Board of Education Meeting 4/20/26

001There's some pledge. I >> pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Have a motion to approve the agenda. >> Move. >> Second. Second. >> All in favor? >> Opposed? Motion carries. Uh, next on the agenda is personnel hearings. Uh, we're going to have transfer headings. I turn them over to Dr. >> Thank you, President Long. Uh, this is a special meeting of the board of education called for the limited purposes of conducting required requested transfer hearings. The evidence to be considered by the board shall be limited to the information provided by the superintendent and superintendent designates in support of his recommendation and information submitted by the employees. The first hearing has

002been requested when made by Jesse Chapman, Matthew Bryan Albbright and Don Miller. West Virginia code requires county improve county board of educations to conduct hearing upon written demand of employees who have been recommended for transfer or contract termination after the administration has concluded with their profer of the evidence. The employees will be afforded an opportunity present employees and evidence times to be afforded for the employees presentation shall be limited to 15 minutes. However, written statements or any documents may be submitted by the employees to the board for its consideration. At the conclusion of the presentation of witnesses and evidence, the board will be provided an opportunity to ask superintendent and employees questions pertinent to the proposed personnel action. As a presiding officer, I rule on all evidentiary and procedural issues. Should any member of the

003floor issue with one of my rulings on the procedures or evidence, he or she may put the matter to a vote in the full board. While the strict rules of evidence do not apply, evidence that is not germanine to the reasons for the proposed personnel action will not be allowed. This hearing will be recorded. And if the three individuals, Jesse Chapman, Brian Alre, and Don Miller, please come forward. Have a seat there. Every remain standing. Uh and from the employee side, anybody else that would be present today that would be presenting information, if you please stand and raise your right hand. >> Do you swear to tell the truth today before this board? >> I do. I do. >> Thank you. And >> I need to be sworn in. >> We can do it. Okay.

004Okay, you guys might have a seat there. We'll begin with the board of education. Superintendent Sax is represented. Uh we'll begin with introducing each other. We'll start with board side. >> Thank you, Dr. Stoie. My name is Kim Croyle and I am the attorneys for the board. >> My name is Jason Kimosi. I am the executive director of human resources. >> Okay. And then >> you want to Sure. Uh, Eric Keyer, executive director of transportation, Berkeley County Schools. >> Aaron Hansel, director of service personnel, Berkeley County Schools. >> Please say Jesse Chavin, bus driver for 263. >> Matthew Albury, bus operator 452. >> Don Miller, bus operator 143 147. >> Thank you, Miss Crow. Can you please make a showing of the reasons for the proposed personnel transfers? >> Yes. Thank you, Dr. Skully. And

005as I as I understand it, you all requested open hearings. Is that correct? >> It's correct. >> I'm going to provide you with some documents and the board of education has this set of documents, but this is what brings us here today for the recommended transfer. Uh Mr. Path, Mr. Alreight, and Miss Miller. Um if there are any questions about what I present till today, certainly Mr. PC or dispens um or Mr. Kimoski can answer those specifically, but what I will provide is basically the reasons um why we were are here. And we start out with the efficiency that the board has been um conducting and looking at with respect to its bus routes for the last number of years. And as part of that and reconfigurations within the school system, there's a need to

006eliminate um some bus runs. And that's why we are here today with these folks. They will continue to have jobs next year if the recommendation is accepted by the board of education. They are simply being placed on transfer if the recommendation is is accepted. And then they will be reassigned within the county to another bus route. And so for each of the employees, what we have are the letters that bring us here today, which would be the letters that are required to be provided to the employee informing them of their recommended um personnel action, recommended transfer. We have the contract of employment for each employee. We have their assignment that follows that. There was a a tiebreaker that was conducted with Mr. Chapman. So that is in there. um when when you first were hired

007uh that you were you and a number of other drivers were hired at the same time. So there was a tiebreaker to see who would have seniority around you. It it's not relevant to what we're doing but where you might end up. >> Um and then following that for each employee there is a page that has the bus route listed on it. So for Mr. Chapman, it would be 263. And then it would just have a a spot check of three different days where the routes were reviewed to determine how many riders were actually on the route. And you will see that for Mr. Chapman, for Mr. Albbright and for Miss Miller um that those those buses are not full buses or not full full of students um to be run there. And so um

008because of that those routes for bus number 147 from Miss Miller uh bus number 263 for Mr. Chapman and bus number you're going to have to help me out. >> 452 um for Mr. Albbright. Those are the runs um that will be eliminated and will be absorbed in other parts of the county in or other on other runs. In addition, you will see behind that the assigned students um to each of those runs that are >> I apologize. Our video is frozen. >> Do you want to pause for a second? I apologize. Not sure what happened to Leah, but give me one second. >> Okay. Don't write it out. Good. Thanks for saying >> I apologize. >> No worries. No worries. Okay. So, we're we're back in um our hearing. The next document I believe

009that I was explaining to the members of the board would be following um the tally of students who are on the runs would be for each of these employees actually the assignment of students to their runs and what route those are. And then um that's the information that is in the packet for each of the board members and that was provided to each of the employees here this afternoon. Finally, for for the board's consideration, it would be those optimization results that I spoke with you about from EDG log um that were provided and go through all of your bus routes throughout the county to try to determine um how we can be effective and efficient and serve the need needs of the students in the most efficient manner available. and certainly um in reconfiguring bus

010routes, that's one of the things that is being recommended to the board and affects these folks here today. We're they will all have jobs. Um you know, we're not here for any other reason other than to ask that they be placed on the transfer list. there's, you know, nothing nothing personal and it's hard when that um comes and certainly we want this to be an opportunity for the employees to ask any questions and get any um questions answered that they may have but that's the reason that we're here today. >> Oh, thank you. I think it is frozen again. >> Wow. >> It's still rewarding the voice of graduation. >> May I ask? >> Absolutely. the numbers that you have here for uh the students that were on my bus on these dates. Where did

011those numbers come from? >> And I believe that Mr. Cassander can answer those questions. >> Yes. Uh Don, they came from actual downloading of video where we watched the entire video from counter that includ. >> No, this is all about ridership. >> Did you count videos from the morning? >> Yes. That's that that's what did you watch all week or just one sort of dead? >> We we did random uh premons and then all of this week or all of last week all all time. >> And and Mr. Keyer, maybe could you just draw up the numbers that you found for all of last week? So when you say that you had a sampling of every single day last week, correct? >> 413 through 416. >> Okay. >> Um high school elementary morning, high school,

012elementary school, >> and and for each, just so these folks know, you know, what those numbers look like and the board knows, can you go through each bus and describe the numbers on those days? >> Sure. >> Uh bus 269 on 413, the high school morning was 25, the elementary evening was 15. Uh the afternoon high school was 23, the elementary was 17. bus 92 high school. Um, and this is a special needs front. Uh, zero for high school, two for elementary. Um, zero and two for the afternoon. Also, bus 263, high school morning, 14 elementary 8 evening was high school 20 and elementary 10. Bus 452 was 20 for their high school, 14 for their elementary. In the afternoon it was 24 and 16. Uh bus 124 which is a special needs run also

013they had four in the morning three uh four high school three elementary and same for the afternoon four and three. Um bus 147 22 high school in the morning 24 elementary 25 high school uh and 25 elementary. And those numbers were consistent throughout the week. And could you just describe for the board and these folks here today what's actually going to happen with these students or what's projected for them? How are we going to get them to and from school? >> They they they will be um uh put on another bus route. Um that's the way we did it. We broke it out so that it we have different buses in that area that will will get their students. Okay. >> And those buses will all be within their bus limits. Correct. >> Yes. Any

014other questions that I will later on? U I live I don't I don't know how this is going to work but um I live on courthouse road. Okay. They talk about effective inhibition. Uh my bus is stage on courthouse road. Uh there's two buses that travel on board house road 216 and 428. Um and I do do 216 as a split run on Spec Run Road. That's up in uh Musman. Uh it's Musman High School and Musman Middle School's district. So he's got a high school run up here as which won't make no sense. Then he's got an elementary run that's on house road. Okay. So I have I'm sitting on I live on Courthouse Road where my bus is staged. His bus is staged at the Muslin High School. So if I'm staged and

015picking up kids on 45 and picking up kids in that area, okay, and they're taking putting me on transfer, why not put those kids his kids on Courthouse Road on my bus? You You see what I'm getting at? That's more effective and efficient. You don't You're saving fuel. You see what I'm saying? And you're bringing two buses in 428 or 216. And not only that, 494 and the and the driver's younger man. I'm older than the driver. 494 is also in there. I'm older than him. He took eight of my kids last year on his bus. So he could have more kids. I would have more kids. He took eight of my kids last year. I tried to get them back. The driver Steve was older than me. Wasn't getting my kids back. Okay, that's

016what I'm dealing with, too. Drivers that are older than you won't give your kids back. I try to go in there, they don't help you. I see I only two years. I've been driving for two years. Okay. When there's drivers older than you, there's people that they think that there are supervisors out there drives. Okay? And they think that they run certain areas of certain spots on these buses, but they don't. So, what I'm saying is I if I stage on Four House Road, there's three runs there that you could have two buses. I could have free runs and fill my bus. Like this morning I filled in for 428 and I filled my bus up right off house road. I had loop road. I had Nemore Road. I had poor house road. I had

01745. >> Route 45. Right off my my right off. You live on poor house road. You live right up the road from me. When you when you say older and younger, are you talking seniority? >> Seniority was seniority. So I'm I'm I have seniority over 216. Now 216 this morning called another driver said I was supposed to go on Reunion Corner Road and he said 272 said, "Hey, I can get Reunion Corner because if not, I would make a double loop of." He said, "Hey, I can get that for you." I said, "Okay." Then 216 called him said, "Hey, there's two kids sitting on a far which was my kids." But he never communicated with me to get those. Then he never communicated with me to get our transfer kids. He just picked them up

018on his own. >> Let me ask Mr. Keith Sir question. Seniority is to is determined for existing routes. It's not who gets to pick and choose the routes of the children on on contiguous routes or something like that. Correct. I mean the but the seniority does not you don't get to use seniority to determine your route uh your the service area of your route. >> No. Well, if it's posted, like if if a job is posted, a bus run is posted, it'll be in a certain area and those who bid on it, the top person seniority gets the job. But this wasn't I mean this whole study wasn't. >> But what I'm saying is picking and choosing students to contiguous areas to that route. It's not part of the job. That's management. So, um, the

019as he's explaining this, when they radio each other and say, "I'll pick up these kids. I'll pick up those kids." Uh, that's not really their routes. That's right. >> They're helping out. So, >> uh, can you explain a little bit what he's talking about, um, with the muscleman area in his area about that? >> You heard what he said about >> the staging. the staging. >> Yeah. >> Well, I think and this is what I'm hearing is that because he lives on poor house road that >> we could have added stuff to his route. However, that's not the way it was determined. Um, we took the information that Edgelock provided in their optimization study and worked with that and we really looked at the the lowest possible numbers on buses. Um, now refresh my memory.

020We don't He lives on Four House Road, but his run is >> doesn't necessarily have to be. >> Yeah. So, you don't where drivers live, you don't go back and change the I just want to make sure we all are understanding. No, we have a policy in place where um you have to fill out a form uh to park at home, but not necessarily that's going to be where your house is. >> Okay, I have a question. Um so getting back to his u situation or just probably similar to others um because he was talking about the efficiency part of it. So based on his explanation, wouldn't would it be more efficient and save the district money uh and time if rather than have somebody come from Musman High out to poor house if could

021Edelog basically be wrong in terms of the efficiency in terms of running the buses back and forth is is my question. That would presume that you're saying that 216 that bus could somehow not be parked somewhere else. I mean 216 is parked at the muscleman lot because that we have a parking lot there and that's where the employee gets the bus. >> Um >> Oh yeah. You're saying you could park it somewhere else and it would be more Okay. Right. But as you log didn't do this didn't do the study in terms of where bus drivers if they have their bus at home where their residence is that wasn't included in the study. Okay. >> Well well actually was correct me if I'm wrong but they did look at the the I forget how they

022they termed it but it was loaded time but then also the I guess the the leading up time which was based upon where the school bus was lo they start their run. Uh no they did it from the bus garage and the parking lots not from home but the time they would they they did the study based on in between like your high school run your elementary run and that's where they saw the big lag time in the morning to the very short time in the afternoon. So that part was taken into consideration, but not necessarily where the the bus originated because that can always evolve. If if it's more efficient because if the let's say that the driver lives farther away from the where their route starts compared to where the bus lot is,

023then it may mean that they would not park their bus at home anymore. They would park their bus at a at a lot. Correct. >> And to park any place other than the bus garage has to have their permission to do so. Other questions for I have a question. >> You don't have representation here today, council or anything else. I just >> But I do have representation. >> I didn't know how this was going to go down. Uh apparently we were supposed to get certified mail. I never received that. >> Me. >> Um I just got the email last Monday here with you know out giving my other job, you know, decent lead time to because I I didn't get my email till Tuesday. I didn't give my other job decent lead time to get

024off to come to this. Um, but I was under the impression we were each going to get a little bit of time to talk and I was waiting. >> Good. M, do you have anything else? >> No, I would just um remind the board and I'll provide copies of these. There are a couple grievance decisions that are um part of the board's packet and they explain I think some of the questions um perhaps that you were alluding to, Mr. Murphy, that seniority as a bus operator, unless you have a county policy that's different, and some counties do, like Preston County, you have a an area that you ride and certain preferences are given for that area, but seniority as a bus operator is seniority as a bus operator, not seniority for a certain run or

025a particular run or a particular area in the county. And that's all that I have to school with. >> Thank you. Uh, Mr. Chapman, uh, will you please begin your presentation? Um, we'll advise you we have about 10 minutes is a lot of time and we'll let you know. We when you use 10 minutes, we'll let you know that a lot of time so that way you have time to wrap up your presentation. >> I won't do that. I just wanted to kind of put a face to my situation. Hi, my name is Jesse. Uh, I developed a disability a couple years ago. Uh, was looking I don't like to be somebody who sits there at home and does nothing. even though I qualify for that. Um, I wanted to find something I could still

026do. And so, you know, I came to work here. Um, I came here during a time where you guys desperately needed drivers. There was nobody working. They didn't have anybody like there was empty routes. Um, so I kind of despite my my new status, I was able to get a pretty good run. And I'm not going to lie, I'm aware my run is a good run. Um, but I also needed that in order to function with my disability and also work a job. Um, when I began working here, I was surprised at how many parents sent me letters or stopped me at the bus stop to tell me, "My kid told me they feel safer with you. My kid feels safe with you. The other drivers were letting him hang out the window." And I

027I saw it with my own eyes. The kids come to me when they need something and the kids love me. I have kids that when I take off, they celebrate when they see me pulling back up at the bus stop because I do need to take off for my condition. It does happen. Um, I enjoy this job. I love my kids. I love the kids I work with. I love like it's it's a rewarding very rewarding job. um when they are telling us they're going to reassign us that there the seniority comes into play there. There's going to be new routes and all of the seniority, not the people in this room, the entire county seniority will be taken into consideration. So, as these are being posted, we will not be given preferential treatment. We

028will not be given any opportunity. We will be told, "Hey, here's a new route. It's open. We're replacing you." And if it's on the opposite side of the county, I'm sorry. I'm probably not coming back. I love my job. I love my kids. I love what I do. I do what I do and I do it safely. I've just I'm not going to the other side of the county. It's not going to happen. I'm sorry. Um, so when you're being efficient and you're taking that into consideration and you don't know where that money's going, the money you're taking away from my route is, you know, you don't know where that's money is going just going to say we're not going to be spending that on this anymore. But we can't say it's going directly to

029this or that. You're just going cool, we're done with this money. Um, you're taking that away from the students that feel safe. You're on my bus because there are buses that they are allowed to walk the aisles. I see it with my own eyes. They are >> Yeah. >> that they are that you're taking away from students who are feeling safe on my bus. you're taking away from my students who celebrate the students that are there are kids that are undiagnosed special needs on my bus and I treat them just like all the rest of the kids and their parents thank me regularly for doing so and I yeah I just wanted to make sure you had a face to put to in a story that goes behind I'm taking away this money I don't

030know where where it's going but we are going to take this money away. You're taking away from somebody who has put in the time, put in some effort, make sure that he he he makes his kids safe, who does it with a disability, who does what he can do to do right by you all. So, thank you. That's all I had. >> Mr. um Kucker, um Mr. Chapman said, "You're reassigning them, but I thought they had to bid on your basis." >> Yeah, but it's based on seniority. And every single person in the county, people who are not being displaced, can bid on these jobs, too. And again, I'm not going to I'm pretty low on the seniority list. So, I'm going to be with whatever's left over. So, I'm not good. >> Well, you'd

031have preferential because >> no, >> he as for bus operators, everybody else in the county, other other service personnel classifications are under you because they're out of classification. >> Oh, yeah. Based on buses, but >> no, based on a cook, if a cook been on your job that has more senior >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> She's not getting that job because she's not a bus. >> I understand. But that's what I'm saying. and the other bus drivers, busmen, they're excited to bid on these new jobs because they're excited because they know. So, he's announced that there's going to be some good runs on this. So, whatever left was left over is what is going to be left for the people that have low seniority. And again, I'm not willing to go to the other side

032of the county. So, >> if that's all that's left is something on the other side of county, my choices are be a substitute driver, which nobody wants to be a substitute or >> Yeah. Are won't there be other not to Mr. Key Center or to the superintendent? Won't there be other nonbus driving driving uh jobs that are going to be opened up that we're trying to get more people uh in house on routes that we now put out to the public uh or whatever you call the private sector. >> Do you mean like varsity? >> Yeah. >> Oh yeah. that we're we've developed runs uh to be posted um to do several different things for us to help us. >> Are those uh van runs paid the same as the bus driver? >> We don't

033we don't drive bands. It's just bus. >> We're not allowed to by state. >> But these other runs that we'll be doing, it's now contracted out for the public. >> We're we're going to do some of that. Yes. >> Do these people know about that? Well, they haven't been posted yet >> or even given a abstract description. >> Well, I think what what is fair to say is is that of the of the drivers that are on transfer, they they will all have uh runs that need to be filled that they're going to have an opportunity to apply for. Yes. And one of the things that we are doing with some of those runs is to be able to bring more students onto yellow bus service, meaning that we don't have to subcontract through a

034third party vendor transportation services, whether they be for students that are uh overflowed or special education or McKenna Vento. We're trying to get more children that are in Berkeley County on yellow bus service and freeing up these routes to create new routes to be able to accommodate that is a that's where the savings is. So the savings isn't necessarily from eliminating a route. The savings is by creating new routes that from an efficiency standpoint that we can get more students off of thirdparty vendors onto yellow bus service. >> Yes. And these folks and everybody who is approved for transfer would be automatic applicants for any new position that's posted. Whether it's a a new run that's created or if the most senior driver in the county picks a run and that person's job is is

035posted, then they're automatic applicants for that as well, >> right? But it's again, it's going to be a triple down system that again people who have low seniority are going to get what's left over. So >> that's a and you know obviously Mrs. Croyle and anyone else in here. That is one of the nuances of 18A that we don't have any latitude as a board to say, well, we would, you know, if the even if this board would want to say, well, for people that are on transfer, we want them to have priority. We don't necessarily have that ability like when you close the school, there's no there's no nuance in state code that allows that for service personnel, unfortunately. Um I do hear your frustration and I understand why that you know I is

036u frustrating uh in your in your chair is that you want to be able to give that preference on some of those new those new runs. At least that's what it sounds like as opposed to potentially having someone with more seniority also bid on it and potentially get it to where there's that domino effect that you have to you're subject to. And that is it is obviously frustrating. So again also though like I said it's also the fact that you know I understand efficiency. I do I I get the idea of efficiency but it's blind efficiency here. It's being unilaterally applied and that's part of the problem here. It's it's just there. I want to make sure that you guys know there are stories there are consequences too with a unilateral decision of efficiency over

037the individual like in general. Obsolete man if you're old enough to remember that 10 minute mark. >> So you're good. I'm done. Thank you >> Mr. Al. I want to make sure they have enough time, >> right? I want to hear what they have to say. >> They don't have time to ask people question. >> No, I I I I put up my basic. >> Yes, thank you. >> Uh you know, I understand the financial challenges facing Berby County. Um you know I believe the position and as bus operator should be reconsidered based on the seniority. That's all we have is the seniority. Um and I've been dedicated employee for two years. I believe this decision should be reconsidered based on the following. Seniority um several operators with less seniority in my area. of the

038area that I I still say the area I live in this area. I watched I lived in my area for 25 years. I watched 428 go down the road and I said when I retire this is the run I wanted. Well, I didn't get 428 but 452 when I lived in the area. I said that's the run my dad was bus operator for 25 years. You drew he drove you 16. he's worked for Eric and I said I'm I'm gonna drive in this area. I want to give back to my community to these kids where I live mountain kids where I live. So I said, "Well, this is this is the when I got that route." He said, "You want this route?" "Yeah, that's what I want." He got bus out prayers out there driving

03925, 30 years. Same route. Same route. Same route. Same route. Jerusalem. You know, I worked at the air 25 years and I worked for the government 25 years. retired from both. Got two retirements. I've seen all this stuff come down. Efficiency. Seen cuts. I've seen rifts. I've seen all this stuff come up. You know, I've left the government because of this. Seen it all. And here I get two years into it. Here it comes at me again. Comes at me again. And I'm thinking, you know, hey, I'm 59 years old, you know, retired. And I'm thinking, why? Why this? And I'm all I'm trying to do is give back to the community, give back to my kids, you know, to where I live at, you know, and that's that's all that's all I'm trying to

040do. So the seniority thing and I look at 216 and 494 and them guys are younger than me. And I look at 494 where that guy Steve was older than me and took eight of my kids. Well, that video what he showed, I would had eight more kids on my bus than what that video show then 216. Did he do a video? Did he bring them metrics in on that of what? Two 216 ain't got that many elementary school kids either. You know, there's a lot of u there's another bus out here too. I've got 462 in front of me at the high school. two kids sits there. Two kids on it. One of them's her own. She goes home, drops off her daughter. Don't even go to the middle school. >> No middle school

041kids whatsoever. Sits at the elementary school. She's there before we even get our run. You got a video of that cost and effectiveness. We are picked because of the people who we are, not because of our runs. We're picked because the people who we are. He could give you that line all day long if you want. We're picked because the people, 15 of us, is the people, not the runs. they can. And it's like when we requested, I knew it was coming. When we requested this appeal, then all of a sudden our buses, hey, we want to do the 247 maintenance. Then I said, "Okay, they're going to pull the videos and look at our kids." Knew what he's going to do. I was a quality insurance specialist from government, did government contracts. I knew

042what to do inspections. I did I did data analysis. They were going to pull the data. They didn't do no data before this. Didn't do no data. I asked the question, how'd you evaluate a run? They they gave me a hole answer, didn't they? Gave me a hole answer. He didn't do no data. Didn't do no metrics. He did the metrics. Now, after that, he went and pulled the videos. He did metrics because he asked a question during the 26th meeting. I did data. I did it all the time. I did all for all my contractors. I did contracts. This is I'm telling you that bus is cult. Because I'm telling you, there's older drivers out there, and I said I said it before and I'll say it right here. There's people in there, they

043think they're entitled just because you got 27, 30 years, 40 years driving school bus. There's people out there that come in that that can bring quality drivers. Now, you think of this. People come in there, they're all hiring. It's a revolving door. Revolving door. They're hiring. Hiring, hiring, hiring. Why is that? Why is that? I'm a quality person. I've been decorated military, 25 years, master sergeant, three FSC's, then deployed Afghanistan, Iraq, been all over the place, all over the world. been to like 20 23 countries all over the world. Crew chief, medals, I've been all over the place. 25 years, DoD. I'm not I'm not just involved off the tour truck and I'm sitting here transferring. Do I need this job? No. You know why I'm here? I'm here for these kids. These students, these

044students love me. The kids that I drive this bus for. These kids don't have a mom or dad. They live with their grandparents. These kids need me. I'm not here for the money. These kids need me. And here's a petition. My junior right here, she got a 4.7 average. come up. Want to save my job. I didn't tell her to do this. She's the one that did this. Want to save my route. I I'm glad to have more kids. You fill my bus up. 60 kids. Say, "Fill it up. Give me more rap. Fill it up. I'll take 60 kids. 60 grade school, 60 high school. I'll be glad to. I'll drive over that amount. You fill it up. That place needs culture change. I'm telling you that right now. You go in that place,

045it's like snake pit vipers. I don't even want to go in there and get fuel time. That's that's true. I've been I live in this I live in this county my whole life. Him and I always fool together. You know my brother Angelbright know my son welding instructor at Ramsey. What kind of people are them? Good people. I'm good people too and I don't deserve this. Anything? Yes, Mr. Albert. That's it. Thank you, Miss Miller. Yeah, I presentation. My name is Don Miller and I'm here to speak about the inconsistent application of seniority transportation decisions. In 2019, I answered a call to serve as a substitute bus driver. Then through my training, serve as bus substitute bus driver on an extended run for bus number 122. I drove that bus for approximately eight months. On

046March 3rd of 2020, I was hired as a full-time standby employee. At that point, I was pulled off of bus 122 and was told to be at the bus garage at 5:30 in the morning to be a standby substitute. Myself and another employee were both subs, and her name is Julie Roberts. She no longer works for for the board, works as a bus driver. She and I went into that little small room in there in the bus garage where the computers are as a full-time standby sub. We were told by instructed by Donna Miller that we couldn't sit in that room, that we had to go out and sit on the back of a school bus because if other drivers saw that there were subs in that room, they would call out in the afternoon.

