10/6/25 Board Meeting

001[Music] Heat. Heat. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I'd like to call to order the Monday, October 6th, Penmanor School District Committee. The whole meeting, the next scheduled meeting of the Penmanor School Board will be held on Monday, November 3rd, 2025 at 700 p.m. in the large group instruction room of the Penmanor High School. Please remember this is our only meeting of October. This is fantastic. An executive session was held prior to the committee of the whole meeting for the purpose of discussing personnel and student matters as detailed above. Mrs. Rhodess, may we have a roll call, please? >> Sure. Mr. Beaks >> here. >> Mr. Her >> here. >> Mr. Lombardo >> here. >> Mr. Straw >> here. >> Mr. Swagert is absent. Mr. Warful >> here. >> Ms. Wart >> here. >> Mrs. Snapser

002>> here. >> Dr. Fullerton >> here. >> Eight board members present. >> Before we go any further, it's the bottom of the fourth. Still 00 for all you Phillies fans. Go Dodgers. U may I have a motion to approve the minutes from September 15, 2025? >> So moved. >> Thank you. A second. >> Second. Any further comment or question? All those in favor? >> Eight affirmative votes. >> Board development opportunities and reports. Do we have any reports? Mr. Stro? >> Yep. Thank you. To uh report regarding our CTC JOC meeting of September 25 at the Mount Joy campus, which as uh Dr. Fullerton knows means a very good meal. and uh prepared by the students for the most part. >> We notice you don't miss those meetings, right, Mr. Beats? You know, >> I will

003miss those, but I don't. >> So, very good. And the uh the meeting itself, of course, uh was well attended because of the the dinner provider. >> Imagine that. And uh so we're it's basically uh kind of the same situation that I reported at our uh after the last JC meeting in that we we have very very strong attendance. Uh there is a wait list of unserved students right now of about 330 and there are a couple programs that have some open seats. So that's a bad combination when you have a big weight list and programs with open seats. Total open seats altogether from uh from every program is 167 but there are maybe four that are in double digits with open seats and those are the ones that have to be examined. How can

004they be improved to attract more students or do they have to be uh maybe looked upon for termination to use those seats for something that is more attractive to the students? And sometimes it's just changing the name of the program that creates uh you know a difference with the high school students. So we're working on that. Uh right now as far as expansion it's still the approach of we can maybe have an extra 25 seats here there. We're looking at the sending schools some of which have space for programs. Uh we're looking at the I believe is it the ABC uh building group in Mount Troy. They're very interested in in having hosting some programs there. >> Oh, good. >> So, uh that is where we're headed right now. The idea of an overall plan

005is on hold because we still have our executive director uh held hostage by the Pennsylvania budget, which needs to be passed. And then we hope we can have a director appointed after that occurs at some point down the road, I guess. So, uh oh, and and the other uh point of of interest and Dr. Gale would have been involved I think with a presentation that we're taking CTC is taking a different approach with presentations at the sending schools and that we're not going to be sending people to appear in front of a whole group of of uh juniors and sophomores but we're going to present the information and then have a targeted group that will be uh in person and then able to field questions for that group that is directly interested. I think that

006was discussed >> smaller groups. Yeah, small small group presentation so that if students do have specific questions about our program, there'll be a counselor from the CTC as well as some of our counselors that will be there to answer those questions. >> And we have a video that'll serve for the initial presentation that seems to be well done, impactful. Those were the uh points. Any questions about that? We had a great fundraiser. Again, the u uh the foundation representatives were present at the the meeting and uh they're indicating that they as always did a fantastic job and and have funding of over $100,000 available for students and teacher innovation grants. >> Great. >> Fantastic. All good news there. >> How will students sign up for these present? Is it sign up or? >> Yeah, it'll

007be here here at the high school. Okay. >> And they'll still have the open house tours and things like that to go to or open house and tours I should say where we'll take students to. >> Yes, the open houses are coming up in uh November I believe for the campuses. And also one other point we've started I think a good uh idea kind of as we do here at Pen Mary we have a breakfast scheduled with each of the campuses now it's all on the same day so you're going to choose a campus to go to but it will it's a start we're getting more connection between the the JC and >> oh good >> the instructors >> good idea >> that's all >> okay Yes, I have a report on the Lancaster County

008Academy board uh meeting last Wednesday, October 1st. Uh we did have have several hirings and a couple job changes. Uh I think I'd mentioned at our last board meeting that uh we did hire for the cleaning at our new facility a former student and she's giving us a good rate uh as a as a means of giving back to the academy. Also, our director, Amanda Griffin, has created a student handbook for the uh students there with which I think well, we all believe is a very positive move because we hadn't had one up until now. Um, additionally to increase the commitment with the students, even though the program is Monday through Thursday, students who are not reaching their goals e either via attendance or uh their work, they will be required to go on Fridays

009uh so that we help make them be more successful. And a real positive UFC gym is now offering for the students on both campuses free membership. Uh, and that's a $700 a month savings. And also all of the teachers can join for 20 d $29 a month which is a a significant discount. So we're real pleased to offer that at the academy and we had our open house at our new facility at Park City and that was about two weeks ago and I want to thank Dr. Gail and Mr. Warful for attending um that occasion and uh I think we'll hear more of that when Mrs. Griffith um Griffin shares with us. >> Well, that's great. Uh how do we become teachers so that we can get them? >> Well, you can apply in your

010part-time >> in my spare time. Right. Right. Yeah. >> Thank you. Any questions for Miss Wart? Okay. Any other board reports? >> If not, we'll move to board opportunities. >> Okay. As a reminder again, this is our only meeting for the month of October. So, don't show up in two weeks. You'll be here by yourself. Um, and then following that, our uh next board breakfast is at Echelman on October 15th. Uh, Dr. Gil, will we have the opportunity to tour before and after again? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yep. So mark your calendars uh to be there early or stay a little bit later so you can see what's going on at Echelon. And then this is the last time we're going to talk about the PSBA conference at the Kalahari Conference Center or as

011Dr. Fullerton likes to refer to it, the water park. So have fun, Dr. Gail and Mr. Lombardo. Thank you for representing us um at that conference. >> It's my pleasure. >> All right. And um just also to mark your calendar, March 13th through the 15th is COSPA. And I know Cindy's going to need responses to that in the coming weeks. So check your calendars. >> And also attached to our board book is the delegate handbook. Please take a gander at it. The platform is listed and all the rules that nobody will follow uh on that >> at the assembly. Thank you. And with that, we will move to item number one. And uh Dr. Gail, you will introduce us to our special guest here this evening. >> Yeah. So, uh tonight we do have opportunity

012to hear about the Langster County Academy. Uh for those of you who are not familiar with this program, this is one of those programs that we do partner with uh similar to the CTC and our virtual school to provide students who are PMAN residents an opportunity to earn their degree. It's been a longstanding uh partnership that the district has had with the academy and thankfully Miss Wart has been our board representative uh for many years and commits additional time to uh that that board. So we appreciate that uh with her efforts with that. Uh Miss Wart, would you like to introduce uh Mrs. Griffin? >> It would be my pleasure as the board representative to the Lancaster County Academy. It has been my pleasure to work with Amanda these last few years. She comes to

013um us the academy with uh a broad background in education from teaching responsibilities to administration in both rural and um urban settings. She is currently a in a doctoral program at Millersville University for leader educational leadership and recently was awarded the Baldwin leadership uh award for 2026. And what that does is gives a $5,000 grant and 18 months of leadership workshops. So we're real pleased with that. But more importantly with than all of her background, it's her passion that she has to see all students be u successful, but especially those that are at risk. And just to give an example of what we're looking at, instead of denying students who really want to go to the academy, uh saying that they can't because they require too many credits, recognizing that many of the situations that

014cause them to be at risk exist well before they're junior, senior in high school. So that's one thing that we're looking at. So uh and she recently saw us through which she may be addressing here also our move from hack to uh Park City so that our east campus is back in Park City again and and that was no uh easy task. That required many modifications to make the facility an education atmosphere. So we are really grateful for the extra time that she put into that this summer. So with that, this is uh Miss Amanda Griffin. >> Oh, I that was your background. Now you talk about the academy. >> Absolutely. Thank you guys for having me tonight. I'm really excited to be here. You are one of our largest sending schools. So I'm just

015excited to be here in front of you and have an opportunity to talk about what we offer your students. So Dr. Gail, you have my slides. >> There's Canva. and then my button will do the rest. I hope >> I sure do. >> Got it. Good to go. So, like I said, thank you for having us here to just give an opportunity for the rest of you to learn about what we're doing. I know Mrs. work comes back and gives you all of our information, but it's nice to put our name with a face and what we're offering for your students. So, as you know, we offer the program to 11 sending school districts, and we're currently looking to grow that. Um, we have a lot of other school districts in the area that are

