001Oops. Hold on. Hold on. Thank you. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. >> This is quite the crowd we have here today. I'd like to call the Penmanor School Board Committee the whole meeting for Tuesday, January 20th, 2026 to order. The next scheduled meeting of the Penmanor School Board will be held on Monday, February 2nd, 2026 at 7 p.m. in the large group instruction room of the Penmanor High School. An executive session was held prior to the committee of the whole meeting for the purpose of discussing personnel in a student matter as detailed above. Mrs. Rose, may we have a roll call, please? >> Sure. Mr. Beaks >> here. >> Mr. Her >> here. >> Mrs. Hope >> here. >> Mrs. Kek >> here. >> Mr. Lombardo >> here. >> Mr. Warfl >> here. >> Ms.
002Wart >> here. >> Mrs. Napsiger >> here. >> Dr. Fullerton >> here. Nine board members present. >> I would love to entertain a motion to approve the minutes of our January 5th committee of the whole meeting. >> So moved. >> Thank you. A second. >> Second. >> Thank you. Any further comment or question? All those in favor. >> Eight affirmative votes. Mrs. Nassiger. >> Yeah. >> Nine affirmative votes. >> And I'll turn it over to Dr. Gail. >> All right. Thank you, Dr. Foron. Uh tonight uh just want to take a few minutes to uh recognize all of you, our school board directors. Uh January is school board director appreciation month. Uh so tonight we want to just take a few minutes uh to recognize the time the efforts that you give as volunteers to
003our school district. Uh continuing with past practice, uh a book has been selected in your honor that will be placed in each of our schools libraries. Uh however this this year the book is a little bit different because typically each of you received a book that was different from your other your other colleagues but this year everyone is receiving the same book to be placed in the honor of in in each of our libraries and this is going to go into all 10 of our libraries. Uh the book is titled Me and My Tree and this was written by Chris Perry and then put to publishing by his parents after Chris passed away. Uh Chris was a member of the Penman class of 1992 and then went on to study at the University of Pittsburgh
004and was a teacher in the school district of Lancaster for 22 years. And Chris leaves behind the legacy of being a remarkable scholar and an athlete. And the past year, Chris was in inducted into our athletic wall of honor uh for his accomplishments in the swimming pool while he was here at Penn Manor and then also at the University of Pittsburgh. Uh but Chris was probably also kn known more than just his accomplishments as an athlete and as a scholar, but he was known for building up his teammates. He was remembered as a major source of success for the teams that he participated with and then his good spirits and camaraderie. Uh and again he his gifted athlete was also accompanied but athleticism was accompanied with an infectious smile, a generous soul and a funloving
005spirit. And these are words that Dr. Kim Garvey used when she induced him last year at the induction ceremony. And really, this book uh speaks to who Chris really was, a person who provided encouragement to those who need it. I do want to give credit to Dr. Cox and Mrs. Nassinger uh for developing this plan. I think it was right after the ceremony that the two of them started talking about the fact that we should have Chris's book in all in all of our libraries and that it should be placed there in honor of each of you. So, we want to make sure that you are seeing this and then we will also be placing in the front if it's not already there just a little placard that recognizes that it's given in your honor
006and from Chris and his family. And then also at your seat is a way for you to show your PMER pride when you are traveling with your favorite drink uh to and from wherever it might be. I just would caution you not to leave those around because I'm sure there will be others that would appreciate one as well. Uh and again, these these are just small tokens for the appreciation uh for all that you do to serve the Penman community. Uh we recognize that school board as school board directors, you make key decisions uh on issues such as school district property, the budgeting policy, hiring of the superintendent and other resources. None of it which is very exciting, but you do it with great diligence and you do it time and time again and many
007of you have committed many many years to uh supporting our district. So, we appreciate your service to the community and we just want to take a moment to just say thank you. And we know that each of you has a unique role in the success that we as a school district experience. And from our taxpayers to our citizens, to our current students, and to our future students, we just greatly appreciate all that you do. So again, small token appreciation, but thank you very much for everything that you do. Thank you, Dr. Gail. And um you know, it's always something cool to have a book uh dedicated in in your honor, and it'll this book will outlast all of us on this board. So, thank you for that. Thank you for this on behalf of the
008board. Um, we do it for those individuals that are sitting out there, um, sitting in the classrooms at all of our schools, for our community members, so that, um, when we leave Penn Manor, however that may be, we leave it in a better spot than what we arrived. So, thank you. >> Thank you. And with that, we will move on to board opportunities and reports. Do we have any board reports at this time? Miss Navinger, I'll cover you with the opportunities. Is that all right? >> That's fine. I have them ready, but you go for it. >> All right. Remember, Saturday we have our winter board retreat and it is at Drew Moore Estates. So, you cannot be late. >> I will not be late. >> All right. And it starts at 8:30 and we
009should be done before the 2 and 1/2 ft of snow that we're supposed to get. >> No school on Monday. >> He doesn't have the power to do that. I really don't. So, >> he was talking about yesterday, Monday, by the way. >> Um, and we have another board meeting prior to our next board breakfast, which will be at the high school on Tuesday, February 10th. And please make sure that you mark your calendars for Wednesday, June 3 for commencement. So, we will move on to um the main event of this evening. We're going to invite Mr. Tossy up. >> Yep. Uh this evening I asked Mr. Tossi, our athletic director, to come and provide us with a little bit of an update on our fall season, but most importantly to recognize many of our
010student athletes for their accomplishments uh on and off the field. Mr. Tossy, >> thank you everyone. I really appreciate again the opportunity to come here and be able to speak to the board. Um, one of the things I really look forward to, and I think I'm probably a broken record because I say this all the time, probably one of my favorite parts of the job is the ability and the opportunity to be able to come and speak to the board to brag about our student athletes, our teams, and our coaches. I mean, I think across the board, they just do a phenomenal job. And the amount of work both our student athletes and coaches put into their teams, it's just remarkable. And it's something as a Pen Manor community, we should all be very proud
011of. Um, and I know all of you are. So, I know I really also really appreciate all the support of the board and the administration and when I talk to our coaches and our student athletes, I know they feel that support, you know, as well. Um, this fall again, we just had another great fall season. Maybe we didn't get as many wins and losses across all of our teams as we would like, but again, we still had a lot of great success. Uh, one of the highlights that I really liked is that we had 29 student athletes earning either section, league, or all state honors. Again, across all of our sports, that's really a remarkable number. Uh, I think almost every one of our sports, except for maybe one, had earned some type of league
012or section or all state honor. A couple team highlights I just really want to hit on. Girls cross country. I think I brought them up at our last board meeting. Just had a phenomenal season. We had a brand new coach, 22 years old, right out of college, and just came in and did a remarkable job with our program. They had their best season since 2011 with a sixth place finish at the league championships which qualified them for districts. They defeated Hempfield I think for the first time maybe in history but at least in over 20 years which was really exciting for them and that entire team is returning next year. So some really big goals and hopes for that program and really excited about the direction they are going in. It's just it's they're fun
013to watch. They're and just great student athletes. like they're the type of kids you it's easy to cheer for. You want to see them have success. Our girls soccer team had an outstanding year. They ended up finishing second in the section. Then they went in uh one took went on on the road for two games to win them both. Made it to the league finals where they played at um Pen Medicine Park and lost a really tough game to Manheim Township in the finals. Then they went out and then were the eighth seed in the district championships and went and knocked off the number one seed Cumberland Valley in the quarterfinals and a really big upset which put them into the semifinals. When they made it to the semi-finals that qualified them for the state