047I have no reason to stand here and lie about any of it. At that point in time, I was curious as to why I'm being told to go to the garage to be a full-time sub when I was on a sub bus for 8 months as a sub and then be told to sit in the back of the bus from 5:30 to 8:30. When all the drivers come back in off their route and we weren't needed, we went and got in our vehicles and went home and came back and done it again at 2 o'clock in the afternoon. I have no reason to lie about any of that. So, if you think that's false, we can get Julie Robertson in here and she'll vouch for it as well. To further that efficiency of this, when

048I was pulled off of 122 as a sub, Mickey Grub, full-time retiree, was brought in and was placed on that bus. I went to the bus garage. He took over bus 122 and drove that bus in 20 uh 2020. Then the school shut down for COVID 19. And during that time of the school shutdown, I actively pursued a full-time route. I applied times for a bus route during the time COVID was was in place. Out of those 50 56 times that I applied, I applied for the current bus that I drive today, three times because of what Mr. Chapman was telling you. We keep getting bumped down, bumped down, bumped down in the seniority aspect of it all. So on March 26, we was informed I was informed that my bus route is being depleted

049and I'm being placed on a transfer list. What that does is put me back in the bidding war again. So according to your West Virginia code 18A 4-8B subsection H, it says decisions concerning a reduction in a workforce are to be made on the basis of seniority. Subsection J further states that when reducing the number of service personnel, the employee with least seniority must be released first. That's not my code. That's not a county code. That's a state code. >> That's a riff section. >> That's not a transfer section. >> Based on what I'm saying, it says seniority. >> That's a riff section, not a transfer section. Okay. >> So, um, also, additionally, West Virginia code 18827 states that when service employees are reassigned, it is to be the least senior employee infected. It doesn't

050say it's it's riff in there. It don't tell me that. That's not what I'm read. I'm reading seniority on as of March 20th, 2026. Based on the seniority list that was provided to me from transportation, there are 121 employees to date below me in seniority. 121. Bus operators. >> I'm sorry. >> Bus operators. >> Yes. All bus operators. 121 employees are on that are on list to date that are below me in St. Martin. So my concern is this. These statues do not they are not being applied consistently. If seniority is governed how positions are awarded then the they should also be governed on how they are depleted. So, I'm asking the board to redirect your decision and base it off of what I'm reading in those laws because those laws do not say to

051me that that's rifted. That's not what that says to me because I don't see the word rifted in 18A4B or 18A27 >> introduction and force. Thank you sir. >> The third one she was talking about specified transfer. >> Thank you for your consideration. >> Thank you. approach two were pretty well complet if if yes um if if an employees contract was being terminated and you all if your contracts were being terminated which they're not then there could not be a less senior driver who remained on the job. Okay. That's >> So that's your loophole. That's that's your loophole for getting around the seniority based off those laws right there. >> Well, that's what you're telling me. >> That's what the law that you just read says. So it says that before we eliminate your contract,

052there would have to be we'd have to eliminate the contracts unless senior drivers. A transfer decision does not have to be based on seniority. you're you're the run that you are assigned to is being eliminated, but your contract is not being eliminated. You're not being reduced in force. And so if if there were any reason that there were if your contract was eliminated, then that would we would look at seniority before we would eliminate your contract. Just like we look at seniority when we hire, we hire based on seniority, qualifications, and evaluations. So the seniority is really important and no one disagrees with that. Um and and that's how that works. But it doesn't determine um what positions they look at when they go out and decide we're going to eliminate a bus operator position

053or a teaching position or an aid position. Then they look at the person who's in that position to decide whether their contract is eliminated or whether they go on the transfer list. >> What gets me is that they're going off numbers. There's buses out there has got less numbers than ours. That's that's the thing. If you pull the video up and look at other buses, they have less numbers than ours. So that tells me that they're going by names instead of numbers. You understand what I'm saying? >> I I understand what you're saying and I think Mr. Keyser has testified that that's not what they did. >> Well, um if you if you would go pull video, if he's pulling the video, he's pulling videos on certain ones, but he's not pulling video on all

054of them. But if he pulls the videos on the certain buses, like the one on 462, if he pulled it on the same week, he would get that that number. two on 462. To me, that bus right there is not a cost effective and efficient. You understand? >> Does that make sense to you, Tom? Sense make sense to you? >> All right. So, then that bus should be combined with So, you drop that bus off, you add another bus to that or combine it with two other buses where she's going because she's going on Old Miller Road. She's dropping her daughter off. So somebody along the line in that office knows that you see >> Mr. Wright has a question for Mr. Miller. >> Yes. >> What was the third code that you said be

055Mr. Chapman was saying that the last one was not related. So I just want to get that so we'll make sure we're addressing the right codes so that we're understanding everything. Um, I utilize codes 18A-4-8B H. >> Wait, I'm sorry. >> Subsection J and I reference 18A-2-7 >> and that that last one that 2-7. What was that one? What did that one say again? >> On 18A2. >> Yeah, because the very last one Mr. Chance was saying that that's the one that was was not related to risk. So I just want to make sure that we're clear. >> Yeah. I don't recall what I said before what I said. >> Yeah. >> Okay. It's transferred. Okay. I just wanted to >> Yeah. All right. Thank you. >> Board member. Do you have any other questions

056for the superintendent or the employees? >> Uh you have one. >> Yeah. >> Okay. um trying to remember the wording. What I'm worried about is that when we did the study uh and then we used edgelon to do the thing. I'm I'm just concerned. I'm not saying that we are as a board, but are we vulnerable to the charges of of favoritism? And there's another one >> how about neatism? >> Retaliation. I I I'm just I have to worry long and I are always talking about how we forget things and because every time you use the word age I'm sitting there are you talking about 58 >> or 28 >> or years of experience that and and seniority you were using age and and low the word seniority but it's not the u but seniority

057is also in there but There there are two words in the grievance section. I know favoritism is one of them and you made that charge. We when we looked at this, we're trying to find out where do we have routes for only one or two students on the bus which you brought up where we have uh a lack of now the issue that you brought up about where you park your bus. we can't consider that because somewhere five years down the road you may not be right >> crowding and so that person that would not be a factor in that route >> correct >> so I I I have to just you know it's it's good for us right now but it's not a permanent thing but I I I'm I'm just concerned some of

058the things that you folks said I'm just wondering if the board office we as board are vulnerable to inefficiencies because of favoritism and other types of things which are agreed but u and and I it's just something that I I'm worried about here. >> Mr. Murphy, can I try to answer that question if you wouldn't mind? So, one of the reasons that we uh wanted to utilize an outside agency to take a look at our bus numbers was to be able to have that un bettered look at um you know how our transportation system was operating. So, they looked at uh the efficiencies within the transportation office itself. um how we had our routers scheduled. Um and if of course if you recall, one of the things that we did last year was we we

059restructured part of the transportation office, right? Um and a lot of that was because of the direct recommendations made by um Edelog in that that preliminary study when they when they were contracted to help us in optimization. They were also taking a look at ridership, true ridership, those types of things. And the recommendations for route consolidation while working with our transportation office came about by how they how we could reduce routes and consolidate routes. And so I understand and I hear um our operators here today uh based upon what you see on a daily basis where you see that there are inefficiencies and that's tremendously important. >> I challenge you Mr. Saxs to go on out there and get on them buses and see for yourself that we're not we're not here trying to you

060know trying to dishonor what you're doing. It's not that we see the inefficiencies and I would challenge you to go get on them buses and ride them. I would challenge Eric Keyer to get on them buses and ride them. Don't ride them in the mornings. Ride them in the afternoon. And these numbers right here that were pulled for February, March, and April, they may be true for those three days. However, at the beginning of the school year, I had 42 kids on my bus. Those kids don't ride every single day. Generally speaking, on a daily basis, I have 36 to 40 kids on my bus on a regular. And majority of them are lowincome kids and they ride my bus every day. I don't have any problems with them with those kids. But on those

061three days, those numbers may be correct, but that's not a correct everyday number for the kids. Elementary, probably pretty close. But for the high and middle school, that's not that's not >> long thing. I spent about four hours at the beginning of the school year this year dealing with angry parents because it drew a line slightly crooked. It puts the uh uh pulsack in my route and I spent four hours getting yelled at because edge logs. >> I'd also like to add that on this roster that was given to you in your packet at the beginning of the school year, I have a busy B daycare. There was nine kids listed on this packet. There was 14 kids missing that was not listed on this packet. what it was handed to me at the beginning

062of the year 14. So, is this packet 100% today? Maybe not because I know it wasn't at the beginning of the year, >> Mr. >> So, I apologize. I wanted to be able to finish. >> I didn't mean to interrupt you. I apologize. >> I understand. I apologize. But so what I wanted to say though is that that using a third party vendor they don't have those relationships that that have been that that is of concern. Um and so that that while the the the means by which the consolidations occurred may not be popular with everyone or may not even believe be believed to be the most efficient. It was what our the the vendor in which we had utilized uh based upon again their optimization for transportation public transportation systems all across the country

063had made recommendations to Mr. Kucker and his team to be able to say, "Okay, these are where we feel like you can optimize." And the other thing is that just because some of those routes may not have as many students based upon daily observations does not mean that through the optimization that they are slated to have more kids next year, right? Because obviously there's some consolidation and there's some rerouting and there's some adjustments to the routes, right? So I I do I did want to be able to adjust that. I I don't want that to take away from the perceptions that you feel obviously it's very concerning to me when you know you feel like the the culture within the transportation office is is how you described it. I think that that is something that

064that needs to be looked into to make sure that we have fully followed up as to why is that occurring. Um so I don't want to dismiss that. And also, ma'am, I I want to say, I know you're not going to believe this, but I've always said that I really actually would love to drive a school bus, and that's why I came out to the the school bus rodeo and challenged a few people, and I didn't do so well. >> No, I know. Oh, no. I know you're not. I'm just saying I'm just saying I'm not I would absolutely take you up on that offer to do some do some ride ride alongs. I'm just saying that I've always had a desire to drive a school bus. So, that's whenever there's an opportunity, a superintendent,

065I always sort of take it up. But I would absolutely welcome the opportunity to ride along with several of our bus drivers to be able to see it. So, >> and I have a question too related to what you were saying if if I may. >> Absolutely. >> And then if I may speak candidly. >> Sure. >> On March 26 when we had that meeting at the bus garage telling us our routes were going to be depleted. We were also told that you were instructed them to reel back on a $6 million charge for varsity that was played out in varsity. So my question to you is this. Last year you had a bill for $6 million. That's what we were told in that meeting on March 26. >> I actually think it was a

066little bit more than that, but yes. >> Well, 6 million is what we were told. So $6 million and they were instructed to reel that cost back in. And part of doing that is pleading these runs, okay? And the other ones that aren't here today. So my question to you is this. Why are we still using varsity instead of utilizing the buses that we have with one student on it? Okay. And there's many that are out there like that. And are we going to use it again in 26 27? >> I think it's a great question. Um and the fact of the matter is is yes. I I have given a directive that we need to be able to get our transportation expenditures that are outsourced under control because in the state of West Virginia,

067we get 87 12% reimbursement on all of our transportation costs. However, Berkeley County is one of the only counties in the state of West Virginia that caps that and we exceed it and we exceed it by about six and a half we exceeded about about six it was between 5.75 and $6.5 million last year and most of it is due to the outsourcing of transportation services. So yes, as superintendent I issued a charge that we needed to reel that in and we needed to get as many of our Berkeley County public school students on yellow bus service. So, we are in a nexus, right? We only have so many yellow buses. We only have so many yellow bus drivers even though we're continuing to hire. Even right now, I believe uh in the last couple

068weeks, we've been trying to do some hires. Is that correct, Mrs. Hensel? >> So, we still know we need to hire bus drivers, but for every varsity route that we can reduce and put on yellow bus service, that's going to save us close to $100,000. >> Good. >> So, that's what we're trying to accomplish. And that and if we can reduce that expenditure of six nearly $6 million, that means then we can put in uh incentives to recruit and retain bus drivers and employees in Berkeley County. That would be a significant savings that we can put right back to our employees. But right now we can't. So the question is is why haven't we done that in the past? It's because we don't have the we have not had the the the staffing or the

069infrastructure of buses to be able to take care of those requirements by law to either provide students uh transportation to their their school of origin or to wherever they are they need to go based upon their special education accommodations. So all of those things are state and federal requirements that we're having to comply with. But and here's the other thing. We have the largest bus fleet and the largest routes of any school district in the state of West Virginia. I believe our fleet surpasses Canal. Is that correct? We defin we exceed Canal who is the largest county by student population in the state of West Virginia by it something like it was either like 75 or 100 routes. you you you know now granted it's because our challenges are different and they're unique but we've

070got to find a way to control the the spending that is going to third party providers and that and this is not a slight to to Varsity we appreciate what Varsity has been able to do for us >> but there is no reason why we can't get more of our Berkeley County kiddos on our yellow bus service and that's really what the root of this is trying to accomplish and I and I I I know that it's frustrating uh for you all being put in these positions of transfer But it is to make the system stronger and healthier and to provide more services to more Berkeley campus students. >> So we are we don't have the thing in place to get more bus drivers and we don't have the stuff in place to incentivize that.

071But we're going to displace a bunch of bus drivers in the meantime. Well, well, I I want to say we actually, you know, we're actually looking at a $2,700 pay raise for all service personnel. So, that's one thing that we're trying to do. We're trying to put more money into the pockets of our employees. Um, and of course, you know, we're obviously doing other things to incentivize folks to come. Um, you know, we we're doing the or to recruit, I should say. Um, and unfortunately when you're the least senior in a in a position, sometimes you you you are subjected to the es and flow of student enrollment changes and those shifts. And again, I I wish we had better flexibility to 18A when it comes to those staffing things, but but we have to

072adhere to it. And it doesn't it's not ideal, but I also understand where your frustration comes from. And I know firsthand being on transfers is not easy. Um, and it's it affords you a job, but it's not the job that you had or the job that you you want. So, um, >> well, just like this gentleman next to me, I I started here when I when I developed a disability, >> but as you can see, I've got another job. I actually work for Varsity also. I work for Varsity. I have three jobs currently. So, like I said, if I'm going to be displaced too badly, I'm just going to move on. And that's why I say you're going to stir up the hive rather than before everything's in place. >> Mr. Martin, >> yeah, I

073have a quick question from Mr. Chapman's concerns. Uh, Mr. Keys, I want like a flow of facts, not an argument or anything. Um, just this I don't know if you want to have a statement on just his concern of the other buses that have low wrership. If you can speak upon that, We took all the data that Ed log provided for us in that optimization study as far as what they considered um the changes to be made and then we drill down on that uh to come up with the routes that that were chosen and and it was it's based on ridership and how easily you can get those students on another bus. >> So >> no go ahead. >> Yeah. I mean on Are there still like looking at those buses that potentially have

074just a few students depending on the grade level like are there still with this after this trans after this transfer season I guess you could say um are they still are there going to be buses with those students on them >> that that's the one thing we also looked at is being able to take some students from a bus and put them on another bus just to be able to overlap in those areas. But these routes were identified through edge law. Okay. >> Um got more questions. >> So um the routes that um he's they're indicating that aren't full. Will they be full because of the this >> there will be more students >> and these the routes that we're posting, will they be full? >> Yes. and routes that we're posting are going to

075provide unique opportunities to getting more kids on our buses and all the way from third party contractors. >> I have a question. >> How many routes? Well, how many routes are being eliminated, changed? I guess >> there were 13 total and at this point right now we have 11 that were going. So those those 11 runs will be posted and these individuals will have an opportunity to bid by seniority and other drivers could bid on those and then their runs will open up. >> So it'll be a some more >> well any comments of bidding war in any positions I've seen in >> whether it's age 15. Oh my. >> So, correct my math here, but if there's 13 currently and there's going to be 11, that sounds like a reduction. >> Yeah. >> Two

076two of the drivers are no longer with us. >> That's how reduction. I'm not trying to be smart as I promise. I I'm trying to understand how it's not a reduction. >> Well, it is, but it's not yours. So that they just >> they've not they've not >> they disappear not they leave it away we don't have to worry about that anymore >> a reduction is if the recommendation is to the board to terminate a contract >> we did we didn't have that >> and and I I would also add that just because we don't add a route like so if it's was 13 and we're only adding 11 so two are through attrition because they retired or what have you then what happens is that when a route comes up that with let's say

077we can develop a route later in let's say in October that normally we would have had to contract through varsity. Well, either we can hire for it or we can h we can hire perm subs that are, you know, they're not dayto-day subs, they're a full full they're on a substitute contract, but they work so they can just be dispatched. That gives us the flexibility to do that as well. that I on these these routing sheets come out with every year that that they are so messed up. I just disagree with Eric that these buses are going to be full next year because these routing these routing sheets are so messed up next year which they are going to combine routes and stuff. I I just feel like he's saying that be full the new

078routes will be full because my husband was messed up for two years and I had to actually write it completely out on a separate piece because George Vines was supervisor starting out this year and I went to him and said hey it's completely messed up. He said write it out on a separate piece of paper. I said I will. So I wrote it out on separate piece of paper. Then the other supervisor took George and I I written my I had to reo the whole thing written it out because it was completely wrong. The routing sheet was completely wrong. So whatever you have here, it was my changes. So whatever they put out, it was wrong. They had five kids in one address on Loop Road on one address on Loop Road. I was that

079way for like four or five years. And the two years that I had this run, Miss Ferguson at elementary, Jerrytown Elementary said I had the only driver that was consistent and stable driver on that run. And I guarantee you, whoever's going to get my run is not going to have them kids at all. >> Any other questions from the board? >> That concludes this hearing for Mr. Mr. and Miss Milton. The board will vote on the superintendent recommendation as scheduled meeting water of Tuesday, April the 23rd. Thank you. >> Thank you for your time. >> Thank you, sweetie. We don't miss you. >> I'm sorry. >> Would you drink it soon? >> Thank you. Appreciate you. >> Thank you, sir. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> She has she starts in a regular lunch. She

080has a regular >> once I got hired full time as whenever my mom started. >> When I got hired as a standby. >> Okay. >> Thank you. um worth talking. >> Yeah, that's about bank and miss could come forward with her representing. >> Who's next? Miss Bang is that next. >> This special meeting of the board of education has called for the limit per conducting requested transfer hearings. The evidence be considered by the board shall be limited to the information provided by the superintendent's designate in support of his recommendations and information signaled by the employee. The hearing requests have been made by Manita Fin and Melissa K. Question requires county board of education to conduct hearings upon the written demand of the employee or employees who have been recommended for transfer. After the administration has

081concluded with their profer of evidence, the employees will be afforded an opportunity to present witnesses and evidence. The time will be afforded for the employees presentation shall be limited to 15 minutes. However, the written statements or documents may be submitted by the employee to the board for his consideration. At the conclusion of the presentation, the witnesses and board members will be provided with an opportunity to ask questions of the superintendent and the employees questions that are pertinent to this proposed personnel action. As the presiding officer, I rule on all evidentiary and procedural issues. Should any member of the board take issue with one of my rulings of procedures or evidence, he or she may put the matter to a full vote of the full board. While the strict rules of evidence will not be applied,

082evidence that will be germanine to the reasons for the proposed personnel action will not be allowed. This hearing will be recorded and those individual present representative please identify theelves for the record. My name is Kim Cory and I am the attorney for the administration. Uh >> Jason Koski, executive director, executive director of transportation. >> Karen, director of service functions on please represent. >> Thank you. with those individuals that plan to give testimony or to give testimony to please stand immediately. >> Do you swear that the information and the testimony you give today will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> Thank you, Mr. Pro. Please go ahead for reasoning of the proposed personnel actions on behalf of the administration. >> Yes. Thank you, Dr. Skoolie. Um, and I

083believe and if you all could just confirm that you have requested an open hearing. Is that correct? >> Um, yes. >> Okay. I interject real quick. I did not get this up. So, I have to leave in a few minutes. My I didn't think it would take this long. I really thought it would be in the evening. So, I have short time and I won't be considered to go back on the bus. That was seven days ago. >> Okay. And I I promise I will be quick. And I do believe that um both of you ladies were here for a good part of the prior hearing. So what you're going to hear me say today is duplicative. So I'm going to speak quickly if that's okay. You have in front of you members of the

084board of education and um Miss and Miss Pox have this as well. the letters that bring us here today as well as their contracts, their placement with the board of education, and most importantly for purposes here today, the number of riders on their buses. Both uh Miss and Miss Pods are aids, transportation aids assigned to buses within the county. Uh Miss indicated that she rides bus 124. And you can see on the information that you've been provided that there are uh four middle high school students that ride that bus and then three intermediate elementary students that ride that bus. And uh with Miss Pototts, similarly, we have that information. There are in the days that were examined most recently before the hearing, there were zero students riding the bus on one day in the morning,

085all three days in the morning and then from the middle high school then in between one or two students in the intermediate elementary school on the bus. West Virginia policy 24/19 and the special education laws require um students uh who ride buses who may have disabilities to have an aid on the bus. Um and those rules and regulations were taken into consideration when edulog looked at the efficiencies with respect to its transportation services here in Berkeley County. And so like u the previous hearing, the recommendation is coming to you for a transfer of these two individuals. Um they will still have jobs for next year, but their bus runs are being reconfigured and so there will be new positions that will be posted. They will be automatic applicants for those. Um but due to the

