1/5/26 School Board Meeting

001Just go down. Not yet. >> For the next year for everyone to see my >> snap. >> Yeah, that's going to be the welcome screen. >> I'd like to call tonight's meeting of the Pen Manor School Board of Directors Committee of the Whole to order. Pen Manor, the home of the sixtime Super Bowl champion Pittsburgh Steelers. >> EA. >> See, >> Philadelphia fans >> can't, you know, you have to spell out the name of your team because you can't remember what it is and hopefully someone else answers >> or because we know how to spell. We just >> sort of like Penn State we are cuz they can't remember and then everybody else yells. >> Dr. Pen, could we move ahead please? >> No, thank you, Miss Wart. I've got the floor and it was

002an exciting game last night and those of us who like the Steelers are still pumped up about it. So, >> would you like me to go replay? It started out terribly. >> Sorry. What's the [laughter] first thing on the agenda here, please? >> The next scheduled meeting of the Penmanor School Board will be after the Steelers win the AFC Championship game. Um, it'll be on Tuesday, January 20th, 2026 at 7 p.m. in the large group instruction room of Pen Manor High School. An executive session was held prior to the committee of the whole meeting for the purpose of discussing personnel as detailed above. Mrs. Rhodess, roll call, please. >> Sure. Mr. Beaks >> here. >> Mr. Her >> here. >> Mrs. Hope >> here. >> Mrs. Kek, >> here. >> Mr. Lombardo is absent. Mr.

003Warfl >> here. >> Ms. Wart >> here. Mrs. Naviger >> here. Dr. Fullerton >> here. >> Eight board members present. >> I would love to entertain a motion to approve the minutes of our December 1st, committee of the whole minutes. >> So moved. >> Thank you. A second. >> Second. >> Thank you. Any further comment or question? >> So the Steelers started out seven nothing down the next agenda item. All those in favor? >> Eight affirmative votes. >> Board development opportunities and reports. Do we have any board reports? Oh, Miss W, you you have one? >> I do. I do. >> Too bad. Tough. >> But I feel unusual not going after Mr. Stro. I'm I'm used to looking over there and having him give his report first. Anyway, the Lancaster County Academy did meet

004uh Joocc did meet in December and uh the director shared that we had brought in $2,000 for the extra give, which was more than last year when we had 1,700 plus last year we had to pay rental space. So, it was a clear 2,000 which was nice. Uh we are going to have another year of two graduations, one in January and one in June. And at this point there are two Penmanor or at that point there were two Penmanor students that had uh met their credit qualifications. So there could be more and that'll be the last Saturday in uh January. Uh we also got a grant through Fattia Stevens for uh 50 hours of virtual modules that can go towards internships for our students which was which was very exciting for us. And we also

005had our reorganization meeting. Uh Brian Muser from Seno will be our new president. Mike Claire had been our president for several years for Mannheim Central, but due to health issues, he didn't want that responsibility. So we voted him in as vice president. And uh Dr. Ryan acts as uh our superintendent of record. his term will end the end of June, but he has already let us know that he's very much interested in continuing because uh we've been very pleased with his work with the academy and he certainly has a heart for the students. So that's it. >> Thank you, Miss Wart. Any questions for Miss Wart? Any other board reports? Miss Napsinger? >> Sure. Board opportunities. So, our next board breakfast is Tuesday, January 13th at Manor Middle School bright and early at 700 a.m.

006Um, and then, uh, January 24th is our winter retreat. And it looks like a new item, um, or maybe I just didn't notice it because the list is getting shorter, but, um, just make sure your calendars are marked for June 3rd, which is commencement, our favorite night of the year, and probably our most important. >> Yes. Same same time, same location. Yes. [clears throat] >> Okay. Perfect. >> Perfect. So that means we will move to our next item which Dr. Gail, you have an introduction. >> Yeah. Uh tonight it is my privilege to introduce Shelby Spangler. Shelby, why don't you come forward? You can just stand kind of around the podium. You don't have to stand behind it. Uh Shelby has uh started here at the district uh mid December, early December as our next

007uh business manager. [clears throat] We recognize Judy Duke. Excuse me. >> Did you get demoted, Dan? [laughter] >> Uh for for her years of service at our December meeting during the audit, but Shelby is stepping into that position. Uh Shelby joins the district having a variety of backgrounds in private uh businesses in different places throughout the county. Uh we're excited for Shelby to be a part of of what we have going on here and to add her expertise. Uh Shelby does come with a extensive uh CPA [clears throat] background. Uh so her accounting uh was providing us with a great resource. So Dan, anything to mention? here. Also grateful for the board allowing us the overlap that we've had. Judy does finish at the end of this month and it's uh it's given her and

008Shelby a lot of time to work through the many processes that we have in place and and start to to do some mind melding there. It's been nice to have Shelby, not just with the transition between herself and Judy, but also as we begin our transition from one platform, business platform to another. Uh Shel's getting involved in that from ground zero. So for her to be a part of that has been very beneficial. So as I echo what Mr. uh is saying is thank you for giving us this opportunity to have the overlap. Uh it's proving beneficial in many different ways. Shelby, anything? >> I just want to say happy to work here. It's it's a really strong group. Um, and Judy's been great training me and having to overlap. I really appreciate that from

009the board. Um, and I'm just looking forward to uh just getting to know Pen Manor better and contribute here. So, thank you. >> Thank you. >> She did get the she did get the nickel tour from Mr. Fory of all the schools. Uh, spend a little bit of time in there. We haven't asked her to find Martic on her own, but I'm sure at some point she'll have to. But it's been great to have her here. And of course, any new employee that comes into the school district, Shelby got the school germs, so she actually had to miss a couple of days. >> I know. So, I did >> got to build up her immunities that school district uh germ uh be able to handle those things. But it's been great to have Shelby and

010we're pleased to have her. Okay. >> Nothing says rookie year like getting sick. >> That's right. Right. It really Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you so much. >> Welcome. >> Well, thank you, Dr. Gail. And welcome, Shelby. And we would love for if you want to stay, you can stay. If you want to leave, you can leave. If you don't like the Steelers, you're fired. [laughter] >> See, that's how we convert people. Next agenda item. I >> think next December is going to be a little different for you, Dr. Futin. >> You think? >> Well, be careful what you wish for. [laughter] >> Item number one, our financial update. Dr. G. >> No stranger. We probably doesn't need much of an introduction, but uh Mr. Fory and I have had conversations recently with Mr. Phillips and

011Mr. stad felt it was a good time for Ken and Lauren to come and give us an update on where we are as a district with our with our financials as well as some uh possible movements that we have coming up. So, Mr. Stle, >> good evening everyone. It's a pleasure to be here [clears throat] this evening. Um, I know there's a few new faces sitting around the table and congratulations and we'll do our best to uh explain all of these kind of big tiny numbers on these pages as best we can, but please feel free to stop us at any point if you have any questions. Um, Ken and I have had the pleasure for serving the district for a number of years. I've been at this for about 20 and Ken's been at

012it just a few more than I have, but um, we've had the pleasure of serving the district through many construction projects, debt refinancings, etc. So, we're here tonight to give you a bit of an update. Um, usually around this time of year, we come in and give what we like to call sort of a debt state of the union. And tonight, we're here to update kind of where we stand debt-wise, but also to give you an update from some of the um presentations we made over the summer in relation to your capital projects and some upcoming debt refinancing opportunities. So, I'm going to talk a little bit about the numbers and then I'll kick it over to Ken to give a little bit of a credit rating overview and then talk about timing if we

013are in fact ready to move forward with potentially the first borrowing for projects and some debt refinancings. So, in front of you tonight is um a brief presentation. If you've seen us here before, a lot of this will look familiar, but if you haven't um like I said, please feel free to stop if anything isn't making sense or you want any clarifying um answers. Page number two talks a little bit about the district's existing debt indebtedness. And these are all of the principal and interest payments that you make on your four outstanding debt obligations. They are in in name called the series of 2018, the series A of 2019, the series B of 2019, and the series of 2020. And at this point, nearly the entire majority of the debt that you're paying really the

0142018s and the 2019 A was for the the building that we're sitting in right now. You're still paying a little bit from some prior projects, but by and large, the debt service that you are paying is going towards basically the mortgage on this building. And so you can see in the righth hand column what your total annual payments are for debt service. You can also see in some of the footnotes below what the interest rates were on those separate bond issues. All of them outstanding at really attractive interest rates. If you look at that row that's entitled ARB yield, which is short for arbitrage yield, that's the true cost of the funds. It's what's gets reported to the IRS whenever we do a borrowing. And so you can see that those numbers with the highest

015one being at three and a quarter percent and the lowest one being at 1.2%. We were able to take advantage of some really attractive interest rates back when we were financing the high school and then some debt refinancings that we did back in 2020 when interest rates were basically at zero. So, you may say, well, if the if our bonds are outstanding at such low interest rates, how could it be possible that we could in fact exercise a refinancing and save some money? Well, the way that that bonds work is actually there's a there's a line item there called the average coupon, and that's what drives the interest payments that you make. And so while we sold the bonds at a premium when we initially priced them into the marketplace and investors gave you more

016than a h 100red cents on the dollar that bought your interest rate down to what that arbuild is but you're still paying that 5% interest rate for example on 2018 bonds and so because interest rates are lower than that and we are approaching the call dates for several of these transactions means that there may be an opportunity to refinance. You can see highlighted in yellow that the first transaction that we are getting uh that we are approaching to be able to refinance is the series of 2018 bonds. They are callable in September of this year and we can settle a transaction about 90 days no more than or no sooner than 90 days prior to that call date. So we could be settling a transaction to refinance the 2018s on or around the 1st of

017um June of this year. So, we're getting close to a point where we're going to need to be taking some action and uh in a couple pages I'll go over what the estimated refinancing savings are on that particular transaction. And then in addition, as we look forward about one year after that, we've got a the upcoming call dates for the series of 2019A and the series of 2019 Bonds, which as well are currently producing some interest rate savings. And so we'll talk a little bit about what the mechanisms that we will suggest that you put in place in order to give us the most flexibility to be able to refinance those at uh when we get closer to that call date. So that is all of your principal and interest that you make on an