014championships. So they lost a heartbreaking game in the state semi I mean the district semi-finals. They were so close to making that district finals. But um just their effort and what we saw throughout for that team throughout the year was just really exciting and really I mean they were a fun team to watch and I think that district game up at Cumberland Valley was just one of the best sporting events I got to watch in a number of years. While the team had a lot of success, I do want to make special recognition of one our players uh Lily Rineer. Lily is our senior leader on the team. Uh Lily had just an outstanding year where she earned all league and all state honors. And what really impressed me most about Lily was that she
015battled back last year from a serious injury. She did not get to play her junior year. And I think where you see student athletes when they come to that crossroads in your senior year, you can go one or two ways. And Lily not only elevated her own level of play her senior year, she elevated the team's level of play with her leadership and her skill and determination on the field. And it was just it was impressive and it was fun to watch and I think that was how you saw that team have that success in the postseason and that's a true reflection on her efforts and but one of the things that I'm really impressed about with Lily also is they really she empath empizizes the term student athlete. Not only is she a leader
016on the field but she is one in the classroom as well ranking in the top 10% of her class with a GPA over 4.4. So when you think about student athlete, it definitely you can see her picture in that title. I was asking coach Davidson about her and I thought he really described her in a great way and he said, "Lily is a player who embodies toughness, leadership, humility, and excellence. She is what we hope all of our student athletes become." Next year, Lily will continue her academic and athletic career at Messiah University, and we wish her the best of luck and really congratulations on an outstanding year. Yes. I just want to say thank you for this recognition and I'm very blessed to have had the opportunity to play for Pen Manor girls soccer
017and to be part of Pen Manor athletics. Thank you. And and Lily, before you walk away, I will add to this that uh you know, Lily has been one of those names that we heard about well before Lily even got to high school. And she certainly lived up to all of the the notoriety that was coming uh and as as both a leader as well as an athlete. And you know, it was it was a hard one for all of us to watch last year when you weren't able to play. Uh but the way you came back and played this year, uh a lot of credit goes to you and your determination and we are pleased and happy for you that you will be continuing your academic as well athletic career at Messiah close to
018home but far enough away. Right. Right. >> Yeah. Yep. Yep. That's important too. >> Uh and going to and playing possibly for one of the better programs at the division 3 level. So we wish you a lot of luck and congratulations on rec on this recognition of of all state. Um, you know, when you think about all the teams, all the high schools that have athletes playing across the state in girls soccer, it's quite a quite an accomplishment for you. So, congratulations and thank you. >> Thank you so much. I appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Next, I'd like to just talk a little bit about our field hockey program. I think we all know what an outstanding season they had. Um, one of the things that I, again, I use the word impress, but
019I really respect and I love about the field hockey program. When somebody asks me like what makes them so successful, and I look at it and I go, they do all the little things right, and the little things matter. And I think you can look at the team like you go in their locker room, it's spotless, they write thank you notes, they take gratitude, they take pride in all those little things. And when you take pride in all those little things, that leads to success. And I think it's the one thing that that this program does so well and it's just they make sure every little thing matters and then that the big things happen. Um their season was ab absolutely outstanding. I'm going to let coach Sudter come up and speak about their season
020and some of their players. But before I do that, I do want to offer a huge congratulations to her and her staff, who by the way are all PM alums who played here, which is really exciting. You don't see that too often. I'm being named the National Field Hockey Coaches Association regional coaches of the coaching staff of the year. And this is just an outstanding honor and recognition. And coach Sudter was recognized for this honor this past week down at the national convention in Florida. So congratulations to their coaching staff. So I'm going to have Coach Tudtor come up and say a few words about the program and some players. And I think then the players are going to introduce themselves. >> Hi everyone. Um this was a very exciting year for um our field
021hockey program and I'm super proud of what they accomplished on the field but also equally impressed and proud of what they do as individuals and how they've represented our school on and off the field. I'd like to thank you all as the school board and our entire community for your support during our postseason run. Um, seeing everyone rally around us from the pack stands to streaming on the live live stream um was really remarkable to see. We received many notes and messages of encouragement. Um, and we really appreciated it. Uh, that support that we received um just really it's a made it even more of a year that I will remember forever as a coach. Um, yeah. So, our collective success this year was historic. We were league champions and district three champions. Um, we
022reached the state semifinals and lost in an absolute heartbreaker. And most importantly, the team maintained a 3.9 cumulative GPA. It's pretty impressive. Um, I would like to have my coaches come forward and introduce themselves as much as well as the girls. You gotta get to the microphone. And I do have that power. >> I'm Cassie Townsley. >> Hi, I'm Taylor Lo Fever. >> I'm Riley Leeway. >> I'm Jen Crosen. >> I'm Joel Croen and I'm a senior. >> I'm Sophie Ger. I'm a junior. >> I'm Morgan Hook. I'm a senior. I'm Ally Smith and I'm a senior. >> I'm Chloe Hook and I'm a senior. >> I'm Kelby Dings and I'm a sophomore. >> I'm Ally Panzo and I'm a junior. >> I'm Lily Halry and I'm a senior. >> I'm Ava Rothenberger and I'm
023a junior. >> I'm Molly Huffford and I'm a junior. >> I'm Marissa Harish. I'm a junior. >> I'm Audrey Snograss and I'm a junior. >> I'm Adele Can and I'm a freshman. >> I'm Sophia Ters and I'm a freshman. I'm Bley Robertson and I'm a freshman. >> I'm Haley Tranu and I'm a sophomore. >> I'm Riley Wood and I'm a freshman. >> I'm Carly Kohler and I'm a sophomore. >> I'm Ashlin Gerlock and I'm a sophomore. >> I'm Olivia Roar and I'm a sophomore. >> I'm Bethany McCale and I'm a freshman. >> I'm Cara Harish and I'm a freshman. >> I'm Emily Bjorkman. I'm a freshman. >> I'm Katie Jingleski and I'm a freshman. This is 24 of our 26, so it's almost our full squad. Um, I also want to recognize a few individual
024athletes. Um, Morgan and Khloe Hook. You guys can stand. Um, Morgan and Khloe were first team all league, um, first team all state, and as well as second team all region by the NFHCA. Congrats, girls. Joel Croen, our three sport athlete. um she received um first team all league for the LL and she also was a first team all state member and Kelby Dings. Um she was also first team all league, first team all state and she was just recently named to the USA field hockey U6 national team. Um again thank you for your continued support of PMer field hockey. It is a joy to coach here and the community um really shows their support behind us. So, thank you. >> Well, I I do want to just uh recognize our coaching staff. Uh when
025I look at the group of ladies that are coaching, uh two things come to mind. One, I'm getting old because with the exception of Dr. Crosen who wasn't much before me. Um my time starting here all of them are former students when I was high school principal. Yes. Geez. Uh so you know I feel it now. But uh it it's been a pleasure to see the fact that all of you have come back to a place where you made your mark both as players and then student athletes while you were in school. and the mark that you're making on this on our program that has had a long history of success. So, we appreciate the time and effort that you have given to coaching uh and the special recognition that you received I think speaks
026volumes because that is a selection by their peers. Uh this is other coaches throughout the the the state or or the country even so that are recognizing you and to say that it's a staff a coaching staff speaks volumes. Uh, typically we hear that it's one the head coach or whatever, but to be selected as the staff speaks volumes. Uh, there were times I wondered if we would have to replace all of you because of your antics on the sidelines, but uh, there were times you held it together. Don't look at me like that, Coach Sudter. You know what I'm talking about. No. Uh, we we appreciate your commitment and your enthusiasm. Sometimes we need, but uh, we appreciate what you're doing. And then to ladies that are members of this team, uh you know,