016interested in including Northern Lebanon, maybe another campus. I don't know if I'm ready to take that on as soon as we just move this campus, but it's been a great opportunity. So, some of the slides I had as of September, but I wanted to keep them updated for you. So, we currently have 56 students between the two campuses. Um, and two graduates so far this year, both of them being pen manner students. Um, you also have three pending um graduates for January that are still working on their program. As of now, we have a 6% enrollment growth from a August to September already, which is huge for us. and we have 60% of enrollment met which is great. So you guys are using your seats and we are happy to serve your students. Right now

017Pen Manor has eight students and out of their 15 seats filled. One of the things that we have offered Pen Manor and any other school district looking to buy 15 seats is when you buy 15, you get that 15th one free. So again, we're looking for opportunities to help you meet the needs of your students. just kind of like the CTC where we have a benefit is you buy per seat not by per per student. So when these students that graduate, so the two you've already had and hopefully the three that will graduate in January, you don't pay additional monies to send other students there. Um those student seats are still open for you and then you enroll new students as they come available. Um we have 23 new seats, new students as of October

0183rd, which is great. Um and we have six students in the process of enrolling. So we're consistently working with Mr. Beal here um to see students that would be a good mate or a good fit. We interview them. We have them take an aptitude test and then as long as they pass that test, we invite them to enroll in our program. Um we have two new staff members as of last year and one more that was approved at this last board meeting. One you may know um Margene Long, a longtime counselor here at the high school has come to us and works part-time with us. So again knows your students already is a great person for our students to work with in our internship program and she's going to continue to help them be successful

019in our program. So we're happy to have her. Thank you. Um, besides that, we mentioned the aptitude test. We accept 95% of our students. You buy seats from us. We are not in the place to say no. We want to give every student that is struggling here at your high school or any other high school an opportunity to be successful and meet that diploma's uh requirement. Um, besides that, we have partnerships for our students that are in service learning with Career Link, Lancaster Conservancy, and Lancaster Chooses Love among many others. And that's how your students get their service learning hours. Cool. So, a little overview of our program. We were all 8 to 12 last year, but last year we ran out of seats at our east campus, which is a great problem to have.

020Um, so we opened our new campus at the Park City Mall and it has been amazing. Um, Dr. Gail was there at our opening just to see what it looks like for your students. It's very safe. Um, our doors are locked and you can only access if we let you enter because again, student safety is our number one priority. Um, that east campus opens at 9 to1 which has been a little bit more beneficial for our students who struggle to get up in time for school. Um, like I said, our students are 16 to 21. Um, and we recommend them having 10 credits, so they're not using that seat as long. However, in the interest of serving our school districts, if they have less than 10, we still accept them. Um, and just understanding that

021that will take them longer to graduate. Um, 21 credits are required to complete our program and they are required in that program and in their careers to have 100 internship hours or 55 service learning hours, which is great. Um, being at the mall has offered our students a better way to have transportation to a job. So, a lot of our students, three so far, have already secured jobs at the mall. So, they get transportation to the high school for us, and then we're able to let them go to their jobs after, which is just amazing. Um, some of our schools offer transportation. When they don't, our students are um required to find that transportation for themselves. Something we rolled out last year, which has worked phenomenally, is a no cell phone policy. I know a

022lot of school districts are doing that now and we've seen a great turnaround in their progress like Mrs. Wart said. Um we have students that are coming to us and they have great attendance but they struggle to make progress and so while we are a 4 day a week four hours a day program we are in the mind of serving our districts. So if they're not able to do it in four days we will offer them that fifth day so that we can continue to meet their needs. Um, and then we don't offer special education services. I don't have any special ed teachers. However, we had many a student who had an IEP for learning needs and can still pass our test. So, we accept them after they sign a NORAP. Um, and again, we're

023not a behavior needs school like your other alternative ed schools, but we do have students that have they're at risk, so they might have some behaviors and we just work with the school in that future initiatives we're working on. So, we just opened that new location, which has been great. Um, we're also looking at offering nights and hybrid models. We will never be a full virtual program because our students need to meet with us. That's important for our connections with them. Um, but we do have students that are pregnant and maybe need some time to be at home. So, we do offer that. Um, in January, we will offer nights for students that show great attendance because I'm not going to have teachers there when students don't show up. So if they are making that

024a priority for them, we will make it a priority to have that open. Um the expansion of our east campus already happened and being on the Red Rose line has helped a lot of our students get there in the later hours have also helped in future as we look to meet the needs of our districts. We've also toyed with the idea of offering 21, 24, and 28 credits to better align with what you're offering here at the high school. Just knowing that that means they would be there for a longer period of time. how we enroll students. So, Mr. Belel and I have a great partnership. He has a student that might not be making progress here or has a credit deficit that he thinks will do well. He knows our program. He and I

025meet every other week just to talk about what the students are doing and the progress. Um, so he'll meet with the school counselor and send me an enrollment application with their transcript so we can have an idea of how long it will take them to graduate. After that, they come and meet with me all personally with their families and we go over what the program looks like and if it will be a fit. Once they take that aptitude test, they're enrolled and we try to do that within 10 days because we know how important student attendance is for their success. Outside of that, we talked about the 21 credits. This is how it's laid out. The school to work mindset's really important for us. So part of our culture at LCA is students aren't allowed

026to swear um because we're prep we're preparing them for any job they may have. We also have the no cell phones because we don't use cell phones when we're at work and that has been really helpful. Our service learning and career internship really provides that learning environment for students to become model citizens in their jobs. Um, like I said and Donna Wart mentioned, one of our students had appreciated the program so much when that custodial program came out. She owns her own company now. She owns her own cleaning service and she was happy to come back and support us, which is just amazing. Um, students are required. We call them their shifts. They have 16 hours in a shift. If they don't have that, they have to come in on Fridays and make up those

027hours because it's important for us to see them. So that's it for me. Like I said, it's been a pleasure meeting your students and having them in our program and we look forward to the partnership going forward. >> Any questions? >> I'm just curious, uh, the 5% or so that are not accepted, is that like a behavioral thing or is that like what types of things would not be acceptable? >> Right. So we work with the districts handinand. So, if a student is a poor test taker, um we offer the test twice and after that, again, we're not in the business of saying no to our school district. So, we offer the opportunity for them to have that student count for two seats if they really want to send them. So, because we know it'll

028take more time from our teachers to meet with them. It counts as two seats instead of one. Um we've also said about sending support like an aid or whatnot, schools aren't really made for that right now with the shortages, so that's usually not an option. Um, in that point, we give it back to the schools. This is what we can do. If they choose to say, you know what, maybe it's not a good fit, then they say no. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yep. Any other questions? >> Awesome. Well, thank you so much for having me. Yeah, Amanda, I would just thank you for the work that you've done uh in and kind of pulling together the academy uh and your frequent communication with our high school principles. Uh that has been very beneficial for

029us as a district as well as for our students. uh not only is Amanda and her staff uh making sure that students are are getting what they need to be do need to be doing done, but also it gives us an opportunity to either have a counselor or somebody else speak into them as well. So that has been uh very beneficial for us. So I appreciate that extra effort. >> Yeah, thank you. I appreciate it. I love what we do. So, >> well, certainly in 12 years on the board, I've never seen something like this from the Lancaster County Academy. So, thank you for your efforts. And, you know, if you could share your trade secrets about how not to get students to swear. I I'd love to hear it. >> Just about connections for

030us. >> So, thank you guys. Have a great evening. >> Thank you. Okay, with that uh we will move to item two and we want to hear all about the act one index even though we don't have a budget >> and we don't officially have an act one index either. So but even better >> even better. >> So the act one index take a look at that this evening um as we are supposed to have the information. Um so as one of the superintendent goals is to look at the three-year strategic plan. Obviously a large part of our ongoing plan is not only since 2006 the actual index has been in place to restrict what that potential tax income could be. So, uh, one of the things to look at and, uh, and understand, uh,

031a lot of times you look at comparisons across the county, um, and well, why is that index there? Why is their tax where they are? Um, I I showed this last year, and I think it's important to remind us. Um, at this point in time, over the last 10 years, there are only four three districts in the county that are have grown. Um the other 10 have all shrank in that time. Um some of them I think school district there's about a 10% drop. So um what does that do? Well that means that the more students the more staff the more demands the more things that are happening. Um if you look here you see that I uh I have Hefield Man Township and Pen Matter there. Um and we have been over the last

03210 years the fastest growing of those three. So, it's just something to keep in mind as we look at and understand um how things start to come together as we look at next year's budget and the um the other thing that I think it's always important to to understand is what's the makeup of our district and what does it look like in comparison to our peers. Um, one of the things that you see here is that we do uh lead the county um in the percentage of our uh assessment that is homes. Um we are second uh in the county with agriculture. Um you can see that as picking some of our peers um our industrial and commercial is relatively low compared to many others and so those things uh impact it. Um I updated