018annual basis for your four outstanding transactions. The next page nets out the subsidy that you receive as a result of going through the plan con process. This is no longer funded by the state, but you do have some reimbursement figures that come um on some of your bonds. And so this is really the the true cost after you kind of net out what the state is kicking in subsidy wise for your bond payments. Anything that we look to in the future will not be subject to any sort of um plan con subsidy coming from the state. There's a moratorium in place. So, we have assumed that all of your future projects you will pay 100% of the debt service for, but you still do receive some um reimbursement from the state for older projects. So,

019kind of a important number to keep in mind here is that your annual run rate for debt service net of that state subsidy is about $8.7 million. Um, if you look towards kind of 2030 through 2038. So, that's kind of the high water mark of where your debt is. And that's those are the numbers that we look to when we start thinking about how do we finance future projects, how do we structure future bond issues. And the fact that you've got debt service freeing up after fiscal year 2038 into 2039 will allow us to kind of build some of the new principle for those projects in after the existing debt retires and we'll get into how that works on the future pages. So that's where we stand currently. District is in excellent position. Ken can

020talk a little bit about that as it relates to rating. But when you have debt that only goes out, you know, less than 20 years, um, that puts you in a really strong position where you don't have debt advertising currently for 30, 40 years like many of your counterparts do throughout the Commonwealth. Next page is a brief history of of the municipal interest rates. As we mentioned previously, we were able to take advantage of some really attractive interest rates over the last eight, nine years. Uh we will probably never see rates as low again as we did back in 2020. It took us COVID to get that low. Um and I certainly hope it that we don't, you know, we don't wish another pandemic in order to get um zero% interest rates. So love pointing

021this out. Wish we could take credit for the fact that we financed those projects when we did, but it was a little bit of luck and u a really good architect, too. So, um, so interest rates currently, last time we were here, they were higher than they are right now. So, the good news is we're moving in the right direction. As you know, the Fed has been cutting interest rates and is forecast to do a few more this year as well. Uh, but the pace of those will be, I would say, slow and steady and will be data dependent. And so the Fed interest rate cuts have not really affected long-term borrowing rates to the extent that they have affected short-term borrowing rates or short-term lending rates. The Fed really only controls the shortest interest

022rates. The overnight lending rate is what they control. So when the Fed cuts interest rates, the biggest impact that it has is to your investable balances. And so I'm sure that the budgets you're building for next year, the interest earnings will be down. um in long-term borrowing rates when we look to the longer part of the curve are lower than they were a year ago, but not by the same magnitude that the Fed has cut rates. So, uh we're getting back into a more normal upward shaping yield curve. For a very long time, we were flat or even inverted. And so, the steepening that we're seeing in the yield curve right now is not all that surprising. But, like we said, our crystal glass uh ball is never fully accurate. So, we like to take

023opportunities as they come. And so we've got an opportunity coming for a debt refinancing. It makes sense to go ahead not try to play the market or time the market. When we get to that call date if there are significant savings, it would be our recommendation to take them. And there may be an opportunity to potentially save a little bit of um cost of issuance by lumping in the first borrowing for your capital projects because you're going to be accessing the market anyway. So, we'll talk a little bit about that timing, but um last thing that kind of macro big picture things that we wanted to talk about is on the next page. Um when we talk about the act one index and where it's been and where it's headed, um we know that the

024projects that you have coming down the pike are significant and will require that you raise your budgetary line item for debt service. And so, we know that you also can't look at that in a vacuum. Um, but the IFO puts out this forecast of where they expect the ACT one index to go. And so we think it's important for you to see figures like this, and I'm sure your business office shares them with you often, but to hear it from us as well, that as you have other budgetary pressures, the importance of planning for major capital projects cannot be underscored. when we see that the the base index for act one is kind of scheduled to or estimated to kind of hang in right around the low 3% number. Uh when we're going to maybe

025need to dedicate a po a certain percentage of that towards just debt service alone, it's important to think about, you know, as you build your budget for this year and the following years, where where does this debt service fit in along with all your other budgetary pressures? So, a little bit of food for thought as we talk about a potential funding plan for the capital projects that you're currently considering. Okay. So, this schedule is updated. Um, last we were here, we were looking at kind of a low range and a high range scenario. Um, from I think 120ome million to nearly maybe 38 million or so. Um, in conversation with your administration, we said, "Listen, let's let's focus on the two immediate projects that that we have a fairly good feel on timing, cost, etc.

026And then let's just call the purple columns future." And it's not your architect's fault that we rounded up. That was that was on Ken and I saying, "You know what? Let's take this up a little bit more to 150 million." I know that number is a little higher than what you've seen for the proposed projects, but uh we think it's important from a planning perspective to sort of we don't know where you know inflation is headed. We don't know where those future projects will be priced in 2031 or 2032 and it's easier to scale back um from a millage standpoint and from a borrowing standpoint than to kind of go the opposite direction. So going left to right um just to give you a little bit of overview on how this schedule works. We start

027as I mentioned earlier we're we're taking a look at kind of your overall debt picture as a whole because we really can't look at things in silos the way the state operates and the way your budget operates. We need to think about all your debt in concert. And so column number two is that net debt column that we reviewed a few pages ago. the existing debt net of state reimbursement that you're paying for all of your debt obligations. What we then do is we layer in over time hypothetical future bond issues to fund a new middle school project. Those are the blue highlighted columns. An Echelon Elementary School project. Those are highlighted in green. And then a future unnamed project to round out whatever you need to do as these projects throughout your district come

028to fruition and as you get potentially new influx of students and you have a better you're better informed on where you need to be headed. That's that future project highlighted in purple. Some important kind of headnotes up at the top of the page there. We've assumed current interest rates plus 50 basis points or 1/ half of 1% for all of these scenarios. Um again, we are kind of right at the 25-year average for interest rates. So, we like to be a little bit conservative, but not um so much so that the numbers are completely blown out of the water by, you know, two full percentage points or something like that added on top. [cough] Excuse me, it's contagious. [laughter] I might have caught that school bug, too. So, the [clears throat] excuse me, the middle

029school project estimates that we've seen are for around 59 million. So, as [snorts] I mentioned before, with the upcoming call date for the 2018 bonds, we think it's prudent to potentially get some seed money for that project because we're going to be in the market anyway doing a debt refinancing if if interest rates hang in there. So that would happen according to this column uh this first column here in June of 2026. If the project proceeds as planned per the construction draw schedule, we'd be getting the balance of that money in February of 2028 in order to allow you to finish out construction for that project. At that point in time, we'd then turn to echelon where we've split that just for hypothetical purposes into two separate issues. We do that often for larger projects

030because we know we need a little bit of seed money going in, but we might not know what the final bids are going to be once we've gotten that seed money. So, we want to make sure that we're borrowing exactly how much we need to for your projects, that we're not over borrowing and paying um extraneous interest expense or underborrowing and having to come back and do maybe a two or three million cleanup issue and having to pay cost of issuance all over again. So, we often kind of trunch borrowings for projects into separate um separate financings to allow sort of right sizing of borrowings to make sure we're borrowing exactly the right amount. Additionally, the other thing we need to think about is where are you able to invest that money at? While you

031have it, after you've borrowed it, it sits in your construction fund and it earns interest. So, in interest rate environments like we had a few years ago where short-term interest rates were really high, we might have borrowed more money up front because you could actually sit on it and maybe earn a little bit of positive arbitrage or money over and above what you were paying in interest expense. So, we want to make sure that in rate environments like we're in now and like we will probably be in the next few years where your borrowing rates are down here, sorry, your investing rates are down here and your borrowing rates are up here. We don't want to be sitting on cash for too long because we're ending up in a what's called a negative arbitrage situation

032where we're paying more than what we're earning. So, we we can guarantee you that the timing and the structure of these bond issues will change over time as we know when bids come in, how much we're going to need to borrow, and then what interest rates are going to be doing at that point in time. But that's where Ken and I like to come back here, update you, give you our new revised recommendations with whatever new information is out there. So I can guarantee you these schedules will change but it's at least a good guideway path forward for how to build your budget for next year and the budgets beyond that. Okay. So Ashelman we have split into two um two separate financings and then that hypothetical future project in 31 and 32 again is

033split into two getting you $150 million of project proceeds over time. And maybe let's hope that they come in well below that and that last financing in 2032 never needs to happen. And now basically you can chop $600,000 off your budgetary line item for debt service. But let's just assume for discussion purposes that 150 million is what you need to borrow for projects. In essence, what we need to do is we need to get from column number two, that $ 8.7 million annual figure for debt service up [snorts] to 15.8 8 million in column number 10. So that's where kind of the biggest change I would say that we've implemented in this study comes is previously we were showing you needing to set aside something like two to two and a half% tax increases just

034for debt service. But we know what we know about the act one index and where it's scheduled to go. And that's maybe a little bit untenable to set that much aside of your of your index for uh debt alone. So what we said is let's take a look at spreading this impact out over a longer period of time. And for discussion purposes, let's just assume a flat 1% tax increase set aside every year. How long does that take? And that's what you can see in column number 11. We know what we put aside for fiscal 2526. assuming a 1% tax increase from now in well the future budget you're planning for 26 27 out through 2034 and then a small increase about half a percent in 2035. That would get you fully funded for the

035study that we're looking at for $150 million at current interest rates plus 50 basis points, half a percent. That gets you fully funded over time. We know that we're a little maybe overfunded. You can see some of those yellow columns on the far right, those yellow highlighted numbers. Your debt serve, you are funded to a level in your budget that is higher than your debt service payments right now. And that is extremely good planning and something we wish um everybody that we work with would undertake because it allows you to be able to even consider something like this, a 1% tax increase to pay for $150 million of projects. A lot of districts aren't in that position, but because you've already sort of frontloaded some of your funding, gotten it into your budget, it allows

036you the benefit of spreading the millage impact out over time, lessening the burden to the taxpayers in any given year, and you can actually more than cover any sort of shortfalls that you'd have during that ramp up phase with the cash that you sort of already have built in. So, it's a really good position to be in. I know that borrowing $150 million is no nothing to laugh at. It's no small task. Um, and it's easy to kind of get lost in the commas. But, um, I think what Ken and I would like to reiterate is that, you know, the excellent planning of this board and prior boards and this administration and prior administration has put you in a position where this is potentially feasible. Um, and if if there are years where things are