027it was certainly a pleasure to watch you play. Uh the thing that still don't understand the sport, so I'm not even going to try to talk about field hockey in itself. Uh cuz you blow the whistle and makes no sense. Um but to see your passion, your determination, and the and the heart that you played with, uh that is that's hard to replicate. And I think that's an important aspect that an important part of why as a program uh the Pemman field hockey program has been so successful and it was really uh a a great way to great thing to watch um you know for for us as as as administrator supporters of you teachers the community to see your determination and to see the things that you would do. I did tell Mr. Tacos
028that I I really hesitated on going to the state semi-final because it was cold as anything. But I knew if I didn't show up, I was afraid of some of you coming after me. So, I did bear the bear the cold and made it there. Although Mr. Her had quite the outfit on. He topped everybody that night. So, uh heartbreaker, but I will say this, uh through the tears, the disappointment, the way you handled that disappointment is also a reason to be commended as well. So, uh, it's hard, uh, but we appreciate all of your efforts that, and we know it doesn't just happen in August to November. It happens all the time. So, we appreciate all the hard work and the examples that you are, not only for those in this room, but for
029those who will come, but then also for the other people who walk the halls of Pen Manor, that this is what it means. This is how you can be successful by doing the things that you all do. So, appreciate that. We did want to spend some time tonight recognizing you all. I think all of us would say that uh you know we're very proud and when Mr. Tossi asked about spending the little bit of extra money to live stream those games, it was the easiest decision I've had to make uh in my time. So, we we're very excited to watch you uh and thank you for giving us that pride, that moment uh where our community rallied around one focal point, and that focal point was you all as you made your run through uh
030the playoffs and and really the season. So, thank you very much ladies. Thank you for your hard work uh both in the classroom, in the hallways, with your peers, and then also on the field. So, congratulations to all of you. Uh before you all leave our seniors, where are you heading next year? Joel, >> I'm going to Westchester >> to >> play >> and >> I study bio to go. >> Is that all? >> And Joel, I mean, I hope you heard that. She's a three sport athlete. She's a member of our basketball team right now and then plays field or plays lacrosse in the spring. So very rare. very even more rare today. Uh Miss Miss Miss Hook >> app state Appalachian State to study >> undecided. >> Okay. Smith >> to see Oh,
031nice. And who else we're missing? And you are doing what? >> Um, my name is Lily and I'm going to Penn State Harris to play field hockey and study program. >> Great. Fantastic. Is that everybody? That all were seniors? Great. Again, coaches, coach Sudter, congratulations. Uh, and ladies, the congratulations and thank you. Before before you go, and I'm sorry to interrupt, um I want to share a very quick story about one of our board members here this evening and and that's Mr. Herr. Mr. her sent me a text on Tuesday or Thursday, November 13th at exactly 11:43 a.m. unsolicited and it said this. >> You're reading this. >> Who edited it? >> I'm sure you heard what happened to our field hockey team. I think about nothing else. It was so wrong. At 11:44, I
032responded back. But my response is not important. What is important is that Mr. Her wrote me back at 157 p.m. a text message that took me 6 and 12 minutes to read. >> And we can leave it at that. >> And we'll leave it at that. I won't comment on what he attributed the words out of coach Sudter's mouth, but what I will say is that for a short period of time, you captivated the heart and soul of this community and the work that you did. All of you. And I wasn't there, so I won't speak to the call, but I got a very good description of what it was, what happened, what the rule was, why it was wrong, and why this ref should see the field again. It was the most beautiful thing
033that I have ever read. A person who was so invested and a and a team and a group that I could ever have seen with my own eyes. I have saved that message. I talk about it every so often. And that's the kind of inspiration that people strive to do to somebody and you manage to do it to an entire community. Take that as the start of all things special that you will do as graduates of Pen Manor High School. as alumni of Penmanor High School. Thank you for spending just a few minutes of your time and thank you for sharing just a few years of your lives with each of us as you go forward and be successful. And Mr. Her, I will not read the entire 6 and a half minute text, but
034it took every bit of that twohour gap for him to write that. But I will say that not not every senior's uh high school career ends with a crack in the back of the net. >> So um before pardon me Miss Long would like to meet the entire team outside and get a a picture in your fantastic garb. >> Love it. Thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Again, thank you for the opportunity to be able to come here and speak. Um, and again to be able to promote and brag about our student athletes. I think again, they do so many great and special things. And when you hear about some of the academic side as well, it's really awesome. I do want to give one little quick plug about we have coming up
035in two weeks our national girls and women's and sports day event that we do at the high school. We started this two years ago with coach shooter and I um two years ago we had 25 student athletes sign up students sign up for this as of this morning um and was still two weeks of registration. We're up over 125 uh young girls signing up to come to the high school to learn about our sports program. So it's a really cool program. something we're really excited about. So again, thank you for the opportunity to, you know, be leader of this athletic program here. It's something I definitely appreciate. >> Thank you, Mr. Tossy. Appreciate your your work that you're doing with our coaches and athletes and obviously uh we're uh moving through our our winter season
036now. So we'll look forward to having Mr. TSI back uh in the spring sometime once winter wraps up. But thank you for your work and the hours that you put in to to make our athletic program successful. Thanks for being here tonight. >> Thank you, >> Mr. For. How do you follow that? >> When we put together these, >> I need to be more influential and strategic in in in that. >> Dr. Gale just presents the agendas as you know and that's what he does to you >> because the other part of it is I'm sure that the team would really like be interested in his presentation if they didn't have to go get their picture taken. >> Exactly. >> Could be. >> Exactly. Next time we'll put budget in front of >> in front
037of >> recommendation. Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. Well, this evening we're going to take a look. Grab the we're going to take a look as we have uh in the last number of years I've been here. And I think Mr. Johnson put this together. Um and I think it it's helpful. Uh we've been through two quarters of the year. Um it's a great time to take a step back and sort of say, okay, where where are we at um with the end of December and how does that compare to the previous year's end of December? And so we'll look at that on both the expense and the revenue side. So part of this really starts the development of next year's budget because it gives us a groundwork of hey are we okay in this year and
038how does that then apply to be able to meet the mission of the of Pen Manor. So big picture um in 2526 uh we have a revenue uh budget of about $14.5 million. We have an expenditure budget of 15.3 million and you remember we the difference there is some contingency that we have budgeted but don't necessarily have revenues to match. Um as we have historically seen uh because we are funded uh mostly by property tax and our tax base um has a very strong habit of paying at the end of August. Um the majority of our revenues come in early in the year and our expenditures are pretty consistent throughout the year. So you'll see that we're just over 73.8 million of revenue in at the end of December and about 45.7 million in expenditures.
039So we'll take a look uh we'll take a look at the comparison. Um, a couple things that we'll see. Uh, right now, spending is running slightly below last year's pace. Uh, revenues are also running over last year under last year's pace. And, uh, a lot of that we'll talk about later is really the impact of the federal and state shutdowns. We still are behind uh, with with some of those revenues through the end of December. So uh high level and for the board and for the public there are at the bottom uh there's a more detailed explanation but I tried to just take a look at the high level points. First thing we start to look at is the revenue side. Um one of the things that that is uh I think encouraging an economic
040indicator is intim taxes are up this year. Um they're above actually at this point they're above where the final was the previous year. Um and so we are like and at this point we're also above budget so and we're halfway through the year. Uh I think a lot of that you're seeing as properties are getting subdivided as people are doing improvements to their houses uh those type things is that improvement as you close a permit out that's when the the assessment changes and there's interrum. So that's a very positive indicator. The other positive indicator that we really saw a downward trend the last few years is on the transfer and delinquent taxes. Um we are up um we have about a 63% increase there and are likely to exceed this year's budget in those categories.