033the numbers based upon July 1 and right now 70 or excuse me 62% of all assessed value in pen matter is either a homestead or a farmstead. Um, and so that means that um, obviously through the homestead program, the person lives in the home, they've applied through this county. Um, and if it's a farmstead, the individual lives on that working farm. Their residence is there or it doesn't qualify. So, uh, you may know or be aware that there are many farms that have multiple farms. It would only be the one that the the owner resides on that accounts of that. So, and that that is 70, excuse me, 62% of the assessed value. So the value of the property, not the number of properties. We talked about this uh I think we went over it

034last year, but it's good to reminder. Um the act one index is really from the p state's perspective is to say what is the need of that district based upon we'll look at it the market value based upon income levels. Um, and so the higher the need, the higher the adjusted index. Um, and so it's sort of counterintuitive because you may say, well, the the higher the need, it may be that that population has less capacity for the increase. They're not looking at capacity, looking at what is the need, what is the programmatic need of that district um, as far as its tax base and where things are at. So view that. Couple things that they look at to come to this adjusted index is they look at market value. So what what are the

035market value? What is a property worth in the district? And then they also look at personal income across the district. And so they t come up with a ratio um and that then represents relative wealth. So when you look at us right now, we are 209 out of 500. So we're in the the top half as far as relative wealth across the state, right? So 208 districts are more wealthy from a market value of personal income. Um 300 or almost 300 are less wealthy. Interestingly enough, when you then hone into the county, we are 14th, right? So now that what does that mean? That means that there's only two other districts that have a higher ratio than we do, right? Two other districts, right? So, what's going to drive the ratio? Either a low market

036value or a low personal income, right? Depending on the ratio, how that, right? So, if I have a high market value and a low personal income, that makes the ratio go higher, right? All the ratios are less than one. And so, the personal income uh is bribes the that ratio. So, we are in a position where there are only two districts in the county that have a higher market ratio, will potentially have a higher adjusted act one index, potentially have more need um for the revenue than we do. Take a look at what has happened over the last number of years. Um, a lot on here. We'll start off with the green line, right? So the green line has been the state um act one index. You can see that uh for much of the

037first uh four or five years it was right around 2% through COVID that escalated. It's a it comes from a three-year rolling average calculation. Um you see that it peaked in 2425 um and then has started to tail off. At this point in time the state index is 3.5 for next year. By my calculations pen matters will be 4.5 but that has not been confirmed yet uh from the state and that's the red line. The blue line um is what our actual tax increase has been each of those corresponding years. Um you those of you who are familiar and recognize that those uh higher points in 161 17 181 19 were all when the district sought exceptions. They were above uh what the index was. Um there were situations conditions that existed then that don't

038exist today. Um and so the likelihood of exceptions is much less. And then the yellow line sort of rolls out. Hey, what when I take your five-year average, I try and smooth a little bit. What does that look like? And you can see that we have our average has spent um most of the time between the four and the 2% um along and through that. Um our 5-year average is 2.4. You can see that the PTE statewide average over those same five years was 4.1 and Pen Matters adjusted was 5.2. Over the last 10 years, uh, Pen Matters average has been 3.1. The the statewide uh average is 3.3 and the adjusted has been 4.2. So we've remained below the state act one as well as the pen matter uh adjusted act one over the

039last uh five and 10 years. So I put expected here. So on the 1st of September the state is supposed to release the act one index. On the 30th of September the Pennsylvania department of education is to release the adjusted indexes. This is currently October 6th. Having checked the website just before the meeting started, it is still not there. Um, so I was using the calculations to the best of knowledge that we have at this time and I anticipate it being 4.5. Um, we'll see when that comes through. Um, I wouldn't expect it any different than 44 to 46. So I I think we're pretty close there. Uh but that does give you uh an understanding of what I expect our cap to be. What does that look like with regard to impact? Um and

040so you'll see that a revenue generated off our current uh assessment as well as our current millillage. Uh you see that 3.5 results in about $2.2 million. 4.5 results in about $2.8 million. And that's all based upon uh the county assessment as of September of 2025. So our most recent numbers looking at that assessment. Um what comes next? Uh fortunately have a little time. Hopefully they get the index down. We'll have some discussions in November about where I have some assumptions based on where 26 27 is. Uh we'll roll that into the future years and see what the impact is. And then the board will have to make a decision on the first meeting in December as to whether they will seek to exceed the act one adjusted index or remain within the act one

041adjusted index. And so we'll nail that down. We'll see where that is. Um if you seek to uh to have a proposed budget, a preliminary budget and go above the index, that doesn't mean that you have to do that. It just opens up that potential opportunity. So it will be the board's determination decision as to whether 4.5 they believe is good or we need more than 4.5 questions. Kind of hoping we don't need 4.5 at all. >> I'm not hoping. >> But that number that number is just a So we can go anywhere if 4.5 is the number >> you can go anywhere from zero to 4.5. 4.5 >> without an exception. >> I don't know why we would need one. >> I don't I wouldn't think we did. Yes, sir. >> Could you refresh

042our memory? I know there the exceptions are very limited. Could you refresh our memory as to >> So there there were three exceptions. The first one was when the peasers rate was escalating rapidly. I think a couple years the peasers rate went up two to four percent per year. You could seek an exception because of that rapidly rising pasers rate. At this point peasers is pretty well stable at 3.4 or.34. So that is out. Um the second one was and remember this went into play in 2006. There was some constraints based upon borrowing and bonds that occurred prior to 2006. I don't know anyone who still has a bond from that time frame that hasn't um hasn't reinvested it, right? Or or taken it and reissued it. Um I would say that if the district

043still has a bond from them and for some reason they didn't take advantage of those like sub 2% time frames, they probably have bigger problems than that. So that really is gone away. So then the third one that really exists is looking at an average growth and I think it's a two-year average in special education costs. Um and so that is a possibility. You have to run through and look at the calculations. And so uh I would say that potentially with some of our special ed escalation the last few years that might be a possibility. Um and so we could look at that if that's something the board desires. >> Wasn't there Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. I know you were putting your hand. Wasn't there once one on transportation? An exception? >> It might

044have been early on, but not not recently. >> Donna's dating herself again. >> Thanks. Thank you. >> I want to ask about the market value, personal income ratio. >> So that chart is as of a date or as of a point in time, >> right? When you say we're 14 out of 16, >> correct? >> And we're 209 out of 500. >> Correct. Can you um inform me a little bit like how much how has that changed in recent years if at all? >> So I think if you >> and how much and and again how much difference is there between us and our neighboring districts? Is it is it pretty similar? Is it and are we changing at a faster rate? Like are we losing ground? So can you give me a little context?

045So we we lost ground on both, right? So last year we were 13 out of 16. So we dropped um it it would appear. So you look at the market value component and then you can look at also the personal wealth component. Um our market value and and so what they try to do is they try to look at market value relative to your enrollment, right? Because you can't just look at a market value and say, "Well, this district's hu," you know, so our market value to our enrollment is ve within uh thousandth of a point of the person above us. So, it's very close on market value to students. Our personal income to students is off by 300s of a point which is the whole range um goes from 0.1 to 7. Um so

046we're close there but we dropped on our personal income uh comparison to the other district and so that's why we dropped into 14th place. >> And so you have enough to tell us how much that's changed in the past five years. We've been in that 13th or 14th spot probably as long as the index has existed. So, and every year I ask for clarification on this because I it's mind-numbing to me, but the act one index or the the amount that we can tax is the less wealthy the district is, the more they're allowed to tax their citizens, right? Is that accurate? It's like counterintuitive, right? >> It goes back to the the whole premise is that what act one went into place is it was preventing wealthy districts from raising the taxes. >> Right.