037a little bit leaner and it can't be a full 1%, then we'll update the studies to reflect that. But perhaps in in years of of slightly better results, maybe more money coming through from the state, maybe it can be a little more than 1%. And so these numbers will continue to change over time and maybe we're able to shorten that phase in period, [snorts] but it's at least a roadmap to get you started and oriented as you start making some really major decisions about the future of the district. Let me pause there. Are there any questions as it relates to that study? I know it's a big, you know, a lot of big tiny little numbers. So, um, generally making sense, show of thumbs. Um, then we'll save questions for the end. But last thing

038before I turn it over to Ken is just an update on the refinancings. Uh, we did show you this on the 2018 bonds back over the summer, but wanted to give you an update as it currently stands. Um, highlighted there on the right side about halfway down where you see the cash flow savings. If we were to exercise this debt refinancing of the 2018 bonds today, uh, which we're not quite there, we can't settle until June, as you remember, we would save approximately $4.1 million, which is 11.5% of refunded par. Typically, we like to see a minimum industry standard of 2 and a half to 3% of refunded par. So, we are well in advance, well in excess of sort of what the the minimum that we would recommend that you exercise at. Um, and

039that that translates to in that cash flow savings column about $375,000 a year, which will directly offset some of that interest expense from the new borrowings for the capital projects. So, putting these in concert together makes a lot of sense. Uh, getting the first 15 million when we when we go ahead and do this refinancing makes a lot of sense. We're in the market. Your business office is already doing a preliminary official statement going through the credit rating process. Makes a lot of sense to put it together. What we'll then turn our attention to a year later will be on the next page the series of 2019 A and B bonds. And this is an update from the last time we didn't have these numbers in, but thought it important to share with you as

040well. This one has a a lower uh coupon payment on it, so we're not going to be able to squeeze as much savings out of this one. But again, if we could exercise this today in current market rates, we're at about 1.5 million of total savings, which as a percent is about 3 and a.5%. So that one we'll continue to monitor, but again, that call date is not until September of 2027. So the earliest we would be settling that transaction would be June of 2027. But um there's good reason to to have this at least on our radar. Um Ken will talk through that a little bit. But um unless there are any questions on the numbers, I'll turn it over to Ken, let you kind of digest it all and then we can open

041it up for questions. >> Thank you, Lauren. It's a pleasure to be here. Happy New Year. One of the things that let's go back about 10 11 years as is as as you were getting ready for this building and some of you obviously around the table were here then when we were having preliminary meetings on the cost of the high school at that time which was 90ish million today that would probably be about 200 million. Um the board had very good thought and direction to go ahead and get prepared for the future and in 201617 there was a 7% increase in taxes. However, it needed to be done because with act one and you have a certain index that Lauren just reviewed with you, no, the only way the high school could be funded is

042to do what they did in 1617 and then for three straight years after the increase was about 4%. So, we're almost in that same, you know, spot now. Lauren reviewed I think it was page six where last year or last budget year uh you went up 3%. Okay, just for debt service. Congratulations. That just puts you on a advanced path even at you know to get 150 or whatever that number is going to be. And um when you look at the possibility of having maybe the next six, seven years of 1% increases, the only way you can do that is because you had, you know, the forethought to go ahead and do what you did last year. So that study that we just reviewed, that's only a point in time. It's a balance sheet. It's

043going to change. Rates are going to change. Costs are going to change. But it's a map for you, okay, to get ready for what you need to do. So, I want to thank last year's board, this year's board administration for really putting you in a good spot. And when you look at the next slide, next slide, it talks a little bit about the rating process. So, bonds are sold again and bonds just nothing nothing but a mortgage, but they're sold in the capital markets. That's where all the debt in the world really is placed. Um, and you have basically two rating agencies, Moody's and Standard and Pores. And leading into, okay, leading into the high school project and all the work that was done to get the funding in place, you can see some of

044the commentary down in the yellow. In recent years, the district implemented annual tax index increases paired with exceptions to tax above the AWIN index to increase revenue enhance his fund balance to levels we consider to be very strong in preparation for the capital project. You know, when Lauren and I stand up here and we work with, you know, Phil and Dan and we talk about planning for the future, this is what we're talking about. Your your rating is a double A rating, which is very high. Okay? There's only a handful of AAA ratings in the state of Pennsylvania. Most of them are down toward Philadelphia. Okay. Um, a double A rating is one of the highest in the county. And it what it lends itself to is the higher the rating, the lower the interest

045cost on the bonds because the bond purchasers are looking to the name of Pen Manor and they're saying, "Hey, I can read their financials. They're very strong. I can read the planning that they're doing. Very strong. I can look at the rating reports from standard pores or Moody's very strong and all that does is save you literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars, millions of dollars when you're looking at a $150 million project. So, we wanted to include this again. We reviewed this last January, but for some of the newer board members, I think it gives a very good picture. And we can even provide um it's somewhere in the business office, I'm sure. But if you want to see the last rating report, we can definitely, you know, get that get

046that before you. The last slide for tonight is sort of just a timeline. Um, we're here this evening and we suggest we come back in April. We really can't do anything in the markets until we settle sometime after June 1st because as Lauren said, we need to be within three months of the call date of September. So, as long as the markets are currently in the state, you know, 3 months from now that they are today, um we'll be back and we'll what we'll do is we'll put all the legal documents in place. We'll do the legal resolutions which will take care of what we would suggest getting some seed money for, you know, for the future projects. Even though we're not going to finance anything until really probably 28 based on the timeline, you

047need money for engineering and architects and studies. And since we're going to be doing the refundings anyway, okay, we're going to probably lump all those together. So, we're going to put the 18 the 19A 19 Bonds along with 15 million of new money all in one resolution. One, it saves us some money from advertising and legal and so on. So, it makes sense to go ahead and do that. What we would do then is uh be here on the 7th, come back on the 20th where you would have a roll call vote. All debt in Pennsylvania must be roll call vote. We then will go through the rating process, work with the administration on the rating, and then sometime in May or so, have a bond sale, lock in the rates, and then have settlement

048sometime in June. So, that's just again that's just preliminary based on where we stand here tonight. that could, you know, be altered a month or two depending on the market. But with that, it's always a pleasure to be here. Um, you know, this this board and I have 40 years here has Penman's never borrowed money on a frivolous basis. You do it when you need to and that's a credit to, you know, a lot of people sitting around this table over those couple decades. Um, love to answer any questions Lauren and I will right now if there's anything. And uh want to thank Phil and Dan for all the work the last couple months. You know, we don't just show up and talk call them a week before and say, "Hey, let's do this." There's

049a lot of planning that goes on. So, we appreciate their time for that, too. Questions? >> Mr. powerful. >> If we do not refund the bond between June 1st and September, [clears throat] >> what happens to that opportunity? >> That opportunity is available in perpetuity after June 1st. Okay. So um ideally anything past 91 if rates were higher you'd be leaving some savings on the table if you don't do it before 911. >> if rates are lower between >> if rates are lower then you would have achieved more savings. That's correct. >> Right. So, it it is um it is your recommendation that we're prepared to do this >> June 1st or July 1st, sometime in that 90day window. Um, and I just want to repeat this. We'll be borrowing more money than we need

050at the moment to bring cash in for the future projects, >> but we'll be taking the interest rate risk that rates won't go down beyond if we waited to do that. >> Sure. Whenever you do a refinancing, it's just like our home mortgage, right? When when do you pull the trigger? If I have a mortgage at six and rates go to five, do I pull the trigger at five? What's my payback? the exact same thing. We try not to guess the market. Okay? There are times when we come to you over, you know, last couple decades and say, "Hey, we we think we should do this because we think the Fed's going to increase rates." Okay? We had a lot of people prior to the Fed increase of 500 basis points, you know, back in

0512223 take advantage of getting some money early. Okay. But in terms of a refunding, you heard Lauren say that the industry standard is 2 and a half to 3%. If you can capture two, three and a half% of savings, that's great. Right now, we're far exceed that. Same thing as buying a stock when you buy it. So, you make the call. The parameters resolution puts it in place that everything's ready to go. Basically, when you say go, for example, if you said to us, hey, we don't want to do anything until we have savings. It was I think 300 and some thousand a year. We think we should get like 450. That's your call. Okay. We could hold off. If it hits it, we go. If it's 350 and then it goes to 300 or

052250, it's still your call. All right? So, we try not to time the market just like in any other financial decision. >> Yeah. I I guess where my head is, there's no no response needed on this that we're going to be doing this again in 12 months. >> 20 in 27. >> Yeah. 12 months after the September 1st date, we'll have another >> You'd have the opportunity to do the refunding of the of the other two issues. >> Correct. And then the second question is um we've got the double A rating from >> S&P. >> Um when we go from $90 million in funded debt on up to 200 million or 225 million whatever whatever is not advertised by the end of the draw down like how realistic is that we keep that double A

053rating? >> That's a good question. six or seven years from now when we >> Sure. [clears throat] >> That's a real good question. Um, the rating agencies put you in a box. So, right now you're in the double A box. They take a look at all the ratios, debt to income. They take a look at where you are environmentally, take a look at where you are economic growth in the area, all the demographics. As long as you stay in those boxes and your financials are pretty strong. Okay. Again, credit to everything that you're doing around the table. As long as you can still hit the ratios for that box, a double A box, you'll stay there. So based upon you you do this every day and you talk to lots and lots of school districts

054>> and based upon what you know about us >> where our revenues are where they're expected to go if we take on an additional hund00 million of funded debt will we stay double A how likely is that? >> Um that's why Lauren's going to be here after I retire. Um, [laughter] no, I do think as long as you retain financial strength, okay, that currently you are in that double A box, you will retain the rating. Now you start spending fund balance, you start drawing down reserves, you fail to prepare [clears throat] for the next 150, whatever that number is going to be, that will damage you. Okay, Lauren, bail me out here. Go ahead. >> The other point I'll make is um the last time we went through the credit rating process was kind of

055in the midst of the high school project, >> right? >> 2019 is the last full-blown credit rating that we have. So over the last six years, you've also paid down a pretty significant amount of debt versus what they would have evaluated at at the time. In addition, your budget has grown probably pretty significantly over those six years as well. So um we're, you know, we don't sit in the in the room when they make the credit rating decision, but all else being equal, I I don't think especially because we're not looking at 125 to 150 million in one fell swoop. It is layered in over time. If you were looking at doing this project again now, there might be a little bit of of pressure on your rating because you need to be getting the

056money over such a short period of time. But this is a slow phase in over time. If your enrollments are growing, if you are, I'll say it, raising taxes to the level that you need to to keep up with your expenses. I know that's easy for us to say because we don't sit in your seats, but if keeping your credit rating is important, then [clears throat] that's probably the big the single biggest factor that you as a board have control of is is what your bottom line looks like year-over-year. >> And her history has been doublea. >> Yes, it's been strong. >> You know, we've gone we've gone actually from the A status a long long [snorts] time ago because the reserves have been very strong. And that's what they look at. Cash is king.