041Um transfers obviously deal with the sale. Um a lot of the delinquencies are also tied to those sales. So those two come pretty closely. Um because if a property sold that was in delinquent, it then comes to to closure. So um it's good to see that. One of the ones we expected uh was interest earnings have dropped. Uh if you think about it when when you pass the budget uh last May and June, no one really knew where the Fed was going. There was a lot of hey, it's coming down, it's coming down. Um it has not interest rates have not dropped as much overnight on the overnights uh through the Fed as I think a lot of people anticipated. Uh so we are lower than last year at this point but I still expect
042us to exceed the budget area in this category and obviously we'll watch that as we move into 2627 you know how much more do we need to drop or are we okay there state funding um it's curious right even though the budget was approved uh we are still way behind uh with regard to our state funding uh last year when the ready tolearn was approved uh we got that $2.7 million in October. We have yet to see any of those funds this year. Um so that obviously causes the the revenues to be off there. And uh federal funding uh we I think the grant some of the grant stuff uh just got closed like within the last month. Um through that delay everything got held up. uh we will receive the federal funding that is
043in the budget that we anticipated, but it's just delay in that processing. So, normally that's a later in the year type receipt as you look at the numbers on the sheet. Uh but we're much behind where we would normally be there. Any questions on revenues expense comparison? So, a couple things that are up there. Um and we break out and try to group some categories. Uh so the special services one of the things there's an increase there if you remember uh Miss Galen has talked uh we had a speech teacher that was out that we were not able to find a long-term sub for so we had some contracted services. So the that's outside of the salary area falls into this area then and then we've continued some of those speech services because of case
044loads that have gone up through this year and so that's going to be above budget. I hesitate on the next one. Um, operations and maintenance is actually down. Okay. I windstorm, who knows what, but at this point we're looking good. Um, and and I think that we have made some adjustments to the budget the last few years. Um, but I and I I think at this point we're we're much more on track to be there even with the uh inflationary pressures and the escalating energy costs. I'm sure all of you are seeing your electric bill or where your fuel bills are are quite up from last year. Um, tuition and that this category groups the tuition to outside schools, the IU, the CTC, we are higher. We've talked about at previous meetings. This is really
045driven by not only the cost at the IU, but the growing enrollment uh that's occurred at the IER above what's budgeted. Health care, for those of you that are new, um we are self-funded on our healthcare. And so we pay every dollar up to uh $250,000 from $250,000 to $450,000. We have a pool that's mostly the IU, but there's some outside schools. And then over $450,000, we have a uh a purchased program. And so, uh, we track it. I I get the invoices every week. Um, and so right now, the first six months have been pretty consistent. Um, and you know, at this point, we're under where we were last year. um which turned out final the final from 20 uh 425 was actually lower than 2324. So we'll watch that and hope that that
046continues. Um grants are down um as a percentage of the budget but but we a lot of this is being impacted by we aren't spending the grant money because the state and federal funds that are allocated for those. So, um, some of those grants go to cover staff. Once the grant is approved, then we'll take that, uh, cost and we'll allocate it back there, but we haven't allocated it back because the grant hasn't been approved yet. So, I think we're on track there, even though it looks like from an expense side that we're under spending. That makes sense. >> Any questions on the expense comparison? Yeah, I was just curious the healthare the school districts that are outside of our IU, how did they come on board and is there an effort to increase that
047number? >> There there is um I think uh one of the things and and you know I'm sure Dr. Gale has shared in the past uh we are extremely fortunate in Lancaster 11 and IU. Um there has been a strong history of cooperation of working together. Not all the IUs have healthcare programs and other programs that we participate in. And so um one of the big things we see as people are coming in some of them are leaving fully funded plans to come into a self-funded plan. um and you manage the risk, but at the same time, you're not paying an insurance company to manage the risk for you. And so that's we're seeing that. A couple others have come in because business managers have left the IU and gone to a neighboring outside of
048the area district and said, "Hey, this really worked. Can we come back in?" So, we're seeing a lot of that. >> So, how do you decide whether or not a district can be a part of the the pool? >> On the health insurance side, it's pretty straightforward. It's all based upon your number of employees as to how the rates and things work. Um, and so there's that's pretty clear. They come in they have different standards depending upon how many how many lives you're covering. >> So would you reject a district I guess is my >> not on the healthcare side. There have been sometimes on the property and casualty side. Um, right. So there we get insured, right? We pull together but we buy an insurance coverage. And if you had a district that had
049significant losses in the past that would then hurt the pool. Okay. Then we have rejected but not on the healthcare side. >> So you vote as a as a group the the CFOs. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Great question. >> So just a couple things to to remind you as we're going through this process. Uh really at this point the next uh two weeks uh is going to be pretty crucial. We'll start the governor will make uh his budget address that first week in February. That's really when we'll start to see and we'll talk later and we'll talk on the retreat on Saturday about some of those big unknowns and until he really starts the ball rolling, Harrisburg doesn't really do too much to to talk about where they're going next. So, he'll do that.
050Uh we have board discussions then coming up in April and and February. Um, and just as a reminder for everybody, there's some very specific requirements. Uh, the board has to approve a proposed final budget. It has to happen 30 days before the final budget. Uh, so our our board meetings do line up this year again where the second meeting in May and the second meeting in June have more than 30 days between them. So that works. Sometimes we have to adjust that. Um, and so that's where things are at. Questions? Anything for Mr. Fory? >> Yes. >> I was just curious, are we at full complement with U staff? Like are we are we short any uh positions or anything? >> We have some postings that are up there right now. I think from a
051from an from an academic staff, we're fully staffed. >> Professional staff. Yeah, we're fully at this point. >> We uh I think we have most of what's out there right now is some part-time positions. So, for instance, we have two part-time custodians, which that's been a harder fill. There's a couple aids that are out there. I think there might be a secretary um and maybe a food service. So, we're we're in a pretty good spot, >> which is good, too, because when you look at where salaries at, you know, we're in a good spot and and following the budget, not oh well, half of it's not filled, that's why we're under. So, you know. >> Yeah. I was just curious like with the healthcare and stuff like I didn't know if that had any impact
052or not like less employees or I just >> no the the challenge with the health care is is that it really and many times to no fault of the employee things happen on the health side and so it it really is a handful of employees that start to hit that 250. Um, >> anything else for Mr. Fory? >> If not, we'll segue right into the Lancaster County CTC budget proposal. >> So, I'll just continue on as Mr. Beaks is learning more and more about the CTC. If that's okay with you, Mr. Beaks, >> please do. Thank you. >> Okay, so you have the proposal. It's linked in here. Um, a couple things that I I wanted to highlight and the first one's on page two. Um, I think the CTC did a nice job and
053they talk about it. Some uh increased funding from the state as well as some grants have allowed them to offset their cost growth so that the overall impact to the districts is about a third of a percent. So, that's a good thing. Um the other thing that they're doing is they uh and we'll see later they refinance some bonds and they're using a portion of those savings to invest for future projects. One of the things that has always been a challenge for the CTC is they don't necessarily have a fund balance and a process to put money aside for projects. And so I think they're they're essentially staying within the budget of what we thought we were going to have to pay on the debt and using that then to be a feeder for for
054some future things. So I think that's that's well done. Um if you'll turn then to page six. One of the things that's uh that the CTC has followed for many years uh they look at what the average daily membership is from each district. And so they look at a three-year uh average and and what they do then is they use that to determine what our cost will be for the following year. Um the nice part of it is is that you will approve this budget, I'll have the number into my budget and they know that by using that rolling average, uh even if we have more students next year than they anticipated, it's going to work itself out over the next three years. Now, one of the things you'll notice here is that our enrollment
055in this current year is is down quite a bit from the previous year. And what that did is that actually dropped our portion of the operating costs. Um that drop to the operating costs uh is going to be about a $20,000 reduction. We'll see that on the next page. Um but you do see that we we uh have 12.75% of the population. Um there the other thing that you'll see is um oh we'll talk about that in the next page. So turn to page seven is where you see the general operating two things that are on this page that are important. The first column talks about market value. And so what they do is that it's a market value. It's it's a statistic that comes from the state. They use that percentage of market value
056to decide how much of the bonds we owe. And so if you are a district that has a large market value and maybe sends very little students, you're going to pay for the bonds but not pay as much for the general operating. Right? So you can see that we're um you know probably about the middle of the market value. uh but we are the highest from the enrolled student. So if you go through there, you see at the uh at the end um we're budgeted to spend about $2.2 million in operating costs next year, which is about $20,000 less than the current year. And that's all driven by the enrollment average that's out there. You take a poke a look at page eight, that talks about the bonds, that's the payment. So, we were due
057to make about $100,000 in payments next year, but as I mentioned on page nine, it shows you um the refinancing had some impact. Uh they're going to send 25% of that savings back to us. They're going to hold on to 75% of that savings to help them for future projects. And so, it does result in a small reduction to our bond portion of the payment. So CTC annually has bond payment and then the general operating and obviously at 84,000 for the bond payment and 2.2 million for the general operating uh quite quite different on the two of those. And the last thing I I just wanted to highlight, um, as I mentioned on page 10, it shows you that although expenses went up by 4.7% uh, yearover-year, you can see that they uh, received about
058an extra million dollar in secondary vocational ed subsidies and they received about $225,000 in additional grants. And so the combination of those two allowed them to really absorb that 4.7 without passing it on to our tuition costs. Questions >> is down. Is there a reason that our enrollment is lower? >> The majority of it is caused by the difference in class size. So, we still have a large percentage of our students that are seniors going to the CTC. It's just that this year's senior class is smaller than the previous senior class. So, percentage-wise, we're about the same, probably about 25% of our students go 20 25%. But it's just the numbers. >> Okay. >> So, it it's it's not an area of concern. believe me, we still have a lot of interest in the CTC.