086low uh rider numbers on these buses, the the board can operate more efficient efficiently within the special education laws by creating different runs for the students to ride on. So that is why we're here today and that's an abbreviated version and certainly um these folks are here to answer any questions that you may have about that. Miss if you can read give you about 10 minutes we will warn you accept that 10 minute 15. >> Yes I am concerned about the transfer and seeing already. Um off the record some of the people I've talked to said I definitely will have a job hopefully in town. I live in town so my trying to stay close to home. I do have an autistic son. I have to get to work. That's why the time matters to

087me. and Penguin. He has said that 13 runs, there will be 11, but one of the bus drivers are leaving the design bus driver. That puts a flag up for me. So, I'm just concerned about where I'll be next year. I don't want to go back to classroom. I love being on a bus. >> And will there be transportation positions like this posted? >> Yes. >> There'll be bus aid positions posted. >> And your seniority as a bus aid is 2018. >> I'm sorry. >> And your seniority as a bus aid was what? Uh, I started as a um, >> oh yeah, on the bus. Yes. But I've been an aid in school system full time since 03. So that should >> be considered. >> And, and if I may, I think your seniority date

088is September 21st, 20 >> 2005. Correct. So, so she has a a very high seniority date and that that is provided to you all in your packet. >> Yes. Well, guess my question. So um cuz we talked about seniority previously. So the date that you gave would would be her seniority cuz with bus drivers >> it's is with bus aids it's different than bus drivers. >> It's it's all it's all seniority. So she has a very high senior. >> Okay. Okay. >> She's she's very senior. So she will get her >> pick up the litter so to speak once those jobs are posted at all likely. I think there are only um not even 10 drivers for 10 aids with the years a camp >> and I think Melissa's was back in the >> 1995

08996 I remember that well >> don't cut her out >> no I wasn't trying to cut her out >> and when I said that they try and stay it's not that I'm opposed to county but I do have an adult autistic son that I use virtual wisdom So that's why staying is first up is important in >> town. Do you have any other >> Thank you. Psy representative. >> Well, hello. Of course, you know, my name is Melissa Pods. Um, I've been a transportation aid for 20 years, and prior to that, I worked in the classroom for 10 years with Berkeley County Schools. I truly love my job and the students I work with. I take great pride in my work, relationships I have built with the students I serve. When I applied for my

090current position that I am in currently um 17 years ago, it was assigned to a bus, not a not to a specific route, a group of students or schools. Over time, and with the increasing number of special education students, my route has been altered and changed many times through the year. For example, in 2009, a route started out picking out students in the Hedgesville, Martinsburg area when a second bus was needed to take BD students to the T. Since that time, our route has changed immensely. Over the past 20 years, our bus has transported Sweden Sweden and from Tomahawk, Hedgesville Elementary, Hedgesville Middle, Hedgesville High, and PTOIC. We have driven in many areas including Joe Jones spring. Sorry. That's why I had to write it down. Sorry. Um, Alensville Road, Canon Hill, Providence Church Road,

091Oakrove School Road, Mountain Lake Road, Budsill Road, Cherry Run, Rustic Tyvern, Camp Frame, Welltown Road, Bridge Road, North and South. Um, and even as far as Kitchen, Orchard Road, and Falling Waters, just to name a few. There are also several buses in our area serving these same schools, which makes it even more confusing. I do not find the explanation that our route is changing more than 50% to be convincing. Special needs transportation is constantly evolving. Routes, students, and needs change all the time. This is not new. Additionally, I am not aware of any current students on our route who are moving or will no longer require bus services next year. What also does not make sense is being told not to worry that we will still have a job next year, possibly even in the

092same area or in a better situation. While at the same time, our current route is being eliminated if changes are needed. Why not adjust the route as has been done in the past rather than placing us on a transfer list? Simply adjusting the routes would allow me and my bus driver whom I have worked with for the past eight years whom is also my cousin um we can you know it lets us continue to work together as a team or an effective team which benefits the students. Additionally, I would like to express a related concern regarding the possibility of future changes to transportation aid positions in the trans if the transfer is approved. Specifically, I am concerned that bus aid roles are now being posted as transportation classroom aid positions. If such a change occurs,

093I respectfully request that I be grandfathered into my current role as a transportation aid only with no requirements to work in the classroom in consideration of my seniority in nearly 30 years of service to Berkeley County Schools. From day one, service personnel are taught that seniority matters. That is why the situation does not add up to me. I believe transparency is essential not only for those directly affected but also for maintaining trust among service professionals. Allowing those in charge of transportation to eliminate routes when they could instead be adjusted as they have been in the past creates the potential for unfair practices. Staff members who are less favored could be targeted for elimination while others may be given more favorable assignments even if their routes are changing more significantly. Since almost any route can be

094classified as changing more than 50% from year to year, special needs and personnel could be selected arbitrarily. If personnel decisions are influenced by personal preferences, it is disrespectful to long-erving employees such as myself and raises concerns about fairness. This erosion of trust ultimately harms the retention of dedicated employees within transportation in Berkeley County system. Sorry. I respectfully request that my transfer not be approved and that my bus route be adjusted rather than eliminated as has been done in previous years to continue meeting the needs of the students. Thank you for your consideration. >> Mr. key sucker. Uh the bus aid positions that will be posted for they just be for bus aids just as on the on the bus are they going in the class? >> No, I think two of them will be posted

095to go in the classroom and the others we have >> two two will be in the classroom. the other I think it's six >> six we'll have six other bus runs for special ed kids that are going to grab and hall and they will not go to the classroom >> okay >> questions for the ladies >> that bus I was about to ask so wait so you so this >> so there's those four bus runs are going to go to Grafton >> yes we have >> all four of them >> yes we have 30 students that go to Grafton Winchester >> and two of These runs will um >> service um special ed kids in an area. Um we kind of divided it up half Spring, Hedgesville, and then Muscleman Martinsburg. We're going to serve

096as special ed students plus um give an opportunity for the visually impaired um to have a almost like a center. >> So there's two runs that are >> they're going to stay in the county. >> Yeah. that they're going to also go in the classroom >> and that defeats the we're not led to believe that we would have to go back. >> Excuse repeat that. So >> at the the previous meeting at the bus card, we were not led to believe we would go that I mean I'm under the impression that there will be enough runs where I can stay on a bus hopefully within a certain radius and now he's saying perhaps I'm kind of just a little bit concerned but what is going to be I mean I know it's not May and

097it's not posted yet but what are possibilities? >> Yeah. So what are the possibilities? just what you said >> there. There will be one extra run going to Laurel Hall and we're dividing that up in the county and then there will be we have one run at Grafton now and we're going to add five more to take over to take those students but they're from all over the county. >> So the other two that are in county they're only going they're going to be bus and classroom. There's nothing that's going to be just bus up other than they going to grab it. >> Yes. >> However, there could be individuals that bid on that that have seniority that opens up other >> runs that don't have those those things. But so there are other runs

098that are going to be uh I'm going to basically try to get are there going to be any runs that are going to be similar to what they have now where they're just on the bus and not going to Grafton or Laurel Hall or whatever. >> Well, so say for instance um another aid would bid on a Grafton run and that opens that aid's run up. You're not going to repost that run with and add uh >> classroom to it or what what's this? What's >> Well, I think it all depends on how close it is to a school that needs the service of a classroom aid. So, if it's a run that we can't effectively get to in time or it takes their driver way out of the way, we're not going to post

099it as bus and classroom. I I I I want to be able to also provide clarification because I know that was something that that um Miss Pots you you brought up and that is is that there is no desire to unilaterally take for example all bus aids and make them bus and classroom ECATs where there what Mr. Keyscer is indicating is accurate is is that if a run comes open and there is also a need for extra duty coverage in a school, we may at that point opt to have a bus and classroom ECAT, but it's not in every scenario and it's not the desire to have all all positions that are posted be posted that way because we don't need them like that. I mean, we don't we're trying to we have to be

100able to create positions based upon where the student need is. And so when we look at the route optimization of and efficiency of the routing to answer your question um apologize Mrs. I think um we have to be able to allocate positions based upon what the student need is, right? And so if let's say the two class bus e bus classroom ECAP positions are filled with an existing uh bus aid that is not in an area where perhaps uh we need an additional classroom assistant for a part of the day, then that would be posted as just a regular bus aid. Okay. Now what we have found is that there are some bus aids out there that are actively trying to get these positions because your hours go up, right? And you can be able

101to get the time and a half. And so some of those positions are highly soughta whereas some positions may be more unique where they need the flexibility, right? And so to sit here and say today exactly what is going to be posted beyond the the uh the six positions I believe it was um it would it wouldn't be right for us to be able to assume what will happen but there is always going to be a waterfall effect. There's always going to be something where something else is created that may have the flexibility that a specific individual is looking for. I know that may not bring you peace of mind today, but um I think that with the the number of positions we normally have to post and we know that there are um bus

102aid positions that are going to to naturally open up, um I would be optimistic that you will find something and that we could work something out that would fit your specific needs. I know that doesn't bring you the assurance you're looking for today, but I want you to know that I hear that challenge and I also see the what you've done um and and the service that you continue to provide even today. Putting your kids first means the world to me. And so, you know, I think that's something we can work through is just to be able to help you find the right position for your your circumstances >> that you need to go. My point of clarification would be that if we're on this transfer, because they had told us at the other meeting,

103we want to apply for every single job and keep applying during the summer. >> I was just going to make sure that that can >> right. But come school starting in August, if a better run comes up, we can transfer, but that would only be once a semester. >> Yes. >> So I I could literally be stuck on a bus ride going to Grafton, which affects other things. where I could put it for transfer or will her and I have a chance to better transfer and transfer more than once a semester because of the situation. >> I'd like to ask a clarifying question to help help that. What she stated is accurate, correct? Is is that they can only transfer once, but however, the superintendent can't override that. Is that correct? >> That is correct.

104>> Thank you. So again, my commitment to you, you took the time to be here today for us so that we could hear your concerns. you have my commitment that I will work with you along with our HR team to make sure that we can we can help you navigate that together. >> And again, I'm not against doing the longer runs. I just have our first >> completely understand. Yeah. >> Well, now's a good time. I'm going to sliding forward. >> Thank you for Thank you. >> And I have a question if you don't mind. And and I do appreciate that you want to make job postings so you can put them where people are needed. Um but when so if somebody retires that job comes open up it becomes posted you are one of

105the higher up ones but that job will likely have transportation slashclassroom if it's for a normal school run >> that's what I just asked and could not necessarily >> not necessarily but many of them have been and that is probably one of the biggest concerns um through this process because you know your route It has changed as as you talked about, but to be given assurance that you'll not be asked to go in the classroom. Um, with that many years service, you did your time in the classroom. Um, and and and Grafton, I'm assuming, is is that a favorable run? Would you want to go to Grafton? Would many? >> No. >> So, it it is just very concerning. She's been here for 30 years. So board members, I hope you do take that in

106consideration, especially with the bus run can be adjusted to meet the needs of the students. That's what's always been done. So I'd say that's probably the biggest concern is is we didn't realize before today that Brackton was a possibility. And then you know you already were worried about the classroom slashtransportation aid position as well. >> Mrs. Henry, thank you for that. Um, I'd like to ask Karen Hensel a question. Miss Hensel, this over the last school year. >> How many um when when it's come to posting jobs, how many bus classroom aid positions have we posted compared to regular bus aids? >> Three classroom bus aids. And how many regular bus aids have we posted? >> Uh, we only had three runs this year. >> Oh, so so all three were the best classroom aid

107positions, but what about from the summer last year? How did that work? You think that over the summer was there many posted? >> We didn't have many posted last summer. >> We didn't. Okay. Um I I do want I do want to publicly say that it is not our desire to automatically post positions as classroom aids. I've said that from the very beginning. And so again, it's only if there is a again a student need in a school and the and the route is close and and it works. So um again, I want to go back to that. The other thing is is that because um Mrs. Pototts is on transfer, uh even if the route that she most desires does not come to that the route that she's looking for is never posted that

108she's that she finds is the most ideal or what have you, she is still employed by the school district. And so I mean it's not like she would be put on she we can't riff riff that position even if she's not found the right position for her yet. But she is guaranteed appointment and we will work with her to try to find the right match um up until that time if it takes that long. Hopefully it doesn't. Hopefully something comes to fruition sooner than that. But we will definitely work with her as I mentioned to Mrs. Fank. we will work with her um to try to make sure that um we can find her a position that works well for her and um is highly desirable. >> Um Mr. Keyer, how long are what's the

109length of time of those breath and runs? >> Generally, it takes 45 minutes to uh pick the students up that we have. Um and they have to be there by 8:30. Um, and then in the afternoon the bus uh picks the students up at 2:30. Generally have them delivered by 3:30. They're done by 3:45. How many current third party providers do we have transporting students to Grafton? There are 30 students transported by varsity by van. Um, and I would say it's we're going to be able to get about 20 of them on regular routs. So you're talking probably 20 vans. >> So uh the um eight on these runs that are going to Grafton will continue on a van. >> No, they would go on to yellow bus. Yellow bus. >> Yellow bus. Okay. >>

110And what is our um estimated cost per RD route? >> You you hit it on the nail. It's 100,000. So, uh, how many students will be on those graft and runs? >> It'll be 16 to 20. >> Okay. So, that will take away a lot of >> and we're doing another um we're going to take over all the Laurel Hall students also. Um, and we're dividing that those two buses in half of county. So, we can get those >> and there'll be a bus eight on those. Yes. >> But they will not go into class. Okay. Any questions from the >> I'm just Mrs. Parks and Mrs. Fank has such a high seniority, but they cannot laterally bump somebody in another round. >> Service doesn't have bumping. >> Okay. >> That's the difference between professional

111and service. >> I know. >> It's another frustration with 18A that the superintendent >> I was frustrated. I got bumps years ago. And but I always said for professional I was a good law was a terrible law that's Keith but your >> I was well I was both and I finished my last three years in seventh grade that was not majorly but I I I was just surprised and service time I have to say >> well that that's my question because there are so many Hedgesville routes. I just don't understand how ours was come. I I understand you're not going to pass yard. Okay, I get that and I get that you need to condense. That's that's not the issue. However, how did Ararat come to this? >> And who what driver are you with?

112>> Right here. >> Okay. >> And I wanted to talk with her, but they wouldn't let because my arguments are the same as hers. Can I talk? >> Says later. He >> has a hearing. I'm >> Do you have a hearing later? >> Same thing. Do you have to go get our kids? So, probably be beneficial to let me talk. Now, >> I think the problem is that you had requested a separate hearing, I believe. Um, so >> I didn't want to be with the other bus drivers cuz special needs is not the same birth. >> Yeah, I know. I want that opportunity to >> Does he have a son, Mr. Kucker? >> Not unless he put his absence in. >> What time's your run start? >> I should be able to leave here about

113quarter after >> Tom. Do you have any high school students? >> No. >> I say you have plenty of time. >> Okay. >> What time? >> If we get out here about 2:15, we'll be okay. >> Yeah. I just have one question. Um, excuse you, you mentioned the sensil the three classroom bus aid positions for this year. How many more are we anticipating for next year? >> Well, it depends on what um routes we have that are near schools that need extra help. >> But is it is it >> we look at them on a case by case basis for the bus a jobs? I just wasn't sure if it was maybe uh Bury County School's um thought pattern is to try to combine more of those positions. >> Well, I think that if if

114there is a a position where we have to hire a bus aid and we need some additional assistance and we have to hire a classroom aid, consolidating that and giving that support obviously reduces overhead cost. Yes. So anytime that we can again provide that. The other thing is it does is that for some of our transportation aids they they desire those because it does increase their compensation pretty significantly. And so >> it's it can be a win-win but it's obviously not perceived as a win-win when it's when someone does not want that. They would rather the route. But we again have to be able to make decisions on what's going to be best for our students. And I will also say that one of the things that that we've tried to add those positions are

115where our prek centers are. So we've really tried to focus on so for example I think maybe the two that that Mr. Ksecker was was referencing are probably for the new Hedgesville. Is that correct? So that they have some floating ECATs there uh to be able to help with different services and those types of things. So that's more than likely where those positions have gone. And I'll I'll also say that most of those have been filled, I believe. So, >> well, I I do think the individuals that uh because I've talked to them because they were concerned about it, but the individuals that have taken those runs took them because it increases their they have a lot of seniority, increases their retirement benefits, but that's always a choice. That's not Some people don't want that.

116So, not that they don't want it, that they just don't want to go in the classroom. And I guess I guess in responding to the question u Mr. Cuser we're talking about bus 92 is that correct? Um you provided information that on four days dates in February, March and April there were zero middle or high school students who rode in the morning or afternoon and there was one um intermediate elementary one day and then two students each of the other days. In the last couple weeks, have you had an opportunity to look at those numbers? Are those still the same numbers? >> They are. They are still the same numbers. Zero high school students and one or two elementary students. >> Is that the reason why you looked at doing something different with this classroom?

117>> Yes. So currently our high school student um she's not been she's a senior and she has not been writing because she is in theater. Um so her mother has been taking her and picking her up and at the beginning of the year we had eight students. So as you know special needs moves in and out. some call them, you know, frequent flyers that they'll move frequently. So, with that being said, by Christmas, we were down to just the three. So, this isn't, you know, it's not all the time. And I'm not the only bus in Hedgesville that only has a couple of kids. Um, I you know, and I know you're not going by seniority, but I am the senior aid in the Hedgesville area. Um, he is the senior driver to most that

118are in the Hedgesville area. So, when I question it, I just don't understand because you can take 13, we'll just say 132. So, you're going to give our kids to 132. You could have easily given 132's kids to us who house his aid and the driver have less seniority than us. That's you know that's just where I'm coming from. So I guess the question and as especially since Edelog worked on these with you all the transportation department they didn't they weren't looking at seniority they were looking at >> routes I'm I'm just questioning I'm not criticizing I'm just trying to understand they're they were looking at routes not because they don't have any idea who has any seniority Why why was the question she raised? You have two routes. One route has more senior people

119on it. The other route less course. Why wasn't the less senior route eliminated and and put over on the more senior route? >> It was all about numbers. based all of our decisions on >> three and four is still four and three and it's called the community property and we're talking about you mean >> well we I mean if we were going to do that then we would have looked at other things even on the bed net buses so it wasn't based on seniority at all just based on numbers >> so did we look at all uh what Melissa's talking about did we look at all the Hudgesville routes special ed routes in that area and they all have the same number. >> Yeah. >> So, give me a for instance of what some of

120the other numbers on those other buses. >> We probably the routes in Hedgesville, the ones that are out furthest um have anywhere from four to six students on them. >> All of them >> now. >> Yes. Yeah. >> So, so I think part of the part and you're doing great is is the question again, why couldn't it just be adjusted? Yes, you can do this legally, but should you to somebody with 30 years with Berkeley County Schools. She's a great partnership with her driver when um it it's just part of of retention and feeling that they're needed and and a small adjustment could have avoided all this. Um this I mean you can see her face. There's a lot going through this right now. It's hard. >> Excuse me. I'm sorry. >> You did good.

121>> Can we um transfer some students from those other runs to this run? I mean, is that does that make >> efficient? >> Well, um, how does that affect the student those of students on those other runs? Would we have parents ready to >> No, and I don't think the parents I mean they they they're right. They do a great job. They do a lot of everyone in Edville does a great job, but it was just about the numbers and we don't look to see there's there's nothing that stating there going to be any more students in that particular area. >> Well, I just that's just my concern. I just think we need to look at the changing some of those students around. >> How many students are are permitted to be on those special

122education buses? >> We have some some that have 10 on them on a single run. Um the way it works with special education is that if you're more of an in town run, you have more kids because you can get to these stops quicker. But if you have like um they're around 92, they go out a bit waste. So it's hard to put a lot of students on because they're limited in the time that the students could be on bus. Um however, those other buses in that area have more students on them because of their routing and where they live. So if you put more students on their bus, it would increase the time that those students that they go outside of the the town to get it would they're on the bus time, >>

123right? >> Well, those kids still have to be picked up though. And but it it's hard too to talk about numbers with the students. You don't know exactly, like you said, a lot move in, a lot moves out. Um, yes, you can justify this with numbers, but your staff, the people, the students. I mean, I'm I'm asking that you take that into consideration as well with this situation because it is unique. It's different for the special ed bus aids. >> How many special runs do we have now? >> 70. >> And there's how many in the Hedisville area? You know, there's more than that. >> Well, I mean, on the northwest side, there's more than that. >> And they all have >> we all crisscross. We all run. >> Well, that's my next question. So,

124they crisscross. So, why can't if they crisscross, why can't you put some of those kids on another book? >> Well, I I would disagree that you crisscross. Uh you guys have the farthest out. So, I mean, you're not going to crisscross 132 or 111 immediate area. >> Oh, sorry. Mrs. Well, I have a question. Um, based upon your experience with grievance board decisions, if we were to make a decision, if if if we were to have chosen a different bus based upon the suggestion here, would that have opened the district to liability from agreements from someone else because we did not go with enrollment rather than something else? Yes, it would open the board up for possible liability if you made your decisions based upon who was in the position versus the position itself. The

125first thing that you look for when you're eliminating a run or eliminating a position in a school is you look at the position. Do you need that position? And if you do not need that position, then you look at the people that are serving in that position or the person serving in that position to determine whether that person has enough seniority to keep a job or whether that person has to have their contract terminated. And so if you, you know, make your decisions based upon our heartstrings, which we all want to do, um, even in this case, we we're not permitted to do that by law. We have to look at the position first. Now, there are a lot of things that could happen. They're exactly correct. Special education is a a moving animal. um

126and there are students that can move in, students that can move out. Even if the recommendation is accepted, if there's a reconfiguration, maybe some of those other students leave and and runs have to be combined, the board has until August the 1st to resend any decision that it would make, which would, you know, put Miss Pots back on the run that she serves right now. I guess my question was um why didn't we consolidate some of those runs in that area um instead of um you see what I'm saying? Why do you >> I understand if I can try to attempt to answer that though. >> Yeah. Is that we we could move kids around but we also need to reduce the number of routes. Okay. So we had so we actually you know part

127of it was also reducing the number of routes to get more to be able to open up the flexibility for this uh pulling more kids into yellow bus service so we can move the kids around but it would not have solved the problem of actually reducing a route. >> Okay. Well that was what I was trying to get to. >> Okay. I apologize. I just that's what I thought you were asking but I want to make sure. >> I never know how it comes out. I know it's in this little head but any other questions? >> Yes ma'am. Dr. Splin, if >> there are no other questions, that's concluded this hearing. Uh, the board will vote on the superintendent's recommendation. It's regular schedule meeting tomorrow, April the 21st. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank

128you, ladies. >> Not sure if this guy's >> Mrs. Van, you're next. Do you have do you have coverage? You do. I guess the question is is would you permit Mr. Snider to go ahead of you or would you like to go ahead and do your hearing? >> You You don't have to. I just want You don't have to, Mrs. Van. I just >> No, you don't have to. >> Okay. >> Coffee. You you've already heard most everything. Uh my name is Think. I'm sorry. >> I forgot. >> All right. We'll give you the important facts to start with. This is a special board of education meeting for the limited purpose of conducting requested transfer hearing. The evidence will be considered before the board be limited to the information provided by the superintendent or designate

129in support of his recommendation and the information presented by you the employee. This hearing has a request made by Mr. Thomas Snder of Western New Code required Board of Education conduct these hearings public employee has been recommended for transfer after administration concluded with their profer of evidence. The employee will be afforded opportunity to present and evidence the time to be afforded for the employees presentation be limited. However, the written statements or documents may be submitted to the employee to the board for its consideration. At the conclusion of the presentation of the witnesses, the evidence, the board members will provide the opportunity to ask superintendent and the employees question pertinent to the proposed personnel action. Uh, this hearing will be recorded. Um, and anyone presenting information, if you would please rise uh, and raise your right

130hand. You swear that the information you give today is the truth. >> I do. I do. Nick, we'll begin with Miss to be able to identify ourselves from the parties here. >> Thank you. My name is Ken McCroy and I am the attorney for the administration and Jason Kenowski is will be back beside me. He's the executive director of human resources. >> Eric, executive transportation. >> Eric, director of police personnel. >> And Mr. understand you requested an open hearing. Correct? Yes, sir. Thank you, Miss Crow. >> Uh, thank you. We are here today regarding Mr. Snider's request for a hearing on his proposed transfer and sub subsequent reassignment. Um, I know that the board has heard this again before, but Mr. Snyder is entitled to his own hearing. So, I'll be very brief. You have

131in front of you um the transfer letter that he received that brings us here today. you have his assignment documents as well as his contract. Um, you also have within that packet of documents, documentation of the students that he transports as a driver, bus number 92, and then you have the official um list of students that are assigned at the beginning of the year to his bus. And a copy of those documents has been provided to Mr. Schneider as well. The reason for his transfer is the elimination of his bus run due to low enrollment on it as well as efficiencies within the transportation department. By eliminating this run and reassigning those students, um the board can more effectively and efficiently serve the students of that end of the county um with fewer buses basically.