047situation one and two and then the other two >> Pfield is 10 township is six >> out of the 16 >> who's one just for curiosity >> Pway Valley >> Pegway Valley. Okay, now that makes sense. >> Thank you. >> So, uh question um with the projected development coming in, how do you see that affecting our act one index in the next? I I think that it will make I expect it to drive the market value up. Right. The question is >> does the personal income go faster or slower. >> Right. So if the market value goes up quicker then our index would get lower which would further restrict the index. >> Right? And so if you look at it intuitively, you would say, well, if I have a $700,000 house that gets added, there

048clearly has to be a higher personal income that's driving that. And so I would say that if we had higher priced housing, it's probably going to lower um our difference right now. So that 1% difference I think will probably get smaller which will further restrict what what the tax increase will be >> what we're able to do with the developments coming in. >> Correct. >> Thank you. >> So that also is why we've talked and and talked a lot and it's a great question. The more we need the longer we go the more restricted we're going to get in all likelihood. Although in theory with the amount of 55 plus we're anticipating wouldn't the income >> it depends on when it comes in. >> Okay. Because >> theoretically in a 55 plus community you have

049people who are retired which means a lower income threshold in theory >> depending on what the price point is of the homes. >> Right. Theoretically. >> Right. >> Are there other questions? Okay, thank you. >> Thank you. Move to item three, financial and HR software search. Mr. Risinger and Mr. For >> Thankfully, the math for this I think is a lot easier, Dan. Right. This is This is pretty straightforward. >> Doesn't hinge on. >> Yeah, if you go >> getting the jobs done on time. >> Don't fly over, guys. I'm going to go back to July of this year. Then we're going to go way back to 1994. In July of this year, I brought up that we were looking at a pretty large business office software search. That was one of our projects that

050we'll be spinning up this year and into next year. Uh, so we are there. But before I talk about the details, I want to go back to what I think is 1994. And I had to go back to Chris Johnston to try to get verification on this. But I think that our first AS400 system entered Pin Manor School District in 1994. And if you're not familiar with an AS400, AS400 is an old old school green screen style system that if you um how would I describe this? If you've seen the movie The Matrix or any film from 1920, no, that's probably too far back. But it was quite an ancient ancient system. Yeah, hackers. There we go. Thank you. That's good. Uh but that was the initial uh platform system computer big database that was

051sitting I think in the district office in 1994ish well after I graduated and that was our first financial software package that stayed in place when I joined the district in '98. The 10X system running the AS400 Phil smiling he remembers the green screen because you used to do scheduling in that green screen right because that was running our student information system. Anyway, that system was online and in place and in use for financial and HR reporting and payroll and processing up until the mid 2000s when we began in 2007 a migration to the platform that we've been running since then by a company called Tyler Technologies out of Texas. The software itself is called Munis. That's the name of the software. Munis has been running our payroll, our financial systems now since essentially 2009 when

052we finished the migration. On top of that is another software platform that we use for purchasing for purchase orders, requisitions. That's called ECOM mall and that's where we have been now for well over a decade. You'll notice the three dots dot dot dot. I wouldn't be here tonight talking to you if we haven't had significant challenges with the Tyler Munis platform over the past several years. Uh we have been faced now for quite some time with a system that has been very stagnant, beyond stagnant. Uh there have been minimal investments by Tyler on this platform. We continue to hit rocks and run ashore when it comes to working with their tech support. uh really been it's been a an incredible challenge for us to continue to work with this software package. It's been on some

053of our radars now for a while to begin the review of looking for a new finance system. We had some relatively large projects though that uh delayed this in earnest. For example, the high school project which which really required a ton of attention. But again, fast forward to now. We have Dan on board. We have Courtney on board for HR and we're in a position to really tackle this. And long story short, I probably should have led with this, spoiler alert, is that we are confident that in this search with the system we're going to be recommending, we're going to get a far better system and we're going to spend a lot less money in the long run. So, that's really the spoiler. Dan, I don't know if you want to add at all to

054that. >> We can wait till we get to that. >> Till we get to that part. Okay, more to come. So uh just really really quickly to give you a sense of the financial packages that are out there. Tyler is our current core system. There are two other vendors that have large market share in Pennsylvania. One is CSIU that is literally the uh Central Sescuana Intermediate Unit that for a 20-year period 20 years easily has written and supported their own financial software package. They're a very strong player in Pennsylvania. The other very strong player is a company called Skyward that is also in use by a number of districts locally and across Pennsylvania. So really in essence narrowed our search to these two companies because they are established. They are large enough to handle a

055district like Pen Manor. They have solid state reporting which is obviously beyond making sure that our employees get paid. we need to make sure that we can be compliant with all the reporting that's required for public schools. So, we narrowed the search to those two. Uh they are both very good systems. They're used by many districts in various ways. They're different in different ways. For Pen Manor, though, it became apparent uh even really from the first from the first demo. Um, and I should say just kind of surprising, we sort of went into the discussion thinking that CSIU was the vendor that was really going to be the vendor to beat. But the more that we looked at this system called Skyward, we were pretty stunned by by what we saw. And it quickly developed

056into a situation where when you start to see the features that this system has, you can't unsee those things and you start to get a little bit jealous about what you currently don't have in terms of the software capabilities. So the list of capabilities is quite long. What we found is that the Skyward platform is a truly integrated system unlike what we have now. That means that data flows from HR to finance to payroll to purchasing in a way that just is not happening with our current platform. So what does that mean? It means our folks can be more efficient. They can spend less time in the software. That's a huge advantage. Obviously something that we don't have currently in our system is detailed position control. Skyler Skyward has a beautiful system to manage our

057employees. You know, the history with the district, the positions that they've had. It's pretty complicated in a public school when we have, you know, not only classified staff, but you know, many different classifications of staff from teachers to other types of employees and making sure that we can properly account for their years of service, uh, for payroll and all the things that go into that. Uh Dan, what did I miss? I know you can speak at length about just the position control capabilities. >> It it really we are relying a lot upon spreadsheet upon spreadsheet. >> Um and uh we dump a lot of things out of our current system in a spreadsheet and manipulate them in spreadsheets. And so um this allows us to do that inside the system and ensure that we are

058tracking, controlling, integrating um all all of my budget development and projecting is all in a spreadsheet. None of it's in the system. Whereas when we looked at Tyler, all of it is in the system. None of it is in the spreadsheet. And so it really gives them access to everybody to to bring other users in to uh to do that moving forward. >> Yeah, I have to give the the folks in the business office a lot of credit because they did a lot with limited capabilities in Tyler for so long. Skyward is far more customizable. We've hit roadblocks working with Tyler support over the years and trying to customize based on what we need at Pin Manor. Something I like a lot about this is that we'll still have access to the core database. My

059team does a lot of reporting, a lot of ET, a lot of data movement back and forth between the core system and also, you know, our employee system. So, that's really important to us. Uh, one of the key functions here is that we've had to rely on East School Malls the separate procurement and purchasing package. That's a separate fee that we pay to have a separate module for purchasing. Skyward has a very slick integrated purchasing system. Again, it's all part of that sort of just the system is all together and everything is roundroin inside the system. It creates more efficiency. And you know, another key piece for us, I I'll speak to the PIMS report and I know many of you have heard me talk about this before. The Pennsylvania information management system is the

060master database of all the reporting that that we do. Sort of the cycle actually doesn't let up. The big one is October one. This is all of our required compliance reporting that tracks every move essentially that our employee, our teachers and our students make through the system. We are not able to get functional staff reports out of our current system to feed into the Commonwealth's PIN system. I've spent a lot of time looking at Skyward system and it will give us functional reports which is a big step forward for us. >> And Dan, I don't know if you want to speak more about just the the financial pieces as well. One of the things between PIMS and the financial reporting we have to do every year um every year more data is requested um and

061nothing ever goes away and so we don't currently have the ability in our system to upload uh the financial reports we have to again download them into Excel upload them in Skyward stays as you can see the list of Charlie very integrated as a national company but with a large Pennsylvania presence that makes sure that we're compliant that when things change at PTE, they're updating the software to get those reports and systems out. >> Yeah, I think that covers it. So, that's a listing. Uh there won't be a test on this. On the left hand side, we have the core business functions. on the right hand side. Uh there's some data security compliance things that I we could go into that as much as you'd like, but I have assurances with Skyward that I don't

062necessarily have with Tyler, which makes me sleep a lot better at night. One of the I'm not going to go down and just recite every single one of these. But something that's been on my radar for quite a long time is to have an improved and modern in the year 2025 employee portal for our staff internally. Currently, we don't have this with Tyler. So, what does an employee portal do for you? Well, if you just want to simply go in and download your past time sheets. Well, we don't have a functional way to produce that for employees. You kind of look at me like, really? I'm like, yeah, really, we don't have that right now. Um, Skyward will actually give us a functional portal. Some of the interesting pieces that it has is the ability

063for us to set up form workflows inside that system as well. So on my radar will be reimbursements and you know reimbursements that we do for our employees. Well, that's a it's not a paper process, but it's a process that happens outside of our core system. As you can guess, that gets really inefficient. So, we're looking to bake those functions into the employee portal for Skyward. Oh, they have a mobile app. We don't have a mobile app right now. So, the list just goes on and on with the advantages of moving to this platform. >> Anything you want to add, Dan? >> No. >> Thanks. Yeah, >> I talked about the reports. So, let's talk about the costs. So, we're looking at this over the over what is essentially a four-year period. And again, long

064story short is we really have two options here. We could move to Tyler's hosted solution for Munis. That's the company's remedy for some of our problems. I don't buy that remedy in totality. Um, but if we were to follow through with that and move to their hosted platform, we would be incurring about $116,000 in costs. So that is the core Tyler package to move to hosted. And on top of that, we'd be paying for East School Mall. Well, funny thing here, if we were to move and do an implementation, the upfront implementation for Skyward is about $160,000. The whole calculation gets much more interesting though when you look at the differences in the annual. So if we were just looking at current with Tyler, we're at about $81,000 a year is what we're paying for