059We have a lot of students that attend and do very well there. Uh but it's just the size of our class, our senior class. Now, I will say this, um and I know Mr. Beaks is part of this, the CTC is really really wrestling with their enrollment and it's a good wrestle because they have an overenrollment. I think early uh early indications in terms of applications for next year there had received about 2400 applications their total capacity is around 1,700. So that already means that there are going to be some students who applied that are not able to attend just because of sheer numbers and that's if every program was full filled to capacity. So and that's also an indication as Mr. Fory uh mentioned and and uh I'm sure Dr. Forton is well aware
060of this. CTE career technology education programs have received a a bump in financing from state and from other grants that they are well deserving of. So uh as you as we know that that's an area of demand in many different areas. So, uh, it's good to see that the the Nister County Career and Technology Center has been working very hard to secure some of that funding from other or from grants and from or outside organizations to help um because as Mr. Beaks will soon learn, there's a lot of work that needs to happen at the CTC for programs, for facilities. uh and it's not easy decisions to make uh because there is a great expense for the programs um and the buildings and the capacity uh is at a high is at a high right
061now. So it's why as Mr. Forier and I were looking at this uh it was great to see that the CTC is able to operate at at a cost to districts at a flat fund uh from last year to this year but seeing that the budget is increasing. So, uh, they're doing a good job. >> So, Dr. Fitton, there is a recommendation to place this on the February 2nd agenda for particularly for our new board members. And we will remind you, Mr. Rhodess will remind you on February. Uh, this is a little different thing. There's a group vote, but then you also individually fill out papers. So, she'll have a paper for you that night. Please make sure that you sign it and give it back to her before you leave so she doesn't have
062to chase you down. So, it's a group vote as well as an individual vote uh for the budget in weeks. >> And she will chase you down. So, uh this this looks like a very very responsible budget. Um and as you said, Dr. a good problem to have, but a challenging problem to have that 700 students will not get the type of education that they're looking for. However, it's not a problem you can readily solve because by the time that you could build a facility or purchase the equipment or, you know, so on and so forth, those students are gone. And unfortunately that's millions of dollars that we are spending that might turn. I remember the days when I worked there where enrollment was not as robust as it was now and it was you
063know what do we do to keep programs going and so on and so forth. And so now we have the opposite issue and and that's the challenge with career and technical education. it's just not as nimble as it could be or or should be um to do. So anyways, I will entertain a motion if there are no more questions or comments to place this on the board voting agenda for February 2nd. So moved. >> Thank you, Miss Hope. >> Second. >> Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Beaks. Any further comment or question? All those in favor? >> Eight affirmative votes. Mrs. Napiger. >> Yeah. >> Nine affirmative votes. >> And item four renewal of our conversation from last time. So, just wanted to circle back to uh the conversation that we were having last time as
064part of our my goal update uh regarding the classrooms that the IU is currently running and what do we do? Uh I think you know the mission statement as we talk about it is really our obligation to educate all students who live in the district in the Penman district and we do that through our programs in our 10 schools but then also through entities that we contract with uh have long-standing partnerships with uh and one of those partnerships is certainly the IU IU13 and we also have some other partnerships with other school other schools uh some of them smaller programs uh that deliver an education to students who we do not have a program for and that meets their needs. And these relationships are dynamic. And when I say dynamic like they're fantastic, but also
065they're everchanging too. And uh just like our students are dynamic and their needs change, so do the programs that we have to work with. And that's the nature of the program that we look at with the IU. Uh the IU operates many different facets. Uh we heard just a little bit about one aspect through the IU is the healthcare. Uh we also have many different programs through uh that help with our professional development. Uh there we call it job alike meetings where people of same title, same level position, same subject area meet. There's professional development. But then there is that other side of the IU in terms of providing services to our students and those programs that the IU runs. Depending on where a district is, they support that district or the district runs those
066programs on their own. And that's kind of where we are at this point. Uh you know, sometimes a district does not have a large enough number of students to warrant running a program. So we partner with the IU. we might not have space, we might not have resources, we might not have the professionals to to do that. And then there's other times when our students indicate the number of students indicate that we should run that program. And this eb and flow between the IU is quite natural. Uh and it's really how the structure was established through state code and then also through how the the IU was set up. So it's it's a dynamic relationship that goes back and forth. And as we talked about the last time at our last meeting, uh the district,
067as we've been talking about budget for next year, is looking to bring back two of our seven autistic support classrooms that currently function in the IU and or in the district that the IU is running for our students. And two of those would be at the elementary level where we're looking to have those students be part of uh our school district. The teachers would be part of our school district and then our professional staff. And then we would still continue to cooperate and run IU classrooms in the other programs and then also still have student some of our students attend IU programs at other places. As we talked about last time, some of this is based off of uh of fees of the costs that we do have and that's partly due to the number
068of students that we're providing services to, but then also the cost to educate students at different programs. And as you can see, our budget, our actual and what we've been paying out to cyber charter has changed because of the student services of what we've been looking at has been growing. And I me as I mentioned we have seven IU classrooms that are housed in our schools and all of these programs with the exception of the two at the secondary have our have pen manner students and it's an interesting dynamic that happens within those school within those programs even though they are part of our school. They're in our schools the IU has a very clear way of running their programs. So, as we talk about those students being in their school in our schools, they
069are in our school, but they're not part of the greater school. And that goes from the staff that works there, the professionals that uh service the students that are IU employees, and then additional resources that they receive outside of our district. As we would bring those classrooms back into the into our district, that would change. Our principles would oversee them. We would have district personnel working with the students and they would the students would be incorporated into some of our specialist class uh some of the elective classes and receiving services through district people. One of the factors that we did look at is from a cost standpoint and a question was raised at the last time what does that look like for our autistic support students? So we do receive reports back from the IU
070which does uh disagregate our cost by student for the level of program or what the program is that they are needing the services through and the number of students that is based on ADM. So our average daily membership so 12.66 means that there's there was at least one student maybe several students who were attending for or registered for part of the year. average daily membership is not or they in school that day. It's their enrollment in the program. So it's not not based off of attendance, it's enrollment. And as you can see across the top line going from 19 school year to this school year, the number of students who are receiving autistic support through the IU has gone from 12.66 ADMs to 67 this year. So that number of students has increased. As again
071we start off with the e year the IU gives us an estimate of what that cost will be per student but because of certain factors meaning the eb and flow of students the the amount of time that they spend the IU has to run that program their costs can change drastically because of the number of professionals in that classroom the number of support staff that's in that classroom or andor any other services that they would need to have those have for those students in that program. So that's why we get an estimate at the beginning of the year and then we also have a reconciliation at the end of the year which is our actual per student. And as you can see not only has the number of students based off of our ADM increased
072over the year but also our total cost. So really as we look at this uh this is a concept that has been increasing and something that uh you know over the years it probably would have behooved us to do this actually much earlier. So that's the cost. I think that was a a question that several of you had last time based off of the students like what will that cost be and these are these these are students that we are servicing only through the IU uh and receiving those autistic supports autistic support by bringing those classrooms back into the district we have the opportunity to service those students that are in the IU classrooms but then also additionally provide services to students that are with a diagnosis of autism that are being served in our
073district and possibly even other places as well. Another question that did come up is as we look at how will we do this in terms of staffing uh when we talk about positions that we would need uh we do have the teachers and again as we would bring back those classrooms the right of first refusal goes to the current IU teacher. So we would say to those teachers, we are looking to bring back those those classroom. Would you like to be part of Pen Manor as a Pen Manor district staff? They could be or they could not be. And then we would hire that person or then open those positions. We talked about speech therapist working with the autistic students, but then also we know our autist our speech uh numbers have increased and we
074do need to look at that position. the BCBA and consultant. I'm going to ask Miss Galen uh this is her specialty. So ask her to really describe the difference between those two positions and what their function what their role would be. >> So BCBA is a board certified behavior analysis. Um and this individual would um provide the behavioral component to the classroom. So they would um support the classroom and uh the students the teacher uh the pareducators in um supporting the students with their behavior. Um they would work with uh formulating plans. Uh they would analyze the behavior. Uh they would support parents also uh with student behavior. Uh they can support uh behavior on buses also. uh this individual would also uh provide uh support at times of crisis or uh when there would
075be extreme behaviors in the classroom. Um the BCBA would also be our individual that we would look to to provide training to not only the classroom staff but the school staff um for how to um support the students when they uh would be working throughout the building um when they would be working um with you know in different classroom settings, recess, uh cafeteria. Um so the BCBA would be integral in supporting not only um the teacher uh the classroom staff uh the students the principal truly just supporting the students and the uh staff in the behavior. um that that would be the BCBA's function. As far as the consultant, the consultant uh would work w with the pretty much the rest of the classroom functions. So the consultant would support the teacher in how the