132So Mr. Snider because of his seniority would be placed on the transfer list and he would be an automatic applicant for any positions that come open within the county. As I explained before, if the board were to accept the recommendation and um student needs dictated otherwise and there were a number of students that were required to be picked up by that bus and with this route, then his uh proposed transfer could be rescended on or before August the 1st. And I know that Mr. Snder has a bus route to get to. So happy to answer questions, but we'll leave the floor that we serve. >> Uh, Miss Boss, I'm grateful for may have a lot of the same things. So I'll try not to be redundant in my dissertation, but uh at the same time

133being speaker, I got kind of state where I'm at if y'all understand that. But uh I'm also a pastor and I'm pastor and that's how one of the reasons I took that route. I was recruited for that route. I was driving regular needs. Terry Force at the time. Melissa kind got me off the route and special needs. One of the greatest things that ever happened to me uh physically, mentally, spiritually. Uh we've had part I've did funerals for families in the area. I'm the bus liaison for Hitchesville High School. Uh we've got in other words, I'm deeprooted in the community without trying to put personal things. At the same time, I know this is a management call and personalities and personal lives don't really mean nothing. But um there has something to be said. I've

134raised money for wheelchairs. We we do the backpack thing. We uh we've done everything uh in the community. So I'm not just a bus driver, okay, in the community with the schools, Hesville Elementary, Tomahawk, and the high school. Much in I believe blue and gold. uh into everything. So with that being said, when I come over and took special needs, being very happy with where I was at, but with the opportunity to work with Melissa, there are some years the reason I'm involved is because I pulled my hair out. All right? You know, there are just special needs. I've got involved from hauling wheelchairs to uh very very bad kids been hit the whole nine yards. But um we handle it directly for the most part with parents and love and you know I'm very

135good at what I do. I'm not boasting but she is too. We've been doing this a long time. Having said all that my question here today is I know that you cannot keep talking about numbers. The special needs cannot be number of space. And I can give you the reference on that. At the beginning of the year, we were scared to death because the first thing that we were handed that we were going to clear down to the Spring Mills District and when Melissa got us, she got all upset. And I said, "Well, they can do that." Cuz when I took the job, Terry Force explained to me, "It's not a route. You can go anywhere." And I have picked up the kids from my house in Shanghai. I have had stop right across my

136road from my house in Shanghai. Clear to Alensville, clear to Morgan County line. And I can tell you what's happening right now. Right now we are loved. I thank the Lord for it. I enjoy it. But that don't mean that the phone don't ring today because we had a couple kids and it has happened to me that tomorrow morning I got to go back Cherry Run Road or the stops that I have camp frame. Can you imagine that cuz I've got people registered on camp frame. We have to go clear to camp frame. Now you shut my route down. I know they've done the numbers on this but you shut our route down. All right. in bus 132 or Bruce Cup's bus. Now they got to go 20 minutes out of their way to camp

137frame. Now that ain't just going to happen overnight. Okay? You know, now you got to go you got to go back to the edge camp. It's 15 minutes back in there off of there. So I do know that you got to do something. That's why you guys get the big bucks. All right? You got to be efficient. You've got to you got to do something. But my question would also be I've got one other guy what we call the northwest district of Hitchesville. All right. That's where we're at. There's four buses kind of four buses that cuz I've done all of them all them routes. That's Shanghai stuffs that kind of goes into the Muslim district. But from Shanghai clear down almost to the bus garage, I've had stops on my route. Not just can

138you help me out stops, but assign stops. Okay. Over the years, 92 is not the oldest. I think it is close to the oldest uh bus route. Like Melissa said, she was assigned to a bus, not a route. And that's exactly what they told me. It wasn't a route. And that's what Terry Force told me. He said, "Because I can send you anywhere. We're just blessed right now." I mean, that's, you know, we're we're paying the penalty for being blessed, but that don't mean that it don't change tomorrow. And having said that, so at this point, I'm the lowest route. That doesn't mean that 132 or one of the other buses go. Wait, I had something happen this year that ain't never happened before. We had three families move out and they had two kids

139piece. It was good for me. But that don't mean it ain't going to happen. Or the opposite has happened also. We get a phone call in the middle of the day. You know, I'm stopping kind of back by the Woods Resort picking up kids at the Woods Resort, which in some cases, and this is just the nature of the game, the other bus is turning around. We're turning around the same driveway. We're turning around with the same over the years that has happened to us. And I'm good with it because that's just the nature of the beast. And I just really wanted to express to you, I do believe it is number space, but maybe seniority ought be considered in this too. And it's hard when you're bumping somebody else. Is this a rifted position

140that should be? I don't know. That's up to y'all to decide. But this here is not the same as what the first ones were. You know, Eric already said, "Well, we do the numbers. If we didn't do this way, uh, we'd have to reloate at the general. But special needs is not regular. And I've come to love it and come come to like it, but I might would have to go back into regular ed, you know, because we've all got our things. I want to stay in the Hesville community where I'm at, you know, and I don't know how long I'll I'll do this, but I told him before, you know, um that's a good job for a pastor. It's a the insurance is why I'm here. I'll be slapped off. It wasn't for the

141insurance. I just got home from Uganda two days ago. I don't need to be here. I do it because of the kids financially. I do it for the insurance. Uh which that don't apply to none of you guys, but that's just why I'm here. But we are very good. But now I'm not a perfect driver. You find all kind of wrongs with me. But as far as family is concerned as far as treating the kids right, Eric, I'll tell you this. I've been doing this 18 years. Two kids I've suspended in 18 years. And most of the times I've taken routes when I was doing general ed because I go right with the parents and I've learned one key word with them. I I start my conversation. We got a safety issue and after you

142said it, I can just We just got a report of parents and with special needs, you need that report. Let me look. I think I've been low on time. Uh I know another thing was probably in this. He didn't say this, but we got the old SP and the route. All right. 92s just hanging on fumes. And I kind It's all right. I mean, it's got nature. It's got culture. Everybody knows it. But I was wondering if maybe that played a part in it, too. And I brought this up in the meeting and got shut down a little bit. The new buses that are coming out are air conditioning. Now, I know that works by seniority getting it. And I don't know whether that had anything to play with it or not cuz now one

143of the buses that's in the fleet, which he is senior over me, he just got a new air conditioned bus. I'm just saying if you look at the lack of students and you look at the age in the bus, I would agree get rid of us. But I don't think that's the only thing to be involved here. You also got to look at the senior because you could easily shut down 132 or you could easily I forget 10's bus, but you could you could shut down one of other buses. It don't have to be 92, right? 92 is convenient to shut down right now. But we have shared kids. There's not just one route. So that's my my story. >> Mr. Kucker. >> Um so they they were chosen um because of the number of

144students that they do not have. So, what if we um are we going to post their what if they get they in the fall or early summer, late summer that they got additional kids, uh we would repost that run, >> we would first take a look at is there another bus that didn't transport those students. Um we have buses in the area because we do reconfigure bus routes for special ed almost every year based on where students are. So that would have to come first and it would have to be you know pretty big argument not to put them on another bus. Well, I do know for a fact that what especially what he said like he could be picking up a student in a driveway and another driver comes and they're and that's some

145of the problem that we have. Another driver's picking turning around on the same driveway. So, a lot of crisscrossing there and uh but I don't know how we eliminate totally eliminate that as we're adding kids on. We need to definitely do a better job of where we're adding those kids, what routes. >> Yeah. Well, a lot of that is determined by where they're going also. >> Okay. >> They might not go to the same school. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> A question. >> And I I'd like to ask if it would be appropriate just a clarifying question based upon your argument is um let's say that there was not a recommendation for a transfer. Okay. You you had the lowest number of of students in that area, right? If we had made the decision, I

146just want to make sure I understand what you think is right and wrong so that I I can measure how I'm thinking about this. But if we were to not have done that and instead we would have said, okay, we're going to take a a route special ed route from the Hedgesville area and assign it to a Grafton run and you since you had the lowest number of students that you would have been the Grafton run. >> Well, I'm just saying would that would that have would that change anything for you? probably been high but you know if you continue my route my question can I answer that question absolutely answer hers at the same time okay so it is a different beast out there and it's a different beast everywhere but how it's been

147split and I've been listen my mom was bus driver back valley there's been a snider in back valley since there's been a white man back valley all right so literally because the sners were the first so I'm real familiar with the hesville district all right it's pretty well been divided up between on that end. It's been divided up back valley this way. Uh you got your east and west side and then you got route nine north and south side. Okay, we do go back and forth a little bit. So the the left side the foot base Martinsburg uh the north side route nine the cherry run the camp frame clear back up to uh the trailer court up at Mson's trailer court I didn't call that anymore but if if right now say the u

148south side of route 9 if you add so you get a call tomorrow and there's there's the route that goes to the Mson's report which we had at the beginning of the year. Now Brian Ken Dig or Bruce Cub is going you there's no way out of it. It is only one kid but they're going to have to run. They're going to add 15 to 20 minutes onto their route to go down there. And that's just the nature of a beast. I understand that. So over the years there are some you there are some that there were some years but God's really been good to me that I didn't get home 4:304 to 5 and then there's been years like this time I'm getting home 4:00 2 minutes till 4 less stress good it's just

149sometimes I got I had the wheelchair on camp frame and I'm doing for that young man blessing and just tremendous blessings But what I'm saying is, yeah, I don't that's what I tell him listen every year. We don't know. We don't know whether we're going to have a good run or a bad run. But we do know this. We work together good and we know people. We know all the schools. We know everybody. So, it's better than me just starting over. I I dread the thought of going into a bidding war again. I'm just too old for that stuff. But uh to go back in and have to crunch the numbers, see where I want to be and stuff like that. But it is what it is, you know. I understand. I understand management. You

150know, I drove I got a class A CDL. I drove I got a degree. I got a theological degree. So I understand where you guys are coming from. I just wanted to throw out here that special needs and that's the reason I requested a separate hearing. I heard all their complaints. I understand. Are y'all on that? It's a hard thing. But we're a little bit different. And my only question is I know why my bus was picked because it's an old bus and because of the numbers, but that's not will change tomorrow. Okay, that's just just and there I'll be drafted and I'll be really steaming that somebody got my because my route got posted and I can't get it back or I don't want to get it back cuz I got to wait a

151half a semester to go back down there and then I lost my aid, you know, maybe I can find some insurance someplace. I don't know. But that's my my thought, you know. Yeah, if I got a good breath, then I mean, you know, that's what I'll do for a while. But, you know, but I I I really don't have a few funerals in between. I got called today. I got to do a funeral this week in between services. Everything, you know, uh works. Plus, I got a teenage son that goes to Hesville High School virtual and sports, all that good stuff. So, I believe Blue and Gold like standing blue and gold district. kind of mean nothing but me and Cindy grew up together first grade obviously so I told her I'd be short so

152>> thank you sir >> thank you Mr. >> Schneider Melissa's already >> Tom Melissa already took the bus and left so >> I think he's bus go get the ordinance and bring it in to start playing I can do it >> thank you Mr. the hearing a vote on the super recommendations regular schedule meeting tomorrow 21st. Okay. This is a special meeting of the board of education for limited purposes of conducting world transfer hearings. Evidence will be considered by the board shall be limited to the information provided by the superintendent of in support of his recommendation information submitted by the employees. This uh hearing request has been made by Cynthia Van Dun. Washington code requires county board of education to conduct hearings upon the written demand of employees who have been recommended for transfer. After

153administration conducted concluded, excuse me, after the administration has concluded with their profer and the evidence, the employee be afforded an opportunity to present witnesses and evidence of time will be afforded for the employees presentation shall be limited to 50 minutes. The written statements documents may be submitted by the employee to the board for its consideration. At the conclusion of presentation of witnesses and evidence of board members will be provided with an opportunity to ask for attendance and the employees function to the third pro. Uh this hearing will be reported and I will ask anyone that will claim to give testimony during this time raise your rating. >> You swear the testimony about to give is the whole truth of truth. >> Thank you. We'll begin by identifying the parties. We'll begin with the administration coral.

154>> Thank you Dr. My name is Kim Cory and I'm the attorney for the board of education. >> My name is Jason. I am executive director of resources for the county school division director for personnel. Cindy >> thank you. Uh at this time if you give the reasons for the proposed personnel action. >> Yes sir. And and thank you Miss Van Dine for trading places for Mr. Schneider. That was very considerate of you to get those kids out there. Thank you on behalf of the board. I know um I provided to Miss Van Dy and the board has a copy of these documents in your packet, but it's what brings us here today and that is the recommended transfer of Ms. Van Dy who is a bus driver assigned to drive bus number 269. And

155you have the um letters that indicated to Miss Van Dy that the transfer would be recommended to the board of education and provided her the opportunity to have a hearing which she has exercised. You have her continuing contract for employment. Behind that are the assignments that she has had throughout the years. And then you have um a document that indicates how many students are being transported on her bus to both the high school, middle school, and the intermediate um and elementary students. And then behind that, those students that are actually assigned to her run and you heard earlier today, there are often times students who come in and come out of the school district. So what happens at day one may be different than what we see at day 125 or whatever day we're on

156um for school year today. But the recommendations for any sort of realignment must be made to the board of education on or before May 1st and that's why we are here. You have the transportation study in your packet from Edgeloft or at least a portion of that. And what it determined or what it helped determine was to provide a more efficient model of transportation for Berkeley County schools and where there were buses that were running that had low ridership. um recommendations for those students to be reassigned to other buses and bus runs to be reconfigured so that you could get the most or the the most students um on your school buses as possible yet still be efficient with that. And so what that means is that you wouldn't have a, you know, excess buses

157out there with just a few students riding them relatively speaking, but you could put the most students um most efficiently on your buses. You'll see that on Miss Van Don's buses, she has um between 20 and uh 25 high school middle students that are on the bus and then between 14 and 17 on average intermediate elementary students. And given those low numbers, the position that 69 269 position was the one um that is going to be eliminated. Yet her seniority allows her to maintain a position within the county. If the board is to accept the recommendation for the proposed transfer, then she will be an automatic applicant um for any posted position. Any bus driver position that comes open, she'll be considered an automatic applicant for that. And these folks are happy to answer any

158questions that um you miss Vandon would have or that the boards have. >> First of all, I want to change the numbers because I've had eight students in one week came onto my bus. So I now have 32 high school, middle school kids and 20 of the intermediate elementary kids. Um, I also have letters from parents and also have letters from parents and students that I'm going to give to you guys to read over. I didn't make copies of them, but my parents and I actually have a parent that's here today with me. Um, I've been on bus 269 for 3 years. Um, I started with my full-time run in Inwood, which was not a desired location for me because it was too far from my home and but I did go there and I

159stayed there till there was a run that was partial into uh the high school Hel and um and Eagle School. So I stayed there for a little over a year till the position came available for run out near my house which I live out in Buttsville Middle. So, um the Hedgesville Middle and High and Elementary and um Tomahawk are my preferred locations because and I do have grandchildren that are there too. So, um I finally got that one run and then the girl that was on there actually wanted the to come back. She didn't want to go to the new run that she had gotten. So, when 269 became available, I glad for that one and got that and she went back to her old run. Um, since I've been on this one, um, I

160have been really close with all the parents and all students. Um, I have a personality that I greet every one of my kids every morning. Sometimes they're in a grouchy mood. Sometimes they don't say anything, but I do say smile, say hello, tell them to cheer up. I do all that stuff with these kids. Um, I even do that. I bring transfer kids from Edgesville Elementary over to another bus to town. Um I do that with those kids. Um I carry the baseball team from the high school over to the field when they have their practice or games or whatever. I bring those over. So I'm always talking with all of those. I have I have the personality that I I stay with the kids and I talk to them. Um, my work ethic. I

161I think this is a big thing because I know I was told not to say anything about that before, but the driver that is taking my route has a tendency of always being off. And I do whatever I can. I answer the phone when administrator, when the bus garage calls, I answer my phone. When, you know, if they call me and ask me to fill in for another run, pick up kids, bring them over. If somebody's stuck in traffic, I offer to bring the kids from Tom or from the elementary to Tomahawk or vice versa, whatever we have to do. I work with them. the other driver does not um you know um see when um when I was doing um I actually subbed for like 3 years before I started with full-time and I

162actually subbed so that I took off with the FFA kids and went on trips with them and so we have shaper road um I at one time was on a long-term sub position for um for special needs bus. And at that time, Donna Miller worked in the bus garage. And we have certain people who will only do certain areas and they have certain subs that will only drive special needs runs. And she used to pull me off of that special needs run that was mine and put me on a regular bus so that I could drive that for the day. And she put one of those special needs drivers on there. um the union rep kept coming to me and telling me that what I was doing was wrong and that I should file some

163kind of a petition against the fact that they were pulling me and doing that. I did not do any of that because I am a person who helps and I didn't see to me I wasn't doing anything wrong to the union I guess I was or the other people that I I was but to me I wasn't because I was filling the position and helping and getting the kids where they needed to go. Um my other thing is my attendance. Um I hardly missed any work. If you go back 2017 and full mine, the only times you will see when I was off is when I did take off for the FFA and those things were put well in advance. Um, so most of you know my husband had cancer last year. the driver that

164is actually taking my run, who is sort of my family friend, I guess I would say. Her her parents were having family friends and never once offered to take my run when I had to go with chemo for him. I had a sub, sorry, I had a sub who knew nothing about me, came to me and said, "Anything you need, I'll help you." But this girl didn't. So, um, so then we talk about sedority. Um, basically we were technically hired. I were hired the same day. I just chose to stay a sub because I was doing the things to help cover with the trips and stuff. And I think it gave me a greater advantage of doing multiple runs a week and I got lots more of experience as far as driving Martinsburg, Inwood, Spring

165Hills, Hajesville where, you know, she went directly to one run and that's the run she continued. So, I got to meet a lot of people, do a lot of things and that's kind of stuff. Um, oh, let's see. But I was ready to stop all that. I I wanted to have something that was permanent with my grandkids coming into the schools. I wanted to be closer with them, to help with them, doing stuff for them, that kind of things. So, when the runs became available, I went ahead and did all that. Um, I did have problems with my bus friend when I first started. Um, the bus driver that was previously on there told me that he never did discipline, never corrected anybody. So, it was a little bit of a struggle the first couple

166weeks, but I have I didn't take it to like administration. I went to the parents. I talked with my parents. I've worked with my parents. Um, one of my parents in here, she wrote in here and told you guys that her son had problems every day. Every day she was getting told her son did something until I got there. We had a couple issues. Once those issues were solved, for the next two and a half years, we have not had a problem with this boy at all. And him and I have a great relationship. We joke around and carry on all the time. Um, so like I said, I did get the bus under control. These kids, we we laugh, we joke, we carry on. Um, if I have any problems, concerns, I go directly

167to the parents. I have they're everyone. I do group texts. If I'm going to be late, if I'm going to be uh off, I send parents notes so that they're a message so that they know that it won't be me that's there, that they know to look for another bus. Those kind of things. And I do know that there have my kids have told me that other kids from another bus have told them that the driver doesn't like them and that they that's why she blew my car to run. And then I have a high functioning autistic child and I know how to calm him down just by talking to him and I have a great relationship with his parents and that his mother will actually tell you that in there too. Um he does

168not like noise and he will start to scream while we are driving down the thing and all I have to do is start saying his name. I say his name two or three times and he looks at me like it's okay and he will calm down. So, um, and I actually had, um, a group or parents that actually tracked me down at orientation one day to ask me if I also did Cherry Run Road and I told them yes because they had um, known heard about the other driver and they did not want their children riding her bus. So, they asked if I would stop to pick them up. So, I do actually pick those children up and I have been doing that for two years now with those kids. Oh, and then um I

169also have one of the other drivers children that she called me about at the beginning of the year and said that she couldn't pick the kid up, pick the child up because it was unsafe. So, she gave me all the information. So basically I called the mother told the mother, "Okay, well she's going to be coming out the same road I'm coming out, so we'll just meet here." So we just meet there. She walks in across the road and she's there to pick him up in the evenings. That would have been the same thing she could have did, but she didn't glad to try to even go to the other parent and say anything. So, um, and I think if, uh, you all take the time and actually read the letters from the parents, from

170the kids. I even have the one little autistic boy. He wrote a letter. So, you I'd love you to try to read it. But, um, but with that, um, and if I could, you guys want to say anything? >> Um, just in full support, Miss Cindy, my daughter's been riding her bus, and I'm sorry, I'm Katie. My daughter's been riding her bus for three years and she's been full time. Um, we've been through her husband's cancer. We've been as full support. Mr. Brown who subbed for her was excellent. Um, always very communicative. Um, still always very communicative. Um, so we just for charity run and also in support of 92 because 92 is there every day, very on time. Um, Cindy's there every day on time. will message if she's running behind for any reason

171at all as a parent work from home. So, I appreciate that. Um, there's many others that don't. Um, and if for whatever reason we're stuck in traffic, she will help out. She will wait a dollar gentle. I can meet her there sometimes if that's needed. Um, she goes above support. >> I'm pretty sure everybody knows that. Um I if this say her dedication I've seen it throughout the years. Um biggest thing is I I just I don't agree with what's happening here. I I don't um I've seen in the mornings not saying nothing about another driver, but the other driver that has been combined in her run sometimes it was two times a week she was getting phone calls to cover this other driver and she did and then like she said um during my

172cancer no I I just I I think something else needs to be done here. This is Fe. >> And I guess that's all I have. I got questions for M. >> Oh, I did. Um, you mentioned that there were eight additional students that got added. When was that? When when did the eight additional students get added to your bus? >> Um, it was like February. >> They're still on there now. Mhm. >> So that that's in addition to these numbers that we were given or is it >> the numbers I gave you um the 32 for the high school middle school and the 20 for the intermediate elementary that is minute numbers that's what they added. >> Okay. And Mr. Keeper, the numbers you're saying are just the recent numbers from the >> the most

173recent numbers that Miss uh Pearl referred to are from last week. And that video was downloaded and the route was watched for the entire run. In the mornings, how many kids were picked up and in the evenings how many kids were dropped off. >> Well, this is this is so so if everybody rides, there's lots of everybody to ride. Oh, >> yeah. If everybody rides, this is Yes. Um Mr. Ka um when they switch kids with each other like she took eight and are those run list updated and edge log >> as long the information comes from we into edge log and they are added um now that is doesn't tell us whether they ride or not >> it's it just It's the responsibility of the driver to update their roster continuously throughout the year

174to let us know. >> And does that usually occur? >> Sometimes not all drivers are as good as Cindy. I will say Cindy is an excellent bus operator. Um, and this is not personal. She does a great job. Um, but this is the number. Well, I I'll tell you in the future, I mean, that that needs to really be a a must that they when they take somebody else's kids off their bus or vice versa, that they get permission to do that or that or that the numbers are put in the weas to make sure that I'm not saying >> he was actually he was actually he is a learner because when we do our green sheets at the beginning of the year, he is added to it. >> Yeah. Well, and I wasn't specifically

175saying for you, but we heard that earlier. >> Well, drivers aren't allowed to change students without our permission. >> Okay. So, you know, when they change. Okay. That's why I want to be sure of that. >> Questions for you, sir. Um why why are the differences between secondary students like 25 and the intermediate elementary 17 is it for >> just are you seeing this across the board? Yeah, that was one of the things from the optimization study that or even the the efficiency study was you see um there's more high school middle school students riding the bus than there are elementary students at this time. So that's why there was a big gap where we could we could get more elementary students on other buses um and free up some some opportunities and that's what

176edge log had shown us. >> Yeah. I was just wondering because like in PTOIC you had parents back up out the road and everything else and do more parents take their children at the elementary level to school? >> Yes. Look, so I had another question. So, um, as Miss Band mentioned, um, it's already been decided who's going to be taking her run or Okay, that's why I was just like I didn't think >> Yeah, we are in the process of working on that. >> We probably won't have that for at least another month. >> And that's when the runs that'll be posted. >> Yes, that's the changes to the changes to another run, they'll be advised of it. But what we made sure of is that we didn't change their run by more than 50%.