057>> Ever since COVID, cash is king. And I hate to say it, but they put you in a box and you're in the double A category. So, as long as we retain the ratios that are necessary for that category, you'll be okay. And they also love to see planning. We send these plans to them, okay? because their first question to Dan is going to be how you going to pay for this. Well, we already did 3%. We, you know, getting ready for the next projects and we have a plan to do it. They love stuff like that. Okay? They they grade you on financial strength. They grade you on management. All right? So, they take a look at how are we preparing for the future. And I'm proud to say that Pen Matter has done

058a very [clears throat] good job of preparing for the future. >> They also know that we'll double your taxes. Correct, Mr. Phillips. >> Right. Yeah. >> But Mr. Warfl, those are all great questions. Market questions, rate, you know, when you do the refunding. If if we had that shiny crystal ball and we said, "Hey, we know rates are going to be lower next January. Let's just hold off. So, I I just remain [clears throat] unfulfilled >> with pointing to the fact that we've got good cash reserves at $25 million today, we're going to double our debt. Is there a cash position? Do you think that if we maintained at $25 million for the next seven years while we did all this, is that enough to keep us in the cash is king rating category in

059S&P in your professional opinion? >> What what we will do prior to really entering the market is we'll see how this year ends up. Okay? We'll take a look at where you think you're going to be in in 20 526 and and we do have metrics that they provide us. It's called a scorecard. >> There you go. >> And we will put a scorecard together based on, you know, what's anticipated coming down the road. Again, it's a scorecard that they that they actually go through when they do their analytics. All right. Again, the scorecard is for a box. And so it's we do that for every credit we do. The fact that as Lauren said, these projects are spaced out. It isn't like we're going to get all that money today. We're talking a five,

060sixyear plan here. They'll take a look at how you're funding that over time. And then each year because they really only look at the money that you're going to borrow now because let's say four years from now you don't need that you know maroon column whatever it was those future projects. >> No. Well okay I'm not going to get into that. But yeah they only take a look at what you're actually borrowing the but they will take a look at a long range plan. And we may not [clears throat] even share with them the entire long range plan because who knows what's going to happen 3132. >> Thank you. >> Other questions that Lauren can answer? >> Uh my question is also a little bit about timing. Um so we see you see you guys

061again in April and and then in May we sort of you know make the decision to get this first $15 million. Um I wonder with um Mrs. Warful referred to uh 25 million we have that that um so I hate to borrow the 15 million and have it sit there. I don't have the the timeline in front of me when we're actually going to be spending a lot of money, >> but um you know that's 600,000 in interest. I know we get some of it back and being in our bank, but we'd still lose. I wonder if it's [clears throat] makes sense to maybe put it off till June of 27 and just use our own money for engineering. >> Sure. >> There's there's also something called a reimbursement resolution that the IRS uh that

062we've used in the past. So, as long as you have cash, a lot of people don't have money laying around. As long as you have cash and you want to use that cash, you know, for payments that, you know, Larry goes and all the, you know, studies and so on, you could all you could pass a resolution like that and then you can reimburse yourself when you do the first financing. Okay. You could definitely do that. Definitely do that. I don't think it would change the resolution we would do. >> Yeah. because um whether you get it in June of 26 or June of 27 doesn't matter. I don't think it would change the resolution, but that is a possibility. And we were talking to Larry beforehand. He's going to give us some type of

063anticipated timeline for the projects. You know, we have just what we have on paper today, >> but we'll get a better feel for that once he starts working with all of you. Okay? in terms of you know the timing for all the projects but that's that's a good discussion we can have in April the key is once you get the documentation in place then we can act quickly if we need to act quickly okay and what we'll do based on the questions tonight great questions is we'll show you where the market is in April okay and then we'll have a discussion. Do the refunding or don't do the refunding. Wait a month or two. Who knows what the Fed's going to do. As Lawrence said, the Fed controls overnight funds. Okay, so we all see

064rates going down. Okay, it hurts you on the investment side. And ironically, the the last three cuts, the bond rates have act the long-term borrowing rates have gone the other way. Okay? Because as Lauren said, the normal shape of a yield curve is the shorter you invest, the lower. The longer you invest, the higher. So we were flat for a long period of time, the last couple years. Now it's more normal. But we don't need to make those decisions tonight. Great questions. We'll be able to review where we are in April. I think the timeline to still get things documented makes sense. and then we'll have further discussion in terms of do we want to act or don't want to act. >> And I'll just add that um because you're bringing up a really good

065kind of mathematical quandry that we live and breathe on a day-to-day basis when it comes to when do we borrow, what can we invest at, what when when does that kind of inflection point happen that it makes sense to go ahead and get that first trunch? If we could refinance these 2018 bonds today, like let's say we were at the call date and we also wanted to add the 15 million of money for new capital, you'd probably be pretty close to a break even when it comes to what you could invest at versus what you'd be borrowing at because the Fed has dropped short-term interest rates, but we'd be pretty close to break even, give or take a little bit. And so at that point, do you say, "Hey, I'm going to sit on the

066money for a year longer than I thought I would, but I can go out and invest it, you know, for that entire year, get um good interest rates locked up or as best as you can achieve in today's market, and you'd be pretty close to break even. What we don't know is where that's going to be come April, May, when we're actually in the market. But if we were standing here today and we could act tomorrow, I would be saying it probably makes sense to go ahead and get that first 15 million because we can get it locked up before the additional Fed cuts that are coming. We could lock that money up and kind of have it siloed and invested against those Fed cuts. So, just food for thought, but we'll have a better

067discussion about that come come March or April. additional good questions. [clears throat] It's always a pleasure for us to be here. Thank you so much. Uh we will uh work talk with the administration and as long as uh you want back here in April, we'll go ahead and you know have those discussions back then. >> Sounds good. >> Great. Thank you. >> Thanks everybody. Happy New Year. Happy New Year. Item number three. See, Larry, thank you for coming tonight. We loved your insight and input. [laughter] Um, item number two. Excuse me, I'm skipping right over your superintendent >> update. uh tonight want to go back and visit uh as part of the goal uh that we had been talking about for the year uh is to develop the three-year strategic financial guide uh that we

068will be working on and it was in uh November and then again in December we talked a little bit about some of the things that we've been looking at as part of our budget process. I want to visit the last bullet on this slide which is the special ed programming that we have with the district but then also with the IU uh from the standpoint of where are we as one of our major components that we are looking at in terms of where we are spending money uh and visited this slide the last uh last presentation that Mr. before he did on where we are with the budget. As you can see, our student services, the amount that we're we're spending uh paying both internally as well as uh for external placements has been on

069the increase. And one of the things that we have been talking about as a group is how do we balance between what we are providing here in the district and what are we doing with the IU. And this is where I'd like to ask um Scalan to jump in and to give an overview of where we are from the standpoint of the IU classrooms in our district as well as of where we also have students of of that are Penman students going to IU classrooms. Miss Galen. >> Very good. Um and we've seen this slide before um earlier in the fall um when I had presented uh with uh Julian Steph uh the assistant directors and we have students um in IU classes throughout Lancaster and Lebing counties. Uh and we have students again throughout

070both counties. This is this is a diagram that actually just shows you where those classes are throughout the county. The blue dots represent our district um and where the classrooms are uh within Penn Manor and we have um no you'll see that there's four dots but that's because there's overlapping within the district. So um looking at those classrooms uh that's where I want to drill down. Why do we have students in um classes? Why do we look at IU classrooms? What is the purpose of um IU uh classrooms for students? [snorts] when it when you're looking at placement first it started with um like low incident uh disabilities and what that is what that means is students who have disability areas that are not frequent um and these are areas like multiple disabilities or visual

071impairment, hearing impairment. These are areas in which uh we have students who have these disability areas. However, we may only have a few within the district or even a few within uh like the elementary level or middle school. So, for us to operate a classroom, it's not costefficient for us. It makes sense for us to uh work with other districts, form a consortium. That is what the IU did for school districts. That's what low incident is. Next, we look at districts that have fewer students in those areas, um, like autistic support. Now, that's going back a few years ago when there were fewer students in that area of disability. And, um, the IU was able to provide expertise and training and resources um, to help support those students in their area of need. And those

072classrooms then were available throughout the intermediate unit. Again, Lancaster, Lebanon, um, counties. IU classrooms also have shared resources, shared expertise. The other advantage that IU classrooms provided for school district was cost. um we could spread the cost throughout or amongst the districts and that brings about fair share obligation. What fair share obligation is there is a formula that the IU uses for our obligation for students that we have that are placed in classrooms. So if we have 10 students that we provide that we have in the IU um those students are part of at their our fair share obligation. LS may have 15 students that's their fair share obligation. CV would have their fair share obligation. That's a pot of students. There is a formula that the IU uses then to determine how many classrooms

073they need in throughout the county. Because if you think about it, the IU doesn't have classrooms. They provide teachers, they provide programming, but they don't have buildings. They need classrooms. That's what the districts provide, and that's where fair share comes in. So their formula is used by the number of students that each district sends. And that takes us to the next slide which is our fair share obligation. We have our fair share obligation is seven IU classes and that is because of the number of students that we have in IU programs. Our seven classes are all autistic support. We have one at the high school, one at Marticville Middle School, two at Central Manor, one at Mardik, I mean two at Mardik, and one at Konesoga. Again, all of these are autistic support classes. Now

074looking at these classes, what's the makeup of our classrooms? At Marketville Middle, there are six students. Eight is the capacity of these classes. Six of those students are penor students. At the high school, again, eight is the capacity. Six of those students are penor students. When you look at the elementary 40 is the capacity. All 40 of the students in those classes are our students. So all 40 of the students sitting in the IU classes in our buildings are all our students. So, as we've been talking in terms of financing, financial, you know, plan moving into the future, as we look at the cost of providing students the best services that we can, what are some ways that we can make sure we're maximizing our dollar and although we're required to be part of the