076classroom is structured. uh the consultant would also support the teacher with the ABA principles. Um ABA is the um how we look at the social emotional uh structure of um uh the principles of um breaking down how autistic support students um are able to function and uh communicate their wants and needs. And uh the consultant would be our specialist in working with those principles. They would um also be working with a teacher in um gathering baseline data with the verbal behavior program. um our consult wouldn't be our trainer in um not only the programming but also our um safety care um and that would be the uh QBS programming. This would be what we would be using to support our students behaviorally. Um so this would be uh a component where the BCBA and the
077consultant would work together. Um the consultant would also support the staff um throughout the building, training them in different ways to um support not only the students but also um the building in helping to include our students. um in the because if you think about this the the we want to make sure that um all of our students and uh are being included and being supported in this new environment. Um and the consultant will work with not only the principles but the staff, they would work with the cafeteria um staff. They would work with um custodians. So you want to look at the consultant as being that liaison um from the uh classroom staff to the building. Um I think that >> clear as mud, right? >> Long. >> I had the same look on
078my face when I first asked Miss Gen. And what I broke it down to was the behavioral the BCBA is kind of the analyst. They look at and see what is happening in the classroom. kind of break it down to as to what could be the reasons that a student is behaving one way or another. What what needs to happen? The analyst, the consultant is kind of like the coach. They're coming alongside of the teacher and saying, "Hey, when this happens, you need to do this. When this is happening, you need." So, they're feeding to get they're they're coming together. They're gaining information from each other. Correct. And then they're working with the teacher, >> the par educators in the classroom, and then the school as a whole. the one is the behavioral side, the
079other is the more um structural side, but the two are really integral in bringing both pieces together. Um and then supporting not just that classroom, but then also the building >> and those two positions. While we were looking to add those for the two classrooms we would bring back in the future when we would be bringing back additional classrooms, the BCBA and consultant would be working with those additional classrooms in other places. >> And that would be my question. So typically in an IU setting would there be one BCBA that would accommodate only two classrooms and a consultant that would accommodate only two classrooms? >> No, typically they support >> multiple classrooms, >> right? So I guess my question is there any way initially to be able to use them in other classrooms simultaneously? I
080I guess what I'm saying is that's a lot of money for just two classrooms unless we can save it otherwise. >> Well, I think initially we're bringing new staff in, so there's going to be a lot of training involved in with it. Um so, and that that's going to be the focus initially. Um, and the other piece is it's going to not only be the new staff in that classroom, but it's also going to be the building. So, I think that's that has to be the focus. Could the potential be to support outside of that? Absolutely. But I think the focus for the success of the staff in that those classrooms and then in that building that's where that focus has to be initially is the potential there absolutely but I think in initially frontloading
081that support is where the energies would be and the assistant director what would the assistant director's primary responsibilities how many hours a week are you looking at at $12,000 salary. We factored this. >> Yeah. So that so right now they're a 205 day employee. >> 210. This would take them to 260. >> So that we'd have another senior leader over the summer when >> then when the paperwork's coming in, >> there'll be hiring. There'll be paperwork. There would be training. Um so >> pieces over the summer. >> Okay. >> There'll be meetings. We're going to have IEP meetings over the summer. So those will be those pieces because that's >> So in other words, the the $12,000 is just a matter of moving from 10 to 12 months. >> Correct. That's exactly >> And that
082involves not only the autistic support, but in special ed in general. So one of the major things that happens during the summertime for our our students who receive services is the transportation, especially when we're looking at transportation to outside programs. So that person would be working with our director of transportation to make sure that that happens straight uh throughout the the course of the summer as programs are >> I do think there's a possibility that there there could be additional supports for the BCBA and the consultant elsewhere. I just know for the startup purpose and ensuring that the the buildings and the classroom have success and feel um supported that that's where the energies would be in the beginning is the possibility that we could um you know send those supports elsewhere and use them
083elsewhere. Absolutely. um because we are looking potentially to um take this farther and then we could look where would you know where would the next um supports be and and start you know branching out but I do my initially that support has to be in that building with those teams so I might not be looking at the oh I'm sorry go ahead >> no >> I might not be looking at the numbers correctly so please if I'm incorrect um we're talking about 16 students and the total cost would be that846 686. That's not actually if I'm doing the math right that's not a cost savings per student >> in year one. Correct. >> In year one. >> But what it does what it does is it provides us with greater control over the program and
084services that that those 16 students will receive. >> Okay. And that and that's that's kind of the dilemma that Miss Galen and her staff are in right now. With our increase in the number of students who need in this case autistic support, but in other areas of support for students, the question always becomes when we have to look outside of the district, will those services be available? And for the most part, the IU has been able to fulfill those services, right? But by bringing them back those two classrooms and hopefully in the future other classrooms we can guarantee that those services will be provided to students penor students within the penman district. >> Okay. >> And it also gives us the shity of the cost right so as I talked about previously this is an
085estimate on what the cost per student is. We don't know till April after the year finishes. >> Yeah. >> Whereas if we have them we know what their salary is. And do they not provide us a monthly estimate? I mean >> they do a semianual >> just okay >> it it part of it you also have to understand there it's a pretty detailed process that they go through to try and get to what's the actual cost of that class. And so it's not like oh we'll just run the spread. They go through they look at all their cost, who they hired, what the >> it do a great job in that explanation, but it's not a simple, >> you know, plus students are coming and going and so you're trying to like where do you
086take those snapshots and how does it look at I I think the other thing that you point out and we talked about it's really that second and potentially third year that the savings the biggest thing in this is the cost it you're locking in the control. You're locking in the cost. I think as Miss Galen explained and and she didn't give herself credit for this evening, she's done this before and so she's taking some of those lessons learned of we might have extra staffing in that first year, but that's how you succeed the following years. And so it's how how do you get that that startup in there? >> Okay. Thank you, >> Mr. So is that a fair question? Oh, it was answered. >> I don't even have to ask. No, no, >> I
087got what I needed. >> Um, how much is the expected savings in year two and year three? Right. And and um the other kind of question for Mr. Fory along those lines is it appears from the data that we were given that the IU's actual cost per student has come in lower than their estimated in four the last five years and in four the seven years we've looked at. So they kind of have a history of I mean they did not beat it last year. Correct. >> And we don't know why. At least I don't. But traditionally it looks like their costs do come in lower. So the cost increase for 2526 may actually be larger than the information that we have on the other slides. But if we could help me with that. >>
088Yeah. So from a conservative approach, what we looked at is if you took three more classes back in a second year, it's a $350,000 conservative savings >> In year two, which then only grows into year three >> and and the metrics on that is because you're going to have the BC, >> correct? >> Right. So like in year two, >> in year two, you would add the three teachers for each of the classrooms. you would probably add another speech just because of the speech needs of this population >> and then you'd probably add a a psych in there to help out, but you wouldn't add another BCBA. You wouldn't add another uh consultant. far. So, from personal experience as a parent, the BCBAS are kind of hard to find and hard to get into the
089classrooms for students, at least in the in this my circumstances. How far can you stretch that BCBA? And can we even find one that will fill this position? >> We'll give it a shot. just keep shaking your head. Right. >> I mean, a a number of things that we have going for us is, as Miss Galen talked about, when you talk about a BCBA across the IU, the number of districts and buildings that they are going to can be overwhelming at times. The opportunity to say, "Hey, I'm going to come to Penn Manor. I'm going to be completely in Pen Manor. Um, I'm not moving to another spot next year. I think that that will be appealing to some of those individuals. >> I think the staffing risk is what I'm most concerned about. How
090do we know we're going to be able like right now it's the IU's it's their problem. >> It's it's their problem, but ultimately it's our problem. >> Still ours >> because that student the student who is not being serviced by the IU is ours. just still are. >> So, they don't always meet their staffing expectations either. >> No. >> And that could be like that could be one of the factors of why their actual cost per student is down. They may not have had all the staffing that was needed. >> You don't you don't know. There's a lot of variables in this. Sure. >> But in the end, if that student lives in Penn Manor, >> we are responsible for providing the free and appropriate education in the least restrictive environment to them. Doesn't matter
091if we're doing it or if we're contracting with another service. Like we have students that are being educated across the state. When a push comes to shove, it's still Pen Manor School District's responsibility. It's why from time to time I can't find D because she's out in Pittsburgh at an IEP meeting. Now that's helped with virtual meetings, but there's times when she has to go to a program and things like that. We are responsible for all of the students if their residence is Pen Manor in the within the Pen Manor School District whether we're providing that with control or we're relying on an outside service >> which is one of those one of the drives for this piece of of local control is and and I think that's Dr. ful and why I I do
092kind of keep smiling and shaking because it's one of those variables that you know yes is it is it kind of scary for for the um staffing yes but at least it's it's it's my scary at least it's here it's not something that I don't I wouldn't have control of that I'm worried about someone else because then I don't know um we know that it's here then and and we're worried about it and we're we're doing something about it. Um and that's that's important that that's that's why I'm you know shaking my head and smiling. >> So So you have had experience doing just this? >> I have. >> Before you came to pen pen manner. >> I have bringing was it just curious was it autistic class? >> It was. Okay. So and you've
093experienced the cost savings? >> I have. the cost savings and and the success with the program both both sides of it. Do do we have any metrics on the amount of times that the IU says we can't service this class and we're scrambling to try and service it because we often times will say things like this happen and I'm not saying that they don't but are we talking once a week, five times a week or five times a month? you know what how often are we realistically is the IU coming back and saying we don't have XYZ you got to deal with it for this time period how often does that do we have any metrics on >> that's >> even a tick mark or even to say hey it happened today >> you know