177>> Yeah. What the policy says. >> So there may So it may not be posted. >> No. >> But the other driver may get that run. >> May get some reason. >> I was looking at the time you got on your bus 622 garage. You dropped off your last bits I think at 8:30. I I read with Mr. and struggle and he had to pray earlier. I I went out ready the morning. I was wiped out the rest of the day. >> That had to be years ago. That was years ago. >> Yeah. I used to go out 6:10 and start my pre-trip and then I used to leave my house at 6:25 and I start my run at 6:42 and then I'm usually back home 5 8:40. We wonder why we can't get bus

178driver. That's something I do. >> Honestly, guys, I love my job. I love what I do. And my husband will tell you, I told him, I don't know if I could go back to where I had to work 8 hour day. I love the schedule that I have that I do that morning. I have the break if there's anything I have to do in between. And then I go back and do my evening. >> Yet you have to be free if the bus schools closed down in order to sub. Well, I work in between runs, so but I have that flexibility if I need to go somewhere. If I make doctor's appointments, I don't have to, >> you know, miss time to work to make doctor's appointments. I make my doctor's appointments between. But just

179stuff like that. But I I do look what I do. I love the kids. Said, you know, my little ones, they're, you know, always Miss Cindy, Miss Cindy, Miss Cindy. They they have to tell me everything that's going on and what's here and what's there and show me everything that they have. Like I said, and even my high school kids and high school middle kids, I I adore those kids and I said, we, you know, car over the three years of, like I said, when I first took it over, it was like, oh my gosh, what did I do? And then it was like after we had our first blow up and it was like we had administration from the middle school one plus and >> once that one item was taken care of it

180was like the kids all knew okay she's not the same driver that was here before. So like I said they have respect for me I have respect for them and like I said if the baseball team when they get from the high school over to the field and they're the same. They know when they get on my bus they sit in the front they they're very respectful. They say goodbye when they get off the bus. So, you know, I tell them have good evening and those kind of things. But so that's why I said I really really hate to >> Any other questions? >> Yeah, one other question. So the potential other driver has more seniority than this. >> I I wouldn't know. It was just based on numbers. >> Oh, that's right. >> Yeah,

181it's not based on Okay. Well, >> so then question then. So there's a possibility that I would keep my run. >> It's up to the board. >> Oh, when you said there wasn't anybody else that was over there to do that. >> Um I don't remember saying >> because the only thing there would be is that one driver that would be back in that area unless you're going to put another driver back there. >> That's we're looking at all possibilities. >> I don't think she I don't think she's asking a question I don't know you may want to answer yet. You're saying you had made a state. Did you make a statement that there uh I apologize. Can you repeat your question? I want to make sure you get an answer. I don't know that

182he had >> the other driver that's back there that I we we cross on one road. So, she does a couple roads and then I do one road back there. So, she does the front part, I do the back part. But that's the driver that I'm assuming that's going to take that run. But if that's not the case, then her run's going to be changed, too. And then are we or are we doing a run like listing a run for that for that area? >> There will be no additional runs. >> Well, I think what he's saying is that some of your kids or your kids will be put on her run. Are there >> that's a very good possibility, but we're also looking at other buses in that area. >> Okay. >> What I

183what I wanted to say, Mrs. has been done is um I've had the privilege of I've never I've never had the privilege of meeting you, but I've had the privilege of meeting your husband and working with your husband and your daughter. Um and um I know the class act that your family represents. um and uh you being here today and obviously you know the the letters but speak from the heart. I just want you to know that that that means something and the the work that you do means something. Um and I'm very sorry that that you and your family have had to go through this but um obviously the board will confer and we'll talk about you know u your your request for appeal. So, >> the thing with um they made it where

184they said that it was the kids will be on the bus shorter range of time. If you're going to add somebody else's kids to your run, it's not going to be shorter. Those kids will be on the bus longer. So, and we don't have air conditioned bus, so it's really hot and those kind of things, too. So, if that's the case, and and like I said, I'm not sure who else would be over in that area. If that's the case, then my run should just stay as the way it is because if you're going to bring another bus over to do it, there's really no reason to get rid of mine if you're going to bring another bus over to do that if she's not going to be the one that does it. So, >>

185I I think what he said, I guess they're looking at different options. I don't know what those options would be, right? So, >> we look at all the runs back there and coordinate them. >> I don't know. How many um rers are on the other run now versus how many you're anticipating? >> I I do not have that answer, Mr. R. I would have to get back to you on that. >> Yeah, because you you said you were basing on the on the numbers. So, I was trying to figure out, okay, well, and then even with the the previous uh ones we had say this run there's 20 students riding, the other run there's 24. So, we're going to combine. And so now the other run is going to have 40 some students now instead

186of having two different runs. So that's what I was trying to figure out how big of a gap was there between for her run and the other run. There's a couple students so a big difference or that's >> or they're leacious. >> Yeah. >> Location's part of it. But Cindy's bus will have less students than the other bus. >> Okay. Okay. One of one of the sorry one of the things that I did want to regardless of the position that we're looking at here with even Mrs. Van Dy though is if I recall um if you if you go to the second to last page on the results page um let's see that was um >> there when we had seen the the presentation they had a the amount of time that the differential even

187with additional students and again some of that was not be and I don't want I want to be very careful I'm not saying that this is exactly how your run is structured but just because another driver may pick up some additional students they may also lose some students because they again It's like um it's it's it's if you think it's how they balance the enrollment or the writership. So, and again, I'm not saying this is specific to your route because I don't know all the nuances, but you may have some students that are added to a route and then on that route they've been added to. Some of those students may be removed and put on a different route also so that it's all balanced out. But that goes into this this chart here. And

188again, this is the spring. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, yeah. The Hedgesville complex. Thank you. Hitville complex. So the the um >> I'm still I'm still on the results. It had a Spring Mills complex run summary uh statistics. >> And you'll see that um under the optimized the the um average runtime was 24 minutes compared to so they were actually they were actually reducing the number of minutes. Again, this was only for this is only for spring mail. So, I don't know what the hedges. >> Okay. >> So, I I the only reason I bring that up is that that was something that's considered was if it, you know, consolidating a route, we don't want it to add another 30 minutes to the route, for example, because of the number of stops. So, those were I

189just I'm saying that to make sure that the board is aware that all those things were taken into consideration and that does not change the argument of what Mrs. Van has. But I'm going to say because there's only on the side that that her and I do, there's only the two buses. We're the only two buses that go back there, >> right? >> There's no other bus. Um like I said, Tom on 92, he did come back to the trailer park cuz that's where I go to the trailer park. >> Um but they don't even come back there anymore. But her and I are the only two that are on that side and that that area. So if you're planning on rerouting and bringing people from the other side of route 9 over those buses

190are loaded. So that that's what I guess that's all my question is is how we're planning on that's why I assume she's taking it because uh we both cross at the same part but she just have to go down cherry road and come back up and that's what I'm saying. That's how I'm trying to figure out how we're getting that part. If you do that, you're adding another 10 stops to her route. So, you're adding another 20 minutes to one run. And I think Katie had I was going to leave whenever they were going to call on me. I'll hold it up forever. Um, so 490 I think has covered twice possibly for her in the past year. And both times with traffic in Hedrisville, it has taken her I think you guys pick up

191what about 3:30 and she doesn't get the job 4:30. So it's an hour of elementary kids on a bus with potential accidents happening, you know, they can't hold their back, you know, for that long. Um, so it's just And then if you cut down 92 on top of that, if they're all riding on the same bus, that's, you know, they're getting home on this 445. It's just ridiculous. >> Cindy, if you give a stencil those letters, maybe she could copy them for us. >> Well, the lady in Yeah. So, because there's only one letter, right? >> Nope. >> No, I mean, there's a bunch of letters, but one copy. >> Yes. One. Yeah, that's what I was searching for. >> Any other questions from the board? If not, that that concludes the hearing. The board

192will put on superintendent recommendation at the regular schedule meeting tomorrow. >> Thank you. >> We're approaching the 3hour mark. Do you think we're good? Yes, we're take a five minute break. Okay, good afternoon. This is a special meeting of the board of education code for the limited purpose of conducting requested transfer hearings. The evidence to be considered by the board shall be limited to the information provided by the superintendent or super recommendation and the information submitted by the employees. The hearing request uh today has been made by Bonnie Shirley. West Virginia code requires county board of education to conduct hearings on written demand that the employee who have been recommended for transfer after administration concluded with their profer of the evidence. The employee will be afforded with an opportunity to present witnesses and evidence. The

193time to be afforded for the employees presentation be limited 15 minutes. hours. The written documents may be submitted by the employee to the board for its consideration. At the conclusion of all the presentation of witnesses and evidence, members, you will be provided with an opportunity to ask questions of the superintendent or designates and the employees question and the employee questions pertinent to the proposed personnel actions. As a presiding officer, I rule on any evidentary and procedural issues. Should any member of the board take any issue of prior rulings or procedures or evidence, he or she may put the matters to a full vote as a court order. While the strict rules of evidence will not be applied, evidence that is not germanine to the public down action will not be allowed. This hearing will be

194recorded. Uh and any of the anyone here today who is present with any information and plans present if you please. will stand and raise your right hand. The testimony and information give today will be the truth and all truth and not about the truth. >> I do. >> Thank you. At this time, we'll identify everybody for the record. >> My name is Kevin for the district. >> My name is Jason. I'm the executive director of human resources. >> I'm um Bonnie Shirley and I teach art at Musman High School, art one, painting one, painting two and painting three. Alicia Reglin, Centralman High School, executive director, secondary school. >> Thank you everyone. And Miss Shirley, you requested an open hearing. Go ahead. >> I did. >> Okay. And this time we please begin for >> Yes.

195Thank you. Um, I apologize. So, I'm going to hand you a a packet of documents and I should have had this up earlier. Um, but the board of education has this in front of them. These are the documents that bring us here today. Well, these would be the letters that you received from um the administration regarding the proposed recommended transfer. Uh you will see from this packet of documents that Miss Shirley, Miss Shirley has a long history of service to Berkeley County Schools. Um which is much appreciated. But as we move into an era where we have to realign positions um and make the most effective and efficient use of the monies that the school system has. Sometimes positions have to be eliminated. And when that occurs, employees bring a converted amount of seniority like

196Miss Shirley will still have a position within the school system um but they're placed on transport and that's the mechanism for doing that. So in order to um fiscally and responsibly utilize the funds that you have um the recommendation which is not part of this is but her position is being eliminated and she would be placed on trans and if if anybody has any questions of the administrators that are here today um regarding that they you might have those surely or members of board might have that as well. >> Okay. So, first of all, I just want to thank you guys for your time and I know that you guys have a very difficult face very difficult situations and decisions that you have to make all the time. I know that this is uh why

197we're here today and sometimes your job is very thank thankless, but I just want to thank you for everything you do because I know that it is very difficult. Um, but I would like to respectfully disagree with the um findings you have come up with and I'm sorry I'm I'm going to try to keep my composure, but this is very personal to me. So, I will do my best. But first of all, I have been with Berkeley County for 31 years and I have pretty much worked every job there is. I used to was the old superintendent that was coming for his job next because I was a cook, I was a custodian, I was an aid, and now I'm a teacher. that I've done pretty much all the jobs that there are in the

198county. Um, but we currently have four art teachers at Musman High School. I was the last to come. Our classes are full or close to full. I have one class that is not as full as the others. I do have most my classes I have have kids chairs up to the side of my class uh tables to fit. I'm in a uh I think it used to be a Spanish classroom possibly because there's a synth. Um we are pretty crowded. The small class that I have is a painting two/painting three class. Um which is expected because they have to go through the other arts in order to get to those classes. So that would be the only really small class that I that I have. Um so I know that the projected numbers may be

199a little bit off next year. I'm hearing that they're a little less next year for art, but I'm also informed that we have added a new stipulation that students have to have a um a a new class which is a finance class in order to graduate that we did not used to have, which I think is amazing. It's wonderful that we have that. But because of that, we have a lot of ninth graders coming in and their elective is finance class and not art class, which is going to hurt our numbers. um for our ninth graders taking art on those students are still going to have to have an art class to graduate. So when they come back as a sophomore, they're going to need that art credit. And so then our numbers are going

200to be up because we'll have not only the freshman in that class, but also those sophomores that took the finance class. So I feel like our numbers maybe be a little bit skewed right now because of that finance class. Um but I do feel like that they will be adjusted. Also the fact that um you yourself have given out information on how our schools are growing and we're going to have over a thousand new students coming into our schools. We're not getting smaller. I live in South Berkeley County and I have my whole life. Um there are town houses behind every building in South Berkeley County that are empty right now that are being built. We are doing nothing but growing. So this is to me a temporary situation that you have. you need teachers

201that are certified in other classrooms. So, you're getting rid of a job that's going to need to be recreated in a year or two and it's not going to be mine and I take that very personally. Um, so that is why I feel very passionate about this situation. Um, anyway, all of our feeder schools are overcrowded, so those kids are coming in. Uh the numbers that we have right now from what I understand are the same as they were last year as far as this time of the year. Our numbers are a little bit down. We still have kids that are feeding in and coming in from different places. So as we get closer to the end of the year, those numbers always fluctuate. We get a class list tentative at the end of the

202year. It's never what it is when we start. There's always more kids in it by the time we come from kids that come in from other schools. And so all these kids that I have right now in my classrooms are going to be shoved into other art classrooms. An art classroom is different in the fact that I can't be sitting up against someone else. I don't know if any of you have ever taken a painting class. I teach those also. Um I used to teach through adult community education for Berkeley County. I teach a lot of other classes. But you have to have room to move a little bit and my classes are pretty full. that limits the kind of art that we can teach our students and therefore I feel like it is hindering

203our students. Um removing my position is going to uh overcrowd already crowded conditions making space to complete our project projects almost impossible. Arts unique because we have to have that space to move when you do clay when you do painting when I have canvases. Um, when I put up uh easels, um, no one's really looked at my classroom to see the size or how much uh, room we have in there, and I can promise you it's not a lot. And, um, this is also going to limit our advanced art classes. Um, it's going to hurt our artistic students that are growing and preparing for college level classes. We have a lot of those in Berkeley County. We just had our arts night, our creative arts night at Musman High School, and it I didn't see

204any of you guys there, but it was impressive. So impressive. The halls were lined with over 250 artworks um that were there. We had um the band, the stage band performing. That is important for students. Me being one when I was in high school, I was a good high school student. I went through Berkeley County schools, but I was an art I was an art student. I mean, I didn't take uh a lot of art classes in in in uh high school, but I adored it. I loved it. And some of these kids, it's what keeps them in school. I have kids that struggle in other classrooms and they come in my classroom and they do art projects. It's a time for them to relax. It's a time for them to get the stress of

205trigonometry off. It's a time for them sometimes when they're done on art practs to do trigonometry because lots of times if kids have extra time and they're done on art projects, they know they can work on other things. It's important for them to be successful in every area and they always hear that from me. They know that I'm a safe place for them to do that. I tell them from the very beginning, when you're done on projects, please work on another classroom's projects. It's important. It's all important. So, I do understand that I am going to have a job here in Berkeley County, but that's really no consolation when you finally attained your dream job. I graduated from Westmin High School and when I was interviewed from a spin high school that was I'm sorry

206I didn't think I would do that. It was quite a shock the other day when I was called in and told that I was losing my job there. And yes, I was told that I had another job in Berkeley County. And I've had other jobs in Berkeley County. I was a third grade teacher at Bunker Hill and it was a it was a dream job as well. But when I was a little kid, I always thought about being an art teacher. I never thought I would be an art teacher. I wasn't in the high school. So to lose this job, it's not a consolation for you to tell me that I have a job somewhere else because it's it would be like me coming and telling you that you worked hard to be have this

207job and I'm going to give you another job. Don't worry, you have a job, but it's not the one that you wanted. I mean, I've worked 31 years to get here. If I felt like, yes, the numbers really aren't there in my classes are small. I go in those classrooms every day. They're not that small. I can tr I trust me, you've come in to my classrooms any day. They're not that small. And I don't believe they're going to be that small next year. I know they're not going to be that small in two or three years. So, this is a temporary fix, I believe, to put me in another classroom where you need a certified teacher. Can I do it? Yes. I have never had a job that I did not like. God has

208blessed me in so many ways. He's put me places that I didn't think that I should be. And when I got there, I loved them. So, will I be okay if I don't have a job at Musman High School? Yes, I will. But I do believe that's where I'm supposed to be. I've done a lot of praying about it before I even came to Mus High School. It was a hard decision for me to come to Muslim because I loved my other job. I was at Bunker Hill for 20 years and I loved it. So when that job came open, like I said, it was a dream and I didn't just jump on it, but I prayed about it because I felt like that was a place I was supposed to go and I'm thankful

209I've been there. It's been it's been a blessing in my life and I hope that I've blessed those kids in many, many ways and I hope that I can continue. But I would like for you to at least look at these numbers and realize that they're temporary because they are temporary. We're growing by leaps and bounds. This is a temporary solution. It's not like the job is not needed. And if it were, I would be the first to agree yes, we don't need this job. But I don't believe that we don't that we do need to get rid of it. So I had a whole bunch of stuff written here. a whole bunch of stuff that I think is really unnecessary for me to read to you right now. But I don't think education is

210a job like a factory where we can just look at numbers and make these decisions without looking at individual situations. We need to go into these classrooms and see these kids. I had so many kids wanted to write me letters and wanted to come with me today. They were walking down the hall to me as I was leaving school wanting to come with me. But this is not their fight. They should not have to fight for good teachers in their in their classrooms. They should not have to fight to keep the classes that they want to take. They shouldn't have to do that because they are they're amazing. Our kids are amazing. And we need to view them that way and stop thinking of everything as a number like everything's about a number. But it's

211not all about number. These kids have worked hard to get in my classes. They love my classes. I have some kids that are seniors, failed art one, two or three times and have it graduate and they come in my class and they tell me how much they're going to hate it and in the end they don't hate it. They end up loving it and doing a great job in it and I'm thankful for the experiences that I've had. Uh, so I just think that as a board, I know your jobs are hard and I know that what you do you feel was right at the time, but I think that this decision was wrong. Not just mine, but probably lots of others. I was listening to a lot of the things that were there. We

212need to look at more than just numbers. We need to look at the kids. We need to look at individual situations. And I pray that you'll consider my transfer. I have looked at other jobs. I've already been on one interview. I've been a fire as a fifth grade teacher. Do I want that job? No. Will I do it? Yes. But I do not want it. It's not what I want to do. I feel sad that I'm going on interview. It's another another interview tomorrow and I'm looking at other state job, you know, and there's a couple art positions in other states. Do I want to leave Brook County? No. There's a lot of options out there. And I feel like um at my age, I need to start looking at some things. But I'm really

213close to retirement and I would love to stay at Westwood High School if you would consider that. Um, but look at the numbers because I think that you'll see that even if they're down next year, it is a oneyear situation. It is not something that's going to continue. And like I said, you know the numbers. My husband's a diesel mechanic and he goes into all these developments and he tells me, "I don't know where they're going to put these kids. I don't know where they're going to put these kids. There's 300 homes going in here. There's 600 town homes going in here and they're in South Berkeley County. So, I don't know if anybody else wants to speak this with me or not, but um I have worked for the best. And uh I have,

214like I said, I started out as a custodian, an at a cook. I did all those jobs. And I learned to be a teacher not from going to college. I learned to be a teacher from working with the best teachers in the world. And they were here at Berkeley County. And I get sick of hearing from people on social media that teachers don't care because they're wrong. They don't see teachers that wake up in the middle of the night worrying to death because something came into your mind that a kid said to you and you were really worried about it. Is this something important? And this is something that's we have the best teachers in Berkeley County, but we need to keep them. You guys cannot do anything about our pay. I've worked for 31

215years. They've been trying and it is not it's not happening. You can't do anything about our insurance. My insurance went up to $636 a month right now and it's getting ready to go up to a,000 $200 here coming up. You can't do anything about that either because that's a West Virginia problem there. It's not it's not something you can fix, but you can fix the morale here in Brookley County by knowing that we have your backing. That you know that we're more than a number. That you know that our kids are more than a number. Our kids are the best that we have to give. They're the best that parents have to give. And they're going to grow up and be our doctors and our lawyers and our teachers and our board members. And they

216deserve teachers that love them and care about them. and I do love and care about our kids. So that's really all I have. I thank you for your time. You have any questions? >> Question, Mr. Chairman. >> Uh questions. What? I have a couple. >> I have a couple. >> Um I started as a teacher saved by the back. Did you? >> Yes. >> We probably worked together. >> 72 73. But I want to get I want to get I want to get to my questions and not forget. >> Um to Mr. Camealos here to council. Um Mr. Camelowski, will this be because of the finance class? Do you the dip that she sees coming in enrollment? I I hadn't heard about this or I didn't understand it. >> Probably better question for risk club

217therapies. >> It's actually due to the fact that um we have a lot of fulfillment classes now like in the CTD world. So for example for culture or digital imaging those classes now can replace that art one credit okay so that it's a give and take um and it's uh there the more options we have for kids those are the kind of things that end up happening >> okay part of that question is I I know we have if you work in a school uh you you give things you give preferences to people in that school. Um so say there is a dip in the art enrollment and we put Miss Shirley in another position within that school and then the next year the art thing pops up. Let me hold that. I'm not I