065Tyler Technologies. Once we get past that four-year uh buy or that payback from the implementation, that cost drops dramatically. The key takeaway here is that Skyward annually is dramatically less expensive than what Tyler is. Considering we don't move systems for 10, 15, maybe even 20 years, um those numbers are going to add up pretty quickly. What did I miss on that, Dan? >> No, I mean that's the big thing. It's that it's and I think part of the upfront cost with them is is really trying to get our data over. >> Yeah. >> Um and get us there's pretty extensive training that they've laid out. It's a it's a ninemonth plus process. >> Yes. >> Um and so a lot of training for my staff, myself through human resources, uh the the charts laid out

066there and um having talked to a number of their current customers, a number that have changed recently, um they they seem to know how to get our data in a good place and have us knowledgeable in how to use it. Yeah, we would be looking at, you know, assuming we'll we'll be requesting we put this for placement for next month, but assuming a vote next month, we would be looking at a little under a year implementation. This is a big left. I mean, that no doubt about it, this is one of the largest software implementations that a school district can do. It's pretty much right behind a a student information system. So, this will be a big deal and it it does have a long runway to get us there. Um, but we feel confident

067that they are large enough to have the support. They have a a really good project plan to get us there. Um, and just a quick note, we did speak with local districts that sung the praises. You know, again, we went into this thinking that we were going to go a completely different way with the software with a different platform, but um, you know, in particular, Springrove and Konosoga Valley really helped to helped to just solidify that we were making a really strong decision. So, that's a lot of information and detail. Um, we would be I don't have the final contract yet. It's uh Ronda Lord from uh Saxon Stump has already reviewed it with me from our side. It's back over to Skyward now for their redline changes. Uh we would be looking to come

068back at you with final vote on this in November. And of course, happy to answer questions. >> Uh I don't really have a question, more more so a comment. uh you can see the savings. I mean, but I think what you can't really see or quantify is you're going to even be saving more than that in like the manh hours and the streamlined and so I mean I I think it's a great idea necessary with what we have. >> Yeah. >> Um two questions. the implementation plan. Is there a um you have built in time for dual systems? So verify code and see that up there. >> Yes. >> Um assume you did. >> But then the other question was um when you uh talked to Redline, it seemed like they were the only ones

069that went from Guinness to this or Tyler. Um >> what what I mean were they did they do that well? Did do that well? Did they many issues. Um the other ones I guess didn't come from Tyler to this. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I mean, so they were able to execute pretty well then. >> Yeah. I've I've had um I think what I gleaned the most was was talking with Skyler Sky doing that. Um it's one of my cousins. So Skyward I make sure I don't do that. Um, Skyward has experience has has done multiple district implementations and they understand how to take a Tyler database and how to get it into their system >> and I feel very comfortable in that discussion that they're not going to have an issue with getting our data

070out. Yeah. Yeah. what when we looked at the >> at the other vendor it was a much shorter implementation >> and so we even >> tried to push >> Skyward to say can't we and they're like sure you can but we believe successfully >> this is the best way to do it. >> Yeah. And I I want to be careful because I want to be respectful of the other vendor as well. >> I'll say this plainly. They would not have brought over data as as we needed it to do that implementation. It' be a very different experience. Again, system is strong in different ways, but a data migration was not one of those ways. We need a data migration. >> Good question. >> Yeah, absolutely. And to your first question, yes, this doesn't have that

071level of detail. This is a super high level, but yeah, we'll be running parallel to be able to hit that October. So, I just wanted to clarify. Thank you. >> Yep. >> Just want to say thank you for taking the time to look into this and look at the cost savings. Um, I know that's something that I feel like I've been a resounding gong about for the last couple of years. So, I just wanted to say thank you and I appreciate that because I know that this was probably tedious and uh frustrating at times. So, I appreciate your time and effort on this. >> Thanks. Thank you. Charlie does have a kind of an executive sess uh summary in the board docs in the board information folder I should say if any of you really

072want to glean more from it. >> It's a very stimulating read. >> Bedtime read. >> Absolutely. >> Any other questions for Mr. Risinger? If not, I am happy to entertain a motion for this to be placed on our November 3rd agenda. >> So move. >> Thank you. A second. >> Second. >> Thank you. Any further comment or question? All those in favor? >> Eight affirmative votes. >> Thank you very much. And Dr. Gail, we will move to item four in the facilities presentation. >> Yes. Thank you. >> Sounds fantastic. Uh I don't know if I'll be able to top that last presentation. >> Well, we went from saving money to spending money. >> Yeah. >> Uh first, uh and foremost, I think when we talk about facilities, obviously this is where we do our work.

073Uh you know, we work with our students in the schools, outside the schools, but really the the learning, the crux of our learning does take place in the classrooms. and we want to make sure that we continue to provide uh facilities that will enable our students to to achieve and to do well. Uh but I would also like to thank uh our facilities committee a number of meetings Mr. Napsinger who became the chair uh Mr. Straw, Mr. Her and Mr. Beak stepped in here towards the end and I know many of you uh attended as well as Mr. Jackson. Um so appreciate the work that was put into this. uh this is a major consideration because of the the scope and the the time but also the the cost of what we're talking about in

074terms of our facilities. So really over the past year we've been doing our evaluation working with uh Larry Lovado and Crabtree uh looking at different options of where do we go and I think right now we're at a place where we're ready to make a recommendation and in this case this is not a final recommendation uh nothing that the board needs to vote on but really just giving us general direction is this the way we want to go. So, as we look uh in looking at our facilities, you know, with 10 schools, we do have what would be considered a renovation cycle. Uh if you take a look at these uh buildings in in the cycle, uh our last renovation really was Manor Middle School, and we don't call that a renovation because it was

075new construction. Uh so 9293 94 would have been when Manor Middle School was opened, uh put into play. Uh fortunately over those 30 some years uh we've had to do very little work in terms of uh upgrades or uh repairs to Matter Middle School. Uh there have been some obviously with a building that has close to 500 students coming in on a day-to-day basis, but yet at the same time uh for the most part it has held. So really as we talk about finishing the high school, which we did a couple years ago, getting back into our renovation cycle, Matter Middle is the one that we would be taking a look at, but then working down through that list, Lee Tour, Echelman, uh those two schools were renovated almost simultaneously right after each other uh

076and then more into the south of the district. Part of the reason why we are talking about this is what are our current factors that we're looking at uh in terms of our student population where uh and then also our facilities, our current facilities. We've talked about this over the last couple of years and we've seen the migration of our student population uh moving into the northern part of our district. Again, just as a point of reference, when I started in 2000 in the district, Martik Elementary was our third largest elementary school. It was close behind uh Central Manor and Hambrite at the time. It's now our smallest elementary by by enrollment. Uh has nothing to do with who lives down in that area. Uh but there's just not as many students. Um, and we

077we've gradually seen that progression of of where we've had to work with in certain areas of uh swing areas. Uh, if you look at the map on the right hand side, kind of the Willow Street uh area has really become that swing area that we've been able to use to move uh students to different elementary schools so that we could keep that growth. But right now uh really if you just south of uh Millersville Burrow uh where Millersville Burough and Manor Township make the transition into Konosoga Township, Peekway Township, 66% of our students live in Millersville Burough or Manor Township. Uh so that means that that impacts our four northern elementary schools plus Manor Middle School and obviously the high school as as the final place that students would be going. So that's a significant

078consideration as we look at what are our projects and do we have the room the capacity uh to take that in place as we've talked about probably for the last three years uh in our schools we are out of space uh the increase in population in the north our attendance boundaries have been stretched and this is one of the aspects of of one of the superintendent goals uh you know what will impact of this have and what will this what will take place Um, our middle schools do have the largest class sizes across the district. Uh, but what we're really seeing is the limitations in terms of space is impacting the programs, not what programs we offer, but how we deliver them. Uh, some of the elementary schools, uh, we are utilizing places that, uh,

079would be typically a, uh, an office or even in the hallways for some of our programming. Uh we some of our partnerships that we have with programs that provide before and after school care or during the day uh we have them in places that are uh used in multiple multiple ways. Uh you know at central matter our before and after school program or w is on the stage in the gymnasium cafeteria. So that area is not only being used for the gym, it's used for the cafeteria for breakfast and for lunch and then this additional program. Another significant impact that this has had is that uh a lot of the the programs that we are uh partnering with the IU to run, we have to be very strategic not only in what programs do we

080have, but also where do we have them? And currently we're in a position where if we were to add another elementary IU run program, we would have to displace some of our classrooms. That becomes a hard situation uh because we want to make sure that we provide the correct environment for those programs to operate. But then also which do we service in terms of our in terms of our schools and I mentioned the support service areas places as we've worked on what are we doing with how we're how we're servicing our students those small groupoup uh intensive sessions the uh the ESL program or AS program that's happening at the elementary and middle school programs a lot of those are service are being held in in in small areas that are that are either grossly