094just so we get a sense because to me that seems like the crux of why we're we want to pull this in. But if it's only happening a few times, do we you know what what is it we're doing? It it's all dependent upon the student. It is absolutely 100% dependent upon the students that we are servicing because a student might might need a set of services that the IU may not be able to provide and that student could progress or that student could uh diminish, you know, so it it really that's >> can't give it to you. >> So >> because we don't know it because we don't have it because it there there's that eb and flow. I mean we're talking about a student that could progress and not need that service because
095they've you know they're able to go to another a a a different environment, you know, where where FAPE is provided in a different way. Or it might go the other way. the student might might digress and we need to provide another program. >> Mr. Beaks, are you kind of asking for example, here's a classroom, teacher leaves because of a health situation and that teacher can't be hired and replaced. That is that the type of thing you're saying? >> That would be one incident. But one of the one thing that I'm hearing that we want to bring the control back is because there's times where for whatever reason the IU would not be able to service that student. If the IU with their resources, how are we going to be able to do that on a
096consistent basis? How often does that actually happen where the IU says this student has to come back and you have to service them as Penn Manor? How often does that happen that we're you know what is what is that ratio? because that's you know >> well we're broaching a very sensitive topic here >> because it's it's services to students and there's cost associated there's accountability associated and things like that but it happens it happens and it's no fault of anybody >> I'm not saying it is and I I I it's a very sensitive topic right now, Mr. Beaks. And I I need you to just kind of trust us that we've done our homework in this and that we've looked at this because what we're talking about could have significant ramifications outside of what we're
097outside of this room. I >> I'm wondering a little bit about the consultant. Is there any way that um it could be like a contractor or as needed? I mean full-time. Do we need for what 16 kids need a full-time consultant when there's already teachers and things? >> I don't like the term consultant. That sounds different than what you described. You said coach >> sort of sounds like a coach rather than a consultant. >> Um personally, >> coach would coach would serve that role. I mean it's defin it's definitely integral to the function of the classroom um and both classrooms um working like with the everyday um function of the classroom itself with the um collaboration of the the classroom um with the staff of um within the classroom both classrooms rooms. Uh the liaison
098between the classroom and the principal. uh I do not feel that it could be like an as needed or I I will be honest this is that is definitely a role um that I have had in the past and it is it's in integral to the success of of the program um is the the coach or the consultant or um >> okay because we're talking a little bit like maybe the beauty of this is if we do a couple more classrooms in the future, right? And we can we can piggyback on maybe the BCBA, the consultant, I don't know, the speech therapist could do four four class four classrooms instead of two maybe. So, if that's like just kind of half time for the two, then I wonder if we could just try to to
099outsource it and not have another full-time employee until we get more classrooms. I would guess outsourcing is more expensive than an employee. I mean, I might be off base with that, but typically that's what I see in my profession. You know, >> we also have to be mindful that we have a collective bargaining agreement with our association. I would also venture to think that in these positions it's integral that they are familiar and an ongoing basis with the students that we're talking about. So I would think a consultant probably would not be quite so integrated but um so just wondering the BCBA the consultant um in general if they were with the IU how many students do they tend to juggle? I mean, we're talking about this right now for two classrooms, 16 students, but
100what is the standard for what they do there? >> It varies. It varies off of the the needs of the students. >> It does. >> And that's the thing, like we're talking here about multi-dimensional students. They have variety of needs. uh you know when we talk about a a regular ed classroom we probably talk about students with needs like this in an autistic classroom as many students as you need the the the gamut of the spectrum of needs is going to be that for each one. So a consultant could be in a classroom through the IU once a day. It could be there once a month depends on the eb and flow of the classroom. I I can sense a um some hesitation um certainly some questions getting down to some specifics and um I
101want to make sure uh Dr. Gale provided a response um of what he can say but I want to talk about this from my own experience and put it into the context of what we are discussing here. You know um you know certainly when you look at any type of cost savings it appears that year one is just going to be a neutral unless the IU costs come in significantly higher and that's an if we don't know and we won't know until September. So I think in a in a first year we gota you know if if we decide to do something like this we have to have a little faith. The question that Mr. Beaks asked and and Dr. Gail answered with some sensitive information is that you know when you talk about a
102free and appropriate public education that's federal law. You don't get a choice whether you do or don't. You do. You have to. You must. And so to sit here and say that educational institution has failed in providing that fate for parents or there's count on that, you just cannot do that. You can't do that for a multitude of reasons. And and so you know when you say you ever educate every kid in the least restrictive environment, you find a way to make sure and certain that those services are provided. So to answer that question, I get the question, but to answer it in a fair manner is um you just can't, right? If you know it's sort of like here in the sense that you know we have students in a classroom and we bring
103this classroom back, we are legally bound to get the resources in order to do so. uh there is no option otherwise and when you're struggling to find you know uh teaching personnel you know you have to make sure you're doing that. It's sort of like in the nature you can't put an uncertified teacher into a classroom and say that you're giving the education by law that you're supposed to. So, um, you know, as as we sit here and ponder it, we have the opportunity to put this on the February second voting agenda. What I would recommend to uh all of you, my colleagues, is that we do so um put it on that February 2nd agenda recognizing that we have a retreat between now and then that we can continue uh marinate on this a
104little bit um and have further discussion on Saturday which is open to the public and and so on and so forth so that we can make a a dis a decision um on February 2nd. I do uh remind you that Dr. Gail or Pen Manor has to let the IU know that they are taking this classroom back because the IU has to prepare their budgets and their pricing. Um and and we're starting that process in February. Uh we have, you know, our first budget workshop. Um, so if it's not something that we're interested in doing, um, then we have to determine that, you know, either tonight by not putting it on the agenda or, uh, on February 2nd by voting no once it's on the agenda. Why I'm saying put it on the agenda is
105we have no more conversation about it. If we say no, we could still have conversation about it on the 24th and the 2nd and there's still time for the administration to uh gather data. So, I just, you know, food for thought and if there are no more questions or or things of right now, then um I certainly will entertain a motion to put it on the >> I just have I just have a just some thoughts on this. Um you know, I think this particular is look at our mission statement. I mean, this is we're talking >> lost us. I don't know what >> Nikki said. She lost us. Um, >> this is like our district's potentially most vulnerable students. We have a mission statement that we're going to collaboratively help students define and achieve
106their academic and life goals. I Nobody does that better than Pen Manor. I I think we all witness that. Look at our teachers. Look at our staff. They do incredible things with less than most people do all the time on a consistent basis. There's a potential for cost savings. That's great. Sure, there is. Maybe not initially, but Penman Manner people are going to do it better. And we're talking about students. We're not talking about um you know, a turf field or uh you know, something to that effect. I I think it's important to remember we're talking about students who need it's difficult. I I have experience in this area. Um you know, it's it's difficult all around. I think the plan uh um is is a very good plan. I think that it'll benefit the
107students more than anything else. And um yeah, that's just my thoughts on it. >> I agree with everything that you've said, Mr. Lombardo. It is the students. However, we are responsible for the community's tax money. But what I go back on is Miss Galen has had the experience of doing this. And I I kind of think it would be hard to believe that she would as an administration they would want to do this and then put themselves up against a wall like there are all kinds of complications such as the staffing and whatever. So I like the fact that she has had this experience and uh that we are talking progressive cost savings after the initial year or two. So that's what I would be basing a lot of my vote on. We move to
108add it to the agenda >> as long as nobody else has comments. >> We do. So, do we So, Anthony, I want good quality, too. Do we think the IU is not doing well? >> Well, I mean, I have no I I can't speak to that. Obviously, I'm speaking like I'm hearing from Dr. Gail and the people here that know that answer. I'm not saying and they're not saying necessarily they're doing a bad job. I it I I think ultimately it it sounds like it's the appropriate time to bring it back. I think it it just it sounds like it would be better all the way around financially for the students. Um I I personally with what I'm presented with don't see a downside to it. Um could if it's a disaster, which I do
109not think it will be, we could always go back. >> Correct. We can always outsource. Um, >> so can we >> Yes. >> What what what about the employees that are part of the collective bargaining? >> You just >> people we just are hiring >> the eight people the people on page six that we just hired. >> How do you go back? We would either reassign them based off of their certifications to another role. That could be, you know, in a special ed classroom. It could be if they have another certification, it could be in another another program. We've just hired I don't know how many people it was. Eight aids, two teachers. What how many how many employees was it? And if we do this for a year and decide to go backwards, we
110just absorb that into the system. >> At at this point, the PAR educators are are contracted with all of our special ed PAR educators. So, it's really the teachers, right? The speech therapists, we know we already have it, right? If if for some reason I think Mr. Lombardo points it out well. I don't see it, but within a year or two, I think you easily absorb every position that you've hired. >> And let's be honest, if they had to go back, none of them are going to be out of work for long. Those those positions are are gold. Um that wouldn't be that's not the worry that I have. Um, my worry is being able to acquire those positions to be quite honest with you. Um, the worry of if we had to take turn
111this back to the IU and those folks e if they weren't absorbed into us or used in pen manner, would they be out on the street without a job? Not for long at all. maybe in some cases better off paid and that's the struggle that I face where I'm employed every day. I'd love to be able to hire eight pair of educators. Any other comments? So there I would respectfully request a motion for placement on the February 2nd board voting agenda. >> So move. >> Thank you, Miss Wart. A second. >> Second. >> Thank you. Any further comment or question? All those in favor? Five affirmative votes, Mrs. Naviger. >> Six affirmative. >> Those opposed, >> three opposed. >> Thank you. >> And it will be on the agenda for the retreat. Correct. >> February.