218know you don't want to do anything else. >> No, I'm not I can't do what you're asking now. >> Okay. Well, that was my question. You go ahead and ask her. >> I'm sorry. The reason I can't do that is I am only certified in art in high school. >> I have a elementary education uh degree, but an art education to adulthood. So, the only position I could have at Musman High School would be an art position. >> I just didn't want you to. >> You killed them. >> And definitely I would be willing to do that, but to stay at muscle, >> but that's not something I can I have a K8 education. >> Okay. Let me ask him this question. You may know the answer, Mr. Camelowski, if the enrollment's down next year

219for art that she's teaching and the following year it's back up, but she's over in fifth grade teaching a class. Does she have preference to go back to her first job? No, she probably >> it would be it would be posted though and given given her seniority and all the other things that are looked at >> and you know >> and professionally it's not based solely on seniority like service. So with her prior experience she would have an advantage over other applicants. >> Most of the time that's the way it works. Yes. I mean someone in you know there are a number of factors that are looked at like experience with in the area that is being taught seniority evaluations um degree level all of that is is reviewed in addition to for a classroom

220teaching position the recommendation of the school principal and the recommendation of the faculty senate >> and we have two school principles and just to make my job tougher do you all want to say anything about the quality of this woman's work. >> I I she's the best of the best. I hired uh Mrs. Sherwood uh but I'll let Mrs. Roman speak to um do >> Yeah. Um I mean she does anything we ask. One of the things that she didn't mention because Miss Shirley doesn't like to talk about herself. She she started a school beautifification club that um a couple years ago we were having some issues with vandalism in our restroom. So we figured out that the group of students and she stays after school. She still does it and they completely uh renovated

221all of our restrooms um takes care of all that. She's been to the the Renaissance conference two years so she's very um instrumental in that. volunteers to do lunch duty covers. I can't think of anything she doesn't do at Muscleman and and the community. Um if you notice in my office and and at my painting who used to hang in McDonald's, um she's known for her paintings throughout our community, particularly of the old high school. Um so she's well known in the community for her her her existing talents. >> Very good. Um they have um students have done their schedule for next year. >> They they have requested their courses. Yes. >> Yes. So that's where where we came to figure that there's not enough students for her courses. >> There's still a lot of

222movement and I'm not sure exactly where Musman is with the movement yet. Um they might be able to keep it out a little bit better. >> When we when we do scheduling they put the request in. um that doesn't include any new enrollments or or transfers in. Um it's just our current students and the current eighth graders, but it does not include any new students that move to our area and enroll. So So um she would even even though she would take another job, she would have an opportunity to go back to her job by August 1 if it becomes available and then they'll post the job that she bid on. So that's always a possibility that we would see with numbers. Correct. >> That would be correct if the course requests changed. So as

223Mr. Bgman said, the current course requests indicate that based upon and maybe this might be something you'd have to answer, Mrs. Bergman, the the class size that you're looking at for those art classrooms. And you know, obviously that dictates how many sections you're going to have based upon those requests. Um, so maybe you could just talk to the board a little about how you go about determining how many sections you're going to need. Um, how many art teachers are are currently at Muscleman >> or one's photography is photography, art, painting? >> Okay. >> We don't do drawing anymore. >> Yeah, we do have drawing. >> We do have drawing. that again it's based upon the number of course requests that would be fulfilled. Correct. Um also I wanted to go back and ask Mrs. Klepner

224to clarify. One of the things I think you had stepped out just for a second that um uh that Mrs. Shirley had talked about was is that the the new state requirement for the finance course um that does take an elective from our students. Correct. And that's going to either be taught by social studies or a business teacher. Correct. Does that have any impact on the on the freshman art numbers? Because she had mentioned Mrs. Shirley had mentioned that. I just didn't know if that was >> if that was it'll have an effect on the couple of other courses, >> the upper level. >> You know, every every student has to have an art credit to graduate, >> right? >> But like I said before, now you could get it. >> The embedded credit is

225the >> something else. >> Yeah. And so at Muscleman, students can get embedded art credit through floor culture. >> Floor culture. Um they're very close to the baking and pastry as being one. Um I want to see digital imaging. Okay. Um it was digital imagery. Um so there's a couple of you know and that may take two three sections away. But anybody that's done a high school master schedule it's constantly evolving and changing right up until basically the last day of school. So, uh, how low were her numbers compared to the other classes that I mean, how did you come about eliminating that? Because how low were her class number? >> It wasn't just based on my numbers. That's what I understand. It was based on >> the art numbers and like my maybe my

226painting class was full or maybe my but maybe it's just the all numbers. It wasn't just based on me, but I was the last art person to come here. I'm the one to go. >> Yes. but it wasn't based on my numbers. But we can re-evaluate those numbers soon. I I just need to see where her um counselors are in terms of filling the the master schedule. And I think that this is one of those instances where what the law requires you to do by a certain time doesn't align very nicely with what >> students decide and and educators need and educators decide because the board's decision has to be made prior to May the 1st. And I think as everybody said, there are a lot of moving parts between May the 1st and the

227start of the next school year. a lot of moving parts between May the 1st and the end of this school year that if the you know the numbers change and and enrollments change then the board can resend its action if it does place Miss Shirley on the transfer list. >> So according to that I just feel it's so unfortunate to these people that I am interviewing with. I interviewed at Bumbumber Hill Elementary and accepted a fifth grade position, telling them that I would not take it if I could stay at Westman. You know, it's hard to interview for a job when you go in and say, "I'm in love with my job and I don't want to leave my job." And if there's a chance I can stay at my job, I'm staying. You don't

228interview very well with that. But they did offer me the fifth grade position and I have an interview tomorrow with Musman Middle, which I'll be saying the same thing again. And I might have multiple more, but it just causes a a cascade if it's really hard. >> Oh, we agree. >> To go in there in in that kind of a position. And as far as coming back, if you have the next year, I'm 61 years old. I'm not coming back after that. Like, wherever I go, I have to stay for the rest of my time. You don't just pack up an art room. You'd have to come in my art room to understand it. You don't just pack up an art room and switch to teaching fifth grade. All right, I taught third grade. I

229finally decided, okay, it's time to get rid of these 10 boxes of my library downstairs. I just got rid of all that stuff because I was where I was in love and I was going to stay. And now I'm going to go back into the classroom and do the same thing and rebuild a library for three to five years and do the things. It's not as easy as it sounds. to just pack up a whole job like that. You know, if you are dedicated and really into your job, you are into your job. I've spent hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of dollars on libraries out of my own pocket and things for when I taught third grade or when I I was in kindergarten. I was an art teacher in Bunker Hill. And so, you

230know, I held on to those things for quite some time to make sure I was in love. And when I was in love, I got rid of them. So, it's just not something that you can just say you're going to leave for a year and then the numbers are going to be up and you're going to come back. It just it just doesn't work that way, you know. I appreciate the >> Well, I was thinking not the year. I was thinking like by August 1st. >> Yes. And I definitely I mean, no matter where I say I'm going, if my job is here August 1st, I am staying at Muslim if I can because like I said, I love my job. I love my kids. I love everything about going to work in the morning

231and uh you know so I do >> and I want to be very cautious board members. We we are we're saying it's an op it's a it's a possibility but I don't want to give any false sense that >> that we think it's going to happen. I just want to I want to be able to go on the record to say that I no one can guarantee that and and in all likelihood based upon the numbers that have already been projected it's not likely but that that possibility exists if something you know happens with the master schedule. Um so I just want to make sure that I'm very clear on >> I was just quoting code. >> Yes. Absolutely. Yes. >> Because I know things can change and they do. Mr. Martin, >> if we're

232looking at spreading out or eliminating our teacher spreading out to the other three teachers, would those classrooms be close to over capacity at that point? Cuz I know a lot of electives there must are. So I just wanted to private students. >> Yes, they would. >> As far as what I've seen, they would they'd be tight. They would be no. >> Where the fourth or >> my U so we are spread all over the school. Our main art room is over in the PLC, which it's a nice big room with the um the photo >> things, the dark room and things. And then I am in the English hallway because there's a sink and you have to have a sink for painting. And then there's one art teacher upstairs in a science lab and the

233other one is over >> I don't know what you call that hallway. Science science wing. So, we are all over the building right now in different areas. But, um, that was my thing that even though maybe the numbers aren't real high, what I was saying is it is going to overcrowd those classrooms to where if new people come in, they're going to have to choose another elective possibly because they're going to be crowded. And what I was saying with that other elective, and I understand there's there's other options to get your credit. I understand that. But what I was meaning by the fact that they can they take that is before almost every freshman until learn one if you went into and we have even argued that before that we would like for them to

234wait till they're a sophomore junior and a little bit more mature but almost every ninth grader ends up in an AR one but this coming year they are not all ending up in an AR one because some of them have chose that elective as being that's why I was saying the numbers are a little bit different because of that but those students will still at some point have to take art maybe not my art but at art. So that's why I was saying the numbers may be a little off because of that. Um and I know that um you know there's a there's a lot to be considered here but I just wanted to voice my opinion after 31 years. I felt like I needed to speak up. Um, anyway, I do love Brookley County

235and I love our students and I think they deserve more than what they're getting right now. >> Okay, my turn. >> Um, so I I have a couple questions. Okay. Um, you all mentioned it being tight. Approximately how many students you all anticipate would be in those three classes. >> Oh, when we when we divide them out, we usually um estimate 25. 25. >> They're pretty much maxed out right now. >> Okay. Um, another question just for anybody watching or for all of our clarification. Um, who are the people that um, not just for her position but in general that are responsible for um, deciding what classes or teachers um, are going to be transferred? Is is principal involved central office who are different? >> So, uh we go through staffing meetings and so our

236staffing meetings depending upon the programmatic level we're we're working with. Uh we have um our HR department there. So that's our executive director of HR. Um we have Mrs. Hensel who is over service personnel. Um we have um a lot of times well we'll have our special education representatives there. um we'll have our deputy of instruction and then depending upon the programmatic level actually both programmatic level executive directors are there so that's >> so no matter no matter if it's elementary or had the both both of them >> I believe they were I believe you were both there um just just for consistency >> um and then um a lot of times the executive director will facilitate the conversation with the principal to talk about their numbers whether it be the number of home rooms

237the number of sections that they're going to have and that based upon enrollment trends whether or not they need to gain a a staffing unit or reduce a staffing unit. Um and sometimes there's conversations around you know based upon student need the there's a conversation with the principal as to their perspective of where that may need to occur. uh but many times when we have those numbers so for example when we look at I think in this situation specifically we had taken a look at the art number of requests and so the suggestion was made to Mrs. Buggle and you could reduce an art teacher based upon these numbers. Um and so that that they're they're pitched. Uh but the final the final um recommendation has to come down to me. Um I I take

238a look at all that information and say, "Okay, well here here's what we need to do because we're, you know, over uh service by 200 personnel positions. We're over in professional positions by, you know, 80ome positions. Um uh you know, we have to be able to know where to trim. And so ultimately it comes down to my recommendation as to um um whether or not it's a it's a decision to uh reduce at a school or to add to a school. And then of course that recommendation has to be made to the board, >> right? But you're basing that off of >> the conversations >> conversations all these different The reason I'm asking this question is because >> um I want to make sure there's clarity because a lot of people >> well it's a

239superintendent or it's just the principal it's just so people understand it's not one person that's making these decisions. >> It's many >> it's right >> well I would say that code only allows for one person to make the recommendation and that is me. But it is very fair to say is is that we try to very much include as many of the um uh leaders whether it be at the school or at the district that have context as to what we need to be able to do that is going to best serve our students and operate the school district as efficiently as possible. Um and uh I I think it's also very much worth saying that when we go through that process, there were many areas in which we felt like we could also still

240trim, but we had to make decisions that we felt like again were best for our kids and for the continuity. And you know, I'm I'm a an advocate of of taking a scalpel rather than, you know, something that is much more severe. And so sometimes that that trim is warranted based upon those those fluctuations. Um it doesn't make the decisions any easier but I would definitely say that that uh I very much value and require the input of others before making a final decision. And that's to that's to add or to to have to to subtract. >> So so guess that brings one other question. So, not not specifically in this situation, but if if a principal um were to say, "Yes, we understand that um you may feel that we need to reduce uh

241the gym teacher, but I know for my students, we would do you think a principal could override what the other group members think?" >> Well, I think that it very much is taken into consideration. Um, as an example, um, just just yesterday, well, have you notified that person yet? I mean, you know, there there was a a principal that was very concerned over one of their staff members um being reduced and um I had some additional conversations with my team even though we we were all in alignment that that it was a a trim that was that was u commensurate with what we've done in the past. We took some other I took another look look at it and this happened to be a school that was converting to a K5 and um I made

242a decision not to to go forward with that transfer and that was heavily dependent upon the uh feedback of that principal. >> Um and and so there are times when when we do when we do have to to lean in on that. It's not all the time, but it's definitely taken into consideration. I would also say that um we had some other positions that were reduced because of um home room numbers. And there again um one of the the l the the flexibilities we were able to provide was that because there were some additional federal funding that was able to come in that we were able to preserve some of those types of positions or those units. um that doesn't always happen, but there again um that was something that we were we were able

243to allow the schools the discretion to decide how they wanted to proceed based upon the individual needs of those schools. And so it's not, you know, always hard and fast and and again sometimes it comes down to um fluctuations with enrollment in different and fluctuations with enrollment within the district. Not all always about gaining or losing students. It's about how the fluctuation within the district occurs, but it's also based upon when we are able to to finalize funding streams. You know, um 18A is I I know that I'm I'm leaning heavily on that, but that is the prescription that we have to follow is 18A and that gives specific deadlines of when we have to notify staff that that they're being placed on transfer and then that can always be rescended. But, you know, we

244don't even get the concrete numbers from the West Virginia Department of Education until after April 1st, you know, when we we get we get potential funding numbers as to what our numbers are going to be. But, um, I mean, we we had um we almost all the way up to April 1st, there was a chance that we were going to have another uh portion of funding pulled back from the from the department. And luckily we were able to sub we were able to uh put enough put enough um uh conversation out there to make that not happen this year. But that was a big one. And then the second one was is our federal funding. We have just now last week were able to get our preliminary uh federal funding which is title one, title

245two, title three, title four. And even then, when we found out that we were one of only three counties in the state that were getting a some additional money, we were told, "Well, don't count on that because in July, we may have to pull that back." And then, oh, by the way, when Hope Scholarship comes out in October, we may have to do another pullback. And so, again, we are so we are so restricted by what 18A says that we have to do. And it does it is intended to protect employees, meaning to give employees ample notice of what could happen. So that's the good thing about it. But it doesn't make it any easier when there are so many moving parts that are leading up to the time when we are actually going to

246as an organization have finite information that says here's how much money you're receiving or here's where your fluctuations in enrollment are occurring. So, I say all of that to say that we have to be able to put people on notice by April 1st, but it doesn't mean that we're so hardened as individuals that we're not listening to our principles. We're not listening to our staff so that if accommodations can be made after that fact, then then then we try to respond to that as well. >> Can and just to be clear, I wasn't trying to throw Miss Brigman under the bus or any other principal saying they're not fighting for the employees enough or anything. I just wanted the process to be explained so people understand um that there's a lot goes into these decisions

247and um >> and a lot of input >> right a lot of input so I apologize if anybody Mman if you felt that way it's not what my intention was at all >> well I'm not going to even alleviate that I don't recall that when we were in those personnel hearings Mrs. said, "I need to lose an art teacher." I'm just I'm just I want to make sure I want to say, "Miss Shirley, you know that, too. It's it's it's definitely a conversation of we're looking at your numbers. We believe that you we can reduce in this area because we're also faced with knowing that we have to be able to reduce the number of employees we have over formula." And and so, um, Mrs. Bman, like I said that I don't want to put

248her in that position either, but but I have to lean in on our principles to also tell me where they think that that we can trim or add if if that is a conversation that is occurring at that time. >> Dr. >> Any other questions? If not, then that'll conclude this hearing. The board will put on the super recommendation at the regular schedule meeting tomorrow. Thank you, Mr. Shar. >> Thank you, Mr. Thank you. Appreciate >> it. School. Did you turn that air down? >> Did you turn the air down? >> The restroom came back. >> Just kidding. >> Oh, don't touch it. I just thought you wanted the restroom against that. Oh, >> this is a special meeting of the board of education call for the limited purposes of conducted requested transfer hearings. The

249evidence to be considered by the board shall be limited to information provided by the superintendent or superintendent design in support of his recommendation and information submitted by the employee. The hearing request that have been made by Amanda Allen. West Virginia code requires county board of educations to conduct hearings. The written demand of employees have been recommended for transfers. After administration has concluded with their proper evidence, the employee will be afforded with an opportunity to present witnesses and evidence the time to be afforded for the employees presentation shall be limited to 15 minutes. However, written statements and documents may be submitted by the employee to the board of education for consideration. At the conclusion of the presentation, witnesses and evidence board me board members will be provided with an opportunity to ask the superintendent and employees

250questions pertinent to the proposed transfer action. Um, this hearing will be recorded and all those individuals that will be presenting information, you'll please stand and raise your right hand. >> Oh, sure. will stand on. >> Oh, sorry. >> Sorry. >> The information you here to present today, you believe will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. >> I do. >> Thank you. And before the record, Miss Alan, you have requested an open hearing. Correct. And we'll begin with the administration identifying theirelves for the record. If you could begin, let's put >> Thank you. My name is Kim Freyle, the attorney for the administration. >> My name is Jason Klonsky. and I'm executive director of human resources. >> My name is Louis Small. I'm the executive director of elementary leadership. >> Allen.

251I am currently at JSON Elementary as the computer and library media specialist. >> Thank you everyone. Miss Cor, if you may begin with super. >> Uh thank you. And I'm providing a a copy of documents to Miss Allen that the board of education has in its packet. These are the documents that bring us here today. certainly the notice of hearing that was provided to her and then the letter behind that is the letter that is sent to the employee indicating that their name is being considered for potential um placement on the transfer list and reassignment for the upcoming school year. So what that means is that Miss Allen has sufficient seniority to maintain a job, but in this instance, her job is being eliminated. And the reason for the elimination is because of the reconfiguration

252um that the school system is going through and having to determine how to best um fund the positions you have and provide the necessary education to students of Brookway County Schools. And so when you look at that um state, federal, local funding that you have um and the fact that you're over the state aid funding formula, you find that in certain instances there are times that we have to eliminate a position. And in this case, Ms. Allen's position is the one to be eliminated. There's no one in her school that she can bump or displace. And so she would be placed um in a county bump in this situation. versus within uh the school that she serves. And so that is what brings us here today. Certainly Mr. Lanex is here as is Mr. Kimlowski

253and the superintendent to further explain if there are any questions that Miss Allen has or any people. >> All right. Well, first of all, I want to say that much of what Miss Shirley just uh presented to you is exactly where I stand as well. Um she was spot on in every word that she said and I'm actually blessed to be able to follow her today. Um my first concern comes from the fact that this year marks yet another time that I find myself being placed on this transfer list. With almost 20 years of experience within this county and a master's degree plus 45, knocking on the door of PhD if I actually wanted to. I cannot fathom why I must continue to compete with individuals with little to no experience or even certification. While

254I understand that changes do indeed occur, I believe the choices being made are first not conducive to the development and improvement of our county and second not using forethought to prevent having to backtrack in the future which was brought up just previously. There are many instances that have resulted in the necessity of reversing poor decisions and I am hoping that this trend can be discouraged and alleviated here in the future. As for my actual position, being that we are in the year 2026, technology is rampant. It will continue to grow and permeate our lives more advancements are made. The concerning issue though is that there is an overuse of technology in the lives of our children. I am completely in agreement with such a sent sentiment as Berkeley County Schools is indeed forcing additional technology

255use on our students. Yet the problem lies in how our technology is being used. Instead of seeing technology as a tool by which students may express their creativity, enhance their knowledge, and showcase their learning, our central office believes iPads and Chromebooks are a means to an end. Unfortunately, I cannot tell you how much disappointment I face when my own 7-year-old comes home as proud as she can be that she indeed had finished her hour minutes for the week. I'd rather she express her enthusiasm for the hands-on activities that she will remember for years to come. The activities that cannot happen due to the calculated curriculum teachers are expected to follow that leaves little room for actual teaching to actually occur. We need to alter our mindset and start using technology for its intended purpose, which

256is a valuable tool. Do you know how many kindergarters come to me beginning their schooling having only knowledge of technology as a means by which to keep them occupied or to babysit them? The majority. Therefore, stressing the importance of having computer teachers in this county who can properly teach our students how to handle devices and use them in beneficial manners is key. We cannot continuously carry out our duties if many of our jobs are now based on title one or federal funding that is not guaranteed every year. Why is our importance not being realized? Why are you not allowing us to teach technology in the proper manner so that our teachers do not need something additional to worry about? I realize that the computer teachers who are put on the transfer list now have a

257different job available to them. But for those jobs to only be guaranteed for a year is extremely questionable. And to group Title One responsibilities with STEM teaching, those two areas do not even resemble each other. My concerns are not just as a teacher. My concerns come as a parent as well. I want my daughter and my son to be provided the technology education that matters and that works. I am still trying to wrap my head around how enrollment numbers and how many classrooms that are home rooms exist at a school can be used to determine the necessity of computer courses. Who has made this magic number? Where did this magic number come from? Spring Hills Primary will still have a computer teacher who is not paid with federal funds. I believe Headisville Elementary will also

258have the same thing. How can that be explained? In addition, why does my own daughter not get the same education that Springill's primary and Hedgesville Elementary students will receive? If fairness and equity are key components of our county's values, then tell me why it only applies to certain aspects of education. My proposal is that elementary computer teachers be reinstated as the necessity that they are. Students should not be receiving proper computer education in full capacity beginning in third grade. They should begin as kindergarters who come to know and understand proper device usage. The satisfaction that comes from knowing I can actually introduce students to a technology tool and then grow their knowledge and understanding year after year is something that cannot be fully expressed through words. We learn by doing. We learn through consistency. That

259does not mean overuse. Again, it means proper use. My concern would be if that that if we are not seeing the need for growth at an early age, then who is to say that in future years another magic enrollment number will not be used to determine that computer education teachers are not necessary at the intermediate level as well. Please realize the importance and worth of computer education and reinstate what should never have been compromised in the first place. >> Questions for Miss Allen? >> Well, I guess my main question is um to her questions uh is somebody that can respond. >> Yes, that's I'm not going to repeat all your questions. They were good questions. >> They were good questions. >> Thank you. >> Um, >> do you want me to start with the specific

260>> Mr. Allen or >> Mr. I think that she wanted to know why, and this may not be true, but wanted to know why there would be um computer teachers at Spring Mills Primary and Hudesville Elementary. They're used and she was talking about calculation. They're used to cover people's planning periods so that everybody within the whole school building gets a planning period. So how it's calculated out is each special teacher can can um teach five classes in a day. So once you've mastered once you've taught five classes, you need for every five home rooms you need a special teach it it may be. Um so that's the way it's looked at. We need one person for every five home classrooms that you have. So that's how we determine how many special features are needed within

261a new structure of a building. >> And when you say special teachers, that that includes teachers other than computer teachers, correct? So that would be art, music. >> It could be anything. Art, music, PE, you could have STEM, you could have dance, you could have whatever you want. Like for instance, at the we have two PE teachers there. We added a sixth one there because of the numbers of students that we had. So they have our use of PE and they get they get um PE price. So it it's whatever the school could what actually the principal determines who want to wear at that moment what they want or what they need. >> At the elementary level it's PE, art, music, library and computer and usually library and computer group together instead of separately. It

262depends on the classes as well. Um the issue though is we are determining who as our students receive those services all of them versus who doesn't. And now it's affecting me personally as a parent who is not seeing my own daughter receiving the computer services that she deserves just because she's at a school that doesn't meet that requirement as per what is given. In the past, we've we've the principles put the emphasis on the art, music, and PE because they're graded subjects. And then library media has been lumped into one. Whenever you have to make a cut or downsize, it's been a library media specialist. >> And Mr. Mullen asks, does Winchester Avenue or Burke Street have that as well? they have a library media specialist and then they share the art, music and PE

263between another school because when you put the two schools together then you have enough enough um home rooms to warrant those teachers. So there so you have um a a media specialist and then you have our school split. Well, it it sounds from what you're saying that you're actually um evening the opportunities for students throughout the county instead of favoring one or the other. Is that correct? >> That's what we tried to do. Yes. >> And how does that affect the planning periods of the teachers in all those schools doing it this way? >> Well, everybody gives an equitable amount of time to blank. That's that's what you're looking at when you look at the master schedule of of a school. You look for that everybody gets equitable planning which is required by law. >>

264Is that what happens here now >> in in what's being proposed? >> Yes. >> And is that not happening currently >> in some schools? No, it is not. You find some schools are getting a lot more planning versus others. And that's something that we took a look at this this year. We looked at the master schedule. We were asked to take a look at it and to make things equitable and the way one of the ways that we had to make it equitable was to to look at how how much special what specials we had and how many opportunities there were within the school building to have these. Um so again when you look at equitable over the whole school you you found you you just had spots and that you didn't really particularly need

265a person to cover a class in order to get a discussion. My concern with the use of the word equitable is the fact that we are continuing to say equitable and yet it's not pertaining to our students as I just gave evidence to the fact that my own child is not receiving the same services that other schools are receiving due to the fact that these enrollment numbers and classes aren't the same. I understand there is a process that goes about with scheduling, but if we're going to use that term, we need to use it across the board. And I believe that includes making sure that my child is provided the same thing as everybody else. >> So, Lewis, you're saying that um um the elementary computer teachers um are used uh to fill planning periods

266>> across the county. Yes. And what schools uh do we not are they not equitable in? >> Well, I can give you a perfect example. At Eagle School, whenever it looked largely, I had two computer teachers because we had two computer labs. Then once once they did away with the the numbers dropped, I dropped a computer teacher and then actually the the lab was removed. So that's that it's just what you as a principal decide what you want to put your emphasis on as far as what specials that you want to offer within the school building. >> So is is there a couple schools that uh it's not equitable in? >> Well, I guess that's what I'm trying to >> Are there I would say that there there are equitable services. Is a an exclusive

267computer class being offered at every primary school? No. And Louis, could you answer which schools do not have a dedicated computer class? >> Well, um say off the top of my head, I I believe don't have that answer, but um it it is our smaller ones that that like you said, like Winchester Avenue, B um >> Tesora. >> Tuscalora. Yeah, they they have a library media specialist who can do either one. They could check out books and then also teach some skills that pertain to tech. Did inwood >> it did not >> they have a library media specialist they have a library media specialist. I'm a library media specialist. >> Right. They did not have a computer teacher. >> Right. >> So if they don't have a computer teacher, they have a library media specialist.