075IU, which we will continue to do, the conversation has turned to are there classrooms that we bring back into the district? And it's been quite a while since we've done this process, but D has done this in her previous district a number of times. And it's something that districts are looking at across the board. Uh, and part of it is not only because of the cost of it, but also how are we serving Penman students within the community. So, as we've been talking about this, you know, why would we take back why would we take back from the IU? In essence, why would we operate two classrooms at the elementary level that are autistic support versus continuing to work with the IU and D can better explain these, but you know, these are some of

076the things that we've been looking at. >> And I think for for me when I when I looked and I I made this point to you when you look at those 40 students at the elementary level and all 40 of those are our students. Those are Penn Manor students in Penn Manor buildings to build community and a sense of pride. Let's have Penn Manor teachers have Pen Manor students in Pen Manor classrooms in Pen Manor buildings. Um there is a sense of community, a sense of belonging not just for the students but for the families, for the communities, for the siblings. Um they even for the rest of the building itself. Um, the other part of it is being able to have control over procedural decisions. Um, where our students are placed, which buildings they're

077in, what classes they're they participate. Not that we don't have some of those decisions, but there are certain obstacles or things that we have to work through. But if these are our classes, we are making those decisions with our staff, with our principles in our buildings. Um the other piece we have is the fiscal piece. Um there is a cost savings to this. Um for me and when I started in education 40 years ago, pre-ervice I was a teacher. I didn't think I would be sitting here talking to all of you about the cost savings. I thought I would be speaking to you about what I was just talking to you about, the people side of it, the student side of it. But part of my job is the fiscal part of it. And the

078numbers do show there is a fiscal part of this. There is savings in it. Um, there's also an opportunity for growth. Growth for our students, growth for our teachers, growth for our staff. Um, growth for us as a district to have another piece of the puzzle, piece of of our community that that we don't have right now. Um, so as far as the next slide, um, what does that look like? I've talked about the cost. What is the cost savings? This is what it is looks like for um, the IU cost. Now, what the IU does, and Dan has explained that in in the past, is they give us a min and a max rate, a minimum and a maximum rate. So Dan has provided us with what next year's this year's excuse me rate

079is for um the min rate and the max rate and what that they give us that because we don't know necessarily if it's going to be the minimum or the maximum for our students. And what that means is it depends on the level of service that the student may need, the level of um potentially uh support the students may need, the number of students in the class, and that's why they give us the range. Um so that's why we give you that information. There are 16 students in two classrooms because it's a maximum of eight students in um each class. So we give you we gave you this this range for those two classes in an IU operated classrooms. >> So that's the range that we would be spending that we could potentially be spending

080for IU run classrooms. Ask Dan and D to work on this. How do we break this down if we are to bring back two elementary classrooms? We [clears throat] would be looking at the two teachers, speech therapists that would work with these programs, but also in addition to working with other students throughout the district, which is an area that we are in need. Uh right now, we are we are in an agreement uh with an outside organization to continue to provide speech services to some of our students because the case loads of our teachers is too high at this point. We would also be looking at a behavior specialist that would work with the students and the teachers and then also be able to work with uh other teachers in the building. The consultant that

081we would be working with, this would be someone that would be there to help the teachers as they work with the students. The par educators, so a lot of the students may have something written into their IEP that they need a onetoone. they might be written into their IEP that they need, you know, different services that would be provided or even just having additional hands in the classroom. The other area, we have two assistant directors of special ed. Right now, both of them are 10 months. There's a lot that happens in June and July when they are not present during that six weeks. And what we would be looking to have one of those positions change from a 10-month to a 12-month position. When we total up this the cost of this, we would be

082about 846,000, give or take a little bit. If we go back, it would almost be a break even at the minimum rate. If it would be at a higher rate, the maximum rate of what the IU would be charging, we would obviously be saving more. As Dee mentioned, there's a number of different aspects to this, but one of the things that we have to do as we look forward into next year is that we have to make a decision so that in February we can share with the IU that we are planning to have these classrooms as continuing as IU classrooms or to take them back. [clears throat] So our request to the board is that we look at this as taking back two of the elementary autistic classrooms for the following for the upcoming

083school year 2627. Uh and we're asking that we make this decision at our next meeting so that then come February when we need to we can inform the IU that we will be taking those two classrooms back. the challenges as we talk about this. I mean, we we the the two teachers uh we there are IU teachers that are in those classrooms right now. As part of taking back fair share, the first thing that we do have to do is offer those positions to those teachers. And in essence, that IU teacher would would have the opportunity to say, I want to stay within the classroom, stay within this program, but I become instead of being an IU employee, I become a pen matter employee. The other positions we would be advertising for of these list

084of positions as D and I have talked probably and based off of D's experience in doing this previously the PAR educators are are concern uh you know will we be able to find eight PAR educators that we would need uh so there's that there's that challenge to this uh it will certainly be something that we would be working on but we would be looking at this uh again it's a cost savings But yet at the same time I think it's also a benefit for our students uh being serviced in the district being serviced within our schools in avenues that they would then become part of uh you know the [clears throat] continuation of of that school in those two. We have not narrowed down which two classrooms we are looking at, but it would be

085either the two classrooms at Mardik Elementary or the two classrooms at uh Central Manor so that we have continuity in those two in those in in one of those schools >> in one of the schools. >> And then it may be something that we're coming back in for the 2728 school year to take back some of those additional classrooms. So would the consultant and the behavior specialist be providing services for those two classes only? >> The consultant would the behavior specialist? No, not necessarily. >> So that individual could be used in other special ed classes. Yes. But not the consultant. >> I do not see the consultant would the consultant would be specific to an um autism. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. Uh my other question is looking to the future, would it

086be possible, those two classes that have six out of eight students that are ours? Is it possible to take over one of those or both of those classrooms and have a students from other districts be in the class but not an IU classroom? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> So we would consider that down the road. >> Future step, do this first and then maybe that in another year or two. That is correct. And and we could offer contracts to the other districts if they would be >> if that if that is something they would be interested in. Yes. >> Okay. >> But one thing as we continue to look at this, knowing that as the students continue to age, those six out of eight >> will eventually become eight out of eight. >>

087Great. >> Eight out of eight all the way through as those 40 elementary students continue to >> age through. Mhm. >> So it may be that if there are openings, yes, we could contract with another district >> like some of the classrooms that we have students in from from Pemman into other districts are in those situations. >> Were they not IU classes? >> They're district classes. >> But did you say we're required to have a partnership with the IU or or I misunderstood that? We are but we as the number of students that we have serviced by the IU decreases it also decreases the number of classrooms that we have to house. >> Okay. Gotcha. >> Can you further explain the role of the consultant? >> So the consultant would provide support with curriculum. >>

088Okay. >> Would provide support with um the the daily structure. would provide support with uh discipline. Um it really would be that liaison between principal and myself and the assistants. Okay. >> Um for the the daily function of the classroom. So behavior, curriculum, um really how the classroom functions. Correct. Correct me if I'm wrong, D, but student has a meltdown. >> Yes. >> Teacher's going to stay focused on the classroom. The consultant's going to intervene. >> Correct. Okay. >> And try to redirect help the student. >> So, in theory, if we, you know, if we did Knesogga this year and we did Central Manor next year, we would be hiring another consultant because you or you, they would bounce between buildings that correct. >> Okay. Correct. That's what I would envision that that consultant >>

089the speech the speech therapist the BCBA and the consultant will >> will work with in the program obviously we would have to have >> question so the consultant will work with more than just those two classes this year or next year >> yes >> okay correct this year [clears throat] I wouldn't envision that because I think all the energy needs to go into the success of these two classes that's why >> okay really focused The IU >> the energy that's going to need to be put into these two classes. That makes sense. >> But in future years, absolutely. >> Okay, great. >> The IU has a consultant that works with the classrooms. Now, >> the problem is that person could also be in LS Enfield, >> right? I just was for future planning thinking, are

090we going to be hiring >> No, >> 10 consultants. >> No, >> we're looking at Okay, that was my only question. Good question. >> Yeah, I would envision the need for a consultant if we were going to >> incrementally, right? But we're not looking at needing one per building. No. Okay. No. >> Thank you. >> And is there a chance the pair of professionals [clears throat] would come over from the I13 as the teachers would too? So, okay, >> they could. Yeah. >> Yeah. Just curious. >> Mr. Sure. My my my question goes back to I assume that the numbers that we're looking at are prepared assuming that the two instructors that are currently in those classrooms become pen matter employees. So that part of this is sort of a wash globally because we've got

091this broader relationship with the IU. Why is it that our costs How is it that our cost can be so much lower than what the IU can deliver? >> It's it's based off of it's based off of our collective bargaining agreement with our teachers versus their collective bargaining agreement. >> We're paying the instructors the same thing. >> No, they're going to take pay cuts. >> There's a markup >> and the markup has gotten larger and larger. So the the 241 or where that number was, that's the actual cost that that would be if they were Pen Matter employees. Correct. >> Correct. >> And you're saying that in our contract with the IU, they marked that service up to us. >> Correct. >> Okay. And >> because you're paying their administrators, >> correct? >> And for

092their building the additional cost. So for their consultant, for their >> And there's nothing on the other side of the ledger. They don't pay us rent for the classroom space. So they >> it's they're here >> as part of the relationship >> if that fair share that >> fair share. >> Yeah. I think I don't want to belabor the the fair share was set at seven rooms and we take two of those rooms back. >> Fair share. >> What's the new definition of fair share? I because of our EI class [clears throat] coming in and we're I can't speak to that. It it could shuffle. It could change. >> I mean, it's not impossible. We could take two classrooms back and still have to give seven classrooms. >> It's possible. >> Yeah, because this is

093growing, right? This is >> correct. It is possible. But the anticipation is that would still be a net savings because instead of nine, we would have seven. >> Correct. Like the fair share obligation wouldn't cost us in a classroom per se, but yes, that is correct. [cough] >> Okay. >> So, it's more of a cost avoidance and a cost savings and a cost stabilization is really what it's coming down to. >> Yes. I mean, >> this is this year's dollars, >> correct? Those those numbers are all projected next year's numbers >> projected 26 27 >> but they don't they don't stay the same they grow every year >> right I grew at 6% >> 6% >> so >> which last year the IU contract grew at over 10 >> so in looking at these numbers

094based upon what's on the screen right now as the cost of the two classrooms that range and then what was presented of what we would need the savings savings could be anywhere from $2,000 to $700,000. So, in my best Fred and Matt Beaks voice, I'm going to ask these questions. Number one, do we have to make a decision on January 20th to tell them by February 1st or can we wait to uh get more information for January 20th to let them know uh to vote on it in February to let them know later in February? And here's where I'm going with that. $2,000 isn't a lot of a lot of money for me to bring that back. And I guess I have questions about the culture building that was referenced here. And my question would

095be why isn't a any classroom with any pen manor students not embraced inside of our building. So for that to me is a wash. But can we look at what those costs have been over the last several years in the range and also project now we would be adding eight pair of professionals two teachers the consultant I guess would be a 1099 consultant or would they be a pen they're all employees >> so >> everything on that next next slide we flip that next slide there >> we're adding 5 13 and an additional amount to an assistant director. So what's that cost going to be over the next several years because it's going to grow in addition with our teacher contract and based upon the IUs >> it will grow much slower >> much slower.