081undersized or really not intended for that service. And then finally, uh with the exception of what we've been able to do at PCway, when we've had a large class go through, we have not been able to add that additional classroom to that grade level to offset the class size simply from the fact it's not the teacher, it's the physical space. we in in now in all of our elementary schools, we don't have an an open classroom. So to put in an extra third grade class or fourth grade class as that bubble class goes through, it's not capable for us. So when we say we're out of space, we mean it. We are literally out of space. So part of that is also leading to, you know, as we look at our facilities, what are some

082of those areas that we do need to make sure that we are including? Uh, a good example of what we're talking about is Hambrite Elementary. I throw this out there all the time. How old's Hambrite? Our new elementary school. It's 11 years old, 12 years old. Now, uh, when it was built, it was built with additional capacity. We moved into the into the building. There were three classes per grade level. That quickly became four. So, now we don't have any in and including the the additional supports programs that we have there. we don't have space even in our new elementary school. So that's a considerable factor of when we look at not only our age of our buildings but also the space in terms of what we do have. And then of course as we

083talk uh this is an example of what we were talking about with Echelon Elementary School. Uh no room for growth even in spite of our some of our grades are are our pretty large classes. Our support spaces, collaboration spaces, lack of flexibility. And then this is one that uh kind of uh leads us to thinking about the overall condition of our facilities. Uh the lack of toilets. We have three basically to toilet rooms in in the school of this size. Uh Eselman built was small but as population has increased it's been there. So that creates a whole different level of scheduling for our teachers and principles of just when are we having students go use the facilities literally the facilities. Uh so the other part of this so we have our age our lack of

084space and then what is coming you know uh while all these developments are not uh we we don't know where they'll be when they or you know have an idea of where they'll be when they will come what will be the impact on it you know at some point these areas will be developed and when you look at them just to give you an idea if you look at it on a map uh you can see you know pretty much that it's in the Manor Township Millersville Burough and where our schools are. You have Echelman, you have the Manor Hambrite campus. Uh we didn't couldn't fit Lee Tour and Central Manor on that map, but they're all right in that in that area where we need to be looking at our northern schools. So, as

085a committee, we've been discussing this and really what our plan for this is is to start and it's a multi-phase plan is to start with a new middle school which will then lead us into elementary schools and then all along we need to be considering looking at our facilities at Comet Field as well as our fields in and on our other campuses. So really as we talk uh this is kind of the timeline that we've laid out and you can see this is a multi-phase uh simultaneous in some cases but one leading into the other. Uh the idea would be to uh build a new middle school at uh the Hambrite Manor campus uh on the fields that are to the west of Hambrite. You ask why would we start with a middle school? Well,

086we know our current population in grades three, four, five, and those are large grades. And any additional enrollment that we would have in those grades, that's going to lead into our middle school. And like I mentioned to begin, Manor Middle is our oldest school uh that has not had a significant renovation to it. Uh but it also then provides us with that flexibility as we move into our other projects. Esman Elementary School is would be our next school that we would be looking at. And while we're doing the design and development for for the middle school, we would also start to begin to consider make considerations of what the Estelman Elementary School would look like. So that while the construction is taking place of the new middle school, Echelman would be in the planning stages.

087Once that construction would be finished at the middle school, then the idea would be to move the students and the faculty from Echelman over to the the existing manor building and use that as a as a holding place as a as a kind of a transition swing area. And then once Echelman is finished and simultaneously would be looking at what's our next project. Is that a lead tour renovation? Is that a central manner renovation? and so forth. As we continue to move through, at some point we would make a decision uh probably well after majority of us would be no longer be here. What do we do with the existing middle school that we currently have? Does that become an eighth elementary school? Does it replace one of our elementary schools? Uh but yet at

088the same time, we would still have that flexibility. All that said, uh the thing that we cannot forget about is our athletic uh and and other areas of our district. I mentioned common field. That's something that we need to be looking at uh the athletic fields that we have at our other schools. Are there upgrades that we need to make uh as we continue to work with our community organizations in providing those uh areas for our students and residents of the district to continue to utilize. Uh well as well as the the fieldhouse over at Comet Field, the turf field, do we use that? Do we go to grass? Do we you know all those different aspects? Uh Mr. Fory and I recently met with Mr. Lovado from Crabtree and uh Jim forgot his last

089name. Hawker uh from Durk and Edson uh who who has been our civil engineer in our projects and uh he their their business they do a lot of the athletics uh in other places as well. So kind of doing a field analysis as well as looking at what are some solutions as we move forward. This is kind of the layout. Now it's just it's it's a schematic. It's a very rough schematic of what we would be looking at, but you can see the blue would and that's that's not the necessarily the the shape and design. It's I some spacecraft or whatever. I'm not a Star Wars or Star Trek. I don't know. But it would be location would be uh close to uh Charles Town Road there uh off off of uh Hambrite. And then

090uh it would mean that we would displace some of the new sock newer soccer fields. That area that's kind of to the bottom of the uh of the slide there. There's a there is a waterway the a drainage basin that runs through there. So that we wouldn't be able to make it just a a contiguous uh movement there. But we would we do have that land that is available where we you know may be a place where we relocate some fields and and get into that. The other factor that we do need to keep in mind is the Hurfield is the not the Hurfield uh the um Fiser farm. Sorry, got ahead of myself. The Fiser farm and what do we do with that property as well? Currently, the there is a separate deed for

091that property. Uh and with the preliminary sketch, we would need to use some of that land to accommodate the middle school. So, we would have to do some reding of those properties. And at that time is that a case when we do make a decision about the Fiser farm and the properties. So really as we begin to look at this kind of a tenative sketch uh throughout the remaining parts of this school year we would get into design development and really begin to build and and develop the the process. uh at some point in there uh in 26 we would get to the point where land development has happened all the different steps have taken place and the school board at that time would be making the ultimate decision through our act 34 hearing that

092this is the direction that we want to go with the hopes of in January uh or March of 2027 that we would go to bid and then construction would start and then really to start the 2028 uh school year 2828 2829 school year, we would be moving into the new middle school and then beginning our project at Echelman in that in that that year as well. Lot of things still to be determined, but it's hard to believe when we look at this and and when uh we pulled this slide out, I said, "Well, why are we looking at these young kids?" Well, they're the ones that will be ultimately uh moving through this. Very similar picture of that when we looked at the high school and started nine years before the final completion. We had

093third graders and they were the ones that were graduating. So again, preparing looking into the future about what are how are we going to service and help our kids uh through this process. Questions at this point? I think really what we're looking for, Dr. Fullerton is this is the direction that we are looking to go begin to continue with our design development working with the architects. Obviously, a lot of information has to be developed. A lot of information has to be shared and and you know coming to the board, but is this a direction tenatively we looking to go? >> Mr. Beaks, I saw you were ready to ask. >> You can read my face, huh? >> Yes. Yes. Don't play poker. I yeah they don't uh two quick questions. One I you may not

094know this at the time but right now the um if we have to bump into the Fiser farm a little bit with the um the compost piles there is there going to be any changes with the township we need to or is that we don't know how far yet with the closeness to the building and all those regulations? >> Yeah, too early to tell. We'd have to look at it and and you know, is that something that we continue to we have a lease there with the township, but is it something that continues or is it something that is is changed ultimately as we look at that entire property there? >> Right. Okay. And then the other question that I have is with all of the development, we have a lot of whatifs and the

095airs with the developments coming in, etc. impact of the school district, but we can't wait till things happen to then decide what to do. >> Um, what is our projection on new seats needed for elementary, middle, and it sounds like a high school has been prepared for what? >> But what what what number of seats do we need for our elementary students and middle school students? Yeah, again we do although plan con doesn't ex exist but it doesn't the monies don't come back. So there are certain limitations that we can and can't build too like we can't we can't build a a school that would a thou hold a thousand students knowing that our enrollments would only be 500. >> So we will have to work off of off some of those projections both both

096from what we're able to put together but then also ultimately what PTE is saying. The idea for the new middle school would be to expand that so that we can at least add an additional team per grade level. So we're talking five classes, 25 or so students. So really increasing the capacity by about 250 students. >> Okay. And then that's that's where then as things continue to develop in the in the district. All right. What's that mean for Ashelman? What's that mean for Lee Tour or Central Manor? You know, in terms of the size, we know we have to do something with Echelman. Are we increasing the size? And to what extent would we increase that size to when we do the renovation? Or does it stay a two per grade level with additional supporting