268>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Who does both duties? Yes. >> Questions for a man? >> Yes. Um um I'm looking here at the letter of April 13th. Now you're saying you're being terminated. I have received a request for >> transfer. transfer. >> Okay. This person to be considered transfer. >> Okay. I'm sitting here looking. I don't see a termination letter. >> Yes, sir. >> Well, you had your shift up there. >> Okay. I have another question. Um, you you're going back to saying that your daughter is not getting I'm trying to get a better understanding of what you mean when you say your daughter's not getting equitable services. >> Sure. when um versus other students what what are other students receiving or what instruction are they receiving that you don't feel your daughter's getting >>

269the plan for next year so I'm not talking currently I'm talking about the plan for next year right >> is that um she is at Roseman Elementary she has been with Mrs. So as one of her computer or as her computer teacher there is a computer teacher and a library teacher both at that school and what they've done is they've eliminated the need for Mr. um which was not expected and now they have a title one/ STEM teacher that's going to be filling that position and um as I stated I'm not sure how those two things go together truthfully um title one is based off of you know providing the intervention that we need to provide to the students who need it rightfully so um and STEM teachers are supposed to be um using um

270the best of to their best ability all of the resources oures that they can including the technology to be able to reach all students. I don't know how she is going to be able to do both in the capacity that this um uh position has been created and that happened not only at Firstmont but at Berkeley Heights and Opekin as well. >> So before we I'd like to help you he would ask too. >> I know he does. I know he does and I want him and actually I'm going to ask I am going to ask him to to fill in the the blanks to answer that question. However, we're talking about a position that we're not here on right now. So, if Mrs. Croyle believes that it's germaine, we're happy to answer that question,

271but I want to make sure that first is that we're talking about a transfer from Jared'stown, not specifically the issue of of But I'm not trying to avoid it. I want to make sure that we're not getting into any kind of problem. Well, the other person has not requested a hearing. Is that correct? >> I don't know. Mr. Kam Kamoski is the Is there There's another request today, I believe, for a hearing. Correct. >> Is that person from Rose? >> No. >> Okay. Is that person from um OPCA? >> Yes. >> Okay. And that's one of the questions that we have here. What I would like to be able to do is be able to answer the title one question first. >> Okay. and then and then let Mr. Mullenax talk about um Well, I

272I just want to make sure we're doing it the right way. >> You wait till the next hearing. >> Yeah. And I mean, we're we're here about this position that Miss Allen holds today. >> I just don't want to get in a sticky wicket because we were talking about something >> and and we're we're not here to talk about her daughter's situation, which is what I believe she >> told us to answer through email. So, I was making sure it was brought up to me. Yeah. Um and so you know if she wants to talk about a situation with her daughter and concerns then because she wants to speak to the board and you know there are avenues obviously to go through the folks here before coming to the board but she would come to

273the board as a delegation to speak about that. So I think if if the answer is gerine to Ms. Allen's position um then it then it needs to be answered. But if it's about your daughter, then I would indicate that one, it probably gets into someone else's hearing, and two, that might not even have requested a hearing for that matter. Um, and two, that it's it's not part of this. They're they're more useful. Um, so I guess what I should then uh further talk about is the fact that yes, there is a title one position that has now been made available for Mountain Ridge Primary. It went on the hotline Friday afternoon. I was not aware of that until that time. So I understand that there is a position that has now become available which

274I had hoped for from the very beginning to eliminate the need for a transfer. um because I thought that was how it was going to go. Um when the video the virtual video was presented for Mount Primary, it presented an innovation lab as a separate entity from the library. Um so I unfortunately you assumed that it was just going to go so that one of us will be taking over the library position and one of us will be taking over the innovation lab. So yes, there is now an innovation lab position that is available. My concern then lies in the fact that this is only guaranteeing a year. I'm not sure why we keep doing this whole guaranteeing for a year if we truly want to um get to these students early. Um, my other

275concern is just the fact that with the fact we've got a bond coming up, there's taxpayers money that is involved. And yet the initial idea was that this innovation lab was not going to be used to its full capacity. It was just going to be added on to whatever the library media person at the school was able to do. Um, that's concerning because if we're going to use our resources, we should use them wisely. And so, um, if, like I said, there is me speaking to the actual physician that is in hand. Yes, I'm on the transfer list. Yes, this has now become available. The problem is I'm concerned about longevity. Um, and that continues to be an issue. Um, and again, if we're going to make it so that these students are constantly using

276their devices for I Ready purposes, then we need to make sure that they're hopefully at some point seeing the devices in a different light and using them properly for what they should be intended for, not for the eye ready and not for um just something that is going to be put in front of them constantly. So there there is more concerning my actual position. >> Okay. So, one of the the things I think is important for the board to remember is that when we think about federal programs in Title One that schools that receive Title One dollars is because of their uh poverty status and that title one funds are to supplant I'm sorry I'm sorry to supplement not supplant what is already within a school district. So for example, you could not fund a

277computer teacher at a title one school with title one funds if we are providing computer teachers out of our general fund at other schools. And so when we were taking a look at staffing and we were looking at how were we appropriately and efficiently staffing our buildings when we recognized that schools that have 19 or less home rooms really is it 20 or less or 19 or less? >> It's 20 or less. Thank you. So, 20 or less home rooms could operate efficiently with four unified art rotations in order to be able to cover uh the teacher plannings and offer uh those enhanced uh learning opportunities. Some that are required by code like uh art, music, and PE. Um then it becomes okay well if if we have more than 20 home rooms then and

278you already have art music and PE then we can offer that fifth unified arts consistently across and equitably across the school district. But again because we were taking a look at the efficiency of what we're able to offer anything with less than 20 we were looking at only having four of those rotations. However, if a school that has title one s title one funding um and they are able to identify how um they can supplement what we're doing for all things being equal 20 classrooms or less that they could offer a supplement above what the school district offers by having a computer class or a STEM class or maybe it's a dance class or whatever it may be. Then we worked with those principles uh of those schools including the new Mountain Ridge Primary because

279Mountain Ridge Primary was identified as being able to receive Title One dollars. We worked with those schools to say, "Well, what do you think based upon your needs assessment would benefit students the most?" And that was where those those principles along with collaboration with Mr. Mullenax were able to say, "Well, we need we need intervention and we also need STEM." And I'm I would like Mr. Mullenax to explain how that would potentially work. Um, unfortunately at Mountain Ridge Primary, um, one of the things that we recognized is that they did have a STEM lab and the Mountain Ridge Primary was built to be able to accommodate more students than what will be there on day one. So we build it intentionally with some larger spaces and room to grow which would mean that after they

280get above 20 classrooms of 20 classrooms then under our again equitable formula that we provide for all schools they would get a fifth unified arts position. However, the new principal there said you know what we have the STEM lab we're receiving the title one dollars. We think it would be beneficial to be able to have a STEM teacher here as well. And so that's how that occurred. Unfortunately, as it relates to federal funds, we don't find out what our federal allocation is until late late spring. Um, >> sometimes later, not sometimes >> sometimes it's not even until July. Um, and so the preliminary allocation came out. We were able to to receive that and and I'll be honest with you, that was due to the reason we got it, if I can be completely honest,

281was because we were pushing very heavily on the Department of Education to release those numbers. I I contacted personally two or three people at the Department of Education and ended with the state superintendent to say, "We're told that it's coming out any day now, but we really really need this." And and so we pushed heavily to get some preliminary allocation numbers out. Um and that was so that we could make some decisions for our staff that we knew were on transfer because um it it never fails. And you know, the federal funds that we receive are allocated by the federal government. So the federal government is who actually says whether or not um you know you're going to get a 10% reduction or a 10% increase. And a lot of times that's being held up

282by the federal budget being approved by the United States Senate and Congress. And so when we when we are at the we are at the mercy of that red tape and we cannot overpromise that we can fund a position that we don't know that we're going to actually get money for. And do I wish it was different? Absolutely. But we have a fiduciary responsibility, the taxpayers of Berkeley County, that if we have 30 people that are funded by federal funds that we don't know that we're going to get the federal funds for, if we don't let them know by April 1st that there could be a reduction and then come July we get a 15% reduction, which is probably my goodness probably close to, you know, $1.5 million. um we're we would have to pay

283for those salaries out of general fund which we would not have you know it would eat into our rainy day fund. It would not be a a a financially responsible decision to make. So is it a is it a pain point for people that are in title one positions? Absolutely. Is it a necessary evil because of the the way that funding for public schools from the federal government to the state is is absolutely. Um and it has been a problem. It's been a challenge um that you know every single school district in the United States has to have to struggle with. So um Mr. Mr. Mullen, can you answer how hypothet Well, so at at the position in which is posted at the new Mountain Ridge primary which Miss Allen would have preferential uh she

284would have preference over it because of the the um >> K5 >> the K5. Well, it's not really the K5. It's the Mountain Ridge configuration from Inwood and for Jaredtown. She'll have preference there. Um what um that is that's a that's a full stem position. Correct. It's not there's no intervention in it. Is that correct? >> There's not. >> Right. So it's just full stem. >> And that again what we have to do is rethink title one. Title one for years has been it's been um remediation, reading and math remediation. If you think about West Virginia, what we've done in the past several years, we've added ECATs to all the different grade levels or interventions. So what Betty has been doing here recently is helping the principles to reimagine using their funds. So they get

285aotted the funds that come in, it's truly Betty and the principal looking at their strategic plans, um looking to see what their needs are and then they establish where they're going to spend the money. For instance, some of the schools are are purchasing social workers with their federal funds or other schools don't have them. Um the extra guidance counselors that that Betty has paid for out of title one. It just depends on what the school strategic plan reflects in there that they need and whatever they see as something that's going to benefit the kids. So, when we met with Mrs. Fry, she opted for an um innovation facilitator. It's what she's calling this position. No other school has it. Um and one of the reasons why she opted for that position was because of the

286space that's provided by Berkeley County taxpayers. So, she saw this need for the space. She said, "I think this is something and it's going to be it's going to look a little different than all the rest of the schools. It's going to be more of a co-eing model. It's not going to be a part of necessarily just of the rotation of specials. There might be a little bit of that combined in there, but it's going to be more of a co-eing model with those teach two teachers working together to be more a less um just innovating with tech throughout with using the curriculum. >> Does that position require an elementary education degree?" >> It does not. So, what does it require? >> Um, computer science and I think that's what they have it listed at.

287Jason, what is that what you could you tell me that >> two? >> I think we was computer science. >> So, we did a number of things. We did elementary ed, multi subjects. We put reading specialists in there and computer education. >> Does Miss Allen meet the MEA qualification? >> She does. >> And she would have preference. What is our >> certification is computer education pre-K through adult school librarian and media specialist pre-K through adult technology integration specialist prek is there any other certifications that that would give Miss Allen more opportunities to land in positions in the future or to apply for positions that she does not currently hold. >> I'll go ahead I would like Mr. Kimowski to answer the question first. Yes, >> I understand that. We've already had this conversation. Even if

288there were other certifications, I feel as if my certification hasn't been recognized for the years I've been in this county to begin with. So, I had already been asked that question if when Mr. Camelowski came to see me over my transfer and he said, "Is there any other certification you look to get?" I'll be very frank with you. No, I have worked very hard for what I've done and I will continue to work very hard for what I've done. I'm not here to just fill open positions that don't go along with what I believe I am good at. And I am very good at computer science. That's why I went into it. That's why I chose what I did. So he could tell me until he was blown in the face that this certification would

289help me here, there, everywhere. I'm not here to just fill a position. Just like Miss Shirley said before me, when it comes down to it, yes, we're put on a transfer list. Yes, we're guaranteed a position, but no, we don't want just anything. We want what is based off of what we are good at and great at. And that could have not have resonated with me more when Mrs. Shirley said that because that is indeed the case. It doesn't come down to let's get more certifications to see how far we can go. It comes down to the fact that I've gotten my certification. I'm very good at what I do and therefore that's what I'm sticking with. Does it make it so that my window is less? Sure does. But I know what I'm good

290at and I know what I should be. So I understand what you're saying. We had already had that conversation when he came for the transfer meeting. So that that's what I'm sticking with. >> Well, let me let me ask this question because maybe this would allow me the opportunity to know how I can help you in the future perhaps. Do you have a desire to teach computer at a high school? >> I will teach it at any level. >> You would teach there. Do if you had your preferences, would you teach at the elementary, middle, or high? >> Honestly, I've been to all of the grade levels and I'm open for any of them. >> Okay. Thank you. question. I I had a call from another school. I don't want to bring it up, but

291but the numbers 20 and 19 have been used here. And the information I got was that if you had 20 classrooms, you got a full-time computer person. If you only had 19 classrooms, you combined the library and and the computer person titles. Is that right? >> I'd have to ask Mr. Well, >> it's it's 20. If you have 20 whole rooms, then you right you it would be the it's the 21st that would bump you up too. You would need to have another person in order to make sure that everybody got an equitable plan. >> See, I I had the impression when I was talking to the person that there were 19 home runs and just because they were shy of one, they they had this blending of the things. And my second question then

292is if you have the the well I was just looking at a particular school and their scores and everything else and um I saw the the one position enhancing the success of that school on why they we just didn't have a halftime computer person. But any rate, I I heard 20 and 19 and yeah, you've thrown in 21. So, uh >> I just want to make sure. Do we have any schools that have 20 home rooms? >> Exactly 20. No, usually. Uh not particularly the ones that I have have utilized right here recently, it's been like 18 or 19 home rooms. Um and so there is wiggle room within their schedule even to have like adaptive classes and things of that nature. We've been adding extra things in for kids whenever they don't have it.

293For instance, to give you a perfect example, let's say you had 21 homes. We added another special teacher into that school or into that mix. Then we now have some even more open areas that we have to that's one of the reasons why one of the questions was why post a position that has STEM and remediation because when you post that that teacher is able to do you're going to put some people in in both in both settings because you're going to have wiggle room in the schedule and we want to utilize that person all day long for the most benefit for children. So that's why the creation of that position was created by the principles that has both of that. It's not that person playing that they're the only ones in the school building

294that are playing both roles. It's just to add to what you have. But but uh if somebody said earlier it was visual leader we have have here now I'm getting to mix those out but we have this I'm hearing that we're saying well if we have 19 classrooms or 20 one person can do the job. If we have 21 classrooms, we can get two people to do the job. Now, it doesn't seem it seems like you're you're looking at one person as being able to do two jobs or in very effectively, but yet when you get to one more classroom, then then you have two people. And it's it just doesn't make any sense to me sitting here thinking about well if you have two small schools like Winchester Avenue have 10 and third 10

295you can you can have one person sharing the two jobs but >> Mr. next year. >> That's great. >> Are there any other questions related to this transfer? >> If not, then I will call this uh hearing to conclusion and the board will vote on the super recommendation the next regular schedule meeting which is tomorrow, Tuesday, April. Thank you, Miss. >> Thank you. Whitney Martino. >> I could be >> Is this No, >> you just have to pick it up. >> Risk breaking it to fix it. This is a special meeting of the board. It's called for limited purpose of projecting request hearing. Uh the evidence to be considered by the board shall be limited to the information provided by the superintendent or superintendent design. The board of his recommendation and the information submitted by

296the employee. The request for a hearing has been made by Whitney De Martino. Watching the code requires county board of education to conduct hearings upon the written demand and employees who have been recommended for transfer. After the administration concluded with the offer of the evidence, the employee will be afforded the opportunity to present witnesses and evidence. The time to be afforded for the employees presentation shall be limited to 15 minutes. However, written statements or documents may be submitted by the employee to the board of education consideration inclusion of the presentation. The witnesses and evidence the board of education members will be awarded the opportunity to ask the superintendent and penetration along with the employee questions pertinent to the proposed personnel actions. This hearing will be recorded. U Martino, you requested a public hearing, correct? Okay.

297Anyone uh here today that will be presenting information on behalf of the administration, the superintendent or the employee, you'll please stand and raise your right hand. >> Do you swear the testimony you're about to give is the truth? The whole truth is nothing but the truth. >> I do. >> Thank you. For the record, we'll introduce those individuals and we'll begin with the administration of Miss Floren. >> Thank you. My name is Kim Flor. I'll turn for the administration. My name is Jason, executive director of human resources. >> I'm Louis the executive director of Bishop and Whitney T. Martino. I'm currently teaching. >> Thank you. And we'll begin with the superintendent statement. Moro. >> Thank you. And uh Miss D. Martino, let me give you a copy of the documents that the board has in

298front of them. And these are the documents that bring us here today and explain the reasons for your proposed transfer. As this first letter states, we are here upon the recommendation of the superintendent to transfer Misty Martino. She's indicated that she's a computer teacher at O Pek Elementary and that position is being eliminated. She has enough um seniority within the county to bump another teacher or to be placed on transfer for subsequent reassignment depending upon where she ends up. And the reason for that, as you've heard many times today, and I'll just state it briefly, and Miss Miss De Martino, we've we've seen you sitting patiently in the back of the room, so you've heard this as well. Um, but in order to fiscally and responsibly use the state, federal, and local funds that you

299all have, decisions at this time of year have to be made to realign the workforce. and those decisions must be honored before May the 1st so that students throughout the county um have opportunities looking into next school year and the board has managed its responsibilities in regard to its fiscal budget responsibly and so that's why we are here today um regarding Miss D. Martino's recommended transfer. Could you want to proceed? >> Oh, yes. I thought you were gonna tell me about the time frames and I heard that for others, but I already did that. So, >> okay. >> He already did that six times. >> Yeah, I know. I've heard it six times. Um, so I I know that a lot of what I'm going to speak to has been discussed, so please bear with

300me. Um, but I'm also going to take it in a slightly different direction. So hopefully it will, you know, bring in a little smile and and let you hear about some good things happening in our schools. Um, as we stated, my name is Whitney D. Martino and for nearly two years I've been the computer teacher at OPC Elementary. Um, I'll be completely honest, I understand that you guys have tough decisions to make on a daily basis. And so while I am here to ask you to reconsider the computer position, I'm not here with grandio expectations. I'm I'm realistic in it. Um, but I'm also not here just for myself. I'm I'm here to speak for the students in my school and for the staff in my school because it they really are important to me

301and to our community. So, a little bit of my education background. Taught first grade at OPEC for 15 years. Uh, while I was in the classroom, the computer class was mostly point and click on the website. Um, and so sometimes they would reinforce literacy and math skills. Uh, I did have to leave Berkeley County Schools to care for a family member. And honestly, when I returned, I was really excited to do something new after being in the classroom for nearly 20 years. Um, my understanding of the computer class prior to my hiring is that it continued to be an hour of point andclick on a website. And so if that's your understanding of some of our computer classes, um I definitely see where it seems like a good place to cut or take a scalpel

302instead of something more severe. Um but I'd like to take a minute to explain to you what I've done in my classroom for almost two years. So since I started, our campus simply refers to my class as tech, which definitely feels like a more appropriate label. Early on in the year, new students learn technology based responsible use inherit technology. Uh the difference between hardware and software components of our devices. We have iPads um as well as CPUs, monitors, keyboards, and mice. Um and I did actually get donations. So, we have wonderful keyboards with uh stands for our iPad. So, it's just like they're using a computer and the kids absolutely love it. We learned how to power them on and off, how to safely connect and disconnect accessories, and how to access different menus within

303settings. Returning students to review these skills. Uh to some of you, this may seem silly or insignificant because today's generation seems to have been born with technology in their hands. Uh but I can confidently confidently tell you that this is definitely not the case. Um, aside from the lack of tech skills they bring into our schools, there is also a complete lack of confidence while interacting with technology. Uh, when I tell you it takes a while, especially with kindergarteners, when I say, "Let's tap the green check mark." And they hover and they hover and I have to say, "That's it. You know, green, you know, check marks. You got this. Just do it." And they hover and they look at me. It takes a while to build that confidence. Uh we learn about staying safe

304online and especially with live video games which is something they access at home uh and social media because yes our K through2 students access both. We learn about navigating and troubleshooting and we build confidence through getting it wrong sometimes. We identify common icons and discuss how they won't always be identical across platforms but they will be very similar and these icons can give us clues to assist with navigating and troubleshooting regardless of the technology we're on. My student students learn to reconnect to the network when our devices don't autojoin as they should after a network failure. They learn how to turn on Bluetooth and AirDrop, how to export projects and items that they've created. Speaking of projects, we do a lot of them that I doubt you guys are aware of. Uh we utilize several