096So that $2,000 that we're showing now that we could get would be what in five years? >> The the big thing is is next year >> if we take additional classes the [clears throat] incremental saving gets larger >> if we take additional classes >> do we know that for sure? Has that been communicated to us? >> We've run that model. Yes. And do we have the room to take additional classrooms until we build some buildings? >> Are already here? >> They're already here. >> But we know that this population is growing. So we know that our fair we know that the fair share even if we take back classrooms the fair share in a year or two is going to be higher which means we need classrooms. >> We don't. >> Right. Am I Am

097I >> We don't know that. >> We don't know what >> you don't know what the fair share is going to do. >> I mean, we know what our numbers look like, but we don't know what the rest of the county fair done the last three, four years. >> Has it stayed seven classrooms over the past five years? >> I would have to go back and look at that. >> Yeah, I have to go back. So that's it's sort of the information that I would be looking for before I feel comfortable saying >> the last three years. >> We added one this year. >> We added the one at Central Matter this year, right? >> So went from six to seven. >> It moved. So >> okay. >> Yes. So along Dr. Fullerton's questions regarding

098the the pen manor cost, >> do those numbers up there include the cost of benefits and the cost of piecers? So that's the all-in cost for the employee. Okay. >> And it's placing it's not placing people at a starting rate either. It's looking a couple years of experience, a couple steps up. >> So we're we're not assuming we're getting entry level individuals. No. >> Okay. So it is >> I' I'd also [snorts] like to see what the peripheral costs are too. You know, additional HR support, additional, you know, all the other surrounding costs that come with expansions like this. Um and also you know for two teachers 241,000 I understand that's salary and benefits. um that's 120,000 per what step is added within our contract you know why is it if it's pen matter costs

099you know if it's pen matter collective bargaining agreement >> well that's what benefits too so [cough and clears throat] >> I understand that but you know where does that >> for somebody who's on >> masters 15 step nine >> mast's 15 step nine >> and then is there any I know some of the other school districts, you know, and I don't know if this would fall underneath, but like the state provides some additional PAR educators and all like that. Is that an option here or is that something that we couldn't we wouldn't uh qualify for or to try and keep those costs down even a little bit more? I don't know if that was possibility or not. Substitutes, >> those would be things and this is like when we go back to the reasons why

100as to why I take back more control. This whole discussion that we're having right now about our costs, if we don't take back these classrooms, we don't have this discussion. >> The IU says to us, here's the amount of money you owe us. >> And oh, by the way, the bill comes in September after the year ends. >> Yeah. >> Use this as an example of one of the aspects of why we are considering this. Correct. >> I mean, these are all great questions. They're all they're all things that we've considered and talked about. We haven't >> put it all in like perspective from past to to current to future. But as we've talked about this, this these are some of the reasons that we have looked at this and said in a way to

101save cost avoidance, moving monies from one pot to another pot, how do we best serve this? >> I'll I'll share your >> I'll share your concern over eight pareducators. Yeah. >> Um >> because if we don't get eight pair of educators then the cost will go up. >> So when we talk about process, Dr. Forton, we have to let the IU know in writing by February 8th. >> Correct. So, we would be able to provide you with more information at our next meeting as long as the decision is then voted upon at our first meeting in February, >> which is February 2nd. February. >> So, we do have some time. >> Can everybody live with that? >> Mr. Fory, I have a follow-up question. Mhm. >> Um, when you said when we take back more

102classes, the incremental savings increases, and I'm assuming that's because we're laying the foundational groundwork with some of the additional support staff, >> correct? >> Which goes back to our previous conversation of we're not going to hire another consultant, right? That $127,000 will get spread amongst >> more classrooms, right? Like the the actual cost per classroom is the teacher and the >> paras. And then the rest of those get spread out incrementally. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Well, you would need another BCBA. Correct. >> We would not hire another BCBA or another consultant to add the other two. >> Right. >> Probably not any of the other ones, just the par educators and the teachers. Everything else could be spread out. >> Correct. >> Right. >> You may need another speech as you have to look

103at the depend Right. We're already but we're already contracting for a speech therapist, right? So, we're just asking for an approval of making that position ours instead of a contracted employee. >> Correct. So, that 120,000 is not a new expense or wholly new. Is that accurate? >> Yeah, we're spending some on that, >> right? >> Current time. >> Yeah. [snorts] >> Correct. I just want to make sure like we're all on the same page of where that money is going. Correct. >> Yeah. There there's >> there's people on this list that can get used outside of those two classrooms, >> right? >> But trying to make it as complete as possible, we're bringing you everything >> in rather than saying, "Oh, it's only half of >> Hey, it's all of this, >> right?" >> And

104and as we take the classrooms back like a startup, put some additional resources there to make sure that it's successful that as we continue. >> Correct. And then we're able to branch out from there. Like you said, MW work like the more classrooms we would take back the positions that we would be adding would be additional teachers and additional PAR educators. The others would be spread out through. >> Is this a trend in other districts? Do you know? >> Yes. >> Many other districts have taken back um classes. Many others. Yeah, I think for me the cost stabilization is is key. You know, we're stabilizing our costs. You know, I really don't see it as a cost savings. It's just cost stabilization. Um I guess my two questions or two things that I would like

105to see is one obviously there's additional costs that the IU incurs by having the students that require additional needs that they so how are we going to incorporate those additional costs when those students come you know are are there right because it's this year they're Not we might get some new students that are that our costs increase. Is that correct? Right. So we have a student that is requiring more services more needs which is why they up it to the higher amount that >> well their their issue is the thing the thing that biggest thing that drives the higher amount is if the classroom is not full. >> Yeah. >> Right. And so we know that with 40 elementary students, we will have two full classrooms. >> So it's strictly that the students are won't

106have full students. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Um and then the other thing is is thing that I'm concerned about with teacher shortages and and substitute shortages and these teachers and substitutes have to be qualified in order to what are we going to do? I mean for us that falls back to the IU not to be you know what are we going to do how are we going to handle that >> it it >> and and and >> where they don't have them we we ask Miss Gallen it >> and it's it even it's still our concern though even if it's the I mean I've ran into that this summer >> not saying it's not but it's also the IU's responsibility the IU's liability the Technically, it's >> unfortunately no. >> It really is. >>

107It's all ours. >> Yeah. >> Um I that happened this summer. Um they didn't have a classroom for five of our students and I was left with finding a spot for them. So, it's our responsibility, >> Right. So, at least we know the deficit >> hopefully sooner than later or more advanced notice if there's a problem in theory. Yes sir. >> Um I kind of have two two points. One, so so looking at the 847 there. So Dan Dan sort of if you back out the 6% so this year would be like about 800,000 in in today's money something like that. >> Um I just wonder like historically how much they charge us like because it's such a ridiculous range there like 8 848 to whatever it was like one and uh >> it's almost

108double. >> Yeah. Right. Um, yes. So, I just kind of first I wonder about what they normally [cough] charge us and secondly if it's worth [clears throat] having a conversation. It looks like we're headed down this path, but maybe the IU sort of been our partner for a long time here. Maybe we say, "Look, if you can keep it under 900,000, you know, we'll keep you or 800,000 or whatever is pick a number." Um, before we just cut ties, maybe talk to them. >> Yeah. And I I think I mean please understand that while we take back the classroom we are still in the partnership with the IU >> because there's many other there's other students that are still receiving services through the IU and even in through other >> other mechanisms that we're continuing

109to work with the IU. >> So this isn't like we're going to take everybody back and forget you all. >> Okay. We'll continue to work with in this in in the agreement that all 16 well all 24 districts in the in the entire IU have with each other but also with the IU. It's just a matter of us bringing into our district these programs that would serve our students. >> Yeah. This isn't like we're cutting ties with you at all. >> and to answer Mr. Hurst's question, it's not negotiable. You know, it's not like we can go to them and say, "Well, if you can get this under a certain amount, then yeah, >> it's a >> everything's negotiable." >> Yeah. So, in other words, they're telling us because this is what it is for

110all the districts. >> Dr. You're the president of their board. >> Everybody's looking at me, right? You know, um no, it's a it's a menu, right? And it's something that um the IU administration puts together. Uh you've got to remember the IU is not a taxing body. So it has to raise its own funds basically. It's business >> and it's no fault of theirs. I mean it's just the situation that like you talk about this the the teacher shortage. That's a huge consideration for their practices as well as what we're doing. It's just that we have control over that those two classrooms at this point. uh the cost of it, you know, we yeah, we you know, we we would continue to educate the students, but it wouldn't be the same cost because our overhead

111is different than the IU's overhead. Uh one factor that we haven't talked about is transportation. You know, as we have students going to IU classrooms, there's a significant transportation cost. In some cases, this would save us money indirectly in that way as we service students within the district. And that's what I want the the peripheral cost the ancillary costs that we are incurring and or will incur through these through this you know bringing the bringing it back in. I mean >> we bust them now. >> I realize that. >> Yeah, >> I realize that. And that's you know is that put into the cost savings as well? >> No, they're going to cost avoidance. >> It's the same. I meant when we send when we have students going to when we have students going out

112we have to bust them out. These are all our students. >> So these are so these 40 students are currently >> participating within [snorts] our own school district just under IU contract as opposed to our own internal. >> Correct. >> Right. So the again I'll reiterate the IU uh the largest group of employees that we are struggling to hire are the PAR educators. Yeah, >> that is the that's going to be the the challenge here is to find unless we pay higher than the IU for PAR PA pareducators and and we've done everything possible to try to attract people uh for those positions. Um, so that is that is the the challenge and would keep me up at night. [snorts] But you know, in the IU classrooms, that's a challenge as well. And to your

113point, you know, if the IU can't find a teacher or hire a teacher for a classroom, they go right back to the districts. And Miss Galen's absolutely correct. There are districts that take back their classrooms. And then we've had districts that take back their classrooms for two years and then give them right back to the IU because of their own challenges that occurs as well. >> So yes, sir. >> I I still wonder so so um if they bill us in the end of September, so we just got build for the 2425 school year three months ago or so. >> Um I just >> it was $400,000 more than it was supposed to be. >> Okay, that answer. Y >> that's almost a 1% tax increase in case anybody wonders that math. Right. >> Correct.