097areas? >> So, right now, we we're not even putting a number to what we think we're going to need with the proposed developments. >> I'd be really reluctant to. Uh I think we can we can make some speculations and we have asked Crabtree to work with um drawing his blank on his name former superintendent. >> They use not only insight but they have their own consultant. The other thing to recognize is that in that 28 29, not only do we have capacity immediately at the middle level, but we also have significant capacity now at Old Manor Middle versus what we have at Echelman. So the reality is is we will expand capacity at the middle school and elementary level that'll be ready for 2829. >> Correct. And that's kind of what I'm getting at is

098to what do we really need to do? Which is why it nice to if we could have some sort of wag or what we're projecting, >> right? >> That's part of the design development that we'll go through. >> Okay. I do think it's one of the reason one of the things we talked at um at facilities and this was a while back probably like six months ago was one of the challenges that there's some of these developments that are still really just a thought. >> Um there's been no approval from township like from Manor Township for um two farms that are supposedly under agreement with a builder yet there. I mean there's nothing there. So it's hard to project when that development might not happen or it might happen 20 years from now. But I

099mean I think as a facilities committee that was something we we kind of talked through a while ago and which not everybody was on the committee at that time. So, um, but I think that's important to remember as we move forward is we have to in some ways make decisions somewhat like the budget situation, um, where other people haven't done their part of the job yet, but we're trying to make a an educated guess on how many kids we're going to be educating 10 years from now. >> And I think, you know, Dr. Gail showed you that cascading, right? The reality is at this point in time, we are recommending starting design on the middle school. We fully anticipate that we're going to go right into Echelon and then it just gets cloudier like it

100may look like that. It may look different depending on how that buildout happens, when it happens, right? Do we what knowledge do we have at the time? Right? But part of laying this out is trying to say, okay, where where do we at least have a plan so that we can adjust that plan as we go. >> It's certainly going to be substantial increase in the northern end, >> right? >> Don't know exactly when or how much, but and the flexibility of the middle school as an elementary school, the existing middle school is is is perfect for that unknown, >> right? I mean, we haven't walked through it all, but in all likelihood, you could potentially double Echelon by just putting it in the existing middle school. >> Sorry, Mr. Fory. I think I heard

101you say the plan is now to go right from the middle school and roll right into Echelon because when we looked at this, I think in July, the plan was more like middle school and roll into Echelman almost a full year. out to start that in the third quarter at 29 for in terms of construction. >> They were always pretty tight like this. >> So one opened a year after >> it was it was a year later to start construction for Echelman and then in we looked at it in July we were starting Leetor in 31 for construction. So this what I just heard was middle school right to echelon and then it's muddier but >> correct >> am am I to understand that we are pulling forward both the construction of echelon and the

102next project >> I I don't think we know yet >> well I just heard you say we're going to roll right into the planning of Echelon and that feels like we're pulling it forward and based off of based off of some of some of of the things you know in terms of the condition of Echelman like we are looking at really having to heighten that that project. Um now the the capacity is is is there now but really it's the the current conditions of >> I I would I would agree. I'm no facilities expert but that needs some TLC for sure. But I guess my concern is are we tying this back to we talked about different models of debt and I think one of the models was $138 million over 5 years but that

103was based upon a middle school and then starting Echelman in 2029 and now it looks like we're going to try to start Echelman on this chart in the second quarter of 2028. Are we also pulling forward the need for additional debt? What is it? Whatever it's going to be $50 million and maybe do it in two tranches, but are we are we effectively pulling forward the need for additional debt by 12 months or and then again in July there was only three projects in addition to the athletic fields and the minor ones. There was only this says Echelman, Next Elementary, Next Elementary. Is there >> yeah once once we get to once we get through the middle school and echelman we'll have to do an evaluation or as we're doing echelman like for me to

104say this is what we have to do I can say we need to do the middle school and we need to do echelin >> okay >> post that that'll that we'll have to do an evaluation of what our current conditions are of the other buildings and then also what's our enrollment >> Dr. G is it safe to say I mean I know we've talked before in renovation cycles so that third and fourth elementary school evaluation is really just looking at continuing a cycle >> versus if you look back historically um there's been kind of some large gaps which in my opinion is what's led us to having what I would call some urgent needs that maybe because we if we wouldn't have had those gaps we wouldn't be here today. >> I I might be

105able to help with >> but like So, do you see what I'm saying? That like that three and four isn't necessarily that we're doing it like it's a done deal. It's putting it in line with creating a renovation cycle that's fiscally responsible and making sure that our buildings continue to function moving forward. Because I think without putting some of our predecessors on the spot, we got really caught up in a high school renovation and some things kind of got missed. Maybe >> that was a big part of the intent. So I have to take credit and blame for the construction of that slide. >> So if you can go so first we actually started the discussion trying to actually right there >> that that was kind of in the back of our heads. We want

106everybody understand there's a cycle and I was trying to represent that in the slide saying that there will be another and another. So that's exactly your point Nikki that >> maybe there's gaps but I was trying to capture that visually. So apologies if that got a little muddy. >> Our our current facilities are substantial for right now. They're they're functioning. They're safe. But we know with time buildings age, >> systems age, >> they get used. they get used hard. Thankfully, we're able to continue to maintain them. But if you look at some of the gaps that existed like between Echelman Elementary and Mardikville, that was a six-year gap between programs. With a district of our size, if we have 10 buildings, if we wait six years in between buildings, we're out 60 years before we

107get into a renovation cycle. Not many buildings would be able to maintain a 60-year life. So really as we talk about this, it's two to three years that we need to be looking at project after project after project. Some of these and and you're right, Miss Snapsinger, some some of the projects that we're talking about moving post Echelon are necessitated because of the time that was in between previous renovations, but also the fact that those renovations were not exhaustive renovations. I mean, we have Echelman. The old part of Echelman was built in 1952. There's a portion of central matter that was built in 1942. So, we have some areas that would have been uh you know, when we look at these renovations, we need to look at an extensive or a full renovation similar to

108what we did here at the high school. Mr. Burl, >> does it answer your question? >> So again, I I think I said in July I try to tie together the debt roll off, >> right, with the backhanded payments >> and the new debt being added on. And I I think the window that we looked at was a 5-year window with adding or taking on an additional $138 million in debt. This chart feels compressed to me and I'm not sure that it's congruent in my mind how much how fast we'll take on that debt. Mhm. >> Now, I hear it's muddier when we get down to the next elementary that lines in blue, but I leave here a little bit um confused maybe or concerned about was the debt projections that we were looking at

109with Raymond James the last time, were they off by 20 12 to 24 months? Because we really do need to take care of Echelman sooner. And I'm not here to argue that we don't. I'm just trying to clarify in my line because it's this is a different timeline. It's a shorter timeline >> and that's what we'll ask uh folks from Raymond James in January to lay out for us. And again, even those prices there that we've talked about up until this point, they're all broad estimates. Until we fully go through the design development process, do we even know the size of the building? Do we know like what it would be in terms of a of a general cost? >> Well, thank you. >> So, you're just looking for direction. >> Do we keep moving

110forward? Uh, folks, not an official vote, but head nods or straw pole. Is this the direction we we want the administration to move forward? Mr. Beaks. >> Yep. >> Mr. Yes. >> Rob on the Yes. >> Yeah. Yes. >> Yes. Mr. Herd. >> Yeah. I mean, I will say to the people that haven't been at all these meetings that we really considered with Manor Middle just add adding a adding a wing, making a little bigger, >> but then we then we needed elementary space. So, we're going to be building something or other and we sort of rather build a middle school. So, yeah. Yeah. I'm all for it. >> I I just wanted to add I mean I I applaud all your efforts. I mean, this was like you really dug into this and delve

111into it deeply. Um, I guess my question and I agree. I think so we kind of we have what we think we need and we have where we're going to put it. Is it my understanding that uh you know like we don't have to approve this. You just got like a straw poll like are what is next? like are they drawing the plans uh and factoring costs and like what what comes next? >> Yeah, really. So, so what'll what'll happen next is that the architects will begin to meet with our team which would be administrator like principles and then team of teachers from the middle school to talk about facility usage and what does that look like now? But then as we move forward, what does it look like in 10, 20, 30 years out

112as best as we can. And then they and we'll also do some site visits to visit some other middle schools that have been recently built. And then from there then as they develop their plans hearing the input then we'll be sharing that with the board as the schematics as the design the tenative design as we work through. And also I saw the probably the closest one to being started would be like Comet Field Fieldhouse the would they with all that stuff going on that's still going to be probably presented like beginning of the year that's >> we'll be looking at all those different aspects of what do we do with our athletic fields? I mean that's a shorter study. >> Yeah >> because not only are they doing the design but then they're starting with

113land development and all those aspects of it. Um, >> we really felt like when you look at that new middle school on that campus, it doesn't make sense to plop a middle school down and then restrict what you might be able to do fieldwise. And so they really run parallel to say, okay, as we're there, as we know we're going to displace some fields, like what? Let's get a good plan so that we don't back ourselves into some corner like oh if we would only thought about that before this that would have >> I give you for example not critiquing or not criticizing anybody but our gym that we have here if it was three feet wider on each side you'd be able to have three basketball courts run parallel >> what if what if