305apps consistently in my classroom. Keynote, for example. Within this app, students use what they know about icons to navigate tools to create. We take and edit photos to pair with writing activities. We discuss animations and learn how to create our own. They choose their build-in, their actions, and their build out. And um they love seeing what others have created and encouraging one another. My first and second graders complete a graphic organizer connecting animal facts uh collecting animal facts from kids National Geographic website and they use that information to create slideshows to then share with their peers and families. We discuss all the components necessary when presenting data in a chart. you know, a title, a graph, a data chart, uh, and a key. Uh, we collect class data, we create tally charts, input those numbers

306into a data chart, and discuss what we learned from graphs using the numbers app. All three grade levels, kindergarten including included, successfully complete this activity. We access and navigate the district provided platform, learning.com, and the kids strive to complete lessons with three star accuracy. Aside from iPad use, I also have incorporated STEM into my tech classroom and I know other K through2 or K through three uh computer teachers have done the same. We learn about engineers and how they solve problems. We discuss the three questions they always ask. What is the problem? Who has the problem? And why is it important? I'll share with you very quickly our most recent challenge. Uh at Opekin, I'm the go-to when it comes to technology. So last year, sorry I'm just not letting you guys know, I hired

307an assistant. Um she's our techie bunny. She's about this big and she's an eraser. And let me tell you, she always has a problem that the kids in my schools want to solve. Every time that bunny comes out, they know there's a problem. They know they're going to be engineers. >> And what's her name? >> Opek Bunny. >> Yeah, absolutely. Uh in the past few weeks, our students have discussed springtime and how everyone loves the playground. Uh there was just one problem. Our playground isn't accessible to our bunny. They were at they were tasked with constructing a slide for the bunny and there were three requirements. It had to go fast. The bunny had to be able to hop far at the end of the slide and it also needed to be safe. We discuss

308discussed incline planes, gravity, momentum, friction friction, speed and distance. They completed the entire engineering process asking questions, imagining, planning, creating, testing, improving and presenting and reflecting. Their planning was done on their devices. They used hands-on materials to construct and after testing they uploaded photos of their slides and added distance data before submitting to Seesaw. Kindergarten classes obviously did these in small groups. Uh but my first graders and second graders worked in pairs to complete the project. Uh these are skills that I have spent all year modeling, teaching, and reinforcing not skills they came into school with. Um speaking of accessibility, did you guys know October is AAC awareness month? I can do awesome. >> Uh yeah, they absolutely do. I collaborate with our SLPs. Um we collect communication devices and the kids in my classes

309get a week to interact with communication devices, discuss and acknowledge and really focus on the differences that we have of people in our school and people in our communities um in our world. They get to see and interact with the devices and they're encouraged to slow down a little bit and include our students who don't use their voice to talk but a device. One of our students actually has a student sibling who uses a communication device and she absolutely lit up that uh and she got to meet my tiny teacher and tell them all about her sibling and how he is a kid just like them. The same likes and dislikes and fears. Um he just happens to use a device to talk. Uh we also assemble robots and code them. We spend a couple

310weeks learning about algorithm algorithms first through verbal directions and body movements then through modeling and whole group practice followed by independent practice on digital platforms. We have 18 Lego spy kits that function with an app on their device. The app tells a short story and presents them with a problem and they assemble robots, attach the battery and motor, use Bluetooth to connect them to their app and then code their projects. They code them to solve a problem, but they also code for fun. And they absolutely love it. All these projects foster collaboration, problem solving, communication skills, and resistance within our students. and they're all vital for the ac the success in their educational journey and through their adulthood. Um, part of the beauty of my class is that there is some freedom to integrate real

311life social skills with technology. These skills are important to success and happiness and aren't built into any specific classes. They're introduced by our counselors and reinforcement time allows. But school counselors are spread so thin and it is impossible to adequately support every student every day. I teach a unit on emotions. And before you feel some way about that, because some people do, hear me out. Uh, we read a story about emotions, what each feels like in our body, some reasons we might feel that way, and how to identify, name, and communicate what we're feeling. Something that always shocks new students is when I say there are no bad emotions, not even anger. They show up to give our brain information about the world around us. And it's okay to be mad. It means something isn't

312aligning with our expectation. Uh, but it's not okay to be mean. I have seen pivotal transformations in students and stu studentto student relationships and student to staff relationships um when kids find their peaceful spot regulate and communicate what they need in any given moment. Um I actually did a staff presentation so that our school could use um common language when it comes to things like that which has really helped support our students in identifying those things. Um but I do teach tech so we use this opportunity uh with the free form app. The students each made an emoji of themselves and then we went through and we found different facial expressions and um body languages to show how they actually feel when uh they're feeling those different emotions. And when I tell you it has

313made such a difference in some of these kids when I say what are you feeling? Let's think about it. What does that look like? and the peer-to-peer relationship. So many problems have been solved between the two between two students because they're learning to recognize each other's facial expressions. And when I lean back, that means I want some space. Um, all from creating emojis and discussing those things in a classroom that affords us the freedom to do that. So a big focus in Berkeley County is academic vocabulary. We spoke we focus heavily on that in my classroom. We summarize, construct, utilize, distinguish, research, accessibility, analyze, investigate, examine, identify, interpret, and determine. And all of these words are used frequently. First modeled and then used um in student discussion. I disc I support classroom learning by discussing

314math and math and literacy skills at every opportunity. Sometimes while introducing new vocabulary words with kindergarten, we'll say each syllable and they have to put it together. Um, I have a background in teaching reading and so I use that every opportunity I can. Um, so just a quick recap of what I do in my current position. I introduce engineering in the engineering process to all grade levels. Encourage and provide opportunities for collaboration outside the box thinking, problem solving through STEM integration in my classroom. Uh, encourage and provide opportunity for students to feel confident and safe navigating tech uh, browsers, apps, settings. My kindergarteners can tell you two ways to reconnect to the network. Um, which I'm really proud of because they're the babies who just standed at the beginning of the year. Um, we the

315kids I encourage and provide opportunities for them to create. They do presentations and slideshows, animations, emojis, camera manipulation and use, photo manipulation and editing, robotics and coding. Um, and I know that was kind of a point of the conversation in the previous hearing, and I'm not sure if I'm allowed to speak to that, but here we are. Um, using it in ways that aren't just babysitters or aren't just you've got to do this to get your minutes in. Um, we've got kids in our county who deserve that. And I think if we don't show them the other side of technology, that's all they're going to know. they're going to know video games, they're going to know TV, and they're going to know getting in my minutes so that I can have fun Friday or whatever

316it is, you know. Um, but I also do a lot of things for my school because I'm also this this off. Um, which is it includes a lot and I have a list here and I know I'm everyone is probably just about ready to go home. So, I'm going to try to be mindful of that. Um, >> I want you to take your time because you've waited here. >> I know. >> We're listening. Hey, >> I will flip back. Jackie, >> you're listening. So, go ahead. Don't rush. >> Um, so as the computer teacher and as the as the computer teacher, I teach 18 home rooms and two adaptive classes a week um for the three AU classes. So we combine those students and I have two of those which does get me that number

31720 but um I communicate with the district to ensure all students have a completed AP and update that information u and make sure things are updated uh in weas. Same thing with our SEO which is how we get federal funding we have to make sure if we're going to provide internet and technology to kids that we teach them how to be safe on it. Um and that is something I do that gets updated in weis at the end of the year. Um, I keep track of the school website and ensure the ADA compliance with the SIS off. I work on work orders. Uh, they're kind of they come through me. Everything in my school comes through me and I either handle it and close it or pass it along depending on what the issue is.

318Um, which I know probably makes other people's jobs much easier. Correct. >> Um, I I distribute communication from the district. So, anytime our district IT sends out something that something is going on or there's going to be a change or here's a better way to do this, um, I communicate that with my staff members. And honestly, I know which staff members, I love all of them, but I know which staff members are going to need a little extra um, handholding from me and I'll make sure to do that u because I think if they're supported, they're better better able to support our kids. Um, let's see. Oh, I assign, enroll, and configure devices for new students throughout the year. Assign staff MacBook MacBooks andor iPads throughout the year as necessary. Um, assisted with the updates

319and troubleshooting for all the MacBooks. And the updates this year were something else. Um, I provide PD and assistance for my teachers with the new line boards. I support our staff with Zesaw and other required technology apps. And that is huge in kindergarten because these kids are coming in. These kindergarten teachers are already overwhelmed and they don't have the time or ability to sit and it would take them the first half of the year to get these kindergarteners ready. Um I I've done staff PDs to help support technology in the classroom. I make myself available for the teachers, coordinate with special ed and district IT teams uh for student device use, repair, updates, and connectivity. Um, I create tr create and troubleshoot Microsoft forms and spreadsheets related to our attendance within the office, which I

320need to add to my list because we need to go update that when I get back. Uh, is this the school nurse with technology related to student care and health management? We do have some students um who do require devices that are technology and I support our nurse with that. Um, same thing with the cafeteria staff, their device and account management as well as hardware issues. Uh, apparently the IT person who works with our cafeteria, that position was eliminated and I don't know if it fell back on me and I wasn't sure of it, uh, or if I just stepped up and did it because they need it. But that is another thing that I'm not doing. Um, I assist our staff, students, and families with connectivity, navigation, uh, and micropunk teams, especially during remote

321learning. Um, I know for remote days, special teachers have like an hour in the morning and the hour in the afternoon. I'm pretty much in meetings or on email or on my phone the entire day with families and staff members trying to make sure everybody can get where they need to be. Um at the beginning of the year completing all the device maintenance, inspecting updates, repairs, um student devices is necessary, ensure that the chargers are functional and returned, communicate with them with student return devices and also with the district IT team in case we need to flag them. Uh, I sort, maintain, and distribute all the devices that were stored at the school over the summer. And I'm not sure what's that's going to look like this year. Last year, we had a lot. Um,

322and had a nice little system going. Uh, for kindergarten, all of the new kindergarten students, it's setting up an entirely new device for them. Uh, same thing, enrolling, assigning, configuring, updating, um, the accessibility, and distributing those devices, sorting them for each classroom, and getting them to them. Um, I create, sort, and distribute login cards for all the students in the building so that every teacher has access to their students. I go through and save it so they don't have to worry about it. And we make sure they have QR codes, but I also make sure all the teachers get a login or just in case and I'm not available. Um, for new staff, we I help them with um requesting devices through the district. uh and then do the same thing that I do with

323student devices for their devices and make sure and then I acclimate them with our digital world, our platforms, our devices and our accounts. A lot of people coming into Berkeley County brand new are not familiar with some of the platforms that we use. Um and so that also takes some time. Um, at the end of the year, kind of the same thing. Do a lot of things with collecting devices, um, making sure all the families who are keeping devices at home have what they need. Um, and know the expectations of taking that device home for the summer. Um, if they're not last year, families that didn't take them home, I collected I collected collected them, updated them, made sure they were charged before I powered them off and stored them. uh to kind of make

324it a little easier at the beginning of the year because it is it is a love for one person. Um so I I received my transfer letter the afternoon I believe of March 17th and so on the 18th just for my own curiosity I started documenting how many times I provide tech support within my school. So since then I've taught 74 classes and um I have this is in a little tally chart with the things that I've done. Uh since that time uh 136 times within my building I have been pulled or stopped or emailed or received a work order to do something. Uh and I say that not to make it seem like I'm some phenomenal employee because there are things that I would be doing anyway. Um, but I took the time and

325I know we've discussed the Title One funding and a different position and potentially kind of combining a couple things. Um, and I believe it was mentioned before, you know, we want to utilize people from the time they get there until the time they leave. Um, and I'm not sure if it's the same in every other school buildings. Uh, but in my building in the the nearly two years I've been doing this job, I can count on my hands how many times I have had an uninterrupted lunch break. Um, there have been days when there has been so much going on that I've gone and sat in my car because I just need five minutes of nobody asking me for something or not getting an email. And I'm not complaining when I say that because I

326absolutely love I love what I do. I taught in the classroom for 17 18 years and I definitely love that but I needed a change and I found this and I I truly do love it. I truly feel it is something that I'm genuinely good at. Um, and like I said, I know a lot of people have spoken to a lot of things and we talked about um, being able to utilize people um, while they're in the building. I genuinely I mean change isn't a bad thing and I did apply for the the interventionist in steam position. Um, and I believe I was recommended for that and I I would love to do that. Um, I personally have a little bit of anxiety trying to figure out how what that's going to look like. And

327I think because it's something new, trying to figure out what that's going to look like with all of the things that I currently do. Um, not that I'm not up for a challenge. Uh, but I think my biggest concern is similar to the person who had a hearing before me. I think about our students and I think about this new position being on a yearly basis. It's federal funds. There's nothing we can do about that. Um, and it almost breaks my heart a little bit that we might be in this position again next year. Uh, because I think about the kids in my school and I think about how much I've seen them grow in just two years. uh the things that they learn, the confidence that they have using technology. And I just think,

328what happens if we can't find funds for positions like this and we have these students who get to third grade and there's a huge discrepancy between what they've been able to learn and the confidence they have using technology that is so prevalent in our society and the kids who have had it, you know, and so I don't necessarily know if those are all I have more, but you know, here we are. It's been a long day for all of us. Um, I guess those are some of my questions. Um, I'm hoping that as a board you guys see the importance of a position like this. And I know I definitely understand giving everyone an equitable planning. Um, and I don't ever want us to be irresponsible financially, right? We we have a job to do

329as school districts. Um, but I also think it's irresponsible not to think of the bigger picture with some things like this. Um, and that is my big concern. What happens if we're in this position next year? Like great, we have come up with the solution for the following school year, but then what happens? And I think I have some of the same concerns as other people on the transfer list. Um, as a parent, as as a person, an adult with responsibilities, I have to also weigh the options of I don't know if I'm going to this job is going to continue being available, you know, and so, do I look for other things that I can rely on or do I just keep going year after year after year hoping that there will be something

330that I love and that I'm good that. Um, sorry. See, this is why y'all want me to read because I just go on if I don't read. Um, so those are some of the things I think I just really want you guys to consider. Um, because like I said, it's impossible to be in all the classrooms all the time, to really always know what's going on all the time. Um, and we've got some really good things going on and we're not constantly calling and emailing and say, "Hey, look what I did." Like, it's it's not about that. But also sometimes I think it's worth speaking to. These are the things that we're doing. Um, and there's value in them for our kids, for our community, for the future of Berkeley County. Um, yeah. Questions? I

331have one from Louis. Um, I know you said the magic number was 19 or 20, but if there's 18 um, home rooms there and you're trying to balance that out for planning periods, what's wrong with the number 18? >> I don't understand your question. What do you mean by >> Well, maybe I don't understand. Well, well, you said like 18 like each special teacher can cover five classrooms in a day in planning. So, you need that extra person whenever you fall in that in that range. Um, so we have wiggle room in schools. We we do, but we have certain things like adaptive PE, we have adaptive classes. We do take those things into consideration also. So, we're looking at the situation. We work also with the department of special ed to say what what

332truly is needed within this school that they let us know and then we calculate that number based on covering those plings and having having what meeting the kids needs. So really truly it's it's five it's for every five home rooms. It's an easy way to calculate that you need a you need some type of a special. Um and again that really has went down to the the building and the what what we've had in the building where we could actually add another person and actually um Mr. Murphy was talking about how you know like if you had like one extra a principal opted last year not to hire another teacher what he did is he went to a PE teacher and said would you do one set and the the PE teacher said I sure

333would and gave up their planning and that's the way we solved the problem. We then hire an additional teacher. It really comes down to working it out with the principal to figure out what we need for each school. >> But to answer your question, 18 just means that it's less than the 20. So you don't they can they can they can operate efficiently with four unified arts. Same thing as if you went below 15, >> we'd probably look at three. Yeah. >> You know, so >> that would be a little rough, but I can >> it would be rough, but yes. >> But there are schools all across West Virginia that have to do that. Yes. >> Because their enrollment is so low. So, we're luckily not in those situations. >> And it would be

334easier if we put them together with another school like we do and split the specials. That makes it easier because then we can we can keep people hired. >> Can I say something really quickly? I know you are 1,000% just being listening telling us how it is and I completely understand. Um, from a staff member position, it it kind of it definitely makes I can speak from having conversations with other teachers. It definitely makes people people feel some sort of way to hear I'm only needed to cover another teacher's planning and not what I teach has value. >> Yeah. >> And I'm not I'm not saying that negatively. I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I'm just I have heard that a lot. A lot of people feel like what they do isn't

335seen as valuable, which is part of the reason I wanted to share this the way that I did today. >> And I couldn't I I totally agree with you. And if I've ever come across that way or we've ever come across that way, that's not our catch. I think sometimes we do look at it like, you know, we're trying to look at resources and we can put it together and then being with the principles. I I understand your value. >> I think it's I think you're exactly right, Mr. from Molax and I appreciate you bringing that up because that is >> you know a lot of times we get into operational you know and we never want to come across that way. Um, you know, I am a per, you know, personally I'm a I'm

336a huge advocate of the arts and making sure that, you know, we have we have programs because I think like a well-rounded education includes the arts, but I also see exactly what you're saying is that it also includes these other opportunities for students to have access, right? And sometimes we can do that through a dedicated teacher. Sometimes we have to blend it if if you know while we don't want to have to that may be the only way um financially we can make that work. Um but the work that any whether you're an interventionist whether you're an art teacher, a music teacher, a computer teacher, a librarian, um the the the support that you're providing those students and the opportunities you're providing students cannot be overstated. Um >> and I don't feel like it was

337being said that way. No, but it's a but but if but but we also it's very important that we say that because it's because it's the truth. >> It comes across sometimes that way. >> Oh, we don't want that. >> Yeah. And I mean >> it comes across transactional. >> Get so caught up in the logistics that you don't really think of how it might be impactful or we don't want there to be a disconnect between our district office and our board and our campus staff members. Um we all need to be on the same page. >> Mr. Martin, >> um you mentioned 1800 rooms. What was what was two other >> um adaptive? So we have three AU classrooms in our school. Um some of those students push in with their gym at home

338home room classroom. Um but some students come on their own. Um so that instructional time is slightly different uh based on their needs. And so we do have at our school this year two adaptive classes. I have one on Monday and one on Tuesday. Um and then the other the third classroom sends kids with classes. >> Okay. And that's not within that calculation. >> We do we do that calculation. So we count those to the whole room. That's what we would do. Yeah. And we work with special ed to determine the number and then we take a look at the number then we make a decision. >> Okay. Thank you very much. >> Yes. >> Mr. Murphy. Um what position will your job be given to after you're transferred out? Um the com the computer

339class that I have been teaching is being eliminated and there is an opportunity to do all of those classroom all of those computer classroom class responsibilities um through the title one funded interventionist and STEM coach uh which is wonderful. Uh I did have someone stop me and say how are you going to do that? who are always running around this building helping someone or fixing something. Um, which does, you know, make me feel some sort of way because I I don't know what that that would possibly look like. I don't think anyone does. And uh, like I said, change isn't bad. But that position that is solely for teaching those students with the tech um, is being eliminated. >> And and I think I can answer that question. Um, Mr. from act. Correct me if

340I'm wrong, but a lot of that's going to be determined by the principal >> and having the STEM/intervention provides flexibility for the school leadership to be able to say, "Okay, here's how many home rooms we have. Here's how many sections we have, so on and so forth. And here are the open spots that we would want to be able to leverage someone to be able to provide intervention at different times of the year." Perhaps it might not even be the entire time. Um, so it provides flexibility at the school to afford someone the the the um ability and the school the ability to assign someone into some helping with helping uh target intervention for students. >> So again, it's all about the flexibility and I think it's really going to be between the person who

341gets that position and the principal in fleshing that out. >> Talk about bidding on that position. I have I have I did um I think I think I've been recommended and that's going to be part of the vote. >> I think she's on the agenda for tomorrow, correct? >> Yes. But I think it is one of those things the part that concerns me the most is the funding and the potential of being in this position again next year. Um and I don't know what that looks like. I I'm above my pay grade. Um, but I wanted to speak to it here just so it's something on everyone's mind because it is some I mean you guys have a lot and um I'll just share what I have for you. >> No sleep tonight for me.

342>> So this this other position is still okay. >> Okay. And not splitting with any other school or >> not splitting with another school. Just tagging the two the two positions together. Mhm. >> So, um, can you integrate a lot of what you do into this? >> Yeah, >> that's >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Absolutely. The So, the steam coach portion of it would essentially be what I do because I did take the computer class and and turn it into more of like a STEM um class of engineering and robotics, which is good. >> I actually think it's a better alignment what you were doing this the STEM description. I mean, you just what you explained you were how you transitioned that computer class. >> You weren't really doing it as much as a computer

343class as you were really a a STEM because you were integrating science, technology, math. >> I think that's important. And I got rid of the computers. They didn't work very well. I was >> Yeah, because I was so impressed by the, you know, list of things you do for kids. So, >> that makes that made me feel better that that's all that's integrated in this STEM coach. It's it's actually the the majority of I mean it's the primary responsibility. So >> Mr. Dr. Sax this will this will not only be happening at Opekin what other schools will this be? >> Um I want to say it was Opekin Berkeley Heights and Rosemont >> and will the same thing be going on there or will there be different blendings? >> I believe were they the same

344job description? >> Same job description. Yes. Well, that's that's comforting. >> The c the caveat is Mountain Ridge Primary, which is full STEM. >> Yeah. >> And the reason for that is because again, we build a beautiful building there. We have space that utilize. >> But most of these positions, Michael, they're all were were all of them um federal fedally funded. >> Uh the four positions I just described. Yes. >> Okay. So, okay. >> So, all >> and we didn't know that we would be able to until we received those federal the preliminary federal allocation, >> right? >> And I will say I love that you guys are able to do that and and work closely with school administration to make sure that happens. Um, but I also know that we've got a teacher in

345this district who does a phenomenal job in the position we're in right now and they chose not to follow through with it next year because of the uncertainty of it in following years. Um, that's kind of heartbreaking, you know. Well, unfortunately that's >> if we could just get our state and we could just get our our state and our federal authorities to be able to fund public education where we needed to be, then that would be a huge win for sure. >> That's right. >> That we've had a few. So, yeah, >> November. >> Any other questions for Whitney? >> Thank you. Okay, that concludes this hearing. The board will vote on the superintendent recommendation as regular scheduation. >> Thank you so much. >> I'll turn it back over to you. >> I had a

346question. I want to know when we were going to deliver. Well, you could go in you could go into executive session now to deliberate in advance of tomorrow if you would want if the board would so choose or you could do it during the personnel section at tomorrow's board meeting. >> What's your pleasure? >> I'd rather look at this. >> I was find out but it was so fresh in my mind but >> that one's waiting to come. >> You could always do both. You could always this you could always deliberate now and if you wanted to tomorrow have a have another one. You definitely could. >> So >> what's what's your pleasure? >> That's good. >> Well, just know that I have all this on my mind and it's I but >> I do

347too. But >> go on say something. >> I'm good now. for me. >> No, I can wait. >> Doesn't matter. >> I quite frankly for tomorrow night and so I'm ready. >> You're ready. We'll go back. >> Okay. Can I have a motion to go in executive session? So second in favor >> in favor in executive session at looks like 505