114>> Yeah. >> Do you remember what the difference was the year prior? >> Uh we got 300,000 back then. >> Oh, okay. >> But we pay an estimated or something. >> We you pay an estimated at midy year. Okay. You pay you pay an estimate at the beginning of the year. >> Yeah. And then they drew it up at the middle of the year and then they finalized it afterwards. >> Varied varied that much. >> Correct. >> So it was a $700,000 swing in two years plus it was a 10% increase in the cost. [clears throat] >> That stability is >> that's based off of that's based off of the services that a student may or may not need. We talk about, you know, the student comes into the district, it may be a $250,000

115student or it may not be. You never know. >> so that $400,000 swing, was that for the two classes we're talking about taking back or is that for all seven? >> All that was >> that was the entire IU bill. [clears throat] >> Entire. >> So, it's the outside, right? >> So, reason expect to >> cost save or cost replace two two7s of that >> right >> well >> include entire bill >> so yeah it's not going to affect outside placements >> so when you say the entire it wasn't just for those seven classrooms that was for all the services the IU correct >> so what would correct >> so do we know what the specific swing was for those >> particular seven classes or the two classes so that we can get down to

116a little bit more granular versus a $700,000 swing or what was it for those particular classes so we can then estimate guesstimate what it could be because I mean what's our total bill for all of our IU services? What was the We had a $400,000 difference. What was our total IU services? And how much of that was directly because of these classes? That $400,000 difference? How much of that was for these particular classes? >> I we can come back with that. I mean, >> yeah. >> If you can pull that out. I don't know if the the bills are >> I can look at how the autistic classroom cost went up >> classrooms. Yeah. from actual to actual. [clears throat] >> And this may be a later question or but of the supports we receive

117from the IU, are the autistic support classrooms the more expensive option because there's a higher need there. >> Or are our kids or among among the higher cost classroom. >> That was nice. >> You look at the classrooms. Yes. >> Right. Okay. >> And are are outside placements typically more expensive on par less expensive? Do we like per student? Do we know that? It just or this too individual to know >> it it depends on the placement and depends on the student need. It it's really hard for me to answer that >> and that's fine. >> Yeah. >> Um yeah >> okay >> I'd hate to make a blanket statement because there's some places that are very expensive and then there's other places that are not >> right. It just depends on the students we

118have today that could move tomorrow. >> There are some students who are very high cost and then >> or could arrive >> could arrive next. Right. It's not all because it's laggered cost also. Right. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Any other questions? What a great discussion. Right. And um so thank you for putting together a little information and thank you for uh postponing this one more meeting until you know we can digest this a little a little further. Um certainly not a black and white answer here. Right. So um okay so next topic field study proposal >> uh in your packet of information tonight uh in the folder there is a a proposal from Durk and Edson. Durkin Edson is the landscape architecture that we have worked with on most of our projects within the last

119uh two decades. Uh and as conversations have uh started to occur with uh Crabtree uh and uh Dan and myself, one of the things that we have started to think about as we consider our building projects that could be a new middle school, it could be work at Echelman, you know, as we move into it, what impact will this have on our fields throughout the district? Uh but also as we know we need to consider and keep in in touch uh with what do we do at Comet Field. Uh one of the things that we wanted to do was to take a look at all of our fields throughout the district. Uh obviously we have the majority of them over at Common Field here at the high school and then over at the Manor Hambrite

120campus, but there are fields that are scattered throughout each of our elementary schools that are used or not used in different capacities. So in our conversations with uh Durk and Edson, we asked them to put together a proposal for us to consider where they would do an assessment of all of our outdoor field and facility sites. Uh so that would be our existing uh fields at the seven elementary schools, our two middle schools, the high school and at the Comet Field. And in this what they would be looking at is our existing conditions, how they're utilized by season and sports, what maintenance is needed, uh accessibility for both vehicles as well as people walking to those fields and then also ADA uh accessibility. uh the quality of the fields including our turf fields uh what's

121the drainage the field location orientation. So, as we begin to look at impact on our sites that we have throughout the district, are there things that we need to do to be a short-term fix to a field that might be used while a construction project is taking place or is this a change that we need to really consider and incorporate into some of the into the uh cost of our future projects? The proposal calls for a fee of $18,750. That's for the exhaustive search or the exhaustive uh uh examination of all the fields and then and then providing us with recommendations of what we would do. So this is a kickstart us into uh our construction projects that we would have as we consider different proposals. Basically preparing ourselves to say what is it that

122we would be able to be able to use at different locations if and when the construction project would happen at uh at the Hambrite Matter campus and then are there other places that we could use. We all know that our fields, the district fields are used heavily by not just our sports teams and our students, but also throughout the community. There's usage uh at at a lot of the different fields that we have. So, we want to make sure that we are preparing for uh the misplace or the mis that you know taking out some fields during construction project realigning uh as we move forward. questions about the the proposal. >> Even though uh we're in January of 26, are those prices are they going to honor those prices? Okay. >> Yep. >> Yeah. We

123received this back in in early parts of December, November, December >> with the schedule Dan explained to them that this would be acted upon in January. >> Okay. Any questions for Dr. G? Seeing [clears throat] none, uh, may I have a motion to place this on the January 20th board voting agenda? >> So moved. >> Thank you. Second. >> Second. >> Thank you. Any further comment or question? All those in favor? >> Eight affirmative votes. >> Thank you. All right. And uh item number four are board committee assignments. Uh in the uh Our board information document is the typed out version. I got a chance to talk to everybody except for um Mr. Warfl. So, he got all of the committees. No. Uh >> that's what I read. >> Elected elected by the board. Uh

124uh I asked Miss Wart to uh fulfill Mr. Jackson's seat on the Lancaster Levan Joint Authority. Um we still have listed. Oh, no. Mr. Straw is is going to be on the CTC joint authority, which is different than the the CTC board. Um, Miss Kek, we're going to vote on uh to retain Miss Wart at the Lancaster Academy. Um, and Miss Kek to be the alternate. Uh, Mr. Beaks to be at the Lancaster County CTC JOC with Mr. Warful as the alternate. Um, I'm sorry, Mr. Warfl, but uh, uh, Mr. Beaks will probably never miss a meeting that's at the Mount Joy campus where they feed them very well. So, if you're going to >> if you're going to want to go, [laughter] you'll have to get him get him sick. And then we have

125Mr. Fory has the tax collection bureau representative. and no no uh rest for our newbie. Miss Spangler will be voting on you to be the alternate to that. So, welcome to Pen Manor. Uh and Mr. Fory being the tax collector. Uh just to point out some of the changes in the rest of the document that could appointed by the president. Uh Mr. Warfl will be the PSBA liaison. Um, uh, Miss Hope will fulfill the distinguished awards wall of honor. U, Miss Kek, the Comet Code curricular. We're all part of judicial review and the grievance committee. Miss Napinger will still continue with the superintendent evaluation. Our facilities group, Miss Napsinger, Mr. Beaks, Mr. Her, Mr. Warfl our act 93 group Miss Wart myself and Miss Napsinger Miss Napsiger and I will handle superintendent contract and Miss

126Napsinger will do counseling advisory and then textbook Miss Wart Mr. Lombardo and Miss Hope board policy Miss Napsinger Miss Wart Mr. Beaks and Mr. Lombardo and district audit Miss Hope volunteered for that one. NU negotiations, Miss Kek. And I don't even know what that does, so >> Okay, >> we'll we'll make that one up. >> Um, financial services, Mr. Warfl, and uh everything else stayed Oh, and architectural services, Mr. Warful, and everything else stayed the same. So, when we get to uh that part in the board voting agenda, we'll vote on the ones that um are listed as presented. Any questions? Anything else for the committee of the whole? >> Do we need to vote to place that on the agenda? >> Uh do we? >> Yes, we do. >> May I have a motion?

