take us to get that money because there's obviously long more risk when you wait longer, but that was discussed publicly. Um, regarding not sharing the bids, I I think it makes most sense to share an analogy with selling your home. Um, if I were to sell my home today and let's say I had eight bids on my home,
078I would not tell the other seven biders what the winning bid got in case that deal falls through. At that point, I would then go to the biders and say, "Okay, that deal fell through. If you'd like to make another offer, we we would be happy to hear." Now, everyone knows what that offer was because we shared that publicly, how much we sold the property for. Um, but we still have not closed on that deal because there's a due diligence period. There's all kinds of things. So our the sole reason for not providing that information is to protect the taxpayer and the and the finances of the school district so that if this deal does not ultimately come to fruition, we can maximize the value of the profit within reason with all those other things
079considered. So that's the reason. Um we have said to anyone who has submitted a right to know request, we will be happy to provide you with everything. I'll be happy to share everything publicly once the deal closes, but until the deal has closed, it is not in the best interest of the school district to share all that information publicly. Um, so hopefully that deal closes very very soon. I think we're right up against it now and uh I'll be happy to discuss that at a finance meeting what all those bids were. No problem. >> And thank you so much for that wonderful summary of of information that has already been shared um publicly. I think Mrs. Mcmmerry, did you want to also respond a little bit? Very briefly, thank you, Mrs. Ramage. Just want to
080remind the community and the folks that um gave public comment that um attending the facilities and operations committee and reviewing the agenda and the details would provide um more granularity regarding the scope of the project uh for specifically for the high school and specific to um the materials that are being used um in the project. Our goal is to make sure that we do have high quality materials and we also want to make sure that our warranties are robust and do protect us um as much as they can. So yes, we are of the opinion that is the most prudent, cost-effective way to go and the best um use of taxpayer dollars. Thank you. >> Okay, great. Thank you, Mrs. McMerry. So just in summary um we have three items that will be moving forward
081for work session or action. That is our approval to advert advertise the request for proposal for the demographic study. The same approval to advertise for the um district facility condition study um and the assessment um appeal settlements. Um those are the items that will be carried forward. Our next finance committee meeting um will be on Tuesday. The dates are not correct. >> Um >> it'll be next month. Sorry. October 14th. Thank you very much. At 6 o'clock. Um do I have a motion and a second to adjurnn? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Okay. Mo this meeting will adjourn and then we're going to roll into our next one. Will we be taking a little bit of a recess or are we going to just keep going? >> Need a couple minutes. Yeah, need a
082couple minutes to reset on YouTube and everything. >> Okay, so we will adjourn and and and join back in five minutes. Thank you.