112Okay. Yep. >> And yeah, we can it can be a topic of discussion. >> Further discussion. >> Yeah, absolutely. Anything else for the committee of the whole? With that, I will adjourn the committee of the whole. I'll call to order the Tuesday, January 20th, Penmanor School District Board of Directors voting agenda meeting. Would you please join me in a moment of silence and the flag salute? I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Did you read the >> next scheduled meeting of the Pen Manor School Board will be held on Monday, February 2nd, 2026 following the committee of the whole meeting. An executive session was held prior to the committee of the whole
113meeting for the purpose of discussing personnel and a student matter as detailed on the committee of the whole agenda. Mrs. Rhodess, may we have a roll call, please? >> Mr. Beaks, >> here. >> Mr. Her >> here. >> Mrs. Hope >> here. >> Mrs. Kek >> here. >> Mr. Lombardo >> here. >> Mr. Warful >> here. >> Miss Wart >> here. >> Mrs. Napsiger >> here. >> Dr. Fullerton >> here. >> Nine board members present. >> Thank you. Mrs. Rhodess. At each of our board voting agendas agenda meetings, we have uh two opportunities for our citizens to make comments. And we have arrived at that first opportunity for items on the voting agenda. Do we have any citizens that wish to comment? >> What's the score of the game, Mr. Kek? >> There's no score.
114>> Um, may I have a motion to approve the minutes of our January 5th board voting agenda meeting? >> So moved. Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Thank you. Any further comment or question? >> All those in favor? >> Eight affirmative votes. Mrs. Nassiger, sorry, I had to unmute. Nine affirmative votes. >> Our superintendent report. >> Thank you, Dr. Foron. uh as quickly as the year is going, we have reached the midpoint. On Friday, the first semester concluded and today was an inservice day for our teachers to prepare for the second half of the year. Uh tomorrow begins the start of the second semester and here at the high school, uh many of our students are almost like they're starting the school year over with four new classes. Uh so we are we
115are halfway through heading into the into the second semester. I do want to recognize two groups of students uh for their recent accomplishments and recognition at the farm show during the Pennsylvania FFA midwinter convention. We had 18 members of the Manor FFA receive the Keystone FFA degree. Uh this is the highest uh highest award that student can receive when they're in high school and it's the highest number of state degrees that we have had received. Uh, congratulations to Hudson Stewart, Josh Marovich, Jenna Railing, Weston Scherzer, Maline Roar, Abby Harish, Emily Railing, Lydia Nichols, Ryan Brenamman, Nate Fry, Leathan Axe, Emily Burkhart, Grace Keller, Sarah Gurr, Sarah Sahra, and KK Welch, Lexi Echelman, and Chase Vincent. So, those are kind of like our seniors that are moving through the program. And then we also have 15
116students who earn their FFA jacket for the first time, meaning that they are really freshman in the program or firsttime students. And then on the performing arts uh side of things, we had five chorus students who represented Pen Manor at the PMEA District 7 Coral Festival uh that was held uh January 9th and 10th. Uh and that district 7 includes over 70 public and private schools spanning eight different counties. Uh the festival singers were selected by audition back in October and those five that represented Pen Manor were Noah Tulle, Rain Andek, Matthew Palary, Kennedy Failen, and Aiden Whitfield. Now, notably, uh, Noah, Rain, and Matthew will move on and represent Pen Manor at the region, uh, 10 chorus festival to be held at Warwick High School on February 20th and 21st. And two of those
117students, Matthew, as well as um, Matthew and Rain, also uh, were were receiving high recognition. But Matthew clinched the first place spot for his base one voice part. This is the second year in a row that Matthew has placed first for region chorus. He also placed first for the district chorus audition back in October. So he's aiming for the hattrick hoping that he will place first at the all state reition too in February. For those of you who have attended events, Matthew is oftentimes the one who sings the national anthem. And then tomorrow uh I would extend an invitation to all to attend our botchi. Our unified botchi team has a home match or botchi teams and botchi team one is in first place going towards the playoffs and the match is tomorrow at home
118at 4 pm in the auxiliary gym. Very neat opportunity. Might be my new sport as I age. Is is that the retirement plan? >> It's either out or pickle ball because the golf swing's not doing well. >> Gonna just let that go. >> That's all I have, Dr. Foron. We'll end on that note. >> All right. Anything else for Dr. Gail? >> Treasures report for this evening is includes December of 2025. The balance sheet as of December 31st, 2025 shows a total assets of 57,254,785.3. And tonight there are December bills that are awaiting ratification as presented. >> Thank you, Mr. Fory. May I have a motion to pay our bills? >> And a second. >> Second. >> Any further comment or question? All those in favor? >> Eight affirmative votes. Mrs. Naviger. >> Yeah. >>
119Nine affirmative votes. >> We've come to that time where we can review the board meeting agenda. Go to item 2 A and B. Any further comment or question? Okay. Item three, A through C. Any comment or question? And item 4 A through E. Comment or question? All right. Seeing none, we have a motion to approve item 2 A and B. >> So moved. >> Thank you. Second. Second. >> Thank you. Any further comment or question? >> All those in favor? >> Eight affirmative votes. Mrs. Navicker. >> Nine affirmative votes. >> Item three, A through C. >> So move. >> Thank you. Second. >> Second. >> Thank you. Any further comment or question? All those in favor? >> Eight affirmative votes. Mrs. Niger, >> nine. >> And item four, A through E. May I have a
120motion? >> Thank you. A second. >> Second. >> Thank you. Any further comment or question? >> All those in favor? Eight affirmative votes. Mrs. Napiger, >> nine affirmative. >> Excellent. We've reached the second opportunity for citizens to make comments here at our meeting on any type of district business. Do we have any further comment? Anything for the good of the board? A reminder, our retreat is Saturday, 8:30. At your places, you have your uh ethics forms to fill out. Mrs. RH should have put if you are a returning board member last year's form. You can see the date March 2nd. Uh please have that into her at that point. That being said, nothing else for the good of the board. We'll journ tonight's meeting. See you Saturday.