127>> So, move >> and a second. Second. >> Thank you. Any further comment or question? Come on, man. Don't vote no tonight. We won't hold it against you. All those in favor? [laughter] >> Whoa. >> Eight affirmative votes. >> Thank you. >> It's going to snow. >> It is going to snow. >> I want it snow to come soon. >> The Steelers are now going to win the Super Bowl. Anything else for the good of the committee of the whole? Seeing none, I will adjourn the committee of the whole and we will call to order the Monday, January 5th, 2026 Pen Manor School Board voting agenda meeting. Um, would you please join me in a moment of silence and the flag? >> Thank you. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of

128America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> The next scheduled meeting of the Pen Manor School Board will be held on Tuesday, January 20th, 2026. Following the committee of the whole meeting, an executive session was held prior to the committee of the whole meeting for the purpose of discussing personnel as detailed on the committee of the whole agenda. Mrs. Rhodess, may we have a roll call, please? >> Sure. Mr. Beaks >> here. >> Mr. Her >> here. >> Mrs. Hope here. Mrs. Kek >> here. Mr. Lombardo is absent. Mr. Warfl >> here. >> Ms. Wart >> here. >> Mrs. Napsiger >> here. Dr. Fullerton >> here. Eight board members present. >> At each of our meetings, we offer our citizens two opportunities

129to comment. We have reached that first section. This first town of comments is for agenda items only. Do we have any citizens wishing to speak on board items on this agenda? Seeing none, I would enter entertain a motion to approve the December 1st, 2025 voting agenda minutes. >> So moved. >> Thank you. A second. >> Second. >> Thank you. Any further comment or question? [clears throat] All those in favor? >> Eight affirmative votes. >> Dr. Gail, superintendent report. Uh just real briefly two reminders. Uh first uh if anyone is planning to attend the COSPA conference uh which is in uh March, the early bird deadline early bird registration deadline is January 12th. If uh anyone's planning to please let Mrs. Rhodess know so we can get you registered. And then as we had talked about

130our midyear retreat is scheduled for January 24th. Uh please forward any agenda items as Dr. for tonight. Continue to put that agenda together. >> So, I have make it short and sweet. >> It's been a quiet two weeks. >> You know, that's the second time you've used the word quiet. >> It was quiet around here. It was very quiet. >> You know what's going to happen tomorrow. Someone please call EBI and give him a heads up. >> I mean, Mr. Her jinxed us the last time. So, >> Mr. Fory, treasures report. >> Treasures report for November of 2025. The balance sheet as of November 30th, 2025 shows total assets of 61,923,35566. And tonight there are November bills are awaiting ratification as presented. >> Thank you, Mr. Fory. May I have a motion to pay our

131bills? >> Some moved. >> Thank you. And a second. >> Second. >> Thank you. [snorts] Any further comment or question? All those in favor? >> Eight affirmative votes. >> Okay, let's review our agenda. Item two, A through E. Do I have any comments or questions? >> Okay. >> Yeah. Real quick question on A1. What what what is our not to exceed index for this year? Just >> 4.5. Thank you. Okay. Item three, A through D. Any comment or question? And item four, A through H. Any comments or questions? Seeing none, may I have a motion to approve item 2 A through E? So move. >> Thank you, Miss Wart. The second, >> Mr. Her. [clears throat] >> Second. [laughter] >> Well, don't let that awkward silence get you, you know. Thank you, Miss Hope. >>

132Any further comment or question? >> Just a comment about uh 2A that we're not setting the tax rate. We're just setting that we're not exceeding a 4.5. That is correct. All those in favor. >> Eight affirmative votes. >> Thank you. Item three, A through D. May I have a motion? >> So moved. >> Thank you. Okay. Second. >> Second. >> Thank you. Any further comment or question? All those in favor? Eight affirmative events >> and item four A through H. May I have a motion, please? >> So move. >> Thank you. And a second. >> Second. >> Thank you. Any further comment or questions? All those in favor. >> Eight affirmative. >> Thank you very much. We have now reached our second opportunity for citizens to make comments. A reminder that comments are limited to

133five minutes and can be anything district [snorts] related. Do we have any citizens comments? >> Sir, if you could state your name and >> Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. >> I am so sorry. I am so sorry. That was Lancaster County Academy. I'm sorry. >> Uhhuh. >> So, sorry for the interruption. you know your name and time. >> Good evening. Tom Keller. I live in Konosoga Township. I'm next door neighbors with Ken Phillips, so you're getting uh the wrath of Hershey Lane tonight. [laughter] Uh I'm also the uh local business owner, but I'm the board president for the Loft Community Partnership. And that's why I'm here tonight uh to speak to you all about how I'm seeing the needs of the the district from a from a social work side of the of the district. Um

134just a real quick recap on who the Loft is. I know most of you know who we are and what we do. Um, we're currently serving the Pen Matter community by providing food, toiletries, clothing, furniture, targeted programs like Thanksgiving meals, Christmas gifts, uh, the summer lunch program, and administering the power pack uh, program amongst many other things. Actually, uh, we're currently serving over 400 families a week uh, with food insecurities. So, our uh nonprofit has grown significantly in the last five years uh as the needs in our community have grown significantly uh in recent years. Um while our service area largely overlaps the school districts, we do not receive of course any district funding. We operate independently under the governance of uh our own board of directors. I'm coming before you today uh to ask

135you to please consider budgeting um add uh the need for additional social workers within the district. Uh not because our two current social workers uh are not doing an excellent job because they do are in my opinion doing an unbelievably phenomenal job. Um, but because the need has outgrown our current staff levels, we've seen, as I had said, significant changes in our district over the past 10-15 years, particularly in the last five increased family instability, housing and food, food insecurity, mental health needs are now showing up more than ever and making their way into our classrooms. Um, I know you all know what the social worker's primary responsibility is, you know, in the district as a school social worker. Um, they're trying to eliminate barriers to education by supporting the whole child. So, you know,

136crises that come up, family deaths, abuse, violence, homelessness, I think we have around 200 right now homeless um that are experiencing homelessness in the district. uh food insecurity, lack of health care, needs for counseling. Um they're attempting to identify the root causes so that they can, you know, help that child receive an education. And often that's tied to, you know, back to the family, transportation challenges or serious mental health concerns. Of course, every situation's completely unique um and requires a boots on the ground professional who can identify the barrier and connect students with the right resources. I went around to all the just about every school in the past year um just letting our teachers know a little bit more about the law since we're doing so much more in recent years. And one thing

137really came to light as I was uh meeting with with the staff at all these schools and that's how much um our teachers were doing social work as part of their job and you know they're doing it out of compassion but also out of necessity. Um, while I deeply respect that, I do feel that our teachers primary responsibility is to educate and social workers are trained and know the available programs, resources in the community to help these students find the programs and uh access to resources that are needed to help them and help the family. Our two social workers are not just at capacity. They are operating beyond what is sustainable. Um, which I'm seeing is creating burnout, service gaps, and delayed intervention. Uh, none of this serves our students well. I'm asking that we

138write the ship by staffing appropriately. I'm asking the board to consider adding two additional social workers for a total of four and perhaps a administrative assistant or some type of intern that could help with the uh time consuming documentation and coordination tasks that happen every day. Uh that can take hours just doing paperwork and getting them, you know, to the right place. Um and ideally at least one of these positions would be bilingual. um to help better serve our families. Uh I understand this request has been made in the past and was not approved. I'm just asking now that you revisit this in light how our community has changed um and what our students are facing today. Um adding these social workers, it's about removing barriers so our students can show up, stay engaged, and

139succeed. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Sure. >> So Tom Keller is a taxpayer within the school district. He's the president of the loft and a business owner. Um I had made a request for him to do a presentation. It had and unfortunately it was not put on tonight's schedule. So, I would like to make a motion that we allow him to make the presentation at our um board retreat so that um we can see this because I personally with with what I do um I know what our social workers do, the needs are significantly increasing. And while maybe some of the action items that our social workers do as a as employees, we may be saying that should not me ne necessarily be taxpayer funded. The school district's paying for it in a

140lot of different ways and already and I just so I'd really like to have serious consideration around around this issue. >> Well, no motion necessary, but he has to bring donuts. No, I'm kidding. >> Thank you. >> No, thank you. Thank you, Tom. >> Any other citizens comments? >> Sir, [clears throat] can you please state your name and uh your township? >> I don't think we know this one. >> Good evening. Good evening. >> Oh, he's got handouts. Good evening, Mitchell Swigert, Millersville Burrow. So, good evening, ladies and gentlemen of the Pemman School Board. First and foremost, uh warm welcome and congratulations to the newly appointed uh school directors. Your election was a clear affirmation of the values uh our communities weigh our community weighs heaviest, namely stewardship, accountability, and responsibility of the taxpayers's money

141and that it's not excuse me and that's what I'm here to talk to you about tonight. Most of you know me, but for those that don't, presently I'm a software engineer, but previously I was a series 50 licensed municipal financial adviser with PFM Financial Advisors in Harrisburg. During that time, I worked with many school districts in the Commonwealth, helping and advising them during the bond issuance process. During that time, I worked with many underwriters, including Raymond James. Tonight, I heard a lot about what the taxpayer is going to have to burden over the coming years for the new buildings in our school district. But one omission rang loud, what we're paying Raymond James. [snorts] To be frank, I couldn't be more disappointed with the presentation tonight. Uh especially after our fall meeting in which we

142directed the administration to work with Raymond James on their fee that they'd be charging the district. We are at the cusp of issuing more than $150 million in bonds. At Raymond James current fee, which is known as the bond discount, uh that will their fee will will alone cost us nearly $1.5 million in direct taxpayer in direct taxpayer costs for simply issuing the bonds. Context matters and which is why I've provided you the information uh on the on the paper. In the last five Raymond James issuances in the state of Pennsylvania, two of them closed with a bond discount in the $5 range at 550 and 575. That's nearly half what they're proposing to charge us. And if we should get that, we are in fact a valued client of theirs. As Ken Phillips stated,

143that would be a savings of nearly $500,000 for the issuance of $150 million in bonds. If you remember back to Raymond James' fall presentation, I asked them about their fee, specifically Hemfield, who's paying them seven $7.50 per bond. And I asked them why they charged Hempfield 750 and they charge us 875. The justification was simple. It was because Hempfield had a financial adviser. Now, that seemed to satisfy many. But as you can see in the information I provided you here, uh there was a school district Nazareth who's paying 550 with the same financial adviser. Where does that $2 difference come in come from? What accounts for that? Don't overthink it. It's really simple. The underwriters will charge the maximum their client is willing to pay, leaving them make excess profits and the taxpayer shoulder the

144burden. And this shouldn't be a surprise. The regulatory body that oversees underwriters, the Municipal Securities Rulemaking Board, states on rule G17, unlike a municipal adviser, the underwriter does not have a fiduciary duty to the issuer under federal securities law. Don't get me wrong, I respect and value expertise. I'm all for paying professionals what their service is worth. The problem is that without a competitive bidding process, we don't know what services we're buying or what a fair price looks like. So, here's my proposal. Let's make the market work for us. Let's issue an RFP for underwriting services. Open the field. Let firms tell us exactly what they'll deliver and at what rate. Then, and only then, will this board make a make an informed, transparent choice for our students, for our taxpayers, and for trust with

145the community. Finally, don't be pressured into the timeline laid out before you tonight. I vividly recall painting ourselves into a corner with the high school project, and it left a lot of heartburn with me and other board members. Even if you desire to refinance our bonds in June, that leaves us 180 days between now and then. Plenty of time to conduct an R an underwriter RFP, which we can open and close within 90 days to ensure we're receiving the services we need at a fair and competitive price. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Any other citizens comments? Seeing none, anything else for the good of the board. Seeing none, everybody, I hope that you have a nice holiday with family and friends. Happy New Year. This meeting is