114what if what if >> so when when I was meeting with the architects and we were designing the new auxiliary gym. I was like, make sure we have the space. >> Yeah. >> So, it's kind of along the same lines of what we' be looking at with the athletic fields in the in our capacity. I mean, >> because at some points we may have to make a decision. Do we continue to use common field in the capacity that it's used or while we're doing the middle school construction, do we and this is just what if >> do we add a athletic uh locker rooms over there and and bring some of those fields that were over here over you know because one of the factors that we're consistently looking at is our athletic trainer and

115you know having activities take place at four different locations by season certain seasons. you know, is there a way that we consolidate that or >> that's a what if that's >> not a this is what we're doing >> with what we're facing, what we have, and everything combined. I can't think of a better way to approach this with the plan proposed is I can't think of a a better way to to accomplish everything. A >> lot more to come. >> And come to facility meetings. They're robust conversations. You're really missing. >> I'm trying. My My boss is really getting on me about missing work. >> No, I wasn't that wasn't pointed at you. Like I just meant for the rest of the board. Come to what you can because it's I I found that the

116team is very responsive to what our input and the questions we asked. >> Mr. Lombardo, she's lying. She does not want anybody there that alone there because I was only there for three minutes and I got thrown out. So >> that's what happens when you're disruptive. But if you would come in politely and quietly in the middle of a meeting, nobody would have noticed. >> There was nothing non-polite about my disruption. >> Anything else for the committee of the whole? If not, I will adjourn the committee of the whole and I'll call to order the Monday, October 6 school board meeting for the Pen Manor School District. Would you please join me in a moment of silence and the flag salute? Thank you. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and

117to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, liberty and justice for all. The next scheduled meeting of the Pen Manor School Board will be held on Monday, November 3rd, 2025 following the committee of the whole meeting. An executive session was held prior to the committee of the whole meeting for the purpose of discussing personnel and student matters is detailed on the committee of the whole agenda. Mrs. Rhodess, may we have a roll call, please? >> Or Mr. Bes >> here. >> Mr. Her >> here. >> Mr. Lombardo >> here. >> Mr. Straw >> here. Mr. Swagert is absent. Mr. Warful >> here. >> Miss Wart >> here. >> Mrs. Napsiger >> here. >> Dr. Fullerton >> here. >> Eight board members present. >> At each of our board meetings, we offer

118our citizens two opportunities to address the board. We have arrived at the first opportunity that will be focused on the board voting agenda. Do we have any citizens comments on the board voting agenda? Seeing none, may I have a motion to approve the minutes from September 15, 2025. >> So move. >> Thank you. A second. Thank you. Any further comment or question? All those in favor. >> Eight affirmative votes. >> Thank you very much, Dr. Gail. Superintendent report. >> Uh thank you, Dr. Forson. I'd like to first start with uh sharing with the board some good news. Uh today our new assistant principal, Alex Dearzio, started at Central Manor. Uh he had been hired back in the summertime, approved in the summertime, but uh his previous employer was was holding him. So this has uh

119today was day one. And I would like to uh specifically uh extend my appreciation to Dr. McFersonson uh for her work during this time when she was there by herself. In addition to missing an assistant principal for some time, they were also missing an a secretary that we have been able to fill as well. So uh Dr. McFersonson was very glad to see Mr. Dearzio as was the staff and students uh today and he arrived with a large amount of food. So, I think he made a lot of friends today. >> Smart guy. >> Yeah, he's he's no dummy, right? Uh and then like we heard from uh Mrs. Griffin tonight with the Langster County Academy, we do have many partners in our district and I do want to extend my appreciation to two that

120provide us with a lot of additional resources for our students. Uh, as many of us know, PMEF, our education foundation, has been busy with fundraising and and different events over the summertime and into the into the fall here. Uh, this week we concluded our acceptance of venture grants from our teachers and we shared with the board with the education foundation's uh venture grant committee 35 uh requests for venture grants from our teachers. So, they have some work cut out for them. In addition, this has been a month for our PTOs to do a lot of fundraising uh in a lot of the schools are doing different activities uh as rewards for the students. And today I was down at Letor and we had six brave teachers take on inflatable costumes and run one lap around

121the parking lot to see who was the fastest inflated costume wearer. Uh, I think if anybody's interested, uh, I did see an email go out to Ashelman where they are having a kiss the pig contest. >> So, if anybody wants to get their name in there, >> uh, I've tried for Dr. Egan, but he said he's unavailable. So, but in all seriousness, our PTO's, they do a great job and a lot of them, if not all of them, have been doing a lot of efforts to uh, do some fundraising that ultimately supports our students and our teachers. So, we thank them. Well, who won the race? >> Uh, Mr. Scherzer did. >> He was the T-Rex. Said this cuz somebody was trying to reach in his back pocket, get his wallet. He was running so

122fast. But >> well, we want to see the video or it didn't happen and then we have to invite him to a board meeting. >> Uh, I think I think I think most of them would be suffice to say never never be seen again in that capacity. >> Although Mrs. Strav was trying to get the superintendent to do something and >> yeah, sounds familiar. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Trying but not successful. >> I've tried as well. Doesn't work. >> Bad hamstring. >> Is that what you're going? Okay. >> Any other questions for Dr. Gail? If not, let's review our agenda. We have item two, A through F. Any comments or questions? And item 3 A through K. Any qu any comment or question? >> My only comment is regarding Mrs. Duke. >> Well, we're

123I'm voting no for all of this. Okay. I'm not allowing her to retire >> at all. I just think we, you know, she's done an excellent job for this district. And so, um, as much as I would love to vote no, I know that she's also due her retirement and I know that she will enjoy it well. So, please pass our appreciation along to her and hopefully we'll see her before she leaves us. >> Thank you. You know, I have no hope that we would see her before she retires because Judy is one of those people who just is happy behind the scenes. >> It's tough when we have our audit presentation. She has to show up and >> I'll make sure that she's there that night and then you can >> recognize her. >>

124Well, that would be absolutely lovely. Uh she cringes at the mention of doing the job that she does because she would just prefer not to have the fanfare. And I say that I would vote no. It's because she's such a valuable employee to the district, but even better human being to our community. So she will she will be missed for sure. But we still have till January 31st. um we will celebrate her as we move forward. So that being said, I'd like to have a motion to approve item 2 A through F. >> So move. >> Thank you. A second. >> Second. >> Thank you. Any further comment or question? >> All those in favor? >> Need affirmative votes. And item three, A through K. May I have a motion? >> So move >> and

125a second. >> Second. >> Thank you. Any further comment or question? >> All those in favor? >> Eight affirmative votes. >> Okay. We have now reached the second opportunity for our citizens to comment. and they could comment on any um any part of district business. Please state your name, Tim, and tell us >> who could I be. Um so my name's Tim Guy. I live in Manor Township. Uh I just want to talk a little bit about the buildings presentation that was done. Um I do think the building to middle school makes a lot of sense. using the existing building as sort of a uh holding ground if you need it for other other things sounds great as well. I do want to uh reiterate something I've talked about before and that I feel like

126we need full day kindergarten in the school district. We're one of the 27 districts in the state that doesn't offer it out of the 500 school districts. Um so it feels like something that's really missing and I think now is the time to think about it because we have these building projects going on. Um just off of the top of my head there's a lot of ways we could implement that. Maybe this new middle school has sixth grade as well and now you've opened up areas in all of your elementary schools. Uh you could use that existing building when you're finished with it as like a five six center that could hold fifth and sixth grade and again open up existing space in your elementary schools. So I know especially looking at the graphics about

127uh the economic needs of the district and that we were 14 out of 16th. The half day kindergarten is a huge huge killer for a lot of our families. I know going around talking to people, it's been the biggest thing people have talked to me about is that not only do they not have full day kindergarten for their kids, which has been shown to improve student outcomes. There's been a ton of studies about it, but just in the economic factor, having to figure out that half-day daycare for their children and the expense that that costs and the fact that we don't do transportation both ways. We only drive kids to if they're in the morning or home if it's in the afternoon. has a huge burden on families to try to figure out the transportation

128piece on top of the uh child care piece. So, I think that that's something that's really going to be effective for our families in general and is something I think will improve our academic outcomes and because we're in this state of building right now, I think it's something we need to pay attention to could really make a huge difference for a district. So, just something to keep in mind and know as you guys are now getting into those architectural plans if that would make sense for our buildings. Thanks. >> Thank you. Any other citizens comments? Anything else for the good of the board? If not, ladies and gentlemen, enjoy the rest of the month of October. We'll see you on November. Happy Halloween and enjoy the water park. Report for you.